Jeremy Renner, Vol. III

Jeremy Renner is a survivor, an inspiration, an amazing actor, a superhero, and now an author! Her returns to the podcast to talk about all of it, his long road of recovery after a horrific accident, lessons learned, and what the future holds for him in Marvel and beyond. UPCOMING EVENTS Alexander Skarsgard in NY 5/12 -- ⁠tickets here⁠ Tony Gilroy in NY 5/14 -- ⁠⁠tickets here⁠⁠ Gary Oldman in LA 6/3 -- ⁠tickets here Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:57Speaker 02

  I got to go to the test the limits of the human body and the human spirit. And someone else doesn't have to do that. That, you know, and then we could talk about it. That also, that exchange also is a beautiful, we gotta do it together. And you don't have to die to do it. We can, right? We can just share this living experience beautifully.

• 1:18Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 1:26Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. I'm Josh. If you can see my background, that's my cute dog Lucy. And that's really all you need to know. Oh, you should probably also know that Jeremy Renner is the guest on today's episode of Happy, Sad, Confused. He is back, third time on the podcast. And this time talking about his new memoir about the aftermath of that crazy incident two plus years ago that nearly made us lose Jeremy Renner. He's back, he's doing great. And this is a really cool conversation. So that's the main event on the pod today. I do want to mention some really cool events, some of which have just been announced. So get in on this. All the information, as always, go to patreon.com/happysadconfused for early access and discount

• 2:12Josh Horowitz?

  codes and merch and all that kind of fun stuff. But get a load of this in terms of live events. The new one, let's lead with the new one that just got announced because this is really special. I'm coming back to LA, LA folks. Mark your calendars, get your tickets now. June 3rd with Gary Oldman. I am so excited to say that. Gary Oldman, kind of my favorite actor of all time, maybe? I don't know, he's certainly top three. He's a legend. I don't need to list the credits, but I'll list the credits. I don't know. From Sid Vicious to Jim Gordon to Sirius Black, to Winston Churchill. This is just off the top of my head. We haven't talked about The Professional or Fifth Element, Slow Horses.

• 2:57Josh Horowitz?

  The man is a chameleon, a consummate professional, a sweet, sweet man and a great interview. I've talked to him a couple of times, but never for a live event in Los Angeles. This is only our second live Los Angeles event. So if you are in that area and have wanted to see me do my thing with a great guest, get in on it, guys. June 3rd, 7pm.

• 3:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's gonna be back at the Fine Arts Theater where we did our event with Tom Hiddleston last year. Tickets are now on sale. The link is in the show notes. Come on out. Say hi to me and Gary. It's gonna be huge. It's gonna be awesome. Okay, can you tell I'm excited? I'm excited.

• 3:38Josh Horowitz?

  Also in New York, as always, I'm doing my thing. Lots of things coming up. On Monday, next Monday night, I'm chatting with Alexander Skarsgård for his new series Murderbot. Always a delight. That'll be great. And then next Wednesday night, we're gonna be chatting all things Star Wars with Tony Gilroy and/or talk about great shows. Doesn't get any better than that. So that'll be right after the finale of Andor as well. So come on out if you're a Star Wars fan, if you're in New York and you want to see me do my thing and hear about Star Wars. This is the time. Uh, I think those are the major things. Okay. So yes, a little more context for Jeremy Renner

• 4:18Josh Horowitz?

  before we get into that. Um, spent kind of a day with Jeremy last week on his, it was actually the day of the release of his book. He was in New York for 36 hours, uh, basically, and came in to do a couple of talk shows, to do the podcast. We did, also did a live event, which was really cool. That wasn't recorded as, as far as I know, but it was, um, at Grammar C, uh, Theater in New York City with a really, um, that was a really emotional one. That was crazy. I mean, this is, look, this is a book about Jeremy dying

• 4:56Josh Horowitz?

  sense. I mean, he says he died. He died on New Year's Day, 2023. This 14,000 pound snowcat just tramples him as he's trying to save his nephew. And, um, as you can imagine, his body was a wreck, an absolute wreck. It's a miracle that he is, he is alive and he is functioning and he is, can kick my ass. Like, it's, it's kind of amazing. Um, and this book is really, you know, it definitely feels, it's certainly emotional and, and sad at times and, but also very honest and inspiring and funny. It retains

• 5:41Josh Horowitz?

  his sense of humor. So, uh, and it's a quick read too, by the way. So, check it out. It's called My Next Breath. Um, and yeah, this conversation will serve as a good, you know, sense of what it's all about. But, um, really interesting read. Anyway, uh, this conversation's great. We talk a lot about the accident, the aftermath, the recovery. Um, but also we do hit upon some fun movie stuff. Of course, talk about his Marvel past, present, and future. His Knives Out appearance, for those that saw my podcast with him a year ago. He was one of those bastards that lied to me, lied to my face. I asked him about... If you don't remember, Glass Onion, there's a joke in there where the Jeremy Renner hot sauce

• 6:26Josh Horowitz?

  figures heavily into the plot. And I mentioned that to him and said, like, you screwed yourself, dude. You can't be in a Knives Out movie, obviously, because it's canon. Jeremy Renner exists. He laughed, had a great response. And then less than two days later, it was announced in all the trades that Jeremy Renner was cast in the new Knives Out movie. So we reckon with that lie, just as I reckoned with Louis Pullman's lies last week. This is what we do around here. Hollywood actors, you are accountable for the lies you tell me. Anyway, yeah, lots of good stuff in this one. Enjoy my conversation with Jeremy Renner. Mr. Jeremy Renner, it's good to see you, buddy.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, good to be seeing you, brother.

• 7:11Josh Horowitz?

  This is kind of an opening day for you, a little bit of a different opening day.

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 7:14Josh Horowitz?

  We're talking about your book. Congratulations.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  I know, how about that?

• 7:17Josh Horowitz?

  My next breath is the book. Yeah, does this compare at all to like, would you rather be talking about Hansel and Gretel 2 than a memoir about the most horrific times in your life?

• 7:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is a wonderful, wonderful sort of new thing, you know, to talk, talk nonfiction to, first of all, have something to write about, you know? It's one thing good about dying. I have something to write about.

• 7:38Josh Horowitz?

  About material.

• 7:39Speaker 02

  I'm interesting all of a sudden.

• 7:40Josh Horowitz?

  You're always interesting. This is particularly interesting. I won't say that.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  Particularly interesting, yeah, yeah. How would you overcome it, right? I think people try to put themselves in, maybe my place, maybe it makes it interesting. Yeah, it's a wonderful milestone, sort of celebration of life and love. And like I was saying earlier to you, it's like, you know, normally it's promoting a movie, you gotta be sort of quiet about things, you don't want to spoil things. It's the opposite. We know the ending already.

• 8:05Josh Horowitz?

  I've read it, I know everything.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  And we know the ending. So you can go through the, it's quite harrowing and dramatic in its own sort of truths. But, but there is light at the end of the tunnel and it's, here it is in front of you, you know, there's something kind of hopeful about it.

• 8:18Josh Horowitz?

  It's gonna be a source of hope for a lot of people. It's really well done. I hear you throughout this.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, good.

• 8:24Josh Horowitz?

  Some memoirs you read and you're like, "How much were they really behind the typewriter or whatever talking?" This feels like, I hear your voice when I'm reading this. So, for good or for bad.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:36Josh Horowitz?

  But talk to me, man. I mean, look, this has obviously been very well documented. That being said, like, reading this, I discovered a lot I didn't know. It's intense, though. It's intense for you, number one, to like, really go into the minutia of what happened. I don't know, did you kind of know what you were getting into? It must have been a momentous decision for you to say, "Yes, I'm gonna double down, I'm gonna really commit to telling the story and think it through."

• 9:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, there was a lot of things that happened, brother, during the recovery. I mean, very early on initially, there was like ideas of like just sort of capturing all of it just on video to make some maybe a documentary. Like, all this stuff was like, talked about.

• 9:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:14Speaker 02

  And ultimately did nothing. And like, you know what, I think I'm just gonna, it requires 100% of my energy, 100% of every minute, every day, to get better. I can't even have any, I can't have an idea of like, it's a weight to do. No, I'm not, you know what I mean? So, but the idea of a book did come up early on of maybe of being kind of a healing sort of cathartic process. And then I just thought, it was too overwhelming. It was that first summer, the first six months after the incident. And I considered doing it, but then I'm like, it's something I've never done before. I'm not an author. It might have been too early on and things and lessons learned so far. I don't know, it was just a little overwhelming for me. But then I kind of, but I did write an album about it.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  I did write, so I did music, music. Then once the book idea came around, sorry.

• 10:06Josh Horowitz?

  You wanna get some water?

• 10:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:10Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 10:15Josh Horowitz?

  Forty-five minutes, I don't want you choking for the next...

• 10:16Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 10:17Josh Horowitz?

  If there's one thing I've learned, it's breathing is important to you.

• 10:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree. Yeah. So, um, yeah, so the book idea was, um, was always an interesting idea, but then, once we found an idea of how we can do it and get... So there was a ghostwriter helped me sort of with the structure of it. Sure. I've never written a book, so he was great at that.

• 10:36Josh Horowitz?

  Because there are a thousand different ways to do this, and what...

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then it was how to focus on it. So just about the accent, and then maybe pontificate how or why I was prepared or not prepared. Yep. And so it came in a series of just sort of chats like we would chat like we're doing today.

• 10:50Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  And the things that will come up, and as I would explain to fresh ears about, you know, the incident or the things learned, and it's all very fresh in my body and my mind, even still is to this day, it doesn't really go away. And so that part was the easier part, I suppose. It's two, three, four hours every day, just sitting and talking, writing on my own, notating the dictaphone sort of thing, and have it translated. That helped a lot, speed up the process.

• 11:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  And then, so it was like six months of doing that, you know? And then I also did a lot of talks to schools and to companies, and just about the kind of experience, and I'm always gathering more data, more information, more knowledge of what's seated in my brain and my soul and my spirit and my cells, you know? Because unless I talk about it, it's just kind of living in it. And otherwise, if I didn't share it, it was just, I was just going to keep getting better, and that's going to live there. So it was really important for me to kind of put it out and be a tangible thing like a book. It's tangible, it exists, even when I die, that still exists.

• 11:54Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  This conversation's dead after I stopped talking, you know? So there was something fascinating about that narrative and exploring writing a book.

• 12:03Josh Horowitz?

  I would also imagine, just in the course of talking about it over and over again, you're almost like recalling things maybe you didn't even remember, you recalled.

• 12:11Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 12:11Josh Horowitz?

  Like, because it is such a traumatic event. I'm actually frankly surprised you remember as much as you do. But I guess, just going through the motions of like talking it through, did things like kind of emerge? Through conversation that you didn't even realize you remembered.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, because you're not talking about it in real time. You know, living through it in real time is one thing, but you didn't have time. Six months, let's say, or whatever, two months or three months or a year. In between it, you can, you're reflecting back on it and sharing it.

• 12:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  In great detail, mind you, I had to go like, I had to, he says.

• 12:42Josh Horowitz?

  Minimize it.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  And it was great, and thanks to the ghostwriter to really kind of engage in a really, you just go. Let me go second by second then.

• 12:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  You really want to get into this, buddy? All right, I'm gonna give you second by second. I'm gonna give you every sound, what it sounds like to have your skull crunched, right? He's like, okay, we're going there. We got the first, he's like, it's 45 minutes on the ice. And I think it took us like two hours to get through the first five minutes.

• 13:07Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  On the ice. I'm like, let's take a break, come back tomorrow. We're both like sobbing, like, why not going through this thing? But in, in, in doing it in reflection and not in real time, like I was saying it in real time. You unearth like, you know, like civilizations of information, right? This data of like, like that's where the idea of Lamaze came in, right? That, he's like, you didn't think there would be a particular interesting topic to bring into my next breath is the book?

• 13:36Josh Horowitz?

  Well, okay, educate the audience, this connects to your mom, to explain this.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Lamaze, Lamaze is a breathing technique to use to mitigate pain in when you're giving birth, when a woman gives birth. My mom took me into, to, to learn Lamaze, but not really to do that, she just needed to look after me. She said, you're not going to soccer practice, put down your cleats, grab a pillow, and we're gonna go to the YMCA. I'm like, God, what are we doing, what's going on? And they, we're laying on the ground with a bunch of other ladies. And, you know, we're doing these breathing techniques, it's like the weirdest thing ever. And, you know, that was kind of odd and boring at the time, until the screen comes down. Then we're watching like this midwife birth at home, this lady's in the bathtub, water's exploding out of this thing.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  And I'm like, wow, it's like horrified, traumatic.

• 14:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  But, you know, knowing that. You know, the 12-year-old mind, the trauma that came from that, quickly realizing, you know, that we were teaching, we were using these breaths, and when I learned what those breaths were for, I always thought it was really special, mom, with her belly and the thing, and learning about, you know, really where babies come from in a really real-time way, and I was the firstborn son of seven kids, so it was a very special moment for me and my mom, and then not knowing what the Ma's breathing really meant to me, not till later on in life, as a young man, it became important, like conscious breath became a very important thing, how powerful conscious breath is, that stemmed from Lama, so unearthing

• 15:11Speaker 02

  that story and sharing what happened under the snowcat became essential, is a foundation for this book, and tying in all, you know, the breadcrumbs that led me to this, that moment under the snowcat.

• 15:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right, because that's the whole thing, it's not just about this moment in time, it just connects to everything, I mean, what, do you remember telling your mom, by the way, at a certain point, like, "By the way, what you taught me..."

• 15:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, for sure, yeah, early on, I was probably 20 years old, or, yeah, when I moved to LA, and I was studying psychology more, I was doing therapy, and using breath work, and doing all this stuff, and it became very important and very essential, and I used, I mean, I made placards that said, "Don't Forget to Breathe," my flip phone said on the screen, said, "Don't Forget to Breathe," that because the conscious breath, for me, as an auditioning, helped me like not get nervous, right, I used it to mitigate all my anxiety and fears that way, and I told mom, like, "This is like so important," and I did lay back, it was kind of the biggest, most important thing that my mom ever gave me, I let her know at a very young age, because I know how special

• 16:24Speaker 02

  that was for her and I, that she didn't do that with any of her kids.

• 16:28Josh Horowitz?

  Crazy.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  Because I'm her favorite.

• 16:30Josh Horowitz?

  So that begs the question, yeah, obviously, obviously, so, this begs the question, so where are you at on fate, where, are you a believer in like, things are meant to be for a reason, mom taught me Lama's out of all the kids, I was the one on that snowcat that day, I had a story to tell people.

• 16:48Speaker 02

  No, I don't know, man, if it's, fate is like, is it predestined, is it predetermined, you know, I don't, I don't think life is predetermined, I think, I think life... Is just a remedial version of our spirit. This is a lot of, it's a very limited, life is very limited in this body. It's on this spinning rock, you know? So I think this is just a Truman Show version of our spirit.

• 17:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  And so, no, I don't think it's predetermined. I just think it's experiential and it's a beautiful learning process.

• 17:37Josh Horowitz?

  If I had a dollar for everybody in my life who's benefited from therapy, I would be a very, very rich man. Therapy has certainly helped me, especially when I was a confused teenager. And thankfully, that's not a shameful thing to say anymore, right? It's okay to seek help and need help and talk about it. We're all doing our best. We're just trying to get by, right, guys? Unfortunately, the reality is that getting help is still harder than it should be. That's why I'm thrilled always to have Rula as a sponsor of Happy Say Confused, because it's very obvious to me that online therapy should be both accessible and affordable for everybody. So let's make it easy for anybody who wants help to get help. That's where Rula comes in. Here's the thing a lot of online therapy platforms don't actually talk about. Most don't take insurance.

• 18:21Josh Horowitz?

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• 19:04Josh Horowitz?

  Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by insurance. Visit rula.com/happy to get started. That's rula, R-U-L-A dot com slash happy. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget. You guys know the best stuff in your closet is the stuff that you actually wear, right? The things that you just keep coming back to, whether you're going to work, you're going out, you're just hanging around. Well, with the holidays coming up, Quince makes it really easy to find great gifts for everyone on your list. This year, I'm doing a lot of my holiday shopping at Quince, and yes, that includes a few things for myself. That's okay, right? One of the things I love about Quince is that you're getting really high-quality stuff without spending a fortune.

• 19:46Josh Horowitz?

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• 20:30Josh Horowitz?

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• 21:05Josh Horowitz?

  I feel like the most Jeremy Renner thing in this book is what you said, your last potential words, as this was all going down. What did you scream as you were trying to say?

• 21:14Speaker 02

  Not today, motherfucker.

• 21:15Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly.

• 21:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Well, I was gonna have my nephew die. I'm not gonna let him get crushed, you know? It's not happening. It's not happening. No way, and I'd do it again, for that reason, you know, it's just, there's no way, no way. Out of my dime, out of my time, not my responsibility, I'm not doing this to him, so.

• 21:34Josh Horowitz?

  This must have deepened and changed so many different relationships in your life.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Everyone, every single one of them.

• 21:40Josh Horowitz?

  So, I mean, we talked last time, when we spoke a year ago, you talked about like Mackie being one of the first people to come by. Obviously, your family's around. In the book, you talk about Paul Rudd.

• 21:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:50Josh Horowitz?

  Rudd literally gets in bed at the hospital?

• 21:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, he came to visit me twice, yeah.

• 21:55Josh Horowitz?

  So, how has that changed, I don't know, how has that deepened different relationships in your, in your life?

• 22:01Speaker 02

  Um, all of them, you know, the, like, again, it's just, it's that, it didn't just happen to me.

• 22:08Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  You know, it's, and what happened to me is beautiful, and the beautiful things happen to everybody else, too. The, the deepening of the love, the deepening of the understanding of their own fertility of, of their life. Everybody has, can have a different perspective. And I don't go into asking everybody how their lives has changed beyond our relationship, but I know it does. I know it does, because if it changes ours, it changes, you, you consider things differently.

• 22:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Um, I, I got to go to the, test the limits of the human body and the human spirit. And someone else doesn't have to do that.

• 22:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:48Speaker 02

  That, you know, and then we could talk about it. That also, that exchange also is a beautiful, we gotta do it together.

• 22:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:54Speaker 02

  And you, you don't have to die to do it, we can, we can just share this living experience beautifully. And, um, the deep, the depth of love that I already had, my family ran deep, and it's just, you know, undeniable.

• 23:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:10Speaker 02

  And, and that bleeds into every other relationship I've had. And, and no matter how much of time I've spent with somebody or not, it's, it's, when you're laying in a hospital bed with somebody. And it's such the greatest form of intimacy you could really kind of have.

• 23:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right, strips away all the bullshit. It's just sort of like you're just like, you can't, you're just there.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a way, all that is, is demonstrative of love.

• 23:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:39Speaker 02

  That's all it is, and that's all that matters, and that's all you take with you. So, all these love moments, right? That's the only thing I'm gonna put myself in, in sort of places too where love can exist as the star of the room, as a star of the conversation, as a star of every action I do. Like, love has to coexist or be the fuel behind it all. Otherwise, what am I doing? You're just not taking it with me. So like, I'm just on borrowed time doing something that, it's not valuable. So, I find such a lightness in the perspective, in sharing the perspective with loved ones, in sharing the love with loved ones. Sharing it with you, you know? You would be a loved one.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  And it's a beautiful, beautiful, pure space to be. And it's, again, forever changed, or simplified. I don't think it's changed. It's always simplified and clarified.

• 24:38Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 24:39Speaker 02

  For me and for others in my life.

• 24:41Josh Horowitz?

  It seems like you were already kind of that guy.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's why, that's why I say it's not changed, it's not changed.

• 24:46Josh Horowitz?

  But it has even just honed it even like, laser focused.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 24:50Josh Horowitz?

  Like, I don't have time, what are we doing here? Like, let's talk about human connection and love and not worry about the, I didn't get a venti when I wanted a grande.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  That's right, that's right.

• 25:02Josh Horowitz?

  Well, that's really annoying, it gets really annoying.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  Exactly, or, you know, when we get to that place, let's take a moment, take a breath maybe, and zoom out a little bit and find out what's really important here, what's the real value. Let's not stress about these sorts of things in life, you know? It's just not worth it.

• 25:16Josh Horowitz?

  And something I always connect with you about is your sense of humor, and we talked about, you know, kind of gallows humor during this whole... Incident, as you call it. Hallucinations you talk about. Why is Jamie Foxx in your dreams? Of all the people, Jamie Foxx pops up.

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, because during my recovery, he got into a situation. And I knew about that. I mean, when you're sitting in a hospital bed, but even though I'm at home, you're kind of, you know, your computer's there all the time. It's just kind of my form of entertainment, my phone. Sorry. And so, yeah, I heard about his incident. So, yeah, and he's a friend of mine, too. So, I just had a lot of dreams about him, sort of in awake dreams as well. We were doing lots of things. We were snowmobbing. Me and Jamie were like, we were having lots of chats. Hot seat cotton, high as a kite type of chats.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  But I think it was just sort of a way to sort of kind of connect. And, you know, it's a lonely, lonely space when you're laying in a bed and recovering. No matter how much love you have around you and support you have around you, and great doctors and just, you know, everything, you know, a lot of support, it's still me that has to get better.

• 26:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 26:28Speaker 02

  And no matter if there's a physical therapist there, that you do this, you know, you still have to do it. You still have to be the force behind it all. And so, it's a lonely space. So, the Jamie Foxx of it all was because he was in, he's like in a hospital bed next to me, even though he wasn't, right? So, I just, I really would, I'd have dreams about him. And I'd have waking dreams and talking to him as he was like in the hospital room with me. And, um, and share, because we're on the same, we're in the same boat.

• 26:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  Right? So, that's where, that's why Jamie Foxx sort of came up into the narrative of my recovery.

• 26:59Josh Horowitz?

  High or not. And talking about kind of being, yes, you're surrounded by love, but also being in your own head. There's a lot of time to think about what life is even going to be. Like, because it's a long recovery and it's, as we've talked before, it's a lifelong recovery. This is not, there's no endpoint to this.

• 27:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:14Josh Horowitz?

  And, and you must have spent a lot of time thinking about like, what is this life physically going to be? What am I going to be capable of? Can I walk? Can I run? Can I hug my daughter?

• 27:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:25Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know, I mean.

• 27:26Speaker 02

  Anytime those questions came up, the answer came very quickly. And most of the time, the answer didn't matter.

• 27:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. It's just the most important to be.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  It doesn't matter. What am I gonna work again as an actor? Doesn't fucking matter. The answer is, it doesn't matter. It doesn't have value. So far in the future, you gotta put a foot down first, and then another foot in front of it. And then again, and then you're walking. So get a foot down first, then think about where you're gonna be walking to. You know what I mean? What direction you're going. So, that's where I was, because everything was busted. So I had to start in a very, very simple, simple space, all the time. No matter, of course I would consider all the things in life. You know, am I gonna, you know, early on, there's different stages of like, am I just gonna be a Petri dish? Like, am I just gonna be like on a, on a machine, and all that sort of stuff? Then it's to, you know, all the things.

• 28:19Speaker 02

  And every time I would get ahead of myself with these questions, it's quickly, it doesn't matter.

• 28:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, slow down.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  I'm here, I'm doing good, right? I keep it simple.

• 28:30Josh Horowitz?

  My brain's working.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, oversimplify life, keep it simple, and keep moving forward, keep, you know, setting goals for myself, setting like milestones, or, and not reach too far, so it keeps my confidence up high. I'm just doing this to myself, whatever I can do. Cause there's setbacks, you're gonna get setbacks, and you need to stay confident, you need to stay positive. No one's gonna be your cheerleader and be like, you're doing great. Like, if I don't feel like I'm doing great, then I don't care what you gotta say. You know what I mean? I have to love myself enough to put myself in a position to get through the hardships and the obstacles ahead of me. And I continue to do that, and I helped by not looking too far ahead, simplifying my life and giving myself, put myself in a place to succeed. And it gets better.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  You can zoom out, right? As I get healthier, and I get stronger, and mentally, physically, spiritually, I can, I can take more things in.

• 29:22Josh Horowitz?

  And know that there will be setbacks, that it's not a straight line.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, and that it is a forever thing, right? And I accepted that, that was a hard pill to swallow, while I'm like, getting through my stages of like, oh, I'm getting up, now I'm sitting up.

• 29:35Josh Horowitz?

  So when does this end, again, guys?

• 29:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, my mom asked that to, to my, my physical therapist, in the next room. And I was on a walker at that point.

• 29:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:45Speaker 02

  I was like, I was on like a treadmill that called the Boost treadmill that kind of lifted a lot of my body weight so I could walk proper without all my body weight. So I could walk faster, you know, that kind of thing. And then I heard them saying, you know, so when do you think he's gonna fully recover? He says like, he'll be doing this for the rest of his life.

• 30:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  And that gut punch to that.

• 30:04Josh Horowitz?

  Had they said that to you then, or that was kind of like?

• 30:06Speaker 02

  No, they didn't say it to me.

• 30:07Josh Horowitz?

  Wow.

• 30:07Speaker 02

  No, they didn't say it to me.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  And I was like, ah. And he's like, you know what, he's right. He's right. But it just won't be in this form. It'll be in a different form. I'll get, I'll recover. I'll be 150%. But I just had, what he meant by that, and I know him because I know so well, is that I'm going to have to attend to these joints and these issues and these tendons and all these sort of things. I'm like, well, yeah, and also 54 now, I'd have to do it anyway.

• 30:32Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I was gonna say, by the way, that's not unique to you. That's called the human experience.

• 30:35Speaker 02

  That's right. You know what I mean? That's just called getting old, man. You gotta stretch. You gotta think like, okay.

• 30:40Josh Horowitz?

  I'm not feeling so good right now.

• 30:42Speaker 02

  And now it's just a primary, you know, primary sort of focus of my life. And then it needs to be.

• 30:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:46Speaker 02

  So again, thankfully, I got run over by that snowcat. Cause now I use as a primary sort of focus of my life is my, my physical health.

• 30:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:55Speaker 02

  And I'll live a happier life because of it. And I really shouldn't because I got crushed and I'm titanium. But I just, I just make it a focus for me. And, and that's also hard too, brother, to, to give focus on me as a father.

• 31:11Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right, right.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  As someone who's a caregiver, who's old to seven in my family, and I look after a lot of people and it's always everyone else sort of first. And cause I don't really need much. So I don't, I mean, I'll do stuff for me, but I don't really need much, man. You know, I brush my teeth and, you know, get some sleep. That's about all, you know, what I need. So.

• 31:30Josh Horowitz?

  It's also interesting that, you know, I have this conversation with actors all, all the time about what they're defined by. Like what's, what's gonna be the first line of their obituary? And you've rewritten what it eventually will be 50 years from now. Because like, you know, there must have been, there was a time where it was like, you know, from Hawkeye, whatever, two time Oscar nominee.

• 31:46Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 31:46Josh Horowitz?

  It's also gonna be now, you know, Survivor inspiration, the guy that survived that insane incident. Incident.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:54Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, where are you at with that? Like, that's, it sounds like that's probably almost a source of pride for you now, that you are as well-known for what you've meant to other people as the acting.

• 32:05Speaker 02

  Well, that's another, you know, great gift, again, that came from it as well. You know, obviously not wanting this to be a private, this is a very private moment that happened in my life.

• 32:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:16Speaker 02

  And it happened on my drive with my nephew. It's a family, it's a private family experience. And it, unbeknownst to me, you know, as I was out for it, it became quite, quite a big news thing.

• 32:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:28Speaker 02

  And it wasn't private about it. And I'm glad it wasn't. If I had the choice in it, you know, if I was on the ice, like, hey, do you want anybody to know about this? I'm like, fuck no. My answer.

• 32:39Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 32:40Speaker 02

  You got some duct tape for this eye?

• 32:43Josh Horowitz?

  Good thing, no one will notice, right?

• 32:45Speaker 02

  But then I'm so glad that it was kind of forced upon me and forced my hand to make this a shared experience. Because in doing so, the public opened the avenue for, we're interested in you as a man and not what you do for a living.

• 33:01Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Or what you're overcoming, the obstacles you're overcoming, those hurdles. And humanized, they humanized me. I was already human. I'm just a kid from Modesto, California. And that's one of the more beautiful things that ever happened. And it's created a great relationship to be famous for something that I am and not that I do.

• 33:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 33:27Speaker 02

  And it's pretty exquisite. And I sleep really well at night having that. I feel much more vulnerable in life. I don't have to have a dual life or feel like I have to or put on a face or, I can just be and I can, I feel accepted or, you know, at least seen and witnessed.

• 33:51Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  In the right way, you know?

• 33:54Josh Horowitz?

  It's also, this is a momentous time. Not only are we at the publishing date for this book.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:59Josh Horowitz?

  Thirty years of screen acting.

• 34:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:01Josh Horowitz?

  Think about that.

• 34:02Speaker 02

  Ah, yeah.

• 34:02Josh Horowitz?

  Thirty years ago, I don't know if this was the official debut, but National Lampoon's,

• 34:06Speaker 02

  yeah.

• 34:07Josh Horowitz?

  What was it, Dazed?

• 34:09Speaker 02

  Senior Trip.

• 34:10Josh Horowitz?

  Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me. Excuse me. I had to do one Jeremy Renner movie I have not studied.

• 34:16Speaker 02

  That was my first time on camera. That was my very first job.

• 34:19Josh Horowitz?

  I looked back at the photo, by the way. You look more like a Dawson's Creek.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:24Josh Horowitz?

  Beautiful, wavy blonde hair.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  That's my James Vanderbig days, you know.

• 34:29Josh Horowitz?

  Were you like up for CW shows? Was that your wave?

• 34:32Speaker 02

  Dude, this is the 90s. We'd look at Matt Damon at that time. We had the same hair.

• 34:36Josh Horowitz?

  True.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  That's right. And we're all doing pretty well, I think.

• 34:42Josh Horowitz?

  Both became born characters. Yeah, there you go. It'll be a little bit of just like on the acting side. So like through this 30 year journey, you know, we've talked about different moments in that career, you know, whether it's Dahmer or Hurtlock or... The one-two punch I always think about is those two Oscar nominations.

• 34:59Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:59Josh Horowitz?

  Two years in a row.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 35:01Josh Horowitz?

  Was it crazy at the time? Like two Oscar ceremonies? I don't know necessarily. You know, by then you kind of know who's gonna win or not. But like, what do you remember about going to the Oscars back to back years and kind of being officially invited to the club?

• 35:13Speaker 02

  Well, that was great. I just remember being pretty exhausting. You're gallivanting around the planet a lot. I mean, it was a full-time job in itself, you know, out there campaigning, going to so many screenings and so many things. You're not sleeping very much. I got great advice from Charlize, who I'd worked with on The North Country.

• 35:35Speaker 02

  And she had great advice and she just sort of like, you know, just kind of enjoy each moment. Don't... Because it's overwhelming. There's lots of pressing at you. There's a lot of attention coming at you. And it's something that stuck with me and I just stayed very, very pure in that moment. You know, the carpets, right? The thing, all the microphones. I'm like, I'm with this person. I'm not worried about anything else. Who is pulling me and talking to me and da-da. I'm gonna talk with you, spend my time with you and just be honest as I can and then move on to the next thing. Nice talking with you.

• 36:06Josh Horowitz?

  We might as well be just talking about your recovery again. This is the same conversation.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  Same kind of thing. Yeah, it's the same kind of thing to remain very, very, very present and so you don't get overwhelmed with it. Because it can be. Like anything, applies to in that, with the book, the same kind of thing, oversimplifying it, keep it simple. And it can get you through some of those times. And it was a glorious time. I got to take my mom as my date both years. And I'm like, how cool is that? Again, I'm her favorite.

• 36:32Josh Horowitz?

  We get it. Okay.

• 36:36Speaker 02

  Oh, my goodness.

• 36:43Speaker 00

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• 37:44Josh Horowitz?

  When you think back of the early days, when you first met with Feige in the Marvel gag, how much of a roadmap did he give you? Like, did you know? You couldn't have known exactly what you were getting into, but like...

• 37:53Speaker 02

  No, really, no. What we had is like, you know, there's Iron Man. I think there were a couple of Iron Man's around at the time.

• 37:58Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:58Speaker 02

  And I was like, I'm a huge fan of that. I was downing what they did. They made it so kind of plausible almost, right? So I'm like, this is great. And then I was a little concerned because what I told him was like, look, I get the Iron Man thing. And how you made that sort of realistically. How are you going to make Fabio with a hammer fly around and make that interesting? I don't get it. The Thor. So they're making that and they're laughing or whatever.

• 38:21Josh Horowitz?

  And they showed you a picture of Hemsworth. They're like, okay, I get it.

• 38:23Speaker 02

  Exactly. And then, but they were showing me sort of the version of the Avengers of Hawkeye that were a little bit more sort of tactile and not the guy with the purple shorts and the purple things and things, right? I'm like, okay, maybe I can grab on to that. It's a more grounded type of superhero with no superpowers. Okay, I kind of like that. So I just kind of went into that, but no idea kind of where it's going. Just sort of, you know, go do the Thor thing. I just made the quick appearance in Thor. And they still couldn't figure out, you know, that I'm left-handed. So they gave me the wrong bow, so I'm having to do it the wrong way. Even in the first Avengers, they still gave me the wrong, like, God, you're not figuring this out yet? You know, I'm left-handed.

• 39:05Josh Horowitz?

  Did you have second thoughts? I mean, I remember way back when, you weren't so thrilled with how they used you, obviously, at First and Avengers.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  Well, the Avengers, well, only because like I'm trying to figure out the character.

• 39:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  And they take the character away, like in the first scene I do. I become like Loki zombie.

• 39:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  You know, and become a bad guy.

• 39:21Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  So like, oh, man, I didn't get to find out anything about my character whatsoever.

• 39:25Josh Horowitz?

  Right, you got there, it took a little time.

• 39:26Speaker 02

  It took a minute, right, so, yeah. No, but, uh, yeah, and then, yeah, it's sort of, it was so, and it's also a long process, you know, making movies, it takes a year to make it, and you know, it's time to come out, and you do another one, it's like, I'm still, by the second Avengers, I'm still trying to figure out, I think I'm still trying to figure out Hawkeye, you know, but you don't get those opportunities in, in, in sort of serial movies like this, right?

• 39:45Josh Horowitz?

  Everyone's fighting for five minutes of character development.

• 39:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, especially on big ensembles as well, so there's not a lot of opportunity to, to grab on to, um, a lot of data in this world, it's a very foreign world to me, too, the, the whole superhero world and comic world, and I always wanted to do it justice and give it truth and, um, make it fun and, uh, that, and that camaraderie and that, and that cast is, is just the greatest thing in it, you know?

• 40:09Josh Horowitz?

  One, one thing I was surprised by relating to the book is like you, you talk, you, the way you put it is that you kind of say to Marvel, I, I'd like to step away, like, that, that you kind of said to them, it's okay to, for me to step away from the Avengers movies, like, was there a point where you sort of said to Feige and company, like, I need to focus on other things? I mean, obviously you did the Hawkeye series, so like,

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 40:29Josh Horowitz?

  You've, you've been active still in recent years.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  Sure, sure.

• 40:32Josh Horowitz?

  But, I don't know, has that been a conversation with Marvel?

• 40:34Speaker 02

  No, I think, I think it's more the willingness to, to step away from things.

• 40:38Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  Because, like, my daughter's a priority, and if, I'm not gonna, it's not even a choice, like, I'm gonna be a father to my daughter, and like, if they're gonna keep shooting in London or da-da-da, I'm like, this is not, it's not gonna work. I had to walk away with, from Tom Cruise, the Mission Impossible.

• 40:51Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 40:51Speaker 02

  You know, sadly, and I love Tom, I love doing those movies, so fun, but I couldn't, I had to really be a dad. They're still shooting Seven and Eight right now. I just talked to Wade, one of the stunt guys, and it took five years. I'm like, I have to be a dad. I can't go do that, right? And God bless him, and I love that. I wish I could do that. I just don't. I love the choice I made. I love being a dad. It's the best role I've ever had and always will have, and nothing compares to it. And when you leave life with that sort of clarity, then I'll take the breadcrumbs of whatever roles I get. And by the way, they're not bad breadcrumbs.

• 41:25Josh Horowitz?

  You're doing alright. We'll get to one in particular in a second, by the way.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm still able to work and still be a dad, and that's... And now that she's a little bit older, I can make better choices, different choices to...

• 41:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  So maybe I could do Hawkeye again and other things, and she gets a little bit more involved.

• 41:41Josh Horowitz?

  Right, right. And she has more autonomy. She's gonna be a teenager before you know it.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, she is. She's 12 now, yeah, so she's really kinda into her friends more than dad.

• 41:49Josh Horowitz?

  I saw your eyes go dead just for a second. I'm sorry.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's alright. She'll be back. She'll be back.

• 41:55Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, let me ask you a couple tough questions you can bat away. There are rumors that there's gonna be another season of Hawkeye, and it might be kind of Raid-style, single-location, Clint's brother. Any truths to these rumors?

• 42:06Speaker 02

  Uh, maybe some of that's true in there. I don't know. There's, uh, we got into it a little bit, sort of story-wise and stuff, and actually just doing another season. And that there was, uh, that everyone's interested in it. I'm like, yeah, yeah, of course, man. I would not want to say no to that.

• 42:25Speaker 02

  I think there's a lot of ideas that they're still gonna figure a lot of things out.

• 42:29Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 42:30Speaker 02

  And I'm always game to do it, man. It's a fun world, and I love being a part of it. And also, really selfishly, it's, to me, it's... I like the currency of doing it because of what it means to the kids in the foundation that I run.

• 42:47Josh Horowitz?

  That's huge.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's the cool factor in keeping that pretty relevant in their minds, you know? Because you can kinda age out. These kids get older, and then new kids come in, and they're like, "Who's this guy? Why does he have a bow and arrow?"

• 43:00Josh Horowitz?

  I'm a Thunderbolts fan. Wait a second.

• 43:02Speaker 02

  Get out of here. Hang on. But they say, like, you know, it's the cool factor of being a really strong voice for these kids and a face for these kids, and give them a sense of pride that, you know, this sort of maybe unreachable type of character is now here at our camp, running the camp with us.

• 43:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, so even, to me, that's what it, how special the... The Marvel Universe is for me is access to, to reach the kids.

• 43:25Josh Horowitz?

  Totally.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  And that's, that's the, the real, real value currency for me.

• 43:29Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I look forward to seeing you in the second season and Secret Wars.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Are you casting?

• 43:38Josh Horowitz?

  I'm authorized by the Russos to make you an offer at the smoke.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  I love it. They're all busy. They think they started production, didn't they?

• 43:44Josh Horowitz?

  They did. They just started.

• 43:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:46Josh Horowitz?

  Don't pretend like you don't know what's going on.

• 43:47Speaker 02

  I just saw this post. I don't know anything. I don't. You know I'm a good liar, but.

• 43:52Josh Horowitz?

  I do know. Okay, let's get to that. Um, so we had a great conversation about a year ago. So great. Um, I was joking with you about your hot sauce cameo.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  That's right. That's right.

• 44:04Josh Horowitz?

  And I said, the one downside, Jeremy, thinking I'm so smart, one downside, obviously, is you can't be in a, in a Knives Out movie because it's canon. Jeremy Renner is in that universe. And you laughed it away. You're like, oh, you're so right.

• 44:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:16Josh Horowitz?

  About 48 hours later, you hit the deadline. Jeremy Renner.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, Glenn Close.

• 44:21Josh Horowitz?

  So, do you want to apologize? What do you want to say for yourself?

• 44:25Speaker 02

  That couldn't break it, you know? It'd break my legs, man. Like, you, someone else had to break the news.

• 44:31Josh Horowitz?

  Is that, is it explained that, like, do you resemble Jeremy Renner in the film? I don't think, Ryan can't just not acknowledge that that Jeremy Renner doesn't exist in this universe and that you're playing a character in this universe.

• 44:41Speaker 02

  I can't say anything. I, yeah, I can't. I don't know how he's using it or not using.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 44:49Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  I don't know. He's, he's, he's such an interesting guy, Ryan. He's such a, he's a, such a great, smart dude.

• 44:56Josh Horowitz?

  So smart.

• 44:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, so smart.

• 44:58Josh Horowitz?

  Way too nice for a smartest age.

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, that too. That too. Yeah, and he's a guy that nothing rumples his feathers.

• 45:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:05Speaker 02

  But I think it's because you know, you know, when you know what you want, it's like, all right, fine. You get the white noise away. It's kind of, it's pretty interesting.

• 45:12Josh Horowitz?

  Without revealing anything, I mean, the ensemble is awesome.

• 45:14Speaker 02

  Ensemble is awesome.

• 45:15Josh Horowitz?

  You know, you got Roland, you got Glenn Close, you got obviously Daniel Craig, Josh O'Connor. Um, what was it like to mix it up with that cast?

• 45:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was, that was the exciting part of being able to do it, right? It wasn't, that's the main reason to, to do that. And obviously work with Ryan and, and what a great blessing, dude. Uh, really excited to, I want to see it. I'm just excited to see it. It's, it's, uh, because I have no idea. It's like, it's like a Marvel movie, really, because I don't know what the heck I did.

• 45:39Josh Horowitz?

  It's a big ensemble, right? Well, you read the full script.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe.

• 45:44Speaker 02

  Did I?

• 45:45Josh Horowitz?

  Did you?

• 45:46Speaker 02

  I don't know. Was there a script?

• 45:50Speaker 02

  Did I say anything? I don't know if I say anything in the movie. We'll see. I think it's a silent film.

• 45:56Josh Horowitz?

  What a jerk.

• 45:59Speaker 02

  There is no script.

• 46:01Josh Horowitz?

  There are scripts to Kingstown, I think. You're in the middle of the new season.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  I don't read those out.

• 46:06Josh Horowitz?

  How's it going? Because when I spoke to you at the end of last season, you talked about that was the first kind of big acting chunk you'd done after the accident.

• 46:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was a tough one. That was a tough road.

• 46:14Josh Horowitz?

  So what was it like this next? You're in the middle of it now, but how's it been physically, emotionally, mentally? Do you have your bearings back as an actor?

• 46:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a lot. Much more mental acuity. You know, all my focus still is on, you know, I'm in Pittsburgh to recover, get better, get stronger. But it was like I had my hemoglobin levels in my blood were two. Like, that's the blood of a dead man. And it sounds like a movie.

• 46:39Josh Horowitz?

  Wake up, dead man.

• 46:40Speaker 02

  There you go. Blood of a dead man. And I was out four.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  This man should be dead. Yeah, so, yeah, it's less fragile this go around this season. And so I feel like I have a lot more personality on set or just in life. It's not just 100% focused on.

• 47:02Josh Horowitz?

  Just getting physicality.

• 47:04Speaker 02

  Feeling terrible or, you know, it takes a lot of mental attention to every joint and, I don't know, it was a lot. But this year is much stronger, much happier.

• 47:15Josh Horowitz?

  I got a challenge for you. I did this recently for the first time with Jack Black, who I can only do this with people that have amazing filmographies that can justify this. I'm going to give you the ultimate Jeremy Renner power rankings of films. You're going to have to choose among your own films.

• 47:28Speaker 02

  Uh oh.

• 47:29Josh Horowitz?

  You can base it on anything you want. The answers can change tomorrow, but for today, for instance, if I pit Hurt Locker or Dahmer, which do you choose?

• 47:38Speaker 02

  Hurt Locker.

• 47:39Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, I'm going to keep going. The Town or Wind River?

• 47:43Speaker 02

  Wind River.

• 47:46Josh Horowitz?

  Avengers Endgame or Ghost Protocol?

• 47:50Josh Horowitz?

  Endgame.

• 47:53Josh Horowitz?

  Bourne Legacy or Arrival?

• 47:55Speaker 02

  Ay yi yi. Ay yi. I'm gonna, I'll go with Arrival just for, as what it means in film and...

• 48:04Josh Horowitz?

  Now, they're pitted against each other. Hurt Walker versus Wind River.

• 48:08Speaker 02

  I'll go Wind River.

• 48:11Josh Horowitz?

  Then we have Endgame or Arrival?

• 48:13Speaker 02

  I'll go Endgame.

• 48:15Josh Horowitz?

  And for all the Marvel's Jeremy, it's gonna be Endgame or Wind River. Who wins the Jeremy River?

• 48:20Speaker 02

  I have, I have to go with Endgame just cuz how culturally significant that is, you know? And it required so many people in so many films to make that, 22 films to make that 23rd film. And, you know, the grossing money and all that sort of stuff, but like the, the outcome of that.

• 48:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  You know, to be able to weep and laugh and, I mean, we all know what that movie is, right? It's insane.

• 48:44Josh Horowitz?

  Once in a lifetime.

• 48:45Speaker 02

  You go watch a movie.

• 48:46Josh Horowitz?

  It doesn't make sense for that movie.

• 48:47Speaker 02

  You can go watch the audience watching the movie and it's captivating.

• 48:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:50Speaker 02

  You know, getting chill and singing about it. It's like, you know, it's like, wow, what a like a, like a movement in a lot of ways. And all over the world.

• 48:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 48:57Speaker 02

  And so, just for that reason, I think it's, it's that. Selfishly would be Wind River.

• 49:01Josh Horowitz?

  I know Wind River, the experience of it, you love.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz working with Taylor on that is very intimate and wonderful shared experience. I love the, the narrative of that and it being a voice for indigenous women and

• 49:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:11Speaker 02

  the crimes against them and, um, I think that that's a character I'm closest to.

• 49:15Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 49:16Speaker 02

  That's like me at my ranch and...

• 49:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yep. Yeah.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  It's very, it's very, very close to who I am. So, for that reason, that's why Wind River's in the running.

• 49:26Josh Horowitz?

  I left out Senior Trip, I'm sorry.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:28Josh Horowitz?

  Should I swap that in?

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that guest star on CSI, you know?

• 49:34Josh Horowitz?

  That's really the most personal role in my, my career. So, where are you at going forward, career-wise, filming-wise, beyond shooting Hawkeye and Secret Wars, obviously? What are you?

• 49:47Josh Horowitz?

  What are you looking for? You're gonna finish Kingstown. Filmmakers on the shortlist. What are your priorities acting wise right now?

• 49:57Speaker 02

  I'm actually excited to work. My daughter's allowing me to work more. She gives me permission to be able to work more. I have to then now ask myself, how much more do I want to work? How much energy? What do I want to do, prioritize? Because of course, if I allow myself to say yes to everything, then I'm not gonna have a life.

• 50:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, you did that once.

• 50:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've done that. Yeah, so I'm careful about what I say yes to. As I always have, but I'm just even for a different reason, just to, because I do want to live my life. I do have a foundation that's a high priority in my life for that I want to keep running and be hands on with.

• 50:37Speaker 02

  So I take it kind of day by day on it. I remain open to it. And the opportunities are more because of I can shoot more places now because my daughter's older. She's busy with her friends at school and all that kind of thing. So I don't feel... We don't have to spend as much time. We can talk on the phone. Like when they're little, they're like, "Daaan!" You know what I mean? But now, we can speak eloquently, we talk. I mean, I'll be watching her volleyball game today. And doing all that kind of stuff. So it's beautiful. So we don't feel like we're missing out on anything with each other. So yeah, I'm excited. Yeah, so Kingstown for sure I'll be doing. I'll probably end up doing another season. This season's gonna turn out really, really great. And so I know they'll want to continue.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  And so I think I'm happy to do another one of those. Happy to see Knives Out come out this year. And that's all I know as far as work. Because in the future, I'm open to some things. But I want to keep it to like maybe one, two jobs in the year. But one job a year, I think is plenty for me.

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Because I want to enjoy my life too, you know? And I want to enjoy my family, I want to enjoy my time. I want to enjoy all my hard work. I want to enjoy my recovery and getting better. Because it does take time and it does take effort. And I want to, again, and also I'll only go to work back with, you know, not just for a job. I don't want the job. I want to go share time with people.

• 52:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  So it is kind of dependent on who I get to share screen with, who I get to share the creative process with. Of course, new people are always like important to me, but like, you know, I just want to enjoy the experience, you know?

• 52:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, well, there's also a nice sense of like, you don't have to prove anything.

• 52:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, like I'm not going back. It'd be 135 degrees and 100-pound bomb suit in the desert. The Hurt Locker 2 is not happening. It's still hurting. That's not happening.

• 52:25Josh Horowitz?

  It is a good title, though.

• 52:26Speaker 02

  It's a good title. Still hurting.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  Right, so I don't think I'm doing that.

• 52:34Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 52:35Speaker 02

  You know, I just, you know, because I did. But it's just an idea and a joke.

• 52:40Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 52:41Speaker 02

  And this Catherine calls, "Hey, I've got an idea. So Will James has gone back for another tour." Oh, my God, no.

• 52:47Josh Horowitz?

  I can't think of anything more unlikely than Catherine Bigelow doing a sequel called Still Hurting.

• 52:53Josh Horowitz?

  She's abandoned all artistic integrity whatsoever.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  YouTube channel version of the...

• 52:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  But working with Catherine again, that'd be great. If we can find, I always want to do, I always want to do a silent film with Catherine.

• 53:04Josh Horowitz?

  She knows, there's a language.

• 53:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, she's like an artist, she's like a painter, you know? But she could just do like cool visuals and I could tell a story without saying anything. And I think it'd be really cool.

• 53:14Josh Horowitz?

  She finally directed another movie, After Detroit. She has one coming out this year.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  Oh, does she?

• 53:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, with Idris. It's like a White House thriller, I think.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  Oh, wow.

• 53:22Josh Horowitz?

  I'm so all in.

• 53:22Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 53:23Josh Horowitz?

  Anything she does.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, awesome.

• 53:25Josh Horowitz?

  Another book in you, or is this one and done?

• 53:27Speaker 02

  Um, I don't know. If anything, it would be a children's book. Something a little lighter, a little lighter fare.

• 53:32Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 53:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:33Josh Horowitz?

  Fair enough. Not the illustrated version of this. We don't need pictures of it.

• 53:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Little Timmy under the snowcat. Don't be Timmy. Tiny, you know.

• 53:42Josh Horowitz?

  This is bad when two people have this kind of sense of humor. One of us is okay.

• 53:45Speaker 02

  And dark humor.

• 53:48Josh Horowitz?

  Congratulations, buddy. I'm so happy for you. I'm happy for all of us that we get this amazing story told this way, as only you can tell it. And thanks, as always, for being so honest and open and spending an important day catching up with an idiot like me.

• 54:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, dude, it's great to share it. And great to share it with you. And I'm glad we get to do a little bit more tonight in depth. And again, it's all shared experiences, right? And that's where the value lies in me and my life is just those things. And glad to share it with you, brother.

• 54:19Josh Horowitz?

  Good to see you, buddy.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 54:20Josh Horowitz?

  We did it.

• 54:23Speaker 03

  Another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 54:42Speaker 00

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