#690: The Random Show, Rare Drinking Edition — Affordable Luxuries, Brain Stimulation, Sampling the Future (and Some Previews), Recharging with Creative Experiments, Tokenizing Humans with a Bonding Curve, Poetry for People Who Hate Poetry, and Much More

Brought to you by LinkedIn Marketing Solutions http://linkedin.com/tfs marketing platform with 900M+ users, Eight Sleep’s Pod Cover https://eightsleep.com/Tim sleeping solution for dynamic cooling and heating, and AG1 https://drinkag1.com/tim all-in-one nutritional supplement. Technologist, serial entrepreneur, world-class investor, self-experimenter, and all-around wild and crazy guy Kevin Rose https://www.kevinrose.com/ (@KevinRose https://twitter.com/kevinrose) rejoins me for another episode of The Random Show! We discuss affordable luxuries, creative offsites, brain stimulation, OCD, ADHD, tokenizing humans via a bonding curve, cold therapy on a budget, phone data strategies for international travelers, Toshiba's low-carb rice cooker, and much, much more! Please enjoy! * This episode is brought to you by AG1 https://drinkag1.com/tim! I get asked all the time, “If you could use only one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 https://drinkag1.com/tim, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG1 https://drinkag1.com/tim further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. Right now, you’ll get a 1-year supply of Vitamin D free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit DrinkAG1.com/Tim https://drinkag1.com/tim to claim this special offer today and receive your 1-year supply of Vitamin D (and 5 free AG1 travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive daily, foundational nutrition supplement that supports whole-body health. * This episode is also brought to you by Eight Sleep http://eightsleep.com/Tim! Eight Sleep’s Pod Cover http://eightsleep.com/Tim is the easiest and fastest way to sleep at the perfect temperature. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking to offer the most advanced (and user-friendly) solution on the market. Simply add the Pod Cover http://eightsleep.com/Tim to your current mattress and start sleeping as cool as 55°F or as hot as 110°F. It also splits your bed in half, so your partner can choose a totally different temperature. Go to EightSleep.com/Tim http://eightsleep.com/Tim and save $250 on the Eight Sleep Pod Cover. Eight Sleep currently ships within the USA, Canada, the UK, select countries in the EU, and Australia. * This episode is also brought to you by LinkedIn Marketing Solutions https://linkedin.com/TFS, the go-to tool for B2B marketers and advertisers https://linkedin.com/TFS who want to drive brand awareness, generate leads, or build long-term relationships that result in real business impact. With a community of more than 900 million professionals, LinkedIn https://linkedin.com/TFS is gigantic, but it can be hyper-specific. You have access to a diverse group of people all searching for things they need to grow professionally. LinkedIn https://linkedin.com/TFS has the marketing tools to help you target your customers with precision, right down to job title, company name, industry, etc. To redeem your free $100 LinkedIn ad credit and launch your first campaign, go to LinkedIn.com/TFS https://linkedin.com/TFS! * [04:41] Drinks? Heck, it's 3:00 p.m. Friday somewhere. [08:36] Affordable (and unaffordable) luxuries. [14:42] Kevin's relaunching his podcast. [17:37] Celebrating creative CØCKPUNCH collaboration. [26:56] Overcoming delegation consternation. [36:23] OCD & ADHD [42:55] Tolkien never said "CØCKPUNCH." [47:55] Inspirational formats and fictions. [53:26] Brain stimulation banter. [55:23] Tokenizing humans via a bonding curve. [1:03:24] Mitigating brain damage over time. [1:11:47] Cold therapy on a budget. [1:17:41] Climbing up the poet tree. [1:26:31] Coyotes and wolves and Twain. [1:30:34] A free idea for Audible: synchronous book clubs? [1:32:02] Supplements. [1:34:35] Brodo kudos. [1:36:44] Aesop. [1:37:12] Caffeine and creatine with a chance of disaster pants. [1:41:15] CØCKPUNCH Coffee. [1:44:49] Three cheers for OneSkin. [1:47:50] One out of one Dr. Peter Attias recommends ProMix. [1:48:51] A low-carb rice cooker? Thanks, Toshiba. [1:52:14] We like our cake like we like our martinis: without carrots. [1:57:31] Phone data strategies for international travelers. [2:01:28] Why Kevin doesn't buy individual bonds (and what he does instead). [2:03:00] What stocks attract Kevin's investment dollars these days? [2:06:57] Parting thoughts. * For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show https://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description. For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show https://tim.blog/podcast, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsors https://tim.blog/podcast-sponsors Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/. For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts https://tim.blog/transcripts. Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books https://tim.blog/books. Follow Tim: Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss https://twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss https://instagram.com/timferriss/ YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss https://www.youtube.com/timferriss Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/ LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferriss http://linkedin.com/in/timferriss Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show http://tim.blog/podcast include Jerry Seinfeld https://tim.blog/2020/12/08/jerry-seinfeld/, Hugh Jackman https://tim.blog/2020/06/26/hugh-jackman/, Dr. Jane Goodall https://tim.blog/2020/04/16/jane-goodall/, LeBron James https://tim.blog/2018/11/27/lebron-james-mike-mancias/, Kevin Hart https://tim.blog/2020/05/20/kevin-hart/, Doris Kearns Goodwin https://tim.blog/2018/09/07/doris-kearns-goodwin-leadership/, Jamie Foxx https://tim.blog/2015/12/06/jamie-foxx/, Matthew McConaughey https://tim.blog/2020/10/19/matthew-mcconaughey/, Esther Perel https://tim.blog/2017/05/21/esther-perel/, Elizabeth Gilbert https://tim.blog/2020/05/08/elizabeth-gilbert/, Terry Crews https://tim.blog/2017/12/20/terry-crews-how-to-have-do-and-be-all-you-want/, Sia https://tim.blog/2020/08/12/sia/, Yuval Noah Harari https://tim.blog/2020/10/27/yuval-noah-harari/, Malcolm Gladwell https://tim.blog/2016/06/21/malcolm-gladwell/, Madeleine Albright https://tim.blog/2020/05/27/secretary-madeleine-albright/, Cheryl Strayed https://tim.blog/2017/03/30/cheryl-strayed/, Jim Collins https://tim.blog/2019/02/18/jim-collins/, Mary Karr, https://tim.blog/2020/11/11/mary-karr/ Maria Popova https://tim.blog/2014/10/21/brain-pickings/, Sam Harris https://tim.blog/2020/05/15/sam-harris-2/, Michael Phelps https://tim.blog/2021/01/21/michael-phelps-grant-hackett/, Bob Iger https://tim.blog/2020/01/16/bob-iger/, Edward Norton https://tim.blog/2019/10/31/edward-norton-motherless-brooklyn/, Arnold Schwarzenegger https://tim.blog/2015/02/02/arnold-schwarzenegger/, Neil Strauss https://tim.blog/2014/06/24/neil-strauss/, Ken Burns https://tim.blog/2019/09/12/ken-burns/, Maria Sharapova https://tim.blog/2017/08/26/maria-sharapova/, Marc Andreessen https://tim.blog/2016/05/29/marc-andreessen/, Neil Gaiman https://tim.blog/2019/03/28/neil-gaiman/, Neil de Grasse Tyson https://tim.blog/2019/10/03/neil-degrasse-tyson/, Jocko Willink https://tim.blog/2016/09/21/jocko-willink-on-discipline-leadership-and-overcoming-doubt/, Daniel Ek https://tim.blog/2020/12/03/daniel-ek/, Kelly Slater https://tim.blog/2020/09/08/kelly-slater/, Dr. Peter Attia https://tim.blog/2019/11/27/peter-attia-fasting-metformin-longevity/, Seth Godin https://tim.blog/2016/02/10/seth-godin/, Howard Marks https://tim.blog/2018/09/25/howard-marks/, Dr. Brené Brown https://tim.blog/2020/02/06/brene-brown-striving-self-acceptance-saving-marriages/, Eric Schmidt https://tim.blog/2019/04/09/eric-schmidt/, Michael Lewis https://tim.blog/2020/05/01/michael-lewis/, Joe Gebbia https://tim.blog/2018/03/08/joe-gebbia-co-founder-of-airbnb/, Michael Pollan https://tim.blog/2018/05/06/michael-pollan-how-to-change-your-mind/, Dr. Jordan Peterson https://tim.blog/2021/03/01/jordan-peterson/, Vince Vaughn https://tim.blog/2017/05/31/vince-vaughn/, Brian Koppelman https://tim.blog/2020/04/23/brian-koppelman/, Ramit Sethi https://tim.blog/2019/05/07/ramit-sethi/, Dax Shepard https://tim.blog/2020/11/18/dax-shepard/, Tony Robbins https://tim.blog/2014/10/15/money-master-the-game/, Jim Dethmer https://tim.blog/2020/05/18/jim-dethmer/, Dan Harris https://tim.blog/2020/11/19/dan-harris/, Ray Dalio https://tim.blog/2017/09/13/ray-dalio/, Naval Ravikant https://tim.blog/2015/08/18/the-evolutionary-angel-naval-ravikant/, Vitalik Buterin https://tim.blog/2021/03/08/vitalik-buterin-naval-ravikant/, Elizabeth Lesser https://tim.blog/2021/03/16/elizabeth-lesser/, Amanda Palmer https://tim.blog/2019/04/18/amanda-palmer-2/, Katie Haun https://tim.blog/2021/02/18/katie-haun/, Sir Richard Branson https://tim.blog/2017/10/09/richard-branson/, Chuck Palahniuk https://tim.blog/2020/09/02/chuck-palahniuk/, Arianna Huffington https://tim.blog/2017/10/18/arianna-huffington/, Reid Hoffman https://tim.blog/2015/08/31/the-oracle-of-silicon-valley-reid-hoffman-plus-michael-mccullough/, Bill Burr https://tim.blog/2017/09/17/bill-burr/, Whitney Cummings https://tim.blog/2015/06/26/whitney-cummings/, Rick Rubin https://tim.blog/2015/05/15/rick-rubin/, Dr. Vivek Murthy https://tim.blog/2020/03/26/vivek-murthy/, Darren Aronofsky https://tim.blog/2017/09/09/darren-aronofsky/, Margaret Atwood https://tim.blog/2022/02/22/margaret-atwood/, Mark Zuckerberg https://tim.blog/2022/03/24/mark-zuckerberg/, Peter Thiel https://tim.blog/2014/09/09/peter-thiel/, Dr. Gabor Maté https://tim.blog/2018/02/20/gabor-mate/, Anne Lamott https://tim.blog/2021/07/09/anne-lamott/, Sarah Silverman https://tim.blog/2022/01/12/sarah-silverman/, Dr. Andrew Huberman https://tim.blog/2021/07/06/andrew-huberman/, and many more. DISCLAIMER FROM TIM FERRISS: I am not an investment adviser. Nor is Kevin Rose. All opinions are mine alone. Or his. There are risks involved in placing any investment in securities or in Bitcoin or in cryptocurrencies or in anything. None of the information presented herein is intended to form the basis of any offer or recommendation or have any regard to the investment objectives, financial situation, or needs of any specific person, and that includes you, my dear listener or reader. Everything in this episode is for informational entertainment purposes only. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Temperature is one of the main causes of poor sleep and heat is my personal nemesis. I've suffered for decades tossing and turning, throwing blankets off, pulling the back on, putting one leg on top and repeating all of that ad nauseam. But now I am falling asleep in record time. Why? Because I'm using a device that was recommended to me by friends called the Pod Cover by Eight Sleep. The Pod Cover fits on any mattress and allows you to adjust the temperature of your sleeping environment, providing the optimal temperature that gets you the best night's sleep. With the Pod Cover's dual-zone temperature control, you and your partner can set your sides of the bed to as cool as 55 degrees or as hot as 110 degrees.

• 0:41Tim Ferriss?

  I think generally in my experience, my partners prefer the high side and I like to sleep very, very cool. So stop fighting, this helps. Based on your biometrics, environment and sleep stages, the Pod Cover makes temperature adjustments throughout the night that limit wake-ups and increase your percentage of deep sleep. In addition to its best-in-class temperature regulation, the Pod Cover sensors also track your health and sleep metrics without the need to use a wearable. So go to eightsleep.com/tim, all spelled out, eightsleep.com/tim and save $250 on the Eight Sleep Pod Cover. That's eightsleep.com/tim. Eight Sleep currently ships within the US, Canada and the UK, select countries in the EU and Australia.

• 1:22Tim Ferriss?

  Again, that's eightsleep.com/tim to save $250 on the Eight Sleep Pod Cover.

• 1:31Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by AG1, the daily foundational nutritional supplement that supports whole-body health. I view AG1 as comprehensive nutritional insurance and that is nothing new. I actually recommended AG1 in my 2010 bestseller, more than a decade ago, The Four Hour Body, and I did not get paid to do so. I simply loved the product and felt like it was the ultimate nutritionally-dense supplement that you could use conveniently while on the run, which is, for me, a lot of the time. I have been using it a very, very long time indeed. And I do get asked a lot what I would take if I could only take one supplement. And the true answer is invariably AG1. It simply covers a ton of bases.

• 2:14Tim Ferriss?

  I usually drink it in the mornings and frequently take their travel packs with me on the road. So what is AG1? What is this stuff? AG1 is a science-driven formulation of vitamins, probiotics, and whole-food sourced nutrients. In a single scoop, AG1 gives you support for the brain, gut, and immune system. Since 2010, they have improved the formula 52 times in pursuit of making the best foundational nutrition supplement possible, using rigorous standards and high-quality ingredients. How many ingredients? 75. And you would be hard-pressed to find a more nutrient-dense formula on the market. It has a multivitamin, multi-mineral, superfood complex, probiotics and prebiotics for gut health, an antioxidant immune support formula, digestive enzymes, and adaptogens to help

• 3:00Tim Ferriss?

  manage stress. Now, I do my best, always, to eat nutrient-dense meals. That is the basic, basic, basic, basic requirement, right? That is why things are called supplements. Of course, that's what I focus on, but it is not always possible. It is not always easy. So, part of my routine is using AG1 daily. If I'm on the road, on the run, it just makes it easy to get a lot of nutrients at once and to sleep easy knowing that I am checking a lot of important boxes. So, each morning, AG1. That's just like brushing my teeth, part of the routine. It's also NSF certified for sport, so professional athletes trust it to be safe. And each pouch of AG1 contains exactly what is on the label, does not contain harmful

• 3:43Tim Ferriss?

  levels of microbes or heavy metals, and is free of 280 banned substances. It's the ultimate nutritional supplement in one easy scoop. So, take ownership of your health and try AG1 today. You will get a free one-year supply of vitamin D and five free AG1 travel packs with your first subscription purchase. So, learn more, check it out. Go to drinkag1.com/tim. That's drinkag1, the number one. Drinkag1.com/tim. Last time, drinkag1.com/tim. Check it out.

• 4:19Tim Ferriss?

  At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half-mile before my hands start to shake.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Can I ask you a personal question?

• 4:26Speaker 02

  No, it is seen in appropriate time.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 4:42Tim Ferriss?

  Kev Kev, nice to see you. Tim Tim. Pleasure. Ladies and gentlemen, as you may have surmised, every opportunity to use surmise, I will take. This is another episode of the Tim Ferriss Show, and it is also another episode of The Random Show with my first ever podcast guest and my perpetual friend. Bestie numero uno, Kevin Rose. Worst show ever, but we did it. You gotta start with a rough draft. You gotta start with a rough draft. You had on this list of questions. You asked me what my favorite cereal was or some shit like that. I was like, Tim, you should not ask your guest that. Yeah, you're like, oh, it's one of those shows. And then I was like, oh, my God, I thought

• 5:24Tim Ferriss?

  this was gonna be a layup with kid gloves, but Kevin's busting my balls in episode one. But it was good. It worked out. We got a little hammed in that one, but it was fun. Got a little hammed. Speaking of ham, what do you have over there? We're having a drink. Yeah, we're having a drink. Cheers. Yeah, cheers to you. Let this be known to the audience and to the world that this was the first time I didn't want to drink and Tim pressured me into drinking or my feet the other way around. Pressure you. All right, just to replay the tape here, I said, do you have a drink? And you're like, no. And I was like, but I have a drink. You're the one who's always busting my balls about having a drink. It's okay, dude. It's Friday. Well, you said it's 3:00 PM, and I said, but it's a Friday. And you're like, you don't really need to say Friday. You can just say drinks. And then you walked off and got a drink.

• 6:07Tim Ferriss?

  So I wouldn't say, I'm not sure if pressure, I mean, unless you. It wasn't really twisting an arm, was it? It was more just like a slight change of wind. It was like a fingertip to the lips kind of pressure. Exactly. Say no more. Say no more. Sleep. Go get a beverage. So we have a lot to talk about. It seems like you got a big list. I have a big list. Yeah. What are you drinking, by the way? We didn't talk about that. Oh, yeah, we didn't have to talk about it. Well, what do you have? I just have some shitty champagne. Okay, yeah. This is, I'm gonna have to pronounce this because I don't speak French, much like you might say, Versailles, Kentucky. There is a Versailles, Kentucky. This is French. I don't speak French, but you got this.

• 6:50Tim Ferriss?

  It's a BANDOL, B A N D O L, Appalachian BANDOL Contrôlé 2021. Then there's Domaine Tampier at the top. And then this.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  Love that Domaine Tampier.

• 7:03Tim Ferriss?

  Domaine, Domaine Tampier. It was recommended to me, actually bought for me by a friend. I'll call him Jay, not to dox him, he's not Jay-Z. But a good friend of mine and it's fantastic. It's really nice. I put some ice in it just to be a heathen and to hearken back to the days of old when I was in Argentina, where they drank a lot of wine with ice and I got into it. And cheers, Kevin.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  Nice cheers. You know, actually I've been doing ice in, in my wine as well. Daria's been giving me shit about it, my wife. And I said, you know what? It's hydrating at the same time, getting a little extra water in there. And, and that was my rationale. That said, I don't know if you looked up the price of that bottle, but you might be doing it a severe disservice by adding cubes to it. I don't know if it's an inexpensive bottle or, because sometimes that can be a big faux pas.

• 7:54Tim Ferriss?

  You know, I'm okay with it.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Watch, it's like a $400 bottle. Putting big cubes of ice.

• 8:00Tim Ferriss?

  My whole life is just a series of faux pas. My, uh, what would that be? Faux pas?

• 8:06Speaker 02

  Faux pas.

• 8:07Tim Ferriss?

  Well, you know, okay, this is very unclear. It says price $25.47 to $672. So it's somewhere in that range. I don't know. It looks like $55. But I do think it may be somewhat challenging to get, but it's not an over the top.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  At the end of the day, if you're enjoying it with some ice, like Godspeed, right?

• 8:30Tim Ferriss?

  You know, yeah, we could go on a whole wine tangent.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Speed.

• 8:34Tim Ferriss?

  Let's speak of Godspeed.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  Can I start with my first thing to talk about?

• 8:37Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, I can't wait to see this segue. Yes, please.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  Okay, so. We got a lot to talk about. One of the things that I would say we are known for at the Random Show is just random shit. And it's just like, okay, we don't see each other for three, four months. What have we stumbled into that's stupid, that's fun, that's creative, that's whatever, fill in the blank. And it's all kinds of stuff. One of the things that you're quite good at, Tim, that I really enjoy as part of the Random Show that we do is you're always talking about, how can I get the most value and satisfaction out of something that is low dollar value? Meaning like, was that how you typically phrase it?

• 9:14Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, like affordable luxuries. Like, how can you?

• 9:16Speaker 02

  Affordable luxuries.

• 9:17Tim Ferriss?

  Something like that, right?

• 9:19Speaker 02

  Right, right. That sounds right. So there is a, the most, I would argue, outside of like, a standard Rolex day date, the most popular watch in the world for watch nerds, I'd say probably recognizable, watch would be the Speedmaster, which is the watch that was worn to the moon. And it's an Omega Speedmaster, the original caliber that went to the moon, I think it was a 321, gets really geeky. The very first Speedmaster that you can buy, like the first very release is, you know, now worth hundreds of thousands of dollars for a representation of a Speedmaster. Modern day Speedmasters from Omega, you can still

• 10:01Speaker 02

  buy them. They are, you know, let's call it, I have to check the price, but let's call it three and a half, $4,000, somewhere around there, maybe a touch more. I haven't looked in a while. That said, they did a collaboration, Omega did, with Swatch. And at first glance, you think like, Swatch, like, there's no way, like, why would I want? But, the actual collaboration looks amazing. Like, it looks just like the Speedmaster.

• 10:27Tim Ferriss?

  It looks identical, minus the band.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Identical, right?

• 10:31Tim Ferriss?

  It's super, super similar.

• 10:33Speaker 02

  It's got the chronograph, it's made out of this ceramic that is super durable. They just crushed it, and they made them in a whole variety of different colors. And they they put a different planet at the bottom of of each one. So this one is Saturn right here, this this brown version. They're impossible to get and you have to buy them in the store. You can get them on eBay, but if you go into the stores, they actually have a limited supply. They they kind of dole out each day.

• 10:58Tim Ferriss?

  What's the price range or the cost?

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Two hundred and fifty or two hundred and ninety dollars, something like that.

• 11:03Tim Ferriss?

  So definitely cheaper than a hundred thousand dollars and cheaper than five thousand dollars.

• 11:07Speaker 02

  And you get the exact look of the Speedmaster.

• 11:10Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 11:10Speaker 02

  And it's it's so it's such a fun watch.

• 11:13Tim Ferriss?

  It's a really iconic. It's a super iconic watch.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. So if you're like, always been Speedmaster curious or want to have one of the most iconic looks in terms of watches. No, I'm serious. Well, that's why I went from Godspeed to to here. You can see the jump.

• 11:28Tim Ferriss?

  I see it.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  It's it's it's just a cool watch and you got to see all the different colors, man. So they call it the the Moon Swatch instead of the Moon Watch. So it's the Moon Swatch from Speedmaster and Swatch collaboration. Yeah, just always trying to find something that is, you know, holidays are not that far off. If you have a watch lover or or someone in your life that you want to do a gift to, great gifts as well. So it's kind of fun.

• 11:53Tim Ferriss?

  And for folks who may not know also, the Swatch Group is the world's largest watch company, employs about thirty six thousand people in fifty countries. They own a whole line of different brands, including Omega.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  Yes, that's why this happened.

• 12:08Tim Ferriss?

  There you yeah, exactly. So there you go. And

• 12:12Speaker 02

  You have to imagine the people at Omega are pissed. I just knowing so much about this industry.

• 12:17Tim Ferriss?

  They might. They might have been like, we decline your suggestion. And then the parent company was like, no, this isn't a suggestion.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 12:22Tim Ferriss?

  This is what we're doing.

• 12:24Speaker 02

  Exactly. Like, this is actually happening.

• 12:27Tim Ferriss?

  And I will say that, and you know this, I don't generally wear any kind of jewelry or watches or anything, very, very little adornment. But I was gifted as a very beautiful, thoughtful gift, a Speedmaster by a friend of mine. And it is a very, it feels good to wear this watch. And also, if you want to It's kind of like guys who have really good mustache or beard game like they think the women are going to be into it and then they just constantly get compliments from guys. That will also happen if you're wearing one of these things.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  Oh, 100%.

• 13:03Tim Ferriss?

  And the fact that you can get that Swatch for those people who are not watching the video, that collaboration, it looks just like the Speedy Pro. I mean, it really does.

• 13:14Speaker 02

  Well, one thing that is worth mentioning there on this watch that for those that want to know, kind of like the two second geeky backstory is that Neil Armstrong not only wore this watch to the moon, but used the chronograph feature to time the propulsion and jet releases to land on the moon. Talk about like he had to use a device. Like there was some computers to do this.

• 13:37Tim Ferriss?

  A mechanical device.

• 13:39Speaker 02

  A mechanical device on his wrist. And so that's why this watch is like legit. It's a real true utilitarian like awesome tool. So it's pretty awesome.

• 13:48Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, you can imagine if there were some wrist bound computer used for like the first human landing on another planet.

• 13:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:59Tim Ferriss?

  And then that was made available in limited supply for civilians to buy what that would hold in terms of meaning.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  Did you hear about the sealed first iPhone went for over a hundred thousand dollars at auction?

• 14:11Tim Ferriss?

  No, I did not hear.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  And that was just a few years ago.

• 14:17Tim Ferriss?

  That's wild. I did not know that. Now, you mentioned one thing, though, I'm curious about. You said you can't find it on eBay. How does a company pull that off?

• 14:25Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, you can find it on eBay.

• 14:26Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, you can.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, that is the place. You have to either go in store, like an actual Swatch store or on eBay. There's only two places.

• 14:34Tim Ferriss?

  I got it. You can get it used, or if you want it new, you have to go to the store.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Right. Like you can't go to swatch.com and buy it directly from the site. They won't ship it to you.

• 14:42Tim Ferriss?

  What else you got?

• 14:44Speaker 02

  I got a lot.

• 14:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah. Bring another one on and then I'll, I'll choose an appropriate transition from, from one of them.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  I'll bring a quickie and then I've got some really hard hitters after that. The quickie is that I'm relaunching my podcast.

• 14:56Tim Ferriss?

  Love quickies. I just want you to keep saying it.

• 14:58Speaker 02

  I love quickies. I'm relaunching my podcast. I'm actually doing it and getting back in the game.

• 15:04Tim Ferriss?

  Which podcast are we talking about?

• 15:06Speaker 02

  So I had the Kevin Rose show from back in the day. I shut it down for maybe it's been about a year and a half, two years ago, and I've missed it. I missed a lot of kind of what I was doing there, but also I want to kind of modify it in a few different ways.

• 15:22Tim Ferriss?

  Now, this is separate from, unless I'm already, I've had a third of a glass of wine. So maybe I'm just hallucinating already, but Foundation?

• 15:30Speaker 02

  The Foundation and Kevin Rose Show kind of merged into one. So it's still one feed because Foundation was all about interviewing entrepreneurs, talking about their entrepreneurial kind of journey, trials, tribulations, things of that nature.

• 15:40Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Speaking about other planets, you did have Elon on at one point.

• 15:44Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:45Tim Ferriss?

  Back in the day.

• 15:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. So that's actually what kind of what I want to get back to where when I think about some of the value that I was able to add to my listeners, it was around and something that I think I've personally been good at is identifying trends early on and talking about them before anyone else.

• 16:02Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, you are, just to underscore that, you are undeniably one of the best in the world I've ever seen of that.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  I appreciate that.

• 16:11Tim Ferriss?

  It's true. I've seen it over and over and over and over and over again. Yeah.

• 16:15Speaker 02

  It's funny.

• 16:16Tim Ferriss?

  Incredible.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  Someone has a clip of me mentioning Ethereum for the first time on your show. Have you seen that?

• 16:22Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 16:22Speaker 02

  And we did a random show.

• 16:23Tim Ferriss?

  It was like 1985. It was way back in my apartment in San Francisco.

• 16:29Speaker 02

  Totally. Yeah. So getting back to that, like just really wanting to highlight and expose people to that early beta, beta, I think of like early software, right? And so the tentative working title is called beta, but it's going to be like showing off things as early as possible that have potentially a lot of upside for the user. So advancements in AI. You know, when I had Elon on the show back in the day, Tesla stock was a dollar 90. I looked up the price of when he actually came on the show.

• 16:58Tim Ferriss?

  Holy shit.

• 16:59Speaker 02

  Which is crazy. So, you know, it's going to be a variety of shows. It's going to cover tech, investing, you know, health. And then I think also important to throw in there is this kind of mental work, life balance that is so important to me these days where yes, investing is great. Yes, making money is great, but it's not going to bring you happiness unless you can figure out the shit in your head. So just making sure that's a component to it as well. So. Anyway, don't have anything to announce, but I would tell people if by the time this show comes out, if you just go to kevinrose.com, you'll see a link to the podcast there.

• 17:29Tim Ferriss?

  Have fun.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  And I'm gonna fire it back up.

• 17:31Tim Ferriss?

  Do you have any teasers for likely or possible guests? Could be names, could be just profiles.

• 17:40Speaker 02

  I'm gonna go, it's a great question. I had sent Elon an email a while ago and he said he had a lot of fun on my first show and was game to do it again. That was a while ago, but I gotta go and hit him back up. I would definitely want to have Elon back on, that's gonna be a good one. But I would say, you know, it's gonna, there's three or four, but nobody is confirmed. I really want to kick it off with a good banger to begin, so TBD.

• 18:05Tim Ferriss?

  TBD. Well, let me tell you about something exciting on my side, which is really just celebration at this point of enthusiasm for me. It's not a launch or anything like that at this point, but you don't know about this. Nobody knows about this really, which is I recently, last week, did a, I guess it was a four-day creative sprint in the middle of nowhere at this rustic retreat with two writers and three concept artists who are some of the best in the world, who have done

• 18:42Tim Ferriss?

  some of the best-known work for D and D, for Magic the Gathering, and we worked on cock punch stuff, believe it or not. We actually spent that entire time coming up with scenarios, characters, adventures, concept sketches, artwork. I don't want to spoil the surprise, we made some significant tweaks to the nature of that realm that I think are very, very, very compelling and got tons and tons of artwork. And it's spectacular. Some of the work is just outrageously, outrageously good. What these guys can do. In a handful of hours, it boggles my mind. It is just beyond my comprehension.

• 19:26Tim Ferriss?

  It's really, as if, from the writing perspective, if someone sat down and like in three hours, they just banged out 3,000 perfect words. I'm like, what? How's that humanly possible? Like, I saw that with these artists. They were so well-oiled, so professional, and also had very different styles, which was super fun. So I could watch them also feeding off one another, even though they were working on different aspects, different greater houses and so on. And for me, part of the celebration is realizing that even though it was my first go-around, my first rodeo, and I didn't quite know what I was doing, of course, it was an experiment and collaboration, because I've been such

• 20:05Tim Ferriss?

  a solo act. I've been such a soloist when it comes to large creative projects. Having an opportunity to work with, say, not just one 3D artist, which I did, Walter, for, say, the initial three-dimensional, 3D Blender character designs, but to work with an entire group and to see if I can actually interact or co-manage that process in some way was very reassuring. I think I can do it. I think, I think that even if I'm not putting pen to paper or stylus to a tablet in some fashion, I think the past that I have and the experience

• 20:46Tim Ferriss?

  that I have with line art and more recently with painting and so on, really helps me to give better feedback to artists and to notice details. And I'm very excited about it.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  So, I mean, there's a few things I want to comment on here. One, it's awesome to see, and it's so apparent to me now, that, you know, you launched this as an NFT project. And NFTs are having a bad time right now.

• 21:13Tim Ferriss?

  Yes, it's definitely one way to put it.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  It's a bloody market out there. All the proceeds went to nonprofit.

• 21:20Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 21:20Speaker 02

  Royalties are dead. So the idea that you're making any further money on this via NFTs is not the case.

• 21:26Tim Ferriss?

  Basically zero. Yep.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  And so you're, you're doing this for the love of the game, which I love to see, which is

• 21:31Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 21:31Speaker 02

  awesome. And the second and more important thing, having known you for a long, long time, is I've never seen you, I've seen you struggle with giving up a little bit of creative control. Right? Like delegation, I'll give you some old Tim Ferriss stories. Every time Tim would write a new book, I'd be like, dude, Tim, let me get, let me get a little early copy. Let me get a little chapter. Let me see what you're working on. What do you, what hacks are you doing? Blah, blah, blah. You wouldn't share that shit with anybody. You're like so secretive. You'd like, how do I encrypt my hard drive? Like you would like try and lock down all your shit. But to see you move into this world of more of creative director is, is awesome. Has that been a challenge for you? Am I, am I articulating that correctly?

• 22:13Tim Ferriss?

  You are. Yeah, you're definitely articulated correctly. I mean, I think as we were talking about before we started recording, like we, we both have some maybe daddy trust issues or whatever that we've needed to work through on a lot of fronts. And it's definitely the case that that's true. I will say that there are a few decisions that were super key in facilitating, sort of lubricating, if you will, the possibility of me being a, acting in a more creative director role. The first was, and it's easy to miss the

• 22:53Tim Ferriss?

  importance of this with the absurdity of the name of the project, Cock Punch, the legend of Cock Punch. People should check out the trailer at the very least on the podcast.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  Episode one.

• 23:04Tim Ferriss?

  It's so good.

• 23:06Tim Ferriss?

  Some amazing voice actors involved and. The key there, by using that name, and this was very deliberate, and by pursuing it the way I pursued it, and also giving the funds to the Saisi Foundation, my foundation, S A I S E I foundation.org, for people who want to see the projects I'm involved with. What that did is it basically made fixating on money kind of silly in the sense that it doesn't go to my pocket, it's going to the foundation, which is important, but it's not going to directly improve the quality of my life in any way.

• 23:43Tim Ferriss?

  Secondly, the fact that it was given such an absurd slash hilarious title allowed me not to take it too seriously, or be too precious or protective of it. And that is what opened the door to this collaboration. My hope is that by testing this with something like cock punch, that I will then be able to translate it to things that I might be inclined to be more protective with. And there have been so many benefits to this, and I'll name a few, or I'll at least lead with one, which is the energy that this has generated has been unbelievable. It's been like a power plant for everything else that I'm doing.

• 24:27Tim Ferriss?

  So it's charging my batteries so effectively that I've been able to engage much more potently with everything else.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  Hmm. And this is creative energy, kind of is from the creativity of it all?

• 24:40Tim Ferriss?

  Creative energy, creative energy. So, so for instance, I mean, the sort of admin, paper cutty stuff that is so easy to succumb to as a sort of death by a thousand paper cuts, like, look, you need to do your taxes. There are things you need to do that you don't really want to do, that deplete, at least in my case, kind of deplete my batteries. And if you don't have something on the other side of the ledger to recharge those batteries, you can end up being really fatigued. You just don't have extra calories to allocate to a lot of things. And this silly project, which has achieved a lot of serious things, right? I mean, like, millions of dollars have gone to the foundation, or at least 2 million bucks,

• 25:23Tim Ferriss?

  and there's more that's gonna go, because I'm going to be, soon I'll be donating all the secondary. Royalty revenue also to the foundation. I mean, it's done a lot of good in terms of supporting early stage science at all sorts of top universities and journalism fellowships at UC Berkeley and so on. But check this out. This will be another connection and that is I literally, and we'll see if I can keep this in or not. I need to talk to the other person.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  It's good.

• 25:53Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. I just signed my first ever writing collaboration agreement to work on my first book in six years with another person. I've never done that before in my life. And like, that's my baby.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  Is this fiction? Is this gonna be?

• 26:09Tim Ferriss?

  This is nonfiction. It'll be sort of old school Tim Ferriss in a sense, because it'll be what I'm probably best at and most known for, but it will be done with someone.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  Adding an hour to the week?

• 26:23Tim Ferriss?

  Inflation, baby. Inflation.

• 26:27Tim Ferriss?

  Hits us all.

• 26:30Tim Ferriss?

  It's not gonna be the five hour work week.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  You know what's funny? You could release that and people will be like, oh shit, you figured out something new and it'd be like a best seller.

• 26:38Tim Ferriss?

  The first through fourth hour are all about work and the fifth hour is all about pleasure. Here we go, folks.

• 26:42Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 26:43Tim Ferriss?

  Epicurean 2.0. So I, I am beyond excited about this because this is now, right? Segueing from cutting my teeth on some collaboration with this thing called Cock Punch. But now I've segwayed to my actual bailiwick right down the middle with hardcore nonfiction, super tactical nonfiction, and I'm going to work with someone else. And I don't think there's any chance I would have been able to do that had I not deliberately created something that I didn't feel too protective or precious about.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:22Tim Ferriss?

  So I'm fucking stoked, man. I'm really excited.

• 27:25Speaker 02

  Let me ask you a question. How do you decide to, as a general tip for the audience out there, how and when do you decide to outsource things to other people that you would consider to be representative of yourself or your brand, or in some way could be potentially damaging? Like, I think about, this has been a hard one for me because anytime an app ships or anytime anything happens that is associated with a company that I have started. If there's something breaks or it's not done the correct way, it's always like, oh, Kevin, why didn't you catch this blah, blah. And I'm like, I get

• 28:02Tim Ferriss?

  Now, that's what other people say to you, or that's what you say to you?

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Both, right? So they somehow think I'm doing everything, right? And so they'll be like, this is impossible that you didn't catch this. And I'm like, I didn't see it before it went out, you know? And so I'm wondering, I'm wondering when you, because your brand is so important to protect, who has final edit on your podcast? Like, how did you trust them with that? Right?

• 28:23Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, totally. This is a great question.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  You'd have to listen to every single podcast you ever did in great detail and

• 28:30Tim Ferriss?

  We've never talked about this. This is fun. I've never talked about this publicly. So I am slow to give up the reins. I'm very slow and I'm slow to trust in general, as you know. And there's some upside to that. There's, there are also a bunch of downsides. But love it or hate it, that is where we are. I'm very hyper vigilant in that way. In the case of the podcast, first step after each podcast is recorded, before I even send my edit notes or anything like that, is the podcast is transcribed. And there are some great tools out there that can interact with transcripts that we have also tested and used in the past, like Descript.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  We use Descript too, yeah.

• 29:09Tim Ferriss?

  Right. Which is really helpful. For people who don't know, it allows you to say, strip out all the ums and ahs and filler words automatically. And you make text edits that then get translated into audio edits. It's very interesting. I also use professional sound editors and so on. But step one for all of that is getting the audio transcribed. So we get the audio transcribed. And at this point, I have something like 700 episodes, close to 700 episodes, which for those who are wondering, is pretty crazy. Next April, I think it's next April, is going to be 10 years of the podcast. Can you fucking believe that's crazy?

• 29:49Speaker 02

  It's insane.

• 29:50Tim Ferriss?

  10 years, 1.4 episodes on average per week for 10 years.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  Damn. Did you have hair when we started?

• 29:55Tim Ferriss?

  I can't even remember. I don't think.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  I probably had a little more hair. My hair probably looked like my beard right now. So it wasn't much.

• 30:03Tim Ferriss?

  I definitely didn't have gray hair.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  I didn't have gray hair.

• 30:06Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I wasn't going to be on any of those poster boards where they show you all the haircuts that are possible at the barber. It's very old school, right? Ooh, I want the flat top. I want that one. I wouldn't have been on any of those, but I probably had a little more hair. I was probably faking it. I was, I think I was probably at the last The 11th hour of my white knuckling, I probably had some cheesy faux hawk because that's all that was left and I was trying to cover up bald spots, something like that. In any case, the point I was going to make is that my current general manager of the podcast, who's really the COO of editorial, has been working for me for seven or eight years. We've been working together a long time. Over that period of time, we've now done

• 30:47Tim Ferriss?

  a few hundred episodes together, minimum. And I started with making edits myself in a Google Doc. And then we would go back and forth. And over time, I got to the point where I would ask him to suggest edits and then I would go through and provide refinements and feedback. And I am at the point now where we probably have 95% overlap, which is good enough. And I therefore feel very comfortable with letting him make the vast majority of any decisions. How long did that take you? Was that like a year process?

• 31:28Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, at least a year because you're really training someone to do two things. One is to understand how you think well enough, my decision-making process, so that they can step into the shoes or into the mind of Tim Ferriss to look at a transcript. The second is to be the best version of their editorial selves for using judgment. And it's the combination that works really well. So I would say it took me probably, in his case, his responsibilities expanded dramatically as we worked together over time. But I would say since he has effectively run the operations side of the podcast, probably

• 32:13Tim Ferriss?

  took a year and a half to two years is what I would say. And I think it can be done much more quickly for people who really focus on it and who don't have the trust issues that I have. If you have a high enough volume of podcasts, which I have directly throttled. I used to do, say, at times, six, seven episodes a month because you have all of these other interview based podcasts that are doing four or five a week. And I felt like that was a trend that I should, not a trend I should follow, but that was certainly in my economic best interest to publish more episodes and people were consuming them.

• 32:55Tim Ferriss?

  But I started to drag my feet and realized it was starting to feel like a J O B in the sense that I really was not looking forward to my conversations after the fourth or fifth or sixth of a month. So I dialed back deliberately so that I would still enjoy what I was doing. What that meant, though, is that you're getting fewer iterations or you're getting fewer at bat practices with the person you're trying to train to be a world-class editor. And I think you could do it if you had decent volume, you could probably do it three months. Especially, for instance, one thing that I could have done, I just didn't think of it and I didn't have really the bandwidth. I'm just juggling a lot and it wasn't my absolute top priority. You don't have to use new audio.

• 33:40Tim Ferriss?

  I could have said, let's take the raw audio from 20 episodes that were published before. Or if you have a friend who's a podcaster, you could have said, give me 20 of your episodes. And then have him run through it and then I would run through it. And boom, before you know it, if the person is reasonably adaptive and perceptive, they'll figure it out. So I would say three to six months, but I'm at a point now where it's at least 95% overlap. And if there's something that's very nuanced that I feel strongly about, I will still make that edit myself. And some of it is really, really, really, really nuanced. Let's just say a guest gives a long answer. In the middle of that answer, they say something that's factually incorrect.

• 34:25Tim Ferriss?

  And for my audience and also for the guests themselves, I want to remove that.

• 34:31Tim Ferriss?

  But if I remove it, perhaps that removes a bunch of important context. So I may need to take something from elsewhere in the conversation and slot it in, or create a hybrid sort of Frankenstein for it to make sense. Or ask them to do a pickup, meaning record additional audio to slot in somewhere. That is at a level of complexity and also like Tim Ferriss's subjective whim that I will often step in to try to make some of those decisions. But my right hand makes a lot of the decisions on his own now, and it's incredible.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 35:05Tim Ferriss?

  So that's been the process. And there is, I will say, to put out a really good finished episode, oftentimes there is a fuck ton of work that happens behind the scenes that if we do our jobs correctly are completely invisible.

• 35:23Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, for me, it's obviously a different can of worms than running a startup and a business. But I think of it kind of through this lens where one hundred percent not even taking shortcuts when it comes to hiring, just hiring absolute A plus players or what you believe to be A plus players from day one. I really, when I was working at Google and you walk in the door and you get to see who you're surrounded and who your peers are, it's very apparent that there's a reason why their hiring process is so long. And so a little bit tedious, but just it's quite the complex, several hurdles that you have to get over before you actually get in the door. And I understand why those hurdles are so high now. Because once you get in, they give you the kind of the keys to the castle

• 36:05Speaker 02

  and say, just go run, make mistakes, learn, and they trust you a lot. And so for me, once we have, you know, I know I have high quality talent to work with. It comes down to if this were to go completely sideways, how big of screw up would it be publicly into our community? And if the answer is a six or above, I probably want to give it a little bit more hands-on attention. And if the answer is like an eight or above, then I want to be heavily involved in that process. If it's a kind of five or below, who cares? Like, let them make the mistake. Because you just don't have time to look at everything.

• 36:45Tim Ferriss?

  Not only that, but you don't want your employees and look, I think you're better at this.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  The micromanaging side.

• 36:49Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right? It's like, you don't want them to feel like you're the teacher looking over their shoulder to like, point out every mistake they make as they're working, which has been hard for me to learn, honestly, because I am such a perfectionist. I don't know if I told you this. Did I tell you that I was diagnosed with moderate severe OCD by a psychiatrist? Did I tell you this?

• 37:09Speaker 02

  No. Holy shit. All makes sense now.

• 37:15Tim Ferriss?

  Well, it's funny is I went through this long thing. And then the psychiatrist was like, okay, I feel like I have a very confident read on our current state of play in the diagnosis. And so he tells me all this. And he says, we're on Zoom. And he's like, I understand this could be a lot to take in. If you need time, we can take a break. If you want to hop off the call, pick up tomorrow. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? I'm not surprised at all.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:42Tim Ferriss?

  I'm like, yeah, okay, fine. Like, what's next? That's fine.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  Dude, it's so funny you say that. I've got an awesome new therapist that I'm really enjoying. And she's amazing. And she's like, I want to refer you to someone because I, what you're describing sounds like ADHD. And I'm like, yeah, no shit. Big surprise, you know?

• 38:02Tim Ferriss?

  Shocker.

• 38:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, shocker. Really happened a week ago.

• 38:08Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I reached out to a couple of my ex-girlfriends who I'm friendly with. And I asked them, I was like, does this like square with your experience? And they're like, yeah, yeah, it's great with my experience. I was like, okay, confirmed. And this was in, just to provide the context, this was in the context of trying to determine neuroanatomical targets for something referred to as accelerated TMS, which I'm hoping to talk quite a bit more about. But I don't feel comfortable yet, making any type of recommendation. But it is a new protocol with a very, I shouldn't say very old, but like 1980s ish. Forward developing technology, transcranial magnetic stimulation.

• 38:51Tim Ferriss?

  So it's brain stimulation for the purposes of minimizing or eliminating the symptoms of certain things like OCD, depression, generalized, or maybe it's just general anxiety disorder. I think it's generalized anxiety disorder, GAD. And I've become very interested in this because there are data related to something that's been called the Saint Protocol. I think that had too many religious overtones, so they abbreviated it to, I think, maybe S and T. It's a Stanford-based brain stimulation lab. There's some incredible scientists involved, including Nolan Williams,

• 39:34Tim Ferriss?

  who's incredibly impressive to me, who have developed this protocol. And the magnitude of effect that I have seen in some of the data, this does not apply to all the people, does not apply to all conditions, but shows a magnitude of effect that makes it equally as interesting to me as psychedelic assisted therapies. It's the only thing I have come across in the last five years that approaches the amplitude of effect size that you see in some of these results. It's bananas, but it's very intense. By accelerated TMS, what that means is you're getting your brain zapped. And it's not technically, whatever. We don't have to get into zapping. It's using magnetism, but you fucking feel it.

• 40:18Tim Ferriss?

  Let me make it very clear. You're getting zapped for, and I could be getting some of the specifics wrong, but I've gone through one cycle of this already. You're getting zapped for something like eight and a half to 10 minutes every hour on the hour for 10 hours a day for five days straight. So you're doing 50 sessions in five days. It's a hell of a thing, but that is why I was undergoing this psychiatric evaluation, was to determine what the diagnosis was such that they could try to determine which coordinates to use, basically, in placement of the stimulation. Super, super, super, super interesting.

• 40:59Tim Ferriss?

  But the reason I brought that up is winding all the way back to kind of where we started. I notice really minute details and that means also every mistake, every like I could, I could scan document. I don't know if you're like this, but like I can look at a document that four lawyers have reviewed and find stuff. And I just have that ability. I don't know what it is. It's definitely not all blessing. There's a lot of curse to that, but I could scan a document reading very quickly and be like, this clause is off, that punctuation is off in minutes. You're like a living chat GPT.

• 41:39Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I'm kind of like, or yeah, or a Rain Man in some respects, but that comes with a huge tax, right? Because it drives other people crazy and you drive yourself crazy. So I'm learning to contend with that, which is a way of emphasizing how big a deal it is for me to collaborate in the way that I'm describing. I will say also that the objective for the creative offsite for me was to try to create a flywheel of collaborative potential, and I'll explain what that means.

• 42:17Tim Ferriss?

  In other words, I wanted to create enough imagery, enough artwork, also enough scaffolding in terms of world building. So the mythologies, the beliefs, the alliances, the conflicts, the geography, such that I could take all of that and give it as a world bible of sorts to a writer who's never had any exposure to the rebel of Varlata, right? The legend of Cock Punch. And they would be equipped to write a short story or a module or an adventure for D and D, a campaign, who knows,

• 42:58Tim Ferriss?

  or a comic book and have it align with my creative vision for that entire fantasy world, which was a cool challenge. I think it requires a little more time. Those types of creative pushes are often two to three weeks. Three weeks seems to be the sweet spot, but that's a huge ask of my time and of everyone's time. And I wanted to make sure that I felt comfortable in a shorter format first. But man, I'm excited because what a lot of people don't realize Is this whole Legend of Cock Punch thing? The only thing I need to do to make this something serious is change the name. I don't need to change anything about the world.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  I've told you that. Yes.

• 43:39Tim Ferriss?

  It's actually really easy. Like if I wanted to switch that gear, which I think would be a terrible handicap right now, because I want to continue to collaborate. And by having the current branding, it alleviates a lot of pressure I might apply to it. There's very little I have to do to flip a switch and make this extremely viable.

• 43:59Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know. Maybe, maybe.

• 44:01Tim Ferriss?

  I think you should.

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Remember when we had this conversation? I called you up and I said, dude, if you do these three things, this shit's going to take off. And one of them was the name change.

• 44:09Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, of course, of course. I know it's a possibility. Right now, it is working so well as a creative hyperdrive. And as a catalyst for just, it's like having my own fusion reactor or something. It's working so well that I'm like, look, don't get too clever. Like you can fuck things up by being too clever. I was like, don't get too clever. Like this is working really well. You lucked into a lot of it. Some of it's by design, but you got really lucky. Like ride the lightning for a while. Don't fuck it up. So I'm going to stick with it for a while. There's no, I don't feel also any time pressure whatsoever.

• 44:50Tim Ferriss?

  Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Marketing Solutions. If you are a business to business marketer, your needs are unique and your solutions should be unique as well. B2B buying cycles are long and your customers face incredibly complex decisions. It's time that you had a marketing platform built specifically for you. LinkedIn Ads empowers marketers with solutions for both you and your customers. LinkedIn Ads allows you to build the right relationships, drive results, and reach your customers exactly where they are already. You'll have direct access to and can build relationships with decision makers of all different types. 900 million members, including 180 million senior level executives and 10 million C-level executives.

• 45:34Tim Ferriss?

  With LinkedIn Ads, you have access to targeting and measurement tools built specifically. For B2B. In the technology sector, LinkedIn generated a 2 to 5x higher return on ad spend than other social media platforms, based on an assessment by analytic partners. On top of that, audiences on LinkedIn have two times the buying power of the average web audience. So make B2B marketing everything it can be and get a $100 credit on your next campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com/TFS to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com/TFS. Terms and conditions apply.

• 46:09Speaker 02

  Can I ask you a question that I hope you'll give me a more kind of vulnerable response to?

• 46:14Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, boy.

• 46:16Speaker 02

  So, no, this is a good one, though, because from an outsider looking in, you say, okay, Tim, you've told us, this is just my observations. You say over and over, Legend of Cock Punch, it's a joke. It's for fun. It's a throwaway. I'm having a good time. Don't want to take it seriously, blah, blah, blah. But, you know, in some sense, let me just think about how to word this. In some sense, if you did take it seriously, now you're a sci, not a sci-fi, but you're a fiction writer.

• 46:44Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, fantasy writer.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  And fantasy writer. And you could go for it. You could decide at some point to go for it and say, I want to try this. But there's also a sense that it could fail. And you're protected right now from failure because of the name. So is that just a safety mechanism to keep you from feeling failure? Do you see what I'm saying? Like, if we're being really vulnerable here?

• 47:09Tim Ferriss?

  I do. Yeah, it's a great question. So here's what I would say. It's actually, in a sense, the opposite for me. So it's not a throwaway. It's definitely not a throwaway. It is something, I think, very profound, at least for me personally, that is in the guise of something ridiculous.

• 47:33Tim Ferriss?

  Which I think more people should try, honestly. It's actually a cheat code. And I would say that instead of using it to avoid the possibility of failure, what it is enabling me to do is fucking swing for the fences in ways that I would never dare otherwise, that could result in just a complete faceplant. So I'm actually risking many, many, many different types of failure that I would be hugely averse to otherwise by couching it in the terms that I've been using. And I am going to do so much more of this in life. Holy shit.

• 48:15Tim Ferriss?

  Like, this has been such an unlock for me that I'm going to do a lot more of it. And I'll mention a few other things just quickly because it ties into this. That's the nature of the Random Show. Let me just pull out a random piece of paper from the hat and we'll go from there. There's a great book. It's actually excellent for storytelling in general, although it is comic specific. It was recommended to me by a very good artist and creative who works in comics named Daniel Henriquez or Enriquez. The DC Comics Guide to Writing Comics, which is such a boring title for a really entertaining

• 49:00Tim Ferriss?

  and useful book. But the DC Comics Guide to Writing Comics by Dennis O'Neill, it has sample scripts. It shows you side by side script plus final output. It goes into story arcs. Not all of it would apply to what I want to do, but it was incredibly, I found it incredibly useful and also hilarious. The writing itself is spectacular. I thought it was spectacular by Dennis O'Neill, so I want to give a hats off to him. And in terms of fiction,

• 49:30Tim Ferriss?

  I would be very insecure if I were to take fiction writing pros only on in say, novel or book form because there are some people who are so, so good at it. For people out there who have not read any say fantasy fiction, we could certainly get into science fiction. I'm a huge fan of science fiction. Ted Chiang, I'll just say that, C H I A N G. The collection's just short stories.

• 49:56Speaker 02

  Oh, that's not like eight short stories or something like that in one book?

• 49:59Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, exactly. So there's.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  Is that the one? That was really good.

• 50:02Tim Ferriss?

  Oh.

• 50:02Speaker 02

  Maybe you, you said that a couple of years ago.

• 50:04Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, there, I mean, he's, he's absurdly, absurdly good. The movie Arrival was based on one of his short stories. I mean, the guy is so, so, so good. So to be able to pack that much information, like that dense of storytelling in such a short, little, it brings you in so quickly. It's unbelievable writing. His ability to like turn your brain inside out with new concepts.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 50:28Tim Ferriss?

  In a short story.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  In like 15 pages.

• 50:30Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. So Ted Chiang for science fiction would be my starting point. And then you can try the longer stuff. But for fantasy, Lord of the Rings is just too much for people to chew on generally. The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss. I think Daria has read that actually, because I recommended it. She, she read The Graveyard Book, which was usually my, The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman is usually my trainer for people who are nonfiction purists, who are like, fiction is dumb. I don't want to read fiction. I'll usually break them in with The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman, usually audiobook, because these people are like, I'm fucking busy. I'm like, okay, fine. Well, listen while you're walking the dog or do the dishes or whatever. The Graveyard

• 51:14Tim Ferriss?

  Book, read by Neil Gaiman. The Ensemble is great, but don't do the Ensemble Cast, read by Neil Gaiman. And then the other one is The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss, which is fucking incredible. And I recommended it to a friend. I hadn't read it in 10 years or something. And my friend, who is a fucking snob when it comes to writing, he has very high standards. He reads excellent books. He ripped through the two books that are part of the series, The King Killer Chronicles, in like four days. These are long books and.

• 51:48Tim Ferriss?

  It completely blew his mind, which got me very excited to read more fiction, but I didn't have a good lead until these concept artists, at least I think one of the concept artists and one of the writers, at least, it was like three out of five or something, said, "You have to read The Blade Itself by Joe Abercrombie." And I'm in the middle of listening to The Blade Itself by Joe Abercrombie, and it is really fun. It is really, really, really good. I've really been enjoying it. So on the creative side, I'm soaking myself in Masters of Fiction, but I don't have the balls yet. Or let me put it a different

• 52:29Tim Ferriss?

  way. It's not a balls issue. It's I don't have the hubris to want to take that on right now. I realize I have a lot of skill development to focus on, and I think that my sweet spot will actually be potentially comics. I really think comics might be my sweet spot. That'd be awesome. Yeah, because I have the visual sensibility. I mean, I do have the sort of directorial visual capacity. I can think about all of that very easily. So I could see really, really enjoying that. And I want to recommend one other thing, which is there's a very short,

• 53:09Tim Ferriss?

  it's not really a TED Talk, but it's on TED. There's a nine-minute monologue. And what's genius about it is that he's such a good actor that he makes it seem impromptu, but you know he rehearsed the shit out of it, right? It takes a lot of practice to make something seem like it's impromptu. And it's Ethan Hawke, the actor. And it is a short TED Talk. It's like nine minutes long, called Give Yourself Permission to Be Creative. And holy shit, it is so good and so powerful. I really, really recommend everybody check it out. It's such an easy lift. Amazing.

• 53:51Tim Ferriss?

  So, speaking of TED Talks, thank you for coming to my TED Talk. Kevin, you're up.

• 53:56Speaker 02

  Yeah. So one thing I wanted to, you know, we talked about that brain stimulation stuff and you know, Adam Gazzoli, our mutual friend at UCSF has been experimenting with that stuff as well.

• 54:05Tim Ferriss?

  For a long time, for a long time. He's one of the, he's one of the pros. Yeah.

• 54:08Speaker 02

  Long time. One thing that I will say, our mutual friend, Matt Walker, who runs the Berkeley Sleep Lab, have you talked to Matt about brain stimulation?

• 54:15Tim Ferriss?

  No, you know, I literally took a note like 10 minutes ago to catch up with Matt Walker because I haven't caught up with him in a while. So yes, I've been thinking about Matt.

• 54:25Speaker 02

  Talk about one of the nicest, nicest humans on earth.

• 54:28Tim Ferriss?

  But I haven't talked to him about brain stim. I have not.

• 54:32Speaker 02

  Matt is, and this is by no means an ad, I'm not involved at all. He's a scientific advisor for a company called Somni, S O M N E E. He sent me one of the devices. I haven't tried it yet, but I have it sitting next to my bed oddly enough, as one does. But you wear it 15 minutes before you go to sleep and it's supposed to just really improve your sleep quality via brain stimulation. So definitely check that out. And I know that obviously he wouldn't sign on to something unless he believed the science was solid. And he was very excited about this. It's a tough hurdle as a startup to get people to feel comfortable stimulating their brain with currency. Like, it's challenging, but it's really promising. And Matt was impressed with the results. So.

• 55:17Tim Ferriss?

  That's amazing.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  If you have trouble with sleep, definitely check it out. And Matt's obviously a legend.

• 55:22Tim Ferriss?

  Story of my life. Good Lord. Yeah. So I will talk to Matt. He's genuinely such a brilliant, but moreover, sweet guy. He's just one of the sweetest guys I've ever met.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  He's nice. Like, I kind of want to like write him into my will and I'll watch my kids as I die.

• 55:39Tim Ferriss?

  Seriously. Like, I mean, I was like, I know I met you a year ago, but can you be the godfather to my unborn children, please?

• 55:47Speaker 02

  I've never met them, but, uh, exactly.

• 55:50Tim Ferriss?

  He's the sweetest guy. Such a sweet guy. All right. So I know you have a bunch of stuff. All right. What else? What else are you holding back here?

• 55:57Speaker 02

  So, you know, speaking of just crazy shit early that I want to tell you about, I think about technology startups in general. We all know 90% of them fail. Some of them are so odd, they're worth mentioning because if they become something larger, you'll want to have heard about it, right? This is one of those. So. There is a site out there. It is called friend.tech. Have you heard of this?

• 56:26Tim Ferriss?

  No.

• 56:28Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 56:28Tim Ferriss?

  I don't think so.

• 56:29Speaker 02

  So you get a signup code. They're posting all over Twitter. Somebody you'll know will have one. And when you go in, what they have realized and what Apple has done is Apple has said, "You must pay us a 20% tax on all transactions," right? And they've also banned cryptocurrency trading from the App Store. Like, they don't allow that to happen. They like to have wallets and they like to buy from Coinbase, but they, as payments, they haven't yet enabled that. So some clever individuals have figured out that back in the day, they have a way with Safari, the little browser built into the iPhone, to install apps on the phone that aren't actually from the App Store.

• 57:10Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, that's wild.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  They're written.

• 57:11Tim Ferriss?

  Okay. I see where this is going.

• 57:14Speaker 02

  Okay. So what they've done is somebody created something called friend.tech. And when you sign in with your Twitter and auth in your Twitter, it creates a profile for you. It gives you a place to post to your followers. You can post out and they can all respond back, but they can't see each other's responses. So it's almost like a private DM that is coming from them to you, but whenever you send something out, it goes to everyone. Okay?

• 57:38Tim Ferriss?

  All right.

• 57:39Speaker 02

  Now, what happens, though, is you get one share of yourself to begin with. And they call them keys now because they realize the SEC might freak out about that. And they're tokenizing humans via a bonding curve.

• 57:55Tim Ferriss?

  What? What does that mean?

• 57:56Speaker 02

  Yes. Think of bonding curves like a slippery slide, like a child's slide. And if you had to place a toy car on the bottom of the slide, if you're early and you're the first one, you're buying in at the ground floor, but as the car starts to go up the slide, which is the predefined curvature of the bonding curve, it becomes more and more pricey. So if I buy Tim Ferriss as user number one, I might pay 10 cents a share for Tim Ferriss. And the next person might pay 15 cents. The next person might pay 20, and then it goes up from there, right? And it's all done in Ethereum, but they do it on a layer two, which is another complex way of saying they kind of take it off-chain, not on the main chain, so that it only costs pennies to do these transactions.

• 58:40Tim Ferriss?

  Got it. So you're dodging Apple and you're dodging the gas fees.

• 58:45Speaker 02

  Right. So think of this like, imagine this is like a new type of OnlyFans, but for everyday content. So if Twitter can have subscriptions, OnlyFans can have fetishes about whatever. I don't even want to name any, because I've seen some weird shit. I've heard about some weird shit.

• 59:02Tim Ferriss?

  Nice save. Nice save.

• 59:05Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thank you. So this allows them to dodge the micro payments. So I signed up. I was like, what the hell? I'm just gonna try this. But here's the crazy thing, Tim. Has people buy and sell you a percentage that goes back to you as the creator, the content creator? So I didn't know that going into this. I'm like, oh, I'm just gonna buy and sell some of my friends. And so I haven't sold anybody.

• 59:27Tim Ferriss?

  Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. You're saying buy and sell some of your friends, or you're selling not shares, because the SEC will freak out, but whatever the hell.

• 59:35Speaker 02

  The comp keys.

• 59:36Tim Ferriss?

  Keys. Keys and yourself. What do people get? What? Okay, so they pay for this thing?

• 59:40Speaker 02

  They get access to your feed. They get access to your feed.

• 59:42Tim Ferriss?

  All right. Okay.

• 59:43Speaker 02

  So if you signed up.

• 59:44Tim Ferriss?

  So it's like an Ethereum-denominated Patreon in a way? Something like that?

• 59:49Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly. But it's based on a bonding curve. So the sooner you get in, the better. And then there's, as you exit down, it falls the same curve down. So as you sell shares, so, you know, Nadia from Pussy Riot, I paid for hers, and she posts some things on her feed.

• 1:00:06Tim Ferriss?

  That's very nice.

• 1:00:07Speaker 02

  Nadia's a beautiful woman. There's no doubt about that.

• 1:00:12Tim Ferriss?

  Kevin just showed his iPhone screen to the video, for those who don't want to check in on the video.

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  If you want to get the video version. Hey, listen, Daria likes her. She told Daria that she has a nice ass. So my wife is.

• 1:00:24Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, wow. Nice.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  I don't even know if I should be bringing this up right now. I've had two glasses of wine.

• 1:00:29Tim Ferriss?

  All right. So. Female politics are so next level. Like dudes are just playing checkers and women are playing 3D chess. It's so much more complicated.

• 1:00:38Speaker 02

  Because she goes, she goes to Daria like, oh, you have really nice ass. And Daria's like, thank you. And then later, Daria's like, oh, she's got a nice ass. I'm like, what do I say? Like, oh, you both have nice asses. Like, what am I supposed to say? There's nothing you can say.

• 1:00:50Tim Ferriss?

  You're like, I like food. I like ass. I would like some scrambled eggs now.

• 1:00:57Speaker 02

  You can say it's gonna go back to your normal program. So, anyway, um, there's, there's, that's, that's, she's one, phone one to follow. But here's the funny thing is people are buying or selling me, right? And I wasn't aware of this. You get a cut of it. So dude, I've got like almost three ETH in just royalties from people buying and selling me on this.

• 1:01:20Tim Ferriss?

  So here's what I'm guessing. So the people who are at the bottom of the slide are marking up and then selling their shares, their keys.

• 1:01:29Speaker 02

  Potentially.

• 1:01:30Tim Ferriss?

  Kevin, so let me ask you this. Are you ending up with the same scumbags that are so common in web three land? Or is it like something you don't have to deal with?

• 1:01:42Speaker 02

  Scumbags, I, I call them friends, but um,

• 1:01:48Speaker 02

  I would say that.

• 1:01:49Tim Ferriss?

  I'm not saying everybody in those communities fits the description of scumbags, but there are a lot of fucking idiots. Like, let's be honest, right?

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think you can block anyone here, but so far everyone has been super nice.

• 1:01:59Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, cool.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  I only have thirty eight holders.

• 1:02:01Tim Ferriss?

  Also, because if it's a DM, they don't get any social reinforcement for being pricks, right?

• 1:02:07Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:02:08Tim Ferriss?

  And that just removes.

• 1:02:10Speaker 02

  But they, they get, yes, exactly.

• 1:02:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:12Speaker 02

  But my point really is, is not so much about whether this is, I think the SEC comes in here at some point, this gets too big and is like, uh, you know, this probably isn't, uh, right. But I, there's something interesting about this idea of owning a portion of, it's like when we were kids and you said, hey, this band's gonna be huge, right? And you listen to a band.

• 1:02:34Tim Ferriss?

  You get rewarded for being early.

• 1:02:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. And you were like, dude, trust me, trust me, they're gonna break out the songs. This is just the beginning. And then, you know, they become the next Pearl Jam or whatever. You're like, I told you, man, I was, I was early. I was a fan since day one, you know? This is a way to say I was a fan since day one and get rewarded for it at the same time. So it's a fascinating social experiment. I don't know where it's gonna go, but I think it's worth people just kicking the tires on it.

• 1:02:59Tim Ferriss?

  And so the way you get rewarded then, if you're buying keys, God, that's awkward. That term is used for so many things.

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:07Tim Ferriss?

  But whatever, keys in someone. So I buy keys in Kevin Rose. The way I get rewarded is number one, access to the feed. Although I don't think your ass shots are gonna be as good as the one that you

• 1:03:17Speaker 02

  No, but I have pictures of you from that I haven't exposed yet.

• 1:03:20Tim Ferriss?

  Alright, perfect. Can't wait. And then, secondly, the way you get rewarded is you can, I guess, sell some or all of your keys if you got in early.

• 1:03:34Speaker 02

  You get one share of your own self. You can buy more shares of your own self if you're bullish on yourself, but I would not recommend going and selling yourself. That just looks odd. For me, I've just gone out and bought a handful of other people that I respect or want to see their content. I haven't sold anybody because I think this is like a house of cards a little bit.

• 1:03:53Tim Ferriss?

  Dude, what happened to your knuckles? The fuck is going on?

• 1:03:56Speaker 02

  I know. I was building a kid's construction set, my kid's house and fucked it up.

• 1:04:02Tim Ferriss?

  Looks like you've been punching cement blocks.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  I know. I do want to take some boxing classes, though. That's been on my list of to-dos.

• 1:04:08Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, you should. Just don't get hit in the head.

• 1:04:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know that.

• 1:04:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, TBI does not help what you want to do. I mean, boxing's great. You all feel like you're about to die after three minutes of working on pads. It is so unbelievably tiring, especially if you have a trainer who moves a lot and can avoid what you're trying to accomplish. Muay Thai also excellent for pad work. I've been thinking about getting back into Muay Thai, but I have to fix my spinal pain first. Muay Thai is probably one of the worst things that I could possibly do right now, given the state of affairs, but boxing's great, man. And you'll have access to a lot of good gyms.

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's gotta be some out here. I'm gonna go try and find a good one.

• 1:04:51Tim Ferriss?

  Ton, ton. You got tons of options. Yeah, just skip the sparring. Skip the sparring. Work on pads.

• 1:04:57Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, you could do light sparring, though, right? With padded headgear? Like, as long as it's not too...

• 1:05:02Tim Ferriss?

  You know, here's, let me explain what happens in light sparring with headgear. So here's what happens with light sparring with headgear. Everyone's cool for like 60 seconds.

• 1:05:12Speaker 02

  Until you're not.

• 1:05:12Tim Ferriss?

  And then someone throws a punch that's a little too hard, and they say, "Oh, sorry, man. Sorry." And the other person's like, "Yeah, it's fine. No problem." Then the other person throws a shot that's a little harder, and then before you know it, you're just fucking giving each other brain damage left and right. And then you both have a headache for three days, and you actually have real jobs, and it's a complete waste of brain cells. So, the way that's sparring, it's not really sparring, but the way that contact can make sense is if you have someone who's really good at holding mitts and pads.

• 1:05:44Tim Ferriss?

  Who will occasionally check you with their own hands, but they have the pads on. So they're not hitting you hard, but they're giving you that feedback.

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  It's just like a little slap in the face.

• 1:05:55Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. So you have, so you have to react and you have to develop some defensive capabilities. That's, yeah, I think that's tolerable. But speaking as someone, oh my God, going through these psychiatric evaluations, the number of questions related to concussions and traumatic brain injury is really beyond anything I would have expected, like the correlation of depression, anxiety, et cetera, to TBI, to traumatic brain injury is undeniable.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, it turns out fucking up your brain is gonna fuck up your brain.

• 1:06:28Tim Ferriss?

  Well, yeah, but it's not immediately clear if you're say a skateboarder when you're a kid, like I skateboarded, you did too. I'm sure you ate shit sometimes and like you whacked the, the living hell out of your head.

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  I was actually talking to Tony Hawk about this because, um, you know, his, his mom, uh, passed from dementia. And, and we were talking about, you know, some of the brain injuries and stuff that he's been through. And he's just like, you know, I, at the time, this was years ago, so I'm kind of paraphrasing. But at the time he was just like, you know, that's what I do.

• 1:06:57Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:57Speaker 02

  It's like, you're kind of too far in at that point, you know?

• 1:07:00Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I was like, and I talked to Rhonda, uh, Patrick and I was like, this is many years ago, we were talking about omega threes to get for Tony and just like stuff that we could potentially do to like, you know, give him some brain health, you know, it's, it's tough. He's, he's, he's seen some damage.

• 1:07:14Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:15Speaker 02

  Have you ever seen his shins?

• 1:07:17Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, they must be terrible. I haven't.

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  They're beat up, dude. It's like.

• 1:07:21Tim Ferriss?

  He's like, he's like a Muay Thai fighter.

• 1:07:23Speaker 02

  I have so much respect for that dude. I mean, talk about somebody that, the last time I saw him was probably six months ago and we went to this donut place that was opening up. And he had a cane with him.

• 1:07:34Tim Ferriss?

  What?

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  And he's just like, yeah, he was like, well, he had just had surgery.

• 1:07:38Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, I see.

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  I'm like, how you doing, man? He's like, ah, you know, this opened me up, put a few more screws in. He's like, I'll be, I'll be skating like, and you know, it's like, the dude just has no fear. Like there's like no, there's, he's just like, ah, they just opened me up, put a few screws in and I'm going to go back at it. Like what the fuck?

• 1:07:55Tim Ferriss?

  Good for, good for him.

• 1:07:56Speaker 02

  You're already the goat. You know what I mean? Like.

• 1:07:58Tim Ferriss?

  Well, it's like Laird Hamilton, same with surfing, right? He's just like, yeah, get patched up, I'm back out there. Broke my leg on a hundred foot wave in like 17 places. Yeah, it's fine. They'll just stitch it back together. I'll be out in two months. It's just insane, dude. I'm not built like that. It's impressive. Side note, and this is not to make a blanket recommendation because I would be really irresponsible, but I saw a presentation, I'm not sure if it's publicly available, on a scientific study that examined psilocybin, so what is considered the active component. I don't know what that is.

• 1:08:42Tim Ferriss?

  Some do, some do, in psilocybe mushrooms, or different types of mushrooms, so magic mushrooms, in Parkinson's patients for the Oh shit. minimizing or reversal of symptoms. And it's very compelling. So I do think that psychedelics, it's unclear exactly what type, to me at least, maybe they are the tryptamine psychedelics, maybe they are, who knows? Maybe it has something to do with the serotonin type 2A receptors. I'm not sure, that's beyond my pay grade. But I will say that for those who are interested, if they can find this research,

• 1:09:25Tim Ferriss?

  which could be very preliminary, who knows? Maybe it's pilot study type of status. But looking at psilocybin as applied to Parkinson's patients, I do think it's, from a neurogenesis perspective, I find it one of the more promising avenues of exploration. I do think, for people with TBI, I do think psychedelic assisted therapies are very interesting. I would say psilocybin probably one of the better researched molecules and worth investigating. Ibogaine also very interesting, but it has cardiac Like, it stops your heart. There are cardiac implications.

• 1:10:10Tim Ferriss?

  The Nolan Williams I mentioned earlier has looked at ways to mitigate some of the cardiac risk. Both of those are very, very, very interesting. Psilocybin, at this point, probably being the more versatile of the two, just from a safety profile perspective. But I'm very optimistic about

• 1:10:31Tim Ferriss?

  For those people who want to look at the edges of scientific inquiry, I'm very optimistic of actually, in a way that I wasn't, say, 10 years ago, in how we might contend with neurocognitive decline, right, or neurodegenerative disease. I'm actually much more optimistic than I was 10 years ago.

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  Have you, did you happen to invest in Paul Stamets' new company?

• 1:10:56Tim Ferriss?

  I did not. I'm not doing a whole lot of investing and I haven't.

• 1:10:59Speaker 02

  We did it through ventures.

• 1:11:01Tim Ferriss?

  You did? Good.

• 1:11:01Speaker 02

  And he, he's got a psilocybin new, new company that they're doing studies and, and hopefully when this stuff gets legalized, we'll, we'll see what happens.

• 1:11:09Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, Paul Stamets knows his stuff, man. You know, Paul Stamets, he's one of a kind. He's a, he's a great human being. In my experience, all my experiences with him, we actually just last week, maybe in the last two weeks, he and I did a challenge grant to raise money for the Amazon conservation team to buy historically indigenous land to return it to certain tribes in Colombia, including the Kogi and a handful of others. They're not in the Amazon. They're at higher altitude in the north and a handful of others. And then ACT equips them with training to be able to sort of monitor and report on their territory. Cause it's not really enough just to secure land rights. And Paul was generous

• 1:11:53Tim Ferriss?

  enough to, along with my foundation, to issue the challenge grant. So we just did that together in the last two weeks. Paul knows his stuff. He really, really knows his stuff. I, I feel very confident in saying that. Smart guy.

• 1:12:08Speaker 02

  He's got some great Ted Talks as well. We're checking out. All right. Should we move on?

• 1:12:16Tim Ferriss?

  Let's move on. So I'll mention something that's sitting outside. I can see it from here, that people might be interested in. So I, I've been and still am a fervent believer in cold therapy, using ice baths as a means of controlling inflammation, as a means of mood elevation that lasts on the

• 1:12:39Speaker 02

  Oh, mood elevation, big time.

• 1:12:40Tim Ferriss?

  Unbelievable. And

• 1:12:44Tim Ferriss?

  Generally, my approach has been to get a chest freezer of some type and fill it with ice, et cetera. And that works, but they get really disgusting really quickly. And

• 1:12:55Speaker 02

  They all do, dude. I bought one of the machines, the real pro ones.

• 1:12:58Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. And then you're stuck with this thing that is an eyesore and you don't know what to do with it.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  You can't move it. I tried to sell it. I couldn't. Yeah.

• 1:13:06Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. So I ended up, because I realized how significant a lever this is for improving my quality of life, just on a daily basis. Like, and I'll backstep for a second and just say one thing that I learned from Tony Robbins, to give him credit, and I don't know if he came up with this, but is this sequence of state, story, strategies. It's like fix your state first. Only then can you come up with an enabling story and only then can you come up with an effective strategy. If you're like feeling shitty and you're sleep deprived and you're kind of depressed or anxious or whatever, you try to come up with a strategy, meaning how to fix something, you're not going to come up with a good strategy,

• 1:13:47Tim Ferriss?

  generally speaking. So it's like fix your physical state first, then you can come up with an enabling story, then come up with an effective strategy. So the state piece is very important. There aren't that many ways I have found to change state. Exercise is one, but it requires generally a fair amount of time. Heat is also effective, but again, requires, say, doesn't sound like a much, but it's like 15 to 30 minutes, let's just say, in a sauna, very effective. Cold is the fastest. It's just the fastest for me. And I've gone without cold therapy because I've not wanted to get some huge chest freezer or a pro model. I am also going to be getting a pro model. But they get all scummy, though,

• 1:14:32Tim Ferriss?

  and then you gotta put chlorine in them.

• 1:14:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is all that. It's a lot.

• 1:14:35Tim Ferriss?

  But I went on Amazon and I found something called the cold pod, which you set up in like five minutes. You fill it with water from a hose, you put ice in, and it works perfectly well as a cold plunge. And I ended up buying a Yeti cooler to store ice in. So I have a few days of ice. And it's, uh, let's see, what would it be? It would be like, If you were standing, maybe it's hip height and it's probably three feet in diameter and you get in, you just kind of crouch in there and it works fucking great. It works really well and it costs like 150 or 200 bucks, maybe, I don't know.

• 1:15:20Tim Ferriss?

  Maybe it's a hundred bucks. It's not crazy.

• 1:15:22Speaker 02

  169.

• 1:15:24Tim Ferriss?

  There you go. And I've been really impressed with this thing. It's very basic and even when it's been very hot outside, like you put it in two bags of ice and you let it sit for 20 minutes, it's going to get pretty cold. It's not going to be 30 degrees, but it's probably going to be mid 50s, depending on how much water you have in there. Pro tip, the more water you have in there, the more ice you're going to need to cool it. So don't fill it all the way up to the top. Fill it up like halfway and then add the ice and it's been a game changer for me.

• 1:15:54Speaker 02

  It's a plastic trash can.

• 1:15:56Tim Ferriss?

  Well, no, it's not a plastic trash can. It is.

• 1:15:59Speaker 02

  Props to whoever made this shit because it probably cost them like 15 bucks to build one of these.

• 1:16:04Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's not a trash can. I just to be clear, I mean, it's look, it's, we're not talking about a fucking Maserati, but here's what's nice about it. It's very easy to set up. It's not a trash can because that makes it sound like it's like mid chest height and hard. It's easy to pack. You can actually travel with it if you want to travel with it. So I would just say for people who have.

• 1:16:26Speaker 02

  Can you travel with it?

• 1:16:27Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, it's super easy, man. You like.

• 1:16:29Speaker 02

  Oh, it folds up?

• 1:16:30Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it folds up. You can stick it in a bag, you can take it with you. It's super easy.

• 1:16:34Speaker 02

  Put it in your hotel room.

• 1:16:36Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, the hotel loves 50 gallons of water spilling out.

• 1:16:42Tim Ferriss?

  So for those people who have perhaps heard about the benefits of cold therapy, but have avoided it because it's too expensive, it's too time consuming, whatever, this is a way to test it. And I would just say this is a low hurdle way to test it out and I used it earlier today. It was fantastic. Changed my day. So that's the cold bud. And there are a bunch of other options that look basically identical. I just went with the one with the best reviews. Nothing fancy.

• 1:17:12Speaker 02

  I need something like this because I don't want to commit to like sterilizing my water. That's always been the problem with these things, right? I just want something I can get into, but how many bags of ice do you really need to pull this off?

• 1:17:25Tim Ferriss?

  I'd have to go look at the bags that are in the Yeti right now. I mean, you need.

• 1:17:30Speaker 02

  Like six?

• 1:17:31Tim Ferriss?

  No. Well, it depends on the size of the bag, right? I would say, I'm guessing, I have no idea if this is accurate.

• 1:17:39Tim Ferriss?

  Two 20 pound bags of ice, probably.

• 1:17:42Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:17:43Tim Ferriss?

  So something like that.

• 1:17:46Tim Ferriss?

  Assuming that it is about half full. If you fill it up to the brim, you are making a mistake because now to lower the temperature, you are going to need a larger volume of ice. But if we're talking about, let's just say it's halfway up. And then you put in two 20 pound bags of ice, you're set. So with a, with a Yeti cooler and this thing, I am good to go. I got a question for you, Kev Kev. Have you ever read poetry? This is hard left.

• 1:18:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:18:16Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. What do, what do you read?

• 1:18:19Speaker 02

  It's more, I shouldn't say it's poetry. I've done.

• 1:18:23Tim Ferriss?

  It's, it's tweets.

• 1:18:26Speaker 02

  No, no, no. I'm going to send you the book that I have found that I started reading recently that was fantastic, but I, I've dabbled.

• 1:18:34Tim Ferriss?

  Horton, Here's a Who?

• 1:18:35Speaker 02

  No, no, no. I've had a couple of books that I picked up, but they're mostly haiku books. Like for me, haiku is kind of my poetry.

• 1:18:43Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, sure. I mean, it's sort of in the zone, right?

• 1:18:47Speaker 02

  It's in the zone. I, I like haiku because it's just like, it really has to hit.

• 1:18:54Speaker 02

  It really has to, it really has to hit though. You know what I mean? Like you got three lines, like you get to pull something pretty amazing. You know, speaking of that, that sci-fi writer, it's like, it really forces you to have something really dense and, and, and, and trigger, make the mind leap, you know, in those three lines, as they say in haiku.

• 1:19:13Tim Ferriss?

  It's a strong, strong constraint. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I was, I was wondering, cause I've been, uh, delving strongly back into poetry and that Ethan Hawke nine minutes.

• 1:19:28Tim Ferriss?

  TED Talk, which is very informal, but don't let it fool you. He prepared for it. The giving yourself permission to be creative. He talks about poetry and he mentions, and I'm gonna butcher this, but he says, you know, no one really cares about poetry, or you wonder why on earth people would read poetry until you have something happen. It could be something tragic, like the death of a parent. It could be something incredibly joyous, like the birth of a child, and you wonder, has anyone ever felt this way before? How am I gonna get through this? Or how should I think about this? And then poetry becomes really relevant, or it can become really relevant.

• 1:20:09Tim Ferriss?

  And I've been delving back into Mary Oliver. I read her collection Devotion, and I recently bought a small collection called Dreamwork, which I haven't finished, so in disclosure, if you read it and you hate it, I'm not gonna take the blame for it. I also have reread now multiple times this collection of newly translated Rumi called Gold by Halal Eliza Gaffori, who is particularly interesting to me because she is poet herself in English, but she's also a native Farsi speaker. So she can go back to the source

• 1:20:49Tim Ferriss?

  material, the original, and translate effectively. And what many people don't realize is that many versions of translated poetry are not actually directly translated. They take some earlier English translation from like the 1920s or something, and then they turn it into better poetry. But now you have a leap from, say, Farsi to English to English, which is like a game of telephone. Things get distorted. Whereas she can go directly. So Gold, this very short collection of Rumi poetry, I've reread a number of times.

• 1:21:29Tim Ferriss?

  And this particular poet, I have not read this yet, but you can see this. It says, "Time is a Mother" by Ocean Vuong, V U O N G, which I assume is Vietnamese. I read his first book, which blew my mind.

• 1:21:51Tim Ferriss?

  I'm not sure why I was drawn to it. I bought it as an impulse purchase at some Barnes and Noble in New York City. And I think it was probably the title. The, the, the title was Night Sky With Exit Wounds, which is a great fucking title. It's so good. And I had this like family.

• 1:22:08Speaker 02

  That's a great fucking title. I love a good title like that.

• 1:22:11Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. And it was like a family photo on the front. And I was like, what the fuck is going on here? So I picked it up and I will warn people in advance, trigger warning for some people. There are some very graphic sex scenes in this poetry book. So there's that, but I was so impressed. I have not read his new collection yet, but Night Sky With Exit Wounds. An apology to the, the author, if I'm butchering your name. I was very impressed. And what I loved about it also is that I'm generally reading the words of dead poets.

• 1:22:53Speaker 02

  Generally, oh my God, dude.

• 1:22:55Tim Ferriss?

  You know what I mean? Like, like I'm always reading the words of dead poets. And this is a contemporary. I would guess that this author is younger than I am. And it's still put me into the cosmic philosophical washing machine and fucked me up. And I was like, okay. All right. Nice.

• 1:23:13Speaker 02

  Can I give you a couple of recommendations then, if you're into this?

• 1:23:16Tim Ferriss?

  Yes.

• 1:23:16Speaker 02

  There's a book called Japanese Death Poems. Fantastic.

• 1:23:20Tim Ferriss?

  I was gifted that by a friend of mine who used to be Marine Force Recon and it's fucking amazing. Yeah. How did you find that book?

• 1:23:29Speaker 02

  There's haiku in there as well. Like it's, it's like, it was part of like my whole discovery of haiku.

• 1:23:34Tim Ferriss?

  No, I know. But how did you discover that? I'm curious. Before you get to the next one, how did you find it?

• 1:23:38Speaker 02

  I'll tell you how. I, I read a book called Three Simple Lines, which Henry Shookman, Zen Master that you've had on the podcast, recommended to me. And he's at this, Natalie Goldberg is the author. She was the author of this book called Down The Bones. I think it's called.

• 1:23:54Tim Ferriss?

  Down The Bones. Writing Down The Bones. Yeah, that is a great book. Great book.

• 1:24:00Speaker 02

  She has a book called Three Simple Lines, which is about haiku.

• 1:24:05Tim Ferriss?

  Huh.

• 1:24:05Speaker 02

  And it's fantastic.

• 1:24:07Tim Ferriss?

  Okay.

• 1:24:07Speaker 02

  It's a really good book. That got me into haiku. That got me excited about a bunch of other of the greats, like Basho and Busan, like some of the best Japanese haiku writers.

• 1:24:18Tim Ferriss?

  The OGs. OG Crew.

• 1:24:22Speaker 02

  So I bought a book called The Sound of Water and then that led me to Japanese death poems. And then there was one other one that I wanted to tell you about that is really awesome, which is Chiyot. I'm gonna mess up the Japanese pronunciation. It's a Chiyoni. Are you familiar with C H I Y O? Chiyoni and I. Is that how you would say that?

• 1:24:42Tim Ferriss?

  No, I don't know. I'd have to look it up. What is that?

• 1:24:45Speaker 02

  Okay, so, so she is a Japanese woman haiku master. And so if you go and look up, basically, haiku masters back in the day, probably would come to no surprise, were all men. And so she is one of the very few that like was taken in and like broke out and became a Japanese haiku master. And so it's just a really kind of awesome story. And you get some haiku from a female back in those days, which is, you know, a long time ago.

• 1:25:20Tim Ferriss?

  Super rare, super rare.

• 1:25:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, super rare.

• 1:25:23Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I am, I'm reading. Okay, so I think it's Fukuda Chiyoni. That's her name. Fukuda, Fukuda, which means, I guess, like, fortuitous rice paddy. Fukuda Chiyoni.

• 1:25:37Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 1:25:38Tim Ferriss?

  Thousand era. Ooh, my Kanji are failing me right now. Ni, I'm blanking on, was a Japanese poet of the Edo period and a Buddhist nun. She is widely regarded as one of the greatest poets of haiku. And then Hokku, I don't know what that is. Some of Chiyos best works include The Morning Glory, Putting Up My Hair, and Again, The Women.

• 1:25:57Speaker 02

  Fascinating. Okay.

• 1:25:59Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I've not had any exposure to her.

• 1:26:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely worth picking up. I think-

• 1:26:03Tim Ferriss?

  Holy shit. She began writing haiku at seven. By age seventeen, had become very popular all over Japan. That's nuts. Considering that she was born in seventeen oh three.

• 1:26:17Speaker 02

  So-

• 1:26:18Tim Ferriss?

  Right. To be born in seventeen oh three and by seventeen as a woman in Japan-

• 1:26:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:26:24Tim Ferriss?

  To be famous all over Japan, that's bananas.

• 1:26:28Speaker 02

  Right. And I had seen some of her work in these other books and it was just mind blowing. And I'm like, who is this woman? And then I did similar to what you did probably a year ago when I read the Wikipedia entry or whatever. And I was like, holy shit, she was a badass.

• 1:26:43Tim Ferriss?

  All right, I'll check it out. So is the name of the book then Shiony? Is that it?

• 1:26:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's Shiony, Woman Haiku Master. That's one, the one I purchased. There could be others about her, but that was the one that I had purchased, which was just, is probably just a compilation of her, her works.

• 1:26:59Tim Ferriss?

  Cool. So other books I'll throw out there for people interested. I recently listened to, I've been doing a lot of audiobooks recently, Coyote America, and I think the subtitle is A Natural and Supernatural History, which I believe is by Dan Flores. Yes. Coyote America, A Natural and Supernatural History. And it's got 4.6 on Amazon with more than 1,500 reviews. And it's a biological, natural evolutionary history of the coyote,

• 1:27:38Tim Ferriss?

  but also a supernatural, AKA mythological history of coyote and the significance coyote in, in different indigenous traditions. And it goes through the entire span of history, also drawing, most interestingly, I think, parallels between the evolution and adaptation of Homo sapiens and the evolution and adaptation of coyotes. It's uncanny.

• 1:28:05Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna lie to you, this sounds horrible.

• 1:28:07Tim Ferriss?

  Sounds horrible.

• 1:28:08Speaker 02

  Okay, sorry. You love coyotes.

• 1:28:11Tim Ferriss?

  So judgy.

• 1:28:12Speaker 02

  You love wolves.

• 1:28:14Tim Ferriss?

  Coyotes would be first, probably. Wolves would be second.

• 1:28:18Speaker 02

  What's the one that licked you in the mouth?

• 1:28:20Tim Ferriss?

  Those were wolves when I spent time with the Arctic wolves. I mean, gray wolves, but from Canada.

• 1:28:26Speaker 02

  That's crazy. They'd lick you right in the mouth.

• 1:28:28Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, on the teeth. That's the greeting. By the way, folks who may wonder, wolf head, not the same as a dog head. They're fucking humongous. Like, they could put your entire head in their mouths. They're, they are not the same as dogs. But I would say coyotes, I would identify more with coyote. And it's a fascinating history to recognize how adaptive both humans, in the sense of Homo sapiens, and coyotes have been over time. I mean, humans attempted the most systematic

• 1:29:09Tim Ferriss?

  Extermination of coyotes as a species unlike any other species in the history of humankind. And we're talking about millions upon millions upon millions of poison bait traps and so on set. And despite that, coyotes have proliferated and adapted beyond anyone's wildest imaginations. Now, part of that is from the removal of their check and balance, which is gray wolves. So there's the removal of the gray wolf as the apex predator, which then has resulted in part in this proliferation of coyote populations. But because they were

• 1:29:51Tim Ferriss?

  never the top predator, they have a wariness and caution about them that makes them very hard to kill. Furthermore, when they're under pressure, their litter size increases. Isn't that wild? As like an evolutionary adaptation? When they're under threat, they go from having, I'm making this up, but let's just say three pups per litter to like six or seven pups per litter. Whoa, crazy. Isn't that wild? It's, it's a fascinating book. It's really, really interesting. And also interesting from the lens of looking at how we have historically looked at coyotes

• 1:30:34Tim Ferriss?

  as a reflection of the, the aspects of ourselves that we were least willing to accept. Super interesting. Going all the way back to Mark Twain, who I love Mark Twain. However, on the particular account of coyotes, created a whole ton of fucking damage and craziness. But it was a good book. It was a good book, especially the first half, I would say.

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  You know what I wish there was? This is just me being a random two glass and a half in.

• 1:31:09Tim Ferriss?

  It's a random show.

• 1:31:09Speaker 02

  Podcaster.

• 1:31:11Tim Ferriss?

  It's a random show.

• 1:31:12Speaker 02

  You know, it'd be fun is like, I'm just making this up. I like product ideas. Wouldn't it be cool if you could say, hey, I'm Tim. At 7:00 PM tonight, I'm going to listen to this coyote book for an hour and we could all tune in and like, listen. And at the same time, and like see comments and chat and stuff like that. And there would be no voice, like it wouldn't be disruptive. We're just all listening and like, it would be like, you could say like one thing per five minutes or whatever, and like, or give a heart or something like when you'd like a certain segment of it or something. There'd be something pretty powerful.

• 1:31:46Tim Ferriss?

  That would be super fun. I think people would really dig that.

• 1:31:50Speaker 02

  Especially if they knew that you were kind of listening at the same time. It's like, I'm listening with Tim right now.

• 1:31:54Tim Ferriss?

  I love that idea.

• 1:31:56Speaker 02

  All right, Audible. So anybody from Audible's out there.

• 1:31:58Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, being synchronous and connected in that way. Dude, tech, it's like,

• 1:32:03Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 1:32:05Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I mean, it is amazing. Amazingly good and amazingly bad. I mean, we are more connected than we have ever been in terms of communication and more isolated and lonely than we have ever been. Ah, holy shit. What a situation.

• 1:32:24Speaker 02

  Good point. All right, let's get through, we're an hour and a half in, but I've got some crazy shit to tell you, so.

• 1:32:28Tim Ferriss?

  Well, let's go to crazy town. Come on, Kevin Rose, you've been holding out.

• 1:32:32Speaker 02

  You and I have been, been supplement geeks for a while. You more so than me for many, many years. You got me onto some crazy shit early on. Always give credit back to the Tim Ferriss for the earliest, you cut me into everything, man. All the HGH and stuff, and you were shooting me up.

• 1:32:47Tim Ferriss?

  Fecal matter transplants from Tasmania.

• 1:32:49Speaker 02

  Transplants.

• 1:32:50Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, all the ketamine suppositories.

• 1:32:54Speaker 02

  Just the best. I mean, I just did one before we started the show, so, you know, feeling it. All right, so a few things that, is that her thing, by the way? Do people tell me the vibe?

• 1:33:04Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah, they boof the K up the bung. It's a thing. Yeah. I think it's kind of ridiculous, but people like any excuse to take drugs up the bung. This is also like a constant through human history. Yeah, go figure that one out.

• 1:33:18Speaker 02

  Do you have a book about it and coyotes?

• 1:33:20Tim Ferriss?

  The four hour coyote spazory?

• 1:33:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:24Tim Ferriss?

  I don't really want to say coyote up the bung. That sounds uncomfortable.

• 1:33:28Speaker 02

  It does. Uh, let's go straight into.

• 1:33:30Tim Ferriss?

  For everybody involved.

• 1:33:32Speaker 02

  A few of the things that I wanted to mention were, you've cut back on supplements. Is that fair to say over the years? Cause you used to, when I went to your medicine cabinet one time, there was like a thousand things in there.

• 1:33:43Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I mean, less than I used to, for sure. I mean, I still take more supplements than anyone else I know, except for maybe, maybe Peter.

• 1:33:52Speaker 02

  Peters, you tell me how many of these you agree with, or you take, or you're curious about, okay? Number one, I've found that collagen for us getting older is legit in terms of like reducing visible lines, like just general skin health. Do you take collagen?

• 1:34:09Tim Ferriss?

  You know, it makes, this is gonna sound funny. Collagen makes me kinda itchy. I don't know why. It makes me like, I get kinda itchy. Yeah. So I do take collagen. I think it's very interesting also as a flooding dose prior to resistance training. And people can look this up. Taking collagen prior to stimulating, say, a location of injury is very, very interesting.

• 1:34:32Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:34:33Tim Ferriss?

  But I hate being really fucking itchy, so I don't, I don't take it too much.

• 1:34:36Speaker 02

  So, two things. Ron DePatrick puts together some, a great data, kind of analysis of all the different published studies that are out there. And there's really strong evidence around just general skin elasticity as you get older. And then obviously joints in general. If you're running, any of that type of stuff, just really healthy joint stuff. Great Lakes, no affiliation, brand that Ron takes, I'm a fan of.

• 1:34:58Tim Ferriss?

  Your cheeks look like a newborn's buttocks. Is that from the collagen? They look very voluptuous.

• 1:35:04Speaker 02

  One other thing before we get off the collagen train. Bone broth.

• 1:35:08Tim Ferriss?

  Okay.

• 1:35:09Speaker 02

  Okay, so Brodo, which you know Marco, right?

• 1:35:13Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I do. Of course I know Marco.

• 1:35:15Speaker 02

  You've known Marco before. So Marco, James Beard Award winning chef, best chef in New York City.

• 1:35:20Tim Ferriss?

  Amazing. He's been on my podcast. Yeah. Amazing guy.

• 1:35:24Speaker 02

  He's fantastic. He's fantastic. Here's the cool thing, is I talked to him, Brodo Forever was his broth company, where he shipped you frozen broth to your house. And I used it all through COVID, it was fantastic. It's like the best broth kills everything on the shelves that I've been a part of, that I've tasted. He figured out a way to get it, so that he doesn't have to add any preservatives, no concentrates or nothing, but shelf stable. So it's fantastic, and it is, these are single servings, you rip them up and put them in a cup, and there's a one minute in the microwave and you're good to go. It's my go-to broth. Brodo is fantastic. Brodo.com, no affiliation, not invested, just a friend.

• 1:36:06Speaker 02

  All right. Ready for two more things?

• 1:36:09Tim Ferriss?

  It's quite an inhale. So I'll also mention, and this is a little self-interested because I'm one of the largest investors in this company. But so he has also played around with bone broth from Axis deer from Maui, which is from Maui New E venison, which I'm very involved with.

• 1:36:26Speaker 02

  Well, he has.

• 1:36:27Tim Ferriss?

  And the collagen and protein levels are fucking bananas. They're like off the charts to the point where people think there are errors in the lab reports. It's really, really wild.

• 1:36:40Speaker 02

  Would they do pills of that? Because that would be really interesting in pill form.

• 1:36:44Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I don't, I don't think so. Right now, it's just whole food or nothing, which I kind of like, because it forces you to do a little bit of work. But Marco is the master of broth. M O B.

• 1:36:57Speaker 02

  He really is.

• 1:36:57Tim Ferriss?

  He really is. Yeah. Try it, Bredo. 100%.

• 1:37:00Speaker 02

  If you live in New York, by the way, he's got physical locations where you can go and get these broths in cup form, like if you're going to a cafe. And you'll know, anyone in New York will tell you, like, it's the best. It's just legit. All right. Couple more things. Three more things. Real quick. Aesop, you know, the brand Aesop?

• 1:37:19Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. What is that?

• 1:37:21Speaker 02

  They make little tiny baby hand sanitizers now, and they smell amazing.

• 1:37:25Tim Ferriss?

  A E S O P. Okay.

• 1:37:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. Do you not know this brand?

• 1:37:29Tim Ferriss?

  No, I do know the brand. What are you using your hand sanitizer for?

• 1:37:33Speaker 02

  No, just like, you know, in your Ubers and shit, you know, you just got a little hand sanitizer, got kids, you know? Okay, so I just want to throw that out there. I have no affiliation. Next thing is creatine fucks up my stomach.

• 1:37:44Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:45Speaker 02

  It really does.

• 1:37:45Tim Ferriss?

  Gives you, yeah, potential for disaster pants high.

• 1:37:48Speaker 02

  It's just, all kinds of things are wrong with creatine. But as someone that works out, you want to take it because you, you know, you get a little boost in the gym and all that good stuff. Have you ever tried this stuff right here?

• 1:37:59Tim Ferriss?

  Creatine. Yeah, I've got some in the bathroom.

• 1:38:01Speaker 02

  Do you really?

• 1:38:01Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, I do.

• 1:38:03Speaker 02

  It's buffered creatine.

• 1:38:04Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:05Speaker 02

  Dude, it eliminated all my stomach issues. Anyway, I thought, yeah, so it's done by Now Sports. If you've had issues taking creatine and you're working out and you want to take some, I just want to throw it out there as something that is good.

• 1:38:18Tim Ferriss?

  You want to hear a horrifying story that I would never tell you if I were sober?

• 1:38:23Speaker 02

  Oh, of course.

• 1:38:26Tim Ferriss?

  So I was in San Francisco and I was.

• 1:38:32Tim Ferriss?

  Rushing to prepare for an international flight, long international flight. I can't remember where I was going, but it was a long flight. And 12 plus hours kind of deal. Yeah, that kind of deal. And I was running around, running around and I had like two double espressos. I had some espresso machine had like two double espressos. A bunch of magnesium and a whole shit.

• 1:38:58Tim Ferriss?

  Like four grams, five grams. Some stupid amount, like unnecessary amount. And thought that was a good idea for whatever reason. So I'm driving to the airport and I'm like, oh, God, my stomach doesn't feel so good. And I'm like, oh, I'm kind of gassy. Oh, not feeling so great. And so, you know, I do a little lean and just promptly shit hole myself.

• 1:39:24Tim Ferriss?

  So bad. And I'm like, all right. Are you in an Uber? No, no, I'm driving myself to like long term parking. And I'm like, okay. So I'm like, wow, this is this is a disaster. What do I do here? You bust out the luggage? Yeah. No, this is when I wish I had your ASOP hand sanitizer. And so I'm on my way and I'm just like, all right, how do I find the silver lining of this? Cause this is so bad. And I'm gonna be late to my flight. I might miss my flight. And I call one of my close friends. I'm not going to mention my name. Because I'm like, this is the one guy who's gonna find this funnier than anyone else. So I call him and I'm like, you will not believe what just happened. And I explained the whole thing. And of course he gets like extreme delight out of this whole situation, which like gives me some redeeming

• 1:40:10Tim Ferriss?

  aspect to the whole thing. I get to the long term parking garage and I'm like, what do I do here? So I take off my underwear,

• 1:40:19Tim Ferriss?

  wipe myself down with underwear, chuck it under some other car and run to my flight and with no underwear on, like long pants, obviously.

• 1:40:30Tim Ferriss?

  And then sit down for like a 12 hour flight smelling like I've just taken a tumble through a fucking slaughterhouse.

• 1:40:38Speaker 02

  Were you economy at that stage?

• 1:40:41Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah. This was like middle seat economy for 12 hours kind of thing.

• 1:40:45Speaker 02

  Oh, fuck.

• 1:40:46Tim Ferriss?

  It was so bad. I mean, it was bad for me. It was embarrassing, but it was like bad also for everyone around me.

• 1:40:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40:54Tim Ferriss?

  And I'm not proud of this, but I've had enough domain tempier to confess my sins.

• 1:41:03Speaker 02

  Everyone's had a close call, if not a fatal disaster in this domain.

• 1:41:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. If you've had enough creatine and caffeine, don't lie to me. You've had disaster pants at some point. Either you saved it and you slid into home or you had absolute like triage where it was a disaster.

• 1:41:22Speaker 02

  Tim, you mentioned ASAP for you wish you had some during this occasion. Maybe they'll want to be a sponsor. You could probably cut this little story out and use it and be like, you know, I shit myself one time and if I only had ASAP hand sanitizer.

• 1:41:40Tim Ferriss?

  I think that'll be one of their highest converting ads of all time.

• 1:41:44Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:41:45Tim Ferriss?

  I have something to show you as an artifact, physical artifact. So this is the latest cock punch coffee. Not sure if you can see it's very pretty. It's very like reflective and gorgeous.

• 1:41:58Speaker 02

  That is beautiful. That's a lot of cock punch. How big is that bag?

• 1:42:02Tim Ferriss?

  This bag is, how many ounces is this? Let's see. This is 10 ounces. So we got the cock punch sort of Miami Vice magenta and teal type colors on the front. We got all the greater houses on the side. We got the eight fold arena icon on that opposite side, which is also for the clerics, House Nemos. And then we got the sort of description on the back QR code to like the whole story. And then we have the UPC, which means that this is retail ready. So I will have some announcements in the not too distant future related to some.

• 1:42:43Speaker 02

  I gotta go buy some more your NFTs.

• 1:42:44Tim Ferriss?

  This coffee. Holy shit. I've never been a meth addict and I don't want to trivialize it, but

• 1:42:54Tim Ferriss?

  when I was testing for this, I didn't understand how real coffee masters and baristas test coffee. So I was doing multiple cups of coffee for every variation that I tested.

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:43:09Tim Ferriss?

  And I was drinking like 12 cups of coffee a day. I was so cracked out. It was not ideal, but I did test dozens and dozens of varieties and ultimately ended up on.

• 1:43:21Speaker 02

  Ethiopian?

• 1:43:22Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. This is Bombay Sadama Ethiopia. This is Ethiopia Mother Station Wash.

• 1:43:28Speaker 02

  Ethiopian coffees are just like so chill.

• 1:43:30Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:31Speaker 02

  They're like, nobody's offended. Everyone just loves them. They're just right down the fairway. They're, they're not too heavy, not too light. They just give you a good flavor profile. Like, nobody's pissed.

• 1:43:40Tim Ferriss?

  Not too oily. This is also medium blend and I want to give credit where credit is due. This is roasted on a bellwether. So bellwether is all electric, the lowest carbon imprint coffee that you can purchase. It's all electric, which also makes it very replicable, which is super interesting, right? Because when you're using analog roasting technology, there's a pretty high degree of variance, whereas with bellwether and bellwether is B E L L W E T H E R. It is all electric. So you can dial in the specs and really replicate on demand, which is impressive to me. I've been very impressed with their consistency.

• 1:44:24Speaker 02

  I gotta say on the, the whole conversation we had earlier about the cock punch name, if you go the route of stimulant drinks slash male.

• 1:44:35Tim Ferriss?

  Perfect.

• 1:44:36Speaker 02

  Enhancement. You're fucking set. Oh, yeah.

• 1:44:40Tim Ferriss?

  It's it's right down the fairway.

• 1:44:42Speaker 02

  Yep. Yeah. The cock punch feels at the 7-Eleven behind the counter that just like gets you going.

• 1:44:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, right, right, right at the impulse purchase. Realm, right next to five hour energy.

• 1:44:53Speaker 02

  So do you need a lift? Cock punch.

• 1:44:55Tim Ferriss?

  Cock punch, yeah. So and also all of my proceeds are going to the foundation. So they go directly to early stage science and all that stuff.

• 1:45:03Speaker 02

  That new jet that you guys bought for your foundation.

• 1:45:07Tim Ferriss?

  He's beautiful. You're such a prick.

• 1:45:10Speaker 02

  Did you get a G6?

• 1:45:11Tim Ferriss?

  Do not have a jet for the foundation. Kevin is punching me in the nuts as per usual. Hashtag cock punch. All right. What else you got?

• 1:45:19Speaker 02

  I got two more things to say. So one thing, and I'm this one here, I'm about three months into testing. It's called One Skin. And I am not a person that goes out and buys like skin products. But I have said, as I've gotten older, like, you know, you think about your crow's feet and all the other shit you have going on, like eyebrows and all this stuff. Eyebrows are fine. But anyway, like, right, right, right here, this part right here.

• 1:45:44Tim Ferriss?

  No wine involved in this podcast. Yep.

• 1:45:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. But but what what got me interested is this is a the isolated is a very science driven team that isolated a peptide that clears out senescent cells.

• 1:46:00Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, like euthanizes all the people in this senior living home, basically, from a cell perspective?

• 1:46:05Speaker 02

  Pretty much. Makes all the bad cells die and all the fresh ones live and lines go away. I think this is all bullshit. But here's the thing. Rhonda Patrick was the first one to talk about it because she was convinced by the science. And then David Sinclair also tweeted about it because he was really convinced by the science. And I'm like, listen, these are two people that are way above my pay grade that on the science side I respect. And if they're talking about this peptide and they're liking the kind of peer reviewed articles that are coming out about it, or sciences coming out about it, I'm going to pay attention. And so I I picked them up and like, you know, I'm like, three months in, and I'm starting to notice little tiny changes, just like in skin quality and like, less like bumpiness

• 1:46:46Speaker 02

  that I would have and more just kind of like supple. I've also had some a lot of pizza lately, so I probably.

• 1:46:52Tim Ferriss?

  You look very, very supple.

• 1:46:54Speaker 02

  Plum. Yeah, pleasantly plump. But I would say that in general, I'm pretty impressed. So I just want to throw that out there. I'm not the scientist, but you know, a couple amazing scientists have already recommended this.

• 1:47:06Tim Ferriss?

  What's the name of this thing?

• 1:47:07Speaker 02

  One skin.

• 1:47:09Tim Ferriss?

  O N E.

• 1:47:10Speaker 02

  I'm not an investor. Yeah, just O N E skin. And they don't have like this extensive product line of all these things. There's like three things you can buy, like a cleanser, an eye cream.

• 1:47:19Tim Ferriss?

  I like that. I honestly, more and more, I like a few SKUs, you know, it's like, if you have a thousand things, I'm like, all right, you're like lining your pipeline with all this shit to feed me. As a customer, but it's like, if you have like one, two, three things, all right, you're really focused on refining that product.

• 1:47:37Speaker 02

  I have a buddy that had lost a bunch of weight lately and had a bunch of kind of like lines in his neck. And so he started applying a bunch of the stuff to his neck and he's like, I'm noticing some results. And I was like, this is kind of interesting. It's worth like letting other people try and see what they think, you know?

• 1:47:50Tim Ferriss?

  My crow's feet are like fucking brontosaurus feet at this point. They're out of control.

• 1:47:54Speaker 02

  Dude, you should try it on one eye for three months. That would be fucking cool, right?

• 1:47:59Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, that's a good idea. That's actually, that's a great idea. Try it on one eye.

• 1:48:05Speaker 02

  On your dates, you're like, you're all fucked up, like I'm just one eye.

• 1:48:08Tim Ferriss?

  The crow's feet pirate? That'd be great.

• 1:48:11Speaker 02

  Just one eye. Your date's like, oh, something's going on.

• 1:48:14Tim Ferriss?

  What was it called? No, no, no. One skin.

• 1:48:17Speaker 02

  One skin. Yeah. Anyway, lastly, this is a Peter Attia recommendation. I wanted to really clean, clean, clean, clean protein for when I make shakes and work out. You probably know about Promix, right?

• 1:48:28Tim Ferriss?

  No, I don't know anything about them.

• 1:48:30Speaker 02

  Oh, so this is Attia's favorite protein, or at least it was as of a couple of months ago.

• 1:48:34Tim Ferriss?

  Is he an investor in Promix?

• 1:48:36Speaker 02

  I don't think so. No. It's called Promix. The founders, I was reading up on who's behind it and it's like just insanely, insanely clean. Grass fed, hormone free cows, minimally processed. You know, there's a lot of them that are out there like this, but I know Attia has a whole SWAT team of people that do all the due diligence for him when he's considering anything new. And if he's going to say something's interesting, I pay attention. And they actually make these little tiny bars that are whey protein, like little rice crispy treats kind of thing, but they don't spike your glucose because I wear my continuous glucose monitor. And it puts on, I think it's either 15 or 20 grams of protein. And so I just have those as snacks I travel with as well. So Promix is his favorite protein as of the last time I chatted with him.

• 1:49:19Tim Ferriss?

  So Promix, and then do you want to mention this rice cooker? I think that might be interesting.

• 1:49:24Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I found a rice cooker. I don't have a link to it in front of me, but there was a rice cooker that I stumbled upon. So I love rice, you know, but for me.

• 1:49:36Tim Ferriss?

  Rice is fucking delicious. So good.

• 1:49:38Speaker 02

  It's so good. And Tim, like back in the day, and you'll remember this quite well, but when you were into a continuous glucose monitors, and then you got me into them shortly after, you used to have to like manually inject yourself with that big ass syringe. Do you remember to put those in?

• 1:49:53Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, so bad. It was like, it was like a barbecue fork tong that you had to stick into your abdomen.

• 1:49:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:00Tim Ferriss?

  It was really bad.

• 1:50:00Speaker 02

  And you would watch the needle go in. There was like no quick action. You had like pushed it in and pushed it out. And then you would get this continuous glucose monitor. And this is like, you know, whatever, 10 years ago. You started doing it. I thought you were crazy. And then I copied you like two months later and started doing it. Three months later, started doing it. And one of the things I noticed, and I've noticed since my entire time doing CGMs, is that rice is my biggest offender. If I eat a cup of rice, my shit is through the roof on the glucose side. And everybody's different. Everybody has different microbiome. There's a whole slew of factors on, on what happens here. But here's the interesting thing. Toshiba, who is a trusted brand, came out with a quote unquote, low carb rice cooker. And I was like, what the fuck is this? Like low carb? Like this bullshit, right? We all know rice is high carb. But what are they talking about? Brown rice? You know, like all this shit,

• 1:50:45Speaker 02

  right? Even brown rice spikes me, by the way. So I, I went, I did the research. And what they've done is they created this clever little basket. They figured out that a typical rice cooker, 99.9% of rice cookers, you pour the water in, cook the rice, it stews in its own water, and your rice is done. You scoop it in your bowl. A bunch of the starch, call it like 70 or so percent of it, is released in that water during the, the kind of the process of actually making and cooking the rice. So Toshiba invented a new rice cooker. They call it their fuzzy logic technology rice cooker, that has a basket that lets all of the starchy water drain to the bottom,

• 1:51:24Speaker 02

  and you end up with a much lower glycemic load. It cuts the carbs by 34%, sorry, 37% reduction in carbohydrate. And dude, I ate a cup of rice, and I'm telling you, I can see it on my CGM. It does not spike me nearly as much as the full rice, which I thought was pretty awesome. I wouldn't have believed this in anyone else, but Toshiba came out with it. And I was like, okay, if Toshiba's gonna put their name behind it, like they must have done the research, you know?

• 1:51:51Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, they're a big dog.

• 1:51:52Speaker 02

  It's $179. If you want to just cut a little bit of carbs out of you, or it rises a big offender for you, it works with the oatmeal, it works with the whole slew of brown rice, white rice, quinoa, the whole range of things. Anyway, I just thought it was really cool. It's got 1,852 ratings with four and a half out of five stars, 4.6 stars out of five. So people love it. 300 plus have bought it in the last month.

• 1:52:15Tim Ferriss?

  Let me ask you this. Taste wise, is it as good?

• 1:52:19Speaker 02

  I couldn't tell the difference.

• 1:52:20Tim Ferriss?

  Okay.

• 1:52:21Speaker 02

  Little bit on the texture, little tiny bit on the texture, but like, call it a maybe five to seven percent delta from what you're normally experiencing on rice. So it's, you're not pissed. It's fine. It's fine. Nobody's complaining.

• 1:52:33Tim Ferriss?

  That's a big deal. It's a big deal. I fucking love rice. There are so many carbs that I can, I'm like, whatever, I can do without it. I love rice. Oh my God, do I love rice.

• 1:52:43Speaker 02

  When you go hog, like full hog on something, like cheat, cheat night.

• 1:52:47Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:48Speaker 02

  What do you do? I'll tell you what I did two nights ago.

• 1:52:50Tim Ferriss?

  All right.

• 1:52:51Speaker 02

  I went with Darian.

• 1:52:51Tim Ferriss?

  All right, you go.

• 1:52:52Speaker 02

  More teens.

• 1:52:52Tim Ferriss?

  You go first.

• 1:52:53Speaker 02

  I pulled out of the fridge, I had this like, mixed berry, it was like a berry cookie ice cream or some shit. And like, do you feel like hell when you crush an entire pint of ice cream? Like, I feel like I've just like, have sinned beyond belief.

• 1:53:07Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's been a while since I've crushed a whole pint of ice cream. My weaknesses are super clear. My weaknesses are cheesecake. If, so my question for any waitstaff is, from one to 10, no seven allowed, how good is your cheesecake? And if they give me an eight, nine, or 10, I'll do the cheesecake. There's cheesecake, and then there's carrot cake. So those are my two. Oh my God. But it has to be super moist, and the icing has to be really, really, really good. And

• 1:53:43Speaker 02

  I also can't have big chunks of carrot in it. If it has big chunks of carrot.

• 1:53:46Tim Ferriss?

  No, I don't want like carrot cake is a joke. It's fucking cake, right? I mean, no, if it's got huge chunks of carrot, like I'm not Bugs Bunny. I don't eat. Yeah, I don't have a carrot deficiency.

• 1:53:57Speaker 02

  Do that, though. I've had some fucking carrots in there.

• 1:53:59Tim Ferriss?

  I'm not into it.

• 1:54:00Speaker 02

  Why is there chunks of carrot?

• 1:54:00Tim Ferriss?

  I'm not into it. No. So those two, I will always go for pint of ice cream. And look, if it's in front of me, I'm sure I'll eat it if I've had especially two drinks, like two glasses or more of any drink.

• 1:54:13Speaker 02

  Like tonight?

• 1:54:14Tim Ferriss?

  Like tonight. So martinis, you mentioned martinis. Is it an old fucker thing that they end up turning to martinis? Cause I have become more and more interested in martinis as my drink.

• 1:54:25Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, dude. So here's the deal, dude. Martinis, the thing that is so beautiful about them is that if you order it correctly, it is spirit clean. So it's not like a heavy, like there's no sugar. So here's what I do. I say, give me a gin martini. I typically go with, I like the less botanical gins.

• 1:54:44Tim Ferriss?

  Yep.

• 1:54:45Speaker 02

  So I'll do a bootles or something that that's just like less botanical. And then I'll add in two olives. And I'll say extra dry, extra cold. And then you're good to go. And just a tiny bit of vermouth. So on the dry side, rinse the glass with vermouth. And then so it's mainly gin and you got this couple of olives in there and you're good to go.

• 1:55:05Tim Ferriss?

  Hmm. What is your opinion on espresso martinis?

• 1:55:09Speaker 02

  I mean, I only do those at like my friends bachelor parties. We're like, I'm gonna be out till 2am. Cause like, otherwise caffeine fucks me like.

• 1:55:17Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, Manhattan speedball. Yep. I love espresso martinis. I gotta be honest.

• 1:55:23Speaker 02

  Dude, they're really good. If you're on a date, go to town, son.

• 1:55:27Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:27Speaker 02

  Like, that's a great way to go out and have fun.

• 1:55:30Tim Ferriss?

  I'm back on the field. I'm not the young man I once was. My chi has been diminished. I need to compensate with caffeine.

• 1:55:36Speaker 02

  Tim, you gotta move out here, dude. Like, this is like fertile ground. You gotta come out here.

• 1:55:41Tim Ferriss?

  I don't know if I can deal with it. I don't know if I can deal with it, honestly. It's too intoxicating. It's like, how much time do you want to spend falling down the rabbit hole with Alice in Wonderland? I mean, it's, it's intoxicating.

• 1:55:56Speaker 02

  Do you think they're all kind of, can we bleep something out if I say it?

• 1:56:00Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:56:01Speaker 02

  Do you think they're all out here? Or do you think it's like, do you think those blue blue that part out? Are they all that type of person? Or do you think it's like?

• 1:56:10Tim Ferriss?

  No.

• 1:56:10Speaker 02

  Cause I think there's some good people.

• 1:56:11Tim Ferriss?

  No, no, no.

• 1:56:12Speaker 02

  Not that she's a bad person, but.

• 1:56:15Tim Ferriss?

  Said it's gonna be amazing. So I think there are amazing people. It's just, you have to really wade through and sort through a lot in LA to get to the signal. It's very hard.

• 1:56:31Speaker 02

  What are you looking for? What are you looking for in a relationship long term? What are your like top go-tos? Like, what, what, what do you want?

• 1:56:39Tim Ferriss?

  What I want? I want someone with, uh.

• 1:56:41Speaker 02

  Don't say physical, Britt.

• 1:56:43Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, the physical matters. Let's not fucking lie about it.

• 1:56:45Speaker 02

  Get me wrong. I know you want to. I know, I know what you want.

• 1:56:48Tim Ferriss?

  Look, Daria, I'll give Daria a compliment. Daria takes very good care of herself, right? Like that's.

• 1:56:52Speaker 02

  Oh dude, she works out two hours a day.

• 1:56:54Tim Ferriss?

  It's like, that's not trivial. She's very, uh, and it's for her as much as it is for you, but it's.

• 1:57:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:57:00Tim Ferriss?

  It's, it's a significant.

• 1:57:01Speaker 02

  It's not for me.

• 1:57:03Tim Ferriss?

  It's a significant thing, right? Like the physical practice is, is a significant thing. So there's that. I mean, I like strong,

• 1:57:12Tim Ferriss?

  physically attuned women. Now, strong doesn't mean big. I'm not looking for a CrossFit Games winner necessarily, but like someone who is very physically attuned is important to me. That's important to me.

• 1:57:25Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:57:26Tim Ferriss?

  Personally, it's important to a partner. Outside of that, I mean, I think that I'm looking for someone who is, has a clear sense of identity and direction, because that direction may change. But if someone doesn't have a clear demonstrated ability to focus for at least a few years, I find that the relationship becomes this nitpicky project.

• 1:57:51Speaker 02

  Well, you don't want them also just like hanging on. It's gotta be their own show too, right? They got, not show, but you know what I mean? They got to have their own shit going on.

• 1:57:58Tim Ferriss?

  They have to have their own shit going on.

• 1:58:00Speaker 02

  How should we wrap things up? I got way more things to talk about, but I know we've been going for a while.

• 1:58:06Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I mean, I'll add one. All right. So let's take a departure from.

• 1:58:09Speaker 02

  Do one more each?

• 1:58:10Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, sure. So I'll give one. So mine is an app. You can find it on browser on laptop as well called Airaloo, A-I-R-A-L-O, which is for cellular data overseas. And it is the easiest, most reliable approach that I've found to cellular data overseas. So if you're going to any country, you can buy a cellular data plan, even if, for instance, in my case Verizon may not support or.

• 1:58:41Speaker 02

  Oh, I can help you here. I got a better solution than this, but go ahead.

• 1:58:44Tim Ferriss?

  All right. Well, I can't wait to hear. You know, in the case of Verizon, like, yeah, they want to upgrade you in quotation marks.

• 1:58:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:58:50Tim Ferriss?

  All the time to like an unlimited data plan, but the cost question is open for me. So I've used Airaloo, which I have been very happy with up to this point in time. So what's your better alternative?

• 1:59:03Speaker 02

  Here's something that most people don't know is that iPhones in particular, and I believe Android phones as well, they can support multiple SIMs. And at this point in time, it's they're called eSIMs because you don't actually need a SIM card.

• 1:59:14Tim Ferriss?

  Airaloo is an eSIM.

• 1:59:15Speaker 02

  Okay. So Google Fi is just insane because internationally, they give you coverage in just so many countries. I don't have the exact number, but I put on a secondary plan. So there's two things this helps you with. My main plan is Verizon and I use that for data because they have good 5G. I use it for my main phone number. No, sorry. I don't use my phone number. I use it for data. I use my phone number at Google Fi because it's protected by two factor authentication, all crazy security of Google Fi. So SIM swaps are very, you know, they just can't happen because there's not a person to call to trick into doing a SIM swap. You have to actually log in with your Google account. So use that at Google Fi is your main number.

• 2:00:00Speaker 02

  Change the data to go to Verizon. So you get the good data package because you can do this in the iPhone.

• 2:00:05Tim Ferriss?

  So walk me through this just to back up. So let's, so I have a Verizon account. What do I do?

• 2:00:11Speaker 02

  Okay, so you want to transfer your number to Google Fi.

• 2:00:14Tim Ferriss?

  How do you do that?

• 2:00:15Speaker 02

  Okay, Google Fi on the website will walk you through it.

• 2:00:18Tim Ferriss?

  Okay.

• 2:00:19Speaker 02

  Now, Google Fi is not going to give you the best data. So what you then do is you say, okay, Verizon, I love you, but you're going to be my data only plan. And they charge like $20 a month or something for it. It's data only. Okay? So that's your eSIM that is data only. And then in the settings, you say, where do you want to get your data from? And you say, I want to get it from Verizon. And then you've got the 5G network here in the United States. You're good to go, right? And then your security of your main phone number is locked down by Google Fi. So that's the most secure place that you can have it. Then, when you go abroad, because Google Fi has all of these international connections, it's like over 200 destinations, they say, they have coverage on. It's insanely cheap. Their data plans are the cheapest there are out there.

• 2:01:02Speaker 02

  Then you go into your phone settings and say, switch my data from Verizon to Google Fi. So now you're Google Fi all the time when you're international in one phone. You don't have to switch phones or anything. And so I have this like little two bar thing that goes on. They show you two bars on your phone when you do both of the plans. So it's great.

• 2:01:18Tim Ferriss?

  I love it. Boom. So what is the infrastructure of Google Fi? How are they providing that data?

• 2:01:23Speaker 02

  They use multiple providers, but it's mainly T-Mobile in the United States. But it says that all plans include US, Canada, and Mexico. Unlimited plans and flexible plans, data in 200-plus international destinations, plus 5G in select countries. And their 5G country list just keeps growing and growing. It's great, man. Every time I've ever flighted anywhere international, I just turn on Google Fi and I get like the highest speed. It's fantastic. It's so inexpensive.

• 2:01:52Tim Ferriss?

  Amazing. I'm on it. All right. So I'm taking notes too, folks. All right, Kevin, you said you had one more? Do you have something else?

• 2:02:00Speaker 02

  Last one, I've got a bunch of investing related stuff, but you can get that on my podcast, kevinrose.com. There'll be a link to the podcast at the top. But I would say the last thing, which is the absolute no brainer right now, screw buying individual bonds. The rates are changing all the time. Vanguard, and this is not investment advice. This is just like me saying what I do personally. When I do my bonds, rather than do bond funds or crazy like medium term or long term bonds, we don't want to screw with that, given where rates are at. VUSXX is the Vanguard fund that I use. And I think it's a no brainer in that it's 100% treasury based. So they buy US government treasuries. It's short term bond fund.

• 2:02:43Speaker 02

  So all these banks right now are being like, hey, we'll give you four and a half percent. We'll give you 4% blah, blah. Screw that, even though it may seem like a quote unquote, high interest yield. You go set up a Vanguard account, buy this fund right now. And this obviously changes day by day, non investment advice. Again, right now it's 5.32% compound yield on Vanguard with like the smallest management fee and they're just buying US treasuries. You're getting 5.3% home run is just a no brainer. So that's what I'm doing on the bond side right now. Everything else index invested, set it, forget it, except for Nvidia. I also think that there's some upside in AMD potentially on the low end AI side.

• 2:03:25Tim Ferriss?

  Wait, what? Hold on, say that again. Did you say Nvidia?

• 2:03:28Speaker 02

  Nvidia.

• 2:03:29Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. GPUs.

• 2:03:30Speaker 02

  Nvidia, I think it's going to three trillion. I think it's going to three trillion.

• 2:03:33Tim Ferriss?

  The new plutonium. It's like the new arms race.

• 2:03:35Speaker 02

  Listen, AI is the shit. It's not going away anytime soon. It's not a fad. This is not VR, AR bullshit. This is really going to change the entire world. Nvidia is the dominant player in this, the space, the stock. If you look at it, it's, it's like scary as shit because the run up has just been like the most insane steep climb you've ever seen. I think long term it's going to a $3 trillion company. You know, it's at close to two hovering at two right now. This is a growth play. This is not an angel investment. I hold some just because I like to hold a few individual stocks. I think AMD is a good cheap play for this. They still have a pretty high price to earnings ratio. And they also, I met with a good friend of mine that's insanely smart PhD from MIT that

• 2:04:17Speaker 02

  is one of the earliest inventors of a bunch of AI, sold his company to Apple. I won't name him, but he told me that the problem with AMD is they have an underdeveloped software stack for AI, but they're Rapidly trying to fix that because I like that's the biggest issue that AMD has right now. AMD is like way cheaper than Nvidia right now. So if I was gonna like say, okay, I've got X number of dollars for an AI play. Two things, dollar cost, average your way in. So you're not buying the high, not buying the low. You're just spending a fixed amount of money over six months or so. To like slowly work your way into the market. If you don't know what dollar cost averaging is, Google search it. And then AMD would be like, if I put like 75% in Nvidia, put 25% AMD on investment advice.

• 2:05:00Speaker 02

  TSMC is the manufacturer of all the chips. TSMC makes Nvidia chips, AMD chips. They are the backbone of this entire world when it comes to manufacturing CPUs, GPUs. The biggest concern there is they're in Taiwan. Hotly contested China issues. I don't touch it because I worry about China. I talked to my buddy, my buddy that's really, really deep on the AI side, one of my most trusted advisors on the AI side. He said that, and this was a big shocker to me. He told me that Facebook invested in AI a few years ago and bought up some of the best engineers in AI.

• 2:05:38Speaker 02

  So he would not be surprised if Facebook unveils some crazy, shocking, amazing AI tech in the next six months to a year. And so I trust him. I'm not buying Facebook stock because I think they're fucked up for a whole bunch of other reasons. They're spending way too much on VR and AR. But that was eye opening to me. The other two is big players is Google and Amazon. Google's only showing a little bit of their cards right now, not revealing the whole thing. Bard, their AI is insanely, insanely locked down. The real Bard behind the scenes, if you're at Google. It's a 10x improvement over what they have publicly available.

• 2:06:13Tim Ferriss?

  It's a lot better. I'll give a wink. Yeah, it's a lot better.

• 2:06:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. Last thing, NTDOY Nintendo, Super Mario Brothers, second highest box office sales out of all animated films. The Super Mario Brothers, amazing movie. They're sitting in a fuck ton of IP. So a nibble for me is Nintendo. I nibble because I see them playing with Universal Studios. Could they be the next Disney? I don't know, man. Zelda could be the next Lord of the Rings. There's a lot of IP locked up there in Nintendo. I think that could be interesting.

• 2:06:47Tim Ferriss?

  That's fun. Yeah, for people who are wondering, whoever are wondering also Nintendo way back in the day, Nintendo.

• 2:06:55Tim Ferriss?

  Used to make

• 2:06:55Speaker 02

  Nintendo.

• 2:06:56Tim Ferriss?

  Initially, initially, they made trading cards. Hanafuda, Hanafuda trading cards in Japan. They still make them.

• 2:07:05Speaker 02

  They're so oishi.

• 2:07:06Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, oishi, delicious.

• 2:07:08Speaker 02

  They're just beautiful and delicious.

• 2:07:09Tim Ferriss?

  Delicious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wazukushi, wazukushi. Very beautiful. All right, man. Well, fucking A, we've covered a lot. That was great.

• 2:07:17Speaker 02

  Nice to see you, buddy. Yeah, good to see you, brother. This was fun.

• 2:07:21Tim Ferriss?

  Anything else you'd like to say? Kevin, you're gonna point people to the new podcast?

• 2:07:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, just if you, if you head to kevinrose.com, it'll be at the header there. I'll make sure it's up. And I appreciate you all for listening. I promised some wild, crazy moments and some fun stuff, so.

• 2:07:35Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:35Speaker 02

  Thank you for tuning in.

• 2:07:36Tim Ferriss?

  Kevin is very, very, very, very good at his format, so check it out. And for the show notes from this, God knows what kind of mess my team will have to untangle. But tim.blog/podcast, so find links to all sorts of shit and.

• 2:07:52Speaker 02

  Aesop handstand is for when you shit yourself.

• 2:07:56Tim Ferriss?

  Exactly.

• 2:07:58Tim Ferriss?

  Hashtag Aesop disaster pants sponsorship incoming.

• 2:08:05Tim Ferriss?

  All right, guys. Thanks for tuning in.

• 2:08:07Speaker 02

  Talk to you soon.

• 2:08:08Tim Ferriss?

  Bye. Hey, guys, this is Tim again. Just one more thing before you take off, and that is Five Bullet Friday. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend? Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on that get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests.

• 2:08:52Tim Ferriss?

  And these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog/friday, type that into your browser, tim.blog/friday, drop in your email and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening.

• 2:09:20Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by AG1, the daily foundational nutritional supplement that supports whole body health. I view AG1 as comprehensive nutritional insurance, and that is nothing new. I actually recommended AG1 in my 2010 bestseller, more than a decade ago, The 4-Hour Body, and I did not get paid to do so. I simply loved the product and felt like it was the ultimate nutritionally dense supplement that you could use conveniently while on the run, which is, for me, a lot of the time. I have been using it a very, very long time indeed. And I do get asked a lot what I would take if I could only take one supplement. And the true answer is invariably AG1. It simply covers a ton of bases.

• 2:10:02Tim Ferriss?

  I usually drink it in the mornings and frequently take their travel packs with me on the road. So what is AG1? What is this stuff? AG1 is a science-driven formulation of vitamins, probiotics, and whole-food sourced nutrients. In a single scoop, AG1 gives you support for the brain, gut, and immune system. Since 2010, they have improved the formula 52 times in pursuit of making the best foundational nutrition supplement possible, using rigorous standards and high-quality ingredients. How many ingredients? 75. And you would be hard-pressed to find a more nutrient-dense formula on the market. It has a multivitamin, multi-mineral superfood complex, probiotics and prebiotics for gut

• 2:10:43Tim Ferriss?

  health, an antioxidant immune support formula, digestive enzymes, and adaptogens to help manage stress. Now, I do my best, always, to eat nutrient-dense meals. That is the basic, basic, basic, basic requirement, right? That is why things are called supplements. Of course, that's what I focus on, but it is not always possible. It is not always easy. So, part of my routine is using AG1 daily. If I'm on the road, on the run, it just makes it easy to get a lot of nutrients at once and to sleep easy knowing that I am checking a lot of important boxes. So, each morning, AG1. That's just like brushing my teeth, part of the routine. It's also NSF certified for sports, so professional athletes trust it to be safe.

• 2:11:26Tim Ferriss?

  And each pouch of AG1 contains exactly... Exactly what is on the label does not contain harmful levels of microbes or heavy metals and is free of 280 banned substances. It's the ultimate nutritional supplement in one easy scoop. So take ownership of your health and try AG1 today. You will get a free one-year supply of vitamin D and five free AG1 travel packs with your first subscription purchase. So learn more, check it out, go to drinkag1.com/tim. That's drinkag1, the number one, drinkag1.com/tim. Last time, drinkag1.com/tim. Check it out. This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep.

• 2:12:09Tim Ferriss?

  Temperature is one of the main causes of poor sleep and heat is my personal nemesis. I've suffered for decades tossing and turning, throwing blankets off, pulling the back on, putting one leg on top and repeating all of that ad nauseam. But now I am falling asleep in record time. Why? Because I'm using a device that was recommended to me by friends called the Pod Cover by Eight Sleep. The Pod Cover fits on any mattress and allows you to adjust the temperature of your sleeping environment, providing the optimal temperature that gets you the best night's sleep. With the Pod Cover's dual-zone temperature control, you and your partner can set your sides of the bed to as cool as 55 degrees or as hot as 110 degrees. I think generally in my experience, my partners prefer the high side and I like to sleep very,

• 2:12:54Tim Ferriss?

  very cool. So stop fighting, this helps. Based on your biometrics, environment and sleep stages, the Pod Cover makes temperature adjustments throughout the night that limit wake-ups and increase your percentage of deep sleep. In addition to its best-in-class temperature regulation, the Pod Cover sensors also track your health and sleep metrics without the need to use a wearable. So go to eightsleep.com/tim, all spelled out, eightsleep.com/tim, and save $250 on the Eight Sleep Pod Cover. That's eightsleep.com/tim. Eight Sleep currently ships within the US, Canada and the UK, select countries in the EU and Australia. Again, that's eightsleep.com/tim to save $250 on the Eight Sleep Pod Cover.