Pod Insights Habits and Hustle Episode 479: Lisa Nichols: How to Go From Terrified of Speaking to Magnetically Captivating Any Room About this episode Think you need to be a "natural" to be a powerful speaker? Think again. In this episode of Habits and Hustle, I sit down with Lisa Nichols, a transformational speaker, who breaks down exactly how anyone can go from terrified of speaking to magnetically captivating an audience.
We discuss the four types of speakers and why most people get stuck in the "information trap." Lisa reveals her signature "scooping" technique that makes audiences see themselves in your story, and explains why we're now living in an influence economy where connection trumps credentials every time.
Lisa Nichols is a transformational speaker, CEO, and New York Times bestselling author who co-authored The Secret and multiple Chicken Soup for the Soul books. She's built a multi-million dollar company and has spoken to over 3 million people worldwide. She now dedicates her time to teaching others how to master their message.
What We Discuss:
(00:15) Why information doesn't inspire and the #1 mistake speakers make
(03:00) The 4 types of speakers: Which one are you?
(05:34) How to make any audience see themselves in you (the "scooping" technique)
(11:01) How to pull a powerful story out of your life experiences
(12:00) Show vs. tell: The storytelling technique that moves rooms
(17:32) The personality trait that's often misunderstood in successful people
(19:30) How Lisa handles massive business failures and still trusts herself
(20:47) The $5 million fraud that nearly destroyed her company
(29:03) Why storytelling is the most important skill in today's influence economy
(34:56) Why your lived-through story no longer belongs to you
…and more!
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Therasage: Head over to therasage.com http://therasage.com/ and use code Be Bold for 15% off
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Find more from Jen:
Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/
Instagram: @therealjencohen
Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books
Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement
Find more from Lisa Nichols:
Website: https://motivatingthemasses.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lisa2motivate
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:01 Speaker 00 Hi guys, this is Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it.
0:07 Speaker 01 Before we dive into today's episode, I first want to thank our sponsor Therasage. Their Trillight Panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go. And I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations in places in my body where honestly, I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach cramps, shoulder, ankle. Red light therapy is my go-to. Plus, it also has amazing anti-aging benefits, including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for.
0:49 Speaker 01 I personally use Therasage Trillight everywhere and all the time. It's small, it's affordable, it's portable, and it's really effective. Head over to therasage.com right now and use code BBOULDS for 15% off. This code will work site-wide. Again, head over to therasage, T-H-E-R-A-S-A-G-E.com and use code BBOULDS for 15% off any of their products.
1:30 Speaker 01 Okay, everybody, this is gonna be a brief podcast. A powerful but short, powerful podcast, because I have my friend Lisa Nichols here again. Thank you for being here.
1:40 Jen Cohen? I'm so glad to be back. Thank you for having me back.
1:42 Speaker 01 This is a pleasure. The pleasure is all mine. But before we start, we have only like a few minutes with you today. However, we need to be as focused and alert as possible, because God knows, it's, we gotta be on point. So we're doing a little healthy shots.
1:57 Jen Cohen? One of my husband's favorites.
1:58 Speaker 01 I love it. So this is Magic Mine. This one has no sugar, by the way, and no caffeine. So it's for, and it's, let me tell, well, let me know if it works, alright?
2:06 Jen Cohen? That's to you.
2:07 Speaker 01 I love that your husband loves this. Me too.
2:11 Jen Cohen? I've had so many of these already today. They taste good, too, right?
2:13 Speaker 03 Is it okay to take all of it?
2:14 Jen Cohen? Yeah.
2:15 Speaker 03 Okay, good.
2:15 Jen Cohen? By the way, I'm just like,
2:17 Speaker 03 It's delicious.
2:17 Jen Cohen? gingerly sipping it because I've had four, which I'm not supposed to have. They've told me to like, kind of like, cut back a little because I have like, woo, because I like it.
2:25 Speaker 03 Can you not shot, take shots all day?
2:27 Jen Cohen? Shot, shot, shot, shot, exactly.
2:29 Speaker 03 Right, right. I love it. Thank you.
2:30 Jen Cohen? Yo, thank you. I love these things. They're very good for you and they've got great ingredients. Okay, next, let's go into it. Okay, Lisa, you are like to me, I like watch your stuff. I watch your videos. I watch your, like, what you do on stage. And you're so captivating. We were talking about this outside. You're so just naturally motivating. And I was saying outside, like, it's such, it's so natural. Like, how can you actually, do you really believe you can teach somebody to be magnetic? Or is it something that we have to be born with?
3:02 Speaker 03 For years, I thought I couldn't. I've been told for years, you've got something. And I didn't know quite for a while how to teach it to others. And then I spent seven days locked in my office and I wrote down everything that I did. They had really wonky names. And I just kind of wrote down what I was doing. And then I was able to put it into a technique. Five years later, I see people doing the technique. So the answer is yes. You can go from a zero, I'm definitely afraid of speaking, to a four. You can go from a four to an eight. I've seen it. All you need to learn are the techniques. Speaking, impactful speaking is more than information.
3:42 Jen Cohen? Right.
3:42 Speaker 03 It blends science. It blends art. It blends a sense of vulnerability. It blends techniques. And there's 16 techniques. And I'm adamant about teaching those techniques, all to make you more impactful.
3:56 Jen Cohen? So what's the number one mistake people make when they're trying to impact people, but they're just giving too much communication, too much information?
4:05 Speaker 03 That's the mistake.
4:05 Jen Cohen? Oh, is that? Okay.
4:06 Speaker 03 The mistake is that they think information is impactful. Information is not impactful. Information is educational. And you have to decide, number one. The number one thing that people don't realize is that there's four types of speakers. There's an informational speaker, which majority of people fall in. There's a motivational speaker. Outward, energy, rah rah, go get them. There's an inspirational speaker. It's an inside job, more quiet. And then there's a transformational coach who speaks as a way to invite you into your transformation. Most people don't know that there are three distinctions.
4:39 Jen Cohen? Oh, wow. So like a Tony Robbins.
4:41 Speaker 03 Four distinctions.
4:41 Jen Cohen? What would he be, what would, Tony Robbins?
4:44 Speaker 03 Motivational, motivational. And then he moved into transformational because you be with him long enough, you'll get changed. But he's definitely topical. Motivation, Tony Robbins, Les Brown.
4:54 Jen Cohen? Yeah.
4:55 Speaker 03 Topical, Marion Williamson, Wayne Dyer, inspirational.
4:59 Jen Cohen? And what are you?
5:00 Speaker 03 Transformational. But I started motivational. So you can move through the, you can move through the different genres. I started motivational. I thought I was motivational. So I compared myself to Tony Robbins and Les Brown. And I lost the comparison every single time. And then I realized I'm not motivational. People still call me that. I'm not motivated. I, I started inspirational. I started inside job. I would speak and people go, hmm. And I wanted to go, yeah. And I go, I suck.
5:30 Jen Cohen? Right.
5:31 Speaker 03 Well, I wa, I was always inspirational. A lot of people start informational. And they move from information to inspiration. Most of the time, information doesn't move to motivation. It's too big of a, from head to physical. But information can move to inspiration. And you, and all levels require information.
5:51 Jen Cohen? Right.
5:51 Speaker 03 So your information is never non-existent. It's never, it's always important. It's the core of your message. But what do you wrap around the message? It's almost like, make me a great dish, but put it in an amazing crust. And that crust is the experience. Put in an amazing package. Don't just inform me, inspire me. People want to be inspired way more than they want to be informed. Especially in this day and age. And the number one, if I say number one five times, and it's five different number ones. But one of the main things you could do for an audience to want more of you is let them see themselves in you. That requires technique.
6:29 Jen Cohen? Yes.
6:30 Speaker 03 And no matter where I am, I was in Kazakhstan and Kiev and Swaziland, where people didn't speak any English. And they were saying, I am like you in another language. You are like me. You can show any audience themselves when you use the right technique in the right way. It's a powerful art. It's a powerful art in storytelling. Now, I just have to say this. We're no longer in a traditional economy. We are now, Jennifer, in an influence economy. And in an influence economy, people don't care as much about products as they care about the person. They don't care much about the credentials as much as they care about the connection. And so if there's ever a time for you to master your message and master the delivery of your message,
7:15 Speaker 03 it's now. Because people will choose you, then buy from you.
7:20 Jen Cohen? Totally agree. By the way, you couldn't have said it better. I totally 100% agree. That's why I think this is very important. Because everybody now is a personal brand. No matter what you are, you have to have, you have to, you have to be able to sell your personal brand through storytelling. But storytelling is, I, I still go back to my, my point. It's, it could be very difficult if you don't have the right tools.
7:46 Speaker 03 Absolutely. And then if you don't, if you haven't mastered how to create stories organically, you'll become a one-hit wonder.
7:53 Jen Cohen? Well, that's the thing. So like people like you who are nat, I say you're so naturally passionate and vulnerable and a good storyteller. I have a few friends like you who do this well. Jesse Itzler is also a friend of mine who does a very good job at storytelling, and he's very, very good on stage. But that's a craft. And so I guess my first, like, my, not my first question, but I guess my, what I want you to help and, and help guide us and me, you know, is where do people begin? Because I think everyone has a story. They don't think their story is valid, right? They don't think it's it's strong enough. It's bold enough. How do we create a story within ourselves to even start with the with the storytelling?
8:37 Speaker 03 So I'll give you three things that you could do to immediately increase the impact of delivering a message. Whether you're delivering a story or delivering content. Content is always flat. It's content. It's what you put around the content that makes the experience more exciting. Does that make sense?
8:55 Jen Cohen? Yes, give me an example.
8:57 Speaker 03 So if you're giving me three points, three ways to be healthier, those three ways don't change. Those three ways don't ever get exciting. It's what you tell me right before you give me the way number one and what you tell me right after you give me way number three that makes the entire experience of you feel better. Let me give you another example. Let me take you a little further. So there's a story attached to you. There's there's a story in your why. I'm gonna make stuff up right now. But watch this. There was a time when I fought for my life. I fought for my health. I lived in a private health hell. No one knew about it. I made thousands of dollars a month. I was quite successful on the outside, but on the inside, I was miserable. My heart wasn't working right. My body wasn't responding right.
9:41 Speaker 03 And I felt lost in my own body. It betrayed me. I found three things that turned me around. Three things that made life worth living again. I want to share those three things with you. Now, I don't know the three things. I'm just making this up.
9:56 Jen Cohen? I was I was like, what are the three things? That's what I'm saying.
9:59 Speaker 03 I'm just making this up.
9:59 Jen Cohen? You know what it is? If you're shy, like what you just did, if someone is a shy person, they're not gonna be able to execute on that.
10:08 Speaker 03 Hold on, you mean like Beyonce?
10:10 Jen Cohen? Well, Beyonce, but she's but she is she's fierce. She's like known to be Sasha Fierce.
10:16 Speaker 03 She turns it on. She turns it on. You mean like Demiita Jo? Do you know who Demiita Jo is?
10:21 Jen Cohen? Of course I know who Demiita Jo is. That's Janet Jackson.
10:24 Speaker 03 Who's very shy.
10:24 Jen Cohen? Very shy.
10:25 Speaker 03 So what about a shy?
10:27 Jen Cohen? Okay, but that's on Sid. You know, like when someone has like, okay, you're right. But you're talking about some of the biggest superstars in the world.
10:34 Speaker 03 But you turn it on and then you turn it off. My, my husband's that way. He's like Mr. Television guy. And then he comes home and he's Mr. Book Guy. It's okay. You know what was required to land the plane. You give the people what they need, not what you want. Your conviction and your convenience don't live on the same block. Pull up your big girl pants.
10:53 Jen Cohen? That's, look at you. It's so true. I gotta put on my big girl, but I don't.
10:57 Speaker 03 The world needs you. The world needs a solution. You just share with me some stuff outside that I'm like, what? Well, my, my husband's trying to get me to do creatine forever. You just said like three reasons. I need you.
11:09 Jen Cohen? That's content, though.
11:10 Speaker 03 No, that, the passion you had with it. The reason why, like you were, in order for me to remember you and remember your content, you better make it juicy.
11:20 Jen Cohen? That's true. Everyone has creatine.
11:22 Speaker 03 Yes, so, so, so yes, it's content. But like I said earlier, you need to put something on each side of it. So I come for you.
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12:45 Jen Cohen? What do you tell people who need to pull a story, their life, their personal story, out from them? Because again, I think people don't even realize that they have a story. They think, oh, they're boring, or their story doesn't matter. Because I think a lot of people don't think that they matter. And so their stories are insignificant.
13:05 Speaker 03 Well, even there, I know a lot of gladiators who know they matter. They just don't know how to tell their story. So those are the two things. Either you don't think your story matters, or you know your story matters, you just don't know how to tell it. So number one, and this is not like a shameless plug, but that's what I do, because I know it's not easy. Like, for years, my friends asked me to show them how to do it. And I was like, you gotta know this. And I realized people don't know. So number one, I have a framework that helps people, literally drop it in a framework where you just follow this. Two, 30 seconds, talk about something big that I did. Two minutes, talk about a low point. But here's the deal in the low point. Speak to a low point in the form of a show me versus tell me. It's called scooping. That's one of my techniques. Scooping the room.
13:50 Speaker 03 People don't have your same scenario. They don't have your experience, Jennifer. They don't have my experience. But they felt the same way I felt. So the mistake most people make, and I don't want to keep calling mistake, but where they miss moving a room is that you're telling me the details. You're not telling me how you felt. You're telling me the details, but you're not telling me what was going on in your head. Let me give you an example. The day I realized that I was being kicked out of college, I immediately felt like I was a failure. I had ripples and ripples of shame running through my body. I was embarrassed to leave the school. And I was afraid of what my future was going to be. Now, you weren't kicked out of college, I hope. I was kicked out of college. You weren't kicked out, but you felt shame. You felt fear.
14:34 Speaker 03 Did you see how you started nodding? The more I went into the emotions, the more you started nodding.
14:39 Jen Cohen? You know what you did? I just realized. You put a lot of adjectives in there for detail.
14:44 Speaker 03 I scooped you.
14:45 Jen Cohen? You said the word shame. You felt shame. You felt like a failure. You felt like this. So you like basically compounded. That emotion with lots of words to describe.
14:54 Speaker 03 I showed you. I showed you versus told you. I showed you versus told you. When I realized that I was being robbed, I realized that this consultant had literally betrayed me. I was afraid of my own thoughts. I could only see red. The heat on the back of my neck would not go down. The temperature was a hundred. I never told you I was angry. I showed you I was angry.
15:22 Jen Cohen? Yeah.
15:22 Speaker 03 Most people are lazy. They want to hurry up and get to the end. They want to prove to you that they're super smart. The best gift you can give an audience, if you're listening to my voice and you want to be impactful, is unpack your story, unpack your message. Use more descriptive words that they can relate to. Your speaking is not about you. It has nothing, very little to do with you. Speaking is about the audience. You're never speaking to a hundred people or a thousand people. You're speaking to one person in a thousand seats. They're only thinking about, what can I get out of this that can help my life? When you come with that level of service, that level of, I'mma transform you.
16:04 Jen Cohen? Keep going.
16:05 Speaker 03 I'm gonna give you an opportunity, one person. Only go for one person, Jennifer. Don't ever go for the whole audience. Go for one person who happens to be sitting in a thousand seats. Make it intimate. We are missing intimacy. And when you can give them intimacy, truly give them into me, I see. Intimacy. When you can give them a bit of themselves back by listening to you. Intimacy. Into me, I see. Through your words, you become unforgettable.
16:41 Jen Cohen? I would never be able to say that, though. I mean, like, you're so good at this. We have, like, let me talk to you about success for a moment, right? Because obviously, you're very successful in doing what you do. Now, what is your take? Do you believe that people are successful because they have this desire in them? Or do you believe it's just discipline?
17:00 Speaker 03 Wow.
17:02 Speaker 03 Let me, let me make it personal, cuz I.
17:05 Jen Cohen? That's what you do.
17:06 Speaker 03 I, yeah, I know me better than anybody else.
17:08 Jen Cohen? Right.
17:09 Speaker 03 I had a burning desire that was so voracious, it burned down every challenge between me and success. I was willing to burn the ships. I was willing to kill away any behavior in me that didn't align with the woman I chose to become. I was willing to put on hold, on ice, and on pause any relationship that didn't honor the woman that I was midwifing out of me. So desire was, yeah, it was non-negotiable. It felt like the purpose on me was louder than the fear. The purpose on me was louder than the challenges.
17:53 Speaker 03 And I had a lot of challenges, a lot of humiliating moments, a lot of lonely moments. I walked, I walked what felt like alone for years cuz it felt like no one got me. But I realized no one could get me at one time cuz I was still figuring out who I was becoming. So I was always moving between seasons. I was never somewhere, I was never a person that stayed, this is what I'm gonna be for the next 10 years. I knew I was just going through a version of myself. It was the, I've never said it like this before, so it's almost hard to say. There was years where I was, I had associates and I had family always. But I didn't land anywhere for a long time because I was moving. And I wouldn't stop moving until I felt like,
18:38 Speaker 03 okay, okay, all right, I can, I can, I can. And so it was, I think, desire, desire, calling, pulling, force. And I can't say it's born in everybody.
18:51 Jen Cohen? Do you think that, is there, is there any part of your personality that you think is misunderstood?
18:57 Speaker 03 Oh, girl. Uh, I think that I dream, I dream so big and so vast and fast that I don't know if it's misunderstood or that it's just irritating.
19:10 Jen Cohen? Right.
19:12 Speaker 03 Like, yeah, I, I, I think that I could irritate and rub people the wrong way because I'm very grounded. I'm, I always think about the plan, but the, the idea can be so far out that no one can see the how. And here's what I say, don't interrupt my what because you don't know how.
19:30 Jen Cohen? Right.
19:30 Speaker 03 And most people won't sign up for the what, the dream, until they're sure about the how, because they're trying to protect other people's perception of them. We're all in image protection, our brand protection. And so I will sign up for the what. I get fired up on the what. And then I'll go, okay, now how are we gonna get that done?
19:49 Jen Cohen? Right.
19:50 Speaker 03 Most people want the what and the how together, really, really close. And without the immediate how, they discount the what and then I irritate them. And I'm okay with that.
20:00 Jen Cohen? Cause you, you've, like, what is the one quality about you that you think, besides the desire, that is, that makes you so successful?
20:09 Speaker 03 I grind, girl.
20:10 Jen Cohen? You grind.
20:11 Speaker 03 I grind, girl. So that second part of that question, said determination? I'm okay with my failures.
20:17 Jen Cohen? Yeah, discipline.
20:18 Speaker 03 I'm, and, and I'm okay with my failures. I trust me in failure. You gotta hear, this is the thing. I trust me in the biggest breakdown. And these days, my breakdowns require two or three attorneys. Baby, and they seven figures.
20:34 Jen Cohen? Wow.
20:34 Speaker 03 I'm, when I, and I, and I have some going on right now, so.
20:38 Jen Cohen? Tell me.
20:38 Speaker 03 Proof is in the pudding. You know, I literally, my company got like frauded and it's only about a $5 million cleanup. And my attorney said, most companies your size don't recover from this. He said, but something in me thinks you're not like most companies. Really? Yeah. What happened? And he's, well, and the effort to take my company public, the consultant that took my company public was a fraud. So everything that this person touched was negated. So all of my audits, all of my $250,000 audits, all of my, then I had to get re-audited to bring my books back. Then I had to go black on Wall Street so that I couldn't trade, so I cleaned it up.
21:21 Speaker 03 It just was, just, uh, just big and big and ugly. And then the 88 investors, they said, go file bankruptcy and you don't owe anyone. But the 88 investors that had invested pre-public, they weren't people just going after money. They were the people sitting in my audience. They were the students on my campus. And so I had to make a decision that was all about integrity. It wasn't about convenience. And I said, I'm not filing bankruptcy. I'm paying everyone back, not only what they invested, but I'm paying them back their investment plus interest. And it's taken me a long time and I'm not even done yet, but I'm proud of my efforts. I'm proud of my integrity. I can walk with my head up high.
22:03 Speaker 03 And what I'm clear on is my grind, my grind and my intention will get me. Will Smith said it years ago. He said, I stay on the treadmill longer than most. When everyone else is sitting down, you remember that? He did it years ago on the Tavis Smiley Show. I remember that, actually. When everyone's sitting, when you take a nap, I'm still on the treadmill. I'm okay with my failures. And this is what I really would love to impart on you. I trust myself in breakdown. I trust myself when it gets messy. I, there's a sign in my bathroom at home. It says, I trust the next chapter of my life because I know the author. And so I run and leap more than most, not because I can ensure that I'll fly, it's because
22:46 Speaker 03 I'm sure that I'll get back up if I don't. You ask me what's the difference? It's that. So I'll, I'll bet on me. I'm not perfect, but I trust my imperfection. Mm-hmm. And let me just tell you, that came from feeling isolated and ostracized. That came from so much of feeling not enough. And look at the industry. I'm in an industry where there are very few women. Yeah. At my level, and there are even fewer. Women of color. So I had to walk in rooms and not look for confirmation that I was in the right room. I had to bring it in with me.
23:19 Jen Cohen? Mm-hmm.
23:20 Speaker 03 And we've all been there. And so I've done it enough to trust the cells in my body. Not perfect, but I trust my imperfection.
23:28 Jen Cohen? Like, because you started, I don't think we covered this last time. You started with The Secret. Many, how many years ago was this whole thing?
23:35 Speaker 03 Twenty-one, twenty-two years. Two thousand and six.
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24:24 Jen Cohen? pick your favorite, or you can work one-on-one with a designer who is perfectly matched to your project. I've used both approaches, and honestly, the quality has blown me away every single time. From logos to complete branding packages, these designers just get it. And here's what's really setting them apart. They're with you from pitch to perfection, offering creative support every step of the way. So if you're ready to bring your brand vision to life, head to 99designs.com/gen20. That's the number, 99designs.com/gen20, and click Claim My Discount to get $20 off your first design contest.
25:08 Jen Cohen? Your brand deserves this level of creativity. Trust me.
25:17 Speaker 03 So what were you doing before The Secret? Right. How about that? I call it the secret tsunami. Because I did have a whole life before The Secret. I don't even know what it is. Exactly. So I had co-authored two Chicken Soup for the Soul books with Jack Canfield. I did. I did. And my focus was motivating the teen spirit. So I have a teen foundation that teaches emotional literacy and emotional IQ to teens. We're actually on our way to our annual emotional literacy summer camp right now. Really? Yes. I want to come back and ask for donations because we do it all for free. All for free. It's the only summer camp in the United States that teaches emotional literacy in the morning and then in the afternoon you go swimming and hiking and all that good stuff at a summer camp.
26:01 Speaker 03 And we decided, based on the climate of this year, that we waived the entire fee. And it costs $2,200 for a kid to go to summer camp for a week residential. And I just go to my friends and say, can you please help me donate for these kids so we can remove the barrier? And kids of all different statures go. And I teach emotional literacy beside my son. My son is the director of the camp. Really? And that's what I was doing. I've been doing that for 29 years. I never stopped doing it when The Secret came about. How did we get The Secret? Like, how did that happen? Someone heard me speak. Really? When you recognize the doors that you're speaking, canon will open for you. First of all, someone heard me speak at an event and invited me to be a co-author of Chicken Soup for the African-American Soul.
26:46 Speaker 03 That's how I met Jack Canfield. And then Jack Canfield invited me to be a co-author. And then he came to my book signing. And then he heard me speak. And while I'm speaking, I hear him telling Mark Victor Hansen, "I feel like I'm listening to the next Dr. Martin Luther King." I had to act like I didn't even hear him because that just scared the bechibis out of me, girl. I'm in my 30s. My baby is like five. And then he just started opening doors for me. He said, "People need to hear you." My voice kicked open every door for me. I wasn't even a good CEO for years. I mean, I sucked at it. But my voice, the way I spoke, kept saving me.
27:28 Jen Cohen? Wow.
27:29 Speaker 03 So if I, in these last 10 years, before I sit down and just chill with my hubby, I want to give away the superpower to as many people as possible. That's why I'm doing this now. No one knew me for being a speaker coach for years. That's why I'm not out there as this big speaker coach, because I wasn't doing it. It was only because watching it transformed my life.
27:49 Jen Cohen? So, because wait, so then you get this, so he said, how did this, so you got the Chicken Soup For The Soul?
27:54 Speaker 03 He invites me into this private council.
27:57 Jen Cohen? Right, and then they're like, hey, come and be the part of The Secret?
28:00 Speaker 03 He invites me to this private council, exclusive council, where the first meeting was at his house.
28:05 Jen Cohen? Okay.
28:05 Speaker 03 Jack Canfield's house.
28:07 Jen Cohen? Tell people who he is, I don't, just in case people don't know.
28:10 Speaker 03 Jack Canfield's the founder of Chicken Soup For The Soul. He's in the Guinness Book of World's Records as being the only person to have like five or 10 books on the bestsellers list at the same time. He's like, like, this dude is everything, like, to the personal development industry. He just turned 80, he's relaxing now, he's retired, but man, he opened up doors that people don't even know about. So, the first meeting is at his house. The second meeting is at John Gray's house. Men are from Mars, women from Venus. And here's little old me, I'm one of three women, the only person of color, like, oh, I don't know what I'm doing here. And no one knew me there. And everyone's kind of mumbling, like, who is this chick? Who is this chick? And Jack, Jack Canfield said, you guys don't know her, but I think we all want to be as powerful as she is when we open our mouths.
28:54 Speaker 03 And then Rhonda Byrne came, and Rhonda Byrne is the director of The Secret. He asked who in this club, exclusive club, wants to be in The Secret. I didn't raise my hand.
29:04 Jen Cohen? Well, how would you describe what The Secret is, besides the book?
29:08 Speaker 03 Uh, and a phenomenon.
29:10 Jen Cohen? And if, well, it's a huge phenomenon, but it was, is it still very much a phenomenon?
29:15 Speaker 03 I just had a 32-year-old come to me and say, I just watched The Secret. You were 12, you were 10 when The Secret was. That's why I'm curious. No, they're still watching. It'll have another wave. It's gonna have another resurgence. It's gonna have a nut, especially with this generation. For sure. Like, they wanna know, I got it all in my mind, I can control my future. Like, yeah, it's about to research. I think so, too. They put a little juice behind it and it'll just go. Remember, The Secret didn't have a major marketing strategy. They, it went viral because people had secret parties. Secret parties. They were, gather their friends and put on The Secret and have drinks and talk about it. They had, it wasn't in our strategy. That's how it kinda went viral?
29:54 Speaker 03 That's how it did go viral. And then Oprah said, she was asked six times in one day when she was building her school in Afri- South Africa, "Have you seen The Secret? Have you seen The Secret?" She said, "I knew at the end of the day I was gonna do two things, have a glass of wine and watch The Secret." And this was before social media. Right. This was 21 years ago-ish. And so, yeah, it's, it's been, it's phenomenal. And so, when The Secret came out, I stood out again, cuz I told my story. Everyone else, a lot of people, my dear friends, I love them, they gave great content. I told a story. When I tell you, I look back at my career and I can't tell you I had this plan, sis.
30:33 Speaker 03 I can't tell you I was that brilliant to say, "I'mma stand out on every stage. When I go to Mine Valley, when I go here, when I go there." I couldn't have told you that. I just did what I knew how to do. And then I started seeing the track record. I went, "Hold on." And then my friends started saying, "Teach us how to do what you do." And then I had nothing else to prove. I had nothing else to worry about. My, my career was built. I needed, I wanted to no longer be LeBron James or Michael Jordan. I really wanted to be Phil Jackson. Yeah. Their coach. And so, that's where I'm now. So, to answer your question, my stories were scooping the, scooping the audiences. Everywhere I went, people saw themselves in me. But I told the story in such a way that you can fit in my story.
31:16 Jen Cohen? So even like
31:17 Speaker 03 And that can be learned.
31:18 Jen Cohen? It could be learned.
31:19 Speaker 03 Yes, you can. I'm telling you, I'm not done with you. I'm back.
31:23 Jen Cohen? I'm back. I think, I think it's, I think it's really important, like I said, because of everyone's, uh, how the world has changed. Brands, everything, the brands that actually resonate and connect just as people, uh, same as people, have to figure out their connecting point, their story, their storytelling. Like, I think the storytelling skill is probably one of the most important skills you can get right now.
31:48 Speaker 03 When you learn how to walk down your mountain and grab your people and go back up, scoop, scoop, baby, scoop. Scoop, baby, scoop.
31:57 Jen Cohen? But you were obviously very like that talented, I mean, back then, like you were noticed. That's how your whole career became what it is.
32:07 Speaker 03 It was unconscious competence.
32:08 Jen Cohen? Right. So like that, that is, everyone has a gift. This is your gift and now you're sharing your gift. But that, did you ever think back then that the secret, like that, that would have been like this, this, I guess, juggernaut that's now made you into this person?
32:24 Speaker 03 I didn't think I would make it off the editing floor. Cause I was
32:28 Jen Cohen? How many people were in it?
32:29 Speaker 03 Fifty-four people were interviewed and 24 people made it in.
32:33 Jen Cohen? Twenty-four?
32:33 Speaker 03 Twenty-four.
32:34 Jen Cohen? Did everybody have their own specialty or how was it? I don't remember.
32:38 Speaker 03 No, they just interviewed, they just interviewed everyone. I, I didn't even know what the secret was. Can I tell you a secret?
32:43 Jen Cohen? I don't even know the secret either.
32:44 Speaker 03 I didn't know what the secret was. It was the law of attraction.
32:47 Jen Cohen? Well, yeah.
32:47 Speaker 03 And I was, I was raised Baptist. We didn't talk about the law of attraction. We talked about go to church, pray and go home. Like, there was no law of attraction discussed in my house. What made me stand out again was my storytelling. And so when I saw the movie put together, that was the first time I understood what they were talking about. I just answered the questions. That's all I did. I expected to be on the editing room floor. I'm in a conversation with all of these prolific thought leaders. I wasn't a thought leader. I was a single mom. Desperately wanting to transform her life. I was hungry and I was open and I was willing. Everything else was about my impact. So not only did I make it to the 24, but then there was like a standout four.
33:31 Speaker 03 Standout six, you can look back and see. And those of us began to be asked to be interviewed everywhere. A lot of people got interviewed, but then I kept expecting my phone to stop ringing. I was like, I'mma ride this to the wheels fall off. I'm getting called for keynotes everywhere and I just expected, oh, it'll be a year. And a year was three years. Then three years was five years. And I kid you not, my phone didn't stop ringing until probably 18 years later. It slowed down. It never stopped. It slowed down 18 years later, but let me tell you why. Cause every stage I got on, I made it ring three more times. So the stages began to make it ring. It wasn't ringing anymore from the secret. It was ringing from the stage.
34:12 Jen Cohen? It was more, it was basically, it was like a ripple effect.
34:14 Speaker 03 It was a ripple that never stopped rippling.
34:16 Jen Cohen? Yeah, it never stopped rippling.
34:17 Speaker 03 So when my students would ask me, teach us how to sell ourselves on stage. I'm like, I don't know, I would just answer the phone. Be really great. Be so riveting. So what I, the gift I can give you is show you how to be riveting. So the phone will naturally ring. So you don't pursue and hunt. You become a magnet.
34:34 Jen Cohen? Right. How do we become a magnet?
34:36 Speaker 03 You become a magnet by teaching someone something new while inspiring them to stand on their tippy toes. While allowing them to see a piece of themselves in you.
34:47 Jen Cohen? Give me an example.
34:49 Speaker 03 I love it. This is really all for her, you guys. Like, I don't know, I hope, I hope you're getting something.
34:54 Jen Cohen? This is not even gonna be a podcast. This is gonna be my own personal stuff.
34:57 Speaker 03 I'mma listen to this in the bathroom when I'mma make a bomb. Put my eyelashes on and listen to this piece. So.
35:03 Jen Cohen? Oh my God.
35:04 Speaker 03 I know. So you gotta go, but I know, we're so violating this, but this is delicious. So teach people something new.
35:10 Jen Cohen? Yep.
35:11 Speaker 03 That's number one. You got that. That's content.
35:13 Jen Cohen? Yep.
35:13 Speaker 03 Right? Inspire them. So inspire looks like this. It is your birthright to love your body. It's your birthright to land in a peace of mind. It's your birthright to put the best things in your body and nothing else. That's your birthright. You see?
35:33 Jen Cohen? Yes, I see. Good job.
35:36 Speaker 03 Like, you're looking at me like this. Yeah, I'm already married.
35:41 Jen Cohen? Oh my God, you're so cute.
35:43 Speaker 03 All I did, like, take whatever content and then just piece that together.
35:48 Jen Cohen? Yeah, but again, I keep, I have like a broken record. You're just really good at it, period.
35:53 Speaker 03 I am, and you can get really good at it, too.
35:55 Jen Cohen? And so could you, anybody can. I think, I think, I think the truth is, like you said, because it's such an important skillset, even if we can move the needle one or two points.
36:05 Speaker 03 Go from a three to a four.
36:06 Jen Cohen? Yeah, it's better than zero, right?
36:08 Speaker 03 Go from a zero to a one.
36:09 Jen Cohen? Yeah, I, I think that's 100% true.
36:11 Speaker 03 Go from not being afraid to be asked to speak to being okay, that's it.
36:16 Jen Cohen? Yeah.
36:17 Speaker 03 Go from not having an anxiety attack right behind stage, right before you go, or, or, or be afraid to be seen on camera. How many people, and if this is you, comment, you know you got a message in your belly, and yet no one can hear it. I, I must say, with all due respect, I love you, but shame on you. Your message, once you've lived through your story, it's no longer yours. Every lived through story that you have is, belongs to us. We need it. You've already lived through it. You've already gotten stronger. You've already gotten more confident because it, you already know who you are. Now we need it. Why? Because we might be going through that very thing next week.
36:58 Jen Cohen? That's so good.
37:00 Speaker 03 Raise the roof, raise the bar in here.
37:03 Jen Cohen? Wow, good, I love it. I love you. Okay, Lisa, this is, wait, I, I said 20 minutes. It's been like, God knows how long. Okay, I'm, I love you.
37:10 Speaker 03 More to come.
37:11 Jen Cohen? Yeah, I think you're just fantastic. And guys, check out Lisa Nichols for more tips and tricks on how to be the best version of you to like speak your truth.
37:20 Speaker 03 And I'm trying to get you to come and spend three days with me. Come and spend three days with me.
37:23 Jen Cohen? Yes, me or everybody else.
37:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, like, come, like, this is what I do now. Like, I shifted my entire platform to just teach speakers or individuals.
37:33 Jen Cohen? I'm going to try, I'm going to try to come to you.
37:35 Speaker 03 And step on my campus, like, that's all I do. And I have the best coaches. And what I love is that when you see my speaker advocate coaches, now you'll see 17 people and it's not me. Then it becomes real.
37:48 Jen Cohen? I love that. All right, thanks, Lisa.
37:49 Speaker 03 I love you, girl.
37:50 Jen Cohen? Love you, too.
37:51 Speaker 03 More to come.
37:53 Jen Cohen? Bye, everybody.
Previous Episode 478: Why Team Sports Are Non-Negotiable for Building Resilient Kids Next Episode 480: The Pornography Crisis: How We're Accidentally Destroying Our Kids' Ability to Connect Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
