128: How to Gain Confidence. Forgiveness VS Settling The Score. Does Discipline Inhibit Creativity?

0:00:00 - Opening. 0:00:43 - Overtraining. 0:06:20 - Packing a lunch for work. 0:10:39 - Real estate investing. 0:20:41 - Do you ever watch mindless tv or Youtube during down time? 0:22:02 - Using mass punishment on the team. 0:22:52 - Discipline as a creative. 0:26:55 - Dealing with being "lonely at the top." 0:33:31 - The Office reboot. Starring Jocko. 0:36:51 - Seeing kids in bad situations: Effecting parenting. 0:38:13 - How to reduce your boss's anxiety. 0:39:01 - Best way to keep in shape traveling. 0:51:00 - Forgive? Or wait to settle the score? 0:55:11 -To Do List methods. 0:58:23 - Jiu Jitsu safety for a 55 year old female. 1:06:32 - Entering the military when over 30 years old. 1:12:45 - What to do when the boss doesn't make the connection between your work and the teams success? 1:14:08 - What to do for fun while not getting after it. 1:19:36 - Does discipline inhibit creativity? 1:24:47 - Moving on VS Fighting on. 1:32:04 - How to increase confidence. 1:35:28 - Support. 2:06:14 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 128 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:08Jocko Willink?

  It's been a little bit since we've done Q and A, so we're gonna roll into some Q and A and gonna try and answer more questions than normal with some shorter answers. Got a lot of Twitter questions, which necessitates shorter questions and thereby in some cases, shorter answers. I've got a, I've got some more detailed answers or detailed questions stacked up for another Q and A. But for today, we're just gonna try and get through some of these.

• 0:40Jocko Willink?

  No guarantee on that, but let's rock and roll.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  Cool. Jocko, do you believe in overtraining? Do you believe in overtraining? Or is that an excuse people use? You have the C.T. Fletcher's triathletes yourself, etc., who get after it daily. You also find other elite athletes who believe in rest days, who are by no means slackers. What's your take?

• 1:04Jocko Willink?

  You know what? Can you overtrain? Yes, you can.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07Jocko Willink?

  You can definitely overtrain. I will say this, most people don't overtrain. Cause you gotta work pretty hard to overtrain.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14Jocko Willink?

  And if you overtrain, you'll know it if you're paying attention to your performance, because your performance will start to go down. That, that's what's happening. And I've said this before, I've seen it with fighters that were preparing for a fight, and they'd be overtraining and you'd watch their performance. Someone that's normally crushing, let's say the fighter is normally crushing training partner A, and all of a sudden, training of partner A starts getting the better of the fighter. And you know, you know, it's, it's obvious the guy's overtrained. So take a couple of days off, get some steak and get, get back, get, get reset, because you're overtrained. So yeah, you can overtrain for sure. Now, what I don't believe in, well, it's hard to overtrain. I mean, these guys are working hard when they're overtraining, but.

• 2:00Jocko Willink?

  A lot of people just they they do you can use overtraining as an excuse.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04Jocko Willink?

  What I do is I'm gonna do something every day. I I try and do something every day regardless. Like even if even if I feel like I'm complete like last night I got kind of beat up on the mat. I know I'm pretty I'm pretty overtrained right now. But I'm also getting ready to go on a trip. So I'm like, okay, well, I just gonna still I squatted today. And I'm still gonna train hard tonight. And then I got a couple of days where I'll be on the road. I I might take one of those days and just like do more of a stretch. Mobility type scenario work. I'll still get the blood flowing because I gotta get the blood flowing.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  God.

• 2:36Jocko Willink?

  But you know, maybe just like a hundred burpees and then a bunch of stretching. So I'll do a little recovery on the road. But yes, you can overtrain. It's hard to do it. If your performance is going down, you're overtraining. Eat some steak. Take a break. Take a break. Eat some steak.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  Take a break. Bro, a hundred burpees is kind of a lot. I think.

• 2:57Jocko Willink?

  A hundred burpees?

• 2:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:58Jocko Willink?

  No, it's like less than 10 minutes.

• 3:01Speaker 01

  Put it this way, I did. Oh, then again, all the times I did a hundred burpees was after.

• 3:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. Then it feels a little different.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:07Jocko Willink?

  You just go do a hundred burpees.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, that well, the okay. So overtraining, though, is like there's two or maybe even more different kinds of quote unquote overtraining. So there's like this like a for real like I don't know for I'm gonna misuse it a clinical. Version of overtraining, which is like official, like your blood. You can recognize it in your blood. It likes certain things and certain whatever. And there's all these symptoms. There no, it's probably it's a thing. It's an actual thing like you don't sleep. And and it's like your body essentially goes into this like negative kind of feedback or positive feedback loop. Where it's like, but it just you're overtraining and it takes like a while to get out of it. Like a while you gotta go through this process. And then there's also like a condition like rabdo.

• 3:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, rabdo. That's a serious situation.

• 3:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's essentially overtraining.

• 3:59Jocko Willink?

  Yes, that's acute. Overtraining quickly.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, to usually to get hit with the rabdo.

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then there's like this kind of gray area.

• 4:08Jocko Willink?

  And you can get rabdo, I guess you can get, I think, I think you get rabdo in like certain muscle groups.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Oh, for real?

• 4:14Jocko Willink?

  But anyways, rabdo, yeah, that'll take you out.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  I remember Cake Nuts was, we're, we're rolling. Cake Nuts, he's the kind guy who's like just kinda down for anything. Not this kind of likes fireplug type guy, cause he's super mellow, but he's just down for anything. Like the kind where if you're gonna go do something kinda weird, he'll, or whatever, he'll always sorta just be there. You know, he always kinda says yes. So anyway, we're training and he, you know, when someone asks you to roll and you're done, you're like, oh no, done, maybe next time.

• 4:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, not Cake Nuts.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  No, he was like, he was like, okay, does, and you could tell he was like tired. He's like, okay. And then we're all done already. And then you know how certain guys come in late or whatever, maybe one, two guys. And another guy asked him to roll and we're like, dang Cake Nuts is still rolling. And I think he even rolled before us too. And he was just rolling, rolling. He might've did some other PT or whatever.

• 5:00Jocko Willink?

  He did.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  And he's like, man, it's like, man, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty tired right now. And then another guy asked him, well, let's roll. And he's like, okay. And we're just laughing like it was kinda like a joke.

• 5:10Jocko Willink?

  Belt.

• 5:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:11Jocko Willink?

  Which means all these, which means all these rolls are not like

• 5:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:15Jocko Willink?

  relaxed scenarios. They're actual level nine death battles.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's going for it. Yeah, he's a purple belt now, by the way.

• 5:20Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, but yeah, at the time, I think he was white belt and yeah, so he goes in, he's like, man, I'm tired, I'm messed up. And I was like, yeah, man, I dig it. You rolled a lot and sure, and come to find out he had rabdo.

• 5:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  But anyway, go, and then there's a gray area overtraining where you're training a lot, maybe your testosterone will be down from training a lot. And may, you know, your nutrition may or may not be all that kinda thing. So your performance does go down. You feel a little bit more tired going into training, you know, if you're lifting or whatever, you can't lift this heavy and all this stuff. That's like a gray, you're not overtrained though. You just, how you say, just eat a steak and a day, two days later, boom, you're kinda back in the game, you know, kinda thing. But I don't think that's a clinical, technically overtrained. Maybe you're not recovering day to day as much or something like this, but

• 6:05Jocko Willink?

  Cool.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Nonetheless, but all true things, all real things. Hey, your body is this machine, man. If you, you know, with all these different systems, if the systems ain't work all, ain't working right. You may not get, you know, the performance that you, uh, that you want. Next question.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  What would you pack for lunch? If you had a typical nine to five job?

• 6:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, uh, chicken steak, beef jerky, nuts, I don't know, a salad. No, no, no, no big shocker there.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:35Jocko Willink?

  Right? Just don't eat the donuts in the office. Next question.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  No tuna sandwich?

• 6:39Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Tuna sandwich, whole wheat bread, tomato, lettuce, sprouts.

• 6:45Jocko Willink?

  That's your go to?

• 6:46Speaker 01

  No, that's what my mom would probably pack for me if she was packing my lunch.

• 6:52Jocko Willink?

  But people weren't asking what your mom would pack for you for lunch when you were young. That wasn't the quest.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  I know, man, but it kinda sounds.

• 6:58Jocko Willink?

  Do you know what my mom would have packed for me when I was young? PB and J.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  Alright, cool, there it is. That's good.

• 7:04Jocko Willink?

  Bag of potato chips.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Oh, that's not good.

• 7:07Jocko Willink?

  Well, how is PB and J good, but, but potato chips are not good?

• 7:10Speaker 01

  I, I just meant it.

• 7:11Jocko Willink?

  PB and J is the same.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  It tastes good. Actually, but peanut butter is good.

• 7:15Jocko Willink?

  And of course, what I would do is take the potato chips and put them on the.

• 7:17Speaker 01

  Oh, like a psycho.

• 7:18Jocko Willink?

  Peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, like a psycho. All good.

• 7:21Jocko Willink?

  So there you go. You guys know what to eat. Come on. It's rocking off.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  But here, I, I'm sure they're asking because that is kind of a thing, like you have a nine to five job, right? And especially if kind of the culture is like, okay, I go to work and then boom, we go to, we all go to lunch. Me and my boys from work, we go to lunch, maybe a bar, maybe, you know, kinda thing. But they wanna break the cycle. So it's like, you know, the, it's not, it's kinda common analogy, okay, break the cycle, bring your own lunch.

• 7:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, definitely bring your lunch. Not only will you eat better, but you also won't spend nineteen dollars for lunch.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:52Jocko Willink?

  You'll spend, you'll spend like six dollars for lunch and it'll be better for you. So that's just.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, okay, so maybe I should have made that more clear. Don't go out to the little corner store and, or whatever, the corner restaurant and spend twenty eight dollars for crappy food that's gonna make you fat and lazy.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:07Jocko Willink?

  Just pack your own food that costs six dollars that's gonna make you lean, strong and smarter.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, and then therein comes this question, I, I think, I don't know, but I think so. Because let's say you've never done that before.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, sounds crazy, but here's the thing. How's this? So, so Greg Train, right? He always eats tough. And I don't think he ever like cooks at home or whatever, right? And me, I'm kinda, well, I'd kinda do both, whatever, but I cook at home. I go make, I have my go to little things, right? At home, so we're talking and I was explaining to him, oh yeah. Oh yeah, I'll just do this when I'm on the program, I'll do this, I'll make this. And he's like, dang, you, you actually do that, huh? Like cook and make stuff at home.

• 8:47Jocko Willink?

  He's all surprised.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, like he was like this foreign thing for real.

• 8:50Jocko Willink?

  Okay, I'll, I'll give you a go to right now. If you wanna talk go tos, you said tuna. I have tin chicken, like, I don't even know, my wife calls it tin chicken. It comes in a can, yeah. Cause I don't really like fish.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 9:04Jocko Willink?

  And so I have chicken in a can.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 9:06Jocko Willink?

  Open it up, put some mayonnaise in there, you're, you're good.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:10Jocko Willink?

  Food.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I'll do that too.

• 9:11Jocko Willink?

  And you can get big, big cans of chicken.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Go to Costco.

• 9:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's a total go to.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. A lot of sodium, a lot of times in those ones, uh, you know, if you care about those kinds of things, but.

• 9:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, there's a lot of chicken in there too.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  You know what you can do with that too? If you have just a little bit more time, the chicken, the, the one in the can is sweet is good. Cause it's so fast, boom, boom, boom, one speed. But if you, um, you can like, kinda halfway boil some chicken, chop it up, saute it.

• 9:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Right with some stuff, right? And then chop it up even more, boom, add the mayonnaise, it's kinda the same deal. And you can do it that way. You don't need like the canned chicken. Some people do not prefer canned chicken though.

• 9:52Jocko Willink?

  That's cool.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  That's the thing.

• 9:53Jocko Willink?

  They can do other things.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, then that's the other thing I'm talking about. Anyway, so, well, you know.

• 9:59Jocko Willink?

  How does your mom make chicken?

• 10:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, you know.

• 10:01Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  It's like a whole thing. You know how Greg, it was foreign to Greg to actually cook at home? It's foreign for people to actually make a lunch. So they're like, man, where do I start with this thing? What do I do? And then usually, in fact, from what I understand anyway, usually it's kinda like, oh, all, all kinda sort of buy a lunch. While I'm not at work, you know, maybe go to store, buy one of these box lunches or something and then bring it in.

• 10:26Jocko Willink?

  Is that even a thing?

• 10:27Speaker 01

  It's defeating the purpose. Yeah, it's a thing, but it's a defeating the purpose. You make the lunch like a sandwich or something like that.

• 10:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  I'm telling you.

• 10:34Jocko Willink?

  Cool.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  It works. That's the direction you wanna go. That's my opinion. Next question. You've mentioned being involved in real estate. Are you still involved? How'd you get started? Whether flipping or renting, flipping meaning buying.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  Fixing up and selling houses or renting or whatever. Did you start with a lot of money or no? Is it something you are or were very hands on with or contract work out?

• 11:03Jocko Willink?

  I've been real lucky with the whole real estate thing. Part of it's because I was in the military and while the crash happened, I did, I didn't even barely knew there was an economic crash going on. And so, so we're talking 2007, 2008 timeframe when the, the market crashed. And I was in the military, so I just was kept doing what I was doing and bought some houses then and I would say, yeah, and then I've continued to do that. So it's a good, it's a good investment long term. Short term, you can get screwed. If you think you're gonna buy something right now, like for instance, flipping a house, that's cool. You can make a lot of money, but also you could buy right now, buy a house for $200,000 and think you're gonna fix it up and sell it for $300,000.

• 11:48Jocko Willink?

  And then you buy it and the market crashes and now your house that you bought for $200,000 is only worth 150. So now you're, you're out of luck. So you, the way I look at it, you know, just as, as a normal person, yeah, just try and buy a house. That's number one. Try and buy a house to live in and then try and pay it off as fast as you can. And then when you get it to a good point and you fix it up and you think you can rent it out, that's cool. Do it, rent it out and buy another one and keep doing that. One thing, one, I, I, you know, I'm no real estate expert. I'm not running around, but you know, explaining, I'm not gonna put out a

• 12:26Jocko Willink?

  I'm not gonna put out a seminar on proper real estate investing, but hey, if you're gonna buy, buy a house, this is, this is something, a little bit of advice. If you're gonna buy a house, buy a house in the place where you want to live, where you want to live in it. Buy the worst, crappiest house. But where you want it, because the location you cannot change. Once you buy it, you're stuck in that location. And so, but you can always rebuild it and fix it up and make it nice. So buy a house. I made that mistake one time. I bought a house. I bought a bigger house in a place where I didn't really like it, but I thought, oh, the house is so nice and big. And about, it was like two weeks after I bought it. This is actually the first house I ever bought. Two weeks after I bought it.

• 13:07Jocko Willink?

  I was saying, man, I should have bought the other house I was looking at that was in the location I wanted. That was a little bit smaller and not as nice. So anyways, buy it where you want it and then fix it up as you go along. As far as the work, doing the work. All the work that I did on my houses, I did myself and

• 13:26Jocko Willink?

  now I don't do it as much anymore because I don't have time. But when I was in the Navy, well, you either have time or you have money, right?

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 13:32Jocko Willink?

  So when I was in the Navy, I had more time, if you can believe that, when I was in the Navy and I had no money. So like all my houses, when I bought them, I couldn't afford them. I could barely afford them.

• 13:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 13:44Jocko Willink?

  So you gotta be, that's now I'm not advising that because if you gotta be able to suck it up. If things go sideways, you're gonna be living on no money, living lean. It's gonna be a lean Christmas. That's what my parents used to say to me. And that's what I said to my kids. It's gonna be a lean Christmas. So you gotta be ready for the lean Christmas. Some people aren't ready for a lean Christmas.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:05Jocko Willink?

  Some people cannot live, some people cannot control their expenses if things go bad. And you know, when I bought all my, just about every house I bought, when I got into my house, it was like, okay, we made it. Now we're gonna starve for two years or whatever, trying to get everything squared away again. So anyways, you gotta be smart, but it definitely makes more sense to buy. I shouldn't say this because there's some people that argue that. I think if you're gonna live somewhere for a while, buy a house instead of paying someone else's mortgage, pay your own. And try and pay it down as quick as you can. That's it.

• 14:43Jocko Willink?

  It's my advice.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  Cool. Agree, I guess, I don't know. I'm way less of an expert in that.

• 14:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, like, like, here's an idea, when you join the military, save up all your money, don't spend it on booze. Which you're going to, you're gonna want to, because everyone's gonna be going out, don't do that, buy it, buy whatever you can buy, buy a little condo, buy something, and then rent out the rooms that are in it. And you sleep on the couch, and you rent out the rooms and you're paying the mortgage, as soon as you get that thing kind of stable, boom, go and buy another one.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:14Jocko Willink?

  And that's, that's how you, you can start doing it.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  You said that it was easier for you in the mil- because you were in the military, why, why is it easier?

• 15:21Jocko Willink?

  My paycheck was coming no matter what. It wasn't like I was gonna get laid off, I mean, so many people got laid off during the, during the economic downturn.

• 15:28Speaker 01

  Right, right, yeah.

• 15:29Jocko Willink?

  They couldn't buy, they couldn't afford their mortgage payments anymore, and that, that was, made the bad situation even worse.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:34Jocko Willink?

  So for me, it was like, I was just sitting there collecting my paycheck as normal. Didn't even really realize that the market was getting destroyed on all fronts.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:43Jocko Willink?

  Because I was in the military.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:45Jocko Willink?

  And I wasn't sitting around staring at the, at the stock market every day, trying to figure out where it was gonna go.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Right. And do, do you get, I mean, you do, right, you get like, benefits or loans easier, whatever?

• 15:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, there's something called a VA loan, yeah, which, which is a good loan, it's a good loan, and you can only get one, though. So, I mean, I use that, you can reset it and use it on other houses, but, which I've done a couple of times.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  But that's a cool, like, little jumping off point.

• 16:11Jocko Willink?

  It's a really good jumping off, jumping off point.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:14Jocko Willink?

  It's a really good jumping off point, for sure. But, the thing to be careful of is, is speculating, and thinking that the prices of houses is always gonna go up, which is what everyone fought in 2006, 2007, 2008. Hey, don't worry, the prices are just gonna keep going up.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:29Jocko Willink?

  They're not, they're gonna come down sometimes.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:31Jocko Willink?

  And so you can't bank on that. You can't bank on that, what you bank on is like, okay, I like this house, it's in a good location, I'm gonna live here for a long time. If I get stuck in it for a long time, I don't mad, my mind, I won't be mad. And I can suffer.

• 16:48Jocko Willink?

  Okay, I can make my family suffer. Okay. Like, you know, when you can't take your, your family out for dinner? For months on end, like, oh no, sorry, we're not going out for dinner.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:59Jocko Willink?

  Oh, no, we're not doing that. We're not buying that. Buying your kids used stuff for Christmas? Which I did when I was in military, okay, you know, I'd love to get you something new, but guess what? Sometimes Santa Claus brings some.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, some recycled.

• 17:12Jocko Willink?

  Some recycled goods, you know, some other kids didn't want it. That's fine. If you, if you don't have that in you to suck it up.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:19Jocko Willink?

  And, and live lean, then you, you don't, then you need to make different decisions.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz, cuz a lot of times I know it was, it was like this in like, oh, seven, oh, six, maybe, um, where guys, like, I remember seeing people, they'd, like, a lot of people were just becoming loan officers.

• 17:37Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  Like flipping houses, you know, kinda thing, and it's kinda, oh, they look at it as like this get rich quick kinda thing. And then they're like, yeah, let me just do it. It's easy, no experience, necessary, all this stuff. And then they'll do it all uneducated, all like with none of what you just said, none of that, and.

• 17:52Jocko Willink?

  Well, I got a buddy that he, he was telling me the story cuz he was in the SEAL teams. And during that market boom, during the housing market boom, he bought like five houses.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:04Jocko Willink?

  And he, he, it's so funny to hear, he was a humble guy, and he's telling, telling me the story. It's ten years ago, he was telling me the story, but he's like, he's like, yeah, when I was doing this, I thought everyone else was so stupid. I thought I was just the smartest guy in the world cuz what he was doing was getting these loans that he couldn't afford, but at that time, the, the mortgage people were giving loans to anybody.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:28Jocko Willink?

  And he did it, and he did it over and over, and so he ended up with five houses. And he said he remembered asking another real estate guy, like, hey, what if? What if the housing prices go down?

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:39Jocko Willink?

  And, and, you know, the guy's like, that's not gonna happen, and if it does, even if it did happen, you'd have six months to a year to offload all your properties and it'd be, it's no problem. Within a month of that, the market turned, and he said thirty days later, every one of his properties was upside down, meaning he owed more than they were worth in thirty days. And he ended up foreclosing on all those houses except for one, he was lucky enough to keep the one that he lived in.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:06Jocko Willink?

  Anyway, so, yeah, don't, you know, be measured, it's balance, don't just get crazy.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it's not like this get rich.

• 19:13Jocko Willink?

  Like the risks I would take. was the risk of, okay, if things don't go well, it's gonna be a lean Christmas. And I'm okay with that. If you're not okay with a lean Christmas and a lean and not going out for dinner and buying your kids used presents for Christmas, if you're not okay with that, you know, what do you want for your birthday? Oh, you wanna, you want something for your birthday? Cool. I'll get you something that resembles that, but it might not be the act. If you're not okay with that, then, then don't do it. I never would gamble the fact that, okay, if this goes wrong, we won't have anywhere to live. That's a different, that's a different level gamble. And I didn't gamble that. I didn't gamble like, okay, if I, if the market goes sideways, I'm not gonna have a place to live.

• 19:55Jocko Willink?

  I didn't gamble that. If the market goes sideways, hey, it's gonna be a lean Christmas.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And even you, like by your own admission, you said, I'd, you know, I'd do it where I'd live lean kinda thing. Like, you don't have to do it that way. Like, you can be set way more, you know, padding for yourself.

• 20:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but no risk, no reward.

• 20:16Jocko Willink?

  But don't risk everything. Be smart, be calculated. So yeah, buy something, buy something when you're young, hang on to it, rent it out. Buy something else, hang on to it, rent it out. That's a good plan. It's a good long-term plan.

• 20:30Jocko Willink?

  Long-term plan.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Long-term.

• 20:32Jocko Willink?

  Cause the market goes up and down.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's probably good advice most of the time anyway. Long-term. Think long-term.

• 20:39Jocko Willink?

  Think long-term.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  That's what they said.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Downtime. Do you ever watch mindless TV? I asked you this question before. Do you ever watch mindless TV or YouTube videos to decompress at the end of the day? Or is that laziness justifying wasted time?

• 20:54Jocko Willink?

  You know, quite frankly, I don't have a lot of free time to do that. Even if I was all fired up to watch a mindless video on YouTube. Uh, so I guess,

• 21:06Jocko Willink?

  I guess not really. If I'm gonna decompress, sometimes.

• 21:13Jocko Willink?

  I mean, sometimes my kids will want to watch something and I'll sit there and watch an episode of whatever. So they can go watch an episode of The Office or something like that.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's kinda good. Kinda mindless, kinda funny.

• 21:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's uh, that makes sense. Same, same deal, I think. Probably used to, you know, of course I watched my Hawaii Five-O, that's a good one. Kinda mindless, I guess.

• 21:35Jocko Willink?

  I can tell you this, I've watched zero, I would, if, if they put it on screen right now, I wouldn't even know what it was. Leif, we, we went, we were in the hotel gym the other day. Leif's like, "Check it out." And he points to TV, I'm like, "What?" And he's like, "That's Hawaii Five-O." I didn't even know what he was talking about.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, he took a picture of it.

• 21:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he took a picture of it. He said he felt your presence.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's good. That would've fired me up. Best workout in the world right there. Hawaii Five-O workout, boom.

• 21:59Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 22:02Speaker 01

  Next question. I'm a high school football coach. When you were in charge of training, at what point did you use mass punishment?

• 22:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, mass punishment. That's basically when the team's not working together.

• 22:14Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 22:15Jocko Willink?

  Right? When the team's not working together, and that can take all kinds of forms, right? But if they're, if they're not working together, they're gonna get punished together. If they're blaming each other, they're gonna get punished together. If they're not supporting each other, they're gonna get punished together. One thing that I think where the gray area is, is if you have an individual that's making mistakes, having problems, not performing correctly, and then the team, whose responsibility is it to get that person up to speed? It's the team's responsibility. So if that person continually has a problem, it's like, hey, if the team doesn't take care of that problem, then the team has to, has to pay.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, makes sense, man. Next question. Instilling and maintaining discipline in subjective career fields such as becoming a musician, artist, etc. How do you face the obstacles thrown at you when you're subjected to people's opinions to make a living and not the standard? Do your job type, type of lifestyles?

• 23:14Jocko Willink?

  This, this, this question, I'm not sure if I have an answer that people are gonna wanna hear on this one. I think, first of all, I originally thought like, okay, this is about discipline and you need discipline to get good at craft. Cause that's for sure, right? If you wanna get good at music or art or whatever, you gotta, you gotta have the discipline to practice it. But that's not really what the question's about. The question's about how do you survive? And how do you deal with it when people are, might not like what you make? And from my perspective, I, I think you should do things like art and music because you really love doing them and not to make money.

• 23:58Jocko Willink?

  And I think, I think if you do those things truthfully from the heart, then it will strike a chord with other people in many, many cases. Cause human beings have, whatever, human nature is all kind of the same. And so if you do something, then people will like it and then you will end up with people that like your work. If, if you're doing art or music or whatever to make money, if that's your goal, well, then it's gonna be subjective and that's gonna be problematic because people might, might not like what you're doing. And so then what you do, you change it a little bit, then you change it a little bit and you change a little bit. So I don't know. To me, it's like, I would rather have another job that makes me money.

• 24:44Jocko Willink?

  So I can get by, so that I can do what I want artistically, if that makes sense. Uh, I actually had a guy the other day that was like saying, you get up early, but different people that are artistic, they have to have a different path. Because they, you know, if someone's gonna, gonna make music or they're gonna, they're gonna draw or paint or they're gonna write, they need to have freedom. I was like, well, I've, I'm kinda written some books and, and I play music in a band. And we make rock and roll, you know what I mean?

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 25:21Jocko Willink?

  I didn't get all crazy with the guy. I was like, no, I'm an artist too. I just was like, hey, man, you know, if you wanna, you do what you want, man.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:30Jocko Willink?

  I'm not here to help you out, but that's kinda like, like, like doing the podcast. Like, the podcast isn't like, oh, well, we need to do this so that we can get more people to listen, so that we can get more money. It's, no, actually, if you don't wanna listen to this, don't listen, and we don't, we're beholden to no one.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:44Jocko Willink?

  No advertiser's gonna pull their advertising from us, cuz we don't have any.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 25:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so we can do what we want.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:53Jocko Willink?

  And not be worried about what other people think. And I think when you do that, here's the, here's the, here's the, the, where the thread ties back in. I think if you're doing what you want, and you're creating what you want from the heart, truthfully, when it gets out there, people will, people will get into it.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Next question. How can I introduce my female boss to the extreme ownership way without being offensive? Just sell it as improvement?

• 26:19Jocko Willink?

  I've given this answer before, give the book to her, and tell her that you read this book, and you really like it, and you wanna become a better leader. And if she could read it and keep you in check, if she sees you getting out of line, she, you'd appreciate it. And then just let her read it.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:37Jocko Willink?

  Then let the, let the book work.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  It was funny, you guys were talking about this at the muster. I think late, maybe you said it, maybe they said, I don't know, but you were like, I'll tell you how you don't do it.

• 26:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Throw the book at her and say, you need to square yourself away, read this book, you know?

• 26:50Jocko Willink?

  Of course, don't do that.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  That was funny.

• 26:52Jocko Willink?

  Not good.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Next question. Do you experience loneliness while at the top? It's lonely at the top, you ever heard that expression?

• 27:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's lonely at the top. If so, how did you handle it?

• 27:06Jocko Willink?

  You know, actually, not really. And I guess, from, from my perspective, I look at the top being when I was in leadership position, while I was a platoon commander, or a tasking a commander, or the commander of the, the training detachment. Was it lonely at the top? Not really, man, I had friends and people that I hung out with, and people that I would trust to talk and have conversations with. And so that wasn't really a factor, and then on top of that, I actually don't really mind being alone. It's not a big deal to me, I don't feel lonely when I'm by myself, I'm, I'm fine.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:37Jocko Willink?

  Somebody asked me the other day. Are you an introvert or an extrovert?

• 27:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:41Jocko Willink?

  And I was like, mom, probably both. And they're like, no, no, but you have to be one, of course, cuz.

• 27:44Speaker 01

  Right, right. They said so. The test or whatever. Yeah.

• 27:47Jocko Willink?

  And I, and I said, um, I said, well, I don't care. I, I literally don't care. Like, it's, if I'm in a room with a bunch of people, okay, if I'm in a room with, by myself, don't care. Whatever. Bring it.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:59Jocko Willink?

  No big deal.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think the extrovert, if I'm not mistaken, like, li- like, has a need, you know, like, he's, they're, they're like, attracted to, you know, other people being there and.

• 28:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so I guess that's what I said. I'm like, yeah, that's fine. Whatever. Don't care.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:15Jocko Willink?

  Alone. So, so, yeah. You know, and I always, like I said, I had friends that I trusted and weren't, weren't like, were good enough friends that they weren't gonna be trying to

• 28:30Jocko Willink?

  get their own gain out of being my friend, you know, and people that were friends with me before I was in a leadership position and people that remained friends after, so.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's not, not that big of a deal to me. You know, luck, I guess I'm lucky, cuz I mean, it must be a thing if everyone says it.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I guess maybe in.

• 28:47Jocko Willink?

  Like, I'll tell you what, you, do you, do you work? I'll tell you, this, this is, you, when you, when you're at, when you're at the top, when you're an owner or you're the leader, there's times where you have to do things by yourself.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:59Jocko Willink?

  There's no doubt about that.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:00Jocko Willink?

  And if you have a problem with that, you, you're gonna have a problem being in a leadership position. Cuz there's things that you have to do as a leader. You have to lead from the front.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:07Jocko Willink?

  You have to work harder. You have to do extra.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:10Jocko Willink?

  You, you should be working harder than everyone else when you're in a leadership position of an organization.

• 29:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 29:13Jocko Willink?

  No doubt about it. And if you're not, eh, working harder, that's not good. And if you're, if you're working harder, there's gonna be times when you're not with anyone else. And you have to be okay with that. And I'm perfectly okay with that. Don't care.

• 29:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's actually what, when, that's what that expression means, it's lonely at the top, meaning like, you're at the top because you're willing to, in a general way of putting it, behave or be a certain way that other people either can't or won't, right? So, you're not gonna be able to relate.

• 29:42Jocko Willink?

  From that perspective, you're definitely lonely at the top.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:44Jocko Willink?

  There's no one that's gonna sit there and do what I'm willing to do.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  That, yeah.

• 29:48Jocko Willink?

  To be there.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:50Jocko Willink?

  Like, where are you at? I don't know. Haven't seen you, but I'm up here by myself and I'm gonna keep getting after it, right? That's kind of the way.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:56Jocko Willink?

  That's how people end up in those positions.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:58Jocko Willink?

  You don't end up in those positions. You don't get gifted positions. You don't just get, end up, I shouldn't say never, but I didn't.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure. Yeah.

• 30:06Jocko Willink?

  Had to grind it out.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:08Jocko Willink?

  Keep grinding it out.

• 30:10Speaker 01

  I think, yeah, you know what, thinking about this question, I think this, what you said doesn't surprise me at all. Cause you, as a human being, I think we all kinda, maybe sometimes we do, sometimes we don't admit that it is good and nice to have like someone there kinda supporting you in this way where, where,

• 30:31Speaker 01

  where you kinda feel like, oh, your feelings matter kinda thing. Yeah, it sounds super soft, but it's like kinda deep down inside where like, let's say, you know how like, you know the,

• 30:39Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  No, listen, listen. So you know the idea that like people just don't understand? You know that concept?

• 30:46Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 30:46Speaker 01

  People just don't get it. They don't understand or whatever.

• 30:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 30:48Speaker 01

  So when you go to the top, that feeling is everyone, everywhere. The people just don't understand.

• 30:54Jocko Willink?

  This is the difference. I don't look at people in the negative light because they don't get it. I'm fine with it.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:59Jocko Willink?

  Like I recognize that what I'm, I recognize that I'm not a hundred percent normal.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:05Jocko Willink?

  And I'm, I'm not.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:06Jocko Willink?

  It's not, I don't look down.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 31:10Jocko Willink?

  I actually, I said this, when I just get interviewed. Oh, I got interviewed on a Business Insider by, and, and he's like, well, do you always keep your discipline? I was like, no, people get out of the SEAL teams and they get fat and they don't care anymore. And it's like, I don't, I don't care about that. I'm stoked. You know, that means they're stoked and eating breakfast in bed and they're hanging out with their kids. It's all good. I don't, I don't have a negative opinion of them. It's like, I don't have a negative opinion of someone that prioritizes things differently than me. It's fine.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:37Jocko Willink?

  It's perfectly fine.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:38Jocko Willink?

  I get it.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  That, that's my point.

• 31:40Jocko Willink?

  And I'm okay, yeah, I'm okay with that. And I'm not looking around going, wow, I wish I had more people to hang out with. It's lonely up here.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  That's exactly what lonely at the top is though.

• 31:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. And there was a, there was, when I was in my first SEAL platoon, we went to Guam. And when we got there, there was a guy, and I don't even know who did it. I don't know where this, I don't know who this was, but there was a SEAL that left like a, a surf ski. You know what that is? It's basically like a kayak that you sit on top of anyways and there's a little, a little, a little note to himself. It said the higher the fewer.

• 32:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:11Jocko Willink?

  Meaning like, hey, when you, because he was training hard for it. I don't know who he was. Said the higher, the higher the fewer. So that's the same thing.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:18Jocko Willink?

  I have an issue with it.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, okay. Makes sense. Yeah, man. So like, you know, when you're in the office working.

• 32:24Jocko Willink?

  You know, that's what I tell kids too, because that's a whole bullying thing is people, kids, kids get the feeling that being alone is bad. Like being alone is not a bad thing. You should be comfortable being alone.

• 32:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. And as a normal human being, it's, I think, for the most part, okay, being alone is one thing, but being alone with no choice is another. So like, if you, you know, you're at the office because you just grind all day. You're at the top, still only at the top, whatever. You're in the office, you're working, everyone else is out at, uh, you know, Thanksgiving, whatever. But you're working because you got to work. You're at the top, you're still the man, but you're working, you know, kind of thing. Some people, not you, some people will be like, man, you know, like I'm in this top position, but I give up like all these.

• 33:10Jocko Willink?

  You definitely give up.

• 33:11Speaker 01

  Things, you know, and yeah, exactly right. But again, you say you're okay with it. I get it, of course.

• 33:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And if it gets to a point where I'm not okay with it, then I adjust the balance.

• 33:20Speaker 01

  There you go. Okay. That's how you deal with it.

• 33:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. But you gotta be playing the long-term game.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:27Jocko Willink?

  Not the short-term gratification.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:31Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 33:32Speaker 01

  Let's question. Would you ever consider being in the reboot of The Office? Oh, you mentioned The Office.

• 33:41Jocko Willink?

  That's why I mentioned it. I had read the questions earlier, but it was kind of in my head.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Layers. Do you like Dwight Schrute the best? Schrute, is that right? Schrute?

• 33:53Jocko Willink?

  Dwight Schrute? What's wrong with you? Schrute Farms. Yeah. Uh, The Office is a great show. And my kids are obsessed with The Office for some reason. So I watch The Office sometimes with them. There's a British version of The Office and I actually prefer the British version of The Office.

• 34:11Jocko Willink?

  I guess because it's just my personality, but the British version of the office is kinda depressing.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  No.

• 34:16Jocko Willink?

  It's funny, but it's kinda depressing because the American one goes over the top. The characters are over the top. They're in extreme.

• 34:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:25Jocko Willink?

  So they're funny.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:26Jocko Willink?

  You go, oh, that's funny for, for the boss to have that attitude. It's a caricature.

• 34:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:33Jocko Willink?

  The British one is toned back just enough that it's more realistic.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 34:39Jocko Willink?

  And it's, it's a little bit depressing.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 34:42Jocko Willink?

  And that's what my kid, I told my kids, you gotta watch the British one. The British one is much better. And my kids watching like, I don't wanna watch that. It's depressing. So yeah, that's great. And Dwight Schrute is an awesome character. Yes, because it kinda because everyone knows a Dwight Schrute.

• 34:57Speaker 01

  Who's Dwight Schrute?

• 34:58Jocko Willink?

  Oh, he's a character in the office.

• 35:00Speaker 01

  Which one though? I mean, I've seen it and stuff, but I don't know the names of the guys.

• 35:04Jocko Willink?

  He's a guy with glasses.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, yeah.

• 35:07Jocko Willink?

  Self-defense and.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Super dorky. Yeah, yeah.

• 35:11Jocko Willink?

  So anyway.

• 35:11Speaker 01

  That's Dwight Schrute. So you would be in it. They're like reboot of the office. Hey, Jocko, we want you to be Dwight Schrute or whoever.

• 35:20Jocko Willink?

  I could be, yeah.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  What's the main guy's name? Michael, right? The character I mean?

• 35:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the boss.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, Michael.

• 35:26Jocko Willink?

  Actually, what's funny is when you watch that show, you can see leadership issues.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're glaring to you.

• 35:32Jocko Willink?

  You see the glaring leadership issues.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:33Jocko Willink?

  It's a good little, good little lessons learned for leadership in there.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure. So who do you be? Who's your choice? Hey, Jocko.

• 35:40Jocko Willink?

  Oh, oh, I'd have to be one of the people that are in there?

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, this is, well, reboot.

• 35:43Jocko Willink?

  Actually, that would be cool is be a super hardcore version of Dwight Schrute.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  Like a legit.

• 35:49Jocko Willink?

  Super hardcore version of Dwight Schrute. That'd be pretty funny.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  Well, isn't the whole like comic genius behind the character of Dwight Schrute is that he's so dorky? Like a Napoleon Dynamite type guy, right? Like he's like so dorky, but he's like.

• 36:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's, be a super hardcore Dwight Schrute.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  So you could be super hardcore, but it'd be inverse. You'd be, you'd be just dorky. Like you're dorky. You know how Dwight Schrute is trying to sell his hardcoreness, but he's just dorky?

• 36:13Jocko Willink?

  If you take any character to the extreme, it can be funny.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, so in your case.

• 36:17Jocko Willink?

  Actually, if you, if you like, when I'm on Twitter, I take my character.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 36:21Jocko Willink?

  You know, where someone says, what's, what's a good dessert? Steak, right? Just having fun.

• 36:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:27Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 36:28Speaker 01

  You're like that through text message too, by the way, just so everyone knows. So yeah, so your character is hardcore, underlying hardcore, that's like the known thing when, but then you're trying to be all, I don't know, like smart or something like, you know, like a, like a studious.

• 36:42Jocko Willink?

  This is for the.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  The reboot, man. Yeah, yeah.

• 36:45Jocko Willink?

  I'm not worried about it.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  No, no, man, that's how it is.

• 36:48Jocko Willink?

  Don't mess with the classic.

• 36:49Speaker 01

  Well, huh. Alright, next question. Has seeing kids in hellholes ever made parenting harder for you?

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Living or not living, kids.

• 37:02Jocko Willink?

  Not really. Uh, when I, when I was overseas and you'd see kids in horrible situations, it just makes you appreciate the opportunity that you have to provide for your kids and to try and help those kids as much as you can. So I don't think it made parenting harder for me.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

• 37:22Jocko Willink?

  Makes you appreciative of the opportunities that we have, for sure.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel like I know that question where,

• 37:30Speaker 01

  yeah, when I, if I see like kids in hellholes, it, uh, it doesn't make it harder, but it makes it like, you're more sensitive, you know, like it, stuff just affects you more with your kids. I don't know, in my experience, that's what happens. Cause you kinda can't.

• 37:45Jocko Willink?

  You can be that way.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  Like it messes you up when you see like, like my wife will read like, uh, trafficking, like human trafficking articles and stuff. And you see, whether it be pictures or video, whatever, and so it kinda leaves a mark in your brain. So I don't know, maybe you're just playing everyday kind of stuff and you see your kid and you're like, dang, you can't help but remember those pictures and do a comparison.

• 38:06Jocko Willink?

  Oh yeah, and well, that's, that'll make you paranoid too, in a good way, in a positive way. You gotta be careful with your kids. There's evil people out there, for sure.

• 38:15Speaker 01

  Next question. How do you reduce your boss's anxiety levels?

• 38:21Jocko Willink?

  Do a really good job. You know what I mean? Stay ahead of the power curve, do a really good job, keep them informed, and kick ass. And that's how you relieve your boss's anxiety. Step up.

• 38:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  That's that's good advice for your wife too, by the way.

• 38:40Jocko Willink?

  Relieving your wife's anxiety levels? Yeah, for sure.

• 38:43Speaker 01

  Take lead, right? Not lead like, oh, you know, call all the shots necessarily, but you know, if if if you guys are trying to figure out where to go for dinner, boom.

• 38:53Jocko Willink?

  Call it.

• 38:54Speaker 01

  Call it, man. Don't be like, oh, whatever you want. Don't do that. Don't create the leadership void. Don't do that.

• 39:02Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 39:02Speaker 01

  I learned that from you, by the way. Next question. Trying to keep in shape while traveling long term and not use not having gym access as an excuse for letting my standards slip. Best pieces of kit training styles for maintaining conditioning and adding mass while living out of the backpack.

• 39:21Jocko Willink?

  Get rings.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:23Jocko Willink?

  Get rings, get gymnastics, wood gymnastic rings.

• 39:25Speaker 01

  Why wood?

• 39:26Jocko Willink?

  Because plastic or metal will make you you get sweaty and slip and you have to bring a ton of chalk. You need a little bit of chalk with wood rings. It's a little more absorbent. There's the best thing to grab onto. So yeah, get wood gymnastic rings. You can carry them anywhere. And then just do a bunch of calisthenics. I mean, come on, man. Just.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 39:42Jocko Willink?

  What?

• 39:42Speaker 01

  Adding mass. How how do you add mass to cancel? Oh, you gotta get creative.

• 39:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you gotta get creative, but it's, you know, instead of doing squats, you know, air squats, do jump squats. So you're doing something dynamic.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  You're one leg.

• 39:55Jocko Willink?

  Plyometrics. Yeah, do one-legged pistols. Yeah, all that stuff.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's the I gotta do that right now. Like, I can't.

• 40:03Jocko Willink?

  You can't.

• 40:03Speaker 01

  They drilled a hole in my, this is called the ulna. So they drilled a hole and they attached the tendon, not in the hole, they go, they push the tendon through the hole. They put an anchor at the end of it. Boom. Anyway, a lot of swelling in the forearm. You can't grab nothing. You can't grab anything and have weight. You know, so calisthenics, you gotta kind of make your your wrists in a position and like a comfortable position and you can do calisthenics. Anyway, point there is I'm in that boat where lifting weights is not an option at this very moment for me. So you gotta kind of get creative. So like a push-up. You can make the pushups harder if you put your feet up and the higher you put your feet,

• 40:46Speaker 01

  you know, the harder it becomes, or you do like a one arm pushup situation. And then you can do like a decline, like, um, you know, you go on a counter first, right? Okay, how many of these one arm pushups? You can do more than 20, okay, maybe you go for like a chair or something like this, something, something, uh, shorter. Boom, you can do more than 20 of those, okay, now I can go to the ground. See what I'm saying? And then you can go raise your feet up as, as time goes on, boom, there you go. Good for, and actually body weight through space is the best way to build size, um, in your muscles there. As far as like exercises go.

• 41:21Jocko Willink?

  That's good information.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  It is.

• 41:23Jocko Willink?

  Better than deadlifting and squatting?

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Well, okay, so that deadlifting, squatting, that's gonna be,

• 41:30Speaker 01

  it's gonna depend on the weight, but think about this, deadlifting and squatting is moving your body through space. So, do an air squat, you're moving your body through space, as opposed to-

• 41:42Jocko Willink?

  No, I meant squatting with weight.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 41:44Jocko Willink?

  I'm talking back squat.

• 41:45Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 41:45Jocko Willink?

  Front squat.

• 41:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Getting fucking heavy with fucking squats, yeah. But, again, like I said, moving your body through space is the, are the best exercises for mass-

• 41:59Jocko Willink?

  What is, what is not moving your body through space?

• 42:01Speaker 01

  Like, okay, a squat compared to a leg press. So if you go leg press-

• 42:04Jocko Willink?

  Well, I haven't even, those aren't even in my, those aren't even in my mind.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  I know, bro, but this guy asking the question, it might be. Well, I'm trying to help him out, I don't wanna help you out, you got the whole exercise thing figured out, I get it. You know, you're an expert in your boring workouts. Talk about that later. Nonetheless, body weights, or body, moving your body through space is the best exercise. The problem is, or tends to be, that your body has a fixed amount of weight, more or less. So you can't adjust the weight, and usually you can move your body through space a bunch of times. If you do air squats, you can do a bunch of air squats. So it doesn't provide the quote unquote tension that you need to build mass. That's why you go one at a time, create more tension on your muscles while still moving your body through space, which could wind up to be a better exercise for you.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying. That's good advice.

• 42:56Jocko Willink?

  Okay, man.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Whatever, Brad, don't act like it's crazy that I'm saying this stuff. That's the question.

• 43:00Jocko Willink?

  You really threw me for a loop with this whole moving your body through space thing.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's additional information.

• 43:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I just have no idea what that, I, I kinda get it now.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:10Jocko Willink?

  But you were saying it as if it was some unknown.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  It is unknown.

• 43:17Jocko Willink?

  Moving your body through space.

• 43:18Speaker 01

  Okay, so you know what a hammer strength machine is? Okay, so it's all, you know, it's like, it's like, I don't know, like a lever kinda thing technically. It's like, you know, you put some plates on it, you push it, there's no pulley or nothing, but you know.

• 43:30Jocko Willink?

  You're not moving your body through space.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  You're not moving your body through space, so I'm, I'm, I'm kinda creating the spectrum here. So could just consider that, then it's kinda far down. There's other movement or things that are further down the spectrum, but that's fixed movement. There's no balance required, there's no whatever, it's just like, you're just pushing weight.

• 43:46Jocko Willink?

  It's isolation movements, right?

• 43:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, plane, the plane is isolated, all this stuff, the plane of movement.

• 43:51Jocko Willink?

  Cool.

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Right, so that will have less neuromuscular activity when you push it, even if you're pushing heavy weights, than something like graduate to like a barbell bench press, right, for example. But even that, even though you do have to balance, so that's a big step up. But even that, you don't have to balance in certain planes. Certain planes of movement, you don't have to balance. Like the, what do you call this one? Lateral, whatever. The lateral movement in a barbell bench press, whi- which is the bar, you don't have to balance, it's fixed. But, front and back, or forward and, forward and back, whatever, you do have to balance, so you know, still good. Now go to dumbbells. Now you have three hundred sixty degree plane of

• 44:35Speaker 01

  mov- movement that you have to balance, more neuromuscular activity. So dumbbells are better than barbells in that way, neuromuscular activity. And you can adjust the weight, so you can do things where you can only do three reps, you can do things, you can do twenty reps if you want. So, boom, great exercise. Can't really do it in a hotel room, but just saying, generally speaking, good exercise. But, now you go, the tip top, the best exercise for neuromuscular activity would be pushups. Because, same thing, you're moving your body through space, you're not balancing weight.

• 45:05Jocko Willink?

  What about pushups on rings?

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Boom, okay, even better. Now you're going like creative, which is good, that's like beyond the spectrum, which is good, totally good. But so yeah, keep these things in mind, I think, when you, when you do a thing. So if you can add, or when you do workout, so when you, if you can add weight, that's the challenge. If you can add weight to these moving your body through space exercises, that's when you're gonna get.

• 45:28Jocko Willink?

  Well, I think now I'm just gonna take this one step further.

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Do it.

• 45:32Jocko Willink?

  Cause you don't necessarily have to add weight. As you stated earlier, you can adjust how you're moving your body through space.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 45:41Jocko Willink?

  And then you can get the, you can get additional, and I'll tell you what really makes this obvious is if you do any gymnastics training. If you do a pull up, that's hard. If you do a tuck pull up where your knees are pulled up, that's even harder. If you do a L sit pull up where your knees are up but your feet are pointed straight forward, that's even harder. Each one of those things is a little bit harder. Same thing with a dip, like just a regular dip. If you let your feet hang, it's easier. If you bring it up to a tuck, it's a little harder. If you bring it up to an L, it's even harder. So you can keep doing these things. And there's squats that you can do, I mean, just doing pistols alone, that's a lot harder. Some people can't even do pistols.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:27Jocko Willink?

  And so you might have to do an assisted pistol to start off.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:30Jocko Willink?

  So yeah, you can make it happen.

• 46:31Speaker 01

  Pistols got a hard man, especially if you've never done it before, pistol's hard because the balance.

• 46:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, there's a balance.

• 46:36Speaker 01

  Back and side to side balance, it's hard.

• 46:39Jocko Willink?

  Three hundred and sixty degree plane of balancing. That's what this whole thing's about, moving your body through space. Is that what it is?

• 46:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, moving your body through space.

• 46:47Jocko Willink?

  Where'd you read that?

• 46:48Speaker 01

  Uh, old school Bulgarian phil- philosophy workout program called, this is the old school, never deviated from it much, the core. Really good too, by the way. Um, it's called, oh, what is it called?

• 47:03Jocko Willink?

  I remember.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  Serious Growth is what it's called, weird, right? Like, that's such a lame name, but man, I was in high school and I was like, alright, you know, you read all these things, right? And you know, in the back of the, uh, you know, Muscle Magazine or whatever, and the little article.

• 47:17Jocko Willink?

  I remember all the Bulgarian. It was kinda like, uh, that was a big thing.

• 47:23Speaker 01

  No kidding.

• 47:23Jocko Willink?

  The Bulgarian, well, yeah, because the Bulgarians were doing really good at weightlifting.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. At the time. No one knew. It was weird. And these guys were like, yeah, five weeks or four weeks, my bench went up to this. And you know, when you're in high school, bench, heck yeah, I'll get that or whatever. So you get the Provenance's book. It's just called Serious Growth and it explains everything really in detail too. I was like, dang, this is pretty good. Real plain English too, not all this real science or whatever. And maybe there's, and they were doing keto too, by the way.

• 47:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  That's where I learned about keto. This is ninety.

• 47:52Jocko Willink?

  That's crazy, isn't it? It's been around for a long time.

• 47:55Speaker 01

  Ninety-four, ninety-five.

• 47:55Jocko Willink?

  Well, the Atkins book came out in the sixties or seventies.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's way different though.

• 48:00Jocko Willink?

  It's not, it's not way different.

• 48:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:02Jocko Willink?

  It's different. It's not way different.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, this guy.

• 48:04Jocko Willink?

  That stuff's been around for a long time.

• 48:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, Dr. Mario or Mauro de Pasqual.

• 48:09Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  That's who was the keto guy. And again, back in ninety-four.

• 48:14Jocko Willink?

  He's still around.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, no kidding. So, yeah, so we did this thing, we get this book and it's like laying it out and, you know, I'm down. I'm fifteen, sixteen years old. I'm down to lift five days a week. Let's do this. And bro, we did it and you eat good. Not like crazy. I didn't do the keto, never did. But, you know, they have it as an option. And so we did it or whatever. And we, it was weird since, I gained like twenty pounds. And I just, we just kept doing it. So, you know, you play football, you can't really gain that much.

• 48:45Jocko Willink?

  There's also this whole thing that you're fifteen and your body's just filled with testosterone.

• 48:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, true.

• 48:50Jocko Willink?

  You were gonna gain sixteen pounds anyway.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  Bro, I'm telling you. I'll tell you this right now. I was talking to Jody Minnick about this briefly too. I'll tell you this right now. If even at forty, you go on this thing, it depends on how trained.

• 49:03Jocko Willink?

  No doubt.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  Go on this, this type of workout. I'm not even like selling this workout or nothing like that. I'm saying this, so people will think, and you know what though? Okay, people will think you're on steroids if you do this workout for like six weeks. That's it, six weeks. They'll think you're on steroids, straight up. Like my whole life, when I'd like go on a, like a six week thing, they're all, he's on steroids. Obviously, he's on steroids. It's no steroids. You don't even have to take supplements. That's the weird thing. But here, let me say this though, now that I'm thinking of it as, or about it when I'm a grown adult.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  Most programs, if you actually do the whole program.

• 49:37Jocko Willink?

  Exactly.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  It works. It works really good. That's the thing. People just don't do the workout.

• 49:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, like it's like, oh, what do you need to do? Lift heavy weights a lot.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  Eat good and rest good.

• 49:49Jocko Willink?

  Rest good. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you'll get gains.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  And let's, and let's face it, it's not as eat, like if someone says, oh yeah, it's easy. Here's the thing. It's not easy. This is why it's not easy. It's not just the workout. That's why you have to do the workout, then you have to eat enough of the right things too, by the way. And then you have to rest enough. That's basically you have to change your whole life. So if you're like, hey, it's easy. Just change your whole life. It's not easy. So and not that I'm not saying that that's a good excuse or anything, but I'm just saying it's not quote unquote easy. But yeah, there it is.

• 50:17Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Do work, diet, exercise, eat good, work out good and rest good. You'd be good. Hotel or gym.

• 50:24Jocko Willink?

  Easy as that.

• 50:25Speaker 01

  Actually, here's what you can do. Here's what I do when I go to the muster. Or wherever if I, if I'm there for like a week, like the last muster, all like go on Google maps and find like all the gyms. And be like, all right, I'm gonna get, that's kind of the commitment. Obviously, you know, that's an interest. That's your commitment. Like you want to stay in shape. Add mass, as you say, conditioning, adding mass, whatever. Look for the gym near your house. Commit to pay that gym fees. She's like, what? 10 bucks or something like that? And boom, that's the commitment, right?

• 50:56Speaker 01

  Do that. That's what I do. Same thing with jujitsu, by the way. Next question. Forgive or wait to settle the score?

• 51:07Jocko Willink?

  Uh, you know what? This is kind of a question that, okay, so forgive. If you can forgive people, forgive them. That's cool. Now here's the thing. You got that little thing eaten in the back of your mind because you want to settle the score. I know I do.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  So you really don't forgive.

• 51:22Jocko Willink?

  I'd love to tell you like, hey, just forgive and forget, right? But, but it's hard to do that sometimes, especially if well, certain situations merit, you know, a little bit. It's, it's hard to make that happen.

• 51:33Speaker 01

  A little something.

• 51:34Jocko Willink?

  Little something extra special, but this is what's interesting. Forgiving someone is actually a form of settling the score. If you can think about this. So for me, the best revenge you can take on someone is success, right? Is ignoring them and the best revenge is not even letting them know.

• 51:57Jocko Willink?

  That you even think about him anymore.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:00Jocko Willink?

  That's the best revenge in my mind. So you forgive him and you just move on. I think that's the best thing to do. Forgive him, move on and go kick ass in the world. And the little part of your brain that really wants to take revenge, you'll be taking the best possible revenge you can. You'll be doing it in the best possible way and it'll be the best for you as a human being.

• 52:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:21Jocko Willink?

  So that's what you do.

• 52:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I forgive you. And then you go kick ass.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. Forgiving someone for real, like for real, for real forgiving them is really hard. Even if you do take the high road behavior wise, on the inside, it's like you kind of don't. There's this guy in high school. Actually, it wasn't even high school, it was.

• 52:42Jocko Willink?

  You're still holding high school grudges?

• 52:44Speaker 01

  No, uh, well, I did, I guess technically, yeah. It's still there. Like if there was like, if you were to see, I don't know, something good that I did like now and be like, oh, man, he's doing good. That would give me satisfaction right now. So yeah, technically, yeah, it's still there.

• 53:00Jocko Willink?

  A little something in you.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  But um, if it's to forgive someone fully, to be to to a point where, oh, yeah, if you saw that I was doing great now or something like that, um, and that wouldn't move me either way to get to that point is super hard. So I think just like how you said, like the behavior that you wanna kind of.

• 53:23Jocko Willink?

  You want to enact.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Enact, yeah, is um, is yeah, don't let it bother you. And here's the thing, with don't not letting it not not letting it bother you. Don't let it affect you at all, like no factor, like almost like you didn't even notice kind of thing. Okay, so that's hard to do.

• 53:38Jocko Willink?

  Sorry, I didn't see you were there.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Yes, right. You can do that. If you can pull that off, bruh, that's the worst for the other person.

• 53:44Jocko Willink?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  So like you ever, you ever had like, uh.

• 53:49Jocko Willink?

  Exactly what I'm saying.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  But bro, I'll get this where like, did I say, you know, you think to yourself, dang, did I say something to piss that guy off, whoever it is, whatever, I don't know, somebody. Or that girl or whatever, um, shoot, did I say something? Are they offended or whatever? And you just don't quite know, but it's not big enough to bring up. So you can't bring it up and get that satisfaction of knowing, you know? But if they don't, just don't say any, let's say they were offended. Say they don't even like you, but they just don't, don't like talk to you rather than. If they ignore you or don't acknowledge that you said something or something like that, that's way, that bothers you way more than them like cussing you out or something, or yelling at you like, "I'm super mad at you," and them telling you they're mad at you is way more like satisfying.

• 54:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 54:33Speaker 01

  Than them not, if you just ghost them.

• 54:36Jocko Willink?

  Forgive them and move on.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, but if you ghost them, you can't overly ghost, like you can't overly ignore them.

• 54:44Jocko Willink?

  Just be like, "Hey."

• 54:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, like literally like normal. Yeah, yeah, all good.

• 54:48Jocko Willink?

  Oh yeah, it's good to see you. I haven't seen you in a while.

• 54:49Speaker 01

  That's why.

• 54:50Jocko Willink?

  Hope everything's going good for you.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  If, that's why if you're mad at someone and they text you like, "Hey," you know, oh, and if you give them like one word answers or you don't text them back, that messes with them way worse than you saying, "Yes, I'm mad at you and you hurt me and you pissed me off," whatever.

• 55:06Jocko Willink?

  Playing all these games over there.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  No, bruh, I learned it from me, bruh.

• 55:10Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Nonetheless.

• 55:12Jocko Willink?

  Good advice right there.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  Good advice. Next question. When you, you've crushed your daily to-do list, do you then take the time to relax or do you attack the next day's list? Is that against prioritize and execute since the mission is done for the day?

• 55:27Jocko Willink?

  You know, just do more, just keep going.

• 55:30Speaker 01

  Even if it's on the next day?

• 55:32Jocko Willink?

  Keep going, do more. If you have extra time, do whatever you can do to stay ahead. And I do that pretty much until I'm brain dead. And I, I work, I can definitely work myself into, until I'm brain dead. Like I can get to a point where I'm reading or I'm writing and it's just, it's just, it's just done. I'm done. And so I just have to stop and take a break and then I'll go do something mindless for a while, you know? So, you know, if you, if you've got stuff to do, keep hammering until you can't hammer anymore and then say, "Oh, okay, you know what? I need a little breather." And then take a little breather and then get back to it. Right now, I could work 24 hours a day, 24 hours a day.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:08Jocko Willink?

  Seven days a week, 365 days a year, and, and I wouldn't be able to get done the things I'm trying to get done. So it's not like I'm sitting there going, "Oh, cool, I got a break." No.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I can save that.

• 56:18Jocko Willink?

  All I's got is more stuff to do.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 56:20Jocko Willink?

  I've got things to do. So, not a bunch of, uh, what does he call it? Breaks and relaxing? There's not, not a lot of that happening right now. Now, you go surfing, is that a break? Kind of. It's like a big break.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  Well, it's kind of part of the process. It's like if you're doing five sets of ten on the bench.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  What are you gonna do? One set of fifty? No, you do five sets of ten. So, first set of ten, what do you do? You gotta rest, gotta recover. That's what surfing is. That's the, it's the rest between sets. That's all that is.

• 56:48Jocko Willink?

  That's right.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  There you go. It's part of the process.

• 56:51Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 56:52Speaker 01

  But what you, would you recommend for someone who's like a normal person?

• 56:56Jocko Willink?

  Do what you can. Knock it out. Build up extra free time. If you need a break, take a break.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 57:04Jocko Willink?

  That's pretty crazy, right? No, what I'm saying is like, do what you can. If you need a break, take a break. If you need a little relaxation, take some relaxation. Don't waste your time though. See, people, people do relaxing, but they do it, they don't even do it good. They don't even feel relaxed when they get done.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  It's not productive relaxing.

• 57:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, they're, they just, what they did is they did something stupid for an hour. They watched YouTube videos for an hour.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:26Jocko Willink?

  Did that help you? No. Go outside, go for a run, do some burpees, go surfing, go do some jiu-jitsu. Uh, play with your kids, whatever. Do something that actually has some value.

• 57:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:37Jocko Willink?

  The real value.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  Uh, but so what about, you know, pahana and we're going to, uh, the bar?

• 57:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. That's not great, but sometimes.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  Don't get too hammered because you're hungover the next day. You can't account, you know, you can't function as good. Boom. Can't, uh, your output, your productivity goes down next day.

• 57:56Jocko Willink?

  You better tell everyone what pahana means, cause not everyone knows.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  Oh, pahana, I guess technically it means done with what you're doing. Pa means done, hana means like do.

• 58:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Uh, but yeah, pahana, finish with what you're doing. Tip it's refer to when you're finished with work.

• 58:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's the way I always used it.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Yo, yeah, when you finish work, pahana, go, go, you know, whatever. It's like Miller time, you know? Kind of the same thing, little bit. Next question. Would you recommend jiu-jitsu for a fifty-five-year-old female with no former martial arts background? Is the risk for injury too high?

• 58:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, answered this one a bunch of times. Hey, yes, you should do jujitsu. Pick good training partners, get your ego out of the picture and go very slow and learn the techniques. And you'll get something out of it.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:43Jocko Willink?

  Watch out for sparring, rolling, live. You need to be really careful and you need to really select good training partners that are very much more experienced than you are. Don't roll with white belts if you're a 55, don't even roll with blue belts if you can help it. As a 55 year old, unless they're small and smart. Just be careful. But yeah, it's a great train, it's a great thing.

• 59:03Speaker 01

  What about, um, cause I actually got asked this online and I was actually through DMs, like going through, who's a girl, her last name's Taylor, if I'm not mistaken. I forgot her first name. Anyway, she's a black belt and she, uh, you know, when it comes to girls rolling, just even just regular girls or whatever, let's face it, I mean, in training, they do have a bigger kinda, kinda obstacle in that way where they're at, they are at a higher risk of injury more times because everyone, if, if they're rolling with the guys, I mean, everyone, chances are everyone's bigger than them. And they might be going hard and they, you know, some guys, especially early on, they don't realize that dang, they're putting a lot of strength. And, you know, all this stuff into these moves.

• 59:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, one guy's like,

• 59:47Jocko Willink?

  I'm not going hard.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, they don't even realize it.

• 59:49Jocko Willink?

  They're completely exhausted. Yeah. I am, I am relaxed.

• 59:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:55Speaker 01

  Exactly. Where, where they do have this obstacle, even 55 year old, uh, lady, or even just an older person in general, um, they do have that added obstacle where, yeah, you do have to kinda.

• 1:00:07Jocko Willink?

  So what's the question? Yeah. The question is like, what do those people do?

• 1:00:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, same deal.

• 1:00:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, they, they, they have to be more extremely cautious. They have to take more caution. Cause you're a hundred percent right. What you're saying is right. You do, and what is what I just said, you don't want to go with a psycho white belt. You don't even want to go with any white belt, right? Cause they're, they're, they don't know what they're doing. So go with someone that's a purple belt, someone that's relaxed. They're, a 55 year old woman is gonna be on a different. Pace down the path. You're gonna be on the path, but she's at a different pace.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:41Jocko Willink?

  And the stress is to, I would focus on the, the learning of the technique a lot more. You know, I'd spend a lot more time drilling and learning the technique. And then occasionally with your black belt instructor, with your brown belt instructor, with some of the high level, purple belt, smart people, you do a nice little roll with them. You have some fun. You see what works, what doesn't work. You learn a little bit more. Take that path. Take that pace down the path.

• 1:01:05Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:01:06Jocko Willink?

  Don't go in there with a big ego and, you know, what happens every time, like, if you introduce jujitsu to people, they think that they have the solution to something that you teach.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  Right, right, right.

• 1:01:19Jocko Willink?

  And it's like, no, you don't actually have the solution. You are, don't know anything. So just, just don't do that. It was at the muster and you know, we teach jujitsu for the first time to a bunch of people and we were teaching the oompa, right? The, the oompa escape, the oompa escape. Where you roll the person over from the mount. And this one guy, you know, he's like, I'm teaching a bunch of people. This one guy's like, I, look, this doesn't work. And he's got his weight all the way in the other side and he's got his leg up.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  I remember that.

• 1:01:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, I'm, I'm like, yeah, there's another move. You just do this pop up and now you're in the guard and. But like in his mind, like jujitsu just doesn't, wasn't, doesn't, doesn't work. I don't know what this crap is that Jocko's all into, but obviously it doesn't work. It's like, no, actually it works. So you, you don't, you don't uncover the magic of jujitsu in one moment.

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:10Jocko Willink?

  You know?

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, actually, you know what? I do remember the question. So you know how like fifty five year old women, uh, roll with, you know, high level people, people that you trust, people who have like a lot of control over the, over the situation. What about like, let's say, I, I, you know, I'm a fifty five year old woman. I have a twin sister. She's fifty five. We're in the same shape, kind of thing, just normal people. And can we roll?

• 1:02:30Jocko Willink?

  You better be careful. You better calm down. You better not get competitive. You better relax.

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:38Jocko Willink?

  Now, one thing that's good is, I, I would say yes, actually.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

• 1:02:42Jocko Willink?

  You know why? Because you're around equivalent strength, you're around equivalent knowledge. You still gotta be careful. I would prefer you go a couple, six months before. Before you jump in and do a death match with your twin sister at age fifty five.

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:56Jocko Willink?

  I know you you've been competing against each other. So just just try and relax, you know, I used to Jade trying to kill you like dude. Come on. When Jade used to train.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  No, sorry. Oh, wait, yeah, he tried. Sure, he could try.

• 1:03:09Jocko Willink?

  No, I know. That's what I'm saying. He tried.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  It's funny that Jay, even from birth Jade was a little bit bigger than me.

• 1:03:16Jocko Willink?

  Not anymore.

• 1:03:16Speaker 01

  No, no, no. And I think it's literally a direct result of it of always being a little bit stronger.

• 1:03:21Jocko Willink?

  A smaller complex.

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, like a little small mini micro.

• 1:03:25Jocko Willink?

  Bigger than this dude.

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  And you know when that happened? He was bigger than me through high school.

• 1:03:29Jocko Willink?

  Oh, really?

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Through, uh, even through college. He was bigger than me until we were done kind of with college and I was like, I'm just gonna lift. And I ballooned up to like almost two fifty.

• 1:03:40Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  Two fifty. And then he was like.

• 1:03:42Jocko Willink?

  Were you athletic when you were two fifty?

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, surprisingly, yeah, not as fast.

• 1:03:46Jocko Willink?

  Go back up there again?

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  I wasn't as athletic. Oh, as a, you know, you know, a grown adult, it doesn't make sense for me. I'm not tall. I don't know. This is my opinion. And plus in Hawaii.

• 1:03:57Jocko Willink?

  Lean two fifty?

• 1:03:58Speaker 01

  Not as lean as I am now. No, I wouldn't call myself lean or like cut, but I wasn't fat though. That's the thing. I even have this old picture of me and my friend Scotty Lewis. He's a cop now, by the way. He, uh, we were like, cause he would lift it. He was my lifting partner.

• 1:04:14Jocko Willink?

  Jack and Steve.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, big time. And, um, and we were like, this is when I was like two forty five. He was like maybe two thirty or something like that. And yeah, I was big, but I was like, that was like surprisingly defined though.

• 1:04:25Jocko Willink?

  I got up to two fifty one time.

• 1:04:27Speaker 01

  Oh, that's huge.

• 1:04:28Jocko Willink?

  And then I went and ran a four mile run. And I and I did not feel good.

• 1:04:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:33Jocko Willink?

  And I was like, okay, I'm done with this.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:35Jocko Willink?

  I mean, I was pumped to be two fifty just because, you know, you're two fifty, but I did a four mile run and I was like, good God, this is horrible.

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:42Jocko Willink?

  I can't do my job as well as I should be able to. Yeah.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the answer why you don't want to be two fifty and even be like, that's a huge amount of weight, even health wise, especially as you get older, whatever. Like to be just rolling around two fifty, you know? Yeah, and if you can't do a four mile run, if you can't do, I probably, thinking back, like even a one mile run would have been kinda, kinda more difficult than I would have liked at 250.

• 1:05:07Jocko Willink?

  That's not good. That's not a good sign.

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, nonetheless, that's, that's how it went. So yeah, the point there being, I got bigger than, than Jade, boom. And with that little micro Napoleon complex, it like, I was more like aggressive or am even still not like more like, I'll take up more aggressive, like I started jiu-jitsu, he didn't even consider jiu-jitsu, I started jiu-jitsu.

• 1:05:32Jocko Willink?

  Echo Charles, the aggressive one.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  More, more aggressive, more guy, I don't know.

• 1:05:37Jocko Willink?

  That's funny because I don't think of it that way.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  You think Jade's more aggressive?

• 1:05:39Jocko Willink?

  I think Jade's more aggressive.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Maybe like to get in like a debate or something, yeah.

• 1:05:44Jocko Willink?

  He's definitely aggressive there.

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, 100%, but, but yeah, physical activity. I probably started jiu-jitsu, I was like, before Jade started, I was, I was like well into purple belt before Jade even started. And that's a big gap. So yeah, Jake can try to kill me, he will not kill me, just simply won't, it's almost impossible, it's pretty much impossible, technically impossible. There's, so if you go percentage, right, chance of him ever beating me, the percent of, the percent chance of him beating me is closer to zero than it is 1%.

• 1:06:16Jocko Willink?

  True.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  That's how it is right now.

• 1:06:19Jocko Willink?

  Unless he went on the complete warpath.

• 1:06:21Speaker 01

  Oh, what do you mean, if he trained and got more training than me? Well, yeah, that goes for everybody. Currently, that's how it is.

• 1:06:27Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  So, 0% he's off the path. Doesn't matter, he can get on the path, still, 0% chance. Next question, I'd like to hear your thoughts on people entering the military in their 30s. I'm sure you saw it. How'd they fare?

• 1:06:43Jocko Willink?

  Entering the military at an older age is fine, you got maturity, you got experience, you got intelligence. And so that's good, you're gonna bring a lot to the table. However, you also have maturity, experience and intelligence. So, the only downfall of it is you gotta do some dumb stuff when you're in the military. And, and, and if you're older and you see how dumb some of the stuff that you're doing is, it's gonna be harder for you to do it, you're gonna have a little bit of. A negative attitude on if you allow yourself it'd be easy to I should say that if you allow yourself it'd be easy to develop a negative attitude about that stuff. I joined when I was eighteen years old. I didn't care. You want me to do whatever you want me to do. I'll do it. I didn't see the stupidity in a lot of the stuff.

• 1:07:23Jocko Willink?

  And so I think that's the only drawback is you'll just be looking at some of the stuff that you do in the military thinking, oh, I this is much more efficient way to do this. And if you let that get to you, it's gonna be problematic. So go in there with an open mind, do the crap, the tedious and kind of mindless stuff that you gotta do. And push through that and then you'll get to a position of leadership and you can do your best to mitigate that and take care of other soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines. While you're out there serving the country. So yeah, it's awesome. It's great. You'll you'll be a big benefit.

• 1:07:53Speaker 01

  Do you think that that even that?

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  How you're saying like, okay, you'll you'll you kind of look at things in more of an adult way kind of thing where it's like, oh, there's more efficient way to do something. Do you think that that mindset would kind of keep you from, you know, being more cohesive to with?

• 1:08:08Jocko Willink?

  If you allow it to, it definitely will. If you if you that's why I said you have to allow if you just go, look, this is this is the way it is right now. I'm a I'm a E one in the military. They're telling me to do this thing. It doesn't make any sense right now. I'm gonna do it to the best of my ability and move forward. If you say, oh, this is stupid and you spread the negativity, the other guys know why we doing this, it's yeah, it's gonna be problematic. So go in there, have a good attitude. You can promote really quickly if you're squared away like that, you know, so you got a good opportunity ahead of you. I think it's I think it's totally good to go.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  What about even like socially, you know, like kind of like?

• 1:08:42Jocko Willink?

  Think about it, you're thirty, these kids are eighteen. You've been out in the world, you've had a job, you probably have a house, you might have kids. These kids are. I I was out of high school, like, you know what I mean? It's you're not there yet. You're and you think about. What you know when you're that age compared to what when you're when you're thirty? You know, my big thing is I tell my kids all the time, you know, or like my oldest daughter, who's in college and whatnot. And I'm always like, when I was your age, I was my first seal platoon, you know, like. You just can't even compete with what I was doing with the responsibility that I had when I was eighteen years old, you know, all that stuff. But but the truth is, when you're eighteen, you're not as mature as you are when you're thirty. So yeah, there'll be a social disconnect. Like, I went to college when I was.

• 1:09:28Jocko Willink?

  I think I was twenty eight or twenty nine or thirty and so yeah, I was around kids that were eighteen nineteen years old. And I I realized very quickly that you know, you'd meet some mature kids, but a lot of kids were just they're just young. You know, I mean, there's not a big difference between eighteen and fifteen. For some people, right?

• 1:09:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:09:45Jocko Willink?

  You think about what you were doing, you were fifteen years old, sixteen years old, like I joined the military. So luckily I had some kind of structure imposed upon me. Yeah. But you think about the kind of stuff that you can do when you're eighteen years old, people do dumb, dumb, dumb stuff.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:00Jocko Willink?

  You you you look back and you you're happy that you made it.

• 1:10:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:06Jocko Willink?

  Cause you do dumb dumb stuff.

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:09Jocko Willink?

  You know, we're talking about wasting your time on YouTube videos, go waste your time on YouTube. Like just put in like, you know, teenagers doing dumb stuff. And you'll you'll say, wow, and and fifty percent of the stuff that you see, you'll recognize. Like, oh, yeah, I remember that.

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  You know.

• 1:10:26Jocko Willink?

  So, yeah, don't do dumb stuff and and as a thirty year old in the military, you can help give some of that guidance to people. So I think it's cool. Go for it, man.

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  And kind of vice versa, right? Cause like if you're the eighteen year old nineteen year old guy, there's like, you know, a hundred, however, many other eighteen nineteen year old. Guys, you guys are all cruising, then here comes this thirty year old, you know, all level headed, bro, I can't relate to this guy. This guy's kind of weird.

• 1:10:47Jocko Willink?

  The the other thing is when you're eighteen, you don't even know how much those thirty year olds know. You just think that there you actually think you know more than them. You're looking at them like they're idiots. Like, why would you not? You know, swing off this rope.

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:01Jocko Willink?

  And see if you can get through the window on the third floor. Why would you not do that? Exactly. So that's something I would be I would brace yourself for that, too. Remember the perspective of an eighteen year old. And they're not looking at you going, gosh, I'd really like to learn a lot.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:14Jocko Willink?

  They're looking at you like, I can't believe you joined the military. What's wrong with you?

• 1:11:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, old man.

• 1:11:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, old man.

• 1:11:19Speaker 01

  There is, there were guys who actually they came from the military and still eligible, right, for football in college. And one guy was 26, one guy was 27. And let's think, let's face it, 26, 27, that's young. That's you're physically like you're solid still. And we looked at them like, man, these are like, these are old school guys. These are like,

• 1:11:39Jocko Willink?

  Better be careful with them on practice.

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, literally, it was like, I felt like that for one of the guys anyway. And then you go to class right and you get these people who, you know, they, they don't go to college right after high school. They go, you know, later on when, in my opinion, when most of us should go, when you know why you're going. And so this one lady was in my class. She was maybe 35, I don't know, maybe 36, whatever.

• 1:12:00Jocko Willink?

  Did she look at you with disgust all day long?

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  No, she didn't look at me at all.

• 1:12:02Jocko Willink?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:12:03Speaker 01

  She freaking like,

• 1:12:04Jocko Willink?

  She did her own program?

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I was no factor in her life for what she was doing. Yeah, literally the correct way to do it. She sat up front like a weirdo, you know, and she's asking questions.

• 1:12:15Jocko Willink?

  Protocol.

• 1:12:16Speaker 01

  Literally. And that's really the way to go when you think about it. You don't even have to think about it. That's the way to go. But nonetheless, she's like this, but she's obviously 30 something years old and it just didn't compute to me. You know, like, I was like,

• 1:12:26Jocko Willink?

  You just didn't get it. The most important thing, well, not most, but that's a really key part of this conversation is when you're eight, imagine as a 30 year old, when you're looking at that 18 year old, they don't see, they don't understand anything. So, check.

• 1:12:41Speaker 01

  No, sir, we don't. When you're 18. Next question. You've said everyone will know if you're the one taking ownership and leading the team in spite of having a poor leader or someone who does everything for their own glory. But what do you do if your boss's boss doesn't make the connection between your work and the team's success?

• 1:13:06Jocko Willink?

  Good. Good. You know what I do? Keep working hard. That's awesome. Make, keep making your boss look good. I recommend that you put your ego in check because you want to get that credit for, for what, for what's happening. You're looking for that glory and they're, they're, the boss is doing it for glory. Well, guess what? That's making you mad because you want some of that glory. You know what? It'll come. The two things about this are, number one, let him have it. Make him look great. You're worried that the boss's boss doesn't get it. It will come in due course. Be patient. Work hard, give your boss the credit, don't worry about it. And in due course, it'll come. You, you can't fool the boss, the boss's boss won't get fooled forever. They won't get fooled forever. And you know what?

• 1:13:51Jocko Willink?

  Worst case scenario, you get your bosses, you get your boss promoted. Cool. Now he trusts you, you worked hard for him, you did good, he put, you can take his role. It's okay. It's okay. This is very common, this is no strange question.

• 1:14:10Speaker 01

  Next question.

• 1:14:12Speaker 01

  What do you do for fun? When you're not getting after it?

• 1:14:16Jocko Willink?

  Uh, that's kind of a weird question. Right?

• 1:14:18Speaker 01

  Why? Cause you're always getting after it?

• 1:14:19Jocko Willink?

  Well, because is surfing getting after it? Yeah, it is actually. Jiu Jitsu getting after it? Yeah, it is getting after it. Is playing guitar getting after it? Well, yes, it is. Is a rock and roll band getting after it? Yes, it is. Okay, I guess. If I'm hanging with my kids, is that getting after it?

• 1:14:36Speaker 01

  Sometimes.

• 1:14:36Jocko Willink?

  Kind of. It depends what we're doing, guess what we're doing, Jiu Jitsu? So yeah, I don't know. Um, what I do for fun where I'm not getting after it? Just stuff that I enjoy doing. Like you said earlier, like it doesn't take discipline. To go and do Jiu Jitsu if Jiu Jitsu is really fun for you and Jiu Jitsu is definitely fun for me. I would say seventy percent of the time. I'm, I'm like super stoked to be going and roll. Thirty percent of the time, I don't feel like it, I go anyways. Or I should say twenty eight percent of the time. There's like two percent of the time where I recognize, oh, I'm gonna get hurt today. Cause I'm beat up or I'm tired or whatever. It's like, okay, you know what? Maybe I won't train today. Yeah. Or, and even on those days, sometimes I'll come in and I'll just do a light roll.

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:21Jocko Willink?

  Just to make sure. Put myself a little discipline check. So yeah, I don't know, people, that's the kind of the thing where. I guess from other people's perspective, if they're thinking Jiu Jitsu is not fun and working out is not fun and, and, and. Practicing an instrument is not fun, well then, I'm not ever having any fun.

• 1:15:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:40Jocko Willink?

  But actually the opposite is true. All those things are fun for me, so I'm having fun all the time. There you go.

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it kind of, kind of goes. In line with them that other question, the mindless, like, do you ever do mindless stuff? So maybe that's kind of the question.

• 1:15:53Jocko Willink?

  Yard work, oh yeah, yard work, cleaning the garage, stuff like that.

• 1:15:58Speaker 01

  But you know, actually, you know what it is, now that I think of it, it's the, the question could be, could be. Do you, what do you do fun, meaning, what do you do like mindless stuff that's, um, that's not technically productive? So you say turf surfing.

• 1:16:13Jocko Willink?

  Surfing is not technically productive?

• 1:16:16Speaker 01

  I don't know though, so it's one of those things.

• 1:16:17Jocko Willink?

  But you know what, you feel good when you get out of the water, I mean, you get a little workout going.

• 1:16:20Speaker 01

  It is, because you get better at surfing.

• 1:16:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so it is kind of productive, but there's no, there's no productivity to surfing, there's no, there's no ultimate goal. Other than the doing it itself.

• 1:16:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, same thing with guitar, but you're getting better at guitar.

• 1:16:33Jocko Willink?

  True.

• 1:16:33Speaker 01

  So like even like yard work, for example, it's like, sure, that's, that's in your mind. Yeah, that's productive, you're improving, it's productive.

• 1:16:41Jocko Willink?

  So what you're asking me is what do I do that's completely unproductive?

• 1:16:44Speaker 01

  Unproductive, yeah.

• 1:16:51Jocko Willink?

  I don't know, right now, there's not a lot of things.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  Hardest question in the world, man.

• 1:16:55Jocko Willink?

  There's not a lot of things right now that I'm doing that aren't somehow productive.

• 1:16:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:59Jocko Willink?

  I think, but anyways.

• 1:17:00Speaker 01

  Because technically.

• 1:17:01Jocko Willink?

  They're all fun though, because that was the actual question, you're just trying to.

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I'm all assuming, presuming, the, you, you know, because watching YouTube, back to the other question, watching YouTube videos of like, you ever, uh, like, trade, go on YouTube, actually, don't do it, but if you do do it, do this. Go, put in the search in YouTube, go drunk girl fails, okay, that's what it's called, drunk girl fails, okay, so there's probably maybe five hundred thousand to ten million of these videos. Potentially, that's my estimate, so what that means is, once you're done with one, the other one's coming, and here's the thing. It never gets old. So that is

• 1:17:41Jocko Willink?

  Actually, I do think it gets old.

• 1:17:43Speaker 01

  Alright, well, yeah, that was more of like a, what do you call it, exaggeration, but it takes a long time, I would argue, for cer- for most of us, for it to quote unquote, get old. So, the point there is, that is something that is straight up not productive.

• 1:17:57Jocko Willink?

  True.

• 1:17:57Speaker 01

  You can learn a lesson.

• 1:17:58Jocko Willink?

  Do much of that.

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  The lessons to be learned from those videos get learned, literally the first video.

• 1:18:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  Literally, and then.

• 1:18:05Jocko Willink?

  Well, no, they don't get learned in the first video, because the first one just seems like it could be an anomaly. It's like when you tap someone that's never done jiu-jitsu before, it takes like three or four before they go, okay, I get it. You know something, I don't know. So you gotta watch three to five drunk girl fail videos, with your, you know, sixteen year old daughter and say like, this is why you don't get drunk.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:27Jocko Willink?

  This is why.

• 1:18:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:29Jocko Willink?

  Believe me, okay, we'll watch two more, and we'll see if there's any of these things that, that you would wanna see yourself behaving as.

• 1:18:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, and you could argue that maybe if you watch five, six, seven, ten, twenty, you start to see another pattern get revealed within the pattern of drunk girl fails. So, one of them is, you know, a girl riding a scooter.

• 1:18:50Jocko Willink?

  Down this path.

• 1:18:52Jocko Willink?

  So you're not, like, not just don't get drunk, but don't ride scooters.

• 1:18:55Speaker 01

  Exactly right. Exactly right. We see.

• 1:18:57Jocko Willink?

  Dance on the bar when drunk.

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly right. So if you see, let's say, within the, the span of fifteen drunk girl fail videos, you see, you know, thirty of those is girls dancing on the bar, versus only two of them were girls on a scooter. You can kinda discern that dancing on the bar statistically

• 1:19:21Jocko Willink?

  Alright dude.

• 1:19:22Speaker 01

  Is a little bit more dangerous. I'm just saying, hey, look, hey, we're digging for lessons here, alright? Well, that's, so that's a bad thing. Dancing, digging for lessons is a bad thing, that's what you're saying.

• 1:19:31Jocko Willink?

  Where, that wasn't a lesson, bro. Sorry.

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  Digging for lessons. Next question.

• 1:19:40Speaker 01

  Virtuosity requires your favorite subject, discipline. Creativity is important as well. Does a single focus on discipline inhibit creativity?

• 1:19:52Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:19:54Jocko Willink?

  Jimmy Page. Next question.

• 1:19:59Jocko Willink?

  Seriously, Jimmy Page.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  What, okay, all right, well.

• 1:20:02Jocko Willink?

  Jimmy Page, Led Zeppelin. Guitar virtuoso, practiced with discipline. I just answered this on the kids podcast.

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:20:11Jocko Willink?

  Because Jimmy Page played guitar so much when he was in school that they had to take his guitar from him during like study halls, during lunch. Like, no, you can't just sit there and play guitar. You need to do other things.

• 1:20:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:20:25Jocko Willink?

  That's how much he practiced.

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:27Jocko Willink?

  He practiced so much, he became such a, such a skilled player through that much discipline that he was able to get more creative

• 1:20:39Jocko Willink?

  than almost anyone else on the guitar. So there you go. It doesn't, it gives you freedom. It, it, it, it expands your creativity.

• 1:20:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:48Jocko Willink?

  And Jimmy Page is one example of a multitude.

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  So let me ask you this. I guess we kind of talked about, but not really, I've never really actually asked you that I can remember. So if you, and let's assume that Jimmy Page, he didn't do it because he felt like this is, you know, the, what I should be doing right now, whatever he did just because I'm addicted to guitar. I love it and there's nothing I'd rather be doing and all this stuff. So if you, the question is, if you just love doing it and that's why you're doing it so much. I love guitar. I don't want to eat dinner right now. I'm busy on my guitar. Just, you know, enjoying myself and learning and just loving it every single moment of it. I don't want to go surf. I'm on my guitar. Boom, every single day. Is that discipline?

• 1:21:46Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:21:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  Because, let's say, okay.

• 1:21:54Jocko Willink?

  Actually, I don't know. I guess not technically.

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:58Jocko Willink?

  No, it is. It is. It is. But I'd be hard pressed to find somebody that loves doing something so much that they do it all the time with no discipline whatsoever.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think I agree with you there, but technically, is that discipline though? Because, you know, take Michael Jordan, right, for example?

• 1:22:21Jocko Willink?

  That's not a good example.

• 1:22:22Speaker 01

  Well, for what I'm about to say.

• 1:22:24Jocko Willink?

  I think the guitar example is good, because if you really love doing it, and that's what you're doing, I'll tell you what, it takes discipline, even if you enjoy it.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:33Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna stick with that answer for now.

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  So let's say.

• 1:22:35Jocko Willink?

  You know what, and even more important answers, I don't think it matters.

• 1:22:38Speaker 01

  I don't think it matters either.

• 1:22:39Jocko Willink?

  So I don't even.

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  Ultimately, because it's like, it's because it kind of alter at the end of the game, it, did you put in the hours of practice? And did you get good at it? Okay, did you get good at it? That's what the question is, did you get good at this thing? Usually, I'll say, all the time, pretty much, with very few exceptions, the way you get good at something is practice. And then, you know, usually, since you can't do one thing all day, every single day for, you know, thirty, forty, fifty years, it's gonna take discipline, meaning you're gonna have to do it even though you don't want to do it, kind of thing. Which is part of what discipline is. But what if that part of it doesn't, isn't there? Because even like Michael Jordan, he's so good, and he's probably loved basketball, whatever, but there is, of course, days where he's like, okay, I'd rather maybe be hanging

• 1:23:24Speaker 01

  out, but I'm gonna take discipline and do the extra work.

• 1:23:26Jocko Willink?

  That's why I said it's not a good example.

• 1:23:27Speaker 01

  Right, right, but.

• 1:23:27Jocko Willink?

  He's a real person. Because to get a person that loves something so much that it took them zero discipline, I don't think that's a realistic person.

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:23:37Jocko Willink?

  I think that anyone that does anything, it gets to a point where the only thing that drives them to do that extra percentage is discipline. So I guess I will stick with it.

• 1:23:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I guess the question, if you want to kind of relate it to like a real person, so you know, a person who, again, just like loves it, just loves what they do, of course, they're gonna have some discipline, because they're gonna have some days that they don't love it or whatever.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  Like are they, would you consider them a disciplined person in their, in their field?

• 1:24:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but we've also talked about this before. There's people that are very disciplined in one field and completely undisciplined in other fields.

• 1:24:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's kind of an indicator that that might not really be technically disciplined technically. They got the practice.

• 1:24:23Jocko Willink?

  Again, I don't think it matters. Do your work. If you like it, that's great. If you don't like it, here's a, here's an indicator. If you, if you don't like doing it, well, what are you doing it for?

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:34Jocko Willink?

  If you don't even enjoy it, I mean.

• 1:24:36Speaker 01

  The end, right?

• 1:24:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:38Speaker 01

  Means to the, to the, to the end or whatever. Means to an end.

• 1:24:41Jocko Willink?

  But if you're going to dedicate level 12 to something that you don't even enjoy?

• 1:24:45Speaker 01

  I think so.

• 1:24:45Jocko Willink?

  That's kind of problematic.

• 1:24:47Speaker 01

  I think you're right too. Next question. When you realize that nothing will change in the leadership, do you tap out and move on? Or continue trying to be a good leader to your crew who deserves it?

• 1:25:00Jocko Willink?

  That's definitely a, a question that

• 1:25:04Jocko Willink?

  it requires a little bit more information to give a good answer to. You know, because what's the situation? Can you be, is there an opportunity that you could become the leader long-term? Cause that totally changes the outlook, right? If, if you could, if you could do a good job and step up and move into a more senior leadership position where you could take even more to turns or take even more care of the crew. Well, then that's a positive thing and it might be worth hanging out for. Also, is it a complete dead end? Like, is there no possibility? It's a family-owned business and all the senior leadership is related to the family and you're not part of the family and you'll never have a chance?

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:25:41Jocko Willink?

  That, that changes the prospect. I mean, obviously then it's like, okay, well, maybe it's not worth sticking around there. If you leave, can you leave where you can give open the opportunity for other people to go where you're going, right? Which is not a good thing in terms of, you know. You're not being very loyal, you're being anti loyal, you're being unloyal, disloyal if you do that. But if the leadership that you're working for isn't taking care of the people, then you you have to have some loyalty to the people that you work with. So there's that. Um, I think that you you you have to assess everything that's going on in the situation, which which is not evident in this one quick question.

• 1:26:24Jocko Willink?

  I would say this too, like, don't blindside your boss, right? That's something that if you're gonna leave, leave on good terms. Explain to him what's going on. Also, that can be an opportunity to start a conversation about how the leadership could improve. A lot of times, people don't want to change anything until it really smacks them in the face. And one of the things that smacks them in the face is when one of their good people comes in and says, hey, look, I I I'm gonna leave because of these reasons. And again, you don't on the exit interview or on those conversations, you don't just drop dime and make everyone make it out to be this horrible situation. Say, here's some things that I've noticed. Here's some things that I would want to change. Here's the direction that I see the company going, and this is the direction I think it should be going. And for these reasons, I've decided I'm gonna go try, you know, try my hand somewhere else.

• 1:27:07Jocko Willink?

  I think if you be open like that, it can start some good conversations and possibly you could make some progress. Or possibly you could confirm your suspicions, which are no one wants to change, no one wants to do anything different. And if that's the case, and you realize it's a dead end for you, yeah, you gotta take that option.

• 1:27:26Jocko Willink?

  You you you can't beat your head against the on the forty, you know, you can beat your head against the wall forty seven times on the forty eighth time. It's like, okay, I need to do something different. So pay attention to that.

• 1:27:40Speaker 01

  Next question.

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  What can we all learn from Tenacious D that most people overlook?

• 1:27:49Jocko Willink?

  You know,

• 1:27:49Speaker 01

  Critical question.

• 1:27:50Jocko Willink?

  It is a critical question, but there's actually a real, a real legitimate answer to that. And that is that Tenacious D, who's a a very funny group of individuals. Jack Black is one of them, who's a musician and a comedian and an actor. And Kyle Gass is the other member. What's what's great about them is they don't take themselves too seriously. And I think that's the lesson to learn is don't take yourself too seriously. Have some fun and.

• 1:28:19Jocko Willink?

  Don't take yourself too seriously. There it is.

• 1:28:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I would say there's a difference between taking yourself seriously and being serious. So, you know how like,

• 1:28:32Speaker 01

  being serious is like, okay, you're not necessarily joking all the time. But taking yourself too seriously is like, you know, if like a joke is made about you, or you can't laugh at yourself, or that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, it's different. So you can be serious all the time. You can be a serious person and not take yourself too seriously.

• 1:28:51Jocko Willink?

  That is true. And that's a good, that's fine. That's fine. The person you don't want to be is the person that takes themselves too seriously all the time.

• 1:28:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:58Jocko Willink?

  That's a problem.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  So inversely, I guess, could you be too, like, could you be a very not serious person, but take yourself too seriously?

• 1:29:09Jocko Willink?

  Could you be a very serious?

• 1:29:11Speaker 01

  No, not, could you be a very like jokey, not serious person?

• 1:29:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. That's the person that you can dish it out, but you can't take it.

• 1:29:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, thin-skinned type guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kind of like you, right? A little bit?

• 1:29:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:29:25Speaker 01

  See, I see what you did there. I got you. Uh, next question. Unless there's anything more from Tenacious D?

• 1:29:33Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:29:33Speaker 01

  You know, maybe some good songs we can?

• 1:29:37Speaker 01

  Inspirado, right? That's from Tenacious D? That's where you got that from?

• 1:29:40Jocko Willink?

  I gotta give a warning. The language is not appropriate for kids with Tenacious D, and nor is some of the subject matter, so be careful with that.

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, heed the warning. Next question. You mentioned you rarely play closed guard. Rarely. Is this just a personal preference?

• 1:29:58Jocko Willink?

  I would say that it is somewhat a personal preference, right? Because there's definitely some people that intentionally play closed guard. That's their game. Um, but at the same time, in order to attack, even from the closed guard, most of the time you have to open your guard. So therefore, your guard is open, so open guard. And that's kind of what I do. Skip the step of opening my guard. But you've been in people's guard that have really good closed guards.

• 1:30:26Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:30:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's not fun.

• 1:30:27Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:30:28Jocko Willink?

  And that's why I try not to let people close their guard.

• 1:30:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:31Jocko Willink?

  Because you can prevent that from happening. Yeah. There's people that have really, really solid psycho closed guards. So I'm not anti-closed guard, and some people are great at it. Uh, my personal preference is to play more open guard.

• 1:30:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it's one of those things where closed guard, if you're not a person who always plays closed guard or whatever, it can be just something that you kind of use for specific situations, you know, like if you're trying to uh maybe re regain some energy or something like that, you wanna rest a little bit, or even in like a self-defense, like a striking scenario, like a closed guard might

• 1:31:09Jocko Willink?

  No, the closed guard is, there's no doubt that closed guard has viable purpose.

• 1:31:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:14Jocko Willink?

  And it's good, and I do use it, I just don't use it a lot.

• 1:31:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And if you're a taller, lanky guy, closed guard might be a little bit

• 1:31:23Jocko Willink?

  And I have short, fat legs that, you know, my closed guard is like, my toes are touching. Depending on the size of the person. And actually, where it stems from, if you went to the root of it, is it stems from foot locks. So if you close your guard, when your guard opens, you're vulnerable. And that, there's a moment where you're vulnerable, and if you're training with guys that have really good foot locks, that's not a good situation. So that's where I started not closing my guard, because there was always that transition period where my feet were vulnerable. So I just stopped closing my guard and kept it open and moved my feet towards me to keep them a little bit safer.

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  Next question.

• 1:32:03Jocko Willink?

  We got time for one more?

• 1:32:05Speaker 01

  Yes. Yo, Jocko. What's the best way to incre-

• 1:32:12Speaker 01

  Yo, Jocko. What's the best way to increase one's confidence?

• 1:32:19Jocko Willink?

  You want to increase

• 1:32:23Jocko Willink?

  your confidence. I'll, I'll tell you what I think. What you do, if you want to increase your confidence is

• 1:32:31Jocko Willink?

  you do jiu-jitsu.

• 1:32:34Jocko Willink?

  You work out, you get stronger. You read, and you study, and you learn, and you get smarter.

• 1:32:42Jocko Willink?

  And, and then you practice speaking, and you practice speaking so that you can become more articulate. And then you practice some more.

• 1:32:54Jocko Willink?

  And then you then you do hard things. Things that are challenging. Things that are tough, and then you get tougher. You don't quit.

• 1:33:08Jocko Willink?

  That's what you do. And then you stand up straight with your, with your head high and your chin up and your chest out.

• 1:33:19Jocko Willink?

  And at the same time, you also stay humble.

• 1:33:25Jocko Willink?

  Cause you don't know everything. And there are people that are better than you are at some things. People that are smarter than you and they're stronger than you and faster and more athletic than you. And they have more money and they got better looks and they're funnier.

• 1:33:47Jocko Willink?

  But all that is okay.

• 1:33:51Jocko Willink?

  It's actually okay because there are things that are more important.

• 1:33:58Jocko Willink?

  More important than being strong and smart and athletic. More important than all those things.

• 1:34:08Jocko Willink?

  Things like loyalty.

• 1:34:11Jocko Willink?

  Honor.

• 1:34:14Jocko Willink?

  Will.

• 1:34:18Jocko Willink?

  Things like courage.

• 1:34:22Jocko Willink?

  The courage to stand and the will to keep going.

• 1:34:33Jocko Willink?

  And to do the right things for the right reasons.

• 1:34:41Jocko Willink?

  And if you know, if you know you won't give up.

• 1:34:48Jocko Willink?

  And you know you won't give in and if you test yourself and you fail, but you know you're gonna get back up again. If you know that.

• 1:35:00Jocko Willink?

  If you know that.

• 1:35:04Jocko Willink?

  Then you know that your character is strong and that's what matters.

• 1:35:13Jocko Willink?

  And that right there

• 1:35:18Jocko Willink?

  is all the confidence you need.

• 1:35:26Jocko Willink?

  And I think that's all I've got for tonight.

• 1:35:32Jocko Willink?

  So Echo.

• 1:35:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:35:33Jocko Willink?

  Speaking of being stronger.

• 1:35:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:35:36Jocko Willink?

  And faster.

• 1:35:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:35:37Jocko Willink?

  And doing jujitsu.

• 1:35:39Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:35:39Jocko Willink?

  And learning and just being on the path overall.

• 1:35:42Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 1:35:44Jocko Willink?

  Maybe you could give us some information on how we can effectively, efficiently move down that path.

• 1:35:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Support and support ourselves, support ourselves and support others. That's really ultimately really what it is.

• 1:35:58Jocko Willink?

  Makes it mutually supporting.

• 1:36:00Speaker 01

  Yes. So I will talk about our company. A little company in Maine called Origin. OriginMaine.com. This is where you can get Jocko Super Krill Oil. This is for your joints. Omega threes. Omega threes have a lot of benefits, valuable benefits. But the ones that I personally have reaped. Can you reap benefits?

• 1:36:25Jocko Willink?

  You absolutely can. You just can't reap the foot in IBJJF.

• 1:36:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So watch out for that. But if you are in the reaping mood, reap some benefits of Jocko Super Krill Oil by way of your joints being healthy. It's a big deal. When you're super young, like young 18, 19, 20, all the way up to I'd say like maybe 27, maybe, I don't know, maybe older. This is less of a factor, but at the end of the day, your joints are healthy. You're gonna be in a way better spot, way better spot. Than you would be if they're not. Also, another supplement called Joint Warfare. This one, I mean, they all have antioxidant stuff in them. But Joint Warfare has glucosamine and chondroitin.

• 1:37:13Speaker 01

  This is for what? Like cartilage, like tendon type stuff.

• 1:37:16Jocko Willink?

  And curcumin.

• 1:37:17Speaker 01

  Curcumin. Yeah. So you put those together, boom, the ultimate joint supplements. It's a big deal. Huge deal. Like you can be super strong. And be lifting and but you gotta warm up like for 20 sets just because your joints are all like stiff and whatever. Say, say bye to that problem. You take these.

• 1:37:39Speaker 01

  There it is. Boom. Joint supplements. Get on it. Go to orjamine.com. Also, another supplement called Discipline. This is for your brain. Makes your brain work better. It's nutrients for your brain. That's what it is. And also nutrients for your body. So it's a pre-workout. It's a pre-study. It's a pre-mission supplement called Discipline. Get down. Same, same place. Orjamine.com. Taste good too, by the way. Is other flavor out? When is other flavor out?

• 1:38:08Jocko Willink?

  Well, we're making it right now.

• 1:38:09Speaker 01

  So soon.

• 1:38:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. A little further than soon. Soon to me is like, yeah, like a little more distant than soon.

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, but we're working on it diligently. Yeah.

• 1:38:22Jocko Willink?

  That's soon to me.

• 1:38:23Speaker 01

  And it's pina colada, by the way. Oh, sorry. Sorry, sorry.

• 1:38:26Jocko Willink?

  I got a different name for it.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Uh, coconut.

• 1:38:30Jocko Willink?

  No, I got a better name for it. I'll tell you about it later.

• 1:38:33Speaker 01

  Oh, later. Okay. Secret name?

• 1:38:34Jocko Willink?

  Cause I'm not sure it's legal or not.

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  The name. Okay.

• 1:38:37Jocko Willink?

  The name I have in mind.

• 1:38:38Speaker 01

  Alright. Cool. Well, we're all very excited about the name and the taste and you know, whatnot. Pineapple coconut is the working title. Working title.

• 1:38:50Speaker 01

  There you go. Uh, cognitive and physical force multiplier. Good one. Also milk. Okay. So milk.

• 1:38:59Speaker 01

  I'm gonna say the word protein powder, but I'm not saying milk is protein powder.

• 1:39:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:05Speaker 01

  If you want some additional protein.

• 1:39:07Jocko Willink?

  It's a good way to get it.

• 1:39:09Speaker 01

  That happens to taste really, really good like a mint chocolate milkshake. Not a diet milkshake, like a mint chocolate milkshake. And you want protein, take milk. Take it every day if you want to.

• 1:39:23Jocko Willink?

  My buddy sent me a text. He goes, yeah, I saw that milk had probiotics in it.

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  Dang, eating better. Yes.

• 1:39:30Jocko Willink?

  And he said, I, he said, so I just ordered it cause I need some.

• 1:39:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:34Jocko Willink?

  And he, and he's like, holy crap. This stuff is good. I said, yeah, I know. I said, I know. And he's like, yeah, it's awesome. So anyways.

• 1:39:42Speaker 01

  Making the supersized milk, uh, shake. Yeah. Hey man, I can relate because that's literally what I do.

• 1:39:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. No, I could tell when you got on the milk train. Cause your attitude changed. You know, you went from like, oh yeah, and we've got milk. It's good, blah, blah, blah. To when you were like, hey, it's kind of a game changer. You know what's it's so filling. What's it makes it so filling?

• 1:40:10Speaker 01

  Filling?

• 1:40:11Jocko Willink?

  Like, like when you eat it, you just feel compl- or when you drink it, you feel satiated, completely satiated. That's why, you know, you know, the term meal replacement?

• 1:40:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:22Jocko Willink?

  Like, oh, we got a meal replacement.

• 1:40:24Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:40:24Jocko Willink?

  This isn't supposed to be a meal replacement. It's not supposed to be. The, the intent wasn't, okay, replace. But what happens is if you have it, like yesterday, I had one in the, in the afternoon. I had a light lunch, which was crap. I ate a crap lunch.

• 1:40:41Speaker 01

  Crap, like not as healthy?

• 1:40:42Jocko Willink?

  Not healthy.

• 1:40:43Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 1:40:44Jocko Willink?

  Little off the path. So I was feeling like, okay. And then, so in the, a little later than that, I said, you know what? I'm just gonna have some milk right now to, to, to reset the path.

• 1:40:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:55Jocko Willink?

  And then I, I got home from jujitsu last night, six hours later, didn't even barely eat anything for dinner, because I was still full.

• 1:41:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:02Jocko Willink?

  Why is that?

• 1:41:04Speaker 01

  Amen. It's, um, filling. Makes you satiated.

• 1:41:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I guess it satisfies, satisfies you on multiple fronts.

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Plus psychologically, come, come on, you kind of knew that it was the milk and you were like solid. You felt good about that. You were satisfied about that. That's probably a big, you know, factor.

• 1:41:22Jocko Willink?

  So it's not supposed to be a meal replacement, but

• 1:41:25Speaker 01

  That's not what it was engineered for.

• 1:41:27Jocko Willink?

  It wasn't engineered for, but it turns out that if you have it, you won't be that hungry because you'd be so full.

• 1:41:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it's true.

• 1:41:35Jocko Willink?

  For milk. No big deal. So it's so, it's so different. We had to create a different word for it.

• 1:41:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 1:41:42Jocko Willink?

  That's gonna be in the Oxford English Dictionary soon.

• 1:41:45Speaker 01

  I'm sure it will.

• 1:41:46Jocko Willink?

  It'll be, oh, it'll be, they'll have to define it in the O E D. You know what the O E D is? The Oxford English Dictionary.

• 1:41:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:54Jocko Willink?

  That's the real deal right there.

• 1:41:56Speaker 01

  All right, there you go.

• 1:41:57Jocko Willink?

  That's the big one.

• 1:41:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the, the big one.

• 1:41:59Jocko Willink?

  That's the mother of all dictionaries.

• 1:42:01Speaker 01

  Must be. Must be.

• 1:42:02Jocko Willink?

  It is. There is no must be.

• 1:42:04Speaker 01

  Dang, and milk is gonna be in there, you say.

• 1:42:06Jocko Willink?

  Milk's gonna have to be in there. We'll petition. We won't even have to petition for it, because people are just gonna start.

• 1:42:12Speaker 01

  That's how.

• 1:42:12Jocko Willink?

  That's just gonna be how.

• 1:42:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's just gonna be how. And really, that's how words get in the dictionary.

• 1:42:16Jocko Willink?

  I know.

• 1:42:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, just keep using it. And here's the, here's the good thing about that word, not to go off on too much of a tangent, but I will, and I don't mind doing it. With this situation.

• 1:42:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:27Speaker 01

  Molk is the actual legitimate situation. Molk, it's molk.

• 1:42:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:31Speaker 01

  But it's not like the word irregardless and you know, like misusing the word because they're not, you know, educated on that specific word. They use irregardless. Their friend uses it, their neighbor uses it, their whole community starts using it.

• 1:42:42Jocko Willink?

  Get in there too.

• 1:42:43Speaker 01

  Well, Pahana is a Hawaiian word.

• 1:42:45Jocko Willink?

  I know, but maybe we'll get it into the English dictionary.

• 1:42:47Speaker 01

  But it's not English.

• 1:42:48Jocko Willink?

  Cause that's the thing. Then the, the English dictionary is not filled with words that are only English. The whole English language is made up of other words.

• 1:42:56Speaker 01

  Gotcha.

• 1:42:56Jocko Willink?

  So we can get Pahana in there.

• 1:42:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:42:59Jocko Willink?

  And molk.

• 1:43:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:00Jocko Willink?

  Well, petition. We can't petition. You don't petition to get them in there. You actually just use the words.

• 1:43:05Speaker 01

  So like the word forte.

• 1:43:07Jocko Willink?

  I wonder if.

• 1:43:07Speaker 01

  That's my forte.

• 1:43:08Jocko Willink?

  People start trying to rip off molk.

• 1:43:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:11Jocko Willink?

  It'll be like, hey, will you Xerox me a copy of that?

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:43:14Jocko Willink?

  It'll just be the, it'll just be the way.

• 1:43:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, instead of.

• 1:43:17Jocko Willink?

  A new thing.

• 1:43:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like I'm gonna, you know, first I'm gonna work out and then like, I'm just gonna, um, I'm gonna molk.

• 1:43:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Oh, you picked me up some molk from the store? Oh, and then people will say, well, what kind of molk do you want, right?

• 1:43:32Speaker 01

  Right, yeah.

• 1:43:33Jocko Willink?

  And they won't be just be talking about it because there'll be nine different brands of molk.

• 1:43:36Speaker 01

  Okay, you're from the, uh, kind of the east way is New England east coast, is that technically?

• 1:43:41Jocko Willink?

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:43:41Speaker 01

  Is it considered, okay, so do, do, did you grow up in a place where they say cokes?

• 1:43:46Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:43:46Speaker 01

  Or pop?

• 1:43:47Jocko Willink?

  We call it soda. We call it soda.

• 1:43:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, we call it soda too. So I've, so soda, okay, that's normal to me in, you know, as far as my experience goes. And then there's pop. You've heard pop, obviously?

• 1:43:58Jocko Willink?

  Pop, that's like the Midwest.

• 1:43:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:44:00Jocko Willink?

  Ohio.

• 1:44:00Speaker 01

  And then there's coke.

• 1:44:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:44:02Speaker 01

  Like coke, uh, not the brand coke.

• 1:44:04Jocko Willink?

  Coke, yeah.

• 1:44:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, what kind, yeah.

• 1:44:07Jocko Willink?

  Sprite.

• 1:44:09Jocko Willink?

  You know, whatever.

• 1:44:10Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly.

• 1:44:11Jocko Willink?

  I had to do this, uh, when I was going to college, I had to, they wanted us to get the words for what, okay, what do you call? If you get an ice cream cone and you get little flavored tiny bits all over it, what do you call those little flavored bits?

• 1:44:29Speaker 01

  Oh, sprinkles.

• 1:44:30Jocko Willink?

  Okay, sprinkles, that's that's one of the standards. There's a, there's some people that call them jimmies.

• 1:44:36Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:44:37Jocko Willink?

  Okay. My wife's from England.

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:44:40Jocko Willink?

  And I, and so I did this to her. So we had that, we, we had a bunch of words that were broken out that people call different things like soda pop. What, what do you call this? What do you call that? Where are you from? What do you call this? What do you call that? I did this with my wife and I actually luckily recorded it because I knew it would be interesting.

• 1:44:55Speaker 01

  How'd you record it?

• 1:44:57Jocko Willink?

  Like on a tape recorder?

• 1:44:58Speaker 01

  No kidding, tape recorder, old school.

• 1:45:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and then I go and I, so I asked my wife, you know, what do you call the things that you put on an ice cream cone? That are little different colors and they're little tiny bits of sugary candy? What would you call those? And she, without missing a beat, she goes, hundreds and thousands. Hundreds and thousands.

• 1:45:17Speaker 01

  Pretty dope.

• 1:45:18Jocko Willink?

  Hundreds and thousands. I started laughing.

• 1:45:20Speaker 01

  Kind of a mouthful.

• 1:45:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, hundreds and thousands, yeah.

• 1:45:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, there's no, and then I said, because, okay, what do you call?

• 1:45:29Jocko Willink?

  Ham, mayonnaise, lettuce on a long bun? That's, what do you call that?

• 1:45:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:37Jocko Willink?

  What kind of sandwich is that?

• 1:45:38Speaker 01

  Me, uh, there's no specific, but I get it. I don't call it a hoagie.

• 1:45:43Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:45:44Speaker 01

  But I don't know, like a sub sandwich or something, maybe?

• 1:45:47Jocko Willink?

  Sub, we used to call it a grinder.

• 1:45:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've never heard of that.

• 1:45:51Jocko Willink?

  It's like a New England grinder, get it, I want to get a grinder. But my, my wife calls it a bap.

• 1:45:57Speaker 01

  A bap?

• 1:45:58Jocko Willink?

  Bap, ham bap. And this, she's like, I said, what do you call that thing? And she's like, oh, it's a bap, ham bap, cheese bap.

• 1:46:07Jocko Willink?

  Anyways.

• 1:46:08Speaker 01

  And what's that, just a long sandwich?

• 1:46:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's a long, look at the subway sandwich.

• 1:46:11Speaker 01

  Sub, like a sub club, sub.

• 1:46:13Jocko Willink?

  So at some point, people are just gonna say molk and that's gonna have a meaning.

• 1:46:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:18Jocko Willink?

  Beyond just what we have right now.

• 1:46:20Speaker 01

  Specifically.

• 1:46:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, because people will be making it, everyone's gonna be trying to make it.

• 1:46:24Speaker 01

  Sure, sure. It's gonna be just so common.

• 1:46:26Jocko Willink?

  You know what it's gonna be, it's like, oh, you'll have, it's gonna replace, let's say it replaces lunch. Like, oh, like, oh yeah, I eat three meals a day. Breakfast, molk and dinner.

• 1:46:36Jocko Willink?

  Right, oh, what are you gonna have? Oh, yeah. Hey, they're gonna come over for Molk later on.

• 1:46:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:41Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 1:46:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:41Jocko Willink?

  Hey, are guys coming over tonight to have some Molk and watch the game?

• 1:46:44Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:46:45Jocko Willink?

  Have some Molk's?

• 1:46:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:46Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 1:46:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're gonna look on kids' elementary school schedule and be like, boom, you know, recess and then, you know, eleven thirty Molk and then, you know, boom, history, you know, yeah, I got you, man.

• 1:46:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's where it's going.

• 1:46:59Speaker 01

  The horn's gonna sound, Molk break, right?

• 1:47:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah. Pauhana, let's go get some milk.

• 1:47:03Speaker 01

  For some, it's pauhana.

• 1:47:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, that's what I said. A lot of times on the, my part of the island, we called it a little bit different.

• 1:47:09Speaker 01

  Oh, you're right, right, that's it. I got, I got you, man.

• 1:47:11Jocko Willink?

  I have the New England Hawaiian accent. Alright, so that's Molk.

• 1:47:16Speaker 01

  Molk, okay, boom. Yeah, Molk, that's a good one. Get your, get your hands on some of that, you're good. Yeah, pauhana. And I didn't analyze, it means finish work. It means when you're done work, you're pauhana.

• 1:47:27Jocko Willink?

  Oh, I know exactly what it is, dude. Come on.

• 1:47:30Speaker 01

  It's for the people, maybe they, they didn't, you know?

• 1:47:32Jocko Willink?

  Explain that to me.

• 1:47:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, but if you say pau, P-A-U.

• 1:47:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  Sounds like P-O, P-O-W, like pau pau. That means finish. Literal direct translation, are you pau?

• 1:47:45Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 1:47:45Speaker 01

  Are you finished? Eh, I pau.

• 1:47:48Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 1:47:49Speaker 01

  I'm finished.

• 1:47:49Jocko Willink?

  Definitely.

• 1:47:50Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:47:51Jocko Willink?

  That's how I always used it.

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  Hana means like, you do, like, you're doing, no, you're doing, it means doing. Like, if you say hanaho, that means let's do it again, you know, whatever it is. Or like if some, usually they say, well, a common place they say it is, like if a band is playing and it's like a dope song and they killed it, they say hanaho means like, play it again, play it again, man.

• 1:48:12Jocko Willink?

  I remember yelling that when I was a kid.

• 1:48:14Speaker 01

  Or if you go, or if you go do something fun and you guys are done, you say your goodbyes to your friends, and you say what, tomorrow, hanaho, means you wanna do that thing tomorrow. It's good.

• 1:48:26Jocko Willink?

  Again, yeah.

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, unless, back to Origin, our company, Origin, made in America, by the way, this stuff, good stuff, including geese for jujitsu. Starting jujitsu, you ask, ask me, ask Jocko, whatever, if you, if you ask me or Jocko, what gi do you get? Here it is. Uncompromised, not uncompromised, no exception.

• 1:48:52Speaker 01

  No exception that I can think of anyway. You get an Orjin gi for many, many reasons. I'm not gonna go into all of them. But they are made in America and they're made for jujitsu. Sounds weird, right? Like, what do you mean? It's a jujitsu gi. It's made for jujitsu. Eh, not as much as the Orjin gi. That's the thing. You have a jujitsu guy who is an expert in textiles manufacturing. Some fashion. I know, I know, but it's part of it. And he's like, you know what? I'm gonna make a gi for jujitsu, for doing jujitsu in. You know, not just, hey, a gi, which is cool, and you can use it for jujitsu. Let's make a bunch of blanks and whatever brands can buy them from us and, you know,

• 1:49:34Speaker 01

  just kind of this thing and we'll ship into them in the US. No, it's not that. Pete made jujitsu gis for jujitsu, shaped for jujitsu, woven for jujitsu.

• 1:49:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's, that's an important part.

• 1:49:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, so when you put it on, you do the jujitsu.

• 1:49:48Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And when you put it in the dryer, it actually dries.

• 1:49:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, which is even, so this-

• 1:49:53Jocko Willink?

  Which is totally different.

• 1:49:55Speaker 01

  So this gi, these gis, all of them, perform when you're doing jujitsu and when you're not doing jujitsu.

• 1:50:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:01Speaker 01

  Boom, there it is. And all made in America. Did I mention that? Everything, even the threads are made in America. Even the cotton is grown in America.

• 1:50:07Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:50:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, most of us already know that, but I'm gonna say it again because some of us don't necessarily know that. Now we do.

• 1:50:12Jocko Willink?

  It's pretty cool when you're putting on a gi and you know the people that actually made it.

• 1:50:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:18Jocko Willink?

  That's legit.

• 1:50:19Speaker 01

  Made it, yeah.

• 1:50:20Jocko Willink?

  Very legit. When you're, when you know you're supporting the economic growth of this country.

• 1:50:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:50:29Jocko Willink?

  And at the same time, you're getting the best possible gi you can get.

• 1:50:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:33Jocko Willink?

  I'd say that's 100% positive. That's a win-win across the board.

• 1:50:36Speaker 01

  Win-win across the board and everyone's kind of in the game together. You have that additional, like, additional feeling situation. That's my opinion. That's my experience, anyway. Also, rash guards. These are good rash guards, by the way. Um, well, then again, good, hmm, good rash guards, is that just a matter of opinion? Okay, WordMaine.com. Look at the rash guards. You'll like one. Get one of those. Boom.

• 1:51:03Speaker 01

  Also, the immersion camp, Jiu Jitsu immersion camp, one of the best ways to learn anything, including but not limited to Jiu Jitsu, is to immerse yourself in it. So, if you want to immerse yourself in Jiu Jitsu, you can on August 26th. Two sessions, you can go from the 26th, 27th, 28th, 29th, and then the second session, the 30th through the 2nd, September 2nd. Or you can do it all, either way, immerse yourself in Jiu Jitsu. Dean is going, is Dean going?

• 1:51:35Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:51:35Speaker 01

  So Dean Lister is going, Jocko is going, I'm going, Leif's going, Leif Babbin is going, Dave Burke's going, good deal Dave, and JP's going. So, maybe Mike and Flynn, as far as the Echelon Front.

• 1:51:53Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, Mike and Flynn aren't going.

• 1:51:56Speaker 01

  Maybe, maybe not.

• 1:51:57Jocko Willink?

  No, I'm telling them they're not.

• 1:51:58Speaker 01

  So maybe not.

• 1:51:59Jocko Willink?

  No, not.

• 1:52:00Speaker 01

  Not going, okay, got you, I understand now. Okay, either way, we're all gonna be there, and if the question is, I don't have any Jiu Jitsu at all, I don't have any Jiu Jitsu at all, do I go to a Jiu Jitsu camp?

• 1:52:13Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:52:14Speaker 01

  The answer is yes.

• 1:52:14Jocko Willink?

  Andy's going too, it looks like.

• 1:52:16Speaker 01

  Okay, Andy Burke.

• 1:52:17Jocko Willink?

  Andy Burke, we'll be training hardcore for ADCC. And, oh yeah, somebody asked if, if there's an, is there a chance to go see the factory where everything's made?

• 1:52:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:52:27Jocko Willink?

  And the answer is affirmative, uh, middle of the week, Wednesday, in between Jiu Jitsu sessions, go to the factory, you know, get to see everything, get to meet the people that make everything, it's awesome.

• 1:52:38Speaker 01

  Yes, very much so. That's a good little hangout spot, too, last time we were there, we were kinda hanging out there for a little bit. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it was kinda fun. But yeah, it's a good one, that's gonna be a good one, eat some lobster too, if you like lobster, I don't know, some people don't like lobsters, so whatever, maybe that's about the draw. Yeah, eat some steak, boom, all good, good camp, Camp Echo Lake, Layers, in Maine. I'll see you there. Also, for fitness gear, onit.com/jaco, good kettlebells on there.

• 1:53:08Speaker 01

  The best kettlebells? Hmm, matter of opinion. My opinion, yes, 100%. The only kettlebells I have, Onnit kettlebells, and I think I have more or less all of them. All of them except that this teeny tiny small ones.

• 1:53:19Jocko Willink?

  In one series or all of them? All of them?

• 1:53:23Speaker 01

  All of them, all of them.

• 1:53:24Jocko Willink?

  Do you have the zombie ones?

• 1:53:25Speaker 01

  Zombie ones. Well, some of them were sold out. So aside from the sold out ones, yes. Oh, actually, I don't have Star Wars ones yet.

• 1:53:32Jocko Willink?

  You're getting them.

• 1:53:33Speaker 01

  But here's the thing. Yeah, see, so that's the thing.

• 1:53:35Jocko Willink?

  So you just don't care. You're just in the game.

• 1:53:37Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, a little bit.

• 1:53:39Jocko Willink?

  You get different inspired for Boba Fett?

• 1:53:41Speaker 01

  Yes, depends on the workout. But here's the thing. Here's the thing, I'll be honest. Like, if I do have the same weight, maybe I'll get one and one, you know, because I have double of everything. But.

• 1:53:51Jocko Willink?

  Wait, double meaning four total kettlebells?

• 1:53:53Speaker 01

  Two, sorry, two.

• 1:53:54Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:53:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, two. Each one for each hand. You know, you do the double handed situations. Yeah, those are dope. Good thing too about Onnit.com, the website, is the information on there.

• 1:54:05Speaker 01

  Health, various philosophies and pursuits of, you know, exercises and workout programs. Like depending on what you want to do, stuff like that. Good information about the products too. Also, socks. I know, seems like a small deal, I know, but I just got some and they're dope and they're kind of like, you know how like when you're going through the airport, right? You got to take off your shoes. Some of us, some of us, you know, I know, I get it. Some people, they don't got to take off their shoes. But when you got to take off your shoes and you kind of have your socks one time. So I was going through, I had the Onnit socks on. I felt kind of some, because it felt dope, because they're kind of dope. They look dope, you know? See what I'm saying?

• 1:54:43Jocko Willink?

  Whole situation.

• 1:54:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, bruh, get some socks and go travel. Report back. Anyway, Onnit.com slash Jocko, a lot of, a lot of real good stuff on there. Improve yourself. Also, when you are shopping or when you're gonna shop for any of the books that Jocko recommends, including Jocko's books, by the way, Extreme Ownership, the updated one, Way to Worry Kid, both of them, Discipline Equals Freedom, Field Manual, best kind of field man, or best kind of manual, by the way, field manual. Kind you can read in the field. Anyway, when you're shopping for any of these books, I got them organized on JacoPodcast.com. Jocko's books are on the front page, right there, kind of in plain view. Marie designed the website, by the way, but this is gonna stay the same. I have a page, though.

• 1:55:31Speaker 01

  Jocko Podcast Books, or Books From The Episodes is what it's called. Anyway, top menu, click on there, they're all organized by episode. Authors listed there with the title, boom, click through there, boom, good way to support, buy it, get your books, get your other stuff from Amazon, whatever you're getting.

• 1:55:48Speaker 01

  Good way to support. People don't think that's a big deal, it's a big deal. Just that small little action

• 1:55:57Speaker 01

  has a big reaction. Kind of like, remember dropping a piece of sodium in water. People have been reminding me of that analogy recently. No, we haven't talked about it in a while. You drop a piece of sodium in water, it explodes, it's huge. Small action by dropping a small little thing, big reaction, sodium. Fair enough. There you go, revisit that one. Anyway, also, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already, on iTunes, and Stitcher, and Google Play, and/or wherever else you listen to podcasts. A lot of podcast apps, so subscribe, good way to support. Also, subscribe on YouTube for the video version of this podcast. It's something, would I call it important?

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  The video version? Sure, if you want to know what Jocko looks like, if you don't know, or you want to know what I look like, if you want to know what the guests look like, because that, I think, is gonna pique your curiosity more, so, that's my opinion. Anyway, point there is, video version of the podcast, also excerpts on there, we'll put on there, you know, for, you know, you want to share some lessons that Jocko talks about with your friends, online, email it to them, whatever, Facebook, whatever. And, you know, they're more likely to listen to a little excerpt than maybe a three-hour podcast on something, and sift through that one lesson you wanted them to learn, you see what I'm saying? Anyway, YouTube, subscribe if you want, good way to support. Also, Jocko's Store, it's called Jocko Store. This is where you can get the shirts, the very shirt that Jocko is wearing right now.

• 1:57:29Speaker 01

  You can have that exact shirt, exact shirt, if you want, if that even means anything to you. But, I think the shirts are cool, discipline equals freedom, get after, you know, you want to represent in your part of the world, in the field, in the wild. That's where you can get them, jacostore.com, there's Wim stuff on there as well, and patches, hats, two kinds of hats, truckers and flex fit. They're good, they came out good, I think. So go on there, let me know what you think. If you think they're good, get something. If you don't think they're good, let me know how I can improve, how we can improve collectively. The hat situations, people are very vocal. We invite them to be vocal if they think of a, a, a, a product. Or a shirt design or something.

• 1:58:14Speaker 01

  And I encourage that. Also rash guards on there, good, cool rash guards. Nineteen percent increase in performance, what we used to preach. You know what? I'm gonna go and continue preaching that. Also. Psychological warfare. I'll tell you what this is if you don't know. It's an album with tracks of Jocko on there. Each track, not singing, he's saying stuff. And this is what he's saying. If you're having, okay, if you're having we, uh, moments of weakness on your kind of pursuit. Your campaign against weakness is what we're calling it. Having trouble wake up, waking up in the morning every once in a while, or you're, you're feeling, you don't feel like working out. I know, we know that if you don't feel like working out, you still work out.

• 1:58:56Speaker 01

  That's the, the deal. You still work out even if you don't, but every once in a while, you really don't feel like doing it. Or you're so caught up in this other thing and you kind of play games with your mind. You're like, you know what? I could skip the workout and it's justified, literally justified because I would get this other work done that I'm working on right now. That's another one. But you listen to this, Jocko, Jocko will tell you this track. Well, we, one of the tracks on, on the album, you listen to it, Jocko will tell you why you shouldn't skip the workout. And guess what? You won't skip the workout. Hundred percent effective. Psychological warfare is what it's called. Jocko Willink, it's on iTunes or Amazon or whatever you can buy it, wherever you buy MP3s. That's where you can get it. Good way to support.

• 1:59:38Jocko Willink?

  Check. Also, you can get. Jocko White Tea. You can get it dry. In little tea bags and that's cool. And now you can also get it in a can. Cans of Jocko White Tea.

• 1:59:55Jocko Willink?

  Tastes really good. And more important, gives you an eight thousand pound deadlift, which is, you know, not a big deal, but it's something. So, uh, no more of the sugar filled, chemical laced crappy energy drinks. Those are gone. No more. Those days are over. Instead, it's time for Jocko White Tea in a can.

• 2:00:18Jocko Willink?

  Uh, books. You mentioned them. Way the Warrior Kid series.

• 2:00:24Jocko Willink?

  Getting kids on the path now. Discipline, hard work, respect. The path to getting stronger, smarter, faster, and better. And if you don't believe me. If you don't believe me.

• 2:00:39Jocko Willink?

  Check out my, uh, my social media. Check out my Twitter. And you'll see kids, kids. Working out, cleaning their rooms voluntarily, studying voluntarily, doing book reports voluntarily. Check it out. It's awesome.

• 2:00:58Jocko Willink?

  You can. See it there. Get your kids on the path. Get your neighbors' kids on the path and get your, your nieces and nephews on the path.

• 2:01:09Jocko Willink?

  Also, a path of a warrior kid that's all about hard work. You can go to Irishoaksranch.com and get some soap made by Warrior Kid Aiden. He started his own business.

• 2:01:20Speaker 01

  Yep. I got some. It's dope.

• 2:01:22Jocko Willink?

  It's good to go. He gets it from goat milk.

• 2:01:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. And let me add about the soap. The, again, I said this before. It's important to understand too with, with, you know how you get like the, your neighbor, whatever, they make their little designer soap. Maybe they looked it up on YouTube or how to make it. Or whatever. They put their perfumes in and they wrap it up in a nice little net wrapping with a little ribbon on it. It's cool. I dig it. I dig it. But you don't really use that soap. You know, it's like, alright, I'm not gonna use your soap. I mean, thanks. You know, and I got a soap, decorative piece, whatever. It's not that kind of soap. It's like legit. So you go use this soap.

• 2:01:59Jocko Willink?

  I didn't even think to say that because I thought everyone knew. I guess people get suspect because he's a young kid.

• 2:02:06Speaker 01

  Maybe. Or you just hear like, oh, special soap. I don't know. Then depending on your experience, I'm sure people don't give you decorative soap items.

• 2:02:15Jocko Willink?

  No, they don't.

• 2:02:15Speaker 01

  Regularly.

• 2:02:16Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 2:02:17Speaker 01

  No. Okay.

• 2:02:18Jocko Willink?

  But the good thing about this soap, from my opinion, it's all about function and this soap will help you stay clean.

• 2:02:23Speaker 01

  Yes, sir.

• 2:02:24Jocko Willink?

  Uh, the Discipline Equals Freedom field manual. You can give the gift of discipline. You know, if you know someone that's like sort of maybe got a foot off the path.

• 2:02:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:02:34Jocko Willink?

  That's a person that's right for the Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual.

• 2:02:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:37Jocko Willink?

  That's a person that you go, hey, man, I just got this book, man. Give it a, just take a look at it.

• 2:02:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:42Jocko Willink?

  Just take a look at it.

• 2:02:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:44Jocko Willink?

  It doesn't look normal.

• 2:02:45Speaker 01

  Nope, it looks actually pretty dope.

• 2:02:47Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and then they read something. And then they say, oh, you know what?

• 2:02:53Jocko Willink?

  Gets them back on the path. If you want the audio version of that, it's Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. It's, it's not on Audible. It's on iTunes, Amazon Music, Google Play, other MP3 platforms. That's where it's at. Also for leadership, Extreme Ownership is a leadership book. For the battlefield, for business, and for life. Now, the Audible version of that is available on Audible, and it is me reading it. And it's Leif Babbin reading it, otherwise known as Texas Batman, because he talks it. How you doing?

• 2:03:25Jocko Willink?

  So if you want to hear us read it, not just reading it, but there's also sound effects, some sound effects. We didn't go overboard, even though we were tempted. We had to pull the reins a little bit. But I don't know why I didn't very, talk about this very much, but yeah, check it out. The Audible version of that book. Also, due September 25th. The follow-on book to Extreme Ownership, it's called The Dichotomy of Leadership. It's available for preorder. Right now, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, local bookstore. If you want that first edition, version, which you do, then order it now. That way, the, the publishing company, who's lagging, doesn't get it,

• 2:04:09Jocko Willink?

  living in the Stone Ages, they won't print enough. And then you won't get a copy. It'll take an extra week. They gotta print more. Like happened with the Warrior Kid books, like happened with the first Extreme Ownership, like happened with Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. They ran out. If you preorder it, they won't run out. So preorder it. And if you need support at your business or your team, we have Echelon Front.

• 2:04:34Jocko Willink?

  It's me, Leif Babin, JP Denell, Dave Burke. Our website is echelonfront.com and we solve problems through leadership. That's what we do. All the problems you have in your business, in your team, in your organization, the problems that you have, all of them are leadership problems. All of them. That's a bold statement to make, isn't it? Yes, it is. And it's factual. You're not going to solve those problems through spreadsheets. You're going to solve those problems through leadership.

• 2:05:03Jocko Willink?

  So, let us know if you need some help. And of course, there's the muster. We've done five musters so far, all of them sold out. The last one we did in DC was nuts. It was awesome. Lot of knowledge that's getting put out, lot of intensity. There's one more muster in 2018. It's muster 006 in San Francisco, October 17th and 18th. It is going to sell out as well. Don't get mad when you can't go because it's sold out. Go and register, extremeownership.com. And also for current military, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, border patrol, other first responders, we got roll call 001 September 21st in Dallas, Texas. It's a focused one day leadership training seminar.

• 2:05:49Jocko Willink?

  And it's aimed at people in uniform. Then you can also register for that at extremeownership.com. And until the muster in San Francisco, or the roll call, or the immersion camp in Maine.

• 2:06:03Jocko Willink?

  If you want to maintain contact with us, you can find us on the interwebs. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink. And to those of you that are wearing the uniform out there on the front lines right now, thank you for keeping evil at bay. And the vets that have already served, thank you for doing your share. And to the first responders, police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, border patrol. Thanks to all of you for staying ready, staying alert, staying strong and keeping us safe here at home. And

• 2:06:42Jocko Willink?

  to the families of all that serve, thank you for your sacrifice as your loved ones serve us. And to the rest of you out there.

• 2:06:55Jocko Willink?

  Thanks for listening. Thanks for supporting. You actually make this podcast possible. So, thank you, but never mind all that. Thanks for doing what you do every day. Thanks for waking up early and staying up late. Thanks for putting in the hours, the long hours, grinding, working, making things happen, standing up when the hard times come.

• 2:07:26Jocko Willink?

  And they come.

• 2:07:30Jocko Willink?

  You're not alone. The hard times come to all of us. And when they do, stand up.

• 2:07:38Jocko Willink?

  Grit your teeth.

• 2:07:42Jocko Willink?

  And get after it.

• 2:07:45Jocko Willink?

  Until next time. This is Echo and Jocko. Out.