Dejounte Murray NBA star reveals his journey from the streets of Seattle to stardom—battling trauma, surviving violence, finding salvation in basketball, the life-changing impact of Coach Popovich, and his future with the New Orleans Pelicans.

"When you went through what I went through, there’s nothing to celebrate about that…I look back at all of it, there’s nothing cool about it, I’m hurt from all of it. I have real trauma and pain inside of me from all of that.” Dejounte Murray In this powerful episode of The Pivot Podcast, NBA guard Dejounte Murray sits down with Ryan Clark, Fred Taylor, and Channing Crowder for a raw, emotional, and reflective conversation on how as a young man he defied odds making it off the Seattle streets to becoming a basketball star to choosing an unlikely life path that forever changed him. Dejounte reveals what it was like growing up in a tough environment, detailing experiences with violence, homelessness, and parental incarceration as he shared how these hardships fueled his determination to succeed and provided the foundation for his resilience on and off the court. With pain and hurt in his voice, Dejounte find the words to share with the guys on the healing process of what he did in his early life, what he witnessed and how survivor's remorse eats at him, saying how everyone he knew from home is either in jail or deceased, and he starts most of his mornings by emailing his friends and relatives who are in prison. Overcoming the unimaginable as he explains how he went from catching a criminal case at 11 years old, to juvenile detention to playing one year of college basketball before being drafted in the first round by the San Antonio Spurs. Discussing his NBA journey and reflecting on lessons learned, Dejounte shares how instrumental his time was with the Spurs, specifically Coach Popovich, who was more than a coach and served as his first real father-figure guiding him through the ups and downs of life. He talked about the pressure of being a young player in a storied franchise, the complexities of team dynamics, transitioning to the Atlanta Hawks, dealing with injuries, setbacks and now trying to navigate life and basketball playing with the New Orleans Pelicans, his latest NBA home. Ryan gets into the growth and maturity sides of life, as Dejounte is unique in he doesn't drink, do drugs, party and very rarely seen outside in a public setting. Committed to his family, being a father and the game he loves so much, Dejounte isn't willing to risk any outside factor messing up this gift of life outside what he used to know and doesn't want anything to interfere with his healing. A heart-wrenching conversation at times, but one definitely worth listening to as Dejounte's courage to open up on overcoming life-changing obstacles, and the pivotal moments that shaped his path to success, will impact you in ways you never thought possible. This is more than a sports story—it’s a story of resilience, redemption, and rising above. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more unfiltered conversations every week. Thank you to our friends at Monarch Money for sponsoring this episode, Check them out here and use code PIVOT to get 50% off your first year. https://www.monarchmoney.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer. It's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:30Ryan Clark?

  New Orleans Pelicans Dejounte Murray is headed into his 10th year in the NBA. The one-time All-Star and defensive disruptor is recovering from an ACL tear that ended his season prematurely. But that's not the sort of healing that he's focused on today. Dejounte grew up in the South End area of Seattle. Games, drugs, poverty, and death were all he knew. And he was a product of this environment. His mom was in and out of jail and his dad was just in and out. He was arrested for the first time at the age of 11. All of his childhood friends are either dead or in jail. So how did Dejounte make it out? Simply put, basketball. Still, the guilt of survivor's remorse haunts him daily. The long, lanky baller doesn't talk much, and he's still working on opening up about his trauma.

• 1:14Ryan Clark?

  He doesn't go out, he doesn't drink or smoke. He finds his joy in his kids, his girl, and hooping. With mentors and father figures like Greg Popovich and new Spurs head coach Mitchell Robinson stepping up to guide him, the game actually saved his life. There's a reason he made it, and there's a reason this story is so powerful. Today, he sits with me, Fred, and Channing to share this life-changing journey. So now, welcome Dejounte Murray to the Pivot for Men's Mental Health Awareness Month.

• 1:42Channing Crowder?

  What's up, doc? Boy, them boys long, long.

• 1:47Ryan Clark?

  So he a defender, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:51Channing Crowder?

  Them boys long, it be crazy.

• 1:53Ryan Clark?

  How else you gonna get around?

• 1:55Channing Crowder?

  I just tell you, man, the people look at them dudes out there with them seven footers be like, oh, he a little dude. Them NBA dudes gonna be little. All y'all bounces.

• 2:03Speaker 03

  Especially this day and age, for sure.

• 2:05Ryan Clark?

  But you know, the game changes so much, too. He'll be out there standing next to Wimby.

• 2:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09Ryan Clark?

  You know what I'm saying? Of course, he a foot shorter.

• 2:11Channing Crowder?

  They be like, these small.

• 2:13Fred Taylor?

  What you love about the NO? You hit RCL for some spots to check out?

• 2:18Speaker 03

  Not yet, man. It was different so far. I ain't really get to get the experience, man. I ain't really get it yet, so. I was under the radar and I had a lot going on, so. That's your man right there. For sure, yeah.

• 2:29Ryan Clark?

  I got him.

• 2:29Speaker 03

  Nah, he told me.

• 2:30Ryan Clark?

  Hit him up.

• 2:51Ryan Clark?

  Well, man, Dejounte Murray, man, welcome to the show. I've been wanting to do this for a long time, I mean, you know that. Channing Crowder, Fred Taylor, Ryan Clark, Pivot fam, thank you for pivoting with us. We were talking about it walking in, but I told you I had talked to Jamal.

• 3:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:05Ryan Clark?

  You know, and I was like, damn, bro, like, y'all really be hooping.

• 3:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:08Ryan Clark?

  In Seattle, and he was so excited that we were gonna talk. And the first thing he says, he's like, yeah, man, that's the rose that grew from the concrete. You know, and there's so much tied into basketball there, but your story is a lot deeper. When you look back, man, at some of the things that you've been through, how do you think that shaped your, I'm not partying, I'm not smoking, I'm not drinking perspective? Because you could have went the entire other way.

• 3:37Speaker 03

  Well, first, before I answer that, I gotta give y'all your flowers. You know, I appreciate what y'all do, you know what I'm saying? Y'all got a voice, you know, it's important for, you know, men, women, and most importantly, our youth, you know, they need positivity. So I see everything y'all do from y'all's careers and, you know, I just wanna give y'all your flowers, you know.

• 3:58Ryan Clark?

  We appreciate that.

• 3:59Speaker 03

  Before we start, you know what I'm saying? So, just had to do that. But nah, man, it's, honestly, I still feel like I'm in a dream, man. Like, I ain't, I haven't had the time to really just sit down and just realize, like, where I came from, knowing.

• 4:18Speaker 03

  I got a long ways to go, but just where I'm at today. You know, I just, I, I, I really don't, I don't know. Like, I really feel like I'm dreaming. I tell my boys, I tell my lady, even my daughter, my oldest, she's seven now. So, you know, able to tell, to have conversations with her. It's, it's, it's a deep story, man. Like, it's real deep and I'm trying to heal from it. And what I mean, I'm trying to heal from it, like, that's why I told you before. Like, I don't really do interviews, man. Like, I, I gotta heal. I gotta find myself completely. I gotta, you know, be at peace with myself with the stuff that I was around, the stuff I was involved with. To, to sum it up a little bit, now, obviously, we'll get going, but to sum it up a little bit, like, you know, everybody I grew up with is dead or in prison. You know what I'm saying?

• 5:01Speaker 03

  Like, basketball was my only way, like, straight up. Like, basketball, like, I, I talk to my brothers in prison every day, every day, whether it's on the app or, you know, answering phones. I'm going to visit my brother in prison four or five days. It's unbelievable. But for me, I just know as a kid, for myself, I looked up to the drug dealers, the gang members. Now, I get to watch my, my kids, my, my nieces, nephews, little cousins say, you know, we want, we want to be like you.

• 5:31Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 5:32Speaker 03

  And that, like, it damn near make me shed a tear. You know what I'm saying? Because I knew how hard it was for all of us. And I feel like that was our sacrifice, you know, so they could live. You know what I'm saying? And be able to do the right things and know the right things. Because all we knew was the wrong things. You know, majority of it, just, you know, me trying to heal from it, you know? You know, that's, that's really it. But honestly, I feel like I'm in a dream, man. It just don't feel real at all.

• 5:56Ryan Clark?

  I do want to tell you, you know, first off, thank you for what you said, but that's been the best thing about this show.

• 6:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:03Ryan Clark?

  And it's not very often that people sit down and the first thing they say is that they do understand they need to heal.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:11Ryan Clark?

  I don't think we talk about it in our community enough. I don't think we talk about it as black men enough. And there are going to be some people, man, who watch this and learn what you went through and hear you say, nah, I'm still healing from it, that get some sort of comfort from that, man. So, I appreciate you sharing that right off of the back, unprompted, for real.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 6:31Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 6:32Channing Crowder?

  We heard the stories, the homelessness, juvenile, all that stuff, bruh. Just take us through your side of it. We haven't heard it from your side.

• 6:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:42Channing Crowder?

  And you hear the story, so take it through your side. But like you're saying, what are you healing from? That's the craziest part is that you hear these little snippets, but you're not supposed to be where you are.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:56Channing Crowder?

  What did you have to go through to make that thought? Like you just said, it's surreal to you. What did you have to go through to get where you are?

• 7:04Speaker 03

  Just starting, like, you gotta understand, for me, like, the cameras had always been for me to like, how can I find peace with what I had to go through? You know, what I've done. And it's never been a knock to like, I don't wanna do interviews. I feel like that ain't nothing wrong with it. You know what I'm saying? But at the same time, real life matters. You know, we can hop on Instagram and Twitters and just social media in general and forget about real life. For me, it's always been real life for me from day one. Uh, you know, before I was blessed to be in the position I am, you know, all the way back to the struggle, it was always real life, survival mode. As a kid, I grew up around my grandma. Uh, you know, my mom did a lot of prison time.

• 7:49Speaker 03

  So, you know, my dad was on and off. I never knew what it feel like to have a mom and dad, you know, in the same household. And it just, it just was rocky for me. This is something new, uh, that I'mma say, like, my uncles. I love my uncles, you know, on both sides. But mainly, you know, the ones that was there, I was with around a lot was my mom's brothers, whether it was younger or older. And, you know, they, they stepped up. They was teenagers. And they seen the pain I was dealing with, you know, at three, four years old, knowing what drugs were, knowing that my mom was in prison. You know, you couldn't tell me she was on vacation, none of that. Like, I knew my mom was in prison. I'd go visit my mom in prison. I'd cry myself while I couldn't leave the prison after visiting her. You know what I'm saying?

• 8:32Speaker 03

  Sleeping in a sleeping bag on the floor for years, not having clothes, you know. Love my grandmother to death, you know, and I can only imagine how hard it was for her. You know, she had her own children, but she took in a lot of her grandchildren. And it's just like, I think the taking in, for me, was enough. Now, mature, older, and going back in those times. You know, you could fall into the, oh, I didn't get this and I didn't get these shoes. And she kept a roof over my head, you know? We were section A living, whether it was here, there, there, there. She made sure I was there and I wasn't in child custody, because that was the route I was going. And it takes a real woman, you know, to stand up and say, nah, I'm gonna take that responsibility. For me, it was just tough, always, always.

• 9:16Speaker 03

  And, you know, I tell the story of my uncle, man. Like, there was a time where I was with my uncle, always with my uncle. His name's Ruben. Even though I'm the one that's famous, rich, like, he's the king of the family. You know what I'm saying? Like, he's always, he gave his all. He sacrificed his life, going to college, everything, just for us. You know what I'm saying? The whole family. And, you know, I just remember a moment, I was about, what, seven, eight years old? And I was in the car with him and all his partners. And we end up just driving, we're going to my cousin's house. And a real situation happened. And, you know, we got pulled over and there was about eight guns drawn on us.

• 9:59Speaker 03

  And just from that moment, I remember that moment. And that moment is gonna get to make you guys understand where I'm going, you know, and the pattern I'm going. But that moment was like, it was a real moment for me. You know, as an eight-year-old sitting in that front seat with him and not knowing what's going on. And I think just from that moment, it happened to be crazy that we had a cousin that was in the car, at the other car, you know, that ended up getting out, stopping, like, nah, he's my cousin, he's my cousin. And if it wasn't for that moment, like, I wouldn't be sitting here with y'all. An eight-year-old would've got killed in a crossfire or something we had nothing to do with. You know what I'm saying?

• 10:38Speaker 03

  And, you know, from that moment on, it kinda opened my eyes as an eight-year-old, like, damn, this is what's going on outside of the house, you know? Because we grew up in a neighborhood in the house. We never really had cars and none of that stuff to move around. It was walking and getting on the bus. So, you know, for me, it was always a certain distance that we went. That was like, you know, one of the real moments for me. You know, an eight-year-old seeing that. And then from that moment, I'm like, I'll never be in that situation again. Like, I'm gonna forever protect myself, you know? And even though we were protected by God, and I'm here to tell this story. And this is the first time I ever told this story. I ain't even told my uncle how that made me feel. Years later, I was eight years old, I'm 28, it's 20 years ago. He don't even know how I really feel about that. You know what I'm saying?

• 11:23Speaker 03

  All we was, the negativity was the stuff that, that, that we had no choice. There wasn't no, okay, you go this way, it's the right way. Nah, it's the negative stuff, you know, it's the, you sell drugs. You gonna gangbang, you know what I'm saying? You gonna fight to survive. You lose a fight, you gonna fight again till you win. You get what I'm saying? Like, you know, so, so for me, like, from that moment, I don't know what it was. It just, it just, it, it went a whole nother route for me. You know what I'm saying?

• 11:53Fred Taylor?

  That was what we like to call your pivot. But earlier, you, you gave us our flowers for being what we are as a show. I want to give you your flowers. We recently had Trent Sheldon on. And he said, all of those decisions start with you, right? So I want to give you your flowers for making the choice to leave that behind and do better for your life. Now you're in a position where you can do better for your children and allow them to see something different. See and create legacy with the Murray last name. So shout out to you first and foremost. But with our show, we always try to project positivity and find a way to give back in whatever capacity.

• 12:33Fred Taylor?

  What were some of the influences that led you to be in the street or to experience that gang life? So some of those influences? And how could we use your story and our platform to try and circumvent, you know, for the next generation? To help them avoid those potential outcomes?

• 12:53Speaker 03

  And you in a certain environment, like, sometimes, as bad as it sound, it's like, the only influence is what's in front of you. You know what I'm saying? So for me, the influence in front of me was the drug dealers, the gang members. That was what it was for me. But also for my story, you know, the influence people that helped me.

• 13:15Speaker 03

  It was the judge. It was the prosecutors. It was my lawyers. It was the community centers. Like, you know what I'm saying? I had uncles that were still fighting for me. Like, I caught my first case at 11 years old. A robbery one with a fire on. 11 years old. I had my sister call the school and tell them to call and act like my mom. True story. Call and act like mom. My sister's in eighth grade. I'm in sixth grade. Told my sister, because I wasn't focused on school. I'm in a whole nother mind state. Like, school's not giving me money. School's not helping get the things that I want. You know what I'm saying? Because we wasn't taught the importance of school. Right. So for me, like, I'm telling my sister, "Call the school, you know?

• 13:59Speaker 03

  Tell them that I got an appointment or something." My older sister called. And that happened into being a lesson for me. That happened to be in something really bad. I got in this situation, and that situation kind of blessed me at that time, even though I had some road bumps past that. But that specifically is like, would turn it up, because I was just in a survival mode to get money, and I was ten toes in it. Right. And I wasn't trying to play in it and out of it. So when you're in the streets, there's no such thing as going to school and being in the streets. There's no such thing. It's impossible. Me right now, I made it. I'm past that. Right. There's no such thing of being a professional or gentleman or father and being in the streets. It's impossible. You know what I'm saying?

• 14:44Speaker 03

  Like, I joke all the time, like, when my boy is like, "Man, I love that I live in the suburbs." I'm in a gated community. You would never hear me talk about money, fame, clothes, materialistic things. Like, I live in a gated community, and my children go to a private school. Right. That's unheard of for Dejounte Murray and where he come from. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, just to pivot back to, you know, your question was, you know, my influence was, I did have a lot of people that were trying to show me their care. Like, the prosecutor, he told me, "Stay." They wasn't trying to give me all this time. I'm 11 years old. I don't know what. This is my first time in juvenile. I don't know what's going on. Did the crime, I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna do it every time it is."

• 15:28Speaker 03

  I could have had a chance to tell on all my people that was there. But I was so invested into what I was doing, I knew I couldn't tell. I just happened to get caught. The other three didn't get caught. And then I didn't say their name. But that just goes back to, I was forced to grow up at a young age. No 11-year-old should live that life. No 11-year-old should have to make those decisions. The decision is, oh, I got homework today.

• 15:55Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 15:56Speaker 03

  I got school today. I got basketball, football practice today. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, there's always been people that care about me. But I think what saved me is, I think those people seen something in me. Because I got caught up in the law after that and after that. But they seen something in me. You know, and one thing about it, I've been taking accountability since I was 11 years old. 11 years old. You know what I'm saying?

• 16:17Fred Taylor?

  Going on quick.

• 16:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, 11 years old. I was paying my own phone bill, 11 years old. I had my own money, 11 years old. So when it came to hard times, my life was hard times. So it's like getting in trouble with the law, or this, or fights, whatever, like that. It is what it is.

• 16:32Fred Taylor?

  What message would you have for your 11-year-old self?

• 16:37Speaker 03

  I wish I had a mom and a dad, you know, at that time, to guide me in the right way. I got children, man. Like, it's beautiful to be able to be a father. You know, it's beautiful, like, to be able to show them right from wrong, keep them away from negativity. But also teach them discipline. You know what I'm saying? And all these different things. You know, so it's like, I've never been the guy to go back to tell my younger self anything. Kids are innocent. Kids are not asked to be in this world at all. You know what I'm saying? They're innocent. Every single kid across the world is innocent. So it's like, what can I go back and really tell myself? You know, that was my environment. I was a product of my environment. My kids are a product of an environment that, you know, allows them to live in, you know, a big house,

• 17:22Speaker 03

  go to private school, have chef, have nanny. You know what I'm saying? Like, so the odds for them is, you know, is they got a pretty good odds of, you know, doing the right thing compared to, you know, 11-year-old Dejounte Murray.

• 17:34Channing Crowder?

  Brother, the chef, the nanny, it's funny. I had another question. I'm gonna ask this one though. Because we all have that. We're blessed.

• 17:40Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 17:41Channing Crowder?

  And you come from the, what, the rose out of concrete type thing.

• 17:47Channing Crowder?

  Then now you have these trust fund babies. How tough is that? Like, cuz you want them, you want them to be tough. I got a 13-year-old and I'm like, man, nah, you gotta, somebody say something slimy, you gotta. No, you in private school. It ain't like that no more. Like, the transition of what you teach your kids from how you grew up and what you just explained, like, how do you navigate that? Because your kids is way different than how you work.

• 18:11Speaker 03

  For sure. Man, it's like, it's like 50/50. And what I mean by that is, it's like a gift and a curse with it, man. The gift is, they won't ever go through what I went through. The curse of it is, this world's so sick. You know what I'm saying? There, there's people that will poison these kids' brains with all type of things, you know? Like, I got a seven-year-old and I never told my seven-year-old I was rich.

• 18:35Speaker 03

  She don't live with me. She, she, I get her a lot, you know what I'm saying? But she's home in Seattle and there's, I've never wanted to tell her none of that. I wanted her to just catch on to herself to see, oh, my dad plays basketball. My dad plays in NBA. Like, I wanted her to just figure out herself instead of just, hey, daddy's in NBA. Hey, daddy's rich. Cuz that stuff don't mean none to me. Like, it mean to other people, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm thankful, I'm grateful. But it's like, at the same time, for, for, for her, when she told me that, it kinda hurt me because I know it came from, you know, somebody that, that it wasn't a good place. So it's like, what I mean, the curse of it is like, they gonna go through something I never went through. Cuz I went through not having money.

• 19:19Speaker 03

  I lived in house, house, house, apartment, apartment, hotel, here, here, you know what I'm saying? Car, like, they won't never experience that. And so, their experience is gonna teach me too. But at the same time is, it goes back to the toughness part, you know? We, we play around and I try to teach them, like, you know what I'm saying? Don't ever go out and start nothing. But don't ever, ever turn down defending yourself. You defend yourself, no matter where it's at, however it is, whatever it is, you defend yourself. But you don't start problems. It's kind of like I tell my, my brothers and all them like, why do people get praised for being a good person? Everybody should be a good person. You should be a good person. If somebody harm you, that's when you turn into another person.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  But it's appropriate that you harm me, I could defend myself. Yeah. I don't wake up saying, oh, I hope the world does this today or do that, or I hope such and such don't get this blessing or get that blessing. Like, I wake up to go get it myself first, but at the same time, my mentality and how I feel is like, I want everybody to shine, I want everybody to eat. But if you act crazy. But if you act crazy. I. You get what I'm saying? I need to match that, match that. But that's the, I, I keep myself away from a lot of those situations, but stuff happens. Anytime, anyplace, anything can happen. But I don't come off as a person that think I'm tougher than you, I'm, I'm better than you. I'm equal to everybody in this room, everybody in this world.

• 20:47Speaker 03

  Just because I got more, you got less, I'm not better than you. So, you know, more of it just making sure they know like, you're not better than nobody. My kids know they're not better than nobody, I don't care where we go, private planes we go, here Disney World. I seen the private plane. Yeah, wherever they get to do. Yeah. Whatever they get to do. Yeah. They know, you're not better than. You're just. Nobody. You're different. You're blessed. You traveled, you're blessed, you traveled blessed. Yes. That's what you teach your babies. God blessed us, you know what I'm saying? And I say he don't bless other people, this is the blessing he gave us. Yeah. And they understand that, so it's gonna be a challenge, I got two girls. And then my lady, you know, we, she has a son, and that's like my son, you know what I'm saying? And

• 21:29Speaker 03

  the, the, the thing for me is the girls, like, with the boys, it's, it's, I feel like it ain't gonna be easy, but it's a. It's a different conversation. Yeah. You can smack that chest, you can hit that. Yeah, with the girls, man, it's, it's gonna be tough, you know what I'm saying? It's gonna be tough, but my life been tough. My life full of challenges every single day, so I'm excited for it, I'm up for the challenge, you know? I just want to make sure the main thing is the main thing, and you're not better than nobody, you're equal to everybody, and you gotta work for everything. And they understand that.

• 21:58Ryan Clark?

  My oldest came home, she was in private school. She came home when we were in Pittsburgh, and I was playing for the Steelers. She walks in the door, slams down her backpack, she said, why y'all ain't tell me we was rich? Right? But it was the same thing. The place it came from, they were making fun of her. They were telling her that she was different in a way. And not different in the sense that that made her good or that she was blessed. But that you behave this way because you have this or because you have that. And we had never had that conversation because I, like you, I understood that that was God's blessing, but it made me no different than the way I grew up. And the conversation is always difficult is, and me and Coach Tomlin have it all the time.

• 22:41Ryan Clark?

  How do I teach my kids the lessons that I learned without them going through the adversities I went through? And the answer is you actually can't.

• 22:50Speaker 03

  You can't.

• 22:51Ryan Clark?

  Right? And you can't protect them from the different things they'll experience outside of you. The question I have for you is you spoke about healing, right? And I know, you know, you log in in the morning and you send your messages to your family and your friends that are in penitentiaries. How have you dealt with any survivor's remorse or guilt being the one that made it?

• 23:18Speaker 03

  Every day. Every day.

• 23:23Speaker 03

  Just talking to them. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I know what we done. I know what, what, what we was involved in. And like I said, accountability's been, that's me. Accountability, that's it and that's all. I don't have time to point fingers and, nah, it's accountability. That's the only way you're able to grow. You make mistakes. If you can't take the accountability for it, you'll never grow. You know what I'm saying? Whatever it is. So it's just like for me, it hurts me, you know, because my, my partners ain't in jail for a year, five years, 10 years. We talking about dudes in there 20, 40, 60, 80.

• 23:59Ryan Clark?

  Damn.

• 23:59Speaker 03

  Now, this is real, you know? This is real. And it's just like, it's, it's me messaging them every day or answering their phone calls. That had nothing to do with guilt. I love you. I love you. Don't ever get it twisted because you, you behind the walls and you know, telling what they going through mentally, physically. Damn, do he still love me? Did he forget about me? And if you know me, you know me. And a lot of my boys know me. You know, a lot of them know me. They know my heart since I was a kid. I was the baby that was in front. I've never played behind nobody. I never followed nobody. But I never harmed nobody unless you harmed me. You know what I'm saying? So I was respected because of just who I was as a person.

• 24:45Speaker 03

  And my hustle ambitions. I always, I never wanted nothing from him, from you, from him. You know what I'm saying? It was, I'm gonna get in my own self. And it's just like, for me, it hurts me. Sometimes I go days where I don't even wanna answer the phone to talk to them.

• 25:01Speaker 03

  Because of the guilt. You know what I'm saying? I, I, I look at it like, damn, they in prison. Or the other ones are dead, like, you know what I'm saying? Why, why, why they ain't me? What makes me so different than them? We was doing the same things.

• 25:18Speaker 03

  Why me? You know what I'm saying? Like, why did God, all the time? Why did God choose me? Why?

• 25:25Speaker 03

  Cause I know what I was involved with. You feel what I'm saying? Like, there's a reason why I move how I move, how I move, man. There's a reason why I don't play around. I don't party, I don't drink, I don't smoke. I know what I want. I got blessed with something that sounds impossible. Knowing what I was involved in.

• 25:43Ryan Clark?

  So when did, when did it click then? Right? Because, you know, basketball, like many professional sports, it's something that chooses you and then you get to go chase it. Right? And you built yourself from all of these things we've already talked about into an all-star. That takes effort, that takes discipline, that takes dedication. When was it that all of these things that you were doing, that you say could very well leave you dead or behind bars? When did it switch to a different drive and a different dream?

• 26:20Speaker 03

  First of all, I love basketball.

• 26:21Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 26:22Speaker 03

  I love basketball, the passion. I played in the rain. I bought up socks and shot in the laundry basket. I did the hangers in the, in, in, in the door.

• 26:35Speaker 03

  And this is something I don't never gotta say. I don't gotta tell my story. And the whole state of Washington that know me, family, friends, they'll be able to tell my story, whatever me ever telling the story. So for me, like, I've always said this, I have a problem with this now. I love the game so much and don't care about what it gives me. Far as the materialistic things, the money, the fame, all that, I don't care about that. I love the game. I'm that kid that loves the game. At heart, I love it. I love the process of. Like, I love it. So for me, the switch was, I've always been good at basketball. If I wasn't good at basketball, I wouldn't be sitting on this couch.

• 27:13Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 27:14Speaker 03

  I didn't take school serious. I didn't enter a classroom after eighth grade until I got to University of Washington.

• 27:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, I didn't, I didn't go to high school.

• 27:25Channing Crowder?

  Oh, no, run that, run that back what? You didn't go into a classroom?

• 27:29Speaker 03

  I wasn't in the classroom in high school.

• 27:32Channing Crowder?

  For four years?

• 27:32Speaker 03

  They had to homeschool me to get me away from my neighborhood. You have Rayner Beach High School, Jamal would tell you, you have Rayner Beach High School. Across the street is the block where I'm from. So I'd never touch the classroom. If I was gonna be able to reach my full potential in just basketball, whatever it was, but it was basketball, keeping it real, I had to move away. I had to move away. Like, people, people don't understand, man, because I'm not a guy that run my mouth. I don't, I don't need to tell these different stories or, I'm trying to heal. So I could, it's not cool for me to get on Instagram and, and, and post things I had or what I was doing. I was hood rich at 14 years old.

• 28:16Channing Crowder?

  Well, you ain't snitching on nobody.

• 28:17Speaker 03

  No, no, no, seriously.

• 28:19Channing Crowder?

  How, what, that, I need to hear this process, this sounds crazy.

• 28:23Speaker 03

  What we called is the pivot, right?

• 28:24Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 28:25Speaker 03

  So we gonna pivot to everything. I respect y'all, that's why I'm here. You feel what I'm saying? I don't like interviews. I'm healing. I promise you, I mean that. I don't smoke or drink. I don't know how. The shit I go through mentally, I don't know how. I'm just strong. I'm strong up there. There's nothing that would make me go do a drug or, or put some alcohol, no, no, no, no. And I don't know how.

• 28:49Ryan Clark?

  So, I was talking about this earlier, right? Like, we all grew up around hood dudes. You know what I'm saying? And to me, they fell into two different sections, right? There was the hood dude that you knew was slimy.

• 29:01Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:02Ryan Clark?

  Right? He had no code. He didn't care about anybody but himself. He lied. He'll still come in your house and steal for you, right? And then it was the other one who did what he had to do based on his circumstances, but he took care of people.

• 29:16Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:17Ryan Clark?

  And he was honest. And what I mean by honest was, if you asked him something, he told you the truth, whether he did wrong or he did right, right? And if he said he was gonna do it, he was gonna do it. Because he was confident enough that if he wasn't gonna do it, he felt comfortable saying it. You seem to me like that. That whatever you present, that's what you're going to be. When you're growing up and this chaos is all around you, like you said, you hood rich at 14. You're not touching a classroom. How do you develop a code that turns you into a leader?

• 29:56Speaker 03

  I was a born leader. I didn't turn into a leader overnight. Every man in prison. Rest in peace to my ones that, you know, are now no longer with us. The ones that are still with us, my mama. They'd tell you, I've never followed nobody. That's why I was respected by the older dudes. They respected me because they call it frontline. I was frontline. I didn't make excuses. It wasn't, I'm 13, 14. But most importantly, I never followed nobody. And that's no knock to nobody. I never followed nobody. Anything that I did in my life is because I wanted to do. You know what I'm saying?

• 30:34Ryan Clark?

  Accountability.

• 30:35Speaker 03

  Accountability.

• 30:36Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I heard you say one time, uh, that you don't really go back and forth with people. You don't really talk.

• 30:44Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:45Ryan Clark?

  Because you said, like, I'm really about that.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 30:47Ryan Clark?

  Right? And you said, most people that do what I do, they aren't, right? They're talking for show, right? They want it to be that, I want to make you believe this is who I am.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  They need approval.

• 30:59Ryan Clark?

  Why don't you need the approval?

• 31:00Speaker 03

  They need approval.

• 31:03Speaker 03

  Because when you went through what I went through, there's nothing to celebrate about that. There's no image that you're trying to get across to the next person. That you were that or you wasn't that.

• 31:15Ryan Clark?

  Sure.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  And as you get older and you mature, because I was a kid. That was my environment. I had to go through it to get to it. You know what I'm saying? I'm mature. I'm grown now. I'm a gentleman. I'm a father.

• 31:27Speaker 03

  I look back at all of it. There's nothing cool about it. I'm hurt from all of it. I have real trauma and pain inside of me from all of that.

• 31:37Ryan Clark?

  How does that present in your life then? The trauma, the pain?

• 31:41Speaker 03

  It's there. You know what I'm saying? For me, the best thing to cope with it is, like I said, is knowing my purpose, my children, and just knowing how blessed I am. You know what I'm saying? I haven't really tried the mental health stuff with other people. It's just tough when you were so deep into the things I was deep into.

• 32:02Speaker 03

  Only time will tell. There ain't no timetable. You just don't know. And that's the messed up part about it. So there's days where I'm hurt a lot inside. I'm just so hurt.

• 32:16Speaker 03

  You know what I'm saying? I'll break down and cry in the shower, in the car. I could be listening to music.

• 32:24Ryan Clark?

  Hey, bro. Man, if you want my money, start a food app where you're going to deliver the food to my house. No matter where I'm at, man, I'm tapping in. It could be any type of name, as long as you got something I want to eat, I'm in there. But, bro, I went and looked at my bank account at the end of the month. They get all my dough. But I tell you what, what I've been looking into, man, is Monarch Money. It's a CFO for all of your needs. It gives you full visibility and total control over your finances so you can stop earning, right? And start saving money.

• 32:51Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, man, when you get bread, you don't know you're going to have bread, then you have it. You need Monarch Money because your accounts, investments, your goals, you got to set that number out there, and Monarch Money can help you with all of that. They are that CFO of your personal financial goals.

• 33:07Fred Taylor?

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• 33:12Channing Crowder?

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• 33:19Ryan Clark?

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• 33:25Channing Crowder?

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• 33:43Ryan Clark?

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• 33:50Channing Crowder?

  How do you, as a natural leader, like as you're talking and all you've been through, athletic, like athletic, I wouldn't even say failure, bruh, but turmoil. Like you go, you go to San Antonio, then your ass in Austin, then you get traded. And like, how do you deal with that, like mentally knowing like, like you're saying, like your personality is a dog. You know, that man, but then the world is telling you something else. The basketball world is telling you something else. How do you deal with those situations where life's not going the way you thought it would go? And now you have to pivot, as we're using a lot.

• 34:31Channing Crowder?

  You have to deal with that, but like your personality, even just listening to you talk is like, bruh, I'm that guy. Then somebody tells you, well, you really ain't that guy.

• 34:39Speaker 03

  That's cool. That's cool. I'm still gonna get up 8 a.m. every morning, go to the gym, handle my business, be a father.

• 34:50Speaker 03

  Work out again after this interview.

• 34:53Speaker 03

  It's okay. People are gonna like you. People are not gonna like you. It's okay. It's okay. I love it.

• 35:00Channing Crowder?

  But you got an ego.

• 35:02Speaker 03

  For sure. For sure. We all do.

• 35:04Channing Crowder?

  Yep.

• 35:05Speaker 03

  But at the same time, that comes where, what do you care about? Cause I got, why would I care about the guy that's in Alaska right now messaging me saying I suck? This shit so real. I had my own father when I got hurt. Text me because me and him ain't cool that somebody else was taking my spot. When I was in San Antonio. No, this shit real. There's a reason why I don't get on these cameras, man. This shit real. This shit is real. It's nothing to play with. It's not a joke. I'm healing. Like, I'm trying to heal. I am. I really am. My kids need me. The youth need me. You know what I'm saying?

• 35:48Speaker 03

  I try to tap in with the youth as much people as I can. So it's like for me, just the moral, the answer to your question is, people gonna like you or they not gonna like you? I might go back with somebody on Instagram to get what they want. Like a person comment or something to DM you and I just message them back. Like, ah, it's all good. It's all love. You know, kindness, killer motherfucker. You know what I'm saying?

• 36:11Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, nah, that's my approach too. I have a question for you. When a man's in and out of your life, you worked to get to this place. I don't know if it was when you tore your ACL in San Antonio or what. And your father, your biological father, messages you and it's like, yeah, somebody's gonna go get your spot. What is your response to that?

• 36:32Speaker 03

  I was hurt because I love him. And I know he loved me. Like more of it, I know he loved me, straight up. We might not have the best relationship and I never called him a deadbeat. He know I love him, you know, at the end of the day. But I don't know what make a father say that. You know, just because we have, we've been having going on for years. Before I even made it to college, just back and forth. You know what I'm saying? You know, so I remember it like yesterday. There was something in me that hurt. But there's something in me like, life goes on. You gonna stay in this house and be hurt? Or you gonna be hurt at that? You know what I'm saying? Like, nah, it is what it is. I can't control how you feel. I can't control how you feel. I can't. That's life. People got their opinions.

• 37:17Speaker 03

  People feel how they feel. You know what I'm saying? That shit turn me up though. I'm crazy too when it come to my work. I love my work. I love it. So things like that is like, oh, okay, bet.

• 37:29Speaker 03

  Now, not only this person I don't know, like a stranger. Shit, I gotta prove my dad wrong? Bet. I tore my ACL. Became an All-Star. He came to the All-Star game.

• 37:40Speaker 03

  I gotta swallow that pill, or does he?

• 37:42Fred Taylor?

  I think it's safe to say he swallowed that pill. And I'm not sure if he tried to use it as a form of like reverse psychology to kind of motivate you to not slack up, but whatever it was, you handled your business. But that brings me to your time in San Antonio, because not too long ago, you don't play for the Spurs, but you showed up at Pop's press conference, which I thought was just one of the most honorable things to do. What sort of influence was Pop on you? Like getting drafted to San Antonio, right? God puts us in places that we can only handle what he gives us. If you had gone somewhere else with a different coach, who knows what your career would have turned into?

• 38:23Speaker 03

  He was like the father figure I was missing, consistent. Because I show up to the gym every day. We got, you know, you guys know how the professional game work, man. You on planes, you on buses, you always together. So for me, it was just, it was, everything was happening.

• 38:43Speaker 03

  Just back to back. And it was like connecting the dots. And it was just like the right timing for everything. Knowing what I was going through, knowing I'm going into this new world, this professional world, that I have no clue about, because I come from just a kid from the south of Seattle. And that's all I know.

• 39:04Speaker 03

  I don't know this corporate stuff. I don't know this business stuff. So getting to be around him, a leader that's teaching me how to be a man, how to be a professional, how to go about your work, how do you treat people?

• 39:20Speaker 03

  You are who you only treat people, how you treat people. You treat people like an asshole, you're an asshole.

• 39:25Channing Crowder?

  Yep.

• 39:27Speaker 03

  You treat people good, I mean, you're a good person. You know what I'm saying? So for me, it was, he was like a father figure. There's so many stories. If he was able to come sit here and talk. He'd tell you, he's never had a player come in his office that cried on his shoulder from how many murders he had to deal with back home in Seattle. How many funerals I had to pay for. It was so crazy, a lot of my people don't even know this, from family, friends, in the penitentiary, Pop didn't want me to go to Seattle. When I first got drafted, I wouldn't go to Seattle. And that was a man that cared about me. That was a man that wanted me to reach my full potential in life first, but then as a basketball player.

• 40:09Speaker 03

  He's so real, he tried to move my mom to San Antonio with his own money after she got shot. My mom was shot in the leg my rookie year. He called her himself without me knowing until after the fact. We want to move you here. No, no, not with his money, with my money. That sound like a dude that cared about me and loved me, right?

• 40:33Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  You feel what I'm saying? Because my mom got shot at that time. You should know my mentality without me saying it.

• 40:39Ryan Clark?

  Right. Damn. How'd you find out he, that Pop called your mom?

• 40:46Speaker 03

  He eventually told me. You know, he eventually told me.

• 40:49Ryan Clark?

  How'd you feel when, I mean, he's the greatest basketball coach of our time, says, "Look, it's bigger than basketball. Your mom got shot. I understand who you are and what that means to you. I want to bring her here and I wanted to do it on me, not on you."

• 41:08Speaker 03

  When he told me, it just was, it was really like, because in that time, I went from starting in high school, starting in college, now I'm not playing, but I understand it though. Like, a lot of these guys come to the league, young guys, they want it overnight. I didn't want it overnight, I just need to understand. Let me know. You know, give me the, give me the, the, the plan, what it is, whatever, and I'm gonna go accomplish it. Like, it doesn't matter how long it take, it doesn't matter what I have to do. You know, so for me, I was just blessed to go around all these great people. But for him specifically, when he told me that, it was, it was simple. Oh, this dude care about me. Because I'm a fan just like everybody else is a fan. This is Greg Popovich. Who won five championships.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  How many players have he just helped non-basketball? It's just these conversations. Just to hug, like, huh, I love you, I care about you.

• 42:03Speaker 03

  So to see him tell my mother, you know, those things and even him telling me, "I just did that because I care about you, I care about her, and I know what bringing your mom to San Antonio where she's safe and what that would do for you mentally, just mentally. We didn't get to the basketball part. That's what I took from that. He cared about me, he loved me with his actions, not with his words.

• 42:32Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 43:01Channing Crowder?

  Bro, it's a thing we all go through. You forgot where you came from. And you came from some shit. You came from some tough times.

• 43:11Speaker 03

  I hear it all the time. I hear it all the time.

• 43:14Channing Crowder?

  But what do you hear, like, what would you tell a guy? Because I've even heard that, like, Decatur, Georgia.

• 43:22Channing Crowder?

  My kids, we went up, we went back years ago and they were like, Daddy, we want to see the project you grew up in. I was like, we wanted to go back to that shit? I don't want you to see that. But what would you, what would you tell the people that say, oh, you forget where you got from? No, I grew, I tell my kids, I was like, Daddy worked hard to get you out of this. I don't even want you to see that. But what would you tell, just listen to your story, what would you tell people that feel that way? Like, you, you forgot where you came from, you, you gave up on the hood and all that. Y'all got it. That's my thing. What do you say to them?

• 43:54Speaker 03

  Everybody that know, know me, like, you didn't just see me get drafted and you see me on TV or you see me on the internet. Every person that know me know that I got everything out of the mud on myself, by myself. So I never really had the problems of you changed on us. Remember I did this for you? Remember I did that for you? I had dudes say, you want this?

• 44:19Speaker 03

  Whatever, it could be fifty cash, it could be car. I don't want it. Everybody know that I've got everything out of the mud. I'm by myself. You know what I'm saying? But also, at the same time, I have a heart of a lion. Everything I receive, I want to give back times a thousand.

• 44:40Speaker 03

  You know what I'm saying? So for me is, I always hear it through like-

• 44:45Ryan Clark?

  Outside people.

• 44:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, outside, not even outside people like, I heard it. I got a real story for you. I landed back home recently, right? And this was, this is probably like a couple of weeks ago. I landed back, I be in and out, I be there. You know what I'm saying? So I landed back home and one of my cousins, love him to death. You know, he come from the neighborhood I come from. He little, he probably a year older than me. And he calls me and he's like, "Cuddy, man, "all fuckers really be haters." I'm like, "Yeah, I know. Well, what happened? What happened?" Man, I was in the hood and such and such was saying, "Man, white bro don't do this for me. "White bro don't do this for us. "White bro don't do that for us." So you know what I told my cousin?

• 45:32Speaker 03

  "Why are you calling me, telling me that? "Why didn't you check that to where you didn't even have to call me to tell me that?"

• 45:37Ryan Clark?

  Why are they so comfortable to talk about me in front of you?

• 45:40Speaker 03

  Hundred percent. I love my cousin to death. I love him unconditionally.

• 45:46Speaker 03

  I'm literally getting off the plane. I'm on, you know what I'm saying? Like, cause that's another thing. I'm gonna pick up. I'm not that dude that, "I'm better than you, I'm richer than you." Nah, I ain't answering my phone. If I'm not in the gym with my kids or in the air, like, I'm gonna pick the phone up, man. I want to talk to my people. I may not be able to talk to you tomorrow.

• 46:05Speaker 03

  The thing for me was that. Why you ain't check him? Why you ain't check him? Why are you calling me, telling me this?

• 46:13Speaker 03

  Why is, like he just said, like Ryan said, why is he comfortable saying that around you?

• 46:17Ryan Clark?

  Does that tighten the circle?

• 46:19Speaker 03

  You feel what I'm saying? Like-

• 46:20Ryan Clark?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 46:21Speaker 03

  So for me, it's, a lot of people know I unchanged. I don't gotta glorify what I do. I don't have to glorify my giving back.

• 46:31Speaker 03

  I tell my people all the time, I'm sick and tired of paying for lawyers, bail money, funerals.

• 46:37Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 46:37Speaker 03

  I'm tired of it. Go build a business, go finish school and build a business and come to me with a plan and I'll support that before I bail you out of jail.

• 46:45Channing Crowder?

  There's a story that you bought, you bought dozens of houses.

• 46:49Speaker 03

  I bought dozen houses?

• 46:50Channing Crowder?

  They said you bought a bunch of people houses.

• 46:52Speaker 03

  Man, they lying to you. Where'd you get that from?

• 46:54Channing Crowder?

  I just saw it on internet.

• 46:55Speaker 03

  Let's talk about it. I love it. Let's talk about it.

• 46:58Channing Crowder?

  Okay, you, yeah, they said you were watching out for everybody. Now I was gonna tell you, even off air, like as a man, like, bro, you can't buy everybody a house, bro.

• 47:05Speaker 03

  That's why you asked me though. Instead of assuming.

• 47:08Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 47:08Speaker 03

  I could read something about you. I'm gonna ask you man to man, look you in your eyes, you feel what I'm saying?

• 47:12Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 47:13Speaker 03

  Twelve houses?

• 47:14Channing Crowder?

  They said you bought a dozen houses for your family. Saw it on something.

• 47:17Ryan Clark?

  That's a lot of houses.

• 47:18Speaker 03

  That's a lot of, two houses is a lot of houses.

• 47:21Ryan Clark?

  Dejounte, do you make friends? Like, uh?

• 47:25Speaker 03

  I, I don't.

• 47:26Ryan Clark?

  I can tell.

• 47:27Speaker 03

  I don't. I got, I got brothers. Uh, like, they not my friends. They, you, you, you get allowed around my personal space. You more than a friend to me, like you family. Just because we might not have the same blood, like, blood don't make you family. It just doesn't for me. So, I really don't, um, I, I, I've been failed so much just in life, you know, it's, it's another thing you keep your guard up. You know, but it's okay to have friends. Like, it's hard, but at the same time, it's like, you know, I think that comes in the process of the healing part, trying to heal, trying to, trying to get a bigger understanding, because I've been in survival mode my whole life. Even where I'm at now, it's just, it's still, I'm blessed, but it's just still survival.

• 48:12Speaker 03

  You know what I'm saying?

• 48:13Ryan Clark?

  Where do you find joy though? Right? Like, pure joy? Where, if I said, hey, Dejounte, man, if you wake up tomorrow and life could be perfect, where would you go or what would you do to find joy? Would you know what that was?

• 48:29Speaker 03

  I mean, joy is seeing the kids run around. Seeing the kids run around, man, like, that's joy. Like, going to the gym, that's joy. The gym's my club. Anybody that know me, they know I get in the gym and I blast the music. That's my club. I was in the club at 12, 13 years old, 21 and over, clubs at 12 and 13 years old. You think I want a club now when I've already did that? No way. I have no interest. Because I know my purpose, I know what I want. You feel what I'm saying?

• 49:01Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  So for me, like I said, the gym, that's my joy, that's my club. It really is. I love bowling, I take my family bowling, I love bowling. You know, my girl got me expanding to, you know, do more things, but I had to even break it down to her, you know, just who I am. Like, she's still learning who I am, what I've been through, what I go through. Because it ain't just vanished in its away. Like, I could make it look good, because like I said, accountability, if you following the pattern, I take accountability. I will never put this burden on nobody around me. So there's a, there's a lot of things that, you know, I get joy from. But that joy is temporary.

• 49:37Fred Taylor?

  So you went to Atlanta, but you had your career highs in Atlanta?

• 49:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, correct.

• 49:40Fred Taylor?

  Before you went over.

• 49:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:42Fred Taylor?

  Okay, well, that also explains it, because he would turn up in the A.

• 49:45Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:46Fred Taylor?

  You avoiding the club in Atlanta, you can focus on your career highs and which was what you did.

• 49:51Speaker 03

  My boys, they, they was outside.

• 49:53Fred Taylor?

  But you was chilling.

• 49:54Speaker 03

  Hundred percent.

• 49:55Fred Taylor?

  You was tapping in the show.

• 49:57Speaker 03

  It doesn't matter where, I'm going, you could put me anywhere. You could put the, the turn up next door to my house, or the next condo down the hall, like. I'm not gonna get nothing out of it, man. People that really go turn up and go out and have fun, what you doing? You looking for a girl, or you a girl, you looking for a man? Or you drinking, or you smoking?

• 50:16Fred Taylor?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:17Channing Crowder?

  Oh, that sounds fun to me.

• 50:19Speaker 03

  Which is cool, though. Nah, it's cool. Nah, I tell, I tell my boys, I tell my brothers all the time, man, like, y'all have fun. I tell my teammates, my NBA teammates be tripping. I got a real story this past year before I got hurt. We played at Atlanta, my first game back in Atlanta. I told my, my teammates was doing, you know, a little something. I said, the only way I go is if we win. And I'm just showing my face to support y'all, like, yo, what up? Shake hand, woo, woo, I'm out of there.

• 50:44Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 50:44Speaker 03

  We lost, I stayed in the Four Seasons Hotel.

• 50:47Fred Taylor?

  Hmm.

• 50:48Channing Crowder?

  You could walk in Magic City and leave three minutes later?

• 50:52Speaker 03

  I been in Magic City, picked my food up in the front, and I left in three minutes.

• 50:56Channing Crowder?

  You gotta sit down for 15 minutes, it's just.

• 50:59Speaker 03

  My whole time in Atlanta, I never went in Magic City. Seriously.

• 51:03Channing Crowder?

  Really?

• 51:03Speaker 03

  I went one time when I was with the Spurs. One time. We just was, it was in Atlanta, right before the trade deadline. We win, everybody win, it was cool. I lived in Atlanta, never went in Magic City and set, got dances, threw money, no.

• 51:17Fred Taylor?

  So you never had the lemon pepper lose?

• 51:19Speaker 03

  Absolutely. You ain't heard what I said? He said he won't say it. I walked in and I was standing at that booth waiting for my lemon peppers, you better believe it.

• 51:30Channing Crowder?

  But, but, but, this is, I gotta ask a follow up about RC's thing, like, what is your enjoyment? You don't seem like you have fun. Do you fish? Do you golf? You don't seem like you have fun. You seem like you're trying to prove the world wrong.

• 51:44Speaker 03

  It's not even, I don't think prove the world wrong, it's, I think when you know like, how was Judge coming into this business, the NBA? He was a gang member, his family's gang members, and they ghetto, and this is real shit ever said about me. You feel what I'm saying? So, I'm like, damn, the odds is against me. Like, they ain't even saying the good I did to finish to graduate high school, pass the ACT test on myself, go to college, keep a high enough GPA to play, and never get in trouble, and they not praising me, none of that. They talking about the little 11, 12, 13, 14 year old that was just a product of his environment.

• 52:26Speaker 03

  That stuck with me like, damn, if I get into anything, they throwing me out in 2.5 seconds.

• 52:33Fred Taylor?

  Like, wait.

• 52:34Speaker 03

  And I worked too hard, man. I came too far to just come this far.

• 52:40Fred Taylor?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:40Speaker 03

  So I have fun, bro, I do. I love the gym, I love my family. Like, we got pool, we got stuff I never imagined. You know what I'm saying? I could play with their toys with them. We go watch movies, we can go, you know, I'm trying to, I'm trying to heal, I'm trying to, I'm 28 years old. You feel me? I've been doing this on my own. I ain't had that person that guided me for real. I've been doing this on my own since I was 11. I'm trying, I'm trying to figure it out, I'm trying to understand, I'm trying to expand and explore, you know what I'm saying?

• 53:10Fred Taylor?

  His type of fun is nudist colonies, so ignore him. Coming off your two best seasons, and to be going to a new city, new team, 31 games in, fracture hand, Achilles. How frustrating must that have been?

• 53:25Speaker 03

  This is probably the, this is my worst, worst experience in the NBA.

• 53:32Speaker 03

  This is my worst experience in the NBA. Nothing but love for New Orleans. We talking about the city, even the organization. I don't bad mouth nobody. This is just my experience. This is what Dejounte went through, go through. And that trade, it wasn't even supposed to happen. Like, that wasn't even the thing, like, last summer. I was here last summer, working out in Atlanta. You know, me and Trey Young, you know, that was, you know, they should never did that. And they were figuring out what they were doing. You know, they traded me. But that wasn't the team we were talking to. That wasn't even an option. It happened. I'm a competitor. So when it happened, I'm,

• 54:15Speaker 03

  I'm like, damn, I'm back in the driver's seat like I was in San Antonio. When I say that, I'm the point guard. I get to make the decisions for everybody around this room. I get to help you get another contract. Help you, help you. I'd rather see y'all go to the All-Star game before me. That's just who I am. That's my mentality. That's my heart. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, at first, I'm shocked about the trade. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, damn, I'm going to New Orleans? I remember when Hurricane Katrina happened. I was like, man, I'll never go there. Straight up. Like, this is a true story. And it happened. So it's like, what you gonna do about it?

• 54:51Speaker 03

  You know, and moving is never easy for any professional, any person in life, you know? You got a family at that. If I was by myself, it would be smooth. We got kids, my lady, you know, my brother's coming with me. So it's a transition that we gotta do together. And when I say my experience, man, it was bad, man. I get to New Orleans, you know? Training camp's good. Like, I feel healthy. Everything's good. And I'm excited about what's about to happen as far as our roster and how camp went. And everything went downhill from that moment. My mom had a stroke seven days before the first game.

• 55:29Speaker 03

  I leave. I go back to Seattle. I'm with her. She wake up out of ICU. She gets in the room and we watching the W- I remember yesterday, we watching the WNBA finals. She's just crying. She's crying because I'm right there by her side. And she's just crying. She can't really talk. So I'm like, damn, why you, what's going on? You good. Like, you gonna be good. You good. I'm right here. We all here, family here. She pointing at basketball like.

• 55:58Ryan Clark?

  Need to go play.

• 56:00Speaker 03

  You know what I'm saying, like, these is women playing, no disrespect. Like, I'm one of the biggest fans of WNBA. She's looking like...

• 56:09Speaker 03

  So I'm like, damn, I'm like, you want me to go play? She's like, yeah, go play. You, she's pointing.

• 56:18Speaker 03

  I go play. I go back. I ain't played basketball my whole time up in Seattle. You know, it was about 12, 13 days I was up there just with her every day. I'm in a hospital with her, not even thinking about basketball. It's my mom's life. I never seen my mom. She's in ICU. This shit is real.

• 56:36Speaker 03

  You know, I go back to New Orleans, literally, a day before the first game, without practicing anything. I go play, because not only my mom want me to go play, there was that guilt that you talk about.

• 56:51Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 56:51Speaker 03

  This team traded for me. The point guard to run the show, keep everything organized.

• 56:58Speaker 03

  I got something to prove to them. Back what you said, you feel like you got to prove. Shit all pivot to the same. It all comes to the pot. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, I get there and

• 57:10Speaker 03

  everything's great. I break my hand first game.

• 57:12Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 57:13Speaker 03

  And I'm out. And the shit that hurt me was that I felt like that was God saying, no, you got to be with her.

• 57:23Speaker 03

  Like, she wanted you to go there, but nah, you broke your hand because you got to go rehab and be with her.

• 57:28Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 57:29Speaker 03

  She need you more than this game need you. You know, I go back with her. And my mom was out of ICU and made it to a rehab center. And then she went backwards. She had to get rushed back to ICU. So I'm back in Seattle, not knowing what's about to happen. And just dealing with this, dealing with this. She recovers. Thank God to this day, she's doing better. She can do, you know, better than what she is, but she's better. She's been out of the hospital. And from that moment, I go back and, you know, the times when I get back, you know, I made it important to them. New Orleans like... You know, cuz it's, it's, I'm not the guy, I don't wanna hear the sad stuff all the time. Like, don't remind me of it, you know, I appreciate the text and the first time you seen me,

• 58:12Speaker 03

  but we got a task to attend to, we got work to do, let's go hoop. Cuz that's what she would want me to do, she wouldn't want me to pout, cry and sit in the house on her blanket. Like nah, she taught me to be tough, she taught me to keep going, so, you know, I was ready to hoop. And from that moment, the organization, it just, it got bad, man, like, as you guys could see, like, such and such got fired, another guy left, they brought new people in and it was a situation where like, seriously, like, I got all these problems going on. Not only my mom, I broke my hand, I recovered, my mom had a stroke, one of my cousins got killed. Then my uncle overdosed, back to back to back.

• 58:57Speaker 03

  And in the meantime of all this, like, I'm not getting what I need in the organization. It's hard for me to get my training table time, it's hard for me to get lifts, it's hard for me to get my own court time, so you can only imagine where my mental is at.

• 59:11Fred Taylor?

  I'm stressed.

• 59:13Speaker 03

  I'm stressed, I'm mad every day, I'm sad, I'm angry, I, I, I just, I don't wanna be there at that time. Like, it's so much going on, you feel what I'm saying? And it's crazy, the day I tore my Achilles. I'm in the car with my brother driving to the game, all this stuff is just wearing on me because I'm seeing something that's going on that I've never experienced in the NBA. The NBA's always been the ultimate professionals in everything. How you work, how you walk, how you talk, whatever, you get everything, you know what I'm saying? That's never gonna be the problem to, to, to, to people, to come get your work. You know, they got food, they got everything you need, the problems usually come from outside of you or your play, you produced or you didn't.

• 59:54Speaker 03

  You know what I'm saying? It ain't those things, and I'm somebody that's really detailed about my work. You know, my work is my work, I don't play about my work. So not only I have my hand, my mom, my cousin, my uncle, I'm not even able to get what I need. My mind's in a whole nother world. I don't even know if I want to play basketball at that time.

• 1:00:19Ryan Clark?

  So, all of this is going on. You pop your Achilles. What is, what's going through your mind when you're on the court? Playing the Celtics and your Achilles goes.

• 1:00:31Speaker 03

  The day I was driving to the game, my brother was with me. We're driving and I'm just venting to him.

• 1:00:37Speaker 03

  He talks about it to this day, like, he's like, our conversations was just weird. Like, it was like something was gonna happen. Like, I told my agent too, I'm like, man, if, if something don't shake, like, something's gonna happen. I don't know what it is. The way that things is going and where my mental is at. It wasn't just me, it was everybody's mental, every player. Like, I hope this bring peace to my brothers. I hope, you know, that everybody gets what they need. I hope the organization, you know, get it together, like, because you have the talent. But it ain't just the talent. You need every dot to connect.

• 1:01:09Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 1:01:09Speaker 03

  To have a chance to go win. But even that game, I just was mentally gone. You know what I'm saying? Like, I was just gone. I've never felt this way. I don't smoke or drink.

• 1:01:18Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 1:01:19Speaker 03

  So, I'm feeling something that I don't even, you know what I'm saying? I don't understand. I'm like, why? I got hurt the first quarter, like, right away.

• 1:01:28Speaker 03

  Right away. And then what hurt me the more about that situation is when I got hurt right there. I got up, walked it all, went to the back. My girl's being told, my brother's being told, whatever you need, whatever you need. You need anything. Whatever you need. I'm sitting on the bed like, damn. Whatever I need after I tear my Achilles?

• 1:01:56Speaker 03

  You know, so, you know, that, that, that was that. But, like I said, I could be a little crazy. I laughed at it, honestly.

• 1:02:03Ryan Clark?

  Something wrong with you, Doug?

• 1:02:04Speaker 03

  I tear my Achilles, it is what it is.

• 1:02:06Ryan Clark?

  Yeah. Yo, Mitch.

• 1:02:08Speaker 03

  It is what it is.

• 1:02:08Ryan Clark?

  Mitch is in San Antonio now.

• 1:02:10Speaker 03

  San Antonio, Mitch Johnson.

• 1:02:12Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:12Speaker 03

  Congrats to him.

• 1:02:13Ryan Clark?

  What is it like to be with Gregg Popovich? To be there at the press conference, to have this connection with him? And then the person that moves into the head coaching spot is someone you've known for a lot of your life?

• 1:02:29Speaker 03

  He's the reason why I'm here right now.

• 1:02:33Speaker 03

  Mitch Johnson's the reason I'm here right now. He's the guy that came and got me out of jail when I was 15. With my uncle, him and my uncle's best friends. Mitch Johnson created an AAU team for Dejounte Murray called A+. Went around the country. That's how I built my name, that's how I became a top recruit, that's how I got all these scholarships. Because of Mitch Johnson. I put the work in, but he opened his house.

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  He took responsibility as a father, as a big brother. When he didn't have to. He was best friends with my uncle.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  He created a team for me, an AAU team for me.

• 1:03:11Speaker 03

  He's the reason, we came, we went into San Antonio like as a package together. They'll tell you, like we went in together. And there was plans for him because of, not Dejounte, because Mitch Johnson is smart. Mitch Johnson understands the game, knows the game. You know what I'm saying, he knows how to run a team.

• 1:03:29Speaker 03

  And that's why I'm not surprised where he's at, you know, he had a plan and he stuck with his plan. He went to the G League, he played the development, he was behind the bench, he got on the bench. Now he's the head coach. When you pay your dues and you put the work in and you don't put a timetable on the work.

• 1:03:45Speaker 03

  Good things happen, so you know, for me, there was. I wasn't just there for Mitch, I was there for Mitch Johnson, I was there for Greg Popovich. It was a, it was a beautiful transition.

• 1:03:55Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:55Speaker 03

  Knowing the story behind it, at least for me and Mitch, and then how much I love Pop, you know what I'm saying, so Mitch is.

• 1:04:01Channing Crowder?

  That's awesome.

• 1:04:01Speaker 03

  He's the real deal.

• 1:04:03Channing Crowder?

  I love that. You, are you happy?

• 1:04:06Speaker 03

  For what?

• 1:04:07Channing Crowder?

  With life, are you happy? All-star, balling, got money, kids, are you happy?

• 1:04:13Speaker 03

  It depends what you, what you mean about that.

• 1:04:15Channing Crowder?

  Happy, bro, I'm happy. I enjoy this life.

• 1:04:19Speaker 03

  But the, the money don't make me happy.

• 1:04:22Channing Crowder?

  Money don't make me happy, I have a beautiful wife, I have great kids, I have a good time, we're out traveling, I'm with my kids. I am happy. Are you happy?

• 1:04:32Speaker 03

  I'm happy with my lady. I'm happy with my kids. The curse of that, though, the other half of that is, you just see so many people change on you. Like, usually here, he changed, but usually it's the people around you that change. You know, when you're a good-hearted, God-fearing person like myself. So when you say that, like, yeah, I'm happy with the blessings and, you know, like, I have a lady that, you know, loves me, the kids, my kids that love me. But it's like, damn, when you look at so many people that you would think they just happy for you.

• 1:05:07Channing Crowder?

  They not.

• 1:05:08Speaker 03

  They not happy for me. And you genuine, you love everybody unconditionally. Like, that shit hurt. I don't care who you are. You feel me? But more of the story, I'm happy. I'm about to take a vacation with my family in a couple of days. I'm happy, for sure.

• 1:05:21Ryan Clark?

  Jontay, I think my last question as we end it, man, would be, you have come such a long way. And you keep talking about healing, and you've talked about the things that you deal with emotionally and mentally to yourself.

• 1:05:38Ryan Clark?

  When are you going to let people in in order to help you? This show became what it is beyond a shadow of a doubt because Michael Beasley sat right where you were sitting, man, and told us how long-

• 1:05:52Speaker 03

  I just watched that the other day. And saying his ma stole from him, rest in peace. You know, the people around him, like, that shit messed me up.

• 1:05:59Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, like, when are you gonna start letting people help you? And letting people be a part of the healing process? Because you are a strong man, and you are mature, and I can tell the level of emotional intelligence that you have. But what you went through is not a one-man job, unless that man's name is Jesus. When are you gonna let people come in and be, whether it's ear, whether it's advice? Or sometimes, bro, like, usually I sit around with people and cry. Are you open to trying to get to that point?

• 1:06:34Speaker 03

  When they show consistency of caring about me instead of wanting from me.

• 1:06:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, cuz I'm somebody that read the room. I know what's going on. I could see somebody text me, "How you doing?" And then boom, can I hold this? Come right after. Straight up, you know. Somebody show me the consistency of, "Man, I care about you. I really love you, man. Forget what you can do for me, what you can do for yourself." Like, "Nah, I love you the person. Love you the person." Instead of wanting these things from this person.

• 1:07:06Speaker 03

  For sure. Cuz I know it ain't about me. It's bigger than me. We all in this together. And I know there's, you know, there's people that can help you. It's just for me, my life, my story been so messed up. And like I said, the survival thing, and when you just been failed by so many people. It's tough, you know, but I think that's the most important, you know, consistency. It's showing you care. You don't want nothing from me. Cuz I show you I care. I hit you. I hit people on birthdays. I remember everybody's birthdays, holidays. I'm the one that send the message. I don't wait this for you to send me the message. I'll tell you happy birthday, merry Christmas, happy new year. I send that, not to one, two, three, four, or five people. All the people I care about.

• 1:07:53Speaker 03

  Action speak louder than words. Moral of the story.

• 1:07:55Ryan Clark?

  You are an extremely special human, man. I'm so grateful for you, bruh, but like, you know, I've been trying to do this forever. And it was honestly better than I even thought. The conversation, the way you opened up. And my hopes is you enjoyed it enough and you feel safe enough where, man, we could do this again. Cuz I think there's so much more. I love chopping up with you about.

• 1:08:19Speaker 03

  Y'all real, man. Like I said, I, besides the football, you know, like I know my history of football, you know. But besides that, because we're bigger than athletes, we're bigger than sports, you feel me? And all y'all represent what I feel like I represent, you know, being a great human being. You feel what I'm saying? And just wanting to make the world a better place. You can't change everybody.

• 1:08:39Ryan Clark?

  Nope.

• 1:08:39Speaker 03

  We could change one person. We did our job. You feel what I'm saying? So, you know, that's just respect and love to all of y'all, man. That's why I had to give y'all your flowers at the beginning of the show.

• 1:08:47Ryan Clark?

  Man, I appreciate you, bro.

• 1:08:48Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 1:08:49Ryan Clark?

  That was dope, my boy. Appreciate you, man.

• 1:08:52Speaker 03

  Hell, yeah. They, they, I don't know, man. I might make it.

• 1:09:21Speaker 05

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 1:09:31Speaker 06

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Somemagnitide injection, 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVY or visit wegovy.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?