Mirna Valerio Is A Beautiful Work in Progress: Thoughts On Body Positivity, Self-Empowerment & Owning Your Truth

What is a runner? How do we define an athlete? What does it truly mean to be fit and healthy? Challenging stereotypes, today's guest demands that we broaden our limited definition of these terms. She may not be fast, but she runs. In fact she runs a lot, an impressive slew of ultramarathons to her name. She's also not skinny. In fact, she's big. 250 pounds big. But Mirna Valerio is without a doubt a runner. In fact, the force of nature affectionately known as The Mirnavator is one of the most inspirational athletes I have ever met — a true ambassador of sport on a mission to empower women of all shapes and sizes to proudly embrace their bodies, expand their horizons, and own their truth. Carrying herself with grace, an intelligent self-confidence and a smile so gleeful it brightens all in her path, Mirna's appeal has less to do with her ability to run long distances and everything to do with her unapologetic celebration of her personal truth. Mirna's joyful self-acceptance is both real and rare. It's both authentic and bold. It's as infectious as it is inclusive. And it's incredibly empowering to the millions of people who suffer body shame issues silently. When she’s not running, the Brooklyn native (now living in the North Georgia Mountains with her husband and teenage son) is a Spanish teacher, diversity practitioner, cross-country coach, and author of the wildly popular blog Fat Girl Running. She also writes frequently for Women's Running Magazine and recently released a remarkable memoir I thoroughly enjoyed entitled, A Beautiful Work In Progress*. She’s been profiled in the Wall Street Journal and Runner's World and on NBC Nightly News. She’s also an ambassador for a variety of brands like REI, Merrell, Skirt Sports and Swiftwick. Just this week Mirna became one of the faces of JC Penney’s newly launched Here I Am campaign I first came across Mirna’s story by way of a mini-documentary produced by REI called The Mirnavator that went viral. Hooked, I was determined to share her powerful story with you. Mirna more than delivered. Much like past episodes with Josh LaJaunie, Adam Sud, David Clark and my most recent episode with Charlie Jabaley, this is an incredibly inspiring underdog every person story. But unlike those tales, Mirna's journey is not one marked by dramatic before and after photos. On the contrary, this is a story about body acceptance and body positivity. It's a conversation about self-empowerment and self-acceptance. It’s about tackling stereotypes, overcoming prejudice and the importance of inclusion. And it's an exchange about the need to redefine how we think about and define athleticism, the spirit of sport, and fitness in general. But more than anything, this is a conversation about owning your truth. I adore Mirna and I absolutely love this conversation. I think you will too. Please stick around to the very end for a treat. In addition to her impressive accomplishments, Mirna is also an extremely talented, Julliard-trained opera singer. I was able to convince her to take us out with her angelic, etheral voice. It's insane! Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 0:44Rich Roll?

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• 1:05Mirna Valerio?

  Nothing happens overnight. So know that whatever you are changing, whatever you're doing, whatever your goal is, it is going to be a journey. There will be moments of joy and amazement, and there will be moments of awfulness and where you just have to sort of be in the trenches and do the work. But that has tremendous implications for success. Find something that you might be interested in, that maybe you think you can't do, or maybe someone has told you you won't be able to do that. And, goddammit, do it anyway.

• 1:44Rich Roll?

  That's Mirna Valerio, and this is the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:58Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey everybody, what do you know? How's it going? What's the good news? My name is Rich Roll. I host this thing. It's called a podcast, my podcast. Welcome. I appreciate you for tuning in today. Before we get into this conversation, I want you to take a minute and conjure in your mind's eye, a runner. What does that runner look like? What image occurs to you? Is it a skinny white guy perhaps? Maybe an even skinnier Kenyan? I don't know what that looks like for you. But I think I can promise you that today's guest

• 2:39Rich Roll?

  defies whatever stereotype of a runner is in your mind right now. She's not fast. She's not trying to be fast. And despite having conquered a pretty impressive slew of ultra marathons, she's not skinny and she's not trying to be skinny either. And rather than hiding or shying away from this fact, the fact that she's big, 250 pounds big, she owns it. And she owns it with a big, bright smile across her face. But make no mistake, Mirna Valerio is definitely a runner. And I think she just might be one of the most inspiring runners

• 3:23Rich Roll?

  that I have ever met. And that's because she's real, because her joy, her love of running is so obvious and it's infectious. And it's because she owns her story. She's owning her truth unapologetically. And that level of self-acceptance is courageous. It's bold and incredibly empowering, particularly...

• 3:51Rich Roll?

  In the context of millions of people who suffer silently in deep shame over body image issues. So who is this person, Mirna Valeria? Well, when she's not running, Mirna, who is a native of Brooklyn, New York, who now lives in the North Georgia Mountains with her husband and teenage son, is a Spanish teacher. She's a diversity practitioner. She's a cross-country coach. She is an author of the wildly popular blog Fat Girl Running, and she also writes frequently for Women's Running Magazine and recently released a pretty remarkable memoir called A Beautiful Work in Progress that you guys should all

• 4:34Rich Roll?

  check out. I really enjoyed it. Mirna's been profiled in the Wall Street Journal and runners world and on NBC Nightly News. She's also an ambassador for a wide variety of brands like REI, Merrill, Skirt Sports, Swiftwick. And just this week, I saw on her Twitter feed, she announced her involvement with J.C. Penney in a campaign that they recently launched called Here I Am, which is pretty cool. And I've got a couple more things I want to say about Mirna before we dive in, but first.

• 5:13Rich Roll?

  Okay, The Myrnivator. I first came across Mirna's story in a mini documentary on YouTube that was produced by REI called The Myrnivator. And I was just hooked. I was blown away by her story. And I knew that I had to get her on the show. And it took a little while, but we finally made it happen. And much like past episodes of this program with Josh Lojani and Adam Sud, David Clark, and my most recent episode with Charlie Jabaley, this is an incredibly inspiring underdog every person kind of tale. But what it's not is a story of stunning

• 5:55Rich Roll?

  weight loss. Instead, it's a story about body positivity. It's about self empowerment and self acceptance. It's about Tackling stereotypes, overcoming prejudice, and it's about inclusion, the need to redefine how we think about not just running and what a runner is, but, or an athlete for that matter, but about wellness, about fitness in general. But more than anything, I think this is a conversation about the power of owning your truth. I adore this woman. I absolutely love this conversation and so thrilled to share it with you. And please

• 6:34Rich Roll?

  make sure you stick around to the very end for a treat because Mirna, you might be surprised to know, is also a Julliard-trained opera singer. What? Like, yes, I'm telling you. And she takes us out with her extraordinary, and I mean that in the literal sense, extraordinary voice, which is insane. You gotta hear it. So, okay, all right, let's do this. The Myrnavator.

• 7:06Mirna Valerio?

  Hello.

• 7:07Rich Roll?

  Beautiful. You ready to go?

• 7:10Mirna Valerio?

  I am ready to go.

• 7:11Rich Roll?

  We could just giggle and laugh the whole time.

• 7:13Mirna Valerio?

  That's what I tend to do anyway.

• 7:15Rich Roll?

  That would be one version of the podcast. Good. Well, so nice to be here with you. I've been looking forward to this for so long.

• 7:22Mirna Valerio?

  So have I. I'm really excited.

• 7:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's really great. So, first of all, before we even get into it, we're in a hotel room in Anaheim. What are you doing here? What is going on?

• 7:31Mirna Valerio?

  Um, I am at the NIAS, which stands for the National Association of Independent Schools, P O C C, People of Color Conference. And it's a conference that I go to every year. As a Black woman in education, in independent schools, it's a really important conference for me to go to, to be in community with my people.

• 7:56Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, that's great. Beautiful. And you're not presenting, right? You're just, you get to kick back and enjoy.

• 8:01Mirna Valerio?

  Thank God. I am kicking back, enjoying, enjoying seeing all the learning happening with my, the group of faculty that I brought from my school.

• 8:10Rich Roll?

  Well, you had quite a year.

• 8:12Mirna Valerio?

  Just a year?

• 8:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, I don't know. I mean, it's been building to this, but like, I think just as of late, well, since your book came out and even prior to that. I mean, I was aware of you and kind of following you from afar for a little while, but it wasn't until, and I'd seen your book popping up in the preorder stuff on Amazon. It was like, oh, that's cool. She's got a book coming out. That's great. And, but it wasn't really until the REI film came out that you, I mean, that was like a crazy viral thing, like even more than you being on NBC News or, you know, all the kind of mass media that, you know, appearances where you've been popping up. I feel like that little movie really put you on a map, on the map in a very mainstream way.

• 8:57Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, it did. It was very, very unexpected. And it's really surprising, the, the, the effect that it had on all different kinds of communities of people. I am still getting inboxes and Instagram direct messages and Twitter direct messages about this video.

• 9:23Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 9:23Mirna Valerio?

  Every day.

• 9:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it was great. Well, it was so well done. It was beautifully articulated and it just gave you a really kind of intimate glimpse into, into your life and what you do and what you're about and what you're trying to put out into the world.

• 9:38Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, it was really, the filmmaker Sarah Menzies was really very careful to frame it in a way that was true to who I was. And she didn't try to sort of project any other things that people would want to hear, like a before and after kind of, of thing, or, you know, here's this weight loss story, because there is no weight loss story here. Well, there is, but that's not the point. But... I really, really enjoyed that. It was just, it was a very, very true and honest depiction of who I am.

• 10:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's interesting, this idea of before and after. I mean, everybody loves the before and after pictures on social media, and you're kind of like an antidote to that, like a counterpoint to that traditional idea of before and after. But there is a before and after aspect to, you know, your narrative arc of life.

• 10:35Mirna Valerio?

  Sure, I would call it a before and during. I'm still progressing to wherever I'm going to end up.

• 10:42Rich Roll?

  Aren't we all? Aren't we all? Where are you gonna end up?

• 10:48Mirna Valerio?

  Who knows? You know, I, I've been presented with so many opportunities this year, last year, in the past two and a half years, really. And I'm still in education, I still love my job. I have no idea. Things are exploding at a rate that I cannot keep up with. I'm enjoying the ride. I know it's not sustainable, but yeah, I'm figuring that out.

• 11:12Rich Roll?

  Why do you think it's not sustainable?

• 11:13Mirna Valerio?

  I don't know.

• 11:14Rich Roll?

  What about it isn't?

• 11:15Mirna Valerio?

  You know, because I don't, I don't know anybody that has ever experienced what I am experiencing right now, in a good way. Being a presence in all kinds of media, getting to write a book, and having it do well. And, you know, just, just being, having a platform, having many platforms for the message that I have.

• 11:44Rich Roll?

  But do you, so do you have this sense that it's gonna get pulled out from underneath you, or it's gonna go away? Like, I see it just building.

• 11:50Mirna Valerio?

  I have a fear, yeah. I do. I have a fear that it's all gonna crash and burn.

• 11:53Rich Roll?

  I feel that way, too. And I've been doing this for a little while. So I'm always like, yeah, who's gonna take it away? But I think the truth is, you're just at the very beginning of, of building, you know, this really powerful movement. And it's, it's resonating with people, I think, in a really interesting and unique way. And in a very kind of practical, professional manner, you can see it being manifested just simply by virtue of the fact that You have like, you have like all these sponsors, like, you know, like, like the, the whole traditional idea of like, companies that sponsor athletes based on podiums and what's your race schedule? That's shifting, I think, and I think that's for the good.

• 12:36Rich Roll?

  And they're recognizing that people with, with, with platforms and specific points of views that are developing audiences that are resonating with that have value to these brands. And so I think it's really cool that all of these brands are stepping up to support the work that you're doing. I mean, how, who do you, who, who, you got like, you have, well, obviously I have REI, right?

• 12:56Mirna Valerio?

  Merrill.

• 12:56Rich Roll?

  Merrill.

• 12:57Mirna Valerio?

  Skirt Sports.

• 12:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's Nicole, that's Nicole Boom's company, right?

• 13:01Mirna Valerio?

  Yes, and who now is a dear friend and.

• 13:05Rich Roll?

  I helped her, like, I did a little consulting with her on getting her podcast up.

• 13:09Mirna Valerio?

  And she's amazing.

• 13:10Rich Roll?

  She's cool.

• 13:11Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, she's a really cool person and a wonderful human being.

• 13:18Rich Roll?

  Swiftwick?

• 13:19Mirna Valerio?

  So there's Swiftwick. And, and then I have my physical therapist in New York City, even though I don't live in New York City anymore.

• 13:29Mirna Valerio?

  New York Custom Therapy, Custom Performance Therapy. And, and they, I am still feeling like I'm in a dream state. When, you know, I get a call or an email, what do you need? What, you know, what clothing do you need? What apparel do you need? What shoes do you need for your next race or your next whatever, a kind of event? So that's, that's really cool. And it is, it is very telling of the shift in paradigm that is happening right now. And it's not a trend. It's not going to go away because ultimately having a bigger scope of who you represent or who represents you as an athletic brand is going to help your bottom line.

• 14:11Mirna Valerio?

  And people like me, people who have my body type, people of my race, people of my gender, we have money and we want to spend it. So it's, I think it's really incumbent upon these, these companies to continue this, the work that they're doing to, to broaden the scope of their, their apparel.

• 14:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think it's, it's weird that so many of them are still stuck in that old model because. These athletes at the highest level, like they're, they're going to be sponsored by the people that are going to pay them the most. And then they're going to say whatever because that's who's sponsoring them.

• 14:44Mirna Valerio?

  Right.

• 14:45Rich Roll?

  But you can't manufacture the honesty and the integrity and authenticity of somewhat like, someone like yourself brings into that equation. Because you're just, you're living your life and you're spreading it with love and with an open heart and all this sort of thing. And it's like, that's what every brand wants. It's like, to me, it's, it seems so obvious.

• 15:03Mirna Valerio?

  Well, every brand doesn't want that. And I, yeah, just like you said, I don't think every brand is there yet. There are still some brands that are very, very aspirational in terms of the body types they want presenting or representing what they have to offer in the athletic industry. But I think eventually it will be very difficult for them to stay in that frame of mind or to, to continue that way of thinking because then they're going to lose market share. There will always be elite athletes. We will always praise them.

• 15:45Mirna Valerio?

  They will always show us the potential of very high performing humans. And we still need that. We still want that. We, we, we want people to look up to. And we want people to role model the highest form of athleticism. But we also need people to be represented that are not elite, that are engaged in athletics because we love it. It's good for us. It's good for humanity. It's good for us spiritually, emotionally and physically. And yeah, and so I think, you know, more and more companies are.

• 16:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And just as ambassadors that, that the average person can connect with, that can, they can relate to.

• 16:28Mirna Valerio?

  Yes.

• 16:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So let's, let's step it back a little bit.

• 16:31Mirna Valerio?

  Right.

• 16:32Rich Roll?

  Grew up in Brooklyn.

• 16:33Mirna Valerio?

  Yep.

• 16:34Rich Roll?

  In Bushwick, right?

• 16:35Mirna Valerio?

  In Bushwick, Brooklyn. Yes. Yes.

• 16:38Rich Roll?

  And so what was that like?

• 16:39Mirna Valerio?

  I loved. I still love it. I loved growing up in Bushwick. We had a great community of people. It was a primarily Italian and Puerto Rican neighborhood that I grew up in. We were always outside playing, running up and down the block and doing various things. And it was a really fun experience, growing up with that kind of community in an urban setting. You will not find that anymore.

• 17:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that neighborhood's changed a lot.

• 17:14Mirna Valerio?

  Gentrification. We can talk about that in the next podcast.

• 17:18Rich Roll?

  Mirna Valerio on gentrification. We'll do it in NPR voices.

• 17:24Mirna Valerio?

  I'm Terry Gross. But yeah, it was, it was, it was great, even though it was a, a working class, a working class neighborhood with a lot of families who were living under the poverty line in the mix. And sometimes that was my family, sometimes it wasn't. It was, we really had a very, very strong sense of family, friends. And I'm, I'm still friends and family with those people that I grew up with. And, and I still consider that my home, even though I live in Georgia.

• 18:03Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 18:04Mirna Valerio?

  But yeah, even, you know, we were outside all the time, going to the parks, riding our bikes around the block, dodging cars, playing skele in the middle of the street.

• 18:15Rich Roll?

  Right. Like no, no organized sports at school, but just living, being active kids and running around and all of that. And, and you grew up with a very strong kind of sense of the importance of education. You had a mom that really prioritized that. Sounds like your dad was gone a lot though, right? Dad is from Honduras?

• 18:33Mirna Valerio?

  Well, I had, I have my stepfather and my mom. They were, they're my parents. And I had my, my biological father who lived in Honduras. And, you know, I had a relationship with him too, a very good one, even though we didn't see each other a lot. He was still a, he was still a presence in my life because he had many other kids.

• 18:58Rich Roll?

  Okay, that's another podcast.

• 19:01Mirna Valerio?

  But, uh, all over the world. But, um, it was, uh, yeah, and it was a very strong family unit. Yes, as you said, education was very important. Um, and I was just like, yeah, we did have dinner at home. Uh, we told jokes around the table every night and imitated people in the family. Um, and, uh, yeah, and it's not, um, that is not the way things are now, um, like in that particular neighborhood. But, um, yeah, so it was, yeah. So I had that.

• 19:34Rich Roll?

  And, and you, I mean, you were somebody who, who showed quite a bit of promise academically from a very early age, right? Like you were in the sort of the gifted classes and all of that kind of separated out like this is a kid to keep an eye on.

• 19:48Mirna Valerio?

  Yes, I was, um, always a nerd. Um,

• 19:50Rich Roll?

  What were you like, like what kind of nerd? Like Star Trek nerd or like physics textbooks?

• 19:58Mirna Valerio?

  I, well, I loved reading. I would, I was really, really creative and I was like, I devised things like, um, I would write tests when I was eight or nine for my, um, my younger brother. And, uh, I would create my own library, um, my own lending library at home. I did things like that.

• 20:19Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, I think I read somewhere your stepdad would bring home books to you and he brought home like a gastro and

• 20:26Mirna Valerio?

  He brought home

• 20:27Rich Roll?

  You're like devouring that over the summer or something?

• 20:31Mirna Valerio?

  It was like a five inch thick book. Uh, it was like the, the guide to family medicine. And, um, and I was so enthralled by everything in that book. I read it from cover to cover several times. Um, and if I could find it, there would probably be notes in the margins. And, uh, and that sparked my interest for, um, a possible career in medicine. And that's where I wanted, I thought that I wanted to be a gastroenterologist because I, I thought that that was the, the kind of doctor that dealt with diabetes, um, and other endocrine issues and because that was becoming a problem in my family. And so, um, but that idea was thwarted when I saw the movie Gross Anatomy.

• 21:16Mirna Valerio?

  Back in the 10th grade and I didn't realize that you had to deal with cadavers in your medical training.

• 21:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's kind of part of the deal.

• 21:24Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, yeah, well.

• 21:25Rich Roll?

  So that was it, like medicine's done?

• 21:26Mirna Valerio?

  So that was that. I decided to become a musician.

• 21:30Rich Roll?

  Right. And we're going to talk about that because that's super interesting. That doesn't, I don't think that gets talked about enough in your story. I mean, you were like an incredible talent, right? That didn't, that came a little bit, well, you were singing in the choir, right? Like church was a big deal. Like your whole Sunday was about.

• 21:45Mirna Valerio?

  Oh my goodness. So my mom would send us to church. She wouldn't go. And I think this was her way of, of engaging in self-care. She would send all of us to church with our cousins and aunts and uncles and we would stay in church all day from Sunday school. All day. We would leave at 7:30. The church fan would come and pick us up and then we would do Sunday school and then have to do a report out. And this was my first sort of experience with presentational skills. And, and then we would have a couple of different services during the day and then during our breaks, I would take out my medical book.

• 22:28Mirna Valerio?

  And read it. And, and actually the, the pastor was very, very, very intelligent and what he would have us do with smart kids in the congregation is that he would have us present on whatever we were studying. And so I did a whole presentation on, on diabetes. Melitus and, or Melitus. And, and that, I loved that. I loved presenting. I loved showing people how much I knew. I was a little bit obnoxious about that, but, but yeah, it was, it was great. And then, so yeah, so we would do that and we'd go to another service and then get home at around 11:00 on a Sunday night and then have to go to school the next day.

• 23:10Rich Roll?

  Wow. And Pentecostal, I mean, that's kind of, that's fire and brimstone stuff, right?

• 23:14Mirna Valerio?

  Holy rollers, fire and brimstone. I eventually left the church.

• 23:18Rich Roll?

  Is that like talking, talking in tongues?

• 23:20Mirna Valerio?

  Talking in tongues, getting the Holy Ghost. Oh yeah.

• 23:25Rich Roll?

  Really?

• 23:25Mirna Valerio?

  Anointing people with oil, screaming and you know, the typical, the, the sort of stereotypical things that you would see depicted as a Pentecostal church or a Baptist church, that's the kind of church that we went to.

• 23:41Mirna Valerio?

  So.

• 23:42Rich Roll?

  Was there, I mean, are you, was there a point where you gravitated away?

• 23:46Mirna Valerio?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. As, as I, I actually read the Bible a couple of times myself. And, you know, and eventually I decided that I did not agree with most of it.

• 24:00Mirna Valerio?

  In terms of the way women were treated and the way women were expected to sort of be and exist in reference to men.

• 24:11Mirna Valerio?

  And so I left the church, actually. By the time I graduated college is when I decided that I was no longer Christian.

• 24:19Rich Roll?

  Okay, so it wasn't like when you were in seventh grade?

• 24:20Mirna Valerio?

  No. Well, well, I did show signs of being a rebel in Sunday School when, when I read something that I had a question about or, or that I, I did not agree with. And sometimes I would get in trouble for, or I would get told on by my cousins because I didn't agree with something. And, but that's just, that's kind of the way I process things. You know, I would read something and then have a, I don't, I don't, I don't know about that. But, um, yeah, I'm, I'm definitely a questioner.

• 24:58Rich Roll?

  You're a questioner. On the Gretchen Rubin, did you read that book?

• 25:02Mirna Valerio?

  Yes, I did.

• 25:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, okay. So by the time you're in, in seventh grade, though, here, here's where things kind of shift into a different gear for you because you end up going to this fancy hoity-toity prep school up in Westchester.

• 25:16Mirna Valerio?

  Well, um, oh, in seventh grade, I was still, it was ninth grade that I went to the prep school. But in seventh grade was when I was identified as somebody that was qualified for that program. It was called Prep for Prep, Prep for Prep 9, actually, and it's still in existence. And actually, a lot of Prep 9 people are here at this conference.

• 25:33Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 25:34Mirna Valerio?

  Because they have become educators, too.

• 25:36Rich Roll?

  And that's sort of a program to identify, you know, promising young, young people.

• 25:41Mirna Valerio?

  Yes, gifted and talented kids from the New York City metro to, and what it does is prepare us for entry into elite private schools. So.

• 25:54Rich Roll?

  Right. So when this opportunity arises in ninth grade to go to boarding school, it sounds from your book, which I love, by the way.

• 26:02Mirna Valerio?

  Thank you.

• 26:03Rich Roll?

  Like, I really love your book. I'm not done with you. I'm about halfway done. You're a really good writer.

• 26:08Mirna Valerio?

  Thank you very much.

• 26:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, it's really good.

• 26:12Rich Roll?

  That you were like, you're all about it. Like, this is just an amazing opportunity. You're not resisting like the idea of leaving home or anything like that.

• 26:19Mirna Valerio?

  Oh, no.

• 26:19Rich Roll?

  Like, you just couldn't wait to get there.

• 26:21Mirna Valerio?

  Look, the first time I left home was when I went to summer camp. And I was hooked. I was hooked to or hooked on being away, being on my own. Because I've always been extremely independent, as is my son, Karma. And I just love the experience of constantly meeting new people and having new experiences. And that's what boarding school was for me. And my, my family was totally for it.

• 26:52Mirna Valerio?

  They saw it as a way for me to, to get out, which I did. And, and it was an amazing experience.

• 27:00Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there's this passage in the book where you and your mom take all your stuff on the train because nobody drives and you don't have a car.

• 27:07Mirna Valerio?

  That is still true.

• 27:08Rich Roll?

  You're like schlepping all your stuff. Yeah. And, and your mom doesn't want to leave. And it's very sweet, you know? But this is now an environment very different from, from Bushwick, right?

• 27:18Mirna Valerio?

  Yes.

• 27:18Rich Roll?

  I mean, probably not that many African American kids.

• 27:22Mirna Valerio?

  My, my school probably, my school was the master's school. And it probably had more diversity, racial diversity than other schools at the time. But it was still a predominantly white school. Very different. But the great thing was that the program that I was in, Prep for Prep 9, had had us live at two different boarding schools before we actually went to boarding school. So it wasn't a shock to our system. We kind of knew the unspoken rules because they had been stated to us explicitly in our training. And we were prepared academically, socially. A couple of us still had some issues sort of fitting in.

• 28:04Mirna Valerio?

  I didn't have any of those issues because I went to a very small all-girls school. And I was immediately loved and embraced.

• 28:12Rich Roll?

  That was the, the clear impression from the book is that there was no resistance at all. Everybody just rolled the welcome mat out.

• 28:18Mirna Valerio?

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And that school is still like that.

• 28:21Rich Roll?

  And you, you kind of describe yourself as, as introverted as a young person. But I have a very hard time seeing that. I, I think that's false.

• 28:28Mirna Valerio?

  No one believes me when I say that it was, I was very shy.

• 28:35Mirna Valerio?

  And, you know, I think it was. It was probably a function of a lot of different things, but I come from a pretty loud family and I was always the one that was like kind of in a corner or in the bathroom reading. And I'm still like that to a certain extent. I am definitely an introvert, but I can be extroverted when I need to be. But I was, I was very timid, very shy. But as soon as I got to high school, people started noticing that I was talented at singing. I was talented at drama, or I could play sports. And so people appreciated me for that, so I felt like I could just be my whole self. And so I think that helps if you're an introvert or somebody that is timid or shy and those

• 29:19Mirna Valerio?

  things aren't necessarily the same. But if, if you are someone like that and people appreciate your talents and appreciate you for who you are, it brings you out. It pulls you out.

• 29:29Rich Roll?

  And at this point, ninth grade, you're already, you're, you're larger than the other kids.

• 29:36Mirna Valerio?

  Oh, yeah.

• 29:37Rich Roll?

  Right? So there's pictures of you when you were really young, like you looked normal and all, you know, all that kind of stuff. So at some point, you start putting on a little bit more weight than everyone else and you enter into this new environment, but you're determined to play sports, like you just can't wait to play sports. And so there's this very, you know, beautiful section in which you vividly describe like your first field hockey practice.

• 30:02Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, that, that day will forever remain etched in my memory.

• 30:10Rich Roll?

  Well, it's like the foundation for everything that followed because despite the adversity and the difficulty of it for you and how new and challenging it was, like you still embraced it. And you were embraced by, by, by your peers as well. It wasn't like, oh, she should leave, she shouldn't be on the team or anything like that. That's, that I think is really kind of an amazing thing. I mean, had that, had that social dynamic been different, you might be like living a different life right now.

• 30:37Mirna Valerio?

  Exactly. I probably would have left and gone to Brooklyn Tech like I was supposed to go to and been a doctor. But yeah, that first day was incredible, even though it was extremely difficult because I'd never had to exert that much energy in my life before. And everything about trying out for field hockey was new to me. Everything was new. Being on a team, running as much as I had to do. We ran two miles that day and I had never run more than probably from my house to the street lamp down the block. And yeah, so it was in the difficulty, I

• 31:21Mirna Valerio?

  loved the difficulty of it, even though it was painful in the moment. I learned that my body could do it. And so I love that. And I love the fact that the coach came up to me and said, you know, this is hard, right? But you're doing it. Good job. Keep going.

• 31:41Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 31:42Mirna Valerio?

  Like, that's all I needed to hear.

• 31:43Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 31:44Mirna Valerio?

  And nobody was disparaging. The older members of the team were very, they were very encouraging and cheerful and just wonderful people. And that, that really made an impression on me. And so I wanted to do whatever I could do to get better, to be a better athlete on that team.

• 32:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that wasn't my experience when I tried to play basketball in seventh grade. It didn't go very well. It was not, it was not welcomed or well received.

• 32:11Mirna Valerio?

  I remember listening to that in your book.

• 32:15Rich Roll?

  Anyway, that's beautiful. I mean, I think that's, that's great. And it sounds like you kind of had a charmed, you know, experience at the school.

• 32:23Mirna Valerio?

  Oh, I absolutely did.

• 32:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 32:24Mirna Valerio?

  I really did. And when I graduated from masters, I, that summer, I was depressed the entire summer because I wasn't there. And I knew I wasn't going back. And I was going to college. And that's a whole other story. But, but yeah, it was, it was a really wonderful experience.

• 32:43Rich Roll?

  So during this period of time, you start to find your voice as an artist as well, right? You start to sing and you're definitely getting, getting the kudos in that regard. Everyone's like, whoa.

• 32:53Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, that was really cool.

• 32:54Rich Roll?

  This girl could sing. And so you end up going to Julliard while you're in high school, right? On the weekends?

• 32:59Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah. So Julliard has this pre-college division. It's really

• 33:04Mirna Valerio?

  Hard to get into. Of course, at the time, I didn't know. I mean, I had heard of Julliard. But to me, it was just another LaGuardia High School of the Arts, right? And I'd never expected to be part of that. It was never on my radar. But as I sort of blossomed into the singer on campus in ninth grade, I started taking lessons, and voice lessons and piano lessons. And so, yeah, I became this soloist. And my first music teacher there at Masters encouraged me to apply to Julliard pre-college. And I said, "Okay, sure. What do I have to do?"

• 33:48Mirna Valerio?

  So she taught me a couple of songs in German and in French. And so I went down and auditioned twice, and then I got in. And I was one of three voice majors in that program.

• 34:00Rich Roll?

  That's crazy.

• 34:00Mirna Valerio?

  And so, yeah, thus began this whole experience of being in a very, very, very high-level music institution. And I still didn't quite get where I was until the 11th grade. And so, yeah, I still feel like that's a dream.

• 34:20Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 34:20Mirna Valerio?

  That I had that connection to Julliard.

• 34:21Rich Roll?

  And when you were doing that, was it focused on opera or just general voice development? Or what was it like?

• 34:26Mirna Valerio?

  It was because when you're a young singer in high school, you don't want your students to be singing heavy opera. You learn a little bit. You learn your arias.

• 34:40Mirna Valerio?

  You don't study any roles, though. You focus on building the instrument and learning repertoire that is appropriate for your level. But in that, I'm a linguist, and I learned languages very easily. So I got to learn a lot of different repertoire and a lot of different languages. And so that was kind of my hallmark. Yeah, so.

• 35:01Rich Roll?

  Right. And so when you graduate high school, was there a consideration that you would continue at Julliard? Could you have graduated into a program there? I mean, you ended up going to Oberlin, and that has a conservancy of music there, right? So you continued to pursue your music there, but was there an inkling of staying in New York?

• 35:21Mirna Valerio?

  My teacher, Lorraine Newbar, who also taught in the college division.

• 35:31Mirna Valerio?

  Really, really warned me against even auditioning for Julliard because it's a very, very cutthroat institution. And you know, and I'm really, really happy she did that. I didn't want to stay in the city anyway.

• 35:43Rich Roll?

  Like a black swan kind of thing?

• 35:45Mirna Valerio?

  Exactly. People putting razor blades in the piano and the piano keys. And I didn't want any part of that. And for me, it probably would have been very distracting with having my family there. And I love my family, but I really needed to be away. So I decided to go to

• 36:05Rich Roll?

  So you go to Overland. But was the idea then still like, I'm going to pursue music?

• 36:08Mirna Valerio?

  Well, I did. I didn't know yet. So I entered the double degree program, which I have a degree in music, and I have a degree, and I have a BM, and I have a BA. And my BA is in Spanish. So I didn't know. So I studied each thing equally with equal intensity. But then, you know, as I did the program, you know, it's still extremely high level conservatory. It's one of the best in the world. I'm looking at other things. I'm looking at, maybe I want to do poli sci. Maybe I want to do math. Maybe, I don't know, maybe

• 36:49Mirna Valerio?

  I want to do comparative literature. But I had most of my credits in Spanish. So I decided eventually to just stay with Spanish. And I spent a semester in Spain. That's another part of the book. But yeah, eventually I decided that that's not, it wasn't really what I wanted. I had auditioned for about two years in New York City. And I decided that I didn't want that life. I didn't want to be poor. I didn't want to be a starving artist because I grew up poor, and I didn't want any part of that.

• 37:23Rich Roll?

  Right. And also the tunnel vision that that would require, right?

• 37:26Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah.

• 37:27Rich Roll?

  That's just, that's all you're doing.

• 37:29Mirna Valerio?

  And I'd actually, before, I'd actually gotten into Westminster Choir College with a really, really big scholarship. But I knew that there was no academic program. And I did not want any part of that. Because I needed something else. And I'm still like that. I need the music. I need the language stuff. I need the writing stuff. It just makes me feel like a whole person.

• 37:52Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 37:59Rich Roll?

  So when you finish Oberlin, you kind of have to make that decision like, am I going to really pursue the music or am I going to just, you know, go like, you know, do what other college graduates do? And you chose the latter. And you end up in, you end up in New York City, like, working at this big accounting firm, right? Like, that's hilarious. Like, KPMG or something like that?

• 38:20Mirna Valerio?

  Yes. That job was great. I loved the work. I loved the money. And, you know, it afforded me a lot of luxuries. I could, I had my own apartment. I didn't have to have a roommate. And, you know, I went out to restaurants and went to theater productions and operas. It was awesome. And I would not be able to do that now. But, yeah, I decided eventually that although I loved the work, I did not love the people that I worked with. And talk about tunnel vision. Lots of folks, not everyone, that work in corporate America, in my opinion, are very, very narrow minded. And they need to be, I think, in order to

• 39:05Mirna Valerio?

  be successful at whatever it is they're doing. And so, and I had considered the legal profession for a little bit, worked as a paralegal and a legal assistant and a translator for a little bit. I did, I loved the work. I didn't love the people.

• 39:19Rich Roll?

  At like a big, at a New York law firm?

• 39:21Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, various New York law firms.

• 39:22Rich Roll?

  Oh, you did? Yeah, yeah. So I know what that life, that life is like as well. But like, I lacked your level of self-awareness to see that that was what I didn't want and continue to pursue that longer than I should have. But to be able to have that kind of emotional maturity at that age to see, okay, this is good and I like these things about it. But ultimately, yeah, it's a no-go for me. To be able to step outside of that when you're, when you are getting paid well and you come from very different circumstances, that, that's not an easy decision to make.

• 39:50Mirna Valerio?

  It's not, but I, I knew that I would not be able to survive emotionally. Because there, you know, I'd experienced a lot of slights at all of the places that I worked at. And I said, that is not something I want to keep experiencing.

• 40:10Rich Roll?

  Slights like, like racial slights?

• 40:11Mirna Valerio?

  Well, not racial slights.

• 40:16Mirna Valerio?

  Where I, and this is a common thing with, with women, where I would do like amazing work and then somebody else would get the credit for it, or you know, you're in a meeting and you say something and no one listens to you, but someone, a man says the same thing and it's, oh my God, that's revolutionary.

• 40:35Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 40:36Mirna Valerio?

  And I was like, you know what? I'm not about that life, so, and I can't sit here and, and just take it all in and, you know, and just like live with that level of toxicity. And so, so when I was, I was leadoff from one of the jobs, I saw that as an opportunity to reconfigure and, and sort of figure out what my next steps would be.

• 40:59Rich Roll?

  But it was during this period of time where you kind of connected with running for the first time, right?

• 41:04Mirna Valerio?

  Well, it wasn't, it wasn't the first time. It was, because I had continued to run recreationally and just, just as a part of a regular fitness routine, even, even though I was working like eighty, a hundred hours a week, I still found times, I didn't have a kid and, you know, and I could, I could be up all night. So I would, after work, I would go, go to the gym and run on the treadmill or whatever and, or run outside of my apartment building in Riverdale and, but I did find a running clinic at that time that was, that was really cool through the hospital for special surgery on the east side of New York City.

• 41:48Mirna Valerio?

  And that was an eight week thing and it kind of reignited my love for running at that, that time. It was 1999, I think. And, and so that is what got me into 5Ks, 5Ks and 10Ks because we were preparing for a 10K.

• 42:03Rich Roll?

  And that was more, that was like running instruction. It wasn't just like a group, right?

• 42:07Mirna Valerio?

  No, it was, it was instruction. They had panelists and they had different people running with us.

• 42:12Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow.

• 42:13Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, and. I really think they had Greta Whites come and do one of the panelist discussions, which is, that's really cool.

• 42:25Rich Roll?

  That's cool.

• 42:26Mirna Valerio?

  And they had other people, they had Olympians, they had people who were physical therapists, they had doctors come in and talk to us, you know, just about the benefits of running. And so, and that obviously has stayed with me.

• 42:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 42:38Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah.

• 42:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so you got like this little, little master's degree in running, right? On the side.

• 42:45Mirna Valerio?

  It was great, and I loved, I just loved being, running on the east side esplanade and having that routine. And after that, I would always go to the groceries, the, the fruit market on the corner and like get my fruits and then go home. It was a really nice routine to have. And I also met my husband during that time.

• 43:03Rich Roll?

  He was like on a subway platform during Blizzard. So romantic.

• 43:09Mirna Valerio?

  It is a very romantic story that my students always ask me, they always ask me to tell this story over and over again.

• 43:17Rich Roll?

  So tell it. If it's so good that they're asking you to tell it, I feel like I should ask you.

• 43:21Mirna Valerio?

  Because I do my husband's accent, so, okay.

• 43:23Rich Roll?

  He's West African, right?

• 43:24Mirna Valerio?

  He's West, he's West African, he's from Burkina Faso, which if you don't know what Burkina Faso is, it used to be called Upper Volta. And, and so, yeah, so I'm working at KPMG and I'm working onsite in Newark, New Jersey. Or as they say, on the PATH train, Newark, New Jersey. And there's a storm in, in, in the area, and both Penn stations in New York City and Newark, New Jersey are without power. And, which is a really, really odd occurrence. So I'm stuck at work because I did a counter commute because I lived in the Bronx and I would commute all the way to New Jersey, like an hour and a half commute every day, both

• 44:09Mirna Valerio?

  ways. And so I decided to stay at work. Hey, I'm gonna get overtime anyway. I'm gonna stay at work until the, the trains are back up and running because I didn't have a car. All of the buses and train, Amtrak trains had been sold out, so I was just gonna wait. And earn money while I did that. And finally, we get word that the trains are back up and running. I go downstairs to the platform. I'm waiting on the platform for a long time. And this guy walks past me and looks me up and down. And I'm like, not today, not today. In my head, don't, I'm not in the mood. And so he walks away and just a couple of steps away from me. And after a couple of minutes, he comes up to me and says,

• 44:52Mirna Valerio?

  um, I'm so sorry, excuse me. Can you tell me if this train goes to New York? And I said, it's very New York.

• 45:05Mirna Valerio?

  I said, the sign says train to New York. Right. And then he's like, oh, I'm so sorry. Thank you, thank you. Goes away. I'm like, ah. And he comes back again a couple of minutes later and says, excuse me, excuse me. Um, I'm so sorry to bother you. If I want to go to Brooklyn, where do I have to get off? Last stop, World Trade Center, because this is before nine 11. Right. Um, he said, okay, thank you so much. Thank you so much. And he asked a couple of other stupid questions. Finally, the, oh, and when the train is coming into the station, he, he says, um, where do I have to sit? I'm like, it doesn't matter. And the train opens doors. You've been to America like one day?

• 45:50Mirna Valerio?

  Right, you know, and I'm like really annoyed because it's late and I just want to get home. I'm gonna have two hours of sleep before I have to get up and go back to work. And the train comes, I sit down. He sits in the same car. Um, and I was like, oh, God. There comes more questions. Right. So I take out my book and I'm reading. I'm gastronomically.

• 46:20Mirna Valerio?

  We were the only two people on the train, in that car. And I was reading my book, and he comes over to me, and he sidles over to me, and he said, "Oh, you're reading?" I'm like, "Yes." He's like, "What are you reading?" I'm like, "A book." And he says, "No, no, no, who's the author?" And so, I'm thinking in my head, "He's not gonna know, he's not gonna know who this is." I'm like, "Milan Kundera." And he says, "Oh, the Czech author." And in that moment, I was stunned, blown away. And I said, "What, come again? Yeah, yeah, didn't he write..." Now I can't remember, "The Book of Laughter and Forgetting."

• 47:05Mirna Valerio?

  Didn't he write "The Book of Laughter and Forgetting?" I'm like, "Yeah, uh-huh, keep going." And he also wrote this, and he also wrote that. And, "Have you read this? Have you read this by Chinua Achebe? Have you read..." And I'm like, "Oh, oh, okay, oh, I haven't read that." And so, immediately, my interests are sparked. I think, I said this in the book, that he was playing me at my own game, because I would use questions like that to immediately rule out people. Like, if they didn't listen to jazz, if they didn't know anything about classical music, or if they didn't read the New York Times, I would just, I would rule them out, because I didn't want to be bothered.

• 47:47Mirna Valerio?

  But, yeah, yeah, totally turned the tables on me. And then we ended up talking, and I started speaking to him in French, because he had an accent. And so, I said, I asked him where he was from, and then, so I said, "Would it be easier for me to speak to you in French?" And so, we spoke in French for the rest of the, the rest of the ride. We get to the end of the ride, he says, "Thank you so much." And I said, "Okay, bye, thanks, see you." He's like, no, no, no, no, no, please, please. I would like to thank you by giving you these books I have. You know, the Chino Achebe books. And I said, no, it's okay. I can buy my own books. I have a job. Like, I have a really good job. He's like, no, no, no, please, please, please, you help me so much.

• 48:30Mirna Valerio?

  And I don't remember the moment that I gave him my work phone number, but I did. And, and then he called me every day afterwards.

• 48:39Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 48:40Mirna Valerio?

  Every single day. And it turns out that he, when we finally met up for a drink, he forgot his books because he was going to give me the books, right?

• 48:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that was the whole pretense.

• 48:52Mirna Valerio?

  Right.

• 48:55Mirna Valerio?

  And we just had, we had great conversation and started dating. And the rest is history. He never had any books. And the reason he knew all of the titles, all of the Milan Kundera titles is because he used to work for his uncle, who was a bookseller.

• 49:15Rich Roll?

  And what brought him to the States?

• 49:18Mirna Valerio?

  What brings a lot of immigrants to the States looking for better opportunities, a better life? And yeah. And so he had only been in the States for about three months when I met him.

• 49:31Rich Roll?

  Beautiful. That is a great story. I can see why they always want you to tell it. You tell it very well.

• 49:37Mirna Valerio?

  Thank you.

• 49:39Rich Roll?

  So, so at what point does, does the idea of teaching come into the picture?

• 49:43Mirna Valerio?

  Well, when I was unemployed.

• 49:47Mirna Valerio?

  I, it was great being on unemployment for a couple of months.

• 49:55Mirna Valerio?

  I did a lot of reading. I did a lot of writing and a lot of exploring my own city. And, but after a while, I got bored. And it turned out that I had actually needed a break because right after I graduated, and I graduated from college in the middle of the year, I immediately started working. I didn't take a break against my mother's wishes. She said, you've been working for a really long time. You can just sit at home and just do nothing. And I said, absolutely not.

• 50:29Mirna Valerio?

  But, but I did take that break and it was, it was very needed. But I was, I was. I was getting bored and so I called my alma mater, the master's school, and I said, "Hey, do you guys need somebody to come and teach voice or piano?" You know, I'd do it as a volunteer. And the next day I was there, working.

• 50:54Rich Roll?

  That was it?

• 50:54Mirna Valerio?

  That was it. And then that blossomed into that year. Unfortunately, somebody on the faculty had a nervous breakdown and I ended up taking over her position for the rest of the year as a middle school music teacher. And I had never envisioned myself as someone who worked with little kids. But after three days of doing it, I fell in love with the energy, the enthusiasm, the curiosity that these students had for whatever I presented to them.

• 51:26Rich Roll?

  Right. And you, I mean, at this point, you're not that much older than them. I mean, you're still really young.

• 51:32Mirna Valerio?

  I was, I was, what, 22, 23, maybe?

• 51:35Rich Roll?

  So, but that just, the switch was flipped and you're like, this is what I wanted.

• 51:39Mirna Valerio?

  Well, I didn't decide right then and there that this is what I wanted to do. I said, "You know what? I'll do this for a couple of years and see how that goes." Because it's fun, I get to engage all of my interests. I'm in a place that I love, because it was my alma mater, and I'm doing music. And, yeah, I loved it. I had a great time.

• 52:03Rich Roll?

  Right. And so you end up teaching there for a while and then you end up at a couple different, you were in New Jersey and you were in Maryland for a while, right? Which, what school in Maryland?

• 52:13Mirna Valerio?

  I was at the Park School of Baltimore in Maryland, a very, very progressive school.

• 52:17Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 52:18Mirna Valerio?

  Which, I mean, I loved the students and I loved my job. I just didn't love Maryland.

• 52:23Rich Roll?

  Right. But you're progressively becoming more and more in love with teaching and the kids and all of that, right?

• 52:29Mirna Valerio?

  And it came very naturally to me. Yeah.

• 52:33Rich Roll?

  So let's fast forward to kind of another seminal moment, which is this health scare that you had in 2008, because that really precipitated this chapter that you're now enjoying in your life, right?

• 52:47Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, yeah. Okay, so when I moved down to Maryland, my son was about one and a half, and that was in 2004. I guess I was just looking for something new. I didn't want to teach music anymore because I felt I was feeling more and more progressively that that music teachers were underappreciated, as they still are.

• 53:11Rich Roll?

  Oh, no, they're not.

• 53:14Mirna Valerio?

  So I was in about that life. And so I decided to switch over to Spanish. And so one of the jobs that was most appealing to me, because it was in a progressive school, was at the school in Baltimore. And so I moved down there. My husband stayed up in New York because he had his own job, and we were going to try to make it work. Moved down with my son, was by myself, I didn't have any family in the area, it was very stressful. And this was my first time having to deal with finding childcare and paying for it and working at a job that was, I was working in the lower school and the middle school. And so it was a very, very new experience.

• 53:59Mirna Valerio?

  The learning curve was very high. And then my son was always sick, so I missed a lot of school. And there was, you know, there was some question as to whether I was doing that on purpose or I was like hanging out in New York or whatever it was they thought I was doing. And so that was very stressful for me. And I gained a lot of weight when I was down there. And also I had to drive everywhere, and that was a new thing for me, coming from New York. I had to learn how to drive, and I'd actually bought a car before I learned how to drive.

• 54:33Rich Roll?

  Not smart.

• 54:34Mirna Valerio?

  Well, I do things backwards.

• 54:38Mirna Valerio?

  And um, and so, yeah, and so all of the things that I had been accustomed to doing in New York City, walking everywhere, taking public transportation, I was now driving everywhere. And my son, again, my son was always sick. I'm gaining weight. I'm having horrible headaches and hip prosthesis and just pain all throughout my body. And it's two year long sinus infection. And and and just, I wasn't sleeping. And and so because my son didn't sleep and through the night.

• 55:11Rich Roll?

  Right. How old was he at this time?

• 55:12Mirna Valerio?

  He was one and a half.

• 55:13Rich Roll?

  One and a half. Oh, that's like a lot.

• 55:15Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah. And you know, he didn't sleep through the night until he was almost 10 years old. And that's when I started sleeping. And so, yeah.

• 55:25Rich Roll?

  And now you get up at four.

• 55:26Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah. Yeah. And I love it. I love it. And so, yeah, so I was experiencing all the stress in my life, trying to make it work with school, trying to make it work with childcare, being on my own, having my husband come down on weekends, or I would go up to New York on the weekends. And it wasn't a, it wasn't a good deal.

• 55:46Rich Roll?

  Not a lot of self-care time.

• 55:47Mirna Valerio?

  No, none at all. And so, I stuck at the school for three years. Professionally, it was a good move for me. But personally, it probably wasn't the best move for me. So I decided to go back up north to New Jersey. And so I started working at the Purnell School there. It was a small, all-girls boarding school. And for some reason, I thought that would be less stressful. But at least I was closer to home. And and so, within a year of me being there, I was still very, very, I can use this word again, stressed. I was extraordinarily stressed. Because now I had a boarding component to

• 56:34Mirna Valerio?

  The school and um

• 56:36Rich Roll?

  Meaning you were living there?

• 56:36Mirna Valerio?

  I was living and and at the school, I was running a dorm.

• 56:40Rich Roll?

  So there's like no like you don't, there's no checking out at five o'clock?

• 56:43Mirna Valerio?

  No, no, no, no. And I I work at a boarding school now. It's a little bit better, but um it's a little bit more free time, but um but because it was a small school, you did everything. You taught, you did sports, you did tutorials, you did study hall, and you ran the dorm. Um in addition to being on duty, not just during the week, but on the weekends. And uh so that's when I think things really, really came to a head um late summer of two thousand eight. Um and and I maintained this side hustle uh on the weekends where I would teach piano, voice, guitar, French, Spanish, whatever people asked me to teach privately.

• 57:23Rich Roll?

  And more driving probably, right?

• 57:24Mirna Valerio?

  And more to lots of driving, you know, three hours each way. Um but uh but I actually really, really enjoyed going back to Maryland and not having to be there. Uh but and only being with the people that I love to be with. Um so that that was a good part of it, but you know, it was obviously taking a toll on my body, uh in addition to all of the things that I was experiencing um up at school. And uh so on my way back um from one of these weekend trips is when I started having chest pains. And they were pains that I'd never, ever had before um and and on the left side of my chest. And so I immediately thought that I was having a heart attack. Um because they were so that the pains were so insistent and um and sharp and like a sort of rhythmic.

• 58:10Mirna Valerio?

  And um and so I eventually pulled over, I had my son in the back of the car because he frequently came with me.

• 58:16Rich Roll?

  So it wasn't like something that was that started slow over the course of a couple of weeks?

• 58:20Mirna Valerio?

  No, it was just like out of nowhere.

• 58:21Rich Roll?

  Like it just hit you when you were in the car?

• 58:22Mirna Valerio?

  Out of nowhere. Uh I remember exactly where I was um on Route two twenty-two um near the Runners World campus. And uh how ironic, right?

• 58:34Rich Roll?

  That is like that you can't even, you can't make that up.

• 58:37Mirna Valerio?

  You cannot make it up. Um and so I pulled over and you know, after having all of these thoughts and and trying to figure out what I was gonna do, you know, was I gonna call nine one one? Was I gonna just sit here and die? Was I going to try to keep driving? I eventually decided to keep on driving.

• 58:57Rich Roll?

  A smart decision.

• 58:58Mirna Valerio?

  Right, it's really smart because I'm really smart.

• 59:02Mirna Valerio?

  And but I made a home and and had a friend drive me to the hospital. And and where it was determined that I was not having a heart attack. I mean, after you have to be there for eight hours with all the tests and everything. But the the attending physician said I was having a panic attack. And and I'm thinking, who me? A panic attack? I'm fine. But I wasn't fine, obviously, because my body had spoken. And, you know, that caused me to be very reflective of all of the things.

• 59:39Rich Roll?

  Do you think it was a panic attack? It doesn't sound like a panic attack to me. It sounds like a cardiac event, but.

• 59:45Mirna Valerio?

  Well, but I was also hyperventilating. And I had trouble sort of calming myself down. But I eventually calmed myself down. But, I mean, I now with I've done a little bit of research. It can feel like a an actual heart attack. And so but then I also remember that my mom had also experienced panic attacks at this age. Out of nowhere. And they're they're not out of nowhere, but.

• 1:00:16Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:00:17Mirna Valerio?

  They're just, you know, they're unexpected. And so so when I followed up with a cardiologist, he informed me that it, well, you know, this might have very well been a cardiac event. Because you have all of this inflammation in your bloodstream. You are you are overweight. You are living this lifestyle that is not sustainable. Because they, you know, they take you through all of the this huge questionnaire, what you know, what your lifestyle is. And it was very clear to him that it was not a very healthy lifestyle in terms of me not sleeping, in terms of me working all the time, in terms of my. You know, having, um, also, and also like my family history, having heart disease in the

• 1:01:02Mirna Valerio?

  family, um, um, and hypertension and stuff. I didn't have hypertension or heart disease or diabetes or anything, but those are things that, um, that are, um, very common in my family.

• 1:01:13Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:01:14Mirna Valerio?

  And, uh, he said, you know, with this family history and your lifestyle, you are going to have to change. You have to change now.

• 1:01:20Rich Roll?

  And at this point, you're like, you're 300, right?

• 1:01:23Mirna Valerio?

  I was over 300 pounds.

• 1:01:24Rich Roll?

  Over 300.

• 1:01:25Mirna Valerio?

  But it wasn't, uh, I wasn't way over 300 pounds, but it was definitely over 300 pounds. I hadn't weighed myself in years.

• 1:01:32Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:01:32Mirna Valerio?

  And, uh, um, so he said, I need you to change your lifestyle. I need you to, um, if you want to see your son grow up, this is what you're gonna need to do. And that, that was, uh, a moment of catharsis. And I said, okay.

• 1:01:51Mirna Valerio?

  In my head, okay, I know what I need to do. And so.

• 1:01:54Rich Roll?

  And so what did you need to do? Like, well, how did, how did, how did you translate that into a plan of action?

• 1:01:59Mirna Valerio?

  For me, that meant getting on my treadmill. Cause I had just purchased a treadmill. So I guess in the back of my head, I knew.

• 1:02:07Rich Roll?

  You were preparing for this.

• 1:02:09Mirna Valerio?

  I knew that I needed to do something. And, uh, yeah, so like, it, it took a few days, um, for me to sort of, uh, get my mind right and to get prepared for what I knew was going to be a long-term thing. Um, but, you know, I made a plan. I said, I'm gonna do a mile a day. Um, and that first mile back wasn't very pleasant.

• 1:02:35Rich Roll?

  Right. You're back at the, at the field hockey practice.

• 1:02:39Mirna Valerio?

  But it was even slower. It was 17 minutes and 45 seconds. Like, I remember like, I'd stopping it and having that time flash at me. And I was so disappointed at the, I asked myself, again, how did I let myself get to this point? Um, and so I said, you know what? Okay. All right. That's where I am now. Tomorrow hopefully we'll be better.

• 1:03:02Rich Roll?

  Own that, own that reality rather than perpetuate some level of denial about, you know, what was actually going on.

• 1:03:08Mirna Valerio?

  Right, exactly. And that's, that has, that's always been the way that I've been. Okay, well, this really sucks and I'm really sad about it, but I have to move on. So I did another mile the next day. It was a little bit better. The next day, a little bit better. It took a couple of weeks for me to get back into my groove. My mile was still really slow, but by then I started feeling better. Like, my face wasn't as puffy anymore. My dental health was a little bit better, just in a couple of weeks. And I was sleeping better.

• 1:03:47Rich Roll?

  Was there a goal in mind, or was this just, I'm gonna shift my lifestyle permanently? Or like, what was the mindset? Or how did you, you know, what was the mindset that you adopted to launch into the change and maintain it?

• 1:04:03Mirna Valerio?

  Well, my initial mindset was that I wanted to lose the 15 pounds that the doctor told me to, because I knew that was good for my body. And I knew, like, I knew the weight that I was carrying wasn't good for my particular body at that time. It didn't feel good. And I, yeah, it didn't feel good. And so that's, that was my initial, my initial goal. And it happened very quickly. I was able to do that. I wasn't only running a mile. Like, after about two weeks, I'd started adding a mile. I'd started doing a mile and a half, two miles. And then increasingly feeling that I was sort of back to my old self.

• 1:04:46Mirna Valerio?

  And then after a couple of weeks of that, I knew that I needed a goal, because I always need goals to sustain me and to keep me on a track of whatever I'm doing. Because if I don't have a goal, if I don't have a deadline, I'm just not gonna do it. So I said, you know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna sign up for a 5K because... That'd be nice. That would be something that would be great to work towards. Since I'm doing all this running, well, all this running, doing all this anyway. And so I signed up for a local 5K. And it was in April of that year. And I was pretty disappointed with my time.

• 1:05:30Mirna Valerio?

  And I was disappointed in the fact that it was, it seemed so difficult. Because I had done 5Ks before and they were not difficult. And previously, anyway. And so that was another thing. I said, okay, well, you know, my time was, whatever it was, I think it was like 48 or 47 minutes or something like that. I said, well, you know, I want to get, I want to at least get back down to my, the time, the last, the time of my last 5K, which was like 39 minutes or something. And so I worked towards that. I signed up for more 5Ks. I followed a loose, a very loose plan of how to get there. And, and so I decreased my times over that summer, the following summer and the summer after that.

• 1:06:14Rich Roll?

  And did you have people that you were doing this with? Did you have friends that you enlisted?

• 1:06:18Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, that first, that first summer, I enlisted my friend Nikki,

• 1:06:27Mirna Valerio?

  who was another teacher at the boarding school that I was working at. And she, you know, she had had her own fitness goals for that summer. And so she decided to, to come and work out with me. And we were, we were serious. I said, this is going to be, we're going to do Biggest Loser, Mirna and Nikki. Mirna and Nikki style. And so we worked out for like five hours a day sometimes.

• 1:06:51Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 1:06:52Mirna Valerio?

  That's all we did. We would run in the morning and then we would play tennis and we have a break, do a little bit of lesson planning, then we'd do a couple of videos. We'd find a pool and go swimming, then maybe, and then in, in the evening, sometimes we did a 5K.

• 1:07:11Rich Roll?

  Wow, that's a lot.

• 1:07:11Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, it's a lot, but you know what?

• 1:07:13Rich Roll?

  And was it, was it like, sorry I interrupted you.

• 1:07:15Mirna Valerio?

  No, go ahead.

• 1:07:15Rich Roll?

  But, you know, I'm trying to get at like, was, were you, were you kind of discovering, once again, like, oh, I like this, like, this is fun, not, not like, oh, this is what I have to do to not have a cardiac event.

• 1:07:26Mirna Valerio?

  No, it was definitely out of fun and out of, out of rediscovery of, like, I love being outside and I love working out. I've always loved it, since I was introduced to that back in high school. So, we're gonna do it, you know, times a million. And, and it was also having a tremendous positive effect on my health. And not just my physical health, but every type of health there is, like, spiritual, emotional, and mental. And I just felt so good. And I looked forward to every single workout. And then when we had recovery days, I was, I would get antsy because I just wanted to go back out, but I knew I needed to rest.

• 1:08:09Mirna Valerio?

  So it was this incredibly fun thing, and it was awesome that I had sort of a partner in crime to do it with me.

• 1:08:16Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's super important to not have to do that alone. And I think it's, it's really important to kind of dwell on this aspect of your story, because it's easy to go online and go, oh, my gosh, she did, you know, Javelina 100, and like, this attempt on Trans Rockies, and like, all this stuff, like, I can't do that. She, you know, whatever she looks like, she's still some kind of genetic freak, right? But you're, you know, starting from zero, just trying to do a mile, right? And then fast forward through just the diligence showing up on a day-to-day basis. I've worked your way, you know, over nine years to be able to do the things that you're able to do now.

• 1:08:50Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, and I, and I think that's what is surprising to people, that it took so long to get to where I am now. And I, I still have a long way to go, as far as my own goals. But, you know, see, if people look at me, they'll look at my Instagram, or they'll, or any of my social media accounts, and say, well, how did you do it? It's like, I've been doing this since 2008.

• 1:09:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:15Mirna Valerio?

  So there's nothing about this that is overnight. I've been working on my fitness for a really, really long time. And

• 1:09:25Mirna Valerio?

  So when I get a lot of messages of people asking me, so you know, how did you, how did you, um, how did you, how were you able to run a hundred K? It's like, first of all.

• 1:09:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah, like, how much room do I have in this little comment bubble? Like, I love when I get the messages like that, that are so broad, is like, well, I could, you know, it's like, this is why you write a book, because it takes a book in order to answer that singular question.

• 1:09:52Mirna Valerio?

  Because it's, it's, you know, a lot of years of putting in work, and as you said, showing up, simply showing up and doing the work, even when it's not fun. And there have been many, many times when it's not fun, it's not glamorous, you know, um, and I don't feel like doing it, but I do it anyway because it's my job, like, my body is my job. So, um, it's, it's a pleasurable job sometimes, but sometimes it's just, you know, going through the motions and making sure I get it done.

• 1:10:25Rich Roll?

  And it's not a, it's not a, a weight loss journey necessarily. I mean, you did lose, like, you went, if you were over 300, I mean, you got down to, I don't know.

• 1:10:34Mirna Valerio?

  I got down, my lowest weight was 239.

• 1:10:37Rich Roll?

  Okay.

• 1:10:38Mirna Valerio?

  Um, and, uh, and so, and that was, that was like, right after, uh, it was like, a year and a half after I was doing all of that intense exercise, I got down to, because...

• 1:10:50Rich Roll?

  Was there ever a sense, though, that you're like, I'm gonna get down to 160? Or was that never even part of it?

• 1:10:55Mirna Valerio?

  Every now and then.

• 1:10:56Rich Roll?

  Did you think, like, maybe that could happen?

• 1:10:57Mirna Valerio?

  Every now and then, I would say, you know, when I get to, when I get down to 180, I'm gonna buy myself an Audi. I don't have an Audi.

• 1:11:08Rich Roll?

  I like that it's so specific.

• 1:11:10Mirna Valerio?

  An Audi Q7. Um, and really, I like, I would sometimes have that goal, but I learned that my, my body was never going to get there unless I starved myself. Um, and so I was like, you know...

• 1:11:24Rich Roll?

  And you did that a couple of times, right? Like, you're able to get down low, but you know, this is just, this is, this is not my sort of default setting.

• 1:11:30Mirna Valerio?

  No, no. Like, 239 was even, um, I said, well, I mean, okay, well, but then it, uh, then it would go up to like, 245 or whatever. And that's kind of where I, I live, like, 245.

• 1:11:48Mirna Valerio?

  Now that I'm doing weightlifting, it's a little bit higher, but I know that's muscle. So, um, but yeah.

• 1:11:56Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:11:57Mirna Valerio?

  That's where my body lives.

• 1:11:58Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:12:05Rich Roll?

  Was there like a lightbulb moment where you're like, I really, I mean, when you're, when you're doing these 5Ks initially and you're sort of progressing and you're getting a little bit better and better and better. I mean, was it just an organic journey of like, okay, I'll do a 10K and it's just like one step up every time, one step up. So it wasn't like, I'm going to do this massive jump from, you know, half marathon to 50K. Like every, it seems like every step that you took was like, kind of just a methodically,

• 1:12:34Rich Roll?

  sort of methodically plotting this, this journey where the next goal was just the thing that was just a little bit out of reach in contrast to the previous one.

• 1:12:43Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, it was, it was a combination of that and, um, and of peer pressure.

• 1:12:50Rich Roll?

  Peer pressure works.

• 1:12:50Mirna Valerio?

  Good, like runners, peer pressure is not to be fooled with because, uh, you know, I'd have friends and, and people that you would see at the local races, because it's always the same people. Hey, you know, um, I think you would like this other race that, um, that my friend puts on. It's a 10K, um, but I think you'd really like it. And so, okay, I'll, I'll try it.

• 1:13:12Rich Roll?

  So are you somebody who just always has to be signed up for a race?

• 1:13:16Mirna Valerio?

  Um, yeah. Nowadays, I mean, I'll run anyway. I'll, you know, I'll go and work out anyway because, just because it's, it is a part of my lifestyle right now.

• 1:13:26Rich Roll?

  But it brings a certain focus to how you spend your time.

• 1:13:29Mirna Valerio?

  Absolutely. Um, like right now, right now, right this instant, I feel kind of lost because I'm not training for anything.

• 1:13:36Rich Roll?

  I know you gotta get on the ball, man. I don't know what you're doing right now.

• 1:13:39Mirna Valerio?

  Well, you know, I got three weeks until I start training for Boston, so.

• 1:13:43Rich Roll?

  So there's that.

• 1:13:44Mirna Valerio?

  But still, but I feel kind of like, I should be doing something.

• 1:13:48Rich Roll?

  But you need those gestation periods, kind of like after you left KPMG. Like you kind, you need that reboot period, I think. Otherwise it does become unsustainable.

• 1:13:57Mirna Valerio?

  Right. I mean, I feel that intellectually. I'm like, I really want, like, I really want to go out on a run, but I'm actually still recovering from my, the 60K that I did a couple of weekends ago. And, um.

• 1:14:08Rich Roll?

  A couple of weekends ago.

• 1:14:15Rich Roll?

  I'm starting to get it. I'm starting to get the picture here.

• 1:14:19Rich Roll?

  When did you, when did you start, when did you start the blog?

• 1:14:22Mirna Valerio?

  The blog I started in 2011 and, and it was just, I think my friends were annoyed that I was posting so much on Facebook about, you know, today I did a 5K and, or, or, you know, I'm training for my first marathon. And a friend of mine who is a sometimes blogger says, hey, why don't you just blog? And I didn't even know what a blog was. I mean, I had a vague idea of what it was, but I, but she said, look, listen, you know, we'll sit, I'll sit you down and, and, you know, take you through what it, you know, what it takes to be a blogger. And so, so she showed me how to blog and that was it.

• 1:15:03Mirna Valerio?

  And so I decided to sort of chronicle my, the training I was doing for my first marathon, which was the Marine Corps Marathon and another peer pressure induced.

• 1:15:16Rich Roll?

  Well, blogging is, you know, blogging is effective in putting pressure on yourself because as soon as you write about something that you're doing, yeah, it's out there.

• 1:15:23Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:24Rich Roll?

  But language is really important. So I'm curious in the kind of thought process that led to you naming it Fat Girl Running. You know, let's talk about that a little bit because I think this is like a, this is like a really important thing.

• 1:15:36Mirna Valerio?

  Well, you know what? 2011 was the year that I really like, sort of sat down with myself and said, well, I am not going to lose any more weight, any more weight. And I was okay with that.

• 1:15:48Rich Roll?

  Because?

• 1:15:49Mirna Valerio?

  I plateaued.

• 1:15:50Rich Roll?

  Right, okay.

• 1:15:51Mirna Valerio?

  I plateaued, but I wasn't gonna stop running because I loved it so much. And so I was, and I had this huge goal that I was going to do and I was gonna work towards that goal in my fat body. And so

• 1:16:06Rich Roll?

  And you had done, the previous to that, you'd done a half marathon?

• 1:16:09Mirna Valerio?

  I'd done a bunch of half marathons.

• 1:16:12Rich Roll?

  So it's funny because going from half to full, that's a huge leap compared to going from like a marathon to a 50K. It's a little bit more, you know what I mean? Like, but going from half to full, that's, that's a major step.

• 1:16:25Mirna Valerio?

  It is. And, but I was ready for the challenge. You know, it took me a couple of seconds to convince myself that I would actually be able to train for it and, and actually, and do it. But I was, I was mentally ready for that challenge. I wanted something bigger. I wanted, I wanted to be outside longer.

• 1:16:45Rich Roll?

  And where, where's your husband in all this?

• 1:16:47Mirna Valerio?

  And my husband is amused the whole time. He's like, "Oh, you're running again. Oh, okay. Well, how many miles are you doing today?" "20." "Oh, okay. That's not too much?" I'm like, "No." And, um, yeah, he was just amused at the whole thing. And I, actually at one point, his, uh, his brother, my brother-in-law, came running with, came out running with me. Um, I said, you know, we're gonna, um, do 10K, because that's, you know, how they measure things.

• 1:17:17Rich Roll?

  Everywhere in the world.

• 1:17:18Mirna Valerio?

  Everywhere in the world except here. And, um, and so, and I said, uh, "Yeah, I'm gonna go do 10K." And he said, "Oh, I'll come with you," you know, because I play soccer. I'm, I'm a good runner. I'm like, "Okay, cool." So he comes out and we, there's a mile loop around the school. And so he comes with me on the first loop and he says, "Oh, you know, come on, come on, mira, mira, let's go. Run faster." I'm like, "No, because I have, I have five more miles to go."

• 1:17:39Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:17:39Mirna Valerio?

  And after the, uh, after the first mile, he was like, "Oh, I'm finished."

• 1:17:46Mirna Valerio?

  "Okay, okay, okay, okay. But you know, you know, you don't need to, you know, no, you lost too much weight."

• 1:17:54Mirna Valerio?

  Very differing sort of aesthetics right there. But, uh, uh, so, yeah, so he's, you know, just amused by the whole thing. So very, very rarely he would come out and, and run with me. Uh, cause he's, he really loves soccer and basketball, though those are his sports. But he did notice that I, you know, that I had lost weight and, but there was never, I'd never had any, he's never commented on, you know, or being dissatisfied with my appearance because I wouldn't have married him. But, uh, yeah, you know, and he's, and it just became a part of my routine. I would go out running and then he'd, and then on the weekends I'd go do my long run and, and then I'd come back home and then he'd go do his thing.

• 1:18:37Mirna Valerio?

  And so it was, it was a nice little trade off that we would do.

• 1:18:40Rich Roll?

  And so back to the blog though. So you start blogging, fat girl running. Was there, like, let's get back to the naming of it. Like, was there, was there like consternation or a consideration of like, okay, I'm going to use this word. Like, you've made a very deliberate choice to own this word fat, right? In, in a, in a, in a climate of, of, you know, fat shaming and sort of PC terminology around certain phraseology. Rather than shy away from that, you're just kind of stepping into it and, and like identifying with it in a very personal way. So I'm curious about like, why you made that decision and what that means to you.

• 1:19:19Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, I, I wanted to write about being an endurance athlete in the body that I had. Without it being a weight loss thing, without it being centered that way. And I knew that the word would be a trigger word. I knew that, but that's how I identified. You know, since the third grade, I had always been a big girl. And I, unless somebody was being malicious or, or mean, that's, I knew I was a fat girl. And it didn't really bother me. I knew it would bother other people and I knew that it would be controversial.

• 1:20:01Mirna Valerio?

  And I even before I, before I named the blog officially, I sort of.

• 1:20:09Mirna Valerio?

  Asked a bunch of friends, I'm thinking of naming my blog Fat Girl Running. Oh, why would you do that? Why don't you say Fit Girl Running? Or why don't you say Fat to Fit? Or why don't you just name it something completely different? Like badass runner?

• 1:20:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, or Mirna Runs or something like that.

• 1:20:28Mirna Valerio?

  But that, you know, that, you know, that wouldn't have the cachet of something as striking as Fat Girl Running. And so I decided to stick with it, knowing that I was gonna get some, some, some flack from people. And, but I'm not a stranger to controversy or, you know, just doing whatever I want to do. So that's what I did. And, but that, but that's what eventually got me noticed.

• 1:20:58Rich Roll?

  Right. And we're working up our, we're working towards that? What, initially, was there some, like, did you get some weird comments from people saying, I can't believe you would name it this? Or?

• 1:21:08Mirna Valerio?

  Um, not necessarily from people outside my circle, because it was a very small circle to begin with. I, you know, I just shared it, I shared it on Facebook with my friends and family and, you know, with my little, I had a little fitness group on Facebook. And after they got over it, you know, they're like, yeah, oh, this is great. I love your stories. I love, you know, the one story about the potato chip, you know? And, and so it just became normalized. But I did, occasionally I would get, because I moderate every single comment, I would get things, I don't really understand why you called it Fat Girl Running. Like, that really makes me feel, it makes me feel ashamed. And it makes, you know, I think you're beautiful, not fat.

• 1:21:50Mirna Valerio?

  And so there's this, like, false dichotomy of, like, sort of beauty versus fat.

• 1:21:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's kind of what I'm interested in exploring with you, like, how you parse that. Because, like I said initially, like, words are important and the associations that we have culturally with this word sort of trigger people in a certain way.

• 1:22:09Mirna Valerio?

  But the cool thing about language is that language is organic and always changing. So I, I was very, I did that very deliberately.

• 1:22:21Rich Roll?

  You're reclaiming it and redefining it.

• 1:22:23Mirna Valerio?

  Yes. Um, and, and sort of really making an effort to reframe.

• 1:22:33Mirna Valerio?

  The word and all of its associations. I know that's probably never gonna happen, but I think we can try. And actually, the paradigm is shifting because there are a lot, there are actually, there's actually more than one blog named Fat Girl Running.

• 1:22:48Rich Roll?

  Oh, there is.

• 1:22:48Mirna Valerio?

  Someone has like an LLC business or whatever.

• 1:22:52Rich Roll?

  They took that URL?

• 1:22:53Mirna Valerio?

  You know, and but, you know, I've done my research. I think I was the first one anyway. But, uh, yeah.

• 1:23:00Rich Roll?

  You're the biggest one.

• 1:23:03Mirna Valerio?

  In more ways than one.

• 1:23:07Rich Roll?

  All right. You said that, not me.

• 1:23:12Mirna Valerio?

  And, um, but yeah, I, you know, I, I was very, very deliberate. And again, I knew people would have issues with it. Um, I actually did, um, I did a, an online conference and I forget what the title was. It's in my book.

• 1:23:31Mirna Valerio?

  The badass, the badass fat, fatle, fatle, or something like that, or, um, and, uh, the badass fat ass athlete, that's what it was. And, and some people had issues with that. You know, like when, when I hear the word fat, I am triggered. I am, I feel like I'm back at the dinner table with my dad saying things about what I'm eating. And I know that that is out there, but I think if we don't deal with that, um, if we don't bring those issues to the forefront, and, um, I think sometimes triggering those things is good because it forces a conversation.

• 1:24:10Rich Roll?

  Right. And, and by you owning it in that way, your idea is to somehow diffuse that?

• 1:24:16Mirna Valerio?

  Yes, hopefully.

• 1:24:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:18Mirna Valerio?

  And I think to a certain extent, it has diffused the power, the negative power of that word to some extent, like not very much, uh, because there is a lot of fat phobia, fat shaming. And I don't think that'll ever go away unless there's a huge paradigm shift in our society about a lot of things.

• 1:24:39Rich Roll?

  But meanwhile, there's a lot of people that are considering or even signing up for their first 5K or their first 10K who are overweight or perhaps even morbidly obese, who without a resource such as yourself, might not, you know, check that box and enter their credit card number. But because you're kind of transparently and very openly sharing your own journey, you know, in regards to this, it's empowering for those people to, you know, consider, you know, their own inner athlete, which is like a big, that's like kind of the core theme as I see it of everything that you do is like empowering everybody to believe that we can all be athletes, no matter where we're at on that spectrum.

• 1:25:22Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, and that's, that is what has been really, really incredible about all of this publicity and all of the media stuff that I've been doing is that every single, every single day I get messages about how people have decided to sign up for a 5K or I am going to, I've never done this before, but I'm going to actually run outside. And you know what? That is, that is revolutionary for a lot of people because you are, number one, you're showing your body outside, knowing that there might be some, your family might give you flack for it.

• 1:26:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there's, it's vulnerable.

• 1:26:03Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, yeah, you are absolutely open to the world and there's a lot of power in overcoming that, overcoming that fear of showing your body outside or like being awkward outside and being okay with being awkward outside. And so that is really cool and I, and I love to hear stories. Well, I signed up for, for my first half marathon because I saw your REI video or like I read a thing about you in runner's world or, or somehow I saw an Instagram post where you were preparing for this race and I said, well, she can do it. I can, I can probably do that too. Like, that's really cool and if that is the, the, the effect that my journey has had on people, then that's something that I definitely want to continue doing.

• 1:26:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's beautiful. I mean, it's the best thing in the world when you know that you've activated people in that way. I mean, it's completely transformative.

• 1:26:55Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, and it's just, it's really cool to be a part of whatever this movement is. It's, yeah, I'm like, I'm honored to be a part of it.

• 1:27:05Rich Roll?

  So you're blogging away, your friends, your Facebook friends are reading it or whatever. But at some point, there's like a tipping point, right? Like, how, and I guess that tipping point was when, was it when Runner's World decided to profile you?

• 1:27:18Mirna Valerio?

  Wall Street Journal.

• 1:27:19Rich Roll?

  Oh, Wall Street Journal, that was before, it was before Runner's World.

• 1:27:22Mirna Valerio?

  That was, that was the first, you know, hint of media interest.

• 1:27:27Rich Roll?

  And like, how much traffic were you getting before that?

• 1:27:29Mirna Valerio?

  You know, I don't know, because I wasn't keeping track of it.

• 1:27:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you're like, I'm teaching school.

• 1:27:35Mirna Valerio?

  I wasn't, I wasn't even writing in the blog very often, and I still don't. I don't, I don't write in it very often. When I had a story to tell, that's when I wrote in it. And, and I wasn't out to make money or, or anything, or get sponsored posts and stuff like that.

• 1:27:50Rich Roll?

  I'm gonna get REI to sponsor me.

• 1:27:54Mirna Valerio?

  Or NARAL, or, you know.

• 1:27:57Rich Roll?

  It's so crazy, you know? It's just, I think just like, stepping back and like, looking at it from, you know, 10,000 feet. It's like, you can't, you couldn't have orchestrated this by design.

• 1:28:10Mirna Valerio?

  Not at all.

• 1:28:12Rich Roll?

  You know, this is like, just a beautiful outgrowth of you expressing yourself in a very true and authentic way, in a vulnerable way, that's connected with so many people.

• 1:28:22Mirna Valerio?

  And, you know, and the other cool thing about it is that I don't really have to do, I'm not doing anything differently.

• 1:28:30Rich Roll?

  Than you would be doing ordinarily.

• 1:28:31Mirna Valerio?

  Than I would be doing anyway. So like, so that's cool, because, you know, I know that a lot of people who, you know, who are, who have Instagram fame, or, you know, you know, there's a, there's a level of plasticity, I think, that I am glad that I don't have to do. I don't have to do anything outside of my norm.

• 1:28:54Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, because you're not, you're not trying to craft an image. You're just, this is my life.

• 1:29:00Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:00Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 1:29:01Mirna Valerio?

  With a couple of Instagram filters.

• 1:29:03Rich Roll?

  Here and there, but like, you never miss an opportunity to do the running selfie, right? Like, no matter what, if you're running, like, you're, yeah, like, you're, there's, there's gonna be a selfie happening.

• 1:29:13Mirna Valerio?

  Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. It gets annoying for other people, like, oh, another selfie, but, but yeah, that's, you know, here's what I'm doing, you know? And my, my hope is that...

• 1:29:25Mirna Valerio?

  If you see me doing this, maybe you can picture yourself doing something that you want to do. It doesn't have to be running, but it could be whatever it is.

• 1:29:33Rich Roll?

  It's just a little mental jab, like, hey, you know, I'm just telling, I'm reminding you, like, hey, I'm out here again today, you know, and it makes people think, like, oh, what did I do today? I shouldn't have taken that day off. Mirna's out there. And the Wall Street Journal is writing articles about her. So how did that happen?

• 1:29:53Mirna Valerio?

  Okay, well, you know, I was sitting at a conference, I go to a lot of conferences, and my phone buzzed, and there was an email from somebody at Wall Street Journal, and I immediately thought to myself, well, you know, why, I don't get the Wall Street Journal, so why are they writing me? So like, put my phone down, looked at it again, and I said, oh, shit, this woman wants to interview me about my blog. It was Rachel Bachman from the Wall Street Journal, and I stepped out of the room, because we weren't supposed to have our cellphones on, we're talking about like, gender and sexuality. We're supposed to be present, but I wasn't very present.

• 1:30:35Rich Roll?

  You're like, I gotta take a break.

• 1:30:37Mirna Valerio?

  Excuse me. So I go out and I get back to her immediately, and so we have an interview the following day. And a rather long phone interview, and I'm like, what is happening? What? And she's like, I really, I'm doing research on, you know, whether or not it's worth going to the gym or working out if you're not losing any weight. And I'm like, absolutely. You know, so I tell her my story, and so a couple of days later, the article appears in the paper, and that sort of sets the ball rolling. And I had no idea, but I'm like, oh, that's really cool that, you know, that I'm in Wall Street Journal. That's really, really cool.

• 1:31:22Mirna Valerio?

  And but and then my my the head of my school started getting messages from alums. Hey, did you know one of your teachers is in the Wall Street Journal? And so it just started like kind of getting bigger and bigger and really snowballing until a couple of weeks later, I get an email from John Brent at Runners World. Hey, love the feature in Wall Street Journal and love your blog. Would you be amenable to being featured in Runners World? What?

• 1:31:57Mirna Valerio?

  Me? Like, I'm thinking in the back of my head, does he know I'm fat? Because because I've never seen a fat person in Runners World. And so I'm like, um, yes, I'd love to. And then, you know, and then he comes a couple of weeks later. He comes down to Georgia, spends a couple of days with me and he runs with me a couple of times, interviews me at length, interviews some of my students and he did sit in on some of my classes. And I was just, you know, I was in a dream state and I'm like, this is so cool. Oh, my gosh. And I'm still not believing at this point that anything that the article isn't even going to happen. I'm like, he's gonna, he's gonna say that I'm fat and he's gonna say, this is not what

• 1:32:42Mirna Valerio?

  I want to represent. But no.

• 1:32:44Rich Roll?

  Right, because before he flew down to Georgia, he had a different mental idea of who you were, the person behind Fat Girl Running.

• 1:32:50Mirna Valerio?

  Right.

• 1:32:53Mirna Valerio?

  This is just what I was thinking at the time. And yeah, and so that was really cool and surreal. And then a couple of weeks later, I get a call from the creative director. Hey, we're going to send a photographer down to you. And she, Brian Melts, who's an amazing photographer, came down and spent 12 hours with me. He came running with us at like 5:30 in the morning and in the rain. And she said, I wasn't prepared for this. But that was really cool because I got all my friends and some of my students to come to the photo shoot and um and then that and then the article came out a couple of weeks later and that was talk about the tipping point.

• 1:33:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that really changed things because it's not just an article. It's not like, oh, we wrote an article about Mirna like that. It's like a Rolling Stone cover profile type article like.

• 1:33:45Mirna Valerio?

  It was 12 pages.

• 1:33:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's like a it's for real, you know? And I think what's interesting about it beyond just, you know, your amazing personal story is that it addresses this subject that that that comes up in the Wall Street Journal piece as well, which is, you know, can you be overweight and fit? What is the relationship between, you know, disease, fitness, diet, nutrition? And there's kind of a cultural debate and a scientific debate around this like you you can't be considered healthy if you're overweight or you're obese. Is that true? Is that not true? And you're kind of like this interesting case study that's swimming around in the Petri dish at the center of this debate.

• 1:34:26Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, it gets really interesting to be to still be in this position because I people really are confused and and there's a lot of cognitive dissonance around the fact that I I am exercising all the time, but I don't really lose any weight.

• 1:34:48Rich Roll?

  It's confusing for people.

• 1:34:50Mirna Valerio?

  It is very confusing and it is.

• 1:34:52Rich Roll?

  You must be doing something wrong.

• 1:34:55Mirna Valerio?

  I must be.

• 1:34:56Rich Roll?

  You're secretly.

• 1:34:57Mirna Valerio?

  Sitting on the couch.

• 1:34:58Rich Roll?

  Face planning into Haagen Dazs every night. You're not telling us what you're really doing.

• 1:35:01Mirna Valerio?

  Right.

• 1:35:02Rich Roll?

  Or you're not really running that much.

• 1:35:03Mirna Valerio?

  Right, yeah, and it's even recently, you know, on the actually when Ari I posted the video on the on the Facebook, which is that's the point when it like kind of went viral, most of the commentary was extraordinarily positive, but they but there were a couple of people, well, she must not really be doing what she says she's doing. And didn't you notice that she said she eats salami sandwich while she's running her 50K? Well, you know, she shouldn't be eating salami. So there, you know.

• 1:35:32Rich Roll?

  It's because it's very it's it's it pushes a lot of buttons.

• 1:35:35Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, it really does.

• 1:35:36Rich Roll?

  It's threatening to people because if somebody is. overweight and has a weight loss dream or wherever they're at in their life like your example is is is sort of pushing those buttons.

• 1:35:47Mirna Valerio?

  It really does.

• 1:35:48Rich Roll?

  They're telling you who they are and what their problem is. The irony in all of that, of course, is that half the video is about is about like, I want to talk about that email that you got. It's like about this troll hater, right? So it's all about it's hilarious that in the comments to that video that you would get sort of trolling type comments.

• 1:36:05Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:06Rich Roll?

  I mean, that troll is famous. He went viral.

• 1:36:09Mirna Valerio?

  Yes, he did.

• 1:36:10Rich Roll?

  Does he? Is he aware?

• 1:36:12Mirna Valerio?

  I don't even know. I don't care.

• 1:36:14Rich Roll?

  I would like to know if he knows that his email became so famous.

• 1:36:18Mirna Valerio?

  Well, you know what?

• 1:36:19Rich Roll?

  We should probably explain.

• 1:36:21Mirna Valerio?

  Do you want to talk about that now?

• 1:36:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, we should. I was going to talk about this later, but since we're knee deep in it, we should probably contextualize this.

• 1:36:27Mirna Valerio?

  Okay, so yeah, so there was this REI video that that I was in.

• 1:36:32Rich Roll?

  The Myrnivator.

• 1:36:33Mirna Valerio?

  And it's, yes, the Myrnivator, who, interestingly enough, the the woman who who encouraged me to start a blog, she gave me that name, the Myrnivator.

• 1:36:45Rich Roll?

  Oh, she did.

• 1:36:46Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, so thank you, Leslie.

• 1:36:47Rich Roll?

  That would have been a good blog name, too. But that's your Twitter handle.

• 1:36:50Mirna Valerio?

  And I trademarked it, so.

• 1:36:52Rich Roll?

  Good for you.

• 1:36:55Mirna Valerio?

  But so there was this video that I had the honor of, I had the honor of being profiled in a short documentary via REI. And and during the filming of my, one of my 50K, so it was my first 50K of the season, actually, this past May. And I wanted to just get it done and I knew the filmmaker, Sarah Menzies, was was going to be down with me and shooting me and interviewing me.

• 1:37:33Mirna Valerio?

  So she happened to be there when, on my last loop, it was a loop course, my last loop, I was probably at mile. Twenty-nine, twenty-eight and a half, twenty-nine, um, when uh my phone buzzed and I got um a notification and it was an email and the subject was running. So I'm thinking, oh, it's probably, it it might be one of my fans. Um, I don't know why they're writing my school email, but sometimes people dig and they they find my school email. Uh, cause everybody knows where I work now, you know? And um, so I was like, okay, well, I'll just open it, you know?

• 1:38:11Mirna Valerio?

  And uh, mistake number, I should not have been on my, I know, I know, I have a slight addiction to my phone. Um, but, um, so I opened it and uh, and so the email said all these horrible things. Um, and uh, the, the um, person who sent me the email, a man, uh, uh, accused me of being a fraud, um, accused me of not doing what I say I do, um, which is running. Um, he said that he could walk, walk faster than my run, which is probably true and I don't really care.

• 1:38:51Mirna Valerio?

  Um, and for a professional runner, you're overweight, first of all, a professional. I don't know where he got that idea, but uh, he just said all these like awful, awful things. I have sponsors.

• 1:39:05Rich Roll?

  I guess that, what is the definition of professional? I think you are a professional runner.

• 1:39:09Mirna Valerio?

  You get like paid to do it. I'm getting paid. I get free clothes. Um, and I have, you know, the backing of these amazing uh, companies, but um, I think it's a very different thing than like elite uh, athletes. I mean, our podium, the DFL podium, the did finish last podium. And um, but uh, yeah, and so like I get this while I am.

• 1:39:35Mirna Valerio?

  At mile 29 of a 50K race, actually it was a 12 hour race, it wasn't actually a 50K race, but it was a 50K for me. And it's completely ironic.

• 1:39:49Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:39:49Mirna Valerio?

  You know, here you are accusing me of being a fraud while I'm doing a thing that you said I don't do. And it did really stunned me. It was definitely emotionally painful to read that in that moment. I'm tired. I am, my back hurts. My, I just want to be done. But the amazing thing was that my friends were with me. They decided to run the last loop with me, or walk, we were walking at that point. And, you know, they read, I let them read it. And, you know, they were, they were good friends. They said, Oh, my God, I don't believe this jerk.

• 1:40:27Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, you're, you're soft pedaling it a little bit because he, you know, there was a couple of fucks in there.

• 1:40:32Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, yes.

• 1:40:32Rich Roll?

  It was nasty.

• 1:40:33Mirna Valerio?

  Right. It was, it was very nasty. And, you know, just it, the, it was very clear that the intention was to hurt me and to belittle me and to fat shame me and to dehumanize me. And, yeah, and so, but my friends were there. And I said, you know, fuck that guy.

• 1:40:52Rich Roll?

  But like, also, you know, mile 29 in a 50K, like, that's, that's like, right around when you're most vulnerable and most susceptible to like, that negative, you know, the negative thought patterns that could just say, you know, I'm done.

• 1:41:05Mirna Valerio?

  You know what? But again, my friend said, put the phone away. I said, well, not before I post this on Instagram, because this is, this is really messed up, you know? And, but I, so I did a screen grab of the email and I posted on Instagram. And then I put my phone away. Meanwhile, the Sarah Menzies, the filmmaker, you know, she's at the end, at the finish line, waiting for me to come in. And, you know, so she's on her phone. And so she sees the email, she sees my Instagram post. And so, so we just, you know, it happened to happen while she was there.

• 1:41:46Rich Roll?

  It's like filmmaking gold.

• 1:41:47Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:48Rich Roll?

  Like, here's, here's the story. I can build this story around this.

• 1:41:51Mirna Valerio?

  And, you know, and then with, you know, within a matter of minutes, I had almost 100 comments on that post, because my phone kept buzzing.

• 1:42:03Rich Roll?

  You've got to turn your notifications off.

• 1:42:05Mirna Valerio?

  I know, I know. Well, I don't have them on anymore. But yeah, and so I was looking and I eventually put the phone away because I just wanted to finish. And I did want to be present with my friends and the dog that was here. And so we finished and Sarah was waiting at the end, congratulated me and just filmed me coming in and did a little interview and she said, "I'm so sorry about that email. That was really messed up." By the way, if you want to talk about it. It doesn't have to be now, but if you want to, you don't have to because I could understand that. That is, it's traumatizing. And so we didn't talk about it then after the race, but when she came back to spend a week with me,

• 1:42:50Mirna Valerio?

  with Jenny Nichols, the other filmmaker on the project, she, we carved out some time to talk about that. And REI loved what she cut. She sent them like a 40-minute cut and it really, she didn't want to focus on that. It was a part of the story, you know, it was a part of kind of like what I experienced as a larger runner.

• 1:43:15Mirna Valerio?

  But they really wanted to focus on that. At first she said, "This really wasn't my artistic vision. I really wanted to showcase this badass female in the outdoors."

• 1:43:27Mirna Valerio?

  And, but, you know, they wanted that troll piece. And I got to see it before they released it and I thought it was great because the bigger message was that, that this sport is really inclusive or can be inclusive. And just fitness in general should be inclusive.

• 1:43:54Mirna Valerio?

  And so I really enjoyed that, that they chose to frame it. Well, she had to frame it in that way and she did it really artistically and beautifully.

• 1:44:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, it adds a level of poignancy to the story and to your story. And to, you know, I think something that someone in your shoes has to deal with, that probably a lot of other people have to deal with as well, right? So I think it was a beautiful, creative decision that I think made the video.

• 1:44:25Rich Roll?

  You know, really meaningful. So that's, that's like one piece to what you just said. The other piece is the inclusiveness of, of the running community. I mean, the ultra community is like amazing that way.

• 1:44:36Mirna Valerio?

  Yes.

• 1:44:36Rich Roll?

  It's like a beautiful, you know, traveling circus of amazing, open-hearted individuals that, you know, would never perpetrate and act like that, you know? And so when you're on the receiving end of that, I mean, to get it in the middle of a race, I mean, it's like, I can't imagine when all you need is like that positive encouragement. It's devastating. And even outside of that context, if you were just at work and you came across that, I mean, what an awful thing for a human being to say. It's like, I can't imagine, like, I don't understand people that write negative reviews. Like, I would never, like, I just don't. It's like not in me to be that person. So it really speaks to, you know, where that person is at in their life and how unhappy they are,

• 1:45:17Rich Roll?

  that they feel they have to lash out at another human being. Unfortunately, we're in a, a climate right now where there's a lot of that going on.

• 1:45:24Mirna Valerio?

  That's the norm. It's the norm.

• 1:45:25Rich Roll?

  Well, not only is it the norm, it's like accelerating at a crazy rate to just see kind of the cesspool that, that social media can, can be with regard to that kind of behavior. I mean, is that, is receiving stuff like that atypical? I mean, does it happen regularly with you or?

• 1:45:44Mirna Valerio?

  Um, I, I definitely, um, I had never gotten anything sent to me individually like that.

• 1:45:50Rich Roll?

  I mean, this guy had to go out of his way to find your email. He was on a mission.

• 1:45:54Mirna Valerio?

  My work email.

• 1:45:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah. He just, he felt very strongly that you needed to hear what you had to say about this.

• 1:45:59Mirna Valerio?

  And boy, did we hear it in the entire world.

• 1:46:01Rich Roll?

  And now the whole world knows.

• 1:46:03Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah. Um, but I, I've definitely been the subject of many Reddit thread. Um, I don't even, I do not ever go into Reddit, ever, even if it's positive.

• 1:46:20Mirna Valerio?

  Um, or, uh,

• 1:46:22Rich Roll?

  Anywhere where people can post anonymously.

• 1:46:24Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, and so, um, like, there was a lot of negative commentary on the, um, runner's world post, um, and a lot of it was, um, or not just on the runner's world, but, um, even on the Wall Street Journal, um, article and other things, and when the NBC thing came out, um, again, most, mostly, most of the commentary was really positive and like, oh, that's so cool, I'm so happy for you, go ahead, girl, you know, that kind of thing. But then there would be people that would say, um, you know, where is she running to? A Dunkin' Donuts, um, or Krispy Kreme, is she running to McDonald's? Um, you know, look, she's out of breath, um, because I'm a male, 15, or whatever, um, or, um, well, she's glorifying obesity.

• 1:47:09Rich Roll?

  Right, if there is an intellectual argument to be had around this, it would be that on some, on some level, there's a perpetration of this idea that people can feel okay about being unhealthy.

• 1:47:25Mirna Valerio?

  Right.

• 1:47:25Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 1:47:26Mirna Valerio?

  But what is unhealthy? That is the question, like, and there's so many differing perspectives, yes. So, um,

• 1:47:32Rich Roll?

  If you know for yourself, like, you've done all these diets, you've been, you've run all these crazy races, like, you know your body well enough to know what your set point is, and that going below that creates health problems for you, as opposed to positive, you know, beneficial

• 1:47:45Mirna Valerio?

  Right.

• 1:47:46Rich Roll?

  Things, then that's your truth.

• 1:47:48Mirna Valerio?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, that is my truth, and, um, you know, I always go back to sort of my metabolic profile and, um, the fact that I have amazing doctors, and I've always, not always, but I've definitely had, um, you know, a medical team that knows what I do, um, that, um, that thinks it's great, um, and, you know, they look at all of my numbers, your numbers are great, um, you know, when is your next race? Um, I did, last year, I had to go to a cardiologist because, um, I was suffering from anxiety.

• 1:48:28Mirna Valerio?

  Um, I didn't realize it was anxiety, um, but I was having heart palpitations.

• 1:48:34Rich Roll?

  Why were you anxious?

• 1:48:35Mirna Valerio?

  I was writing my book.

• 1:48:36Rich Roll?

  Uh, okay, I know what that's like.

• 1:48:39Mirna Valerio?

  And I was nearing, I was getting closer and closer to the deadline, and not, you know, I'd had enough words and everything, but I was so Anxious about it, that anxiety manifested itself as heart palpitations. And I went to the doctor and wore a heart monitor for two weeks. And the cardiologist said, there's nothing wrong with you. You're having anxiety. What is going on in your life? And I told him, he's like, oh, okay. As soon as I submitted the manuscript, the palpitations went away. But I'm always very forthcoming. I'm not afraid to make requests or to ask questions.

• 1:49:22Mirna Valerio?

  I feel very entitled when I go into a doctor's office. And I know that's not the experience that a lot of people have. I have a list of questions. I question their whatever.

• 1:49:32Rich Roll?

  You're a Gretchen Rubin questioner.

• 1:49:34Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah. So why do you think I?

• 1:49:37Rich Roll?

  How many cardiologists do you go to, by the way, before you settle on the one?

• 1:49:42Mirna Valerio?

  You know, and so, yeah. But yeah, I know when my body feels good and I know when it doesn't feel right. And part of that is from doing all of the physical activities that I do. Like you begin to have a really, really intimate relationship with your body. And so you know when something's wrong. But otherwise, my medical team is very happy with me and they support me in whatever I do. I go into the doctor and I hear the nurse practitioner saying, you know, Mirna is an ultra runner and her right glute is hurting right now.

• 1:50:22Mirna Valerio?

  So we're going to take care of that and see what's at the root of that pain. And yeah, so like, and I hear them talking. And so like, that frames the entire doctor's visit. I don't get, well, and they look at me and immediately, because this happens to a lot of people, well, you know, clearly you need to lose some weight or you need to, have you started, have you ever considered exercise? I did have a doctor. But right after I came, I'd done two marathons in one October, Steam Town and Marine Corps. And then I went to a gynecologist and she said, well, have you considered physical fitness? I was like, I just told you, I finished two marathons this month. Like I don't, clearly not my doctor anymore. But yeah, so.

• 1:51:08Mirna Valerio?

  There are a couple of goals that I do have for myself physically, but you know, I'll get there when I get there. I'm continuing to work on those things.

• 1:51:17Rich Roll?

  I think on that argument of helping people to feel more comfortable about their lack of health, you know, in your case, I see somebody who's inspiring people to get out of their comfort zone. You're setting this example for other people who perhaps can relate to your body image because they're walking around in a similar state and seeing what you're able to do is inspiring them to rethink their own paradigm.

• 1:51:46Mirna Valerio?

  Right. And getting, sort of, becoming physically active is definitely a part of that. Now, running might, will probably not make you skinny, unless you are genetically predetermined to that, but it will definitely change things on the inside. It will change your body. You will look different. I look very different than I did, you know, even at the same weight a couple of years ago. But, yeah, but you have to just sort of get past that aesthetic and work on the inside.

• 1:52:25Rich Roll?

  Yeah, we associate self-image with physical image, right? So when you think about self-image, how do you define self-image for yourself or a healthy self-image?

• 1:52:35Mirna Valerio?

  I think having a healthy self-image, well, it requires you to appreciate and love yourself, and I know that's really hard, especially for people who don't get that from the outside, or get that externally from family members and friends and society, and who have not been in the practice of self-love. I'm fortunate in that I always had a healthy body image. In my sort of family culture, nobody ever said, "Hey, you're too fat. Don't eat that."

• 1:53:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you don't strike me as somebody who walked around staring at your toes.

• 1:53:13Mirna Valerio?

  No.

• 1:53:13Rich Roll?

  Ever.

• 1:53:15Mirna Valerio?

  Now, and people in my family don't either. And so I was very, very fortunate because I know that is not the reality for many, many people. But, and I think it takes practice when, in terms of loving yourself and having a healthy self-image, you have to actually speak those words to yourself. And people feel kind of weird doing that, you know, like looking in a mirror. Like if that's some, if that's a way that, that, that will happen for you, I think. Or, or just kind of reflecting, being reflective of, you know, what, what did your body do that like made you feel like a badass?

• 1:53:54Mirna Valerio?

  You know, I, I, there's so many things that are, that are involved with, with having a healthy, positive self-image. And I think for me, it is that practice because if you don't get it from the outside, you have to, you have to create that yourself. And that takes a lot of really deep self-reflection.

• 1:54:16Rich Roll?

  Right. You, you just, you had it from the get-go and your, your family environment supported you in that regard. But, you know, the development of self-esteem, if you're coming from a place of low self-esteem is, you know, that's, that's, that's a 50K for somebody. That's climbing Count, you know, Mount Kilimanjaro. I mean, it's very difficult. And what, kind of what I always say is the first, the first step for me as somebody who came from a place of low self-esteem and kind of what I say to other people is self-esteem comes through the performance of esteemable acts. Esteemable acts on behalf of yourself and behalf of others, right?

• 1:54:53Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, absolutely. And I think that when you engage in, you know, from a physical standpoint, because that is deeply connected to the mental and emotional standpoint. When you engage in a physical activity and you notice yourself, you, you feel yourself getting stronger, or you're able to last longer, or you are noticing changes in your body.

• 1:55:19Mirna Valerio?

  That definitely sends messages to your brain. Hey, wow, wow, I feel great. And that changes your perspective a little bit in terms of body image. Like, you know, there's a lot of research on the effect of participating in sports for adolescent girls and how, how if they continue in sports throughout their high school years, they're more likely to have a healthier body image, self-image than kids who don't participate in sports. Because it is a very visceral way of noticing positive changes in your body.

• 1:55:58Rich Roll?

  I think also, my sense, or correct me if, if I'm wrong, or I'm interested in what you think about this. My sense is that people that strike a pose that society does not necessarily approve of, or, or applaud, are people that then are less likely to invest in themselves in that, in that way, in a physical way, right? They tend to be more oriented around helping other people and less diligent about their own self-care. So it becomes a vicious cycle, like a self-perpetuating problem. Do you think that's true, or no?

• 1:56:38Mirna Valerio?

  Can you explain that again?

• 1:56:40Rich Roll?

  So, I mean, like, listen, if you're, if, let's say you're morbidly obese, right? And so, people perceive you in a certain way. This is the path that you're walking. So, you reach this point of like, well, taking care of myself doesn't really matter. Like, I'll, I can help other people, or exert my energy in the care of others, but I'm not going to really take care of myself, because that's already, like, not in a good place.

• 1:57:06Rich Roll?

  Is that wrong?

• 1:57:07Mirna Valerio?

  You know, I don't, I don't know.

• 1:57:10Mirna Valerio?

  And I, because I think that, you know, specifically people.

• 1:57:14Rich Roll?

  I mean, the more you take care of yourself, the more you want to take care of yourself. That's true, I believe.

• 1:57:22Mirna Valerio?

  That's a really, that's a really hard question.

• 1:57:26Mirna Valerio?

  Because I mean, I don't know what's in the mind of somebody who's more really obese. Because I think that you would have to consider how they got there. And what their sort of frame of mind is, what their emotional state is.

• 1:57:42Mirna Valerio?

  Have they given up, or are they looking for help? I don't, I don't know.

• 1:57:46Rich Roll?

  Those are all very good points.

• 1:57:49Mirna Valerio?

  Or have people written them off? And so, so yeah, I don't, I don't really have an answer for that. But I do think that people who are used to engaging in self-care know the value of it. But if you've never been sort of exposed to the the ritual of self-care, if you've never seen it, like in your own parents or in your own mom, because it's usually women that are the victims of the lack of self-care.

• 1:58:29Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, I think that if that's not something that is a norm in your life, you don't know that it's a possibility.

• 1:58:39Mirna Valerio?

  Or you don't know how to do it.

• 1:58:43Rich Roll?

  And I think from, from a perspective of women, I mean, women are the nurturers. They're the ones who are taking care of everyone else.

• 1:58:50Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, and then when you, when you don't do that.

• 1:58:52Rich Roll?

  And you run out of time to take care of yourself.

• 1:58:54Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:55Rich Roll?

  Or putting yourself behind everyone else and not, and feeling indulgent if you actually, you know, need to attend to your own self-care.

• 1:59:03Mirna Valerio?

  Right.

• 1:59:04Rich Roll?

  Whereas, the truth is that if you can tend to yourself and take care of yourself, that you can become a better nurturer and more of service.

• 1:59:14Mirna Valerio?

  Right, and if that's what, if that's what you want and/or need to do. But that's not the message we get from society.

• 1:59:24Mirna Valerio?

  And so it's hard to counteract that. It's hard to, uh, to engage in self-care, um, when people do call you selfish. Um, or, uh, I, I actually had a cousin say to me once, um, it was Thanksgiving and I was going to go do my turkey trot. I don't understand why you need to do this today.

• 1:59:46Rich Roll?

  Cause this is about family and you need to be here.

• 1:59:48Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah. And, um, but I had stayed up the night before, cooking all night. And I would, when I got back, I would be cooking all day. And, uh, and so I just ignored him, um, and, uh, did my, my, uh, 10K.

• 2:00:07Mirna Valerio?

  Uh, finish last.

• 2:00:09Mirna Valerio?

  And then came back home and started cooking.

• 2:00:11Rich Roll?

  What did you call it again? D, DFL?

• 2:00:12Mirna Valerio?

  DFL.

• 2:00:13Rich Roll?

  Did finish last.

• 2:00:15Mirna Valerio?

  Did finish last.

• 2:00:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:16Mirna Valerio?

  Um, or there's another way to say it, but I won't say that.

• 2:00:19Rich Roll?

  You can say it.

• 2:00:20Mirna Valerio?

  Dead fucking last.

• 2:00:22Rich Roll?

  I like that one better.

• 2:00:24Mirna Valerio?

  That's more my style, anyway. Um, yeah, so there's, you know, there's pressure from families, uh, from spouses, uh, from, just from society in general. Um, you know, a woman's place is in the home. A woman's place is in the kitchen. A woman should be taking care of her kids. Um, I had one of my husband's friends said to me once, um, uh, it's, it's a good thing you're a teacher, so you have the summers to, to focus on the family. And it just did not sit with me very well, cause.

• 2:00:57Rich Roll?

  Right, behind that is, like, he's trying to rationalize, like, why you work at all.

• 2:01:01Mirna Valerio?

  Why I work, exactly. And, uh,

• 2:01:06Mirna Valerio?

  yeah, so, and I, I've never been that, that's never been my thing. I, you know, always have to work, cause I'll go crazy. And, um, but yeah, and so, and it's really hard to refute that and to, to live in that space as a woman and, uh, and not be affected by the messages you, you are getting. Uh, the implicit and explicit messages on what you should be doing.

• 2:01:29Rich Roll?

  So what is the message that you want women to hear from you?

• 2:01:33Mirna Valerio?

  Um, you can still be a good mom. If you take care of yourself. In fact, um, in my own personal experience, uh, the more I took care of myself, the healthier my family was, um, the better sleep everyone got, um, and the better our family is in general. Um, because if mommy's sick, everybody's sick. Uh, if mommy's tired, everybody's tired. Um, and so, yeah. And, and, and it's not just if, if you're a parent, you don't have to be a parent, uh, to, to heed this message. Um, it's a lot of women do end up in, in caregiving roles,

• 2:02:16Mirna Valerio?

  uh, or caretaking roles, um, you know, whether or not they have children. And so, um, you know, at work, there are lots of women who, oh, oh, can you go get the coffee? Or can you organize this party for so and so? Can you organize a baby shower? Um, and, uh, you can say no, cause if that's not your job, it's not your job. Um, but that's a whole other podcast.

• 2:02:43Rich Roll?

  It isn't, it isn't. I mean, it's kind of what we're talking about, you know? I mean, it's redefining stereotypes, uh, and, and reframing what it means to be a strong, powerful, healthy woman. And there's, and the boundaries that, that, that you have to create.

• 2:03:00Mirna Valerio?

  And, and, and pushing against those boundaries creates problems. Um, but I think, uh, we have to know ourselves better and to know that, um, those problems, uh, that are created when you push against those boundaries and you say, you know what, I am not going to be the minivan driver or I'm not going to go get your coffee. That creates an opportunity for growth, um, for a dialogue around that issue and, um, and for sort of, um, giving different roles to different people.

• 2:03:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think it, it goes back to that self-esteem piece, right? You have to have a certain level of self-esteem to create that healthy boundary and have the courage to articulate it in a way, knowing that there might be a repercussion.

• 2:03:49Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, knowing that there will most definitely be a repercussion. Um, and being prepared for that.

• 2:03:58Rich Roll?

  What do you think people most misunderstand about what you're about and what you're trying to speak to?

• 2:04:08Mirna Valerio?

  That's a really good question.

• 2:04:10Rich Roll?

  I mean, we know the troll stuff.

• 2:04:12Mirna Valerio?

  Right.

• 2:04:12Rich Roll?

  We talked about that.

• 2:04:18Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, probably one of the most common comments that I get is, or that I hear about or that I read about when I'm, you know, being spoken about in third person.

• 2:04:28Rich Roll?

  When you get those notifications.

• 2:04:29Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:30Rich Roll?

  You should really turn off.

• 2:04:31Mirna Valerio?

  Or like, "Don't tag me in things. I don't want to, I don't want to read that."

• 2:04:36Mirna Valerio?

  Is that the thing that people misunderstand is they really do think I am, there are two things, that I, I'm really trying to glorify obesity, and there are so many issues with that word anyway, that I'm, because that word dehumanizes fat people, and it makes it a very clinical thing, when there's a lot of shame in that, and in the medical arena, when it comes to fat people, and so there's that, that I'm glorifying obesity, just by being, just by being, like, being alive.

• 2:05:17Mirna Valerio?

  Because people would rather not see me, and then, yeah.

• 2:05:20Rich Roll?

  That's gotta be painful.

• 2:05:22Mirna Valerio?

  It is, it's painful, but I know it's there. I know it's there, and I'm still gonna keep doing what I'm doing, because as, as you and I talked about, like, it has definitely hit a nerve with people in a positive way, that they are now, they now feel entitled to go outside, or to start a new physical fitness routine, or to join a gym, or to do whatever it is that they feel like they need to do to improve what they need to improve about their bodies, or what they want to improve about their bodies, or change. And so that's that, and then the second thing is that people really do think that I'm sitting on a couch, and eating a bag of potato chips.

• 2:06:07Rich Roll?

  You're just faking the whole thing.

• 2:06:08Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, you know, and I'm not gonna lie, I love potato chips.

• 2:06:13Mirna Valerio?

  Jalapeno kettle chips. But, you know, I'm not doing that. And so like, you know, and I do know that people see me as an anomaly and, and like, you know, they can't wrap their minds around that. But those are the two big things. I'm glorifying obesity and that I cannot, in reality, be doing all the things that I say that I, that I do.

• 2:06:32Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, when you're, when you're in the business of, of trying to reframe these paradigms, it's so contrary to people's worldviews that they have to dismiss it somehow, right? So, oh, she must not be doing this. It's the same thing with me being vegan, like, oh, he's not really vegan. When no one's looking, he's eating this or like, because, because

• 2:06:50Mirna Valerio?

  You got a steak in your back pocket.

• 2:06:51Rich Roll?

  Like, if what I'm doing doesn't fit their worldview, there has to be a way to dismiss it somehow. And that comes in the form of some offhanded, you know, remark that makes them feel better, but ultimately isn't rooted in any fact.

• 2:07:05Mirna Valerio?

  Right. Yeah. And I would love to see people actually backing up their statements. Oh, so how am I glorifying obesity? Like, what, what is, what does it actually mean to glorify obesity? Like, what does that mean? Do you even know what you're saying? Or I get a lot of, "You are going to ruin your knees." So that's what, that's like, that's a really, really good example of, you know, people just saying things because that's what they've always heard.

• 2:07:32Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:07:33Mirna Valerio?

  That is what their norm is, even though it is not rooted in any truth or in any facts. And, okay, so tell me about, tell me about how running ruins my knees. Tell me about that. And I'm not afraid to have that conversation. You know, that's kind of what I do in my job. You know, I, I deal with cultural identity in my job and I'm, my job is to have difficult conversations with people and to push them.

• 2:07:56Rich Roll?

  On the cultural diversity aspect of what you do.

• 2:07:58Mirna Valerio?

  And so, yeah, so, so where did you hear that from? Did you, do you have, is there a scholarly article that you have about this particular thing, about how I'm ruining my knees?

• 2:08:07Rich Roll?

  You get it, you roll your sleeves up and get engaged in these conversations.

• 2:08:11Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, I love it because it's just, you know, like, it

• 2:08:15Mirna Valerio?

  Because I really want to know where people are coming from. Like, and, and if I can convince another, one more person that you can't just say things because that's what you've always heard, um, without any real factual information, um, then you can't just be saying these things because it doesn't mean anything.

• 2:08:38Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 2:08:39Mirna Valerio?

  Um, so, yeah, so I, I kind of see it, that's my job, but like, oh, it's something that I, I think I do well. I think I pull things out of people and, and, and try, I really try to bring people to a new understanding of things. And, and if that is what I'm doing by just showing myself in public, and, um, I think it forces people to confront their own, you know, ideologies about body image, or, you know, or, or aesthetics.

• 2:09:07Rich Roll?

  What's been the most surprising thing about this whole crazy journey that you've been on? Other than the fact that it's just happening?

• 2:09:14Mirna Valerio?

  Well, yeah, I was gonna say that it's still happening because every day after the Wall Street Journal thing, I was like, oh, well, that was cool. That was really cool. Then Runners World happened, then NBC happened. I'm like, oh, that was cool. But there's no way that, you know, that, um, that this is going to last any longer than a few more weeks and, uh...

• 2:09:34Rich Roll?

  And you write the book, you get this book deal, and you're, I mean, not, it, it's not just that you wrote a book, like, you had book agents pursuing you in the wake of all this media, right?

• 2:09:44Mirna Valerio?

  Right. Which is totally weird and not the way it usually happens.

• 2:09:47Rich Roll?

  No, it doesn't, it doesn't happen that way.

• 2:09:50Mirna Valerio?

  Um, you know, because I get a lot of questions, well, how did you find it? How did you find a literary agent? And I was like, actually, they found me. And, um, I didn't have to write any queries or anything. And I know that's not the reality for most writers, and, and so I feel very fortunate in that. But, um, yeah, I mean, the fact that it's still, um, a thing, people are talking about me, um, kind of not in the way, I, I'd always wanted to write a book. And I thought, you know, at one point, I did think that I was, was going to be a professional singer. And, um, but, uh... Yeah, but you know, the cool thing, one of the cool things anyway, is that all of this sort of media attention and the things that I get to do, that I got to write a book,

• 2:10:32Mirna Valerio?

  that I'm always on some kind of stage, whether it's in a small venue or a large venue, that everything that I've ever done, this is like, this is a confluence of the performing arts, the work that I do professionally, I've always been a writer.

• 2:10:49Rich Roll?

  It's all coming together.

• 2:10:50Mirna Valerio?

  It's all coming together.

• 2:10:51Rich Roll?

  It's like, if you look backwards, it all lines up perfectly for you to be, be the best person suited to carry this message, this like vibration that you're bringing into the world. Like, all that training, like, is all integral to the things that you're doing, the writing, the performing, the stage presence, all of the confidence, you know, all of it. It's really cool.

• 2:11:14Mirna Valerio?

  It is, yeah, it is cool.

• 2:11:15Rich Roll?

  So when you were writing your book, like, what was the, you know, what was it that was most important to you, that you wanted to make sure came across?

• 2:11:25Mirna Valerio?

  Um, I, it was very important to me to frame my own story. You know, as I had, you know, the NBC video was out, this was out, that was out, and there was always this sort of shade of, you know, "Look at this anomaly, you know, she's obese and she's able to run a 50K." And that's fine, that's okay.

• 2:11:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's the clickbaity title that's gonna get people to read.

• 2:11:58Mirna Valerio?

  "This woman that struggles with her weight." Now, that, that was, I did some TV thing. I think it was a Tough Mudder thing, which I really loved doing, that was really fun. But they titled it, or one of the, the lines that they used was like, "A woman who, this woman who struggles with her weight." I don't struggle with my weight, I don't, because that implies a fight. And there is no fight. And so I wanted to reframe all of that. You know, here, I'm a big girl, I know that, and... You know, that's a part of who I am. But I wanted to tell people, like, people are really complex. You know, all of humanity is very complex.

• 2:12:40Mirna Valerio?

  So like, what you see is not necessarily, you can't judge a book by its cover. It's very cliche, but that's essentially what I wanted. I wanted to write my own story. Like, this is who I am. Thank you NBC Runners World and Wall Street Journal for starting the conversation. But I want, here's a little bit more information about me, about how important family is in this journey, how important my education was. And, you know, how everything that I do is a confluence of all of those things that I've ever been able to do. And so that was my, that was my, my goal in, in writing the book.

• 2:13:24Mirna Valerio?

  So, yeah.

• 2:13:26Rich Roll?

  Well, I think you, I mean, you achieved that goal, you know, very much so. Like, it's beautifully written and it's, it's such a compelling story. Like, I think I saw somewhere that initially the book was meant to be more like a how-to or that was sort of the essence of the proposal or whatever. And I'm so glad you didn't do that and you just told your story because if you really want to activate people, like a list of, or a program or whatever, it has value, but there's nothing more activating or, or catalyzing than an incredible story that people can emotionally connect with. And you certainly did that.

• 2:14:04Mirna Valerio?

  Thank you, thank you. And I was, you know, as I was writing it, it was always, I always had the phrase, "show, don't tell," in, in my mind. Because I, there are so many training books out there. And there are training books, training plans specifically for people who are bigger people. And I, I didn't, I wasn't interested in writing that because that's, that's easy. And, yeah, and it does have value, but I really wanted to show people that here I am, this is what I'm doing in my body. And, and I think people do really connect with personal stories.

• 2:14:47Mirna Valerio?

  And, and clearly, they have connected, you know, with, with my story and the pieces of my story. And, yeah. Bye.

• 2:14:59Rich Roll?

  What is running meant to you? Like if you had to articulate a response to that?

• 2:15:05Mirna Valerio?

  Um, well, you know, from the first time I really engaged in running for the sake of running in 1989, it, that was life-changing.

• 2:15:20Mirna Valerio?

  In many different ways. Because I think running was this incredible way of learning about my body.

• 2:15:29Rich Roll?

  Eighty-nine being when you?

• 2:15:30Mirna Valerio?

  Nineteen eighty-nine.

• 2:15:31Rich Roll?

  When you went to boarding school.

• 2:15:32Mirna Valerio?

  When I went to boarding school.

• 2:15:36Mirna Valerio?

  It was this thing that was fairly easy to do. Didn't need any equipment, I didn't have to buy anything. But it was so empowering in terms of, as I said, you know, me learning about the, the value and power of my own body. And, and of course, that, that leaches into other areas of my life. I feel powerful when I'm running and that just transfers, transfers over into other things. And it just makes me feel so good and it's still to this day.

• 2:16:16Mirna Valerio?

  It's something that just gives me this incredible energy and, and enthusiasm about life.

• 2:16:26Rich Roll?

  So why ultra-marathons? Like why do you keep trying to go further? What is it about that, that you're seeking? What is it, what is the question you're answering, you're, you're asking yourself or the answer that you're seeking for yourself through these races?

• 2:16:47Mirna Valerio?

  I, well, okay.

• 2:16:50Rich Roll?

  Cause you could just keep running 10K's or run marathons or whatever.

• 2:16:55Mirna Valerio?

  I, I just, I really wanna see how far I can go in this body.

• 2:17:02Mirna Valerio?

  And where it will take me. Sort of both, you know, as a metaphor and, you know, and literally.

• 2:17:13Mirna Valerio?

  Because it has taken me to really, really cool places. And.

• 2:17:19Mirna Valerio?

  And you know, it also gives me a chance to be around people that enjoy the same thing that I enjoy, but it allows me mental space to be by myself. And it's something that has taught me a lot about myself and about the world. And so, the longer I can do that, the you know, the more I will.

• 2:17:42Rich Roll?

  So where is all this heading? Like where, what do you want to, what do you want to accomplish that you haven't yet? Or where are your sights set?

• 2:17:49Mirna Valerio?

  Hmm, uh, well, I'm gonna do Trans Rockies again.

• 2:17:55Rich Roll?

  We didn't even get into all your races. We've been going for like over two hours. We didn't even like do any, we didn't even talk about your races at all. It's funny, I put it on Twitter, I was like, what do you want me to ask about? It's the same every time. It's like, how do you train? It's like, yeah, that's not interesting.

• 2:18:10Mirna Valerio?

  Now, what's your nutrition?

• 2:18:11Rich Roll?

  Right. But, but, so you made this attempt on Trans Rockies?

• 2:18:15Mirna Valerio?

  I did, and uh,

• 2:18:16Rich Roll?

  Didn't go well.

• 2:18:18Mirna Valerio?

  Well, you know what? Parts of it went really well. Like, I thought it was really fun. It was, I was, I had altitude sickness for the six days.

• 2:18:27Rich Roll?

  It's a crazy race. Just tell people what the race is.

• 2:18:30Mirna Valerio?

  It's, um, Trans Rockies is a three day or a six day stage race. And a six day race, you, the total mileage is 120 miles, and the total elevation gain is 20,000.

• 2:18:47Mirna Valerio?

  20,000?

• 2:18:48Rich Roll?

  No, it's gotta be more than that.

• 2:18:50Mirna Valerio?

  120 miles.

• 2:18:51Rich Roll?

  I can look it up, I can look it up.

• 2:18:53Mirna Valerio?

  Now I don't remember. I was just talking about this last time.

• 2:18:55Rich Roll?

  It's definitely more than 20,000. It's gotta be.

• 2:18:57Mirna Valerio?

  You know, it might, it might actually just be 20,000.

• 2:19:00Rich Roll?

  Really?

• 2:19:00Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:01Rich Roll?

  For the three days? Over three days?

• 2:19:02Mirna Valerio?

  The six days. And really, the challenge is, is being at altitude. I did not finish 120 miles. I finished 72 miles. And, yeah, it was 20,000. And 14,250 feet of elevation gain. But again, it was something I learned so much about myself in my failure.

• 2:19:29Mirna Valerio?

  To complete the entire distance. And so I have some unfinished business and there. So that's why I signed up for it again next year. And but, yeah, so I'd like to do that again. I'd like to explore trail running in different countries. I'm going to be in the Azores in a couple of months, doing a 65K. And, you know, so that'll be a new experience for me. I love new experiences. Eventually, I'd like to try a 100 miler. It will probably not be next year because I have a lot of things on my docket. And but maybe like Tahoe, maybe in the future.

• 2:20:13Rich Roll?

  You mean like western states?

• 2:20:15Mirna Valerio?

  Nah, I'd never get in. But that's okay.

• 2:20:18Rich Roll?

  It's a lottery.

• 2:20:19Mirna Valerio?

  That's, that's nice.

• 2:20:22Rich Roll?

  I don't know. You're the motivator.

• 2:20:25Mirna Valerio?

  I'm going to stick with just like doing like long distance, but not like western states or like, somebody asked me if, oh, am I, am I gonna like try to do Leadville? No. I will let the professional runners do that and those, you know, but there, there are lots of other things that I could be doing. And I'd love, I love the 50K distance. So I want to try 50Ks on different terrain, in different states, in different countries.

• 2:20:57Mirna Valerio?

  Because that's, that's, I would say is my, like, my specialty. Yeah.

• 2:21:04Rich Roll?

  You're balancing a lot. Family, full-time job, running ultra marathons. You go to a lot of conferences. You speak a lot. You know, like, you're writing books, you're doing all these things. Like, I don't want to see you get chest pains again because you have anxiety or you have another panic attack because you're, you're, you're in a situation now where you're going to get more and more opportunities. And, and all of them are going to be super cool things you're going to want to do. And you're going to have to figure out.

• 2:21:31Mirna Valerio?

  Well, something's gonna have to give.

• 2:21:33Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:33Mirna Valerio?

  I am, I am working on a graceful exit from formal education.

• 2:21:41Rich Roll?

  So that you will, then you'll legitimately be a professional runner?

• 2:21:46Mirna Valerio?

  Up speaker, writer.

• 2:21:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah, no, that's great. Listen, this is your calling and you are a teacher. You're just, you're just going to be teaching in a different context. You know what I mean? And I can definitely see that unfolding for you. So I think that would be great.

• 2:22:00Mirna Valerio?

  Fingers crossed.

• 2:22:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And where is, like, where do you want to take the advocacy piece of what you do? Like, what would be your vision for the impact that you can have?

• 2:22:13Mirna Valerio?

  Well, you know what? I really love doing retreats. I've done them for my students for the work that I do in diversity. And, um, and I, I'm a good teacher. I'm a good work shopper. I'd love to, to do some self-esteem work with women and men. I'd love to do, uh, there are a lot of people that are afraid of trail running,

• 2:22:36Mirna Valerio?

  because they think they're too fat, they're too out of shape or whatever. I'd love to get those people into the arena and, and teach them and, uh, you know, be explicit and, and be very encouraging and get them out there. I actually offered a trail running retreat a couple of years ago. And then people started sending me money, but, and I freaked out because they were sending me money. Because they wanted to do it.

• 2:22:57Rich Roll?

  Oh, my God, this is real.

• 2:22:57Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah. And so I canceled it.

• 2:22:59Rich Roll?

  Really?

• 2:23:00Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, I know, I know. It's awful, right?

• 2:23:02Rich Roll?

  It takes some of your own self-esteem medicine.

• 2:23:04Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, yeah. And, uh, so I definitely want to offer something like that again. I will not cancel it. I will take your money.

• 2:23:14Rich Roll?

  That's so interesting, though, that you, you receive this money and you have this severe emotional reaction to that. Like, you didn't feel ready.

• 2:23:21Mirna Valerio?

  You know what? And I don't think I was. I am definitely ready now.

• 2:23:26Mirna Valerio?

  I think I have a little bit more credibility.

• 2:23:28Rich Roll?

  Send the renovator your money. So she can't get out of it.

• 2:23:35Rich Roll?

  Right?

• 2:23:36Mirna Valerio?

  Like who, who turns down money? Uh, Mirna Valerius.

• 2:23:40Rich Roll?

  I guess, right? That Audi just got further and further away from you.

• 2:23:44Mirna Valerio?

  Audi Q7. Um, but yeah, so I, I want to do more of that. I want, I love speaking. It comes very naturally for me. And, uh, and I have a couple of, um, book proposals. Works.

• 2:24:01Rich Roll?

  I'm sure you do.

• 2:24:02Mirna Valerio?

  Some special projects. But, uh, yeah, and so I'd love the space and time to do that without having to, without having to leave my students all the time.

• 2:24:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but you're just going to have new students. They're just going to be different. Right?

• 2:24:16Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:17Rich Roll?

  And they're going to send you money.

• 2:24:19Mirna Valerio?

  And I will gladly accept it.

• 2:24:21Rich Roll?

  Cash those checks, right? All right, we gotta, uh, we gotta wrap this up. But I, I would like to kind of close this with, um, you know, perhaps a few words of wisdom that you could impart to, to somebody who, who, who can identify with you physically, who's listening, who just feels scared or feels like, well, I see Mirna out there doing it, but I just, I don't know how she does that. Like I struck, you know, I don't want to use the struggle with my weight. God forbid I use that phrase after what you said. Somebody who is in a situation where they don't feel healthy or they don't feel empowered in their own body, but they want to make a difference, but they just can't, they don't know where to start.

• 2:25:01Mirna Valerio?

  Um, you, number one, the utmost important thing is practicing self-love. And for a lot of people, that is going to take you out of your comfort zone, uh, because you probably don't know how to do it.

• 2:25:21Mirna Valerio?

  There are lots of resources and whatnot, but, uh, just looking at yourself and saying, I love you and, um, I am strong, I am powerful, I am able, um, I am capable.

• 2:25:35Mirna Valerio?

  Those things, like having a mantra, um, you can even use somebody else's mantra, um, and repeating those things to yourself.

• 2:25:43Rich Roll?

  What are your mantras?

• 2:25:44Mirna Valerio?

  I have so many.

• 2:25:48Mirna Valerio?

  I really love this mantra by Dr. Christiane Northrup. I love myself unconditionally right now. And, you know, sometimes you just have to go through the motions of saying it. Eventually, you will start to believe it. But there is a lot of power in saying things out loud. Again, even if you don't initially believe it, you will start to believe it. Language has so much power. So get yourself a mantra. Take somebody else's. Say it to yourself. Whenever you are feeling doubtful, when you're feeling happy, when you're feeling powerful, just say it to yourself over and over again. And I think that's, for a lot of people, that's, it's an easy step.

• 2:26:33Mirna Valerio?

  You don't have to buy anything. You don't have to, you know, really do anything differently. You're just, you're just stating that you love yourself. And then figure out ways to express that self-love, whether it's taking a walk, or writing in a journal, or doing morning pages. Something I used to do all the time.

• 2:26:51Rich Roll?

  Oh, yeah, me too. Artist way, man.

• 2:26:54Mirna Valerio?

  Yep.

• 2:26:55Rich Roll?

  I recommend it constantly to people.

• 2:26:57Mirna Valerio?

  Yes, you know, I don't do morning pages anymore, but when I did it, it changed my life.

• 2:27:03Rich Roll?

  Super powerful.

• 2:27:04Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah. You know, whatever, you gotta find, find ways, or find things that make you happy, that aren't hard to do. And just incorporate those things into your daily routine. And then it becomes a routine, becomes a habit, and then you can add on to that. And then, and find something that you might be interested in, that maybe you think you can't do, or maybe someone has told you, you won't be able to do that. And, goddammit, do it anyway. Just do it. You have to, this requires a huge step out of your comfort zone. But you are not going to learn anything or progress if you don't step out of your comfort zone.

• 2:27:49Mirna Valerio?

  So if you continue to stay in your own bubble, you're not gonna be able to do something different.

• 2:27:55Rich Roll?

  Yeah, at some point, you have to take an action.

• 2:27:56Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:57Rich Roll?

  Right? You can read a zillion self-help books and intellectualize it all, but ultimately, you have to like, put something into, into motion, right?

• 2:28:05Mirna Valerio?

  Absolutely. And then find people, you know, find a tribe. Even if you're an introvert, find a tribe, find people who are your cheerleaders, people who will do stuff with you, people who will

• 2:28:23Mirna Valerio?

  tell you the truth. People that love you unconditionally, because now you love yourself unconditionally. You have to find a tribe that replicates that.

• 2:28:33Mirna Valerio?

  And yeah, do you, you know, maybe it's not running, maybe it's not, uh, maybe it's not writing a book. Maybe it's, uh, I don't know, swimming in a lake, I mean, whatever it is, you know, do it and find somebody that'll do it with you. Or even if not, even if you don't find a buddy, do it on your own. There's so much power in doing things individually.

• 2:28:56Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, I mean, all of these things, you know, I keep seeing that these things have to be a habit, but it's true. If you don't have a habit of self-love, if you don't have a, have a habit of stepping out of your comfort zone, you won't experience growth. So.

• 2:29:13Rich Roll?

  So the first step is creating that habit.

• 2:29:15Mirna Valerio?

  Creating a habit.

• 2:29:16Rich Roll?

  And the creation of the habit begins with the first act.

• 2:29:19Mirna Valerio?

  Yes, absolutely. And, and the last thing I'll say is that nothing happens overnight. So know that, uh, whatever you are changing, whatever you're doing, whatever your goal is, it is going to be a journey. It'll probably be, um, there will be moments of, of just of joy and amazement, and there will be moments of awfulness and where you just have to sort of be in the trenches and do the work.

• 2:29:52Mirna Valerio?

  But that has tremendous implications for success.

• 2:29:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah, those moments of awfulness can be the true catalyst for your ultimate growth, right? Like, don't, don't try to avoid them or ignore them when they happen. Like, understand that they're, they're for your own personal growth and learning.

• 2:30:11Mirna Valerio?

  Yep.

• 2:30:12Rich Roll?

  Beautiful. I think we did it.

• 2:30:15Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, cool.

• 2:30:16Rich Roll?

  How do you feel?

• 2:30:17Mirna Valerio?

  I feel great. A little exhausted.

• 2:30:20Rich Roll?

  I thought it was pretty good.

• 2:30:23Rich Roll?

  You're a beautiful work in progress, Mirna Valerio. Thank you so much for talking to me.

• 2:30:28Mirna Valerio?

  Thank you, Rich.

• 2:30:29Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the book is great. Everybody should definitely run out to their favorite independent bookstore and buy it. And if you're too lazy to do that, there's always Amazon. And you can track down Mirna pretty easily on the internet. Fat Girl Running is the blog, and she's the Myrnivator on Twitter and Instagram, right? Those are the best places, yeah?

• 2:30:51Mirna Valerio?

  Yep, and also on Facebook, too.

• 2:30:53Rich Roll?

  On Facebook, right.

• 2:30:54Mirna Valerio?

  Myrnivator, Mirna Valerio dash Myrnivator, and then also Fat Girl Running on Facebook.

• 2:30:57Rich Roll?

  Is there like one place that you kind of focus on more than the others?

• 2:31:01Mirna Valerio?

  I'm working on a website.

• 2:31:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah. You don't have a website?

• 2:31:06Mirna Valerio?

  I know, I know, it's ridiculous. And yeah, I know, but not yet.

• 2:31:10Rich Roll?

  All right, well, that's coming, right?

• 2:31:12Mirna Valerio?

  Yes.

• 2:31:12Rich Roll?

  It's part of the work in progress. It's in progress. Awesome. Do you have any like speaking things coming up if people hear this? Since you don't have a website, you can go to your website to find out, right?

• 2:31:24Mirna Valerio?

  Low-key shade. I'm actually doing, I'm doing a small book tour with, via the collaboration of REI and Merrill. And so I will be in Raleigh, the Raleigh Durham area. I'll be in Seattle, DC, Framingham, near Boston, in Atlanta. And all those dates I typically post on my Instagram and my Twitter and all of my Facebook accounts. So you can always go to any of those accounts and see where I'm at.

• 2:32:02Rich Roll?

  Maybe REI, do they have a schedule posted somewhere?

• 2:32:04Mirna Valerio?

  REI actually does have a schedule posted somewhere.

• 2:32:08Rich Roll?

  You know what, I'll find the link to that and I'll put it in the show notes, just so everybody can find it easily. Cool. All right, last question.

• 2:32:15Mirna Valerio?

  Yeah, sure.

• 2:32:16Rich Roll?

  Are you ready for this? How do you feel about singing a little bit?

• 2:32:21Mirna Valerio?

  Oh.

• 2:32:22Rich Roll?

  To take us out. You could say no, but I can't not ask you. Come on.

• 2:32:27Mirna Valerio?

  Okay, because most people don't.

• 2:32:29Rich Roll?

  Really? I was like, I have this Julliard-trained opera singer sitting right here. I have to ask her to sing something.

• 2:32:38Mirna Valerio?

  Okay, yeah, I'll sing something.

• 2:32:42Speaker 02

  Okay, so, um, 'cause I ain't warmed up. Uh, I will sing, uh, this. There's a lullaby that I really like in, um, Spanish.

• 2:32:53Rich Roll?

  Cool.

• 2:32:54Speaker 02

  Um, by, that was set to, uh, music, oh, it was set to, um,

• 2:33:03Speaker 02

  look, an instrumental version or whatnot by Manuel de Falla. And, uh, okay, goes like this. Duérmete niño, duerme. Duérme mi alma. Duérme de lucerito de la mañana.

• 2:33:48Speaker 02

  Nana nana. Nana nana. Duérme de lucerito de la mañana.

• 2:34:31Rich Roll?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:34:34Rich Roll?

  Like, I knew you could sing.

• 2:34:35Mirna Valerio?

  Unwarmed up version.

• 2:34:37Rich Roll?

  I knew you could sing. I had no idea. That was unbelievable.

• 2:34:43Mirna Valerio?

  Thank you.

• 2:34:44Rich Roll?

  Wow, you are touched by angels. That was amazing. What are the, what are the words to that?

• 2:34:49Mirna Valerio?

  It's a lullaby. Um, duerme te niño, duerme, sleep, child, sleep.

• 2:34:59Mirna Valerio?

  Sleep my soul, mi alma.

• 2:35:04Mirna Valerio?

  Sleep, uh, little light, nuserito. Sleep little light of the morning, but it's very poetic.

• 2:35:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Wow, that was amazing. Thank you for doing that. All right. Will you come back and do another podcast?

• 2:35:17Mirna Valerio?

  Absolutely.

• 2:35:20Rich Roll?

  Thanks so much.

• 2:35:20Mirna Valerio?

  Thank you.

• 2:35:21Rich Roll?

  Peace.

• 2:35:22Mirna Valerio?

  Bye.

• 2:35:25Rich Roll?

  Insane, right? I told you, it's unbelievable. Can you believe that that is her voice? Oh my God. What an incredible human being. What an inspiring conversation. Hope you guys enjoyed that. Please make a point of hitting up Myrna on social media and letting her know what you thought of today's talk. Also, pick up her new book, a beautiful work in progress. It's really a wonderful read. I think you guys will enjoy that. And make a point of checking out the show notes on the episode page at richroll.com for all these links to learn more about Myrna and take your experience of her world to the next level. If you would like to support my work, please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts. That's the one thing that you can do. It's free. It's simple. It doesn't take any time and it really does help us out with enhancing the show's visibility, extending reach, hopefully growing the audience, which makes it easier for me to then book amazing guests to talk to and share with you guys.

• 2:36:23Rich Roll?

  You can also share the show with your friends and on social media. Leave a review on iTunes, Apple Podcasts. Subscribe to my YouTube channel, youtube.com/richroll. We are filming all of the episodes going forward. We didn't film Myrna because this one took place in a hotel room and. It's a long story, never mind, but in any event, all the episodes that are taking place at my house, at least, we are filming them and got some really great, exciting conversations coming up for you guys. We also have a Patreon set up for people who would like to support my work financially. Thank you so much to everybody who has done that. I'm going to be scheduling and Ask Me Anything, a live video AMA for Patreon supporters soon. I

• 2:37:06Rich Roll?

  will let everybody know on the Patreon platform of that date. And you can of course, follow me on Twitter and on Instagram at Rich Roll. How's the eating going? Are you guys struggling? We're, what are we, two weeks, less than two weeks into the new year? Did you guys make resolutions about your diet, about your nutrition? Did you decide to not take advantage of that crazy sale we had on the Meal Planner that was $20 off for like a week there? If you missed it, you can still check out the Meal Planner, meals.richroll.com, thousands of plant-based recipes. We have grocery lists. We have, what else do we have? We have grocery delivery. That's all integrated with the recipes that you select when you live in, I

• 2:37:49Rich Roll?

  think it's up to 60, maybe even 80 metropolitan cities right now. We have incredible customer support. This is a really amazing tool that I am behind 100%. I'm so proud of it. It's helping a lot of people. And it's basically $1.90 a week when you sign up for a year, which is like really affordable. If your health is a priority, it's even more affordable. So to check it out, go to meals.richroll.com or click on Meal Planner on the top menu on my website, richroll.com. Okay. I want to thank everybody who helped put on the show today. Jason Camiolo for audio engineering, for additional production assistance for interstitial music. He has been like my go-to compadre in this. He edits the show. He helps

• 2:38:33Rich Roll?

  with the show notes. He helps create scripts for these introductions. He does a lot of work on the show. So, thank you, Jason. Sean Patterson for help on graphics, theme music as always by Analemma. Thanks for all of you guys. Good to be back here for a midweek episode and I'll see you back here on Monday. Until then, make it great. Peace, plants. Namaste.