Liv Reads Homer: The Odyssey (A Modern Translation!) Book 22

Liv reads Book 22 of Homer's Odyssey, translated by Ian Johnston. This entire book is basically just a massacre... thanks Odysseus! This modern translation is used with immense gratitude to translator Ian Johnston and Vancouver Island University https://johnstoniatexts.x10host.com/homer/odysseytofc.html. Submit questions and prompts for future Odyssey readings at mythsbaby.com/questions http://mythsbaby.com/questions and get ad-free episodes and so, so much more, by subscribing to the Oracle Edition at patreon.com/mythsbaby http://patreon.com/mythsbaby CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. I try to provide direct warnings when there is reference to anything with overtly traumatic themes but be aware that Greek mythology regularly features assault, death, and many other potentially triggering events. This is not a standard narrative story episode, it's a reading of an ancient source, audiobook style. For regular episodes look for any that don't have "Liv Reads..." in the title! Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here:mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions http://mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions. Learn more about Liv's next group trips https://travelbugxlivalbert.my.canva.site/ to GREECE! Application deadline is November 30 (Subject to change due to demand). Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Liv Albert?

  Hey nerds, really quick note from me. I want to tell you that we now have the applications open for the next set of listener group trips. This is us going back to the original, the trips that we have held in the past that have been so much fun, so successful, and pretty affordable in terms of wandering around Greece with a bunch of nerds. So check out the details and get your applications in at mythsbaby.com/grouptrip.

• 1:05Liv Albert?

  Hello, this is Let's Talk About Myths, baby, and I am your host, Liv, here with another reading. And I am, well, I'm excited. I'm excited. We are getting to the darkest parts of this messy, messy story. I mean, you know it, you love it. I know it, I love it. But we are finally getting to, I mean, you know, the part where he kills everybody. We got really close last time. I kind of love that that book 21 really ends with a cliffhanger. Except again, we all know the story. And this is just fun to read it again in this different version. And I am completely obsessed. We're also getting towards the end.

• 1:50Liv Albert?

  And I was, that was me pausing to remember what had actually transpired. But no, I do, I, I have a version of the Iliad to read that is translated by this same wonderful translator who has put out these translations into the world for free. And oh, my gosh, we love this for us. But of course, I know, like, the Iliad is another I've read before, like, six years ago now. So maybe you'll want it again. I'm probably gonna do it again anyway. But let me know if you're keen to have that be the next reading in this ongoing series

• 2:31Liv Albert?

  of readings. I'm also looking out for, I'm trying to find a half decent, public domain, like copyright free translation of the Achillead, which should be by Statius. He also wrote the Thebaid, which I read for you all. If anyone knows of a copy of that, that's pretty good. Feel free to send it my way. I think I might have access. It's just gonna be old, like the Thebaid that I read. But everyone will like that anyway. So maybe we'll do that one next. This, this point, this is just me rambling to you all. But let me know if you have thoughts on what the read next reading episode is going to be, because we only have like, a couple, max, probably three, episodes left of The Odyssey. We'll see what

• 3:12Liv Albert?

  we get through today. Phew. Things are getting wild and incredibly violent. So last, we left off, remember, Odysseus is back in Ithaca, but he is still disguised as an old beggar. Man, it's all very, you know. And Telemachus knows, they've prepared everything, they've locked the doors to keep the women away. They have, you know, hidden the weapons. There's no random hole in the floor for Robert Pattinson to throw them down into. I don't even know if it's him who does it in the movie. That's just a bad Nolan joke. In any case,

• 3:51Liv Albert?

  it's really happening. It's happening now. And is this when I tell you all this ridiculously dark joke that has been living in my head for the last year? Yeah, it might be. Anyway, I feel like I've tested my audience by this point. So I'll happily say it into this microphone. But I will tell you all that this next scene that we are about to read, well, I, you know, in my researching and writing for my book of The Odyssey last year, obviously, I'd read this a ton of times over the year. But when I was working on this scene, so when I was

• 4:30Liv Albert?

  making my own retelling, I, I got right to, well, I'm giving it all away. Anyway, the really obnoxious, mouthy, predatory, young man, Antinous, he's about to get shot through the neck. And if I tell you that I started working on that page, the morning that it happened, prove me wrong. Prove me wrong. Any case, when last year, that misogynist, racist, hateful piece of human garbage happened to get shot through the neck, well,

• 5:14Liv Albert?

  I don't know, I just saw it as a piece of poetic justice, I guess, is what I'm saying. And now, every time I think about the moment that Odysseus takes revenge on Antinous, one of the most predatory and decidedly evil of the suitors, that just makes me smile.

• 5:38Liv Albert?

  And if you get what I'm talking about, you get what I'm talking about. And if not, well, I'm about to get back to the book. So that's fine. Anyway, in the world we live in today, we just, we gotta get a little joy out of certain things, you know? And when terrible people eat shit, well, I get a little bit of joy.

• 6:23Liv Albert?

  This is Homer's Odyssey, Book 22, translated by Ian Johnston, and used with immense gratitude to the translator and Vancouver Island University. Just generic shout out, nanaimo this time. Actually, I recently got an order from somebody who wanted a book plate and a bunch of stickers. Thank you. And who lives on Vancouver Island. So shout out to you. The person whose name I'm obviously not going to say, but who is having me ship stickers to Vancouver Island? Shout out to you.

• 6:56Liv Albert?

  "Resourceful Odysseus stripped off his rags, grabbed up the bow and quiver full of arrows, and sprang up, moving to the doorway. He dumped his swift arrows beside his feet and then shouted at the suitors. This contest to determine who is best is over, but there's another target, one no man has ever struck. I'll find out if I can hit it. May Apollo grant I get the glory. As Odysseus spoke, he aimed a bitter arrow straight at Antinous, who was just about to raise up to his lips a fine double-handed goblet he was holding in his hands, so he could drink some wine. In his heart, there was no thought of slaughter.

• 7:38Liv Albert?

  Among those feasting, who would ever think, in such a crowd of people, that one man, even if his strength was truly great, would risk confronting evil death, his own black fate? Odysseus took aim and hit him with an arrow right in the neck. Its point passed through his tender throat. He slumped over on his side, and as he was hit, the goblet fell to the ground, and thick spurts of blood came flowing quickly from his nose. Then, suddenly, he pushed the table from him with his foot, spilling food onto the floor. The bread and roasted meat were ruined. When the suitors saw Antinous fall, they raised an uproar in the house, leaping from their seats, scurrying in panic through the hall,

• 8:22Liv Albert?

  looking round, searching in every corner of the well-built walls. But there were no weapons anywhere, no strong spear or shield for them to seize. They all began to shout, yelling words of anger at Odysseus. Stranger, you'll pay for shooting arrows at this man. For you, there'll be no contests anymore. It's certain you'll be killed once and for all. You've killed a man by far the finest youth in all of Ithaca, and now vultures are going to feast on you. Each of them shouted out words like this. They did not realize he had killed the man on purpose. In their folly, they did not understand that they were now enmeshed in destruction's net. Shrewd Odysseus scowled at them and gave his answer.

• 9:06Liv Albert?

  You dogs, because you thought I'd not come back from Troy to my own home, you've been ravaging my house, raping women, and in devious ways, wooing my wife, while I was still alive, with no fear of gods who hold wide heaven, or of any man who might take his revenge in days to come. And now a fatal snare has caught you all. As Odysseus said, this pale fear seized the suitors. Each man looked around to see how he might flee complete destruction. Only Eurydice spoke. He answered him and said, "If, in fact, it's true that you're Odysseus of Ithaca, back home again, you're right in what you say about the actions

• 9:47Liv Albert?

  of Achaeans here. Their frequent reckless conduct in your home, there are many foolish actions in the fields. But the man who is responsible for this now lies dead. I mean, Antinous, the one who started all this business, not because he was all that eager to get married, that's not what he desired. No, for he had another plan in mind, which Cronos' son did not bring to fulfillment. He wanted to become king of fertile Ithaca by ambushing your son and killing him. Now he himself is dead, as he deserved. At this point, then, you should spare your people. Later on, we'll collect throughout the land, payment for what we've had to eat and drink inside your halls, and every man will bring you compensation in his own, in an amount worth twenty oxen, paying you in gold and bronze until your

• 10:31Liv Albert?

  heart is mollified. Until that time, no one is blaming you for being so angry."

• 10:38Liv Albert?

  Shrewd Odysseus glared at him, and then replied, "Eurymicus, if you gave me all the goods you got from your own fathers, everything which you now own, and added other assets you could obtain elsewhere, not even then, would I hold back my hands from slaughter, not until the suitors pay for all their arrogance. Now you've a choice, to fight here face to face, or, if someone wishes to evade his death and lethal fate, to run away. But I don't think there's one who will escape being utterly destroyed."

• 11:08Liv Albert?

  As Odysseus said this, their knees and hearts went slack, right where they stood. Then Eurymicus spoke once more, calling out to them, "Friends, this man won't check those all conquering hands of his. Instead, now he's got the polished bow and quiver from that threshold, he'll just keep on shooting, until he's killed us all. So let's think now about how we should fight. Pull out your swords, and set tables up to block those arrows, they bring on death so fast. And then let's charge, go at him all together in a group, so we can dislodge him from the threshold, clear the door, get down into the city, and sound the alarm as swiftly as we can. Then this man should soon take his final shot."

• 11:48Liv Albert?

  Once he said this, Eurymicus pulled out his sword, a sharp, two-edged blade of bronze, and then charged out, rushing at Odysseus with a blood-curdling shout. As he did so, Lord Odysseus shot an arrow. It hit him in the chest, striking near his nipple, and the swift shaft sped on, straight into his liver. Eurymicus's sword slipped down onto the ground, he bent double, writhing on the table, and collapsed, knocking food and two-handled cups onto the floor. His forehead kept hammering the earth, his heart in agony, as both his feet kicked at the air and made it shake. A mist fell over both his eyes.

• 12:28Liv Albert?

  Then Amphidamus went at glorious Odysseus, charging straight for him, his sharp sword drawn and ready, to see if he would somehow yield the door to him. But Telemachus moved in too quickly for him. He threw a bronze-tipped spear and hit him from behind, between the shoulder blades. He drove it through his chest. With a crash, Amphidamus fell, and his forehead struck hard against the ground. Telemachus jumped back, leaving his spear in Amphidamus, afraid that if he tried recovering the long-shadowed spear, some Acain might attack and stab him with a sword, or lunge at him as he was dealing with the corpse. So he backed off quickly, and made his way across to his dear father. Standing close to him, he spoke. His words

• 13:10Liv Albert?

  had wings. "Father, now I'll bring you a shield, two spears, a helmet made of bronze, ones that fits your temples. When I get back, I'll arm myself and hand out other weapons to the swineherd and the keeper of goats. It's better if we fully arm ourselves."

• 13:26Liv Albert?

  Quick-witted Odysseus answered him and said, "Get them here fast, while I still have arrows to protect myself, in case they push me from the door, since I'm here by myself." Odysseus spoke. Telemachus obeyed the orders of his dear father. He hurried to the storeroom where they kept their splendid weapons. From there, he took four shields, eight spears, and four helmets made of bronze with thick horsehair plumes. He went out carrying these, and made his way back quickly to his dear father. First, he armed himself with bronze around his body, and the two servants did the same, dressing themselves in dazzling armor. Then they went to take their place in the doorway beside skilled and shrewd Odysseus, who, as long as he had arrows to protect him, continued shooting at the suitors in

• 14:09Liv Albert?

  his home, killing them one by one. As his arrows hit them, they fell down in heaps, but once he'd used his arrows, the king could shoot no more. So he then propped the bow against the doorpost of the well-constructed wall, and let it lean beside the shining entranceway. Standing there alone, he set across his shoulders his four-layered spear, and on his powerful head he put a beautifully crafted helmet, with horsehair plumes nodding ominously on top. Then in his fists, he grabbed two heavy bronze-tipped spears. In that well-built wall, there was a narrow doorway, and, close to the upper level of the threshold into the great hall, the entrance to a passage blocked off by close-fitting

• 14:52Liv Albert?

  doors. So Odysseus told the worthy swineherd to stand beside that door and watch, for there was just one way of reaching it. Then Agolaeus cried, calling all the suitors, "Friends, can someone climb up to that side door and tell the men to raise a quick alarm? Then this man won't be shooting anymore." But Melanthius the goatherd answered him and said, "It can't be done, God-raised Agolaeus. The main gate to the yard is really near, and the entrance very hard to get through. One man could block the way for everyone if he were brave. But come, let me bring you armor from the storeroom, you could use it. It's in the house, I think. There's nowhere else Odysseus and his noble son could stash their weapons."

• 15:33Liv Albert?

  Once goatherd Melanthius said this, he climbed up a flight of stairs, inside the palace, up to Odysseus's storerooms. There, he took twelve shields, as many spears, and twelve helmets made of bronze with bushy horsehair plumes. Once he made it back, carrying the weapons as quickly as he could, he gave them to the suitors. Odysseus saw them putting that armor on, and their hands brandishing long spears, and fell to his knees, and his fond heart go slack. His task appeared enormous. He quickly called out to Telemachus, his words had wings, "Telemachus, it seems one of the women in the house has stirred up a nasty fight against us. Or perhaps Melanthius is the one." Prudent Telemachus then said in his reply, "Father, I bear the blame for this myself.

• 16:18Liv Albert?

  It's no one else's fault. I left it open, the close-fitting door of that storage room. One of them has keener eyes than I do. Come, good Eumaeus, shut the storeroom door. Try to find out if it was a woman who did this, or if it was Melanthius, Dolius's son. I suspect it's him." While they were saying these things to one another, Melanthius the goatherd went back once again to carry more armor from the storage room. But the diligent swineherd saw him and spoke out, saying a quick word to Odysseus, who was close by. "Resourceful Odysseus, Laertes's son, raised from Zeus, I can see that man again, the wretch we think is going to the storeroom. Give me clear instructions. Should I kill him, if I prove the stronger man, or should I bring him to you here? He can pay you back for the many insolent acts he's

• 17:03Liv Albert?

  done, those devious schemes he's thought up in your home." Resourceful Odysseus then answered him and said, "These proud suitors, Telemachus and I will keep them penned up in here, inside the hall, no matter how ferociously they fight. You two twist Melanthius's feet and arms behind him, then throw him in the storeroom, with boards lashed against his back. Tie the man to a twisted rope, and then hoist him up the lofty pillar till he's near the beams. Let him stay alive a while, and suffer in agonizing pain." As Odysseus spoke, they listened eagerly and did what he advised. They moved off to the storeroom without being seen by the man inside. He was, as it turned out, searching

• 17:46Liv Albert?

  in a corner of the room for more bronze weapons. As Melanthius the goatherd made his way out across the threshold, holding a lovely helmet in one hand, and in the other, an old, broad shield covered in mold, one belonging to Laertes, which he used to carry as a youthful warrior, but now was lying in storage with its seams unraveling on the straps. The two men jumped out, grabbed him, hauled him by the hair, back inside the room, and threw him on the ground. The man was terrified. They tied up his feet and hands with heart-wrenching bonds, and lashed them tight behind his back, as Odysseus, Laertes's royal son, who had endured so much, had ordered. They tied him up with a twisted rope, yanked him up a lofty

• 18:28Liv Albert?

  pillar, and raised him high up near the roof beams. And then, swineherd Eumaeus, you taunted him and said, "Now, Melanthius, you can truly remain on watch all night, stretched out on a warm bed, as you deserve. You won't miss early dawn on her golden throne, as she rises from the streams of ocean, the very hour you've been bringing goats here, so the suitors can prepare their banquets in these halls." They left Melanthius there, roped up and dangling in bonds which would destroy him. The two picked up their weapons, closed the shining door, and made their way to wise and crafty Odysseus. Filled with fighting spirit, they stood there, four of them on the threshold, facing many brave men in the hall.

• 19:13Liv Albert?

  Then Athena, Zeus's daughter, came up to them, looking just like Mentor, and with his voice as well. Odysseus saw her and rejoiced. He cried, "Mentor, help me fight off disaster. Remember me, your dear comrade. I've done good things for you. You're my companion, someone my own age." Odysseus said this, thinking Mentor was, in fact, Athena, who incites armed warriors to fight. From across the hall the suitors yelled, "Mentor, don't let what Odysseus says convince you to fight the suitors and to stand by him, for this is how it will end up, I think, when our will prevails. Once we've killed these men, father and son, then you'll be slaughtered too. You may be eager to win glory now, here in the hall, but you will have to pay with your own head.

• 19:58Liv Albert?

  Once our swords slice away that strength of yours, we'll put your property, all the fine things you have inside your home and in the fields, with what Odysseus owns, and refuse to let your sons and daughters live in your house, or your beloved wife remain in Ithaca, not in the city." After they made this threat, Athena, in her heart, grew very angry, and she rebuked Odysseus with heated words. "Odysseus, you no longer have that firm spirit and force you once possessed, when, for nine years, you fought against the Trojans over white-armed Helen, who was nobly born. You never stopped. You slaughtered many men in fearful combat. Through your stratagems, Priam's city of broad streets was taken. So how come now, when you are in your home, with your own possessions, you are moaning

• 20:43Liv Albert?

  about acting bravely with these suitors? Come on now, my friend, stand here beside me, see what I do, so you can understand the quality of Mentor, Alchemus's son. He may be surrounded by his enemies, but he repays those who have honored him." Athena spoke, but she did not give him the strength to win that fight decisively. She was still testing the power and resolution of Odysseus and his splendid son. So she flew up to the roof inside the smoky hall and sat there, taking on the appearance of a swallow. Meanwhile, the suitors, who were being urged to take action by Agoleus, Demastor's son,

• 21:23Liv Albert?

  by Eurynumus, Amphimidon, Dioptolymus, Pisander, Polyktor's son, and shrewd Polybus. Among the suitors still alive, these were the finest men by far. Odysseus's bow and his swift arrows had brought down all the others. Agoleus spoke out, addressing all the suitors. "Friends, this man's hands have been invincible, but now they'll stop. Mentor has moved away, once he uttered some empty boast, and now they're left alone before the outer gates. So don't throw those long spears of yours at them, not all at once. Come, you six men throw first, to see if Zeus will let us strike Odysseus and win glory. Those others over there will be no trouble after he's collapsed."

• 22:07Liv Albert?

  Agoleus spoke these words, and in their eagerness to follow what he said, the suitors hurled their spears. But Athena made sure their spear throws missed the mark. One suitor hit a doorpost in the well-built hall, another struck the closely-fitting door, one ash spear, weighted down with its bronze tip, fell against the wall. When they'd escaped the suitors' spears, Lord Odysseus, who had suffered so much pain, was the first to speak. "Friends, now I'll give the word. Let's hurl our spears into all those suitors trying to kill us, and adding to the harm they did before." Once Odysseus said this, they all took steady aim and threw their pointed spears.

• 22:50Liv Albert?

  Odysseus struck down Dioptolymus, Telemachus hit Eurides, the swineherd struck Elatus, and the cattle herder killed Pisander. As these three men lay dying, their teeth chewed up in the dirt. The suitors then pulled back to the intersection of the hall. The others rushed up quickly to pull the spears out of the dead. The suitors kept on throwing spears with frantic haste, but, though there were a lot, Athena made them miss. One suitor struck the doorpost of the well-built hall, another the closely-fitted door, one ash spear, weighted down with its bronze tip, was hurled into the wall. But Amphimidon did hit Telemachus's hand, a glancing blow across the wrist.

• 23:33Liv Albert?

  The bronze spear point sliced the surface of his skin, and with his long spear, Cytisippus grazed the swineherd's shoulder above his shield. But the spear veered off and fell down onto the ground. Then the group surrounded sly and shrewd Odysseus once more, threw sharp spears into the crowd of suitors, and once again Odysseus, sacchar of cities, hit a man, Euridamis, while Telemachus struck Amphimidon, and the swineherd, Eumaeus, hit Polybus. The cattle herder, Philetius, struck Cytisippus in the chest, and then cried these words, shouting about the body. "Son of Polytherses, you love to jeer, but don't yield any more to your stupidity and boast so much.

• 24:15Liv Albert?

  Leave that sort of bragging to the gods, for they are far more powerful than you. This is your guest-gift, something to pay back the ox-hoof you gave godlike Odysseus, back when he was a beggar in his own home." That's what the herder of the bent-horned cattle said. At close range, Odysseus wounded Demastor's son with his long spear, and Telemachus managed to hit Leocritus, son of Ebonor. He struck him with his spear right in the groin, and drove the bronze point right through his body. Leocritus fell forward, his entire face and forehead hammering the ground. Athena held up her man destroying Aegis from high up in the roof. The suitors' minds panicked, and they fled through the hall like a herd of cattle, when

• 25:00Liv Albert?

  a vicious gadfly goads them to stampede, once spring season starts and days begin to lengthen. "Just as falcons with hooked talons and curving beaks fly down from the mountains, chasing birds, driving them well below the clouds, as they swoop along the plain, then pounce on them and kill. For there is no defense, no flying away, while men get pleasure from the chase." That's how Odysseus and his men pursued the suitors and struck them down, one by one, all through the hall. As their heads were smashed in, horrific cries arose, and the whole floor in the hall was awash with blood. Then Lyates ran out, grabbed Odysseus's knee, and begged him.

• 25:45Liv Albert?

  His words had wings. "Odysseus, I implore you at your knee, respect me and have pity. I tell you, I've never injured a single woman in these halls by saying or doing something reckless. Instead, I tried to stop the other suitors when they did those things. They did not listen or restrain their hands from acting badly. So their own wickedness now brings about their wretched fate. Among them, I'm a prophet who has done no wrong, and yet I will lie dead, since there's no future thanks for one's good deeds." Shrewd Odysseus glared at him and answered. "If, in fact, you claim to be a prophet with these men, no doubt here in these halls you've often prayed that my goal of sweet return would stay unrealized, so my dear

• 26:29Liv Albert?

  wife could go back to your own home and bear you children. That's why you won't escape a bitter death." As he said this, Odysseus picked up in his fist a sword that lay nearby. Agoleus had dropped it and left it on the ground when he was killed. With it, Odysseus struck Lyates right across his neck. His head was rolling in the dust as he was speaking. And then the minstrel, Phemias, son of Terpeus, who had been compelled to sing before the suitors, attempted to evade his own disastrous fate. He stood, holding his clear-toned lyre by the side door, his mind divided. Should he slip out from the hall and take a seat close to the altar of great Zeus, god

• 27:10Liv Albert?

  of the courtyard, where Laertes and Odysseus had burned many thighs from sacrificial oxen? Or should he rush up to Odysseus's knee and beg him for his life? As his mind thought it through, the latter course of action seemed the better choice, to clasp the knee of Laertes's son, Odysseus. He set down the hollow lyre, left it on the ground between the mixing-bowl and silver-studded chair, rushed out in person to clasp Odysseus's knee, and addressed him with this plea — his words had wings. "I implore you, Odysseus, show respect and pity. There'll be sorrow for you later if you kill me, a minstrel, for I sing to gods and men. I am self-taught. The god has planted in my heart all kinds of songs, and I'm good enough to sing before

• 27:54Liv Albert?

  you, as to a god. Don't be too eager, then, to cut my throat. Your son, Telemachus, could tell you that it wasn't my desire, nor did I need to spend time at your house singing for the suitors at their banquets. But their greater power and their numbers brought me here by force." As Phemias said this, royal Telemachus, who was standing near him, heard his words and spoke up, calling to his father. "Hold on. Don't let your sword injure this man. He is innocent. We should save Medon, too, the herald, who always looked out for me inside the house when I was still a child, unless Philetius has killed him, or the swineherd, or he ran into you when you're on a rampage in the hall." Telemachus spoke. Medon, whose mind was clever, heard him, for he was cowering beneath a chair, his skin

• 28:39Liv Albert?

  covered by a new-flayed oxhide, trying to escape his own black fate. He quickly jumped out from underneath the chair, threw aside the oxhide, rushed to clasp Telemachus's knee, and begged. His words had wings. "Here I am, my friend, stop. Tell your father to restrain himself, in case, as he exults in his great strength, he slaughters me with that sharp bronze of his, in his fury with the suitors. Those men who consumed his goods in his own hall, those fools who did not honor you at all." Resourceful Odysseus then smiled at him and said, "Don't worry. This man here has saved your life. He's rescued you, so you know in your heart, and he can tell someone else how doing good is preferable by far to acting badly.

• 29:24Liv Albert?

  But move out of the hall and sit outside in the yard, some distance from the killing. You and the minstrel with so many songs, until I finish all I need to do." After Odysseus spoke, the two men went away, outside the hall, and sat down there by the altar of great Zeus, peering around in all directions, always thinking that they might be killed.

• 29:59Liv Albert?

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• 30:43Liv Albert?

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• 31:28Liv Albert?

  Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers, or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was me. Let's talk about myths, baby. It's the best way to support the show.

• 32:04Liv Albert?

  Okay, nerds. Pause for my little context moment in between ads. These are so much fun. That is one thing, just, this is my ADHD brain. You all just get to listen. From what I was talking about earlier on, you know, whether I should be rereading the Iliad to all of you, I think that if, you know, I've been hearing from everyone, basically, that you all really enjoy this extra element of this Odyssey reading. I mean, one, the translation itself is just like literally so much easier to understand, which is a huge amount of why I want to read the Iliad to you all. Also, there's just like something I haven't totally officially announced yet, but it's like pretty, pretty official, and it's pretty

• 32:47Liv Albert?

  obvious to guess what that might be in, given the recent book I just released. And, you know, like, why would I want to read the Iliad again? Ha, gee, I wonder. But specifically, I would really love to read the Iliad again, this particularly, you know, much more understandable translation by Ian Johnston, but also with this extra element of being able to answer questions from you all, and also just to read your questions, because it really allows me to have a better idea, you know, of like what you want to know, and what you want to hear, and just generally what questions people are asking. I've been in this so long that like, there's way too much that lives inside my head, and I have lost a lot of the ability to tell what is like normal or not normal knowledge of Greek myth. And so

• 33:29Liv Albert?

  I would really love that element. All to say, I don't know, again, tell me if you want me to read the Iliad to you all. And by that, I mean, please, please tell me that, because I really want to reread the Iliad to you all next. And I will also say, because taking this pause, I went and checked ahead on, you know, what the last two books are all about. There are only 24 books in the Odyssey. And both of these last books are a little shorter, and they're also like quite, well, all to say, they link up well together. So this episode is just going to be this, this book 22. And then next week, we will do, or next reading episode, rather, we will do the last two books of this. Oh,

• 34:11Liv Albert?

  my God, we've gotten through it so quickly. I'm so obsessed. Anyway, back to your questions, because a couple of you left really good ones on Spotify. Okay, the first question is from a user called Nikki. And admittedly, I think I've kind of tried to answer this question before, but I can see why it's come up again. And I did a little more digging this time, so I'm gonna just answer it again. But Nikki says, "Hi, Liv. Why do so many words have wings? I understand generally what the phrase is saying, but I haven't really heard this phrase before. Is it a common phrase in Homer?" So, yes. And thank you, Nikki, for asking, because this is something I have also, like, I've, I know

• 34:53Liv Albert?

  this phrase, but I do think that this particular translation just uses it in a way that does make it stand out a little bit more. This translation, I've noticed, I think it's fairly literal. I say that because it is definitely like longer than I'm, than say, like the Emily Wilson, which is just the one that I've read so many more times. And because Emily Wilson was writing in iambic pentameter, because her intention was to recreate the like meter and the more performance nature of Homer, hers ends up a little shorter

• 35:32Liv Albert?

  because of that. And I, based on my interpretation, I think that Johnston's translation is much more about just like straight up making it an English translation for, for students to read, which I really appreciate as well, just as like a different thing. And so like, I've talked about this in a different like Q and A bit, but it is definitely wordier. And so I think that's partially why this like, his words had wings bit becomes more obvious. I think it's also that phrasing in English, like his words had wings. Again, that, that makes me think that this is a more literal translation, and that's why it's like repeated all the time, as opposed to trying to form it in like different ways.

• 36:16Liv Albert?

  All to say, like, I think often in translations, it's more just like winged words, like he spoke with winged words, other than, other than like, his words had wings, which I think is just like very literal translation of these words. And I was curious about this because it is quite the phrase. And while I recognized it, I wasn't, you know, quite as familiar with the background. So I went and looked it up, and basically, it seems like the, the Greek phrase is, okay, this is me trying to pronounce it in Greek, and also see a very small accent mark. But I think it's, okay, I think it's epea, patero

• 37:00Liv Albert?

  epta, patero epta. So, yes, it, and it is, it does appear to be like a distinctly Homeric phrase, and like very often used by Homer. I have a feeling that when I get into the Johnston translation of the Iliad, we will also notice it a lot. And so, I mean, I think it's hard. I think it's, it's really just us trying to put our modern understanding of literature onto the ancient. That's why it becomes so like jarring and a bit confusing, because we just wouldn't kind of use these phrases so repeatedly. But you have to remember

• 37:39Liv Albert?

  when it comes to this stuff, that this was meant to be sung by someone. And, I mean, think about how long I've been reading this to you all, right? Like, every, you know, this is hours long. If, if someone was actually reciting the poem of the Odyssey, the song of the Odyssey, like the original format of, you know, a bard traveling around and singing this song, like, the whole of this Odyssey, what we consider the Odyssey now, would take like, probably 10 to 15 hours, I would imagine. Like, the Greek is also, it's, Greek has, it uses, I would say, fewer words than English. Like, basically, their

• 38:24Liv Albert?

  words like mean more things, so you need fewer words, if that makes sense. But I think the length would still be, you know, like at least 10 plus hours. So you have to think- These probably wouldn't have been performed like all in one night or all in one run like that would be wild as someone who's you know read these for like two hours straight and my voice starts to go like granted I'm not a singer but you know it would be that would be very long so instead you have to imagine that they were probably split up maybe into chunks or like there were just sections that a poet would perform for like a few hours at a banquet or something right and when you think about it that way it becomes a little less like okay

• 39:08Liv Albert?

  this is like excessively repeated and you have to think of it more in line with the fact that it was not only a poem but a song so think about how often the songs we listen to repeat the same phrases right like it's sort of the nature of singing and you know rhyming structure meter all of these things really lend themselves to repetition in this way and that's why you'll find so many different phrases that are repeated it you know so often this also makes me think of you know rosy fingered dawn like that while it does come in a couple different formats like that is the same thing being said over and over right so I mean yeah I think I

• 39:53Liv Albert?

  think I've kind of gotten across the the general point that like on a really surface level winged words or his words had wings really is just kind of referring to someone speaking intensely or like you know resolutely like they're speaking with intention there you know maybe there's some divine nature in these words like it's meant to convey importance and overall like

• 40:24Liv Albert?

  you know intensity there's a word I'm not finding here because perimenopause is cool but it's generally meant to convey you know a kind of gravitas to the words being spoken but it's still you know it really it does kind of end up sounding so jarring in English but I think it's really a matter of yeah like this translation particularly you know using it in the same kind of form in English over and over rather than picking some variations which is just like a translator choice I have a feeling that these translations were done you know fairly quickly not something I could do but like I have a feeling that they're really very intentional and they're they're meant to just be like a very readable accessible version you know and I love

• 41:09Liv Albert?

  that I think that's incredible but it also does kind of just kind of lead to these kind of questions about this sort of excessive repetition but yeah I think it's just really the nature of like Homeric performance and you have to think about these also as ways of not necessarily like pneumatic devices which by the way comes from the word namosini picture it pneumatic like N M or rather MN anyway pneumatic namosini I'm just a nerd but it's not necessarily like a pneumatic device of remembering but it's more about like conveying a sort of like it's like a chorus right like a refrain like it's just these things like in a song right that are like

• 41:53Liv Albert?

  another kind of reminder put you into the place remind remember who is speaking it also they also could be partially a means of conveying dialogue on the simplest level right you have to remember also that ancient Greek particularly anything this old though of course like the formats that survive of the Odyssey are like you know not even a tiny bit this old but ancient Greek in this original form did not have any kind of punctuation they didn't even have spaces between the letters so you know having this phrase that is conveying that someone important is about to

• 42:37Liv Albert?

  speak is also just in a sense like just a way of denoting dialogue it's like quotation marks almost you know and so you just have to think about it in these kind of different formats it's so it's both fascinating and just like kind of mind boggling right to try to conceptualize these things that are so inherently tied to a culture that we just cannot fully understand and so trying to understand some of those elements is just it's very jarring it's very odd in our modern parlance because it's just a matter of like out we are culturally so different that we don't often have you know ways to fully understand how these kinds of things worked but I think it's so fascinating

• 43:18Liv Albert?

  and from like an nerdy etymology moment I have to break down the word a little bit or the phrase a little bit more so it remember it's epia potato epta I'm gonna say that again because it's awkward epia potato epta and so epia is from the word epos which means something spoken this is all from Wikipedia by the way something spoken like a song speech story epos think I mean you can think epilogue like but also which is like log log is coming from logos so like word who maybe

• 43:59Liv Albert?

  not maybe epi is actually after ignore that so I'm gonna keep that in because that this is how my Greek language like brain works but no think of like epoed or like anyway it's coming from these these phrases like this something spoken song speech story the really real the real reason I wanted to break this down is because of the second word because it's has a form that I am currently obsessed with because I just think it's so dorky so the second word remember is

• 44:35Liv Albert?

  potato epta oh potato enta I've been reading this as a P it's not it's not a P potato potato enta you know it's a fun thing that my brain does at this point because I can generally like physically read slash pronounce Greek even if I don't understand it but like I can like I know the alphabet is that I end up only trying to pronounce the Greek and then I don't read the fact that it's literally written in an English transliteration next to it and I could have easily seen that it's potato enta instead of trying to pronounce the Greek in any case potato is what I really want you all to hear because it's coming back to I forget which episode I told this story

• 45:18Liv Albert?

  but it is coming back to this again silly story about my brain currently which is almost certainly autistic because gosh the evidence is all there but that I because I read so much ancient Greek even though I don't fully understand it but because I physically see it so much and I read it so much and I love the pronunciation of ancient Greek so much I can no longer automatically like read a silent letter in an English word that I know is based on a Greek word because like particularly like again think of mnemonic the M is silent it is technically like mnemonic

• 45:58Liv Albert?

  mnemonic which is crazy in English and so the same goes for peteron which is where we get pterodactyl I did it I didn't even mean to it's you see you see pterodactyl it's where we get pterodactyl I'm just gonna do it there are no silent P but in English they're like it's silent that's so weird but in Greek it's like no no is a sound it's fine it's two letters peteron means feathered or winged that's why pterodactyl means literally like winged fingers

• 46:37Liv Albert?

  dactyl is means fingers or like yeah fingers are fingers so it means winged fingers and so in this case this potato enta is this generally like in in Wikipedia here it says you know it's from peteron feather winged with is as a suffix with the sense of being full of tending to or thoroughly possessing a quality so his words had wings

• 47:10Liv Albert?

  But it is just generally, this is really just me talking about how much I love the PT sound specifically in Greek and also just the word for feather or wings. Um, because it's delightful, pteron, just like winged fingers. Uh, it was that my whole entire point with that etymology, like kind of, yeah, I just really, I really enjoy that. And I hope that otherwise my explanation helped. It's one of those things that again, like, I just don't think we'll fully ever understand. But oh, boy, isn't it fun to try. Okay. I have one more question. That's also great. And then we will get back to the end of this. Well, there's more slaughter still to come. This is the goriest and most violent

• 47:54Liv Albert?

  of all of the books. So before that, one more question. This other one comes from a user called Sunny Lord, who says, not episode specific, but what's the deal with the mixing bowls? They keep being mentioned in both the context of feasts and gift giving. Is there something more to it? Is it, or is it just a symbol of status? Also, is it just me or did the description of Telemachus and the son of Nestor a few episodes ago seem a little fruity? Hmm. Side eye. Odysseus doing a little old man striptease for the suitors earlier and then doing what he does next cracks me up more than it should. Anyway, great episode. Thank you. Me too. One thing I was disappointed is that this translation does not use the word naked. But I need you all to remember that the very top of this episode that I've been reading,

• 48:38Liv Albert?

  like when Odysseus, you know, he strings the bow, right? And he's about to take everyone out. He's like, look at me. It's Odysseus. He literally rips off all of his clothing, jumps on a table naked and just starts shooting everyone. And God, if that doesn't make it more entertaining than, than, you know, at least it brings up a bit of levity to the otherwise horror and like the massacre that he is about to commit. You're like, it's very much like the Olympics, like he does it naked because men in ancient Greece.

• 49:14Liv Albert?

  Well, they were incredibly homoerotic. Let's be frank, and they loved to do everything with other dudes naked. They love to rassle naked. They love to do everything with other men naked. No women needed. Thank you very much. And that brings me directly to, and I will get to the first question about the mixing bowls, which is actually practical. But I, that does bring me to your second question. The comment about Telemachus and Nestor's son, Pisistratus. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. And I think that this is a matter of like so many of these elements from ancient Greek culture, like you are definitely picking up on this. Um, this just kind of relationship that a lot of the men seem to have with other men.

• 49:53Liv Albert?

  The, the male friendships are, like, I want to say they're healthier because they're really much more based in like emotion and, um, like being really like vulnerable with your friends and like, you know, but they were also inherently tied with misogyny in that like, they were like, women are the worst. Don't be near them. Hang with your boys instead. So, you know, it's tough, but there is absolutely that kind of element. And it reminds me a little of like Achilles and Patroclus even like, it, it reminds me also of Odysseus and Menelaus. Um, I think you really get that sense from Menelaus when

• 50:36Liv Albert?

  he's talking to Telemachus that like, he and Odysseus also have like a very, very close friendship. Now, I mean, am I, you know, saying that the implication is that all of these dudes were fucking each other? Not necessarily. Could they be? Absolutely. They did not consider that to be like any kind of issue, right? I mean, especially if you're looking back all this way back. Of course, later in the ancient Greek period, we get the issues with pederasty and it usually being like an age difference relationship. And there's definitely like some really yuck power dynamic consensus stuff when it comes to pederasty. But in this kind of context, when we have these men who are the same age and have these like ridiculously close friendships, I really think this is, I mean, if you kind

• 51:18Liv Albert?

  of just set aside the fact that it's based a little bit in how much nobody wanted to be around women and they wanted to convince us that women were like completely evil, terrible creatures, ala Hesiod. Um, beyond that, I really do think that men had these like very healthy, I would say relationships with each other. They're very tight. Um, they're very emotional. They really love each other very openly. And I mean, that part is quite refreshing and nice. Like they're really open about showing their emotions and being vulnerable and talking about how much they love their bros, you know? And the expectation was always that they had to marry a woman, but gosh, if they weren't allowed to love their bros. And so while

• 52:02Liv Albert?

  it's not explicit at all, and I actually haven't really like heard inklings about Telemachus and Pisistratus as that kind of relationship, I see what you're seeing and I want to acknowledge it. Now down to the mixing bowls. Which I, I will get back to the reading. Honestly, this works really well that I'm only reading this one book because I had such great questions to answer. But the mixing bowls is quite interesting. It's sort of a little of everything that you were picking up on there. Um, it is, so mixing bowls appear very much often as like guest gifts, absolutely. But they also were appearing a lot in the banquet scenes and that is a little bit of everything, I think. Um, the banquet scenes broadly, like I've had them described by,

• 52:46Liv Albert?

  um, past guest on the show, Flint Dibble, um, who studies like, uh, he studies like animal bones in antiquity, very specifically. There's a better word for it, but basically he described some of these banqueting scenes as like food porn, as, you know, probably when this story was being fully developed, we're talking about a time when there was a lot of scarcity. And so I think that this is, it kind of reminds me that I, like, I'm thinking of, um, Hook and the Lost Boys in the movie Hook, um, for the millennials among us, how they like invent food and they have like a whole food fight with this like fake food that they're just like dreaming about because they don't have food, right?

• 53:29Liv Albert?

  And, um, I haven't seen Hook in like 30 years, so forgive me if that's totally wrong. But I think it is coming a little bit from that. You get these like really intricate and really like excessive banqueting scenes, I think as almost like a, just an ode to a better time, maybe, or just as also like, uh, this really clear implication of the wealth of these people, but also on a really practical level, they were using mixing bowls all the time. So it like, it is appearing as like a guest gift because it's like a large piece of in or, uh, of ornately decorated pottery that you could gift someone. And

• 54:11Liv Albert?

  so it's just generally a status symbol, but it's also a practical status symbol. So as you know, as we all know very well, the ancient Greeks drank wine. They drank wine almost exclusively. It's really wacky how much wine they drank. However, the wine they drank was mixed with water and it was mixed with water in various different like ratios. Um, and it was mixed in mixing bowls. And so from a really practical perspective, a mixing bowl is always going to appear in a banquet because they're always detailed, both from, for this like kind of maybe food porn element, but also just as an element of the poetic nature. We get these like very detailed scenes. It's, it's just

• 54:55Liv Albert?

  sort of a trope almost of, of these types of epics. But the mixing bowls specifically are this very practical item that would have been used in like every one of these settings because you're mixing wine with water and you're not just like having one mixing bowl, which has like watered wine. It depending on the scenario, you're having like multiple different mixing bowls with wine with varying amounts of water to wine ratio. Um, and so it like from the, yeah, very practically like mixing bowls are just used all the time. You're needing multiple because you have different wine with different amounts of water or, you know, different qualities of wine with water, what all of these, whatever these, all of the different

• 55:39Liv Albert?

  amounts depending on the banquet. But from a practical perspective, they're very common. I would say too, that, you know, in terms of like, this is not necessarily Bronze Age because the pottery changes, obviously, but in later, like archaic and classical pottery, i.e. the kind of pottery that you really picture when you're thinking about Greek pottery. Um, the, the piece in general is typically called a crater. So a crater is what they used in that later period, at least also probably earlier, but I'm just less clear. So that's why I'm stating that. But that's what they use to mix wine with water. They're stunning. You should look up the Odysseus and the Sirens crater

• 56:20Liv Albert?

  because it is one of the most famous craters ever. God, if that's not a crater, that would be embarrassing, but it's in the British museum. Don't tell me if it's not a crater. Uh, but anyway, they're, they're just this specific type. And so while we're not seeing the word crater, that is often what it is, like K R A T E R. That's typically what that would be. And it is, yeah, like a gift, uh, status symbol because they're often like richly decorated, richly painted, right? So it can, they just love to heap gifts on people. There's all so much different pottery and all this, but a crater specifically as a mixing bowl is generally something that would be like very commonly used, very commonly set out during a banquet, like you show off in front of

• 57:02Liv Albert?

  your guests. So it's really just like a very practical gift, essentially. Um, but there is a really fun anecdote when it comes to this idea of mixing wine and craters that I want to share. And this is fun. So, extra thanks to this person because you've given me a chance to quote from one of my own books because I used this anecdote in my Greek Myth Cocktail Book, naturally. So, I just want to read a bit of my own book. I said, "According to a fragment of a play by Eubolos, Dionysus describes the ideal symposium as featuring

• 57:45Liv Albert?

  three craters of mixed wine. The first of the evening was mixed with the most water, making it the least alcoholic, and the craters of mixed wine steadily increased in alcohol content for use through the night's progression." But he had even more to say about the art of drinking. Okay. "Three craters of wine with increasing alcohol was the perfect number. Anywhere beyond that and you're asking for trouble. Eubolos depicts Dionysus as declaring craters four through 10 as beginning with hubris and finishing with lots of vomit. So, listen to Dionysus through Eubolos and stop while you're ahead." I decided to read that part because it's clever and I wrote it. But essentially, that's the idea, right? So,

• 58:29Liv Albert?

  you're having, you're having more than one crater. The first crater has the most water to wine. Great. It's for starting at the night while you're eating. It's really mild wine, right? You're not going to get too drunk. And then it steadily increases the amount of wine in your crater as the night goes on. But you need so many different craters. You need so many mixing bowls. So that you can end up hammered as all hell and puking everywhere, which the Greeks did talk about a lot. And that's when there's just too much wine and not enough water in your mixing bowl. Gods, thank you for those questions. They truly were joyful.

• 1:00:07Liv Albert?

  "After Odysseus spoke, the two men went away outside the great hall and sat down there by the altar of great Zeus, peering in all directions, always thinking that they might be killed. Odysseus then began to search the house to check if anyone was hiding there, still alive, trying to escape his own murky fate. But every man he looked at, and there were many, had fallen in blood and dust like fish, which, in the meshes of a net, sailors have pulled from the gray sea up on the curving beach, lying piled up on the sand, longing for sea waves, while the bright sun drains away their life. That is how the suitors were

• 1:00:47Liv Albert?

  heaped up, piled on one another. Resourceful Odysseus then said to Telemachus, 'Telemachus, go and call the nurse here, Euriclia, so I can speak to her. Something's on my mind I want to tell her.' After Odysseus spoke, Telemachus obeyed what his father said. He shook the door and called to Euriclia, saying, 'Get up, old woman, born many years ago, the one in charge of female household servants in our home. Come on out. My father's calling for you. He has something in mind and wants to talk.' He spoke, but Euriclia's words could find no wings. She opened up the door of the well-furnished hall and came out. Telemachus went first and led the way. There she found Odysseus with the bodies of the dead, spattered

• 1:01:31Liv Albert?

  with gore and blood, like a lion moving on from gorging on a farmyard ox, his entire chest and both sides of his muzzle caked with fresh spilled blood. A terrifying sight. That's how Odysseus looked, with blood-stained feet and upper arms. Euriclia, once she saw the bodies and huge amounts of blood, was ready to cry out for joy now that she'd seen such a mighty act. But Odysseus held her back and checked her eagerness. He challenged her and said, his words had wings, 'Old woman, you can rejoice in your own heart, but don't cry aloud. Restrain yourself, for it's a sacrilege to boast above the bodies of the slain. Divine fate and their own reckless actions have killed these men, who failed

• 1:02:15Liv Albert?

  to honor any man on earth who came among them, bad or good. And so through their depravity, they've met an evil fate. But come now, tell me about the women in these halls, the ones who disrespect me and the ones who bear no blame.' His dear nurse Euriclia then answered him and said, 'All right, my child. I'll tell you the truth. In these halls of yours, there are fifty female servants, women we have taught to carry out their duties, to comb out wool and bear their slavery. Of these, twelve women in all have acted without a sense of shame and no respect for me or even Penelope. Telemachus has only just grown up. His mother hasn't yet let him control our female servants. But come, let's go now

• 1:02:59Liv Albert?

  to that bright upstairs room and tell your wife some god has made her sleep.' Resourceful Odysseus then answered her and said, 'Don't wake her up, not yet. Those women who before all this behaved so badly, tell them to come here.' Once he said this, the old woman went through the house to tell the slaves the news and to urge them to appear. Odysseus then summoned Telemachus, together with Eumaeus and Philetius. He spoke to them, his words had wings. 'You three men, start carrying these corpses outside now, then punish those shameless servant women. Have them clean these splendid chairs and tables and wipe them with sponges soaked in water. Once you've put the entire house in order, then take

• 1:03:43Liv Albert?

  those servants from the well-built hall to a spot outside, behind the roundhouse and the sturdy courtyard wall, and kill them. Slash them with long swords until life is gone from all of them, and they cannot recall Aphrodite and how they loved the suitors when they enjoyed sex with them in secret.' Odysseus spoke. The crowd of women servants came, wailing plaintively and shedding many tears. First, they gathered up the bodies of the dead and laid the corpses out beneath the portico, leaning them on one another in the well-fenced yard. Odysseus himself told them what they had to do and hurried on the work. The women were compelled to carry out the dead. Once that was done, they

• 1:04:27Liv Albert?

  cleaned the splendid chairs and tables, wiping off the gore with porous sponges soaked in water. Telemachus, along with Philetius and Eumaeus, with shovels scraped the floor inside the well-built hall, and women took the dirt and threw it in the yard. Once they had restored due order in the hall, they led the servant women from the sturdy home to a place between the courtyard wall and roundhouse, herding those household slaves into a narrow space where there was no way to escape. Shrewd Telemachus began by speaking to the others. 'I don't want to take these women's lives with a clean death. They poured insults on

• 1:05:08Liv Albert?

  my head, on my mother, and were always sleeping with the suitors.' He spoke, then tied the cable of a dark, proud ship to a large pillar, through one end above the roundhouse, then pulled it taut and high so that no woman's foot could reach the ground. Just as doves or long-winged thrushes charge into a snare set in a thicket as they seek their roosting place, only to find they have been welcomed by a dreadful bed, that is how those women stood all in a row, with nooses fixed around their necks, so they might have a pitiful

• 1:05:46Liv Albert?

  death. For some time, their feet kept twitching, but that did not last long. Then they brought Melanthius out through the doorway into the yard. With pitiless bronze, they sliced off his nose and ears, then ripped off his cock and balls as raw meat for dogs to eat, and in their fury hacked off his hands and feet. After they'd done that, they washed their hands and feet and went inside the house, returning to Odysseus. Their work was finished. But he called Euriclia, his dear nurse. 'Old woman, bring sulfur here to purify the house and fetch me fire so I can purge the hall. Ask Penelope to come

• 1:06:31Liv Albert?

  here with her slaves and get the women in the house as well.' His dear nurse Euriclia answered him. 'My child, what you say is all well and good, but come, I'll fetch you clothing, a cloak and tunic, so you don't stand like this in your own hall with nothing but rags on your wide shoulders. That would be the cause of some dishonor.' Resourceful Odysseus then answered her and said, 'Yes, but first make me a fire in the hall.' Dear nurse Euriclia then followed what he said. She brought fire and sulfur, so Lord Odysseus purged the house and yard completely. Euriclia went back through Odysseus's splendid home to tell the women what had happened and to order them to reappear. They all came out,

• 1:07:16Liv Albert?

  holding torches and gathered around Odysseus, embracing him. They clasped and kissed his head, his hands, his shoulders, in loving welcome. A joyful longing seized him to sigh and weep, for in his heart he knew them all.

• 1:07:46Liv Albert?

  Oh, sorry, there wasn't that much left after the little ad break, but it was just, it was too good a spot. And also, though, I did forget that the end would just, just be more horrors, just the, just the horror of the horror. Um, yeah. Um, it's really fucked up that they're just like, no, these women were forced by the suitors. They were forced, they're enslaved. Let's kill them anyway. And then Odysseus is like, give them a clean death. And Telemachus is like, nah, I'm gonna be the worst I can possibly be.

• 1:08:22Liv Albert?

  Oh, my God. And then what they do to Melanthus, again, an enslaved man. But I guess this is again, this is just something that I'll never be able to fully comprehend, because it's just, yep. Anyway, the entire concept of just having enslaved people that are just like treated like that. It's just, it's fucked. It's fucked. And I do think it's really important to us to really dwell on that, because we often just give this world such a pass on enslavement generally in the process of, of enslaving people. And like, it's just like, ah. Um, so yeah, I just want

• 1:09:06Liv Albert?

  to read that very intentionally. And it is very dark. It really is. And I mean, I'm glad it's just 12 of the women, I guess, because they're like, oh, 50 work here. So I guess 38 got to live. But like, wow, wow. And I also have to say, because it is just so clear. Um, I mean, it's very clear in the ancient Greek, to my knowledge, that like, these women were forced, they were forced by the suitors. I mean, regardless of whether the word, like, force is used, or some variant of it, right? Like, they're enslaved, they do not have a choice. What are they gonna do? Say no to these men when women have absolutely no power in the face of a man? Like, what are

• 1:09:45Liv Albert?

  they gonna do? Like, literally. Um, and but regardless, like, you know, this is such a horrific abuse of power on Telemachus's part. Like, it's very important that you also like, recognize, like, Telemachus chose to do that. Like, Odysseus asking for him to kill them with swords is his way of killing them almost like a warrior, like, killing them in the same way that the suitors were killed. It gives them a kind of honor in death that Telemachus is really explicitly taking away. He doesn't want to give them that. He doesn't want to kill them like a warrior would be killed. He wants to kill them in a way that, in ancient Greek specifically, was very often

• 1:10:25Liv Albert?

  seen as like, a woman's death. It was, like, specifically hanging, like, there's, there's a lot of women who kill themselves by hanging in Greek myth. Jocasta is the most famous one that comes to mind, Oedipus's mother. Um, that's very much a thing. It's a, it's a, it's meant to be like, a really disgraceful death. It's like silencing yourself, it's cutting off your, like, I mean, you're, it's cutting off everything, right? Like, but it's, it's specifically cutting off your ability to speak. It's like, it's just meant to be this incredibly shameful way to go. And Telemachus is really clear, like, this is his call, and that's how he wants to do it. And

• 1:11:07Liv Albert?

  I say this because Christopher Nolan was like, nah, let's make Melantho, this woman who has been forced by the suitors, let's make her nefarious, like, seemingly plotting against Penelope, let's, like, not really ever use the word slave, like, yeah, I mean, it's just me talking again about how Christopher Nolan's take on the Odyssey was like, distinctly misogynist, and somehow even more misogynist than Greek myth. Um, the way he handled Melantho was really gross. And, yep, I needed to say that. But also generally, like, the way that Melantho and Melanthus are handled

• 1:11:51Liv Albert?

  in this is really fucked. You know, they are clearly meant to serve this trope as like, bad slaves, as compared to Eumaeus and Philetius, who are like, the good slaves. But it's really wild. And then the fact that the first half of their name means something related to like, black or dark, is its own whole thing. Like, again, I'm not implying skin tone here, but in terms of like, the way that the author is meant to convey, like, a darkness in their hearts, these like explicitly enslaved people, it's really fucked up. It's really fucked up. And I think it's a really important reminder that that the ancient world was fucked up. And I think we so often are just like, la da da da da, myths and happiness. Um, and Christopher Nolan really drilled that down. He was like, we're never gonna talk about how most of these people

• 1:12:36Liv Albert?

  are enslaved. Um, and we're just gonna make the woman absolutely, uh, on the side of the suitors, and absolutely colluding with them against Penelope. So it'll be easier when she dies. Like, it's just, it's fucked. I also think, not even remembering, right? I think there's like, I think the way that Melantho is killed is really fucked up, but it happens towards the end. And honestly, I was so like, taken aback by that movie, and so kind of rocked thoroughly by all of his terrible misogyny, that I don't remember. I honestly don't remember. I like, blacked out the end of that movie in a way that I look back and I'm like, I, I, I don't remember what happened. Um, people have said it to me, and I'm like, haha, that's, that's, I'm drawing a blank. So all to say, I mean, there's also more that I'm not even remembering. But that's

• 1:13:19Liv Albert?

  enough for this episode. Next time, we're gonna read the last two books, because they're both short. And it, they're fascinating. I can't wait for you to hear the last one. The last book of the Odyssey is so wacky. Um, yeah, it's just, it's wacky, because it turns out that if you massacre this many people, there's really no one that can get you out of it, except the gods. And that's what we're about to witness. Uh, but until then, thank you all so fucking much. I love that I get to do this. Please tell me how much you'd love for me to read the Iliad next, because I really want to read the Iliad next and answer these questions. And oh, my gosh, wouldn't that be so fun, though? Like, wouldn't that be so fun? Tell me how bad you want to hear

• 1:14:01Liv Albert?

  it, please. And thank you. I love you all. Let's talk about Miss Baby, Baby. I'm not gonna redo that one. It's been a minute. Let's talk about Miss, I am gonna redo it. That'll happen naturally. I'm keeping it in. Let's talk about Miss Baby is written and produced by me, Liv Albert, Michaela Pankow, wishes the Hermes to my Olympians, the incredible producer. The podcast is part of the Memory Collective Podcast Network. The word mnemonic, memory device, comes from mnemony for memory. Uh, and, I don't know, uh, that's probably it. The world's on fire. Um, but, you know, at least we still have raging feminists talking about mythology, right?

• 1:14:42Liv Albert?

  Right? And by that, I mean, at least I still have the ability to rage about feminist issues and misogyny in Greek mythology. Anyway, fingers crossed for the orange man to die soon. Maybe that'll be how I end episodes for a little while. Fingers crossed. I am Liv, and I love this shit. I would love it more without the terror in chief. Oh, by the way, bonus, it's Lake Ontario, and maybe he just needs to jump in it.

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