#2260 - Lex Fridman

Lex Fridman is a computer scientist and researcher in the field of artificial intelligence and robotics, and host of the Lex Fridman Podcast. https://youtube.com/lexfridman Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT) or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD).21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min. $5 bet. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: dkng.co/dk-offer-terms. Ends 2/9/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:13Joe Rogan?

  So, Jamie, what was your question?

• 0:17Speaker 02

  It was to Lex, but it was really like, because he, I wouldn't know.

• 0:21Joe Rogan?

  Hardcore science question.

• 0:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 0:23Speaker 02

  Based on physics.

• 0:24Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 0:25Speaker 02

  In theory, if you were in space and you maybe ejaculated, is it possible that the ejaculate would propel you backwards? Like send you, you know, like is it propulsion? Is there enough power in there to propel you?

• 0:39Speaker 03

  There's only one way to find out.

• 0:40Joe Rogan?

  Depends on how long you hold it in for, right? Like if you didn't jerk off for like four months and then you had like the motherload.

• 0:49Speaker 02

  Still, I mean, you need something to go one way, so you go the other way.

• 0:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 0:53Speaker 02

  And Lex had an answer, but I don't know.

• 0:54Joe Rogan?

  What's the answer?

• 0:55Speaker 03

  What?

• 0:56Speaker 02

  Well, he had a thought, I guess.

• 0:57Joe Rogan?

  What if you blow out at the same time?

• 1:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:03Speaker 03

  I think in space, the like the biodynamics of the liquids is different.

• 1:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:08Speaker 03

  I think there's, it's actually difficult to have sex in space and to get people pregnant in space.

• 1:14Joe Rogan?

  Has anybody ever gotten pregnant on the space station? Are they allowed even to have sex?

• 1:18Speaker 03

  No, nobody has officially had sex in space.

• 1:21Joe Rogan?

  Officially?

• 1:22Speaker 03

  Officially, but unofficially, of course, people have tried.

• 1:24Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if they have. I mean, how monitored are they?

• 1:27Speaker 03

  There is a Wikipedia page about sex in space, and it's actually pretty detailed.

• 1:32Joe Rogan?

  But it's Wikipedia, so you know it's half bullshit.

• 1:35Speaker 03

  There's citations. I encourage people to look into it, read in detail. I mean, it's a serious problem. If you want to, you know, colonize space, you probably want to have a lot of sex and

• 1:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:47Speaker 03

  get pregnant and have kids and...

• 1:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, don't you think they'll develop some sort of jet, gravity generating machines?

• 1:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely, you have to. Like Jeff Bezos talks about this a lot.

• 1:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:57Speaker 03

  Like how you create artificial gravity in space. Because for, for Jeff Bezos, the likely way to colonize space is to have space stations. Elon is more focused on colonizing planets, Mars.

• 2:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10Speaker 03

  So, both, both are obviously going to be necessary, and you got, need to have gravity in order to get laid.

• 2:17Joe Rogan?

  Bro, the first people that make that trip, ooh.

• 2:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, Jamie was saying he wants to go.

• 2:24Speaker 02

  I mean, I'm not that trip, but yeah, a trip.

• 2:27Joe Rogan?

  You go eventually?

• 2:29Speaker 02

  Why not?

• 2:29Joe Rogan?

  Oh dude, why? What if you die out there?

• 2:32Speaker 02

  Okay, you're gonna die.

• 2:34Speaker 03

  Everybody dies.

• 2:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but you don't wanna die that way, dude.

• 2:36Speaker 02

  If you get to decide one way to die, that's not one of the worst ways.

• 2:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's the worst way. You're gonna die in space, running out of air.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  You don't know how it's gonna happen.

• 2:43Joe Rogan?

  What about?

• 2:44Speaker 02

  Reentry.

• 2:45Joe Rogan?

  You could get, yeah, you could just cook instantly.

• 2:48Speaker 02

  Could be on the way up.

• 2:49Joe Rogan?

  You get hit by a micrometeorite.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  Could be while you're asleep up there.

• 2:53Joe Rogan?

  Could be.

• 2:54Speaker 03

  Imagine standing on Mars, looking back at Earth.

• 2:57Joe Rogan?

  Going, what the fuck did I do? Why did I do this?

• 3:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then having kids on Mars.

• 3:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, those poor kids.

• 3:05Speaker 03

  We came from there.

• 3:07Joe Rogan?

  You think homeschooling's bad? How about space schooling?

• 3:11Speaker 03

  Just imagine the crazy shit that happens on Mars. I mean, it's gonna be, what, a hundred thousand people?

• 3:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and so you're gonna get one psycho who's gonna run everything, and they're gonna take over.

• 3:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:21Joe Rogan?

  Probably some cult leader convinces everybody to do it his way.

• 3:25Speaker 03

  It's gonna be a sex cult, one hundred percent.

• 3:26Joe Rogan?

  Hundred percent.

• 3:27Speaker 03

  And we're back to sex in space.

• 3:29Joe Rogan?

  Right, they're gonna say, like, listen, if Elon is their man, Elon wants to procreate every chance he can. How many kids does he have now? Allegedly.

• 3:38Speaker 03

  Double digits.

• 3:39Joe Rogan?

  No, we don't even know how many.

• 3:41Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 3:41Joe Rogan?

  Cause they think he's got secret kids.

• 3:43Speaker 03

  They think? Who's they?

• 3:45Joe Rogan?

  They, the fucking people that run the world.

• 3:47Speaker 03

  Is there a Wikipedia page on this?

• 3:49Joe Rogan?

  There probably is. He's probably got secret kids.

• 3:52Speaker 03

  Secret kids?

• 3:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. When you have, like, what does he have, like, three hundred plus billion dollars?

• 3:56Speaker 03

  It's growing.

• 3:57Joe Rogan?

  You can, you can have a few ladies here, there, all over the place, having kids. There's a lot of ladies that just wanna have kids. They don't want a guy around.

• 4:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's a...

• 4:07Joe Rogan?

  Especially when they get a little older.

• 4:08Speaker 03

  There's a castle in the south of France with like a harem, just a bunch of kids.

• 4:13Joe Rogan?

  Waiting for them. Yeah, just waiting for daddy to...

• 4:15Speaker 03

  Allegedly.

• 4:16Joe Rogan?

  To land his rocket ship.

• 4:17Speaker 02

  Online at the fisherman's says at least twelve.

• 4:19Joe Rogan?

  At least twelve kids. See, nobody even knows. Imagine, no one knows how many kids you have? That's kinda crazy.

• 4:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, well, it's the situation Genghis Khan was in, you know?

• 4:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, he was doing it a little differently. He was a little bit more forceful.

• 4:37Speaker 03

  Actually, I mean, there's a lot of different perspectives on that. Like, I, um, what's the, the book on Genghis Khan? So, first of all, there's obviously the Dan Carlin Wrath of the Khans, and in that series of podcasts, he criticizes the book Jack... Weatherford. Weatherford. Making of the Modern World. Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World, Genghis Khan and the Mongols and the Making of the Modern World.

• 5:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so that's the, and now, there it is, nice. That is, uh, one of the things that Dan Carlin talks about, that when enough time has passed, that they sort of look at these marauders and murderers in a different light, and saying, "Oh, he opened up trade to the east." Sure. Also, killed 10% of the population of Earth, lit people on fire and launched them on catapults onto thatched roofs.

• 5:34Speaker 03

  Well, I think, uh, I think actually Dan Carlin makes a really good point. How long do you wait until, you know, that you could tell these kinds of stories about Hitler? I think that's the example he uses.

• 5:45Joe Rogan?

  Right, yes, that's what he uses.

• 5:46Speaker 03

  But, you know, you want to be historically accurate here, and Genghis Khan, there's a lot of different perspectives, including opening up trade, and including what was the protocol based on which he was doing the murdering. So, it was very clear, before the invasion, he always said, "You can surrender, and then we would not murder anybody. You just have to follow the law." And the law was very, very sort of clear, and it's, it is basically...

• 6:22Speaker 03

  Enforcing a law of the land, so free trade, free practice of religion. And you have to pay taxes instead of to your, to your king. You have to pay taxes to the Mongol Empire.

• 6:34Joe Rogan?

  But did they really say, we won't kill anyone?

• 6:36Speaker 03

  Yes, one hundred percent. That's, they followed that, and this is very well documented.

• 6:41Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 6:42Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 6:43Joe Rogan?

  So, everybody could have just laid down and ten percent of the world's population wouldn't be dead?

• 6:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 6:49Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 6:49Speaker 03

  So, the nuance there is that sometimes they killed the upper classes.

• 6:54Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm. Well, you know, didn't they kill the royals by like crushing them to death? They'd have lunch over them?

• 7:01Speaker 03

  They were, li- listen, this is a different time, but they were brutal. If they, if they, because they want to, uh, they use fear as part of the, the military tactics, right? So, they want people to be terrified. And they want people to talk about how terrifying the Mongol Empire is, so that they forfeit more easily.

• 7:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:23Speaker 03

  You know, there's, there's a lot of aspects of it. Not, not to say that Genghis Khan is a feminist, but there's a lot of progressive aspects. Like, he put a lot of women in positions of power. He gave a lot of rights to, to women. This is a very strange perspective.

• 7:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but he did a lot of raping.

• 7:40Speaker 03

  Nope. There's not, his kids, it's, I mean, it's-

• 7:44Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean, nope? When, when he would conquer these places, he would take women. And they would become his new wives. Yeah, but it wasn't their call. So, that's kind of rapey.

• 7:56Speaker 03

  That's very rapey, yeah. So, but there's a-

• 8:00Joe Rogan?

  If you just fucking take them and make them have your kids.

• 8:03Speaker 03

  There's the kind of mass rape that the Soviet soldiers did at the end of World War II when they're marching towards Berlin, which is, uh, extremely violent, vicious, and sort of that kind of rape, which is part of the terror of war. And then there's like, uh-

• 8:23Speaker 03

  Creating a harem of women, right? So it's a different. I think the main point is that, you know, this is something you talk about that, you know, a large percent of the population, as that one study from like 20 years ago found, are descendants of Genghis Khan.

• 8:41Joe Rogan?

  Huge, yeah.

• 8:42Speaker 03

  I think the way to do that is to, is to make everybody who's your descendant popular within the culture. Like, you can't, you can't have that many, have your DNA propagate throughout civilization by raping. You have to have everybody who, like, to have a high status for people that are associated with Genghis Khan. You can't have that kind of thing with fear. You can only do it with respect and high status. And he, for several generations, created an empire that was flourishing.

• 9:22Joe Rogan?

  Okay, you're kind of whitewashing that.

• 9:26Speaker 03

  No, well.

• 9:27Joe Rogan?

  I mean, they killed a million people in Jin China and turned their bones into a stack, a pile that they recognized as snow-covered mountains from the distance. That's what they thought it was until they got up on it. When the Shah of Khirisma came there to check it out, he was like, where is everybody? They had abandoned the roads because there were so many dead bodies that the roads had deteriorated into muck.

• 9:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, let me actually sort of backtrack a little bit here because I'm uncomfortable because I'm deeply involved in the military affairs of modern day. And so there's a kind of, I was just kind of having fun. Yes, there was mass murder that was happening. It was vicious. And we could, and I'm not a scholar of Genghis Khan. I was simply saying that it's interesting how history looks at these different empires. For example, we venerate the Roman Empire. Not we, but ancient Greece. And they were equally, if not more brutal in their conquests and their destruction.

• 10:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, there's never really been a time where there was a leading superpower that wasn't brutal.

• 10:36Speaker 03

  It's, I think, become less and less brutal over time, and people document this. So war, the number of people, as percent of the population, killed is less and less.

• 10:46Joe Rogan?

  But what about Ukraine and Russia? Like, how many people have died, all told, between the two? It's gotta be close to a million.

• 10:54Speaker 03

  It's over a million casualties, which includes death and injuries. And the estimates vary, but I think a good estimate is over 400,000 total. Maybe over 500,000. On both sides. And the dead on the Ukraine side is probably one-third or one-fourth of the total dead.

• 11:18Joe Rogan?

  Really? So three-quarters of them on the Russian side?

• 11:21Speaker 03

  On the Russian side, yeah.

• 11:22Joe Rogan?

  Really? What do you attribute that to?

• 11:24Speaker 03

  I think there's military scholars that understand this really well. I think, in general, the invading force loses more people than the defending force. That's one aspect. Of course, the Ukrainian military will say it's about the effectiveness of the Ukrainian military. And also, one of the other things they say is that the medical capabilities, so the medics are really strong on the Ukrainian side, which is also tragic, because you're able to save lives, but you have the injuries, the pain of war, you know, that the veterans have to go through. So they're able to save lives more effectively also.

• 12:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 12:07Speaker 03

  But there is a big characteristic of the invading force usually loses more people.

• 12:12Joe Rogan?

  What was it like going over there and interviewing Zelensky?

• 12:18Speaker 03

  So I should say I went to Ukraine twice after February 24th, 2022 invasion. And maybe it's good for me to also say where I come from, because it's surreal to be there for me.

• 12:33Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Both my parents are from Ukraine, from Kiev and Kharkiv. These are towns in Ukraine, cities in Ukraine. I've been there many times. I myself was born in Tajikistan, speaking of Genghis Khan. And I lived there, in Tajikistan. And by the way, I'm pro-creating, defending Genghis Khan in this conversation for fun.

• 12:55Joe Rogan?

  You didn't really defend.

• 12:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I wanna be, sort of say that over and over again. War is hell. And it's, I'm almost a tension between how much Roman Empire sees her and these folks are venerated. And Genghis Khan is seen as this barbarian that was just destroying and raping and so on. They're all horrible vicious war mongers.

• 13:23Joe Rogan?

  All of them.

• 13:23Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 13:25Speaker 03

  Anyway, Tajikistan, and I lived for a time in Kiev and I lived for a time in Moscow. I have family in Ukraine, I have family in Russia. And so, and I should say in World War II,

• 13:40Speaker 03

  a lot of my family was slaughtered in Babayar, which is a ravine in Kiev, where they gather people around, the Nazis. And they just put them in this ravine and just shot them. And then put another layer of humans, told them to get naked and face down, lay face down and slaughter, slaughter like this. It's mass, mass, mass graves, mass slaughter. And my grandfather fought the Nazis. He's a machine gunner, which he's one of the few that survives, which is the reason I'm here. That they basically tried to hold off the Nazi armada.

• 14:22Speaker 03

  And that, the surreal aspect of all this is the same land, you know? I just still remember the song.

• 14:35Speaker 03

  It's 22nd of June. The bombing at four AM, the bombing of Kiev began. So this is in nineteen forty-one, June twenty-second. Just imagine, speaking of Genghis Khan, complete surprise. Just the Nazi armada, just calming the Operation Barbarossa. This massive military force invading your land. It's Kiev and there's the greatest, the biggest battles of all time were in this land. The Battle of Kiev, the Battle of Stalingrad, the Battle of Moscow. We're talking about hundreds of thousands, millions of people just slaughtering each other.

• 15:15Speaker 03

  And the way Hitler, of course, approached the battle, and so did Stalin, is nobody surrenders. It's, there's no, it's all in slaughter. It doesn't matter if it's winter, it doesn't matter if there's no guns, it doesn't matter. It's just victory or death on both sides. And so it's just brutal war. And so this is the land, right? And I have, you know, for a lot of people in this land, this history is part of them. It's part of their blood. They remember these struggles. They remember this, this political, this geopolitical, this military, this social, this is real.

• 15:54Speaker 03

  This is like, imagine, it's because recent, imagine the United States living maybe a few decades after the Civil War. You remember, you remember that, you know, you have relatives that died. You have, you remember the real, the real hatred, the real tensions, the real, the real battles. So, yeah, it was surreal to be back there and to try to do what I was doing, which is to push for peace. Since there's probably a lot to say about this war. I should say that I interviewed Vladimir Zelensky.

• 16:37Speaker 03

  And I will be traveling to Russia to interview Vladimir Putin. And

• 16:47Speaker 03

  I the I'm aware of the risks. I accept the risks. And the goal, the mission is to just push for peace, to do my small part in pushing for peace. And that's what I was trying to do in this conversation. And it required just a huge amount of preparation. For people who don't know, maybe I'll lay out where there was opportunities for peace. So since the beginning of the war, February 24th, 2022, I think there was three moments to make peace. From the perspective of Ukraine, you want to make peace from strength. So when you're in a position of strength.

• 17:25Speaker 03

  The first time to make peace was March and April of 2022, when the Ukrainian forces were able to successfully defend the north, defend Kiev. There's this huge optimism, this belief that we push back this gigantic Russian military. That's a place for leverage and the confidence, both of the US funding, the European militaries, and the Ukrainian military, that we can win this. This is when you make peace, when there is a when there is a perception and a reality of strength.

• 18:03Speaker 03

  The second time was in the fall of 2022, when there was a successful counteroffensive by the Ukrainian forces that recaptured Kharkiv and Kherson. This is the south and the east of Ukraine. And there was this real sense that we could that the Ukrainian forces can defeat the Russian forces. Huge optimism. Now, a lot of pressure from the US to make peace then. This is the strength and perhaps the weakness of Volodymyr Zelensky, who I do think is a historic figure and a great leader, is that he, one, deeply emotionally feels the suffering

• 18:48Speaker 03

  of the people and the loss that war creates. And he, single-handedly, has to unite the nation and carry the will of a people and the morale of a people, has to lift the morale of a people. And that kind of man struggles to make peace because he understand he he wants justice, not peace. And so from a position of strength there, he wants to go further, recapture all of the land that he sees belongs to Ukraine. But that's exactly when you make peace. And so his very strength, a man that stayed in Kiev, that said, you know, fuck you. We're not going to, uh, we're going to win this.

• 19:32Speaker 03

  That kind of man that lifted a whole nation, that united a whole nation, that man is also struggled to make peace. And so the third time to make peace, after all, after all of that, the Russian military regrouped and has been, um, capturing land gradually. And so the, the third time to make peace is now. The Trump administration, there's a momentum. They want to make peace. He won't, he, he's a great dealmaker. He wants to end wars in all parts of the world.

• 20:09Joe Rogan?

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• 22:31Speaker 03

  Made the deal in Gaza, and that's a super complicated situation too, because they made a ceasefire deal with the hostages, but like...

• 22:39Joe Rogan?

  But isn't it amazing that the Biden administration had two years, couldn't get anything done, and Trump kids had done it a day? He was saying that he was gonna be able to do that, and everybody dismissed it.

• 22:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I think there's a political battle now taking credit for who made the ceasefire, which I think is silly.

• 23:01Joe Rogan?

  Of course you're gonna have that.

• 23:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:03Joe Rogan?

  Biden is the president. He's still the president for another few days.

• 23:06Speaker 03

  The point is, with Donald Trump, there's a real will and a momentum to make peace. There's a respect, there's a fear, there's, you know... Whatever you think about Donald Trump, he is this person that world leaders respect in the full meaning of the word "respect", not like "admire", but "fear".

• 23:30Speaker 03

  I think both Zelensky and Putin fear Donald Trump. And that's a great person to then make peace. Because he has the leverage. All of them believe, Putin and Zelensky, that Trump could do some crazy shit.

• 23:46Joe Rogan?

  And he probably would, but he doesn't want to.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  Right.

• 23:48Joe Rogan?

  This is the difference.

• 23:49Speaker 03

  And.

• 23:50Joe Rogan?

  That's a very unique position that he's in. Where they're afraid of him, but yet he wants peace.

• 23:55Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 23:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  And so this is the time. And if you don't make peace now, what's going to happen is the funding from US and the support from US is going to dwindle gradually. And Putin is willing and able to just wait. And to let the war continue for months and for years. And meanwhile, people are dying every single day.

• 24:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:21Speaker 03

  Thousands of people.

• 24:22Joe Rogan?

  What's so horrible about this war too is there's GoPro footage.

• 24:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:27Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of cellphone footage. There's a lot of GoPro footage. I've watched too much of it, unfortunately. But it's, it's rough, man. It's, it's a horrible war. And it's a war that's so confusing over here, especially to the uninitiated. For the people that are just like kind of reading the newspaper and getting a it's a sort of a cursory understanding of what happened. Russia invaded. Why? You know, what'd they do? And then you, you gotta get into the whole US-backed coup in 2014. And then you have to think about NATO and the agreement that was made, the fall of, you know, when the wall came down in Berlin. The agreement that NATO would not push forth and move closer to Russia,

• 25:12Joe Rogan?

  which they violated over and over and over again. The whole thing is so complicated that it takes forever just to sort of get an understanding of the pieces that are involved. Forget about like who's responsible for what, but just like how many different things are happening.

• 25:30Joe Rogan?

  You know, simultaneously, that are forcing Putin's hand, now Zelensky's hand, and it's just to be on this side of the world, watching it take place, it's almost unbelievable. It's so hard to believe that Russia and Ukraine, which were both a part of the Soviet Union, just not that long ago, while during my lifetime, now they're at war.

• 25:52Speaker 03

  And I should say that I believe, so how do you handle situations like this? I believe US actually gave not enough money to Ukraine. They should have given more money, hit really hard, and then make peace. This is the point. A month or two after the start of the war, you can learn the same kind of lesson with Iraq and Afghanistan. There's no reason those invasions, those military operations.

• 26:19Joe Rogan?

  There's no other way? There's no other way than just give money? Give money and hit hard? There's no other way? What about?

• 26:27Speaker 03

  Well, what? Avoid it, avoid it.

• 26:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, what about have NATO back out?

• 26:31Speaker 03

  Well, a lot of this is about diplomatic rhetoric. And yes, NATO was consistently talking shit to Putin. And that's not, like, a lot of this is about diplomacy.

• 26:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 26:43Speaker 03

  And you can't just, you can't just pressure with words. I mean, for some people, it seems almost silly that you need to show respect to world leaders, but there needs to be shown real respect. Putin has laid out the interests of the Russian Federation. He said he's been very clear about what the interests are. They want their security to be respected, they want their nation to be respected. He's very clear. And simply, at the negotiation table, he just needs to be respected. Like, his perspective needs to be understood and heard. You can't just say Putin is evil, bad guy, authoritarian, hates freedom, we need to

• 27:28Speaker 03

  destroy him, this kind of, this whole... Vibe and energy you come, this idealistic sense that you bring to the table. You have to respect leaders. You have to respect Xi Jinping, you have to respect Putin. When you're at the negotiation table, not when you're on Twitter and X or talking shit or historians or activists, fine, you can criticize as much as you want, as vicious as you want, you can mock, artists can mock as much as they want, comedians, doesn't matter. When you're a world leader and you come to the table, you have to show respect, you have to treat other world leaders, as funny as it is to say, the way you want to be treated, with respect.

• 28:04Joe Rogan?

  It's not funny at all. Yeah, makes sense.

• 28:06Speaker 03

  And it.

• 28:07Joe Rogan?

  If you want to get things done.

• 28:08Speaker 03

  If you want, if you want to get things done, and more importantly, if you want the, in this war, for the death to end. One of the things I kept pushing, in an almost childlike way, was Zelensky, is getting him to open himself up for peace, because he kept shutting it down, he kept mocking Putin, he kept criticizing Putin, which is okay, it's okay to sort of criticize and say that there's war crimes, that, that there's real vicious violence and destructions happening, but along that, there has to be a door open of respect, of I'm willing to come to the table

• 28:47Speaker 03

  to negotiate, and respect the other, the other nation's interests, as opposed to saying, I'm only going to talk to the United States, you have to be open to, to negotiate. Because there had, unfortunately, this is the motherfucker of peace, is you have to compromise. You have to sit across the table, as, as a world leader, with a person you might fucking hate. Because, unlike Putin, I should say, Zelensky goes to the front. He talks to the soldiers, he sees the dead bodies, he talks to the civilians, the mothers that lost their children, the wise, the, that lost their husband, right? This person who's an empath, who's an emotional

• 29:31Speaker 03

  being, he's wearing all that in his mind, like there's a real pain there. Like he's tortured, tormented by this. If you're a leader, you have to put all that aside, and you have to sit and save your nation by compromising. That's it. And that, that's the hard thing of it, especially now, there's an opportunity, where the Trump figure rolls in, who wants to make peace. You have to use this opportunity.

• 30:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:00Speaker 03

  And it's tough. It's very, very tough.

• 30:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're putting it mildly. Very tough. What, what do you think Trump can do now? When he gets an, what, what could possibly, if Zelensky wants victory, they want revenge. What can Trump do to sort of like bring peace to the table?

• 30:23Speaker 03

  I think some of these notions sound naive.

• 30:29Speaker 03

  But literally meet. Which they haven't been meeting. So meet with Putin, meet with Zelensky.

• 30:35Joe Rogan?

  They haven't been meeting at all?

• 30:36Speaker 03

  No. So Zelensky comes down, what they've been meeting was Zelensky, but there is no meeting with Putin. I think the right thing to do is to go to, whether it's Switzerland, or, or Turkey, Istanbul, or Minsk, and like

• 30:52Speaker 03

  the biggest thing for me would be literally the three of them sit together.

• 30:57Speaker 03

  I think I, I trust in Trump's negotiation ability. And the carrot and the stick of the, of the United States military and the United States economy. For being able to control oil prices, being able to control trade with tariffs. Being able to threaten military force and funding and so on, plus sanctions, all of this. You can roll in with that carrot and stick implied or made implicit, implicit or explicit. And just sit at the table and talk like human beings. And show each other respect. Like that, you know, is, is one of the things that actually COVID did.

• 31:41Speaker 03

  There's something that happens where remote communication just is not it. Like the, the silly thing about this podcast being in person, right? There's a real power there. Everything else is. You know, like fucking with a condom.

• 31:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 31:56Speaker 03

  You have to, you have to, you have to show up. It's part of the reason.

• 31:59Joe Rogan?

  It's more like jerking off with a condom on.

• 32:01Speaker 03

  Jerking off with a condom.

• 32:02Joe Rogan?

  It's not even fucking with a condom on.

• 32:04Speaker 03

  For the metaphor, yeah. It's part of the reason I wanted to talk to President Zelensky in Russian, which I speak fluently. And he speaks fluent, it's his primary language.

• 32:15Speaker 03

  For people seem to misunderstand this on the internet. He spoke Russian his whole life, that's his main language. He speaks with his wife, with his whole staff, with all of this, this is his language. Uh, it's just that now the Ukrainian language has become a symbol of independence. So they're fighting for their independence, for their sovereignty. I understand it, but, you know, um.

• 32:36Joe Rogan?

  So he spoke with you in Ukrainian?

• 32:38Speaker 03

  He kept going back and forth. But yeah, most of the powerful things were said in Ukrainian. So I'm listening to an interpreter through a shitty headset. The interpreter's not, forgive me, to the interpreter, it's not very good. He's delayed, there's noise.

• 32:52Joe Rogan?

  God, but wouldn't it make more sense if he spoke to you in a language that you understand?

• 32:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, this, we really tried, but this is a man, once again.

• 32:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 33:00Speaker 03

  He's a, he's the leader of a nation in a time of war. And he's not stylistically who he is. Like, he's all in. This is like a Braveheart type character.

• 33:12Joe Rogan?

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• 33:55Joe Rogan?

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• 34:30Joe Rogan?

  Which is so crazy because he started his career as a comedian.

• 34:32Speaker 03

  Right, right. I mean, this, you never know, you never know who the, who the leaders are that step up. I think, you know, a lot of people sort of say that it's trivial that he stayed in Kiev when the Russian military invaded. To me, it's not trivial, trivial at all. I think that's a truly heroic act to stay when you know, when nobody knows what's going to happen and all the experts are saying Kiev is going to be taken. To stay as a leader in that same place where you were the night before, like, working, and not flee when everybody, the CIA, everybody's telling you to flee.

• 35:12Speaker 03

  To stay there like a bad motherfucker and actually go outside and film yourself speaking to the nation that we're going to win this, we're going to hold strong. That's a, that's an insane thing to do. And maybe it does require like, it's a Trump-level insanity, right? It's similar to me to the Trump standing up when there's still bullets flying and saying, "Fight, fight, fight." Right? That's a, where's that come from? I don't know. But most people don't have that.

• 35:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 35:41Speaker 03

  It's nice when, it was refreshing. It was refreshing when you see that. Like, holy fuck, yes, we want that guy.

• 35:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:50Speaker 03

  And he really united a nation. The nation was fractured. He was actually not popular at all up to that war because the policies he was trying were not working.

• 36:00Joe Rogan?

  What policy specifically?

• 36:02Speaker 03

  So his, uh...

• 36:05Speaker 03

  So the stuff that was working, I don't know the internals of the Ukrainian politics that well, but so he won in 2019 based on his desire to fight corruption and to modernize Ukrainian digital system, which he did very successfully. It's actually super interesting. You can, they have an app called DIA, which your passport, all your identification's all appified, which I don't understand why the United States doesn't have that. You can like update your license, you can get your license like instantly. So it's like the 21st century version of what government should work like. The reason they did that is it's

• 36:46Speaker 03

  a way to fight corruption. It's a way, like whenever you have paperwork, there's a place for corruption to seep in. So he was very serious about fighting corruption. And that's the other thing is, there is corruption in Ukraine. There's not as much as people perceive. But it's a serious problem.

• 37:06Joe Rogan?

  Is it less now than before?

• 37:08Speaker 03

  Well, I, see, I want, I want to be careful here because I don't, like, it's very difficult to know. The perception, there's a serious concern about corruption. In a time of war, there's always going to be more corruption. The United States spent nine trillion dollars on the war in Afghanistan, Iraq, and the Middle East. After 9/11, on that part of the world, they spent nine trillion dollars and it's growing. You think all that money, you've had a lot of guests on this program talking about how that money was used. There's a lot of shady shit that happened.

• 37:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:44Speaker 03

  War breeds corruption. This is one of the reasons you should be concerned about the military industrial complex is because that money's just not used well.

• 37:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 37:53Speaker 03

  But that's all, that's a discussion, the reality of corruption in Ukraine is it should be dealt with after you make peace. All the problems, the elections were suspended too. The ideas of democracy. There is censorship in Ukraine now. All of those ideas cannot be, all of those things cannot be fixed until the war is ended. The reason there is censorship now in Ukraine is because it's, it's a, it's a war. Like, you can't

• 38:27Speaker 03

  The ideas of democracy in part have to be suspended during a war to effectively fight that war. This is, uh, this is a whole idea of martial law. The United States has this. You, you don't, you don't fuck around. You have to win the war. When your land is invaded, you have to, every, uh, everybody has to be focused on this. The problem is it's a slippery slope. When, uh, all the media channels are being controlled and the, the president and everybody's so invested in quote unquote, winning the war, then where are the critical voices that say we need peace? Right? They're, they're coming from the outside, but you need that.

• 39:08Speaker 03

  The, the thing is, it's, it's a really complicated tension, right? You don't, during the war with martial law, you do wanna suspend elections, potentially. It's, it's a really difficult trade-off. The United States has the same thing. If we were to be invaded, I don't know by, by who, this is not, you know, if Canada invaded, I don't wanna make a joke out of this, but there's going to be a mar- yeah. Have a quick fight. Yeah, exactly. Well, like, there, there would be a martial law. Yeah. Where elections would be delayed or suspended and so on. So all those criticisms, all those concerns can, can only be dealt with once you make peace. Yeah.

• 39:53Speaker 03

  And in terms of cor- in terms of corruption, just my, there's a lot of people that know Zelensky well, and this has been my impression, having met him, they're, I don't think he, and I've not heard anybody that knows him well, say that he's personally corrupt. And this is really important. Like, he himself is not personally corrupt and he's, and he legitimately is fighting corruption. Now, he's in a system that has corruption. Uh, Russia has corruption. It's really difficult to weed out corruption. But he legitimately, at least to me, that's really important, that he as a single human being and the people really close around him, like, really close.

• 40:34Speaker 03

  That's cir- corruption starts to seep in, of course, when you, uh, go further out. But in, in that direct human being, that he is not personally corrupt. He, uh, like financially speaking, he singularly believes in the idea.

• 40:52Speaker 03

  Of Ukraine as a sovereign nation and he's willing to die for that idea. That is his strength and that is also his weakness when it's time to make peace.

• 41:03Joe Rogan?

  When you are preparing to do something like this and you are, you know, you're doing your research, you're getting ready to go do it, what are your concerns, other than your own physical safety, of course? But like, what is your, like, ultimately, what's your concerns? What are your goals when you're setting out to do this? Because this is very different than any other kind of podcast interview. It's, um, it's, there's no other format, really, where a world leader in the middle of a huge international conflict

• 41:43Joe Rogan?

  is going to sit down for three hours and talk to an American scientist, which is weird too, right? It's like, why are you doing it? You know what I mean? Like, why, this guy who works in AI just decides he's going to start a podcast. The podcast becomes very successful and all of a sudden he's like, I'd like to talk to everybody. I'd like to go over and talk to Zelensky and talk to Putin and everybody's like, why you? What the fuck are you doing? So you get a lot of that. And then unfortunately for you, you read the comments. So you get sucked into all that negativity.

• 42:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, there's a lot to say there. First of all, on the comments side, I always have a little Joe Rogan on my show saying, don't read the comments.

• 42:27Joe Rogan?

  Don't read the comments.

• 42:28Speaker 03

  And in this situation, it's especially intense.

• 42:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:34Speaker 03

  I should say, like, privately, after I did the conversation with Zelensky, every single person that knows the situation well knows me personally. Has written to me and it's all been really positive, like really positive. Almost like in the desert wanting water positive. Because there's a lot of voices that are afraid to speak that want peace.

• 42:56Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 42:57Speaker 03

  But online, this is something we talked about online a little bit. There, there's just like these like swarms of people that are like.

• 43:06Joe Rogan?

  Not even necessarily people.

• 43:07Speaker 03

  That's I, I don't wanna sort of go too far in that territory, assuming that anybody who criticizes me is a bot.

• 43:14Joe Rogan?

  No, no.

• 43:14Speaker 03

  But, but there is.

• 43:15Joe Rogan?

  I'm not saying that, but there's a, there's an enormous element of that, that's real. Whether it's bots or whether it's hired people, paid propagandists. The, the conversation is not a pure conversation between people expressing their ideas. There's a lot of propaganda online and it's very confusing to try to discern what the percentage is. You know, we've talked about this a bunch of times on the podcast, but there was a former FBI analyst who estimated that it's on Twitter alone. This is before the purchase. He believed it was around 80%. So 80% fake accounts, 80%, not just propaganda, like government propaganda. But most certainly corporations are hiring people to do similar things.

• 43:58Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure um there's companies that will do that for public figures, actors. You know, people that are involved in conflict. And this is part of the Blake Lively um dispute is that she is accusing that Justin Baldoni actor of an organized attack on her, which is probably what it feels like anyway. When you're involved in something on social media, like, oh my God, this is organized or they're attacking you. But it's a, it's a very confusing landscape. Ideally, what we would want with social media is different people, informed and uninformed.

• 44:40Joe Rogan?

  But at least expressing their ideas on things and exchanging information back and forth and talking.

• 44:47Joe Rogan?

  It's not the whole story, though. There's a lot of other players involved that are not real. There's AI, for sure. There's definitely large language models that are involved in this back and forth with automation. They look out for certain code words and these accounts attack certain ideas. So it's hard to know what the actual will of the people is.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, it's definitely true. And I've seen a lot of evidence of this, that there's Ukrainian bot farms and Russian bot farms.

• 45:26Joe Rogan?

  Have you spoke to Elon about this?

• 45:28Speaker 03

  About bot farms?

• 45:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because he knows a lot more now, of course, right? Because there was the big concern when he was buying Twitter. They were trying to say that it was 5%, it was only 5% bots. And they were doing that on extremely low sample size. They were doing it off of 100 people. So they got 100 people. And out of those 100 people, five of them, they determined were bots. And so they went with 5%, which is just ridiculous. You know, you're dealing with, how many people are on Twitter every day? Like, what's the total Twitter audience? It's not as big as Facebook, right? Facebook is 3.2 billion worldwide, which is unbelievable.

• 46:02Speaker 03

  I think X has a smaller number, but very influential and very active, yeah.

• 46:08Joe Rogan?

  Very active, very influential. 245 daily active. What is the total amount of accounts on it, though? Because, you know, there's daily active and then there's just people that just read them. There's a lot of people that just read. 541.56 million monthly active users. So, again, that's active users.

• 46:35Joe Rogan?

  So, total users. What's the total users?

• 46:42Joe Rogan?

  See, it's all active. I wanna know it counts.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  That's the only, I don't, uh... They delete counts all the time.

• 46:51Joe Rogan?

  Right. Yeah, they definitely do. So they must have some sort of a system where they weed out bots and... You know, there's a lot of concern right now on Twitter about censorship. You know, this is, I'm... I try to stay out of Twitter as much as I can, honestly, because I think it's bad for your mental health. I really do. I think people just barking at each other all day is not good to absorb. I wanna absorb real people that I interact with. I want to... I mean, I try to pay attention to the news. I try to pay attention to whatever controversial ideas are out there and try to see what I think. But I don't think it's good to dive in to social media all day. I think it's uniquely bad.

• 47:37Joe Rogan?

  And I think so many people are involved in it and they don't realize that they're poisoning their brain, just like they would poison their body if they're eating junk food all day. I think it's genuinely bad for you.

• 47:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, and you and I, and also in a particular, you know, doing a podcast, and we're also very different human beings. I would say your psychological fortitude is, uh, pretty strong. Like, I'm more, I wear my heart on my sleeve maybe a little bit more, and what if I, like, shit gets to me?

• 48:09Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:10Speaker 03

  And...

• 48:13Speaker 03

  And, you know, when you try to put compassion out there in the world, in the way I did, especially with this conversation with Zelensky, the attacks, like...

• 48:21Joe Rogan?

  You just have to recognize who the kind of people that are doing that are.

• 48:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:24Joe Rogan?

  You know, those are just really weak people. Really weak, psychologically damaged, mentally ill people that are probably medicated.

• 48:34Speaker 03

  I, sort of to push back, I think some of them are actually, uh, good sophisticated people. They're just acting not their best selves. Like, I've seen this, there's people that are like, I know them personally, and online, they're just, like, the worst shit comes out of them.

• 48:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, because they're mentally ill.

• 48:53Speaker 03

  But then all of us are a bit mentally ill.

• 48:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, we're all a little mentally ill. Like, no one is enlightened that I've met. I've never met one person who's perfect, right? I don't think it's possible with this journey that we're on as these meat vehicles, these soul-carrying meat vehicles, navigating a very confusing world. I don't think it's possible to be perfect. But you can have a desire to be a good person, and some people don't have that. And the excuse that they always use is, I mean, this is the Donald Trump excuse. You do anything you can to stop Hitler, you know, right? And this is, this is why they want to conflate, and they always want to pretend that everyone's Hitler. The problem with that is that just after a while, it's crying wolf, and people are like,

• 49:39Joe Rogan?

  oh, this is a bullshit game you're playing, and you're just using it as an excuse. Elon's talked about this a lot, about, and he's, he's absolutely correct, is that people use woke ideology as an excuse to be an asshole. And it's really just people that are assholes that are attaching themselves to things that make them feel righteous. And so they wrap themselves in this idea to, to give them virtue and to allow them to say the most awful things about other people that have different perspectives. And then just by nature, if you're doing that, you're doing the wrong thing. You're a bad person. You can justify it all you want. You can find people that agree with you all you want. But those people also are on the right track, or the wrong track, rather.

• 50:24Joe Rogan?

  The people that are listening to you and agreeing with you, they're on the wrong track. They're the wrong track if we want to be collectively a kind, compassionate, cohesive society, a community of human beings that all live together. That's totally possible. If you can do it in small groups of people, you can do it in enormous groups of people. It just has to be an ethic that gets promoted. It has to be something that you, you see people that you admire adhere to, and, and you do it as well. Whenever someone...

• 50:56Joe Rogan?

  Goes outside of that and whenever someone starts making horrific unfounded personal attacks because someone has a different political ideology or you know just going after them every day, all day long, like you're just broken. You're just, you're on the wrong path, period. And intelligent, aware people that have control of their emotions recognize that and they're not going to take your perspective seriously. So you're going to be less and less effective with what you do.

• 51:26Joe Rogan?

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• 52:10Speaker 00

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• 52:32Joe Rogan?

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• 53:31Speaker 03

  And in general, the failure mode is to paint the world, to draw a line between good and evil.

• 53:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 53:37Speaker 03

  Whether it's the line in geography, Russians, Putin is evil, or if it's Trump, Trump is evil.

• 53:44Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 53:45Speaker 03

  The version of that is Hitler. So I'm a big proponent of Solzhenitsyn's famous, the author of Gulag Archipelago, that the line between good and evil runs through the heart of every man, that all of us have that in us.

• 54:02Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 54:03Speaker 03

  And to be, it is good to be humbled by that reality. And if you are humbled by that reality, then you're not going to see any other people as purely evil or purely good. All of that, that kind of thing is used to just, to just, to hate others.

• 54:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah. And even when it's unfounded. You know, even like I'm watching the Pete Hegseth, the confirmation hearings. And they, these ignorant people are going after his tattoo, not even knowing what the tattoo is, and trying to pretend that it's some sort of radical hateful tattoo, when it's just an ancient Christian tattoo. It's so strange. I mean, that tattoo's in churches. That, that symbol's in churches. That symbol's, that symbol's been around for a long fucking time. It's just a Christian tattoo. And I was watching The Pierce Morgan Show.

• 55:09Joe Rogan?

  And Pierce Morgan had Michael Knowles and these two super whack and Dave Rubin and two super wacky leftist people that didn't know what the tattoo was. And they were criticizing and Pierce Morgan kept like, "What is the tattoo? What is it? Tell me what it is." And the guy would go like, "Go on. You're not answering the question. Go back to it. What is it?" "Well, let's look it up." He's like, "No, no, no, no, don't look it up. I want you to tell me. If you're saying it's offensive." And so then the woman chimes in and Michael Knowles just clowns her. Just absolutely knows the history of the tattoo, including like, you know, she's talking about it before it existed before Islam. You know, and she's criticizing what it is.

• 55:52Joe Rogan?

  And he's like, "Do you understand that Islam didn't exist when this tattoo, when this symbol existed? Like, it's not an anti-Muslim symbol because there was no Muslims when this symbol was created." Like, this is bonkers. And they're all in, digging their heels in, pretending, just trying to win this conversation. Just trying to win. And Pierce Morgan's doing that. He's like the Jerry Springer of political ideology now. He just has people get on the show and yell at each other. It's very entertaining and he gets great soundbites out of it. It's kind of genius in terms of like an engagement perspective. If you looked at your show as just like, "How do I get more engagement?" Well, that's how you do it. You get some wacky leftists gonna say nutty things. You get some right-wing persons gonna say nutty things and you get them all together

• 56:37Joe Rogan?

  yelling at each other.

• 56:38Speaker 03

  I wish he did less of that. I should say that Pierce Morgan, I think, is a great interviewer. Like, he's legit a great interviewer, but he also has, he can put on his Jerry Springer hat on too.

• 56:48Joe Rogan?

  He's making money. Listen, I mean...

• 56:51Speaker 03

  He does, I mean, he does both. He does do long-form, great interviews, so that's...

• 56:55Joe Rogan?

  He's found his lane.

• 56:56Speaker 03

  Alright.

• 56:57Joe Rogan?

  His lane is Jerry Springer. But he's doing a good job exposing these people. It's very valuable. Like, that conversation was very valuable for me. Because it's like, this is adorable. Watching this guy like flounder around trying to come up with a reason why this tattoo is so offensive.

• 57:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, but see, what I don't like about that is that guy's floundering, but there could be actually facets to that person outside of this ridiculousness that's interesting.

• 57:23Joe Rogan?

  Right, but you gotta cleanse that from your mind, son.

• 57:26Speaker 03

  They do.

• 57:26Joe Rogan?

  If you wanna, if you wanna be the guy who's on television talking about important issues, and you've got this stupid thing in your head where you're arguing about a tattoo that you don't even understand.

• 57:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:36Joe Rogan?

  You gotta cleanse that stupidity out of your fucking mind. And sometimes the best way to do that is to get clowned on television.

• 57:43Speaker 03

  True.

• 57:43Joe Rogan?

  So he got exposed, she got exposed, they both look like morons. And then Michael Nolas, who did a fantastic job of like smiling, never raising his voice, calmly explaining it. Have you seen it?

• 57:56Speaker 03

  No, I haven't.

• 57:57Joe Rogan?

  See if you can find it, Jamie. It's pretty wonderful. Michael Nolas is a pro. He's a pro. The way he handled it was remarkable. And I know people criticize that guy, but fucking people criticize everybody. I'm just saying, in this moment.

• 58:10Speaker 03

  Don't read the comments, Joe.

• 58:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, don't read the comments, yeah. Yeah, even about other people, right?

• 58:17Speaker 03

  Well, that's the thing, I think you said that, you sometimes read comments from friends of yours.

• 58:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't even like doing that. I try not to do that, too.

• 58:24Speaker 03

  This is the thing that bothers me about comments, is I don't read them, but like, I don't know, my mom will read them and she'll, she'll text me something like, "Don't listen to what people say."

• 58:35Joe Rogan?

  Eh, my mom will send me things. "Is this true?" I'm like, "Mom, come on."

• 58:40Speaker 02

  This is the clip.

• 58:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, this is it.

• 58:45Joe Rogan?

  This is wonderful. Watch this. The two people on the far right of the screen, the lady in the pink jacket and the dude with the beard, they're fucked. They got cooked.

• 58:53Speaker 04

  ... you could accuse Pete of as being too alert and energetic. I found it overwhelming, actually, while I was there, tired, trying to dust the sand out of my eyes. But you, you suggest that the graduate of Princeton and Harvard, who for decades has been in the US military, served his country honorably, that he's somehow unqualified to work at the Pentagon. The, the most egregious accusation you make against him, though, is that he's an extremist because he has a tattoo. Could you tell us what the tattoo is?

• 59:22Speaker 05

  Uh, the tattoos specifically, I did not make the allegation that he's an extremist. It was actually his fellow colleague who called him as an insider threat.

• 59:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, right. So what's the tattoo?

• 59:33Speaker 05

  I can tell you, it says... It was his fellow colleague. Let Wajahat answer, because he... Wajahat raised a... Hang on, Wajahat raised a tattoo. Wajahat, it's a fair question. What is this tattoo that you're so upset about? Hey, Wajahat, Wajahat, hang on. Wajahat, hang on. Simple question. What is this tattoo that you're so upset about? I wasn't the one upset about it. I was talking about his fellow colleague. This is exactly what I said. His fellow colleague... Do you know what it was? In the US Army, called him out as a potential insider threat. What is the tattoo?

• 1:00:02Speaker 04

  You don't want to answer, huh?

• 1:00:03Speaker 05

  What is the tattoo? And also, I called him an extremist based upon his own book. Read the book, American Crusade. What is the tattoo, Wajahat? If you don't know what the tattoo is, just admit it. Oh, my lord. Listen, this is awesome.

• 1:00:14Speaker 04

  Would you like to tell you what the tattoo is?

• 1:00:15Speaker 05

  I want to... You're genuinely intrigued? Let the lady talk. We got a panelist. When the lady talks, it's even more brutal. It's genuinely painful.

• 1:00:23Joe Rogan?

  A woman hasn't spoken yet.

• 1:00:25Speaker 05

  You're not answering.

• 1:00:26Joe Rogan?

  A woman hasn't spoken yet. Let her speak. A woman hasn't spoken yet.

• 1:00:30Speaker 05

  Be honest, Wajahat.

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  I did hear him answer it. They were all talking over each other.

• 1:00:36Joe Rogan?

  Did he actually say the words?

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, they weren't talking about the cross. They're talking about a different tattoo.

• 1:00:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, she is talking about that as well. She's... But it'll go on to that.

• 1:00:44Speaker 05

  Actually know what that tattoo is or not? Listen, what I do know is I read his book. And in his book, if you read it, it's called American Crusade. In his book... Wajahat. Be honest. Be honest. I am... Look. This is Jerry Springer. Ironically, no one's gonna crucify you if you don't know the answer. But do you know the answer? Putting our national security at risk for Pete Hexen. I am telling you everything, and you guys are finding ways to spin... Why are you guys okay with the man? No, no, we're simply asking you... Who has an NDA with a woman that he allegedly sexually assaulted. Do you know what the tattoo is? I said exactly what I said.

• 1:01:17Joe Rogan?

  No, it goes further. See if you can find where the woman's speaking, because it gets even more brutal. Because she's incorrect, and Michael Knowles corrects her. And when he corrects her, it's fucking great.

• 1:01:28Speaker 05

  It's a good way to expose...

• 1:01:29Joe Rogan?

  See if you can find the other one, Jamie.

• 1:01:31Speaker 05

  Very narrow.

• 1:01:35Speaker 02

  That's gonna be in here.

• 1:01:36Joe Rogan?

  Click on it.

• 1:01:37Speaker 02

  I missed the whole show. It's an hour-long show. They're all talking the entire time.

• 1:01:41Joe Rogan?

  Click right there, I'll know where it is.

• 1:01:45Speaker 06

  What is the answer?

• 1:01:46Speaker 05

  This falls along a thread as an insider.

• 1:01:49Speaker 06

  No, no, I'm going back to Michael.

• 1:01:51Speaker 05

  2021 pegged Pete Hegseth as a potential insider.

• 1:01:54Speaker 06

  You had 98 chances to answer and he failed the test. Sorry, I'm going to Michael. I'm going to Michael. Don't talk over each other. Michael.

• 1:02:02Speaker 04

  The tattoo in question, the tattoo in question is called a Jerusalem cross. This is a medieval Christian symbol, goes back a long time. In fact, at Jimmy Carter's funeral, there was a Jerusalem cross on the floor of the cathedral. And on the program for the funeral, there's one other tattoo that some have suggested could be extremist. It's the phrase Deus Volta, which is a medieval Christian slogan, a long traditional slogan that refers to God's will and it goes back a long way. These are very traditional, very mainstream Christian symbols that not only are not extreme in any way, but which even the people who want to accuse him of extremism couldn't possibly name. That is pathetic.

• 1:02:41Speaker 06

  All right.

• 1:02:42Speaker 05

  My director has that tattoo. His insider guardsman did it, which is what I said. And also I said that he called himself too extreme for the US military in his book. That's pathetic. So you're gonna, is Pete Hegseth lying that he's too extreme in his book?

• 1:02:54Speaker 06

  Let me go to Julie, he's been waiting very.

• 1:02:55Speaker 04

  He's too extreme for radical leftists.

• 1:02:56Speaker 06

  Let me go to Julie. Let me go to Julie. Be gentlemanly, please. We have a lady who's not spoken. Julie, be waiting very patiently. Your view of this? I'll tell you what, before you answer, I know you said in your sub stack about this, under normal circumstances, he, Pete Hegseth, would be precluded from serving in any leadership role. So explain why you said that.

• 1:03:19Speaker 00

  Well, let me, I will explain in one second. Let me go back to something that was said in the very beginning, that he spent more than 10 years at Fox News and that's what qualifies him to be in this position that he wants to be in. I spent more than 10 years at Fox News. I don't think I'm qualified to run the DOD whatsoever, based on my time at Fox News. I said that was one of the things. If you, if you, well, I don't think that's even a remote qualification. That's one. Being able to communicate ideas as the Secretary of Defense and explain policy is actually a very big part of the job. There are plenty, there are plenty of qualified Republicans out there who can run the DOD, who also are good on television. It does not need to be Pete Hegseth. Secondly, again, you talked about NDAs.

• 1:04:02Speaker 00

  I am bound by an ND8 Fox News if I were. We're not bound by an NDA and if Fox News wanted to release me from that NDA, I could tell you about my time with Pete Hexeth. Unfortunately, that's not possible. But I will say that the reason that there are so many people who anonymously came forward at Fox News is that because they're also bound by confidentiality provisions which one-third of all American workers need to sign on their first day of work and if they were to go public, they could get sued. The reason this accuser is not heard from is because, according to The New Yorker, she tried desperately to meet with Joni Ernst on the committee and Joni Ernst turned her down. So the reason that she has not been able to come out publicly is because she has an NDA and even privately, she could not meet with a senator on this committee who's also

• 1:04:47Speaker 00

  a rape survivor to share her story because that rape survivor did not want to hear from a woman who was going to put her potentially in a position to vote against Pete Hexeth. Pete Hexeth has written himself, while at Princeton, saying that women who are passed out, if you have sex with them while they're unconscious, that's not really rape. Right? Now, the American military-

• 1:05:08Joe Rogan?

  Is that true? Was that written somewhere?

• 1:05:10Speaker 00

  Has a tremendous-

• 1:05:11Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 1:05:12Speaker 03

  It doesn't sound true, but yeah.

• 1:05:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's hard to say, but scoot ahead to where they just start discussing the tattoo. It's in the same flow. It's not that far away.

• 1:05:23Speaker 03

  This is definitely not a good format, though.

• 1:05:26Joe Rogan?

  No. Well, at least they're letting her talk.

• 1:05:29Speaker 00

  You can just go have your way with them.

• 1:05:30Speaker 03

  Not really.

• 1:05:31Speaker 00

  So I don't know which soldiers you've been talking to who think Pete Hexeth is a great thing for the military. There are not, there is not one woman out there who cares about being assaulted on deployment who thinks that this is the person that needs to be in charge of the United States military. And as for the cross that you talked about, yes, Deus Vult, which is the cross that he has and the slogan that he has-

• 1:05:51Speaker 04

  Deus Vult is a phrase.

• 1:05:52Speaker 00

  Is an old Christian cross. The part, the phrase, excuse me, the phrase. The phrase, however, was uttered by crusaders as they were slaughtering Jews and Muslims during the Second Crusade specifically. So it's not just a random cross.

• 1:06:06Speaker 04

  That isn't, that isn't true.

• 1:06:08Speaker 00

  It's not just a random phrase.

• 1:06:09Speaker 04

  That isn't true. The phrase, that isn't true.

• 1:06:11Speaker 00

  It's not true.

• 1:06:12Speaker 04

  The phrase was uttered after the Council of Clermont when Pope Urban II declared the crusade. It was actually probably "du le voule", but it's been rendered in Latin as Deus Vult. It has nothing to do with slaughtering Jews.

• 1:06:23Speaker 00

  And you're telling me-

• 1:06:24Speaker 04

  It has nothing to do with slaughtering Muslims because the Muslims had invaded Europe, not the other way around.

• 1:06:29Speaker 00

  Oh my god, are you really saying that the reason the crusade which was sent to the Holy Land to liberate the Holy Land, from whom? From Jews and Muslims?

• 1:06:38Speaker 04

  The crusade began because the Eastern... I'll tell you why the crusade began, because the Eastern Emperor asked for help from the Western Pope because the Seljuk Turks were slaughtering Christians in the Holy Land, because those lands were Christian before the Muslims invaded in the 7th century. So, that's why.

• 1:06:54Speaker 00

  No, no, no, those crusades...

• 1:06:55Speaker 05

  Good to know Michael's pro crusade.

• 1:06:56Speaker 00

  Those lands, I'm sorry. Those lands, those lands...

• 1:07:00Joe Rogan?

  No, no, keep going.

• 1:07:02Speaker 00

  Those lands became Christian after the first crusade, okay?

• 1:07:06Speaker 04

  None of the lands were Christian in the 1st and 2nd centuries, and then the Muslims... Islam didn't exist before the 7th century, what are you talking about?

• 1:07:14Speaker 00

  Okay, I could, listen, listen, I can go all day if you want to talk about the crusades, but the point is I also shouldn't literature...

• 1:07:21Speaker 06

  I can say, I thought it was quite fascinating, actually.

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  For people, for people...

• 1:07:23Speaker 06

  Maybe we should switch the debate.

• 1:07:24Speaker 00

  But what that has to do with, what that has to do with Pete Hegseth is it's not that he has a random cross that talks about his faith in Jesus Christ, he used a very specific terminology, but putting all of that aside...

• 1:07:36Speaker 04

  A phrase that was first uttered to defend persecuted Christians in the Middle East, just like they're being persecuted today.

• 1:07:40Speaker 00

  Okay, if, if, if, okay, if you want to talk about the crusades being...

• 1:07:43Speaker 05

  And that's who you want as the Secretary of Defense, wonderful.

• 1:07:45Speaker 04

  Yes, someone who defends the persecuted Christians.

• 1:07:48Speaker 06

  Julie, finish your point, and I'll go to Michael, to Dave to respond.

• 1:07:54Speaker 00

  My point is that I cannot even, I cannot even believe that something the Vatican apologized for is something you're defending, which is the slaughter of Jews and Muslims during the crusades.

• 1:08:02Speaker 04

  What did the Vatican apologize for?

• 1:08:03Speaker 00

  But, excuse me, the Vatican said the crusade...

• 1:08:04Speaker 04

  What are you talking about?

• 1:08:05Speaker 00

  Oh my Jesus, you know what, why don't you, why don't you give me a call after this and I will walk you through exactly what the Vatican apologized for, what it came to be, the treatment of Muslims during the crusades.

• 1:08:12Speaker 04

  All right, let's try and bring things back.

• 1:08:13Speaker 00

  But if you want to talk about, but if you want to talk about Pete...

• 1:08:14Speaker 06

  We'll do a separate crusade debate another time, let me bring Dave Rubin in.

• 1:08:18Joe Rogan?

  The worst way to have a conversation.

• 1:08:20Speaker 03

  It's worse, I mean, I'm getting a headache from this, like, fuck, fuck these people, fuck all, fuck that whole panel, I'm sorry, but like, you can't, you can't talk like this, each of those individual people, I'm not sure about the second guy, even, even the woman, would be a fascinating 4 or 5 hour conversation, chill.

• 1:08:36Joe Rogan?

  You should probably have her on.

• 1:08:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, her and Michael Knowles and Piers Morgan, yes.

• 1:08:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:42Speaker 03

  This is not the right, I'm so exhausted of this fucking bullshit.

• 1:08:44Joe Rogan?

  I know.

• 1:08:45Speaker 03

  I can't, I'm like angry right now.

• 1:08:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know, I know, I want to play more for you.

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  This own, publish the column saying sex with unconscious women isn't rape.

• 1:08:55Joe Rogan?

  Jesus. Imagine not just thinking that, but publishing it?

• 1:08:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:09:00Joe Rogan?

  What did he actually say?

• 1:09:01Speaker 02

  If you want to read it, we can read it.

• 1:09:05Speaker 03

  Well, rape, in quotes, intercourse.

• 1:09:09Joe Rogan?

  "The amusing yet mandatory orientation program revolved entirely around whether, in an instance of sexual intercourse constituted rape, the actual instance portrayed in the skit was in fact, was a skit? In fact, not a clear case of rape, at least not in my home state." So this is Hegseth saying this. "In short, though intercourse was not consented to, there was no duress because the girl drank herself into unconsciousness. Both criteria must be satisfied for rape. Unfortunately, the panel has never cited any legal definition of rape. Yet the panel, all females in the session I attended, claimed that rape it was."

• 1:09:48Joe Rogan?

  Huh. What year was this?

• 1:09:51Joe Rogan?

  So are they talking about, this is what's confusing. Are they talk, it says a skit, and then it says they're talking about a legal definition of rape? Has the legal definition changed over the years? Like, when, when was this? Is he talking about a legal definition, or is he talking about his own opinion? Right, there's a giant difference between the two of them, right? Especially if you're taking something out of context, you don't know if he elaborated. Article for his college newspaper stating that having sex with unconscious women isn't rape because the criteria for rape isn't met. So this is in his college newspaper, so how old is he? Is he like 50? How old is Pete Hegseth?

• 1:10:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's up there, right?

• 1:10:34Joe Rogan?

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• 1:11:44Joe Rogan?

  which is really weird to think that forty four

• 1:11:47Speaker 02

  college would have been around two thousand

• 1:11:49Joe Rogan?

  well yeah I remember in um two thousand ish I remember when we were doing the podcast there was a brief moment of time where people were talking about uh if a man had sex with a woman and they had both been drinking that it was rape that the woman could not consent because she was drunk but the man's drunk too right so it gets weird it gets like we understand like traditionally men are pursuing women and that applying someone with alcohol is a famous thing that people do it's kind of a weird legal thing come on one more drink have another drink have

• 1:12:29Joe Rogan?

  another drink and we all know that when people get drunk they do stupid shit but we don't know what happened if you're both drunk you know so this is what I'm getting at is at two thousand these conversations are already being had the question is like is he saying this from his personal perspective or is he saying it from a legal perspective I don't know what else was in the text you know I'm trying to be as charitable as possible because if like more was in the like that's a reprehensible act that's like did he say anything like that or was it just specifically talking about the legal definition because he said in his state right

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  Also, uh, says to be clear, he did not write it himself, he published it.

• 1:13:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  That's what this is, says in short, Hegseth did not publish, I'll put it up on the screen. He did not, or did publish such a column while he held the role.

• 1:13:24Joe Rogan?

  He did not write it himself.

• 1:13:25Speaker 02

  He did not write it, it was written by someone else.

• 1:13:27Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so he just published someone's opinions. Okay, that's very different.

• 1:13:32Speaker 03

  That's very different.

• 1:13:33Joe Rogan?

  That's very, very, very different. She said, "He said that." That's not what he said at all. That, see that right there.

• 1:13:41Speaker 03

  I'm just so exhausted by this.

• 1:13:43Joe Rogan?

  That's exhausting.

• 1:13:44Speaker 03

  Both like, uh, the thing about Trump with both sides.

• 1:13:46Joe Rogan?

  But that right there is crazy because I, my opinion of him shifted briefly when I was looking. You know, I was watching Daniel Negrono, you know, the great poker player, was on Tim Poole's show.

• 1:13:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:57Joe Rogan?

  And they were talking about his shift in political ideologies and then a lot of it came from when they were accusing Trump of saying that thing that Obama repeated falsely during the campaign was that he was talking about, um, white nationalists and neo-Nazis and saying there's very fine people on both sides. And Negrono had heard that, he had heard the clip where Trump said it, where it was edited. He had never seen the full thing. And then once he saw the full thing, he was like, "What the fuck?" And it immediately made him realize like, "Oh my God, they're lying. They're lying." And then he talked about how Obama repeated, this is years after Daniel had known it was false.

• 1:14:41Joe Rogan?

  Obama repeating it at the campaign speeches. And then Obama's sitting right next to Trump and they're joking around with each other.

• 1:14:48Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:14:48Joe Rogan?

  "Hey pal, I know you're a neo-Nazi lover, you fucking rascal, how'd you win?" Like it's so... But just what that lady did on that show and then when we find out that Hegseth didn't actually write that, he just published it. You know, and he published it in college as a 20-year-old, or whatever he was.

• 1:15:08Speaker 03

  I think there should be also room for that lady to then change her mind and apologize.

• 1:15:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:14Speaker 03

  Because a lot of us parrot, a lot of us parrot, including probably you and I, Joe.

• 1:15:18Joe Rogan?

  Never.

• 1:15:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:19Joe Rogan?

  How dare you.

• 1:15:19Speaker 03

  Parrot bullshit we see online.

• 1:15:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:15:22Speaker 03

  And then we should give each other room to like.

• 1:15:24Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:15:25Speaker 03

  Say, "I fucked up."

• 1:15:26Joe Rogan?

  But people don't want to say that. This is what they have to understand, even people I don't like, listen to me. It's there's strength in that. It's better than digging your heels in. There's strength in saying, I was uninformed or I was misinformed. I fucked up. I've said it before. It's important to do. You gotta do it. Cause you can't have, you can't have an erroneous idea in your head and repeat it over and over again. You can't have an incorrect, false opinion that you have defended. And now you can't ever accept, even with new information that shows that it's not true.

• 1:16:00Speaker 03

  I should also say, cause it's fucking sitting in my head. Uh, on this topic, I'm probably gonna do like a five plus hour interview with Jack Weatherford on Genghis Khan. And I read his book.

• 1:16:12Joe Rogan?

  Alright.

• 1:16:13Speaker 03

  And I don't, I'm not proud of the way I formulated my, for the fuck of it.

• 1:16:18Joe Rogan?

  In the beginning of it?

• 1:16:19Speaker 03

  In the beginning, I'm still bothered by the looseness with which I talked about rape. There is, and I don't think I have in me the eloquence or the skill to improve on that. I think in general, it's trying to find the right words.

• 1:16:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, here's.

• 1:16:39Speaker 03

  To describe the historic, the historically accurate thing, the data that we have. And then the narratives. Uh, I think the point Jack Weatherford makes is that we keep oscillating back and forth on Genghis Khan.

• 1:16:54Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:54Speaker 03

  He's one, like this epic, great conqueror, like currently Alexander the Great has that good vibes all around him. Nobody talks about him as a horrible human.

• 1:17:05Joe Rogan?

  Horrible human.

• 1:17:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, but, uh, currently Genghis Khan has this kind of, um, a barbarian.

• 1:17:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:13Speaker 03

  Evil, just rapist.

• 1:17:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're so good at it. They were so good at murder. They were so good at war. I mean, they're so uniquely good at military strategy.

• 1:17:23Speaker 03

  So it's, it's about, he always kept the army to about a hundred thousand. It's small. So it's a hundred thousand horses. Each soldier had five horses, so four spare horses with them. So imagine it's five hundred thousand.

• 1:17:35Joe Rogan?

  Which they use their blood to, to fuel them.

• 1:17:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, they, they would.

• 1:17:39Joe Rogan?

  They use that for food.

• 1:17:40Speaker 03

  So it's very portable. They're not bringing, logistically, the whole, I mean, this isn't, it's just imagine this armada moving at like.

• 1:17:49Speaker 03

  They can move like fifty miles a day, this entire army, and they don't have to follow the roads, which all the military would follow the roads. So you can go around, you can surround, you can, and they did the, as you know, they can retreat, fein retreat, and then attack from the sides. It's the blitzkrieg, that's the.

• 1:18:08Joe Rogan?

  Genius stuff.

• 1:18:09Speaker 03

  And a lot of people, including Dan Carlin, say that's the greatest military in history. They would defeat every single military, including Napoleon, with the muskets and everything. They would destroy Napoleon. And then, of course, in the twentieth century.

• 1:18:23Joe Rogan?

  You know what they didn't defeat? Samurai.

• 1:18:27Speaker 03

  Uh, right. But they never really fought.

• 1:18:29Joe Rogan?

  They did.

• 1:18:30Speaker 03

  Twice, they fought, but it's not a real battle.

• 1:18:32Joe Rogan?

  These guys are fucking crazy. They thought they were crazy. These guys were like practicing their whole lives for one-on-one combat with swords.

• 1:18:40Speaker 03

  As far as I know, they never really had a full-on battle. I wish they did.

• 1:18:44Joe Rogan?

  There were some battles. There was battles on an island, one of the islands outside of Japan. But the Japanese successfully held off the Mongols. And they were like one of the only civilizations to ever pull that off.

• 1:18:54Speaker 03

  I think one of the issues with Mongols, except Kublai Khan, is they were not good with water. They didn't know how to, the ship thing was not.

• 1:19:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh. What a big mistake. Imagine if they got as good with water as they were with horses, that would've been a real problem.

• 1:19:09Speaker 03

  Well, a lot of things they had advantage on, like for example, they can ride on ice. And so.

• 1:19:13Joe Rogan?

  How'd they do that?

• 1:19:15Speaker 03

  They, it's, they, in Mongolia, they, these people like.

• 1:19:18Joe Rogan?

  Did they have different horseshoes? Did they even shoe their horses back then?

• 1:19:22Speaker 03

  No, I don't think so.

• 1:19:23Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:19:24Speaker 03

  No, no, it's all, like, they don't have, like.

• 1:19:26Joe Rogan?

  When did they start shoeing horses?

• 1:19:28Speaker 03

  That's a good question.

• 1:19:31Speaker 03

  But that doesn't feel like a Mongol thing. I mean, the people can ride the mounted archery. I'm sure you know about this.

• 1:19:38Joe Rogan?

  The mounted archery is so insane. They would, they had the ability to hang off the side of the horse, so they would shoot from under the horse's neck. So they were completely defended by the horse. And they were shooting arrows, and their bows were a hundred and sixty pounds. So you had to be insane. They said that a lot of the skeletons they find from that. Era, their bones are deformed. Cause your whole body has just been pulling a hundred and sixty pounds with your right arm or your left arm. Like your whole life. So your right side is like insanely muscled. And your bones are all twisted and thicker and denser tendons and everything. Cause they've been doing that since they were children.

• 1:20:21Speaker 03

  They were. They start out like two years old.

• 1:20:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, insanely formidable army. Insanely formidable. But here's something to take into consideration. We're saying about like how Genghis Khan's gene were genes were spread.

• 1:20:35Joe Rogan?

  But but but just right off the bat, it's all awful, all horrible. I wish no one ever got killed by anybody ever. It's all awful. All war is hell. All of it. All's hell. There was so much of it going on throughout human history that women would. There was a survival mechanism in accepting this conqueror as your new husband. When he slaughtered your husband, this is the only way your genes passed on. So these women were able, I mean, even if they said they fell in love with him. You know, even if they did marry him, even if they were happy to marry him. There was like al- almost an evolutionary requirement.

• 1:21:18Joe Rogan?

  Because we slaughtered each other so much that if you wanted your genes to pass on. You had to accept the slaughter of your former mate.

• 1:21:26Speaker 03

  And then in modern day society, we will call that rape.

• 1:21:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:21:29Speaker 03

  But it's it's a it's a you have to use different words for that time. Because there is rape where it's like violent rape as part of war, as part of a mechanism of terror.

• 1:21:42Joe Rogan?

  I think even as just part of society up until like a few thousand years ago. Or even a few hundred years ago. I think human beings, you know, like. I've had a bunch of friends who've served overseas and the stories they tell from Afghanistan, especially with the child raping, is fucking bone curdling. Like you, you, blood curdling, just like you just wanna leave the room when they're talking. You don't even wanna hear this. You don't wanna think that this is happening and it's happening right now. Because it's an old culture. It's an old culture and it's separate from the rest of the world. It's very remote, very difficult to access.

• 1:22:23Joe Rogan?

  You have warlords and herders who are living in these nomadic tribes to this day. Not much different than when Alexander the Great conquered it.

• 1:22:31Speaker 03

  So I should, I should say that Genghis Khan, from everything I understand, was, was not progressive, but he was very pragmatic. This is why he-

• 1:22:40Joe Rogan?

  Allowed all religions.

• 1:22:41Speaker 03

  All religions, which is Thomas Jefferson, I should say, deeply admired Genghis Khan for this, the freedom of religion. And he didn't just say freedom of religion. It's freedom of an individual to practice any religion they want, which is a, it's like individualism. It's a really revolutionary badass idea for that time, for that place.

• 1:23:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, he was, he recognized strength and the, the value of accepting strength and taking, and the strength in unity, the strength in community. If people can worship whatever they want, but all be united under one banner, it's better than dividing everybody.

• 1:23:18Speaker 03

  And the feminist thing that I mentioned, he would put women in power. Why? Is he a feminist? No, he understood that women are able to ru- men conquer better, in his perspective, and women rule better because they keep a stable society. So he would do, he would, uh, marry a woman to the king of the place and then send the king off to fight, the ruler to fight, knowing for sure he's going to die. But the woman is now ruling. And then there's a lot of like progressive things about, like they were allowed to show their face, especially in the, in the Persian lands where they conquered. Like they're allowed to wear these fancy, uh, headdresses and which is, you know-

• 1:24:03Joe Rogan?

  They could floss a little. She's got excited about that.

• 1:24:05Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:24:06Joe Rogan?

  New rules.

• 1:24:06Speaker 03

  And the other thing, you know, on the, this is the, the, the tricky thing is, the, the Mongolian tribes where Genghis Khan-

• 1:24:17Speaker 03

  Came up, by the way, came up from nothing. Father slaughtered. I mean, this is a

• 1:24:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:23Speaker 03

  From nothing. They all, that was a common practice to steal wives, to steal women.

• 1:24:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:30Speaker 03

  And

• 1:24:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, he had one of his wives stolen and she came back pregnant.

• 1:24:33Speaker 03

  That was like the origin story. The origin story of Genghis Khan, right, is like his, the love of his life, who was married to him for his whole life, that he proposed, or he said, you're gonna, we're gonna marry, at nine years old. At, she was kidnapped. And he had to raise an army in order to rescue her back. That's, that was the, the, the, sort of, the, the split in the road. He would have been a normal Mongol, but here he has to raise an army to rescue her back.

• 1:25:06Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:25:07Speaker 03

  And then he realized he's really fucking good at this whole rescue thing. But it started with, you know,

• 1:25:13Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 1:25:15Speaker 03

  You know, what?

• 1:25:16Speaker 02

  What's I could find is that the horses were unshod.

• 1:25:18Speaker 03

  Unshod.

• 1:25:19Speaker 02

  But they did do something that, this says here, they used some sort of skin to cover it.

• 1:25:24Joe Rogan?

  Interesting. Allowed to dry and place in order to acquire the shape of a hoof. Perfect the technique to cover the hoof, which offered greater abilities to their armies to move faster, more efficiently than their opponents. Interesting.

• 1:25:35Speaker 02

  Horseshoes were around for at least two or three hundred years before them, so they probably knew about them.

• 1:25:40Joe Rogan?

  Skins, that's interesting. What you're saying about him developing the ability and like really, hey, I'm really good at this, you know, that's exactly what happened with the Somali pirates? Do you know the Somali pirates' origin story?

• 1:25:51Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:25:52Joe Rogan?

  The Somali pirates called themselves the People's Coast Guard of Somalia. They were, they were defending their waters against Europeans dumping toxic waste in the ocean. They were fishermen. So they had found that these ships were dumping water and killing all their fish. And so they said, these motherfuckers, we're gonna hold them responsible. So they boarded these ships, kidnapped them, and said, hey, you have to pay us. We've lost all this money from all our fish. We don't have any fish. Give us money, or we'll kill these motherfuckers. And they gave them money and they said, hey, let's start kidnapping people. Like, this is, this is way better. And then, you know, there's obviously, there's a narcotic aspect to it because of cat.

• 1:26:34Joe Rogan?

  Cause the widespread use of this narcotic cat, which is like an amphetamine that they, is it a leaf? K H A T? That's like, you know, the guy on the boat, look, look at me, I'm the captain now. That guy's cracked out. I mean, they're all real skinny.

• 1:26:50Speaker 03

  And what's really important in that dynamic is who is the leader that emerges? That's the interesting thing about Genghis Khan. He became super powerful. That person could have been incompetent. Genghis Khan could have been a bunch of different people.

• 1:27:03Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:27:03Speaker 03

  He instilled one of the really revolutionary things is meritocracy.

• 1:27:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:27:07Speaker 03

  By the way, he appointed his kids.

• 1:27:12Speaker 03

  Several people, including Marcus Aurelius, wrote fancy, you know, meditations. He failed as an emperor by appointing his kids. The ever before him, the five emperors all appointed generals based on merit. Right? So Genghis Khan always appointed based on merit. Who's the best person here to lead the groups? Which is a revolutionary idea for the time because it was usually based on kin. Like your relationship, your brothers, your sisters, your father, so on. That was really important. And the other thing I mentioned is about the tribes, the origin story is everybody would kidnap and actual rape. The women, they would steal women in the Mongol Empire.

• 1:27:57Speaker 03

  As soon as he won over the entire original Mongolia, he banned, that was a strict rule. There's no kidnapping of wives. That was a rule for Mongolia and that rule propagated everywhere.

• 1:28:11Joe Rogan?

  That's wild. It's like, this is what got us into this shit.

• 1:28:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, which is one of the pieces of evidence where they're like, it's like, there was a lot of cracking down on the whole rape thing. But there's a caveat of like, well, why is there so many dead bodies? Where like the atmosphere changed.

• 1:28:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Why is the carbon footprint different than the human race during the time that he was alive? But it's interesting because we also have to look at things in a perspective of living in the year 1200. Or what is it 1240s? Like, when was he around?

• 1:28:45Speaker 03

  Twelve, actually no, there's twelve or thirteen.

• 1:28:49Joe Rogan?

  So.

• 1:28:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, Jamie will find out. It's so you have to, it's very hard to do, and it's not apologize for these people. I'm not like saying that we should apply the way they looked at the world today. I think the way we look at the world is infinitely better and we're moving in an infinitely better direction. And I think we have like large extremes that go in one direction and things push back in the other direction too far. There's an overcorrection and then they balance out. I think we're generally moving in a direction of a more kind, more peaceful society. I think we're better. That said, 1,200 years ago, the world was hell. There was no newspapers, no one could read. Okay, where did you get your information from? You got your information from priests and from generals and, you know, you shared information if you're farmers.

• 1:29:33Joe Rogan?

  You, the, the world was horrific. People fought with bows and arrows and cannons and catapults. And murder was commonplace. If you were 12 years old, you've probably seen a few people killed already. It was a different time to be alive. Diseases would kill everybody. There was no medicine. You broke your leg, you're dead. You know, you, you get infected, you're dead. It was just, the world was a very, very different place. It was so, so dangerous and so fucking terrifying and people relied on their base instincts. And their, the, the worst aspects of humanity, they relied on that to survive because that was all around you.

• 1:30:16Joe Rogan?

  You had to become a monster if you wanted to live in monstrous times.

• 1:30:20Speaker 03

  And that's why the rule of law had to be enforced in a brutal way.

• 1:30:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:25Speaker 03

  One of the really powerful things he did is protect merchants, people that traded. If you fuck with people that trade, that, that, that on the Silk Road, you're going to get slaughtered. It's not like there's going to be a process, you get slaughtered.

• 1:30:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:40Speaker 03

  In fact, one of the, one of the reasons.

• 1:30:45Speaker 03

  I hesitate to say this because people are projecting to the future, but he slaughtered, he took Kiev and slaughtered people because they broke the rule of, I forget the term for this, but the people that are sent out to communicate before the battle starts.

• 1:31:02Joe Rogan?

  Ambassadors.

• 1:31:03Speaker 03

  And the ambassadors, the rule is you don't fuck with them.

• 1:31:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:07Speaker 03

  And the Kievan residents killed them. And that's where the, you break the rule.

• 1:31:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:15Speaker 03

  It's like, that's it, then it's total war. And you had to do that, I mean, you don't have to do that, but that is one of the.

• 1:31:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, if you're living back then, you have to do that.

• 1:31:24Speaker 03

  And then you look at, like, but the result is complete slaughter. And by the way, thank you for rescuing me, for, I said a bunch of stupid shit, and you're adding more complexity and depth and nuance and.

• 1:31:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, we just got started. I love you, brother. I love you too. I love you to death, man. You know how you, when you begin a podcast, you know, I don't know if you're like this, but for me, I gotta get cooking, you know? Sometimes that's one of the reasons why I like to talk to people. I like to talk sometimes for like 15 minutes even before we go on air. The danger is they're gonna say something and I'm gonna ask them to repeat it. I don't want that. So sometimes I'll come in hot and I'm like, let's just go right now. But your brain, you don't know we're gonna talk about the Mongols and rape, right? And so then all of a sudden, you, we're in this very intense conversation about the responsibility you have as a podcaster, which is a crazy thing to say, but you do, you

• 1:32:24Joe Rogan?

  have probably more responsibility than anybody. And then this subject comes up in the middle of that. And then you, well, you're like, uh.

• 1:32:34Speaker 03

  And before that, we were joking about ejaculating in space.

• 1:32:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's how we started it.

• 1:32:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:40Joe Rogan?

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• 1:33:19Joe Rogan?

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• 1:34:03Joe Rogan?

  to start your search. Because you can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. And because ZipRecruiter helps sort through thousands of resumes and applications, showing you the most qualified and interesting ones first. There's even an option for candidates to explain why they want the job. Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter. We used to have, open up some of the most serious conversations this podcast ever had with a fleshlight ad.

• 1:34:49Joe Rogan?

  Their early days of the podcast, that was the only sponsor we had. So it's like, um, you know, this is again, you reacting to criticism, right? It's like the fear of the criticism of you yourself, knowing you could have done a better job of explaining that, had you prepared something, which is really the difference between off the cuff conversations and like, your, your actual well-considered thoughts on things expressed in the best way possible, which is what you would do if you're gonna write it out, if you're gonna write a Substack piece about it.

• 1:35:22Speaker 03

  Well, one of the things I'm trying to do for myself personally, I think a lot of people have to do this, when young kids have to do this, is figure out how to create like a psychological framework where I'm not affected by the internet. It sounds like ridiculous to say, but you say, "Don't read the comments," but they, they, they get, they come at you. Like, they, they, you'll, they'll find their way, and I need to.

• 1:35:45Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't work. Nobody's, nobody's good at it. Even Elon's not good at it. Just post and ghost. Post and ghost. Post things that you think are interesting and just get out of there. Don't read stuff about yourself. Someone said this, I think it was Anthony Hopkins, he was talking about someone's opinion of him, he said, "That doesn't concern me." Uh, no. Was it Anthony Hopkins? I think it was. But he was like, "Their opinions of me are not my business."

• 1:36:10Speaker 03

  But let's, let's add to this little puzzle. What if a bunch of your friends, say you're getting cancelled online? By the way, Tucker Carlson is good at this. He doesn't read anything.

• 1:36:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he doesn't even have social media.

• 1:36:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:36:22Joe Rogan?

  I know, I always wanna send him things. Like, "This motherfucker's not even gonna look at this."

• 1:36:26Speaker 03

  Uh, what if, like, all your friends have read the thing, right? Like, that you're, or your parents, or so on, your loved ones, like,

• 1:36:36Speaker 03

  and there, the thing could be just a bunch of lies about you.

• 1:36:40Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:36:41Speaker 03

  Like, what, that's, that, like, for me, that's a little bit of a tricky thing.

• 1:36:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's not something you should ignore, right? If you wanna make a statement, there's nothing wrong with that. What I'm saying is, don't regularly, regularly engage in people's opinions of the product that you put out.

• 1:36:56Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:36:56Joe Rogan?

  I don't think it's healthy for you, because I think, first of all, this, you know, I've said this before, I'm only kind of joking, but I'm kinda serious. Most people commenting are losers. Sorry, if you're doing it all the time and you're doing it in a negative way all the time, this is not everybody. There's a lot of like really well thought out commentary on YouTube videos that I see. On if occasionally I'll read someone's Instagram page and I'll read my friends' comments. Some people are brilliant, don't get me wrong, but it is a haven for fuckheads. It's a place where people can go and just try to insult people and say the most negative thing possible.

• 1:37:34Joe Rogan?

  And they generally, I think there's generally a lot of like dull minded people that gravitate towards the negativity. You know where that differs is Christians, which is interesting. Like a lot of like low wattage Christians are still super nice. You know, and they'll just praise Jesus and look for forgiveness, the real ones, right? Which is a great thing that we should all aspire to.

• 1:38:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, like the default state is super nice.

• 1:38:02Joe Rogan?

  Yes, default state, what you're supposed to do if you really follow Jesus's teaching is like be completely nonviolent, be a beautiful person and love everybody like it's your brother. That's, that's what he wants, that's like, you know, and if you follow that, but there's just too many assholes and too many disgruntled people out there that have terrible lives. You know, the most men lead lives of quiet desperation, the Thoreau line that I fucking love so dearly. It's such a great line, that's so true and maybe even more true today because of the unnatural world in which we're thrust in, so not only are people doing things that they hate most of the time, but they're also engaging

• 1:38:43Joe Rogan?

  with their phone more than they are with people, so they're engaging in this very bizarre, non-physical way that is detached from any human interaction, detached from emotions, eye contact, the feel of being with someone, the, the back and forth of a conversation between two people. Like if you and I were gonna disagree about something, if there was like some Political thing or some social thing that you and I disagreed about. We could sit and just, I wanna know why you think the way you think. Like, I wanna know. Like, if you think a thing and I disagree with it, the first thing I wanna know is, and this is not something I always had, I got way better at this in my life as I've gotten older and had more conversations with people.

• 1:39:27Joe Rogan?

  You gotta like, absolutely know what this person thinks. Don't like, attack it, don't twist it around, don't distort it. You have to kinda steel man it, you have to be as charitable to that position as possible. And then occasionally, when you find things that you disagree with, you have to stop and you have to say, okay, here's my problem with this, and it has to be done in good faith. You have to be doing it not to win, you have to be doing it to figure out what's right. And everybody's so fucking attached to their opinions and their ideology that most of the time, most conversations are had where one person, at least on social media, one person's trying to win. You're trying to win all the time, you're playing this stupid game.

• 1:40:12Joe Rogan?

  It's a dumbass game where everybody's a loser.

• 1:40:14Speaker 03

  But we just watched the Piers Morgan thing.

• 1:40:16Joe Rogan?

  That's the same thing.

• 1:40:17Speaker 03

  It clearly pulled in your attention. You're aware of it. See, you love it, you're, you're the, you're part of the problem, Joe.

• 1:40:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, a hundred percent. I'm a huge part of the problem, don't get me wrong.

• 1:40:27Speaker 03

  Meaning you're a human being.

• 1:40:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, yeah, well, also, like, how much do I contribute to people wasting their time? TikTok reels, like Instagram reels, Twitter things, how many fucking Twitter articles get written about every stupid thing I said? I mean, for three days, uh, dragon believer was trending.

• 1:40:47Joe Rogan?

  Just 'cause some wacky old lady thinks I believe in dragons. But this is just the, the nature of the world, I love that aspect of the internet, I love the wacky shit.

• 1:40:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:40:56Joe Rogan?

  Even the Ukraine war footage, which is horrible, what it's doing is giving you a more nuanced version of the world. And some of it's not good, like, I watched a video today of a guy who got killed by a tiger, well, he didn't get killed by a tiger, he got torn apart by a tiger. The wounds, man. The wounds that this guy, like, I didn't think, like, what would a tiger do to you, if a tiger bit your fi- You wanna say?

• 1:41:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you do, I knew you did.

• 1:41:21Speaker 03

  Cause I'm-

• 1:41:22Joe Rogan?

  You're getting a little curious, I'm switching over to Android, buddy.

• 1:41:26Speaker 03

  Welcome.

• 1:41:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I just have a few more steps that I have to do before I switch over. And I'm gonna try to communicate only with encrypted apps from now on.

• 1:41:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, use WhatsApp, Signal.

• 1:41:39Joe Rogan?

  It's just sort of like limiting Twitter replies to registered accounts. You know, to...

• 1:41:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:41:46Joe Rogan?

  You know, people like to do that. I'm gonna try to do that. I'm gonna try to use WhatsApp for everything. I was gonna use Signal, but...

• 1:41:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. I don't know. The people that use Signal, I don't know.

• 1:41:56Joe Rogan?

  It seems too secret, squirrel.

• 1:42:00Speaker 03

  I don't even know what that means, but yeah.

• 1:42:01Joe Rogan?

  You know, like you're a spy of using Signal. I use it, though. I use it all the time. I don't... I mean, I'm totally being hypocritical here. What was I looking at? Oh, the tiger thing. Bro, this one's rough.

• 1:42:13Joe Rogan?

  This one's rough.

• 1:42:16Joe Rogan?

  This is, uh... Tom Segura. I sent it to him today. Tom Segura and I send each other every day the worst shit that we can find on the internet. And it has been, like, legitimately... It's been one of the worst aspects of modern life for me. It's like, every fucking day, me and Tom are sending each other guys getting killed by assassins.

• 1:42:39Speaker 03

  Nice.

• 1:42:40Joe Rogan?

  It's every day. It's... There's so many footage, so many videos of cartel members whacking people, like... After a while, you're like, "Holy shit, I don't know if I could do this anymore." Like, every day, someone's getting run over by a truck. Every day. And you're... That's... So here it is. So this guy, they're shooting at the... Give me some volume, so I can hear this.

• 1:43:03Joe Rogan?

  So they shot at the tigers just before this, 'cause this guy had been bitten up. And so, see, they're shooting at him right now, and the tiger goes like, "Nah, bitch."

• 1:43:15Joe Rogan?

  And the tiger's just biting down on this guy.

• 1:43:24Joe Rogan?

  So this is what the guy looked like. This is his wounds.

• 1:43:31Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:43:32Speaker 02

  He's not dead?

• 1:43:33Joe Rogan?

  Bro. Look at his head.

• 1:43:37Joe Rogan?

  I mean, his bone is exposed.

• 1:43:38Speaker 02

  No, he's moving.

• 1:43:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, he's alive, dude.

• 1:43:40Speaker 02

  What the fuck?

• 1:43:42Joe Rogan?

  Look at his face. Watch me show his face.

• 1:43:50Joe Rogan?

  So this guy climbed into a wildlife enclosure. Those were not wild tigers. It was, uh, they were, you know, I don't wanna say tamed. They're not tamed, but they're some, in some way, at least minimized in their effectiveness. That, you know, uh, our buddy Paul sent me that. Paul Rosely sent me that.

• 1:44:10Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah. So this doesn't remind me of the jungle.

• 1:44:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:14Speaker 03

  Our buddy, our buddy, our buddy Paul is fearless.

• 1:44:18Joe Rogan?

  He's a bad motherfucker.

• 1:44:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:44:20Joe Rogan?

  Paul Rosely's a bad motherfucker. That guy is literally putting his money where his mouth is, where his life is, trying to save the Amazon, like, living in it, helping people, you know, hiring people to guard it, taking people that were chopping the wood, chopping the trees down, and then giving them a new job to protect the trees. It's fucking amazing.

• 1:44:45Speaker 03

  And feel, and he feels the pain, like, he literally, like, physically feels the pain of lost trees.

• 1:44:50Joe Rogan?

  He sent me something, I don't even know if I'm allowed to talk about it, but if, if we're not, I'll edit it out afterwards. But he sent me a video, I can't show the video, but he sent me a video of an uncontacted tribe that they discovered.

• 1:45:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:03Joe Rogan?

  Did he, did he send you that?

• 1:45:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:45:05Joe Rogan?

  Fucking insane.

• 1:45:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's insane.

• 1:45:08Joe Rogan?

  Just complete, uncontacted tribe, naked, in the forest, hundreds of them, and they're, they're like pushing these boats filled with bananas out to them to give them food.

• 1:45:19Speaker 03

  The, the reason, we could probably talk about the, they, they try not to show it so that people don't show up and try to find them.

• 1:45:25Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:45:25Speaker 03

  You wanna kinda protect them.

• 1:45:26Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. That's why I don't know if we could even talk about it, but he has brought up the uncontacted tribes before on the show, and one of his friends was murdered by one.

• 1:45:35Joe Rogan?

  One of the tribes, he was, uh, these guys drop off food to these people and one day they're like, you know what? Enough, whap, I'm just gonna kill you, fuck you, I don't trust you.

• 1:45:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, we, uh, we hung out, we talked to, to a guy that, that works with Paul, that has like a scar from, from a spear.

• 1:45:51Joe Rogan?

  Jeez, jeez, bro. Uh, at least a hundred uncontacted groups in the rainforest. Unbelievable, man. They're living like they were living twenty thousand years ago, maybe even more, you know? Completely uncontacted. That is, that is to me, one of the most fascinating aspects of human life today. It's not just that we're on the verge of quantum computing and AI becoming sentient. It's a, we're coexisting at the same time with people that have a completely subsistence-based lifestyle, with the, the stuff that's around them, you know?

• 1:46:32Joe Rogan?

  Stone tools, literally, pointed sticks for spears. That they've been doing this for thousands and thousands of years. And they're living at the same time as smartphone addiction.

• 1:46:46Speaker 03

  Not only that, those people probably, their roots go, they could be the original civilization. I mean, I, I believe that there is-

• 1:46:53Joe Rogan?

  Look at that, isn't that crazy? Look at those people, that is so wild.

• 1:46:59Speaker 03

  This is taken in June, I think?

• 1:47:00Joe Rogan?

  Man, that would be so, if you could just be a fucking fly on the wall and observe that life, like without interfering somehow. So just remotely, god, that would be so incredible.

• 1:47:11Speaker 03

  You would be doing what the aliens are doing right now.

• 1:47:12Joe Rogan?

  I think that is what they're doing. I think it's real similar, I really do.

• 1:47:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:16Joe Rogan?

  I think, uh, if you just looked at the natural progression of human beings and what we're talking about with quantum computing and AI and the technological innovations that are- Without doubt gonna hit us like a tsunami over the next twenty years, thirty years, whatever it is. We, what are we gonna become? We're gonna become what they are, the same kind of thing. And if there was a planet that had something like us, that's emerging and just figuring out how to split the atom and, you know, and still involved in tribal warfare, a primate that's still involved with tribal warfare, but now has nuclear bombs, that's us. Also dick pics, also, you know, also only fans, also, you know,

• 1:47:58Joe Rogan?

  just massive social media addicts all over the entire planet while we're engaging in tribal warfare with hypersonic weapons. So they would be studying us, the same way we're studying these folks, same thing, you know? When we find out a guy got hit with a spear, like, oh, fuck, what happened? These people are crazy. Like, you gotta be careful. Like, when Paul was saying that they were there and they realized that the tribe was close, like, they were starting to hear things, and they realized they were probably being hunted, and they just got the fuck out of there as quick as they could. That's terrifying. I do not want to wake up to, uh, news on my feed that Paul Rosley got killed by an uncontacted tribe.

• 1:48:38Speaker 03

  Well, he's, uh, I mean, that guy leaps into adventure. I've gotten the chance to hang out with him, and it's great. There's certain people, I haven't met many people like him on the, in the way that you've described, but also in the way where he sees, uh, Elon is a little bit like this, actually. Like, he sees the opportunity for adventure, and he just leaps into it. There's not like a deep deliberate process of strategy and planning and so on. It's just something pulls at him. And that's a really fun person to be with. But couple that with just extreme competence. Like, he's good at surviving.

• 1:49:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:13Speaker 03

  He's just, he's, uh, he's good at taking risks and good at surviving, and that's, uh, so like the uncontacted tribes or the crazy shit we did in the jungle, just like getting lost and have almost dying, all that kind of stuff.

• 1:49:27Joe Rogan?

  And he's a really nice guy.

• 1:49:29Speaker 03

  Super nice.

• 1:49:30Joe Rogan?

  A really nice guy, and it's just like, there's something to that. He's an actual good person. He's really doing this for a good cause.

• 1:49:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, and it's not just the the Amazon rainforest, he's also going to Africa and India and sort of trying to save nature. I mean, I mean, you go out hunting. The the forest is a bit different than like the the the Amazon rainforest. Their life is like

• 1:49:57Joe Rogan?

  A lot different.

• 1:49:57Speaker 03

  It's like real intense, like there's a lot.

• 1:50:00Joe Rogan?

  You're in the middle of a soup of life. When you have that much life, just think about the amount of insects. The bu- you were around it, the buzzing at night. Explain that, what that sounds like.

• 1:50:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's an orchestra. I mean, it's millions of little organisms and

• 1:50:17Joe Rogan?

  Screaming, there's no silence at night.

• 1:50:20Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. They're all fucking.

• 1:50:22Joe Rogan?

  They're all screaming and fucking and killing each other.

• 1:50:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:27Joe Rogan?

  And it's all life eats life all around you. It's life eating life.

• 1:50:31Speaker 03

  And with one of the ways to experience that is the sound. The other way is just standing there. Stuff starts crawling on you pretty quickly, so.

• 1:50:41Joe Rogan?

  Did you get bit by a bullet ant?

• 1:50:44Speaker 03

  No, but you know, step very close to it. There's a lot, I mean.

• 1:50:48Joe Rogan?

  I want to get bit by one.

• 1:50:50Speaker 03

  In in the context here, I would love to get bit by one.

• 1:50:54Joe Rogan?

  Would you do it on the podcast?

• 1:50:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, a hundred percent.

• 1:50:56Joe Rogan?

  If we brought in bullet ants?

• 1:50:56Speaker 03

  Let's go.

• 1:50:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so. You have to take a day off of everything else, I think.

• 1:51:02Speaker 03

  What are you, a pussy?

• 1:51:03Joe Rogan?

  I think you do. I think you don't want to be interviewing some person about AI just sweating, just sweating in agony.

• 1:51:11Speaker 03

  I think.

• 1:51:11Joe Rogan?

  Everybody likes to think they have like super high pain tolerance. You know that about men? It's fun. Men always like to think, oh, man, I got fucking crazy pain tolerance.

• 1:51:20Speaker 03

  Meanwhile, don't women have a much higher?

• 1:51:22Joe Rogan?

  Much higher. You know who's the highest? Redheaded women.

• 1:51:25Speaker 03

  Oh, that explains a lot.

• 1:51:30Joe Rogan?

  This is up for debate, but I sent Jamie something recently. Do you remember that thing I sent you? So we were talking about on the podcast multiple times, because I had read that, that they had a higher pain threshold. I'm like, that's weird. I wonder why. Well, well, because everybody's been fucking with gingers forever. They've been beating their ass. They're like an MMA guy who's got two older brothers. You know, they're fucking, they can take it. The scariest MMA fighters have older brothers who used to beat them up. Because they're ready to fucking throw down all the time. Like, the scariest guys, or abusive stepdad, those two.

• 1:52:03Joe Rogan?

  That makes a scary guy. Or abusive father. The guys that I know that are the fucking scariest, they had abusive dads. They had people that beat them up when they were young. They just get fucking used to going, just ready to go. They don't have a fear of going. They want to go. They want to go all the time. Let's fucking go. Like, they've just been, that's the only way to survive. If you're a kid, and you have a brother who's four years old, and your dad is a raging alcoholic, and he beats your mom in front of you, and your brother beats your ass too, like, fuck, man, you better be hard, or you're not gonna make it. There's no pillow to cry into, man. You gotta fight your brother. He's four years older than you. He might knock you out today. He knocked you out last week. He laughed at you when you were on your back.

• 1:52:44Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, not to return to the topic, but Jangis Khan murdered his older brother because he was picking on him.

• 1:52:51Joe Rogan?

  Because he stole his fish.

• 1:52:52Speaker 03

  Stole his fish.

• 1:52:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he said, "Fuck you." Shot him with a bow and arrow. The mom freaked out. Called him a monster.

• 1:52:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:52:58Joe Rogan?

  She was right.

• 1:53:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, also, you learn how to kill your brother when you're, you know, what was he, six? Wasn't he?

• 1:53:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, something like that.

• 1:53:07Joe Rogan?

  Something like that, yeah.

• 1:53:08Speaker 03

  And he gets married in nine.

• 1:53:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're getting off on the wrong foot.

• 1:53:13Speaker 03

  And conquers an empire at sixteen.

• 1:53:15Joe Rogan?

  But they didn't expect you to live past thirty, you know? If you got to thirty, you were an old fuck back then.

• 1:53:19Speaker 03

  Meanwhile, he lived, like, into his sixties, I think.

• 1:53:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He lived really long, and he was consulting with monks, because he was trying to figure out how to live longer, how to live forever. He was like, you know, he felt the iron ebbing from his blood. He felt the body weaken. He wanted to visit today, be on TRT, be fucking great, kick your ass.

• 1:53:39Speaker 03

  His kids are kind of disappointing. I mean, this, like...

• 1:53:43Joe Rogan?

  Well, of course. Isn't that always the case? That's the thing. Like, show me a man who's a great man, who's the son of a great man.

• 1:53:52Speaker 03

  It's tough.

• 1:53:53Joe Rogan?

  It's tough. It's a hard road. I mean, you have to have a very exceptional father who recognizes the requirements that this kid is gonna go through if you're fucking Genghis Khan's son. And meanwhile, you're also running an empire. Like, raising kids is, it is a very involving thing. And it's a nuanced thing. And you have to know which ones to push and which ones to just let them be themselves, which ones to support, which ones to encourage, and how to encourage, and how to, how to, how to instill discipline, how to show them how, how important it is to feel the pain of loss, and to feel like failure, and to understand that this doesn't make you a bad person. These are just the lessons of life

• 1:54:36Joe Rogan?

  and the energy that comes with doing something well, and throwing yourself into something and finding success, versus half-assing your existence and feeling filled with misery and regret. And that's a difficult thing when you're sleeping on silk sheets. You know, that was like, uh, what Marvin Hagler used to talk about. Like, you know, it's hard to get up in the morning and run when you're sleeping in silk sheets. He was talking about the pull of as you become successful, boxers get softer. And it's because they start getting rich, you know, and then, you know, just chill a little bit. Well, if you have a son then, and the son's growing up rich and you're chill, like, fuck, man. Like, you wanna make

• 1:55:16Joe Rogan?

  a conqueror, you wanna make a, you wanna make a champion fighter, give them a rough childhood. I don't think you should do it. Definitely shouldn't be mean to your kid just so that they could be a badass fighter.

• 1:55:30Speaker 03

  Well, I, I think it's also, there's probably a balance you can hit, but a lot of these folks, because they had nothing, they wanna spoil their kids. They go too far in the other direction.

• 1:55:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:41Speaker 03

  It's, it's not, it's harder to be a strict parent, I think.

• 1:55:45Joe Rogan?

  Mitzi Shore used to ignore, ignore Pauly just to make him funnier. She talked about it. She talked about ignoring him when he was crying. Yeah, it'll make him funny. She was right. She knew what she was doing. But it's like, to do that...

• 1:56:02Joe Rogan?

  If you're a conqueror and you you came up from shooting your brother with a bow and arrow and then raising an army to take back your wife. And then you have children and your children are born when you're forty. You know, and you you've you've got this insane empire that's like one of the most spectacular and impressive military accomplishments. If you just look at it in terms of just like the sheer numbers of human beings they sent into the reincarnation cycle. Like it's fucking, it's a crazy number, man. They killed somewhere between, I think the estimates are fifty to sixty million people.

• 1:56:44Joe Rogan?

  Over the course of his lifetime, ten percent of the population of Earth.

• 1:56:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they, you know, how, by?

• 1:56:51Joe Rogan?

  Brutal, one-on-one contact. Bows and arrows, fire, catapults, swords, spears, trampled.

• 1:57:05Speaker 03

  And through all of that, it doesn't seem like power corrupted the guy. So he was he was big on unmarked grave. No statues were allowed to be made of him, no paintings, no anything.

• 1:57:16Joe Rogan?

  Not just that, they killed everybody that was involved in it. The people that went to bury him, another group came out to kill them. And then another group came out to kill the people that killed them. They came in three waves so that no one would have any idea where Genghis Khan is buried. And we still don't know.

• 1:57:37Speaker 03

  You know, that's one of the the qualities of, there's a perception of Zelensky, sort of the actor, the showman, all that kind of stuff. Some of that is true, but in his interactions that I'm aware of with the soldiers, there is no, like, he wants to be on the exact same level, sleep on the same bunks, no glamour, none of that, which I personally admire in a leader in general, just walk amongst the

• 1:57:59Joe Rogan?

  It's a very admirable thing. I mean, if you're gonna ask people to leave, could you imagine if Biden was at the front line? You know what I'm saying?

• 1:58:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. You may maybe you see Kamala Harris at the front line in Afghanistan. Could you see that?

• 1:58:12Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:58:12Joe Rogan?

  Did you see Obama at the front line? No. Did you see Trump at the front line? Fuck out of here. Seventy eight years old, leave him alone.

• 1:58:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:20Joe Rogan?

  It's a a very admirable thing. And if you know, that's the thing if people have always said, the number one concern that people have with the military industrial complex is sending young men to die in a war that's unnecessary for profit while you are in an air conditioned office. Right?

• 1:58:39Joe Rogan?

  That was um during fear and loathing in Las Vegas. Who was it? McGovern?

• 1:58:45Joe Rogan?

  Did McGovern say that?

• 1:58:48Joe Rogan?

  But it was a very powerful speech. He said, I'm tired of watching these old men in air conditioned offices send young men to die in these unnecessary wars.

• 1:58:59Speaker 03

  Actually, uh.

• 1:59:00Joe Rogan?

  So if you're but if you're willing to be out there too, that's a very different thing. It's a very different thing.

• 1:59:07Speaker 03

  I mean, some people make the argument that a president should moderate how much they do that because

• 1:59:13Joe Rogan?

  You could die.

• 1:59:14Speaker 03

  You could die, but it also wears on it.

• 1:59:19Speaker 03

  To make compromised decisions in the realm of geopolitics and in the realm of war, you have to have a bit of coldness. If you really feel the pain of soldiers, you may make unwise decisions.

• 1:59:32Joe Rogan?

  In terms of diplomatic decisions.

• 1:59:35Speaker 03

  Yes, in terms of, for example, you've seen a lot of people die, children die. And if you've seen enough, there's no, the idea of quote unquote peace is a dirty word.

• 1:59:47Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:59:48Speaker 03

  Like, you want justice.

• 1:59:49Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that a problem right now, not just in Ukraine, but also in Gaza?

• 1:59:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:59:55Joe Rogan?

  I mean, that this is the thing that.

• 2:00:00Joe Rogan?

  The the sheer number of people that died that that had nothing to do with it is crazy. It's crazy. I think the the most recent estimate, and they don't even know because there's so many people that are under rubble. The most recent estimate was somewhere north of sixty thousand people.

• 2:00:20Joe Rogan?

  And how many of them are kids? Like, what's the number of kids that have been killed by missiles that had done nothing wrong? Like, what's that number? And those kids have families. And those kids have mothers and brothers and sisters and some people that lived and some people that died. And whoever makes it out of that, you want to radicalize somebody. You want to radicalize somebody to

• 2:00:44Joe Rogan?

  to to just want nothing but revenge. I can think of no better way. No better way.

• 2:00:51Speaker 03

  And and here Donald Trump is tasked with going in there and trying to make peace. I think I'm pretty optimistic about just knowing the skill set of all the people involved. In Israel, Palestine, and Russia, Ukraine, I'm pretty optimistic about.

• 2:01:08Joe Rogan?

  I can't believe those people. Those hostages are still alive.

• 2:01:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:01:12Joe Rogan?

  How many of them are still alive now?

• 2:01:14Speaker 03

  I don't know what the exact numbers are. But it's crazy that the the they were not freed sooner.

• 2:01:20Joe Rogan?

  The whole thing's horrible, from top to bottom, including all the people that have decided what happened. People that are saying it was definitely a false flag, like, boy, these things are complicated. These things are complicated. It's definitely like whenever something horrible happens and someone fucked up, like someone fucked up. Israel is the most protected place on earth. It's one of the most secure countries on earth. For them to let something like that happen is just a huge fuck up. But what I had heard was that there was also a lot of troops that were stationed near where there were protests.

• 2:02:00Joe Rogan?

  So there was a lot of protests about Netanyahu before October seventh happened, which most people aren't even aware of. There was hundreds of thousands of people in the streets protesting Netanyahu before October seventh. So then October seventh comes and then, you know, all of a sudden, now, whenever you have any sort of military engagement, any sort of, you're at war right now.

• 2:02:23Joe Rogan?

  When those things happen, one of the first things that happens is all the protests and all the bullshit stops because now a bunch of people got killed. And when anything like that happens and you are now involved in a countrywide assault on this other country, everything else gets put aside. And so the big conspiracy fear has always been when a leader knows that they're going to get pushed out, they'll start a false flag or start a war. So they look at October 7th and they say they let that happen. Or they say they they had knowledge of it, they knew it was going to happen, they knew it, but they wanted an excuse to raise Gaza. They wanted an excuse to just have a full-on bombing campaign against Hamas.

• 2:03:07Speaker 03

  I mean, you definitely need to look at the incentives there. That is one of the concerns in Ukraine for for President Zelensky. The the the prospects of ending the war, because right now the country is unified. If you end the war and you have elections, now you have to face a lot of the consequences internally about the potential discovery of corruption, about the suspension of democracy, about all of these things. And the same thing with Netanyahu, who, by the way, also, I they want to do a three-hour podcast with me. I talked to him before October 7th for an hour. I I regret talking to him for an hour. One of the things I really learned a lot from you and from just myself, you can't you

• 2:03:52Speaker 03

  can't do. One of the things I really don't like what happened with me talking to Donald Trump is like 40 minutes with Donald Trump. It it was a mistake, they didn't really, there was a.

• 2:04:04Joe Rogan?

  I was almost willing to do that with Kamala Harris. I was entertaining, I was entertaining the 45-minute one. I was entertaining because I was like, maybe if I could just come in at a 10 to like work my brain up, like really come in and just engage with her real quick. I just wanted to get, I wanted to get loose. I don't, the problem is like, I wanna see how you are as a real person.

• 2:04:28Speaker 03

  I, I think actually genuinely with you and Kamala Harris, I think forty-five minutes is horrible, but I think you're so skilled and like compassionate, just like, it's fun, it's fun to talk to you. I think you would just end up being much, much longer. That's, that's the hope.

• 2:04:43Joe Rogan?

  If that's the hope, yeah. There would be questions though, and there's some questions would be very complicated, like the immigration question. Like I would say, what's happening? Like, what is happening? What's, what do you, do you think that there should be limitations to this? Do you think it should be stopped outright? Do you think we should round up all the people that we know that are terrorists that made it across? Are we keeping track of them? Do we know how many? Do we know what happened? Do we know why it happened? Why are people opposed to the idea of cracking down on Border Patrol? Making more, you know, making more soldiers available, putting walls up everywhere. Like, what is the reason to not do this? Like, tell me what you're thinking. And when people start talking about labor, they're talking about bringing in labor and then our, our population is lower.

• 2:05:25Joe Rogan?

  Like Chuck Schumer brought that up, talk about like, we need workers. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are we saying? We don't, is there, is that really what the problem is? That Americans aren't willing to do jobs? And you, you wanna bring in illegal people? How about just make legal immigration easier for poor people that are trying to get over here? How about just scan them, screen them, make sure that they're not fucking murderers? Make sure they're not cartel members and then let them in easier? Like, wouldn't that be a better way to do it, to vet people? But the idea of not vetting people just doesn't make any sense at all. That would have been a problem. That conversation would have been a problem because it doesn't make any sense at all. And I'm a, I'm a grandchild of immigrants. I, I believe in immigration.

• 2:06:09Joe Rogan?

  I think, I think America is the fucking shining light in the world. Like, if you can get here, you can actually make something happen. There's not a caste system. They actually reward people from, you know, started from the bottom, now we're here. Like, that's a thing here. Although that's Drake, he's Canada. But it's that, that, that thought.

• 2:06:28Speaker 03

  That's gonna be America soon, right?

• 2:06:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're gonna take over Canada for sure. Yeah, that needs to happen. Yeah, fifty-first state. Let's go. Puerto Rico's next. You gotta become a real state now, Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico's got a weird thing where you're allowed to not pay taxes, but you can't vote. Do you know that deal? That's the Peter Schiff deal.

• 2:06:47Joe Rogan?

  You don't, yeah, you don't vote, but you don't pay federal income tax like, alright. I feel like I think you're gonna go to jail someday. I think one day they're gonna fucking pull you aside and go, we changed that rule and you owe us four billion dollars in back taxes, you fucking criminal. What are you doing out here?

• 2:07:07Joe Rogan?

  Hanging out on this island, just stealing money.

• 2:07:10Speaker 03

  But yeah, we definitely need legal immigration, the idea of bringing like the best people in the world here.

• 2:07:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:16Speaker 03

  But also, Mark Andreessen talks about this, like, we need to make sure we recruit like the Midwest, the farm boys.

• 2:07:24Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:07:25Speaker 03

  Get them to like, do epic shit inside, you know, Americans.

• 2:07:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, here's step one. Ramp up the fucking education system.

• 2:07:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:34Joe Rogan?

  Jesus Christ. At what point in time do we not say, how far do we have to slip down the list of like the best performing students in the world before someone comes along and says, hey, the whole thing about this place is if our kids are losers, they're gonna grow up to become loser adults.

• 2:07:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:52Joe Rogan?

  Make it way easier to be a winner. What's the best way to do that? Have a way better education system. Just imagine if they completely revamped the education system in this country, just poured a shitload of money and had the wisest minds come up with a brilliant strategy for more creative ways of approaching learning, pushing people into viable pathways that maybe didn't even exist when the education system was structured. Because things have changed so much in the world. You could probably do a way better job than we're doing, which would make people come out of that, they would emerge better qualified people. So we would get more shit done in America. So America would prosper overall.

• 2:08:35Joe Rogan?

  The GDP would grow, the fucking, everything would be better. You'd have less poverty. You'd have, this is, that's where they need to start. Just not just let in all the immigrants. How about fix what we got here and then expand that outward? Like, make this place the best it can be and then expand that idea out to the rest of the world. So instead of like, letting everybody walk here from third world countries, because third world countries suck, expand what's better out to the rest of the world.

• 2:09:07Speaker 03

  And a big part of that is actually culturally changing. Uh, accepting, celebrating, venerating meritocracy.

• 2:09:14Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:09:15Speaker 03

  The guy in the class, see I, you know, having gone to school in Soviet Union, like, I was good at math. And I was actually, believe it or not, super cool. Because I was good at math in class when I was like little. Like, I was the cool kid because I was good at math. Like, I was getting like.

• 2:09:32Joe Rogan?

  In America, we think you're a dork. Isn't that fun? But no, no, no, I, I think it's wrong. I think they're wrong. You should get violent. You should. But I think they're wrong because, but it's a fascinating thing to make fun of the smart kid.

• 2:09:45Speaker 03

  It's, it's, I mean.

• 2:09:46Joe Rogan?

  Especially math. Look at that fucking robot over there.

• 2:09:49Speaker 03

  Science, but actually just.

• 2:09:50Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that weird?

• 2:09:51Speaker 03

  But honestly, even. Yeah, I mean, in all walks of life. Sports is a little better. We do celebrate great athletes, but there's still kind of this, the participation trophy thing. There's still a kind of sense where. We want to help the people that aren't quite as good at a thing.

• 2:10:10Joe Rogan?

  That's only with little kids, though. Sports, sports are.

• 2:10:13Speaker 03

  But it starts there.

• 2:10:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:16Speaker 03

  Well, how little, like.

• 2:10:17Joe Rogan?

  Sports, once kids get into like the teenage years, sports is a meritocracy.

• 2:10:22Speaker 03

  Yes, but culturally, do we really say like, this is like, this is amazing that this person is winning?

• 2:10:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:30Speaker 03

  We, we do get there.

• 2:10:31Joe Rogan?

  I want to take you to a Texas football game.

• 2:10:33Speaker 03

  Well, Texas is different. I mean, Texas is Texas.

• 2:10:35Joe Rogan?

  This is what America should be. This is what America should be. It should all, that it should all be fired up.

• 2:10:40Speaker 03

  But not just about football.

• 2:10:43Joe Rogan?

  No, about all kinds of things.

• 2:10:45Speaker 03

  Everything, music, math.

• 2:10:46Joe Rogan?

  Problem. Football, like.

• 2:10:48Speaker 03

  Physics.

• 2:10:48Joe Rogan?

  Quarterbacks, get laid. Alright, that's a handsome guy. He's gonna have a beautiful life. Okay, scientists.

• 2:10:54Speaker 03

  Physicists in the Soviet Union will get a lot of pussy.

• 2:10:57Joe Rogan?

  What about Feynman?

• 2:10:59Speaker 03

  Well, he got, yes.

• 2:11:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:00Speaker 03

  But he's another level.

• 2:11:01Joe Rogan?

  A lot of those guys were freaks, right? Oppenheimer, you saw the movie. He was a freak.

• 2:11:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:05Joe Rogan?

  Those guys were studs because they were the smart people and there was a lot of grad students that wanted to fuck the professor. And that was normal stuff back then.

• 2:11:13Speaker 03

  But I don't know if they were studs in the general population.

• 2:11:17Joe Rogan?

  They were studs in a way. They were like, look, Einstein was a national hero, right? There's no one like that today. There's no one scientist that's a groundbreaking research of theory of relativity where everybody's aware of it. There's nothing like that today.

• 2:11:33Speaker 03

  We celebrate people like maybe like Neil deGrasse Tyson who are communicators of science.

• 2:11:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but not to the same extent. Like he's he's criticized way more than Einstein ever was. Einstein was pretty celebrated. It's just and even Feynman, like for the people that knew him, like he was a he was a cultural figure. He wasn't an obscure name. Like if you brought up Richard Feynman, most people that like watch the news and read newspapers probably know who he is if they were in their 30s. That's not the case today for, you know, say someone who's groundbreaking research with AI or someone who's involved in quantum computing or just is just a few of these science communicators, you know? Brian Cox, like guys like him were great at it when in terms of like space.

• 2:12:20Joe Rogan?

  You know, and some guys are better at it in terms of like talking about AI or talking about all he does just all the different emerging technologies because there's so many of them. But there's no one person who's like our other than Elon, but Elon's like such a unique character. You can't even like, you can't put him in the same category as in Einstein because he's just like a cultural weirdness. Like who is this guy like making memes, cracking jokes, dunking on people, telling people to go fuck themselves, buys Twitter, you know, and runs a bunch of different companies simultaneously while playing video games constantly. It's like that doesn't fit in anywhere else. That's like a very unique thing that exists, this Elon Musk guy.

• 2:13:05Joe Rogan?

  Like he's one of the most unique human beings in all of history.

• 2:13:08Speaker 03

  But you can even move to like even the Jeff Bezos, who by the way successfully launched the first

• 2:13:17Speaker 03

  rocket yesterday to orbit.

• 2:13:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:19Speaker 03

  Which is which is incredible.

• 2:13:20Joe Rogan?

  Amazing.

• 2:13:20Speaker 03

  Even he is gets like, I think that's that should be that that should be venerated.

• 2:13:25Joe Rogan?

  Sure, but he's not the guy that's making the he's not doing the calculations and designing and engineering the machines.

• 2:13:33Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:13:33Joe Rogan?

  Like Werner von Braun was. So it's like what we're fascinated by today is different. It's like we're fascinated by these public figures that talk about the work that's being that's going on. But the people that are actually doing it, there's not like one standout.

• 2:13:48Speaker 03

  Although to say both Jeff Bezos and Elon are legit good engineers, like they to see them on the factory floor, they know what they're doing.

• 2:13:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure. But like the thing about Elon is weird. It's like he just does so many things. You get you get confused. Like, how can you do this? And I was talking about possibly buying TikTok. Like, I wonder if they would go after him if he did that. Would that be like a minute? But but but Bezos, or rather Zuckerberg, rather, they bought Instagram, right? So they have Facebook and Instagram, right? And then they like, why couldn't you have TikTok and Twitter?

• 2:14:20Speaker 03

  What are you talking about monopoly wise? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think they'll go after them. They're trying to split up Google right now, Alphabet.

• 2:14:26Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:14:27Speaker 03

  Like to make maybe Chrome or YouTube its own business. I think.

• 2:14:33Joe Rogan?

  There's an argument.

• 2:14:34Speaker 03

  There is some argument, but like they.

• 2:14:37Joe Rogan?

  The crazy thing about YouTube is how effective it is, right? Like YouTube is just think it's like seems so straightforward. You just have a place where people can upload videos. Okay, that's straightforward. Everybody should be able to make one of those. But no, there's just one.

• 2:14:52Speaker 03

  Really hard to actually pull that off on the engineering side to be able to like.

• 2:14:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:14:57Speaker 03

  Just there's there's just no other place like it to be able to host that much data.

• 2:15:00Joe Rogan?

  The scale, just the volume, the volume of fucking data that comes into their site every day.

• 2:15:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, it just and then there's people, of course, online sort of criticizing YouTube for censorship, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, it's like.

• 2:15:14Joe Rogan?

  Which they should though.

• 2:15:15Speaker 03

  They should, but like, hey, more people need to be like this. This fucking thing exists. It's like Wi-Fi on the airplane. It's like this is there's no other platform like YouTube in terms of like the set of features, the community they create, the search and discovery.

• 2:15:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:30Speaker 02

  Do you think Apple regrets having it one of being one of the first built in apps on the iPhone that could have had a lot to do with the growth?

• 2:15:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, definitely did, I'm sure.

• 2:15:39Speaker 02

  They didn't make it, but they included it.

• 2:15:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:15:42Speaker 02

  Also, Google Maps was too, until they made their own.

• 2:15:44Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, you probably wanna have the best shit on your phone if you want people to buy it. You're kinda trapped. Everybody knows YouTube is the best shit. And if you get YouTube on an Android phone natively, instantly, which you can. When you get an Android phone, it already has YouTube loaded onto it. Why wouldn't you load it on an iPhone? Everybody uses YouTube. You gotta pick your battles.

• 2:16:04Speaker 02

  It was 2007, though.

• 2:16:06Joe Rogan?

  That's true.

• 2:16:08Speaker 02

  Couldn't have three-minute videos back then.

• 2:16:09Joe Rogan?

  You're right. They probably didn't realize how big YouTube was gonna be, right? But what they did do, that's the sneakiest thing that drives me crazy, is the 30%. So like, if you start an app, you put an app in the App Store, the Apple Store, 30, they get 30%? Like, that's crazy.

• 2:16:27Speaker 03

  But because YouTube dominates so much, if people get censored, that's really painful, like that, like that's not...

• 2:16:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're so, they're so in control of the video market.

• 2:16:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:16:38Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, I don't envy it. It's gotta be an insane place to try to manage. But it's just kinda wild that no one else has been able to come up with anything even remotely close. You know, you've got Rumble, they do really well. But it's like, Rumble's like a very conservative, ivermectin-using libertarian sort of space.

• 2:16:58Speaker 03

  It's like the opposite of Blue Sky. Like, Blue Sky is like...

• 2:17:03Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. But there's a lot of like, left-wing shows on Rumble. Rumble's essentially like a legitimate free speech platform. They don't censor left-wing views, you know. Isn't Breaking Points, are they on Rumble?

• 2:17:16Speaker 03

  I watch them on YouTube.

• 2:17:17Speaker 02

  I was thinking Twitch for a while, though, was kinda close, and then Amazon bought it.

• 2:17:20Joe Rogan?

  Right, right. Twitch was close.

• 2:17:22Speaker 03

  I mean, uh...

• 2:17:23Joe Rogan?

  But then when Amazon bought it, it's something like Twitch kinda disappeared.

• 2:17:26Speaker 02

  It's still a thing, but it doesn't make money. It's not profitable, which arguably neither is YouTube, but once you put it in a...

• 2:17:31Joe Rogan?

  But isn't that crazy? Like, if they didn't buy it, maybe it would've been, because Twitch was huge.

• 2:17:35Speaker 02

  It still is.

• 2:17:36Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:17:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, that's what kids watch.

• 2:17:39Joe Rogan?

  But a lot of kids, they stream everywhere now, right? And there's a bunch of, like, is video games different? Are they like a bunch of different?

• 2:17:45Speaker 02

  Twitch became more, it was just on TV, and it's kinda reverted back to it now. Like, most of the popular stuff is IRL streaming, people walking around, going places, doing shit, streaming, going, you know... Doing nonsense.

• 2:17:57Joe Rogan?

  That's so weird. And so, um, what are the video games streamed on? What does everybody like?

• 2:18:02Speaker 02

  It's still that. There's been a few other ones that have tried. People like YouTube tried to do it. Facebook tried to do it. Microsoft tried to do it.

• 2:18:08Joe Rogan?

  It didn't work?

• 2:18:09Speaker 02

  Twitch is still.

• 2:18:10Speaker 03

  No, I watch video game streams on YouTube.

• 2:18:12Speaker 02

  Still if you're there, Twitter's now tried to do it, but like the Microsoft one went away. Um, YouTube doesn't really advertise the live streaming stuff very well. Uh, you can find it, but it's not.

• 2:18:23Joe Rogan?

  So essentially it's just Twitch for video games.

• 2:18:27Speaker 02

  It's dominant for sure.

• 2:18:29Joe Rogan?

  Dominant. Okay. So Twitch didn't go away. I'm just old. So it's, um, I thought there was a bunch of new ones that were good though, that people were using.

• 2:18:37Speaker 02

  Kick took off, but it's not. Everyone sort of went back to Twitch after they made deals there.

• 2:18:42Joe Rogan?

  So was that a deal where they like get like a famous streamer? And they say, hey, we're going to give you money to come over to this new platform. And then they try to start the platform.

• 2:18:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it's a good idea. You buy everyone to come over and hopefully everyone sticks. Just didn't stick.

• 2:18:54Joe Rogan?

  But just think about the resources you would have to have if you wanted to take on YouTube. Like, look if Elon had decided like, okay, we need to turn X into the new YouTube.

• 2:19:05Speaker 03

  Well, he kind of wants to do that, right?

• 2:19:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Which is kind of what he, but if you wanted to start a separate app. Cause Twitch, or excuse me, X is still mostly people exchanging information. Mostly exchanging hyperlinks.

• 2:19:18Speaker 03

  The closest thing it's to is like TikTok on the video. The short video clips is, is good. So I could see actually Elon buying TikTok. It makes, it makes total sense and integrating into X.

• 2:19:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:30Speaker 03

  But in terms of long form content, it's just not quite there because you have to implement all of these features. And, uh, it is engineering wise, really difficult to have that much video.

• 2:19:42Joe Rogan?

  You can, we can, we upload hours at a time.

• 2:19:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:46Joe Rogan?

  Hours. So think about it, like each one of our shows is at least two hours, three hours mostly. That's so much fucking data. If you're letting everybody do that, how much are you paying for bandwidth? Like, what is that like? Because it's free? And then you have to get ads? And you have to like, and then the ad's like, hey, we don't want anybody saying fuck. Oh, shit. All right, put up a filter. Get rid of all the fuck so that Paul Molle can sell their fucking hand soap. Whatever it is, whoever's getting upset at us. Oh, did someone talk about the vaccine? Yeah, you can't get an ad because we're trying to sell vaccine ads. So don't be a cocksucker. Don't ruin my giant business that I've created on your data.

• 2:20:26Speaker 03

  But it is surprising that nobody's built a competitor.

• 2:20:29Joe Rogan?

  Not even close.

• 2:20:29Speaker 03

  And it just shows how incredible the teams are, right?

• 2:20:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, they nailed it. This is what they did. They made the perfect algorithm to constantly show you things you're interested in. You know, when I go to my YouTube feed, they're right every day. Every day they're right. I'm like, oh, I'm interested in that. Oh, when was that built? Oh, look at that. Oh, is that real? But they got me every fucking day.

• 2:20:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I actually tweeted complaining a little bit about YouTube recently. And we had a whole meeting and stuff.

• 2:20:58Joe Rogan?

  What were you complaining about?

• 2:21:00Speaker 03

  So they have this incredible, I don't want to complain about Wi-Fi on the airplane before saying the positive. So they have this incredible feature called MLA multi-language audio. I don't know if you know about this, but you can have multiple tracks of audio for a single podcast or video in different languages. So I had to do that for Zelensky interview. That's overdubbed into three languages for the different.

• 2:21:22Joe Rogan?

  Did you use AI to do that or did you hire people?

• 2:21:25Speaker 03

  So did both, but in this case we did AI because of the voice cloning. You want, there's something really intimate and powerful about hearing the person speak in that language. And I've just found out that, you know, for example, on audio, people listen to the Zelensky interview. He's, it's dubbed into English. He's speaking Russian or Ukrainian. They listen and they enjoy it. Like they, they, you could see the numbers. You could see how they write to me personal messages, how they, you know, on Instagram stories. They're listening to it in English.

• 2:21:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:21:58Speaker 03

  And they're able to listen to it for a prolonged period of time, like it's in English.

• 2:22:03Joe Rogan?

  Did you review it and listen to it and make sure the context translates correctly?

• 2:22:09Speaker 03

  So I should give a shout out to a company called Eleven Labs that do the voice cloning, that do the translation in this, what's called text to speech. They're incredible people. Not just the product, actually, there's certain companies that. I work with. Nothing frustrates me more than incompetence and nothing excites me more than competence. Like, they're just sweet people. By the way, like, stayed up, crazy hours through the holidays. A lot of big companies, like, take, like, two months off. They're just, there's, you know, they're nine to five. They're all very polite. There's a manager of a manager and there's meetings and it's slow and there's this bureaucracy. And with, with Love and Labs, with a lot of startups, good startups, you like,

• 2:22:52Speaker 03

  have this just vibrancy and kindness and everybody's excited, all that kind of stuff. Anyway, they do the, the text to speech. You know, you have, like, text on the page that you can speak in the Joe Rogan voice. I mean, you're aware of this. So, if you want to translate, you first translate, transcribe the original language, tra- uh, translate it on the page and then text the speech, uh, bring it to life in that other different language. The translation step is the tricky one, is the hardest one, where a human should correct and help. I got,

• 2:23:32Speaker 03

  I, I mean, we had very little time to do this. We had to do it really rapidly. But you get into trouble. So, for example, he said-

• 2:23:39Joe Rogan?

  How much time did you have?

• 2:23:42Speaker 03

  I don't, don't remember the exact number of days, but probably five or six days to do everything. So-

• 2:23:48Joe Rogan?

  In three languages?

• 2:23:49Speaker 03

  In three languages. And he and I did the asshole thing, which is we kept switching languages sentence to sentence.

• 2:23:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 2:23:57Speaker 03

  Cause we, we kept, and like, and he would swear in Russian mid-sentence. So, of course, the translator's like sweating, cause the, most of the sentence is Ukrainian and then he says fuck or go fuck yourself. He swore a lot. Like, you know, uh, that, that part would be in Russian, the, the swear. So, you have to catch all of that.

• 2:24:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:17Speaker 03

  You have to not make mistakes. And some of it, there was AI in the loop. We had to figure out, cause nobody really has done this kind of thing before. So, we had to figure it all out. And mistakes can be made when you're rushing like this, rushing like this.

• 2:24:32Speaker 03

  Like I just did. By the way, me saying that could be transcribed into me saying Russian and then it'd be translated like that.

• 2:24:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:24:40Speaker 03

  So for example, we said, he was talking about corruption, sensitive topic. He said something like, anybody who we caught doing something with the weapons or being corrupt, we would beat, the exact term is beat them on the hands. He was speaking Ukrainian, which in Ukrainian means we'll crack down on them. That was automatically translated to slap them on the wrist.

• 2:25:07Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, interesting.

• 2:25:09Speaker 03

  Which, which makes sense as a direct literal translation.

• 2:25:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:25:12Speaker 03

  Beat them on the hands, slap them on the wrist, makes sense. But like, and I didn't catch it. I'm not sleeping. I'm like, reading it. I speak all the languages, so like, I'm trying to like, figure out this puzzle. And we didn't catch it. And then of course, like, a lot of people got really mad and they spoke up. You know, the, you know, the internet in general is like, how can you translate this? Are you, of course, it must be because I'm a Putin shill and getting funded and I'm not translating. But yeah, that's, you see, it's very, there could be sensitive moments. Like you had a lot of really high-profile figures here. There could be sensitive moments if translated, could do a lot of damage. On the flip side, it makes it accessible, especially for important conversations.

• 2:25:56Speaker 03

  It makes it accessible to people that really need to hear it.

• 2:25:59Joe Rogan?

  Why were you under such a time constraint?

• 2:26:02Speaker 03

  Because the seriousness of the conversation, like the, every single day, there's major missile launches.

• 2:26:10Joe Rogan?

  So did you, it just, you didn't have a five-day deadline? You just, it took you five days to do it?

• 2:26:16Speaker 03

  Yes, and the, I don't want to sort of put it on them, but the President Zelensky's office...

• 2:26:26Speaker 03

  Was asking like

• 2:26:28Joe Rogan?

  When's this just coming out, right?

• 2:26:30Speaker 03

  They were really pushing it and they were implying probably correctly That there's just going to be a lot of dynamic stuff happening on the on the peace negotiations. So he wanted to use this as a statement and the same because you know Um, the the Kremlin watched it, so everybody's watching it and like It's part of the puzzle pieces that they're using to figure out when are we going to meet? When are we going to, what are going to be the outlines of a of a treaty? You know, so like you have to take it very seriously, but then, you know, I've learned a lot because I Uh, you need to probably hire more Uh, and trust everybody involved and turn it around much quicker, you know?

• 2:27:11Speaker 03

  Um, you you know me, um, but in terms of production, everything, the team is one person. And then there's now, uh, folks happening with helping with editing, but it's just tiny team, there's no. And so for things like this, you have to take it seriously. You have to like maybe have like a special Special force team that kind of steps up and helps.

• 2:27:33Joe Rogan?

  Right, a group of people that are translators that you could Really count on to get it right.

• 2:27:39Speaker 03

  Because a lot of the

• 2:27:39Joe Rogan?

  Review it, but you would want to have to personally review it anyway.

• 2:27:43Speaker 03

  Hundred percent, but that you want the translators you trust to do a good job. And one of the things we learned really quickly is you can't just get any translator there. I mean, translation is an art, it truly is, and like people were that were translating it. It's like open my comedy.

• 2:27:58Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:27:59Speaker 03

  It really like

• 2:28:00Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:28:01Speaker 03

  You think Even the same joke in the mouth of different comics would just be way different. And the way they were translating it was cold. They were missing the points, they were not understanding the context.

• 2:28:15Joe Rogan?

  And the AI way is genius.

• 2:28:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, but the translation piece of the AI is still needs the human in the loop. It needs the human to fix it.

• 2:28:24Joe Rogan?

  And how does the human emphasize emotion? Like if he has a a specific intonation, if the way he's like, he's talking about, how does the? How does AI know how to say the words in translation and which ones to emphasize?

• 2:28:42Speaker 03

  So this is where Eleven Labs is really incredible, but they, it uses the actual words to figure out the intonation.

• 2:28:49Joe Rogan?

  So the, okay, so the translation of the words?

• 2:28:52Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:28:53Joe Rogan?

  Or the original word, hearing the word?

• 2:28:55Speaker 03

  No, it's always working on the text, so let's just stick with English for now before I say translation. Text on the page, uh, I've, like, I have a Twilight Zone speech here. Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies. That feels like a serious thing, like, we can probably infer how to read that. If I gave you that text, you would infer the heaviness, the timing.

• 2:29:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:29:21Speaker 03

  And AI is pretty good at doing that, not perfect, and you can.

• 2:29:24Joe Rogan?

  What if you delivered that speech like Hitler?

• 2:29:30Joe Rogan?

  Like, I want to know, like, how are they getting the, like, when Hitler would yell about stuff and then they had a translation of it in English? And so are they doing it off text or are they doing it off the sound of the, like, when he's saying the words and translating it? Because then you would know he's conveying a certain amount of emotion. Or are they editing it in post and saying, he's got to be louder here, he's yelling? Is a human involved in that?

• 2:29:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, there are human involved in every part of that, so they're setting the hyperparameters of like, how, yeah, like, how loud is it, how like dynamic it is? They can, they can change all of that and they can change specific, they can basically generate, you know, like, five different options for the sentence and then.

• 2:30:16Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 2:30:18Speaker 03

  But that is an art form, right?

• 2:30:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but it really is so crazy that we're not going to be able to tell if you said something.

• 2:30:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:30:25Joe Rogan?

  Like, we're kind of there. There's, there's real cheap ones of me selling everything, I see all the time on Instagram. Like, you know, different rappers and country-western songs and go to this pus- go to this restaurant. Like, you just generate them from AI. But you could still kinda tell. But then I've seen some ones, I'm sure you've seen that one, the one guy where it's a completely AI-generated thing, voice and everything, and he's talking and he's telling you like this is completely AI-generated. And you probably can't believe this, but it's true. He's explaining how it's done and it's nuts. It's so realistic.

• 2:31:01Speaker 03

  And I mean, I should say, like, from my experience with the Zelensky conversation, it's dubbed into all these languages, it's dubbed into English. He's speaking Ukrainian and Russian. There's a lot of people, like, I've seen this, that think he's speaking English. Just because it's so close.

• 2:31:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:31:17Speaker 03

  It's his voice.

• 2:31:19Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 2:31:19Speaker 03

  And so like, now I have this responsibility, here I am with my fucking exhausted, sleep-deprived, translating like his exact words, I could put whatever words in his mouth. Like, I could have, the slap on the wrist thing, I fu- you know, um, let me just take responsibility, I guess. I fucked up, you know, it was three hours, it's very tough to like.

• 2:31:37Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:31:39Speaker 03

  But like, I could have, you know, put in like, I like dicks in there.

• 2:31:45Speaker 03

  Just, just throw it in there, you know, just for fun.

• 2:31:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's kinda crazy, right?

• 2:31:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it's out, and there's a lot of people that believe like, okay, this is what he's saying.

• 2:31:53Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:31:54Speaker 03

  So I mean, there's a huge responsibility with that, and I think that's why people trust a particular podcast and so on, like, you're not going to fuck with that responsibility.

• 2:32:03Joe Rogan?

  Right, no, you're very, um, aware of it. And you take it very seriously.

• 2:32:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's still hard to decide who and how to talk to. It was really, really difficult to think through the Zelensky conversation. It's difficult to think about whether to talk to Putin or not and how to talk to him. It's difficult to think about Benjamin Netanyahu, to talk to him after October 7th. He's one of the most universally hated people on the planet now.

• 2:32:27Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:32:28Speaker 03

  And it's like, okay, so how do you?

• 2:32:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:32:30Speaker 03

  Talk to him?

• 2:32:31Joe Rogan?

  And what, what do you get him to say about the innocent people that have been killed?

• 2:32:36Speaker 03

  But he has a certain perspective, which I should say that a lot of people inside Israel probably support.

• 2:32:43Speaker 03

  It's, I mean, I should also say, not now, but earlier, in Qatar, when Hamas was in Qatar, they were interested in doing a podcast.

• 2:32:56Speaker 03

  The the members of Hamas who are not in hiding. So the representatives were interested in doing a podcast. And there I decided not to because it's like, everyone knows what Hamas is. It's almost like easy, why not do a podcast? But it was like, well, that just feels, I mean, you are platforming hate there. That's in a way where you can't properly dissect and present and analyze and push and pull.

• 2:33:25Joe Rogan?

  You can't criticize them. You're not going to be in a position where you can criticize them.

• 2:33:32Speaker 03

  Well, I should say in Qatar, it's safe.

• 2:33:35Joe Rogan?

  What's that?

• 2:33:36Speaker 03

  In Qatar, it's safe. So there I could criticize. And in fact, one of the ways I would imagine talking to Hamas is pushing them actually pretty hard. In that case, I would actually push hard and they would probably, because a lot of them are kind of just pretty shallow and insane. So like they would just get really angry. Like there's a be real anger. They would not come off as, one of the fears talking to dictators is just the charisma. Like they would, you know, my opening statement to Netanyahu was, you know, a lot of people hate you. When I talked to him in August, a lot of people were protesting outside. There's a lot of people that hate you.

• 2:34:20Speaker 03

  What do you get to, what do you have to say to those people? Right, that's the opening thing. He says, like, he said something like, everybody loves me. I just gave a talk in Iran and 20 million people listened to me and they love me. So that's like, so how do you talk to a person where the reality is like, well, no, no, there is people that love you. Prime Minister Netanyahu, but there's quite a lot of people outside that don't, that don't love you.

• 2:34:52Joe Rogan?

  What did you expect him when you brought that up? Did you have expectations? Would you expect him to say?

• 2:34:59Speaker 03

  I expected for him to analyze where that hate comes from, to start to empathize, fake or not, to understand that perspective. And to understand the perspective maybe of the Palestinians or the Gazans that hate him.

• 2:35:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:35:15Speaker 03

  And then maybe make the case of Israel like.

• 2:35:19Speaker 03

  After steel manning the Palestinian case, say, well, listen, we're like this tiny country that everybody's shooting rockets at. Make, then make the case for Israel, the historic case, the military case, the geopolitical case.

• 2:35:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:35:34Speaker 03

  But he didn't, it was, there was like, uh, everybody loves me.

• 2:35:36Joe Rogan?

  Jeez.

• 2:35:37Speaker 03

  But in that answer.

• 2:35:39Joe Rogan?

  Do you think he really believed that?

• 2:35:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:35:41Joe Rogan?

  He believed it. He's locked in.

• 2:35:43Speaker 03

  Locked in. But, uh, or, I mean, it's complicated. He's just so, that was definitely a wall.

• 2:35:51Joe Rogan?

  How much more time does he have in power?

• 2:35:53Speaker 03

  I mean, that's a, it's a consistent minute by minute thing. He, as long as he is being elected. And it's, it's the same question for Zelensky. How long does he have in power? It's the same question.

• 2:36:07Joe Rogan?

  Like, when, when does Israel have their elections again? Are they doing that while they're in the middle of this conflict?

• 2:36:12Speaker 03

  Uh, I'm not deeply familiar with like the dynamics of it, but I think they can have elections at any time. Like there's, there's coalitions.

• 2:36:20Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 2:36:21Speaker 03

  That can, I think it's, a bunch of countries have this kind of thing. So, uh, I think there's elections like coming up. There might be a martial law type of situation. Forgive me, I'm not exactly sure, but it's, it's basically under constant internal political pressure where he can lose power.

• 2:36:38Joe Rogan?

  Are you aware at all of, uh, his political opponents?

• 2:36:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's, there's a bunch, there's a bunch of, there's a bunch of people, um, I mean, they have to, uh, walk a tight rope because there is a lot of fear and anger inside of Israel now. Like you said, after October 7th, there's like an existential fear when the, the whole assumption of Israeli people was that, like, this, this kind of attack cannot possibly happen.

• 2:37:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:37:07Speaker 03

  With the Iron Dome, with the, the defenses. And so you have a more, um, there's more room, there's capacity to elect more radical people that are more right wing, they're more aggressive, they're more militaristic.

• 2:37:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is why we, the, one of the big reasons why people. Love to dive into the false flag narrative. Cause they find an incentive for people to allow something to take place. Because if you allow something to take place and you sacrifice a certain percentage of your population. You um, you have now new rules. And you have much more power and you have a society that's behind you now. Cause there's a reason why they wanna fight. And this is why anytime there's anything that ever happens, there's a bunch of people that think it's a false flag. Bunch of people think nine eleven was a false flag. And then there's real ones that we know about, like Operation Northwoods. Didn't happen, but they really did sign, Joint Chiefs of Staff signed a proposal.

• 2:38:05Joe Rogan?

  Where they wanted to blow up American airliner and blame Cuba. We wanted to arm Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay. And they wanted to invade Cuba under false pretenses of a false flag. We really do stuff like that. Like it's, it's a, and I say by we, I mean humans. Humans in power Nero burned Rome, like Hitler burned the Reichstag. There's, there's false flags that they, they create these situations to force people to fight. And um, that's a real thing. But it's also, it's also like, people get caught with their pants down too. So it's like, it's hard to know what's what. It's hard to know what's what.

• 2:38:49Speaker 03

  But the same organization that did the whole pager thing. The uh, the sophisticated intelligence.

• 2:38:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:55Speaker 03

  Required for that somehow missed an obvious breach of a uh.

• 2:39:01Joe Rogan?

  Right. And they were warned by Egypt.

• 2:39:05Joe Rogan?

  The whole thing is, it's very, it's very, very, very tragic.

• 2:39:10Speaker 03

  Jamie, just quick request. Are you tracking the Starship launch?

• 2:39:14Joe Rogan?

  I know you wanna watch, we've got five minutes, I think.

• 2:39:16Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:39:17Joe Rogan?

  Four minutes, we, it's three fifty-six right now. So uh.

• 2:39:19Speaker 03

  Fuck yeah, I wanna watch it.

• 2:39:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know you do.

• 2:39:21Speaker 03

  America.

• 2:39:22Joe Rogan?

  We're gonna, we're gonna wrap it up with that. Um, is it launching live?

• 2:39:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's live, yeah, yeah.

• 2:39:29Joe Rogan?

  Let's hope it doesn't blow up. That'd suck. What if it blows up while we're watching?

• 2:39:33Speaker 03

  I don't think uh, at this stage blowing up, I mean, it would be really awesome if it doesn't blow up. If it flies and then it's caught by the.

• 2:39:40Speaker 02

  In thirteen minutes.

• 2:39:41Joe Rogan?

  In thirteen minutes, okay, we got time. Jamie, keep an eye on it.

• 2:39:45Speaker 03

  At this time, I mean, it's called Starship Test Seven for a reason, like you wanna, you wanna, you wanna learn.

• 2:39:50Joe Rogan?

  Blow a few up every now and again, find out what the tolerances are.

• 2:39:53Speaker 03

  It is nice for Jeff Bezos to succeed on the first try, like the first one is really important because there's a lot of skepticism, could this even be done? Uh, new, with the new Glenn rocket, but.

• 2:40:05Joe Rogan?

  And now, uh, Bezos and Elon are homies again.

• 2:40:08Speaker 03

  Homies.

• 2:40:08Joe Rogan?

  They're expressing platitudes on, uh, Twitter.

• 2:40:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're, uh, they're gonna sit together at the inauguration.

• 2:40:16Joe Rogan?

  What, Jamie?

• 2:40:16Speaker 02

  Um, I'm trying to check, something, I'm not finding the right video.

• 2:40:20Joe Rogan?

  Okay, no worries.

• 2:40:22Speaker 02

  Where should I go? Because I tried typing SpaceX and.

• 2:40:24Speaker 03

  Uh, yeah, be really careful, just find the official SpaceX channel, or you can go on X.

• 2:40:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, go on X.

• 2:40:32Speaker 03

  There's gonna be a bunch of bots selling you crypto if you're not careful.

• 2:40:37Speaker 02

  SpaceX on X.

• 2:40:38Speaker 03

  Don't go on Pornhub, that's a different one.

• 2:40:40Joe Rogan?

  You can't go on Pornhub in Texas.

• 2:40:43Speaker 03

  This is violation of human rights.

• 2:40:45Joe Rogan?

  That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.

• 2:40:48Speaker 03

  Are you going to the inauguration?

• 2:40:51Joe Rogan?

  Perhaps, are you?

• 2:40:52Speaker 03

  Unfortunately, yeah.

• 2:40:53Joe Rogan?

  Really? Unfortunately?

• 2:40:54Speaker 03

  Socializing, all the socializing.

• 2:40:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you're doing it on purpose for work?

• 2:40:59Speaker 03

  No, I, I just, no, I, I, this, I've never, I never go out to things for work, I don't work. Uh, it's more like, I felt like it's an opportunity, like.

• 2:41:11Joe Rogan?

  To meet people?

• 2:41:12Speaker 03

  No, like you would regret it if you didn't go, like it's a historic, it's a historic moment, and also George St. Pierre said he's gone, so.

• 2:41:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay. Yeah, I think Gordon's gone too.

• 2:41:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, um, it's a very different thing this time around, people are very hopeful with him as president now, which is very different than in two thousand sixteen. Two thousand sixteen was like this existential crisis that the media just blasted into everybody's head. I think, uh, enough time has passed and enough faith has been lost in the media that people have sort of woken up out of that and realized, like. We can't keep going the way we're going.

• 2:41:48Speaker 03

  I hope the good vibes continue in general, like the politicization of everything will not escalate quickly here.

• 2:41:57Joe Rogan?

  It's possible. It's possible.

• 2:41:59Speaker 03

  Even the inauguration itself, you know, like I hope, I hope they're not, it's not a divisive event, it's more of an inspiring event.

• 2:42:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's gonna be divisive with some people. There's no getting around that. Some people, just their psychology. Like that lady in the pink that was yelling, like the lady that said that Pete Hegseth said that when he really didn't say it, he just published it. Someone else wrote it.

• 2:42:23Speaker 02

  This is thirty seven minutes?

• 2:42:25Joe Rogan?

  Thirty seven, we don't have that kind of time.

• 2:42:26Speaker 02

  This just went live, so it doesn't say anything.

• 2:42:29Joe Rogan?

  Just a big old SpaceX. There it is. Is that it? Sitting there chilling?

• 2:42:33Speaker 02

  I'm trying to double check most of these. They all say thirty seven minutes and counting.

• 2:42:36Joe Rogan?

  Wow, man.

• 2:42:37Speaker 03

  No, let's see.

• 2:42:38Joe Rogan?

  Who's Felix?

• 2:42:39Speaker 02

  These are just channels.

• 2:42:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so a bunch of different channels are going?

• 2:42:43Speaker 02

  There's tons of channels with it. So I'm trying to find the most accurate or real one, because someone could be live streaming a fake one.

• 2:42:49Joe Rogan?

  What are they live streaming, though? Is there?

• 2:42:52Speaker 02

  All sorts of stuff.

• 2:42:53Joe Rogan?

  Does SpaceX have its own page?

• 2:42:56Speaker 02

  So that's, I just typed, I just went to live on YouTube. This is where I was bringing up a Twitch, like it's hard to find stuff that's live.

• 2:43:02Joe Rogan?

  Does SpaceX have an account?

• 2:43:04Speaker 02

  That's, when I typed it in, that's when he was bringing it up. You start getting all sorts of crazy shit, and I get like SpaceX, all these weird, that's not them.

• 2:43:12Joe Rogan?

  That's not them? SpaceX Live?

• 2:43:13Speaker 02

  That's, that would not, they wouldn't put that in their official account.

• 2:43:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:43:17Speaker 03

  You know what? SpaceX might have just closed their YouTube channel, I'm guessing, like because they want to do it on X, right?

• 2:43:23Speaker 02

  Makes sense, so I went to there and that's what it's showing anything yet.

• 2:43:27Joe Rogan?

  How weird.

• 2:43:28Speaker 02

  Went up three minutes ago.

• 2:43:29Joe Rogan?

  So it's just a bunch of fakers pretending to be SpaceX, SpaceX Live, like that? You're not SpaceX.

• 2:43:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43:37Joe Rogan?

  Tricking me into looking at your channel.

• 2:43:39Speaker 02

  They're boosting the algorithm.

• 2:43:40Joe Rogan?

  I guess. So this is it?

• 2:43:42Speaker 02

  This is an older one, I think.

• 2:43:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, this is old?

• 2:43:45Speaker 03

  And some of them, um... Everyday Astronaut is really great. I recommend people stream him. He's a great. Wait, I feel like, have you talked to him? I'm not exactly sure. But he was, he went after Bart, what is his name?

• 2:44:00Joe Rogan?

  Cibral?

• 2:44:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:44:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, did he?

• 2:44:03Speaker 03

  He's really, I mean, and not went after, I should say, just he used the opportunity to educate, like, he like, has this really long.

• 2:44:10Joe Rogan?

  Gotta get the two of them in the same room.

• 2:44:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure. That's what he wants. He keeps being on my case, like, I wanna debate him.

• 2:44:16Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever have Bart on your podcast?

• 2:44:17Speaker 03

  No, but Bart wants to debate him. I was like, hey, do I want this? Right?

• 2:44:22Joe Rogan?

  Of course you do.

• 2:44:23Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:44:24Joe Rogan?

  Shut the fuck up. Do it.

• 2:44:26Speaker 03

  I think, I think there's a, yeah. It's, it's something that happened in the past, like, what are we gonna learn from it? Say it was completely fake, right? What's the, I, I would rather focus on modern day conspiracies.

• 2:44:39Joe Rogan?

  What? You don't wanna know if they faked the moon landing? Are you crazy?

• 2:44:43Speaker 03

  No, I do wanna know, but like, okay.

• 2:44:45Joe Rogan?

  To me.

• 2:44:45Speaker 03

  How does your life change?

• 2:44:47Joe Rogan?

  A lot.

• 2:44:49Joe Rogan?

  A lot.

• 2:44:50Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:44:50Joe Rogan?

  This is how.

• 2:44:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:44:51Joe Rogan?

  Because you know.

• 2:44:52Speaker 03

  That government is able to do this.

• 2:44:53Joe Rogan?

  That the government is able to fake the fucking moon landing and to get people to shut their mouths.

• 2:44:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:44:58Joe Rogan?

  And a bunch of people disappeared.

• 2:45:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I agree with you.

• 2:45:01Joe Rogan?

  The story is nuts, dude.

• 2:45:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:45:04Joe Rogan?

  Do you know the story about, god, what was his name? I don't remember, but he was a journalist.

• 2:45:10Joe Rogan?

  What was he assigned to do?

• 2:45:12Speaker 03

  The one that got murdered?

• 2:45:13Joe Rogan?

  He was assigned to do an audit of NASA. And he wrote hundreds of pages. And his analysis, this is like nineteen sixty-four, sixty-five, sixty-six, somewhere around then. So it was years before the moon landings.

• 2:45:34Joe Rogan?

  God, I can't remember his fucking name. I used to have this shit at the tip of my tongue. But he parked his car with his family in it on a train track. And a train smashed their car and the, the document was never retrieved. It was, it vanished. It went away. Bye-bye. And then a few years later, everyone's on the moon. Gus Grisham, the pilot of Apollo One, the guy that burned alive in that thing, he hung a lemon on that thing, saying that it would never work. They couldn't communicate with the tower. How's this thing supposed to get us to the moon? And that guy, you know, people, his family believes he was murdered for that. There's a lot of weirdness in the moon landing, buddy.

• 2:46:19Speaker 03

  See, Tim Dodd.

• 2:46:20Joe Rogan?

  If they really did pull it off.

• 2:46:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:46:23Joe Rogan?

  And then all these people are cuckin' for the fucking government of the 1960s, it's kind of hilarious.

• 2:46:29Speaker 03

  Wait, they pulled off the fa- the fake?

• 2:46:30Joe Rogan?

  The faking.

• 2:46:31Speaker 03

  The faking.

• 2:46:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:32Speaker 03

  So, Tim Dodd, everyday astronaut, apparently has an answer to all of this.

• 2:46:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 2:46:36Speaker 03

  He's a...

• 2:46:37Joe Rogan?

  What's his answer to the Van Allen radiation belts?

• 2:46:39Speaker 03

  There is an answer. I'm not, this is, I'm not gonna turn this debate into, I don't, uh...

• 2:46:43Joe Rogan?

  It's a cute one. Whatever it is.

• 2:46:45Speaker 03

  The answer?

• 2:46:46Joe Rogan?

  Whatever, it has to be cute. Like, to, to, to send people through thousands of miles of intense radiation and have no biological animal that you've ever done that to that's come back alive? And just, let's try it on people.

• 2:47:01Speaker 03

  So let me try to convince you, as an agent of the Mossad and the CIA.

• 2:47:07Speaker 03

  I know, I think, okay, this is from me, uh, looking at Wikipedia for about five seconds. So, I thought, uh, I thought the belt is not all the way around, so you can go around the belt.

• 2:47:18Joe Rogan?

  No, you can get through the top and the bottom, but you have to fly out of Antarctica.

• 2:47:21Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:47:22Joe Rogan?

  And you really can't do that.

• 2:47:23Speaker 03

  And then...

• 2:47:23Joe Rogan?

  The way we did it, we had to go through it. And we had to go through it, I think it was for a couple hours. Um, maybe it's possible.

• 2:47:32Speaker 03

  And we're gonna find out soon, right?

• 2:47:34Joe Rogan?

  Uh, hopefully, unless they go through Antarctica. Um, there's, so it's like a donut. That's what it is. The intense band of radiation is like a donut.

• 2:47:44Speaker 03

  But apparently the, the actual amount of radiation is not that, uh, intense. I mean, again, speaking as a Mossad CIA agent.

• 2:47:51Joe Rogan?

  It depends on who you're asking. Van Allen thought it was pretty fucking intense. And also, there was, uh, Operation Starfish Prime. Do you know about that? Operation Starfish Prime, they were trying to blow a hole through the radiation belt, so they launched nuclear weapons into space and detonated them. And it had the opposite effect, like, supercharged the radiation belt.

• 2:48:12Speaker 03

  I love humans.

• 2:48:13Joe Rogan?

  Made it more radioactive.

• 2:48:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:48:15Joe Rogan?

  Operation Starfish Prime, Google that.

• 2:48:18Joe Rogan?

  What's that?

• 2:48:18Speaker 02

  I think it was temporary, like it just, and it dissipated over time.

• 2:48:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:48:21Speaker 03

  Jamie is also a Mossad CIA.

• 2:48:24Joe Rogan?

  No, no, he's right. No, he's right. But I mean, like, when they measured it. When they measured it, it was like way more radiation. They didn't blow a hole through it at all. They fucked it up. They supercharged it. But just the fact that they were trying to do that, they were trying to blow up nuclear weapons in space, like if I was the aliens, that's when I would start showing up. Like, look at these fucking assholes.

• 2:48:45Speaker 03

  High altitude nuclear tests. What, what are people doing?

• 2:48:49Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, it shut off the power in Hawaii. It fucked Hawaii up. Hawaii had like a brownout. Like, these guys are psychopaths. Can you imagine, like, sitting at a table with a bunch of generals, and this guy comes in with a cigar?

• 2:49:04Joe Rogan?

  I wanna launch a fucking nuke in space. I wanna see what happens. I just wanna see what happens. You know what my favorite one of those is? The very first detonation of the very first nuclear bomb. There was a non-zero chance that that bomb was gonna destroy the entire atmosphere of the earth.

• 2:49:21Speaker 03

  Just imagine what that feels like, right?

• 2:49:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And they were like, let's see.

• 2:49:25Speaker 03

  Let's see.

• 2:49:25Joe Rogan?

  Boom. Nope, we're still here. They were reasonably sure that it wasn't gonna do that. But, you know, you've never done that before. Who knows?

• 2:49:33Speaker 03

  And there's a lot of people asking the question of, like, in the war in Ukraine, whether Putin is willing to use even tactical nuclear weapons.

• 2:49:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:49:43Speaker 03

  Just send a statement. That's an open question.

• 2:49:45Joe Rogan?

  It is an open question.

• 2:49:46Speaker 03

  And it's like a terrifying possibility. We, I think, generationally have forgotten what nuclear weapons are.

• 2:49:52Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:49:53Speaker 03

  Like, most people think it's like a fun TikTok meme.

• 2:49:56Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 2:49:58Speaker 03

  The mushroom cloud could just, and then, and then what happens next?

• 2:50:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, more of them. Two back and forth, back and forth. Now, everything's gone. Everything's gone like that.

• 2:50:08Speaker 03

  And that's why I'm excited about Starship launches, cuz the backup, the backup.

• 2:50:13Joe Rogan?

  Get the fuck outta here! Let's live on the sex cult on Mars.

• 2:50:17Speaker 03

  Uh, no, I, I love Earth. I prefer Earth. The sex cult.

• 2:50:22Joe Rogan?

  Right, but if you had to be a person who lived and Earth was gonna blow, you'd probably try it. You'd try, you'd say, "Listen, maybe we can, maybe I'm gonna be the fucking Davy Crockett of Mars." And then, years from now, this would be a mall. And everybody would remember when Lex came over on the rocket.

• 2:50:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:50:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:42Speaker 03

  I mean, it's really, it is exciting to see what kind of societies form on Mars. Even just a hundred people, a thousand people, ten thousand people, a hundred thousand people.

• 2:50:49Joe Rogan?

  What are the, um, prospects of terraforming? Cause the problem is, like, Mars is too far from the sun. Like, it's just not warm enough. Like, so, what are they gonna do? In terms of, like, oxygen and... Do you know, uh, Terrence Howard, the actor?

• 2:51:04Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 2:51:05Joe Rogan?

  You know, Terrence Howard's theory? He's got a great theory. It's a really interesting theory. He thinks that all solar systems, that instead of it being like a collection of debris from, you know, the outer galaxies, there's that too. But what it really is, is the sun is ejecting matter. And we know that, right? So, a- after millions and millions of years of sun ejecting matter, the matter coalesces and becomes a planet. As it gets further and further from the sun, it becomes more hospitable to life. As it gets into that Goldilocks zone, where Earth is, it peoples. And then he thinks that this is happening all throughout the galaxy.

• 2:51:49Joe Rogan?

  That planets get to a certain stage and then they people. And then, those planets are slowly gonna move further and further out, away further, and get colder and colder. And it's up to these creatures to figure out how to get the fuck out of there before it becomes inhospitable. And that's where the advanced civilizations come in. And this is why he thinks the most advanced civilizations are on the planets that are the furthest from the sun. Cause they're the ones who've adapted and figured out a way to exist off of some other form of energy other than just sunlight.

• 2:52:20Speaker 03

  Wait, does he have an idea about which planets in our solar system might be peopled?

• 2:52:24Joe Rogan?

  Probably used to be Mars.

• 2:52:25Speaker 03

  Mars. Still, or no?

• 2:52:27Joe Rogan?

  No, there's nothing on there now. I mean, it's not hospitable. But there could have been, there was an atmosphere.

• 2:52:33Speaker 03

  There could be life there. Now, there's water there.

• 2:52:35Joe Rogan?

  There could be, well, there's probably some sort of bacterial life, right? There's probably, the real question is, is there any evidence that there was other life? Like, think about how difficult it is for us to find like dinosaur bones, right?

• 2:52:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:52:48Joe Rogan?

  Like dinosaurs have to become a fossil. It's like, it's a very complicated process. They have to die in mud or something. They have to get covered up and then they calcify. And if you don't know, when you get a fossil, the bone that's fossilized, it's not really that bone. What it is, is it's been re-mineralized by all the earth elements. And so it's, it's kind of a different thing, but it's in the shape of the bone. That's fossilized bone. And what if you're talking about like thirty million years, fifty million years, a hundred million years, two hundred million years, a billion years? What if Mars a billion years ago had life on it? What would be left?

• 2:53:28Speaker 03

  Nothing. That mean, in that case, nothing.

• 2:53:30Joe Rogan?

  What would be left?

• 2:53:31Speaker 03

  Nothing.

• 2:53:32Joe Rogan?

  Like, Earth is four point something billion years old, right? How old's Mars? Do we know? How old's Mars?

• 2:53:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's good estimates for that.

• 2:53:39Joe Rogan?

  Like, is Mars older?

• 2:53:40Speaker 03

  I believe it's older, yeah.

• 2:53:43Joe Rogan?

  So that's pretty similar.

• 2:53:46Joe Rogan?

  Right?

• 2:53:46Speaker 03

  When did the solar system start forming?

• 2:53:48Joe Rogan?

  See, these are just wild guesses by a bunch of fucking eggheads.

• 2:53:53Joe Rogan?

  Bunch of eggheads with wild guesses. I'm going with Terrence Howard. I think he's right. I think, what a brilliant idea, though.

• 2:54:00Speaker 03

  I'm offended you call him an actor. He could be a mathematician, physicist.

• 2:54:04Joe Rogan?

  He's a lot of things. Brilliant guy.

• 2:54:06Speaker 03

  His conversation with you, with Eric, with Eric Weinstein and you was just, is art.

• 2:54:13Joe Rogan?

  It's a good conversation.

• 2:54:13Speaker 03

  Some conversations are art.

• 2:54:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was a good one. Cause he's a good guy. He's a good guy and Eric's a very good guy, the way he handled it. You know, he was stern and, and very clear and obvious that who is right. But very kind and very friendly, which is a quality that Eric has. Like, the ability to do that, especially when you're talking about something that's so incredibly complex and esoteric. You know, like, you're, you're talking about like, super complicated math and he's showing it to him. Do you know how to do this? Like, you're showing it on the board and you could tell he doesn't know how to do this? He's like, let me explain how this works. And then you realize like, oh, boy. Self-taught. You know? This is the thing, like, there's a lot of brilliant people that just don't get the correct education, but they're still brilliant.

• 2:54:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, the raw horsepower is there.

• 2:54:59Joe Rogan?

  Yes, the raw horsepower is there, yeah. But I think this theory that he has about planets peopling, I find it so fascinating. I couldn't stop thinking about it for days. I was like, I think he's right.

• 2:55:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, we're gonna find out, we're gonna find, like, e- e- even if you discover bacteria on Mars.

• 2:55:17Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:55:18Speaker 03

  That, that's gonna change everything, okay? I'm convinced that there's alien life throughout the, even the galaxy. But, that's a really open question, and most people don't think so.

• 2:55:31Joe Rogan?

  You know what I think? I don't think it gets past where we are very often. I think it probably fucks up a lot. I think it's too difficult to harness the power of the sun while you're a tribal monkey. And not blow yourself up, or fuck things up horribly, or just get involved in natural disasters that you didn't adequately prepare for. I mean, we're still not prepared at all for asteroid impacts.

• 2:55:57Speaker 03

  I mean, yeah, Younger Dryas impact theory, it's very recent.

• 2:55:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and also supervolcanoes, we're not prepared at all. If we have a supervolcano, if Yellowstone blows, which it's gonna, one of these is gonna, one of the big ones is gonna blow, they just do. It might blow a hundred thousand years from now, it might blow next week. They fucking happen, and we're not prepared, we're not prepared for that.

• 2:56:16Speaker 03

  Even if you just look at the LA fires, sorry to interrupt, like, imagine the chaos that's going to be created.

• 2:56:21Joe Rogan?

  Oh, and imagine the LA fires with no fire department.

• 2:56:24Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:56:25Joe Rogan?

  Okay, imagine that, imagine that there's no one out there trying to put that fire out. That would be fucking insane. And, you know, I think civilization has probably gone through a gang of those before. I think Graham Hancock, as much as he gets criticized, I think he's on to something. I think Randall Carlson is as well. I think they're on to something. I think that's probably the end of the Ice Age, it's probably asteroid impacts. There's too much physical evidence that corresponds with the timeline for it to be ignored. I mean, it's a pretty accepted theory now, the Younger Dryas impact theory. It's just like, what happened during that time, and what existed before that time? And all the stuff that we see a few thousand years later, is that a reimagining of civilization out of complete and utter chaos?

• 2:57:10Joe Rogan?

  Because I think it might be, and it might be one of the reasons why we're so fucking barbaric. It might be that our ancestors were the ones who survived the most horrific time in history.

• 2:57:22Joe Rogan?

  Where we got hit by asteroids and civilization just evaporated instantaneously. Millions of people probably instantaneously died. We were left with chaos in a completely different climate. Places that were covered in ice are now raging rivers. The whole thing's fucked. All the animals are dead. Most people you know that are anywhere near the impact are dead. People get washed away in the floods. Entire civilizations just were instantaneously flooded and destroyed. That could happen again. That could happen again tomorrow. That could happen again next month. It's, we're in the shooting gallery. We're in the shooting gallery of the universe. And I bet that's pretty common.

• 2:58:04Joe Rogan?

  So I bet the race is to try to get intelligent enough that you can do all these different things, but also intelligent enough that you abandon these ancient primal instincts that you have. And that's where we're, we're at the cusp of that. We're at the cusp of our, our tribal chaos mixed in with impossible knowledge. And it's all like happening at the same time. And so there's this wild race that's going on. And people like you and people like me and people that are hopeful, we hope we get it right. We hope we get it right, but we might not get it right. And I think out there in the universe, I think it's probably more likely that people don't get it right than do get it right.

• 2:58:50Joe Rogan?

  And if they do get wiped out, I mean, we got the Toba volcano. We got down somewhere around 70,000 years ago to a few thousand people on earth. What are those motherfuckers like? Like, Jesus Christ, those, those are our ancestors. Those people must have been brutal.

• 2:59:06Speaker 03

  Well, that's one of the things I've just seen, even on the, on the smaller scale of the war in Ukraine is, you know, your house or the city gets destroyed.

• 2:59:17Speaker 03

  And people adapt immediately, like the tough people rise up, like it changes you immediately. There's a resilience to the human spirit, it's crazy. You can adjust, so if an asteroid hits Earth, like the United States, you know, let's say seventy percent of people dead.

• 2:59:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you get to unlock power that like your character in the video game has.

• 2:59:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, there, this is where the people in Texas immediately become

• 2:59:44Speaker 03

  the valued commodity versus like, I don't know, people in Silicon Valley or something.

• 2:59:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:59:48Speaker 03

  Technology doesn't matter, none of that matters, survival matters, individual, radical individualism matters. And that's one of the things that gives me hope.

• 2:59:55Joe Rogan?

  Community matters.

• 2:59:57Speaker 03

  Local, very local.

• 2:59:59Joe Rogan?

  You gotta band together.

• 3:00:00Speaker 03

  But like, it really is a tension of, because it's not collectivism, it's not like.

• 3:00:05Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:00:06Speaker 03

  So governments that rely on central authorities fall apart from that kind of thing.

• 3:00:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, one hundred percent, any natural disaster, government, like a real big one, like an asteroid impact, it's gone, the government doesn't do anything anymore, they're useless. Power goes out for a month, they're gone, everybody's gone. It's any man for himself, no one's protecting you from outlaws. You're seeing that already in the California fires. There's gangs of kids, hundred at a time, breaking into houses and looting them in the middle of these evacuation zones. You're seeing chaos. They can't protect you from that if something happens. And this is something we're not prepared for. We're spending so much time doing other things and not recognizing the incredible vulnerability that our society has.

• 3:00:53Joe Rogan?

  This very fragile system that we put in place that's so much better than at any time in human history. This is the best time to be alive, ever, by far, and it's so fragile. And we don't think it's fragile because the power stays on.

• 3:01:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, one of the things, you know, just having traveled across the world, like the thing that really America stands out with and why I'm excited about what's happening now is the radical individual freedom. I think the freer the country is, the individual, back to Genghis Khan with the freedom to practice religion, the freer the people are, the more resilient they are to the terrors, the catastrophes of the world.

• 3:01:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:37Speaker 03

  They just respond, they're much more dynamic. The more centralized and collectivist the society is, the more you're susceptible to corruption, to this kind of propaganda, that, you know, you're not able to respond to even like the pandemic. The just governments are not able to do that. The Fauches of the world will always emerge.

• 3:01:55Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:01:56Speaker 03

  They just, it's not even, say even Fauci wanted to do the right thing or something. It's just, it's very, it's impossible for the centralized authorities to do the right thing. You have to have a distributed, you have to put much more weight on the freedom of the individual.

• 3:02:11Joe Rogan?

  That's a really important thing that you just said. It's impossible for the centralized authorities to do the right thing. It really almost is, if they want to do their job.

• 3:02:18Speaker 03

  That's why Doge, I mean, there's a lot of problems there.

• 3:02:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:02:22Speaker 03

  You want to decrease the power, the size, and the bureaucracy of the federal government. You want them to be mobile, agile, small, efficient, and distributed to the state or to just to small companies, to companies.

• 3:02:37Joe Rogan?

  And how about stop going after the American people? How about that, too?

• 3:02:40Speaker 03

  Which part?

• 3:02:41Joe Rogan?

  In every part? All sorts of things, all sorts of things. You know, attacking people, what's happened with this country because of January 6th and their version of it and what actually happened. Then, you know, the, what the FBI did with the Twitter files, with influencing things, what they did with Facebook, where they contacted and were taking, telling them to take down memes.

• 3:03:10Speaker 03

  Can I actually just say about that? I don't know if he gets enough credit, but I think what Mark Zuckerberg did on your podcast is actually, it may not seem that way, but it's courageous.

• 3:03:19Joe Rogan?

  I think it's courageous. I think he had to do it, too. I think it's both things.

• 3:03:22Speaker 03

  But like internally, he's running a gigantic company.

• 3:03:25Joe Rogan?

  He's running a gigantic company, but also, this is the way things are rolling. Like, you either get in the way and get rolled over, or you get on board. And if you want your company to succeed in today's day and age and not be disdained and universally,

• 3:03:46Joe Rogan?

  whether it's, whether people boycott it, or people just start hating on it, the stock drops, like,

• 3:03:53Joe Rogan?

  if a new thing that's like Facebook, because Facebook is, although it's so common, it's one of those ones you could do without, kind of. It doesn't have the kind of information gathering aspect that X does. Like, if I want to find out what's going on in the world, I go to X. Facebook's not like that. It's like people talking about stuff and posting videos and things, like.

• 3:04:15Speaker 03

  I mean, there's also WhatsApp.

• 3:04:16Joe Rogan?

  That one could take a hit. That could take a big hit.

• 3:04:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:04:20Joe Rogan?

  If people just decided, like, fuck you and your censorship, you know? And I think more people are inclined to say fuck you and your censorship now than ever before. So it's a good business decision to stop censoring people. And the community notes thing is fucking genius. It's the greatest invention ever, in terms of, like, the ability to find out what's right or what's wrong. Let's let people post things, and it was not true. Enough people report it, people look at it and go, oh, it turns out that's not true at all, and here's why it's not true. That shit's huge. It's huge. It's funny when Elon gets community noted, too. Even he gets community noted.

• 3:04:53Speaker 03

  It's so great. It's so great.

• 3:04:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you get community noted, son. Everybody does. But it's, um, it's the best way. It's the best way to find out what's real and what's not real. But then it's also like, you know, should you let people on your platform that are just fucking straight-up Nazis and trying to recruit people? Should you let horrible racism exist on your platform? The problem is that slippery slope, man. If you say no,

• 3:05:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:05:19Joe Rogan?

  If you say no, then you, then other people are gonna decide. You remember punching Nazi, what people saying you should punch a Nazi? I remember, like Kurt Metzger was, he was like, well, who fucking gets to say who's a Nazi? If it was just like a guy, you know, running a gas chamber, yeah, punch a Nazi. But if it's just some guy who doesn't think that a trans woman should be competing against his daughter in high school sports, like, that's not a Nazi.

• 3:05:47Joe Rogan?

  Like you've you've changed the term.

• 3:05:50Speaker 03

  I thi- I think the slippery slope is important. There's there's people like Pavel Durov who's running Telegram. And he was, you know, Europe, uh, rest in peace, is going after him, uh, for like.

• 3:06:01Joe Rogan?

  He got arrested.

• 3:06:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, because there is legitimate terrorists talking to each other on Telegram, but like, what's the what's the alternative?

• 3:06:10Joe Rogan?

  But if it's an encrypted app, how are you gonna stop it? How are you gonna stop? If it really is encrypted, if they can't read it, right? Like, this is WhatsApp. If you use WhatsApp, if you and I message each other on WhatsApp, no one can read it but us.

• 3:06:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, but the government wants the backdoor. That's what they wanted with Telegram.

• 3:06:26Joe Rogan?

  But that's crazy, because you could use that backdoor in all kinds of ways. Like, they use that backdoor for Signal. That's how they found out that Tucker Carlson was talking to Putin's people about setting up an, uh, an interview. He was like, "We know you did it on Signal." Tucker's like, "I didn't even know you could do that!"

• 3:06:43Speaker 03

  That's what Tucker says.

• 3:06:44Joe Rogan?

  You think Tucker's lying? How dare you?

• 3:06:46Speaker 03

  He's not lying.

• 3:06:46Joe Rogan?

  You son of a bitch. You are a Russian plant.

• 3:06:49Speaker 03

  No, CIA and Mossad and Russian, yes, for sure.

• 3:06:52Joe Rogan?

  All of them? How'd you get on all of them?

• 3:06:54Speaker 03

  You gotta, you gotta.

• 3:06:55Joe Rogan?

  I made to the meeting, bro. I wanna see what happens. I wanna see what they do with that goat.

• 3:07:01Speaker 03

  Uh, you're gonna.

• 3:07:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, Tucker said they read his Signal.

• 3:07:04Speaker 03

  Well, it's very possible, uh, but technologically, I'm not sure how it's possible to do that. I mean, it's possible that I'm.

• 3:07:11Joe Rogan?

  But the way it's been explained to me is even though your phone is encrypted, it's not encrypted. Do you? Like, you see it, right? You see his messages. It's encrypted peer-to-peer, right? So if they can just see your phone.

• 3:07:23Speaker 03

  You mean there's some kind of screen recording type of thing?

• 3:07:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a hundred percent. Not just screen recording. Get access to your phone. Find out all your contacts, all your emails, all your passwords, all of this.

• 3:07:33Speaker 03

  Signal communications end to end encrypted, so it's difficult. I mean, it's possible, it's difficult.

• 3:07:36Joe Rogan?

  But it's not through Signal. If you're going through the phone. So if you're using Pegasus, you're just compromising the entire phone. If you if Signal's on that phone, you you know the passwords already. You go into Signal, you can go in anything.

• 3:07:47Speaker 03

  Oh, in that way? Yeah, got it.

• 3:07:48Joe Rogan?

  You're you have access to the phone.

• 3:07:50Speaker 03

  But that's, right, that's that's legitimate hacking, right?

• 3:07:53Joe Rogan?

  Right, but this is what they're doing.

• 3:07:54Speaker 03

  Right.

• 3:07:54Joe Rogan?

  Like, um, uh.

• 3:07:57Speaker 03

  That's not what they wanted with Telegram. They wanted legitimate, like, full-on backdoor, but with.

• 3:08:01Joe Rogan?

  Gavin DeBecker has explained this to me. He said with with, uh, Pegasus one, you needed to click a link. Right? This is this is the Jeff Bezos thing. Someone sent him a bad link on WhatsApp. He clicked it. They had access to his phone. They got compromising information on him. Um, with Pegasus two, they just need your phone number. So they got your phone number, boom, they're in your phone, that's it. And so if that's the case, if you have a, a, a, an app like Signal, like, I would assume they could read your signal. Cause it's like right there on your phone, like if you already got the phone open. And they've got a compromise where they can get into your, into your phone.

• 3:08:39Speaker 03

  That's actually, by the way, why, you know, I'm going to Ukraine, going to Russia, going back to Ukraine.

• 3:08:46Joe Rogan?

  Trying to get your phone hacked.

• 3:08:47Speaker 03

  Well, I also try to make sure, like, dick pics that I sent to you and Tim Dillon aside, I try not to, there's nothing to hide.

• 3:08:55Joe Rogan?

  Right. Do you have a burner? Do you got a burner phone? Do you bring when you go overseas? You bring your real phone?

• 3:08:59Speaker 03

  I wouldn't tell you.

• 3:09:00Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that phone is hearing everything we say.

• 3:09:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 3:09:03Joe Rogan?

  For sure.

• 3:09:04Speaker 03

  What, what are we saying that we're, we need to hide? I mean, there's some embarrassing things for sure, like, you know.

• 3:09:10Joe Rogan?

  Drunk texts.

• 3:09:11Speaker 03

  Drunk texts.

• 3:09:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, from the past, some shit from the past. I'm so glad I grew up when I did.

• 3:09:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God. Imagine if you were 15 with a phone that you could take a picture of your dick.

• 3:09:22Speaker 03

  So somebody, um, somebody, so there's like a hit piece on me, fine, great, wonderful, I love you all, send, write some more. But this journalist found like some shit poetry I wrote.

• 3:09:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 3:09:34Speaker 03

  I mean, it.

• 3:09:35Joe Rogan?

  When you were young?

• 3:09:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, well.

• 3:09:37Joe Rogan?

  Were you hanging around with comedians?

• 3:09:38Speaker 03

  It was like late, it might have been late twenties, early thirties, so it's not, like, there's not even an excuse that you're not that young.

• 3:09:44Joe Rogan?

  It just sucked.

• 3:09:45Speaker 03

  It just sucked, yeah. And it, and I was just reading it, cause they, they know how to get, who is this article for? Cause.

• 3:09:53Joe Rogan?

  It's for the person writing it. They wanna hate on you. And it's clicks. And you're popular. So they wanna hate on you by attacking your shitty poetry.

• 3:10:00Speaker 03

  It's hilarious, cause like.

• 3:10:02Joe Rogan?

  Well, they got you. You gave them a little rope.

• 3:10:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:10:04Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, they hung you with it.

• 3:10:05Speaker 03

  But like, what I'm saying is, that's not a big deal. The, the bigger deal is like, if you grew up with that, like, so there's like shit you said when you're 14, or 15 or 16.

• 3:10:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 3:10:15Speaker 03

  It's even the piece, like, you know, that, that stuff, like, the article, all of that kind of stuff. You could even, I mean, one of the big things we have to do is allow people to evolve and just say, you know,

• 3:10:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:10:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, that was shit poetry. Well, I'm still horrible, I'm worse at poetry now, but like, that was embarrassing that I would be publishing, uh,

• 3:10:31Joe Rogan?

  I think that these people that attack, almost all of them are leftists, and I think leftism is a religion, um, just like being a Christian is a religion, in that there's like a, there's a way that you approach it. Marc Andreessen says it best. He, he was describing that it has all of the attributes of a cult. And I think people have a default system in their mind, we all do, that we fall into, that gives us like a religious-like adherence to some ideas. And, um, the thing that this cult is lacking, which is paramount to Christianity, is forgiveness.

• 3:11:10Joe Rogan?

  Um, there's no ru- road to redemption. Everyone is ostracized and kicked out. And what you wind up doing is you wind up cannibalizing your own thing. You can never be left enough. There's always crazy people that are like far to the end of it, and every ideological group gets defined by its most extreme members. That's why when people think about like far-right people, who do you think, you the worst people? You think of like people who want war, war mongers, assholes, you know, stupid people, un, you know, uneducated. That's what people think of when they think of like the worst. They think of like white nationalists. That's what they think of when they think of far-right. So you can kind of like, you flavor everything else in the group by the worst members of the group. And if you don't have forgiveness in your religion, like you have a fucking terrible religion.

• 3:11:55Joe Rogan?

  If you don't have a path to redemption, and you want extreme adherence to dogma, even if, like, even if whatever this idea with this ideology that you're pushing is like clearly, clearly destructive to a bunch of humans.

• 3:12:11Joe Rogan?

  That's what they're dealing with. It's like people fall into thought patterns, man. That most people are too busy to formulate their own opinion, so they develop opinions to sort of merge with the people that they're in touch with all the time. And if you get stuck in one of those fucking woke hives, like you're basically surrounded by mentally ill people that are preaching in a logical version of the world that no one, no one believes could ever exist.

• 3:12:39Speaker 03

  I hope there will be left-wing leaders that emerge that kind of shed that.

• 3:12:46Joe Rogan?

  I think they will have to, just by virtue of their survival. I think the woke thing is so widely rejected now. And when I say the woke thing, I mean this, what Elon calls the mind virus. The crazy aspect of it, like your kid knows it's trans when it's two. That kind of shit, like the people that are just far off the rails. That's gonna die off. It's just, it's just too nutty and it doesn't make any sense and it's ultimately destructive to a lot of different groups of people. And it's not fair. It's like the trans women in sports thing is the most unfair aspect of it. That one, that one's so crazy. And when you see people argue for it, inclusivity, all this, like you're out of your fucking mind. Like you're out of your mind.

• 3:13:29Joe Rogan?

  And the inability to discern who's a pervert and who's actually trans. Like the impossible nature and then just greenlighting perverts to do whatever they want.

• 3:13:38Speaker 03

  And that, you know, my concern is I do think the woke-ism is either dying or dead. My concern is those folks who are now looking for a new religion. There's people like that on the right, I think they're mostly rejected.

• 3:13:51Joe Rogan?

  No, there's a lot of people like that on the right. The right has a woke right. They have an attacking woke fucking, they're not united. There's an aspect to the right that attacks other people on the right. Especially now, because the right has like more attention than ever before. There's like, there's a whole, always gonna be a group in any sort of ideology. There's gonna be a group of people that use the opportunity to attack people to elevate themselves.

• 3:14:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think Marc Andreessen.

• 3:14:19Joe Rogan?

  It's going up. Five minutes.

• 3:14:22Speaker 03

  I think Marc Andreessen calls the battle, I think, on the right, maybe, between the techno libertarians versus the nationalists. So there's these, like, protectionist people that say, like, no more immigration.

• 3:14:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:14:35Speaker 03

  Mass deport everybody. And then there's these people, which they align on a lot of ideas. These people that say, we need to fucking build.

• 3:14:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:14:42Speaker 03

  Like, they're both America first, but they just have a different flavor of that. You know, the Marc Andressens of the world probably are, or at least Silicon Valley, accepts immigration. Like, we need to

• 3:14:54Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:14:54Speaker 03

  allow legal immigration of the best people in the world.

• 3:14:57Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 3:14:58Speaker 03

  But the nationalist part of the right, they're like, no, fuck that. Fuck you with your H1B. Fuck you with the

• 3:15:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:15:05Speaker 03

  With the, we don't need anymore. We need Merka.

• 3:15:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:15:08Speaker 03

  We don't need, uh...

• 3:15:09Joe Rogan?

  What is your take on the H1B thing? Because I, I saw the argument, and I was like, wait a minute. What is it? Do you guys want cheap labor? Or are you trying to get, like, super skillful engineers from other places? Like, what are we asking for here?

• 3:15:24Speaker 03

  I think, as I understand, H1B is just abused to get

• 3:15:29Joe Rogan?

  Cheap labor.

• 3:15:30Speaker 03

  cheaper labor.

• 3:15:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:15:31Speaker 03

  But, so it needs to be reformed. I think the argument got really muddled.

• 3:15:34Joe Rogan?

  Right. Because everybody was looking at the worst aspects of H1B, which is the cheap labor, right?

• 3:15:39Speaker 03

  But there is an aspect, and I think there's an O1 visa, there's different kinds of visas where, like, we need to get the bad, the, the best, baddest motherfuckers from the, all the, the rest of the world and have them, uh, work here.

• 3:15:50Joe Rogan?

  Look at that, baby. 3:53 to go. Look at it steaming.

• 3:15:56Joe Rogan?

  Look at all those carbons being emitted into the atmosphere by people who sell electric cars. You'd have to drive 100,000 fucking cars 24 hours a day for a year to, to get any of the release of carbon that that thing has.

• 3:16:12Speaker 03

  Here you go with your woke bullshit again.

• 3:16:14Joe Rogan?

  You'd have to drive my Chevelle until the universe died of heat death to get as much as you're gonna get off of this one rocket launch.

• 3:16:22Speaker 03

  Turns out you need a combustion engine to, to get off this, uh...

• 3:16:25Joe Rogan?

  Do you think we do, man? What do you think is going on with the UAPs? Do you think these motherfuckers have some new shit?

• 3:16:30Speaker 03

  Well, that's Eric Weinstein, like, you don't need to worry about the rockets, you need to crack physics.

• 3:16:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:16:35Speaker 03

  I think, I think, yeah.

• 3:16:36Joe Rogan?

  Weinstein has a very unusual theory involving that one university that has a completely overqualified physics department. It's also connected to a, um, um, stockbroker, or not a stockbroker, um, a financial thing. What are those kind of things called? Were they, you know what I'm talking about, Jamie?

• 3:17:00Joe Rogan?

  Um, goddamn it. The point is. No, it's like some financial investment group that does better numbers. They do like Bertie Madoff numbers, like nutty numbers. What's that? Venture capital. Venture, thank you, that's it. So, this company is connected to this university. This company makes extraordinary amounts of money. This university has an insane physics department and like, they're not publishing anything. And Eric's like, what are you guys doing?

• 3:17:28Speaker 03

  That's so weird.

• 3:17:29Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck are you doing? So, he thinks that these motherfuckers branched off. He thinks that the, the government probably got a bunch of like, super top secret squirrel type dudes. They're working on some high level shit and they branched off decades ago. And that they've been working on this for a long time.

• 3:17:46Speaker 03

  Of course, the military often swoops in and wants that talent, wants that technology, wants those ideas, right?

• 3:17:51Joe Rogan?

  They're probably connected, all intertwined with the military because who's gonna build these things? Right, you need the Defense Department. You need, um, defense contractors, rather. You need like Raytheon, you need someone like that who knows how to make spaceships. Like, make this fucking thing, you know? And they probably back engineered it all. They probably found some crashed things that are probably left here on purpose and like, figure it out monkeys. And then, in, you know, 1947, these dudes are fucking fumbling around and then all of a sudden they figure out fiber optics. All of a sudden they figure out transistors. All of a sudden, like, there's a bunch of weird shit that just kind of emerges. After these crash sites, that's what I like to believe.

• 3:18:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I kind of believe that. I also believe that there's, that they're, they're not so focused on us. They're doing it here and everywhere else too, like this is.

• 3:18:44Joe Rogan?

  Maybe.

• 3:18:45Speaker 03

  I.

• 3:18:46Joe Rogan?

  Why wouldn't they be focused on us?

• 3:18:48Speaker 03

  I just feel like there's a lot, a lot of tribes.

• 3:18:51Joe Rogan?

  I think there are, but I bet it takes a long ass time for it to get to the distance that our earth got from the sun, where you can get liquid water. And it only lasts for a little while till it freezes again.

• 3:19:02Speaker 03

  Oh, maybe, if that's the case and they understand that, then yes, then we're special.

• 3:19:06Joe Rogan?

  If you thought about like the way, let's just assume that the way life was created on earth is the only way life is created anywhere in the universe. Let's assume that all those rules apply.

• 3:19:15Speaker 03

  Like water.

• 3:19:16Joe Rogan?

  And let's assume that Terrence Howard's on to something.

• 3:19:18Speaker 03

  The peopling.

• 3:19:19Joe Rogan?

  The peopling. You would imagine that it would have to get where we are, where, where the water melts, where the ice melts. Seventeen seconds. And then life emerges from the sea like it did here, right? Doesn't that make sense that that would happen everywhere? Oh, Jesus.

• 3:19:36Speaker 03

  Wherever there's water.

• 3:19:37Joe Rogan?

  Here we go.

• 3:19:37Speaker 03

  Six. Five. Four. Three. Two. One.

• 3:19:45Joe Rogan?

  Here it goes.

• 3:19:49Speaker 03

  We have liftoff.

• 3:19:53Joe Rogan?

  That's a hundred million diesel trucks blowing coal.

• 3:19:58Speaker 03

  This is America, baby.

• 3:20:00Joe Rogan?

  Look at that thing.

• 3:20:01Speaker 03

  Vehicle's pitching down range.

• 3:20:03Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit, man.

• 3:20:05Speaker 03

  And that, that thing's gonna get caught.

• 3:20:08Joe Rogan?

  Bro. I want a rocket. I just decided I want a rocket.

• 3:20:14Speaker 03

  We could go up on that, dude.

• 3:20:15Joe Rogan?

  I need a rocket.

• 3:20:16Speaker 03

  Do a podcast from space.

• 3:20:17Joe Rogan?

  I want a rocket.

• 3:20:19Speaker 03

  Look down.

• 3:20:19Speaker 06

  All right, we're more than thirty seconds into flight. Telemetry showing thirty-three out of thirty-three engines as it's pitching down range.

• 3:20:26Joe Rogan?

  Look how high that is. In thirty seconds.

• 3:20:34Joe Rogan?

  Bro.

• 3:20:34Speaker 06

  You're a good callouts on the

• 3:20:36Joe Rogan?

  Is it gonna snap off?

• 3:20:37Speaker 06

  I don't know. You just heard the

• 3:20:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:20:39Speaker 06

  Red Bull heading us about six miles away.

• 3:20:40Joe Rogan?

  When it snaps off, where's it go?

• 3:20:42Speaker 06

  Watch Starship Ark into just

• 3:20:43Speaker 03

  You're talking about the, the, the

• 3:20:45Joe Rogan?

  They drop it in the ocean?

• 3:20:47Speaker 03

  No, it lands.

• 3:20:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's right.

• 3:20:50Speaker 03

  It gets caught.

• 3:20:50Joe Rogan?

  That's right, it's the Falcon.

• 3:20:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, it gets caught by these, uh, arms.

• 3:20:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:20:58Joe Rogan?

  I know, I was thinking about like the Saturn V, I think it was like a booster, I forgot. Actually it can land, which is even nuttier.

• 3:21:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's nutty. It's, it's, it's, that this gigantic thing that's the size of a skyscraper is gonna, it just lands.

• 3:21:11Joe Rogan?

  They just pass through the greatest stress the vehicle's gonna experience going uphill.

• 3:21:15Speaker 02

  Speed is 2,000 kilometers an hour.

• 3:21:19Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck? It keeps getting faster.

• 3:21:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:21:22Joe Rogan?

  Look.

• 3:21:22Speaker 03

  How high it is, huh?

• 3:21:23Joe Rogan?

  As they get away from the gravity of Earth, look how it gets faster, you fucking Flat Earth dorks.

• 3:21:27Speaker 03

  It gets easier and easier. I don't know, it looks flat from here.

• 3:21:32Joe Rogan?

  It does look flat, they're right.

• 3:21:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god. Bro, you believe this CGI? You really believe this is happening? You are a shill, Lex.

• 3:21:44Speaker 03

  Watch, the camera might go off for a little bit, which will explain everything.

• 3:21:47Joe Rogan?

  Have you seen the guy who takes the Flat Earth people to Antarctica, where they can see that the sun spit around? And they're like, oh shit. You can go to Antarctica that's down an ice wall? No.

• 3:21:59Speaker 03

  I mean, I like people that can change their mind in that way.

• 3:22:03Joe Rogan?

  Bro.

• 3:22:03Speaker 03

  Let's see, let's see if it lands, it should be a few minutes.

• 3:22:06Joe Rogan?

  So nuts.

• 3:22:07Speaker 02

  I think this here in the corner is like all the different boosters or something?

• 3:22:11Joe Rogan?

  So it's 54 miles, or 54 kilometers in the sky right now? Fuck dude.

• 3:22:18Speaker 03

  And it actually has, I think, uh, satellites onboard.

• 3:22:21Speaker 02

  It was, it was active. Just turn them all off, just slow down.

• 3:22:27Speaker 03

  Yep, stage separation.

• 3:22:30Joe Rogan?

  So that fucker's gonna go land.

• 3:22:32Speaker 03

  That's gonna go land.

• 3:22:33Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 3:22:34Speaker 02

  How long does that take now, like two minutes before it comes back down?

• 3:22:36Speaker 03

  Uh, maybe three, four more.

• 3:22:39Joe Rogan?

  That is so fucking crazy. It's gonna go land now.

• 3:22:46Joe Rogan?

  Look at the earth, it looks round.

• 3:22:50Joe Rogan?

  Lex, the earth looks, the earth looks kinda round.

• 3:22:53Speaker 03

  Those motherfuckers.

• 3:22:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh wait a minute, it looks flat there.

• 3:22:55Speaker 02

  This is a new camera, this is definitely fake.

• 3:22:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, this is the real camera. That other one is bullshit.

• 3:23:01Speaker 02

  Case looks kinda more round to me.

• 3:23:04Joe Rogan?

  That other one is a fisheye lens.

• 3:23:06Speaker 02

  No stars out there.

• 3:23:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, oh, look at the fucking, where's the stars? This is bullshit. This is in a lab in Nevada.

• 3:23:14Speaker 03

  This is a screensaver. What is this?

• 3:23:18Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 3:23:20Speaker 03

  And I, I think they have a payload of, uh, of a satellite that they're like testing, releasing, so.

• 3:23:25Joe Rogan?

  Bro, imagine what it feels like looking out the window and seeing that.

• 3:23:28Speaker 02

  The one on the right is going way faster now.

• 3:23:29Speaker 03

  It's humbling.

• 3:23:30Speaker 02

  The, it's almost a 6,000 kilometers an hour.

• 3:23:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 3:23:35Speaker 02

  The other one's heading back down, still slowing down.

• 3:23:37Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 3:23:38Speaker 02

  Ooh, space station?

• 3:23:40Joe Rogan?

  What is that? Is that the space station? Is that what that is?

• 3:23:45Speaker 02

  I hope so, I don't know what the fuck.

• 3:23:46Joe Rogan?

  She just said it, she just said it.

• 3:23:48Speaker 02

  Otherwise we just saw some UFO.

• 3:23:50Joe Rogan?

  She, she just said it.

• 3:23:52Speaker 03

  Definitely a UFO.

• 3:23:56Joe Rogan?

  Is it possible to get that close to the space station? Like, hey, guys?

• 3:24:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, they're extremely precise about their flight trajectory.

• 3:24:11Speaker 03

  So you would, would you ever fly on one of these?

• 3:24:14Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 3:24:17Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 3:24:19Speaker 03

  How much, how much would you, how much would I need to pay you to?

• 3:24:22Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no. I'm already rich.

• 3:24:25Speaker 03

  You can't get me with that. That's the one, fuck you money thing.

• 3:24:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't, I don't have that expensive tastes.

• 3:24:33Speaker 03

  I, I would love to fly on one of these, man.

• 3:24:36Speaker 02

  Flat.

• 3:24:38Joe Rogan?

  Dude, that's so insane.

• 3:24:39Speaker 03

  Incredibly flat.

• 3:24:44Joe Rogan?

  Look at CGI, bro.

• 3:24:51Joe Rogan?

  What do you think would happen if you did send flat-earthers up in that and they got to see? Do you think they would believe what they're... How many of them are schizophrenic, though?

• 3:24:59Speaker 03

  Oh, they'll think everything was a lie.

• 3:25:02Joe Rogan?

  Like, what percentage of the flat-earths community? Like, the percentage of all communities, it's like 1% that are schizophrenic, right?

• 3:25:09Speaker 03

  But don't you think...

• 3:25:09Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it, like, across the board?

• 3:25:11Speaker 03

  Something like that.

• 3:25:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so, it's not disparaging the flat-earths community. I'm just saying.

• 3:25:15Speaker 03

  Well, can you be like schizophrenic light? Can you just be a little schizophrenic?

• 3:25:22Joe Rogan?

  You definitely can. I know a dude that you gotta touch. They gotta touch.

• 3:25:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, a little bit.

• 3:25:27Joe Rogan?

  Just a touch. I told this story once, I was talking to this comedian, and, uh, I've known this guy forever. I thought he was totally normal. Uh, and, but he's always like odd, and he starts showing me pictures on his phone of clouds. He's like, "You see that?" I go, "Yeah."

• 3:25:43Speaker 02

  It's gonna go through a cloud, right now.

• 3:25:45Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 3:25:45Speaker 02

  It's a high-ass cloud.

• 3:25:47Speaker 03

  Oh, shit.

• 3:25:48Speaker 02

  20 kilometers up.

• 3:25:49Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 3:25:51Speaker 02

  For that?

• 3:25:51Joe Rogan?

  That's so fucking cool. How fucking cool is that? This thing is gonna go land now?

• 3:25:57Speaker 03

  You wanna make a bet about if it's gonna catch?

• 3:25:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's gonna catch. Alright, yeah, I believe so, too. Yeah, no, I wouldn't bet against it. That would be un-American.

• 3:26:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:26:05Joe Rogan?

  Look at it, though. Look how cool that is, man.

• 3:26:07Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 3:26:08Joe Rogan?

  They're focusing on it now from a distance.

• 3:26:10Speaker 02

  It just dropped fast. It's now only 3 kilo- 2 kilometers above.

• 3:26:13Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 3:26:18Joe Rogan?

  Bro, this is so insane.

• 3:26:22Speaker 03

  This is amazing.

• 3:26:24Joe Rogan?

  This is so insane.

• 3:26:25Speaker 03

  So it has this, it's controlling fully the position of this...

• 3:26:30Joe Rogan?

  Look at the tower coming in to catch it, too. Oh, my god.

• 3:26:38Speaker 03

  Fuck, yeah.

• 3:26:39Joe Rogan?

  Fuck, yeah!

• 3:26:44Joe Rogan?

  Wow!

• 3:26:46Speaker 03

  Holy shit now.

• 3:26:47Joe Rogan?

  That is so fucking badass!

• 3:26:49Speaker 03

  That is so nuts.

• 3:26:50Speaker 02

  That's exactly seven minutes from when it left.

• 3:26:51Joe Rogan?

  Seven minutes for the whole flight?

• 3:26:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:26:53Joe Rogan?

  Wow!

• 3:26:56Speaker 03

  That's a fucking building.

• 3:26:59Joe Rogan?

  That is so dope.

• 3:27:01Speaker 02

  Look at the other one's climbing in speed. 16,000 kilometers an hour.

• 3:27:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 3:27:07Speaker 02

  140 kilometers away.

• 3:27:08Joe Rogan?

  Wow!

• 3:27:10Speaker 03

  New Glenn yesterday, Starship today, this is why I fucking love America.

• 3:27:15Joe Rogan?

  That's so incredible dude. That's so incredible. Um, hey, the question is like, how tall is that? In reference to like a building? Isn't it like a 20-story building or something crazy?

• 3:27:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, this should before it took off, right there.

• 3:27:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, wow.

• 3:27:30Speaker 03

  It is-

• 3:27:30Joe Rogan?

  Look how much bigger it is than Millennium Falcon!

• 3:27:34Joe Rogan?

  I like how they-

• 3:27:37Joe Rogan?

  He compares it to the Millennium Falcon! How fucking amazing is that? What's the other one? Is that Blue Origin?

• 3:27:43Speaker 02

  Different SpaceX.

• 3:27:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's another SpaceX one?

• 3:27:45Speaker 03

  It's bigger than the Blue Origin rocket, uh, but quite a bit. It is, I think it's the biggest rocket ever made.

• 3:27:50Joe Rogan?

  123 meters.

• 3:27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that, that part right here halfway, that's what came back.

• 3:27:55Joe Rogan?

  Right. So that's gotta be... I mean, you think, do you think it's... It looks higher than half.

• 3:28:01Speaker 03

  How many floors of like-

• 3:28:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's gotta be 70 meters. That's so crazy. That's so big.

• 3:28:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like 33 Raptor engines, so it's just raw power. Just, just even one of those engines is, like, if you ever see it live, it's incredible.

• 3:28:17Joe Rogan?

  It's so much cooler watching it actually happen live than it is watching a video.

• 3:28:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:28:22Joe Rogan?

  When you watch a video, you're like, "Yeah, that's cool, but like, we didn't know what was gonna happen."

• 3:28:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:28:25Joe Rogan?

  That's the cool thing about live.

• 3:28:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:28:28Joe Rogan?

  Fuck yeah. That was awesome.

• 3:28:29Speaker 03

  That was fucking awesome.

• 3:28:30Joe Rogan?

  Let's end with that. We're ending on a positive note. American ingenuity, baby!

• 3:28:34Speaker 03

  Let's go America.

• 3:28:35Joe Rogan?

  Peace on earth! Good wood to all.

• 3:28:37Speaker 03

  Love you, brother.

• 3:28:37Joe Rogan?

  Love you too, man. Thank you. Bye. Bye, everybody.

• 3:28:54Joe Rogan?

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• 3:29:36Joe Rogan?

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