Zane Lowe ON: 3 Tools for Navigating Social Anxiety & 3 Ways to Change Your Relationship with Your Ego

How do you deal with social anxiety? Do you have tools in place to help you overcome anxious thoughts? Today, Zane Lowe sits down with Jay Shetty for a conversation about success in career, marriage and parenthood, and how to navigate social anxiety. Zane is a grammy-nominated producer, executive, and radio host. He is Apple Music’s Creative Director and the flagship anchor for Apple Music 1, part of the award-winning Apple Music Radio. In addition to hosting his daily show, Zane curates original programming and oversees Apple Music's artist-led programming, which features shows hosted by Lady Gaga, Billie Eilish, Lil Wayne, Justin Bieber, and many more. Zane opens up about his lifelong passion for music, which was ignited by a chance meeting with Split Enz. What's truly remarkable is that, despite his immense success in the music industry, He remains a devoted fan at heart. He reminds us that our passions can be a driving force in our lives, and when we put our focus on manifesting what truly matters, we can create space within ourselves for the good things. As we dive deeper into this candid discussion, Zane shares his insights on maintaining a balanced life in the face of distractions and the importance of cherishing the simple things. He highlights the value of creating communities and experiences that inspire others, shedding light on how therapy played a pivotal role in preparing him for parenthood, and the essence of love as an unspoken language, the secrets of lasting marriages, and the true meaning of greatness. In this interview, you'll learn: Why you need to focus on what truly matters in your life How to create space for positive things The power of shared experiences in a community How to love deeply and more meaningfully How to be in-tune with your ego How to maintain a healthy balance in your life How to have impactful and inspiring conversations In the end, we are reminded that the most inspiring conversations often happen with those who have no intention to sell, leaving us with profound insights about life and purpose. With Love and Gratitude, Jay Shetty What We Discuss: 00:00 Intro 01:29 How A Life-long Passion For Music Evolved Into A Successful Career 07:36 We Manifest The Things We Focus On 10:06 Dedicate Your Focus To Things That Feel Authentic To You 14:19 The Importance Of Creating Space Within Your Mind 16:30 The True Purpose Of Music Is To Inspire and Create Community 20:55 How Therapy Helped Prepare Zane For Parenthood 24:55 What Kind Of Father Do You Want To Be? 26:30 Why Is Love Considered An Unspoken Language? 29:36 You Need To Grow Together If You Want Your Marriage Can Last 33:44 Navigating Social Anxiety 36:26 True Greatness Comes From Knowing How To Access It 42:06 How To Recognize A Genuine Connection With An Individual 45:37 What’s Your Relationship With Your Ego? 51:30 Do You Manifest? How Do You Practice Manifestation? 53:23 How Do You Manage Ambition And Still Maintain A Balanced Life? 58:46 You’ll Miss Opportunities If You’re Only Focused On Speed 01:01:00 Practicing Healthy Routines 01:04:07 Undoing Habits And Practices That Society Built For Us 01:11:03 What Is The Difference Between Working And Working Hard? 01:11:55 The Most Inspiring Conversations Are With People Who Have No Intention To Sell 01:17:25 Zane Lowe on Final Five Episode Resources: Zane Lowe | Twitter Zane Lowe | Instagram Zane Lowe | Facebook Zane Lowe | TikTok Zane Lowe | YouTube The Zane Lowe Show See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jay Shetty?

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• 0:45Jay Shetty?

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• 1:24Jay Shetty?

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• 2:06Jay Shetty?

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• 2:22Speaker 01

  Just pull the car over. Stop driving in a direction that you think you should go in because you're directionless right now. Stop. Let all the cars drive past you and enjoy the fact that you're actually stopping.

• 2:32Speaker 02

  It was Zayn Lo. Zayn Lo, international DJ. That's right.

• 2:35Jay Shetty?

  Apple Music's creative director.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  I love you, Zayn.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  I'd rather just start. I don't really have a big introduction. I really genuinely thought I'm just gonna live with these aches. This will be it for the rest of my life. Why would you want to live with pain? The harder you work, the more you achieve, the more you achieve, the more you tell yourself you're okay, the more you tell yourself you're okay, not dealing with the shit.

• 2:53Jay Shetty?

  Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier and more healed. All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button. I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing. It means the world to me.

• 3:15Speaker 03

  The bestselling author and host. The number one health and wellness podcast.

• 3:19Speaker 04

  On Purpose with Jay Shetty.

• 3:22Jay Shetty?

  How do you describe what you do? How do you like to choose? Because I feel like when you have a role that is public, like I always get asked, what do you want your lower third to say? And I don't like being defined by the lists of roles and titles. So how would you describe what you do or what you believe in?

• 3:41Speaker 01

  I agree. I mean, I think roles and titles make it easier to work with other people with roles and titles. But I think in life, it's different. In my life, I'm just a fan. I'm just a, I'm a fan. I'm someone who discovers something very early on in life that stuck with me. I knew it was going to be very special and important to my development, to my identity, to helping me find my way in life. And once I kind of made it a singularity rather than one of many hobbies, it just, I just tried to immerse myself in as much of it as possible, like almost obsessively. And so I'm just a big, big fan of what I love, which outside of my family and friends is music. So I'm just, I'm just a super fan.

• 4:26Jay Shetty?

  That is, I love that. That's such a great, cool way of defining yourself. With, with that, you've sat down with obviously so many incredible artists and beautiful interviews. I've watched your, one of my favorite interviews is yours with Harry Styles, actually. That was, I thought that was brilliant. But when was the first time you felt like a fan when you hadn't met someone? Like, when was the first time you felt like a real fan when you didn't sit opposite that person? And you didn't know that person? And do you remember that moment?

• 4:52Speaker 01

  You mean like at a concert and stuff?

• 4:53Jay Shetty?

  At a concert or like when you bought your first record? Or like, where was that experience of your first moment?

• 4:59Speaker 01

  What a beautiful question out the gate, bro. Like, what an amazing question. The first time I really, I really realized that it was chemical. It was, it wasn't really a, something by design. It was, it was reactive.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  Was probably going and seeing a band called Split Ends, which is arguably New Zealand's most influential and legendary band.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  They were around predominantly in the seventies and had a lot of success in the eighties. In the, in the, in the late eighties, they, they sort of splintered off and Neil Finn left to go and form Crowded House. And of course, everyone knows Crowded House and Neil Finn, Don't Dream It's Over. And, you know, he had a huge, he's had huge success and a huge career, has had other members of that band. But in their heyday, when I went and saw them as a kid with my mum,

• 5:59Speaker 01

  I think being in that crowd and reacting the way I did to the music, which I don't really remember. My mum always told me that it was, it was almost like an out of body experience. Like it was like I was in church or something like I wasn't, I wasn't listening to the music in the same way that she'd seen me at home or she was looking left and right. I was somewhere else for the entire, yeah, in a way, in some kind of trance. And so that's when I think she realised, oh, this, it grabs this kid. And then I think also going and seeing Stop Making Sense, the movie by Talking Heads was when I realised like, I wanted to get as close to, because it was different with Split Enz, they were right there on the stage. But seeing Talking Heads on that screen, and I made my mum take me to that movie two days in a row. As a young person, but a little bit older, that, that was when I was like, oh, how do I get to them?

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Like they're on a big movie screen right now. How do I get to them? Like Split Enz is down the road, but Talking Heads is somewhere like they may as well be on Mars, you know?

• 6:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's a beautiful answer. Yeah, I, I love the, I love the idea of firsts. I remember, I think the first movie I saw in theatres was Cool Runnings, which I loved. Like that was such a great first experience at the theatres and I was like, wow.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  I don't know anyone who doesn't love that film.

• 7:12Jay Shetty?

  I know, it was just, it was such a great like first experience. And then my first album that I properly listened to, so it's weirdly, I, I talk about this. I haven't talked about this a lot, but it makes sense talking about it with you. Like I grew up in a home where I was encouraged to learn how to play instruments, but we never listened to a lot of music.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  Interesting. So it was more disciplined than an enjoyment level?

• 7:32Jay Shetty?

  Correct. It was more like an extracurricular academic activity, because it would look good on my resume when I applied to a better school later on. And it really. hampered my ability to to love instruments. And so I grew up playing the piano. I did grade up to grade four in the piano. I did grade five theory. I played percussion.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  All the while not really knowing what listening to music, the feeling is. Yeah.

• 7:56Jay Shetty?

  There was no feeling. And then I turned 12 or 13 when I kind of stopped doing that. And I was introduced to Eminem for the first time through a friend at school.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  So you went from studying an instrument and not really being exposed to the enjoyment of music to listening to Eminem?

• 8:11Jay Shetty?

  Yes, literally. That was it. That was exactly it.

• 8:14Speaker 01

  We don't want you eating any sugar in the house. And then eventually, look, here's a six tier chocolate death cake.

• 8:20Jay Shetty?

  Decadent and delicious and just, yeah. And I remember getting it from a guy at school and he and he had, he had like, he had the Infinite album too, which was awesome. Yeah, the first one. And I remember putting it on and feeling like such a fan where in a way that I've never, you know, felt again, maybe even. And that first is so important. But with you, what do you think's changed about your relationship with being a fan? You said you're still a fan, but like, what was it like being a fan back then? And what is it like being a fan back now when you're so close to the industry? You are the industry in so many ways. You define what takes off, what doesn't. Like, you're so close to it all. What has changed in being a fan?

• 8:57Speaker 01

  A lot, nothing. I mean, you know, the the simple question is very little. I mean, the distance between who I was in that concert and who I am today is very, it's a very short distance. Um, I still get the same sense of, um, I still, I can still find myself in that space where I'm lost. Um, you know, I can still put on music in my headphones and go for a walk and end up in floods of tears quietly on my own, you know? Um, it's, it's something that is deep, it affects me deeply. And I haven't had to work to hold on to that. That's how I know I'm in the right place in my life, you know? Um, in terms of the industry side of it, that's a whole other conversation. I mean, everything's changed there. And I think finding myself in any room or in any seat or behind any microphone or in any conversation or in any studio, um, to me was always a privilege. I didn't know how to get in those rooms. I didn't know how to do that.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  Um, I didn't come from a background where, um, the kind of music industry I wanted to move into or the area I wanted to move in my life made sense. My dad is from a radio background. So, okay, you can say that makes more sense. But, um, That wasn't my intention as a kid. I didn't wake up and want to follow my father's footsteps. He knows this. I wanted to be in recording studios and make music my whole life. And I didn't know how to get there. And I didn't know what a music industry was. And I mean, there was no music industry really in New Zealand. And some might even argue that there is, but it's specific to that environment. It's not London, it's not New York, it's not Tokyo, it's not Germany, you know, wherever. So that is a journey that I can't even put into context myself. I mean, I think you know this more than anyone, right?

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Like, stay in the moment, absorb the situation, learn and move forward.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  And I think I was doing that without even realizing it. Because I couldn't have charted this path.

• 10:38Jay Shetty?

  Well, that makes your journey even more fascinating to me. Because you're right, you didn't grow up in a space that naturally landed itself to the career you have today. Do you remember, if you could track back for us, even before what consciously comes to mind, what was that first step you took to say, I'm going to pursue this? Because I feel today, it's really fascinating that there's even more choices. In one sense, there's even more access. But people who are listening today, even myself, a few years ago, I found myself having the limiting belief and the hopelessness almost of, my dream's really far away. I don't think it's possible. Those kind of things don't happen to people like me. I'm not set up to succeed.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  Well, because I think in that moment in time, and I've felt that many times in my life, I think that what happens is, we're at our most effective when we have some kind of singularity to focus on. You know, it's like, this is what I love. This is who I love. This is the person I most want to have this conversation with in my life right now. This is what I need to do to be healthy. And I think when we're focused on things that are ultimately giving us... Purpose, it, it, we manifest without even realizing it, you know? And, and I think when we get into that place of hopelessness that you've been in, I've been in, and others have been in, um, in Arun, it's, it's when we, um, split that singularity up into fifty-five things, a hundred things, a thousand things, a million things. At best, they contradict each other or counter each other. At worst, they actively fight for, for

• 12:07Speaker 01

  your attention. And you can't give your attention to, to everything. And so that's where you end up just standing still, questioning your own purpose, your own abilities, because it seems hard just to take a step forward, because there's so much noise that, that's around you. When I've been at my most effective and best for myself is when I've been least affected by that noise and the most focused on what I know is moving me emotionally and inspirationally in my life.

• 12:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, that's, I've never heard it put that way, but that resonates deeply. I remember I sat down with one of my spiritual teachers, probably when I was, I don't know, maybe like ten years ago. And I said, I've got all these ideas. I want to do all these things, but I don't know where to start. It was what you just described, that like fragmented, distracted.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, static.

• 12:53Jay Shetty?

  Static, yeah. And, and I said to him, I just, I don't know where to start. And he said something beautiful to me. He said, he said, open every door that you possibly can. And then he said, the doors that close, let them close and just keep walking through the ones that remain open.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 13:09Jay Shetty?

  And it was, it was the best advice I've ever gotten in life.

• 13:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:12Jay Shetty?

  Because I felt like all of us were just standing at one door or ten doors, just trying to open all of them.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  You know what my wife says to me when I get like that? She's like, pull, not literally, and maybe sometimes literally, but she says, pull the car over. And what she means is, is that, um, just pull the car over. Stop driving in a direction that you think you should go in because you're directionless right now. And you're actually possibly driving yourself further away from where you should be. Pull the car over, stop, let all the cars drive past you and don't worry about where they're going. Let the traffic go past you. Don't worry about it. Just enjoy the fact that you're actually stopping.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Ignore the traffic, ignore everyone else, focus on where you wanna go, choose your direction and focus on it. Cause right now, and this is, I mean, you know, when she's at her most lol, she's like, cause right now you're veering all over the freeway. You're like, you have no idea where you're going. And, you know, it's, to me, that kind of, it speaks a similar truth, which is, it's, we're all in everyday life entirely capable of just, of being distracted and distracting ourselves and allowing us to, ourselves to be distracted. And it's a part of life because it's noisy, it's really noisy. And especially the older you get, the more you see, the more you absorb, the more you try to own, the more you try to define yourself through the things you own. This is an awesome space, but you've got stuff in here, right? At some point, if you leave, you've got to figure out where this stuff goes, do you take it, do you leave it?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  These are all decisions, right? Everything's a decision. And I think that, you know, when we're probably most capable of making the decisions that ultimately charter a path of, of, of true holistic and, and spiritual, and also just ambition level value, is when we're focused on simplicity, simple things.

• 14:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's true.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Simple doors.

• 14:55Jay Shetty?

  It's true, yeah. And it's, what I found really attractive is a peaceful mind and an internal simplicity

• 15:06Jay Shetty?

  allows for navigation of external chaos.

• 15:10Speaker 01

  It makes us more capable

• 15:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  of moving through that thrash, yes.

• 15:16Jay Shetty?

  Correct, yeah. Like, I've, I've always thought about, what I've tried to work on a lot, and I work on every day because I'm not there yet, is to refine my internal intention to be so simple and clear, that then the external complexity, which naturally comes with being an entrepreneur and running a business and everything else that comes with trying to make an impact, and, and trying to provide for your family and the people you love. But it's like, the reason for doing it is just one little dot.

• 15:46Speaker 01

  Oh dude, when I made my most indecisive,

• 15:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  I probably had a few nights drinking some wine. Um, my work is really busy and I'm not really seeing, I'm not, I'm not seeing it, I'm not seeing the playbook for that week. Um, and someone can call me and ask me the most simple thing and I can't make that decision. And it's, it's because to your point, I've clouded my own ability to be decisive. Um, and sometimes it's not, it's not my, it's not my decision. Sometimes it's just stuff going off around you. I, I mean, the thing is as well about, about trying to find that internal balance, that clarity internally is that, that's where the most noise is. I mean, that, this all pales to that. Like, think about every experience and every memory and everything. And whether it's trauma or joy that we're absorbing all the time.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  Like, that's why I love therapy so much. And, and if you can do it and you can afford it and it's something that you would, are willing to try. I'm a, I'm a big believer in it because it's, it, to me, it just creates space. It just helps you like down, like thirty percent of the trash. And now I have space to fill it with stuff based on my learnings and what I truly know about myself that is of value to me versus the stuff that I either inherited that I never wanted in the first place. Or stuff that I thought I wanted that is not actually good for me. Like, just get rid of all that, right? And uh, it's a good, great way to clear out. And, cause that is to me, the noisiest for me. That is way noisier than what's outside the store.

• 17:08Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Way noisier. So you say you're not there yet, I'm never gonna get there, Jay. But I love, I love the process.

• 17:15Jay Shetty?

  Yes, the pursuit. But I, I like the way you described therapy as a clear out because I don't think that's how it's often always seen. And it's really interesting, right? We all know, I need to clean my wardrobe out, I need to get rid of some of my clothes.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  And it feels good when you do.

• 17:27Jay Shetty?

  And it feels good when you do, but we don't think about our thoughts that way.

• 17:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we are finite, we have finite space.

• 17:32Jay Shetty?

  Hmm.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  I think we have finite ability to be able to process, certainly emotionally. And way that we process information and how it makes us feel. Um, a lot of our feelings are wasted, are a waste.

• 17:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  Cause we get driven by ego, we get, or it takes us back to a time in our life we weren't happy, or it triggers something that we're, is unresolved and, and our feelings then dictate our actions. But if we're not creating space for us to be able to fill ourselves with good things, then our, then our feelings sometimes, again, our feelings just won't be, they won't honor us, I don't think.

• 18:04Jay Shetty?

  Wow, yeah, that, you reminded me of a study that I read a while ago that said, And it may, it may be different now because of just how fast things are changing. But it was saying that the human brain has the ability to compute like seventy four gigabytes of data a day. But we are just filling it up with like, we're easily consuming that much. That isn't selected, cleared out, curated. It's just being filled up with what's coming through.

• 18:32Speaker 01

  And we're always going to have to because we can't like controls fallacy and we can't dictate how our life works in terms of who gives us what information and how we process things and who tries to, you know, how we unload energy on each other. And that's, that's just part of being a human and living in a society. But what it does allow us to do is to be conscious of that and to allow ourselves. The way I always look at it is like a meteor in the red, right? If, if you look at this old kind of like, I don't know if they're Geiger, Gigameters, whatever, whatever you've got like the needle here and, and the last kind of ten percent's red. It's always red.

• 19:08Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 19:08Speaker 01

  Right? The rest of it's white. Everything's great, bad. You know, oh, good, bad, right? And, and, and if you, you, you haven't got the ability to be able to process it properly, then, then even if you wake up in the morning and you're sort of back to sort of thirty because you're restless and you've got some anxiety when you wake up, i- if you haven't got the space figured out, the smallest thing and you're back in the red. What, what I try to do is have it go like that. And then when it gets to about seventy, figure out how I get it back down to thirty. So if it does get in the red, I've just, I've got more of an ability to process and to manage those feelings.

• 19:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, definitely. One of, one of the things I met, I wanted to go back a couple of steps with something you mentioned that was beautiful, where you described your trance-like experience almost of being lost. And it reminded me of the visual, which I think Baz Luhrmann did a great job of in the new Elvis movie. Like when you see.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  I liked that movie.

• 19:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I, I really liked the visual storytelling of it. I thought it was, and the music was spectacular.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 20:00Jay Shetty?

  I thought the scenes of young Elvis having those trance-like experiences was, was really, really special. And I wonder, what did it feel like when, maybe when you were DJing, you were creating that you saw people having that kind of experience to you? How was it like almost being on the opposite end?

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Well, the reason that I chose to DJ in the first place was because I think there's always been a performative part of my nature that I, I sort of turn, turn my back's too strong a term, but as I, as I found myself in the, in the media side of things and I guess connecting the artist to the fan, which I love to do.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  It meant I didn't really have so much of an outlet for that until I got to radio. And then I guess that started to come out in the way I broadcast and the way that I played records. It was very, I was very sort of like, and I still am, but very much during my time at the BBC, I was very active with the music. I liked to use effects and reverbs and sing along to the songs and pull them up and explode them and end them early. And I just saw them as things to kind of play with, rather than just press play, sit back, think of something to say, wait for the song to end, say it, press. That is actually the most respectful way to treat music in the media. And, and my favorite DJs do that. Not all of them, but, but some of my favorite DJs are the ones who pull a song up and play it five times in 30 minutes and scream over it and get me excited and make me connect

• 21:18Speaker 01

  to the music in a different way. That's an example of the performative side of who I am. And so I started to get that outlet in radio. And then, and then I was like, well, you know, I miss being on stage. I miss that being in front of crowds. How would I carve up a space for myself as a DJ? And when I started to sort of carve out my identity as a DJ, I was trying to do so in a way that was built out of the kind of chaos that I love about music, the genre, indefinable genre violence of the clash. Like, I don't know what they make half the time, right? The way the Bomb Squad made Public Enemy records and Ice Cube records and just like, whoa, is that a chainsaw? Like, what's going on? Like, how did, what do they just do? They stop that? The way the Beastie Boys

• 22:03Speaker 01

  did it with Paul's Boutique, you know, you know, and I got all my stuff. I'm going back to New York City. What the heck? I do believe I've had enough. Like, what are they dropping in? Where are they going? What's happening? Why is this happening? What's going on? Like, it's just full of surprises, left turns, right turns. The whole thing is just completely unpredictable. And I tried to do that. So I say all that to say that I had to learn how to put people in a trance, because most of the time I think I was just hurting them.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Their sensibilities at least, you know, I was just like, they were just like, whoa, and some kids got it and were like, this is awesome. And some kids were like, man, I just want a house mix. Like, can you just like mix something and blend something, you know?

• 22:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  So, I mean, my, I mean, for, for me, like, the joy I got out when I was DJing of watching the way people reacted to music was just realizing that in that, in that moment in time, whatever else was going, and I'm sure every artist would tell you this, who, who gets to step on a stage and, and do anything in that, in that environment, knowing that in that moment in time, whatever else has happened before, or, or they're worried about happening after, does, doesn't really matter. That as far as being in the moment is concerned, you, you get to share in that with people and you get to try to create an environment where that matters. And every DJ that I've ever played with or toured with, the greats

• 23:26Speaker 01

  of all time, right through to, you know, my friends, that's what really i- is that if you boil it down to its, to its primary source, I think, it's about creating a community and experience that exists in the moment, that is free of the thrash of life and is really there to just inspire people to, um, yeah, go into that space that I was in as a kid.

• 23:49Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  That and not have to socialize with people, which if you're socially anxious like me, then be a DJ.

• 23:55Jay Shetty?

  It protects you.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, you never have to speak to anyone again for the rest of your life if you don't wanna, and no one expects you to.

• 24:01Jay Shetty?

  I was, I was gonna ask you that, you like, you, you took, you touched on like the importance of therapy and you're saying that's worked for you. What was it initially that guided you in that direction? A, how did you, why did you specifically choose to therapy as a modality to support you and whatever you were looking, and what were you looking for from it?

• 24:19Speaker 01

  Uh, parenthood. You know, I became a father and, um, I realized in that moment that I was ill-prepared to be, to, to share my best. Um, and so I had to do the work in order to be at my best. And I'm incredibly grateful to my wife and to my friends and my family for encouraging me to do that. Um, at the time, I was at, at my lowest point, I think. Um.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  And it was really hard, but in doing that work, my life just changed like for the better in every way. And um, and ultimately, you know, gave me the ability and the tools to be able to like and love myself enough to love the people that I love more than anything in the world completely. And without compromise. I think if I hadn't done that work, I think I would have always either felt compromised in my ability to love others, certainly love my kids and my wife, and be loved. And I think that, you know, that is the thing that

• 25:36Speaker 01

  really ultimately makes me the saddest is thinking back to that alternative and how that feels for people. I think to be loved and to love completely is the, is the purpose. I think that is it. Someone who is feeling that sense of love and commitment has to let go for us to exist. And we have to let go to move on. And somewhere in the middle, it's just about the ability to be loved and to love.

• 26:03Jay Shetty?

  Do you think that you fell out of love with yourself or that you were never in love with yourself in the first place?

• 26:09Speaker 01

  Woo! I don't know. That's a great question. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I was definitely loved. My mum and my dad and my brother. I mean, I come from a very loving family, but I think that it was a compromised environment in terms of it was a divorced environment. And so you see sides of relationships and life and the family structure that are shocking to you as a kid. And it's hard to figure out what your identity is to yourself, let alone what you need to be for everybody else. You know, I wanted to fix it and I couldn't. I didn't have the tools. I was too young. I didn't know what to do. And I guess somewhere along the line, I just, just lost, lost touch with the simple

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Ambitions of life, which are like, put yourself in an environment which is as joyful as possible around people that you love. And just try to find as much balance as you can. And I just think, yeah, I don't know, man. I mean, I definitely came from a background that was, it wasn't dissimilar to, in terms of the cause and effect, as billions of people, I mean, relationships start, relationships end. I love my parents. In the end, it was the right decision for them. It was very tough for me as a kid at that moment in time. And I think what I had to do was take responsibility for that rather than either ignore it or project some kind of really pointless blame on a scenario that was completely out of my control. It's like, okay. And so the only way I could really sort of, the only point in my life I could do that

• 27:43Speaker 01

  was when I realized that I had something that was more important than the blame or more important than the ignoring. And that was being a dad. It's like, all right, like,

• 27:54Speaker 01

  I need to take responsibility for how I'm processing this or not.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  Otherwise, this beautiful future is, I'm not going to get the most out of it. And neither are they.

• 28:06Jay Shetty?

  What kind of dad do you want to be and why?

• 28:09Speaker 01

  I want to be a father that, and hope I am a father, that provides our kids with a sense of unconditional love. A very trusting father who really leans into the principles that I hold dear, which are, you know, just love and support and honesty. And, you know, I just, I want our kids to know that, and they do, that I'm happy if they're happy. And I want them to work hard and I want them to be focused on their, and if they're lucky enough to find something they love, which both of them seem to have done, I want them to know that there's no substitute for the graft and for the work and, you know, for the dedication and being respectful and of your opportunities

• 28:51Speaker 01

  and making the most of them and keeping a keen, very sharp radar for when the door opens ever so slightly. Know how to walk in and know how to stay. But equally, I just want them to be happy. And I want to be someone who they, they feel, like I said, they feel unconditionally understood.

• 29:05Jay Shetty?

  That takes a lot of work on your part.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Well, especially considering that I didn't even understand myself.

• 29:11Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  So, but I'm very lucky. I mean, if we're going to go there, we'll just go there. Like, you know, I have this incredible partner for life and my wife who has been. I don't even know how to tell you, man. I mean, she's just incredible and.

• 29:25Jay Shetty?

  Sounds it for sure.

• 29:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you get it.

• 29:27Jay Shetty?

  Even through the advice that you said.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  But you get it, but you get it. You get it. You find someone in your life that makes you better. And then you start to figure out how you can make them better because it can't go one way. And then you've got, then you've got something special.

• 29:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, my, my wife is exposed to me flaws that I would have hidden for so long from the world because I could. And then all of a sudden, in a very non judgmental and non critical way, someone helps you realize, not even, it, it's so subconscious as well. It's not even like a teacher. It's not like having a coach or a guide or someone who's telling you or showing you. It's just someone who effortlessly reveals to you parts of yourself that you know they're the only one that sees it.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Well, love is an unspoken language a lot of time. I mean, that's why families, if you, if you have a very loving unit around you, you're able to communicate without saying anything. And I think in a different way, when you, when you develop your own family, your own relationships that, you know, ultimately grow with you over the course of your life, it becomes more of an individual experience that, that, that builds from within that out. The language changes again, but it's still an unspoken thing.

• 30:43Jay Shetty?

  How did you meet?

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. I mean, Cara and I met when we were kids and, and,

• 30:49Speaker 01

  you know, I always say it was love at first sight for me. It just took her like 10 years to figure it out, but we, we weren't together.

• 30:54Jay Shetty?

  Took her 10 years.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, but we weren't, we weren't together for that time. We just, New Zealand's small and we knew each other in certain circles and we were just kids growing up and running around. And then I moved to London and she followed about six to eight months after that, just on her own and just looked me up because we knew each other from back in, back in the day and back home. And she didn't really know anyone out there. And she's like, hey, I'm out in London. If you want to get a beer and.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  This is a true story. We went for a beer at a pub, which I think is called the Famous Cock. I mean, there's a lot of cocks in London that serve beer.

• 31:28Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  There's Famous Cocks and there's Roosters and Cocks and there's like, you know, the Tim's on Henley Cock and there's lots of cocks.

• 31:36Jay Shetty?

  Yep.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  So, um, we went to one of those cocks, uh, I think on Regent Street and it was me and I hope she doesn't mind me telling you this, but I'm sure she wouldn't because it's a great footnote in our story. It was me and a, and a good friend of ours who still is a good friend of ours called Hoss and Kat Dealey, who I, who I knew from MTV, um, who was just getting her break in MTV and doing some great stuff as a, even as a, as a young person on TV. And so we all went for a pint and that's how we connected with her. And then from there, our story started to unfold and, and would have to drink wine to tell her to tell you the rest of that. But, uh, you know, it's just long and brilliant and, you know, unique, like everyone's story. But yeah, I mean, I'd know, I've known hers. I mean, I always joke, I had to move halfway around the world to marry someone I'd known most of my life from home.

• 32:21Jay Shetty?

  How did, when you've known someone for that long, I always wonder how you allow that growth on both sides. Because I guess when you've known someone for that long, you've, you've been three different people or at least more of who you are. And she's becoming more of who she really is. Like, how have you continued? Cause you said you've been over together for over two decades or something like that.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, nearly 24 years we've been married.

• 32:41Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, 24 years we've been married, you said. Exactly. Which is a really long time. Congratulations. Like, how, was that conscious and intentional or you've both just been flowing?

• 32:51Speaker 01

  To stay together that long?

• 32:52Jay Shetty?

  To stay together, but more importantly to, it seems, and it sounds from what I'm hearing, that you've kind of grown together during that time and allowed the growth.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  I think you can stay together unless you grow together, otherwise you grow apart. Well, you know, we got, we got married quickly, you know? We were together and it was like, oh, this is meant to be. And then for one reason or another, our marriage was really dictated by other things. It was like, uh, visa issues and she'll have to go home. And because, you know, we, we didn't, we didn't have a, I could stay in London, she couldn't. And so, you know, it really came down to like, look, if there's a future for this, then this, this has to be the only way forward. And so we got married and. It was in a registry office and with two witnesses, you know, and it was short of telling our parents, which we did about two weeks beforehand. I mean, it would have been we would have eloped. I mean, it was it was so fast. And, you know, I think both of us felt like

• 33:43Speaker 01

  it was forever, but I think it's kind of too simplistic to say that we were dead. You know, I think we were just trying to keep it going.

• 33:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  I think we were just like, look, this is really great. We don't know what the future holds, but if you have to leave and I stay, it's going to make it that much harder for us to find out. And in a way, that works for the kind of people that we are. I mean, not to speak for her. I'm very conscious not to do that because she's her own person, but um, you know, I think I think both of us just liked finding out and we're still finding out. And I think that's what's cool about it is that um, we didn't go into it with some kind of major pressure with no disrespect. I've been to some incredible weddings and I think you should be entitled to celebrate your union however you want, but for us, not feeling there were sort of 150 pairs of eyes on us, you know, like, this is for life, everybody. Like, I mean, it just suited us to just get going, just get to work.

• 34:33Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Like, we just woke up one day and we're like, let's just get to work. And we have, and we've been working at it ever since, and it takes work, but as someone said to me once, you know, um, even even the days when it seems like it's really hard work, um, the next day, um, like anything in life, the hard work pays off.

• 34:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. So just so you know, we had 400 people at our wedding and I'll tell you why. Because in an Indian household, your parents are obliged

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:56Jay Shetty?

  to invite

• 34:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:57Jay Shetty?

  every person that's ever invited them to their kid's wedding. So it's

• 35:02Speaker 01

  So you could literally, you could start the ball rolling early and just invite everybody, whether you know them or not.

• 35:09Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 35:09Speaker 01

  And then just be like, I am set for the rest of my life. I have so many great experiences I'm going to have.

• 35:14Jay Shetty?

  Literally, and they only get better, right?

• 35:16Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 35:17Jay Shetty?

  So it's like, literally, my parents and my girlfriends have a list of people that have to be invited to the wedding because they've been to their kids' weddings.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  Love that.

• 35:24Jay Shetty?

  And so half the wedding list is

• 35:27Speaker 01

  You're like, who are these people?

• 35:28Jay Shetty?

  I mean, we don't know. Like, my wife still talks about it. We're like, walking around at our reception, saying hello, and my wife's like, I have no idea who this person is. And so, and that's small for an Indian wedding. Like, I have friends who had like 500 to 1,000 people at their wedding. We were somewhat given some

• 35:42Speaker 01

  In a way, it's not dissimilar because it's not like you're signing like some kind of emotional contract for these people, you know?

• 35:48Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, no, it's not a draw.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  It just comes down to, it just comes down to the union, to the to the team. And it's like, it either works or it doesn't. I don't hold my parents I don't have any ill will against, you know, toward my parents or hold them responsible for the end of their marriage. It just, it ceased to exist.

• 36:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 36:04Speaker 01

  And it happens all the time. I've got good friends going through it right now.

• 36:08Jay Shetty?

  Same, yeah.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  I, I, I just think for us, we, we try to keep things really simple. We make each other laugh, like a lot. And if it's not the same thing, it's, it's, it's, it's at each other.

• 36:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  She gives that to me, like she really dishes out a lot, you know, like you're a moron kind of stuff, you know? And I am. So it's easy, it's, it's an easy joke. And then I think beyond that, we like each other's company. And we know that we're not always going to agree. But we know that it's not gonna, it's, it's, it's not gonna get in between the simple principles that keep us together. She's just smarter, better, way hotter. You know, she's just, I definitely married her.

• 36:54Jay Shetty?

  That's beautiful. You talked about having a social anxiety and, and, you know, being a DJ and talking about how, we were joking about how it's easier to get away with that. But obviously in your career, there's been so many opportunities, as you said, with your children, you want them to be able to walk through the door and stay there. And that requires one to kind of negotiate through that social anxiety sometimes. I'm sure you've had to walk into the rooms and pitch yourself and hold your own and negotiate and then stand your ground and whatever it may be, talk to lawyers and, you know, there's so much to it when you're in, and I feel like there's so many people who are listening and watching where social anxiety is at a point where it cripples them. It stops them from walking into rooms, starting that conversation. What was, what were you saying to yourself?

• 37:39Jay Shetty?

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• 38:24Jay Shetty?

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• 39:07Jay Shetty?

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• 39:50Jay Shetty?

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• 39:58Speaker 01

  What experiences? It's case by case. You know, my friend was having a function the other night, beautiful function, a total, a reason to celebrate. And I, I, I nearly was like, I can't go. There wasn't any valid reason for me to not go in my mind from a cerebral kind of, oh, that makes sense. None of it made sense. And then there were times when, you know, I'm skipping out the door. It just depends. I mean, for me, in terms of like breaking it up into two things, because you make, you made some good points. Like in terms of like the social side of it, I try to be kind to myself. I try to allow myself the space to make a decision that's as pressure free as possible. And then more often than not, I find good valid reasons to continue forward. I feel that if I apply too much pressure on myself, most of it's unreal.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  And then I'll end up just not going anyway. And then I'll feel bad. Cause the unreal will evaporate and I realize that I made a decision that wasn't based in the real. So I try to, I try to, I know myself enough to get ahead of that and just be like, you don't have to do anything. Don't go. And once I just tell myself that, I'm like, oh, well, there's a couple of good reasons to go. You know, and I start to bring myself forward on that. In terms of the work side of it and the, and getting in the room. I don't know what to tell you. I mean, the few times when I've, when I've, I, I know that I've had to step up and do something that's ultimately helped change the shape of my journey. And therefore my family's journey or whatever. That's when you start getting into the intangible a bit for me.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Into the sort of, the magic of the moment and what makes performers, athletes, surgeons. I mean, I'm going lofty, but anybody, I mean, some heroes. People do out of body things. It's nowhere near on the same level. And I'm not trying to put like, getting in a room and pitching your best shit at the same thing. But it, it exists in the same space of like, I don't quite know why, what's motivating this extra gear. But I'm using it. And I think true greatness comes from people who know how to access it more consciously than I do at this point in my life.

• 41:59Speaker 01

  You know, you, you're talking about, you know, the Michael Jordans of this world, who can, the Beyoncés of this world who are like, I can, you know, they don't shy away from the occasion. They level up. They see it. They know what it is. They understand. And I'm just talking about the arts now respectfully to everybody else like, cause if I start, you know, going in apologizing for every other outlet or occupation or thing in life. It's more important than the arts to everyone else. Then I'm just going to end up in a like the feeder position and this podcast is going to be over. So I'm just focusing.

• 42:24Jay Shetty?

  Based on your background.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  I know how it goes. I know how it goes. There's more important things in life than music and the arts. I get it and I respect it. But for me, that's the world I'm in. So I'm just going to focus on that. So, um. In the performing arts, you know, I watch, I watch people all the time step up further than they have before. And I just think it's something in us that, um, is there. And sometimes the occasion requires it. And sometimes you meet someone who has found a way to harness it. And that is when you start dealing with like the greats, like the people who just, they see it. They manifest it, it happens, but then they recognize that it's happening. And then they recognize the feeling and then they remember that feeling and then they practice

• 43:09Speaker 01

  that feeling and then they get the ball and with point three, point three seconds to go every time. And that's like, that's when you're dealing with just another level. I'm not there. But I've had a few moments in my life when that gear's kicked in and I love it. I mean, you know, the job I'm in now, I mean, I, I, I nearly got on a plane and flew home because I just was like, I don't know where this is going and I'm unhappy. I don't think, I don't feel, I don't feel like I can do this. And I had a big meeting the next day and I went the next day and I had a great meeting and it changed everything. So who knows, man? I mean, it just comes out of nowhere, but I'm, I'm more interested in the people who just somehow know how to like kick that shit into action.

• 43:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 43:45Speaker 01

  Because they exist.

• 43:46Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. They exist. Yeah. There's a beautiful book called Flow. I don't know if you've ever come across it. I forget the author's name. It's like Mihaly. I think it's a name. If I mess it up, everyone, please do not be mad at me. I think it's Cheeks Sent Mihaly. I think that's how it's said. Mihaly Cheeks Sent Mihaly. The book's called Flow. And that's what you're describing, this flow state that people experience where you see freestylers, rappers, musicians, you know, athletes, artists where

• 44:15Jay Shetty?

  time stops, but it's really fast and no one knows what's happening. Like it almost feels like time slows down and speeds up at the same time.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  I've had a couple of conversations in that state, weirdly, like on the record, like, like interview situations where it's like, there's been such a nice mood in the room. And I feel that there's such a strong, like to and fro going on in terms of the question, the answer, and then the question, the answer. And it's just been, I'm like, wow. And then someone's like, okay, time. It's been going for like two hours. I'm like, it was like that.

• 44:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  I mean, you must have done that too.

• 44:44Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  It's lovely. It's really cool when it happens like that too, because it's human experience with somebody else. So it feels really nice. I also, you know, my social anxiety, I think, I think it's, it's, it's unique for everybody. I mean, I have no problem walking in a room and being around people.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  But there's difference between being present and fitting in or playing a role that you think is going to serve a purpose for that environment or that party or whatever, and just being able to be comfortable in yourself. That's what I'm talking about. Like, I'm not always and very often entirely comfortable. I just have figured out how to maintain. But there's always something in me that's felt that like my skin's a little bit too tight, or my brain's not really focused on what someone's asking me. And I'm, I guess that's what I'm, that's my form of social anxiety, you know?

• 45:36Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And I think I find that most people at events, especially in the entertainment and the arts, feel that way. I don't know many people who don't feel that way.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's good to hear. I mean, I definitely do.

• 45:45Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, whether it's at an award show, or whether it's at a red carpet, or whenever I speak to people behind the scenes, that's the number one emotion that people are experiencing. And everyone's feeling it in a different way.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  So why do you think that is?

• 45:57Jay Shetty?

  I think it's because the way events are organized, they're not crafted for community and connection.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:06Jay Shetty?

  So the challenge is that the way it's been built is not set up for people to come in and feel. So I went to one place that was, I went to Cannes Lions last week. I'd never been to the Lions Festival before. It was my first time there. I'd been to Cannes. And it was crafted for community. Like, I felt like you could walk into any space, you connect with people, you could hang out with people, you bumped into people walking in and out of stuff. No one had an ego where people were like, you know, on a high horse.

• 46:30Speaker 01

  And maybe that's part of our evolutionary state. I mean, we always talk about-

• 46:33Jay Shetty?

  That's seventy five years of that festival.

• 46:34Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying. And maybe we need to actually just start looking at every single micro experience, rather than like, we're all going to evolve, like, something's going to happen, we're all going to evolve. It's like, maybe we are. And maybe it is just like, right down to the smallest thing, like an event like that, where being able to walk in there and for you to feel connected to people, and like, you came away with something that was meaningful, not just valuable. Maybe that's going to inspire people to do it in multiple different places. I mean- I would like that. I've gotten better at just maintaining.

• 46:59Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Like, when you're younger, it's like, oh, my gosh, everything rests on this night. And then after a while, you're like, can we go?

• 47:07Jay Shetty?

  That's exactly what it is. You're spot on. That's exactly what it is. Like, when you first, I remember that when I first moved to LA, I went somewhere, it was like, oh, my God, if I don't make this move right now, that's the end of my career. And then, like, years later, you're like, actually, it didn't affect it at all.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Someone asked a friend of mine who I was working with at the time, someone in the industry was like, is Zane afraid of success? When I first got to LA, because I wasn't in sixty-five parties a night, running around doing everything and then.

• 47:29Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah. And my goals become very clearly. My intention is always like, can I find one person tonight who I can bear myself? Like, is there one person that I can fully be myself? Because then at that event, I've fully been myself.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  So how do you know who that person is? I know it probably changes, but is there a constant to that?

• 47:45Jay Shetty?

  You can get a sense pretty quick, obviously, and like we're saying, it's respective to what you personally are interested in. So for me, I'm, I'm hoping that I can have a conversation like I'm having with you today, which is meaningful, it's purposeful, it's vulnerable, it's, it's open, it's thoughtful, it's about growth, it's about being better.

• 48:00Speaker 01

  Like, but when I walked in the house today, and we met for the first time, and we sort of held each other's gaze for a second, and it was like, all right, cool, we've got this moment here, like, it's, it's more than just like transactional, like, all right, if we're gonna do this, let's do this, and let's start and see where this relationship goes in the future, right? It's not just gonna be like, good to be on your podcast, next.

• 48:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  Like, is that, like, is there a technique to how you do, how you find people?

• 48:21Jay Shetty?

  I wouldn't say it's a technique. I think it's more of a intuition. Like, I do believe it's energetic as opposed to like, ask these three questions. You know, like, I don't, I don't think I have a, like, a, a formula like that. But I feel like you can usually tell by someone's language, body language, and emotional languages to whether you're on the same frequency or vibration. I find over time, I've been able to, to sense that. And, and I've also realized where your ego wants to force it with someone, because there's personal gain or there's importance.

• 48:54Speaker 01

  That's big self-awareness energy right there.

• 48:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you can tell when it's like, oh, there actually isn't a frequency, but I'm pretending there is, or hoping there is, or trying to manufacture it, because I think this person could do something for me, or I'm useful to them, or I feel significance because I'm being useful to them.

• 49:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think also realizing that you don't want to be that to someone, but also someone's trying to be that to you.

• 49:16Jay Shetty?

  Correct.

• 49:16Speaker 01

  Is really important for anybody going into any, any area of life. And it's something that I think. Um. People should try to develop that radar from a young age because it'll save you so much time.

• 49:26Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  And energy.

• 49:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  And also, it's fine to acknowledge that you're doing that to me and I'm doing that to you because we're in a trade. That's totally fine.

• 49:35Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  Great work, great things come out of that.

• 49:37Jay Shetty?

  Oh, for sure.

• 49:38Speaker 01

  But friendship is different. Like, I'm really realizing how important my friendships are and I'm and and there are multiple types of friendships. There are people I love to just hang out with and sometimes some of them I like to talk industry with and music with. And they're not the people I'm gonna call up and have a heart to heart with about someone else. Uh, and there are others that, you know, I know I can call up when I'm in a low point or they can call me and and and there is that. I think it's just understanding that, you know, we all serve, we all serve a purpose. And if you're in someone's life, you've got a purpose, just understand, try to understand what that purpose is. That's what being thoughtful with your thoughtfulness is to me. Like, maybe I'm not the person to pick the phone up and check on someone's wellbeing because that's not the kind of friend I am to that person, but they have those friends.

• 50:17Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Doesn't mean I'm not their friend.

• 50:19Jay Shetty?

  Correct. Yeah. Yeah, we have different relationships with different people in our life that that serve us in different ways and we serve in different ways. And knowing how you do that for someone is is so important.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  It's really important. And yeah, it's that's that's a big self-awareness lesson that I think, you know, it took me a while to figure that out. I was always trying to like be all things to everyone, I think.

• 50:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  For a lot of my life, trying to fix everything, be all things, be this, be that, be funny, be caring, this, like, sometimes just be funny or not, just try.

• 50:45Jay Shetty?

  That's a great point. I love that. Yeah, that's that's actually really powerful to think that. Like, I think you're so right. We want to be all of ourselves to everyone.

• 50:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, because we're covering all the bases.

• 50:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, covering all the bases. Yeah. And and we, there's that subtle ego in like, we want to be considered funny and this and smart and this.

• 51:03Speaker 01

  But how do you manage your ego in a situation like this where you where you, I mean, you said at the very beginning, you have the number one health podcast in the world. Congratulations, by the way. Like, that's that's a real thing to have a number one of anything, but to have a number one in an area where you're adding so much value and support to people. But the very nature of a number one anything is really, that's just like. You know, bourbon for the ego, right? It's like number one is like by its very nature is connected to an ego experience. How do you continue to build around success but manage? What's your relationship like with your ego in this environment?

• 51:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's a, I would say it's a constant conversation on a daily basis between my conscious self and my ego self. I think that it's something I have to be vigilant of on a daily basis because of the world we live in and the environment we're in. Just someone that I mentor messaged me this morning and he's kind of having a real moment in his career and things are going well. And he was saying the same thing to me, he goes, Jay, I don't think this is healthy for me. Like I'm worried about my ego. And I was like, this is amazing. The fact that you're even aware and you're conscious and you're because 99% of the time you have the success and then it falls apart. And then you think about your ego. And so for me, I, there are a few things that I do.

• 52:20Jay Shetty?

  The first thing is that I always look at how I compare to the work I really want to do. So the impact I really want to make in the world is not just downloads or views or whatever else or numbers. It's actually, I'm trying to create a journey for everyone that connects with my work. From entertainment through to education, through to personal enlightenment in how they define that term. And to me, it's like, I'm trying to create that journey by building steps that I know from the journey that I've been on, the journey that I'm still on.

• 53:03Jay Shetty?

  And the journey that I've learned from the greats and trying to put those building blocks in place for people. And my goal is unless I'm helping people walk that journey, the number is insignificant.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  But the, but the beautiful thing is, because by the way, I'm not anti ego, like ego serves an important role.

• 53:17Jay Shetty?

  No, this is a great conversation.

• 53:17Speaker 01

  You know, there's ego and it and those two things need to be managed in a way that with, like I said, a sense of self-awareness and understanding of what is going to press your buttons, both positive and negative. But what I'm interested in is like, it's interesting because, because you're building this thing internally from within your own vision, your own, what inspires you. It's come from this tiny little fire that you're building into this beautiful thing that helps people, but you can't help. More people without your ego serving a purpose, a role.

• 53:46Jay Shetty?

  Yes, absolutely. And so I think engaging it and being aware of it are the only two options you have. Because I think that when you try and ignore that, there were probably even times in my life where I tried to suppress the desire to do and make an impact because you think it's ego, not realizing that then it's just brewing. And now you're envious of everyone else.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  That's why the word humility is so interesting to me, right? Because we kick around humility all the time like it's a really important, positive part of our makeup. And it is, it can be, there's a time to be humble. And there's no universally sort of positive humility. And there's no universally negative ego, complexities across both of them. But it's interesting, isn't it? Like you can find yourself, if you deny your ability and what you love and your talent and your ambition too much, you find yourself in a false state of humility and you can't help the people you want to help. So it's ultimately turning your back on what you should be doing.

• 54:40Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And to me, ego, when it gets dangerous is when you feel better or worse than others. And so I feel like there's a difference between doing what you think you're meant to do and doing it well than thinking you do it better. Like I am friends with so many people in this space who do, who are number one in their fields. But and even in a similar field in a different way, like I know a phenomenal set of scientists in this space who are doing incredible health and wellness work and are number one in the way they do it. But it's like, I have my own version and I have my own way and method. And that's what I'm excited and have an ego about, I guess, is the idea that I'm doing what I'm doing. But it's not a, it doesn't make me better than someone or worse than someone. And I think.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  So interesting, isn't it though? Because growing up, like in music, there is an innate competitiveness of wanting to be the best. And in sports, you won't find, you won't find a coach that will look you in the eye and tell you that that attitude is going to get you to be the best in the world, right? So it's so interesting how we relate to this thing that I think we know very little about.

• 55:43Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, which is, which is why I think some of the best athletes, like I know that. Cristiano Ronaldo, who's the biggest football and soccer star in the world for anyone.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  Is he though?

• 55:52Jay Shetty?

  I mean, him and Messi.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Messi, yeah. We just did a little Rolling Stones Beatles thing.

• 55:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, exactly. The world is divided. My TikTok feeds me Cristiano Ronaldo.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  My one feeds me Messi.

• 56:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, there you go.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  We're a complete human being.

• 56:04Jay Shetty?

  And now we're in the US and so Messi, everyone's excited because Messi's coming to Inter Miami.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  Get on board, man.

• 56:09Jay Shetty?

  And he's awesome. And my point being that whenever he does an interview, I always see him say, I have to think I'm the best in the world. Like, I have to think that way is what he'll say.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:18Jay Shetty?

  And I think that's really interesting language because he's not saying I am or I definitely am. He's saying, I have to think that way in order to perform at my best.

• 56:25Speaker 01

  So he's dividing it into a mentality versus a reality.

• 56:29Jay Shetty?

  Correct, yeah, exactly. That's beautifully said, yeah, exactly. And I think that that's what's so fascinating that if you sat down with Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant, who I had the pleasure of interviewing, or today LeBron, it's like, I'm sure they have to feel that way. But it's whether like if they were, you know, all things said and done behind closed doors, you know, I'm sure they have an opinion on stuff that you can say when you're retired too, that you couldn't say when you were playing.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  Are you a manifestor?

• 56:56Jay Shetty?

  I would honestly say I've been an accidental unintentional manifestor. So I don't believe that I ever set out to say, okay, I believe in manifestation. I know how it works and I'm going to do it. I don't think I ever had that. I've just had things happen in my life where I can track back when I first visualized it in my mind and then it came to fruition, but I never intended for that to happen.

• 57:19Speaker 01

  And so when that happened, did you ever have the intention to try to kind of do it more or master it or anything else? Or were you just like, I love the curiosity of that. I like to let it happen.

• 57:27Jay Shetty?

  I love the curiosity and I love the magic of it because that also makes me realize that it's beyond me. And I like that humility.

• 57:34Speaker 01

  I love that. Okay, so the mystery of it is, that's cool.

• 57:37Jay Shetty?

  That surrender of it, that I don't, I love the idea that it's happening and it's happening in my life so subconsciously.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:45Jay Shetty?

  That it also makes me recognize that there is more than me to this.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  I'm more like you than I am like some of the other people who I know who, you know, are continually searching for that feeling that they can, and with some success, to be fair.

• 57:58Jay Shetty?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. I know people who I consider to manipulate material energy. Like they have that, they have that ability and I don't.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  Ryan Reynolds, Ryan Reynolds is a master manifestor.

• 58:07Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  I'm so sorry, but you cannot take Wrexham. And do that unless you know how to bend energy forms.

• 58:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, absolutely. That's the point.

• 58:17Speaker 01

  And sell billion dollar telecom companies.

• 58:19Jay Shetty?

  Oh, yeah, Mint. Yeah, and I don't think there's a right or wrong again. Like, I don't think someone who focuses on manifesting in the in the sense that the way it's been packaged or marketed is a bad thing. It's just not the way I function.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  Can I ask you another question? Is it cool if I ask you a question?

• 58:34Jay Shetty?

  Of course, this is a real conversation. It's uplifting.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  I want to I want to talk to you about ambition, like what your relationship is with your ambition, because you have a big you have you've already built something massive and you want to continue to reach more people. So how do you manage your ambition into something that is balanced with your life?

• 58:52Jay Shetty?

  I think it's evolved over time. So I've always honestly said that when I first started, I was working sixteen to eighteen hour days and seven days a week, but I never missed meditating. And that was always my grounding practice. I was like, I'm gonna meditate and I'm gonna work my socks off because I kind of had that moment of, or at least what I've heard when you were saying that about your kids, like, I remember the first time I felt the door open. And I was just like, I never believed this door would ever open. Like, I have to be so grateful and responsible for this.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  And that was through meditation?

• 59:26Jay Shetty?

  That was no, no, no, that was oh, no, spiritually, that had happened. I mean, like, externally with building a platform.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  Got it, got it. Like, when you realize, like, wow, I have a shot.

• 59:35Jay Shetty?

  I have an opportunity to do this in a like, I was happy and content. And anyone who knows me that back then would verify this, like, I was happy and content doing what I do today for the ten people that showed up every week for ten years.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:48Jay Shetty?

  And I was so happy. I didn't feel like, oh, there's not enough people or like, oh, my God, I'm not like, I just felt grateful and happy that even ten people would show up. And I loved it. And then at one point, I did feel I was like, I feel this message matters. The people that are coming are having great success from it. I think it should reach more people. So I should attempt to. And when I attempted and it and I had that first glimpse, then I was like, wow, I'm so grateful and I should be responsible for this. And I shouldn't take this, I should take this as a gift. And I should give my heart and soul to it, not just live off this momentary, you know, success. So for me, that's to me, the graft was me expressing my gratitude back to the universe to say, I see that you've given literal me a shot.

• 1:00:32Jay Shetty?

  And I feel my only way of expressing my thanks and appreciation back to you for this gift is to show you that I'm willing to work for it.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  To make the most of it.

• 1:00:41Jay Shetty?

  Correct. So that was like a couple of years where I did that. As soon as I started doing that and things started to grow externally, I started to realize, all right, this is not sustainable. Like on an energy level.

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:51Jay Shetty?

  And so then I cut back. So then I was like, I'm only going to work five days a week. So I took my weekends back. I was still working evenings. Now I'm at a point where I've taken my weekends and my evenings back.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  Cause that, cause that to me is like, that's, that's the crucial moment where perhaps some like maturity and some life and some, some distance between youthful ambition, the desire that I've got to go and take every opportunity I can. Versus where you were at that moment in your life really served you.

• 1:01:14Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  Because, because that, that's the moment when I think it can consume people.

• 1:01:20Jay Shetty?

  Yep.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  And relationships.

• 1:01:23Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:23Speaker 01

  Get hurt and, or, or get torched. And we chase something so far down the road that we forget where we wanted to go in the first place.

• 1:01:31Jay Shetty?

  Totally.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 1:01:33Jay Shetty?

  That's a really great point. And, and I think for me, it was like.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  That was a turning point for you that moment, right?

• 1:01:37Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And at the beginning, it was just like, all right, all that matters is this and my wife. Like, those are the only two things that mattered. I don't really have time for anything more than that. And now I'm at a point where working backwards, where now my, I only work nine, I have the privilege of only working nine AM to six PM and don't work evenings or weekends. And now I can take care of my wife and my friends and my family.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  Cause you're in the era of no.

• 1:01:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah. And I, and that's, and I think there was an era of complete yes, and there had to be, and there's, there's an era.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  And there has to be.

• 1:02:01Jay Shetty?

  There has to be. And I don't want to lie about not like perfect balance.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  You can't get to know without figuring out like where your line is. And you can't figure that out unless you push yourself. And that's what work is. That's what the working era is. Like when you just grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind. And, but yeah, I'm a, I'm a fan of, of balance. I was talking to someone about this the other day about ambition. Cause I have friends of mine who are never going to stop. And I love them for that. And they just, to them, to them, it's all out there. And why would they ever not grab every opportunity or explore the next thing? And no number's too big and no opportunity's too, too far away. And I, and I love it. And I've definitely been that. In my own way, but I I'm reaching a point in my life, which isn't to say I'm going to turn down opportunities or I'm wanting, I'm, I'm.

• 1:02:49Jay Shetty?

  You're winding down.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  I'm not in semi-retirement mode. I want, I want to do my best work over the next 10 years, but I want to do it in a way that is joyful. And to your point, really make gratitude like the number one driving force. I think to be truly grateful, you need to allow yourself space to be grateful. I think we kick the word gratitude around a lot. I know I've been definitely the kind of person who's like done a hundred things in a day. And then when I've had two minutes at the end of the day gone, I'm really grateful. Uh, yeah, thank you so much for blah, blah, blah. And it's like, it's not a checklist item. Like you've got to feel it.

• 1:03:25Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  And I think to do that, and I guess that's what meditation provide you. I'd never been able to find the space to meditate and calm my mind down enough. I know I will. I just can't force it.

• 1:03:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you have a naturally zen energy there.

• 1:03:37Speaker 01

  That's cool.

• 1:03:38Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, it's like, I, I would have thought you were a meditator, which is quite nice. Yeah, which is, yeah, you, you have that. The, I always said like, I mean, and Kobe Bryant did meditate, but he was the most like, he had the most gravity around him of any person I've ever met. Like he was just like time, like things stood still when he spoke and there was that. But he did meditate, but I feel like you have a real, like, there's a, there's a peace around you, even though it's not, you know, if it's not from that, which is really beautiful in and of itself.

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

  Hard earned peace.

• 1:04:06Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, hard earned peace. Yeah. But, but I, I think it's true. Like, I think also, you know, it's what we're saying about the yes and no. There's also a different time in life for, sometimes it's scale, sometimes it's speed, sometimes it's strategy, sometimes it's sincerity, sometimes it's, you know, like, it's, I, I think what you realize is that if you just go speed, speed, speed, speed, speed, like, that doesn't actually make any sense.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  Well, you miss your opportunities more than you actually grab them, I think.

• 1:04:34Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, you think about like being a Formula One racer. It's not speed at every turn that helps them master the track. Speed's a massive part of it, but.

• 1:04:42Speaker 01

  Only when you need to go fast.

• 1:04:43Jay Shetty?

  Only when you need to go fast, like round the bend. If you just go fast because you're like, no, no, no, I just got to beat the other guy. You could potentially turn over and throw the. You know, the the racer way.

• 1:04:52Speaker 01

  That's why I love boxing so much. Like, I've just started to like, like, do boxing training and stuff.

• 1:04:56Jay Shetty?

  My wife boxes.

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  It's the most fun. It's the it's the greatest exercise I've ever done. I've struggled with exercise my whole life. Fits and starts like everybody else. No pun, well, pun very much intended. Um, but yeah, this is a whole other level. I love it, right? And the reason I love it is because like my mom has dementia and and she's in the latter stages of dementia, I feel, and it's it's it's been really tough to to witness. But I've also watched her sort of want to hold on to memories and the whole cognitive awareness thing has become very present for me. And what I love about boxing is that it's really, it's it's it's one hundred percent mind and body, and it's about strategy and it's about. People just think you just bash stuff. It's so not.

• 1:05:32Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:33Speaker 01

  The most tiring thing I do when I'm working out boxing is the inside work.

• 1:05:36Jay Shetty?

  And the breathing.

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  I'm not actually punching anything. I'm just trying to push this guy off. Like, that's the most exhausting thing out of any of it. Like, punching the mitts is like just rhythm. That's the driving fast.

• 1:05:47Jay Shetty?

  Correct, yeah. And that's what I mean. I think we just live in one mode of like, speed or or slow. We think we think those are the only two things to play with.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:55Jay Shetty?

  And when you box or if you drive a car or whatever, maybe you start going, oh, wait, there's there's so many other

• 1:05:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:00Jay Shetty?

  dials to play with here.

• 1:06:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:02Jay Shetty?

  And so I think I'm trying to, you know, I've I've realized that and I also realized that it's the same as a hike. Like, getting up the hill is different to staying at the top and getting down again and going deep into the valley. Like,

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:13Jay Shetty?

  it requires a different skill set. And so I try and, you know, I I try and live a very disciplined life health-wise in order to be able to be high performing and I value all of that, like the high performance world. Like, I value all the.

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  Do you have cheat days, though? Do you allow yourself a chance to slip out of routine?

• 1:06:28Jay Shetty?

  Always. I mean, you have to. Like, this morning was one of those mornings.

• 1:06:32Speaker 01

  Well, you just got back off tour for a start, so you're all over the show, right?

• 1:06:34Jay Shetty?

  No, no, no, no, I wasn't. That's the thing. I I allow myself like small windows and then I go back. But like this week, I haven't missed a single workout. And this morning, I last night, I told I told my my friends that I was gonna work out with today. I go, guys, I'm sleeping in tomorrow.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  I'm burnt.

• 1:06:49Jay Shetty?

  I'm not gonna be there. I'm tired. So I I woke up an hour and a half later than I usually wake up today. It was the best thing I ever did and I loved it.

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  Do you sleep well?

• 1:06:57Jay Shetty?

  I sleep, yeah. That's a big thing for me. I actually read you. That's been something you've had to work through, right? Like.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  Dude, I've never been, I'm not a good sleeper. I haven't been a good sleeper. You know what's crazy? And I was telling a friend of mine who's in a band about this this morning, because she was like, I'm just trying to kind of come down off tour. And I said, listen, man, let me give you a bit of advice, and I don't know if it's gonna work for you, but I'm telling you, like, I read somewhere, something ages ago, where Rick. Ruben said that he goes out every morning when he wakes up and exposes himself to natural light.

• 1:07:26Jay Shetty?

  Yes.

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  First thing he does is expose himself to natural light. And then I, someone else said it, someone else said it, and I was like, alright, this is like too many things pointing in this direction. So, and I haven't had a good night's sleep in a long time. And so I started going outside and it was so strange. It was such an alien experience for me to stand out in my yard at like six thirty in the morning, like in my boxer shorts, like, like, I feel like a weirdo. This is really weird. And then the second day felt less weird, the third day felt less weird, and I started putting shorts on because I was like, you know, I'm gonna enjoy this. And I had been sleeping like, like I wake up and my head is just like heavy on the pillow and I'm just rested. Like,

• 1:08:12Speaker 01

  that works.

• 1:08:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  That circadian rhythms thing?

• 1:08:16Jay Shetty?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  I mean, it's crazy. Like, uh, yeah.

• 1:08:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I know. They're all ancient practices, though. I know you do yoga too. And so the ancient yoga asana is called the Surya Namaskar. So what that means is sun salutations. And so the ancient practice was the first thing you do in the morning is you salute the sun.

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:08:38Jay Shetty?

  Which was that bathing and gazing and paying respects to the sun.

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:42Jay Shetty?

  And that was the, that was what was happening. Like your circadian rhythm was kicking off.

• 1:08:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:46Jay Shetty?

  Now you're on that, you know.

• 1:08:47Speaker 01

  And we, and we sit there and we read that and we think, oh, it's, it's, it's only a worship to the sun. It's all worship based. But actually, it can be worship based and it can also be lifestyle related.

• 1:08:56Jay Shetty?

  Exactly.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  They were figuring out how to get a good night's sleep.

• 1:08:59Jay Shetty?

  Exactly. Yeah. They were figuring out how to get vitality and energy as well. And that's what they were paying gratitude to the sun for. And your day started with gratitude, but for everything, not just for being the sun, but for the light, the heat, the warmth. I mean, for everything that it provides, right? So.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  So we have all this literature and all these, these opportunities, like even in this conversation, to be able to just dive into all of this. And, and there'll be the people who roll their eyes and they're probably not listening or watching. And there'll be the people who are open and absorbing and ready to sort of try and make positive changes and help others further down the line. But where do you think we're going wrong? Like, if the ancient species were saluting the sun, increasing their ability to be able to manifest good things, understood the power of gratitude, understood the power of rest, understood what they needed in order to maintain that. This is thousands of years ago. Why do you think we seem to be getting either further away from that or trying to get back to that? But we haven't actually gone on from that?

• 1:09:57Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I mean, it's a it's a big question. And one place I really experienced it beautifully was when I was in Hawaii. And every morning we

• 1:10:04Speaker 01

  Which island?

• 1:10:05Jay Shetty?

  We were on the big island.

• 1:10:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:10:06Jay Shetty?

  So in Kona.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  Kauai is like

• 1:10:08Jay Shetty?

  I've heard, I need to go, I need to go, yeah.

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  Ever been to a place where the the the energy, the ley lines and the oxygen coming up from the ocean is so intense. It's amazing.

• 1:10:18Jay Shetty?

  I need to go next year and you'll have to give me all the recommendations.

• 1:10:21Speaker 01

  No, I've got no recommendations. It's not that kind of place. The beautiful thing is it's a low, it's just pure local, like it's not like a go here, go here, go. Just rent and just get a really awesome little Airbnb near the ocean. That's my recommendation.

• 1:10:32Jay Shetty?

  Okay, good.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  And just barefooted to the coffee store every day.

• 1:10:34Jay Shetty?

  I love it.

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  Anyway, sorry.

• 1:10:35Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, no, no, no, no. And so I remember when in Hawaii, we'd get like a kayak every morning. One of their, I forget the official name of this big like canoe kayak, they have a name for it. Jumped in, we'd go out, they'd paid their respects to the sun. They had their own offerings, which I loved learning about. They'd offer it to the water like. So what I find that where we've gone wrong is that we've unlearned and reconditioned to a new way of working. So hard and so strong and for so long that undoing that and resetting our habits to be healthy for us is the biggest challenge. So discipline is ninety nine percent of the challenge. And I think the problem is that because if you think about school, which was the only thing that had the opportunity to discipline us and parenting.

• 1:11:20Jay Shetty?

  Those are probably the only two things that you have.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  Certainly our introduction to it.

• 1:11:23Jay Shetty?

  Your introduction to it. As school discipline, you always knew what you were gonna do. You always knew what the next grade was. You knew what the next class was. It was all mapped out for you. You never actually had to discipline yourself. And so when that runs out at age eighteen or twenty one, whenever you finish school, you now are left to your own devices to figure out discipline.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:43Jay Shetty?

  And you've never actually been taught how to build a habit, how to break a habit, how to grow discipline, how to end discipline, right? You just, and that's really what's missing. Like my wife has single handedly coached me to better eating habits than anyone ever has in my life. And I had to live with her. Every single day, you know, for the past seven years for her to do that for me. And I'm like, well, if I didn't live with her, I don't think I would be able to do these health changes. Like to me, eating pizza, burgers, you know, a Sprite or a seven up like that was my like.

• 1:12:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:14Jay Shetty?

  Every other day.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:15Jay Shetty?

  And then all of a sudden I married my wife and she's just like.

• 1:12:17Speaker 01

  What are you doing?

• 1:12:19Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, and you know, like, and I'm like, well, wait a minute, it took that much coaching and guidance and steer. So I don't think anyone's at fault. I think it's more that society set us up to not know how to. The biggest skill you can learn is how to build a habit and how to break a habit.

• 1:12:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, because, because one of the best things that we're capable of doing, but we tend to use against ourselves is the ability to absorb and translate.

• 1:12:40Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 1:12:41Speaker 01

  And it's like, all right, if you can manipulate that, if you know how to put things in, because we're really complex, but also quite simple.

• 1:12:47Jay Shetty?

  Totally. Everything's a routine.

• 1:12:49Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:12:49Jay Shetty?

  Everything's a pattern.

• 1:12:50Speaker 01

  It takes one person to do something cool and we're quite a sing- we, we live in a singularity pretty quickly. It's just like, you know what I mean? It's just like, oh, that's cool. Let's all do that.

• 1:12:56Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  Right? We all do it.

• 1:12:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, it's, it's interesting, isn't it? Like, I, I think you're right. We allow ourselves and, and to your point about discipline. We need to have the confidence in our own abilities and in our own um determination to be disciplined enough to do what's right for ourselves.

• 1:13:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:13Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:13:14Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:14Speaker 01

  Because otherwise I think we are susceptible to the, the shiny lights.

• 1:13:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, of course. And, and I think that discipline comes ultimately through going, what is truly valuable to me? It goes back to what you were saying. That, that singularity of not having this fragmented approach to, I wanna be this and I wanna be this for that person. I wanna do that, you know, it's. It's well, what do I, what do I care about? You, you used to overwork too, right? Like that was a big, big thing for you.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  Big.

• 1:13:41Jay Shetty?

  Did it lead to, did you ever get to that brink of burnout and pain? And that's what.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  Yes, absolutely, man. I had physical pain for like five years.

• 1:13:51Jay Shetty?

  Chronic pain, like.

• 1:13:52Speaker 01

  I wouldn't say it was chronic. It was a consistent, there were consistent pains.

• 1:13:56Jay Shetty?

  Where in the body, like?

• 1:13:57Speaker 01

  Arm, finger.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  Um, neck, lower back, hip.

• 1:14:03Jay Shetty?

  Wow, a lot, yeah, a lot of places.

• 1:14:05Speaker 01

  Lot of pressure points and um, a lot of it really was, well, there's a couple of things going on there. There was some, there was some, some stuff I had to process from one side of the brain to the other that I hadn't done. So it was stuck in my body. So once I actually started to work that through in therapy.

• 1:14:19Jay Shetty?

  And you did that all through therapy, that shit?

• 1:14:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. Yeah, my guy put me to sleep. Once he basically broke it down for me, I was like, for twenty minutes, woke up and three weeks later, things started to dissipate. But also I was, I was absorbing, I was absorbing a lot into my body through of, of the, of the work and the stress and the overwork. Um, cause I, I didn't have anywhere else to put it. And so my body was trying to protect me. It was like, well, we'll store it, but after a while, that body gets filled up and then it starts to ache and hurt and, and the pain starts to happen. And I really genuinely thought, I'm just gonna live with these aches. This will be it for the rest of my life, right? As long as it doesn't kill me, I can live with it. Why would you wanna live with pain? So I'm so glad that I was able to kind of start to unlock that.

• 1:14:59Jay Shetty?

  So verbal release, you, all the therapy you did was traditional therapy?

• 1:15:03Speaker 01

  It was more even just a concept that actually, in my mind, in my brain, I had been storing it in an area where my brain is telling me to put it all in here. And what I need to do is, is to create space in here to put it somewhere, which has infinitely more ability to be able to process and distribute and remove and, and, and to release. So I needed to get it over there. And, and as simplistic as that sounds, it just worked for me. I mean, it was a concept and perhaps it's rooted in truth and perhaps it's not. There, I'm sure there'd be people who are saying, what are you talking about? And other people who'd be like, ah, that's exactly right. But you know, the way that it was, it was, it was explained to me was that I had been storing it in my brain because I didn't have the ability to be able to deal with it emotionally. And so I didn't want to.

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  And so once I figured out that I didn't have anything to be afraid of, just talk it through, get it out, release it, let it go, it started to transfer and the pain started to disappear.

• 1:15:50Jay Shetty?

  That's the first time I've heard about that in therapy. That's cool.

• 1:15:52Speaker 01

  But I was working through it.

• 1:15:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:54Speaker 01

  Like working around the clock, because again, it's a great distraction, isn't it? You know, getting up and going to work is a great way to spend your time, avoiding things that you don't really wanna have to deal with. And it's also more productive. So the harder you work, the more you achieve, the more you achieve, the more you tell yourself you're okay, the more you tell yourself you're okay, not dealing with.

• 1:16:11Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely.

• 1:16:11Speaker 01

  So it's like, okay, you know.

• 1:16:13Jay Shetty?

  And the opposite, the opposite is also true, which is why back to your argument of balance. Like the opposite is also true where you, if you're too idle and there's no direction and there's no pursuit and there's no work.

• 1:16:22Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, for sure. There's, there's an infinite amount of ways to do it. I'm just, that's how I did it.

• 1:16:27Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:27Speaker 01

  And, um, and you know, there's a difference between working hard and, and, or working and working hard, right? Like, like for me, it's like, I love to work and I love to work hard, but I don't have to work hard to be working well. Right? I can, I can, I can do it in a way that is like, you know, efficient and good for my balance. Excuse me, good for my balance. My decision-making got better. My ability to delegate got better. I became less stressed out about the things that I didn't have any reason and or right to be stressed out about. I stopped feeling I needed to respond to every single email and every single thing. And I started to trust the process. And I don't know, you have to ask my colleagues, but I feel like I'm happier and better at what I do.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  So yeah, I'm a, I'm a big believer in, in just because you put in the hours in, doesn't mean you're actually getting the most out of it.

• 1:17:16Jay Shetty?

  Absolutely, absolutely. You've sat with so many of the, you know, most iconic artists of our time. And, and this generation and, you know, you, you're a brilliant interviewer. You ask awesome questions. You listen so effectively. Like it's, it's fun to watch, like genuinely fun to watch. Who do you feel was like wise beyond their years or, or like an old soul? But because most of them are young, like a lot of, a lot of them are very young. Who did you find was kind of like?

• 1:17:44Speaker 01

  You know, I find the conversations that leave me most inspired and feeling like something in my life has changed and I've, I've learned something new. Tend to come from the people who reached a point in their life where they're not trying to sell something anymore. And they don't have to do this. It's, there's some value in the conversation and perhaps they're looking for a learning themselves. The truth is more often than not, I find elements of that in everybody because I'm not.

• 1:18:24Speaker 01

  Trying to squeeze juice out of the lemon.

• 1:18:26Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm, mm hmm.

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  I'm genuinely not trying to sell anything at this point in my life. I love music, so it's easy for me to talk about it and to say it's great and to back and forth about it. But I don't feel any need and I don't feel there's any requirement for me at this point in my life to try to sell anything. When I go into the conversation, and I don't know if I was gonna ask you a question, because no one immediately springs to mind, because I think I'm not, I'm not existing in a hierarchy anymore.

• 1:18:58Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a beautiful answer.

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  I'm not, I'm not thinking like this person surprised me, or this person was not charming, or this person was wise beyond their years. If you'd asked me that five years ago, I could have given you an answer like that.

• 1:19:10Jay Shetty?

  That's a beautiful answer, I love that.

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  But I'm trying to go into every conversation, whether it's Little Yachty or Neil Young, or Billie Eilish, or you know, whatever. I'm just trying to go into a conversation from a position, just like us, of what is the most interesting and human experience that I can have? And I remove as much of the sell as I can. And I try to get into a place with people where,

• 1:19:42Speaker 01

  like I don't really have questions anymore.

• 1:19:45Speaker 01

  And I don't really go in with a high, with a, with a, with a framework anymore. I just try to feel the music, retain how it makes me feel, and just get to that, as much of that feeling as I can in the conversation. And so, everyone is surprising. And everyone catches me off guard with their observations, because I'm not going in with any prior observations or any kind of premeditated framework.

• 1:20:12Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:12Speaker 01

  I'm not coming in going, I think I know what you're like.

• 1:20:15Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:15Speaker 01

  And I will say that the one only time I've ever had a proper, like long form conversation with Justin Bieber changed, that's what changed it for me. Because I thought I was gonna get a great conversation focused on an album that served the purpose that the label and the management and the artist wanted it to serve, and served the purpose that Apple Music wanted it to serve, and I would get something out of it too. And that conversation became something very different, very quickly. And I realized that he wasn't interested really in selling anything either on that day. And that was the moment that I learned how to listen. And stopped trying to control the narrative and gave myself the the space to go with it and not panic.

• 1:20:59Jay Shetty?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  It's just a moment. It's just people.

• 1:21:03Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  Stay present, listen, observe and try and figure it out. So from that point forward, everybody that I've spoken to really, I get there with everyone in some way, shape or form.

• 1:21:13Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, yeah, that's.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  If that makes sense.

• 1:21:15Jay Shetty?

  Makes so much sense. Makes beyond sense. I love it.

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  I every every time I'd have a conversation with anyone before that, I would come in with so many different metrics of, you know, questions and orders and this and that and expectations and whatnot. And, you know, if you ever get a chance to sit, if you haven't already, opposite Neil Young, you cannot go into it with that. He has no interest. It's like, this is all that matters. And if you think you're going to be able to sort of carve out some shape with him, then he's just gonna be like, look, man, like, it's not what I'm here for. I'm not interested in it.

• 1:21:51Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:51Speaker 01

  So I really like this.

• 1:21:53Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:54Speaker 01

  I like this.

• 1:21:55Jay Shetty?

  Yeah, I love that. Thank you for saying that.

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  I don't know what to do with the old method anymore. I used to have one. I just don't know what to do with it.

• 1:22:02Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:03Speaker 01

  And even now and then I find myself falling, I find myself falling into it.

• 1:22:05Jay Shetty?

  Of course.

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  Cause I'm worried. And I can't stick to it. Everything you need to know is in the answer, right? Every question you need.

• 1:22:13Jay Shetty?

  You have a structure when you're untrained and then when you're trained, it's spontaneous. It's like a.

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  I just wasn't listening, Jay.

• 1:22:20Jay Shetty?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:20Speaker 01

  I was just going in and trying to figure it all out before it even happened.

• 1:22:23Jay Shetty?

  Got it.

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  Which is very in line with who I was and who I've been through my whole life.

• 1:22:26Jay Shetty?

  People are trained too, I think, sometimes, right?

• 1:22:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm just terrified. I'm a very anxious person. I got to know the, you know, my therapist always says, you know, anxiety is based on not knowing the outcome, right? You're scared of what the outcome's gonna be. And so, you know, I need to prepare for every outcome. And at the end of the day, what I really need to do is just start and listen and it will be what it will be.

• 1:22:46Jay Shetty?

  Zane, this has been such a special, honest, open conversation. I've loved every bit of it and

• 1:22:50Speaker 01

  Same.

• 1:22:51Jay Shetty?

  We end every On Purpose interview with a fast five. So these are questions we do ask everyone.

• 1:22:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:22:56Jay Shetty?

  And every question has to be answered with one word to one sentence maximum.

• 1:22:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:23:00Jay Shetty?

  So it's short answers. So Zane Low, these are your fast five. The first question.

• 1:23:04Speaker 01

  Do they change every time?

• 1:23:05Jay Shetty?

  No.

• 1:23:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:23:05Jay Shetty?

  They stay, they, four out of five stay exactly the same.

• 1:23:09Speaker 01

  Okay, hit me.

• 1:23:09Jay Shetty?

  Okay. So the first question, which we've asked everyone who's ever been on the show is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:23:16Speaker 01

  Uh, be yourself because everyone else is taken.

• 1:23:19Jay Shetty?

  Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

• 1:23:22Speaker 01

  Eat that, it's not that hot.

• 1:23:25Jay Shetty?

  All right, question number.

• 1:23:26Speaker 01

  Hot ones at me. Seriously, hot ones call me. My kids won't ever respect me until I'm on that show.

• 1:23:34Jay Shetty?

  I love that. Question number three, what is the one thing that if you'd want your children to remember every day, what would it be?

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  You are loved and you can love.

• 1:23:50Jay Shetty?

  Love that. Question number four, what's something you're trying to unlearn right now?

• 1:23:54Speaker 01

  That I don't have to wash my hands every time I touch a surface and I don't have to check the taps. I'm always trying to unlearn my OCD compulsions.

• 1:24:06Jay Shetty?

  How does that affect life? What is that?

• 1:24:08Speaker 01

  It's because it's been my life for so long that I think the most frustrating thing is I'm just, I'm used to it. That's what frustrates me the most. If I ever stop and take a step back and realize and actually try to have a step back for myself and realize what I'm doing and what it must look like. Not that I'm ashamed of it or that I worry about what other people think of it, just for my own sense of awareness. I get very frustrated and really try to tell myself like,

• 1:24:36Speaker 01

  if you don't do this routine, the world is not going to end. And I have varying degrees of success.

• 1:24:42Jay Shetty?

  And that's hard.

• 1:24:43Speaker 01

  But I'm always trying to unlearn it.

• 1:24:45Jay Shetty?

  Fifth and final question that we ask every guest on the show. If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

• 1:24:52Speaker 01

  That we would allow ourselves the privilege of listening to each other before we act. That we would do our best to understand there are many points of view and that that level of understanding and ultimately that knowledge would allow us to come together to fix things.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  And not keep breaking things.

• 1:25:10Jay Shetty?

  So needed. Zane Lowe, everyone. If you've been listening or watching, wherever you are, whether you're walking your dog, whether you're cooking, driving, whether you're at home, whether you're at work, wherever you are, thank you so much for listening and tuning in. I hope that you'll tag me and Zane with the things that you love, the things you're going to talk about this week because of this podcast, the things you're going to share with your friends and your family that resonated strongly with you. Please tag us both on Twitter, on Instagram, on TikTok, on any platform you use, sharing your favorite clips. I love seeing what connects with you all. And I hope this conversation is connected with you all as it has with me. So, thank you for listening. And Zane, thank you for your generous time and energy and presence. And I'm really grateful that we got to listen and connect with each other today. So, thank you so much.

• 1:25:51Speaker 01

  Same, Jay. Thank you.

• 1:25:52Jay Shetty?

  Thank you. If you loved this episode, you will enjoy my conversation with Meghan Trainor on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from the inside out.

• 1:26:02Speaker 04

  My therapist told me, stand in the mirror naked for five minutes. It was already tough for me to love my body, but after the C-section scarf with all the stretch marks, now I'm looking at myself like I've been hacked. But day three, when I did it, I was like, you know what? Her thighs are cute.

• 1:26:18Jay Shetty?

  Okay, this is something that I've been waiting for, and you are absolutely going to love it. My wife, Radhi's book, Joyful, is launching on February 27th. I am so excited for her first book ever to be in your hands and be in your home and fill it with joy. So, go to J O Y F U L L book.com to preorder now for an exclusive video and a daily wellness guide made by Radhi herself. Again, that's J O Y F U L L book.com, joyfulbook.com. Check it out. Preorder it right now. Get your free video and wellness guide. You're gonna love it.

• 1:27:02Speaker 06

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• 1:27:31Speaker 03

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• 1:27:48Speaker 02

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  I'm not the first then.

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• 1:28:12Speaker 03

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