111: Being At War.. In Life. How To Become The Ambush. With Jody Mitic.

0:00:00 - Opening 0:10:34 - Jody Mitic. Dark times and how he got there. 0:33:43 - Jocko's (Limited) Experience with Drinking and Drugs 0:44:10 - The Military. A Crazy Life. 1:52:16 - Support: JockoStore http://www.jockostore.com stuff, Super Krill Oil and Joint Warfare and Discipline Pre-Mission http://originmaine.com/origin-labs/jocko/, THE MUSTER 005 in DC http://www.extremeownership.com/washington-dc-005. Origin Brand Apparel and Jocko Gi http://www.originmaine.com, withJocko White Tea http://www.jockotea.com, Onnit Fitness stuff, http://www.onnit.com/jocko and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes) https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/psychological-warfare/id1183222322. Extreme Ownership (book) http://amzn.to/2jonHTx, The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, http://amzn.to/2szgaEj and Jocko Soap. https://irishoaksranch.com/storefront/jocko-soap 2:17:37 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 111 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Good evening.

• 0:11Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 0:13Jocko Willink?

  Almost two years ago.

• 0:16Jocko Willink?

  I had a guy on the podcast by the name of Jody Middick. And we ended up talking for so long that we actually turned one podcast into two podcasts. The first one was a review of his book, which had just come out. It was called Unflinching, The Making of a Canadian Sniper. And then we did a second podcast right after that. That was just us talking and discussing some more of the details of where had his life had gone since that book had come out. And those podcasts are number 24 and number 25. And if you haven't listened to those yet, just stop here, go back and listen to them first.

• 1:02Jocko Willink?

  And in those podcasts, we discussed Jody's early life and how he ended up in the military and his sniper training and his two deployments to Afghanistan and the events of January 11th, 2007, when during an operation, he hit a landmine and lost both of his legs below the knee.

• 1:29Jocko Willink?

  And from there,

• 1:32Jocko Willink?

  he struggled to stay alive. But he did, and he made it back to Canada, where he then struggled to recover from his injuries and then he struggled to adapt to his new life. And along the way, he struggled to overcome addiction to pain medications that had been given to him so freely.

• 1:54Jocko Willink?

  But he did

• 1:57Jocko Willink?

  overcome those struggles and made a new life and wrote a book and got elected as a member of the city council of the city of Ottawa.

• 2:08Jocko Willink?

  And he continued to raise his young girls and take care of them. And by all accounts, we're talking about a model citizen. In fact, I'd go so far as to say a model human being.

• 2:25Jocko Willink?

  But

• 2:28Jocko Willink?

  things aren't always as they appear.

• 2:32Jocko Willink?

  And although Jody looked to be doing great by any measure behind that public persona.

• 2:41Jocko Willink?

  The struggle continued.

• 2:45Jocko Willink?

  And I saw a glimpse of it when Jody came down to be on the podcast. I first noticed it when I made reservations for Jody at a hotel by my house. And I just got a nice little hotel nearby me so I could pick him up easy and didn't think much of it. I gave him the hotel information and then a couple of days later he called me up and said he needed to transfer to a different hotel because the hotel that I had made reservations at didn't have handicap accessible rooms.

• 3:18Jocko Willink?

  And of course I felt like a like a jerk.

• 3:22Jocko Willink?

  But at the same time, I didn't really understand because I'd seen all these video clips of Jody walking around and and actually running around and he'd gotten second place in this TV show called The Amazing Race where he's doing all these different challenges and I saw pictures of him and videos of him running and driving cars and and even riding motorcycles, driving motorcycles.

• 3:49Jocko Willink?

  So clearly there was something that I didn't understand that was going on and maybe he wasn't as mobile as I thought he was. And when I went to pick him up at the airport, I wasn't really sure what to expect. I didn't know if he was going to be in a wheelchair. I didn't know if he was going to need help getting around. And as I drove through the pickup area looking for him, he wasn't hard to spot. He was standing at the curb, big beasts over six feet tall and he walked over the car with confidence. When we're really zero indication that he was walking on two prosthetic legs. And, you know, so we recorded the podcast after afternoon and it took forever. It was like five hours or six hours and then we got done with that and we went and grabbed steak.

• 4:34Jocko Willink?

  And the next day, you know, he said, hey, can you give me a tour of San Diego? Can you show me, you know, some of the sites around here? And so we did that. And I took him down to the Bud's compound where the SEAL training is. And then I took him to the SEAL teams and we went to the USS Midway, the Aircraft Carrier Museum. And we were walking all over that. And, and then he wanted to go down to the beach town where I live in. So we, we walked around there and it was awesome. And he was enjoying it being down from the cold frozen tundra of Canada. And as we got towards the end of the day, you know, Jody started walking a little bit slower. And, and I noticed on his face, he had a look of discomfort, right? That he was, you could see he was trying not to really reveal it, but it was there.

• 5:19Jocko Willink?

  And then finally he said, you know, can we, can we sit down for a minute? These things start to hurt after a while. And he's pointing down at his legs and I said, of course, yeah, no problem, man. So we sat down for a little while and he recovered a little bit and then we got up and we walked a little bit more. And then he said, hey, man, can we sit down again? And I said, yeah, man, of course. So then we sat down for a little while and, and then when he got up again, he said, hey, can we just head back to your house? And, and maybe sit or sit around there for a little while? These things are, they're starting to hurt pretty good right now. You know, the, the skin wears off. And it starts to bleed and you know, it's, doesn't feel good, man. And I said, yeah, brother, no problem. So we headed back to my house and, and we went up on the deck and we sat there and

• 6:03Jocko Willink?

  just kind of hung out, talked and and it became clear to me something I did know from my other friends that have been wounded badly, that it's a lot harder than it looks. It isn't the bionic man.

• 6:26Jocko Willink?

  And it's hard to adapt. The intermingling of human flesh with mechanical parts is not a natural thing. It's not a smooth thing. It's a battle.

• 6:39Jocko Willink?

  And it's a battle that's hard for us to perceive from the outside, but it's a battle that takes place every minute of every day, usually behind the scenes.

• 6:52Jocko Willink?

  Privately.

• 6:55Jocko Willink?

  Because

• 6:58Jocko Willink?

  as soldiers, as Marines, these men learn to suffer and bear their burdens silently.

• 7:09Jocko Willink?

  And without complaints. And it was here at my house that Jody explained to me why he needed a handicapped accessible room. He said, yeah, you know, man, I get home and I gotta take my legs off. And then I gotta crawl to the bathroom to use the toilet and I gotta crawl to get in the shower and I need those little handles to pull myself up.

• 7:31Jocko Willink?

  It's a struggle.

• 7:35Jocko Willink?

  And

• 7:37Jocko Willink?

  Jody suffered and struggled again, not outwardly, not in public.

• 7:45Jocko Willink?

  But alone.

• 7:48Jocko Willink?

  He pressed on and we kept in touch over the last couple of years, you know, text messages and what's going on and did you see this and I sent you that. And I watched as Jody continued on his journey of his life and it's awesome to watch and he got back to Canada and he started a podcast and he continued with his political career and he wrote another bestselling book called Everyday Heroes. And, you know, from a distance, everything appeared to be going great.

• 8:22Jocko Willink?

  But again,

• 8:25Jocko Willink?

  things aren't always what they seem.

• 8:28Jocko Willink?

  And behind all that, Jody was struggling.

• 8:36Jocko Willink?

  And a couple of months ago, I got a text, a simple text

• 8:44Jocko Willink?

  from Jody and it read, "Bro,

• 8:50Jocko Willink?

  the enemy outflanked me."

• 8:55Jocko Willink?

  Now, in military terms,

• 9:00Jocko Willink?

  that's about as bad as it gets. It means the enemy has attacked your weakness. It means the enemy has the upper hand. It means you have lost momentum in the battle.

• 9:12Jocko Willink?

  And it means you could very likely be overrun. And being overrun means that you're gonna get killed.

• 9:22Jocko Willink?

  And I could see from that text that Jody was at war again, not on the battlefield, but in his life.

• 9:35Jocko Willink?

  But Jody's a soldier.

• 9:38Jocko Willink?

  And Jody fought back because that's what soldiers do.

• 9:45Jocko Willink?

  And a little while later, he sent another text that read, "I'm finally turning into the ambush and starting to fight through."

• 9:55Jocko Willink?

  He attacked the problems.

• 10:01Jocko Willink?

  He's back on track again, back on the path.

• 10:07Jocko Willink?

  And came down to visit me.

• 10:11Jocko Willink?

  And after talking to him a little bit and discussing what he's been through, I asked him if he would come on and talk about it. So, other people, not just veterans, but everyone that struggles, all of us, can learn from what he's been through and what he's overcome.

• 10:35Jocko Willink?

  So here we are, once again.

• 10:39Jocko Willink?

  And with that, Jody.

• 10:42Jody Mitic?

  Jocko.

• 10:43Jocko Willink?

  Welcome back to the podcast.

• 10:45Jody Mitic?

  Wow, you had me, uh, you had me all getting the feels there for a minute. Thank you.

• 10:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, man, it's, um...

• 10:52Jody Mitic?

  Thank you for that.

• 10:53Jocko Willink?

  You were talking to me last night about, about the texts.

• 10:59Jocko Willink?

  That you had sent me.

• 11:00Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 11:01Jocko Willink?

  And you said, you know, there were some, there were some heavy texts I sent you and, and I was like, really?

• 11:08Jocko Willink?

  And you said, yeah. And I go, did I pick up on it? And you were like, yeah.

• 11:12Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I thought you did.

• 11:13Jocko Willink?

  Well, no, when I read through them, I clearly did.

• 11:15Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 11:16Jocko Willink?

  And just through the responses and the conversation we were having, but that, that first text that you sent me,

• 11:24Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 11:24Jocko Willink?

  I was like, damn. And, and then I, of course, I went and went back on your social media, looked at what you've been going through. You dropped off social media.

• 11:34Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 11:34Jocko Willink?

  And so you had basically reached out and said, you know, hey, brother, needs a little air support over on this side. And so what happened from, I mean, just you leave here from, from the last podcast, two years ago, you go back to Canada.

• 11:51Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 11:51Jocko Willink?

  You start your podcast. That was going great.

• 11:53Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 11:53Jocko Willink?

  Great podcast.

• 11:54Jody Mitic?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:55Jocko Willink?

  Uh, got a, you know, a lot of people were listening to it, getting a lot of feedback from people. A lot of people hitting me like, yeah, Jody's podcast is great. So you're doing that. You're working on the other book that just came. When did that book come out?

• 12:06Jody Mitic?

  October, last October.

• 12:08Jocko Willink?

  Last October.

• 12:09Jody Mitic?

  Hit the Shells, best seller, running.

• 12:10Jocko Willink?

  Boom.

• 12:11Jody Mitic?

  Yeah. So I was already, I was already, hadn't done a podcast since May. Um, actually, uh, last podcast I did was with some guys from Cansoft, uh, that started their own, uh, company, Taku Beaver. That was like supposed to springboard us into the next podcast. We had some other guys coming in, some other Cansoft entrepreneurs. And we were starting to like kind of shift to supporting veterans and their business opportunity. Cause it seems like we're all becoming entrepreneurs or the guys that will employ our friends and things like that. And that's what I want to focus on is how do we help the troops after they go through what I went through? Cause I had zero plan. Nobody had really dealt with this stuff in Canada since Korea, really.

• 12:53Jody Mitic?

  We had some guys in Bosnia and that, but the, the chain of command and the, and the government frankly lied about the fact that Canadian forces were in combat, uh, in, in the, in the former Yugoslavia. That all aside, the point is, we were, we were trying to lead by, I was trying to lead by example. Luke, my, my echo, uh, Luke was, uh, was trying to help out and he was doing his best. And he was seeing the wheels fall off the Jody Middick machine. And he kept trying to like, put them back on and gun tape them and, um, just do his best though, but cause him and I, it's not like we're like close buds. Like, we're not like besties since we were kids or anything. So he's trying to keep his distance and keep that.

• 13:34Jody Mitic?

  Like, Jody Middick podcast is Jody Middicks and I'm, I'm Luke. I could tell too, and I kept telling my friends that, you know, that were close as well. Like, I can tell he really wants to help, but he's not sure. And then one day, um. So I had a, kind of a perfect storm. So I moved out of my house in October last, October 16th. And, you know, I'll just get that out of the way. That was the beginning, really, of things going south. And it's not cause, uh, my ex and I are enemies by any stretch. We're still friends. We have two amazing kids. We had amazing life. It's just sometimes, uh, you know, sometimes these units don't mesh, right? And that's just kinda the way it went.

• 14:18Jody Mitic?

  You know, we both have different visions of our future and, and things like that. So. But then you kinda gotta put on the, the face for the public, you know, um. And so I stopped going to the gym at that time. I stopped seeing my therapist just cause he's on the other end of town and I can't be bothered right now. I got too many other things to do. Um, and even when I was here, like you said, you saw, I forgot about that walk. And you're right. I remember sitting on the wall at. Yeah, on the sea wall. Is it, is it Ocean Beach? OB, yup. And I, I love like the Americana, that's what we call it in Canada. Americana history is amazing to me. And the California beach.

• 14:58Jody Mitic?

  Each beach has its own history and the, in the group. I love, and you're talking about it. I'm looking around at all these buildings built in the 40s, 50s, 60s. And I'm, and in my mind, I drove Route 66 to get here. Like, I love the history of this, of this country so much. And then I was on Route 66 until I saw the Pony Express Trail is to your left. And I went, okay, turned left. And I would follow the Pony Express Trail down into Arizona. Um, but even then, uh, like you said, like the pain was really hitting me and I'm terrified of the pills because of becoming addicted. And so, okay, what do you do for pain if you're not taking pills? And I'm not a weed guy, like I know I talk about it and everything, but I don't know anything about it.

• 15:42Jody Mitic?

  But I know a lot about Crown Royal and Jack Daniels and, uh, and Captain Morgan and I are good buddies. And, uh, so I found, I went from having a beer after work or in my case, uh, I like cider, I know I get made fun of for it, but booze is booze, boys, you know what I'm saying? Um, oh, I can't wait to have that cider after work or that, that, uh, rum and coke, uh, when I get to the, get to the pub with the, with the guys.

• 16:10Jocko Willink?

  And the guys now, the guys that you're talking about now are your fellow people that you're working with in the government?

• 16:15Jody Mitic?

  A lot of them are politicians, but also just some of the boys that, cause Ottawa is like the biggest military posting in Canada.

• 16:22Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay.

• 16:23Jody Mitic?

  But also all the cans offer in that area.

• 16:25Jocko Willink?

  Got it.

• 16:26Jody Mitic?

  So I got, you know, buddies that are coming back from deployment in Iraq, uh, on and off and they come in, they're home for a month, they're gone for three, home for three, gone for a month. So whenever you get a, you hear from them, you run out and of course, they just got back from the sandbox, so they want to have a beer or two. And you know, and I'm like, okay, because it might like, I'm going, going, going. I get up at six, put on my suit, go to work, uh, come home and I'm in pain the whole time. And from the pain you saw to October 2016 and then come spring 2017 now, it's just, it's reached points where I wouldn't, but I was thinking about drinking before work.

• 17:09Jody Mitic?

  And it's not because I'm like stressed out and I was stressed out, but it's more like, oh man, like my, cause I, you, there is a deadening of the, of the pain.

• 17:18Jocko Willink?

  For sure.

• 17:19Jody Mitic?

  And it's like, well, Uber ride is only 12 bucks to get to work and this and that, or my staff drives right by my place to go, so I could have her pick me up. And that discipline kept me from doing that for a while. And then I had a trip to Oregon to go shooting at the Leopold Shooting Academy they opened there. That was great. But before I left, I think I took my legs off for a solid three to four weeks. And I was in my wheelchair. And that kinda sucked cuz my car isn't set up to drive. You know, my place I got, which is like a block from the house, so it's not that far from the kids and the ex and everything. So you know, I'm seeing them a lot anyway and stuff, but

• 18:02Jody Mitic?

  nothing else in my life is set up to live without legs, even like where I keep my coffee in the kitchen is for when I'm on my legs. So I'm in my, I'm in my wheelchair the first day and I'm like, I don't really make coffee when I'm in my wheelchair, do I? Oh, tongs, right? So I get tongs out of the cupboard. Reach off. I can do this, whatever, adapt. And it's like, okay, time to go to work. Oh, shoot. And then I did call my staff and she picked me up or I took an Uber. But then I went to Oregon and that was a week. Like it was about seven, eight, nine, nine days on my legs straight.

• 18:38Jody Mitic?

  Excruciating pain the whole time. Whatever was happening, the doctor, I finally went back and she said that like my skin had reached a point where it couldn't regenerate fast enough. So it was just breaking down. And then the way I like to wear my legs was being rejected by the body. So I like to wear with like it's called a suction. A suction hold. So it's like a vacuum. Until you release it with a, with a valve. And my body was like, well, we're done with this. But I'm like, ah, no. Me no like leg, leg sleeve, leg sleeve takeaway mobility, me no want. And so my, you know, that if you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough.

• 19:14Jocko Willink?

  You gotta be tough.

• 19:15Jody Mitic?

  Yeah. And you know, and, and, and, and I didn't have, and I'm not living with, with a medic anymore. Right? So she's not there to be like, hey, stupid. Put yourself, like, take the legs off and, and let someone take care of you. My mom actually moved to Ottawa December 16, and I'm completely ignoring her advice, because you know what, mom, mom's always gonna try and look after you, but, "Come on, mom, I'm 40 years old, Jesus." Um, and I was pushing away against a lot of the same, same things I would then, in the same day, would tell people like, "Hey, man, you gotta let people look after you." You know, because I get texts, I'm probably same as you, right? I get texts, BBMs, I get DMs on Instagram and, and Twitter and Facebook on my fan page and the, and then the podcast page.

• 20:01Jody Mitic?

  Uh, "Hey, what's going on? Like, I need help with this." And I'd be like, "Don't be afraid to go get help. Don't be afraid to reach out. Those around you love you. Let them look after." And I'm completely ignoring any of this advice myself. Because I'm like, I kicked OxyContin when I was 22, I think, and on deployment. I stopped smoking just because I wanted to. Uh, I drink on the weekend. I don't need to drink, but meanwhile, I'm sitting there checking these messages while having a drink.

• 20:28Jody Mitic?

  I know. And I look back and I'm like, "I'm so stupid." But I guess sometimes you gotta go through, there's a reason why you go back to basics.

• 20:34Jocko Willink?

  Is there, is there like, in your mind, when you're going through that, are you thinking to yourself, "I could stop if I wanted to, I just don't want to."

• 20:41Jody Mitic?

  Yeah. I don't, it's not getting in the way of anything. I'm still functional. I'm still at work. I'm still doing, to me, my main job was what I was elected to do. Right? And I have a four-year, in my mind, it's a, it's a, it's kind of like being in the army where you're on four-year, four-year commitments.

• 20:57Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 20:57Jody Mitic?

  So I'm like, "Well, right now I have a four-year commitment." I'm not drinking at work. I mean, at some point I did start drinking at work, but in politics and business, as you know, like, sometimes after lunch, instead of going back to the office, you have a beer. And you're still working.

• 21:13Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:13Jody Mitic?

  You're still talking about issues, you're still getting, like, I used to get a lot of advice from, I shouldn't say "used to," I, I get a lot of advice from the other more experienced politicians, because that's what you do. And we all would have a beer or a cider, and then they'd go back to the office, and I'd stay and keep on the phone, and, "Yeah, I'll have one more." You know, and then another group of guys would come in from like, "Oh, hey, uh, you're still here?" Like, you know, so-and-so's already back at City Hall.

• 21:44Jocko Willink?

  What kind of, what kind of drunk are you?

• 21:48Jody Mitic?

  Happy. I'm a happy-go-lucky. I get a little loud, but it's not like, I'm like, hey, what's going on?

• 21:57Jody Mitic?

  But, you know, anyway, well, I know what you're asking.

• 22:00Jocko Willink?

  No, no, no, I'm actually just asking, like, you could, you could still call on the phone and be like, hey, buddy, blah, blah. You know, some people, when they drink, they get angry. Some people, when they drink, they slur their speech really bad.

• 22:11Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 22:12Jocko Willink?

  So you got all these different types of, you know, drinkers. When I drink, I basically just like, am more of.

• 22:19Jody Mitic?

  Jocko.

• 22:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 22:19Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 22:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 22:20Jody Mitic?

  I'm more Jody. Yeah, for the most part. I do slur, but even I could, I'd be like, ah, I've slurred my words today. Okay, well, hey. I'll, I'll drink some water for a minute and then I'll get it back, or I'll have a coffee. Um, and I'm good. I'm no, I'm normally, and even when I'm like, I rarely get fall over drunk, right? If ever, but just let me rewind. I know it's a long answer to a short question, but so May, I get back from Oregon and I'm just like dying. And then I had to go real quick down to Albany because of part of my job with the city is I'm the sports commissioner. And I'm desperately trying to get the CrossFit Games to bring the Eastern Regional Games to Ottawa. Because I just think that'd be awesome to have in Ottawa. We, you know, we got the UFC in Ottawa.

• 23:05Jody Mitic?

  I was a part of that. So I was really proud. And I said, when I got the job, I said, I want to do two things in the four years. Get the UFC and get the CrossFit Games. So I'm still trying to do the CrossFit Games. I got less than a year to do it, but I think we can do it. But anyway, that's.

• 23:16Jocko Willink?

  There's a lot of people that, uh, participate in CrossFit that listen to this podcast. Maybe they can start a little movement.

• 23:22Jody Mitic?

  I've met a lot of them. And you know what? The CrossFit guys are crafty. And Albany city itself, they don't want to lose the CrossFit Games. So they knew I was in town and they started to sweeten in the deal, if you know what I mean. And the CrossFit Games go, well, Ottawa's offering us this. Albany, what you got? Hey, it's business. I get it. But you know what? I'm coming back. Um, I got back from that trip. That was about a four-day trip from Ottawa to Albany and back. And when I was here with you guys, I didn't bring a wheelchair. Because that's what I meant by I crawl around, which is why I could stay at your house, but I don't want your kids seeing a grown man crawl to the bathroom. And it's not because I'm above crawling. It's just, it's one of those personal things. In my own space, I'm not above it. And around like loved ones, okay.

• 24:08Jody Mitic?

  So that's why you want your own space and even and stuff like that. So even when I visit my dad, I get a hotel room, you know, my dad loves me and I'm not, but it's also my space or if I want to crawl around naked, I can, right? And so anyway, that's why that. So then I get back and I'm, I take the legs off and I just, I can't put them back on. I look, I would like, I don't know if I said it on your show last time, but I have mornings where I look at my prosthetics and I'm like, oh, fuck. Sorry. Sorry for swearing. I know we're allowed, but I'm trying to be a little bit better of a man, Echo. You know what I mean? You know what I mean, Echo? I don't want you having to edit out things that I say. Okay. So great. Um, I took them off and I just looked, I just threw them across the room. I said, I can't

• 24:53Jody Mitic?

  deal. I have a wound in my left stump. Did I show it to you? No. It's been there since April of 14.

• 25:04Jody Mitic?

  And it happened, I remember the second it happened, my brother and I were doing an amazing race thing post-show in Alberta. And we did a little like, you know, go, hey, Jody and Corey from Amazing Race, woo, we got a few bucks for it. We gave a speech to, uh, some kind of convention. And then I was walking down the airport to the plane and I felt something go on my foot. It's, and it's like having a hotspot when you're on a ruck march or whatever, except I can't really shift what part of my foot I'm walking on. I just can't. And it went from a little tiny like break in the skin to something the size, in Canada, we have tunis, it's $2. I know you guys still use the dollar bill. 50 cent piece.

• 25:46Jody Mitic?

  Like a 50 cent piece. And then back now it's down to like a pin prick of scab. But that's, what are we talking now? We're, uh, almost four years, right? And I had to mitigate that the whole time. And it was painful and I got a couple, I got two infections in the four years from it.

• 26:04Jody Mitic?

  But that's where I was like, that's it. I need to let myself heal. I need to like, let my body regenerate, except now from that, and it took me until fall.

• 26:19Jody Mitic?

  Late fall to realize that when I did that, I might as well have stepped on another landmine. And I went through, it took me to late fall to go, cause I was like, cause that's when things really went south.

• 26:31Jocko Willink?

  Cause you basically, not even basically, because you lost your legs again.

• 26:35Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I lost my legs again, except.

• 26:38Jocko Willink?

  Because truly, when you were down here, even though you were in pain, bro, we were doing, you know, we were walking up and downstairs, we were, we were doing whatever.

• 26:45Jody Mitic?

  We walked all over that aircraft carrier.

• 26:46Jocko Willink?

  Over that aircraft carrier up and downstairs, we walked all over the SEAL compound, we walked, you know, we.

• 26:51Jody Mitic?

  I loved it. I went out on the beach, when we walked out on the beach where you guys torture the, the recruits.

• 26:56Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 26:57Jody Mitic?

  In every step, I was like, because you gotta dig through the sand.

• 27:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 27:01Jody Mitic?

  But to me, that's hollowed ground, bro. Like, when you took me to the grinder, I remember standing there like, this is the grinder, like, I'm a Canadian, I'm Canadian Army and, but there's some things where you go, you just, you feel, right? If I brought you up to the recruit spot and for basic in the Canadian Army, you'd be, you'd feel, you get that feeling, like, this is where soldiers are born.

• 27:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's it. I was gonna say, there's been a lot of, those little, they have the little fins on the grinder. So what, what Jody's talking about is where they train SEALs.

• 27:29Jody Mitic?

  That first day in the, in the movies, right?

• 27:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's, and they have little fins, so like little dive fins, there's little, for, you know, the Marine Corps, they have boots.

• 27:39Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:40Jocko Willink?

  In the Army, they have boots, painted on the ground, they paint them on the ground. Well, in the, at the grinder at Bud's, they have little swim fins. Two little tiny swim fins are painted, there's you know, a couple hundred of them, and that's, when you get out there for PT, you stand on your little set of swim fins.

• 27:53Jody Mitic?

  And then as the days go by, there's less and less of you, right? And then, and I've read, I've read, if I've read less than 24 Navy SEAL books from, from the beginning to today, right, yours included, I'd be surprised. I've read, I've read the, the old LERPs, right, I've read about those guys, I've read about the original Rangers, I've read about the Canadian, um, uh, American Special Service Force. Actually, when I was with Rob, my buddy from the Green Berets down in Yuma, I was wearing a Ranger Up t-shirt, that's like a Special Service Force tribute. You know, to me, like, that's our history, that's the history of, of, of SOF in Canada and the US, and, and, and then, you know, and Bud's and the Green Beret, or Navy SEALs and the Green Berets were kinda created by Kennedy at the same, blah, see, look at me, I'm a fucking nerd when it comes to this stuff.

• 28:39Jody Mitic?

  So to me.

• 28:40Jocko Willink?

  You know, the, uh. I haven't been there, but I've heard about it because a lot of my friends have been there. The Aussies, they have a parade ground like in the middle of their compound. Have you been there?

• 28:51Jody Mitic?

  No, I've never been to Australia.

• 28:53Jocko Willink?

  They're the, the only time they use this parade ground apparently is at memorial services for their men.

• 28:59Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I believe that.

• 29:01Jocko Willink?

  No one walks on it. It's just in the middle of their compound. No one walks on it.

• 29:05Jody Mitic?

  Well, in Canada, we have a similar thing where if you're on the parade square and it's not parade, like you're going on extra duty. Like if the sergeant major catches you on his parade square, A, you better be, have a brew in your hand, or you better be on parade. And if you're not, like, cause it's, cause it's usually like, oh, if I go from here to there, it's right across the parade square, but it's the short route.

• 29:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 29:26Jody Mitic?

  And it's like one of those tests, right? They're the new guys. In the hallways of most units, the, the unit emblem is in the floor. And, and there's one of those sergeants that just has nothing better to do but to stand there and watch and see who steps on the, and even if you're like family of one of the troops, what are you doing on my, on my hat badge? And you get the knife hand. It's awesome. But when I was here, I wasn't gonna not go see the grinder because my fucking legs hurt. Don't be a pussy. And I, I'll be honest, that first night after you dropped me off, I had a couple of drinks. To ease, to ease the day. Like when we left your porch and you dropped me back at the, at the hotel.

• 30:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 30:05Jody Mitic?

  I, I went and I had a few drinks at the hotel bar, you know, and I, and I, I was actually toying with talking to you about this stuff back then because it was bugging me then. And I'm like, okay, what do I do? Who do I talk to? Jocko's the kind of guy, Echo is the kind of energy you want to be around and like, you know, and that's one of this, part of this, this trip. For the last 10 days I've been on is to kind of like refining. So a lot of my Canadian and American friends that have kept me on, on the straight and narrow. Or as much as you can did for Jody Middick and um. Oh, bro, it's a constant wrestling match, right? The little evil and the good angel, except a lot of times they high five each other. Okay, let's see what happens. And, um, and yeah, man, so when the legs came off, so no car.

• 30:50Jody Mitic?

  So now my mommy, Uber, or my staff, or my ex are driving me around. All happy to do it, all not like holding it against me, but at the same time, man, I, I'm out of sandwich meat. Hmm. Okay, now I need to go to the store. Hey mommy, can, can you drive my car and take me to the store? And, and then that's, I kind of turned my hat backwards and kind of like, you know, tried to like, you know, cowboy up and, and do it. But I took me again till, man, my daughter turned nine, September 19th. I think it was her, I missed a lot of her birthday for being hung over. And she was at this awesome trampoline place and I'm in a wheelchair.

• 31:35Jody Mitic?

  And I remember getting there and being like, all I want to do right now is jump on trampolines with my, with my little girl. And I can't, A, and B, I'm an hour and a half late for her party. Uh, because I decided to have too many drinks last night. And that was when I was like, what the fuck is really wrong with me? Cause I couldn't really get it. And then.

• 31:56Jocko Willink?

  What is, what is the escalation? Right? So you were down here with me.

• 32:00Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 32:01Jocko Willink?

  You know, we worked hard, we, cause it's, it is, you know, doing a podcast, like when, when, when we do, sit there and talk to each other about intense stuff for five hours.

• 32:09Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 32:10Jocko Willink?

  Then we went and ate, we stayed up late, we get up early the next day, we go do all the stuff that we did.

• 32:14Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 32:14Jocko Willink?

  And you get done, you have a couple of drinks, right? Wh- what does that escalation look like over time? Where, where you're like, you know what? You're not even saying like, oh, I don't know if I should have drinks. You're like, hey, as soon as Jocko gets in his car, I'm getting some drinks right now. Is it something that you recognized? Is it something that you just, you just said to yourself, you know what? This is gonna make me feel better right now and I gotta go, gotta.

• 32:37Jody Mitic?

  I don't remember exactly what month I was here. Do you? Like.

• 32:40Jocko Willink?

  I, I don't remember.

• 32:41Jody Mitic?

  No. I know it was a warm month in, in Canada, like it was cool, but it was spring or fall.

• 32:48Jocko Willink?

  Well, we started in December. It was twenty-four podcasts in. That's how many weeks?

• 32:52Jody Mitic?

  December of what?

• 32:53Jocko Willink?

  Two thousand fifteen.

• 32:55Jody Mitic?

  So it must have been spring for fif- uh sixteen?

• 32:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 32:58Jody Mitic?

  Spring sixteen. So, I- cause I remember in Canada, it wasn't cold, but like we were wearing, still wearing down vests with hoodies and stuff. Uh, when I was doing my quick podcast before I left. So at that time, I was, it was just the pain was just kinda like, a couple of drinks before bed, right? But even that was bugging me. And that's what I mean, like when I was, but then, like, if, if, if it had been this spring, where we'd met? Yeah, I would have been like, like this the whole time. And like, as soon as Jocko's gone, I might have just like last night when we had dinner, I might have just been like, fuck it, I'm having drinks.

• 33:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 33:32Jody Mitic?

  I don't care if Jocko's here. Because being around someone like you, like, and I used to be the guy who could, I don't need to drink. I'd go months and be like, oh yeah. I haven't had a drink. Like, you know, I'll have a drink. And, and you don't drink and you haven't drank since you were like in your twenties, I think you said.

• 33:48Jocko Willink?

  No, no, no. I haven't drank since I retired.

• 33:51Jody Mitic?

  Oh, okay.

• 33:51Jocko Willink?

  The last time I felt the effects of alcohol, which I felt quite strongly, was the, the, basically the day I retired.

• 33:57Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 33:57Jocko Willink?

  And the day I retired, which was October first, two thousand and ten, you know, of course, me and the boys, we went out, we had a bunch of drinks. I woke up in the morning, cause I still wake up early, and I woke up in the morning and I was like, well, yeah, that's done. Because I got other stuff I gotta do now. And basically, when I no longer had, we'll call them friends to drink with.

• 34:19Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 34:20Jocko Willink?

  Then I was like, yeah, well, I'm done with that. And I just, ever since then, just haven't really, you know? I've had, and, and another thing is, sometimes people think I'm like offended if they have drinks or whatever, and I'm, I'm not, you know? I remember actually I went, I was on, the first podcast I was on was Tim Ferriss's.

• 34:36Jody Mitic?

  Yep.

• 34:37Jocko Willink?

  And we got done with the podcast and he, you know, we went out to grab some food, cause I was staying the night at his house. And we went out and we got some food, we got some steak, and he's like, do you mind if I have a glass of wine with this? And I was like, bro, I don't care.

• 34:51Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, you're not like a reformed alcoholic or anything. Yeah, yeah. You just decided one day, you're like my dad. One day he was like, eh, this gets in the way of work.

• 34:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's kinda, that's kinda my attitude. It doesn't really- Yeah, I mean, if I want to drink something that tastes good, then I'll drink a chocolate milk, which I love the taste of.

• 35:07Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 35:07Jocko Willink?

  I'll have a Jocka White too, right? I mean, that stuff makes me feel good.

• 35:10Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 35:11Jocko Willink?

  And I just, um, yeah, and people ask me about a lot of, and I need, it's something that I need to address on the podcast. Cause the other thing is just, I might as well delve into this a little bit right at this moment, but when I was a kid, I was into hardcore music.

• 35:22Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 35:22Jocko Willink?

  I was into, and, and the type of music that I listened to was against drinking and against.

• 35:29Jody Mitic?

  It was?

• 35:30Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 35:30Jody Mitic?

  Punk, the, the, if you talk about.

• 35:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, we're talking straight edge, we're talking minor threat, we're, yeah.

• 35:36Jody Mitic?

  Really?

• 35:36Jocko Willink?

  Yes, absolutely. And so it was almost, and I was, again, I was never really, I'm very,

• 35:44Jocko Willink?

  I'm very, I'm not a real good follower. So anytime there's some kind of a movement going on, I'm always like saying, wait, why is this movement going on? Why, I'm, I always question, I don't just jump in, I'm hard to get on board with something like that. So it was around, I wasn't like, so there's a, there's a thing with straight edge. Okay. So this, this thing was called straight edge. It started in, I'd say you'd, the, the epicenter of it was in Washington DC. The first band really to coin the term was Minor Threat, which is a punk band, a hardcore punk band.

• 36:17Jody Mitic?

  I've heard of them. I assumed they were partiers.

• 36:20Jocko Willink?

  No, not at all.

• 36:20Jody Mitic?

  Just by the name.

• 36:21Jocko Willink?

  No. And so one of the things that, one of the symbols of straight edge was, uh, you know, when you go to a bar or when kids used to go to bars for a show, for a, for a music show, if they were too young to drink, once, when the bouncer looked at their ID card, they'd put a big X on their hands. And so the straight edge symbol was they'd put the X's on their hands, meaning, look, I don't drink. And it's actually funny because I took my, two of my kids to see the White Buffalo the other night in San Diego and it was awesome. And, but when they came, when they showed their IDs, they got the X's on their hands. And I was like, oh yeah, it all.

• 36:58Jody Mitic?

  It's both hands?

• 36:59Jocko Willink?

  So, so what the straight edge kids would do is they would draw big X's on their hands, meaning, hey, look, I'm not drinking. So there was that, and then that of course morphed into like a gang. And there was, you know, by the time I was a, you know, middle teenager, there was hardcore gangs that would assault people that drank and.

• 37:20Jocko Willink?

  Would get crazy.

• 37:20Jody Mitic?

  You should get those guys together with the juggalos.

• 37:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so it just, so, so, so when I was a kid, I was, again, I wasn't like a full on, I wasn't drawing X, I don't think I, no, I never like had X's on my hands.

• 37:32Jody Mitic?

  You just weren't drinking.

• 37:33Jocko Willink?

  But I, but I understood philosophically what was being said, which was, look, I wanna win, right? I'm hardcore. I wanna be stronger. I wanna be aware. I wanna be alert and drinking and doing drugs doesn't give me any of those things. So.

• 37:50Jody Mitic?

  Even at that, so sorry, but even at that age, you understood the fuel that goes into the machine affects the performance?

• 37:56Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 37:57Jody Mitic?

  See, I didn't get that as a young man, but.

• 37:58Jocko Willink?

  Yes, so here I am, and, and it was, you know, I was in discipline and, you know, I had a band.

• 38:05Jody Mitic?

  Before the seals.

• 38:06Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, I had a band, a hardcore band. The name of my hardcore band was Rage of Discipline. That was the name of my hardcore band. That was af- that's what, that's what Bronson's Children, because my first band when I was like thirteen was called Bronson's Children. But then as I got older and I got more hardcore, then it became Rage of Discipline. There was also about nine other bands.

• 38:25Jody Mitic?

  What's Bronson's Children?

• 38:26Jocko Willink?

  Bronson's Children was Charles Bronson.

• 38:28Jody Mitic?

  He didn't drink?

• 38:30Jocko Willink?

  I don't even know. No.

• 38:31Jody Mitic?

  You just, you just, that's a dope name.

• 38:33Jocko Willink?

  We do know Charles Bronson was a badass. And when I was a kid, I thought Charles Bronson was the man because he was.

• 38:37Jody Mitic?

  He's the baddest man on the planet.

• 38:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, he was, you know, a, a, a tail gunner in a, you know, bomber in World War Two, and he grew up in the mines.

• 38:46Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 38:46Jocko Willink?

  When he was a kid, when he was ten years old or eleven years old, he was working in the mines.

• 38:50Jody Mitic?

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:50Jocko Willink?

  And until he was old enough, he used to have to wear a dress because he didn't have, his parents didn't have money to buy him clothes. He had to wear one of his sister's dresses down in the mines.

• 38:59Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 38:59Jocko Willink?

  So then he went to World War Two and then he became, and you know, he's, he's just had great movies. He always played this stoic character that was unemotional. And so I was, you know, hey, when I grow up, I'm gonna be Charles Bronson, of course. So then we had a band. It was called Bronson Children. Well, as we got more hardcore, eventually that name morphed into Rage of Discipline, of which Elgin James was the guitarist, who's another buddy of mine that Echo has met, who will come on the podcast at some point and tell his crazy life story, which I'm a big part of in the beginning until I joined the military.

• 39:29Jody Mitic?

  We get to hear the, the pre-military Jocko stories. Yeah, yeah.

• 39:34Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 39:34Jody Mitic?

  I'll be tuning into that one.

• 39:35Jocko Willink?

  Long story. Then I joined the military.

• 39:38Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 39:39Jocko Willink?

  So when I joined the military, what do I want to be? I want to be, I want to be a SEAL. I want to be a frogman. I want to be the best frogman I can be. I show up at a SEAL team. Guess what frogmen do? Frogmen drink. Okay, cool. I didn't know that. Now that I know that, give me a, give me a shot of Jägermeister because I'm ready to rock and roll. And that was sort of how you proved yourself and that's what we did. And I was immature and dumb and, and despite everything I just said about like, hey, I'm a little bit, I'm hesitant to really follow. Well, now I'm in the SEAL teams. This is my dream job and this is what I want to do.

• 40:10Jody Mitic?

  And if you don't buy in, you're not in.

• 40:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and it's like, it's not, I don't even know if it's, it's just like, that's the way it is.

• 40:16Jody Mitic?

  That's, yeah. My first drink, I was 17, right after I finished basic training. I show up at the regiment and they're like, alright, what are you drinking? And I'm like, because my family's full alcoholics on both sides. And it's nothing, it's nothing against them, like, you know, grandpa was, my other grandpa was, and grandpa's grandpa was, and you know, one of my uncle, nothing, okay, they might hear this, but we all know what you do, okay, right? So not a big deal, but, um, and dad, but dad was one of those guys, he was like, well, that just doesn't affect me. And me personally, like you as a kid, I'm like, I don't really see the interest. Like, what, I gotta throw up on myself and whatever, whatever? And I was one of those kids that Say No To Drugs actually worked on, you know, like, uh, now I'm older, I'm like, man, I should have been smoking weed since I was like 12 and shit, but, um,

• 41:00Jody Mitic?

  I still don't, but I did, I just, like, you see the effects on people, like, when I was a bouncer, I'm like, yeah, the, like, the guys who smoked weed were really mellow.

• 41:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 41:07Jody Mitic?

  And the guys that did coke and drank, like, they were the ones who were the problem. But, um, when I get to the regiment, the first night of parade is done and they're like, okay, what are you drinking? And I'm like, well, I'm 17, they're like, this is an army mess, like, it's okay, just don't worry, we're all gonna keep an eye, like, it's not, like, I'm not trying to tell the world, like, hey, underage people drink, but hey, underage people drink, but it's an environment full of people that are there to look out for each other anyway. So I had a couple of drinks and I'm like, okay, this is the way it is. And same thing.

• 41:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 41:35Jody Mitic?

  Work, Monday to Friday, you work your ass off. You, you go hard as you can, like, you go hard in the paint, right? You, your, your tires are, are stripped at the end of the day. Friday rolls around, okay, we don't see it 8 a.m. Monday morning, boys, and, uh, you know, if you're gonna drink, don't drive, but if you do, drink driver. That's what you got told when you, when you're dismissed for the weekend, right?

• 41:58Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 41:59Jody Mitic?

  And so basically have fun, blow off the steam, don't hurt anybody, uh, and take care of each other is basically what you're told.

• 42:06Jocko Willink?

  So the SEAL Teams definitely is a culture. It was even more when I first got in because now you're talking about the old Vietnam guys and there wasn't a war going on and it was just hey, what are you gonna do? There's no war going on and you're you're a frogman. What are you gonna do? Well, we drank and and I'm not I'm gonna look down on it. I mean, we had a great time. It was fun bonded. We, you know, it was it was fun. It was what you know, it was what we did. And I'm not even trying to say anything negative about it. But that's what it was. And unfortunately, there's a lot of guys. I shouldn't even say a lot. There's a decent number of guys that don't do well with alcohol, man. And it ruins their lives. It ruins their careers. And that sucks.

• 42:46Jocko Willink?

  It sucks to see. I never really had any issues. I drank when I drank and never interfered with my work in any time in any way. And, you know, that was it. It wasn't a huge deal. And I mean, of course, when I mean, when I'm talking, when I was 19, 20, 21, 22, I mean, we drank a lot. We drank a lot.

• 43:05Jody Mitic?

  It's weird how your body lets you at that age.

• 43:06Jocko Willink?

  We drank a lot.

• 43:07Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah. And you got up the next morning and did PT.

• 43:10Jocko Willink?

  We got up the next morning and did PT like it was nothing. We and that's what we did. But then, like I said, and even now, you know, when I when I go out and hang out with some of my old buddies, or actually, it's more not when I just whenever I go and hang out with some of my old buddies, you know, we probably don't even, you know, maybe have a beer. But when I go out and see the young guys, the young guys are getting after it. I don't look down on them at all. I think, you know, they're getting after it.

• 43:35Jody Mitic?

  I've found I've found when I hung out with my buddies that are still serving, you're not in the gig anymore. You're not doing the job. So you're a little out of shape. Your your drills are a little rusty, maybe, or whatever. I find when I'm around guys my age that are still operational, I can't keep up with them drinking or anything because it's part of the training. It's part of the culture. I've fallen off. And even like before I was in, I didn't really drink. And then when I got out, I stopped drinking as much, you know, and it's not like, again, guys, we're not Jocko and I aren't saying the military, we're all functional alcoholics. What we're saying It's just what we do. And you know, and remember the job that that we volunteer to do, we we volunteer to run into gunfire.

• 44:18Jody Mitic?

  Uh, you know, for our countries and for fun, like, let's face it, a lot of us think it's fun. I thought it was the best time of my life. But you still got to blow off that steam and booze is really good at lubricating the, the, you know, the, the, the machinery of blowing off steam. So when I, when I started drinking for pain, though.

• 44:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 44:38Jody Mitic?

  Is where I realized, cause even the pills, bro, like, let's go back to my pills. I didn't know I was addicted to the pills until I watched, uh, Intervention. And Billy was addicted to OxyContin and I was like, I said this on the show last time. OxyContin, that sounds familiar. And I pick up the pill bottle that's next to me and I go, oh, I'm on OxyContin. And then they say, the doses he takes are this, and I'm like, I'm on three times the dose he's on. And I'm like, that's when I went, I can get addicted to pills? I get, it was so foreign to my brain that doctors, doctor, me, me and pain, doctor go, here, soldier, take this. And I go, okay, and I take it, no more pain, go fight more.

• 45:16Jocko Willink?

  You know, that's, that's going back to the alcohol thing.

• 45:20Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 45:20Jocko Willink?

  Is, is one more thing for me, I, I was just about to say this. Was I said, hey, look, when, back in the day, before the war started, there was like nothing else, like.

• 45:30Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, there's nothing better to do.

• 45:31Jocko Willink?

  You're just gonna get drunk. Now, the younger guys, they're smarter than we were. And.

• 45:38Jody Mitic?

  They, they have a reason to be.

• 45:39Jocko Willink?

  They have a reason to be there and they have a reason not to drink. They're like, hey, bro, I'm gonna go fight a war, you know, like, I want to be in shape, I want to be better, I want to be faster. I don't want to get in a fight, I don't want to get a DUI. So they're smarter than they are and that part of the culture is slowly changing. And I think it's good.

• 45:57Jody Mitic?

  I think it's awesome.

• 45:57Jocko Willink?

  I think it's awesome and I, I hope it continues. Again, I think it's, it got overemphasized. When I first came in, it was overemphasized in the nineties, it was like.

• 46:07Jody Mitic?

  But it was a way, because we weren't fighting anyone else.

• 46:09Jocko Willink?

  Exactly.

• 46:10Jody Mitic?

  So you drink to be a man and then you fight each other and if another platoon shows up, you fight those fucking guys. If another squad shows up or another company, all right, band together, I know we were just fighting, but we'll get back to that. But there's a, there's an armored regiment over there, we're gonna go fuck those guys up.

• 46:24Jocko Willink?

  There's, there's something that I've been thinking about on this subject, which is. In the military, right?

• 46:30Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 46:30Jocko Willink?

  And even in life as a human, you want to prove that you're ready to sacrifice yourself for the cause. I'm, I'm willing to make the sacrifice. Well, in a bizarre and kind of unfortunate way, proving to Jody that you know what? Watch this, Jody. I'm gonna drink 16 shots of fire water.

• 46:50Jody Mitic?

  No, you're not.

• 46:50Jocko Willink?

  Yes, I'll do it because I don't care.

• 46:52Jody Mitic?

  You don't have the parts, bitch.

• 46:53Jocko Willink?

  And there we go. Oh, then I prove.

• 46:55Jody Mitic?

  Line up 18. Line up 18. Army versus Navy. Let's go.

• 46:58Jocko Willink?

  That's how it happens.

• 47:00Jody Mitic?

  Fucking way it goes. Echo, Echo, you played football. Yeah. Yeah, you were talking about that earlier about, uh, or on the show I was listening to where taking a shit with no stalls. And you're saying, yeah, in football, we'd rip the doors off the stall. And that's how, oh, yeah, I don't care. Watch me shit.

• 47:14Jocko Willink?

  What's, what's more apt to happen now? What's more apt to happen now is a guy to be like, hey, I can clean and jerk, you know, 285. What can you get?

• 47:24Jody Mitic?

  Oh, yeah.

• 47:24Jocko Willink?

  And, and so the guys are, they're focused on something that's better now.

• 47:28Jody Mitic?

  Fitness, yeah. Except they're blowing out shoulders and we'll talk about that later, but, but so, but I get what you're saying because in the Canadian forces, we hadn't had a war since Korea.

• 47:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 47:39Jody Mitic?

  And we had the, what combat we had as I was coming in was being downplayed. We had guys take, we had a guy, uh, and this is history, this is proven. He took an RPG round through his chest, like just killed him, obviously, and everything. But his family was told he was killed in a rollover. Cause our government was like, they're supposed to be peacekeeping.

• 47:58Jocko Willink?

  Where was it?

• 47:58Jody Mitic?

  In, in the former Yugoslavia. I know a guy who took a sniper round through the chest as a tank commander. He was told, shut the fuck up, take your pension and your benefits, got full benefits. Like it didn't, they didn't downplay what you've got if you're wounded. They just said, don't you dare tell anybody. We had a, we had a unit come home after like fighting some of the most intense combat in Europe since World War II, when the Croats were trying to go through a Serb area and ethnically cleansed. And this is in the nineties when the Canadian like rep for peacekeeping really got, which was known since Egypt, but came back because our units and the French Foreign Legion units were the only units that were like, fuck you, we're not moving. If you're gonna ethnically cleanse through here, you're going through us. Whereas all the other UN units ran away.

• 48:43Jody Mitic?

  And they were in four or five days of like intense combat, bunch of wounded, no killed thankfully, but. The government and the and the and the chain of command were like, shut your fucking mouths, go home like nothing happened.

• 48:54Jocko Willink?

  That's real?

• 48:55Jody Mitic?

  That's real, bro. Uh, Google Madac Pocket, Canadian Forces, and you'll read all about these dudes who just like, basically were like hanging out drinking coffee, smoking butts and telling war stories that that never happened to being in a war and going, holy shit. A buddy of mine, um, he's gonna get mad at me. He put out a book called Shadow Keeper or Ghost Keepers. I'll I'll get the name, sorry, and I'll and I'll. And he was the first Canadian unit, him and his unit were the first Canadian units into Bosnia. And the shit they saw and the things they went through, and it's a great book, by the way, Ghost Keepers.

• 49:31Jocko Willink?

  Why would he be mad at you for talking about it?

• 49:32Jody Mitic?

  No, no, forgetting the name wrong.

• 49:34Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay.

• 49:34Jody Mitic?

  Sorry about that. Um, but the point is that at that time, he was told like, you don't tell, we don't, we don't brag, is what the line that was told. But really, the government back home was like, we didn't know this was gonna happen. Well, you don't peace keep without busting heads. Like, there's a reason. If you, if I want to go kill that guy and you're in my way, um, guess what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna try and go through you, right? Like, they, they, this concept of peacekeeping, you know, was like, you know, like the guy with the billy club. Ah, okay, everybody keep it down here. See? Like, that's kind of what the politicians thought.

• 50:07Jocko Willink?

  That works for college kids sometimes.

• 50:09Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, but even then, every now and then you smack one over the head with that billy club, like, and I think, and I remember my first tour in Kosovo even, we trained for a crowd control. We trained for a whole lot of things, but then the final training exercise is when we all went, oh, because the Russians rolled in and took over the airport in Kosovo. I don't know if you remember that.

• 50:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 50:32Jody Mitic?

  And we did a live training exercise, uh, a joint, um, uh, armored, a full combat team exercise, like, main battle tanks firing and it like, I'd never, my, my dick was rock hard. I remember we got 500 rounds on each other. We're just like, bullets flying everywhere and like, uh, like, the range control safety was like minimal, right? Because they're like trying to simulate real combat. And and then we got, but anyway, the point is that when you don't have anything to point your soldiers at, they turn on each other. And that's what we were getting at earlier.

• 51:08Jody Mitic?

  But to round out the whole like what soldiers bored soldiers are a danger echo. I think if you've been around a group of active Navy SEALs, I think, or maybe even Army guys like.

• 51:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 51:18Jody Mitic?

  If they got nothing else to fight, they'll just fight each other.

• 51:20Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 51:20Jody Mitic?

  Like dude.

• 51:21Jocko Willink?

  We used to, we used to whenever we were waiting for a plane to go on a trip like this for my youngest. Like it would start off with, okay, let's see who can hit that pole over there with a rock.

• 51:31Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 51:31Jocko Willink?

  Right. And then all of a sudden it's like, okay, let's see who can hit the light with the rock. And then all of a sudden it's, hey, let's see who can hit. That car tire with a rock and pretty soon you're.

• 51:43Jody Mitic?

  Whose car is it?

• 51:43Jocko Willink?

  Whoever, just a bunch of idiots, right? And pretty soon you're even having, you're having a rock fight. Right. Which is, which is not smart because you're hucking rocks the size of baseballs at each other or whatever.

• 51:54Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 51:54Jocko Willink?

  And yeah.

• 51:55Jody Mitic?

  But I think what we were talking about was now that the newer guys see how we did it, but they have an enemy though.

• 52:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 52:02Jody Mitic?

  Like they have a, we have a perpetual enemy that is not going away. And so I see the guys that are in my unit now, they come in and they're like, okay, what supplements are going to keep me at my best?

• 52:13Jocko Willink?

  Exactly.

• 52:13Jody Mitic?

  Like they read my book, they go, okay, so Jody, you'd stop drinking coffee. How many days before you deployed? I'd be like, well, at least five days. So it's out of my system. Cause when I'm out there getting after the enemy. I don't want to be having a caffeine crash, but if I need it, I want that piece. Did you ever get that wake up gum?

• 52:28Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 52:29Jody Mitic?

  In your rats?

• 52:29Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 52:30Jody Mitic?

  It's like four cups of coffee in one.

• 52:32Jocko Willink?

  Damn.

• 52:32Jody Mitic?

  Or two cups of coffee. And like, when you need it, like I would keep that in my pocket. Till the very end, like the Hilo might be coming to pick us up. And if I didn't take it, I was happy, but sometimes.

• 52:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 52:43Jody Mitic?

  You take that in the middle of a mission and you're like, okay, I got two more days in me, right? But the point is like, they have something to aim themselves at, whereas at the beginning we didn't, but even then. Booze wasn't a big deal to me. It was just what we did. Like you said. Fast forward to this fall that would just pass and I realized I'm crashing. I felt like a B-52.

• 53:03Jocko Willink?

  You were saying you saw something. Oh, you see, cause I kind of cut you off. You were talking about seeing the program where they show addicted people. What's that program called?

• 53:10Jody Mitic?

  Intervention.

• 53:11Jocko Willink?

  You were watching Intervention.

• 53:12Jody Mitic?

  When I first got wounded in oh seven and that's when I realized I was addicted to the pills, but not addicted. Like. I need a pill. It was like, my body would just start reacting and I would be like, oh, I'm itchy for some reason. And then that's when I started easing off and I never took a pill after Father's Day, 2011. Uh, but even that, you read the book.

• 53:31Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:31Jody Mitic?

  I ended up buying pills from a guy in an alley once and I went, what the fuck is it like? And the system is treating me like an asshole because I want more pills? And then they're like, yeah, if you want more pills, you gotta come to the hospital every day to get your dose. I'm like, I'm not a fucking junkie, doc. I just don't, the dose you're giving me isn't enough to keep me from feeling like shit and like, and then I'm mitigating my stress with the pills. So maybe, okay, so go to more therapy. And that's when I started rebuilding in 2011. So come the fall, I'm still not on my legs. I, I-

• 54:01Jocko Willink?

  So this is, wait, this is 2011?

• 54:03Jody Mitic?

  2011 is when I quit the pills.

• 54:05Jocko Willink?

  Got it.

• 54:05Jody Mitic?

  And that's why I thought booze wouldn't be a problem. Cigarettes aren't a problem, booze isn't a problem.

• 54:09Jocko Willink?

  You'd quit booze. I mean, you'd quit pills.

• 54:11Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, whatever. It was like a whatever.

• 54:14Jocko Willink?

  When the time comes for you to quit booze, you'll just quit. That's what you were thinking.

• 54:16Jody Mitic?

  When I'm ready, I'll be done with it.

• 54:18Jocko Willink?

  Got it.

• 54:18Jody Mitic?

  And, but what I, what, what happened and, and if you're a politician, the most important thing, federal, uh, state, uh, municipal, so in Canada, state would be provincial budget. Money. Money is the big thing that everybody worries about in private life and everything else. So-

• 54:36Jocko Willink?

  So wait, what, when are we talking about right now?

• 54:38Jody Mitic?

  Sorry.

• 54:38Jocko Willink?

  You're already back, you're back.

• 54:39Jody Mitic?

  I know, I'm bouncing around a little bit. I'm just saying in my mind, 2017 wasn't that big a deal as far as the drinking because I'd kicked all these other habits and I, whether it's real or not, I had an army psychologist once tell me I had an anti-addictive personality. Because I guess like you, like to me, it's like, okay, well, what's gonna help me function better? What's gonna get me to the next day without too many issues? And if I wanna have a few drinks, I'm gonna have a few drinks and I can, cause tomorrow morning, I don't have to be anywhere till 9 a.m. anyway. So whatever, if I'm a little hungover when I get there, I'll have a coffee and a glass of water. Or Gatorade and an Advil. Not a big deal.

• 55:20Jody Mitic?

  Fast forward to, again, my daughter's birthday last fall. Oh, daddy can't be there yet because I'm still hungover, right? I got my car, and I was when I realized I'm going through, I was like, I've felt this before. Because I kept asking myself, what the, why do I keep screwing everything up? And then the budgets process started, that's where I was going with this. And that's where I remembered, I'm not, because you're, Jocko, you're not a private citizen anymore. You know that, right? What do you mean? Well, if you fell off Instagram tomorrow, there's a million people out there, probably like, well, where the fuck is Jocko? And I was posting less, I was being less upbeat in what I did post.

• 56:02Jody Mitic?

  The few last couple podcasts, even going back to the spring, on one of them, we got loaded. And we said it was for fun, but I like, I needed a drink myself. And I'm starting to miss budget. And budget is money, that's what everything runs on. The city of Ottawa has a three and a half billion dollar budget. Why isn't councillor Minnick at the budget meeting for the Community Protective Services Committee? Community Protective Services Committee? Oh, he's not feeling well, his legs are bugging him, stuff like, whatever my staff said. I'm telling, they're asking me, what's going on, boss? And I'm like, yeah, I just, I need you to buy me some time. But that's when the media and the voter goes, no, no, no, no, no, no.

• 56:45Jody Mitic?

  We get it, you like to write books and you like to do podcasts, you like to shoot guns and you, you know, you're a dude and we, and we accept you as who you are, but our four-year commitment, the biggest part of that commitment is making sure the money is spent properly and on the things that we want it spent on. And we elected you to be that voice. Why aren't you at that meeting? And personal private matters can only get you so far during like, the most important part of, of your job, right? Well, either go on medical leave or be at the meeting, is basically what I was told, right? Get a doctor's note or be here. And that's when I ended up doing that radio interview in December, when it really came to a head.

• 57:27Jody Mitic?

  And when I had to really admit to myself, like, I'm border, I think I was, in my mind, I was borderline alcoholic, I guess.

• 57:37Jody Mitic?

  But I was, I was just not able to deal with that failure in myself.

• 57:44Jocko Willink?

  How much, how much were you drinking?

• 57:46Jody Mitic?

  At the peak, it was a forty ounce of whatever I get my hands on. Sometimes it was like two, remember one time it was two twenty-six ounce bottles of rye. Crown Royal was my brand of choice and if that wasn't around, again, Jack Daniels.

• 58:02Jocko Willink?

  And you're drinking, you're getting done with work and that's it?

• 58:05Jody Mitic?

  No, at this point, I'm just waking up in the morning and drinking.

• 58:07Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay.

• 58:08Jody Mitic?

  Not even going to work. Like I was just, I knew in the morning I couldn't go and then you feel like shit because you drank all day. So what do you do? You go for the hair of the dog and that just turns into a perpetual circle. And then the wounds I was talking about earlier, they're not healing because my body's full of alcohol. And a friend of mine said, you know what? My dad used to have that problem because he drank too much too. And he would like cut his hand working on like woodwork in the shed. And it would be there for like six, eight, nine months and then he'd sober up for a couple of months and then it would go away. But then he'd fall back and I went, your dad, the maniac you've told me stories about? And she was like, yeah. And I'm like, okay, so this is really becoming a problem. So now I'm dealing with the internal struggle of I'm a complete failure of a human being.

• 58:53Jody Mitic?

  I've failed my kids, I failed the voters, I failed like friends of mine like Jocko and Echo who, you know, we expect certain things from each other, right? Or we think we do. And you could, you could have a terrible day and I would never judge you for it, but you don't know that until it happens, right? And even if you know that, you still don't want to admit it. Never mind to Jocko or Echo, how about to yourself, right? And again, I'd stopped meditating, I'd stopped going to my therapist, I'd stopped going to the gym, I'd stopped podcasting, I'd stopped writing, really, even though, and then during the book tour in October, and I know I'm rewinding a little bit, but I, the last thing I want to do is go on the book tour.

• 59:34Jody Mitic?

  But the book is coming out and that's a commitment that I signed and, you know, you're dealing with all this and I, and I did the tour in my wheelchair and everybody's like, oh, you're doing so much better because you're okay with being in the wheelchair. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool. Close the hotel room door and like open a drink, right? Have a drink.

• 59:51Jody Mitic?

  So, December was the worst month of my life. Getting blown up was easy, in my opinion, dealing with this shit. But what I didn't do in 2007 was actually deal with the fact that I was blown up, frankly. I was so like, yeah, recover, be useful to the regiment, be useful to the queen, get better for the country. Um, put prosthetic legs on, life is normal-ish. And then now I'm like, okay, first of all, now dude, you're 40. Uh, second of all, you, you have kids that are now like, we're the, like, I would see them and they'd be like, "We miss you, like, where have you been? Like, why aren't you around more? And like, you don't live far away, like, what's your excuse?

• 1:00:36Jody Mitic?

  Cause, oh, cause I'm ashamed of you seeing me all dealing with the next day of being drunk and stuff, you know? And like, and it really, it really, it really became, I understand now. I've, I've always been sympathetic to addicts since my OxyContin days, but now I get how depression can really make you into

• 1:01:01Jody Mitic?

  someone not worth saving in your own mind. And I get, I get it. And I've, I've never dis, uh, I've never thought hatefully or anything of friends that have committed suicide or have gone down that path of depression, that you just, if you're not in it, you don't get it. And you go, man, why can't you just like read a book or listen to some comedy or not drink today? Like, have, I'll sit with you and have a water and you just don't get it? And I was doing a lot of this on my self-isolation too, because you don't want anyone seeing you like this. And then the few people that do hang around are often in the same.

• 1:01:43Jody Mitic?

  In one of the levels of of fuck up of life fuck up. And so.

• 1:01:49Jocko Willink?

  You know, I've talked about this before where and it sounds like you're describing exactly. I talk about how like people get into a place where they're basically in a storm, right? There there's a storm all around their head. And no matter which direction they look, they just see clouds and thunder and rain and horror, right? And everybody that's outside that storm looks at them and they go, well, yeah, you're in a storm. Just come over here and you'll be out of the storm. Just move over here and you'll be out of the storm.

• 1:02:13Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:13Jocko Willink?

  Just put down the drink or, you know, start working out again or whatever. You just move over here and you'll be out of the storm. But but that person can't see, they can't see the direction.

• 1:02:22Jody Mitic?

  Not just that.

• 1:02:22Jocko Willink?

  Everything around them is a storm.

• 1:02:24Jody Mitic?

  They don't understand how me coming over there is like climbing a mountain. And not to give anyone shit, but maybe a little bit of shit if you know who you are. Hey, man, uh, wanna watch UFC tonight at my place? Yeah, cool, except, hey, bro, I'm in a wheelchair. I can't even get in your front door. Can you come to my place where I can get around and take a piss without getting out a water bottle? And, you know, like, being embarrassed in front of your wife? Yeah, but you live all the way over there, like, we've already got plans and shit like. Well, cool, what about next weekend? Eh, that kinda that didn't help as well, cuz people like they don't like. Even coming here, you're like, oh, I'll just buddy carry you up the stairs.

• 1:03:06Jody Mitic?

  And I'm like, yeah, I trust you, but at the same time, like, some of my friends offering to carry me into their house. They're like 140 pounds, like soaking wet, never been lifted a weight in their life. And nothing against them, but it's like, you want me to trust my physical safety? Or you could just come to my place.

• 1:03:21Jocko Willink?

  Hmm.

• 1:03:22Jody Mitic?

  Like, like, and they don't get it and I don't, I'm not mad at anyone about it. It's like, it's like that saying, like, I don't hate them about it, but at the same time, it's kinda like. All right, cool, man, I'll just, uh, watch the fight and we can text and I'll be at my place alone again. Right? Like, cuz I didn't, even my dog isn't at the place where I'm at right now, right? So that all thing just kinda fell into a big blender. And in December, um.

• 1:03:46Jocko Willink?

  How long did that? So did this, when you got back in your wheelchair?

• 1:03:51Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:52Jocko Willink?

  You gave up the leg.

• 1:03:52Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, that's, this is me. This is me.

• 1:03:54Jocko Willink?

  So in May, when you, like I said, you went on that long trip, you went to Albany, you come back from that. Now you're, now you're like, I'm done with my prosthetics, they're freaking killing me.

• 1:04:03Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:04Jocko Willink?

  And I'm getting in a wheelchair, back in the wheelchair, is that sort of like, now you're just, now you're just gaining momentum going downhill?

• 1:04:12Jody Mitic?

  I, yeah, well, but that's a crazy thing, is I thought I'm starting to climb up. Because I'm like, finally admitting, I can't wear my prosthetics, because I would like, walk into council, which is the big, like, every two weeks you do the big meeting, and that's where all, like, all, everything you went to the bar and drank about, and then went to the office and like, argued behind the scenes with each other, now you sit down and you go, all those in favor, aye, all those against, you know, nay. And then it's passed, oh, a resolution passes, and now it's a legal to eat ice cream on Bank Street on Sundays. Which is a bylaw in Ottawa that I'm gonna actually try and get changed, by the way, from like, eighteen hundreds. But the point is, that's the big show. Like, if all the other training, right, like, that's the live fire exerciser, that's the actual op, right? So that's what you work for.

• 1:04:58Jody Mitic?

  So when I started missing those, at the end of the year, when we're pat, like, the budget is the thing that, if without budget, you have, you guys just had a government shutdown over budget.

• 1:05:06Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 1:05:06Jody Mitic?

  That's what you're trying to avoid. And that's when the media, who, you know, are doing their job, but Jody Middick in a headline gets clicks, and now Jody Middick, the guy everybody loves, oh, he's fucking up. What's going on here? One guy even made a video called No Show Middick. Because I'd missed like, four or five meetings. But the meetings I'd missed were the ones, like, you could miss every other meeting throughout the year, and nobody would give a fucking fuck of a rolling donut. Which is a saying out of a book, a series of books I love, but, but I missed these three meetings? Oh no, oh no, man, like, these are the meetings we really voted for you to be at. Were you at No Show Middick?

• 1:05:47Jody Mitic?

  And this guy is trying to make a name for himself as a political commentator, whatever, he's an asshole, but the point is...

• 1:05:54Jody Mitic?

  Say that shit to my face. The point is, he's right, though. Where is no show midic? And now, because that's what I was in my head already. Right? And then I'm like, okay, so I thought if I said personal family matters or personal health matters, they get it, they know me, they know I've dealing with stuff along the way. But they're like, yeah, we get it, man, but if you don't tell us what's going on, then we're gonna assume you're just fucking being lazy. Because why shouldn't we? And I went, okay. And a reporter buddy of mine, and I sent you a couple texts, that's when I, and I, when you said that earlier, my skin went, like, you know, got the goosebumps because I forgot I sent that. And I was starting to think, like, okay, I gotta go back to basics, I gotta remember

• 1:06:39Jody Mitic?

  who I am and what I was and my own advice. And that's when I went, oh, yeah, I got too comfortable in my pity. And the enemy now is on my left flank, and I have zero defenses on the left flank. And, what do you, instead of fighting a shitty, losing rear guard, you turn and you face the fucking, you face the battle. So I turned, and a reporter friend of mine, and for the record, reporters are not really friends, they're those friends that you kind of keep at arms length and you're always ready to punch, but you never know, right? You're not really punch, but, I'm not threatening anyone with violence, you PC world weirdos, but, he called me on a personal note, and he said, hey, man, here's what's being said

• 1:07:22Jody Mitic?

  in the media world about you, and this is what could be going to headline if you don't say anything soon. And I went, okay, well, some of that's true, some of that's made up, but that's what you do when you don't know. And I said, all right, can I come on your show? And he's like, well, that's what I was just about to ask you, if you want, come on my show, and that's Evan. And we, and then we went and we talked about it, and he was very kind to me, he's rough, he's a tough dude, he's a tough reporter, but at the same time, very fair. And he hit me with a few hits, and I hit him back, but what I did was I got it all out of my system, because basically, you feel like you're holding, never mind, I'm keeping a secret from Jocko and Echo.

• 1:08:07Jody Mitic?

  I'm keeping a secret from 40,000 residents who trust me to be their counselor. Then there's all the fans of Jody Middick that are out there and all the supporters, who are all amazing and who all are willing to support you through the best and the worst of times, but they can't support you without anything that they like. To them, I just stopped podcasting for no reason and I've stopped being positive on social media. So what like what like you just decide is this the real Jody now? Is that who like were you faking it before? Like that's some of the messages I got like, oh, obviously you figured out that you can still make money and be be the asshole you actually are. And I was like, oh shit, like Jesus, maybe I am that asshole.

• 1:08:47Jody Mitic?

  But when I did my buddy's show, a huge weight went off my shoulders. I shouldn't say buddy, but you know, but the point is that that was the beginning of me turning into the into the fight instead of running. And I had a couple setbacks.

• 1:09:03Jocko Willink?

  So so hold on, so this show that you did.

• 1:09:06Jody Mitic?

  And you you said you listened.

• 1:09:07Jocko Willink?

  I did listen to it, but um, the the the premise of the show was what you did, for lack of a better word, is you took ownership of everything that was going on.

• 1:09:16Jody Mitic?

  I even laughed, I was laughing right before I went online, I went on to the show. I said, I'm doing a jock when I'm taking extreme ownership.

• 1:09:23Jocko Willink?

  Extreme ownership.

• 1:09:24Jody Mitic?

  I'm gonna own this.

• 1:09:25Jocko Willink?

  So you went on there and you said.

• 1:09:27Jody Mitic?

  Cried like a baby, by the way, anyone who thinks I'm a tough guy.

• 1:09:30Jocko Willink?

  I've been drinking too much.

• 1:09:32Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:33Jocko Willink?

  What did you like, what were the facts? What were the things that you took ownership of? Was that that was the major thing, right?

• 1:09:38Jody Mitic?

  Well, the booze caused a lot of the lack of energy, lack of attended attendance went down because it's one thing to be buzzed, it's another thing to be completely hung over and fucked up and show up for a meeting like you, you know yourself, I know myself. And I know like if I go in there like this right now, people will be like, he is completely fucked, right? And I know I'm swearing a lot and I apologize, but.

• 1:10:08Jody Mitic?

  You avoid that and then so I said, okay, guys, well, here's why I missed this meeting and here's why I missed that meeting because I've turned to an old friend Crown Royal instead of my, my therapist and my doctors and my friends and my family and my supporters and all the things that made me able to cope from 2007 to 2017. So for basically a decade, I forgot about and I left behind like, nevermind, I was nevermind the gym, like stopped the gym, stopped talking to my therapist, stopped talking to my kids, stopped talking to my ex, stopped talking to my mom, stopped talking to my dad, my friends again, I was self isolating and there were times when I'd want to pick up the phone and

• 1:10:49Jody Mitic?

  just call like you or Rob or um, or some of my friends at home or some of my sniper buddies and just be like, I don't know what to do.

• 1:11:00Jody Mitic?

  And now you're a man echo, right?

• 1:11:03Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 1:11:04Jody Mitic?

  Imagine trying to make that call.

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:07Jody Mitic?

  And I'm not saying it's a man problem, I'm saying it's a definitely a human problem.

• 1:11:12Jody Mitic?

  But I'm the guy, everybody thinks I get told you're the poster child of success post injury. And I'm like, in my head, I'm like, I'm a fucking bullshitter. Like, that's how you feel and I'm like, whether I am or not, I've been lucky and I've made a few decent decisions on for my own accord and I am where I am through hard work and discipline. And now what? And now I feel like I'm losing it all because I have I have I been faking it? Was this just a ride that I was on and now I'm done and I want to get off like the thing, the things that go through your head? Now, first of all, I was never suicidal, I'd never thought, never crossed my mind. I don't know why it just didn't, but I did have one thought one day where I went,

• 1:11:56Jody Mitic?

  I think I understand why some guys take that path, though. I had such a day one day where it was in December and I, it wasn't like I thought, oh, things would be better if I was dead. It was like, I just, I was at such a low moment and I went. I think I get it why sometimes guys take that path. Cause it's just like, you know, like it was just such an extreme combination of everything from all sides. And I went, I think I kind of get it now. Cause before I, I don't know about you, but I've, I've tried to figure out why some of the guys go that route. And I just can't, but that moment I went, oh, okay. I kind of get it.

• 1:12:33Jody Mitic?

  And it was, it wasn't like I thought solution for myself, but I, I just, it was very quick. It took about two minutes of in and out. And it stuck with me though, because I went, that's the first time I've ever had any thought like that. Right? And then, so my daughter's birthday is late December and I missed that one too. And then

• 1:12:55Jody Mitic?

  New Year's Eve. And I've already made plans to go and do an assessment that would tell me how terrible of an addict I am. As a, as an alcoholic, because that's what you are. You're an addict. And I'm going to AA kinda, sorta. And I have a sponsor who's all over me. He's a great guy and I won't say his name here, but he knows who he is. And he's a beautiful human being.

• 1:13:22Jody Mitic?

  And he's trying to get on top of me and Luke's trying to get on top of me and my mom and my ex and my friends. And they're all trying to just be like, okay, man, like we get it. Now we've heard, we've heard your calls loud and clear. Now how do we help you? And then it's trying to like mitigate that. And then, well, it's, you know, it's Christmas. I'll have a few drinks. I know I told the world this, but you know, I can handle it. I'm not, I'm not that bad. And then the next morning you're like, oh man. But then New Year's Eve, I had some company that came out because they're like, we heard you, man. We're here. It's New Year's Eve. Let's hang out. Let's be, let's have fun. Have a few drinks. We're all here to keep an eye on you. Can't get that bad. We know who you are. And the next morning it's like, I did what? Because now all the pressure's on now to get better.

• 1:14:08Jody Mitic?

  And I was hearing radio interviews where they're, I was headline news in Ottawa for a couple of days. Where they went, wow, real brave of him to say that. Now, how's he gonna get better? Guys are talking about me, I have to retire. Or resign from politics. Uh, in Canada with the gun laws as they are, a public cit- anyone can call in a threat on anybody who owns guns. Right? So some gun-hating citizen, and I'm not hating them for this, I'm just hating them for being a dick. Said, oh, I can get a prominent gun owner's guns taken away if I call the police and say, I think he's a threat to public safety. And that's all you have to do. It's completely anonymous, which is bullshit. And anyone can do it against anyone that's a gun owner.

• 1:14:53Jody Mitic?

  And so now the police call and they say, listen, we have to do an investigation. So like- Damn, so that actually happened? So this was, this was right before New Year's Eve. So I'm like freaking out. I am losing my shit. And because I'm like, I don't know how it works. Now they're very understanding, but they have to do the check. They, look, once the investigation started. Real or not, or um substantiated or not, we gotta go through steps one to Z. Okay. So they go and inspect the guns. They, the guns are safe. The guns are where they're supposed to be. Everything's locked up. Everything's proper. Da-da-da-da-da. Talk to my family. Nope, he's never been threatening with them. La-la-la-la.

• 1:15:33Jody Mitic?

  And then like, and then, and then, and then New Year's Eve rolls around and I have that terrible, this is the last, I, the last drop of booze I had was New Year's Eve. And we started with a small bottle and I drank it all myself. And-

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  Just past New Year's Eve.

• 1:15:51Jody Mitic?

  Just past New Year's Eve. Like, so, what's today, 24? 22 days ago, 23 days ago. And the next morning, uh, I got a little bit of a lowdown about what I was like and I call him Evil Jody. And he came out once in 2000 and-

• 1:16:08Jody Mitic?

  Five? After my first deployment to Afghanistan and before my second one where I got wounded. And I was bouncing at the time and I was, you know, having some little bit too much fun in life maybe, but I was also drinking too much for the wrong reasons at the time. And a lot of us were because we had, the Canadian forces, we hadn't dealt with, you know, combat a lot, right? Like I said, and a lot of us were green, uh, when we went into Afghanistan the first time. So maybe a lot, like you said, a fair number of us, me included, were maybe choosing the wrong ways. Um, I was still meditating and all that, so mitigated a little bit, but I called him Evil Jody.

• 1:16:48Jody Mitic?

  He came out, my friend, my one, one of my buddies who, uh, still talked to, he's a police sniper now, but he, he pulled me aside and he said, "Hey, man, like, I've never, ever seen you act like that ever. No matter how drunk you were, what it was going on, or how angry you were, who pissed you off. What the fuck was that about?" And I went, "Oh, that sounds like grandpa or whatever." So I locked him in a cage and I used to joke that, you know, "Oh, don't, don't let the caveman out of his cage." And then, but that night, so the 25 days ago or whatever it was, he got out. And I didn't hurt anybody or anything, but I said things you don't, shouldn't, and I maybe

• 1:17:30Jody Mitic?

  made actions that you shouldn't.

• 1:17:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, for me, the biggest thing is when you, you realize that you had no control over what's happening.

• 1:17:37Jody Mitic?

  How about not even remembering?

• 1:17:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying.

• 1:17:40Jody Mitic?

  I did what? I said, "What to who?" Oh my God, and you're just like, you're think, and I called, so I called one of the people that was there and I said, "I am so sorry." And he was like, "Been there, done that, dude. You gotta get your shit together. I'll be here when you're done, when you're ready, or I'm here tomorrow." He was such a great guy about it. And I went, "Oh, so the world doesn't hate you for being a fuck up." And that helped too.

• 1:18:08Jody Mitic?

  We talked about this last night, like who, when you mitigate, um, crisis, David Letterman or Tiger Woods? Whoever, like, don't follow the Tiger Woods book. Go with David Letterman.

• 1:18:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so explain what David Letterman did, because I didn't remember it.

• 1:18:22Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, so in, in, in, uh, in a nutshell, David Letterman got, he got caught in an affair on his wife.

• 1:18:28Jocko Willink?

  David Letterman, by the way, is a, is like a talk show host at night. And, uh,

• 1:18:33Jody Mitic?

  Well, he was.

• 1:18:34Jocko Willink?

  People not, yeah, he's not anymore, but I guess he was. And he was pretty popular at some point.

• 1:18:38Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, he was all, like, he, some people knew.

• 1:18:40Jocko Willink?

  Don't know, is a, is a golf player, so he,

• 1:18:43Jody Mitic?

  Yeah. If you haven't heard of him, he's like, yeah, he's like, half-black, half-Tai, and, you know, he swung a golf club pretty good for a minute. Uh, but he got caught cheating on his wife, too, but, so David Letterman got a, uh, blackmail letter right before one of his shows. And the guy said, I know what happened, da-da-da-da-da.

• 1:19:02Jocko Willink?

  Cause he was having an affair or something?

• 1:19:04Jody Mitic?

  He had had one, or he was having one. And it was like, pay me forty thousand dollars a week for the rest of my life, or this or something, I'll tell the world. And David Letterman went, "All right, I fucked up." And he went out and he, and I don't remember, I did see it, but I don't remember exactly how it went, but basically, usually they do a monologue, these guys, before their show, and he went, "Instead of today's monologue, I'm gonna look into the camera and I'm gonna say, "I cheated on my wife. And she knows about it, and we're working on it, and somebody else found out, and they thought they were gonna get money from me." So he looked in the camera and went, "Fuck you, the police are coming to your house right now.

• 1:19:42Jody Mitic?

  And to the rest of you, I apologize, I'm sorry, I'm, to my wife, I apologize, and I understand if this is a problem for us, and then we will have to deal with it again. Because of who I am, it's world news, and da, he, he owned it. He owned all of it. And, uh, the other day, he interviewed this guy named Obama, you might have heard of him, uh, on his new show on Netflix, called, uh, I forget what, The Next Guest or something. And he was on, he's, he, he's still seen as a good dude.

• 1:20:11Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 1:20:12Jody Mitic?

  Cause he owned it, and he, and he worked through it, and he, and he didn't not talk about it. And then there's what Tiger Woods did, which is run away, hide, not admit anything. And Tiger Woods went through four or five years of just complete chaos in his life. Before he finally even, I think now he still places in the bottom 50. I think he's. At the PGA. I don't know. He still plays, but he probably just plays to pay the bills now. He was worth a billion dollars at one point. And he lost it all because of not owning a fuck up. He probably still would have lost a lot of it because his wife took half, but regardless, sponsors dropped him. He himself is a human being, couldn't look himself in the mirror, I'm sure, right? And blah, blah, blah.

• 1:20:54Jody Mitic?

  So I said, okay, well, this is my Tiger Woods or David Letterman moment. Like going on the radio, I thought was it.

• 1:21:02Jody Mitic?

  Now we're two weeks later, ish, whatever it was. Yeah, like two weeks later and I'm like, well, either I never drink again, or I continue down the path of bullshitting myself into saying, well, I'll just get better when I'm ready. And this journey I've been on for, since I left, when did I leave? I forget. Jan 18 or 19, I left Ottawa and I've just been driving. I wanted to drive Route 66 since I was a teenager. And you know, like I talked to the kids, I talked to Alana, I talked to my mom, I talked to everybody that mattered and I said, I'll be back. First city council is January 31st, after our Christmas break anyway.

• 1:21:45Jody Mitic?

  And I said, I'll be back. I'm gonna go visit some people that are gonna look me in the eye and tell me if I'm full of shit or not. You guys being some of them. And when I get back, I'm gonna, my therapist, I already have an appointment. My, my doctors for my legs, because I'm going back to basic training to learn how to use prosthetics again, so I don't go through those issues again. I'm gonna talk about my addiction issues. I'm gonna talk about why I'm not, I'm going back to the gym. I have a diet plan already. I have a trainer waiting.

• 1:22:19Jody Mitic?

  I'm, I'm going back to the base. I'm back. I'm in basic training to be a human being again. And I, I was, I was laughing this morning, listening to your show about the basic training at Marine Corps Base in Paris Island, because I was like, fuck, man, I just, I keep doing this every three or four years. I, I gotta go back and relearn what it's like to be Jody Middick, because I am evolving.

• 1:22:43Jody Mitic?

  I had to evolve beyond the soldier and then I had to turn into the citizen and then now I'm turning into something else, I think, because I had a plan until I was forty-four. I thought twenty-five years in the army, or twenty, what was it, twenty-seven years? Retire, become a contractor, teach shooting for the rest of my life and just be that grumpy old guy that, you know, well, if you want to know about shooting, you talk to that guy. Be good, decent money, right? I didn't want to get rich. I just wanted to pay my bills and hang out with my, my dream retirement was going to be to herd alpacas around on my horse with my rifle, shoot coyotes and, and listen to like gangster rap and read books. Like that was it. That was what I wanted to do.

• 1:23:25Jody Mitic?

  But, but life has a funny way of pointing you in directions that maybe you need to go in or you didn't know you had to go in.

• 1:23:34Jody Mitic?

  I'm back on the Jocko podcast. Spilling my whole life and my soul out for everybody and I hope somebody learns. If we keep one troop from, like, listen, even if you're on the road where you know you're fucking up, pull over, call in air support, like Jocko said, like, you got, we have so many resources we don't know about and, you know, we all, I'm the lone wolf. Well, even the lone wolf runs in a pack. And I think that that's how I've, I've thought it like, you know, the soft guys, you know, we're all alphas, but we're in teams, you know? And I rolled in a team of three hardcore guys. It was me and my boys and, but we, at the same time, I knew I had artillery support. I had air cover. I had this. I had another

• 1:24:19Jody Mitic?

  sniper team covering the flank over there and recce platoon over there and you're never alone. And even last night, like, I, I felt bad. I, I'm still in that t-shirt. I drove in all day from the t-shirt I wore the day before and he showed, Doc, I've never seen Jocko dressed up and I'm like, oh shit, Jocko's like in a button down shirt and he's wearing shoes.

• 1:24:40Jocko Willink?

  Let's not get crazy. I had on a pair of jeans, vans, a t-shirt and a flannel shirt. That's.

• 1:24:45Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, you were dressed up.

• 1:24:46Jocko Willink?

  That is dressed up.

• 1:24:46Jody Mitic?

  It was a button up shirt? But I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, okay, so I haven't seen, seen you in two years, ish, give or take a few months. We've talked, but it's not like we've been on the phone for hours being like, hey, bro, what's going on? Like, you know, we're busy dudes. We kept in touch the way guys like us do, but. We sat down and I'm like, okay, do I eat dinner and then tell him tomorrow? Or, and I just basically threw up all over you. And you, and you were awesome and I love you for it and I appreciate it, but I needed that hour of just talking about myself and I felt bad about it too because I'm like, I haven't even asked him how his kids are. You have, I have friends that'll do, you were willing to do that and I've done that for hundreds of guys.

• 1:25:31Jody Mitic?

  But then when it's you doing the talking, man, it's tough and I get it now. I get it now more than anything. So guys, you need, you gotta pull over. You gotta like, you just gotta take a knee and let somebody else take point for a bit and that's just the way it is.

• 1:25:48Speaker 01

  You know how you were said, you said, um, you kinda understand when people feel suicidal? You know, remember when you said that?

• 1:25:58Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I know, I know. And I've said that a bunch of times since it happened. But what's your question? Sorry.

• 1:26:03Speaker 01

  Like, do you, do you, because I think about that too sometimes where.

• 1:26:07Jody Mitic?

  That's the only time I've ever had that thought.

• 1:26:09Speaker 01

  Well, I don't think about me. I'm thinking like other people, like what does it take to be like, you know what? I'm gonna end my life. My question is, do you think that it's like? That feeling is like, it's almost like this immense boredom with like, you know how like you do, you just don't have, it's not like this pain that I gotta end. It's more that like, there's really no reason for me to, it's like you're going up this hill, but the hill isn't that steep, but it's just so long. Yeah, you know?

• 1:26:33Jody Mitic?

  I think that's part of it. Yeah. Like it's, it's like, from what I've read, the few suicide notes that I've seen when, you know, when you find, like we had one, uh, I don't know if I talked about it on, on the show last time. We, I was teaching on a sniper course and one of the guys, I was talking to him at one moment about what we're gonna do Saturday. Cause they're all guys you work with, right? It's, it's kinda like, I'm sure it's the same as the SEALs. A lot of them that come on the sniper course anyway are guys you've picked out of the platoons. And, and then, you know, even if they pass, you still have a meeting where you go, okay, do we really wanna work with Echo guys? Like, I know we gave him the badge, but is, are we gonna let him into the teams? And then, so this is one of the guys. So, you know, I'm getting to know him a little bit more. He's from the other battalion.

• 1:27:15Jody Mitic?

  And, uh, yeah, cool, man. I know this girl in town and this and that. Okay, right on and. Twenty minutes later, we're like, where the fuck did he go? We're doing roll call. Where the fuck is he? And we found him hanging from one of the, you know, the pavilions that are out in the training area. Get shade during lectures. So he was out there and we find this letter on his pillow and I'm reading and it's about they they feel like they're in this pain that's never ending.

• 1:27:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:38Jody Mitic?

  And I don't think it's boredom. I think it's just this. It's the no light at the end of the tunnel feeling.

• 1:27:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, as you were asking that question, um, the word I wrote down was was because we've been talking about it. We've heard from it from the last couple podcasts that we did. And it's the same thing you just said, it's hope. So when you don't have any hope that this is going to end, when you don't see any light at the end of the tunnel. And like I said, when you're, when you're stuck in this storm and everywhere you look, you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel. You don't see that this cloud ends somewhere and that the thundering lightning will subside. You just are in a storm. No matter where you look, there's a storm. And they say, you know, there's no hope of getting out of this storm. And I think that's where, that's where they started having those thoughts.

• 1:28:20Jody Mitic?

  Luckily though, when it, when the thought entered my mind, like I get it. And what I'm again, I never thought of suicide, but I had the thought go through my brain where I go, I get why some people might see this as an option.

• 1:28:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:34Jody Mitic?

  Because I did see like, because I'm texting him, I'm texting Rob, I'm texting, uh, you know, my, my buddies in, in the Kansoff, um, uh, my regimental friends, my, my mom, my dad, my brother. Most of the people that should be aware there's a problem were aware.

• 1:28:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:51Jody Mitic?

  So I still had lots of light coming in, but it was my, now it's your choice. Are you going to go towards it? Or are you going to stay floating where you are? I guess is, is a way of like, are you going to reach for the line? Or are you going to sit there and be like, eh, it's just out of arm's reach?

• 1:29:05Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you know, I, I talk about detachment all the time and this is like another situation where obviously when you're, when you're.

• 1:29:14Jocko Willink?

  Wrapped up in those kind of emotions, right? You, you, you can't see anything else. Somebody that's outside, they're, they're perfectly clear can help guide you out of that. Even though it's gonna be hard and there's things that not understand and all that. But they can at least, they know that they're outside that and they can see it just like on the battlefield. Somebody that's at elevation, you know, you get into a building.

• 1:29:34Jody Mitic?

  Sniper position.

• 1:29:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:36Jody Mitic?

  Guys, go left, go left, go left. And they go right and you're like, fuck.

• 1:29:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So if you can reach out to somebody that can, that has a little bit better altitude on the battlefield that you're in. Then, and if you can reach out to them, say, hey, man, I can't see what's going on. All I see is darkness. Point me in the right direction. And they're gonna tell you some dumb shit.

• 1:29:59Jocko Willink?

  Like, hey, okay, let's get you to a doctor. Let's get you stop drinking. Let's get you in the gym again. They're gonna tell you some stuff that sounds stupid.

• 1:30:06Jody Mitic?

  It sounds, well, it sounds way too easy.

• 1:30:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it sounds way too easy.

• 1:30:10Jody Mitic?

  Oh, you think it's that easy for a, eh?

• 1:30:11Jocko Willink?

  Fuck.

• 1:30:12Jody Mitic?

  Just like that, yeah.

• 1:30:13Jocko Willink?

  But you know what I, what I like, what you said is you're like, man, I keep having to go back to boot camp.

• 1:30:18Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:19Jocko Willink?

  And it's like, that's really, if you think about what boot camp is, what is boot camp? They're like, okay, put your shoes on like this, make your bed like that, eat this food, do this workout. That's what they do. They get you on the program that leads, it's imposed this one. And it, and it leads to having your life somewhat sorted out. And once you get that, then you look around and you go, okay, now these bigger problems. I, if I can control these little things, I can control this, this thing that's a little bit bigger. And if I can control that, I can control this thing that's a little bit bigger. If I can control that, then I can control this other thing that's a little bit bigger. But when you're not, you know, it's the same thing I talk about all the time with the, with the Chechens. And the Russians not, you know, failing on that first war. And it all started when they stopped shaving. Well, it's the same thing with your personal life.

• 1:31:00Jocko Willink?

  When you, when you disregard these, these fundamental things that you would do in boot camp.

• 1:31:06Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:06Jocko Willink?

  When you start letting them go, well, then if the little things fall apart, then the bigger things fall apart. But contrary to that, when you put the little things together, you can start putting the bigger things together.

• 1:31:16Jody Mitic?

  And I've said it, this whole podcast, I've talked about, what did I stop doing? I stopped. Oh, well, fuck, I'm gonna eat pizza tonight instead of my prescribed diet that I've ate for years and makes me feel good and keeps me in good shape because fuck it today. And then the next day, it's like, well, I did it yesterday. I'm gonna have Cocoa Puffs for breakfast. Yeah, yeah. And it was just a downward spiral of, ah, I don't need to go see my therapist. He's all the way in the other town in town and I know my life sucks right now. Yeah.

• 1:31:42Jocko Willink?

  Don't need somebody to tell me that my life sucks. I already know. Hey, what do you talk about with a therapist? What do they talk about? What do you do there?

• 1:31:50Jody Mitic?

  So I'm assuming you've never?

• 1:31:51Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:31:53Jody Mitic?

  Uh, honestly, like you just bounce life off them or?

• 1:31:57Jocko Willink?

  What I'm saying is if you got a guy that's listening right now.

• 1:32:00Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:01Jocko Willink?

  That's like, you know.

• 1:32:02Jody Mitic?

  Is it embarrassing?

• 1:32:03Jocko Willink?

  Not even embarrassing. If you got a guy that's listening right now that's going, well, what the hell would a therapist tell me? Why would I not just, you know, write in a journal or do something like that?

• 1:32:11Jody Mitic?

  Do that too.

• 1:32:12Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 1:32:13Jody Mitic?

  I write in a journal, which I again, which I stopped doing again. The writing in the journal is like your self-check because I go back. I was reading through my jour- I kept a journal throughout the year kinda, but you know, not as often as you should. And I was reading through it and I'm like, wow, I'm even bullshitting myself in this. My last therapy session, which was right before the downward, uh, angle started, um, he said a few things to me that needed to be said and I kinda took it to heart. I guess like, oh shit. But basically he said, you're putting a lot of work into being Jody Middick. And I was like, fuck you, man. You don't even know. You don't even know, but

• 1:32:54Jody Mitic?

  to like, listen, like this is over a year ago and right now I'm like, I'm still like, ouch, that hurt, but he was right. And it took me this whole time to get to the point where I'm leveling off now, but therapy is, you know, um,

• 1:33:11Jody Mitic?

  I think I said this to you last night. It's like Tiger Woods. Okay, Tiger Woods, bad example on how to mitigate crisis, but had a golf coach his whole career. And guess when he started sucking? When he stopped seeing his golf coach? No one is an expert on life. Um, I didn't have PTSD when I got wounded. I was cleared. Two different therapists and a psychiatrist, both said cleared of PTSD. Massive depression, which is normal for losing even a loved one, right? And when they use, when you lose a limb, they say it's like losing a loved one. So two loved ones died, but whatever, whatever. But PTSD can come back. We, in Canada, we call it operational stress injury, which I was diagnosed with, which is like an injury. So if you sprain your ankle or break your ankle, it's an injury.

• 1:33:55Jody Mitic?

  One heals differently from the other, right? Left alone, they both lead to failure. Your ankle will completely deteriorate and fall off and have to be cut out of the body or replaced if you don't treat it. If you're, um, I don't know, what do you guys call a Humvee? Or what do you call a truck?

• 1:34:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, Humvee.

• 1:34:14Jody Mitic?

  Humvee.

• 1:34:14Jocko Willink?

  Hummer.

• 1:34:15Jody Mitic?

  If your Hummer blows an axle, do you yell at it and tell it to toughen up and go have a fucking drink? No, you send it in for fucking maintenance.

• 1:34:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:22Jody Mitic?

  And I used to say this to troops all the time. I'll say it again, and I've said it before. I've said this to colonels and generals, like, dude, man, if you need maintenance, go, go to the fucking maintenance shop, which is in our case, the fucking mine guy. I had a talk with the Chief of Defense Staff, which is our, not SecDev, uh, Chief of Staff.

• 1:34:41Jocko Willink?

  Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, yeah.

• 1:34:43Jody Mitic?

  And we were talking about combat units. And I said, well, you know, and we were both getting on the philosophical side of things. Samurai used to meditate and they do practice calligraphy to perfect it. And the tea ceremony, warrior monks of Europe would meditate, uh, would pray and fast. The Mongolian hordes even had their ceremonies where they purged the demons and da-da-da. What do our modern soldiers do? There's no self-reflection. There's no meditation. There's no, we gotta start from basic training. I've said, and I don't know if I said this on the last podcast. If I did, I apologize. I forgot my own advice again. What's rice?

• 1:35:27Jocko Willink?

  Rice?

• 1:35:27Jody Mitic?

  For your body.

• 1:35:28Jocko Willink?

  Oh, rest, ice, compression, elevation.

• 1:35:33Jody Mitic?

  That's taught to you the first day of basic training.

• 1:35:35Jocko Willink?

  I'm glad I remembered it.

• 1:35:36Jody Mitic?

  Ah, right? But that's your vehicle, right? And your vehicle is your body that gets you into combat, which is where the unit needs you, which is where your country wants you. What's rice for the mind? And this is where we all, as a society, have to go back and think about these things like.

• 1:35:51Jocko Willink?

  Jiu-jitsu.

• 1:35:52Jody Mitic?

  Jiu-jitsu. Yeah, it is.

• 1:35:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, jiu-jitsu, surfing.

• 1:35:55Jody Mitic?

  But this is my point. So when you go to a therapist, if you have no jiu-jitsu in your life, you don't have surfing, you don't have calligraphy, you don't know how to meditate, this could be the beginning of you learning how to be, of the beginning of learning rice for your mind. And that's how I look at it. But even still, I know enough about medicine that I can take care of myself for the most part without going to the doctor. But guess what? Now and then I hit something and I go, fuck, I need a doctor. So therapy, it doesn't mean you have to go every week on order like clockwork, but have someone that you're, that's your therapist, or your psychiatrist, or whoever, whatever level you need or you qualify for and your benefits.

• 1:36:41Jody Mitic?

  And that doesn't mean you go see them all the time. I had a guy that I saw when I had to. But a lot of it is up to you, too. The individual is still a big part of this. I, as an individual, this is where it hit me really hard, and when you heard the emotion in my voice on the radio that day, I stopped even paying attention to myself. And I, as an individual, failed myself, my friends, my, sorry, myself, my family, so my daughters, my ex, my mom, my dad, everyone who loves me for who I am, no matter what I do, and then I failed everyone around me that, uh, my friends, you guys, and this is how you feel, because I didn't, as an individual, take ownership of the problem.

• 1:37:26Jody Mitic?

  So now I am and I'm going back to therapy. I'm going back to the gym. I'm back on my diet. I know I don't look it, but hey, I'm on the road and you know, uh, those little powdered donuts and the little thing with a coffee while you're driving. Delicious, outstanding.

• 1:37:40Jocko Willink?

  Are you talking about the chocolate covered ones or the?

• 1:37:41Jody Mitic?

  Well, those ones too. I found those ones at a gas station in like Texas somewhere and they are.

• 1:37:47Jocko Willink?

  Donuts.

• 1:37:48Jody Mitic?

  Bro, we don't have those things in Canada.

• 1:37:50Jocko Willink?

  They have them in America, trust me.

• 1:37:51Jody Mitic?

  Dunkin' Donut Donuts might be better than Tim Hortons. I'm gonna go ahead and say they're better.

• 1:37:55Jocko Willink?

  Oh, damn.

• 1:37:56Jody Mitic?

  And any Canadian that wants to fight me, Tim Hortons is owned by a Brazilian company now, so whatever. The point is, um, I'm getting back to that life that led me, that kept me in check, cause getting your legs blown off is a rough go. And I'll tell you that right now, but it's not impossible. But like any injury, I have a spot in my back, like mid back, just below the shoulder blades that I hurt when I was 14. And I felt it in basic, I felt it throughout my whole career, but you work on the muscles around it and you learn to mitigate its impact on your daily life. Mental injuries are the same. And I can tell you, I was cleared of PTSD, which is like the extreme mental injury, but I did have a mental injury.

• 1:38:37Jody Mitic?

  And I forgot that. And then I had physical injuries on top of it that I basically ignored. You know, like even the mayor of Ottawa, he'd be like, hey, Jody, uh, you're limping today. What's going on? I didn't think you're gonna make it to this event. This is before I, the wheels fell off. I go, yeah, mayor, uh, you know, I was feeling a little pain and I know I didn't have to be here today, but then I remembered, yeah, I'm not a pussy, so I'm here. And he'd laugh, like, oh, Jody, you're, you're a unique politician, that's for sure. But what I'm saying is like, I'm too stupid to stay home tonight so that tomorrow morning I can feel better and go to the gym and play with my kids. Like that, you know what I mean? Like it's too, too, too tough to be that dumb.

• 1:39:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So a lot of this, clearly.

• 1:39:19Jocko Willink?

  Is ego.

• 1:39:21Jody Mitic?

  Oh, bro. Ego is a motherfucker.

• 1:39:24Jocko Willink?

  And it's funny because and I talk about this all the time, but like, obviously you wouldn't be who you were. And have done what you've done if you didn't have an ego that drove you that want made you want to be. I mean, why would anyone subject themselves to going to sniper school of, yeah, it sounds like a cool job. It's it's a shitty job. It sucks. It's hard to do, but guess what? Your ego, you're like, I want to do that. I want to be the best.

• 1:39:47Jody Mitic?

  Donnie Wahlberg shows you the sexiest part of the job, which is shooting bad guys.

• 1:39:50Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:51Jody Mitic?

  Which is like so rare, by the way, like, yeah, the rest of the job sucks.

• 1:39:58Jocko Willink?

  So, so you wouldn't have done, I mean, that, the books, the politicians, the podcast, everything that you've done. There's, there's some element of ego that drives it. Obviously you want to serve and it will, you wouldn't be, if it was just pure ego. You wouldn't be able to do it either because you, you have to have a will to serve and a desire to serve your country and your brothers in arms. So that's true too, but to take it to the next level, you got to have some ego driving. And then what that's that thing that can drive you to success can also drag you down. When you start saying, I can do anything. I can get through this. I can gut through this. I don't need any help. I can keep on this path. I can quit drinking whenever I want. Those are all things that are.

• 1:40:34Jody Mitic?

  Your, your, your, your ego is your biggest enemy, but you are your own biggest critic as well. Jocko, I'm sure you have these thoughts like any other human being like, if I fail anyone today, the person I don't want to fail is myself. Because you have an expectation of yourself and I know, I know enough about you and I've, you know, we are the enough of the same guy as much as we are different that the biggest person I'm trying to live up to's expectations are my own. So when you get up at 4am every day and god damn it, I wish I could, but I'm not built that way. Bro, I like to sleep. I don't have to if I don't want to anyway, but like see, listen right now, like I can get up at 3:30 if I fucking wanted to, okay?

• 1:41:16Jody Mitic?

  I just don't want to. I don't have to. I can get all my shit done in eight hours. Okay, Jocko. Uh, but your ego is the one that goes, I can do that. And then your critic is the one that goes, no, you can't bitch.

• 1:41:28Jody Mitic?

  And if you fail, the first critic that's there looking in is the one when you look in the mirror and you go, I would do it, man. I would fucking do, I would look in the mirror. I stopped like, like, cause you know, I like, I keep a bit of a beard most times. My beard got big and then it started growing in here and that's when you know something's up with somebody when they grow. No, I'm serious right now.

• 1:41:49Jocko Willink?

  I know that's why it's funny.

• 1:41:51Jody Mitic?

  I wouldn't look in the mirror. Because when I looked in the mirror, I, I, I saw someone who went, you drank last night again, didn't you? Fucking loser. Good job. Yeah. Why don't you shower and go and work?

• 1:42:06Jody Mitic?

  So this, this started coming in because even if I looked in the mirror, it was just enough to be, okay, I'm not a complete mess. Run out the door. My hair grew. It's, it's, it's weird, man. I can, I'm, I'm trying to write this down because I, like, even if it doesn't come out for anybody but myself. It's, I didn't go through it with the legs, losing the legs. And I did go through losing my legs again, but a whole other thing, bunch of stuff was happening. Like realizing, I know I said the soldier is dead, but maybe I didn't really realize.

• 1:42:40Jody Mitic?

  And I had all these people looking up to me and also turning to me to have, okay, hey, my buddy's in, in trouble. Go talk to Jody. This guy's, she's in trouble. Like, and you're taking on all this other stuff and

• 1:42:56Jody Mitic?

  honestly, man, self, I don't know what they call it, self-care? I think is what they call it. Self-care is your first priority.

• 1:43:03Jocko Willink?

  Self-aid. We call it self-aid. Self-aid buddy aid. That's like your first person you gotta take care of yourself.

• 1:43:07Jody Mitic?

  Luckily my daughters are so awesome that, you know, I talked to them on the trip every day and they, okay, when you get back, yep, we'll, we'll, we'll kick it off right where we left it off, but.

• 1:43:17Jody Mitic?

  They're the first ones that are gonna forgive you if you ask for it. And so I've asked my daughters, I told them daddy's going through some stuff, right? You've noticed they're both like, yeah. Cause kids don't get, they don't give a shit. I go, you got kids, right? Yes. Yeah. How many you got again? Yeah, they're, they're the first ones are gonna tell you when you, they were the first ones to tell me like, hey, how come you're not coming around as much as you said you would? Like, god damn it. Daddy's really busy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've always been busy. We wanna go to the park. Um, but yeah, man, I'm on, I'm just trying to rebuild everything and, and stay, stay on the path. Finally, I think, I hope when I'm 50, I'm not going through something again. Because by then I'm just gonna be too old to wanna deal with shit, you know?

• 1:43:59Jody Mitic?

  I'm like, I'm not saying that's old. I'm just saying like, you should have your shit together by the time you're 50, I think. Or maybe I will, but at least I'll have these lessons learned over the last, since 2007.

• 1:44:10Jocko Willink?

  When you said you're trying to write these down, you mean you're writing down what you're going through right now?

• 1:44:14Jody Mitic?

  I'm writing it down and also because I am in the position I am in, right? You know, we're, we're authors now of, out of anything else. Like we talked, we joked about this last night, doesn't make us artists, but kinda does. Right? Writing is an art. Um, but people, if people can learn from what I'm going through, and I know others have written books and done the, gone through the exact same thing, but we all have a unique way of presenting things. Maybe I turn it into a lesson. Maybe I turn it into something I read, like I've read your book four times since it came out. I'm rereading Tim Ferriss's book again, uh, Four Hour Work Week, because that's the direction of life that I would like to go in, politics or not, like doing it your way, but in a way that's smarter, not harder.

• 1:44:58Jody Mitic?

  And in the army, right? We learn, there's the smart way, there's the hard way, and then there's the army way. Or in the Navy, I'm sure it's the same. And sometimes none of them make sense, but you get it done. But I, you know, I wanna spend more time on myself, my kids, my loved ones, my friends. And I think, and I, this sounds a little conceited and a little bit egotistical and a little bit selfish, but I've realized that getting my legs blown off, maybe I've earned the right to just do it kinda what I want a little bit more than I did in the last 10 years. And I wanna hang out with my friends, do something constructive for society still, but.

• 1:45:38Jody Mitic?

  If I want to go shoot, I want to go shoot. If I want to drive my car across America, well, I just want to do that. And I think I've earned the right to have a little bit of flexibility in life to just throw my kids in the car and go.

• 1:45:49Jocko Willink?

  Well, I actually know you've earned that right. And I told you that the first day I met you when you were talking about what you were doing. And I was like, man, you're, you're doing way more than I'd be doing, you know, I'd be, I'd be spending a lot of time with my kids. But you know, you have goals and aspirations and, and you've achieved those, you know, and you've done a great job up there. And, and so that's good, you know, it's awesome to see. And if that changed directions and now you can focus on, you know, taking care of your family, taking care of yourself, which yeah, have you earned it? Hell yeah, you've earned it, man.

• 1:46:19Jody Mitic?

  Well, I think what we always forget and what I forgot, and I've continuously have to remind myself is, I'm the beginning and the end of everything in my world. And that sounds like a self, uh, what do you call it? Self?

• 1:46:33Jocko Willink?

  Self fulfilling prophecy?

• 1:46:34Jody Mitic?

  No, no, no, no. Self involved, a little too self involved, but if I'm not up and ready to go at 8 a.m., my kids don't get to school on time. And if my kids are late, their teacher's mad at them and then that's a snowball in their life. If I'm late, they wonder where I am. If, if I'm not at the office, my staff has to tell someone, hey, where's Counselor Middick? Uh, he's not here right now. Where is he? I don't know. Or they may have to make up a bullshit excuse. And even if you tell them your job is to lie for your boss, no, no, it's not. Your job is to be on, to work on time, Jody. So self care and self help and all that stuff is, and taking care of yourself is the beginning of taking care of everyone that you feel you have a duty to.

• 1:47:18Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:18Jody Mitic?

  And that's ultimately what I wanted to talk about here and what I want, you know, so, you know, when I, when I bust your balls about getting up at 3:30 in the morning, that's what Jocko does to make sure that everything in Jocko's life falls into place for those. You have four kids, bro. I don't know how you keep up with them all. I only have two and I can barely do it. And, and so what I'm saying, when I go back to my, having my legs blown off earns me the right to be a little bit selfish about what I do with my time. Well, I'm going to be selfish and take care of myself more, which I haven't for a decade.

• 1:47:50Jocko Willink?

  Well, I would expand that to, to, really to everybody. I'm gonna tell you what, I mean, you owe it to yourself, everybody. Whether you've been wounded or not,

• 1:48:00Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 1:48:00Jocko Willink?

  wherever you are in life, because the fact of what you just said, you gotta remember this. If you don't take care of yourself, you can't take care of the other people around you.

• 1:48:08Jody Mitic?

  Right.

• 1:48:09Jocko Willink?

  And, and so you have to. You have to take care of yourself. You know, my simple thing, and, and my wife knows this about me, like, if I don't work out, I'm,

• 1:48:18Jocko Willink?

  I'm not a good, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not the same person, right?

• 1:48:20Jody Mitic?

  Another good person.

• 1:48:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I'm not a good person, you know, but, but really, if I'm not taking care of my health, then everything else kind of starts falling apart. And so, yeah, you gotta take care of yourself. And if you don't take care of yourself, then you can't take care of the people that you care about.

• 1:48:35Jody Mitic?

  And, and so that's the duty, really, and that's what I wanted to talk about a little bit today, and what I was saying before, about if you're feeling it, pull over. And that's the thing, like, you can't expect anything of anyone else if you can't, if, if you can't show up at work on time, like, why should you or staff?

• 1:48:52Jody Mitic?

  And if you don't take care of yourself, then, then why should you expect to take care of anyone else? And we all have support. You know, and I'm, I'm, I know I'm, I know I'm hammering this a little too hard, but dude, I'm, I'm, I'm learning a hard lesson here, and I'm trying to avoid, we all, I think, have to learn it, but there's, like, there's, you can learn it harder than others, and I think I'm learning it the really hard way. Because I am a public person. Like, like, uh, private, in, in Canada, we call them bloggins. Bloggins is like Smith in, in the army. So if Bloggins is having a rough time, he doesn't have to go on the radio and tell the world. He doesn't have to go on the Jocko podcast and tell the world, but he has to tell somebody. And that's the biggest thing. You think, you think it's scary to go to a therapist?

• 1:49:37Jody Mitic?

  Who is a trained professional, like, think of a therapist, like, going to the rifle range and learning from the master sniper. That's what you're doing. You're going to learn how to shoot, except it's for, for your mind. Would you not go to the range to learn from a master sniper if you want to be a better shot? Of course you fucking would. I, I'm a master sniper, and I'd go to the range and learn from a master sniper right now. That's what a therapist, or psychiatrist, or psychologist, or counselor, any of them are professionals in the mental game of life. Now, I'm not saying all are equal. As well, if you don't like one. Fire him and get a different one. But start there and start looking for the help that's available and don't put it all on yourself. And again, if you think that's embarrassing going to a stranger, which is actually pretty easy.

• 1:50:22Jody Mitic?

  When you actually get in the room and start talking, you find you might, they might have to tell you to shut up because their hour is up. Um, try going on the radio. Or the Jocko podcast or writing a book like, you know, I put out a lot of my warts in that book too. And I'm still learning. And I've got all these resources. So, you know, it's not, it's not, it's not, no one's too proud, no one's too tough. And I'm about done like talking, let's talk about something fun right now, bro.

• 1:50:51Jocko Willink?

  No, it's all good, man. And I think, you know, I'm, I'm. As we were talking and I didn't, I didn't know if we were going to do a podcast or not when you came down here. I didn't know if you want to talk about any of this stuff or we're just going to hang out.

• 1:51:01Jody Mitic?

  I appreciate this because the whole drive, I've been thinking and talking to myself and listening to other podcasts. I'm like, I needed to do this.

• 1:51:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And really like what you're saying is gonna, it's obviously it's going to help people, especially the idea. And I'm glad you talked about this a little bit. You kind of threw it in there, but like looking at yourself in the mirror, right? Looking at yourself in the mirror and saying to yourself, you know what? I need some fire support here. I'm going to reach out and I'm going to get it from some people.

• 1:51:29Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:29Jocko Willink?

  And there's not a damn thing in the, in the world wrong with that. And that's how you sort of. That was the thing. That was the thing that made you go, okay, I need help. I'm going to go make this happen. And so it maybe that can help some other people that. Aren't feeling too good right now. Go look in the mirror, admit to yourself, you got some problems. Maybe the problems are a little bit bigger than you. We've been in combat situations that were bigger than us. You have to call in fire support. There's nothing wrong with it. There's no shame in it. Go make it happen.

• 1:51:58Jody Mitic?

  Yeah. And, uh, and take care of yourself. Take ownership. Extreme ownership.

• 1:52:03Jocko Willink?

  I like the way you think.

• 1:52:06Jocko Willink?

  You know, um. Yeah, I think that's a good place, man. I think that's a good place to chill. If we want to talk about something different, we can do that really easily. All we do is we just ask Echo to talk for a little bit.

• 1:52:16Jody Mitic?

  Yeah. Get in some philosophical stuff.

• 1:52:18Jocko Willink?

  Echo Charles.

• 1:52:19Jody Mitic?

  Yes.

• 1:52:20Jocko Willink?

  Do you, uh, you know, we want to talk about something good. Can you talk about something good? Like maybe how to support ourselves and if.

• 1:52:27Jody Mitic?

  If they want.

• 1:52:28Jocko Willink?

  Someone wants, maybe how someone could support. This podcast.

• 1:52:31Jody Mitic?

  If they want.

• 1:52:33Speaker 01

  It's your choice.

• 1:52:34Jody Mitic?

  Which they should.

• 1:52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Jocko Krill Oil and Joint Warfare. Here's the thing. You know how like-

• 1:52:39Jody Mitic?

  My joints have been hurting me lately.

• 1:52:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, and sometimes you can be addicted to-

• 1:52:43Jocko Willink?

  Some joint warfare for sure.

• 1:52:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it helps. Not in a non-drug- Joint Warfare. Pharmaceutical way. It's good. Yeah, it's interesting. Uh, but it does work, especially if you're getting physical and whatnot. General joint disintegration or degeneration.

• 1:52:58Jocko Willink?

  Degeneration.

• 1:52:59Speaker 01

  Not disintegration. Yeah, I don't, I don't know how much it would help with disintegration. Nonetheless, Jocko has some supplements. They're good supplements. They're for your joints. One is Krill Oil, Super Krill Oil. The other one's called Joint Warfare. Glucosamine Kajoritine.

• 1:53:14Jocko Willink?

  Yes. Curcumin.

• 1:53:16Speaker 01

  And curcumin. That's for like cartilage.

• 1:53:18Jocko Willink?

  It's all-

• 1:53:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:53:19Jocko Willink?

  It's joint warfare.

• 1:53:20Speaker 01

  No, cause you know how like when your meniscus or like your elbow-

• 1:53:23Jody Mitic?

  Well, stop saying such big words. Just talk.

• 1:53:25Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm telling you, this is, this is the truth, the real deal.

• 1:53:29Jody Mitic?

  So if I take this, the knee I tweaked the other night, this will help.

• 1:53:34Speaker 01

  It will help.

• 1:53:34Jody Mitic?

  With the meniscus around my kneecap.

• 1:53:36Speaker 01

  Yes, the, the, the joint warfare will.

• 1:53:38Jody Mitic?

  I'm into it.

• 1:53:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully. Also, what we kinda talked about earlier, Jocko Discipline. Pre-workout, we call it pre-workout, but it's a pre-mission. Cause it has cognitive enhancers.

• 1:53:53Jody Mitic?

  Pre-mission, I love this.

• 1:53:55Speaker 01

  Jody's checking it out. Fired up about it. Nonetheless, that's good. That's good for anything you're about to do. So when we say pre-workout, it can be pre-study, pre-exam, pre-test, pre, uh-

• 1:54:07Jocko Willink?

  Pre-podcast.

• 1:54:08Speaker 01

  Podcast, whatever you like, whatever you like. It's good. Nonetheless, you can get those-

• 1:54:13Jody Mitic?

  Take one or two scoops. Don't be a pussy. Take two scoops, guys. Like, come on, what are we saying here? Sorry. Sorry I interrupted you.

• 1:54:18Speaker 01

  No, no, not at all.

• 1:54:19Jocko Willink?

  I had a, I had a real long night the other night of, of work.

• 1:54:24Jody Mitic?

  Did you take three?

• 1:54:25Jocko Willink?

  And I took three.

• 1:54:27Jody Mitic?

  Yes.

• 1:54:27Speaker 01

  What do you normally take?

• 1:54:28Jocko Willink?

  Two. Two.

• 1:54:30Jody Mitic?

  So what are you, what are you weighing in now? Two twenty?

• 1:54:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:54:34Jocko Willink?

  Probably two thirty.

• 1:54:35Jody Mitic?

  Two thirty and so two scoops is enough for you?

• 1:54:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:39Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I'll stick to two scoops for now.

• 1:54:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:42Jody Mitic?

  But I might ramp it up to four if I really have to.

• 1:54:44Jocko Willink?

  Be careful. Make sure you have something to do. Like a project, like don't just take.

• 1:54:50Jody Mitic?

  Like writing a book?

• 1:54:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:51Jody Mitic?

  Let's do.

• 1:54:52Jocko Willink?

  If you have to write, no, that's a great time.

• 1:54:53Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:54:54Jocko Willink?

  If you have to write, then take it then.

• 1:54:55Jody Mitic?

  Does it make you jittery?

• 1:54:56Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:54:57Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 1:54:57Jocko Willink?

  No, because it's only got a.

• 1:54:58Jody Mitic?

  So it's smooth, but you got the energy?

• 1:55:00Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:00Speaker 01

  Actually, caffeine's pretty low.

• 1:55:01Jocko Willink?

  The caffeine is very low. It's the same caffeine as Jocka White Tea. It's the same amount. So, per scoop, so you'll get double that, but it's not, it's fifteen milligrams. So, it's meant to not make you all jittery, because you can't, that's not good.

• 1:55:15Jody Mitic?

  But everything else I'm reading in here, and what little I do know about nutrition, this is all stuff for focus and long-term, like, energy release.

• 1:55:22Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:55:24Jody Mitic?

  The only thing missing that I, I don't know, I don't know science, is B vitamin. Is that in there? Or am I missing it?

• 1:55:31Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:55:32Jocko Willink?

  I think.

• 1:55:32Jody Mitic?

  So turning forty means I have to wear glasses now too, by the way.

• 1:55:35Jocko Willink?

  I wrote that extra small too.

• 1:55:37Jody Mitic?

  My perfect sniper vision, I think, is good for long distance, but now I'm like my dad.

• 1:55:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:43Jody Mitic?

  Doing the.

• 1:55:44Speaker 01

  You gotta find the sweet spot. That's what it is, right? Because your eyes can't like focus or whatever.

• 1:55:50Jody Mitic?

  I'll be taking, can I have a case?

• 1:55:51Jocko Willink?

  You can have that right there?

• 1:55:52Speaker 01

  Straight up case.

• 1:55:53Jody Mitic?

  I'll just keep this right here.

• 1:55:54Speaker 01

  Actually, that's good, and surprisingly tastes good. You wouldn't expect Jocko to be like, make it taste good.

• 1:55:59Jocko Willink?

  No, I'm very hyper about making things taste good. If things don't, if things taste like crap, then.

• 1:56:03Jody Mitic?

  If life is hard, food should be tasty.

• 1:56:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:07Speaker 01

  I dig it, and I understand that, but you wouldn't really expect that.

• 1:56:10Jody Mitic?

  When you can drink.

• 1:56:12Jocko Willink?

  So you're saying it's out of character for me to want things to taste good?

• 1:56:15Speaker 01

  I hear what you're saying. I think that's the dichotomy of you, because I heard that before, even like with, you said you don't drink coffee. You're like, I just, I don't like the taste of coffee. Why would I drink it? I'm like, oh, alright, you don't like the taste.

• 1:56:25Jocko Willink?

  Jocko's got a little weakness.

• 1:56:26Speaker 01

  Nah, bruh, you don't like the taste, you don't like the taste, right?

• 1:56:29Jody Mitic?

  Listen, I made fun of.

• 1:56:29Speaker 01

  It's yucky.

• 1:56:30Jody Mitic?

  When I did drink, my friends who drink beer, because that's Canadian, is to drink beer. And I'm like, beer tastes like shit. I'll drink cider. Ooh, the apple juice? I'm like, it's got more alcohol in it than beer, bitch. Like, it's. What do you like? If he doesn't like coffee, he likes white tea. I think white tea sucks, but I'm not Jocko.

• 1:56:49Jocko Willink?

  We got this, uh, I'm making this protein powder right now.

• 1:56:53Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:53Jocko Willink?

  And like criteria number one was, yeah, it has to be good protein and all that. But the strong second criteria was it's gotta taste so damn good.

• 1:57:02Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:02Jocko Willink?

  Which.

• 1:57:04Jody Mitic?

  You forget you're drinking protein?

• 1:57:05Jocko Willink?

  Uh, the first sample tasted really good. Like, I was shocked at how good the first.

• 1:57:09Jody Mitic?

  But.

• 1:57:09Jocko Willink?

  We tweaked it a little bit. The second sample came back. It tastes even better. I mean.

• 1:57:14Jody Mitic?

  Well, hang on, how much sugar are we talking?

• 1:57:16Jocko Willink?

  There's no sugar.

• 1:57:17Jody Mitic?

  Oh.

• 1:57:17Jocko Willink?

  No, there's no.

• 1:57:18Jody Mitic?

  Cause that used to be the trick. This protein's so good.

• 1:57:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:21Jody Mitic?

  But it's thirty grams of sugar.

• 1:57:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, no, no, no sugar. And then the, we've got one more coming back, but the second iteration of it tastes delicious.

• 1:57:30Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:30Jocko Willink?

  And.

• 1:57:31Jody Mitic?

  Do you have any samples left?

• 1:57:32Jocko Willink?

  Uh, no. Echo's yesterday, he's like, he's like, well, you know, I don't ever really liked protein powder. And I'm like, bro, this is nothing to do with you wanting to drink protein powder. You'll be drinking this like you wanna drink a ice cream.

• 1:57:41Jody Mitic?

  It'll be like, it'll be like chocolate milk.

• 1:57:43Jocko Willink?

  It's so good, yes.

• 1:57:44Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:45Jocko Willink?

  So.

• 1:57:45Jody Mitic?

  We'll see about that.

• 1:57:46Jocko Willink?

  We're running on that one. So where can you get all this shit, Echo?

• 1:57:48Speaker 01

  The proof is gonna be in the pudding, as they say. originmaine.com, that's where you get it. Also at originmaine.com. You can get, you will get geez rash guards. This is for jujitsu, by the way.

• 1:58:02Jody Mitic?

  Oh, yes, sir.

• 1:58:03Speaker 01

  Made in America. I know Jody is from Canada.

• 1:58:07Jody Mitic?

  Better than made in somewhere else.

• 1:58:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:09Jody Mitic?

  Not a lot of us up in Canada. We don't have time to make gees and stuff like that. So make it in America. There's ten times more people down here.

• 1:58:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I dig it. And all the stuff on there is made in America. It's good. Go there, see if you want something, get something. Good way to support also. Fitness gear. Jocko got a new kettlebell that is heavier than mine.

• 1:58:31Jody Mitic?

  Is it his head? Is it, is it, is it your little head that you got on this?

• 1:58:35Speaker 01

  It might as well be.

• 1:58:36Jody Mitic?

  Dude, that is the greatest. If nothing else comes from this, this little avatar of you.

• 1:58:40Speaker 01

  Jocko approved.

• 1:58:42Jody Mitic?

  I want like an amulet of your head.

• 1:58:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll give you a shirt. It has one right in the back.

• 1:58:46Jody Mitic?

  Okay. Done, done.

• 1:58:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's good. Yeah, the kettlebell should be his head, cause the reason he got it was because I had a heavier kettlebell. By happenstance, by the way. I didn't get the heavy one, just you know.

• 1:58:58Jody Mitic?

  Sorry, is this a kettlebell I can buy from Jocko?

• 1:59:02Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:59:02Jody Mitic?

  Or this is just Jocko bought a heavier kettlebell?

• 1:59:03Speaker 01

  I was about to say, which it reminds me every time I'm about to talk about kettlebells. The kettlebells I have, you know, the ones from Onnit.

• 1:59:09Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I got all of them.

• 1:59:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 1:59:11Jody Mitic?

  Except I don't have the Bigfoot one. Because I was like, without legs, I can't pick that one up, it's just too heavy.

• 1:59:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:17Jody Mitic?

  I'm prosthetics.

• 1:59:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I dig it.

• 1:59:19Jody Mitic?

  And I haven't picked up anything for over a year anyway, so.

• 1:59:21Speaker 01

  That's what I was trying to imply to Jocko, that like, since mine is heavy, I can pick it up, he can't pick it up, etc. It's two pounds heavier than his. So that's why he got the heavier one.

• 1:59:30Jody Mitic?

  Roger that, yeah, I'm tracking now, I'm tracking.

• 1:59:32Jocko Willink?

  Hundred and six pounds.

• 1:59:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, congratulations.

• 1:59:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:59:35Jody Mitic?

  Is this, was this a custom-made kettlebell?

• 1:59:37Jocko Willink?

  No, got it from Rogue Fitness.

• 1:59:38Jody Mitic?

  Rogue, right on.

• 1:59:40Jocko Willink?

  My boys at Rogue Fitness.

• 1:59:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's like.

• 1:59:41Jocko Willink?

  Made in America.

• 1:59:42Speaker 01

  It's like the boring round one, you know, you said you have the, um.

• 1:59:46Jody Mitic?

  I got the ones, yeah, that's why I thought you meant that Jocko was coming out with a kettlebell. I said, well, obviously it's gonna be shaped like Jocko's head.

• 1:59:53Speaker 01

  You should, that's my, that's my opinion.

• 1:59:54Jody Mitic?

  Because they could do that, and now I think a product was just born.

• 1:59:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe, actually, someone, someone said that a couple of times before.

• 2:00:01Jody Mitic?

  Okay, well, anyway.

• 2:00:02Speaker 01

  I agree, I agree.

• 2:00:03Jody Mitic?

  This is the longest commercial ever, by the way.

• 2:00:04Speaker 01

  It's not a commercial, you, we deviated from the commercial to talk about this stuff.

• 2:00:07Jody Mitic?

  So Roger, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

• 2:00:09Speaker 01

  No, we're supposed to do that.

• 2:00:10Jody Mitic?

  Okay.

• 2:00:10Speaker 01

  That's part of the deal.

• 2:00:11Jody Mitic?

  You're right, I know, I forgot, I told you, I'm in basic training for life again.

• 2:00:15Speaker 01

  Nonetheless, back to the kettlebells, if you get kettlebells,

• 2:00:20Speaker 01

  in a way that's not competitive with your friend, or if it's competitive with your friend, whatever, the ones from Onnit, that's the cool ones. Jody has the whole set, I have the whole set, if you have the whole set, you're cool like us, not like Jocko. Also, when you get Jody's new book, of course Jocko's book, any of the books we read, or go over on the podcast, I made it easy for you, got a section on the website.

• 2:00:43Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:44Speaker 01

  Books from the website, got them all listed by episode, by the way.

• 2:00:48Jody Mitic?

  Thanks.

• 2:00:48Speaker 01

  Click through there, get them through there, real easy, a good way to support as well, that'll take you to Amazon.

• 2:00:53Jody Mitic?

  I'll just say, sorry, real quick, Unflinching the Making of a Canadian Sniper and Everyday Heroes are my two books.

• 2:00:59Jocko Willink?

  They'll both be on the website.

• 2:01:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:00Jody Mitic?

  Both be on your website.

• 2:01:01Jocko Willink?

  Yep, they'll be linked.

• 2:01:02Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, and they are available through Amazon and, what's the Kindle they have?

• 2:01:06Jocko Willink?

  Amazon Kindle?

• 2:01:07Speaker 01

  Kindle, that's Amazon too, I think.

• 2:01:08Jody Mitic?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:09Speaker 01

  Everywhere, right, like audiobook, all this stuff, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I'll have it all on the website, so yeah, when you get that, boom, click through there, it's way easier for you, and it's a good way to support. If you want to continue shopping on Amazon to buy your. Weed whackers and what else we buy on Amazon, go ahead, do that too. Good way. Also,

• 2:01:30Speaker 01

  subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already. Seems normal. Seems obvious.

• 2:01:34Jody Mitic?

  iTunes.

• 2:01:35Speaker 01

  If you wanna subscribe, as far as subscribing goes, it's more about like what you listen. Do you listen to iTunes?

• 2:01:41Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, that's what it exclusively.

• 2:01:43Speaker 01

  Exactly right. Some people, they listen to Google Play.

• 2:01:45Jody Mitic?

  Can you subscribe on Google Play though?

• 2:01:47Speaker 01

  I, I don't know.

• 2:01:47Jody Mitic?

  Yes. Oh, okay. That's what I was getting at. I don't know where else I get subscribed.

• 2:01:51Speaker 01

  It's the same thing. Yeah.

• 2:01:52Jody Mitic?

  Roger that. Okay.

• 2:01:53Speaker 01

  And now there's different apps now.

• 2:01:55Jody Mitic?

  Yep.

• 2:01:55Speaker 01

  Like, they're basically.

• 2:01:57Jody Mitic?

  You mean different apps? Stop, you're confusing me.

• 2:01:58Speaker 01

  This is, okay, consider it this way, and I, this, I'm new to this too.

• 2:02:02Jody Mitic?

  Okay.

• 2:02:02Speaker 01

  Where iTunes, when you think podcasts, you think i, iPod, podcasts. So podcasts are exclusive to iTunes. It just feels that way. Like, where do you listen to podcasts? Well, on iTunes, obviously. Here's the thing, podcasts are podcasts. Just cuz iTunes has, it's like if you watch a video.

• 2:02:19Jody Mitic?

  If I just went to the website, what's your website again?

• 2:02:22Speaker 01

  JockoPodcast.com.

• 2:02:24Jody Mitic?

  So if I go to JockoPodcast.com, could I listen straight from the podcast, from the, sorry, from the website?

• 2:02:28Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:02:29Jody Mitic?

  On my computer?

• 2:02:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:02:31Jody Mitic?

  Bob's your uncle.

• 2:02:32Speaker 01

  Boom. There it is. Yeah. And, uh.

• 2:02:35Jody Mitic?

  I did not, I did not know that.

• 2:02:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's basically all these different ways to listen to it, and if, whatever way you choose to listen to it, there's where you subscribe. In the event of these things offering a subscribe option, which I think they all do, I'm not sure cuz I don't explore all of them. It's just how it works. So what I'm saying is, if you wanna subscribe, subscribe. Good way to support. Also on YouTube, which we have a YouTube channel, by the way, Jody Middick.

• 2:02:58Jody Mitic?

  Roger that.

• 2:02:59Speaker 01

  Not just the video version of this podcast, but excerpts and various

• 2:03:06Speaker 01

  creative videos. Here and there. And some outtakes, by the way. Um, not many, but you know, a few. I'll put more up there. Also.

• 2:03:17Speaker 01

  Jocko has a store. It's called Jocko's Store. Jaco'sStore.com, obviously. That's where we get, or we make, these shirts. Joe, do you see this shirt Jocko has on right now?

• 2:03:27Jody Mitic?

  The Victory MMA and Fitness?

• 2:03:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, he always has that shirt on, by the way.

• 2:03:30Jody Mitic?

  He does that? Well, not last night. That's why I was... It was underneath my flannel.

• 2:03:34Speaker 01

  Roger that. Yeah, I was gonna say, how did you even recognize?

• 2:03:37Jody Mitic?

  But that's why I wore my friend's... So this is a Tactical Beaver shirt. And it's a Canadian company started by cans off guys. Good dudes. I was gonna wear this last night. But I didn't... I thought Jocko would show up in t-shirt, so I stayed in a t-shirt.

• 2:03:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:03:51Jody Mitic?

  And anyway, so now he's in a t-shirt and I'm in a collared shirt.

• 2:03:54Speaker 01

  You're all dressed up, yeah, man.

• 2:03:55Jody Mitic?

  Anyway. Actually, Tactical Beaver was my last podcast, if you listen.

• 2:03:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:59Jody Mitic?

  They were on the show.

• 2:04:00Speaker 01

  It's good. It's pretty dope. You know what else is dope? The shirt Jocko has on, and the shirt I have on with Jocko's head on it. And if you want this shirt, Jaco'sStore.com. There's a lot of shirts on there.

• 2:04:12Jody Mitic?

  I have a green and black one in my suitcase back at the hotel of that one.

• 2:04:15Speaker 01

  Boom.

• 2:04:16Jody Mitic?

  I thought it'd be weird wearing your shirt to hang out with you, though.

• 2:04:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I thought so, but there's a deeper meaning. I think the fact that Jocko's head is on my shirt and I'm sitting next to him.

• 2:04:25Jody Mitic?

  But you're part of the show, so you gotta wear it.

• 2:04:27Speaker 01

  Oh, I'll wear it in my...

• 2:04:28Jody Mitic?

  I should wear the Echo shirt sometime. There's an Echo shirt? Yeah, there's an Echo shirt. I need five immediately. I have four friends and myself that want that shirt.

• 2:04:35Speaker 01

  Oh, alright. There you go. You got it. No problem.

• 2:04:38Jody Mitic?

  I've been unplugged since May, basically.

• 2:04:40Speaker 01

  Good. To me, you gotta unplug sometimes. That's my opinion.

• 2:04:43Jody Mitic?

  You know what? And that's going back, yeah. Unplugged. I'm going off Facebook while personal. I'm gonna just keep the business side, but your personal stuff is... Anyway. Finish what you're doing. I'm sorry.

• 2:04:54Speaker 01

  No, you're part of what we're doing.

• 2:04:57Speaker 01

  I'm not gonna read a list of things that you should or should not do. I'm gonna ask you about it. I'm gonna ask Jocko about it. Jocko will tell me to hurry up. I may or may not hurry up. Whatever. That's how it always works. Nonetheless, Jaco'sStore.com. Any shirt you want.

• 2:05:10Jody Mitic?

  I wrote that down, I'm gonna go on that right after the show.

• 2:05:13Speaker 01

  Yes, there's also some patches on there, some hoodies, rash guards, hats, women's stuff on there, kids' stuff on there, it's good, good stuff. Beanie's are on their way, so if you go like, well, you figure, well, beanie's could very well be on there.

• 2:05:27Jocko Willink?

  They're on there.

• 2:05:28Speaker 01

  Do you wear a beanie, Jocko?

• 2:05:30Jocko Willink?

  When it's cold outside.

• 2:05:31Jody Mitic?

  Just when it's cold, it's not a fashion statement for you?

• 2:05:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:05:34Jocko Willink?

  I don't do anything for a fashion statement.

• 2:05:35Speaker 01

  Here to win, man, here to win, no fashion.

• 2:05:37Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 2:05:38Speaker 01

  Shirt looks good though, bro, for sure. Anyway, jockostore.com. I'm not saying go buy something, I'm not saying that.

• 2:05:43Jody Mitic?

  But you should.

• 2:05:45Speaker 01

  But if you like something, get something, it's a good way to support also. I don't know if you know about this, you might, I don't know, Psychological Warfare. Is that ringing a bell?

• 2:05:53Jody Mitic?

  I mean, I know what it is.

• 2:05:55Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:05:55Jody Mitic?

  Is this, is something, is there more to your statement?

• 2:05:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Psychological Warfare is an album that we created with tracks. Jocko tracks.

• 2:06:05Jody Mitic?

  Ah, playlist.

• 2:06:07Speaker 01

  Yes, a playlist, yeah. I prefer album tracks. Mixtape, yeah.

• 2:06:12Jody Mitic?

  A mixtape of Jocko's hurt.

• 2:06:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, essentially, but here, it's for a specific reason.

• 2:06:16Jody Mitic?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:06:17Speaker 01

  It's not him playing the ukulele, because he plays ukulele now.

• 2:06:21Jocko Willink?

  Indeed.

• 2:06:21Speaker 01

  It's him telling you how to get through certain weak moments.

• 2:06:26Jody Mitic?

  Oh, his, his, his videos?

• 2:06:29Speaker 01

  No, no, better, more specific, so here, here's what it is.

• 2:06:33Jody Mitic?

  Okay.

• 2:06:33Speaker 01

  Good, I'm actually glad you don't, you don't know the specifics of it.

• 2:06:36Jocko Willink?

  Because that way you can talk about it for 28 minutes.

• 2:06:38Speaker 01

  It's actually number one on iTunes, by the way, but you know.

• 2:06:41Jody Mitic?

  Oh, that, I downloaded that, I never listened to it though, sorry, bro.

• 2:06:45Speaker 01

  You don't need it.

• 2:06:45Jody Mitic?

  I just wanted to support my friend.

• 2:06:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you gave the support.

• 2:06:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's okay.

• 2:06:49Jody Mitic?

  But I probably should have.

• 2:06:49Jocko Willink?

  You can let it support you too.

• 2:06:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's really what it's for.

• 2:06:52Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:53Speaker 01

  To support you, I used to, you know how like, you know how when you work out? And you don't feel like working out, or you go to work out and you don't feel like working out?

• 2:07:01Jody Mitic?

  I fell like that for the last 18 months.

• 2:07:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, then you'll be like, you know what, I'll do it tomorrow.

• 2:07:04Jody Mitic?

  Yeah, I've been saying that since last October, I'm with you. October 2016, I've been saying that.

• 2:07:09Speaker 01

  So there you go, I thought that was my biggest weakness, I'd come to Jocko, I said, what are you doing, you don't feel like working out, I mean, I know, cool, you're tough, you just do it.

• 2:07:16Jocko Willink?

  I work out.

• 2:07:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and he goes, no, but there's more to it than that, it's not that simple, you know? And he explained it, I said, you know what we're gonna do, we're gonna record that.

• 2:07:25Jody Mitic?

  Oh, is that, that was the birth of the psychological warfare.

• 2:07:28Speaker 01

  That's exactly what it is.

• 2:07:29Jody Mitic?

  I should, I did download it actually when it came out. I just, I forgot I even had it.

• 2:07:33Speaker 01

  Look at the tracks. Here's what you do. Look at the tracks and be like, because it's not just missing workout. It's like procrastination, uh.

• 2:07:41Jody Mitic?

  I'm a pro at that now.

• 2:07:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, so like.

• 2:07:43Jody Mitic?

  I've, I got my black belt in procrastination, bro.

• 2:07:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, so consider one that, that you're like, okay, not only will it help, it'll 100% get you through it.

• 2:07:51Jody Mitic?

  Roger that.

• 2:07:53Speaker 01

  Been the case for me. Anyway, get it, you can get that on iTunes, of course. And anywhere where they sell MP3s, Amazon Music, whatnot. It's a good one.

• 2:08:03Jocko Willink?

  Couple other things on Amazon, you can get Jocka White Tea. It's no big deal. Unless you want to deadlift 8,000 pounds minimum, then you drink Jocka White Tea and you're there, no questions asked, 100% guaranteed.

• 2:08:16Speaker 01

  Yep, right there.

• 2:08:17Jocko Willink?

  If you want to get some books, you can get Jody Mitic's books. There's two of them, Unflinching. The Making of a Canadian Sniper and also his latest book, Everyday Heroes, which is War Stories From The Generations.

• 2:08:33Jocko Willink?

  Edited by Jody. You can get Way of the Warrior Kid. So you can teach kids to do the right things in their lives. You know, things like Be On The Path, that's all I'm gonna say. Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. That book. Yeah, it's about.

• 2:08:52Jocko Willink?

  Getting on the path and staying on the path. That's what it's about. Not gonna say anything else about that one. I will accept for that the audio version of that book is not on Audible. It is on.

• 2:09:04Jocko Willink?

  Anywhere you can get an MP3. Which means iTunes, Amazon Music, Google Play. And then, of course, the first book, Extreme Ownership. Combat Leadership. There's a new version out. It's black, which makes it a little bit cooler. You can get that. Learn How To Lead. Also, be on the books and the podcast. If you need leadership. Let's say leadership guidance and direction at your company, at your business, or at your team. I have a leadership and management consulting company. It's called Echelon Front, and that is what we do. We come to your organization, we assess the situation. And we get problems solved through leadership.

• 2:09:47Jocko Willink?

  It's me. It's my brother Leif Babin that wrote Extreme Ownership with me, who was one of the platoon commanders that served with me in the Battle of Ramadi. It's JP Denell, who was the point man and the lead sniper of Delta Platoon in the Battle of Ramadi. It's Dave Burke, who was an F-18 Marine Corps fighter pilot, top gun pilot, top gun instructor, top gun senior instructor, F-16 pilot, F-18 pilot, F-35 pilot, F-22 pilot, first... He sounds like he's pretty good at his job. He's not bad. He's the first operational squadron commander for the F-35.

• 2:10:32Jocko Willink?

  He's the only man in the world qualified to fly all those aircraft. But none of that matters because what he did was cool, was he was on the ground with us in the Battle of Ramadi as a Anglico team leader with his team and was with... What is an Anglico? It's the guys that call for fire. Like your JTAC? Yeah, they're JTACs, but the Marine Corps has Anglico. But they call it Anglico? Air Naval Gunfire Liaison. Roger that. Yep. And that's what he did for us. Outstanding guy. He's been on the podcast, number 69, I believe.

• 2:11:09Jocko Willink?

  So he's part of the Echelon Front team as well. Also, on top of that, there's the muster. It is the leadership seminar with us, the Echelon Front team. Again,

• 2:11:26Jocko Willink?

  in 2018, we're only doing two musters. People think we're going on a rock and roll tour. We're not going on a rock and roll tour. We're not going city to city. It's not going to happen in Cleveland. It's not going to happen in Milwaukee. It's not going to happen in Dayton. It's not going to happen in San Diego this year. It's only happening in two places. It's gonna happen in Washington DC, May 17th and 18th. So that's where you go if you're on the east coast, east of the Mississippi, you come to DC.

• 2:11:51Jocko Willink?

  Sorry, what day? May 17th and 18th. If you're west of the Mississippi, you come to San Francisco, October 17th and 18th. That's it. Like I said, we're not going anywhere else. So the reason is because we don't have time to do them. It's to get all the Echelon front team together and set it all up. It's very hard to do because we're working with clients all over the country and all over the world. So we can't just do musters all the time. So that's why we're doing two of them. If you want to come, sign up. All the four of them that we've had so far have all sold out. These are going to sell out too, 100%.

• 2:12:30Jocko Willink?

  So if you want to come, you gotta go and register to attend extremeownership.com. Can I reserve two spots right now in Washington? Yes, you can. Alright, cool. Cool, cool. Yeah. Jody plus one. Until then, until the muster, if you have questions or answers for us, or you just want to check in and share your wins. I notice people do that now on social media. They share the wins. Yeah, it's good. I got this promotion. I overcame this little situation. They give a little brief on a situation. Hey, I had this guy that was acting wrong and I took ownership and boom, problem solved.

• 2:13:09Jocko Willink?

  I lost weight. I gained weight. I got a stripe on my white belt in jujitsu and I'm proud. Yeah. And I am proud. Yeah, big time. I'm stoked when you get that stripe on the white belt or the blue belt. Sometimes people get the black belt, the brown belt. But what we see is progression. Like I said, people lose weight, people gain weight, people stay clean, people stay off the sauce, people stay off the drugs. People stay on the path. And if you want to check in with us about that stuff, you can do it on Twitter, on Instagram and on that

• 2:13:45Jocko Willink?

  bohachiboha.

• 2:13:48Jocko Willink?

  Jody is at Jody Middick, J O D Y M I T I C. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink. Echo, any closing thoughts?

• 2:14:06Speaker 01

  No, thank you for coming on and it's great to see you again.

• 2:14:09Jody Mitic?

  Youtuber.

• 2:14:11Jocko Willink?

  Mr. Jody Middick, you got anything else?

• 2:14:14Jody Mitic?

  Jocko, thank you for giving me the mic back for five minutes. No, I'm just kidding. Uh, I just want to say thanks to you uh, for bringing me on today. Uh, I know you did this because you didn't have to, because you wanted to and I appreciate that and I needed this. Echo, as always, you should stop drinking, by the way. Um, now that I'm a reformed drinker, that's, that's, that's the, that's the answer to everything. Just stop, just stop drinking.

• 2:14:38Speaker 01

  Surprisingly, it's a, it's a big answer.

• 2:14:40Jocko Willink?

  It's a good answer. It's an answer that I agree with.

• 2:14:42Jody Mitic?

  You know, if you look at that study that comes out, I forget who does it. I think it's the UN. The most destructive force on earth is alcohol. Above coke, heroin, uh, speed, crack, it all put together booze is still 10 times worse. Like, like when it comes, because it's available to everybody, right? Um, I should thank everybody that's been with me through this. You know, sometimes you think you're alone and you're not. Uh, I've had friends and family that have not stopped. Basically, you feel like they're bugging you, but they're not. They're keeping an eye on you. Um, uh, and all the supporters and the fans and the, and, and just the, the, the Jody Middick fans.

• 2:15:20Jody Mitic?

  Thank you for being there for me. Thank you for being honest with me and thank you to my friends and my family for putting up with me. And, um, I fell off the path. I lost my bearing pretty bad. Uh, but now I've, uh, reorientated the map and I'm back on track.

• 2:15:39Jody Mitic?

  And uh, give me, give me some time. The Jody Middick Podcast will be back up and running in short order. Give me six weeks ish and we should have, be pumping out some episodes. Who knows? Maybe I'll fly Jocko up to Ottawa and we'll do an episode. I don't know. The point is, something will be coming and there's a few hardcore, I'm talking granite hard fans that have like stuck it out and they send us at least a tweet a week to be like, where are you bitches at? And we're coming back quick. Um, just a real quick shout out to my friends at Tactical Beaver. If you want some of their stuff, just go on Tactical Beaver. Yes, like the animal. Uh, you can get some of their gear. It's pretty cool. Uh, Canadian twist, a Canadian flavor. And if you're, you know, if you're the one guy in your unit that has it and you're not Canadian, you might be,

• 2:16:24Jody Mitic?

  uh, you might be popular for a minute, but, um, and, uh, you know, and, and the last thing, uh, goes out to my kids, Ayla and Kira. Ayla's nine, Peanut, Kira's six, Squeaky. Uh, they're waiting for me at home very patiently. And, uh, as soon as daddy's home, we're gonna go to jujitsu because daddy needs to learn to. And I know you guys don't like it now, but when you're older, you will appreciate it. And for the rest of everybody else, um, we're gonna look at the camera for a minute. Echo, you can edit that in, right?

• 2:16:55Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:16:56Jody Mitic?

  Um, I, I know I've said sorry before. I'll say it again. And, and thank you, I will say over and over again for supporting me. And it's because of people like Jocko and Rob, who you'll meet, who's a Green Beret and some other very special people in my life that I'm, found a reason to get back to being myself. And, uh, and, uh, and that's about it. That's all I can say. Thank you, man.

• 2:17:19Jocko Willink?

  Awesome, brother. Well, it's awesome having you back on again. And you'll be coming back on again and again, as you continued on this, this journey you're on.

• 2:17:28Jody Mitic?

  Eventually I'll be better and I, and we can just keep growing down and helping others.

• 2:17:32Jocko Willink?

  It's all good.

• 2:17:33Jody Mitic?

  When my next book comes out, I will come back.

• 2:17:35Jocko Willink?

  That's awesome. And so thanks for coming on. It's awesome to see you again. And like I said, we'll, we'll keep doing this for the next 20 years. And finally, thanks to all the servicemen and women out there right now.

• 2:17:52Jocko Willink?

  Right now, think about that right now, right this moment in time. There's men and women out there on the front lines, face to face with evil.

• 2:18:03Jocko Willink?

  So, thanks to you all for protecting us and our freedoms. And to the police, law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, and the rest of the first responders. Thanks for your service and your sacrifice to keep us safe here at home.

• 2:18:23Jocko Willink?

  And to everyone that's out there grinding, working, driving trucks, pouring concrete, hammering on a project, building bridges, or building software, sewing some garments, or sewing a field. Farmers, factory workers, engineers, electricians, plumbers, and pilots, and ground crew, and cooks, and waitresses, to everyone out there working hard and listening to this, and just trying to get yourself a little bit better today than you were yesterday.

• 2:19:05Jocko Willink?

  Thanks for listening. And as you meet struggles,

• 2:19:15Jocko Willink?

  and as you struggle to stay on the path, first of all, remember you don't have to fight alone. Reach out to your comrades in arms.

• 2:19:26Jocko Willink?

  Call for fire support when you need it. We win wars because we stick together, and when we stick together, we can overcome any enemy.

• 2:19:38Jocko Willink?

  And the struggles that you face,

• 2:19:44Jocko Willink?

  when they, when they do try to flank you,

• 2:19:49Jocko Willink?

  do what Jody did. Do what a soldier does. Turn into the ambush, turn toward the enemy fire, and attack.

• 2:20:04Jocko Willink?

  Until next time, this is Jody Middick, and Echo, and Jocko. Out.