760 Terry Crews on Success, Accountability, and Toxic Masculinity

YOU ARE WORTHY OF LOVE. So many of us hide who we truly are. We bury our shame thinking that if anyone knew we would no longer be accepted. But living this way keeps us from connecting with others. It keeps us from truly experiencing life. I kept my history of abuse hidden for a long time. It wasn’t until I told my story that I could become the person I am today. You have to forgive yourself. On today’s episode of The School of Greatness, I talk about shame with a person of great courage and integrity: Terry Crews. Terry Crews is an actor, activist, artist, and former NFL football player. He plays “Terry” on Brooklyn 99 and is now a host on America’s Got Talent. Terry was included among the group of people named as Time Magazine's Person of the Year in 2017 for going public with stories of sexual assault. Terry has a powerful way of talking about what it means to be a man. We all can benefit from hearing his story. So get ready to learn all about guilt, shame, and toxic masculinity on Episode 760. Some Questions I Ask: What’s the biggest mistake that was the hardest to forgive yourself for? (5:30) What’s your view on forgiving toxic men? (55:00) How did you learn to forgive yourself? (1:00:00) What do love most about your wife (1:05:00) In This Episode You Will Learn: About Terry’s history of addiction (14:00) Why men need intimacy (21:00) The three stages of every man’s life (28:00) The difference between shame and guilt (31:00) The definition of toxic masculinity (40:00) About Terry’s #metoo moment (45:00) Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 760 with Terry Crews.

• 0:06Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:31Lewis Howes?

  Louis B. Smeed said, "To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you." Welcome to this inspiring episode. We've got Terry Crews in the house. I am so pumped. I met Terry about a year and a half ago when I came out with The Mask of Masculinity book launch. And Terry and I got connected. We met for dinner, had an amazing conversation, and I just said, "Dude, I can't wait till I get you on the show because people need to hear your story." It's mind blowing the things he's been through, the challenges he went through as a kid, what he did in football. For those who don't know, he's a former NFL football player. He's an actor, an activist, an artist.

• 1:15Lewis Howes?

  One of the most talented artists I've seen. I mean, this guy commissioned artwork to make extra money when he was playing in the NFL. And his art is world-class. He is the host of America's Got Talent. He's a star on the sitcom Brooklyn Nine-Nine. He did one of the best commercials of the decade, if you ask me, as the Old Spice guy. I don't know if you guys remember these commercials, but he pretty much made the brand and blew it up with these commercials he did. He's been in a bunch of movies, Friday After Next, White Chicks, which was hilarious, and so many more movies, shows, and everything else in between. This guy has done it all, and he is just getting started.

• 1:54Lewis Howes?

  And in this interview, we talk about how Terry reveals everything about his marriage and how he almost destroyed his relationship. We talk about toxic masculinity. Talk about the Me Too experience from Terry being harassed in Hollywood. We talk about keeping yourself accountable, having other people keep you accountable, and forgiveness when people make mistakes, including yourself. We talk about going over the importance of shame versus guilt. And we discuss the importance of supporting other people who are suffering.

• 2:28Lewis Howes?

  Terry's got a ton of energy. You're gonna feel this in the episode. If you're not a subscriber to the YouTube channel, make sure to subscribe over on youtube.com/LouisHowes. So you can see his passion and his energy. Probably one of the best dressed men I've ever met as well. This guy is a champion and is doing so much good for the world. I'm so excited for this one. Make sure to share it with your friends. LouisHowes.com/760. Let's spread this one far and wide and spread some positivity in the world to your friends. Again, a big thank you to our sponsors and I'm so excited about this one. Make sure to share with your friends. Tag me, tag at Terry Cruz over on Instagram while you're listening. Without further ado, let's dive into the one, the only Terry Cruz.

• 3:18Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. We've got the iconic legendary Terry Cruz in the house. My man, so pumped about this. We met about a year and a half ago after my book came out. I think someone maybe told you about what I was up to. We started connecting. We had dinner and I just fell in love with you. So even more than your persona on TV and movies and commercials, I was just like, here is a man of integrity. Here's a man who's speaking the truth. And here is a man who hasn't had a perfect life from childhood, but also has made a lot of mistakes as a man. And you talk about that in your book and publicly about how you've made tons of mistakes in your marriage, with your kids, parents, with

• 4:00Lewis Howes?

  the other things, right? What do you think has been the biggest mistake that was the hardest for you to forgive yourself that you did? First off, we're getting deep for-

• 4:09Terry Crews?

  Oh yeah, let's go. Let's go. First of all, being unfaithful to my wife. Let's give you a little background on this whole thing. My wife and I, we've been married- Thirty years now, as of July, it'll be thirty years. And I got married the day before my twenty-first birthday. Wow. And. You didn't even know who you were. Oh, my God, you know what I mean? You're like, oh, somebody likes me, marry her, you know what I mean? And let me tell you, man, um, it's weird because you don't know why you do things, okay? Especially in my culture, and I want to specifically talk about African-American culture. Therapy was looked at as something that meant you were crazy.

• 4:51Terry Crews?

  And it was like, the whole thing is, I'm not crazy, why would I go to the therapist? And what was so wild is my father was super abusive, okay? He was very abusive to my mom, my family, the whole thing, he's an alcoholic. Physically, emotionally? Everything, man, just, just, just, man. Nothing was good to him until it was wrecked. Like, anything, if you were having fun, he wanted to suck all the air out of the room. And even to this day, you're like, if, if you're five minutes having fun, he comes in, it's like, oh, my God. He just, it, it's that, it's that narcissist, it's that guy who just, he does not like when everyone else is happy. Yeah. So that was one of the things that I learned.

• 5:32Terry Crews?

  And, and he went to a therapist one time, and when I was a kid, the therapist killed himself. He literally jumped off a bridge. Wow. And I was like, my father went to him, and I'm like, this guy is done. So in my head, I'm like, you know what, it doesn't work. Hmm. So I said, we gotta fight it out. We just gotta do it and make our way and do our thing. And, but when I was about, I would say maybe nine, nine years old, eight, nine years old, I was exposed to pornography. And I developed an addiction immediately, simply because you have numbing mechanisms, things that can get you through. Now, I didn't, I didn't drink. Yeah.

• 6:13Terry Crews?

  I wasn't on drugs, you know, I was in, I was a sports guy, but man, porn was like, if I saw it, it was, oh my, and this is back when you had pornography in the grocery store. Wow, yeah. I mean, people were still experimenting. People were like, it was Playboy days and the whole thing. I remember my mother would send me in to go get some milk, and you, there was Playboy and Hustler. It wasn't wrapped up in plastic? Oh, it was right there, right next to people. You know, it was like, and I would remember just going, what? And, uh, what? And she used to come in like, what do you want? What are you doing? Put that down. I'll put it down, but see. That's the kind of toxic kind of thing that was ingrained in me from a young age. But also, my mother was addicted to religion. Hmm.

• 6:57Terry Crews?

  You gotta understand, Louis, when I was a kid, I wasn't allowed to play sports. I wasn't allowed to go to the movies, listen to secular music, dance. Only thing we did was go to church. So you're talking about, I had two people that were opposite extremes in the house. And I was stuck in the middle. And what was crazy is that I had to please both of them at all times. So I was the good kid. I mean, it was like, my father would come in, oh my God, we gotta just straighten up this house. We gotta do the thing, you want something to drink? Uh, here, here's your beer. What do you want? Just stay out of his way, get everything right, make sure you iron your clothes. Cause he hates when you don't iron your clothes. I mean, just real, that kind of panic. You had to please him constantly. Oh my God, just idiot.

• 7:42Terry Crews?

  If he looked at you funny, you're like, what's wrong with me? Right. You know what I mean? That was the thing. Like he, it was never a love look. Like I never got a look of like, man, I love this. I'm proud of you. I will never forget, man. I remember when he was drunk and he was just sitting there and doing his thing. And he looked at me and, and I was a kid, man. I remember I walked up and kissed him on the cheek. Cause I was like, this is my dad. I didn't, I wanna show him I love him. He looked at me like, he looked at me with such disgust. Wow. And disdain. I said, I will never do that again. I felt so much shame. I remember, I'll never forget it to this day. Man, I'm 50 years old.

• 8:22Terry Crews?

  I was like, oh my God, that look he gave me was like, what is wrong with you? And I was like, I'll never do that again. Wow. And, and then the religious aspect, because I really could never please my mother. Because the big thing with her was that you had to be, you know, you had to be saved. Now, in, in the church I went to, you had to get saved all the time. Every week. You had to be saved every week. And it was like, okay, give your life to Jesus every week. If you knew one sin, now, uh, the one thing that blew everybody away is back in the day, the whole concept was the rapture. That God is gonna come back and he's gonna take all of his saints and, and all the sinners gonna be left. And, okay, when I'm nine,

• 9:05Terry Crews?

  you didn't really explain the whole, the thing to me, because they said, when anybody who's left here, your head's gonna get cut off. This is the way they did it. Your head's gonna get cut off, and they're gonna be bleeding in the streets and...

• 9:16Lewis Howes?

  Put fear in you.

• 9:17Terry Crews?

  Oh, they're gonna throw you in a kiln, and let me tell you something. I mean, they would tell us this. And they were like, so you wanna be good. So, this is the deal. I used to have nightmares, nightmares as a kid. I, I, I literally wet the bed when I was fourteen years old. Because of the violence that was happening, but also just panicked feeling of I'm never good enough. I'm never going to make it. And, and you, you know, I think I told a lie. Did I tell a lie? I don't know. Oh my, I gotta get saved again.

• 9:47Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 9:47Terry Crews?

  So you had this pressure, and I remember just feeling like I was spinning. And there was a, it was, it was what you would call a holy role in church. So, what would happen is, when music would play, people would feel the spirit, and my friend would be sitting next to me, he'd start jumping up and down, everybody's running around, I mean, literally sprinting around the church. And the music is going, and I was like, oh my God, I want this. Like, how do I get this? Like, how do I, can I, can I, can I have it? And the preacher got up there, and he said, you know what? If you don't feel nothing, you must not have nothing.

• 10:21Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 10:22Terry Crews?

  Honestly, this is words I'll never forget. And I went, no, no, no, no. And I was like, and so, I was instantly wrong. Like, I was instantly, I would go home, like, I don't feel it. I, I'm not feeling like jumping. I can't. And then I found out later that these people were manufacturing all this stuff. The pastor that told us that, later, I found out, was selling drugs out of the pulpit, and had girlfriends all over the church. And then I found everything, it was like this lie that I was living, you know what I mean? But, but this was the thing, to escape pornography.

• 10:56Lewis Howes?

  Right. That helped you numb the pain and feel something.

• 11:00Terry Crews?

  It was no wrong in porn. And I was like, oh, they're so beautiful. This is like, oh, and I just would numb out. And then, see, that was back in the day when, when cable just started. So, they had like these little channels, Playboy Channel and the whole thing, and you could, back then, you could actually put the, they would scramble it, but if you held the channel, then you were... Remember if you held it in between.

• 11:24Lewis Howes?

  It was like half the screen. Oh, you can't.

• 11:27Terry Crews?

  And I would do that every, I mean, it was like porn every night, you know what I mean? I was like, anytime anybody was watching, it was like, oh. And it became a stronghold. But I never told my wife. And I thought, this was the thing, when I, when I met my wife, and I met my wife in church, and she was the best woman I've ever seen in my life. And I was like, I can't believe a woman like this would love me. I, I, I can't believe this.

• 11:51Lewis Howes?

  Well, she didn't know about you.

• 11:52Terry Crews?

  I remember.

• 11:52Lewis Howes?

  She didn't know. It's a shame.

• 11:55Terry Crews?

  I told her as much as I felt she could tolerate. I remember just kind of, you know, I, you know, I used to watch this porn, it was crazy. And she was like, oh, really? And I was like, yeah, but I don't do that anymore. You know what I mean? And, and, but this was the thing, I thought, I was thinking marriage is gonna be gone. Cause you.

• 12:13Lewis Howes?

  What's gonna be gone, the porn addiction?

• 12:14Terry Crews?

  Porn addiction. I thought, oh, all I need is a real woman and I'll be fine. You're like, ah, see, that's the problem. I just need to cover it all up. But I never dealt with it. And what happened was, we spent, during our first year of marriage, I mean, literally months later, I was back. And I remember, cause back in the day, you didn't, you didn't have internet. You would never be bookstore.

• 12:38Lewis Howes?

  Videotape.

• 12:39Terry Crews?

  Videotape, stuff like that. And I was just like, man, and I would feel so much shame. Louis, I remember every time I was like, I'll never do this again. I will never do this again.

• 12:48Lewis Howes?

  Two days later, back at it.

• 12:51Terry Crews?

  And you just feel like, and then I just said, you know what? Everybody's lying. Then you, you kind of get rectified where you go, you know what? Everyone is like this. So everyone has a double life. I get it now. Everyone, just, you just have to keep the image. Got it. You understand what I mean? So I was just like, all right, the image is all I need to keep. And of course, you know, we all, we can't really keep, you know, we can't really do be that good. Right. So as long as you keep your image up, you'll be fine. And I did that. For how long? For the next twenty years. Wow. Twenty years. Now, what happened is I was up in Vancouver. And it was my first time working. I had spent seven years in NFL. My wife had went to the NFL with me.

• 13:34Terry Crews?

  We've been doing all this stuff because again, with this kind of pleasing kind of attitude, you can go really far. You can get really successful doing this stuff. You become a machine. I was the workout king. I was the business king. I was the pro. I was gonna make it to the NFL. I was gonna do whatever I put my head to because you're motivated by, you're kicked into your future. Like, everything is like you beat yourself up.

• 14:07Terry Crews?

  You know what I mean? In fact, I'm gonna work out double. Right. In fact, I'm gonna do triple the work. I'm gonna do, you know, I gotta make it, you know? And you don't take no for an answer. You are now so competitive, so like, my whole mindset was now, I'm going to destroy everyone. Everyone, yeah. That was what it is. I mean, I literally, I, I, but I would smile and I would be very friendly. But you were compet- you were competing against everyone. But the whole thing was, it was a plot. Yeah. You know what I mean? And, and, and this was the thing. I finally started acting. And my first job, I was in Vancouver and I knew I was no good, like, because you're, you feel like a farce. It was imposter syndrome. Mm-hmm. Times a hundred because first movie I ever auditioned for, I got, it's a big Schwarzenegger movie.

• 14:51Terry Crews?

  I'm on it and I'm sitting there and I would go back and it was so bad. I remember, they told me, they were like, Terry, we're not gonna use you for a couple of weeks. You can actually fly back home. I was like, no, no, no, no. I'm gonna stay. Right. I'm gonna stay. And they were like, well, you don't have to. I was like, no, I'm gonna stay. I'm, I'm gonna, because I'm thinking I'm gonna get cut or something like that. But I wanted to go and prove that I was gonna be the best actor of all time. Dude, so I'm up there and I'm in a tailspin. I'm lonely, I'm hungry, I'm angry, and I'm tired. You're not working. Dude, I decide, and I'd been watching pornography. Mm-hmm. I decide for the first time to go to a massage parlor.

• 15:35Terry Crews?

  And I'd heard about things, but she's like, well, I'll just, no, I'll go get him. You know, you justify, you literally justify. I went there and was unfavoured. And I was like, let me tell you, when it was, when it was over, I remember going back to my room and I was like, I crossed the line.

• 15:58Terry Crews?

  Like, the line had been crossed, man, like.

• 16:07Terry Crews?

  Even thinking about it now, it was so dark, you know what I mean? I remember just going back in the room and I went back and I was like, how did I do that? You know, it's funny, because once you've been, once you're caught out there,

• 16:23Terry Crews?

  and the big trick is, it's right, you know, this is gonna give you something, this is gonna do something for you, and then you realize you've been duped.

• 16:32Terry Crews?

  And I was in that room and I was like, man, how could I do this? How could I do that? I said, okay, okay, Terry, keep this secret forever. I literally said, I'm going to die with this.

• 16:48Terry Crews?

  I am going to die with this. And I never told her. I mean, and what was weird, it affected everything I did.

• 16:57Lewis Howes?

  How so?

• 16:58Terry Crews?

  I would go home and my wife would go, you know, we'd see something, or it'd be a movie about someplace, cheating or whatever, she's like, mm, you know what, I'm glad you didn't ever do something like that.

• 17:09Lewis Howes?

  And you feel something in your heart, yeah.

• 17:12Terry Crews?

  And you'd be like, mm, yep, yep. She, anything she would question me about, I would start arguments so that they wouldn't get that deep. And I'm like, why, why, why do you think, listen, you don't have any, I would never do anything like that, why would you even think that? And it was projection. Lots of anger and the porn never stopped.

• 17:30Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 17:31Terry Crews?

  Because, because it's not exposed, and this is the thing, she never knew who I really, really was. And I felt like, my God, if I ever tell her, if I show her. She's gone.

• 17:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 17:44Terry Crews?

  So it was a farce.

• 17:45Lewis Howes?

  So the fear of losing was the best thing you ever had. Your family, your relationship, your marriage, if you told her. But you had to hold the pain in and hold the shame in. And you felt like you couldn't ever tell her. So it was like, either way, you lose.

• 17:59Terry Crews?

  It was all loss. So I decided Terry Crews ain't gonna lose. He's gonna fake it.

• 18:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:07Terry Crews?

  You know what I mean? No matter what. And um. But then it all came crashing down. Now, you gotta understand, like, I never went back to a massage parlor. But again, pornography, there was like these, these places that where you could go and there'd be, you know, strip clubs and this, that and kind of thing. And I was just like, well, it wasn't as bad as what I did before. So you start, again, you rationalize and you go, well, I'm just a guy. And or, or then you start an argument with her. And then you go, well, look, I, you know what I need and you, you're not giving it to me. Just all this kind of like justification. Is what I could say. And so you feel like, well, I'm not as bad as him.

• 18:51Terry Crews?

  And dude, she knew the whole time. Because every time you do it, you're not close. It's like you put a new brick in between your relationship. There's a new seal off. And I, this is one thing I discovered.

• 19:06Terry Crews?

  You know, intimacy is what a man is looking for, man. I mean, we need intimacy. And what intimacy is, is when you can see me for who I really, really am and accept me and love me. For who I am, for real. But if, but as guys, if we never show who you really are. How are you gonna ever get intimacy? So it's, it's for real. It's like, you, it's, you're literally yelling from behind a wall saying, how do I look, honey?

• 19:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:40Terry Crews?

  And she's like, I can't see you. But you're like, thank you. All right. Yeah, I'm great. Thanks. And you're like, no. If you show who you really are now, you can deal. But I had a wall. And she was just like, what? She's like, Terry? It was this night. It was, we called it D-Day. It's really, we're going on the anniversary of it because it was around February 4th, 2010.

• 20:07Lewis Howes?

  Coming up.

• 20:08Terry Crews?

  It's coming up. And I remember the Super Bowl was coming up. And I remember it was a snowstorm in New York City. I was in New York, she was in LA. And

• 20:18Lewis Howes?

  You've been together for how long now?

• 20:19Terry Crews?

  Thirty, we have already been 20 years.

• 20:21Lewis Howes?

  20 years?

• 20:22Terry Crews?

  20 years. 20 years.

• 20:24Lewis Howes?

  She didn't know who you were?

• 20:25Terry Crews?

  Did not know.

• 20:26Lewis Howes?

  Wow, okay.

• 20:27Terry Crews?

  And she had, again, she had suspicions.

• 20:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 20:30Terry Crews?

  She had this kind of thing. Exactly. And again, I was covering tracks and, but man, she was like, what is it I don't know about you, Terry Crews? Another thing I have to say is that I was very successful.

• 20:46Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:47Terry Crews?

  I was very successful.

• 20:48Lewis Howes?

  You were rising, achieving.

• 20:50Terry Crews?

  Dude, I'd already been through the NFL, already done all these movies, TV shows, and this kind of thing. Commercials. And this is one thing I tell people all the time is that success is the warmest place to hide.

• 21:03Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 21:04Terry Crews?

  It's so warm in here. Because first of all, remember, the image is the most important thing.

• 21:09Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:10Terry Crews?

  So if the image is good, people are automatically like, he's good. He's got a wife, he's kids, he's got this, he's got that, oh my God, he looks great. But inside, I knew what I was doing. I knew that my crap hadn't been exposed. And she knew. So finally, she came to me that night. And I was at the Mercer Hotel, right there in Soho. Never forget it, man. In fact, I've never stayed in a Mercer since then. Simply because it was just that reminders of, so it's such a dark place. I actually have to redeem that place, you know what I mean?

• 21:43Lewis Howes?

  To go there on the Terry anniversary.

• 21:45Terry Crews?

  Yeah, you know what I mean, right? And redeem it. But what's so crazy is that she said, Terry, this blew me away. It cracked my, it cracked my egg, man. She said, what is it I don't know about you, Terry Crews? Because we had been arguing all night.

• 22:03Lewis Howes?

  Mm.

• 22:04Terry Crews?

  And those words.

• 22:07Terry Crews?

  I remember just hanging up.

• 22:10Terry Crews?

  And then I laid there in the bed. And I was like, you know what, keep the lie, keep the lie, don't tell her. And something told me, man, and I, I ain't gonna tell you, I, I, I don't even have to tell you what it was like the universe. People could call, it was God, it was Jesus, it was, it was whatever runs the world.

• 22:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 22:29Terry Crews?

  Said to me, Terry Crews, if you don't tell her, I'm, I'm going to leave.

• 22:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 22:38Terry Crews?

  Now, I was just like, wait a minute, like, like, like, I've been, it was almost like, he was like, I've been dealing with you forever. Giving you a shot to tell your truth, to really just be honest, you know what? I'm done with you. And I felt so alone, it was, man.

• 22:58Terry Crews?

  Lewis, I can't even describe. It was, again, it was a snowstorm going on, it was like, everything was dark, dark, dark, and I never felt that darkness. Anything like that ever again. It was, the only thing I could compare it to was ten years earlier, when I was in Vancouver.

• 23:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 23:16Terry Crews?

  It was like the whole thing came back full circle. I mean, years later, right? I called her up, we talked again. And I told her.

• 23:29Terry Crews?

  Lewis, I'll never forget the gasp on the other end of the line.

• 23:34Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 23:36Terry Crews?

  It was like, oh no. And she said, oh my God. She said, Terry, don't come home. You don't have a home to come to.

• 23:46Lewis Howes?

  Holy cow.

• 23:48Terry Crews?

  My life was over.

• 23:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 23:50Terry Crews?

  My life was over. That right there, I was like, and then I kind of, and this was a strange thing, Lewis. You know what I was like? I felt relieved. I said, good.

• 24:01Lewis Howes?

  You got it off your chest.

• 24:02Terry Crews?

  You know what? Go ahead and leave then.

• 24:04Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 24:05Terry Crews?

  Then you probably weren't with me in the beginning.

• 24:09Terry Crews?

  Again, it still didn't want to give it up. I was like, you know, I'll just find me another, another girl and now I'll just start over. Cause I'm successful. I'm successful. I already have it. Cause see, just the thing, Hollywood doesn't care if you lose your family.

• 24:24Lewis Howes?

  No.

• 24:25Terry Crews?

  In fact, they're like, look, now we can book you for more movies.

• 24:28Lewis Howes?

  Right, you have more time.

• 24:29Terry Crews?

  Yeah, you now you have way more time. Now you're all good. And I was like, okay, um, you know, I'm good, fine. And then all of a sudden, again, that voice was like, okay, Terry, but it's still you. It's still your problem. You now have no family. All you have is an image that's fake.

• 24:54Lewis Howes?

  And some success and some money and yeah.

• 24:56Terry Crews?

  And I said, oh my God. And he said, Terry, you have to hold yourself accountable.

• 25:06Terry Crews?

  And I was like, it sunk in on me that I knew, I said, oh my God. I had, and then I called a friend, I mean, cause I was, it was dark and I was like, man, my wife left me and she's done with me and the whole thing. He said, Terry, look, I cannot guarantee you or promise you that your wife will ever come back. But you have a problem and you have to get better for you. And that's it. He said, I can't make any promises. Cause I was like, I was like, you know, look, I got, I told her and everything. So now I'm supposed to get everything back, right?

• 25:40Terry Crews?

  No. And so I was like, I see it. I see it. And it was like a cracked egg. It was like this whole life, like one thing I realized is that at certain times in a man's life, he's either a fool, he's a victim, or he's a king. And when you're a fool, you're like, you goof it all up. You know, ah, well, you know, but you, you think there are no consequences for your actions, but there are always consequences for every act you do, everything, good or bad.

• 26:12Terry Crews?

  But then, when you mess your whole life up being a fool, you become a victim. Now, oh my god, look, you know what, you know why, you know why I did that? Cause I was black. You know why? Cause I, I grew, I grew up in all that religion. And my father was alcoholic, you know, he beat my mom, you know that, right? Or, uh, look at this, look at the situation. I'm from Flint, Michigan, man, it's hard, it's hard for a black man in this, in this society. And this is the way we did it, I had. And let me tell you, the table is always full of excuses. Because they're valid. There's a lot of people against you. And you can say, oh my god, this table is full, it's like, man, you know, this is the reason why I'm like this. And this is, this is, and, and man, you never run out.

• 26:52Lewis Howes?

  And you always stay down.

• 26:54Terry Crews?

  Always, you always, and, but the king stage is when you realize, wait a minute, this is your table. Wait a minute, this is your room.

• 27:05Terry Crews?

  You have to accept whatever you are letting into your life, good or bad. As a king, you can tell people, get out of your court. As a king, you don't have to accept any of those excuses. As a king, you have to know that you are responsible for your life, good and bad. You did that. So, as a king, if something's not right, it's your responsibility to change it.

• 27:37Terry Crews?

  Dude, it was like, I had to go to rehab. I went to rehab, it was this place called Psychological Counseling Services. It was in Arizona, I mean, uh, in, um, yeah, in Arizona, in Phoenix. And man.

• 27:51Lewis Howes?

  How long did you go for?

• 27:52Terry Crews?

  Oh man, well, we, we, you go for a full, it's like an intensive. Where you don't do anything, you're there for like sixteen hours a day. And.

• 28:01Lewis Howes?

  This is 2010?

• 28:02Terry Crews?

  This, this was, yeah, this was 2010. So, and my wife told me she thought I would never, ever do anything like that. Because again, I was not, listen, we had been going to like therapy, but when you're not honest, it doesn't work. You're just telling the game and you're not, whatever. Dude, I went in there and I was like, this ain't me, this ain't me in like the first couple hours. I'm like, come on, this is crazy. Then all of a sudden, I was like, oh my God, this is me. Wow. This is me. This is the problem. This is what I, this is the issue. I was in tears. I was, I was broke. I was like, I was toxic. Like, when you finally can turn the thing around and see yourself as ugly

• 28:44Terry Crews?

  as you were, I was just so, so guilty. Let me tell you, it wasn't shame. It was guilt. There's a big difference. What's the difference? Shame says you are bad. Guilt says you did something wrong. I was feeling shame since I was a kid. Yeah. And this is the thing, when you are ashamed person, and when you try to motivate people through shame, what you're doing is constantly telling them, you are a bad person. You are like this. You are wrong. You are messed up. So you know what happens is, no matter where you go, you go back to, I am messed up.

• 29:28Terry Crews?

  But when you realize, wait a minute, wait a minute, it's not that I messed up, it's that I, I made a messed up choice. Yeah. That changed the framework for me. And I was like, it didn't excuse anything, now mind you, it did not. It was, you are, I had to say it. And the thing is, it's like courtroom, like a court. For you to actually be guilty, you have to say it. Think about it. There's nobody, if you never admit guilt, it will never be presented. You have to say, I am guilty. Wow. I did the crime. And it allows everyone to see you as you truly are.

• 30:06Terry Crews?

  And I went through the process of guilt, of making sure I was guilty. I knew what, I said, I put my wife through this. I put my family through this. I did this. I did this. Now let me correct it.

• 30:24Terry Crews?

  But see, shame, you can't correct. Shame is incorrectable. You can't, there's nothing, what happens is shame, you just cover it. Shame is something you just put, you know, let's put some leaves over here, and put leaves over the body. You know what I mean? It's like, there's no way you can really. Yeah. Shame is one of those things where you just have to like color it. Image, image covers shame. But when you are dealing with guilt now. You've been proven guilty, now there's punishments. You have to make amends.

• 30:56Lewis Howes?

  Consequences, yeah.

• 30:57Terry Crews?

  Right, you have to be accountable. There's all kinds of things, man. You have to come back, you have to forgive people who did things to you. You have to ask forgiveness for what you did to other people. Let me tell you, and I have to say this. The forgiveness that my wife showed me was, when I say, a car-carrying lesson for any person ever, because I don't understand why people get divorced. I do. First of all, I should be. But this woman by, this is the thing, this is the intimacy that I always, always wanted. Because she saw me for who I was, for real. And she said, Terry, I love you anyway.

• 31:50Terry Crews?

  That's all you want?

• 31:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:52Terry Crews?

  It's all I ever wanted.

• 31:55Terry Crews?

  All I ever wanted was to be seen for who I was. And I was like, you love me? Like, I thought it was real, I was like, I thought she wouldn't come back. But she did. She said, but Terry, I love you. And man, that blew me away. Because I was living this man life, and here I am. You see me as nothing. I'm like, I'm feeling about myself, like, I feel like I'm worth dirt. And she was like, oh, I love you. And man, that changed everything. It was like, the thing that I needed, I was running from the whole time, Lewis.

• 32:38Terry Crews?

  I was running from it the whole time. And I vowed, I said after that, I said, my God, my God, I can correct this. This is fixable. This is fixable. This is not something, this is what I learned through, through counseling and I continue to, to this day. I mean, it's been ten years. Wow. Of constant, constant work, constant just, hey, man, I can fix this. Wait a minute. And, and this is why, when I talk about toxic masculinity, I'm talking about me. I'm not, I'm not in the game to be like, look at you guys and let me tell you about you and what you've been doing. Hold up, I'm talking about me. First of all, when people clown me about, oh, man, oh, yeah, you got molested.

• 33:23Terry Crews?

  I would have been the guy who, who did that stuff. Yeah. I would have been the guy like, man, you too big to get, man, you just go to smack somebody and get out of here. I would have been that person. So I'm never, ever pointing the fingers at another man as if you need to get it together, brother. I'm not spreading shit. But I am saying we need to say we're guilty. Wow. We need to say what it is we did wrong. And this is the only way, the only way I can really, because right now in, in our society today, we have a big thing about apologies. Yeah, hey, I said I'm sorry. I said I'm sorry. I said I'm sorry.

• 34:06Terry Crews?

  So now you gotta forgive me and let's keep going.

• 34:11Terry Crews?

  The only way I can really, really kind of put this thing down is when it's like driving drunk. You hit somebody in the car.

• 34:20Terry Crews?

  You get out of the car. Hey, man, sorry. Yeah. And then you get back in the car and drive away. First of all, that is a, that is today's version of an apology. But what we're talking about, accountability is totally different. Yeah. Accountability is you stay there with that person you hit. Accountability is the police come. Mm hmm. You've been driving drunk, you get arrested. Accountability, you lost your license. Accountability, you're paying fines and you're paying for the person you hit. And you are paying for their recovery. Yeah, you might be in jail for some time, you might. You might, listen, you'll be cleaning up on the side of the freeway. For. For about six months. Yeah.

• 35:04Terry Crews?

  You know what I mean? That's, it doesn't matter what status you are. That's accountability. You pay the price. Mm hmm. And accountability says, it says now, we can get back to even here. Now, it's about amends. Some balance, yeah. You know what I mean? And that's, that's, that's what I have dedicated my life to doing. Yeah. My life, it's funny because when I look at even the massage parlor that I went to. I, I became an ambassador for the Polaris Project, which deals with sex trafficking. It talked about how many of the women that are involved in that whole thing are not free. Yeah. They're not free. They were there for, they're, they're basically indentured servants.

• 35:50Terry Crews?

  And they're basically trying to pay off debts to get out from some pimp or get out from under someone who's got them. And I played that whole thing out of my head because I said, I did that. Hmm. I gotta correct this. And so I became an ambassador for Polaris Project because to stop human slavery today. The fact that at every opportunity that I can see, I'm really trying to tell my story in order to just bring light to, man, we've been hypnotized as men, we've been hypnotized, man. This masculinity thing is to a point where I could understand the Taliban. Right. Wait a minute, I knew Taliban. Mm hmm. In African American culture, we have a black Taliban. It's like, if you don't do black the right way, you're out.

• 36:35Terry Crews?

  Really? If you are not this kind of black man, you are instantly, this is a lot of things white people don't know, but there is a sector that is so pro-black Taliban, I call them the Ankh right, which is the Ankh symbol, the Egyptian thing, that they actually line up with white racists. Oh, my gosh. And they go attack black people. Let me talk about black people. And it blows your mind. This is Taliban. I was like, this is, but it's as toxic as it comes. And I remember being like, having attitudes and things. I remember my wife would tell me stuff. We would have arguments. I'm like, you know, that girl, she's gotta watch what she's wearing. She's like, Terry, it doesn't matter what she's wearing.

• 37:15Terry Crews?

  Nobody should be able to touch her without her permission. I was like, yeah, but she's wearing it. It doesn't matter. Cause I was in a framework and a mindset where you're like, man, let me tell you, when you come out. And it's wild because it's almost like falling off a cliff. You fall and you just hit the ledge. You think you're on the bottom, but you just hit a cliff. It's like things are revealed and things are like, man, look, look, look. In 2017, my wife and I went to this party and this agent, who was the head of William Morris Endeavor, his name was Adam Bennett, literally represented Michael B. Jordan, Sylvester Stallone, all the super big stars, Adam Sandler. It was actually Sandler's party.

• 38:01Terry Crews?

  And this guy comes over to me, I mean, he's licking his tongue out, doing all this crazy stuff. I've got my wife's hand. Let me tell you something. Once you out of that, you know what toxic masculinity looks like. You know, and I, and I have to say, the, the term toxic masculinity has been overused. People have been like, ah, toxic, you know what it is? It's abuse of power. Quite simply. It's an abuse of power. Anywhere you see this kind of stuff, where you see an abuse of power, we're talking about these kind of problems. This guy came over to me, man, and he's licking his tongue. I don't, now, I know drunk and I know drugs.

• 38:43Terry Crews?

  I grew up in Flint, Michigan. I know the crack epidemic. I grew up with it. I know people who are high as hell. He was high. Yeah. On something. I don't know what it was. He was out of his mind. Eyes dilated, going crazy, and I'm going, what is wrong with this dude? And you're with your wife. I'm with my wife. He comes over to me. He groans me in my gym. I mean, not even, he just grabs a handful. I'm like, ah, hey, man, get back. What are you doing? Man, he's laughing and he comes back again. Ah, I'm gonna get, don't, don't. And I grab his hands. I restrain him. I push him back. I mean, he literally falls into other people. Wow. And I can't believe what I'm, what I'm, I mean, this is my agency. This is the people I pay millions of dollars to.

• 39:27Terry Crews?

  So I, I go, okay, okay. My, my wife has seen me before in my toxic days. Get aggressive, get aggressive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Football days. Yeah, in the football day. She seen me throw people over her head. Wow. Literally. Wow. She seen people get beat down in the street.

• 39:47Terry Crews?

  And she was like, years earlier, you know, this was during the therapy times and during our comeback time. She said, Terry, you cannot let anyone pull you into any sort of altercation because you're gonna lose everything. Wow. She was always telling me, always like. Can't react, can't respond. Can't react, because this was also part of my therapy. Cause I had anger, I had big anger. Wanted to fight. Man, that's how I got in NFL. Yeah. Seven years in NFL is a fight, that's all you do. Man, you got two good parents, you probably ain't gonna make it in NFL. No. I'm just trying to tell you. You get that kind of peaceful like, yeah, you too soft, you too comfortable. Yeah. You play on pain, dude. You play on my daddy beat my mom, like I'm, I'm beat your ass just like that. Wow.

• 40:31Terry Crews?

  My holy skill was my ability to take tremendous amounts of pain. That was the deal, cause I was angry. It's like jail anger. Tell you, I'm no NFL player, you put us in a, you put us in any prison, we'll run it. Wow. I'm just telling you, cause I could go to prison now and I know I would, I could be fine. Wow. Because that pain was something that you like, man, don't touch me, you enjoy to fight. So. You wanna fight. You understand what I mean? Yeah, you look for it, you like, you bring it. And she was like, now you're different. We have to work this. I said, you're right. And I had the question, why would I wanna just snap on somebody? Why would I love to just put somebody's face in the pavement?

• 41:17Terry Crews?

  Why can't I walk away? Let me tell you, man, that was the biggest test I ever had, ever. Cause I grabbed her hand. Because I was gonna kill this dude. Wow. Louis. Dude. Someone grabbed you there? Listen, what people don't even even fathom, fathom is the aftermath of these kinda actions. I know. Because imagine, even if I would've just pow and he fell and died. Um, your career's over. Your life's over. Wait, life's over. Wait, he, if he may not even have been there to tell the story. Everybody was like, Terry Crews just killed a man. Well, what was, was he hot? I don't know. No, no, he bumped into Terry. He got mad.

• 42:02Terry Crews?

  I wouldn't have been able to say, well, he did, they'd be like, yeah, right. Right. Dude, I got in that car.

• 42:12Terry Crews?

  I kept my hands on the steering wheel. I was gonna drive back in. I mean, I literally was gonna drive like, I, I, I, it was, took everything I had to drive away. I go back, yeah. She said, my wife was like, I'm so proud of you. Wow. I'm proud of you, Terry. I'm proud of you. And I was like.

• 42:29Terry Crews?

  Now, next day, go right to the agency. I'm like, hey, man. What are you gonna do about this? Hmm. This is crazy. Guy calls me up. I'm like, I'm sorry I was drunk. Instantly, I knew he was lying. See, when you, because when you tell me you're drunk, I know you're lying. So now you're not dealing with this thing. Now you're, you're not willing to say you're guilty. You just got back in the car. You're making an excuse. Yeah. I'm on the ground. You got back in the car. You drove off. You just made an excuse. And he was like, sorry about that. So I go up, I talked to my agent. I said, dude, you gotta do something. We're gonna handle this. We're gonna handle this at the highest levels.

• 43:08Terry Crews?

  We're gonna do ever, whatever it takes, Terry. You watch. I got zero. I waited, waited, waited.

• 43:18Terry Crews?

  It was like eight months later and I'm going, nobody's doing nothing. And I couldn't believe it. I was like, babe. Nobody's making a move. I said, this is ridiculous. And all of a sudden, Weinstein's story broke, breaks. And these guys, all over the internet are going in on these girls about, they kept this story, you know, now, why are you telling now? Why are you doing this now? Why are you doing that now? I just got so angry, I couldn't believe it, because I said, this happened to me. I was molested. And I didn't go public. You know what I mean? I didn't make a big deal. I'm waiting for them to make it right. I didn't say, William Morris did this, right off. And first of all, if I'd have made a police report back then,

• 44:02Terry Crews?

  I would have been laughed out of the station. Right. They'd have been like, what? Who cares, yeah. What? They grab ass in, man, whatever, because first of all, you're talking about a complicit system. I mean, imagine the women that come through. It's like, oh, yeah, whatever. Look what she was wearing, man. Right. Hey, I couldn't resist.

• 44:22Terry Crews?

  And dude, I would have been laughed. There was nothing I could say. But when that hit, when that happened, I backed those women up right away through sixteen tweets. My wife didn't know, publicist didn't know, agent, the whole, and nobody knew. I was on the set of Brooklyn Nine-Nine and I did those tweets. And I knew, I was like, oh my God. I said, I have, if I had remained silent, I would have felt like a fraud. I said, those women were being sent out in the fire, like they were just out there and these guys were just lambasting them. And I said, I gotta support you. I have to support you. Their courage gave me my courage.

• 45:03Terry Crews?

  And because I know what it is. I know what this shit is, man. And I said, man, and they were gaslighting me, dude. So finally, when I did these tweets, and I remember, I didn't name a name. Did not say a name at all. They usually calls me. Hey, Terry, you all right? Then we saw your tweets and all the thing. I said, so, well, why are you calling me? And he said, well, you know, we didn't know, Terry. We didn't know. This was one of the higher ups. He's like, we didn't know. I said, well, why are you calling me? Because I didn't name anybody in those tweets. Could have been anybody.

• 45:41Terry Crews?

  You knew. So stop playing this fucking game with me. I mean, literally, that's for real. And I was like, dude, are you serious? The great Ari Emanuel, president of William Morris, the man. He's like, I am going to grant you a meeting with me. That's what he said. Grant you a meeting? I am going to grant you a meeting with me.

• 46:03Terry Crews?

  He said, would you like it to be at my home? Or we can meet at the Four Seasons? I was like, you know, I'm not going to your house. Let's meet at the hotel. So he sits there, he comes in, he's like talking, oh man, I juice, do you juice? I'm going, we really gonna talk about juice right now? Okay. I said, look, I pulled out a letter. I pulled out a letter he wrote that said, Mel Gibson should be blacklisted from Hollywood. Why? Because of anti-Semitic remarks. He should never work again. What I did, I took that same letter, I crossed out Mel Gibson, put Adam Vinnet, his agent, crossed out anti-Semitic remarks, and I put sexual assault. And I said, read that, now you know what you have to do.

• 46:48Terry Crews?

  He said, it's different.

• 46:52Terry Crews?

  So what's, what's, what's different about it?

• 46:56Terry Crews?

  Well, you know, I said, first of all, anti-Semitic remarks, as reprehensible as they may be, are not legal. Sexual assault is a crime, punishable by law. What he did to me, you go to jail for.

• 47:13Terry Crews?

  He was like, look, okay, what we're gonna do? He's gonna lose his title, and we're gonna suspend him for thirty days. Is that good enough for you?

• 47:25Terry Crews?

  I said, wait a minute, why are you asking me what's good enough for me? I said, first of all, I said, it's not my job to tell you how to police your people. Yeah. I said, dude, I said, he has to go. You cannot do this to a client and go back to work. I am accepting nothing less than his dismissal.

• 47:47Terry Crews?

  Mr. Ari Emanuel. And he said, "Do what you gotta do, Terry." Wow. And that was started our year saga of courtrooms. And then they they went public and said that I basically tried to take advantage of the Me Too movement and piggyback on this movement that real women had been really molested. And they protected him. They stood by him. They were like, "He did nothing wrong." We went into all this hoopla. And finally, it all hit the fan because more people started coming forward. Oh, wow. More people. And they just kept, they kept, "Oh, we just found this out." You knew this shit from the beginning. Right.

• 48:33Terry Crews?

  And so you just wanted to play me out. And listen, I have big time stars. Big time people came to me and they said, "Terry, they told me not to work with you." Wow. Terry, they told me not to do. They were planting wrong sto- They had stories planted about me and prostitutes in Monaco and the whole thing. Ready to go to all the press. And that was my second honeymoon. And I was like, "No, no." So what I did, I just went in. I put all their stuff and put it out myself. Wow. And I went vocal. I went public. I went, see, because this kind of thing, you gotta call out a heckler. You understand what I mean? Yeah, yeah. When these guys get mean, they get, these people who want to abuse, they pray for your silence. Hmm. Silence is violence, man. They pray you never tell. Hmm.

• 49:18Terry Crews?

  But what I did, I went on a tour. I went on Dr. Phil. I was on Megyn Kelly. I was on every talk show, everywhere. Naming names. They were like, "Chee."

• 49:31Terry Crews?

  To the point where they couldn't, they couldn't stand it. I mean, their own clients had to be like, "What's going on here, man?" Right. And then he resigned. They gave me my money back. Because I never wanted any money. Hmm. It was, I didn't want to die. He had to go. I would accept nothing. They, they actually were talking about, well, what does he want? What does he want? They sent lawyers to do that. I walked out. I was like, I'm not playing this game. They said, what does he want? I want him gone. Well, that's not gonna happen. I said, well, then, you're not gonna get it. It ain't gonna happen.

• 50:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:03Terry Crews?

  So he agreed to leave. And there we go. And they gave me my money back. But at the same time, I had to think, oh, my God. I spent $400,000 of my own money. What is a young girl gonna do?

• 50:16Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Who doesn't have the funds, the resources?

• 50:19Terry Crews?

  What young girl wants to be in Hollywood? Get off the bus? She's trying to do it. She gets molested. She gets raped by her agent, nonetheless. What's she gonna do?

• 50:29Lewis Howes?

  Not much.

• 50:30Terry Crews?

  Nothing.

• 50:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:31Terry Crews?

  And I said, damn it. This has gotta stop. This is a thing where we have to, as men. It's our job. And, and this is how, this is, I understand my boundaries, Louis. I, I am not here to talk about the white man. I'm not. I'm not here to be like, what, but, but what about, what about this guy? I'm not here, I'm talking about me. Listen, black men need to hold other black men accountable. Men need to hold other men accountable. Americans need to hold other Americans accountable. See, you see how that boundary keeps working? It might grow, it might go big. Some people were like, well, what about, uh, uh, uh, cause I talk about my community. And they'll say, they'll say, well, what about Catholics? I, I'm not Catholic.

• 51:16Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 51:17Terry Crews?

  I got nothing to say about that. But Catholics need to hold other Catholics accountable. You understand what I mean? What's happened is, it's the people you're next to. It's your community. Hey, man, if you live in Greenwich, Connecticut, you have to hold other Greenwich, Connecticut citizens accountable. And now, this is what they, well, what about toxic femininity? And I heard that all the time. And I'm like, hey, man, I'll leave that to, so some woman can have her own conference on that.

• 51:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 51:46Terry Crews?

  But I'm not, I can't speak for them.

• 51:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I'm, I'm curious about, um, What do you think about forgiveness through toxic masculinity? When someone has done something to you that you feel is wrong? And is wrong, illegal, or whether it's illegal or not illegal, you feel is wrong.

• 52:02Terry Crews?

  Yes.

• 52:03Lewis Howes?

  Just in the way your wife forgave you.

• 52:06Terry Crews?

  Yup.

• 52:06Lewis Howes?

  Because you took certain, you took accountability, you took certain actions. Maybe or maybe not, she wouldn't have forgiven you, but she did, and you're here now together. What's your view on forgiving toxic men or toxic actions that men have taken in the past? But are working to improve? And I don't know anything about the agent and what he's doing right now, but how do you, in your own heart, feel about forgiveness when people have done something wrong to you?

• 52:35Terry Crews?

  First of all, forgiveness is a requirement. I remember when Donald Sterling did all his thing. I went on a press tour. I was doing a press tour for Blended. And that whole Donald Sterling thing was going on, and I said, "We need to forgive Donald Sterling." You can look it up on YouTube right now.

• 52:54Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 52:55Terry Crews?

  And black people were like, "Hell no." But I said, "Listen, listen. The big, big thing about forgiveness is that it's not for him."

• 53:05Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:06Terry Crews?

  Or them. It's for you. It's for you. Now, forgiveness and accountability go hand in hand. See, what people think is forgiveness means now I'm free. No, it doesn't. You, in fact, holding you accountable is a part of forgiveness. I forgive you, I let you go, I'm filing this lawsuit. You understand what I mean? Like, that's as far as forgiveness goes. I forgive you, meaning, meaning. Hey, man, you know what? I'm not gonna let anything you do affect me in a negative way. You understand what I mean? In fact, I'm gonna let it propel me to do more courageous acts to help other people.

• 53:51Terry Crews?

  I had to forgive my father, man.

• 53:53Lewis Howes?

  Was it the hardest person?

• 53:54Terry Crews?

  My youngest memory is my father hitting my mother in the face and knocking her out. Okay? I had to forgive him. But the thing is, forgiveness is great, but he expected, "Okay, so now everything's good." I'm like, "No, no, you can't come in my house and ruin my house." I mean, I actually forgave him and then blocked his number.

• 54:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:17Terry Crews?

  You see what I'm saying?

• 54:18Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 54:18Terry Crews?

  See, but that's where we're getting it mixed up. Because what happens is when a smooth, toxic guy knows how to manipulate that. Come on, baby, you forgave me, right? Let me back in. It's like, ah, you've already crossed that line. Now forgiveness is like, you know what? I forgive you, go your way. Goodbye. That's the best kind of forgiveness ever, man.

• 54:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Unless maybe, you know, would you ever bring someone back in your life? If they showed accountability for a while and you felt like it was sincere and true?

• 54:49Terry Crews?

  I've already done it.

• 54:50Lewis Howes?

  Again, just like what your wife has done, where you took the actions, you were sincere, you.

• 54:55Terry Crews?

  Let me, I have to say this, it's wild because I have a really good friend who I could say betrayed me.

• 55:03Terry Crews?

  And he literally worked his way back.

• 55:07Terry Crews?

  And now we're back again.

• 55:08Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 55:09Terry Crews?

  I'm telling you, it's so amazing. My wife will tell you. She, we went through the whole thing, straight betrayal. And I was like, what? And he was really, really apologetic, really sorry. And he was really accountable. And let me tell you, now he's right back. In fact, because of this, because of what we went through.

• 55:32Lewis Howes?

  Plus even more.

• 55:33Terry Crews?

  We're, right, right. You see what I mean? We're closer than ever.

• 55:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 55:37Terry Crews?

  And we talk about this stuff. And before it was an image and things he was covering. And now there's nothing there. Now we're closer.

• 55:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:48Terry Crews?

  We're actually intimate, you know what I mean? And let me tell you, my wife and I? Way closer than we were before. And what I mean, man, I could look in her eyes, she looks at mine. And we go, oh, now, listen, I would say if there's a way to not go through what we went through.

• 56:06Lewis Howes?

  That's the best way.

• 56:07Terry Crews?

  Do it. You know what I mean? Do it. I would never, ever recommend that. Because let me tell you, it was hell. It was hell.

• 56:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 56:16Terry Crews?

  To come back. I mean, there were times I would come home and she'd be in the kitchen just crying. Just standing there. And I knew, you know, there's nothing worse than knowing you did that.

• 56:32Terry Crews?

  And I didn't even, I wouldn't even have to ask. I would just come over.

• 56:37Terry Crews?

  Give her a hug, if she wanted one. I would say, can I hug you? We just hugged. And it's about empathy, man. And this is, again, with this apology thing. You know, people feel like, well, I said it once and I don't have to apologize again, but you, you, that's saying you'll never be wrong.

• 56:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 56:54Terry Crews?

  You always have to be open and forgiveness is necessary. Forgive, forgive, forgive. It's, I have to forgive in the morning and you forgive at night.

• 57:05Lewis Howes?

  How did you learn to forgive yourself for twenty plus years or thirty years or whatever it is of, of doing things that you felt like you betrayed yourself for? And other people?

• 57:16Terry Crews?

  That came from doing a lot of, from reading Brené Brown and her. I mean, her dealings with Shane.

• 57:25Lewis Howes?

  She's amazing.

• 57:26Terry Crews?

  Dude, it just, it, it literally told me, wait a minute, man. You are not.

• 57:34Terry Crews?

  Evil. You see what I mean? Because that's the way you forgive yourself. Yeah, yeah, wait, because you can't forgive yourself as long as you think you're evil.

• 57:42Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 57:42Terry Crews?

  You know what I mean? You can't. It's impossible. As the I am evil person, there's no forgiveness. But when you realize, no, I did something wrong. I did bad things. I don't do them anymore.

• 57:55Terry Crews?

  Now you can forgive yourself. Now you can start them. I don't, I don't do that anymore. I don't watch porn anymore. I don't do these things anymore. In fact, I'm working against these things. In fact, I am correcting these things. In fact, because of my vulnerability and because of my transparency. My God, it's like I'm having a therapy session right now.

• 58:19Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 58:19Terry Crews?

  As we talk.

• 58:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 58:21Terry Crews?

  And this makes me, it reminds me, it was like, Terry. Hey, man, you're making right moves now. Yeah. You know what I mean? You're doing the right thing now. Mm-hmm. And it's so funny, because you can relate it to almost like food. People eat emotionally. You eat when you feel bad. Yeah. And you might not be hungry, you might not be there, but you go, oh. And then all of a sudden, you know, the bigger you get, the worse you feel. And you just say, this is who I am. And then all of a sudden, you are in an unhealthy state and you just decide, this is me, this is the way I am. And it's like, no, it's not. No, it's not, because there is an ideal weight. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? You, you, I don't, I have never fat shamed or anything. I don't, I don't believe in it. But everyone should have an ideal weight.

• 59:06Terry Crews?

  There's an ideal weight for you that's healthy. Yeah. And if you don't know it, you probably have a problem. You know what I mean? Uh, and that's the way I'm, I'm gauging my thing, you know? And I look at this thing as, hey, man, when you look at your own life, and it's constant introspection. Mm-hmm. Constant correction, constant like, do it right, do it right. Wait a minute, why do you feel this way? I'm, I've been so mindful lately because there are times when I'm, I'm sitting around and I'm like, why am I irritated? Why am I irritated by something? There's, and then I realized there was something I said or something I feel. Before I go into any, any interview, I have to check my own heart. Yeah. There's times I'm, I might be mad at my wife and I take it out on somebody in the interview. Right. You know what I mean?

• 59:50Terry Crews?

  And you go, whoa, why did I say? Man, dude, you have no idea how deep you go. That's the deal. People are like, ah, no, I don't, no, no. Listen, and this is another thing I know. The knowledge that I am capable of unspeakable evil means I can counteract it. Yeah. But when you just think, no, man, I, I would never do something like that. Don't ever say anything like that. I would nev-, because, look, the whole country of Germany thought, we would never do that. Right. Hey, man, there was a time when, when I was a kid, we were riding the back of flatbed trucks on the freeway at 70 miles an hour and waved at the cops and the cops waved back. Hey, hey!

• 1:00:33Terry Crews?

  Until kids started dying on the freeway. Like. Maybe we should buckle up. Yeah, and there was a time where everybody just accepted, like, you can drive in the back of a flatbed truck on freeway.

• 1:00:45Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 1:00:46Terry Crews?

  You can do that, but you can't do that.

• 1:00:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:49Terry Crews?

  And those things just, we think we know, but I, I think we're just right now on the cusp of realizing who we are. Look at any eighties comedy. It's cringe-worthy, dude.

• 1:01:01Lewis Howes?

  It is bad.

• 1:01:01Terry Crews?

  It hurts. You laughed back in the day. I laughed.

• 1:01:05Lewis Howes?

  It was funny, man.

• 1:01:05Terry Crews?

  We were all like, ha, ha, ha, and you laughed. You look at it now like, oh, my God.

• 1:01:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:09Terry Crews?

  Can't believe I laughed at that.

• 1:01:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Yeah. I want to respect your time, because I know you got to leave.

• 1:01:13Terry Crews?

  I know, I got, I can talk.

• 1:01:15Lewis Howes?

  I love your stories, and I have like so many questions that I haven't even.

• 1:01:18Terry Crews?

  I know, I'm just letting them go.

• 1:01:19Lewis Howes?

  Next, next, next year, we're gonna come back on.

• 1:01:22Terry Crews?

  Yeah, we got more to do.

• 1:01:23Lewis Howes?

  I want to ask you a few final questions, and I'm gonna ask you to keep them brief, so I can respect your time. You're good. I, I will listen to you for hours, man.

• 1:01:30Terry Crews?

  I know, I know.

• 1:01:31Lewis Howes?

  I wish this was two hours.

• 1:01:32Terry Crews?

  Damn it.

• 1:01:32Lewis Howes?

  You got another interview.

• 1:01:33Terry Crews?

  Believe me, I know, I know.

• 1:01:34Lewis Howes?

  One question is, what is it about your wife you're most grateful for?

• 1:01:41Terry Crews?

  Oh, we gotta be, ooh, gotta be brief with this one.

• 1:01:43Lewis Howes?

  Go on for an hour on this.

• 1:01:44Terry Crews?

  Yeah. You know what? I guess the thing I'm most grateful for is her friendship. It's her friendship. Even if we would have been divorced, she still would have been my friend. Like, she still cared. She still, this, there's nothing like having a person on earth that wants to see you win. In every way.

• 1:02:09Lewis Howes?

  That's amazing.

• 1:02:09Terry Crews?

  Like, come here, come here, Terry, come here, come here, let me get that out your eye. Let me, okay, uh huh, uh huh, you look great.

• 1:02:15Lewis Howes?

  Checking your jacket.

• 1:02:16Terry Crews?

  Yeah, you see what I mean? Like, you see, she's like, no, straight in the back, back.

• 1:02:21Terry Crews?

  This is why you, you don't have eyes in the back of your head, because you need somebody to watch you and to check you and to make sure you're right, man. She's my friend, dude. Like, that is the ultimate.

• 1:02:35Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. That's cool. This is a question I ask everyone at the end. It's called the three truths. You've got a lot of truths.

• 1:02:41Terry Crews?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:42Lewis Howes?

  And imagine it's your last day on earth many years from now. You get to pick the day, you get to pick the year, but at one point, you gotta go. Let's just say hypothetical, right? And you've done everything you wanna do. You've achieved every dream. You've had the most incredible marriage, great kids. Everything you wanna accomplish, it's happened. The impact you wanna make in the world, it's happened. The man you wanna become, you've become it.

• 1:03:07Terry Crews?

  Whew, that's a great day.

• 1:03:09Lewis Howes?

  It's happening.

• 1:03:11Lewis Howes?

  But for whatever reason, all your work and your interviews and your content and your, you know, your movies, you gotta take them all with you. So no one has access to them anymore. They just have memories of you. And you get to leave, you get to, a piece of paper and a pen to write down three things you know to be true about all your experiences in life. All your lessons, the challenges, the love. And this is what the world would remember you by, these three truths. What would you say are your three lessons or three truths?

• 1:03:45Terry Crews?

  Number one is accountability. I would like to know that I taught, I gave people an example of what being accountable looks like. That's a value that is extremely important to me. The other truth is love. I mean, love, I say this before and I'll say it again, it's impossible to, to love someone and control them at the same time. Most of these bad things we're talking about are attempts for people in power to control other people.

• 1:04:26Terry Crews?

  And so that's where every abuse occurs because you're trying to control what people think. I was trying to control my wife by not telling her the truth. But love gives you all the options and then you get to pick. And if my wife loves me, like if I kept her in a cage in the basement, that's control. That's not love.

• 1:04:49Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:04:50Terry Crews?

  But when she can come and go freely and she comes home because she wants to be with me, that's love.

• 1:04:57Terry Crews?

  Let's see, and the third thing.

• 1:05:02Terry Crews?

  I would say creativity.

• 1:05:03Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:04Terry Crews?

  Creativity. You can do it all. Those, my thing is, I never saw, once I cracked that egg on the ins- inside of me, like the, the, the image and who I was became one person. I could do anything.

• 1:05:22Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:05:23Terry Crews?

  There was no rules. Go, host, act. Create a furniture line. Paint. Do whatever. There's no rules. There's nobody to tell you, hey, man, that's not what a man does. No, no, no. Creativity works like do whatever you want. Whatever your vision sees. In fact, as far as you can take it. Pablo Picasso said, you know, whatever you can imagine is real. That kind of creativity, man. That's the, to me, those three things, man. They can say, man, Terry did that. Those, that's what I want. When you see all the stuff that he, he went for, he tried. This is a kid from Flint, Michigan, man. I never, never was supposed to get this.

• 1:06:08Terry Crews?

  People are still shocked that I'm here. I shocked myself.

• 1:06:14Terry Crews?

  But it's through creativity.

• 1:06:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, man, those are powerful truths. Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you, Terry, for your incredible heart. A lot of people see you as this big, strong guy and you, you're probably the most attractive man I've met, but you're physically fit.

• 1:06:30Terry Crews?

  Right, exactly.

• 1:06:31Lewis Howes?

  Your physical strength is impressive, but your, your heart strength is really what's inspiring to me. And I think to so many people that, that you're willing to continue to use your platform for a place of service and impact. I think that's, for me, a true measure of a man is someone who's in service. And I honor and recognize that in you and acknowledge you for. All you do to be accountable for yourself. You know, I know, we've talked before, I've made tons of mistakes in my life and I'm not perfect and I'm constantly owning up to that accountability personally. And for you to lead the way, it's really inspiring for me and so many men and women in the world. So I acknowledge you, my man. I hope we get to do more interviews in the future and dive in.

• 1:07:15Lewis Howes?

  Cause we didn't even talk about your art, your creativity.

• 1:07:17Terry Crews?

  Oh, we got more, yeah, I got a whole, I got a whole deal on that.

• 1:07:20Lewis Howes?

  Barry's one of the best artists I've ever met. But right now, you can get the book, Manhood. Make sure you guys go pick this up. Uh, get it for yourself, get it for a man in your life. And for women, if you're living with a man, How to Understand Men Better. This is a great book. Check this out. You're on Brooklyn Nine-Nine. Is it out right now? You're filming right now and it's out?

• 1:07:38Terry Crews?

  We're filming now.

• 1:07:39Lewis Howes?

  And it's, yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:39Terry Crews?

  And it's out. And I'm hosting America's Got Talent.

• 1:07:42Lewis Howes?

  America's Got Talent is huge, man. Congrats on that.

• 1:07:44Terry Crews?

  Huge.

• 1:07:45Lewis Howes?

  I've been watching your stories and everything. It looks so inspiring, man.

• 1:07:47Terry Crews?

  It is, it's so great, man. I was baked for that show, dude.

• 1:07:50Lewis Howes?

  You are the perfect host, dude. You're freaking like, it's unbelievable. What else, how else can we support you right now? We can follow you on Instagram?

• 1:07:58Terry Crews?

  Yes, just at Terry Crews, Instagram, at Terry Crews on Twitter, Facebook, uh, you know, Terry Crews. So, and you know, I'm just always doing stuff. Oh, I have a children's book coming out that I illustrated.

• 1:08:10Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:08:10Terry Crews?

  Yes. It's literally coming out next month. We, we are getting the whole thing together. It's self-published, it's called Come Find Me. And it's an augmented reality book where it's a first time reader. It's in Portuguese, English and Spanish. And, and you open it up, you have an app, you can put the phone on, or your iPad on the pictures and the characters pop right out of the book. We are going all out.

• 1:08:34Lewis Howes?

  Come Find Me, where can we get, can we preorder that on Amazon?

• 1:08:37Terry Crews?

  Actually, it's ComeFindMeBook.com.

• 1:08:39Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:08:40Terry Crews?

  It's literally coming out next month, so.

• 1:08:42Lewis Howes?

  Sweet.

• 1:08:43Terry Crews?

  We're lining it all up, man. It's my first children's book. But let me tell you, this is the thing. What broke my heart more than anything was when Bill Cosby went down. I grew up on Little Bill, that Albert, the whole thing. And I said, man, now that wiped out the whole legacy. I knew something had to replace that.

• 1:09:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:02Terry Crews?

  And I created this book. And it's two characters, Marcus and Anthony, two little young African-American boys, who are based on real people. I co-wrote it with my friend Ken Harvey, who was a pro football player.

• 1:09:16Lewis Howes?

  Right, sure.

• 1:09:17Terry Crews?

  And his kids are all grown. They have master's degrees, the whole thing. And they're wonderful kids, but they're based on them as they were little kids.

• 1:09:23Lewis Howes?

  That's cool, man. Come find me. We'll link it up, we'll promote it out. Thirty seconds or less. Final question, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:09:33Terry Crews?

  My definition of greatness is vulnerability.

• 1:09:38Terry Crews?

  Because vulnerability, you have no courage without vulnerability. And there's no way you can be great until you can hear it and be vulnerable. So that's my definition.

• 1:09:49Lewis Howes?

  Terry Crews, you're a legend, man. Appreciate you, brother. Love you, man. Thank you, brother.

• 1:09:52Terry Crews?

  You got it, man. You got it.

• 1:09:53Lewis Howes?

  Thank you. It's amazing.

• 1:09:58Lewis Howes?

  And there you have it, my friends. I hope you enjoyed this one. Such a powerful interview. I only asked like four or five questions and Terry just went and shared stories like a madman. I love it. His passion, his enthusiasm, his ability to connect and his creativity. The guy has done so much over his career and he is just getting started. Make sure to follow him over on Instagram. Make sure to follow the shows, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, America's Got Talent. Make sure to let him know that you enjoyed this. Tag him on your Instagram stories to let him see that you're listening to this episode as well. And the link to send your friends is lewishouse.com/760. Again, I hope you guys enjoyed this one. And remember, it doesn't matter what you've gone through in your past.

• 1:10:43Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't matter what you're going through right now. You can always make a decision in this moment to change your life forever, to do something powerful with your life, to take one step in a different direction towards the vision of your dreams. I believe in you. I've got your back. And as always, you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.