‘Disclosure’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre pour themselves a glass of 1991 Pahlmeyer Chardonnay as they rewatch the spicy 1994 corporate thriller ‘Disclosure,’ starring Michael Douglas, Demi Moore, and Donald Sutherland. FOR TICKETS TO THE LIVE DEN OF THIEVES TAPING IN LOS ANGELES ON DEC 16th - CLICK HERE Watch this episode on our Ringer Movies YouTube channel! Producer: Craig Horlbeck Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  What's happening? It's Todd McShay and I'm back with a new home and a new show at The Ringer and Spotify. The McShay Show. It's a video and audio podcast coming to you year round with all my NFL draft information, big boards, mock drafts and player movement. Plus, I'll be chatting with some of my best friends in football, including some of your favorite football analysts. During the week, we'll have episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays that'll include discussions about my player rankings, who's rising, who's falling, and who your NFL team should be keeping an eye on. Plus, we'll be reacting each week to the college football playoff polls and giving you previews and picks for each Saturday slate. In addition, I'll have episodes on Saturday nights with my immediate reaction to the full

• 0:44Speaker 00

  day in college football every week. So if you love the college game, the NFL, the draft, or all of it like me, make sure to like, follow, subscribe, and get ready for The McShay Show on The Ringer, Spotify, and wherever you watch or listen to podcasts.

• 1:02Speaker 01

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• 2:02Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to by Ethos. As a parent, life insurance feels like a no brainer. It just gives me peace of mind knowing my family will be taken care of. And Ethos makes getting it fast and easy. Apply online in minutes. Get up to 3 million in coverage with no medical exam, just a few simple health questions. Take 10 minutes to get covered today with life insurance through Ethos. Get your free quote at ethos.com/rewatch. That is E T H O S dot com slash rewatch. Application times may vary. Rates may vary.

• 2:36Bill Simmons?

  The Rewatchables, brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network.

• 2:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41Bill Simmons?

  You can find group chat on the Ringer MBA Show with Waz. You can find Higher Learning.

• 2:46Speaker 03

  On fire right now on Higher Learning.

• 2:48Bill Simmons?

  On fire? Is that what the kids are saying?

• 2:50Speaker 03

  That's what the kids are saying. We're on fire.

• 2:51Bill Simmons?

  Higher Learning, Ringer Verse with Van Lathan. Exciting news for us on the Rewatchables. We're partnering up with Lionsgate. We've already done Den of Thieves as a pod. We're doing it again because the sequel's coming out this winter. And we have space for a very limited number of listeners to join us for an intimate live show on December 16th in downtown Los Angeles. Vance is going to be involved. Space is limited, so if you don't get a ticket, don't worry. We'll do more big shows, bigger audience shows next year. But for now, if you live in LA and you're free next Monday, December 16th, register now at bit.ly/rewatchablesden while space permits, or just click the link in this episode's description. Hope to see you there. There might not be another Rewatchables episode after this week because we're about to do Disclosure.

• 3:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:35Bill Simmons?

  And I don't know what the hell is going to happen, but it's next.

• 4:14Bill Simmons?

  Alright, so.

• 4:18Bill Simmons?

  I don't know why Three Guys are doing this movie. I just want to acknowledge it coming out of the gate. It's a corporate intrigue erotic thriller.

• 4:24Speaker 03

  We don't have to do that anymore. We don't have to.

• 4:27Bill Simmons?

  Oh, in Trump's America, we're fine? No, the reason we're doing this is because this is now one of the funniest movies of the 90s. I have no idea how to even explain how this movie happened. I saw it in the theater. I was excited to see it in the theater. It did really well in the box office. And then the years start passing and the internet forms in the shape and habits change and people change. And now this movie is like, how the fuck did this happen? Waz, you suggested it.

• 4:51Speaker 04

  So during the pandemic, 2020, early 2021, like I was watching damn near three movies a day.

• 4:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 4:59Speaker 04

  Yeah. And between whatever your different streamers have available, sometimes you just end up on Amazon or YouTube and just rent movies. And you know, when you're renting a movie, you get to watch the trailer first. And I'm like, alright, Demi Moore, Michael Douglas.

• 5:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 5:15Speaker 04

  Okay, you know, basically a freaking. Exactly.

• 5:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 5:19Speaker 04

  And I'd never even heard of the movie before, much less seen it. So I popped it in and you know, you think you're in some sort of erotic thriller, which there's definitely a lot of elements to that in a movie, but it turns into something completely different throughout the course of it. And I just was fascinated by it as a document, honestly.

• 5:38Bill Simmons?

  Did you, what's your history of this movie, Van? How many years?

• 5:40Speaker 03

  Uh, going all the way back to, I had that scene on one of my mixtapes that I had back in the day.

• 5:46Bill Simmons?

  Oh, no.

• 5:48Speaker 03

  I had VCR mixtapes of different things and I had that scene on one of the mixtapes.

• 5:53Bill Simmons?

  Oh, no.

• 5:55Speaker 03

  So.

• 5:56Bill Simmons?

  Here we go.

• 5:57Speaker 03

  Okay, we're off. What I remember about the movie was the bait and switch that people felt when they saw it.

• 6:03Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 6:04Speaker 03

  Because Michael Douglas, a couple of years before that, had done Basic Instinct.

• 6:10Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 6:10Bill Simmons?

  And a couple of years before that, Fatal Attraction.

• 6:12Speaker 03

  So this was the third in what people thought was going to be the erotic trilogy of Michael Douglas. Those two movies have pretty outrageous sexuality throughout the whole thing. This movie doesn't.

• 6:27Speaker 04

  No.

• 6:27Speaker 03

  For one scene, it's ratcheted it up and did its reference for the rest of it. And a lot of people were like, wait a minute, what's going on? And she was smoking hot at the time.

• 6:36Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 6:36Speaker 03

  So people wanted to see Demi in this way, and they got one blistering scene of it.

• 6:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:44Speaker 03

  And then it went away, and it was about corporate espionage.

• 6:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:47Bill Simmons?

  And what the internet was not gonna look like thirty years later.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  Right.

• 6:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, this was the trilogy of Michael Douglas, the everyman with his dick getting him in trouble.

• 6:57Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 6:57Bill Simmons?

  But in the end, he's gonna get out of it.

• 6:59Speaker 03

  Right.

• 7:00Bill Simmons?

  And it turned out to be that crazy lady's fault. This is what the late eighties, nineties were like.

• 7:07Bill Simmons?

  I wrote down, it's a sexual harassment movie that's really about men's fear of the nineteen nineties, that women were starting to take their jobs, which you feel all the way through. It's about this weird, the internet's coming, what's this gonna be? I remember seeing this movie, I didn't have email for two years until after I saw this movie. So he's getting emails popping up with, from no server. I'm like, well, that, that makes sense. Digital messages.

• 7:31Speaker 03

  They were FaceTiming.

• 7:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they're FaceTiming. It's like, well, that seems realistic. And then finally with the VR stuff with the gloves, it's like, well, maybe that's where things are going.

• 7:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:41Bill Simmons?

  And then you see it now, and it's just hilarious. That scene in the hotel room has to be one of the funniest scenes in the nineties.

• 7:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's, they, they have to find a way to sort of tie a bow on the plot stuff, because I think the movie just has so much to say about so many things, whether it be, you know, technology, whether we should embrace it or fear it, um, women in the boardroom, uh, sexual harassment, sexuality, like masculine. Like, this movie has so much to say about a lot of issues, and you know.

• 8:11Bill Simmons?

  And it's trying to do it in an hour and fifty.

• 8:13Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 8:14Speaker 04

  And in the meanwhile, they had to wrap up a plot and the freaking, you know, the VR goggles, the Oculus at the end was part of that wrap up. It wasn't great, but I enjoyed it.

• 8:24Bill Simmons?

  Dan was getting, you were starting to think, what was that thing you got?

• 8:27Speaker 03

  What?

• 8:28Bill Simmons?

  The Apple goggles?

• 8:29Speaker 03

  Apple Vision Pro.

• 8:29Speaker 04

  You got the Vision Pro?

• 8:30Bill Simmons?

  Is that what the Apple Vision Pro is like? Do you just go into a virtual office and grab files?

• 8:35Speaker 03

  Well, no, but it kind of though.

• 8:37Speaker 04

  Oh, a manuel folder.

• 8:38Speaker 03

  You can, you can do different stuff. And then, you know, after a couple of minutes, your neck starts to hurt and you take it off and you're like, your girl and your dog are looking at you like, what are you doing?

• 8:46Bill Simmons?

  What just happened?

• 8:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:47Bill Simmons?

  What world were you just in?

• 8:48Speaker 03

  Um, but it's, it's so funny about how much about the internet, the movie gets wrong. I remember there's one lady and she's standing up there, oh no, it's Demi Moore. She's giving her thing and she's like, it's gonna be a place where there's gonna be no race, no gender. No, we're not even gonna think about any of those things. And then we get the internet and we obsess about those things.

• 9:10Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that's just like poor gasoline on all of it.

• 9:12Speaker 03

  Right? Like, we were gonna do all of this stuff, move files around. Nah, we wanted to play Angry Birds on our phones. That's what the internet did.

• 9:20Speaker 04

  But when you talk to people who were like, you know, technologists or whatever, at the time, they were true believers. They really thought the internet was gonna bring us closer, not have us be alienated. You know, like you could talk to somebody in Beijing from your couch in Boston. Um, and all of those things ended up being true. It's just not how we spent our time on the internet.

• 9:41Speaker 03

  Well, not in, just not in the way that we thought that they were.

• 9:43Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 9:44Speaker 03

  We, you were talking to the person in Beijing, but not to your mother. Like you're talking to the person in Moscow, but you're never in the same room with anyone. It just didn't go the way we thought it was gonna go. We thought it was gonna add to, but it replaced.

• 9:58Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 9:58Bill Simmons?

  It shifted in real time, cause I was in college in the early nineties when some people were like in the computer room, starting to email and, and we were all like, what the fuck are those people doing? Like, what? And then eventually you could get information. I remember when I was in grad school, like going to the library and you could use like Nexus, Lexus, stuff like that. Um, but when I saw this movie in 94, We didn't know what the internet was gonna be because this, the net was the other movie that came out with Sandra Bullock. That's another one where they had this vision, Hollywood had this vision of what the internet was gonna be and you would have these helpers. So net, it was Mozart's ghost. And you talk, and in this movie it had that angel. And it was like this thing was gonna help you and find you and you could navigate the world with it.

• 10:40Bill Simmons?

  And then by three years later, we had AOL and it was just like, yeah, I'm just gonna send some emails to my friends.

• 10:45Speaker 03

  It's funny though, but like Apple's like, Apple intelligence thing, that's the whole thing. It's like you have an assistant with you that's just kind of following you around.

• 10:54Bill Simmons?

  Siri. Well, I wrote down, so the movie, the 2024 internet things, it kind of gets right. Angel is basically Siri. Email is basically email.

• 11:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:04Bill Simmons?

  The video calls are now Zoom and the VR is like, actually what the metaverse is, is just the metaverse is way more interesting.

• 11:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:11Bill Simmons?

  I think.

• 11:11Speaker 03

  Think it wasn't the technology that they got wrong. It was the application. It was how we would respond to it.

• 11:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 11:20Speaker 03

  Right? And the way that we responded to it was the way humans respond to things, which is the simplest, pettiest way. Like what could we use it for? How could it make our lives easier? How can it? But in very small ways, like literally the whole thing became, do you got games on your phone? Like, I mean, that's, and so this was, but I think, I would watch futures from the past. And I watched this one guy from like 1959 and he was, it's in black and white. He says, one day there's gonna be a device, it's gonna be in your pocket. And you're gonna be able to do all your banking, book all your travel.

• 11:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 11:58Speaker 03

  Do all your stuff from that device. It's like in 1959, he's saying this, and it seems like such a new world. And you have that device now and you're on Pornhub.

• 12:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 12:09Speaker 03

  You know what I mean? It's just like you have that device.

• 12:11Bill Simmons?

  You're on Pornhub watching this movie.

• 12:13Speaker 04

  Exactly. Here's the thing though, um, that I think a lot of people, you know, mention when they talk about basically how the internet has developed. Like, I think when it was at its best is when there was less and less people on it, right? Where it's just like these few like niche groups, you go on your forum. You talk about your top five rappers on Questlove's, you know, rap forum.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Okay, player.com.

• 12:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, and and keep it pushing, right? It wasn't this fraught thing, but then like the more and more people, the more ubiquitous the internet became, the worse it got. Like, that's just the reality of everything.

• 12:47Bill Simmons?

  Well, this movie came out thirty years ago.

• 12:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's amazing.

• 12:50Bill Simmons?

  And in some ways, it feels like a hundred years ago. And then in other ways, like, I don't know, this movie, this was a big deal when it came out. It was a big deal that Demi Moore and Michael Douglas were in a movie together. It was during that crazy Michael Douglas run where he, which we've talked about before, but Romance in the Stone, one and two, Wall Street, Fatal Attraction, Black Rain, War of the Roses, Basic Instinct, uh, this movie, American President, Ghost in the Darkness, The Game. He's probably the most bankable, picking scripts actor we had. I don't think he was the best actor we had, but I think he had the best batting average of big market movies.

• 13:25Speaker 03

  He was able to develop such unique chemistry with every single female on screen.

• 13:31Bill Simmons?

  That's the thing. That was the superpower. You're right.

• 13:34Speaker 03

  He was able to give you a completely different movie based upon the, he was a, in the American President, he's this charming, affable, vulnerable, most powerful man in the world.

• 13:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  And in this, and in Fatal Attraction, he is completely overwhelmed by the woman, as he kind of is in this one.

• 14:00Bill Simmons?

  In Basic Instinct, he's Shooter.

• 14:02Speaker 03

  He's Shooter. He's like, like a weird, you don't know if you should be.

• 14:07Bill Simmons?

  The dark side.

• 14:08Speaker 03

  Type of, type of guy.

• 14:08Bill Simmons?

  But he's got the dark side in this movie because she alludes to it. And then in one of the depositions, talks about like vibrators, all this stuff they did. And she's like, I know, I know, Tom. I know he, I know he keeps secrets.

• 14:21Speaker 04

  That's one of my favorite parts of the early part of the movie. It's like the first scene is him with his family. And it's like, he is Mr. Dad.

• 14:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's the most generic family scene you could have.

• 14:32Speaker 04

  He even makes a joke about like, oh, you didn't get the memo, I was being dad of the year or whatever. He makes a joke about it. And as soon as he gets to the office, like.

• 14:40Speaker 03

  Don't worry, folks. I'm Michael Douglas. I'm still horny.

• 14:42Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 14:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it's like, I'm dad of the year. I'm Mr. Wholesome, but I'm still, I still got that.

• 14:47Bill Simmons?

  Well, they have to bring Dennis Miller into it to be like, this guy's got more ass than a rental car.

• 14:52Speaker 03

  But I noticed that, but it was even the slight pat on the butt of the secretary.

• 14:59Bill Simmons?

  Which is like, one of the craziest moments of the movie. Where it's like, oh my god.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  Right.

• 15:03Bill Simmons?

  You can't do that.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  And this is kind of like the Mad Men thing. When you would watch Mad Men back in the day.

• 15:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 15:10Speaker 03

  There, there's, guys would watch Mad Men and there were, there was two types of dudes that would watch it. One type of dude would watch Mad Men and he would be like, damn, I can't believe they were able to do that. And the other guy would be like.

• 15:21Bill Simmons?

  Bring that back.

• 15:24Speaker 03

  Like, look how good we had it. So.

• 15:26Bill Simmons?

  We could drink in the office at two o'clock.

• 15:28Speaker 03

  Drink and do it and smoke and get in, we had voluptuous women that we could say whatever we wanted to. This was the days. But you know, when you're watching the film that that's gonna come back to bite him in the ass at some point and it literally does.

• 15:43Bill Simmons?

  And one of the reasons this movie is so funny is they circled around to the end where at the end, the assistant slaps him and it's like, oh, who thought that was a good idea? There's a lot of moments where you're just like, wow. Who thought that was a good idea? But that was the mid 90s. To me more.

• 16:00Bill Simmons?

  So the 90s resurgence she has, which starts with Ghost, she's in A Few Good Men, Decent Proposal, and then this movie.

• 16:10Speaker 03

  You call it a resurgence?

• 16:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, cuz she, after St. Elmo's Fire.

• 16:14Speaker 03

  I think it's a resurgence.

• 16:15Bill Simmons?

  No, it's saying, she was big in the mid 80s and then she had some issues. But you look at her late 80s IMDB, it's pretty rough.

• 16:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:22Bill Simmons?

  Ghost is the comeback. And then she, she, by the time this movie comes out, she's probably the most bankable actress we had. What's weird is it's the peak. Cuz after this, she has Scarlet Letter now and then, Striptease and The Juror and it's over. So this was the peak.

• 16:39Bill Simmons?

  She's never looked better in a movie. She looks unbelievable in this movie. And she's really believable, I think, as the, as the, you know, calculating office temptress. It's just.

• 16:51Speaker 04

  It's crazy. It, cause like when you look at her in the film, it's like, alright, this is like a professional woman. And she has like a kind of inviting sort of nature to her. But then, once this woman starts talking, you realize you're dealing with a stone killer.

• 17:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 17:07Speaker 04

  And that just doesn't let up the entire movie. And it's not a way that I'm used to thinking about Demi Moore. Not deploying her like ferocity in that way. But she was just like, yeah, I got these people in my sights and I'm gonna kill them. And she goes about the whole movie, almost pulls it off. But that's what I was struck by. I was like, oh, you know, this is a nice lady. You know, nice lady in a, you know, Kamala Harris sort of outfit, right? And like, no, she's a, she's an assassin.

• 17:35Bill Simmons?

  Well, that's what he had with Basic Instinct, too.

• 17:37Speaker 03

  Right, reference there. So, so it, it, they, uh, Demi, first, okay, so you said she never looked better in the movie. It's facts. Because I watched this on Prime Video and then afterwards it suggested striptease. And just for research purposes, I had to revisit it.

• 17:59Bill Simmons?

  Of course.

• 17:59Speaker 03

  So I revisited it.

• 18:00Bill Simmons?

  Check Kalik was fine.

• 18:01Speaker 03

  It goes Kalik, well, come on, man. Let, let, let the boys play, okay? Let the boys play. Um, and this is her at her, you know, striptease, she got in super great shape and it was a big deal, $12 million. She's gonna be new. This is her at her absolute, the absolute peak of, oh my God, what a ridiculously beautiful creature. The problem that Demi Moore had is that the roles that she picked after this, she started trying to prove different things.

• 18:26Speaker 04

  Serious, yeah.

• 18:27Speaker 03

  She started trying to prove different stuff. And then when the, where was it? The, you said, is it the scarlet lube or the crucible or something like that?

• 18:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 18:35Speaker 03

  She was going for the Oscar. They were doing all of that stuff. She never quite got there. Oddly, she might get there now, having sort of a Demi Moore resurgence as we talk about it now, with the substance and some other things. She's kind of back a little bit.

• 18:47Bill Simmons?

  And that's.

• 18:48Speaker 04

  Back a little bit.

• 18:48Bill Simmons?

  She has two lines in the first four episodes of Landman, but it's somehow second in the opening credits.

• 18:54Speaker 03

  That's why when Bill asked, like, she was on top of my mind because of, you know, the movie that's doing pretty well commercially. Landman. And then I had just watched her Hot Ones interview. Where she just eats these wings and she's like making fun of the dude the entire time. And I'm just like, wow, like. This is a really charismatic actress. Who, you know, she's like sixty two or something now, who like, you know, when they get to be that age, Hollywood kind of just. Alright granny, we're taking you to the side door type of thing, but like she's back in a major way. And I'm like, we need more of this.

• 19:28Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, she. So St. Elmo's, I, I had this as my hottest take, I'll just do it now. I think my favorite parts of hers were the St. Elmo's fire part in this part. Because I think they both leaned into the side that was really unique to her. Right? She's. There, there was a sexuality to her, the not a like Kathleen Turner had it, Sharon Stone had it, but there weren't a lot of people. That had it. And it was almost like she didn't want to unleash it in too many movies. Then when like Striptease is like a terrible movie, like.

• 19:54Speaker 03

  So that's so.

• 19:54Bill Simmons?

  That's the thing.

• 19:55Speaker 03

  Striptease was.

• 19:56Bill Simmons?

  It's like a weird nudity comedy. I don't even know what it is.

• 19:59Speaker 03

  It was kind of the worst version of. Utilizing someone's sexuality in the movie. The movie was a comedy. There was no actual heat to the movie. The nudity itself seemed like a stunt.

• 20:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, like.

• 20:15Speaker 03

  Like.

• 20:15Bill Simmons?

  Shoehorning it in.

• 20:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, come to see you're nude and there's not much movie left. Underrated film of hers that I really enjoyed, we, you left out a few good men that was in, did you say a few good men?

• 20:25Bill Simmons?

  I said it earlier, yeah, but.

• 20:26Speaker 03

  Um, but like people, G I Jane was a very.

• 20:30Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 20:31Speaker 03

  Uh. Polarizing movie at that time. But that also was a fantastic use of her physicality. And her charisma, because in that role, she was, she carried the entire movie. Early Viggo Mortensen, yeah.

• 20:46Bill Simmons?

  She's great in About Last Night.

• 20:50Bill Simmons?

  There's movies that I think if, like, if you're going sliding doors, movies she could have been in that she would have been awesome in. I think she would have been awesome in both Terminators. Like if she'd been in Terminator one, she'd been the perfect age. Terminator two, I think she would have gotten jacked like Linda Hamilton did. There's Kathleen Turner parts I think she would have been really good in. I think she would have been good in Romance in the Stone. Um, I think she would have been good in War of the Roses. So, yeah, you look at her IMDb and it's in a weird way like. A Few Good Men, I think, is probably her worst performance in a great movie because that Joe Galloway part is just a mess.

• 21:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's tough. And it's crazy because her public life, her like, she's such a big tabloid figure in terms of like who she's dating and then there's the Ashton Kutcher. She's dating a younger guy and that's like so much of the noise and the tabloid fodder around her is about her.

• 21:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that was the two, that's from the 2000s became.

• 21:42Speaker 03

  That was her, that was later on, yeah, that was her relevance.

• 21:44Bill Simmons?

  Well, I mean, when she started dating Bruce Willis, that was about as A-listy as it got for a celebrity couple until we had Brad and Angelina. I really liked her, I think, I think her and Douglas together, it made sense in the Douglas arc. Douglas was with, you know, Kathleen Turner, strong, confident, beautiful, great actress. Glenn Close, crazy, confident actor who actually turns out to be crazy in the movie. Sharon Stone, all time irrational confidence performance, but he was always at his best, kind of playing off really strong actors like that.

• 22:22Bill Simmons?

  But what was this movie actually about, I think is the real question? Because it's not a sexual harassment movie, it's actually this corporate intrigue thing.

• 22:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:32Bill Simmons?

  And I think I had to see it like five times to understand what the plot actually was. And I'm still not positive I understand it.

• 22:37Speaker 04

  I think Barry Levinson, the director, producer, extraordinary, who's like, I didn't realize he's like produced. Like, he hasn't directed anything that's been like of any relevance, of like major relevance, pretty much since this. But like, he's produced a lot of like TV and like TV movies that I've enjoyed. And he does, it feels like he has opinions about corporate culture, these sort of titans of industry and what they're about. And what's funny is like when I hear Van. Talk about like the platitudes that Demise Moore is using at this like sort of shareholders meeting.

• 23:15Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 23:15Speaker 04

  Where she's talking about this product and it's like it's gonna bring humanity together and all of these platitudes. And I think what the message of the movie is like, it's all crap. Um, these people are just like the robber barons before them. They just wanna make money. There's nothing different about this industry, but like when you hear some of the soaring rhetoric of especially early Zuckerberg and Jobs and Jeff Bezos and these guys like they, they want the public to think that there's like this higher calling to this enterprise that they're pursuing, but realistically like what does Instagram do? They, you know, they've optimized selling us pants with seven zippers, right? Uh, Amazon makes it so that you don't have to leave your house to get toilet paper. Like, like what did they actually do to change the world?

• 23:59Bill Simmons?

  Apple's a hardware company.

• 24:00Speaker 04

  You know, like what, it, it, this isn't like indoor plumbing or electricity. You know what I'm saying? Like, like the idea that these guys have done something to change humanity is, I think is BS. And I think Levinson quite presciently is like calling BS on this whole culture, like which I think is very interesting, but again, the movie is just has too much to say about too many things.

• 24:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. I disagree, but that's a different podcast. So what, what?

• 24:27Bill Simmons?

  Wait, you disagree with the point?

• 24:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, I do.

• 24:29Bill Simmons?

  What do you disagree with?

• 24:30Speaker 03

  Well, I think that guys like Jobs, like I think that there's, there's, there's a spectrum here, right?

• 24:36Speaker 04

  Definitely.

• 24:37Speaker 03

  Yeah. And, and so like, you know, Steve Jobs and Wozniak invented the personal computer, basically. Like they had a different view of the world. They took like computing out of, that changed the world.

• 24:51Speaker 04

  True.

• 24:51Speaker 03

  So like they, they took computing out of someplace where the military was doing it and put a computer like in your home. That fundamentally changed the world. And I think if anything with Steve Jobs, he was chasing that high. And I think. I'm not gonna be like, I'm not like a tech bro, but I think he kinda did it again. In many different ways.

• 25:14Speaker 04

  iPhone is definitely revolutionary.

• 25:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, but, but, but what I would say, this, the thing about this movie is, I think he's right, but I think the movie doesn't have the balls to be about what it wants to be about. I think the movie shoehorns the corporate, but obviously, it's based on.

• 25:31Bill Simmons?

  It's based on a book, yeah.

• 25:32Speaker 03

  Michael Crichton book.

• 25:34Speaker 04

  Who's got a difficult relationship with women, to say the least.

• 25:37Speaker 03

  I think this, I think that this story wants to be about, it wants to be a very direct indictment of, uh, workplace culture and, uh, harassment and no means no, it's having a conversation really that we're kind of still having. We act like we, we're the first generation to have the conversation about consent. We're the first generation to have the conversation about sexual harassment.

• 26:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 26:03Speaker 03

  We're the first generation, no, it's been being had for a very, very long time. This movie kinda wants to be about that, but in order to get people to have that conversation in nineteen ninety-four.

• 26:14Bill Simmons?

  You gotta throw a sex in there.

• 26:15Speaker 03

  You gotta throw a sex scene in there, and you gotta give them some half-baked internet mumbo jumbo corporate espionage to wrap it all up in, because what they're really talking about is whether or not the current workplace structures that they have can last women entering into them. Cause at the end of the movie, the lady gets the job. At the end of the movie, he gets petted on his butt, and, and his saving grace is that he's happy that a woman gets the job.

• 26:47Bill Simmons?

  Well, the guy, the guy who creates the angel character, like one of his computer programmers, there's that scene in the middle of the movie, when he's like, she, Douglas says, she got to you, didn't he? And he's like, what do you expect? They're smarter than us. Like, of course they're gonna rule the earth. The movie's really trying to dive into some of that stuff, but pretty casually. I agree with most of what Waz said, because this ties into an idealism that existed.

• 27:12Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 27:12Bill Simmons?

  In that ninety-two to ninety-five range, where it's like, Clinton takes over, we're gonna have our young, our version of JFK, right? The, all this good stuff is happening with technology. This is all, all the smart people, all the best, all the best and brightest are now gonna drift here, and we're gonna do it in Seattle, in Silicon Valley, all these different places. And people are just really optimistic about stuff. And you kind of feel it in this movie. But what you said is right, because this is ultimately be a movie about Donald Sutherland doesn't want to lose money because he's merging. And he doesn't want to lose a hundred million dollars. He wants to make as much money as possible. There's some cockamamie scheme to frame Michael Douglas's character because he fucked up the product line.

• 27:54Speaker 03

  But Donald.

• 27:55Bill Simmons?

  And that's it.

• 27:55Speaker 03

  The only thing I would say about that is, I don't want to get bogged down, but the only thing I would say is that Donald Sutherland is the, he's the devil of the movie. The virtue of the movie lies in the engineers and the people who are trying to create something. So that would actually change stuff.

• 28:16Bill Simmons?

  You can't put that, those chips in the CD-ROMs by hand.

• 28:21Speaker 04

  So, and again.

• 28:22Bill Simmons?

  What?

• 28:23Speaker 04

  And we're going to get into, again, for me, what age is the best and these different things. And, you know, a lot of it is my own biases, right? I think like the engineers and the technologists that Van is talking about, like the people who are actually like, you know, the truest believers and who we would say the most meritocratic, like they deserve to be in these positions. In this world, they're not the ones who win. They're the ones who get trampled over. It's these corporate operators who end up winning. It's not the technically sound, who you would assume in this technical industry.

• 29:00Bill Simmons?

  The creators.

• 29:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, the creators would be the ones, you know, reaping all the benefits. Like, no, it's the same corporate sharks who reap all of the benefits. And the way that you get ahead in this world is to maneuver, is to be a mover, be an operator and not be.

• 29:15Bill Simmons?

  You love this.

• 29:16Speaker 03

  I'm wondering, is this making you uncomfortable yet, Bill?

• 29:19Bill Simmons?

  Not at all.

• 29:22Speaker 04

  Well, is Bill a corporate maneuver? And Sean, is that what's happening? He's moving the chest pieces.

• 29:29Speaker 03

  I'm just looking right now to see when the sweat.

• 29:31Bill Simmons?

  I'm like a D.O. Digicom.

• 29:36Speaker 04

  I love this idea. That Bill is the Donald Sutherland in The Ringer. He's just moving the chest pieces.

• 29:43Bill Simmons?

  Planning a merger. Here's the plot really quickly. The CEO, Sutherland, he wants to retire after the merger. Tom Sanders, the Douglas character, he thinks he's gonna get promoted to run C.D. Rom's. Demi Moore's character Meredith comes in, no, she's running it. We have this sex scene. Harassment stuff flies back and forth.

• 30:05Speaker 03

  First day.

• 30:05Bill Simmons?

  First day.

• 30:06Speaker 04

  First day.

• 30:07Bill Simmons?

  Harassment stuff flies back and forth. He figures out, um, how to get his job back. And then he's being set up to be fired for cause. Somehow gets all of these incriminating things. And then challenges her. And what really happened, which I think I figured out the fifth time I watched this movie, is she had fucked up originally with the product line. And she's trying to frame him because he was the only one who would be able to eventually figure out that she had fucked up.

• 30:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 30:37Bill Simmons?

  Which of course raises the question, why even do the sexual harassment stuff? Why not just say from the get-go, you fucked up the product line? This is more than a nitpick? It's just like, how about just from the get-go, just blame him for the fact that the product line was fucked? And you don't have to like buy him the wine.

• 30:52Speaker 03

  I mean, I have to be honest with you, I didn't make it to the end of the movie till at least like 1998. But it's, it's, it's, I'll just be real with you. Like, I'm like, I'm, I'm serious. No, I like, no idea. It was like, okay. But they, the, the overblown way in which they go about, like, just trying to make him look incompetent is so stupid.

• 31:13Bill Simmons?

  The most convoluted, crazy attempt.

• 31:16Speaker 03

  And then he becomes Ethan Hunt.

• 31:18Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 31:18Speaker 03

  Like, he, he legitimately goes into it, espionage, breaks into somebody's hotel room, the whole nine. The movie just becomes a whole different film. Courtroom drama film?

• 31:30Bill Simmons?

  Yes, there's a courtroom drama.

• 31:31Speaker 04

  I'm a shoe lord in here.

• 31:32Bill Simmons?

  And it's got that uh, the great lawyer character that was a very like nineteen nineties. That female attorney who's gonna use hard copy like that was basically Leslie Abramson.

• 31:44Bill Simmons?

  Some really funny technology stuff in this movie too, that I want to get to, but we gotta take a quick break.

• 31:54Bill Simmons?

  So the technology stuff, which is one of the reasons this became a rewatchable movie. It starts in the beginning. When the little kid is like, dad, you have an email.

• 32:06Bill Simmons?

  Dad, there's an email. That happens, the video linkups are like, the whole concept of CD-ROMs being so incredibly important.

• 32:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:16Bill Simmons?

  I mean, when was the last time a CD-ROM existed?

• 32:18Speaker 03

  When AOL sent the CD-ROM.

• 32:22Bill Simmons?

  Oh yeah.

• 32:22Speaker 04

  AOL seven point O.

• 32:24Speaker 03

  I thought it was witchcraft. I'm like, yo.

• 32:26Speaker 04

  Futuristic.

• 32:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 32:28Speaker 04

  Just the idea that you could skip a song on a CD, like that you didn't have to press fast forward on something and like, hope that you got it, you know, right as the next song. So you just press the button and a new song would start playing was just like.

• 32:42Bill Simmons?

  So we have. Somebody getting an email. Being ominous in a movie. Where it's like his email, somebody would go to a computer and like the score would be like.

• 32:55Bill Simmons?

  And then. I guess they're saying the future is VR, being able to work virtually. But you have to be in some sort of crazy universe with gloves to go find your files.

• 33:08Speaker 04

  Reality was a big nineties obsession.

• 33:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, like where's this going? It's almost like when flying cars were an obsession in the sixties.

• 33:14Speaker 04

  Idea that you would leave the physical world and spend so much time like sort of fully immersed in some alternate.

• 33:23Bill Simmons?

  And not in the office, which by the way, is kind of what we, where we ended up during COVID.

• 33:27Speaker 03

  That's why I was gonna ask you, like, watching this during COVID when we were living in a virtual society. Like, did it?

• 33:35Speaker 04

  I thought, that's what I'm saying. I thought the movie was pretty good about like predicting future, just like the FaceTime element of it all, right? That's just seemed completely insane as an idea.

• 33:45Bill Simmons?

  Which they stole from Total Recall. I think Total Recall invented that.

• 33:47Speaker 04

  Probably.

• 33:48Bill Simmons?

  Remember the FaceTime on the TV?

• 33:49Speaker 04

  Yeah. Either that or the usher, you don't have to call video.

• 33:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, they had that too.

• 33:53Speaker 04

  Um, all of the technology in this stuff, like the, you know, the digital communication, the sort of, the idea that like people would wanna leave the physical realm and like be completely lost somewhere else, whether they're doing their job or doing something else. Um, and again, just like the creeping sense that this wasn't a good thing. That's what I felt like the movie was saying to me, like, I know like this stuff seems new and exciting, but like, the movie is very skeptical.

• 34:25Speaker 03

  In a lot of ways, it's an art versus commerce movie.

• 34:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:27Speaker 03

  In a lot of ways, it's a, how do we break ground and use new technology to go to different frontiers?

• 34:35Speaker 04

  Do something cool.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  Right. And then who's gonna profit from it? And is it going to be done in a way that's responsible or in a way that, uh, prioritizes doing something new and different? Like, I got the Vision Pro and I played around, played around on the Vision Pro. And then, the only thing that was super awesome about it was like, you guys are making judgments. That's not what I'm gonna say. That's not what I'm gonna say. I see both of the looks on your faces.

• 35:01Speaker 04

  I'm just, I just wanna hear.

• 35:02Speaker 03

  That's not what I'm gonna say.

• 35:03Bill Simmons?

  I'm just nervous.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  I'm not, I'm not gonna say that. Watching NBA games on the Vision Pro is actually super.

• 35:09Bill Simmons?

  You could see the Lakers not play defense in a totally different way.

• 35:12Speaker 03

  Why you gotta do that? Like what? What, what should, you, you, you, you gotta let go, in 2025, Bill, you gotta let go of vendettas.

• 35:21Bill Simmons?

  I just love making fun of the Lakers. How is that a vendetta?

• 35:25Speaker 03

  It, it happens every time.

• 35:26Bill Simmons?

  You love making fun of shit?

• 35:27Speaker 03

  Like what?

• 35:28Bill Simmons?

  I don't know. What do you like making fun of?

• 35:30Speaker 03

  The Celtics. But, but, but yeah, so like, but, all of the things that the Vision Pro could do, and it's a very cool piece of, but really what I'm doing is. Watching NBA games on it.

• 35:43Bill Simmons?

  You'd be doing anyway.

• 35:44Speaker 03

  Doing all of that stuff, but it's more fun to do with somebody sitting right next to you.

• 35:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 35:50Speaker 03

  It's more fun to do with Kalika with at your crib. It's more fun to do it that way. So I think we thought that we would be doing all of this amazing stuff with this technology. And don't get me wrong, there are people are, there are people that are, but we're just kind of not. We're just kind of like passing the time with it, you know?

• 36:09Bill Simmons?

  So Michael Creighton sold the movie rights for a million dollars before the novel was published.

• 36:14Speaker 03

  Wow, before the novel was published.

• 36:16Speaker 04

  Big dog.

• 36:17Bill Simmons?

  In the book, the difference is.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  Hold on for a second. He the motherfucking man.

• 36:24Speaker 03

  He got a million bucks.

• 36:28Bill Simmons?

  He's like, I have this idea, gives them the one paragraph description. They're like, here's a million dollars.

• 36:33Speaker 03

  Oh, that's the man. Give it up to Big Kreitz, man.

• 36:36Bill Simmons?

  So in the book, Tom obtains enough evidence to Michael Douglas' character to overturn Meredith and Phil. And they both get fired, but the merger doesn't go through and Tom doesn't receive his promotion. And then then Meredith and Phil get better jobs somewhere else. So it's a little cynical. It's like this actually worked out for them. They're in a better spot. Fifty million dollar budget made 214 million dollars.

• 37:00Speaker 03

  Mammoth hit.

• 37:00Speaker 04

  It's a smash.

• 37:01Speaker 03

  Mammoth hit.

• 37:02Speaker 04

  In 94.

• 37:02Bill Simmons?

  People love Michael Douglas got his dick, his dick got him in trouble again. That's like all they had to do in the commercial campaign.

• 37:08Speaker 03

  That's all I had to do for the trailer.

• 37:10Speaker 04

  I'm telling you.

• 37:11Bill Simmons?

  Get that 399 rental going.

• 37:13Speaker 03

  Story of the movie was so robust, like the story around the premise of the movie. It was like a, it was one of those things.

• 37:22Bill Simmons?

  It was literally, it's legitimately controversial.

• 37:24Speaker 03

  Like one of those things that.

• 37:25Bill Simmons?

  The book was too.

• 37:26Speaker 03

  They were talking about like on the Today Show. They were talking about it in. This is actually a movie where a woman sexually harasses a man. I'll say something about Demi Moore. Is casting that part.

• 37:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 37:39Speaker 03

  Is really, really. To make it believable, the actress that has to play.

• 37:44Bill Simmons?

  Well, we have a great casting what if for it because somebody else was supposed to get it. So we'll talk about that later.

• 37:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, her sexual magnetism has to be like.

• 37:52Speaker 03

  But also the strength that she can dominate a man and turn healed.

• 37:58Bill Simmons?

  It's a great part.

• 37:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:00Bill Simmons?

  Creighton was saying that the reason he did it this way was because everyone would know the other way. If it was the female that was being sexually harassed, it's like people, the flipping it.

• 38:10Speaker 04

  Oh, that's what he said?

• 38:11Bill Simmons?

  Was made him. Well, that's I'm just reporting.

• 38:14Speaker 04

  So.

• 38:14Bill Simmons?

  He said the flipping it was what made it interesting because it made people kind of reevaluate what sexual harassment was.

• 38:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean.

• 38:21Bill Simmons?

  But it's also what made it so controversial.

• 38:23Speaker 04

  I've never read the book, talking to Sean outside before we came in here. He's like, the book is a little bit less ambiguous. It's like this woman is pure evil.

• 38:32Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 38:32Speaker 04

  And she's come to ruin this, this poor great dad's life.

• 38:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 38:37Speaker 04

  Whereas the movie, I don't think.

• 38:38Bill Simmons?

  Which is very similar to the Fatal Attraction theme.

• 38:40Speaker 04

  I don't think the movie is that two D. I think this character is a little bit more three D in terms of her ambitions and.

• 38:47Speaker 03

  At the end.

• 38:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:48Speaker 03

  Throughout the, throughout the, the, at the end, they, they humanize her a little bit, but. Throughout the, she is straight up Lucifer incarnate. She lying and then even when they catch her in the lie, she doesn't pivot back. She doesn't say, my bad for lying.

• 39:05Speaker 04

  She doubles down.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  She, she, yeah, like, then at the end, you start to realize that she kind of is a woman. That's getting grinded up in the boys' club.

• 39:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 39:16Speaker 03

  And is trying to survive it.

• 39:17Speaker 04

  This, like, again, that's why I think the movie's a little bit more three dimensional. Um, I think what they're trying to say is like, there's no other way to be a CEO. Like, the way that you are one of these corner office executives is like, if somebody crosses you, you kill them. That's it. And you bring the power of the institution to bear on that person. You rally your big dogs around you and you kill them. And that's what she tried to do. And I think to me, the movie is just saying, this is exactly what a man would do in this position. There's like quotes where there's like, when did I have the power?

• 39:50Speaker 03

  Right.

• 39:51Speaker 04

  She had the power, like, the movie is making.

• 39:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, when he starts yelling at the man. That's one of the funniest sins. He goes at the man, hey, come on down here, I have the power.

• 40:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:06Bill Simmons?

  Uh, Roger Ebert, not impressed by this movie.

• 40:08Speaker 04

  Really?

• 40:09Bill Simmons?

  Two stars.

• 40:10Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 40:10Bill Simmons?

  He wrote, "It is an exercise in pure cynicism with little respect for its subject or for its thriller plot, which I defy anyone to explain. The theme is basically a launchpad for sex scenes. And yet, the movie is so sleek, so glossy, so filled with possessor porn that you can enjoy it like a sharper image catalog that walks and talks."

• 40:30Speaker 04

  Jesus Christ. He was not feeling this.

• 40:33Speaker 03

  Insanely well-written. I'll tell you this, though. Watching the movie now, it is with just everything in the way things are now and like kind of where I'm at. It is very un-horny. I mean, it's horny at the beginning.

• 40:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 40:47Speaker 03

  But it, for all intents and purposes, blows its whole wad after that scene. And then there is no more sexuality in the movie whatsoever. And that is the entire rest of the movie. This movie isn't in any way, to me, an erotic thriller. It has a-

• 41:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it doesn't throw in like the sex scene with his wife where he starts to get carried away in it or nothing.

• 41:11Speaker 03

  The triple horn sex scene?

• 41:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, nothing.

• 41:12Speaker 03

  Like, none of that stuff happens that the rest of the erotic thrillers all have. It doesn't exist in this one.

• 41:22Bill Simmons?

  All right, we're going to most re-watchable scenes. Today's the most re-watchable scene brought to by Paramount Plus. This holiday season, your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to watch every Mission Impossible on Paramount Plus. They might do this. Catch up on the greatest action franchise of all time, starring Tom Cruise, of course. Now streaming on Paramount Plus. All right, re-watchable scenes.

• 41:43Speaker 03

  I'll do that right after I finish watching everything Taylor Sheridan has ever made, every second of it.

• 41:49Speaker 04

  I'm right there with you.

• 41:50Bill Simmons?

  Are you caught up on Landman?

• 41:51Speaker 03

  No, not yet.

• 41:52Bill Simmons?

  Landman's great.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:53Bill Simmons?

  All right, first re-watchable scene. Tom finds out he might be out of a job. Just throwing that in there. Second one. Tom and Meredith see each other for the first time, read into Douglas angrily talking, telling his staff about it.

• 42:07Speaker 05

  Goddamn Garvin. What happened? I didn't get it. What? You're not the new VP?

• 42:11Speaker 01

  He announced it.

• 42:12Speaker 05

  It was some kind of secret. Meanwhile, he's got her installed up there in the office. They're bouncing back and forth like it's the fucking Tonight Show. Who? Meredith Johnson. Who's Meredith Johnson? This isn't gonna affect the spinoff, is it? This is a technical division. She doesn't know the difference between a software and a cashmere sweater. Hey, come on now, what aren't you telling us? Hey, I might be out of a job, Lewin. How about that? Is that enough? You know what it's like out there? He did say something about the spinoff. They didn't tell me about me. You think they're gonna tell me about the goddamn spinoff?

• 42:37Bill Simmons?

  Which features some of the funniest workplace banter.

• 42:40Speaker 04

  So good.

• 42:41Bill Simmons?

  You can't even believe it.

• 42:42Speaker 04

  It's so good.

• 42:43Bill Simmons?

  You can't, it's just like, you're watching it going, oh my god, like, there's 19 different lines in this scene that would be an HR violation.

• 42:52Speaker 04

  100%. Um, I had that as a rewatchable scene, when he realizes he got passed over, and he goes and tells his, like, sort of, team or whatever, and they just start, basically, debating feminism. Right, out of nowhere.

• 43:05Speaker 05

  Hey, let me guess, uh, she's attractive?

• 43:08Speaker 01

  What does that have to do with anything?

• 43:09Speaker 05

  Great rack, nipples like pencil erasers? She's attractive, yeah, she's very attractive. You think she's sleeping with Garvin? That's why he bought the Nordic track. You know, it's a curse to be me, life holds no surprises.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  This is such a cliche.

• 43:21Speaker 05

  Oh, come on, Hunter, how do you think a cliche becomes a cliche?

• 43:25Speaker 01

  You mean, like, size doesn't matter?

• 43:28Speaker 05

  I have such a thing for you, Hunter. All right, all right, please, can we get some work done here?

• 43:34Speaker 04

  That's what they're doing, they're going back and forth, and Dennis Miller's like, you know, the typical guy, like, making his snide-

• 43:40Bill Simmons?

  He's doing the eyes cracking.

• 43:41Speaker 04

  Dennis Miller is the avatar for the cool chick in the office.

• 43:44Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 43:45Speaker 04

  Who can-

• 43:45Bill Simmons?

  She can talk like the guy.

• 43:46Speaker 04

  And also, just like, the avatar for, like, the new American workplace. There's, like, this woman who is an engineer, and she went to school for it, and she knows her stuff just as well as anybody else, but she's explaining to her male colleagues the difficulties of being a woman in these environments, and everybody being like, yeah, get over it, whatever. I, I love that scene.

• 44:09Bill Simmons?

  Next scene. Tom goes to have a drink with Meredith.

• 44:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:14Bill Simmons?

  Stop by the office around 7:00. Picked out a bottle of wine for us.

• 44:18Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:20Bill Simmons?

  The radar gun I had for dummy in this scene.

• 44:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:25Bill Simmons?

  A raw, this Chapman range. It's like she's on 108.

• 44:28Speaker 03

  It's nuts.

• 44:29Bill Simmons?

  108. She's so good in this scene.

• 44:31Speaker 03

  I say, cause there's no nudity in the scene.

• 44:33Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 44:34Speaker 03

  It is the hottest, non-nude sex scene ever.

• 44:39Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 44:40Speaker 03

  It, it's, there's, there's no.

• 44:42Bill Simmons?

  We'll be back on the Mr. Skin Podcast after this.

• 44:46Speaker 03

  Been a member since nine.

• 44:49Speaker 03

  Been a member for a long time, but it's, it, and it's, and maybe it shouldn't be. Cause I think that's part of the scene. Part of the scene is that if those roles are reversed, you're not in any way supposed to find that appealing. If those roles are reversed and it's the man that is pushing up, the scene is kind of an indictment of the viewer in a way too. Because, because she's being so aggressive and she won't take no for an answer. The honest, the honestly, there's a part of that that is.

• 45:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 45:22Speaker 03

  It, that there's a part of that that's hot. And so you're supposed to feel a little nasty after you realize that this is a married guy.

• 45:32Bill Simmons?

  Well, you know, they have their history though too, because she's playing the history piece of it. Like, come on, for old times sake.

• 45:37Speaker 03

  And I think why I find the movie to be interesting is that the way they deployed is that like Michael Douglas kind of wants it. That's, that's what I think complicates this whole thing.

• 45:50Bill Simmons?

  And I'll listen to your problems. He's like, alright, I'll rub your shoulders.

• 45:53Speaker 03

  You know, he's like. But there's a familiarity there to where it wasn't coming from someone whose shoulders he's never rubbed before.

• 45:59Bill Simmons?

  100%.

• 46:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 46:00Bill Simmons?

  And he just keeps going and going and going. Well, you left out the part, she's like, let me see some photos of the fam and he's showing her and she says something, he goes, well, she never lost the weight from the second baby.

• 46:11Speaker 03

  She just straight up, she just straight up, no, she straight up looks at her and goes, she looks like she always keeps food in the refrigerator. I'm like, God damn.

• 46:19Bill Simmons?

  Killer, killer.

• 46:20Speaker 03

  She's like, the only thing in my refrigerator is a bottle of champagne and an orange. I'm like, okay, you trying to say my wife fat?

• 46:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Then she starts doing the remember all the things we did.

• 46:29Speaker 06

  I think it's gonna be a bit inhibiting. What's that? Domesticity. Oh, you'd be surprised. Well, I don't imagine you can jump her from behind just because all of a sudden you get excited by the way she bends down to pick up the soap. You remember that, don't you?

• 46:46Speaker 06

  Yeah, I remember that. And you miss it.

• 46:51Speaker 05

  I have my compensations.

• 46:53Speaker 06

  Of course you do. Life's a series of trade offs. Isn't that what you tell yourself?

• 46:56Speaker 05

  But I wouldn't trade what I have if that's what you're saying.

• 46:58Speaker 06

  I wouldn't want you to. It's exactly why I could trust you.

• 47:03Speaker 06

  You have a lot more to lose than I do.

• 47:06Bill Simmons?

  And then uh-

• 47:07Speaker 03

  That was a very common trope back in the day. Like, old, old-

• 47:10Bill Simmons?

  Old girlfriend, yeah. The old flame starts-

• 47:12Speaker 03

  Remember the ice cubes and all of that stuff, yeah.

• 47:15Bill Simmons?

  So then we just get going and a lot of dirty talk. Doesn't really work out. We do get, uh, this is, Ben, I had, Waz knows I'm gonna do this. We have this, we have Single Weight Female.

• 47:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:30Bill Simmons?

  Which are in the, in the finals of guy getting a blowjob pretending he doesn't want one, but he's also enjoying it. And started doing, "Oh, no! No! Oh, no! No! Oh, no! No!"

• 47:45Bill Simmons?

  Single, I think Single Weight Female's better.

• 47:47Speaker 03

  It's better because he-

• 47:48Bill Simmons?

  Because he knows who it is. He's like, "Ah, I'll finish."

• 47:52Speaker 03

  But then after, but after the Single Weight Female, he gets-

• 47:55Bill Simmons?

  He's a shoe in the eye.

• 47:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, he gets angry. He gets like self righteous.

• 47:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 48:00Speaker 03

  "Oh, you don't have to tell her, cuz I'm gonna tell her." Yeah, you're gonna tell your girlfriend the next day that her roommate gave you a blowjob, but you didn't know it was her.

• 48:10Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 48:10Speaker 03

  Good luck, dawg.

• 48:11Speaker 04

  You knew it was me.

• 48:13Bill Simmons?

  So he, he gets out of there. She has the classic line.

• 48:17Speaker 04

  Hold on, before, before that, like, the point that I love, the reason why he stops, he somehow looks at his reflection in like a glass or something. He's like, it's that classic like-

• 48:29Bill Simmons?

  Like a wild animal, yeah.

• 48:30Speaker 04

  Looking in the mirror and he's just like, "Oh."

• 48:32Speaker 03

  Easiest gray shot Gordo of all time.

• 48:33Speaker 04

  "What am I doing?" You know, he's like, "What am I doing?" And then he stops and yeah, she, some of the-

• 48:40Bill Simmons?

  You stick your dick in my mouth and then you get an attack of morality?

• 48:45Speaker 03

  Good line. It's a good line.

• 48:48Bill Simmons?

  He responds, I have a family now.

• 48:50Speaker 03

  I'm a, yeah.

• 48:51Bill Simmons?

  What?

• 48:53Bill Simmons?

  You get back here and you finish what you started. That scene is, is fucking batshit crazy.

• 48:57Speaker 03

  She is.

• 48:58Bill Simmons?

  It is batshit crazy.

• 48:59Speaker 03

  She walks out.

• 49:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, with her bra.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  It's Demi, she's in her bra, she's leaning over, she's.

• 49:06Bill Simmons?

  Get back here.

• 49:07Speaker 03

  The hottest, guys, there's no other way to say it. The hottest woman in Hollywood at the time, you could maybe make an argument for Sharon Stone or whomever, whatever. Begging, begging for a guy to come back into the office and have disgusting nasty sex with her. It's just an unbelievably magnetic scene.

• 49:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 49:30Speaker 03

  And she's, and, and if you're Demi Moore, you gotta give it all to that scene.

• 49:33Bill Simmons?

  She's great. Next rewatchable, Dennis Miller on the double date with Douglas. Just blowing, blowing his cover.

• 49:42Speaker 03

  Unbelievable.

• 49:43Bill Simmons?

  Doing Dennis Miller lines. You see, this is my big shot asshole. It's not like I'm getting scouted by the NBA.

• 49:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:48Bill Simmons?

  It's like, I don't know if they just let him write all his lines. They all sound like things Dennis Miller said.

• 49:53Speaker 03

  Who got to you?

• 49:54Bill Simmons?

  And then the wife sticks up for him.

• 49:55Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 49:56Bill Simmons?

  So he told me.

• 49:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:58Bill Simmons?

  So let's, let's just have a nice evening. It's like, I'm pretty sure the evening's been ruined.

• 50:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:02Bill Simmons?

  Um, and then.

• 50:03Speaker 03

  She's a ride or die. We love it.

• 50:04Bill Simmons?

  And then that also leads to, uh, Tom getting mad at, mad at her after, about the whole thing and.

• 50:10Speaker 03

  So that was, that was one of my, like, when he actually comes clean to his wife and she just, like, goes down the list of like, how much of a fuck up this guy is.

• 50:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 50:20Speaker 03

  She's reading him the riot act. I, I just thought that was very well done.

• 50:24Bill Simmons?

  He does, his response is, sexual harassment is about power. When did I have the power?

• 50:32Bill Simmons?

  Barry Levinson outro music, next scene.

• 50:34Speaker 03

  Let's go.

• 50:36Bill Simmons?

  Tom's sexual harassment deposition.

• 50:40Bill Simmons?

  It's hilarious.

• 50:42Speaker 04

  That lawyer dude.

• 50:44Bill Simmons?

  Yes.

• 50:45Speaker 04

  Is excellent.

• 50:46Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's got the lawyer dude, yeah.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  Both lawyers, very smart in that situation. He has a female lawyer.

• 50:54Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 50:54Speaker 03

  And she has the typical old male boys' club lawyer.

• 50:59Bill Simmons?

  So would a gynecologist get an erection when he sees?

• 51:02Speaker 04

  Great question.

• 51:03Bill Simmons?

  Just like, oh, just playing all the hits. That's a very squirmy scene. And then Meredith's deposition.

• 51:10Speaker 03

  Baby.

• 51:10Bill Simmons?

  When they find the 91 Paul Meyer.

• 51:13Speaker 06

  I said to get an ice Chardonnay, I remembered that Tom liked white wine.

• 51:17Speaker 05

  From those trips to Napa, that he was sort of an amateur wine connoisseur and that he would be impressed by an ice bottle.

• 51:23Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 51:24Speaker 05

  Do you remember the wine?

• 51:26Speaker 06

  No.

• 51:28Speaker 05

  The 91 Paul Meyer?

• 51:31Speaker 06

  Yes, that's right.

• 51:32Speaker 05

  Do you know where your assistant got that wine?

• 51:36Speaker 06

  I assume that she got it from the liquor store down the street.

• 51:39Speaker 05

  Would it surprise you to know, Ms. Johnson, that there isn't a single liquor store in Seattle that carries that bottle?

• 51:46Speaker 06

  Mrs. Ross is very resourceful.

• 51:49Speaker 05

  Very resourceful. A bottle of wine you can't find within 500 miles of Seattle.

• 51:56Speaker 06

  I have no idea where she got the bottle of wine.

• 51:59Speaker 05

  Isn't it true, Ms. Johnson, that you told Mrs. Ross three weeks ago that you wanted a bottle of the 91 Paul Meyer for your meeting with Mr. Sanders?

• 52:09Speaker 06

  That's not true.

• 52:10Speaker 05

  And when she couldn't find it, you said, oh, what was that? It had such managerial brio. Oh, here it is. If you don't find the wine, find a replacement.

• 52:25Bill Simmons?

  And they realize it's not sold within 500 miles or whatever. That's really good.

• 52:30Speaker 04

  A bit of like a baby wine guy. I was proud of that moment. It's like, how were you gonna get a wine from four years ago or three years ago, whatever it was at your local store three days ago?

• 52:40Speaker 03

  But see, that's.

• 52:42Bill Simmons?

  Good legal stuff.

• 52:44Speaker 03

  That's the legal stuff. That's the courtroom drama stuff.

• 52:47Bill Simmons?

  The next one is when he finally somehow gets the tape, which we'll talk about later in Nipex. And.

• 52:55Bill Simmons?

  And they play the tape and she knows she's cooked.

• 52:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:58Bill Simmons?

  And then she turns into femme fatale.

• 53:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:01Bill Simmons?

  Haven't you ever said no and meant yes, Mrs. Alvarez? It's like, oh, okay, we're going here now.

• 53:05Speaker 03

  Like, literally, like.

• 53:07Bill Simmons?

  Sometimes no means the person wants to be overwhelmed.

• 53:10Speaker 03

  That's the, that's the equivalent.

• 53:12Bill Simmons?

  We're recording this.

• 53:13Speaker 03

  That's the equivalent of the Sharon Stone interrogation scene.

• 53:17Bill Simmons?

  Hundred percent.

• 53:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:19Bill Simmons?

  And then she has the big speech, which Craig's gonna play now.

• 53:22Speaker 06

  Well, when he really wanted to stop, he didn't seem to have any problems doing it, did he?

• 53:26Speaker 05

  And that's when you got angry.

• 53:28Speaker 06

  Of course I got angry. So would anyone.

• 53:30Speaker 05

  Don't we tell women that they can stop at any point?

• 53:32Speaker 06

  Haven't you ever said no and meant yes, Mrs. Alvarez?

• 53:35Speaker 05

  Up until the moment of actual penetration.

• 53:37Speaker 06

  The point is, he was willing. That tape doesn't change anything.

• 53:40Speaker 05

  The point is, you control the meeting. You set the time, you order the wine, you lock the door, you demanded service, and then you got angry when he didn't provide it. So you decided to get even, to get rid of him with this trumped up charge. Ms. Johnson, the only thing you have proven is that a woman in power can be every bit as abusive as a man.

• 54:02Speaker 06

  You want to put me on trial here? Let's at least be honest about what it's for. I am a sexually aggressive woman. I like it. Tom knew it and you can't handle it. It is the same damn thing since the beginning of time. Veil it, hide it, lock it up, and throw away the key. We expect a woman to do a man's job, make a man's money, and then walk around with a parasol and lie down for a man to fuck her like it was still a hundred years ago. Well, no, thank you.

• 54:26Bill Simmons?

  We expect a woman to do a man's job, make a man's money, and then walk around with a parasol and lie down for a man to fuck her like it was still a hundred years ago. Well, no, thank you.

• 54:34Speaker 04

  Classic. So good.

• 54:37Bill Simmons?

  And for me, we still haven't hit the best scene in the movie yet because we get Tom sneaking into the hotel room to get the VR files. And all of a sudden, this becomes a Star Trek movie for five minutes.

• 54:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:48Bill Simmons?

  And it's VR. He almost falls over into the VR cliff.

• 54:52Speaker 03

  You know what's funny?

• 54:53Bill Simmons?

  The special effects are so bad. And then the Demi Moore 3D avatar jump scare.

• 54:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:59Bill Simmons?

  I don't know where she comes in, like.

• 55:00Speaker 03

  She's in the system. Oh, my God!

• 55:01Bill Simmons?

  She's doing it in the files!

• 55:04Speaker 03

  It's the fucking lawnmower, man. Even when I fucking wa- when I watch that scene, when I watch that scene, I'm thinking, look how.

• 55:14Speaker 03

  Like heroin that is, he almost falls off the thing. I do that for fun at home. It's a game on the Oculus called Frank's.

• 55:21Speaker 04

  You got the Oculus and the Vision Pro?

• 55:23Speaker 03

  I'll go in, baby. It is called Frank's Plank Adventure and the funniest thing is like watching people play it. Because you're walking across a plank between two gigantic skyscrapers, but you're in the VR. So the people that are walking across your living room are legitimately doing like this. They're scared. Some people cry and get down. So all of that technology, we use it for bullshit.

• 55:50Speaker 04

  Right.

• 55:50Speaker 03

  I'm telling you, we use it to have a good time with it.

• 55:53Bill Simmons?

  Not to get files?

• 55:55Speaker 03

  Not to get files and change the world and espionage with the angels and all of that stuff.

• 56:01Speaker 04

  Make sure you don't get fired from your company.

• 56:03Bill Simmons?

  Shout out to, uh, Demi Moore's, I'm angrily using my computer face.

• 56:08Speaker 04

  Yeah. She's fired up.

• 56:11Bill Simmons?

  Um, I love that scene. It's so stupid. I also love, I had this in what's age the best. This device that really was only in the nineties when somebody needed to get into somebody's hotel room and they would just call them like, "Hey, I need my roommate up. It's 311." And like, "Sure thing, sir." And then you just walk into the room and the maid's like, "Hello, sir." I promise this doesn't work in real life.

• 56:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's the room. I, I, I always have questions about this because I wonder, like.

• 56:36Bill Simmons?

  Could anyone do this? Because they do it in Pacific Heights too. Melanie Griffith gets in there.

• 56:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, like people could get in their rooms and the security thing to be lax.

• 56:44Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 56:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, if room service is doing your room, the door is just open. How do they know who's actually staying there?

• 56:52Bill Simmons?

  The big stockholder meeting showdown. Demi gets fired.

• 56:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, tough.

• 56:57Bill Simmons?

  Unrealistic but fun to watch. And then, uh, the ending. Stephanie gets the job. Turns out she was a friend all along.

• 57:04Speaker 04

  Who could have saw that coming?

• 57:05Bill Simmons?

  Counting on you to be my right hand, Tom.

• 57:09Speaker 03

  We haven't even talked about.

• 57:10Bill Simmons?

  Talks about the son.

• 57:11Speaker 03

  The a friend.

• 57:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Are you chemistry major? Yeah, I am. Happy music. Tom's got his job back and his family's still there. Demi Moore's out of a job.

• 57:21Speaker 03

  And women won. There's one scene you're leaving out.

• 57:25Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 57:26Speaker 03

  By far the most hilarious scene in the movie. It's not even close. This is the funniest scene in the movie. The dream sequence.

• 57:34Bill Simmons?

  I had that in What Stage's the Worst, cuz I hate it. Donald Sutherland making a move on him.

• 57:38Speaker 04

  Bro.

• 57:39Bill Simmons?

  So good.

• 57:41Speaker 03

  That is so funny.

• 57:42Speaker 04

  What is that suit man?

• 57:43Speaker 03

  What is that suit man out of Tom? And all of a sudden, Tom is, he's grabbing Tom.

• 57:48Speaker 04

  Dude, his, his mouth is wide open. His tongue is sticking out into the camera.

• 57:52Bill Simmons?

  It's brutal.

• 57:53Speaker 03

  And then hit Tom.

• 57:53Bill Simmons?

  It's a good jump scare.

• 57:54Speaker 03

  Ah!

• 57:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 57:57Bill Simmons?

  So what do we have for most rewatchable?

• 58:00Speaker 03

  Oh, come on.

• 58:01Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I know Vance answered.

• 58:02Speaker 04

  This is the sex scene.

• 58:03Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 58:04Speaker 04

  It is. I mean, it made Vance mixtape for a reason.

• 58:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:07Bill Simmons?

  I love the VR hotel room. Makes me laugh.

• 58:09Speaker 03

  It is very funny as well.

• 58:11Bill Simmons?

  That was today's most rewatchable scene brought to you by Paramount Plus. This holiday season, make it your mission to watch every Mission Impossible on Paramount Plus. Every dangerous secret, every heart pounding chase, every impossible jaw dropping stunt. Now streaming on Paramount Plus. We're gonna take a break and come back in a second.

• 58:34Bill Simmons?

  Next category. What's the most 1994 thing about this movie? Other than all the sexual harassment and workplace stuff that we talked about? I'll give you some nominees.

• 58:41Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 58:42Bill Simmons?

  Dad, you got an email! There's one. The Jeep Cherokee.

• 58:47Speaker 04

  Ben doesn't read your emails to you out loud.

• 58:50Bill Simmons?

  The Jeep Cherokee is very 1990s.

• 58:52Speaker 03

  Super. It was the dream car for me at the time.

• 58:53Bill Simmons?

  1990 Seattle? Put me in the Shawn Kemp singles.

• 58:57Speaker 03

  They had literally a ghost.

• 58:59Bill Simmons?

  Early Starbucks, yeah. Dennis Miller, just being cast as an actor, working as a computer programmer in Michael Douglas's group. Oh, I, we have him coming up later.

• 59:08Speaker 04

  I enjoyed it.

• 59:09Bill Simmons?

  Uh, but I think the casual sex harassment. Him's hitting the assistant with the files on her butt. Great job. I think that's the single most 1994 thing about the movie.

• 59:18Speaker 04

  It's, is that, and it's just the way that they're talking about sex. Is this a way that we just don't do that in public ever? Um, these days.

• 59:27Bill Simmons?

  Well, Van thinks it's coming back.

• 59:29Speaker 03

  I think it is too. As far, as far, as long as we get the crack Horobek's out of the way, so we can have fun.

• 59:34Bill Simmons?

  I know. The fun, the fun police. What's age the best, speaking of Dennis Mower. I like when movies bring in comedians, and this was a great Dennis Mower. This is my favorite stretch of Dennis Mower. I loved his HBO show. I liked when he's in this. I liked when he's in the net.

• 59:50Speaker 03

  He was in the net too, yeah.

• 59:51Bill Simmons?

  But I like when they bring the people in and just let them kind of cook as themselves.

• 59:56Speaker 03

  Hey, the thing was, hey, this movie's not very funny.

• 1:00:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:01Speaker 03

  Just come in for four, five scenes.

• 1:00:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:05Speaker 03

  Give us a little funny, get your check, go home.

• 1:00:07Bill Simmons?

  She doesn't give you a boner because she's definitely giving me lift off. Just like all these like cliched Dennis Mowers just rip them off. They were really smart when Meredith shows up for this or another What's Age the Best of making Tom kind of undercutting him. Like they have that one part when he sits at the table and he's in the smallest chair. She makes fun of his tie and he kind of looks down like he's just off balance for the first five minutes.

• 1:00:32Speaker 03

  In the small chair, that's another funny scene in the movie.

• 1:00:35Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:00:36Speaker 03

  And he's just below everyone.

• 1:00:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:38Speaker 03

  He was starting the day because this takes place over like a week.

• 1:00:41Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:00:42Speaker 03

  So he's starting the day on a high.

• 1:00:44Speaker 04

  And we know this because they start each day with Monday.

• 1:00:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:49Bill Simmons?

  It's like The Shining.

• 1:00:50Speaker 03

  He, uh, he, he starts the day on such a high and he just gets smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller throughout the day.

• 1:00:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I have a couple more. Do you have any What's Age the Best?

• 1:01:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, for me, it's definitely like the corporate culture portrayal. Um, the Dylan Baker character on Philip Blackburn.

• 1:01:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:10Speaker 04

  Like that like typical corporate blunt instrument machine where like he, he's just not a human being. He's just a freaking automaton, basically. Like for instance, like Van comes into our office. Whenever he's here, he's like humanizing the situation. Let's talk, let's engage, let's have some human connection.

• 1:01:30Bill Simmons?

  This is nice. This is a nice moment for you guys.

• 1:01:32Speaker 04

  It's what happens. This, this movie shows you what the typical corporate culture is, which is like leave your humanity at the freaking door. Um, and I thought that that's, for me, that's what aged the best, um, about the movie.

• 1:01:45Speaker 03

  The, the conversation about consent.

• 1:01:49Speaker 03

  When they had it was like verbatim, the conversations that we ended up. They literally have a conversation in the movie about living consent. That the idea that consent is born at any time and it dies at any time. And when we started having that conversation again, when I say we, I mean us as a society, during the Me Too movement. It was sometimes positions as if it was the first time, like I said before, that that conversation had ever been had. And it wasn't. And so when I saw that, I was like, you know, it might be good for us to remind ourselves that we've been talking about this stuff for a long time. And maybe you don't put it on any specific generation or any specific group of people.

• 1:02:34Speaker 03

  And you remember that these things are things that we're socially legislating and we should continue to socially legislate them.

• 1:02:41Bill Simmons?

  But this was, this was a nineties movie thing though. And we did like Wesley and I did Philadelphia for rewatchable, the same thing. It was like Hollywood knowing there are these big, important topics that they needed to hit. Being super clumsy about it, but hitting a bunch of it anyway. And then other parts where you're like, oh, why'd they do that?

• 1:02:58Speaker 04

  So that's, that's another thing to Van's point that I think the movie does a good job of predicting this sort of white male angst where like the identitarian way that we do everything now.

• 1:03:12Bill Simmons?

  Like that guy on the train in the beginning.

• 1:03:14Speaker 04

  100%. And he's talking about, oh, they got like women in the workplace or all of that, all of these anxieties to the point where, you know, when Tom is yelling at his, uh, his wife in the, in the kitchen. And he literally says, I'm that evil, white, straight male. Like this is, they're predicting the freaking discourse that's happening over and over and over again in our current society about like, you know, the white, straight male being basically like the devil's avatar, right? Um, this movie's doing that, predicting that.

• 1:03:44Bill Simmons?

  He's looking at me for it.

• 1:03:51Bill Simmons?

  More would say it's the best. The elevator opening in Demi Moore. And she just goes, going down.

• 1:03:58Speaker 03

  Bro.

• 1:03:59Bill Simmons?

  And he doesn't know whether he should get in or not. She's had just a couple of great entrances with her.

• 1:04:06Bill Simmons?

  I really love the sneaking into somebody's hotel room to get information. And then juxtapos with the person on their way up to the room and not knowing if they're gonna get out in time. Yeah, that always works for me. I also, I'm always into the

• 1:04:21Bill Simmons?

  the guy who comes home after obviously some sort of adultery moment has happened, it's like, I'm just gonna take a quick shower.

• 1:04:26Speaker 03

  Bruh.

• 1:04:28Bill Simmons?

  If I came home, barely talked to my wife, I was like, just quick shower, I'll be right back. My wife would be like, what the hell happened? I'm checking you for scratch marks.

• 1:04:35Speaker 03

  This is one of my biggest nitpicks. D Ray Davis, shout out D Ray Davis. D Ray Davis has a ridiculously funny standup bit about this. He goes, if you're gonna, if you're gonna be out there, you'll be cheating on your girl, messing around with your girl. You just gotta need to take showers all the time.

• 1:04:51Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:04:53Bill Simmons?

  Just dang it at 10 o'clock every night.

• 1:04:55Speaker 03

  Take showers all the time, random times.

• 1:04:56Bill Simmons?

  Establish an alibi.

• 1:04:58Speaker 03

  And you get in the shower and she asks you about it, you could be like, girl, I take showers all the time.

• 1:05:02Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:05:03Speaker 03

  But he comes home, he goes, he sends her on an errand. He's like, go get me a beer. So get away from the stink of Meredith.

• 1:05:11Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:11Speaker 03

  And the smell of wine on my breath. And the Wolverine scar I got, I'm gonna get in the shower.

• 1:05:16Bill Simmons?

  Well, and also, there's some good filmmaking in this movie, cuz he's in the shower and he's got the scratch marks. And then the wife comes in. And he's just like, and then he has to get out, he has the towel, and it's just, it's, he's just trying to hide the scratches for two minutes. It's compelling.

• 1:05:32Speaker 03

  And then you think.

• 1:05:34Bill Simmons?

  Why are you wearing a t-shirt?

• 1:05:35Speaker 03

  You know that he's ended up to his ears and the wife goes, who's Meredith? And you're like, oh my god, what? And she goes, Meredith just called and you, hey dog, think of something. Like, think of something to say. That whole scene is really good.

• 1:05:53Bill Simmons?

  Here's a, yeah, that's it. That's all I got. Cause we talked about the other stuff. The Fortune 3 Clap Award for most giftable moment. I honestly, the Demi Moore Evil 3D Avatar, I might have to start working into stuff.

• 1:06:07Speaker 04

  There was one, there's a moment at the end where, um, at the last board meeting where he basically lays out the case that she, you know, is an idiot and incompetent. She's the one that actually needs to be fired and he mouths the words bye bye to her.

• 1:06:22Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that would be a good one.

• 1:06:23Speaker 04

  That'd be a nice.

• 1:06:24Speaker 03

  I gotta go.

• 1:06:24Bill Simmons?

  Should I send that to the Lakers fan blog? After they give up 40 today to Atlanta?

• 1:06:29Speaker 03

  Like, I, I, mine is when she, uh, is leaning over the balcony when she just comes out of the room and she's going like, get back here.

• 1:06:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:40Speaker 03

  That's mine.

• 1:06:41Bill Simmons?

  Okay. Just for, just for your own personal pleasure?

• 1:06:43Speaker 03

  No, I'm just saying that's a good gift.

• 1:06:44Bill Simmons?

  Great shot order award, most cinematic shot. You already did it. I do like the escalator scene when they have the tape and they're going up and Demi Moore kinda knows something's up. And they ride up, they're going up and then you see them behind and she's just kinda like, hmm.

• 1:06:57Speaker 04

  I, uh, uh, there's another shot for me. It's like her first scene in the movie, like, um, before we see her, it's just a shot of her shoes.

• 1:07:06Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:06Speaker 04

  And Michael Douglas like looking down and he's like, wait a second. Who the, who is this?

• 1:07:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:12Speaker 04

  And then she's revealed and then we're off to the races.

• 1:07:15Bill Simmons?

  Den of Thieves Benihana Award, scene stealing location. That office building, which they built for the movie.

• 1:07:21Speaker 04

  Oh, from scratch.

• 1:07:21Bill Simmons?

  Built from scratch, cause Levinson wanted a set that had all glass so people could see what each other was doing. And he just felt like, so they built it and, uh,

• 1:07:30Speaker 04

  And they still kept, they're still on a $50 million budget. They built the whole office. Did they, did they shoot in Seattle?

• 1:07:36Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:36Speaker 04

  Huh.

• 1:07:38Bill Simmons?

  We rarely get to give out either of these awards and I'm gonna do both of them. The Elizabeth shoe is an Oxford Electrochemist Award.

• 1:07:47Bill Simmons?

  And the Vincent Chase Award for are we sure this character was actually good at his job? Both goes to Meredith. She's a former Miss Teen New Mexico, now working as a higher up in Malaysian conduit for a computer technology company. I'm gonna say it's a stretch.

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  Not into it.

• 1:08:03Bill Simmons?

  No.

• 1:08:03Speaker 03

  We don't know what happened after, she might have went to like MIT or something.

• 1:08:08Bill Simmons?

  Maybe.

• 1:08:09Speaker 04

  And again, sure. That's what, again, the movie wants you to think is like, it's not that she's some excellent worker. Um, she's an operator and a mover and like, you know, the older woman who eventually gets it, like when her and Tom are sitting there and they're watching this woman, Demi Moore's descent. And basically like, she's like, yeah, I got passed over too. I've been here longer. I'm more tenured, I'm more qualified, but this person came in and stole the show.

• 1:08:38Bill Simmons?

  Well, here's the case for her not being good at her job. She completely fucked up the product, right? She was like, yeah, yeah, let's use the cheaper stuff and we won't tell people. And then the product got delayed. Then she comes up with this crazy scheme to frame her ex lover.

• 1:08:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:53Bill Simmons?

  In a sexual harassment thing so that she could then blame it on him, I guess, for incompetence.

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  Then she's, she, she's on tape visiting the line. And she can't, she acts like, she's gotta act like she's never seen.

• 1:09:05Bill Simmons?

  Terrible, bad at her job. The Big Kahuna Burger Award, best use of food or drink, the 91 bottle, 91 Palmyra, just huge.

• 1:09:12Speaker 04

  Perfect.

• 1:09:14Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:09:15Speaker 04

  She, oh, and when she hands him the, the glass, um, and he's like, wow, you got this on deck. And she's like, I, I like to keep the boys below me happy.

• 1:09:28Speaker 04

  This is too good.

• 1:09:30Bill Simmons?

  Butch's girlfriend award, weak link of the film. For me, we already mentioned it. I don't know why they had to do the, like, if you're actually just fundamentally looking at this as a movie, you don't need to do the sexual harassment plot. You just blame him for the CD-ROMs being fucked up, blind sign him at the end and he gets fired.

• 1:09:44Speaker 03

  But the reality is, if you don't do the sexual harassment plot, you.

• 1:09:48Bill Simmons?

  You don't have a movie.

• 1:09:49Speaker 03

  You don't have a, you don't have a movie.

• 1:09:50Bill Simmons?

  You don't have a poster, you don't have an ad campaign.

• 1:09:52Speaker 03

  I hate to say this, but the weak link of the movie is the wife.

• 1:09:55Bill Simmons?

  Oh, I had her in What's Age The Worst.

• 1:09:57Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:09:58Bill Simmons?

  Oh, so I told Carrie when I was about to come to work today, I was like, there's a take that Van's gonna have that maybe I've worked with Van too long, but I know exactly what the take's gonna be. So go ahead.

• 1:10:10Speaker 03

  Like, the, the, the wife is the weak link of the movie, right? Okay, because number one. She can't really feel, she doesn't really know, she's not in Demi Moore's league. Right, and, and, and she gets it, and she understands that, but she, she doesn't really add anything in any way. She, she wants to be a ride or die, but then at the same time, she's being a nag and gag. Which we don't like.

• 1:10:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:35Speaker 03

  And then, like, she doesn't really, part of me is like, he should have gone with Demi Moore. And formed a power couple.

• 1:10:46Bill Simmons?

  I, I have that coming up, um, something like that. My issue with her was, I didn't feel like she was pissed off enough.

• 1:10:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, I, I.

• 1:10:55Bill Simmons?

  Especially the one deposition where Demi Moore is like, I remember I told him that his wife, he said his wife hadn't lost the baby weight yet.

• 1:11:03Speaker 03

  So if we're, if we're comparing her to Triple Horn or to, um.

• 1:11:07Bill Simmons?

  Triple Horn's another one.

• 1:11:08Speaker 03

  Well, but, but Triple Horn was different though. Triple Horn, eh, in, in Basic Instinct, was a constant reminder of who he really was.

• 1:11:18Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:11:19Speaker 03

  The wife here doesn't really do that. She kind of vacillates back and forth and then she's out of the movie.

• 1:11:24Bill Simmons?

  Doesn't seem to know his history either.

• 1:11:25Speaker 04

  If I have a charitable view of what the movie's trying to do with this sexual harassment thing, it's like, we think dudes are too Neanderthal in nature to understand sexual harassment at a high level. So let's turn the tables and make it a dude who's being sexually harassed and can't do anything about it. Right, and so it's like, your job and your higher ups are coming after you. And then, there's the people closest to you like, well, did you really? Like, maybe you made the person think that you kind of did want it.

• 1:11:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:11:55Speaker 04

  It's kind of sounds like you might have been.

• 1:11:57Bill Simmons?

  Why'd you go up there?

• 1:11:58Speaker 04

  That's what it felt like the wife was doing, where she's like, at first she believed it, but then when she sat in the deposition, it's like, maybe you did want it, maybe that's what I felt like her role was. It's like, even the people closest to you start questioning your integrity and whether you deserved it or not.

• 1:12:12Speaker 03

  The Dennis Miller thought was something, I, I just be honest with you. The Dennis Miller thought was something that people have been talking about, because I remember in an actual real case, which was Mike Tyson's case with Desiree Washington. There was he like he had invited her up there. It was like two o'clock and they were gonna play board games or something like that. And none of this excuses anything, you know, that that but I remember people having the argument about.

• 1:12:39Bill Simmons?

  Exactly.

• 1:12:40Speaker 03

  Why would you go to somebody's room at that time? It's a poor argument to have, but that was Dennis Miller's.

• 1:12:45Bill Simmons?

  It was a it was a nineties argument.

• 1:12:47Speaker 03

  It was a nineties argument, yeah.

• 1:12:48Bill Simmons?

  She was a little too dutiful, the wife, and a little too forgiving. Especially near the end. I just feel like there would have been a scene where.

• 1:12:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:12:57Bill Simmons?

  Where, I don't know, she's she asked him for some coffee or he asked her for some coffee and she's just mad. She's like, why didn't you ask your whore to get the coffee?

• 1:13:08Bill Simmons?

  And just like she just starts screaming at him for no reason, which definitely probably happened.

• 1:13:13Speaker 04

  As as as somebody who's been chewed out a time or two by a significant other, I tend to agree with you. Maybe a little bit too lenient.

• 1:13:22Bill Simmons?

  Uh, what's age the worst? Just C D Rom's being a crucial plot point.

• 1:13:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:13:29Bill Simmons?

  I had the Donald Sutherland trying to kiss me nightmare. The full circle movement uh moment where at the end the assistant slaps Michael Douglas on the ass. It's like, oh, we've come full circle. Terrible moment.

• 1:13:39Speaker 03

  We all do it.

• 1:13:40Bill Simmons?

  The endings, the ending email, daddy, we miss you, a family. So corny. I would have told Levinson like, dude, let's just just end it when she's.

• 1:13:51Speaker 03

  The movie horseshoes that way. It starts like a Disney movie and ends like one.

• 1:13:55Bill Simmons?

  A friend being Arthur Friend, tacky. Any other what's age the worst?

• 1:13:59Speaker 04

  The Sonics, man. And when I saw that ghost song, I was like.

• 1:14:03Bill Simmons?

  That could also been a what's age the best.

• 1:14:04Speaker 04

  Yeah. Seattle loves the Sonics. They still do.

• 1:14:09Bill Simmons?

  Um, the Ruffle of Hannah Rubinek Partridge, overacting word. Douglas wins it multiple times.

• 1:14:14Speaker 04

  You think it's Douglas?

• 1:14:15Bill Simmons?

  Who do you think it is?

• 1:14:16Speaker 04

  Donald Sutherland. He's too cartoonishly evil.

• 1:14:20Bill Simmons?

  What about him yelling at when he's yelling at his wife and he and he yells at the maid, come on down here.

• 1:14:25Speaker 04

  Listen, it's white male rage. I don't think that's that's.

• 1:14:29Bill Simmons?

  So you go southern.

• 1:14:30Speaker 04

  I go southern because in that scene where they're talking about crushing Tom. And he's like, we want to crush him. And then he grabs his subordinate's dick.

• 1:14:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, that is a moment.

• 1:14:41Speaker 03

  Come on, bro. I'm gonna zag. I think it's Dylan Baker. And because he is so swarmy. Yeah. He is, from the moment he steps into frame, you're like, that's the guy I'm not supposed to like.

• 1:14:54Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:14:55Speaker 03

  He is laying it on.

• 1:14:56Bill Simmons?

  We're friends.

• 1:14:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:58Bill Simmons?

  Was there a better title for this movie? No.

• 1:15:00Speaker 03

  No. Nah, it's perfect.

• 1:15:02Bill Simmons?

  Can you dig at a word for most memorable quote?

• 1:15:06Bill Simmons?

  I think we know what it is.

• 1:15:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:09Speaker 03

  Bill, give it to us, though.

• 1:15:10Bill Simmons?

  The C R thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford. How to take a word? Mine, I already gave. I think Demi Moore's two best roles ever were sitting almost fire in this movie.

• 1:15:19Speaker 04

  Um, I love that take. Uh, mine is Michael Douglas and not Frank Sinatra's actually the coolest man who's ever lived.

• 1:15:26Bill Simmons?

  Just for being able to pull off these roles over and over again?

• 1:15:30Speaker 03

  I believe that these women want to fuck him.

• 1:15:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:33Speaker 03

  And I believe that this guy has a burning desire to fuck these women. Every single, like, it's in him. It's, it's pouring out of this guy. Like, his, he, he's just thirsty. And then, of course, you know, he marries Catherine Zeta Jones.

• 1:15:47Bill Simmons?

  Well, he is like, he's probably the number one actor ever where you're watching the sex scene thinking like, I wonder if they actually like fuck during this.

• 1:15:54Speaker 03

  So this is my, it's almost yours, but it's different. Like, mine is that I think he is a stone cold freak in real life. Yeah. Remember when he got mouth cancer from, like, remember that?

• 1:16:09Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:10Speaker 03

  He's a stone, stone cold freak in real life. That's why he is so good.

• 1:16:15Bill Simmons?

  As a freak?

• 1:16:16Speaker 03

  In the, like, in these roles. There's a version of the American president. I've always said that. There's a version of that that's an erotic thriller.

• 1:16:24Bill Simmons?

  Cheating American president?

• 1:16:25Speaker 03

  That's even better, an even better version of the movie.

• 1:16:30Bill Simmons?

  You know why we know he's a freak? Because of the basic instinct scene. When he just walks to the bathroom naked and the, and the director's like, yo, Michael, we can kind of see your balls swaying during this. And he's like, let it fly, man. Keep it in. Keep it in. Sounds great. Hey, Roxy, let's have a talk, man to man. Uh, casting what ifs. Milos Forman originally attached to direct.

• 1:16:54Speaker 03

  Interesting.

• 1:16:55Bill Simmons?

  But left due to creative differences and then Levinson got hired. So originally set to play Meredith, Annette Bening.

• 1:17:03Speaker 03

  Doesn't work.

• 1:17:03Bill Simmons?

  Got pregnant and dropped out and then ended up making American president with him a year later.

• 1:17:08Speaker 03

  Beautiful. A fantastic actress, probably pound for pound a better actress than Demi Moore, but it doesn't quite work.

• 1:17:14Speaker 04

  No, she can't know.

• 1:17:16Bill Simmons?

  Demi Moore ended up getting it over Gina Davis and Michelle Pfeiffer.

• 1:17:20Speaker 03

  Pfeiffer would have worked.

• 1:17:21Speaker 04

  Pfeiffer could have worked.

• 1:17:24Speaker 03

  Pfeiffer would have worked.

• 1:17:24Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if she does it at that point in her career.

• 1:17:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:17:26Bill Simmons?

  She's in her, I gotta save kids at a high school.

• 1:17:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:17:30Bill Simmons?

  While Coolio song plays.

• 1:17:31Speaker 03

  But you had a woman from Scarface?

• 1:17:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:17:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:35Bill Simmons?

  Eighties Michelle Pfeiffer.

• 1:17:36Speaker 03

  Oh, Fabulous Baker Boys, Michelle Pfeiffer.

• 1:17:38Bill Simmons?

  And then Michael Crichton wrote the character because he knew they were going to turn the book into a movie as he was writing it. Cause he's like, I got this and he wrote the character Mark for Dennis Miller in his head as he was writing it.

• 1:17:48Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 1:17:51Bill Simmons?

  Well, it's always a pleasure to give this a word out. The Van Lathan Award, did this movie need more black people?

• 1:17:57Speaker 03

  It had one guy that I saw sitting behind somebody. And he literally, so one guy was sitting behind him and I could tell that he, whoever this extra was or this day player, was trying to let his people back in Cincinnati know that he was in the movie.

• 1:18:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:12Speaker 03

  Cause he's sitting behind her and, and he's like, he's trying to look, he's trying to see. He's getting like, he's trying to look when they had the thing and the black guy that they had in it was one too many. We need to stay.

• 1:18:27Speaker 04

  That was my answer too, no.

• 1:18:29Speaker 03

  We need to stay out of all of this business.

• 1:18:31Speaker 04

  Any black people in any of, any of, involved in any of this stuff.

• 1:18:35Bill Simmons?

  Best that guy award, the nerdy guy in Douglas's team who played Angel, whatever.

• 1:18:40Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:18:41Bill Simmons?

  His name's Nicholas Sadler. I know that guy from different movies. I don't even know where else I've seen him, but he's like a great that guy.

• 1:18:47Speaker 04

  Um, the, the, the son, the, the Con Lee Jr. Dude. The, the, the, basically the son of the CEO.

• 1:18:54Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:55Speaker 04

  Comes in and he's like doing all the talking.

• 1:18:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he's one of those guys.

• 1:18:58Speaker 04

  He's a that guy. And the lady, Jo Erle is his name.

• 1:19:01Speaker 03

  Is Dylan Baker that guy or is Dylan Baker Dylan Baker?

• 1:19:03Bill Simmons?

  Dylan Baker's Dylan Baker.

• 1:19:04Speaker 04

  For me, he's that guy.

• 1:19:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:19:06Speaker 04

  Cause I had to Google his name, name.

• 1:19:08Bill Simmons?

  Dion Wait- Dion Waiters award.

• 1:19:12Bill Simmons?

  I don't know if Tom's lawyer is in it too much, but she's a candidate.

• 1:19:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's the two lawyers for me.

• 1:19:17Bill Simmons?

  The other lawyer, angry semi sexist laid off guy in the ferry, the first scene.

• 1:19:22Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's good.

• 1:19:24Bill Simmons?

  My pick would be Dennis Miller. I think he's not in it quite enough. And every time he comes in, he's just fucking throwing sliders and curveballs.

• 1:19:31Speaker 03

  Of the award, for sure.

• 1:19:33Bill Simmons?

  Movie needs him, otherwise it's a pretty like stiff movie.

• 1:19:35Speaker 03

  He clinched it during the scene at the dinner where he tries to out Michael Douglas to his wife. That's where he clinched it. And then, by the way, at the end, all of Michael Douglas's people turn on him. Did she get to you? Did she get to you? Did she get to you? And then at the end.

• 1:19:50Bill Simmons?

  He's fine with it.

• 1:19:51Speaker 03

  They're boys again.

• 1:19:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. Recasting couch director city. I think this would have been an amazing David Fincher movie, and he wasn't quite David Fincher yet.

• 1:20:01Speaker 03

  You're dark.

• 1:20:02Bill Simmons?

  But if it's David Fincher in the late 90s, maybe even the game David Fincher, just being given this movie. Which the game's only three years after this, but I think this would, I think in Fincher's hands, this movie is like one of the great 90s movies.

• 1:20:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think freaky directors like De Palma.

• 1:20:21Bill Simmons?

  De Palma would have been good too.

• 1:20:23Speaker 03

  He might have, he might have took this over the freaky edge.

• 1:20:26Bill Simmons?

  More sex, yeah.

• 1:20:27Speaker 03

  You know.

• 1:20:28Bill Simmons?

  There would have been a following scene throughout Seattle where he's just following Demi Moore around the city.

• 1:20:34Speaker 03

  I think the movie's definitely a lot freakier if De Palma does it, but like.

• 1:20:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, because Levinson was not, he was like, did his natural, like, diner.

• 1:20:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, like his.

• 1:20:43Bill Simmons?

  Rain Man.

• 1:20:44Speaker 03

  The movie has a brightness to it and a lightness to it, like, that it probably shouldn't have, honestly.

• 1:20:51Bill Simmons?

  We probably should have talked about Levinson more because he was one of the big commercial directors of, of really mid 80s through the 90s, peaking with Rain Man.

• 1:20:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:00Bill Simmons?

  Which won just about every award. Um, and it was a big deal when he was directing this movie, but I don't know if this was, I don't feel like Barry Levinson is a horny guy.

• 1:21:09Speaker 03

  No, even that movie Rain Man is dealing with some, like, unbelievably heavy, heavy, heavy subject matter. But there's a lightness to his touch that makes the movie palatable to a much, much larger audience. And they, this movie kinda, kinda didn't need that. But if, maybe, if, honestly, if it is Fincher, it maybe doesn't make $250 million or whatever.

• 1:21:32Bill Simmons?

  Well, he basically makes this with Gone Girl, right? It's a version of the same kind of movie.

• 1:21:36Speaker 03

  But we've changed at that point.

• 1:21:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:39Speaker 04

  And, you know, I'm looking on his IMDB and stuff that he's produced and it's like a lot of TV shows that I've personally enjoyed like Monsieur Spade and Dope Sick.

• 1:21:48Bill Simmons?

  He's about homicide.

• 1:21:49Speaker 04

  Immortal.

• 1:21:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:50Speaker 04

  Shades of Blue.

• 1:21:51Bill Simmons?

  Hmm.

• 1:21:52Speaker 04

  With Ray Liotta and J Lo, where Ray Liotta is just like an insane corrupt NYPD cop and J Lo's trying to like, keep it together as his like partner and team member.

• 1:22:02Bill Simmons?

  I just told you.

• 1:22:03Speaker 04

  What?

• 1:22:03Bill Simmons?

  Nineteen ninety-two, Liotta's last movie. I watched it on an airplane on the way to Denver.

• 1:22:08Speaker 03

  Ninety-two.

• 1:22:09Bill Simmons?

  Tyrese. Ray Liotta, Clint Eastwood's son.

• 1:22:13Speaker 03

  Scott Eastwood, yeah.

• 1:22:14Bill Simmons?

  There's a heist. And it's not very good and I loved it.

• 1:22:17Speaker 03

  Bill loved it.

• 1:22:18Bill Simmons?

  I loved it for an airplane on a small square was perfect.

• 1:22:22Speaker 03

  I didn't realize that you were such a Tyrese guy.

• 1:22:25Bill Simmons?

  I like Tyrese.

• 1:22:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:26Bill Simmons?

  I think he's had some, some good actor moments. Is that like controversial opinion?

• 1:22:31Speaker 04

  No, he's just kind of made himself into a caricature of.

• 1:22:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but I think there was more talent there than.

• 1:22:38Speaker 04

  Definitely a talented cat.

• 1:22:40Speaker 03

  I mean, he's like, I mean, he's having a, a great career. He's just.

• 1:22:43Speaker 04

  He's, he's, he's.

• 1:22:44Speaker 03

  As a public figure, he's a funny guy.

• 1:22:45Bill Simmons?

  Every time we talk about any black actor, Van always gets a look on his face like I'm gonna be hearing from him later when we.

• 1:22:51Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, Van knows these people personally.

• 1:22:53Speaker 03

  But, but, I mean, Tyrese has had a, he's one of those guys that's had a sneaky underrated movie career.

• 1:22:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't even know if it's sneaky.

• 1:23:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:01Bill Simmons?

  I think.

• 1:23:02Speaker 03

  No, it's true.

• 1:23:03Bill Simmons?

  He's in the Fast franchise.

• 1:23:04Speaker 03

  Fast franchise.

• 1:23:05Bill Simmons?

  But I thought Baby Boy, he's really good in that movie.

• 1:23:08Speaker 03

  Bill, you've never seen Baby Boy?

• 1:23:09Bill Simmons?

  What the fuck? Of course I've seen Baby Boy.

• 1:23:11Speaker 03

  You, you.

• 1:23:12Bill Simmons?

  Baby Boy's a real movie. Yeah, that's a crossover movie. Come on.

• 1:23:16Speaker 03

  It's a crossover.

• 1:23:16Speaker 04

  I think.

• 1:23:17Bill Simmons?

  I saw those movies.

• 1:23:18Speaker 03

  You think it's a crossover? So like, how about this? Can you commit to the Baby Boy rewatchables?

• 1:23:23Bill Simmons?

  I haven't seen it in a long time.

• 1:23:24Speaker 03

  Let's lock that, you know what I'm saying?

• 1:23:25Bill Simmons?

  I saw it in the theater though.

• 1:23:27Speaker 03

  You saw Baby Boy in the theater?

• 1:23:29Bill Simmons?

  I didn't have a lot going on in the nineties.

• 1:23:32Speaker 03

  I fuck with Baby Boy. I love Baby Boy. That's just not, when you think of the Singleton movies that you would have saw in the theaters, I wouldn't have thought.

• 1:23:39Bill Simmons?

  Well, Poetic Justice was first day because of Tupac.

• 1:23:41Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, first, yeah.

• 1:23:42Bill Simmons?

  And also it was so close to Boys in the Hood. Like that was like an event.

• 1:23:46Speaker 03

  But John Singleton, because we did hire learning, um, John Singleton.

• 1:23:49Bill Simmons?

  Saw that in the theater too.

• 1:23:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was appointment viewing in the nineties with the movies that he made, you know?

• 1:23:55Bill Simmons?

  Half ass, oh, I skipped one. Romo Collinsworth or someone else for the director's commentary?

• 1:24:01Speaker 04

  This is easy for me. It's Quentin. It's always Quentin for me. Quentin narrating some of these scenes, dude.

• 1:24:10Speaker 03

  Tom Tarantino?

• 1:24:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:24:12Speaker 03

  He a real life freak.

• 1:24:12Speaker 04

  It's always Quentin. Um, so somebody on the internet like spliced up um, his commentary on King of New York that he did with you guys.

• 1:24:21Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:21Speaker 04

  On the rewatchables. And I just watched that like two days ago.

• 1:24:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:24Speaker 04

  And when this guy gets going on a movie, on an actor, on a director, it's riveting.

• 1:24:30Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, to me, it's Collinsworth for me.

• 1:24:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:35Speaker 03

  Because I need the play by play of the actual scene.

• 1:24:37Bill Simmons?

  I was thinking Romo.

• 1:24:38Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:24:41Speaker 04

  He's rubbing her shoulders, Jim. The one's open, Jim. Oh, she touches him, Jim. Stuff's going down.

• 1:24:51Speaker 03

  His dick's still hard, Jim.

• 1:24:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, let's go.

• 1:24:55Bill Simmons?

  Half ass earned a research. The 1991 Palme d'Or, these days, a $600 bottle.

• 1:25:01Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:25:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:03Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:25:05Bill Simmons?

  Industrial Light and Magic made all the VR stuff. I don't think they brag about that in the offices.

• 1:25:09Speaker 03

  Best moment.

• 1:25:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's.

• 1:25:10Bill Simmons?

  Uh, filmed in and around Seattle.

• 1:25:14Bill Simmons?

  Films Marketing touted it as the first Hollywood movie with major stars to address the topic of sexual harassment. I'm telling you, this was a crazy time for movies where it's like, this is the first AIDS movie. This is the first sexual harassment movie.

• 1:25:27Speaker 03

  Sliver, the movie where we talk about video voyeurism.

• 1:25:30Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:25:30Speaker 03

  Like there was.

• 1:25:30Bill Simmons?

  We didn't have the internet. So anytime Hollywood tackled a topic, it was like a big deal. It's like, oh, we're doing this.

• 1:25:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:25:37Bill Simmons?

  Third most rented movie of 1995 and the number one rented movie in Baton Rouge.

• 1:25:42Speaker 03

  Oh, I was about to say, I was, Showgirls was one of my top rented ones.

• 1:25:46Bill Simmons?

  Third of 1995. Uh, a decade later, Demi Moore was sued for sexual harassment by the caretaker of her Idaho ranch. Um, the case was dismissed.

• 1:25:56Speaker 03

  Wait, what?

• 1:25:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, just passed not long. And then, uh, Demi Moore gave birth to her third child a month before she was cast and biked 28 miles every morning pre-dawn to get back in shape for the film.

• 1:26:10Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 1:26:11Bill Simmons?

  Kudos.

• 1:26:12Speaker 04

  Dedication.

• 1:26:13Bill Simmons?

  To her.

• 1:26:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:26:14Bill Simmons?

  We'll take one more break, then we do Apex Mountain.

• 1:26:22Bill Simmons?

  Apex Mountain, Michael Douglas, no.

• 1:26:25Speaker 03

  Nah.

• 1:26:27Bill Simmons?

  Demi Moore.

• 1:26:30Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's right around here. It's Indecent Proposal. It's this movie. It's like, if she's in a movie and she's on the poster, it's making $200 million.

• 1:26:39Speaker 03

  For some reason, I can't call her Apex Mountain.

• 1:26:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, cuz it's definitely not the movie that she's most associated with.

• 1:26:45Bill Simmons?

  I think it's probably Indecent Proposal. Cuz that, that's barely a movie. And somehow, that movie did really well.

• 1:26:51Speaker 03

  It's not Ghost?

• 1:26:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. So the problem is, we've done all these movies and we've probably already litigated this. Yeah, it might be Ghost.

• 1:27:00Speaker 03

  It's not, it, it, it.

• 1:27:01Bill Simmons?

  It might be Ghost.

• 1:27:02Speaker 04

  When people think of Demi Moore, they don't think of Disclosure. So it can't be after this movie.

• 1:27:06Bill Simmons?

  I was just trying to think of, when did she have the most power?

• 1:27:11Bill Simmons?

  Coming out of this movie, where this is when she gets the 12 million for striptease?

• 1:27:14Speaker 04

  So much money, yeah.

• 1:27:16Bill Simmons?

  That's what I was thinking.

• 1:27:17Speaker 03

  She gets the 12 million for striptease.

• 1:27:18Bill Simmons?

  She sets the record for a salary after this movie. So it might be this one. Sexual harassment movies?

• 1:27:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:25Bill Simmons?

  It's gotta be.

• 1:27:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:26Bill Simmons?

  Older Donald Sutherland. He's got this, and he's got Six Degrees of Separation.

• 1:27:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:31Bill Simmons?

  A movie that we're gonna do on the rewatchables at some point. Uh, so I think it's right around here. He's got the beard. He's got that smarmy, like that weird posture. Always in a suit, arms crossed.

• 1:27:41Speaker 03

  Even his boss. When I think Donald Sutherland, cuz he was, I, I don't know why, I think Outbreak, man. Be compassionate, but be compassionate globally. When he was five.

• 1:27:52Bill Simmons?

  I always think Invasion of Body Snatchers.

• 1:27:56Bill Simmons?

  Virtual reality, no. Actor Dennis Miller, I think yes, cuz he's got this in the net.

• 1:28:01Speaker 03

  The net, yeah.

• 1:28:02Bill Simmons?

  91 Palmyra, definitely.

• 1:28:05Bill Simmons?

  The Miss Teenage New Mexico Pageant? I think this was the peak. When was that ever mentioned? Who even knew they had it?

• 1:28:12Bill Simmons?

  Uh, anything else?

• 1:28:13Speaker 03

  Seattle as a setting?

• 1:28:15Bill Simmons?

  You know, so Singles comes out this year too.

• 1:28:17Speaker 03

  Singles, yeah.

• 1:28:18Bill Simmons?

  Shawn Kemp and G.P. are in place. Ken Griffey is there.

• 1:28:22Speaker 03

  Oh, no, Sleepless in Seattle. What am I talking about?

• 1:28:25Bill Simmons?

  But that's, this is the year before.

• 1:28:26Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:28:27Bill Simmons?

  It's this, this is Starbucks is starting, this is Amazon is getting ready. This is it.

• 1:28:32Speaker 03

  This is, Seattle's a cool place.

• 1:28:33Bill Simmons?

  You're buying Seattle stock right here.

• 1:28:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:28:38Bill Simmons?

  Cruise or Hanks?

• 1:28:40Speaker 03

  Aw shit.

• 1:28:41Speaker 04

  In this movie, specifically? Tom Cruise. Like, the aggrieved, you know, like-

• 1:28:47Bill Simmons?

  I had Cruise as well.

• 1:28:48Speaker 04

  Incredulous, just lecturing people, like, that's Cruise.

• 1:28:53Speaker 03

  I get it.

• 1:28:54Speaker 04

  It's just the sex part.

• 1:28:55Speaker 03

  It probably works, but sometimes the thing that puts me off Cruise, it's probably Cruise, right? Over Hanks? But sometimes the thing that puts me off about Cruise and Hanks is that Cruise is so handsome that the guy who plays the lead here has to have some sort of everyman type of situation? But Tom Hanks just doesn't work in the role? So, and Tom Cruise does, that's the thing. But Cruise, you need a guy that's like, what did she say about him, uh, at the beginning of the movie? She says, "You're handsome, but you're not irresistible." And that's like the perfect guy to like, to play the role.

• 1:29:30Speaker 04

  It's just for me, I could just see Tom Cruise yelling at his wife, yelling at his bosses, yelling at his subordinates.

• 1:29:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he gets over it.

• 1:29:36Speaker 04

  That's what he does so well.

• 1:29:39Speaker 03

  What were Cruise's, did he ever?

• 1:29:42Bill Simmons?

  He never had a movie like this.

• 1:29:43Speaker 03

  Never did he, he never did?

• 1:29:44Bill Simmons?

  I watched Shut was the closest.

• 1:29:46Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, Rock Thriller, that's his Rock Thriller. I was watching that.

• 1:29:49Bill Simmons?

  Racehorse, rock band wrestler, fantasy team name. Alchemax is pretty strong for a horse.

• 1:29:55Speaker 03

  Alchemax is strong for a rock band, too.

• 1:29:57Bill Simmons?

  Alchemax sounds good.

• 1:29:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:29:59Bill Simmons?

  Going to see Alchemax tonight. Picky Nits. Meredith would not have made sure that the phone was hung up?

• 1:30:07Bill Simmons?

  Phone just dangling?

• 1:30:08Speaker 04

  It's early cell phones, people don't really know how to work them like that, dude, that's-

• 1:30:13Speaker 03

  The whole, the, one of my nitpicks is the whole, uh, part with the, the, we got it all on tape type of situation. "I've been trying to get in touch with you, I can't get in touch with you, I got the whole thing on tape."

• 1:30:27Bill Simmons?

  I had that as well.

• 1:30:28Speaker 03

  "Your whole career is in the balance, I have a tape that-"

• 1:30:31Bill Simmons?

  I brought the tape home from work so I could listen to it a couple times. Here it is.

• 1:30:35Speaker 04

  Or Demi Moore on the, what, what, like some kind of bicycle?

• 1:30:40Bill Simmons?

  The Stairmaster, just laying out her whole plan?

• 1:30:42Speaker 04

  And yeah, they're just literally just saying all the evil things they've done-

• 1:30:46Bill Simmons?

  So tomorrow, we're gonna set up Tom. And blame the product launch on him.

• 1:30:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:30:52Speaker 03

  By the way, just, just, just so we don't gloss over it. The dude who had the tape is a freak.

• 1:30:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, he definitely masturbated. He masturbated the tape.

• 1:31:00Speaker 03

  No, he said it.

• 1:31:01Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:02Speaker 03

  In the movie, he goes, I have the tape and I was listening to it with my girlfriend a couple of times.

• 1:31:08Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:31:08Speaker 03

  It's a freak.

• 1:31:09Bill Simmons?

  Sick.

• 1:31:10Speaker 03

  Freaky dog.

• 1:31:12Bill Simmons?

  The legal proceedings just started in 24 hours. We had a lawyer and a judge and we're just ready to roll. The merger's coming. Let's get a legal.

• 1:31:21Speaker 03

  The movie takes place over the course of one week.

• 1:31:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, it's like four days.

• 1:31:26Speaker 03

  Up and completely adjudicated.

• 1:31:28Bill Simmons?

  Lawyers, depositions.

• 1:31:29Speaker 03

  Lawyers, depots and the whole no fucking way.

• 1:31:32Speaker 04

  Another thing is like as the case is going on, they're all still in the office and they're all acting like normal. Like when he gets in the elevator with Demi Moore, like somebody who just accused you of sexual harassment in the workplace, you're getting in an elevator with her alone? Immunitarily like.

• 1:31:47Speaker 03

  Immediately somebody's placed on leave.

• 1:31:49Speaker 04

  It's, it's not even like he's on there first and she just big boys and, and gets on. She's on there and he just goes, I'm just gonna voluntarily hop in the elevator with somebody who falsely accused me of that. That's crazy.

• 1:32:01Bill Simmons?

  The settlement offer, once he has the tape and it's clear that, you know, whatever. He gets his job back at a hundred thousand. He's like fist pumping. I'm like, I'm going for like five, six million.

• 1:32:12Speaker 04

  This dude's.

• 1:32:13Bill Simmons?

  Give me more stock shares for the merger.

• 1:32:16Speaker 04

  One million? I mean, one hundred thousand? Like, no.

• 1:32:19Bill Simmons?

  Anything else?

• 1:32:20Speaker 03

  No, my, by far, my two biggest nitpicks were the tape and how quickly.

• 1:32:24Bill Simmons?

  In the legal time.

• 1:32:25Speaker 03

  This was, uh, like.

• 1:32:27Speaker 04

  Adjudicated.

• 1:32:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:28Bill Simmons?

  Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast or untouchable. I gotta say, Presumed Innocent has proven that we can bring these back.

• 1:32:35Speaker 04

  Literally, this is what it says. We need the presumed innocent treatment.

• 1:32:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:40Speaker 04

  Tomorrow.

• 1:32:41Bill Simmons?

  This should be season two of Presumed Innocent.

• 1:32:42Speaker 03

  I would love it as a prestige show. You could.

• 1:32:45Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 1:32:46Speaker 03

  Cast too hot. You could go a lot deeper with things. You could play a lot. I would love it.

• 1:32:52Speaker 04

  My man Fosbender's doing TV shows now. I would love to see him in the lead role of this.

• 1:32:57Bill Simmons?

  Uh, is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Sid Goldberg, Sam Jackson, JT Walsh, Nell, Byron Mello, Harling Mays, Eva Lafferty, Ramon Raymond, Long Legs, or Philip Baker Hall? I guess we could have put Dylan Baker in there too. Um.

• 1:33:16Bill Simmons?

  Can I give you long legs?

• 1:33:17Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, go for it.

• 1:33:26Bill Simmons?

  Somebody's got the tip.

• 1:33:30Bill Simmons?

  You're having sex in it.

• 1:33:35Bill Simmons?

  I have long legs for a bandit.

• 1:33:37Speaker 03

  Oh, my goodness.

• 1:33:39Bill Simmons?

  Just want to ask her who gets it.

• 1:33:41Speaker 03

  Demi Moore, man.

• 1:33:43Bill Simmons?

  I have Demi Moore as well.

• 1:33:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I had Douglas.

• 1:33:47Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:33:47Bill Simmons?

  Oh.

• 1:33:48Speaker 03

  I had Michael Douglas.

• 1:33:49Bill Simmons?

  You love every man, Mike.

• 1:33:50Speaker 03

  You love him.

• 1:33:50Speaker 04

  I do, I do. I just appreciate, I appreciate the guy that literally gets caught with his pants down, but is still fighting tooth and nail as if like, he, because if he's to be believed, he did absolutely nothing wrong. He was the model worker. He's always been that, and these people are out to get him. I just love the steadfastness.

• 1:34:13Bill Simmons?

  He does reconsider maybe some of his interactions with his assistant.

• 1:34:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:34:17Bill Simmons?

  He apologized to her.

• 1:34:18Speaker 03

  There is an enlightenment that comes along.

• 1:34:19Bill Simmons?

  Hey, sorry, I slapped down the ass with the files there. My bad.

• 1:34:21Speaker 03

  And the moment that he sees his assistant in there.

• 1:34:24Speaker 04

  That's a great, his face.

• 1:34:25Speaker 03

  His face like, oh my God, I've slapped her on her ass before.

• 1:34:28Bill Simmons?

  I like the assistant. I thought she was a good actress. I don't know what happened to her.

• 1:34:33Speaker 03

  I really liked her.

• 1:34:33Speaker 04

  Her name's Jacqueline Kim.

• 1:34:34Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:35Speaker 03

  I really liked her. I don't think that we can pass it up.

• 1:34:39Bill Simmons?

  Probably an answerable questions.

• 1:34:43Bill Simmons?

  Did we ever figure out a really good way to do Malaysian CD-ROMs? Or we just, it was just a mess for the whole 90s?

• 1:34:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:34:53Bill Simmons?

  Elizabeth Sun, did he become Jeff Bezos or some other 2000s billionaire?

• 1:34:57Speaker 03

  It seems like he was right there around the boom, you know?

• 1:35:01Bill Simmons?

  Might have started something. Had like 200 billion bucks.

• 1:35:03Speaker 04

  He's definitely living off his Apple stock after the iPhone and the iPod go crazy. Sure.

• 1:35:09Bill Simmons?

  Did Meredith become our vice president nominee in 2008 on either side?

• 1:35:15Speaker 03

  Wow. Could have been. Did she come back and buy the company like she said she would?

• 1:35:21Bill Simmons?

  Did she become a billionaire?

• 1:35:23Speaker 03

  Did she become a billionaire?

• 1:35:24Bill Simmons?

  I feel like she bounces back pretty strong.

• 1:35:26Speaker 03

  I think she does too.

• 1:35:27Bill Simmons?

  She, she took two days to figure out, what did I, what did I do wrong here? And then solved it and then was doing great.

• 1:35:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. There's actually a, a version of this, like a sequel just around her. But it's like a Sex and the City type situation on HBO. Suddenly I see comes on at the beginning, she's taking on the city.

• 1:35:48Bill Simmons?

  Any other answerables?

• 1:35:50Speaker 04

  Um, no, not for me.

• 1:35:52Bill Simmons?

  Best double feature choice. I'm going with the net.

• 1:35:54Speaker 03

  The, the net's a good one.

• 1:35:55Bill Simmons?

  Let's just go with like, here's what we thought the internet was gonna be like in 1994.

• 1:35:59Speaker 04

  Internet movie.

• 1:36:01Bill Simmons?

  You could also do any of the everyman trilogy with Mike.

• 1:36:04Speaker 04

  I like, I, I, I picked Enemy of the State.

• 1:36:07Bill Simmons?

  Cause it's just. I like it. That's another good technology movie.

• 1:36:10Speaker 04

  Paranoia, technology, like, you know, these, these systems of power that's just gonna crush this regular guy. Just trying to get through the world and through his life. Yeah, that's what this movie kinda reminded me of.

• 1:36:23Bill Simmons?

  We did that one on the rewatchables a while ago and it's so funny how it sees surveillance. Where it's just like, it's the late nineties and everywhere you go, we'll be able to see what you're doing with our, these cameras. And it's like, you can't even do that now?

• 1:36:37Speaker 04

  I mean.

• 1:36:38Bill Simmons?

  Or maybe we're getting there at the Quivers Arena?

• 1:36:40Speaker 03

  You know, you are.

• 1:36:41Bill Simmons?

  No, but like Will Smith's like in a dressing room and they're like, they can zoom around the store and get in there.

• 1:36:46Speaker 04

  Soon as you leave out of this building, you're on camera.

• 1:36:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:50Speaker 03

  Like you're, you're.

• 1:36:51Speaker 04

  You're always on camera.

• 1:36:52Speaker 03

  And it's so funny when I'm watching all these interrogation videos, I'm, I'm watching the cops.

• 1:36:57Bill Simmons?

  He always drops that, like we.

• 1:36:59Speaker 03

  What?

• 1:36:59Bill Simmons?

  We have to explain the interrogation video.

• 1:37:01Speaker 04

  Are you talking like First Forty Eight or something?

• 1:37:03Speaker 03

  No, no, I go on YouTube and I watch interrogation videos.

• 1:37:06Bill Simmons?

  He likes seeing suspects get interrogated on YouTube. This is a YouTube search for bad.

• 1:37:11Speaker 04

  So is this like, so you could be prepared if the cops ever interrogate you?

• 1:37:15Bill Simmons?

  You like the dynamics of the interrogation.

• 1:37:17Speaker 03

  I just like to watch a cop use the read technique on a suspect to try to get information. And I learned so much. You're always on camera. And your phone is telling the police and everybody else where you are at all times during the day. Like, they know exactly where you are. So, but yeah, but my double feature choice, I ought to change it to the game because I hadn't thought about the game.

• 1:37:42Bill Simmons?

  The game's a good one, yeah.

• 1:37:43Speaker 03

  You know what? I will change it to that because I just had basic instinct, but that's literally basic.

• 1:37:47Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. The Indian Reds is not a Zouatne award for what happened the next day. I think eventually Meredith becomes the Senator in New Mexico.

• 1:37:56Bill Simmons?

  Like 2002 range?

• 1:37:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:37:58Bill Simmons?

  I think I think Tom gets divorced. I don't think the wife lets it go. I think it starts coming up.

• 1:38:04Speaker 04

  He takes the family to Napa and goes on like an insane wine bender.

• 1:38:09Bill Simmons?

  Like a sideways type bender?

• 1:38:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, and like.

• 1:38:12Speaker 03

  I think Tom leaves the business.

• 1:38:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:38:14Speaker 03

  I think I think I think they relocate to Ojai. They, he, his wife, I don't think the wife leaves him, but I do think that she sets an ultimatum that at this point you can't continue to be in the business like that. You gotta get out of it.

• 1:38:29Bill Simmons?

  She definitely goes on a girl's trip where things happen.

• 1:38:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:38:32Bill Simmons?

  There's a revenge girl's trip that she locks down.

• 1:38:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:37Bill Simmons?

  What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie?

• 1:38:40Speaker 04

  There's like a Sonics thing in his office that I thought was super cool in Tom Sanders' office. That was cool to me.

• 1:38:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I would want the basketball he has that makes no bouncing sound.

• 1:38:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:53Bill Simmons?

  He's just throwing it around the office. There's no sound at all. I would go with the Palmyra bottle if it was unopened. Just like movie, movie use bottle of wine.

• 1:39:04Speaker 03

  I can't say.

• 1:39:05Bill Simmons?

  Just, just say you did the bra, man.

• 1:39:07Speaker 03

  It's the ripped panties.

• 1:39:09Bill Simmons?

  All right. It's fine.

• 1:39:11Speaker 04

  You want the panties themselves?

• 1:39:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can.

• 1:39:13Speaker 04

  Lord have mercy.

• 1:39:14Speaker 03

  That's what I'm saying. I apologize to the audience sincerely.

• 1:39:19Bill Simmons?

  That was a Larry Sanders joke way a few years later. They were talking about Planet Hollywood. One of the characters said, so I can have lunch next to Demi Moore's ripped panties? He was already. Coach Finstock award, best life lesson. Don't ever assume what the internet's going to be like. Could possibly be one.

• 1:39:37Speaker 04

  Life lesson for me, um.

• 1:39:41Speaker 04

  Dennis Miller says 10 years from now, you're gonna need a forklift to get a hard on. And I'm gonna assume Michael Douglas is like 48. He's supposed to be in this movie.

• 1:39:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:51Speaker 04

  Probably 50. So that means in 20 years, I'm gonna need a forklift to get a hard on. So that's the life lesson for me.

• 1:39:57Speaker 03

  Technology's changed it, brother.

• 1:39:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:03Speaker 03

  My life lesson is very simple. Man, don't give your boss a shoulder up. Like, there's nothing that could good-

• 1:40:10Bill Simmons?

  The 7pm glass of wine.

• 1:40:11Speaker 03

  The 7pm glass of wine.

• 1:40:13Bill Simmons?

  It's a life lesson we knew, but somehow this movie did.

• 1:40:17Bill Simmons?

  Who won the movie?

• 1:40:19Speaker 03

  I think Demi Moore.

• 1:40:20Speaker 04

  For me, it's Levinson.

• 1:40:22Speaker 03

  For real?

• 1:40:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. I just love that this guy, like, nobody would try to do this nowadays. In terms of go out of your way to stake an opinion on all these weighty topics of women in the workplace.

• 1:40:38Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:38Speaker 04

  And sexual harassment and technology and corporate culture and mascot. Like, he has something to say about a bunch of weighty topics and like, that's what I like the most about the movie. Now, look, I don't agree with, you know, his conclusions ultimately with everything, but I like that he has the balls to do it in a way that I just don't think filmmakers would do. They might stick to one thing, like, you know, I just watched The Nora and they're talking about sex work. And it's like, alright, I'm gonna talk about the nature of sex work. Um, and, you know, there's gonna be a little bit of class mixed in, but we're sticking to like what it's like to be a sex worker, which is like, you know, a pretty weighty kinda thing. This guy's like five, six different weighty topics that he's just taking his hand in and just being like,

• 1:41:23Speaker 04

  here, here's what I think, here's my take, here's my whatever. And I thought it was a pretty entertaining movie in the process.

• 1:41:29Bill Simmons?

  I got Demi Moore.

• 1:41:30Speaker 03

  I got Demi Moore, too.

• 1:41:31Speaker 04

  I respect it.

• 1:41:34Bill Simmons?

  The Nora was about a sex worker who got mixed up with Russian Borat.

• 1:41:39Bill Simmons?

  That's my blurb. That's my one blurb for Nora.

• 1:41:42Speaker 03

  I love that movie.

• 1:41:43Bill Simmons?

  It's, it's great. I like it too. Craig, now we're in a different studio. We have to stare at you through a blurry window. But you had never seen this movie. What was your take?

• 1:41:52Speaker 04

  Um, 10 out of 10.

• 1:41:53Speaker 03

  Love it.

• 1:41:54Speaker 04

  But you know how people say 10 out of 10, no notes. 10 out of 10, but a lot of notes, I would say. It's a 10 out of 10 on the entertainment scale, you know? This is a pro- this is like a they don't make them how they used to Hall of Fame.

• 1:42:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:05Speaker 04

  Really up there. Um, I just think these movies are becoming like cultural case studies. Like kids in school should be required, like if you're a sociology major, you should have to watch this movie just to see like what people were thinking and stuff in the 90s.

• 1:42:17Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:18Speaker 04

  Also, you guys didn't bring up, uh, so this movie came out in 94. Sam Levinson, born in 85. Sam Levinson, the creator of Euphoria, the son of Barry.

• 1:42:27Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:42:27Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:42:29Speaker 03

  Come on, Craig.

• 1:42:30Speaker 04

  Sam, that means-

• 1:42:30Bill Simmons?

  Great job, Craig.

• 1:42:31Speaker 04

  Sam probably saw like this movie 10 times when he was nine years old.

• 1:42:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:35Speaker 04

  You know, probably was pretty formative. Yeah.

• 1:42:37Bill Simmons?

  Explains a lot.

• 1:42:39Speaker 04

  For old Sam.

• 1:42:41Bill Simmons?

  Great play, Craig. Great.

• 1:42:42Speaker 03

  That's a fantastic point.

• 1:42:44Speaker 04

  Um, yeah.

• 1:42:46Bill Simmons?

  I like your, I like your cultural artifact.

• 1:42:48Speaker 03

  So true.

• 1:42:49Bill Simmons?

  This is the thing I, with these movies, that I think, we try to make this point over and over again. This is just what people thought and acted and thought was a good idea in 1994. And it's really interesting to watch it in that context. The same thing for Philadelphia, the way they talk about homosexuality needs in the movie. It's pretty accurate. It seems crazy now, but that was what 1993 was like.

• 1:43:11Speaker 03

  If, if Philadelphia came out now, I think it would be criticized for not being sensitive enough when the entire point of the movie-

• 1:43:22Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:23Speaker 03

  Was to have a conversation about sensitivity and compassion. And you can only do that with the truth of the drama that was in the movie.

• 1:43:30Bill Simmons?

  And Denzel would make them change the character a little bit.

• 1:43:33Speaker 03

  I don't think he would. I don't think he would. See, I think-

• 1:43:36Bill Simmons?

  Or the filmmaker would. Somebody would.

• 1:43:37Speaker 03

  The filmmaker would.

• 1:43:38Bill Simmons?

  They'd be like, we can't have me this homophobic.

• 1:43:40Speaker 03

  A different actor might.

• 1:43:41Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:41Speaker 03

  But the, the conflict that's in Denzel in that movie, especially in that one scene, that's the point of the movie.

• 1:43:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:49Bill Simmons?

  Anything else, Craig?

• 1:43:51Speaker 04

  Um.

• 1:43:52Bill Simmons?

  What did Liz think?

• 1:43:54Speaker 04

  We had to go, it was a blast. We like stopped at like four different times to figure out if the plot made any sense.

• 1:44:01Bill Simmons?

  The answer's no.

• 1:44:02Speaker 04

  And how it would end. It's just, you know what the problem, like the movie's really fun and everything, but there's a couple of plot things that are just so stupid. Like they build up certain things and then there's no payoff. Like, the voicemail was like this big thing. Like Liz clocked in the beginning, she's like, he didn't turn the phone off, the voicemail's gonna be a thing. And then it's like building up and building up and then Michael Douglas just like calls his friend, he's like, "Oh yeah, I just typed in the wrong number. Do you have the voicemail?" And he's like, "Yep." And then there was another one where it's like, "Oh, how are they gonna take down Demi Moore? How are they gonna take down Meredith?" Like, and then he just calls his buddy in some other city and he's like, "Hey, you got the files of that shows Meredith doesn't know what she's doing?" And he's like, "Yep."

• 1:44:40Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, right here. Hold on.

• 1:44:42Speaker 04

  It's like, I don't know.

• 1:44:43Bill Simmons?

  I'll fax them to you right now.

• 1:44:44Speaker 04

  With no drop off, yeah. I also want to say that these are the coolest offices I've ever seen in a movie by far. Yeah, for sure. The aesthetic in this movie is especially now where everyone's in like 90's nostalgia mode. Like the big clunky cluttered office, like the big physical computers. It's like, perfect.

• 1:45:01Bill Simmons?

  Sounds like Disclosure was a big hit at the Craig house.

• 1:45:04Speaker 04

  Love it.

• 1:45:04Speaker 03

  They stopped it four or five times as Craig was watching.

• 1:45:07Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I didn't want to.

• 1:45:15Bill Simmons?

  Alright, that's it for Disclosure. I think we made it.

• 1:45:17Speaker 03

  So much fun.

• 1:45:18Bill Simmons?

  Don't forget, for the people listening, you can go to the Den of Thieves. The Reden of Thieves taping on December 16th. Thanks to Craig Horlbeck for producing. Thanks to Jack Sanders as well. And, uh, thank you, fellas. This was a pleasure.

• 1:45:32Speaker 04

  Excellent.