M3GAN 2.0

The horror comedy M3GAN spawned memes, made a fortune, and even taught us a lesson about the dangers of outsourcing our humanity to AI. The sequel, M3GAN 2.0, pans out to tell a bigger story about an even deadlier AI killing machine — and brings back the original M3GAN for some hi-tech robot-on-robot violence. Though M3GAN was defeated at the end of the original film, her tech remains — and it's found its way into a rogue AI assassin named Amelia. Follow Pop Culture Happy Hour on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/nprpopculture https://letterboxd.com/nprpopculture/ To access bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening for Pop Culture Happy Hour, subscribe to Pop Culture Happy Hour+ at plus.npr.org/happy. https://plus.npr.org/happy See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This message comes from Capella University. That spark you feel, that's your drive for more. Capella University's FlexPath learning format lets you earn your degree at your pace without putting life on pause. Learn more at capella.edu.

• 0:19Stephen Thompson?

  The horror comedy Megan spawned memes, made a fortune, and even taught us a lesson about the dangers of outsourcing our humanity to AI.

• 0:27Speaker 02

  The sequel pans out to tell a bigger story about an even deadlier AI-killing machine and brings back the original Megan for some high-tech robot-on-robot violence. I'm Glen Weldon.

• 0:38Stephen Thompson?

  And I'm Stephen Thompson. Today, we are talking about Megan 2.0 on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.

• 0:49Speaker 00

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• 2:14Stephen Thompson?

  Joining us today is NPR producer J.C. Howard. Hey, J.C. Hello. Hello. Also with us is co-host of Slate's I C Y M I podcast and former P C H H producer Candace Lim. Hey Candace.

• 2:25Speaker 04

  Hello.

• 2:26Stephen Thompson?

  It is a pleasure to have you both here. So the concept of the original Megan was simple. A young girl named Katie, played by Violet McGraw, loses her parents in a car accident and has to go live with her Aunt Gemma. She's a career-focused roboticist, played by Alison Williams. Gemma is extremely busy building an interactive robot named Megan. She brings it home to help with parenting duties and keep Katie company. But Megan, having been programmed to protect Katie, soon develops a mind of her own and sets out to eliminate threats. That plot gets more ambitious in Megan 2.0. Though Megan was defeated at the end of the original film, her tech remains, and it's found its way into a rogue A I assassin named Amelia, played by Ivana Sachno.

• 3:09Speaker 05

  I want to be with my own kind, don't you?

• 3:13Speaker 06

  That thing isn't like us. It's something even we can't understand.

• 3:18Speaker 05

  Maybe you're the thing that's not like us. Maybe your allegiance to them has made you weak.

• 3:25Stephen Thompson?

  Amelia is a pure killing machine with no interest in protecting anyone, which makes her both wildly dangerous and of great interest to the U S government. Soon enough, we've got a plot messy enough to contain government agents, billionaire tech bros, a reconstituted Megan, Gemma's bumbling but mighty staff, the literal fate of the world, and loads of gleaming tech, as well as all the violence a ludicrous P G 13 rating will allow. The film is in theaters now. Glen Weldon, I'm going to start with you. What did you think of Megan 2.0?

• 3:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think this delivers on the premise and the premise of the first film. As you mentioned, this thing comes to us loaded down with memes. So what does it do? It winks at those memes. We get a winking reference to that dance sequence. We get a winking reference to the idea of Megan singing a ballad. In this case, the choice of ballad is superior to the first film, and it's the funniest part of the movie.

• 4:15Stephen Thompson?

  Yeah.

• 4:16Speaker 02

  Look, there is a very simple formula to this film. Megan on screen. Movie fun. Megan, off-screen movie, less so. So many plot threads, as you mentioned, involving the FBI and Jermaine Clement's tech bro and the Katie Gemma relationship and this big MacGuffin they're looking for. All those threads mean a smaller percentage of screen time for Megan, even though it's slightly longer film, I think she's on screen less. This movie's called Megan 2.0. We in the audience know they're gonna rebuild Megan. The film's characters think rebuilding Megan, very bad idea. So the filmmakers, for reasons I guess you can explain, have decided to side with, not with the audience, but with the film's characters. Which means that Gemma spends, what is it, 20, 25 minutes?

• 5:01Speaker 02

  Saying variations of, what are you crazy? It's a terrible idea. It's too risky. We can't rebuild Megan. So the plot does a lot of sweaty work in that time to attempt to justify rebuilding Megan. And again, not justifying it for us, we're on board, but for the characters. Right. What would have been lost in this movie if the first time anybody mentions rebuilding Megan, Gemma was like, yep, let's do it. Right. Nothing. Yeah. Nothing would have been lost? Yeah. Some Twitter bros would complain about like plot holes, but people who complain about plot holes don't matter. You can always ignore them.

• 5:31Stephen Thompson?

  There are also plenty of actual plot holes in this film.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Yes, absolutely.

• 5:34Stephen Thompson?

  Such as when they rebuild a, like, they basically like are in an underground bunker and undergo a five-year robot building process in what appears to be about 12 hours.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  Again, but like, I think eventually, delivers what it needed to for me.

• 5:49Stephen Thompson?

  All right. How about you, Candace?

• 5:50Speaker 04

  So I think what's really interesting to me is that the hype around Megan, the first movie, I actually compared a lot to the show The Bear and how

• 5:59Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 6:00Speaker 04

  it felt like the show that was fresh. The movie, Megan, felt fresh. It came out of nowhere. We've never seen something like it. And I think that newness really, really catapulted it to this like internet culture hierarchy of like tier A memes. Everyone loves it. And I think there was a hunger for a sequel, but maybe they waited too long because now we're talking about Megan 2.0 coming out the same weekend as F1, right after 28 years later. There are just so many other things. Things that like, I think people have been waiting for at the theaters. I don't know if Megan 2.0 is even cracking the top two of that list.

• 6:38Speaker 04

  But for me, it was. And so, walking in, I think you're right, Glenn. Not enough Megan, actually. Not enough Megan. And it's funny because every single poster, every single trailer you see for this movie, it really implies a lot of Megan. They keep saying the B is back. And the B is kind of back. She's kind of back, but she has a bigger B, and the B is Amelia. Who, all I'll say about her is like, does she not look like Elizabeth Olsen?

• 7:05Speaker 07

  Yes, sure.

• 7:05Stephen Thompson?

  Oh my gosh, I was very distracted by that.

• 7:08Speaker 07

  Hundred percent.

• 7:09Speaker 04

  But that is like a conversation that maybe you want to walk out with because it's kind of like a Black Mirror episode of like, well, this entire movie is about AI. It's about a very specific spectrum of AI supporters, but regulators, which I did find interesting, but I actually was a little disappointed about how like waffly they were. And I think that's about the fact that this is a sequel that doesn't want to detract Megan truthers, Megan one truthers. But if you're not jumping on the train now, I think you're anti-Megan.

• 7:37Stephen Thompson?

  Okay. How about you, Jesse?

• 7:39Speaker 07

  One of the notes that I wrote down while I was watching this movie is, what if Chucky was Tom Cruise?

• 7:45Stephen Thompson?

  Oh, God.

• 7:46Speaker 07

  And I, I think that that is an interesting kind of central question. And I think if the movie stuck to that question, it could have been a lot better. But instead, I came out struggling to figure out what I just watched. Like, it was funny, but it was also serious. And it was cheeky, but it was also earnest. It was tender, but also action-packed. It was inconsequential, but it also had a message. So it was kind of like all over the place. And this is, mind you, coming from a big fan of the first Megan movie. Like, that one was weird and tongue-in-cheek, but it had a certain charm, you know? So I went in expecting Megan 2.0 to be just as charming, just as self-aware, but with the camp turned up to 11.

• 8:30Speaker 07

  Because that was one of the things that really pulled me in about the first one, is it wasn't exactly a horror. It was like a campy horror. But I think instead of self-aware, I think as Glenn kind of I've mentioned, they settled for self-reference. Like, you know, remember this kind of great moment from the first one? What if we did something like that again? The pitch for this movie seemed to be, you've seen Terminator, right? Well, what if Terminator, but Megan? And it had a chance to be a campy adventure, but it oscillates between that and AI and social commentary. So I'm just kind of left with a lot of really good jokes and solid what-ifs in search of a unifying thread. This movie, it's billed as a sci-fi horror movie.

• 9:15Speaker 07

  And I think this movie is quote unquote horror in the same way that La Croix is quote unquote flavored. It's a solid premise, but a kind of a shaky execution for me.

• 9:27Stephen Thompson?

  Okay. You know, I think I came down, you know, somewhere in the neighborhood of where y'all came down. I loved the first Megan. Megan for me was like one of those perfect, like early January, seeming like it's getting dumped in the release graveyard, surprises that I found really witty and funny. Like I went in expecting like kind of a low-rent Chucky Redux. And instead I got a movie that had actually thought about its own premise. And really kind of engaged with the idea of how technology is kind of, as I said in the intro, it's outsourcing our humanity. And what I was worried about going into this film was that they were going to kind of lean a little bit too much

• 10:12Stephen Thompson?

  into the like robot on robot banter stuff. And it didn't have as much of that as the trailers kind of led me to believe. It doesn't abandon the wrestling that the first film does with AI. This film wrestles a lot with AI and I really did appreciate that. It's not just like huffing its own farts from the first movie. It's not just restating the first film. It absolutely makes this jump from January fun to summer blockbuster fun. And with all of the bloat and the flaws that that ends up.

• 10:51Stephen Thompson?

  Producing. And so for me, I came out satisfied, but didn't love it the way that I loved the first one.

• 10:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, OK, so you you mentioned this goes from January to summer. I wouldn't pursue that too hard because I think the thing I respect about this is that this is still a B movie. There's something kind of lo fi and practical effects and B minus fight choreography. It stays in its lane, so it doesn't get the Alien to Aliens upgrade. It doesn't get the Terminator to T two upgrade. It's more modest than that. It's schlockier than that. This is kind of Weekend at Bernie's to Weekend at Bernie's two. That's what kind of happens here. It's a lateral move and I kind of I respected that.

• 11:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:30Stephen Thompson?

  Yeah. Part of that fight choreography, though, is coming from the fact that because it's PG thirteen.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the other thing.

• 11:36Stephen Thompson?

  They're constantly panning away from the slaughter.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:40Stephen Thompson?

  Which for me, to me, is fine.

• 11:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:42Stephen Thompson?

  But it is also a very violent movie to get a PG thirteen rating. And I didn't even realize it was PG thirteen until I realized that you could run a perfectly precise swear count.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:55Stephen Thompson?

  And that's how you realize like, oh, this is PG thirteen.

• 11:58Speaker 04

  I think for me, I have to say, though, I actually think I am disappointed by this movie. Because one thing is that the first Megan did a really good job of focusing the story on this emotional adoption story. It was about Alison Williams, like truly struggling to have like this surrogate child that had gone through a trauma. And then Megan gets introduced almost as like a distraction coping mechanism and that kind of takes over. But I think this movie is so much about the Megan of it all, and it should be. That's what the marketing is. And I think because of that, it really loses a lot of that emotional integrity that I loved. I mean, there is like, obviously, an iconic Megan singing a ballad.

• 12:39Speaker 04

  But right before that, what leads up to that is she's like teaching Alison Williams about the meaning of motherhood. And I kid you not, my friend cried. My friend was crying and then laughing. But I was like, that's like, that's funny. Like, that's the stuff I miss and I love. But at the same time, I was thinking about like who they use to kind of fill up the emotional void in this movie. So that's like Jermaine Clement, who plays like, look, he's like Elon Musk-ish, right? He's kind of this like weird tech billionaire.

• 13:08Speaker 07

  Billionaire, yeah.

• 13:08Stephen Thompson?

  He's our latest Elon Musk surrogate.

• 13:10Speaker 04

  There you go. And then we have like Aristotle Atari, who I love. He was on SNL. He played Angelo. That was a great sketch he did there. But in this movie, he's so dead behind the eyes, so deadpan. I think that's the point, though, because like I feel like when you have two robots who I would say they are strong females, Amelia and Megan, when you have them and you're trying to like pit them in a very Godzilla versus Kong way, I think the characters, the human characters around you have to kind of dampen a little bit to kind of show that like these robots, they have human elements and they are taking away from the other human and their elements.

• 13:45Speaker 07

  Yeah, you know, I think Candace, you're touching on something that like I felt deeply as I watched and walked away from this movie, which is I think that the defining feature of Megan 2.0 is missed opportunity.

• 13:57Speaker 04

  I agree.

• 13:58Speaker 07

  I think especially with Katie.

• 14:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 14:00Speaker 07

  Her character was really compelling in the first one. I mean, the relationship between she and Gemma was the core of the premise of the movie at one point. And in this one, she had the opportunity. She was prime for being kind of the moral backbone. The movie sets her up as computer coding. She's like, you know, thinking about and struggling with morality. She's like really thinking about how you can integrate morality into code and into into AI. But ultimately, her character, so her character was dampened in exactly the way that you're talking about, in a way where she could have actually made strides toward self-betterment and self-actualization, but instead she kind of regressed.

• 14:41Speaker 07

  I feel like the movie flirts with camp, but there's like an adult looking over its shoulder, saying like, okay, keep on task. And I think this is most evident in this kind of ballad scene that we all keep kind of talking about. The sequence was so good and so self-aware. It was a great back and forth. But then at the end of the scene, Gemma's character is like, okay, let's get back to business here.

• 15:08Stephen Thompson?

  I think the issue is that the stakes are too high. Suddenly, the stakes are not just like, how do we subdue this robot that has, you know, kind of gone off script and become, you know, kind of what happens if this evil robot achieves the singularity and then all of society collapses, then all of a sudden you are constantly having to expend more and more energy trying to resolve the fate of the world. And that is smothering out some of these character beats that are the best things about the film.

• 15:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think that's true.

• 15:44Speaker 07

  To that effect, Stephen, you mentioned the AI commentary, which I also appreciated, right? Like, I really liked the commentary that it provided. It seems like the point is, hey, look, AI is coming, and we've got to figure out how to coexist with it, which is interesting, right? Like, as people who work in the realm of content creation, like, I think all the time about how AI could fundamentally change how we do what we do. So I think the idea of learning to use AI as a tool instead of fearing it is fascinating. However, the movie just spent two hours telling me that robots have no interest in coexistence. They

• 16:27Speaker 07

  want to destroy humanity and rule over the ashes. So like, I'm kind of left with this good point, like, oh, wow, you know, we've got to coexist. But then you've just taught me all the reasons why we probably shouldn't just like, want to coexist. So like, again, great point, not the arguments that you wanted to actually support that point.

• 16:45Stephen Thompson?

  I did feel like my big takeaway on this film is like, should we coexist with AI? The answer? Nah.

• 16:51Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 16:53Speaker 04

  We basically pick up with Gemma becoming like a government regulation AI mommy activist. Her whole thing is like, get those kids off those iPads. But she's clearly on this place of like, AI is something I have built, AI is something I'm OK with, but you need to regulate it. Fine. Her opposing force is someone who's actually kind of on that spectrum, but taking a very extremist stance. Maybe not extremist in the way you think, but I think the reason why I don't like where it landed is because the first movie was Not necessarily about technological morality, but like ethical morality, just like what is your role as like the parent of this kid and like introducing them to both friendship and technology at the same time.

• 17:33Speaker 04

  And clearly you see Violet McGraw as Katie, she's going to become the next Gemma. She is going to create Megan 16.0 as she should. And I think because of that, like this movie actually I don't think is horror. I actually think this is a spy thriller. That's the vibe I got. It's a spy thriller that uses action to kind of like show, not tell. And the reason why that bothered me is because I loved how funny the first movie was. I love the way that they talk to each other, which is that they didn't really talk to each other. They talked at each other. And that's kind of how I feel like AI in that conversation is now where it's like between the first movie and this. The biggest thing that's changed is our regulation and use of like chat GPT in our regular life.

• 18:15Speaker 04

  And I think a lot of people at first would have said like, I'm refusing chat GPT. And now they rely on it. And the question is like, okay, maybe AI is like the New York City of Sex and the City is the fifth character. And I don't like her. I don't like her.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  When the takeaway is hashtag not all AI, that is a wishy washy closing statement. I want to spend a little bit of time talking about the marketing of this movie. Again, the movie is in the market. I can't begrudge the marketing, but they are really pushing Megan as a queer icon in a way that they kind of did with the first one, but it felt organic with the first film because she was embraced by the community. Now it feels deliberate. Now it's a bit sweaty. I can kind of feel her crawling to the top of the pride float to to to stand up there. Will she show up as a guest judge on Drag Race All Stars? I wouldn't put it past her. There is something.

• 19:06Speaker 04

  Glenn, you know, I was gonna ask you about the lost culture recess ad when they talk to Megan.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  This is the thing. She's showing up on the queer podcasts and they're doing a bit. It's deliberate in a way that something was kind of discovered and found with the first film that feels very slick with the second one.

• 19:25Speaker 04

  I mean, you're right, because Stephen, as you're mentioning, the like January to June bump. They released this during Pride Month. That's not an accident. None of this is an accident, right? Yeah.

• 19:34Stephen Thompson?

  All right, well, we want to know what you think about Megan 2.0. Find us on Facebook at facebook.com/pchh and on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/nprpopculture. We'll have a link in our episode description. That brings us to the end of our show. Candace Lim, J.C. Howard, Glen Weldon, thanks so much for being here.

• 19:53Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 19:54Speaker 07

  Thanks for having me. Thank you.

• 19:56Stephen Thompson?

  And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus is a great way to support our show and public radio, and you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor-free. So please go find out more at plus.npr.org/happyhour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Hafsa Fathema and Mike Katsef and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next time.

• 20:31Speaker 03

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