Combating Depression Through Ultra-Endurance: Luke Tyburski’s Ultimate Triathlon

Aussie born, UK-dwelling adventure athlete Luke Tyburski isn’t superman. He’s not famous nor is he a world champion. And he’s the first to say he’s just not that talented. In most ways Luke is a normal bloke. An everyman who decided to face his debilitating battle with clinical depression through the lens of adventure and ultra-endurance sports. Soccer obsessed as a young boy, from the get go Luke realized he lacked the God-given athletic gifts enjoyed by his teammates. Nonetheless, perseverance prevailed and Luke achieved his life-long dream of traveling the world as a professional footballer. Unfortunately, that career was cut short by significant, chronic & persistent injuries. What followed was an unexpected yet quite severe bout with acute, clinical depression — a back hole of desperation that often left him bedridden and teetering on hopelessness. To escape this prison, Luke dug deep. Through sheer force of will matched with equal parts faith, he compelled his mutinying body, mind and spirit to simply get up, get outside and begin exploring again — one step at a time. Having never ran more than 10 kilometers at any one time, and with only six months to prepare, in 2012 Luke conquered the infamous Marathon des Sables, a 250 kilometer, six stage self-sufficient running race across the treacherous and unrelenting sand dunes of the Moroccan Sahara. Since then he has competed in a variety of adventure races, including the Mt. Everest Ultra Marathon. His first ever triathlon? The double ironman distance Double Brutal Extreme Triathlon. My kind of guy. Currently, Luke's sights are set on achieving the truly extraordinary — a self-styled 12-day, 2000 kilometer adventure he calls The Ultimate Triathlon that kicks off in Morocco with a swim across the Straight of Gibraltar before cycling and running the coastline all the way to Monaco. It’s easy to admire the feats of the truly touched. It’s inspirational. But I cherish sharing stories like Luke's because they are aspirational. And because relatable, everyman guys like Luke demonstrate that big dreams are possible and accessible for all. This is a conversation that explores: * what its like to be clinically depressed * preparing for The Ultimate Triathlon * developing confidence as an outmatched youth * how attention to nutrition changed his game * the importance of a holistic approach to well-being * endurance sports as escapism * the importance of adventurous life * how the compassion of strangers in Nepal changed his perspective * what keeps him motivated; and * how to bridge the gap between inspiration and action An adventurous life is a worth leading. Luke's life is well worth the examination. I sincerely hope you enjoy our discussion. How can you invite more adventure into your life? I'd love to hear about it in the comments section below. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:04Speaker 01

  That's what gets me through the dark days these times, knowing that I can make a difference in someone else's life if I apply myself to that.

• 1:13Rich Roll?

  That's adventure athlete Luke Tyberski this week on the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  The Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:32Rich Roll?

  Hey, everybody. How you doing? What's going on? What's the news? It's Rich here, Rich Roll, your host of the Rich Roll Podcast. Thanks for tuning into the show. We're back at it with a second episode of the week, keeping the streak alive. What do we do here? Well, each week, I sit down with some of the most compelling minds and personalities across all categories of positive culture change. We explore everything from health and wellness to fitness, professional sports, athletic performance, medicine, nutrition, the arts, spirituality, psychology, inspiration, and of course, excellence. And the purpose of these conversations is to leverage the insights provoked to simply help us live and be.

• 2:13Rich Roll?

  Better to help all of us unlock and unleash our collective best, most authentic selves. So, thank you for subscribing to the show on iTunes. Thank you for spreading the word on social media. Thank you for downloading our free mobile app. Hey, Android users, I hear you. I know there's a demand for an Android version of the app. I'm getting the emails, I'm well aware. We're looking into it, we're exploring it, so a little patience, please, and I'll be getting back to you with updates on that soon. Also, thank you for always clicking through the Amazon banner ad at RichRoll.com for all your Amazon purchases. It's a great free way to support the mission. Doesn't cost you a cent extra on your Amazon purchases, and you can make it easy by just bookmarking the link from the banner ad on my site to your browser. That way, it's right up there

• 2:58Rich Roll?

  at the top of your browser. You don't have to go to my site anymore. Makes it easy for all of us. Everybody wins. Thank you, guys.

• 3:13Rich Roll?

  Hey, did I mention I got Luke Tyburski on the show today? So, who is Luke? Well, Luke is an Aussie-born, UK-dwelling, ultra-endurance athlete, an adventure athlete, I think it's fair to say. And perhaps what's most interesting to me about Luke is that he's not a world champion, he's not a famous athlete. But nonetheless, he caught my interest because in many ways, he's just an incredibly normal guy, a guy who simply decided to challenge himself and his limits to do something extraordinary. In Luke's case, this began early. As a boy, as a young person, he realized very early on that he lacked the natural athletic talent of his peers. Yet nonetheless, he was able to find the wherewithal to achieve

• 3:54Rich Roll?

  his dream of traveling the world to play professional soccer. Unfortunately, that career was cut significantly short by chronic and persistent injuries, followed by severe bouts with depression, a black hole that left him bedridden, and at times verging on hopelessness. And so, to escape this prison, Luke was forced to find a new focus. He had to compel himself to get outside, to discover himself, and to begin exploring again. And despite the fact that he'd never run more than 10 kilometers at any one time in his entire life, and with only six months to prepare, in 2012, Luke decided to take

• 4:35Rich Roll?

  on the infamous Marathon de Sabe, a 250-kilometer, six-stage, self-sufficient running race across the Sahara Desert in Morocco. It's a totally epic race. If you're not familiar with it, Google it, it's insane. And despite injuries and many, many setbacks, he managed to finish, and this really lit an internal flame inside of him. And since then, he's competed in a variety of adventure races, including the Mount Everest Ultra Marathon. And what I love about this guy is that his first-ever triathlon was the double Ironman distance, double brutal, extreme triathlon, right? So this is my kind of guy. And now Luke has a set site on his own self-styled adventure. It's something that he calls "The Ultimate Triathlon."

• 5:20Rich Roll?

  It's a 2,000-kilometer swim-bike run, all the way from Morocco to Monaco, in just 12 days. So again, what I like about this guy is that he isn't Superman. In many ways, he is you. He is me. He is an everyman. He's a very relatable guy with a modest amount of God-given talents that overcame some pretty relatable obstacles to do some amazing things, and continues to dream of possibilities outside his comfort zone. So, it's easy to admire the feats of the truly touched. That's inspirational. But I really love sharing stories of people like this because they are aspirational. And there's a difference. There's a difference between inspirational and aspirational.

• 6:03Rich Roll?

  And guys like Luke help all of us see that big dreams are indeed accessible. So, this is a conversation that talks about dealing with depression. It's about a holistic approach to emotional, spiritual, and physical well-being. It's about how endurance sports can actually be used as escapism, as a way of escaping your life, or alternatively, as therapy. It's a conversation about how to wrap your body, mind, and spirit around a huge challenge. And it's a conversation about bridging that elusive gap between inspiration and action.

• 6:38Rich Roll?

  Okay, okay. Alright, so let's check this dude out.

• 6:47Rich Roll?

  How long are you in LA for?

• 6:49Speaker 01

  I leave on Wednesday, so I'm back about five days.

• 6:53Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, six days.

• 6:54Rich Roll?

  So you got in when?

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Friday night.

• 6:56Rich Roll?

  Friday night?

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:57Rich Roll?

  Um, cool, man. You getting some good training in?

• 7:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's been great. It's just been a bit different. The water in the ocean's still a bit cold. I jumped in there the other day in my little speedos, my little budgie smugglers, as we call them in Oz. But all the surfers give me some weird look, so.

• 7:14Rich Roll?

  Down in Manhattan Beach?

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't stay in there for too long.

• 7:17Rich Roll?

  Oh, it's normal to go in your speedo down there. But I mean, people think that Southern California, oh, the water's warm all the time and it's freaking cold.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:26Rich Roll?

  You know?

• 7:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it took me a while to warm up.

• 7:27Rich Roll?

  It's gotta be, it's probably like sixty-one Fahrenheit around now, something like that?

• 7:31Speaker 01

  I don't know, it was cold.

• 7:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Hey, slide the mic up a little bit closer to you. You gotta chew on it, it'll pull it closer to you. Um, cool. Um, and you went to Malibu Creek State Park for a run today?

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was awesome. That was really good. So I went out there and just basically jumped on the trailhead and got lost. Just kept running and got to the end of a few trails and turned around and ran back and.

• 7:52Rich Roll?

  Did you get the vert? Cause it starts going up.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, no.

• 7:55Rich Roll?

  When you go back, right?

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I hit that and I was like, I, whenever I run in the mountains, I always look where the trees are, the top of the trees. I'm like, yeah, I still got a long way to go. I know this trail's going up there and it was pretty cool. Cause it was just like nice little switchbacks.

• 8:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  On a smaller scale, it's like the Alps, something like that.

• 8:11Rich Roll?

  But it pitches pretty good once you get up there. I mean, I don't know exactly where, there's tons of trails back there, but.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, there's. Yeah, there was a couple that were pretty steep. I'm not gonna lie, I didn't run. I was walking, I was trekking.

• 8:21Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah. Did you pass through the, uh, the, uh, Mash site where they have the, oh, yeah, yeah. Where they, that's where they filmed Mash, that TV show.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, that was crazy. I'd come around the corner and then he's like, this, all this Mash stuff just sitting there in the middle of nowhere else.

• 8:35Rich Roll?

  Right, that's Hollywood, man.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  Oh, mate, living the dream here.

• 8:38Rich Roll?

  That's cool. So you have some friends here that you're hanging out with?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, just hanging out with some of the good friends. When I used to live in San Francisco, um, like six, eight years ago, eight years ago. Um, I met them up there and now they live down in the, in the South Bay, so.

• 8:51Rich Roll?

  So you've been down here before?

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've been down here before. Yeah, I used to play soccer up in, uh, in San Francisco, so we'd come down and play.

• 8:58Rich Roll?

  You've lived, uh, you've lived everywhere, man. You've bopped around quite a bit.

• 9:03Speaker 01

  I've, I've bounced around here and there. I've. Even though I've not lived in Australia for 11 years, I've still got the accent, as I've been told.

• 9:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you don't want to lose that.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 9:13Rich Roll?

  Hold on to that.

• 9:14Speaker 01

  That's part of me.

• 9:15Rich Roll?

  That bodes well for you wherever you go.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, especially in this country as well.

• 9:20Rich Roll?

  That's cool, man. So I want to get a grip on your story. Why don't we just introduce people to, you know, what you got on tap in October because it's pretty epic. This is what you're preparing for right now, the ultimate triathlon, this, this challenge that you've concocted in your head that you're going to be launching yourself into come fall. And it's quite, it's quite the extreme adventure, I would say. So break it down.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:52Rich Roll?

  Are you getting tired thinking about it? Come on, man. Where's that Aussie confidence?

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Oh, mate, it's, it's there. It's there. It's, my life is the ultimate triathlon right now. So I love it, you know, and it's been three years in the making. So it's, it's like my little baby, so to speak. But basically, it's 1300 miles in 12 days from Morocco to Monaco. So I swim the Gibraltar Strait between Morocco and Spain, which is about 12 miles.

• 10:20Rich Roll?

  Right, 20 kilometers.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:22Rich Roll?

  But the tricky thing there is the currents. I mean, that's a shipping lane. Like, that's, that's not like, you know, some kind of pick, pickersque, you know, picturesque, open water swim, you know, like, there's got to be laws about that. Are they cool? Are you doing that? Do you have permits and stuff you got to sort out?

• 10:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a company that does the crossings. So they do, they have the boats and stuff like that. So I'll sign up with them. In normal Luke style, as I've been told, I'm doing it the most difficult way because normally what they do is they swim from Spain to Morocco. And then that's, that's the crossing.

• 10:59Rich Roll?

  Currents are more favorable.

• 11:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. But I said, I don't want to do that because it's not, it's not going to help me. You know, I need to go up to Monaco. So at the end of the, then the challenge. So I said, I want to go the other way. And they balked at it for a little bit, but I told them what I'm doing and helped them out with a bit of exposure and stuff like that. So they said, yeah, you can do it, but it's going to be a lot more difficult. So.

• 11:19Rich Roll?

  So why is that? Is, is the current going out towards the Atlantic? Like, how does it work? Why would it matter if it's going? If it's going west to east.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Because apparently later in the, in the day, it sort of spins out. So people do two ways.

• 11:36Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  But the only way they can go back is if they get down quick enough, cause later in the day, if the currents will take them out.

• 11:41Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Um, so yeah, and just the way the water works through there, it's a lot more difficult. And then, as you said, you got the, the shipping containers, you know, it's the mouth to the Mediterranean and the amount of shipping tanks that's coming there is like hundreds every day.

• 11:55Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Plus the marine life, you know?

• 11:58Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  My mom says I'm not allowed to say that.

• 12:00Rich Roll?

  The marine life.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not allowed to talk about sharks and stuff.

• 12:04Rich Roll?

  That's one nice way of putting it.

• 12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, she.

• 12:07Rich Roll?

  Is that really a big problem there?

• 12:08Speaker 01

  No, no, no, but you're in the ocean, you know, like.

• 12:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  But my mom up till, like, she knew about three years ago, I'd told my family that this is what I'm thinking of doing. And up until like six months ago, she said to me, oh, so have you got the cage organized? I'm like, cage? What for? I'm like, what, what am I doing? And she's like, oh, for the swim, you're swimming in a cage, aren't you? I'm like, no, I'm swimming next to a boat.

• 12:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, no cage there. It's not like you're swimming around, you know, South Africa or something.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  No, no, no, it's like, it's a bit of a joke, but.

• 12:37Rich Roll?

  And what's the temp?

• 12:39Speaker 01

  Uh, no, it'll be fine. Down in Morocco, be like, well, fifteen Celsius. Not sure what that is in Fahrenheit.

• 12:45Rich Roll?

  Fahrenheit, I don't know, but not bad.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  Maybe like, uh, fif- fifty-five, sixty?

• 12:52Rich Roll?

  Uh, it's still pretty chilly, so that's a wet suit. You're wearing a wet suit.

• 12:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have a wet suit on and then it gets warmer as you get up to, there's a few, there'll be a few cold parts throughout, but it gets warmer as you get up to Spain, so.

• 13:03Rich Roll?

  So Africa to Europe in one swim.

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I get there.

• 13:07Rich Roll?

  Epic in its own, right?

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a massive challenge anyway, cause I've met, talked to a few people that have done it and, yeah, it sounds like it's gonna be pretty epic. But then the same day, I get rid of this wet suit, I get on the bike and I've got like seventy miles to ride that same day. So one of the biggest challenges for me is getting a good tide and at a good time because I don't want to leave too late on the first day because then I still got seventy miles to cycle. And that could eat into my sleep, my recovery time later that day.

• 13:39Rich Roll?

  But there's probably a specific period of time in the day when there's like a slack time, like when it's in between going in and out, right, where it's ideal for crossing, but maybe that's not ideal for finishing your your bike leg.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  No, no, no.

• 13:51Rich Roll?

  Before dark, right?

• 13:52Speaker 01

  No, exactly. So we've got to have fingers crossed that it works in our favor. But that's day one.

• 13:56Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  And then we'll stay, every day we'll stay at a designated stop. So then day one's finished and then the next four days I cycle the southeast coast of Spain to the Spanish French border. And that's in between a hundred and ninety and two hundred miles a day.

• 14:13Rich Roll?

  Right. So day two, days two through three, you're going about six hundred and ninety kilometers on the bike.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:20Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Sounds fun, doesn't it?

• 14:21Rich Roll?

  It does, actually.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  I'm talking to the right guy.

• 14:23Rich Roll?

  You're talking to the right guy, you know what I mean? Like, it doesn't sound crazy to me. I'm like, all right, twenty K, that's an epic swim. You can get up for that. Seventy miles on the bike. You know, day one of Ultraman, it's ninety after a ten K swim, so half the swim distance. So you're going to be swimming. I mean, that's going to take you like six hours at least.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  I'll tell you what, if it takes me six hours, I'll be ecstatic. I'm ecstatic. So I'm not a swimmer like you.

• 14:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, it's going to depend on the currents big time and the chop.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:50Rich Roll?

  Uh, all right. So then you you get through the third day and you put the bike behind you. And then basically you're running from day five through eleven, you're running a double marathon every day.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Uh.

• 15:03Rich Roll?

  Basically.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So it's like fifty miles every day for seven days, nonstop.

• 15:08Rich Roll?

  Going along, you're kind of hugging the coast until you arrive in Monaco.

• 15:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I thought, why not? Just stick to the coastal roads as much as possible, some awesome scenery, but hopefully it'll get me through a few dark times and it should be good.

• 15:22Rich Roll?

  I think it's going to be good, man.

• 15:23Speaker 01

  I'm excited. I said to my friend a couple of years ago, he's a an Ironman athlete and he he's been to Europe a few times, back in Oz he lives. And he's like, that's a great way to see that part of the world.

• 15:33Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  He said, just don't fall off your bike.

• 15:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think, yeah, rubber side down, right? I mean, I think that I'm more and more interested in like these self-styled adventures, you know, where it's not, it's not so much about racing. It doesn't matter, you know, you got to finish in a reasonable amount of time so that you're getting enough sleep. That becomes the big problem and making sure that your crew is locked in and dialed so that, you know, you don't lose time due to, you know, stupid stuff. Because stuff will happen, you know, trust me. 11 days, you know, it's not going to go according to plan. And it's like, how, how do you react in those situations to expeditiously, you know, get you back going where you need to be? But it's cool, you know? So there's, there's the daunting aspect of completing it, but you don't have that

• 16:18Rich Roll?

  pressure of like, you know, you're watching the clock for, you know, what your splits are, what your, your watts are on the bike and stuff like that, right? So you can enjoy it, I guess, on some level, a little bit more than, than is possible when you're in a race context.

• 16:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that's exactly right. The only thing, as you said, is the rest. Like, it's not just like I'm going to go for a little pedal and just a little spin. I do have to work because I need to finish in a reasonable amount of time so I can get the rest and then get up the next day and do it all over again. Because after day one, so day two to day 12, is I'm going to start at 6:30 in the morning every day. So then hopefully in 2017, I can offer the ultimate triathlon experience to other people and they can do it. If they want to beat my time, whatever it is, or if they want to set a fast time, I want to try and replicate, make it replicable, replicable, so other people can do it as well. So I'll be starting at 6:30. So if I'm just having a little jolly up laugh and I finish at 2:00 in the morning, I got to get up and go again in four hours, it's not going to work.

• 17:17Rich Roll?

  How is, how is your crew looking? Do you have that locked in?

• 17:21Speaker 01

  Motley Crue.

• 17:24Rich Roll?

  Because that's, that's the key, you know?

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is.

• 17:27Rich Roll?

  It's a team, it's a team sport. It's a team effort. Like, if you can get it to the point where all you have to worry about is getting those miles done and they take care of everything, then you're in good shape. But, you know, when you have to sort of deal with stuff outside of... Swimming, cycling and running, then it starts to get tricky.

• 17:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, I've got plenty of friends and family who have all put their hands up and want to go on the, on the bandwagon.

• 17:50Rich Roll?

  They don't know what they're getting into though.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  There's a, there's a couple, I've, I've got a couple of good friends who have crewed for me before and I know who are good and who are, yeah, next time, next time.

• 18:01Rich Roll?

  It sounds good, like a nice drive down the, you know, the coast and all that kind of stuff. I, I think most people underestimate that they're, they have to be on point, like the whole time and it's a huge job.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, crewing's, crewing's just as hard as actually doing any event. Like you've crewed for Bad Ward and a few other things as well and I've, and I've crewed for different races, for different friends and it's hard because you've got to be on the ball the whole time and people come in, they're in and out within a few minutes and then they're off again and you've got to reset and you've got to stay on point. So yeah, I've got, I've got quite a few friends who I know and they know that they're going to come along and they've crewed for me for my first ever triathlon, which is a double ironman in, in North Wales and the crew up there that I had were, were awesome. You know, get me in and out. Do you need anything? No. Okay. Get out of here. Um, so, and I've got a few other friends. I've got a running group on every Sunday called PRC.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  We go running, uh, yeah, in between 20 and 30 miles and a couple of those guys who I know.

• 18:56Rich Roll?

  In London?

• 18:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, in London. Yeah. So anyone in London wants to join PRC, give me a shout and.

• 19:02Rich Roll?

  You should, uh, do you know, um, Timothy Sheaf?

• 19:06Speaker 01

  I listened.

• 19:06Rich Roll?

  On the podcast?

• 19:07Speaker 01

  I listened to it on the, on the flight coming over here.

• 19:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you got to connect with that guy because he's getting super into ultra running.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  Sounds like it on the, on the podcast.

• 19:14Rich Roll?

  I think he's got a few mates in London that he, that he does it with, but I'm sure he, you know, he'd like to tap into it.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, PRC is all about go and run, come home to our place and we cook up a bit of feed and that's it.

• 19:25Rich Roll?

  Nice, man.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:26Rich Roll?

  I like it. So how are you feeling?

• 19:28Speaker 01

  I'm good. I'm, I'm excited about it all. It's just, as you know, the training and the actual event is the fun part. It's all the other stuff like the promotion and the logistics and stuff, which is a bit, bit boring, but you've got, you've got to do it.

• 19:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, that's what you're doing here, right?

• 19:43Speaker 01

  Exactly. That's why I'm here with you, Rich.

• 19:45Rich Roll?

  I hope it's not too boring for you.

• 19:46Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no. Telling everyone about what's happening and, and going from there.

• 19:50Rich Roll?

  Well, I want to get into the training and the nutrition and all of that, but I'm really interested in. Kind of your story, because you you have a really kind of unique, you know, past that's brought you into this world in a kind of a turbocharged way like, you know, I love the fact that like me, you're you're pretty much an all or nothing guy and you know, you came from this soccer background, which I want to get into and just kind of, you know, through some some kind of, you know, tribulations in your career as a soccer player, launched yourself into endurance sports without any background and just went straight for ultras, you know, with barely any prep or knowledge about what you were doing and your first triathlon was a double Ironman, right? Like, I love that.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's um, so basically, I, three years ago now, three and a half years ago, I I just retired from football, from soccer. I just battle of injuries for the previous three years. I had a space of like 12 months where I had three surgeries, major back injuries with injections and things like this with radioactive dye and all this other crazy stuff. And I was a pincushion for, yeah, I know, all different types of steroids and stuff and whatever to try and heal my body. And and it got to a point where I just decided I had enough, like I tore my calf and it was like a light switch and

• 21:15Speaker 01

  I just went, no, I'm done. I can't do this anymore. And I was 28 and I had my whole basically life in front of me. And I was went home and I was icing my calf and I'm thinking, what do I do now? You know, like, I was doing some personal training in London, training some clients and stuff. And that was fine. It's a really cool clients that I trained and good connection with and getting great results. But, you know, I was myself, I was a soccer player.

• 21:39Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  And they knew that. And then, for some stupid reason, I remember a conversation I had with a friend in Australia, he's telling me about this, this race, the world's toughest, you know, foot race. And it popped into my head as I'm icing my calf and playing on my laptop, trying to, you know, get away from the decision making that I needed to do is what's next. And it was the Marathon de Sables, which is six marathons in seven days, self-supported through the Sahara Desert. You need to carry everything on your back, except for a tent, and you get rationed water every day.

• 22:10Rich Roll?

  Right, one of the most epic ultra marathons around, running on, literally running on on sand dunes, pretty much the whole time.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I saw it, and it was in six months' time. And I went, yeah, all right, did a bit more research for about two minutes, and then called him up and went, yeah, have you got any places left? Like, I know nothing about ultras or endurance sports. I'd never ran more than like six miles in one go. It was a soccer player, out and out. And I had a few friends who were triathletes and whatever, but I was just really cared about soccer and short, sharp sprints, and that was it. And so I called this this lady up, and she's like, well, we've got a waiting list, but the waiting list has just sort of overflowed. But if you pay your deposit now, you can get a spot. And I'm like, okay, sure, no worries. And so I paid my deposit, and that was it. And hung the phone up and went, holy crap, what am I doing in six months?

• 23:01Rich Roll?

  Well, I like the fact that you're kind of depressed on the couch and nursing this calf injury, and your instinct was to, you know, sign up for something that's just so outside of the ballpark of anything you'd ever experienced.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:15Rich Roll?

  I mean, that was your cure, you know, like your your way of kind of mentally clawing your way out of, you know, a situation that probably, you know, I mean, look, I want to get into all the injuries and all that kind of stuff that you were struggling with, but at the kind of tail end of your soccer career, you know, you weren't such a happy guy.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  No, not at all. I I was battled with depression for probably badly for about two years. And it was just because I was getting injured, and then I'd get fit again, and then I'd break down, and I couldn't do this sport that I loved to do. And it got to a point where I was injured, so I couldn't train, had to rest, and. You know, unless I had face to face clients, I would just stay at home. I had some housemates and stuff and, you know, it it makes me laugh. Well, yeah, it makes me laugh now, but I'd pretend to go out. So they think I'd go out to work and close the front door and go back into my room and just stay in bed all day. And they'd be like, oh, how's how's your day? Yeah, good busy. I left early this morning. You might have heard me and stuff and.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  Um, and I kept it really in house. No one knew about it. Uh, so, which in hindsight was, you know, it was pretty crazy and it was pretty something big to deal with that back then, but. I didn't know what to do. I had no idea. I'd never suffered anything like this before and. My life, I just felt like my my professional career, I should say, not my life, was just going south fast, so. Um, yeah, this these injuries just kept coming back and kept coming back.

• 24:46Rich Roll?

  Do you think that the the depression was driven by the injuries and your sort of. You know, career trajectory as a soccer player, or do you think it's deeper than that? Like, do you still deal with it or did it dissipate when you kind of found this new passion?

• 25:04Speaker 01

  It dissipated for us for a second because I was so busy and I had so much stuff going on like, you know, it's like training for. Uh, an ultra, especially your first one. I I tested everything. I I researched so much. So it was like I didn't have a chance to be flat or low. But no, it's still with me today, you know, I I still have low points. I'm a lot more open with it now. I've got a really good core friends unit around me in London, around the world that I can talk to and. And then that know the ins and outs of it all, and I don't mind calling them up and say, hey, I'm having a really bad day, having a flat day and. And just chat even about anything, but, um, but yes, I'm a lot more open with it now and it is.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  You know, one of those things where, I don't know if it ever goes away, I'm not sure, but I think you just sort of learn to deal with it. And when you have those low days like I like I have now occasionally, they're fuel and fire between. I will like literally do the bare minimum because if I do that, I've found they go quicker. So rather than like back when I was playing football, it was felt like a week or two weeks where I couldn't even drag myself out of bed and I didn't wanna eat or anything. But now I may have a one or two day or even half a day where I'm just sort of like, you know what, I'm just gonna chill, I'm just gonna relax. I'm not gonna try and push myself, I'm not gonna open the laptop, I'm just gonna let it let it pass by and I feel I find that that makes it a lot easier and I can get through it.

• 26:32Rich Roll?

  But you haven't gone the therapy route or the pharmaceutical route?

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Definitely not pharmaceutical, no, like I'm real food.

• 26:39Rich Roll?

  That's anti-American.

• 26:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, I know, we'll get, I'm sure we'll get into my my nutrition later with all the real food, but no, definitely not that. Uh, therapy, yeah, I've I've done done some therapy and it's been helpful, uh, which is, uh, which has been good to sort of talk to other people. And it's it's it's crazy because as I've sort of become more open with it and speaking with some some of my closer friends. Couple of them have have have suffered with a few other mental health issues as well. So we sort of formed this this sort of little group that we have and you know, we talk individually to each other and having a bad day and whatever. So we sort of bounce around with that now, but for me, yeah, I I I did therapy for a little while and it definitely did help, but I I found it was

• 27:24Speaker 01

  it served this purpose and it was time to move on because I just sort of felt like I was going around in circles and once I did that full circles, like, okay, I I need to get off, I need to work on myself and find how I'm gonna move forward as as Luke.

• 27:36Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And it seems like you have this kind of uh, hyper ability to focus and go deep on something, almost to the point of of OCD, whether it's through, you know, researching nutrition or or depression or. You know, ultra endurance or what have you. I mean, I think that that probably serves you well in in ultra endurance, you know, kind of having that mentality about your training and all of that. But, you know, let's take it back to when, you know, you were you were a kid. I mean, from what I understand, you know, you were not initially, you know, some kind of gifted athlete. You were, much like me, you know, the last kid picked for, you know, kickball or whatever playground game game was going on. And, you know, the future

• 28:21Rich Roll?

  didn't look bright in terms of sports for you, right? And you grew up in a very sports-oriented family, right? Your parents were both athletes, your sister was a star athlete.

• 28:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that's exactly right. Sporty family, sporty town in country Australia.

• 28:36Rich Roll?

  What does that mean in country?

• 28:38Speaker 01

  So in the bush, you know, I grew up with a dairy farm around the corner and and stuff like that. So right out in the country, about three and a half hours west of Sydney, a little town called Bathurst, give that a shout out, you know. But yeah, so really sporty family. And I all I played was was soccer, I played a bit of cricket. But that was it. And all I wanted to ever do was play for Australia in in soccer. And I worked at it. And, you know, from eight, nine, 10, I was just an average kid kicking a ball around. And then representative teams came about when we were 10, 11, 12. And all my mates were getting picked and stuff. And I literally always was the last one picked.

• 29:20Speaker 01

  Like, you know, people say all the time, but I very rarely played. I sat on the bench the whole time. But I didn't care because two things, I got to travel with my mates, would go away on the weekends and on holidays for tournaments, and I'd get the tracksuit. So I was like, I've got this tracksuit, you know, like, so that was that was a big thing for me. But yeah, always the last one picked. And then that was just for the local representative team. And then all my friends were getting picked for like, the regional team, things like that, and the state teams. And I never even got a look in. And then I hit around 14, I think it was. And I just thought, right, I need to become better, had to become better. And I kept getting knocked back by all these coaches and all these teams by saying, no,

• 30:04Speaker 01

  I'll better luck next year, you know what I mean? And it was hard, it was hardcore back then, because they would put everyone in front of you, and the coaches would read out all the names who'd get picked. And then that's like.

• 30:16Rich Roll?

  A public shaming.

• 30:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, if I call your name out, come and sit next to me and he calls out all the names of the players. And then there's like four or three little misfits sitting there around next to me. And he's like, okay, guys, better luck next year. See you later. And goes around with his team and starts talking about what they're gonna do. So it's it's it was a cut throat. You know, but I kept going up after every every knockback. What can I do better? How do I make the team next year? And I'd say, okay, you need to work on this, you need to work on that. And I'd go away and work on it. And then I hit about fourteen. And I don't know how it started, but I started to research nutrition for myself, sports nutrition. I thought, well, that's an area that I can get better at. I still don't know how that came about. And then I started training by myself a lot more and

• 31:00Speaker 01

  I'd get my dad to drop me to the gym in the mornings and like I'd just be doing stuff in the studio, like little sprint sessions or on the exercise bike and not I wouldn't be lifting any weights, but just doing free weight stuff. And I'd do that two or three times in the morning at six o'clock. And then I'd get dropped off at my grandmother's house, have a shower, have some breakfast and go to school. And I'm like a fourteen year old kid doing this off my own bat. And my parents had to change some of the foods that they cooked as well because I said, oh, no, I can't eat. Which is quite ironic now, but I can't eat fat. Fat's bad. I can't eat that. Oh, can you make your mashed potatoes with without any butter for me?

• 31:36Rich Roll?

  What is the typical bush diet?

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Meat and three veg.

• 31:39Rich Roll?

  In country.

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Meat and three veg.

• 31:41Rich Roll?

  What does that mean?

• 31:42Speaker 01

  So portion of meat normally where we were lamb was quite big. So a couple of big lamb chops or a big steak or some sausages and things like that. And then three types of vegetables and then there'd be always bread on the table and probably four or five times a week, there'd be like a lump of pasta on the side of the plate or rice or something like that. And.

• 32:01Rich Roll?

  That's pretty standard stuff.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, nothing, nothing out of the ordinary. Yeah, the meat was great. It was from around the corner and the veggies, most of it was locally grown and stuff. So it was still good quality, but that was it. So but I would start saying, no, I can't have any fat and I can't have too much of this. I can't have too much of that. And my parents, to be fair to them, they could have went, no, I'm not making two separate things because, you know, they both worked. It was a very busy, busy family. But they both saw that I was trying to make me better. I was trying to make a better athlete out of myself and trying to push myself forward. So they supported me with that. And you know, I always say to them, you know, thanks for the early days. And it was up not until I was like fifteen, when my dad convinced me to go and train for this team that played in the Sydney competition. So I travelled three and a half hours every second weekend. All my friends were

• 32:48Speaker 01

  going and I'm sure a few of them were going to get picked. And it was three age groups high, I was fifteen, it was like under eighteen's. And that's like, just go for fitness, it'd be great, go and do some fitness and whatever. And I went, I got picked. And I had no idea how I got picked. And the coach just basically pulled me aside and he goes, you've got great potential, you keep working hard and, and you know, good things will come. And then my career sort of blossomed from then.

• 33:14Rich Roll?

  That's great. I mean, really what I hear in that is that you were able to solve this equation of, of bridging the maybe innate talent gap by working harder, right?

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:25Rich Roll?

  And that's something I experienced as a swimmer, you know, I, you know, I was good, but I was never going to be great. And I knew that early on. And I went the extra mile and was able to kind of, you know, I was never going to be a star. And, you know, for me, it was always about, very similar to you, like, I just wanted to be part of the team, you know, like when I went to Stanford to swim, it was like, I got to wear the sweatsuit, you know, and I wasn't scoring a lot of points, but I got to like, train with the best and be around them and be part of something that was bigger than me. And I think really, that's, that's all I wanted. You know what I mean? That was more important than whatever my own personal sports goal was, you know, whatever my times were, or what have you. But, you

• 34:07Rich Roll?

  know, around fifteen is when I figured out the same thing, like, oh, if you work harder, like, that actually works.

• 34:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:13Rich Roll?

  You know, it's not gonna make you Michael Jordan or Pele, but, but, you know, it might just get you on the team.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. And over the next, like, three years, I was getting phone calls from the same coaches who kept knocking me back year after year and saying, are you gonna come and play for us at this tournament this year? And I'd be like, I'm gonna come and try out for the team. And they'd be going, no, no, no, don't worry, you don't need to try out early on the team. And it was getting picked for this one team and having this one coach install the confidence that I have in me today, that's where it came from. I wasn't an overly confident kid. I wasn't really all that confident at all, growing up. But once I got picked for this team out of the blue and this coach basically took him, took me under his wing and, you know, said, you've got great potential. Don't worry about all these other teams. You potentially can play for the States, you know, you potentially can be that

• 35:03Speaker 01

  good. And my confidence just went through the roof. And some people today say it's a little bit too much, but, uh, but that's where it all started. And yeah, I just put my head down from then and just worked hard. And, and, you know, I, I got to sort of play at highest level in Australia and then, um, yeah, achieved some really big goals.

• 35:24Rich Roll?

  So was there like, was there an opportunity to play on the Australian Olympic team? Or like, how does it work?

• 35:30Speaker 01

  So basically, growing up, you have an under seventeen squad, which is called the Joey's. All of the, uh, all of the, the Australian soccer team is named after some sort of like ruse, because you got the, the Joey's, the Ollie ruse, the Olympic ruse.

• 35:45Rich Roll?

  It's so Australian.

• 35:46Speaker 01

  And then the soccer ruse. But a lot of our sporting teams are named after some sort of animal from Australia. So you've got the under seventeens, so all the young kids who are like, growing up and gonna be stars, you know, they get picked for that, for that team. And then you've, depending on what, when the cycle is compared to the Olympics, you'll get the under twenty threes, which is for the Olympic squad. Uh, I was always a year or two below the age group for the under seventeen. So I'd be competing with people a year above me or two years above me. And then for the Olympics, I, I missed the cycle.

• 36:18Rich Roll?

  Right, right.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  But I wasn't, I wasn't quite that good, you know, I, I was always at the national tournaments getting looked at for scouts, by scouts for these national teams, but I never got a call. And I was fine with that. And, you know, two years ago, I wasn't even making the local team. Now I'm playing for the States.

• 36:35Rich Roll?

  Right. And then you, you become kind of this, well, you come to the States for college, right? And you kind of bounce around in the heartland, right? You were, you were at University of Louisville for a while and then you were in Oklahoma. That must have been an interesting transition.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Oh, man. I saw, I, I knew nothing about college sports. I was at University of Australia doing exercise science. And basically, someone said to me, why don't you go to America and play? They pay for all your school and they pay for everything. And you go over there and, you know, girls love the accents and, you know, this and that, whatever. And I'm like, okay, we'd all sign up. So basically, I knew nothing. And I talked to a guy who apparently knew something, but he ended up throwing me in the middle of Kentucky somewhere.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  I turn up and I'm like, yeah, right, where am I again? So, but it was cool. I lasted a season there and it just wasn't for me. The school, the school wasn't for me and the team just wasn't professional enough, to be honest. Uh, and just not good enough. I was playing. There was one or two guys in the team that were half decent to sort of my standard and, and the rest not quite there.

• 37:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, most of the good collegiate soccer programs are along the eastern seaboard.

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:49Rich Roll?

  Except for a few California schools, I think.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it was, it was a small NAIA school. Uh, and, uh, and then University of Louisville came knocking at the door and said, yeah, we want to come sign you up. That's good. Sorted that out. And as I said, I knew nothing about college sports and I was there and school was started. I did preseason with the team and then the NCAA red flagged me and said, no, hang on, you've played professionally. You've been paid before in Australia. And the coaches are like, have you? I'm like, yeah. And they're like, oh, no. So.

• 38:20Rich Roll?

  They never asked you. You probably just didn't even know, right?

• 38:23Speaker 01

  I, I didn't.

• 38:23Rich Roll?

  That was a thing.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  I didn't know, yeah. And then, and then one of the craziest times of my life was school was starting, uh, school had already started. I had three semesters before I graduated with my degree. The season was in, starting in five days and I was without a school. I'd had a full ride and that was gone and I needed to find a school. Like, no one's got a budget that's got a full ride for an international student, which is more than a, an American student. But I called up a few contacts that I've made throughout the States and I get this phone call from a coach in Oklahoma. You know, and said, yeah, I've heard about you. My friend called me about you, blah, blah, blah. We'll offer you a full ride and come out and play for us. And I was like, cool. He says, I'll see you tomorrow.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Uh, excuse me? He said, I'll see you tomorrow. I said, okay. So I went literally off the phone, went to a computer and Googled where the hell Oklahoma was.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  I had no idea. So rocked up out there and the team was full of internationals, which was, which was really cool. And a really good program in the N A I A, um, good school. And we were, we were ranked nationally in, you know, top two and three for the two seasons I played there. We got beat in the final four in one year, which I still think were the best team in the country that year, you know, but maybe biased. And, uh, yeah, so I graduated from there and then bounced around the States, playing in sort of some lower league stuff in Orlando and New Orleans and, and up in San Francisco as well.

• 39:48Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. And then you kind of became this journeyman professional throughout Europe, right? You played in Belgium?

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So then it was, you know, like I was never good enough to play in the top leagues throughout the world, but you don't need to make a career out of it just to be playing in the top, top league. You know, you can make normal money, that I like to call it, playing in the lower leagues. But yeah, you, you sometimes can be a journeyman. So I first went to the UK and bounced around there. Got a few short-term deals and a few little games here and there, and that didn't work out. And then I got a call from a friend who was playing in Belgium. He said, we need a defender come out for a trial. So jumped on a train from London, went to Belgium and 12 months later, that's my first season in, in Belgium was over. So yeah, did that and then went back to the UK. And then I had three years of injuries and that's where all the injuries started.

• 40:39Rich Roll?

  So looking at the injuries, I mean, that started to really plague you. That was sort of your undoing, undoing as a, as a professional athlete. I mean, looking back on that now, can you point to what was causing that or what you were doing? That was leading you to get perpetually injured that, you know, it seems like now you're training like a beast. You're not having these problems anymore. So what shifted?

• 41:03Speaker 01

  It's a good question.

• 41:03Rich Roll?

  Different kind of training, it's completely different thing, obviously, but, um, still it's, you know, repetitive, you know, motion.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  I think part of it is I don't know. I have no idea and I've got a great team of, a great medical team around me in London. Who I've seen over the years, who've seen me through all the football injuries. And none of them can say definite, oh, it was because of this, this and this. And there's no, it's not like a reoccurring injury. I was having injuries with my right foot and then, you know, I broke my collarbone and then had back injuries. So it wasn't, wasn't something that was always the same. So part of it, I just don't know and I'm okay with that right now. The other part of it was where I developed a more of a understanding of a holistic approach to, to life.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  And to training and, and balance where I wasn't happy in, in life. And I just thought, well, everyone's not happy at times. Just, you know, where I came from, you, you roll your sleeves up and get it done. You know, oh, you're unhappy. I say, what, you know, you're alive, you're breathing, you've got food and you've got shelter, you're fine. But sometimes it plays on you and I had a up and down relationship at the time with, with my ex-girlfriend and. And, and then just all the injuries, it just, and I wasn't really happy in London where I was, what I was doing. And I think, and I know now that soft tissue wise is, is really connected with my emotions, you know.

• 42:34Rich Roll?

  That's so interesting.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I, and I see that and I know that now, cause I tell this story to people when they sort of look at me really weird and I was like, yeah, well, if you, you know, if you're stressed or you're unhappy, you know, be careful cause you could get injured. And they're like, what are you talking about? And I said, well, look, I was fit, I was training for an ultra marathon, I had a fight with my girlfriend. Two days later, I stepped off a bus, tore my calf. And I was out for eight weeks. And there was nothing else in life that was wrong, except I had a fight with my girlfriend two weeks ago. And for me personally, soft tissue and my emotions are quite connected. So I think part of it was, was that as well. I just wasn't happy in life with the depression and that was like my body.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  You know, sort of gripping me and making me really tight inside. So when I'd go and try and do these ballistic exercises, sprinting and you change direction with football. It was breaking me down.

• 43:24Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a, that idea is a tough pill to swallow for a lot of people. But, you know, you're talking to the right guy. Like, I'm open to that. And I think that, you know, we don't, we don't really, you know, take a bird's eye view of our life in a holistic sense enough, you know? And the interplay between our emotional state and our mental state and our spiritual state and our physical state and our sleep and our nutrition, all of these things rely upon each other. And if they're out of balance, then something has to give. So if your emotional well-being is askew, it's going to impact you somehow. Now, the direct correlation between that and a calf pull, you know, that's a, that's a stretch

• 44:07Rich Roll?

  for certain people, but, you know, I can see the connection there. You know, if anything, it's a, it's sort of a, you know, a call to action or a reminder to, to be more mindful of that interplay. It's delicate.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  No, it is, it is. And that's, as I said, that's what I really sort of got into, looking into holistic approaches to life, mindfulness, meditation and different relaxation techniques. Because, you know, bottom line, I was doing the same thing everyone else was doing, getting up every day, doing what I needed to do. There was nothing special about my life in regards to everyone else. But I just kept breaking down. I couldn't do what I, what I loved to do. And so I needed to find, as, you know, in my whole little OCD world, I needed to find what was, what was causing this. And then I had a few people around me that kept trying to push me sort of a holistic approach. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like a lot of people in life, yeah, that sounds good, but it's a bit airy-fairy.

• 45:07Speaker 01

  And then I was, screw it, I'm going to have a look at it. And I threw myself into it. And I was like, wow, I've got great results, you know?

• 45:12Rich Roll?

  So what kind of things were you exploring?

• 45:15Speaker 01

  I, I was doing some sort of like meditation courses and things like that. And then creating my own sort of relaxation techniques. Because we did, growing up, when I was sort of playing elite, sort of my teens football, we had different sort of yoga teachers come in and different.

• 45:34Speaker 01

  People who would come in and teach us sort of meditation, relaxation techniques when we would go away to camps and stuff to do that. So I went back, because we all thought that was just a joke, but I went back to try that type of stuff. And I looked into a few mindful courses and learned a little bit more about that. I didn't actually do any, but for me, just actually looking into it was was a big step, you know. And yeah, so I did a bit of meditation and then just looked outside the mainstream box. So that was really cool.

• 46:00Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. So meditate, was there a specific type of meditation that you were exploring or just?

• 46:05Speaker 01

  No, I, you know, me sitting still and just concentrating on my breath or concentrating on one thought or trying to not concentrate. That's, you know, that was pretty hard, like it is for most people, but actually just doing it and stopping. That was where I was at. So it was almost like just making time for me to stop and trying to listen to my body and and listen to myself. You know, when when you when you shut everything down and you and you have no external stimulus and you actually listen to

• 46:36Speaker 01

  your inside, so to speak, if you're, when you're open to that, it actually speaks and you can hear what what your body's trying to tell you. You know, and I found that really fascinating because I got some good results and, you know, I was I was listening and I was doing what sort of my body, body told me.

• 46:51Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. Yeah, that's really cool. That's really cool. I like so in the in in terms of the timeline, was this happening after your calf injury? When you're starting to get ready for Marathon de Sable or was this during the soccer career?

• 47:03Speaker 01

  This was, this was sort of during the end of the soccer career. I was just starting to tap into it, you know, because the depression was getting pretty bad where I wasn't even leaving the house. You know, my my parents live on the other side of the world and we would normally Skype or chat every couple of weeks. And I'd text them and say, I look really busy, can't chat to you and going months without talking to them. Which, you know, they're my, they're my heroes, you know. My parents, they're on the pedestal and I, I couldn't even talk to them because I knew as soon as I said hello to my mum, she knew, she would know something would be wrong and she would sort of try and figure out for the first couple of, uh, first couple of sentences and then she'd leave it, but I knew that she'd always be thinking about it. So I didn't want to worry her. I thought the best way to do that is not talk to her.

• 47:47Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 47:47Speaker 01

  And I was like, this is not healthy. So I needed to try and do something about it. So that was towards the end of the career. Um, and I, I started to look into sort of that holistic approach.

• 47:55Rich Roll?

  Right, interesting. So you're on the couch, you got this calf injury, you, you know, you, you send your deposit in for Marathon de Sable and then, you know, you know, so you got six months to get ready for this insanity and, you know, how long was it before your calf healed? And, and you set about preparing and what did that preparation look, look like?

• 48:13Speaker 01

  It was, I think I had to have three or four weeks off. So basically I had five, five weeks, uh, five months to prepare. My physio, who had seen me for several years, I, I rocked up and, and I went, yeah, I'm done. He's like, oh, okay. I can see it in your face. It's a good decision and this and that. And he knew me really well. He still knows me really well. And I said, yeah, I've signed up to something. And he's like, oh, why? Because you, you're not signed up to like do an Ironman or something like that, have you? I'm like, no. I've signed up to this and he just went, oh, what are you doing? So basically I had, he got me fixed and we, like, he has no endurance sports background.

• 48:55Speaker 01

  He was a physio for a, a premiership football club at the time and worked with a lot of elite athletes. But he said, let's devise a plan together. He knows my body better than myself and to a degree. And we devised a training plan and basically it was all about loading five times, four to five times a week to start with, just doing some runs. And, you know, I knew nothing about sports nutrition or anything like that. And I was like, yeah, I need to buy these gels. I went and bought out those gels and I remember. The first time I took one mid-run, I was going on like a, an eight mile run and I had one at halfway. So, oh, I don't wanna bonk, I don't wanna bonk. So I had like a gel after four miles.

• 49:32Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  And I look back now and think, you idiot. But, uh, yeah.

• 49:36Rich Roll?

  That's common. I mean, y- you know, out here on the trails, I don't know what you saw this morning, if you saw people out there. But there's a lot of people that they just pack so much stuff for, for maybe, you know, an hour, hour and a half or something like that. And you just don't need that stuff. You know, we've been brainwashed into thinking that you gotta, you gotta bring tons of stuff with you. If you're just gonna venture out into nature for a short period of time.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. We're gonna have a whole nother podcast on real food and my thoughts on that, but we'll talk about that later. So, yeah, I, basically, we worked together, Mo and I, my physio. And after a couple of weeks, I said to him, I wanna finish in the top fifty. The elite top fifty in the Marathon de Sarce is like a sort of a, a sort of a club type of thing. You finish in the top fifty, it's like amazing. And, and what they do is after the first three days, there's a long day, which is basically a double marathon on the fourth day and fifth day. And the elite top fifty start three hours later. So they finish closer to the rest of the group. And although I went into, I, so I wanted to train to finish in the top fifty.

• 50:41Speaker 01

  So it was not just become an ultra runner in five months to do a hundred fifty-five miles in a week. It was finishing the top fifty. And he saw the look in my eye and he's like, I can't convince you out of this. I'm like, no, I'm doing it. So we trained for that. We got up to, I was running within two months, like a hundred miles a week.

• 51:00Rich Roll?

  Wow. That's a very short period of time to ramp up to that kind of volume.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:04Rich Roll?

  I'm shocked you didn't get injured.

• 51:07Speaker 01

  I did.

• 51:09Speaker 01

  Uh, literally.

• 51:10Rich Roll?

  Especially with your history of injury.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:12Rich Roll?

  That's not a responsible ramp.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  No, not at all. But I was doing it and that was it. Um, but I did, I did take an injury into the race. My ITB flared up just from the amount of load that I had. But, you know, as you said, it's irresponsible and it's a stupid amount of loading in such a short time. But now, looking back, the whole reason I signed up to the Marathon de Sables is not that I wanted to be an endurance athlete or anything like that. It was, I don't want to deal with life.

• 51:41Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  I needed something to take my mind off what I'm gonna do. I needed something to take my mind off that I've retired from the career that all of everyone wanted to do since I was four years old was play soccer. So that was just a massive sidestep. And I thought, well, if I do this, then this is gonna give me six months to not worry about anything else. And I'm just gonna focus on this. And if I say I'm gonna finish in the top fifty, well, then I need to train hard every day. I need to focus on all the preparation and testing of the kit. And then if I, and then if I do this, everyone else is not gonna ask me, what am I gonna do next? Because they know I'm gonna be doing this. So it was, I almost like tried to trick everyone and trick myself that, oh, I'm, I'm gonna deal with life once I finish this. So it was giving me another six months to prepare

• 52:27Speaker 01

  for that. And that was, in hindsight, looking back, that's the reason why I signed up to Marathon de Sables.

• 52:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, let's camp out here for a little bit and park it, because I think this is a really important, um, topic. And I think it's a common thing. You know, I've seen it, um, in a lot of people. And I think a lot of people are not, I mean, you're, you're, you know, you're owning that. But I think there's a lot of people out there that, you know, are either not owning it or are unconscious of the extent to which they're using endurance sports to escape from some other aspect of their life, you know. You see, whether it's an unhappy marriage, or some kind of childhood trauma, or a career they don't like, it's a very, because it's so all-consuming.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 53:09Rich Roll?

  And you can become so obsessed, if you're, you know, if you're like you or you're like me, it's very easy to invest maybe too much of yourself in, in this goal and have your life kind of pivot around it to the exclusion of so many other important things in your life. Um, and then it can become like a very easy to, I don't know if denial's the right word, but to kind of dismiss other aspects of your life with this kind of focus. And, you know, I think it's okay in a short-run context, but in terms of a lifestyle that has sustainable, you know, qualities to it, not so good, right? And, and, and I think it can perpetuate whatever, I think, you know, disorder is not the right word, it's too severe, but, you know, maybe, you know, prevent you from...

• 53:56Rich Roll?

  Some interpersonal growth by by putting a barrier between you and whatever issue it is that you kind of need to grapple with and get to the other side of.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I totally agree. It's the whole endurance sports takes time to prepare for because you have to understand the sports that you're doing. You have to do the training and it's long, you know, you spend hours and hours every week. And if you have a nine to five, well, any time you have that is before or after work. So if you've got, as you said, and I don't have to be married or something else, then yeah, it's a great way to say, look, I'm doing this. I've got to do it. I've got to get away.

• 54:30Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  But yeah, I've seen it too. So many people that are just doing all these endurance sports to run away from something or a lot of times run away from themselves. Yeah, they're battling depression or something like that. And the only time they feel alive is when they go out and run, you know, four or five hours. I've been like that, you know, I battered with insomnia for a long time due to a relationship breakup. And that's what that's what started that. And I had insomnia and and when I had my low days, yeah, I use endurance sports. I use running. Like, I left my house in in West London and ran to the middle of London, running down Oxford Street at four o'clock on a Wednesday morning, literally no one else there with all the, you know, the big shops and stuff like that,

• 55:16Speaker 01

  running down the middle there. And I'd do like 20 miles, 25 miles between, you know, two and five in the morning, come home and then start my work because I just I couldn't sleep. But, you know, instead of just sitting at home and doing whatever, I was like, I'm screwed. I'm going to go for a run and.

• 55:31Rich Roll?

  Yeah, to be fair, I mean, I think that endurance sports also provides the opportunity to help you answer those questions for yourself. And all that time alone gives you kind of that space and freedom to be with yourself, to wrestle with some of that stuff. I think it's in your relationship and approach to it, you know, and I've been in both places, you know, I look back on things that I've done and and I can see, you know, the obsessive nature of it, but I can also see how it's helped me. So it's not a, you know, it's it's not one one thing or the other. You know what I mean?

• 56:02Speaker 01

  No, it's not. And it's.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  You have to be able to take a look out and look in to yourself to see if it's been detrimental or if it's helping you. And it's a very fine line. It's a very fine line. And I found that in myself and also with with other friends and and clients who I train now. I train some ultra runners. And yeah, some of my friends, I'm, you know, I've seen them. They're just like, you're doing too much. Why? I always ask, why? What's going on in life? Not about training or races, you'll be fine, but what's going on in life? And with close friends, you can dig a little bit deeper and you normally find something. But it's a very fun line to, yeah, it's gonna help you or it's gonna hinder you. So it's really trying to take a look in from the outside to see what's going on.

• 56:49Rich Roll?

  Right. I mean, when you're struggling with insomnia and you're going through this breakup, you know, maybe going out and going for a run at four o'clock in the morning is a great way to process it and get to the other side of that and and deal with, you know, your pain in a in a constructive way as opposed to going out to the pub or taking oxycontin or, you know, whatever depression pharmaceutical that I'm sure some shrink would, you know, freely prescribe to you. So, you know, at the same time, if you're if you're relying on it or you're dependent upon, you know, that outlet as a way of avoiding as opposed to embracing whatever it is you're going through. I think it becomes a different animal.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, no, totally, totally. It's, um, yeah, and that's what it is. It is an animal. And you've got to learn when to, uh, when to tame it and when to let it go.

• 57:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's well put.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, which can be tough.

• 57:45Rich Roll?

  All right. So marathon to sob. So you're you're you're gunning for top fifty. So what happens? You go in with an IT ban.

• 57:53Speaker 01

  Well, I had two cortisone injections before I went out there to make it last, which everyone, it was like an elephant in the room when I went to see my sports specialist. And he's like, you know, I don't really wanna do this. I'm like, yeah, I know, but I need to get through this. So he gave me two shots. Uh, you know, very stubborn. And there was an elephant in the room that we all knew it wasn't gonna work, but I wanted it anyway. And went out on the first day, felt great for like twenty Ks of like thirty two. And I was like, actually, this is, this is gonna work, this is gonna work. Then after twenty Ks, it just went ping. And I hobbled for like the last ten or twelve Ks that day. I finished in like twentieth position.

• 58:32Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  For the day, but I knew my race was over because anyone that's had. Uh, an I T problem or heard about it, it's, it's an inflammation injury, basically. And so if you continue to run on it or continue to use it, it's just gonna get worse and worse. And I'd finished the first day. I was like twentieth and all my tent mates were like, ah, this is crazy. It's great. You know, we've, we've got someone in our tenth, twentieth and this and that. And I was like, look, my race is over. I'm done because I know it's gonna get worse. The next day I went out. I finished like thirtieth, so I was still in the top fifty, but I struggled through. My knee was getting worse. My feet got torn to pieces.

• 59:06Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  Um, and you know, people say, oh, did you not try your shoes out? I tried like five different shoes. I tried like ten different pairs of socks and shorts and backpacks. Like I went full O C D on my kit. Tried and tested everything, spent six weeks in Oz, testing it all out in the, in the hot weather. So.

• 59:23Rich Roll?

  And the kit for M D S is so specific, you know, for people that are listening that aren't familiar. I mean, you gotta wear these crazy gaiters over your, your, your shoes and your, your. Ankles and calves to prevent the finely ground sand from getting in there and, and. You know, this, everything down from that sock to, you know, every single item that's in your backpack, cause you gotta carry everything. I mean, it's a whole thing.

• 59:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta make it light, as light as possible. But you've got mandatory kit and you've got food for the whole week. So they, they say you have to have two thousand, on average, two thousand calories a day for seven days.

• 59:59Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 59:59Speaker 01

  So you're gonna have, you gotta show them before each day, they check everyone, fourteen thousand calories. Well, I went, well, I'm trying to finish in the top fifty. I'm gonna take the minimum, bare minimum, that's fine. So I literally took on average two thousand, two hundred, two thousand, two hundred calories a day per average. And yeah, if I didn't need it, I didn't take it, you know, and you have to, you have to like try and minimize your weight because you're carrying that all the time. So, yeah, so I, I did that and finished the second day in like thirtieth or something and my feet got torn up just from the terrain, you know, I couldn't replicate that terrain because there's loads of dunes and my feet um were sweating in the, you know, like the hundred and ten, hundred fifteen, twenty degree heats and then my, my feet got blistered

• 1:00:44Speaker 01

  and everything like that and my toes just got torn to pieces and so that was getting worse. And then day three, I got up and I had a stomach virus because you're out in the middle of the desert and there's like little, little huts for people to go to the toilet to do like a number two and everyone was doing a number one would walk past the huts and every day after you get tired, the people who were just like going to the toilet to pee, they were getting closer and closer to literally, it was like twenty meters outside your tent and guys are just peeing.

• 1:01:11Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  And, and no, but no one cared because you're like, I'm not complaining because when I need to go, I'm not walking any further than that. So I got a stomach um sort of like a virus, whatever, and I, and I had diarrhea and stuff. So that was dehydrating me and whatever. And after three days, I was still in the top fifty, but I knew it was only gonna get worse. And then uh then the big day, the big day started, I was still in the top fifty, I was like forty something on the long day and I started three hours later with all the, you know, the pros and everyone and I'm sitting there in this tent, like literally there's three tents in the middle of the desert with no one else around. There's like fifty males and fifty, and five females and they start together and they're talking about different races and what have you done, what have that done? And they said, oh, have you done any other big races? I said, this is my first race.

• 1:01:57Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  And they're like, what do you mean? And I'm like, I've never done an ultra marathon before. Oh, you must, have you done plenty of marathons? No, I've never done a marathon before either. What about half marathons? No, I've never done one of them. And they're, what are you doing here? I just thought I'd come along and give it a go. And you're still in the top fifty? I'm like, apparently. And they went, you're crazy. But um that day was an experience. I did eighty four Ks. I had an intravenous drip after the twenty because I was so dehydrated and I was like collapsing over and falling over. And they basically said to me, you have a drip or we pull you out. You don't, I didn't get a choice.

• 1:02:32Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  So I was like, held my arm up to them. I was like, right. Slap it on, let's do this. So I laid in the desert for three hours with the intravenous drip getting pumped full of IV.

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  Which was an experience and then I had to get up and run.

• 1:02:44Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and that, I mean, that aspect of it is really not about your IT band or your knee. That's probably experience.

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that was, that was because I got the virus the day before. I was so dehydrated and you get rationed water. So I couldn't, couldn't get enough into me. But yeah, that was just down to, you know, numerous things. But my IT band was still struggling and I was hobbling and walking a lot. And, and then I still had like, you know, sixty five case to go that day and I ended up finishing in, uh, it was like sixteen hours and I got a three hour time penalty because I got a drip, you know? They give you a drip for survival, but they give you a time penalty at the same time. And then I was like a hundred and something and I had two days to go, run a marathon and then six, and then ten miles. And then I finished in like two hundredth position or something. But I finished, I got the finisher's medal and, and then came back to London and had to face up to life.

• 1:03:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So let's get into that. But did it, did it, did it make you want to go back and, and go for top fifty again? Based on what you learned or you just feel like you did it?

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  I got the finisher's medal. Uh, there's too many scars. I've got love, not love hate, but love. Don't put yourself through that again in a relationship with the MBS.

• 1:04:04Rich Roll?

  Alright, so you, so when you get back and you've kind of, you know, checked that box, do you have like an avalanche of depression that now comes on top of you because now you gotta deal with your life and you don't have this excuse anymore?

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 1:04:18Rich Roll?

  So what did that look like?

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  Dark and lonely, to be honest. I, I had a girlfriend, the same, the same girlfriend that I had for, for, for a while. And, you know, she was pretty concerned, but I wouldn't even let her in. You know, we were together for several years and I was shutting her out and, um, couldn't run, couldn't do anything. Uh, so I took up, you know, I wanted to learn how to kayak. So I, I would go to kayaking lessons with a, with a team a couple of nights a week and learning how to do all the Eskimo roles. And, you know, just threw myself in something else. But I did have to face up to life and what I was gonna do and. You know, so I had to, I had to sit down with myself a fair few times and think about it. And, you know, there were a lot of days where I just couldn't because of depression would just grip me.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  And I, yeah, there, there was, there was never any dark thoughts or anything like that. But I would find myself just going to work, finishing a couple of clients who I trained and then just walking and without a purpose and just not, not think about anything, just being blank. Because it's like, well, I, I don't feel anything. So I would just go. And, and I always come to like maybe ten, twenty, thirty minutes after and be like, where am I? What am I doing here?

• 1:05:31Rich Roll?

  Was there some kind of instinct to just sign up for another race? Because at least when you can throw yourself into that, it alleviates that pain. Or was there an awareness that, that, that that wasn't going to solve it, that you actually had to kind of walk through it?

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  There was an awareness that I couldn't just keep doing it. I did it once. I got a good six, seven months out of it. Look what, you know, I had a great experience. I've got some lifelong friends who I still keep in contact with and still see on a regular basis. It was, it was amazing, amazing time out there, but also, you know, very tough. And I did learn a lot about myself, but I knew that I just couldn't keep doing that because life's too short. So I went, well, okay, what am I gonna do, you know, with my life? I, you know, personal training's great, but for me, it's a feather in the cap. It's not the whole cap, you know? So I went, right, I wanna be an adventurer. And started telling people like when they asked, so what are you gonna do now? You're not playing soccer. And so I'm gonna be an adventurer.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Always met with laughter. And then, what the hell is that?

• 1:06:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah, what is that?

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  I didn't know, but that's what I wanted to do.

• 1:06:38Rich Roll?

  Indiana Jones.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, you know, Bear Grylls and all that type of stuff. And so I, I researched into loads of different avenues. TV and books and writing and, and what all these other adventures in the UK and in the US and around the world were doing. And I thought I needed to find something unique, I needed to find something different. And I was looking at things like the world's highest, the world's longest race. I thought I'll stick with running because that's what I know. Maybe I'll buy a bike and because I'd never owned a bike at that stage and yeah, I'll maybe do some cycling stuff. So I was writing down, researching all these crazy adventures and stuff. And I came with an idea that I wanted to do the world's highest, the world's hottest, the world's wettest races.

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  And I thought I'll put them into a nice little package and do them over sort of eighteen months or two years, whatever. And boom, there you go. There's a TV show. Look at me, I'm famous. Not that I want to be famous, but look at me, I've got a career, I'm an adventurer. Boom, that was easy, you know, it sounds, anyone can do that. So then I found the world's highest race, which was the Mount Everest Ultra. And it'd only been going for like two years. I thought that's, that's pretty cool. Go to Nepal, hang out, do that, do a race, sweet. So I signed up for that, but that was not, literally it was twelve months after the MDS. So the whole adventurer thing was, was up and flying. That's what I'm gonna do. People laughed at me all the time. Just went, you're an idiot, grow up. You know, even my mum went, yeah, we'll support you.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  And that's what you wanna do, then.

• 1:08:08Rich Roll?

  A lot of job security.

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:11Rich Roll?

  You know, it's interesting, I had, um, I, I did a podcast with a guy called Dan Buettner, uh, who wrote the Blue Zones books. And, and, you know, he had a similar aspiration as a young person. Like he, he had the opportunity to spend a little time working with George Plimpton. He's kind of a legendary, uh, writer and bon vivant and writer, like personal hero of mine. The guy's like done everything, right? And he said that, you know, he would go to these crazy parties in Manhattan with all these fancy people that had tons of money. But everybody just wanted to talk to George because George had lived a life. You know, whether it's like Peter Beard or George Plimpton, like these guys that just lived large through experience.

• 1:08:54Rich Roll?

  Not because of wealth or privilege or anything like that, but by taking risks and doing crazy stuff and going to amazing places and collecting stories and, you know, knowledge and experiences that they could share with other people and then write about or, you know, express in other ways. And Peter, I don't know, do you know who Peter Beard is? An amazing artist who went to Africa, you know, I mean. You know, there's something really cool and extremely alluring about that, you know, for a young guy who, you know, is facing a choice of, you know, life in a cubicle or something else. And in Dan's case, he did it, you know, he went and he went on these crazy cycling treks and rode his bike across Africa and Russia and did all these

• 1:09:37Rich Roll?

  things and wrote about it and persisted and got a lot of no's, but ultimately, you know, became a National Geographic Fellow and, you know, does, now he's doing what he does today. But, but, you know, to sort of propose that you're gonna live this adventuresome life is to expose yourself to, if not mockery, to at least a raised eyebrow.

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  Oh, there was more than raised eyebrows, but, yeah, but I thought, well, why not? I was 28 at the time, had my whole life in front of me, so to speak, and I thought, I'll give myself, what did I say back then? I give myself five years and if it all falls to pieces, you know, I'll be in my early 30s and I'll, and I'll go and sit in a cubicle for the rest of my life. But I'll give it a go, you know, why not? So, over the years, I thought, right, I need to have a bit of a plan at the same time, because I can't just go willy-nilly and, and see what happens. I need to have some sort of plan. So I thought...

• 1:10:33Rich Roll?

  These are not cheap adventures.

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  No, they're not. So...

• 1:10:37Rich Roll?

  I mean, MDS in and of itself, that's like, the price tag on that is huge.

• 1:10:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was my whole savings. Like, see, that's another thing. Like, I had, not loads, but I had a bit of savings and I was just like, okay, here's a deposit. Yeah, okay, boom. Let me just transfer some money. Okay, here's the rest. Okay, oh, savings, zero. Right, cool, now I'm doing this. So I literally put everything into it. And then when I said, told everyone I'd come back, I'm gonna be an adventurer, they were just, like, what are you doing? I said, well, okay, that's all cool. So I had this, this plan where 2013, I was gonna develop content to be an adventurer. And I thought, at the end of 2013, I wanna be able to tell people that, well, what do you do? And I'll say, I'm an adventurer. And they say, well, okay, what makes you that? And I wanna be able

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  to tell people that this is what I've done, at the same time developing content and, and also, looking back now, developing my brand. So I did have some sort of plan. But where the ultimate triathlon, where we touched on earlier, came from... I went bigger than that and went, right, I need to do something unique, massive, epic, never been done before to put me on the map. But I can't do it now, I need to plan in in the future. So I said, three years, I'm I'm gonna do this. So I looked at a world map, I kid you not, and just went, give me something, come on, baby, give me something. And the route from Morocco to Monaco just sort of, just came to me.

• 1:12:08Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  I saw the strait and went, well, maybe I can swim that. I'm not a swimmer. I grew up swimming, I learned to swim when I was like four or five and never done any squads or anything like that. And I could swim probably a hundred meters or so, but that was about it. And didn't even own a bike. But I saw this and I thought, yeah, I could swim that, cycle that, run that. And then spent six months researching if it was possible, and I thought it was. And I said, right, in three years, I'm gonna do Morocco to Monaco. And then that's where that started from.

• 1:12:36Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm, mm hmm. And in the meantime, gaining experience by doing these other races, like you went to, you went to, you went to Nepal, you spent a month there, yeah?

• 1:12:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:45Rich Roll?

  And the Everest Ultra Marathon, which, what does that look like? I mean, what does that entail? Like, there's a lot of downhill, right? Like, are you running around the base? Like, what?

• 1:12:53Speaker 01

  That's, that's what it is. So the whole Nepal trip was to go and do the Everest Ultra.

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  But my brain went, hang on, there's another opportunity here. Why don't I talk to the race director and see if he knows any of the elite ultra marathon runners in Nepal? And can I go and hang out and live with them in their, in their family homes and stuff like that? Yeah, and learn from them and see what they do. And I said, look, ask me if I can bring my, my camera and I'll film some of the stuff as well. And yeah, maybe make a little, um, documentary type thing, see what happens. And he went, yeah, cool, no worries. You're gonna be here for ten days, here for ten days, there and there. And I was like, okay. Literally went out there and knew not what was really gonna happen. And I had the most amazing time of my life, staying with these families high up in the mountains where no foreigners had ever been before, no water.

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  No electricity, you know, sleeping next to buffaloes, drinking freshly um milked buffalo milk every morning and stuff, eating with my hands off the floor with these guys, helping them farm their little crops around uh their land. And it was just an eye-opening experience that these people live every day for survival. That's it. They get up, they prepare food because they need to eat, and then they'll farm around the land or they'll sort their house out if there's a few things that need to, like little jobs around the house, and they sort their food out for their evening meal, and they sort that out, done, go to bed, get up, do it all over. Happiest people I've ever met.

• 1:14:20Rich Roll?

  Are they all okay in the wake of the earthquake? Are you in touch with them?

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I I keep in contact with about seven Nepalese people that live out there. Unfortunately, two had their houses just flattened. So we're throwing the hat around at the moment uh through the sort of the community of ultra runners and a few different westerners who who know some of the runners quite well to try and to try and help out and get their houses rebuilt because they're in quite remote areas. And even still now, uh one of them who's a phenomenal runner, has got some podiums in Europe and won some races in Hong Kong, he's very close to me. He uh he's had no aid, no nothing. So they've just been sleeping next to this rubble and he's been sorting that out and trying to get food in from different villages around. So it's, yeah, it's it's it's hit me pretty

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  hard because it's like anything, when you see your friends or your family going through struggle, it hits hits home pretty, pretty close.

• 1:15:15Rich Roll?

  Hmm. What do you think you, like, if you could crystallize what you took away from that experience of immersing yourself in that culture that kind of informed your daily approach to life, what would that look like? What would that be?

• 1:15:29Speaker 01

  To live it every day. And that's what I try and and. Portray from what I'm trying to do, so live life every day and enjoy it and embrace whatever comes your way, cause that's what they do, you know, their whole life's about survival. But the happiest people I've ever met, you know, and they've got nothing, they all they, all they do is eat, take care of the small possessions they have, which is their house and animals, that's it.

• 1:15:54Rich Roll?

  And we have everything and we're miserable.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  And we're still unhappy.

• 1:15:57Rich Roll?

  Depressed.

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. What, there's a red light?

• 1:15:59Rich Roll?

  I have to go out and run ultra marathons to feel alive.

• 1:16:02Speaker 01

  I know, I know, it's crazy. It's crazy, but some good runners too, ridiculous.

• 1:16:08Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't think of Nepal as being a hop out of, you know, ultra runners.

• 1:16:12Speaker 01

  It's coming, it's coming, yeah. There's some quality.

• 1:16:15Rich Roll?

  Is that, is that, is that sort of woven into the culture or how does that come to pass?

• 1:16:19Speaker 01

  No, on the whole Nepalese, and I, and I mean this with love, cause I love Nepalese people, they're lazy, they'll walk across the road, even if there's cars coming in front, they'll be like, stop, shh, I don't wanna run. Um, no, there's basically, the Nepalese army's quite big, so guys will go into the army and they'll do their two hours of physical training every day and then some of them will run, you know, and that's what they'll do. Or the, the running scene is slowly getting bigger out there, or people just live in the mountains, so they're trekkers and they're guides and they're super fit and they can run up and down mountains, cause that's what they do to keep fit and they've never really done races, but you know, they go run up until they can't breathe anymore and come

• 1:17:01Speaker 01

  back down at altitude, so to speak, but uh, yeah, and then there's been a few people who have moved out there, there's been a few Nepalese guys who sort of tried to create races and stuff over the last sort of seven or eight years really, and a few of them have, have popped up, when I was out there, there was a few guys that were on the radar, had a few results in Hong Kong, so myself and a few other people um, have tried to help them get to Europe and get to other races and a couple went to Australia, one of them's in Australia at the moment, doing a big race, the North Face 100 next weekend, and you know, some of them have got some good results and. You know, it's just the fact that they're still not sponsored. They've got no money. So it's all fundraising from word of mouth and stuff like that. But they're hard workers and they're hard people.

• 1:17:47Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. So did you end up cutting some film together from that experience?

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've got, I've got loads of footage. Yeah, so I'm, you know, balancing a lot of plates and, and that's one that I've been trying to balance for a long time. I've got a couple of mates who are professional editors. Um, and we're gonna work on that to try and cut that down to anywhere between sort of ten and thirty minutes for, and try and throw it on the adventure film festival scene.

• 1:18:10Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Um, I say by the start of next year, but I could say this time next year, by the start of next year.

• 1:18:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'll, it'll come and it'll be ready when it's ready. It's, um, yeah, it's there. I've got some really cool footage. And I, and I did go there with a script in mind. I didn't just go and wave the camera around. So I went in there to try and be as professional as I could with knowing absolutely nothing about filmmaking or anything like that. So, um, but we'll see.

• 1:18:36Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. Interesting. And, and so at some point, uh, you decide it's time to buy a bike and sign up for a triathlon. Like, you get back from Nepal and then what? Um. Where does the double Ironman race idea pop in? That's just the next adventure. That's the scary thing?

• 1:18:55Speaker 01

  No, you, you're missing a few things. You're missing the, the best one. The reason why I bought, bought the bike. I thought, what's a cool adventure? I thought, well, I'm an Aussie living in London. I don't know how to surf. I'm gonna learn to surf. And I said, all right, okay, where do you learn to surf in the UK? And there's sort of a famous surf beach down in the southwest called Newquay. Went, right, I'm gonna surf down there. Okay, I'll catch a train down on the Saturday and I'll learn to surf on the Sunday and take my little camera and my little GoPro and do that, stick it on the board. And well, hang on, how far is it? It's like, oh, yeah, it's like four hundred Ks, which is like two hundred and sixty miles or whatever. I could cycle that. So then I bought a bike.

• 1:19:36Speaker 01

  And basically.

• 1:19:37Rich Roll?

  I just climbed on it and rode down there or did you train?

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  No, I trained. I spent five months riding and just thrashed myself around and then I said, right, I'm gonna do it on the summer solstice, so the longest day of the year. I thought that's a good idea. It was the end of June, it's normally pretty good weather. The weather leading up to that was was great, really nice and sunny and warm and, you know, like seventy degrees, seventy five degrees, perfect, you know, great for a long day in the saddle. Got my crew sorted. They were gonna leave like three or four hours after I left. I left at four in the morning and they were gonna meet me along the way and stop and start and whatever and I was just gonna keep going and change some drink bottles, whatever.

• 1:20:20Speaker 01

  Woke up, it was pouring with rain, wind, like gusts of twenty five miles an hour and it was rough and I wake up and I text the crew and went, see you later. And they went, really? And I got on the bike, it was still dark, had the lights going, it was pouring, it was horrible. And I just kept going and I just kept going and went down sort of one of the main roads, basically all the way down, so the most direct route. And I was getting thrown around, like I bounced off several trucks. My shoulder got got knit by a few things, never got knocked off, but just because I get thrown around. And just kept going and going and going and eventually after, and I did all this with a surf school, like

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  they knew I was coming and they helped out pitch in for the trip. So we get down there after eighteen hours, nonstop cycling, wind and rain and battered. I was just, I was, I wasn't a broken man, I just wasn't very happy. And I turned up and there was like eighty, eighty people or so out the front of this pub and we're staying in the hotel across from it. And then they're like, here he is, here he is, singing and cheering. I didn't realize they were there for me. They had a bit of a welcoming party and they were singing Queen's Bicycle Song as I came on, like, my bicycle, bicycle. And I thought that was, that was pretty awesome. And then the next day we, we got up and learnt to surf and I can surf. I got up on my first wave, wasn't very pretty, but I still stood up on the board. And there's a little like, all of that was rolled into like four minutes

• 1:21:48Speaker 01

  and there's a little clip on my website when people go and see me cycling in the wind and the rain and and trying to.

• 1:21:53Rich Roll?

  That just sounds miserable.

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  It was horrible.

• 1:21:56Rich Roll?

  Riding in the rain is the worst.

• 1:21:57Speaker 01

  And the wind. It was, it was, and a main road too.

• 1:22:01Rich Roll?

  You didn't want to just go, well, why don't we just do it tomorrow?

• 1:22:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, come on, you know me well enough now, that's not gonna happen. It's like, right, doing it, let's go.

• 1:22:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I got you, man, I like it.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  So, yeah, so that that happened and then I went out to support some Nepalese runners in Hong Kong at a race, a big race out there, and I thought, well, let's um, let's back on adventure on the back of this going to Hong Kong stuff. And found a little island up the south coast of of Hong Kong called Hainan, province of China. And I thought, I'll go there for like three or four days and go and run through that. And yeah, it's a cool little adventure. Yeah, with developing content for my brand in mind. And and then I went out there and uh, got to got to Hong Kong and stay in my cousin's house, who lives out there, and got delayed going to Hainan because a typhoon went through the Philippines a couple of years back.

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  And that was on straight path up through Hainan and that wiped out that island as well. Not as bad as Philippines, but but pretty bad. And so my whole trip basically went from like five days to like three days. And I got up there and I was just devastated, but I still wanted to go up in the middle of the mountains. And I was gonna do some running through the mountains, sleep in a hammock and and all that stuff and take my little GoPro and do that. And but basically it turned around to, my car didn't work, I had no money, had no cash, had no food, had nothing, and nowhere to go. And I was ninety kilometers from the airport and basically I had like two days to get back to the airport. And it's the most real adventure I've ever done because this girl from the hotel,

• 1:23:33Speaker 01

  who I was trying to get a room at and it wouldn't work, she she took me around to the banks. Like, can I get some money out? No banks, no one spoke English. She was communicating with an iPhone app.

• 1:23:45Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  Like in, she was Mandarin or whatever she was speaking and and typing it in, punching out in English. And it was it was crazy time. And then she ended up paying for a cheap hotel across the road from the bus station for me for the night. And just waved and and that was it. And I stayed there that night. And then I got up the next day and had basically two days to get back to the airport, ninety Ks. And I and I ran ran back and slept in a hammock in the forest through the night. And basically I was dehydrated, had no food, had no water, no nothing and. The compassion shown by these people on the islands was amazing. They'd just been through this horrendous um episode in their lives of this typhoon coming through, but here's

• 1:24:27Speaker 01

  this Westerner looking, you know, worse for wear, just dragging himself along the road. And they're calling me over and giving me like coconuts to drink. And I found a few coconuts on the side of the road that had been discarded from um drivers driving past. And so I got them and cracked them open and called them roadkill coconuts and like scooping out the flesh and eating that. And the people were just amazing. And I got to uh about ten kilometers from the airport the next day after sleeping in the hammock and it poured down with rain during the night, which was pretty mental. And I um got picked up by this guy, like in his brand new MX uh X five Beamer and chucked me in the car and took me to a youth hostel who spoke a bit of English and they got me back to the airport.

• 1:25:11Rich Roll?

  Wow.

• 1:25:11Speaker 01

  That was my little Chinese adventure.

• 1:25:14Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's the ultimate, right? To just be plopped into a completely foreign land and have a credit card that doesn't work and you're completely beholden to the kindness of strangers to survive.

• 1:25:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was, that was it. And I did survive because of, because of them. And that was, that was amazing. And the compassion shown by, you know, these people, the human race really. And I took away from that, you know, a lot of things that we spoke about earlier with Nepal, but from my China experience, I had a renewed faith in the human race that, you know, we are here for one another, regardless of what we see on our everyday life. Like you, you go out on the street here and you drive and someone cuts you off or you cut someone off and they go mental on the horn and whatever. But coming back from China, I had this, this renewed faith that, you know, we are all here together and we are here to help each other out regardless of our race, our language we speak, or, you

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  know, our socioeconomic status. And that's what I got out of going to China.

• 1:26:12Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. It's a interesting.

• 1:26:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. So then, yeah, and then that happened. And then the next year was like, right, the ultimate triathlon's coming in eighteen months. I should do a triathlon.

• 1:26:24Rich Roll?

  Right. I mean, had you been cycling after your sort of surf trip or? So you're getting used to riding a bike.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I trained like a triathlete. I'd just never done one. Uh I signed up to a squad and straight away got thrown into like lane eight, the slow, the slow lane. And, you know, I I was just fighting the water and going backwards, you know, before going forwards. But I slowly worked on my technique because I didn't have any sort of technique. And and I got slightly quicker and whatever. And I was just enjoying it because I was changing up the training. Uh rather than just doing running, although I love, love running, but it was just cool, just doing something different, something that I'd I'd never done before. And and also just learning a lot, uh as different sports and different ways of training. Because, you know, I'm I was still training people in the gym and I was training other un- runners and things like that.

• 1:27:15Speaker 01

  So I was learning about different training techniques, doing loads of research, talking to people who were cyclists, who were Ironman triathletes. So, yeah, that was, it was a lot of fun. So I was still doing lots of research, uh as I always, always, always do. And evolving with my food as well, my nutrition. But, uh, and then I signed up to the double brutal extreme triathlon, which.

• 1:27:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah. So what is that? I mean, what is the mental tick that compels you to just go straight to the double? Ironman as opposed to, I'll do a half, I'll do a, I'll do an Olympic, I'll do a half, I'll do an Ironman and then I'll go to the double. Well, what do you know, how do you defend that? I'm interested for my own personal.

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  Well, I was going out doing hundred and twenty mile cycles on the weekends, hundred and thirty miles, like at. Like the long, a long ride would be hundred and twenty, hundred and thirty miles.

• 1:28:11Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:28:12Speaker 01

  Running, you know, I was doing ultra marathons. I'd I'd go out just for fun and run a marathon on a Sunday type of thing.

• 1:28:18Rich Roll?

  Right. So it doesn't seem like that big of a crazy thing.

• 1:28:22Speaker 01

  So to, for me to do an Ironman, and I was just starting, you know, doing swimming on a regular basis. So I said, oh, are you gonna do an Ironman next? And I was like, I have no aspirations to go to Kona. So I don't need to go and try and train fast and go really fast. I thought that doesn't interest me. Uh, although I'd love to go out there when it's on, but to actually try and compete and to qualify, didn't interest me. I thought, well, I could go out tomorrow and do the equivalent of an Ironman in distance and, you know, in whatever time I do it. Do I need to do a race? I was like, I'm not really flustered about doing a race. I was like, well, why? I need a, I need a big challenge that'll challenge me both physically, but also mentally. And I thought, if I go out there and do a twelve hour Ironman, that's twelve hours mentally.

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  I can't really see that challenging me because I'm not gonna be on the rev, I'm not gonna be trying to go a hundred mile an hour. That's a different story. But for me, just to get around in twelve, thirteen hours, or, you know, whatever it would take me. It's not gonna challenge me in any way. So I was like, right, I need a big swim bike run challenge. So I started Googling world's toughest triathlons.

• 1:29:26Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:29:27Speaker 01

  And like, I didn't make this up. The actual name of the race is the Double Brutal Extreme Triathlon and signed up to that.

• 1:29:33Rich Roll?

  Cause the name sounded so alluring.

• 1:29:35Speaker 01

  That's cool. Like, I to- I told my mom and she just said, stop. Okay, so what's the race called? And I'm like, that's what it's called. She goes, Luke, stop lying to me. You're making up things now. What's it called? And I said, mom, look, Google this, I'll show you. But, uh, so yeah, it's in North Wales. In Mount, uh, the Snow- Snowdonia area, which is the highest mountain in Wales. It's very hilly. Uh, we did, uh, fifteen thousand feet climbing on the bike.

• 1:30:02Rich Roll?

  Wow, that's a lot.

• 1:30:03Speaker 01

  And nine and a half thousand feet on the run. So it was a lake swim. About, uh, I think it was like fifty five degrees. And you basically do just everything back to back. So you do the four point eight miles in the, in the lake. You get off that, you jump on the bike and it was, I think it was like a thirty mile loop. And you do that eight times, or whatever it was. And you get off the bike and you gotta run to the top of Mount Snowdon, which is like three, just over three thousand feet. So off the bike, you're going straight up. Uh, and, uh, come back down and then you do a lap, eight laps of this, uh, of this lake course.

• 1:30:39Rich Roll?

  There's no, it's not like Ultraman where it's stages, like you just go straight through.

• 1:30:42Speaker 01

  Straight through. Took me thirty five hours and I didn't sleep. I had a literally five minute break. That was it. In about three thirty, four o'clock in the morning, I was probably about twenty five, thirty miles from the end, I think. And my support crew car that was driving behind me, we were just one of my mates. Uh, his nickname's Dad, cause he's an old man, so to speak. But, um, he was driving along and behind me and I was sort of falling asleep on the bike, cause it was in the middle of the night. And veering off to the side of the road and I'd come to and he'd pulled up beside me and he's like, uh, hey Luke, you think we should have a rest? And I'm like, no, no, no, keep going, keep going. And then sort of two seconds later, I closed my eyes and veered off the side of the road and like, yeah, yeah, yeah, rest.

• 1:31:24Speaker 01

  So we pulled over and literally I said, set your alarm on your watch for five minutes. We turned the heaters up, we turned, we had loads of food and we turned the, the music on to, uh, I think you had U2 or something playing. So I said, right, five minutes. And I was there, I was like eating and had this hot air blowing in my face. And then his timer went off and I was like, right, let's go, let's finish this. And that's the only rest I had. It was thirty five hours nonstop.

• 1:31:47Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. And when you finished that, what was the emotional takeaway?

• 1:31:54Speaker 01

  It was a team effort. I had three, three people come up with me. So, uh, Graham, uh, Tash and, and Hannah, who are all good friends of mine, and they all have their own sort of endurance sports background, this and that, whatever. And, um, it was, it was a fun time. It sounds brutal, but because they were always there and that was quite boring that it was eight laps. But it was, I saw them pretty much most of the time. So it was, it was fun for me. You know, I'd come in and see them and I'd have, carry on and have a laugh and have a joke and, and then we head out again. But I finished that. And I went, right, okay, let's get this Morocco to Monaco thing going. Cause

• 1:32:36Speaker 01

  although it's completely different, but that was my first triathlon and a swim and a bike and a run. And okay, I'm, I'm ready for this now. Let's, let's get this going.

• 1:32:45Rich Roll?

  Let's get it going. So what is the, what is the planning like? I mean, you've got to get like visas and all kinds of, you know, permissions, right? To cross international boundaries and how does that work?

• 1:32:58Speaker 01

  Well, for Morocco, um, I'm all right to go from Morocco to Spain because it's all part of the, the package that they do with the, with the boat crew. And I don't need, um, I don't need to have a visa or anything like that for Morocco. And then through Spain and and France, I don't need a visa because I've also got a Polish passport. So I can, I've got free reign through Europe.

• 1:33:23Rich Roll?

  Ah, you're Polish.

• 1:33:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:25Rich Roll?

  Tversky.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  That's the last name.

• 1:33:27Rich Roll?

  That explains a lot.

• 1:33:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does.

• 1:33:29Rich Roll?

  They make them hard there.

• 1:33:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I get my craziness from my dad. He's pretty, he's pretty tough and crazy and that's the Polish side.

• 1:33:36Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that Eastern European blood.

• 1:33:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:39Rich Roll?

  They love the endurance sports.

• 1:33:41Speaker 01

  And they just love punishment.

• 1:33:44Rich Roll?

  It's funny, my, you know, my book, Finding Ultra, it hasn't been translated into Spanish or French or, but the first international, like, foreign translations were Slovenia and Poland.

• 1:33:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I remember I saw, when I heard Poland, I laughed my head off. That's fantastic.

• 1:34:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's funny. They're into it, you know?

• 1:34:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:06Rich Roll?

  It's something about, it's something about the culture.

• 1:34:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. As I said, roll the sleeves up, get it done.

• 1:34:11Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:34:12Speaker 01

  This sounds good. But yeah, so visas and stuff, that's, that's fine. That's cool. But yeah, it's, it's all the planning. I've set it in 12 days. It's set in stone now. That's what's happening. And yeah, so now it's just sorting out some funding. I do need some funding for it and I am on the lookout for that.

• 1:34:32Rich Roll?

  How much do you have to raise?

• 1:34:34Speaker 01

  Well, it's just, I think it's been flipped on its head a little bit because we're doing it in a unique way. We're going to film it and stream it live throughout different times of the day, um, which has never been done before in any sort of event. So it's a unique event. It's going to be broadcast throughout the whole world. But then we're going to have anywhere between six and 12 live broadcasts from the road, from the pit crew's car, where I'm going that day and things like that. And that's obviously costing quite a lot of money. But through further research and talking and learning so much, you know, from this adventure, we're, we're finding a way that it's, we're going to do it a little bit cheaper with the same result.

• 1:35:17Speaker 01

  So, um, yeah, we're still, we still need to raise a fair bit of money because, you know, we're traveling all that way. Um, 1300, 100 miles, we're going to have a crew. The crews, basically, I've got my bare minimum crew that I want. But if we raise a bit more, I could maybe get one or two more guys to come in. But we're not doing it anything fancy. It's basically just guys coming along.

• 1:35:39Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:35:39Speaker 01

  I got a filmmaker who contacted me who wanted to come along for the ride and film me throughout this year and throughout the twelve days. So, yeah, we're gonna have a professional filmmaker filming that along the way with all the content that we've been filming.

• 1:35:51Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you got it.

• 1:35:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, doing the whole story. And and also I'm working with a big university in London who, Rahampton University, who had tested me throughout the year, doing swim, bike and run tests every two months to making sure that I'm not overtraining, that I'm not undertraining, giving me some levels so I can work on sort of like basically my lactate threshold.

• 1:36:11Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:36:12Speaker 01

  And then they throw me in and make me do a V A two max on the treadmill and stuff, which which they love because they know I'll just flog myself to death. And the footage is amazing because I'm literally just going flat out. And there is one where I just fall flat and my arms are holding me up on the treadmill. And they look at each other and started laughing while the treadmill is still spinning around. But so there's lots of elements to it. And because it's gonna be streamed through the internet, it's, you know, it's a global audience as well.

• 1:36:38Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right. I think the streaming thing is tricky. Uh, but with Periscope and Meerkat and like these new apps that are coming out, there's ways of doing it, you know, on a consumer level. I mean, certainly not like super pro, but to be able to use your iPhone to streams and broadcast something live. That's. Should be helpful.

• 1:36:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's like a Plan C. I've looked into that and I've tried to get in touch with both the Meerkat and the Periscope people, but I haven't had anything back. But there are a few other platforms that we can broadcast it through, which is a lot cheaper than going to a professional streaming company. And and there are some also some satellite providers and stuff that I'm talking to at the moment, who are quite interested and are gonna help me out with a bit of a deal with not just the satellites, but also the like the bandwidth or whatever you call it for the data.

• 1:37:28Rich Roll?

  And do you have other sponsors that are on board?

• 1:37:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've got I've got one, I've got a couple, actually. One of them's, uh, which you'd be interested in, Casaga Athletic. They're plant-based, sustainable clothing, T-shirt.

• 1:37:40Rich Roll?

  What are they called?

• 1:37:41Speaker 01

  Casaga Athletic.

• 1:37:42Rich Roll?

  Oh, I like that.

• 1:37:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, um, they're pioneers. It's fantastic. This stuff's amazing. It's, uh, they've got this this formula that they make their shirts and it's all sustainable, plant-based. The difference being. You can put it next to like a polyester shirt and you won't know the difference. It performs like a technical running shirt. And their main shirt is basically the greenest T-shirt on the, on the planet. And they've been going for like three years to develop these products. And one of the, the owners I cycled with a lot last year. And so our rides, our long Saturday rides is like business meetings. So I feel part of the company because I helped developing.

• 1:38:22Rich Roll?

  What's the website?

• 1:38:23Speaker 01

  Kusaga, K U S A G A.

• 1:38:27Rich Roll?

  Kusaga.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  Athletic.

• 1:38:30Speaker 01

  So they're not quite into production at the moment, but I've worn some of their kits and their base layers and their cycling jerseys and their running shirts and their, it's, it's pretty phenomenal. And I will, I will have to say one story though. The Graham, one of the owners, his, uh, his wife was at home one day and we went out for a seven hour, hot and sweaty cycle. And he had a normal cycling jersey and he took that off and threw it at his wife and hit her in the face and it was all sweaty and dirty and whatever. And, you know, there was a divorce on the table after that one. But then he had a base layer on some of his Kusaga kit. And he took his base layer off after seven hours of hot, sweaty cycling, threw the base

• 1:39:15Speaker 01

  layer at his wife and she grabbed it and she went, oh, didn't you wear this? It was dry, didn't smell, no odor. And he told me the other day that he's still been wearing that same base layer 12 months later and it's still, still, still good. Um, so what they're trying to do is basically minimize their carbon footprint with making these shirts, uh, cycling jerseys and base layers.

• 1:39:37Rich Roll?

  That's really cool. Yeah, I'm looking at the website. It's, um, it looks really cool. They don't have pictures of the product yet, but they, they tell the whole story of sustainability here, which is interesting. Um, yeah, that's the future, man. I've got a friend out here, uh, my friend Juan. Who has a clothing line called Industry for All Nations.

• 1:39:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:40:00Rich Roll?

  And it's not cycling gear, it's not athletic gear, it's casual wear. But everything's sourced sustainably. They don't use any artificial dyes and they support like these indigenous communities in India and various sort of, you know, third world places throughout the world where they can actually, you know, support villages through what they're doing. And the way that they tell their story through social media and Instagram and videos, et cetera, like that, like the level of transparency is just really cool. And I think that that's where business needs to go.

• 1:40:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:30Rich Roll?

  And it's great that there's athletic gear that can measure up on that level. You know, it's always that thing. It's like you want to buy the right thing. You want to make that good choice.

• 1:40:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:40Rich Roll?

  You know, but when there isn't an option, you know, you just go with what you know.

• 1:40:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I've worn some of the prototypes over the last couple of years and I've worn basically the finished products as well. And they're not quite going to production at the moment, but they're very close. But it's literally, it works just like a normal polyester one, if not better, and no odor and it's a quality kit.

• 1:41:02Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's nice.

• 1:41:03Speaker 01

  So, yeah, so they're on board and I'll be wearing their kit as soon as they are. And we're working on developing my own range as well. So you can have the Luke Tbersky Adventure.

• 1:41:13Rich Roll?

  I like that.

• 1:41:15Speaker 01

  We'll have to get you on board, Rich.

• 1:41:17Rich Roll?

  All right, man, I'm ready. Give me a kit when it's sorted out.

• 1:41:20Speaker 01

  That's for sure.

• 1:41:21Rich Roll?

  I like it. So, all right, so you got to raise some cash.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so you have a thing on your website for that. People can go to, it's not, you have two websites. You have luktbersky.com, but the main site is theultimitrathlon.co, right?

• 1:41:34Speaker 01

  That's for the event, yeah.

• 1:41:36Rich Roll?

  And then you can, there's a video that kind of shows you what the challenge is and what it's all about and all that kind of stuff. And people who are interested can throw a few shuckles your way there, right?

• 1:41:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's a donation page, but if people want to, businesses and companies want to get on board as well, get in touch. And I've got different sponsorship levels. And, you know, you throw me extra cash, I'll give you extra promotion and a few extra other things as well.

• 1:42:00Rich Roll?

  That's the way it works.

• 1:42:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, that is. I've spent many, many hours, weeks, months developing all these plans. I'm ready to use them. So I sit down and chat with some companies and I've got different levels that they can get on board with and what I can provide for them as well.

• 1:42:13Rich Roll?

  Cool.

• 1:42:21Rich Roll?

  Well, I want to talk a little bit about nutrition. That's also a big part of your story and also kind of is interwoven with your story of navigating through injuries. And in addition to all these injuries, you've had a lot of problems with trying to figure out how to eat properly to not just satisfy your training, but actually keep you healthy. Because you've had issues with that, right?

• 1:42:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:44Rich Roll?

  And it sounds like you're a guy who has always been interested in nutrition and cooking and you were sort of the chef in your house as a young person, is that right?

• 1:42:53Speaker 01

  I mean, how... Helped out.

• 1:42:54Rich Roll?

  What is this journey all about for you?

• 1:42:56Speaker 01

  Well, it started with my mom would cook every night unless we had a barbecue outside. And my dad would turn the meat on the barbecue. So, we cooked all the time. Eating out was a treat, massive treat. And takeaway or anything like that would be very rare. So, cooking was huge in our house. And I always wanted to help mom out chopping up vegetables and things like this as a kid. And I don't know, I think the fact that mom spent a lot of time in the kitchen after work preparing meals and I was exposed to that. And for me, that was normal. So, that sort of developed throughout life. And I left home when I was 16 to go and play soccer. And although I lived with a family, because I was still at high school, which I met when

• 1:43:39Speaker 01

  I turned up at the front door, "Hey, I'm moving in." I ate with them most times, but I did cook for myself and I liked experimenting and finding new different flavors. But then at 17 and a half, 18, I was living by myself and I had to cook every night. But I enjoyed that. So, that sort of just evolved over time and I kept experimenting. And I ate a very stereotypical team sports diet. Like you have your pastas and your rices and then a bit of meat portion, some veggies type of thing. And you have your protein shakes after training session and this and that, whatever. And I was always lean meat, it was always brown rice and brown pasta.

• 1:44:20Speaker 01

  And I was always the picky eater and if Luke comes around, "Oh, can you eat any of this? Is this up to your standards?" and this and that. But it was still this stereotypical sort of diet. And that's what I ate throughout playing football and then the marathon de sables as well. I kept eating that and I ate gels and energy bars and this and that for whatever. And basically what happened was just before I went to Nepal...

• 1:44:45Speaker 01

  My, my stomach had an explosion. Just got bloated, I was really lethargic, I was tired. Um, it was, it was out of nowhere. So I stopped, took stock and went, right, what's going on in my life? Well, for once in the relationship, my, my ex-girlfriend and I were in a really good place.

• 1:45:05Rich Roll?

  So it wasn't the emotional.

• 1:45:07Speaker 01

  No, it wasn't emotional this time. And then, yeah, where was I going in life? Yeah, I had a direction, I was going to be an adventurer. I had this trip to Nepal coming up and, uh, work was good. I had some really good clients and this and that. So all the, the outside of the normal boxes, I ticked. And I was like, well, have I been eating different food? No, I've been living in the same place, drinking the same water. This and that, you know, all's good. And I was like, oh, fine, screw it. I'm going to Nepal for a month. What could happen? Can't get any worse. Go out there. So I went out there, that was fine, came back. And yeah, just really struggled, kept this, kept bloating and this and that. So cut out, uh, wheat, gluten, dairy, all that type of stuff.

• 1:45:48Speaker 01

  And made a difference, but then it was still around. So, um, cut out all sugars, fruits and everything like that. So I cut right down on sugar. Um, it was still a bit there, whatever. So I, I brought a few things back in, cut out meat and see how that went. It was still like, some days a bit great, other days I was like, well, that's not, that's not really it. And, um, so I played around and went right down to eating broth.

• 1:46:16Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:46:17Speaker 01

  Went and cut right back down just to, to do that type of, uh, and then slowly add the stuff in. And then over the last, it's been.

• 1:46:24Rich Roll?

  Right, like it's a total reset and then add in one thing at a time. So you can actually

• 1:46:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:28Rich Roll?

  understand which things are doing what.

• 1:46:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, but then I'd add in something for like ten days and that was fine. But then, you know, a month later, I would have this one thing that was fine. And it would flare me up. And I was like, what the hell's going on? So then I went.

• 1:46:45Rich Roll?

  Sounds like an autoimmune thing.

• 1:46:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So I was like, okay, I, I'd need some help. So I went to see all the, um, the top mainstream sort of gut doctors and stuff i- in, in London. And then I went to see some uh, holistic people and I went and see like nutritionists and dieticians to, just to get as many heads and thoughts, you know, and I'm open to everyone. If someone said, oh, we think it's definitely this. And someone said, no, it's definitely not that. Well, I'll meet you halfway and show me why. Um, but I got, I got ideas, but nothing really helped.

• 1:47:19Rich Roll?

  You're just going around the merry go round.

• 1:47:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And, and you know, I went, um, I went vegan for a while, just, just to try. You know, and I don't eat a lot of meat these days, um, but you know, when I feel like a steak, you know, I gotta have a steak, but that's.

• 1:47:36Rich Roll?

  Well, I got this book for you right here, Luke. It's called The Plant Power.

• 1:47:41Speaker 01

  You know, I already have that.

• 1:47:42Rich Roll?

  You do?

• 1:47:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:43Rich Roll?

  I didn't know you already have it.

• 1:47:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:45Rich Roll?

  I didn't give that to you, man.

• 1:47:46Speaker 01

  Oh, cheers, cheers. I bought one for my friend as well for her birthday.

• 1:47:49Rich Roll?

  He did.

• 1:47:50Speaker 01

  She, she loves it. She, she, she raced in Mallorca last weekend and she took it over there to read in between training.

• 1:47:55Rich Roll?

  That's cool.

• 1:47:55Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, so, um, but yeah, to be honest, I,

• 1:48:01Speaker 01

  I, there's probably four or five days, probably three or four days a week where I would eat like as a vegan, not because I tried to, it's just that I love veggies, you know, and, and legumes are still a bit iffy on, on my stomach. I can have them in small amounts. Um, but yeah, so it's still a bit of a, a minefield. I feel like there's less mines out there, but I'm slowly getting through, through that and.

• 1:48:26Rich Roll?

  Well, you got rid of the gels, right?

• 1:48:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. So after, yeah. So after Nepal, I came back and I saw these guys going out for runs, eating chickpeas and eating like little bits of bananas and seeds and nuts. And I was like, well, if they can go out and run for five, six hours every day on that, why can't I? So then I went to this whole real food, like that's, that's my thing. I eat only real food. And started experimenting with, you know, like they did, I'd cook up some chickpeas and put in a little bit of cling film and take that out for runs and take some almonds. And then I got into like, well, hang on, this, this whole baking thing with ground almonds and ground nuts and different types of gluten free flour, like chestnut flour and sesame seed flour. And I threw myself in the kitchen and went mental and started baking like a madman.

• 1:49:15Speaker 01

  All these energy bars and things like that. And they worked. But the biggest thing for me is not that they give me sustainable energy and, and this, that, whatever. It's my recovery was phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal. Like the biggest thing for me, the biggest thing was, I did thirty five hours of a double Ironman distance triathlon, forty eight hours after I finished.

• 1:49:40Speaker 01

  I was running up and downstairs feeling great.

• 1:49:42Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:49:42Speaker 01

  So soft tissue wise, I felt recovered. Obviously on a cellular level, I was, you know, crippled. And I knew this, I had still rested, but I saw my physio, I saw my massage therapist and to get a bit of treatment after the big race. And they went, there's nothing wrong with you, you're fine. You know, you feel great. And that's because during the thirty five hours, I ate nothing but real food that you could buy yourself and make it.

• 1:50:08Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:50:08Speaker 01

  You know, different recipes that I had, so.

• 1:50:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so the, so the takeaway, like your food philosophy is real food, basically.

• 1:50:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, nothing processed. If you don't know the name of it, don't eat it. You know, if you don't know where it comes from. So my everyday food is loads of veggies. I don't eat loads of fruit these days.

• 1:50:31Speaker 01

  I'll probably have maybe five, five portions of fruit, five, six portions of fruit a week. And that's okay for me, doesn't give my stomach too much of a, a rock in the boat. But loads of, loads of veggies, loads of veggies. A few portions of meat, not, not loads, and if it is, uh, meat, it's, it's like, you know, nice lean cuts with, uh, you know, from the local baker, uh, baker, local butcher that's, uh, you know, has a, has a farm down the road. I know exactly where it's coming from.

• 1:51:01Rich Roll?

  And what do you take with you, like on the bike or the long runs?

• 1:51:05Speaker 01

  Um, well, I've trained over the last few years to try and make my body as fat adaptive as I can. So all my friends, like, you don't eat stuff. I go out for a four hour, even hard cycle, I won't take anything.

• 1:51:17Rich Roll?

  You've done that.

• 1:51:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I know what works and I know how hard I can push for a certain period of time. And I used myself as an experiment. And, you know, I've gone out and tried to thrush myself on the bike for like seven or eight hours and see how I felt during the bike ride. And, you know, I was like, okay, yeah, I felt okay, anything after that, I know I'll die, but. Um, or my, my power would die off. So I take things like seeds and nuts and I make my own bars with ground, uh, ground seeds and nuts. I use chestnut flour as well because it's a nice, if I am doing some higher intensity stuff, uh, chestnut flour's got a nice mix of, um, carbohydrates and protein.

• 1:51:55Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:51:55Speaker 01

  But then for recovery stuff, I'll use sesame seed flour, which is not a whole lot of carbohydrates, a little bit, just enough.

• 1:52:01Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:52:01Speaker 01

  But some protein in there as well. Um, and yeah, occasionally I'll take the banana or, uh, I'll take, you know, make my own chia seed gels and things like this. Um, but yeah, just I've experimented, made my own little bars and balls and everything that everyone does these days, but I just don't use a whole lot of, uh, fruits in them. I use some like, um, occasionally I do, but, um, but yeah, that's what I feel with when I go out.

• 1:52:26Rich Roll?

  Interesting. Yeah, I find that the more fat adapted you become, the easier it is to train without calories.

• 1:52:35Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:52:35Rich Roll?

  But I think you gotta be careful about that because you can get through that workout, but then it's what are you gonna feel like the next day?

• 1:52:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:42Rich Roll?

  So it's like you gotta, you, even if you feel like you don't need to eat and you're doing your aerobic zone, whatever, I find that my training will be more consistently productive if I don't overdo it on the calorie deprivation with training.

• 1:52:57Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:52:57Rich Roll?

  And it's easy to get into it, like you wanna get lean, right?

• 1:53:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:00Rich Roll?

  And so you gotta like check yourself with that.

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  No, I, I totally agree. And that's, you know, and that's what I tell people that if you wanna go out and, and ride six hours hard with no fuel, just to, you know, try and push yourself into a more fat adaptive state, then no, the next couple of days, you're doing recovery stuff and you're, and you're eating well.

• 1:53:21Rich Roll?

  Right. But if you wanna have a really productive training week.

• 1:53:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:25Rich Roll?

  Where you're on point for every workout, then yeah, that's, that's not gonna work.

• 1:53:29Speaker 01

  No, exactly. And, and I'll pick and choose my workouts where I'll, I'll go out with, with not eating and things like that. And I'll pick my weeks as well. So, okay, well, you know, I had a really massive week this week and, you know, I ate normal, ate before, and during and after and stuff. And this week I'll, I'll do a couple of fasted sessions or I'll do something with minimal calories and stuff like that. And I just sort of, I listen to my body, you know, it's, I'm pretty in tune with it these days. Uh-huh. I'm still learning, still teaching me all the time, uh, and still throws curveballs at me and I think, you know. Just roll with it, you know, but uh um yeah, but you you do gotta pick and choose when you do that, cause it is detrimental to your recovery. And you can't just go out and go, well, every weekend, I'm gonna go for a seven hour bike ride and not eat.

• 1:54:12Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:13Speaker 01

  It's not gonna be helping you at all.

• 1:54:15Rich Roll?

  Right, right.

• 1:54:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:17Rich Roll?

  So where are you taking all this, right? You're you're you've embarked on this adventuresome life, life of a of an adventurer, you're getting ready for this big uh event in October, but you know, where where is it all heading? Like, what does it mean? And and what are you trying to kind of say through these endeavors?

• 1:54:35Speaker 01

  Well, as I said, what did I take out of Nepal is to live life, and that's that's what I wanna do, cause we're here for a short time, so I wanna live it every day. And I wanna inspire others to live their life. But, you know, there's inspiring someone by showing a cool um like photo or something on Instagram, and everyone's like, oh, that's really cool, I'm inspired now, but they don't do anything about it.

• 1:55:00Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:55:01Speaker 01

  I wanna inspire people to act and do something, uh so there there is a difference, and I get that, I get that, you know, I put stuff on my social media things to that, you know, someone posted, and that's cool, I'll repost that. And I know ninety nine point nine percent of the people just go, oh, that's really cool, and then turn around and forget about it.

• 1:55:18Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:55:19Speaker 01

  But yeah, I wanna inspire people to act on uh on that inspiration, to do something, get out of their own comfort zone, and you know, and that comes with all my brand of everything that I do. You know, I started teaching people how to cook, I call it confidence in the kitchen, where I feel everyone can cook, but you a lot of people don't have that confidence. So I would install that by teaching people a few ways of to cook, like, you know, sauteing or roasting or or grilling, which sounds very basic to people who cook all the time, but for those that have no confidence, they're like, well, I can put toast in the toaster and bake beans in the microwave, and that's me cooking. And then, you know, fresh, real food with a few herbs and spices, and you you can have an amazing meal, you know, so I do, I I that's what I do as well.

• 1:56:04Speaker 01

  And it's trying to install that um renewed confidence through inspiration to act on it, to be able to live their life every day, where so many people now sort of, you know, head down, work, work, work, work, work, and all of a sudden, ten years goes by, and you know what that's like, and you think, what happened?

• 1:56:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah, bridging that that gap from inspiration to action, you know, that's the $64,000 question, right?

• 1:56:31Speaker 01

  At least.

• 1:56:31Rich Roll?

  Because inspiration's kind of easy. It's kind of easy to throw a platitude out, you know, and have somebody say, "That's inspiring," you know, but what is it? What is the value of that, really?

• 1:56:43Speaker 01

  No, that, really, there's none unless someone says, "That's going to make me go and sign up to that art class that I've always wanted to do, and I've always put it off," or "That's going to make me go and dust off the trainers and go for a run," or...

• 1:56:58Rich Roll?

  That has to come, that's internally driven, though.

• 1:57:00Speaker 01

  Oh, totally.

• 1:57:02Rich Roll?

  You know, within side that person, and that person has to be at the, you know, at the right time in their life where they're ready to make that kind of change.

• 1:57:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I totally agree. And, you know, both you and I have been in different situations where there's been opportunities, but it's not been the right time. And then all of a sudden, for whatever reason, that right time's been put in front of us, and you could say we've both taken it. But yeah, so that's, that's part of where I'm trying to go with this. And where's the end goal? I don't know, man. I'm enjoying the ride.

• 1:57:35Rich Roll?

  There is no, there is no end.

• 1:57:37Speaker 01

  What's the point of trying to say, "That's where I want to go," because you might end up going in a different direction, but you're still loving it. So, yeah, you know, I tick along. I do some, some talks now, do some motivational speaking and stuff. And I really want to do something with my, my way of cooking and my food stuff. I've, I've got a million recipes, you know, sitting in a folder, and I do need to do something about them. But yeah, you've, as you know, you can juggle so many balls, but, you know, occasionally you've got to put one or two down to don't overload. So that's where I'm at right now.

• 1:58:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you can do a lot of things, you know, with a relative level of mediocrity or, or some level of aptitude. But if you want to really excel at something, then you have to focus. And right now, you know, you gotta, you gotta get from Morocco to Monaco.

• 1:58:26Speaker 01

  In twelve days.

• 1:58:27Rich Roll?

  The cookbook or whatever else you're working on will still be there.

• 1:58:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:32Rich Roll?

  You know, everything in its own due time.

• 1:58:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that's right. So I'm just putting things in place and, you know, I've got a few recipes and stuff that I throw up on my website so people can see my style and, you know, I always put up photos of stuff if I bake something new and there's always people saying, oh, that's really cool. You know, can I get the recipe? And a lot of the times I'm like, yeah, sure, here. But sometimes I'm like, no, this is a keeper. Sorry, I can't. And you know what it's like.

• 1:58:56Rich Roll?

  In the internet age, you can't sit on those recipes. Everybody wants them for free and immediately.

• 1:59:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I do give out some, but then I always, every, every few weeks I refresh and I give out some recipes. And if you sign up uh to my website and stuff, you get a free cookbook and there's always recipes coming on there. So I do, I do share a lot because, yeah, like, I don't want to, stuff that I've created, I don't want to just keep to myself because I'm excited. You know, I, I like to help people and I like to help people perform better in everyday life. So whether it's learning to cook better or making new things from recipes that I've come about to, you know, like the other week I crewed for a good friend of mine who did the double Ironman with me, who did a run leg.

• 1:59:40Speaker 01

  She did her first hundred mile race and she asked me, I trained her for it as well. So it was, I had a lot invested in it. And she said, can you pace me for the second fifty miles? And I was like, yeah, okay, sure. And for those who maybe aren't up to date with sort of a hundred miles, basically if you pace for the second fifty for, uh, you know, sort of at half, half decent runner, you're basically running through the night.

• 2:00:02Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:00:03Speaker 01

  And that's it. And that's what I did. I, I ran for two hours of daylight on the Saturday night and we ran all through the night together and a couple of hours in the mornings of daylight and that was it. But her finishing. That race, she actually did really well, uh, twenty-two and a half hours for a first hundred mile.

• 2:00:21Rich Roll?

  That's good.

• 2:00:21Speaker 01

  Uh, I was over the moon. I felt more happy, more pleased and more ecstatic for her finishing that race than I did with my double Ironman, cause for me, that was just like, well, I said I was gonna do it and I did it, so what? That's it, that's done. But with Hannah finishing her hundred mile, I was, I was over the moon. My emotions was bubbling out of control. Uh, a couple of, Paul, who was there crewing as well, we were so excited and her family was there and it was a great time. So I, I like to help and, and sort of teach and coach people to help perform their best and, and you know, she, she said to me after, I couldn't have done it without you. And I said, you would have done it. But I was just there to sort of, you know, bounce ideas off to make sure you got there. So

• 2:01:04Speaker 01

  I felt a big part of that, but at the same time, you know, she's a tough chick and she got through it.

• 2:01:08Rich Roll?

  Well, that's a long road from sitting on the couch, isolating and, uh, being depressed and, and lying about what you're doing throughout your day, right?

• 2:01:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:01:19Rich Roll?

  You know, that kind of community and service is the ultimate, uh, salve to depression.

• 2:01:25Speaker 01

  It is, it is. And, you know, as I said, I still have my dark days now, but they're few and far between and, and I know that, you know, when I do have those dark days, I, I look at these, um, uh, times when I've, I've been a part of something and made someone's life better or, or helped them with something or, you know, dragged her through the night when she was trying to fall asleep and didn't wanna run anymore, you know, so that's what gets me through the dark days these times, knowing that I can make a difference in someone else's life if I, if I apply myself to that.

• 2:01:58Rich Roll?

  I think that's a good place to wrap it up.

• 2:02:00Speaker 01

  Sounds good, man.

• 2:02:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah, beautiful, man.

• 2:02:02Speaker 01

  Cheers.

• 2:02:03Rich Roll?

  We did it.

• 2:02:03Speaker 01

  We did, we rocked it.

• 2:02:05Rich Roll?

  Feel all right?

• 2:02:06Speaker 01

  I feel amazing.

• 2:02:07Rich Roll?

  You don't feel depressed?

• 2:02:08Speaker 01

  No, no way, not at all. Espe- especially after going to the, the one and only cafe down the road here before I came.

• 2:02:15Rich Roll?

  Oh, you went Joy Cafe?

• 2:02:16Speaker 01

  I went Joy Cafe.

• 2:02:17Rich Roll?

  How was it?

• 2:02:18Speaker 01

  Uh, I went in, the staff was amazing, by the way.

• 2:02:21Rich Roll?

  Was Joy there?

• 2:02:22Speaker 01

  I have no idea who Joy was.

• 2:02:23Rich Roll?

  Uh, you would know.

• 2:02:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:02:25Rich Roll?

  She's bubbling over.

• 2:02:26Speaker 01

  No, everyone was really nice and friendly, but no.

• 2:02:29Rich Roll?

  And Nick, who's her partner, he's an Ironman triathlete.

• 2:02:32Speaker 01

  Okay. So I went up and I thought, well, I just did this run and I had a bit of a snack afterwards. That was fine. I thought, I've got to go and check out Joy Cafe, you know what it's all about. I thought, I'll just get like a smoothie or something. And I was looking at the board, wasn't sure what it was. And, and the girl behind the counter, she's like, what, what would you like? And I said, oh, I'm not sure. I've just did a run and she's like, I like the rich roll. You should get a rich roll. And I went, you know what?

• 2:02:57Rich Roll?

  You have to. You're coming over for the podcast.

• 2:02:59Speaker 01

  I didn't, I didn't say that, but in my head, I was like, I have to. I said, yes, I'll have a rich roll, please.

• 2:03:06Rich Roll?

  Was it all right?

• 2:03:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was good, man. But I got it without dates.

• 2:03:09Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:09Speaker 01

  Cause dates don't, I love dates, but they don't sit well with me. So the rich roll without dates is a smash hit for me, but I'm sure the rich roll with dates is awesome.

• 2:03:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah, good. Did you eat, did you eat lunch also or just get the smoothie?

• 2:03:22Speaker 01

  No, just get the smoothie. Cause I took, um, I took a massive big salad to have after my run. And I put it in a little cooler box with some water, you know?

• 2:03:30Rich Roll?

  Well, thanks for dropping by over there.

• 2:03:32Speaker 01

  Cheers, man. It was, it was really nice. Something like that in London would go mental. They'd love it. Yeah.

• 2:03:38Rich Roll?

  How is the, uh, healthy eating landscape in London?

• 2:03:42Speaker 01

  Getting better, getting better. It's slowly, it's a small little community in, in the vast of, of the city, but it's getting there. There's, there's, um, a lot more, uh, better places to eat. You know, Whole Foods came over as well. Uh, and there's a lot more, uh, local farmers markets popping up now, which are really cool. You know, so get down and get your fresh veggies that were grown, you know, just down the road, stuff like that. So. People are starting to get it, but it's the same thing as we said earlier. We've been fooled with, you know, we've been told this is healthy, you know, this is healthy. All these sandwich shops and all these cafes. So this is, this is a health food store. You go in and it's like, this is not healthy. This is processed crap.

• 2:04:27Speaker 01

  You know, and it's, it's, that's difficult to see, cause you know, my, my take on food and stuff like that. But there, it is, it is getting better. The whole fish and chips is not as big as it used to be. But yeah, no, there's a couple of cool vegan and vegetarian places popping up out there now. But yeah, no, it's good, man.

• 2:04:47Rich Roll?

  That's good, man. That's exciting. Well, I'm excited for you and the big adventure coming up.

• 2:04:53Speaker 01

  Cheers.

• 2:04:53Rich Roll?

  You'll have to come back and share about the experience when you're on the other side.

• 2:04:58Speaker 01

  I'd love to. I'd love to. And get you some Kasaga stuff as well.

• 2:05:02Rich Roll?

  Oh, yeah, that's cool.

• 2:05:03Speaker 01

  Because you are the Plant Power Man, so you need to have the pioneered 100% plant-based shirts.

• 2:05:11Rich Roll?

  I like it.

• 2:05:11Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 2:05:12Rich Roll?

  All right, so if you're digging on Luke, you're inspired, you want to help him out, give him a high five, and put some wind in his sails, the best place to do that is to go to theultimatriathlon.co, consider a donation. Be mighty welcome, I would imagine.

• 2:05:32Speaker 01

  Totally. But also, if you're a business or a corporation, drop me an email and we can chat about things of what I can do for you as well.

• 2:05:39Rich Roll?

  Yeah, cool.

• 2:05:39Speaker 01

  There's plenty.

• 2:05:40Rich Roll?

  And you're Luke Tyburski on Twitter, right? T Y B U R S K I?

• 2:05:47Speaker 01

  You've got it.

• 2:05:48Rich Roll?

  And you're on Facebook, Instagram, it's all the same, right?

• 2:05:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:52Rich Roll?

  You're an easy guy to find.

• 2:05:52Speaker 01

  There's only one of me, apparently.

• 2:05:54Rich Roll?

  Right. There might be one in Poland. I don't know if his name's Luke, though.

• 2:05:58Speaker 01

  It's probably Luca or something, but I spelt it the way I spell it. I think there's one or two somewhere in the States here, but no, they're not up there with me.

• 2:06:07Rich Roll?

  Cool, man. Well, thanks for doing this.

• 2:06:10Speaker 01

  Cheers, Rich. I appreciate you having me on. And, you know, all the listeners, I listened to your first podcast. I remember that. And as it evolved, which you have evolved quite a lot.

• 2:06:21Rich Roll?

  It's come a long way.

• 2:06:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, it has. And, you know, I've been inspired throughout your whole journey. And when we sort of chatted about coming on and doing this, I was excited because, you know, I've sat at home, I've sat on my bike, and I've listened to all the podcasts and the amazing guests you have on. But the listeners is what makes it. So it's cool. Thanks.

• 2:06:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah, thank you, man. This is great. Awesome. All right, man. Keep the rubber side down.

• 2:06:45Speaker 01

  Always.

• 2:06:46Rich Roll?

  All right. Peace. Plants.

• 2:06:54Rich Roll?

  All right, you guys, how'd you like that? I think we did it. I think it was pretty good. Let me know what you thought of the episode in the comments section on the episode page at richroll.com. Keep sending your questions for future Q and A podcasts to [email protected]. And for all your plant power needs, also visit richroll.com. We've got nutrition products, we have signed copies of Finding Ultra and The Plant Power Way. I will inscribe those books with whatever you would like me to say in them, within reason. We have 100% organic cotton garments, we have Julie's meditation program, we have Plant Power Tech Tees, we have Plant Power and Peace in Plants sticker packs and temporary tattoos. Who doesn't love that stuff? And our most recent offering in the store, and I'm really excited about this, are limited

• 2:07:36Rich Roll?

  edition art prints from my friend and esteemed artist and food advocate, Andrew Pasquilla. They are a pop art take on the USDA's politicization and devaluation of the true organic movement. They're really gorgeous pieces, they're signed and numbered on heavy cloth paper, and I think this is a really great and inexpensive way to get your hands on some really fine art that I pretty much assure you is going to appreciate and value as Andrew's art career continues to skyrocket. So, basically, everything you need to take your health, your life, to the next level. We've got your bases covered at richroll.com. If you want more, if you're into online courses, go to mindbodygreen.com. I've got two there, The Ultimate Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, which is a great kind

• 2:08:21Rich Roll?

  of counterpiece to The Plant Power Way, our cookbook. And I also have The Art of Living with Purpose, which is all about goal-setting and doing the internal work and kind of getting your life on a proper trajectory. Really proud of those courses. They're very affordable in a world of online courses that cost like thousands of dollars. This one's super cheap. Both are super cheap, and I stand by them. I think they have a lot of great content in them, so you can check those out. Thanks for supporting the show. Thanks to you for telling a friend, as always. Thank you for sharing it on social media. Yes, I love that, especially Instagram. I'm loving all those pictures. And thank you for using the Amazon banner at richroll.com for all of your Amazon purchases. All right, you guys, I will see you in a few days. Make it great, everybody. Peace.

• 2:09:07Rich Roll?

  Plants.