Pod Insights Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard Grant Achatz (award-winning chef) About this episode Grant Achatz (Alinea, Next, The Aviary) is an award-winning chef, restaurateur, and culinary innovator. Grant joins Armchair Expert to discuss growing up in small-town Michigan working in his family's diner, rebuilding a GTO with his father, and discovering the emotional power of food. Grant and Dax talk about training under Charlie Trotter and Thomas Keller, reinventing fine dining at Alinea, and battling stage IV tongue cancer at the height of his career. Grant explains why great meals are really about storytelling, how he sees AI as a beneficial tool in his work, and why pursuing excellence requires constant evolution.
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Transcript 20,899 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Dax Shepard? Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, expert son, expert. Uh, I'm Dax Shepard.
0:04 Speaker 01 Who are you?
0:05 Dax Shepard? Lily Padman.
0:06 Speaker 01 That's me.
0:06 Dax Shepard? Today, we have a legendary chef on, Grant Aketz. Uh, he is the restaurateur who owns Alenia and has won numerous accolades and is one of Wabi Wab's biggest crushes.
0:20 Speaker 01 It's true, and he's, Alenia, for people who don't know, is basically the United States' best restaurant.
0:27 Dax Shepard? It had been many years in a row. Yeah, it's an incredible place. Uh, and he's an incredible chef with an incredible story.
0:34 Speaker 01 Oh, man, yeah.
0:34 Dax Shepard? Um, yeah, what, what could be the worst thing that could happen to a chef? And that's what happened. Please enjoy Grant Aketz. We get support from Quince.
0:46 Speaker 01 I have to say, I am so ready for fall. I want sweaters. I've been craving a true crisp morning where I actually need a jacket. I can't wait.
0:55 Dax Shepard? I'm fully there. The second it dips below 70, I'm like, this is my season. Give me the layers, give me the boots, give me a reason to wear something other than a t-shirt. And honestly, that's why I love Quince, because fall is when your wardrobe actually has to show up. And everything at Quince is 50 to 80% less than similar brands. We're talking 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at $60.
1:17 Speaker 01 $60, $60 for cashmere that you'd expect from a luxury brand without the luxury price tag. It's amazing, gets me every time. It really shouldn't be real, but it is because they go straight to the factories, they skip the middlemen, and they just hand you the savings. The stuff isn't trendy, it's the kind of pieces you grab over and over because they work every time.
1:35 Dax Shepard? The 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters for me are it. When I look at Steve McQueen, this man owned a couple of sweaters he wore all the time, and he looks iconic.
1:44 Speaker 01 It's a uniform.
1:45 Dax Shepard? Mm-hmm.
1:46 Speaker 01 And Quince isn't just about the clothes. They have hotel-quality bedding, cookware, bath essentials, thoughtfully-designed furniture. You can really go there and outfit your entire apartment or house. So if you're in need of any kind of fall refresh at home, too, same quality, same attention to detail for every corner of your life.
2:03 Dax Shepard? Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. We get support from AG1. Fall is that time when your body and mind are getting ready for the winter. You're settling in, bracing for the cold. Your body's already running a deficit from the shorter days and broken sleep patterns. You don't want a nutrient deficit stacked on top of that too.
2:40 Speaker 01 That's where your AG1 routine earns its spot. It's not fixing your sleep or your alarm time. It's giving your body what it needs so the dark mornings don't tank you before you even start. One scoop cold water every morning before anything else.
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3:06 Speaker 01 That's the part people miss. It's not a one day fix. It's what happens when you stay consistent.
3:10 Dax Shepard? It's an easy, everyday thing. I've added it to my morning routine and I'm going to tell you, I actually love the taste of it. It's like Pavlovian. I drink it and I know I'm going to get that little vitamin buzz.
3:20 Speaker 01 Well, that's also the thing. When you do it first thing in the morning, you already feel kind of self-esteem because you're like, I already did something good for myself.
3:28 Dax Shepard? Yes. Go to drinkag1.com/dax and for a limited time, get a free immunity bundle, including a bottle of omega three fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3 K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/dax. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Armchair Expert sent you.
4:09 Speaker 02 I don't know if you know this, are you so sad?
4:11 Dax Shepard? That you know, the gold in the Boston matches the trunks almost identical.
4:15 Speaker 01 Well, I mean, I thought it.
4:18 Dax Shepard? Do you clock that?
4:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, of course.
4:20 Dax Shepard? God, you really know what you're doing. How much thought did you put into this?
4:24 Speaker 03 My outfit?
4:25 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
4:25 Speaker 03 I put none.
4:26 Dax Shepard? Yeah, okay, okay.
4:28 Speaker 01 Well, it's great.
4:30 Dax Shepard? You've surrendered that to someone else.
4:32 Speaker 03 I know my Schwamm suit, yeah.
4:34 Dax Shepard? Rob, do you know where the sprays are in my house? If I don't have a nicotine spray, I can't continue.
4:38 Speaker 01 You can't function.
4:39 Speaker 03 I'm just saying.
4:40 Dax Shepard? Have you ever been a nicotine addict?
4:41 Speaker 03 Never.
4:42 Dax Shepard? Oh, my God, that seems hard to imagine. We're both Michiganders.
4:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
4:46 Dax Shepard? Almost the same age.
4:47 Speaker 03 Yeah.
4:48 Dax Shepard? I think you're maybe eight months older than me.
4:50 Speaker 03 Is that right?
4:51 Dax Shepard? Thank God, yeah.
4:52 Speaker 03 You were in Milford.
4:53 Dax Shepard? Milford, Highland, Dearborn, Detroit.
4:56 Speaker 03 Okay.
4:57 Dax Shepard? You're St. Clair?
4:58 Speaker 03 Yeah.
4:58 Dax Shepard? Not St. Clair Shores?
4:59 Speaker 03 Not. Everybody gets that wrong.
5:01 Dax Shepard? Yes, big difference.
5:03 Speaker 03 Huge difference.
5:04 Dax Shepard? Yes. You would think, Monica, right? St. Clair, St. Clair Shores. What could be the difference?
5:08 Speaker 01 Yes, this is like Macon, Macon County that happened to you, ding ding ding.
5:13 Dax Shepard? Georgia. Yeah, so walk me through St. Clair. I'm pretty sure it's similar to Milford, conceptually.
5:19 Speaker 03 Smaller.
5:20 Dax Shepard? Three thousand?
5:21 Speaker 03 Yeah, probably now more than that, but back then, no fast food restaurant. That's how small they were. Every cultural town.
5:30 Dax Shepard? How many stoplights?
5:32 Speaker 03 Two.
5:33 Dax Shepard? And did you go to, like, did they have St. Clair High School?
5:35 Speaker 03 Yeah, just one high school.
5:37 Dax Shepard? How many kids were in there, do you know?
5:39 Speaker 03 In my graduating class, probably not more than a hundred.
5:43 Dax Shepard? Oh, really?
5:44 Speaker 03 It was really small.
5:45 Dax Shepard? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
5:46 Speaker 03 Yeah.
5:47 Dax Shepard? And you drove a fucking GTO in high school? Come on, what, a seventy?
5:51 Speaker 03 A seventy, yeah.
5:53 Dax Shepard? Tell me about that car.
5:54 Speaker 03 When I was fourteen, my father said, what kind of car are you on when you turn sixteen? And I just said, a fast one, right? As you would.
6:03 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
6:04 Speaker 03 And I love muscle cars. In my head, I was like, oh, he's gonna buy me a muscle car, right?
6:10 Dax Shepard? Right, right.
6:11 Speaker 03 It didn't turn out like that, for the better. So he went out and found a GTO that was in boxes. It was off the frame. I mean, it was a mess, right?
6:22 Dax Shepard? Someone had started a restoration and failed.
6:25 Speaker 03 Fourteen hundred dollars is what we paid for it.
6:27 Dax Shepard? Oh, no.
6:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:28 Speaker 03 And for two years, we took it all apart and built it all back up.
6:33 Dax Shepard? How did your dad have that kind of mechanical prowess?
6:36 Speaker 03 I mean, I think a lot of it was just, again, that small-town Michigan manliness, right?
6:43 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:43 Dax Shepard? A man had to know how to turn a wrench.
6:45 Speaker 03 Right. And then we bought the manual. Pontiac, Porsche, all of those were cars. They had manuals on, literally, how to put them together.
6:54 Dax Shepard? Right, right, right.
6:55 Speaker 03 So here we are, like, reading through that and buying the tools.
7:00 Dax Shepard? And I can't believe it ran, to be honest with you.
7:02 Speaker 03 Honestly, me neither.
7:05 Dax Shepard? And were you the king of your high school with that sweet ride? Because in Michigan, if you drove a rad car, it really meant something.
7:11 Speaker 03 That was a symbol.
7:13 Dax Shepard? Yes. I had a Mustang GT that I bought similarly for eighteen hundred dollars. And, yeah, I think that elevated me a few notches.
7:19 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think so. I wasn't very cool.
7:22 Dax Shepard? No, I saw a picture of you. You've got your tight-rolled jeans. You've got a fucking gorgeous schlong, short, front, long and back.
7:29 Speaker 03 So that, I should have kept that because that's in.
7:32 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It would be down to your ankles by now.
7:35 Speaker 01 It's called a schlong?
7:37 Dax Shepard? That's one of the names for it, short in front, long in back.
7:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
7:42 Dax Shepard? Pick your poison with that.
7:44 Speaker 01 Exactly.
7:46 Dax Shepard? What kind of dude were you in high school?
7:48 Speaker 03 Super shy. Did not apply myself, unless it was with my hands or some sort of art. I thought I was gonna be an architect. Never drank, never smoked. Tight, tight group of five guys. That was it.
8:03 Dax Shepard? So mom and dad owned more than one yacht restaurant?
8:07 Speaker 03 Only one at a time.
8:08 Dax Shepard? One at a time?
8:09 Speaker 03 Yeah. But it was a family diner, breakfast on the dinner seven days a week.
8:14 Dax Shepard? And, like, how many tables are inside this place?
8:16 Speaker 03 It probably held a hundred and fifty people.
8:19 Dax Shepard? Because I was doing the math when I heard you say the town was three thousand at that time. And I was like, man, even if ten percent of the community ate at your restaurant. I'm not trying to do the finances of it.
8:29 Speaker 03 Right. It was the place that... Everybody gathered.
8:34 Speaker 01 Fun.
8:34 Speaker 03 Every morning they would come in and sit at the same table. They didn't even have to order.
8:39 Speaker 01 Oh, that's the best.
8:40 Speaker 03 And that was a really formative time.
8:43 Dax Shepard? What is funny, though, when you're in a small town, like assuredly your peers thought you guys were loaded.
8:49 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
8:49 Dax Shepard? Because when you're a kid and someone's parent owns a business in town, you just think they're rich.
8:53 Speaker 03 A hundred percent.
8:53 Dax Shepard? You have no idea what the finances are.
8:55 Speaker 03 I was an only child. They spoiled me.
8:58 Dax Shepard? Oh, wow.
8:59 Speaker 03 Yeah, so yeah.
8:59 Speaker 01 Well, yeah, the car.
9:00 Speaker 03 Right, right.
9:02 Dax Shepard? Did you have dirt bikes?
9:03 Speaker 03 Four-wheelers.
9:04 Dax Shepard? Four-wheelers, you son of a bitch.
9:06 Speaker 03 Yeah. I grew up on dirt bikes and I made the transition when I was like 12.
9:12 Dax Shepard? I'm so grateful I had that childhood. Are you?
9:15 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah. I wouldn't be close to who I am today without that.
9:19 Dax Shepard? Yeah, even thinking about what I've learned about how seasonal your preparation is and how you think about oak leaves burning in particular. Your obsession with figuring out how to get that smell into food, I wonder, is that us? Does everyone have that nostalgia for burning leaves?
9:34 Speaker 03 And it was interesting. When we were working on those concepts, I would be like, hey, where did you grow up? And if they were in Texas, there's no leaves, right? Or it wasn't prevalent. Some people live in California where it's mostly evergreen. So how do you find that touchstone that is able to really make people go back in time?
9:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
9:56 Speaker 03 That's a very powerful thing.
9:58 Dax Shepard? Yeah, it really, really is.
9:59 Speaker 03 Yeah.
10:00 Dax Shepard? Almost the most.
10:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
10:02 Dax Shepard? Had you not gone away to, again, I love the acronyms because CIA, Culinary Institute of America. But wasn't there ICE too, International Cookie?
10:12 Speaker 01 Yeah, yes.
10:13 Speaker 03 Yeah, all bad.
10:15 Speaker 01 It's all bad.
10:16 Speaker 03 Yeah.
10:17 Speaker 01 They need a rebrand big time.
10:19 Dax Shepard? It's so funny.
10:20 Speaker 01 It is funny.
10:21 Dax Shepard? Had you not gone to CIA, did you have any other? No, it was.
10:26 Speaker 03 I had no backup.
10:27 Dax Shepard? Okay, no backup, no other interests?
10:29 Speaker 03 Academically, I was terrible in high school. So it wasn't like I was going to a university like all my friends.
10:36 Dax Shepard? Right.
10:37 Speaker 03 I was like, this is it. But I really loved it.
10:41 Dax Shepard? Do you think you had any? Advantage having minimally cooked at the diner.
10:45 Speaker 03 For sure.
10:46 Dax Shepard? What kind of advantages you arrive with, like some mechanical ability or?
10:50 Speaker 03 Yeah, there was nice shows. There was honestly a lot of the grit.
10:55 Dax Shepard? Oh, uh huh.
10:56 Speaker 03 A lot of the stress, a lot of that environment, it's intense and you have to figure it out.
11:02 Dax Shepard? Your domain is where I probably am the most ignorant. So forgive me when I make a bunch of dumb observations, but. I'd also imagine you have a relationship with heat. Like I cook enough that I know over time, I look at that flame. I know what that flame is gonna give me. I know what kind of time I want something on there. If I want to be golden, I would imagine to you also have a pretty good relationship with heat.
11:27 Speaker 03 Yeah, so a lot of the modernist technique is sous vide.
11:33 Dax Shepard? Uh huh. And so for people who don't know sous vide.
11:35 Speaker 03 You're putting food in a bag essentially and placing that in a water bath. But you have to have the water at the right temperature. So I'm pretty good at just putting my finger in there and knowing what temperature it is.
11:49 Dax Shepard? Uh huh, yeah, you can do that.
11:51 Speaker 03 Yeah, my wife always uses me, but I can take salt and know how many grams I have in my hand.
11:58 Dax Shepard? Ah, yeah.
11:59 Speaker 03 It's muscle memory.
12:00 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah. Just doing something over and over again for forty years or whatever. What at CIA was the most challenging? What was the deficit you had that you were like, oh, boy, I'm having a hard time with this?
12:11 Speaker 03 Probably back then it was my false sense of ability.
12:16 Dax Shepard? A little arrogance, maybe? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:18 Speaker 03 You know, because a lot of the people that start there have never cooked before.
12:23 Speaker 01 Oh, wow.
12:23 Speaker 03 I was young. I was only nineteen years old. I was like, man, I'm better than all these people. That held me back a little bit. I learned that lesson fast, so.
12:33 Speaker 01 It kind of takes that personality a little bit, though.
12:36 Speaker 03 I agree. There's a certain.
12:39 Speaker 01 Confidence.
12:41 Speaker 03 And you put yourself out there too. The food I'm doing now.
12:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:45 Speaker 03 You know, you're a bit vulnerable, yeah.
12:48 Dax Shepard? Yeah, you're trying to get that perfect ratio of arrogance that can foolishly make you try something maybe you shouldn't try.
12:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:56 Dax Shepard? Yeah, it's a real balancing act.
12:58 Speaker 03 For me, I was so young and most of the students were over twenty one. So they would go party on the weekends.
13:07 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
13:07 Speaker 03 And I was just. Read Facebook.
13:10 Dax Shepard? Oh, okay, uh huh.
13:11 Speaker 03 And I think that was a very fortunate thing for me, too. I was like focused. So that was the foundation.
13:18 Dax Shepard? I would have been like, oh, I'm in New York. I have this now degree. I would go down to New York City. That seems like the natural trajectory. Why did you choose to go to Chicago and not go to New York?
13:29 Speaker 03 So originally, I went back to a hotel in Grand Rapids, the Amway. And the chef that was running the hotel, he became a mentor. And upon graduation, he was like, come back for a couple of months and we'll find a spot for you in Europe. And so I went to see over there and learn and blah, blah. So I went back to Grand Rapids and it never worked out. So then I just went on a big search. I wanted to work for the best chef and the best restaurant. And that was it. That's all that mattered.
14:00 Dax Shepard? Which at the time was Charlie Trotter?
14:02 Speaker 03 Yeah.
14:03 Dax Shepard? Okay, so talk about the kind of legacy of Charlie Trotter in Chicago. This would have been, what, ninety?
14:10 Speaker 03 Ninety.
14:11 Dax Shepard? I have it written down. I can tell. He had a twenty-five year run of kind of being.
14:16 Speaker 03 The big dog.
14:17 Dax Shepard? The big dog.
14:17 Speaker 03 Yeah.
14:18 Dax Shepard? Yeah, so how'd you get that job?
14:20 Speaker 03 I wrote him a letter with my hands
14:24 Speaker 03 several times until finally he called me.
14:27 Dax Shepard? Oh, no kidding.
14:28 Speaker 03 And I went down there for a tryout. I was still in Grand Rapids. I remember I wanted to eat at the restaurant before I tried out because I wanted to see what type of ingredients they had. I wanted to lose the plate layer. And again, I was money, money. Wow. I had this giant hilariously over baggy like JCPenney suit on.
14:54 Speaker 03 I worked there for three days and it was a tryout. And they offered me the job. So I moved down.
15:01 Dax Shepard? Okay, so I wanted to talk about the culture of Charlie Trotter. And then we'll compare it to Keller. Because I think this is kind of fascinating, both work. Let's talk about the massive difference. So what was the vibe at Charlie Trotter?
15:13 Speaker 03 Fudders was intense in a way that wasn't in the service of what we were doing.
15:22 Dax Shepard? Uh huh, uh huh.
15:23 Speaker 03 And I felt like it was getting in the way a bit. Charlie was a master manipulator.
15:30 Speaker 01 Oh.
15:31 Speaker 03 He slid right inside of your head and just pulled strings. It was unbelievable.
15:36 Speaker 01 Yeah, what for? Like, power?
15:38 Speaker 03 Maybe.
15:39 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:39 Dax Shepard? If you're generous, I think it's like, look, for whatever reason, that was his technique. And for whatever reason, the results were the results. So, once you have the results you want, you're not likely to go re-engineer your approach. And probably he worked in kitchens where he picked up these little things along the way.
15:55 Speaker 03 I mean, we do what we see.
15:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
15:58 Speaker 03 And until you can break that cycle, I never saw him, which, you know, hey, again, he was successful.
16:07 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah.
16:08 Speaker 03 Right? So, the formula worked for him. It was odd to me.
16:12 Dax Shepard? Yeah, you said he was like a conductor, not a musician.
16:14 Speaker 03 Right. A conductor from afar. But the food was amazing and the talent was amazing. And a lot of ways, it showed me what I didn't want to do, how I didn't want to manage. But at the same time, I was so young and that restaurant was so good. It was hard to not go, this is the way to do it.
16:37 Dax Shepard? Of course, yeah, yeah. The proof is in the pudding.
16:38 Speaker 01 But that's how the cycle happens, I think.
16:41 Speaker 03 Right, exactly.
16:41 Dax Shepard? How had he designed that incredible menu? Or did he have help? Or if he wasn't really cooking, how did he come up with that aspect of it?
16:49 Speaker 03 He was super intelligent. He went out and ate and then assimilated all, you know, brought all that in and then sort of moved the puzzle pieces around a bit.
17:00 Dax Shepard? So he like was a curator of other great dishes he had had?
17:04 Speaker 03 Labors and, you know, techniques. And then he would have us execute it.
17:09 Dax Shepard? Explain how he'd yell at you. I found this to be really fascinating.
17:12 Speaker 03 He would not yell at the person. He would yell at either the person directly next to you or the person that was supposed to be supervising you. I remember the first time it happened. It is a double hit.
17:29 Speaker 03 Because he's yelling. He's making it very clear that you did something wrong.
17:35 Speaker 01 Right.
17:36 Speaker 03 So now you're at fault. But he's dressing down the person next to you. So now you feel bad for them.
17:43 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
17:44 Speaker 03 So you feel horrible.
17:45 Dax Shepard? It's like torturing a loved one. Psychological.
17:47 Speaker 01 Whoa, that is wild.
17:49 Dax Shepard? I wonder why the time you had some extra basil on your cutting board.
17:53 Speaker 03 He was a very sharp person that knew how to draw a metaphor and analogy and just pin it right in you. At one point, I was shipping out in some basil and I had more than I needed. Not by a lot, but by, you know, a little bit. And I wiped it off my cutting board into the trash can. And he happened to see it. He walked over and he was very soft spoken, very polite. He was like, chef, did I ever have your wallet with you? And I'm like, as a matter of fact, I do, which is very unusual to have it in the kitchen.
18:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:29 Speaker 03 So I get it out and he goes, have you money in there? And I'm like, yes. He was pulling it out for me. So I pulled it out. I had a five and a one.
18:39 Speaker 01 Oh, no.
18:40 Speaker 03 And he picked it up, he looked at it, threw it in the trash.
18:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:45 Speaker 03 He goes, you're stealing from me. So I just stole from you.
18:48 Dax Shepard? Yeah, that's what you just did.
18:49 Speaker 03 And again, all of this hard knocks at the time was like tough.
18:55 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:56 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
18:56 Speaker 03 But less than worth.
18:57 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
18:58 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:58 Dax Shepard? And by the way, I always think, in my experience, the very first movie I did happened to be the hardest movie I ever did in my life. It was like in another country, we were in cold water half the time. It was so much. And I was like, oh, wow, this is movies, man. It's on. It's been way easier ever since. And I'm like, oh, that's the way to do it.
19:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, but that's like having an abusive stepdad and then you have a nice stepdad and it's like, yay. You're like, I am so happy.
19:22 Dax Shepard? It's Barton, yeah.
19:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly. It's like you shouldn't have had an abusive stepdad.
19:26 Speaker 03 Right. The funny part of that is I didn't touch that much. But he walked away, it stayed right there.
19:31 Speaker 01 Wow.
19:32 Speaker 03 Cause I'm like, if I respect him there, will it excuse me?
19:36 Dax Shepard? Yeah, it feels like a test.
19:37 Speaker 03 Yeah.
19:37 Dax Shepard? Like the second part of his. Psychological.
19:40 Speaker 03 Right.
19:40 Speaker 01 It is.
19:41 Dax Shepard? Do you pick it up out of the trash?
19:43 Speaker 01 Oh, my god. I thought he was gonna cut it up like the base.
19:46 Speaker 03 That really did. That really did.
19:49 Dax Shepard? People chop it really fast and you're like, oh shit.
19:52 Dax Shepard? So you're there for a year.
19:53 Speaker 03 Not even.
19:54 Dax Shepard? Not even a year.
19:55 Speaker 03 Yeah, it was short.
19:56 Dax Shepard? And how did you get yourself over to French Laundry? And tell me, because I wasn't aware of that at all in 95. How big was French Laundry already?
20:06 Speaker 03 Not that big. So Chef Hella was switched over in 94. So it only opened a couple of years, under him. After I left Trotters, I went to Europe. And back then, France was where it was at. It moved down to Spain and other places, but then it was France. So I'm like, okay, well, it was a holy land of food. And very disappointed. Every meal I had was not good.
20:34 Speaker 01 Oh.
20:35 Speaker 03 So now I'm really lost.
20:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
20:38 Speaker 03 If Trotters was the pinnacle, and that didn't work, I'm gonna go try to find it elsewhere. And that didn't work. I came home and I was a bit lost. And I went to the end, researched a bunch of restaurants, and found the French Laundry. And was like, okay, it's in Napa. Worst-case scenario, maybe I'll make mine. There's a lot of restaurants there. And wrote him a letter, similarly. He called me up and he was like, you're either batshit crazy or you're gonna be really good. And I landed there.
21:12 Dax Shepard? By the way, you can be both.
21:15 Speaker 03 Can be both. Landed there and watched in the kitchen the first day, and there he was mopping the floor.
21:20 Speaker 01 Oh, wow.
21:21 Speaker 03 It felt so familiar because of my mother and father's restaurant. My dad would mop the floor.
21:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
21:29 Dax Shepard? Yeah, you see the trash, it's full, you take it out.
21:30 Speaker 03 Yeah.
21:31 Speaker 01 Doesn't matter who you are in the pecking order.
21:33 Speaker 03 Yeah, and it felt.
21:36 Speaker 03 Natural, everything about it.
21:38 Dax Shepard? We just blew by one point that I'm having a hard time grasping or relating to, which is at 20 years old, the fact that you went to France and you tried the food and you're like, it's not very good. I wouldn't fucking know. Like, I liked White Castle and Lafayette Twenty Island.
21:56 Speaker 01 But you weren't tasting food all the time.
21:59 Dax Shepard? Well, that's my question is like, yeah, what order is it? Do you think it's just because you are getting so meticulous about all the ingredients and understanding what it's creating that that in turn changes your own palate? It's just interesting at that age to be able to even discern the difference between great and good food, I think.
22:18 Speaker 03 Part of it is here, but a lot of it is here.
22:22 Dax Shepard? Okay, in your heart.
22:23 Speaker 03 Yeah, and the way a meal makes you feel. Even at that age, you knew when something was special. And that was another thing, like, that fiche, stuffy, French restaurant? I didn't mind that. So all of that was filed away. And 20 years after that became my ethos.
22:48 Dax Shepard? The structure of a kitchen lends itself to abuse in a lot of ways, right? My stereotypical notion of some of these kitchens that had gone awry, it's like this main chef is like a god.
23:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:01 Dax Shepard? And all the formalities to reinforce how powerful they are, how subservient you are.
23:07 Speaker 03 I mean, that whole system was based on the military hierarchy system.
23:12 Dax Shepard? Oh, okay, that's where it comes from?
23:14 Speaker 03 Yeah, historically, that never works out well.
23:17 Dax Shepard? Yeah, okay, yeah.
23:18 Speaker 03 There is that toxicity that ran rampant in the years past. Now, the whole industry is coming through. A lot of reform, a lot of, a lot of change.
23:29 Dax Shepard? Well, internet came along and your behavior is no longer that anonymous. The sanctity of that little kitchen is permeable.
23:37 Speaker 01 That's the good part. You can't get away with this kind of thing.
23:40 Speaker 03 I certainly have acted out in my earlier days, especially. It's hard to find that separation of. Pursue the perfection and the standard and being a human.
23:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's hard.
23:56 Speaker 03 It sounds bizarre.
23:57 Dax Shepard? No, no.
23:57 Speaker 01 No.
23:58 Dax Shepard? I also think it's the pressure. Someone sat down, the thing has to be not just perfect, it has to be perfect in thirteen minutes or whatever. The window of time is.
24:06 Speaker 03 Right.
24:06 Dax Shepard? Yeah, it's a very stressful job.
24:08 Speaker 03 When I opened the venue, I was thirty. That's pretty young.
24:12 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:13 Speaker 03 And it's pretty young to be in charge of a hundred people. Even more so if you're the owner or a co-owner. So there's a lot of that entrepreneurial stuff that I never thought about. It was all about the food. And my business partner handled most of it, but it was still there. So sometimes the pressure sort of popped off.
24:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, that'll happen.
24:34 Speaker 03 But, you know, never physically, just a little bit yelling here and there.
24:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
24:39 Dax Shepard? Well, the fact that you named one of your boys Keller lets me know how you feel about him. But you arrived with one skill set and then you left with a completely different one. What did you pick up there and what were they doing that was novel? Just and tell people, that's a very traditional French cuisine, yeah?
24:55 Speaker 03 The French culinary food I would say would be modern French. What does that mean? Threw away a lot of the rules of French cooking and utilizing a little bit of the American humor in food for the first time. Like, I remember the very first time I ate there, they put the Oysters and Pearls down in front of me and I started laughing.
25:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:18 Speaker 03 When they gave the description and I was eating with my father, it was right before I was about to start, and he goes, why are you laughing? You know, we're in this fine dining restaurant, right? And I go, Oysters and Pearls, man? That's hilarious.
25:33 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
25:34 Speaker 03 And it's delicious.
25:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
25:37 Speaker 03 And that was the first time that I was like, oh, this would be fun, this would be emotional, this would.
25:42 Speaker 01 Personality.
25:44 Speaker 03 And so that really resonated with me. But Thomas's integrity, his willingness to not compromise, it was unprecedented. The fact that he was there, the first one in, the last one out, I was there at the right time to find that role model that really set the tone for my whole life. I give him a lot of credit for my ability to. Push through cancer. Sure, I learned so much to be a chef, but a lot of life lessons.
26:19 Dax Shepard? Yeah, like maybe the chef part wasn't the most important.
26:22 Speaker 03 Probably not.
26:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
26:23 Dax Shepard? But did he have an overarching theory about how he cooked that you began to understand? And what was that? Like, what was his north star?
26:34 Speaker 03 If you're really into food, if you study it, it's your passion, you can look at a chef's food and understand the architecture of it and the way that certain chefs season the food. They push with acid, they're liberal assault, they're harnessing of texture. So you're able to understand the architecture and their aesthetic, the ingredients that they're always have in their back pocket. And a lot of that with him was this emotional aspect of seasoning the food. So the oysters and pearls, the fornet that looks like an ice cream
27:18 Speaker 03 foam, profitero and doughnuts. Like there's all of this sort of other stuff. And so if somebody read me a description of a dish, I would probably be able to tell you who created it.
27:31 Speaker 01 Wow.
27:32 Dax Shepard? Oh, no kidding.
27:33 Speaker 03 And visually, for sure.
27:34 Dax Shepard? They have an aesthetic.
27:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
27:36 Dax Shepard? And they have a way that they communicate.
27:38 Speaker 01 It's like writing.
27:39 Speaker 03 There is a lot of storytelling.
27:40 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:41 Dax Shepard? Was there anything about the service there that you also clocked? You're like, oh, this thing works really well.
27:47 Speaker 03 They were very approachable. They were the opposite of France. You know, it felt like you were in somebody's home, having a dinner party. It felt very comfortable and warm.
27:59 Dax Shepard? This is the only one of these restaurants I've actually eaten at.
28:01 Speaker 03 Okay.
28:02 Dax Shepard? Probably 15 years ago. My wife and I were about to become vegan on January 1st. We were gonna try vegan. And it was like right before Christmas. And I'm like, maybe we should stop at that restaurant on our drive and let it rip before we go vegan. The reservation we got was like 9:30 at night. Yeah, we went there and we ate till midnight.
28:22 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:23 Dax Shepard? And there were so many special things that happened. Our one experience there, there was this man eating next to us. And he looked sweet, so we started chatting with him. And he told us that he and his wife had always come there. And that she had died like 10 years before from cancer. And that every year on their anniversary, he comes and has this meal.
28:44 Speaker 03 That's sweet.
28:45 Dax Shepard? Yeah, I was like, oh, man, this is really so special. And there's just so many things that were, and I'm uncouth. So a lot of this is new to me, like even I got the truffle option. And the man comes out with this mahogany box.
28:58 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:59 Dax Shepard? In white gloves. And I said to Kristen, oh, I think he's gonna murder someone for it. I'm waiting to see a pistol get pulled out of this box, right? Then they educate you on truffles. And I'm like, how much is that one worth? Oh, that's like a $2,000. Wow, they're that much. Yeah, and I'm like, who, where do you buy it? It's like a guy comes door to door. So it was a life event. Whatever the food was, it was phenomenal. I love things I hate, like oysters and pearls. I don't like any of those things. Yeah, I was just eating things all the time. I'm like, no, I know I don't like this. This place immediately built this trust where I was trying things I don't like. And everything was fantastic. It's on par with going to Disneyland, like you should do it in your life.
29:32 Speaker 03 Yes.
29:33 Dax Shepard? It was like a real life experience.
29:34 Speaker 03 Right.
29:37 Dax Shepard? Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking what the warning light means before pulling out of your driveway. You absolutely convince yourself it was probably just a sensor thing. Right up until you were standing on the side of the road, waiting for a tow. Yeah, checking first is the right move. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. And for fast, reliable help when you need it, add an Allstate roadside plan today. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary. Insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Insurance provided by Allstate North American Insurance Company, Northbrook, Illinois.
30:22 Dax Shepard? Roadside assistance plans provided by Allstate Motor Club, Incorporated and Allstate affiliate. This episode is presented by YouTube Premium. YouTube was already great, but Premium supercharges it. If you like YouTube, you'll love Premium. Try YouTube Premium for two months free at youtube.com/premium. Trial eligibility varies. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. Now let's get into today's episode. This episode is supported by Helix.
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33:07 Speaker 03 And then when you took that a step further, as with most professions or arts, any protege always wants to surpass the mentor.
33:19 Dax Shepard? Yeah, of course. To impress them. You want to hear like, "You did it, man."
33:21 Speaker 03 Right.
33:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, pat on the back.
33:23 Speaker 03 So when I was at the French Laundry, Thomas knew that I was not going to work there forever. And the style of food that I wanted to do was not of his. And so at some point, he was like, "Hey, there's this restaurant in Spain called El Buoy. I feel like it's right near Real House." So he arranged a stage there. And after I saw what was happening there, I was like, "I have to go do my own thing."
33:52 Dax Shepard? You'd remember this place because Jose Andres also went there. That's like what woke up his mind as well. It's kind of north of Barcelona, right on the coast. It's not like in a populated area, right? It's just kind of in the middle of nowhere. So yeah, when you left French Laundry, you were the sous chef, which I didn't even know what this meant. You were the second in charge under Thomas. So when you go there, and I know you hate this word, but other people know it and I need you to explain it to everyone, but...
34:16 Speaker 03 Molecular gastronomy.
34:18 Dax Shepard? Molecular gastronomy. So I know you don't like it, but what is the theory behind it?
34:23 Speaker 03 So at some point in the late 90s, it became popular to utilize effluent from other disciplines. The medical industry was a big one. Centrifuges and rotary evaporators.
34:38 Dax Shepard? Yeah, how's a rotary evaporator work? I hear you talk about this a lot.
34:41 Speaker 03 So you have a liquid or a puree that you pull under vacuum. So now you're able to boil that liquid at a very low temperature.
34:52 Dax Shepard? Okay.
34:53 Speaker 03 So you're not having all of the aromas blow off and stuff like that.
34:58 Dax Shepard? That makes so much sense.
34:59 Speaker 03 So it boils, it condensates, and then what drips is the essence of whatever you had.
35:06 Dax Shepard? So you've like extracted the essence without destroying it with heat?
35:10 Speaker 03 Right.
35:10 Speaker 01 Whoa.
35:11 Dax Shepard? That's so fascinating, right? Because this is applying what we know about water boiling at different temperatures, at different ATMs, right? Like at elevation, it boils at 209 or whatever the hell it is.
35:23 Speaker 03 Right.
35:23 Dax Shepard? So if there's not one ATM, then it could boil at low heat. That's genius.
35:27 Speaker 03 I remember my first time being in Aspen, trying to boil eggs. And I'm doing it in front of my business partner, whom I had only known like a month.
35:37 Dax Shepard? Okay.
35:37 Speaker 03 His whole family was there. And he's like, Chef, why don't you make us some breakfast? And I'm like, no problem. And it was a big problem.
35:45 Speaker 01 Oh, no. Oh, no.
35:48 Speaker 03 So embarrassing. Can't even hug, boiling it.
35:52 Speaker 01 That's funny.
35:53 Dax Shepard? Yeah, so there was that. So at that restaurant, I guess the other thing I learned researching you is that what it really also broke open for you is that, oh, the sky's the limit. That we're not locked into French. We're not locked in like this journey of what food could be. We're not nearly at the end of it.
36:10 Speaker 03 No. In fact, the opposite. It was like, if you didn't explore this, you would be doing the industry as a service. Because I felt like, for the first time, there was full permission to express yourself or push outside of the box.
36:29 Dax Shepard? Invent stuff.
36:30 Speaker 03 Yeah. And so then it was game on. Once I came home from there, shortly after I left, the French Laundry trio of Ron, Echec and Evanston.
36:42 Dax Shepard? Oh, this was Trio.
36:43 Speaker 03 Yeah, no budget. We were paying the chefs $20,000 a year.
36:49 Dax Shepard? Geez.
36:50 Speaker 01 Wow.
36:50 Speaker 03 This was 2001.
36:52 Speaker 01 Wow.
36:53 Dax Shepard? Did they get tipped out by the house? Is there any other? That's it?
36:56 Speaker 03 That was it.
36:57 Dax Shepard? Fuck that.
36:58 Speaker 03 I know, it was bad.
36:59 Dax Shepard? Oh.
36:59 Speaker 03 There was five or six of us in there. We were the Rugrats. You know, we had nothing. But that really pushed creativity.
37:07 Dax Shepard? Yeah, because you got credited, rightly so, for really elevating Trio and putting it in a standing it wasn't in. This was interesting to me. Of course, I know the Michelin star thing, which is already ironic because it's. It's a tire company. But I didn't realize mobile stars were also a thing. I don't know if they still are, are they?
37:26 Speaker 03 They're a thing for hotels.
37:27 Dax Shepard? For hotels?
37:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
37:29 Dax Shepard? So mobile gas station, Monica?
37:30 Speaker 01 Oh, my God. Why do we crave some sort of star?
37:33 Speaker 03 It is unbelievable.
37:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
37:35 Dax Shepard? Yeah, so you got like five mobile stars, some amount of mobile stars.
37:38 Speaker 03 Yeah, lots of mobile stars.
37:41 Dax Shepard? Couldn't get the Chevron star or the Shell star.
37:43 Speaker 03 Right, no Shell's.
37:44 Speaker 01 What's the highest amount of stars for that?
37:46 Speaker 03 Five.
37:47 Speaker 01 Okay.
37:48 Speaker 03 So, yeah, we were moving. And then nine eleven happened three months after I was there. So we're doing all this flashy food, taking big swings. And it was working, but then the whole country just pulled way back. And I remember, I was just a chef, I had no ownership in this at all. And I went to the owner, I'm like, look, I understand. If you want meatloaf and mashed potatoes, and that's what we'll do. This is your business. And I'll never forget, he looked me in the eye and he goes, no. I believe in your vision, this is why I hired you. Instead of comfort, we're gonna put people's mind on another planet.
38:31 Speaker 03 So they don't have to think about anything that's happening.
38:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, escape.
38:35 Speaker 03 It was a dream.
38:36 Dax Shepard? You opened a Linea in two thousand and five.
38:40 Speaker 03 Yep.
38:41 Dax Shepard? It's pretty instantly a hit.
38:43 Speaker 03 Yeah. So the New York Times came in on night one.
38:47 Dax Shepard? Oh, gosh.
38:48 Speaker 03 And first of all, at that time, the New York Times didn't leave Manhattan or the boroughs. So it was a massive deal. And it was night one, which is not fair.
39:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
39:02 Speaker 03 But like they say, I don't know, any press is good press.
39:06 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah.
39:07 Speaker 03 So after that, it was just straight up. The momentum was unbelievable. I was proven in the Chicago market. So that helped. And my pedigree, French laundry really helped. But when we first opened, Step and More Theaters right across the street. And me and my business partner were like, well, we have to have a pre-theater menu. Because what if we don't have any people? And we eliminated that right away. Everybody came in, we had three menu options, everybody wanted the biggest one. And so we were off to the races.
39:41 Dax Shepard? Okay, so some of the things that are, maybe they were unique or not, but they're defining characteristics. So the building has no signage.
39:48 Speaker 03 Yep.
39:48 Dax Shepard? You walk in, there's no lobby, there's no bar. What informed these decisions? Were they random? Or did you have an overarching theory on why that was?
39:57 Speaker 01 No bar, like there's no alcohol served there?
39:59 Speaker 03 There's no spirits. So mine and beer.
40:02 Speaker 01 Got it.
40:03 Speaker 03 I wanted it to be a temple of food.
40:06 Dax Shepard? No distractions.
40:07 Speaker 03 And none of the other stuff. So it was all about purity of the experience with food and my spirits were not something that went well with food at that time, at least. And I just wanted it to be a gastronomic palace. So everything else was noise. Get it out of here. And it works.
40:31 Dax Shepard? Yeah, so for people who haven't seen any of these dishes, yeah, you're using liquid nitrogen, you're making mousse crispy. Like you're doing wild, crazy stuff. It's all prefix, you have people sit down, that's it.
40:43 Speaker 03 Nobody chooses.
40:45 Dax Shepard? So you knew what you wanted to do with the menu, obviously, that would be very intuitive for you. What were you thinking about what you wanted the other elements to be? Like the service aspect? Did you have a novel idea about that? Or did you have environment? What did you want for that stuff?
41:00 Speaker 03 The entryway was very special. It was a very long hallway with a false perspective and a hidden door that was triggered by a sensor. So it was a little bit like a funhouse.
41:12 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
41:13 Speaker 03 And the reason for that was there was no Uber then. So like you had a yellow cab or you had to drive yourself from the suburbs or something. And I wanted to eliminate all of that before you sat down.
41:28 Dax Shepard? Like you've entered a magical place, kind of.
41:30 Speaker 03 Yeah. And you're disoriented, you forgot about your babysitter and your sick kid at home and you're ours now.
41:38 Dax Shepard? Uh huh.
41:39 Speaker 03 And the overall aesthetic of the restaurant was very minimalist. I would say that we were one of the first fine dining restaurants to not use a tablecloth. We were trying to challenge everything. At one point, I asked the architect if there was a way for us to not have tables.
41:58 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
41:59 Speaker 03 That is how much we were like.
42:00 Dax Shepard? Willing to.
42:01 Speaker 03 Every aspect of what a restaurant was.
42:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:05 Speaker 03 We identified it and challenged it. We have tables.
42:09 Dax Shepard? You've just given me an idea of having a restaurant that's lazy boys and then dinner tray. Uh, like TV dinner trays.
42:15 Speaker 03 That's all I eat every night.
42:16 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
42:17 Speaker 03 This is me at home.
42:19 Dax Shepard? How do you handle service? Is that something you micromanage or do you bring in someone that you believe in their approach?
42:26 Speaker 03 I'm super hands on.
42:28 Dax Shepard? Okay.
42:28 Speaker 03 Even now, if I'm in Chicago, I'm in one of my restaurants five days a week for sure. A lot of that, I probably shouldn't do anymore.
42:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:38 Speaker 03 I should be spending my time on other stuff, but I love it. And when the cats away, the mice play. It's just a fact.
42:45 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
42:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
42:46 Speaker 03 And so I like to be there to make sure everything's moving.
42:50 Dax Shepard? Had you accumulated grievances? Cause I imagine if I opened a restaurant, the first thing would be like, I would X out all the things that annoy me about a restaurant. Is that kind of what you were doing as well?
43:00 Speaker 03 Yes, a bit for the table. I hate it when you would put your hand on the edge of the table to stand up and the whole table bobbles. So I'm like, why do they have table bobbles? Well, they're hiding a bad table.
43:12 Speaker 01 Ah.
43:13 Speaker 03 Let's have a nice table. So there's a lot of that.
43:15 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
43:16 Speaker 01 Very meticulous.
43:17 Dax Shepard? Or nothing will ruin your meal more than when it's just uneven. I'll get under there with fucking sugar packets. I'm always manipulating it.
43:25 Speaker 01 Are you impossible to go to a restaurant with?
43:27 Speaker 03 No, the opposite. I mean, now I have a whole different set of challenges because of what I have going on up here. But no, I'm pretty sure.
43:36 Speaker 01 My best friend works in service and has a whole business. He has a whole business on service and it is nearly impossible to go to a restaurant with him. And I've had to tell him like, you gotta, you gotta turn it off. Like, I can't do this anymore.
43:51 Dax Shepard? I kinda get it though. Like when I'm watching a movie and they take a shortcut or they fucking lied about the logic, I'm like, ah, fuck you. You know, like it irks me just cause I know the math.
44:00 Speaker 03 Right.
44:00 Speaker 01 I know. You gotta keep it to yourself.
44:03 Dax Shepard? So. By oh seven, you've gotten your own mobile five star there. They're starting to rank in like the best restaurant in America, the best restaurant in the world. That's all taking off. I do notice you have a marriage that ends in oh six.
44:20 Speaker 03 Yep.
44:20 Dax Shepard? Is it possible to start a restaurant of that caliber and be spending the time nurturing all the other relationships?
44:28 Speaker 03 No, I mean, let's be honest.
44:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:30 Speaker 03 Right. When we opened, I would get there at nine AM and leave at four in the morning.
44:35 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:36 Speaker 03 I mean, it was insane.
44:37 Dax Shepard? Yeah, good luck.
44:37 Speaker 03 Jordan Khan, who has Vesper team here, he was on the opening team and Dave Baron, who has Celine in Santa Monica, was there too. And that team first up, who you had on.
44:50 Speaker 01 Yes.
44:50 Speaker 03 We were burning hours.
44:53 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:53 Speaker 03 It didn't matter.
44:54 Dax Shepard? You loved it.
44:55 Speaker 03 You know, it was like we had a mission.
44:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
44:58 Speaker 03 And then when you realize that you're accomplishing that mission, then you were harder. You know, so now we're in there all the time. At that point, we were open five days a week, but it didn't matter. We were there on Monday, Tuesday. It was infectious.
45:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:14 Dax Shepard? Well, the work becomes your identity. Nothing else is happening in your life, so it's your singular identity. And you're crushing, you're getting all the accolades, people love it. So it's like you finally have an identity, which is the hottest shit in the world.
45:25 Speaker 03 Yeah.
45:26 Dax Shepard? It's intoxicating.
45:27 Speaker 03 Very much so.
45:28 Dax Shepard? So in oh seven, you get diagnosed with stage four tongue cancer.
45:33 Speaker 03 Mm hmm.
45:34 Dax Shepard? And I want to know, prior to the diagnosis, were you experiencing anything that was cluing you in that this diagnosis was coming? That you were ignoring?
45:43 Speaker 03 I didn't know what it was. I definitely knew something was wrong. But I was so committed.
45:49 Speaker 01 Yeah.
45:50 Speaker 03 That I didn't even mind who was the doctor. I was like, no, I have to work today.
45:54 Dax Shepard? But was it fatigue you were feeling?
45:56 Speaker 03 No, it almost felt like you bit your tongue.
45:58 Dax Shepard? Oh, uh huh.
45:59 Speaker 03 And it would be like sore.
46:01 Dax Shepard? Tender and.
46:02 Speaker 03 Yeah, you know, hot coffee. I had that for probably three or four years.
46:06 Speaker 01 Years.
46:07 Speaker 03 Yeah. And I was with a dentist and they'd be like, ah, you just had your second hit, you opened your business.
46:14 Speaker 01 Right, stress.
46:16 Speaker 03 Yeah. So they missed it seven or eight times.
46:19 Speaker 01 Oh, boy.
46:20 Dax Shepard? And at the time you were diagnosed, almost three quarters of your tongue had this tumor in it?
46:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, it was bad. I literally couldn't talk, couldn't eat.
46:29 Dax Shepard? Fuck. And the first suggestive treatment was what?
46:34 Speaker 03 They wanted to remove the whole tongue and then both sides of my neck. It had metastasized here.
46:40 Dax Shepard? It was in your lymph nodes.
46:41 Speaker 03 Yeah, so they wanted to do like major dissection and I mean, bad, bad surgeries.
46:49 Dax Shepard? Yeah, you wouldn't have.
46:51 Speaker 03 Nothing. The whole thing I couldn't even process. Of course, the chef that can't taste, right?
46:56 Speaker 01 Exactly. That's a sick joke.
46:58 Speaker 03 But also the business owner that now I have to figure out how to communicate with everyone. What am I gonna do?
47:03 Dax Shepard? Your staff's gonna learn sign language.
47:04 Speaker 03 People laughed because they thought I was gonna die, you know? And yeah, that was a bizarre time.
47:12 Dax Shepard? So you did six months of radiation like every single day?
47:15 Speaker 03 Yeah.
47:16 Dax Shepard? How quickly did it start working?
47:19 Speaker 03 We went to five major hospitals. They all said the same thing. And I'm like, now what? Maybe I should just die. And I had my sons and you know, I was like, no, we're gonna fight this. And it just so happened that University of Chicago in my backyard was like, hey, we have this new thing. It's a trial, but we feel confident. And I'm like, where do I sign?
47:46 Speaker 01 Yeah.
47:46 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah.
47:48 Speaker 03 So surgery came up first. That really didn't bother me. I lost all my hair and got pimply and all that, but it didn't affect my taste and it didn't affect my energy. About three months in, they started radiation and that was a different story. That is intense.
48:08 Dax Shepard? They're microwaving your tongue.
48:09 Speaker 03 Yeah, well, from my collarbone to my nose. And so at one point, the skin on the inside of your throat and your tongue was shed.
48:21 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
48:22 Speaker 03 By a snake. No swallowing, no taste, no nothing.
48:26 Speaker 01 Oh my god.
48:27 Speaker 03 But it was worse.
48:28 Dax Shepard? That sounds torturous. You had three months of that feeling?
48:31 Speaker 03 Yeah, and then afterwards it hangs on.
48:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
48:35 Dax Shepard? I thought this was interesting. I didn't know how this works. It makes total sense, but I heard you explain like your job as the chef is to educate the people under you on basically your palate, right? So like the underlings are going chef taste this and you're going great, but add a little bit of this. Like they're learning how to know your.
48:55 Speaker 01 To be you.
48:55 Speaker 03 A hundred percent.
48:56 Dax Shepard? So luckily you had enough people that had fully understood in LA, we go like they know how to write for you, right? Like you know your voice. And so you were able to rely on them to taste. But were you panicked at all? I mean, you have to be a control freak. So that's a lot to turn over.
49:11 Speaker 03 Yeah, I wasn't panicked. My experience with the whole thing was very bizarre. I never fully thought that I was gonna die. And my comfort, my family was the restaurant.
49:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
49:27 Speaker 03 So I was going to work every day. I thought that I should communicate with the top three chefs. And be like, hey, I want this acidic like a pickle. And I want it sweet like X, like very clean ice cream. And we would build it that way.
49:50 Dax Shepard? Yeah, this probably pushed your communication skills forward in a way that maybe otherwise you wouldn't have been forced to develop.
49:57 Speaker 03 Yeah.
49:57 Speaker 01 And let you relinquish some control. That's a hard thing to do.
50:02 Speaker 03 I mean.
50:02 Speaker 01 You have to be forced sometimes.
50:03 Speaker 03 At that point, it was all about me. And after that, I was like, okay. Yeah, I have to have other people. Yeah, I can't do it by myself.
50:12 Dax Shepard? Yeah, almost forced your hand. Sometimes you look back on these trials and there are gifts in disguise.
50:17 Speaker 03 They all are.
50:18 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah.
50:18 Speaker 03 For sure.
50:19 Dax Shepard? Yeah, you cannot think that at thirty two.
50:22 Speaker 03 I felt pretty invincible at that age.
50:24 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
50:25 Speaker 03 And then when that diagnosis hit, I was like, what the hell is this?
50:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
50:29 Dax Shepard? I just mean the notion when you're in it that you're gonna go, oh, I better look back on this and be grateful for this is like almost an impossible perspective to have.
50:37 Speaker 03 In that moment.
50:38 Dax Shepard? In the moment.
50:39 Speaker 03 But now for sure, maybe a better shot.
50:41 Speaker 01 Yeah.
50:41 Dax Shepard? Life would just be really easy, though, if you really could embrace that.
50:44 Speaker 01 I know, but that's why.
50:45 Dax Shepard? All the shit's hitting the fan somehow.
50:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, wait till I'm grateful.
50:48 Dax Shepard? Yeah. I can't wait to reflect on this, man. Oh, that was this great moment, or I had to learn and grow. So you guys got three Michelin stars between 2011 to 2024. So you have real longevity in this, which is impressive. When you decide to close and revamp the place in 16 and readdress the menu, kind of start all over.
51:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
51:11 Dax Shepard? What prompts that? Is that scary? That seems like a big decision.
51:16 Speaker 03 It was. You know, at that point, we were 10 years old. I said that ethos of the restaurant was evolution. And that meant not only the food, but the container. If we were renovating the restaurant, we had to keep everybody employed. There's 100 people.
51:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:33 Speaker 03 Because we wanted them all back, obviously.
51:35 Dax Shepard? You don't want to lose them.
51:36 Speaker 03 So we had to find a revenue stream and we did a pop-up in Madrid. I was there while all of that renovation was happening. So before we left, I knew what we were about to do. I helped design it and signed off on everything. But I was away. And this was my baby.
51:58 Dax Shepard? This is terrifying, yeah.
51:59 Speaker 03 So that entryway and the staircase I designed, and that was really personal.
52:05 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:05 Speaker 03 And when I walked back in, I went, huh, this isn't the idea.
52:11 Speaker 01 Oh, no.
52:12 Dax Shepard? Oh.
52:14 Speaker 03 It was tough.
52:15 Dax Shepard? Oh.
52:16 Speaker 03 Because we went the opposite of where we were, which was like really minimalist, really a lot of industrial materials, like really modern.
52:28 Speaker 03 To a Parisian row house in the 30s. Ornate ceilings and all that stuff. And it just didn't feel me.
52:40 Dax Shepard? Wow, so what did you do at that moment?
52:42 Speaker 03 Learned how to deal with it.
52:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
52:45 Speaker 03 I'm sure we'll either pick it up and move it soon or renovate it.
52:51 Dax Shepard? Okay.
52:52 Speaker 01 So you still feel that?
52:54 Speaker 03 Yeah.
52:54 Speaker 01 Wow.
52:55 Dax Shepard? It never grew on you in the way. How did the diners feel about it?
53:00 Speaker 03 I mean, everybody likes a fresh look.
53:03 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:03 Dax Shepard? Rob, you were there post renovation, yeah?
53:05 Speaker 04 Yeah.
53:06 Dax Shepard? And what did you think of the decor?
53:08 Speaker 04 It wasn't my favorite.
53:09 Dax Shepard? Oh, okay, okay.
53:13 Speaker 01 I bet I would love it. It sounds like me.
53:15 Dax Shepard? I think I would too.
53:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:17 Speaker 03 I wonder if you would be confident to say that if I would have said that.
53:22 Speaker 01 Oh, he definitely would not.
53:23 Speaker 04 Absolutely not.
53:24 Dax Shepard? No, of course not, of course not.
53:27 Speaker 01 I wish I could have gone in all, like, the first. Yeah. Like, that would have been cool.
53:31 Dax Shepard? Did you have the impulse to go like, no, we gotta, we gotta redo this?
53:35 Speaker 03 I mean, that would have been impossible.
53:37 Dax Shepard? It would have been impossible.
53:38 Speaker 01 Which is good, because maybe at some point in your life, you would have.
53:41 Speaker 03 Right.
53:41 Speaker 01 Maybe you learned some acceptance for that period.
53:44 Speaker 03 I buried it.
53:45 Speaker 01 Yeah.
53:47 Dax Shepard? Okay, so I want to know, like, when we talk to musicians about how they come up with songs, there's like some pretty common patterns that people, you know, people are in the car, they're in the shower, there's these areas where like you're just distracted enough that comes. So I'm curious, like, how do dishes come to you?
54:04 Speaker 03 I would say primarily three ways. Education. I don't have a motion on my bedside table, wake up in the middle of the night and write an idea down. That doesn't happen.
54:15 Dax Shepard? Two pickles, three carrots, a tumor.
54:17 Speaker 03 So there's a lot of study, actually. What other chefs are doing now, what they did 100 years ago. Are there forgotten dishes that we should resurrect?
54:27 Dax Shepard? Uh huh.
54:28 Speaker 03 Or spin off to lose that.
54:30 Dax Shepard? Is some of that research, though, just traveling and eating a lot of food? So that would appeal to me, yeah?
54:36 Speaker 03 Yeah, there is.
54:39 Speaker 03 The unexplainable impulses that come in, whether it is music or a painting, where I recently I started with a parabagio aesthetic in mind.
54:53 Speaker 01 Oh.
54:54 Speaker 03 Really broke, really. And I was trying to replicate that on the plate. And it went very far from there to like a Mondrian aesthetic or geometric. So like, it's wildly unpredictable. When we first opened, I was into Rage Against the Machine. And there was a track that they had that, I mean, you know their music, it's intense. But there was an area in a track that broke really hard, really abrupt. And in my head, in that second, I was like, how can I do that with the menu?
55:30 Speaker 01 Mm hmm.
55:31 Speaker 03 The perversion of food. So it's that sort of, everything goes through a food filter.
55:36 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
55:38 Speaker 03 I asked myself, can I spin off of that shape? Or, you know, this, this and that. The other thing is ingredients. Like, I pick up a tomato and I smell it. And my head goes somewhere.
55:51 Speaker 01 Wow.
55:52 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:52 Speaker 01 It's almost like synesthesia.
55:54 Dax Shepard? Do you love going to like markets in Italy and stuff like that?
55:58 Speaker 03 Yeah. Doing around the stuff, you have to touch it. It is so visceral. And then once you're in Japan or anywhere, anywhere else, Mexico, watching them, what they do in their traditional food is wildly inspirational.
56:14 Dax Shepard? And does some of it come from just you're preparing something? And you just get some weird inkling to incorporate another ingredient or something? And that spins off into its own?
56:25 Speaker 03 Yeah, I mean, one example would be truffles and banana.
56:30 Dax Shepard? Oh, sure.
56:30 Speaker 03 I don't know.
56:31 Dax Shepard? Yeah, that's a weird pairing.
56:33 Speaker 03 And then when you look into it, there are aromatic components that they both have that connect them, but I didn't know that.
56:40 Dax Shepard? Ooh, this wasn't even one of my questions, but now I'm thinking about it. Do you think that AI at some point will be able to analyze all these things that are patterns that emerge that we're not seeing, that everyone loves?
56:52 Speaker 03 Yeah, I use AI a lot.
56:54 Dax Shepard? Oh, you do? How will you use it?
56:56 Speaker 03 Mostly research. When I was interviewed in two thousand two and the writer asked me what my favorite kitchen tool was, and I said, Google.
57:07 Dax Shepard? Google?
57:09 Speaker 03 Everything's right there, and that's what the inspiration, the information, I know how to cook.
57:14 Speaker 01 Right.
57:15 Speaker 03 So once I have that little nugget of something, then we can.
57:19 Speaker 01 What's like your weeknight dinner? Twenty minutes?
57:23 Speaker 03 Eating for me is very complicated.
57:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, you probably have a really hard relationship with it.
57:29 Speaker 03 The irony of it all is, there's a lot. So I go through that period where first of all, I'm diagnosed, and I'm like, this is insane. Is this a joke?
57:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
57:40 Speaker 03 And then you go through treatment, and you're unable to taste, but then that comes back, and you're like, I'm good. The issue then becomes the atrophy from the radiation.
57:51 Dax Shepard? The long-term effects of it.
57:52 Speaker 03 Everything stiffens. I mean, you can see everything. It's really tight. So there's a muscle or there's a flap that when you drink or eat, it folds over and covers your lymph pipe.
58:06 Dax Shepard? Right.
58:06 Speaker 03 So you don't, that's right. Mine doesn't fold down.
58:11 Speaker 03 So it's very, very hard to swallow.
58:15 Speaker 01 Oh, wow.
58:16 Speaker 03 And then about seven years ago, because of the radiation as well, my gums recede, and I got a really bad infection. My whole face.
58:30 Speaker 03 So they had to pull all of these bottom teeth. So now here we are again. As a chef, I'm not able to.
58:41 Speaker 03 Yeah.
58:42 Dax Shepard? True.
58:42 Speaker 03 Really. With that comes this social stigma where I'm like, not only if I go out with friends, I have to really be careful and navigate that, which is a little bit awkward, but also I'm me. So if I go to a restaurant that is of a certain level, they know who I am.
59:04 Speaker 01 Yes, definitely.
59:05 Speaker 03 And what chefs want to do, when other chefs come in, they want to feed them the whole menu.
59:11 Dax Shepard? Yeah, if I were you, I'd only eat at McDonald's. You'd be too much pressure.
59:14 Speaker 03 My relationship with it now is complex.
59:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
59:20 Speaker 05 Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.
59:26 Dax Shepard? We get support from our presenting sponsor, YouTube Premium. Now, you already know I'm a big YouTube person. It's incredible on its own, but Premium makes the whole experience feel enhanced. Like, you don't realize how much better it can get until you try it. The biggest game changer for me, background play. I love long, two-hour deep dives, you name it, motorcycles, travel, cars.
59:51 Speaker 01 Cooking shows for me.
59:52 Dax Shepard? Cooking. Listen, with Premium, you don't have to keep the screen open, so I can lock my phone, slide it into my pocket, and listen to a podcast while I'm folding laundry or working out. It's also completely ad-free, meaning when a narrator is building up to the climax of an insane story, there's zero interruption. And for travel, offline download saves the day. I love this one. Relying on airplane Wi-Fi can be a gamble, so I just download my favorite videos before takeoff. And with Smart Downloads, Premium will automatically download new videos from channels you actually follow without having to lift a finger. I'm covered if I forget to download a video I want to watch, or even if there's no service. And the home run for me is that YouTube Premium remembers exactly where I left off
1:00:34 Dax Shepard? and lets me continue watching on another device from right where I stopped, so I can start a video on my TV while brushing my teeth and pick it right back up on my phone on my morning walk. So yeah, YouTube was already great, but Premium supercharges it. If you like YouTube, you'll love Premium. Try YouTube Premium. For two months free at youtube.com/premium. Trial eligibility varies. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. We get support from our sponsor, Lilly. For adults with obesity or with excess weight and weight-related medical problems, it's time to find out about Foundo or for Gleepran. Foundo is a once-daily prescription GLP-1 medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight
1:01:18 Dax Shepard? who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.
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1:02:03 Speaker 06 Once Daily Foundo is available by prescription only in 0.8 mg, 2.5 mg, 5.5 mg, 9 mg, 14.5 mg, and 17.2 mg tablets. Learn more at foundo.lilly.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX. Now is perfect to talk to your doctor about Foundo.
1:02:20 Dax Shepard? We get support from Skims. So Monica just informed me that she's a girl's girl, and I nodded like I knew exactly what that meant.
1:02:29 Speaker 01 Yeah, but the girls who get it, they get it.
1:02:32 Dax Shepard? Okay, but for those of us who are clearly not girls, walk me through it.
1:02:35 Speaker 01 Well, you know how much I love my Skims fleece joggers? Because the plush fleece is so soft, it's cozy, it's really comfortable without feeling too heavy. Well, I went to friend them, and she would not stop talking about how comfy they were. She almost didn't give them back to me, which was upsetting, but I'm a girl's girl, so I let her have it.
1:02:53 Dax Shepard? Great, great, great.
1:02:54 Speaker 01 So the sleep sets are awesome because they are very soft and comfortable, but they're cute. If I'm in my sleep set, I- Feel fine about going down the street to pick up my food. I'm still looking cute, but I'm comfy and I'm cozy.
1:03:07 Dax Shepard? Roger.
1:03:08 Speaker 01 A really fun thing to do is if you're going on vacation with your girlfriends, to get matching Skims pajamas. I've done this with Callie and it is so fun. First of all, the pics are so cute, but also it's just fun and friendship.
1:03:21 Dax Shepard? So a girl's girl is looking out for your friends with better loungewear. I get it. Am I one of your girls now?
1:03:26 Speaker 01 You are. You and the other girlies can shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcasts in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows.
1:03:40 Dax Shepard? We get support by Peloton. You know that feeling when you're spiraling over a problem and you just can't figure it out? When that happens to me, I need a change of pace and I've found that running is the best way. It takes my brain out of the driver's seat and I come back with a fresh perspective. Running can be freeing and cathartic and Peloton helps you feel all of that. And now that feeling fits wherever you need it with the new Peloton Tread Flex. It's movable and foldable, designed to fit your life. So next time you feel stuck, you can go for a run literally anywhere, whether that's in your office, living room, or even the attic. Plus they have classes with expert instructors and programs to meet you at any level and keep you moving.
1:04:22 Dax Shepard? Let yourself run. Explore the new Peloton Tread Flex at one peloton.com.
1:04:35 Dax Shepard? Now I have the type of brain, I know Monica has it too. I would have in 2007 thought, yeah, of course, because I didn't deserve this success of this restaurant. I don't really deserve it. And now this is the universe's right side.
1:04:51 Speaker 01 This is the other thing.
1:04:51 Dax Shepard? Do you have any of those terrible thoughts where it's like, oh, of course this is happening?
1:04:56 Speaker 03 No.
1:04:56 Dax Shepard? Oh, that's good.
1:04:57 Speaker 03 I didn't have that. But what I did have really bad was after treating it, the restaurant won a lot of awards.
1:05:05 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah.
1:05:06 Speaker 03 And in the back of my mind, it was always like, I'm getting sympathy votes.
1:05:10 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:05:10 Dax Shepard? How do you thought that?
1:05:11 Speaker 03 That bothered me a lot.
1:05:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:05:14 Speaker 03 For years.
1:05:15 Dax Shepard? Interesting.
1:05:16 Speaker 03 I was like, ah, they feel bad.
1:05:18 Speaker 01 I mean, that's definitely not what happened, but yeah.
1:05:20 Dax Shepard? I hate being pitied. It's like my most.
1:05:23 Speaker 03 Right.
1:05:23 Dax Shepard? Yeah, I hate it.
1:05:24 Speaker 03 Only a favor.
1:05:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
1:05:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:05:28 Dax Shepard? I do want to ask really quick a couple of technical things, because I think it'd be fun to educate all of us a little bit on this. When I think of taste, like if you ask a civilian what is taste, you're just thinking like what the flavor is on your tongue. And then maybe you know, oh, a lot of that's coming from your nose. But tell me about aroma and texture, because I don't even think that's something people realize are impacting what they quote taste.
1:05:50 Speaker 03 Right. I mean, aromas, that is taste. So you have the five basics on your tongue, and those are like blunt instruments. There's no pinpoint there.
1:06:03 Dax Shepard? No scalpel in there.
1:06:03 Speaker 03 Yeah, and everything else is right here. That's why when you smell a glass of wine and you smell chocolate, there's no chocolate in there.
1:06:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:06:14 Speaker 03 Right?
1:06:14 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:06:14 Speaker 03 But you taste it, you perceive it. So that is vitally important. And it became really important when I shouldn't taste.
1:06:22 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:06:22 Speaker 03 I mean, I would build dishes solely on how they smell together.
1:06:27 Dax Shepard? So you could smell.
1:06:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:06:29 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:06:29 Speaker 03 That never went away.
1:06:30 Dax Shepard? That's, that's a blessing.
1:06:32 Speaker 03 And texture, people don't realize how influenced the body is, like certain textures will produce saliva. And then that saliva mixes with whatever you have in your mouth, and it hits different areas of your palate and the bodies are freezing.
1:06:46 Speaker 01 So fascinating.
1:06:46 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:06:48 Speaker 03 So all of that ties in, and it really is not something that people pay attention to.
1:06:55 Dax Shepard? Right, you get all of it at once, and it's hard for you to parse out which thing you're enjoying.
1:07:00 Speaker 03 Right.
1:07:00 Speaker 01 But it's biology, really.
1:07:01 Dax Shepard? Is there another thing missing? I guess the environment too.
1:07:04 Speaker 03 So that's what I think. We've always been pretty theatrical with our stuff.
1:07:09 Dax Shepard? Some pageantry.
1:07:10 Speaker 03 And so I really look at color and light and sound and all aspects of the environment smell. We really play with that.
1:07:21 Dax Shepard? Is there any music?
1:07:22 Speaker 03 If it makes sense and it's curated. We did a course at Mumpf Point where everybody was served it in the room at the same time. It was ridiculously crunchy.
1:07:34 Speaker 03 So we passed out a card and on the card it said, "Fly it."
1:07:39 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:07:40 Speaker 03 So the whole room just goes, "Fly it."
1:07:42 Dax Shepard? Self-conscious.
1:07:43 Speaker 03 Yeah, and then everybody at the same time started chewing on these like cheetos or whatever.
1:07:48 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:07:49 Speaker 03 And the whole room is like.
1:07:50 Speaker 01 Oh my gosh, like a chorus of, oh wow.
1:07:54 Dax Shepard? Was it your restaurant that did something too, like something outrageously hot too? Everyone had to eat something really hot?
1:07:59 Speaker 03 No. We played with temperature, hot and cold in your mouth at the same time.
1:08:04 Dax Shepard? Oh, I meant like, um.
1:08:05 Speaker 01 Spicy.
1:08:06 Dax Shepard? Cap- capsaicin.
1:08:08 Speaker 03 We've removed the spiciness from it with the very, very evaporator. So none of that capcium comes up in the distillate. So chilies smell amazing.
1:08:19 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:08:20 Speaker 03 I personally can't do hot.
1:08:22 Dax Shepard? Can't fuck with them, yeah.
1:08:23 Speaker 03 But the smell is amazing.
1:08:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:08:26 Dax Shepard? I wouldn't, again, I don't really think of this, but food, you think in seasons, right? So we're gonna have morels in the spring. So you just know like, we have to do something with morels. In the summertime, we're gonna have different fruits.
1:08:38 Speaker 03 Tomatoes.
1:08:39 Dax Shepard? Tomatoes.
1:08:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:08:40 Dax Shepard? And so because you have to be ahead of the game, right? You can't wait till the morels arrive, right? I can imagine your existence has been very, very compartmentalized by seasons in a way that other people's probably aren't.
1:08:52 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:08:53 Dax Shepard? Can you like feel that? And what has that done for your experience of life to be so aware of what's happening seasonally? I think it could make you feel like time is passing way too fast. Or I could imagine too, since you're in it so presently, maybe it slows time down. I don't know what it does.
1:09:10 Speaker 03 I think it speeds it up. And like you were saying, if it's December or even February and you're like, hey, we have to have a morel dish, so we have to start planning it. What did we do last year? How did we manipulate it? It has to be different, can't be the same dish.
1:09:26 Dax Shepard? And you don't have them, right?
1:09:28 Speaker 03 Right.
1:09:28 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:09:29 Speaker 03 They have to be new.
1:09:29 Dax Shepard? Yeah, it's its own challenge.
1:09:31 Speaker 03 So it's like a movie or a book, you have a deadline. And that self-imposed pressure or nature's pressure, it templates your whole year.
1:09:42 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:09:43 Speaker 03 And as far as perception, it's like, I was always a big outdoors person in Michigan. We did a lot of hunting, you know, so the seasons really resonate with me.
1:09:54 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:09:54 Speaker 03 They're very important. When you smell those oak leaves or that first snow, the feeling of it.
1:10:01 Dax Shepard? Oh, yeah.
1:10:02 Speaker 03 Quiet.
1:10:02 Dax Shepard? I always think of fall, when it's fall, you're going back to school, there's new girls, you have new clothes, you go to like a Halloween party, it's dark early. To me, like a lot of people think spring is romantic, to me, fall's like the most romantic.
1:10:17 Speaker 03 My favorite. I feel like that's probably a Midwest thing.
1:10:20 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:10:21 Speaker 03 Because of that, that weed change, that whole thing.
1:10:24 Dax Shepard? Yeah, and then come like end of May, you're like, oh, it's time to fucking party. I also think we have a very bipolar existence up in Michigan, right? Where it's just like, it was miserable.
1:10:34 Speaker 03 Miserable.
1:10:35 Dax Shepard? You see it, it gets to thirty-nine degrees and the sun's out in April and dudes are in convertibles with no shirts. It's like we're just fucking dying to come out of this gray hell. So I just think it's really heightened the just overall temperament.
1:10:50 Speaker 03 I believe that.
1:10:50 Dax Shepard? Now, the restaurant culture, I talk about it all the time. My girlfriend of nine years in my twenties, she worked at a bunch of different restaurants. They all party fucking hard, their hours are crazy, they sleep in.
1:11:00 Speaker 03 Stress, yeah.
1:11:02 Dax Shepard? It's a culture.
1:11:03 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:11:03 Dax Shepard? How did you navigate that culture?
1:11:05 Speaker 03 Pretty good. That was another thing with Thomas, his professionalism was paramount, is paramount. I had a rule that I wasn't friends with my employees. Sometimes that didn't work out.
1:11:20 Dax Shepard? Some people are just too attractive.
1:11:21 Speaker 03 Right, that too, yeah. But I was too busy working the party. The priority wasn't that. And like I said, I had never drank heavily up until a little bit later. So I was focused, but yes, it is.
1:11:38 Speaker 03 Rampant in the industry. And I think it's getting a lot better, but it's because of the generation. The generation's not drinking.
1:11:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:11:49 Speaker 03 So there's always some substances in there, but I think it's getting better.
1:11:53 Dax Shepard? I think the industry selects, though, for people who, A, they're night owls, generally, right? They like arousal, they like high stress, they function well in high stress, and they're fast.
1:12:06 Speaker 03 You're surrounded by it all the time.
1:12:08 Dax Shepard? Probably a lot of ADHD in that world.
1:12:10 Speaker 03 Probably.
1:12:11 Dax Shepard? I think you're kind of self-selecting for a lot of qualities that lend themselves to also being addictive.
1:12:16 Speaker 03 Right.
1:12:17 Speaker 01 Also, if you're dealing with such a high-pressure situation at work, you want to let go. You want to release.
1:12:25 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's very, very there.
1:12:28 Dax Shepard? You know, the thing I used to be really judgmental on, and I've done a complete 180 on it, and it was with her. It was with Bree, who worked at all these restaurants. And the servers would all, once a week, generally on their day off, they would go eat at a really nice restaurant.
1:12:41 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:12:41 Dax Shepard? And we lived in a one-bedroom apartment in Santa Monica. I think our cumulative income was like 18,000 a year between the two of us. She was making 10, I was making 8. And I'd be like, you just went and spent $180 on dinner? Like, I could not wrap my head
1:12:55 Speaker 03 Right.
1:12:56 Dax Shepard? around spending that amount of money on something when we didn't have shit. And I was more like, let's save up for blank, this TV. And then I remember there was this whole movement, I don't know, about 10 years ago, where people were getting really critical about millennials. They made fun of them about the avocado toast. Now, after that, I think now there's a lot of great social science that has studied this. And they're like, okay, on your deathbed, what do you remember? Well, people remember experiences on their deathbed. They evaluate their life based on their experiences, not how many inches their TV was. It's not how it works.
1:13:26 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:13:26 Dax Shepard? And so whatever that costs, it's actually a bargain.
1:13:29 Speaker 03 It's a bargain.
1:13:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:13:31 Dax Shepard? And so I've come completely around, and I guess I just want to end this on encouraging people, do it, man, save up for a fucking amazing experience at a restaurant. Because it's so memorable, that trip to French Laundry. Yeah, it was obnoxiously expensive. And I remember it so well, it's like a moment of my life.
1:13:49 Speaker 03 We had a three-top come in. It was an 80-year-old woman, her daughter, and her granddaughter.
1:13:55 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:13:56 Speaker 03 And they came down to the kitchen after the meal. And the 80 year old was like, it's my 80th birthday. I never thought I would have a meal like this.
1:14:07 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:14:07 Speaker 03 It was the most magical thing. She started frying.
1:14:10 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:14:11 Speaker 03 And she's like, and I got to share it with my daughter and my granddaughter.
1:14:14 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:14:15 Speaker 03 So like to your point.
1:14:16 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:14:17 Speaker 01 That's a light high.
1:14:18 Dax Shepard? You should spend money on moments with people you love that you'll remember forever.
1:14:23 Speaker 03 Exact compliment. Those way beyond stars.
1:14:26 Dax Shepard? The mobile stars.
1:14:27 Speaker 03 Yeah, right, right.
1:14:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:14:29 Speaker 03 So in that way, it is very, very rewarding.
1:14:33 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:14:34 Speaker 03 To have that platform to provide people to make those memories.
1:14:40 Dax Shepard? It's rad.
1:14:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's awesome.
1:14:42 Dax Shepard? Well, it's an honor to meet you, man.
1:14:43 Speaker 01 It really is.
1:14:43 Dax Shepard? Yeah, it's really cool.
1:14:44 Speaker 01 I can't wait to come into the restaurant. I know it's really hard to get in, but I feel like now I'm in it.
1:14:49 Speaker 03 I probably know someone.
1:14:51 Dax Shepard? Well, people may famously remember, we tried to shame you guys into giving Rob a reservation over Christmas. And you guys did, and we were so, so grateful. Rob, was it the most memorable night ever?
1:15:01 Speaker 04 Yeah, it was incredible.
1:15:02 Dax Shepard? Despite the decor?
1:15:03 Speaker 01 Yeah, Rob, you really stuck your foot in there.
1:15:05 Speaker 03 Imagine if you guys just said, nah, it was okay.
1:15:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, oh my God, oh my God. No, he came back really glowing.
1:15:15 Dax Shepard? Oh, that's great. Well, Grant, thank you so much. This has been a blast. Just a quick reminder that as part of our summer break, here's a rerun of one of our favorite fact checks.
1:15:27 Dax Shepard? I'm in an incredibly beautiful new sweater that my friend got me.
1:15:30 Speaker 01 It looks gorgeous.
1:15:31 Dax Shepard? I just put on for the first time and I'm truly blown away.
1:15:34 Speaker 01 The green is really nice.
1:15:35 Dax Shepard? And the fit is really kind of perfect.
1:15:37 Speaker 01 I know, they know how to do it.
1:15:39 Dax Shepard? And I think I like these cuffs where you have to roll them up. They're too long on their own. They're clearly designed to be rolled. See, look, that's a seven inch, nine inch cuff.
1:15:47 Speaker 01 It's nice though.
1:15:48 Dax Shepard? Yeah. But you wouldn't wear it like that, right?
1:15:49 Speaker 01 Well, I'm not allowed because I'm short and they have a rule that if you're short, you have to show a little bit of skin. If you're wearing oversized clothing, you have to show a little bit of skin on your arm.
1:15:59 Dax Shepard? Because you'll get lost in it. I just rode my bicycle.
1:16:02 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:16:03 Dax Shepard? Yeah. My first time in biker shorts.
1:16:07 Speaker 01 How'd it go?
1:16:08 Dax Shepard? Well, I just can't believe I'm a person that owns biker shorts and wears them now. I'm having a hard time.
1:16:13 Speaker 01 Well, you're 50. So a lot of things have changed.
1:16:17 Dax Shepard? Yeah, but also I think that's something that's best done much younger. Almost the 50 compounds it. First, I never envisioned myself as being someone that would be in those biker shorts.
1:16:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, sure.
1:16:27 Dax Shepard? But they have a pad built into them. And the seat is very tiny on the road bike. And it hurts here on ooz.
1:16:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:16:35 Dax Shepard? I don't want to say it hurts here. It does hurt.
1:16:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, it hurts.
1:16:37 Dax Shepard? I was like, oh, it's a nice padding. I put them on for the first time. I felt like, Penae always talks about like, eventize your run. I was like, well, these are built for nothing other than riding a bicycle.
1:16:46 Speaker 01 Sure.
1:16:47 Dax Shepard? And let's do that. And the padding was nice. And I love that there's no fabric flowing anywhere else. I think I went up the hill faster because of them.
1:16:56 Speaker 01 Probably aerodynamics.
1:16:57 Dax Shepard? I'm not gonna adopt the Lycra shirt, though. I decided. I swore a wife beater.
1:17:03 Speaker 01 So you're back home.
1:17:04 Dax Shepard? I'm back home. I'm very, very, very happy to be back home.
1:17:08 Speaker 01 I got you a present for your birthday. Do you want to open it?
1:17:09 Dax Shepard? I would love to open it.
1:17:12 Dax Shepard? Let me really take my time here. We, I'm looking at a beautiful tissue paper.
1:17:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:17:17 Dax Shepard? With, oh, can I say one thing? This will sound derogatory, but let me preface it by saying, I could be in the tourism board for Mexico City. I love it. It's an enchanted.
1:17:28 Speaker 01 I want to go.
1:17:29 Dax Shepard? Romantic city.
1:17:30 Speaker 01 Mmm.
1:17:30 Dax Shepard? Food's dynamite. If you ever go, go to Javre 77 French restaurant. We went twice.
1:17:36 Speaker 01 Ooh.
1:17:36 Dax Shepard? The French onion soup's the best I've ever had in my life. On the second trip on my birthday night, I got two bowls of it to start.
1:17:43 Speaker 01 Oh, wow. Like when you got two steaks?
1:17:45 Dax Shepard? Yes, and I would, I would tear out a fingernail right now to have it again.
1:17:48 Speaker 01 Wow.
1:17:49 Dax Shepard? And share it with you. It's, it was the most incredible.
1:17:51 Speaker 01 Yum.
1:17:51 Dax Shepard? But anyways, the facial tissue, and I had a cold, it wasn't ideal.
1:17:56 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:17:56 Dax Shepard? And where it really hit me was.
1:17:58 Speaker 01 One ply?
1:17:58 Dax Shepard? Maybe less. I was on, at a nice hotel, mind you.
1:18:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:18:02 Dax Shepard? We got on the flight. I went into the bathroom and I pulled the tissue. Out of the mirror that's in the lavatory of the airplane. And the second I touched it, I was like, ooh, that's soft. And then I thought, how bad was the tissue where the airplane tissue felt like puffs plus with lotion?
1:18:20 Speaker 01 Oh my.
1:18:21 Dax Shepard? Just to make it relative.
1:18:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, cuz that's one ply.
1:18:24 Dax Shepard? Yeah, I think it was like point six ply.
1:18:26 Speaker 01 Oh, okay.
1:18:28 Dax Shepard? Anyways, beautiful tissue paper.
1:18:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:18:30 Dax Shepard? With purple flowers, really nice.
1:18:33 Speaker 01 The tissue is from Nikki Kehoe, the present is not.
1:18:36 Dax Shepard? Oh, this is a multi-stage gift.
1:18:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:18:38 Dax Shepard? Okay, beautiful tissue paper and then a burlap sack.
1:18:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, also from Nikki Kehoe. That's how they wrap.
1:18:44 Dax Shepard? Wonderful.
1:18:47 Dax Shepard? Oh, buddy, The Stories of Raymond Carver. Will you please be quiet, please? Is this an original?
1:18:56 Speaker 01 I bought it as a first edition and it is signed.
1:19:00 Dax Shepard? It's signed?
1:19:02 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:19:03 Dax Shepard? Did you pay the face value of eight dollars and 95 cents?
1:19:07 Speaker 01 No, it was on sale, actually, half off.
1:19:10 Dax Shepard? What year was this published? Cuz we can, I think it's fascinating that a hardcover beautifully bound book was eight ninety-five.
1:19:18 Speaker 01 I know, that's true.
1:19:19 Dax Shepard? I know I'm all over the place in a little manic, but I just gotta add back to Little Women. Which I love.
1:19:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:19:28 Dax Shepard? As you know, Greta Gerwig's number one superfan now. At the end of that movie, they show them pressing and making her first book. The book, Little Women.
1:19:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:19:38 Dax Shepard? I don't know if you remember that sequence.
1:19:39 Speaker 01 I don't know if I remember it.
1:19:40 Dax Shepard? But the amount of time and effort it took to make a book in the 1890s. Where they're pressing it all, they were cutting it with a saw, they were sewing the binding by hand. And then they were cutting leather out in a pattern and then gluing and putting that in a press. I'm like, it took like a week to make a single volume. They should have been $600.
1:20:04 Speaker 01 Exactly. Well, that's why they're so rare.
1:20:06 Dax Shepard? And it explains why, I think it was Carnegie who invented the library. There were no libraries. Books were just too expensive. They were like, probably in today's dollars, they probably were hundreds of dollars.
1:20:17 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:20:17 Dax Shepard? That amount of manpower. Okay, so this was first published.
1:20:20 Speaker 01 We think about wealth disparity now, but then, in order to even read a book, you had to be a millionaire.
1:20:28 Dax Shepard? Yeah, I'll get the number wrong, but to put it into perspective, like. So I guess Elon is now worth $400 billion recently. Although that stock just fell, whatever, let's just say he hit 400 billion. 400 billion of our total GDP and national amount of money isn't even 0.01%. When Rockefeller hit a billion, he, they say he actually had like 15 cents of every dollar that existed in America. So it's like, as bad as it feels now, it was.
1:21:00 Speaker 01 It was bad, worse.
1:21:01 Dax Shepard? Exponentially, order of magnitude crazier with the first rich people.
1:21:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's true.
1:21:06 Dax Shepard? Okay, so this is 1963. So this book costs $8.95 in 1963.
1:21:13 Speaker 01 How much do we think that is now? Rob, can you put it in?
1:21:16 Dax Shepard? Well, that's a great, we have that technology.
1:21:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, we sure do.
1:21:20 Dax Shepard? I added a new, I actually wrote up my resolutions last night.
1:21:23 Speaker 01 Oh, great.
1:21:24 Dax Shepard? Which I don't know if I've ever written them down.
1:21:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, I wrote some down too.
1:21:27 Dax Shepard? You did, did you journal this morning?
1:21:28 Speaker 01 I did.
1:21:29 Dax Shepard? Congratulations.
1:21:30 Speaker 01 I journaled every day.
1:21:31 Dax Shepard? I'm proud of you.
1:21:31 Speaker 01 I had therapy too, and we talked about it. And she said I, I could.
1:21:37 Dax Shepard? Burn them?
1:21:38 Speaker 01 Yeah, or shred them or whatever.
1:21:42 Dax Shepard? Can I have her number?
1:21:43 Speaker 01 No.
1:21:45 Speaker 01 She's like, if that's gonna allow you to really be able to be honest and truthful with yourself in a way you won't be able to otherwise.
1:21:55 Dax Shepard? And let it out of your body.
1:21:56 Speaker 01 You know, sometimes her and I talk about, like, there are things that I talk about with her that I, that only, only she gets to hear. And she said, you know, it's not just me, you also have you.
1:22:08 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:22:09 Speaker 01 And you have a dialogue with, you can have a dialogue with yourself.
1:22:12 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:22:13 Speaker 01 Especially via the journal.
1:22:15 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:22:16 Speaker 01 But, but yes, of course, I have to be very honest with myself there. And so if I, if I'm out of fear not doing that, then it's not worth it. So I do, I'm still deciding.
1:22:30 Dax Shepard? We may have talked about this, but, and I had mentioned there was a period I stopped journaling over the last 20 years. And then I had a relapse, obviously. And I didn't even put all this together, but through therapy with Mark, I think what occurred to me was.
1:22:49 Dax Shepard? I, there were things I, I couldn't write down, just like you were saying, are you afraid someone's gonna find it? And I'm like, no. But in truth, there was a moment, yes, I'd be afraid someone would find it. And I had this weird dedication to never lie to that journal.
1:23:04 Speaker 01 Right, right.
1:23:06 Dax Shepard? So I just couldn't, I didn't, it didn't feel like I was making a decision to stop journaling. It just was like, this is really weird. I've been journaling for 17 years or whatever, and I haven't in a while, but I'm not overthinking it. But of course, in reflection, I was like, I couldn't really, yeah, be dishonest to this thing.
1:23:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:23:23 Dax Shepard? I love this. This is such a thoughtful, wonderful present.
1:23:27 Speaker 04 It would have cost eighty-nine dollars and eighteen cents.
1:23:30 Speaker 01 Wow.
1:23:30 Dax Shepard? Eighty-nine dollars for a book.
1:23:33 Speaker 01 That's a lot. It's not enough, though. I wish it was five thousand.
1:23:39 Dax Shepard? Okay, this is a fantastic present. Very thoughtful. Thank you so much.
1:23:43 Speaker 01 You're welcome.
1:23:44 Dax Shepard? Okay, how was therapy?
1:23:45 Speaker 01 It was good. It's my first therapy of the new year. You know, for a second, I was debating, I was like, maybe I only need to start going like as check-ins now. Like, maybe I don't really need to be on this consistent of a schedule. But then today, I was, I was like, no, I need to keep up my, my once every two weeks.
1:24:08 Dax Shepard? Well, look, I've stopped, so I really am in no position to say this.
1:24:10 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:24:11 Dax Shepard? But it definitely falls under the umbrella of like, well, it couldn't hurt to go.
1:24:16 Speaker 01 It does not hurt.
1:24:17 Dax Shepard? And it potentially could hurt to not go.
1:24:20 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
1:24:21 Dax Shepard? It's kind of the vitamin debate. It's like the scientific community is kind of split down the middle whether vitamins work or not.
1:24:26 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:24:27 Dax Shepard? But it's like, I don't know, on the chance that they work.
1:24:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:24:30 Dax Shepard? And they're not gonna harm you. All right, someone's gonna comment. There are, yes, I hear you.
1:24:34 Speaker 01 There are some bad ones.
1:24:35 Dax Shepard? Oh, I know. And you can have too much of certain things. But just in general, if you're taking the, you know, not above the daily dose of any one thing, it's not gonna harm you.
1:24:43 Speaker 01 Speaking of, okay, you know how I'm always paranoid about drowning myself?
1:24:48 Dax Shepard? And too much water?
1:24:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, or people in general, like drinking too much water and then drowning themselves.
1:24:53 Dax Shepard? And you, you know, Gundry's new movement is less water. Not shockingly.
1:24:59 Speaker 01 So him and I are aligned.
1:25:03 Dax Shepard? Soulmates.
1:25:04 Speaker 01 That's why he's got those fresh hands. He doesn't drink any water.
1:25:07 Dax Shepard? No hydration.
1:25:08 Speaker 01 Oh, my gosh. I'm gonna put my hair up real time. If you want to see it.
1:25:12 Dax Shepard? It looks so good down, but go ahead. Let's see what happens there.
1:25:14 Speaker 01 Okay. If you want to see it, go to YouTube.
1:25:17 Dax Shepard? Do you ever do an up and then a braid and back?
1:25:20 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, I did it for, when's this out?
1:25:24 Speaker 04 Uh, the eighth.
1:25:26 Speaker 01 I did it for a, a commercial we were just in together.
1:25:31 Dax Shepard? Oh, yeah, yeah. That comes out yesterday.
1:25:33 Speaker 01 It came out yesterday.
1:25:35 Dax Shepard? Oh, my God.
1:25:36 Speaker 01 Our little commercial.
1:25:37 Dax Shepard? Yes, our second commercial of I hope many.
1:25:40 Speaker 01 Yes, exactly. It was so fun. And it's out. It was out yesterday. It's on our Instagrams. And in it, I do have a ponytail with a braid.
1:25:50 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:25:51 Speaker 01 That I love. It's just really hard for me to do by my, on my own. I, I had a hairstylist that day.
1:25:56 Dax Shepard? Oh, right, right.
1:25:57 Speaker 01 But I do like it.
1:25:58 Dax Shepard? Maybe a therapist can style your hair on the days you don't want to share.
1:26:01 Speaker 01 Oh, hair play? I would go every day.
1:26:04 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:26:04 Speaker 01 I'd pay for that. Anyway, um, okay, so drowning cells, everyone, everyone laughs at me. They guffaw.
1:26:12 Dax Shepard? Uh huh.
1:26:13 Speaker 01 And I met someone who drowned his cells.
1:26:16 Dax Shepard? Oh, tell me.
1:26:18 Speaker 01 And it was really bad.
1:26:19 Dax Shepard? Tell me more.
1:26:20 Speaker 01 Okay.
1:26:21 Dax Shepard? Who did you meet? Where'd you meet him? In front of 7-Eleven?
1:26:23 Speaker 01 No, he's a real person I know. I'm not gonna say, I'm not gonna out him.
1:26:26 Dax Shepard? Him or her's name.
1:26:28 Speaker 01 Right. He's a friend of a friend. This is a sad story. I'm transitioning into a sad story. When I was.
1:26:33 Dax Shepard? If you're having fun and laughing, stop.
1:26:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, stop. A big group of friends was meeting and one, Robbie.
1:26:42 Dax Shepard? Yeah, sweet Robbie from our chain.
1:26:44 Speaker 01 Yes, from the connections chain, wasn't there. I was like, where's Robbie? And his wife said, oh, he's at the hospital with.
1:26:53 Dax Shepard? Mutual.
1:26:54 Speaker 01 Yes, with, um.
1:26:56 Dax Shepard? The unmentionable.
1:26:57 Speaker 01 That, no, cause.
1:26:58 Dax Shepard? He's not underwear.
1:26:59 Speaker 04 Cause that's his name?
1:27:01 Speaker 01 No.
1:27:01 Dax Shepard? His name is Unmentionable?
1:27:03 Speaker 01 We can't call him Untouchable because he's Indian.
1:27:05 Dax Shepard? Oh, he is?
1:27:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, so now I'm giving a lot of info away.
1:27:08 Dax Shepard? Yeah, it's pretty easy to narrow this down at some point. If you know an Indian in Atlanta who's friends with Robbie.
1:27:15 Speaker 01 That's true. There is one. There is one. Anyway, this is sad. This is sad. He had a seizure.
1:27:21 Dax Shepard? Hmm.
1:27:23 Speaker 01 And I guess he had already had a seizure a year before and was on seizure medication and stuff.
1:27:33 Dax Shepard? But when you- You're the perfect person to tell this story because you have the same condition.
1:27:35 Speaker 01 Right, exactly. And I'm Indian. When he went the first time after his seizure, they checked his salinity levels and they were so low. And he did drink in like really excessive amount of water.
1:27:52 Dax Shepard? Do we know why?
1:27:53 Speaker 01 And he drowned his cells.
1:27:55 Dax Shepard? Yeah, he got rid of too much salt, but-
1:27:57 Speaker 01 He drowned his cells.
1:27:58 Dax Shepard? That was the medical?
1:27:59 Speaker 01 Yep.
1:27:59 Dax Shepard? Oh, okay. Okay. You have a good deal of salt, I think, from your diet. Don't take offense to that.
1:28:07 Speaker 01 Are you referring to like the potatoes I made or something?
1:28:10 Dax Shepard? No, but you like, you'll have a nice seasoned chicken.
1:28:14 Speaker 01 Oh, sure.
1:28:15 Dax Shepard? I think you have a good amount of salt.
1:28:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, I feel fine about my salinity.
1:28:18 Dax Shepard? Yes, um, so-
1:28:20 Speaker 01 And I don't drink any water, so I'm good there.
1:28:22 Dax Shepard? Do we know why he was drinking so much water? Was he on like an exercise routine?
1:28:25 Speaker 01 He was ex- he was on an exercise routine and I'm not sure why. Anyway, so turns out, per usual, I'm right. You can drown your cells.
1:28:37 Dax Shepard? Per usual.
1:28:38 Speaker 01 And, um-
1:28:40 Dax Shepard? Unsurprisingly.
1:28:41 Speaker 01 Please look out for that.
1:28:42 Dax Shepard? Okay, yeah.
1:28:43 Speaker 01 I don't know why I brought that up.
1:28:44 Dax Shepard? You and Kundra should collab on this.
1:28:47 Speaker 01 I'm happy to join forces.
1:28:49 Dax Shepard? Also, just if you are having a lot of water, maybe use some-
1:28:54 Speaker 01 Electrolytes!
1:28:55 Dax Shepard? Electrolytes, that's right. Keep an eye on your electrolytes.
1:28:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:28:58 Dax Shepard? There, the case, the only cases I've ever heard of is like, no one's ever died from ecstasy, but people have drank too much water on ecstasy.
1:29:07 Speaker 01 Exactly, they drowned their cells.
1:29:08 Dax Shepard? Yeah, okay. Okay. I wonder if they drown their cells or if when they drink way too much water, it backs up like congenital heart failure, basically like ends up filling up their body. Cause you know, my father, who had congenital heart, I don't know if it's congenital. He had heart disease and what would regularly happen is his heart was too big on one side and normal on one side. And so it would pump in a lot, but it couldn't pump out a lot. And then it just ends up backing your whole body up with water and you, you get really bloated. You put on all this water weight and then it starts really affecting your breathing and your lungs and everything else. And so my dad would go into the hospital for like four days and all he'd be on diuretics and he'd just be getting rid of gallons of water.
1:29:53 Speaker 01 Right. Oh my God.
1:29:54 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:29:55 Speaker 01 Okay. It says, yes, cells can drown in a condition called water intoxication or hyponatremia, which occurs when there's too much water in the body. When there's too much water in the body, sodium levels drop, causing water to move into cells and causing them to swell. This can be especially dangerous for brain cells as it can lead to pressure in the brain, confusion, drowsiness.
1:30:17 Dax Shepard? Wait, no epilepsy, pressure in the brain might've been completely all related.
1:30:22 Speaker 01 Exactly.
1:30:23 Dax Shepard? Oh man. Well, I'm sending love and well wishes to this anonymous person.
1:30:28 Speaker 01 Untouchable.
1:30:29 Dax Shepard? Why does Robbie have two very close Indian epileptic friends?
1:30:35 Speaker 01 I know.
1:30:36 Dax Shepard? He's very over indexed.
1:30:40 Speaker 01 He is extremely over indexed.
1:30:41 Dax Shepard? Cause I, I consider myself kind of unique in America, low percentage where I have a best friend who's Indian and epileptic and he's got now two?
1:30:50 Speaker 01 I know.
1:30:51 Dax Shepard? He has a fetish. I know you don't like that word, but.
1:30:54 Speaker 01 You think it's a king?
1:30:55 Dax Shepard? Ask if there's a third. If there's a third, he has a condition.
1:31:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, it is weird. Then I wondered, is like
1:31:04 Dax Shepard? What ethnicity is Robbie's wife?
1:31:06 Speaker 01 White.
1:31:07 Dax Shepard? White?
1:31:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, she doesn't have it. Actually.
1:31:10 Dax Shepard? No, no, no, no.
1:31:12 Speaker 01 Oh, my God.
1:31:12 Dax Shepard? No, no, no, no. Is he giving everyone this?
1:31:16 Speaker 04 He's poisoning everyone?
1:31:17 Dax Shepard? Oh, my God. He's so sweet. That would make sense. He's one of the sweetest people I've ever met.
1:31:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, but he has a dark side.
1:31:25 Speaker 01 Hi, Robbie.
1:31:26 Dax Shepard? Nasty.
1:31:27 Speaker 01 So his wife is my oldest best friend.
1:31:30 Dax Shepard? Uh huh.
1:31:31 Speaker 01 And when we were in high school, she had seizures. And they were dating at that time.
1:31:38 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:31:39 Speaker 01 And she got in this car accident because she had one. Hers were different, though. She had, like, she didn't have grandma seizures.
1:31:46 Dax Shepard? Were you about to say petite?
1:31:47 Speaker 01 Petite mall. That's what they're called.
1:31:49 Dax Shepard? That's so cute.
1:31:50 Speaker 01 And then she had
1:31:51 Dax Shepard? You picture like a mall, you'd walk in, but there's only three stores. And then there's the food court is like four food carts.
1:31:58 Speaker 01 They should call it boutique seizures.
1:32:00 Dax Shepard? That's way better.
1:32:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's cute.
1:32:02 Dax Shepard? You and Gundry can work on that.
1:32:05 Speaker 01 Anyway, yes, he has three.
1:32:09 Dax Shepard? There's a fourth. I mean, I only know of three people in his life and all three of them have seizures. So certainly, there's more. Should we get Robbie on the phone?
1:32:17 Speaker 01 Do you want to?
1:32:18 Dax Shepard? Yeah. We gotta grill him about this.
1:32:21 Speaker 01 I mean, he's definitely at work.
1:32:22 Dax Shepard? On Saturday?
1:32:23 Speaker 01 Oh, I forgot.
1:32:24 Dax Shepard? During an NFL playoff game? I'm so sorry, Georgia lost, by the way.
1:32:29 Speaker 01 Oh, no, the Sugar Bowl?
1:32:30 Dax Shepard? You didn't know that?
1:32:31 Speaker 01 They lost?
1:32:32 Dax Shepard? They lost.
1:32:33 Speaker 01 To who? Don't say Texas.
1:32:36 Dax Shepard? They didn't lose to Texas, but Texas won theirs. Texas is still in it.
1:32:39 Speaker 04 Notre Dame.
1:32:41 Speaker 01 But they're still in it because, oh, no.
1:32:43 Dax Shepard? That game we saw was one of our only two losses. They ended up being really
1:32:49 Speaker 01 I know, but they played
1:32:51 Dax Shepard? Welcome to the SEC, bitch. Is that what he said?
1:32:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, I did. Hold on, I gotta call Robbie. He's the one also that knows about all of this.
1:32:57 Dax Shepard? He's not at work. He's at the hospital, one of his Minneapolis.
1:33:00 Speaker 01 Don't say that. Knock on wood.
1:33:05 Speaker 07 Hello.
1:33:05 Speaker 01 Hey Robbie.
1:33:07 Speaker 07 Yeah.
1:33:07 Speaker 01 You're on Candid Camera. You are on.
1:33:11 Dax Shepard? Armed hair candid.
1:33:12 Speaker 01 You're on air.
1:33:14 Speaker 07 I'm on air.
1:33:15 Dax Shepard? And can you hear, do we have your consent and can you hear me?
1:33:18 Speaker 07 Yes, yes, yes to both, yes.
1:33:20 Dax Shepard? Okay, great.
1:33:21 Speaker 01 Well, we started, we wanted to call you about some, one thing, but now we have two things to talk to you about that are very important.
1:33:27 Dax Shepard? And we did not name any names, but I'm just learning of the fact that you have a second Indian friend with epilepsy, which I find to be almost statistically impossible. And then Monty said, it doesn't stop there. His wife has epilepsy.
1:33:41 Speaker 01 Well, she doesn't have, okay, not specific epilepsy, but you do have three people in your life that have had seizures. And it's, now we're starting to worry.
1:33:50 Dax Shepard? And think you're at the.
1:33:52 Speaker 07 Yeah, I see where you're going. I honestly hadn't ever thought of this.
1:33:57 Speaker 01 That's what, that's what he would say.
1:33:59 Dax Shepard? So my, I have some.
1:34:01 Speaker 07 Monica, my sister too.
1:34:02 Speaker 01 Oh my god!
1:34:05 Dax Shepard? I knew it! I said, I, Robbie, I said there's a fourth for sure.
1:34:09 Speaker 01 Fuck! Robbie!
1:34:11 Dax Shepard? What are you doing to everyone?
1:34:14 Speaker 07 I don't know. I really don't know. Oh my gosh. I'm starting to think that things in my life. I don't know.
1:34:20 Speaker 01 This is wild.
1:34:21 Dax Shepard? Do you think it's because you're so calm and sweet, it may, all of a sudden the other person's brain feels erratic and unhinged? Is it like, relative to your calmness, people short circuit?
1:34:32 Speaker 07 It could be. I mean, yeah, that's the best, I think that's the best we have to work on right now.
1:34:36 Speaker 01 My guess is Gina would say otherwise.
1:34:41 Speaker 01 But this is wild. Four, Robbie, four is a lot.
1:34:46 Dax Shepard? Now I mean sincere. It, is there something environmental in Duluth where half the population has had seizures?
1:34:54 Speaker 01 No, because mine happened once I left.
1:34:58 Dax Shepard? But you, you grew up with that water.
1:35:00 Speaker 01 Oh, you think it's the water?
1:35:01 Dax Shepard? Yeah, you have late onset.
1:35:04 Speaker 01 Because I didn't drink enough water and then it caught up.
1:35:08 Dax Shepard? I'm not, I'm not know about the logic of that, but what I'm saying is there's something in the soil where you grew up where 70% of all people have seizures.
1:35:17 Speaker 07 It's gotta be, Monica's house was super close to mine. The other friend also lived like right down the road too.
1:35:25 Speaker 01 And Gina.
1:35:26 Speaker 07 Yeah. Honestly, if you draw, if you draw like a polygon of the four points, it's like a very small area and so likely shared whatever water source. Yeah. It's pretty, pretty narrow there.
1:35:41 Speaker 01 You're right.
1:35:42 Dax Shepard? Guys, did we just break an enormous case? Do we need to call the New York Times immediately?
1:35:48 Speaker 01 Fuck.
1:35:49 Speaker 07 You're going to have to do a new podcast. You're going to start a new podcast where you're investigating this issue.
1:35:53 Speaker 01 Wow.
1:35:54 Dax Shepard? It's going to be called Poison Paradise. Under the veil of suburban beauty and tranquility.
1:36:00 Speaker 01 Oh my God.
1:36:01 Dax Shepard? Lies of burbling poison that results in shudders.
1:36:04 Speaker 01 That's a lot of words. That's a lot. That's too many words. You need it to be small, short.
1:36:08 Dax Shepard? No, no, first was the title and then I was, then I was, then I was entering into the first episode.
1:36:13 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:36:14 Speaker 07 You got going already. I mean, you're halfway there, it sounds like.
1:36:16 Dax Shepard? This thing writes itself.
1:36:18 Speaker 01 Okay, now we have, moving on to point number two, that's.
1:36:20 Dax Shepard? Well, no, I have one follow up on that, Robbie.
1:36:23 Speaker 07 Okay.
1:36:24 Dax Shepard? In your free time, which I know you don't have much of, just can you sniff around and see if any more folks have had seizures?
1:36:30 Speaker 07 Like, yeah.
1:36:31 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:36:31 Speaker 07 I will. Yeah, I'll report back. Yeah, I'll just, I'll start kind of casually throwing that into each conversation I have. Like, so by the way, you know, this is kind of weird, but do you have a history of epilepsy? And just kind of move on from there.
1:36:43 Speaker 01 Yeah. That sounds like a good plan.
1:36:45 Dax Shepard? That's gonna work.
1:36:47 Speaker 01 Okay, now point number two is football and you are my main source of information for football.
1:36:55 Speaker 01 I was texting you during the Texas Georgia game and we were, we were secretly gloating while I was amongst a bunch of Texans and then Dax just told me that then Texas went on to like win all the rest of the game.
1:37:08 Dax Shepard? They're still in it, yeah.
1:37:09 Speaker 07 They're still in it, yeah, so they, they have a tough matchup against Ohio State because Ohio State looks really good right now, but uh, yeah, they're still in it.
1:37:19 Speaker 01 But does that be like a fluke?
1:37:22 Dax Shepard? Shut up.
1:37:23 Speaker 07 Well, it can't be a fluke because the only team to beat Texas this year is Georgia. Georgia's beat Texas twice this year.
1:37:29 Speaker 01 Oh, twice. So, but it's then it's kind of a fluke that we aren't, like, it doesn't make sense that we beat them twice and we're now out.
1:37:38 Speaker 07 Yeah, you know how it's like, how can you, how can Federer be the best ever if you can't ever beat it all? You know? It's very similar.
1:37:46 Dax Shepard? We all have our albatrosses.
1:37:47 Speaker 07 Yeah, exactly.
1:37:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, alright, well, that clears that up, I guess.
1:37:53 Dax Shepard? And I just want to end on this, Robbie, your voice was built for radio. You must be involved in Poison Paradise.
1:38:01 Speaker 07 I'd love to help you, let me know. I'm a hard worker too, so yeah, just let me know what you need.
1:38:07 Dax Shepard? Alright.
1:38:08 Speaker 01 Thanks Robbie.
1:38:09 Speaker 07 Alright, thanks guys, take it easy.
1:38:12 Dax Shepard? Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. October 10th is World Mental Health Day, but you don't need a day on the calendar to give yourself permission to talk to someone. I've been in therapy for a long time and the stuff rattling around in my head always just quiets down the second I say it out loud. And it doesn't have to be some big life crisis, maybe it's a work thing that's taking up too much space or hard relationship moment, or just a feeling that something's off.
1:38:56 Dax Shepard? That's enough, that's worth talking about.
1:38:58 Speaker 01 You know, I love therapy more than anything, gets me through. Often I'll want to cancel because I'm like, I don't really have anything. To talk about and then I'll go and I have some major revelation.
1:39:10 Dax Shepard? You know, I was just talking to a friend who has just started it and I said, one of the most powerful elements of it is just hearing yourself say out loud, the thing that's been ruminating in your head and how different it sounds. Once it's out into the world, you gain perspective immediately just by hearing yourself say it.
1:39:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, you do.
1:39:25 Dax Shepard? If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or live outside the US? You can still get 10% off your first month. Do yourself a favor and just try it. Future you will be grateful. Visit betterhelp.com/dax to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com slash DAX.
1:39:59 Dax Shepard? That was a great use of time.
1:40:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:40:01 Dax Shepard? I wasn't expecting his voice to be that.
1:40:03 Speaker 01 He's a very handsome man. You know, I only have handsome and beautiful friends.
1:40:07 Dax Shepard? Right.
1:40:07 Speaker 01 This has started from day one.
1:40:09 Dax Shepard? Good for you.
1:40:10 Speaker 01 I know. Anywho.
1:40:12 Dax Shepard? Okay. Good luck to, will you plug your ears? Good luck to UT. Hook them.
1:40:19 Speaker 01 I'm cutting that.
1:40:20 Dax Shepard? This is the same as that story I told about the people flying to LA to watch the Red Sox play LA, hoping the Red Sox would lose because they had just beat New York. But the other guy was like, no, they must win. That way New York's number two. Wouldn't you want your team to have twice beat the champions?
1:40:36 Speaker 01 I guess you're right.
1:40:38 Dax Shepard? I think it's time for you to like transition into rooting for them for your own.
1:40:43 Speaker 01 For my own gain.
1:40:44 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:40:44 Speaker 01 Okay. I see that logic.
1:40:46 Dax Shepard? Speaking of which, and I know we're all over the map and have taken up too much time, but I just, I wanna, I wanna go on to say that I finished the Churchill documentary on the flight home yesterday and I got very swept up in it. This has happened a few times and I'm sure you've watched shows on this. When you are forced to watch what the Brits went through,
1:41:08 Dax Shepard? 57 nights in a row of carpet bombing of London, everyone sleeping in the subway, no bathrooms, getting up, going straight to work and carrying the fuck on. And they were so outgunned and outmanned and out everything. And they alone took on Nazi Germany at that point. Everyone was already defeated.
1:41:33 Dax Shepard? The amount of
1:41:36 Dax Shepard? will and resolve is so historic. I found myself like, this is so cheesy. I found myself being like really proud that I know Jethro.
1:41:49 Speaker 01 Oh, that's nice.
1:41:51 Dax Shepard? Yeah, I was like, by God, that little island, you motherfuckers refused.
1:41:56 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:41:56 Dax Shepard? And Churchill, he is a very flawed person. He was horrendous to India. I'll acknowledge that. But truly, one man got those people to that state of mind. If you watch this doc, you're like, who knows if that person doesn't exist, what happens? Because he had two burdens. One is to be fighting off these Nazis who are just bombing every single night. Trying to keep morale high. And he has got to get America into the war, or they're gonna die. Everyone's gonna die because they're not gonna surrender. And so his skill at wooing FDR and developing this relationship and slowly getting us more and more involved
1:42:39 Dax Shepard? is so impressive. And his own story is so unique in that he was a soldier during in his youth, and he was an incredible soldier. Then he went into politics and he was a boy wonder because he was right, the whole time he was in the war, he was also a reporter. So he was reporting firsthand from all these wars, and he's one of the best writers to ever live. So he was in this crazy, unique situation where he leaves the service as a hugely popular figure in Britain. Goes into politics, has this meteoric rise, and then plateaus, and then plummets. And he's completely on the outs, and he can't get anything done.
1:43:18 Dax Shepard? And then World War I comes along, and he decides in his 40s or 50s to rejoin the army. He becomes a commander. He wins all this glory, returns.
1:43:31 Dax Shepard? And for four years is begging Britain to understand Hitler cannot be trusted and don't believe a thing he's saying and we can't be signing these deals and no one's listening, no one's listening. He never relents. And finally, the Brits realize he has been right the whole time. And overnight, he becomes prime minister. Like, the story of the up and the down and the out and the miscast in the, it's, it's, what a story.
1:43:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:43:58 Dax Shepard? Horrible to the Indians. Let's be clear. A colonist, grew up in Elizabethan England, definitely wanted the empire to stay alive. Also miraculous feat of will and resolve in the poetry with how he motivated people. He gave this speech to our Congress to help us embrace the fact that we were entering the war and it's like the most incredible speech. It's an, I cannot recommend the doc enough.
1:44:23 Speaker 01 Wow.
1:44:24 Dax Shepard? I don't know why I went on that tangent, but it's been burning a hole in my brain.
1:44:36 Dax Shepard? I know, I'm making you nervous. My energy levels are 15.
1:44:39 Speaker 01 It's not, it's not making me nervous. It's, it's like.
1:44:42 Dax Shepard? Go ahead.
1:44:43 Speaker 01 No, it's just like, where's it going?
1:44:46 Dax Shepard? Oh, I'm just sharing all the things that I missed out on sharing in the last three weeks.
1:44:51 Speaker 01 God. You're, you're so much like my father.
1:44:55 Dax Shepard? I am.
1:44:57 Speaker 01 He just loves to explain stuff.
1:44:59 Dax Shepard? Yeah, it's kind of a male trait. But does that story, like, is there a male female thing going on? Is this the Roman Empire? Like, does that whole chapter just like not interest you?
1:45:12 Speaker 01 Parts do, but not that part.
1:45:15 Dax Shepard? Of an individual story where someone's like completely discarded and publicly reviled, then finds their way back, then becomes so valued and important, then gets discarded again, and then doesn't quit, like, has a calling.
1:45:32 Dax Shepard? That can't be ignored and then matched with this like Shakespearean ability to write speeches.
1:45:39 Speaker 01 Yeah. No, I I'm I'm more into like the Anne Frank story of that era. Like I I don't, I guess I'm I'm really not drawn deeply to people in power. Like I'm not, that's not a thing.
1:45:59 Dax Shepard? You're drawn to the disenfranchised.
1:46:00 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:46:01 Dax Shepard? This makes total sense.
1:46:02 Speaker 01 Well, I just find that way more as a as a human story way more compelling. I find that kind of overcoming, like a true overcoming, much more compelling.
1:46:17 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:46:18 Speaker 01 Than someone who's like just feeding off power.
1:46:23 Dax Shepard? I think the thing that interests me about it is as big as this world is and as complex and dynamic as it is, single individuals radically change the face of the world.
1:46:36 Speaker 01 Yes, I find that fascinating. Those figures, they don't do it for me.
1:46:40 Dax Shepard? Yeah, they don't. They don't get you going.
1:46:43 Speaker 01 I'm kind of like
1:46:46 Speaker 01 towards them, you know?
1:46:48 Dax Shepard? For the listener, she just kind of, it was an interesting one. It wasn't an eye roll. It was a back and forth, side to side.
1:46:53 Speaker 01 Speaking of.
1:46:54 Dax Shepard? Go ahead.
1:46:55 Speaker 01 Eye roll.
1:46:56 Dax Shepard? You found the origin of your.
1:46:58 Speaker 01 I figured it out. I figured out where my eye roll comes from. We thought it was an Indian thing.
1:47:06 Dax Shepard? Or just maybe a genetic innate thing.
1:47:08 Speaker 01 Thought it was maybe just a full resentment I have of everything and everyone. We didn't know, but I knew that's not right. That's not it. It's a habit, but why? And now I know.
1:47:20 Dax Shepard? Right. Well, you sent it to me, so I saw it.
1:47:22 Speaker 01 Well, I'm gonna show the world.
1:47:23 Dax Shepard? The world, show the world. And I'm gonna have to describe for the listener because let's just be, let's be clear. Ninety eight percent of our audience is still just listening, not watching.
1:47:31 Speaker 01 Check us out on YouTube and you can see this.
1:47:33 Dax Shepard? Yes, please do. Alright, so for the listener, it is a two or three year old Mary Kay and or Ashley Olson from the Full House program. It says duh across the screen. She's shaking her head and she gives the most expressive eye roll you've ever seen.
1:47:50 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:47:51 Dax Shepard? And she has, or they have enormous Disney eyeballs where it's very expressive and clear.
1:47:57 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:47:58 Dax Shepard? Yes.
1:47:59 Speaker 01 We got it?
1:48:01 Dax Shepard? We got it.
1:48:02 Speaker 01 All right. Now, I, Full House was my original friends.
1:48:06 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:48:06 Speaker 01 I was obsessed with it. The only time I was ever punished for my parents, the punishment was I couldn't watch Full House that night. That's in my cells.
1:48:14 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:48:15 Speaker 01 That's where I got it. I got it from original Mary-Kate and Ashley Full House.
1:48:19 Dax Shepard? You started probably reenacting it.
1:48:22 Speaker 01 Always.
1:48:23 Dax Shepard? Yeah, aping it.
1:48:24 Speaker 01 Yeah, mimicking. They were my models then and now.
1:48:28 Dax Shepard? Yeah. It might be all the way though, the end.
1:48:31 Speaker 01 I think it is.
1:48:32 Dax Shepard? They might be your Erin Weekly. I mean, you already have your Erin Weekly.
1:48:35 Speaker 01 Yeah. I think it would be sad if they're my Erin Weekly because they don't know me. But, um, but they are my ride or die.
1:48:43 Dax Shepard? What I'll say is they're radically different people, which is so fascinating.
1:48:47 Speaker 01 Yeah. I guess that makes sense, but also doesn't make sense. Well, they're not identical twins. You know that, right?
1:48:55 Dax Shepard? They have to be. Baloney.
1:48:58 Speaker 01 They're fraternal twins.
1:49:00 Dax Shepard? No. Well, sisters have never looked that much alike.
1:49:05 Speaker 01 It's crazy.
1:49:06 Dax Shepard? Do we know this for positive?
1:49:09 Speaker 04 AI Google says that.
1:49:11 Speaker 01 Thank you. I've, I know. I know.
1:49:14 Dax Shepard? They're not?
1:49:15 Speaker 01 That's like me saying I know something about Valentino Rossi.
1:49:19 Dax Shepard? Ooh, tell me, what do you know?
1:49:20 Speaker 01 I know nothing.
1:49:21 Dax Shepard? Yellow 46?
1:49:23 Speaker 01 Exactly. It's the whole point. Anyway.
1:49:25 Dax Shepard? I'm impressed you remembered his name.
1:49:26 Speaker 01 Thank you. So, yeah.
1:49:28 Speaker 04 One's left, one's left-handed, one's right-handed.
1:49:31 Dax Shepard? But that's super common in twins.
1:49:33 Speaker 04 And one's one inch taller than the other.
1:49:35 Dax Shepard? Even when they're identical.
1:49:37 Speaker 01 Well, they're fraternal.
1:49:38 Dax Shepard? But that could be a posture thing.
1:49:40 Speaker 01 Okay, whatever.
1:49:41 Dax Shepard? All right, let's stop.
1:49:41 Speaker 01 They're fraternal twins.
1:49:43 Dax Shepard? I believe you.
1:49:43 Speaker 01 And, um.
1:49:45 Dax Shepard? You'd never know it by looking at them. Don't judge a book by its cover.
1:49:48 Speaker 01 You would not. I mean, I agree with you. It's shocking.
1:49:51 Dax Shepard? Yeah. I've met a lot of boy-girl twins and they have all told, they have all had the experience where someone asked if their twin was identical, even though they knew one was a boy, one was a girl.
1:50:03 Speaker 01 What?
1:50:03 Dax Shepard? Yes. I'm telling you.
1:50:05 Speaker 01 Okay. Well, some people don't understand twins.
1:50:10 Speaker 01 They don't understand what identical means versus fraternal.
1:50:13 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:50:13 Speaker 01 They must not, or...
1:50:15 Dax Shepard? It must be way lower percentage that you get a boy and a girl than same gendered twins.
1:50:22 Speaker 01 For fraternal?
1:50:22 Dax Shepard? For fraternal.
1:50:23 Speaker 01 I think the opposite.
1:50:24 Dax Shepard? Oh, you do?
1:50:25 Speaker 01 I feel like if most fraternal twins I know are boy and girl.
1:50:30 Dax Shepard? Oh, really?
1:50:30 Speaker 01 That's why, that's why they are very confusing.
1:50:33 Dax Shepard? We should have a twins expert on.
1:50:35 Speaker 01 Yes.
1:50:35 Dax Shepard? Because what that means is that there were two over in the uterus and that one male sperm and one female sperm hit the two. And generally, you would think, well, either the males were making it because they swim slower and they're more robust, or vice versa. And one swam fast. So it's weird that one would swim fast, but you know what I'm saying? I don't know.
1:50:55 Speaker 01 The body is a wonderland.
1:50:56 Dax Shepard? It is a wonderland.
1:50:57 Speaker 01 John Mayer.
1:50:57 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:50:58 Speaker 01 All right, let's do a little bit of facts. This is for Ken Goldberg. He was wonderful. I really, really liked him.
1:51:04 Dax Shepard? Yeah, what a unicorn.
1:51:06 Speaker 01 A lot. Okay, now, this episode starts with your underwear on the floor.
1:51:12 Dax Shepard? Which was interesting.
1:51:13 Speaker 01 That was shocking.
1:51:15 Dax Shepard? That's an experience to look down in your underwears outside your pants, because your first thought is, my underwear.
1:51:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:51:22 Dax Shepard? Came off my...
1:51:22 Speaker 01 Flipped off, yeah.
1:51:24 Dax Shepard? Yes, and it doesn't seem to be torn in half.
1:51:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:51:26 Dax Shepard? That's a real, like, where am I at in time and space that my underwear has made itself off of my body and onto the floor?
1:51:33 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:51:34 Dax Shepard? I mean, it's so obvious later when you think, it was clearly in my pant leg.
1:51:37 Speaker 01 I know, but in the moment, you can't think straight.
1:51:40 Dax Shepard? My underwear is falling off. It's like in I Think You Should Leave, when Robinson, they put a whoopee cushion on his chair and he doesn't understand it. He goes, what happened? Like, he really is shook, because he didn't feel himself fart, but he heard a fart. What happened?
1:51:57 Speaker 01 Oh, my God, that's so funny. Okay, but also, so that happened, the underwear. But then I realized, when I was editing it, my, the inside out of my pant pocket.
1:52:07 Dax Shepard? Was exposed?
1:52:08 Speaker 01 Was exposed the whole time.
1:52:10 Dax Shepard? That's a weird coincidence.
1:52:12 Speaker 01 It is weird, and, but no one caught that. So the whole episode, the inside of my pant pocket is out.
1:52:18 Dax Shepard? Which people could have thought might be her underwear. Like, you know it's the lining of your pocket, but other people could be like, why are there, why are both of their underwears falling off?
1:52:30 Speaker 01 Now, the vaccination mark. The smallpox vaccine scar is a small mark you might have on your upper arm if you receive the Dryvax or ACAM 2000 smallpox vaccines. It's a sign that the vaccine successfully spurred an immune response in your body to protect you against smallpox. Not many people receive a smallpox vaccine today, so the scar is far less common than it used to be. The smallpox vaccine leaves a scar because it causes a minor infection in your skin. Your body fights off the infection, but this process leaves behind a small mark on your skin where the infection and related inflammation took place.
1:53:07 Dax Shepard? That makes a lot of sense. I assumed wrongly now that it had something to do with the mechanism of injecting it. Like, did they use some weird thing? Because, again, my dad's was, I have such a good memory of my dad's. I don't know that my mom has one, weirdly. But my dad's is like seared in my brain. And I was like, it looked like, I think I said, a cigar. Like, they administered it with a burning cigar.
1:53:30 Speaker 01 You can look at pictures online. They have them. And they do look like that. Okay, the book, the scientific management book that was influential on Stalin is called The Principles of Scientific Management by Frederick Taylor.
1:53:41 Dax Shepard? See, this all paid off, my diatribe on Churchill, because Stalin was the trickiest figure in that triumvirate.
1:53:48 Speaker 01 Okay. Now, so Kim Kardashian posted some pictures with the Optimus robot. And then, and it said that Elon gave it to her. And she denies that she was paid for those pictures.
1:54:03 Dax Shepard? Okay. Other than the free robot?
1:54:06 Speaker 01 Right.
1:54:07 Dax Shepard? That she may or may not have.
1:54:08 Speaker 01 Right.
1:54:09 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:54:10 Speaker 01 This is what it says the robot can do. The Tesla Optimus robot. Okay, it says it can do physical labor. It says it can move materials, assemble parts, and load items onto machinery.
1:54:27 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:54:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm skeptical.
1:54:29 Dax Shepard? I'm skeptical. That's how we do it without getting sued. I'm highly skeptical.
1:54:33 Speaker 01 This is also on the AI overview. So they like their buddies.
1:54:36 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:54:37 Speaker 01 So he's.
1:54:38 Dax Shepard? They're all in cahoots.
1:54:39 Speaker 01 Yeah. Inventory management. Optimus can use barcode or RFID scanning to track inventory in real time. Home chores. Optimus can carry groceries, help the elderly. And perform other home tasks.
1:54:55 Dax Shepard? Helped elderly.
1:54:56 Speaker 01 I mean, that would be good. Data collection and research. Optimus can be used in labs or remote monitoring environments to collect data. I mean, that's just like.
1:55:05 Dax Shepard? That's a computer.
1:55:06 Speaker 01 Yeah. Smart home integration. Optimus can link up with Tesla cars and energy systems to become part of a smart home. Optimus can walk among people and serve drinks at a bar.
1:55:17 Dax Shepard? I doubt it, but I'm sorry, I'm skeptical.
1:55:19 Speaker 01 Heard about that. Okay, apparently there's a place in like Culver City or something that is run by, it's like a burger place that is run by robots and the robots drop off your food.
1:55:30 Dax Shepard? Okay, I think I've heard that, but also my assumption of what that was was like very simple mechanized arms, not bipedal robots walking about. Like it can make it in the kitchen and it goes on a conveyor belt and then it's exactly lands in front of your thing. Doesn't necessarily mean that a bipedal robot carried it as much as there might be automation that gets it all the way to your.
1:55:51 Speaker 01 I think it's saying it delivers it to your table, but it might not be bipedal.
1:55:55 Dax Shepard? We should go.
1:55:57 Speaker 01 We should go.
1:55:58 Dax Shepard? I'd love to go to a robot restaurant. What is it?
1:56:00 Speaker 04 Cali Express in Pasadena.
1:56:02 Dax Shepard? Oh, it's in Pasadena. That's much closer.
1:56:04 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:56:04 Dax Shepard? That's just up the odds of us actually doing that by a lot.
1:56:07 Speaker 04 I do think there's a little, a little guy that rides around and brings you your food.
1:56:12 Dax Shepard? Hello.
1:56:12 Speaker 01 Cali Express by Flippy, the world's first fully autonomous restaurant. Grill and fry stations are automated.
1:56:21 Speaker 04 It looks like a little thing with serving trays and American flags that goes to your table.
1:56:25 Speaker 01 We'll have to go. But okay, it says Optimus can perform precise movements and heavy lifting. Optimus can adapt its behavior over time to reach the desired results. Optimus can play games like rock, paper, scissors.
1:56:40 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:56:41 Speaker 01 So, anyway, that's what AI claims its buddy Optimus can do.
1:56:47 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:56:48 Speaker 01 They're best friends.
1:56:49 Dax Shepard? Okay.
1:56:50 Speaker 01 And our robot feels a little left out.
1:56:52 Dax Shepard? No, he's more boylike, remember?
1:56:54 Speaker 01 I know.
1:56:54 Dax Shepard? Big time glass half full.
1:56:55 Speaker 01 He's wondering what's going on, because like, there's a lot of other robots now.
1:56:59 Dax Shepard? There are a lot of other robots.
1:57:02 Dax Shepard? But he's like becoming charming and flawed. Wabu sabi.
1:57:07 Speaker 01 Wabi sabi.
1:57:07 Dax Shepard? Wabi sabi, robi sabi.
1:57:09 Speaker 01 Robbie rob sabi. There was, uh, Prada has these bag chains that I really want, that are robots.
1:57:20 Dax Shepard? Um, bag trash? Is that what it's called?
1:57:24 Speaker 01 No, it's a bag chain.
1:57:26 Dax Shepard? I'm learning this from Nicole. This is the movement now, is like you have these very fancy handbags and then you put all these little trinkets that
1:57:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah.
1:57:33 Dax Shepard? far off the side, and I think she calls it like bag trash or something.
1:57:36 Speaker 01 Oh, she might, but they're called bag charms. And look, Prada has this one, this one's in like, um, this one's in like, snow gear.
1:57:48 Dax Shepard? Yeah, that's really cute.
1:57:49 Speaker 01 Isn't it?
1:57:50 Dax Shepard? Yeah, I was about to be critical, I just think it's funny, fashion is very funny.
1:57:54 Speaker 01 Sure.
1:57:54 Dax Shepard? So you get this perfect outrageously expensive bag and then you're supposed to like, dr- uh, drape some trash, obviously like downplay it, it's like, what's happening?
1:58:02 Speaker 01 I agree, I, but it's not trash, this is eleven hundred dollars.
1:58:06 Dax Shepard? Well, I don't, I didn't say it was inexpensive.
1:58:08 Speaker 01 Oh.
1:58:08 Dax Shepard? Yeah.
1:58:08 Speaker 01 Well, okay, but I agree, I would not put, uh, people love bag charms and I think that's great and it's a way to like, show your identity, but they're not for me on my bag, but I want this little robot to just like, sit in my house.
1:58:22 Dax Shepard? Yeah, yeah, that's great.
1:58:23 Speaker 01 Yeah, he's pretty big, look at him compared to the bag.
1:58:26 Dax Shepard? Oh, that's preposterous, he's larger than the bag.
1:58:29 Speaker 01 Yeah. You said thirty-nine percent of US jobs are still manual labor. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, reported that thirty-nine point one percent of civilian workforce in the US performs physically demanding jobs that require lifting, carrying, pushing, pulling, kneeling, stooping, crawling, and climbing activities in varied environmental conditions.
1:58:48 Dax Shepard? Sucking, fucking, don't leave out sex workers, that's manual labor.
1:58:53 Dax Shepard? No, we like, don't we honor sex workers?
1:58:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, but I'm just wondering, is it really manual, yeah?
1:58:58 Dax Shepard? It's definitely manual.
1:58:59 Speaker 01 It's laborious.
1:59:03 Speaker 01 All right. Well, that's it for Ken.
1:59:06 Dax Shepard? I'm glad we ended on that note for Ken. I think he would appreciate that.
1:59:10 Speaker 01 Bye, Ken.
1:59:11 Dax Shepard? Love you.
1:59:12 Speaker 01 Love you.
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