JFK's Assassination and the CIA's Psychic Cold War

-Upgrade your everyday at https://quince.com/thewhyfiles for free shipping and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK. -Try QUO for free and get 20% off your first 6 months at https://quo.com/why -Visit https://betterhelp.com/whyfiles #ad -Discover how to move your IRA or 401k into physical gold and silver — with no taxes or penalties. Get your free portfolio review and free gold & silver guide from GoldenCrest Metals: visit https://GoldenCrestMetals.com/thewhyfiles or call (888) 949-9172 now. In 1952, nine of America's wealthiest families gathered in a Maine mansion for a séance. Nine ancient gods spoke through a medium and chose nine people to change the world. Eleven years later, the CIA officer who ran that séance's donor list sent a Russian aristocrat to befriend a troubled ex-Marine named Lee Harvey Oswald. That aristocrat introduced Oswald's wife to a woman named Ruth Paine. Every piece of evidence against Oswald, the rifle, the photos, the testimony, ran through Ruth Paine's garage. A spy camera vanished from police custody. A Warren Commissioner's mistress was best friends with a woman at that séance. The connections are documented. The conclusions are yours to draw. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip: the Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone.

• 0:24AJ Gentile?

  On March 29, 1977, George de Mornchil told a journalist that his close friendship with Lee Harvey Oswald was an assignment from the CIA Dallas office. Congress sent an investigator to take a statement. When he got to the House, George's family said he wasn't home. But he was. He was in his bedroom, dead from a shotgun wound. That nobody heard. But the story doesn't start in 1977, and it doesn't start in Dallas. It starts in 1952 in a mansion in Maine, where America's wealthiest families held a seance and nine people were chosen by ancient gods to change the world. And on November 22, 1963, they did.

• 1:12AJ Gentile?

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• 1:57AJ Gentile?

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• 2:36AJ Gentile?

  In 1948, the Cold War got weird. There was the space race, the arms race, and the psychic race. Rumors out of Moscow said Soviet scientists were testing telepathy in labs. If mine could be a weapon, American intelligence wanted one. But there was a problem. No respectable scientist would touch the subject, and Congress was never going to fund seances, at least not publicly. The psychic race needed a man willing to bet his career on it. That man was a 30-year-old doctor from Chicago named Andria Pourich. The Army put Pourich through medical school at Northwestern during the war. While he was still a student, Pourich published a theory that his colleagues wouldn't go near. He believed the human brain was a radio. Neurons didn't just fire, they transmitted. And anything that could transmit could also receive.

• 3:21AJ Gentile?

  If he was right, telepathy wasn't magic, it was biology. And Pourich wanted to prove it. He rented a 45-room mansion in Glencoe, Maine, and started building. He converted one of the rooms into a Faraday cage, a chamber wrapped in copper screen that blocks radio waves and electricity. If the brain is a radio, you test it like a radio: put a psychic inside a room that no signal could penetrate and see what still gets through. He called the project "the Round Table Foundation of Electrobiology." So the program had a name, a facility, and a testing protocol. The only thing Pourich was missing was money. He needed private funding.

• 3:57Speaker 02

  Private funding? That reminds me. I need to launch the Kickstarter for my vasectomy.

• 4:03AJ Gentile?

  Just why? You want me to have the cat eat you?

• 4:05Speaker 02

  Reward tears. Reward tears. For $10, you can hold the camera. For $50, you can hold the scissors. For $100, you can hold me.

• 4:14AJ Gentile?

  I'll give you $500 to never talk about this again.

• 4:16Speaker 02

  $200.

• 4:17AJ Gentile?

  Done. The first check came from Alice Astor Bouvry. Her father was the richest man on the Titanic. He went down with the ship in 1912, and Alice inherited a fortune and an obsession with the afterlife. After that, the donator list read like a who's who of American wealth and power: business tycoons, heiresses, and of course, politicians. Henry Wallace, Franklin Roosevelt's former vice president, he cut a check. These people sat on corporate boards, advised the White House, and had some ties to the OSS, which became the CIA. Pourich tested mediums and clairvoyance from around the world, and most of them disappointed him. Then the Indian philosopher D.G. Vinod took Pourich's right ring finger, held it for a minute, and whistled softly.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  He held the guy's finger for a full minute. Pull my finger, it's a two-second transaction. Anything longer, you're dating.

• 5:04AJ Gentile?

  That's not what this was.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  He pulled his finger and heard whistling "hello."

• 5:09AJ Gentile?

  Vinod spent the next hour describing private events from Pourich's life in perfect detail. The Round Table was now in business. And on New Year's Eve, 1952, Vinod laid down inside the testing room. At 9 o'clock, Vinod started talking. It was Vinod's voice, but the words weren't his. The words came from nine ancient Egyptian gods, and Pourich recorded everything.

• 5:38AJ Gentile?

  The voice was slow and deliberate, nothing like Vinod's.

• 5:44Speaker 03

  We are nine principles and forces. Personalities, if you will.

• 5:50AJ Gentile?

  The voice called itself the Great Indian, the nine gods of Heliopolis worshipped in Egypt for 3,000 years before Christ. And they said they weren't a myth. They were real and physical. And they weren't gods. They were alien minds on a spacecraft watching Earth.

• 6:06AJ Gentile?

  The nine said they controlled the universe and guided all of human history, but they worked through influence, not miracles. A person met someone at the right time. A door opened. A decision looked ordinary until years later, when the pattern became visible. Vinod came out of the trance with no memory of what happened. But Pourich had dozens of pages of notes, including physics equations that didn't make sense, at least not to him. But he didn't have much time to study his notes because six weeks later, the United States Army recalled Pourich to active duty. He went to Edgewood Arsenal in Maryland, where the military tested hypnosis, LSD, and mescaline on soldiers. His orders were to find a drug that enhanced extrasensory perception, psychic research, and mind control, funded by the US military.

• 6:50AJ Gentile?

  That summer, he went back to Maine on leave. And on June 27, 1953, under a full moon, he gathered nine people at the mansion, one for each of the nine gods. And he picked these people carefully. Eight were wealthy and connected. Pourich took the ninth chair for himself. Vinod sat in the middle. At midnight, the nine returned. And this time, they came with a mission. They said the nine people at the table were chosen to transform human civilization, that in answer to any religion or government, they answered to something much older and much more powerful. Then the cotton threads appeared. Nine threads on the floor, three feet from Vinod. Nobody saw where they came from.

• 7:27Speaker 02

  They should have checked his belly button.

• 7:30AJ Gentile?

  Whose?

• 7:31Speaker 02

  The magic guy. What's his name? Gonnad?

• 7:33AJ Gentile?

  Vinod.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Ribbon rod?

• 7:35AJ Gentile?

  Vinod.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  Whatever it is. My money's still on belly button.

• 7:40AJ Gentile?

  There was one thread for each person at the table, identical to the sacred thread Hindu Brahmins receive at initiation. The nine chosen ones picked up the threads and accepted the assignment.

• 7:51AJ Gentile?

  Nobody outside that room would have believed a word of it. Pourich barely believed it. But three years later, a stranger a thousand miles away sent him a letter that proved the nine were real.

• 8:07AJ Gentile?

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• 8:52AJ Gentile?

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• 9:17AJ Gentile?

  After the session, Vinod returned to India, and the Nine went quiet. When the money ran out, Poorrich went to Mexico looking for sacred mushrooms to open his mind.

• 9:25Speaker 02

  Ah, the classic wellness retreat. My Uncle Irving took the same trip in '74. Left as an accountant, came back as a rainstick guy. Yeah, I can still smell the patchouli. And let me tell you, Uncle Irving looked terrible in a fish bun.

• 9:38AJ Gentile?

  At the hotel, Poorrich's room was accidentally given to an American couple from Michigan, Dr. Charles Lockheed and his wife. Poorrich met them. Lockheed said they were contactees. Space intelligences spoke through them. These were Poorrich's kind of people, so they kept in touch. A month after Poorrich came home, a letter from Lockheed arrived. It described a young Arizona contactee, George Hunt Williamson. No connection to Maine, no connection to Poorrich. He never heard of the Round Table. But somehow Williamson received the same transmission from the Nine on the same nights in 1952 and 1953. Poorrich still had his doubts, but then he got to the last page. The letter contained the Einstein-Lorentz transformation, the physics equation that describes how time and space distort

• 10:23AJ Gentile?

  near the speed of light. Poorrich recognized it. The Nine spoke the same equation through Vinod. Nobody outside that copper room could have known this. The Nine broadcast the same message to receivers separated by 1,000 miles through people who never met. After that, Poorrich stopped doubting. He spent the rest of his life following the instructions from that room. But the Nine were silent. Poorrich searched for another channel, but every medium he tested came up empty. It took 15 years, but the Nine finally found a vessel worthy of delivering their message: a 24-year-old Israeli paratrooper who could bend spoons with his mind.

• 11:04Speaker 00

  Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip: the Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone.

• 11:34AJ Gentile?

  The call came from Israel. Yuri Geller claimed he could read minds and influence events. He said he could bend metal and stop clocks. Poorrich was skeptical, but witnesses said Geller was the real deal. So Poorrich flew to Tel Aviv to watch him work. Soon after that, both men were on a plane to America. At his estate in Austin, New York, Poorrich launched Operation Lab 9. He built another Faraday cage, had a new medium, and once again asked to speak to the ancient astronaut gods. And this time, they answered. But a different voice came through Geller. It called itself Spectra, a superintelligence aboard a spacecraft 53,000 light-years away. It was still the Nine, but using a new name, and it had new instructions. To complete this new mission, Poorrich knew he needed help, so he took Geller

• 12:19AJ Gentile?

  to the Stanford Research Institute in California, the infamous SRI. Two physicists, Russell Targ and Harold Puthoff, were also experimenting with psychics, specifically remote viewers. SRI was recruiting and training people who project their consciousness anywhere on Earth and beyond. Some of their most talented subjects could even see through time. The first experiments were easier than sending your consciousness to Mars. The subject was given a sealed envelope and asked to draw what was inside. The experiments were conducted in a shielded room, similar to a Faraday cage. Over seven days in August 1973, Geller made drawing after drawing. One envelope had a picture of grapes, 24 of them. Geller drew 24 grapes. Another image was the solar system.

• 13:04AJ Gentile?

  Geller drew that, too. Geller got 10 in a row, impossible odds, witnessed by trained scientists. In October 1974, Targ and Puthoff published their experiments in Nature. This highly respected, peer-reviewed journal printed evidence that minds could see through walls. The CIA noticed. They launched a secret program that eventually became Stargate. And for over 20 years, Stargate trained the CIA's psychic spies. And back at Lab 9, the guest list grew. Scientists from SRI, wealthy elites, politicians, even European nobility showed up using fake names. And one of those wealthy elites was British businessman John Whitmore. Whitmore was so impressed with Poorrich that he wanted to make a movie about the Nine. So they brought in an out-of-work TV writer, Gene Roddenberry.

• 13:49AJ Gentile?

  Gene Roddenberry wasn't impressed. He thought the psychics were making it all up. But something must have stuck with him. Because years later, in Deep Space Nine, there's a character named Vinod. The episode is about a cult leader who is protected by a small inner circle.

• 14:04Speaker 02

  Season 2, episode 15, Paradise. The cult leader champs everyone's technology so nobody could leave the planet.

• 14:10AJ Gentile?

  You know the episode number?

• 14:12Speaker 02

  Human, I've seen every episode of Star Trek ever. Except the one where they whale, not the whale. Star Trek went down a dark alley, and I could not follow.

• 14:21AJ Gentile?

  Whether Poorrich was a cult leader could be debated. But he had an inner circle, and they kept receiving instructions from the Nine: Prepare humanity. Get the right people in place. The transformation is coming.

• 14:35AJ Gentile?

  One member of the inner circle was Ruth Forbes Panyang. That Forbes. She was also the great-granddaughter of Ralph Waldo Emerson. Her husband, Arthur Young, made his own fortune when he invented the bell helicopter. In February 1963, their son, Michael Payne, was at a dinner party with his wife, also named Ruth. At that party, they became friends with a Russian housewife who spoke almost no English, Marina Oswald. The Pains didn't know it at the time, but seven months later, Marina's husband would be sneaking around their garage hiding a rifle.

• 15:12AJ Gentile?

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• 15:56AJ Gentile?

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• 16:20AJ Gentile?

  Before that dinner party could happen, someone had to bring Marina Oswald into that room. In the summer of 1962, Lee Harvey Oswald returned to Texas with a Russian wife, a baby daughter, and a problem. He spent nearly three years in the Soviet Union and announced he wanted to give up his American citizenship. And then he changed his mind. The Russian-speaking community in Dallas helped the family at first, but Oswald wore them out with his temper and his politics. One by one, they walked away. But not George de Mornshild. He was a Russian-born aristocrat who became a Texas oil man. He moved in the same wealthy social and diplomatic circles as the Drexels, the Morgans, the Bouviers, and the Kennedys. He also had friends in the US government, specifically the intelligence community. J. Walton Moore was an officer

• 17:04AJ Gentile?

  in the CIA's Domestic Contacts Division. They collected information on Americans overseas. After every foreign trip, George sat down with Moore and told him what he saw. In 1962, Moore brought him an assignment: an ex-Marine living in Fort Worth, just back from the Soviet Union. He was perfect for the job. He grew up in Minsk, and Oswald had lived in Minsk for years. Of every man in Dallas, only one can sit across from Lee Oswald and talk about Lenin Avenue stretching to Victory Square, about the river, about the smell of popcorn at the circus. George was actually eager to chat with someone from his hometown, but he wouldn't risk his business or his reputation. Moore said both would be fine. In fact, there was a juicy oil contract in Haiti that could land his way if he helped out the agency.

• 17:49AJ Gentile?

  So George de Mornshild, with fresh orders to make a new friend, drove to Fort Worth. And for about six months, he ran Oswald's life. He drove him to job interviews. He helped the family find housing. He even stepped into arguments when Lee got violent. And Lee listened to George. On paper, the friendship made no sense. George de Mornshild dined with senators and oil executives. Lee Oswald worked a factory job in Red Marks during lunch. But the friendship was real. George liked him. He told people he felt sorry for Lee. He was bright, bitter, and in over his head. He stayed close until February 22, 1963, when he brought the Oswalds to a small party in Dallas. One of the guests was Ruth Paine, a separated mother who studied Russian. Marina needed someone to talk to,

• 18:33AJ Gentile?

  and Ruth wanted someone to practice with. By the end of the evening, they exchanged phone numbers. That spring, George de Mornshild left for Haiti and never saw Lee Harvey Oswald again. But he didn't need to. His mission was complete. The CIA's men in Dallas made one introduction, and it was the only one that mattered. The only thing left to do now was wait and watch history unfold.

• 18:58Speaker 04

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• 19:33AJ Gentile?

  The rifle started in a Chicago mail order warehouse. It ended in a garage in Irving, Texas, wrapped in a blanket tucked behind camping equipment. Between those two points, a chain of introductions ran through one family. Ruth Paine was separated from her husband, Michael, who still paid the mortgage on the house in Irving. Michael worked as a research engineer at Bell Helicopter in Fort Worth. He also held a security clearance. His mother was Ruth Forbes Payne Young, the woman who accepted a cotton thread at a séance in Maine. His stepfather was Arthur Young, the man who designed the Bell helicopter and signed the checks for Puridge's research. In September 1963, Ruth Paine packed her station wagon and drove east on a two-week trip to visit family. One of her stops was her sister Sylvia's house in Falls Church, Virginia.

• 20:18AJ Gentile?

  Falls Church is next door to Langley, and Sylvia worked for the CIA. Then Ruth swung south to New Orleans, where the Oswalds were coming apart. Lee was out of work, and Marina was pregnant with her second child. Ruth made her an offer: Come live with me in Irving until the baby comes. Marina said yes and moved in permanently, but Lee stayed behind. He only came out on weekends. By that fall, he had almost nothing. His wife and children moved out. He lived in a rented room. He was almost broke. The one thing he owned was wrapped in a blanket in the Paine' garage in Irving. Michael Payne thought it was camping gear. By October, Lee needed work. Ruth made a few phone calls and helped Lee get a job as a warehouse clerk in Dallas.

• 21:01AJ Gentile?

  His first day at the Texas School Book Depository was October 16th. That same morning, he was offered a job with an airline. Better work, better pay. He kept the warehouse job at Dealey Plaza. When Kennedy came to Dallas for a motorcade, his route was unknown to the public until November 19th. Lee Oswald had already been at the depository for over a month. On the evening of Thursday, November 21st, Oswald came out to Irving a day early. Marina was surprised, and not in a good way. He played with his daughters outside until dark. Then, three times that night, Lee begged her to move back to Dallas. She said no, three times. He went to bed angry. In the morning, he asked her for a kiss, and she turned away. Then, Lee Harvey Oswald was gone.

• 21:44AJ Gentile?

  He left his wedding ring on the dresser, and he never took that ring off, not in two and a half years of marriage. He left $170 in cash, almost everything he had. He did not leave a note. He walked into work carrying a long paper package. A coworker asked what was inside. Oswald said it was curtain rods. It wasn't curtain rods. Let's talk about the number the Fed doesn't want you to say out loud. PCE inflation just came in at 4.1%.

• 22:28AJ Gentile?

  That's double their own 2% target, a target they'd now missed five years in a row. And here's the part of that that should really get your attention. The Fed's own projection says we don't get back to 2% until 2028. That's three more years of your dollar buying less than it does today. You're already feeling it. Grocery bills are up 32% since 2020. Retirees have lost 26% of their purchasing power. And if your 401K isn't up 30% or more in real terms, you're not gaining, you're going backwards. And it doesn't stop there. The next wave of inflation is already in the pipeline. Here's the thing: Gold and silver were never really a bet on inflation. They're insurance against the currency that's losing value on purpose.

• 23:09AJ Gentile?

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• 23:51AJ Gentile?

  At 12:29 on November 22nd, 1963, the presidential motorcade turned from Houston onto Elm Street in Dealey Plaza. Kennedy sat in the back of an open-top Lincoln waving. At 12:30, the shots came. Three rounds. Kennedy slept over. Governor Connally collapsed in the seat ahead of him. The limousine raced to Parkland Hospital, where doctors pronounced the president dead at 1 o'clock. On the sixth floor of the depository, police found three spent shells, a cardboard box near the window, and a long, empty paper bag. And hidden near the stairwell, a bolt-action 6.5 Carcano rifle that traced directly to Lee Harvey Oswald. And you know the rest of the story. Forty-five minutes later, Officer J.D.

• 24:36AJ Gentile?

  Tippett was shot dead on a sidewalk in Oak Cliff. Police arrested Oswald at the Texas Theater. Two days later, in the basement of Dallas Police Headquarters, a strip club owner named Jack Ruby stepped out of a crowd and shot Oswald on live television. Oswald died at Parkland Hospital. There was no trial, no cross-examination, not one word of testimony from Oswald. But there didn't need to be. He was the shooter, the lone gunman, and that was the end of it. But a murdered president and a murdered suspect left the country full of questions. So, seven days after Dallas, President Lyndon Johnson appointed a commission of seven men to answer those questions, chaired by the Chief Justice of the United States, Earl Warren. The press called it the Warren Commission.

• 25:20AJ Gentile?

  For 10 months, the commission took testimony from hundreds of witnesses. In September 1964, it published its answer, an 888-page report backed by 26 volumes of evidence and one conclusion: Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. Case closed, officially. Except the case never closed for the American people. Instead, the questions got louder. Within a few years, most Americans didn't believe the official story, and people spent decades digging into details that the commission ignored. What they found always led back to one house: Michael and Ruth Paine. Marina lived with the Paynes. Oswald was there every weekend. He was there the night before the murder. The murder weapon was in their house.

• 26:04AJ Gentile?

  Nobody was closer to the Oswald family than the Paynes. Ruth Paine became the commission's most valuable civilian witness. She testified longer than almost anyone, and she translated for Marina, who still spoke very little English. Her translations were the backbone of the official story of who Lee Oswald was and what he intended to do that day. The backyard photos, Oswald posing with the rifle and his Marxist newspapers, they came out of Ruth Paine's garage with the rest of the family's belongings. The rifle came out of that same garage. And so did one piece of evidence almost nobody talks about. When Dallas police searched the Paynes' house, Detective Gus Rose found a Minox camera loaded with film in Oswald's bag. A Minox is a German spy camera, small enough to hide in the palm of your hand.

• 26:48AJ Gentile?

  Intelligence agencies loved them. Warehouse clerks couldn't afford them. The camera was photographed and put into police inventory. Then, the camera disappeared. But something showed up in the FBI's inventory: a Minox light meter. Three times, the FBI asked Gus Rose to change the paperwork from camera to light meter. Rose refused every time, and he testified to all this under oath. Reporters asked why the Dallas PD said camera and the FBI said light meter. There wasn't a good answer. So, J. Edgar Hoover sent orders to the Dallas office: Find that camera. And the next day, someone did: Michael Payne.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip: the Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So, rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone.

• 28:00AJ Gentile?

  The next day, Michael Payne handed the FBI a Minox microcamera. He said it was his and was in the garage the whole time, in a coffee can. Michael said the police weren't interested in a spy camera, found in a house occupied by a defector's Russian wife.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  This spy camera was in a coffee can? Of course, right next to the microfilm in a sugar bowl and a cyanide in a spice rack.

• 28:22AJ Gentile?

  And the serial number on Michael's camera had five digits. The Minox Corporation said their cameras had six digits. And the serial number's important. It's how Minox could trace a camera's manufacture date and origin. A five-digit number makes it untraceable. The Warren Commission had the Paynes under oath for days. Nobody asked them one question about that camera. The rifle, the photos, the translations, the spy camera, and the job that put Oswald in that window. Every one of those things ran through Ruth Paine's house. Even Oswald's mother said she believed both Marina and Ruth Paine were involved. Somehow, the family at the center of the evidence was never treated as part of the case. And here's the thing: The FBI was already looking at the Paynes. Twice in the weeks before the assassination, an agent stopped by.

• 29:07AJ Gentile?

  He was keeping tabs on the defector's wife who lived there. The Bureau had a file open on Lee Harvey Oswald before a single shot was fired. So, when the shots came, every phone line that touched Oswald's world became a live wire, and the FBI started listening. On the afternoon of the assassination, Michael Payne called Ruth from work. He said he felt sure Oswald killed the president, but he didn't feel Oswald was responsible. And then came the next sentence.

• 29:34Speaker 05

  We both know who is responsible for the assassination.

• 29:40AJ Gentile?

  When commission lawyers asked Michael about this, he denied saying it. And the call never appeared in the Warren Report. It was reduced to a few sentences in an FBI file called Commission Document 206. And in that file, the source was redacted. The names of the people on the call were redacted. Just a male voice and a female voice. The phone numbers were not identified. For more than a decade, we both know who is responsible. That quote only lived in that buried report. When the files were opened in the 1970s, it was revealed that it was, in fact, Michael and Ruth Paine on that call. Something else was missing from the Warren Report. In all 26 volumes, all 888 pages, Poorich, The Round Table, and The Nine didn't appear once.

• 30:25AJ Gentile?

  But they should have. The séance world was closer to the Commission than anyone knew. One of the seven commissioners was former director of the CIA and longtime villain on this channel, Allen Dulles. Dulles should not have been on that Commission for a few reasons. One, Kennedy fired him. After the Bay of Pigs, Kennedy said he wanted to, quote, "shatter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds." He believed Dulles wanted to drag the US into a war with Cuba, which they tried over and over. So Dulles was out. And there's another reason Dulles had no business being on the Commission. He had a secret. During the war, he ran a spy in Switzerland, Mary Bancroft. She was his agent, and she was his mistress.

• 31:08AJ Gentile?

  And for more than 40 years, Mary Bancroft's best friend was Ruth Forbes Payne Young. They traveled together, they vacationed together.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Hold on, hold on, hold on. The commissioner's spy girlfriend's best friend is the séance lady whose son had the rifle in his garage?

• 31:25AJ Gentile?

  Those are the facts.

• 31:26Speaker 02

  I've seen tighter plots and vertical dramas.

• 31:28AJ Gentile?

  You watched those?

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Guilty pleasure, hate is welcome.

• 31:33AJ Gentile?

  While Dulles sat on the Commission, Bancroft wrote him a letter reminding him how well she knew Michael Payne's mother. That letter wasn't in the Report either. It was found 40 years later. The man Kennedy fired had the files on the family that housed this killer. The files on the family of his mistress's best friend. And 14 years later, someone started burning the files.

• 31:59Speaker 00

  Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip: the Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone.

• 32:29AJ Gentile?

  On September 5, 1976, George de Morinshilt wrote a letter to the director of the CIA begging for help. He said vigilantes surrounded his family. Their phone was tapped. They were followed everywhere.

• 32:39Speaker 06

  Either FBI is involved in this, or they do not want to accept my complaints. We are driven to insanity by the situation. I tried to write, stupidly and unsuccessfully, about Lee H. Oswald and must have angered a lot of people. I do not know. But to punish an elderly man like myself and my highly nervous and sick wife is really too much. Could you do something to remove the net around us?

• 33:13AJ Gentile?

  The director read the letter, and he recognized the name. His prep school roommate was de Morinshilt's nephew. And in de Morinshilt's own address book, there was an entry for an old friend. Bush, George H.W. Poppy. The director of the CIA was George Bush. Bush's staff asked how well he knew the writer. Bush said he knew the man since the 1940s. Then in a memo, he added a strange sentence.

• 33:38Speaker 07

  I do know this man, de Morinshilt. I don't recall his role in all this.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  I don't recall. He's politician for... I recall vividly, but not until I have counsel present.

• 33:50AJ Gentile?

  And Bush wrote back to George de Morinshilt.

• 33:52Speaker 07

  In your situation, I can well imagine how the attentions you described in your letter affect both you and your wife. However, my staff has been unable to find any indication of interest in your activities. On the part of federal authorities in recent years, I can only speculate that you may have become newsworthy again in view of the renewed interest in the Kennedy assassination, and thus may be attracting the attention of people in the media.

• 34:22AJ Gentile?

  Two months after that, George tried to take his own life. Four times. His wife got so scared that she hadn't committed. Doctors put him through electroshock therapy and released him at the end of 1976. In March 1977, journalist Edward Epstein went to Palm Beach to interview him. They met at the Breakers Hotel for breakfast. That's when George finally admitted his CIA contact, J. Walton Moore, put him on Oswald.

• 34:46Speaker 06

  I would never have contacted Oswald in a million years if Moore had not sanctioned it. Too much was at stake.

• 34:56AJ Gentile?

  The friendship was real. The assignment was too. They took a break for lunch. Epstein went back to his room. They were scheduled to pick things back up at 3:00. That same morning, Congressional investigator Gaetan Fonzie drove to George's house.

• 35:09Speaker 02

  His name is Fancy?

• 35:10AJ Gentile?

  Yep.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  Cool name.

• 35:13AJ Gentile?

  George wasn't home. Fonzie left his card with George's daughter.

• 35:16Speaker 02

  Yay!

• 35:17AJ Gentile?

  George came back at 2:00. He saw the card and went upstairs. Almost 40 minutes later, his daughter found him. He apparently shot himself with a shotgun. But six people were in that house, and not one of them heard a shotgun go off. But a maid had a tape recorder going. She was recording a soap opera. On the tape, you hear a single blast at 2:21 and the sound of a gun hitting the floor. And George wasn't the only witness connected to JFK who turned up dead, or didn't turn up at all. Chicago mob boss Shemjan Kana was shot in his kitchen before he could testify about the CIA's plots against Castro. Mobster Johnny Roselli went missing and turned up in an oil drum. An ex-cop, Richard Kane, was linked to the mob and the CIA. He was also killed in Chicago, in a sandwich shop.

• 36:02AJ Gentile?

  Hale Boggs was a congressman on the Warren Commission. He publicly criticized the Warren Report and called for a new investigation in the 1970s. He disappeared in a small plane over Alaska in 1972. The wreckage was never found. And a year and a half after Palm Beach, the Lab 9 estate burned down. Decades of Poorich's files went up with it, along with the family dog. He didn't talk to the police. But later, he wrote he believed it was the CIA. Then Poorich went into hiding. He died in 1995 after a fall down a staircase. By the end of the 1970s, the JFK witnesses were all dead. And everyone in Poorich's world lost their jobs, their reputations, and their funding.

• 36:47AJ Gentile?

  Some people lost their minds. Every person in the Council of Nine, and every person who can name them, was gone.

• 37:00Speaker 04

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• 37:34AJ Gentile?

  This is one of the stories where the true parts are strange enough without any help. So let's separate what happened from what didn't. The séances happened. The Round Table was real, and so was that donor list. Poorich's assignment to find a drug that enhances ESP is true. The Nine are a different story. Everything from inside that copper room comes through one man. The aliens, the predictions, the equations, nobody else saw any of it. And Poorich didn't write about it until 1974. After JFK, after the Warren Report, after the Paynes got famous. Either nine aliens predicted history, or one man made up a story to claim a piece of it. Now, Geller's 10 for 10 really happened in front of witnesses, but he's been controversial for years.

• 38:16AJ Gentile?

  But the CIA wrote about him, that he demonstrated his paranormal perceptual ability in a convincing and unambiguous manner. But that wasn't good enough to keep Stargate running. The program was eventually shut down because it wasn't yielding valuable results. But that's also being debated.

• 38:33AJ Gentile?

  What happened to Dallas is different. There are records, there are witnesses, there's connections, a lot of connections, too many connections to explain away as coincidence. Lee Harvey Oswald got a job at Dealey Plaza over a month before the president's route was announced. That's either a coincidence, or he knew something. Now, I lean toward he knew something, but until we have all the JFK files, all we can do is speculate, which we love to do. Now, it's true that everything ran through Ruth Paine's house, but she was never charged. And she said for 60 years, she was just helping a friend. She's still around today, and she sticks by that story, and please leave her alone. The spy camera turned up in the FBI's own files. Then it became a light meter. The police receipt says camera, and FBI signed it.

• 39:17AJ Gentile?

  The property clerk admitted he changed the paperwork when the viewer asked him to, and Hoover's teletypes about this still exist. Skeptics will say the camera appears on the Friday list, but the bag wasn't searched until Saturday. Maybe someone confused a camera case for a camera, but a camera case doesn't hold film. And Gus Rose opened it and found a roll inside. He said so under oath, and he never wavered. None of it makes anyone a spy, but it's one more thing that ran through that garage that got rewritten on paper. That phone call happened. The warrant report didn't have much to say about it, and without an actual recording, Michael Payne is innocent until proven guilty, but it's another uncomfortable detail.

• 39:59AJ Gentile?

  George DeMornishult confessed, but he was dying, and he was paid for his story, so the confession is not solid. But he was a CIA informant. At the time, J. Walt Moore denied that, but the classified files show George really was reporting to the CIA. The CIA denied a lot of things about JFK, and they still do. I don't think George was killed, but the uncomfortable connections are there. Dulles is the real problem with all of this. His mistress's best friend was all over the story and was never investigated. That's not a confession, but it proves the warrant report was incomplete at best and corrupt at worst, and everything flows from that. Dulles should have never been on that commission, and I'll never stop saying it. Dead mobsters happened. Were they connected to JFK?

• 40:44AJ Gentile?

  Maybe. Was the mob connected to the CIA? Absolutely. But the one death that should bother you is the dead congressman, the guy from the commission, Hale Boggs. His plane vanished over Alaska. Now, that's a place where planes vanish, but it would be nice to have some closure on that, but no wreckage, no closure. Poo Ridge's house really was set on fire while he was away. His kids were home, but they got out in time. Their dog was really killed. And his notes were lost, but he published before the fire. So here's what we're left with, an ordinary explanation. Wealthy families are connected. They're connected with each other, with the government, and with the intelligence community. Wealthy people cluster.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Oh, sure, they cluster around seances, the CIA, and the guy who shot the president. My poker buddies cluster around TV, warm light beer, and somebody's wife's meatballs.

• 41:35AJ Gentile?

  You have a point, but correlation is not conspiracy.

• 41:37Speaker 02

  And it ain't exculpatory either, counselor. Clearing someone a guilt.

• 41:42AJ Gentile?

  I know what it means. But that doesn't explain the pattern. The same people kept appearing around psychic research, military money, the Paynes, Oswald, and the CIA. I didn't even get into the Moore Island UFO connection to JFK, but I have a whole episode on that. More names like Fred Crispin and Guy Bannister, more people connected to New Orleans, all connected to the CIA, all connected to the mob, and the death of a president. Coincidences are not a conspiracy, until they are. The alien gods weren't real. The nine people were. They had the money, the connections, and the power to change the world, and nobody could prove they didn't. There are people out there right now, sitting around a table, deciding who lives and who dies, deciding which elected leaders are inconvenient, deciding what stories you're

• 42:27AJ Gentile?

  allowed to hear. It doesn't matter if you're a mobster, a strip club owner, or the President of the United States. If you become a problem, you go away. But nobody at a table like that thinks they're a villain. They think they're chosen, a god, a flag, a voice in the dark. Something always gives powerful people permission, and once they have it, the ordinary rules don't apply to them. The people at the table change, but there's never an empty seat. Thank you so much for hanging out today. My name is AJ. You know Hecklefish.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  Word to the wise. If your new best friend speaks fluent Minsk and keeps driving you to job interviews, ask who's paying for the gas.

• 43:12AJ Gentile?

  This has been the Y Files. If you had fun or learned anything, he'd appreciate it if you could subscribe. I don't care, but he really wants you to like, subscribe, comment, and share. That stuff really makes his spins tinkle. Like most topics we cover on the channel, today's is recommended by you. If there's a story you want to see or learn more about, go to theyfiles.com/tips, send me an email, catch us on Discord in the comments, you'll find, you know where we are. If you enjoy the stories I tell here on the Y Files, check out my other show on the channel. It's called The Basement. It's a conversation show where I chat with the interesting people behind these episodes. Some of them you know, but a lot of them you don't, but they're all people I find fascinating. Experts on topics like the moon landing hoax, or it was real, the JFK conspiracy, DMT laser

• 43:55AJ Gentile?

  code was a good one, precognition with Eric Wargo was one of my favorites, Mark D'Antoni was here last week, Mr. Ballin was in. It's random, but it's a lot of fun. And if there's someone you'd like to see on the show, let me know. I'm always looking for good guests. Remember, you can also listen to the Y Files as a podcast. Take us on the road. I upload at least twice a week, episodes, campfire stories, interviews. You can find it by looking for the Y Files Operation Podcast. I was short of time, I needed a name that seemed to make sense. Anyway, it's there, it's available everywhere you get your podcasts. If you need more Y Files in your life, see you, doctor. Find a date, go outside, touch grass. I'm just kidding. If you need more Y Files in your life, and who doesn't?

• 44:38AJ Gentile?

  Make sure you check out our 24/7 stream on the Y Files Backstage, link down below. Over there, we run episodes back to back, some fun content in between, and the live chat is more entertaining than anything I could produce. Special thanks to our patrons who made this channel possible. Every episode of the Y Files is dedicated to my Patreon members. I couldn't do any of this without your support. Some of you have been here for years, and I thank you for that. And if you'd like to support the channel, keep us going, and join this amazing community, for as little as $3 a month, you get access to perks like seeing videos early with no commercials, exclusive merch, and two private live streams every week just for you. And the whole Y Files team is on the stream, not just my mug.

• 45:18AJ Gentile?

  You get to see Victoria, Jen, Gino, hybrids, sometimes Mary Jane is on there, and the same usual suspects show up. When I do live streams, there's thousands of people in there, it's hard to be heard. Over on Patreon, there's two dozen of us, maybe sometimes 100, and you get to talk. You can turn on your webcam, hop up on stage, ask a question, talk about anything you like. I think it's a great way to get to know us as people. Another way to support the channel is grab something from the Y Files store.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  Grab a Hecklefish t-shirt, or a fistful of coffee mugs, stick your fist into it for the CIA attention. Oh, get it, honey, something like this, honey, I get one of these adorable, squeaky animal Hecklefish t-shirts.

• 45:56AJ Gentile?

  But if you're gonna buy merch, make sure you become a member on YouTube. I know, more money is worth it, I promise. Because YouTube members get 10% off everything in the Y Files store forever, and it's only $3 a month. So if you're gonna spend $40 on t-shirts, fistful coffee mugs, challenge coins, Hecklefish plushies, if you're gonna spend $40, become a member, get the code, it pays for itself, and then just cancel. I don't mind. That thing is there to save you money, it doesn't make me any money. I give all that revenue to the great team.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, keep that secret down in the sack, Drayton.

• 46:27AJ Gentile?

  Those are the plugs, and that's gonna do it. Oh, my voice is hoarse. I'm not gonna know until I look at this in the edit. How long was Bubba back there? You guys see a black and white kitten up there? That was Bubba Boy. I'm not redoing it. He's staying in. Welcome to the channel, pal. Until next time, be safe, be kind, another you are appreciated. Bubs? Where are you, Bubs?

• 47:34Speaker 03

  And it never ends. No, it never ends.

• 47:47Speaker 03

  I fear the crap cat and got stuck inside mail's hole with them kale truck. I'm being only too aware. Did Stanley Kubrick fake the moon landing alone on a film set? Were the shadows people there? The Rockwell aliens just fought the smiling man. I'm told, and his name was Cole. And I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish. Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2. And one more zombie beat all through the night.

• 48:28Speaker 03

  All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. So one more zombie beat all through the night.

• 48:53Speaker 03

  The Mothman sightings and the solar storms still come to have got the Pacific City underground. Mysterious number stations, planet circle to Project Stargate and what the dark watchers found. In a simulation, don't you worry though. The black neck said a lot of tone to me. So I can't believe I'm dancing with the fish. Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2. And one more zombie beat all through the night.

• 49:34Speaker 03

  All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. So one more zombie beat all through the night. Head to fish on Thursday nights with AJ2. And one more zombie beat all through the night. All I ever wanted was to just hear the truth. So one more zombie beat all through the night.

• 50:13Speaker 03

  Girlie loves to dance. Girlie loves to dance on the dance floor. Because she is a camel and camels love to dance. When the feeling is right on wasting time.

• 50:49Speaker 00

  Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip, the Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone.

• 51:13Speaker 04

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• 51:43Speaker 03

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