Are Christians Required to Pledge Loyalty to Bibi Netanyahu? Carrie Prejean Boller & Tucker Respond.

Does the Christian catechism require loyalty to Benjamin Netanyahu? Apparently it does, as Carrie Prejean Boller learned the hard way. (00:00) Trump's Religious Liberty Commission (14:53) Who Is Paula White? (30:01) What Is Replacement Theology? (32:13) Was Carrie’s Ousting in Preparation for the Iran War? (43:18) Carrie's Strange Meeting With Dan Patrick and Paula White (52:01) What Happened in the Hearing? (1:17:12) Carrie's Feud With Seth Dillon Carrie Prejean Boller has been boldly standing for truth since 2009. Almost 20 years later here she is, the same girl, still standing. More bold than ever. Unwilling to compromise her Christian beliefs for a temporal position, even one appointed by the President of the United States. IG: @carrieprejeanboller X: @carrieprejean1 Paid partnerships with: VanMan: Use code TUCKER for 15% off your first order at http://vanman.shop/tucker Charity Mobile: A pro-life company serving pro-life customers and supporting pro-life causes for 30 years. Use promo code TUCKER to get a free phone with free activation, free shipping, and a free gift with every new line of service at https://charitymobile.com/Tucker Cozy Earth: Luxury shouldn't be out of reach. Get up to 20% off at https://cozyearth.com/TUCKER Defend: Enter code "Tucker" for 20% off your purchase at https://defendcellcam.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:34Tucker Carlson?

  Carrie, thank you for doing this. I've been watching you on the internet. I've never met you, but I'm grateful for your honesty and your bravery and the precision of what you say. You never, in the face of all this criticism, never got so mad that you revealed ugly sentiments, which I don't think you have. You just stuck right to the Christian case. So bless you for that. How did you get involved in the President's Religious Liberty Commission? What is it and how did you become a member of it?

• 1:01Speaker 02

  Very good question. So I was Miss California in 2009. Donald Trump owned the Miss Universe, Miss USA organization. It was very controversial, but I dared to say onstage that I believe marriage is between one man and one woman.

• 1:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 1:15Speaker 02

  And I don't know if you remember that.

• 1:16Tucker Carlson?

  I do remember it. And they punished you for it.

• 1:18Speaker 02

  Huge controversy. That was really before anybody was canceled. So I always tell people I was one of the first to be canceled.

• 1:26Tucker Carlson?

  The crazy thing is the majority of Californians agreed with you because they voted in a referendum. Pretty overwhelming. Prop eight, which was then invalidated by a judge because democracy is fake. But you were saying what most of your fellow Californians believed.

• 1:41Speaker 02

  Hundred percent, yeah. And I was just standing on my principles, which is what I'm doing now. So Donald Trump loved me. He said, Carrie, this is going to be the best thing that ever happened to you. I remember one day he was in his office and he's like, Carrie, you have the it factor. And I'm like, what is that? I was 21 years old. I'm like, what does that mean? And he's like, you just have it. He's like, you dared to speak the truth, knowing what it would cost you. And I think he really respected me for that. And so at 21, I became this, you know, conservative darling, I guess you could say, and dared to stand up for my faith. And I doubled down. You know, they told me, go on, Matt Lauer, and apologize for what you said. You must apologize.

• 2:22Tucker Carlson?

  Did they really tell you that?

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, the pageant people said, go on and apologize. And I turned my phone off. I went on Matt Lauer and he's like, all right, Carrie, let's do a redo. How would you answer the question? I said, I have no regrets. I would

• 2:36Tucker Carlson?

  You're getting a lecture on sexual ethics from Matt Lauer?

• 2:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:39Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  The irony of that.

• 2:40Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I said, I'd rather be biblically correct than politically correct. And from there it was like, I mean, I was on every news station every day for the four months. It was nonstop. It was to the point of like harassment, like my 90 year old grandmother was being harassed. I mean, it was insane. But I stood firm and I did not waver.

• 3:02Tucker Carlson?

  And your position, just to restate all these years later, was I believe marriage is between a man and a woman.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  That was my answer.

• 3:09Tucker Carlson?

  That's it.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  I said, no offense to anyone out there. This is the way I was raised. This is what I believe. Marriage between one man and one woman. And I got second place and I got dragged through the mud. It was horrible. And the president loved me and he said, Carrie, this is, what do you want to do? He's like, do you want to be on Dancing with the Stars? Do you want to be on Fox News? I did like a little tryout on

• 3:32Speaker 02

  the morning show at Fox with Roger Ailes in New York. I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to wake up at 3am.

• 3:36Tucker Carlson?

  No, you don't.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  And I said, you know what, Mr. President? I said, all I want to do is get married, be a mom. I had met Kyle and I just said, I just want to go on with my life. But I do want to write a book because nobody can take my story from me. And so he signed off on it. Thank God he did, because it was, it was amazing that I was able to share my story. And I just kept in touch with him all these years. And so, you know, I would defend him when they were calling him a sexist, saying he was going backstage and looking at the girls and Miss USA and the, you know, changing rooms. And I would just constantly be like, no, that's not the guy. Like, you're painting him as this sexist, misogynist, racist, you know, and he was being called every name in the book, you remember. And

• 4:21Speaker 02

  I just defended him always because I stand on truth. And then fast forward to this Religious Liberty Commission and I got a call from the White House two days after I was confirmed as a Catholic. And they said, we're calling on behalf of the president and we want to invite you to be on this Religious Liberty Commission.

• 4:38Tucker Carlson?

  When was that?

• 4:39Speaker 02

  It was April 20th, I want to say, 2025.

• 4:44Speaker 02

  And I wept. I was like, wow. This is incredible. I mean, almost 20 years later, after I took that stand, here I am now defending religious liberty. Because I ultimately lost the Miss USA or Miss California title because of my answer. I will say that. They took it away from me.

• 5:03Tucker Carlson?

  I remember.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. And the president had my back, which was, which was amazing. He said, she just said nothing wrong. She stood on her principles. And I loved that about him.

• 5:13Tucker Carlson?

  Amen. I agree.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  Because that was when it was unpopular to do that.

• 5:16Tucker Carlson?

  Yes.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  You know, he risked a lot. I was standing there at Trump Tower with him and

• 5:22Speaker 02

  it was amazing. I'll never forget that. And so we just stayed friends. I would call him while he's on the golf course and be like, hey, they're asking me to go on the gay pride parade. I don't want to do that. And he's like, I'll take care of it. Don't worry. And so

• 5:34Tucker Carlson?

  The pageant people are trying to get you to march in the gay pride parade?

• 5:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. They're like, well, you can make it up to the gays by just going to the gay pride parade. And showing that you're not a homophobe.

• 5:46Speaker 02

  So I'm used to these tricks. I've been doing this 20 years. So. Yeah. So that's how I got on the commission.

• 5:52Tucker Carlson?

  It's exactly what's happening now. It's exactly. Topic has changed, sort of, but not, not the tactics. So what did they tell you the Religious Liberty Commission was?

• 6:05Speaker 02

  They told me that the Religious Liberty Commission was 12 of us, 12 commissioners. And our job was to hear from everyday, average Americans who were facing religious persecution. Like myself right now, ironically. So we would have hearings in DC once a month. And Dan Patrick is the chairman of the commission. We're equals on this commission.

• 6:25Tucker Carlson?

  Who's Dan Patrick?

• 6:26Speaker 02

  He's the lieutenant governor of Texas. He's not above me. I'm not above him. We're equals. And it's under the Department of Justice. So Pam Bondi is involved.

• 6:36Tucker Carlson?

  Actually?

• 6:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:38Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 6:40Speaker 02

  So we were told that we were going to be hearing from people at these hearings. It's from like eight to two in the afternoon, so very long day. And the witnesses, we could recommend witnesses and then have them come and testify. And I recommended so many great witnesses throughout these past seven months. I recommended a little boy who was forced to, you know, read a book about how you can be a transgender. And he came and met the president and everybody got to see that. That was special. The president really appreciated him and his parents' stance and standing up for religious freedom, so stuff like that. We heard from a Navy SEAL who lost his pension because he didn't want to get the COVID shot. Things like that, where we were doing really great work. And I thought, I thought it was actually protecting religious freedom, but I realize

• 7:25Speaker 02

  now that's, that's not what it was.

• 7:28Tucker Carlson?

  Uh, no, it was softening up Christians for the Iran war, obviously, and other things. Who were the other members of it, the other 11?

• 7:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I actually, when I got the call, I actually wept because I didn't feel qualified. I thought, you know, here I am amongst these incredible names. Bishop Barron, Cardinal Dolan, Kelly Shackelford. He's run a religious liberty law firm for 35 years. He's big CEO. You had Ryan Anderson. You had crazy Paula White. Just these incredible names. You have a woman, Allison Ho, who I believe her husband might be the next Supreme Court Justice. Just, she's argued at the Supreme Court over, I think, eight times.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  I mean, here I am, this mom, who I just didn't feel qualified.

• 8:25Tucker Carlson?

  I didn't make the connection between your own experience of religious discrimination and this appointment, but clearly that, that was the point, right?

• 8:32Speaker 02

  Then I realized that, no, I am qualified. In fact, I'm probably one of the most qualified because I don't know how many people on that stage have ever been attacked, have ever been slandered, have ever been canceled, have ever lost anything. I mean, look at Dr. Phil. He's on the commission. He has a huge organization. They have big backing, big money behind them. And here I am, this little mom, that I'm not owned by anybody. They can't take anything from me. And that's why I'm free. And that's why I said what I said that day.

• 9:03Tucker Carlson?

  So what were the meetings like?

• 9:05Speaker 02

  Ah, prior to the antisemitism hearing, they were incredible. I was crying as I would listen to these, these people who are facing religious persecution. And the end of this, the, the main part of this commission is the end of the, the one year appointment was we were going to sit down with the president and say, okay, here's our report. Here's what we recommend that you, you know, maybe executive orders that you can put in, maybe legislative things that you can push to protect religious freedom. And so I took this, this position very serious, very serious. It makes me sad. You know, I was the champion for mothers who didn't want to vaccinate their kids to go to school.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  I listened to people that are suffering in Gaza that simply just were protesting at their college campus. They're using their first amendment rights. It's, it's crazy where we're at.

• 9:59Tucker Carlson?

  Did you have any sense from talking to the other members between April, when you got it and was it January, I think, when this contra Trump happened? Did you have any sense that the other members of the commission were trying to steer you in a certain direction, disagreed with you, had an agenda that was not stated?

• 10:19Speaker 02

  I realized in August. So I got, I got appointed in April or May, May 1st, National Day of Prayer. Went to the White House, the president signed the executive order. We're all standing there. And then we took the summer break. So we had a couple of months off. And then our first hearing was going to be, I believe it was, uh, end of August or early September. Well, end of August, I got a call from the White House, the PPO. Or I guess it was, no, it was, it was the designated federal officer who's in charge of the commission. So the head of Dan, he's the chairman and then his boss. And she's like, hey, Carrie, um, I noticed that you've been posting some things online.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  And, um, there's been some chatter in the White House that you're an antisemite.

• 11:07Tucker Carlson?

  You're an anti Semite?

• 11:08Speaker 02

  And I, I literally was like, what are you talking about?

• 11:12Tucker Carlson?

  Who was this person?

• 11:13Speaker 02

  Her name's Mary Margaret Bush. And she said, I don't know who it is, but it's, it's probably some low person that is just trying to cause problems. I would ignore it, but I just wanted to make sure that you're mindful of what you're posting. And that was the first time where I was like, okay. Like I am not, this is not a paid position. I'm a volunteer. They pay for my flight. They pay for my hotel, but that's it. I'm not paid to do this job. I'm volunteering this, this job. And so I said, wait a sec, I pushed back and I said, you're telling me that as a, as a religious liberty commissioner, to protect religious liberty, I don't have my religious liberty to post about things that affect my religion and my religious beliefs?

• 11:56Speaker 02

  So I said, I pushed back and I said, what are the things that I've been posting? Well, you posted Tucker Carlson's, uh, or you posted the Green Beret that you interviewed, Anthony Aguilar. I said, yeah, I did. I did post that. That's sad. That's heartbreaking to me.

• 12:12Tucker Carlson?

  Shooting people in food lines?

• 12:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:14Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, which they have?

• 12:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. I said, I'm a pro life Christian. I have a duty to speak out and it would be a betrayal of my conscience not to.

• 12:21Tucker Carlson?

  So what's in your toothpaste? If you're using the brand you grew up with, you probably don't want to know. The ingredients likely include fluoride, something called SLS glycerin foaming agents. It's a chemical cocktail. Van Man's toothpaste is different. Their miracle tooth powder is changing everything and people are ditching traditional toothpaste filled with chemicals by the thousands. Van Man's tooth powder uses ingredients with the same mineral structure as your teeth that remineralizes them and strengthens your enamel naturally. No fluoride at all and totally edible. You could put it on toast. Not that you'd want to, but you could. People who use it report wetter teeth, less plaque, they wake up without that gross film on their gums. And here's the amazing part. Vivid dreams are back.

• 13:06Tucker Carlson?

  You dream clearly when you stop coating your mouth in fluoride every night. Did you know that? Pretty amazing. Tells you a lot. So make the switch. Visit van man dot shop slash Tucker. Use the code Tucker for 15% off your first order. Van man dot shop slash Tucker. Use the code Tucker 15% off. Van Man, real ingredients.

• 13:26Speaker 03

  We all hear the radio ads about the IRS. They tell you to be afraid, to be scared, and they try to frighten you into calling. I'm not here to do that. Tax Relief Advocates is different. TRA is here to tell you that if you owe money to the IRS, whether it's $5,000, $50,000, or $500,000, we have a solution. It doesn't matter if you're sitting in your car, at work, or with your kids. No matter where you are, call now. 800-576-4705. Don't lose hope. TRA can eliminate or reduce what you owe to the IRS. Generous programs are now available that can give you a fresh start. Our passion is taxes and helping individuals fix their IRS problems. We have over 1,000 5-star reviews on Google and an 8+ with the Better Business Bureau. You don't need to be afraid of the IRS any longer.

• 14:11Speaker 03

  End your tax nightmare today by visiting us online at TRA.com or call 800-576-4705. That's 800-576-4705. Tax Relief Advocates: Real Solutions for Real People.

• 14:26Speaker 04

  Imagine if every time inverse Kramer or another top investor bought a stock, you bought it too, in your own brokerage account, automatically. Well, that now exists and it's called Autopilot. Built by the team behind the viral Pelosi Stock Tracker, Autopilot lets you browse their marketplace of strategies run by proven investors or AI-driven models. Just find one with a high return, connect your personal brokerage account like a Schwab or Robinhood, and every trade they make, you make automatically. Your money never leaves your own account. Autopilot just mirrors the moves. So now, no more guessing, no more staring at charts, and no more checking the market between meetings. Also, over 1.3 billion is already invested. So if you wanted to check it out,

• 15:10Speaker 04

  search Autopilot in the App Store or go to joinautopilot.com. That's joinautopilot.com. Investing has risks, like the loss of principal.

• 15:19Tucker Carlson?

  Zero exceptions. So this woman from the White House said that posting an interview that I did made you an anti-Semite?

• 15:27Speaker 02

  She said that there were people complaining about certain things that I was posting. And then, this was the worst. She said, you know, you posted Pope Leo, what he said, and you wrote in the caption, you know, that there's suffering in Gaza and there's a genocide. You know, you really just, you shouldn't use that language. That's when I knew, this is, this is a war. We are in an absolute war. I said, I'm a Catholic. You're telling me that I have to censor my posts of Pope Leo, the Holy Father? I can't post what he's saying, talking about the grave suffering of the Palestinians in Gaza?

• 16:09Speaker 02

  And she said, you also cannot, cannot talk about Zionism. So Zionism, this is her words, is, is there right to exist? And so when you're posting about Zionism, Carrie, you're saying that the Jews don't have a right to exist?

• 16:26Tucker Carlson?

  Huh? Mary Margaret Bush is her name?

• 16:29Speaker 02

  Mary Margaret Bush is her name. She's a young woman. And I said, well, this wouldn't jeopardize my position on the commission, would it? Like, the president doesn't know about this, right? Because imagine me, I'm like, I just got appointed. I'm super excited, I'm passionate. This is like my dream job to protect religious freedom. And now I'm being told I don't have my own. And she goes, oh, no, no, no, the president, no, don't worry about this, Carrie. This wouldn't jeopardize. So I just kept posting. Well, then, I got a call from the PPO office at the White House.

• 16:58Tucker Carlson?

  May I just ask you to pause for one second? Did she, did Mary Margaret Bush tell you who had called you an anti-Semite? That's a serious slander.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:06Tucker Carlson?

  Did she name the people saying that?

• 17:07Speaker 02

  She said, I have no idea who it is.

• 17:09Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, it's just people, people are saying?

• 17:11Speaker 02

  I think the people was Paula White. Let, let's just be honest. It was Paula White, I think. My, my personal opinion of that.

• 17:17Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so now, I'm sorry to keep interrupting this amazing narrative, but for people who don't follow this, who is Paula White?

• 17:24Speaker 02

  Paula White is Trump's pastor.

• 17:28Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  That's who he picked as his pastor.

• 17:29Tucker Carlson?

  And she's a pastor? She's, that's her official position? She's a pastor?

• 17:33Speaker 02

  I don't believe women can be pastors, but who am I? I'm just a dumb mom in California.

• 17:38Tucker Carlson?

  So is she's, is she's a Christian pastor, Paula White?

• 17:41Speaker 02

  She's a Christian Zionist evangelical heretic, in my opinion.

• 17:45Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 17:47Speaker 02

  But yeah, she's Trump's, she runs the White House, the Faith Office, White House position. And she's on the Religious Liberty Commission with me and very involved in all things Bibi Netanyahu. And so I got a call from...

• 17:59Tucker Carlson?

  How would you rate her authority as a Christian leader?

• 18:04Speaker 02

  Oh, I don't take her serious at all. I don't think she's a Christian leader. I think she's a crazy person, honestly. I think she's a heretic.

• 18:14Tucker Carlson?

  I think for people who think you're throwing those terms around lightly or slandering her, I think it'd be worth going online and reading about her and watching videos of her demanding money from her congregation on film with some other Christian pastor in a foreign country. Clearly, she's got a complicated personal life and saying things that bear no resemblance at all to Christian doctrine. I think it's fair what you're saying, I guess is my point.

• 18:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I got a call from the White House, Mary Sprouls, another Mary, and I looked her up.

• 18:48Tucker Carlson?

  From Presidential Personnel Office?

• 18:50Speaker 02

  Yes, PPO Office, yeah. I got a call in August, shortly after that phone call with the other Mary. And I'll never forget it. I answered the phone and she's like, "Hi, Carrie, this is Mary Sprouls calling from the White House, PPO Office. I'm calling to ask you for your resignation today."

• 19:08Tucker Carlson?

  When was this?

• 19:09Speaker 02

  This was in August. Yeah. This was in August, a few weeks after. Yes, very scary. And I remember I had like a tear just come down, but I wasn't sad. It was like anger.

• 19:23Tucker Carlson?

  Had you gone to any meetings of the Commission at this point?

• 19:26Speaker 02

  Our first, we had a first hearing, just, yeah, briefly, like a brief hearing on kind of the history of religious freedom in America. But our first hearing, the most important hearing coming up, the little boy that had to read the book, was a few weeks later.

• 19:39Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, so this is before you even like served out your duties as a Commissioner?

• 19:42Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, no, it was before the first official hearing.

• 19:44Tucker Carlson?

  And she asked for your resignation?

• 19:46Speaker 02

  She said, "I want your written resignation today." And I said, "Who are you? I thought this was a joke. Who is this person?" And she goes, "I am calling on behalf of the White House." I said, "Why would you ask me for my resignation? I just got on this Commission. What did I do wrong?"

• 20:02Tucker Carlson?

  Boy, you are tough.

• 20:05Speaker 02

  Oh, I was not, I was not gonna go down without a fight, because I knew, I knew.

• 20:10Tucker Carlson?

  I'm just looking at your husband who's nodding, she's tough. So, excuse me.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  No.

• 20:15Tucker Carlson?

  No good for you.

• 20:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I said, "I'm not resigning. And I don't know who asked you to have me resign? Was it the President? Because I think the President should ask me to resign, if he wants me to resign. He appointed me, and only he can ask for my resignation. So I'm not resigning."

• 20:32Speaker 02

  So we got off the phone.

• 20:33Tucker Carlson?

  Wait, but on what grounds was she demanding your resignation?

• 20:35Speaker 02

  She did not answer any questions. She was just told. It was like a puppet. She was like, I gotta just send the message. So I called her back.

• 20:42Tucker Carlson?

  So she said, we're asking for your resignation, but she did not explain why?

• 20:46Speaker 02

  No, she said, it's just not working out. Yeah, literally. Now that it's coming back to me.

• 20:52Tucker Carlson?

  This was not a Tinder date. It's just not working out.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  It's just not working out. And I'm going, this is serious. This is very serious.

• 21:00Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  So then I hung up and then I wanted to make sure it was a legit person. So I called right back and I said, hi, Mary. I said, this is Carrie. I'm just curious, please. I know you, I know you don't want to give me information. I know you're just a messenger because I didn't want to be mean to her.

• 21:12Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  But I said, who is telling you to, to have me resign? Who is, who have you talked to? And I'll never forget it. She didn't want to say it, but she finally said it. She goes, I've talked to Paula White and Dan Patrick and Brittany Baldwin, who Brittany Baldwin used to work for Ted Cruz. So it's all making sense now, what's going on. So this is, this is a, this is a witch hunt. They, they're trying to actively remove me and they know that the only way that I could be removed is if I resign, or if I die, or if the president removes me. So in my mind, I'm thinking, does the president know about this? Or is this just the Dan and Paula trying to out me on their own? I think they thought, oh,

• 21:57Speaker 02

  if we ask her to resign, she'll resign. But I didn't resign. I said, no, there's no reason to resign. You, you should resign, actually. Why are you asking me to resign? So she told me Dan Patrick, Paula. So immediately, imagine how boiling I was. So I tried to get in touch with Paula White. No response. I tried to get in touch with Dan. No response.

• 22:19Tucker Carlson?

  Did you call them or text them or?

• 22:20Speaker 02

  The weirdest part about this commission, I honestly think it's so fake and gay because we didn't even have each other's like phone numbers, emails. Like I had to literally ask, like, hey, can I get Paula White's email? So I actually called her daughter-in-law. Her name's Rachel. She's a pastor, young woman. And I said, hey, Rachel, I said, I just got this disturbing call. I need to talk to Paula immediately. And she's like, okay, let me try to get ahold of her. Paula never called me back.

• 22:48Tucker Carlson?

  What?

• 22:49Speaker 02

  No, I waited for like a week and a half.

• 22:51Tucker Carlson?

  Isn't she required to in the New Testament? If you have a conflict with a fellow Christian. Is it Matthew 18?

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Matthew 18.

• 22:58Tucker Carlson?

  You're good.

• 22:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:59Tucker Carlson?

  But I mean, that's a requirement from Jesus. You've got a problem.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  Go directly to that person.

• 23:03Tucker Carlson?

  Exactly.

• 23:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I did. And she did not want to call me back. And then her daughter in law, I got her on the phone and her daughter in law said, yeah, I talked to my mom. And she said, don't worry about it. There's a lot of snakes in DC. There's a lot of snakes in the White House. And I would just ignore it. And my mother in law loves you, Carrie. Don't worry about it. I think it's just one of the snakes in the White House.

• 23:27Tucker Carlson?

  But Paula White would not speak to you directly?

• 23:28Speaker 02

  No, no. So then finally, after I was on pins and needles for a week and a half, wondering what's going on? Am I on this commission? I emailed everybody. I called Bishop Barron. I got him on the phone. I said, hey, have you been, did you like hear that they tried to remove me? He goes, what? Why would they try to remove you? I said, I have no idea, other than I've been criticizing Israel and, you know, talking about the genocide in Gaza. Sorry, I'm a pro-life Christian. I can't sit here while children are being starved and bombed. And he totally supported me. And he's like, this is insane. You would never be removed from that. Bishop Barron told me that. Talked to Ben Carson. Have you, Ben Carson's on the commission with me. Hey, Ben, did you hear about them trying to remove me from this commission? No, absolutely not. Ignore it.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  I've never heard of anything about this. Kelly Shackelford, same thing. I said, you're a religious liberty attorney for 35 years. Did I do something wrong? Am I not allowed to have my religious freedom while serving on this religious liberty commission? Or do I have to be a Zionist who supports the genocide? Is that the requirements of this commission? He said the same thing. I haven't heard a word. I literally talked to almost everyone on the commission. I talked to Cardinal Dolan in person. I said, they tried to get me off this commission, Cardinal. He goes, what? For what? I said, well, because I've been posting about Gaza. He goes, I just gave humanitarian relief to Gaza. So if they're going to kick you off, I guess they're going to kick me off too. Literally his words, Cardinal Dolan. They all supported me.

• 24:54Tucker Carlson?

  When we started this company, we promised that we would only partner with other companies that share our values. We didn't want to advertise products made by people who hate us, or for that matter, you. So with that in mind, it is a pleasure to announce that we're working with Charity Mobile. It is a pro-life phone company. Charity Mobile holds a view on abortion that almost every single major US company disagrees with. They think it's completely wrong. It is sad, and celebrating it is one of the darkest things this country's ever done, and we agree completely. So when you switch your cell phone service to this American company, they'll donate a percentage of your monthly price plan to a pro-life, pro-family charity that you choose. There's no better way to prove what their

• 25:39Tucker Carlson?

  real values are than doing that. No one would do that unless they meant it. All their plans are under 50 bucks, and you can keep your existing number and your existing phone if it's compatible. Charity Mobile is a pro-life company, serving pro-life customers and supporting pro-life causes, and has done it for more than 30 years. Visit charitymobile.com/tucker. Use promo code TUCKER to get a free phone with free activation, free shipping, and a free gift with every new line of-

• 26:05Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 26:34Speaker 05

  Your joints help you keep doing what you love. Give them daily support with Ancient Nutrition Multi-Collagen Protein. Two scoops deliver 20 grams of collagen from 10 types, including clinically-studied eggshell membrane. Plus, vitamin C and probiotics to support skin, hair, nails, and joint health. Visit ancientnutrition.com/protein and use code PROTEIN for $15 off. That's ancientnutrition.com code PROTEIN.

• 27:01Tucker Carlson?

  ...service. So at this point, you- Believed it was just Paula White.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:07Tucker Carlson?

  Lieutenant, why would the Lieutenant Governor of Texas be on this commission?

• 27:12Speaker 02

  I think that he is a snake. I think him and Paula are together in this and they wanted to get rid of any dissenting voice that goes against their Zionists.

• 27:22Tucker Carlson?

  But why was he on the commission?

• 27:23Speaker 02

  I didn't even know who he was. I had no idea who he was, but I guess Trump appointed him as the chairman of this commission. So then I got a call after I was on pins and needles. I finally got a call and it was Dan and Paula. And I'll never forget, I literally remember every word.

• 27:40Tucker Carlson?

  Dan Patrick and Paula White.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. They called me and they said, hi Carrie, I know you've been worried this past couple of weeks, but Dan started and he goes, I just want to let you know, we've been in meetings about your situation.

• 27:53Tucker Carlson?

  What situation?

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, what situation that I'm posting about, God forbid, I criticize Israel, can't do that while serving in this administration. And he said, you know, I just want to let you know, Carrie, your job on this commission, I'll never forget this Tucker, your job on this commission is protect the president and his reputation. He said that to me the first thing out of his mouth. I couldn't believe it. I go, what? I thought my job is protect religious freedom. I thought that's what he appointed me to do. And he goes, you know, you've been saying things online, Carrie, and you really need to stay off social media. Do not use social media between now and the end of your term. And then Paula

• 28:36Speaker 02

  White chimed in and she said, yeah, Carrie, you know what? You really shouldn't be posting about replacement theology. You shouldn't be posting about that. And there's a lot of people that are saying that you're an anti Semite, Carrie, by your posts. You're criticizing Zionism. You're criticizing Israel.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  And we have a problem with that. And then Dan chimed in again, and he got loud. He got real loud. And he's like, you know, Carrie? Because I pushed back and I said, well, wait a second. I said, what am I posting that is so offensive to you? That's against the rules of this commission? Because I didn't sign anything saying I wasn't going to use my social media. I speak out about things that I care about. I'm a religious person. I'm a Christian. And he said, um, he said, you just, you've been saying things that go against, I'll never forget this. He goes, you've been saying things that are, that are not in alignment with the president and are not in alignment with Paula White and some of the other members on this commission.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  And that's when I knew that this commission was a fraud. It was, it was pretend. It was not about religious freedom. It was about you better be a Zionist, you better push our agenda, or you're off. And that was in August. So we ended the conversation. Dan got really upset because I said, I really do want to keep posting. I'm not going to not use my social media. Can't agree to that, Dan. And he goes, well, why don't you just, if you, if you have any questions about Israel or Gaza, because Paula White chimed in was like, I'm the expert in that. You're just-

• 30:13Tucker Carlson?

  Paula White's an expert in Gaza?

• 30:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I'm the expert in that. You know, I just got back from there and there's no kids starving there. It's all fake, Carrie. It's all, it's all pretend. Yeah. And so she said, if you want-

• 30:23Tucker Carlson?

  She's a Christian minister saying that?

• 30:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:26Tucker Carlson?

  Do you think that she, at any point in the course of a day, feels like, oof, I'm going to have to answer for this at some point?

• 30:33Speaker 02

  No, I think she's just-

• 30:35Tucker Carlson?

  To deny the death of children in the name of Jesus is a pretty heavy thing to do.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  It's pretty sick. It's pretty dark. And she said, I want you, if you have any questions about anything, if you want to post anything, you need to run it by me first.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  So now Paula White, an equal of mine on this commission, is now telling me that I have to get everything approved by her in order to post about my religious beliefs. Is that insane?

• 31:05Tucker Carlson?

  It's making my heart beat fast listening to this. Yes.

• 31:08Speaker 02

  So that's the backstory.

• 31:09Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's completely evil. And I'll just say, I know Paula White, sort of. I know Dan Patrick very well. He's a lot more liberal than I am. He's quite liberal, but I always liked him. You know, he's not stupid at all. And I'm shocked by this. I was shocked by it. It's so disgraceful.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  Me too. I cried, actually. I cried. I cried to my husband. I cried to my kids. I couldn't believe this. I couldn't believe that this was happening in the United States of America, that we care more about protecting a foreign nation than we do our own people.

• 31:45Tucker Carlson?

  Did either one of them, so Dan is a self-described Christian. Paula White is some kind of Christian minister, I guess. I want to be clear. It doesn't look like Christianity to me, but I'm trying not to judge. But did either one of them explain why a requirement of the Christian faith is supporting the Netanyahu government? Do they explain the theology there? Because I don't, I don't understand it.

• 32:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, they never explained it. They just said, you can't have your theology. You can't believe what you want. You have to submit to ours.

• 32:16Tucker Carlson?

  But their theology is that Christians are required, as a matter of faith, to support the government of Israel?

• 32:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 32:24Tucker Carlson?

  Do you have any idea?

• 32:24Speaker 02

  Those who bless Israel will be blessed. It's exactly what Ted told you.

• 32:29Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, I mean, he had no idea where in the Bible it was. Of course, that's not, that line is not actually in the Bible. It doesn't say that. But whatever, the leap between that, whatever that means, it does mean something. And the moral, the religious requirement to support the government of Israel, I mean, those are just like completely two different things.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  No, they don't think they are.

• 32:53Tucker Carlson?

  Did Paula White or Dan Patrick explain where you were wrong on doctrine?

• 32:58Speaker 02

  No. No, they just said, I cannot hold firm to replacement theology, which they don't know Catholics, it's fulfillment theology. We believe that we are the fulfillment. You know, it's not replace. They like to dig us and say, oh, you believe in replacement theology. No, no, no, we're the fulfillment. Christ is the fulfillment of Israel.

• 33:18Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's what it says in the New Testament.

• 33:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 33:23Tucker Carlson?

  I mean, it says it like on every page. So, but they're accusing you of believing in something called replacement theology. For people who don't follow this, and I'm kind of one of them, I don't fully understand what that means. What do they mean by that?

• 33:34Speaker 02

  They believe that, so replacement theology, their claim is that the church has replaced Israel. So for 2,000 years, that's what all of the early church fathers have taught. That we are the new Israel, we're the spiritual Semites.

• 33:46Speaker 02

  They would literally be rolling in their graves if they, if they thought that we were being told that 1948 Israel is some biblical prophecy fulfillment. I mean, that alone is insane. That they think that this political state of Israel that was created in 48, mostly by atheists, is some biblical prophecy being fulfilled. And I mean, you're, you're aware of Darby and Schofield and so these, these, this is the fruit of that, of that, those rotten seeds.

• 34:18Tucker Carlson?

  Is there any other place in America, I mean, in the world, rather, where you have a big group of Christians who believe that 1948 Israel is a fulfillment of prophecy?

• 34:27Speaker 02

  No. In fact, do you know, Tucker, that I asked my priest, who I had several, I had about six priests guiding me before this hearing, spiritually advising me before this hearing, because I wanted to make sure, I need to make sure that I know what I'm saying and that it's actually accurate with what the church teaches. And I'll never forget, he's from Spain, God bless him, he's so, so sweet. And I said, "Father, do you know what Zionism is?" He looked at me like I was an alien and he's like, "What's Zionism?"

• 34:58Speaker 02

  I, I couldn't believe it. I said, "You realize in America that these people like Paula White, Dan Patrick, Ted Cruz, most of our politicians in government who have power, who are in the White House praying over the president, they're Zionists. They believe that 1948 Israel is a biblical prophecy fulfillment." He looked at me like I was crazy. He said, "Nobody's ever taught that." I said, "I know, and now they're forcing it on me, Catholic on this commission."

• 35:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's really scary.

• 35:33Tucker Carlson?

  Well, it's, yeah, and especially since we just, you know, wound up in a war thanks to this. I mean, it's hard not to see this as all preparation for, for this war, which is resetting the world.

• 35:45Speaker 02

  And they had to get rid of the, the only dissenter of that, of Zionism. They had to get rid of her on this commission before the war. It was within weeks.

• 35:57Tucker Carlson?

  That did occur to me, watching this. Why is it so important to crush this woman? Like, okay, she's got views you disagree with. It's a religious liberty commission. You've got, are there Jews on it too?

• 36:08Speaker 02

  One rabbi.

• 36:09Tucker Carlson?

  One rabbi. So he's got different views, you would think. He's Jewish, you're Christian. That's okay.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:16Tucker Carlson?

  It's okay to disagree.

• 36:17Speaker 02

  I know.

• 36:17Tucker Carlson?

  But it's not okay to question the behavior of the secular nation state of Israel. So that tells you it's not really about religious liberty.

• 36:27Speaker 02

  No, not at all.

• 36:28Tucker Carlson?

  It's about.

• 36:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:29Tucker Carlson?

  Comfort that carries you from morning to night is next level. Everyone wants it. That's why we recommend Cozy Earth. You've heard us talk about their pajamas and sheets, and for good reason, they're amazing. But Cozy Earth does not stop there. Their socks are every bit as impressive. Soft breathable cushion to support every step from sunup to sundown. When the day winds down, ladies and gentlemen, that same comfort shows up at night with Cozy Earth's comforter. Soft, light, naturally temperature regulating. That means you stay cool, calm, and comfortable all night. No heaviness, you don't overheat, you just rest deeply. And that's what sets Cozy Earth apart. Every piece is crafted with attention to detail, and it's completely risk-free. You get a hundred-night sleep

• 37:09Tucker Carlson?

  trial and a 10-year warranty. Discover how care in every detail transforms simple routines into actual comfort. Head to CozyEarth.com and use the code TUCKER for up to 20% off. That's code TUCKER for up to 20% off. And if you get a post-purchase survey, take the time to mention you heard about Cozy Earth on this show. So, okay, the upshot of that conversation was what? They call you and tell you you've got to run your social media posts by this priestess?

• 37:38Tucker Carlson?

  And you say no, then what happens?

• 37:40Speaker 02

  So I, I kinda played along with it just to see where it would go. So I didn't stop posting, but I would run things by her. Like that, that kid in Florida who was being detained in Israel.

• 37:51Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  I sent her an email and I said, hey Paula, I said, there's a kid in, you know, Israel that's detained.

• 37:55Tucker Carlson?

  A US citizen.

• 37:56Speaker 02

  A US citizen. I said, we need to, we need to do something about this. I said, I know you have connections with Bibi. Maybe you can call Bibi up and see if you can get him released. This is, this is what I am supposed to do on this commission. This is a US citizen that is being detained, a child in Israel. And nobody's doing anything about it. No response. Then I sent her another email saying, hey Paula, um, there's a bunch of teachers. The Christian schools in, in Israel are being shut down. Because these Palestinian teachers are being told they can't come and, and teach. So these, these Christian schools are going to be closed. Can you, can you, can you help? Can you do something about it? No response.

• 38:38Speaker 02

  So this arrogant woman who had the audacity to ask me to get things run by her in order to post online, doesn't even have the respect to respond. She does not care about religious freedom at all. And that's when, that's when I really knew that I was up against a big, big giant.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  So I just kept posting. And I, I just kept posting more, more and more every day. Because I wasn't gonna allow them to do this to me.

• 39:14Speaker 02

  No, they messed with the wrong person.

• 39:16Tucker Carlson?

  Apparently they did.

• 39:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:18Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I love it so much. I can't stand it. I wish more men were like this.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  I know.

• 39:22Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry to say that. It makes me so sad.

• 39:26Tucker Carlson?

  Anyway, yeah, it's like 90% of the people I know in my world who were like, oh, you told me to violate my principles? I'm doubling down on my principles. They're like 90% women and I don't know what, and I respect and love them all. Truly revere them. But like, half the population's male or we're the men. I don't, I don't get it. I talk to my wife about this all the time. Like, what is that?

• 39:47Speaker 02

  They're afraid.

• 39:48Tucker Carlson?

  It's...

• 39:49Speaker 02

  Well, nobody wants to be called an anti Semite.

• 39:51Tucker Carlson?

  I get it.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  Nobody wants to be called a racist. Nobody wants to go through what you're going through, what I'm going through.

• 39:55Tucker Carlson?

  No, I agree.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  You know, they put you in this box and they shut the door and they say, "Shut up, you anti Semite. You're not allowed in society. We're gonna, we're gonna shame you. We're gonna, we're gonna cancel you. We're gonna destroy you." That's what they do.

• 40:09Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, and of course it raises the chances you're gonna get shot to death by a lot, which is one of the reasons they do it, right? So we had this moment of agreement after Charlie Kirk was killed, that, you know, calling people Nazis can get them killed. And so I immediately, immediately called Mark Levin and Ben Shapiro and I was like, "Wow, you know, we should not fight." They both agreed. Um, and the next thing you know, because they do understand it makes it more likely you'll be killed.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:37Tucker Carlson?

  They're totally pro violence, obviously.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:40Tucker Carlson?

  And, uh, so, yeah, the stakes are super high.

• 40:43Speaker 02

  Very high. I have small children.

• 40:44Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I, I get it.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  I take this very seriously.

• 40:46Tucker Carlson?

  You should take it seriously.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:47Tucker Carlson?

  So then what happened?

• 40:49Speaker 02

  So then I just doubled down. I kept posting. I wasn't getting any responses from Paula. I sent a follow up with the, with the head of the commission saying, "Hey, um, are other commissioners being, uh, told they can't post on social media? Or am I the only one given that guidance?" Yeah. And she sent me an email back saying, "Well, you must have prudence when you post", which I agree with. Um, but none of the other commissioners, Tucker, were told what I was told. They were all posting freely. Dr. Phil was posting. Eric Metaxas, who has his own show, he's posting.

• 41:28Tucker Carlson?

  Eric Metaxas?

• 41:29Speaker 02

  He's on the commission.

• 41:30Tucker Carlson?

  Actually?

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, actually. Crazy. Crazy.

• 41:34Tucker Carlson?

  Wow.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Since, since my removal, he has attacked me like you cannot imagine. Very disappointing.

• 41:43Tucker Carlson?

  Sad, sad guy.

• 41:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:45Tucker Carlson?

  Sad, very troubled guy.

• 41:46Speaker 02

  So, leading up to this hearing, imagine all that backstory. So people only saw that hearing in February, but there was a whole backstory and I kept my mouth shut. I wanted to come out and, and tell the world what they did to me. And I actually was gonna do it on stage that day, but my priest advised me not to.

• 42:07Speaker 02

  I don't know if I should have or shouldn't have, but I kinda wanted to call Paula White and Dan Patrick out to their face, front of the world.

• 42:14Tucker Carlson?

  So this all leads up to the hearing last month?

• 42:16Speaker 02

  Yes, the anti-Semitism hearing.

• 42:18Tucker Carlson?

  And so, did you have contact with anybody else on the commission that day before the hearing?

• 42:25Speaker 02

  Uh, no. So the way it works is before the hearing, once we request our witnesses,

• 42:31Speaker 02

  we get a whole 40-page rundown of everything they're gonna say, who they are, what they're gonna speak about, so we can prepare to ask them questions and kinda go back and forth, take notes and all that. And so, I realized I hadn't gotten the paper yet. I hadn't gotten the who was speaking. And I had requested four Jewish Americans who are facing true anti-Semitism here in America. And they were all four rejected. Why? Because they're not Zionists. You had to be a certain kinda Jew in order to be accepted.

• 43:07Tucker Carlson?

  They were rejected?

• 43:08Speaker 02

  They were rejected.

• 43:09Tucker Carlson?

  By whom?

• 43:10Speaker 02

  By the commission. Whoever calls the shots, I have no idea. It's so unorganized. I honestly don't even know how this commission works, unfortunately. It's embarrassing to say that, to admit it. But I don't know who approves these. I recommended Norm Finkelstein, who he's written books about. I mean, he is so knowledgeable on this.

• 43:32Tucker Carlson?

  Son of Holocaust survivors.

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. Who better? Who better to speak on this than Norm?

• 43:37Tucker Carlson?

  Norm Finkelstein, who else?

• 43:39Speaker 02

  Miko Pallad. He's an Israeli citizen, raised there in Israel, and now he runs a Palestinian organization, does tremendous work. And then this guy David Spelvick in New York, he's out of New York. And then I requested a rabbi, a Jewish rabbi, who's been fighting against Zionism for over 40 years.

• 44:04Tucker Carlson?

  What they call a Torah Jew, I assume, a believer in the Torah, not the...

• 44:09Speaker 02

  He says he's an Orthodox. That's how he... Yeah. So, yeah.

• 44:13Tucker Carlson?

  There are a lot of those. I know a bunch of them.

• 44:14Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. They're all anti-Zionists. Yeah.

• 44:18Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 44:19Speaker 02

  So, anyway, they were all rejected. I requested two Palestinian Christian organizations to speak, just to have a fair and balanced hearing. I want it to be fair and balanced. They were rejected too. Yeah, unfortunately. So I'm on the plane heading to DC before the hearing. I still haven't gotten the rundown of who's accept, who are, who am I going to be hearing from? So I send an email, hey, um, wondering where the rundown is. I need to prepare. I'm on the plane. I need to prepare for this hearing tomorrow. Okay, yeah, we'll send it over soon. Never sent it. Never got it from them. I had to, I had to email Kelly Shackelford and say, hey, Kelly, did you receive any preparations for this hearing? Oh, yeah, yeah, they sent it a couple of weeks ago. So they purposely did not send me the rundown.

• 45:04Speaker 02

  I, I believe, I believe they wanted to leave me out of it. So I wasn't prepared. But I was prepared.

• 45:10Tucker Carlson?

  So you had no idea who's going to appear at the hearing?

• 45:12Speaker 02

  No idea. No idea. And the only way I knew Norm wasn't accepted and Miko and David and the rabbis, they told me we weren't accepted. And it broke my heart because there is true antisemitism happening.

• 45:24Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, that's for sure. So most home security systems are built like the cable internet. They're tied to one address. And if you move or if the job moves, you got to start over. But that is not how construction sites, ranches, large properties do their security. They need cameras that are portable, not tied to one location. Defend security cameras are the perfect solution for them and for you. With Defend, you own the camera. You're not renting it and you're not locked to building a wifi network. Okay. When the job moves, the camera moves with it. No power lines or infrastructure required of any kind. These run on cellular like your smartphone. They're perfect for watching job site equipment overnight, livestock at your ranch, long driveways and outbuildings on your property,

• 46:08Tucker Carlson?

  or whatever else you want to watch from afar. You mount it where you need it. You open the Defend app and you're set. Clear footage, night vision alerts, straight to your phone. And Defend never sells your data to anybody. Not tech companies, not the government, not China. Plans start at about five bucks a month. No contract, cancel anytime. Visit defendcellcam.com today and enter the code TUCKER for 20% off your purchase. That's defendcellcam.com code Tucker for 20%.

• 46:38Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 47:08Speaker 06

  When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want, like all the way.

• 47:18Speaker 06

  Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your cha-chings from every channel right in one spot and turn real time reporting into big time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today.

• 47:37Tucker Carlson?

  Wow, this is really dark.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  It is.

• 47:40Tucker Carlson?

  So how did you feel flying to Washington?

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Scared. I was scared for my life. You know, most of the commissioners stay at the Museum of the Bible because that's where the hearing is. I had requested that I stay there due to my safety. They rejected that. I stayed at a random hotel across the way.

• 47:55Tucker Carlson?

  They wouldn't let you stay there?

• 47:56Speaker 02

  No, I requested, I said, hey, I don't feel safe. You know, I'm traveling alone.

• 48:02Speaker 02

  No, no, I said for my safety, I'd like to stay at the museum. That way I just go down the elevator and I'm there at the hearing. No. So I had a Muslim woman who has become a dear friend, like a sister. She's on the advisory board to this commission. She's one of the only Muslim representatives. So there's 30 advisory board members and then there's the 12 commissioners. So I said, hey, Samira, I said, would you mind meeting me at my hotel and walking with me over like, I don't really feel safe walking alone. Sure, yeah. So she met me in my hotel lobby and I got a text at 7:30 in the morning. The hearing was supposed to start at eight. We were supposed to arrive at 7:45 and it was from Dan Patrick. And he said, meet me in this room for a meeting with me and Paula.

• 48:48Speaker 02

  I was like, oh, you guys want to play dirty? Last, last hour, you want to play dirty? Okay. So I didn't respond. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna engage in that. I'm, I'm here for the Religious Liberty Commission. And I knew this hearing was very important. So I did not respond. So as soon as I get to the Museum of the Bible, go in the VIP entrance, back door, Samira's with me. Brittany Baldwin comes up. And she, remember, she was one of the ones that the White House mentioned that they spoke to about my resignation. So I'm already on to her.

• 49:18Tucker Carlson?

  And she was a former Ted Cruz staffer.

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. And so she came up to me and goes, oh, Carrie, um, Dan Patrick wants to meet you in the room with Paula. And I said, I don't feel comfortable meeting with him alone. I'm sorry. Unless Samira's welcome, I'll come with her, but I'm not coming alone. She got very nervous and was like, oh, um, okay, um, I'll let him know. And I said, okay, let him know. So she made Samira go and I went to the back with all the commissioners. And so I'm sitting back there. At that point, I'm like at a 10, like I had probably have smoke coming out of my ears.

• 49:53Tucker Carlson?

  I'm at a 10 just hearing this.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Oh, it, Tucker, this has been going on far too long. Like, these people are relentless. And they thought that they could bully me, a mom in California. But they didn't know what they were up against because I was not going to back down. So I walk in the back, Dan Patrick is in there with, with Ben Carson. And I believe Paula White was already in there. And I'd walk right past, go to the back, start, you know, preparing because thank God Kelly sent me the, the list.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  And I'm just to myself and Eric Metaxas comes up and he goes, what's wrong with you? And I go, really? Do you want to know what's wrong with me? I said, were you told that you can't post on social media? While you serve on this commission or was it just me?

• 50:38Speaker 02

  I, I know you're a Zionist, so you're probably safe. But I'm not a Zionist. So I was told I can't post about my position on Israel. I can't post criticism of Israel. And he looks at me like I was crazy and he's like, what? They told you you can't post? I said, yeah, they told me I can't post. I said, that's what's going on, Eric. That's what's going on. And now they're trying to do an intervention meeting right before the hearing with Dan and Paula and Ben. I said, but I'm not going. And he goes, well, yeah, yeah. I mean, this is, this is crazy. I said, I know you're a Zionist and that's fine. You're entitled to your beliefs. I'm entitled to mine, but you can't force me to, to believe what you believe. This is a Religious Liberty Commission. We should all be diverse. We shouldn't all be the same, right, Eric? Yeah, right.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  So then Brittany comes back and she goes, okay, Dan said Samira can come. So I'm going to bring Samira up. I said, great. I'd like a witness there. So she was bringing Samira up and I looked at Eric and I go, hey, I go, do you mind coming with me? I said, you remind me a lot of my dad. And my dad passed away a couple of years ago. I said, I would really appreciate it if you would come with me so I don't have to come alone. And he goes, well, do I have to? And I go, yeah, I'd like you to. Man up and come with me. So he came with me. So it's me, Eric and Samira. We walk in, Ben Carson, Dan Patrick, Paula White and Brittany are in there. And right away it was like heated. And Dan looks at me and he goes, how do you think this Religious Liberty Commission has been going, Carrie? I said, it's been going great.

• 52:06Speaker 02

  I've really enjoyed being on this commission. And he goes, well, I just want to know, what are you going to say today? Yeah, yeah. And I go, what am I going to say today? What are you going to say today, Dan? Are we going to talk about a foreign country? Because whatever you're going to say, I'm going to say. So if you're going to talk about Israel, I'm going to talk about Gaza. Okay?

• 52:36Speaker 02

  I'm literally talking to these politicians like they're five year olds. Like they're my kids. I'm like, you guys can't be this dumb. Like, I know you think I'm dumb, but I'm not. I'm smarter than I look, I guess. You guys thought I was dumb. You thought I was just going to be on this commission and play along to get along.

• 52:54Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, the beauty queen, we can boss her around.

• 52:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, we can boss the dumb blonde around. Throw her around, tell her what to do, nobody else. Yeah, so it got very heated.

• 53:03Tucker Carlson?

  So what did he say when you said that?

• 53:06Speaker 02

  He goes, "Well, I mean, you posted yesterday at the airplane, they're tracking every move I make, and they're seeing everything I post," which is good. I did that on purpose.

• 53:15Tucker Carlson?

  Why do they care? You've got one commissioner who's not on the program. Like, why is that a problem?

• 53:20Speaker 02

  They're obsessed with me. I don't know. So he goes, and Brittany Baldwin is in the corner, and she goes, "Yeah, I can pull it up. Here it is. You posted that you are so proud to serve on this Religious Liberty Commission, and something about you're not going to be bullied by the Zionist supremacists, and you posted a #FreePalestine hashtag."

• 53:41Speaker 02

  I literally started laughing. I go, "You guys are ridiculous." I said, "This is a hearing on antisemitism." And I said, "And by the way, did you accept any of my witnesses that I recommended, Dan? Brittany, Ben, Paula? Did you accept them?" "No." "Why not?"

• 54:02Speaker 02

  "Why not? They're Jewish Americans that are facing antisemitism." "Oh, you don't want them because they're not Zionists? Because they don't believe what you believe about Israel? They've been fighting against Zionism for 40 years? You don't want people like that?" Oh, I got mad. But I kept my cool. They didn't know what to say. And they go, "Well, you had reposted something saying that we weren't accepting..." I said, "Yeah, you weren't accepting any of my witnesses. You accepted none of them. And thank God, Kelly Shackelford gave me the witness list, so I knew

• 54:35Speaker 02

  who was speaking today." I said, "You guys didn't even send me the list of the speakers. You guys did that on purpose, didn't you?" I called them all out by name. And then I look over at Eric, and I go, "Eric, by the way, while we're here, I said, "Were you told that you can't post on social media, or was it just me, Paula? Did you have to get your posts run through Paula in order to post and use your social media, your private social media page? Or did you only tell me, Paula?"

• 55:03Speaker 02

  I said, "The audacity that it takes." I said, "Thank God I know my rights. You don't control me."

• 55:10Speaker 02

  And I said, Paula, wait till the public finds out about this. They're not going to be happy with you. You tried to censor me while serving on a religious liberty commission. You tried to force me to believe what you believe. You forced me to adopt your religion and I won't do it. And that's why you're angry. And then Dan got really weird and he's like, well, you've been posting about Charlie Kirk. It was so weird.

• 55:33Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, they didn't like it when you posted about Charlie Kirk?

• 55:35Speaker 02

  No, they said, you've been questioning, you know, who assassinated him? I go, oh, wow. God forbid I question anything. I have to be a robot, right, Dan?

• 55:45Tucker Carlson?

  No one's been convicted, by the way.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  Right, that's what I said. I said, this is an ongoing investigation. I have every right.

• 55:51Tucker Carlson?

  And moreover, I don't think this kind of behavior puts people's concerns to rest.

• 55:55Speaker 02

  It was very odd. It was very odd.

• 55:57Tucker Carlson?

  Ruthlessness, cruelty, single-minded devotion to like some weird culty cause. Like, that doesn't make me feel better at all.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, shut up and obey.

• 56:08Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. But they didn't like that, huh?

• 56:11Speaker 02

  No, because I don't obey them. They don't like that.

• 56:16Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I'm trying not to get, okay, so, wow. So how is this resolved?

• 56:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the meeting was supposed to start at, I think it was supposed to start at 8:30 or 9. It ended up being late, like the hearing started late because it was this heated. And Ben Carson's sitting there half asleep. I'm like, come on, Ben, like, what are you doing? Stand up and speak up for me. You know, I'm being literally attacked by all these people. Thank God Samira was with me and she's so soft spoken and sweet. And she stood up and she's like, you know, there is suffering going on in Gaza. You guys realize that, right? I'm one of the only Muslims on this commission. Like, can you not just accept that? Like, and then Eric was super rude to her. He's like, who are you and why are you here? It was so disrespectful. Felt so bad for her.

• 57:00Tucker Carlson?

  So is Eric Metaxas's position that there's no suffering in Gaza? Or that it's immoral to talk about it?

• 57:06Speaker 02

  Well, of course justified because we're trained that no Muslim is worth defending, right?

• 57:12Tucker Carlson?

  How is that a Christian perspective?

• 57:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not. It's not a Christian perspective. And I feel I was the only one living out my Christian faith, saying, wait a second, there's suffering in Gaza, there's a genocide happening, there's a Holocaust happening. Why am I not allowed to post about it? Oh, because it goes against the president and your job is to protect the president. And Dan did say that again in the, in the intervention hearing, I remember. He said, you know, you're, you're just saying things that go against the president and to serve on this commission is a privilege. It's a privilege. And you're abusing that privilege. Ultimately, is what he said.

• 57:52Tucker Carlson?

  As I've said, I know everybody, almost everybody in the room and I like everybody just as a default. So it's so distressing to hear this. It's so distressing to hear this. Shocking to me.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:05Tucker Carlson?

  Changes how have you, a lot of these people.

• 58:08Speaker 02

  Many of them are owned, unfortunately.

• 58:10Tucker Carlson?

  That's obvious. And there's also clearly some, there's a supernatural quality to this. I mean, you can't pay most people enough to defend the murder of children. So I do think there's a way in which they're under a spell.

• 58:23Speaker 02

  I know, it's so sad.

• 58:25Tucker Carlson?

  You know, and, and I will say, Evaric Metaxas, who wrote a very long book celebrating Martin Luther, not a Zionist.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:33Tucker Carlson?

  Martin Luther, the author of, on the Jews and their lies. And so it's a little weird. I don't know, speaking of antisemitism. I mean, what?

• 58:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 58:44Tucker Carlson?

  But anyway, whatever, I don't want to get in the weeds. Okay, so the point of this was to get you within boundaries before the hearing opened, but that didn't work.

• 58:55Speaker 02

  No.

• 58:56Tucker Carlson?

  So then what happened in the hearing?

• 58:57Speaker 02

  So imagine I'm now like, I mean, the anger that I had, I can't even describe because this has been building for months now. And so it was, it was at an all time high. And so when we left the meeting, went on stage, I'm like shaking. I'm like shaking, I could cry, I could scream, like I'm just like, and I just, I just prayed and I'm like, okay, Lord, like I, I need to just stay calm. I have to get through this hearing. This is a five hour hearing and I got to get through it. And I need to, I need to be poised. I need to be respectful. I can't let my anger get to me and I have to remain a Christian during this hearing. I cannot give them a reason to say, you're not a Christian.

• 59:42Speaker 02

  And so it just started.

• 59:43Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you. Thank you for doing that.

• 59:46Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 59:48Tucker Carlson?

  Thank you. Again, as I said at the outset, people get, this has happened to me like a thousand times, you just get so mad.

• 59:54Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:55Tucker Carlson?

  That you say something cruel, you overstate what you believe, you get personal, you're not a good representative of the faith at all. You become a terrible representative because you get angry. And it's been a constant struggle for me my whole life, and I usually fail. That's why, again, I was just amazed by your testimony because it was so controlled. You kept control, which is essential. Man, you succeeded. So then, okay, what happened? You go into the room, and what happened?

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I go into the room, and then, you know, they bring out the witnesses, the first witnesses, and, you know, it goes one after the other, after the other, and then it opens up to the commissioners to ask questions. And so, right away, I'm thinking, okay, so this guy said, you know, I was, I faced, you know, antisemitism on a college campus. Okay, I'm genuinely sorry that you experienced that. And I voiced that. I said, can we say that what happened to you is wrong, but then also say that the students who are peacefully protesting on these college campuses have every right to do that because they're protesting the killing of over 70,000 innocent civilians in Gaza? Can we not say the two things are

• 1:01:07Speaker 02

  wrong? Can we not say, yes, what you experienced as a Jewish person not being able to, you know, access to your classroom, or whatever his situation was, I forget what it was, something like that. He ended up suing, I think, and winning. So, you know, good for him. So whatever he experienced was true antisemitism, I guess. But then also, can you say that what's going on in Gaza is wrong? And he was like, no, no, no, no, no. No, there's no genocide in Gaza. The genocide was on October 7. And I'm thinking, these people are so... Lost. How can you not say that killing 70,000 innocent civilians is wrong? Just say it's wrong.

• 1:01:51Tucker Carlson?

  Because you don't believe in universal principles. You don't believe that every person was created by God.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:57Tucker Carlson?

  And has inherent worth.

• 1:02:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:00Tucker Carlson?

  Some people are valuable and others are not. I mean, that's where that comes from, is that?

• 1:02:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're superior.

• 1:02:07Tucker Carlson?

  Yes, I just reject that as a Christian.

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  I do too.

• 1:02:08Tucker Carlson?

  Period.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  I do too.

• 1:02:09Tucker Carlson?

  Period. I don't think Christian life is more valuable than a Jewish life, or a Muslim life, or a Hindu life. I just don't think that.

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it started there.

• 1:02:18Tucker Carlson?

  So you said that, and this witness.

• 1:02:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:22Tucker Carlson?

  Do you remember who it was?

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, Shabbos Kestenbaum. He was one of them. I don't remember the other names, but he was the one that said, oh, no, there's no genocide in Gaza. The genocide was on October 7th.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  That's when I knew this hearing was gonna get intense. Because this hearing was on antisemitism. And then I realized, well, we have to define the terms. What is antisemitism? So I quoted IHRA definition. I said, you know, if by saying the Jews killed Jesus, that is, according to IHRA definition of antisemitism. So one of the pastors who was testifying, I said, does it concern you? Does it concern you as a pastor that certain parts of the Bible are gonna be considered hate speech?

• 1:03:07Tucker Carlson?

  The Christian parts, yeah.

• 1:03:08Speaker 02

  And he goes, well, the Jews did kill Jesus. And I said, do you realize you're making an antisemitic statement right now, Mr. Pastor?

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  This is the cognitive dissonance that these people have. They don't even know what the... I mean, IHRA is a pretty broad definition across most states. So it's pretty serious. And so I was starting to think, okay, so is equating criticism of Israel being a Jew hater? So I said, is anti-Zionism antisemitism? Because I'm not a Zionist. That has nothing to do with someone's right to exist as a human being. Of course, everybody has a right to exist by God, but...

• 1:03:54Speaker 02

  Anti-Zionism is antisem- and I pressed him and I said, yes or no? Yes or no on the record? And he said, yes. And I was shocked. I was shocked. I was so disappointed that all the commissioners with big titles, big degrees, they didn't chime in and say, wait a second. Anti-a political ideology doesn't make you a Jew hater. That's what I'm disappointed in.

• 1:04:23Tucker Carlson?

  Well, the definition is inherently an attack on Christianity.

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:28Tucker Carlson?

  That, I mean, by definition, if you write a definition that would ban the New Testament, then it's an anti-Christian document. But I guess it's been adopted by various states.

• 1:04:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the scary part. That's the scary, in this state right now, in Florida, right now. That's what's scary. I never thought, being in California, I was more free than people that live in Florida. But this is where it's going. It's very dangerous. And I was the only Christian that was willing, the youngest person in that room. I'm just a dumb blonde pageant girl. Who am I? What do I know? No, it's, it's common sense. Wait a second. You're saying that if I don't believe that 1948 is real, and I said this, people can verify. I don't believe as a Catholic that 1948, the modern state of Israel,

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  has any biblical fulfillment prophecy at all, meaning at all. I don't believe that and I have a right not to believe that. I don't believe that. Why are you forcing me to believe that? Shut up, you antisemite. That, that's what I got back. You're, you're a hateful bigot if you don't believe that. I was disobedient to them. And that's all I was doing was asking questions. And the logical conclusion of what they were saying is yes, anti-Zionism is antisemitism. And I quoted the rabbi who didn't get to come, that was denied. I quoted him. And he's been speaking out about Zionism for 40 years. He said, so are you calling me a Jewish rabbi an anti Semite now? Is that where we're going with this?

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  So a Jewish rabbi is an anti Semite now, according to their definition. This is at a, this is at a Religious Liberty Commission hearing from the president. And nobody chimed in and said, wait a second, I have a problem with that. That's dangerous. Let's not, let's not say that. So a Jewish rabbi is being called an anti Semite. And then I said, I'm a Catholic. I don't believe 1948 political state of Israel has any biblical prophecy fulfillment meaning at all. So does that make me an anti Semite? Are all Catholics anti Semites, according to you? And essentially it was yes.

• 1:06:44Tucker Carlson?

  The, the tape is almost unbelievable. I'm so glad that you forced this and I'm so glad that you revealed these people for who they really are. This isn't a minor doctrinal point. This is like the very center of the question of religious liberty.

• 1:06:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:07:00Tucker Carlson?

  If you're not allowed to believe that, then you don't have religious liberty. Then the first amendment isn't real. And it, it also, this is an attack on traditional Christianity. So it has to be defended by Christian leaders. I think the right to believe what you say you believe, which is not hateful, of course, in the slightest.

• 1:07:18Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:07:18Tucker Carlson?

  It is inconvenient if you want to use American troops to fight Israel's wars. What kind of response did you get from the other commissioners at this?

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  After?

• 1:07:27Tucker Carlson?

  During?

• 1:07:29Speaker 02

  A lot of them just stayed silent. They were too afraid, I think.

• 1:07:33Tucker Carlson?

  Did a single one of the other 11 rise to defend your right to say what you were saying?

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  Oh, of course not. No, they have all corporations to protect and businesses protect and, you know, big donors to please. So why would they? I was literally the only free person on that stage. The mom in California.

• 1:07:51Tucker Carlson?

  How did it end?

• 1:07:53Speaker 02

  It ended with, there was a guy in the audience that kept heckling, and I eventually looked over at Dan, and I said, "He needs to be removed." Like, this is, you know?

• 1:08:03Tucker Carlson?

  Heckling you?

• 1:08:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, he kept heckling me, that's, you know, yelling things at me, booing me. There was a lot of, um, and I noticed there was a lot of Jewish rabbis in the audience. I don't know, there wasn't a lot of people in the audience. Normally, it's filled, because anybody can go.

• 1:08:17Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:08:17Speaker 02

  Um, but there was a lot of boos. Every time I would say, "I'm a Catholic," boo, and it was very hostile. And it was, I felt like it was, it was, my voice wasn't welcome there, obviously. And then Dan had the audacity to interrupt me when I said, "So, so are you claiming that all Catholics that are not Zionists are antisemites? Is that what you're saying?" And he's like, "Well, I'm gonna interrupt. I'm gonna interrupt right now, Carrie."

• 1:08:44Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  Why? I said, "This, this, this discussion is very important. This is very important."

• 1:08:53Tucker Carlson?

  And what did he say?

• 1:08:55Speaker 02

  He let us continue, and we were just going back and forth, back and forth with these witnesses. And I was very respectful, very respectful. I didn't raise my voice, I didn't get angry. I laughed a few times, told Sabos Kestenbaum that we should get coffee, or, you know? "We need to be having these discussions. We need more speech, not less." They didn't want my voice. So after the hearing was over, there was a, uh, my priest was there. He came and, and watched, and he was very proud of me. There was another Orthodox priest there, and he said, "I'm so proud of you. I, I can't believe you, you did this." I said, "It, it had to be done. It had to be done."

• 1:09:37Tucker Carlson?

  What were the other commissioners like after the hearing?

• 1:09:40Speaker 02

  I didn't speak to one of them, and I haven't spoken to any of them since.

• 1:09:44Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 1:09:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:47Tucker Carlson?

  So this immediately goes up on the internet. What's the next communication you have from the White House for the commission?

• 1:09:55Speaker 02

  So I got a text the next day, and it was from Dan Patrick. He tried calling me, but I, I didn't answer. I thought I would just get it in writing. And he said, "Um, I tried calling you, you know, your voicemail box is full. I'm letting you know effective, immediately, that you have been removed from the Religious Liberty Commission."

• 1:10:15Tucker Carlson?

  Did he explain why?

• 1:10:25Speaker 02

  I honestly, I couldn't believe it. I was like, back in 2009, I stood up for my faith and now I'm doing the same thing. This is what got me on this commission. Why would I be removed? What is going on? This is the United States of America. Haven't we made progress?

• 1:10:42Tucker Carlson?

  No.

• 1:10:43Speaker 02

  Don't we have religious freedom in this country? You can't express it honestly and respectfully and civilly? Like, what is going on? I literally just cried when I got it. I'm like, this is so sad for my children, for my grandchildren.

• 1:11:00Tucker Carlson?

  You can see where it's going, too.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:02Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  And so he said at the very end of the text, it was a short text, "This is my decision." The audacity, the audacity that he has to claim he has authority to make this firing. This is my decision. No, Dan, you're an equal of mine. You have no authority.

• 1:11:20Tucker Carlson?

  I don't think Dan's making any of his own decisions in general.

• 1:11:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, none of those people are.

• 1:11:25Tucker Carlson?

  No, of course not. It's my decision.

• 1:11:27Speaker 02

  And I will say Bishop Barron and Cardinal Dolan were not there that day.

• 1:11:30Tucker Carlson?

  They were not at the hearing.

• 1:11:31Speaker 02

  They were not at the hearing that day. I would have loved for them to be there. That would have been great.

• 1:11:35Tucker Carlson?

  So you, as I recall, because I was watching all this from afar, said, "Nope, can't remove me."

• 1:11:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:43Tucker Carlson?

  Because you didn't appoint me.

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  Nope. I did a little investigating online and I researched, you know, how this commission was established and the executive order. And I realized, wait a second. The only person that has the authority to remove me is the president himself.

• 1:12:00Tucker Carlson?

  Did you talk to Trump at any point?

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  No, I tried to get a phone call with him. I tried to contact, you know, some of his family members that I'm close with. I mean, I've been a friend of his for almost 20 years. I've been to both inaugurations. I mean, I used to have his personal cellphone. I'd call him. I mean, we're buddies. He was like a second father to me. Nobody would respond back. So Dan sent that text. I sent a text back and I said, "You have no authority to remove me, Dan." And then that was it?

• 1:12:37Tucker Carlson?

  I noticed that a number of members of the commission began attacking you as an anti Semite.

• 1:12:46Tucker Carlson?

  Who did that? And what did they say?

• 1:12:49Speaker 02

  Eric Metaxas did that.

• 1:12:52Speaker 02

  I think he called me.

• 1:12:55Speaker 02

  I don't remember the names that he called me horrible names, but.

• 1:12:58Tucker Carlson?

  He called you names?

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which was so sad to me because I'm like, you were with me in that hearing. You heard that I had to vet everything through this like, you know what they're doing to me is wrong.

• 1:13:11Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:12Speaker 02

  And you don't have the courage to stand up for my religious freedom. Just do your job, Eric.

• 1:13:16Tucker Carlson?

  And then to call you a bigot, an anti Semite.

• 1:13:19Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:13:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what they do though. Because once they say that to you.

• 1:13:24Tucker Carlson?

  Everyone knows Eric Metaxas. I mean, that's like behavior.

• 1:13:29Tucker Carlson?

  And I know that Eric has a lot of personal problems and I assume that's what this is about, but it's still.

• 1:13:37Tucker Carlson?

  It's just one of the most shocking things I've ever seen.

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  It's so sad.

• 1:13:39Tucker Carlson?

  And he never called you and said, hey, Carrie, I'm going to call you an anti Semite. Let's talk about the views that you have that I believe are anti Semitic. Let's talk this through.

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:13:47Tucker Carlson?

  No. And Dan Patrick didn't do that either.

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  No. Nope. They didn't want to have a dialogue.

• 1:13:53Tucker Carlson?

  That is the most disgraceful behavior I can imagine.

• 1:13:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, it really is. It really is. Because out of all the people that Trump could have appointed for this position, he appointed me. And I, at first I felt unqualified. But now I feel I'm one of the most qualified because I am protecting religious freedom. Even faiths that I don't hold firm to. I'm protecting the Jewish rabbi.

• 1:14:19Tucker Carlson?

  I agree.

• 1:14:19Speaker 02

  I'm protecting the Muslim woman on the commission, her religious freedom and my own, of course.

• 1:14:25Tucker Carlson?

  And the Jewish Zionists, by the way.

• 1:14:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:27Tucker Carlson?

  And everybody's.

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  You have every right not to.

• 1:14:29Tucker Carlson?

  This is a universal principle. It applies to every human being. It's not, and the reintroduction of identity politics by this administration is the single saddest thing. I think everyone voted against it. I think every person who voted for Trump was like, no, well, not every person, but most people are like, identity politics blows up the country. It destroys any cohesion. You start thinking about everything in terms of my group. And things fall apart and the left has pushed that for 50 years. And now, all of a sudden, you've got Paula White and Dan Patrick and Eric Metaxas, of all people, pushing identity politics in a way that'll totally wreck the country. Come on now.

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:15:11Tucker Carlson?

  And that degrades the Christian message into something unrecognizable and evil.

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what it is.

• 1:15:18Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I know. So, did any member of the Commission reach out to you, any of the other 11, to say, "Wow, you're not a Zionist, therefore you're an anti-Semite. This is horrible. I'm sorry. We're on your side."

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  Not one.

• 1:15:31Tucker Carlson?

  Are you serious?

• 1:15:32Speaker 02

  Not one. No. In fact, I reached out to a few of them who are friends of mine, who I felt I could trust. Kelly Shackelford, I reached out to. Cardinal Dolan, Bishop Barron. I reached out to Bishop Cordellione in San Francisco, who's on the advisory board. And I said, "Hey, I feel like I'm a sheep surrounded by wolves and I need a shepherd. Can you help?" And a lot of them, I think, Tucker, if I'm being honest, are too scared.

• 1:16:08Tucker Carlson?

  Did any? I know two of the three. I know Barron, whom I respect, who's very smart. And I know Dolan, who's just a politician, but very charming, I'll say. Dolan is very charming. Who doesn't like Dolan? Everyone likes Dolan. But so I know two of the three, and they didn't speak up in your defense or in the defense of religious liberty?

• 1:16:28Speaker 02

  No. No, Bishop Barron, we were texting a little bit yesterday and I, you know, just, I said, "I'm going on Tucker. I know you're friends with Tucker." I said, "I would love to know, like, do you support the Commission removing me from my religious freedom? Or like, where do you stand?" You know? And he wrote me back and he was very nice and, you know, he agreed with my stance that we as Catholics don't have to believe in some, you know, prophesied fulfillment, being fulfilled with 1948 Israel. Like, that's literally what I said. So I think he, I know he agrees with me. I mean, it's, it's... Most Catholics agree with me.

• 1:17:06Tucker Carlson?

  But to include a political statement in the catechism, which is basically what they're trying to do, I have to believe in the modern secular state of Israel, or I can't be a Christian. Like, that's a foundational thing. People have been martyred over less than that. Like, no, this is my faith. I'm not going to betray it. And all of a sudden, you're being told that to be a Christian, you have to be a Zionist. You have to be on board with a political program.

• 1:17:30Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. And I must support a genocide. That's a requirement, too. And I cannot speak out about it if I see it or hear about it.

• 1:17:38Tucker Carlson?

  I just got this from our producer. So I just want to interrupt your amazing story, which I find so upsetting. It's, my heart is pounding. This is a note I just got. As we speak, meaning right now, as we're doing this taping, there's an antisemitism symposium happening in DC. Ted Cruz, Tom Cotton, and the rest, the usuals, are speaking. Dan Patrick was just on stage attacking Carrie, you. He said she was guilty of two things on the day of the Religious Liberties Hearing. First, he said any talk of Gaza is a political matter and has nothing to do with religion. He says she was off base mentioning the war. Two,

• 1:18:18Tucker Carlson?

  he said it was unacceptable that she went against Seth Dillon when she denied his claim that Candace is antisemitic. I want to go through these in just a second. Last line. Dan Patrick bragged that he fired Carrie, and he got a round of applause. Let me just say, this is like, a description of the end stage of something. This is the end of Christian Zionism, this kind of behavior. We'll look back on this. Like, every one of these moral panics reaches its, you know, full fruition at a certain point, which is peak crazy, I guess that's the phrase. And it's like, they're arresting people for complimenting, you know, a woman's dress. Like, that was the kind of peak crazy of Me Too. Black Lives

• 1:19:03Tucker Carlson?

  Matter, we're like, kissing black people's feet or something. It's like, too nuts, right? That's what this is for Christian Zionism. This is so bonkers that I think it's over. That's just my guess. Okay.

• 1:19:15Speaker 02

  That's shocking.

• 1:19:16Tucker Carlson?

  So let me just- Any talk of Gaza is a political matter. Let me throw that to you. What's your response to that?

• 1:19:23Speaker 02

  Any talk of Gaza is a political matter? So why was this hearing? I actually tallied how many times they talked about Israel, October 7th. It, I had to stop counting. So we were, we were talking about a foreign country. And I look over at Dan and I'm like, we're talking about a foreign country. So what is this hearing about? Like, what is the purpose of this hearing? I thought it was a hearing on true antisemitism in, in America. But it was hijacked by Dan Patrick and Paula White and whoever denied my four Jewish Americans that weren't welcome to speak because they're not Zionists. It was hijacked by those people. So what we're getting at is if you criticize Israel,

• 1:20:07Speaker 02

  you're done for. They want to destroy you. And if you dare to speak out about Gaza.

• 1:20:13Tucker Carlson?

  Destroy you.

• 1:20:13Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. They want to kill you. They want to kill you.

• 1:20:17Tucker Carlson?

  Got that.

• 1:20:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. I've had, I've had some things. I'll just say.

• 1:20:22Tucker Carlson?

  Has Dan Patrick rushed to your defense? Has Eric Metaxas rushed?

• 1:20:24Speaker 02

  Oh, no. No, no, no, no. He's taking pride in his removal of Kerry.

• 1:20:31Tucker Carlson?

  So they're conflating. I mean, I would be delighted to remove politics entirely from religion. I believe strongly in separation of church and state because I don't want my faith to be corrupted by political leaders. I don't want my religion to be political. Jesus didn't spend any time talking about politics. They wanted him to come and liberate Jerusalem as a political leader. He refused and rode in on a donkey and then allowed himself to be tortured to death. So like, I'm with him. Let's take the politics out. But they're the ones who conflate Christian faith with a political agenda of Bibi Netanyahu.

• 1:21:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Who, who Bibi is basically an atheist, I think. Right? I mean, I don't think he's a religious person at all.

• 1:21:13Tucker Carlson?

  Well, he doesn't keep to Mosaic law. We know that.

• 1:21:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:16Tucker Carlson?

  Um, there may be, you know, who knows? Like.

• 1:21:18Speaker 02

  Which I thought your interview with Mike Huckabee was amazing, by the way.

• 1:21:22Tucker Carlson?

  It's just.

• 1:21:23Speaker 02

  It was, it was very sad, though.

• 1:21:25Tucker Carlson?

  It was.

• 1:21:25Speaker 02

  Very sad.

• 1:21:26Tucker Carlson?

  It was, yeah. I think he felt that way, too. He's been attacking me ever since.

• 1:21:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:30Tucker Carlson?

  Um, okay. So then to the second point, Dan Patrick said it was unacceptable that you went against Seth Dillon. When she denied his claim that Candace is anti Semitic, who is Seth Dillon? What is this exchange?

• 1:21:43Speaker 02

  Why are they obsessed? Actually, your name was mentioned at the hearing. I don't know if you know that.

• 1:21:47Tucker Carlson?

  I didn't know, but.

• 1:21:48Speaker 02

  Seth Dillon is the Babylon Bee guy. So he was speaking on behalf of anti Semitism. He's a Christian, but and I, I guess I, I don't even know what Christianity means anymore. If Christianity is defending a genocide in Gaza, that's scary.

• 1:22:06Tucker Carlson?

  Yep, it's not my religion.

• 1:22:07Speaker 02

  And so these people, they call themselves Christians. I don't believe they are, but Seth Dillon was on stage.

• 1:22:16Tucker Carlson?

  You can't defend the murder of innocents, period. I don't care who they are. I don't care what country, I don't care if they're Palestinians or Jews.

• 1:22:23Speaker 02

  Me too.

• 1:22:23Tucker Carlson?

  I don't think any faithful Christian would defend shooting up a rave in Southern Israel. That's disgusting as a Christian, October 7th, parts of it were disgusting. Gaza is disgusting. I mean, like, it's a principle that doesn't change over time. You can't kill innocents. And like, if you think you can kill innocents, we're worshiping different gods.

• 1:22:44Speaker 02

  Thank you. That's exactly right. We are. I don't know what Christianity they're a part of. I honestly don't.

• 1:22:53Tucker Carlson?

  You're getting me so worked up. I was just saying, dear husband, I've done so many interviews in my life, but this one is, because I feel like this is foundational.

• 1:23:01Speaker 02

  It is, it is. It's a grave injustice.

• 1:23:05Tucker Carlson?

  So Seth Dillon of the Babylon Bee, just for, of course, no Seth Dillon, but I just want to make sure people know who we're talking about. He runs a comedy site or something. But he has become, he's one of the people who tried to bully Charlie Kirk into kicking me offstage. He's a political enforcer. And you had an exchange with him.

• 1:23:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, I did.

• 1:23:27Tucker Carlson?

  Can you describe it?

• 1:23:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I asked him to his face. I said, you know, Charlie was being called, since we're having a hearing on anti Semitism, Charlie Kirk was being called an anti Semite.

• 1:23:35Tucker Carlson?

  I know.

• 1:23:36Speaker 02

  And I asked him to his face, Seth Dillon, I said, Would you condemn that he was being called an anti Semite? I mean, he, Charlie wasn't an anti Semite.

• 1:23:44Tucker Carlson?

  He was not.

• 1:23:46Speaker 02

  And he got a little uncomfortable.

• 1:23:47Tucker Carlson?

  And neither am I, and neither are you.

• 1:23:48Speaker 02

  Neither am I.

• 1:23:49Tucker Carlson?

  These are slanders. And Charlie was called an anti Semite a lot.

• 1:23:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:53Tucker Carlson?

  And I talked to him about it a lot. I know a lot about this topic. I never talk about it, but I know a lot about it because I was at the center of it. Because the debate was, should he cancel me?

• 1:24:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:24:03Tucker Carlson?

  In my speech this December? And he wouldn't. And one of his last texts we've ever seen was about this exact question. So, and Seth Dillon was one of the thugs.

• 1:24:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:16Tucker Carlson?

  Trying to force Charlie.

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  You know that for a fact?

• 1:24:22Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:24:22Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:24:24Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. And so, we're trying to force Charlie to cancel me and, and other things. It's not about, I just happened to be the guy that they were very, very focused on. But so Seth Dillon is asked by you, would you condemn the attacks on Charlie Kirk as an anti Semite?

• 1:24:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, and he said, yeah, Charlie wasn't an anti Semite. I said, I agree. Thank you for saying that publicly. And then I asked him about the, the Hamptons.

• 1:24:50Speaker 02

  I said, we'll just go there. I mean, we're already, we're already going there, so let's just go there. So what happened at the Hamptons?

• 1:24:56Tucker Carlson?

  And that was a meeting that Charlie had with, among many others, Seth Dillon. I think Bill Ackman was there. I think he paid for it. I could be wrong here. I'm no, I'm no expert, but I remember very well because Charlie came right to my house after that. So we talked about it.

• 1:25:11Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:25:12Tucker Carlson?

  And so what did he say?

• 1:25:17Speaker 02

  He said that Charlie was making statements saying that you can't, I'm paraphrasing, but that, you know, you can't criticize Israel. You, you, you will be destroyed if you do.

• 1:25:29Tucker Carlson?

  By whom?

• 1:25:35Tucker Carlson?

  Have any of these people ever read the prophets? In what we call the Old Testament? The Jewish prophets? Talk about tough on Israel. Holy smokes. I read some of that stuff and I'm like, give Israel a break, Isaiah, Jeremiah, pull back a little bit. You're pretty tough on Israel. Do they ever notice that? I mean, what is going on?

• 1:25:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:57Tucker Carlson?

  Sorry, excuse me.

• 1:25:58Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:25:59Tucker Carlson?

  Um, okay. So, uh...

• 1:26:01Speaker 02

  And then he mentioned, and then he called, that's what it was. So he called Candace an anti Semite. They're obsessed, Tucker. They're obsessed with the label. You're an anti Semite. As soon as they attach that to you, you're done. They shove you in the box.

• 1:26:16Tucker Carlson?

  So when Moses goes up a second time to Mount Sinai and says to God, please kill me, these people are too annoying, I can't deal with it. Is that anti Semitism? Like, what are you even, what are you even talking about?

• 1:26:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. They're obsessed with it. And so they brought up, I think either I brought up you, oh yeah, I'm not sure who brought up you, but I remember saying, you're obsessed with calling Candace and Tucker anti Semites. And it really has to stop. It really has to stop, Seth.

• 1:26:45Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah. What did he say?

• 1:26:49Speaker 02

  He got very frustrated. He got very uncomfortable. He was squirmish. He was very, very frustrated.

• 1:26:55Tucker Carlson?

  He's not a man at peace.

• 1:26:56Speaker 02

  Very uncomfortable, yeah. And then after that was over, we actually went backstage and I had a, probably like a 10 minute, well, everybody else was on stage still. I went to the bathroom and then I talked to him. And we had a pretty good exchange. I said, are you Jewish? And he goes, no, I'm a Christian. I said, oh my gosh, I thought you were, I thought you were Jewish. He goes, no. I said, okay. And I said, well, thank you for that dialogue out there. I think it's very important. You know, I said Charlie was being called an anti Semite and I wanted to know about the Hamptons meeting. I was told that, you know, they were bullying him and...

• 1:27:27Tucker Carlson?

  They certainly were bullying him.

• 1:27:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I said, thank you for clarifying that. But since then, he keeps saying that he wasn't one of the ones that was, you know, bullying Charlie or... Calling him an anti Semite, or I asked him, I said, Seth, who was morally blackmailing Charlie? Who was it? Just say the name, or the names of the people that were doing that. Cause Charlie was very upset on Megyn Kelly. He said, they're morally blackmailing me. They're calling me an anti Semite, attacking my character. Who are these people? I think we have a right to know. Who are these thugs?

• 1:28:03Tucker Carlson?

  I talked to him about it many times and he was very upset about it. And I've really tried not to use the memory of, you know, a dead friend to make a political point. So a lot of other people have not restrained themselves. And they're constantly talking about my best friend, Charlie, and he thought this, he thought that. But I know a lot about this topic, of course, because I was at the center of it. Cause it was my speech that they were mad about. So I-

• 1:28:26Speaker 02

  He was protecting your speech.

• 1:28:27Tucker Carlson?

  He certainly was at great risk to himself and great risk. He lost millions of dollars, as he said, because he refused to cancel me. So of course I know all that and I haven't gone on and on about it because I don't like calling attention to myself. And I think there's something ugly about talking about someone who can't speak up for himself. Once he's passed, I just don't like it because in my culture, that's not acceptable. But it's just a lie. It's they're lying and I know that for a fact. Cause he sat in my living room and told me about it. So like, stop lying. I can't deal with it and he was making me too mad. So now Dan Patrick is saying that because you wouldn't denounce Candace as an anti Semite, you went too far. So that's now in the Nicene Creed?

• 1:29:13Tucker Carlson?

  No, is it? What did the Council of Nicene add this part? Kind of retroactively where you have to denounce a podcaster or you can't be a Christian or serve on a religious condition? Like what is going on?

• 1:29:23Speaker 02

  This is where we're at and you know this well. They want to call you an anti Semite. And then once they put that on you and shove you in that box-

• 1:29:32Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I know.

• 1:29:33Speaker 02

  They want everybody else to come to the town square and they want to watch you get publicly lynched.

• 1:29:41Speaker 02

  And then they want everybody around to denounce you. And if they don't.

• 1:29:46Tucker Carlson?

  Repertory to you being arrested, because if it's against the law to have certain views and they claim that you have those views, you're in violation of the law.

• 1:29:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:29:55Tucker Carlson?

  So, I mean, let's be real, this is like, and in Europe, and in Canada, and Australia, and New Zealand, lots of people go to jail for having views that Seth Dillon doesn't like. Lots of people go to jail, a lot. So it's not like this hasn't happened. It's the law in Europe.

• 1:30:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:14Tucker Carlson?

  It's the law in Australia, it's the law in New Zealand, it's the law in Canada.

• 1:30:17Speaker 02

  We're in America.

• 1:30:18Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, well.

• 1:30:18Speaker 02

  This is insane.

• 1:30:19Tucker Carlson?

  I'm, I'm just saying, lots of people go to prison over this.

• 1:30:23Speaker 02

  But they're obsessed with getting everyone else, you've experienced this, denounce Tucker. Distance yourself, call him an anti Semite, agree with us, or else.

• 1:30:31Tucker Carlson?

  I'm so grateful to be old because I just don't care, but I do care about the country a lot, and I see where this is going. So they want you to denounce Candace Owens.

• 1:30:40Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Yeah, just like they want Megyn Kelly to denounce Candace Owens.

• 1:30:45Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I know.

• 1:30:46Speaker 02

  But they don't own me.

• 1:30:47Tucker Carlson?

  Megyn Kelly, who's like the most moderate person who's ever lived.

• 1:30:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:52Tucker Carlson?

  Megyn Kelly, who really likes Israel and all, her friends are Jewish and like, Megyn Kelly is, there's like no world in which Megyn Kelly is an anti Semite.

• 1:31:01Speaker 02

  I don't even entertain the idea. I don't even, I don't even say, I'm not an anti Semite. Like, I'm so sick of that. I've been through this before with the whole gay marriage thing. You're a bigot, you're a homophobe. Call me whatever you want, I'm just a Christian, okay? And if being a Christian now is an anti Semite, that's what I have a problem with.

• 1:31:20Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's the whole point.

• 1:31:21Speaker 02

  That's the whole point.

• 1:31:22Tucker Carlson?

  That's the whole point. Being a sincere Christian, a New Testament believing Christian makes you an anti Semite, therefore we can't have Christianity, because that's the real enemy, of course. So, um, okay, you come out and you say, after Dan Patrick fires you, fires you, "Hey, Dan Patrick, you can't fire me because you didn't appoint me. This is a presidential appointment and the president hasn't weighed in." So where are we now on that question?

• 1:31:52Speaker 02

  Good question. So I hadn't been on X in years. So I got on X after this all happened.

• 1:32:01Tucker Carlson?

  Did that improve your life a lot, Carrie?

• 1:32:03Speaker 02

  That's been, uh, interesting. Um, so I've been posting, obviously, how sad I have to defend myself against this insanity. Um, so the other day, it was recently, it was about a week ago, I went on and I was looking for Mary, the, the designated federal officer from the, I wanted to look at an old email that I had sent her. So I typed in my mail, in my mail, "Mary." Well, all of a sudden, a Mary Sproul popped up, an email from Mary Sproul. And I thought, well, that name sounds familiar. That's the woman back in August who tried to get me to resign. I go, what is she emailing me about? She sent it on February

• 1:32:43Speaker 02

  12th. The hearing was on the 9th. So just a few days after, I think I sent the Dan Patrick, "You don't have the authority to remove me" on the 11th. So she sent it the next day, but I hadn't gotten it. It must've gone to like spam or some junk mail. So I never got it. I would've never seen it had I not looked for Mary, the designated federal officer, Mary, Mary Margaret. So it comes up and it says, "On behalf of the President of the United States, I'm emailing you to let you know that you have been removed from the Religious Liberty Commission effective immediately. Thank you for your service. Mary Sproul."

• 1:33:24Tucker Carlson?

  It's really dark.

• 1:33:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:26Tucker Carlson?

  Have you talked to Trump?

• 1:33:27Speaker 02

  No. I reached out to-

• 1:33:29Tucker Carlson?

  And was there any explanation?

• 1:33:30Speaker 02

  No explanation. So I wrote her back and I said, "Oh, Mary Sproul, you're the same Mary that tried to get me to step down, resign in, in August." I left out a very important part, Tucker. This is good. At the first hearing, the president was there. Trump was there at the first hearing. Remember, Mary called me to get me to resign and then I didn't? Well, I saw the president.

• 1:33:56Speaker 02

  And we got to have, spend some time with him before the hearings. So we were shaking his hand and he looks at me in the eyes and he goes, hey, Carrie. He goes, I want you to know something. He goes, I took care of it. And he goes, you know what I'm talking about, right?

• 1:34:09Tucker Carlson?

  He said that?

• 1:34:10Speaker 02

  He said that. And I said, yes, Mr. President, I know what you're talking about. Thank you so much. And he goes, I, you know, I know the real you. I know the real you. And basically he told him to leave me alone. I thought that was incredible. I mean, he was doing the right thing. How can you kick a religious person off a religious commission? It's ridiculous.

• 1:34:31Tucker Carlson?

  This was in August?

• 1:34:32Speaker 02

  This was in August. So he had my back. So I thought, oh, I'm, I'm good. I'm good. This, he doesn't support them trying to kick me off. So when I got this email a week ago from Mary Sproul, I said, you tried to remove me in August and the president vetoed your attempt to remove me. Um, so I don't really take you serious. But maybe, maybe she is a legitimate person, spokesperson for the president. But I would think that the president would actually send a letter removing me if this was actually his decision. And I was told from someone very high up in the White House that they spoke to him on the phone and he was wrestling with this. He's like, what do I do? Dan's saying this and I really like Carrie.

• 1:35:16Speaker 02

  And so I don't know. I honestly don't know.

• 1:35:20Tucker Carlson?

  Have you heard from the commission since then?

• 1:35:22Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:35:23Tucker Carlson?

  Have there been more hearings?

• 1:35:24Speaker 02

  The hearing is coming up, uh, next Monday.

• 1:35:29Tucker Carlson?

  And you've not been invited?

• 1:35:30Speaker 02

  No. And it makes me sad because that's the hearing on religious freedom and healthcare. All the mothers that don't want to vaccinate their kids.

• 1:35:39Tucker Carlson?

  Has any, to this day, so we're in the second week of March as we're taping this, has any member of the commission spoken up in your defense?

• 1:35:50Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:35:50Tucker Carlson?

  Not one?

• 1:35:51Speaker 02

  Not one.

• 1:35:52Tucker Carlson?

  What about Baron, Bishop Baron and Colonel Zollin?

• 1:35:56Speaker 02

  I tried to get them to make a public statement about it, but I don't think they want to be involved.

• 1:36:02Tucker Carlson?

  Why?

• 1:36:03Speaker 02

  I don't think they want to be called an anti Semite because they're speaking out for someone who was called an anti Semite. That's where we're at.

• 1:36:10Tucker Carlson?

  But the principle at stake here, and I, and I like, I respect Baron for sure.

• 1:36:16Speaker 02

  I do too.

• 1:36:16Tucker Carlson?

  Um, very smart, like actually very smart. But the principle at stake is a doctrinal principle, it would seem to me. And so your core position is that being a Zionist, signing on to the Zionist project is not a prerequisite for being a Christian. It's not part of the Nicene Creed, actually. And you were fired for saying this, that's your real crime. And I would think that any theologian or Christian leader, really any Christian would want to just pipe up and say, you know, maybe I love Bibi, maybe I love what he's done in Gaza.

• 1:36:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:36:55Tucker Carlson?

  But like as a point of fact, you don't need to sign on to a political program in order to be a Christian.

• 1:37:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, and to serve on a religious liberty commission.

• 1:37:04Tucker Carlson?

  Of course.

• 1:37:04Speaker 02

  That's like basic.

• 1:37:06Tucker Carlson?

  But no one will say that.

• 1:37:07Speaker 02

  No, no, and Bishop Cordellione, I love him and I respect all of them, Cardinal Dolan, Bishop Barron.

• 1:37:17Speaker 02

  But no, they don't want to make a public statement about this. I believe.

• 1:37:22Tucker Carlson?

  That's really.

• 1:37:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:24Tucker Carlson?

  Revealing and sad to see that.

• 1:37:26Speaker 02

  It is sad, it is sad, but you know, I can handle it, I guess, I'm, you know, 38 year old mom.

• 1:37:33Tucker Carlson?

  But you can't allow non Christians to determine what Christian doctrine is.

• 1:37:39Speaker 02

  Right, exactly.

• 1:37:39Tucker Carlson?

  Which is what happened during Vatican II, in point of fact. I say that as a non Catholic, I shouldn't even get involved, but that's literally what happened. Non Christians like, oh, you're not allowed to believe that, so they changed Christian doctrine. And I just think that is.

• 1:37:55Speaker 02

  Well, it's dangerous, it's very dangerous.

• 1:37:56Tucker Carlson?

  Yeah, you're supposed to be, you're supposed to be trying to emulate Jesus, who paid with his life for disagreeing with temporal authorities. And you're supposed to be representing Jesus's word on earth. So like.

• 1:38:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:13Tucker Carlson?

  The stakes are really high.

• 1:38:14Speaker 02

  We're called to be peacemakers too, so why not just come out and say, she has every right to stand up for her religious beliefs? And she shouldn't be removed, like just say that.

• 1:38:23Tucker Carlson?

  Right.

• 1:38:24Speaker 02

  She shouldn't be removed for her religious convictions. Shouldn't every commissioner believe that? If they're actually doing their job? Why am I the only one doing my actual job, which is to protect religious freedom for all religions? It's very disappointing. And I think a lot of these commissioners are on this to have access. Because let's be honest, it's, you feel cool being invited places, the fancy invites. Oh, I'm going to the White House. But I've said over and over again, I would rather die. I would rather die than deny my faith. And I'm standing up for my faith by doing this.

• 1:39:03Speaker 02

  Because I will not submit to a country that is committing genocide in Gaza. Full stop. That's the, that is the fact. And they want me to deny my eyes and deny what I've seen and what I know in my heart as a Christian. I cannot, I cannot do that. I would rather die.

• 1:39:26Tucker Carlson?

  Well, that's one of the most disappointing stories I've ever heard. And it hits me especially hard again because I know most of the people involved. And like a bunch of them. So that's really, really sad. Tell us about the reaction to this hearing outside of the Religious Liberty Commission. Like, how have other people responded to this? Is anyone on your side?

• 1:39:48Speaker 02

  It's been amazing.

• 1:39:49Tucker Carlson?

  Okay.

• 1:39:50Speaker 02

  It's been amazing. So Catholics for Catholics, do you know John Yip, the president of Catholics? He actually helped Trump get the Catholic vote in 2024. They've done amazing for the Catholic, you know, for politics in general. And so they came out right away and it was beautiful, Tucker. And they said, we are inviting Carrie to Washington DC and we're giving her the Catholic Champion Award.

• 1:40:25Tucker Carlson?

  One of this, one of the attacks on you, and I think I saw it from people on the commission is you're not really a Catholic because you just converted to Catholicism. So like, how dare you speak for Catholics?

• 1:40:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40:36Tucker Carlson?

  Seems pretty low thing to say about someone.

• 1:40:40Speaker 02

  Very, very, very low.

• 1:40:42Tucker Carlson?

  And I'm not misremembering that.

• 1:40:45Speaker 02

  No, that's exactly right. They're questioning how long I've been a Catholic.

• 1:40:52Speaker 02

  But what's crazy Tucker is that I left, I used to be a Zionist. I used to be a dispensational Christian for my entire life.

• 1:40:59Tucker Carlson?

  Really?

• 1:41:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I went to the evangelical Paula White type of churches my entire life.

• 1:41:05Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:41:05Speaker 02

  And I started studying about dispensationalism and I was thinking, wait a second. How can they just interpret scripture however they want, twist it, manipulate it? And say, "Those who bless Israel will be blessed." BB, "Those who bless BB will be blessed." And if you don't bless BB, you're going to be cursed, according to Lindsey Graham. I started thinking, this is insane. So I started studying the early Church Fathers and I started studying, you know, what they taught. And it led me to the Catholic Church. Literally, like, learning about dispensationalism led me to the early Church Fathers and then I became Catholic. And so, I'm not an idiot. I know, I know what the Catholic Church teaches. We are the new Israel.

• 1:41:49Speaker 02

  That's what the Church teaches. We are the fulfillment of the old Israel. I mean, look at, Jesus fulfilled it all on the cross. There's, he got, when he said, "It is finished," the old was completely done. There is the new covenant now. Those who are in Christ, that is the new people of God. It is very clear. This isn't even debatable. I don't even know why we're having this debate. Which is why Bishop Barron and Cardinal Dolan should be like, "Yeah, it's what we believe. We are the new Israel." The land means nothing anymore. Yes, it's the Holy Land, but that's not some biblical, what are they gonna? What's scary Tucker is these people like Paula White and Ted Cruz and Dan Patrick, they

• 1:42:32Speaker 02

  believe that there will be, the Dome of the Rock will be torn down and they will rebuild that third temple. They're saying it now, look at Pete Hexeth. There will be a rebuilding of this temple.

• 1:42:42Tucker Carlson?

  I know.

• 1:42:42Speaker 02

  It is heretical and it is anti-Christian.

• 1:42:45Tucker Carlson?

  I, I know that.

• 1:42:47Speaker 02

  Because they're gonna bring in the animal sacrifices again. And the most anti-Semitic thing that they believe is that two-thirds of the Jews are gonna be slaughtered.

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  That's what these people believe. They're just manipulating them and using them. They don't really care.

• 1:43:01Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, everything you've said is true. I mean, Jesus describes himself as the temple.

• 1:43:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:43:07Tucker Carlson?

  So.

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  He is the temple.

• 1:43:09Tucker Carlson?

  Well, he says that.

• 1:43:10Speaker 02

  He is the lamb that was slain, the final sacrifice.

• 1:43:14Tucker Carlson?

  So, yeah, I, I'm a little confused. Okay, so I understand that there are people who believe in the theology that you just described right there. I think it's wrong. I don't think it makes internal sense. I don't think it's Christian. But I think there are a lot of really decent people who believe it. I know some really decent people for sure that I agree with on a lot of other issues. But they sincerely believe it. The Catholic Church does not. The Catholic Church's doctrine, it's not something you have to guess about. You can look it up online. It's been pretty consistent for a couple thousand years. So like, why in the world would Catholic leaders who don't believe this, why wouldn't they just say, we don't believe this as Catholics? Because again, you can check it online if you want.

• 1:43:57Tucker Carlson?

  I'm totally confused. How are they controlled?

• 1:44:02Speaker 02

  I think that they don't want to face what you've faced and what Candace has faced and what Megan has faced and what I've faced and Marjorie Taylor. It's shut up, you hateful bigot, and we're going to destroy you. They don't want that.

• 1:44:18Tucker Carlson?

  Really? Because we're promised that by Jesus in the New Testament?

• 1:44:21Speaker 02

  Take up your cross.

• 1:44:22Tucker Carlson?

  100%. I was interviewing this amazingly Anglican bishop in Jordan last month, and I'm Anglican. So it's just amazing to find out like a truly Christian Anglican. Oh, it's wonderful. It was the best thing I did all year. But so I interviewed this man, and we're talking off camera. And I said, I, you know, how often do you spit on or spit at in Jerusalem? Like, every day. Orthodox Jews spit on me or spit at me or urinate at my church or whatever. And I'm like, I don't, how can you deal with that? If someone spit on me, I don't know what I would do.

• 1:44:59Tucker Carlson?

  Because I'm not a great Christian and I'm having all these fantasies about what I would do if someone spit on me like I would not respond well. And he said, oh no, I feel blessed. Jesus was spit on in Jerusalem. And I thought, wow, that's the Christianity I believe in right there. That is right. That is accept the persecution that you're promised. You are promised persecution. It's not ambiguous. You're not promised lots of money. Sorry, Paula White. You're promised persecution by the world that hates you because the world hates Jesus. I was so inspired by that. It made me teary hearing someone say, because he meant it. This was off camera, having a cup of coffee. And so like, considering that is the faith, I don't really get Christian leaders who are like, oh, I don't want to deal with the

• 1:45:43Tucker Carlson?

  blowback. What? Jesus himself is promising you like, what happened to him, which is being tortured to death. And I don't want to be criticized on Twitter.

• 1:45:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, look at the disciples.

• 1:45:56Tucker Carlson?

  I think they, to the extent we know, I think they were all murdered.

• 1:46:00Speaker 02

  All but one.

• 1:46:01Tucker Carlson?

  Maybe, okay. So anyway, it doesn't make any sense to me.

• 1:46:06Speaker 02

  And murdered very viciously.

• 1:46:07Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:46:08Speaker 02

  Horrifically. And so we now have leaders that don't want to even suffer any discomfort at all, Tucker. They don't want to be name called because that would hurt them too much. It would hurt their feelings. So they're gonna, they're gonna hide behind a 38 year old mom and whisper, keep going. I'm praying for you.

• 1:46:28Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, do you have people said that?

• 1:46:29Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I mean, I, my priest, I've had several priests that I've spoken to. I've asked, you know, can you make a public statement? Oh, I don't make public statements. I get people to heaven.

• 1:46:43Tucker Carlson?

  Okay, now.

• 1:46:46Speaker 02

  Okay, that's, okay, so hide behind the mom and I'll, I'll take the bullets. I'll take the bullets while the shepherds are running for the hillside. Must be nice.

• 1:46:58Tucker Carlson?

  It's not nice.

• 1:46:59Speaker 02

  But no judgment on them. No judgment.

• 1:47:01Tucker Carlson?

  Well, cowardice is its own punishment. You know, I think your wife's never going to respect you ever again. You can't respect yourself. Think your wife's attracted to you and you're a coward? I don't think so.

• 1:47:13Speaker 02

  I know, but I will say to answer your question, I've had incredible men, Catholic men, outspoken men stand up for me and several priests. I will say there has been priests. I have one that's coming to the event next week in DC, the gala. And I'm sorry, I got emotional, but I'm like, if it wasn't, I mean, could you imagine going through all this? And then they come out and they say, not only are we going to honor you, but invite you to this, but we're going to give you this award. You're going to get the Catholic Champion Award. You're a champion, Carrie. I'm thinking, oh my gosh, thank you. Thank you for this. And since then, they've had tremendous blowback. People pulling out, oh, I can't believe you'd have that anti semi. I mean, this is where we're at because I asked the question.

• 1:47:58Tucker Carlson?

  Really? They had people pull out?

• 1:48:00Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. They've had people, you know, attack them. Oh, I can't believe you would have Carrie. And well, Candace will be there too. You know, you can't have Carrie and Candace. That's like two anti Semites in one room. We can only have one. I guess. I don't know. So yeah, it's very unfortunate. It's the public lynching and then making everyone around watching say, yeah, they're an anti Semite. And I'm going to distance myself from them because I don't want to be labeled an anti Semite.

• 1:48:29Tucker Carlson?

  This will all be over soon. We've reached peak crazy. I felt like that hearing, the response to you was that, you know, that's as bad as it's it's going to get without pushback. I think you really woke people up.

• 1:48:43Speaker 02

  Well, they're desperate though, which is scary.

• 1:48:45Tucker Carlson?

  Oh, I know.

• 1:48:46Speaker 02

  Because

• 1:48:48Speaker 02

  they will try to do everything to destroy you.

• 1:48:52Tucker Carlson?

  I've heard that.

• 1:48:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know it.

• 1:48:54Tucker Carlson?

  Carrie, thank you for doing this. I appreciate it. That was, that's, that was an amazing story.

• 1:48:59Speaker 02

  Thank you, Tucker. Appreciate you having me.