THE UNKNOWN: Reincarnation

One of life’s biggest mysteries is what happens to us when we die—but the answer might lie in the early memories of small children. Some kids seem to remember specific and very detailed moments of a past life—leading many top researchers to wonder if this is evidence of reincarnation.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  One of the single most devastating things we can go through in life is losing someone we love. Because I think most of us can agree, death just feels so permanent, right? You wonder, will I ever get to see that person again? Hold them, touch them, and tell them I love them? It's questions like that that make death maybe the greatest mystery of our entire existence. I mean, people literally go to war over what they believe happens to us after we're gone. But like any great mystery, there are always clues, little signs that might provide answers if we examine them close enough. For example, if you've ever noticed a little bird sitting outside your window, or were

• 0:46Speaker 00

  visited by a stray dog, or locked eyes with a child after someone's passing and thought, "There's something about this encounter that feels intrinsically different, like peaceful, happy, familiar." Well, you're not alone. And that feeling might not be a fluke. It might be reincarnation, the idea that our souls come back to earth in a new host to live a brand-new life after we pass. But for some, the evidence extends far beyond just a feeling, which is why today, Rasha and Yvette are going to share some stories from people who have had pretty infallible evidence that reincarnation is more than just a religious belief, that it might be

• 1:31Speaker 00

  the answer to one of mankind's longest-standing mysteries. I'm Ashley Flowers, and this is So Supernatural.

• 2:10Rasha Pecoraro?

  Happy Aloha Friday. I'm Rasha Pecoraro.

• 2:14Yvette Gentile?

  And I'm Yvette Gentile. And today, we are talking about one of life's biggest mysteries. What happens after we die? I mean, every belief system thinks they may have the answer. But today, we're talking about one possibility we find extremely fascinating: reincarnation.

• 2:37Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yvette and I both believe in reincarnation and past lives. But Yvette, you have one story in particular about reincarnation that you have to share with our listeners before we get started on today's story.

• 2:51Yvette Gentile?

  Okay, so this happened back in the late 80s. And this is when mom and I first went to the Franklin House. And that is where George Hodel, our great-grandfather, mom's grandfather, used to live. So this was the second owner, I forget the woman's name. But anyhow, she invited us in. We did a walk-through of the house. I went to the very end of the house. And this is a house that is built by Lloyd Wright. So, you know, the rooms are all around the outside. Well, at the very end of the house, you're looking out upon the pool. And it's kind of like a little stage. And, you know, we went up there, she was giving us a tour.

• 3:32Yvette Gentile?

  And I had this incredible experience that I felt like I was performing. I was this woman who was in this kind of flappers outfit. And I was singing and dancing, and I was the entertainment. And as I was looking out onto the crowd, there was, you know, all these people, right? That were enjoying whatever I was doing.

• 3:56Rasha Pecoraro?

  But again, I had no idea what I was actually seeing, right? So fast forward to Mom's celebration of life and we're all there and we're with Patty Jenkins. And Patty starts telling us this story about this woman who was friends with George and her name was Maddie Comfort. And she was, she was a singer, she was an entertainer and she used to go to that house all the time. So I don't know if I was having a past life experience. I have no idea, but I had never been through or seen anything like that before. Now clearly, Yvette, you and I absolutely believe there must be something to this past

• 4:41Rasha Pecoraro?

  lives, reincarnation, all these supernatural mystical things. But of course, we don't absolutely know what happens after we die. But getting into today's story, one woman named Cindy Hammonds thinks she knows for sure what happens after we die. Just to preface it, she's a lifelong Christian and she accepts all of the things that her church teaches. You know, like if you believe in Jesus, you get to spend eternity in heaven, that sort of thing. But on one tense day back in 2008, Cindy's trying to think about absolutely anything but death or dying because her four-year-old son Ryan is about to get surgery for a chronic condition.

• 5:26Rasha Pecoraro?

  So of course she's worried about her son. So basically Ryan has too much tissue growing at the back of his throat and it makes it impossible for him to speak at all. And it could also interfere with his breathing, but the operation will have that tissue removed. So when the doctors bring Cindy into her son's recovery room, she's super relieved to hear everything went as great as it could have. Better than great, actually. For the first time in his entire life, Ryan can actually talk.

• 5:58Rasha Pecoraro?

  So right off the bat, he's able to speak in complete sentences, which, you know, that makes sense. He's four years old. He understands English perfectly. It's just that now he's physically able to vocalize his thoughts. And over the next few days and weeks, he starts telling his parents everything that is on his mind. You know, his likes and dislikes, his opinions, his thoughts. And almost immediately, like within the first few days after his surgery, Ryan also tells Cindy something incredibly specific. He says he wants to go and visit Los Angeles

• 6:39Rasha Pecoraro?

  because he loves everything that has to do with the entertainment industry and movie making. And Ryan's statements to his parents start getting even stranger from there. Whenever they're watching TV and the Hollywood sign appears on screen, he gets really excited. Then he starts talking about how he actually lives there, right now and not in the past, and that he wants to visit his home there. Except, um, Ryan has spent his entire life in Oklahoma. And this isn't a one-time thing. He keeps talking about this alleged other home in California every single chance he gets.

• 7:22Rasha Pecoraro?

  I can't even begin to speculate on what his parents think about this. Can you imagine your five-year-old child is telling you, you know, all these things that he has never lived before in his life? Like, that is crazy. But, I mean, Rasha, if Leilani was to do that, what would you think? Would you believe her? Hundred percent, I'd believe her. I would just keep inquiring and asking question after question after question.

• 7:48Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah, I have to say, I mean, I don't have children, but I would do the same exact things because kids are so in tune, like way more in tune than we actually give them credit for. So I would absolutely, yeah, do the same thing. Anyhow, so after Ryan's fifth birthday, things take a dark turn. He starts having these bizarre nightmares, and they always seem to be about the stress of being a Hollywood bigwig. Ryan literally wakes up yelling that his heart exploded in Hollywood. It's an unusual nightmare for a five-year-old for sure. And Cindy, his mom, doesn't know what to make of it. Until one night when she's putting her son to bed,

• 8:32Yvette Gentile?

  and Ryan says, "Mama, I think I used to be someone else." But he doesn't stop there. Ryan goes on to describe this other person who he may have been in detail. He says he used to love Chinese food and a particular brand of orange soda called TruAid. Okay, which is a brand that went out of business back in the 50s. So it's really unlikely Ryan would know anything about that. He also says he used to dream of being a movie star back in the 1930s. He says that he learned to tap dance, and he got a few small roles that launched his career. And before he knew it, he was meeting famous stars

• 9:17Yvette Gentile?

  and going to fabulous Hollywood parties. This is coming from a five-year-old, you guys. But eventually, he gave up on his dream of stardom to become a talent agent. He worked for a company that encouraged actors and actresses to change their names so they'd be flashier and more memorable. And guess what? He was really successful, and eventually, he says he bought a huge house. Ryan can't remember the full address, but he thinks his street name had the word "rock" in it. But Ryan says he didn't spend a ton of time in this house because he loved to travel. He visited Paris on multiple occasions and saw the Eiffel Tower.

• 10:00Yvette Gentile?

  He also spent a lot of time in other parts of Europe. Unfortunately, he says his money and flashy lifestyle couldn't buy everlasting love. Ryan says that he had multiple divorces and was married a total of five times. He also adopted three sons and had one biological daughter. I mean, the list goes on and on. But the point is, Ryan seems to know a ton of details about his alleged past life as a Hollywood actor and agent. But there's just one thing that he can't seem to remember: his old name.

• 10:42Rasha Pecoraro?

  Now, at first, Cindy figures that Ryan just has a very active imagination. I mean, we all know how five-year-olds can be. Except it's pretty unusual for a five-year-old to tell a story that's not just so frickin' detailed, but that also has such specific details. I mean, what kid that age thinks about Hollywood agents, multiple wives, and an out-of-circulation orange soda? It's bizarre. But Ryan is very intense and very sincere when he tells this story. And shortly after this conversation, his demeanor also changes. He starts acting like a grown man from the 1950s.

• 11:25Rasha Pecoraro?

  He tells his mom he wants to dress in a suit and tie every day. And remember how we mentioned that he used to like Chinese food? Well, his parents decide to take him to a local Chinese restaurant, and he's never used chopsticks before in his life. No one's taught him how to hold them, but the moment he sits down at that table, he picks up a pair and eats with them like he's been doing this for years. Eventually, Cindy starts thinking, "This can't all be make-believe." She's not sure if Ryan really is remembering his past life, but at least he seems to believe he is. And with a whole heck of a lot of detail.

• 12:08Yvette Gentile?

  And that's when she starts thinking. Cindy doesn't necessarily believe in reincarnation, but she has seen movies and TV shows about past lives. Presumably, she can recognize the similarity between Ryan's story and the stories that she's watched on TV. So she goes online to read even more about it. And she finds a lot of research that says it's good to encourage these kind of memories. You know, trying to repress or ignore them can be incredibly stressful. So Cindy really starts embracing Ryan's love of old Hollywood and tries to see what else he can recall. Well, one day Cindy goes to the library and checks out a book on the golden era of filmmaking.

• 12:53Yvette Gentile?

  And when she sits down with Ryan to read it, he starts pointing out certain photos. He sees one picture of a female movie star and he says that he's met her before. And also, once he says he tried to approach her at an event and her bodyguard punched him in the face before he could get too close. Ryan thinks the actress's name is Mary or something like that. But Cindy absolutely recognizes her. Guess who it is? Marilyn Monroe. Then he gets to a page full of behind-the-scenes photos from a 1932 movie called Night After Night.

• 13:37Yvette Gentile?

  Ryan points at one picture and says, "Mommy, that's George. We did a picture together." Then he puts his finger on an image of another man and says, "And that's me."

• 13:57Yvette Gentile?

  Sometime around 2010, five-year-old Ryan Hammonds claims he remembers his past life as a Hollywood agent. When he looks at a library book, he points out a photo that seems to be of his previous self. Now, the book doesn't identify the man. It only says he was an extra in the film Night After Night. He didn't even speak on camera, which means he's not listed in any credits or any online cast list. So Ryan's mother Cindy has no idea who this guy is. But now that Ryan has seen this picture, he starts acting very insistent.

• 14:37Rasha Pecoraro?

  He says he needs to get to Los Angeles and find his old friends and family members. And when Cindy tells him that is impossible, he screams and begs and he starts becoming extremely anxious. And they start fighting about it all the time. And Cindy can tell this isn't your typical, normal toddler meltdown. Something seems to be really wrong with Ryan. And it's getting to the point where she thinks that he needs some kind of professional help. So she spends all of her free time Googling psychologist and specialist. And in February of 2010,

• 15:18Rasha Pecoraro?

  she finds one who specializes in reincarnation. His name is Jim Tucker. He's a researcher with the University of Virginia, and his specialty is children who remember past lives. In other words, he sounds like the person to get to the bottom of whatever is going on with Ryan. So right away Cindy writes Jim a letter. In it, she describes what's going on and lists all of those claims that Ryan has been making about his past life, about living on a street with rock in the name, being married five times, all of it. And when Jim reads it, he's incredibly intrigued,

• 15:58Rasha Pecoraro?

  especially once he realizes that Ryan might have formerly lived as a Hollywood professional. Because Jim is in the middle of filming a movie of his own, a documentary on reincarnation. And the crew has all kinds of connections in Hollywood. So he asks them if they can talk to any film historians or archivists who might be able to identify that man from the photograph that Ryan says that he is. And it gets them somewhere. A Hollywood archivist says they've identified both of the men in the photo. The one who Ryan called George is an actor who appeared in dozens of movies between the 30s and the 50s.

• 16:40Rasha Pecoraro?

  He was a leading man whose most memorable roles were playing gangsters. His name is George Raft.

• 16:47Yvette Gentile?

  As for the other man, the extra who Ryan thinks is his past self, well, the archivist forwards his information to Jim. Then Jim compares those files with the claims Ryan has been making. And a lot of Ryan's predictions are correct. For example, Ryan says he used to have a mother with dark-colored curly hair. And he did. He says he bought his daughter a dog as a birthday present when she turned six. And again, that's correct. He even says he used to play piano and owned one. Right again. I mean, the list goes on and on. In total, 55 of Ryan's claims are spot on.

• 17:33Yvette Gentile?

  Okay, but here's the thing. Jim still doesn't know if Ryan has been telling the truth or if he's just, I don't know, a very lucky guesser. So he sets up a test and he arranges to meet Ryan in person. And by the time they work out the travel details, Ryan is now six years old. And when they see each other, Jim shows him a bunch of old photos of Hollywood stars and crew members, as well as pictures of four different women. He asks if any of them look familiar, and Ryan points at one of them and he says he knows her. Which is correct. The man in question was married to that woman and never met the other three.

• 18:18Yvette Gentile?

  Then Jim shows Ryan four photos of different men. He asks if he recognizes any of them. Once again, Ryan picks the correct photo. It's a senator who was friends with the Hollywood agent. And finally, Jim shows Ryan four more men and asks something like, "Which of these was you in the past life?" Once more, Ryan picks the right man. So now Jim is very confident. Ryan used to be a talent agent by the name of Marty Martin.

• 18:56Rasha Pecoraro?

  Well, Marty was his stage name. He was a performer turned Hollywood agent. He got his start tap dancing on Broadway before moving to the West Coast to chase his silver screen dreams. Exactly like Ryan said. And here's another guess that Ryan got right. As an agent, Marty encouraged his clients to change their names. He wanted them to have short, memorable stage names that were easy to pronounce and remember. Which, of course, must have been a good strategy at the time, because after he made it big as a talent agent, Marty bought a big fancy house on a street called Roxbury Drive. Now, remember, Ryan said he thought the word "rock" was in the street name.

• 19:41Rasha Pecoraro?

  Well, that's pretty darned close. Plus, Marty loved to travel, especially to Paris. His sister lived there, so he went back and forth from LA to France multiple times. He also toured through Europe on a few different occasions. And he was unlucky in love. He was married four times, not five like Ryan said. But again, his prediction was pretty darned close. And get this. Marty adopted three of his stepsons and had one biological daughter of his own. He even loved True Aid Orange Soda, just like Ryan said. Marty also had a long, successful career.

• 20:23Rasha Pecoraro?

  He did really well for himself, but he wasn't famous per se. In fact, by 2010, he was all but forgotten. There weren't any books about him or documentaries about his life. And if you Googled his name before that year, you wouldn't have gotten any hits. Which means, it would have been so impossible for Ryan to study Marty's life and fake these memories.

• 20:49Yvette Gentile?

  Literally, it took a professional Hollywood historian to figure out who this guy was. So there is no way, there's no way Ryan and his mother would have known all of these details about him. In fact, even the archivist has a hard time confirming certain claims. Like how Ryan says that Marty used to own a green car that nobody else in the family was allowed to drive. The researchers can't find any news articles about his car, so they think maybe, I don't know, maybe they should get Marty's family involved. And they managed to get hold of his now 57-year-old daughter. She was only eight when her father died, so she doesn't remember a ton about him.

• 21:33Yvette Gentile?

  But she does confirm that her dad drove a green car, and he was the only person who was allowed to get behind the wheel. And once she hears about the wild claims that Ryan is making, she actually agrees to meet him. I don't know if she actually believes her father's spirit is reincarnated in this little boy, but, I mean, come on, she couldn't pass up the opportunity to talk to him either way. I would absolutely want to meet someone if they felt like they were our mother reincarnated. I mean, of course, we have to go through things.

• 22:11Rasha Pecoraro?

  You'd have to vet them thoroughly.

• 22:12Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah.

• 22:13Rasha Pecoraro?

  Because there's a lot you can find online about Fauna Hodel. But we would have to hear validating claims, things that only you or I would know, Yvette, right?

• 22:24Yvette Gentile?

  Yeah, something that is not out in the world.

• 22:27Rasha Pecoraro?

  So if you or your child is reincarnated as Fauna Hodel, reach out to Yvette and Rasha. We're very easy to find on all social media channels and at sosupernaturalpodcast.com.

• 22:41Rasha Pecoraro?

  Anyway, let's get back to the story. When Ryan flies to Los Angeles and sees Marty's daughter face to face for the first time, he almost seems saddened by the fact that he saw her saying that she's changed so much and she's not the same little girl that he remembers. Now, remember, Ryan's six years old and he's saying this. Afterward, he tells his family that he'd prefer not to see the daughter again. It's probably for the best that they each go on and live their separate lives. But what's interesting is, it almost seems like Ryan has a sense of closure after this meeting. Like he's figured out who he used to be in his past life. He's finally solved the mystery.

• 23:24Rasha Pecoraro?

  And now, it's time for him to move on with his new existence. He even tells his parents that he has a sense of peace now. And he wants to focus on living as Ryan and not as Marty. So when Ryan gets home, he throws out all of his books and posters about old Hollywood movies. He stops dressing in little suits and ties, and instead, he wears more kid-appropriate outfits. He also finds new hobbies and stops talking about movies all of the time. By the time he's a teenager, Ryan admits he doesn't even remember his life as Marty anymore. It's like all of those memories faded not long after he got back from LA.

• 24:08Rasha Pecoraro?

  I just have to say, I'm glad he was able to move on and have a fairly normal life. Because there are a lot of cases like his. And Jim Tucker, the researcher who helped Marty, says that it can be stressful to remember a past life. And according to him, children can feel deeply divided between their current identities and their past ones. They love both of their families, and they don't know who they should stay with or feel loyal to.

• 24:37Yvette Gentile?

  I mean, they might fear that if they choose one set of parents and siblings, they're, you know, betraying both of them. I can see how that would be confusing for any child. Yeah, that's a, that's a tough one. I mean, and some of them also remember the way that they died, which would be extremely traumatic even for an adult. For example, one of Jim's patients was a little boy who, he went to his mother one day and he said he remembered dying on the battlefield in the Vietnam War. And he also recalled his name and age. Later, Jim researched soldiers who had died in Vietnam. And sure enough, he found an entry that exactly matched

• 25:20Yvette Gentile?

  the unusual name and age the boy had given him. On top of that, a lot of Jim's patients have very intense phobias of whatever supposedly killed them in their past lives. Like how Jim once treated a little girl who was terrified of water. She refused to go swimming or get anywhere near a lake or pool. And each time her mother tried to make her take a bath, she screamed and kicked bloody murder until she got out. Eventually, the girl explained that she had memories of a past life where a girl from another village drowned. But it seems no one has really studied this in a lab setting, at least from what I can tell.

• 26:04Yvette Gentile?

  But from a scientific perspective, it's almost a missed opportunity. If Ryan's memories continued about Marty, it's possible there's ways to study them and maybe just get more information about death and the afterlife because of it. The good news is we don't have to rely on Ryan alone. There are a ton of stories of other children just like him who claim they remember events from a past life.

• 26:34Rasha Pecoraro?

  Take this account from the late 1950s, where a young girl named Barbara Carlin is growing up in Sweden. Around the time she turns two years old, Barbara starts expressing these incredibly strange feelings. Every now and then, she'd ask someone where her parents were. If anyone pointed her toward her mother and father, Barbara argued with them. She didn't want to see those parents. She wanted to talk to her real ones. But no one knew what she meant by that. Other times, Barbara told people that her name wasn't actually Barbara. She says that she preferred to go by Anne. And she insisted this wasn't just a nickname.

• 27:17Rasha Pecoraro?

  She really believed she was someone else who was supposed to be living a different life with a different family. Eventually, of course, her parents started to worry. They took her to see a mental health professional. But the doctor said she wasn't delusional or hallucinating at all. So after that, her parents just sort of assumed that Barbara had a very active imagination. They tried not to worry too much about it. And then one day, while she was still very young, Barbara went up to her parents and made a shocking statement. She said, "My name is Anne Frank."

• 28:05Rasha Pecoraro?

  In 1956, two-year-old Barbara Carlin from Sweden goes to her parents and tells them that her name is Anne Frank. And that statement means nothing to them at the time because the diary of Anne Frank was first published in 1947 in Dutch. And by 1956, it hasn't made a splash in the English or the Swedish-speaking world yet. So Barbara's parents probably think she's making up some fake name. They play along with her because it seems like a harmless make-believe game. Fast forward to early 1960s, and Barbara is an elementary school student. One day, her teacher announces

• 28:49Rasha Pecoraro?

  that the class is going to learn about the Holocaust. And her first lesson is all about someone whose diary was recently published in English, Anne Frank.

• 29:02Yvette Gentile?

  When Barbara reads Anne's diary, it's like she could have written it herself. The names of Anne's siblings and friends feel so familiar to her. Plus, she and Anne have all of the same hobbies, likes, dislikes. And when Barbara sees a picture of Anne, she says it's like looking in a mirror. The resemblance between them is actually quite eerie. If you guys haven't Googled this, you should, because they look, I mean, so much alike. Barbara tells her parents her theory, that she's Anne Frank reincarnated in a new body. And they don't buy it.

• 29:46Yvette Gentile?

  They still think she's just being imaginative. But they also don't see any harm in letting her learn more about history. So they actually encourage her to keep researching Anne and to study everything that she can about her life. Then, something life-changing happens.

• 30:04Rasha Pecoraro?

  When Barbara was 10 years old, the family takes a vacation to Amsterdam. And they end up visiting the house where Anne Frank lived before she was captured by the Nazis. None of them have ever been to the city before, and they don't know their way around. But somehow, Barbara does. She navigates the streets with ease, never stopping to look at a map or even ask for directions. She also leads them directly to the house, which has since been turned into a museum. Once they're inside, Barbara says she wants to see her room. And she walks right into a particular bedroom that, as it turns out, used to be Anne's. Except, once she's in there,

• 30:49Rasha Pecoraro?

  Barbara ends up getting really upset. She says the room doesn't look right, that it's changed somehow.

• 30:57Yvette Gentile?

  She says she used to collect magazines and tear out pictures of all her favorite celebrities. Then she hung them up on the walls in her room. But now, the walls are bare and her pictures are gone. Just as Barrow finishes saying this, a tour guide walks in. And that's when the tour guide says, "Uh, yes, there used to be pictures of celebrities on the wall. They were getting worn out and damaged because so many visitors kept touching them. So the staff took them down and sent them off to be repaired and restored." By this point, Barrow's family members also think she might be Anne Frank reincarnated.

• 31:37Yvette Gentile?

  In fact, she later has an opportunity to meet one of Anne's cousins who survived the Holocaust. As soon as they see one another face to face, the cousin says that he feels a sense of connection to her, almost like they're truly family. I have to say, when I was doing some research on this, I saw an interview with her cousin, and he said exactly that. Like instantly, he felt this knowing, deep connection to her was wild. Thanks to stories like Barrow's, the evidence for reincarnation feels more and more apparent. Even researchers are on board, because over the decades, a lot of scientists have actually studied it.

• 32:22Yvette Gentile?

  And one of them is Jim Tucker, who helped Ryan identify Marty as his past self. Another was Jim's mentor, Dr. Ian Stevenson. And Dr. Stevenson was one of the first to scientifically study the phenomenon of reincarnation. Beginning in 1961, he sought out children who seemed to remember things they should have never known. And then he questioned them, backchecked their answers, and tried to identify who they might have been in a previous life. A lot of his subjects were like Ryan, in that the person they remembered wasn't famous and didn't have much of a public presence.

• 33:06Yvette Gentile?

  So it was very unlikely that Stevenson's subjects could have memorized a bunch of facts about these people who were long since deceased. The really interesting thing is that Dr. Stevenson didn't actually believe in reincarnation, or at least he didn't when he began his research. He actually set out to disprove people who claimed to remember their past lives. In fact, he regularly looked for evidence that these children had been coached, or they were just lucky guessers, among other grounded possibilities. But the harder he tried to find a logical explanation,

• 33:47Yvette Gentile?

  the clearer it became something strange was going on. And when he set up controlled experiments that were designed to prevent parents from coaching the kids, they still got the facts right. Over time, he made other interesting discoveries as well, like how 9% of his patients had skills they'd never learned before. And earlier, when we talked about how Ryan knew how to use chopsticks, I mean, we all know, that's difficult. It's difficult to learn how to use chopsticks when you're an adult, let alone five years old and you already know how to use them. We have all witnessed where you see a young child, or even an adult, who has no training,

• 34:32Yvette Gentile?

  and they know exactly how to play a musical instrument or perform, I don't know, some type of complicated task, right? That they've never studied before. But did they know this in a previous life? How do they learn it? This is the question, right?

• 34:48Rasha Pecoraro?

  Right.

• 34:49Yvette Gentile?

  And sometimes they can recall things that happen between incarnations, like even details about their own funerals.

• 34:57Rasha Pecoraro?

  This is so incredibly morbid and so fascinating at the same time. They can't offer many details on what it's like, but they say that while they're there, they get to hang out with other loved ones who have also passed away. It's almost like they're in heaven or some other afterlife. And here's where it gets really wild. Some have said that we each get a say in when we're reborn and who we get to be in the next life. Jim Tucker had one patient who claimed that while he was in the afterlife, he saw a woman who was trying to get pregnant, and he just knew in that moment that he wanted her to be his mother.

• 35:38Rasha Pecoraro?

  About nine months later, she gave birth to, well, him. I found this really wild. Some are even born with birthmarks in the same part of their body that they got fatally injured before. Like, take for instance, one of Ian Stevenson's patients. She was born with a scar-shaped birthmark that ran all around the top of her head, almost like someone had cut her skull open at some point. Except, she never had brain surgery. However, she had memories of a past life where she had had brain surgery. That's crazy.

• 36:20Rasha Pecoraro?

  But there are limits to what children can and can't remember. Most report their first past life recollections around the age of two or three. Which, you know, that makes sense. That's when a lot of kids learn to talk in full sentences for the first time. So, they wouldn't be able to speak about their memories before then, even if they had them. Except, by the time they're six or seven years old, those memories start to fade, which again, is just like Ryan's story. Remember, he started to feel distant from Marty after his trip to Los Angeles when he was six years old?

• 36:59Rasha Pecoraro?

  On top of that, 70% of children say they remember dying suddenly or violently, like in a car accident, a war, or by murder or suicide. It's enough that some people wonder if it's the trauma of a terrible death that can cause the memories to leak into the next life. I mean, that makes sense to me. The idea is that under ideal circumstances, say, if you die of old age, in bed, surrounded by your loving family, your soul is at peace. It can go through a process where you forget your past life and start over in a new body.

• 37:39Rasha Pecoraro?

  But if you don't have a chance to let go of your previous existence, those memories, those fears, and those personality traits will transfer into your next existence.

• 37:53Yvette Gentile?

  That's some deep stuff right there.

• 37:55Rasha Pecoraro?

  Yeah.

• 37:56Yvette Gentile?

  As for why reincarnation happens, well, Jim seems to think it has something to do with that little word called fate. There are certain things we're all meant to achieve in our lives, certain people we're supposed to love, certain goals that we're supposed to accomplish, and I mean, so on, right? But if we die before we can do any of those things, maybe we get reincarnated and, I don't know, have another shot at fulfilling our destinies. Or maybe that's why so many reincarnated people have sudden or violent deaths in their past lives

• 38:36Yvette Gentile?

  because they literally passed away before their time, before they even had a chance to take care of the things that they needed to do. And I don't know, maybe that's why they're back now. Take Marty Martin, for instance. Apparently, he died with a lot of regret. He felt like he wasted his life chasing money and possessions, and he hadn't shown enough love to his family and friends.

• 39:07Yvette Gentile?

  And then, all of a sudden, he had a brain hemorrhage at the young age of 61. Meaning, he never got to make things right. So, when Ryan began recalling Marty's memories, he knew he had a second chance to be less materialistic and focus on the things that were really important. And Jim Tucker says, "He has a lot of patients just like Ryan, children who wanted to fix the mistakes of their past lives." Well, he also identified one other quality that a lot of them had in common, and it could really change how we understand reincarnation.

• 39:50Yvette Gentile?

  A little over a quarter of his subjects seemed to have extrasensory perception, or ESP. Ryan was one of them. Apparently, he could see the future. One time, he told his mother that they had to buy his dad a watch for Father's Day. And Cindy didn't understand why he was so insistent. I mean, his dad already had a watch that he liked. Then, the night before Father's Day, the watch broke. Frankly, predictions like these could be lucky guesses or a coincidence for sure. But even if that's true, there's still so much to be learned about this possibility of reincarnation.

• 40:33Yvette Gentile?

  In the meantime, there is something comforting about the idea that death doesn't have to be the end. It is not the final closure, right? If you miss a loved one who's passed along, it's okay, because you might get to see them again in this life. If you die with a regret about the things you never got to do, maybe that's okay, too. You might get another chance, even after you leave this body. And if you feel discouraged that the world isn't what you want it to be, you know what? Maybe that is all right, too. Because we all may have infinite chances to make things better

• 41:17Yvette Gentile?

  for the rest of eternity. And if you ever feel discouraged that the world isn't what you want it to be, maybe that's all right, too. Because we all may have infinite chances to make things better for the rest of eternity.

• 41:36Rasha Pecoraro?

  After all, if change is eternal, then so is hope. A grander existence is even more possible than we know. And while you might not see it yet, you're already a part of it.

• 42:03Rasha Pecoraro?

  This is So Supernatural, an Audiochuck original, produced by Crime House. You can connect with us on Instagram at So Supernatural Pod and visit our website at sosupernaturalpodcast.com. Joining Vett and me next Friday for an all-new episode.

• 42:23Rasha Pecoraro?

  I think Chuck would approve.

• 42:29Speaker 03

  I've been having a hard time trying to explain what Midnight Burger is. How about I let them give it a shot?

• 42:35Speaker 00

  Your podcast is amazing.

• 42:36Speaker 04

  It's such an amazing show altogether. You guys have actively ruined all other audio dramas for me. You can't get people to understand the humaning that happens in this damn show. Keep doing what you're doing, because it's awesome. You might not think it, but you are far more important than you realize. Thank you.

• 42:52Speaker 03

  At the nexus of all things, there is a diner. Look for Midnight Burger on your favorite podcasting app, or just go to weopenat6.com.