Glenn Greenwald: CIA's Venezuela Coup, Trump Meets Lula & Epstein Whistleblowers | PBD Podcast | Ep. 674

Patrick Bet-David sits down with journalist Glenn Greenwald for a hard-hitting discussion on Venezuela’s boat strikes, alleged CIA plots to overthrow Nicolás Maduro, and the political implications of Trump’s meeting with Brazilian President Lula da Silva. ------ Ⓜ️ MINNECT WITH GLENN GREENWALD: https://bit.ly/49oNLqY 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON SPOTIFY: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g57zR2 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ITUNES: ⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g1bXAh 🎙️ FOLLOW THE PODCAST ON ALL PLATFORMS: https://bit.ly/4eXQl6A 🥃 BOARDROOM CIGAR LOUNGE: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4pzLEXj⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4pzLEXj 🍋 ZEST IT FORWARD: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4kJ71lc ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4kJ71lc 📕 PBD'S BOOK "THE ACADEMY": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/41rtEV4⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/41rtEV4 👔 BET-DAVID CONSULTING: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4lzQph2 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4lzQph2 📺 JOIN THE CHANNEL: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bit.ly/4g5C6Or 💬 TEXT US: Text “PODCAST” to 310-340-1132 to get the latest updates in real-time! ABOUT US: Patrick Bet-David is the founder and CEO of Valuetainment Media. He is the author of the #1 Wall Street Journal Bestseller “Your Next Five Moves” (Simon & Schuster) and a father of 2 boys and 2 girls. He currently resides in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web. Like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 0:57Speaker 02

  Did you ever think you would make it?

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Adam, what's your point? The future looks bright.

• 1:09Speaker 03

  My handshake is better than anything I ever signed, right here.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  You are a one of one? My son's right there. I don't think I've ever said this before.

• 1:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Glenn Greenwald in the house. How you doing?

• 1:24Speaker 05

  Good to be here. Good to be back.

• 1:25Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes, except this time it's just you and I. We don't have the whole crew.

• 1:27Speaker 05

  I was saying I missed the whole crew, but...

• 1:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, it's a crew. Just so you know, he misses you guys, okay?

• 1:31Speaker 05

  Absolutely. I'm gonna do like a 24-hour binge on the crew, just so I thought they were gonna be here.

• 1:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so how are you feeling with everything that's going on right now? I guess maybe the one question to ask is, I got a lot of things I want to talk to you about. I want to know what's going on with Brazil, because Lula just met with...

• 1:47Speaker 05

  Trump.

• 1:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Trump in Malaysia, if I'm not mistaken. And then, you know, Lula says, you know, it looks like some good's gonna happen. Venezuela, you got Maduro coming out saying what he's saying. Petro is doing what he's doing in Colombia. Argentina, Malay got the votes that he got. So I'm curious what you think about that. Palantir with Peter Thiel, you know, what he wants to do with surveillance and the Antichrist. Series that he did. David Ellison with Skydance and you know how he took a. You know, small company into now buying up all these other company that Ellison family is becoming a household name. But maybe let's start off with the following. So for you, you, you were. At least for me, the way I found out about you was in um. Twenty thirteen when you flew out, I think in Hong Kong and he did your Snowden. Meeting with them.

• 2:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Conversation, you know, the whistleblower. Since Snowden Assange, a lot of things have happened. To give birth to the next Snowden and Assange to come out. Right? You got Epstein, we can find out a lot about that. You got. Biden's camp, we had to wait till Twitter files to learn about that. You have a lot of different things that's happened. Why do you think we haven't had a Snowden and Assange since Snowden and Assange?

• 2:56Speaker 05

  Such a good question, I think. When. There was this spate of whistleblowers, uh, and you know, I think Julian Assange is probably one of the most visionary people of the last fifty years in terms of his understanding before anyone else's. That in the age of the internet and with digit, with everything being maintained in of digitalized form. That the great leaks, the way we're gonna find out the big stories about what power centers are doing would be through mass digital leaks. I think people forget, you know. When there was this Pentagon Papers uh, leak in, in, in the early nineteen seventies where Daniel Ellsberg discovered the government was systematically lying to the. American people about the Vietnam War and Daniel Ellsberg was working on the inside of that. Was originally in favor of the Vietnam War, came to really understand it was a lie. And he wanted to leak, you know, there was this.

• 3:41Speaker 05

  Big massive internal study that the Pentagon did about Vietnam called the Pentagon Papers where it basically concluded. Everything they were telling the public was a lie. They were telling the public we're about to win. Internally, they knew the best they could hope for was a stalemate and likely they were gonna lose no matter what they did. You know, we had. Tens of thousands of American soldiers dying, hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese, Vietnamese being killed. And he decided very bravely to leak this to the New York Times and the Washington Post. Because he felt like he couldn't live with himself if he concealed the truth. And his big challenge at the time was, how do you take 40,000 pages and deliver them to the New York Times and watch about that without getting caught? You know, he literally went to the pharmacy and with a big bag of nickels and used the photo stop machine.

• 4:26Speaker 05

  And Julian understood that now that everything's digitalized, everything could be transported and sent in a matter of minutes with great ease. And that was the future of reporting and leaks and set up a system to make it capable of being done with anonymity. And that's what led to so many of the leaking stories that led to Snowden and other ones like it. And it was visionary and that's why they wanted to set about out to destroy Julian Assange. And one of the things that started happening was, and this was under the Obama administration, is the Obama administration was far more aggressive in trying to destroy this process, destroy journalism, destroy sources than anyone else.

• 5:06Speaker 05

  They took this 1917 law called the Espionage Act, which was actually introduced by Woodrow Wilson to justify the imprisonment of people speaking out against US participation in World War I. And it was an incredibly draconian law. It was intended to be that way. And it was never really used before against leakers, against people in Washington leaking classified information to journalists, which happens literally every day. And the Obama administration got obsessed with destroying leakers. You know, you had Chelsea Manning, who was an army private in Iraq. She discovered hundreds of thousands of pages showing war crimes of the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, sent it to WikiLeaks in a matter of about six seconds. That was, you know, part of Julian's theory. And it was all done.

• 5:51Speaker 05

  She had no more access to classified information. She got caught. She was out of the military, no more ever a threat. She had no more access to classified information. They didn't just imprison her, they imprisoned her in the harshest possible conditions. I visited her in Fort Leavenworth, which is in Kansas. I mean, it was not a joke. Same with Snowden. Snowden leaked to us. He didn't get caught, but he came forward and identified himself as the leaker because he felt he wanted to explain himself. And they charged him with massive felonies under the Espionage Act. And the question was, why? Even if you think what he did was wrong, why do you need to put him in prison for the next 50 years? He has no longer any access to classified information. And it was very obvious they were trying to create this climate of fear where anyone thinking about, maybe I'm going to be the

• 6:35Speaker 05

  next Edward Snowden, or be the next Julian Assange, had to understand that if they did so, they weren't going to just go to prison. They were going to have their lives completely destroyed. I mean, look what they did to Julian Assange. They tried to break him physically, emotionally, psychologically. And I think that's become a major reason why.

• 6:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you think when a whistleblower is doing it, don't you think Snowden and Assange, and you're going to know this better than I would, don't you think they know, like, if I do this, my life's going to change? We've all seen the movies. We've all seen the documentaries. Don't you think they're sitting there saying, I know if I release this. I feel like they're typically not money driven. It's crusade driven. It's correcting an injustice. They feel the world needs to know this. And they kind of know, you're going to suffer the consequences of doing this, right? So wouldn't that be like the DNA of the next whistleblower to come out saying, I know I'm going to get in trouble anyways?

• 7:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's a good point. For me, it's what makes people like that so admirable. I mean, think about what Snowden had in his hands. He could have sold that to Russia, or China, or any US adversary, and lived the rest of his life extremely rich. He didn't do that. He brought it to American journalists. And when he brought it to us, he said, be extremely careful. Don't publish anything that might be... He was a very conservative whistleblower in that sense. Julian too. Julian was very cautious in terms of how they released, especially the first years of release. They would redact everything. They would withhold things. They tried to work with the State Department to get State Department input. At the same time, of course, they understood they were sacrificing their

• 8:06Speaker 05

  liberty for a cause. For me, that's what makes them so noble. I don't, though, think they anticipated... That their lives would be completely destroyed.

• 8:16Patrick Bet-David?

  You don't think so?

• 8:18Speaker 05

  They knew it was a chance. I mean, I remember, as a matter of fact, I'll just tell you quickly, when I was with Snowden in Hong Kong, and I hadn't met him before, I didn't know much about him, and I got to know him, and I really became convinced that he was exactly who he said he was, that his motives were authentic. Sometimes with these people, they're like a little crazy, they're disillusioned, they're like, you know, on the margins of society, they're disgruntled. He wasn't any of those things. It was almost like he was so pure.

• 8:41Patrick Bet-David?

  That's the picture, right? Is that the hotel room picture?

• 8:44Speaker 05

  This is, that's a bit, we went back and visited him. That's myself and my husband David. That's Laura Poitras, who directed Citizen Four, which won the Oscar about the work we were doing. And then there's Snowden. So that's about a year after. The scene from the film, if you go up into the right-hand corner there, that's myself and Snowden. And I think that's on the second or third day of being in Hong Kong, where we were going over the files. That was all from Laura Poitras filming. So I became very convinced of the authenticity of his motives. And it's a great point, because we would ask him, you know, what's your plan for getting out of here? Like, the idea was we were going to start publishing while we're there. We had to start publishing as quickly as possible for a lot of reasons. And we were in Hong Kong, and the question was, how are you going to get out of here? And he said, you know what, I don't, he didn't want to involve us in that,

• 9:27Speaker 05

  because he knew if we were involved in his escape plan, we could then be criminally charged with aiding and abetting a fugitive, or crimes like that. But he didn't really have a plan. He didn't really care. And the whole time I was working with him and becoming more and more respectful and admiring of what he had done, he's 29 years old, he has a beautiful girlfriend, his high school sweetheart, making a lot of money, has a great future ahead of him, sacrificed it all because out of conviction, he really believed it was wrong for Americans not to know what the government was doing to the internet. Not obviously the details of it, that's fine, keep that classified, the methods that you spy on people. But just the fact that they converted the internet into this weapon, unprecedented weapon of surveillance and coercion and monitoring.

• 10:12Speaker 05

  The fact that he just couldn't live with himself like Daniel Ellsberg unless he came forward for me was so I don't know about the whole time as I got to know him better as we bonded because you know you go through something like that with someone you really we didn't know if the CIA was gonna barge in the door it was a very high tension the Chinese you know there was a dark cloud hanging over us the whole time which is I knew that at some point we were gonna leave or he was gonna get apprehended and the next time I would see him would be on television where he would be wearing an orange jumpsuit in shackles ready to go to some high security national security dungeon and he was ready for that so you are right he knew that was a great possibility and the reason why they hate Snowden so much is because that didn't happen to him he got away he was I mean but

• 10:56Speaker 05

  by a lot of luck but he ended up getting asylum in Russia he can't leave Russia but I don't know if you've been to Russia but Russia is you know a beautiful country rich in history and literature and culture and architecture and all sorts of you know fascinating things but he didn't choose to live in Russia so it's a punishment but it's not the same as being in prison and he's considered a hero around the world wrote a bestselling book that's what they're so enraged by is that he did have the potential to inspire people just in terms of how he got away.

• 11:27Patrick Bet-David?

  You think if either one of them ever got pardoned it'd come back to the States?

• 11:30Speaker 05

  I yeah I mean Snowden has often said he would come back you know Snowden's American his wife is American his kid he doesn't want his kids growing up in Russia they have two small children now that was not his choice they trapped him there he's always said he would come back to Russia I think the question is I mean back to the US the question is you know how could he do that would he be safe you know he is enemy number one I'm saying in theory he would he wants to how that would work what that would look like that's a lot but but we're not really close to that yet.

• 12:01Patrick Bet-David?

  What would be the selling point like especially to the government the government fears no matter who the government is whoever's the next administration left or right They fear a whistleblower. They fear the market knowing what's going on. They fear, even when, remember when the Waltz signal messages that was going on, the meeting and that was leaked. No president wants that to be leaked. It's a form of embarrassment, like you don't have control of your leadership team to leak information to you. Why would a president, sitting president, pardon Snowden or Assange?

• 12:34Speaker 05

  I'll give you the reason. First of all, in the transition, when, after Trump was declared the loser of the 2020 election, but before he left office, so, you know, that December, that November 6th to January 20th period, I was working very hard to try and convince Trump.

• 12:51Patrick Bet-David?

  That was the perfect time.

• 12:53Speaker 05

  He came extremely close.

• 12:55Patrick Bet-David?

  That was the perfect time.

• 12:56Speaker 05

  He came an inch away. Patrick, he came an inch away.

• 12:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Wow.

• 12:59Speaker 05

  I'll tell you what happened. As you probably recall, that was when January 6th happened. And after January 6th, it wasn't just Democrats, but also the Republicans who started an impeachment proceeding against Trump, the second. And the question was, why are you impeaching a president who's two weeks from being on his way out the door? And the reason was, is a lot of the Republicans, the establishment types, the ones who are loyal to the security state, were petrified that Trump would do certain things on his way out. They were petrified he was going to declassify JFK files, Martin Luther King files, other files that he was promising to declassify. They were also really worried he was going to pardon, particularly Snowden. Assange was on the agenda. He never really got close to Assange.

• 13:44Speaker 05

  And a bunch of Republican senators made clear to him, if you pardon Edward Snowden, we're going to let this impeachment proceeding go through and we're going to convict you. They had a kind of sword of Damocles hanging over his head.

• 13:55Patrick Bet-David?

  Republicans or Democrats?

• 13:57Speaker 05

  Republican senators. You know, sort of the Mitch McConnell crowd, Tom Cotton, the main person leading, because he had a lot of people he trusted in his ear urging him to pardon Snowden. People like Matt Gaetz and Rand Paul, people who are very close to him, kind of more privacy oriented people. Because this is a thing that people forget. Trump hated these agencies. Remember, these agencies spied on Trump's campaign. The NSA, the FBI, they spied on his campaign in 2016. He was at war with the CIA. He was at war with the deep state. Trump, before Trump ever got into politics, he was one of the people, I remember very well, when we did the Snowden reporting, he said Snowden's a traitor, hang him, execute him. But then, once Trump understood what these agencies really were,

• 14:42Speaker 05

  the abuses that they're capable of, that they inflict this on the American people, that he himself was victimized by it, he had a kind of soft spot in his heart for what Snowden did. He wanted to pardon Snowden, and he got so close to doing it. The reason he didn't-

• 14:57Patrick Bet-David?

  How does so close mean? Define so close.

• 15:00Speaker 05

  Well, and by the way, I knew what was going on because I was very involved in lobbying the Trump administration, working with them. But you don't have to take my word for it. After Trump left office, he did an interview with Candace Owens. I think maybe like six weeks, eight weeks after he left office. And she was very much an advocate for pardoning Snowden Assange. She said to him, "Why wouldn't you pardon Edward Snowden? This is somebody who exposed the very agencies that victimized you, that blew the whistle on the abuses that they aimed at you." And he said, "I came extremely close to pardoning one of them, not so close to the other. I knew it was Snowden." And he just said, "At the end of the day, there were people on one side saying he was a great guy who deserved it,

• 15:44Speaker 05

  other people saying he was a bad guy, it was Mike Pompeo principally, who was the CIA director."

• 15:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Wasn't Mike Pompeo the same guy that wanted to kill Snowden, or the 2017-

• 15:52Speaker 05

  Assange, Assange.

• 15:53Patrick Bet-David?

  That he wanted to take him out?

• 15:54Speaker 05

  Yeah, there was, yeah. And, yeah, he wanted to assassinate Julian Assange. I mean, that guy's a maniac. He was one of the worst people. That, one of the worst people in the first Trump administration was Mike Pompeo, responsible for a lot of the worst parts of the first Trump administration.

• 16:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Would you put him as a Dick Cheney Jr. type?

• 16:11Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. I mean, that was Trump's, the first administration, Trump really, and they'll tell you this. You know, Trump had never been in Washington before. Washington is a cesspool. You know, all of Washington is built to make sure that democracy doesn't matter. You have Democrats, Republican presidents come and go, and the idea is, it can't matter. So they know how to manipulate. I mean, Obama came in, you know, he was in politics for about four seconds. Suddenly, he's the commander in chief. They manipulated him in about three days. You know, he came in vowing to undo all these Bush Cheney programs, the war on terror. And they sent in guys from Princeton, you know, special forces guys, guys with big medals on their chest. And they were like, sir, if you eliminate this program, you will have a terrorist attack. It will be on your hands, almost threatening.

• 16:54Speaker 05

  They know how to control the government, you know, the election. But, and so Trump in that first term really didn't know how Washington worked. He ended up having a lot of people in his administration there to sabotage what he was doing, not to advance it. And that was the big difference between the first and second term.

• 17:08Patrick Bet-David?

  It's almost as if he's had eight years of experience to finally get to the point that he knows everybody, which now essentially, let's say this is his third term. It's not, it's a second term that he now knows. He's full of shit. He's 50/50. That guy's bot. That guy's honest. That guy's driven by Israel. That guy's driven by war. That guy's driven by this. He finally has a little bit of a sense where everybody's at, which you agree with that.

• 17:37Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. And beyond that, I would say that one of the things that I was, that, you know, there were so many things that made me hate the media more than ever in the first Trump term. Among the leading causes was that you had people in the Trump administration openly sabotaging his policies, the policies on which he ran, the policies that caused Americans to vote for him. We're supposed to have civilian control in the United States, meaning it's not generals that dictate our country. There's a lot of countries, as you well know, where the military dictates everything. That's not our country. We have civilian rule, a commander in chief, a civilian elected official is in charge of the military, fundamental how the United States works. You had generals, you know, like General Kelly, General Mattis, H.R.

• 18:21Speaker 05

  McMaster, who were openly telling the media, Trump's giving us this order, withdraw from Syria, Trump's giving us order to do this, and we're not doing it, we're manipulating him. And they were celebrated for that by the media. Oh, these are the adults in the room. In other words, you had these unelected military officials there to do the bidding of the deep state and the establishment undermining the elected president. And a lot of people inside the Trump administration were there to sabotage, not to advance what he was doing. Everyone I talked to in that interim period between when he left in 2020 and then was reelected 2024 in close to Trump world, their number one mission was how do we prevent that mistake? How do we foster a culture of loyalty so that people who work for Trump, whether they

• 19:04Speaker 05

  agree with him or not, I mean Marco Rubio, I'm not convinced he agrees with Trump's vision of foreign policy. His whole life has been kind of a neoconservative vision, but they created a culture where everyone understands that you're there to carry out Trump's wishes and orders and policies. And if you don't, you're gone. And that's for me, the big difference between the first and second administrations. Trump learned how Washington works.

• 19:27Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 19:51Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 20:20Patrick Bet-David?

  How much of that is Susie Wiles protecting it? How much of that is the fact that she is knowing everybody and is telling Trump, hey, we can't do that again. You can't be too forgiving with this guy. We got to move on with that guy. How much is her protecting him versus if not her, then who is it?

• 20:40Speaker 05

  Oh yeah, she's super smart. I mean, but you know, the thing is, at the end of the day, whenever you have power and you look at the history of power centers throughout history, you have infiltration and snakes worming their way in. People just understand, you know, people know how to flatter Trump, how to talk to Trump, how to convince Trump. Susie Wiles is incredibly smart and ruthless operator. But Susie Wiles has been around for a long time. You know, she was a big lobbyist for lobbying for and did work for Carter, for foreign governments, for major corporations. She's not some anti-establishment rebel outsider, but Trump trusts her and I think she sees her

• 21:22Speaker 05

  job as protecting Trump and she's very good at that. So that is part of it. But I also think you have people like Stephen Miller, who are, is, you know, loyal to the death to Trump.

• 21:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Would you put him at number one, most, biggest loyalist?

• 21:37Speaker 05

  Yes, I think so.

• 21:38Patrick Bet-David?

  Who's top three in your opinion?

• 21:41Speaker 05

  Uh, definitely Stephen Miller. Um, I think he's very comfortable with, uh, Howard Litkov, who, who's the Commerce Secretary, who's he's known, you know, these kind of people he's known forever. Uh, no, no, the Commerce Secretary, Howard, uh,

• 21:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Lutnick.

• 21:59Speaker 05

  Lutnick, Howard Lutnick. I'm mixing with Steve Whitaker.

• 22:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Steve Whitaker, yeah.

• 22:02Speaker 05

  You know, that's like a billionaire, real estate guy.

• 22:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Understand each other, similar life, New York came up, yeah.

• 22:09Speaker 05

  Very transactional.

• 22:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Who, who is the least? If those are the top, who are the least?

• 22:14Speaker 05

  Well, I think he gets rid of the, you know, if there's the least.

• 22:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Is there anybody there that right now, you're like, if things flipped in 2027, 2028, they would turn on Trump on a heartbeat?

• 22:24Speaker 05

  I think Rubio would turn on Trump on a heartbeat. Uh, Rubio is very, you know, he, Rubio wants to be president and right now it's in Rubio's interest to, Rubio is probably the most powerful person in the administration, you know, at least in foreign policy, probably Stephen Miller in domestic policy. I mean.

• 22:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Ahead of Vance?

• 22:43Speaker 05

  Yes, I mean, you know, Rubio is running the State Department and being National Security Advisor.

• 22:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. He joked about it one time in an interview. I got, I'm working two jobs right now, you know.

• 22:52Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:53Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't know if you remember that or not, when he joked about it.

• 22:55Speaker 05

  No, no, yeah, I mean, the last person to do that was Henry Kissinger.

• 22:57Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 22:57Speaker 05

  There's no more powerful foreign policy advisor in American history than Henry Kissinger.

• 23:01Patrick Bet-David?

  You saw Trump edify Rubio about a week and a half ago. He said, look, I don't know, I think some are saying that Rubio may be better than Kissinger was, you know, he's kind of Kissinger leaked, Kissinger was famous for leaking. Do you remember that?

• 23:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 23:17Patrick Bet-David?

  So he's, he's trying to, uh, he's doing his part of being a kingmaker as well and trying to see who's gonna run 2028. But you're saying Rubio could flip, huh? You think Rubio could turn on him?

• 23:26Speaker 05

  I don't think Rubio is a true believer in the America First agenda in the way that J D Vance, I think, is.

• 23:32Patrick Bet-David?

  You think J D is more than Rubio is?

• 23:34Speaker 05

  Depending on how you define America First, you know, it's, it's, you know, when Trump bombed Iran, the idea was America First is whatever Trump says it is, right? Trump's the, the creator of the America First movement, the leader of it, the person who brought it into public consciousness. So there are no principles separate and apart from Trump's decision. I don't believe this. I think it's a very, that's a call to personality. That's not a political movement. Political movement is based on principles. So if you look at the principles on which America First is based, I think how the true believers understood what differentiated America First movement from prior Republican orthodoxy. I believe J D Vance is as convicted of a true believer as anybody in the administration, certainly far more than Marco Rubio.

• 24:19Speaker 05

  Just, let's take Ukraine, for example, which for me is kind of a flashpoint. Obviously, Israel is the main one. We can talk about that if you want, but I have a lot to say on that, obviously. But let's, let's look at Ukraine, which people are less emotional about. Traditionally, the Republican position is go destroy Russia. Russia's our enemy. Who's ever on enemy? We go to war against, you know, fund American allies till the end. Lots of Republicans have gotten attributed to Biden because that was Biden's policy too. And the Democrats were super obsessed with Ukraine. You go to any like liberal blue district in the United States and you see nothing but Ukrainian flag still. It became kind of a religion, almost like replacing the LGBT flag.

• 24:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Pence was absolutely wise.

• 24:56Speaker 05

  Bizarre, bizarre. But a lot of Republicans were fully on board with that as well, just because that's the standard, let's say neocon, war mongering, kind of interventionist mindset that has driven both parties since the end of the cold, since, since the, the start of the Cold War, but even then the end. And one of the planks of America first was no, we have to stop wasting all our resources on foreign wars that don't affect the lives of American citizens. Like, who gives a shit who rules various provinces in Eastern Ukraine? That's not something that affects the forgotten man in Ohio or Pennsylvania, or that, that's a waste of money that's going to Raytheon's pocket and who knows what kind of oligarchs in Kiev. And that's the kind of waste of war that MAGA and America first was created

• 25:41Speaker 05

  to oppose. And that's why Trump has been so contemptuous of this war. Marco Rubio has been a loud vocal supporter of funding the war in Ukraine, whereas JD Vance from the start has been highly skeptical. So that to me, I just, one example illustrative of, I think, what differentiates those two and why I think JD Vance is a much more faithful, adherent to the America first agenda than say Marco Rubio. It's not even close.

• 26:04Patrick Bet-David?

  So you prefer JD?

• 26:05Speaker 05

  On those issues, yes. Even in that, even in that chat, remember in that, you know, in that chat that leaked about, yeah, the wall chat about bombing Yemen?

• 26:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Yep.

• 26:15Speaker 05

  JD was pushing back, you know, he was saying like, are you, this doesn't seem like something we need to do right now. Why don't we wait a couple of months? What's the urgency?

• 26:22Patrick Bet-David?

  I remember that.

• 26:23Speaker 05

  And then once it happened, you know, he was like, yeah, kill them. But, you know, that's just how politicians operate.

• 26:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Second guessing himself is maybe the first second guessing is the true who he is. And then second step is I'm going to be loyalist and get in line.

• 26:35Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, once, once he hears, no, Trump wants this. This is, Steve Miller said, you know, Trump, this is decided Trump wants this. Then he gets on board because that's how you survive and you keep influence and power. But his first reaction was, wait a minute, why are we doing this? Same with Tulsi. That was her reaction too. I think Tulsi's a more. Faithful adherent to the America First Agenda than a lot of the people surrounding Trump.

• 26:57Patrick Bet-David?

  So, okay, so I got, I got, how much time we got, Rob? Can you tell Mateo to text me by when I have to finish? Because we got a lot of things I want to go through with this. So, okay, let's go with the conversation about whistleblower. Let's go past that one. If there were, because I have my own list, I'm curious what yours is. If there were five areas that are the most important for Americans to know, and there is somebody that's on the tipping point of being a whistleblower, that needs to be inspired. What would be five departments, areas of knowledge,

• 27:38Patrick Bet-David?

  that somebody has access to information that was like, you know, the Afghanistan, the, the, the, the things that Snowden and Assange had, Hillary Clinton, all that stuff that, that came out. What would be the five areas for a whistleblower with access to information, if they're inspired and they're willing to go through the challenges that goes through, for them to blow the whistle?

• 27:59Speaker 05

  I would, I would start with the Epstein files.

• 28:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Number one.

• 28:02Speaker 05

  Only because it's a window into how corrupted and how deceitful our global elite is. You know, right now, there's a huge scandal in the UK because a lot of stuff is emerging despite the Trump administration's concealment of these files with Prince Andrew, that he was far closer to Epstein, than he claimed, that his relationship extended far beyond the date he did. So, there's a lot untold in there. I'm not saying the issue of, you know, who was with Jeffrey Epstein, for whatever reasons, in and of itself is the most important thing. But I think the reasons why two consecutive governments have hidden those files, first Biden administration, now Trump, reveals a lot about how just global elites function in general.

• 28:46Speaker 05

  So that's, I would, I, I, I just think it would be something that would enable Americans to understand the true depths of the decadence inside global elite culture. So that's number one. Number two, I would say, there's a lot of questions about where all that money went that we sent to Ukraine. There's a lot of, of... I think massive, I mean, Ukraine was always known as the most corrupt place in Europe before this war started. Lots of evidence about how there's no, you know, Rand Paul tried to introduce a, an amendment saying before any more money goes to Ukraine, we just should have an audit of where it's going. And he got accused of being a Russian agent. The bipartisan Senate rejected that. I'd love to have an audit of where that money has gone. Billions and billions

• 29:28Speaker 05

  and billions. There's a lot about the US Israeli relationship, including the fact that we tried to get Israel to do a whole bunch of things, both Biden and Trump. They basically stuck their middle finger up at us and we swallowed it. And like, why?

• 29:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Which area? Be specific.

• 29:43Speaker 05

  Well, I mean, there's this, you know, there's a case that just came out yesterday where the, in 2022, the Israelis shot in the head an American journalist in the West Bank. Very, you know, respected American journalist. She had covered that region for a long time. And the Israelis first denied it and said, no, it was, it wasn't us. And then it turned out it was absolutely them. They admitted it. They said it was unintentional. The military investigators for the United States who investigated it concluded that the Israelis did it on purpose, that they knew that she was a journalist, that they knew who she was, and they shot her in the head because of that. And high level Biden State Department officials overrode that and said, no, we cannot publish this. We're going to come

• 30:28Speaker 05

  out and say that it was unintentional.

• 30:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you know who?

• 30:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, her name is Abu, if you type US journalist, yeah, it's her. It's, I just, her name escapes me. It's, yeah, Shereen Abu Akla. There was just an article there. You see the brother of journalist Shereen, shot dead by the Israeli army three years ago.

• 30:47Patrick Bet-David?

  What I want to know is the higher up of Biden's administration that said, we can't, you know, talk about this.

• 30:53Speaker 05

  Right, exactly. That's what I'm saying.

• 30:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Who was it though? Who was the higher up?

• 30:56Speaker 05

  Blinken.

• 30:56Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, okay, got it.

• 30:57Speaker 05

  Who's, you know, a lifelong Israeli, Israel supporter. You know, he's Jewish. He grew up in circles where you're taught to love Israel. Your duty is to support Israel, to defend Israel. I think the more lights shot, shown on that relationship. Also, you know, even in terms of the West Bank, you know, Trump said, under no Circumstances will Israel annex the West Bank, but Israel is annexed in the West Bank. Our policy for decades has been it's extremely harmful to American interests for Israel to annex the West Bank because the more of the settlements expand, the less likely it is for a two-state solution. And without a two-state solution, our interests in the region are jeopardized. Israel doesn't care. They just keep ignoring us. They just go back to Reagan and Bush 41, where enraged that Israel was expanding settlements, and they just do it anyway.

• 31:39Speaker 05

  So, why, why, why does that happen? Why are, why is this tiny little country who we finance, who we support, who we arm, who we protect?

• 31:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you do me a favor? And by the way, so far I have three of them, and I want to get to the fourth and fifth, but let's stay on this because we'll get to the fourth and the fifth. Try to give me the argument from somebody who would be disagreeing with you, but from a noble side, and then give the argument from your side, which is noble. You're a straight-up guy. But try to give both arguments, not, not from the standpoint of, I think they're evil, I think they're this, I think they're that. Try to give both sides of the argument. Why do you think that is?

• 32:20Speaker 05

  Okay, so the argument as to why we do so much for this country, this, by the way, in a region that, I mean, oil is important there, but Israel doesn't have oil. Israel, you know, is in the Mediterranean. It doesn't, it's not a very geostrategically vital location for the United States. The argument, though, is, is that by having an ally in the region with whom we work very closely militarily, technologically, economically, it's almost like a forward operating base. They're like an arm of the American military that does our dirty work for us in the Middle East, so that we don't have to go to war in the Middle East. We don't, we rely on Israel. They give us technology that is helpful. You know, their tech sector is very, very advanced. They do develop weapons. They develop

• 33:05Speaker 05

  surveillance technology that's among the best in the world, that sometimes we don't even develop. They share it with us. So we get benefits from protecting them, from arming them, from financing them. That basically, you know, and it's the only democracy in the region, and we benefit for some reason for having democracy in that region.

• 33:23Speaker 05

  That's the argument is that we get benefits from it. It's not just a one-way street that for all the money we give them, all the arms, all the sacrificing of soft power and global standing that we incur to protect them, we get benefits the other way. The reason that's not true is because, as I just got done saying, I mean, look at how many times Israel has done exactly the things we insist are the things that harm us and our interest in the region. You go back so many years, back to the 70s, the 80s, really, let's say the 80s. The position of the Reagan administration, the Bush 41 administration was your continuous refusal to enter into a two-state solution, to your permission to settlers to keep expanding in the West Bank is destroying a two-state solution.

• 34:08Speaker 05

  And our problem in the Middle East, the reason why so many people in the region hate us, the reason there's so much anti-Americanism, the reason why things like 9/11 happen, is because so many Arabs and Muslims hate us in the region. And the reason they hate us principally is because they know that we are the ones giving you the weapons to kill Palestinians and Muslims in the West Bank and Gaza. And we need a peace there, but you're preventing a peace and you're harming, and David Petraeus, lots of generals have said, our biggest problem in the Middle East comes from Israel's refusal to stop these settlements. And they, even though they're dependent on us, even though they need our money, even though we can, they just, they just refuse. On top of that, when we did this Snowden reporting, we provide Israel with more raw

• 34:51Speaker 05

  data, including about American citizens, than any other country in the world. We give them, we just hand them huge amounts of our surveillance. In response, on the list of greatest threats to, foreign threats to surveillance, Israel is the number one greatest adversary that spies on us with the most efficacy, with the least amount of limits. We publish these, these, these articles showing that, so we're financing this country, you know, we're financing this country, we're arming them, we're doing everything for them. And in return, they pursue policies that directly harm our interests in very serious ways, and they spy on us, you know, constantly. They spy on us all

• 35:32Speaker 05

  The time mean the AIPAC has gotten caught working with Pentagon officials to steal extremely sensitive secrets that they passed to to Israel. They've been, you know, the Pentagon officials were convicted for that. AIPAC got their case dismissed under strange circumstances. You had Jonathan Pollard, who was spying on the US government from inside the US government, handing it to Israel, became a hero in Israel. They shoot Americans, they kill Americans, there are Americans dying in their detention facility. Where is this allyship? Like where, how are we benefiting from Israel? We you don't look at the UN and you might as you know, nothing people talk about the UN like it's some Marxist organization. It's just a collection of the governments around the world, you know, the governments around the world, a point, the representatives, they go vote the way the government wants. That's all it is. We're constantly isolated in the world to protect Israel.

• 36:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Who would be your second? So say you you don't have Israel. Say you stop Israel and all the intel, I think you would agree that Mossad is one of the best intel agencies in the world.

• 36:26Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 36:26Patrick Bet-David?

  So what happens? Say, say, we both say we're done. Forget about the relationship. It's done. America and Israel no longer have a relationship, no longer exchanging of intel, no longer have given intel to to us in the Middle East, pretty chaotic area. Who's our second partner?

• 36:44Speaker 05

  Well, we have a lot of very close allies in that region. I mean, we have a gigantic military base in Qatar. Have you been to Doha? Like you go to Doha and you and not just the Emiratis, the I mean, we the thing is, first of all, I'm not even saying cut off our relationship with Israel. Why do we have to finance them? Why do we have to send billions of dollars every year to them? Many billions more?

• 37:05Patrick Bet-David?

  And maybe it's in exchange for, you know, you said it earlier, they don't have like if it was, if we're dealing with Qatari, if we're dealing with some of these other guys, they already have plenty of money. These guys already have oil, they have resources. You said they don't have resources, right? Their resources is what? Business? I don't even know where they get their money from.

• 37:24Speaker 05

  But what they don't have, but the thing is, is like these countries with whom we're allied in the Middle East, and Trump loves them, by the way, like the Saudis, the Emiratis, the Qataris, the Jordanians, Trump loves them for a lot of reasons. The problem with them that they have, they have endless amounts of money because of oil, and they've turned their societies into, you know, you you visit those countries and the infrastructure and the architecture is far more advanced, the streets are than the United States, the streets are cleaner, the airports work better, everything's more advanced. But it relies on extreme levels of repression. Their dictatorships, very brutal dictatorships.

• 38:00Patrick Bet-David?

  So who do you trust more?

• 38:01Speaker 05

  Well, but I mean, so I'm just saying that what they need that they don't have is military protection, surveillance technology. We do, we're crucial to their security. We are, like, in fact, when, when-

• 38:14Patrick Bet-David?

  There is Qatar security or Israel security?

• 38:17Speaker 05

  We're crucial to Qatar security, we're crucial to Saudi security, we're crucial to Emirati security.

• 38:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Can I give you how I see this?

• 38:22Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 38:25Patrick Bet-David?

  I grew up in Iran-

• 38:27Speaker 05

  Right.

• 38:27Patrick Bet-David?

  And I was born on Merhebi Shishom, October 1878. Another kid was born a month after me. We grew up like this. That kid, good kid, good family, both parents are doctors. They did very well. One is a doctor, the mother was an accountant, brilliant, very good families. And as we were coming up, I knew I wasn't going to get anything from my parents. They didn't have money. They just brought me to America. My dad was a, you know, worker, 99 cent store in Inglewood, California. My mother was, she's never worked for as long as I've known her, you know, homemaker. We came here.

• 39:01Speaker 05

  Why did you come though? Like, what was the reason?

• 39:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Khomeini died, six weeks later we escaped. June 3rd, 89, when he died, we escaped six weeks-

• 39:08Speaker 05

  But I'm saying, why, why did you, if you weren't, you know, like, kind of one of those oligarchical families under the Shah, why, oh, a Christian family?

• 39:13Patrick Bet-David?

  We're a Christian family. My mom didn't feel safe. I was about to turn 12. She didn't want me to serve the military in Iran, and she said, "We gotta leave." My dad agreed. We went to Germany refugee camp, Erlangen Nuremberg, 18 months, and we came here in November 28th, 1990. But here's where I'm going. That kid grew up, the parents built a good business. The kid knew the parents had to give the business eventually to the kid. And the kid's like, "Listen, you guys better take care of my business, because it's mine." Do you understand what I'm saying? So it was almost like an entitled kid-

• 39:46Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 39:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Because they only had one kid.

• 39:48Speaker 05

  Right.

• 39:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you know that's the reason why I don't believe you should ever have anything less than three kids? I think you should have three kids. Because if it's only one, guess how they feel? They own you. And I do think there's an element of Israel that is the only child in the Middle East.

• 40:04Patrick Bet-David?

  US made that mistake by having the only child in the Middle East. I don't know if this is making sense, the point I'm making.

• 40:08Speaker 05

  No, I, I understand the point.

• 40:10Patrick Bet-David?

  The point I'm trying to say is like, you negotiated this America, you put yourself in this situation, and I think what Trump is trying to do, which maybe none of these other guys previous to him have done, correct me if I'm wrong, this is your world, is when you have an only child, you don't have a choice. You kind of got to figure it out, or else go raise two other kids that match your values and principles, and pin them against each other. Meaning, if, if you, if you see uh, what Trump is doing with Canada, uh, he pushes Mexico, or he pushes China, he pushes Russia, he puts sanctions on Russia, you better not go to the oil deal. The couple, the biggest oil, you know, companies in China that buy oil, they're like, we're suspending it because of sanctions.

• 40:55Patrick Bet-David?

  And then he's able to pin them against each other, but he's trying to find somebody else to pin against Israel, to hold Israel accountable, and I think he's doing that in the way he did with Qatar, when he's like, why, why'd you shoot up that place? You better come out and apologize. I think that phone call was made. Do you think that phone call was made? When he said, you better apologize to Qatar.

• 41:13Speaker 05

  Oh, for sure. No, he was enraged.

• 41:15Patrick Bet-David?

  He was enraged, but the, the, the part where I'm going to is I think they handed him, you have one child in the Middle East, go make your work. And there's a community of people saying, screw Israel, screw this, screw that, you can't, it's the only child. Wait till you build a couple other children, then let them compete against each other.

• 41:32Speaker 05

  I totally get that theory, it's coherent and, and it makes sense, and I think there's some truth to it as well, except after the 1967 war, and then 1973 Yom Kippur War, Nixon was the first to change these policies, he became very close to the Arab world, or closer. And then, obviously, we have had an extremely close relationship with the Saudis for decades. Even after 9/11, when they were by far the country most involved, or certainly with the greatest proximity to the hijackers, George Bush helped the Saudis who were in the country get out, he continued to have a very close, you know, the Bush family has been very close to the Saudis for, for a long time, they're, they're oil people, they, they have a close relationship.

• 42:12Speaker 05

  But one of the things that we did is, and I think this is, when you count how much we do for Israel, this often doesn't get counted, is we don't just give huge amounts of money to Israel, we also prop up a regime in Egypt that, you know, goes back to Anwar Sadat, and then Mubarak, and now Sisi. And we prop up the Jordanian royal family as well to keep not just stability in those countries, but also to keep them at bay and not hostile toward Israel. We do have other allies in the region. And I think one of the things Trump is wanting to do, and I think you're right about this, is he wants to expand the scope of American alliances in the region. But he also wants to foster normalization with Israel.

• 42:52Patrick Bet-David?

  But I think that's fine. So the way I process it is with business. And I'll explain it to you from my perspective. Again, push back when I'm given this perspective. I'm very comfortable with it. Is when at the beginning I had an insurance carrier, I'm running an insurance company, I only had one insurance carrier. I didn't have four, I didn't have five. I only had one. And the one that I had was AIG, American General. And I'm coming up, I'm a newer company. They tell me what they want to do. I can't push back.

• 43:22Speaker 05

  You have no leverage.

• 43:23Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't have any other carriers. So then I go get a third, a fourth, a fifth, a sixth, a seventh, finally it normalizes where the negotiation is even. But guess what? I never wanted to lose them because they've been a decent ally to me and we both needed each other when we got started. I think that's the right way of diplomacy and what he's doing. I think for him to sit there and say, because if I sit there and I think about, you have the best intel, I want access to that intel. Nobody else does a good enough of a job as intel as you in the Middle East. I think that's very valuable to me. How can I use that intel? Now, don't get me wrong, when the argument comes back around and it's, your number one is Epstein. You know what my number one is? What do you think my number one is?

• 44:07Speaker 05

  What is your number one?

• 44:08Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think my number one is? I want you to take a wild guess.

• 44:37Speaker 01

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• 45:09Speaker 05

  I'm at a loss, so don't tell me.

• 45:10Patrick Bet-David?

  It's Epstein.

• 45:11Speaker 05

  Oh, and so we're in agreement. I thought that, yeah.

• 45:13Patrick Bet-David?

  No, it seems like my number one.

• 45:14Speaker 05

  All right, so we have bingo on that.

• 45:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Because I do believe they've been using blackmail to get information and that info was being sent to Israel. I do believe all of that stuff happened.

• 45:23Speaker 05

  But this is what I'm saying. It's like, if you take this idealistic view of Israel, they give us all this intel, they're like incredibly, you make a better argument. Thing is that the Israelis don't have any sense of loyalty to the United States. The intel they pass to us is often shit. It's deceitful. It's manipulated to get us to do what they want. It's filled with falsehoods. And this is the stuff, I'm not saying just the Israelis do. This is not uniquely evil. This is how the intel world operates. We try and manipulate other countries by saying, oh, look what we have here. You know, it's what the Steele dossier was about, right? That's part of that world is deliberate disinformation and lying. The Israelis aren't, the Israelis care about Israel. They are not loyal to the United States, which is, which is fine, which is, no, but...

• 46:05Patrick Bet-David?

  We are America first.

• 46:08Speaker 05

  We should be.

• 46:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 46:09Speaker 05

  But I think there's a lot more unnatural loyalty to Israel than certainly Israel has to us. And I think it's important not to overlook the reality that many of the most important people in the United States, the people who wield the greatest power, the people who have the most money, the people who are most indispensable to many power centers are people who have at least as much loyalty to Israel as to the United States, if not more so. You can't ignore that as part of the relationship. There's a manipulative aspect to it.

• 46:37Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't disagree. I don't, I don't...

• 46:38Speaker 05

  No, I know, I'm not, I'm just, I'm just saying that has to be part of the formula.

• 46:41Patrick Bet-David?

  But where I'm going with this is, I, so I'm sitting there and I'm watching all the criticism that Trump is getting, but I'm also watching what he's doing behind the scenes. I'm also seeing how he's trying to put Netanyahu in his place. And I also see that Netanyahu thinks he can do anything he wants to do with America. Probably he could have done with other presidents in the past, but he's having a hard time with this one guy that's coming in. And this one guy that's coming in is a little bit tougher candidate for him because he has a thing that none of the guys previous to him had. He is so unpredictable and he can't control them.

• 47:19Speaker 05

  Which is why I think above all else, the establishment was so, had such animosity toward Trump. Exactly what you just said, he's unpredictable.

• 47:27Patrick Bet-David?

  And I love that.

• 47:27Speaker 05

  And what the establishment wants is Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris, people who just are going to be very controlled. Let me quickly add though, on the one hand, I understand what you're saying. And of course, there has been these stories leaked that, oh, there's this tension between Netanyahu and Trump. But if you look at the actual behavior, you know, Trump in 2024, he went and spoke before this organization when Miriam Edelson, who's his biggest donor.

• 47:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Adam Milian.

• 47:55Speaker 05

  Elon Musk. Yeah, and Trump said, you know, not only we're going to make US great again, and we're going to make Israel great again. That was part of his promise. He also talked about how in his first term, the people who visited him most were Sheldon and Miriam Edelson.

• 48:09Patrick Bet-David?

  He said that in a speech at.

• 48:11Speaker 05

  Before, I think it was the Republican Jewish Coalition.

• 48:14Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I think he said that in a different, but I think he said it at, I don't know where it was, but it was, I remember the speech that he would call, he would come and say, you realize I'm the president, I'm coming to the White House, what are you talking about?

• 48:25Speaker 05

  And then he would come and he would say, you know, these are American citizens, like, right? Scare quotes, and they would come in and they would only want stuff for Israel. That's what Trump said.

• 48:34Patrick Bet-David?

  You're right, that's the speech, you're right.

• 48:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes.

• 48:37Speaker 05

  And Trump said that they would come in and they would say, I want this for Israel, and Trump would give it to them. And then like a week later, they'd call back and they're, now I want this. And he'd be like, give me a couple of weeks, I'll do more for Israel, but I just can't. But he talked about how much he served Israel throughout his, and you know, I think one of the things that is important to remember is that when Trump was running in 2024, he needed to win to stay out of prison. Had Trump not won that 2024 election, he would be in prison for life. And he was willing to do whatever he had to, the way most people would, and one of the people he needed most was Miriam Edelson. And not just her, you know, Bill Ackman and lots of other big, big donors who care most about Israel. I do think Netanyahu understands, like, the White House released that humiliating picture

• 49:19Speaker 05

  of Netanyahu, holding the phone with his, like, while Trump was holding the phone, Netanyahu was on the phone with the Emir of Qatar, reading a script to an apology, right, like, a deliberate attempt to show what the dynamic in the relationship really is.

• 49:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you think that was an act, or do you think he really had to call Qatar and say what he said?

• 49:37Speaker 05

  When I see the United States, or the Trump administration, cutting off aid to Israel when they do things that we don't want, then I will, yeah, I mean, look at that picture. I mean, look at that picture.

• 49:49Patrick Bet-David?

  You think that's an act, though? Do you, do you think, do you really think, in that position, who had leverage?

• 49:55Speaker 05

  I think, this is the thing, this is what I think has changed, is that I think Trump loves, I mean, if you think about Trump, and what he loves most, even the aesthetic of, like, the Saudi, you know, there's, like, flamboyant opulence, right? I think Trump loves Qatar, the Emirates, and Saudis, genuinely, at least as much as he loves Israel. In fact, I think he's infinitely more comfortable in Dubai than he is in Jerusalem.

• 50:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Is that a bad thing?

• 50:22Speaker 05

  No, no, it's a good thing. Anything that places Israel more in its place, in its proper place, is a good thing to me. These are terrible countries, I mean, these are hardcore, you know, savage dictatorship, but I'm not, I don't think the United States should, should go around the world trying to pick and choose.

• 50:36Patrick Bet-David?

  Who is more pro-America, you think, between those three? Who do you think is more pro-America and more, an ally, between those three names you said?

• 50:44Speaker 05

  Probably the Emiratis.

• 50:46Patrick Bet-David?

  And then?

• 50:47Speaker 05

  The Saudis.

• 50:48Patrick Bet-David?

  You put Israel last.

• 50:49Speaker 05

  Oh, you mean in terms of, like...

• 50:50Patrick Bet-David?

  Ally towards US, like, who between those three, Emiratis, you know, Saudis, Israel, who do you put most?

• 50:58Speaker 05

  It's all transactional at the end of the day, right? None of them have loyalty to the US.

• 51:02Patrick Bet-David?

  Who do you trust more, though? Who do you trust more, that at the end of the day, if their back's against the wall, they're gonna side with us?

• 51:08Speaker 05

  I think the minute it's in any of their interests to go to China.

• 51:13Patrick Bet-David?

  You gotta put one above the other Glenn, you're not a fearless guy.

• 51:16Speaker 05

  No, I'm not trying to evade the question. I don't think it's.

• 51:19Patrick Bet-David?

  I mean, you're not a fearful guy.

• 51:20Speaker 05

  I don't think it's Israel, if that's what you're trying to put me to say.

• 51:23Patrick Bet-David?

  So who do you think it is though? Who do you think is at the top?

• 51:25Speaker 05

  I think probably within the DNA of all these countries, the most pro-US sentiment is with the Saudis. That's been a deeper, longer.

• 51:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Why do you think?

• 51:35Speaker 05

  Just because the relationship between the two is so critical and the Saudis really need the United States to stay in power.

• 51:42Patrick Bet-David?

  Perfect. So who needs US the least between those three?

• 51:46Speaker 05

  So you're saying Israel, Emirati, not Qatar?

• 51:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Put Qatar there as well. Who do you think needs US the least?

• 51:54Speaker 05

  I think right now Israel needs the US the most.

• 51:58Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree.

• 51:59Speaker 05

  That I think is true.

• 51:59Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree.

• 52:00Speaker 05

  No, that I agree.

• 52:01Patrick Bet-David?

  But who needs it the least?

• 52:05Speaker 05

  I mean, it could be at this point, you know, those oil, all three oil companies have China, have India, have other countries they could deal with.

• 52:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you not think Trump knows that leverage? If the guy, the king of leverage of presidents we've ever had is not George Bush, is not Obama, is not senior, it's not maybe senior because he had some experience on the CIA side. It's probably not Reagan. This guy understands leverage.

• 52:32Speaker 05

  Yes, but, yes, and there is leverage of the American president when it comes to Israel, for sure, and I think Trump does know that. At the same time, you think that any president, including Trump, could put Israel in its place, could cut Israel off in any meaningful way, could threaten Israel without repercussions?

• 52:48Patrick Bet-David?

  No, no, no.

• 52:49Speaker 05

  He would be destroyed.

• 52:50Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't, I don't, I don't, it's the same way I think if you run for president as a hundred percent anti-Israel, I don't think that's the wise move.

• 53:00Speaker 05

  I'm not saying, no, no, no, forget about the elections. Trump doesn't care about the elections, presumably he's done, right? In 2020, presumably.

• 53:06Patrick Bet-David?

  Do I think Israel, ask the question again, do I think Israel?

• 53:10Speaker 05

  No, no, let's, let's say Trump really put the genuine clamps down on Israel, like withheld military aid, withheld economic aid, didn't protect them at the UN the way we've been doing any of the things we do with Israel because he's angry at Netanyahu, punishing Netanyahu. The hell that would rain down on Donald Trump from all of these power centers that control media, that control politics, that control Wall Street, that control Silicon Valley would be immense, would be a shitstorm of the highest proportions.

• 53:39Patrick Bet-David?

  I see it in a different way. And the way I see it is the following. What else can you do to this guy at this point? What else? Media? What are you gonna, you gonna bring up Karen McDougal? What are you gonna bring up? You gonna bring up Stormy? What are you gonna bring up with him? You gonna bring up a Trump mistake? You gonna bring up Trump bankruptcies? You gonna bring up the mugshot? What else are you gonna do to this guy?

• 53:59Speaker 05

  We've had presidents who had their heads blown off.

• 54:01Patrick Bet-David?

  I know. And where I'm going with, they've tried to do the same thing too. What I'm trying to say is the following. I think there's a difference between the notion of, you know, like for example, we're gonna do funny skit for one of our channels and say, you know, we'd like to thank our sponsors today. We believe we're the only company in the world that's gotten sponsored from Qatar as well as Israel.

• 54:23Speaker 05

  Congratulations.

• 54:24Patrick Bet-David?

  We wanted, we wanted to kind of do that to say, hey, thank you Qatar for the $7,000 and thank you Israel. AIPAC, we are thankful for you, some of you guys. But the part is, there is the noise of social media. They're funded by Qatar. They're funded by Israel. They're funded by, okay. Set all, that was one of the main reasons why I stopped taking sponsorship money. I just wanted everybody to know, we're just gonna drive our own business. Now, would I come back and take money from some businesses that I support and I have equity in? Yes, because I have equity in the company. But we're like, nothing. Rob, how long ago was it we, we took sponsorship money from it? What would you say that timeline is?

• 55:01Speaker 05

  At least two years, I would think.

• 55:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. I think it's exactly right around the October 7th. I don't want any more money to be given to us, right? But there is the noise that's like, Israel controls Trump. I don't think that's the case. I think the way I see it is, he truly knows who Israel is. He knows Israel's the only child. And he knows, you know, Trump had five kids. And he knows how to steer the pot. I mean, once I'm Don Jr.'s in his mid to late 30s, And they ask him, they say, so you know, you know, you must be really proud of Don and your kids. He says, well, we'll see. I mean, he's still young. He's my baby and we'll see how he's gonna do, but still young. Well, hopefully, he, he likes that. He likes the, we'll see what they're gonna do. We'll see, you know, and then he want,

• 55:44Patrick Bet-David?

  yeah, you know what? They're great allies. They're this, but then we'll see. But then, so I think he's playing the game of pinning people against each other to get the best results and the best deals for himself, because that's what you do in real estate.

• 55:57Speaker 05

  I, I, I, I get it, but at the same time, and I think if you would talk to anybody in Washington, which I know you do, and you're, you know, a very kind of pragmatic businessman type of person who looks at things in terms of leverage and power, you cannot underestimate the power of the Israel lobby. And the power of the Israel lobby is not, I know, I'm not saying you don't, but it's not, their power is not, oh, we run some negative ads against you. That's not their power. They destroy people. They, they, you know, Trump has not just himself, who he cares about a lot, but his family, his friends, his associate, his business interests. You know, the, the, after the Jews went through the Holocaust, they see everything in an existential way.

• 56:38Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree.

• 56:39Speaker 05

  And

• 56:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you blame him, by the way?

• 56:40Speaker 05

  No. I mean, I, I grew up, you know, invested in that. I under, I, you know, I grew up in a, in a very Jewish community, Jewish family.

• 56:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Would you consider them the most paranoid community in the world?

• 56:51Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 56:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Yes, I agree.

• 56:52Speaker 05

  Yes. Um, which I don't necessarily think is, you know, the Holocaust, we're, we're 80 years out of the Holocaust. A lot has changed since then, but you know, victimhood mentality is something that stays with you. It is a victimhood mentality. And, and people get a lot of ego benefits from victimhood. It's the currency in our culture.

• 57:10Patrick Bet-David?

  You're so funny.

• 57:12Speaker 05

  It's true. It's true. But yes, uh, they, so that is very much part of the Israel and the Jewish mindset, whether for, you know, psychological reasons, valid reasons, uh, pragmatic reasons, tactical ones, whatever.

• 57:28Speaker 05

  But for that reason, they don't fuck around like this is they're not a joke. And anyone who understands anything about them understands that they are not to be trifled with.

• 57:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, and you know, it's so funny. You know what I just Googled Andy Grove? Who is I don't know if you know Andy Grove is Andy Grove is just pull up his Wikipedia. He it just I want to read him who he is. He is known as Hungarian American businessman engineer who served as the CEO of Intel Corporation. He escaped the Hungarian People Republic during 1956 revolution at the age of 20. He is known as the greatest CEO in that era. Everybody wanted to duplicate this guy. He died almost 10 years ago. Uh huh. Time Magazine 1997 called him the time man of the year. Uh, he wrote a book called Only the Paranoid Survive. And I just asked Chad GPT was he Jewish? He is a Jewish family from Hungary. He wrote a book.

• 58:18Speaker 05

  I could have told you that without Chad GPT.

• 58:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you go to only the paranoid survive? Only the paranoid survive book that's Andy Grove, the title, Only the Paranoid Survive. So I I see that because for me, I I I relate to that from the Middle Eastern kid, Christian guy growing up in Iran. Dude, we were very paranoid. We're like, hey, you have no idea what that was 40 years ago, not even 40 years ago, 89, whatever 89 is, right? 36 years ago. So I relate to that. I relate to the paranoid side. But I also relate that America uh uh relate to America's making a mistake, having an only child in the Middle East. And I think Trump's trying to get three or four kids to pin them all against each other. And that's how he's going to keep him honest. And I love that strategy. I absolutely love that strategy until he had that.

• 59:07Patrick Bet-David?

  He can't fully go like this on Israel. The moment he had that, he's like boom, boom, boom, boom. And I think it's still Israel is the favorite child. It's still that's the case. But the favorite child is kind of like, whoa, what's going on? I think people are maybe realizing, you know, I'm starting to get a lot of papow lately.

• 59:25Speaker 05

  I'm saying. I hope you're right. I hope you're right. I hope you're right. I I want to believe that too. I understand what you're saying. I see the same things. I'll believe it when I I'll believe it when the US actually takes concrete steps, not leaks to Axios or the Politico. You know that there's tension between Trump and Netanyahu. There was a lot of that around the the negotiations over Iran, and I think that ended up being a ruse.

• 59:48Patrick Bet-David?

  You don't think there's tension between the two?

• 59:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm sure there's, there was tension between Obama and Netanyahu. And one of the last things Obama did on the way out is sign a $40 billion aid deal to guarantee Israel $3.8 billion automatically every year from the US Treasury on top of whatever.

• 1:00:02Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't think Obama's Trump, though.

• 1:00:04Speaker 05

  I, I, but.

• 1:00:04Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't think Obama's Trump. I think the difference is, you know, I think Trump is a boss of bosses. I think Obama's a great speaker and a great community organizer and a great politician. I don't, Obama, nobody looks at Obama and says he's a boss. Nobody. There's a difference mentality here. And again, by the way, I could fully be wrong because of who comes after Trump.

• 1:00:27Speaker 05

  But, but, but also just not to defend Obama, since this is the last thing I, person I want to defend. But one of the things he did on his way out, and you know, he's on his way out, but okay, was he did sign that, that $40 billion deal, which is still in the plaque, this memory and understanding with Israel, you know, $3.8 billion every year automatically on top of the 20, 25, 30 billion we give them every time they want to start a war. Plus the money we give to Egypt and Jordan, which is mostly for Israel, all the other expenses. Obama did that. But then also on the way out, there was a Security Council resolution to condemn Israel for its occupation of the West Bank, which the UN wanted to declare illegal. The US has always vetoed any anti-Israel resolution. Obama refused to use his veto power, didn't vote for it, but abstained. And that's what allowed the resolution in the Security Council to pass. So that was a pretty.

• 1:01:10Patrick Bet-David?

  I have an opinion on that, though. My opinion on that is Obama never liked Israel. His middle name is Hussein. Obama's never been an Israel fan. Trump has been in business with Jews his entire life in New York. Trump understands Jews better than Obama understands Jews. Obama hates Jews. Not hates Jews. Obama's not a, let me use a different phrase. Israel is not in the top 20 of his favorite countries in the world. Obama. I don't think Obama wakes up in the morning saying, oh my God, I love the people in Israel. I love what that country stands for.

• 1:01:43Speaker 05

  No, but, but the money flowed, the money flowed under Obama and the weapons flowed over under Obama.

• 1:01:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Don't get, don't get, you said something very powerful. You said something very powerful at the beginning of it that we don't know all the conversations. You said something about the fact that, you know, when you were on the. Inside trying to help Snowden get pardon and then you you you talked about the camp that came out and said you know the McConnells and you know all these other guys saying hey if you do we're gonna make sure we continue this so who knows why he did that because what threats he had

• 1:02:15Speaker 05

  but that's my point I think Trump if Trump were to take meaningful steps against Israel I think the amount of threats and punishments and attacks that would be unleashed would be almost impossible to overstate and I understand what you're saying look they've thrown everything at Trump not from the Israel lobby

• 1:02:39Patrick Bet-David?

  yeah but I don't think I don't think you do I don't think he's trying to I don't think what you think is success is the same thing as what Trump thinks is success

• 1:02:48Speaker 05

  what is success

• 1:02:49Patrick Bet-David?

  in my opinion it's making sure Israel's no longer the only child in the Middle East

• 1:02:56Speaker 05

  but toward what end

• 1:02:57Patrick Bet-David?

  well towards having a couple other alternatives that get along

• 1:03:01Speaker 05

  so that we can reduce age so that we don't have to give them all the weapons we don't have to defend them all the time

• 1:03:05Patrick Bet-David?

  so we can steer a little bit of competition and little bit of a you know like for example you say that the money okay let me go back to the business side as well when I'm say you're writing fifty million dollars of insurance every year okay and you have this one carrier that has okay products not the best products but they have a very good reputation of marketplace and you don't want the marketplace to say Patrick bid David lost contract with AIG why did he lose contract let me investigate it right so guess what you give that company two million dollars of business what's two million dollars of business nothing but you give it to them for them to be happy with the quality that's called strategy that's called

• 1:03:43Speaker 05

  but what what do we need Israel for the Saudis the Emiratis the Qataris the Bahrainis the Jordanians they would happily sell our oil to their oil to us

• 1:03:53Patrick Bet-David?

  I know it's not just that buddy

• 1:03:54Speaker 05

  what else what else why do we need Israel

• 1:03:56Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't I think I think you need him for the intel to me it's purely the intel

• 1:04:00Speaker 05

  intel about whom

• 1:04:01Patrick Bet-David?

  are you kidding me who is their neighbor who are they right next to where are they in the middle of I think there's a benefit to having a Good relationship with Israel. I think there's a benefit of having a good relationship with Qatar. I think there's a benefit with having a good relation with Saudi. I think there's a benefit with having a good relation with those guys.

• 1:04:17Speaker 05

  I think the relationship with Israel on the net is more harmful to the United States than it is beneficial. We have, you know, the one thing I know, you know, I spent three years of my life reading through it, is the capacity of the US intelligence agency, the NSA, how much EIs and yours we have on every part of the world. We don't need Israel to spy on us for us, spy on us.

• 1:04:37Patrick Bet-David?

  How do we have it in the Middle East?

• 1:04:38Speaker 05

  We have the gigantic, we, again, we, we, we prop up the Egyptian and the Jordanians. They do whatever we tell us. We, we have the gigantic middle, military base in the middle of Qatar.

• 1:04:48Patrick Bet-David?

  You think they're as effective as Mossad?

• 1:04:50Speaker 05

  I don't, I don't think that the Mossad, the Mossad isn't there to pass us good information. The Mossad is there to give us information it wants us to have to provoke actions that are favorable to Israel.

• 1:05:01Patrick Bet-David?

  By the way, I don't disagree that they're going to give us the best information because they're going to be Israel first. I fully believe that Israel is Israel first. But Israel sits there and says, we kind of need America to be able to stay here and do our things. And I think that leverage can be used.

• 1:05:13Speaker 05

  It can be, but there's also a hugely powerful Israel lobby that I think has control and a stranglehold over American politics. And I hope you're right that Trump is trying to get out of it.

• 1:05:21Patrick Bet-David?

  You know what the problem is?

• 1:05:22Speaker 05

  I hope you're right. I really do.

• 1:05:23Patrick Bet-David?

  You know, you know what the problem is? Here's what the problem is. And by the way, I, I, I can't tell you how much I appreciate the fact that you can have this conversation. And I don't even know if we're disagreeing, by the way. I don't even know if the disagreement is that I'm taking a position, you're taking a position. Where I'm going long-term is the idea of, no, they're the enemy, they're this, they're that, and blah, blah. And I can't change my position because of this. And then, no, they're because of this, without Israel, we can't do this, we have to do this. And, no, how about let's kind of go here a little bit? By the way, in my opinion, you know what's the hardest place to be? You know what's the toughest place to be? Not here or here. You're here, you have friends.

• 1:06:08Patrick Bet-David?

  If you're here, you have friends and allies. You ain't got friends when you're here.

• 1:06:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:06:14Patrick Bet-David?

  And when you're trying to be here, they're like, well, let me tell you, he's on that side. No, no, well, let me tell you, he's on this side. I was a kid growing up, you know what they used to tell me? My mother said, would say, he's a Bet David, he's an Assyrian. And my father said, would say, he's a Bohusian, he's an Armenian. I'm like, screw both of you. The only ones I care about is my mom, my dad, my sister. I don't play this politics stuff. I'm here. And it took a couple decades for people to realize, well, he was kind of fair. You know, he was kind of fair. So I think, I think-

• 1:06:39Speaker 05

  Well, to be clear, like, if you talk about it morally and ethically, I do think what Israel has done in Gaza is one of the worst crimes, certainly of this century. So I don't want to pretend that I'm nuanced about that. However, I think when we're talking about US policy toward other countries, toward in the region, you have to be analytical about it. You, it's not driven by, you know, self-righteous moralism. It's driven by-

• 1:07:00Patrick Bet-David?

  This is better for content, by the way, if you think about it.

• 1:07:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:03Patrick Bet-David?

  This is very effective for content. This is not.

• 1:07:06Speaker 05

  No, exactly, exactly. If you and I were to scream at each other about Israel and its morality in Gaza, it would, you know, you, you would, oh, look, they got into the screaming match. But I think this is much more substantive, much more important, much more-

• 1:07:18Patrick Bet-David?

  I trust that he's doing business. I trust he's looking at this as a business deal. And the, and the only thing is, when, when I sold my, and I hope he does this, you know, when you leave and you're trying to put certain rules and guidelines in place to make sure some of this stuff doesn't repeat itself, we're going to see if he's going to be able to pull that off. Because that's the real trick.

• 1:07:40Speaker 05

  And that's why I say, I hope you're right. But at the end of the day, I also think, among all the other things Trump's weighing, and I think your analysis of his view of the Middle East is exactly right, he's also weighing, and he'd be stupid not to, the things that the pro-Israel lobby could do to him and to things he cares about if he were really to take action against Israel. That has to be in his mind. He'd be crazy not to be. You can say, oh, he's been through everything. Trump is a, Trump is self-interested. He's, he's human. And he has, you know- Kids and their businesses and his grandkids and things he cares about and anyone who cares about things is vulnerable.

• 1:08:21Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I, I, and by the way, I think anybody who cares about anything is also better for society.

• 1:08:29Speaker 05

  For sure.

• 1:08:30Patrick Bet-David?

  I think anybody who has nothing to lose is horrible for society.

• 1:08:35Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:08:35Patrick Bet-David?

  When you, when you have kids, like I tell my kids, man, be friends with other kids who have things to lose. You want to befriend kids who have nothing, and let me tell you, when I was 16 years old, I probably wasn't the best kid to be friends with.

• 1:08:45Speaker 05

  Right, right.

• 1:08:46Patrick Bet-David?

  Because my, I, I was in a very bad place.

• 1:08:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:08:49Patrick Bet-David?

  I, I had, I had nothing to lose.

• 1:08:50Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 1:08:50Patrick Bet-David?

  So I understood a lot of parents of my friends that would say, don't befriend Patrick because I had nothing to lose.

• 1:08:54Speaker 05

  Right.

• 1:08:54Patrick Bet-David?

  I was in a reckless place. I joined the army, that saved me. Then I got out, I had dreams, I had a vision, then I had something to lose, then I stayed locked in. I stopped hanging out with the friends that were going to destroy my life, some of them went to jail, some of them died, some of them went away, like literally deported, and somehow I made it. But because I think it is good to have things to lose. I think it is good to have, that's why God created a certain situation when we have kids, you look at the world in a different way. I think that's healthy.

• 1:09:20Speaker 05

  Totally.

• 1:09:21Patrick Bet-David?

  I actually think that's healthy versus the other side.

• 1:09:23Speaker 05

  Don't agree.

• 1:09:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so let's go back to it. Number one is Epstein. We're on the same page. Ukraine, US, Israel, what's four and five? That you would like to see a whistleblower come, by the way, what a long episode, I don't even know how the hell you're going to cut this clip.

• 1:09:33Speaker 05

  Good long.

• 1:09:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Because we stay on this one topic. So what would you say four and five is?

• 1:09:38Speaker 05

  You get into Israel and it's very hard to get out of it. Uh, but we're out of it now. I, I would love to see a whistleblower inside the CIA to come forward and, and talk about the things that agency in particular is doing.

• 1:09:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:09:52Speaker 05

  Um, and then obviously I would love another NSA whistleblower as well because I think that spying, you know, Snowden was, what is it, 12 years ago now? I want to know who they're spying on, how they're using that spying, whether there's, I know they're spying domestically, but exactly on whom.

• 1:10:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:10:06Speaker 05

  Hi, everyone, I'm Glenn Greenwald. I am a journalist who covers a lot of issues, including civil liberties and foreign policy and the US security state and domestic politics and Brazil. A lot of, also a lot of people don't know, but I know literally everything about tennis, everything, so you can ask me about that as well. And anyone who wants to ask me questions or connect with me, you can do so on Minnet. I have a profile there and I would love to hear from you.

• 1:10:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Interventionist and non-interventionist, okay? The argument for both sides, right? When you think about, hey, I'm a interventionist, I'm a non-interventionist. What is the benefit of either? Like, if you were to say, this is why people become interventionist, this is why they make the argument of non-interventionist, what would you say it is?

• 1:10:51Speaker 05

  I'm, to be perfectly honest, after everything I've lived through, and I guess my adult child, you know, my adult life in terms of political perception is formed by 9/11 and its aftermath, it's very hard for me to make a case for interventionism, either from the perspective of benefiting the United States or benefiting the countries in which we're intervening. I think everybody ends off worse, except for a tiny little sliver of military-industrial complex, the US intelligence community, the government, global elites, I think those who benefits from this constant globalistic effort to try and interfere in the world, intervene in the world. I could make a lot of arguments for why. I think Venezuela is a good case now, where, you know, those wars being sold on all the

• 1:11:32Speaker 05

  standard grounds, oh, Maduro is uniquely evil, and, you know, he's gonna pass WMD to the United States and kill us, but not WMD, but drugs. You know, it's all the same rationale, and then, you know, of course, we could go in and take out Maduro, it wouldn't be that hard if we want to fight a war. We did it in Panama, it would be harder than that, but we could still do it, of course, kill thousands of Venezuelans. And then, at the end of the day, we're gonna impose this puppet regime, we're gonna be responsible for it, we're gonna fund it, we're gonna fund all the overflow of instability and civil war and migration problems that are gonna happen all throughout the region, including probably for the United States. And so, you know, you can say, ah, look, we got rid of Saddam, and we're so happy because he was a bad guy, which he is, but look at all the harm it did for the United States.

• 1:12:16Speaker 05

  Oh, we got rid of Maduro, no one thinks he's a good guy, but all the problems that it's gonna get going. And, you know, at the end of the day, I think the main reason why Trump won, and one of the things that I think Zohar Mandani did that was so good, that I knew early on he was gonna be a very effective candidate before people knew, is after Trump won, he went out into the street, he went into the neighborhoods where there was the biggest swing toward Trump in New York. You know, New York had mostly, every community swung toward Trump, as opposed to prior elections. And they were, these were working-class, multiracial

• 1:12:48Speaker 00

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• 1:13:43Speaker 05

  ... and all he did was go and interview people on camera and say, who did you vote for Trump? Why? And they would say, I'm really, you know, our communities are falling apart and I'm sick of how much money we're sending to Ukraine, into Israel, into all these wars. Also, immigration was a big deal. Why are these people coming to the country illegally, getting more than our neighborhood? And she shaped this campaign around that. And that, I think, was the biggest appeal of Donald Trump was, our elite class cares about everything except you and your family and your community. We spend money on all these other globalistic ventures, on all these wars and all these other countries that have nothing to do with your lives. We should instead put America first. We should put Americans first. His speech about, in the inaugural addresses, about the forgotten man. Who is that?

• 1:14:26Speaker 05

  Those are the, you know, working class people in Pennsylvania and Ohio and Wisconsin where everything has been deindustrialized and the cities that are falling apart. And so this interventionism, you know, is a nice word for war, is, I think, one of the things that is most destroying the United States and our future security and our welfare. I just went to Malaysia last month, not a, I mean, a where Trump is now, or was a couple days ago, not a particularly like country, a country that's not particularly known for its great prosperity. You can find prosperity in a lot of other countries. It's a Muslim majority country. You go there to Kuala Lumpur or wherever and you look at the infrastructure, the airports, the road, everything is better than most American cities. Why is that?

• 1:15:06Speaker 05

  Why is a country like Malaysia capable of having, you know, cleaner cities, well, better organized cities? It's not, it's a democracy. I mean, not a perfect democracy, but it's democracy. It's not like, it's not Saudi Arabia. And the reason is, is because we use our resources for everything except what's happening inside of our country and, and our communities and our people. And I think that's the message above all else that resonated for people with Trump. And I want that message to be fully embraced finally. And I think stopping unnecessary intervention is a key way to do that.

• 1:15:37Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. So let me ask you, so you'll hear a lot of times people say, wait, you know, the, so you're saying you're a non-interventionist yourself?

• 1:15:47Speaker 05

  Completely.

• 1:15:48Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay. So, so was George Washington, right? So was Ron Paul. So was-

• 1:15:53Speaker 05

  Thomas Jefferson.

• 1:15:54Patrick Bet-David?

  Thomas Jefferson, a lot of these guys, right? Okay. And at that time, when that was going on, maybe the argument somebody will make is 1776 is different than 2025. Okay. Let me pose this question. How do you, as a non-interventionist, make it while your top five other enemies are all intervening? How do you play offense or defense against them as a non-interventionist?

• 1:16:20Speaker 05

  When was the last war China had? Do you know?

• 1:16:23Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't think they, they have the same wars as we have. I don't think they fight the way you and I fight.

• 1:16:27Speaker 05

  Well, I'm saying like, when was the last time they had a war?

• 1:16:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Five years ago, COVID. I think they started that.

• 1:16:33Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:16:34Patrick Bet-David?

  They intervened. That's intervening.

• 1:16:36Speaker 05

  Okay. I mean, war in its classical sense, in the sense that, I mean, let me just make the point, you can, obviously, COVID is-

• 1:16:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, please.

• 1:16:42Speaker 05

  It was 1979. They had a one-month border war with Vietnam.

• 1:16:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:16:46Speaker 05

  A one-month border war with Vietnam. That was 45 years ago.

• 1:16:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay.

• 1:16:52Speaker 05

  Okay, we fought, you couldn't count how many wars we've had, interventions, wars, invasions, bombings that we've done of many other countries. And you look at China, I only politically, you know, we talked about Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Emiratis in a favorable sense, even though they're as oppressive as anybody, including China. You look at China, they have, their cities are magnificent, they're shocking in terms of their innovation, they're building bridges, their engineering feats, and they release videos saying, this is what happens when you don't spend $2 billion trying to occupy Afghanistan, and wanted to leave and have the Taliban march back in. I'm not saying China, I'm not, it's not a defense of China. I know, I understand China's, China's aggression. But they don't fight wars, they don't occupy countries, they don't do regime change in other countries, they're not overthrowing other countries.

• 1:17:35Speaker 05

  You know, Brazil, where I live, is now, China is the biggest trading partner with Brazil, replacing the United States. The only thing China cares about, if you're in Brazil, and you say Taiwan is an independent country, or Hong Kong could be free, they get angry and will retaliate. Anything else you do, they don't give the slightest shit about what Brazil does, their internal governance, they don't care what kind of government it has, it's not their business.

• 1:17:59Patrick Bet-David?

  How do you know that?

• 1:18:00Speaker 05

  Because I, I, I see China and how it, what it functions, I see what they get angry about and what they don't.

• 1:18:04Patrick Bet-David?

  You think we fully know why they do, you think, you think they buy land all around the world for no reason, you think they're not trying to intervene and protect themselves long-term?

• 1:18:15Speaker 05

  Yes, yes, they are, they're trying to protect themselves, exactly. And, and, and nobody, or basically nobody, is opposed to American wars or intervention designed to protect ourselves. If there's some country that's going to attack us, that's threatening to attack us, we're not trying to, nobody's against going to war with that country, that's a war of self-defense. Everybody's in favor of that. Or a country attacks you, is about to attack you, you go to war. That's not what's happening with these countries that, that we're involved in wars with. Hamas isn't attacking the United States, Russia's not attacking the United States, Maduro's not attacking the United States. These are, these are, these are basically using interventions and wars and bombing campaigns as a tool to achieve some other end. And...

• 1:19:02Speaker 05

  Eventually, a state in constant war, a warlike state, is going to collapse. History demonstrates that. You can benefit for a while. There's obviously benefits.

• 1:19:13Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree there as well. I'm not like, for example, I'm not for 780 military bases, or whatever the numbers we have right. I don't know what the number is right now, Rob, if you want to pull it up. I'm not for all of that. But I think to be 100% non-interventionist, while other countries are, the only way I would agree with 100% interventionist, Glenn is 750 now, the only way I would agree with interventionist is if we produce everything, we don't buy from anyone, we don't sell to anyone, and it's 100% internally, and nobody relies on us, and we don't rely on anybody.

• 1:19:53Speaker 05

  But that, okay, but that's, like, you say to people, why are we, why do we care about how Taiwan is governed? Like, why do we care about the extent of...

• 1:20:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Because we need the chips from them.

• 1:20:02Speaker 05

  Okay, right.

• 1:20:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Are you kidding? Like, desperately, we need the chips.

• 1:20:05Speaker 05

  Precisely.

• 1:20:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:06Speaker 05

  Which is, which is a good reason why Taiwan is dear strategically important to us.

• 1:20:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Right.

• 1:20:11Speaker 05

  You're going to tell me we don't have, the United States of America, with Silicon Valley, with our manufacturing capabilities, we don't have the ability to produce chips ourselves? We just haven't made it a priority.

• 1:20:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Well, Trump started, he started with the 50-50 deal. He tried to negotiate with Taiwan, and they said, "No."

• 1:20:26Speaker 05

  There's, there's some Biden, there's some Biden and Trump.

• 1:20:28Patrick Bet-David?

  And then he said, "If you don't, then we're going to build all here."

• 1:20:29Speaker 05

  Exactly. So, let's assume, though, that we are able to do that, which of course, we should do. Why do we rely on Taiwan for processing chips? It makes no sense. Why do we have a supply chain that goes through China? Why can't we have that for ourselves? But let's assume we are no longer dependent on Taiwan for these chips. We have American factories, American workers, producing American chips, as we should with our ingenuity and technological know-how and our resources. Once that happens, should we go to war with China over Taiwan?

• 1:21:01Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I don't think, I don't think you can have an ally without having an enemy. I don't think you can have an enemy without having an ally. I think it's impossible. I think whenever you have allies, you have enemies. Because somebody's not happy with that person, and now that you create an alliance with that person, the other person's an enemy of yours, so you have to have a, you automatically put yourself in a position to intervene.

• 1:21:23Speaker 05

  Which is where you get back to Washington Jefferson, who warned against things like enduring alliances. You know, have, have no animosity toward other countries, enduring animosities, but also no enduring alliances. That we take care of our own country, we trade with other countries, we have good relationships with other countries, but we don't have these enduring alliances where their enemies become our own.

• 1:21:41Patrick Bet-David?

  But it's, listen, you know, it's in too deep, buddy. Glenn, we are so in too deep that for, for us to want to now be non-interventionist, it is so too late to do it because of what our history is and what we've done. You would need to, you would need to be an intervention, a non-interventionist, for a hundred years, wait every, wait till everybody else dies off to forget that we used to intervene and everything, and then we're true interventionist. To become an interventionist is like, it's such a, you know what it's like, it's,

• 1:22:15Patrick Bet-David?

  it's like, you know, you know, Miss Venezuela, what, what is your dream? I want to see world peace. Oh my God.

• 1:22:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Miss South Carolina, what would you like? That one was fully confused. I don't even know if she knows what she said herself, Miss South Carolina, 20 years ago. But, world peace, good luck.

• 1:22:36Speaker 05

  It's not that, but it's not like our entire history has been one of interventionism. It was essentially, obviously, World War II was a war that everybody in the United States, for the most part, not everybody, but agreed was a just war. But then after that, that's when the security state got created, that's when Eisenhower warned of the emerging military-industrial complex, and then from there it grew with Vietnam, from there it grew with the Cold War and the Reagan years, and there, and then after 9/11 it grew even further. This is not an inevitability in the American experience. We can, I'm not saying we're gonna, you know, have this Miss Venezuela, oh, I want world peace. That's not real, that's not human relations. But there are a lot of countries that are doing extremely well, that don't have 750 military bases around the world, that don't debate every year,

• 1:23:21Speaker 05

  which of the four countries now should we bomb this year? It is not something that can't be changed. Trump ran on a platform of fraudulently transforming our country in that way.

• 1:23:30Patrick Bet-David?

  But it is truly, probably the toughest thing to accomplish, to do that.

• 1:23:37Speaker 05

  But also, I think the most important. Because as long as we continue to be this country-

• 1:23:40Patrick Bet-David?

  You know what's the toughest to accomplish? You know what's the toughest to accomplish? So, if you ever notice when you ask people where you're from, they say El Salvador. And, you know, like the other day, we're at this restaurant and my wife, "Now, where are you from?" "I'm from El Salvador." "Oh, wow, okay, cool." She says, "Yeah, I know." Most people, when they think about Salvador, they think about gangs and all this stuff, MS-13. I bought my first car by my own money from a MS-13 leader, Mara Sabatrucha, from San Bernardino Valley in LA. But, hey, what's your last name? Gambino. Go ahead, try to clean up that last name of yours. What do you guys do? I'm a pastor. Yeah, we'd like to bring up our next, today, he's gonna read, teach us out of Corinthians.

• 1:24:24Patrick Bet-David?

  Pastor Gambino, hello. You know, I'd like to start off with a prayer. You're a member of that church, you're sitting there saying, "Babe, did he just say the guy's name is Gambino?" "Yeah." "And he's got a strong Italian accent, like a New Yorker?" "Yeah." "Babe, let me Google this guy, babe." "How does this guy..." You're gonna go, "We are so into deep now to do it."

• 1:24:44Speaker 05

  It's a little defeatist, though.

• 1:24:45Patrick Bet-David?

  I didn't say defeatist. I don't mean by defeatist. What I'm saying to you is, I think we can, I think we can work on de-hassling and getting out of the way of a lot of things that's going on. I think we can, I think we have our hands in way too many things, and everyone's business. I think it's like a friend that's trying to solve every one of his friend's marriages. Dude, relax. But if one of the cousins, she's getting beat up by her husband, and she's got black eyes every other week, you see?

• 1:25:15Speaker 05

  You don't think that's why we intervene, though? You don't think, you don't believe we intervene to go help the poor and oppressed peoples of the world be liberated, do you?

• 1:25:22Patrick Bet-David?

  No, I mean, I've had the guy Perkins on a couple of times. You know, he wrote the book called the, um... Economic hitman, right? Uh, John Perkins, I don't know if you read his book.

• 1:25:33Speaker 05

  No.

• 1:25:34Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, he wrote a book called Economic Confessions of an Economic Hitman. You know what he used to do? He used to go to countries, you actually would like talking to this guy. He used to go to countries and he would sit down and he would say, hey, we're gonna come here. We're gonna put a few billion dollars here. We're gonna make it a massive announcement. And it's gonna be great. And we're gonna create jobs. Then after about 10 years, you're not gonna be able to pay it off. We're gonna get some minerals from you or whatever resources we need from you. And you're gonna say nothing. And we're gonna do that. And if you don't, we're gonna kill you. That's what this guy did for a living.

• 1:26:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, that's the reality. This is why, but this is, which is why, this is why nothing drives me more insane. And we just talked about the US close relationship with the Saudis and the Emiratis and the Egyptians. And we know, we don't just embrace dictatorships. We actually sometimes overthrow democratic governments and install dictatorships.

• 1:26:27Patrick Bet-David?

  We did that to Iran.

• 1:26:29Speaker 05

  We did that to Iran. And it's one of the reasons why that country, people in that country hate us. I'm not trying to explain your own country to you, but you know that, I've heard you say that before and you're absolutely right. Lots of, I mean, there's anti-American resentment in Brazil. We did the same thing. We overthrew their government in 1964, put a military dictatorship in place for 21 years. Obviously, when people think of the United States and Brazil, they remember that. It's true. Every, you know, every continent, every country.

• 1:26:52Speaker 05

  And so this is the reality. So the one thing that drives me crazy is when it's time to go to war. Hey, we need to go fight in Ukraine because we wanna come save democracy and fight authoritarianism. That was the, we're gonna go liberate the Iraqi, the Iraqi people. Now in Venezuela, we're gonna go liberate the Venezuelan people. This is, this is why we go interfere in other countries. That's the real politic of it. It's, the pretext is, we're gonna go help and liberate the people of the world. This is fairy tale bullshit. We don't care if a country is dictatorial.

• 1:27:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, I agree. I agree that this is happening, and I'm not for this. I agree. I agree that this is, I had him on a couple of times. I agree. I don't call for it. I don't agree with it, but at the same time, the job of being a journalist, the job of being a businessman, podcaster, the job of being a mother, the job of being a director of CIA, the job of running NSA or president. They all look at the lens and they'll have a different lens on, all have a different lens on.

• 1:27:51Speaker 05

  For sure.

• 1:27:52Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, and each one of them sees nobility in their jobs. And each one of them sees nobility in what they're doing, which by the way, you ought to be proud of the job that you've chosen. Now, this job isn't for everybody. It's not. You know why that job isn't for everybody? You know what I love about the fact that Trump said, "I'm probably not gonna go to heaven no matter what I do."

• 1:28:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, I love that too.

• 1:28:13Patrick Bet-David?

  You know why I love that? I love it because it's honest to me. I love it because it's like, "Look, man, do you know what things I've done? Do you know what things I've... If God allows me in heaven, I'm gonna ask him, 'What were you thinking?'"

• 1:28:27Speaker 05

  Not just as president and his private life and his personal life and his business life. I love Trump for that.

• 1:28:32Patrick Bet-David?

  I love that. I love that because to me, it's a form of honesty.

• 1:28:36Speaker 05

  You know what my favorite Trump thing is? I don't know if you remember this, but when Trump first got elected president, Bill O'Reilly interviewed him as part of the Super Bowl show in 2017. And Bill O'Reilly was pressing him quite aggressively and angrily on his fondness or desire to have better relations with Putin. And Bill O'Reilly said, "What is it with you and Russia? Putin is a killer." And Trump said, "Huh, you think we're so innocent? You don't think we have our killers?" And it's like, Bill O'Reilly's on the air for 30 years, you know, the most rated show on Bill... And he doesn't know this? It's not part of his thinking? You know, if you don't know that, you don't understand anything about the world. If you believe that fairy tale, if that's what shapes your worldview. So, but here's the thing.

• 1:29:17Speaker 05

  If that were helping Americans, if that were redounding to the benefit of the American people, I think you could have a debate about it. The problem is, it's redounding to the benefit, basically, of everybody except the American people. You look at the lives of the American people, you look at their economic security. You just look at the reality of life in the United States. The working class is disappearing, the middle class is disappearing. You can't have a family without both parents working. This is horrible.

• 1:29:45Patrick Bet-David?

  Glenn, Glenn, let's do this. By the way, a quick shout out to Rob, he found that clip, so if you wanna play.

• 1:29:49Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, I love this clip.

• 1:29:50Patrick Bet-David?

  We can come back to this.

• 1:29:52Speaker 06

  I do respect him.

• 1:29:52Speaker 07

  Do you? Why?

• 1:29:54Speaker 06

  Well, I respect a lot of people, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna get along with him. He's a leader of his country. I say it's better to get along with Russia than not. And if Russia helps us in the fight against ISIS, which is a major fight, and Islamic terrorism all over the world.

• 1:30:11Speaker 07

  Right.

• 1:30:11Speaker 06

  Major fight, that's a good thing. Will I get along with him? I have no idea.

• 1:30:15Speaker 07

  He's a killer, though. Putin's a killer.

• 1:30:18Speaker 06

  A lot of killers. You got a lot of killers while you think our country's so innocent? You think our country's so innocent?

• 1:30:25Speaker 07

  I don't know of any government leaders that are killers.

• 1:30:27Patrick Bet-David?

  Pause it right there. But going back to what you said, you said something very interesting. You said, you know, you know, most of these things that we do, it doesn't benefit the American people. It benefits all the other people, right? And I said, you can't say something like that. And he said, look what's going on with middle America, right? Middle, I think you were going talking about how financially where we are right now.

• 1:30:48Patrick Bet-David?

  I can take this problem and link it to this, but maybe there's no correlation between this and this. I would link the middle class to, listen, there's a website called 1971. I am sure you've seen this, where everything of American problems links back to 1971 economically. Single mothers, finances, middle America collapsing, the debt market all of a sudden skyrockets, us no longer building three-bedroom homes. All we want to build is four-bedroom homes. We no longer build small starter homes. All of these things that you go through, what happened? We got off the gold standard. We, we, we, we are reckless in our debt today.

• 1:31:30Patrick Bet-David?

  All across, not only individuals, companies, stock market, the government. So if you link those two, I get that. Why did we get off the gold standard? I mean, obviously, it created a ton of wealth for us, but holy shit, we're in a...

• 1:31:46Speaker 05

  Would we be able to fund our wars without that? Here's, that's the reason...

• 1:31:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Isn't that a good thing, though?

• 1:31:51Speaker 05

  Yes. No, I'm saying, but, but that's part of...

• 1:31:52Patrick Bet-David?

  I know.

• 1:31:53Speaker 05

  But it's a little too monocausal for me, only because there are other countries that have not decimated their working and middle class. And there that are in fact making progress toward bringing people out of poverty and to bring more prosperity for their people. This is not inevitable. These are the byproduct of choices that we're making. And at the end of the day, the only metric, maybe not the only metric, but the primary metric of whether a political class is succeeding or failing, is how much it is benefiting the people whom they're supposed to be serving. It may be idealistic or theoretical, but it's also true. And if you, I mean, you know, I'm American. I've lived here, you know, most of my life. I grew up here. I look at how things were in the seventies and eighties and things are just worse now.

• 1:32:36Speaker 05

  In every way, the country looks worse, like physically it looks worse. Families are worse. Literacy is worse. People are less educated. People have less of an economic future. The idea, I think the idea that you can't raise a family without having two incomes and both parents having to work out of the house is absolutely devastating.

• 1:32:55Patrick Bet-David?

  I agree.

• 1:32:56Speaker 05

  And

• 1:32:56Patrick Bet-David?

  But that's 1971. We got off the gold standard. When we got off the gold standard, we started, hey, trust us.

• 1:33:03Speaker 05

  I'm just saying that's monocausal. I'm saying that we could, even with that, there's a lot more we could be doing better and I think using our resources.

• 1:33:11Patrick Bet-David?

  This is massive, though. This is massive because this opened up the recklessness spending. And we kept saying, hey, don't worry about it. Another bailout, another bailout done. Like, you think we're not gonna be ba- when do you think we're gonna stop bailing out? Do you think the bailing out concept is gonna stop? You, you think this is it with bailing out?

• 1:33:27Speaker 05

  We're bailing out Wall Street, we're subsidizing industry, where, you know, all, and the wars.

• 1:33:31Patrick Bet-David?

  I, I was never for it. I'm like, dude, let them go out of business. That's part of capitalism. But that goes back to this move. Nixon did a lot of things right, but Nixon is the reason why China is as big as it is today. Nixon opened up a lot of stuff. Some could give a lot of credit to that, but we could have gone to a different place. Nixon is, you know, he, he was, I, I don't know if you, I'm sure you read a lot on Nixon.

• 1:33:54Speaker 05

  For sure.

• 1:33:55Patrick Bet-David?

  But to me, Nixon was a complicated character with, with what he did. Yeah. Very complicated character, but, so let me, let me go to, um, Venezuela Maduro, so, uh, what do you think we do? Maduro comes out, I don't know if you have the clip Rob, one of the clips Maduro comes out, "I want peace, peace," and you know, whether he's being sarcastic or not, 90% I'm thinking he's being sarcastic, "Please, please don't do anything, I want peace, I want..." You've seen this clip, I'm assuming, right?

• 1:34:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:24Patrick Bet-David?

  This right here, go ahead Rob.

• 1:34:25Speaker 07

  Not war, not war, not war. Just peace, just peace, just peace, forever, forever, forever, peace forever. No crazy war. No a la guerra loca. No crazy, no crazy war, no crazy war. Please, please, please, just peace, peace forever, peace forever. Victory forever, the peace. Victory forever, the peace. Esto se llama lenguaje tarsaniao.

• 1:35:03Patrick Bet-David?

  I'm gonna pause it. So, you've seen this?

• 1:35:06Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:35:07Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think about it?

• 1:35:08Speaker 05

  I don't think he wants war with the United States, why would he? I, I think, I mean, he's, I mean, he's maybe a little tongue in cheek in terms of how he's saying it, his English is not exactly great, he's reading, but I'm saying, of course he doesn't want war with the United States. Why would he want a war with the United States? He doesn't want the United States bombing and invading Venezuela, would you? Look what happened to Noriega, look what happened to Gaddafi, look what happened to Saddam Hussein. No, no one in their right mind would want that. And the thing is, you know, we were talking before about people in the United States who are inculcated from birth to love Israel, I do, I grew up in this area, you know, there was a huge Cuban community, still is, those people never learned English because they were only here temporarily in their minds because they thought once the United States got rid of Cuba, they were going back. They wanted this government to get rid of Cuba for them.

• 1:35:53Speaker 05

  Marco Rubio emerges out of this, lots of people emerge out of it, they're very focused on the Caribbean and Latin America, they think the United States has to go and fix that region. If you look at fentanyl, which by far is the worst drug entering the United States that kills the most people, it doesn't come from Venezuela. Nobody ever talked about Venezuela as the source of fentanyl, it was China and Mexico. The Trump campaign was talking about bombing the cartels in Mexico, it doesn't come from Venezuela. Cocaine, uh, in some...

• 1:36:21Speaker 05

  Minority sense, I think it's seven or nine percent according to government reports, passes through Venezuela, has to do with Venezuela, but it really comes from Colombia. And Colombia has been governed until a couple of years ago by right-wing governments that were close US allies.

• 1:36:33Patrick Bet-David?

  It's the first liberal president they've had, ever.

• 1:36:35Speaker 05

  Yeah, first left-wing president, yeah. So, I mean, Trump's now saying, oh, it's his fault Colombia's been the source of drugs forever, all that iconography about Pablo Escobar and the Colombians and ever. This is a pretext. This is not, if you want to stop the flow of drugs, you have to close the borders, deal with the Mexican cartels, it has nothing to do with Venezuela, it's the WMD of the war. They want to change Maduro because they want a public government in Venezuela, like they've, you know, but it's not going to be that easy. We've been trying in Cuba for seven decades to bring down that government. We've used all our might militarily, economically, we've suffocated that island like we're suffocating Venezuela. You know, you can go and change the government of Venezuela if you want, but what is Venezuela

• 1:37:20Speaker 05

  doing to the United States? We closed the border, Trump did succeed in doing that, there's no influx, or basically no influx anymore across the southern border, so the argument is not they're sending, you know, drug cartels or immigrants to enter our country. And if you look at everything that has been said about fentanyl, which is what's killing people, it's not cocaine, it's fentanyl, it doesn't come from Venezuela, this is a disconnect. If you want to solve fentanyl, changing the government of Venezuela is irrelevant. And even if you did change the government of Venezuela, do you know the kind of instability you're going to have there? You think the drug cartels are going to disappear? Like I said, we controlled Colombia for decades with our alliance with the right-wing governments, it didn't stop, we helped in a civil war, you can't destroy the flow of drugs, the drug war doesn't work.

• 1:38:03Speaker 05

  What you have to do is, why is there so much demand in the United States for drugs? That is one crucial part of the equation.

• 1:38:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Why is there so much demand?

• 1:38:11Speaker 05

  Why is there, yes. Why in the United States, why do so many Americans get addicted to drugs, use drugs, want drugs? Why is there such a big market in the United States for drugs?

• 1:38:20Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, but I don't think, you know, there's a demand for it, I think you create those customers. How do you think you do it? Oh, so you're gonna you're gonna go back to war on drugs with the US government being involved?

• 1:38:31Speaker 05

  No, the war on drugs is the war on drugs is a failed model and it's what we're that's what they were on Venezuela would be, right? We're gonna use our military, we're bombing drug ships. This does not work. Drugs are too easy to to to smuggle. Drugs are too easy to and the profit is too big to to to destroy it with with military. You have to eliminate the the the demand for it. That's the way to stop the war on drugs.

• 1:38:55Patrick Bet-David?

  So you're saying leave it. You're saying leave Venezuela alone. You're saying let Maduro do whatever he's doing.

• 1:38:59Speaker 05

  I think if you look at the if I were to say, here's a list of the top 50 things that are creating problems for American, the American people in their lives. I don't put Venezuela on the top 50. Venezuela? I I mean, it's like to me like who's gonna which warlord which warlord is gonna run is gonna run, you know, east. Venezuela will sell oil to us. Well, they'll happily sell oil to us. We don't buy oil from them because we sanction them. They'll sell their, of course, they'll sell their oil to us. Trump said that Maduro offered everything. He said, here, here's oil, here's mineral rights, here's whatever you want. Marco Rubio's lifelong obsession is changing governments of the region that his family comes from. That's a big part of it. Venezuela is not a threat to the United States.

• 1:39:42Speaker 05

  There are bad people who come from Venezuela. We've closed the borders. We're deporting them. That's, of course, part of what we should be doing. That's what Trump ran on and and is doing. We don't need to go to war with Venezuela, kill thousands of people, create instability and civil war there for years to come that we're then responsible for.

• 1:39:56Patrick Bet-David?

  So I understand for for you as a non-interventionist that you would take that position.

• 1:40:01Speaker 05

  It's not a principle. It's a pragmatic view.

• 1:40:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I I but I understand what you're saying, but also how how many Venezuelans do we have living here? One million? What's the number? How many people do we have living in the States that escaped Venezuela? The number could be one million, uh, uh, four. What is the number?

• 1:40:18Speaker 05

  Hundred and three thousand one fifty.

• 1:40:19Patrick Bet-David?

  So what percentage of those would go back if Venezuela became, you know, ran under a different regime than Maduro? I don't think you agree that Maduro is a good leader for Venezuela.

• 1:40:27Speaker 05

  No, it's not my, but it's not my, it's not my role to choose Venezuela's leaders.

• 1:40:32Patrick Bet-David?

  So if Maduro, if Venezuela stays like Cuba for the next forty years, to you it's like, it's not my business, it's their problem.

• 1:40:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, why, why, why would, I haven't even been to Venezuela. Have you been to Venezuela?

• 1:40:45Patrick Bet-David?

  I've not been to Venezuela.

• 1:40:46Speaker 05

  How are you gonna choose their leaders?

• 1:40:47Patrick Bet-David?

  I've been to Panama, I've been to a lot of places.

• 1:40:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, I live in Latin America, I've been all around.

• 1:40:50Patrick Bet-David?

  No, you've been all over.

• 1:40:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, but I've been to Venezuela. How am I gonna choose their leader for them?

• 1:40:54Patrick Bet-David?

  No, it's not, it's not about that. To me, it's, again, this goes back to that, that's why I went interventionist, non-interventionist, then I brought this up. This goes back to a potential future crisis that could happen. That a leader has to sit there and say, is this in the top twenty worst things that can happen to us ten, twenty years from now? If there is more, Colombia was a conservative country for many, many years, and then all of a sudden they're flipping now, they have that petrol guy that said, like this, did you see what he said? Like this?

• 1:41:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:41:26Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so you think that's okay for him to do that? You think it, it, it's okay for somebody to say something like that, and then he's friends with those guys and?

• 1:41:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, but, but like I said, Colombia was ruled for decades, for the long, I remember, by a US, close US ally that did what we want. Basically a public government, we had military base in Colombia, we helped them fight that war, that civil war against FARC and other drug militias. You think it reduced the supply of drugs in the United States? It did not, it did not. And like, also, you can look at Venezuela, okay, will Venezuela be a future problem in twenty years? Do you think if we go in, remove Maduro, I'm not saying he's popular among his people, but he has huge numbers of very, very armed followers. Fair enough.

• 1:42:08Patrick Bet-David?

  Fifty-one, fifty-nine percent, whatever the number, sixteen to forty-two.

• 1:42:11Speaker 05

  Still, still, you're talking about millions of armed people loyal to Venezuela, and even if they don't like Maduro, it's not like everybody loves the United States coming in and intervening and invading. It's like, oh, the Iraqis are gonna welcome, welcome us as liberators, right? That's, that was the theory, that, that proved not to be true, not because people love Saddam. But because people don't like the United States coming in, we're gonna go in and we're gonna kill a bunch of, we're gonna lose, you know, even in Panama, we lost hundreds of soldiers who died, American soldiers. Venezuela is a much harder, bigger country, more armed, it's gonna be a lot harder. But then, once you remove Maduro and you prop up this regime, now you're responsible for this regime, responsible for propping it up, this government, and you're gonna have civil war, you're gonna have civil conflict for the longest time. It's gonna spill over into neighboring countries, including Brazil,

• 1:42:55Speaker 05

  into the United States, we're gonna take refugees, we're gonna take whomever. That's also gonna create massive problems. It's not like we're gonna surgically remove Maduro, put him into a US prison or kill him, and then everything, just, you know, democracy and peace and love flourishes in Venezuela. We're gonna be responsible for that country. You go in and you break it, and now you own it. That's what Colin Powell said about Iraq, and it was true about Iraq. Why are we gonna take on their, I'm not, the Venezuelan people have every right to hate Maduro. I don't contest that at all. We're not gonna help, we're not there to help. That's not our goal. Even if it were, we can't help. We don't understand these other countries. Every country has a, you know, you know how long it took me to feel comfortable even talking about Brazilian politics? Like, at least a decade

• 1:43:37Speaker 05

  of living there. And even then, I realized, like, it's never gonna be in my DNA the way the US is. You know, like, I'm always gonna understand the US the best. Every country's very complicated. You can't just go in and move the pieces around, like chess pieces from Foggy Bottom and the State Department and think you're gonna succeed.

• 1:43:52Patrick Bet-David?

  I don't disagree. However, the job of a guy running the greatest country in the world is to identify future threats that could potentially happen, that's brewing in different places.

• 1:44:07Speaker 05

  What is that threat? They don't have nukes?

• 1:44:09Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I don't think, I don't think it's, I don't think it's that threat that, you know, the traditional threat that we're looking at with Russia or somebody else. I don't think it's Iran that, you know, you're doing what you're doing there. But I do think it's something that, it's right next to us. It's a neighbor. It's close to us. It's still on this side. Here's Petro, by the way, from Colombia, saying, I'm sure you've seen this as well. Go ahead, Rob.

• 1:44:32Speaker 00

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• 1:45:29Patrick Bet-David?

  Puede ser por el mismo Trump. La más fácil. Si no, saca la Trump. Okay, so the translation is not there, but what he says is if not, we get rid of Trump is what he says. How do you think US should react to something like this? Nothing? Just kind of let it be the president of Colombia saying something like that will get rid of Trump?

• 1:45:48Speaker 05

  Okay, it's Colombia. You know, it's like, it's like there's chants in Iran, "Death to America." Okay, they chant "Death to America." Is Iran going to invade the United States? Is Iran going to bomb the United States? Is, no, these are words. Also, Trump has trash talked the Colombian leader quite a bit as well.

• 1:46:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Death, saying we'll kill him?

• 1:46:07Speaker 05

  No, he said, "We'll get rid of Trump." But yes, Trump did say, you know, he's a, he's a drug, what did he call him? He's a leader of a drug gang or he's a drug trafficker.

• 1:46:18Patrick Bet-David?

  He was.

• 1:46:19Speaker 05

  And if he doesn't, who?

• 1:46:21Patrick Bet-David?

  His background? Petro's background?

• 1:46:23Speaker 05

  He was, here's the thing. Like, at some point, you know, first of all, there's a lot of countries in this world that hate the United States. And political leaders benefit domestically by talking about the United States, by railing against the United States. We're the strongest country in the world. We have to have the security to know that people can talk all they want. You know, it's like kind of you're the biggest, you know, strongest person. You don't get upset when people...

• 1:46:48Patrick Bet-David?

  I think this is what you were talking about.

• 1:46:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, look, I mean, he's an illegal drug leader strongly. I mean, this is a threat as well. I mean, coming from Trump, it's intended to be a threat. It is a threat. So, these leaders, you know, have a, there's people in their country who want to see their leader standing up, you know, when, when, when Trump says something like that. These are words. Colombia is not a threat to the United States. Venezuela is not a threat to the United States. And wars should be resolved, reserved for, I believed in the, like, I was very associated with the left, you know, my whole career, and then Trump comes and starts talking about the evils of the deep state and America first, and how these wars are all wasteful, and he runs against Bush Cheney, foreign policy, and Reagan economics, and the bipartisan swamp, and this is music to my ears, and I'm hoping it's true, I want to believe in this, I think

• 1:47:34Speaker 05

  that was the potential of Trump, and still is. These kind of wars, like bombing Yemen, going around, you know, feeding Ukraine weapons, regime change of Venezuela, these were all the things we were told that we would, should be expected that would end.

• 1:47:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Okay, so, journalism.

• 1:47:52Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:47:53Patrick Bet-David?

  Let's talk about Barry Weiss. Barry Weiss just got, I want to say, I don't know if it's finalized yet or not, but a $150 million deal.

• 1:47:58Speaker 05

  It's finalized.

• 1:47:59Patrick Bet-David?

  It's finalized, $150 million deal with CBS, and I even think she called Bret Baer, a $150 million deal, editor in chief role, acquisition position Weiss as the top editorial voice at CBS News overseeing a historic program like 60 Minutes, CBS Sunday Morning, she reports directly to Paramount Sky, that's David Ellison, which we brought up briefly earlier, and this is a, she had, I think she has a 140,000 members at the time, paying 10 bucks a month, so you got 1.4 million dollars, give or take, times 12, say, 20 million dollar business, 18 million dollar business.

• 1:48:37Speaker 05

  I think it's 15 million.

• 1:48:38Patrick Bet-David?

  15 million dollar business, on reoccurring membership base, which the valuation she probably got is higher, because the cost is probably not going to be that much. What do you think about what happened with her, the success story, and her going to CBS?

• 1:48:51Speaker 05

  So, first of all, I know Barry, anyone who knows Barry will say what I'm about to say, which is she's an extremely charming, nice person, like, interpersonally, impossible not to like Barry Weiss. Same with her wife, Nellie, like, just great people. I'm also a huge proponent of independent media, I like when independent media succeeds, I like when it grows and thrives, I think more competition, the better. No issue at all, Barry Weiss can get, you know, 800 million dollars if she can find somebody to give it to her for the free press, don't care about that at all. What I care about is the following. This is all, we're talking about David Ellison, it's really Larry Ellison who's behind all this. Larry Ellison is either the richest or second richest person in the world, depending on his and Elon's fluctuations in net worth.

• 1:49:33Speaker 05

  Larry Ellison, he has one main political cause, and that's Israel. He's an American citizen. He's the single largest donor, private donor to the IDF. I don't know why it's legal for an American citizen to donate money to a foreign army. I don't even know why it's illegal for an American citizen to go fight in a foreign army. A lot of Americans go fight in the IDF. He donates to the IDF.

• 1:49:52Patrick Bet-David?

  How much does he give to the IDF?

• 1:49:54Speaker 05

  He gave, you know, just on one night, he gave 20 million dollars. It's, you know, over the year. It's now, you know, in the scheme of his wealth of like-

• 1:50:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Is it direct to IDF?

• 1:50:01Speaker 05

  It's called Friends, it's called Friends of the IDF. It's for people to donate money. They provide services to the IDF, you know, like new this for the IDF, new housing, new benefits for the soldiers, whatever. Um, but yeah, it's supplementing and, and, and, and funding the IDF. Like, why not do that? He's an American citizen, why not do that for American soldiers? But he's choosing to do it for Israeli soldiers, whatever. Uh, and that's not my issue. I'm not, apparently it's legal-

• 1:50:23Patrick Bet-David?

  I didn't know this, but in his mind, he could say, I pay billions of dollars into the US military through taxes. He may, he may say that, but what-

• 1:50:31Speaker 05

  Still, American veterans are not doing that well, but still, okay. In 2017, Ellison made a record-breaking single donation of 16.6 million to the Friends of the IDF.

• 1:50:39Patrick Bet-David?

  I did not know that.

• 1:50:40Speaker 05

  So he's donating money directly, 2014, he ten more million dollars. Okay, so he's the single largest donor to the IDF. But beyond that, you know, he's a major, major, major fanatical supporter of Israel, even though he's an American citizen and the country that gave him his wealth is not Israel, but the United States, whatever. But that is his cause. Right at the moment, the public opinion polls are showing an unraveling of support for Israel and the United States unlike anything I certainly ever anticipated or expected to see in my lifetime, especially with the younger generation. And he had Nick Funtis on your show. I think I interviewed him like a week before or after he was on your show. Uh, he was just on Tucker Carlson's, kind of representative of not everybody, but you know, like kind of under 30 conservatives who for the first time are, you know, questioning Israel. It's a big threat, as we talked about.

• 1:51:25Speaker 05

  Israel needs the US. And they look at public opinion polls where there's an unraveling of support for Israel and major conservative influencers, not just people on the left, which has been a case for a while, but major conservative influencers and politicians are now saying, why are we giving all this money back? This is a, they're panicking over this. Larry Ellison, at exactly that point, goes and buys CBS News, one of the most storied news outlets or brands in the United States history. Not a lot of people watching these days, but still has that imprimatur. But also Paramount, which is a major entertainment company.

• 1:51:59Patrick Bet-David?

  Massive purchase, eight billion bucks, massive.

• 1:52:01Speaker 05

  Take somebody who has never run a newsroom, never even been a reporter. Barry Weiss is, you know, an opinion columnist. She's worked in the opinion pages of the Washington Post, New York Times, which I, I love opinion journalism. I, I do opinion journalism, I have a lot of respect for it, but it's not really, I wouldn't expect anyone to make me the editor chief of CBS. And I think I have a lot more accomplishments in just hardcore journalism than Barry. I think she would say that too. But still, I would consider myself unqualified. A major reason, obviously, why is because she's fanatically pro-Israel and that aligns perfectly with the Ellison agenda.

• 1:52:31Patrick Bet-David?

  Is Barry fanatically pro-Israel?

• 1:52:32Speaker 05

  Oh, my God.

• 1:52:33Patrick Bet-David?

  Is she Jewish herself?

• 1:52:34Speaker 05

  Barry's totally Jewish and her main cause is Israel.

• 1:52:37Patrick Bet-David?

  I didn't know that.

• 1:52:38Speaker 05

  Oh, Barry is. You wind Barry up and, and she, she spouts pro-Israel, pro-Israel agenda. You know, she, she grew up in an Orthodox Jewish household. She, you know, is, she's not Orthodox now, she's married to a woman, obviously, but she's still very Jewish, very pro-Israel. The Free Press is pro-Israel too. That's part of what David Ellison likes about her. By the way, it wasn't like Israel was owned previously by Palestinians or Muslims. It was owned by Sheri Redstone, who also is Jewish, the heir to, to the daughter of Summer Redstone, who was also very pro-Israel. In fact, Sheri Redstone, the previous owner of Paramount CBS, said the reason she decided to sell Paramount CBS is because after October 7th, she lost interest in journalism and she only wants to devote herself to Israel. So it's not exactly like it was a hotbed of Palestinian activism before, but now they're taking over that.

• 1:53:23Speaker 05

  He also wants to buy Warner Brothers, which owns Discovery and CNN. So CNN could also be under the control of David Ellison. And in this deal that Trump engineered, Larry Ellison is one of the major players in the consortium that just took over TikTok. Even though nobody watches CBS, obviously huge numbers of people get their news from TikTok. TikTok installed a former IDF soldier as the content moderator for all matters Israel and. Literally, she's a woman, she's an American woman, but she went to Israel, made a lea to Israel and then fought in the IDF.

• 1:53:55Patrick Bet-David?

  What does she do?

• 1:53:56Speaker 05

  She's 28 years old.

• 1:53:58Patrick Bet-David?

  But what, what is her job?

• 1:53:59Speaker 05

  She's the content moderator in charge of all questions Israel and antisemitism, which of course antisemitism means criticizing Israel. You can TikTok IDF, I think, is that her? Yeah, I think that's her. She, she, she was fighting, fighting in the IDF as, there you go. TikTok appoints ex-Israeli soldier as new hate speech manager.

• 1:54:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Go a little bit lower up? Mendel, go to the quote, let's see what the quote say, no, above, above, right, the man that will be tasked with forming a TikTok takes speech, relevant legislative or regulatory framework monitoring trends, particularly those related to anti Semitic TikToks appointment as extra, Erica Mendel previously worked with the US Department of, under Ambassador Deborah Lipsat.

• 1:54:37Speaker 05

  Who was the envoy of anti Semitism for Biden.

• 1:54:40Patrick Bet-David?

  So she's a liberal.

• 1:54:42Speaker 05

  She's 28, she's making $400,000 a year at TikTok. The reason they TikTok hired her was because the ADL demanded it. The ADL was a major advocating shutting down TikTok. But you know, this is so important about TikTok. Trump was the one who originally proposed shutting TikTok. The argument was because of the influence of China. It went nowhere. It didn't get anywhere near the votes. No one wanted to close TikTok. The only reason why the TikTok ban ended up succeeding, Biden, White House got on board with it, was after October 7th, Democrats became convinced that a major reason why American young people were turning against Israel was because there was too much pro Palestinian content permitted on TikTok. The sponsors of the TikTok ban will say, that's the reason it finally passed.

• 1:55:22Speaker 05

  Biden got behind it. The ADL demanded TikTok be closed or forced a sale to it. So they forced a sale to it and it ends up in the hands of Larry Ellison, who now controls CBS, now controls, is about to control CNN and also TikTok along with others. Has this former IDF soldier as the censorship czar, as Mint Press calls it, pretty much what it is. She's 28, making $400,000 a year, but in the IDF.

• 1:55:46Patrick Bet-David?

  What school did she go to? Did she go to a, can you go Google her name and see what school she went to? Erica Mendel?

• 1:55:51Speaker 05

  Mindle, Mindle, yeah, Mindle, just as a way of.

• 1:55:54Patrick Bet-David?

  What school did she go to, Zoom in?

• 1:55:57Speaker 05

  University of Michigan.

• 1:55:58Patrick Bet-David?

  16, Master of Public Policy, John Happings.

• 1:56:00Speaker 05

  And a master's from John Happings. You know, decent, decent schools for sure.

• 1:56:03Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, good schools.

• 1:56:04Speaker 05

  But that's not why she got, that's not why the ADL demanded TikTok put her in charge of censorship.

• 1:56:10Speaker 05

  And then there you see.

• 1:56:11Patrick Bet-David?

  You think she's there.

• 1:56:13Speaker 05

  I know she that of course.

• 1:56:14Patrick Bet-David?

  She's there to protect.

• 1:56:15Speaker 05

  After graduation from the University of Michigan, Mindell moved to Israel and served an instructor with the IDF. And she's she has lots of videos of her talking about the centrality of Israel in her life. She served with under Deborah Lipstadt as a special envoy to monitor and combat antisemitism. I mean, this is she's young. She's only 28. This is all she ever done.

• 1:56:33Patrick Bet-David?

  So this happened, uh, May of this year. This is pre. Well, they probably already knew who was going to own the 80% because they kept the 20% for ByteDance, right? They said ByteDance get to keep 20% non, uh, a board member. They don't have any kind of influence, but they get to keep 20%. The equity out of $14 billion valuation, if I'm not mistaken.

• 1:56:51Speaker 05

  And the idea always was, like I said, the impetus, though the original impetus was China. That was the argument. That's not why it passed. It passed because of the concern that TikTok was selling too much pro Palestinian content. Young Americans are feeding on it, turning against Israel. Obviously, Trump was going to, he wanted it to have be controlled by Trump allies, but also obviously people who are, and it just so happens to be with Larry Ellison. This is what concerns me. You have a map. Why should it even be legal for one person to control CBS News, CBS Entertainment, Paramount, Warner Brothers, uh, CNN and TikTok? That's a lot of information and media centralization in the hands of a single person with a very pronounced agenda that's in favor of a foreign country, not the United States. But, okay, it's legal.

• 1:57:36Speaker 05

  I'm not, I'm sure there's lawyers who cleared it, whatever. But nonetheless, it's, I hope, a basis for a lot of concern that exactly at the time that this pro-Israel bipartisan contention is unraveling, you have a fanatical donor to the IDF, a foreign military in control of these media outlets now, and then elevate somebody very wise, whose entire life is about defending Israel.

• 1:58:01Patrick Bet-David?

  So instead of a Larry Ellison owning it, who would you rather own own these outlets? It's free enterprise, right? If they want to come out, I don't think there's a monopoly law on this because, you know, he would be one of five or six. I think he's he becomes overnight the number one media power player in the world.

• 1:58:18Speaker 05

  For sure, without doubt.

• 1:58:19Patrick Bet-David?

  I put him at number one. And by the way.

• 1:58:22Speaker 05

  Maybe you were through with Murdoch, you know, but probably he's leapfrogging him.

• 1:58:25Patrick Bet-David?

  I put him ahead of him. Now, don't get me wrong. Murdoch has Wall Street, he has a lot of good assets that they bought over the years as well. But Murdoch doesn't have Ellison type of money. He does not. Ellison has the type of money to buy small countries if he wanted to.

• 1:58:38Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 1:58:38Patrick Bet-David?

  There's only a couple of people that have that kind of money.

• 1:58:40Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 1:58:41Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah. So, okay. So the concern here is maybe he's sitting there and saying, look, how are you fighting against Soros? This is how I'm fighting against Soros. Why are you not happy about it, Glenn? If I don't do anything, what are other people going to be doing? Soros is going out there buying all these other assets. Soros is going out to give them money to a bunch of different people. Soros is going out there agitating people. You want me to just sit on the sidelines and not do anything with the money that I have? What's wrong with it? What would you say to that?

• 1:59:06Speaker 05

  First of all, these are not, he's not a counterweight to Soros in the sense that he's some right wing ideologue. Larry Ellison was a very, like most Silicon Valley, had very good relationship with the Obama administration. You know, Elon too. A lot of these guys have had very good relationship with Democratic Party over the years, Trump included. It's not that they're right wing ideologues. It's that there's two questions. You know, I founded a media outlet, The Intercept, and it was funded by a billionaire, Pierre Midiar, who was the founder of eBay and eventually the owner of PayPal as well. So when you have a billionaire in control of media outlets, which, you know, that's just going to buy media outlets, people, it's not going to be, you know, labor syndicates, it's going to be billionaires. The question is, are they going to interfere? Do they have a hardcore political agenda that is causing them to buy it?

• 1:59:50Speaker 05

  And will they interfere? And I think, you know, like I said, Sherry Redstone previously owned Paramount and CVS, and yet 60 Minutes caused a lot of controversy when they published, they did some investigative journalism about the atrocities in Gaza. It upset them, but it was still, it was still done. The concern, and I think it's a very valid one, you know, Larry Ellison is, I think, 82 years old. You're kind of at the end of your life. You want to use your money. You know, you bought all the plane. He's a pilot.

• 2:00:17Patrick Bet-David?

  I think he's gonna live close to 100. I think he's a young 80 to 82 year old.

• 2:00:20Speaker 05

  Insane what he looks like. And yeah, no, credit to him for that. But, you know, still, he's in the last stage of his life.

• 2:00:28Patrick Bet-David?

  Sure.

• 2:00:28Speaker 05

  He's uncancelable, obviously. And, you know, you want to leave your mark on the world. And I think, you know, if your main cause is Israel, and you see the United States, the country on which Israel depends, turning against Israel, you're gonna do what you can to reverse that trend. And one of the ways you do that is by buying the sources of information and making sure that it's no longer a permissive font for anti-Israel viewpoints.

• 2:00:51Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I mean, this Pierre guy who was a, where's he from? He's from Iran, and he's a Islamic faith background of many Iranians.

• 2:00:59Speaker 05

  Pierre, many are. He left Iran when you did. He left Iran when he was like six, I think. He moved to France.

• 2:01:05Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah. So, okay, this, this him right here. Is he a billionaire or is he?

• 2:01:09Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:01:10Patrick Bet-David?

  He is a billionaire.

• 2:01:10Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:01:11Patrick Bet-David?

  Net worth of 8.7 billion. Yeah, man, compared to Allison, he's struggling financially, man.

• 2:01:16Speaker 05

  There you see, in 2013, he announced he would create and finance First Look Media Journalism Mentor to include Glenn Greenwald, Laura Poitiers, and Jeremy Skell.

• 2:01:23Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:23Speaker 05

  He made good on his word. I never heard from Pierre about, you know, I used to, Pierre became a fanatical anti-Trump hater, a Russiagate believer. I was one of the leading voices, knowing that Russiagate was bullshit. I wrote every day about how Russiagate is horrible. He started financing Never Trump organizations like Bill Kristol and the Bulwark. I attacked those groups every day that he was financing. He was kind of like the US funding both sides of a civil war. Never once heard from him not to do that, never had any problem with him. Really kept, you know, to his word that he would stay out of our editorial process. Credit to him for doing that. But that's the exception and not the rule.

• 2:01:58Patrick Bet-David?

  Got it. Okay. Let's do a last story here before we wrap up with Brazil. They meet, Rob, if you can pull up the clip. They meet in Malaysia, Trump and Lula. And, you know, Trump was somewhat complimentary until one question was asked, and he told that one reporter, "None of your business," where she said, "Are you guys gonna talk about Maduro?" Not Maduro, I'm sorry. "Are you guys gonna talk about Bolsonaro, previous president?" He says, "None of your business." I think right there at the bottom, Rob, that's the one. Go up a little bit more. Is that the one that? How many days ago is that? October 25th? Is he talking about Bolsonaro? No.

• 2:02:37Patrick Bet-David?

  So they met together. Now, you know, Brazil has a guy that I would say, some may say more powerful than Lula is, Alexandre de Moraes, who comes out and kind of figures out who can beat Bolsonaro. Goes back, Operation Car Wash, you reported on it many times. A few hundred million dollars of money that was stolen, couple billionaires I think went to jail, couple guys that were worth 10, 20 billion dollars, one guy was worth a couple billion dollars. And brings them out, they beat Bolsonaro. Bolsonaro is now in very, you know, dire-

• 2:03:12Speaker 05

  Going to prison.

• 2:03:12Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, going to prison. What do you think about this relationship with Lula and Trump today? And they're saying something's gonna happen, we're gonna get a deal done.

• 2:03:20Speaker 05

  Alright, so a couple things. One thing is, regardless of what you think of Lula's politics, he's a generational political talent, kinda like you can say that of Obama. I mean, he's been around for a long time, he was hated when he first ran, Brazil was not a left-wing country. I've never met a person with more visceral charisma than Lula. The first time I ever interviewed him, after five minutes, I was like entranced. I was like, wait a minute, you can't, that's not your role here, that's what I do. I had to fight against it. He's incredibly personally charming, like insane, you know, and he, and it's real. He comes from like a genuine background of poverty. You know, nine, he was one of nine kids, he worked in a factory, lost a finger, the whole iconography. He's a, he's, he's not to be underestimated in terms of his interpersonal skills, and he charmed Trump.

• 2:04:03Speaker 05

  Trump didn't like Lula because Trump loves Bolsonaro, you know, Lula's putting him in prison, Trump, Lula's a left-wing figure. After one phone call with, with Lula, Trump totally changed his tune. And just saying like, yeah, he's a really nice guy, goes and met, met with him, and the whole tone changes. The thing is, Lula's not in charge of the country, Lula's a puppet, he's a symbol. There's a center-right faction, kinda like a never-Trump faction. It'd be like if, if, you know, it would be like if Kamala won, a lot of the people who would be running for it in policy would be neocons. You know, it wouldn't be like anything left-wing. And you have Alexandre de Moraes, he's a center-right figure, got appointed by a- A center-right president, not by the left, who's in charge of the country censoring

• 2:04:48Speaker 05

  people, imprisoning political opponents of Lula, is Lula's acquiescing to it, he's fine with it, but that's, Lula's not where the power resides. Lula is the only person who, Lula was in prison, and the Supreme Court let Lula out of prison. They used my reporting as a pretext, but the real reason they let him out is because they wanted Bolsonaro gone, and there was only one person in the country who had a chance to beat Bolsonaro, and it was Lula. They had to invalidate his conviction to do so, let him out of prison, that's what they did. The thing is, is that Brazil is a very, you know, important country, geostrategically, has tons of oil, has tons of minerals, and Trump wants those. Trump, also, as I said, Brazil has moved toward China. Brazil is always, you know, it's in

• 2:05:30Speaker 05

  our hemisphere, it's the Monroe Doctrine, you know, we control Latin America. Brazil has moved toward China. Brazil is a founding member of BRICS, which Trump hates and sees a threat, and also they're imprisoning Bolsonaro in a way that Trump identifies with. He looks at Bolsonaro and sees him as a victim of the same kind of lawfare that victimized Trump, and they're censoring a lot of people on the right, including people who, there's a lot of ties between MAGA world and the Brazilian right, between Bolsonaro and he's just, you have people in the State Department, in the White House, who hate Lula and Marais, and so they've imposed sanctions on Brazil, tariffs on Brazil that were kind of punitive, but also, I think it was because of BRICS, but also they sanctioned Alessandro de Marais

• 2:06:12Speaker 05

  and his wife as human rights violators, you know, and so, the question is, is the US really going to follow through with this antagonism toward, toward Brazil, or is this going to just all get resolved? Lula wants to resolve it, he's running for reelection next year, needs to resolve it, these tariffs can harm Brazil's economy, already are, and I think Lula's kind of gone on some kind of offensive.

• 2:06:32Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think Trump's gonna ask for?

• 2:06:34Speaker 05

  I think they want Brazil to move away from China, to move more toward the United States in terms of commerce and trade.

• 2:06:42Speaker 05

  Lula is a very shrewd political, here's the thing, on the one hand, Lula was alive, and not just alive, but politically active in the 60s when the US overthrew their democratically elected center-left government and imposed a right-wing military dictatorship. And the entire Brazilian left, you know, views that as the worst thing that ever happened in Brazilian history and blames the United States for it, for not unreasonable reasons. So, Lula naturally has an instinct toward resisting US involvement, resisting US interference in the country, you know, that's why when there were tariffs, what really helped Lula is he raised this like nationalistic flag, like Brazilians determine Brazil, who cares what Trump says about our, we're gonna let our justice system go against Bolsonaro, that

• 2:07:27Speaker 05

  he adopted this very nationalistic posture, which helped them politically. On the other hand, he's always had very good relationships with the US, very close to the Obama administration, Obama loved him, Biden loved him, the CIA went to Brazil.

• 2:07:40Patrick Bet-David?

  Obama said something extremely complimentary to him.

• 2:07:43Speaker 05

  He said, basically-

• 2:07:44Patrick Bet-David?

  You're the greatest politician of our generation, something like that.

• 2:07:46Speaker 05

  Because, because when Lula left the presidency after being terminated from office in 2010, his approval rating was like 86%. Brazil, that, those two terms, under Lula, Brazil exploded economically, passed the UK as the sixth largest economy, not necessarily because of Lula, but you know, you're the president, you get credit, also introduced something really interesting social benefits, like, it's called Bolsa Família, the poorest people get a monthly payment, but only if they prove their kids are going to school every day, like, they have to get vaccinated, they have to go to the doctor, you know, the mothers have like an obligation in order to get the money, it's not just a free handout. And, you know, even kind of like neo-liberals praise this kind of social program, because it's not just a handout, it's forcing citizens to demonstrate responsibility, but it helped

• 2:08:30Speaker 05

  lift people out of poverty, so yeah, Obama went and said, this is the guy who is the greatest politician on the planet, figured it out, exactly. And so the US has always done business with Brazil, very close relationship, despite all this anti-American rhetoric. So, I think Lula is gonna, you know, he's gonna get these tariffs gone, he's gonna give Trump what he wants, in combination with charming Trump. The question is- I think Trump's just not very worked up over Brazil. Like, it kind of bores him is the sense I get. There are a lot of people I know very well at very high levels of the Trump administration who are fanatical about the abuses in Brazil and want US power applied to stop it. I just don't know if Trump is going to override that, if he's going to care enough, if he's going to just delegate it to Marco Rubio and Scott Bassett and let them try and figure it out without...

• 2:09:15Speaker 05

  You know, I don't know what's going to happen, but I know Lula's going to absolutely do everything possible. It's funny, when Lula meets with Trump, it's barely noticed in the US. It's like headline news in Brazil for the entire week because it's such a crucial part of the relationship Brazil for the US is.

• 2:09:30Patrick Bet-David?

  Absolutely, especially those two. If Lula meets with Biden, who cares? Lula meets with Trump? So, the question, I'm actually really curious to know what the asks are going to be in exchange to make the tariff relationship better. I'm actually very curious.

• 2:09:45Speaker 05

  They have minerals, like, you know, vital minerals.

• 2:09:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Do you think anything's going to be, you gotta let, leave Bolsonaro out? You think anything's going to be with that? Because everybody knows Alexandre de Moraes is running Brazil. Everybody knows he's the most powerful guy.

• 2:09:58Speaker 05

  And he's crazy. He doesn't care about...

• 2:10:01Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, I mean...

• 2:10:01Speaker 05

  He'll sacrifice the whole country to continue his crusade.

• 2:10:05Patrick Bet-David?

  So who cares what you agree with Lula? Alexandre is not going away. How old is Alexandre? 63? 64?

• 2:10:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, he's young, healthy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:10:13Patrick Bet-David?

  How old is he?

• 2:10:14Speaker 05

  He's, yeah, he's maybe in his late 50s.

• 2:10:16Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, my God!

• 2:10:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, 56, yeah.

• 2:10:18Patrick Bet-David?

  56 years old? This guy's good.

• 2:10:20Speaker 05

  He was just appointed five years ago.

• 2:10:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Yeah, I mean, and the story of how it was conflicted because at one point, some people are like, wow, I think he's good. I don't know. And boom, he comes out of nowhere and then now they got the control of Supreme Court. I don't even know what the number is. 80% they got control of the Supreme. They own majority of Congress, majority of, you know, Senate.

• 2:10:40Speaker 05

  And even, even, but again, this is not a left-wing faction running Brazil. This is a center, center-right faction, but the kind that hates Bolsonaro in the way that that center-right faction hated Trump.

• 2:10:52Patrick Bet-David?

  What's the guy's name that they can always be bought? He's on the middle and he can flip either side if they give him something? What's that party called in Brazil?

• 2:10:58Speaker 05

  Well, it's a central. It's like the faction central.

• 2:11:00Patrick Bet-David?

  Who is the main guy? Campos? Who's the guy at the top? The guy that's at the top of that party, who is, who's, what's the political party called?

• 2:11:08Speaker 05

  Well, there's, it's central is composed of many, like, Uniao Brasil, PSDB.

• 2:11:13Patrick Bet-David?

  Can you go to it, Rob?

• 2:11:14Speaker 05

  PMBD. I don't know who you mean by, like, the main...

• 2:11:19Patrick Bet-David?

  Party, not Liberal Party, Workers' Party.

• 2:11:21Speaker 05

  No, Brazil Union, Unão Brasil is part of, is part of the Central. Uh, is part of the Central. You know, they have like, uh, a Speaker of the House and, and a President of the Senate, who are both pretty transactional part of the Central. Central runs the, the Congress.

• 2:11:35Patrick Bet-David?

  Oh, that guy Gilberto Casab, that's who I was talking about.

• 2:11:38Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:11:39Patrick Bet-David?

  Gilberto Casab is like a dealmaker that, depending on which political party, he typically ends up becoming the final decision maker on.

• 2:11:45Speaker 05

  Uh, he, but, but the PSD is like a center-left party. It's not really a center-right party. It's a center-left party. It, I wouldn't put, put it that way, but yes, he's, he's a very important powerful figure. But, but what I want to stress, like Bolsonaro's, uh, Lula's Vice President is Geraldo Alckmin, who was the former mayor of Sao Paulo, ran against Lula, was part of this center-right party, kind of like the Republicans and Democrats. It would be like if Biden chose Paul Ryan as his Vice President. It was a, it's an establishment union against the Bolsonaro movement. And that's who really is in control of the center-right.

• 2:12:18Patrick Bet-David?

  What do you think's gonna happen to Bolsonaro?

• 2:12:20Speaker 05

  I think he's gonna go to prison. I think Trump's gonna, I don't think Trump is willing to sacrifice everything in the Brazil-US relationship to save Bolsonaro. I think Bolsonaro's going to go to prison.

• 2:12:29Patrick Bet-David?

  You're kidding me.

• 2:12:30Speaker 05

  Bolsonaro is, by the way, he is extremely ill. You know, he, he, in 2018, when he was running for president, he got stabbed, became very close to dying. His entire intestinal system was cut up. He's very physically ailing, psychologically ailing. He's, I think he's gonna go to prison. And I don't think Trump's gonna save him. Trump probably, maybe Trump? I mean, of course, Trump could.

• 2:12:52Patrick Bet-David?

  He has to. He ha, what I mean by has to is not like, I'm coming from an emotional place. What I'm saying is, he has to is, Bolsonaro's camp, everywhere you go that there's a Trump event, they're everywhere. They're everywhere. And they're very much supportive and good to Trump.

• 2:13:12Speaker 05

  Totally. No, the Brazilian right, but let me.

• 2:13:14Patrick Bet-David?

  Nicolás Fejeria, you got Eduardo, you got, uh.

• 2:13:17Speaker 05

  Absolutely. They love Trump. But let me ask you this. Just be honest. Like, I know you will be. Let's say you're in a foreign country and the political class wants you imprisoned. And Trump says, yeah, I like that guy. You're friends with Trump. You know that Trump likes you. But what a class saying, hey, Trump, let's do deals. All these deals here. Money, money. Geostrategic advantage, advantage over China. Forget, forget that guy. He's old. We need to send him to prison. Do you trust Trump? Do you feel like 100% you're not going to prison because Trump's going to stand in, in your defense? Or do you think you're going to be possibly thrown to the wayside?

• 2:13:53Patrick Bet-David?

  I think it all depends on what, what and who he needs for the next phase. And who has been very loyal to him. He'll protect the guys that have been very loyal to him. You know, and, and what I mean by this is, you know,

• 2:14:15Patrick Bet-David?

  e- e- e- even if you think about some of the guys, because he's very, like, we talked about earlier, the unpredictable side. I put him 50/50, but I, I would be, if I was him trying to do the deal, the deal for me would be, I would do XYZ. You have to leave Bolsonaro out. Here's why. If Bolsonaro is sick, as you say he is, who cares if you let him out? He's not going to be able to compete with you anyways. And the reason why I would trust that, that he would do that is because I do think in 2036, Nicolas is going to run. And if he is around, because they really, he gets a lot of threats. If he's around, do you know what kind of views Nicolas gets when he gets out there and talks on Instagram?

• 2:15:00Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's mega. I mean, he did one video that's single-handedly tanked Lula's approval rating about this proposed tax on this system of-

• 2:15:10Patrick Bet-David?

  One of his videos got 350 million views this year.

• 2:15:12Speaker 05

  Probably that one. No, Nicolas is incredibly, he's a superstar in terms of social media.

• 2:15:17Patrick Bet-David?

  The way I see it is, I see it as him-

• 2:15:22Patrick Bet-David?

  Protecting Bolsonaro, knowing his health is not going to allow him to run, is indirectly helping Nicolas, because Nicolas is going to come out and play the role of a flag carrier and the Bolsonaro camp is going to go to him. I think this guy's a one center generation type of guy.

• 2:15:39Speaker 05

  Unquestionably, unquestionably, but his political talent is insane. No, I mean, it's different, I mean, but like, no, and he's very shrewd, very shrewd, very smart. But the thing is, just quickly, I'm not saying Bolsonaro is terminal, I just want to be clear. Like, I think part of why he's so ill is because of the psychological stress that he's about to go to prison. I think a lot of the Bolsonaro movement wants him to run in 2026 and polls show he definitely would have a good chance. That's why they're not going to let him run. That's precisely why. He's not, I think they would easily, right now, he's declared ineligible to run for the next eight years. He was already declared ineligible before he was found guilty of attempting a coup. But I think he would obviously trade, all right, let me at least serve prison term at home or not go to prison in exchange for not running.

• 2:16:21Speaker 05

  They do have a pretty formidable guy who's sort of one foot in Bolsonaro movement, one foot in the center-right. He's the governor of Sao Paulo, Tercesio Freitas, who could defeat Lula, was, you know, about to be 80. So there are people who could defeat Lula besides Bolsonaro, but Bolsonaro would by far be the biggest political threat. I just, last time, when I heard Lula with Trump, Trump seemed a little bored with Brazil, is how I would put it.

• 2:16:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Could be.

• 2:16:49Speaker 05

  There's a lot on his plate, obviously.

• 2:16:50Patrick Bet-David?

  And what you're saying with, you know, him putting it on as, hey, you go, Rubio, you handle it, you do that. But again, you said something about a lot of these guys that come here, who are maybe born here, and, but their families escaped Cuba or Venezuela, whatever. To them, they have an affinity, I'm from Iran, so I'd like to see Iran be free for me to take my kids over there. And I see that as, you know.

• 2:17:12Speaker 05

  Of course, it's natural.

• 2:17:13Patrick Bet-David?

  It's very natural, I totally get that. And balancing that out. You still, as the individual, have to be America first.

• 2:17:21Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 2:17:21Patrick Bet-David?

  It's like, look, I get it. I understand the nostalgia, I understand emotion, I understand the members, your grandpa, grandma, all this stuff, but guess what, man? You're here.

• 2:17:29Speaker 05

  This is your country.

• 2:17:30Patrick Bet-David?

  This is number one.

• 2:17:30Speaker 05

  This is where you're benefiting from. This is the country to which you owe loyalty.

• 2:17:35Patrick Bet-David?

  I fully get that argument. Glenn, I'm glad we did it just you and I today.

• 2:17:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, it was great. I really enjoyed it.

• 2:17:41Patrick Bet-David?

  It was actually a lot of fun. We've never had this. It was typically...

• 2:17:44Speaker 05

  Not that I wouldn't love Vinnie and the gang being here, but Adam and...

• 2:17:47Patrick Bet-David?

  Next time, we'll do it as a crew.

• 2:17:48Speaker 05

  For sure.

• 2:17:49Patrick Bet-David?

  Because they really enjoyed last time as well. And Glenn, folks, if you're watching this, Rob, do we have this in the comment below?

• 2:17:57Speaker 05

  I'll put it in.

• 2:17:58Patrick Bet-David?

  If we can, follow his Substack, follow his videos on Rumble. I think I see your stuff on YouTube as well now.

• 2:18:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, we put the Rumble show, segments of the Rumble show on YouTube that are doing well. So, yeah, we put those on YouTube as well.

• 2:18:10Patrick Bet-David?

  Is there anything you're working on right now that you want to share with the audience?

• 2:18:13Speaker 05

  No, that's pretty much it for the moment.

• 2:18:15Patrick Bet-David?

  Fantastic. Awesome.

• 2:18:16Speaker 05

  Great to see you. Thank you, Remy.

• 2:18:17Patrick Bet-David?

  Take care, everybody. Bye-bye, bye-bye.

• 2:18:19Speaker 05

  Hi, everyone. I'm Glenn Greenwald. I am a journalist who covers a lot of issues, including civil liberties and foreign policy, and the US security state, and domestic politics, and Brazil. Also, a lot of people don't know, but I know literally everything about tennis, everything, so you can ask me about that as well. And anyone who wants to ask me questions or connect with me, you can do so on Minect. I have a profile there, and I would love to hear from you.

• 2:18:47Speaker 02

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• 2:19:17Speaker 03

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