The Steam Machine is How Much?!

Marques, Andrew, and David jump right into this week talking about the Slate truck and whether they think it's actually going to ship. Then they discuss the Steam Machine and whether or not gamers can actually afford it. After that, they wrap it all up with the new Meta Glasses and some trivia. Enjoy! Links: Auto Focus - Slate truck video Dave2D - Steam machine Linus Tech Tips - Building a Steam Machine Nothing 4b tweet 9to5Mac - iOS 27 RCS Beta Verge - Steam Machine released Verge - Steam Machine not subsidized Verge - Meta launches Meta Glasses This episode brought to you by: Framer: https://www.framer.com/wave Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/wave Follow us on socials: Marques: https://twitter.com/MKBHD Andrew: https://www.instagram.com/andrew_manganelli/ David: https://www.instagram.com/davidimel/ Adam: https://www.instagram.com/parmesanpapi17/ Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin Waveform: Twitter: https://twitter.com/WVFRM Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Intro/Outro music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting? And what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from, but when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together, from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:21David Imel?

  You know that vanilla is actually one of the more complex flavors? There's like 30-something flavor things that go into vanilla.

• 1:26Andrew Manganelli?

  That sounds like something vanilla would say. Big vanilla. Big vanilla wants you to believe.

• 1:37Speaker 01

  Yo, what's up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marquez.

• 1:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm Andrew.

• 1:43David Imel?

  And I'm David.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  This week, we've got a bunch.

• 1:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Everyone's back.

• 1:46Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, everyone's back.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  Everyone is actually officially here. This is back to your regular, regularly scheduled programming. For real, for real, no cap on God. Actually, our last episode, in case you missed it, was a bonus episode where we explained tech, sorry, we explained the NBA in tech terms. But also kind of for some people, explain tech in NBA terms. If you're like, if you're up on ball and you wanted to know more about tech.

• 2:12David Imel?

  That's right. By the end of it, we were just talking ball.

• 2:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:14Andrew Manganelli?

  There's a great comment that's like, by the end of this video, I will either know about basketball or know nothing about technology.

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. It was great. I highly suggest you check it out if you haven't already. But now we're back to regular scheduled programming, which means we can talk all the news. The steam machine got a, got a launch and a price and we got a lot to say about that. Also Meta launching cheaper sunglasses without the rebrand branding and we got our first look at the $25,000 slate truck, which I have many thoughts on. So I also got to drive it, by the way. And the nothing phone 4B. So yeah, we'll talk about it all. But first, have you subscribed? See what I did there? Usually you expect me to go into the did you even test it? But I just wanted to make sure everyone's subscribed.

• 2:57Andrew Manganelli?

  If your subscribe button's red, right? What's it start out as? You should test it and see what happens.

• 3:03Speaker 01

  It changes color so much. On mobile, it might not even have a color anymore.

• 3:06David Imel?

  Like rainbow sometimes.

• 3:08Speaker 01

  I think it might be black now.

• 3:10Andrew Manganelli?

  We didn't test this intro, this CTA out very well.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  By the way, I hate the new mobile app not showing like counts anymore. I just want to say I hate it. I got it now. It's on my phone. We had this conversation. It's hit my phone. I hate it. Anyway. Make sure you subscribe to the waveform podcast. We appreciate that. Okay, now.

• 3:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Did they even test this? I've got this one. In fact, I am this one.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 3:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Because last week, I exclaimed from the rooftops that Android 17 is the best update ever because it got rid of Adaglance. It was gone already.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  I really doubled down on this too. You said, believe me, I would.

• 3:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Not just that.

• 3:50Speaker 01

  Tested this for a week.

• 3:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Next morning or Friday morning Rufus goes, the pod was up for 20 minutes and Rufus goes, there's a comment that says it was out in 16. I was like, no, it's not. I didn't even turn it around. And then I saw another one and I was like, oh my God.

• 4:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I remember we talked about this a while ago in one of the 16 betas that they were testing.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:12Andrew Manganelli?

  And I didn't download the beta, but I was like, it's gonna come. And I guess I just never looked again. And when I was looking through things in 17, that little [bleep] was just sitting there looking at me and I was like, can I get rid of you? And I could, and I assumed it was 17. I was wrong. I'm sorry. I will live in shame. We didn't change the name of the episode.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, you still can get rid of it, for sure.

• 4:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes, but yeah, I still like 17 so far, even though most of it is just getting rid of all the stuff they've screwed up in the past. And making some of the colors a little nicer.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  There's a gaming virtual touchscreen.

• 4:46Andrew Manganelli?

  And a bubble bar.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  And a bubble bar.

• 4:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Bubble bar.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  It's pretty nice, the bubble bar. My Android 17 top 5 features video will be live by the time this podcast goes up, so you'll see all of my thoughts. It is actually kind of confusing researching and going through the Android 17 features, because some of it is Android 17 features. Some of it is June pixel drop features that also make it to Android 16. So in the research, you have to be very careful about what stuff is new to the June pixel drop that's also going to 16 versus what's new specifically to 17. And there's also new stuff coming to 17 that's not here yet, that they talked about at I/O.

• 5:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Like Rambler and the Create My Widget with Natural Language and all that other stuff.

• 5:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  But anyway, 17 is out if you have a Pixel and you want to download it now. So go check it out.

• 5:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Alright.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  Okay, where should we start? Slate Truck feels like a good place to jump in.

• 5:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, we could start with that.

• 5:35David Imel?

  Let's do it.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  It was a $25,000 Pixel Truck.

• 5:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Less expensive. We're gonna talk about a lot of prices. Lots of prices this episode.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, lots of prices.

• 5:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Actually, almost everything has to do with prices.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Oof. So, this one is weirdly actually also kind of polarizing. So I'll jump into what the Slate Truck is and then what's polarizing about it.

• 5:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  So the Slate Truck, the idea of it is it's this ultra-modular electric mini pickup truck type of thing, where it comes as an ultra-stripped-down, super, super basic, like, no power windows, no speakers, just basic truck cabin. And then you can add on the modules that you want to build it up to exactly how well-equipped you want it to be. So the starting price of the blank slate, pun intended, is just south of $25,000 US. That'll get you rear wheel drive, 65 kilowatt hour battery, 180 ish horsepower. And so it'll do 060 in like eight seconds or something and then it'll get up to 90 miles an hour. It'll, I think it'll haul about 1,500 to 2,000 pounds, it'll tow 2,000 pounds.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  And it has a five foot bed, five foot long anyway, but it's narrower because it's a small truck.

• 6:43David Imel?

  Who can sleep in a five foot bed, damn.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  Well, it's definitely not a bed bed.

• 6:47Andrew Manganelli?

  David, he once slept in a coffin.

• 6:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, true. No, it's a, it's a small, it's a five foot long truck bed. It's a two seater at the front and it has a lockable front trunk. It's slate gray, no paint. You can wrap it with vinyl instead if you want to change the color. Steel wheels, 17 inch wheels, fixed suspension. I got to drive it. It was fairly firm, but overall like pretty compliant. We did some rougher roads and it was going over bigger bumps and it was fine. So yeah, it was just like zippy little truck that is extremely minimally equipped. And then tons and tons and tons of optional accessories that I haven't seen the price of all of them yet. But I've started to see prices of some of these accessories coming out. So it's this really basic blank slate.

• 7:32Speaker 01

  One of the craziest things is you can actually attach this like roll cage to the back and add seats to the back to create a five seater SUV.

• 7:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Like a Bronca.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  And you can do it like after you buy it, DIY. Like you can buy it as a pickup truck and then DIY bolt this thing in.

• 7:47Andrew Manganelli?

  I love the term DIY. I'll just throw it in there for like my kids in the backseat.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is definitely.

• 7:53Andrew Manganelli?

  It's there and ready.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  It's a concept. It's an, it's an interesting concept.

• 7:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I was thinking about Slate Truck this morning and I'm sure someone's made this analogy already, but it kind of makes me think of the Spirit Airlines of EVs because.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Basic economy.

• 8:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, you're just like, whoa, this ticket is so cheap. I'm basically losing money if I don't take it. It's like, I want to bring one, I want to bring my backpack up. I want to have a drink, upcharge. I want, I want a radio in my truck, upcharge. It's just like, really, yeah, seems so cheap off the riff. And then you're like, well, here's all the things I basically need to be comfortable on this flight.

• 8:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:29Andrew Manganelli?

  And it, it pops on. It's not a bad thing. Sometimes that is the best way to go.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. When you don't need the upcharge stuff. So that's what's, that's what's been polarizing about this vehicle. I'll just jump right into it. There's been a lot of commentary about it online. We published the autofocus video with all the stuff in it. People are saying both this is too expensive and this is too cheap.

• 8:49David Imel?

  Too cheap.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Like cheaper than expected and more expensive than expected. Both sides are coming out.

• 8:53David Imel?

  Well, it doesn't have ramen in it, so it can't be that expensive.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  So the side that's saying it's $25,000, it's too expensive, it should have been 20,000. Are most of the people looking at roughly equivalently priced gas trucks? Like if you go find the cheapest Ford Maverick, for example, starting somewhere under $30,000. It has a ton of these features included, like the lining of the truck bed and the power windows and the speakers and the screen and the radio, all this stuff that's included.

• 9:20David Imel?

  Airbags.

• 9:21Speaker 01

  That is fair. You get, okay. To be clear, the slate truck.

• 9:26David Imel?

  Seatbelt on airbags.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  The blank slate is five star safety rated estimated. They're, they're planning on actually finishing the testing, but they're saying it's going to be. Well, that's how, that's how this works before you get to.

• 9:37David Imel?

  And this is a five star podcast.

• 9:39Speaker 01

  So it is supposed to be a five star rated safety truck and it has all of the things required by law, like you actually have to have a backup camera required by law for new vehicles in the U.S.

• 9:49David Imel?

  Oh, wow.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  So it does have on that tiny little screen, a reverse camera.

• 9:52David Imel?

  That's cool.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  So obviously like things like airbags and the center console, all that stuff.

• 9:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Having, this is like the base, like we talk about cars base. This is like literally the base of it, which is funny, but in their little video they posted, I think it was this morning, it's showing everything that comes with it normal. And it's really funny watching them have to really pull for like what's on here, like locking frunk, you said that before, it's like.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:16Andrew Manganelli?

  I hope it locks. There's one thing here, cup holders as like a feature in this.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Thing about the locking front, half of the EVs that come out today don't have a frunk at all.

• 10:26Andrew Manganelli?

  That's, yeah.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  It's not nothing.

• 10:28Andrew Manganelli?

  But it's mostly sports cars.

• 10:28Andrew Manganelli?

  No, I'm not saying it's not nothing, it's just funny that it locks. Also, cup holders is on here twice.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 10:33David Imel?

  Wait, you're right.

• 10:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Two USB C ports.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  Yep, chargers on.

• 10:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. I don't, what's the latch system?

• 10:39Speaker 01

  The latch system is basically the rail system that lets you add things.

• 10:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought I just meant it had a latch on the back.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 10:45David Imel?

  Plywood sized bed.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, the thing is, is generally a piece of plywood is four by eight. And the, the thing is, is. It would have to be open, which is fine. That happens for some people or stacked up. The confusing thing is the wheelbase between the bed is like 42 inches and a general piece of plywood is 48 inches wide. So it would have, they made the top of the wheel well flat so it could sit on that, but then it's like teetering. I don't know. It's kind of weird. It kind of holds plywood.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. So yeah, it's, it's got the basic stuff and a lot of people are saying, well, I can get a Maverick and it'll have all that stuff. Plus all of the basics, like speakers, et cetera, for $28, $29,000.

• 11:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Back row seats.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  And they are correct about that.

• 11:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  But on the other hand, there are people saying, wow, $25,000, that makes this the cheapest new truck in the US. And it's the electric one. That's kind of crazy. All the most expensive vehicles are electric because the battery is the most expensive part. You'd expect the cheapest truck in the US to be a gas truck, but they've stripped out all this extra stuff. And then you can add back exactly what you need to make it functional to you. So yes, if you're thinking, I would get the Maverick because I need speakers, power windows, truck bed lining, all this other stuff. Then you might actually be crush shopping those things, but a lot of people, you imagine like someone's first EV for their kid.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  Like a fleet truck where they're just bringing around lawn mowers or random equipment and don't really need all the luxury electric. Like features you see in a lot of bells and whistles, they might not need to buy power windows and all this other stuff. So it is more economically viable to get the cheaper thing. So I see both sides of it. I'm very interested. I think it's going to be fascinating to see the prices for the modules and the vinyl and the customizations. And how much it costs to build the sleigh truck that you want.

• 12:36Andrew Manganelli?

  This screams to me like fleet of local pool cleaners or local pest control people, like things where like it probably would be beneficial to put a bunch of chemicals in a bed outside, potentially long things that have to hang at the back of the truck.

• 12:54Speaker 01

  Hoses.

• 12:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, but like, as long as you have AC, they probably have like headphones or something like get a bunch of those and like throw it in there and then get a little wrap on it that says.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Pool guys.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  Exactly. Get the vinyl wrap. Yeah. They're, they're, most of the time is not being spent in the truck. The truck is just going from location to location.

• 13:11Andrew Manganelli?

  And every single morning, you park it at the shop and plug it in and it starts every morning with a full tank of gas.

• 13:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Quote unquote.

• 13:17Speaker 01

  The 65 kilowatt hour battery getting 205 miles is actually almost 40 more miles than they originally were promising. They're, they're going to be somewhere like 160 miles of range or something. So 200 plus.

• 13:28David Imel?

  But now they're not offering the 240.

• 13:30Speaker 01

  Right. So they're all now down to one drivetrain option.

• 13:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  There's talks of like maybe an all wheel drive version of the future. They wouldn't tell me that that's real. So it's just this one, just real wheel drive, 200 miles of range. And it's actually pretty zippy. I'm not going to lie.

• 13:44David Imel?

  Really?

• 13:44Speaker 01

  I mean, you don't think about like zero to 60 in eight point seconds as a quote fast vehicle, but it's electric. It's all the torque all the time. And so you kind of zip around like a golf cart. It's fine.

• 13:53David Imel?

  205 miles seems kind of low.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  It is. It's also the cheapest truck in America. So it is like, okay, how much are you going to drive if you're doing the fleet thing? Are you driving around a neighborhood? Do you, do you put 200 miles on it in a day? Probably not.

• 14:06David Imel?

  This makes sense for like my dad, who's like a, he's like a carpenter and because he only really does work like

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Locally.

• 14:13David Imel?

  Locally.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:14David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 14:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:15Andrew Manganelli?

  You're not road tripping with this.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  No.

• 14:18Andrew Manganelli?

  And like 200 miles in a day is a pretty solid amount.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:21Andrew Manganelli?

  I think most Europeans would be like, you guys are insane if you think you're driving 200.

• 14:25David Imel?

  You drove across the country?

• 14:27Speaker 03

  Most Europeans are like, what the hell is a mile?

• 14:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. What's a truck?

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Yeah. 300 kilometers.

• 14:31David Imel?

  Lots of questions for these, these people.

• 14:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. I'm interested in the, so like, everyone's like, they did it. They did 250, or $25,000.

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:40Andrew Manganelli?

  There's even a, and they're like responding to it. There's a comment in YouTube that said, massive respect for the team for the base price. They said, we said it, we meant it. It's a, something I'm intrigued to see where it goes because they haven't fully built the factory out to produce these yet, right?

• 14:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:57Andrew Manganelli?

  So we're a while away from seeing them.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 14:59David Imel?

  This is what I was.

• 15:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Prices are fluctuating all the time.

• 15:02David Imel?

  The Rivian has changed a lot. Like before that came out, the price changed like three times.

• 15:06Andrew Manganelli?

  It changed and they had, and they tried to make everyone with reservations pay the new price and they got a ton of backlash and had to do that. So like. This has the interesting thought, though, of can they keep the base 25 even if prices change, but then change the prices to all of the accessories in there and make up some margins on that? Because I'm still super intrigued. How many people are going to buy this at 25 base space? And how many people are going to buy this at 30 to 40 with

• 15:35David Imel?

  Yeah, or more.

• 15:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Things they basically consider necessities.

• 15:38David Imel?

  To be fair, like, building out a car that has all the necessities, but it gets to be spec exactly how you want it.

• 15:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it's awesome.

• 15:44David Imel?

  It gets to look exactly how you want it. Like, it's the Lego of trucks. I think that's kinda cool. Yeah, Project Dora.

• 15:50Speaker 03

  I do feel like a lot of people like David's dad are gonna just order this base thing. Like, I know people that have small businesses, stuff. They're like, I don't care about if it has power windows or friggin'.

• 16:00David Imel?

  My dad's truck still has can crinkles.

• 16:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, like, they just drive around and they build [BLEEP]. And this is the cheapest truck in America right now.

• 16:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Even more so. They don't have to care. They don't have to care for their employees who are all driving it also. It's like,

• 16:12Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 16:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Not my problem.

• 16:14David Imel?

  I don't need AC.

• 16:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Play it. Pull the radio off your phone.

• 16:16David Imel?

  But it does come with AC. It does have AC.

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Which is, yeah, I do think that's a, it's a really good point that they don't have a finished factory. These are not actively being manufactured yet. So this is all technically TBD, which always makes me nervous with EVs. But they're saying they're gonna ship it this year. So in a couple of months, in quarter four, they wanna ship this.

• 16:35Andrew Manganelli?

  It's June. And they don't have a factory.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Well, they have a factory that's almost, they have a factory that has built the trucks that I've seen and driven, but these are like finishing, prototyping, like, almost done. And when they start to roll them off in quarter four, that'll be like final.

• 16:50David Imel?

  We'll see.

• 16:50Speaker 01

  So they're tooling, they're finishing, building the factory, and they have the space. They just need to get over that hump and actually ship the thing. So that's the TBD. That's the big asterisk. There is a tweet here from Speed Sport Life, someone who's in the maker of the, of the slate truck, who has seen basically some of the prices of the modules. So the wraps, for example, they start at $500 for a full vinyl wrap of certain, like, base colors. They'll go up to more expensive, like $1,500, $1,600 for a wrap. But that is just materials. You do the installation yourself.

• 17:24Andrew Manganelli?

  That's why, we were trying to figure out why it felt cheap.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  So then I go to the next page. There are the integrated speakers. So you can get the front left and front right for $150, and you can get the center channel for $250 more.

• 17:38David Imel?

  So there are no speakers by default?

• 17:40Speaker 01

  There are no speakers by default.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  So, you know, 200 bucks, I mean, that's, yeah, that's a big expensive Bluetooth speaker. I guess that's about in line.

• 17:48Speaker 03

  Does the wrap come with like a D brand kind of thing that you put over the car and just instantly rip it off?

• 17:55Speaker 01

  It is, obviously it'll be pre-cut. I imagine the hard part is actually installing it, like just getting it off the off the paper and like sticking it on the truck is, I mean, you can give it to a professional or you can do it yourself. Depends on how good of a job you want it to be.

• 18:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:09Speaker 01

  Uh, it's a big task.

• 18:10Andrew Manganelli?

  If you have to bring it to a professional already, I would just bring it to a professional and get the wrap there and not deal with.

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Well, they're going to charge you for the materials that they buy and the labor.

• 18:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, but.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  So if you provide the materials, that's, that's way less that you're paying.

• 18:25Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know the breakdown of what's materials versus labor, but I always, I assumed a wrap place, most of that was labor.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Uh, probably most of it is labor, but you still do, they go out and acquire.

• 18:36David Imel?

  There's still a middleman for the materials.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  And so they have to upcharge you for that as well.

• 18:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  So, yeah, it's at least cheaper to, but I imagine a lot of people will try to do it themselves here.

• 18:44David Imel?

  And, yeah.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Uh, there's also a, a page here for the truck lining. You can get a more durable, versatile truck lining, $750 if you plan on.

• 18:54David Imel?

  What is a lining?

• 18:55Speaker 01

  It says.

• 18:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Like bed liner?

• 18:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, bed liner. Uh, one bed boss structural bed floor with integrated tie downs installs without drilling, five feet by five feet. Uh, yeah.

• 19:05Andrew Manganelli?

  That's all right. I want my tie downs to be installed without drilling.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  I think the bed, the bed liner is installed without drilling and then you tie things down to the bed liner.

• 19:14Andrew Manganelli?

  That's installed without drilling?

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:16Speaker 03

  That sounds scary.

• 19:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I know I'm just missing something, but that's.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Latches. There are latches.

• 19:21Speaker 04

  Can I ask a question about this truck that I, I'm confused about and I would.

• 19:24Speaker 03

  Go to Europe for two weeks and now we hate trucks.

• 19:28David Imel?

  Look, Ellis has always hated trucks, okay?

• 19:31Speaker 04

  I also want to say when I was in Wales. One of the most beautiful places I've ever been in my life. Shocking amount of trucks. I had always heard that it was very hard to get and they, none of them had like F150 sized beds, but they had crew cabs and were sizable vehicles. And I was like, I was always told that these were not here and there they were. Thank you, Wales. How do you wire this truck in a factory? That's what I'm really confused about. Like, for example, so there's like, like I, I understand the idea of power windows optional, right? Because those are motors that you have to put in and install. That's great. But is the wiring already going through the whole system? Or it's the same thing with the speakers.

• 20:15Speaker 04

  It's like, I understand in theory that you could put in and take out speakers, but does the, is there an amp? Are they active speakers? The amp is in the speakers and then you just run power to them. How does the audio signal get, is it wireless? And it's like, yeah, a part of it makes me wonder like if there are things in this car that are actually cheaper for them to put in because they have to already run the wiring all through the vehicle in the factory? Or there's obviously something I'm missing here.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  I was told, so I was told that there are pins and there are, there is wiring, pre-existing wiring for power and data in certain places. So for example, one of the speakers is an, it's a small like JBL Bluetooth speaker.

• 20:53Speaker 04

  Right, I saw.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  And all it needs is power. So you buy, it's already wired for power to the pins. And if you get that accessory, you pop it onto that pin and then everything else for the speaker is in that speaker that you bought.

• 21:03Speaker 04

  Interesting.

• 21:03Speaker 01

  I think some other accessories are requiring pins that are again, in certain locations that have data and power running to them already.

• 21:11Speaker 04

  Interesting.

• 21:11Speaker 01

  There is no screen option. There's just like the screen behind the steering wheel, which is your speed, your range and your odometer, basic stuff, your reverse camera. And so they don't like have wiring for display or anything else of that sort. You just get a mount for either a phone or an iPad.

• 21:27Speaker 04

  Pricing this thing from the business's perspective must have been such an interesting challenge because you don't want to make the blank slate. Too expensive, but at the same time, it does feel like at a certain point, you may have to charge people for things that they won't use, i.e. the wire running through the frame. And I, I don't know how expensive it is to run wiring through a car frame. That could be like a, a non-factor.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  I think in mass, the goal, I mean, they've preached about how many pre-orders they have and how much volume they want to do. I think the goal is likely just that the bigger your scale, the lower the cost of that incremental wiring.

• 22:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:03Speaker 01

  And so you can still sell something cheaper if they don't use.

• 22:06David Imel?

  Having one SKU and making a zillion of them is always cheaper. Well, not always, but generally cheaper than having multiple SKUs and making less of each of them. So.

• 22:16Speaker 04

  Shout out to the industrial engineers at Slate, because these are tricky, interesting, thinky problems that would make my brain hurt.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  And the, the final product.

• 22:25Speaker 04

  So good to have you back.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  The final product I think is, is pretty cool. Do you guys think the aesthetics are, are?

• 22:31David Imel?

  I like it.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  I think they're kind of nice.

• 22:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  There are definitely people who think it's ugly as well.

• 22:36David Imel?

  I like the Bronco looking one.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  But I think it looks kind of.

• 22:38Andrew Manganelli?

  I think some of the, yeah, the like, the top off backseats, like old Bronco roll cage kind of thing is sick. I think this is also cool because like, there are lots of people who don't want a truck as their daily driver, but want something with a bed. Like my brother in law has like a little, a 1992 F-150 that like only half the gas tank fills up. And that's because like, once every month, he needs to like, like pick some crap up and like move it around. And like, it just rots pretty much. So like, having something that's really cheap as a base and who cares? Like, that might be the thing I go pick up that crap on Facebook Marketplace with, or get the dryer from Home Depot and bring it home. Like.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  It's obviously bigger than like a Japanese K key truck, K truck, however you'd say, but at least it's smaller than like a Rivian. You know what I mean?

• 23:30David Imel?

  Yeah. It's funny is the length of the bed is the same as the Rivian. So it's like a five foot long bed, but it is, it is narrower because the truck is narrower.

• 23:40Speaker 03

  You know what's funny about this? When they launched it, or not launched because it hasn't launched it, when they announced it. I was super excited for it. And then the more time that went by, I was like, I don't know. Like, I don't know if they're gonna be able to hit the, the price.

• 23:52Speaker 01

  We still don't know.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  We still don't know, but now that it's like a thing, you went and you saw the car. I feel like they might do it.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  They had that price up there in like shiny numbers. They put lights on that price. They were like, it is definitely 25 grand.

• 24:06David Imel?

  We've seen that before.

• 24:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I was gonna say, I like, like trying not to be biased. I think it's really sick. Yeah. I mean, I'm not gonna go spend $25,000 on a secondary car. I ain't that kind of guy.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  You already got an R2 on order, right?

• 24:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, I think this is really cool.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  For 40,000.

• 24:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm going to be extremely skeptical of this because how many trucks have we seen that are coming out end of this year for the last five years?

• 24:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I feel like there's, there's like stages of how close to release are you? And we've seen lots and lots and lots of cool ideas. Everyone from Faraday Future to the Telo Truck, to the Aptera, to this, have all gotten to the stage of showing it to us.

• 24:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  And even letting us drive it.

• 24:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:44Speaker 01

  And that's it. They never actually ship one and sell one. So I am, my fingers are crossed. I like the idea. I'm rooting for it, just like I'm rooting for a lot of the others. But it is true that we've seen many get this far and not make it.

• 24:57David Imel?

  Having been through the 13 years of drama with my Streetly Manifesto album getting delayed.

• 25:01Andrew Manganelli?

  I didn't bring it up this time.

• 25:02David Imel?

  These things are not out until they're out. So we'll see.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  Vaporware until shipped.

• 25:07David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 25:10Speaker 04

  Didn't it come halfway out?

• 25:12David Imel?

  Came halfway out yesterday.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Halfway out.

• 25:14Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought it was only two songs.

• 25:15David Imel?

  It's two more songs. They released three demos a year ago. They mixed the demos, finally, and then they released two more songs. So now there are five songs out, but it's half of the album. And then it's half.

• 25:29Speaker 04

  So it's not out unless it's out.

• 25:31David Imel?

  It's not out until the whole album.

• 25:32Speaker 01

  So that's more out than like the Roadster. It's like, yeah, for sure.

• 25:36David Imel?

  It's more out than not.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  For sure. Yes.

• 25:38David Imel?

  But it's not full.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  And they're bangers, to be clear, only.

• 25:41David Imel?

  Which gives you hope that the rest will be good.

• 25:43Speaker 01

  The rest is gonna be a grace from God.

• 25:46David Imel?

  Okay.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  I guarantee you.

• 25:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Wow.

• 25:48Speaker 01

  It's like playing, I don't know if there's a good analogy.

• 25:51Speaker 04

  It's like if the Roadster's seat came out.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  And you could buy it?

• 25:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  And sit in it?

• 25:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 25:55Speaker 01

  More than the seat. I would say.

• 25:58David Imel?

  Hmm.

• 25:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Didn't you say there's a-

• 25:59Speaker 01

  All four wheels-

• 26:00David Imel?

  The car needs to work in order to drive it, whereas half of Australia's manifesto album is still part of-

• 26:05Speaker 01

  Okay, it would be like, it would be like if the roadster came out-

• 26:07Andrew Manganelli?

  With no battery.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  But it only had like a fraction of the battery.

• 26:10David Imel?

  Yes.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  And one of the motors worked.

• 26:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Isn't that how-

• 26:13Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 26:13David Imel?

  That's a good analogy.

• 26:14Andrew Manganelli?

  And it could only turn right.

• 26:16David Imel?

  Yes. That's how I feel right now. It's still great. I'm still happy.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:21David Imel?

  Uh, but it's not out until it's fully out.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  It's planning albums in tech terms.

• 26:26David Imel?

  I-

• 26:27Speaker 01

  In car-

• 26:28David Imel?

  It's been delayed for 13 years, Mark.

• 26:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Is it their conspiracy that it's-

• 26:31David Imel?

  A wee child.

• 26:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Gonna be on the GTA 6 radio, so it can't come out till GTA 6 comes out?

• 26:36David Imel?

  Exactly. It won't be out till November. Yeah.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  That is funny.

• 26:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Speaking of GTA.

• 26:39David Imel?

  Speaking of GTA. We got a price.

• 26:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 26:43David Imel?

  Eighty dollars, which is less, there were, there've been a lot of bets, by the way, about whether or not GTA would be over a hundred dollars, because they've been working on it for so long that-

• 26:52Speaker 01

  Gamesters can't afford this.

• 26:54David Imel?

  Yeah. I'm sorry, if you're a gamer, you cannot afford this. I'm sorry. Um.

• 27:01David Imel?

  Uh, anyway, there's a deluxe edition that's a hundred dollars.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 27:05David Imel?

  Whether, well, I'm assuming it just comes with extra digital assets or something.

• 27:11Andrew Manganelli?

  It delays it six more weeks.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  It repurchases microtransactions.

• 27:15David Imel?

  I'm sure there will still be DLC on top of the deluxe edition, because they gotta juice it.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:21David Imel?

  Um, but yeah, I mean, they say that it is now coming out in November. If you buy the-

• 27:26Speaker 01

  GTA?

• 27:27David Imel?

  Yeah, GTA.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 27:28David Imel?

  Yeah, they say.

• 27:29Speaker 03

  Apparently, according to this Reddit comment, so take it as you will. Uh, there's a bunch of in-game stores and vehicle mod, mod shops that are locked unless you have the ultimate edition.

• 27:40David Imel?

  That is dumb. That is so dumb.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  Come on, it's GTA. The whole point is, okay.

• 27:44David Imel?

  I'm so tired.

• 27:45Speaker 03

  It's a Reddit comment, so I'm not sure.

• 27:46Andrew Manganelli?

  If it was real GTA, you could steal from GTA?

• 27:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 27:51David Imel?

  Wait.

• 27:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Just hold a gun up to the DLC?

• 27:54David Imel?

  This is not too different from the slate truck, is all I'm saying.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  No, the slate truck is, I think it's big difference. In the slate truck, you can add any accessory at any time, at any point after you buy it.

• 28:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  But it sounds like with GTA, there will be parts that are locked out if you start at the wrong base tier.

• 28:10David Imel?

  I almost guarantee you they'll allow you to upgrade to the ultimate.

• 28:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh yeah, I'm sure you could just-

• 28:14David Imel?

  For an extra twenty to thirty dollars.

• 28:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Just tear it and lock it?

• 28:17David Imel?

  They might charge even more.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 28:18David Imel?

  Just to make you want to buy the ultimate edition upfront.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  Fair enough.

• 28:22David Imel?

  Yeah. So people are excited for that. I personally don't care at all. Uh, cuz I've never played a GTA game, but I'm excited for all you people.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  It's funny, I also have never played GTA game, but I'm really looking forward to it.

• 28:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, you're looking for, are you gonna play it?

• 28:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm gonna play it.

• 28:35David Imel?

  Oh, wow.

• 28:36Speaker 01

  It seems like a fun game.

• 28:37Andrew Manganelli?

  We need your review.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  Only from trailers, only from trailers.

• 28:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, you do know you could play the other ones while you wait?

• 28:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

• 28:45David Imel?

  GTA V can play on your freaking refrigerator.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, GTA V's been out for so long, but I, it's almost like backyard baseball where it's like, I could either, if I start getting my fix now, I'm gonna be waiting for GTA like even more like on the seat of my pants, so I'm just gonna wait. I'm just gonna not play GTA until six comes out and then have a good time. It'll be fun.

• 29:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm excited for it because, um, when the first one came out, my now brother-in-law played it for so long that his, he was in college and his car got stolen, but he didn't know it was stolen because he was playing the game for like three days straight. And then went out and was like, where's my car?

• 29:22Speaker 04

  He got grand theft auto.

• 29:25Andrew Manganelli?

  So now I wanna see if this is going to be a pattern.

• 29:28David Imel?

  That's legit.

• 29:29Andrew Manganelli?

  If somehow it will get stolen again.

• 29:31David Imel?

  Your grand theft auto, your grand theft auto. There are many people trying to take like an entire week off work for this game, so.

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 29:38David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  I can confirm, according to this article from Radio Times, the Reddit comment was correct.

• 29:43David Imel?

  About what?

• 29:43Speaker 03

  There will be certain things that are locked away, unless you get the ultimate edition, like certain locations in-game.

• 29:48David Imel?

  Locations?

• 29:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Locations?

• 29:50Speaker 03

  Vehicle mod shops, classic car collections, certain vehicles.

• 29:55David Imel?

  I think they wanted to charge a hundred dollars, but they were like, we can make it technically not a hundred dollars if we do this.

• 30:01Speaker 04

  This is freaking grand theft Fortnite over here, like.

• 30:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, but no, my thing is, I don't care about stylist or like, uh, visual skins costing us your money when the game's free. Fortnite is free.

• 30:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 30:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Let them charge for things that are not competitive advantage. Dota, League of Legends.

• 30:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 30:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Valorant.

• 30:20David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 30:21Andrew Manganelli?

  If you charge eighty dollars and then they're like. You have to pay more money for skins?

• 30:27Speaker 01

  Or locations, like your friends go to a new location and you can't go because you bought the base version.

• 30:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, if you think we're making fun of Android people in the US, wait till we make fun of the regular GTA.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  The $80 GTA people?

• 30:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, sorry Stevie, you can hang out with us. We're going to the down deluxe edition.

• 30:44Speaker 01

  This game is $100. Like just it like nobody, I don't, I don't know. I don't think anyone's gonna pay the $80. I think they just did it because they knew they'd get a lot of backlash if it was $100.

• 30:55Speaker 03

  Listen, Super Mario was like 80 bucks, wasn't it? GTA couldn't charge whatever they want.

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Donkey, no, it was a Mario Kart, old Mario Kart World was $80. Yeah, this is true.

• 31:09Speaker 03

  Worth it.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  $80, especially with this much anticipation, I think, is probably.

• 31:14Speaker 03

  I'm honestly shocked that it's not more.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm unfortunately shocked that it's not more.

• 31:19Speaker 03

  It's fairly standard pricing. It's expensive as hell, but it's like.

• 31:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Believe it's.

• 31:23Speaker 03

  I think it could have been 100 and it was.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  NBA 2K comes out like every year and it's always $80. Sometimes it's 100. Yeah. And there's like premium versions that are 100 plus. Yeah.

• 31:33Speaker 03

  And to make the graphics like 1% better.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  Not even 1% better. It used to be like a big difference, like between 13, 14 and 15. It's like, oh, okay. I can see that the animations are smoother. Now the difference between like this second to, well, the roster update is a software update over the air. So you don't even need the roster update. It's literally like a new, a new game mode, better, like smoother animations and controls. And in the name of realism, that's like kinda cool, but it's, it's stopped improving at such a rate that it would justify like buying a $100 game every year.

• 32:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  So I think the last one I bought was 22, maybe 23, 24.

• 32:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Wow. You don't even know ball.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Well, I have the new rosters. It just goes to the new, the old game. So I just, yeah, whatever.

• 32:14Speaker 03

  I'm surprised they even like push it to the old game and not just like force.

• 32:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is pretty important.

• 32:20Speaker 03

  I also haven't purchased the 2K on launch in a while. I always wait for it to go on sale now.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And I always buy the base one.

• 32:27Speaker 04

  We need basketball to get really, really popular in Europe so that the EU puts a stop to this. They're the only ones that can stop the 2KP.

• 32:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Only EU can stop EA.

• 32:38Speaker 01

  No, it's actually, it's not actually EA, it's Take-Two is the publisher.

• 32:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Can we just pretend it's EA because that sounded funny?

• 32:44Speaker 04

  Well, it's funnier because they also do GTA, so it's the same.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  GTA EA. Nice.

• 32:50Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Speaking of pricing.

• 32:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  We got another device announcement, another tech announcement. It's a new Nothing phone, Nothing phone for B.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, interesting. So we had the Nothing phone for A. What's the Nothing phone for B, you may be wondering? Well, it's perfect because somebody who works for Nothing on Twitter was able to explain very clearly what it is. He says, this is from Acus Evangelides. What does the B stand for? Nothing. It's simply a continuation of our naming system. Numbers represent generations while letters indicate different product segments.

• 33:29Speaker 04

  No way.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  So the A series has been our best-selling smartphone line, bringing the best of Nothing's design innovation while focusing on features that matter most. The B series builds on the success of the A series by expanding into a new segment while maintaining a clear product hierarchy. The A series remains our most premium line below our flagship products, which don't carry a letter designation. This avoids overusing suffixes and provides a clearer naming structure as the portfolio expands. Hope this is clear.

• 34:02David Imel?

  How to say Nothing by saying a lot of words? I don't know what that means at all.

• 34:07Andrew Manganelli?

  It means it's cheaper.

• 34:08David Imel?

  On their essay.

• 34:09Andrew Manganelli?

  It's cheaper.

• 34:09Speaker 01

  This is, yeah, this is, this is marketing speak for, I don't want to say the word cheaper, but I want to effectively communicate that this is just a different price tier in the same product line.

• 34:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  Cheaper.

• 34:21Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so, this guy's never posted anything worthwhile on Twitter, but it's just like.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  It's marketing, it's just marketing.

• 34:27Andrew Manganelli?

  It's insane marketing because it's, it's, what's funny is he's right. This naming scheme makes perfect.

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally.

• 34:34Andrew Manganelli?

  It's arguably the best naming scheme out of maybe anything because it's not confusing.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:39Andrew Manganelli?

  It makes sense, but like, oh my God, this is a convoluted tweet.

• 34:43David Imel?

  There's a lot of words to say very little.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the, when I review the last phones from nothing, I made the point that they kind of can't make a flagship phone at this point because they don't have high enough volume. They don't sell enough phones to like get the low enough part prices to actually make money on a flagship phone. Or even compete against the Samsungs of the world. So they just don't do it.

• 35:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  This is maybe more proof of me being right because they add to their lineup in the opposite direction and make probably a compellingly priced phone. I haven't actually learned much else about the phone.

• 35:17David Imel?

  They don't know anything about it yet.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  But yeah, I agree with my old take that they are not planning to make a flagship phone.

• 35:22David Imel?

  Something we do know is that they're cancelling the Nothing Phone 3, 3, 4, 4A Pro? 4A Pro? They're cancelling, sorry, not Nothing Phone, the CMF Phone.

• 35:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:33David Imel?

  Okay, 3A Pro. 3A Pro. Okay. They're cancelling.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:37David Imel?

  And in, this is just, this is just my theory. The theory that they're, the reason they're making the Nothing Phone 3B.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  4B.

• 35:46David Imel?

  4B.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 35:48David Imel?

  Good at this.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 35:49David Imel?

  Uh, is that they said the reason they were cancelling the CMF Phone was because the RAM would have been half the price of the phone. And they just cannot make it at that price. So now, the Nothing Phones have always been more expensive than the CMF Phones, right? So if you make a cheaper Nothing Phone, you're basically hitting the price tier where it's barely marginally able, you're able to make a phone at that price. Whereas a CMF Phone could not do that. So my theory is that they're just making it under the Nothing moniker because Nothing kind of demands the, the higher price than CMF.

• 36:22Speaker 01

  Makes sense.

• 36:22David Imel?

  Which, we've been over this multiple times, Nothing was supposed to be the budget brand and then CMF was the budget, budget brand. And then Nothing has the budget phones from Nothing and now there's the budget, budget, budget.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Cause Nothing had flagships and then they had the A Series, which was the budget of the budget, but not to budget, cause that would be CMF. So like the budget of the budget, but not the budget of the budget of the budget.

• 36:40David Imel?

  Yes, yes.

• 36:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 36:41David Imel?

  And now they've got the B Series, which is the budget of the budget.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  B is clearly for budget.

• 36:44David Imel?

  No, no, no, no.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  But, but not CMF, which is the budget.

• 36:47David Imel?

  No, the A Series is the most premium line below their flagship. That is the greatest line in history.

• 36:54Speaker 01

  When you're not allowed, when you're not allowed to say cheaper, that's what you end up saying.

• 36:58David Imel?

  Which makes.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  It's our best below our best.

• 37:02Speaker 01

  Are you getting it? Yeah.

• 37:05David Imel?

  It's so we get it.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  That's me when I haven't taken care of myself in a while. I'm the best I've ever been, except for when I'm at my best.

• 37:14Andrew Manganelli?

  It's funny, too, because if you haven't had me at my best, you don't deserve me at my best.

• 37:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Nothing could use the word cheap better than any other company out there because Nothing's fandom appreciates a budget phone.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is so funny that just to say like

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Up front.

• 37:32Andrew Manganelli?

  This is cheaper is a banger tweet.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  I'm guessing they have like a rulebook where they're not allowed to say cheap, budget, or even acknowledge less expensive.

• 37:43David Imel?

  Because other people have a different definition of what that means.

• 37:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:46David Imel?

  And I think that even Nothing making a cheaper Nothing phone, a lot of people are gonna still think it's too expensive. Very competitive markets, so we'll see. I mean, no CMFone, I guess we'll probably get one eventually once OpenAI collapses as a company. You know?

• 38:04Speaker 01

  What makes you think that's gonna happen?

• 38:07David Imel?

  Maybe Sam Altman will carry all the RAM over to Nothing at some point and be like, here you go, we're not a company anymore.

• 38:14Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't need this anymore.

• 38:15David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't need this anymore.

• 38:16Andrew Manganelli?

  He's gonna put it on Facebook Marketplace.

• 38:18David Imel?

  All right, I got one last quick little thing before we take a break. Just very excited about RCS as usual, you know? Very good, Rich Communication Services. iOS 27 Beta 2 just dropped yesterday.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  Hell, yeah.

• 38:31David Imel?

  Or maybe two days ago, I don't remember.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  Two days ago.

• 38:33David Imel?

  It did fix a lot of the bugs that I had in iOS in the Beta 1, which is good. But one thing that they added, which is very exciting, is that they upgraded to RCS 2.7. Not fully yet, they added a couple of features with it, but part of the RCS 2.7's standard is the ability to edit and unsend messages. So now.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 38:58David Imel?

  Yeah, I know.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

• 39:00David Imel?

  I'm thinking the European Union is on my side today.

• 39:03Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 39:04David Imel?

  I'm sticking with Android, baby.

• 39:08David Imel?

  So yeah, now you'll be, when you're using RCS with Android phones, you'll be able to edit and unsend messages. Brings it a lot closer to the feature parity with iMessage that everyone wants. Obviously, you know, you're not going to have the iMessage integrations like Apple Cash and stuff like that. But we are very close to the color being the only major differentiating factor, which I think will still matter to people unfortunately.

• 39:31Speaker 03

  No Apple Cash? How the hell am I supposed to split my receipt bills?

• 39:33David Imel?

  I know, I know.

• 39:34Speaker 01

  As soon as I ask Siri to do stuff.

• 39:36David Imel?

  Exactly. Um, so yeah, that's exciting. RCS is getting better. I'm very excited about that.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm looking forward to whatever the next thing is they bolt onto the side of iMessage that will not make it through RCS.

• 39:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  Cause right now it's the color, obviously, but it's like the stickers.

• 39:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  Apple Cash, whatever, whatever games people play in iMessage.

• 39:56David Imel?

  Genmoji.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  Genmoji. They're, they're in there. There's some games in there.

• 40:00David Imel?

  There are some games in there.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  But yeah.

• 40:02David Imel?

  I don't know if people use them, but. We're getting closer. I, right now RCS still only works for me like half the time. It like randomly breaks and sends as SMS.

• 40:12Speaker 03

  Dude, like twice so far, you've messaged me on WhatsApp, like, are you getting my texts?

• 40:16David Imel?

  You don't even want to see Adam and I's messages. Half of them is just like, not sent, not sent, not sent. I'm just, it's depressing. But one day we'll be in our protocol heaven.

• 40:25Speaker 03

  I literally can't communicate right now, but one day it will all be better.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  That sounds like a him problem, you know? Cause you change phones every five seconds.

• 40:34David Imel?

  That's true. It's, it's actually.

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Oh wait, aren't you using a phone that doesn't have like half the bands in the US?

• 40:39Speaker 03

  No, no, I didn't switch. I wanted to.

• 40:41David Imel?

  Got an Oppo anymore? What do you want? What do you want right now?

• 40:44Speaker 03

  Uh, still my S26 Ultra. I was trying the Oppo, but then I, I was like, five minutes from fully switching over the Google 5 SIM and everything. And I was like, maybe this isn't a good weekend to do this. I had a very busy weekend. So let me wait.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  I would advise not to do that if you have a lot of communication needs.

• 41:00David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, after the break, we're going to talk about probably the most controversial thing we've ever talked about on this podcast. And I think no matter what we say, we're going to get canceled. So get excited.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  Buckle up.

• 41:11David Imel?

  Buckle up.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  Oh, I forgot about that. I forgot there was trivia on this show.

• 41:17Speaker 04

  All right, trivia, and I'm back.

• 41:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  With the six pack.

• 41:20Speaker 04

  Real Ellis trivia in the house. Marquez, I'm glad to hear that you said you are going to be sticking with Android, because today's first question is for the Android sickos in the room, okay?

• 41:31Speaker 01

  It's me, the Android sicko.

• 41:33Speaker 04

  Exactly. So we all know, prior to Android 10, they were all desserts. They weren't just desserts, they were desserts in alphabetical order. After Android 10, they switched to numbers. However, the internal code names for the dessert, for the operating systems stayed as desserts.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  Now, keep going.

• 41:55Speaker 04

  Keep going. We're all on the same page here?

• 41:56Andrew Manganelli?

  We are. We're, yeah.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  I may have said this exact word in the video. Go ahead, keep going.

• 42:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Keep going.

• 42:02Speaker 04

  Which Android version's number was the one where they reset the alphabet?

• 42:08Speaker 01

  I got you. I got you.

• 42:11Speaker 04

  Someone didn't listen to last week's episode. No, I was in Wales. I was listening to the beautiful buying of sheep next to my bed.

• 42:19David Imel?

  We had this question last week.

• 42:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, not quite. Very similar to the, led us to a conversation.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  It is possible to get this wrong.

• 42:27Andrew Manganelli?

  I probably still will get this wrong, even though I just re-listened to us all talking about it.

• 42:32David Imel?

  You're saying which is the one where they?

• 42:34Speaker 04

  Which is the one where they reset the alphabet?

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. As we know, they got to Android Q, and then they kept going with the code names. Those code names at some point reset the alphabet. By the way, by the way, look.

• 42:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Ellis does not know about this part. Can I tell the story before? What were you gonna say? Can I tell the story?

• 42:54Speaker 01

  Go ahead.

• 42:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay. This is partially my fault.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  How the hell would you spell it?

• 42:57David Imel?

  The Dunk on David.

• 42:58Andrew Manganelli?

  We were talking about the letters, and David guessed the dessert was tiramisu. And I think it would have been out there, but then I said, David, how'd you spell that? And if, correct me if I'm wrong, I believe it was T-I-E-R-R-I-S.

• 43:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I E U?

• 43:16Speaker 04

  I don't know.

• 43:17Andrew Manganelli?

  And then he said, and I was like, how'd you spell that? He's like, tiramisu is 100% French. And that was probably 20% of our comments last week.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  Does it not sound like a French word?

• 43:28Speaker 04

  I'll give it to you.

• 43:29Andrew Manganelli?

  It kind of.

• 43:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  It sounds French to me. I got a lot of people tweeting at me saying, it's Italian.

• 43:35Andrew Manganelli?

  It was, it was so intense that I got people tweeting and commenting at me saying, you call yourself Italian, but you didn't tell him that it's definitely Italian. So I got.

• 43:46Speaker 04

  Should I make the question harder?

• 43:47Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no, no.

• 43:48Speaker 04

  Ask her what the dessert, the first dessert is when they reset it?

• 43:52Speaker 01

  Sure. We have, we could have like bonus points or whatever.

• 43:55Speaker 04

  All right.

• 43:55Speaker 01

  All right.

• 43:56Speaker 04

  Two points.

• 43:57Andrew Manganelli?

  It'll be so funny when we get it all wrong.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  So which?

• 43:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Which one reset it?

• 44:01Speaker 04

  What number? And what was that one's internal code name?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  What number?

• 44:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, sorry. Sorry, I was amongst.

• 44:07Andrew Manganelli?

  No, that's okay.

• 44:08Speaker 04

  The sheep.

• 44:09Andrew Manganelli?

  How dare you, but.

• 44:10Speaker 01

  Our viewers, our viewers are yelling into their screens right now, the answer, because they already know it, but if they don't, we'll have the answers at the end like usual. We'll be right back.

• 44:27Speaker 01

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• 45:11Speaker 01

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• 45:15Speaker 01

  Head over to Shopify.com/waveform to start your free trial today. That's right, you can start your free trial at Shopify.com/waveform. That's Shopify.com/waveform. Support for the show comes from Framer. The future of website building is one that seamlessly blends all of your tools that we have available, and you should use a platform that has it all and stays useful even after you launch. That's what Framer is. Framer is the AI website builder that helps creators, teams, and businesses ship production-ready sites faster than ever while getting every detail right. You're able to prompt, inspect, edit, and publish in one place at a whole new pace. On Framer, agents and humans work in tandem, so agents bring speed and scale, while people bring taste and judgment and control.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  And that's what all takes place in the same workspace where the real site is designed, managed, reviewed, and published. Everyone's ideas land on the canvas, stay editable, and can be published when the team is ready. Framer is an enterprise-level solution. Thousands of businesses from early-stage startups to Fortune 500s are choosing to build their websites in Framer, where changes take minutes instead of days. Learn how you can get more out of your site from a Framer specialist or get started building for free today at framer.com/wave for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. That's framer.com/wave. Rules and restrictions may apply. Support for the show comes from Pipe Drive. Sales teams spend up to 50% of their time on admin work rather than selling and building relationships and closing deals. They could really use a tool that covers all the admin stuff.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  That way, sales teams can actually focus on the work they were hired to do. That's where Pipe Drive comes in. It's an intelligent, AI-powered sales CRM loved by growing sales teams. Their new meeting intelligence feature, like an AI note taker, are built right into the CRM. Pipe Drive automatically pulls deal history, email records, and previous conversations. You can walk into a call already briefed. During meetings, Pipe Drive's AI note taker records and takes notes, so you can stay in the conversation. Then it turns those notes into accurate, auto-drafted CRM updates, ready for you to review and approve. The end result: less admin, more selling. Switch to a CRM built by salespeople for salespeople and join the over 100,000 companies already using Pipe Drive. Our link gets you an exclusive 30-day free trial instead of the usual 14-day trial, so no credit card or payment needed.

• 47:28Speaker 01

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• 47:36Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, welcome back to a little section we like to call... People who say they're gamers that aren't really gamers talking about games.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  Nice.

• 47:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Just to get it out of the way.

• 47:46Speaker 01

  Okay. Gamers can't.

• 47:47Andrew Manganelli?

  I disagree. I think David and I play quite a few games, but according to the comments, we have no idea what we're talking about.

• 47:52Speaker 01

  I will, I'll own it up. I'll own up to it right now. I play games once or twice a month. Not a huge gamer.

• 47:59David Imel?

  It's not bad.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  So you guys should tell me about the Steam machine because all I really know, I've seen some videos and I've heard a lot of people saying, wow, you should do a video of the Steam machine. I haven't because I'm not super interested, but also I know what Steam is. And so I imagine that a Steam machine is a very specific thing, but you tell me.

• 48:15Andrew Manganelli?

  It runs on Steam.

• 48:16Speaker 01

  It runs Steam.

• 48:17David Imel?

  This is like round.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  Oh, runs on Steam is crazy.

• 48:19David Imel?

  It's like round three of them trying to release this.

• 48:21Speaker 01

  Is it basically just Valve decided to make some hardware because they make the Steam store already and they're like, oh, well, we should sell a gaming PC.

• 48:27David Imel?

  There are so many things to this.

• 48:29Andrew Manganelli?

  The reason for it, I think, makes perfect sense.

• 48:31Speaker 01

  Tell me about it.

• 48:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Steam is generally a PC gaming marketplace, right? It's usually PC games. Steam Deck changed that a bit, let handheld gaming come on to the, you know, Steam marketplace. But really, the, the hot thing people have wanted for so long is I have this massive Steam library, but the benefit of consoles is it just plugs into my living room TV. I get to sit on the couch and use a controller.

• 48:57Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 48:57Andrew Manganelli?

  It has a lot of, it's like very cohesive with all of that. People like consoles because of that, but console wars means we have a lot of exclusivity. We have a lot of different things in that sense.

• 49:08David Imel?

  Xbox only titles.

• 49:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, you're really locked in, like Steam is on your computer. You own your computer. You're not like renting, like.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Steam is what people like for games.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  I can see where this is going.

• 49:18David Imel?

  Also for the last like 15 years, there's Steam sales in the fall, there's Steam sales in the summer, there's Steam sales in the spring. The amount of Steam games I own that I have never once launched, Valve knows how to make you buy things that you will never use.

• 49:30Andrew Manganelli?

  I bet most Steam users have 50% of their library they haven't opened yet.

• 49:34Speaker 01

  Yes, because there's bundles. Everything's like, you can buy GTA for $4. Like it's so cheap that they're like, why wouldn't I do it? You know what I mean? So there are people sitting out there with huge Steam libraries, but maybe a little bit of a void in the living room where they could be playing it like a console.

• 49:49Andrew Manganelli?

  And everybody for years is. Found ways or tried to, but it's pretty hard to like build a computer that sits next to their TV. But we're talking small form factor. We're talking.

• 50:00David Imel?

  Micro ATX.

• 50:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, but we're talking noise, compatibility issues. So like Steam went out to release something that is essentially the console that runs Steam.

• 50:09David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, right? Makes perfect sense. People want that. There are so many things on the Steam library that still run great on a controller. You don't have to play everything keyboard and mouse. You, there's lots of, especially indie games. There's so many indie games on Steam that are really fun to play on a TV and relaxing.

• 50:24David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 50:25Andrew Manganelli?

  So they set out to launch this little box. I mean, it's, I don't know the exact dimensions, but it looks not that dissimilar from like an Xbox Series X. But a square instead of a tall.

• 50:36David Imel?

  GameCube, the original GameCube size seems similar.

• 50:39Andrew Manganelli?

  This feels very GameCube-y.

• 50:40David Imel?

  Yeah, I'm proud of myself for knowing the size of the original GameCube.

• 50:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Mm hmm. It's all pretty much PC parts, but it's all run and compatibility wise, really great. I believe it's like HDMI CEC, which lets you, which lets turning the controller on to turn the Steam can also turn your TV on. It lets all of those controls happen. Things that are kind of tough to do when you're building a PC yourself.

• 51:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 51:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, everyone's hoping for this thing when it gets talked about to be released at around five to $700. I think $800 is really like.

• 51:12David Imel?

  Seven was like the, the general consensus. I think Linus said that he would eat an entire cake on the WAN show if it was over $700.

• 51:20Andrew Manganelli?

  The portal cake.

• 51:21David Imel?

  The portal cake, but he said this months ago.

• 51:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 51:25David Imel?

  Before OpenAI destroyed everything.

• 51:27Speaker 03

  Certain prices have gone up since then.

• 51:29Andrew Manganelli?

  They have. And so we just got the release date and the release prices.

• 51:34David Imel?

  And what is that?

• 51:35Andrew Manganelli?

  So the release date is June 29th, which will be Monday.

• 51:38David Imel?

  Okay.

• 51:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, the starting price is $1,049 for the 512 gigabyte model. That does not include a controller.

• 51:46David Imel?

  Wow.

• 51:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:47Andrew Manganelli?

  1128 for the bundle with the controller at 512. Then it can go as high as a 2 terabyte model for 1428. That's the bundle with the controller.

• 51:56David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 51:57Andrew Manganelli?

  So $1,400, over a little over $1,400.

• 51:59David Imel?

  But basically starting at 1,100 with a controller.

• 52:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 52:03David Imel?

  Wow. Yeah.

• 52:04Speaker 03

  You get two PS5s.

• 52:06Andrew Manganelli?

  She pricey.

• 52:07David Imel?

  No, PS5 is now $700.

• 52:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 52:09Speaker 03

  I thought it was 650.

• 52:10David Imel?

  They, I.

• 52:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I think, I think original PS5 is 650 and.

• 52:15David Imel?

  They've raised the price.

• 52:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Pro is like 900 now with the price increases.

• 52:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Some of the issues with this, I mean, I'll go over some of the things it comes with, but the two target model also comes with two swappable faceplates. Remember, this has a magnetic faceplate that lets you do a bunch of cool customization. It has some cool LED bar on there. It's a well thought out machine in terms of compatibility. It's got all these separate antennas. So like when your Bluetooth controller is connected to it, but maybe you're downloading something off the Wi-Fi, it's a separate Wi-Fi antenna. So like you're not getting all this interference with that. There's a lot of stuff they put into this that's really impressive.

• 52:54Andrew Manganelli?

  The issue is this price, because if you think about it, even with the price increases, it's running fairly similar performance wise to a PS5, which is a six year old console that is $650.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  That's six years old?

• 53:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Right, 2000.

• 53:12Speaker 01

  It can't be that old.

• 53:13David Imel?

  Did it really?

• 53:13Andrew Manganelli?

  It came out around COVID, right?

• 53:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:16David Imel?

  Am I old?

• 53:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:18David Imel?

  Five years old?

• 53:18Speaker 04

  It's gonna turn six in a couple of months.

• 53:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 53:20David Imel?

  Oh, my God.

• 53:21Andrew Manganelli?

  So, performance wise, isn't that far off from a PS5? Some people, some games were even saying worse than a PS5. But even a PS5 Pro is $900, so still $200 less. And this comes with a controller also. And the like price to performance ratio is turning into a stinker, pretty much. And one thing that people were thinking was, and us included, how much of this will be subsidized because Steam also owns the marketplace? Therefore, X amount of money from all the Steam games that gets purchased? And they had straight up a response to why they are not subsidizing this console. I'll read it super quick, but while this might seem like an easy solution, it doesn't align with our beliefs of how healthy ecosystems are built. If there's anything we're religious about at Valve,

• 54:05Andrew Manganelli?

  it's our belief that open systems are better in the long run for ourselves and customers. The openness of the PC ecosystem in particular has enabled it to be the primary driver of hardware and software innovation, because anyone with an idea for a way to do something better was always able to take a shot at it. When companies sell their hardware under costs for competitive advantage or buy exclusive content for it, they're doing that to build a more closed system, one where you don't get to choose what software you use. We don't want PC hard, we don't want that for PC hardware. We don't think you should want it either. We feel like you should have to buy Valve hardware. You should be able to view it as-

• 54:35David Imel?

  Shouldn't have to buy Valve.

• 54:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Shouldn't, yeah. You should be able to view it as just one option alongside all the devices playing games and select the one that makes sense for you. This means you get to decide which device fits your personal trade offs, things like price, performance, form factor, peripheral support and everything else you care about. That's the strength of our PC platform subsidizing hardware runs counter to that.

• 54:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  Okay, so I, I think, yeah, so there are a competitor in the market of, I would don't know if this is the most price sensitive market-

• 55:00Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a really hard market to compare to.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  But when you ask people about PCs, like 90% of the people who are like, "I could just build a PC that gets more performance for less money." That's the whole idea of building a PC. So I can immediately see people going, "Oh, I could build a PC just like this or cheaper, and it would be a better buy than buying the Steam thing." Is there anything that you literally can't get from building your own PC?

• 55:23David Imel?

  I don't think you can get a motherboard with that HDMI thing that can turn on the TV.

• 55:28Andrew Manganelli?

  It's almost impossible to say there's no way to get it because-

• 55:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 55:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Building a PC is like infinitely customizable. To build this piece of software, running what it's running in the form factor, with the compatibility of everything, with all the different-

• 55:45David Imel?

  You mean hardware.

• 55:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry.

• 55:46David Imel?

  To build this piece of hardware.

• 55:47Andrew Manganelli?

  If you build, yeah, sorry. It's very hard. There's lots of people comparing it to this and that, but like, maybe it's a little bigger. Maybe it's not as compatible with your TV and systems. Like, they definitely made the efficiency of this whole thing-

• 56:01David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 56:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Pretty impressive.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  This is like the Surface Laptop.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  Cause there are lots of laptops you can buy and they're not necessarily, like, the Surface Laptop is a premium option. And it is, maybe it's to serve as like a Halo product even, so that others will build premium options like it, but it will never be the best bang for the buck.

• 56:20David Imel?

  Can I give you my equivalent?

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 56:22David Imel?

  This is a MacBook before the M-chip came out because it was a premium, it was premium hardware that had features that only the Mac could have, because it could work with other stuff. It had an OS that was like, sort of custom-built for it and like, you know, runs things on it. It was more expensive than things at its performance ratio. But because you could only get certain things for it, it works better with certain things. It did things that other computers couldn't do. People still bought it.

• 56:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 56:51David Imel?

  That's my analogy.

• 56:52Andrew Manganelli?

  I like it, except for that like Apple is known for being like pretty closed system stuff. And this is trying to stay open. But I do know what you're saying. It's like you're paying a premium here for like, how intuitive it is to be able to play Steam Machines on your couch.

• 57:07David Imel?

  Just it's like it just works kind of thing. Whereas like, yeah. Valve says that the worst part about PC gaming is Windows, right? And so like they want to just, but all the games are written for Windows. Yeah. And they thought that they would be able, like they made Steam Machines in 2015. And when they did that, they didn't themselves really make a bunch of Steam Machines. They went to partners like Asus and Acer and like all these other companies. And they were like, we're building the Steam OS. You should build these Steam Machines that are better, that can like run Steam on your TV, et cetera. But what they didn't, they expected that all these companies would want to like run Linux and like run Steam OS and do this kind of stuff. These companies, they couldn't really force to do that.

• 57:48David Imel?

  And so they made this layer called Proton, which is a, it's a translation layer similar to Rosetta 2. That will translate Windows games to Linux to allow you to run pretty much every Windows game. So on the Steam machine, you're using Proton. You're, you can run all the Windows games, but it's not actually running Linux. It's running like Wine underneath, which is like a Linux distribution. So yeah, I don't know. I just, I, I feel that the price to performance ratio is like, you're paying the premium for something that just makes the experience so much more seamless. And it's also a computer. It's also a Linux computer, which you can, you can do work on it too. You don't only have to.

• 58:33Andrew Manganelli?

  You can put Windows on it if you want.

• 58:35David Imel?

  Yeah, you could put Windows on it if you want.

• 58:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. It's this weird thing where like, it's.

• 58:42Andrew Manganelli?

  If you haven't been on the Valve subreddit in the last couple of days, it is.

• 58:46David Imel?

  That sounds like an exciting place to be.

• 58:48Andrew Manganelli?

  It's wild. It is like, you can't, every single comment has somebody fighting them on it. Like, everyone who thinks it's overpriced, somebody's telling them they're wrong. Everyone thinks it's good for what it is. You're a total Valve fanboy. It's fascinating to read.

• 59:04David Imel?

  I can see this having a similar YouTube ecosystem where like, there are people split. I haven't even looked yet, but there are people split. People who are like, wow, this is overpriced. Here, I'm gonna build a PC that's more powerful for less money.

• 59:14Andrew Manganelli?

  Nobody thinks it's underpriced. I can tell you that. There are people who think we are paying for the parts, essentially. Like, we are just paying the price that it is because that's how much stuff costs now. Because stuff is really expensive, especially in the PC world.

• 59:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I think people want, but at the same time, it's really easy to compare this to the consoles that are arguably running better performance than it, that are hundreds of dollars cheaper.

• 59:39David Imel?

  Which is tough because those consoles came out in a time when we were not in Ramageddon.

• 59:43Andrew Manganelli?

  But at the same time, it's also a six-year-old console that is performing better than the thing that's coming out now at $400 more expensive.

• 59:50David Imel?

  Yeah, but the old consoles can't play your Steam library.

• 59:54Andrew Manganelli?

  That's true. It is so niche.

• 59:57David Imel?

  Okay, sorry, you should finish.

• 59:59Andrew Manganelli?

  I was just gonna say, I think the people who see this niche are excited for it. I kind of think this is sick and I kind of want one, knowing I will be paying a price that's probably, quote, "too expensive," or at least I'm paying for a convenience.

• 1:00:15David Imel?

  In my opinion, this console proves that people cannot see, cannot look out into the future and be like, "I'm paying more upfront now, but the games will be cheaper for the entire time I own this," because PC games are always way cheaper. And the reason why Sony can subsidize the PS5 is because it's its closed ecosystem. You have to buy their $80 games. They don't go on sale that often.

• 1:00:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you know what else you have to pay for? Annually to play online.

• 1:00:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:42Speaker 03

  Like.

• 1:00:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:43Speaker 03

  Like the amount of-

• 1:00:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Free online.

• 1:00:45David Imel?

  This is the thing. This has always been a thing and you you pick, is it cheaper upfront? But in order to use the product and the service over the years, you're paying over the years more and more and more money? Or do you just pay more upfront, but it's basically free for the time that you use it? The games are cheaper.

• 1:01:00Speaker 01

  You own the games in your Steam library.

• 1:01:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:02Andrew Manganelli?

  You own the games.

• 1:01:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:04Andrew Manganelli?

  That's, that might also be a reason why they can't really, like, this is something, we all said they own the marketplace, but we also talked about how everyone has a million Steam games. There's probably a solid chance a ton of people buy this machine and don't buy a game for years because now I finally get to-

• 1:01:20David Imel?

  The amount of indie games you have?

• 1:01:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:21David Imel?

  On your couch?

• 1:01:22Andrew Manganelli?

  That I can play on my couch now where it's like, oh, I bought all these because these look fun, but like, it sounds crazy calling it a chore to sit at your desk and play games, but like, it's so much chillier to sit at your couch and play games.

• 1:01:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:33Andrew Manganelli?

  And I'm sure the people who have bought the $3 side-scrolling indie game that like, has a cult fanbase, now you can go play it because I just have a controller and I'm relaxing in a chair.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  And it also sort of does the opposite where it like unlocks a new, maybe a new market for them, where most people who are buying Steam games were were buying like the experience of sitting at your desktop leaning forward. But if they weren't buying lean back controller games as much, this is a new opportunity for people to go, yeah, you know what? I should get some more casual games. And they're gonna go back and buy more Steam games because they have a Steam machine.

• 1:02:06David Imel?

  Totally.

• 1:02:06Speaker 03

  Can I ask a dumb question?

• 1:02:08Andrew Manganelli?

  We might have an answer.

• 1:02:09Speaker 03

  Can you upgrade this machine?

• 1:02:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Some of it.

• 1:02:13Speaker 03

  You can't upgrade a PlayStation.

• 1:02:14David Imel?

  Good question.

• 1:02:15Andrew Manganelli?

  No, and there's not a ton. I think you can upgrade RAM and storage. That's it.

• 1:02:20David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:21Andrew Manganelli?

  I can't, you can't do that?

• 1:02:22Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 1:02:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, sorry.

• 1:02:23Speaker 03

  It's like, you could upgrade the thing that's like really [bleep] expensive.

• 1:02:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Honestly, yeah.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  I mean, I guess like in the future, like GPU stuff, is that gonna become a bottleneck for Steam games?

• 1:02:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Probably.

• 1:02:33David Imel?

  Probably.

• 1:02:34Andrew Manganelli?

  To a point. So one of the things, and this is something Linus really put it. So I watched Linus and Dave's reviews. If you want the super TLDRs, you should go watch them, first of all. But the real TLDRs are like, the pros of this are the form factor is great. The, it's really quiet, which I don't think people are appreciating. Like, having a quiet system in your living room is great.

• 1:02:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Um, and like, the cohesion and support to be set up as a living room console is really good and something that's really hard to build into a custom PC.

• 1:03:04David Imel?

  Small game.

• 1:03:04Andrew Manganelli?

  The cons are, performance wise, the price to performance ratio is not great. And one thing they kept saying was playing 4K games at 60, where a lot of that seems to be what they meant was, um, that it's like, low settings, 4K upscaling, 60 FPS. Is like, a lot of what they seem to have been talking about is like, you're 4K gaming at 60 frames a second. Cause Linus did a ton of tests and not a lot of, we'll call them modern, like, big title games we're running at.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  That is so interesting. Yeah. I, and again, I'll watch their videos, but I kind of wonder if they are looking at it more through a lens of PC gaming, which has a much bigger focus on fidelity, where I think if you're 15 feet away and your TV is across the room. I mean, I want the frame rate, but I'm maybe not thinking quite the same way about the fidelity of, I mean, it's got to perform well, obviously. But I'm not thinking exactly the same way as I would about like, the game I'm going to play in 4K on my monitor, right in front of me.

• 1:04:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Does that make sense?

• 1:04:04David Imel?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:04:05Andrew Manganelli?

  I, I agree and it's, it's tough. I agree, but at the same price when the PS5 is outperforming. And again, it's like, really hard to come back to that.

• 1:04:13David Imel?

  Games are so expensive and there's way less games on.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  I guess my question, when you say outperforming, when the PS5 is outperforming the Steam machine, what is, what exactly does that mean? Higher frame rates, more resolution?

• 1:04:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Higher frame rates, better settings.

• 1:04:24Speaker 01

  Okay. Yeah, that's the big deal. Wow.

• 1:04:26Andrew Manganelli?

  It's close to PS5. PS5 for pros seems like it was clearing it pretty easy. Um, I, I agree that that's, that's the thing that's tough here, right? It's really hard to compare to consoles. It's really hard to compare to PC gaming, because when you have this sick tower that's running a 5090 or whatever, like, it's crushing.

• 1:04:44David Imel?

  Howling.

• 1:04:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, people who like PC games like to have the insane frame rates that they can play old school RuneScape for, without utilizing any of it, but they still want it. Like, we've all been there. We've all done that. Um, it's. Yeah, I don't know. That's why I think it's so interesting. One thing to note is someone on Linus's team was talking with Valve about original price because remember this got announced before RAM?

• 1:05:07David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Blew up and um

• 1:05:10David Imel?

  VR.

• 1:05:10Andrew Manganelli?

  They couldn't quite say it, but they said, if you look at the Steam Deck price increase.

• 1:05:15David Imel?

  Which by the way,

• 1:05:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Similarly.

• 1:05:16David Imel?

  We might have mentioned before, but the Steam Deck, the 512 gig model went from $549 to $789. So that was a $220 price, $230 price increase. And the 1TB model went from $649 to $949, which is a $300 price increase. That's like almost 50%.

• 1:05:35Andrew Manganelli?

  So knock 200 to 300 dollars off of Steam Machine and we're kind of exactly where we all thought.

• 1:05:40David Imel?

  Which is what everyone thought it would be. And at 700, this thing would be awesome.

• 1:05:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:44Speaker 04

  But the slate truck, that'll, that'll stay the same.

• 1:05:47David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:49Speaker 01

  There's no RAM in that thing. What do you mean? There's no RAM in a slate truck.

• 1:05:51David Imel?

  Yeah, so. My question, my question is, can you even build an equivalently powered PC at this price point?

• 1:06:01Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm no expert. I have.

• 1:06:03David Imel?

  Has anyone done that?

• 1:06:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Linus is making, in the process of making that video. I think I saw The Verge doing, and it seemed fairly comparable. That's something that is almost an impossible question to answer because between sales and individual parts and finding the best deal here, or the rebate there, or how it all connects together, then what do you consider the same thing? Does it have HDMI, CEC? Does it have the same form factor?

• 1:06:29David Imel?

  Performance.

• 1:06:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Is it as loud?

• 1:06:30David Imel?

  Performance is the main thing.

• 1:06:31Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm sure you can build performance arguably better.

• 1:06:34David Imel?

  Yeah, I think that's specifically, if it's just.

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  Storage and everything?

• 1:06:37David Imel?

  Yeah, I think if their focus is just price to performance, purely performance, then the answer is probably yes, you can build it. But if you try to get some of the smaller intangibles, like the small form factor, or the quietness, or the HDMI.

• 1:06:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:51David Imel?

  That might make it tricky.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's basically impossible.

• 1:06:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:55Speaker 01

  So if you're, if you're gonna look, if your success to clear the bar is, I just want the same specs or to be able to play at the same settings, but not to spend $1100?

• 1:07:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:04Speaker 01

  Then you probably can do that.

• 1:07:05David Imel?

  Yeah, this, yeah.

• 1:07:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you know what? Maybe that's fine. Maybe just releasing something that's the option of if you don't want to build any of it, if you want this compatibility, if you want to play your Steam games on the couch, this is this price and if you're okay with paying that, pay it. If you're not okay with paying that, you can try, you can build it by yourself and maybe that's its own.

• 1:07:26David Imel?

  This is a console that's also a computer, whereas most computers are also consoles. You know what I mean? And so you kind of have to look at it at that angle.

• 1:07:33Speaker 01

  If you're cool with having a PC in your living room. Cause the, the console is designed to slip under the TV and the little console thing or whatever. And like the PS5 is a slim box and the Xbox is a slim box. And now the Steam machine is a pretty small box.

• 1:07:47David Imel?

  This is way smaller than both of those boxes.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that is another thing.

• 1:07:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Small computers are expensive.

• 1:07:51David Imel?

  Yeah, they are expensive.

• 1:07:53Andrew Manganelli?

  You start losing the availability of.

• 1:07:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm gonna stop saying anything because so many people.

• 1:07:58David Imel?

  No, it's fine. I mean, it's fine. I mean, we're gonna get yelled on no matter what.

• 1:08:01Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it's fine. I kind of want one. Not gonna lie.

• 1:08:03Speaker 03

  No, that's. This launch, I tried going through PC parts picker and like trying to make the same thing that was smaller.

• 1:08:09David Imel?

  You tried this?

• 1:08:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, I tried it, but this was again, but many moons ago when it was first announced. And it was still difficult. Like it was tough. And I don't think I got exact specs or what, like to what it's gonna launch with or anything like that. So it's, it's hard.

• 1:08:22David Imel?

  I saw a funny tweet where someone was trying to like build the equivalent powered PC for about like for, try to, try to get a good price on it. And they put the parts into chat GPT and they said, is this a good build for this price? And chat GPT said, yeah, this looks like a really good computer. Except I want to point out one thing, the RAM that you bought, it says that it's $400, but that must be like an error because RAM, this kind of RAM should only be about $80. And if it was 400, I'd call the police, frankly. And it was like, mm, your model's only trained to a certain date, isn't it?

• 1:08:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it's funny watching Linus and Dave talk about this because it's one of those things where they're like, this is awesome. This is awesome. I remember the price. This is a little tougher. Oh, the proposal. I think like, I think both of them kind of wound up at like, I still think this is really sweet.

• 1:09:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:16Andrew Manganelli?

  It's just like, it's a really sweet thing. That's really hard to recommend. Like, the people who want this are the people who are gonna find out they want it by themselves and be willing to pray.

• 1:09:26David Imel?

  Yeah, they also clearly did not make a lot of these things. Because in order to buy one, you have to like, there's a really, really weird system you have to go through. You have to like, email them or something and then they put you in a lottery.

• 1:09:39Andrew Manganelli?

  You sign up for a waitlist. You sign up to get put into a lottery, which puts your place in line for when it comes out. And then if you sign up after the whatever date, then you just get added to the waitlist at the end of that.

• 1:09:51David Imel?

  They're gonna be, they're, these things are gonna be sold out for like, the next two years.

• 1:09:55Andrew Manganelli?

  There is one thing that I thought was interesting, to go all the way back to, I knocked David's mic somehow. Something people were saying, a reason they might not be subsidizing this is because it can just be run as a Linux or a Windows system is like, people could just buy a bunch of these at the cheat, the subsidized price and use it as compute power and

• 1:10:16David Imel?

  Oh, for like

• 1:10:16Andrew Manganelli?

  and data farm with it. So like, maybe that's something they took into, I'm sure there's lots of things to take into account. There's so many variables out here with slop and it's annoying and gamers suffer the most.

• 1:10:28David Imel?

  I know people are probably gonna say I'm Valve glazing, but generally, I feel like Steam and Valve like, do things that they just don't want to do because they're a private company. They don't have to think about their stock going up. And that's why people still love them. That's why the Steam is still a good marketplace.

• 1:10:42Speaker 03

  Wow, how much do they pay you to say that?

• 1:10:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Please, no one post any of our conversation to the Valve subreddit. I cannot handle it.

• 1:10:48David Imel?

  Oh, they will.

• 1:10:48Andrew Manganelli?

  I will, I will go into hiding.

• 1:10:51David Imel?

  They will.

• 1:10:52Speaker 03

  I will make a clip specifically for it.

• 1:10:54David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't know, man. I, private companies are the best. I love private companies, so.

• 1:10:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Let's do trivia.

• 1:11:00David Imel?

  Let's do trivia.

• 1:11:01Speaker 03

  It's time.

• 1:11:03Speaker 03

  Trivia, dude. Gabe Newell.

• 1:11:07David Imel?

  Ooh.

• 1:11:07Speaker 03

  And Mike Harrington.

• 1:11:08David Imel?

  Hmm.

• 1:11:09Speaker 03

  Founders of Valve, started the company in 1996.

• 1:11:14David Imel?

  Damn.

• 1:11:14Speaker 03

  What company did they both work for before that?

• 1:11:18David Imel?

  I know the answer. Let's go. That's unfair.

• 1:11:22Speaker 01

  Why? Because I know the answer?

• 1:11:24David Imel?

  That's how the game works.

• 1:11:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Trivia really sucks when everyone knows the answer.

• 1:11:30David Imel?

  It's literally what trivia is, is knowing the answer.

• 1:11:33Speaker 01

  Not supposed to know it. Nope.

• 1:11:36David Imel?

  All right, well, I'll tell you guys the answer to that.

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  We'll be right back.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

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• 1:13:15Speaker 06

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• 1:13:39Speaker 06

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• 1:13:46David Imel?

  Welcome back. Have you ever wanted a pair of Ray-Bans, except they're not by Ray-Ban? They're by the company that steals all of your data?

• 1:13:54Andrew Manganelli?

  And they're also still kind of by Ray-Ban.

• 1:13:57David Imel?

  And they're also still kind of by Ray-Ban? Yeah.

• 1:13:59Andrew Manganelli?

  We got a story for you.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  That's a lot of smarts.

• 1:14:03David Imel?

  Meta has launched the product just for you, Marquez, because Meta has just launched three new models of smart glasses. Now they are just called Meta glasses, which is really ironic because everyone already called the Meta Ray-Bans Meta glasses.

• 1:14:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Ironic? See what you did there?

• 1:14:20David Imel?

  Oh, with your eyeballs? Pretty good. They're $80 cheaper and so basically it just seems like Meta wanted to not license the Ray-Ban branding. And they're also made by Luxottica.

• 1:14:31Andrew Manganelli?

  They're still made by Luxottica.

• 1:14:32David Imel?

  Which makes the Ray-Ban glasses. So they are launching three different models. There's, okay, these are stupid ass names, dude. The Fury model.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  Oh, boy.

• 1:14:43David Imel?

  They kind of look like Ray-Ban Wayfarers a little bit. They're a little bit thicker. They have seven color options. That's the one thing about these glasses that are pretty different from the Ray-Bans. They come in like a lot of different colors.

• 1:14:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, I specifically put color options there because there are seven options. There's not, it's kind of confusing. So some of them are color plus lens options.

• 1:15:02David Imel?

  Right.

• 1:15:02Andrew Manganelli?

  So there's probably like four colors.

• 1:15:04David Imel?

  Right. There's, yeah, complex. That's a good clarification. The Adventure model, which are definitely pretty similar, but they have thinner frames. They also have different color combinations, about eight of them. And if you couldn't get enough of Kylie Jenner for some reason, because you know, you're just a huge Kardashian fan, even though that's not her last name. They also have the Meta Glasses Kylie Edition, um, which, you know, they've got this retro oval kind of look to the frame and they're a collab with Kylie Jenner. They have three color options and she voices an AI model that talks to you.

• 1:15:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Cause you really, I missed that part.

• 1:15:39David Imel?

  She does.

• 1:15:40Andrew Manganelli?

  They're also not $80 cheaper. They are $3.99.

• 1:15:44David Imel?

  $400.

• 1:15:45Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, instead of paying the licensing money to Ray-Ban, you just pay it to Kylie Jenner.

• 1:15:49David Imel?

  Directly to Kylie Jenner.

• 1:15:50Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 1:15:51David Imel?

  So, you know, I don't know. I think we've been seeing all these different glasses from like, the smart glasses from Samsung and like a bunch of different companies. And I guess Meta eventually just wanted to take all of the money and not have to like pay directly to Ray-Ban anymore.

• 1:16:06Andrew Manganelli?

  But it's confusing because they still have Luxottica branding on them on the inside. It's still made by, like, I saw a lot of takes like, oh, this is cool. Let's make it cheaper for people, which it is. I'm not gonna complain that it's cheaper. It's $2.99 now, starting price. But like, without the Ray-Ban licensing, but it's not Meta building these from the ground up. It's Luxottica who's still built the frames.

• 1:16:27David Imel?

  Who was anyway before.

• 1:16:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, who is, they own Ray-Ban.

• 1:16:30Speaker 03

  Is it really a good thing if more people have these glasses?

• 1:16:33David Imel?

  No.

• 1:16:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay. Okay. That definitely.

• 1:16:36David Imel?

  For who? For us?

• 1:16:37Andrew Manganelli?

  So.

• 1:16:38David Imel?

  For Meta, yeah. That's the whole point.

• 1:16:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Meta was essentially, they had PR statements ready for stuff like this because not just in the sense of all the, the privacy concerns that we talked about, there have been, I don't know if you've seen, but a lot of people have been finding ways to like drill out the camera light.

• 1:16:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:58Andrew Manganelli?

  And there's like tutorials online and people who are doing this in some states where like, you can essentially stop the light, which I already think is not a good enough light to prove that you're recording, but to just full-blown drill it out and still have the camera work. So people don't know you're recording, which is the creepiest thing I could ever think of. And also, we're starting to see establishments banning these types of glasses from places because of recording, which is a huge issue because if these are just your glasses that you're supposed to wear every day and you go to one of those places that is banned, now you either are not going to that place or you're going to that place without the ability to see because you, you can't wear your glasses inside of it. And they've noticed this. Um, something

• 1:17:40Andrew Manganelli?

  they said at the event is, we know there's tampering today and there's handful of ways people are doing it. Nothing that Meta has seen, or noting Meta has seen an increasing number of bad actors misusing its products as they become more popular. If people aren't comfortable with you wearing the glasses, not only do we personally think that's bad, but we would have, we wouldn't have a business anymore. You should see some updates from us really soon while we're looking to address it directly. They need to find a way to stop these glasses from working if you drill out the lights. They also need to make the recording sign red.

• 1:18:10David Imel?

  Yeah, they had, they had put some precautions in where if you like covered the light with tape, it would know and it wouldn't work. But Joanna Stern actually did a video about this where she found a bunch of people that were willing to like selling the service of drilling the light out without the glasses knowing.

• 1:18:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:27David Imel?

  Cause the wiring was still there, so it was still receiving a circuit. So it didn't trip anything, but they were, they took the light out physically. Um, yeah, they need to make this a lot better, but Meta does not care about this. Meta only cares if they get in trouble.

• 1:18:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Meta will start caring if stuff like this happens where these start getting banned everywhere and it's going to turn into smart glasses are just not a viable option.

• 1:18:49David Imel?

  It's just so hard to ban these when they look more and more like regular glasses and the cameras in these are actually smaller than they were in the original.

• 1:18:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, they are a little bit smaller.

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  I just had to, I was like, where was I just, I was just somewhere where these glasses were banned. I was trying to remember what it was.

• 1:19:04David Imel?

  Ferrari.

• 1:19:05Speaker 01

  And it was the Formula One paddock. Yeah.

• 1:19:07David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:19:07Speaker 01

  Where you, we walk into the Formula One paddock and they had to like outlaw, like no recording, no cameras, don't take any pictures, obviously.

• 1:19:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  And people would be going in with the glasses on all the time and just recording anyway. So they had to put a sign on the door that says, no smart glasses in the paddock.

• 1:19:23Andrew Manganelli?

  It's funny, that's because they don't want like trade secrets of their cars going in where most of these establishments is because they don't want creeps coming in or people to feel uncomfortable. That's the thing is like you could not be a creep, but lots of people are going to feel uncomfortable.

• 1:19:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Because you're in a private place of business with potentially getting recorded whenever.

• 1:19:41David Imel?

  Yeah. It's one of those things where every time I talk to someone who I can tell is wearing the Meta glasses, I just immediately assume that they're recording.

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  I feel on edge when I'm talking.

• 1:19:53David Imel?

  Like remember we were at South by Southwest and that person came up to us.

• 1:19:56Speaker 01

  And this might not even be online, I don't even know, so I'll keep it anonymous. But somebody ran up to us basically and just like started recording with the glasses. I don't even think she asked. Oh, can I record?

• 1:20:06Andrew Manganelli?

  She did say.

• 1:20:07Speaker 04

  Can I record you with my Metas?

• 1:20:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, can I record you? And then just started recording and then just started interviewing us, basically, like using her glasses as a camera. And just sort of didn't listen for us to say yes or no and just started going.

• 1:20:19Andrew Manganelli?

  The most South by Southwest thing you could imagine.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  And when that happens to you, you realize like everyone, anyone wearing glasses could be recording at any point. And I feel like the people who are wearing the glasses probably intend to record something at some point. So I just kind of assume that if I'm talking to someone and I notice that they have the glasses on.

• 1:20:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  I'm just gonna talk, live and act as if this is being recorded right now.

• 1:20:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Which also, I get people, like if you are in a public place, you are allowed to be recorded because you're in public. It's the thing that gets weird about this are if I'm being recorded at a public place with some, a phone or a camera, I can tell I'm being recorded. When you're starting to drill this stuff out, I don't, people don't know what's going on. It starts getting really weird on who's recording what when it comes with children or like, that's all really strange. And then when you start getting into private places of business that don't allow recording and that you expect some sort of privacy.

• 1:21:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:10Andrew Manganelli?

  And you're potentially recording stuff like that.

• 1:21:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:12Andrew Manganelli?

  It's just getting really strange.

• 1:21:14Speaker 01

  In Japan, they have a law where every smartphone has to come with a loud camera shutter sound. Every time you take a photo of something on any smartphone, it literally, it's at its like max volume and you will always hear it go off.

• 1:21:27Andrew Manganelli?

  I think I noticed that too. Is that true about China phones too?

• 1:21:29Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:21:30Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  In Japan, it's a law.

• 1:21:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, that might be true about some other places too, but I feel like that was a default that I noticed was this shutter sound was always on at the box and extremely loud. And every time I took a picture, it was like, chchch.

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, wow. And then they got clever with it and they made it sound like a DSLR and other stuff.

• 1:21:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's just hard to know if someone's just wearing glasses, walking around, like you never really know if they're recording or not. It just becomes.

• 1:21:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Your glasses right now could be the Meta glasses.

• 1:21:55Speaker 01

  They're not. They're not. They kind of look like them. That's the whole point is also because they're Ray-Bans, the idea is to make them look kind of like regular glasses.

• 1:22:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:03Speaker 01

  And with the, with the Ray-Ban name on them, they kind of feel like regular glasses, so. Yeah.

• 1:22:09David Imel?

  And the more styles they introduce, the more they're just gonna blend in and look like more regular. Cause even like now, people have started assuming that pretty much all Ray-Bans are smart glasses. You know, they associate the smart glass trend with Ray-Bans. But now they're releasing all these different models that come with these different styles and it's just gonna become impossible at some point.

• 1:22:28Andrew Manganelli?

  I will say like the, so the Furies definitely look like smart glasses. They're super thick on the.

• 1:22:34David Imel?

  Yeah, super thick on the sides.

• 1:22:35Andrew Manganelli?

  What the, I don't even know what you call that. It's pretty obvious.

• 1:22:38David Imel?

  The arms.

• 1:22:38Andrew Manganelli?

  The arms. Thank you. I'm an idiot. The Kylie ones, which I'm kind of confused about, cause all the pictures says Meta Starfire Kylie Edition, but everyone keeps calling them Meta Glasses Kylie Edition. So I don't know if there's a name change. Those are a little harder to see the glasses because the frames are so black and thick. But then the Adventurers.

• 1:22:58David Imel?

  They look pretty normal.

• 1:22:59Andrew Manganelli?

  They look super normal. They're really thin. The glasses just look like they could be like a screw hole or like a just a piece of flare essentially on the glasses. And I can't imagine a little white circle around that is really tipping many people off to your recording.

• 1:23:14David Imel?

  Yeah. So these glasses also come with Meta's first Superintelligence Labs model, uh, which is called Muse Spark for some reason. Everything is Spark recently, by the way, and I think this is a reference to Sparks of AGI.

• 1:23:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Gemini Spark.

• 1:23:28David Imel?

  Gemini Spark. There's a lot of Spark stuff going on. Yeah. And I think it's the, the whole Sparks of AGI thing. Either way, it should be a little smarter. So you should be able to have like more natural conversations with it. It should know more things, things like that.

• 1:23:42Speaker 01

  And Kylie's voice.

• 1:23:43David Imel?

  And Kylie's voice. Which is great.

• 1:23:48Andrew Manganelli?

  I didn't, I don't know how I missed that.

• 1:23:50David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:50Andrew Manganelli?

  That's really funny.

• 1:23:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:52Speaker 04

  We never got an update to the SVG that's Swedish.

• 1:23:57Speaker 04

  Yes, we never got an update of Swedish. We never got Swedish. Yeah, yeah. I know Meta ended their contract with the data annotation company in Kenya, but we never found out. How real.

• 1:24:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Such a big tech company thing to do, be like, it was their fault.

• 1:24:12Speaker 04

  I know.

• 1:24:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Just blame them completely and find another place that will do the probably exact same thing.

• 1:24:17Speaker 04

  And that story didn't really make the rounds among US consumers. And I found myself over and over again, like, meeting people who are wearing the Meta glasses and wanting to be like, hey, there's this potential that they're just recording. Did you know? All the time. And I never know how to have that conversation with people, so I just don't.

• 1:24:32Andrew Manganelli?

  I think the, here's my potential silver lining of, I think most people who buy those glasses aren't using the AI features of it, which is generally when it was recording without them knowing. So I do think most people are just like, these are glasses that can play some music and I can record First Person View every once in a while.

• 1:24:51Speaker 04

  I hope so. I hope they weren't just recording.

• 1:24:53Andrew Manganelli?

  I think the average people buying that are probably like, not really asking the sh** Meta AI what's going on.

• 1:24:59Speaker 04

  Yeah. But in other news, Meta's starting a prediction market, so.

• 1:25:03David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:04Speaker 04

  What? Oh, yeah. You didn't hear about this?

• 1:25:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:07Speaker 04

  They're starting a standalone app called Arena that's supposed to compete with polymark.

• 1:25:10David Imel?

  Have they ever had an original idea?

• 1:25:12Speaker 04

  Yeah. Anyway.

• 1:25:15Andrew Manganelli?

  We all just got a little sad.

• 1:25:16David Imel?

  This is every time we talk about Meta.

• 1:25:17Speaker 04

  I know.

• 1:25:18David Imel?

  This is every time we talk about Meta.

• 1:25:19Speaker 04

  What's something nice we can say, guys?

• 1:25:21David Imel?

  Have to shoot a manifesto.

• 1:25:22Andrew Manganelli?

  At least they look better than the Snap glasses.

• 1:25:25Speaker 04

  I don't agree with that. I like the Snap glasses. What?

• 1:25:28Andrew Manganelli?

  That might be one of the hotter takes.

• 1:25:30Speaker 04

  I'm back with them. Anyway, should we do some fun questions?

• 1:25:33David Imel?

  We should do trivia.

• 1:25:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Let's do it.

• 1:25:36Speaker 04

  Hey.

• 1:25:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Scoop up, beat up, bah.

• 1:25:40Speaker 04

  Back for its second week in a row, apparently.

• 1:25:45Speaker 04

  Guys.

• 1:25:45Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm still getting this wrong.

• 1:25:47Speaker 04

  What was the first version of Android where they reset the dessert alphabet in the code name? And I'm looking for the number and the dessert.

• 1:25:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Take this because it's.

• 1:25:59David Imel?

  One point each would be cool.

• 1:26:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Which version of Android?

• 1:26:01Speaker 04

  It's gonna be one point each.

• 1:26:02David Imel?

  Hell, yeah.

• 1:26:04Speaker 04

  Oh, version number.

• 1:26:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, when you say, when you say reset, you mean it's the last one before it reset? Or the first one that did reset?

• 1:26:10Speaker 04

  The first one that did reset. That's a, that's a great, great clarification to get out there.

• 1:26:20Speaker 04

  All right.

• 1:26:24Speaker 04

  Flip 'em and read.

• 1:26:29Speaker 04

  Who wants to go first?

• 1:26:32David Imel?

  I'll start. I believe it is Android 16.

• 1:26:37Speaker 04

  That is correct.

• 1:26:38David Imel?

  Which is baklava.

• 1:26:40Speaker 04

  And that is double correct!

• 1:26:41David Imel?

  Thank you.

• 1:26:42Speaker 04

  Marquez is the Android sicko.

• 1:26:44David Imel?

  Thank you.

• 1:26:45Andrew Manganelli?

  They've...

• 1:26:47David Imel?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:26:48Speaker 04

  So, uh...

• 1:26:49Andrew Manganelli?

  They didn't start with A?

• 1:26:51Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:26:51David Imel?

  Nope.

• 1:26:52Andrew Manganelli?

  I hate it.

• 1:26:53David Imel?

  Well, they didn't start with A with regular Android either.

• 1:26:55Speaker 04

  That is correct.

• 1:26:56David Imel?

  They started with C.

• 1:26:56Speaker 04

  You're also a sicko.

• 1:26:57David Imel?

  That's right.

• 1:26:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, that's B!

• 1:26:59David Imel?

  No, it's cupcake.

• 1:27:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, I'm saying that's B.

• 1:27:01David Imel?

  Yeah, C, 17 is C.

• 1:27:03Andrew Manganelli?

  My, my deduction was solid because I knew 17 was C. So I went to 15, assuming normal people restart the alphabet at A. Wayne restarts the alphabet at A.

• 1:27:18David Imel?

  Totally valid guess.

• 1:27:19Andrew Manganelli?

  I think that's, and then I just guessed apple turnover.

• 1:27:22Speaker 04

  Yes, unfortunately, that is incorrect. David, you also put 15.

• 1:27:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:26Speaker 04

  And what dessert did you write down?

• 1:27:27David Imel?

  Creme brulee.

• 1:27:28Speaker 04

  Mmm.

• 1:27:29David Imel?

  I almost wrote tiramisu.

• 1:27:30Speaker 04

  Solid.

• 1:27:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, hold on, can I? Because...

• 1:27:33David Imel?

  I was just kidding. I was just, I just wanted to rage bait people.

• 1:27:36Andrew Manganelli?

  It feels like, oh, creme brulee was just a guess, or did you think it was C? Because you made the deduction to go back to 15 based on current being C.

• 1:27:45David Imel?

  You would think that, but I...

• 1:27:46Andrew Manganelli?

  But then you did C again.

• 1:27:48David Imel?

  You would think that, Andrew, but I just went for it, baby.

• 1:27:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, hell, yeah.

• 1:27:50David Imel?

  I didn't have enough time to like, actually think that hard.

• 1:27:53Andrew Manganelli?

  You're too busy AR trying on the Kylie sunglasses.

• 1:27:57David Imel?

  That I was, and they look amazing.

• 1:28:02David Imel?

  I put it in memes. You can check it out.

• 1:28:04Speaker 04

  Oh, my God.

• 1:28:06David Imel?

  My mouth's slightly open.

• 1:28:07Andrew Manganelli?

  The trivia music started and David's still having, giving me my whiteboard because he was trying them on. I was like, I gotta think.

• 1:28:13David Imel?

  Virtually trying on the Kylie.

• 1:28:14Speaker 04

  For those curious, version 13 was tiramisu, as we learned last week.

• 1:28:19David Imel?

  Wait, I got this.

• 1:28:20Speaker 04

  Uh, 14 was...

• 1:28:22David Imel?

  Upside down cake.

• 1:28:23Speaker 04

  What a banger.

• 1:28:24David Imel?

  What a banger. Whataburger?

• 1:28:26Andrew Manganelli?

  V.

• 1:28:26Speaker 04

  The number 15 was...

• 1:28:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Alphabet backwards is really hard.

• 1:28:29David Imel?

  Was V.

• 1:28:30Speaker 01

  Which is?

• 1:28:31David Imel?

  Voluptuous cake.

• 1:28:32Speaker 01

  No, V. V is the last one before they reset. What is V? Hold on. V?

• 1:28:39David Imel?

  V? Viermasu.

• 1:28:43Andrew Manganelli?

  That's the French version.

• 1:28:46David Imel?

  The last one before they updated.

• 1:28:48Speaker 01

  What was it?

• 1:28:49David Imel?

  Vanilla ice cream.

• 1:28:51David Imel?

  Boring ass one of all time.

• 1:28:53Speaker 01

  Very vanilla.

• 1:28:53David Imel?

  Very vanilla.

• 1:28:54Speaker 04

  It's a rare bean from Madagascar.

• 1:28:57David Imel?

  You know that vanilla is actually one of the more complex flavors? There's like thirty something flavor things that go into vanilla.

• 1:29:02Speaker 01

  That sounds like something.

• 1:29:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  Vanilla would say.

• 1:29:06Andrew Manganelli?

  Big vanilla.

• 1:29:07David Imel?

  Big vanilla wants you to believe.

• 1:29:08Andrew Manganelli?

  That's like this base slate drip being like, it locks.

• 1:29:13Speaker 03

  Anyway, after that correct answer, Marquez with thirty.

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 1:29:17Speaker 03

  Andrew with twenty six and David with thirty one.

• 1:29:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh no!

• 1:29:21Speaker 01

  That far ahead?

• 1:29:22David Imel?

  Oh no!

• 1:29:23Andrew Manganelli?

  I thought David was clearing all of us.

• 1:29:24David Imel?

  Because Mariah destroyed me when I was out. She didn't do it.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  She got points for you.

• 1:29:29David Imel?

  No, she didn't. She got zero points.

• 1:29:31Speaker 03

  Damn. Okay, well, what company did both the founders of Valve work at before? Starting Valve?

• 1:29:39Speaker 01

  Just as we thought we were catching up.

• 1:29:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  I can make a guess.

• 1:29:44Speaker 03

  You should guess.

• 1:29:46David Imel?

  You get one point for founder.

• 1:29:50David Imel?

  That was a joke.

• 1:29:51Speaker 01

  They came from the same company.

• 1:29:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Hmm.

• 1:29:54David Imel?

  Where'd they find her?

• 1:29:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Welcome back, Ellis.

• 1:30:00Speaker 01

  This is, this.

• 1:30:02David Imel?

  I have no idea.

• 1:30:05Speaker 03

  Flipping and Reed, what do we got?

• 1:30:07David Imel?

  Yes!

• 1:30:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Just cause.

• 1:30:08David Imel?

  No way! You guys guessed this correctly?

• 1:30:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it's the only plausible thing to guess unless you know.

• 1:30:15Speaker 04

  Two, three.

• 1:30:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Microsoft.

• 1:30:21David Imel?

  God damn it.

• 1:30:23Andrew Manganelli?

  You thought he was about to get a free point?

• 1:30:25David Imel?

  It's not free.

• 1:30:26Speaker 01

  Nope. I used my big brain, thought you were about to take the lead by even more than you were already in the lead.

• 1:30:31David Imel?

  I'm only in the lead by one, Marquez.

• 1:30:33Speaker 01

  We made educated guesses and you are still only in the lead by one.

• 1:30:36David Imel?

  God.

• 1:30:37Speaker 01

  Wow, that felt great.

• 1:30:37Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm trailing by a billion.

• 1:30:39Speaker 01

  I'm glad, I'm glad we were able to, uh, pull that one off. Well, this has been a fun.

• 1:30:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Freaking extravaganza.

• 1:30:46Speaker 01

  31 points.

• 1:30:47Speaker 03

  Actually, next month.

• 1:30:49Speaker 01

  We've been cooking. That's a nice little teaser. Hey, if you made it this far in the episode, now you know when the trivia extravaganza is.

• 1:30:54Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 1:30:54Speaker 01

  Which is very exciting, exclusive information. Well, that's been more of your regularly scheduled programming. Be sure to tune back in next week. Of course, if you're subscribed, you already know it's gonna hit your feed. But we'll catch you again soon. Thanks for watching. Catch you in the next one. Peace.

• 1:31:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait For Was produced by Adam Alena and Ellis Rovin. Part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. And the track out your music was created by Vinsil.

• 1:31:23Speaker 01

  The whole world's talking about the slate. And I'm talking about Strile Manifesto.