S2E9: REWIND: Talk Tracks Ep. 5: Consciousness Beyond The Body: When A Coma Projects A Ghost

Before we head into the final two episodes of Season 2, we’re revisiting episode five of Talk Tracks because it was one of the first to point toward a question that now sits at the center of where we’re going. It explores whether consciousness can remain active and aware even when communication breaks down, setting the stage for the final two episodes of the season, premiering on Monday, December 22nd and Monday, December 29th. _______ In this riveting episode of The Talk Tracks, we explore two astonishing stories that challenge our understanding of consciousness and the limits of the human mind. First, we meet Elodie, who recounts her near-death experience at 18—a moment that profoundly altered her perception of reality. But what happened next is even more extraordinary. In a moment of deep despair, she received a telepathic message from a young, nonspeaking boy hundreds of miles away. His message not only saved her life but also revealed the profound ways in which consciousness can connect beyond physical barriers. Then, we dive into a shocking case investigated by parapsychologist Lloyd Auerbach, where a woman in hospice care unknowingly projected her consciousness into her childhood home, appearing as a ghost to the new family living there. Her body remained bedridden, yet her mind traveled freely, challenging our assumptions about the nature of life, death, and human perception. Could telepathy and consciousness extend beyond the body—even for those with dementia, Alzheimer’s, or in a coma? This episode pushes the boundaries of what we think we know about reality, connection, and the unseen forces that shape our world. _______ Join The Telepathy Tapes Backstage Pass https://thetelepathytapes.supercast.com/ to get ad-free episodes, never-before-heard interviews, behind-the-scenes documentary footage, and access to our private Discord community. This is your invitation to come closer. To help shape what’s next. To be more than a listener… to be a co-creator of this paradigm shift. So if you’ve felt moved, if you’ve felt seen, if you’ve felt the call, subscribe today and join us: thetelepathytapes.com. https://thetelepathytapes.com/ See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ky Dickens?

  Before we head into our final two episodes of the season, starting next Monday, December 22nd, we're revisiting episode five of The Talk Tracks because it was one of the first to explore that consciousness can remain active, present, and connected, even when the body cannot express it. Elodie's near-death experience and her ability to sense and communicate with people whose bodies no longer speak mirror the exact question we step into next week, which is whether consciousness stays fully present when language and cognition fall away. Her story is an early map of what you'll hear in the upcoming episode, where we look closely at someone who seems unreachable and ask whether or not he's still aware and trying to communicate. When you listen to this episode again, or for the first time, with that lens, and with

• 0:44Ky Dickens?

  all the explorations of consciousness we've investigated this season, I think you'll hear details that really resonate, or that you may have missed the first time, and they matter for where we're heading in the final two episodes of The Telepathy Tapes, Season Two.

• 0:56Speaker 01

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• 1:39Speaker 01

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• 1:44Ky Dickens?

  Hi, everyone. I'm Kai Dickens, and I'm thrilled to welcome you to The Talk Tracks. In this series, we dive deeper into the revelations, challenges, and unexpected truths from The Telepathy Tapes. The goal is to explore all the threads that weave together our understanding of reality, science, spirituality, and, yes, even unexplained things like psi abilities. If you haven't yet listened to season one of The Telepathy Tapes, I encourage you to start there. It lays the foundation for everything we'll be exploring in this journey. We'll feature conversations with groundbreaking researchers, thinkers, non-speakers, and experiencers who illuminate the extraordinary connections that may defy explanation today, but won't for long.

• 2:30Ky Dickens?

  Over the past year, I've encountered some mind-bending stories. So it's pretty rare now for something to leave me a bit speechless. But today, we have two extraordinary stories that did just that. One tells the story of a young, non-speaking boy who used telepathy to save a life from miles away. The other reveals how a dying woman's consciousness returned to her family home so powerfully that the new family living there must took it for a ghost. Both stories challenge the very limits of what we believe about consciousness, suggesting that our awareness isn't confined to our bodies, and that deep, unseen connections can transcend distance, perception, and even our understanding of reality itself.

• 3:17Ky Dickens?

  So first, we welcome Elodie. So Elodie, I'm, I mean, I'm so excited because, you know, we do have emails coming in from listeners, and it's always just really exciting to hear stories. And there are some that just pop out. And I think, oh, my gosh, I want our audience to hear this story because it's so beautiful. So I guess for starters, why don't you introduce yourself?

• 3:34Speaker 02

  My name is Elodie Tarantino, and I live in North Georgia mountains. I'm a mother of two boys, beautiful boys, they're 22 and 21. And we own a pizzeria.

• 3:47Ky Dickens?

  Okay, so first, you wrote an email that just stunned us. And I'd love for you to share now with listeners who Brandon is and how he saved your life. But I guess first, we should probably go back to your terrifying brush with death, yourself, and how that experience allowed your own consciousness to kind of open up and allow you to tap into more than you could before.

• 4:09Speaker 02

  I had a cyst on my ovary that I was unaware of that ruptured. And when it ruptured, it popped a little bitty blood vessel. And I started bleeding out. Within minutes, I was going downhill because I had lost so much blood. I'd lost nine units of blood. And I remember being in a fetal position, jerking, still not aware what was going on. And the nurse was rubbing my head, saying, "Baby, stay with me, stay with me, honey." And it was so, it was so strange because I still didn't know what was happening. I just kept telling her, "I'm so cold, I'm so cold." And then the most amazing thing, I rolled over, I felt like somebody was pouring warm

• 4:53Speaker 02

  milk on top of my head and I felt this sensation go through me of love, comfort, warmth. It was really amazing. And I straightened out and I remember looking at the lady and her saying, baby, stay with me. And I shut my eyes.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  The near death experience happened within a few minutes. There was this golden ball of light to my left, who, which was all encompassing love. And I was flying towards this sun that was so brilliant orange. I, I can't even describe the colors that I saw, but this color was amazingly like a tangerine. And we're going towards it. And I remember thinking my, my skin's not getting hot because I really thought I was flying into the sun. So I'm like, my face is not getting hot. And then when I arrived inside the sun, it was amazing because there were all these people. And over to my left were different groups of people. Down in front of me were all these people

• 5:58Speaker 02

  in this, there was like this chiffon energy screen that was happening above their heads. And it was my whole life. It was my past, present and future happening all at once. There was no linear time here. It was very strange. I wasn't overwhelmed by looking at it. Next thing I knew, I woke up a few days later and the, the awareness was, I felt like I had been a little mouse living in a glass cage, my whole life being content and then put out in the desert. I started getting flashbacks of me being where I was.

• 6:33Ky Dickens?

  So for you, your near death experience, like it kind of came back to you almost like once the drugs wore off, then you remembered it came flooding back to you.

• 6:41Speaker 02

  Flooding back. And it was like, because I just, I was different when I woke up. But I, I remember just being vulnerable, feeling like vulnerable and aware. And I always say, this heightened my spiritual experiences because I had a lot of them when I was a kid. So this just opened it up even further for me.

• 7:03Ky Dickens?

  How old were you when you had your near death experience?

• 7:05Speaker 02

  I was 18.

• 7:07Ky Dickens?

  How long after your NDE did this story with Brandon happen?

• 7:11Speaker 02

  It was about a year and a half and it just, my life, I thought it was gonna get better when I came back, you know, and it just kind of took a turn and got harder and worse and, and, and more difficult. I was doing nails at the time and I had this young lady, her name was Amy and she was just a sweet girl. And she came in and she started talking to me one day about how her aunt was a special ed teacher in East Texas and how she was working with these autistic kids and how intelligent these autistic kids were, that they were smarter than some of these doctors and doctors were coming to the school to

• 7:52Speaker 02

  interview them and they just couldn't, everybody was wowed. And I just remember thinking, well, that's, that's unusual. I've never heard anything like this. This is really cool. And she said, well, I'm going to see my aunt. Would you like to go with me? And I said, well, thank you for inviting me, but in reality, I, I just was a little too depressed to want to be around anybody or go do anything like that. There was a lot going on in my life. I can't even pinpoint at that moment, what was really happening. I had had a very challenging, uh, relationship with my mom and I, I just felt abandoned by her and I felt abandoned by everybody.

• 8:30Ky Dickens?

  Yeah. And then I believe you said in your email that it was that night after you saw your friend Amy, who was a client in the nail salon, that things really hit rock bottom for you. Do you feel comfortable sharing that part of the story?

• 8:42Speaker 02

  I mean, this does become a little personal and I was really upset that, that night and I wasn't sure that I wanted to be here anymore. And I was crying and asking in God, you know, please, I don't, I don't want to be here, but I don't want to not, not be here. I had written a letter and I was the type of person who everybody would have said, I would have never dreamed she would have done this. It was a very private thing for me to be depressed. I didn't want anybody to know, but I was contemplating that evening on leaving this earth. And I think this is what was the interesting part is in the moment,

• 9:27Speaker 02

  I think in that moment, because of what had happened to me, I knew what existed on the other side.

• 9:33Ky Dickens?

  And I know you said that because of your near-death experience, it's not like you feared the idea of ending your life. And that, and that you didn't want to, of course, but rather that you felt like you couldn't keep living. And that you just prayed in desperation that night. Can you tell us about that moment or those prayers?

• 9:50Speaker 02

  I really did open myself up in that moment. Like, if you've got any way you're gonna help me to get through this moment right here, you need to make your presence known because I'm about to make this decision. And I said, "God, please help me because I don't want to do this, but I just can't be here anymore." And soon as I finished saying that, I heard this boy, and he caught my attention, and he said my name. He said, "Eledy, God hears your prayers." And I remember going, in that moment, I saw this little boy. I knew he had dark hair.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  I knew his name was Brandon. He never told me his name was Brandon, but I knew his name was Brandon. And it was so crisp and clear, and he got my attention. And immediately, I stopped myself and I said, "Okay, I know I'm not crazy. I know I just heard this little boy. I know his name is Brandon, and I know he has dark hair, and I know he's young." And I knew he was around seven, seven years old. And so I thought, "Okay, I'm just gonna put everything to the side." I was kind of in shock over that. So I was like, he got my attention. I went to bed. The very next morning, I was woken up by that girl, Amy, who had come in.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  She had called me because we were kind of friends, and I had given him my number in case she ever wanted, you know, to hang out. We had never hung out before, other than the nails. And she called me and she said, "Eledy, are you okay?" And I said, "Yeah, I'm fine. Why?" And she said, "Well, I'm sitting here with Brandon, and he said you asked in God last night." And I said, "Your what?" I just, I was like, "What would you say his name was again?" And she said, "Brandon, one of the autistic boys I was telling you about." And I said, Okay, where are you located? And she said, I'm in East Texas, which was almost three hours away from where I was.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  And I said, give me the address. I'm coming your way. I was so in shock because she goes, I'm sitting here with Brandon and he came over and asked me to contact you.

• 12:13Ky Dickens?

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• 12:58Ky Dickens?

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• 13:55Ky Dickens?

  Okay, so you were a nail tech in a nail salon. Amy was one of your clients. Amy's aunt worked in a special needs classroom in Texas.

• 14:03Speaker 02

  Yes, in East Texas.

• 14:05Ky Dickens?

  East Texas, and one of her students was a seven-year-old named Brandon.

• 14:08Speaker 02

  And I guess they did all this typing together. He had told her to contact me and ask if I was okay. So I drive all the way to East Texas. When I got there, Brandon's mother opened the door and said, "So you're Elodie." And in the meantime, as she's looking at me, I'm seeing all these six other autistic kids and all their parents in the background of the home in her house. She goes, "Brandon's been talking about you for months." And I'm like, again, I'm in shock and I'm just, I'm walking in so in shock and dumbfounded. She goes, "Well, come in," she said, "we got to figure out why Brandon's contacted you. We're used to this, but clearly you're not." And I'm like, "Oh, my God."

• 14:51Speaker 02

  So I walk in and of course Amy's there with her aunt, all the kids, the parents, and they're so used to these things happening amongst them that, you know, they, they kind of were giggling at how shocked, in shock I was, right? She said, "We just have to figure out why he's contacted you."

• 15:10Ky Dickens?

  Did, did Brandon's mom explain? So it sounded like before the night he came to you and talked to you telepathically, it sounded like he was actually tapping in and aware of you and your pain month before that. Well, first of all, did Brandon's, was he, could he communicate via speaking? Or did he spell to communicate?

• 15:28Speaker 02

  It was all in typing. And it's interesting because I actually had the experience of him sitting on my lap and all I did was lift up his wrist like this. And I just barely put my finger under there and he, he went to it. I just followed him and he typed and he typed quite fast.

• 15:48Ky Dickens?

  How old was he at the time?

• 15:50Speaker 02

  He was seven, eight years old.

• 15:52Ky Dickens?

  Did he say why he first came to you or found you? How did he first know that you were even there and suffering somewhere?

• 15:58Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't have an answer to that. I really think that he might have connected through Amy's aunt because she was his teacher for Amy. And then Amy connected with me and it kind of went down. And Brandon said, he told Amy, his mom mentioned this as well. He contacted me on the lollipop line. That's what he called it. And of course, this was in, I believe it was 92.

• 16:25Ky Dickens?

  What did he mean by lollipop line?

• 16:27Speaker 02

  So, you know, in listening to the telepathy tapes and the children talking about the hill, that was his, what he called like the hill is the lollipop line and how they communicate with each other. He said he talks to his friends and his family and everybody through the lollipop line. And that's how he contacted me. So I've always loved that because I thought, so it was interesting to hear the hill because I was waiting to hear about the lollipop line.

• 16:58Ky Dickens?

  Wow. And what year was this?

• 17:00Speaker 02

  92, I believe it was right, right, either right at the end of 91 or I think it was at the beginning of 92.

• 17:09Ky Dickens?

  Wow. So he was talking about the hill and calling it the lollipop line like 35 years ago. Wow. Holy cow. And after that, did you ever contemplate suicide again?

• 17:19Speaker 02

  No, no, no, Brandon, Brandon sealed the deal for me. It came in like, almost like an immediate lesson. Don't forget why you're here. And that was it. That was it. It was a boom.

• 17:32Ky Dickens?

  Has Brandon, have you ever talked with him since?

• 17:34Speaker 02

  No, I lost track, but I still have a picture with them in the classroom. I did see Amy after that. I asked what was going on and she said something about that they shut the program down because there was something happening somewhere else, somebody saying about abuse. And so that they had shut the program down and they weren't able to work with them like that anymore. And I was devastated.

• 18:01Ky Dickens?

  The first fallout of the facilitated communication scandals. And it truly devastated lives, people who were communicating. And it's just so devastating to think of all those people that were, were made to stop communicating, you know?

• 18:14Speaker 02

  I was really sad.

• 18:19Ky Dickens?

  After you had your near-death experience, for you in particular, what quote-unquote "spiritual gifts" were heightened?

• 18:26Speaker 02

  I guess my ability to connect with the other side. It shot through the roof. I know that always kind of happened, but not to the extent until after my near-death. And the first time I had an experience with that, I just remember just it being so clear. However, Kai, I just didn't know that this didn't happen to everybody else. So I didn't really make that big a deal about it. I just would tell my stories of, oh, this happened to me last night, and this happened to me, until one time I had one of my friends look at me. She goes, "You know, this is not normal, Elodie, right?" I was in shock when she told me that. I said, "Surely, you've had experiences with ghosts or spirits and the other side." And she goes, "No, never."

• 19:11Speaker 02

  And I just remember thinking that was so odd.

• 19:14Ky Dickens?

  So when you're getting the messages from someone on the other side, and you're doing medium work, does it come through telepathy, like you're hearing their voices? Do you see them in front of you? Is it like you're receiving messages that you just have to decode? Are you seeing images? Like, how does it work for you?

• 19:29Speaker 02

  One of my favorite questions, and it's an excellent question. So for me, it comes in layers of thoughts, feelings, impressions, sometimes pictures, emotions. It depends for me personally. I don't know about other mediums, but it depends how they were here in the physical form. So if they were more of a hands-on type of person or visual person, I might get more pictures. If they were more emotional, I might get more emotions. But it does come in layers for me. So I can put that kind of picture together. Sometimes I hear words and thoughts. So, you know, that's when it becomes easy for me to say a name or, you know, things like that that come through.

• 20:14Speaker 02

  It really depends for me on the communicator on the other side.

• 20:18Ky Dickens?

  So that's what's so fascinating. So that tracks with every medium I've ever interviewed or who's written in to tell kind of their stories. What's fascinating is you seeing the spirits often in a room, because I know for a few non-speakers that I've spent time with and that were even featured in telepathy tapes. They can often have really scary situations where they're seeing someone. And what is that? I mean, is that like just a ghost? And then what is a ghost? And then why, why do the medium people not come as a ghost? Do you know what I mean? Like, what's the difference in these forms?

• 20:51Speaker 02

  I really believe Kai, that has to do with vibration. I see it in my mind's eye. So I can look at a, a room and see the room as it is in our physical sense. And then in my mind's eye, in the room, I see a person. And sometimes for me, i- if you were to look straightforward, but um, there is somebody sitting in your peripheral vision. You might not be able to make out their, their details of their face, but you know, they're blonde. You know, they're, you know, certain height and things like that. So that's how I'll sometimes get that information.

• 21:26Ky Dickens?

  But it does seem like mediumship for people who truly have the gift like you. There is an element of telepathy involved because you're communicating with someone without a body.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  It's all telepathy and I have done sessions where I'm communicating with somebody's mom. And that woman is saying, you are, you have my mom, but she is still living. And then they'll say she has Alzheimer and has been non-verbal for years. So this is why when I, when I sent you that email, this, it's very important to me to not only acknowledge these autistic kids, but every non-verbal person that is existing now in their physical body that cannot speak. We are leaving people in hospitals where we think they're, they're not even existing and they're, they're there. But nobody's acknowledging that.

• 22:17Ky Dickens?

  How often have you experienced this with someone with Alzheimer's?

• 22:20Speaker 02

  Quite a, quite a few times, maybe I'm communicating with a father that is passed on the other side. And then all of a sudden I'm starting to communicate with the mother. And one lady even said, I know you have my mother because you're describing everything, but she's still here. And there was one that was in a coma. I mean, she's still living, but they didn't even think she was listening or hearing anything. So now they know, or they did after that.

• 22:45Ky Dickens?

  I mean, it's just such a gift that people can realize that because if your loved one, if you're assuming that they're not there and they're not hearing. Just how scary what could come out of your mouth, or the level of hope or peace that you're bringing in that room. You know?

• 23:00Speaker 02

  It's so interesting you say that because in when you were talking on the telepathy tapes about that, that is one thing I've known ever since I came out of my near death, that anything I speak, anything I say is heard and felt by the whole. And after my experience, I always tell people it's like a big, we're a big spider web. You know how spider webs have those little sections and we could be so far from the other section, but we're connected to the whole. In your telepathy tapes, these children talk about that people won't have the ability to use their gifts if they're not genuine, and that is absolutely 1,000% true.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  It's a genuine coming from the heart and love and caring and connection. And you just don't want to say anything that could harm somebody's soul, even though they can't hear it.

• 23:55Ky Dickens?

  What a story, what a profoundly beautiful story of just the spider web of being super interconnected.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity. I, I really appreciate you looking into this and doing what you do.

• 24:10Ky Dickens?

  When I got off Zoom with Elodie, I was a bit stunned because she told me something I'd never heard before, which was that people in a coma or with Alzheimer's or dementia reach out to her telepathically and communicate with her, almost in a way that mediums describe or the non-speakers with telepathy describe. So in my mind, it was like, well, if that is true, it should be looked into if it hasn't been already, because then it means that our consciousness truly does expand outside of our mind. So immediately I called Dr. Julia Mossbridge, a cognitive neuroscientist and experimental psychologist who specializes in consciousness. And to be honest, she's like my neuroscientist on speed dial and, and helps me make sense of things when I just can't.

• 24:53Ky Dickens?

  And even though I was explaining this to Dr. Mossbridge and saying, oh, my gosh, have you ever heard anything like this? She took it in stride and told me she's heard this type of thing before and that I should speak to Lloyd Auerbach before releasing this episode.

• 25:08Speaker 04

  I'm Lloyd Auerbach. I'm a parapsychologist. I focus on education as well as field investigation. And I've been in the field of parapsychology for well over 40 years at this point.

• 25:18Ky Dickens?

  And so Lloyd's story builds on Alady's claim that consciousness of those who are sick or comatose or have dementia may meaningfully extend beyond the body. But this story takes it even further and again, left my jaw on the ground.

• 25:39Speaker 04

  I'm president of the Ren Research Center's Board of Directors and president of the Forever Family Foundation.

• 25:45Ky Dickens?

  Well, you have a story that was very interesting to me and brought to my attention by Julia Mossbridge. Can you share that with me?

• 25:54Speaker 04

  So this took place back in the 19, mid 1980s. It's actually kind of toward the end of a time period when John F. Kennedy University here in the San Francisco Bay Area had a graduate parapsychology program and I was on faculty. So we get a call at the department from a woman. She and her husband had moved in a few months before to an 80-year-old home in Marin County. It was one of two homes originally built 80 years before by two Scottish immigrant brothers. The other one was up the street from them. Sue, the woman in the couple, so it was Sue and her husband, and they had two little kids, three and four years old. Sue noticed a small girl about five or six years old

• 26:38Speaker 04

  who had appeared in the house. She was there playing with the boys and asked who she was and she disappeared for the first time in front of her. But she kept coming back. And Playing with the boys, more importantly, following Sue around like Sue was her mother or something. To a point where Sue said that on occasion she would follow her upstairs, through the kitchen, hang out with her in the kitchen, never really talk, so she would respond, but not verbally. And even followed her at one point when they were, she was taking the boys shopping, into the car on the driveway, but disappear from the back of the car as she drove away from the house.

• 27:18Ky Dickens?

  So Sue is the mom, she's got two little boys, and all of them were seeing this girl.

• 27:23Speaker 04

  The husband was not seeing the girl, but he was taking the soul in stride because the boy saw her, Sue saw her.

• 27:29Ky Dickens?

  Okay, so there's a little girl who appears in this old house to the mom Sue, and to her two little boys. And she appears and disappears. And what I love is that this is not a ghost story. So, you get a call at the university and go and look into this.

• 27:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, the first time I was there was with two of my grad students. Nothing had ever shown up, and the place is haunted. At one point Sue went looking around the house, just in case in the attic, anything she could find that might have been left over from the original owners, and she happened to find some photographs, some old photographs, of two little girls from decades before on a swing set. And one of them, the younger one, looked like the little girl who was being seen.

• 28:16Ky Dickens?

  What?

• 28:17Speaker 04

  So Sue thought that perhaps this was the deceased daughter, one of the deceased daughters of the original owners of their house.

• 28:25Ky Dickens?

  So then, did you, could you find like an old neighbor or someone who could help you determine who was in the picture?

• 28:31Speaker 04

  We did find out that the family living up the street from them in the other original home, it was actually the grandson apparently of one of the original brothers, the one who built that house up the street. So at my suggestion, she went up the street and talked to the grandson of that family, showed them the pictures, pointed to the little girl, told her, told them about the ghost, and the guy says, "Well, no, it can't be her, she's upstairs."

• 29:00Speaker 04

  That's my cousin. She's upstairs. She's, she's in, in home hospice care. She has terminal cancer. She has a, you know, a caregiver up there and she's upstairs. So Sue came down, kicked down back down to her house, called me. And we arranged for her to go up and meet the woman who was in hospice, home hospice care. She took the boys, Sue took, Sue took her two sons with her. When she walked in the room, she waited to make sure that the home caregiver, that nurse actually said she is awake. Cause apparently the woman was in and out of consciousness. She was not constantly awake.

• 29:41Speaker 04

  She was in pain. So she was on painkillers and she was in and out of consciousness. So they waited for a time that she was awake and clear. And they basically just walked in when she was awake. The woman looked up and said, oh, you're that nice lady from down the street.

• 29:59Speaker 04

  And she said hello to the two young boys by name. She called them by their first names. So Sue gets real curious, like, how do you know this? And she said, well, I dream about you. I dream that I'm still a little girl in my childhood home and I go down and visit. And you look just like my mother. Now, this is a really interesting thing. Sue had found pictures of the mother, the wife of the guy who built the house. And there was a really strong resemblance to Sue. I mean, they could have been sisters, if not almost twins. So this continued in a couple of different ways. Sue and the kids had a sort of established a relationship with the woman.

• 30:41Speaker 04

  And the apparition of the woman when she was a young girl, little girl, would still appear down the street.

• 30:51Speaker 04

  One thing that happened, though, changed because Sue called me at one point and said, she's appeared as an adult. She looks like she's in real pain. I said, you need to call the nurse and find out what's going on because obviously something is happening. And so Sue calls the nurse and said, the nurse says, well, we changed your pain medication. And Sue, just thinking on her feet, said, tell them to change it back. She's obviously in a lot of pain, or at least ask her, and she was in a lot of pain. So after, apparently, the medication was changed back, the little girl starts appearing again. The woman's still going in and out of consciousness, sleeping, waking up, talking about dreaming about the kids, all of that stuff.

• 31:34Speaker 04

  And I was able to speak to the nurse and get kind of a logbook, a chronology of when she was unconscious and when Sue saw the apparition. And it was always when the woman was asleep or unconscious in some way. So it was never when she was awake. So she was dreaming about it and apparently going out of body and appearing that way. Though at one point, Sue did hear from the family that it looked like she was towards the end of her life. So Sue actually said something to the little girl, which was, you need to save your energy for yourself, not come out and see us all the time. In the meantime, I just mentioned that they had been up there many times.

• 32:17Speaker 04

  And again, the woman did say that she was dreaming about this. So eventually Sue, like I said, told her to put her energy together. She went up there and made sure that was clear to her when she was awake as well. And at that point, the little girl's ghost disappeared. Shortly after, she found out that she had died. She never came back again. She did not appear after she had actually physically passed away.

• 32:48Ky Dickens?

  So what was hap- is that like her higher self? Or is it like bilocation? Or what was that?

• 32:55Speaker 04

  Well, I, I think bilocation would be the closest term you could use. We have a long history in parapsychology, psychical research back to the, the 19th century of what are called apparitions of the living. Many of those seem to connect to people having an out of body experience, whether in a dream or spontaneously otherwise. And on occasion, it's when it's someone who has learned to do out of body work and travel somewhere and they're, they have a conscious experience with someone that's there. So that's the closest we can come to this. The other category of living apparitions would happen when somebody is in, uh, physical trauma, is in an accident or severe illness and they appear looking like they're in pain or, or distress to a loved one.

• 33:39Speaker 04

  It seems to be some sort of projection as opposed to an actual travel out of body.

• 33:44Ky Dickens?

  Have you experienced this with Alzheimer's ever where someone travels or bilocates? Or?

• 33:50Speaker 04

  I have not heard that, heard of specific cases where the person had Alzheimer's. I would expect, however, if someone did have that part of their consciousness that actually left, that there wouldn't be necessarily any sort of symptoms of Alzheimer's because the brain is not getting in the way at that point. There, there are those cases of deathbed visions where, you know, people who are dying see, see an apparition in hospice and they have Alzheimer's, but they suddenly have hyper lucid moments. They come out of that, that state. I mean, in my work with, when she was, she passed away of cancer in 2011, I talked to her husband, she, a couple of her students were there as well. And she had been heavily sedated because she was in extreme pain. She woke up, contrary to what the doctor said she could possibly do.

• 34:33Speaker 04

  She woke up, had a conversation with her husband and the students and her parents who were deceased, who were there. The hospice worker witnessed all of this. Then she said, okay, it's time for me to go. And she slipped back into unconsciousness and passed away. So there was nothing physical in her body that would allow her to surpass the sedation at that point.

• 34:52Ky Dickens?

  Gosh, it's so wild. Thank you, Lloyd, for hopping on the phone with me so quickly.

• 34:57Speaker 04

  Absolutely. Happy to do so.

• 34:59Ky Dickens?

  So this opens up a lot. For me, I've never comprehended this facet of telepathy or consciousness travel, or whatever you might call it. And yet, it does seem to offer more insights into how our minds might expand well beyond our body. And things become even more remarkable, because when I shared Lloyd's story with my team, they told me that they've been getting emails about telepathy being unlocked in individuals who suffered a stroke, or who were in a coma, or who have dementia or Alzheimer's disease. So remarkably, this theme has pushed itself into our periphery, and we will do another episode on this for sure. On Friday, we'll be re-releasing Episode 6, a story about a husband named Dan Gurke,

• 35:42Ky Dickens?

  who found out he could telepathically communicate with his wife who had Alzheimer's. This is maybe the most important listening homework, before our final two episodes begin to drop, starting on Monday, December 22.