Part Two: Before the Big Bang: God, Alien Life & The Operating System of Reality | Dr. Brian Keating

What if EVERYTHING we know about reality is missing a deeper operating system? In this episode of Mayim Bialik's Breakdown, Dr. Brian Keating (professor of physics, experimental cosmologist, and host of the Into the Impossible podcast) dives into the biggest unanswered questions in science, consciousness, God, the Big Bang, extraterrestrial life, simulation theory, and the hidden limits of human knowledge. Dr. Keating breaks down: - Why humanity NEEDS a Grand Unified Theory before we can ever reach a true “Theory of Everything”, and how scientists are trying to uncover the operating system of reality itself - “A telescope is a time machine”: How looking into deep space is literally looking backward through time toward the origins of existence - Shocking scientific and philosophical implications of the Big Bang, and the terrifying question: What was BEFORE time? - Could another universe have collapsed to create ours? - Why studying space-time itself may unlock secrets hidden before the beginning of the universe - Why the Big Bang explains the expanding universe, and where modern cosmology still breaks down - How Dr. Keating reconciles being both a scientist & a person of faith - Can God & science coexist? How God may tie into the creation of the universe through a scientific lens - Why God’s existence should not be subjected to scientific testing - Hidden limits of both religion AND scientific data - Where consciousness may actually come from according to modern physics - Why the role of scientists is not to “prove” things - Why even world-famous scientists secretly struggle with imposter syndrome - Deistic implications of the Simulation Hypothesis, and whether reality itself could be engineered - Search for extraterrestrial life: why we still have ZERO confirmed evidence despite viral claims - Debunking alleged “signs of life” on Mars and separating science from speculation - His take on the mysterious deaths and disappearances of U. S. scientists connected to nuclear & aerospace research - Could unexplained events be connected to UAPs, nonhuman intelligence, or classified technology? - Cattle mutilations, alleged energy weapons, and why unexplained phenomena always breed suspicion - Why uncertainty is one of the most dangerous (and fascinating) forces in human civilization This episode explores the edge where cosmology, philosophy, consciousness, religion, and the unknown collide. If you’re fascinated by the Big Bang, aliens, simulation theory, UAPs, consciousness, physics, God, or the future of humanity, this conversation will completely change how you think about reality itself! Substack newsletter & transcript: https://briankeating.substack.com//mbbMayim's viewers only — win a real 4.3-billion-year-old meteorite: https://briankeating.com/mbbDr. Brian Keating’s podcast, Into the Impossible: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJGKdZD30K_9rVCDAdRSwoJLi5ls6JN-qDr. Brian Keating’s books: https://briankeating.com/books/ Follow us on Substack for Exclusive Bonus Content: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://bialikbreakdown.substack.com/%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BialikBreakdown.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.bialikbreakdown.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube.com/mayimbialik⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/mayimbialik%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0 See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Mayim Bialik?

  Hi, I'm Iyan Bialik.

• 0:05Jonathan Cohen?

  I'm Jonathan Cohen.

• 0:06Mayim Bialik?

  And welcome to part two of our conversation with physicist Dr. Brian Keating. Part one of our conversation should not be missed, and in part two, we're going to talk about God's existence. Can we subject it to scientific tests? Imposter syndrome that every famous scientist in history has experienced, the search for extraterrestrial life, and I cannot help but ask about cattle mutilations, and could they be connected to aliens? Here is part two of our conversation with Dr. Brian Keating.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  Break it down.

• 0:39Speaker 03

  Theory of everything, so first of all, I think that God's existence should be subjected to scientific tests. Now, this, I get into trouble, you know, I'm wearing this funny hat, right? So like, people say like, no, you should have perfect faith. I believe in, you know, Ani, Mami, I believe in perfect faith of God, and all these things are going to happen. And no, I'm sorry, I can't do that. You might be able to believe that. You might be able to believe, you know, certain things, but, but, you know, my sense, I don't like to have belief, but I don't think we should limit God by saying what he, what evidence he should be subjected to. So if you do, you know, kind of assert that, you're basically saying you can't question God. And there are a lot of bad things said, you know, by, by, you know, religious atheist, by atheists that are almost religious in nature, like some of those dogmatic people, Sam Harris, I know you've had on, I've had him

• 1:24Speaker 03

  on my show, Richard Dawkins, I hosted him in person in your home nation last year. And none of them, without exception, have a familiarity beyond like, the basics that you might get in a yeshiva or in a Sunday school, because what do they do? Most people like Lawrence Krauss, most famous, you know, kind of the militant new atheist who wrote a book called A Universe From Nothing, which we later come to find, nothing ain't nothing, but, but we can discuss that some other time, right? His, his main notion is that this is, religion is damaging, it's so, he's Jewish, he had a bar mitzvah, and then for most Jewish boys, Carl Sagan, Stephen Jay Gould, Sam Harris, the bar mitzvah that they have had, that I never had, that they had, is the graduation. It's the getting out of prison.

• 2:10Speaker 03

  It signifies I'm never setting foot in that temple.

• 2:13Mayim Bialik?

  All the boys left synagogue when we were 13.

• 2:15Speaker 03

  They all leave it, right? But, but, you know, for me, I came back to it very late in life. And, and, and so I think I have a deeper, more adult perspective on it. But they're left with this frozen, calcified, sclerotic view. But, but I always say to them, I said, Lawrence, would you? Because I've interviewed many, many times. And, and I love these people, but, but, but I have to be honest with them. I can't, I'm not going to pull punches because I want to have some big name guest on my show. I say, look, would you accept this refutation of a universe from nothing? From some 13 year old Pisha? You know, as my grandfather used to say. May he rest in peace. No, he wouldn't accept that. Why not? Because he hasn't done the research. He hasn't had enough experience. But you, here you are, accepting this refutation of the existence of God, based on the testimonials and the evidence of a 13 year old, i.e. you, 50, 60 years ago.

• 3:00Speaker 03

  It's infantile. You would never do it. And so I think it's intellectually dishonest.

• 3:04Mayim Bialik?

  I, I agree. I mean, I think, you know, to, to take sort of this other side, which is not just a devil's advocate position. But I think that one of the, the problems is that so many of us as humans confuse religion with God. And we confuse the, the limitations of humans, which in many cases, you know, like, call it the patriarchy, call it capitalism. There's many, many reasons why large structures that involve rules, restrictions, allegiance and membership, don't tend to meet the needs of people as a whole. And so this is sort of what I think is important. And what we love about speaking to all kinds of physicists in particular,

• 3:48Mayim Bialik?

  is that there is a pattern in the universe that does not care who you bow down to. And there's a pattern in the universe that doesn't care whether you believe in gravity or not. And there's a pattern in the universe that has a rhythm to a feeling inside of you that is the feeling of, ah, right? And it's when you see beautiful mountains. It's when you see a child being born. It's when you see someone die. It's when you see someone on the side of the road and their body is broken. That feeling in you that you are alive, that does not care. It doesn't care. And so this notion of like, oh, religion's killed so many people. No, people have killed a lot of people in the name of religion.

• 4:32Mayim Bialik?

  That's not the oneness that we're looking to see in the fractal patterns of the universe. That notion of like, oh, you know, when, when we have biologists and psychologists telling us like, find that feeling in yourself that makes you feel like something is blooming, something is alive. Like, that's true with a capital T. And depending on where your DNA landed you and who raped who and who ended up where in terms of your genetic line, you're scattered all over this messy, messy world. For, for like a fraction of a nothing here, right? After 11:30 PM, 11:59 PM that we, you know, appeared on the calendar. But also this notion of like, there's beauty, there's shards of light, right?

• 5:17Mayim Bialik?

  In the kind of kabbalistic tradition, there's shards of light that are scattered all over the universe. And we get to bring them back. And you get to look through a telescope made by a 3D, like what? And you're looking at these shards and bringing them back together. And everybody gets to do it in their own way. Like, no one has that right. And any person who tells you they know what God wants is not to be listened to.

• 5:41Speaker 03

  Anyone who says you cannot question it, even if it is your religion, quote unquote, or their religion.

• 5:47Mayim Bialik?

  Correct.

• 5:47Speaker 03

  If you cannot falsify it and you can't assert that it may be fallible, then to me, it's, it's like a hobby with a yarmulke and some kugel on Saturdays, right?

• 5:58Mayim Bialik?

  That's right.

• 5:59Speaker 03

  It's, it's no more than that.

• 6:00Mayim Bialik?

  Well, and Buddha said, believe nothing. Believe nothing, even if I say it, unless it is true. I mean, I'm roughly paraphrasing, but unless it is true for you, unless you find comfort in it. And that's like what's, even when we spoke to Sadhvi, right? She was raised in one tradition, she found truth in another. But it doesn't mean there was a betrayal. It's all just one. And if you pull far enough back, if you pull light years back, right? It's all the same, like that's. The oneness.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Which is maybe what you were asking before, John. I wish it was to say like, if, if this is sort of dovetailing with science, then, you know, what happens if you found scientific evidence, you know, that God doesn't exist? Or, you know, like, would you, I, my son asked me that the other day, you know, would you abandon the Torah? Would you abandon Judaism? And I said, no, I said, they're completely different things to me. And yes, if you can find something, you know, I, I don't believe, as most people do, I think that there's so much harm done by these professional religious clerics in our world. Maybe it's the rabbis of the Talmud or whatever. But, but the notion that we can't question them, I say is complete nonsense. In fact, I quote in my book, it's actually religiously forbidden to do what I do, according to the Talmud, because it says about,

• 7:15Speaker 03

  you know, what came at the, at the beginning of time, you may ask, but what came before those days, you're forbidden to ask. And I said, good thing they weren't grading my NSF grant, you know, because I probably wouldn't have gotten it. You know, so I, I hate the notion of questions that you can't ask. There's a whole bunch of questions you can't answer, and that's my job is to, is to either be wrong or fail and not, not be able to answer something, right? But, but the notion that you can't question something, and there are some glib things like, you know, that, that were said, Feynman or Carl Sagan, one of the two Jewish, you know, atheists that I've mentioned so far. They say like, I'd rather have, you know, questions that I can't answer than answers I can't question. That's so simple. So the very word, as you know, and maybe John, you know too, but, but the word Israel,

• 8:00Speaker 03

  it doesn't mean submission to God. That's what Islam means. Israel means fights with God. You have to ask these questions and you have to be open to the fact that your favorite pet theory about aliens or near-death experiences, or, you know, consciousness and astral planes and all the other stuff that you've talked about many times with other guests that I might disagree with on a scientific factual basis. I can't disagree on an experiential basis, but I would disagree on a factual, scientific, empirical basis.

• 8:24Mayim Bialik?

  Sure.

• 8:25Speaker 03

  And they have to be open to that, too. You can't just assert these things and say like, well, you have to believe it because I saw with my own two eyes. I always say like, the most dangerous words in science are, are not that like, if I didn't see it, I wouldn't have believed it. It's

• 8:37Mayim Bialik?

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• 9:22Mayim Bialik?

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• 10:06Mayim Bialik?

  It's the best way to support our show.

• 10:08Speaker 03

  If I didn't believe it, I wouldn't have seen it. That's a lot of times what happens in science. It's called confirmation bias. And it's the most pernicious, destructive force in all of science.

• 10:16Mayim Bialik?

  Well, and it's also, that's what is sort of taking hold. And there's so many reasons to be, I don't mean to sound like I'm 90. There are so many reasons to be grateful for the technology we have, for computers, for social media, but it's also made-

• 10:29Speaker 03

  Can you tell that to my friend Candace Owens, please? She doesn't believe, she thinks science is fake.

• 10:33Mayim Bialik?

  No, but I think this notion that everyone is a scientist is not true. And if you see something, obviously, that doesn't mean that it's true. If lots of people say something, that also doesn't believe that it's true. So I think this is what we're interested in, especially, and Scott Barry Kaufman is a friend of ours who's a cognitive scientist at Columbia. And what he and what we are interested in and what so many of us are interested in is- If you cannot measure something the way you measure other things, right? If you're gonna tell me that something like telepathy, right? Or telepathic ability? If you're gonna tell me that it doesn't behave like anything that I can measure, you can't simultaneously be upset that people who like to measure things

• 11:18Mayim Bialik?

  don't consider that there is proof for it. And if, and, and there's many, many reasons why there are things that are difficult to replicate in a scientific setting. And as someone who used to do research, like, I know, the room is weird. It doesn't smell like home. Nothing seems normal. No one's gonna behave like they do when you're in a lab, 100%. But if you want a scientific community to engage, we need to have some way that we can have a shared language so that we can say, okay, this doesn't behave like testing the pH of, you know, this substance or whatever. I'm not gonna, you can't weigh it. You can't do all the things you do to it. You can't run a PCR on it. But we have to find ways, and I believe that we will.

• 12:02Mayim Bialik?

  I believe that there's, just like we have technology now that allows us to see things, perceive things, and experience things that we never thought possible. We're gonna get refinement of that. At some point, you do get to say, this cannot be replicated. And as you said, you cannot challenge people's experience. But anecdotal information is not the same as scientific data.

• 12:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that's a big challenge to suggest to people. Because people are used to thinking of the word "theory", like, it's just, oh, that's just your theory. That's your pet, you know, kind of hobby horse, that you're just waxing. I don't know. In, in science, theory has a very, very specific modality of its usage. And to use it in the context of like, ah, it's just your theory, or, you know, like, it's a gas, or, like, okay, you know what's a theory? The theory of general relativity. Have you ever used your GPS? Yeah, well, then you're using the theory of general relativity, because otherwise you'll be off by hundreds of meters by the time you drive down the street.

• 12:52Mayim Bialik?

  The theory of evolution.

• 12:53Speaker 03

  The theory of evolution, 100%. We have evidence for these things. They're not theories, they're not guesses, they're not... And could they be refuted? Yeah, I hope that they are refuted in some sense. You know, I don't expect that they're gonna be overturned. Look, if we knew all the science... Look, I always bring this up in my, one of my books that you have over there, right? I talk about the imposter syndrome. Because despite, as I said before, the stereotypes, to the contrary, scientists are humans, right? And humans suffer oftentimes from the imposter syndrome. You guys have talked about this before.

• 13:20Mayim Bialik?

  I'm suffering from it right now. Just in general.

• 13:23Speaker 03

  The imposter syndrome afflicts scientists in this way, and it's instructive to note that it does. Einstein had the imposter syndrome. We think of him as the greatest scientist in human history, and how could he possibly have the imposter syndrome? He said, and I quote in that book, my third, second book, Into the Impossible, Think Like a Nobel Prize Winner. I had interviewed, by the time I wrote that book, nine Nobel Prize winners. Since then, I've interviewed 23 and counting, almost as many as you guys. No, it's the one thing I can say I've done slightly more Nobel Prize winners than you have, but I didn't win a Nobel Prize, like Amy Fowler. But on the other, on the other hand, I talked to a Nobel Prize winner once named Barry Barish here at Caltech. Barry won the Nobel Prize, co-shared it, for discovering gravitational waves from colliding black holes

• 14:08Speaker 03

  a billion light years away, using the LIGO experiment, right? And he did that, and I talked to him, and at the end of every interview, I asked the same kind of, you know, it's like my conceit, I say, you know, "What would you tell yourself at age 20 to give yourself the courage to do as you've done to go into the impossible?" And he said, "I'd tell myself to get over the imposter syndrome." And I said, "You mean in the past?" And he said, "No, like, right now." He said, "Barry, you're in your late 70s. You just won the Nobel Prize a couple of years ago. You know, you're incredible. What are you talking about?" And he goes, "No, no, let me tell you something, you know, Brian, because you're never gonna win a Nobel Prize after your first book." He said, no, he's a very avuncular, I love this guy, and he wrote the foreword to this book. And he told me, and the story's in that book, he said, "Brian, when you win a Nobel Prize, you go to Stockholm,

• 14:51Speaker 03

  you have your reindeer, you know, supper, and you get dressed in the regalia of, you know, white coat and tails, and you get to meet the king of Sweden, and it's a huge, huge honor. It occurs not on Alfred Nobel's birthday, but on his death day. Two days before yours, December 10th, he died in December 10th. You'd think you'd do it on his birthday. No, no, you do it on his death day. Why? Because he had a near-death experience. Alfred Nobel had a near-death experience. It's the only one I believe in.

• 15:24Mayim Bialik?

  What?

• 15:25Speaker 03

  Alfred Nobel.

• 15:25Mayim Bialik?

  You're not allowed to only believe in one. If you believe in one, you believe in them all.

• 15:30Speaker 03

  Okay, so Alfred Nobel was walking around Paris one day in 1889, I believe it was. He was walking around Paris, he was never married, had no kids, had a, you know, a partner, but he had no kids, no wife. And he was walking around, he saw a headline in the Parisian newspaper. It said, "Alfred Nobel, the merchant of death is dead." The man who killed more people than any other person in history because of his invention of dynamite, which was used in the Nobel arms factories throughout Scandinavia and Russia. He killed more people than... Now, he's reading his obituary, so as Mark Twain said, "Reports of my demise have been slightly exaggerated." It was his brother Ludwig who had died.

• 16:12Speaker 03

  So he realized at that moment, like Scrooge and many other people get that realization, "A wonderful life." It's a wonderful life, yeah. Bailey, or... Yeah, George Bailey. That he had a gift, a glimpse into how the world was going to remember him, and it was going to remember him as a scumbag arms dealer who killed people, right? So he resolved, resolved at that time to create a will, which would not only be for scientific discoveries, they had to very specifically be for the benefit of all humankind. And that's why it has one for peace and literature, also has chemistry and medicine. I mean, think about, the first Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded to Wilhelm Lorenkin, and it was awarded for the discovery of the X-ray.

• 16:54Speaker 03

  He invented... Think how many lives have been improved, cancers discovered, tumors, because of the X-ray, and that's what he wanted. So, he had a near-death experience. When Barry won the Nobel Prize, Barry Barris getting back to the... He goes to Stockholm, and you get this giant medal, not unlike the medal you're gonna get in a little bit, stay tuned. Is that 3D printed too? Foreshadowing, yeah. So you go there, you get this giant medal, solid gold, and you get, you get a fraction or maybe the whole, 1.2 million dollars, and you get a certificate and a painting of your face, so it's a really splendid ceremony. And Barry showed it to me, he lives in Santa Monica, and he showed it. And he said, "Brian, you have to sign this logbook, testifying that you did get your golden medal, your million dollars, and your certificate, so that people don't come back

• 17:36Speaker 03

  and say, 'Hey, yo, where's my money?'" You know, like that, right? So they make you sign a book. So he's a curious character, Barry is. So he turns the page, and "Who won it before?" And he looks back, he sees, you know, Marie Curie. He sees Richard Feynman at Caltech, and he sees Albert Einstein, and he sees their actual signature from 1922.

• 17:55Speaker 03

  Albert's signature, staring him in the face, mocking him, and he says, "I am not fit to be in the same universe as Albert Einstein. How could I possibly be in here? I'm an imposter, I don't belong here." I said, "Barry, I've got good news and good news." When we did our interview, I said, "Barry, did you know that Einstein had the imposter syndrome?" He goes, "You gotta be kidding me." He said, "Isaac Newton contributed more to science." By the way, science was Newton's side hustle, right? He wrote more about alchemy and religion than he wrote about science. But anyway, and calculus, right? He said, "Isaac Newton did more for science and math and all of human civilization than any man before or since, including Einstein." And I said, "But that's not all, Barry."

• 18:40Speaker 03

  Because Isaac Newton had the imposter syndrome. Now he said, "Oh, you gotta be, now you're just kidding me." What could, how could Newton say that he had the imposter syndrome? And it turns out Isaac Newton worshipped, in many ways, Jesus Christ. So much so, that he tried to emulate him in all the ways that he could, which were very miniscule, right? He couldn't turn loaves into fishes, he couldn't turn water into wine.

• 19:03Mayim Bialik?

  The ultimate alchemist.

• 19:04Speaker 03

  But he could, you know what he could do? He could die a virgin. And he did. Now, some say his personality helped with that, you know? He died a virgin, yes. Newton died a virgin. He said it was his greatest accomplishment. He was the most Christ-like as possible. Now, I don't know if Christ has a, you know, one of my professor friends, you know, made a joke about, "How do you choose your advisor in grad school?" He was like, he's, it's just like, it's more important who your advisor is than what you study. In that way, you want to try to emulate Jesus, right? It's like who your advisor is.

• 19:33Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah, I get it.

• 19:35Speaker 03

  I didn't say it was my joke. Okay, so, in that case, yes, imposter syndrome is real. It affects scientists as much as any other person on Earth.

• 19:43Jonathan Cohen?

  Scientists and artists.

• 19:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely, right? We're not good enough, we're not, right?

• 19:48Mayim Bialik?

  Let's pull back. Talk a little bit about, you know, the topic that I'm sure everybody asks you about. Is there life in the universe? And you've, you've kind of dropped some hints that there's so much specialness to us. And also, if there are trillions upon trillions of stars and planets and galaxies and all the things, how on earth, right? Outside of a religious explanation that we're chosen by God, which we're going to set aside, how on earth are we supposed to sort of conceptualize this?

• 20:17Speaker 03

  It's good that you bring up how on earth, because one of the places that I had probably the most, you know, weird, bizarre, unusual, but also almost transformational religious experience was at the bottom of the world, at the South Pole in Antarctica. Antarctica is a continent, which means that if you drill down deep enough under the ice, under the snow, you hit rock. It's an actual honest to goodness continent. Unlike the North Pole, if you drill down under ice, there you go, the ocean, right? The North Pole or ocean.

• 20:41Mayim Bialik?

  There's whales and things.

• 20:42Speaker 03

  There's Santa Claus, you kill him. Kills Mrs. Claus, but the elves die. Uh, it's horrible. Uh, but I've been there and it's a size of about, you know, uh, about a third of the United States. It's a huge continent, okay? When I'm there, I could be like, you know, I, I was in fact, the only like practicing Jew on an entire continent, okay? You know, say what you want about the Middle East or whatever, like, you know, there's Jews everywhere, right? There's Abad there, there's no Abad at the bottom of the world at South Pole. I was the only one there, right? And it's just incredible to think about how desolate it is. There was only 235 other people there in the entire part of the South Pole where I was. And it's 700 miles away from civilization where there's a whopping thousand people.

• 21:23Speaker 03

  So the whole continent, there's a thousand, maybe 1,200 people at maximum in the summertime, which is when I'm there, the sun's up all the time.

• 21:30Mayim Bialik?

  All the time?

• 21:32Speaker 03

  The sun's up all the time. After, after the beginning of summer.

• 21:35Mayim Bialik?

  How do you know when to go night night?

• 21:37Speaker 03

  When you go night night? It's very difficult, actually. The sleep there is almost impossible. You're at high elevation, 9,000 feet above sea level, so you have to pee all the time. And, uh, and it's bright. The sun just makes a circle around the sky 24 hours a day, seven days a week, until eventually on March 3rd, March 21st, it goes below the horizon. And that's the first day of fall at the South Pole.

• 21:56Mayim Bialik?

  Right, yeah, yeah.

• 21:57Speaker 03

  And it comes up on September 21st. The first day of fall here, spring there. So it's not, but it doesn't get pitch dark, right?

• 22:04Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 22:04Speaker 03

  When the sun sets here, it doesn't go black, right? So it's like, but it does go pitch darker on July. Anyway, I'm not there in July. My wife doesn't like it, right? I've got, I have chores to do. So at the South Pole, there's a thousand people, called a thousand people there. Now, it's one-seventh of the Earth's landmass, surfaces, continents, right? So you'd expect roughly, if you just had a Bayesian, if you just had a probabilistic estimate, how much of the population, there should be about a billion people that live there. No, there's not. So when people make these arguments that there's a trillion stars in our own galaxy, and each one has 10 planets, or David Kipping, my friend David Kipping was on recently talking about, the possibility is not probability, okay? We have zero evidence that UAPs are actually coming from other civilizations that are advanced technologically, somehow don't make it past the 405 and, you know, crash off Santa Catalina Island and do tic-tac maneuvers.

• 22:49Mayim Bialik?

  Also, why are they crashing? They don't know how to drive.

• 22:51Speaker 03

  It's like, they made it here. He was saying, you know, your, your most recent guest, Kevin Canute, who's a wonderful, you know, physicist and a brilliant guy, you know, saying that these things defy the laws of physics. They live one light day away from the Earth, and then they come and visit the Earth. Okay, you know what else is one light day away, almost? It's, or one day away, you know, China, right? So, so let's leave aside those things. But possibility of life, I admit, there's possibility, there's possibility there could be a billion people in Antarctica. There's more than enough room, but there's not, okay? So you have to deal, when confronted by a brutal fact, that your anecdotes, your estimates, they're worthless. We have a sample of one. And from statistics, you know, if you do a calculation, statistics, oftentimes you have one over the number minus one, right? So you compute the standard deviation, you compute the average.

• 23:36Speaker 03

  So N minus one for N equals one is zero, so you blow up, right? You cannot compute an expectation from a sample of one. Now, if we found life somewhere else, even on Mars, okay? Our closest and most Earth-like of our celestial neighbors, in the habitable zone, could have liquid water on it, has a lot of raw materials on it, did have liquid water, had flowing rivers and mountains and all sorts of volcanic activity. We see no evidence of life, we see no evidence of technology there. Although reportedly, when they sent one of the rovers into the caves there on Mars, they found inscription, you guys heard about this, on the walls of the Martian lava cave? You didn't hear that? It had just four words. Please like and subscribe. Come on, you gotta, you gotta know that that's what we're gonna find on Mars.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  Now, speaking of Mars, I like to use this as an example. This is one of your many gifts today. This, Mayim, is a piece of Mars.

• 24:27Mayim Bialik?

  Oh.

• 24:27Speaker 03

  So I've talked to Elon Musk on my podcast. The only guest maybe that you guys haven't had. And he wants to die on Mars. And I said, I hope you don't die on impact.

• 24:37Jonathan Cohen?

  I've heard he wants to go to Mars, but he doesn't want to die there.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  It's almost impossible, if he could even go there, that he wouldn't die there. It's not like going to the moon. This is an honest to goodness fragment of the planet Mars. Okay? I brought the provenance certificate for you. And this is yours to keep. I gave one, I have to say, I gave one to Joe Rogan, but he smoked it. And, and I, I have a feeling you're not gonna do that, Mayim, so I'm gonna give this to you. You can touch another piece of another world. Okay?

• 25:04Mayim Bialik?

  I mean.

• 25:05Speaker 03

  Now, how did this get here?

• 25:06Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, it, it looks like shale.

• 25:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:08Mayim Bialik?

  Like, it looks like a very smooth, it's got shiny.

• 25:13Speaker 03

  It's been sliced from a bigger sample.

• 25:14Mayim Bialik?

  I'm assuming, but I'm saying it looks like a rock.

• 25:16Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah, Jonathan, take a look.

• 25:17Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, it's got a bumpy edge.

• 25:19Speaker 03

  It's got a bumpy edge.

• 25:20Mayim Bialik?

  It looks kind of like, uh, uh, uh, cheese, like a fancy cheese when it's got white on the outside.

• 25:25Jonathan Cohen?

  The breeze?

• 25:26Mayim Bialik?

  No, but like, uh, the fancier kind.

• 25:28Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 25:29Jonathan Cohen?

  Wow.

• 25:30Mayim Bialik?

  Don't take it out of its face. Get your greasy hands on it.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  Now it has life on it.

• 25:34Jonathan Cohen?

  It's beautiful.

• 25:35Speaker 03

  Now it has life on it. Isn't it beautiful?

• 25:37Jonathan Cohen?

  It really is.

• 25:38Speaker 03

  When you look at it, now how did it get here? You might wonder, how did it get here? Any theories?

• 25:43Jonathan Cohen?

  Elon didn't bring it back?

• 25:45Speaker 03

  Not yet.

• 25:47Mayim Bialik?

  Uh, panspermia?

• 25:48Speaker 03

  It got here via the 405. No, it got, it got here panspermically, the way the panspermia, I love panspermia. It's like, one of those like frost on the pumpkin. It sounds dirty, it's not dirty, okay? It's a legitimate scientific word. What is panspermia for the, for the listeners and viewers? Panspermia is a theory that life on Earth originated from outside the Earth. And was brought here by rocks, meteors, meteorites, and other things that land here. So, what I like this sample for, and the reason I collect samples of Mars and the moon and other things, is because it shows us that not only is our planet active, our solar system's active. We've been exchanging material with all the planets in the solar system. Since the time in which the solar system really coagulated out of the primordial soup of our solar system.

• 26:33Speaker 03

  All. Pretty much, all of them. They're not too far away. I mean, it's hard to get out of Pluto. Right. When you guys talk to Neil deGrasse Tyson. Right. You know, he was, he's still kinda, you know, crowing about that. But, um, but yeah, so it's far away, but time keeps on ticking and we have no limit to how much has been exchanged. This meteorite came as a big sample, bigger sample, found in northwest Africa. The certificate is embedded inside this telescope, so you'll never forget it. And it shows it was found in northwest Africa. It has the chemical composition of parts of Mars that have been surveyed with the, Mars has surveyors that fly around it, rovers that dig into it and its composition. And the reason that looks red is because it has a certain amount of iron in it. So it's basically rusting planet. So we look at it, this will, under certain conditions, look reddish. And so the planet Earth and Mars have been exchanging material for literally billions of years.

• 27:18Speaker 03

  And some of that period of time was during the time that Mars had flowing water on it. Right? So it's almost inconceivable that we wouldn't find some evidence of life on Mars that could have come from the Earth. It's so close. Right. Now, people always assume, the interesting thing is it came backwards. It came from Mars to Earth and that's where it started. Uh, but right now, we have no evidence for it. We have no evidence whatsoever. So the possibility of it, I admit, there's a huge possibility of it. Every couple of years, people like, when I was listening to David Kipping on your show, he's just a brilliant guy, wonderful YouTube channel as well, great educator, you know, he almost looks like forlorn, you know, that he can't say, like scream from the rooftops. And, and, and that is a very dangerous situation to be in. He and I have talked about this. Because you have this temptation to, in science, find what you're seeking to find.

• 28:03Speaker 03

  The most dangerous words in science are when you say something like, eureka, I have found it, like, like Archimedes said. Because you're basically demonstrating that you had a preconceived outcome. And in that case, you're no different than the apologetics, the Christian apologists, the Jewish apologists, that will say that everything has a creator and therefore the universe can't come from nothing. It too must have been created. So that's an argument from apologetics. And in this case though, when we talk about aliens and we say, well, they could get here, but you know, they defy the laws of physics to get here. Well, I'm a physicist, you know, I can do the Dirac equation, you know, I can show you, you know, where the experimental evidence does in calibration, you know, why aren't you talking to me? And when they convene panels like that, they convene panels, my, my friend David Spergel is the president of Simon's Foundation. We started the Simon's Observatory together.

• 28:48Speaker 03

  And, you know, he convened this panel for NASA, this blue ribbon panel that found 95% of phenomena could be explained. There are 5% that couldn't. And so then the true believers, many of which I've had on my show, I believe that they've seen stuff. I believe that they've experienced them. That, as you said before, the plural of anecdote is not data, right? It is experiences, but, and you, you know, taste is not disputable, right? So in this case, we have to look, are those 5% of things, do they hide all the actual phenomena? I call that the aliens of the gaps, you know, it's like the god of the gaps, like you can explain everything using God. You know, you just insert it there, but science keeps on progressing. Like you said before, uh, you know, that, that we could find evidence for all these different phenomena,

• 29:30Speaker 03

  including near-death experiences. It's true. A hundred years ago, I couldn't do what I'm doing now because we didn't have the technology. Technology always, but you can't say future technology will allow us to fill in the gaps that we currently don't understand when it comes to things like aliens and so forth. But it is plausible, you know, that, that life could have originated on Mars or on Earth. Those are plausible, but we have no evidence for it, right?

• 29:49Mayim Bialik?

  Right.

• 29:50Speaker 03

  Doesn't mean we stop looking for it.

• 29:52Jonathan Cohen?

  How do you feel about the simulation theory?

• 29:54Speaker 03

  Ah, so I think that's part of the reason I'm here. My friend Rizwan Verk was here.

• 29:57Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, we love him.

• 29:59Speaker 03

  I love him too. Yeah, he's such a sweetheart. Um, simulation hypothesis is also a very deistic kind of approach to things. There's a master simulator, perhaps there's a base layer of reality. There's an operating system, which is kind of like the Torah, you know, for, for me. And so when I, when I think about it, you know, there, there are a whole host of different reasons, you know, questions that I'd want to ask, you know, the master simulator. I think it's an interesting speculation. I'm not as, you know, simulation maxed as, as Neil deGrasse Tyson is, basically. There are ways to, to spot, for example, evidence of it, or, you know, basically the, the, the need in the simulation hypothesis would be for infinite storage, infinite memory, and it's an extrapolation of what humanity has constructed, right?

• 30:42Mayim Bialik?

  Wait, what's your, what, what evidence? I mean, I know the type of conceptual evidence of, you know, people who have NDEs saying like, I was shown that I chose this and it's a program and we're all just like in VR headsets all the time and we just don't know it. And like, this is real, we think, but it's really not. What other evidence am I looking for that you would like?

• 31:02Speaker 03

  For the simulation?

• 31:03Mayim Bialik?

  Sure.

• 31:03Speaker 03

  Well, again, you're not going to prove it.

• 31:04Mayim Bialik?

  Like, there's no glitches. It's not like the Matrix.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  But that's the glitch. The glitch is the thing. If you have a glitch, right? That could be used as evidence for something, right?

• 31:14Mayim Bialik?

  Sure.

• 31:14Speaker 03

  But you can't say that the absence of a glitch is evidence against it, right?

• 31:17Mayim Bialik?

  True, true.

• 31:18Speaker 03

  So how do we subject it to scientific testing?

• 31:20Mayim Bialik?

  Because some people are like, oh, planes fall out of the sky. I'm like, that doesn't seem like a glitch. I mean, it seems horrible and tragic and something that shouldn't happen, but like, I don't know, in this simulation, those things happen.

• 31:31Speaker 03

  Right, right. You asked before, you know, why do, you know, bad things happen to good people? I always say, well, like, what's worse? Why do bad things happen to good people? Or when good things happen to bad people? Which irritates you more?

• 31:42Mayim Bialik?

  Sure.

• 31:43Speaker 03

  But so are either one of those evidence for simulation? Okay, so, but if you wrap it up, I mean, there is no atheist. Even Dawkins, even, you know, Stephen Hawking, the late great Stephen Hawking, even Harris, they can't refute the proposition that God is creating and rendering reality. So too, you can't refute the proposition. Now, you have to ask, what are the physical constraints on it? Just like you would ask them on God too. Now, God gets out of it because he is omnipotent, he is omnipotent, he is omniscient, and so forth and so on, right? Subject to certain limitations, like humans have free will and all the classic arguments that limit his power, which I think are interesting and worth exploring. But again, at the end of the day, it has to be subject to not proof, but falsification. I don't see many ways that you could falsify it.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  That doesn't mean it exists, like Neil said. Neil said, I find it hard to disagree with it. Well, that is a sign, you know, perhaps of the limitation of the one who's probing it, right? I don't give up and say, well, like, I don't think I could prove that the multiverse doesn't exist. I'm going to try to prove that it doesn't exist. Wherever that takes me, even if it takes me into a situation that makes it in tension with the Bible or some religious doctrine.

• 32:50Mayim Bialik?

  There's something in the news that we wanted to just ask you about, and you're kind of the first person that we've had on, you know, since this became part of the news cycle. There's been, and I don't know if it's like, you know, kind of observation bias also. There's been a group of recent like deaths and disappearances of certain scientists that have been linked to nuclear research, to aerospace programs, you know. And, you know, for a lot of people, the answer is not sort of like aliens. It's usually like a secretive government or possibly an adversarial government. Do you have opinions about when those things kind of break through the worlds? And there's something conspicuous going on.

• 33:33Mayim Bialik?

  The government has already admitted that there's not been transparency, which we shouldn't be surprised because like, you know, it's the government. And I would say that for any administration, like the structure of the government is made for secrecy and, you know, lunacy. But what do you make of that? Does that mean anything to you? Does it give you pause?

• 33:52Speaker 03

  Well, I was really troubled recently. A very good scientist that I respect and admire in a lot of ways. She kind of promoted one of these deaths as evidence of a cover up perhaps of UAP phenomena, that this scientist who is working in Chile had worked on phenomena to detect anomalous signatures of flashing lights that were seen first reported in data recently was the data was collected in the 1950s before the space program. And it had sort of the appearance of like solar panels or something way before solar panels were invented, A, and way before the space program even was a thing even on the Russian side. Is that proof that aliens are visiting here? Absolutely not.

• 34:33Speaker 03

  However, I didn't like that, and I'm not going to name her, but, but the, the fact was she was conflating the fact that the scientist who died, that he was working on technology that could have detected the existence of these craft currently, implying perhaps that he was murdered, right? By some force, some government. Didn't want his truth to get out, blah, blah, blah. When in reality, the scientists went for a walk in the Atacama Desert, which is where our Simons Observatory is located. It's an incredibly desolate place. They actually use it as a simulator for Mars because it's the driest desert on Earth in many ways. Extremely high altitude, extremely rocky and desolate. And he went hiking, this guy, older guy with like, you know, half a water bottle, and he was found without any clothes on.

• 35:18Speaker 03

  And they were like, this is proof of it. Like, there's apparently some phenomenon, maybe neuroscientists like you can explain. But when people are in the desert and unforgiving, even though it could be very cold or very hot, they start to do things like they take off their clothes or maybe he was doing something and he fell to his death. And it was obvious that he did. And yes, they're doing some, they're still following up on some anomalies and perhaps his thing. And he had a fight with a student the day before. Look, I'm like, guys, this is nonsense. This is tragedy and you're exploiting it to generate uncertainty and bias and mistrust in the government. Look, I have a healthy distrust for government. My brother-in-law is a recon Marine. Okay, he's like the toughest guy on steroids that you've ever met. And this guy has been to Afghanistan 39 times. And he's just like the bravest person I've ever known.

• 36:02Speaker 03

  True patriot, just a great guy. He's been waterboarded. He's been tortured. He's been left to die by the government intentionally because they're trying to test him and prove his mettle. And he succeeded every single time. And he even defers and says, I am not even as worthy as some of my colleagues. Some of them give the, you know, the ultimate sacrifice, right? So I am under no illusions that our government doesn't test people and trick people and do things. But could that not be an explanation for why we're seeing all these things? And pilots in the Air Force and the Navy see these things. And maybe they're being tested. Maybe they're being, their loyalties are being proved. Maybe there's adversaries that are trying to do it. The first explanation should not be the apologetic answer. It shouldn't be like what the Christian and Jewish apologists do,

• 36:45Speaker 03

  which is to explain an anomaly based on assuming the cause to begin with. That's not scientific.

• 36:51Mayim Bialik?

  I'm going to ask one more question before we say goodbye.

• 36:56Mayim Bialik?

  I have a, an unnatural obsession with cattle mutilations. Because the cattle mutil-

• 37:02Speaker 03

  I actually-

• 37:03Mayim Bialik?

  No, but there-

• 37:04Speaker 03

  Say less, say less.

• 37:05Mayim Bialik?

  No, but there, there are these cattle mutilations where bizarre organs are cut out. There is no evidence of how someone is arriving in these places, cutting out like tongues. I mean Valerie is gonna back me on this one. Cutting out like tongues and ovaries, like bizarre incisions. And to me, it's like, whatever's happening, can someone just explain it so we can stop thinking and wondering? And the fact is, when things are not explained, you get all sorts of wonderings. And when you have an internet and you have ability for people to communicate, it breeds a lot of suspicion.

• 37:43Jonathan Cohen?

  I think similarly to that is the idea of these energy weapons, which 60 Minutes recently did the expose on, where people had these horrific physical problems and, and were attacked in some way. And it was said, "Oh, you're making it up, you're going crazy." And then they discover the technology that we couldn't have understood scientifically. So like, there's this gap between, science wants these explanations and wants proof naturally, and things that we cannot understand based on our current observable data, that are hard to explain or may be very real.

• 38:22Speaker 03

  I, I think they could be impossible to explain for, you know, almost the entire population, except for maybe a cadre of individual scientists. Don't forget, you know, as Arthur C. Clarke, who's the namesake giver of my podcast, he, he said that "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." And in the sense that you come upon some new technology, my favorite example is the following. During World War II, everyone's familiar with the Manhattan Project, but there was an equal and opposite program going on at MIT and in the UK to develop radar. This was like, an incredible weapon that we were able to use, not only for detecting things, but actually for doing espionage, for doing spoofing. So one of the things that Louis Alvarez, who later went on to win the Nobel Prize, um, he-

• 39:05Speaker 03

  And he was also the one who came up with the theory that the that the Chixalob meteor, which struck the Earth 66 million years ago, was the resulted in the death of dinosaurs. So he and his son worked on this together. Anyway, he was one of the greatest geniuses of the last century. He came up with this idea. When the Germans are looking for our planes coming in, they're sending radio waves out. They had some basic radar as well. So if we spoof them, we can send the following. Because signals go down as the inverse square of the distance, we transmit a signal as we're getting closer that gets weaker as the inverse square. So it kept getting weaker and weaker. And they say, oh, the planes are flying away. And then they drop a bomb on them. Now, if you were a German, you know, soldier, and you were looking, you'd say, this thing was moving away from us, and then

• 39:47Speaker 03

  it bombed us. It moved faster than the speed of light, i.e. it defied the laws of physics. Or as my toddler used to say, it defied the laws of fixits. Fixits. That's kind of makes sense. So there are many things. I'm sure we don't understand. A cattle mutilation is the military.

• 40:02Mayim Bialik?

  There's no blood, and they've taken out the tongue and all of the organs with surgical precision. Why is there no blood?

• 40:07Speaker 03

  Well, you're a vegan, so anything, even me having a sandwich up this is going to upset you.

• 40:11Mayim Bialik?

  That's very suspicious.

• 40:12Speaker 03

  I love Kevin Canute. I think I'm pronouncing it right.

• 40:14Mayim Bialik?

  Yeah.

• 40:15Speaker 03

  The one thing that bothered me about that wonderful interview that you guys did is he led off by saying in 1968, when he was at Montana State University, there was a series of cattle mutilations, and that got me kind of interested in anomalous things that nobody could understand. And I thought, well, now I'm starting to learn. And I wouldn't have known it if you guys hadn't asked him about it. And and so, well, I have no special expertise, and I think a good scientist, I don't know. But it did illuminate something about his psychology, which I'm not going to say is good or bad. I'm just saying, it helped me understand him on a psychological level better.

• 40:44Jonathan Cohen?

  We should have you back to review all of our episodes.

• 40:46Mayim Bialik?

  Yes, seriously. This is like, this is amazing.

• 40:48Speaker 03

  Come on, guys. You guys are blowing my mind. Wait, I want to present you with the final thing.

• 40:51Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, go ahead.

• 40:52Speaker 03

  So you know Amy Farrah Fowler. She won the Nobel Prize.

• 40:55Mayim Bialik?

  Correct. And I've lost five Emmys. So you and I are both losers in real life.

• 40:59Speaker 03

  Well, we could do that. We could do that, right. But you can't write losing the Nobel Prize. So on my podcast, which is named after Sir Arthur C. Clarke's, he had many statements, many aphorisms, one of which was the magic, you know, any sufficiently advanced technologies is thing was thing is for magic. Another one was for every expert, there's an equal and opposite expert, which I like to drop on my department chair from time to time. And then he said, "The only way of knowing the limits of the possible is to go beyond them into the impossible."

• 41:26Mayim Bialik?

  Got it.

• 41:27Speaker 03

  And at UC San Diego, I founded, along with my colleagues and friends, the Arthur C. Clarke Center for Human Imagination. And I started the podcast during COVID, like you guys did, because authors couldn't go on book tours. And I'm an author and I love to, you know, support authors and thinkers like Nobel Prize winners. And so we have guests that come from all different domains. But you've been an inspiration, both of you guys, your podcast.

• 41:47Mayim Bialik?

  Thank you.

• 41:47Speaker 03

  So I want to present you with the Keating Medal. Not a Nobel Prize, but it's a Keating Medal for Impossible Imagination. And it's got your name on there.

• 41:54Jonathan Cohen?

  I love that.

• 41:55Mayim Bialik?

  Thank you.

• 41:55Speaker 03

  Jonathan, this is a meteorite, which I said before, is the afterbirth, if you like, of the star that died to make our Earth. And inside of this is highly magnetic iron, nickel, cobalt. And I actually give these away on my website. Anyone with a .edu email address can win one. And so maybe if you put it in the show notes, whatever. But this is highly magnetic, too. And the beautiful thing about this is that the iron in this meteorite is the same as the iron in the hemoglobin molecules in our blood. So these are truly connected. And if you take the metal and you look on the back where the monolith is from 2001: A Space Odyssey, you recognize that. By the way, you know that podcast comes from that movie?

• 42:33Mayim Bialik?

  Didn't know that.

• 42:34Speaker 03

  So there's an engineer at Apple named Vinnie Sharico, and he developed the iPod. And when he developed the iPod, he said, "We should call it the iPod because it looks like the..." Remember the circle on it? It looks like the eye on Hal from 2001: A Space Odyssey.

• 42:49Jonathan Cohen?

  No way.

• 42:49Speaker 03

  And Steve Jobs loved it and they called it the iPod. And today, we're on a podcast.

• 42:53Mayim Bialik?

  Whoa.

• 42:53Speaker 03

  Right? So it's all thanks to Arthur C. Clarke. Okay, so if you look here.

• 42:56Mayim Bialik?

  Oh, no way.

• 42:58Speaker 03

  It's magic. It's magic.

• 43:00Mayim Bialik?

  That's amazing. And it's proof that cattle mutilations are from aliens.

• 43:04Jonathan Cohen?

  Wow, thank you so much. This is really special.

• 43:06Speaker 03

  Thank you guys for being here.

• 43:07Mayim Bialik?

  We didn't even get to get into these incredible books and really the personal stories and transformations, really, that lead to the leaders who have impacted the world in such an incredibly significant way. And even though you have not won a Nobel Prize, we just, we think you're amazing and we're so grateful to have you here. Please tell people where they can find out more about you, obviously, your books, all the things.

• 43:30Speaker 03

  I have a podcast and a Substack, kind of, you know, aping, emulating you, the simulation hypothesis of my MBL. Like, so, yeah, so YouTube channel, podcast, books, briankeating.com.

• 43:40Mayim Bialik?

  Amazing. Thank you so much.

• 43:42Speaker 03

  Thank you, guys.

• 43:47Mayim Bialik?

  I really feel like we were just getting started with Dr. Keating.

• 43:50Jonathan Cohen?

  For more on this conversation, check out the exclusive content on Substack, My Ambiolics Breakdown on Substack.

• 43:56Mayim Bialik?

  And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have, we'll see you next time.

• 43:59Speaker 04

  It's My Ambiolics Breakdown. She's gonna break it down for you. She's got a neuroscience PhD or two. One fiction, one. And now she's gonna break down, it's a breakdown. She's gonna break it down.