Lots More on How TikTok Options Traders Got Quiet

Over the last few years, retail traders have gotten into options in a major way. Selling puts, buying calls, trading volatility — what used to be the domain of niche experts engaged in practical hedging has exploded into the public sphere. And there was a lot of easy money during a time when every dip was bought, and stocks mostly just went up. But what have we seen in recent weeks, with the extraordinary trading since April 2? On this episode we bring back one of our favorite guests, Benn Eifert of QVR Advisors. He describes what's been going on in the markets, and why a lot of social media "volfluencers" have suddenly gotten very quiet. Mentioned on this episode:Matt Levine on MicroStrategy’s Infinite Money Machine Only Bloomberg.com subscribers can get the Odd Lots newsletter in their inbox — now delivered every weekday — plus unlimited access to the site and app. Subscribe at bloomberg.com/subscriptions/oddlotsSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 0:52Tracy Alloway?

  Tracy, we have Ben in a leather jacket. Yeah, well, it's not just a leather jacket. It's a black leather blazer with sort of braided edges. It's got a little bit of a, wait, is this an insult or a compliment? I don't know, a little bit of a, a little bit of a Ren Faire feel.

• 1:08Speaker 06

  Oh, absolutely. That's a, that's a, to a big, to a volatility nerd, that's a compliment.

• 1:12Tracy Alloway?

  Okay, good. All right. I wasn't quite sure.

• 1:14Joe Weisenthal?

  This is like one of the, that would be a very polarizing comment to some people.

• 1:18Speaker 06

  Not to me.

• 1:19Joe Weisenthal?

  I do not have Ren Faire vibes, but I, look, I respect it. These are Ren Faire times. These are Ren Faire times. So I get it. I get it.

• 1:27Speaker 06

  They absolutely are. There are pictures of me on Twitter in, you know, Nightingale armor with the sword. So I think this is fair game.

• 1:35Joe Weisenthal?

  I did a deadlift.

• 1:36Tracy Alloway?

  I am both the most popular trader and most successful trader at Citadel.

• 1:41Joe Weisenthal?

  Fed has gone viral.

• 1:42Tracy Alloway?

  Uh, barges.

• 1:43Joe Weisenthal?

  This is an after school special, except.

• 1:45Tracy Alloway?

  I've decided I'm going to base my entire personality going forward on campaigning for a strategic pork reserve in the U.S.

• 1:51Joe Weisenthal?

  Black gold.

• 1:52Tracy Alloway?

  These are the important questions. Is it robots taking over the world?

• 1:55Speaker 01

  No, I think that like in a couple of years, the A I will do a really good job of making the Odd Lots podcast.

• 2:01Joe Weisenthal?

  One day that person will have the mandate of heaven.

• 2:04Tracy Alloway?

  How do I get more popular and successful?

• 2:07Joe Weisenthal?

  We do have. The perfect guest.

• 2:10Tracy Alloway?

  You're listening to Lots More, where we catch up with friends about what's going on right now.

• 2:15Joe Weisenthal?

  Because even when Odd Lots is over, there's always lots more.

• 2:18Tracy Alloway?

  And we really do have the perfect guest.

• 2:24Joe Weisenthal?

  We are, of course, with Ben Eifert, QVR Advisors. Ben, who's been getting steamrolled the most by this market? And I have some thoughts on this market, but I want to hear yours.

• 2:34Speaker 06

  No, it's a, it's a super fun market. I mean, really, first you had the deep seek thing hit, right? And that was really interesting because equity markets went down, but the fun was all under the surface, right? It was, what did we sell off? Eight or 10% in index? It wasn't a huge deal, but there were like eight standard deviation moves in market neutral factor type relationships and crowded equity long short. And so you saw, you know, the type of people that had the really popular equity positions, Nvidia and Tesla and all these kinds of stocks just get really, really murdered. You heard of a lot of pain at the big multi-strats. Again, you have to put that in context because they're pretty well risk managed. The losses weren't that large in percent terms, but you had, again, just very, very, very large moves.

• 3:14Speaker 06

  And then I think the interesting thing about that was that led to a lot of de-risking in hedge funds. So you had pretty high gross net leverage coming into that. And then it came off quite a lot, you know, a lot of de-risking. And then when, you know, when liberation day hit, I think positioning wasn't nearly as, you know, as off sides as it could have been otherwise. And so you did see, obviously, big drawdowns in the equity market and big rallies back a lot of volatility. But I think, you know, the losses that you saw among hedge funds probably weren't as bad as they would have been otherwise. Another interesting thing to note, and we, you know, we talked about this a lot. There really isn't that much of the kind of super crowded, short volatility,

• 3:57Speaker 06

  short tail risk, tail risk selling kind of stuff out there that there was like in 2019, 2020 for the pandemic. So you didn't see that those kinds of fireworks, right? There weren't like hedge funds getting liquidated and people getting carried out in body bags and big auctions of all their positions, making markets go crazy. You just didn't really have that kind of stuff. What you had was a pretty fundamentally driven, you know, orderly sell off, followed by, you know, goofy rallies back and forth on Trump tweets and what's he going to do? And all this kind of thing. But it was really, I think, much more about, about, you know, fundamentals of expectations of what is policy really actually going to be? And how much does that matter for the economy as opposed? To like technical positioning hedge fund blowups and people getting steamrolled.

• 4:37Tracy Alloway?

  Yeah, I feel like the positioning point is really important and is probably one of the reasons like we had. I'm doing air quotes here, but that orderly sell off versus something super, super chaotic. But that said, I mean, we're talking about it being a fun market. I feel like I have to make the obvious disclaimer, which is I'm sure it's very fun if you're in options and in volatility trading. But if you're in the sort of long term buy and hold game, this feels almost like an impossible environment to navigate. Right? Like one day we're up two or 3%. The next day we're down two or 3%. Everything is riding on like what Scott Besant says, what Lutnick chooses to say. And God knows, you know, what Trump is going to say in his latest press conference.

• 5:18Speaker 06

  Very much so. And, you know, and intraday too. It's like, well, yesterday we were up 3.2%. And then there was a bunch of walking back of the unilateral tariff reduction position. And then we sold off, you know, halfway back to flat almost immediately. I think there were, I think someone.

• 5:32Joe Weisenthal?

  By the way, we're recording this April 24th. It's 10:08 a.m. Every time we have a yesterday or something.

• 5:38Speaker 06

  That's right.

• 5:38Joe Weisenthal?

  Very good point. Keep going, keep going.

• 5:39Speaker 06

  Yep. So we had, I think just this morning I saw an article, I think Alexandra wrote it at Bloomberg saying, you know, we're in a, you know, traders are trying to trade Trump tweets market. And that's really hard, you know? I think that generally speaking, anybody that you talk to, the success rate of sitting there at your computer and looking at what just got tweeted or what article just came out and then sort of doing trades and making money like nobody makes money at that. It's incredibly difficult, right? It's a very choppy market. The people who do, of course, as you pointed out, volatility traders have a very non consensus view on what, what's fun and what's not. Right? We love this, but yeah, I think that's.

• 6:12Tracy Alloway?

  Your definitions of fun may vary.

• 6:15Speaker 06

  Exactly. Back to the Renaissance fair point.

• 6:17Joe Weisenthal?

  So I thought there was a very interesting point about deep seek, which is that what it really obliterated were the market neutral factors that had been working on. That is very interesting. And of course, you know, the pod shops that we're always talking about, their game is to find those melt market neutrals. And then this was a thing that just rearranged everything. You know, when you're on before you talk about the Tik Tok option influencers who are always looking at various. Letters like alpha, beta, gamma, delta, epsilon, zeta, eta, theta, iota, kappa, lambda, mu. When upsilon is trading way out there on some extreme. All these trades are premised on some sort of mean reversion. That there is a dislocation and then eventually a normal returns, right?

• 7:02Joe Weisenthal?

  And it may go further out and the sigma and the rho may get further blown out, but eventually they come back to normal. How much of this is like a crisis of people really don't know that some sort of fundamental economic mean reversion is coming?

• 7:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think there's something really important to that, right? I think that people are very conditioned in this market of the last many, many years, really post credit crisis, right? That that sort of nothing ever happens. We talk about this a lot, right? But that any kind of sell off will be immediately bought. It'll immediately come back. Any kind of all spike will get sold. And, you know, even in the pandemic, obviously, people got run over on that view, but we still did come back. It's just that it got really crazy for like a month, right?

• 7:41Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah.

• 7:41Speaker 06

  And I think this feels very different where this isn't a flash in the pan with a technical squeeze and a big explosion of stuff like this. You know, there are the real fundamental issues here, which is that, you know, the US government is out there doing totally crazy economic policy that every economist in the world, for the most part, will tell you is totally crazy. And they're also changing the goalposts day to day on what exactly that policy is going to be. And they've really eroded the market's confidence that they kind of know what they're doing, not only on tariffs, but I think on everything else now, right? I think that one of the most important things that Liberation Day did was, you know, take the market, which really up to that point, I think you have to say kind of believed that the tariffs thing was like this four dimensional chess strategy and negotiation and everything else. Crazy that Trump was saying you kind of discount, right?

• 8:26Speaker 06

  Because he's not really going to do that. He's got a plan and really the market really had to re-rate that whole expectations of how to interpret everything that Trump and his administration say or say they're going to do. Because gosh, they said they were going to do this crazy terrorist thing. And then they did it five times crazier than everybody thought they were going to do.

• 8:41Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah.

• 8:42Speaker 06

  Right? And not just crazier in terms of levels of tariffs, but in terms of like the clownishness of implementation, right? But like the chat GPT night before tariff table with the Penguin Islands and like the whole thing, right? So. So then when Trump is out there saying, okay, tomorrow, you know, next week, we're going to deport 30 million immigrants or like whatever crazy thing that he says, the market kind of has to take that more seriously now, right? Or at least question like, what are the possible implications? And so I think it's a very different environment going forward, right? It's unlikely that that's going to just change and that he's going to suddenly turn into like a really serious guy.

• 9:14Tracy Alloway?

  So speaking of things being weird, and there are any number of weird things that we could choose to talk about here. But like, one of the weirdest to me has been what's been going on in equity volatility. So we've had a very big gap between the VIX, which is implied volatility versus realized volatility, which, you know, like, maybe explain the difference to us just to begin with. And like, why we've seen that gap really develop?

• 9:38Speaker 06

  Sure, absolutely. So the VIX is something that everybody talks about, but not everybody really thinks about exactly what it is, right? It's the fear index, but what it is, is it's a level of what's called implied volatility. So in some sense, you could think of it as the market's forecast for realized volatility over the next month, based on option prices. It's a little bit more nuanced, though, because the calculation that they chose for VIX isn't regular volatility. It's something called variance, which is volatility squared, but then normalized back into units that are volatility. And the distinction there is that if you, it's, so the level of VIX is the level of what's called a variance swap. And a variance swap pays you as a volatility trader who buys it proportional to the square of volatility. And so what that means is if volatility doubles, you actually make a whole lot more money.

• 10:23Speaker 06

  Or if volatility goes up by four times, you make a ridiculously amount more money.

• 10:26Tracy Alloway?

  Yeah, there's like a slope, right?

• 10:28Speaker 06

  There's a big slope to it. And so you have to pay a big premium to buy a variance swap relative to what you would pay to just buy volatility. And so when you compare the VIX to realized volatility, or how much markets are moving on average, on average, there should be an extra premium there. It's not just directly comparable. Now, to Tracy's point, though, realized volatility recently has actually been generally much higher than like the average level of the VIX. Now, the VIX did spike into the 50s kind of briefly, but it's mostly come back down into like the 30s and the high 20s. But yet markets are often moving, you know, 3% in a day. Four or five percent in a day, which implies a much higher level of implied volatility.

• 11:06Tracy Alloway?

  It's a crazy chart. So you can you can chart on the Bloomberg, on your handy Bloomberg Terminal, like the gamma index versus the VIX. You could see that like the jaws kind of opening over the past few weeks.

• 11:17Speaker 06

  Yeah, very much so. And again, that's really reflects a, you know, aggressive bet on the part of market participants that realized volatility has been high, but it's going to be lower over the next month than it was. And it's and actually, the degree to which you see that in your chart is understated because of that variance swap effect. You're actually not really even comparing the right number. The right number to compare would be like at the money implied ball, which you can also plot in Bloomberg.

• 11:41Tracy Alloway?

  Oh, what's the ticker for that?

• 11:42Speaker 06

  So you just do SPX index and then you would do, there's going to be a field for it, which would be like one month, one MTH, 100% something, something like a long field, but yeah.

• 11:52Tracy Alloway?

  Oh, awesome. Yes, this is very useful. Thank you, Ben.

• 11:54Speaker 06

  There you go. And that guy will usually be anywhere between, say, three and eight or 10 points below VIX, depending on the level of VIX. So with VIX at 50, that's probably at 40 or 38 or something like that.

• 12:05Joe Weisenthal?

  You know, Tracy and I, we put on events, trivia events, et cetera. One of the dreams that we have, though, is a Bloomberg Terminal live competition.

• 12:14Speaker 06

  Competition for sure.

• 12:14Tracy Alloway?

  The Terminal Olympics.

• 12:15Joe Weisenthal?

  Terminal Olympics, where we get like 20 traders and they're all seated at a terminal.

• 12:20Speaker 06

  Oh, that would be so good.

• 12:20Joe Weisenthal?

  Calculate X, Y, and then they always, and it flashes on a screen, who like gets the answer first? Like, how well do you know? So.

• 12:28Speaker 06

  That would be such good TV.

• 12:29Joe Weisenthal?

  We thank Ben for coming on, if nothing else, to give us quotes and news about functions for when we eventually put this on.

• 12:49Speaker 00

  What's next for virtual assets? I'm Jacob Rees, host of Economy Scale, a series exploring growth in key global sectors. And this episode, we're diving into the digital forces shaping finance. Sean McHugh from Dubai-based Virtual Assets Regulatory Authority has this to say.

• 13:05Speaker 06

  We're seeing a lot of institutional players come in, digital asset dedicated hedge funds, high frequency traders and that sort of thing, and folks who service institutional clients.

• 13:14Speaker 00

  As more capital enters the market, adaptive regulation is likely to become increasingly key. Reese Merrick of Ripple says. A lot of regulators globally would like to keep the industry at arm's length. That's the opposite here. I think also what you'll find is that regulation and frameworks can come. Out, but some of them are maybe a slight iteration on some 80 year old policy and not actually in line with what the technology can do and offer. And again, that's very different in Dubai. Listen to the full episode wherever you get your podcasts. This series is brought to you by Bloomberg Media Studios and the Dubai Department of Economy and Tourism.

• 13:51Speaker 04

  This is the Bloomberg Tech Minute brought to you by Chat GPT. I'm Carol Muster. Millions of Americans are taking peptides, short strings of amino acids that can act as biological signals for cells. Peptides like insulin can occur naturally in the body, or they can be synthetically introduced to induce a biological process, as happens with semaglutide, the active ingredient in Ozempic. Now Bloomberg's Anika Inamputi reports peptides may be exploring their next frontier, the brain. People are taking peptides for mental clarity and cognitive benefits as alternatives to psychiatric medications and to gain a competitive edge or stave off the effects of aging. Both insulin and semaglutide are approved by the US Food and Drug Administration.

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• 15:14Joe Weisenthal?

  I don't follow like, you know, the Wolf of Gamma or whatever on TikTok. You seen anything good? What are they saying?

• 15:21Speaker 06

  They all got real quiet, Joe.

• 15:25Joe Weisenthal?

  Tell them, what are you seeing out there? You got any good like tweets or you know, those put sellers or whatever?

• 15:31Speaker 06

  Seriously. So as you know, like on a regular basis in normal environments, like everybody is tagging me in ridiculous like tweets or Instagram posts or whatever that these kind of sub option selling influencers. ...are making, you know, the coal options grind guy and like all these people. And as of, you know, a couple of weeks ago, there's just absolute crickets from that

• 15:50Joe Weisenthal?

  Really?

• 15:50Speaker 06

  community because the types of trades that, you know, they they advocate, as we talked about last time, you know, they make a little bit of money on average, you know, for a while, and then they give it all back or twice as much back when something like this happens. And so there's not a whole lot of talking coming from that crowd. And you see it reflected, you know, obviously, you can't see what is happening to those highly over leveraged individuals that are unfortunately following that kind of advice. You know, you can look at how well like covered call ETFs are performing relative to just the underlying and things like that to get a little bit of a little bit of a sense. You know, look at the MSTR covered call ETF, for example, right? And it's just bad because the worst possible environment for those kind of strategies

• 16:31Speaker 06

  is when you have a sharp spike in realized volatility. And especially if there's like a lot of chop and back and forth, you know, mean reversion, right? Because you'll have a situation where where they're selling like these weekly options, right? And you have a really big sell off for a week, they lose a bunch of money on their puts, and then they sell some calls, and you have the big rally back, and then they lose their money on their calls. And again, none of this is like something that they explain to their followers. They just sort of tell their followers that the income of the strategy is like the option premium that they sold, and they don't conceptualize the possibility that you can actually lose money when you sell the option.

• 17:05Joe Weisenthal?

  Tracy, every once in a while, I'm reminded that we exist in a world where there's like 14 ETFs that are based on various doing things with MicroStrategy. It's so crazy.

• 17:16Speaker 06

  Amazing.

• 17:16Joe Weisenthal?

  Anyway, sorry.

• 17:17Tracy Alloway?

  Well, also, I'm still blown away by the fact that MicroStrategy also calls out the volatility in its share price in its earnings call as like a selling point. Look how volatile we were in this quarter, guys.

• 17:28Speaker 06

  And it's beautiful, right? Because I mean, Sailor's very smart, right? So Sailor understands all this stuff perfectly. If you if you can run a really, really high volatility company, it means hedge funds love your convertible bonds and will pay anything to get your convertible bonds.

• 17:39Tracy Alloway?

  Yeah.

• 17:39Speaker 06

  It actually makes your credit cheaper.

• 17:42Tracy Alloway?

  And I gotta say, if people want to hear more about this, we did record a lots more with Matt Levine.

• 17:46Speaker 06

  That was a great episode.

• 17:47Tracy Alloway?

  God, it feels like so long. It feels like it was two years ago.

• 17:49Joe Weisenthal?

  We had the luxury of talking about MicroStrategy. For a whole episode once.

• 17:53Speaker 06

  Pretty amazing.

• 17:54Tracy Alloway?

  I feel like this is kind of the secret of volatility and options trading, which is like, you think that a lot of these guys, a lot of these influencers would really enjoy this particular trading environment, but so much of it is based on that mean reversion that Joe was pointing out, that a lot of stuff just blows up when you finally get volatility, right?

• 18:13Speaker 06

  No, it really does. Wait, not to come back to this, but MSTR, but did you see that there is going to be MSTR for Solana?

• 18:19Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah, yeah. And they're, yes, they're trying to, I was, I actually peered on a crypto podcast recently. And I was like, I'm tapping out this. I don't understand. But now there's a bunch of like, copycats. And the question is, can anyone really repeat this?

• 18:33Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah. GSR just led a big round into Apex.

• 18:36Joe Weisenthal?

  I just have to read these. Sorry. I have one more question, but I just, before I do, here are some of the ETFs. Defiance Daily Target 2X Long MSTR ETF, Yield Max MSTR Option Income Strategy ETF, T-Rex 2X Long MSTR Daily Target ETF, Bitwise MSTR Income Strategy. Oh, there's another one. S-T-E-K-Day 100% MSTR and 100% Coinbase. So I guess it makes us some Coinbase in there. There's a lot more. I just had to read those things. Last question for me. Like, if you're a long only investor, just a normal, whatever, investor like I am, you know, you have two choices, I think, which is one, the hope and pray strategy, which I always actually think is very legitimate, because that does tend to work out over a long enough timeline.

• 19:19Joe Weisenthal?

  Or the like, oh, I really need to think about diversification strategy, something like that. Okay. In your world, don't you still have to have some sort of view? Because if the question is, do some of these Greek letters snap back into place? Or there's a gap between where this Greek letter and this Greek letter are pricing? To make money, don't you still need to have a view like I do?

• 19:42Speaker 06

  That's a great question. So there's a couple of different important things here. There are different types of trades in the derivatives world that are driven by dislocations. Some of those trades make money on realized dynamics in markets and don't rely on some implied Greek coming back into line. Right? So Tracy was talking about, you know, Realized volatility and implied volatility. This is like a simple dumb example, but just suppose that implied volatility was just always way too low and realized volatility was way higher for short term options. You would just buy short term options and hedge them all the time and you would just make money constantly. Yeah. And you wouldn't need that to ever change. You wouldn't ever want that to change. You wouldn't ever want that dislocation to go away. Okay, so there are some things like that, that we can make money based on a dislocation, but without requiring the dislocation to close.

• 20:27Speaker 06

  And then there are other things where exactly as you point out, you're trading an implied dislocation and you're going to only make money when it reverts. And for things like that, you know, we really have to think hard about, okay, where is this dislocation coming from? What flows are driving it? Are those flows that are going to be persistent and not go away? And it's unlikely that those dislocations close? Are there fundamentals that actually cause that dislocation to stay there, even if it doesn't really make sense? Or is this something that is being driven by temporary supply and demand dynamics in the market? And you understand what might push it back over what kind of time horizon? And the latter is an interesting trade, the former really isn't. And you actually have to think very hard about that. You can't just look at the level of the Wizou parameter on a screen and sort of say, which by the way is the made up parameter that exotic derivatives traders, you know,

• 21:11Speaker 06

  use to claim why you're losing money on your trade with them.

• 21:15Tracy Alloway?

  Oh man, I'm always looking at those parameters. That's my big mistake. Okay, wait, I have a very simplistic question based on this conversation. But okay, implied volatility down quite a bit, realized volatility is still up quite a bit. Is buying vol, that sort of hedging protection, is that cheap at the moment? Like, would you be a buyer at these levels, basically?

• 21:34Speaker 06

  Yeah, if you believe, as I think I do, that Trump 2.0 is not a low volatility president, right? That one way or another, right, this is different. And that doesn't mean the world is going to end necessarily, but that this is not like a 10% realized volatility market. And he doesn't want it that way, he doesn't like it that way. Then yeah, I think you have to look at, when you look at the overall volatility landscape, there are a lot of things that are relatively cheap. And, you know, in our core business, we're absolute return. We're always looking for what's cheap and what's expensive and, you know, hedge trades and so forth. But we also do help big institutional investors with tail risk hedging and with things that are outright defensive to. Protect their portfolios. And yeah, there's still lots and lots of opportunities for that.

• 22:16Speaker 06

  Because really, in this market, we talked about this a little bit, but the knee jerk reaction of most market participants is that when volatility goes up, they just think you have to sell it. And they do a lot of risk on trades in the volatility markets, which don't necessarily make sense, you know, from a risk reward perspective. Most of the time, they should just buy equities, to be honest, if they want to be bullish.

• 22:36Tracy Alloway?

  Actually, you just reminded me. I mean, one of the other things we just saw was like this huge contraction in risk appetite across the entire financial industry, basically around April 2nd, that liberation day. Who is selling vol at the moment? And have you seen continued appetite to sell volatility in the current environment?

• 22:56Speaker 06

  Yeah, no, very much so. So one thing that you can always tell is when you get a sell off like this and the VIX spikes a lot, so VIX went to a little over 50. Look at where the front month VIX futures trading, and that tells you whether people are buying or selling vol. So the front month VIX future had, you know, five or six days left to maturity early after liberation day. And it was trading at, you know, 32 when the VIX was 50, right? So it was implying massive speed of normalization and mean reversion because everybody's selling it. And the VIX future is the best thing to look at because it's the tourist instrument, right? So, you know, vol traders, you know, trade the VIX in as much as there's dislocations in it. But if you're just a regular equity guy and you think vol is too high, you don't go trade options. Options are too much work. VIX is really easy, right?

• 23:39Speaker 06

  Because you can trade the ETFs, you can trade the futures, you don't have to think about like the gamma and the, you know, the Vega and all that stuff.

• 23:46Joe Weisenthal?

  Yeah.

• 23:46Speaker 06

  And so there's an overwhelming appetite to sell vol on vol spikes from a lot of parts of the hedge fund community, from tourists, from volatility tourists within the hedge fund community, and from retail investors also. Retail investors are very much dip buyers and vol sellers on spikes.

• 24:02Joe Weisenthal?

  Volty tourists would be a good name for a trivia team at one of our trivia nights. I'm a volatility tourist.

• 24:08Speaker 06

  That is a good, a good name.

• 24:09Joe Weisenthal?

  That would be a fun one.

• 24:14Joe Weisenthal?

  Lots More is produced by Carmen Rodriguez and Dashil Bennett with help from Moses Andam and Kale Brooks.

• 24:20Tracy Alloway?

  Our sound engineer is Blake Maples. Sage Baumann is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts.

• 24:25Joe Weisenthal?

  Please rate, review, and subscribe to Odd Lots and Lots More on your favorite podcast platforms.

• 24:31Tracy Alloway?

  And remember that Bloomberg subscribers can listen to all our podcasts ad-free by connecting through Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.

• 24:42Speaker 03

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• 25:17Tracy Alloway?

  Quick question for you. How much of your day is spent typing? Email, Slack, notes, prompts to ChatGPT? Whisperflow is a voice-to-text app. Instead of typing, you talk and it types for you in any app on your Mac, Windows, iPhone, or Android. It takes out the ums, fixes the typos, and the result sounds like you wrote it. Four times faster than typing. So the email that used to take two minutes now takes 30 seconds. Whisperflow is free. Download it at whisperflow.ai. That's W-I-S-P-R-flow.ai.