252. Rethinks: How to Make Complex Ideas Accessible

Presenting complex information for your audience to understand. As communicators, we often need to take complex information (e.g., financial, technical, or scientific) and make it more understandable for our audience – we’re experts and they likely aren’t. But having so much knowledge on the topics we discuss can often make the job more difficult: we dive in too quickly, forget about our audience's needs, or use jargon that goes over their heads. In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart https://www.fastersmarter.io/, strategic communications lecturers Matt Abrahams and Lauren Weinstein https://www.fastersmarter.io/guests/lauren-weinstein/ explore the “curse of knowledge” and offer specific techniques you can use to be more successful in getting your point across. Episode Reference Links: Lauren Weinstein https://www.fastersmarter.io/guests/lauren-weinstein/Ep.3 When Knowing Too Much Can Hurt Your Communication: How to Make Complex Ideas Accessible https://www.fastersmarter.io/3-when-knowing-too-much-can-hurt-your-communication-how-to-make-complex-ideas-accessible/Ep.49 Make Numbers Count: How to Communicate Data Effectively https://www.fastersmarter.io/49-make-numbers-count-how-to-communicate-data-effectively/Ep.91 Um, Like, So: How Filler Words Can Create More Connected, Effective Communication https://www.fastersmarter.io/91-um-like-so-how-filler-words-can-create-more-connected-effective-communication/ Connect: Premium Signup >>>> Think Fast Talk Smart Premium https://www.fastersmarter.io/premium/Email Questions & Feedback >>> [email protected] Transcripts >>>Think Fast Talk Smart Website https://www.fastersmarter.io/252-rethinks-how-to-make-complex-ideas-accessible/Newsletter Signup + English Language Learning >>>FasterSmarter.io http://fastersmarter.io/Think Fast Talk Smart >>>LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/company/think-fast-talk-smart/,Instagram https://www.instagram.com/thinkfasttalksmart/, YouTube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6caGRBUYZCmgDGM2RK6mxKB9jG_ccmm3Matt Abrahams >>>LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/maabrahams/ Chapters: (00:00) - Introduction (01:11) - Where Complexity Breaks Down (02:24) - Start With the Audience (03:26) - The Power of Analogy (06:27) - The “Chunking” Technique (08:22) - Make Data Relatable (10:32) - The Final Three Question (12:38) - Conclusion ******** Thank you to our sponsors. These partnerships support the ongoing production of the podcast, allowing us to bring it to you at no cost. Learn more about how Notion https://www.notion.com/?utm_source=podcasts&utm_medium=thinkfast can support your business at notion.com/thinkfast. https://www.notion.com/?utm_source=podcasts&utm_medium=thinkfast Join our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community and become the communicator you want to be. https://learning.fastersmarter.io/?redirect_from=podpage

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Matt Abrahams?

  In the moment, conflict is difficult for everyone. In our October newsletter, out now, you will learn ways to help yourself handle these challenges better. Not only do you get specific advice, we're also providing an infographic to help you remember. Find our newsletter on the Think Fast, Talk Smart LinkedIn page or at fastersmarter.io under Resources.

• 0:22Matt Abrahams?

  Hi, Matt here. Our world is getting more and more complex. When communicating about complexity, we need to work to make ideas accessible rather than simply dumb things down or oversimplify. We're diving into our archive to bring you a Rethinks episode where I speak with Lauren Weinstein about specific techniques we can use to help our audience better understand our complex topics. Enjoy one of our very first, but still very relevant, episodes.

• 0:54Matt Abrahams?

  We've all been in situations where someone explains something to us that went over our heads or didn't land because it wasn't relevant or meaningful.

• 1:03Matt Abrahams?

  I'm Matt Abrahams. I teach strategic communication at Stanford's Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. In this episode, we'll chat with Lauren Weinstein as we explore specific techniques you can use to help your audience understand the complex information that you need them to. In other words, we hope to find the antidote to the curse of knowledge. Hey, Lauren, how are you doing?

• 1:31Speaker 01

  Great, glad to be with you here today.

• 1:33Matt Abrahams?

  Like me, Lauren is a lecturer at Stanford's Graduate School of Business. Together for over five years, we've co-taught a class on strategic communication. In addition to this work, she also has a very popular TEDx talk called "Don't Believe Everything You Think." So Lauren, as teachers and coaches, we often have to explain complex ideas so others can understand them. But lots of other folks also have to take complex, technical, or scientific information and make it accessible. Can you talk about some of the examples you use in class that you've seen where people need to do this?

• 2:04Speaker 01

  Yes, I see this all the time. I see it with doctors, scientists, researchers, when they need to communicate their content to lay audiences, whether it's at a conference or they're seeking funding. I see it a lot in business when engineers have to communicate with product managers, when marketing teams need to communicate with customers, and then also when executives and founders need to communicate their strategy, for example, to their org and get everyone on board in an alignment. And then also, of course, with a startup, they are constantly needing to pitch investors and sell to customers and make whatever their product or service is more accessible for them.

• 2:42Matt Abrahams?

  It sounds like almost everybody has situations.

• 2:45Speaker 01

  Yes, across the board.

• 2:46Matt Abrahams?

  Yeah. In our class, we spend a lot of time talking about being in service of the audience rather than just focusing on the content. Do you want to share a few of your thoughts about being audience-centric and what that means?

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Yes. Whenever I work with a new client, no matter who they are or what their topic is, the first question I always ask is, who is your audience? And what do they care about most? And I'll give you an example of why this matters. In 2001, Apple and Steve Jobs came out with the original iPod. The engineers were really excited because it was going to be 5 gigabytes of data. So exciting for them, but if they came out with this message to audiences and customers, less exciting. They didn't know what that means. Is that a lot? So instead, they said, "1,000 songs in your pocket."

• 3:30Matt Abrahams?

  I remember that.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Yes. So they spoke in a way that was aligned with their audience's level of knowledge and what they cared about. They cared about how many songs they could fit. And so it's really important to speak in a way that's aligned with your audience's level of knowledge, but also in terms of what they care about most and translating it to that extent.

• 3:48Matt Abrahams?

  Absolutely. And I think that example really highlights how people can fixate on the specific information rather than thinking about what's relevant and important to their audience. It's really about what the audience needs. Beyond that audience-centric approach, I've also found that people tend to provide more information than is needed to help their audience really understand what they're saying. You know, it reminds me, I know I've shared this with you before. My mother has this wonderful saying. It's "Tell me the time, don't build me the clock." We really need to help people get to the bottom line earlier. We have to communicate concisely, especially when we're dealing with complex information. You know, I think with this idea of being audience-centric and concise, we can really get into some of the specific tools that folks can use

• 4:33Matt Abrahams?

  to help make their complex information more accessible. Can you share with me an example of someone you've worked with who did a really good job explaining something complex to get us started looking at these particular tools people use?

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Yes, happy to. I worked with a TED speaker a while back. His talk was about a treatment that he developed for age-related diseases such as Alzheimer's and dementia. When he first came to me, his first draft talked a lot about mitochondria and prokaryotic cells and cell membranes, which is really exciting for him and other scientists. But speaking to a lay audience, a TED audience, it was a bit too technical for them and less engaging. So first, we had him start with a story. He told the story of his father who had Alzheimer's disease and what it was like to see that decline. He established a personal connection and he started sharing his content in a way that the audience could really connect to and relate with. Then he asked the audience questions.

• 5:29Speaker 01

  So how many of you, you know someone that's suffered from Alzheimer's or dementia? So again, creating more connection with the audience to the topic. And then finally, we came up with an analogy to explain something that was pretty complex. In our bodies, we have billions of cells, and each of these cells are like tiny little individual cities. And within these cities, we have factories, which are the mitochondria. And the job of these factories is to take the oxygen we breathe and the food we eat and convert it to energy. The problem is that often our factories face oxidative damage from toxins and environmental stressors, and this sets the factory walls on fire. And so essentially, the fires become much bigger than the firefighters in our body can handle.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  And so the fires become out of control, the factory goes down, and then the entire city goes down. And this is why we see the symptoms of Alzheimer's, for example. What he developed is a supplement that, basically, a fireproof brick. So it comes in and repairs the factory walls with this fireproof brick and makes it more resistant to damage, so the factory can be saved, as well as even in some cases, rebuild itself. So really incredible. And my favorite part was, right after his talk, his daughter-in-law came up to me, and she said, "For four years, I had no idea what he did." I'm like, "This is amazing." "Thank you so much."

• 6:48Matt Abrahams?

  Wow. I love the notion of connecting before going into the complexity, helping the audience relate to and understand, and there's an emotional connection that happens. So the taking a poll, the telling a personal story, what a great way to prepare the audience for the complex information. The leveraging of that extended analogy really helps the audience to take the perspective of the overall information and see how those fireproof bricks can really help. Are there other techniques that you've noticed beyond personal story, beyond connecting first and analogies, that have worked for clients or students that you've had?

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Yes, I'll share two with you. One is I call it chunking. And so a lot of times, we'll have 10 different things that we want to communicate. And so recently, I was working with a speaker. He was a coach for a lot of different sports teams, and he's known for helping turn them around. And so he'd go to losing teams, and over a year or two, he'd make them winning teams. And so he started taking what he did on the field into the business arena. And now he'll speak to companies and share what they can also do to have higher-performing teams. And when we first started working together, it was, "Here are the 10 things you should do," which is a lot, it's a bit overwhelming. And so generally, in speaking and communication, we have the rule of three. Audiences are pretty good at digesting three discrete buckets of things.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  And so what we came up with is a framework that was, step number one, you want to get your team into alignment. You want to get them all on the same page, heading toward the same North Star, and get buy-in from them. Then step two, Want to have certain processes in place. And so he talked about celebrating small wins and he had a number of other processes that are crucial. And then step three had to do with resilience. So what do you do in the face of setbacks? How do you recover from those? And so by having alignment process and resilience, he was able to make it a lot more easily digestible for his audience.

• 8:44Matt Abrahams?

  I think that idea of chunking is really, really powerful. In fact, I just worked with somebody in a very similar vein where there surprisingly were 10 ideas and we were able to cluster them together in terms of psychological, technological, and ethical. And really thinking about how you can chunk similar ideas together can be helpful. I often use an analogy to explain that. When you bake, for example, you often take the dry ingredients and the wet ingredients, you do your work with them, and then you combine them together. That's that notion of chunking. You said there was another strategy that you've seen used well.

• 9:17Speaker 01

  Yes. Great book called Made to Stick, written by a colleague of ours, Chip Heath, as you know. And the example he uses, which I love, has to do with making data more relatable. The Center for Interest in the Public Health, at one point, they realized that movie popcorn had 30 grams of saturated fat. And they were outraged, and this is incredible, we're going to tell the public and they're not going to believe it, they're going to stop eating movie popcorn. So they came out with this message, and as you might guess, nobody cared, because it didn't mean very much. So 30 grams, is that a lot? I guess it's bad, how bad? They needed to make it more relatable. And so they went back, they hired some folks, and now they came out with, movie popcorn has more saturated fat than a bacon and eggs breakfast, a hamburger and fries for lunch,

• 10:00Speaker 01

  and a steak dinner with all the trimmings combined.

• 10:03Matt Abrahams?

  Wow.

• 10:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:04Matt Abrahams?

  Wow.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  So now people are outraged. Now, New York Times, CNN, ABC, everybody's talking about this. Movie popcorn sales plummet, and the industry is forced to change their ingredients.

• 10:17Matt Abrahams?

  Absolutely. Very, very powerful example. So in reflection, I think we're taking away some very specific skills that people can use to make complex technical and scientific information more accessible. We're talking about things like chunking information together, using analogies, making data relatable and contextualizing it, and begin by really understanding your audience and what's the most important things that you need to communicate. And finally, connect first, relate to the audience, use emotion to get things started, and that will help you as you go through your complex information. We'll be right back to finish our conversation. But first, we're going to take a quick break for a word from our sponsors.

• 11:00Matt Abrahams?

  Their support covers the cost of production, so we can bring you this show for free. This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. The best communicators don't just get their message across, they make it easy for people to know what to do next. Your website can do the same thing. With Squarespace, you can build a polished online presence that clearly shows people who you are, what you offer, and how they can work with you. If you offer coaching, consulting, classes, or other services, Squarespace lets you showcase those offerings, take payments, and use Acuity Scheduling so people can book time with you directly. And with built-in analytics, you can see how people are finding and engaging with your site, helping you make smarter decisions about where to focus. So your online presence doesn't just look professional,

• 11:45Matt Abrahams?

  it helps people take action. Go to Squarespace.com/thinkfast for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code THINKFAST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Hi, Matt here. Sometimes the biggest obstacle to getting something done isn't the idea, the plan, or even the budget. It's finding the right person to help you execute. And the longer that takes, the easier it is to lose momentum. That's where today's sponsor Upwork can help. Upwork gives businesses fast access to highly skilled freelance professionals across areas like marketing, design, software development, AI, and business operations. And with Business Plus, you can access the top 1% of talent on Upwork.

• 12:31Matt Abrahams?

  AI-powered shortlisting gives you a curated list of freelancers matched to your goals in under six hours. So you can spend less time searching for the right person and more time actually moving the work forward. Visit upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's upwork.com to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U.P.W.O.R.K. dot com. Upwork.com.

• 12:58Matt Abrahams?

  And before we go, I always like to ask three questions of everybody who helps with this podcast. Do you mind if I give you our top three questions?

• 13:06Speaker 01

  Go for it.

• 13:06Matt Abrahams?

  All right. So number one, if you were to capture the best communication advice you've ever received as a five to seven-word presentation slide title, what would that advice be?

• 13:19Speaker 01

  It would be connect, then lead. For everyone listening, there's actually a great article in Harvard Business Review with the same title. But this idea, you have to connect with the audience first. You have to tap into what they care about, make your message relatable, and then you can take them where you want them to go. But that connection first is crucial.

• 13:37Matt Abrahams?

  Absolutely, and we certainly talked about that earlier. Let me ask you question number two. Who's a communicator that you really admire and why?

• 13:45Speaker 01

  I love Brene Brown. Again, for anyone listening, she has an amazing special on Netflix right now called Call to Courage. But she does so many of the things that we teach in our class that I share with my clients in terms of storytelling, making content accessible and relatable. Her style is just so natural, authentic, very conversational, beautiful delivery, just very engaging to watch. So I think she's a great role model for anyone who's trying to up their communication game.

• 14:13Matt Abrahams?

  Absolutely. She's very, very impressive. And number three, what are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?

• 14:22Speaker 01

  I would say it's asking yourself the following three questions, which is, who is my audience? What is my message? And then, how can I bring that message to life through stories and analogies?

• 14:33Matt Abrahams?

  Wonderful. I absolutely agree that that recipe leads to great success. Well, Lauren, it's been a pleasure to chat with you in this modality. I know we work together a lot in a bunch of different ways. Thank you for sharing your insight on how to make complex information more accessible. And I hope that everybody is taking away some very specific tools that can help you in any situation when you have some really complex information that you need to get across to your audiences.

• 15:03Matt Abrahams?

  Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. To learn more about how to make complex ideas more understandable, please tune into episode 49 with Chip Heath, or episode 91 with Valerie Friedland. This episode was produced by Catherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with special thanks to Podium Podcast Company. Please find us on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also, follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram, and check out fastersmarter.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter.

• 15:49Matt Abrahams?

  Before we wrap up, I just want to say thank you for listening. It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives. It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show. If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow, subscribe, and explore past conversations. We're grateful for your support of Think Fast, Talk Smart.