Part Four: How Heinrich Himmler Went From Nerdy Boy To Master of the SS

Robert and Prop continue the improbable journey of Heinrich Himmler from nerdy new age mystic kid to leader of the deadliest organization in history See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Robert Evans?

  Hey everyone, Robert Evans here, and on Thursday, September 25th at 8:00 PM, Behind the Bastards is doing a live show. The show itself is in Portland, Oregon, but all of the in-person seats have sold out. However, there are live stream tickets available. If you go to Alberta Rose Theater, T-H-E-A-T-R-E, Behind the Bastards, just type that into Google or whatever search engine you use, Alberta Rose Theater, Behind the Bastards, you can find a link to buy tickets for the live show. This is to benefit the Portland Defense Fund, which helps bail people out who don't have, you know, resources of their own. So it's a good cause. Tickets are $25 for the live stream version of the show. So please go to Alberta Rose Theater, Behind the Bastards,

• 0:46Robert Evans?

  and pick up a live stream show to check it out on Thursday, September 25th at 8:00 PM.

• 0:53Robert Evans?

  Hey, Sophie, did I already do the Himmler, I hardly know her bit?

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. Every day, every day of my life.

• 0:59Robert Evans?

  Uh huh, okay. Well, you can't do it for a lot of the other Nazi leaders, you know? So I feel like I gotta get my money's worth, but I guess I already got my money's worth, and also I didn't pay any money. Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, a podcast where I, Robert Evans, have recorded, I don't know, like a thousand episodes, and I still don't know how to do my job. What other industry but podcasting? Could this be allowed and also still make me qualify as a success? Just podcasting. That's the only industry where that works that way.

• 1:32Speaker 02

  Podcasting.

• 1:33Robert Evans?

  Just podcasting. Prop, Jason Petty, guest, back.

• 1:37Speaker 02

  What's up?

• 1:38Robert Evans?

  Himmler, Himmler, talk.

• 1:41Speaker 02

  Heinrich.

• 1:42Robert Evans?

  We've been talking a lot.

• 1:43Speaker 02

  Heinrich Herman.

• 1:45Robert Evans?

  No. These fucking episodes. Unfortunately, Himmler is like, I don't know, he might be my favorite Nazi in terms of like, reading about. That's a bad way to phrase it, but I'm fascinated by him.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know if there's- I don't know if English has another word for what we're trying to say right now.

• 2:02Robert Evans?

  This is like my special interest is, is the different weirdos who lead the Nazi party. And I do a lot of Himmler reading and I honestly, I don't know how to like do this episode succinctly in any way, shape or form. Like we're on, I'm, I'm 36 pages and 15,000 words into it and I'm still not done writing. So this is a disaster. This is just a fucking calamity for me. Um, and for you, the listener.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's just like, there's a few people where every rabbit trail is actually so fun.

• 2:34Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  Like, yeah, like, like you're like the one about, uh, who's the guy that?

• 2:40Robert Evans?

  Oh, Von List. Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, him.

• 2:42Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Who's, who's the dude that freaking ruined Cambodia? Not the Khmer Rouge?

• 2:47Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pol Pot.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Pol Pot, not him. I'm talking about the American guy that ruined so many.

• 2:52Robert Evans?

  Oh, you mean, uh, Kissinger, Kissinger. Yes.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  Kissinger. Yes. Where I'm like, every rabbit hole on Kissinger is its own adventure and you can't not say it.

• 3:00Robert Evans?

  Yeah. You gotta keep going down. And it's like with Himmler, we've got to talk about all of these different guys in the occult, right? Like there's just too many. And then that's a whole story. And you've got to talk about these other Nazi leaders who, you know, Himmler interfaced with and these other things. Like, there's just so much to get into. So I guess let's get into it still and keep talking about Heinrich Himmler.

• 3:22Speaker 03

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• 3:27Robert Evans?

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• 4:11Robert Evans?

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• 4:34Robert Evans?

  Uh, when we last left off, he had become Reichsfer of the SS by ratting on his boss for using a Jewish tailor. Yes, yes.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  By Takashi 690.

• 4:44Robert Evans?

  This is like, it's not a, I mean.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  That's for me and you, Sophie.

• 4:48Robert Evans?

  Stitches, I'm trying to figure out.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Robert has no idea what's going on.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was for me and you, Sophie.

• 4:52Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Well, I'm also, I'm trying to figure out the joke here, because you normally you'd say snitches get stitches. But in this case, he snitched about a tailor, and tailors literally make stitches. But I'm not, I still, I like, how do I, where's the joke?

• 5:03Speaker 02

  I snitched on stitches.

• 5:04Robert Evans?

  Right, yes, snitch, snitches about stitches?

• 5:07Speaker 02

  I snitched on stitches.

• 5:08Robert Evans?

  There should be a more satisfying joke to make, but I didn't figure it out yet.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  I got it. It's Lilo and Snitch.

• 5:15Speaker 02

  Bars. See, it was there. It's in there. It's still like, there's something there.

• 5:19Robert Evans?

  I don't accept that.

• 5:20Speaker 01

  I'm in pain and that was really funny.

• 5:23Robert Evans?

  I don't accept that at all. Um, anyway.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  Snitches.

• 5:28Robert Evans?

  Who got accepted was Heinrich Himmler as Reichsfer of the SS, which is a really petty reason to get to be the leader of the SS. But the SS ain't shit at this point. That's very important that you understand, right? There's a couple of hundred guys. They're very much seen as, oh, they were formed as this elite. And obviously Hitler's bodyguard is a part of it. They're kind of like this, the younger brother of the SA, and they're just, there's tens of thousands of people in the SA. The SS is not much. So the fact that Himmler isn't much himself doesn't seem weird, because like, well, who gives a shit about who's in charge of the SS? Like, it just doesn't matter that much at this point. Um, now Himmler's first order of business was to. Double down on some of the elite entry requirements while relaxing others.

• 6:13Robert Evans?

  He relaxes the rules around height. You don't have to be as tall anymore to join the SS, right? But he's, he gets more emphatic about the Aryan pedigree, right? Like that we, we need to make sure that all of these people are like good, have good Nordic genes. Only people who have like a clean racial background should be joining. Now, at this point, they're not actually doing anything to prove that. It's like, does he look right? Yeah, okay, you know? And obviously, does he look right is the kind of thing where part of what's going on is like, do I like him? Because Himmler doesn't look right, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, he does not look like a Nordic, you know, traditional Nordic, you know, the idolized Nordic, you know, person.

• 6:55Robert Evans?

  So there, he's talking a big game about how we're very, you know, we're super, we don't want any slobs in here, right? We don't want any Poles in here. But they're also not doing very, they're not doing anything actually officially to make that the case. It's just kind of rhetoric at this point. Yeah. And he sees his goal, and the thing that he's going to be good at, the first thing he's going to be really good at is expanding the SS as a power within the party, right? While maintaining at least the image that they have strong standards, that they're elite, that we only take the best of the best. They're not only taking the best of the best, quite the opposite. But that image of exclusiveness, right, of exclusivity, that's key to why, like, the fact that he, what he's really good at is propagandizing to the rest of the party

• 7:40Robert Evans?

  that this is the organization for the best of us. And soon, guys from the SA are like, well, shit, I can actually see that a lot of the guys are, I mean, like drunken louts. I don't want to be associated with them. Hey, can I join the SS? Like, you know, like, they start poaching people. That's how he's able to initially start rebuilding the SS is by, and he's reaching for people like him who are not impressive, who are not successes, and who have kind of, in a lot of cases, been failures at everything outside of this. But they desperately want to feel special. And that's what the SS offers them, right? That's what the Nazi party offers in Broad. But then these guys- Who get into the party wanting that, okay, this will finally make me feel like I've I belong somewhere.

• 8:24Speaker 02

  Like I'm a real boy.

• 8:25Robert Evans?

  I still feel like kind of a fuck up and a failure. Ah, the SS is there, right? You know, that'll fix it.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  Listen, that's called the upsell right there. That's that's the joining the the the, uh, what is it? The the war room.

• 8:39Robert Evans?

  Right.

• 8:39Speaker 02

  In, uh, you know, for Andrew Tate's thing, you know what I'm saying? You get to join the war room. You know what I'm saying?

• 8:45Robert Evans?

  Yeah. And that's like, yeah, that's exactly what's like, it's the same. It's the same play every time this happens, right? You're reaching out to these people who, uh, they they personally feel like failures and you're offering them like, if you join this group, if you belong here, you know,

• 9:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:00Robert Evans?

  clearly you must be important. You must be impressive. Now, as early as 1927, Himmler Star is describing himself in Letters to Marga, who, you know, they're not married in 1927. He's describing himself as a knight and he starts describing the SS in a similar way. Not just, not as an elite military force, but specifically as a knightly order. And it's one constructed in the image of a group that he had read obsessively about as a boy, the Knights Templar, right? Like he is. Yeah, like he he he, this idea of this group that he views as these were these elite warriors protecting the faithful against the the Muslim hordes. Now, in reality, they're mostly bankers, right? Like that was the bulk of the Knights Templar.

• 9:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:42Robert Evans?

  But he's, and that's what he wants to make the SS into, right? Is that is a new sort of Knights Templar dedicated instead of to Christianity, which he's falling away from, dedicated to protecting the Nordic race, you know? That's it's instead of Christian pilgrims, it's protecting like the blood of the Nordic people. That's what he increasingly, even though what's actually happening on the ground is he's sort of still treading water, barely trying to separate this organization from the SA and trying to like, make it something that can stand on its own.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Do you think, do you think is, I mean, this is obviously like, how do you reach back in the past and do this? But I'm like, I wonder how much of this is a personal self improvement project and how much of it is? I have finally found purpose and I'm really passionate about building this thing. Or is it just more for him? You know what I'm saying? Like, I just wonder, and obviously it's never that cut and dry, but like, I just wonder like, how much of this is really just like a self-aggrandizing project in his head?

• 10:47Robert Evans?

  I, I think that that's, that's, it's a hugely important point that he is tying his self-worth to this, right?

• 10:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:56Robert Evans?

  That he feels like he should be, he feels like he should be special in a way that the world has not recognized. But if he's able to forge the SS into this thing, this knightly order of his dreams, well, then he matters, then he's important, then he is like this legendary figure, like.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  I am the star.

• 11:16Robert Evans?

  Right.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  I'm the star I've always seen myself as.

• 11:19Robert Evans?

  Exactly.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:21Robert Evans?

  His ego is entirely tied to the SS, right? And so he's going to throw his whole life into this.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:28Robert Evans?

  This is the thing that's offering him what he's always wanted and never had, right?

• 11:31Speaker 02

  Can you not see, can you not see how I'm standing on business right now?

• 11:34Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  That's another one that's, that's another one for Sophie. That's another, it's a, it's a Justin Bieber clip, so.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  It's really one of the best.

• 11:43Robert Evans?

  He's got a lot in common with Justin Bieber, you know?

• 11:45Speaker 02

  I love it. Okay, side note to everyone, this, there's a piece of media, speaking of Daily Zygotes, there was this clip of this guy who took, who took a picture of Justin Bieber and how he looks now. And he has, he was like, he has reached the, uh, the level of uni race in the sense that he could pass for everything now. Like, that he kinda looks like he's half-black. Yeah, he kinda looks black, but he kinda looks Latino, but you know he's a white boy. It's like, this fool might like take your lunch money and do your taxes. Like, you know what I'm saying? So it's just, so anyways, can you not stand how I'm standing on business right now? Anyway, let's move on.

• 12:23Robert Evans?

  Well, and he, yeah, I, I wonder a lot with, with Himmler. Cause this is clearly the root of all this is that he never got to fight. He never got to prove himself as a man. So he's going to these increasingly elaborate lengths to prove himself as a man by creating this whole organization. That, you know, is the most important and elite thing in the Nazi party, which is the world and is Yeah. The savior of the race. So I'm really saving humanity, the only part of humanity that matters. If he had just gotten to go to the front line and in fucking take some incoming fire here, a bullet whizzed past his head, maybe get wounded. Yeah. Would that have fixed him? Like, I don't think, I have to feel like, because like, I can tell you personally,

• 13:05Robert Evans?

  just being in combat doesn't fix insecurity. No. It doesn't make you like, like, but I think he feels that way, right? I think this is all him making up for the fact that he never got his baptism of fire, right? Yeah. This is, this is, uh, I think a lot of it's rooted in that insecurity. And obviously that insecurity starts elsewhere.

• 13:26Robert Evans?

  So it takes him about a year to go from joining the SS to commanding the whole organization. And within that year, it goes from, again, it'd been down to like maybe 300 guys to back up over a thousand. He's pretty good at, at like expanding this organization. And he, he pictures it as a medieval institution immediately. And this, he does, he can't instantly introduce all of these occult elements that he's, he's obsessed with, but they're always in his head. And I think everyone is casually aware of the fact that the Nazis got up to some occult shenanigans. They were obsessed with ancient artifacts and the like. This is a major factor in a bunch of popular media, the Hellboy comics and the Hellboy movies, the first one of which is really good.

• 14:11Robert Evans?

  Obviously, two out of three of the Indiana Jones trilogy movies are about the Nazis being obsessed with, with artifacts. And there's numerous other fictional depictions of the Third Reich, which focus, including the Wolfenstein video games. Right? That, that these guys are like, that the Nazis were obsessed with like magic and like ancient artifacts and rituals and stuff. And none of those depictions are accurate, but all of them are based in more real history than you'd expect, right? Yeah. Like a surprising amount of the stuff in those movies has a direct historic analog. Yeah. I want to give a caveat up top that, that. While those movies are rooted in the reality that these beliefs were very common,

• 14:54Robert Evans?

  particularly within Heinrich Himmler's SS, they were not a mass, they had no impact on the Reich's performance in war. They had no real impact on its crimes against humanity, and they had fairly little impact on Hitler himself. We'll talk about this, but Hitler gets fed up with all of the woo woo occult bullshit at like kind of midway through the process.

• 15:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:17Robert Evans?

  Heinrich Himmler never gets over this stuff. And he is, after a point, the high, the last high ranking Nazi, who is super obsessed with the mysticism, you know?

• 15:28Robert Evans?

  And so all of that stuff, all of like the shit in the, those popular movies, is more based in Himmler's actual factual history than Hitler's, which I find really interesting.

• 15:38Speaker 02

  That's super interesting to think like, first of all, that, that, that element of needing some sort of divine mandate has never left us.

• 15:47Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  To like, to justify whatever atrocities or power that we're seeking.

• 15:51Robert Evans?

  It makes it easier.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And then, you know, if you start with that, that already that foundational premise that there is some sort of, again, supernatural mandate or reason that I'm supposed to be here, then you have to, then you have to reverse engineer it and then go find it, you know? And the idea that like, like you said, like, it don't always necessarily mean that the person actually in charge really gives a shit about any of it. It's just, this helps me stay, get in power, but the minute you get annoying, y'all might get jettisoned out. I think about like the, the Doug Wilson of it all, like the, the, the Christian nationalists that like, and I think what's, maybe it's not the same, it's obviously not the same.

• 16:35Speaker 02

  There's never a one to one, but I feel like, I don't believe that that movement gives a shit about Trump either. You know what I'm saying? Nor does Trump give a shit about them. They're just like, we have a, a mutual need.

• 16:47Robert Evans?

  Right.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  That each of us. Fulfill, like you fulfill my need, I fulfill your need. But we really don't like each other, you know what I'm saying?

• 16:55Robert Evans?

  Yeah, we don't have anything in common outside of this, right? Yeah. And that, you know, that's, that's the case for a lot of these guys, which is why Hitler is, will jettison so many of them, right? This is like, we talked about the Strassers and the MAGA communists, right? As soon as Hitler's done with the Strassers, once they're no longer useful, they get the bullet, right? Like, at least they're the odd of us, yeah.

• 17:16Speaker 02

  I hate it when the worst people on earth do something relatable, you know? Like, like, that's like Hitler being like, alright.

• 17:22Robert Evans?

  I'm done with you guys.

• 17:24Speaker 02

  These weirdos, like, do we still gotta work with them? Like, okay, relatable. Yeah, I'm good, bro. Like, Trump walking around the roof at the White House, I was like, that's kind of relatable, homie. Like, just like, I just need to walk, y'all, leave me alone for a second.

• 17:38Robert Evans?

  Yeah, it's, it's a lot of how, like, what he did with Bannon, right? Where it's like, you were useful up to a point and now you're kind of a liability. You know, I, I think Bannon, Bannon doesn't see himself that way, but I think if there's a, if, if our right has their night of the long knives, there's a decent chance he gets it, you know?

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly.

• 17:55Robert Evans?

  Um, so, uh, as I've said, you know, the mysticism and the occult stuff, not a massive impact on what happens in the war, but it's hugely influential both to Himmler himself and how the SS becomes what it is. It does have a formative impact on how the SS is organized and like why Himmler does a lot of the things with it that he does. So, we're gonna have to pull back in time a bit to discuss some other major figures in Germanic mysticism, right? We talked earlier in the last couple of episodes about Guido von List, you know? He was kind of the first guy I wanted to get into the background. He's channeling ghosts, he's learning the secret history of these priests of Wotan, the Arminan, right?

• 18:38Robert Evans?

  Another influential mystic theorist, who's like, kind of coming up right around the same time as Guido, the two of them are peers, is Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels.

• 18:49Speaker 02

  Woo, that's a name.

• 18:51Robert Evans?

  And like Guido, he's not a real, that's not his real birth name. He's not a von, you know? He's actually born Adolf. Joseph Lanz in 1874. And like Von List, he's an Austrian from Vienna, which I think is interesting. These two guys who are the two real founding fathers of like the volkish occult movement.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:11Robert Evans?

  Are both Austrians from Vienna. That's really interesting. Also Hitler, Austrian from Vienna, right?

• 19:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:19Robert Evans?

  Also Freud, Austrian from Vienna. There's a lot of thinking about, there's a lot of guys who are all trying to like puzzle out why the world is the way it is in Vienna, who all come to some really wild conclusions. And I think the fact that cocaine is like water at this period of time probably has an impact on that. But I don't have any evidence that Lister Liebenfels were on blow. I just really suspect they were, you know?

• 19:47Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

• 19:48Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Cocaine really helps to convince you that the voices in your head are telling you the truth about your ancestors.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  What just came out of your mouth is logical.

• 19:56Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 19:57Speaker 02

  Like, yeah, yeah.

• 19:58Robert Evans?

  The confidence that blow gives you.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  Just left a rap festival last weekend and I'm like, I've talked to plenty of people that I was like, oh, you think what you said made sense?

• 20:06Robert Evans?

  Yeah, because you're snow blind, you know?

• 20:09Speaker 02

  You are snow blind, boy.

• 20:10Robert Evans?

  And sometimes, you know, it can work or it can't, right? We get, we get it, the, the book, because Stephen King took enough cocaine to feel like all of those weird scenes with the child orgy. Like, this is a good idea. I got to publish. People are gonna love this shit, right?

• 20:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:24Robert Evans?

  And we loved the other parts of that book, right?

• 20:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:27Robert Evans?

  On the whole, it worked out for him.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Every once in a while it works.

• 20:31Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Fucking Fleetwood Mac, thanks to cocaine, had the courage to be like, should we just turn our whole breakup, all of our breakups into an album? Yeah, let's fucking do it, right? Unfortunately, sometimes you get Freudian psychoanalytic theory, which is a mixed bag. And all of this shit with Liebenfels and List, which is pure toxicity.

• 20:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 20:51Robert Evans?

  But we're talking about Adolf Joseph Lanz, born in 1874. His parents, again, these are middle class, upper middle class families. His dad, like Himmler's dad, was a teacher. And again, it's just really worth emphasizing that all of these people, Himmler and his wife, List and Liebenfels, are like comfortable, middle class guys with like dads who do pretty well.

• 21:12Speaker 02

  So, so the problem is middle class white men.

• 21:17Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, where they've got enough money that they're not worried about much, but they don't have very much to, they've got very little to do. And they have this feeling that I'm special and I'm owed more than the world is giving me. And that leads you into some weird places. In the case of Leibniz. This is, this is a thing, right? I don't think it's just, it's not just white people, right? Like, it's like, it's this problem of, but white people are more represented in the upper middle class. If you have people who, as kids, they've got like money, but they're bored as hell. And then when they go up into the world, they expect things to go better for them than it does. And they need an explanation for why.

• 22:00Robert Evans?

  Cause obviously I'm supposed to be more important and impressive than I wound up being. What's wrong? Whose fault is it? Right? Yeah. So it's possible that Leibniz's mother may have had some Jewish ancestry, which is going to be relevant later. But as a boy, he, like Himmler, he's obsessed with medieval history. Although he's initially more interested in like Arthurian myths than Germanic myths, right? He's really, really into King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table and all those stories. He initially opts for a life of faith and he becomes a Cistercian monk in the 1890s. And he takes up the name George. But the life of a monk is boring as shit.

• 22:43Robert Evans?

  So he is compensated by developing an obsession with astrology and medieval history. One day in 1894, he stumbles upon a gravestone for a member of the Knights Templar. And I think this gravestone is probably like on the grounds of the monastery. I'm not a hundred percent sure, but we talked a little bit about them earlier. The real Knights Templar were a Catholic militant order founded in the 1100s to defend religious pilgrims in the Holy Land during the Crusades. In their early period, they were elite soldiers. These are actual knights. They're wearing the plate mail, you know? These are like, you know, fighting on horseback. They're, the, these are like the military elite of the crusades for a brief period of time.

• 23:27Robert Evans?

  But the Knights Templar continue on for a couple hundred years. And the vast majority, like 10% of them are soldiers, right? The vast majority of the order are bankers. And in fact, the first, there's a, this is kind of one of the first examples of an international banking system is created by the Knights Templar. Because they build this network of bases from the Holy Land all the way into Europe that function as an early banking, international banking system. Where if you go to one of these places, they have the records and you can like pull your money out wherever you happen to be, right? Like, and that's a very, that's a fairly new idea at this point in time. There's some other stuff. They're not the, they're not the first people to do something like this or the only ones.

• 24:11Robert Evans?

  But they're among the very first people who are operating an internet, an intercontinental banking system. That's a really wild thing to exist in the 1100s, 1200s, right?

• 24:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:23Robert Evans?

  Now, this is legitimately impressive and it's a very, the history of the Knights Templar is fascinating, but the fact that they're the bankers for most of Christendom leads to problems for them because people don't like bankers, right?

• 24:38Speaker 02

  Didn't know.

• 24:39Robert Evans?

  People don't like bankers in any period of time for the same reason, which is that they wind up in debt to those banks, right? And in the 1300s, the King of France winds up owing a shitload of money to the Templars. And if you're the king and you owe a lot of money to these people, you know what solves your problem real easily? Arresting them. Declare them heretics and arrest these assholes who you owe money to, right?

• 25:07Speaker 02

  You just get rid of them. The most illogical.

• 25:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:11Robert Evans?

  Now-

• 25:11Speaker 02

  That is so funny to me.

• 25:13Robert Evans?

  He charges them with like worshipping idols. I think he's saying that they're basically like devil worshippers. And he also charged them with homosexual behavior, right?

• 25:20Speaker 02

  Of course he did.

• 25:21Robert Evans?

  Which I'm sure is a lot of, these are monks, basically, right?

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:24Robert Evans?

  Of course, of course, some of them are shitting at each other, right? You know, that's part of why people become monks.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:28Robert Evans?

  But these, these charges are bullshit. He's making shit up so he has an excuse to arrest the Knights Templar and get rid of this like debt problem that he's got. So they take a bunch of these guys into custody in France and they torture the ever living shit out of them until they confess to being, you know, worshipping false idols and engaging in gay orgies and all this stuff, right?

• 25:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:49Robert Evans?

  You know, you can get people to say anything if you cut enough pieces off of them. So the king goes to the pope and he's like, look at what all of these guys admitted to doing under torture. You should arrest the whole order all over the Christian world, right? Because clearly they're all guilty. This conspiracy goes all the way to the top. The pope, being the pope, is like, well, yeah, this is like, this is like a power center that's not me. So I've get some benefit in getting rid of these guys. And I'm, I'm very much simplifying the story.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 26:21Robert Evans?

  But this all ends with the pope ordering all of the kings of Europe to arrest the Knights Templar, the whole order, and they are expunged brutally, right? That is the real history of the Knights Templar in, in brief. But guys like Liebenfels and Himmler, uh, who are both, both Himmler and Liebenfels are obsessed with the Knights Templar from a young age. They're not interested in reality. To them, the Templars are heroic badass warriors fighting evil Muslims to protect the faithful. This feeling was reinforced in Liebenfels when he, he comes upon this grave. Because on this Templar grave that he finds, it's carved with a relief of a knight stomping on a monkey with his foot. And I want to quote now from the book Hitler's Vienna by Brigitte Hamann.

• 27:04Robert Evans?

  Quote, "Lanz interpreted this as a reference to the need for aristocratic mastermen to subject monkeymen, and from then on placed himself in the service of this idea, which had come to him in a dream." So he sees this thing and then he has a dream about it and he becomes like, oh, what the knights Templar are trying to tell me, right? Because he thinks this dream is like these, the spirits of these deceased knights speaking to him is that there needs to be an aristocratic master race that can keep a foot on the monkey men. And I don't think I need to tell you who the monkey men are.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 27:41Robert Evans?

  Right?

• 27:41Speaker 02

  Nope. Don't need to tell me.

• 27:43Robert Evans?

  To be clear, the kind of white supremacists that this guy is and these guys, it's not just non white people. It's also other kinds of white people, right? The Poles are just as that non white to that, right?

• 27:53Speaker 02

  You know? You trying to purge Polish blood out of you, then yeah, no, you have really stretched your definition of white.

• 28:00Robert Evans?

  Yeah. Yeah. This is, it's just, it's a different kind of white supremacy and a little bit than what we have today. Not any less bad, just different. You know what else is different? The quality of advertisers that we have on this podcast. No one else has ever had advertisers as good as we have, you know?

• 28:19Speaker 02

  We do it, we do it blindfolded. Like we be getting these good ad, ad we don't even know. It's just, they just be good.

• 28:26Robert Evans?

  A lot of people don't know this. Every single one of our advertisers has been approved as a saint by the pope, you know? Every one of them.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  The Chicago Pope too.

• 28:35Robert Evans?

  That's right. A Chicago Pope.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Which means it double tells.

• 28:38Robert Evans?

  So you know it's good.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 28:40Robert Evans?

  Mm hmm, mm hmm. Anyway, here's ads. This ad is brought to you by ViiV Healthcare, the makers of Devoto Dolutegravir Lamivudine. If you're living with HIV, do learn about Devoto. Devoto is a complete HIV treatment by prescription only for some people 12 and older. Your doctor will determine if Devoto was right for you. Most HIV pills contain three or four medicines. Devoto is as effective with just two. No other complete HIV pill contains fewer medicines than Devoto.

• 29:09Speaker 04

  It is unknown if Devoto is safe and effective if you have HIV and hepatitis B. If you have Hep B, don't stop Devoto without talking to your doctor, as it may get worse or harder to treat. Don't take Devoto if you're allergic to its ingredients, or taking Dofetilide due to serious or life-threatening side effects. If you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop Devoto and get medical help right away. Other serious or life-threatening side effects include severe liver problems and lactic acid buildup. If you're female or obese, you may be more at risk. Tell your doctor about your medicines or supplements, medical conditions, liver or kidney problems, pregnancy, breastfeeding, or planned pregnancy.

• 29:45Robert Evans?

  Do ask your doctor about fewer medicines. Visit devoto.com or call 1-877-844-8872. History's full of dirty players. Don't let your butt be one of them. You know what bastards and buttholes both have in common? They're full of [BLEEP]. But with Dude Wipes, your butt doesn't have to be. Don't let dry TP dictate your aftermath. Dude Wipes remove what toilet paper leaves behind. Dude Wipes are the perfect poop time partner in crime, at home or on the go. Flushable, plastic-free Dude Wipes are made with 99% water and plant-based ingredients. They're gentle enough for sensitive skin, but tough enough for messes of historical proportions. Unlike Baby Wipes, Dude Wipes are flushable and designed to begin breaking down when flushed. No battles here. They come in a range of at-home and travel-friendly formats:

• 30:30Robert Evans?

  individually wrapped singles, eight-count pocket packs, and 48-count big daddies. So the wipe can match the crime, every time. Dude Wipes in a good World War II novel: two bathroom musts when it comes to mustering up a great number two. So stop Stalin, grab a pack of Dude Wipes, and wipe the slate clean. Dude Wipes: Best Clean Pants Down. Available at major retailers nationwide.

• 30:56Robert Evans?

  Ahhh. Great stuff. Um, so we're back, you know? We're enjoying, uh, our ads. We're sponsored by the Knights Templar, um, all of whom are currently being tortured by the King of France. So, you know, very impressive that they're still able to sponsor a podcast. Uh, we wish you all the best of luck. They are bankers. Getting your toenails pulled out. Yeah, yeah. Uh, and bankers love getting their toenails pulled out, you know? Ah, if only that had happened after the financial crash in 2008, you know? If there was ever a time to torture bankers.

• 31:30Speaker 02

  Man.

• 31:31Robert Evans?

  Right?

• 31:32Speaker 02

  They'd have, they'd have really learnt their lesson then.

• 31:34Robert Evans?

  Yeah, maybe that would have fixed things. Maybe the king of France was on to something.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:38Robert Evans?

  Um, in 1899, Liebenfels is ordained to the priesthood. The next year, he leaves the order due to what he described as a growing nervousness, and instead founded a new order of his own, which he called the Order of the New Templars. Now, unlike the Knights Templars, his new order is obsessed with the Holy Grail, um, which he has grown interested in because he's reading all these books on medieval myths. And so, the, the New Templars, their three interests are the Holy Grail, men's rights, and race science.

• 32:11Speaker 02

  Good fucker. God. Shit. God.

• 32:17Robert Evans?

  Ah, it's good stuff, huh?

• 32:19Speaker 02

  What the shit?

• 32:21Robert Evans?

  The Holy Grail, men's rights, and race science.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  Oh my god. Oh, man.

• 32:29Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 32:30Speaker 02

  It's like, like, you're already the worst human beings, and then you just had to add salsa on top of it. Like, you just, you're already, you just added papatio on top of already being the worst human beings ever. Just, god, I hate these dudes. Okay.

• 32:45Robert Evans?

  It's so funny. The whole men's rights thing is always so, it's fascinating to me that that's every single time.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  Every time.

• 32:53Robert Evans?

  Yeah. And like, you're, you're angry about men's rights in the fucking 1902? Like, what the fuck, man? You own, women can't even vote most places.

• 33:03Speaker 02

  Yes. I'm like, you, men's, you're the only ones with rights.

• 33:07Robert Evans?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  Like, what war are you fighting?

• 33:11Robert Evans?

  Okay.

• 33:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:12Robert Evans?

  Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's really, it's, it's magical. So- Liebenfels starts recruiting men to his new Templar order that he sees as natural rulers, right? He's trying to recruit the mastermen. He wants to make, he wants to make a knightly order and fill it with like, natural leaders who can like, take over as the, the hierarchy of, of Germany, right? Like, that's, that's what he's, he wants to create here. And his ideal candidate for the new Templars are independently wealthy, racially pure Aryan men who are honorable. And honorable to him means that they're willing

• 33:51Robert Evans?

  to give George von Liebenfels money. And a lot of, a shocking number of people are down to do that. And using their donations, he buys an old crumbling castle outside of Wachau to be their headquarters. And the castle's name is Werferstein.

• 34:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 34:09Robert Evans?

  Now.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  Wiener Schnitzel. Got it.

• 34:11Robert Evans?

  If you played, if you played first person shooters in the 90s, or more recently, you've heard of Wolfenstein, right?

• 34:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:20Robert Evans?

  Wolfenstein 3D, one of the very first first person shooter games ever made. I think, very early game. And obviously, there's been more modern adaptations. And the basic plot is you're an allied soldier in a castle filled with like, German occult bullshit, and you've got to fight your way to the end where Hitler has a robot body and two chain guns for arms. But there's a lot of occult weird bullshit. There's like, they're raising the dead, there's magic and all sorts of stuff. And the name of Castle Wolfenstein comes from Castle Werferstein, right? Like, this is, and that's not the only, there's another castle that also inspired Wolfenstein. But yeah, it's wild, right?

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:02Robert Evans?

  Like, there is, it's one of those things, the amount of actual history that these games are based on is kind of surprising. You would expect it to be basically none, but there is more than a little bit of real history here. Obviously, the Nazis weren't really raising the dead. Most historians agree Hitler did not have a robot body and chain gun arms. But that is still debated.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  Listen, I was gonna say, it's still debated. Still debated.

• 35:28Robert Evans?

  Yeah, I think Richard Evans's biography of Hitler really goes into the chain gun arms hypothesis, but it's argued, you know?

• 35:37Speaker 02

  I think I read a book somewhere.

• 35:38Robert Evans?

  Yes, so in 1902, George, who's now going as Lanz von Liebenfels, adopts a fake identity, complete with forged documents. He now claimed to have been born in Messina, Italy, and he changed the name of his father from Johann Lanz to Baron Johann Lanz de Liebenfels. Now, he claims that this invented father was a member of the Swabian nobility, right? Which makes, obviously, Liebenfels a noble, which is why he starts going by Von. Now, both of his real parents are still alive. Like, wait a second, you're lying about who your dad is while your real dad is alive? But he doesn't see, this doesn't seem to have caused him any problems, right?

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Well, you know, ain't no internet, so you can't just call your daddy.

• 36:26Robert Evans?

  Who's gonna call this up, right?

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, you gonna go all the way into the countryside to go find my father?

• 36:32Robert Evans?

  Yeah, so he goes, he basically like, yeah, starts claiming like, no, I'm a, I'm an Italian, I'm a Swabian nobleman, you know, so you can call me Lanz von Liebenfels. That's, that's my name now. And he also gives himself a fake PhD, because if you're forging documents, why stop at one?

• 36:48Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, why not, bro? Like, dude, add the guacamole, man, upgrade to the, to the platinum package. You're already, you already changed your name. You done already gave your, yeah, just upgrade the, dude. Yeah, man, and then like, why don't you throw in like, throw in a couple ex-girlfriends? You know what I mean? Like a couple, couple supermodel ex-girlfriends, why not?

• 37:10Robert Evans?

  Yep, so by this point, Liebenfels has become a follower of Von List, you know, who creates this Armanin theory about these priests of Wotan. And, and List adopts Liebenfels as kind of a protege. Like, he sees this, oh, you changed your name too? You're also pretending to, to come from an aristocratic noble background, just like me, you know? They kind of like, they're simpatico, there's just like this. Alliance that they have because they're both the same kind of con man and they're the same kind of nerd, you know, again, in a modern era, fucking Von List would be the dungeon master and Liebenfels would be like the guy who always has time for recession, right?

• 37:51Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 37:53Robert Evans?

  And, and there, there, Von List is aware that Liebenfels is like faking his ancestry because he creates a fake family tree for the Von Liebenfels like family with a heraldic figure that includes imagery from List's invented Arminen. So he, he creates like a fake family tree and like a family crest using like the, the runes that those ghosts told him in a dream, you know, to help, all to help out Liebenfels, you know?

• 38:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, I just feel like if you, if you're like sitting like four chairs down in like the office meeting, like, are you like, we gotta take, we have to take him serious? Like, I have to take this serious. Did like, he just, you just made up your whole past? Or do they not know that this is comically made up?

• 38:40Robert Evans?

  I think outside of Liebenfels and List, their followers don't. And certainly the people who are just like reading, because they've got their followers who are actually showing up and doing rituals with them. Both Liebenfels and List have their own organizations. And I've said like, Liebenfels has like this Order of the New Templar. Most of those guys don't know. And it's hard for me not to think of Liebenfels and List. I can imagine them as like me when I'm 10 with my friend as we're like inventing, you know, creating our own worlds for like D and D games or like creating our own Space Marine chapters for Warhammer and being like, and this is this guy's backstory and he did all of these things, right? Like that's what they're doing, right?

• 39:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say, but we grown ass men. So that's why I mean by like, it's fun if we know we're suspending reality, but you literally went to the office to change your name to a, and to- Yo dad is alive, sir.

• 39:31Robert Evans?

  Yeah, your father simply is alive still. Like, you know this is full of shit.

• 39:36Speaker 02

  We know he's not that.

• 39:38Robert Evans?

  Yeah. That's the big question is, right? Does the, does the fact that these guys know they're lying make them believe their bullshit any less? And I think the answer is no. And I'm going to quote from Brigitte Hamon again. Quote, "Later on, Lanz would explain these manipulations by saying he wanted to avoid astrological checkups of himself. However, the real reason was the Hoffenreich family's Jewish ancestry, which made Lanz fail to meet his own racial criteria in the order of the new Templars. He did succeed in sneaking these false facts into the city of Vienna's official registration files. Thus Adolf Lanz became the Aryan Baron Adolf George Lanz von Liebenfels's PhD." And so, he justifies this when people find out, you know, anyone who finds out, he's

• 40:21Robert Evans?

  like, "Oh, I didn't want anyone to be able to like, do like astrologically, like, like spy on me. So I, I had to, I had to fake some dates about my birth, but that's the only reason." He's actually doing this because he's got Jewish family. And List, again, the fact that List is willing to help him disguise his Jewish ancestry. And I think it's because it lets List spread his bullshit even more because he gets to create a fake family tree and a fake family crest. And he can go to, "You don't think the Armenian are real? Well, look, my friend who's a real noble and registered with the government, his family crest has these symbols that came to me in a dream. Obviously, everything I'm saying is real, you know?"

• 40:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:59Robert Evans?

  Now, like his mentor List, Liebenfels makes his money as a journalist. In pre-war Imperial Germany, a number of moneyed conservatives had subsidized the creation of pan-German newspapers, which existed to support the still new concept of German as an identity by pretending it had always been a thing. So he's being paid by these right-wing conservatives who buy newspapers to have guys like this lie about the German identity, right? Like, because nationalism, you know, is in their best financial interests.

• 41:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:33Robert Evans?

  And Liebenfels's patron is this guy George Schonerer, uh, who's the- You know, he's this very rich dude who's a nationalist and Liebenfels repays Schonauer by licking his boots and print like he writes, you know, as he's writing about these ancient Aryans and the volkish movement, he's writing about how great Schonauer is, right? They're like, this guy is the very model of a, of a, of a, of a Nordic, you know, Superman, right?

• 41:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:00Robert Evans?

  Now, as time goes on, Liebenfels gets more and more obsessed with Liszt's Arminian priests and the ancient Aryans. And this causes him to break with the Catholic Church that he'd literally been a monk, right?

• 42:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:12Robert Evans?

  Now, part of why he breaks from the church is that his financial patron, Schonauer, had also created something called the Away From Rome Movement. Now, this is part of a larger struggle. We've talked about this in several episodes. At the birth of the German nation of Imperial Germany after the Franco-Prussian War, Otto von Bismarck has this huge fight with the Catholic Church. Because the Catholic Church is a problem for the Kaiser, it's a problem for Bismarck.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:38Robert Evans?

  And it's going to be a problem for the Nazis because Catholics don't just look at whoever's in charge of their country as a leader. They've always also got the Pope.

• 42:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:46Robert Evans?

  And that's the second center of power. That's an issue for you if you want to be a dictator, right?

• 42:50Speaker 02

  If you ain't first, you're last, baby, you know what I'm saying?

• 42:53Robert Evans?

  Exactly, exactly. And so Schonauer starts this Away From Rome Movement. And part of why he likes Liebenfels is Liebenfels's weird pagan shit. Even though Schonauer maybe doesn't fully buy into the pagan stuff, it lets, it's, it's something that separates people from the church in Rome, you know? And Lanz's big innovation, in fact, is that he turns the Away From Rome Movement into the Aryan Race Movement. The Aryan Race Movement gets started, a lot of the, the initial impetus behind it is,

• 43:25Robert Evans?

  people can be, like, anyone can be a Catholic, right?

• 43:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:29Robert Evans?

  You don't have to be white. The Catholic Church is happy to have non-white people in it. Obviously, still pretty racist.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:37Robert Evans?

  But, non-white people can be Catholic. Non-white people can go to heaven, right?

• 43:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:42Robert Evans?

  Jesus will save all of them, you know, that, that's pretty core Catholic doctrine, right? Yeah, it may be white. Jesus, but he'll still save a black person or you know, someone who's brown and someone who's Native American, right? They can all be Catholic. And that's a huge issue for racists like Liebenfels and List and Shonur, right? And so

• 44:02Speaker 02

  Wait, hold up. That's another thought that never crossed my mind that like, if you're a white supremacist that still believes in somewhat some version of the Christian God, that you like, wait a minute now, you telling me heaven is gonna have other races in it?

• 44:20Robert Evans?

  Hmm, it's not segregated like the water fountains?

• 44:23Speaker 02

  That's gonna be a prob- ah, that's a problem for me. Like, you know, I, I, I never thought it that-

• 44:29Robert Evans?

  That's exactly what Liebenfels is saying. And that's why, again, the birth of the Aryan Race Movement is in trying, wanting to come up with something to replace Catholicism in the minds of a lot of Germans and replace, because you know, they're focused initially on Catholicism, but this is a problem that they have with all of Christianity, which is that-

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was like the Protestant Reformation.

• 44:50Robert Evans?

  If you take it too ser- if you take your Christianity seriously, you have to accept that other races are loved by God and can be saved, right?

• 45:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:01Robert Evans?

  But if those other races aren't really human, right?

• 45:04Speaker 02

  That's the question.

• 45:04Robert Evans?

  You know, then there's some room to both be like, well, Jesus is an Aryan and God, the only people who are fit for heaven are Aryans, right?

• 45:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the, that's the, uh, yeah, the Jonathan Edwards, like the sinners in the hands of angry God guy. Like, he was like, dude, you know, if, if all people are made in the image of God, including the slaves and the savages, then we should give them the gospel. I'm just not sure that they're human.

• 45:31Robert Evans?

  Right, right. And that's what like Liebenfels is trying to replace the Roman Catholic Church and to a larger extent, Christianity with this worship of like the Aryan race and this idea of, no, no, no, what matters is not saving souls. What matters is saving the Aryan race through selective breeding, right? In order to fix the problems that race mixing has created, right?

• 45:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:56Robert Evans?

  Um, and Liebenfels's argument is- Is that everyone's, every, every German's primary duty is to their race. And so Aryan descended people have to reject Rome in order to properly show race loyalty. He writes, quote, "The religious controversies of former times and the national wars of the most recent times are but the forerunners of a tremendous struggle among the races for global predominance. Already, we see everywhere the signs of this most enormous of all battles. Up here, the Mediterranean countries, Mongols and Negroes are getting ready for their joint fight against the Germanic race."

• 46:32Robert Evans?

  Now, in this upcoming fight, Rome is the leader of the alliance of, of inferior races and, quote, "The Germans' most embittered enemy." So he has turned this from like, no, no, everyone's loyalty should be to the race instead of the church, to the Roman Catholic Church is the head of this evil alliance of non-white people that's going to destroy, you know, the Nordic race, the Germans, you know, that, that's, that's, that's what he's selling.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  So rather than feeling solidarity with all of the people that were conquered by the Roman Empire, do you understand like?

• 47:06Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 47:07Speaker 02

  If you already using this myth-making.

• 47:09Robert Evans?

  Well, you know, that's interesting because he is, there is, there is a line from like this obsession with Germany fighting against the Romans and like the victory in Töteberg Forest and everything. And his hatred of the Roman Catholic Church, right? This is, there's a lot of, Germans have always been defined by their resistance. Rome has always been the enemy, right? One way or the other, that is very interesting, you know? But what we have at this point is this has gone from these guys being like nerds and cooking up their own fake version of medieval history and wanting to feel like, I'm descended from knights, I'm the reincarnation of this, you know, ancient noble 12th century knight,

• 47:49Robert Evans?

  to there's a race war brewing and the Catholic Church is going to lead it and we need to get, we need to convince our fellow Germans to reject Catholicism and worship this idea of the Aryan race, this new and, and, and return to these old pagan beliefs that again, we've largely created about Wotan and the fucking like, right? Like, that's what they're going for here. So List and Lahn's cross-promoted each other's ideas and organizations. And it's Liebenfels who first uses the swastika as a symbol of a far-right Aryan racist movement.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 48:23Robert Evans?

  When he creates the new Templar Code of Arms, he puts a swastika in it, right? And so all of, and this is, you know, 1906 or so we're at. Hitler is just a fucking bum in Vienna.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:38Robert Evans?

  And all of the pieces of Nazism has come together in these occult mystic organizations, right?

• 48:45Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 48:45Robert Evans?

  That Liebenfels and List, they are the ones who create the basis of it, right? This is where Hitler gets everything and it's where Himmler gets everything, right?

• 48:54Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 48:55Robert Evans?

  Obviously, there's some other guys, but they're all related to List and Liebenfels. You can draw a line between them. We've talked about, you know, Madame Blavatsky is a part of this, but List and Liebenfels are really, they're like the spiritual grandfathers of Nazism.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:10Robert Evans?

  Speaking of the spiritual grandfathers of Nazism, they would never buy the products and services that support this podcast.

• 49:18Speaker 02

  I was like, it might be the spiritual grandchildren.

• 49:21Robert Evans?

  Who's to say?

• 49:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:23Robert Evans?

  I'm to say, they're not buy these ads, products.

• 49:29Robert Evans?

  This ad is brought to you by ViiV Healthcare, the makers of Devoto Dolutigrevir Lamivudine. If you're living with HIV, do learn about Devoto. Devoto is a complete HIV treatment by prescription only for some people 12 and older. Your doctor will determine if Devoto is right for you. Most HIV pills contain three or four medicines. Devoto is as effective with just two. No other complete HIV pill contains fewer medicines than Devoto.

• 49:53Speaker 04

  It is unknown if Devoto is safe and effective if you have HIV and hepatitis B. If you have Hep B, don't stop Devoto without talking to your doctor as it may get worse or harder to treat. Don't take Devoto if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking Dofetilide due to serious or life-threatening side effects. If you have a rash or allergic reaction symptoms, stop Devoto and get medical help right away. Other serious or life-threatening side effects include severe liver problems and lactic acid buildup. If you're female or obese, you may be more at risk. Tell your doctor. Doctor about your medicines or supplements, medical conditions, liver or kidney problems, pregnancy, breastfeeding or planned pregnancy.

• 50:29Robert Evans?

  Do ask your doctor about fewer medicines. Visit devoto.com or call 1-877-844-8872. History's full of dirty players. Don't let your butt be one of them. You know what bastards and buttholes both have in common? They're full of [BLEEP]. But with Dude Wipes, your butt doesn't have to be. Don't let dry TP dictate your aftermath. Dude Wipes remove what toilet paper leaves behind. Dude Wipes are the perfect poop time partner in crime, at home or on the go. Flushable, plastic-free Dude Wipes are made with 99% water and plant-based ingredients. They're gentle enough for sensitive skin, but tough enough for messes of historical proportions. Unlike baby wipes, Dude Wipes are flushable and designed to begin breaking down when flushed. No battles here. They come in a range of at-home and travel-friendly formats:

• 51:14Robert Evans?

  individually wrapped singles, eight-count pocket packs, and 48-count big daddies. So the wipe can match the crime. Every time. Dude Wipes in a good World War II novel. Two bathroom musts when it comes to mustering up a great number two. So stop Stalin. Grab a pack of Dude Wipes and wipe the slate clean. Dude Wipes, best clean, pants down. Available at major retailers nationwide.

• 51:40Robert Evans?

  We're back. You can buy the ads too, you know?

• 51:43Speaker 02

  True, you can.

• 51:43Robert Evans?

  Advertisers on our podcast. Pay us money. We'll show whatever product you want.

• 51:47Speaker 02

  Gimme money.

• 51:49Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah. Speaking of which, you know, we've got an ad here from Jerry in Tallahassee, Florida, who sells the best cocaine in Florida. So yeah, go to Jerry if you're looking to get him some blow. You can create your own far-right Aryan racist movement.

• 52:07Speaker 02

  That's what I was gonna say.

• 52:08Robert Evans?

  All you need is cocaine.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  You might become a legendary psychologist.

• 52:12Robert Evans?

  Yeah, yeah. You might, or you might OD, because Jerry's cocaine is 100% fentanyl. Who's to say?

• 52:17Speaker 01

  Jesus Christ.

• 52:18Robert Evans?

  What? Sophie, this is what the ad said. Jerry paid us good money for this.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 52:24Robert Evans?

  $30.

• 52:26Robert Evans?

  So we're talking about Liston Lahn. They're cross promoting each other's ideas and organizations. Liebenfels uses is the first to use the swastika. And yeah, um, it's also, you know, as important as it is to know that this is where Nazism and the SS come from. This is their backstory and millions of people die, partly as a result of like these nerds geeking out over their fucking weird medieval obsession with the fucking Knights Templar and all this stuff. It's also important to know that there's a lot of silly stuff in these beliefs, a lot of stuff that's just ridiculous, that doesn't even tie into like what we know from the Nazis.

• 53:09Robert Evans?

  Like, there's a lot of just absolute nonsense here. And I want to quote from Hitler's Vienna again, quote, "In 1906, Lahn's most important work was published, Theozuology, or the news about the little Sodom monkeys and the God's electron. A member of his generation, which experienced electricity as an overwhelming phenomenon, Lahn ascribed to the Aryan gods electric powers and borrowed ideas from Karl von Rechenbach's theories on magnetism and the breath of life. The human brain, for example, was described as a breath accumulator. He corroborated his obscure ideas with biblical sources and arrived at conclusions such as Christ proven to have been an electric human being during the tertiary." Like, Jesus was made out of electricity!

• 53:54Speaker 02

  He's made out of electricity!

• 53:55Robert Evans?

  People are just, just because it's new and it's cool, right?

• 53:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was finna say, I mean, I get it. I get it. If you hit a switch and something lights up, like, you, it's definitely magic.

• 54:05Robert Evans?

  And this is all very silly. It's very, the fact that like the title of this book, Theozuology, or the news about the little Sodom monkeys and the God's electron. It's all just like wildly ridiculous.

• 54:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 54:17Robert Evans?

  But this is also tied directly to, this is a part of an ongoing trend that extends to the present day within fascism, which is fascism is always inextricably tied with futurism, right? In Italy, the first fascists to name themselves such worshipped airplanes and automobiles. As signs of modernity, right? That's a huge deal for early fascism is like this worship of speed, right? And fascism is an, you know, people think about like, and we've been talking about these guys who are obsessed with the Middle Ages, but they're also obsessed with new technology and fascism is an ideology for the future.

• 54:55Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 54:56Robert Evans?

  For people who embrace action for the sake of action and speed for the sake of speed. And Liebenfels is doing something similar here, right? This kind of electricity into it, right? You can and should draw a line from that, from what he's doing, from these Italian fascists who are in love with automobiles and race cars and stuff. To the embrace of AI aesthetics by the modern fascists.

• 55:18Speaker 02

  That's what I was gonna say.

• 55:20Robert Evans?

  Right?

• 55:20Speaker 02

  That's why my, like, I know everybody don't be watching this, but like y'all that are watching, that's why my face is looking like this. Cause I'm just like, oh shit, why it, oh my God.

• 55:31Robert Evans?

  You know, it's this, Liebenfels convinces himself that like Christ must have been like this being of electricity. Cause that's the sexy new technology and our modern fascists have convinced themselves that using AI, they're going to make a god out of.

• 55:44Speaker 02

  They're gonna make a god out of AI.

• 55:46Robert Evans?

  Exactly. Rule the future, you know? It's the, the fact that all these Silicon Valley founders have, have gotten in bed with fascism isn't a deviation from the norm. It's not weird. This is a return to the bad old days.

• 55:59Speaker 02

  They're so broke, dog, man.

• 56:03Speaker 02

  It's like, it's, I hate, you can't use extreme words, but just like every answer. Like every question we got already been answered. Like just, it's crazy that that's already, cause that was an open question to me. I was like, why y'all? What is the thing? Like, is this a hustle? Like, is there a? I don't see the play. Like with, with these tech bros, I was like, like truly, I was like, I don't see the play. Like what is the play? And now I see it.

• 56:30Robert Evans?

  It's, yeah. And a lot of this is rooted in this idea of if you're, if you're obsessed with modernity and these new ideas and new technologies, part of what you have to do is sweep away the old and democracy is old. The idea that people deserve rights is old. We don't have time for that, right? The future, like, you know, whatever it is we're doing with this new technology is more important than these, these archaic ideas of human rights.

• 56:59Speaker 02

  Yes. And that there has to be a great. You know, the great men theory like of history, like there has to be a great man that steps in a Christ like figure, if you will, to like make it happen.

• 57:10Robert Evans?

  Precisely.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 57:11Robert Evans?

  Now, Liebenfels, from this basis, formulates a view, a new view of morality that discards everything besides race, writing, quote, "Everything that is good for the superior race is moral and everything that is harmful, immoral," right? So ethics is based now entirely upon what is good for the Nordic race, for the Germanic race, right? These words are kind of interchangeable here.

• 57:38Speaker 02

  It's good, yeah.

• 57:39Robert Evans?

  And what brings us closer, it's again, it's like how a lot of these, we've talked about these different Silicon Valley cults, like the Zizians. Everything that's good for bringing about the birth of this benevolent, godlike AI.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  The singularity.

• 57:54Robert Evans?

  That's the only thing that determines good and evil, right? What you do to people is immaterial, as long as you're taking us closer to birthing this AI god, that's the only thing that matters.

• 58:06Speaker 02

  Bonkers.

• 58:07Robert Evans?

  Now, the ultimate logical conclusion of this kind of thinking is that other races cannot coexist in Germany, because if you let other races survive within, you know, this, this heartland of these Germanic, the Nordic peoples, the remaining Nordic peoples, race mixing will inevitably occur, right? And quote, "If they mingle with inferior races, then the divine in them will gradually disappear as well." And I've talked about how Tolkien is writing his stories, he's basing a lot of what he's writing on a lot of the same things these guys are, they're interested in the same myths. You know, Liebenfels is interested in the Arthurian myth, that's a big thing for Tolkien.

• 58:49Robert Evans?

  We've talked a lot about the Nibelungian cycle, right? Which Liebenfels and Liszt are both obsessed with, Himmler is obsessed with as a boy, that's one of the direct inspirations for the Lord of the Rings.

• 59:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:01Robert Evans?

  And the Nazis conceive of, and by the way, I'm not saying anything, Tolkien was not.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  In any way.

• 59:06Robert Evans?

  Not a Nazi in any way.

• 59:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:08Robert Evans?

  Hated the Nazis, specifically rejected their antisemitism. Obviously, he was a man of his time. There's some problematic stuff in there, but he was not a I don't think he was a bad person at all. The Nazis, though, do see the Nazi conception of the Aryans is a lot like how Tolkien conceives of the Men of Numenor, right? Which is, you know, Aragorn in the Lord of the Rings movies is supposed to be like 80 something, right?

• 59:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, they transcended something, yeah.

• 59:33Robert Evans?

  Yeah, that he comes from a superior type of human beings. Yeah. Who's, who had lived, you know, hundreds and hundreds of years and were much more powerful and just better. But over the thousands of years, the Men of Numenor are dying out, right?

• 59:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 59:49Robert Evans?

  What, what the Nazis are doing, they see the Aryans as like the Men of Numenor. And the goal of Nazi eugenics is not just eliminating non-Aryans, which is kind of what people think today is like, oh, they wanted to wipe out everyone who wasn't an Aryan. No, no, no, no. They wanted to wipe out the non-Aryans because those people were watering down Aryan blood.

• 1:00:10Speaker 02

  They turned to their god likeness.

• 1:00:12Robert Evans?

  Right. They were trying to breed Nordic people together to recreate this mythical super race, right? To bring back the Men of Numenor, so to speak.

• 1:00:21Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:00:22Robert Evans?

  This belief started with List and Liebenfels, the latter of whom wrote extensively about the need to, quote, "Refine and improve one's race through pure breeding, the only genuine and effective kind of repentance for the sin of intermingling." Now, List had prodded this issue, but Liebenfels makes it an obsession. In 1905, he launched a magazine, Ostara, which he described as the first and only publication dedicated to studying, quote, "heroic racism and men's rights." Direct quote.

• 1:00:53Speaker 02

  I hate it. Rights. Yeah, I feel like y'all, somebody, I feel like that's like them, them, uh, when bills get announced to, that the Congress is finna vote on.

• 1:01:04Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:04Speaker 02

  And then somebody just throws one at the end that ain't got nothing to do with what we about to vote on. And men's rights, like, wait.

• 1:01:10Robert Evans?

  And men's rights, sure.

• 1:01:11Speaker 02

  What? Like, why are we talking about that?

• 1:01:13Robert Evans?

  Well, let me explain why, because in the pages of Astara, Liebenfels extensively explored how concepts like the family, like what we call the nuclear family, and women's rights, which was still not, not much at that period of time, had to be reformed and curtailed in order to save the race. He advocated for the establishment of colonies in rural parts of Germany where, quote, "brood mothers" could be protected and isolated from inferior races and kept constantly pregnant by men with the blood of the Arminian in them.

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  Protect a pure white woman.

• 1:01:49Robert Evans?

  Right, and he's against, he's now increasingly against the idea of like marriage, right, because like the family, all of that limits how many Aryan kids you can pop out. He writes, quote, "We have protected our cattle against racial degeneration and contamination by way of cattle breeding tariffs, but we still render unprotected human beings to contamination and blood adulteration."

• 1:02:11Speaker 02

  God damn.

• 1:02:12Robert Evans?

  Yeah, right, right. We gotta treat our people more like we treat our cows, obviously.

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Man, it'd be so great if like while the middle of this, while this person is talking, you just pull out like the perfect, just like El Pastor taco and just be like, man, man, eat this, eat this, hold on, hold on, hold on. We need to keep the period.

• 1:02:29Robert Evans?

  Just try it. You've had, you've had literally nothing but sausage that's passed on us your whole life, try this, there's seasoning in it, you know?

• 1:02:37Speaker 02

  Yes, here, here, have this, here's a burrito. It's just, we just need to keep the race.

• 1:02:42Robert Evans?

  Motherfucker, this is called pad thai, eat it.

• 1:02:45Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes, here, here, try, bite this, it's called a noodle, try this.

• 1:02:48Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:49Robert Evans?

  Um, no, list, I don't, well, I don't know that that would have affected him, but he starts advocating, in addition to all, like because of all this, he starts advocating for polygamy to be legal, specifically for soldiers who have proved their racial worth in battle, right? That like, well, if, you know, a veteran comes back from the war, having proved himself to be a superior kind of man, he should be impregnating as many women as possible, right? And weak men should be stopped from breeding. In fact, we should sterilize the mentally ill and we should euthanize anyone that's unproductive, right? He is one of the first, again, there's Other people who have, he's not the only guy having these ideas, but he's one of the first people writing these in an influential publication.

• 1:03:30Robert Evans?

  And we don't know, because Hitler is a homeless bum in Vienna.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  Right now.

• 1:03:36Robert Evans?

  Living intermittently in like a men's hostel and like selling postcards, paint, his paintings as postcards, basically a lot of the time. Doing like sketches for money. It's theorized that he read Ostara. He all based, I mean, all of his biographers pretty much agree. He almost certainly came across issues of this. He read a good amount of it and he also would have read, people are, there's a lot of what's going around are like cheaply. Put together pamphlets and tracts that are being sold on the street, a lot of which are like plagiarizing Ostara too.

• 1:04:07Speaker 02

  Word.

• 1:04:08Robert Evans?

  So we don't know, we don't have like a list that he's on as a subscriber, but he is definitely reading this stuff. Cause he himself wrote that during this time, he came across countless hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages of like different sort of like writing on racial theory. And, uh, you know, the, the, like all of this, like Aryan race science and stuff. So he's, Hitler is actively reading this during the most like influenceable period of his life.

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  You know, I, I like, okay, so two thoughts here, just how much of these weird sweeping. Full like hitting the Alamo of just these like pithy ideas. Somehow or another come back to, oh, you just wanna fuck more girls.

• 1:04:53Robert Evans?

  Yeah, right?

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  Like how you doing all this just to be like, you just trying to, you just trying to smash more. You want a justification to smash whoever you want without any responsibility. And that's what you're trying to do, right? And, and of course there might be more to it, but I'm just so surprised how often it just, oh, you just want some girls.

• 1:05:12Robert Evans?

  Right, and you're, you're angry that they have a choice in the matter that like, yeah.

• 1:05:17Speaker 02

  That you, you, you show them who you are and they say, no, thank you. And then you think that was unjust.

• 1:05:24Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  And you're like, what do you mean it was? Yeah, so I think that, yeah.

• 1:05:29Robert Evans?

  It's the same, so much of it is that ego thing of like people not being able to take, being told no, just like, this is a bit different, but the fact that you can see with a lot of our, the most prominent, like, people like Elon Musk and Marc Andreessen of these fascist ideologues we're dealing with today, the root of why they started making this far-right turn is they got on social media and people made fun of them.

• 1:05:53Speaker 02

  People dragged them.

• 1:05:55Robert Evans?

  Yeah, when they would have a bad take, they would get mocked. And, you know, most of us, that happens to us, you know, periodically, like, someone will be a dick to you online, and you just be like, yeah, you know, that happens. But these guys, their whole life outside of this, no one's ever talked shit to them, no one's ever been mean to them, like, their whole world on a daily basis is people agreeing with them, like, reflexively, and the fact that that doesn't happen online kills them.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:06:24Robert Evans?

  This is also a big factor in Himmler's childhood, or not childhood, but like, early adulthood, Ostara is one of the magazines he is reading, you know? When, or as a kid, like, he gets access to this, and he gets access, more to the point, when he's an adult, Ostara is, I think, out of publication most of that time, but people are cribbing from it and plagiarizing it and rewriting it, right? Like, this is, it's like an ur text of the Bolshevist movement and all this stuff, you know? So, List and Liebenfels are really the core of the ideology that obsesses both Hitler and Himmler. Hitler is primarily going to be focused on building the, like, rebuilding the Aryan

• 1:07:08Robert Evans?

  race and, you know, finding living space, which is another thing. Liebenfels writes a lot about the need for living space, the need for expansion for Germany, for Germans to have more space to colonize, to, you know, breed. So Hitler takes a lot of that. Himmler also takes a lot of the magic stuff, right? Like, a lot more of it than Hitler does.

• 1:07:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:29Robert Evans?

  So when World War I rolls around, both List and Liebenfels are really bullish on the war, right? Because it's going to lead to the, Germany's gonna conquer a bunch of land. Obviously, and then we'll have the space that we need, you know, we'll defeat our racial enemies. But the war doesn't go as well as they'd hoped. And the privations of the war years forces a star to stop publishing because paper gets very expensive. Guido von List probably dies partially as a result of the food shortages in the war. He dies like right after it ends. He's kind of old, but the fact that like he had been starving like everyone else probably contributes to his ill health.

• 1:08:11Robert Evans?

  During the war years, Liebenfels refines his theozuology beliefs that he'd written that book about, about like electric Jesus and everything.

• 1:08:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:20Robert Evans?

  And he comes to the conclusion that like theozuology, kind of a shitty name, like I gotta, I gotta rework this. And by the time the war ends and the Weimar Republic comes into being, he has smoothed all of this out and come up with a new name for his belief system. Ariosophy or Aryan mysticism, right? And he is, this is, he's very like consciously aping Helena Blavatsky's theosophy, right? Like that's, that's part of what's going on here. We've talked about this in our episodes on her. But yeah, Ariosophy is Aryan mysticism, and that is what Liebenfels is kind of selling. Once the war ends and once Heinrich Himmler starts really getting into this stuff, when he has his, his sick period where he's reading everything he can get his hands on.

• 1:09:04Robert Evans?

  Ariosophy, like that's how he comes into the ideas of List and Liebenfels in a big way.

• 1:09:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:10Robert Evans?

  And it's here we return to Heinrich Himmler. Bill Yen, in his book Hitler's Master of the Dark Arts, describes young Himmler and his school days as having a passing familiarity with Guido von List. He had some involvement in a volkish group molded by List's and Liebenfels's theories. The Thule Society, which added to the growing corpus of Aryan fantasy, the idea that the ancient homeland of the Aryans was an isolated Nordic island or continent in the Arctic. Named Ultima Thule. And I'm saying Thule, that's how it's pronounced, but it's spelled Thule, T H U L E.

• 1:09:43Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:09:44Robert Evans?

  Himmler would have become familiar with a German new ageer named Adam Glower through his interest in the Thule Society. Glower was a disciple of List and Liebenfels, so much so that he actually changed his name and gave himself a von, going by Rudolf von Sabotendorf. We know Himmler was familiar with Sabotendorf because one of the Freikorps units he joined in 1919 was founded and run by Sabotendorf. Another prominent Thule Society member was Dietrich Eckert, an Ariosophist who founded a political party, the German Workers' Party. Now, all of this background is necessary to understand why Himmler did the things that he did once he took over the SS in 1929. He was well familiar with the secret societies that List and Liebenfels had created. Thanks to their example, the

• 1:10:27Robert Evans?

  far-right was rife with such societies, including the Thule Society. Himmler deliberately sought to make the SS something similar, but also something beyond what any of those men had ever dreamed. A state within a state. Like Liebenfels, he used the Knights Templar, or at least his mental image of them, as a model. His goal was to breed a new nobility, using the theories of Liebenfels as a guide.

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 1:10:49Robert Evans?

  And that's where we're going to end for today.

• 1:10:53Speaker 02

  We still ain't done with this, man. Okay.

• 1:10:55Robert Evans?

  I know, I know. There's a lot to get through. You really want to understand why all of this happens the way it does. Why Nazism becomes what it is, why Himmler does what he does with the, as leader of the SS. You need all of this history. There's so much to get through, to really-

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  Are we, are we even at the Third Reich?

• 1:11:15Robert Evans?

  No, no, no.

• 1:11:16Speaker 02

  We're not even at World War II, bro.

• 1:11:18Robert Evans?

  This is, this is, we're in 1929. Right. We're in 1929.

• 1:11:22Speaker 01

  I'm so tired.

• 1:11:23Robert Evans?

  Hitler's a few years away from power. We're getting close to the Nazis being in power, but like, no, this is, this is-

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  We're at the moment where the party that Hitler joins just started. That's cool. That's where we get.

• 1:11:37Robert Evans?

  We finally, we'll be, because we've gotten to Himmler taking over the SS. It's 1929. So we're about, where I just had to, I debated between just starting with all of the pre-history and then in episode like three, getting to Himmler. And I felt like we should explain Himmler's background and then kind of, anyway, th- these are the choices I made. I thought this was the best way to do it. We'll see.

• 1:11:57Speaker 02

  Nah, it's great.

• 1:11:57Robert Evans?

  If it's helpful to everyone, but yeah. So we're going to, in this episode, it's 1929. Himmler has succeeded in rebuilding the SS up to like a thousand men. And he has this dream of turning it into a knightly order that is the new racial elite of Europe. And in the next episodes, we're going to see how he goes about doing that and how it plays into the greatest, some of the greatest crimes against humanity ever committed. But first, you know, it's not a crime against humanity is props podcast hood politics.

• 1:12:32Speaker 02

  Yes, and my cold brew.

• 1:12:34Robert Evans?

  And your cold brew, also not a crime against humanity.

• 1:12:36Speaker 02

  Not a crime against humanity. Yeah, hood politics with prop, we're cooking, we're making, we're talking, we're kiki-ing all the words. It's in the, your same podcast feeds. It's also on YouTube, just like this feed. Terraform cold brew's back. There's links all in all the things. And I'm just deeply troubled with.

• 1:13:02Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  All the things I'm learning right now. Things for which you thought you knew. Like you think you know what, you think you understand the Nazis in World War II and then you learn something else and you're just like, oh, word.

• 1:13:15Robert Evans?

  Yeah. No, no, it's, it's, I mean, again, it's one of those things when I try to tell people, oh, you're wrong about the Nazis. They interpret it as like, oh, you're trying to explain that they're not as bad or whatever. It's like, no, no, no, I just want you to understand what they really were.

• 1:13:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:29Robert Evans?

  Right? They're, they're as bad, if not much worse than you think they are. But they are different than you think they are. You don't full, like, most people, you don't fully understand like what the Nazis believed. And maybe you don't necessarily, you don't. Need to to know that they were evil, right?

• 1:13:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:47Robert Evans?

  The Holocaust is enough.

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got the big, yeah, I got the big themes here.

• 1:13:51Robert Evans?

  Learning all of this stuff, it does help you understand stuff like, oh, it's not weird that all these Silicon Valley oligarchs are getting involved in all this weird. It's not weird that these, these guys like Elon Musk and all are, are, and Peter Thiel are obsessed with like birth rates and, you know, like the, the, the white race being bred to extinction and, you know, wanting to like, like all of these interests that they have, none of this is new. All of this has happened before and all of it makes complete sense. It's not, it's not at all surprising that they're doing the same thing again, you know?

• 1:14:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's the, it's the learning of this to me is like, it's the how and the why. Cause that's always the question is like, how y'all fall into this? Like, how did y'all let this slide? You know, why like, you know, rather than just the idea of like, well, yeah, well, they were monsters. It's like, well, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, understand this, you know what I mean?

• 1:14:45Robert Evans?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:47Robert Evans?

  And understand that like this is their, the only thing they're interested in because they don't have anything else. These people are nothing. They're complete failures.

• 1:14:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:56Robert Evans?

  Outside of this ideology they've created to make themselves important, right?

• 1:15:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:01Robert Evans?

  The people like Himmler and then at the top, the people, these like oligarchs, the guys who have the money, the guys like Schonauer, who are funding guys like Liebenfels.

• 1:15:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:09Robert Evans?

  They do have money. They do have power and they want to keep it. And they see, I want to build, I want to use my money to, to like build this ideological scaffolding that justifies me always being in power, right?

• 1:15:24Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, that's it. The, the preserving of your way of life, not even in the, in the Nazi way. I'm saying in the money way, like I want to be able to, I need the, I need the line to keep going up. And this is a way to secure that.

• 1:15:39Robert Evans?

  Yep, yep. Anyway, that's the episode, everybody. Have a good week.

• 1:15:46Speaker 02

  Bye.

• 1:15:51Speaker 01

  Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel, youtube.com/AtBehindTheBastards.

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• 1:17:18Speaker 06

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• 1:17:49Speaker 07

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• 1:18:18Speaker 03

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.