Growth Genius Leaks Million Dollar SEO Plan

Join me as I chat with Jacky Chou, a serial entrepreneur, as we dive deep into growth hacking opportunities. Jacky shares his strategies and frameworks for how to growth hack businesses using SEO and keyword research. Timestamps 00:00 Intro 01:46 Most AI companies are leaving money on the table 11:04 Paid Ads for InteriorAI 15:04 Jacky's million dollar SEO plan with Reddit 21:13 Other Neglected Platforms to beat VC-funded startups 24:57 Startup Idea 1: NSFW AI O. F. 35:31 Community Building in 2024 1) Most AI companies are leaving money on the table Case study: InteriorAI (by Pieter Levels) - Missing out on ~50K/month - Could monetize through affiliate content - Should create blog targeting high-value keywords - Opportunity for "retail rank & rent" ($1-2K/month per placement) 2) Jacky's million dollar SEO plan with Reddit: - Find keywords where Reddit ranks #2 (tons right now!) - Share your product as a "user" (no links!) - Target all related long-tail keywords - Look at AI-related terms (massive growth) - Replicate across Quora, Medium, LinkedIn 3) Keyword Research Gold: "AI video generator" trends: - Search volume is exploding - Reddit ranking #2 consistently - CBC around $1.50 - Huge opportunity for indie hackers - Most big players ignoring UGC platforms 4) Dark Horse Opportunity: Adult AI Market - Extremely low keyword difficulty (KD: 2) - High search volume - Most competitors doing poor execution - AI chat + OF management tools needed - Mid 6-7 figures/month potential (Not for everyone, but opportunity exists) 5) Community Building in 2024: - @JackieChou hitting $80K/month - Built from 15K YouTube subs - Key: Sell transformation, not just community - Focus on membership benefits - Bundle partnerships/tools Key Takeaway: To win in 2024: Do what VC-funded startups won't: - Target neglected platforms - Create authentic content - Build real communities - Ignore "brand concerns" early - Focus on actual user value Want more free ideas? I collect the best ideas from the pod and give them to you for free in a database. Most of them cost $0 to start (my fav) Get access: https://www.gregisenberg.com/30startupideas LCA helps Fortune 500s and fast-growing startups build their future - from Warner Music to Fortnite to Dropbox. We turn 'what if' into reality with AI, apps, and next-gen products https://latecheckout.agency/ BoringAds — ads agency that will build you profitable ad campaigns http://boringads.com/ BoringMarketing — SEO agency and tools to get your organic customers http://boringmarketing.com/ Startup Empire - a membership for builders who want to build cash-flowing businesses https://www.startupempire.co FIND ME ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/gregisenberg Instagram: https://instagram.com/gregisenberg/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gisenberg/ FIND JACKY ON SOCIAL X/Twitter: https://x.com/indexsy LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacky-chou/ Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@indexsy/videos Advise: https://advise.so/apply/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Greg Isenberg?

  Hell yeah. Jackie is on the pod. I'm so happy. He comments on this YouTube channel, but he's never been a guest. He's an SEO savant. The guy knows how to grow. He's wearing green for growing. I'm wearing green because you know.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 0:19Greg Isenberg?

  Right? Let's go. He's Canadian. I'm Canadian. There's, there's a lot going on. Jackie, what are we talking about on the pod today?

• 0:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've got a ton of stuff for you. Um, I got stuff like how most AI companies are leaving money on the table, shouting out Pieter Levels for, you know, not monetizing properly. We got how to research and market your AI company for free. On like stuff like Reddit, doing stuff that won't scale, not safe for work, AI OnlyFans, adult niche stuff, which I'm heavy into right now. Might not be, you know, everyone's cup of tea, but a lot of money in there. And we can touch on, I don't know if you guys care about this, but like how we were growing our paid community. And we just were about to hit 80K this month and it's insane. So we can talk about that if you want, but I'll let you drive Greg.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  Where do you want to go?

• 1:34Greg Isenberg?

  Let's, let's go. Let's, let's, we've got around 45 minutes. I actually want to hit on every single one of those topics. So let's start with number one.

• 1:43Speaker 01

  Okay, okay, okay. Um, so I got how AI companies leaving money on the table. My example is interiorai.com by Pieter Levels. Sorry, Peter, I love you. We talked about this in the past, but it's about 50K a month that he's leaving on the table based on my calculations, based off of my, what I did with my own companies. And it involves a lot of affiliate and I don't know how, how you want to go, go through this. I got some, I don't know. Where documents open.

• 2:17Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, let's just, you mind sharing your screen and we can?

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Sure thing. Let's do it. So, um, interiorai.com.

• 2:25Speaker 01

  DR 58, which means unbelievably strong domain. Um, I think what he's got here is, well, DR 60 now. Um, not much traffic, not much organic traffic. So what I believe he needs to do is he needs to create like a blog section on the site and just create affiliate content for it. Minimum 10K a month, easy. Uh, I did that with Far and Away, my own DDC brand. Um, with a bunch of AI content. It obviously, it got absolutely trashed by Google because it was AI content.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  But I think what Peter should do is probably approach like, like a true editorial, uh, come from a true editorial standpoint. Uh, we ranked for keywords like best knitting machine. I don't know, he could probably go for best recliners, um, reclining sofa, et cetera, et cetera. And we were able to generate something like 11K right before we got hit by Google. So, and this excludes, you know, display ads, so on and so forth. Display ads, we're doing like, I think 10K also in February. So in total, we were doing only 20K a month, but that was with a DR,

• 3:50Speaker 01

  DR 38. So with a DR 60, I can probably safely say you could do up to 15K a month in affiliate commissions easily. And there's tons more idea, like if you create a directory like Yelp for interior designers, easily rank best interior designers in LA. That is ripe for the taking right now. Um, it would be insane if he, if he doesn't target it. It'd be almost irresponsible if he doesn't target it, if that makes sense. And, um,

• 4:24Speaker 01

  On top of that, what I used to do is if we ranked for keywords such as best knitting machines, we'd reach out to Amazon suppliers, pitch them, "Hey, Addy, if you want to be number one on this list, you'd have to pay a flat fee of, I don't know, 1 to 2K a month." And that's actually the majority of where our money is made. We call it, I call it retail rank and rent for affiliate content. Keywords such as like best office chairs and reach out to Herman Miller, make them pay you X amount a month. This, you can easily get up to 20, 30K a month just from ads, just running these product placements.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  It's, disclosure is required based off of FTC rules, but it's an easy asterisk, I think. And I think not many companies are utilizing this. Most AI companies are not. If you're just a typical B2B AI, B2B SaaS company, you can go after keywords that like Zapier goes after. I think I have one as an example. Keywords such as best website builders, Zapier ranks for. It's insane. A keyword such as best website builder typically draws in anywhere from 25 to 50K a month.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  So this is just how several software sites that I know of are not utilizing it. But Zapier does a pretty good job. You could probably just imitate them and just copy it, in my opinion.

• 6:03Greg Isenberg?

  So go back to the document for a sec. Why isn't Pieter Levels doing this?

• 6:14Speaker 01

  Well, I did, I did slide into his DMs and talked to him about it. He saw it more as spammy, but I think you could approach it in like a real way. You know, hire interior designer, write about these, I don't know, high-ticket.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Affiliate content niches such as like larger pieces. I don't know, best infrared sauna, best, I don't know, sofas, leather sofas, stuff like that, and handwritten, don't maybe use AI assisted human edited type of stuff. You don't really have to go pure AI spam because then your chart will look like this, you know?

• 6:57Speaker 01

  Feels bad, man, but you know what? It was only this, my domain was only hit on a subdirectory. Hence why I suggested that you put it into guides instead. So Google will just hit the guide subdirectory and not your whole domain. Because this business is still operational far and away. And it does like significant revenue every month. So, yeah.

• 7:22Greg Isenberg?

  So, did you see my little kerfuffle with Pieter Levels the other day?

• 7:26Speaker 01

  No, I didn't. What happened?

• 7:28Greg Isenberg?

  So, and I preface it with I love Pieter Levels, like he's on my Mount Rushmore of entrepreneurs. So I saw he tweeted, let me pull it up. I'll share my screen real quick. This is what, this is what went down because I'm curious your thoughts on it. Quick ad break. Let me tell you about a business I invested in. It's called boringmarketing.com. So a few years ago, I met this group of people that were some of the best SEO experts in the world. They were behind getting some of the biggest companies found on Google. The secret sauce is they've got a set of technology and AI that could help you outrank your competition. So for my own businesses, I wanted that.

• 8:14Greg Isenberg?

  I didn't want to have to rely on Mark Zuckerberg. I didn't want to depend on ads to drive customers to my businesses. I wanted to rank high in Google. That's why I like SEO and that's why I use boringmarketing.com. And that's why I invested in it. They're so confident in their approach that they offer a 30 day sprint with 100% money back guarantee. Who does that nowadays? So check it out. Highly recommend boringmarketing.com.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Hit me.

• 8:40Greg Isenberg?

  Can you see my screen?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's kind of small, but I'll expand it.

• 8:45Greg Isenberg?

  I'll zoom in for y'all. So I saw this tweet.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Oh, no paid.

• 8:52Greg Isenberg?

  About.

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Paid, right?

• 8:53Greg Isenberg?

  No paid.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  I saw that.

• 8:56Greg Isenberg?

  No paid. So he goes, my mega hat, so he created this hat, make your upgrade again, has got, is going viral everywhere now, getting lots of clones, but I'm ranking so number one. So that's really nice. First physical product I made, it's going really viral. He's selling one hat per hour, $840 a day. He's super stoked. And then some, this guy Alfred Simon says, why don't you create a Google account and start bidding on it? Simple search ads targeting the same keywords to shopping campaign to get more exposure. If you own, others will do it. Some already do. And he showed a screenshot of it because there's someone on Etsy who's basically copying it. So Pieter Levels goes, ads never work for me. I'm 100% organic guy.

• 9:40Greg Isenberg?

  And then my take on it is like, I don't, I just don't understand the, I'm 100% organic. Ads don't work for me point of view. So he goes, I always try, but it never work. I just spend lots of money and it doesn't result in sales. I think my apps might be too organic in nature to ever work with an ad source audience. I also hate ads myself and have you block origin and one block. So that might explain the mismatch. What do you think?

• 10:08Speaker 01

  I think it's different for consumer and maybe SaaS products. SaaS keywords are super hard to make it work. And I think as an indie hacker, I kind of might even agree with him. But in this scenario, exactly with the make your upgrade again, he definitely has to run ads. It's a no brainer, but I actually think there is a place for testing paid ads for even B2B space, even despite it being very expensive. Cause then I think historically what we've done is we would run ads on a target keyword and we would see the conversions on that. And after, if it's pretty good, if it's a pretty good keyword, then we were targeted in SEO.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  If that makes sense. Yeah, it's like a why not type of thing. You don't have to spend too much, you know? As long as it's the data is significant, I think we're A okay to proceed, you know? That's all you have to do.

• 11:05Greg Isenberg?

  If you were Pieter Levels.

• 11:09Greg Isenberg?

  How would you think about doing paid marketing for interior AI, let's say, like, and how much money you think is on the table, honestly, in paid ads?

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Paid ads for his subscription model or just?

• 11:22Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 11:23Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  I mean, if you just throw interior AI into the,

• 11:29Speaker 01

  into Ahrefs, you could probably take a look on, I'll share my screen again. Yeah. So if you just take a look at his keywords, AI interior design, yeah, it's pretty cheap, honestly, 0.78. And one mistake I think a lot of SaaS companies face is they would run paid ads directly into their homepage. You need a dedicated landing page because ranking on Google is different than like a super CRO page, you know, you gotta have something hella converting, like a squeeze page on for, for everything paid. But his keywords, these CBCs are completely fine. I think anything under a dollar,

• 12:15Speaker 01

  especially like in the 29 cents, it's a, it's a just try it type of thing. Interiorai.com/lander, you know, it's just a squeeze page, get an email in there, get a free trial in there. Yeah. No brainer, I think.

• 12:30Greg Isenberg?

  No brainer.

• 12:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:31Greg Isenberg?

  Also, if I was him, I would do some creator stuff, like get a couple dozen creators, pay them, you know, 500, a thousand bucks a month to create,

• 12:47Greg Isenberg?

  you know, sort of like Tik, yeah, like TikTok shop type content, right? Like interior AI is such a, it's such a viral concept. It's so cool and interesting that I think it would fly on, on platforms like IG reels and, and TikTok. So I think, you know, getting some of those to do, some of those people to do videos and then reusing those videos as ads to me makes sense.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think. Well, this came organic. So what happened was someone did create a TikTok. And it went viral and he got a ton of signups. From that, but he just kind of just. Took it and then didn't try replicate it. I think that's why he's got a very organic mindset. Honestly, I do too. Like why spend money when you? Can hopefully get it for free, but I think you can, you know, put your thumb on the scale and probably. Push people towards a, you know, that virality direction at least. Once in a while, yeah.

• 13:46Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah. When I, whenever I see a organic piece of content generating a lot of sales. To me, it's not like. It, it, it, my first reaction is. Okay, how can I reuse this piece of content and put paid spend behind it?

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, cuz.

• 14:05Greg Isenberg?

  Cuz you validated it.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like the ultimate. Probably meta or TikTok ad you can run. You could just. Run, literally just boost that probably and it'll convert.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, why not? Why not? I think. His, his interior AI.com does. I think thirty, forty K a month. Put five K of that into budget. Test it out, but then again, he has a lot of other things going on. That's probably why he.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Doesn't manage to do all these things. If it's like just one thing, I'm sure. Then we can give him a bit more flack for not. Focusing on it, you know?

• 14:47Greg Isenberg?

  Totally.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:50Greg Isenberg?

  All right. Anything else on interior AI before we move on?

• 14:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think besides the affiliate stuff. And paid ads. Those are pretty big ones, but um. That's it. That's it.

• 15:04Greg Isenberg?

  All right, let's move on to the next topic.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  All right, researching and marketing your AI company for free. It's a super easy Ahrefs search. I'll just share my screen and just, we can take it from there.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  Keyword Explorer. Alright, here we go. So, all I did was I went to Ahrefs Keyword Explorer. You can do this in Semrush, you can do this in other free tools. All I did was type in best AI and let the tool do the rest. And what we're looking for is, A, if you already have your own app, then I would find the keyword that best relates to your app. If you're still in the research phases, I would, they have this nice neat little graph that shows like where it's heading. So you want something that's, you know, exponential, something juicy like this AI video generator. That's probably something you could target. However, most people will think, hey, Jackie, what are you talking about?

• 16:03Speaker 01

  This is so competitive. How am I going to create something like this, you know?

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Well, I think Pieter Levels has, has been working on AI video generator. I'm sure anyone can plug and play nowadays. It's so easy to generate. Did you do an episode on it too? Like an AI video generator?

• 16:23Greg Isenberg?

  Um, I've, I've talked about AI video generators, not a few times, not, not a full episode on it, but it's, I have, I have talked about it and it's totally doable.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So something more of like grindy you can do is if you notice the front page of this keyword, it is all super competitive domains like Zapier. You're not, you're not going to outrank Zapier and nor are you going to be able to pay them off and rank number one. But if you see number two, we got Reddit there. That's where we come in. And if you click in here,

• 17:04Speaker 01

  you'll notice you can share your thoughts and that's exactly what everyone should be doing. Alright.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  You should be sharing your app in Reddit. However, you have to be commenting from a third, like third person point of view. You comment whatever, it's like, hey, I actually used, I don't know.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  Indexes of free AI video generator. Check it out and do not, whatever you do, do not link to it. Cause link automatically flags stuff on Reddit and then you can get your account clapped. So all I recommend you do is, you know, just a text, text, comment, no links. Comment your branded keyword. And next up is you can either ask your friends to give it upvotes. Or there's a ton of upvote services out there. I'll vote it rinse and repeat. Do this across all the keywords that are relevant here.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  That is relevant to AI video generators, all the long tails. And just reap the benefits. Why you know this works is if you search for any VPN keyword, you'll notice the top comments are always NordVPN. These guys are already dominated. So all you have to do is replicate what NordVPN is doing in the AI niche. Because no one is doing it in the AI niche for some reason. It is so easy and you're able to beat out Zapier, Synthasia, even YouTube in the search engines. Like where else can you manipulate Reddit comments?

• 18:51Speaker 01

  And just like get free traffic nowadays. It's probably only short form content or Reddit. That's how you can beat the big guys with, you know, VC budget. But this is, this is, this does not scale at all. But you can get your first 50 or 100 users from it.

• 19:10Greg Isenberg?

  For sure. And I think the other thing about, I mean, we can go into this, but like the keyword volume on all these on AI stuff is like up and to the right. So yeah, look at it's huge. It's only going to get more.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Yes, sir. And yeah, I think another one I found was AI voice generator. Holy cow. And it's number two is always Reddit. I don't know why Google is prioritizing Reddit so, so hard right now. Cause it's so easily manipulated. I know, cause we have to do it, but um, yeah, it's insane. And if you just want, if you don't even want to develop an app like this, all you have to do is join an affiliate program of another.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  AI app and then just promote theirs there. It's that easy.

• 19:59Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, and a lot of these programs pay anywhere between twenty to fifty percent MRR, which is insane. Yeah.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  For a couple comments and a couple friends voting you on Reddit? Why not?

• 20:15Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah. Share your thoughts, guys. Share your thoughts.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that one's kind of crazy. That one's kind of crazy. And it's the only way, I think nowadays, for you to beat out these VC-funded companies because they're probably bidding on these keywords on Google. And look at the CPC, one point five.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  Uh, do, do, do, where is this one? One point two? So that is actually pretty expensive compared to, you know, earlier, our example with Pieter Levels Interior AI, which is at like twenty to seventy cents. These are insane keywords because they have best in the keyword. So it's higher buyer intent typically, but yeah, now you can get, capture a bunch of volume just from Reddit, just from Reddit comments. Golden age right now. Like, imagine getting free traffic, free, high buyer intent traffic from Reddit. Yeah, bonkers.

• 21:14Greg Isenberg?

  What are other, while we're in Ahrefs, like, what are other ideas you have around beating VC-funded startups? So it's just, you know, it's getting, you know, you have these A16Zs of the world that have more and more capital. Some of these startups getting more and more funded. You know, you're, you're a man of the people. You really are. How do you use tools like Ahrefs to to arm you to, to, to beat the big guys?

• 21:45Speaker 01

  Hmm, I think typically what I do is, let's say you have an AI detector. You just open up this, like, search results. And find stuff you can replicate like, I don't know, like find stuff that they don't have full control of in the search engines like Reddit, stuff that's like UGC. And even if you're, even if this subreddit doesn't allow comments, it shows that Google is prioritizing Reddit in search engines and then you can replicate that in other industries. There are other search results that don't show Reddit. So it'll show Quora instead, and then that's when you attack Quora.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  There are search, certain, certain search results that show LinkedIn Pulse, Medium, all these like free UGC kind of stuff, um, kind of grindy, but uh, yeah. I think you just have to find these small little,

• 22:43Speaker 01

  I don't know how to, small little hacks that A16Z funded companies aren't going to touch because they probably think it's not on brand. They already have like a, I don't know, head of brand on their team and they're like, yo, this is not a brand. You can't, you can't, you can't be out here doing this. But you know, as an indie hacker, solo entrepreneur, you can, you can, you can get after it there. So you have to do things they're not willing to do and that's probably like, looks bad. Like the optics aren't great. That's pretty much what I do.

• 23:14Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, I mean, even, e- even Pieter Levels, like you talked about, like, one of the reasons why he didn't want to, to create that SEO content is he, he was feeling like, i- i- it didn't align with his brand, basically.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, but if to get ahead, you just have to ignore the brand signals, I guess, to start. And then once, once you get up to the six-figure MRR, then you can revisit that, you know? And then, yeah, why not?

• 23:42Greg Isenberg?

  Also, it's like, do things, you know, what I'm against is things that don't give value to the user, but if, as long as you're creating value to the user, like for example, the guides that you're talking about, or even sharing your thoughts on Reddit. Um, as long as you're giving value to whoever's consuming the content.

• 24:03Greg Isenberg?

  Fair game.

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Hmm hmm. Yeah.

• 24:08Speaker 01

  I'm shocked that more people aren't doing this because if you go into these subreddits.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Number one is like, like, let me share the tab.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  Like they're recommending stuff and using URLs, sure, but it's just not great, you know, it's ripe for the taking. I'm surprised no one has spammed this yet. There's guys, you dropped the ball here. What's going on? You know what I mean? I mean, it's just shocking. I think it's at this point is irresponsible of them to do that.

• 24:44Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah. A hundred percent agreed. I mean, a hundred percent agreed. By the, by the time this is published, this, this, this community is, is going to get after it. So thank you for sharing that gem.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  Of course, of course. And this actually leads well, actually, let me share my screen. This leads well into the next topic that I wanted to talk about.

• 25:03Greg Isenberg?

  Shh, don't tell anyone, but I've got 30 plus startup ideas that could make you millions and I'm giving them away for free. These aren't just random guesses. They're validated concepts from entrepreneurs who've built a hundred million dollars plus businesses. I've compiled them into a one simple database compiled from hundreds of conversations I've had on my podcast. But the main thing is, most of these ideas don't need a single investor. Some cost nothing to start. I'm pretty much handing you a cheat sheet. The idea bank is your startup shortcut.

• 25:47Greg Isenberg?

  Just click below to get access. Your next cash flowing business is waiting for you.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  Is the not safer work. Look at this search volume, but most importantly, look at that KD, keyword difficulty. This is why I believe more people should be in it right now because people, there's like some sort of taboo thing going on. People don't really want to touch not safer work porn, adult industry. It is popping off. I firsthand experience. It is horrifying what's going on. I'm I'm shocked when my fiance leans over and looks at my screen. I just have to say this for research purposes only. You know what I mean? It is, it it gets crazy. It gets crazy right now. So I think a couple of ideas I had was the AI OnlyFans. We got

• 26:40Speaker 01

  not safe for work, AI girlfriends as well. Some of these companies are doing an obscene amount of money. That is

• 26:48Speaker 01

  shocking. I mean, even to me, and I'm in the industry. So I don't know if you've worked in this industry before, but did you know, like, majority of AI, uh, sorry, the OnlyFans revenue from creators right now isn't from this description? It's always from the upsell in the backend. And it's always from

• 27:07Greg Isenberg?

  What's the upsell?

• 27:08Speaker 01

  The upsell is

• 27:08Greg Isenberg?

  Or chatting?

• 27:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like chats, private, private parts rate rating. So people pay to get their private parts rated out of ten, custom photos, just chatting for, you know, custom photos, some videos, so on and so forth. And most of the time, you're just chatting with a VA in another part of the world. You're not even talking to the creator. But these like, unfortunately, lonely men or women are, they're none the wiser. So idea was

• 27:47Speaker 01

  creating an AI chat that pushes people down the funnel to the eventual VA that comes in as an upsell, like a closer, so to speak. Um, there are some already out there, but this is something that is will be target, it's more like B to B space, because then this app would have to target OF agencies, so on and so forth, but not, it's really bad out there, the the the software. So I'm sure you can have some sort of AI agent and then just push people down the funnel and then eventually have a human in at the under end close people on private parts ratings.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Another idea I had was, you know, AI-generated OF custom videos and photos. Cause right now they're just, they have a bank of photos and videos. And when people request it, they would just send one for like 10 bucks. You know what I mean? And then the VA would get a commission based off of that.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  But yeah, there's, there's a lot of, I think, use cases for AI in this space right now. Cause some of the, some of the numbers I'm seeing is obscene and

• 28:58Speaker 01

  surprising to me, cause I, I, yeah, it's not something I dabbled in growing up, you know?

• 29:06Greg Isenberg?

  Didn't you, don't you have some sort of OnlyFans revenue?

• 29:11Speaker 01

  I do, I do, but that's, um, so what I do is I push OF traffic from organic sources. And then I just get paid like per click, but it's not like, I'm not doing management or nor am I doing software or. Yeah, but I think massive opportunity here. I don't know, cause I don't know any of the tech side, but I thought your audience might, you know?

• 29:34Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, yeah, this audience, I mean, there's gonna be some people who listen to this and be like, you know, I don't want to do that space and I totally understand that. To be honest, personally, I, I wouldn't want to do it. And there's also going to be someone who's gonna listen to this and be like, wow, this is a huge opportunity. I'm, I, I want to create something in the space that's super high quality and, and I want to make millions of dollars doing it. And they're gonna do it.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta do things other people aren't willing to do. That's the, uh, theme of the episode, I think. But this, this space is ripe, ripe for the taking.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  The example with the keyword difficulty earlier, like the AI not safe for work.

• 30:21Greg Isenberg?

  That's a gift, that's a gift. When you see, when you see something like that, I mean, I, I don't often see that.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, with that search volume and keyword difficulty, insane, no? Two, two, two is like, how do, that's, that, two would be equivalent to like can dogs eat lettuce type of keyword. Difficulty like it's yeah like ridiculous so easily get get out there but then not safe for work is kind of if he in rankings with Google but if you just do it right I think it's okay I think it's okay cuz

• 31:02Speaker 01

  the reason why it's so low actually let's take a look at the search results actually is probably because Zapier when targeted see yeah

• 31:11Speaker 01

  you know the the high competition like the high authority domains aren't targeting it well we'll get into like you know the not safe for work domains look at this holy cow DR eight guys DR eight you can get tomorrow what is going on here yeah yeah this is um

• 31:35Speaker 01

  you guys go out and go out and create something like this I don't know if if that's like that's something you guys are willing to do I think this is a massive industry that I don't think frankly because it's so uncomfortable to talk about like I I'm uncomfortable I'm like sweating right now I don't even know what to do with my hands um I think that's why it's so the difficulty so low

• 31:59Greg Isenberg?

  yeah I mean one hundred percent it's I'm I'm speechless dude I don't know what to say either right like I don't wanna

• 32:09Greg Isenberg?

  um so that's why right no you know no one not not many people want to get in this industry yeah um but this industry is being completely upended right now and being changed as as we speak that you know due to AI um and maybe there's some positives to that right like maybe that means you know if there's AI if it's AI generated and you know it it makes the space safer um so maybe there's just like some good things that could come out of that and some altruistic things that you can do uh as well

• 32:44Speaker 01

  yeah yeah well speaking I mean if we're going down this rabbit hole um I don't know if you've heard of the AI girlfriend space it's actually pretty intense um it's actually quite sad too cuz a lot of people fall into this and then they're spending hours a day chatting with this AI girlfriend quote unquote and um actually one of the founders is in my community

• 33:11Speaker 01

  And they do a lot of revenue per month is all I'll say like a lot. Um, and isn't that one of the main traffic like use cases for character dot AI or whatever is people are

• 33:25Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Using as like an AI girlfriend, right?

• 33:29Greg Isenberg?

  Exactly.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  That's crazy. So there is a massive need for it, but all the not safe for work AI girlfriends out there right now are so poorly done. It is, I don't know. I don't know if it's because you and I are more of like digital natives. So we can spot AI like in one glance where like, oh, that's AI generated. But I guess it'll only get better from here, right? Or you could probably try to execute better like the photorealism or, you know, more realistic videos. But um, all the competitors right now, as of right now, for the not safe for work AI girlfriends, they're all super wonky in the chat.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Sounds kind of cringe in the chat. I don't know. Um, for research purposes only, obviously, um, uh, when I was testing them out and all the photos are super obviously AI. So I think there is actually room for someone to come in and do it better. Um, but yeah, this is a mid six figure to even I would even go as far to say seven figure opportunity per month, MRR per month. Um, and people doing who are doing this, small team, like under five people, under five people. So

• 34:48Speaker 01

  not something I would personally touch. This is where I actually draw the line. Um, cause not something I would touch.

• 34:55Greg Isenberg?

  It's it's dark.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  It is dark.

• 34:56Greg Isenberg?

  It's dark.

• 34:57Speaker 01

  Cause I think we've, I don't know if you saw the news, like some, some guy, uh, committed suicide because of.

• 35:04Greg Isenberg?

  I saw that.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, like.

• 35:05Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah, it's dark.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's dark, but.

• 35:08Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  Huge industry and obviously a massive need because people are getting lon- lonelier in the uh, digital era. Um, so, yeah, not something I would touch, but if you guys, if your audience, some of them wanna get in there like swimwear.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  You know, good luck. The opportunity is there.

• 35:31Greg Isenberg?

  Awesome. I think the last topic you want to cover, because I know we're running out of time, is the paid community side. What do you want to talk about there?

• 35:41Speaker 01

  I think I want to talk about how it actually exceeded my expectations in terms of the growth. And I think I've chatted with you a couple of times about it. I was like, yo, I don't even know what I'm doing right now. When I first started the community, so to give your audience some insight, it's like just a community of SEOs where I openly share tactics. And what it's really become is like a bunch of people sharing what is working and what's not. And massive need for it. The other communities online are like slower pace. The people in the communities are more like in-house SEOs, whereas with my community, it's like really grinders.

• 36:24Speaker 01

  People are trying to make money online. There's people who are trying to get their first, you know, 2K a month through all the way like seven, seven figures a month.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  But what I've noticed is there's a massive need for a community online right now. I think that's why Hormozzi is going all in on school. And why, I don't know how to describe it, but there's like some people are seeking connection right now. But I'm just, I just happened to be right place, right time. We met, we're about to crack 80K this month from just subscriptions, which is bonkers because I didn't want to be that guy who's selling a paid community and for it to be like one of my major revenue sources. I always dunk on people who were like, main revenue source is guru, you know? But what can I say? I'm, I'm a guru now, I guess.

• 37:21Speaker 01

  But how do you feel about this space? What do you think? What do you think I should do?

• 37:25Greg Isenberg?

  I mean.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  We're like blowing up. I don't even know. We're still on a free Slack channel plan. We're still on free Slack. I don't know.

• 37:33Greg Isenberg?

  That's insane.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  What am I doing, dude?

• 37:35Greg Isenberg?

  Here's my take. So I'm a community guy. I love. I think there's a huge opportunity in communities. But I think of it as you're not selling community. You're actually selling transformation. So when you say people come in and they're saying, here's what works and here's what doesn't. At the end of the day, the transformation that you're probably selling is, hey, come into this community. And by being a part of this community and learning tips and tricks, you're going to come out of it here as like a 10x better SEO person. And what does that mean ultimately? It means that you're doing 10,000 visits a month. You're going to get to 100,000 visits a month.

• 38:18Greg Isenberg?

  And that's what I think, you know, what people miss on the community thing is you're not just selling like, hey, get access to hang out with me. Like, you know, those communities end up dying because it's so hard to figure out the liquidity of like, posts to comments and getting that all in there. I think if I were you, what I would do is think about, how do I, like, I think about less about building a membership. Sorry, less about building a community and building, and more about building a membership. So it's like, what is the de facto membership for these types of people? What are the things they want? What are the discounts that you can provide?

• 39:01Greg Isenberg?

  What are the, what is the software you can provide? How do you call up Ahrefs and be like, we need 50% off for our community and bundle that in? So that's what I did, you know, as an example, like, I run one community called StartupEmpire.co. And it's basically people like who listen to the show and who love building and who want to build cash flowing businesses powered by audiences, powered by community. And I like reached out to like, like school, for example. And anyone who joins Startup Empire gets a free membership to school. Like, that costs $99, right? Like, and, and doing things like that.

• 39:43Greg Isenberg?

  So if I were you, I'd be thinking about partnerships and building your own software and bundling it into it.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  Hmm. Yeah, that's an idea.

• 39:54Greg Isenberg?

  And don't think of it as a community. Think of it as a membership.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  I see. Yeah. That's a good show, I think. But you know what's surprising to me was all the subscribers come from my crappy 15K subscriber YouTube channel. Isn't that crazy? Like, I would say 90% of that.

• 40:14Greg Isenberg?

  It is. It is, but it also isn't because you're, I've watched your videos and you do some weird stuff on your channel, which is you start off each video by having some creatine.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  People drop off right away, by the way.

• 40:35Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah. And you do things like, it goes against every best practice about YouTube to go and just be like, okay, it's the beginning of the video. I'm going to, I'm just gonna go and spend 30 seconds to two minutes pounding some creatine and you're gonna watch me do it.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, holy, yeah.

• 40:58Greg Isenberg?

  You know, and, and you do things like that and it creates trust with the audience. Like, your audience loves it, you know? And I think little things like that, like you, you have 15,000 subscribers, which doesn't sound like a lot, but my whole take is in B2B and in the, in the space we're in, like you can be the Mr. Beast of your space with 15,000 YouTube subscribers.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I, I do know the, the SEO space on YouTube is very small. That's probably why.

• 41:31Greg Isenberg?

  Yeah.

• 41:32Speaker 01

  Yeah. And one of the things I talked to you about was like, should I stay in my lane? You know what I mean? Or expand? And I think you mentioned like, do a bit of both, like sprinkle it in and try it out. So I think that's my.

• 41:44Greg Isenberg?

  Well, yeah. On YouTube, I think that.

• 41:48Greg Isenberg?

  You do, you want, you want videos that are specifically designed to attract top, top, top of the funnel, like people who are like interested in SEO but aren't SEOs. And then you want some like more mid funnel, I'm in it, creatine, watching you drink creatine, those types of people who are, who are more diehard. But I do think that like going back to how to beat VC funded startups like YouTube.

• 42:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:15Greg Isenberg?

  YouTube and, and member, YouTube and memberships. Like those two things, YouTube memberships, communities, like those are the things that

• 42:25Greg Isenberg?

  a lot of, a lot of venture backed startups aren't doing. Jackie, dude, this has been a pleasure. Comment, comment if you want Jackie to come back. He said, he calls it, he says it how it is, you know? And I appreciate that about you.

• 42:44Greg Isenberg?

  And Jackie, tell the people to like and subscribe and comment, just tell, tell them.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, comment whatever keywords in the title. It helps out in the YouTube algo so much. You guys wouldn't believe it actually. So just as an SEO practice today, find whatever keywords in the title and then try to comment that in the comment section. That's actually one of the ranking factors on YouTube. Did you know that?

• 43:10Greg Isenberg?

  No, I didn't.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  So for example, if I'm trying to rank for backlinks, I would ask my audience to comment backlinks and then I would appear number one on YouTube for that search. So whatever keyword you guys think this video is about, comment it and it'll help us out.

• 43:24Greg Isenberg?

  Appreciate it. And Jackie, where could people get to know you better?

• 43:28Speaker 01

  Probably X is the best way. Find me at indexy or just search Jackie Chow on Google. You can find me everywhere.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  By the way, disclaimer, the YouTube is not for everyone. So do not subscribe if you're, yeah, it's, it's really not for everyone. I got a lot of complaints and like I get DMs on Twitter. They're like begging me to stop eating creatine, but I think at this point it's too late.

• 43:52Greg Isenberg?

  You won't stop, you won't stop.

• 43:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:54Greg Isenberg?

  Give me, give me a quick pitch on, on why creatine is important and why do you do that?

• 44:01Speaker 01

  It's a nootropic, actually. Do you know that? And also, it's really good for recovery if you work out. It helps me out a lot. The nootropic thing part is pretty crazy. I think your audience should Google some of the research that's come out about it. It makes it so you can function on less sleep. So.

• 44:20Greg Isenberg?

  But I will say, I take creatine. My trainer told me that it's okay to take creatine, but you have to be hydrating. Because if you're not hydrating,

• 44:34Greg Isenberg?

  it'll affect your kidneys. And bad stuff could happen. So take creatine, but also hydrate yourselves.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

• 44:45Greg Isenberg?

  You know? All right. Later, Jackie. It's been real.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  Take it easy. Thank you.

• 44:50Greg Isenberg?

  Peace.