Harvard Psychiatrist: How To Heal Your Mind With Your Diet - The Scientific Connection Between Nutrition & Mental Health

I'm going on tour! Come see The School of Greatness LIVE in person! Get my new book Make Money Easy here! What if the root cause of mental health disorders isn't just in your mind, but in your metabolism? In this groundbreaking conversation, Harvard psychiatrist Dr. Chris Palmer challenges everything we think we know about mental health treatment. Drawing from three decades of clinical experience and cutting-edge research, Dr. Palmer reveals how metabolic dysfunction is driving the unprecedented rise in conditions like anxiety, depression, and ADHD. Through compelling patient stories and scientific evidence, he demonstrates why the current paradigm of endless medication isn't working and presents a revolutionary approach that integrates physical and mental health. Most importantly, he offers hope to millions suffering from mental health conditions by showing how lifestyle changes can create real healing. Learn more about Dr. Chris PalmerOrder your copy of Dr. Palmer's book Brain EnergyIn this episode you will learn:How metabolic dysfunction is the hidden driver behind many mental health disordersWhy psychiatric medications can sometimes make conditions worse by disrupting metabolic healthThe shocking connection between obesity and a 3.5x higher risk of mental health conditionsWhy ADHD diagnoses have tripled since 2010 and what's really causing this surgeHow diet, exercise, and sleep can be more powerful than medication for many peopleThe concerning link between birth control pills and mental health in young womenWhy integrating physical and mental health treatment is crucial for true healingFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1728For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Dr. Mark Hyman – greatness.lnk.to/1695SCDr. William Li – greatness.lnk.to/1410SCGlucose Goddess – greatness.lnk.to/1575SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  There are two big things happening at one time that I've never done before. I'm going on a book tour for my new book, Make Money Easy, and I'm doing a podcast tour at the same time. It is going to be big and I'm going to seven cities in 10 days. Get your friends, get your family, bring everyone you know to these cities. I'm coming to Austin, Texas, New York, Boston. We're going to Nashville, then we're going to Los Angeles, San Diego and San Francisco. Make sure to get your tickets right now. Go to lewishouse.com/tour. Again, bring everyone you know. If you're looking to create more financial freedom and abundance in your life and you want to see massive guests live on the School of Greatness show,

• 0:44Lewis Howes?

  get your tickets. I can't wait to see you there.

• 0:53Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back my friend to the School of Greatness. Today, we have a groundbreaking conversation as I sit down with Harvard psychiatrist, Dr. Chris Palmer, to explore the revolutionary connection between mental health and metabolism. Drawing from his 29 years of clinical experience, Dr. Palmer is going to reveal how our current mental health crisis is deeply linked to something very specific that so many of us are struggling with. Before we dive into this, I just want to say thank you. So many of you have been supporting me over the last week as we made this announcement with my first ever national book tour coming up in just a few short weeks.

• 1:38Lewis Howes?

  If you didn't see, we're going to seven cities around the country in 10 days. It's going to be like a sprint within 10 days for me bopping around city to city. And make sure you go check out lewishouse.com/tour right now to see if I'm coming to one of your cities or fly into one of the cities that I'm coming to and get your tickets right now because we're going to do something really powerful. I've got a book coming out and we're going to be talking about the book, Make Money Easy, which is all about your path to peace, freedom and financial abundance. So if you've been struggling with your financial abundance in your life or if you feel like you're blocked, you haven't been on a breakthrough financially,

• 2:20Lewis Howes?

  this is all about how to unlock the energy within you to attract more wealth to you. And from 12 years of interviews with some of the biggest billionaires, influencers in the money and financial space, but also healers. This is a different type of a book because it's about helping you heal your relationship to money so that you can attract it as opposed to having to work hard to go make it. I'm very excited because in every city, we're going to be having a massive surprise guest as well. So it's going to be me speaking, but also we're going to be doing a live podcast tour during this with some of the biggest names in those cities.

• 3:00Lewis Howes?

  It is going to be a fun evening of greatness and a celebration during the launch of my book, live podcast, talking about creating abundance in our lives. And if you have been to the Summit of Greatness, or if you haven't been, the community is on fire. It's electric. It is so much joy and passion and so many innovative thinkers and creative entrepreneurs and artists that come to the Summit of Greatness. So I believe it's going to feel like the same energy of community that will be there at the book tour as well. So make sure to go to lewishouse.com/tour right now, or you can click the link at the top of the description of the podcast episode where you're listening right now on Apple or Spotify to get that as well.

• 3:41Lewis Howes?

  I hope to see you at one of these cities coming up here very soon. And also today, we have a big guest, again, Dr. Chris Palmer. He's going to share shocking statistics about the rise in mental health disorders from anxiety and depression to ADHD and bipolar disorder, and makes a compelling case for why integrating physical and mental health treatment could be the key to helping millions recover. He's got to share so many powerful insights today. I hope you get out your pen and paper or take notes in your phone app. Make sure to share this with one friend that you want to see continue to improve in their life. If you know someone who maybe is struggling at times mentally or their health, you really care about them.

• 4:25Lewis Howes?

  You want to have them with the right science, with the right research, with the right expert, giving the wisdom and the tools to support them in improving day after day. Then just text the link of this podcast episode right now to a few friends and ask them what their biggest takeaway was from this episode. I'm so grateful you're here on the School of Greatness. Now let's dive in. Welcome back everyone at the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Dr. Chris Palmer in the house. Thank you so much for being here.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Thank you for inviting me.

• 4:59Lewis Howes?

  Very excited about this because you have incredible credentials. Harvard psychiatrist, trained researcher. And you are helping people overcome one of the biggest challenges in the world right now, which is understanding mental health, anxiety, PTSD, all these different things that are related around mental health. And it seems like the rise of mental health symptoms have exponentially grown in the last decade. And it seems like people are more medicated than ever before, and it's making them sicker, not better. And as a Harvard-trained researcher and psychiatrist, who also has prescribed people medication over the years,

• 5:39Lewis Howes?

  it seems to me like you've found new ways to help heal mental health disorders. Is that correct? That is not related to medication?

• 5:48Speaker 01

  That is correct. It's related. It's about integrating physical health and mental health. And when you put it together, more often than not, you can actually help people heal and recover.

• 6:01Lewis Howes?

  What would you say then is the root cause of mental disease? And is that the correct way to say it? Is it a mental disease or mental disorder, mental health condition? What is the correct?

• 6:13Speaker 01

  That is the million-dollar question. Because some people will say, "I'm struggling with my mental health. I'm burned out." That is very different than, "I'm struggling with my mental health because I had a really horrible childhood." Which is different than, "I have a mental illness." Which is different than, "I have a mental disorder." Or, "My son has a mental dis..." A severe, chronic, disabling mental disorder. Which is different than, "I'm neurodivergent. I'm just neurodivergent. People need to accept me. I have a different brain.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  I'm autistic, or I have ADHD, or I have a learning disorder." We have these different labels, these different words, and they can mean vastly different things.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  And yet, they're all interconnected. They can't be separated. And I think that's, I think that's one of the more complex areas. Because even the surgeon general is saying things like, we have a mental health epidemic, and one of the root causes is loneliness.

• 7:28Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 7:29Speaker 01

  If we just address loneliness, we'll address this mental health epidemic.

• 7:33Lewis Howes?

  But you can be in a community of your friends and family, but if you're eating all the wrong things, it's going to affect your brain and your mental health as well.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Exactly. There's more to mental health than just loneliness. So, yes, I don't disagree with the surgeon general that loneliness is one piece of the puzzle. I don't think that we have a loneliness epidemic that is driving autism, that is driving ADHD, that is driving bipolar disorder. I don't think the loneliness epidemic is driving all of those things. I think there's much more to the equation than that.

• 8:09Lewis Howes?

  What is the main thing that is driving depression, anxiety, ADHD, bipolar? What is the main root cause of those things?

• 8:18Speaker 01

  At the end of the day, it is metabolic dysfunction.

• 8:22Lewis Howes?

  And what is metabolic dysfunction?

• 8:24Speaker 01

  So, you know, that even gets really complicated fast. The easiest way to explain it is that, you know, most people think of metabolism in simple terms. And they think about it as either you've got a fast metabolism or a slow metabolism, and that makes you lose weight or gain weight. Athletes might think about metabolism in a somewhat more sophisticated way. They might talk about VO2 max and some other things. If you've got a good metabolism, a healthy metabolism, a superior metabolism, you can run faster, you can lift more, you can do more. You can, you have endurance.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  You can run for 30 miles instead of the person who can only make it two miles and then peters out. And the reality is metabolism is those things and is related to those things and does largely influence those things. But metabolism is so much more than just those things. You know, the simplest definition is probably, it's a process that all living organisms use to take food, oxygen, and some other critical ingredients like vitamins and nutrients, and turn those into...

• 9:37Speaker 01

  Energy or building blocks for cells. And that that is what fuels our bodies. It's how our bodies grow. It's how our cells repair themselves. But it's also how our cells end up making hormones. It's how they make neurotransmitters. It's how our muscles move. In a way metabolism is biology.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  So in that sense, it's like this overwhelmingly complicated thing.

• 10:11Lewis Howes?

  So if your biology is bad or off, your mental health is probably going to be off as well.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  Depending on where in the body it's occurring, yes. When your, when your biology is off or when your metabolism is off, you are likely going to have signs or symptoms of a problem somewhere in your brain or body.

• 10:32Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 10:32Speaker 01

  And that could be high blood pressure, high blood glucose in the form of prediabetes or diabetes. It could be obesity. It could be depression or anxiety or ADHD symptoms or seizures or Alzheimer's disease. It spans all of those. Again, not because metabolism is simple, but because metabolism is ridiculously complicated and all encompassing when it comes to biology. So in that sense, some researchers will even push back on me and say, Chris, come on, that's not very helpful. If you're saying that all of this is related to biology, then that doesn't really help us much.

• 11:16Speaker 01

  But if, once you see this big picture and you see these different puzzle pieces and how they all fit together, you can actually come up with shockingly revolutionary treatments sometimes.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  For people with mild mental health conditions, all the way to severe, crippling, disabling, mental health conditions. And at the same time, you're helping them improve their mental health, you can help them achieve a healthy weight and lower their blood pressure and live longer and live healthier.

• 11:54Lewis Howes?

  What I mean, as a Harvard researcher, psychiatrist, you're supposed to be studying the brain or the minds, right? You're not supposed to be studying or thoughts. You're not supposed to be studying the body, right?

• 12:05Speaker 01

  That is exactly right. That's the way most people think of a psychiatrist.

• 12:11Lewis Howes?

  Right. You're not supposed to be, don't think about the rest of the body, just the mind or the brain or the thoughts, right?

• 12:15Speaker 01

  You're a shrink and you lay people on couches and you talk to them about their dreams and their past and their childhood and everything else. Or you're focused on these chemical imbalances, all these neurotransmitters and you're prescribing pills, lithium, Prozac, Zoloft, Xanax, Klonopin, Dapico, whatever. You're just prescribing pills to try to modulate the brain activity.

• 12:42Lewis Howes?

  Body doesn't work moduli. It works as a unified system, right?

• 12:47Speaker 01

  It sure does. It sure does.

• 12:49Lewis Howes?

  You can't treat one element of the body or the brain by itself without hopefully treating the holistic part of the human being, correct?

• 12:58Speaker 01

  I think that is, you know, what you just said is 100% correct. And what you just said, when you say it like that, it sounds so obvious. Most people are gonna think, well, duh. But we in the mental health field, I just want to make clear how disruptive this is to the current paradigm. We in the mental health field prescribe pills that cause obesity.

• 13:28Lewis Howes?

  That cause it.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  Cause it. We give people pills and they gain 100 pounds in one year.

• 13:35Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 13:36Speaker 01

  We, at the same time, they have dramatic increase in cardiovascular risk factors.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  They develop prediabetes or diabetes. And at least in the elderly, some of the medications we prescribe cause premature death.

• 13:54Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  And this is not like conspiracy theory stuff. These warnings are all listed on the package inserts issued by the FDA.

• 14:07Lewis Howes?

  That side effects may include.

• 14:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 14:11Lewis Howes?

  Weight gain.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Diabetes, cardiovascular risk.

• 14:16Lewis Howes?

  So people know that these side effects are most likely going to happen and they take it anyways.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  They take it anyways because that's what the doctors are telling them they need.

• 14:26Lewis Howes?

  And they probably have lived in a lot of pain and suffering for so long that they want some relief also.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  They're desperate.

• 14:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:33Speaker 01

  They're desperate and they are, you know, in extreme cases, lives are ruined.

• 14:43Lewis Howes?

  Families are ruined also.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Families are, like, lives are ruined. So this broken, vulnerable family, whether it's your parents, your spouse, your children, take this vulnerable human being to a doctor and say, please, I'm begging you, help us.

• 15:03Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 15:05Speaker 01

  And the doctor says, we're going to use these pills. And these pills are going to help your symptoms. They are antipsychotics, they are mood stabilizers, they are antidepressants, they are whatever. And again, not all of the pills have the same side effects. So I'm not here to berate psychiatric meds altogether. I think psychiatric meds can save people's lives. I think some people really benefit from them. So I can play both sides of that fence. But the most disruptive part about linking physical health with mental health or linking metabolic health with mental health

• 15:49Speaker 01

  is that so many of our standard treatments are doing exactly the opposite of what we want to do. And that needs to change. And it needs to change as soon as possible because lives are at stake and human beings are suffering.

• 16:07Lewis Howes?

  Yes. I'm curious, based on your, how long have you been a psychiatrist for now?

• 16:12Speaker 01

  Twenty-nine years.

• 16:14Lewis Howes?

  Almost thirty years, almost three decades. You've probably seen a lot of changes over the last three decades. How many, in your opinion, how many people in America or in the world who you think are on mental health drugs, some type of mental health-related drug, actually don't need to be on them if they take other intervention approaches through the things that you're talking about, the health and wellness, the right foods, the right sleep? How many people would you think don't need to be on those drugs if they intervene in a different way? Is it ten percent that don't need them? Is it ninety percent? Is it, is there only, you know, what's the percentage?

• 16:56Speaker 01

  It is, it's a really important question. And the real answer is I'm kind of wildly guessing.

• 17:02Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  But I'll at least share with you the basis for my wild guess. At best, it's maybe twenty percent.

• 17:12Lewis Howes?

  Don't need them.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Who, twenty percent who do need them.

• 17:15Lewis Howes?

  Twenty percent who do.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  Eighty percent who probably could get by if we, as society, take a different stance and use different strategies for human health care, integrating physical health and mental health.

• 17:34Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  And the reason I say that is because the rates of many mental disorders are at all-time ever-recorded highs. The rates of depression, all-time highs. The rates of anxiety, especially in children, have tripled in fifteen years. Anxiety disorders diagnosed by pediatricians tripled in fifteen years. Rates of ADHD have tripled since 2010, fourteen years, triple the rates. The rates of autism spectrum disorder have quadrupled in twenty years. The rates of bipolar disorder in adults have doubled in twenty years.

• 18:15Speaker 01

  In children and adolescents, it's up exponentially because bipolar disorder largely wasn't recognized or diagnosed thirty years ago. So it's up like, literally like thousands of percent. It, it, it's crazy how much that's up. The rates of eating disorder. Five-fold increased risk for eating disorders. In case people have been hiding under a rock. Opioid overdose deaths through the roof. Five-fold increased risk in 25 years. Five-fold increase in opioid overdose deaths. We've long known how to recognize that kind of thing. There's this statistic.

• 19:00Speaker 01

  So a lot of people are like, oh, this can't actually be true. We're just recognizing all these diagnoses. Well, we knew how to recognize eating disorders and people starving themselves to death. 30 years ago. Yeah, we could see it. There was no problem diagnosing that. We knew how to recognize opioid overdose deaths 30 years ago. That people are dying. They're dead on the street.

• 19:24Lewis Howes?

  You get the bloodstream.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  It's not rocket science. It was not that we were stupid 30 years ago and didn't know how to recognize it or diagnose it. There's another statistic called deaths of despair, which include the opioid overdose deaths, but includes suicides and other things, other causes of death, alcohol-related deaths. That is at an all-time high, at least since the Great Depression. I think we actually just, a year or two ago, surpassed the Great Depression. And the reason that's important is not because the Great Depression was a lot of metabolic health conditions.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  The Great Depression was tremendous pain, suffering, despair, lives being destroyed. 25% unemployment rate. People standing in line for food to feed their children. People losing all of their life savings. And there were no, there was no social security program back then. There were no government resources to make sure people weren't homeless. And when people are facing that kind of monumental despair, their lives are ruined. They go out and drink themselves to death. They kill themselves on purpose. They do all sorts of things.

• 20:47Speaker 01

  We are nowhere near that level of pain and suffering. In theory. You look at our economy, there's not, there's no comparison.

• 20:58Lewis Howes?

  People have an abundant, in general, people have an abundance of food options. They have an abundance of shelter in general. They have an abundance of opportunities for success, or jobs, or careers, or choices, right? It's, you have options in general.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  We do, and we have safety nets. If nothing else, safety, it's not like you're living a life of luxury with a safety net.

• 21:22Lewis Howes?

  But the government has funding for.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  But you are in a home with electricity, with heat. You're in a home with food. You're not standing on the street begging people for food so that you can feed your starving child. The deaths of despair are higher than that, period.

• 21:43Lewis Howes?

  Why? What is the root cause, as a psychiatrist, would you say is the root cause of, you know, all these different mental health disorders and diseases?

• 21:53Speaker 01

  You know, I think those two statistics and those two periods, Great Depression and now, are really telling, because the real story is complicated. I'm not here to say all of mental health is due to eating bad food, or people being overweight or diabetic. I'm not here to say that. Because the Great Depression tells us a familiar story that most people know. When you lose everything, when you're poverty-stricken, when you lose your, your, your life.

• 22:34Speaker 01

  So these are people who, say, take a man who had a wife and two kids. He's the provider. He loses his job. He can't feed his wife and two kids. The wife wasn't working. She was staying home, raising the kids. They are furious with him because he had a hundred bucks in the stock market and lost it all. And that was their life savings. And now he's drinking every night. He's now an alcoholic.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Or maybe using opioids because we actually had an opioid epidemic back at the turn of the century too. So now he's numbing his pain and his humiliation. It's easy to understand. So those are psychological, social causes of mental illness or mental health conditions. Those still exist and those can still cause mental illness today.

• 23:34Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  But again, there's a disconnect. We have all time ever recorded highs now, higher than the Great Depression. That doesn't make sense. And what is that? And what I'm saying is that sometimes biology, more than psychology or social factors, sometimes biology can drive mental illness too.

• 23:58Lewis Howes?

  Is that a sometimes or a lot of the times?

• 24:01Speaker 01

  I think, I think it's a lot of the times because I actually think they're all interconnected.

• 24:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Because what's the obesity levels today versus 30, 50 years ago?

• 24:13Speaker 01

  They're staggering as everyone knows.

• 24:16Lewis Howes?

  And type 2 diabetes.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  So right now, the statistics are about 70% of adult Americans are overweight or obese. About 40% of adult Americans are obese. The rates in children, it's about 40% of children now are overweight or obese.

• 24:34Lewis Howes?

  That makes me sad. When kids, when I see kids like that, it makes me sad because it's so hard to reverse it. It's so hard. I know how hard it is to lose weight. It's so hard. But if you're starting young and you're already gaining all that weight, I just feel like it's challenging unless maybe when you're like 16, you hit puberty and it's like maybe metabolism like magically works better. But if you keep consuming the same way without being conscious of how is this going to impact my life? How's it going to impact my overall health of my, my brain, my heart, my, my muscles, my everything? It's so hard to reverse that. And for people that are, from my experience or my witnessing it,

• 25:18Lewis Howes?

  it's hard for people, once they are overweight, to like, first off, lose it, because it might take years. It might take years, depending on how much you've gained. That is a daunting task for someone who's already not feeling good. They might be feeling shame, or guilt, or depression already, because of their weight or their body image, right? It is daunting to try to take it on for most people. And therefore, they don't take it on. Or they try, and then they fall back, and then they go back to old patterns of consuming things that keep them stuck. And it's the cycles, the loop. It's so hard. And that's why I get sad when I see it with kids. And I can imagine it's gotta be tough to be a parent. I'm not a parent. So I can imagine it's tough when your kids are screaming, and they want ice cream every day, or whatever it is.

• 26:03Lewis Howes?

  I can imagine it's gotta be really challenging. So that's also...

• 26:06Speaker 01

  And it's even more challenging for parents, because even if you're one of those parents who's trying your hardest to give your kids real whole foods at home.

• 26:17Lewis Howes?

  At school, they're...

• 26:18Speaker 01

  They go to school and get Pop-Tarts, and Fruit Loops, and mac and cheese, and chocolate chip cookies, and pizza for lunch, or their snack, or their breakfast, or whatever. A lot of those foods, you know, the researchers will call them hyper palatable. Others will call them addictive. Whichever term you prefer, those foods are designed to make people eat more of them than they should.

• 26:51Lewis Howes?

  Not feel satiated or full.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  And so, once you start eating those foods, even if you come home to mom, who's got...

• 27:03Speaker 01

  Chicken or turkey and vegetables on the table. You look at that, you might even eat it and you're still hungry. And then what do you want? You want a bag of chips while you're watching TV or playing your video games. And your mom is gonna probably ultimately give in because you're gonna be whining. This kid's gonna be whining about how they're still hungry.

• 27:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and you're tired and you've worked all day and you don't have the energy to be patient. I get it, it's gotta be challenging.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  And no parent wants to hear their child say, "I'm hungry."

• 27:34Lewis Howes?

  Or, "I hate you."

• 27:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, "I hate you, I'm hungry, why are you starving me?" Every parent wants their children to grow and thrive and like so like that is just an instinctual thing. We feed our children. We make sure they're not hungry. That is an instinctual thing. And so when your kids are getting hooked in other food environments that you have no control over as a parent and then you're trying to feed them healthy food, it's an uphill battle at best and probably a losing battle.

• 28:07Lewis Howes?

  Hard.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  For most people.

• 28:09Lewis Howes?

  For moms or parents, moms and dads watching right now, parents watching right now, as someone who has studied this for three decades, what is the link between nutrition and mental health?

• 28:20Speaker 01

  The reality is it gets really complicated fast. And there are a lot of mental health professionals who are still skeptical about this field. I'm gonna just say that upfront.

• 28:33Lewis Howes?

  Sure, and is there research or science that you've seen that's?

• 28:36Speaker 01

  There is a tremendous amount of research and science clearly documenting these links.

• 28:41Lewis Howes?

  And what is the, what is the link? And then what is the research and science saying about the link between mental health and nutrition?

• 28:48Speaker 01

  So let's build on what we were just talking about. Obesity and mental health.

• 28:54Lewis Howes?

  Because there's a correlation there.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Most people understand that nutrition is related to obesity. That what you're eating plays a role in obesity. I don't have to go to, I don't have to fight too hard to convince people of that. So if we can assume that that is true, what you put in your mouth day to day plays a role in whether you have obesity or not. Once a child has, or an adult has obesity, they have no history of mental illness at all. They start out with obesity.

• 29:28Speaker 01

  Once you have obesity, you are at dramatically increased risk for a wide range of mental disorders.

• 29:36Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Nicotine use disorder, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, major depression, anxiety disorders, personality disorders, eating disorders. Essentially, all of the mental health conditions, all of the major categories of mental health conditions that we have are included. So if you have obesity, you are at much higher risk of developing a wide range of mental health conditions.

• 30:04Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  If your parents have obesity, their offspring are at much greater risk of having neurodevelopmental disorders.

• 30:13Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Meaning autism, ADHD, learning disorders, and others.

• 30:19Lewis Howes?

  What is the percentage or number of like when someone reaches obesity level? What is the likelihood that they'll also have a mental health disorder or condition? Is there like you're 20% more likely, you're 80% more likely to have some type of mental health challenge?

• 30:39Speaker 01

  So it honestly, the real details of that get down to what age is the person? Are they at an age where this disorder is more likely to occur or even be diagnosed or recognized?

• 30:52Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 30:53Speaker 01

  But the rates range anywhere from the low end is 50% more likely to have a mental health condition. The high end is 350%.

• 31:04Lewis Howes?

  Holy cow.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  3.5 times more likely to have mental health conditions, including things like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder.

• 31:14Lewis Howes?

  Just linked to obesity.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  So we have a really good longitudinal study of children. So researchers followed over 5,000 kids from birth to age 24. So even before they have obesity, they have insulin resistance, which we can measure. The children at age nine who had the highest levels of insulin resistance were five times more likely, it's 500% more likely, to develop a psychotic disorder.

• 31:44Lewis Howes?

  Holy cow.

• 31:45Speaker 01

  By the time they were 24.

• 31:46Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 31:47Speaker 01

  That's bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. The children who gained the most weight around the time of puberty, four times more likely to have major depression by the time they turned 24. They, you could mix and match those statistics, but those were the statistically significant findings. But children who gained a lot of weight around puberty were also more likely to develop psychotic disorders and all sorts of other disorders. And likewise, children with high levels of insulin resistance, more likely to develop mood disorders and other disorders. But the bottom line is that, and a five-fold increased risk. I want to be clear.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  When we talk about statistics like, oh, maybe eating so much red meat is bad for you. Those epidemiological studies at best find 10%, 15% increased risk over years. We're talking 500% increased risk.

• 32:47Lewis Howes?

  Man.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  This is not trivial. This is like slap in the face. This is a stronger connection than genes, genetics, than family history, than other things.

• 33:01Lewis Howes?

  Because a lot of people say, well, mental health illness is like genetic, right? It's like a genetic thing, or it was in my family, or my grandfather, or something. But is that true? Or is it more, well, if they were obese, and you also were obese as a child, it's just kind of linked because that was your environment and that was the habits that your parents did, and so you took on those habits. Like, is it truly genetic? Or is it more an environmental pass down?

• 33:28Speaker 01

  I think there's truth in, there are some risk genes that we have identified. And interestingly, almost all of them can be linked directly to metabolism, or specifically mitochondria.

• 33:42Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  We can get into the nerdy biology if you want, but, but they can, almost all of them can be linked to metabolic health.

• 33:51Lewis Howes?

  And if you have a weaker genetic metabolic health symptoms or conditions.

• 33:58Lewis Howes?

  Are you able to reverse that and improve that even if it was linked in your genes from your family?

• 34:04Speaker 01

  I believe we can.

• 34:05Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  And that is

• 34:07Lewis Howes?

  That's huge.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  That, in my mind, is the hope.

• 34:10Lewis Howes?

  Now, is that a belief or is there science or research backing the belief?

• 34:14Speaker 01

  There is. So, we don't have massive randomized clinical trials with thousands of patients yet. So, some will say, you know, until we have a randomized controlled trial of 10,000 people with schizophrenia, we're not going to believe it.

• 34:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  Fine.

• 34:36Lewis Howes?

  But based on your practice?

• 34:38Speaker 01

  Based on my practice, based on the thousands of people that I'm hearing from, based on the pilot trials that are getting done, yes, 100%.

• 34:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  I know this, these strategies, metabolic treatment strategies can save lives, literally.

• 34:57Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Can save lives. And

• 35:01Lewis Howes?

  And these require no drugs?

• 35:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. If anything, the challenge sometimes is getting people off of drugs that they've been on for years or decades.

• 35:09Lewis Howes?

  So, their body can start to heal and get into a cycle of harmony?

• 35:14Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:15Lewis Howes?

  Not a cycle of chemical changing or blocking or disrupting?

• 35:19Speaker 01

  Yes. Again, because of this, again, I'm not anti-medication. And if somebody's taking medications and is thriving on that medication, keep doing it. I love people thriving. And if somebody is saying, I take a stimulant for my ADHD and I'm thriving now, great, keep thriving. If somebody else says, I have anxiety or depression and I take Prozac and it has saved my life and I'm doing great on it and I don't have any side effects, great, keep doing it. But more often than not, a lot of people are not thriving on psychotropic medications. At best, they are managing what they are being told are chronic

• 36:04Speaker 01

  mental health conditions. You're going to be like this for the rest of your life. You just have to accept. That, oh, it must be genetic. You know, the researchers and the clinicians who say that, I have zero doubt. They actually have such good intentions when they say that.

• 36:22Lewis Howes?

  Sure, 100%.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  And the intention is, I don't want to blame people. And I want them to know, this isn't your fault. This isn't your fault. But by telling people it's genetic.

• 36:33Lewis Howes?

  It kind of gives them an out, right? It's like, oh, it's not my fault. And there's nothing I can do about it.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  So, I think that's, again, I think that a lot of people think that that's benevolent. I actually think it's harmful because you're making people hopeless. You're telling people that you are defective.

• 36:52Lewis Howes?

  That's not good.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  Your genes are defective. It's not your fault. It's your parents' fault, and their grandparents' fault, and their parents' fault, and their parents' fault.

• 36:59Lewis Howes?

  And you're gonna be on medication for the rest of your life.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  But you're gonna have to take meds for the rest of your life.

• 37:03Lewis Howes?

  I don't like that.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  And, and we, we're sorry that these meds aren't working ideally.

• 37:08Lewis Howes?

  This is the best we got.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  We're sorry that you're in the hospital every other year.

• 37:11Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  We're sorry that you can't work because your depression and anxiety are so bad, or because your mood instability is so bad, or because your ADHD is so bad, or because your learning disorder is so bad. We're sorry you can't work. We're sorry you're not thriving. But that's just the way it is. And you're just gonna have to accept it. And accept that you've got this unfortunate condition. Again, in the last 25 years, we're telling that to four times more people.

• 37:41Lewis Howes?

  Crazy, crazy.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Four times more people than we were 25 years ago. And it's not because we're just recognizing it more. People's brains are being impaired. That's what I think. At the same time that we have skyrocketing rates of obesity and diabetes. And we see impairment and, you know, appetite signaling, and satiety signaling, and, you know, fat cells and everything else. That's obesity is that. Obesity is a biological, pathological process. It is not good for you. By and large, I think for most people, it's not their fault.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  If somebody's telling you, eat this food, eat these chips, eat these Pop-Tarts, these are good for you, and you're eating them. And those things are making you sick.

• 38:33Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  I think the first step is somebody needs to inform the person that these are not good for you. These are actually toxic for you. They're harming your health. And so we need to start there. And then we need to start with like, schools aren't passing out cigarettes. They're not passing out vapes. Why are they passing out other harmful substances?

• 38:54Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  To our children?

• 38:57Lewis Howes?

  You know, it's interesting, Chris, I, you know, as I'm reflecting on my childhood. And I think there's one thing that saved my life. Because I had extreme learning disability. I was never like diagnosed or anything like that. But I was in the bottom of my class. I, I had to cheat my way through on homeworks and tests just to pass class because it was so challenging for me to

• 39:18Lewis Howes?

  hear something and retain the information, comprehend it. No matter how much I read a book, the page, I couldn't remember what was on the page. It was just challenging. Learning from sitting down and, you know, eight hours a day on a desk, being told complicated things and trying to remember, remember them. It was daunting every day. I couldn't wait to be done with school. So my whole childhood, all the way through high school and college, I did not enjoy sitting in a classroom and being taught in that manner. I love to learn, but being taught in that manner didn't work for me. I was never diagnosed with anything, but I, I, I know I had dyslexia or something because I still struggle today reading.

• 40:02Lewis Howes?

  And I would just wait for the clock to end every day. And eat bad food during lunch, during dinner. And my parents didn't know. We didn't really know about nutrition back in the late eighties, early nineties like we do now, more of it, right? So I just got what I got. I ate what I ate, I got what I got. And there was one thing that saved my life, I think. And that was.

• 40:24Lewis Howes?

  Playing a lot on the playground and playing sports a lot. Because I was moving my body so much after class. Outdoors, running, sprinting, jumping, playing, I think that saved my life. Cause otherwise, if I didn't have that, there's no way I'd be able to stay in shape. And there's no way I've been able to function with my brain. Cause it was already struggling so much from consuming the food and having kind of a learning disability, I guess. It was just daunting every day in class. And I don't think I would have made it if I didn't have the ability to play and be active as well. I think that mitigated a lot of the, the bad foods and candy and chips and 12 Dr. Peppers a day I was drinking or whatever I was doing. It was just like, it mitigated some of that.

• 41:08Lewis Howes?

  Or my body was able to process some of that sugar somehow, so I could function. And without that, I think I've been hard. And I think kids nowadays are, are working out less and less. They're less physically active. And it's gonna really harm them in their adulthood. And you're seeing the link to it already based on your research, so. I don't know how people do it today. Like, I feel like I was lucky enough that I was able to work out, just kind of save my life. I don't know.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  You were lucky, or you were self-medicating. I could almost say.

• 41:42Lewis Howes?

  You mean that the food was self-medication?

• 41:44Speaker 01

  No, the exercise was your self-medication.

• 41:46Lewis Howes?

  That was my medication.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  That you noticed, I feel crappy. I wanna go run and sprint and jump and other stuff. And now I feel alive. Now I feel good.

• 41:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  And that's why you didn't stop. Unfortunately, other kids get sucked into this pit.

• 42:04Lewis Howes?

  This was pre-social media also, so I wasn't, you know.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  Where it just drains you of all your energy. And now you're becoming overweight or obese and prediabetic. And now you don't have energy to go run. And you're getting more and more out of shape. And it's harder for you to run because you're overweight or obese. And now other people are making fun of you. You're not getting any kind of positive reinforcement for anything athletic that you're doing. If anything, you're getting laughed at and made fun of.

• 42:34Lewis Howes?

  Which makes you wanna eat more and just.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Which makes you then say, well, why am I doing this? I may as well just give up. I'm, I'm not a jock, I'm not an athlete. That's for other people. I'll just focus on school or I'll just focus on whatever. And then a few years later, they're getting diagnosed with depression, anxiety, ADHD, whatever, and they're getting medicated, and now they're on that path.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  You know, I wanna, I wanna come back to this concept of obesity, because one of the, one of the most strongly kind of recommended remedies to the obesity epidemic is acceptance.

• 43:18Lewis Howes?

  Acceptance of what?

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Acceptance of obesity. It's this movement called body positivity.

• 43:25Lewis Howes?

  I was just gonna ask you this.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  Body positivity.

• 43:28Lewis Howes?

  I was just gonna ask you this, because this is probably the most controversial thing that you'll talk about.

• 43:32Speaker 01

  Let's all be positive. Let's just stop fighting this uphill battle. Let's accept that obesity is around. Some will go so far as to say it's genetic, again, well-intentioned. It's not genetic, people, like, we didn't have the rates of obesity 50 years ago that we do now. Anybody who tells you it's genetic is living in a fairy tale.

• 43:58Lewis Howes?

  How scary is it for you as a psychiatrist and someone who treats mental health disorders on a daily basis?

• 44:04Speaker 01

  It is terrifying for me, because, not because I don't want people to be able to be overweight or obese, and be happy and healthy, and go through life, and be accepted, and not be made fun of. If somebody can be obese, and otherwise healthy, and their brain is intact, and they are functioning in life, and they have friends, and they have romantic relationships, and everything that they want, and it's all going well, I have no problem with that person. It's, it's free country, make your choices, we're, we're all different, we've all got our strengths and weaknesses, leave that person alone.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  But the statistics we talked about earlier tell a very different story. It's not just their body shape that's at risk. It's not just societal stigma. It's not just fat shaming that is the risk. Obesity is a symptom. That your metabolism is disrupted. Wow. And something is disrupting your metabolism. And at the same time, it is causing the symptom of obesity. The same time that it's causing your fat cells to just get larger and larger and larger. And just unrelentingly larger and larger and larger, meaning more and more weight gain.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  Those same processes are affecting the way your brain functions. And putting you at risk for depression, anxiety, burnout, psychosis, bipolar symptoms. Wow. And those are the labels that will then ruin your life. And nobody will even think to connect those two dots. Nobody will even think those two dots are even related. Despite the abundance of research that we have. And again, many in the mental health field are terrified to talk about this. Why? Because they know that the pills we're prescribing are causing obesity. Oh, man. We are contributing to this problem.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  So little Susie comes in, normal weight, with some mood instability and depression. And we start putting her on pills. And those pills make her gain forty pounds. And then two years later, she develops her first psychotic episode.

• 46:35Speaker 01

  And we think the mental health field right now just says, well, she just had a bad illness. Our treatments, the obesity, none of that had anything to do with her new brain symptoms. It's painful to think about that. It's been painful for me as a psychiatrist to think about that because I Because you were trained a certain way. I was trained a certain way and I was prescribing those pills and I still prescribe those pills in some situations to patients. And to think that I may have contributed to people's chronic mental health conditions. It goes all the way from, I feel guilt ridden, I feel disgusted with myself, I feel nauseated.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  If I really let myself think about the patients and the level of suffering and pain they experienced, the decimation to their lives, the suicides, the people who are dead. When I really think about that, it's nauseating to think that our current treatments contributed to that or may have contributed to that. And what I'm saying is that the science is finally coming together. So if there are any clinicians, psychiatrists, please do your research. Google it, PubMed, search it, do whatever you need to do. Most of your listeners are not psychiatrists and scientists.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  But what I'm here to tell all, everyone, is that the science has come together. The science is coming together. We have this outline which calls for a paradigm shift. A paradigm shift in how we think about mental health and how we treat it. And to put it in the simplest terms, we need to pair and integrate physical health and mental health. All your listeners are going to say, yeah, duh, of course. Well, then why are we prescribing pills that are causing physical health conditions? Why are we prescribing pills that are causing massive weight gain, diabetes, cardiovascular disease, premature mortality?

• 48:47Speaker 01

  On average, people with mental illness, any one, take your pick, any mental illness, people diagnosed with a mental illness are dying early deaths. On average, men are losing 10 years of life, women are losing seven years of life. And the primary cause of death is not suicide. The primary cause of death are heart attacks and strokes. Just 10 years earlier than everyone else. And we are turning a blind eye to this. I'm less concerned, quite honestly, I'm less concerned about the end of life. If you die happy at 70 instead of 80, whatever. I mean, to the people who love you, it is, it's a big deal. And I don't mean to minimize that or be dismissive of that.

• 49:32Speaker 01

  If you've got children, I mean, they care. And yes, I want everybody to live long, healthy lives. But what I'm much more concerned about as a psychiatrist is what happened to that person for the 40 years prior to their death? Were they thriving or were they suffering? Yeah. With unrelenting mental anguish? Were they suffering? Or were they just even, just like you described when you were younger? Were they muddling by? They're getting by, they're doing okay. But they constantly, chronically feel, I'm less than everyone else. I'm not smart like everyone else. I'm not motivated like everyone else.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  I, maybe I just, you know, there's something wrong with me. Maybe I'm depressed or I'm anxious or I've got ADD or whatever. I've got a learning disorder. But there are millions and millions of people getting through life, feeling like they're not good enough. Feeling like they don't measure up. And what I'm here to say is we can do better.

• 50:43Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Those people should not have to go through life like that. Those people should be thriving and we should help them thrive.

• 50:50Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent. And you mentioned something about kind of body acceptance. It seems like when I was growing up in the nineties or whatever, it was about the media portrayed extreme skinny in women as beautiful. And then now it seems like a different extreme. It's like obesity is beautiful and the media portrays that and body acceptance. And I think there's a good intention behind it. But as a psychiatrist, what is the fear that you have when people are being celebrated for obesity versus thinking about a holistic health approach to life?

• 51:30Speaker 01

  I really think it's because, you know, I think that movement again, it's good intention.

• 51:37Lewis Howes?

  Accept yourself, yeah.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  That they think that all of the bad outcomes of obesity are because of fat shaming and societal stigma. And if society would just come around and learn to be kinder and nicer to people with obesity, if everybody could play nice together, we would have a happier world. What I'm here to tell you is that's not true. Obesity is a symptom. It's like smoke coming out of your house and ignoring it and saying, let's have a, let's have a smoke positivity home. Let's, let's just celebrate the smoke coming out of our homes and ignore that there's a fire burning.

• 52:22Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  That may burn down our foundation, that may burn down our home. What I'm saying is let's not ignore it. It is a symptom of metabolic dysfunction or dysregulation. We can understand it and we can do something about it. And again, we can help people thrive. A lot of people quickly then go to Ozempic. Let's just prescribe Ozempic for everybody. Put everybody on Ozempic, that'll solve the, that'll save the day. No, that won't save the day. There is still a root cause of the obesity. And if we don't address it,

• 53:01Speaker 01

  if we just ignore it and treat the symptom with Ozempic, and I'm not anti Ozempic. If people need Ozempic to get a leg up on the lifestyle changes that they need to make, if that helps them get over their addictive cravings for the junk food that they should know they can't eat, then I'm all for it. But what I want to be clear is that our dietary advice for too long has been too simplistic. We tell people eat less and that'll solve the problem. So you can have Doritos still, but just eat fewer of them. Instead of eating the whole bag, eat half the bag.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  You can have your chocolate chip cookies, the ultra-processed kind, not the kind that grandma's making, the ultra-processed kind of choc- you can have those chocolate chip cookies, but just have two or three instead of 10. The problem is that people can white knuckle it for a few weeks or a few months. They can, and this is the illusion, is that people can white knuckle it. They can white knuckle it and eat less of that crappy food. And sure enough, their weight will go down a little bit. And then everybody will say, "See? See? It's a willpower thing." But that person will slip back 95% of the time. That's what the statistics tell us. Wow.

• 54:30Speaker 01

  95% of the time, when they lose weight in those ways, they will slip back. Why? Because their cravings will come back. Their cravings actually never left. They were just white knuckling it. And people can only white knuckle it for so long. So instead, what I would argue is that people need to be given better advice. And that advice means-

• 54:56Speaker 01

  Some foods are gonna be healthier for you than other foods. You can't eat bags of Doritos every day and think that you are going to be healthy. Right. You can't eat ultra-processed chocolate chip cookies every day as your treat and think that you are gonna be healthy. And it's not because those foods are so delicious. So some people will say that. They're just really delicious. Well, grandmas made delicious food a hundred years ago. We had Thanksgiving celebrations a hundred years ago. Yeah, it wasn't all ultra-processed. People weren't obese at nearly the rates that we have now.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  So it's not just delicious food versus bland salad. That's not the decision point. The decision point is the ultra-processing. You know, there's lots of debates about what exactly is happening. But you know, there's a researcher at the NIH, Kevin Hall, who's done some research on ultra-processed foods. He basically takes people, locks them up in a metabolic ward and feeds them, explicitly feeds them, the exact same macros. So the same protein, fat, carbohydrate. Calories. Calories, everything, giving them like 6,000 calories.

• 56:23Speaker 01

  The option of 6,000 calories a day. 6,000, wow. With meals and snacks and then just says, eat whatever you want. Try not to lose or gain weight. Just eat whatever you want. He did a study that was published over four years ago now. And when he gave them unprocessed foods, same macros, same calorie content, all that. When he gave them unprocessed foods versus ultra-processed foods, on average, the people ate 500 calories more of the ultra-processed versions and they gained on average about two kilograms, which is about almost five pounds. Wow. In just two weeks. In just two weeks.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  When they were given the real whole food, on average, they lost about the five pounds. He just began replicating this study, he's not done with it. But he just published some interim results. The interim results are even worse. When the, when the subjects were given the ultra-processed, highly palatable foods, on average, they ate a thousand calories extra a day. The interesting thing is that he asked the, the participants through the whole study, how do you like the food that we're giving you? How full are you? How hungry are you? How are you feeling? The ratings on all of the different foods were similar.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  They were not different. So when people were being given real whole foods, it wasn't that they were complaining, saying this food sucks. They weren't saying, I'm hungry all the time. They weren't saying any of that. It's just, they stopped eating. Because their metabolism was healthier. And their brain told them, you're full, you're done. You're good. Stop eating. Wow. When they were eating the ultra-processed stuff, there are very likely, based on that research alone, I think it's fair to say, there are chemicals added that just make the foods hyper-palatable or addictive. Yeah.

• 58:30Speaker 01

  Now, you know, when I say that, most people are like, well, yeah, we kind of get that. That's probably true. If I'm selling food, if I'm a food company CEO, what's my goal? Sell the most food possible. Get people to eat the whole bag so that they have to go back to the grocery store tomorrow and get another bag. And then the next day, get another bag. And then the next day, get another bag. Just keep pulling it. That's good for my profit margin. That CEO doesn't really care about your health. Yeah. They certainly don't care about your brain health, or your child's brain health. And right now, we're not even holding them responsible or accountable for what that, what their chemicals might be doing to our children's brains. Wow.

• 59:14Speaker 01

  And when, when your child ends up with a severe chronic mental health condition, you know, at a minimum, we call it failure to launch. Millions of those people out there. Mm-hmm. All these, men more than women, unfortunately. All these guys are sitting in their parents' basements, playing video games, failing to launch.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  That's the minimum. The maximum is your kid is going to psychiatrists, trying medication after medication, going to therapists, in and out of hospitals, maybe in and out of jail or prison.

• 59:52Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 59:53Speaker 01

  Maybe in and out of ERs with overdoses. And the parents are terrified that they are gonna lose their children.

• 1:00:02Lewis Howes?

  And you think the main cause of of all these things is linked to nutrition? And your ability to move your body?

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  I think it's linked, so I would go broader, I would say it's linked to metabolism. But yes, there's no doubt.

• 1:00:17Lewis Howes?

  That is sleep, movement.

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Nutrition, movement, sleep are huge.

• 1:00:22Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  And so, you know, screens come into it. Everybody's glued to their phone and what do screens do? Well, one, they prevent you from moving.

• 1:00:30Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 1:00:31Speaker 01

  You're not, you're not running outside in the sunshine when you're on a screen.

• 1:00:35Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 1:00:37Speaker 01

  And screens interfere with sleep.

• 1:00:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  So, so it's kind of a, screens are a double whammy. So, is screen addiction part of the problem? A hundred percent. And then, sure, the cyberbullying and everything that's going on when you're in that screen. Sure, yeah, that doesn't help. But I think it really is more physiological. I think it, the cyberbullying, the trauma, the stress, all of that is playing a role on our biology.

• 1:01:08Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  That when you are traumatized, when you are stressed, it is taking a toll on your body. Most people get that. And what I'm saying is if you dig deep, it's actually taking a toll on your metabolic health.

• 1:01:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  It's making your blood glucose go up from stress hormones and cortisol. It's making your heart rate go up. It's increasing your blood pressure. And if it's occurring over long periods of time, I mean, those are metabolic biomarkers.

• 1:01:41Lewis Howes?

  Chronic stress.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:43Lewis Howes?

  Chronic stress is linked to trauma, unresolved trauma, pressures, all these different things as well.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:01:50Lewis Howes?

  So when we can learn to start the healing journey of past traumas, psychologically, emotionally, physical, sexual traumas, if we can start the healing journey of that.

• 1:02:03Lewis Howes?

  And do these other things you're talking about from the physical side, from sleep, from minimizing screens, from nutrition, movement, all these different things. It sounds like you'll be able to set yourself up for more mental peace and therefore greater success as a human being.

• 1:02:19Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. Like what you just laid out, and I know you're like a shining example of all of this. So you're like everyone's role model for all of this, but yes. And what I'm saying is that you don't have a chemical imbalance that you need to medicate.

• 1:02:35Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:02:36Speaker 01

  And you don't necessarily need to be in therapy for the rest of your life every week. You're not a defective human being. That you may have had vulnerabilities. You may have had a less than optimal brain function and the strategies that you've used allowed you to thrive. Again, does anybody get to perfection? No, we're all human. We've all got our strengths. We've all got our weaknesses. That's just the way it is and that's never gonna change.

• 1:03:10Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  But you can still have vulnerabilities. You can still struggle with reading, for example, like you mentioned a little bit ago. You can still struggle with reading and be quite successful.

• 1:03:20Lewis Howes?

  And it doesn't have to affect my self-worth anymore.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:03:25Lewis Howes?

  It doesn't have to affect my ability to feel good about myself. It's okay, yeah.

• 1:03:31Speaker 01

  And especially nowadays and with learning and with education and all of the technology that we do have. If reading's not your thing, you can acquire information or learn in other ways.

• 1:03:43Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent, yeah.

• 1:03:44Speaker 01

  And that's the thing. So some of it is just recognizing what are people's strengths? What are their weaknesses? What are their vulnerabilities? If you're a little overweight, okay, maybe you're not gonna be the super thin athlete. That's okay. You don't need to be.

• 1:04:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  You don't need to be that in order to thrive. Other people may not be good with reading. Other people may have trouble sitting still for long periods of time. Other people, you know, whatever. I mean, it's fine. We can help people thrive. It's really strange because there are people who wanna like deny all of mental health conditions or brain, like there's no such a thing as mental illness. It's all made up. And I'm like, I'm not, definitely not in that camp.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  So I am in the camp that some people can have pretty significant mental health conditions, mental disorders is what I would call them, mental illnesses, whatever term people want to use, where their brains are not functioning properly, where they can't pay attention, where they're having psychotic symptoms, where they're having panic attacks for no reason, where their brain is just ruminating on past trauma or past painful events. And even though they say to themselves, "Stop it, stop doing that, stop thinking about it, just go on with life." Like, if you could just forget about that, everything would be fine.

• 1:05:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  And their brain won't let them forget. Their brain just keeps bringing it back up. I do think that people can have conditions where their brains aren't functioning optimally. And what I'm here to say is, yes, medications, we can still use them. If they can help people achieve remission and recovery and thrive in life, I'm all for it.

• 1:05:37Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. But not stay on it forever.

• 1:05:40Speaker 01

  But far too many people are not getting any of those three things. They are not getting remission, they are not getting recovery, they are not thriving.

• 1:05:47Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  They are being medicated, they're being told, "You've got a severe, a chronic mental health condition, we will manage it the best we can."

• 1:05:58Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  And I want those people to hear loud and clear, "There is a new way."

• 1:06:03Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I've got a couple of final questions for you, because I think this has been a really powerful starter. We'll have to have you back on and talk more extensively. But if people want more from Dr. Chris Palmer, leave a comment below if you're on YouTube, or message us and let us know if you want to hear more, what question you really want answered. But I think this is a great start for people, because we could talk for hours right now, but I think this is a lot for people to digest and to reflect on, because so many people have different things that they've been struggling with. There's a couple of final questions I want to ask you. There's a lot, it seems like lately I've heard more people say they've been diagnosed with ADHD.

• 1:06:47Lewis Howes?

  As a psychiatrist, what is the root cause of ADHD? And also, what is the best way to start healing or reversing ADHD?

• 1:06:56Speaker 01

  I think, you know, ADHD in its classic form is considered a neurodevelopmental disorder, meaning you're either born that way, or it's something that's happening to you early in life.

• 1:07:08Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 1:07:10Speaker 01

  It can, there are biological, psychological, and social causes of it. So, the biology can include everything we've talked about.

• 1:07:22Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 1:07:22Speaker 01

  Diet, exercise, and those things are way off base and skyrocketing in our, in our population. And I think that is a big part of the reason why we have skyrocketing rates of ADHD. Again, if your parents have-

• 1:07:38Lewis Howes?

  With the lack, with the lack of the things we talked about, nutrition, sleep-

• 1:07:42Speaker 01

  Nutrition, sleep, exercise. That, that if, if children are being fed from birth,

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  highly processed, ultra-processed baby food formula with added sugars and other things. You know, right now, the World Health Organization and the American guidelines, dietary guidelines for Americans say that children under two should have zero foods with added sugar.

• 1:08:11Lewis Howes?

  Wow, yeah.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  Zero. Gerber, if you look at the ingredient list of Gerber baby foods-

• 1:08:16Lewis Howes?

  Salt sugar.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  A lot of them have sugar. It's not all sugar, but a lot of them have added sugar. We are not following these common sense guidelines. And so, we're setting these young brains up for not thriving. And again, this is not impossible. Japan does a very different job. The rates of obesity and overweight in Japanese children are less than 5%.

• 1:08:46Lewis Howes?

  What is it in America?

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  Forty percent.

• 1:08:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Japan knows something we don't. And what they know is that they feed their kids broccoli and seaweed.

• 1:08:57Lewis Howes?

  Oh, food, yeah.

• 1:08:59Speaker 01

  And, you know, fish and other things. That they're eating them real, they're giving them real food.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  And so that's part of it. Some of the other biology could be infections. If you get an infection early in life, you're much more likely to have a whole range of neuropsychiatric disorders, including ADHD.

• 1:09:22Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  But then psychological and social factors play a role. Trauma, stress, childhood adversity, poverty. Those things, yes, they do play a role. So for some kids, you're gonna look at some kids with, who get diagnosed with ADHD. And if they're in a crappy abusive household, yelling, screaming, shootings on the street, but yelling, screaming in the household.

• 1:09:48Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  It's pretty clear why that kid is having some mental health condition.

• 1:09:55Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  And I don't care what it is. It's probably more than just ADHD. It might be PTSD, anxiety, depression, whatever, a lot of it. I mean, that's obvious. So I'm not here to take away from those obvious cases.

• 1:10:10Speaker 01

  Those situations have not increased in our society. We've had a tripling in ADHD diagnoses since 2010. Those poverty-stricken, abusive households have not tripled.

• 1:10:24Lewis Howes?

  So what is the root then of that?

• 1:10:26Speaker 01

  The root is metabolic dysfunction, which means diet, exercise, lifestyle, other things.

• 1:10:32Lewis Howes?

  Have you seen people who've come in to your clinic or other psychiatrists that you know are working with patients that come in and are diagnosed with ADHD, that have gone on this?

• 1:10:45Lewis Howes?

  Intervention, not using medication, but intervention of I'm gonna prescribe you eight hours of sleep, whole food diet, movement, moving your body. And have you seen them be able to reverse ADHD?

• 1:10:58Speaker 01

  A hundred percent.

• 1:10:59Lewis Howes?

  Really? So it's a reversible thing?

• 1:11:02Speaker 01

  It is. So that should not be controversial. The psychiatry field has long said a lot of people will outgrow ADHD. Other research shows, like I just attended a summit on ADHD with world renowned experts. Cutting edge research. The ADHD brain just appears to be five years behind other brains. But that's big when you're in school.

• 1:11:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:29Speaker 01

  If you're five years behind the other kids.

• 1:11:31Lewis Howes?

  I might have been like 10 years behind. I was like struggling.

• 1:11:34Speaker 01

  You're five years behind the other kids? That's huge and it's really huge for the teachers. So the teachers see you as a problem.

• 1:11:40Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:11:41Speaker 01

  They see you as five years immature, all the way through.

• 1:11:46Lewis Howes?

  But adults are getting it now.

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  But, well, so that's, that is the thing. Is that what I think is happening is that as we have skyrocketing rates of metabolic disorders in humans and adults, 70% of adults are overweight or obese. It impacts their brain function at the same time. We know this. This is not speculative. We have neuroimaging studies documenting this. We have cognitive tests documenting this. Random, like controlled trials, like this is not, this is really not kind of up for debate, if you will.

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  If you believe in science, if you believe in research, this is not controversial. Obesity affects the function of the brain.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  I would argue it goes the other way. That obesity may be a reflection of brain dysfunction. That the appetite centers and the, our feeding behavior centers are in the brain. And when those are dysregulated, that makes people eat more than they should. But that dysregulation doesn't stop at just those two little areas. It, it goes to the rest of the brain.

• 1:13:01Lewis Howes?

  And it's all connected, yeah.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  It's all connected. And so, at the same time that you have dysregulation in your appetite signaling, you have dysregulation in paying attention.

• 1:13:15Lewis Howes?

  Of course.

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  Concentrating, motivating yourself, sitting still. And so, adults will, I think rightfully, go to psychiatrists saying, "There's something wrong with me." A lot of times, they probably struggled with metabolic health since they were kids. So it's not, they're not making it up, like, "Yeah, I was eating Captain Crunch and Fruit Loops and drinking Kool-Aid and, you know, Dr. Peppers and all that stuff when I was a kid." And yeah, now, now in hindsight, I realized, "Yeah, I did struggle in school and nobody knew it." And the psychiatrists today are saying, "Aha, we've, we've diagnosed ADHD that just got missed."

• 1:13:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:00Speaker 01

  And what I'm saying is, no, it, it's bigger than that. And whether the person had it since childhood, I think some adults are developing it now, newer. We need to put it together. And again, the reason we need to put it together is because we are prescribing more psychiatric pills than ever. We are delivering more psychotherapy than ever. More people are getting psychotherapy than ever before. We are distributing treatments. We are scaling treatments.

• 1:14:38Speaker 01

  And the rates are skyrocketing. It's a losing battle.

• 1:14:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  The answer is not more pills. The answer is not even better pills. The answer is let's understand the biology of what is happening to the human brain and the human body. And let's address it. And at the end of the day, it's not rocket science solutions.

• 1:15:05Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:15:05Speaker 01

  It's diet, nutrition, exercise, movement.

• 1:15:10Lewis Howes?

  Sleep.

• 1:15:10Speaker 01

  Sleep. Refraining from harmful substance use. And the social stuff, the relationships, the connection, the purpose in life. You've got to have a purpose. You need to have a passion. Everybody needs that.

• 1:15:25Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:15:26Speaker 01

  You put those things together. I'm not even gonna keep going on. Those are the lifestyle medicine buckets. You put those together and you've got a winning package.

• 1:15:34Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:15:35Speaker 01

  For most people.

• 1:15:36Lewis Howes?

  I think I want to finish with this one final question. Cause I want you to come back on and we can talk more. And I don't wanna, I wanna, I wanna keep it at this for a great starter for people. Then I want us to come back on in the future and do more. But this is the question, I don't know why this came up for me during this conversation. I'm not an expert in this. Um, you know. I don't know if it's good or bad. But I know a lot of women in the world take the pill. I don't know if you have any research on this or if this is something that psychiatrists study. But how much does the pill affect women's mental health?

• 1:16:15Speaker 01

  It definitely affects women's mental health.

• 1:16:19Lewis Howes?

  Does it improve it? Does it hurt it? Because it seems like a lot of women are on the pill. And whatever your preference is, doesn't matter to me if that's what you're doing. But it doesn't seem to be natural to be blocking hormones that are supposed to be within a human being on a monthly cycle. For me, it just doesn't seem natural. Even though it's been conditioned that this is a good thing or a lot of people can take it and it's gonna help prevent a lot of things, I get that. But how much is the pill hurting women more than they actually know?

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  I think that, yeah, so we have, we do have good research studies on this.

• 1:16:55Speaker 01

  The real answer is, it's complicated. So first and foremost, I want to say, women have a right to contraception, to effective contraception.

• 1:17:03Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:17:04Speaker 01

  We don't want, we don't want lots of unwanted pregnancies.

• 1:17:07Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent, yeah, I'm not saying like-

• 1:17:09Speaker 01

  Let's start there. So, so everything else I'm gonna say that follows, I'm not at all in favor of taking contraception away from women, or then just trying to have them barefoot and pregnant and kitchen-

• 1:17:19Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:17:21Speaker 01

  None of that.

• 1:17:21Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent, but, but-

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  Number two-

• 1:17:23Lewis Howes?

  There's a price you pay for everything.

• 1:17:25Speaker 01

  There is. And, so there are some women, probably a lower percentage than, than half, who will benefit from birth control pills. So there-

• 1:17:38Lewis Howes?

  How many percentage?

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  It's, it's hard to say. So it really is kind of, I want to say anecdotal, it's more than anecdotal, because like-

• 1:17:47Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 1:17:47Speaker 01

  OB-GYNs and, and reproductive psychiatrists will actually use birth control for women who have really erratic periods or other things.

• 1:17:58Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:17:59Speaker 01

  And, some women can benefit tremendously from it. The bad news is, we do have large population studies. If you are a younger woman, less than 20, on birth control, the, the chances that you might attempt suicide, three times higher.

• 1:18:22Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 1:18:23Speaker 01

  If you're on birth control than if you're not on birth control.

• 1:18:25Lewis Howes?

  Really? Three times higher.

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  Now, there are confounding variables in that. Because if you're on birth control, it means that you're probably dating. And maybe some of those suicide attempts are because, you know, the love of your life just broke your heart and dumped you, or whatever.

• 1:18:39Lewis Howes?

  I mean, but people go through breakups all the time.

• 1:18:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, and people who aren't dating are being fat shamed and lonely and then feeling, feeling ugly. And, so you could, you could play those, you could play those lots of different ways. Three times the suicide rate is massive.

• 1:18:56Lewis Howes?

  It's huge, of women under 20 who are taking-

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  Birth control.

• 1:19:00Lewis Howes?

  Birth control.

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  Versus women who are not taking birth.

• 1:19:02Lewis Howes?

  What does birth control do to the brain of a woman when they're on it every single day?

• 1:19:07Speaker 01

  So the one thing, so, so the reality is estrogen and progesterone-

• 1:19:13Speaker 01

  Are have massive effects on the brain and body. Most people think of them as reproductive hormones and they, you know, play a role in the ovaries.

• 1:19:25Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  Way the ovaries function and yes, they do. And that's why women are taking them for reproductive control.

• 1:19:32Lewis Howes?

  But it can't spot one area of the body.

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  But guess what? They there are estrogen and progesterone receptors located throughout the human brain.

• 1:19:40Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  And that estrogen, those estrogens and progesterones are affecting the function of your brain. Numerous areas, including mood regulation, attention, cognition. So this is one of the reasons. So we know that estrogen, for example, impacts brain function. I mean, the strongest evidence is later in life. So when women go through menopause, depending on whether you go through menopause early or late, that will impact your risk for Alzheimer's disease, for example. Because estrogen is playing a direct role in brain metabolism.

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  So it comes back to what I'm talking about overall, brain metabolism. It's a hormone. It's a well-known hormone. Everybody knows it. So again, this kind of thinking about mental disorders as metabolic disorders is about putting all of the pieces of the puzzle together. It's not about replacing them. But so women will know this. Like when I talk about this with women, they're like, you're a man saying this?

• 1:20:49Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:20:50Speaker 01

  Either they're angry at me for how dare you even talk about it. You're a man, you don't have any right. Or thank God, a man finally gets it and is speaking the truth. Because we women have been trying to shout this from the rooftops and everybody dismisses us and we do have brain symptoms.

• 1:21:07Speaker 01

  And it's not our fault, and we shouldn't be ashamed of it, and we shouldn't be shunned for it. And people shouldn't be telling us we're hormonal, like, like we're defective because we have hormones. We can use this knowledge, we can use this science to come up with better strategies, to be more patient, compassionate with people. Again, people are still gonna go through menopause. Women are gonna go through menopause, like it or not. Yeah. And you're gonna have some decisions to make about, do you wanna take hormones? Do you not wanna take hormones? Are they indicated? That transition is going to affect your brain, whether you like it or not. So I'm not here to say that we can make everything perfect,

• 1:21:50Speaker 01

  and everybody can live perfect lives and not have any struggles and not have any adversity at all. I'm not here to say that. But what I am here to say is that if you understand, you can come up with treatment solutions. Yes. You can come up with accommodations, if you will, that if, if, if we know that this period is happening, like, like pregnancy and then postpartum period. That's something we can all anticipate. And we can all rally to support that woman to get through the postpartum period. If she's vulnerable to mental health episodes in the postpartum period, we can all rally to support her. And the easiest thing we can do is to make sure she's not sleep deprived. Yes.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  We can like, make sure that if she's breastfeeding, that hey, honey, could you pump maybe one or two bottles so that somebody else can get up in the middle of the night? Sure, sure. And feed the baby so that you're not doing it every two hours because you need some sleep. Hundred percent. And, I mean, there's so many clear, common sense things. Again, that's not rocket science. Doesn't cost too much money, it just needs some supportive Sure. husband, boyfriend, family, whatever. Sure. To come to the rescue and help her out. Right. Knowing that you're vulnerable right now. Sure, sure. Cause of hormones and other things. I guess the thing I'm taking away from this, I want

• 1:23:11Lewis Howes?

  You know, again, I'm not an expert in this, but and we're not women. So I can't speak into the experience of a woman. But what I'm hearing you say, the research and the data and the science is saying that if a woman is on birth control, it is three times more likely they will have suicide thoughts or suicidal. Is that what you said?

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  Suicidality, yeah.

• 1:23:33Lewis Howes?

  And so I just want people to be aware of that. And maybe there's a bigger benefit to you. And maybe there's, maybe you can manage that in other ways where it doesn't affect you. But it sounds like there's a massive risk to it. And I just want women to be aware of what they're taking on if they choose that option.

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  So 100% everything you just said. And maybe even more concretely, just or just to add to that. To say, if you are a woman and you've chosen to go on birth control and now all of a sudden, a few months later or a year later, you're having mental health struggles, anxiety, depression, suicidality, anything, mood instability.

• 1:24:18Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  Talk to your healthcare practitioner about could this birth control pill be playing a role in my new onset mental health condition?

• 1:24:28Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:24:30Speaker 01

  And could I maybe go off of this and let's see? And.

• 1:24:36Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, don't, don't take more pills for the symptoms of the pill. You know what I mean? It's like.

• 1:24:41Speaker 01

  Well, that's the challenge is that.

• 1:24:43Lewis Howes?

  Oh, stay on the birth control. But here's something else to add in now.

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  Exactly. Let's take the worst case scenario.

• 1:24:48Lewis Howes?

  That's not good.

• 1:24:48Speaker 01

  A birth control pill is going to adversely affect a woman's mental health.

• 1:24:52Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:24:53Speaker 01

  She is 18 years old. We'll make her an adult, so we don't piss anyone off. She's 18 years old. She decides to go on birth control. She had never had mental health symptoms before. And now at 18 and a half or 19, all of a sudden she starts having new onset anxiety or depression. She goes to her doctor to talk about this.

• 1:25:17Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:25:18Speaker 01

  Because she's talked to her friends and all her friends say, oh, you've got to go and get on some Prozac or Zoloft. It really helps.

• 1:25:26Lewis Howes?

  Helps you sleep, helps you deal with anxiety.

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  So now she goes to the doctor and now the doctor prescribes her Zoloft. On top of the birth control pill, the Zoloft maybe kinda sorta works. But then three months later, now her sleep is really disrupted. Or she gained weight.

• 1:25:42Speaker 01

  Because of the Zoloft.

• 1:25:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Or she starts gaining weight.

• 1:25:47Speaker 01

  But now her sleep is disrupted. And so what does the doctor do? Well, let's put you on a sleeping pill now. Oh, my gosh. Let's put you on a sleeping pill so we can help you sleep. Oh. And now she's on three pills. All because somebody didn't recognize what the root cause was, which was a bad reaction to a medication. Yes. I cannot tell you how many people I've seen that this has happened. Really? My estimation is millions and millions of people Oh. are in that situation. Where they, again, they go on a pill for a good reason. Yeah. She, you know, she's eighteen, she's dating somebody. She wants to be protected. She wants to be responsible.

• 1:26:31Speaker 01

  She wants to make sure she's not gonna get pregnant. And that's a, our society would say that you're, she's being responsible. That's great. The boyfriend wants her to be on the pill. Everybody wants her to be on the pill. Everybody. So she's on the pill. And now it starts having adverse effects. Nobody even considers that possibility. And now she's going down this road where she's getting more and more meds. Developing more and more health conditions. Again, she started off a happy, healthy, thriving woman. In, in love, in a relationship.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  Now, now she's got depression, anxiety, whatever. She's got insomnia because of the side effect. Maybe she's starting to gain some weight. Now the boyfriend dumps her. And now what? This is. Now there's more medication to deal with the trauma and the stress.

• 1:27:24Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I know that if the boyfriend does dump her, then she gets even more depressed because of grief. And so what do we do? We increase the dose of your Zoloft. Or we start a new medicine. We have to add a medicine. We need to do something to treat that. And unfortunately, then, at that point, I've seen lives ruined from that point on. Because it's some-

• 1:27:47Lewis Howes?

  Some people might say, "Well, if I'm 18 and if I'm not on the pill and if I'm having sex, because that's my choice and I want to and I want to have connection or pleasure. And if we get pregnant, then my life is over because I'm 18 and I haven't lived my life. And I have a child now at 18." And so someone might say, "Well, I don't want my life to be over because I have a child too early." Or what I think is too early, based on society's standards.

• 1:28:10Speaker 01

  Well, and I am gonna endorse that. So I am all for responsible family planning. And that means planning when you are going to have a baby. I mean, 50%, for those of you who don't know, 50% of pregnancies in the United States are unplanned.

• 1:28:31Speaker 01

  More often than not with married couples, but they are unplanned.

• 1:28:34Lewis Howes?

  What's the other solution, then, to not getting pregnant besides being on the pill?

• 1:28:39Speaker 01

  So there are IUDs, that a man can wear a condom. I mean, there are all sorts of other contraceptive methods that people can use. And I'm not here to say there's a one-size-fits-all contraceptive method for everyone. But what I'm here to say is that, as you pointed out, understand that there are risks with contraception. That if you're taking a pill that is impacting your hormones, that impact not just the function of your ovaries, but also impact the function of your brain. So that's unequivocal. Like, I'm not making this up. Like-

• 1:29:17Lewis Howes?

  It's science.

• 1:29:18Speaker 01

  Like, let that sink in.

• 1:29:20Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:29:20Speaker 01

  This pill that I'm taking is not just affecting my ovaries, it's affecting my brain. Just let that sink in and then just be mindful of it. And if something's happening with your brain function over the next year or two, like you're developing new onset psychiatric symptoms. Be open to the possibility that could it be that

• 1:29:42Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  The contraceptive pill that I'm taking.

• 1:29:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  And be open to at least having that conversation with your healthcare provider. Really pushing them, don't, you know, don't let them dismiss this. This is a real thing. This pill is affecting my brain. And now all of a sudden, I'm having new onset psychiatric symptoms.

• 1:30:03Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:03Speaker 01

  You say that and most healthcare professionals will, if you put it together like that for them, most healthcare professionals will say, yeah, you're right. Let's, let's try a different pill or let's stop the pill. Maybe we could try an IUD or maybe you and your boyfriend could find some other.

• 1:30:18Lewis Howes?

  Wear condom or don't have sex or whatever.

• 1:30:19Speaker 01

  Or whatever. Maybe you, yeah, we can find a new solution.

• 1:30:25Speaker 01

  And I really would strongly push that the new solution should not be, let's add an antidepressant to the mix.

• 1:30:31Lewis Howes?

  I just don't think there's any benefit to that.

• 1:30:33Speaker 01

  It, it, I just see it go wrong too often.

• 1:30:37Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man. There's a lot, there's a lot we uncovered here today. I want, there's three things I want people to do. If you're, if you're watching on YouTube, I want you to leave a comment of the biggest aha moment or takeaway that you heard or watched during this conversation. Cause there's a lot of information here. But again, you've got three decades of being a clinical practitioner, but also a researcher, a teacher, all these different things. And you study it from the top experts in the world. So you're seeing the data and you're seeing real patients in real time. And you've seen the rise of these things, these mental health disorders or illnesses over the last three decades at astronomical rates. And there's a, a direct link to physical and mental health.

• 1:31:23Lewis Howes?

  There's a direct link to nutrition, the way you move for the lack of movement to your mental health as well. So I want people to leave a comment on the YouTube of their biggest takeaway, aha moment, et cetera. Second thing I want people to do, if you're listening or watching, I want you to share this with one friend who maybe has been struggling. Maybe they don't have some extreme bipolar disorder or something, but maybe they've just been. Mentally going through a hard time, whether it's overwhelmed, anxiety, stress, whatever it might be, send them this link and ask them their biggest takeaway as well. I think a great way to be a friend to someone is to pass them on good information and good, and good content that could hopefully open their minds to what's possible for their personal growth as well. So send this to one friend as well.

• 1:32:09Lewis Howes?

  Third thing I want people to do is I want them to get your book because you've got a book that dives in deep on all these different things called Brain Energy, A Revolutionary Breakthrough in Understanding Mental Health and Improving Treatment for Anxiety, Depression, OCD, PTSD, and More. And again, a lot of people are feeling these, these symptoms or these conditions these days, or they have early-stage symptoms of these things. And I want people to get the information and have the solution to reversing these things because you're not hopeless. It's not hopeless. You give a lot of people the tools on how to reverse a lot of these things. And yes, like you've said, there are extreme cases that may need

• 1:32:55Lewis Howes?

  extreme medical interventions. And we're not talking about that. We're talking about the other 90, 95% of people who are developing anxiety, overwhelm, stress, PTSD, ADHD, who are having these things that are starting to take over their life. But it sounds to me like a lot of them are reversible or manageable to not be consuming one's life. So I want people to get your book. I want them to follow you. Uh, brainenergy.com, chrispolmermd.com, also chrispolmermd on X and Instagram. And, and really send people this conversation in your life, your friends, your family members.

• 1:33:39Lewis Howes?

  And say, hey, I just was thinking about you and wanted to see if there's anything that you took away from this conversation. I think that's the best way people can support their friends and family as well. Is there anything else we can do to be of service to you, Chris?

• 1:33:52Speaker 01

  No, I mean, this is, this is really helpful. I want to thank you so much for, I mean, serving me is serving people who are struggling with their mental health.

• 1:34:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:01Speaker 01

  Because there are millions of them.

• 1:34:04Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:34:04Speaker 01

  So if we can help those people, I love the idea of sending this episode to a friend or family member. And then I would actually just add, follow up with them.

• 1:34:14Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:34:15Speaker 01

  Say, how are you doing? And when they, after they give you their polite answer, I'm fine.

• 1:34:18Lewis Howes?

  But how are you really doing?

• 1:34:19Speaker 01

  I'm fine. How are you really doing?

• 1:34:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:22Speaker 01

  I actually sent this to you because I really sometimes worry about you, or I've noticed this, whatever concern you had about them that made you send this to them. And ultimately, what that's about is I want you to just be a really good friend and resource to people. Even if you yourself are struggling with your own mental health, you can be a rock for someone else.

• 1:34:41Lewis Howes?

  Hundred percent.

• 1:34:42Speaker 01

  Just let them know, like, I'm here for you.

• 1:34:44Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:34:45Speaker 01

  I've got your back. We can get through this together. And that, in extreme cases, that can save a life.

• 1:34:55Lewis Howes?

  Yes, hundred percent. And I want to, I want to finish with this, Chris, because I, I want to acknowledge you for, again, three decades of research. And I love this in your book. You dedicate your book to your mother. I'm going to read it for people. I think it's beautiful. "To my mother, my futile attempts to save you from the ravages of mental illness, lit a fire in me that burns to this day. I'm sorry that I didn't figure this out in time to help you. May you rest in peace." And I just think that's a beautiful mission and purpose that you are living. Even though your mother, you weren't able to be a stand for her, but to be able to...

• 1:35:32Lewis Howes?

  In her memory, be of service to other people who have family members and friends who are struggling with extreme mental health disorders and feel like there's no hope. And so I really acknowledge you for being a stand for research, being a stand for science, to give people tools and putting yourself out there to hopefully save a lot more lives that are struggling and feel like there's no hope. So I'm really, really grateful for you, Chris, for being here today. Thank you. Thank you, Louis, for having me. Appreciate it. I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life, and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want

• 1:36:17Lewis Howes?

  to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneymeasbook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to the next episode on the School of Greatness. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes

• 1:36:58Lewis Howes?

  with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.