Lafitte’s Lost Loot: Jean Lafitte National Historical Park and Preserve

The Birthplace of Jazz, NOLA, The Big Easy - no matter how you know it, New Orleans is world renowned. While we visit today to toss beads and eat beignets, these streets - and swamps - were once home to one of the most mysterious pirates in history, Jean Lafitte. His smuggling operations throughout the South earned him quite the reputation in life, but the legends of his buried treasure solidified his story for generations after his death. To support the community of New Orleans in the wake of the New Year’s Day Tragedy, please visit United for New Orleans Relief FundFor a full list of our sources, visit npadpodcast.com/episodesFor the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials:Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdarkSupport the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to this week’s partners! Quince: Use our link to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Ollie: Use NPAD to get 60% off your first box of meals when you subscribe today. Boll and Branch: Use our link to get 15% off, plus free shipping on your first set of sheetsLume Deodorant: Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with@lumedeodorant and get 15% off with promo code NPAD at LumeDeodorant.com! #lumepod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:00Danielle LaRock?

  If I told you to take out a piece of paper and a pencil right now and instructed you to draw treasure, what would that drawing depict? For the vast majority of you, I'm venturing to guess it would look a lot like a wooden chest, lid a jar to reveal heaps of glimmering gold coins and sparkling jewels. You can't help but think of that image. It's been drilled into our minds since childhood and even now into adulthood. The biggest treasures ever discovered are splattered across photos of people beaming, holding up diamonds, silver bars, gold coins, and jewels brought up from the depths of the sea, unearthed from under feet of soil, or extracted from deep caverns. But don't be fooled. Just as in beauty, treasure

• 1:44Danielle LaRock?

  is in the eye of the beholder. And it can be just about anything that you find valuable. Finding a long-forgotten letter which holds the missing puzzle piece to a centuries-old riddle, or discovering a piece of history overlooked for years, may not necessarily make you a millionaire, but rather, your wealth would come from knowledge and finally understanding the answers to questions that have plagued the world for centuries.

• 2:13Danielle LaRock?

  Welcome to National Park After Dark.

• 2:36Danielle LaRock?

  Hey everybody. We just wanted to make a quick note before the episode begins. We originally recorded this episode on New Year's Day in the morning, and it was just a couple hours before we heard of the tragedy that occurred on New Year's Day in the early morning hours in New Orleans. And seeing as how this episode is heavily centered around New Orleans, we really wanted to make mention of the tragedy and just kind of highlight that our thoughts are with everybody right now as we're recording this. It's January 2nd, news is still unfolding of the extent of injuries and deaths, and it's just, our hearts are breaking and we're just really wanted to make sure

• 3:20Danielle LaRock?

  that we, we said something before the episode place.

• 3:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes, so keep that in mind. This is a lighthearted episode that we didn't realize the heaviness that was happening in New Orleans at the time. So our heart goes out to everyone who's involved, and we're definitely paying close attention to what's happening. And I know Danielle, you saw some resources that we can use to help people who are going through this right now.

• 3:46Danielle LaRock?

  I was just looking up at some things that, some resources if you would like to help. If you're in the New Orleans area, I know this is going to be coming out kind of in the weeks after. So I'm not sure if there's any blood donation drives that are going on, but I know that's always needed across the board. But specifically, the New Orleans Foundation has been asking for blood donation. So if you are able to do that, that's great. If you're not in New Orleans or are unable to donate blood, the Greater New Orleans Foundation has joined the City of New Orleans and fellow community partners to launch the New Orleans New Year's Day Tragedy Fund, which is a fund that's going to assist the victims and survivors of the 2025 New Year's Day Mass Casualty Incident.

• 4:31Danielle LaRock?

  And I will link that in the episode description. So if you would like to donate anything from $5 and up, anything is helpful. So we just wanted to highlight that and just say we're being mindful of what's unfolding, even though during the actual episode recording, we were unaware.

• 4:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes, and with that, we'll get on with the episode.

• 4:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hello, hello, everybody. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. We're so happy to have you all here this week.

• 5:02Danielle LaRock?

  We are, and we are here with a treasure story.

• 5:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Ooh, treasure.

• 5:07Danielle LaRock?

  It's not like the typical forest fun type of treasure, but it is worthy of a story, I believe. And if anybody is wondering why Jean Lafitte sounds familiar in the description and in the title, is because we've talked about the guy a little bit in Hugh Glass's episode in two, episode 216, 216?

• 5:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  216. Okay.

• 5:35Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 5:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  I remember you talking about this guy.

• 5:37Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, so it turns out he has a whole national park named after him, so he definitely has a worthy story. What a guy is right, and that actually leads me to my first little like sweeping, not a warning, just like kind of a heads up type of thing, that just as with Hugh Glass's story, this story is going to be kind of like, I understand there are probably 10 to 12 versions of the truth for different aspects of his life and events that we're going to talk about. If I was to go over every version, we would be here for a week, and I want to have dinner at some point today.

• 6:16Danielle LaRock?

  So we're going to just go with one version, and I chose the version of his story that's kind of the most accepted among historians at this point in time.

• 6:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 6:28Danielle LaRock?

  So don't come at me if you heard another.

• 6:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, sit down, settle in, we're about to hear a story that may or may not be true.

• 6:36Danielle LaRock?

  Right.

• 6:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  But we're going to take it as truth. I believe you. I think you're right. I'm ready. I want to hear a treasure story. I want to hear about Jean Lafitte. I'm ready for it.

• 6:47Danielle LaRock?

  Well, we're on the same page. All right. So do we have anything else to say?

• 6:52Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know.

• 6:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, I don't think so.

• 6:54Danielle LaRock?

  All right. Well, we're here for a story and that's what you're gonna get. In the swamps and bayous of southern Louisiana, the story of Jean Lafitte is legendary. Equal parts history and myth. Not much is known about Jean Lafitte, including if that was truly his birth name or an alias that he adopted later on in life. Because for the first 20 or so years of his life, we don't have a lot of record. We have no accurate record of his birth and very little documentation of his early life. So it's thought that he was born in France or in present day Haiti in the 1780s. He may or may not have gone on to military school in the West Indies.

• 7:37Danielle LaRock?

  And perhaps he even served under Napoleon. But what we do know is that he and his brother Pierre, or maybe his business partner.

• 7:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  What? We don't even know who his brother is?

• 7:50Danielle LaRock?

  I wrote brother because that is what most of the sources I read.

• 7:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Brother and business partner?

• 7:57Danielle LaRock?

  Slash business partner? Yeah. Let's go with that. Yeah. Well, we do know.

• 8:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Adding new question marks to the story already?

• 8:05Danielle LaRock?

  I'm like three sentences in, we're like, we're not sure.

• 8:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Things up.

• 8:09Danielle LaRock?

  Truly. Okay. So we do know that he and Pierre arrived in New Orleans in the early 1800s and set up shop. They chose the city with intention. Acquired by the United States in 1803 as part of the Louisiana Purchase, New Orleans served as a gateway to the Caribbean trade. And the brothers were in the trading business. They went to work almost immediately in shady dealings, brokering stolen and smuggled goods. But in 1807, with the advent of the embargo act, which restricted US exports, they really stepped up and into the smuggling life even further by becoming pirates themselves. So.

• 8:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Pirate story.

• 8:51Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, this is definitely a pirate story. Well, so beforehand, just to set the scene a little bit. In New Orleans, this point in time, there's a lot, because of this act, the embargo. embargo act, they were struggling to get goods into the city. And so what Pierre and Jean Lafitte were doing was basically taking stolen goods and things like that that were coming in from different avenues, other pirates essentially, and selling them and brokering them. But now they're like, hey, why are we just not doing this piracy ourself and just kind of cutting out extra people?

• 9:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Smart.

• 9:28Danielle LaRock?

  The process.

• 9:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Good business model.

• 9:30Danielle LaRock?

  Yes, truly. The embargo act, which was enacted to punish other countries originally, primarily France and Great Britain, ultimately hurt the US more the most and resulted in widespread smuggling operations, especially here in New Orleans. The economy was hurting. At the time of their operations, goods were scarce in the city and residents were desperate for what the Lafitte smuggled in. Jean Lafitte acquired some ships and began his own operation.

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• 10:32Danielle LaRock?

  He, his brother, and hundreds of men that they hired to work for them, set up headquarters in Barataria, situated just south of New Orleans where the Gulf of Mexico opens up. It was, again, a very strategic spot. They picked this with, again, intention. There are a couple islands around this area, most specifically present-day Grand Terre Island, but then known as Barataria, just to keep things straight for everybody. And that's where Lafitte and his men kind of set up shop and headquarters. It sits just at the mouth of the bay and along a narrow pass that winds through a smattering of islands that ships were required to pass through.

• 11:15Danielle LaRock?

  So they just kind of hunker down there so they could intercept ships and basically steal all of their things.

• 11:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  They had a plan.

• 11:25Danielle LaRock?

  By holding that.

• 11:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like a man with a plan.

• 11:26Danielle LaRock?

  They do it. Men with a plan.

• 11:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 11:28Danielle LaRock?

  We know.

• 11:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's all we ask. Have a good plan.

• 11:31Danielle LaRock?

  Please, I'm begging you. Okay.

• 11:36Danielle LaRock?

  By holding that spot, Lafitte and his men were able to easily intercept and plunder vessels, stealing all of their goods on board. Everything from silks, furniture, sugar, tobacco, alcohol, spices, etc. From there, the goods would be placed in warehouses until they could be transported and sold on the black market. And these black markets were essentially just a series of different secret locations throughout New Orleans, in the bayous, in the forested areas, just kind of undercover and out of the eye of law enforcement. And one of these locations wasn't so tucked away at all, but it acted as a front.

• 12:18Danielle LaRock?

  So Jean and Pierre had a blacksmith shop right on Bourbon Street, which, as you could guess, was essentially just, yeah, just like a front for their operations. It was not a blacksmith shop through and through.

• 12:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  I don't know why this reminds me of a totally not related to this story, but there's this pizza shop near my dad's house, and it's been a running joke.

• 12:41Danielle LaRock?

  I love this story.

• 12:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's been a running joke forever that it is a front for something else because, I mean, I guess the pizza shop has been there before I existed, and my dad is always like, "I've never seen a car at this pizza shop in the entirety," and he grew up in this area, too. I don't like call out the pizza shop in case it's not a drug smuggling operation. But it's just been this running joke, like, "How do they stay in business? How are they there when not a single person is ever in their parking lot? There's never someone inside." My dad ordered pizza there like once, and he said it was, there was no one there and the pizza wasn't very good. So it's like...

• 13:26Danielle LaRock?

  Wait. I thought you were going somewhere else. Wasn't there a pizza shop that was selling coke?

• 13:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, yeah, that was in college. That one I can talk about.

• 13:34Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, different pizza shop.

• 13:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Different pizza shop. I guess it's a money laundering ring around pizza shops. But yeah, my

• 13:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  when I went to college, we had this Pizza Hop. It was called Pizza Hop. It was called P-Hop. And it was the famous like late night pizza. Everyone after you'd been drinking all night would show up. It was open till 3 a.m. Get a slice of pizza. But I had a roommate that worked there for one night and one night only. And she, the owner, was doing cocaine in the back. And then it was just kind of a mess. And then years later, someone who I had been dating at the time told me, and he was a police officer, told me that it got busted because they found out that she was smuggling cocaine in the flower sacks at the pizza shop. And they were about

• 14:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  to bust her. And she just fled. And I don't believe she was ever caught. But she would have been arrested. But it is not a pizza shop anymore.

• 14:39Danielle LaRock?

  An NPAD fan? So we know what you did.

• 14:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Right in a Trail Tales episode. And we'll keep you anonymous.

• 14:47Danielle LaRock?

  Yes. Yeah, that's why I thought you were going with that originally. But I think there's always somebody like, in most towns, there's a, there's some sort of business that is like, how is this an operation?

• 15:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 15:02Danielle LaRock?

  I've never seen movement here going on. And yet, it's like a community staple. It's always there. Maybe it's, yeah, like a laundering, money laundering scheme.

• 15:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm just gonna say, I'm not a snitch. So if you want to tell us about your money laundering schemes, I won't tell anyone. I want to know what you, your business model is.

• 15:26Danielle LaRock?

  Just say like, you can write to us, but just say not for the podcast, your eyes only. Some people do that. People write in about things that they prefer not to be shared. And it's just for us. And

• 15:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  We don't share them.

• 15:38Danielle LaRock?

  So it's a safe space is what we're trying to say.

• 15:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  We don't tell.

• 15:42Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 15:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  We're here for illegal activities.

• 15:46Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. So da, da, da. Okay, so they're on Bourbon Street. We're aware it's likely a front. Some historians argue that his operation may be the first organized crime syndicate in US history. At the peak of success here, he owned 100 ships and was in charge of over 1,000 men, including free men of color and runaway enslaved people. His warehouse in Barataria that held his stockpiles of amassed goods were worth millions of dollars in early 1800s currency. And at one point, he became one of the 10 most wealthy men in America. So he was doing the damn thing. Yeah, he was. Is what I'm trying to say. He's a boss, babe.

• 16:30Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, truly. It's important here to point out a couple of things, and this is a little bit more serious. So Jean-Lafitte is a bit of an enigma, and history tends to romanticize him quite a bit. Especially in my research, I was like, looking up all, or seeing all of these nicknames for him and just how he has come to be remembered. He's widely remembered as this gentleman pirate, or kind of like a Robin Hood type of figure. And there are many accounts of him and his men acting civilly when looting various ships, treating the crew well, and returning their vessels back to them after they had stolen everything

• 17:12Danielle LaRock?

  and commandeered what they wanted. So it's like, they're still stealing, and they're still doing illegal activities, but they're not slaughtering people, is essentially what I'm trying to say here. And going back to the Robin Hood feel, parts to his story, stealing from the wealthy and giving to the needy of New Orleans was kind of where that came from. However, he wasn't just stealing goods, because it's important to remember these ships weren't just transporting sugar and cotton, they were also trafficking human beings. According to the Smithsonian Magazine, the city of New Orleans was the largest slave market in the United States, ultimately serving as the site for the purchase and sale of more than 135,000 people.

• 17:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow.

• 17:57Danielle LaRock?

  Technically, the importation of enslaved people was outlawed in the year 1808, but it did not end domestic slave trading, effectively creating a federally protected internal market for human beings. And as with any law, loopholes were found and Lafitte utilized them. He and his men would transport the people that they captured and sold them in slave markets. So, let's just keep, bear that in mind.

• 18:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Not the boss babe that I, I talked about before. I feel like I was just romanticizing him. I'm like, yeah, he's doing his own thing. And now, he's not as cool now that he's trafficking human beings. That's, that's not cool.

• 18:36Danielle LaRock?

  Right. And it's just, again, like with the whole mixed bag, like, as I said earlier, he employed freed people, freed people of color and like, he, it had nothing again, he wasn't, I don't know, he just, he had, he was a businessman through and through. And at the time, enslaved people were unfortunately a commodity that were viewed as a commodity that he took advantage, I mean, he was stealing everything and anything that held value. And at the time, enslaved people held value.

• 19:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Had any regard towards.

• 19:11Danielle LaRock?

  So he had no regard. Correct.

• 19:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  I mean, he is a pirate. You can't say he's like this grand wonderful person. He's a pirate. So.

• 19:21Danielle LaRock?

  But when you look into his story, like, sometimes depending on where you're reading and what you're reading, I don't want to say that that's left out entirely, but it's also not included in a lot either. So.

• 19:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, he kind of feels like maybe he's getting, he's being thought of as like a vigilante, but he's actually not just doing all good.

• 19:43Danielle LaRock?

  Right.

• 19:47Danielle LaRock?

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• 21:07Danielle LaRock?

  Through the years, Lafitte's knowledge of the swamps aided him in quick getaways when the law came knocking. Him and his men skillfully used the winding canals and marshy bayous of the swamps to sneakily transport their stolen goods into the city and to evade capture. Typically aboard P-Rogues, a type of small boat similar to a canoe but crafted specifically to navigate the marshes and swamps of the south. And I just have to note here, it's spelt really closely to the word pierogi.

• 21:40Danielle LaRock?

  Which is like a dumpling. And I'm like, wait, am I reading this correctly? And I hope I pronounce it correctly, because I tried, I'm like, don't say it, don't say.

• 21:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Don't say parokey.

• 21:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  He'll never let it down.

• 21:54Danielle LaRock?

  I had never. They would often use paddles to navigate these boats, but what was most popular were push poles, which is a better way for shallow water navigation, usually choked with thick vegetation. On many occasions, he was able to make quick getaways. And on several occasions, the officials who were sent after him wound up captured, wounded, or killed by his own men. He didn't always successfully evade his pursuers, though, and he and his brother slash business partner Pierre, found themselves arrested and locked up on more than one occasion. However, they were always sneaky sneaky and were able to make bail and then skip out on bail or escape from jail entirely.

• 22:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Outlaws on the run.

• 22:40Danielle LaRock?

  New Orleans Governor Claremont was getting fed up with Lafitte's organization. It was a little murky there for a while. Government officials did reap the benefits of some of the items that Lafitte's men were smuggling in. Like, we're talking alcohol and luxury items that maybe were scarce before his operation was in full swing. So for a while, they kind of turned a blind eye to some of the operation. And because they're like, hey, we're, we get bourbon out of this. And not to mention like tobacco and cigars and things like that.

• 23:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  They don't care.

• 23:12Danielle LaRock?

  Right. But eventually, they couldn't ignore the far reaching disregard for the law. It is said that the governor began posting wanted signs across all of New Orleans for Lafitte's capturing, offering a reward of $500. And then, in response, under the cover of night, Lafitte had his men go to those signs. And instead of ripping them down, he put up his own signs, offering a $1,500 reward for the capture of the governor.

• 23:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  So that is hilarious.

• 23:42Danielle LaRock?

  Cat and mouse type of game. What, Tom and Jerry or whatever?

• 23:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  That is funny.

• 23:46Danielle LaRock?

  However, the businessman turned wanted pirate under Went another transformation in 1814 to that of an unlikely patriot. Tensions were running really high between America and Great Britain at the time, as the two nations were in the middle of the War of 1812. For the most part, up until then, the fighting for this war took place on the east coast of the United States. But in 1814, the British sought the help of Lafitte in hopes of gaining access into the bay. And they wanted to stage attacks from the Gulf of Mexico to ultimately take the city of New Orleans. And remember, he has a strategic spot on the bay. He has intimate knowledge of this area where they could potentially get British, British forces

• 24:32Danielle LaRock?

  up through the swamps into New Orleans and stage a surprise attack and take the city, which is a huge stronghold that they wanted control of. Seeing the value of his strategic position, the British offered him a deal. Thousands of dollars, a full pardon, and British citizenship if he and his men aided their efforts in gaining access to the Gulf, past the islands and through the bayous and into the city. Despite this tempting offer, Lafitte stalled for time. He may have been a pirate, but his loyalty did reside with America. So he attempted to warn American authorities of this incoming attack. And not only did they not believe him, in fact, Andrew Jackson referred to him as a hellish bandit.

• 25:17Danielle LaRock?

  They actually attacked him at the, his base in Barataria.

• 25:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, man, he's saying, I'm telling the truth.

• 25:25Danielle LaRock?

  He's like, I'm just trying to.

• 25:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm just trying to help.

• 25:27Danielle LaRock?

  You're about to get caught. Okay?

• 25:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, just give me a warning.

• 25:32Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, just trying to give you a heads up here. But when the British pulled up and American forces were like, oh, okay, so this is actually real. Jackson changed his mind on Lafitte's offer. Legend has it that Jackson was quick to change his mind and met up with Lafitte in secret in a coffee shop within the city of New Orleans. In need of supplies, manpower, and equally important men with knowledge of the landscape to win this important battle, he turned towards the Baratarians for all of the above. In exchange for their help in the battle, Lafitte and his men would receive a full pardon, which was great since they were

• 26:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wanted.

• 26:13Danielle LaRock?

  Very wanted men and had broken lots of laws.

• 26:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sure, I'd love to be forgiven. Thank you.

• 26:18Danielle LaRock?

  The deal was made and the Baratarians joined the 4,000 other men on the front lines just south of New Orleans. Within 30 minutes, the British were down about 2,000 men to the Americans about 20 men. The battle was won and Lafitte and his men were granted their pardons. But as the old saying goes, pirates go on pirate. And it didn't take long for Lafitte and his men.

• 26:45Danielle LaRock?

  You've never heard it?

• 26:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  No.

• 26:46Danielle LaRock?

  That's weird.

• 26:49Danielle LaRock?

  It didn't take long for Lafitte and his men to make their way back to the swamps and resume operations as usual. While his efforts and assistance undoubtedly changed the tide of the war in America's favor, he was not permitted to keep his operations going on Grand Tare Island. They're like, hey, we like you and thanks for doing that, but.

• 27:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  You're still breaking the law, like a lot.

• 27:11Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, you're still being bad. So in 1817, he moved west to present day Galveston Island. At the time, still flip flopping between Spanish and Mexican rule. The 30 mile long, two mile wide island home to deer, ocean birds, and thick with prairie grass and marshes was also a favorite hunting and camping ground of the Karanqua peoples. According to the East Texas Historical Association, Lafitte's presence on the island was met with some mixed emotions from the indigenous peoples. Lafitte's men traded with the Karanquas and Lafitte was known to be welcoming of them, invited them into his home, and they aided each other in rebuilding damaged settlements after a particularly devastating

• 27:55Danielle LaRock?

  hurricane that hit the area. And there was at least even two documented marriages between the two groups, which I thought was really interesting as well. But the amiable relations didn't last after Lafitte's men kidnapped several Karanqua women and a battle, a really large battle ensued, which resulted in death and injuries on both sides. And what resulted was a tainted relationship between the two groups. Their relationship just never recovered to what it was when they first arrived.

• 28:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  And murdering each other.

• 28:29Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. The new pirate colony dubbed Campeche was another huge success for Lafitte. They took over the entire island. There was about 2,000 people who ended up living on it. And Lafitte himself built a grand giant host hotel home for himself. It was two stories high, was painted red and was surrounded by a moat. And he named this Maison Rouge.

• 28:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Feel like all big, big up criminals just want a moat. Like you look at Pablo Escobar, he had his moat with hippos in it.

• 29:02Danielle LaRock?

  I thought you were gonna say, I thought you were gonna say, um, every like grand house has a name. Like it's dubbed something.

• 29:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, I was focusing on the moat, but I do like a house with a name.

• 29:15Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I do too. I don't know if I'll ever own a home that is deserved of a name, but yeah. Like, do you have a name for your house?

• 29:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, I've never thought to name it. I have considered a moat though.

• 29:27Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 29:30Danielle LaRock?

  You do have some outdoor ponds that you could just connect.

• 29:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  We kind of almost have a, it's not really a moat, but between the road and my yard, there's this big rain drainage area and it's deep. It's like three feet deep and probably like five feet wide. So between my yard and the road, there is kind of a moat in the rainy season.

• 29:53Danielle LaRock?

  There was a huge moat when I was there and you trapped me and it was a state of emergency.

• 29:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  That is true.

• 29:59Danielle LaRock?

  I've never seen anything like it.

• 30:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah. You, you came up to visit me while we had the historic flooding and my entire road washed out. And we actually couldn't leave.

• 30:08Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, trapped.

• 30:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Trapped, but there's something to say about a moat. You'll never forget my house.

• 30:13Danielle LaRock?

  That's true.

• 30:23Danielle LaRock?

  So back to this colony, Campeche. At its height, it was pulling in about $2 million annually, which today would be roughly $40 million. He got into hot water though, after launching an attack on an American ship. So they're raiding.

• 30:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  Not on the American side anymore.

• 30:41Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, they're like, oops, uh, kinda messed up on that one.

• 30:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  My bad.

• 30:45Danielle LaRock?

  And after he did that, him and his men did that, the US Navy got involved and drove him away from the island. Campeche was burnt to the ground and Lafitte sailed away once again to Central America. For a very long time, this is kind of where our knowledge of Lafitte ended. Following him boarding the ship, or his ship, I should say, called The Pride, and sailing away from a smoldering Campeche in 1820. Rumors about what his next move was, was, were all over the place. But at the time, it was largely accepted that he worked as a privateer along the Mexican coast and down into Central America for a handful of years.

• 31:28Danielle LaRock?

  And just a little bit of a side note, do you know the difference between a pirate and a privateer?

• 31:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  I do not.

• 31:34Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. So I just wanted to point it out. Okay. So pirates steal and plunder any vessels, steal, steal the cargo and sell the goods elsewhere illegally. Privateers were hired by different governments to basically do the same thing for enemy vessels. So whether they're military vessels or not.

• 31:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Legal piracy.

• 31:54Danielle LaRock?

  Right. Piracy on paper with like a, a permission slip essentially.

• 31:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  The government likes to do that.

• 31:59Danielle LaRock?

  They do. And as a hired privateer, a person would receive a letter called a letter of marque, which essentially made their piracy legal. So they could just show their letter to somebody.

• 32:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hi, we're legally allowed to rob you, so.

• 32:13Danielle LaRock?

  So anyway, he may or may not have been working as a privateer in Central America when suddenly more rumors started cropping up about him, but this time about his death. Stories that he was mortally wounded in battle and was buried at sea, died of a fever and was buried in an unmarked grave in the Yucatan, and more popped up in newspaper accounts from Haiti to Cuba and beyond. There are even various locations that claim to have his final resting place and that he was interred sometime in the early 1820s. And by and large, most people accepted that Lafitte likely died at, around this time, and that was kind of just. The end of his story, it just fizzled out and for the, for most people, they just kind of

• 32:56Danielle LaRock?

  accepted that. And that is all the way until the 2010s. So going from 1820 to 2010, he's alive. Um, when two women from North Carolina discovered something extraordinary in the footnote of a book. Retired English professor, Dr. Ashley Oliphant, had been interested in pirates since she was a child, finding particular fascination with Lafitte and his operations during the last hurrah of piracy, which had seen their golden years come and go prior to his time. So for another thing that Lafitte is remembered for is kind of like the last great pirate because he was in operations towards the end of when piracy was really in full swing.

• 33:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 33:37Danielle LaRock?

  So she was in the early stages of collecting research for writing a biography on Lafitte, when she decided to look into one of North Carolina's local legends that may have had a possible connection to him. So she was just kind of sniffing out every lead, making sure she was thorough for her biography. And what she thought initially would just be a side note or a footnote in her own book, merely a passing mention, but one to be covered just for the sake of being thorough, quickly took a turn. What started as a planned footnote in her book, became the entire book. And what they have discovered may change much of what we believed to have happened to Lafitte after all. Enlisting the help of her mother, Beth Yarborough, the pair embarked on a long

• 34:19Danielle LaRock?

  journey to dusty basement archives, historic societies, and prestigious research libraries across the country in search of documents, letters, newspapers, pretty much anything and everything that could provide a paper trail for their theory that Lafitte faked his own death.

• 34:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  I mean, it makes sense already. Just he's wanted, he's on the run.

• 34:41Danielle LaRock?

  He's a little sneaky snake and he's intelligent.

• 34:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, he is.

• 34:44Danielle LaRock?

  He knows what he's doing. Mm hmm. And there is a lot of supporting evidence for this theory, so much so, you know, they, you know, wrote a whole book about it. Uh, so I'm not going to go into extreme detail, but I did want to highlight a couple of the key points here and some of the supporting evidence, just to To bring some context to this theory and why they believe it to be true. In short, the mother daughter duo believes that Lafitte went into hiding for several years in Cuba before taking on the alias of Lorenzo Ferrer, making his way to Mississippi and finally to North Carolina where he died in 1875, which would have made him elderly, well into his 90s, not dying in 1820. Or the 1820s, I should say.

• 35:28Danielle LaRock?

  In their research, they came across a series of letters dated in 1829, years after the rumor of his death have already kind of come and gone. And the letters were between two men. The first was Lafitte's lawyer and the other was an old friend of Lafitte's.

• 35:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 35:45Danielle LaRock?

  One was based in Cuba and the other was based in Washington DC. And in these letter exchanges, they speak of a man that was currently being harbored in Cuba who needed assistance getting back into the United States. A man that they never referred to by name, but in code as Maison Rouge. Do you remember what Maison Rouge was?

• 36:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Remind me.

• 36:06Danielle LaRock?

  The name of his home in Campuchia.

• 36:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Right. I was so focused on the moat, I forgot.

• 36:12Danielle LaRock?

  Right. Yeah, the moat was distracting and worthy of discussion.

• 36:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 36:16Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 36:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, so the lawyer knows he's alive, but.

• 36:22Danielle LaRock?

  It's like a lawyer and an old friend. And they're talking about somebody who's in Cuba. He had connections to Cuba beforehand, wanted to get back to the States. So anyway, so for brevity's sake, I'm skipping around a bit. So I'm sorry for the whiplash here, but we're going to fast forward to 1830 and Lorenzo Ferrer pops up on the Mississippi census one day as a middle aged man with no record of that name in any documentation anywhere in the United States prior. So this is what they think his alias is. And now all of a sudden, he exists. He exists and he's on the census and he's like in his 40s or 50s. And so they're like, yeah, what is going on here? Assuming that this was Lafitte, he lived under the radar for years.

• 37:07Danielle LaRock?

  At this point in time, he didn't join any churches or social. Circles and generally just laid low. He worked by all accounts, following the letter of the law. And at the time, purchasing and selling both land and enslaved people. From there, he made some very influential friends and moved north to North Carolina and settled there for the rest of his life, where he behaved a little bit differently. He was very visible in the public eye, likely feeling comfortable in his powerful circle of friends and being away from where many different people may potentially recognize him. Because where he was in Mississippi was still in the South. And he operated all throughout the South during his piracy or time of piracy.

• 37:50Danielle LaRock?

  So he maybe was feeling emboldened by being somewhere completely new.

• 37:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 37:55Danielle LaRock?

  And surrounded by powerful people.

• 37:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  And there's no photos of him at this time?

• 38:00Danielle LaRock?

  No.

• 38:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 38:01Danielle LaRock?

  No. He, and I keep saying he, but we're, we're now assuming that Lorenzo Ferrer and Jean Lafitte are this one and the same.

• 38:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 38:11Danielle LaRock?

  So, he was a founding member of a local Masonic lodge, purchased property, became politically active. He married, took mistresses, may or may not have had children. And interestingly, arrived with money, but never worked a day for the three decades that he lived there. And he died a very, very wealthy man. Ferrer left a very detailed will, leaving lots of money to various people and is currently buried under a marker that he designed himself directly next to a woman named Louisa in Lincolnon, North Carolina. And Louisa spent part of her life enslaved under Lorenzo Ferrer's ownership and was also his mistress. So that's why they're buried side by side.

• 38:53Danielle LaRock?

  Dr. Oliphant and Ms. Yarborough actually dedicate their entire book, which they titled Jean Lafitte Revealed: Unraveling One of America's Longest Running Mysteries, to Louisa as they felt, quote, "She had no voice during her lifetime, but across 200 years and from her grave, she was able to lift a beautiful hand and point out the link between Lorenzo Ferrer and Jean Lafitte," end quote. And for clarity, she inadvertently did that by Being present in various documents that connected the alias Lorenzo Ferrer and Jean Lafitte. So she was kind of like this link that really pulled the thread between the two of them.

• 39:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Solidified that they were the same person.

• 39:35Danielle LaRock?

  The connection. Yep. They were also shown during their research, a sword that was forged in the 1810s at the Masonic Lodge that Ferrer helped found by some of the current members. And they said, hey, you want to check out, because they went to this lodge and knowing that Ferrer was one of its founding members and just wanted to look at any of their records or archives to see if they could find anything of note. And while they were there, some of the members were like, hey, we have this really cool relic essentially. And it was this big sword and it was hanging above one of the fireplaces in the main building. And they're like, just thought you would think it's cool and it's from the period of time you're researching. So, you know.

• 40:15Danielle LaRock?

  So they're looking at it and upon closer inspection, the ladies discovered something absolutely remarkable. The letters J N Lafitte were found etched into the sword scabbard. And it was so faint that no one had noticed. Like they're really looking at it. And to the members there, they're like, this has literally been here for hundreds of years. We never have thought.

• 40:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  To look at it that hard.

• 40:40Danielle LaRock?

  To examine it. Yeah. The sword was sent off for expert analysis by Colonial Williamsburg, the Smithsonian, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and numerous museums throughout the state of North Carolina, which culminated in the result that the inscription was as old as the sword, meaning someone didn't write it in. I don't know, as like a prank or later on.

• 41:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like a hundred years later.

• 41:04Danielle LaRock?

  It was etched by hand and dates back to the early 1800s. The other interesting piece, through their years of research, the women knew that Jean Lafitte, a meticulous record keeper. So they have seen numerous documents that he has signed and dated and been had a hand in. He never wrote his name completely. It was always written J N Lafitte. So.

• 41:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, there it is. It's his sword.

• 41:34Danielle LaRock?

  And it's like, okay, so this is a lodge that allegedly Ferrer founded. Jean Lafitte was supposed to be dead.

• 41:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Right. And now Jean Lafitte's sword is in his lodge.

• 41:45Danielle LaRock?

  Yes.

• 41:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Coincidence?

• 41:47Danielle LaRock?

  I think not. Then in 1865, as the Union Army was getting ready to pass through the area, Ferrer requested a friend assist him in bringing some of his valuable items to the courthouse basement for some safekeeping. According to this friend, he helped Ferrer move three heavy trunks of valuables to a vault in the courthouse basement. As they were turning to leave, this friend caught sight of Ferrer opening one of the lids of the trunk, which was filled to the brim with gold coins. Ferrer requested his friend take a scoop of the coins as payment, and thanks for his help. He's like, yeah, take a handful.

• 42:24Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, for it, take some, I have plenty to share.

• 42:26Danielle LaRock?

  It's like, sir, why do you have three chests of gold coins?

• 42:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Why do you have a treasure chest like a pirate?

• 42:34Danielle LaRock?

  Are you a pirate?

• 42:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's like, no.

• 42:36Danielle LaRock?

  Yes or no?

• 42:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Why would you? Blink twice.

• 42:40Danielle LaRock?

  Not only did Ferrer and Lafitte's physical resemblance bear striking similarities, there is a ton of supportive information from physical objects, written accounts, personal letters, etc., that reinforce that Lorenzo Ferrer is Jean Lafitte, and Jean Lafitte is Lorenzo Ferrer. And like I said, Dr. Alafon and Beth Yarborough present and discuss this at length in their book. So if you would like to know more about this connection and this mystery, it's less about Jean Lafitte's earlier life and more about this mystery of if he did truly live beyond his death rumors. And again, I didn't read it in full, but I did listen to several lengthy presentations that the two had given about their book.

• 43:24Danielle LaRock?

  They went on a press tour, and it was during COVID. So thankfully, a lot of them are recorded and on YouTube.

• 43:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, cool.

• 43:30Danielle LaRock?

  So there's like lots of lectures out there online that they give about their book. And it's all very, um, in the process that they went through researching it. And it just gave me National Treasure vibes.

• 43:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay.

• 43:42Danielle LaRock?

  Like the movie.

• 43:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  I like that.

• 43:43Danielle LaRock?

  So if you-

• 43:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Real life National Treasure.

• 43:46Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, it might be up your alley. And I'll link some of the more interesting talks in the episode description for you guys. But it did remind me, I made a note in my notes here to say this, because while, it's kind of off subject, but kind of not. And while I was in the process of this research and taking Instagram breaks, as one does, I came across this page, and it is so cool. And I just wanted to mention it during this episode specifically because it's a history-based episode, and this is a very like geeky thing. To like, but there is this page called Lectures on Tap and I am absolutely obsessed with this page.

• 44:25Danielle LaRock?

  So basically, unfortunately, it only is in operation right now in New York City, but they're looking to expand. So there's hope for us. But basically what, what they are is they're these pop up events, like ticketed pop up events where professors and experts of all different kinds go to different bars. And they give you a 45 minute lecture on different things, like their area of expertise. So you can go out to a bar and have a drink and meanwhile, listen to this presentation given by this expert. And they have, it's not just history. They have, I actually went on their website and I wrote down some of the lectures that they've done. Because they're really cool. So some of the subjects include the history of cannabis,

• 45:10Danielle LaRock?

  the lost subways of North America, modern Christmas, evolutionary psychology, spiritualism and the illustrious Fox sisters, wine and cinema, the science of happiness, tales from the Milky Way. Like you get it. There's just so many different subjects. Right. And it's like, you just want to go out and have a drink and also learn something new. It's just so fun.

• 45:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  What a sophisticated way to go to the bar.

• 45:35Danielle LaRock?

  Right. It makes me feel like it gives vibes of, I'm going to go to the bar alone and have a glass of wine and bring a book.

• 45:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bring a book and read a lecture, read a lecture, listen to a lecture.

• 45:46Danielle LaRock?

  Listen to a lecture. But anyway, so I thought it was a really amazing idea. And I really hope that they expand and maybe like come into Boston. Cause I would totally go to one and I don't know, Lectures on Tap people, if you're listening, please reach out to me. I love you.

• 46:08Danielle LaRock?

  And to wrap up, you know, what's a pirate story without treasure? You know, like we talked about gold coins like once, which is not enough.

• 46:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Show me the treasure.

• 46:17Danielle LaRock?

  So what about it? You know, where is this long lost treasure that everyone talks about when you're talking about Jean Lafitte? So if Jean Lafitte really did indeed live until 90s rumors of his stash treasure were already running rampant when he was still very alive and well.

• 46:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  That must have been comical.

• 46:35Danielle LaRock?

  Right? It's like if he did have some, they're like, he could kind of keep tabs on what's going on. Like if somebody was getting close, he could have.

• 46:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  He's at a bar and someone's telling him about this legend of a treasure and they're like bringing up all these ideas. And he's just like, oh yeah, that sounds wild. Like, I don't know, where could it be?

• 46:55Danielle LaRock?

  Sounds like quite the guy.

• 46:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, sounds like a.

• 46:58Danielle LaRock?

  Tell me more about how much you love him. Almost immediately following Lafitte's quote unquote death, tales of secret locations where he stashed caches of treasure, gold coins, expensive goods, et cetera, for safekeeping popped up all along the coast of Texas and up into the swamps and marshes of Louisiana. Lafitte had warehouses for storage, of course, which, as we discussed earlier, held millions of dollars worth of goods. But as any good pirate knows, you never keep all your eggs in one basket. And there are accounts, mainly by word of mouth, of various places that he himself or his men that he had hired buried hordes of his wealth along the smuggling routes

• 47:41Danielle LaRock?

  that they used to use as transportation through the bayous and throughout the swamps of Louisiana. And for as many years these whispers have persisted and potential locations these reported stockpiled treasures may lay buried. There are just as many treasure seekers dedicating their lives to finding them. One of the first documented accounts that pops up is from a book published in 1930 called Coronado's Children: Tales of Lost Mines and Buried Treasure of the Southwest. In this book, a New Orleans printer referred to as Newell spent years searching for this treasure and ultimately died doing so. The story goes that Newell's father had befriended an old sailor who, upon his impending death,

• 48:25Danielle LaRock?

  gave him an old map that supposedly was originally drawn by Lafitte's men who were enlisted to bury the treasure. So this is like a firsthand map allegedly.

• 48:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's cool.

• 48:38Danielle LaRock?

  And it points out to an area known as Lake Born, which is a lagoon in southeastern Louisiana where apparently some of this treasure can be found. So Newell was gifted this map by his father because the sailor gave it to the father, the father gave it to Newell. And he became absolutely obsessed with trying to find this treasure. He bought a small fishing boat and camping gear and set off for this lagoon. He spent nearly 20 years shoveling sand, all in hopes that the next swing of his shovel would thump into a wooden chest. In the summer of 1871, despite an impending hurricane, Newell was witnessed aboard his ship heading out in search of this treasure.

• 49:21Danielle LaRock?

  The next day, his boat was found bobbing empty on the waves and his lifeless body was discovered shortly after. So he died looking for the treasure. And I just want to know, I did say 1930 and it might be confusing, but that's when the book was published with the story. So he, this story was actually happening, yeah, in the 1850s-ish. Which again, if Lafitte is alive, like that's kind of trippy.

• 49:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  He might know of all of this happening.

• 49:48Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, or maybe he just moved on and didn't care because he knew where his treasure was and

• 49:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  It didn't matter. He's like, okay, yeah, you can look over there.

• 49:56Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, have fun for 20 years. Another account brings us to Padre Island, west of Corpus Christi, Texas, which surprise has a national seashore on it because the National Park Service is everywhere. In this story, a group of young men teamed up with a local surveyor who apparently had a tip on where some of Lafitte's treasure was stashed. As the men were told, about 100 years earlier, one of Lafitte's ships got cornered by an enemy ship among the treacherous sandbars in a narrow, twisty channel that they were using as a hideout. While trying to evade this enemy vessel, the ship got stuck in the sand and was unable to outrun her pursuers. So in response, Lafitte ordered all the men to flee the ship, keeping back two of his most trusted men to help carry off a chest,

• 50:39Danielle LaRock?

  reportedly full of a million dollars' worth of gold and jewels. Due to its weight, the men were not able to carry it very far and made it less than A half a mile east of the Lavaca River and into a salt grass flat where they buried it. And as any good pirate would do, what do you with a treasure, you mark the spot.

• 50:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  X marks the spot.

• 50:59Danielle LaRock?

  With not an X this time, but a long brass staff. So he pounded it deep into the ground until only about a foot of it was sticking out out of the ground. And he took note of the surrounding landmarks before he and the two men fled the scene. After days of traveling, he decided to part ways with them. He was like, I'm gonna go north and you guys should go back to New Orleans. Take this opportunity to begin a new life with a clean slate. And they did so. They took the opportunity and ran with it. He also, before he departed, he was like, hey, so after three years, if you can remember where we just put that treasure, you can come back and take whatever you want from it.

• 51:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, okay.

• 51:41Danielle LaRock?

  So they're like, all right, sounds like a good deal. So fast forward, and the men do go back to life in New Orleans. One of those two men had a bit of a deathbed confession to a local bartender about the whole treasure situation. And the other man had gone on to marry and have two sons, who were in turn told by their father about the treasure. Kind of just like a story passed down from fathers to sons. And somehow, some way, those two sons and that bartender that was told the story from the other man met up and were pleasantly surprised to discover that they were both told the exact same story.

• 52:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow.

• 52:19Danielle LaRock?

  So that seems like there's some legitimacy.

• 52:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 52:22Danielle LaRock?

  To and truth to this story. So they're very excited about it now. Because it's a good treasure story and it's fun to hear, but until it's corroborated, you're kind of like,

• 52:32Cassandra Yahnian?

  There's a lot of question marks.

• 52:34Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. Of course, they all high tail it out of there and they're like, let's go and try and find it.

• 52:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  There's a treasure to find.

• 52:39Danielle LaRock?

  Out there. But they never, they never did find anything and nothing ever came of that. However, fast forward some years and a rancher acquires the land that the treasure was supposedly buried on. His ranch hand was out walking the range when his shin slammed into something hard sticking out of the ground. It was a brass rod sticking out about a foot from the soil, not recognizing it or knowing its potential significance. He pulled it out of the ground and took it back to the his boss at the end of the day.

• 53:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, no.

• 53:13Danielle LaRock?

  No.

• 53:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  Why?

• 53:15Danielle LaRock?

  His boss, who was very

• 53:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Aware.

• 53:19Danielle LaRock?

  familiar with the local legend and knew that his land potentially was the spot of this treasure.

• 53:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  He's like, take me back.

• 53:27Danielle LaRock?

  He's like, what do you mean? Take me back immediately.

• 53:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 53:31Danielle LaRock?

  And the guy could never find the exact spot and that was the end of that.

• 53:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  No, really?

• 53:38Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, truly. Yeah, that was it. Amateur and professional treasure hunters have taken to the shores and swamps of South Louisiana and Texas for generations, eager to uncover what Lafitte had supposedly stashed. In a 2018 episode of Expedition Unknown, host Josh Gates follows the path of various treasure hunters, looking for this treasure. He visits Fleming Plantation today, an abandoned, dilapidated shadow of the grand estate it once was in its heyday, tucked in the bayous along one of Lafitte's smuggling routes. Legend has it that he buried some of his treasure there, which was a location used as a waystation along the smuggling route, for one thing, but it's also rumored to be a rendezvous

• 54:20Danielle LaRock?

  spot where he was allegedly meeting up with the governor's wife in secret.

• 54:25Cassandra Yahnian?

  Scandalous.

• 54:27Danielle LaRock?

  Scandalous. So that it makes like the sign thing even more funny, like, you know, when, because they're posting signs, like wanted signs for each other all over New Orleans.

• 54:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  And then he's like, yeah.

• 54:38Danielle LaRock?

  He's like, I'm actually

• 54:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  also sleeping with your wife.

• 54:40Danielle LaRock?

  Right. Yeah. But there's not much weight to that. I just had to include it because I thought it was kind of

• 54:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Kind of funny.

• 54:46Danielle LaRock?

  But it wasn't just gold coins and silver bars that people are after. In the same episode, he meets up with the Hicks Brothers, a trio who believe they are distantly related to Lafitte and who are in search of his long-lost ship, The Pride, which they believe he intentionally scuttled outside of Galveston. Then there are professional explorers such as Christian Founder of the Subsea Society, a Texas-based research organization dedicated to the study of Caribbean piracy and aquatic folklore, Christian has been enamored with Lafitte's story since he was a kid. He appeared on History Channel's series Beyond Oak Island, and led an expedition into the swamps with his team of divers to search for the lost loot.

• 55:28Danielle LaRock?

  Over the years, dozens have stepped forward claiming to know the location of the swamp, the cave, the sandbar, the grove of trees, wherever this treasure is supposedly buried, and just waiting to be found. Some have lost their lives, others have swindled money from gullible investors and wound up in prison, others spent decades of their lives committed to the hunt, and without a doubt, hundreds more have kept their searches quiet, scanning the swamps without drawing attention to whatever knowledge they have, or think they have, about the alleged locations. But it isn't all about tangible treasure. Gold, silver, jewels, and long-lost ships are nice, but for some people enamored with Lafitte's story,

• 56:10Danielle LaRock?

  uncovering truth to the dozens of question marks that surround his life and death is the real treasure. There is still so much to discover about Lafitte, but whether or not we ever do will remain a mystery. By all accounts, it appears that he intentionally muddled the waters, leaving a lot of confusing information, myths, and legends about his own life to throw people off of his trail, going to great lengths to leave little trace of his true life. He did a hell of a job, but as Dr. Alafont says, quote, "Even when it comes to very old historical figures, there are new things to be said about them." And, truly, truly, to wrap it up, I had to, you're like, okay, this is National Park After Dark, where's the national park?

• 56:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes, tell me, I've been waiting one whole hour.

• 56:57Danielle LaRock?

  Sorry to bury the lead, but Jean Lafitte has a very real National Park connection. In fact, there's an entire national historical park named after him. Jean Lafitte National Historical Park and Preserve is located in Louisiana and is divided into six separate units that are scattered across the southern half of the state. In nineteen seventy eight, after the merge of an existing national historic park and a state park, there are three units that I just really want to highlight. First, the Shalomet Battlefield and Cemetery, located about twenty miles south of New Orleans, is the site of the Battle of New Or- is the site of the Battle of New Orleans, in which Lafitte was recruited for during the War of eighteen twelve. So that's why that's included.

• 57:42Danielle LaRock?

  Today, as with many historic battlefields, the unit hosts historic reenactments, complete with period accurate weapons and uniforms. Then there's the Barataria Preserve Unit, which protects over twenty-six thousand acres of wild wetlands that includes swamps, marshes, hardwood forests, and bayous, much of which Lafitte and his organization utilized in the eighteen hundreds as smuggling routes. Then there is the French Quarter Unit, the location of the park's visitor center, and it's located smack dab in the heart of the city's oldest neighborhood and the old stomping grounds of Mr. Lafitte. They say there is no place like New Orleans, and with so many hundreds of years of layered history and so many cultures and stories mixed into one big pot,

• 58:26Danielle LaRock?

  if you were to visit New Orleans, you may get caught up in all there is to see and do. Between tossing or receiving Mardi Gras beads, eating beignets, or getting swept up in the jazz, amazing art scene, elegant architecture, and above-ground cemeteries, keeping your eye out for remnants of a long-dead pirate may just not be a priority. But you don't have to look hard, because he is everywhere. Jean and Pierre's house on the edge of the French Quarter is now a hotel. Their blacksmith shop is now a famous bar. The jail that once housed Lafitte, Pierre, and many of their men is now a museum. And the coffee shop that Lafitte and General Jackson supposedly met up in to strike up a deal is now Pierre Mespiro's, one of the oldest restaurants in the city.

• 59:11Danielle LaRock?

  There is a portion of the city nicknamed Pirate Alley, located between the museum and the Saint Louis Cathedral, which today is listed on many of the must-see lists of New Orleans, if you're to look it up today. Once again, it's up for debate whether or not this section of the city was truly- A pirate's den of debauchery and illegal activity as it is remembered today. But regardless, its lamp posts, bookstores, beautiful architecture and pirate-themed bars draw thousands of people every year to go visit. The other units of this national park, I should mention, are equally as important and interesting, and they serve to interpret the Acadian and Cajun cultures of southern Louisiana.

• 59:53Danielle LaRock?

  And lastly, which I, I know I don't have to say out loud, but supposedly every location that I've discussed today is haunted.

• 1:00:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  I knew it. I felt haunted that whole time.

• 1:00:05Danielle LaRock?

  Come on.

• 1:00:06Cassandra Yahnian?

  It has to be.

• 1:00:06Danielle LaRock?

  It did have a haunted feel.

• 1:00:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  It did, for sure. And New Orleans is very haunted in general, so.

• 1:00:12Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. Yep. You can take boat rides through the park's protected swamplands on Jean Lafitte tours, which seasonally take on a little bit of a haunted twist, depending on, like, if you go during the fall, you can get some ghost stories thrown in there. There is various haunted pub crawls through the city conducted almost every single night that stop at their old blacksmith shop and their old house that is now a hotel, the Jean Lafitte Hotel, and obviously goes into depth about their stories and the paranormal happenings that are said to happen there. Amateur and renowned ghost hunting groups from around the world visit here due to its infamous reputation for being so haunted and so paranormal, so active paranormal-wise.

• 1:00:57Danielle LaRock?

  There are disembodied voices, ghostly women dressed in white and moving objects, and that's all kind of the norm everywhere. And of course, the swamp has its own creepy air to it as well.

• 1:01:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  As swamps do.

• 1:01:09Danielle LaRock?

  As they do. Not only is his name scattered around New Orleans, an actual town in the state of Louisiana was named after him as well. It's clear that he left his mark between the enduring mysteries, suspected treasure, haunted buildings and spooky swamps. All of southern Louisiana knows about Jean Lafitte, and now you do too. And that's the end.

• 1:01:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, thank you for telling that story. That was so interesting. I had, like, we had mentioned him before, but I- Didn't know in depth. And I also just think it's so interesting that all this stuff happened and he may have been alive while everyone was debating his life and what happened to him and

• 1:01:49Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Coming up with all these theories of how he died or when he died or whatever. And then turns out he's just hanging out in North Carolina.

• 1:01:57Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I think that's kind of the, one of the coolest aspect of this story. I mean, what a life that this person led and clearly he did some not so great things.

• 1:02:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't describe him as a good guy by any account, but an interesting guy for sure.

• 1:02:15Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. And I just think that it's just so, it's just so funny because when I first dove into the story, I'm like, okay, well, everything that I'm, I'm kind of clicking on and getting into at surface level is all about this lost treasure. So I was thinking it was going to be like this grand, like we all know that it's out there. It's just kind of a matter of where. And the more I researched it, the more I was like, we're not even sure if a treasure exists. Yeah, there are different things that can be deemed as treasure.

• 1:02:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Stumbled upon the pole.

• 1:02:46Danielle LaRock?

  I know, but that's lost. I mean, imagine being the boss. You're like, oh my.

• 1:02:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  You just lost me millions, millions.

• 1:02:53Danielle LaRock?

  It's like, you blew it.

• 1:02:56Cassandra Yahnian?

  You blew it. Yeah.

• 1:02:58Danielle LaRock?

  But anyway, so yeah, that's Jean Lafitte's story. And I just really wanted to kind of circle back on it because I said I would and now felt like a good time. So.

• 1:03:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, I'm glad you did.

• 1:03:10Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you so much. Yep. And now I want to, I know I've said this before at some point, but I do have a little pirate's treasure of my own.

• 1:03:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  What do you mean?

• 1:03:20Danielle LaRock?

  Like actually, I have a coin from the Atocha, which was a ship that wrecked in the 1600s off the coast of Key West. And when I was in Key West, I went to one of the museums there and I, I didn't buy it. My stepdad bought it for me. I certainly had no money, but it's, it's a silver coin and it's, you could see the stamp and it's kind of all messed up, but it's, it's on a necklace now, a gold necklace.

• 1:03:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  That's really cool. That's really fun.

• 1:03:54Danielle LaRock?

  And it's, it's kind of like. I don't want to just like wear that to Safeway, but at the same time, or like Shaw's, but it like, I don't know where to wear it.

• 1:04:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  You have some pirate treasure just hanging around your neck.

• 1:04:07Danielle LaRock?

  It's like, you don't know this, but this is real, it's from the Atocha. And if you, if I talk to anybody, I would tell you, but I don't. So.

• 1:04:15Cassandra Yahnian?

  But I'm silent in public, so.

• 1:04:18Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, great. Well, thanks, everyone for tuning in and we will see you next week. In the meantime, please enjoy the view.

• 1:04:26Cassandra Yahnian?

  But watch your back. Bye, guys.

• 1:04:27Danielle LaRock?

  Bye, everyone.

• 1:04:30Danielle LaRock?

  Thank you for joining us again this week. If you love National Park After Dark and want to hear exclusive bonus stories, join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. Patreon subscribers have access to our National Park After Dark Book Club, live streams, Discord, and much more. If you prefer to watch our episodes, video episodes are now available on YouTube. If you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform. And to follow along with all our adventures, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and X at National Park After Dark.

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