Gary Zukav: How To Manifest Your Soul’s Deepest Desires & Awaken To The New Consciousness

Leave an Amazon Rating or Review for my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Gary Zukav's journey from sex addiction to spiritual awakening reveals the transformative power of authentic choice. The four-time New York Times bestselling author shares how he evolved from feeling powerless—seeking validation through his Green Beret service and numerous sexual conquests—to discovering a new consciousness beyond the five senses. His raw vulnerability shines through as he describes the moment he realized his addiction was out of control and how meeting his spiritual partner showed him what true intimacy feels like. This conversation exposes the fundamental difference between external power (manipulating and controlling others) and authentic power (aligning your personality with your soul), delivering practical wisdom for anyone feeling trapped by fear, addiction, or the pursuit of validation in our chaotic world. The Gary Zukav PodcastGary’s books:The Seat of the SoulUniversal HumanDancing Wu Li Masters: An Enlightening Exploration of Quantum Physics, Eastern Philosophy, and the Interplay of Science and SpiritualityThe Heart of the Soul: Emotional AwarenessIn this episode you will learn:The stark difference between the old consciousness (limited to five senses) and new consciousness (awareness beyond physical reality)How to recognize when you're operating from fear versus love in your daily choicesWhy your personality contains multiple parts, some frightened and some loving, rather than being a single entityThe counter-intuitive truth that hating evil increases rather than diminishes its presenceHow to cultivate authentic power by challenging the frightened parts of your personalityWhy temptation is not external but a "dress rehearsal" for negative karmic eventsThe process of transforming from powerlessness to authentic choice through conscious awarenessHow meaningful intention differs from ego-driven goals when manifesting your dreamsFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1773For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Rhonda Byrne – greatness.lnk.to/1526SCGabby Bernstein – greatness.lnk.to/1714SCDanny Morel – greatness.lnk.to/1734SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back my friend to another special episode on the School of Greatness. And I'm actually in Spain right now, working on something that is a big dream for me. I'll be sharing more about it soon. If you're on social media, you might see me talking about it here in the next week or so. So feel free to stay tuned for what's happening there. But I just want to remind you that if you're not living fully in your life right now, if you feel stuck in some way, then ask yourself, am I doing everything I can to pursue the thing that I know I'm meant to do? And maybe you can't do all of your time pursuing it. But am I taking steps on a daily basis? Am I spending 10 minutes allowing myself to work on it? Am I doing it on the weekends?

• 0:43Lewis Howes?

  Am I actively planning to take steps in the future when I'm going to have more time to do it? If you're not doing it, you might feel like something's off. If there's a dream inside of you to write a book, to start creating content, to mentor young kids, whatever it might be, and you're not doing it, just get started a little bit. Start writing down a little bit of a game plan and start taking these steps. I'm in Spain, working on this dream right now that I envisioned and planned nine months ago. Nine months ago, I wrote this down. At the end of last year, I wrote down on my calendar for this year that I will be in Spain this month. And I'm actively taking steps. I couldn't do everything nine months ago towards this dream,

• 1:28Lewis Howes?

  but I took steps that I could take and then I planned to take action now. And I'm telling you what, I've been here for two weeks. I've been working on this dream of mine and it's been a lot of hard work. It's not been easy. It hasn't been enjoyable every second because sometimes big dreams take time. Sometimes you need to fail and fumble along the journey in order to grow, to develop, to get better, to improve, to put yourself out there. And again, I've talked about this so many times, that failure does not mean you're a loser. It's just feedback. It's information telling you what you need to still learn to improve, to get the results and the success that you want. So just because you're failing right now, or you're not accomplishing, or you haven't arrived

• 2:10Lewis Howes?

  The results you want right now, that shouldn't be something you are sad about. It should be something that you celebrate because it means you actually have the courage to take the actions, even when you weren't perfect, even when you weren't talented, even when you weren't great yet. And that's awesome. It's okay. That's what it takes. It takes you taking those steps, fumbling, failing along the way and then saying, okay, I'm just gonna take the information from this day and get better tomorrow. And then you come back and do it again. It doesn't mean the big dream is gonna happen overnight, but it is a process. And if you can trust the timing of your life, trust knowing that the reason it hasn't happened yet is because you still need to learn something. You still need to develop. You still need to take action on things and these things might take time.

• 2:54Lewis Howes?

  The bigger the dream, the longer it is it usually takes and the harder it is to get there sometimes. But it doesn't mean you can't enjoy the process, the moments and the days along the journey. So I want to remind you this, if you're feeling like something's been off and you're like, ah, you feel out of alignment within your soul because you know you're not taking the actions. Start planning and start prepping by taking steps daily and failing daily towards your dreams. Again, this episode is all about manifesting. It's about creating the abundance and the life within your authentic power. And you may not feel powerful because you're not being authentic.

• 3:34Lewis Howes?

  You're not being authentic because you're not taking action and pursuing the thing that you truly desire, what your heart truly wants. And you know what it wants, but you might be too afraid to take the actions to go after it. So just allow yourself to take a little bit of action. You don't have to have all the time in the world to go all in, just a little bit of action. Your soul is gonna thank you. Your spirit is gonna thank you. Your body is going to say thank you by releasing the stress, the anger, the tension, the resentment that it has towards you from denying yourself of your dreams, from denying and robbing you of an opportunity to experience life in a more profound way than you're experiencing it right now. And if you have a dream in your soul and in your heart and you know it's been speaking to you, maybe it's been whispering to you.

• 4:20Lewis Howes?

  Because you've been shutting it down for years. It's time to let it have a voice. It's time to let your dream speak by you actually acting on it. And I know it's scary and I know it's going to take a ton of courage from you. But that's what you need. You need more courage and to be willing to disappoint people, to be judged, to be critiqued, to be criticized, to be laughed at. You need to be willing to have the courage and start standing up for the little boy and the little girl inside of you that has a dream that's been screaming at you to take action. That's what you deserve right now. And we've got Gary Zukav on the show today, who's going to share the wisdom on what he

• 5:01Lewis Howes?

  calls the new consciousness that is emerging in humanity, which is to shift beyond the limitations of our five senses that allows us to experience non-physical reality and live from authentic power. He's going to give a transformational framework for creating authentic power by aligning your personality with your soul. This conversation will support you if you have a big dream and you haven't been acting on it fully yet. Take your notes, write it down, start reflecting and start taking action. And if you're enjoying this episode, make sure to share with one or two friends that you care about, people you want to see shine, people you want to celebrate in life and you want to keep reminding them of the authentic power they have inside of them so they can

• 5:46Lewis Howes?

  unleash it into the world. So again, share this with one or two friends that you care about as you listen to this. Make sure to tag me on social media so I can see what you're thinking and how you're reflecting on this episode. I'm so grateful you're here. I appreciate you. Without further ado, let's dive into this episode. Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest. We have the inspiring Gary Zukav in the house, who's written four New York Times bestsellers, including one that was number one for many years called The Seat of the Soul. And you've got a new book called Universal Human, which is about creating authentic power and the new consciousness. So good to see you, grateful that you're here. And the last time we had you on, people loved

• 6:30Lewis Howes?

  But we were on Zoom during the pandemic. Now we're in person. And I'm excited for this moment because there is a lot of chaos, a lot of pain, a lot of uncertainty, a lot of fear in the world with so much that's shifting around political changes, around economic changes, around potential war changes or threats. And you talk about in this book, the difference between an old consciousness and a new consciousness. And I'm curious, what is the new conscious? And what do we need to let go of in order to step into this new way of being?

• 7:08Gary Zukav?

  Oh, great questions.

• 7:13Gary Zukav?

  Let me start with the old consciousness.

• 7:16Gary Zukav?

  Millennials don't know it. Gen Z don't know it.

• 7:21Gary Zukav?

  But I know it and anyone that's your parents knows it. It's limited to the five senses. And that means if it can't be detected by the five senses, it's imagination or it's delusion. The new consciousness does not have those limitations. So we are able to experience the earth's cool. That's this domain of time and space and matter and duality without the limitations imposed upon us by the five senses. And that means we can have direct experience of non-physical reality.

• 7:58Gary Zukav?

  We know, for example, that we are more than minds and bodies. We know it. We know that there is a component of our personalities that is older than we, that knows more than we.

• 8:11Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 8:12Gary Zukav?

  In the Western religious language, that would be called a soul.

• 8:17Gary Zukav?

  Now, before I talk about the new consciousness more, I want to say to you and to the people who are listening to us or watching us, I do not expect you to accept anything that I say is true just because I say it. On the contrary, I suggest that if I say anything with which you resonate, experiment with it. Take it into your life. See what it produces. And if you like it, experiment some more. And if it doesn't, let it go.

• 8:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:52Gary Zukav?

  Don't try to wear a shoe that pinches.

• 8:53Lewis Howes?

  Right, yeah, that hurts you. I know that feeling.

• 8:58Gary Zukav?

  Everybody knows the feeling of trying to please someone else, trying to be something else, trying to do something else, but not something that comes from your heart, not that gives you meaning and takes you forward toward a goal of your life.

• 9:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 9:11Gary Zukav?

  And there's only one goal that you have in your life: love. Love is authentic power. Authentic power is love. Love is the universe. The universe is love. You are not separate from the universe. I am not separate from the universe. Nothing is separate from the universe, and the universe is not separate from anything. What could it be separate from? That means we are more than connected. We are one. That's where the new consciousness is taking us.

• 9:45Lewis Howes?

  In a world of uncertainty, in a world of comparison, in a world of trying to people please to fit in, when the ego is driving personalities in the world, how can people believe that they can tap into love to create more effortlessly, or to manifest more effortlessly, or to have the life of their dreams more effortlessly, when there's so much tension in their environment, in the media, in their nervous system, and they're clinging to ego versus love?

• 10:22Gary Zukav?

  I would say fear versus love.

• 10:24Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 10:24Gary Zukav?

  The opposite of love is not hate. It's fear. Fear that we experience is anger, jealousy, resentment, competitiveness, superiority, inferiority, compulsions, obsessions, addictions.

• 10:42Gary Zukav?

  And everyone has parts of their personality that originate in fear.

• 10:48Gary Zukav?

  And the opposite of that is love. These are things that we experience as gratitude, appreciation, caring, contentment, patience, awe of the universe. This is the fundamental duality in the Earth School.

• 11:06Gary Zukav?

  We are not what we appeared to be to ourselves when we were limited to the five senses. We appeared to be a book, you might say. The book began when we were born or conceived, however you look at it, and the book ends when we die. From the perspective of our souls, you might say we're a chapter in a book.

• 11:33Gary Zukav?

  And the book does not end when the chapter ends.

• 11:39Gary Zukav?

  When your soul returns home to non-physical reality, it discards your personality. That's a tool of your soul.

• 11:50Gary Zukav?

  But your soul is immortal. That means that consciousness and responsibility for what you create in the Earth School does not end when your personality ends. It continues. In the East, this is called karma.

• 12:08Gary Zukav?

  So what are you writing in your chapter? The span of time between your birth and your death. And time is something that doesn't exist outside of the Earth School, that doesn't exist in non-physical reality. For example, my beloved Linda Francis, that I was with in the Earth School for 27 years.

• 12:33Gary Zukav?

  And we created and co-created and had a wonderful time. I never knew that that kind of experience could happen because before that, for most of my, the first half of my life, I was addicted to sex. And I didn't know what relationships were. They began and ended in sex. That's not a relationship. I thought that was very intimate. There's no intimacy in it. It's mutual praying of one person upon another. So when Linda appeared in my life, other things began to appear too. When I first met her, I was, I pushed her away. Really, why?

• 13:12Gary Zukav?

  Good question.

• 13:17Gary Zukav?

  I could tell you the reasons, I thought at the time. She was wearing her haircut really short. She was wearing sweats. It was at this new age retreat. She was barefoot, walking on gravel, barefoot. And I didn't appreciate any of that. But then, when she moved to Mount Shasta, which is where I was living afterwards, I was living there at the time, and afterwards she moved to Mount Shasta. This is the part that starts where new experiences start. I was happy to see her. She came with a U-Haul trailer with her dad and one of her friends from chiropractic school. And I didn't know why I was feeling so happy.

• 14:01Gary Zukav?

  And that happiness continued for 27 years. And we knew after a while, I helped her move in to Mount Shasta. She wasn't, at first she was moving to Mount Shasta. Then she decided not to move to Mount Shasta because of a guy. And then she decided not to not move to Mount Shasta because of a guy. So she called me to tell me that she was coming. And she would come over and we would talk sometimes in the afternoon. Sometimes that was pleasant and other times I just wanted to leave. I didn't, I was very uncomfortable. And after about six months, I began to think, I'm in a relationship. I think this is what happens.

• 14:45Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 14:46Gary Zukav?

  Then she went to Europe for a couple of weeks. And during that time, I realized, I don't want to live in a cabin next, down, down the street across a little town from hers. I want to live with her. And when she came back, she'd had the same realization. It was a sweet realization. It was effortless. And we moved into my little cabin together.

• 15:09Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 15:10Gary Zukav?

  And that's when things continued to happen. I, for all the time we were together, our togetherness was so easy, so effortless, so real, so complete, so deep. I don't think, I thought a relationship had to have a lot of struggle and, uh, do you love me? I want you to feel my love and, no, I just loved her. I just love her completely.

• 15:35Lewis Howes?

  What do you think shifted inside of you from being a sex addict and being attracted to pleasures to being able to align your soul to attract a spiritual partner that was beyond the pleasure world?

• 15:49Gary Zukav?

  Yes, it didn't jump from A to B. It was, I already knew. This book, The Seed of the Soul, describes exactly my process in going to and through and out the other side of my addiction to sex. And I recommend it to everyone, whether your addiction is to alcohol or drugs or sex or masturbating or pornography or shopping or gambling. An addiction is a part of your personality that's out of your control. It's in the control of the external world. It's your greatest inadequacy. But it is a frightened part of your personality and it can be treated the same way as any frightened part of your personality.

• 16:36Lewis Howes?

  What is at the root cause of all addiction?

• 16:40Gary Zukav?

  Fear, pain, it's the same. Fear is pain, emotional pain is fear. Emotional pain is physical pain. And when you read this book, you learn how to learn when you're in fear or when you're in love, somatically, through your body. It won't lie to you. So for example, if you're feeling a painful, physical sensation, a painful, emotional experience, then you put your attention inside of you, not outside. This is where the old consciousness has you put your attention. Because from that perspective, it's the world that's producing pain in you. So to relieve yourself of the pain requires changing the world.

• 17:24Gary Zukav?

  That's manipulation and control, that's external power.

• 17:28Lewis Howes?

  Changing people, changing your external environment, whatever it might be.

• 17:32Gary Zukav?

  Yes.

• 17:32Lewis Howes?

  Changing policies, trying to change things that are hurting me.

• 17:35Gary Zukav?

  Precisely, precisely, Lewis. That is the understanding of power of the old consciousness. It's the only understanding of power that a consciousness that's limited to the five senses can have, the ability to manipulate and control. We have a new consciousness now. It's been emerging rapidly since the late 1980s. And within another generation and a half, everyone will have it. And it brings with it the potential of a new power, a new kind of power.

• 18:10Lewis Howes?

  What is that power?

• 18:11Gary Zukav?

  Authentic power. The alignment of your personality with your soul, with harmony, cooperation, sharing, and reverence for life. And more than that, the old understanding is more than obsolete from the perspective of our evolutionary requirements. It is toxic. It produces only violence and destruction. That is what we are seeing.

• 18:41Gary Zukav?

  My, I would say about half of our species has the new consciousness now.

• 18:49Gary Zukav?

  That's why for millennials and the Gen Z, I wouldn't even say the old consciousness and the new. The new consciousness for them is just consciousness. But for those who know the difference, it's a big difference. And there are a lot of people who are still in the old consciousness.

• 19:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 19:06Gary Zukav?

  Billions of them as well. And that is the situation that we are in now. It's not a political circumstance, an economic circumstance, a cultural circumstance. It's a spiritual circumstance.

• 19:20Lewis Howes?

  Speaking of the spiritual circumstance, I think a lot of people don't even know what a soul is. They maybe have heard, I have a soul, there's a soul in me, but what? And I saw analogy you made with Oprah one time, and I think again, we talked about this before. You're Oprah's most interviewed guest and you talked about she was so impacted by the book. And you give an analogy for what the soul is. I'm wondering if you can share around a mothership.

• 19:47Gary Zukav?

  That came out in our first interview and I had this experience, Lewis. I felt I was a surfer. I'm not a surfer, I can surf a little bit. My son's a surfer. But I felt I was a surfer, I was on a board and the wave was there. I didn't have to wait for it and I didn't have to paddle to catch it. All I had to do was stand up and ride. And I knew it was going to take me a long way. One of the questions, what's a soul? And it was in that moment that this experience of the mothership came as a beautiful metaphor. I love it when this happens. I said, your soul is like a mothership. Imagine a sailing ship that's as big as a city.

• 20:34Gary Zukav?

  Gloria, not glorious, but I love sailing ships. And it, that's your soul. And around your soul are a lot of little ships around the motherships. Those of you, those are your personalities. Those little ships are your personality? The little boats, each one of them is a personality of a soul. Your soul has lots of personalities. Got it. And each of these little boats has a captain, that's you.

• 21:06Gary Zukav?

  And when you sail your boat in the same direction that the mothership wants to go, the trade winds are blowing right, the sailing is easy and the water's calm.

• 21:19Gary Zukav?

  The currents are right, the wind's not calm, it's blowing just where you want to go. It's smooth sailing, it's good sailing. When you're sailing in the opposite direction, the opposite happens. It's tough. The waters, the wind's against you, the current's not right, it's, it's hard. You choose which direction you're gonna sail. And not only that, you've got a crew. Some of this crew love sailing, they love sailing with you.

• 21:52Gary Zukav?

  And when they, and when one of them takes the tiller, it's good. But you've also got part of your crew that doesn't like sailing, doesn't like you, doesn't like where you're going. These are the frightened parts of your personality. And when you let one of them take the tiller,

• 22:13Gary Zukav?

  it's more difficult.

• 22:16Gary Zukav?

  So, that was how the metaphor was given to me of the mothership. That's your soul. Your soul is not a theoretical entity in your chest cavity or anyplace else. And you don't have a soul. You are the partial incarnation of a soul. And that soul, the, the, the power of it, the capability of it, is the same.

• 22:44Gary Zukav?

  But your experiences are calibrated a step down enormously into the experience of physicalness. But think of it this way. Suppose you think of a soul as something then. Suppose you're at the ocean and you take a cup and you put it into the ocean. Well, in that moment, that cup has become, you might say, separate from the ocean. It's become an individual cup of water. You could call it a soul. But it's still water. It's still the ocean. That cup has not changed. It's the ocean in that cup, calibrated to some experiences that your soul chooses to have

• 23:27Gary Zukav?

  prior to your incarnation. Now, this incarnation has been known by billions of people. Hindus, Buddhists, they all know it, but very few of them believe it. If they did, they would never do anything to create destruction in the world. It's just like in our culture. In the United States, it's a Christian nation. And everyone knows what Christ said is "love your neighbor." How much? A lot. How much is a lot? Enough to die for him. Whoa, wait a minute, Christ, this is something to think about. And they do think about it.

• 24:11Gary Zukav?

  They think a lot about "love your neighbor." But very few of them believe that or do that. If they did, what would this world be like if everyone loved you enough to die for you? That's what the Christ was talking about. But we can talk later about the difference between the kernel of truth, that is, at the core of every religion, and the encrustation around it, which is the religion, whether it's Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Baha'i.

• 24:48Gary Zukav?

  The Incrustation, the Establishment, stands against the universal truth that it claims as its own. This is very confusing, not only to religious professionals, but to, in this case, Christians, in this case Buddhists. But you'll see that there is a difference between what the Christ taught and Christianity. You'll see there is a difference between what the Buddha taught, once Siddhartha became the Buddha, and Buddhism. I've been in Buddhist temples, like in Christian churches, but in Buddhist temples where Buddhists are elbowing each other at the base of a statue of the Buddha so they can put their stick of incense into the sand at his feet.

• 25:32Gary Zukav?

  This is not awareness, this is not awakeness, this is not your original face, this is Buddhism, the Establishment. So, as you understand this larger context of a new consciousness that's emerging in our entire species, you understand a lot of things, and one of them is why the world is falling apart now. Because everyone can see that this world is crumbling. All of our social structures are disintegrating: healthcare, education, commerce. And the reason is, our world was built with the old consciousness.

• 26:16Gary Zukav?

  And the old consciousness is dead. That's not dying, it's dead. So why do we still have the world? Imagine a locomotive, the old kind, powerful, brutish, a symbol of progress in its day. And people inside it are cushioned in comfort, they're looking out the window, the countryside's passing by faster, they're moving faster than a horse can run. And then, they feel a deceleration.

• 26:48Gary Zukav?

  And slowly, the train comes to a halt. And I said, "What's happening?" They get out, they ask one another. They must have run out of fuel. It did. But they don't know that there isn't any more fuel coming. Hmm. That's happening to us now. Everything that was built with and by and for the old consciousness, which expresses power as the ability to manipulate and control, is moving forward only by inertia. It's got a lot of momentum, a lot of inertia, but it's decelerating. Hmm. That is the collapse that we're seeing around us. And when we understand that this is not a bad thing, this is a thing. Mm-hmm.

• 27:32Gary Zukav?

  And from the larger context, it is the new consciousness emerging and a reaction on the part of those individuals who are still controlled and experience the old consciousness. Now, we in the new consciousness, and I say "we" because anyone who watches and listens to your podcast is not confined to the five senses. They do not see power as the ability to manipulate and control. And they're searching for it. This is the school of greatness. Let's talk a little later on about what is greatness. Mm-hmm. So, we who are multi-sensory are not superior in any way to those who are still five-sensory.

• 28:15Gary Zukav?

  It's just a temporary ebb and flow in evolution. But when we see now the dichotomy, not only in the United States but around the world, we can see this graphically, the difference between the old consciousness and the new. The people in the old consciousness are right and righteous. They need to manipulate, they need to control. It's frightened parts of their personality that need to do these things and do do these things.

• 28:49Gary Zukav?

  For example, our new president says, "We're a victim. Our country's been victimized. They're taking advantage of us. That's why we have such a trade deficit. I won't let it happen. I won't be victimized. You elect me and we won't. We'll show the world how great we are. And if somebody hits me, I hit them back harder. And if they hit me again, I hit them back harder."

• 29:14Gary Zukav?

  This is to him and to the people around him, a truth. A way of being in the world. It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I'm the biggest dog. Watch me. It doesn't work anymore. The pursuit of external power, manipulation and control, creates only violence and destruction. And we're seeing it now. And we're seeing the reaction. The, not the response in love, but the re-action. What we've done in the past with the pursuit of external power.

• 29:48Gary Zukav?

  And now the question is, what are we going to do about it? Yeah. Well, we cannot change a world that's built on external power with more external power. And not only that, the pursuit of external power produces only violence and destruction.

• 30:07Gary Zukav?

  There is only one alternative to imploding under the fear of the collective. There's only one alternative to resisting with another movement, another party, more votes. There's only one alternative to a world that's based on fear, and that is its opposite: love.

• 30:31Gary Zukav?

  Our evolution now requires us to love our new president, to love the people who are attracted to him.

• 30:41Gary Zukav?

  And that doesn't mean invite them home to dinner. You might never want to do that. It means never forget that they are brothers and sisters. They are incarnate souls, as are we. Their lives are as complex and painful, as difficult as our own. But we know how to identify frightened parts of our personalities that will dominate if we don't challenge them, that will control, that feel right and righteous, and challenge them, which means move beyond their control, and to create authentic power, which is love. There's no greater power.

• 31:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:21Gary Zukav?

  So, this is where we are now.

• 31:28Lewis Howes?

  If someone watching is in their twenties and thirties and they feel out of control, they feel powerless. And in every area of their life, their finances, their health, their relationships, their career, whatever it might be, they feel like they're not in control. And they feel like that maybe they are victim to what is happening around them. How can they even start the process of understanding what their soul truly wants? And getting in alignment with that? Like, how do you know what your soul wants you to do in this personality?

• 32:03Gary Zukav?

  Meaning, meaning. Follow your sense of meaning, not your sense of need, not your want. I followed sex for decades.

• 32:14Gary Zukav?

  I was so frightened, I didn't know I was frightened. The street name for that is macho. I was macho. Somebody said, Gary, you're the way you are because you're frightened. And I said, wait, you're talking to me? Come here, come here. You're talking to me? Well, I'm not as big. I don't have as big a body as you. But I didn't realize that at the time.

• 32:36Lewis Howes?

  You got a lot of fight.

• 32:38Gary Zukav?

  Yeah, what do you mean? I'm frightened. Let me show you frightened. And I became a paratrooper. I enlisted in the army.

• 32:47Gary Zukav?

  I became an infantry officer. I went to jump school. After that, I became a Green Beret officer. I went to Vietnam. And all of this showed me the power of intention. I was sitting in my room, in my, with my roommates in our suite at Harvard, where I went, did undergraduate work, and got a degree. Although that was another story, that was a long road. But on my wall, I had poster of paratroopers exiting, floating down under their canopies. I was probably the only person at Harvard to put that on my bedroom wall.

• 33:27Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 33:28Gary Zukav?

  And I had brochures that I got from the Army of fellows locking out of a submarine at night with their faces painted in camouflage paint. These were Army Special Forces.

• 33:38Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 33:39Gary Zukav?

  And I wanted to be those guys.

• 33:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So you were at Harvard, you had this on your wall, dreaming of it, thinking of it, visualizing it, and you wanted to manifest it?

• 33:49Gary Zukav?

  I didn't think of it that way, but that's exactly right.

• 33:52Lewis Howes?

  That's what you're, you were living in that dream on a daily basis. You'd wake up.

• 33:56Gary Zukav?

  I made it my reality. It wasn't a dream. I wanted to be a Special Forces.

• 34:01Lewis Howes?

  How can someone who has a dream manifest that dream? What's the process that you used?

• 34:08Gary Zukav?

  I wasn't thinking of it in terms of a process. All I knew was, I was so insecure. I didn't even know I was insecure. I thought I was superior to everyone and everything.

• 34:23Lewis Howes?

  You thought you were superior, but you were very insecure.

• 34:26Gary Zukav?

  Absolutely. Everyone who thinks they're superior is that.

• 34:30Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 34:31Gary Zukav?

  Look at our new president, and you can see the depth of insecurity there. And that is synonymous with the depth of pain.

• 34:38Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 34:39Gary Zukav?

  Pain that drives the need to control the world.

• 34:42Lewis Howes?

  What was the pain that you had that made you feel insecure? And then made you addicted to sex in the future, and made you macho and all these things?

• 34:57Gary Zukav?

  We are incarnations, partial incarnations of a soul. When I say "we," plural, when I say "I am a partial incarnation of a soul." So, the fears, the frightened parts of my personality and yours, some of them have their origin, have a familial or cultural origin. Some of them have as their origin, experience in this lifetime. But others go beyond that. A fear or a painful part of my personality, frightened part, might have come from 300 years ago. And it's happening now.

• 35:42Gary Zukav?

  The history of it is not important. What's important is what's happening now. That's all that's important, because there is only now. There's not anything else. Don't think in terms of a future, because there is no such thing. You won't make plans in the future. Whatever plans you make, you're gonna make now. Because there's always, only now.

• 36:10Lewis Howes?

  But you knew in that moment at Harvard, that you wanted to create something for your life. You wanted to be a special forces, right?

• 36:16Gary Zukav?

  Exactly.

• 36:17Lewis Howes?

  In the future. But you're visualizing in the now, that dream, correct?

• 36:21Gary Zukav?

  Yes, that's correct.

• 36:23Lewis Howes?

  So how do we live in the now, but also dream about creating our future now?

• 36:30Gary Zukav?

  I'd say, well, first of all, I didn't know then what I know now. And so I can speak from this perspective now. I have a non-physical teacher, an angel. And I have another one also, and so did Linda, same one.

• 36:55Gary Zukav?

  And I asked my teacher once.

• 36:59Gary Zukav?

  I told him, "I want to die consciously. I want to be aware when I die. How can I do that? How can I die consciously?" He said, "Gary, I suggest that you focus on living consciously."

• 37:15Gary Zukav?

  Because what I know now that I didn't know then, and I will share with you and with our viewers, you are your perceptions.

• 37:25Gary Zukav?

  They're not happening to you. You're not having them. You are your perceptions.

• 37:31Lewis Howes?

  What does that mean?

• 37:32Gary Zukav?

  It doesn't mean anything. It is a suggestion for you to look at. You are your perceptions.

• 37:41Lewis Howes?

  What are your perceptions?

• 37:43Gary Zukav?

  I am sitting here talking to an old friend, Lewis Howes, in his new studio in another location. And he's had experiences that are different in his life since we last met, and so have I. These are my perceptions. The studio has got black walls. There are two books on this table. Lewis is sitting in front of me. And these will... That's... Now, you ask the question in a way that already gave an incorrect answer. What are your perceptions now?

• 38:22Gary Zukav?

  What are you now? I can answer that in many ways. I'm a powerful and creative, compassionate, and loving spirit.

• 38:32Gary Zukav?

  I'm a universal human. I'm beyond nation, beyond religion, beyond culture, beyond ethnic group, beyond gender.

• 38:44Gary Zukav?

  I am not a child of the universe. I am an adult citizen of the universe. My allegiance is to life, capital L, first, and everything else second.

• 38:58Gary Zukav?

  For example, I am a universal human, first.

• 39:04Gary Zukav?

  And a male second. I am a universal human first. And white second. I am a universal human first. And a grandfather second. I am a universal human first. My allegiance is to life first. And everything else, second. All of these are happening at the same time. And there's only time here in the Earth School. The new consciousness is taking us to these places, Lewis. Not immediately, if it's like in my case. In my case, the big news was there's a new consciousness that's not limited to the five senses. I know that I'm more than a mind and a body.

• 39:48Gary Zukav?

  And so does do the people around me. That was the big news. That was the headliner. It still is, as we're transiting from five sensory to multisensory humanity. But even as we're making this huge shift, this unprecedented epic transformation in human consciousness, we're being called to something beyond. We can't name it, we can't. We can't describe it as a multisensory human can describe the new consciousness to a five sensory human in terms of behaviors. But we feel it.

• 40:33Gary Zukav?

  That is the universal human. And beyond that lie infinite realms of potential and evolution that are beyond human. They're not

• 40:55Gary Zukav?

  Experience of them is not confined to a single focal point.

• 40:59Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:59Gary Zukav?

  Put it that way.

• 41:00Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 41:01Gary Zukav?

  This is the, we call this path, we're on a path and we call it evolution.

• 41:09Gary Zukav?

  And this evolution is taking us in this direction.

• 41:13Gary Zukav?

  How fast you go there is up to you.

• 41:16Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 41:17Gary Zukav?

  Because you are a chooser. And here again, words don't travel there. You are not a chooser, you are choice.

• 41:26Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 41:27Gary Zukav?

  You cannot not choose. And at every moment, you're brought to a place of choice. And the choice is always the same. Between love and fear.

• 41:39Lewis Howes?

  So when you were in the dorm room then, and you had images of special forces, uh, individuals in the army, um, how are you choosing then to create that vision and bring it to your reality?

• 41:55Gary Zukav?

  I went down to the army recruiting storefront and I joined the army.

• 41:59Lewis Howes?

  That's it?

• 42:00Gary Zukav?

  Yes, that's the first step.

• 42:02Lewis Howes?

  Uh-huh.

• 42:02Gary Zukav?

  You can't sit around thinking of a future and think it's going to happen, you gotta do it. And I didn't think in those terms, I just did it.

• 42:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 42:09Gary Zukav?

  And I remember talking to the sergeant there and he said,

• 42:14Gary Zukav?

  "Fill out these forms and the army is, the army is going to give you one of your top three choices of any job in the army." So I took his forms and I wrote infantry, infantry, infantry. And he was from the south and his face lit up, ear to ear grin and he said, "Boy, you're gonna get just what you want."

• 42:38Lewis Howes?

  Wow, okay.

• 42:40Gary Zukav?

  And I was, I got an appointment to Officer Candidate School in Fort Benning. And I was commissioned as a second lieutenant. Well, first of all, I went to Fort Gordon for basic infantry training. I stayed at Fort Gordon for advanced infantry training. And then the special forces were recruiting. And that was a fork in the road for me because I could be an officer in the infantry or a special forces troop, which is what I wanted. But I wanted to be an officer more. I'd had enough of kitchen duty and being enlisted. I mean, so I got commissioned, went to jump school. From there, went to Special Forces Officer School in Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

• 43:26Gary Zukav?

  And there was sent to the first Special Forces Group, Okinawa.

• 43:32Gary Zukav?

  And from there, I went on TDY, Temporary Duty, to Vietnam with an A-team. A Special Forces A-team, that's 12 men. Two officers, a captain, and a first lieutenant. I was a second lieutenant. Louis, that's impossible.

• 43:48Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 43:49Gary Zukav?

  Everyone was in awe. There is nothing in the TOC, the Table of Organization. Do you, whatever that is. Whatever that is. There are no second lieutenants in the Special Forces. None. I went to the first Special Forces Group and was the XO of an A-team as a second lieutenant. And probably the only one that graduated from Harvard.

• 44:11Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Why do you think your personality went into war, essentially?

• 44:18Gary Zukav?

  It wasn't war, it was more personal than that. I wanted to kill. I wanted to kill somebody. I was that angry.

• 44:25Lewis Howes?

  What were you angry about?

• 44:26Gary Zukav?

  Everything. Everything. My name, who I was, the people I was with, what I was around. I could never see the beauty in anything. It was always just the way it is. And I was living in some wonderful places like North Beach in San Francisco.

• 44:42Lewis Howes?

  You're going to Harvard, top school in the country.

• 44:47Lewis Howes?

  But you were angry at everything.

• 44:49Gary Zukav?

  Well, first of all, I went from Pittsburgh Senior High School in Pittsburgh, Kansas, to Harvard. And there's a difference.

• 45:00Gary Zukav?

  The only reason I got into Harvard, I feel, was because of my debate teacher, Dan Tool, in Pittsburgh. He loved his students. Almost as much as he loved golf, probably more. And I was a star. We won so, we won state championships, we won so many things.

• 45:22Gary Zukav?

  A star because when you debate, you're on a team, a two-person team. Actually, there's two teams, one's debating negative, but anyway, we won a lot of.

• 45:33Gary Zukav?

  Trophies. And then I decided to apply to school. No one in my family had ever gone to college. This is one of the great gifts of my family. I always knew I would go to college and they expected me to. So when the time came, there was one other fellow from Pittsburgh that was at Harvard, Tommy. He said, why don't you apply? So I did, I applied to two schools. One of them called it, and I got accepted to both. One of them called itself the Harvard of the Midwest. The other was Harvard. Was that Washington University? No, it was Northwestern. Northwestern, there you go. And I went to Harvard. There you go. And I got out of the taxi from Logan Airport, walked through the gates into Harvard,

• 46:18Gary Zukav?

  one of the gates into Harvard Yard and felt lost. Really? And that never left me through four years, more than that, because I quit Harvard. Halfway through my junior year, I quit. At that time, there were three fellows that were murdered in Philadel- in Mississippi.

• 46:39Gary Zukav?

  Scherner, Chaney, and Goodman were their names. And I knew I was going there. I didn't know why. I didn't have an agenda. I just knew I was going Mississippi. Yeah. And I did, I called the NAACP office there, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, and I said, I want to come and volunteer. They said, don't come, we don't need you. We don't want you. I can, I went anyway. And when I got there, I met Charles Evers, who was the director then, the brother of Medgar Evers, who was murdered in that position earlier for holding that position. And they were so kind to me. I mean, they didn't want me, but they did help me find a room to rent.

• 47:27Gary Zukav?

  And I'd never been to Mississippi. I put on my best summer suit. I went to a weapon, a gun store to buy a gun. I was that insecure.

• 47:40Gary Zukav?

  And I'd never been to a gun store and there was filled with lethal looking weapons, mean looking things. And the store was filled with men, admiring them and handling them, fondling them lovingly.

• 47:54Gary Zukav?

  And I realized in that moment, if I were black, I would quickly be dead in that store. It was that simple and that profound.

• 48:06Gary Zukav?

  I bought a semi-automatic pistol.

• 48:08Lewis Howes?

  That day?

• 48:09Gary Zukav?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:09Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 48:10Gary Zukav?

  And I took it back to my rented room and I buried it in my suitcase under some clothes. The next time I went to look for it, it wasn't there.

• 48:20Gary Zukav?

  Charles and my new friends were preventing me from experiences that I didn't even know I could have. Experiences that were ugly beyond my belief.

• 48:31Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 48:32Gary Zukav?

  So I stayed in Mississippi and I was walked around with a black colleague, knocking on doors, getting people to vote. And the shock when someone would come to this green door and see me. But we did it. And that was my summer, my first summer. That isn't when I quit Harvard. That's the summer before. I went to Jackson, Mississippi and came back. But I learned things that Harvard was never going to teach me.

• 49:09Lewis Howes?

  What did you learn?

• 49:10Gary Zukav?

  I never thought about putting it into words.

• 49:14Gary Zukav?

  Fear. Awareness of fear. I was a white sea. I was, no, I was a white face in a sea of black faces. And it was only that sea, that ocean of black faces that kept me alive.

• 49:28Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 49:29Gary Zukav?

  Really.

• 49:33Gary Zukav?

  And when I came back to Harvard,

• 49:36Gary Zukav?

  Harvard wasn't anymore real to me, but that experience was real. And the next summer, I decided to quit. So I went to the dean's students, and I told him, "I'm quitting." And he said, "We'll hold your place." I said, "You don't have to do that. I'm quitting." He said, "We'll hold it anyway, in case you change your mind." I said, "I'm not going to, but..."

• 50:00Gary Zukav?

  He said, "We'll hold it anyway," and that was the end of the conversation. I was... He politely ended it. So I left.

• 50:08Gary Zukav?

  He also said, "Have you told your father?" I told everyone else, "I'm quitting. I'm quitting."

• 50:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 50:14Gary Zukav?

  "You, the dean, I'm quitting." But when I went home to tell my dad, no one in my family had ever gone to college, and I was quitting Harvard. And I said, "Dad!" I couldn't talk. I'm thinking, "Ha, I quit here." And I left. I got a ticket on the Queen Elizabeth going to London. I'd never seen the ocean before. It was amazing.

• 50:40Lewis Howes?

  How long was that ride, that boat ride?

• 50:43Gary Zukav?

  I was only thinking about the young women on it.

• 50:48Gary Zukav?

  And when I got to London, my parents would never let me buy a motorcycle. First thing I did was buy a Triumph Speed Twin.

• 50:54Lewis Howes?

  Wild.

• 50:56Gary Zukav?

  And I rode it all over Europe, up and down Europe, across Europe, from the north part of Europe, Nordkopp, the farthest north, down to Morocco, out of Europe on the south.

• 51:10Gary Zukav?

  And at the end of that time, I was in Istanbul, the fabled Constantinople on my imagination.

• 51:22Gary Zukav?

  And I knew, Louis, I knew something as clearly as I know I'm talking to you. I knew I must not go further east.

• 51:32Gary Zukav?

  I must not. I'm at the top of a slippery slope and that with those words and that image exactly. And if I slide, if I start down it, it's going to take me to experiences that I did, I do not want.

• 51:46Lewis Howes?

  You mean traveling east?

• 51:47Gary Zukav?

  Yes.

• 51:48Lewis Howes?

  You mean crossing the bridge over to Asia?

• 51:50Gary Zukav?

  Yes.

• 51:50Lewis Howes?

  From Istanbul?

• 51:51Gary Zukav?

  I wanted to go to into the Khyber Pass. That's a well-known name now and a mournful one to millions of Americans. But I knew I should not do it. So I went back. And it happened to be a year later and I went right back into the next semester of my junior year.

• 52:08Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 52:09Gary Zukav?

  Very.

• 52:10Lewis Howes?

  Well, part, part of this, where you're at in this story, it sounds like you knew you wanted to go to college, but then you knew you wanted to leave college. But then you went traveling around Europe, but then you weren't supposed to go anymore and you came back. And part of this goes back to one of the questions I'm curious about is how do we know what our soul truly wants? You had different things and then you stop and you go back and you try here and you come here. For someone watching or listening in their twenties or thirties who's like, I don't even know what my soul is. I don't know what my soul wants versus what my desires want or my ego wants. How do I know which one is really soul's desire versus ego desire versus what my parents or my dad wants to do? How do we truly know what our soul wants us to do?

• 52:52Gary Zukav?

  You listen to somebody like me or like you. I didn't know then either. And I didn't know until I met someone, a woman, that I thought I wanted to spend my life with. And by then I'd gotten a little past just the sex part. Not a whole lot. And at one point, we even made plans to get married.

• 53:15Lewis Howes?

  How old were you then, around then?

• 53:20Lewis Howes?

  Twenties, thirties?

• 53:22Gary Zukav?

  Must have been late thirties.

• 53:24Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 53:24Gary Zukav?

  Cause The Dancing Willie Masters had been published then and I wrote that in the mid seventies.

• 53:29Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 53:30Gary Zukav?

  I was in San Francisco. And at one time she came to visit me.

• 53:37Gary Zukav?

  And she said, I channel an entity. Would you like to meet it? And at that time I had met one other channeled entity.

• 53:46Gary Zukav?

  I'd been invited to Sweden to, to a talk, to a conference in Stockholm because The Dancing Willie Masters had won the American Book Award for Science. And I'm not a scientist, but that's why I was invited. And there were three other guys with me. One of them was Edgar Mitchell, the Apollo 14 astronaut. So we all got there, jet lagged, to a little, to an elegant hotel in the woods in Sweden. And the sponsor said, Gary, I have a surprise for you, for all of you. He took us to a room. And there was a middle-aged man with his son, Swedish. And the middle-aged man closed his eyes, seemed to become someone else.

• 54:31Gary Zukav?

  And he was channeling an entity that said he was a 3,000-year-old Egyptian named Ambrose.

• 54:35Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 54:36Gary Zukav?

  I had no patience for this. I was jet lagged, I just wanted to get to it.

• 54:40Lewis Howes?

  Like, what is this? Yeah, yeah.

• 54:41Gary Zukav?

  The next morning, Jan, the organizer, said, Gary, you can come to, you can talk with Ambrose anytime you want while you're here. I had no idea how many people were lined up to talk to Ambrose in Sweden. And as shallow as my experience was with him, I decided I was curious. So he took me back to the room. There was Yora, Stora, the channel, and his son, the translator. And then Stora became Ambrose. And the first thing Ambrose said to me caught my attention immediately and permanently. I had come to Sweden from the desert. I had broken up yet again with another woman.

• 55:24Gary Zukav?

  And each time, earlier, I mean, these women, I was beginning to have actual connections with.

• 55:31Lewis Howes?

  Not just sexual intimacy, but deeper connection?

• 55:34Gary Zukav?

  Exactly. One woman, Margaret, I'll call her in the book. She was interesting. And she loved sex. But we loved bicycling to Sausalito from San Francisco and taking a ferry back. And she was interesting. I really, I really enjoyed her.

• 55:54Gary Zukav?

  And we broke up. And she moved to Vermont. And I went there to see her to try to patch things up, but I couldn't. I mean, uh, she just didn't want to be involved anymore with a narcissistic, someone who was, a narcissist who was addicted to sex.

• 56:11Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 56:12Gary Zukav?

  And thought he was great, but really knew he's very insecure. I mean, inferior to everyone, trying to prove he's not. So we broke up.

• 56:22Gary Zukav?

  And I called in my pain

• 56:27Gary Zukav?

  a fellow that I had heard him talk. His name was Robert Johnson. I don't know if he's still alive, but he wrote the books He, We, She. He's a Jungian analyst. And he said, why don't you come down here? So I drove to San Diego. He put me up for a few days and he said, why don't you go to the desert? We have an old woman who lets us use a house there, the Anza Borrego Desert. And I did. And I stayed there for I don't know how long, maybe a couple of weeks in this little rectangular cinder block house, hot.

• 57:03Gary Zukav?

  And I was so involved in myself, I learned my dreams then.

• 57:09Gary Zukav?

  I learned a lot about myself. And I could hardly speak. I'd go to buy us groceries at a local store and a girl would say, good morning or good afternoon. I couldn't talk.

• 57:20Lewis Howes?

  What up?

• 57:20Gary Zukav?

  I was still in, inside me.

• 57:24Gary Zukav?

  And then Robert called and said, I, I, I, I knew it was time to leave the desert. So I called Robert. And he said, well, you can't stay here. I've got guests. This is how Robert speaks. He's not, he doesn't have strong social skills. But he's wonderful.

• 57:40Gary Zukav?

  And so I went home

• 57:43Gary Zukav?

  to see my parents because I realized it's my dad that I love. I knew I loved my mom or needed her. But I wanted to go home and tell him that before he died.

• 57:52Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 57:53Gary Zukav?

  So I did.

• 57:55Gary Zukav?

  Uh, he didn't understand what I was talking about. But I changed. I stopped trying to change him and that changed everything.

• 58:01Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, you started accepting him.

• 58:02Gary Zukav?

  Yes. Then I went from there straight to Sweden. Because I got the invitation to Sweden before I went to the desert and knew I couldn't go to Sweden. I couldn't talk, much less get present. But now I went to Sweden.

• 58:22Gary Zukav?

  Oh, well, let me tell you about Ambrose. What Ambrose told me, the first words he said is, "How did you learn to understand your dreams in the desert?"

• 58:33Gary Zukav?

  "Louis, no one knew I was in the desert." "Robert knew I was in a desert, but he didn't know what happened there." Interesting. "My parents didn't even know about a desert." "And Ambrose knew I was in the desert and what happened to me there." "I didn't dismiss him anymore." "This was not a shallow conversation anymore."

• 58:53Gary Zukav?

  "This was a most meaningful conversation I'd had in my life until that moment." Wow. "Given to me by an entity I didn't previously believe could exist." "I didn't believe any of that." Wow.

• 59:07Gary Zukav?

  It turned out, so at the end, he said, or in the process, he said, "A small flame has been ignited in you, but it's little like a candle in a cathedral." "And you've got to keep the flame alive." "I said, 'How do I do that?'" "And he said, 'You need to talk to people.'" "And I said, 'But, Ambrose, this, I can't do that.'" "He said, 'You don't need to talk to people, you need to want to talk to people.'" "And then he leaned forward and he extended his hands and he said, 'Will you do this?'" "And I leaned forward and he took my hands and they were so strong, like you were impressed with my strength, I was impressed with his."

• 59:47Gary Zukav?

  "This is supposed to be a 3,000-year-old Egyptian with a grip tight, strong." "And he said, 'Will you do this?'"

• 59:57Gary Zukav?

  "And I was, had moments of repetition, of fear, and then I said, 'Yes, I'll do it.'" "And he released my hands, and that was the end of my first session with a non-physical entity." "I went outside the room, and there was a group of people in the hall, right outside the door of my room, and they..."

• 1:00:17Gary Zukav?

  And I said, "Hi." Immediately, the universe gave me an opportunity. To talk to people. To talk to people, to put into practice what I decided. Why didn't you want to talk to people?

• 1:00:33Gary Zukav?

  Because I was terrified of her.

• 1:00:36Gary Zukav?

  And it turned out that this was a conference on decision-making.

• 1:00:42Gary Zukav?

  Jan told me when I arrived, "I'm so glad you're here. All the big companies are here. Saab, Volvo, the telecoms, the banks." And I spoke about quantum physics. That was, along with whatever Edgar talked about and the other two.

• 1:01:01Gary Zukav?

  So that's the prelude to what happened when this woman said, "Would you like to meet my non-physical entity?" My only experience in that had been with Ambrose. I met him one more time in Sweden. And I asked him, "Ambrose, why do you have to speak to me through a translator who translates for me to speak in English? Couldn't you just talk to me directly?" And he said, "Yes, I could, but could you hear me?" And I knew the answer as soon as I heard the question.

• 1:01:37Gary Zukav?

  So now, when my new friend, my to-be fiancee said what she said, I said, "Yes, I want to meet your non-physical entity." His name was Genesis.

• 1:01:50Gary Zukav?

  I spoke with Genesis.

• 1:01:54Gary Zukav?

  In the morning, we went to a place that was quiet, a room in a large house. And Genesis also knew about me, seemed to know everything about me. I said, "Well, who is your non-physical friend?" She said, "He says you can call me Genesis." I said, "Well, what is Genesis?" And she said, "He says he's an angel."

• 1:02:21Gary Zukav?

  So I met Genesis.

• 1:02:24Gary Zukav?

  And Genesis said, "How can I help you, Gary?"

• 1:02:28Gary Zukav?

  And what I said is, "Well, I think I have some experiences that I'd like to understand, and I've had some

• 1:02:38Gary Zukav?

  issues I've picked up along the way." It was all very obscure like that. What my heart wanted to say was, "Genesis, I can't stop thinking about sex. I can't stop looking for sex. I can't stop having sex, and I have herpes. Can you please help me?" That's what I wanted to say, but I couldn't. I didn't have the courage or the clarity to. And Genesis answered the question in my heart.

• 1:03:06Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 1:03:07Gary Zukav?

  Way. Exactly that. And he didn't even talk about it. He said, "Let us move into healing, shall we?" And that was the beginning of 40 years of talking with Genesis. We talked through that morning. He said, "The issue for you is not the issue of sexuality. It is the nature of love."

• 1:03:30Gary Zukav?

  And we talked about that. So he had expanded my immediate concerns with my addiction to sex and my herpes to the nature of love, a much larger context, richer, deeper. And then before that morning was over, we spoke again that morning, and he said, "The issue is more, it is not the nature of love, it's the nature of power."

• 1:03:52Gary Zukav?

  I thought, "What has power got to do with love? What has power got to do with my herpes and my sexual addiction?" But he explained what I have been, couldn't understand at the time, but have been sharing for 40 years. There's a difference. There's a, these are issues of power, of personal power.

• 1:04:12Lewis Howes?

  Do you feel powerless? Is that's why you were chasing the sex?

• 1:04:15Gary Zukav?

  Absolutely.

• 1:04:16Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:04:17Gary Zukav?

  But I didn't think in those terms. I thought of myself as super cool. I was riding a motorcycle, a leather jacket, doing drugs.

• 1:04:26Gary Zukav?

  The women I was having sex with were like notches on my pistol grip. No

• 1:04:34Gary Zukav?

  connection with them and no desire to have one.

• 1:04:39Gary Zukav?

  It was different with the one that I finally made a connection with that went to Vermont. It was different with this one. This was the first real relationship. This one really hurt.

• 1:04:49Lewis Howes?

  How did you feel like you were able to heal after decades of living in sex and drug addiction? How were you finally?

• 1:04:57Gary Zukav?

  I wasn't addicted to drugs. That never happened. No, I was experimenting and that was a grace, a gift to me. And I never experimented with heavy drugs, heroin, morphine, no. It was grass. It was marijuana. It was LSD.

• 1:05:13Lewis Howes?

  More the sex addiction then, how were you able to heal from feeling powerless to feeling powerful authentically?

• 1:05:21Gary Zukav?

  It's here. It's here. We don't have time to explain it all, but I'll explain a little bit of it. There's a chapter in this book called Addiction. And it's about addiction to sex. But it can be addiction to?

• 1:05:36Lewis Howes?

  Anything.

• 1:05:37Gary Zukav?

  Anything. It's the same process. It started with my friend saying, "You've got a problem." She saw my energy leave me when I saw an attractive woman. It just leapt out at this woman. And she said, "You've got a problem and you've got to fix it if we're going to be together." And I thought, "No, I don't have a problem. I'm a loving person. When I'm with a woman who wants to make love, we make love. Isn't that how it should happen?" And she said, "If you want to be with me, fix this." And so I started a process. "Oh, okay, maybe it's a problem. If it is, it's a little problem." "Okay, I've got a little problem."

• 1:06:20Gary Zukav?

  "Okay, it's a big problem," all the way up to, "My God, I can't stop. I'm out of control. I can't stop." That's when the process began. That's when the work began.

• 1:06:33Lewis Howes?

  That's when the healing began.

• 1:06:34Gary Zukav?

  The work, leading to the other side of this addiction.

• 1:06:44Gary Zukav?

  I'm not using the word healing, because there's nothing that occurs to us, or in us, that needs healing. It is all given to us for a reason, and that reason is our spiritual growth. The frightened parts of my personality and the frightened parts of yours do not need healing. They're not going to heal, they're the same. They're always going to hurt physically, and that's emotional awareness will show you how. Just like the loving parts are always going to feel blissful and good. They're always going to think judgmental and critical thoughts, like, "I don't know how to do this, I never will," or "I know all of this, why is he even telling me that?" "He's so stupid," or "I'm so stupid." These are frightened parts.

• 1:07:28Gary Zukav?

  And when you challenge them, which is part of creating authentic power, it's not to change them, it's to become intimately familiar with them. It becomes intimate with them. So you know exactly what you're challenging. And challenging doesn't mean heal them, it means moving beyond their control consciously. This is creating authentic power.

• 1:07:51Lewis Howes?

  And I think that's what all of us want, is authentic power, not being drawn to something else because we feel powerless. We're going to go have sex, or we're going to go do drugs, or we're going to go get success.

• 1:08:03Gary Zukav?

  I felt that exactly. But I know now, and I'm sharing with you now, that it's not I that felt that, it were frightened parts of my personality. Parts of my personality. Your personality is not a single monolithic thing. It's got many different parts, and they all experience the world differently. Some of them come from fear, some of them come from love. And creating authentic power requires becoming aware of all of them with emotional awareness, and then consciously choosing.

• 1:08:37Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:08:39Gary Zukav?

  For example, when a frightened part of your personality is active, and you're in pain...

• 1:08:47Gary Zukav?

  That is a time that you can use your will, your volition, to put your attention into a loving part. A time when you were loved and loving, and you knew it. And then choose in that moment to act and speak from the loving part while you are experiencing the painful physical sensations and the critical judgmental thoughts of the frightened part. That is the moment of creating authentic power. That's when the rubber meets the road.

• 1:09:17Lewis Howes?

  What I'm hearing you say is authentic power is not reacting to your circumstances or to your environment based on how you feel, but feeling and knowing that there is sadness or fear and security in a situation, but rising above it and responding with authentic power in a conscious way, not a scared way.

• 1:09:37Gary Zukav?

  Yes, functionally, that's exactly right. The way you expressed it is a little more poetic in the actual functioning of it. I wasn't thinking these things. I just knew, "I'm not going to, I'm not going to do this anymore." But it wasn't as simple as that. You don't say that to an addiction and it stops. You go through it. You experience the pain under it. The frightened part under it is pain. The pain of powerlessness. What is the pain of powerlessness? Everyone has it. Five-sensory humans, multisensory humans. It's the experience of wanting to belong and not belonging. It's wanting to be loved and knowing you're unlovable. It's wanting

• 1:10:22Gary Zukav?

  to love and knowing you're not capable of loving. It's wanting...

• 1:10:28Lewis Howes?

  Wanting to be enough.

• 1:10:31Gary Zukav?

  Yes, at least enough. Frightened parts want more. They want to be more, much more. It's a bottomless pit of what they want. Admiration. Not just sex, money, education, the best equipment to ski on, dreadlocks down to your waist. Whatever it is that impresses and manipulates people, they want it. And they have to have it because this is a matter of... Life and death in a way for them is very. Look at our president, look at the people with him. Look at the extent to which they must have power. The external part. Manipulation and control.

• 1:11:15Gary Zukav?

  It's not a by the way, this is what I'd like to do with my life. They're controlled.

• 1:11:20Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:11:20Gary Zukav?

  They have no ability to say no to this. They do.

• 1:11:26Gary Zukav?

  They do not because they're still in the old consciousness. Limited to the five senses. In which power is exactly that. It serves no purpose to try to confront that with more of the same.

• 1:11:41Lewis Howes?

  You have an amazing quote in The Seed of the Soul about this. Where you say the remedy for an absence is a presence. Evil is an absence and therefore it cannot be healed with an absence. By hating evil. Or one who is engaged in evil, you contribute to the absence of light. And not to his presence. Hatred of evil does not diminish evil, it increases it. And that's a quote from your book Seed of the Soul.

• 1:12:10Gary Zukav?

  That's what we're talking about now.

• 1:12:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and so when we when we see something that is evil in the world or evil in our world through our friends or our family, our community, or politically, whatever it might be. When we see something that is evil or is perceived as evil. I'm hearing you say that hatred of evil does not diminish it, it increases it. So when we talk about evil and speaking bad about it, it sounds like it increases hatred in the world. So how do we flip that and bring light to hatred when everything seems to be in chaos?

• 1:12:47Gary Zukav?

  Hatred isn't something you can bring. Evil isn't something you can bring light to. You are the person who changes yourself. Don't think you're changing evil. That's trying to change the world. That's looking at evil as something that exists outside of you. That's why we have no alternative but to love our new president. It's as simple as this. If you lash out against the darkness, you yourself enter the darkness.

• 1:13:14Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:13:20Gary Zukav?

  If you have no compassion for someone who has no compassion, what's the difference between you and them?

• 1:13:30Gary Zukav?

  It's not easy to do this. It's not easy to create authentic power. Do you have the courage? Do you have the commitment? Do you have the compassion? Can you communicate consciously and lovingly? Compassion is not for cowards.

• 1:13:48Gary Zukav?

  Do you have the courage to look at your own life? And without judging it, experience the parts of your personality that are out of your control. Become intimate with them and challenge them. Not because they're wrong, but because you intend to move beyond the control of them. And as you create authentic power, you do not do something good. And as you choose not to, you do not do something bad. You change the experiences that you're going to have in your life. It's as simple as that. You don't get rewarded for doing right or punished for doing wrong. There is no right and wrong, good and bad. These are the dualities in the Earth School.

• 1:14:31Gary Zukav?

  The universe looks in terms of cause and effect. And if you participate in a cause, you will participate in the effect. The cause is always intention. Intention is a quality of consciousness. Not the intention to go to Europe, the intention to have a family, the intention to be a welder. These are goals. An intention is not a goal. Is it the energy behind the goal? Precisely. It's the reason. It's the reason you speak, the reason you act. Is it coming from love? Or is it coming from fear? It's not the action that creates the consequences. It's the intention. Look at the golden rule now as the multisensory human that you are.

• 1:15:15Gary Zukav?

  It does not do unto others what you would have them do unto you. It is intend toward others, which you want them to intend toward you.

• 1:15:27Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting, because you can do unto others, nice things, but not have it from a nice intentional place.

• 1:15:34Gary Zukav?

  Lewis, this is-

• 1:15:35Lewis Howes?

  You can be pleasant, you can, "I'm gonna give them a gift, I'm gonna say the right things." But if you're feeling negative about this-

• 1:15:42Gary Zukav?

  It's coming from fear.

• 1:15:44Lewis Howes?

  If you're feeling resentful, or comparing yourself, or you're jealous, or envious, or righteous, or judging about them, then your intention is out of alignment from your action.

• 1:15:55Gary Zukav?

  This is precisely so. Lewis, in my opinion, this is why your podcast is so wonderful, and has so many viewers, because it is substantive, it is real. And you go to the heart of what your guest is offering. And this offering, and what we're talking about now, is the substance of your life. You are dealing with the matter of your life. When you choose to create authentic power, to challenge a frightened part of your personality that wants to be right, that wants to control, that wants money, sex, love, whatever it is,

• 1:16:37Gary Zukav?

  you are enabling yourself to create. Let me put it this way, a responsible choice is a choice that creates consequences, for which you're willing to assume responsibility. So when you use your volition, your free will, to choose to act or speak from a loving part of your personality, while you're experiencing the frightened part, you are creating the consequences that love creates. They're constructive, healthy, life-giving, life-nurturing, fulfilling, exciting, vitalizing. And when you speak from fear, or act from fear, or don't speak from fear, or don't act from fear,

• 1:17:21Gary Zukav?

  you are creating the opposite, consequences in your life that are unhealthy.

• 1:17:28Gary Zukav?

  Destructive, contracting, and it lead to emptiness, and meaningless, and pain, and loneliness, that activate other frightened parts of your personality. There's no way that you can please a divinity, or anyone else. The universe is not looking at that. It's looking at your spiritual growth. And the Earth School is offering you the opportunity to learn the most important, fundamental, and spiritual growth: choice. Your ability to choose, and your responsibility for what that creates. Without that, no further progress is possible.

• 1:18:14Gary Zukav?

  That's how important the Earth School is.

• 1:18:16Lewis Howes?

  Right. So how important is it then? Or I guess, how important is having a meaningful intention when trying to manifest our dreams? And being appreciative and grateful of the dreams when we receive them? Because a lot of times, we can accomplish the goals, but it's still not feel enough.

• 1:18:37Gary Zukav?

  Oh, this is common.

• 1:18:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:38Gary Zukav?

  This is common. If you read biographies of billionaires, it's not only billionaires who are discontent, but you would think, from the old consciousness, from the perspective of the old consciousness, that if they can buy whatever they want, whatever woman they want, whatever man they want, whatever home they want, and how many, as many as they want, that there must be some satisfaction in that. But that is not a pinnacle. It is simply an experience. And we have experiences in the Earth School. As long as you are striving for something to fill an emptiness in you, there's nothing wrong with that.

• 1:19:22Gary Zukav?

  There's nothing right or wrong with it. But that itself is the pursuit of external power, and it produces only violence and destruction. In your life, as well. That's why we heard to talk about love.

• 1:19:36Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:19:37Gary Zukav?

  That's why...

• 1:19:40Gary Zukav?

  We're alive. That's why we have a life in the earth school. And I know, my life has gotten simple. I know that I, I don't try to control my life or what's in it. I'm not responsible for that. I am responsible for my choices.

• 1:19:59Gary Zukav?

  And that.

• 1:20:00Lewis Howes?

  That's it.

• 1:20:01Gary Zukav?

  That's it.

• 1:20:02Lewis Howes?

  So how can someone then get clear on the intention they want to set up for themselves? Say if it's a teenager trying to get into a good school. If it's someone in their twenties trying to get a great career, someone in their thirties trying to get.

• 1:20:16Gary Zukav?

  You're going back to the same question again and again. And I love you for it because you're trying to support people.

• 1:20:22Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:20:23Gary Zukav?

  Who are most in need of support.

• 1:20:24Lewis Howes?

  Yes. How can they start to, what's the intention of it like?

• 1:20:27Gary Zukav?

  You experiment with your life. You follow your meaning. If you're drawn to read a book like this or to listen to a podcast like this, listen to it. And then follow the counsel that I offered as a possibility at the beginning of this podcast. If you hear anything that I say or that Lewis says in this podcast or with any of his guests in any of his podcasts that resonates with you, experiment with it. And just listen to it. Don't just say, that was nice. Ooh, I like that. Or, oh, I don't like that. Experiment with it. Take it into your life. Apply it.

• 1:21:02Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:21:02Gary Zukav?

  And see what it produces. And if it doesn't produce what you want.

• 1:21:09Lewis Howes?

  Keep experimenting.

• 1:21:10Gary Zukav?

  Keep experimenting.

• 1:21:11Lewis Howes?

  You have this quote which says this as well, in The Seed of the Soul, which again, I want everyone to get this book because if you're feeling confused, this is going to give you a lot of clarity to start with. Then we've got Universal Human, which will talk about true authentic power. But your quote on this is really interesting, in The Seed of the Soul. You say that the decisions that you make and the actions that you take upon the earth are the means by which you evolve. At each moment, you choose the intentions that will shape your experiences and those things upon which you will focus your attention. These choices affect your evolutionary process. This is so for each person. So you're reinstating this part of the book right now

• 1:21:55Lewis Howes?

  about finding, following the meaning, where you're feeling the meaning, the experiences and experiencing them, looking for counsel along the way to reflect on these things and seeing essentially.

• 1:22:09Lewis Howes?

  If you feel like you're out of alignment, or you're disconnected, or it's dis-ease everywhere in your life, then you're going against the mothership of your soul. And the goal, what I'm hearing you say, is that the different personality within you, you want to try to align it within the wake of the mothership, so you can drop in and ride that wave, like you talked about surfing in the beginning, and kind of like a wake surfer, just ride the boat's wake and let it pull you towards the life you're meant to be living.

• 1:22:41Gary Zukav?

  And it will. Now, for me, this meant an insecurity so deep, I couldn't recognize it. It led me to be a paratrooper, a special forces officer. It took me right out of Harvard and put me on a dirt road in Laos, called the Ho Chi Minh Trail.

• 1:23:00Lewis Howes?

  I've been to Laos. It's a cool country. I mean, it's a different world, but yeah.

• 1:23:06Gary Zukav?

  It's not the geography that makes the place you visit. There's an old saying, "When you've

• 1:23:14Gary Zukav?

  traveled with your feet, you're a tourist. When you travel with your heart, you're a pilgrim."

• 1:23:21Gary Zukav?

  I wasn't even a tourist in Laos. I was a frightened, petrified young man, living boy, older boy, trying to live up to the image of myself as an officer.

• 1:23:36Lewis Howes?

  You're a man-child. You were like in a man's body, but you're living like a scared boy.

• 1:23:41Gary Zukav?

  These are psychological terms, poetical terms. It all comes down to your awareness of love or fear. And why I'm saying these things is

• 1:23:54Gary Zukav?

  when you don't know, experiment. I experimented. I was compelled.

• 1:24:01Gary Zukav?

  To find and have sex. And it didn't satisfy me. It almost cost me. Later, when I was more aware enough to actually care for someone, it was gonna cost me that. Caring that person. I thought that my future was with that person, but it was in more. And everyone lives a blessed life. Don't think that you don't. You are a blessing. And you're closing the distance between that reality and your self-image. And that takes work and commitment and courage. That is creating authentic power. And that's what the seat of the soul is about.

• 1:24:46Gary Zukav?

  By the way, I have a podcast now, too.

• 1:24:48Lewis Howes?

  I know.

• 1:24:49Gary Zukav?

  Oh, do you?

• 1:24:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I've heard about it. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:51Gary Zukav?

  It's just a 20 minutes of me sharing on Mondays. I call it a soul feast. And then on Fridays, there's a four or five minutes of from our archives, Linda sharing or some video. I call it a soul snack.

• 1:25:07Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 1:25:08Gary Zukav?

  So I invite you to snack or feast. And it's about things that you and I are talking about now. This is why I love talking with you, Lewis, because I love talking with everyone about these things. And that's what I do on this podcast. And if you want to hear more about what Lewis and I are talking about, listen to this interview again. And if you want more than that, listen to any one of the 20 minute soul feast that I

• 1:25:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's at seatofthesoul.com/podcast or anywhere you guys listen to podcasts, you can check that out. Great stuff over there.

• 1:25:43Lewis Howes?

  You talked about, I want to ask you about karma. Because I've heard you mention this before. For those who maybe are in, again, 20s, 30s, 40s, whatever age group you're in. If you feel like you've done bad things in the past, maybe you've hurt people, you've been judgmental of people. Or maybe you've physically harmed environments or situations. Where you feel like, mm, I was a bad person. I did bad things. Maybe in your case like

• 1:26:06Gary Zukav?

  Let's take out the judgment. I did this.

• 1:26:08Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:26:09Gary Zukav?

  It's a frightened part of your personality that's saying, that's bad because I could have and should have done good.

• 1:26:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, better.

• 1:26:15Gary Zukav?

  You did what you did.

• 1:26:17Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:26:17Gary Zukav?

  Now, what are the consequences? You're experiencing them. They're coming to you. Every moment in your life is a karmic necessity. It's not random. It's not punishment, and it's not reward. You might say, "Who wrote this life that I'm living now?" You did.

• 1:26:37Gary Zukav?

  When you encounter something that you don't like, that you've... Or...

• 1:26:44Gary Zukav?

  Makes you angry, or feel... And... Let me put it this way. Suppose you're in a boat. Imagine you're in a boat, in a river. And you're... The only one. You're guiding this boat. And while you're in the river, another boat, bam, slams into your boat.

• 1:27:01Gary Zukav?

  And you wanna say, "Hey, wake up. Just pull your head out and look at where you are. You're not the only one in this river. You don't own this river. I am in this river too." So what are you doing? Just on and on. That's a frightened part of your personality. That will just spring into action if you don't have the ability to create authentic power and challenge it. Now, suppose same thing happens, but the boat that slams into your boat is drifting. There's no driver. Do you go into the same rant? There's no one there to rant to. No, you just do what you need to to get your boat away from that boat and get on down the river where you wanna go. Well, when you see that

• 1:27:46Gary Zukav?

  every moment is a karmic necessity, there's no one in the other boat, who are you gonna rant? Who are you raving at?

• 1:27:52Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:27:53Gary Zukav?

  You're trying. It's a frightened part of your personality.

• 1:27:58Gary Zukav?

  Trying to find a villain, because it's a victim.

• 1:28:04Gary Zukav?

  You are not a victim. Frightened parts of your personality are. Don't use these powerful words, "I am", and put something in back of it, or in front of it.

• 1:28:15Gary Zukav?

  Because...

• 1:28:18Gary Zukav?

  Instead, realize that you are experiencing frightened and loving parts of your personality.

• 1:28:26Gary Zukav?

  And when you experience your own karma, the very things that you've created, you have a choice. Those are the choice points. I told you I'm responsible for my choices.

• 1:28:37Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:28:37Gary Zukav?

  You are too.

• 1:28:38Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:28:39Gary Zukav?

  So is everyone who's listening.

• 1:28:40Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 1:28:42Gary Zukav?

  So, when you run into something that you yourself have created, you can... That's a choice. You can react to it with fear. Blame someone else. Why was I born with polio? How come I have a child that needs a heart implant? How come my beloved died?

• 1:29:04Gary Zukav?

  And then you can either react with fear from a frightened part of your personality, or with love.

• 1:29:11Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 1:29:12Gary Zukav?

  Respond with love.

• 1:29:15Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I've heard Joe Dispenza say that your

• 1:29:20Lewis Howes?

  personality is your personal reality. So if you're living in a frightened personality constantly, you're going to create a personal reality that is always on edge, or frightened, or worried, or...

• 1:29:33Gary Zukav?

  That's what we're talking about.

• 1:29:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:35Gary Zukav?

  Joe's got it. That's right.

• 1:29:37Lewis Howes?

  And if your personality is...

• 1:29:39Gary Zukav?

  In my opinion.

• 1:29:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. If your personality is, "I'm safe, I'm loved, I'm enough, I'm going to take moment by moment, I'm going to be present", you're going to create that reality.

• 1:29:49Gary Zukav?

  Here's the thing. Uh, yeah, it's not quite that simple from my perspective. I can say "I'm safe, I'm loved", etc. all day long and still feel frightened.

• 1:29:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:59Gary Zukav?

  Frightened.

• 1:30:02Gary Zukav?

  To me, the only way to change,

• 1:30:06Gary Zukav?

  yes, the way you hold things, the way you experience something depends upon how you hold it. No two people have the same reality. You create your experiences of the world with your choices. Now, up to here, we're talking about the same thing.

• 1:30:24Gary Zukav?

  But you're talking about affirmations. Let's see, "I'm brave, I'm thin, I'm muscular, I'm an athlete, everyone loves me." That's a lot like masturbating now that I think about it. It's not going to produce anything that is going to be helpful to you and it's going to drain your energy. And it doesn't involve anyone else, it's all fantasy. When you have the courage and the commitment and the tools, which are in the seat of the soul, to experience intimately the frightened parts of your personality and challenging them, move beyond their control.

• 1:31:05Gary Zukav?

  When you do, you are cultivating a loving part of your personality. And love begins to fill more of your field of awareness. Yes. The affirmations, "I'm loving, I'm lovable," are not helping you because if you don't have the ability to recognize a frightened part of your personality and challenge it and cultivate a loving part when you do feel loved and loving and you are loved and loving, instead of dismissing it, saying, "Wow, that was a great experience." "Three days ago, oh, listen, I had a great..." "What was it? I can't remember, but it was a great experience." Don't do that.

• 1:31:46Gary Zukav?

  Whenever you're feeling that experience, that grace, and it can come as grace, note it, write it down if you have to do. This is when it happened on April 8th. "I loved everybody, I didn't understand it." "Or I saw something about someone I used to hate and I love him now." "Or I can't hate him anymore because I know where he's coming from." Cultivate it. Cultivate it and then use that when you need that.

• 1:32:19Gary Zukav?

  In the process of challenging a frightened part. When you put your personality, your awareness, your attention into a loving part of your personality, you can use this one. Then you become loving. Affirm all you want. There's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with this or right with that. The point is, what are you creating? What's your experience? What is it teaching you about you, not about the world?

• 1:32:47Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:32:48Gary Zukav?

  Without judgment. The universe doesn't judge you, so why should you?

• 1:32:55Gary Zukav?

  Well, you do anyway. It's not you, it's the frightened parts. So as you're becoming aware of them, you can challenge them.

• 1:33:03Lewis Howes?

  Yes. Challenge them, go back into cultivating the loving part of you, the awareness part of you, and fill that with love is what I'm hearing you share.

• 1:33:12Gary Zukav?

  Yes.

• 1:33:13Lewis Howes?

  I want to ask you-

• 1:33:14Gary Zukav?

  Act, not fill that with love. Act on that love. Act on that energy. The energy of joy, the energy of fulfillment, the energy of meaning. And your life will take you where it needs to take you. Mine took me into an addiction of sex, then to

• 1:33:37Gary Zukav?

  all the places it's taken me. And yours is doing the same.

• 1:33:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:42Gary Zukav?

  Yours is doing the same. So I really appreciate your question. How do you help someone who doesn't yet understand where meaning, that sense, that word, meaning, comes from?

• 1:33:55Gary Zukav?

  Experiment.

• 1:33:56Lewis Howes?

  Experiment.

• 1:33:56Gary Zukav?

  Experiment.

• 1:33:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:58Gary Zukav?

  But I didn't even know enough to experiment. All I knew is I wanted sex.

• 1:34:02Lewis Howes?

  You're just chasing-

• 1:34:03Gary Zukav?

  With women. I wanted sex with women.

• 1:34:05Lewis Howes?

  And I guess-

• 1:34:06Gary Zukav?

  This one will work.

• 1:34:07Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:34:07Gary Zukav?

  If I'm attracted to her. If she's strong and vibrant and knows who she is. No attraction. I have no attraction for that. I had no attraction, my frightened part did not. It always sought out the weakest woman in the room. The woman that could be seduced. The woman that needed something to fill the hole inside of herself. That's what a sexual addiction is. It's as ugly to understand and see as it is to experience. But I didn't experience it that way. But it was a road I was on and it took me where eventually I am now. It was one of the steps.

• 1:34:45Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Well, I mean, speaking of that, you know, you went through decades of having

• 1:34:52Lewis Howes?

  really just intimate partners, but not true intimacy with women, right? You had a lot of sex.

• 1:34:58Gary Zukav?

  No, there was no intimacy in the sex.

• 1:35:01Lewis Howes?

  You had sex, but no intimacy or real connection, authentic connection, right?

• 1:35:04Gary Zukav?

  No connection, period. Authentic, inauthentic, I didn't care. All I wanted was sex. They were genitals to me. And all I wanted was more. That was all my frightened parts wanted.

• 1:35:15Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:35:16Gary Zukav?

  And because I didn't know what I'm sharing with you now, what I learned from Genesis, I thought, I wanted that. I thought that's who I was. And so for you out there, it doesn't matter if you're 20 or if you're 83, allow yourself to experience in you

• 1:35:36Gary Zukav?

  the grace of who you are.

• 1:35:40Gary Zukav?

  That means entertain what you actually are, which is a powerful and creative, compassionate and loving spirit, incarnate for a limited period of time, which now, as we become multisensory, we realize is only something that exists in the Earth School. But since it exists, since it's one chapter in a book, what are you going to write in that chapter?

• 1:36:07Gary Zukav?

  Your soul is the book.

• 1:36:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:09Gary Zukav?

  It doesn't have an end. And so it's not as though you're reaching for this place that's perfect. And when you find it, that's heaven, that's the end of it, one and done.

• 1:36:23Gary Zukav?

  You're always going to evolve. There's nothing in the universe that doesn't evolve. The universe evolves. Relax into that.

• 1:36:30Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:36:31Gary Zukav?

  Relax into your life. Because there's only one reason you have for being in the Earth School and that's to learn love. Choice, yes. As you, as your consciousness expands, you find that your intellect cannot contain it, cannot even grasp it. And so there comes a time when it's appropriate to

• 1:36:56Gary Zukav?

  There comes a time when it's appropriate to experience the cessation of understanding, of meaning, and instead to focus on the giving and sharing of joy. And that's where your consciousness is leading you.

• 1:37:11Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:37:15Lewis Howes?

  With all of your experience of the sex addiction then transitioning into having, you know, a beautiful spiritual relationship with a life partner for decades as well. How did you learn to shift out of the temptation world of pleasure-seeking and sex-seeking into true intimacy and spiritual partnership with the partner that you've had for so long?

• 1:37:42Gary Zukav?

  Well, now, and still have.

• 1:37:48Gary Zukav?

  Your question brings me back to the one we started to discuss, temptation.

• 1:37:53Lewis Howes?

  Because a lot of people are struggling and trying to find a spiritual partner. They want love, they want intimacy, but they struggle in relationship. And I'm curious, with all of your experience, how were you able to create that? After years of struggling and finding love and intimacy as well?

• 1:38:07Gary Zukav?

  This is another question. One of them is about temptation and the other is...

• 1:38:11Lewis Howes?

  I'm asking you like five in one, yes.

• 1:38:13Gary Zukav?

  Okay. Well, they're both important because one of them will help understanding and the other's fundamental.

• 1:38:21Gary Zukav?

  Temptation, most people think of as an external something caused by an external malevolent entity. In the West, it's called the devil. But whatever you term it, and in every in many traditions, religious traditions, for example, Christ was tempted

• 1:38:47Gary Zukav?

  by what were called demons then.

• 1:38:51Gary Zukav?

  You can control the world with what you know now. You can have any woman you want.

• 1:38:57Gary Zukav?

  You can control armies.

• 1:39:00Gary Zukav?

  You have the world at your feet. Jesus. Think about that. You have armies, you have banks, you have nations.

• 1:39:12Gary Zukav?

  And for a moment, that temptation was real.

• 1:39:18Gary Zukav?

  For a moment. And had he chosen that instead of the path of glory that he chose, we would never have heard about him.

• 1:39:30Gary Zukav?

  When Siddhartha waked up under the Bodhi tree.

• 1:39:36Gary Zukav?

  Before that happened, same thing, he was tempted. The demons were throwing spears at him, spears at him. Look at that woman, look at that money, look at that chariot gilded in gold. Look at that palace, Siddhartha came from a palace, he was a prince. Said, "That's nothing Siddhartha, you've got all the palaces in the world."

• 1:40:00Gary Zukav?

  Temptation comes from frightened parts of your personality. Every temptation is a dress rehearsal for a negative karmic event.

• 1:40:14Gary Zukav?

  It's not something external to you. It's the masterpiece of a frightened part of your personality, showing you exactly what it intends to do if you don't intervene.

• 1:40:29Gary Zukav?

  It shows you what it feels like. The satisfaction you're going to get, the pleasure you're going to get, how you're going to carry it off.

• 1:40:39Gary Zukav?

  A dress rehearsal is the last step before a production goes public.

• 1:40:46Gary Zukav?

  When you act on the temptation, the doors to the theater open and the public comes in. And this temptation, this energy, this action spills beyond your personal energy sphere and into the energy sphere of others. That is the moment that karma is created.

• 1:41:06Gary Zukav?

  You can think about it as much as you want, but when you act on it, the action is the choice. I've been saying I'm responsible for my choices. It's not, "I think I'll choose that, I think I'll choose this." It's what I do and the intention behind it, that creates karma. That creates my world. That creates my experience of the world. I am a unique expression of the universe. And so are you. And so is everyone.

• 1:41:39Gary Zukav?

  That's how powerful you are. You are that.

• 1:41:45Gary Zukav?

  You are all that is.

• 1:41:48Gary Zukav?

  There is one, and all is that. That's where our consciousness is leading. And if you resonate with that, even if you think that's impossible, it's nonsense, that's imagination, that's... If you resonate, if something says,

• 1:42:05Gary Zukav?

  "Yeah, but, you know, why is it, yeah, but..." Follow that. Don't let a "yeah, but" get in the way

• 1:42:12Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:42:13Gary Zukav?

  of your meaning. And I'm going to feel more and experience more so I can answer better when we talk again. How do you talk to a 20-year-old? Doesn't have to be 20, it can be 30, it can be 45, it can be 85.

• 1:42:28Lewis Howes?

  Or just someone looking to create a spiritual relationship with someone, not...

• 1:42:33Gary Zukav?

  That desire will do it. I know when I moved to Mount Shasta, there came a time when I thought, "I think I want a partner." And I wrote a list of all the things I wanted in a partner. And I looked around me and I thought, "Well, all the women here are my sisters. I'm in a wonderful community. I don't want that." And I thought, "Well, I think I have to move back to San Francisco. There's a lot of potential there." But that didn't appeal to me at all, and I forgot about it. And eight years later, Linda appeared in my life. And as I mentioned, my first reaction was to push her away. Then she moved to Mount Shasta and I couldn't understand why I was feeling so happy.

• 1:43:17Gary Zukav?

  Now, this is my life, and I know it so well now because I've been writing this book, The Endless Song, and I relived it. But this time with awareness and compassion for me.

• 1:43:33Gary Zukav?

  And when you start to do that too, you'll begin to appreciate the power of your life, even the moments of powerlessness, of experiencing the pain of powerlessness and reaching out in any way you could.

• 1:43:50Gary Zukav?

  To mask the pain, to cease the pain, to get around the pain. And that's the pursuit of external power. That's what produces only violence and destruction now. Yes. But we are multi-sensory.

• 1:44:04Gary Zukav?

  So you're assuming a 20-year-old, a 40-year-old, that's still five-sensory. They won't understand any of this and they'll dismiss it. But they will give you opportunities as they dismiss you to create authentic power. Are you going to judge them for doing that? Are you going to try to convince them that they're wrong? Or are you going to challenge those parts of yourself? And choose instead to respond with love instead of act with fear?

• 1:44:36Gary Zukav?

  What are you going to do when you see a politician wielding power in a way that's purely destructive? And you know it. Are you going to hate him? Are you going to try and change him? Are you going to get more votes and get him out of office?

• 1:44:50Gary Zukav?

  You're pursuing external power. And you know what it's going to do. It's going to produce violence and destruction.

• 1:44:59Gary Zukav?

  Personal, between people? Physical, between nations? Are you going to participate in that dynamic? Or are you going to bring an entirely new dynamic into the world? Not just into your personal reality?

• 1:45:16Gary Zukav?

  In the old consciousness, there is an uncrossable barrier between in here and out there. And from that perspective, it is ridiculous, ludicrous, to think that you can change the world by changing yourself. That barrier is not a part of the new consciousness. Yeah. And from the new consciousness, it's clear there's no other way you can change the world than to change yourself. Gandhi knew that. Christ knew that. Martin Luther King Jr. knew that. And now you know that, what are you going to do with it? That's with the courage and the commitment and the compassion and the conscious creation of authentic power. You can't create it unconsciously. Every unconscious intention comes from fear.

• 1:46:00Gary Zukav?

  The intention of love requires conscious choice.

• 1:46:05Lewis Howes?

  There's something I want to add to this that you talk about in The Seed of the Soul. This is a quote from you that says, "If you cannot love yourself, you cannot love others, and you cannot stand to see others loved."

• 1:46:17Gary Zukav?

  Yes.

• 1:46:18Lewis Howes?

  Which I think is really powerful. Because most people don't know how to love themselves because we don't feel like we belong, like you mentioned, we feel like we aren't enough, we're not lovable. And when we see others loved, we can't stand that if we don't love ourselves.

• 1:46:37Gary Zukav?

  It's a frightened part of your personality that can't tolerate that.

• 1:46:43Lewis Howes?

  So how do we learn to love ourselves?

• 1:46:45Gary Zukav?

  Here's what you do when you run into someone that you don't like.

• 1:46:50Gary Zukav?

  And you don't know why, you just don't like him.

• 1:46:53Gary Zukav?

  Or her. Make a list, detailed, of everything you don't like about that person. Well, he's self-centered, he doesn't think about anybody but himself. First of all, he's sort of dumb. Secondly, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Third, he's always talking. I mean, make the list and make it detailed, what you exactly do not like about that person. Then, spend time going through the list and look for each of those things in yourself.

• 1:47:27Gary Zukav?

  And when you find them, and you will, your heart will melt.

• 1:47:34Gary Zukav?

  You won't hate him, you won't push him away because now you understand him. Now you have experienced what he's experiencing from the inside out.

• 1:47:46Lewis Howes?

  That's compassion.

• 1:47:48Gary Zukav?

  That is compassion.

• 1:47:50Lewis Howes?

  Especially when someone you really don't like, or who's really hurt you in the past, or done you wrong, or taken advantage of you. It's like learning how to have compassion, not meaning you have to be that person's best friend or even have them in your life. But how can you have compassion for someone you truly despise? That's another level of authentic love.

• 1:48:12Gary Zukav?

  Now you're twisted, that your part is twisted in the words. It's only a frightened part of your personality that despises.

• 1:48:20Gary Zukav?

  That is repelled and attracted to.

• 1:48:24Gary Zukav?

  So it is valid to say, how do you love? How do you love someone you hate?

• 1:48:32Gary Zukav?

  This is what we're talking about. This is your job. My friend Ram Dass once said, "I intend that my life be a statement of love and compassion, and where it's not,

• 1:48:53Gary Zukav?

  paralyze my work."

• 1:48:55Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:48:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's tough.

• 1:48:59Gary Zukav?

  It's beautiful. It's powerful. It's not tough. It is power.

• 1:49:02Lewis Howes?

  Powerful, but that's...

• 1:49:03Gary Zukav?

  That's pure power.

• 1:49:05Lewis Howes?

  That it's powerful to live into that, but that's...

• 1:49:07Gary Zukav?

  You don't live into it. You choose it. You choose it. You don't lean into it, live into it, stumble over it, find it, get rewarded to it. You choose it. We learn in this Earth School about love. Not love that we find, stumble over, get given. Love that we choose.

• 1:49:24Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:49:26Lewis Howes?

  Even when you don't want to choose it?

• 1:49:28Gary Zukav?

  Even when a frightened part of your personality doesn't want to choose it. If you don't want to choose it, you don't. The frightened part of your personality never does. Now, what do you choose?

• 1:49:42Lewis Howes?

  What is your authentic power choose?

• 1:49:47Gary Zukav?

  Authentic power is becoming the authority in your life.

• 1:49:53Gary Zukav?

  What do you choose? When I went through the process of moving through my addiction to sex, there were a lot of things that occurred to me, experiences. One was,

• 1:50:06Gary Zukav?

  can I create a temptation that's more than I can resist?

• 1:50:11Gary Zukav?

  And the answer is yes. That would be my way of unconsciously giving myself permission to behave unconsciously. I can create a temptation that I can't resist. And then there came a time at the very center, the very center of this journey, the middle of it, the difference between going in and going out, the epicenter, where it all happens and it all is. And I realized, it's all up to me. I looked around me in my apartment, there's no one there. Am I going to stop this behavior or not? If I don't, there'll be learning, more learning in it, in that path.

• 1:50:55Gary Zukav?

  And the universe will not judge me. And if I do, I'll be on another path. And there'll be learning on that path. And the universe is not going to judge me. And there's nothing in me, nothing, that was leaning me in the slightest, in one direction or the other. The power was entirely in my hands. It was terrifying. That's the moment that returns. If you're aware, again and again, the power is in your hands. Are you going to choose to react from a frightened part of your personality? Or respond from a loving part?

• 1:51:39Gary Zukav?

  No one can do it for you. No one wants to do it for you. And anyone who does is trying to manipulate you and control you. It's yours to choose. It's why you were born.

• 1:51:50Lewis Howes?

  That's ultimate courage, to choose that.

• 1:51:52Gary Zukav?

  It's the new use of courage. Yes, I had courage, I always had courage. I could jump out of planes. I could parachute, I can go on a night equipment jump. That took courage, raw courage. But it was only courage to have people in my, using it to have people admire me. Say, yeah, what a guy. This is the new use of courage.

• 1:52:14Lewis Howes?

  This is like your soul's courage.

• 1:52:18Gary Zukav?

  It's your courage. You're choosing to align your personality in that moment with your soul. That's where we started. This is authentic power, the alignment of your personality with your soul. Your soul intends harmony, cooperation, sharing, and reverence for life. Look at the people, the five-sensory people who are craving a government now. Instead of harmony, they're choosing discord, competition, hoarding, exploitation. The contrast is graphic.

• 1:52:59Gary Zukav?

  The characteristics of an authentically powerful personality are humbleness, clarity, forgiveness, and love. Look at the person who is leading our country. You're only seeing the frightened parts of his personality. And they are vain, confused about the difference between what's good for it and what's good for others. Unforgiving and vengeful. That is not he. Those are frightened parts of his personality. Interesting. And when we see that, it's easy to love him. Hmm, that's interesting. Gandhi saw that.

• 1:53:43Gary Zukav?

  He was taken from a British prison on instruction from London to the Viceroy's palace. The Viceroy said, "Bring me Gandhi." The Viceroy was the one who ordered the beatings, the exploitation, the driving into starvation an entire population so that a few autocrats could go on tiger hunts and safaris in Africa and live in multiple estates. But Gandhi never confused his intention to challenge those policies with his relationship with people.

• 1:54:28Gary Zukav?

  When he arrived in the palace in these dirty prison clothes, the first thing he said was...

• 1:54:39Gary Zukav?

  Oh, it touches me so much. Because I'm still striving for that. When I end that, it won't bring tears. He said, "Your Excellency, I know I have done things that have been irritants to you, but I hope that will not stand between us as men."

• 1:54:57Gary Zukav?

  That's the way we can relate to everyone on the earth, in the Earth School,

• 1:55:06Gary Zukav?

  including those who are still five sensory.

• 1:55:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you talk about the five sensory in here as well in The Seed of the Soul. You have beautiful kind of diagram talking about this. I just saw it here a second ago. From five sensory human to multi-sensory human, from single object of detection to uses five senses and aware of non-physical reality, which is a lot of different detail in here on page 250 of Seed of the Soul. I want people to dive in more. If you're not understanding this fully, it'll give you more explanation.

• 1:55:41Lewis Howes?

  I've got a couple of final questions for you, Gary. This has been really powerful. And we'll have to do another longer episode as well in the future. We're almost in two hours now. And again, we said before we could go for three, four, or five hours because we're just getting started, but...

• 1:55:55Gary Zukav?

  We could go for days.

• 1:55:57Lewis Howes?

  Days.

• 1:55:58Gary Zukav?

  Because Louis, your life is this. You're not inviting guests and sort of saying, "Well, what do you think? What do you think?"

• 1:56:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:08Gary Zukav?

  You are...

• 1:56:12Gary Zukav?

  I am beginning to appreciate

• 1:56:15Gary Zukav?

  the effort that goes into the School of Greatness.

• 1:56:19Lewis Howes?

  Thank you.

• 1:56:19Gary Zukav?

  It's not simply showing up twice a week to interview guests. I'm seeing in your interview with me what you're doing between those times. You're reading what those guests are saying, and you're doing more than reading. You're really thinking about them. And seeing how you can integrate them into a framework that you can present that will support. And in some cases, like mine, I think, you just let it be, say, listen to this. And in other cases, you think you can perhaps be more supportive to your listeners. And I'm guessing that you might, I don't know what you're gonna do with our conversation.

• 1:57:01Gary Zukav?

  But I do know that I love you, and I know that I love the people who are listening to us. And that's my intention, is to share with love, to be with love, to speak with love, to sleep with love.

• 1:57:15Gary Zukav?

  And eventually, that's not an affirmation, to be love. And that's not an accomplishment. It's a realization of what I am and what you are.

• 1:57:27Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:57:28Gary Zukav?

  That's not the goal. You are already there. It's only your awareness that's expanding. As you become more loving, you don't add more love to the universe. That's meaningless. The universe is love. But you change your awareness. And as you do, you become more and more godlike, you might say. And then you become God.

• 1:57:55Gary Zukav?

  This is the new consciousness. And that's a step in the evolution that billions of souls are taking.

• 1:58:04Gary Zukav?

  But we're...

• 1:58:07Gary Zukav?

  Words simply don't travel, even up to this place. But I hope I picked some that have been helpful.

• 1:58:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, very helpful. And I want people to get, I've got a couple of final questions for you. But I want people to get the book, Universal Human, which is about creating authentic power and the new consciousness. But obviously, start with the seed of the soul. If you haven't, if this is kind of one of your first time coming to the School of Greatness, and you wanna learn more about this stuff, get this book first, dive into it. You're, you call your beloved Linda. You were together, your spiritual partner, together for twenty...

• 1:58:42Gary Zukav?

  Twenty-seven.

• 1:58:43Lewis Howes?

  Twenty-seven years. You had a beautiful letter that you wrote about her when she, I guess you...

• 1:58:49Gary Zukav?

  When her soul went home.

• 1:58:51Lewis Howes?

  Soul went home.

• 1:58:51Gary Zukav?

  Soul returned to non-physical reality.

• 1:58:53Lewis Howes?

  Over the last couple of years ago.

• 1:58:57Lewis Howes?

  What was the greatest, what is the greatest lesson she has taught you since her soul has returned home?

• 1:59:04Gary Zukav?

  Well, I've had two pivotal moments that changed me. One was Linda coming into my life when I had that feeling of happy.

• 1:59:14Gary Zukav?

  And a new experience in my life of loving, loving Linda. I didn't know that could happen. I never loved anybody, but I love loving Linda. And this continued. And we had power struggles sometimes, but I don't think more than five or six in 27 years.

• 1:59:35Gary Zukav?

  But it was never a question other than she wasn't my partner. I love her completely. And I know she loved me completely, and that was never a question.

• 1:59:44Gary Zukav?

  And it isn't now.

• 1:59:47Gary Zukav?

  The second point was when her soul went home. When I came home from the hospital and Linda didn't. And I was there alone. Cool. And the pain began. Cool. And I didn't think I could live through that, and I didn't want to. I asked for death. Oh, man.

• 2:00:07Gary Zukav?

  But...

• 2:00:11Gary Zukav?

  That wasn't given to me. I remember saying, "Oh, I'm gonna die anyway.

• 2:00:19Gary Zukav?

  Make it now, please."

• 2:00:25Gary Zukav?

  The next morning, I was sitting by a pool, watching some trees sway in the wind. And I realized something about myself. I don't have a reason for living now. Hmm. Except to love people. And that's permanent. And those changes have been, of that magnitude, have been happening since then.

• 2:00:50Gary Zukav?

  So on another show, we can go into a show just about that, because...

• 2:00:56Gary Zukav?

  Most people have a reaction like I used to have when someone say, "My wife died, my child died," and say, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry for your loss." I say, "No, we can celebrate her life with me."

• 2:01:11Gary Zukav?

  Because this is the return home of a soul. And it's led to such interesting experiences, Lewis. I want to share them with you and I want to share them with our audience. And I have, by the way, you can go to some of them, but I mean, I can bring us up to date.

• 2:01:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:01:30Gary Zukav?

  Like, you go to the Seat of the Soul, and in the menu, there's somewhere called a Celebration of Linda. We decided, we have a support team, who are my spiritual partners too. We come together in the spring and in the fall. We're coming together in a couple of weeks, in fact, in Ashland. And Linda's just passed on, and we were all in shock and jolted, and we were laughing and crying.

• 2:01:59Gary Zukav?

  We decided to make a video to celebrate her life, and we did.

• 2:02:04Gary Zukav?

  So, I knew just the place to make it, and we made it.

• 2:02:11Gary Zukav?

  And afterwards, we all went out to eat. There were about 20 of us. So we went to this restaurant, it was a nice restaurant. And after everyone ordered, the server came up and said, "Would you like this on one tab, or would you like separate tabs?" And I said, "Separate tabs." I always did that, because I was always stingy with money.

• 2:02:39Gary Zukav?

  And I couldn't let that go. I had to run after her and said, "No, I changed my mind. Put it on one tab and give it to me."

• 2:02:48Gary Zukav?

  And I wanted to do that. No second agenda. I wanted to do that.

• 2:02:54Gary Zukav?

  And the next morning, the thought came to me. I'm generous.

• 2:03:00Gary Zukav?

  And I am. I mean, and every time these things happen, every time anything happens, I say, "Thank you, beloved. Thank you."

• 2:03:10Gary Zukav?

  I often, a frightened part of my personality will often want to go back and be with Linda in the Earth School and be the way I am now, so I could love her more clearly and support her better.

• 2:03:24Gary Zukav?

  But I can't, because I am the way I am now because her soul went home.

• 2:03:31Gary Zukav?

  But she's here. She's here. And it was very confusing at first, because I know she's here, but I miss her. And then this continued until not too long ago, when Linda came to me once. And, oh, the intimacy was amazing. Wow. Genesis has told me, "Gary, you're going to experience intimacy with Linda even more than you experienced when you were in the Earth School with her," which I could not have imagined, because it was so good, so complete, so easy, so wonderful, so no words, complete. I would tell her, "Beloved, I love you completely. There's no other way."

• 2:04:15Gary Zukav?

  "I can't love you more. I can't love you less."

• 2:04:19Gary Zukav?

  And I thought, "That was so intimate, so good." But when she came to me a month or so ago, that was intimacy that I could never have imagined could exist in the universe. And I learned something also, even before then. The love that people experience in the universe between themselves. For example, your love for Matita

• 2:04:47Gary Zukav?

  is a training exercise for the love of the universe that you will experience when you go home. Wow.

• 2:04:56Gary Zukav?

  It's a joy talking with you, Larry.

• 2:04:57Lewis Howes?

  This is beautiful. This is beautiful, and I want people to get more. Again, start with the book, The Seed of the Soul, or you can start with your podcast, seedofthesoul.com/podcast for these kind of 20-minute, bite-sized soul snacks, I think you call them.

• 2:05:13Gary Zukav?

  You can see it on YouTube and the website on video and everywhere else on audio, all those other places.

• 2:05:21Lewis Howes?

  Well, Gary, I want to acknowledge you for the human you are and the person you continue to choose to create to be, which is compassionate, loving, courageous, giving, present, connected, and a generous human being. And I'm just really grateful for your time, your energy, your presence, your wisdom, your lessons, your correcting of me when I forget to use the part of me that is frightened saying. And I'm just so grateful for your time. I think this is going to really inspire and help a lot of people that watch and listen. And I want people to dive in deeper on your work, because I think it is so powerful in

• 2:06:06Lewis Howes?

  how we can reflect on the parts of us that are afraid or insecure or unlovable, or the parts of us that feel those things, and how we can start to choose a different path moving forward.

• 2:06:18Gary Zukav?

  Thank you.

• 2:06:18Lewis Howes?

  Into alignment, into harmony, into peace.

• 2:06:21Gary Zukav?

  Yes. Thank you. And it's not my work. This comes straight from an angel.

• 2:06:28Lewis Howes?

  Well, you packaging the information and putting it out there.

• 2:06:31Gary Zukav?

  Yes, it's my packaging. It's my wrapping.

• 2:06:33Lewis Howes?

  You wrapping it and putting it on text and sharing it is helpful. We all need information that we can understand, because all this information is coming through us in some ways, but how we can communicate it effectively so others can understand.

• 2:06:49Gary Zukav?

  Thank you. That is important.

• 2:06:51Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 2:06:51Gary Zukav?

  This is my gift. This is who I am, expressing my contact with the Angelic Room.

• 2:06:59Gary Zukav?

  And so many people around us now are expressing the same insights, the same openness, the same transformations, but they're doing it in terms that are meaningful to them and that are expressing the uniqueness of their lives.

• 2:07:13Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 2:07:14Gary Zukav?

  And that's, that's the new consciousness.

• 2:07:17Lewis Howes?

  You're doing amazing. I have one, one final question for you. Um, I asked you this last time, so I'm gonna ask it in a little bit different way. If you could go as far out in the future as possible, to the last day, you get to live as long as you want to live, but it's the last day for you. What's the piece of advice your future self would give your current self on how to live the most beautiful time for as much time as you can live left?

• 2:07:55Gary Zukav?

  That sentence is, that question is framed in a way that doesn't touch it.

• 2:07:59Lewis Howes?

  What do you think your wiser self?

• 2:08:02Gary Zukav?

  The last, there isn't a wiser self of me in the future. There's now. This is it. You're talking to him. You're talking to this soul. And at the last moment, whatever that means, it's gonna be now, and it will still be talking. And my experiences will still be who I am. And so will your experiences. Your perceptions will be who you are, and my perceptions will be who I am. And it's going to be now. I mean, the future does not exist. Now exists. Whatever could.

• 2:08:42Lewis Howes?

  That's a great answer. I'll take it. I'll take it. Kerry, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you. This is beautiful and powerful, and I'm inspired by everything you share. Thank you very much. I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy. And if you're looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to makemoneyleasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

• 2:09:27Lewis Howes?

  Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.