The Biohacks Ben Greenfield No Longer Uses (and What He Does Instead)

It’s been five years since Ben Greenfield joined me on The Dr. Hyman Show, and a lot has changed. Ben isn’t doing many of the things he once swore by. In fact, he’s discovered that some of the most powerful practices for health and longevity are simpler and more sustainable than the extreme routines he became known for. In this episode, we talk about the biohacks he’s left behind, the innovations he still uses, and the deeper priorities that now guide his life. Join us on YouTube for the full talk or listen wherever you get your podcasts. [YOUTUBE THUMBNAIL] We discuss: • How much exercise is truly healthy, and when it starts working against you • Simple training shifts that build strength and stamina while protecting long-term health • What recovery tools can actually speed healing and reduce inflammation • Can light and oxygen really reset your body’s rhythms and improve sleep? • Why community, family, and spiritual health may be the most overlooked keys to longevity True longevity isn’t found in extremes—it’s built through balance, connection, and simple daily practices that stand the test of time. View Show Notes From This Episode Get Free Weekly Health Tips from Dr. Hyman https://drhyman.com/pages/picks?utm_campaign=shownotes&utm_medium=banner&utm_source=podcast Sign Up for Dr. Hyman’s Weekly Longevity Journal https://drhyman.com/pages/longevity?utm_campaign=shownotes&utm_medium=banner&utm_source=podcast Join the 10-Day Detox to Reset Your Health https://drhyman.com/pages/10-day-detox Join the Hyman Hive for Expert Support and Real Resultshttps://drhyman.com/pages/hyman-hive This episode is brought to you by Sunlighten, Paleovalley, Function Health,Timeline, AirDoctor and LMNT. Visit sunlighten.com and save up to $1400 on your purchase with code HYMAN. Get nutrient-dense, whole foods. Head to paleovalley.com/hyman for 15% off your first purchase. Join today at FunctionHealth.com/Mark and use code HYMAN100 to get $100 toward your membership. Support essential mitochondrial health and save 10% on Mitopure. Visit timeline.com/drhyman to get 10% off today. Get cleaner air. Right now, you can get up to $300 off at airdoctorpro.com/drhyman. Get a free LMNT Sample Pack with any order—just head to drinklmnt.com/hyman.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Coming up on this episode of the Dr. Hyman Show.

• 0:02Speaker 01

  I have learned a lot since being fooled into thinking that you can out exercise your diet and like chronic repetitive motion exercise is the healthiest way to go. Now, I'm a huge fan of walking.

• 0:14Dr. Mark Hyman?

  These are all biohacking tools. You only keep three practices. What would they be?

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Ben Greenfield is a world renowned biohacker and performance coach.

• 0:22Dr. Mark Hyman?

  From world-class endurance to leading breakthroughs in human health.

• 0:25Speaker 02

  He's spent decades testing what actually works.

• 0:28Dr. Mark Hyman?

  What's emerging around rejuvenation practices that are a little bit strange?

• 0:33Speaker 01

  The newer thing that I just discovered is salmon sperm.

• 0:37Dr. Mark Hyman?

  What I'm hearing you say is that some of these technologies that have helped us in many ways live better also have a dark side.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  There's even a term called the paradox of loneliness. I think it was Surgeon General in 2023 identified loneliness as the equivalent of smoking like 15 cigarettes a day. And I used to think you got to make the money first.

• 0:54Dr. Mark Hyman?

  What made you kind of flip in terms of your priorities?

• 0:57Speaker 01

  Almost getting a divorce.

• 0:58Dr. Mark Hyman?

  We seem to be in a protein craze right now. Are we kind of going overboard on the much protein side?

• 1:03Speaker 01

  I would hate to cause people to think that they shouldn't prioritize something like.

• 1:14Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Well, Ben, it's been a while. It's been about five years since you've been on the podcast. You know, you've been a really instrumental figure in helping a lot of people figure out how to up level their health. There's a term that's thrown around a lot by, by people in the space called biohacking. It's like.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  It's thrown around a lot.

• 1:30Dr. Mark Hyman?

  In some ways I, I like the term, in some ways I don't. And the way I think about it, and I'd like you to define it is, is the way I think about it is, is anything that's going to help you optimize your health or improve your body's own functional systems. And how do you, how do you think about biohacking? And what would, how would you define it?

• 1:48Speaker 01

  I would say anything that you can use to optimize your cellular or metabolic health that would be considered something that allows you to do it in a more time efficient or efficient way than you might be able to do in a native state.

• 2:02Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 2:02Speaker 01

  So you're essentially hacking the OS, you know, using a tool or technology or. Whether it be a peptide or hyperbaric oxygen or red light therapy or anything like that.

• 2:12Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So the Native Americans out west who used to do sweat lodges, they were biohacking.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, you know, technically they created a natural environment in which to increase heat and maybe, you know, if we acknowledge that biohacking would be considered a more scientific approach, maybe if they were inside of some type of a electronically configured machine that could get hotter than they might be able to create with a native sweat tent.

• 2:37Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Those are, those are pretty damn hot. Have you ever been in one?

• 2:39Speaker 01

  They are very hot and dark and there's, yeah, the drumbeat gets pretty loud and you kind of want to bust out of there.

• 2:45Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I agree that the term is used a lot and sometimes if I'm like gonna give a talk on a stage or do a podcast and somebody introduces me as a biohacker, I don't know quite what to think. It seems like, I don't know, they can't have the term biohacker.

• 3:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I mean, Dave Asprey's popularized that and all the gizmos and gadgets and I think, yeah, at a very fundamental level for me though, it's about understanding human biology and, and the levers you can pull to move it toward a state of more vibrant optimal health.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:18Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And there's a lot of things you can do from what you eat to different types of exercise to restoration tools, relaxation, optimizing sleep. These are all kind of in sense biohacking tools.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:30Dr. Mark Hyman?

  But I think the things that I other talked to you about are the things that you've learned over doing this for 20 years about what works, what doesn't work, what's sort of the things that you used to lean on that you've now find maybe aren't all there or cracked up to be. And what are the sort of some of the newer things that, that you maybe weren't doing back then that you maybe have changed and evolved and, and maybe shifted more from just elite sports performance to more enhanced health?

• 3:56Speaker 01

  I would say probably the two top things that come to mind would be my approach to exercise and my approach to community. I was, was hardcore. You know, I, I raced for Team Timex and Ironman triathlon for 10 years. I switched to Reebok and raced obstacle course racing for another four years. Before that, I was two years as a bodybuilder. I mean, literally just like lean, mean, 3% body fat and 215 pounds, just like a piece of. Libidolous muscle who hang out on the couch and go visit the gym and drink protein shakes. So I experienced the extreme. Yeah, not ahead. Ironman, triathlon and bodybuilding. Do not do those sports for health.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Give them for photos and to climb your own personal Mount Everest, but don't fool yourself into thinking that those are actually healthy sports. And I think researchers like James O'Keefe have popularized this idea that there's a so-called Goldilocks zone of exercise, right? Once you exceed, I think it's about 150 minutes of moderate intensity exercise and about 70 minutes of high intensity exercise, which we could define because I think some people get scared when they hear, don't exceed 70 minutes of high intensity exercise until they understand what high intensity exercise truly is. But anyways, once, once you exceed those bounds, then you start to see things like atherosclerosis, increased risk of mortality, arterial stiffness, a lot of the things that you would

• 5:26Speaker 01

  expect if someone was in a chronic inflammatory state without adequate recovery. And, you know, if you look at, I don't know, you know, either the, the bodybuilding or the marathoning craze of the eighties or the surge of CrossFit and fitness competitions, you know, Spartan, high rocks, it's very easy to fall into that category of someone who overexercises. I certainly did for a long time and, um, and experienced a lot of the issues that go along with that, you know, not to mention that I was also one of the early adopters of the whole keto low carb thing for endurance sports, which is another kind of nail in the coffin. If you don't have, it's not a bad approach, but if you excessively restrict carbs, you

• 6:09Speaker 01

  just don't have enough for thyroid, for testosterone, for the, you know, proteoglycans and joints. You can basically destroy yourself with excessive carb restriction married to excessive exercise. Yeah. So I have learned a lot since being fooled into thinking that you can basically out exercise your diet, that the more is better, and especially that like chronic repetitive motion exercise, you know, like running and cycling and swimming that I did a lot of is the healthiest way to go. Now I'm a huge fan of walking. Wow. That's a big Ironman. Walking. Hundred mile races. I run occasionally. So, well, if I'm playing pickleball, I guess that counts as running. Pickleball or family tennis on Wednesday nights and then occasionally when I walk down

• 6:54Speaker 01

  to the mailbox because we have a long driveway, I'll be like, okay, I'm gonna grab the mail and run back up the driveway. Um, yeah, I mean, Mark Sisson just wrote a book about this, Born to Walk, you know, it's about this whole idea that human beings are more biomechanically designed for walking and it's more favorable for cardiovascular adaptations without excess damage to the body compared to running, which I think is a good idea.

• 7:18Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Chase and catch an animal, right?

• 7:20Speaker 01

  You do, but for very short periods of time, not at a slow pace, you know, in short bursts, and I consider that to be like, like a healthy form of running. But yeah, 150 minutes of moderate intensity exercise, first of all, that definition would be not necessarily what people might think of as like going for a walk or gardening or cleaning the garage or even tooling around your house with a 10-pound weighted vest on, if that's your thing. Like, I consider all of that to be just primal, natural.

• 7:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Movement.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Movement, you know, in physiology, you know, you'd call it NEAT, right? Non-exercise activity thermogenesis.

• 7:56Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, I did a lot of that, it's called fidgeting. You used to have the people in the front of my head. My medical school was crazy.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  The fancy name for these, there was, there was actually a study that came out on glycemic variability and doing this, they called them soleus push-ups, which is basically what you and I probably call a seated calf raise. But, you know, those type of little things, none of that falls into the category of the 150 minutes of moderate exercise that if you exceed would be bad for you. We're talking about like the frowny face, like jaunt on the treadmill for 45 minutes a day, or the triathlete or marathoner or swimmer or cyclist who's getting like, you know, one and a half to two hours of moderate intensity aerobic exercise. Definitionally, if you wanted to get into the physiology of it, you know, you've got your aerobic threshold, technically you have, you have two different thresholds that you cross during exercise.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  VT1 and VT2. VT1 is ventilatory threshold 1. That's when it starts to get hard to carry on a conversation and that's when you've reached what's called aerobic threshold. That's what a lot of people now call zone 2. I think, for example, probably Dr. Peter Attia has, has popularized the most, this notion of zone 2 exercise.

• 9:07Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's right, yeah.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Zone 2 exercise, that'd be kind of like the zone you get into when you get to VT1. And then you exercise and exercise and you're gradually burning more and more carbs and less and less fat and lactic acid is starting to build up and you're beginning to be hungry for oxygen and you eventually reach VT2, which is when lactic acid starts to accumulate more quickly than it can be removed. Some people will also call that like the anaerobic threshold. So that 150 minutes of moderate intensity exercise that if you exceed is no longer that great for you is that whole stretch between VT1 and VT2. Right. And so again, most people who are just moving around during the day, they're still below VT1.

• 9:47Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Like I can, I walk on my treadmill sometimes when I'm doing a podcast, right?

• 9:51Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  And that all counts as just, you know, nothing close to the type of exercise that'll be bad for you. And then the 70 minutes that if you exceed that per week is also bad.

• 10:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

  On top of the 150.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. It's not the, the commensarial effect of the two of them. It's like, don't exceed 150 minutes of moderate intensity exercise, or at least try not to exceed it too much. And then also don't exceed 70 minutes of vigorous intensity exercise.

• 10:17Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Within that 150 minutes or in addition, like two 20 minutes or?

• 10:20Speaker 01

  They would be, I, so, so let's say you are, give you an example. Let's say you're an endurance athlete and you're barely doing any vigorous intensity exercise, but you're logging like 300 minutes of moderate intensity exercise throughout the week. You would be past the Goldilocks zone regardless of whether or not you've done the high intensity stuff. And similarly, if you're a CrossFitter who's logging like 100 minutes of vigorous intensity exercise per week, and barely doing any of the 150 minutes of moderate intensity exercise, you'd also fall into that no zone.

• 10:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Interesting.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  That, that would be risky to get into. The 70 minutes, that high intensity exercise, that would be all the stuff that's past VT2. That would be pretty intense burn, going pretty hard. Most people.

• 11:01Dr. Mark Hyman?

  During that.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  You walk into the average gym and one person out of 100 might really truly be in that zone. But it's, there's still a lot of people who do, and keep saying this word. I don't want to throw them under the bus, but like CrossFit six times a week.

• 11:13Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Or, you know, they're training for something very intense, obstacle course racing, you know, an athlete who's heavy in training. Again, like I have no problem with people going out and doing an Ironman or, you know, training for CrossFit or anything like that. What I'm saying is, That I used to think that that was heart healthy activity. And now I can see that, oh, it's it's more something that's great for perseverance, for endurance, for character, and to, again, climb your own personal Mount Everest, but it's not healthy for you. And I used to think that it was, and I changed my stance on that.

• 11:45Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And so the data basically is that if we over exercise in the ways you just talked about, that you increase your risk of inflammation, oxidative stress.

• 11:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 11:52Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Heartymuscular disease, vascular stiffness, all things you don't want as you get older.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:56Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Now, the problem has been, I don't think most people even come close to 150 minutes.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  I think we're speaking to the subset of the population that's like the gym junkies, which, you know, I think is still a significant portion of people. And then the other thing.

• 12:09Dr. Mark Hyman?

  During COVID, I went to Maui, and, you know, there wasn't a lot to do because everybody was like hiding out. So I'd work out, drink, try in the morning, and then I would go for a two and a half hour bike ride with 2,500 feet elevation, get my heart rate up. I don't know, I felt great. Then I might play tennis in the afternoon. I was probably overdoing it.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Possibly, which you can do for for short sense of time. And then the other thing is, like you and I were talking about biohacking. I doubt that any of the studies that have looked into excessive exercise have taken those training populations and given them like Normatec or Hyperice Recovery Boots and a hyperbaric chamber and some red light therapy and cryotherapy and all these things that can accelerate recovery of the neuromuscular and the musculoskeletal systems. So it's possible that if you have the right tools at your disposal, you could go significantly beyond those two zones that have been identified as, you know, excess exercise. So you might be, you might be able to hack it a little bit because I know, like, if I'm able to be at home exercising,

• 13:11Speaker 01

  and I'm using all my special tools at home, like laying on a PMF mat or breathing oxygen or, you know, hitting a red light bed or something like that, I feel way better than if I'm traveling and I do the same workout. I'm just like back into the hotel room. Yeah. So now I walk, I do a little bit of super slow weightlifting, like two or three times a week, moving the, have you done super slow training?

• 13:34Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I've heard about it.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, Doug McGuff, I think he was an emergency room physician.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  He wrote a great book called Body by Science, where he gets into the fact that when you move muscles very slowly, very high amounts of what is called time under tension, up to about two minutes or so, that you can get really great strength and cardiovascular results with a very low amount of training volume and a low risk of injury because you're moving the muscles in a very predictive and controlled fashion.

• 14:05Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And you use heavier weights to do that?

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Use heavier weights. Well, I use, there's a lot of machines now that can make it easier. Like there's the Tonal.

• 14:10Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I have one of those. I was just working out on it.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Tonal's got a setting on there. It's the eccentric setting, the burnout setting. Like you can literally load up your Tonal with, let's say, deadlift, chest press, pull down, squat, row, and overhead press. But there's a setting on the Tonal where instead of choosing the number of reps, you can choose the number of seconds. You set that on 120 seconds and you just do one set of each of those exercises. You put the Tonal on burnout mode and preferably also on eccentric mode, right? So it's pulling you back every time that you're finishing a rep. That would be a perfect example of super slow training. And the nice part about it is it's over with quickly and you get really great strength adaptations with a lower risk of injury. The sucky part about it is it sucks. Like it's

• 14:57Speaker 01

  not only a little boring, but it hurts a little bit going for two minutes and you, you know, you think you're at about like, you think you're at about 115 seconds and you look at the screen and it says like 65 or something like that. There's the ARX. That's the one that I use and that it's kind of a horse. I mean, it literally is like a two horsepower engine. I tell my friends, it's like fighting a giant robot. Of the same thing. That one will push and pull you through a range of motion, but again, it's just one single set for each exercise. So when I'm at home, I do that about three times a week. And when I travel, I kind of try to use like Nautilus machines at the gym or free weights to do the same thing. Or I use blood flow restriction bands, which you can put around the arms and the legs to trick your muscles into thinking they're under a heavier load than

• 15:42Speaker 01

  they actually are because the lactic acid isn't able to get to the muscle.

• 15:45Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I did like 10 pounds with bicep curls.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  It's hard. It's like a leg weakling, but it's great for like rehab or when you don't have access to much training equipment. I mean, if I'm traveling like here in Austin, even though I've actually had access to fantastic training facilities since I've been here, I always throw in my bag, one elastic band, some BFR bands, and one of those door frame suspension straps that you can do pull-ups with. And that's like. Two pounds worth of equipment. Yeah. And I can get a great workout in my hotel room or in a park, just about anywhere. Yeah, so there's some ways to do that. Yeah, walk, I do that. And besides that, just like play pickleball, play tennis, uh, built a frisbee golf course on the new property. So yeah, besides that is just sports. But if you would have talked to me like, back to the root of your question, like,

• 16:29Speaker 01

  you know, 10 years ago, I would have been like, well, I wake up in the morning and I ride my back to the gym and I swim 2,000 meters. Then I go upstairs and I hit the weights and then I ride home and then later on that afternoon, I go for a run. And when you did that, did you feel okay or did you feel badly? I thought I felt okay. And now I have way more energy, way more libido, my inflammatory markers, my lipids, like everything looks way better on blood work. So yeah, I feel a lot better with the, I probably average what someone might call exercise, about 45 to 60 minutes a day. And then everything else is just walking and moving, staying active. That's good. That's good. It's still more than most people do.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  It is, it is more, but it's a, yeah, I would say I've definitely changed, changed my stance on exercise. And now you're, you're, you're heading over 40, right? I'm 43. That's amazing. Yeah. Well, I'm 43, but I was telling you before we recorded, I, I, for the past two days, I've been doing a plasma exchange with the, the little bag that I had infused after I gave two liters of my plasma. It's an 18 to 25 year old, uh, healthy male plasma. And so that was dripping into my body the past couple of days. So I don't know, I might be 18 to 25 now. So send, okay, this is a hole in the rabbit hole. I want to go down, which is, which is sort of what's emerging around rejuvenation practices

• 17:49Speaker 01

  that are a little bit strange. And I want to talk about them because I, I found them very helpful, but there's some really interesting strategies that you can get into.

• 18:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

  When you're older, that really help you to stave off some of the ravages of aging.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:06Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And in your sort of exploration of what's out there, you know, you focus on diet, you focus on exercise, some of these other recovery tools, you know, whether it's red light therapy or a PMF mat or hyperbaric chamber, hot and cold therapy, these are all things that help you heal or recover or repair. What are the things that are, have you found that are, that are now kind of catching your interest as, as innovations that have science behind them that help people to, to deal with the complications of aging?

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Let's see, we could probably chunk it into like, kind of like face, body and internal cellular processes, I would say, and this is something that, that I do on a regular basis. You can get a microneedling pen. Most of the really good face products come out of Korea. They're big on aesthetics and face and beauty there. So you get a microneedling pen, or you can of course, go to a clinic that does microneedling, even though it's a little bit more like, a little bit more ripping effect, you can use a derma roller, you know, consider this to be like aerating your lawn. And then once you've done this, you would apply a product that would allow for renewal of cells or stimulation of collagen or elastin in the face.

• 19:15Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And that stuff really works.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  I mean, if you look at before, after photos of people who do it, I can't cite like a human clinical study that says that it works because this, this is all very qualitative when we're talking about the face. I do that about once a week. My wife does also and then...

• 19:31Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Do you go to a clinic or have a machine that does it?

• 19:33Speaker 01

  She has done both a clinic and then also has a little thing at home that you do it with yourself.

• 19:38Dr. Mark Hyman?

  A little pen? Because this is like, this is like hundreds of needles.

• 19:40Speaker 01

  Well, if you go to a clinic, like they can do it very quickly with like the full on, you know, they have like, I think like

• 19:46Dr. Mark Hyman?

  But it hurts.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  Just a bigger version of microneedling. It's not comfortable. Like it's, it's less than a bumblebee sting, but you can feel it. The derma roller, same thing. It's, the derma roller feels a little bit more abrasive, almost like you're scraping your face. The microneedling feels like teeny tiny punctures, but it's, it's not bad. Some clinics, if you go to a clinic to do it, will literally numb your face before they do it. So you can barely feel anything at all. It's just weird if you have dinner later on, your lips are numb like, like they would be if you left a dentist.

• 20:12Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I went to a clinic, a stem cell clinic in Costa Rica and they basically put, put you asleep and then they, they do the needles and then they put the stem cells in.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you're gonna do a full stem cell protocol or a, um, a cold laser protocol on the face with, which literally makes your face look like you've been hit by a truck for about three weeks. And typically people who do this, you know, if they're a Hollywood celeb and they disappear for a little while, or somebody goes on medical tourism to, you know, Tijuana or wherever, they're disappearing for a while because they just look like trash for about three weeks and then you look fantastic. And I only know this because my wife has done it and she just looks scary and couldn't leave the house for a couple of weeks. And then about a month later, like she was, I mean, she looked way younger. And that was a cold laser with the stem cells.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  But as far as doing something a little less invasive, just self-inflicted derma rolling or microneedling. And then you typically apply a facial product. There are absorbable peptides now, you know, companies like Young Goose or Ollie Tora, who are doing some, you know, peptides like GHK copper peptide, using things like NAD in their face products. A lot of times you'll combine it with something like a red light mask, you know, to, to drive it deeper into the tissue or to enhance the, the collagen attraction to the face or the elastin production. But then the, the newer thing that I just discovered is salmon sperm. I'm not joking, but I was just at a clinic and they told me that they wanted to do that.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  You know, they wanted to give me like an exosome microneedling facial and I'm sitting there nodding and they say, and then we finish it up with salmon sperm. And apparently there, it's some kind of like a DNA isolate from literal salmon sperm. Maybe it's from, from Clearwater down in, or a phenol, I don't know. They got some, they got some Steelhead down there. Yeah. You could probably just like start a milking farm yourself. Uh, but yeah, uh, so salmon sperm is the newer thing that they're putting on people's faces, apparently with very good results.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  That is kinda crazy. So, yeah, for the face typically you are initiating some type of mildly aggressive damage to the face and then following that up with a product that assists with healing, almost like exercise, where you're damaging muscle then allowing it to repair and recover so that it grows back in a more renewed fashion, stronger fashion. Laser or whatever. Yeah, for the body, I think a lot of people already know about stem cells and exosomes. I think there's, there's always been a lot of up and comers in the stem cell industry. I would say the two that seem to be most popular right now in regenerative medicine circles would be something like a V cell, which is a very small embryonic-like cell, I believe is what that stands for, V S E L.

• 22:59Speaker 01

  They'll typically do some kind of injection and then red light therapy, which apparently attracts more signaling molecules to the area that they've injected and that's something that's used for like a joint treatment, for example. And then another form of cells, M U cells. M U stands for multi-lineage differentiated. Stress resistant cell, yeah. Yeah, stress inducing cells, something like that, but apparently they have a really good effect with very good, or less chance of like an immune system reaction in the body, and less, I believe it's called tumoro, you would know this word better than me, tumorogenicity, something like that, so less cancer causing potential. There's always some kind of new forms of stem cells.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  Using those for orthopedic treatments for injuries or trauma or things you wanna repair, yeah. Yeah, yeah, but then as far as biohacking is concerned. Those get very expensive, so like. Yeah, those are, those are spendy things, yeah, but I'm a huge fan of the idea of, and I do this just about every day at home, some kind of electricity, right, to restore the electrical potential of the body, especially considering the electrical soup that we all live in nowadays. Like a PMF mat or? Man-made electrical soup, PMF mat, grounding mat, earthing mat, you know, I'm wearing grounding shoes right now, so these, these shoes allow me to have conductivity when I'm walking outside, you know, I've just built a new house and the house is tricked out as far as like air, light, water, electricity, everything, but for the electrical component, every single floor of the house is grounded with.

• 24:27Speaker 01

  A copper conductive surface that then feeds into the ground. So if I'm on the third floor of the house, it's still as though I'm barefoot out on the planet.

• 24:37Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And you notice a difference now you feel from it?

• 24:38Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. You feel fantastic. I mean, you feel like you're outside as a dirty barefoot hippie. You know, just inside your house during the day. You sleep better, you feel better. PMF mats are kind of like a concentrated version of that.

• 24:50Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And what is, can you describe that? Cause you mentioned a few times, what is a PMF mat? What does it stand for? What does it do? How does it work?

• 24:56Speaker 01

  Electromagnetic field therapy. What PMF stands for, these are usually a mat. Sometimes there's some type of a PEMF unit that is attached to a coil or a bed. There's companies that produce like full on like lounger chairs and massage tables. And usually there is a hertz setting that you can set it on, like anywhere from zero up to in some cases, thousands of hertz and an amplitude or power setting. And when you wrap it around a joint or you lay on one of these, it causes the cell to have an influx of negative ions. So you're essentially depolarizing the cell, you know, and, and so you're supposed to have a slightly negative

• 25:41Speaker 01

  charge on the inside of the cell, slightly positive charge on the outside. And this allows for better blood flow and also allows your cell membranes to have a better electrical charge across the membrane. So you would feel faster, you would have less inflammation, you'd recover better. My favorite way to use it is if I have like a cramp or a tight spot in my back, or like my left knee gives me issues sometimes, I will wrap a PMF coil around that or lay down on the PMF mat on my back. And the higher intensity PMF mats just seem to relax everything. Once you've laid in them for a little while.

• 26:19Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, it's pretty interesting. I had back surgery recently and I got a PMF machine. Yeah. And you lay in this kind of sandwich, there's a coil on top and coil from the bottom. I did it for myself and I would notice it would go right to the area where I had surgery. So it would go right to where the pain was.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  Right. That's very caught like the area that's the Titus is the area that feels like it initially reacts in almost like a nearly like a painful.

• 26:46Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah. And I, and I didn't know that it was, I thought it just goes to everybody like that, like in my hips and my back. And then I had somebody else use it and they're like, oh, it went to my stomach or it went to my shoulder or it went to exactly the area where I'm having challenges. And I was like, that's amazing that it actually seems to go right to where the issues are. And you feel the intensity of it. And you feel, I mean, the one I have particularly is a super high powered one and it it's called the Hugo that

• 27:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:11Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Really you can jack up the current in it and it feels so intense.

• 27:16Speaker 01

  The Hugo and then the other one I know of that's super powerful, the pulse centers. Those would be like the two that are really good for actual injuries. Dr. William Pollock, he has one on his website. Forget the name of it. It's, it's, it's also like a, like a high intensity one. That's good for like back cramps, muscle spasms, injuries, et cetera. And then there's lower intensity ones that seem to induce more of like a full body effect that you'd use for just relaxation or stimulation or wakefulness. Like the one I have underneath the top sheet in my bed is called a pure wave. And that one you can barely feel at all, unlike the Hugo or the pulse centers.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  But it's kind of more like a full body sweep that's alternating between thousands of different frequencies. Whereas like, um, the Hugo or one of these others, you just put it on a certain Hertz frequency, like 7.8 for example, and you just like target a muscle at that frequency for a short period of time.

• 28:15Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah. 12 to 30 minutes.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah. It feels great.

• 28:19Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I threw somebody out there that they had back pain and they were like, ah, this is amazing.

• 28:21Speaker 01

  It's incredible for the back. Yeah. As a matter of fact, I've injured my back a few times in different cities. And one of the first things I'll do is like Google PMF plus the name of this and try and hunt down a mat that I can actually use because it's that effective.

• 28:33Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Wow.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Acute injuries. In addition to electricity, light, use light a lot, not only for circadian rhythmicity, but also for the recovery effects and the blood flow effects.

• 28:45Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Red light therapy.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Red light therapy and also from a circadian standpoint, blue light therapy.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  I mean, you know, the sun has the has this whole bluish green spectrum. It's kind of cool. They even sell meters now where you can hold the meter up and and see the the light spectrum frequency in a different room or where you might be outside. Uh, as a matter of fact, if you have like a pair of blue light blocking glasses or something like that, you can put the lens over the cover of this light meter and actually see what it's actually blocking. Or what it's concentrating, which is kind of cool to see if your your blue light blockers actually work.

• 29:18Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. For example, in my house, what we did was we put throughout the house, uh, bulbs into each can that when you flip on the light bulb, once it will go to daytime mode. You flip it on again, it goes to twilight mode. You flip it on again, it goes into evening mode. So you don't have to have like different lamps and different lamp stands in each area of the house. You've just got one bulb. It's called a full spectrum bulb. Bond Charge makes one, Block Blue Light makes one. Those are two companies that do like a flicker free, right? So there's no backend flicker. If you take a video of it with your, you know, iPhone camera in slow motion, you wouldn't catch a flicker. Which is something that kind of causes a little bit of retinal irritation during the day and eventually can lead to kind of a brain foggy feeling if you've been under

• 30:03Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 30:03Speaker 01

  bright light. You and I were like under these lights all day, we'd definitely feel it.

• 30:06Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Right.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  Cause we're getting a little bit of flicker. And then their low EMF, right? Which is something you also want to take into consideration with your lighting system.

• 30:13Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So basically these are the light bulbs that go in any light socket.

• 30:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And then the main areas of the house, because you're missing out on some of the full spectrum of sunlight, even though they're a little bit more of a power hog. And they're harder to find. We have incandescent lighting, right? So we've combined incandescent with OLED lighting for the circadian rhythm component. And then if I'm, for example, I'm in Texas right now. It is. It's super fun. Um, if I'm in Texas right now and I fly back to, um, to Idaho. At I get home on Sunday. So at 7 a.m. on Sunday morning, or let's, let's put it this way. At I've been waking up about 6 a.m. here. So at 4 a.m. on Sunday morning Idaho time, it will be 6 a.m.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  Texas time and my eyes will probably, you know, flip wide open and I'll be ready to rumble because my body still thinks it's 6 a.m. So the way you can kind of play with circadian rhythmicity is rather than flipping on lights, rather than taking your phone out of night mode, rather than, you know, looking at a computer, you would actually put on blue light blockers. And this is something I'll put on blue light blockers, keep the phone in night mode, keep the lights in the house as dim as possible. And then when the time arrives, when you actually do want to start waking up, that's when you just blast yourself with blue light using either like,

• 31:31Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Sunlight, which you can go out.

• 31:32Speaker 01

  Sunlight, there's devices, let's say, I don't even like Las Vegas, you know, access to sunlight or you can't get outdoors. You can wear glasses, like there's a pair called the I O's A Y O. There's another pair called the re timers and these produce really bright bluish green light that shifts your body into your new time zone more rapidly. And now they even make lenses. So you know, these I just mentioned blue light blockers. Now they have blue light concentrator glasses. That will concentrate just the blue light spectrum from the room or from outdoors. So that in the morning, if you really want to blast yourself with blue light, you just wear glasses that instead of blocking blue light, concentrate blue light, like the first 30 minutes of the day.

• 32:12Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  And this can jumpstart your circadian rhythm and not a lot of this has to do with healing the body.

• 32:17Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Well, I had sleep, I had surgery, as I mentioned, and I, I slept for like four hours a night for a couple of months. And in my recovery, the sleep doctor I was working with, trying to get my sleep reset, had me wear these special things in the morning. And I can show you later, it basically is a, it's like a, put it on, it gives you like bright light in your eyes.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:36Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Glasses that just shoots light.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  And it was like kind of bluish, greenish, bright. Yeah. It's like those seasonal affective disorder lamps.

• 32:43Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Right.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  But they're wearable.

• 32:44Dr. Mark Hyman?

  But you wear it, right?

• 32:45Speaker 01

  Exactly. Right. There was a company, I don't think they're in business anymore. They're called the human. Charger and they were designed to stimulate the photoreceptors in your ears with bright light. I don't know if they still make them, but yeah, there was a time when you could literally have the light in your ears and the light in your eyes. If you wanted to shift your circadian rhythm forward or backward. And of course, the opposite applies also, you know, we'll, we'll dim the lights at night. You know, this is different than like red light panels or red light beds or red light wraparound devices. All I'm a fan of all of those for enhancing recovery and use them almost every day. But I'm more kind of intrigued and find more useful, the idea of using light for circadian rhythmicity. And then oxygen is kind of, that's kind of like a new thing for me. Like you were showing

• 33:30Speaker 01

  me how you have an IHT device, intermittent hypoxic and hyperoxic training.

• 33:35Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And in English, that means you go up to Mount Everest.

• 33:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, you go up to Mount Everest, but without getting off the couch, right? So, so you're basically essentially training your cellular physiology and flooding your cells with oxygen after starving them of oxygen while you're just sitting there. Which is fantastic, especially if you're just watching something or meditating. I think a lot of people find that they almost shift into more of like a theta wave state when they're using something like that. I feel like that in the hyperbaric, actually. So it's good for a nap, good for meditation. Um, another way to starve the cells of oxygen and then flood them with oxygen is called EWT, exercise with oxygen training. And this would be a similar idea, except in this case, you would use, I have a device called the

• 34:19Speaker 01

  Live O2. It's next to my, my exercise apparatus, my, my cardio machine. I can breathe hypoxic air and then at the flip of a switch, for example, if I'm going to sprint, flip it to hyperoxia and flood my cells with oxygen, which normally you'd only be able to do if you were under pressure, like in a hyperbaric chamber. So there's two different ways to do this. You either get into a hyperbaric chamber. Or you exercise or sit while giving your cells hypoxia plus hyperoxia.

• 34:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And then Low oxygen and high oxygen.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  And honestly, like if you, I don't know if you're hungover, tired, if you're just getting started warming up in the gym and you feel a little stale. If you just put on an oxygen mask, if you happen to have one of these devices and just breathe, just put it on full oxygen. You know, so you're breathing like 93% oxygen for the first few minutes of your workout, you feel incredible.

• 35:07Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  You feel unstoppable. I mean, even without a fancy pre-workout.

• 35:10Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So what is a low oxygen state doing? The hypoxia?

• 35:13Speaker 01

  The hypoxia is starving the cells of oxygen. So it's a brief, almost like hormetic effect to where you're going to up-regulate oxygen intake. Once you turn the oxygen back up. So you're basically going to get more oxygen into the tissues than you would otherwise.

• 35:27Dr. Mark Hyman?

  But a lot of these machines, they work on, on helping your mitochondria rejuvenate. That helps you with mitophagy and getting rid of old mitochondria and then helps you create new mitochondria and help them work better.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  Probably the, the mitophagy would be induced by the hypoxic state. Right. You're essentially creating a stressor that kills off old mitochondria and then flooding the cells with oxygen afterwards.

• 35:50Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So mitochondria basically run on oxygen and food.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:52Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's what makes energy.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:54Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's when you start.

• 35:54Speaker 01

  So you're taking away the oxygen. I don't know if it'd work any better if you were in a fasted state, you know, like in a low glucose state also. But electricity, light, oxygen, I would say those are three big ones for me in the whole like recovery, performance department that I use almost every day at home.

• 36:12Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And hyperbaric oxygen chambers also.

• 36:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:15Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Will do something different, but they, they're very effective for recovery.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. You're breathing oxygen. Typically you're breathing oxygen, even though you don't have to, you're still going to get a little bit of oxygen delivery, just in a pressurized environment. But in most cases you have a cannula, you know, or a mask and you're breathing oxygen.

• 36:30Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Breathing up to 100% oxygen.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:32Dr. Mark Hyman?

  150% oxygen. Under pressure.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:35Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And what does that do to your body?

• 36:36Speaker 01

  The pressure drives more oxygen into tissue.

• 36:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So it's a way of oxygen yourself, but the. We're finding that it actually has a lot of benefits in activating stem cells and increasing stem cell production, killing all the zombie cells, which are the senescent aging cells that cause inflammation throughout your body. They increase telomere length. They have a lot of increasing kind of rejuvenation properties. Brian Johnson just published something.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, the hyperbarics.

• 37:02Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And he was talking about how all the things he'd done over the years, when he did a series of these hyperbaric sessions, it led to him improving a lot of his biomarkers that he had were stuck. And Israel published a study where they've used this technology for brain health and rejuvenation longevity, and they had pretty compelling data.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is pretty impressive. And I'm glad you said the word series, because I think a lot of people will hear hyperbaric and they'll do one session and expect the results. But, you know, in most of these studies, they're doing several weeks of hyperbaric, like you're doing 20, 30, 40 sessions. And some of them last like an hour, an hour and a half.

• 37:35Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Couple hours, yeah. You can get a PMF back if your back hurts and it'll be better right away. But this is like a commitment.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. If you're jet lagged or hungover and you do a hyperbaric session, you're gonna feel a little bit better. But if you're in it for the longevity effects.

• 37:48Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So these are kind of cool tools and they're, some of them are expensive, like a hyperbaric chamber, but some of them, you know, are not that, that price prohibitive. And they can be things you add to your daily life.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, you can walk outside barefoot in the sunshine and do breath work for, for free.

• 38:01Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's right.

• 38:02Speaker 01

  Which is, you know, like I mentioned, community. And I think that's, that's the thing is that you see like, whatever the, you know, 110 year old grandma in Sardinia, Italy, who's, you know, smoking the occasional cigarette and perhaps drinking more alcohol than would be considered the hormetic effect and yet still living a long and happy life because of the community piece.

• 38:23Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's right.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  And, and, you know, I think it was the Surgeon General in 2023, you know, identified loneliness as the equivalent of smoking like 15 cigarettes a day, you know? And so you're seeing increased blood pressure, increased cortisol.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  What else? Increased inflammation, you see even increased expression of genes related to inflammatory cytokines and a decreased regulation of genes responsible for antiviral activity. It's almost like nature wants to kill you off.

• 38:54Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, I mean, there's a interesting field called sociogenomics. I don't know if you've ever heard of it.

• 38:59Speaker 01

  No.

• 39:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

  But I actually came up with this term independently because I realized, you know, after working in Haiti and learning about the work of Paul Farmer, who used community health workers and basically neighbors, helping neighbors to help people treat AIDS and TB.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 39:17Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Some of the most challenging public health conditions in the world, which most of the public health community had given up on as they had to take their medications under a regular schedule for multi-drug resistant TB and for AIDS. And it was too hard. They didn't have clean water. They didn't have watches. They were just super poor and difficult. But he, he really used the power of community to help heal. And I realized that, you know, when I started looking to literature, that, that it can work for good or for bad. Like if you're in a dynamic with somebody and then you're in a conflict situation or fight.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 39:53Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You're going to express all these genes that are inflammatory. As your emotions get inflamed, your biology gets inflamed. But if you're in a loving, deep, heart-centered connection with somebody, the opposite happens. You activate all these anti-inflammatory genes and healing genes and repair genes, which is fascinating to me. And so you can use community as a tool. I know you just launched a new community platform, which is to help people connect around.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. And I think that's, that's useful if you are.

• 40:20Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's called the Go Life Network, right?

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, go. I mean, there's, there's a lot of community platforms. I mean, there's, I mean, yeah, I think a lot of the people in the industry now, you know, you mentioned Dave Asprey, I think he has one, Gary Brekka has one, Brian Johnson. Who we were just talking about, he has one. Do you have a community?

• 40:36Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:37Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's called the Hyman Hive.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's, that's a great, is it like H Y V?

• 40:41Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And no, it's H I V.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 40:43Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's a good idea.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Anyways, though, I, I think the importance, if you're in a community is, even if it's a digital community, is to try and connect with people in that digital community who might actually be in the same region as you, or be traveling to the same area or conference as you, because there, there's actually a book by Sherry Turkle called Reclaiming Conversation, where she gets into the idea that a digital interaction misses a prefix and it misses an actual, um, you know, I R L relationship, you know, an in real life relationship.

• 41:18Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  And I think one of the, you know, if, if you look at the underlying biological mechanisms behind that, you know, if, if like I were to shake your hand, we're triggering skin receptors, you know, your placinean corpuscles. So you're getting, uh, you're, you're getting a stimulation of the vagus nerve, which is going to lower blood pressure and lower heart rate and lower cortisol and all those things that we look for when we're trying to increase heart rate variability. We'd see like an oxytocin release, which, you know, is your, your trusting, loving, snuggling hormone, um, which a lot of animals who are monogamous and mate for life have oxytocin receptors and a lot of animals who, who do not, don't. But you can genetically modify

• 42:03Speaker 01

  like a mouse to express oxytocin receptors and it will become more socially active when you do that, you know, whereas like a

• 42:10Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Well, you just got a dog.

• 42:11Speaker 01

  A human or a prairie bull, like we already got them built in.

• 42:14Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I know, we got a dog. He must have a lot of those receptors because he's constantly

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Dogs, kittens, yeah, a lot. We have, we have baby goats. I think they have a few. You get the oxytocin release, um, and then of course that can result in a subsequent serotonin release. You've got another feel good neurotransmitter hanging around. You've got the, you know, you look at like the research by the HeartMath Institute on the electromagnetic signal produced by the brain or produced by the heart that can actually affect the energy of those around you. And we miss a lot of those if we're in a purely digital environment. And so, you know, even me, like, I tend to be an introvert. I tend to be a loner. I'm one of those guys who can be super happy by myself for long periods of time. And yet, when I look at all the research, you know, I think if I'm spending time doing, you know, light and water and electricity and air optimization

• 43:02Speaker 01

  and all these bio hacks that Getting a hug could be a bio hack. I need, I need to be going out of my way to also build community, you know, beyond just, you know, Dunbar's number is 150, right? The, the, the approximate network of people that were able to, to interact with and stay in touch with. But what Dunbar was getting at when he came up with that number was also the idea that the deeper those layers, the more satisfied and happy a person was, right? So you have like your five intimate family members or very close friends and 15 kind of sort of friends, then 50 people who you get around with on a regular basis and maybe a few dozen others in your community. Yeah. And once you fall out of those layers, you know, it's like this built in ancestral

• 43:46Speaker 01

  mechanism where you just freak out, right? It's like, it's like the body goes into this state of nervous system stress. I mean, if you don't have those relations. If you, if you aren't connected to people, you know, it's, it's the equivalent of banishment, which would mean, you know, in a time. That was a punishment. That would have been punishment or death, right? It would have been ostracism. You know, it's a, that literally comes from a Greek term for the pottery shard called the ostraka, that they used to actually write the name of the person who they wished to banish for 10 years from, you know, in, in the church and organized religion, you know, excommunicare, excommunication, putting you out of communion. Yeah. The exact opposite of companionship. Yeah. Pan is like breaking bread with someone, companionship, you know, excommunication

• 44:29Speaker 01

  is getting thrust out of that, banishment. Yeah. It's a, it's, you know, I think that's a, a French word, you know, banir, to send away, to expel, to push out. So if that happens to a human, we go into this sympathetic nervous system, back to the, you know, running from a lion mode, because we become hypervigilant. We no longer have anyone around us to protect us. And that would have served us very well in an ancestral environment in which we had no one around us. So we had to have our guard up in order to not get eaten by a bear, you know, alone out in the forest. Now, there's even a term called the paradox of loneliness. And the paradox of loneliness is similar to the paradox of obesity, for example.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Right? We have built in calorie conservation mechanisms that were have served us really well. Thousands of years ago, if we didn't have access to ample amounts of food and we came across, let's say a kill, I don't know, woolly mammoth or whatever. We would want to eat as much as possible to store away as much fat as possible for when the times of need arose again.

• 45:33Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  And now with 24/7 access to hyper palatable food and like a Ben and Jerry's like two blocks away. Those same calorie conservation mechanisms cause overweight or obesity, right? Which is paradoxical with loneliness, it's also paradoxical, right? Because when we're away from people or even perceive that we're away from people. Cause there is this idea of not just subjective loneliness, right? Being lonely, but also subjective loneliness. Seeing whatever friends and followers and fans and likes somebody else has, comparing that to yours. And suddenly feeling like you're not keeping up and you're subjectively lonely. Whether it's objective or subjective loneliness. Those same biological mechanisms that we were talking about, increased blood pressure, increased heart rate, increased cortisol.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Well, what's that make you like nervous, anxious, depressed, irritable? And here's the paradox part, being the type of person who's exactly the type of person that nobody wants to hang around with. So you almost create like this vicious cycle of loneliness. So, you know, that's why I think it's, it's so important to check yourself and, you know, ask, hey, have I been by myself all week? You know, am I in loner mode? Am I keeping in touch with old friends or making new friends? You know, am I taking my earbuds out and maybe, you know, foregoing a podcast and just going on a hike with somebody and having a chat? You know, these are things.

• 46:51Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Underrated, it's underrated.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  People need to think about, yeah, just as much as whatever, red light that or PMF or whatever.

• 46:57Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's one of the key things around longevity. I remember traveling lots of the blue zones when I was writing my book, Young Forever. And I, you know, just striking to me how there wasn't loneliness, how everybody, even if they're, you know, they didn't have kids. They'd be taken in by a niece or nephew when they got older or they'd be.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:14Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Somebody's wife died, they'd be all their kids would move in with them. There was just a whole. Network in the community where everybody was part of it and there was community celebrations, community connection and it was pretty remarkable.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:26Dr. Mark Hyman?

  I think there was, um, you know, Dan Buettner's talked a lot about this, but it's definitely underrated. Like you can do all these fancy things and take all the supplements and eat all the great food and exercise and do all these biohacking things, but if you don't have community.

• 47:39Speaker 01

  Huddled up and lonely inside a hyperbaric chamber sucking out of B propolis lollipop with your binaural beats and, and yeah, I mean, you're still by yourself. I mean, you know, back to Moscow, Idaho, my, my mom who doesn't exercise and eat as healthy as she knows her son would like her to.

• 47:57Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Welcome to the club.

• 47:58Speaker 01

  Is actually in pretty good health because she has a coffee shop in downtown Moscow. It's like the hub of the town and she's like the grandma of the community and all like hanging around all these college students and pouring beer and, you know, walking all over the coffee shop and visiting with people. And I am so glad that she has that outlet because I know after having seen a lot of these, you know, studies and data and the blue zone stuff on loneliness that, you know, even if she's not exercising and eating as healthy as I'd like, like she is, she's up to some very good activity when it comes to her longevity, her happiness, right? And that's a, like the, what's the article, uh, five regrets of the dying, you know, it's an article in the book by the palliative care practitioner where she talks about what people expressed on their

• 48:43Speaker 01

  deathbeds. And it was basically, I wish I'd chosen to show my true emotions more. I wish I'd chosen to be happier. Uh, I wish I'd work less. I wish I'd been my true authentic self instead of who I thought the world expected me to be. And the last one was, I wish I'd stayed in touch with my friends.

• 49:01Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah. And it wasn't, I wish I answered all my emails.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  Right. I wish, I wish I got a zero inbox every Thursday. Um, no, cause, cause I mean, everybody knows like your work will eat you alive if that's the highest order of priorities. You know, it probably took me till I was like 35 years old to figure that out that, you know, my order of priorities is God and my spiritual health. And then my wife, because if you and your spouse don't put your oxygen mask on first, you can't be there for the kids and then the kids and then my health, which isn't hard for me because it's an industry that I work in and then business comes last. You know, I used to think you just, you gotta make the money first and then once you've made enough money, you'll be able to take care of the kids and have enough time to, and go on adventures and have many vacations and.

• 49:51Speaker 01

  What made you kind of flip in terms of your priorities? Almost getting a divorce. Like, literally, I was such

• 50:00Speaker 01

  an un-present father and husband, traveling all over the world at the time, not just for speaking in conferences, but also racing, you know, in Ironman. And I was really not putting my family first. My wife, for the first five years of my son's existence, was basically raising my sons almost by herself, you know, because I'd pop in, pop out, you know, go out and give myself the excuse that I was just out, you know, slaying dragons and providing for the family. Yeah. And it took a pretty rocky patch with her for me to buckle down and start to put family first. And I mean, I literally, I'm kind of like an all or nothing guy, so I jumped into it pretty hardcore.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  And we started to build like a family constitution and a family mission statement, based on a family core set of values. We all went to a cabin in Utah for three days and developed a family logo, which then led to a family crest and family flags and a giant, you know, family logo sign and logos on our pickleball paddles and our hats and our shirts that we wear out. We started doing a morning and a family meeting where every morning I gather the whole family at 7:00 a.m. and we sit around the living room and we talk about our evening, we talk about the day, we read the Bible together, we pray, we have a big hug and just this super happy coming together in the morning and then the same thing. And you get your teenage boys to do this?

• 51:27Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. 7:00 p.m. like clockwork. We all gather in the kitchen, we sing a song together. I bring my sons through a book that we are typically going together with, you know, each month I bring them through a book, so we have our chapter discussion before dinner. And we have like a whole game closet full of hundreds of games and we play games for like an hour and a half. And so every single day, I've almost like guarded me from being a workaholic because I bookended 7:00 a.m. No matter what I'm doing, I have to be on the living room floor with the family. Somebody's going to wonder, you know, where I am or what's going on. 7:00 p.m. Same thing like clockwork. That's my ending because I have to be there with the family. Get to be there with the family because it's like this amazing party that we have. And we've been doing that for 10 years.

• 52:11Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's incredible.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  And so not only do my sons have a real identity of what it means to be a green field and what we stand for and what we hold dear and what each little portion of the family crest means, but they feel a real sense of belonging. You know, and I think there's a far less chance of creating like a, you know, rags to riches to rags mentality or silver spoon mentality in a young man or young woman who really identifies with a sense of pride in the family name and wanting to build generational health and generational wealth and continue to build upon what you've started as a parent. You know, basically legacy.

• 52:50Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's incredible, Ben. That is incredible. That's true biohacking.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:54Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That, that.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  And it's so meaningful. I mean, I miss, I miss out on work. Like I work less than I used to. I probably make money at a far slower pace than a lot of my friends, but you know, it's kind of like the, a little bit like the old dad adage of, you know, mom ain't happy and nobody happy. If my whole family's happy.

• 53:11Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Well, you've figured your priorities to understand what matters.

• 53:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:14Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And it takes a long time for people to figure that out if ever, you know, if ever. And, you know, all the things you probably do in your day, my guess is that's probably the thing that keeps you the happiest and the happiest.

• 53:28Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it's the best. I mean, it's, you know, not to get too esoteric or woo, but I mean, you know, if you think about the two most eternal things that we are surrounded with every day of our lives, it's either other souls or God. Everything else is going to pass away. You know, all of our books and homes and money and sex and cars and everything. There's this, this idea that comes from ancient philosophers like Pences or Augustine or, you know, more modern authors like C.S. Lewis of this hole in the soul, this eternal hole in the soul that will always feel empty unless you fill it with something eternal. Right? So all material wealth, our business, you know, even our, our health, all of that is material and temporary. But if you're able to fill that hole.

• 54:13Speaker 01

  With a relationship with a higher power and relationship with other people, then all the other stuff becomes even more fulfilling. It's almost like the icing on the cake.

• 54:22Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's true.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  And I think a lot of people just miss out on the part of starting with the eternal and then all the other stuff becomes fulfilling and instead chase money, you know, chase cars, chase houses, chase women, chase men, whatever, thinking that that's what's going to make them happy when it's, you know, it's family, it's community, it's God.

• 54:45Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It, for me, it was similar. I mean, I went through many years of just, you know, focusing on my career and work and, and I had to kind of rejigger things and realize what was important. And now, you know, I, I just went through this pretty serious health crisis, back surgery and almost died and it was pretty intense.

• 55:01Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 55:01Dr. Mark Hyman?

  An infection in my back and, you know, what was so meaningful and powerful was the amount of people that were there for me, uh, who were in the hospital with me, who came and visited me, who, there was like, I think a WhatsApp thread of like, it was sort of a hundred and plus people.

• 55:17Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 55:18Dr. Mark Hyman?

  There was, it was healing circles and people praying for me and it, you know, made me realize that, you know, I've invested a lot of time and energy in building connections and community and friendships that are deep and

• 55:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:31Dr. Mark Hyman?

  that are not related to who I am, but in terms of being in the world, but just more who I am as a human being.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:38Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And in terms of, you know, my soul friends, I call them.

• 55:41Speaker 01

  It's a powerful

• 55:42Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  memento mori-esque exercise, this idea of asking yourself, and actually there's, there's an author named John Ortberg, and I think he puts it like this, he's got, he has a book that says, his book is called, I'd Like You More If You Were More Like Me. He has a lot of books, but this is a great book. And he has a part of that book where, where he lists kind of like the five regrets of the dying, all of the questions you might be asking yourself when you're at death's door towards the end of your life and the last question that he lists there is, who will cry at my funeral?

• 56:15Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  Who will cry at my funeral?

• 56:17Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  And even in, even in digital community, like I know, like I probably have like thousands of people who follow me on Instagram or Facebook or whatever, who really are not Getting give a crap about my funeral and move on to the next expert or author podcast or whatever if I were to pass away. But my local network of community and friends and family members and people who I've built, you know, again, I R L flesh and blood relationships with those people will.

• 56:47Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  And, you know, back to the loneliness piece, it is kind of sad that we do live in a time when it's so easy to build those super shaky digital relationships that unless they blossom into something else are kind of flat at the end of the day.

• 57:02Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's amazing. And, and you know, when you, when you have, you know, that kind of structure that you put in your day around connection and family and just even having the thought of creating, you know, family values and what your mission is and how you take care of each other, how you relate to each other, what's important and what you focus on. It's, it's something I think, you know, just so few people ever think of doing.

• 57:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:22Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And, and you're, my guess is your kids are pretty well adjusted. They're probably not addicts. They're doing okay in school. They're, you know, probably happy.

• 57:32Speaker 01

  We give them a lot of drugs and hang them from cages and. Um, kidding. I, I think if a child is given time and love and presence, that's one thing. And I think most parents and people are aware of that. But I think it's time and love and presence and this deep sense of belonging, like knowing that they're part of a movement or part of something greater. I'm not saying like turn your family into a cult or something like that, but this idea of like having in the same way that you would brand a business and in an ideal scenario and a successful business, all your employees know what the business's values and mission statement and core purposes. You essentially brand your family the same way as you would brand a business all the way down to the freaking logo and the sign on the wall. And that's what we did for our family and it's, it's incredible.

• 58:17Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Well, you're sort of like touching on this concept of like rules to live by, like what are the simple principles and rules to live by?

• 58:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 58:23Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And most people probably don't know this piece about you, but I think that's a, it's such a gift that you shared it because it's something that I think most people probably hopefully take away from this and understand that, that. It makes them reflect on where they have done it or haven't done it in their own life. And hopefully it'll inspire people to actually lean into this.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:42Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And, and I, I wonder, you know, given all the things, you know, you, you talked everything from your soul to, you know, PMF.

• 58:49Speaker 01

  Sperm.

• 58:53Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Like after years and years of experimenting and optimizing and at every level, you're obviously your body, your mind, your spirit, soul. I'm wondering like what you kind of are down to and distilled down to in terms of like key practices that you want to keep. Like what are the, let's say, if you only keep three practices, what would they be? Or five, whatever, whatever you think is, that sort of stood the test of time and, and you want to carry forward going.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  Key principles, move well. And as we, as we've established, not too much at too high an intensity. But I think movement is underrated and it's very easy to not move. I'm shocked at the number of people who get a movement meter or wearable and think they're taking 10,000 steps a day and they're taking 3,000.

• 59:37Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  So move more, eat well, which I think most people are aware of. And you have many books about this and you don't have to follow a special diet, but back to the blue zones, you know, eat in a mindful state, eat a wide variety of plants and herbs and spices, you know, throw a little bit of hormesis in there occasionally from plants and herbs and spices and maybe even alcohol. Avoid ultra-processed foods and eat well. I would say thermal stress or discomfort is underrated. We live in a temperature controlled climate. So subjecting yourself to like the ancestral rigors of heat and cold on a regular basis. That's why I think we've, we've, we see a growing body of research on things like a sauna practice.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  And I think we'll see more and more coming out on cryotherapy and cold immersion because very similar to exercise. You know, we need to be throwing stress orders at our body. You know, even down to the hypoxia that we were talking about for mitophagy, just for cell autophagy in general and cellular resilience. You need to do uncomfortable things. Within limit, you know, as we were talking about earlier. So it's all move well, eat well.

• 1:00:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Stress our bodies.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Thermal stress. Yeah. Or just discomfort in general. And if I could name a couple of others, I would say, take care of your personal environment. We touched on air, light, water and electricity. So pay attention to quality of your air and the cleanliness of your air, your water filtration system. And what kind of water bottles you're drinking out of when you travel. Your lighting environment, especially how much LED high flicker, high EMF light you might be exposed to on a regular basis. And sunlight on the good side of things. And then the electrical environment that you live in, you know, even my house, like there is no wifi. You pull up to the bar at the kitchen and you peek under the bar and there's six little ethernet ports there

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  where anybody can plug in if they want to, but they're not going to get a wifi signal. I didn't want a house where it was inconvenient and I'd have a bunch of upset visitors who could never get on the internet. So I literally have cat eight metal shielded ethernet throughout the entire house. You can just plug in. You don't have to go to those extremes, but little things like unplug your wifi router where you're sleeping at night, for example. Personal environment, discomfort, move well, eat well. And I would say the last thing is something that we just got done touching on. It would be the fifth thing I'd name, and that would be your, your spiritual health, which I think includes your spiritual practice and your relationships slash community. And like those would probably be the five that I would distill it down to.

• 1:02:10Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, pretty, pretty sage advice, pretty solid. And I think, you know, the one part I think people might not completely understand, and it's worth diving more into your work about this, you know, is, is this piece around how do you control your environment to support your health, whether it's, you know?

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  How do you build your own blue zone?

• 1:02:27Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, a lot of people feel pretty bad most of the time. And, and it's often the result of things that we're not aware of, like the quality of our air, the quality of our water, the

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, exercising and they're eating healthy and they still feel like crap by 2pm.

• 1:02:41Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And, and so you, what I'm hearing you say is that some of these technologies that have helped us in many ways, live better, more fun or interesting lives. Also have a dark side and and that there's ways to mitigate that dark side.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:54Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And rejuvenate your body in many different ways. So lastly, I just kind of want to sort of hear what your thoughts are about the latest longevity trends. What what are the things that are popping for you that you think are worth leaning into? And what are the things that maybe are like misconceptions or things that are misunderstood?

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  Maybe not. We talked about some of the beauty trends and so.

• 1:03:18Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Sam's sperm.

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, Sam's sperm. And yeah, we didn't touch on this, but but another thing the same clinic does is they do botox injections at your your sexual organs, which apparently relaxes the muscle tissue and allows for for better vascularity.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  To my wife was very concerned when I told her I was going to Austin to get a paralytic toxin injected into my my my man piece. But, you know, they just had this health optimization event down here and it was a lot of, you know, the things that you would expect to see lots of different kinds of, you know, the 18 flavors and variants of beef tallow and beef jerky and energy bars. And I think a lot of the the cool technologies like we discussed, you tend to see those more like A4M in Vegas or something like that, that that are kind of like the cool things coming down the pipeline. For me personally, that I have been getting super into, and I briefly mentioned this to you as I was looking at your

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  your biohacking setup here, the idea of combining different modalities to relax and kind of down regulate the nervous system, namely haptic sensations, light and sound in some kind of combinatorial environment. So what I mean by that is when I travel, I have one of these Apollo wristbands or ankle bands that will vibrate and then a neuro visor, which is a headset that you wear that produces light and sound. And there's something about light plus sound plus vibration that will knock me out on an airplane or after a busy day at a conference when I have too many central nervous system stimulants in me.

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  Um, and at home, I have this vibrating chair called the Shiftwave, which is kinda cool. It just vibrates your whole body. You can wear a fingertip sensor and it'll kinda do it in combination with your actual heart rate variability.

• 1:05:15Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  As you breathe in and breathe out, but then right above the Shiftwave chair, I've got this lamp called the Roxiva. And that also does light sound therapy.

• 1:05:24Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Hmm.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  So I've got a travel setup, the Neurovisor plus the Apollo, and at home, kinda like the big guns, the, the Shiftwave, plus the Roxiva, and-

• 1:05:33Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And you don't, so you don't wear an eye mask when you do the Shiftwave?

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  The Shiftwave, you can wear an eye mask if you're just doing the Shiftwave, but the way I do it is I've got eyes open. And there's like an AV cable that comes out of the Roxiva because I've got about 20 different sessions that are built for haptic sensations.

• 1:05:48Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And haptic is like vibration?

• 1:05:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, like vibration. The Roxiva comes with this teeny tiny little like bass speaker that you put under a table or to vibrate your body. So I thought, well, why not hook it up to the friggin' Shiftwave? So I plugged the AV cable into the input of the Shiftwave. So now when the lights come on, they're just blasting it off to outer space, which is incredible. If you just need to like, check out at 3pm and turn your brain off. You're getting blasted with light. You have the headphones in, so the sound is doing the thing in conjunction to the light, and then that's feeding into full body vibration.

• 1:06:18Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  And it's pretty cool to essentially just knock stress flat out of your body. Like, I feel incredible when I do that or the-

• 1:06:26Dr. Mark Hyman?

  For 10 minutes?

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  The Apollo. Oh, I'll, I'll run it. My, my scheduling team knows that you don't schedule anything for Ben between about 2 and 3:30pm. Because I finish lunch and I go into my little lounge and I'll spend just anywhere from 30 to 60 minutes. You know, it's kinda part of my job, if you wanna call it that, to try out all these new devices. So the other day I was trying out the new Mute, Muse has some new Athena headband that detects blood flow and brainwaves. Or I'll be messing around with the Shiftwave, or what happens if I plug this into that, or if I take my Neurovisor into the hyperbaric chamber. So that's my relaxation experimentation time.

• 1:07:04Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:05Speaker 01

  And, uh, I'm not in there for an hour and a half, but usually, you know, I need a little, little bit of padding time on the other end to come out and, you know, and get back into the emails and stuff.

• 1:07:14Dr. Mark Hyman?

  What I've found is that stress is, is incredibly exhausting thing in your body. And if you have ways of discharging the stress- Tony Robbins talked about changing your state, whether it's just jumping up and down or breathing or whatever. And this is a state-

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  A prey animal would relax after being chased by a predator. By shaking.

• 1:07:32Dr. Mark Hyman?

  By shaking, right. And so there's, there's these devices or tools you can use to help reset your nervous system. You can do it with breath work, you can do meditation, you can do it, you know, stretching. There's a lot of ways to do it, yoga. But this, this technologies are pretty cool because they-

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  It is cool.

• 1:07:46Dr. Mark Hyman?

  They kind of, we all are living in this heightened state of cortisol.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:49Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And so how do you kind of drop out of that? And so these technologies are-

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  And it's a routine thing, too. Like, I'm typically up between 4:30 and 5:00 a.m. because I like to have that time when the world doesn't expect me to be up and I don't have to be guilty about having my phone off so I can do my morning routine and get ready for the day and have my time with God and have my coffee and just have my morning to myself. Because I also have a family and we have these wonderful glorious family dinner parties. I'm usually not in bed till 10, right? So I'm getting maybe six hours of sleep a night. But I find that if I can program in 30 to 60 minutes of relaxation in the afternoon, it's almost like time hacking. Because if you add it up, you know, that's still only like seven hours. I'm supposed to be getting, you know, depending on the research you look at, seven to nine hours. But I can be super present for my family

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  at dinner as long as I have that afternoon checkout time. So I'm, I'd much rather get up super early and nap than sleep in, not have my morning and just bang out the rest of the day. So I would say, that's what I'm excited about, just the use of haptic sensation, light and sound. And then, what'd you ask me? What is overrated?

• 1:08:52Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah. What, what, what are the things that you like, are like, ah, that's kind of like misconceptions?

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  I would hate to cause people to think that they shouldn't prioritize something like, you know, like the whole sicko calorie in, calorie out equation, because I do think that trumps a lot. But I think there's a lot of people, maybe this is similar to, to my reply to you about exercise, who are overdoing the whole intermittent fasting keto thing.

• 1:09:17Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  You know, I talked to a lot of, for example, especially like pre-menopausal women who are doing like 16 hour fasts and they're seeing, you know, these intense hormonal imbalances and down regulation of fertility and- You know, they're essentially treating themselves as men when women, especially premenopausal women, do better on like a 10 to 12 hour intermittent fast and you know, strength training and adequate protein and all the, you know, so, you know, I see a lot of cardio bunnies, you know, not to stereotype, who are doing excess intermittent fastings. That's one, one thing that I think is overrated. And then, look, I am all about controlling glycemic variability. You know, a lot of times I wear a blood glucose monitor. I am aware

• 1:10:03Speaker 01

  and cognizant of my carbohydrates, starches and sugar intake. But I think a lot of people now, especially with the surge in CGMs, they're just scared of carbs, scared of sugar and often equate what would be considered traditionally a therapeutic ketogenic diet, right? Like 30 to 40 grams of carbs or whatever a day that you'd use to, you know, in a situation of TBI, concussion, Alzheimer's, et cetera. And they're saying, oh, well, this is like my new cognitive enhancing superpower. And you tend to see, you know, back to what I was saying earlier for me, back when I did that, when exercising a lot, you know, impact on the thyroid, impact on testosterone, impact on joint health. The way that I do things now, after experimenting with a lot of different approaches, is I kind of think

• 1:10:47Speaker 01

  you can have your cake and eat it too. I don't eat a lot of carbs and sugars most of the day, right? I save my carbs until the evening, which is typically the, the meal that tends to be the most social, the most difficult sometimes to control what you're eating because you're out at restaurants, you're with friends, you're at a party, whatever. So I eat like low carb, relatively keto, most of the day. And then I'll have like 250 to 350 grams of carbs at night, which is great because you sock away a little bit of liver glycogen and muscle glycogen for a great workout the next morning.

• 1:11:21Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So would you, what would that be?

• 1:11:22Speaker 01

  A little bit of serotonin and melatonin response.

• 1:11:24Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's not going to be like white flour. You're not eating?

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  No, sweet potato, purple potato, yam, beet, parsnip, dark chocolate, yogurt. So, you know, good carbohydrate sources.

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  Kara fries, sweet potato fries, so.

• 1:11:40Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Not a lot of grains or beans.

• 1:11:42Speaker 01

  Not a lot of grains or beans. Besides, my wife does really, really good fermented sourdough bread. She makes those crunchy cannonballs, which are pretty good with a little bit of honey and sea salt on them. I'm basically in a pretty glycemically stable state the entire day. Quick feeding at night that because I'm usually doing something active before dinner, playing tennis or pickleball with the family, doing a sauna cold plunge, going on a quick walk or even using bitters, for example, before the meal. I'm inducing almost like a temporary state of heightened insulin sensitivity prior to the evening carbohydrate feeding. So I'm not getting a huge blood sugar spike that lasts till midnight and then a hypoglycemic drop that wakes me up at 1 a.m. or whatever.

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  So I'm active around dinnertime. I have some bitters with dinner, which kind of act as glucose disposal agents. And then I sleep like a baby and then get up the next morning and rinse, wash and repeat. And I see a lot of people who just like go for way too long restricting carbohydrates. Whereas I think more of like a carb refeeding approach works way better. And that's the way I've eaten for like, uh, probably more than a decade now.

• 1:12:52Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And, and, and you're not, you're talking about carbs like sweet potatoes and.

• 1:12:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:12:56Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That are much, uh, much lower glycemic.

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah. I avoid, yeah, I, I avoid non nutritionally dense carbohydrates. I generally avoid.

• 1:13:05Dr. Mark Hyman?

  It's like.

• 1:13:05Speaker 01

  Period.

• 1:13:06Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Ice cream.

• 1:13:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it depends on the ice cream.

• 1:13:10Speaker 01

  And, you know, we have goats. Uh, my sons make some pretty good goat milk ice cream. But yeah, it, it depends. Um, but yeah, most ultra processed starches and sugars you should avoid in general. But especially even like the health world, I just see people being carb phobic.

• 1:13:25Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Well, you see fat phobic, now it's carb phobic.

• 1:13:27Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:13:28Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And then.

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Hopefully it doesn't become protein phobic soon.

• 1:13:31Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  That'd be the worst.

• 1:13:33Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Protein is something we've talked about on the podcast and, and other guests, uh, like Gabrielle Lyon, but, you know, we seem to be in a protein craze right now. And in all the natural, all the.

• 1:13:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:45Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Meat bars and protein bars and protein. I actually yesterday tried a new bar that was, you know, made with, you know, whey protein and beef collagen and.

• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:55Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Beef tallow and it was actually pretty good.

• 1:13:58Speaker 01

  There's a lot of them. They're super tasty. Yeah.

• 1:14:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

  And I was like, wow, this is like really lots of good fat, lots of. High quality protein. What's your take? Are we, are we kind of going overboard on the too much protein side? Are we?

• 1:14:10Speaker 01

  I mean, depending on the, on the studies that you look at, I mean, there's some that go for like three grams per pound and some, you know, studies on bodybuilders on protein intake. I'm, I'm kind of a fan of the one-ish gram per pound sweet spot.

• 1:14:23Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Which is twice as much or more than, than the RDA, which is the government sort of minimum amount.

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  Exactly. And I think if you're, if you're not physically active, you might be able to get away with a little bit less than that. I would rather people be prioritizing protein than running from it, but I think with protein, it's the quality that matters. You know, because if you, you know, let's say you're plant-based and you're, you know, rotating legumes and grains and, um, you know, eating a variety of, I don't like quinoa and peas and maybe some seeds and nuts, et cetera. The issue on that side is unless you're taking the time to properly prepare, you know, soak, sprout, ferment, slow prepare those foods, is gonna do a number on your gut and you're not gonna unlock a lot of amino acids from those protein sources anyways.

• 1:15:13Speaker 01

  So you're probably gonna wind up a little bit protein deficient unless you really go out of your way to do a plant-based diet correctly. And then on the omnivorous or carnivorous side, you see people who a lot of times have more of the I I F Y M approach and they're just like, hey, if I'm getting enough protein, I don't care if it's from a, you know, McDonald's, Big Mac with a, maybe the bun removed or something like that, or a, or a Costco steak or a Rosar steak or, you know, or, you know, hopefully, you know, grass-fed, grass-finished, good pasture sources. So I think the cleanliness of the animal from which you're getting the protein is really important. Not necessarily because the protein is gonna be that different, but because of all the other things that you're getting along with it.

• 1:15:56Speaker 01

  You know, whatever, what might be concentrated in the fats or something like that.

• 1:16:00Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Although there may be, but there may be good things. I mean, you know, there's Stephen Van Velez, there's some interesting studies looking at bison and bison just that are purely fed on regenerative methods using kind of multiple wild plants that they eat versus a bison that's, that's, you know, mostly grass-fed, but then is, you know, feedlot fed at the end with corn and grains. And they did very detailed metabolomic studies where they looked at not just, you know, things that were bad because, you know, they probably weren't giving these bison hormones and antibiotics and things like that, but they were still eating like a grain diet that the

• 1:16:37Dr. Mark Hyman?

  metabolites in the, in the meat of the fully regenerative bison were really quite different and had all sorts of phytochemicals that weren't in the other meat, that all sorts of, you know, fatty acids that weren't in there and other benefits that, that you wouldn't expect.

• 1:16:52Speaker 01

  I'm not convinced the amino acid composition would be different. You know, if we're talking about purely the proteins, but yeah, I think, you know, as much as you can go of your way to ensure that the quality of the protein source is superior.

• 1:17:05Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:06Speaker 01

  You know, the better.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  If, if you look at some of the people who are, you know, waving the red flag on protein, typically it's around potential for something like gluconeogenesis, you know, where you get excess protein causing some type of an insulin genetic reaction or a glucose spike.

• 1:17:23Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, I met a guy at a carnival recently and he's like, his insulin levels were pretty high. And I'm like, that's interesting because he's.

• 1:17:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, exactly. What you can do, you also tend to see folks in the longevity camp who raise concerns about excess stimulation of mTOR, which theoretically resulted in impaired longevity from excessive methionine intake, right? The amino acid that you find in a lot of meat, especially if you're not eating a nose to tail source and balancing out methionine with glycine. So I think the variety of your protein intake matters, you know, getting sources that are rich in glycine and collagen and gelatin and not just eating meat.

• 1:18:06Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Right.

• 1:18:07Speaker 01

  Is important. I think, yeah, I think, I don't like the term lean protein for the most part, you know, I think that a fatty cut of salmon and the egg with the yolk and, you know, getting as long as the animal's been fed well, a little bit of the, you know, the CLAs and the saturated fats from, you know, well-fed pork or cow. I think that's a good idea. But yeah, I, I think that you could make a case that if you get too much methionine and too high a protein intake to the point of like acidity or excess mTOR activation or gluconeogenesis or something like that, like it could be bad, but I don't think many people are reaching that high level of protein intake.

• 1:18:46Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think, you know, it is the only macronutrient we need. In gram amounts.

• 1:18:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:53Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You know, such fatty acids, we need milligram amounts carbohydrates. We don't need them, although they they help us in different ways, but there's no essential carbohydrate.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:03Dr. Mark Hyman?

  So it's interesting. It's an interesting moment. Like we've got this low fat, low carb, high protein. Now, I think the world just kind of keeps spinning around the nutrition confusion.

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:11Dr. Mark Hyman?

  People just like focus on.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Very dogmatic. You know, nutrition is very dogmatic and it's also an easy industry to make money in because people want a perfect solution.

• 1:19:20Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's right.

• 1:19:21Speaker 01

  Right? So if you can come up with a perfect bar or the perfect book or the perfect diet or whatever, like you're going to rake in some cash for a little bit and then people will move on to the next big thing. Once they realize that one isn't working for them.

• 1:19:31Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's right. I mean, it's always say, don't let your ideology run over your biology.

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:35Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Like pay attention to how you feel and what's going on in your body.

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  Don't let your ideology run over your biology.

• 1:19:41Dr. Mark Hyman?

  You know, because they got to listen to your body. It's basically the bottom line. It's generally the smartest doctor in the room. And Ben, you know, your work's been so great. You've you've really helped bring some of these ideas into health consciousness. And I think I really encourage people to check out more of your work and you've got a new book coming out that's sort of an update of your older book, right? The Boundless is just coming out April. So what, where can people find you online?

• 1:20:07Speaker 01

  My, my hub is BenGreenfieldLife.com.

• 1:20:12Dr. Mark Hyman?

  Ben Greenfield Life and you can connect to everything you're doing there.

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  Pretty much. Yeah.

• 1:20:15Dr. Mark Hyman?

  That's great. And thank you so much for being such a pioneer and thinking about tools and practices and things from a scientific perspective and kind of separating the wheat from chaff and helping us sort of navigate what are often very strange and controversial topics with, with, you know, humor, intelligence and, and grace. Thank you, Ben, for being on the podcast.

• 1:20:36Speaker 01

  Thanks, man.

• 1:20:37Dr. Mark Hyman?

  If you, when it comes to supplements, you only want the best for your body, the kind with the highest quality, cleanest and most potent ingredients you can get. That's exactly what you'll find at my supplement store, where I've hand selected each and every product to meet the most rigorous standards for safety, purity and effectiveness. These are the only supplements I recommend to my patients and they're also what I use myself. Whether you want to optimize longevity or reduce your disease risk, or you're looking to improve your sleep, blood sugar, metabolism, gut health, you name it, drhyman.com has the world's best selection of top-quality, premium supplements, all backed by science and expertly vetted by me, Dr. Mark Hyman. So check out drhyman.com because when it comes to your health, nothing less than the very best will do. That's drhyman.com, D-R-H-Y-M-A-N dot com.

• 1:21:21Dr. Mark Hyman?

  If you love this podcast, please share it with someone else you think would also enjoy it. You can find me on all social media channels at Dr. Mark Hyman. Please reach out. I'd love to hear your comments and questions. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to the Dr. Hyman Show wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to check out my YouTube channel at Dr. Mark Hyman for video versions of this podcast and more. Thank you so much again for tuning in. We'll see you next time on the Dr. Hyman Show. This podcast is separate from my clinical practice at the Ultra Wellness Center, my work at Cleveland Clinic, and Function Health, where I am Chief Medical Officer. This podcast represents my opinions and my guests' opinions. Neither myself nor the podcast endorses the views or statements of my guests. This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical

• 1:22:04Dr. Mark Hyman?

  professional. This podcast is provided with the understanding that it does not constitute medical or other professional advice or services. If you're looking for help in your journey, please seek out a qualified medical practitioner. And if you're looking for a functional medicine practitioner, visit my clinic, the Ultra Wellness Center at ultrawellnesscenter.com, and request to become a patient. It's important to have someone in your corner who is a trained, licensed healthcare practitioner and can help you make changes, especially when it comes to your health. This podcast is free as part of my mission to bring practical ways of improving health to the public. So I'd like to express gratitude to sponsors that made today's