Ep. 704: MeatEater Radio Live! Happy Dogs, Hound Dogs, and Hot Dogs

Hosts Randall Williams, Tony Peterson, and Lake Pickle dig deep into dogs with trainer Jordan Horak of Cato Outdoors, play a thrilling round of MeatEater Price is Right with help from their friends as Scheels, discuss 1974's canine classic, Where the Red Fern Grows, talk ticks with Dr. Mani Lejuene of Cornell University, and throwback to some cherished dog memories. Watch the live stream on the MeatEater Podcast Network YouTube channel. https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Subscribe to The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Steven Rinella?

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• 0:48Steven Rinella?

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• 1:28Steven Rinella?

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• 2:10Speaker 00

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• 2:37Speaker 02

  Smell us now, lady. Welcome to Meat Eater Trivia. Meat Eater Podcast.

• 2:59Speaker 00

  Welcome to Meat Eater Radio Live. It's 11 a.m. Mountain Time. That's 8 p.m. for our friends in Luukko, Finland on Thursday, May 15th, and we are live from Meat Eater HQ in Bozeman, Montana. I'm your host Randall Williams and I'm joined today by Tony Peterson and Lake Pickle. On today's show, we're talking dogs, the beloved species, AKA man's best friend, as well as the food variety. Of course, I'm referring to hot dogs. Jeez, jeez. This is a good script.

• 3:33Speaker 00

  First, we'll interview dog trainer extraordinaire Jordan Horak, and then we'll play a little game we re-coined, The Price is Right. We re-coined that? I don't think we re-coined anything. I should have read this first. I think we just stole that outright. Followed by a highly requested return of the Meat Eater Movie Club, where we'll be discussing the children's classic Where the Red Fern Grows. And after that, we'll talk with Professor Mani Lejeune about ticks and tick prevention in our dogs. And finally, we will do a Throwback Thursday with some memories with some of our four-legged best friends.

• 4:11Speaker 03

  But first, Tony, Lake, great to have you fellows in the studio. What brings you to town this week?

• 4:17Speaker 04

  Let me go first?

• 4:18Speaker 03

  Go first, go ahead.

• 4:18Speaker 04

  All right. Well, Dog Week, and I've been, I have the Houndations podcast on Cal's Feed, which is all about dogs. Uh, we've been writing dog articles and dropping them on the site. I have a new rooster film, if you like watching public land roosters get crunched by an adorable black lab.

• 4:36Speaker 03

  Beautiful.

• 4:37Speaker 04

  And me. You can check that out at the MeatEater site. But yeah, we are just celebrating dogs. We finally did an end around. I actually did the end around on Steve Rinella, who is a cat guy, big cat guy, uh, and went right to the seat.

• 4:50Speaker 03

  Everybody's saying that.

• 4:51Speaker 04

  Right, well, because it's true. Yes. This is not a rumor I started. Uh, this is just known around the office. But I did an end around, end around on Steve, went to our CEO and I said, hey, man, everybody here loves dogs, but Steve, can we finally do something for the company instead of just catering to him? And he said, fine. And so now we have Dog Week and we are going to be cranking out dog content from here on out. It's a new category at MeatEater.

• 5:14Speaker 03

  Well done, well done. And you know who else loves dogs? The people. The people love dogs.

• 5:20Speaker 04

  Almost everyone, yes.

• 5:22Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 5:22Speaker 04

  Hot dogs and the free kind.

• 5:24Speaker 03

  Indeed, both of them. Yeah, so, uh, my reason for being up here is twofold. The first one is I'm working on a new podcast that'll go on the Bear Grease Feed, that I'm super excited about, gonna be called Backwoods University. And also, when we scheduled the time to come up here, I knew that May, it was still turkey season in Montana. I don't know how you feel about turkey hunting, Randall, but I, I love it a whole lot. So I hit up Max Barta, who's I've been buddies with for a while. I was like, hey, man, since I'm gonna be up there. And so we snuck out Monday and managed to get a turkey. So it's been a great week.

• 5:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, uh, I asked Max Barta to take me turkey hunting.

• 6:04Speaker 00

  And now he's taken two out of town visitors turkey hunting successfully the past seven days. And I'm left wondering what uh, what Max really thinks of me, if there's anything there.

• 6:16Speaker 05

  Max, if you're watching the show, go ahead and call in. We'll go ahead and talk to you live here.

• 6:19Speaker 04

  Randall, I would just like to say that Max invited me to turkey hunt this week as well.

• 6:23Speaker 00

  Are you serious?

• 6:24Speaker 03

  He did.

• 6:24Speaker 04

  A hundred percent serious.

• 6:25Speaker 00

  I will say, he did, he did invite me to turkey hunt Monday afternoon, I believe, after you killed your bird. He said, do you still want to go turkey hunting? How about tomorrow? And I said, sure. And he said, the weather looks bad. We'll have to make a call on it. And then two hours later, he texted me and said, the weather is too bad. We shouldn't go. So Max did make an effort, right? Although at that point, the forecast, it was, I don't know how wholehearted it was.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  Right. I got to go, in his defense, seeing as like he, he was huge part in me getting said turkey. When we were driving back and the weather was still pretty, he was like, I wonder if Randall will want to go tomorrow. I was like, ask him, because.

• 7:04Speaker 05

  Well, breaking news, if you want to direct your attention to the screen.

• 7:06Speaker 00

  I know. Yeah. I would like to, Max kind of gets a bad rap.

• 7:11Speaker 05

  For the audio listeners, Max, Max chimed in in the live chat. He says, hey Randall, I was going to take you Tuesday, but it rained.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  Yep, yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 05

  All cats.

• 7:18Speaker 00

  And I'm just, I'm just having fun with you, Max. He did, I, I have every confidence that he will take me turkey hunting. And we will get a bird. 15 days left of the season. Not that anyone's counting. So. Yeah, well, it's wonderful to have you guys here. Both your first times on Radio Live.

• 7:36Speaker 04

  I actually was a guest on Radio Live once.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 7:39Speaker 04

  Call in.

• 7:40Speaker 00

  That doesn't count.

• 7:41Speaker 04

  So.

• 7:41Speaker 00

  Until you sit in this chair.

• 7:44Speaker 00

  You don't know what it feels like. Well, gentlemen, I think it's time we move on to our first interview of the day. Joining us is professional dog trainer and the owner of Cato Outdoors, Mr. Jordan Horak. Jordan, thanks for joining us.

• 8:01Speaker 06

  Hey guys, I thought this was turning into a turkey episode here for a second.

• 8:06Speaker 00

  Not on my watch. Not on my watch.

• 8:08Speaker 06

  It sounded like it for like three minutes.

• 8:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Everybody's talked about turkeys, but we're here for dogs.

• 8:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, good, good.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  Uh, first off, what is the most important thing you can do with a puppy during the first week after you bring it home?

• 8:25Speaker 06

  Yeah, all right. So, so here's, here's the deal. Like, dogs are weird because, uh, everybody wants to turn them into like a computer or something that's really absolute. And say like, okay, there's one right way to, to train a dog or to treat that dog in the first week. And in my experience, like every, just like kids, like every dog is very different. So everyone's gonna need a little bit of a different approach, maybe. And there's gonna be people that have different ideas and that's all great, because this is really a subjective thing, training dogs. But in my opinion, when I bring a dog home, my natural urge is to start training it right away. Like, I want it to be a great dog. So I want to teach it to sit and throw a bunch of retrieves and like start training it, all these things. And in my experience, that's like the worst thing you can do.

• 9:10Speaker 06

  Because that dog is going through like a really big fear stage when you bring it to your house. Like it's, you're a new person and, you know, they can't speak English. So nobody explained to that dog like, hey, uh, you're going to this new person's house and they really love you. And like, they don't know any of those things. So you have to show them, I think, in that first week that like, hey, I'm somebody you want to hang out with. Like, we're gonna have good times, but requirements are really, really low right now. So I'm gonna do a lot of giving that puppy treats out of my hand. I'm gonna get down on the floor with it, play with it, maybe get to, get it to play a little bit of tug with me. Uh, but I'm really just looking at building that relationship for the first week. And really like the first few months, that's gonna be the main focus.

• 9:55Speaker 06

  There's gonna be a few things, of course, we're gonna have to teach it right away. Like, one of those would be, don't pee on the floor, go in the crate, be quiet in the crate. Um, don't bite me. Like, you can't, you know, you can't chew on my hands like puppies like to do. Um, so of course, we're gonna work on those things, but my primary thing for the first even few weeks is, hey, let's, let's just get to be buddies and like get ready for the long road. Cause this is, this is a marathon. We got plenty of time to teach skills later on.

• 10:23Speaker 04

  So Jordan, I know, let's, let's move past the first week here right now and just kind of building that trust and making that, that puppy comfortable. I know you're a big confidence guy, right? Like you like to challenge dogs and help them build confidence. So when you talk about, you know, dogs being individuals, which they are, you kind of got to cater a lot of your training style to that individual dog, the personality, drive, all that stuff. But there is sort of a ubiquitous, uh, cross the board need for confidence in dogs. And I know that you take puppies, you know, from eight weeks on, and that's, that's like top of mind for you. Can you kind of give us like a 30,000 foot view on how you look at puppies and go, I want to, I want to start creating a confident dog?

• 11:05Speaker 06

  Yeah. So a lot of people think that building a confident dog means like throwing it into all these weird situations. So they bring this new puppy home and they take it to the pet store and they take it to their friends and they take it to the dog park and all these places. And I don't think that that makes a confident puppy because that's just a lot of confusion and a lot of uncontrolled environment. Bad things can happen. So I look at building confidence at actually like creating a predictable environment with a, with a predictable outcome. So I'm not traveling them or taking them all over the place. I'm just trying to throw things at them at home. So one thing I did with a, a recent litter, and if your listeners want to go check it out, I think it's pretty cool. And it's like the only

• 11:47Speaker 06

  thing I've ever done that's gone viral on social media. So go, go watch it. But I, I created a, created an obstacle course for a recent litter of sprayer puppies that I did. And we started out, uh, just like with one obstacle within this course. They just had to go around one wall. And we put the puppy, or we put the food down at the end, and then we put the puppies down behind this wall. And all they had to do was go around it. And they were like, they were panicking, they were crying, they're trying to cry, climb out the edge. Like they had no idea what to do. And like their, their confidence was kind of shattered. A lot of people, the tendency would be like, oh, look at the poor things like they need help. And you know, they would go and intervene and really like that intervention is not going to help them build confidence.

• 12:31Speaker 06

  So we, I say we, it was my, my kids and I were like doing the science experiment, basically behavior science. We, we just stood there and watched them and pretty soon one of them like stuck its head around the wall like, oh, look, I can kind of go this way. And all of a sudden they all, they all ran around the corner and they're eating food. The next time we did that, we dropped them in there, didn't say anything, put the food down and all nine of the puppies just ran around the corner. And then we progressively started to add more and more complex obstacles to that obstacle course. And it was really cool to see the puppies, like their mindset changed from when they first went in there where it was like, I don't know what to do. I just give up. Um, by the end they were like, I know what to do. Um, doesn't matter what you put in front of me.

• 13:16Speaker 06

  I'm going to go through it. And I think like the obstacle course was a really like vivid example of, of learning and overcoming a challenge. I think for a hunting dog, there's a lot of other things that come up in life, like for instance, a long retrieve or going into really heavy cover. Or getting into a boat or even like hopping in a dog trailer. Like there's lots of challenges or obstacles that, that they're going to encounter. I think starting really, really small with something that they can have an easy outcome with. Like for us, it was just go around one wall. Um, I think that's really important rather than just throwing them into hard things right at the start. Because really like for people and for animals, we gain confidence through success.

• 14:01Speaker 06

  We don't gain confidence through failure. So if we put them into something where they're going to fail and be overwhelmed, like that, that only like suppresses confidence. Um, so, so I like to think of it as like, give them the challenge that's, that's easily surmountable. Make sure that there's a reward at the end, right? Like you can't just like throw them in the obstacle course and like, hey, like figure this out. And when you get to the end, like, uh, we'll do it again, or there's nothing there. Like they have to have a motivation or a reason. With a puppy, that motivation often is going to be a treat. As they get older, that motivation might be the retrieve. So I can give a dog a really, really hard retrieve and they've got to go out there and problem solve. And they've got to show courage and like go through this creek and over this berm and through these, you know,

• 14:46Speaker 06

  chest high cat tails and whatever, uh, but they know that at the end, there's that reward of like finding the bird or, or finding the bumper. But that all, it doesn't start there. Like that's, that's the end product. So starting a really, really small controlled environment, something that I know they're going to be successful in, with a very clear reward at the end.

• 15:07Speaker 04

  Yeah. And you view this as, uh, you know, the confidence thing is huge, but you also look at this as like, you're conditioning those dogs to be problem solvers, which we, we think about training and we look at it and go, I want my dog to do this kind of retrieve perfectly every time, because that's the behavior I want. But then you take that hunting dog out into the field and you're like, you have to solve a series of problems in every environment. You know, we knocked this rooster down here, that green head there. So you're actually teaching those puppies to problem solve at eight, nine, 10 weeks old.

• 15:38Speaker 06

  Yeah. And I, I think I maybe like problem solving and confidence are two different things, but I think they're inseparable here as well. Like if you have a really confident dog, it's going to go out and like, figure out a way to do it, right? It's going to solve the problem. If you have a dog that's insecure and like, doesn't want to do anything like, yeah, it's going to fail. But yes, Tony, I, I, I think even like, training could be like training a new thing could be a problem that they have to solve. Right? Like, like sitting. We think of sitting as being really simple, but really like if I'm holding a treat and wanting that dog to do a behavior, like technically they have a problem they have to solve. They want the treat. They don't know what that behavior is.

• 16:23Speaker 06

  Um, so yeah, with an eight or nine week old puppy, like they can start learning to solve the problem of like, hey, why are you just standing there looking at me with that treat? What do I have to do? The buck goes down, they get the treat. Oh, I, I think I might, you know, have a solution to this problem. Um, so as they learn to start. Offering behaviors and trying new things to solve problems like correct, those things get more and more complex as they get older or the requirements or the ask.

• 16:50Speaker 04

  For sure, but can we switch gears here quick? So you are those puppies you were talking about that litter that you built a little obstacle course for those are springers. You are known for being an English cocker guy. Why?

• 17:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, I don't, I don't know. I don't, I so I've actually owned like eight or nine springers. I I posted these. These videos of these springers and everybody said, why did you get a springer? Like I've had quite a few of them, but cockers I've. I won the open nationals in 2018. I won the amateur nationals and then I won the open nationals. So. And then I won the open with a dog named Kato and then I started Cato outdoors. Off right after that. So everybody think for sure I've owned more cockers and I've had success in trials with cockers. So. The that's why I guess I get associated with them and I do love that breed and I have way more cockers than I have springers at this point.

• 17:42Speaker 04

  Yeah, but there had to be a reason why you went to them first and then you just kind of. You kind of glossed over this, but you went and won huge championships with them. What was it? What's it? What is it about them?

• 17:53Speaker 06

  So I I got done with school and I was living in a little apartment with my wife and I wanted another hunting dog because the one my childhood dog had died. And I'm a really impulsive person. If nothing else, I read a magazine article. And somebody mentioned a cocker spaniel and that they were little and that you could pheasant hunt with them and uh, oh, I'm on it. So I. Like I think Google had like just come out. So I did a quick search and found a guy two hours away and. I drove up and got a puppy from him and I would say like I I got a cocker like for the small hunting dog. And I stayed with cockers because of the small hunting dog that also has a big personality like they're. Spaniels are like really, really typically people oriented, like almost to a fault.

• 18:36Speaker 06

  Like you can't go in the bathroom without the dog like sitting outside the door like, hey, when are you going to come back out to play with me? So they're they're really, really sociable like they want to like. Make this connection with you like you'll see their face like the ears kind of drop and they're just like trying to like, hey, how do I crawl inside your brain and understand you? And I, I really like that about them. They're small, really smart dog. And the, the small size is like, it's conducive to living in town or to traveling. And they can still do the things that a big dog can do.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  Well, I'm, I'm a lab guy myself, but uh,

• 19:09Speaker 06

  I'm sorry.

• 19:09Speaker 00

  The size thing, the size thing occasionally does seem appealing. Jordan, thanks so much for joining us today. Uh, great to meet you. And, uh, when I get a new puppy here, maybe in the next year, maybe I'll give you a call. Get some tips.

• 19:23Speaker 06

  Yeah, give me a call or stop by. I'd love to meet you in person.

• 19:26Speaker 00

  Thanks, Jordan.

• 19:26Speaker 06

  All right. Thanks, guys. Yep.

• 19:30Speaker 00

  He knows a lot about dogs.

• 19:32Speaker 04

  He, so I'll give you a quick anecdote, anecdote here. Have you ever read, uh, All The Pretty Horses?

• 19:40Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 19:40Speaker 04

  Cormac McCarthy. So the, the lead guy there, John Grady Cole, uh, he leans down and talks to horses. So they, he comments on this, or you know, this is, this is sort of a central theme throughout that book where it's like, you don't know what he's saying to the horse, but he can break a horse better than anyone. And he's got away with them and he leans down and he says something, the conversation between him and the horse. I met Jordan six years ago at an event and he was, he would do that with his dogs. So they're performing in front of a whole bunch of people and he leans down and he says something to them. And so I'm like, I, I've read about that behavior before. Uh, he's got away with them, man.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  Our vet, when, when we first met our new vet, when we moved to Livingston, he opened the door and got in and just got down on the floor and started crawling around with the dogs. And then later he sort of realized what he was doing and said, oh, hey, and introduced himself to us. But I thought, actually, that's how I know you're real.

• 20:36Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 20:36Speaker 00

  Yep. Well, Phil, our next segment is The Price is Right, presented by our friends at Shields.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  Here it comes from Bowman, Montana, Media Radio's most exciting 10 minutes. It's The Price is Right. Tony Peterson, come on down. Lake Pickle, come on down. You're the next two contestants on Media to Radio's The Price is Right. Dog Week Edition presented by Shields.

• 21:09Speaker 00

  This game is really simple. Now Phil's gonna tell you about a product from the MeatEater Universe and you're gonna need to guess its price. The player with the closest answer without going over will be declared the winner. And if both players go over, you'll both be told to try again. And the chat should play along as well, because whoever has the closest answer will get a shout out from Phil the Engineer. Alright, there are three products for today's show. Phil, tell us about the first item up for bid here.

• 21:39Speaker 05

  I gotta play the product music, Randall. It's very important. Oh, yep. There it is. Let's start today's bidding with the Garmin Sport Pro Dog Training Bundle. Is your dog selective hearing worse than Ryan Callahan's? Has your pup come to confuse the command here with "quick, run in the opposite direction"? Well, those days will soon be a distant memory with the help of the Garmin Sport Pro Dog Training Bundle. Rated the number one dog training collar of 2025 by our friends at Shields. This puppy features 10 levels of static stimulation to match your dog's temperament, plus vibrate, tone, and a beacon light so you can keep track of your pup on those midnight potties that last a suspiciously long time. Plus, there's a built-in bark limiter, so the neighbors don't call animal control when you've got to work late editing a podcast recording that should have been sent to you

• 22:22Speaker 05

  48 hours before. If nothing works and your dog still sucks after your best efforts, hang this remote around your neck with the included lanyard at the dog park and at least you'll look like a guy who takes his canine training seriously. E-collar should only be used after properly educating yourself on safe and effective training methods. Side effects may include the unsettling realization that your dog could fully understand every command all along. Consult a professional dog trainer before use. Effecting this may decrease if your dog is exactly smarter than you are.

• 22:45Speaker 00

  Wow, Phil. Wow, you are. That's a hell of a side effects read.

• 22:52Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 22:53Speaker 00

  I didn't realize the human voice was capable of that. I thought it was always done in, uh, after, after effects, but. I always thought they fast forwarded it. Oh, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, Phil, you just sound fast forwarded. So we've got the Garmin Sport Pro Dog Training Bundle. What are your guesses, gentlemen, here? It seems like a, a fine product. Again, rated the number one dog training collar of 2025 by our friends at Shields. And I will note, these prices that we're reading here are from Shields.

• 23:26Speaker 00

  You have your answers. Why don't we flip those boards over?

• 23:30Speaker 00

  Tony goes with 179.00 and Lake goes with 500.00.

• 23:39Speaker 00

  We've got a winner. The correct answer is $249.99. Tony, well done, well done. You got one of those?

• 23:48Speaker 04

  Uh, I do not.

• 23:49Speaker 00

  It's a competitive price.

• 23:50Speaker 04

  It is. It's a great price.

• 23:53Speaker 00

  Phil, what do we got for our second item up for bid here today? And I apologize, these, these, uh, descriptions are much too long, I now realize, having listened to your first one.

• 24:04Speaker 05

  I like them. It's fun to read them. How about a pet safe automatic ball launcher? Is your throwing arm begging for mercy while your dog's still begging for one more toss? Does your furry friend have the aerobic endurance of Yanis Putellas, but the only thing you want to throw is throw back a few rum punches after, say, a long day of podcast recording with an eccentric opinionated individual who is hyper-fixated on a few specific activities that don't really align with your interests? Wow, this is hitting home, Randall. Problem solved. This ball flinging miracle launches standard tennis balls up to 30 feet, perfect for the dog who has more energy than snort on pheasant opener. With multiple distance settings, you can adjust from living room friendly to huck that sucker into the next zip code.

• 24:45Speaker 05

  And built-in motion sensors prevent balls from launching when your unsuspecting family members are in the line of fire. Your dog can even learn to reload it themselves, though success rates vary depending on whether your pet is a graduate of dog EDU or, well, not. Get ready to reclaim your sofa time while your dog runs itself into a tennis ball-induced stupor.

• 25:04Speaker 00

  Nicely done, Phil.

• 25:07Speaker 00

  Ooh, boy, that looks fancy. I wonder how much it could possibly cost?

• 25:14Speaker 00

  You guys have your answers ready?

• 25:17Speaker 00

  Let me flip them over here. Tony goes with $49.99 and Lake goes with $89.99. The correct answer is $209.99. Got a tie game here, fellas. Wait, you guys didn't have much confidence in the, in the quality of that tennis ball launcher?

• 25:38Speaker 04

  You don't see a lot of those in my world.

• 25:41Speaker 03

  I was just trying to rein it in after I so like widely overshot the first one.

• 25:45Speaker 00

  That's a good strategy.

• 25:46Speaker 05

  And I bet people in the live chat are saying, but Randall, you're not asking about the commenters and if they're guessing correctly, but here's the thing, I have not had time to even look at the comments.

• 25:54Speaker 00

  I know, I know. I'm sorry, Phil. I really.

• 25:56Speaker 05

  No, it's okay. Honestly, it's making my job easier, which I appreciate.

• 25:58Speaker 00

  The read is too taxing. The word count's too high.

• 26:01Speaker 05

  You guys can feel good about yourselves in the live chat.

• 26:03Speaker 00

  The next one's a little shorter, though. I will say, when I was preparing this yesterday, Sydney walked in and I showed her the tennis ball thrower and she said, oh, we should get that. And I said, guess how much it is? She said, $209.99. And I said, or no, I said it was $209.99. And she said, we shouldn't get that.

• 26:20Speaker 03

  Right.

• 26:21Speaker 00

  So had we been priced at like $89.99, I might be the owner of one. Anyway, on to our next item.

• 26:32Speaker 05

  How about a three-month supply of NexGuard Chewables for dogs weighing 60 to 121 pounds? It's NexGuard Chewable Tablets for Dogs. Is your furry friend a hair-covered hideaway for blood-sucking freeloaders? You need NexGuard Redbox. These beef-flavored death traps don't mess around. Don't negotiate. Annihilate. Send those nasty bugs straight to hell. NexGuard Redbox will get the job done. No survivors. One tasty treat each month gives your sweet pooch 30 days of protection from ticks and fleas, and the Redbox three-month supply means fewer trips to the vet. NexGuard, because the only things you should be sucking the life out of are your soul-crushing job, your suffocating mortgage, the bone-chilling cold of winter, and the existential dread that

• 27:14Speaker 05

  your entire existence is just a cosmic joke played by an indifferent universe. Not your dog's disgusting parasites!

• 27:24Speaker 00

  Knocked it out of the park, Phil. Thank you for that. Thank you for that.

• 27:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, in time.

• 27:28Speaker 00

  So we've got a three-month supply of NexGuard Chewables for dogs. And again, this is for dogs weighing 60 to 121 pounds. Tony, are you a NexGuard man?

• 27:41Speaker 04

  Nope. And you'll probably figure that out pretty quickly here, buddy.

• 27:45Speaker 00

  Mm, mm.

• 27:49Speaker 00

  Lake, you have dogs?

• 27:51Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. I got two of them.

• 27:52Speaker 00

  What kinds?

• 27:53Speaker 03

  Labs.

• 27:53Speaker 00

  Oh, good, good, good, good. Well, why don't we flip those boards over, gang? Tony goes with $39.95 and Lake says $100. Lake, you're closest, but you went over. The correct answer is $90.89. So Tony's gonna get away with a cheap victory here. I don't feel good about it. Yep, the lowball in Price is Right is really a coward's move. I mean, I feel better than losing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

• 28:21Speaker 03

  None of us feel as good as Phil does.

• 28:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think Phil won that, won that little segment. Thanks for playing along, everybody.

• 28:27Speaker 05

  Yeah. Thank you for those.

• 28:28Speaker 00

  Thanks for playing along, everybody, and remember to help control the pet population. Have your pets spayed and neutered. It's oddly, uh, prescient for Bob Barker to do this, knowing that we would do this now on Radio Live during Dog Week.

• 28:42Speaker 05

  He must have known.

• 28:43Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 28:45Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house, they all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats, in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you got WeatherTech, you're gonna be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really wanted to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig nice and clean, and they'll get years and years of use out of a set.

• 29:30Steven Rinella?

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• 30:13Steven Rinella?

  pretty soon. We're going to start talking about Christmas and it could bring on a lot of stress. Also, holidays can bring on a lot of family issues and sometimes when it comes to family issues, it might be smart for you to go and find someone you can talk to about it and to help make sense out of it all. Well, insurance options may now be available nationwide with BetterHelp. With insurance, many members pay $15 or less. Some pay nothing. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their 10-plus years of experience and industry-leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with

• 30:57Steven Rinella?

  your match, go ahead and switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recommendations. BetterHelp is now in-network with more than 125 health plans with many co-pays as low as $15 for eligible members. And if you don't have eligible insurance or live outside the US, you can still get 20% off your first month. Sign up and get 20% off at betterhelp.com/meateater. That's betterhelp.com/meateater.

• 31:31Speaker 00

  Let's take a break for some listener feedback. Phil, what does the chat have to say?

• 31:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, I apologize because I haven't been looking at the chat for a while. So please get your dog-related questions or not dog-related into the live chat now if you would like them answered by our crew. First comment comes from Brent Reeves. He says, little-known fact, Lake Pickle can sing just like George Strait.

• 31:54Speaker 03

  That's uh, not true.

• 31:56Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 31:56Speaker 03

  I, I mean.

• 31:57Speaker 05

  I think there's only one way to find out.

• 31:58Speaker 00

  You look so good in love, hit me.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  He looks so good in love.

• 32:03Speaker 05

  Wow.

• 32:04Speaker 00

  I prefer.

• 32:05Speaker 03

  It was on key.

• 32:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, it was. I prefer Jamie Foxx's version though.

• 32:10Speaker 03

  It's probably better.

• 32:11Speaker 00

  It is good.

• 32:12Speaker 05

  Wo Koom says, I have a question about dog steadiness. My two-year-old chocolate lab loves the sound of guns and is off to, off the place so fast, even when I just raised the gun. How best to teach steadiness?

• 32:25Speaker 00

  That's a Tony question, I think.

• 32:27Speaker 04

  Well, there's kind of a lot to unpack there, but I would say you kind of have to back up and go, the gun should, this, this is sort of going to be a parallel to gunfire introduction, right? We started with clapping. We started, you know, like distant clapping, then you work in some 22s and that kind of stuff. If your dog recognizes that gun as an excuse to break, then you gotta back up and work steadiness in a way where it's like, make him sit to wait to feed, make him sit on the retrieves and get the, the basic foundational steadiness first. Cause what this sounds like is maybe there were some false positives with the steadiness earlier. So we moved on and now this dog associates that gun with the best thing possible.

• 33:08Speaker 04

  And you have to go back and go, do you have steadiness down at first before that gun comes anywhere near it? So I would, I would back way up on that, uh, before I brought a gun out again.

• 33:20Speaker 00

  Lake, anything to add there?

• 33:22Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, one thing I would say, I'd say that's not the worst problem to have. I would rather him be eager rather than the opposite of. But yeah, I mean, just echoing off of what Tony said. I mean, all of that's based off the foundation of discipline of a dog. Like just the foundations of obedience to everything. So I mean, I don't have anything on top of what Tony said, but tailor it back and just make sure that he's steady to everything else and. Then advance back forward.

• 33:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, and it, this sounds, I don't know, I mean, filling in the blanks here, but this sounds like waterfall training to some extent. And if you think about, if you have a dog that's that keyed up, when a gun comes up to jump or to break, now you have a real safety issue. Because you imagine those birds coming in, everybody's eyes to the sky, and that dog feels the same way. You bring that gun up, might flare your birds, but now you have, you knock down a cripple in the water, you're like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna shoot it before we send the dog. That dog jumps out and you're, you know what I mean? It's just like, that's one of those things that's really tough because it's unnatural. Steadiness is unnatural for dogs, but it's a safety issue aside from just a manners and behavior issue.

• 34:26Speaker 03

  The other thing is, is like, you never want to be the guy on a waterfall hunt that has the dog that breaks. You don't, you want to get a handle on it.

• 34:33Speaker 00

  I don't bring my dogs anywhere.

• 34:35Speaker 04

  Right.

• 34:36Speaker 00

  For that reason, yeah. They're not trained at all. Phil, what else we got?

• 34:41Speaker 05

  Uh, one Spencer Newhart asks, Tony, Lake, Randall and Phil, you get to pick three hot dog toppings for the, for the rest of your life. What are they?

• 34:51Speaker 00

  Ketchup mustard relish.

• 34:53Speaker 04

  Ketchup mustard onions.

• 34:55Speaker 03

  Ketchup mustard cheese.

• 34:57Speaker 04

  Cheese.

• 34:58Speaker 03

  Cheese.

• 34:58Speaker 05

  Mustard sauerkraut.

• 35:00Speaker 04

  Hmm. Is that a Mississippi thing?

• 35:01Speaker 03

  Cheese?

• 35:02Speaker 00

  Are we talking like real, are we talking like Frankfurters? Like, or are we talking just brats?

• 35:08Speaker 05

  Well, how about, how about you get specific, Randall? This is what the people are here for. It's dog week.

• 35:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know. I'll just stick to hot dogs. Ketchup mustard relish.

• 35:19Speaker 05

  Great. On that note, Heritage Tradition asks, have you guys ever had a Seattle dog, which is cream cheese and grilled?

• 35:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:27Speaker 05

  Grilled onions, which I love a lot.

• 35:30Speaker 03

  I thought he was talking about a breed of dog.

• 35:32Speaker 04

  Right.

• 35:33Speaker 03

  What's a Seattle dog?

• 35:34Speaker 00

  No, it's a great, it's a great hot dog. It's a great regional variation on a, on a tried and true classic.

• 35:39Speaker 05

  Hardaway, Alaska asks, uh, my four-year-old blue tick has separation and just high anxiety, high anxiety in general. Is there hope on breaking her from this or is she just a house pet?

• 35:51Speaker 04

  So separation anxiety is one of the biggest stressors in most modern dogs' life. Like, this is a real issue. I would say, I don't, I don't know a lot about blue ticks, but I would say fundamentally, the dogs that get the worst separation anxiety are not necessarily as confident dogs and also haven't been not only exercised physically, but mentally. So when you want to take the edge off a dog, we, we kind of gloss over the mental part, like the little problem solving games, like, but you think about, uh, you know, kindergartners, right? Like, they learn, they have recess, they learn, they play. Dogs are kind of the same way. They need to run and get that physical exercise, but they need that mental stimulation.

• 36:36Speaker 04

  And that's not going to like totally cure separation anxiety because there's, there could be other stuff to unpack there, but you can definitely sort of mitigate some of the worst effects of it.

• 36:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, I have house pets, so again, nothing really.

• 36:52Speaker 00

  What else we got, Bill?

• 36:53Speaker 05

  Well, Pete has a very pressing question and I'm sure you guys have an answer for him. It's morel season, any tips on training my 13-month-old Visla how to find them for me?

• 37:01Speaker 04

  Is that a thing? Uh, you could absolutely do that, I bet.

• 37:04Speaker 05

  You think so?

• 37:05Speaker 04

  Just positive association, man. I, I promise you, you could probably train.

• 37:10Speaker 05

  Okay, I assumed it was a joke and I read it like a joke, but if you think that it, it could be possible.

• 37:15Speaker 00

  No, there's, there's a lot of like do, dogs that sniff mushrooms, right?

• 37:19Speaker 04

  There are some.

• 37:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, I shouldn't say a lot, but that's a thing.

• 37:22Speaker 04

  I think, I don't, I don't know this for sure, but I bet you could probably order up dried, uh, morel powder, which would have a lot of surface area for scent and you could train year round. You know, it's kind of like shed antler training. You know, a shed antler itself doesn't have a lot of scent, but, uh, ground bone powder has a lot of scent. And so I bet you could do this better than you would probably think, but you have that really short window of morel season to actually have that dog go out and get that practical experience. So you'd have to figure out a way to train it off season and that's how I would do it.

• 37:55Speaker 00

  I like it. I've morel hunted with my dogs, but

• 37:58Speaker 04

  Right.

• 37:58Speaker 00

  None of us found them.

• 38:01Speaker 05

  And then another one from Pete, how to encourage a water shy dog to get more interested in swimming. Any general tips for that?

• 38:08Speaker 04

  Uh, water shyness is way more common than people think. And so, I, in fact, the four-year-old lab that I have, I had a hell of a time getting her into the water. And I didn't see that coming.

• 38:21Speaker 04

  Go out on hot days, uh, get her really worked up and then change your training location to someplace with water. Uh, clear water's the best if you can get it. Nice gentle slope, hard bottom, so there's no surprises. So that dog, you know, if it's 95 degrees out there and you've been training, that dog gets into that water. It's, it's gonna go into the water to some level, but you don't want it to hit a ledge and fall off, get surprised. You don't want cold water, you don't want too much current. And so for my dog, I, I tried all that and it, she wouldn't go in past, she wouldn't go in past her chest. So her tail end would be floating. And I ended up having to bring out a pheasant wing, take her to a new environment and use a pond that right in the middle of it was just deep enough where she'd have to swim.

• 39:04Speaker 04

  So I had the highest reward she had ever encountered to that point in her life to retrieve, because she wanted that wing more than anything. And it was a new environment, so a mental reset. And then as soon as she did it and retrieved that wing, I never dealt with it again. And it was like a three-month process for me.

• 39:21Speaker 03

  I had a similar experience. So the, the dog I have now, no issues. The dog I had before him, he was scared to death of water, like wouldn't touch it. And I had to, but he loved feathers. And so same thing, I had to build it up there. And he did, first time I put it in the water, he would stand on, just on the edge of the water and bark and whine. Until finally, he just broke and went in there himself and then problem solved.

• 39:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, my dogs just swim. Don't have anything to do with it. Great, we'll call that for the segment now, but we'll do this one more time at the end of the show.

• 39:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, get those questions in.

• 39:54Speaker 05

  Get those questions in, I should have more, uh, time to read them this time. Thanks, Phil. Yeah. Thanks, Phil. It's a great listener feedback break. It was. We're on to Meat Eater Movie Club.

• 40:15Speaker 00

  I'm already self-conscious about how long this is.

• 40:21Speaker 00

  Wilson Rawls: Where the Red Fern Grows, adapted for Screen in 1974, is a beloved coming-of-age story about a young boy named Billy Coleman and his two coonhounds in the Ozark Mountains of Oklahoma. It lives on as a beloved family classic that continues to resonate with viewers for its authentic portrayal of rural life, the earnest performances from its actors, and the emotional impact on the younger audiences. The plot of Where the Red Fern Grows is relatively simple. Boy wants dogs, boy gets dogs, dogs die prematurely. But this minimalist narrative structure functions as a devastatingly elegant meta-commentary. Like Sisyphus eternally pushing his boulder uphill only to watch it roll back down, Billy Coleman's tireless efforts to acquire his hounds, his meticulous training regimen, and

• 41:05Speaker 00

  his eventual hunting triumphs constitute an elaborate exercise in cosmic futility. The mathematical certainty with which the narrative arc concludes in the death of his short-lived companions mirrors the inescapable terminus of all biological existence, suggesting that the universe operates not as a moral economy where hard work yields proportional reward, but rather as a cruel charade that temporarily entertains our aspirations before mechanistically dismantling them. Now, please indulge me, I'm going to depart from a subject at hand, but this will all make sense. On September 15, 1833, the English poet Arthur Henry Hallam suddenly dropped dead of a cerebral hemorrhage in the city of Vienna, Austria at the tragically young age of 22.

• 41:46Speaker 00

  Over the following 17 years, Hallam's former classmate at Cambridge, Alfred Lord Tennyson, paid tribute to his dear friend in a sprawling narrative poem titled "In Memoriam A.A.H." that wrestles with the inevitability of tragedy and loss. Perhaps most notably, the poem introduced Victorian audiences to the metaphor of nature, red, and tooth and claw, later adopted by the acolytes of Charles Darwin for its clear-eyed characterization of a world shaped by the cold calculus of death and survivorship. Where the Red Fern Grows serves as a cinematic literalization of Tennyson's meditative elegy. The correspondence between these works transcends mere thematic similarities. Both emerge from profound personal grief, Tennyson's for Hollum and Rawls from childhood memory of his own dogs.

• 42:27Speaker 00

  Both employ animal violence as a stand-in for universal suffering, and both ultimately question divine benevolence in a world of struggle and violence. Tennyson's vision of creation as an indifferent slaughterhouse, quote, "so careful of the type she seems, so careless of the single life," finds its perfect juvenile counterpart in Billy Coleman's Ozark Woods. The profound difference, of course, is that Tennyson was writing for a sophisticated mid-century readership capable of appreciating 3,000 lines of dense poetry. Where the Red Fern Grows is curiously tailor-made for ambushing elementary school students with philosophical provocations, where Billy Coleman's dogs merely a cruel diversion from the fundamental emptiness of human experience.

• 43:09Speaker 00

  Perhaps most insidious is the film's calculated subversion of Billy's crowning achievement, the hunting tournament victory, through his grandfather's bumbling ineptitude. This transforms Billy's moment of triumph into a hollow victory contaminated by chance and human error. The message crystallizes with brutal clarity. Even when one executes everything perfectly, random circumstance or the incompetence of others can instantly nullify one's achievements. The trophy Billy receives thus becomes not a symbol of genuine accomplishment, but rather a monument to the arbitrary nature of success and failure, a child's introduction to absurdity wrapped in golden metal. Most remarkable is the film's half-hearted gesture towards meaningful consolation.

• 43:51Speaker 00

  The red fern itself, supposedly planted by angels where extraordinary devotion exists, offers no genuine comfort. It is merely a botanical curiosity marking the patch of earth where Billy's beloved companions decompose. This supernatural element serves only to emphasize that even the divine cannot reverse the finality of death. Now, this reviewer is not prone to whining about the emotional underdevelopment of today's coddled youth. Discussions of generational decline and our society's refusal to teach children hard lessons are ripe fodder for old men with talk shows. But there is something refreshing. Uh, where the word, sorry, I rewrote this by hand.

• 44:31Speaker 00

  There is something refreshing about the film's bitter, oh, excuse me. Sorry, this is just awful. There is something refreshing about the bitter existential truth serving as the film's core message. Attachments are temporary, bodies fail, and nothing, not love, not courage, not even narrative filmmaking convention, can prevent our individual and collective descent into oblivion.

• 44:59Speaker 00

  It seems as though children are meant to absorb this nihilistic parable as a heartwarming coming of age romp. The film endures as an unforgettable initiation ritual into the awareness of life's temporary nature, ensuring that generations of young viewers understand that emotional investment invariably leads to loss, and that the cycle continues with a frigid indifference to human sentiment, until all of us join our beloved pets in the warm, filled soil.

• 45:33Speaker 00

  Now- Dog week.

• 45:37Speaker 00

  I didn't know what to make of this film, I'll be honest. I remember reading the book as a child, and I watched the film yesterday, and I was, uh, I was horrified and shocked by it. Tony Lake, what are your thoughts here?

• 45:50Speaker 03

  Uh, so, we, we were given that, we were told we had to read that book when we were in second grade.

• 45:56Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 45:56Speaker 03

  And, uh, we read it as a class, and when it came to the point where the dogs died, the entire class, including the teachers, were like bawling in the classroom. Then we watched the movie, and as a second grader, you don't pick up on some of the things, right? And then she actually had a guy who was a coon hunter come into our second grade classroom with his blue tick hound.

• 46:15Speaker 00

  So you could fully appreciate what had just died on the silver screen before you.

• 46:19Speaker 03

  What they were getting at, yeah, they want, but, so, rewatching the movie, having not seen it in second grade, you just pick up on some things, uh, and I'll just, I'll just go straight into it. I couldn't, the first, the first scene of the movie, they touch on, they're like, Billy's family, his parents have this goal, they want to move to Tulsa and take over their uncle's feed store. So you're like, okay, that's a thing. You go to the whole thing, he gets his dogs, he trains them, they're great coon dogs. The dog, old Dan gets killed, that's terrible.

• 46:48Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:48Speaker 03

  And then little Ann dies, and Billy is on the ground-

• 46:54Speaker 03

  Holding his dead dog crying that has just passed away seconds ago. And his mom and dad walk up and they're like, you know, Billy, this kind of works out.

• 47:04Speaker 00

  Now we can move to Tulsa, right?

• 47:07Speaker 03

  And I watched that. I was like, sheesh.

• 47:09Speaker 00

  I forgot about, I forgot about that in the opening when they talked to the Mr. Kyle. And he does mention that they want to move to Tulsa. Yeah, maybe this film is actually about the tragedy of, uh, you know, capital and labor having to follow, you know, the market and, and it's just, it's a tragedy about how unrooted we are from, from our homes because of the system in which we live. Tony, what are your thoughts?

• 47:34Speaker 04

  Well, I, I'm going to piggyback here on, on what Lake just said. I, I mean, I caught that too. I watched this yesterday and finished it this morning, but also I wondered when Billy tripped one of the brothers that fell on the hatchet.

• 47:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:49Speaker 04

  I was like, is that involuntary manslaughter?

• 47:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:51Speaker 04

  And that, you know, cause it was pretty, they were pretty, they kind of glossed over the fact that this kid died.

• 47:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:57Speaker 04

  In a, in a fight over this white whale coon that he was chasing here. Uh, so when he's inconsolably sad and his beloved dogs have died and his mom's like, well, I guess we're going to do the Tulsa thing.

• 48:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:12Speaker 04

  Sorry, Billy. I'm kind of like, well, Billy killed a kid.

• 48:17Speaker 04

  Like two weeks earlier and you guys didn't even seem to care.

• 48:21Speaker 00

  No, the next scene was they were eating dinner and grandpa really wanted him to enter into the coon hunting tournament.

• 48:25Speaker 04

  Right, right. They moved on real quick from that.

• 48:28Speaker 00

  It's a movie about two dogs dying, but a kid dies in the middle of it and that just sort of glosses right over.

• 48:34Speaker 04

  He's kind of a prick.

• 48:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:36Speaker 04

  So everybody's like, whatever.

• 48:38Speaker 03

  The grandpa's like, look, Billy, I know you killed that kid.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. And, and his dad was a bad guy too. His dad really

• 48:44Speaker 04

  Right.

• 48:44Speaker 00

  Drives a hard bargain.

• 48:45Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, I, but I think that was the lesson there, right?

• 48:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:48Speaker 04

  So the bad dad has bad kids.

• 48:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:50Speaker 04

  The good dad figures out a way to facilitate this coon dog situation with Billy and it changes his life and he becomes a man and moves to Tulsa.

• 48:57Speaker 03

  And, and I keep hinging on like the, the parent thing before little Ann dies. There's a scene where it shows like little Ann's distraught. And she's not doing very well and she's on the floor and Billy's trying to get her to eat and the dad turns around at the dinner table. He's like looking at something. He's got, he pulls his glasses off. He goes, Just looks like the life's gone out of her anyway. And then he just goes back to doing what he's doing. God.

• 49:20Speaker 04

  Young boy.

• 49:21Speaker 00

  Or when he brings back old Dan and, and he's like working on him in the kitchen table. He just says something like, I've never seen wounds this bad before.

• 49:33Speaker 03

  Needless to say, it did not hold up for what I remembered in second grade.

• 49:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was, I was also struck by how often I had to go back and re-watch a scene because the lighting was so bad that I couldn't tell what had happened.

• 49:44Speaker 04

  Right.

• 49:45Speaker 00

  I would like when I, they got to the funeral, I went, I had to go back. I was like, what? Did one of those kids die? Did Billy die? And then I, I went back and saw the, the hatchet thing again.

• 49:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  Same with the, the lion scene happened very quickly.

• 49:57Speaker 04

  Right.

• 49:58Speaker 03

  What I want to know, how'd they film that?

• 50:02Speaker 00

  Like the lion scene?

• 50:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then they're like, they didn't have CGI back then.

• 50:07Speaker 04

  I think they threw a mountain lion with those two dogs.

• 50:11Speaker 00

  Trained lions.

• 50:11Speaker 03

  Let's see what happens.

• 50:12Speaker 04

  That's a Homeward Bound thing.

• 50:14Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. I, um, yeah, I, I, I didn't think this movie really warranted a traditional discussion of what was realistic in it from an outdoorsman's perspective and what, what fell flat from an outdoorsman's perspective. Cause I walked away from it and just thought, oh my God. There's a lot to say and there's also not a lot to say.

• 50:34Speaker 04

  Right.

• 50:37Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

• 50:39Speaker 05

  Yeah. Sean, Sean says, why the hell do all the classic animal books end with death? Where the Redfern Girls, Old Yellow, Old Yellow, the yearling, I'm forgetting a few, but can't we have a few creatures that live happily ever after? And like, it is true. If pets, dogs especially, I feel are used a lot. It's kind of like narrative. I don't want to say crutches because a lot of times the dogs are the point of the story. They drive the plot. But it's, it's their, their death or our fear of losing them that just, it's like a shortcut to the heartstrings. You know, I'm trying to think of like animals that just like pets that are a part of a story that are a main part of a story that end up living throughout the whole movie or the whole book.

• 51:16Speaker 04

  It's literally called dead dog writing.

• 51:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:18Speaker 04

  I mean, it's a, it's a trope.

• 51:19Speaker 00

  I just, but I, I, I, it's just shocking to me. The guy was like, I got an idea for a book.

• 51:27Speaker 00

  Dogs die. Here's the, here's the twist. He didn't have the dogs when the book began. And he had to get the dogs, but then the dogs die. That's it. That's it.

• 51:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, but that's a story. I mean, that's been replayed. That's been repackaged a lot.

• 51:44Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's like a modern day Romeo and Juliet, you know?

• 51:48Speaker 04

  Is it?

• 51:49Speaker 00

  Died young. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's another story. It just ends with people die.

• 51:53Speaker 04

  Right.

• 51:54Speaker 00

  I think there is something to, to be said for creative works that just end with untimely deaths. And then that's just the end.

• 51:59Speaker 04

  Right.

• 52:01Speaker 05

  I think, I think a good use of a dog in media that kind of subverted the trope, but also fulfilled it is that episode of Futurama. Have you seen Futurama before? Have any of you? Oh, okay. It's gonna be a dull conversation, but the dog doesn't die, but his owner Fry gets, gets trapped, cryogenically frozen and, you know, travels through time. That's the whole idea of the show. But there's an episode that focuses on the dog he, he had before he was frozen. And then the, the episode ends with the dog just waiting outside his, the, the, the pizza place that he, where he works at, without knowing he was frozen. And it shows the seasons, like time lapse. The dog gets older and older and older.

• 52:38Speaker 04

  Oh geez.

• 52:38Speaker 05

  It's incredibly moving.

• 52:39Speaker 00

  I will say, I will say, just as my final thought, the, the most realistic aspect about this movie for me was that the hounds just turned barking into background noise.

• 52:50Speaker 04

  Right.

• 52:50Speaker 00

  Like I was sitting there at my desk and just every now and then I'd register that dogs are barking. And I was like, oh, this is exactly what it's like to spend time around hound dogs.

• 52:57Speaker 04

  Right.

• 52:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:58Speaker 04

  Absolutely.

• 52:59Speaker 00

  Just. And then the one runs out of house and just jumps on the logs for no reason. I was like, yep, that's a hound dog.

• 53:05Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 53:06Speaker 00

  So. Any final thoughts? I think we're running a little overtime for our next guest here.

• 53:13Speaker 03

  I wish I would have kept it in second grade.

• 53:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 53:15Speaker 04

  Right.

• 53:15Speaker 00

  Some things are best left.

• 53:17Speaker 04

  Right.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  In the ground.

• 53:20Speaker 00

  Onto our next guest.

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• 56:00Speaker 00

  Our next guest is a wildlife parasitologist and the director of clinical parasitology at Cornell University, Dr. Mani Lejern. Mani, welcome to the show.

• 56:09Speaker 07

  Thank you for having me.

• 56:10Speaker 00

  Thanks for joining us. So you are on to talk about ticks. And I think when it comes to dogs, we're thinking prevention. So what is the best flea or tick preventative on the market today? And is there anything that's a sure thing, 100% tick preventative measure we could take?

• 56:32Speaker 07

  I think my first advice is like the local veterinary practitioners, they should be the best bet to formulate a plan for treatment or control of ticks. But I can just probably comment on the drugs that are available on the market.

• 56:47Speaker 07

  They can be broadly classified into two, like one that repulses the tick and the other one that actually kills the tick. The repellence, one good example is vermutrin, as the name suggests, like, you know, you apply on to the skin and then they kind of not allow the tick to attach to and take a blood meal. And that's what they do. But if the ticks are exposed to this drug, they can in fact kill the ticks. But the second category, which actually kills the tick, like there are a lot of drugs available, the early version of those drugs, like they're a bit messy, you need to apply on to the skin. And and and and again, a lot of safety concerns, say, after applying it until it dry like you can allow other pets to access the

• 57:32Speaker 07

  the dog that got this application, as well as kids, like, you know, they are not allowed to touch because of those safety issues and limitation. The owners are not like actually complying with with this drug administration because in some areas where like the tick issues, animal issue, like, you know, like it is year-long issue, like you need to periodically apply this, but because of this limitation, it's really hard for somebody to apply that. But the newer version, like, they are really good, like, so they they they are designed for rapid kill of ticks like and and these drugs are available both as a topical application onto the skin, as well as like the drugs can also be given orally.

• 58:12Speaker 07

  So that's the good part of this drug and and this drug class is called isoxolene. Sorry about the tough pronunciation of this. But again, these are very good, a very good drug, like, you know, once like taken orally or applied topically. And they can kill the tick within two to eight hours, depending on which drugs you use, they they are that effective, rapid kill. And then some of the drugs in in this class are also mound acting, like they are effective for twelve weeks. And many other drugs are effective for twenty-eight days. So then you could establish a periodicity of this application and the owners can comply with.

• 58:49Speaker 07

  And so I think like the new class of drug, which can be given orally, is the best bet that are in the market to control prevent tick infestation. Gotcha. Thank you. Last question you asked about like if it is hundred percent, I would say like the main issue here is owners compliance. The lack of efficacy that the perceived lack of efficacy is mainly due to lack of compliance with the way the drug need to be administered, following the label instruction or following the guidance from the vet, like, if everything is followed perfect, like the drugs are highly effective. Any drugs that are available in the market are highly effective, but but on the other hand, like I also want to say that no drug is hundred percent effective.

• 59:33Speaker 07

  Despite you follow all the protocol, label instruction, you still see some ticks hanging on to the body. So. Yeah.

• 59:42Speaker 00

  So the big thing is following the, uh, following the, the manufacturer's directions rather than picking out a specific product on the market.

• 59:50Speaker 07

  That's correct.

• 59:50Speaker 00

  Gotcha. So the second thing that I think about, when I think about ticks is Lyme's disease. And here in Montana, there's just in the news that we have our first known, uh, case of a deer tick with Lyme's disease in the state. Is this surprising to you? Um, or would you have expected this discovery sooner? I mean, how does, what does the spread of Lyme's disease look like from a, from the chair of an expert?

• 1:00:14Speaker 07

  I, I, I read this news as well. Um, so Lyme disease is very common here in New England. I'm from New York, so, uh, New England states like it's very common and, uh, and, and mid Atlantic states, yes, it is there. And also upper Midwest as well, like you would expect, uh, uh, Lyme disease on the ticks that, uh, transmits this, um, uh, this disease is more prevalent in there. Uh, but the fact is like a geographic range expansion for this tick is happening, not just for this tick, for other ticks also, uh, across, uh, New, I mean, uh, US like a geographic range expansion is happening. And now, uh, in that sense, like it is not surprising, but I read the news and it seems like, uh, they collected this

• 1:00:55Speaker 07

  tick from a hunting dog and then identified what the stick and, uh, uh, and also found Lyme there. Uh, but it seems to me an introduction, it's an introduction even. I don't know if, uh, the tick is actually established in that. So when I say introduction, see, uh, so there are a lot of factors that plays, uh, for a tick to get established in a, in a particular geographic locality, like host species abundance. So in this case, the deer tick, uh, if you have a white-tailed deer population which is exploding, yes, that's a place where like this tick can survive. And not just a white-tailed deer, there are other, uh, hosts like, um, rodents and even birds, migratory birds, all those. So, and, and again, uh, the other

• 1:01:37Speaker 07

  things such as, um, um, um, microhabitat that would help with, uh, establishment of this tick. So everything need to be lined up for the tick to establish. So if it is just a- introductory event like it happens with a lot of pigs in different places to ticks get introduced say for example migratory birds when they carry the nympho stage of the stick and they can drop the stick uh uh uh far far off places but uh on that place where it is dropped off like uh it need to establish and a lot of factors based rule uh for getting this established up uh so I can give one example uh here in New York like in Long Island which is the east of New York City um so thirty years ago lone star tick which is not the deer tick the lone star tick was not known in that not known to occur in that space

• 1:02:22Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:02:22Speaker 07

  but at the eastern end of that uh Long Island like it was introduced uh three decades ago and then that slowly spread and now the entire Long Island is like a full of uh lone star tick that's because of the white tail deer population uh which is like um exploding exploded in that region as well as the wild turkey which can host the stage of the stick you know they are also reestablishing in that region so all this play played a major factor in allowing the lone star to establish in that area so same could be true for deer tick to establish in a place like it has to have all these factors in place.

• 1:03:00Speaker 00

  Hmm. So, say you find a tick on yourself or your dog, uh what do you want to look for in terms of determining whether or not you should be worried and then uh like what are what are some of the symptoms that would ma- make you concerned if they develop after finding a tick on you or your dog as far as Lyme's disease go?

• 1:03:21Speaker 07

  On uh for Lyme disease, um you know, dogs like they are not like humans and humans like if you are bitten by a tick, a a deer tick, like it's easy uh to see uh that you react to it and then uh you get the disease and uh the bullseye lesion which uh we all know uh can be caused by uh by uh by the introduction of the Lyme disease into a host, especially in humans, but the dogs. They are different, like the disease are not like typical, like the the the signs are not typical. Uh and sometimes like uh the dog don't even suffer from the disease, they are symptomatic. So it is really hard to say. If um uh the dog has um um like based on looking at like, you know, the dog has picked up the disease or not.

• 1:04:03Speaker 07

  Uh but other and non uh uh what to say, so other signs such as like a fever uh and and arthritis, all those things can occur. So I think like a consulting event is the best bet to uh confirm if uh the Lyme disease is present or not. By doing all additional uh ancillary tests.

• 1:04:20Speaker 00

  Gotcha. And one final question for you. Other than, other than Lyme disease, what are some other, uh are there any other tick-borne illnesses that dog owners should be worried about or aware of?

• 1:04:35Speaker 07

  Um uh not just the deer tick, like uh there are three other ticks that dogs can uh be infected with. In fact, like I would say four others. Uh so the American dog tick, the lone star tick, and the brown uh uh dog tick, and the reason one is the Asian long on tick. So these all can affect dogs. Uh and they come with their own pathogens to transmit. And I I just want to comment about the Asian long on tick. So this tick was not here in the US. And it was detected in twenty seventeen in New Jersey on a sheep. And uh and and this tick has a wide host preference and uh and uh and they are seen in plenty in environment where this occurs. And uh as of now, as per the U S D A study, like twenty one states uh where like the sticks have already been identified.

• 1:05:20Speaker 07

  Uh but not on to Montana, like I think like uh uh Kansas and the Missouri is where like uh it has been documented so far. But they can affect dogs and they can transmit uh what is it called, the Rocky Mountain spotted fever. So in Montana, like the Rocky Mountain wood tick, uh which is responsible for transmitting uh Rocky Mountain spotted fever to humans as well as in dogs. Uh but um um I know we know like it occurs there, uh but if this new Asian long on tick, if they spread to this new geographical area, uh they can be of major concern. The reason is like uh Asian long on tick are not like other ticks, like uh other ticks they made, they need for for producing progenies.

• 1:06:03Speaker 07

  A female needs a male, but with Asian long on take like the females don't need a, doesn't need a male like they can just produce progenies on their own. So if they hop, hop onto your host, like they, they can produce, they can have a good meal, produce a lot of progenies and then they can swap onto the host. And in some places in, in Virginia, West Virginia, we had seen cases where like cattle are infected with this host, with this tick and then they just drink blood and beat the host to death. So that's one concern, but they are, they can also transmit Rocky Mountain spotted fever. So in new location where this ticks emerge and, and they, they can be of concern for transmitting Rocky Mountain spotted fever.

• 1:06:46Speaker 00

  Got you. Well, Dr. Lejeune, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing some of your expertise with our audience.

• 1:06:54Speaker 07

  Yeah. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much.

• 1:06:57Speaker 00

  Appreciate it.

• 1:07:00Speaker 00

  Now, our final segment this week is Throwback Thursday, Dog Edition.

• 1:07:23Speaker 00

  That's the kind of stuff we like to do around here to have fun, right? Listen to Phil's jingles.

• 1:07:28Speaker 05

  Pretty silly, huh?

• 1:07:29Speaker 00

  It's fantastic. Well, Throwback Thursday is where we each share a photo and share the tale that goes with our photos. Phil, who do you have up first for us?

• 1:07:39Speaker 05

  I believe I have you first, but I can switch it up in any order.

• 1:07:40Speaker 00

  Oh, no, no. Let's go with what you have. I don't want to cause any more trouble than I have already. Oh, so this is, I had a hard time picking some of my dog photos and trying to assemble a story out of them. So I thought I'd, Dolly had an interesting hunting season this year. People ask if I have a hunting dog and I say no. But she does end up going hunting quite a bit. This is her as a puppy, being used, using an FHF bino harness as a puppy carrier, looking for some spring bears. And then over time, that was her first hunting trip. Over time, we, we try to teach her about safety in the field. Next photo, please. We practiced our marksmanship together. Next photo, please.

• 1:08:24Speaker 00

  And we did some habitat work, you know, giving back to the wildlife that we all love. Next photo, please. So Dolly joined us on a few hunts this fall. This is a deer that my wife Sydney shot and you can see Dolly there on the right and then Rosie, the good dog on the left. Next photo. The day after that, we helped my buddy pack out an elk and Dolly discovered her love for elk and elk hunting. Next photo, please. She carried the forelimb of that elk for about one and a half miles and then mysteriously dropped it once we got very near to the vehicle.

• 1:09:03Speaker 00

  And then last, I believe this is my last photo, then she accompanied us on a bison hunt and she went ape shit on that bison and just every little piece of trim that came off, Dolly ate it and then she was very interested in the hide as well. So, you know, that's just sort of a nonsensical, nonlinear explanation of my hunting experience with my non-hunting dogs.

• 1:09:28Speaker 05

  That was lovely.

• 1:09:28Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:09:29Speaker 03

  Beautiful.

• 1:09:29Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:09:31Speaker 05

  Lake, I've got your pictures up next. I didn't, I wasn't sure the order you wanted them in.

• 1:09:35Speaker 03

  I don't think they're in any particular order. I just picked five. So that's, that's my dog Knox.

• 1:09:40Speaker 00

  That's a real hunting dog.

• 1:09:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's one of those. Yep. That picture in particular is important because that is the first pheasant, wild pheasant. We were in North Kansas. It's the first wild pheasant that he found and flushed him, retrieved him all by himself. And I was, I think I was prouder than he was. I was, I was pretty pumped. That, okay, that's a special one. That's his first duck hunt ever. He would have been like six months old at the time. And again, I think I was probably prouder than he was. Next photo, please, sir. I like this one in particular because I forgot the dog stand that morning. So if you'll notice, he's sitting on the bottom, the bottom half of a climber stand and that is a cut out square patch of carpet that I'm using so it doesn't fall through it.

• 1:10:24Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 1:10:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:25Speaker 00

  Brilliant.

• 1:10:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, fantastic ingenuity. Oh, this one's my favorite. So that's my wife Lacey and that was her first duck she ever killed, big, pretty green head and it was just icing on the cake. I mean, there's, anyone knows me, like I'd love hunting with my dog. It's just what, and so being able to hunt with my wife, she shot that duck and then Knox went and retrieved it, I was, I was so happy. Is that, I think that's it. Is there any more? That was a duplicate. There you go. So that's the, that's the archives of Knox, my dog. Good looking dog. Yeah, he's fun. He's a lot of fun. How old is he? Seven. Just turned seven last month. All right, Tony, we've got a photo for you here.

• 1:11:02Speaker 04

  So this is the only photo I put in because this story is going to take me a little while. So this is my, this dog's 12 now, but in this photo she was about a year. And for people who don't know, I, this dog's 12. I have two 13 year old daughters. So I got a puppy, this puppy, when my daughters were one, which was a lot. So my wife and I still fight about this, even though I'm right. My wife came home and left a bag of groceries on the counter. I come home later and the groceries are on the floor. And there's some wrappers strewn around because she's a lab, right? We left her home with a lab, or lab was home alone. I start looking at it and I go, man, this looks like a big box of raisins and they're all gone.

• 1:11:45Speaker 04

  And so called my wife, I'm like, hey, did you, and she's like, yeah, I bought a pound of raisins. Probably the only pound of raisins we've ever bought in our lives. Dog ate the whole thing. They're supposed to be toxic to dogs, so I'm freaking out. So I take her to the vet and she spends all day at our regular vet. And the vet calls me and says, hey, you got to get this dog to an overnight vet to monitor it. Keep it, keep the fluids going so its kidneys don't get messed up. So I'm wrangling two, you know, year and a half old kids and this dog. Take her to the overnight vet, which is not cheap. And then the next morning they call me up and I gotta go get her and they're like, I don't think any amount of raisins could kill this dog.

• 1:12:26Speaker 04

  But, so I, I load up the girls, they're in their PJs, walk in there and Luna had never been away from us. So Luna was losing her shit. And I hear this dog going nuts in the background while I've got my two little girls who can stand and walk, but not real well. The vet tech comes around the corner like she's water skiing behind my dog who heard my voice and has the cone of shame on. Luna runs out, the first thing she does is run up to one of my daughters and send her flying and the, my daughter hits the floor where the scale, the dog scale is on the floor with her face. And so my daughter's screaming and has blood coming out of her nose. My dog's losing her mind and I have another child to wrangle who's just watching the whole spectacle.

• 1:13:12Speaker 04

  So we get, and we get my daughter's nose stopped up. Go outside, I load up the girls in their car seats, uh, because I was kind of discombobulated. I didn't have the crate width, so I put Luna in the front seat and I pull out into rush hour traffic and I look over and Luna makes eye contact with me and just starts pissing because she was so hydrated and the whole, and I have nowhere to go because I'm in rush hour traffic now. So this dog's like looking me in the eyes while I'm like looking down and there's just this puddle spreading through. So anyway, raisins are probably toxic to some dogs. For sure, not that one.

• 1:13:51Speaker 00

  Man, that's good.

• 1:13:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:13:53Speaker 00

  That's good. Yeah, we, we accidentally, we came home from the bar one night where our, and our first dog was there and we're eating grapes and we're throwing them up in the air and catching them and we started throwing them up in the air to Arlo. We looked at each other and we go, wait a second, aren't grapes toxic for dogs? And we looked it up and that's when we did the first, uh, you know, hydrogen.

• 1:14:15Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:14:15Speaker 00

  Peroxide, shake them up and let them blast it all out on the back lawn trick. We'd had to do that a few times with Arlo. Yeah.

• 1:14:22Speaker 04

  Oh, it worked. So I tried that with Luna and she just sat there drinking that up. She's like, give me more hydrogen peroxide. Like she didn't, it didn't work.

• 1:14:31Speaker 00

  No, we've used it a couple of times. Uh, we've used it a couple of times. That, that dog Arlo had a very similar deal. We, we made a bunch of soup, like we made soup and stew and stuff all day and froze it all. And so the trash had like 10 different pound like plastic wrappers from, from burger and you know, all the meat and stuff and then two Costco chicken carcasses in there. So I took Dolly to the vet because she was like six months old and I got back and I, the trash is everywhere. I'm like, where are all the meat wrappers? Where are the chicken carcasses? And we go to the vet and the vet's like. I don't know what to tell you, man. It's either gonna come out or it's not.

• 1:15:12Speaker 04

  Right. Cross your fingers and pay attention.

• 1:15:14Speaker 05

  Do you guys know if that's a breed thing or a size thing? Like, why does the stuff like, I, cause I hear the same thing about like garlic and obviously chocolate and stuff like that. Where some dogs can have no problem with it, but others don't.

• 1:15:26Speaker 04

  It definitely is a toxicity thing that way.

• 1:15:28Speaker 03

  Yeah, cause I will say, we always hear like grapes, like, don't touch grapes with a dog and it's bad. But most of the stories I've heard are like yours, where it's like, just turns out to be okay.

• 1:15:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:15:39Speaker 00

  Well, I'm glad that you and your daughters and your dog were none the worse for wear after all that. Although your, your, the seat of your truck, sounds like it got the worst of it.

• 1:15:49Speaker 04

  Uh, it did, it was very, uh, it was easier P to clean up than it could have been because she was so hydrated, which was part of the problem.

• 1:15:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:57Speaker 04

  It was more the fact that it was like a 30 hour ordeal that cost me like a grand.

• 1:16:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:00Speaker 04

  For nothing, other than my wife, making that huge mistake and putting my dog in danger.

• 1:16:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:07Speaker 04

  I would like to say.

• 1:16:08Speaker 00

  Gotcha. Well, I'm glad, glad that it all turned out all right.

• 1:16:12Speaker 04

  It did.

• 1:16:13Speaker 00

  Uh, that brings us to the end of the show, folks. Phil, do we have any final listener feedback?

• 1:16:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, I thought I'd go back to some interesting comments we got during the movie club. Uh, we have Peter, he says, wow, Randall needs a hug and Jesus.

• 1:16:26Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:16:27Speaker 05

  Uh, Bradley says he might cry in pity for Randall right now. Uh, Brian Lammers says, what just happened? MD outdoors says, JFC Randall. Josh says, tune into Meat Eater today for your existential crisis. And Ryan says, hand on face emoji. Uh, and then I Killigan says, my dog stopped wanting treats, even the highest, stinkiest reward treats and does not care about praise while training. Do you have suggestions? Thank you, gents.

• 1:16:58Speaker 04

  Want me to take that one?

• 1:16:59Speaker 00

  Never run into that issue before. Uh.

• 1:17:04Speaker 00

  He doesn't like any, anything?

• 1:17:05Speaker 04

  I would, I would ask, well, what kind of dog? Right? Does it like to retrieve?

• 1:17:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:17:10Speaker 04

  Does it have a special object where it's like, that toy is my toy? Like there, you have to find something it cares about.

• 1:17:16Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah. And if your dog doesn't care about anything, truly anything.

• 1:17:20Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:17:21Speaker 00

  They should seek professional help.

• 1:17:23Speaker 03

  Cause I can think of some instances where the dog not wanting treats might not be a bad thing, you know?

• 1:17:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:17:31Speaker 00

  It's a double edged sword.

• 1:17:32Speaker 04

  Right?

• 1:17:33Speaker 05

  Uh, Nick asks, why are there still hot dogs left?

• 1:17:37Speaker 03

  It's a fair point.

• 1:17:38Speaker 04

  There won't be in about five minutes when we're done with this.

• 1:17:40Speaker 00

  Nick, the hot dogs came in here about 15 minutes before the show. I ate three of them before the show and started on my fourth at the beginning and then I felt sick.

• 1:17:50Speaker 00

  So I'm just going to be very forthright with the audience. I felt sick for eating too many hot dogs. Next question, Phil.

• 1:17:57Speaker 05

  You know, we, uh, Brody had this problem a few weeks. Spencer was in the chat.

• 1:18:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:18:02Speaker 05

  And fielding questions and just throwing off the whole, uh, cadence of the listener feedback portion. He's been doing that again, this whole hour. He's been answering questions for people in the chat.

• 1:18:13Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:18:13Speaker 05

  And I, I, it's, we've, and so we don't have a lot of questions to pull from. Uh, so if you guys have some, this is your last chance. You got about 30 seconds here.

• 1:18:21Speaker 00

  Questions.

• 1:18:21Speaker 05

  Randall will have another hot dog while, uh, while you, uh, get those questions.

• 1:18:25Speaker 00

  I've still got this nubbins left.

• 1:18:31Speaker 00

  It's cold. I have more questions.

• 1:18:36Speaker 00

  For one, two, three, we're running out of dog week here, gang.

• 1:18:40Speaker 00

  That's a weird way to end the show. Thanks for joining us, everybody. This has been a lot of fun. I hope you enjoyed. Tony Lake, thanks for, uh, thanks for stopping by. We'll see you next week on Meteor Radio Live, same place, same time. Signing off.

• 1:19:08Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats, in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you've got WeatherTech, you're going to be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig nice and clean, and they'll get years and

• 1:19:51Steven Rinella?

  years of use out of a set. Visit weathertech.com for your holiday shopping today. In military families, service is more than a job, it's a legacy. At American Military University, that legacy can help open new doors through education. If someone in your family served in the military, you could be eligible for reduced tuition. Take the next step with flexible online programs built for real life. Learn more at amu.apus.edu/military.

• 1:20:29Speaker 08

  A BetterHelp ad. I would like to formally request more storage space in my brain. Because somehow I can forget why I opened my laptop where I put my keys, or the name of someone I met 30 seconds ago. But I can remember an awkward conversation from six years ago in extraordinary detail. So if your brain came with a delete button, what would you use it on? Maybe it's that tough breakup you've analyzed from every possible angle, an irrational worry you know doesn't deserve this much attention, the conversation with your boss you keep rehearsing in the shower, or that one comment someone made that you're still thinking about weeks later. We don't always get to choose what sticks around in our heads. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that gives you space to

• 1:21:13Speaker 08

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• 1:21:28Speaker 06

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.