Would You Watch YouTube at 4x Speed?

This week, Marques and Andrew kicked things off by trying to explain to David the absurdity of the Luka Doncic trade in tech terms that he would understand. After that, it was all about the Pixel 4a battery update issue. Then they discuss a new app that Apple just dropped and a new app that Adam is really excited about. They wrap it all up talking about Meta trying to make the Metaverse happen, YouTube experimenting with 4x speed, and Andrew ranting about streaming services. There was a surprising amount of news to go over despite not having any new gadgets to discuss. Enjoy! Links: 9to5Google - Pixel 4a Battery Update Verge - New YouTube 4x speed feature Apple Invites app Partiful app Business Insider - Meta article Tapestry app Music provided by Epidemic Sound Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Socials: Waveform: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David Imel: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Support for the show comes from Google Gemini. You know that moment when curiosity strikes? You're exploring a new city with the family and a sculpture catches your daughter's eye. What is that? Who made it? With Gemini, you can snap a picture and get a fully interactive breakdown of its history, architecture, and even hidden secrets. Gemini is built for moments like that. Whether you're learning something new, solving a problem, or looking for your next favorite thing, Google Gemini is here to help. Download Gemini, Google's AI app, or visit gemini.google.com to learn more.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools, threads, and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying blind. That's the problem that Jira solves. What's the goal tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all these pieces together from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more, so nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot, assign them work directly, or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  That's J-I-R-A dot com.

• 1:25David Imel?

  Bye, bye, partyful. Hello, Apple invites. All right, I'll.

• 1:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, Apple rhymes with partyful. You could have just.

• 1:34David Imel?

  Not really. Apple.

• 1:35Andrew Manganelli?

  Bye, bye, partyful. Hello, Apple. That rhymes way more than what you said.

• 1:41David Imel?

  It's missing a syllable.

• 1:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Partyful. It's missing a syllable, but it rhymes.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  All right, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts, I'm Marquez.

• 1:56Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm Andrew.

• 1:56David Imel?

  And I'm David.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  And this week, we've got a new Apple app that actually looks pretty solid. We're going to talk about why Meta is considering 2025 a make or break year, for some reason. Pixel 4A update, that's. Doing way too much for some reason as well. And also.

• 2:14Andrew Manganelli?

  What is going on in the episode?

• 2:16Speaker 01

  And we've got a new app in the timeline app category Adam is excited about. And then we'll end with a rant. We'll end with a rant from Andrew. But first, the biggest news of the week, the NBA trade deadline is coming up.

• 2:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Sometimes news transcends, you know, the niche that we're in.

• 2:32Speaker 01

  It really does.

• 2:33Andrew Manganelli?

  And I think we need to talk about Luka Doncic getting traded.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Unforeseen. I know David, you, you probably saw this news and were immediately like, whoa.

• 2:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Huge trade.

• 2:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Crazy. The only thing that I know about this is that they posted it on the verge. Which makes no sense to me.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, actually.

• 2:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  That's hilarious.

• 2:52Andrew Manganelli?

  But I didn't look into it.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Perfect. I figured we would explain it to you in other terms.

• 2:59Andrew Manganelli?

  In tech terms.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  In like tech terms. And then hopefully you will understand better how shocked you all were. Cause I remember, I remember where I was when I found out.

• 3:09Andrew Manganelli?

  I think I remember, I read it on the our hockey subreddit. Like I was just on my phone and it was like, how would you describe the Luka Doncic trade in terms of hockey players? And I was like, wait, Luka got traded?

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:23Andrew Manganelli?

  I know him as, he's a really good Overwatch player.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  This traded just means that, that like they offered him more money, so he went to a different team.

• 3:31Andrew Manganelli?

  No, no.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  No, so.

• 3:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Signing.

• 3:32Speaker 01

  So there are contracts and, and company owners. So here's the actual, uh, let me find the actual trade just so I can make.

• 3:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. While you find that, it seems like every niche of the internet is doing like a, how do I explain the Luka trade in X?

• 3:46Speaker 01

  So it's that big of a deal?

• 3:47Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a huge deal. Yeah. So we're going to try and do it in tech terms.

• 3:51Speaker 01

  Just one guy though, right?

• 3:53Andrew Manganelli?

  There's a couple of other things, but the, the main meat and potatoes of the deal is like one player for one player. And we're going to talk about.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  That's what they usually do.

• 4:02Andrew Manganelli?

  There's, there's all sorts of.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  I feel bad for the other guy because they're only talking about the Luka guy.

• 4:08David Imel?

  Does nobody care about the other guy?

• 4:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, we'll, we'll explain to you about the other. His name's Anthony Davis.

• 4:15David Imel?

  That's the first time I've heard of that.

• 4:16Andrew Manganelli?

  He's like-

• 4:17David Imel?

  Sorry, Anthony.

• 4:18Andrew Manganelli?

  An amazing basketball player.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  He is. He played in the Olympics for Team USA this year.

• 4:23David Imel?

  Did they win?

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Totally dominant.

• 4:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Dominated, yeah.

• 4:25David Imel?

  That's cool.

• 4:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Great basketball player.

• 4:27David Imel?

  Okay.

• 4:27Speaker 01

  So just-

• 4:28Andrew Manganelli?

  The thing is-

• 4:28David Imel?

  Alright.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, the thing is-

• 4:29David Imel?

  Give me the-

• 4:30Speaker 01

  Top level, like, face of the franchise players typically do not get traded.

• 4:36David Imel?

  Doesn't LeBron move around, like, all the time?

• 4:38Speaker 01

  LeBron moves around on his own accord.

• 4:40Andrew Manganelli?

  He chooses to.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  He doesn't get traded. So he'll decide to sign a contract with the Lakers.

• 4:45David Imel?

  Okay.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  And then now the Lakers own his contract.

• 4:47David Imel?

  Okay.

• 4:48Andrew Manganelli?

  This might be a good point. The difference between, like, trading and signing as a free agent. So like, your contract-

• 4:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Goes X amount of years, and if it's within that X amount of years, you go to another team, it means teams agreed on a trade.

• 5:01David Imel?

  And you have to move?

• 5:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  So your contract can be traded.

• 5:05David Imel?

  Wow.

• 5:06Andrew Manganelli?

  But if you wait till the end of that contract and you go to free agency, then you get to choose if a team offers you money, where you go. So this is a trade. Luka, did Luka know about this? He didn't-

• 5:18Speaker 01

  So nobody knew about this. So that's what, so what I'm saying is, like, franchise players, like, some of the biggest names in the NBA, you think, like, Steph Curry. Like, when you think of Steph Curry, you think of the Warriors. The Warriors will not trade Steph Curry. All of the fans would be mad.

• 5:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  All of the teammates would be mad.

• 5:34David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Wherever he goes, they won't, like, the fans, it would just be weird.

• 5:37David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  It just wouldn't work.

• 5:38David Imel?

  Right.

• 5:39Speaker 01

  What's another NBA player you know? Just like, a big name. Kevin Durant, have you heard of him?

• 5:44David Imel?

  A little-

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Giannis?

• 5:46David Imel?

  No.

• 5:46Andrew Manganelli?

  What about, um- Joel Embiid?

• 5:48David Imel?

  Ya- Yao Ming?

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Yao Ming, okay. So, he was on the Rockets.

• 5:54David Imel?

  Okay.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  And, he wasn't, eh, you know, he was a franchise, sure, franchise player, let's say, let's go with that.

• 5:59David Imel?

  Okay.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  The Rockets-

• 6:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 6:01Speaker 01

  Fans love this guy. They wouldn't trade him, even if you offered another great player. Sometimes they'll offer two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight players, future draft picks, a whole bunch of other assets, and they still won't trade this guy.

• 6:13David Imel?

  Okay, yeah.

• 6:13Speaker 01

  Luka's that guy, for the Dallas Mavericks.

• 6:16David Imel?

  Okay.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  So he's, he's like Steph Curry. Yes.

• 6:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Let's, let's do the, the tech version of this. I think Mark has brought up yes, yes, no earlier, which is an old segment from Reply All. We're gonna describe- This to you in tech terms and then we'll see if you you can explain the severity of the trade afterwards.

• 6:36David Imel?

  Okay.

• 6:36Andrew Manganelli?

  And see.

• 6:37David Imel?

  Okay.

• 6:37Andrew Manganelli?

  What that means. Can I go first? I have a pretty simple one.

• 6:41David Imel?

  Okay, so the trade is Luka Doncic for Anthony Davis. There are a couple of other small assets involved.

• 6:48Andrew Manganelli?

  For Anthony Davis and a first round pick. Because that is part of it. There was a couple of other players. So, and I think what's important here is who initiated the trade. It was the team that Luke is on, the Mavericks.

• 6:58David Imel?

  They want to get rid of him?

• 7:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Well. They did get rid of him.

• 7:01David Imel?

  Well, yeah.

• 7:01Andrew Manganelli?

  That was everyone's reaction. So what would your reaction be is if I have an S24 Ultra?

• 7:07David Imel?

  Okay.

• 7:08Andrew Manganelli?

  And you have an S20 FE and Galaxy Buds and I said, from the same year.

• 7:15David Imel?

  So you're comparing Anthony, whatever his name is.

• 7:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Anthony Davis to an S20 FE, S20 plus?

• 7:21David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 7:23Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not bad. And I come to you and I say, I want your S20 FE and Galaxy Buds. I will give you an S24 Ultra.

• 7:33David Imel?

  Oh. What would be my reaction?

• 7:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 7:37David Imel?

  No.

• 7:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Really?

• 7:39David Imel?

  Wait. Oh, yes. Sorry. I was thinking the other way around.

• 7:42Andrew Manganelli?

  So like in my eyes, it's.

• 7:44David Imel?

  Cause the Galaxy Buds are not that expensive.

• 7:46Andrew Manganelli?

  They're not that expensive. They're fine. It's a nice thing to have. The S20 FE or I could even go S21 plus maybe, maybe S21 plus and but like a phone that works totally fine for you.

• 7:57David Imel?

  Yeah, but S24 Ultra is like.

• 7:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Exact.

• 8:00David Imel?

  Much better.

• 8:00Andrew Manganelli?

  It's good. You know, we're getting to this point of security updates are seven years for Samsung phones now, right? So like you're kind of as taking the old phone.

• 8:08David Imel?

  Is the security updates like the contract, you know, seven years?

• 8:11Andrew Manganelli?

  It's, I'm thinking of as age, because Luca's 25, Anthony Davis is 31 or something. 25 years old? Yeah. So like, I'm giving you.

• 8:21David Imel?

  I'm turning to death.

• 8:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Something that's, you know, it's going to lose security updates in like three years, but it's still a good phone right now. But you're giving me a phone that's better and also is going to get security updates for six more years than.

• 8:36David Imel?

  Oh, you're talking, no, I would get that.

• 8:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry, you would get that. Yeah.

• 8:38David Imel?

  I would get that. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

• 8:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 8:41David Imel?

  Cause he's 25.

• 8:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:43David Imel?

  So he's, unless he like breaks his leg.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's got a bright future ahead of him. I have another version of this.

• 8:48David Imel?

  Okay.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  I see that you have an M4 MacBook Pro. I would like to trade you my Intel i9 MacBook Pro and AirPods. What do you think?

• 9:00David Imel?

  No.

• 9:01Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 9:01Speaker 04

  Why would I ever do that?

• 9:02Speaker 01

  It's pretty good.

• 9:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Although this trade would be not.

• 9:06David Imel?

  The i9 is famously a not good MacBook.

• 9:09Speaker 01

  The i9 is Anthony Davis. It's fine.

• 9:12Andrew Manganelli?

  It's great.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  It's pretty good.

• 9:14David Imel?

  It's overpowering, you gotta cool him down.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it sometimes isn't the healthiest.

• 9:18David Imel?

  Yeah, and the battery's gonna run out at some point.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Probably got a lower.

• 9:22David Imel?

  If you put it in the freezer, it works better, yeah.

• 9:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:24Andrew Manganelli?

  And when you, when you first got it, it was like.

• 9:27David Imel?

  The best thing ever.

• 9:27Andrew Manganelli?

  The best, yeah.

• 9:28Speaker 04

  Okay, I got one for you.

• 9:30David Imel?

  Okay.

• 9:30Speaker 04

  The Fuji X106.

• 9:33David Imel?

  Okay.

• 9:33Speaker 04

  For the Sony A6500, plus a memory card.

• 9:38David Imel?

  Well, the A6500 at least is, it has interchangeable lenses.

• 9:42Speaker 04

  It does.

• 9:43David Imel?

  But no.

• 9:46Andrew Manganelli?

  It's a good camera.

• 9:47David Imel?

  Plus a memory card?

• 9:48Speaker 04

  Plus a memory card.

• 9:49David Imel?

  Do I get to have a memory card in my own camera?

• 9:51Speaker 04

  No.

• 9:51Andrew Manganelli?

  You have to buy it.

• 9:52David Imel?

  Well, then it won't work.

• 9:52Andrew Manganelli?

  You have to buy your own.

• 9:53Speaker 04

  You have to buy your own, yeah, yeah.

• 9:54David Imel?

  Oh, yeah, no. Wait, so why did they trade this guy?

• 9:58Speaker 01

  The, okay, the word on the street, I mean, because nobody saw this trade coming, this was a very, you know, trades that are this big typically leak a little bit, like people start talking about, oh, this guy is not happy with the team he's on, maybe he'll get moved. Nobody saw this coming. The players didn't see this coming. The coaches didn't see this coming. The owners didn't really know about it.

• 10:18David Imel?

  Wait, so.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  The GMs made the trade.

• 10:19David Imel?

  Who, what's a GM?

• 10:20Speaker 01

  A general manager.

• 10:21David Imel?

  Grandmaster?

• 10:21Speaker 01

  General manager of the teams.

• 10:24David Imel?

  General manager.

• 10:25Speaker 01

  Essentially, they run the team and the organization.

• 10:28David Imel?

  Okay.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  And they quietly, these two organizations had conversations with each other, and no other team made the trade, and that was it. And typically, a big player like this, you shop him around. Like, okay, this is a-

• 10:41David Imel?

  Do what you can get.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Everyone wants Luka.

• 10:43David Imel?

  Right.

• 10:44Speaker 01

  Everyone would take Luka.

• 10:45David Imel?

  Is he the best player in the NBA?

• 10:46Speaker 01

  He's one of the top five best players in the NBA.

• 10:49David Imel?

  And he's 25?

• 10:50Speaker 01

  He's 25.

• 10:50David Imel?

  Wow.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  And if any other GM had known that he was available, they would have offered everything to get him.

• 10:57David Imel?

  So is this like a backdoor deal?

• 10:58Speaker 01

  It seems like the only rumor is, you know, he was scheduled to get a $350 million super max for his next contract, and he's sometimes a little bit out of shape in the offseason.

• 11:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Which I, I understand because he is top 500 ranked in Overwatch 2. He is nasty at Overwatch 2.

• 11:19David Imel?

  Wait, really?

• 11:19Andrew Manganelli?

  And Overwatch.

• 11:20David Imel?

  Wait, he's top 500? How does this man have time for both these things?

• 11:24Speaker 04

  How are you elite at two different things?

• 11:26Andrew Manganelli?

  There's a lot of athletes who are really good at video games sometimes.

• 11:30David Imel?

  That makes sense.

• 11:31Andrew Manganelli?

  There was a hockey player who got traded because they said he played too much Fortnite. But he's like one of the best in the league.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  My argument would be, Luka could show up with a pack of cigarettes in his mouth. And I would still take him because he's so good at basketball.

• 11:45David Imel?

  So my question is, why didn't they shop him around?

• 11:49Speaker 01

  That is everyone's question. No one knows the answer.

• 11:53David Imel?

  That seems sketchy.

• 11:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, yeah, just one of those weird things that happens at the NBA trade deadline and, you know? More weird trades have happened. It's just, it's just one of those weird news headlines.

• 12:04David Imel?

  Even if he got $350 million, do you think he could have gotten more?

• 12:07Speaker 01

  So that's the super max that you're eligible for when you play with a certain team for a bunch of years in a row? So he's been on Mavericks his entire career and-

• 12:15David Imel?

  How long has his entire career?

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Five years so far. And he would have been eligible for-

• 12:19David Imel?

  He started at 20 years old in the NBA?

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, and a top draft pick and would have been eligible for a, the most expensive contract in NBA history. Which, honestly, you pay the man. He's worth it. Uh, but for some reason, they didn't feel like paying him.

• 12:34David Imel?

  Wow.

• 12:35Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll throw one more tidbit out there. The Mavericks just announced that they're refunding season ticket holders who are mad enough about-

• 12:43David Imel?

  Holy crap dude.

• 12:45Andrew Manganelli?

  There were like, people with signs outside of the stadium.

• 12:48David Imel?

  No way, really? Wow.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Look, there's a reason the Lakers said yes.

• 12:55David Imel?

  Well, they got traded to Lakers.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, so the Lakers got Luca and, look, if you're the Lakers and you have Anthony Davis and somebody calls and goes, "Hi, we'd like Anthony Davis," you're like, "No." And they're like, "We'll give you Luca." Like, "He'll be on your front step tomorrow." Yes, of course.

• 13:10Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll personally drive him.

• 13:12David Imel?

  Do the Lakers still have LeBron?

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 13:14David Imel?

  Yes.

• 13:15Speaker 01

  And, so you know who LeBron is, that's important. I think everyone knows LeBron and LeBron's one of the faces of the league and he's 40 and he's been one of the legends of the game forever. He's probably got one, two, three more years left and the Lakers looking forward to their future, we're like, "When this guy's gone, who do we have?"

• 13:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  Nothing.

• 13:34David Imel?

  And the Lakers have always been a very famous team.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  They've always had some franchise face.

• 13:39David Imel?

  Right.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Whether it's Kareem or Kobe or Shaq, like, they just, now it's LeBron and who are they gonna have? Luca.

• 13:46Andrew Manganelli?

  This is like the Lakers looking forward and being like, "Who can we have?" And then someone knocks on their front door and hands them a briefcase full of money. Like, they didn't even go out looking yet.

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:57Andrew Manganelli?

  And it just came to them.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  So now, just to, just to test your understanding, just to make sure you understand the trade.

• 14:03David Imel?

  Okay.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Can you explain the Luca AD trade in Pokemon Trading Cards?

• 14:09David Imel?

  Do I have to explain how the game works?

• 14:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just have to, just like, card for card.

• 14:13David Imel?

  It's like trading Golem, who's very good, for, who else is like, pretty good?

• 14:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like it's almost like trading, if we're talking just about like, strength and battling, like, Golem's, I would say like Charizard EX because Charizard's the big flash, flashy, like, bright card that everyone wants, but in terms of battling, it's not really that good.

• 14:35David Imel?

  Right.

• 14:35Andrew Manganelli?

  You have to evolve so much.

• 14:36David Imel?

  That's a great card.

• 14:37Andrew Manganelli?

  First level Charmander's not that good.

• 14:38David Imel?

  You have to evolve Golem a lot too.

• 14:39Andrew Manganelli?

  You do, but it's so much easier to-

• 14:40David Imel?

  And Geodude and Graveller are not very good cards.

• 14:42Andrew Manganelli?

  The, the new Graveller's not too bad.

• 14:44David Imel?

  Maybe this was the best.

• 14:45Speaker 01

  Graveller has 40 damage.

• 14:46Andrew Manganelli?

  This one way down the road.

• 14:47Speaker 01

  They have so much health though and you just played drug it off first.

• 14:50David Imel?

  I mean, it's 100 health, it's not like a ton, you know? But, anyway.

• 14:57Andrew Manganelli?

  I think that's a solid.

• 14:58David Imel?

  I think that's pretty good. Okay, yeah, we'll say that.

• 15:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, and just real quick, any, any, well, okay. Done with NBA. If you want to come back to the tech podcast, we're here.

• 15:09David Imel?

  We're back.

• 15:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Did you pull anything good in the new packs?

• 15:12David Imel?

  Yeah, actually.

• 15:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, did you?

• 15:14David Imel?

  Yeah, so I did one of the, I saved up a bunch of hour glasses and did one of the 10 cuts at once, which was a bad decision. Don't do that.

• 15:22Andrew Manganelli?

  I remember that one.

• 15:22David Imel?

  Delayed gratification, my friends, is worth it always. They have this option where you can just open 10 packs at the same time and it's just like super fast and it's lame.

• 15:32Andrew Manganelli?

  So I completely disagree.

• 15:34David Imel?

  Wow.

• 15:35Andrew Manganelli?

  That is how I play basically every game. I just hoard all of my gold until I can buy everything.

• 15:42David Imel?

  That's like so not fun, though. The progression isn't there.

• 15:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 15:46David Imel?

  It's like hard, hard, hard, hard, hard. Now you're super overpowered.

• 15:48Andrew Manganelli?

  And then I'm awesome.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh, man.

• 15:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Like doing all the side quests before you go after the first boss and then just one-shot them.

• 15:54David Imel?

  Yeah. I don't know. I've gotten a lot of cool cards, yeah.

• 15:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know this one as well. I think I got one good, like, um, what's, like immersive dragon type guy or like

• 16:08David Imel?

  I didn't get an immersive dragon.

• 16:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Bronosaurus kind of guy. But then I also got one, like, that looks like a lawnmower and I just don't know what Pokemon's doing anymore.

• 16:15David Imel?

  In the fourth generation, there's this Rotom Pokemon. It's an electric ghost Pokemon and he goes inside household appliances. All the Rotom cards are bad, but they're cute and fun. So I think that's the point of them.

• 16:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Same.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  I'm just gonna cut this off. Right here.

• 16:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Thank you.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  Anyway, so yeah, Luca and AD got traded. A whole bunch more trades are happening. NBA deadline. All sorts of fun stories there. Anyway, this is a tech podcast, allegedly.

• 16:42David Imel?

  Allegedly.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  There is an interesting tech story that I didn't find out about until today. That is

• 16:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 16:47Speaker 01

  uh, plaguing Pixel 4A. I don't know if you guys have heard of this.

• 16:51David Imel?

  You know who you are.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  So Pixel 4A, a couple of years old, but apparently Google has started pushing a software update to it that has dramatically lowered the battery capacity

• 17:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  by up to 40%.

• 17:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Now, reading this headline seems kind of insane, like, why would that happen?

• 17:11David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  And so if you go back, it seems to read that there was some sort of battery issue starting to pop up with old Pixel 4As. And probably enough of them started to pop up that Google saw a trend slash pattern and just to be safe, decided to just nip it in the bud and dramatically lower the charging capacity for Pixel 4As for everyone who owns them.

• 17:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:33Speaker 01

  Which is a bummer if you own one, because now your phone has a little over half the battery it just did the day before that update got pushed.

• 17:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  But at least it won't explode now.

• 17:42David Imel?

  Yeah, Google has been very vague about why they're pushing this update, but they said it was apparently related to battery concerns. But every single thing that they did indicates that these batteries were probably going to blow up.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  It'd just be a safety concern. You just don't want a safety concern.

• 17:57David Imel?

  Yeah, they noted it as a emergency maintenance release and they cut the voltage of the battery from 4.45 volts to 3.95 volts, which doesn't sound like a lot, but that cuts the usable charge down by about 44%, according to testing from Android Authority, so.

• 18:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Has anyone checked on the 5, I mean, the 4A 5G? Didn't it also come out at the same time?

• 18:20David Imel?

  Yeah, but it might have just been that specific battery cell. They are also offering free battery replacements, Google Store credits, and a cash payment of $50. So it seems like they're really trying to motivate people to get, like, swap out their battery.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  Do we have a 4A?

• 18:36David Imel?

  Probably.

• 18:37Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't think so.

• 18:38David Imel?

  I thought we had every Pixel.

• 18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, we do.

• 18:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, we might?

• 18:41Speaker 01

  I'm gonna go check and see if our 4A is doing anything weird.

• 18:43David Imel?

  I loved the 4A. It was such a good phone. It was $350.

• 18:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Do I have to look? I think it's on top of the cabinet or the bottom.

• 18:50Speaker 01

  I'll check after the pod. I'll check after. And if there is anything weird about it, I will insert a clip.

• 18:55Andrew Manganelli?

  It's definitely not on fire.

• 18:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, unless it happened in, like, the last 30 minutes, but.

• 19:00David Imel?

  Some other crazy things about this, this update also gets rid of the adaptive charging feature if you didn't have it on before. And if you, you know, the battery indicator in the status bar? You can either just have the picture of the battery draining or the actual number. If you didn't have the number on before, it gets rid of the option to even have the number on. Which is crazy, which is just, yeah, it seems like Google is very afraid of these phones.

• 19:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  If you have a Pixel 4A, let us know if you got this update, or if you've noticed anything weird about your phone.

• 19:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  And I'm curious to see what we see.

• 19:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Honestly, I know they're like, it's cool that they're doing a battery replacement. At this point, for whoever's still using one, if there's like, if you can prove it, they should just give you the latest A, A model.

• 19:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 19:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, this is probably not that, that many people, like, a couple thousand maybe, just give them the update.

• 19:54David Imel?

  I don't know. That was a very popular phone.

• 19:56Andrew Manganelli?

  It was a popular phone. We're what?

• 19:58David Imel?

  Forty million. Five.

• 20:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Five generations past it, and it's already the like, more middle range ones, so maybe not. I'm sure there's plenty, but I think like, at this point, if you're giving fifty dollars credit and batteries, I think you should just give them a free upgrade.

• 20:13David Imel?

  Yeah, that's true. So, yeah, if you're out there, be careful.

• 20:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Stay safe out there, friends.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  Don't put your Pixel 4A in your pocket.

• 20:23Andrew Manganelli?

  Don't go to sleep if your Pixel 4A is plugged in.

• 20:26David Imel?

  Yeah. Uh, next is something that's very dear to mine and Adam's hearts.

• 20:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Very much so. You wanna talk about it, David?

• 20:32Speaker 01

  You psychos.

• 20:34David Imel?

  We are certified speed consumers.

• 20:37Speaker 01

  Absolute animals.

• 20:39David Imel?

  Yeah, so Adam and I famously consume content at 2X speed.

• 20:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Famously?

• 20:43David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, nice.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  Maybe infamous.

• 20:48David Imel?

  Depending on who you ask.

• 20:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 20:50David Imel?

  YouTube Premium is testing a bunch of new experimental features, which-

• 20:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Not on my account.

• 20:55David Imel?

  Wow. Do you have Premium?

• 20:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, and I wish I had this feature. I didn't get it. I've been checking, refreshing every day.

• 21:00David Imel?

  Wait, you're right. I have a CD, oh, no, it's a Labs feature, you have to turn it on.

• 21:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, okay.

• 21:05David Imel?

  Which I did not do.

• 21:05Speaker 01

  Oh, it's a feature.

• 21:06David Imel?

  So, okay, there are many features, there are many features. One of them is that you can now watch videos in up to 4X speed.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Jesus Christ.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  What are you guys doing?

• 21:16Andrew Manganelli?

  What is happening?

• 21:17David Imel?

  On iOS and Android.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  4X speed?

• 21:19David Imel?

  That is a little, I've been trying to train myself for 3X, like, it's, I've been working on it. 2.5 I can still do. 3X, 3X, you know how your brain takes in information and processes it, right?

• 21:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 21:32David Imel?

  Yeah?

• 21:32Andrew Manganelli?

  You know how it does that.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  Famously.

• 21:35David Imel?

  Famously. Famously. Uh, I feel like when I'm consuming things at 3X, it's ju- it's like, it's like, it's like 5% too fast for my brain to be able to understand what's happening before the next thing is coming in.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:51Speaker 04

  Do you know how to read fast?

• 21:52David Imel?

  No.

• 21:54Speaker 04

  There's a way to read fast where instead of reading each word out loud in your head, you just let your eyes scan it.

• 22:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:01Speaker 04

  Cause your brain will catch up and process it. That's how you gotta start watching these YouTube videos.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  My brain doesn't work like that.

• 22:06Speaker 04

  Just stare at the screen, glaze over, and just like, let it all come in.

• 22:12Speaker 01

  I...

• 22:15Speaker 01

  I was just editing a short and we were trying to get our shorts under 60 seconds.

• 22:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  And sometimes if we record the whole short and I edit it and it's all good and I get to the end, it'll be like a minute and four seconds. And the only way, I've like trimmed all the air and I've cut it up perfectly.

• 22:31David Imel?

  You speed up the whole thing.

• 22:32Speaker 01

  And the only way for me to get it under a minute is to speed it up by like 5%.

• 22:36David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  And I'll go and I'll highlight the whole thing and I'll, I'll, I'll set it to 105% and I'll play it back and it'll sound just a little bit too fast and I, I don't know if I wanna publish that cause it doesn't really sound right, it's just a little bit too fast or whatever. You guys are telling me you listen to videos at 250% speed of what they were meant to be watched at?

• 22:55Speaker 04

  And want more.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  And you want more?

• 22:57David Imel?

  Well, I don't know if I want more. I mean, it would be useful to have 300, you know what I mean?

• 23:02Speaker 01

  What's an example of a video that you would?

• 23:05David Imel?

  Bro, the meta on YouTube is like four hour videos right now.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  So those videos, I feel like, aren't really meant to be watched the whole time. You kind of listen to it in the background, you watch some of it, you glance over, maybe it's like a podcast, like you're, it's like on the Bluetooth in the car.

• 23:23David Imel?

  Yeah, that's not a good example. For, for research, when I'm researching something, I need to like watch as many videos as I can. And I like just consume the information, you know?

• 23:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, like if I'm watching an explainer, just leave it on 2X.

• 23:36David Imel?

  And I have to watch multiple different videos explaining the topic to kinda get it in multiple different ways in my head. And so the faster I can ingest that information, the better.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  I get that. I guess it's just that those probably are not very visual explainers. Because I can process the audio at 2X, I absolutely don't think you can process.

• 23:55Speaker 04

  Well, you could pause it, you know, so like, yeah.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Well, then it's just 1X.

• 23:58Speaker 04

  I'm just letting... Then it's zero.

• 24:01David Imel?

  Pause it and then it catches up.

• 24:03Speaker 04

  If I'm watching an explainer about something and I'm really confused about like a graphic on screen or something like that, I'll just pause it and then I'll like wrap my head around it like, "Okay, go on," and then continue with 2X.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  I wonder if the amount of time you would have taken up watching at 1X or watching at 2X and then pausing for graphics?

• 24:19Speaker 04

  I mean, I'm not sitting there for four minutes looking at the graphic, you know?

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:22Speaker 04

  But that's how much time I save watching 2X.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  I guess just as a video editor, I, my feathers are rough.

• 24:28David Imel?

  Okay, here's a question for you.

• 24:29Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:30David Imel?

  Do you edit videos at 2X? I do.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  What?

• 24:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 24:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 24:34David Imel?

  If you press L in Final Cut, it goes at 2X.

• 24:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, this podcast is only edited in 2X.

• 24:39Andrew Manganelli?

  I do that. Editing the podcast, it's really good, especially editing a podcast you were part of because you kind of know what's happening. That's how I used to do first passes when I edited.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  A first pass, maybe?

• 24:51Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 24:51David Imel?

  The main way I edit videos is like ripple trim back, ripple trim forward and add edit. So it's like it cuts out everything behind it, adds an edit or cuts out anything, everything in front of it. And so you're just like, "Bluh, oh, here's a part, ripple trim back, bluh, here's a part, ripple trim back, add edit, move forward, bluh." Yeah.

• 25:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 25:13David Imel?

  So how do you, I mean, you edit at 1X speed?

• 25:15Speaker 01

  I do. I edit everything at 1X speed very meticulously and I make-

• 25:18David Imel?

  You're still quite fast.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  Eighth of a second, tenth of a second, fraction of a second adjustments.

• 25:22David Imel?

  I do that too.

• 25:24Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, you could still do that.

• 25:25David Imel?

  You still do that.

• 25:26Andrew Manganelli?

  First pass.

• 25:27David Imel?

  First pass.

• 25:28Andrew Manganelli?

  He's saying like first pass, to find the takes.

• 25:30David Imel?

  Yeah. Although I will say, I probably never watched a video at regular speed before publishing it, so.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  I think, I think you should because of how many other people will.

• 25:43David Imel?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:45Speaker 04

  Also, this has bitten me in the butt before because there's been times where like you guys drop in a frame link of a video that's going live and I'll watch it on like 1.75X speed.

• 25:55David Imel?

  Why does-

• 25:55Speaker 04

  For those that don't know, Frame.io is a service we use to like leave comments on each other's videos.

• 25:58David Imel?

  And it's limited to 1.75?

• 26:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's limited to 1.75, but even still, I've missed certain like weird cuts or things like that because in the speeding, it just won't-

• 26:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 26:09Speaker 04

  Play that back.

• 26:09David Imel?

  Because when you're playing back at 1.7-

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Five, you're going to miss frames. It has to skip frames.

• 26:14David Imel?

  Yeah, but I start feeling.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  A flash frame or you like miss or like something extends for one or two too many frames into the next scene or something weird happens like that, you'll just miss it in the edit. And you have to watch it at 1X to catch that.

• 26:25Speaker 04

  I feel like I always catch those in frame, even after multiple people have watched. And now I'm realizing, because I'm the only person that I feel like watches things at 1X.

• 26:33David Imel?

  I watch at 1X.

• 26:33Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 26:34David Imel?

  I'm 280 HD dude. If I'm like trying to watch back a 17 minute video that I'm like trying, you know, it's like, I'll get kind of antsy and then I'll have to pick up my phone.

• 26:43Speaker 04

  It also depends on the video.

• 26:45David Imel?

  Check TikTok.

• 26:47Speaker 04

  If you start scrolling TikTok.

• 26:50Speaker 04

  Like some people talk really slow. So when you put it at 2X speed, it almost sounds like now they're talking normal.

• 26:55David Imel?

  Well, and when you're used to watching 2X content, 1X speed feels like it's taking forever.

• 27:01Speaker 04

  And real, real life goes so slow for me. Like you guys sound so slow right now.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  That's like, can't.

• 27:08Speaker 04

  In real, yeah. You know. I'm broken Marquez.

• 27:12Speaker 01

  Fair. I, would you, I just feel like you wouldn't watch a movie at 2X. You wouldn't watch a.

• 27:17Speaker 04

  That's art though.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  You wouldn't watch a Kurzgesard video at 2X.

• 27:20Speaker 04

  No, I do. You watch those at 2X?

• 27:23David Imel?

  Yeah, I don't watch movies at 2X.

• 27:24Speaker 04

  I watch anything that looks like I'm supposed to be taking artistic value from it. I watch those at 1X.

• 27:29David Imel?

  Same.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 27:30Speaker 04

  But if it's information based.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  I aim to make videos.

• 27:33Speaker 04

  2X baby.

• 27:34David Imel?

  No, I watch, I watch way far at 2X.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  I, I aim to make videos as a creator that people watch as intended.

• 27:41David Imel?

  Yeah, that makes sense.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  But if.

• 27:43Speaker 04

  What if your intention is 2X?

• 27:45Speaker 01

  Then publish it at 2X.

• 27:47David Imel?

  Publish it.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Oh, I see. Make a 2X export and upload that.

• 27:52David Imel?

  And then just title it, watch this at point 5X speed.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  If you need to be real time.

• 27:56David Imel?

  Lee, I want to do this so bad.

• 27:58Speaker 04

  Don't ever do that.

• 27:59David Imel?

  Can I do a clip?

• 28:00Speaker 04

  This whole conversation will be a clip.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  Publish this at 0.5X.

• 28:06David Imel?

  And say, watch at 2X.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  And then tell people to watch it at 2X. So this is like a 30 minute clip.

• 28:12David Imel?

  Okay, so back to the story. So apparently they're going to allow 4X. I don't know what this is for. I, you would be a superhuman if you were able to consume at 4X. I feel like it's more for. Rushing forward in the video, but I don't know, you don't just click around in that case?

• 28:28Speaker 04

  You just hold.

• 28:29David Imel?

  You can just hold.

• 28:30Speaker 04

  Hold space to fast forward.

• 28:31David Imel?

  Yeah, but does that go to two?

• 28:33Speaker 04

  That does go to X.

• 28:34David Imel?

  So, oh, it could do four. Maybe it's for that then. Yeah, but it's only on iOS and Android for some reason. Other updates that are in YouTube Premium and they are in testing currently are smart shorts downloads on iOS, so it automatically downloads shorts for you.

• 28:51Speaker 04

  How many?

• 28:52David Imel?

  Uh, great question. Probably like five. I mean, there's value to like, I'm on the subway and there's no...

• 28:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, but that's assuming you're watching every 60-second clip to the full.

• 29:03Andrew Manganelli?

  But that's the thing about it has to download every single one, yet the majority of things in a shorts feed that I actually watch to full is like 5%.

• 29:12Speaker 04

  Exactly. That's what I'm saying. So it's probably gonna download like 100. So you can just swipe through.

• 29:18Andrew Manganelli?

  145 seconds of scrolling.

• 29:21Speaker 04

  I would love to know.

• 29:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Just maybe not quite that bad, but...

• 29:23David Imel?

  Okay. Um, that, there's also shorts picture-in-picture on iOS, which is, you know, you know, there's that meme of like, of like, watching subway surfers while doing everything else? A shorts while you're doing something else on your phone?

• 29:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Shorts while you're on reels?

• 29:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  That's a little crazy.

• 29:44Speaker 04

  It's a little crazy.

• 29:46David Imel?

  Uh, there's going to be high-quality audio for 256 kilobyte per second sound on iOS and Android.

• 29:51Speaker 04

  Somewhere Ellis is shaking his fist at the sky.

• 29:54David Imel?

  Why? Wouldn't he like that?

• 29:56Speaker 04

  I don't know. We'll find out.

• 29:57David Imel?

  Okay. Um, also, jump ahead, which is this awesome feature where if it notices that most people sort of skip to a different part of the video, generally that's to avoid sponsors.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  It's one of the most useful features.

• 30:10David Imel?

  It's pretty awesome.

• 30:11Speaker 01

  I gotta say.

• 30:11David Imel?

  Yeah. It's basically...

• 30:13Speaker 01

  Almost every time I see the jump ahead button on YouTube and I click it, it's right at the end of the ad.

• 30:18David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 30:19Speaker 01

  It's really good.

• 30:19Speaker 04

  Except for this podcast.

• 30:21David Imel?

  Obviously.

• 30:22Speaker 04

  It's natural.

• 30:22David Imel?

  Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, I don't know why they're making these limited runs or why they didn't have that on web in the first place. Um, a lot of, these are all experiments, so...

• 30:34Andrew Manganelli?

  I would just assume on web, people don't double-tap the screen to move forward. They move the...

• 30:41Speaker 04

  The cursor.

• 30:41Andrew Manganelli?

  The timeline.

• 30:43Speaker 04

  Playhead.

• 30:44David Imel?

  Yeah, but the jump, but there's, the jump ahead thing is like a little thing that appears in the corner.

• 30:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, but I thought it only happens on mobile when you start skipping. Like if you skip and in the first 10 seconds, it realizes in the part everyone skips, then it does jump ahead unless you skip all the way.

• 30:58David Imel?

  I'll have to see how it works today.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  All right, well, we're gonna take a 1X speed break.

• 31:04Speaker 05

  We're gonna take.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  I don't want to talk in that slow. I'll take a quick break, but before we do, trivia time.

• 31:13Speaker 05

  Trivia. Trivia. Dude. Dude.

• 31:21Speaker 04

  All right, first question. Do you remember what the code name of the Pixel 4A was?

• 31:26David Imel?

  Not Shamu.

• 31:29Andrew Manganelli?

  That's the first thing I thought of.

• 31:30David Imel?

  Quite the opposite.

• 31:31Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what everyone thinks of.

• 31:32David Imel?

  That's the famous one.

• 31:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Iconic.

• 31:35David Imel?

  I remember some.

• 31:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 31:38David Imel?

  But I don't know about this one.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Code names are fun because companies don't usually talk about them.

• 31:44David Imel?

  Yeah, and usually they're not actually related to the product, except for Shamu that was related to the product.

• 31:49Speaker 04

  Project Muhan is related.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  Technically true, but it's like public, it's like being publicly.

• 31:53Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, they are.

• 31:55David Imel?

  Yeah, they called that project Infinity.

• 31:58Speaker 01

  Like an infinite canvas.

• 31:59David Imel?

  Even though we don't have an infinite canvas in the world.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  But it feels like one. Yeah, okay, that's a good question. Well, we'll think about that and the answers will be at the end like usual. We'll be right back.

• 32:22Speaker 00

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• 33:21Speaker 06

  Are you tired of hearing about business, tech and finance from the bros? We are the Tiger Sisters. A top business podcast with the Vox Media Podcast Network. Tiger Sisters releases every Monday and we decode money, power and love. And who doesn't love all those things? We are the internet's Wall Street and Silicon Valley big sisters. Tune in every Monday for late night sister talk meets boardroom strategy. Check out Tiger Sisters on YouTube, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Tiger fam.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  All right, so welcome back. Apple released a new product this week. It's an app. It's an iOS only app. Now, it's an iOS only app that you can invite Android friends to participate in the experience of. Whoops. But it is an iOS only app. And it is, in my opinion, the most Apple way that you could possibly do this. Yeah. It is an invites app. So those of you who are my age probably remember Facebook events where you'd have an event you wanted to invite a bunch of people to. And you have a bunch of Facebook friends. So what you do is you make a Facebook event and then you invite all of the Facebook friends to the event. So they all know when and where it is. This used to be huge. Right? That's, that's how people my age used to do this.

• 34:36Speaker 01

  If you were Andrew's age, you remember letters. Yeah.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  If you're younger, you probably use this app called Partiful, Partyful. Partyful. Which is a lot of the same thing. It's literally just for events, typically parties, sure. But you just invite anyone. From their phone number or their email address and then they get an invite.

• 34:55David Imel?

  But it's cool because you can send text blast in Partyful. So people can say they're going maybe or not going. And then you basically can send updates. So you're like, oh, we're moving to this location.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, and this has been true about Facebook events and about all the previous events things where it's like, you need to send a message to everyone who's there. There used to be a wall. Anyone who's invited could write on the wall and everyone gets a notification. If you change the time, you could, you know, everyone gets a notification blast. So Partyful is the newest hottest version of that. There's an app.

• 35:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, so I'd never heard of Partyful until yesterday when we, and I realized when I tried to figure out what Partyful was. It literally says that it is the Facebook events for hot people.

• 35:34David Imel?

  I don't know why it says that.

• 35:35Andrew Manganelli?

  That is weird. But I realized why I'd never heard of it.

• 35:37David Imel?

  That is true though.

• 35:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're not hot enough, so that's fine.

• 35:40David Imel?

  I literally, just as we're recording this podcast, got a Partyful invite and the person was hot.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  That means you're hot. Then you're hot now.

• 35:47David Imel?

  Oh, shoot.

• 35:48Andrew Manganelli?

  By extension.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  And we haven't gotten one, so anyway. So, so that's what's, you know, that's the current state of the landscape. So Apple comes along and they're like, you know what? We're a services company. We could make an app here. They make the most Apple possible version of this.

• 36:01David Imel?

  Yep.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Which is, the app is iOS only, iPhone only.

• 36:05David Imel?

  Check.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  Anyone who has an iPhone gets a beautiful, glassy, well thought out experience. RSVP, you know, notifications, comments, all that fun stuff.

• 36:17Andrew Manganelli?

  You can add an Apple music playlist.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Apple music playlist.

• 36:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Just want to, an iPhone and iCloud plus in order to create an invite.

• 36:25David Imel?

  Well, to create an invite.

• 36:26Speaker 01

  To create an invite, yeah.

• 36:27David Imel?

  But you can accept one without iCloud plus.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you go to invite a bunch of people, everyone who has that app will have a great experience. But if you want to invite a friend with an Android phone.

• 36:40David Imel?

  Uh oh.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  I guess you can and they'll get like a web link or whatever and they'll be able to RSVP through the web link, but they probably can't add to the Apple, you know, music playlist or anything like that. And they won't get notifications probably as easily. They'll have to probably return to that invite link. There's just a few things that don't quite work as beautifully for the Android friends.

• 37:04Andrew Manganelli?

  We tested it yesterday because I'm on Android. Adam sent me an invite as a test.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:09Andrew Manganelli?

  It does bring up like a webpage. It's in your browser. The thing that's annoying right off the bat is you need an, an Apple ID to sign into it.

• 37:18David Imel?

  Wait, really?

• 37:19Andrew Manganelli?

  I needed to log in, or no, no, an Apple ID to RSVP.

• 37:22David Imel?

  Really?

• 37:23Andrew Manganelli?

  And I have an Apple ID, but I think there are plenty, maybe I'm missing something there, but when I said it, it said like login to RSVP and you had, there was an Apple ID sign in.

• 37:32David Imel?

  If you're an Android and Windows user, you just can't RSVP to these events.

• 37:36Speaker 04

  It's just like accessing stuff in iCloud. Like, you know, when you're not on a Windows computer, I mean, when you're not on a Mac computer, you're on a Windows and you're trying to access your iCloud, you have to do it in the web and login through your iCloud that way.

• 37:46David Imel?

  Yeah, wow.

• 37:47Speaker 04

  Which is annoying.

• 37:47David Imel?

  That's wild. Yeah, they definitely put their ecosystem in the front here. You can add to a Apple Photos library and everyone can add to it live.

• 37:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Awesome.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  Works super well for your iPhone, friends.

• 38:00David Imel?

  Super well for your iPhone, friends.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Now, your Android friend took pictures at the event too, but I don't know, man.

• 38:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Don't want to see those, I guess.

• 38:08David Imel?

  There's the Apple Music playlist that people can add to.

• 38:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Also cool.

• 38:12David Imel?

  Also cool, but they have to, again, have Apple Music.

• 38:15Andrew Manganelli?

  That one's funny because there's plenty of iPhone users who don't have Apple Music.

• 38:19David Imel?

  Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. Yeah, it's just one of those things where they were like, somebody else is doing this thing that we technically could take control of because we own everyone.

• 38:32Speaker 04

  It's so social.

• 38:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:34Speaker 04

  It's a very social thing.

• 38:34Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it's even a step further of, we control everyone in our ecosystem and keeps them in there. And then this is one more thing that has that friction of your friends that don't have iPhones.

• 38:45David Imel?

  Yep.

• 38:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Let's jam it in their face.

• 38:47David Imel?

  Exactly.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Think about the FaceTime experience. They finally added FaceTime on the web, so you can invite Android users into your FaceTimes.

• 38:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  And it's like, okay, great, now we can all join a video call. My aunt has an Android phone, whoop de doo, she can join, but she can't start a FaceTime. And also, it's going to be in the web browser and probably won't have all of the same features and I doubt she's going to have the Memoji face. Like, there's going to be things that aren't quite as ideal.

• 39:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  But it technically still works.

• 39:15Andrew Manganelli?

  When did they launch that?

• 39:16David Imel?

  2021.

• 39:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Have you ever FaceTimed with an Android user in that?

• 39:21David Imel?

  Uh, once.

• 39:22Andrew Manganelli?

  I'd never have.

• 39:23David Imel?

  I tried it with my sister.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:25David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  Same reason there is green bubbles and blue bubbles.

• 39:28Andrew Manganelli?

  They can say it's there, but they don't expect anyone to use it.

• 39:30Speaker 01

  Exactly. And this is a very US thing. Like if in the US, this, this social peer pressure thing that happens with iPhones is so clear and so obvious, and it's so obvious what they're doing here. And many other countries are like, well, I guess I just won't use that dumb app then. It's pretty stupid. So this is, yeah, not multi-platform.

• 39:53David Imel?

  Other features it has, you can use Apple Maps to go directly to the party. I believe you can add it to your Apple Calendar. And then also, it plugs into Image Playground, which I find Image Playground generally really stupid. However, people do put pretty dumb photos as their partyful photos. So I could see this being relatively handy.

• 40:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Did you see the picture that I added to this event?

• 40:19David Imel?

  No, because I didn't join the one that you invited me to.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  The podcast. You didn't join?

• 40:22Andrew Manganelli?

  No, he doesn't like me.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Oh, you're not invited to the pod?

• 40:24David Imel?

  I'm sorry. No, I got invited. I just did an RSVP.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  Oh, so, yeah. You probably have to go home.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  Adam made a podcast invite, a podcast event on the invites app. And the AI-generated photo is a couple of microphones.

• 40:42David Imel?

  Three microphones.

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Don't pay any attention to how the cables seem to disappear into thin air. And slightly out of focus ones are a little bit convoluted with the buttons. They don't really mean anything. It's fine.

• 40:52Andrew Manganelli?

  It's working great.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  It doesn't seem to want to do anything. It's just spinning in circles.

• 40:55David Imel?

  It gets the idea across.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I agree with you. Image Playground's kind of weird, but, and even with some past Samsung phones, they've done this where it's like the image generation for an invite, I could see that being like, kind of nice. It's like, let's get a general vibe out here that doesn't need to be super specific.

• 41:13Speaker 01

  And I will say, as the person making the invite, it was helpful because like podcast episode, what do we, what do you put for that? They had a bunch of balloons. They had like all these other things, but I was just like, ah, whip me up some, some microphone.

• 41:25David Imel?

  It's, the equivalent of this is like, OpenAI is partyful and Gemini is Apple invites. Because OpenAI doesn't have access. Access to things like your Gmail or your calendar or any of this stuff. And it's like, it works on any platform and it's great. It works for everything. But then Google swoops in and is like, but we can plug in our ecosystem. And it's effectively the same thing. And I think you should just keep using Partyfull because stop. You just don't want to isolate anybody and we need to keep these platforms open. And Partyfull doesn't even have ads.

• 42:01Speaker 04

  Good luck.

• 42:02Andrew Manganelli?

  I was gonna say, where's the Google version of this that does put in calendar?

• 42:06David Imel?

  Google Meet.

• 42:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Maps.

• 42:10Andrew Manganelli?

  I guess it does have Google Music, but like, Google could do all of this and I'm sure most iPhone users have a Gmail account.

• 42:17David Imel?

  That's a good point.

• 42:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 42:18Speaker 01

  But would they make it Android only?

• 42:20Andrew Manganelli?

  No.

• 42:20David Imel?

  No.

• 42:21Andrew Manganelli?

  No way. I don't know what any of them are trying to do anymore.

• 42:23David Imel?

  You know what? They make it Pixel only for six months. And then it would be available.

• 42:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Launches with the S26 Ultra.

• 42:29David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  It's enabled by the Tensor G4.

• 42:32David Imel?

  And then it would be available on Google Photos. For everybody.

• 42:38Andrew Manganelli?

  The new feature pipeline.

• 42:40David Imel?

  Okay. Anyway, if you like this feature, you should let us know. If you hate it like me, you should let us know. And.

• 42:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I love it.

• 42:47David Imel?

  Wow. You don't even have an iPhone.

• 42:49Andrew Manganelli?

  I love it because it gives me one more plausible reason to accidentally ignore an invite that I don't want to go to. And be like, oh, sorry, I'm on Android. It just didn't really come through. Correct. Sorry, I missed that.

• 43:01David Imel?

  Bug or a feature?

• 43:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 43:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Adam's like, I'm going back to.

• 43:07Speaker 04

  That is the greatest excuse ever. That and a child, but I'm not ready for having a baby yet, so.

• 43:12David Imel?

  Sorry, my baby can't go. Just get a, you have a dog. A dog is a great excuse.

• 43:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, but people don't accept it as much as a baby.

• 43:19Andrew Manganelli?

  What?

• 43:20Speaker 04

  I could be like, oh, I can't leave the dog at home. They're like, okay, so go home early. I could be like, no, I'm not going at all. I have a baby. And everyone's like, okay, I understand.

• 43:26David Imel?

  I say, okay, so go home early.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Babies is fine.

• 43:31David Imel?

  Yeah. What did they do in the Middle Ages, Adam? People still went to parties, okay?

• 43:35Speaker 04

  Did they?

• 43:36Speaker 01

  And the babies were all fine. All of them.

• 43:38Speaker 04

  Famously.

• 43:39David Imel?

  Famously.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  Famously. Okay, yeah, no, there's another app, though, or at least something that I haven't heard of, but I think is an app that Adam's gonna talk about.

• 43:46Speaker 04

  It is an app.

• 43:47Andrew Manganelli?

  I think you might like it, honestly.

• 43:48David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 43:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 43:49Speaker 04

  It's called Tapestry. It is a new app that combines a lot of the things that I do on the internet into one timeline.

• 43:57David Imel?

  I'm interested.

• 43:58Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 43:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you know how I know Mark is gonna like this? The two people I've seen talk about it are Adam and David Pierce.

• 44:04Speaker 04

  The third trisecta is the only person missing.

• 44:07David Imel?

  It's a Fediverse reader, by the way.

• 44:09Speaker 04

  Basically, yeah.

• 44:11David Imel?

  It's like Surf. We talked about Surf a few weeks ago.

• 44:12Speaker 04

  It's like Surf, but Surf, when you open it up, the homepage is more like a magazine. It's like a pretty kind of, like, it's very inspired by Flipboard. This is just, it launches you straight into a timeline, like a feed.

• 44:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 44:23Speaker 04

  So you could just start scrolling and everything is color coordinated. So like, if you plug in your Mastodon account, it'll be purple. If you plug in your Blue Sky account, it'll be blue. You can add in-

• 44:32David Imel?

  RSS feeds and YouTube channels.

• 44:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, regular RSS feeds. The YouTube channel one is low-key my favorite feature of this, which I-

• 44:38David Imel?

  Cause YouTube is RSS.

• 44:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's RSS. And I don't think it's super unique to this app.

• 44:42David Imel?

  It's not. Surf has it too.

• 44:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, you could just, well, I mean, just RSS feeds in general. You could just plug in a YouTube channel or whatever. But it made me realize how little I use my subscriptions box in YouTube. Because for the longest, I just go and I, like, the algorithm's pretty good now at, like, giving me something interesting that I wanna watch right on the homepage. So now, I can actually just add this into the thing that I'm using every day anyway. I'm always on these, like, social media apps scrolling, wasting my life. So, I could just put a channel that I actively wanna keep up with in there, and it'll pop up.

• 45:15Andrew Manganelli?

  This could, you can put Twitter in this, right?

• 45:17David Imel?

  No.

• 45:17Speaker 04

  I don't know. I don't use Twitter.

• 45:18David Imel?

  No, you can only think, put things that have open protocols.

• 45:21Speaker 04

  What's Twitter?

• 45:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, really?

• 45:22David Imel?

  Yeah. So, yeah, it has Mastodon, blogs that are open via Activity Pub or RSS or whatever.

• 45:30Andrew Manganelli?

  I was gonna say, I wanna put, like, the couple Twitter beat writers in the NHL that haven't moved to Blue Sky yet. Throw them on that, so I don't have to actually-

• 45:39David Imel?

  No.

• 45:39Andrew Manganelli?

  You would have to use their-

• 45:40Speaker 04

  You'd have to use their API, which they-

• 45:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 45:42Speaker 04

  Shook it.

• 45:43David Imel?

  I mean, this won't be able to work with Threads either, I imagine.

• 45:46Speaker 04

  Not yet, no.

• 45:47David Imel?

  Yeah, cause Threads hasn't opened.

• 45:48Andrew Manganelli?

  If Threads ever decides to federate-

• 45:51David Imel?

  They won't.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  They said they will, they won't.

• 45:54Speaker 04

  David, David, stop putting that into the universe. They will federate.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Whenever.

• 45:58Speaker 04

  Anyway, this app, I've been using it since 24 hours ago-ish.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  Yesterday.

• 46:05Speaker 04

  Yeah, yesterday.

• 46:07Speaker 04

  It's actually like, I really enjoy it for two main reasons. One, the YouTube thing, like I said, you could just throw it in and then anytime a YouTuber that I care about publishes a video, it pops up in my feed like in real time. The second thing is because it's more of a reader type situation and I have my Blue Sky plugged in, I can't really interact with people, which I guess some people would see that as a con. You would have to like, you click it and it opens up the Blue Sky app and then you can like interact with them or whatever. But I like the fact that it's just like a one-way thing. Like I'm just keeping up, making sure that I know what's happening.

• 46:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:41Speaker 04

  And I'm not actually like going back and forth with people or anything like that. Like for that, I just open up the Blue Sky app and do that dedicated over there.

• 46:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I ask, if you like, if you're on The Verge or 9 to 5 Google or something, can you get posts from one specific author?

• 46:57Speaker 04

  Oh, I guess if. I believe so. If they have RSS feed turned on, it depends on the site, I guess.

• 47:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 47:03Speaker 04

  Cause I was even wondering like Verge was popping up on here, but I was wondering about the paywall.

• 47:08Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what I do.

• 47:08Speaker 04

  So I was like, I don't know how that would work.

• 47:10Andrew Manganelli?

  This would most likely just show like the thumbnail, well, the title and the header image, right? And then you would go into it and do it. But that'd still be good, cause if I went to like 9 to 5 Google and been like, I just want to see what Ben Shun's writing about and like have his stuff pop up, cause The Verge posts so much. Or like any of those blogs post a lot, but if there's someone specific you're following.

• 47:32Speaker 04

  Well, that was, going back to my YouTube example, my subscriptions box, I was thinking about the reason why I don't use it is because it is just plastered with IGN videos. And I subscribe to IGN, I like their videos, they do make great content, but there's so many of them that it kind of, and NBA too, NBA is another one. They will post like a million videos. So I just lose everything.

• 47:53Speaker 01

  I gotta unsubscribe from the big ones. I unsubscribe from most of the channels that like mass post like that.

• 47:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Because the homepage is so good at just showing me the ones that I would have watched.

• 48:02David Imel?

  Also, I don't think that we even mentioned that the name of this app is called Tapestry. I did, but yeah.

• 48:07Speaker 04

  You said that?

• 48:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:08Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 48:09David Imel?

  It is not a totally original.

• 48:11Andrew Manganelli?

  It's made by the person or the app company that made Twitterific.

• 48:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, Twitterific, the client.

• 48:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 48:16Speaker 04

  So they know what they're doing.

• 48:17David Imel?

  Icon Factory is the name of the company.

• 48:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:19David Imel?

  So.

• 48:20Speaker 04

  Good stuff.

• 48:20David Imel?

  Quite cool.

• 48:21Speaker 04

  I like it.

• 48:22David Imel?

  These readers are cool and more people should federate anyway.

• 48:26Speaker 04

  I guess this was kind of like your Fediverse corner.

• 48:29David Imel?

  Shoot. You took over my Fediverse corner. There's only room for one of us in the Fediverse corner. All right.

• 48:36Andrew Manganelli?

  One other thing to talk about, after a leaked memo from Meta, or I don't know if I would call it a memo, or like Meta has a private forum apparently, and this was a post in the forum. Bosworth, Andrew Bosworth?

• 48:49David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 48:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Andrew Bosworth.

• 48:50Speaker 04

  How'd you forget Andrew?

• 48:51Andrew Manganelli?

  I know, man. I don't know. It's a long day.

• 48:54David Imel?

  Andrew, you're such an A.

• 48:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Wrote a pretty long post about why 2025 might be the make or break year for the Metaverse. I thought it was kind of interesting because of how.

• 49:06Speaker 04

  How deep into the Metaverse we are, sort of? I completely misread this title in the doc, and this whole time I thought it was about the Fediverse. So I was ready for David to go off. And now I'm just realizing just now it's the Metaverse.

• 49:19Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm gonna read, I have a couple of questions about this that I want to pose to you guys, and I'm gonna read the opening paragraph of his post.

• 49:26David Imel?

  I'm ready.

• 49:27Andrew Manganelli?

  So it says, 2025, the year of greatness. Next year is going to be the most critical year in my eight years at Reality Labs. We have the best portfolio of products we've ever had in the market and are pushing our advantage by launching half a dozen more AI-powered wearables. We need to drive sales, retention, and engagement across the board, but especially in MR.

• 49:44David Imel?

  Mixed reality.

• 49:44Andrew Manganelli?

  And Horizon Worlds on mobile absolutely has to break out for long-term plans to have a chance. If you don't feel the weight of history on you, then you aren't paying attention. This year likely determines whether this entire effort will go down as the work of visionaries or legendary misadventure. First of all, bars.

• 50:01David Imel?

  Bars.

• 50:02Andrew Manganelli?

  At the end there.

• 50:03David Imel?

  Andrew Barzouris.

• 50:06David Imel?

  Nice. Dang.

• 50:07Andrew Manganelli?

  But I guess he goes on then to talk more about like how a pivotal, how much of a pivotal moment this is, how people should be doing the best work of their careers this year, and then also how small teams can also succeed, which sounds like, hey, guys, I know we laid off a bunch of you, but you still can pull this off for us. And it just felt weird, and I guess my question is, we see Meta so recently really focusing on this like AR, VR, XR, whatever you want to call it, they're super deep into Quest. We saw the glasses not too long ago that they feel like they're kind of ahead of the curve on. When he says this is make or break for the Metaverse, what are we talking about?

• 50:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Are we talking about XR in general? Are we talking about the physical like Meta worlds? Horizon worlds would be it for them? Like the virtual world? Or are we talking about like goggles? Because maybe they're moving more towards glasses, which is way more focused on augmented reality and like your own world with things on it. So I was interested in this. It feels like when you just read the title, it's like Meta's freaking out about anything XR related, but I'm starting to wonder if it's more about like the creepy Mark Zuckerberg.

• 51:23David Imel?

  He's talking about this.

• 51:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, Metaverse.

• 51:25David Imel?

  He's talking about Mark Zuckerberg in front of the Eiffel Tower.

• 51:28Speaker 01

  No, I think it's a

• 51:29Andrew Manganelli?

  The legless.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  It's kind of a combination of some of those things. I feel, so we have seen some advancements lately in the world of mixed reality. We just showed Samsung's headset, the Project Muhan, which is, again, this weird thing where a bunch of companies feel the need to show us products before they come out, or that in some cases aren't even coming out, just to flex that they are working on this, it's coming soon. And I think that this is along the lines of believing that they will finally ship something that feels like it's You know, a usable, real pair of AR glasses. Like, the Snapchat spectacles are a developer kit, essentially, right? The Meta glasses that they showed us, the glasses glasses- Orion.

• 52:12Speaker 01

  Orion are not a real product, but they showed them off just to, you know, get them in front of people, "Look, we're doing this." Project Muhan, Samsung, prototyp-y, coming later this year. Again, there's a bunch of movement towards a bunch of companies all poised to ship something they just haven't yet.

• 52:32Andrew Manganelli?

  I think it's interesting you go straight to Orion glasses, though, because to me, this feels like Orion is their focus, but like, the rest of Reality Labs and the Horizon Worlds-esque VR-esque stuff is like, "This is our last year to prove that this might be a thing." Because Meta before we saw Orion-

• 52:52Speaker 01

  Before AI.

• 52:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Was super focused on, like, the digital world that you would be in and how it's so much better to work in this digital world.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:59Andrew Manganelli?

  And how it's better to, like, do all these different things. It's how you're never alone, you always have the option to be with people and in this cool environment. And I feel like this post, to me, feels more along the lines of like, "Hey, all of this stuff that we've been working on for a while, we may have just, we may just totally pivot at the end of 2025 and kill the rest of the Metaverse as a, like, place."

• 53:23Speaker 01

  I think the Metaverse is more of an umbrella term.

• 53:25Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know.

• 53:26Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 53:26Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't see Orion glasses as the Metaverse.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  You don't? Yeah. But it is like, part of the mixed reality- Yeah. It's like XR. The way I see it, they went all in on the Metaverse, that's why they changed their name to Meta. And then, when AI happened the year after, they were like, "Oh." I hadn't thought of that. Maybe that was, yeah.

• 53:48Andrew Manganelli?

  That, well, no, but I hadn't thought of, like, they literally changed their name to Meta, and now it's like, "Well, we might give up on the Metaverse." Are they gonna change their name again?

• 53:56Speaker 01

  Well, that's why you're saying this year will determine if this entire effort, AKA naming our company Meta and tripling down, quadrupling down on this VR, AR, metaverse thing, will go down as the work of visionaries, because they were early to doing this and they really committed to it, or legendary misadventure. The world moved on without them and people didn't care about it.

• 54:16David Imel?

  Well, what they were trying to do before was make the next browser or the next Google. Like, they wanted to be the next platform.

• 54:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Like internet, yeah.

• 54:23David Imel?

  So Mark was like, "Oh, we can quadruple down on being the next version of the internet, and then we'll own the platform and we own the OS that we can license out and all of this stuff." And I don't think anybody has used Horizon Worlds or cares about it. Like, it really feels like they never fleshed that out to a level that people actually gave.

• 54:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you not remember when we played the Cheeto's Halloween world?

• 54:46David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 54:47Andrew Manganelli?

  That was revolutionary.

• 54:49David Imel?

  Right.

• 54:50Andrew Manganelli?

  You don't remember? There was like, in Horizon Worlds...

• 54:54David Imel?

  Chester the Cheeto.

• 54:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Chester the Cheeto, like haunted house world.

• 54:58David Imel?

  Because remember for the like eight months where every company was like, "We have a metaverse division now," and people were buying real estate in the metaverse?

• 55:06Speaker 01

  Chief Metaverse Officer.

• 55:07David Imel?

  Yeah. Disney had a Chief Metaverse Officer and then they got rid of that role like eight months later.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  I think that was back when Meta went around convincing everyone that they were going to be the company that made the metaverse a thing.

• 55:19David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 55:20Speaker 01

  And now it's not so clear that Meta's the only one who will have a stake in this new platform that we're...

• 55:27David Imel?

  But I feel like the metaverse as a platform, Meta originally foresaw as mostly a digital world. Whereas now, it feels like everyone's like, "Oh, AI is enabling all of these other things that are just XR experiences."

• 55:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 55:43David Imel?

  And so they're pivoting hard to mostly XR stuff, because like, the Ray-Bans are actually a hit. Like, the Ray-Bans are actually selling units. Whereas the Quest, everyone knows what the Quest's for, it's for VR gaming. So I think they're basically like, "If we cannot make our original 2020 metaverse version of what we were going to do happen this year, we basically need to pivot the entire company towards XR."

• 56:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I think even the Quest is starting, like, they started making way better pass-through with it when they killed the, uh, the Quest Pro. They just were like, "Oh, cheaper version, let's do a lot of the pass-through stuff, a lot of the functionality in your own world kind of things." So even that, the thing that was their, like, money maker metaverse thing is even pivoting to this.

• 56:26David Imel?

  And they are doing that to, they originally were doing that to compete with the Vision Pro, but now they're like, "Oh, it just turns out that people want this more than they want to be fully encased in a virtual world."

• 56:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Did they destroy themselves by releasing a hit with the Meta Ray-Bans?

• 56:41David Imel?

  Hmm, no, I think it just became more clear what people actually want.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think they, it's one of those things where nobody knows what they want until they try it and they like it. So like, Meta is trying a bunch of different things and they have the Meta Ray-Bans and they have the Quest and they're gonna make glasses and they're just doing a bunch of different versions of the thing. And one of them will be a hit, hopefully.

• 57:04David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 57:05Andrew Manganelli?

  But enough of a hit to like justify this crazy investment that they've been doing?

• 57:10Speaker 01

  They want it to be. I mean, they want it to be the thing that everyone, like, they, every company wants the next iPhone, which is like probably pretty unrealistic, but every company is thinking that way. Like, we want to be the ones that pioneer the next big thing.

• 57:23David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  And it will be worth pivoting our whole company because we are now the ones that control and have made this thing that we can profit from.

• 57:31David Imel?

  There's a strong irony where Meta is constantly talking about making like Llama open source and how like open source software makes everything better, but yet they won't open up the Threads API.

• 57:43David Imel?

  So you know, when it, when it benefits you, I guess.

• 57:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Waveform's been around long enough to watch Facebook change its name and potentially regret changing its name.

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Bang.

• 57:53David Imel?

  Meta is still kind of a banger name, though.

• 57:57David Imel?

  Okay.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  Banger?

• 57:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Banger doesn't work.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  Could be a banger, could be legendary misadventure.

• 58:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Legendary misadventure is an awesome way of saying.

• 58:08David Imel?

  That's a band name.

• 58:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Wow, we spend way too much money on this. And you're all getting fired.

• 58:13David Imel?

  He's like, we are either the, the people who have charted history, or we are losers, but we're gonna say that in a much nicer way. Legendary misadventure.

• 58:24Speaker 04

  What would a success look like for them?

• 58:26Andrew Manganelli?

  We would all be in, people would be watching waveform inside the metaverse right now.

• 58:30Speaker 04

  Like, that's such a hard.

• 58:32Speaker 01

  Hit products.

• 58:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Hit products or experiences that are sort of familiar to all.

• 58:39David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 58:40Speaker 01

  Like, success for Android was like a whole bunch of people using Android phones, and now Google can build inside of Android and everyone gets these things. Hit for Apple with the iPhone was pretty obvious, like huge market share takeover in a bunch of regions and like, now they're a services company building on top of the iPhone, like it's this thing that they control, it's a platform for them. Success for Meta is hit product that they can then build a bunch of things on top of slash around that they control.

• 59:10Speaker 04

  So is the product the headset or the Horizon Worlds?

• 59:13Andrew Manganelli?

  I think what we're talking about here is they really, I really think they thought the product was Horizon Worlds. What, slash the metaverse, slash the digital worlds you kind of live in.

• 59:25Speaker 01

  You gotta buy a product to access that.

• 59:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, but I think there's more money in that being the default.

• 59:32Speaker 04

  Like, they want it to be the Android, basically.

• 59:33Andrew Manganelli?

  I think they wanted it to be the new internet, pretty much.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, the new Android.

• 59:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Where you spend all your time.

• 59:39David Imel?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  But now Android XR.

• 59:41David Imel?

  Your new browser. Sure.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  Literally Android.

• 59:45David Imel?

  Yeah, I still don't really know what it's for.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  It's, uh, it's for all the headsets that aren't running Metas or Apple's OSs.

• 59:54David Imel?

  Okay, but here's a question. When have you ever seen someone use a headset? And Alice does not count.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  On my flight back from San Antonio on Sunday, I sat behind someone who was wearing a Vision Pro, who was gesturing wildly for two hours on a flight.

• 1:00:10David Imel?

  Interesting. I've never seen that before.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  That's the first time I've seen it. But it's a thing.

• 1:00:15David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  And I imagine that $3,000 headset will not be seen in the public very often, but way more of the cheaper $200, $300, $400, $500 headsets will start to show up over the next couple of years.

• 1:00:27David Imel?

  Hmm.

• 1:00:28Speaker 01

  And if you're a company like Google or Meta and you know that that's true, and you know that this hardware is coming down in price, and here comes Project Muhan, and then there's gonna be a bunch of other stuff, you wanna be the ones that are on as many of these headsets as possible.

• 1:00:41David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:41Speaker 01

  So...

• 1:00:42David Imel?

  I just, we've been on this ride so many times. Like, back in 2016, I was a VR reporter specifically. And I just remember, like, BMW was like, "Oh, we are using HTC Vibes to model the inside of our cars." And I'm pretty sure they weren't.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:00David Imel?

  And that they had given one engineer a Vive and said, "Try this", so that they could make a press release alongside HTC to make it seem like people cared about VR.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:09David Imel?

  And I just, this is like the fourth time that we've had this like VR... Actually, it's probably more than the fourth time.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think, and I resonate hard with that. The same thing, exact thing happened with me. I would visit Lucid, and they were like, "Here, put this headset on. You see, we designed the cars with the headsets." I'm like, "No, you didn't."

• 1:01:24David Imel?

  No, you didn't. You did not.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  But every company wants to seem,

• 1:01:28David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  one, ahead of the curve or early to stuff.

• 1:01:31David Imel?

  Totally.

• 1:01:31Speaker 01

  So if this seems like it might be the future, they'll just proclaim that this is what we're doing.

• 1:01:35David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  And, two, if you are wrong, then it's just legendary misadventure. You just move on.

• 1:01:43David Imel?

  I'm gonna call every mistake I've ever made.

• 1:01:46Speaker 01

  That's the title of this podcast. Waveform, episode 272, "Our Legendary Misadventure."

• 1:01:50David Imel?

  Anytime I make a mistake, I'm gonna like, miss an exit and be like, "We're going on a legendary misadventure."

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  It does sound like a choose-your-own-adventure book, that they just picked the wrong task.

• 1:02:01David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  That sounds like you're blazing past eggs. "No, we'll be good, we'll be good."

• 1:02:06David Imel?

  Banger. Alright.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:08David Imel?

  Alright.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  Well, we got a little more to talk about, but before we do that, we should take one more quick break.

• 1:02:12David Imel?

  But before that...

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  Trivia time.

• 1:02:18Speaker 04

  So, Apple invites is for iCloud Plus subscribers? Like, you can only create one if you're an iCloud Plus subscriber, correct?

• 1:02:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:28Speaker 04

  Interesting. What year did Apple announce iCloud?

• 1:02:32David Imel?

  I don't know. iCloud at all?

• 1:02:34Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:02:37David Imel?

  When did clouds start forming?

• 1:02:39Speaker 04

  When Indeed, with the precipitation.

• 1:02:42David Imel?

  When did Apple become a service?

• 1:02:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Back when the atmosphere was invented.

• 1:02:47Speaker 04

  Remember when?

• 1:02:47Andrew Manganelli?

  When Steve Jobs invented the atmosphere?

• 1:02:51David Imel?

  Remember when we first started having things in the cloud? And people would just be like, "Oh, it's in the cloud." And everyone was like, "Whoa."

• 1:02:57Andrew Manganelli?

  There was like a... They would always like, kind of look up.

• 1:03:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  Everybody knows you can't have clouds without air. So, think about when the air came out.

• 1:03:09David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:03:09Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 1:03:09David Imel?

  Which air?

• 1:03:10Andrew Manganelli?

  Five billion years.

• 1:03:11David Imel?

  The MacBook Air? I was there when it was unveiled.

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  We'll think about this one. We'll think about this one. We'll be right back.

• 1:03:30Speaker 01

  Support for the show comes from Jira by Atlassian. So, AI is only as useful as the context it has to work from. But when that context is scattered across tools, like threads and DMs, that means your team and your AI agents end up flying kind of blind. That's the problem Jira solves. What's the gold tied to your project? What got decided last week in Slack? Atlassian's teamwork graph pulls all of these pieces together from Jira, Confluence, Slack, GitHub, and more. So, nothing falls through the cracks. With Jira, you can actually share that context with the AI agents you already use, like Claude, Cursor, and GitHub Copilot. Assign them work directly or connect your agents through MCP. Spend less time digging through endless links and DMs, less time chasing down what got decided and by who, and more time actually shipping. Learn more at jira.com.

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• 1:05:18Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, welcome back. I want to present you guys with a rant slash take slash I'm probably wrong. And recency bias has frustrated me, but I'm going to go on a rant anyways. And you can tell me how wrong I am.

• 1:05:30David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  Love it.

• 1:05:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, so I'm going to open it up with a comment. I think.

• 1:05:35David Imel?

  Therefore.

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  It's like you're presenting an argument to Congress.

• 1:05:37Andrew Manganelli?

  In the state of our current technology in the year 2025, it is harder to watch television than it was 15 years ago.

• 1:05:46David Imel?

  Counterpoint.

• 1:05:47Speaker 01

  15 years ago.

• 1:05:48David Imel?

  Counterpoint.

• 1:05:49Andrew Manganelli?

  15-ish years ago.

• 1:05:50David Imel?

  I'm stealing this counterpoint directly from David Pearce because he had this exact point on the Vergecast.

• 1:05:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry.

• 1:05:57David Imel?

  Oh, yeah. Okay. Um, okay, so it's just cable again.

• 1:06:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 1:06:04David Imel?

  Which is annoying because we, we entered this state where it wasn't cable again. And you could watch things on like a couple of platforms. It was awesome. And now there's so many platforms that it's like, it's basically cable then. But it is easier to watch because you can now watch it on more things. Like you used to have it, you used to have, have to have like a satellite dish to be able to watch certain channels.

• 1:06:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I agree. I'm, I think I'm most likely going to be wrong about this, but I think the vast majority of different things has created also this weird competition inside of where everything gets posted that it's also caused issues. So I'm, I'm going to. Tell my story. Okay. Very specific. In the greater metro area, we have a sports channel that hosts four different sports teams. It's called MSG Networks. It hosts the Devils, the Islanders, the Rangers, and the Knicks. It's here, it's the guy. There are cable packages around here. Oh, no. Generally, FiOS, Xfinity, Optimum. And you have to have a... The MSG Networks is feuding with like half of these cable networks. So... Oh, gosh.

• 1:07:15Andrew Manganelli?

  The only networks available in my home right now are Optimum and Xfinity. MSG Networks is not on either of those. So my options then start going to the internet. I think I have to be able to watch a sports team. There's so many different ways I can watch this now. You go on the internet and there's things called blackouts because they're local sports teams and they have these local things. So my options then started turning into ESPN Plus has hockey games, but since it's blacked out, I have to run through a VPN. Then ESPN is constantly trying to fix you being able to go through that. So my final decision, after the last three years of trying to do this, is I bought DirecTV Stream

• 1:07:56Andrew Manganelli?

  because DirecTV still has a partnership with MSG.

• 1:08:03Andrew Manganelli?

  But now that I'm streaming and not just a cable plugged in, I'm watching hockey overtime last night at what feels like 360p because for whatever reason, my 800 down internet is like, nah, this is a little tough to watch right now. Like, no matter what, when you're streaming, it feels like you have the opportunity of buffering or low quality footage. Right, even though our internet's fast. Yeah, and in live sports or anything live, that's really annoying. Yeah. I can't just pause and let it buffer. I'm trying to watch something live. So I'm just so frustrated at the point that I used to just be able to like plug my TV. Like, my TV just had a cable, a coax cable plugged into it, and I watched live sports because everyone just carried live sports, pretty much.

• 1:08:46Andrew Manganelli?

  And now cable is like this insane thing of like, even if you have cable and has like the, like, VODs, that half the time is like, oh, in order to watch that, you have to go log into Peacock now. Or like, you have to, that's on Paramount Plus. We have all these different streaming things. Everything is so segmented. And the fact that there's all those different segments, now those companies are like making deals with everyone and not having to do... MSG just reported that their... Possibly going bankrupt soon and they're still not agreeing to terms with Xfinity and Optimum to give people their packages. So like, they're literally dying and still not, I have no idea.

• 1:09:29David Imel?

  Just wow.

• 1:09:30Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so frustrating and I think whether I could watch it on my phone or my iPad or whatever, I still think ultimately it's harder to watch.

• 1:09:37David Imel?

  I think that's a good take and I think you're right and I rescind my opinion.

• 1:09:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, wait, which side was David Pearson?

• 1:09:43David Imel?

  He was basically saying, "It's very annoying."

• 1:09:46Andrew Manganelli?

  It's more convenient now, but it's harder.

• 1:09:47David Imel?

  His guest was saying, "It is, it is easier to watch it in more places because you can be like at a friend's house and as long as they have internet, yes, you still have to have the like right cable bundle, but the cable is now not a cable. It is now a platform." So it's easier to do in that sense, but I agree with you that it feels like the platforms that are carrying certain types of content are changing way more frequently. There's having all these deals happen behind closed doors. And it's like even shows that you're like used to watching like, "Oh, it was on Netflix yesterday, but now it's on Hulu."

• 1:10:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Or Netflix gets like the exclusive rights to stream like a football game and then Netflix doesn't know how to stream anything and that goes down. Or Amazon Prime now has like MLB on Thursdays or whatever. It's impossible to just watch the couple of sports games you want.

• 1:10:39David Imel?

  It's like you need to make like a 40-step flowchart, but that flowchart needs to change every three days.

• 1:10:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:45David Imel?

  Yeah, it's classic fragmentation. It would be nice if you could just have one place to watch everything, but... That's a monopoly. Yeah, it's fragmented. It's fragmented across a bunch of different services and sports is a perfect example for that. I tend to agree. I happen to be able to get the channels that I need to watch, the teams that I want to watch. I have Verizon FiOS and I don't watch that many MSG games, but whenever I watch a team, it's typically on some channel. So, yeah, that is, that is, I think that's fair. There's a funny meme that's like, "Oh, I can't watch that. I don't have this thing." And then the response is like, "What do you mean, man? It's literally on FUBI. You can watch it for the trial on Hubu."

• 1:11:26David Imel?

  If you, if you go to DDo.net, you can see it on TB.

• 1:11:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Accurate.

• 1:11:31David Imel?

  Yeah. Totally fair. I don't know where all these random streaming platforms popped up from.

• 1:11:36Andrew Manganelli?

  They all sound real. That could have been the trivia question of like, which of these are real streaming?

• 1:11:41David Imel?

  Because literally, it's like exclusively on Tubu. And you're like, when was Tubu a thing? Like, I've never heard of this.

• 1:11:47Speaker 04

  It's Tubi and FUBU.

• 1:11:49Speaker 01

  Super Bowl commercials, there's gonna be a couple more that you've never even heard of.

• 1:11:53Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm glad next episode we get to talk about it.

• 1:11:57Andrew Manganelli?

  So that's my rant. I hope some people in the tri-state area feel me on that one because this MSG stuff's been brutal.

• 1:12:03Speaker 04

  What happens if MSG goes out of business?

• 1:12:06David Imel?

  Is MSG Madison Square Garden?

• 1:12:07Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:12:07Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, but they have their own network as well.

• 1:12:10Speaker 04

  Who would get those rights?

• 1:12:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't know. I thought the thing I read was that like, Amazon might pick it up or something.

• 1:12:16David Imel?

  It's gonna be on FUBU.

• 1:12:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Freebie.

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  Easy. Just have a trial.

• 1:12:22Speaker 04

  I kinda hope they go out of business, they're saying, but.

• 1:12:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. It almost feels like it's at the point of like, do you remember when Linus is like, I pay for games and then I pirate them?

• 1:12:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Because I want to support it or whatever, not do that. But the pirating aspect is easier than the actual just doing the, what you're supposed to do.

• 1:12:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:41Andrew Manganelli?

  But yeah, alright.

• 1:12:42David Imel?

  Wow.

• 1:12:43Andrew Manganelli?

  That's how we'll wrap this episode up.

• 1:12:44David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:12:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Go Devils.

• 1:12:45David Imel?

  Yanis, or whatever. I don't know. Is that who got traded?

• 1:12:51Speaker 01

  Honestly, close enough. Close. It's basically like that, yeah.

• 1:12:56Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:12:56David Imel?

  Uh, I think it's time for trivia.

• 1:13:00Speaker 04

  Trivia. So, quick update on the score.

• 1:13:03David Imel?

  Okay.

• 1:13:04Speaker 04

  Marquez with five points. Andrew with two points. David in the lead with seven points. Yeah. Alright. First question, do you remember what the code name of the Pixel 4A was?

• 1:13:20David Imel?

  The 21st day of September.

• 1:13:22Speaker 04

  Do you remember?

• 1:13:27Speaker 04

  I wish we had code names. Can we have code names?

• 1:13:30David Imel?

  Tebow.

• 1:13:38David Imel?

  Shubu.

• 1:13:41Speaker 01

  Two- two-ub.

• 1:13:42David Imel?

  Two-ub.

• 1:13:43Speaker 04

  Why do they all, I've never...

• 1:13:46Andrew Manganelli?

  I can't even think of a code name because now all I'm thinking is like, "treebeer", "traba".

• 1:13:51David Imel?

  "Traba".

• 1:13:53Speaker 04

  Flip, man, read. What do you got?

• 1:13:56Speaker 04

  You wrote nothing?

• 1:13:57Andrew Manganelli?

  Nope.

• 1:13:59Speaker 01

  You asked, "do you remember what the code name was?" So I wrote, "no".

• 1:14:06Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 1:14:07Speaker 04

  Good one, though.

• 1:14:08David Imel?

  I put "sailfish"?

• 1:14:09Speaker 04

  Sailfish?

• 1:14:11Speaker 01

  Close.

• 1:14:12David Imel?

  It was "sunfish".

• 1:14:13Speaker 01

  "Sunfish".

• 1:14:14Speaker 04

  At first glance, I thought you wrote "sunfish", so I was ready to give you the point, and then you said "sailfish".

• 1:14:18David Imel?

  Yeah, Google Nexus's and Pixels have always been "fish".

• 1:14:22Andrew Manganelli?

  I kinda like the font you wrote in.

• 1:14:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, what is it?

• 1:14:24Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like tall. It's like short and tall at the same time.

• 1:14:27David Imel?

  It's David Sands.

• 1:14:29Speaker 04

  Sands, David.

• 1:14:31Speaker 01

  That's funny, because it kinda sounds like David's hands, which wrote the text. Anyway.

• 1:14:36Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:14:37David Imel?

  But if you type it, then it's not my hands.

• 1:14:40Speaker 04

  Interesting. Okay.

• 1:14:41David Imel?

  David's keys.

• 1:14:42Speaker 04

  What year did Apple announce iCloud?

• 1:14:47David Imel?

  And we're calling it iCloud.

• 1:14:49Speaker 04

  iCloud.

• 1:14:52David Imel?

  With iCloud,

• 1:14:55David Imel?

  you can get clouds in your eyes. I almost wrote "sailfish" again.

• 1:15:02Andrew Manganelli?

  You almost wrote the wrong answer.

• 1:15:03Speaker 04

  Looking for a year. I'll do closest delta.

• 1:15:08David Imel?

  Without going over?

• 1:15:09Andrew Manganelli?

  No.

• 1:15:10David Imel?

  No?

• 1:15:11Andrew Manganelli?

  Closest delta without going over.

• 1:15:14Speaker 04

  Flip, man, read. What do we got?

• 1:15:16David Imel?

  I wrote 2010.

• 1:15:17Speaker 04

  2010?

• 1:15:18Andrew Manganelli?

  I wrote 2008.

• 1:15:20Speaker 04

  2008, Marquez?

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  I wrote 2005.

• 1:15:22David Imel?

  Was it 2009?

• 1:15:23Speaker 04

  Five.

• 1:15:24David Imel?

  Was it 2009?

• 1:15:24Speaker 04

  The correct answer

• 1:15:27Speaker 04

  was 2011. David gets the point.

• 1:15:31David Imel?

  Let's go. Did they announce it with iOS 5? Well, because that's when they...

• 1:15:38David Imel?

  Because that's when they added iMessage got added in 2011. So I'm wondering if like iMessage only became possible because of iCloud.

• 1:15:46Andrew Manganelli?

  It was announced at dub dub 2011 during the keynote.

• 1:15:49David Imel?

  I'm pretty sure that's when.

• 1:15:50Andrew Manganelli?

  That was around the same time.

• 1:15:51David Imel?

  Yeah, that's when they announced iOS 5.

• 1:15:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, fun.

• 1:15:55Speaker 01

  Did they have cloud storage before iCloud, like under a different name?

• 1:15:59David Imel?

  Yeah, the dinosaurs had cloud storage. But they started them in actual clouds.

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  Oh, Mobile Me, dang it.

• 1:16:06David Imel?

  Mobile Me?

• 1:16:07Speaker 01

  Anyway, okay, that's it for this week's episode. Uh, let us know again if you have a Pixel 4A. We're really curious. We really want to know.

• 1:16:16Andrew Manganelli?

  I want to know. Hope you're not listening on it.

• 1:16:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, hopefully you're not like actively charging it, but.

• 1:16:20David Imel?

  In your pocket.

• 1:16:20Speaker 01

  Thanks for, uh, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you very soon in the next one. Peace.

• 1:16:26David Imel?

  Goodbye.

• 1:16:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Wayform is produced by Adam Alina and Ellis Trovan. We're partners with Vox Media Podcast Network. And our track music was Vain Sil. And stick around because one day, all five of us will actually be here. Bingo.

• 1:16:53Speaker 01

  If the quarterback throws the ball.

• 1:16:56David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:57Speaker 01

  And it doesn't get caught and it gets, and it hits the ground.

• 1:17:01Andrew Manganelli?

  It just restarts, yeah.

• 1:17:03Speaker 01

  If the quarterback throws the ball and the other team catches it before it hits the ground.

• 1:17:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Interception.

• 1:17:10Speaker 01

  Interception.

• 1:17:10David Imel?

  Okay, yeah, I knew that one.

• 1:17:12Speaker 01

  If somebody who's not the quarterback starts running and drops the ball.

• 1:17:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Even the quarterback running, that's what he did right there.

• 1:17:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, if somebody drops the ball, then the other team.

• 1:17:23David Imel?

  Can pick it up.

• 1:17:23Speaker 01

  Can pick it up.

• 1:17:24David Imel?

  Oh.

• 1:17:25Speaker 01

  Fumble, recovery. Can go run.

• 1:17:28David Imel?

  Interesting.

• 1:17:29Speaker 06

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