MURDERED: Dana Ireland

On Christmas Eve in 1991, Dana Ireland is found tucked away in a secluded, hard to get to area of the Hawaiian subdivision Vacationland, barely clinging to life. When she finally arrives at a Hilo hospital, the damage is too severe and they declare Dana dead at 12:25am on Christmas morning.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ashley Flowers?

  When you're out in nature, you learn to trust your instincts. You pay attention to the trail, your surroundings, and you stay alert to protect yourself from harm. But what if the biggest threat isn't the environment at all? On Park Predators, host Delia Diambra explores true crime cases that happen in national parks and remote wildernesses, the places we usually think of as safe and peaceful. Each episode reveals what happened and how much more there is beneath the surface. Listen to Park Predators now, wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, crime junkies. It is Ashley Flowers here, and I am popping in to share something new with you that actually stemmed from something that is a bit of a throwback. I think all of you know by now that Britt and I are on the road for Crime Junkie Life Rule

• 0:45Ashley Flowers?

  Number 10 Tour. It has been a complete blast, a wonderful seeing all of you who've come out to the stops we've made so far. I can't wait to see more of you soon. But this thing today, what I'm about to tell you, this actually stemmed from our very first tour in 2019. The case we told then was wild, filled with twists and turns. But you guys know me, and when I get in, like, I get into all the craziest rabbit holes, like, even over the smallest details. Well, in the case from our first tour, there was a suspect who had Googled this term that had nothing to do with the case we talked about. This suspect had Googled Dana Ireland autopsy photos.

• 1:26Ashley Flowers?

  Now, I had never heard of Dana Ireland, and like I said, it had nothing to do with the case we were talking about. Why is he Googling this? So I kept digging and digging. I just had to know more. And thus, the years-long journey of exploring Dana Ireland and her case began. This case is one that has so many layers, and you can dive into all of the details on our latest season of the podcast, Three. This season is hosted by someone I'm sure you crime junkies already know, Amanda Knox. She's gonna walk you through the case, through how three men were convicted of Dana's murder, and through the many costs that she knows firsthand come when the justice system gets it wrong.

• 2:12Ashley Flowers?

  And as our team was on the ground reporting in Hawaii where this case took place, an update came that changed everything. And because you all are my crime junkies, and I know you want to be the first in the know, I am sharing the first episode of this season of Three with you right here, right now. So take a listen, and then head over to the podcast Three. You can find it wherever you get your podcasts, and you can listen to the second episode that also dropped today. Again, just search for Three wherever you listen to podcasts.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  It's 9:21 a.m. on Tuesday, January 24, 2023, and a man named Ian Schweitzer is standing in a courtroom in Hilo, Hawaii. He's not a total stranger to this feeling or to the criminal justice system in general. He's been here before. But this time, it's for very different reasons. Over 23 years ago, Ian was convicted of a crime he firmly asserts he did not commit. And for almost two decades, the Innocence Project has been trying to help him prove it. Ian's team, including the legendary Barry Scheck,

• 3:39Speaker 01

  who co-founded the original Innocence Project in 1992, well, they would spend the next seven hours stating their case in front of Judge Kubota.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Your Honor, this is a critical day in Ian Schweitzer's journey towards justice. It started on October 4, 1997, when he was arrested in jail for the sexual assault and murder of Dana Ireland. He has insisted on his innocence for all who would listen for 26 years. 9,243 days, marked by fear, confusion, isolation, sorrow, anger, despair, terror, and now hope.

• 4:33Speaker 02

  Ian never stopped, hoping that this injustice would be corrected. The family has been ridiculed, shunned, treated like pariahs in their community. But none of the Schweitzer's ever gave up hope that there would be a day of justice that would arrive. As Dr. King famously said, after the five-day march from Selma to Montgomery, "Truth crushed to earth will rise again. No lie can live forever." The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice. We want to thank the court in particular for the wisdom, guidance, and patience that

• 5:18Speaker 02

  you've had with all of us over this entire proceeding. We rest.

• 5:24Speaker 03

  His family, yeah, filled up the courtroom. And what was odd is, it's a lot of times, you know, when you have someone charged with a serious crime, you know, some departments of public safety overflow the courtroom with deputies, right? Like, this is a scary person, right? So, when we first get there, I mean, they are extremely mean to the attorneys, very mean to one of our volunteer attorneys, very mean to the family members, these are the deputies, right? Who believed, at least from my perception, believed that Ian was guilty. And the hearing, as you said, lasted all day, and they had to stay there. They, being the deputies, had to stay there all day. And you could see, the more that they heard that evidence, the nicer they started becoming with the family members.

• 6:09Speaker 03

  The more they heard that evidence, right? The more human they seemed to become.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  That's Ken Lawson, the co-director of the Hawaii Innocence Project. They have been looking into Ian's case since around 2006. But when Ken started in 2010, he took it over. And ever since, he's been damn near determined to prove his client's innocence. But no one had predicted that today would be the day, especially not Ian.

• 6:42Speaker 03

  I think he knew that he was supposed to be coming back for him. He didn't know that he was coming back so soon because he was in quarantine. The Department of Public Services has to fly out to get him and bring him back. And they were saying because of the COVID rules, that he would have had to stay in quarantine there. And then when he came back here, he would have had to be quarantined in the jail before he could even come to court. The next question was, are we going to get a judge that's going to listen?

• 7:10Speaker 01

  To everyone's surprise, the judge announces his verdict later that same day.

• 7:17Speaker 04

  My amazing team broke down everything and just step by step, just knocked everything out. My belief was the hand of God was going to kick me. I had God's team.

• 7:30Speaker 05

  It is the judgment of this court that the new DNA evidence, the tire tread evidence, the bite mark evidence, and Sean Schweitzer's recantation conclusively proves that in a new trial, a jury would likely reach a different verdict of acquittal. So therefore, the conviction of Albert Ian Schweitz for murder in the second degree, kidnapping, and sexual assault in the first degree is hereby vacated. And Mr. Schweitzer is to be released immediately from custody in this court.

• 8:06Speaker 05

  So, Mr. Schweitzer, I'm going to ask you directly. You've spent roughly half of your life so far as a free man and another half of your life in prison. How old are you now? One. You're one. Okay.

• 8:22Speaker 05

  The question is, how do you make up for that lost time? And I'll give you a bit of advice. You've lived roughly one-third of your life. You've got one-third of your life ahead of you. You can live it being angry and resentful at the process or the people that put you there, or you can live it with a new freedom. All right? I suggest that since you have your whole family here, you hug and love your family and live a fulfilled life and make the best of the next one-third of your life.

• 8:54Speaker 05

  So, after we conclude this proceeding, the family of Mr. Schweitzer are allowed to come across the bar. No one else is allowed to come forward to greet Mr. Schweitzer. Mr. Schweitzer shall be released from his shackles immediately.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  In a matter of hours, Ian Schweitzer is free. Well, sort of. It's a feeling very few people understand: being charged and convicted of a crime you didn't commit. While his story played out a little differently, Ian's brother Sean is also one of those people.

• 9:38Speaker 06

  It took my deal, I got out, and I was supporting my family. It's shady that I had to do that, but... You better not take it. You better not take it. I would have been sitting in the, you know, the cell right by him if I didn't do that. That's the way I felt.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  And so am I.

• 9:59Speaker 07

  A 22-year-old American student, Amanda Knox, was found guilty in Italy of murdering her British roommate. She was immediately sentenced to 26 years in an Italian prison.

• 10:10Speaker 08

  As the verdict was read, a crowd outside the courtroom burst into cheers. Inside the courtroom, Amanda Knox and her family began to sob.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  I'm Amanda Knox. And while studying abroad in 2007, what was supposed to be a once-in-a-lifetime college experience turned into a life-altering nightmare. One I would spend the following eight years trapped inside of and will carry with me for the rest of my life.

• 10:38Speaker 09

  Amanda Knox walks free. This was an extraordinary day in Italy and all over the United States.

• 10:46Speaker 10

  Immediate liberation. She didn't commit the crime. The words of the judge. Tonight, she's free.

• 10:53Speaker 01

  In February 2023, after Ian was released from prison, I traveled to Hawaii and met him in person. Little did I know that almost two years later, I would be sitting down now with you all to tell you what has happened since that very conversation. Behind every wrongful conviction is a devastating and complicated web that is almost impossible to untangle. But during this series, we're going to try to do just that. Because justice doesn't have to be complicated. And the victims in this case deserve clarity. Justice too long delayed is justice denied.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  Over the past 18 months, we've had a team of people who've been out on the Hawaiian islands investigating this story, talking to the people that were there firsthand, some who have never spoken out before, recording in-depth interviews that you will hear nowhere else. We've pored through nearly 40,000 pages of documents about this case. We've listened to countless hours of audio, from witness stories and confessions to secret grand jury testimony and never-before-heard interviews with jailhouse informants, all so we could discover the truth behind the murder of Dana Ireland

• 12:19Speaker 01

  and the three families who will never be the same because of it. But what we didn't expect was that the story would change drastically over the last year and a half as we investigated. Actually, no one did.

• 12:36Speaker 01

  In July 2024, the world found out who really killed Dana Ireland. A name that never popped up on investigators' radar matched the DNA left at the scene and on the body of Dana Ireland.

• 12:51Speaker 11

  If you had told me a month ago that this is where this path would have turned, I would have called you a liar and said, "There's no possible way."

• 12:58Speaker 01

  But to understand how we got here, you have to understand what has transpired in the 33 years since Dana Ireland was murdered. I'm Amanda Knox, and this is Three, Season Two: Murder in Vacation Land. We're asking you to come with us to the Big Island to hear the untold story of what really happened to Dana Ireland and how her death impacted the lives of three families: the Irelands, the Schweitzers, and the Paulines.

• 13:38Speaker 06

  We all sat DNA on our side. It didn't matter. We didn't even have the car.

• 13:46Speaker 12

  We didn't even have the car.

• 13:47Speaker 04

  Guilty to proven innocence.

• 13:49Speaker 12

  No, it ain't Schweitzer's. Like I said, I just said that because that's what the detectives wanted.

• 14:16Ashley Flowers?

  Do me a favor: Put all five fingers up. Now, put one down if you have workout saved on Instagram that you haven't gone back to. Put one down if you were gonna go to a workout class this week, but there's just none that the times worked out for. Put one down if you don't like working out at home because you don't know what to do and you need someone to push you. Put two fingers down if you want to stop this game. Babe, we are the same. I don't have a lot of time, and honestly, I'm not even someone who likes working out. But Ladder actually changed that. I literally had to waddle into the studio to record this because... Because my butt is so sore. Ladder is quick. I'm not wasting time wandering around or doing reps of something that won't matter. I'm in, I'm out. I have a coach along the way who can help me make 30 minutes with weights feel better than two hours of whatever I was doing before. And it's $1 a day.

• 15:01Ashley Flowers?

  So if price was ever stopping you before, you're officially out of excuses. Remove the guesswork with Ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout. No thinking, everything planned for you. If you have an iPhone, head to ladder.fit/crimejunkie and take a quick quiz to find your perfect ladder plan. Use my link and get a free seven-day trial with no credit card and $10 off your first month if you join.

• 15:29Ashley Flowers?

  Let's face it, if student loans are slowing down your financial goals, it might be time for a smarter strategy. That's where today's sponsor, SoFi, comes in. SoFi is helping you tackle student debt by refinancing your loans with flexible monthly payments that fit your budget. We're talking about the potential to lower your interest rate, reduce your monthly payment, or even pay off your loan sooner, depending on the term you choose. You can also consolidate your student loans into one simple monthly payment, so you could save more each month and work towards achieving your long-term financial ambitions. SoFi offers competitive fixed and variable rates and no origination fees, prepayment fees, or late fees required. It takes just two minutes to check your rate with SoFi, and they have already helped over 500,000 members refinance more than $50 billion in student loans.

• 16:13Ashley Flowers?

  Visit sofi.com/crimejunkie to see how much you can save. That's sofi.com/crimejunkie and start making smarter money moves with SoFi. SoFi's student loans are originated by SoFi Bank, N.A., member FDIC. Additional terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  Chapter One. Christmas in Hawaii.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  It's December 1991, in a small town, Kapoh, located on the eastern end of what's known as the Big Island of Hawaii. It's not the place most mainlanders think of when they imagine the Hawaii Islands. It's quieter, slower, serene, the ultimate tropical paradise, and often called one of Hawaii's best-kept secrets. And within Kapoh, there is this little subdivision called, almost too perfectly, Vacation Land. At around 5:30 PM on Christmas Eve, a local woman named Ida Smith had just gotten home

• 17:24Speaker 01

  from running some afternoon errands and is settling back, when she hears something strange. The call of a hawk? No. She realizes what she's hearing is not bird calls. It's sounding more like a girl who is calling for help. Ida quickly follows the direction of the faint screams, which take her towards a vacant house near her property. And then she sees her. About 80 to 90 feet down the narrow gravel roadway towards the waterfront, surrounded by bushes, is a young woman in desperate need of medical attention.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  She is barely clothed, and it's clear she is suffering from numerous injuries by the amount of blood on her. And based on her appearance, Ida also believes the woman has been sexually assaulted.

• 18:19Speaker 13

  She had nothing on. Her jeans were... she had cut off jeans and they were done on her ankle. And her shirt looked like it's someone had grabbed it and tore it off her like that. So I got hold of her arm, you know, and I said, "Let me help you up." And she started to scream.

• 18:41Speaker 13

  I'm okay. And I thought I stopped because I didn't want to hurt her.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Ida books it to the main road on the other side of her home to flag down the first car she sees. Thankfully, it doesn't take long, and in a matter of minutes, a group of individuals, including a nurse who lives nearby, are down there comforting the victim as they anxiously wait for an ambulance to arrive. And they're praying it won't be long because the woman's condition is only getting worse. It's obvious she is in severe pain, and through it, she's trying to make words. Some are coherent, some not. But they can make out her name. Dana.

• 19:28Speaker 01

  By 6:20 PM, an officer makes his way to the scene. But unfortunately, the ambulance doesn't arrive for another hour. Once arrived, Ida and the group watch as Dana is whisked away towards Hilo Hospital, two hours after Ida found her. It might have been sooner if she wasn't in such a remote area, but it was the type of path you wouldn't even know was there unless you knew. By 8 PM, a flurry of people, including paramedics, rushed Dana into the hospital on a gurney. And there, in the waiting room, is her family.

• 20:11Speaker 01

  They've been there for about two hours, ever since they figured out something was wrong. And now they are watching their Dana, 23-year-old Dana Ireland, fighting for her life. When detectives speak with Dana's older sister Sandy in the waiting room, they discover Sandy moved to the Big Island a few years earlier, and Dana came to visit often. Then, only two months prior, Dana decided to stay in Hawaii for good. So for the holidays, Dana and Sandy's parents, John and Louise Ireland, decided to fly in from Virginia and join them on the Big Island for a few weeks.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  The family says earlier that day, before they were planning on celebrating Christmas Eve, Dana decided to go on a bike ride. So she borrowed her sister Sandy's bike and headed out to her friend Mark's house, which is about a seven-mile ride. But when Sandy and her boyfriend Jim were driving over to their parents' rental house around 5:00 PM, they saw something on the side of the road that caught their attention. A crowd of people all gathered around what looked like the scene of an accident. Sandy went from curious to terrified when she recognized the crushed bike lying in the road.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  It was her bike, the one she had just let Dana borrow a couple hours earlier. Next to it was Dana's wristwatch, the band completely broken, a foot-long chunk of blond hair, and a single white athletic shoe still tied. Sandy and Jim rushed to her parents' rental, which was just minutes away, to tell them what they saw, and they all headed back to the scene. But when they arrived, Dana's mom Louise saw what was going on, assumed Dana had been involved in some kind of accident, and so the family headed over to the local hospital in case she showed up.

• 22:17Speaker 01

  But they never imagined she would show up like this. They watch in shock as the doctors do their best to save Dana, but she is just too far gone.

• 22:31Speaker 01

  A little after midnight on Christmas morning, Dana dies after hours of attempted life-saving measures. Her cause of death: exsanguination, or blood loss, due to multiple traumatic injuries of the head, neck, chest, abdomen, and pelvis. In Dana's autopsy report, Dr. Charles Reinhold notes a disturbing amount of injuries. Dana's chest, back, arms, legs, and face were covered with abrasions, cuts, and bruises. Her collarbone and pelvis were fractured. She had extensive hemorrhaging in her heart, lungs, stomach, and bladder.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  But the doctors find something even more disturbing, and which can't be explained by a car accident: a bite mark on her left breast, and the presence of semen. So while Dana's family is reeling from her sudden death, police scour not just the one, but the two scenes related to Dana, which are about five miles apart. The first scene is on Kapohokai Drive, where Dana's bike was discovered. They find tire impressions in the dirt. They make plaster casts of the tracks, and take several pictures of tire marks,

• 23:58Speaker 01

  including a single, deep gouge mark on Kapohokai Drive, which larger, double tire tracks lead into. Detectives identify the gouge mark as the point at which the bicycle tire was driven into the road from the collision. They find Dana's black bicycle seat on the side of the road near the tracks. Once finished at the collision scene, detectives head five miles away to the Wa'awa' fishing trail, where Dana had been found. She was about 80 to 90 feet off the main road in the bushes, just off the right side of the trail. Leaves surrounding her were bloody, too, as if she'd been placed, or possibly thrown there,

• 24:42Speaker 01

  in an effort to conceal her. Her jean shorts and her missing white avia tennis shoe are found nearby. But there's more. There's a child's black McGregor shoe, the left one only, and two white socks stuffed inside. There's also a blue-colored t-shirt, size large, with a print of a station wagon and the Jimmy Z logo, which was a popular brand at the time, especially on the Big Island. Then, up the trail, about halfway between the road and where Dana was found, a black knit adult sock and a red panty, size large. Police also find cigarette butts

• 25:27Speaker 01

  and two Corona beer bottles. Everything gets collected and tagged. But what is at the scene is only part of the story. The question still stands as to how Dana could have ended up there.

• 25:47Ashley Flowers?

  Do me a favor. Put all five fingers up. Now, put one down if you have workouts saved on Instagram that you haven't gone back to. Put one down if you were gonna go to a workout class this week, but there's just none that the times worked out for. Put one down if you don't like working out at home because you don't know what to do and you need someone to push you. Put two fingers down if you want to stop this game. Babe, we are the same. I don't have a lot of time and honestly, I'm not even someone who likes working out. But Ladder actually changed that. I literally had to waddle into the studio to record this because my butt is so sore. Ladder is quick. I'm not wasting time wandering around or doing reps of something that won't matter. I'm in, I'm out. I have a coach along the way who can help me make 30 minutes with weights feel better than two hours of whatever I was doing before. And it's $1 a day.

• 26:32Ashley Flowers?

  So if price was ever stopping you before, you're officially out of excuses. Remove the guesswork with Ladder and get a real coach in your ear telling you exactly what to do for every workout. No thinking, everything planned for you. If you have an iPhone, head to ladder.fit/crimejunkie and take a quick quiz to find your perfect Ladder plan. Use my link and get a free seven-day trial with no credit card and $10 off your first month if you join.

• 27:00Ashley Flowers?

  Let's face it. If student loans are slowing down your financial goals, it might be time for a smarter strategy. That's where today's sponsor, SoFi, comes in. SoFi is helping you tackle student debt by refinancing your loans with flexible monthly payments that fit your budget. We're talking about the potential to lower your interest rate, reduce your monthly payment, or even pay off your loan sooner, depending on the term you choose. You can also consolidate your student loans into one simple monthly payment so you could save more each month and work towards achieving your long-term financial ambitions. SoFi offers competitive fixed and variable rates and no origination fees, prepayment fees, or late fees required. It takes just two minutes to check your rate with SoFi, and they have already helped over 500,000 members refinance more than $50 billion in student loans.

• 27:44Ashley Flowers?

  Visit sofi.com/crimejunkie to see how much you can save. That's sofi.com/crimejunkie and start making smarter money moves with SoFi. SoFi's student loans are originated by SoFi Bank, N.A., member FDIC. Additional terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  After speaking with her family and witnesses at both crime scenes, authorities tried to build a rough timeline of events based on everything they know so far, which begins at the home of Mark Evans in Apohika'au at 4:10 PM. Mark was the friend Dana went to visit on her bike the night of the murder, and he told police that while their relationship in the beginning leaned a little towards the romantic side, they were totally platonic. Sometime shortly thereafter, the police speak to a witness who says they saw a woman who looked like Dana passing places called "shacks" and "secrets," both local surfing hangout spots.

• 28:50Speaker 01

  Based on this, authorities determined she was run over at approximately 4:40 PM, less than half a mile from her parents' vacation land rental home, which she was most likely headed back to for the family's Christmas Eve dinner. Then, as she was riding her bike, she was struck in the rear by a vehicle heading in the Makai direction, AKA east towards the sea, on Kapo'ho'kai Drive, which would indicate that Dana was also traveling in the Makai direction on the right side of the road before someone grabbed her and drove away to move her to that isolated area along the trail.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  There, she would endure a nightmare before being left for dead. As detectives continue to work to fill in the pieces, a flurry of calls and leads about trucks, vans, and SUVs believed to be in the area flows in from the community. One comes from Eric Carl Smith. He lives on the first house on the left on Ililani Road, and he says he was with his girlfriend Karina on Christmas Eve. He tells police he noticed a pickup truck facing southwest at the intersection of Ililani Road and Kapo'ho'kai Drive. This was the spot where Dana was hit.

• 30:15Speaker 14

  What color was the truck? Turquoise green. It was, uh, it wasn't aqua color. It was green. It was like a pine and turquoise green mix, darker color. I can tell you what kind of wood is over there and I can tell you. I can tell you any kind of wood that's in the forest and I can tell you if it's straight or... I have an eye like a hawk. And right now, you know, I can read the stop right behind the tree over there. You see the stop sign?

• 30:47Speaker 01

  So, police are focusing on a truck or van. And this makes sense. The road from Vacation Land to the Ocean Trail off Beach Road where Dana was found is barely drivable by a car. It's a tucked away, isolated, unpaved fishing trail of sorts, and really only known to the locals in the area. It'd be hard to find otherwise. But, obviously, they still need more. And fortunately, or maybe unfortunately, there's no shortage of witness accounts. And this is the part where I would have walked you through detectives interviewing each one of them from the day Dana was found.

• 31:30Speaker 01

  Like Ida Smith, the woman who first found Dana.

• 31:34Speaker 13

  And it wouldn't stop. "Help me, help me." And I said, "Well..." The voice was very shady, that's why I thought it was a little girl. I heard the cop crying, so I said, "I'm coming, you know, just where are you?" I started looking.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  Or Demian Fiero, who was 10 at the time and was one of the first ones to discover the broken bike in the road.

• 31:56Speaker 15

  Um, there was, there was some stuff in the road. Um, her shoe. There was a bike, of course. Some hair, a watch. And, um, me and Rick were actually the first ones on the scene. And so we went further down and jumped out and took a look, kind of, because there was some tire... There was some tire jackets further down the road, right, where they turned around. You could tell they turned around. So, we went home and called. We made the call. We ended up walking back up to the scene. At that time, I was trying to give them as much information as that I had. There was nothing more I could do, which I wish, you know, there was, but...

• 32:38Speaker 15

  I had people at school, you know, somehow caught wind of it and they would blame me. "Oh, you had something to do with it," you know? It was, it was, it wasn't cool.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  But like I said before, the story we were planning on telling you when we first started investigating in 2023 is a very different one today in 2025, which means how we tell it to you is also very different. Because what holds weight now is not the same as then. So instead, in this series, I'll be focusing on what you need to know to understand how we ended up where we are today, how so many lives got tangled up in one of the most devastating and high-profile cases to ever hit the Big Island.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Coming up on this season of Three. There were no winners. There were no winners in this entire situation.

• 33:35Speaker 03

  When you know how these first start happen, I thought, these guys gotta be fucking joking. This isn't a joke. You guys gotta come to your senses at some point and figure out that it ain't us. But no, I guess not. It's, uh, if you want it, you want it. You're gonna, you're gonna push to have it. So somebody's lying, right? Go back and look. I had the students that don't read the transcripts, read the police reports. The transcripts aren't gonna tell you what's not in evidence. What's not, the transcripts gonna tell you what came in the evidence, not all the shit that didn't come in. You have to read the police reports. Go back to the police reports, read them carefully. And that's how you start reinvestigating a case.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  That's next in Chapter Two, which you can listen to right now.

• 34:38Speaker 16

  Growing up in a small town, I know how deeply a crime can shake a local community. And I know that what makes the headlines is rarely the full story. That's what Kylie Lowe explores on her show Dark Down East. She digs into cases from Maine and New England using original reporting, archival records, and conversations with the people who knew them best. Each episode takes you inside the communities these stories shaped and the families who never stop searching for answers. Listen to Dark Down East wherever you get your podcasts.

• 35:06Speaker 17

  When the nights grow longer, the shadows start to stir. And that can only mean one thing. Full Body Chills is back. This season, step inside original tales where every doorway leads somewhere darker, every stranger carries a secret, and nothing is ever quite what it seems. Each story takes you somewhere new, but be careful. You never know what might follow you home. So gather round, listen close, and stream Full Body Chills wherever you get your podcasts.