Diplo: College Dropout To World's Most Iconic DJ

Diplo is a DJ and music producer, who as well as being one of the biggest solo DJs in the world, is one half of Major Lazer and Silk City. But when Diplo was growing up in the deep American south, the music world seemed a million miles away. A journey to expand his horizons and connect with new types of people and music would take him to Brazil, Japan, Jamaica and many, many more places. DJs like Diplo are in the business of creating unforgettable moments and experiences for their audience, but what is it like to live those moments nearly every day, every time in a new city, every time in a new way? His new album ‘Diplo’ is out now. Follow Diplo: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/diplo Diplo's new album - https://open.spotify.com/album/2Lm2otWdTB4ChDfvbRXHIu Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  If I knew now what I knew then, I would have done a different journey.

• 0:04Steven Bartlett?

  And the Grammy goes to.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  Dance album.

• 0:06Steven Bartlett?

  DJ of the year.

• 0:07Speaker 00

  Diplo.

• 0:08Steven Bartlett?

  Diplo.

• 0:09Speaker 00

  And I just remember I did this whole circuit, working all these young rappers, and they were like really young. They were like 19, 20, and these rappers all started to die. You know, Little Peep overdosed, X was shot. Nobody really cares about like all the adoration you get. You care about the people that don't like you and that you get caught up in that. It's not a consistent paycheck. Music never is, and it wasn't for me for three, four years. By one month, I'm not doing good. I don't care. I can't pay rent. I'm homeless.

• 0:34Steven Bartlett?

  What's the sacrifice or the cost in terms of like personal life balance?

• 0:38Speaker 00

  I have to answer that?

• 0:49Steven Bartlett?

  Wes.

• 0:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 0:51Steven Bartlett?

  Whenever I do this podcast, I always get really intrigued by the formative years of someone's life. And in your story, it seemed like a very, very humble beginning. When I look at where you started under the age of 14, I couldn't quite piece together myself, obviously, how that early upbringing had led you to becoming who you are today. Is there, is there anything when from below the age of say like 14 that you can point out and say, if that hadn't have happened, or if that, if I hadn't had that experience or that interaction with a family member or a grandfather, whatever it might be, I don't think I would be here today.

• 1:28Speaker 00

  I didn't start really producing, releasing music till like my mid twenties because it was pretty late. I was doing things, but not actually at a level where I could quit my job. And it's my main source of income. But when I was younger, I was a pretty bad kid. I was bouncing from high schools and different middle schools. And I was, I was actually sent to a military school at one point at like that age of 14. And I even got expelled from there. And then like, that was like the last, my, my last shot, right? And I came back, they let me back in because it cost my family like a lot of money. It was like $3,000 for me to go there because I was, I was getting sent out of every school. But going to the military school, maybe if anything, it taught me how to like,

• 2:10Speaker 00

  if I was going to do something criminal or like something bad, like it was bad, be a little smarter about it. If anything, because everybody there was like criminal. The whole military school is just a bunch of terrible kids and they were like, really knew what they were doing.

• 2:21Speaker 00

  So if anything, I kind of like, it was like learning from the school of hard knocks, you know?

• 2:27Speaker 00

  But I think being in military school, even that there was only like for one year. And my father, he was a Vietnam vet and you know, I think I can attribute his, his concept of discipline to it, you know, like no matter how bad I was or how much I disagreed with my father, he gave me the most complex rules of what discipline means, what it, what it is to apply in whatever you're doing. And I didn't realize that till I was older, that you know, all these, what was, what makes my story successful? Like what makes me a better DJ or what makes me a better songwriter? It really, I don't have the technical abilities, but I have, I always apply myself to find a goal, you know, and I really feel like that's what my father gave me before, before I turned into an adult, because it's just something I had inside me that separated

• 3:12Speaker 00

  me from everybody else when I got into the music business.

• 3:14Steven Bartlett?

  Work ethic was such a clear thread throughout your story, like relentless, almost at times it seems somewhat obsessive work ethic. And it's funny because when I hear about your early upbringing, I, I guess my assumption is because it sounds quite similar to mine, getting kicked out of school and, and being the only kid out of four siblings that was like always getting bad grades, always in exclusion. Were people, did people around you think you were going nowhere

• 3:37Speaker 00

  at that point? A hundred percent.

• 3:38Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 3:39Speaker 00

  I mean, even till the mid twenties, my father was like, how did you buy this house? Like, how did you, what are you doing? Like there's no, there's no way possibly you're making money with music. Like he's like, there's just no possible way. And I went to college, I went for, um, I went to UCF, like a little part of community college because I couldn't afford like a real school. I did two years there, just basically just getting, just being in a school so that I could have something to advance forward. And then I went to Temple University in Philly and I ended up dropping out of that school, but I went for anthropology and filmmaking. So it was like a really, two other degrees that would literally turn into no job. But I was obsessed with documentary filmmaking. I thought that would be something I could, I could do. I was obsessed with culture. I was obsessed with humans and people and the study of culture. And I was, you know, as a young person, I was reading National Geographic all

• 4:22Speaker 00

  the time and watching documentaries. So that was something, I was like, how do I apply that? You know? And my father was also like, this is a huge mistake. What are you doing? What about accounting? That's a great degree to have. Um, in the end, I think what I'd learned at that university was, um, because in the film program, it was like, There was a lot of creative avenues I could learn from and the people who are professors were almost like filmmakers that didn't make it and they have to be professors, it kind of feels like. So I was like, what am I doing here? I don't want to learn. These people aren't even in the business, you know? So the real business is like going out and making it yourself. And I think I just did that set third year. I was like, I'm out of school. But I kind of wish I had dropped out of college earlier and had a head start.

• 5:06Speaker 00

  Because it took you a while when you're paying your college tuition and working and it's so time consuming. And then eventually I started to do music and do those odd jobs like DJing to where I was like, oh, I can kind of like quit my jobs now. And also like, yeah, I think if I knew now what I knew then, I would have done a different journey, but I think that was what makes you who you are, you know? No matter how long it takes.

• 5:28Steven Bartlett?

  And eventually you make that decision to sort of start heading towards music, right? Even though it's not paying you at all. And I was reading about the jobs you were doing in that period of your life. You worked at a zoo at one point.

• 5:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:39Steven Bartlett?

  You were a social worker at one point.

• 5:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:41Steven Bartlett?

  How long did that period of your life, when you'd made the decision to move towards music and that music was going to be your thing, how long was that?

• 5:48Speaker 00

  It definitely wasn't, I mean, I, at twenty-two years old, I was already working like nine to fives, you know? It was, it was like, the social work job was my first job as, like, this is a job that feels good to do. Like, you know, I'm working with children. I was going between teaching kids and then have a school program. And it just felt like, okay, this is cool. It feels like I'm doing something for somebody instead of working at like Subway and making money for the head of Subway, which is kind of like a waste of my energy. But working with kids, I felt a little bit like I felt fulfilled, you know? I think, but then you run into the bureaucracy of, I was in a city like Philadelphia. So it was just like so much corruption, even in like the social work world. It was crazy.

• 6:32Speaker 00

  Eventually I was getting beaten down at that job too. I was like, this is, this is my life, like twenty-two. I'm like, this is, this is all I can look forward to is like building my way into like this job or this job. And I think I started DJing on the side at parties and.

• 6:48Speaker 00

  Learning from the DJs there, because Philadelphia is a famous city for DJing. It's like culturally, one of the most important cities in America for hip hop, for DJing. And I just started doing parties and then I saw what you do if you do your own party. Like you can invest, invest in yourself and promote a party and you take everything, right? So I started learning small, little business acumen from just doing parties. And then eventually I started, I can quit my job. I can make it. It was a huge step because at that point you don't know when you're doing music and parties full time. It's literally up to how much you're working or what you're doing to keep the money flowing to pay the rent. If I don't, one, one month, I'm not doing good. I don't care. I can't pay rent. I'm homeless. It's not a consistent paycheck. Music never is, and it wasn't for me for probably three, four years.

• 7:32Speaker 00

  But yeah, it took, it just, it's just literally just putting your boots to the ground and like doing the work and like failing at it and learning what makes you better, what makes you more money, like what's, how do you grow this business? Even in these little small steps, that's kind of what I did in those, those first years of my career. And I wasn't even really making my own music yet. I was just DJing and making mixtapes and making edits and learning how to use computers still. Like I had nobody to teach me. I was buying hardware or, you know, in high school shoplifting from Sam Goody and Sam Ash and like Guitar Center, like samplers to use. So it really just came down to just the grind, to figure out what works and what doesn't.

• 8:09Steven Bartlett?

  It was so evident even when I was hearing about you like in the record stores and ultimately selling a record to can, are they vinyls you were selling to?

• 8:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:15Steven Bartlett?

  Samples and stuff. But throughout that, even like your, the story about you reading, was it William Faulkner's book?

• 8:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:21Steven Bartlett?

  And you, you had this clear hunger for learning, like teaching yourself how to make music.

• 8:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:27Steven Bartlett?

  Teaching yourself computers, teaching yourself the business side of things. Most people don't have a predisposition just to figure stuff out.

• 8:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:34Steven Bartlett?

  And that, again, when I'm trying to figure out exactly how you became this global superstar, I'm like, that feels to be a consistent thread throughout your story as well, that learning hunger.

• 8:43Speaker 00

  I think when you think about what a DJ is, uh, you know, now they're like David Guetta, they're headlining festivals or even me, like I'm headlining my own shows. But back when I was growing up, you know, The big DJs from say Detroit, like the magician or like, you know, Afghani Bambada. People that were DJs were like the selectors. They were like the guys who did all the work to know what music is there, what this music is, how this music exists. And they were like kind of the cultural benchmark. They were the guys who cataloged everything for, to distribute in the scene, right? So I think I loved that. Like I was like, I wanna, I love music. Like I love what it is. I love, and I went to parties and I remember seeing people like Questlove and like, Cash Money and these DJs like Kozak Baker are playing crazy records, like playing Fela Kuti and then playing like,

• 9:29Speaker 00

  you know, a disco record and then playing something new, like a local hip hop record. And I was like, and then they're playing like, Babe Ruth, like an old rock and roll record. I was, I was so obsessed with how they could connect these things that don't make any sense musically. And that's what I always thought was the great, I think, story of what DJs do is they're like guys who can process all this culture and give it to you in a certain way. And now it's more streamlined. You're gonna go to a house party, hear house music, you're gonna go to like a bashment party, hear dance hall, but the really special DJs were able to like do everything. And so I think when I learned that was like a skill set, I started looking at vinyl. I started learning about different music. I would like ask DJs, what is that record you're playing? Who are these artists? Like what is Fela Kuti? Where's Nigeria? Where do they make music? Like what's the sound like?

• 10:09Speaker 00

  You know, then I'm like, where are the producers? Like, oh, the guy from Who went to Nigeria and was a drummer there. And then he went back and did this. And then, oh, James Brown heard this guy. And then he hired another drummer. This is like, became like a web of music. I started to follow everything and read liner notes. And then I just was obsessed with, with gaining all the knowledge about music, whatever I could, and using that to apply it to being a DJ. That obsession just led me to being a record collector, you know? Like I said, I traveled a little bit. At the end of my university, I went to India with one of my professors to work on a documentary and the border of Pakistan and India is called, in Gujarat. It was like this, this little, kind of like a valley called the Round of Kutch. There was a huge earthquake there, I think around 2000. And I was there doing some sort of building work and, you know, working with Red Cross and things like that. And

• 10:54Speaker 00

  Then I just kind of bounced and took a motorcycle and just went all over India and just explored my own and I bought a bunch of vinyl. At the time, the most expensive record in the world were these Beatles seventy eights. They were like Beatles records, but at seventy eight RPM. If you find good ones in India, they only make many of you. If you find good ones, they were worth like a thousand to a couple thousand dollars. But I was finding Indian soundtracks. I was finding things like, um, there's a rec, a classic Indian soundtrack called Shalamar with like crazy like spy themes and like breakbeats on it at the time. If you find one of those at a record shop, pay like a, you know, a couple rupees. You could bring it back to, to London and sell it at like Poland Street for like, you know, three hundred pounds. So that was like this weird hack I found, like traveling and buying records.

• 11:36Speaker 00

  I did it in India, I did it in Philadelphia, I would go to New Jersey, I'd go to New York, I would buy record, old records and sell it to different record collectors, you know. Nick Questlove was one of my first guys I sold to. I sold records to Kanye West when he first started producing.

• 11:49Speaker 00

  Collecting records was like a, a, a certain business and on eBay. That was another hustle I had, like selling things that I buy flea market stuff and sell on eBay. A lot of it was vinyl.

• 11:59Steven Bartlett?

  One of the, one of the thing again, things again, that's so, um, obvious and apparent with you, which is kind of a thread that kind of weaves between many of my guests, specifically comedians for some reason, because comedians, they, at some point, you see this decision they've made to like leave the city, leave like their job in finance and pursue this thing that has no apparent chance of making them any money at all, but they just follow this like passionate obsession. They spend a year going up and down the country, working for nothing because they're obsessed with comedy for whatever reason. And a lot of young people, when they think about being a DJ or an entrepreneur, whatever, they think to themselves, okay, I want the admiration of standing there and all these people clapping for me and the money.

• 12:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:36Steven Bartlett?

  But you were so clearly led by this like unbelievably obsessive passion, which seems actually to be, if I was to say ninety five percent of my guests, um, followed one path, it would definitely be, they didn't really care about the outcome, they cared about like the passion and the pursuit of the passion.

• 12:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:52Steven Bartlett?

  That's so clear with you, right?

• 12:53Speaker 00

  I mean, the beginning was definitely a hustle. Like I love music and it saved me from, you know, even in a high school, I, you know, I moved from different high school to high school and I didn't have a, a friend group. So I kind of was like leaning towards, I want to play music, but I couldn't. My parents didn't even buy me a guitar, like I didn't even know how to play. I was like, well, how am I going to learn a guitar, you know, how am I going to learn piano? But I like was like DJing, that's like the future of music like in my, it was like turntableism was really big. I remember being like sixteen, being like, I'm gonna buy record players. That's what I'm gonna buy. That's like, that's what I'm gonna do as a, as like a creative person. This is like a futuristic way to do things. So I leaned into that, started learning what a DJ was. But in the beginning, yeah, I had to do the groundwork to know what it is I'm gonna play, like what it is that the music comes from.

• 13:35Speaker 00

  Where was this music at? Where do I buy the records? What do the crowds react to? Et cetera, et cetera. So yeah, this formative years, I spent time grinding. But then eventually I was like, okay, how do I make money out of this? And yes, I want to play for a crowd and they saw my adoration. Yes, I want to meet girls, of course. That happens later and that's another drive. But in the beginning, I just, I didn't really expect to have a job out of it, you know?

• 13:57Steven Bartlett?

  Do you think you would have been as successful as you are if you, if someone had taught you how to make music? And you'd been really mentored by someone because sometimes that hurts innovation and creativity. If there's a, if convention is too involved.

• 14:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:12Steven Bartlett?

  You know what I mean?

• 14:13Speaker 00

  I do what you mean because I see nowadays like kids can literally learn and copy any style of music in a day. Because they have a tutorial. It's so easy. It's really easy and I wish I had that. But then at the same time, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have had such a definitive like who I am. And if I, when people always ask me when I do radio shows, like what are the advice you give to young DJs? And it's like always the same thing, like what makes yourself unique, like what, what really makes you different? Because I get throw a fucking rock and I'm gonna hit a DJ or artist in the head in London. Like I'm, there's somebody here. It's like, I'm not talking about you.

• 14:45Speaker 00

  But it's so easy. Like I literally get demos all the time. Like what? I don't even care. I don't even pay attention. I used to actually like try to listen to demos. I'm like, this is all the same shit. Like people are doing the same thing over and over again. Like, you know, whether whatever city you're in, there's like a thing. And every once in a while you get like a special person that comes out of nowhere and you're like, wow, that's unique. Like, but really what, what is it? Like for me? You were talking about William Faulkner. I really tapped into like my southern heritage when I was younger. I was like, what? I I loved like Miami bass music growing up in Florida. I love like, um, you know, the crunk scene, the bounce scene in New Orleans. I love, I grew up in Tennessee for a couple of years, so I love like Memphis rap was like my favorite thing. So when I went to the East Coast, none of that stuff was happening, like nobody listened to that music. So I was like, let me bring this to the East Coast. Let me start playing this at my parties.

• 15:27Speaker 00

  And it took off, like all this new sounds I brought, even though they were just like a one hour flight down south to hear Miami bass music. No one listened to it in Philly. So I was playing this stuff mixed with like eighties records. And that was like my brand. I was the guy that was like doing this mashup culture. And so nobody else had that party. There was like urban parties and be playing hip hop. There would be, you know, rock and roll parties playing like glam rock and you could dance to it. There would be like high end parties playing house music, but nobody was playing for like the art school kids and the hipsters at the time because it was pre hipster. It wasn't even a word yet. And I was like, that's my market. And I was like, no one's tapped into this. Let me go ahead and do this, you know, and every time I, every, every little venture I've done as a musician has been like, why is no one in this market? Like even when I did Major Lazer,

• 16:06Speaker 00

  it was like reggae and dance hall we were doing, but nobody was really doing it in the clubs in in America. There was like, if you go to like Philly, you want to see Vibes Cartel, you you have to go to like this one ghetto club in like Lancaster and it's like only Jamaicans there. And I'm like, this is such crazy music. Like, why don't we do this on another level? Like, why don't we work with some of these artists and do bigger records? And so I was like, no one was doing dance hall. Let's do it. This project. So everywhere I went, I was like, like experimenting, like what do, how do I do this and kind of make it my own? Or how do I like work this into my sets? And um, it's been like a journey, you know, this is 20 years now I'm doing this since I played at my first show at Fabric. And it feels like I've done so many, if you're a fan of mine, you follow me for 20 years. It's a really tough journey.

• 16:47Speaker 00

  Cause it's like, I'm done. You're gonna go to reggae music, you're gonna go to country music. Now you're gonna go to deep house. You're gonna go this way, that's the way. But a few people actually go with me and follow my career. So, you know, I think that's what makes me a one of a kind person, I guess. So back to my, my point. When young people give me, ask me questions of like, what is it? So what kind of advice, advice I can give you? I'm like, what? Find like a really unique thing and just. And just lean into that, lean into that so hard, like figure out, even if it feels weird, just make it make sense, you know, make it, make it work for you because otherwise you're just gonna be one in, one of a hundred, like clones of different DJs, different rappers.

• 17:22Steven Bartlett?

  If it feels weird, is that sometimes also an indication that there's a big opportunity there because it's, it's yet to break or it's yet to be discovered. So like weirdness might be a

• 17:30Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 17:31Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 17:31Speaker 00

  More now than ever. Back then it was like, I mean, even DJs wasn't a thing when I started doing it. Like you would, you wouldn't, DJ, being a DJ wasn't a career. It was like, there's a few guys on the radio. In Europe is different. There was a DJ culture here, but in America, there wasn't like a, a job description called DJ. Like you wouldn't think, there wasn't DJs on the radio, weren't, they weren't featuring on their music. Um, now it's pretty commonplace, but, but just being a DJ was unique for me. But nowadays, since there's so much information all the time, so much media, there's so much artists fighting for your eyeballs and your ears on TikTok and Instagram. It's more than ever important to have something like, wow, I gotta go look at that again. Cause it's like, just having a catchy hooks not enough.

• 18:15Speaker 00

  Everybody has a cat, like there's a thousand catchy hooks. You can just go and buy them literally at the market. It's like not special.

• 18:21Steven Bartlett?

  One thing that really surprised me about you as well is that you're quite, um, I don't know whether the word is, is humble about your talent, but when I, I've seen in multiple interviews, when you're asked what the biggest misconception is about you, one, one of them, you said is that, that I'm talented. And I've heard you say a number of times that you're faking it or that you, you're still looking for the, some kind of like validation that you're a real, you know, and even at the start of this conversation, you said, I'm not technically the best or

• 18:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:48Steven Bartlett?

  What is that? Is that imposter syndrome? What is that?

• 18:51Speaker 00

  No, I think I've always been like more of a conceptual artist. Like, you know, I think of music and concepts. I think of music as like, oh, it's like a math problem, you know, like how does this add to this? How do I make it work? You know, it's always been like a riddle. Every time I try to think of like what, to combine things. Now it's a little easier because I'm like, I'm doing this kind of dance album and I know exactly what works. Cause I'm DJing these records and I'm making, you know, collaborations with friends of mine, artists. But when I was younger, I were literally, my first album was called, uh, Florida. It was on, it was on Ninja Tune and it's so weird. Like I remember being And just like so stoned and just fucked up and like making this record and like people still hit me back like that record was a classic. I'm like, what are you talking about? It was like crazy chaos. It was like me just like in my room in Orlando, like trying to figure out how to, I wasn't even, things weren't even in key. Like I'm sampling on this like

• 19:35Speaker 00

  two channel little like a Kai S20 sampler, like the thing worked and um laying things out, like if you know anything about DAWs, like workstations, like they're so complex, like Logic, Ableton. Back then I used something called Cool Edit Pro and there wasn't even like a piano roll or anything. I just had like windows, like Photoshop where you just like, I just layered the loops on top of each other and sequence it in one long window because I couldn't, it was just, it was the worst way to work ever, but I learned this ass backwards way that kind of gave me a little flavor, I guess. But I never was like a a musician, you know, like I never, I never mastered a, an instrument. And I always thought DJing, I never was a good turntableist. Like, I mean, if you put me in my room with like A-Track or like

• 20:17Speaker 00

  DJ Kraz, it's embarrassing. Those guys are like, they're, they're like magicians, you know, but I thought I, I'm the guy with like ideas. And how do I apply those ideas? And it became easy with, as the technology advanced. Like I'm like, oh, these programs make it a lot easier for me. I don't need to like play my MIDI keyboard. I don't need to be Scott Storch, you know, I can just like literally see the audio, Ableton's my favorite, I see audio and I can work with raw audio. It's, it's, my mind works that way. So I think yeah, I'm more of a conceptual person than I am like a, a, like a digital auteur. Even with, even with production, I mean, I always say like Skrillex is like the guy that blew my mind. Like he uses like a computer, like a, like a grand piano. Like he just does, it's the craziest thing he does, you know?

• 20:58Speaker 00

  So I think there's people that are in my generation that are like the savants and I'm, I'm not that, but I, I'm, I kind of mixed my talent for new, new, new sounds and a talent for songwriting to make what, like who I am.

• 21:12Steven Bartlett?

  But but to say that you're you're faking it and I mean, maybe it was a joke, but to describe it as the biggest mistake is

• 21:19Speaker 00

  It might have been talking about DJing, because I mean, literally, it's probably like the most it's people will ask me like how to, you know, like how to do it or what to do. It's such a you can learn it in 10 minutes, like how to do the the technical sides, you know?

• 21:31Speaker 00

  Was I faking that? I mean, no, because at the end of the day, what I think makes DJ special, like I explained earlier, is that you have this, you have to have history. That's what makes it special. I think that's why you have DJ careers in in London, especially. These guys are like David Roddigan, you know, he's like a guy who's like in his like late 60s. I'm hoping I don't age in maybe 70s, but he's been doing this since he was interviewing Bob Marley. Like he's a and he still rocks parties, playing like selecting the perfect records because he has the skill set like he knows exactly. He can read a crowd like southwest London. He can go to Jamaica. He can go to like Italy. He can play the the right songs at the right time. So there's something intrinsically beautiful about, you know, being a DJ. But yeah, some things it feels like I'm faking it. But I mean, even in the beginning, I I faked it to like

• 22:15Speaker 00

  get the get in the studio, you know, that's what I did to like to to have my foot in the door, you know?

• 22:21Steven Bartlett?

  When you are asked about your creative process, I I was looking through the the huge wealth of traveling that you've done. Brazil, India, spent time in London and various parts of the world. How formative is travel and going to these different cultures and understanding the way they do things to what the art you ultimately created? Because when I think about creativity from a marketing standpoint, I see it as like pulling together lots of little pieces to form something new. And you you have, because of your obsession with the vinyls and the musics and the samples, you seem to have this like huge wealth of like artistic reference points to create new stuff from.

• 22:54Speaker 00

  I'm just obsessed with the conversation that's like happening all over the world, like, you know, whether I go to Brazil or are you London's a good example where you have this like? Pan African, Jamaican, Caribbean, and then like, you know, European thing happening that's like drum bass, that's like funky, that's like, now it's drill. Like, there's all these genres that if you look into it, why it exists, you could literally pinpoint the first creators and like where they come from and like, why is it like, why do they make this kind of sound? So I was always like, putting together the equations, like, why are these things happening? And Brazil's been my favorite place to talk about because I was hearing this music, it was called Funk Karaoke for a long time. There's girls that were doing a party in Philly and I remember they gave me a mixtape.

• 23:35Speaker 00

  And it was this like sound that was a mix of Miami bass and samba and like heavy metal because they're screaming songs. There's bass beats, but they're using like these tamborzinho like drums. Yeah, so I was like, what the fuck is this? I like literally couldn't find any information on this music. So I went to, I went to, I went to Brazil and I actually had a magazine fund this trip. It was, it was, it was an article for Fader magazine and I went down there, I met the big DJs and I just became immersed in that scene. You know, producing with some of those guys, learning to produce with them. And moving that sound forward a little bit, I think my first real, real production was with MIA, it was called Lucky Dungun. And it was a, it was a funk record that we did. And remember, we, we actually went back to Brazil and played it at this huge festival and it was like a massive hit in Brazil.

• 24:20Speaker 00

  And actually helped, I think, maybe validate some of the funk music in Brazil because before that it was like a Rio thing and it became like a, all over the country there started making, and now if you go to Brazil, like funk music is the most commercial thing. Back then, 20 years ago, it was like a pretty underground genre. And, um, but yeah, everywhere I go, I'm like, I want to learn more. Once I learned like all the catalog, all the old producers from, you know, jazz, funk and soul and hip hop, then I'm like, the rest of the world is, there's like endless possibilities of where music comes from and what's going on. So I started like venturing out there.

• 24:52Steven Bartlett?

  In terms of your crazy process as well. In two different interviews, I saw you talk about creating music that lasts a lifetime, like really timeless pieces of art. And the question that I had when I saw you say that was like, how do you do that? How do you, how can you even anticipate that a piece of music is going to be timeless? Is there something in the design of it or the inspiration or the story?

• 25:11Speaker 00

  There's, there's a few times I've been in the studio and I'm like, a song I might be working on gives me goosebumps. You know, that, that happens.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  It was like when I did the, we did Justin Bieber's, Where Are You Now? Like something like that, like just was like, whoa, what the hell are we doing? And then like Lean On from Major Laser, that was a record that I've probably spent a one year on the production, you know? Because I did so many different, like, no, this isn't right now. This isn't what's happening right now. This is, I need to do something. As a producer, my job is to predict the future. Like when I release this record, after I make it, it's going to take like three months to actually get to the people. You know, because it's like you needed to go with labels, cleaning the record. It can't just be like, back in the day, I would make an edit and DJ it. And it was like hitting people right up in my little local neighborhood. But a producer's job is literally like, try to like, at least mine, my forte has always been like, how can I do something that's going to be big in like six months or like a year? Like, kind of like being futuristic sounding. Cause that's what the, that's what the greats have always done, you know?

• 26:03Speaker 00

  Prince or Timberland or Pharrell, they've always made records that trend set because they were so futuristic. So my, my goal's always been to follow them, never to follow a trend. And those two records were ones that we did and we're like, yes, this is going to work, even though it's fucking crazy. Or even Upon The Floor, I remember listening to that and driving around in the car. That was a song I did for Major Laser. I remember driving around LA and looking at the guy who produced for me, named Switch. And we were just like, this is, is this going to work? It was so crazy. Like, we were just like, this is so wild. And then, and then, yeah, like four years later, Beyonce sampled that record and it became a massive hit. So there was like, my career's always had these little moments where we do things and then they, the ramifications happen later. You know, you feel the effects, you know, the seeds, like you said.

• 26:45Speaker 00

  But yeah, having classics is important. And I think a couple of times you know when you're, you're in it and you're like, okay, this is, this is worth the time. This is worth the effort because. Learning songwriting with some of the great guys like, you know, Dr. Luke's on my publishing in the beginning. I happened to be in the studio with him and Circuit and a lot of his writers. I was like, man, you've spent three days on like a second verse. Like this is what you do now. That's what pop music is like you literally like, if you think a record is the big record, you just, it's so painstakingly like, like the effort is so concise, like how to make this the best record ever, like everything is like a perfect addition, like an architect, like every little corner of the house has got to be perfect. Right. So I learned that process, which I don't do very often, but when a record is big, I follow through. And then otherwise just do a shit ton of records and one of them is going to be good too.

• 27:30Speaker 00

  That's another process you can do, which also I can do that too. Like just put, you know, randomly I'll put records out and record like on my mind, which is another house record on my album. That was a huge TikTok record, which would never, we've never guessed, like you can't even guess when those records happen.

• 27:45Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah. So because you can't guess when one's going to be a winner and maybe one's not going to catch on. As a creative, do you kind of try and not harm your peace by trying to predict too much what the outcome is going to be? Do you just focus on the process itself? And like, how much can you, can you predict if something's going to be a?

• 28:03Speaker 00

  I mean, there's a lot of like in this, like we're talking about being in the studio. So like I said, there's a process like to making a great record, but there's also like diplomacy when you're in this, when you're a producer, like you have to know the artist, like, you know, Ed Sheeran, do you have an extra record we can try to work on? And then he gives you songwriting and that's how like a record like Cold Water happened was another Bieber song I did. And then you're like, okay, how do, can we ask Bieber's manager? Can you maybe do this record? We'll do a trade for a production now. Okay. Then that deal is in the place. Then, okay, who can play the guitar on this? Oh, you find that person. So sometimes it's literally like being like a an ambassador, like talking to all these people and try to put a record together too. Like, that's another process that I had to learn and that's something else. Like when a record is already done, like you take a song and you dress up the production, you still have to find the, like all the keys to make that record work.

• 28:49Speaker 00

  So it's like every record is a different journey, you know? And now with dance music, I'm literally just in the studio, hearing records and trying to figure out what sound I want to make for a live effect. And then I apply that in the studio. But um, I've literally probably every kind of songwriting you can do, I've, I've, I've done it, you know, from like sitting with acoustic guitar with Madonna to, you know, recording sound, field recordings in a favela or, uh, you know, Paying for studio session for a reggae artist with like my last little bit of money in Philly. Like it's at a, at, um, you know, the root studio and like barely getting a hook. And then it was not even good enough to making something out of that later, you know? Like it's always like, it could be collections of, of vocals or sample packs or everything I've done. You know, I've tried it, you know?

• 29:35Steven Bartlett?

  What's the cost of all of this in terms of on your, maybe cost is a bit of a presumption, but what's the, the sacrifice or the cost in terms of like personal life balance? Because you're obsessed, you've obsessed.

• 29:45Speaker 00

  No, I think I was, I was probably running at like 200 miles an hour till COVID happened. I don't think I would ever take a break and that was probably the best thing that happened. Like when I got with COVID, when the lockdown happened and I couldn't do shows like shit. Let me actually buy a house and let me actually like, you know, like figure out what's my next steps in life. I kind of needed that break. So I was just going to do everything was break next speed, you know? It was like the Grammys this weekend. Oh, you have a session with this person this weekend. Well, we gotta get back on this. I gotta go to Jamaica and do this. It's like everything was happening. I never said no to anybody. I was like, this is crazy. I was like, you know, a musician has the same life as all of us. As athlete, you have like a peak, you know? If you're a linebacker in NFL football, your career is like maybe three or four years. Cause you're getting beat up. A quarterback can play for, you know, till he's 44.

• 30:31Speaker 00

  A producer or artist, like they're just hot for as long as they're hot. And then they have to find, they have to come down. Some of them can just continue to always go there. Like, you know, you have like people that are just always going to be in your mind, like Madonna or, you know, um, some of the big pop stars like Taylor Swift. Every record is going to perform, but a lot of times you'd like on borrowed time. You don't know when your, when your, when your window is going to close. So for me, I was like, I gotta keep going, keep going. And I never, I feel like I never had hit my, my peaks. I was like, let's keep pushing it forward. And eventually I was like, you know what? This isn't that important. Like let me like actually enjoy my life. I have three kids now. I want to like do things, I want to, I want to, you know, explore more, but not think about the work. I want to do things that maybe benefit my, my mind.

• 31:15Speaker 00

  And I think that's kind of what the, the last two years of downtime has given me. Even though I did produce a lot of records in between, it was on my own terms, you know? I wasn't like chasing all the, the live events and I wasn't chasing all the different, uh, successes I could have had.

• 31:29Steven Bartlett?

  And COVID was very much the same experience for me. It's actually why I resigned from my company because I, I actually got to look at my life. It was like when, when I, when I stopped flying. Eight times a month, I got to look at my life and I also got to feel what it was like to slow down and talk to my friends, my family a little bit. When you think about your pre-COVID life, now you've got the hind, the benefit of hindsight and you've had time to pause.

• 31:54Steven Bartlett?

  Were you happy in that phase of your life?

• 31:57Speaker 00

  I was because it's weird. I mean, I was losing touch with other people. I felt that. So I was like very insular, but my life, I run the best, like when it's chaos, when I'm doing 300 shows a year and I'm like getting up and doing the emails and going to the gym. And then I'm like, this is like, I just, I just work under pressure. I don't know what it is. It's like my, my, like my best forte is, is to have chaotic stuff happening all the time. And I'm like, somehow I can get through it. So I, I was into that. And I was like, this is a very unhealthy way to live. So now it feels like I'm back on a promo tour and it feels like I'm back on this like fast track, a fast track. And I'm like, uh, kind of want COVID a little bit, but, but then, you know, it's all part of the process. Cause if you put a record out, it's important for people to hear it, you know? Like you only have one chance

• 32:42Speaker 00

  for records to be released. And it's like, you should give that, if you have a great song, you should give it every opportunity it has to reach people because that's, it's, it's one shot, you know? But don't waste your time on every song. Like you have a good song. I got the song, the song Miguel that we're promoting. I'm like, this song's worth the work, you know? Other songs may be like, yeah, I'll put them out and maybe something will happen. You know, never know. Maybe it's in three months, there'll be like a midget dancing to it on TikTok or something. And like it'd be, it's a crazy experience or something and it goes viral. You never know what's gonna happen. It's like just rolling the dice every time. But every once in a while, there are some steps you can take to ensure a record has its best chance at surviving, you know?

• 33:19Steven Bartlett?

  And that's like what you're doing now, right? Like the promo, putting effort behind it. Um, just so then, so COVID happens, your world kind of grinds to hell, everybody's does. And you probably find yourself in a house somewhere alone.

• 33:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:30Steven Bartlett?

  How's that then in terms of mental health and dealing with the sudden stop?

• 33:35Speaker 00

  I, I think, uh, I mean, the thing that sucked the worst about COVID is I had these children and like, it was a time I was like, man, I could do whatever I want, but there was nothing to do. Like you couldn't go to, in LA, we closed the parks for so long. We closed, like there was no school, like, you know, there's no birthday parties. You can't go see other kids. Like it was kind of like, it's almost like a, a waste of opportunity. I had like a whole year to be with my kids. And I was like, what do we even find time to do? I was like, I buy a house, basketball courts in the house, just play basketball. Like it was like literally I made an environment for them to enjoy life.

• 34:06Speaker 00

  But I think, honestly, I've been doing this for so long and I've made a really great team around me. Like I have these great women that like, that always work with me and like work for me. And I think it just feels like it's a big family like now, you know, like people like it's a team. Whether it's like on my management side or just like my personal side. It's like I have a people that are always looking in my best interests. And I think I got lucky, I was, I've been doing that since day one. Like my first manager worked for me for free for the first year. Cause he just like believes in what I did. I was like, I don't need a manager. I was making so much money before I paid taxes, like just selling mixtapes and DJing. Like I was like, I bought a, I bought a property in Philadelphia. Like in my first year of like learning how to hustle the system of, of being a DJ. And then I was like, damn, but there's, he was like, there's, there's more to be done though.

• 34:50Speaker 00

  Like he's like, there's more you can do than just living in Philly and like buying, being the biggest DJ here. And I think he gave me that, that motivation to like be bigger. And from him, you know, another management group happened and then I've had a lucky journey. I've been the same with the same team for, you know, 20 years.

• 35:05Steven Bartlett?

  Wow.

• 35:05Speaker 00

  A lot of people don't get that, but I also think I was very visionary in what I want to do. So if you're like a young person, like you get sucked up by management or whatever, they might have a vision for you or they might not, or they might not have the right vision for you, or they might not give you the room to be yourself. Then you're going to switch like 40 managers and you might not ever find, you know, the success you need. So it's important to find people, you know, that really believe in you, but also let you be yourself. Because you gotta find that, because you're gonna be, that's all you got at the end of the day. You can lose a million managers, a million people, but you can always start over and just be you.

• 35:37Steven Bartlett?

  Reminded me of the Avicii documentary that I saw, which was a real pivotal moment in my life. Cause yeah, so I spent four weeks at home in 2019 and I was very much being dragged around. We had a thousand employees, so I was being dragged around the place. And that documentary taught me the importance of saying no to stuff.

• 35:52Speaker 00

  A hundred percent. Like Avicii, I feel like I never, his, he was probably like one of my biggest influences, even though he was younger than me. I remember hanging out with him a couple of times. I was just like, man, this guy. This guy's a genius, but like he doesn't feel like he's in his own skin, you know? Cause I don't think he ever had that chance to be who he be, be, be what he wanted to be. He was like, he was almost like a, became like a machine because his success would happen so quick. But that happens a lot. That's like the one story in the DJ world, but in the pop world, that happens like way too much, I think.

• 36:22Steven Bartlett?

  Are you good at saying your stuff?

• 36:24Speaker 00

  No, I say yes to everything, but I'm also like, I have really thick skin. I feel like my personality is enormous. I can also like, I can, I can find my way through things. I always say yes, then I'll say no for the next time if it sucks. But I've done everything, you know, and I'm like, uh, you know, this isn't the right thing. I'm, I move on. Or even if it's a studio session, I might go get breakfast and I might never come back, you know? Whatever it is, I'll, I'll give everything a chance, you know? But, uh, I know, I know now some things, you know, my management knows me now to where they, some things don't even get to me. The, the questions don't even come because they know it's like a no, or they know I'll say yes and it was a bad, it'll be a bad yes.

• 36:59Steven Bartlett?

  Thick skin. You started talking a lot about mental health over the last couple of years. Your partnership with Calm as well, I was reading about, um, mental health in the DJing world, but mental health amongst men anyway. What's your journey been with your own mental health?

• 37:12Speaker 00

  I think, you know, just being put as like, uh, you know, whatever celebrity or whatever it is, being attention, attention always on you. Is you're going to have so many critics and you're going to have so many, you know, the love is cool, but nobody really cares about like all the adoration you get. You care about the people that don't like you and that you get caught up in that, even if it's only like five percent. But they really want to be vocal about they don't like you or they don't love you. Uh, that bothers you no matter who are, who you are, you know? Eventually I had to just like, wow, these people suck. Like just whatever you're gonna, it's, you're never going to get away from those, the people that like, want to always be critics, you know? They just want to get a rise out of you. I think eventually you just gotta say. Fuck it. The people that are around me, their opinion is what matters. Like the people that I trust.

• 37:57Speaker 00

  And you can't like kind of sit in the opinion of people that don't either don't know you or maybe build an opinion about you from, you know, whatever it is. Cause when it comes to social media, it's like a game, you know, it's not like you, it's, it's, I was talking about Conor McGregor earlier today. I'm like, he's like the biggest heel, most paid athlete last year, even though he didn't fight because he's like, people love to hate him. You know, so he built a brand out of just being that person. But you gotta take it with, you gotta take the good and the bad with it. I mean, if you, if you want to be in this business, which is like, I guess show business, like you said, the comedians, the DJs. I'm like, kind of like a, a popular DJ. I'm more like a, like a, people might go to my shows and not even know my music because they know my brand. And that kind of sucks because they don't, and you don't, you don't know, they don't know what they're gonna get.

• 38:40Speaker 00

  But um, because I'm on that pedestal, you're just gonna get eyes on you for everything. So I feel like you just have to, if you want, if you want the success, if you want to be at this level, you gotta like, just take it. And if I didn't want it, I would just back up, you know, but I can take it. So I feel like it's something that I had to learn to grow into myself and just be like, okay. Be comfortable because what really matters is my team, you know, who, my family thinks about me, what my team thinks about me. And I think that's, those people will give you that motivation to go every day.

• 39:08Steven Bartlett?

  Have you made a conscious effort to like shorten that circle by like logging off? I, I read somewhere that someone else has your Twitter password now and you don't really have it. And have you made a conscious effort?

• 39:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, I haven't been on Twitter in like five years, but I think yeah, it kind of sucks. I hit and miss because I mean, even TikTok, I was like slow to do that. But then, like I said, if you want your, if you want your, your brand to exist, it's gotta be there. Like, cause that's like, you know, there's more eyeballs on TikTok than there are on YouTube nowadays. So you really, you have to be part of that conversation with the, with the audience.

• 39:39Speaker 00

  It took me a while. Like I had to find people that actually could help me run that because I couldn't do it myself and I couldn't be, you know, in every day long, like videotaping and doing dances or whatever. So I had to find different ways to make those things work for myself. It wasn't easy in the beginning, but uh, yeah, I don't stay on, I don't stay on social too much, but then of course during this album cycle, I'm on there and I'm like, having to always participate, but you know, luckily I think I've got great fans. I've got great people that get great response to my album. It wasn't that difficult, but. Every once in a while, you have to get, you have to take your mind off it because you can get caught up, you know?

• 40:13Steven Bartlett?

  What, what made you start talking about mental health and being a bit of an advocate for that? You said that a lot of people should speak about it a lot more. Where did that inspiration come from?

• 40:19Speaker 00

  I think probably after the Avicii situation and then, you know, I work with a lot of rappers. I think I had a hip hop album that came out like two years ago, three years ago, maybe four years ago. It's called California and I had Lil Xan and I had Lil Peep on it and I had, um, Trippie Redd and I had, I was working with XXXTentation. I just remember I did this whole circuit, working with all these young rappers and they were like really young. They were like nineteen, twenty and the studio sessions were so weird and crazy. And then these, these rappers all started to die. Like they all started like, you know, Lil Peep overdosed on opiates and, you know, X was, was shot. But he also had such a crazy vision on life and experiences and his, he was like, went through so much.

• 41:02Speaker 00

  And I saw, I saw what was happening to these young guys because they were getting so popular so quick. And I was really, I just, I just like, damn, these guys all need like a big brother. So I think just with those guys, a lot of them, I was helping them out, making decisions. But just seeing how crazy it is to be a twenty year old right now is, is much more difficult than when I was there. You know, when I was there, you literally had your group of friends and that's all you knew, the people on your street. Now everybody knows who you are or can know you, who you are, or have, have some kind of opinion about you. And I think you have to find ways to, like I said earlier, block that out and just concentrate on like being the best you, which just sounds like a cliche, but you really have to compete with just yourself every day, not everybody else.

• 41:44Steven Bartlett?

  One of the things that I saw in that Avicii doc as well was he was suffering with pretty severe anxiety. I, I remember the scenes of him being in that hotel room and his manager saying, we've got to go and him saying, I, I'm not going.

• 41:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:53Steven Bartlett?

  Have you ever felt that anxiety? Have you ever felt that, that kind of crippling?

• 41:57Speaker 00

  No, I think, you know. I deal like people like close to my life have anxiety and they have a tax law and I have to talk them down sometimes. So I know how it feels and that's just like in the day to day life. Me, I feel like I still like the stage. I've never been and I've also, like I said, I've also made a concerted effort to make the team like make me comfortable, you know, that each documentary, I'm not going to talk about like the people on the team, but like they just like, they just didn't care. Like no one cared about him or what he was feeling. I remember being at shows and I was like, he played before me in Vegas and he would be just missing. He would play like two hours later and he would have to get fucked up to get on stage because he just couldn't do it. He couldn't be up there. He couldn't be on a pedestal. And I feel, I can feel that way sometimes.

• 42:40Speaker 00

  Like on this tour, you know, just jet lag alone. You're like, you're like nodding out at dinner and you're like, I gotta go be excited for this crowd. And I'm really good at like making that work for myself now. So these people owe, you know, I owe them this experience. But yes, I take a lot more time for myself now. Like I'm like, I don't just, I don't need to do these anymore. I'm telling them like, this is, this is over for me. This is like something I would do three years ago. It's important to, to take that, that away, that out of the equation. I'll feel a lot better. But yeah, you gotta make those personal choices and you gotta, like I said, people that are, that are hungry, like me and you, that just, that when they get on the train, they're just like going full throttle. You do need something to say like, okay, it's, it's okay to like not go a hundred miles an hour all the time. You can like go like at a, at a strolling pace or something.

• 43:24Steven Bartlett?

  And I guess for you, from what I read, a lot of that was your kids as well, right?

• 43:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:27Steven Bartlett?

  When, when, when your first child was born, you talked about that being a really pivotal moment. It taught you that time, the amount of time and.

• 43:33Speaker 00

  I think my first kid, when I had my first son, Lockett, I just, I was like, I went, I actually went faster. So I was like, I did. I was like, also as a father, your kids, I was like, I found a connection with my sons when I was, they were like five and four years old and they were like, because really the mother is like everything. They're not leaving her sight. They're not around. They're not, they don't really give a shit about like their fathers. I felt like that in the beginning of my son. But so I was like, I got a kid now. My life's about to get really complicated and I, I think all my, my best work happened around then because you said time management was like, okay, I have like Saturday, Sunday or have like Wednesday off. I'm going to go to the studio for 16 hours every other day because I don't want to do anything else. This is the time I have. Like those five years I did all the, my biggest records. And my next son was born and my time got even crazier. And then, um.

• 44:19Speaker 00

  You just kind of like, like I said, you got to manage time better each time. Like you gotta, gotta figure out how to make it work. I'm still figuring it out, you know? Now my boys are entering like the teenage years, like they're eleven, seven. So they're asking me questions now that they never would before. Like I'm like having to give them like, you know, boy and man advice, which I was like, this is cool. And I'm having conversations that I can relate to them as much as they can relate to me. Before it was like we'd just baby shark and Legos and stuff.

• 44:48Steven Bartlett?

  When you, I'm talking about your three boys, when you, you did this really sweet post, um, giving a bit of a shout out to their mothers. And in that sentence, you said, I'm still a work in progress. And I was really intrigued by that. Why did you say, I'm still a work in progress as it relates to a post about the, the mothers and your boys?

• 45:05Speaker 00

  I think because, you know, my, my boys, I want them to, to, I want them, like, I want to instill them in the same discipline that my father's given me. You know, which I don't, I don't know how to do that. Like, I don't think my father knew either. Like he had, I remember going to my father's rooms and he had like books about like being the best dad. You know, like, I remember like, I was like, I was like, I think about so a lot of hours later, I'm like, damn, maybe I should check that book out. You know, like, I'm like, it seemed silly when I was younger, but I think being the person I am, I'm also like this, like, like I said, my personality is so big that I feel like I s- I'm kind of alpha even for my children. Like, I'm like, when I, when I'm off break, I'm like, let's go snowboarding, let's go to the basketball court. And they're just like, dad, relax. Like we want to watch TV or something, you know, I'm like, and I'm like, why don't they want to do all this stuff with me?

• 45:48Speaker 00

  Like, I don't know, I'm like, they think I'm like the crazy person that comes over and like, takes them away to do crazy stuff all the time. And it's like, it's a big distraction in their life a lot of times. So I've, that's got to figure out how to like be with them, you know, more than just be their insane sports dad. I gotta like be their, their, their friend too. So that's like what I'm talking about, things like that, when you, you know, just even like sitting with my son. My seven year old and like watching cartoons or watching him play Minecraft on his iPad is so much more important to him. If I do that for an hour than like take him on like a trip to Nepal or something, which I've done, you know, like it's like they're like, they remember that, but they actually remember this time and on the couch with me a lot more, I feel like.

• 46:27Steven Bartlett?

  The other thing that we were talking about just then is this, um, just came to mind is when I had Olympians on this podcast, they talked to me about this thing called gold medal depression and Israel Adesanya came here, the UFC champion, um, two weeks ago. And he said that the worst day of his life was the day after he won.

• 46:43Speaker 00

  The belt?

• 46:43Steven Bartlett?

  The belt.

• 46:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:44Steven Bartlett?

  He said he went straight into therapy and I, I saw a similar tone and a similar narrative when you spoke about, in fact, some of the worst days are the day after the high.

• 46:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:54Steven Bartlett?

  And then you, you actually said that you have to kind of suppress the high.

• 46:58Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 46:58Steven Bartlett?

  To avoid the low.

• 46:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, always. Cause I feel like it gets addicting because I mean, like Israel, he only, he does like, what, like two big fights a year. Like I'm like doing like, which is not gonna, because he'll be the fucking amazing, but, um, I have to do like 250 like shows, you know, like sometimes and every night might be bigger. Some nights might be lame. You gotta just take it as stride. Every once in a while, I'm like, damn, that was awesome. And I'm like, appreciate the like, you have to have gratitude for that. But I mean, if it's gonna be your lifestyle every night, people are always like, you don't drink or you're DJing? I'm like, I'm DJing like 200 nights a year. I can't be drunk. I'll be dead. Like it's like, it's like, I don't know. It's like not even, why are you even asking that question? It's like, this is still a job for me. I found ways to like have energy and like have this feeling and like, it's like, it's actually, I think it's mental work to do that.

• 47:45Speaker 00

  But you always, if you're just gonna be like in these peaks and valleys all the time, that's not healthy. And I see a lot of people that are other creators and it's crazy, but like the best creators are really like have bipolar tendencies. I've noticed that like some of my, my favorite people I collaborate with, I've, I've noticed they have, and some of them aren't addressing it. And it's like, it leads to. Their failures in some parts, I always see like, I think my, the most creative people like have, are always dealing with that, you know? Either whether it was Bowie or other DJs, like I see that a lot in my peers. And I think it's important to, because they love that high too, they're chasing that high, like that experience, you know? It's just like a drug, like having like fans, you know, scream being at a festival, but eventually you just kind of like drown out the noise and just figure out,

• 48:30Speaker 00

  just make it more of a job, because you can't just live like, every night's like the biggest party of your life, you know? Because then it will be, there's gonna be a big downer.

• 48:39Steven Bartlett?

  And you've changed yourself, you said you've changed yourself to be like present and energetic without letting the adrenaline fill your body and then staying up till seven AM.

• 48:47Speaker 00

  Also, yeah, it's hard, it's hard to sleep, you know, like when you do a show, like I'm leaving Vegas, I'm doing like it's a great party, we like do one to three AM and I'm like, have a little vibe after the show and then it's like, damn, I gotta go to Vegas, I gotta be up at nine and take my kids, I'm like, how do you like wind down? Because that's really hard to do too.

• 49:03Steven Bartlett?

  I had the tiniest dose of this, we took this podcast, we made it a musical and we did three nights at the Palladium. And then, so I started going to sleep at seven AM, so I'd come off stage at the Palladium, maybe midnight, come back here and I'd sit here at the table, just like.

• 49:16Speaker 00

  It's impossible, that's why I'm not even touching this coffee.

• 49:18Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 49:18Speaker 00

  I'm like, I'm like, you know.

• 49:20Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:20Speaker 00

  So you have to literally, I think you have to take in strides, you know, because there's always gonna be, I think, I think deep down inside of me, if I like lose all of the, if I, label drop me, I couldn't make music anymore, I'm not DJing, I don't really, you know, like I flop so hard. I feel like I can start over again. That's like something I feel inside me, like maybe I would be like, I love furniture, maybe I'll be a carpenter. Whatever it is, that's just the thing I'm saying, I just feel like, I feel like, or pizza maker, whatever it is, I always feel like, if you have that feeling inside you that you can lose everything and be okay with it, that's, maybe that's a key to success. Then you know it's, all this is just like a facade, like it's really like, I'll be comfortable as long as I get to do something I love again. It doesn't have to be huge, I'll be rich, but I feel like any moment if I got taken away,

• 50:06Speaker 00

  I have my family, I have my kids and I'm, I'll gladly go and do something with them and. I live a humble life. I always feel like I'm that's I'm I'm ready for that, you know?

• 50:16Steven Bartlett?

  And your new album, this is what twenty years into your career now? And it's your it's your second full length

• 50:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 50:22Steven Bartlett?

  album since like Florida?

• 50:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's that's happened because uh once I started going to this to the studio in L A, I was like this, you don't make solo albums like Florida, you make albums for other people. You know, I'm just a DJ. I'm like a this brand is limited to some a level. But if I work on Britney Spears album, well, I can make this much money, or I can make a hit that streams like this, or if I do this album. And it wasn't until I think we did Major Lazer, I was like, okay, well, at least I can own this project, also make the same size records and take all of it, you know, that became kind of like just the business side of it. I was like, this is a lot better, you know, now. And this, I think finally Diplo is the point where like, okay, I have no other brands to put it in. This is gonna be my records now. Kind of like, that's kind of how this album happened. Because I still it's a dance album, but I worked on it

• 51:09Speaker 00

  as a songwriter, you know, because you hear the songs. They got verse, chorus, verse, they're not straight techno records, they're not straight acid records, they're just like, they're kind of built like pop records.

• 51:20Steven Bartlett?

  Twenty years in, um, releasing this album, what are you sick of? In the process, in the industry, what are you just like, I hate this shit?

• 51:29Speaker 00

  Uh, I think going through Heathrow's, like, uh, the liquids, come on, like, what is up with that? If I could not travel ever again, that was, I mean, I literally had to spend like thirty minutes there yesterday, because like, I was like, they were looking for this one tiny eye cream that was in the bottom of a freaking, I was like, bro, you can have all the stuff, just take it, take it away from me. But the the travel is the worst, you know, I wish I could teleport to each show, but uh yeah, that's probably the worst thing. If I could just not, if I could just sit home. Also, I got a really nice house now in Malibu, so I'm like, don't want to go on tour anymore. I kind of want to sit there. I love I love the when I was on Twitch. I was DJing, I didn't make any money.

• 52:09Speaker 00

  But uh, it was it's cool. I've been to Europe in three years, so it's, you know, it's actually feels brand new to me. In this in this line of work, the whole audience changes like every three years, too. Like kids that were ravers and go to clubs when they're twenty four, when they're twenty seven, they got full time jobs and their little cousins have it. I've done like it's twenty, I've done like seven of those generations, I feel like, and they're still coming out and seeing me play, so I've been really lucky.

• 52:33Steven Bartlett?

  Based on the life you've lived, when your three boys get to, you know, sixteen, eighteen years old, and they come to you and say, That I need advice on like what I should pursue, how do I become successful?

• 52:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:42Steven Bartlett?

  What is the general advice? Is there anything that stands out to you or is it just?

• 52:45Speaker 00

  Man, I will take them on the road with me, I guess. That's the only thing I can do. That's the best, that's the best advice I can give them. Be like, this is what I do every day, just so you know. You think I'm like doing some crazy shit. I actually have to wake up, go to the gym, have to go. We're doing some press and promo, then I have to get ready for the show. We're gonna do dinner with the promoter as a nice favor and we're gonna go to the concert. Oh, there's appearance afterwards. This is what I do and I go back in the morning and I'm going to the studio first thing in the morning. Just to show them what it take, what it takes like, and this is like, you know, 10 years in, just to let them know it's, what the process is like. That's the best I can do. I can actually show them that, you know, a lot of kids wouldn't have that, wouldn't have their parents to give them something like that.

• 53:23Speaker 00

  But yeah, that's what, I, I trained with George Foreman Jr. He's a, he's a boxing trainer and his father, he said that he didn't really understand anything about life till his father took him to the, on the road to see him fight and took him to like the gym sessions and how much work he did. And I was in the middle of like George's like, uh, the griddle he was doing. The Foreman grill era. And, um, he said it just like, something clicked inside of him. It changed him inside.

• 53:45Steven Bartlett?

  Why the gym? You've mentioned that twice, is that a big?

• 53:46Speaker 00

  Oh, because I think I just, I actually, every day I have to go to the gym. It's like the one thing that I have to do to like, make me feel like normal. Because I, the jet lag for one, but then I also traveling and then I think I need like an hour. If it's yoga, if it's something, I just need like to sweat for an hour every day to feel normal. I don't know what it is, but it's been like that for like the last 10 years. It's not a very healthy lifestyle. I mean, I don't drink very often, but this COVID got me into drinking again because it was a little bit boring to go to eat dinner every night. So I think I'm, I'm in, I'm trying to reset that a little bit.

• 54:20Steven Bartlett?

  When someone's obsessive and they achieve success and they're flying 300, they have 300 shows a year. I, I can't, it's an inconceivable number in my mind.

• 54:29Steven Bartlett?

  Their relationships in terms of their romantic relationships, like how on earth does one maintain good romantic relationships when they're that obsessed?

• 54:37Speaker 00

  I've had, I mean, It's it's it's been hard. I had a girlfriend during the covid times and she was like great energy. She understood my life. Really, you got to understand your lifestyle because it's it's so fast paced. Also, you're gonna be, it's about you. It's like you're the you're the artist, right? It's like, and when I was dating people that were in the music industry in the beginning, I didn't understand at all, like that they're two different people. One's the person that I know, and then one's the artist, you know, because that's a whole facade. Like you want to see them on stage, you go see them do this. It's not the person that you see in the bedroom at the end of the night or whatever. It's different. And I couldn't figure out, I couldn't figure that out as a young person, like, and that's why I don't I don't think it's probably not that healthy to date someone else that's also in the music business, because it's like, really, it's like

• 55:21Speaker 00

  smoke and mirrors a lot between what they're doing, what they what their what their shows are like, and who they are as a person, and who they are as a as like an artist is different. Do you value that? Do you value romantic connection? Is it a big priority? Yeah, I do. I have, I think, you know, I have two mothers of my children, and like finding the balance with them has been like the hardest thing, but it's like so great now. It's like so peaceful, like they, everybody's in like, everybody loves each other, and like, my kids are all happy, and the mothers are happy, and everybody's healthy. That was been, and then, you know, if I have a new girlfriend, I brought her into the mix, and they liked her, too. It was like, so I've like, found this kind of harmony in it, you know, but um, there's always turbulence, you know, having a we're having a fight now, like

• 56:04Speaker 00

  with school, my son goes to high school, so I have to like, navigate that problem. There's like new problems all the time, you know, never you're never gonna figure everything out. Are you difficult to be in a relationship with? Uh, I think no, because I'm literally like, I'm down, I'm just whatever, I'm along for the ride. I'm like, whatever, but then, of course, I have these kind of Scorpio tendencies. I have like zero emotions, so like, it's hard to really. Zero and zero emotion? Yeah, there's like, nothing. You're gonna get nothing from me most of the time. I feel like, yeah. So a lot of girls, they but if you spend enough time with me, you know the real me, but I think it's, it takes a while. You're gonna get nothing from me most of the time in terms of emotions? Yeah, I'm really emotionless. Emotionlessness, I feel like I don't I don't show a lot of emotion, you know, I'm kind of like, I think maybe it's like for my dad, I'm just like.

• 56:50Speaker 00

  Like an army guy, you know, I'm like out here just like saving face, like poker face. I'm always like, it's hard to get through my exterior.

• 56:58Steven Bartlett?

  Is that a good thing, do you think, for like in terms of mental health?

• 57:01Speaker 00

  It's just, yeah, I mean, I found people that could deal with it, you know? Probably not a good thing, no. But it's been like that. I think that's also the thing you have to put on to be, like I said, be in this world too. Like to, to like, it's, it's definitely something to protect me, but at the same time.

• 57:19Speaker 00

  You know, if you get the right person, you, you, you give her everything.

• 57:23Steven Bartlett?

  I sat here with Patrice Evra. He's the, you're a football fan, you're an Arsenal fan, right? So Patrice Evra was the, the famous Manchester United left back. And he said something similar to me. He said he grew up on the streets of France, drug dealing. His, he watched his brothers in his house die from drug overdoses in the, in the bathroom. And then his head teacher at the time, like sexually molested him. So he put up this, and to survive on the streets of France at the time, he put up this big kind of external outer wall, tough skin, as you might have called it. And that served him to becoming a, a, an elite athlete. It served him to a point. And then one day his girl turned to him on the sofa and said, are you happy? And he was like, fight back. Yeah, I'm happy.

• 58:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:00Steven Bartlett?

  But then she kept insisting, right? Like angrily, right? That, that defense. And then she kept insisting. And he just broke down and he'd never told anybody what had happened to him with his headmaster. And he told her at like thirty five years old. And he said to me while he was sat here, that journey of like opening up and not being the tough guy anymore actually changed his life. It changed his relationship with his kids. It meant that he finally talked about how he felt for the first time, even though it made him feel vulnerable. And that's why I asked the question, is it, is it a good thing like to be?

• 58:28Speaker 00

  You know, I'm, I'm, I think I'm, I'm very selfish because at the end of the day, I'm never lonely on the road. And I think it's because I've never fell in love with a girl. Like I never felt like, ah, this is love. Cause if, if it was love, it's love. I think the love is like love, like you. I mean, I had my heart broken. Maybe I was in love a little bit, but like, I never felt like life changing love until my son was born. And then I was like, that, the love I have with my, my first born son and then my second, my third, it's like the connection though, I'm like, damn, no matter what, this kid stuck with me. Like this is like my life partner for real. Like this is like somebody that I have to make this person a better human. Like that was something that, when that happened, it became like my go to, like I, I'm always gonna, this is the, this is the person that I care the most about. All, all three of these boys.

• 59:11Speaker 00

  It really, that was the first time I understood love was when I had children, you know? Maybe that sounds weird to you, but it just feels like that's undeniable. Like, no matter what they do, I'm gonna love them, like, you know?

• 59:22Steven Bartlett?

  Do you believe in love romantically?

• 59:24Speaker 00

  Maybe, maybe not. Maybe I don't, I don't have it. I mean, I'm still like playing the game. Like, I'm still, you know, like, you know, trying to find a great woman to settle down with.

• 59:35Steven Bartlett?

  Our previous guests always write a question for the next guest. And then funnily enough, I never tell the guest who the previous person was. He wrote a question for you, didn't know who he was writing it for. He, he wrote, um, why do you exist?

• 59:46Speaker 00

  Maybe it is to bring joy and inspiration to people. And maybe, you know, and some, in, maybe new music and exploration into culture, I hope. And then in like a more spiritual way, it is to just add something to the world that wasn't there before. Because everything you create, the fabric of time and space is something that's brand new. And that's what we, that's only what we add. Those are the three answers.

• 1:00:18Steven Bartlett?

  Amen. Thank you so much. And thank you for, for coming here. Your new album Diplo, which me and my girlfriend sat on this table a couple of days ago, listening to. It's remarkable that someone 20 years into their career can create a project that feels so fresh and relevant and exciting at the same time. I honestly, I, I played the record for my girlfriend. We were going through the record.

• 1:00:35Speaker 00

  Did you guys do it podcasts?

• 1:00:36Steven Bartlett?

  No, no, we, we, we were eating dinner here and I was like, oh, I was like Diplo's coming in. And so I started playing the new records in the album and she's from France and Portugal. She lives in Indonesia. She goes, I know that one. She goes, I know that one. Cause a lot of the singers. Yeah, well, yeah. And it was, and I, I literally had to check the year in which the album had dropped because they, the, the songs felt so familiar.

• 1:00:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:57Steven Bartlett?

  And, and that really took me off guard, but um.

• 1:00:59Speaker 00

  I'll be honest, we added a couple of tracks that are already out.

• 1:01:01Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah. I get to from the view numbers.

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  I think the streams go up first week a little bit, but uh.

• 1:01:06Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:06Speaker 00

  But um, there's, there's, they're, they're part of the project. I mean, I had, I got really lucky here in the UK. I had this song with Paul Wolford called Looking For Me that was like so big here. I was so, it was like my, my, probably my biggest solo record. I've ever had in anywhere was that was like number one Ireland, I think it was number two here. But um, I feel like the UK really, if anything, the dance culture, they understand it, like they get it. It's been a while. You guys have like real dance projects like, you know, Chemical Brothers, Chase's Status, Bicep Disclosure. You have like the idea of like dance projects, which we don't have in America. We just have like a bunch of like scummy DJs going out every night and playing in Las Vegas. But we're trying to build it. I think it's important. But here you guys have this culture. It's amazing.

• 1:01:47Steven Bartlett?

  Well, thank you for blessing us with another project. And it's legendary that it's so resonant 20 years into your career. So it's really, really inspiring. Thank you for being here.

• 1:01:54Speaker 00

  Yes, sir. Thank you.

• 1:01:54Steven Bartlett?

  Huge pleasure. Thank you.