154: What You NEED To Know About Being Friends with An Ex, FWB and Dating A Friend

In this episode of the Sabrina Zohar Show, Sabrina explores the complexities of non-platonic friendships, diving into the truth behind friends with benefits, situationships, and the challenges of dating a close friend. Sabrina shares her personal experiences, backed by research and psychology, to give you practical advice on navigating these relationship dynamics. Tune in to learn how to navigate these complex relationships with confidence and clarity. Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course HERE! If you've ever felt like you're too much, not enough, or always chasing validation in dating or relationships, the Self Love Course gives you the tools to rebuild your worth from the inside out HERE! Do you feel like your emotions run the show and react in ways you can’t control? Join the Nervous System 101: Navigating the Unknowns In Early Dating from Sabrina and Masha Kay HERE! Struggling with a breakup? Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course from Sabrina and Britt Frank HERE! Get Ad free HERE! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Get merch for The Sabrina Zohar Show HERE! Don't forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on Instagram and Sabrina on TikTok! Video now available on YOUTUBE! Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formerly known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A. Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Somebody asked me how I define myself and I didn't know what to say because how can someone be defined when we're always evolving? I've been so many things. I'll be so many others. Because identity is not a performance, it's an exploration. Never the same, but always myself. That's the paradox. Paradox intense and the new sweet chemistry by Prada.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  Life is all about making decisions. Sometimes you make questionable ones, like buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronics store employee was a little too good at their job. Then sometimes you make great ones, like protecting your home and auto with Progressive. You get customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states.

• 0:59Sabrina Zohar?

  Hello, hello, hello. And welcome to another episode of The Sabrina Zohar Show. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am your host, my babies. We're back, we're back. And today we're doing friendship part duh, but this is the non-platonic friendship episode and I am going to be doing so many more different episodes. Like I want us to evolve, not everything on the planet is anxious and avoidant, anxious and avoidant. We have got to grow and evolve. So we're going to do that and we're going to talk about friends with benefits, friendships, do you stay friends after situation chips? What, all of the stuff, all of the non-platonic friendship stuff. So guys, as always, if you need anything, everything will be in the link in bio. If you want to join one of the courses, work one-on-one, ask a question, whatever you guys need, there's some free guides in there, it's sabrina zohar.com. All those resources are available, whatever you guys need, please know they're there.

• 1:44Sabrina Zohar?

  And we are just so grateful. And as always, guys, thank you for showing up as you and allowing me to show up as me. So baby, without further ado, let's get right on into it, shall we? Hello, friends. I'm excited. I love our non-traditional episodes and I really want to hit on the pain points, the questions you guys asked. As always, if you guys don't follow the Sabrina Zohar Show on Insta, that's where I ask you guys questions. So if you want to participate in some of the episodes, when I say like an audience question is this, feel free, anytime I do a question. Box you guys can send it in or of course in the trenches at Sabrina's OR dot com. If you guys have episode ideas, questions, you want us in screenshots, profile, whatever you guys need, don't forget. And as always, we have ad free. Some of you guys have had issues with connecting your accounts. Please email us if you're having any issues and we just want you to know that these resources are there. You don't have to do anything you don't want to.

• 2:29Sabrina Zohar?

  But before we start, I really quickly wanted to just touch on something that I read every review and every single solitary comment. You guys might not think I do, but I do. And it hurts and breaks my heart when I sense and feel that maybe there's a disconnect between the content and what I'm putting out there and the way that it's being received. I get so many beautiful comments and so many beautiful reviews and I'm so grateful. And then there's always the one. And there's been this recently where I've been getting, kind of feels like the same person perhaps, but just this, I don't like your tone and I don't like the way you're making me feel. And so I want to first take accountability and ownership. If I've ever had a way, a tonality, a way and whatever it is that has made you feel shitty, I have, that's never been my intention and I sincerely apologize if anything I've

• 3:13Sabrina Zohar?

  ever done has ever made anybody feel in a specific way. But it's also part of the conversation that if my tone doesn't work for you, that is also okay. That doesn't mean I'm bad, you're good, or that you're bad and I'm good. That doesn't mean that anybody is right or wrong. And I just wanted everybody to know, I'm here and the reason I do all of this is because I genuinely care about you guys. It's not for the money. Trust me, I don't make that much. It's not because I have nothing else to do with my time. I genuinely give a flying fuck about every single person that listens, that engages, that comes, that is here. And if this is no longer your place, that's okay. I am so grateful for any time that you spent, but I just want you guys to know, I take this shit really seriously. And so I so appreciate all the comments, all the reviews, but if you have something to say, feel free to email us. I am happy to talk directly if you guys ever need anything.

• 3:55Sabrina Zohar?

  I just want to remind that we are here to speak with kindness and love. And again, if my tone doesn't work, that's okay, but I'm not here to change who I am to make everybody else more comfortable. But that doesn't mean that I'm a mean girl or that I'm doing anything out of malice or I'm hurting anybody. That just might mean that maybe we're not for each other and that is more than okay. So I wanted to take a quick second to just acknowledge that I hear you, I see you guys and I get it. If I'm not for you, that's okay. I'm never going to change your mind, but I- Also want to just clarify and take any accountability and ownership on my part, that that was never my intention. And I'm so grateful for anybody that is here, and I thank you guys. I am doing everything I can to show up for me too, to have my back, to be here for me. And that also includes standing up for myself if I feel like I need, and also apologizing when I feel like I need. So, just wanted to talk about that.

• 4:40Sabrina Zohar?

  But today, let's talk about the elephant in the room, that nobody seems to want to address, that most of your friendships with the opposite sex aren't actually friendships. And I know, you're gonna tell me about that like the one fucking friend that you have from college who's just a friend, but statistically speaking, one of you has thought about sleeping with the other, is keeping you as a backup or an option, or secretly hoping for more. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just human nature. The problem is when we pretend that these dynamics don't exist, and then we act shocked when things get messy. And here's what's interesting. 68% of couples do end up starting as friends first, but that doesn't mean you should force a friendship as a strategy. That's not what I'm saying. It's not like, you know, I've seen it where people will be like, "Oh, I don't want you to touch me or kiss me because I want to start off as friends first." No, no, no, don't force it, right? If you meet somebody on a dating app, well, you're probably not gonna start off as friends. But I also think that there is an element of reality here,

• 5:25Sabrina Zohar?

  that friendship is incredibly important. And what it means is that when romantic feelings develop naturally with an existing connection, it often works out, that's what the statistic is telling us. But when you manufacture these gray situations and areas, that's when the wheels fall off the fucking car. And we're gonna talk about those gray areas, because I have DMs full of friends with benefits, dating long-term friends, staying with an ex, situation chips, because honestly, the messiest relationships, they are not the ones that are clearly romantic or clearly platonic. They're the ones that we have stuck in the middle when nobody actually knows what the fuck is happening. And that's why I wanted to talk today. I'm gonna, like I said, I'm gonna do more friendship episodes. If you guys like the friendship, the work, the family, the colleagues, the non-romantic, let me know, babies. And as always, if you need anything, don't forget, we have the courses that help. The Self-Love Corp helps with everything, it's not just romantic. But, I got you, babies, and we're gonna do more.

• 6:10Sabrina Zohar?

  I'm gonna create more stuff, so. Let's start with the biggie. I wanna start with the friends with benefits, because despite what the movies tell you, this rarely works for the people the way that you think it is. So, I actually pulled some new statistics for this episode, because I really do, like I said, I want to evolve the conversation, I want to talk about different things. So, let's get the numbers straight. 15% 15% success rate is what everybody quotes, right? It's a 15% success rate of people that start off as friends that end up moving from friends with benefits into more. But that's specifically for the people who wanted their friends with benefits to become romantic. So statistically speaking, 15% of friends with benefits turn into more. Again, I know we're all gonna have that story of the one friend that started off as a casual thing

• 6:54Sabrina Zohar?

  and then they ended up getting married and having kids. Like, I'm sure they exist, but I'm not putting my mo- if I'm a betting woman, I'm not putting my money on it. The full picture is a bit more complex. After one year, 26% of people remained a friend with benefits. 28% successfully returned just to friends and 31% ended all contacts. So it's not that friends with benefit inherently fails because of what it is. It's that it rarely becomes what people secretly hope it becomes. And that's, I think, the biggest issue. I will be honest, I had my heyday. I know friends with benefits well because I tried it in so many different ways and it never worked out for me. Because more often than not, one person has feelings and the other one might not. And we try, a lot of people, like, somebody actually asked me the other day when I was alive, should I try ethically non-monogamous or friends with benefits

• 7:38Sabrina Zohar?

  if I have anxious attachment style? Maybe I should try something different. And I was like, that, I don't think that's the answer. The answer isn't, well, what I want isn't working, so let me try doing something that very clearly is the polar opposite of what I want. I wouldn't suggest that for you guys. What I would say is, I think it's about being really real and honest. I've had friends with benefits, I've had it both ways. I've had it where, like, there was this one guy, and we would, like, we were the type of friends with benefits where we started off where, like, he was in a band. I was 21, this was before Clemmy, this is PC. For BC, this is BC, before Clem. I love it. He's my BC. So this was before Clemmy, when, like, I was going out all the time. Like, when I didn't have Clem, I was, my ho-hat was waving in the fucking air. Like, I was always out, I was wasted off my ass. Like, that's why, like, it's not that I have a problem with alcohol,

• 8:23Sabrina Zohar?

  I just don't like, I don't personally like it. But I would just go out and drink and party and I would go out until all obscene hours of the night. And I met this guy and he was in a band and my friend was dating the friend, da-da-da, da-da-da. And we started hooking up and it was the type of thing where, like, I was 21. So I'm like, whatever, you know, who cares, doesn't matter. And I think be- Because he embodied a lot of characteristics that I enjoyed, right? Like, he was a free spirit, he was a musician, he was creative, he was really good, he was the lead singer, he was sexy. But like, at its core, we were such polar opposites, like, and not in a, oh, opposites attract, like, we didn't want the same things. He was a vagabond, he was like a gypsy, he is always like, living couch to couch, and that's the thing, like, there's nothing wrong with him. It's not like he was a bad guy, he's just like, I was a lot more grounded and I wanted different things in life.

• 9:07Sabrina Zohar?

  And when we first started hooking up and having fun, like, I couldn't just leave it at that. Even though, at my core, I didn't want more with him, because, but I had convinced myself of like, well, we're sleeping together, we have fun together, which means we should be in a relationship. Because I think at that time, I didn't really understand, like, what's really involved in a healthy and secure relationship. I just thought it was two people that like each other and hang out, right? I didn't realize, like, what compatibility, it just took me time. I was just a kid, I didn't really understand that. And I remember approaching him after, like, a few months, being like, I really want more, I don't want to just be friends, and he was honest, he was like, I see you as like, one of my closest friends, but I don't see us as more, I just enjoy our time. And like, years went by, we didn't hang out, then we started to like, kind of fell back into it, I was like, 26, 27, like, and I remember he had a car, and in New York, if you know, you know, like, we would go upstate together, we would escape.

• 9:52Sabrina Zohar?

  Every like, three or four weeks, we would go on a trip together. And I remember, like, I enjoyed it, and like, when he'd leave, I genuinely didn't feel any, like, I was okay. And it just got to a point where like, my mom always says, it works until it doesn't. It worked until I got to a point where I was bored, and I was like, this isn't what I want, like, I want more than that. And years later, he was moving and he tried, and I remember he came over and like, we hung out finally, and like, it was so nice to reconnect. And when he left, he was like, you know, I'd love for us to be intimate one more time, and I was like, no, I'm good. I don't feel that for you, and I was like, I love you as a person, but you're not the person I want to be with. And I was just me taking, being really real with myself, of like, I'm allowed to think that this person's amazing, but that doesn't mean it has to be my person. He would never have been, because he, I think, since then, he cheated on his girlfriend like a million times, because that's his thing, right? Like, I don't really speak to him anymore.

• 10:37Sabrina Zohar?

  And I've had it opposite ways, where like, friends with benefits want something with me, and I'm like, oh, I don't see you like that. I just, honestly, I was just, I wanted to get my rocks off. And that doesn't last long. And then we have something called the oxytocin problem, and why it hits harder for women. And here's kind of what nobody tells you about casual sex is that your brain doesn't know it's supposed to be casual. So every time we're physically intimate with someone, your brain releases oxytocin and it's a bonding hormone. Here's the wild part. Oxytocin affects men and women differently. So women show enhanced sensitivity to positive social cues and are more susceptible to unwanted bonding and casual encounters. Mm-hmm. That's why casual doesn't necessarily work with women. And that's, okay, let me also preface. When I met Ryan and I hooked up with him, that was because your girl hadn't got laid in months. So like, you're also a human. You're allowed to say like, ooh, I just need to have fun.

• 11:20Sabrina Zohar?

  But why do you think when Ryan and I left, I said to him, I don't do the casual thing. I'm not going to be your hookup buddy. I'm not doing the friends with benefits thing. I was like, that doesn't work for me. Because men, especially with the existing primary relationships, actually have neurobiological protection against forming new attachments. So this isn't about women being weaker. It's understanding that our biology might be working against casual interactions and intentions, which is why casual works better for guys than it does for girls. And again, I want to preface, I'm not trying to be non-binary. I am not trying to say that there are only men and women. But what I'm saying is biologically, when we're looking at that, however you identify, it's the same as the conversation I get of like, my partner has female friends. Is that allowed? And when I tried to say, well, but there are chromosomes, right?

• 12:03Sabrina Zohar?

  Someone called me transphobic and I was like, I am not trying to be. But what I am saying is even if we include all of the pronouns and all of those, they're still not, it's not the animal kingdom. We don't have 17,000 different species. We have men, we have women, we have they. We might have people that identify differently, but there's only so many people in that category is all I'm trying to say. I am not trying to exclude anybody when I say things like that. But there's only so many people that you can want your partner to hang out with and I want my partner to have different perspectives. I love that the other day, Ryan went out to lunch with an old colleague of his that was a woman, and I had Scott that called me and took up three hours of my day as a man. Neither one of us care. And so that's all I'm saying is that when we're talking biologically, I don't care how you identify.

• 12:46Sabrina Zohar?

  I respect every single person, but it affects and impacts, if you are born and identify as male or female, it's going to impact you because of biology, not because of me coming up with norms.

• 13:00Speaker 00

  Somebody asked me how I define myself and I didn't know what to say because how can someone be defined when we're always evolving? I've been so many things. I'll be so many others.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  Because identity is not a performance. It's an exploration. Never the same, but always myself. That's the paradox. Paradox intense and the new sweet chemistry by Prada.

• 13:28Sabrina Zohar?

  So there are seven types of friend with benefits and research actually identifies the seven distinct ones, not just three casual that most people think. So there is true friends. That is genuine friendship with added benefits. Okay. That is the what we think it being. Then there's the second, which is just sex. It's a physical connection without any emotional investment. We have all had those people that you come over, you hook up and they fucking leave. Then there's something called network opportunism. And so it's convenient access through social circles. Right? A friend of a friend, oh, well, they're there. Da, da, da. So I'll just hook up with them because they're there. Then we have something called successful transition. It evolves into romantic relationships and this is the most rare. This is why I'm saying if I were a betting woman, I wouldn't be betting on successful transition, going from friends with benefits casual into all of a sudden becoming the love of your life.

• 14:12Sabrina Zohar?

  Then there's type five unintentional transition that's developing feelings accidentally, which it can happen. We have all been there where all of a sudden you're like, oh, fuck, I started off not liking this person and now I'm crazy about them. That's okay. You're a human. And then there's failed transition, hoped for more, didn't happen. And then type seven, which is transition out, clean ending to pursue other relationships, which is what happened with my friend that I was telling you about. And understanding what you're in helps predict the outcomes and set appropriate expectations. And the reason I'm saying again, I'm not trying to be like, this never works. I don't have a crystal ball. But if you're going to ask me based on data, based on facts and based on history and statistical data, I'm not going to put my money on it. And here's why it doesn't usually transition. So the intimacy is backwards. You're having the intimacy of a relationship

• 14:57Sabrina Zohar?

  without the emotional foundation. And that's the problem is when you start with, it's just physical, physical, physical. And like, that was me. That was part of my trauma was if I connect with you physically, you're never going to leave me because why wouldn't you want me? Right? That was like movies and pop culture that caught me into like, if you could just get him. Like we were watching Road Trip the other night and the girl, like the guy's telling her, I don't know if you guys have seen it. The guy's telling her how like he's getting over his ex and all this. And she's like, oh, well, maybe I can distract you. And they hook up and then she's like. Crazy about him and all these things and they're right for each other and they end up dating for years and you're like, that's very rarely how that works out. Very rarely do you meet somebody who is trying to get over an ex, hook up with them and then all of a sudden they realize that you're the one for them, go break up with the ex and come back for you and now you're off to the sunset. Like, I'd love it to work out, it

• 15:40Sabrina Zohar?

  just doesn't happen as often because it's just not how humans work. We have also something called attachment styles that clash. So, secure types need definition, avoidant types resist it, and same with the anxious folks, they need the definition. Gender differences in bonding, again, that neurobiological response to casual intimacy is different. That's why a lot of people come at this differently. It's not, again, it doesn't mean that you're set in stone, me and Ryan had different circumstances, but that's also because we were very clear. And for a lot of people, it becomes a substitute. Instead of seeking real connection, you'll settle for the pseudo intimacy, and that's also kind of why I'm like, don't do something that doesn't feel like it aligns with who you really are. And research shows that successful friends with benefits relationships establish clear rules in these categories. The first one being honesty. It requires regular check-ins

• 16:25Sabrina Zohar?

  about feelings, expectations, not just like once every fucking six months. And honestly, I'm exhausted by the, if I don't say anything, then maybe it's gonna work out. That's you playing small. And when you try to play the cool girl or guy, you're gonna get left behind because those people, the reason the nice guy finishes last and the cool girl does never get the relationship is because they're one-dimensional. You are not a one-dimensional person. You have needs, so fucking take them. Take up the space of having the conversations about what it is that you want to need. Stop trying to pretend you're this version of you that doesn't exist, because at the end, you're gonna cry now or you'll cry later, baby, and you get to decide. The second thing, emotional restrictions. You define what emotional intimacy is off limits, so no deep, like, you don't get to have these late night conversations about your childhood trauma, texting each other morning, evening, night, but then they say, oh, but I don't want anything. That's where you also get to say, no, baby, boundaries.

• 17:09Sabrina Zohar?

  We need to protect ourselves. Sexual exclusivity being the third rule, are you exclusively physical? If not, what are the disclosure requirements? Does that mean that you have to tell each other when you sleep with somebody else? Does that mean that you have to use protection? Do you trust this person? Are you guys getting tested? Whatever it is, do what feels comfortable. Communication guidelines. How often do you text? What constitutes relationship-y behaviors versus friends with benefits? That's why actions speak louder than words is not applicable. Actions don't speak louder than words because I- I want them to align. That's the loudest they'll fucking speak. I could say all day, I don't want a relationship, but I'll treat you like a partner. Well, that's confusing. Rule five, social boundaries. Do you hang out in groups? Do you meet at each other's friends? Are you acting coupley out in public? These are things that are really important, like with my friend that I was explaining to you, the story I shared with you. We didn't do the public PDA. Like, we weren't kissing and cuddling out in public

• 17:54Sabrina Zohar?

  because we weren't anything. We were, at the end of the night, we went home with each other. And we hooked up or we hung out in private. That was the agreement that we had. What are the terminations? Rule six, what are the termination protocols? What happens when one person wants to date somebody else? When someone develops feelings, plan for it. Here's a thing I learned when I started my business. Have your exit strategy. Because my partner always told me, he's like, everything seems lovely and fine when you're in it, until you're not anymore and until you gotta figure out your way out. And then when to end a friend with benefit, when someone doesn't want more? When it's preventing you from finding real connections? When you're using it to avoid dealing with your intimacy issues? When your friendship part disappears and it's just about sex? When you find yourself checking their fucking social media obsessively? It's really important. That's when you have to say, whoa, I don't think this is healthy for me anymore. And someone had asked, you tell your date to have a friend with benefit if they ask you that you're seeing someone else?

• 18:36Sabrina Zohar?

  Yeah. If someone asks you if you're seeing someone else, then I would be honest of like, oh yeah, I have somebody that like I'm, I'm a friend with benefits with, like we just do, but I'm ready to end that when I start to be physical with somebody else. But I have somebody that, that's why I'm not looking for that. Is it possible for friends with benefits to ever become a real relationship? Yeah, about 15% of the time. So that's what I mean is like, both people have to genuinely have the bandwidth and the chops for it. It requires both people to completely restart the relationship dynamic and build emotional intimacy from scratch. And most people can't make that much of a transition successfully because the foundation is physical, not emotional. Now let's talk about dating your friend. Because I want to talk about the odds of that. So, the psychology of friend-to-lover transition, now here's the encouraging news. 68%, now, can we talk about like Love Island?

• 19:21Sabrina Zohar?

  Right? Whenever this comes out, Nico Landria? 68% of romantic couples started as friends first. Now, that's not rare. It's actually the most common pathway to a lasting relationship. The difference is whether the transition happens naturally or is forced, and that's part of what I'm saying. Friends-first relationships actually have built-in attachment security. You already know each other's communication styles, conflict resolution patterns and daily behaviors. You've seen each other in various contexts and moods. This reduces- The anxiety and uncertainty that plagues early dating. Successful friend-to-lover transitions happen when both people have had some level of attraction, even if it's unacknowledged, even if no one said anything. There's that baseline. The friendship is genuinely strong and mutually respectful and compatible, and both people are emotionally available for the relationship. Plus, the timing has to be right.

• 20:03Sabrina Zohar?

  There's also a natural catalyst that brings the possibility to light for this to happen. Because, again, my point being is if it happens naturally, all of a sudden you realize, you're like, oh, I like my friend. Or again, where you start to realize that you have this foundation, great, but don't force it. You don't meet someone out of the bar and be like, oh, by the way, but I want to start off as friends. It's like, no, you can go slow in that regard, but you're allowed to get to know somebody in different levels. And the other side of the flip coin, too, is I hear this all the time. It's like, we were best friends for 15 years, and then we started dating, and now they're doing all these things. And it's like, you only know a friend to a certain capacity, because you're not being triggered in the same ways. Please don't be shocked if you do start dating a friend, if you start to realize they have different parts of them you never knew, because you might not have been triggering them in those ways. There is nothing that's going to trigger you like a romantic relationship,

• 20:48Sabrina Zohar?

  or like your caregiver-parent relationship, like a romantical relationship. That's why friends and colleagues and all of those things and family don't trigger you as much as romantic. They bring you right back to feeling like a kid.

• 21:00Speaker 00

  Somebody asked me how I define myself, and I didn't know what to say. Because how can someone be defined when we're always evolving? I've been so many things. I'll be so many others. Because identity is not a performance, it's an exploration. Never the same, but always myself. That's the paradox. Paradox Intense and the New Sweet Chemistry by Prada.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  Life is all about making decisions. Sometimes you make questionable ones, like buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronics store employee was a little too good at their job. Then, sometimes you make great ones, like protecting your home and auto with Progressive. You get customized coverage options, so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states.

• 21:58Sabrina Zohar?

  Now here are some red flags I want us to look out for when we're dating a friend. One is you are rebounding from another relationship. Please stop fucking your friends when you're doing that. Stop having sex with people because you just got out of something. You're doing it because you're lonely, not because you're genuinely excited about them. It's gonna make you feel even more alone. The attraction feels forced or like you're trying to talk yourself into it. Been there, done that, stop convincing yourself. You have different relationship goals, right? You want something serious or casual, they want something serious or casual and it's the opposite. Stop trying to pretend. Or your friend group would be rude about it, right? Like especially if you know that you only want to be casual with them or not like, don't fucking make it awkward for the group just because of your selfish needs. I'm not saying you, I mean whoever. And also, you're hoping dating will fix the problems in the friendship, baby? Please don't. So if you actually want to have a successful transition, I need you to be having an honest conversation.

• 22:42Sabrina Zohar?

  I have been thinking about us differently lately and I wanted to be honest about that. I don't want to assume that you feel the same way, but I'd be interested in exploring something romantic if you are. Don't do the slow fade from friendship hoping they're just gonna fucking get the hint. Please, don't start acting coupley without a discussion. Don't all of a sudden start grabbing their hand in public and they're like, "What the fuck?" Be direct. Second thing, take it slow. Even though you know each other, romantic dynamics are different. That's what I was just saying. Give yourself time to adjust. Just because you're friends does not mean it's going to translate. And the third thing, protect your friendship the most you can. Have a conversation about what happens if this doesn't work out romantically. Can you realistically go back to being friends? Do you want to? I need you to be honest about that because that's, I think, where people fall short. It's the same with like dating a colleague, which we will get to that in another episode. Think about future you and be really real about it.

• 23:27Sabrina Zohar?

  Like, and that's why sometimes we have to stop. And then the second thing too is, if they don't reciprocate, don't kid yourself. I get those, I'm like, should I stay friends with them? They don't want anything with me? It's like, we're gonna get to that after about staying friends with an ex, but that still falls out. If you're having a friend and you're really romantically feeling it and they're not matching that, and you're like, "It hurts me to see this person and be around them," then please stop kidding yourself. Then maybe, it doesn't mean you have to stop being friends with them. Maybe take some time. Take some time to also assess, what do I like about this person if they're not reciprocating? Right? Like if they don't feel what I feel, then what am I into? Is it the idea of them or what I'm building? Yeah, yeah. Someone asked, "What do I do if I'm falling for the guy you're house sharing with?" Now this is high risk because if you're living situation, it's gonna complicate everything. So before making any moves, I would have a plan for if- This goes bad. Who's gonna move out? Can you handle seeing them date other people?

• 24:12Sabrina Zohar?

  If the answer is no, on either, I wouldn't pursue it. I would not, because we have to think of future you. And that's part of this, of like, okay, if this doesn't work well, am I okay to lose a friend? Or maybe were we ever friends to begin with? Or was one of us always hoping the other person was gonna wanna fuck? Right? And someone said same about like dating a friend that you've known for years. The advantage is you already know each other well and you have an established trust. But the disadvantage is that if it doesn't work, you risk losing the friend. So again, is this a potential relationship that you are worth losing? And we're losing the friendship? Sometimes, yes, sometimes no. Sometimes people are like, ah, fuck, I'd rather try this out. And then if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But don't let the loss of, like, the fear of loss prevent you from exploring that genuine connection. So, another question. How can I get over him now that he's moving away and I caught feelings? Well, this is actually kinda good news disguised as bad. The physical distance will help you process the feelings without the constant reminder that they're fucking there

• 24:58Sabrina Zohar?

  and treat it like any other unrequited crush. Feel the feelings, right? Allow yourself to be sad and be bummed. You're okay. You don't need to maintain the intensity through long-distance communication and force it. And focus on other connections. Who else are you able to explore? What else are you able to explore? And where else are you able to create new connections with people? So that you're not just focused on this one. Because more often than not, a good floats to the top, the bad sinks to the bottom. And we start to idealize this person and we create this entire narrative. And that's why we become obsessive with people. And typically because they didn't create safety. Because if you were really safe with them, then you guys would be able to have conversations. Okay, let's get to the biggie. Should you stay friends after a breakup? I hear this all the fucking time. So, the short answer is sometimes, but probably not in the way most people think. So let's talk about the psychology. When a romantic relationship ends,

• 25:42Sabrina Zohar?

  your attachment style doesn't immediately recognize that this person is just a friend. Because remember, did your nervous system recognize that your parents were unavailable and didn't have the bandwidth and the tools to show up? No, it just identified that you were scared that you were gonna be left. This person's still encoded in your brain as a romantic attachment figure, which is why seeing them can trigger all those emotional responses, even months later. And so we have to kinda break down the four types of ex-friendships. And I also hear this too, all the time of like, well, my, you know, somebody I'm dating has an ex in their life. And it's like, this is what we need to start to look at. What type of friend are there? The first one is security-based friendship. You stay friends because they provide you emotional comfort and you genuinely care about their well-being. This has the best success rate. This was me and my ex. My ex, I always talk about him like the Ken doll from a few years ago. Like, he's so good-looking and handsome.

• 26:25Sabrina Zohar?

  He looked like a Ken doll, like blond, tall, chiseled, blue eyes. Very not my type, but like, he was just such a great guy. And we stayed friends with each other after because we genuinely cared about each other. We genuinely said, "We are not right for each other." Both of us looked at each other that night, felt the same, cried in each other's arms, love each other as people, but we're like, "We don't..." He ended up moving on. Like, I'm so grateful. The lives that both of us have were not the ones that we would have wanted with each other. And when we ended it, like, we stayed friends until my ex and I got together, like, a year later. And he was like, "Hey, I don't feel comfortable with this." And I was like, "Okay, I'll respect it." And then my ex, the other guy, he found out he had a new girlfriend, and we both kind of just agreed, like, "Let's just move on with our lives. I don't need to be friends with someone I slept with." The second type of is unresolved romantic desire, where one or both people stays friends, hoping to eventually get back. This creates the longest-lasting friendship, but also the most psychological distress,

• 27:10Sabrina Zohar?

  because you're not being real with yourself. So you'll be friends, "Oh, I care so much, I care so much," because you're still trying to get back into their good graces of like, "But maybe if they just... Maybe if they realize, like, I don't add any pressure, and I'm just, like, super cool, I look really hot." "Oh, baby, I've been there, and I've done that. I've tried to stay friends with guys after, and I end up being the one that hurt, not them." Because you can't, you try to play the cool girl and do all that, and then you get in, and then all of a sudden, you see him with another girl, or guy, or they, and you're like, "Fuck." It never works out in the way that you want. The third one, practical friendship. You stay connected due to shared social circles, like your friends, work relationships, co-parenting. And this both, like, this works when both of you guys have accepted the practical nature. So when both people are like, "Hey, we don't need to make this anything it's not. I don't really care for you, you don't really care for me," or whatever, right? Like, "We're good, we're just gonna be cordial. I see you out, hey, how you doing?" We all have those people, it doesn't need to be anything more.

• 27:55Sabrina Zohar?

  And the last one, civility friendship. You maintain respectful contact to prove you're mature and can handle it. This usually burns out once the ego need is satisfied. And I see that all the time, is a lot of people, "Look, I don't want them to think I'm anything." And you're like, "All right, stay as long as you want, then." And the reason, like, when it actually works out is when you broke up due to circumstances. Maybe it's distance, timing, not fundamental incompatibility. That's when you can still be friends, because you're like, "Hey, I love you as a person, but I just don't think it's the right timing." And you're both like, "Okay." Both people have completely processed the relationship and moved on emotionally. That's a huge thing. And that's something that we need to hold space for. If you have not actually moved on from this relationship... Relationship and genuinely processed it, or that you can genuinely celebrate each other's new relationship without jealousy. The fact that this friendship might add value to your lives without drama, then don't fucking do it. Don't do it to try to prove something to yourself.

• 28:40Sabrina Zohar?

  It's never going to work. And also, when neither person uses the friendship to monitor the other's dating life, you don't stay friends with someone to be like, "So who are you? Like, are you seeing anybody?" "No, bitch." Move on with your life, baby. And here's something that research shows. Now, again, I'm talking about research show that men are more likely to stay friends with their exers for unresolved romantic reasons, while women are more likely to stay friends for practical or security reasons. Women are also more, like, or have reported more negative effects from ex-friendships, including interference with new relationships. So, again, I don't care where you fall on the spectrum. I'm just giving you the science. And the reason it doesn't work is because usually one person wants to get back with the other. You broke up due to betrayal, or abuse, or like, major incompatibility. Your staying connected prevents either of you from moving on. Your new partners are uncomfortable with the friendship,

• 29:25Sabrina Zohar?

  and they have valid reasons, right? This isn't just, "I don't like it." Right? It's more about like, "Oh, it's inappropriate." Or you guys are together, like, I don't know if you guys watch 90 Day Fiance, Tim and Veronica? Like, at that point, you're just like, "That's inappropriate." Like, "Why are you and your ex in bed together, watching a movie? Like, I don't like that." Versus, you know, "Hey, all right." Like, "You guys are maintaining it for the kids." Okay. Like, that I get. And the friendship is really just an excuse to stay emotionally tethered. I hear that all the fucking time. "My ex, my ex." And then it's like, "Let me know." So they fucking started sleeping together? My non-negotiable has always been, "You need to be done with your ex." "I am tired of this." Like, "I'm still hung up. I'm not ready to move on." And it's like, "That's okay. I will meet you where you're at, but don't fucking date me." Be honest about that from the beginning. It's a huge non-negotiable I have always had, and it's never led me wrong. Because, baby, I saved myself a lot of fucking tears.

• 30:12Speaker 00

  Somebody asked me how I define myself, and I didn't know what to say. Because how can someone be defined when we're always evolving? I've been so many things. I'll be so many others.

• 30:28Speaker 00

  Because identity is not a performance. It's an exploration. Never the same, but always myself. That's the paradox. Paradox Intense and the New Sweet Chemistry by Prada.

• 30:40Sabrina Zohar?

  Someone said, "Should you try to be friends with nice people who break up with you?" You don't have to. Just because they're nice, if you need time to process and detach, take the fucking time. You don't have to attempt a friendship. Just because they're a good person, maybe later, right? Maybe you can say, "For now, that's not actually gonna work." But only if you actually wanna be their friend, not because you're hoping you're gonna get back together. That's something that we have to be really real of. You know who I'm friends with? If I've gone on a date with you and we weren't physical, Ryan has met guys that I've gone out with dates with, and he's like, "Oh, I could totally see why this didn't work out." It's like, "'Cause we never even kissed, we didn't hold hands, nothing." We're two people that thought each other were cute, went out and go, "Ah, it's not for me." Okay, fine. Someone said, "When is it worth staying friends versus letting go?" Stay friends if the breakup was amicable, if you've moved on, if you're both genuinely friends, or maybe you were friends before you started dating and the friendship adds value without drama.

• 31:25Sabrina Zohar?

  But let go if there's unresolved feelings, the breakup was messy, you're staying connected to prevent you from moving forward. This is not gonna work. It's not gonna work! Someone said, "Why would he say 'let's be friends' but then unfollow you?" Okay. A lot of people say "let's be friends" because they're trying to fucking be nice and they don't wanna feel guilty when they end things. It's not because they actually wanna be friends. It's a way to soften the blow. And the unfollowing suggests you realized. You realized maintaining contact wasn't healthy or realistic, which is actually more honest than pretending. Let him fucking go. You're allowed to be bummed of like, "Oh, man, I actually thought we were gonna be friends." Doesn't mean you need to fucking pretend. And then lastly, I wanna talk about situationships. This has a... Ah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This, situationships, we have episodes on it, if you guys want more, but I figured let's talk about it briefly since we're talking. A situationship is a relationship with emotional and physical intimacy,

• 32:09Sabrina Zohar?

  but without clear commitment, labels, or future planning. And it's more than friends with benefits because there's genuine emotional connection, but less than dating because there's no progression or exclusivity. And here's a fucking real reality. 50% of people... Fifty percent of people aged eighteen to twenty-nine are currently in situationships. This isn't just casual dating, it's become the primary way a lot of young adults are kind of relating to each other. And here's the thing, it's making the fucking miserable. Research shows that seventy-seven percent of Gen Z report being ghosted, and these ambiguous relationships correlate strongly with anxiety, hypervigilance, and even emotional abuse patterns. And the reason that I keep saying is like, you wanna fucking get out of a situationship, you gotta start communicating. And then we hear people, "Oh, I don't wanna be too much, I don't wanna be this." And it's like, and then you wonder why seventy-seven percent of people aren't unhappy.

• 32:54Sabrina Zohar?

  So there's something called the ambiguous loss problem, and I wanted, again, I wanted to bring some new stuff. So psychologist Pauline Boss talks about ambiguous loss. So it's a grief that occurs when someone is physically present but psychologically absent, or vice versa. And that perfectly describes situationships. So your situationship is psychologically present but romantically absent. So your brain doesn't know how to process this, so you end up in emotional limbo. You're experiencing attachment without security, intimacy without commitment, and that's why situationships feel so fucking hard to get over, because you're creating a lot of narratives, you don't actually have facts to back it up. And why people choose situationships? Commitment fear and anxiety. It's a fear of being trapped or making the wrong choice, so it's cool, I'll go with the flow. All right? Dating app culture creates this endless fear of settling. Also, economic instability, feeling unprepared for traditional relationship milestones,

• 33:38Sabrina Zohar?

  like having kids, buying a house, like, let's be honest, a lot of us don't know that reality. Previous relationship trauma, using ambiguity as protection from hurt, or avoidance of vulnerability, right? Like, you get some of the benefits without the emotional risk, and it really then kind of stifles your growth. And when you repeatedly experience emotional intimacy without security, you develop hypervigilance, you're constantly scanning for signs of abandonment or rejection, and research shows why this is concerning. And it's concerning because there's strong correlations with narcissistic traits and emotional manipulation. That's why a lot of people can get into those situationships. Increased rates of anxiety, hypervigilance, and depression. Duh, I don't think that's shocking. Difficulty forming, secure attachments later in life, and perpetual dissatisfaction and fear of missing out, because you're constantly, always waiting for the next. And the reason that they work out temporarily

• 34:22Sabrina Zohar?

  is because both people are genuinely content with ambiguity. Nobody needs that, because one might be fear, the other might be fear, right? They're using it as like, a transition between relationships. It's just a place. Or your focus on other priorities and dating isn't a focus. Both people have, you could be two secure people with great communication, but that's what I mean by like typically speaking, if you're two secure people and have good communication, then you're not going to be in a situationship. You will be determining that, hey, this is more of a casual thing for me, but then you're going to be clear about it. And when they don't work, duh. When one person wants more commitment than the other, you're not being honest, you're self abandoning. When you're using the ambiguity to avoid the different conversations, that's what I mean by stop with the, I just want to go with the flow bullshit. Going with the flow, where the fuck is the flow taking me? No, baby. And we have to stop if this is your default pattern,

• 35:07Sabrina Zohar?

  especially like it's preventing you from developing relational skills. So if you really want to fucking break this, I need you to be honest about one, what are you avoiding? Commitment, vulnerability, conflict? What are you avoiding talking? You not saying what you want. How is that protecting you? Practice direct communication about your wants and needs and set timelines. Hey, if we don't have some kind of progress in the next three months, like then I'm going to have to move on. And honestly, learn to tolerate the discomfort of clear boundaries. Because at the end of the day, part of setting boundaries is grieving. And maybe that means going to therapy, talking to a coach, joining one of the courses, whatever you guys need. You guys know we're here. And here's how you can actually handle them, like some real tools. And I'm going to go like attachment style specific. If you're securely attached, trust your need for clarity and definition. Don't convince yourself that you should be okay with the ambiguity.

• 35:52Sabrina Zohar?

  Use your communication skills to address the issues fucking directly. And again, set timelines for relation progress and have conversations. If you're anxiously attached, I want you to recognize that ambiguous relationships are going to fucking trigger your anxiety. Then we need to practice self-soothing instead of seeking reassurance from the other person. That's why I have the free guide link in bio. And Masha and I have the nervous system course, whatever you guys need. Avoid over analyzing mixed signals. You're not fucking helping yourself. You're just staying caught in your loops. And consider whether this casual relationship serves your emotional needs. And lastly, if you're avoidant attached, one, notice when you're using ambiguity to avoid intimacy. Start practicing expressing your feelings without being withdrawn and be honest about your commitment capacity. Stop leading people on when you want more than you can fucking give. And then lastly, for my disorganized fearful avoidant,

• 36:37Sabrina Zohar?

  these relationships might feel familiar, but they're more likely re-traumatizing you because of the ambiguity. Focus on healing work before engaging in complex relationship dynamics and seek relationships with clear, fucking consistent communication. And again, consider like if you need professional help, there's therapy, there are all these different tools and modalities, whatever you guys need. And something that you could do, if you want to end with a friend with benefit, I've been thinking about what I want in life right now, and I think it's time for us to end the physical part of our relationship. I've really enjoyed our connection, but I'm ready to focus on finding something more serious. Right? And if you don't want to stay friends with an ex, I care about you, but I actually think it's healthier for both of us to have some space rather than trying to be friends right now, and I truly wish you all the best. It's really beautiful when you can speak up. It's really beautiful when you can say like, that doesn't work for me.

• 37:19Sabrina Zohar?

  And if you're catching feelings, I know we agreed to keep this casual, but I'm actually developing feelings that I didn't expect that go beyond what we originally discussed, and I need to be honest about that and figure out what that means for me. And lastly, if you're in a situation, ship, you're my babies, I've been thinking about where we're heading, and I'd like to talk about that, what we both want from this. I'm enjoying what we have, but I need to understand if we're on the same page about things. Guys, gain clarity. Gain fucking clarity. Let's get some audience questions. How do emotionally unavailable men become available? Or people? Usually through therapy, or it could be significant life experiences that force growth, like Ryan losing his sister, me losing Clem, or consequences that make them realize their patterns aren't working. You can't fix someone's emotional unavailability, they have to have the bandwidth and desire to change, and I don't want you to hope and wait that, thinking that you're going to

• 38:04Sabrina Zohar?

  be the exception, because you're probably not going to be. And if you're consistently dating emotionally unavailable people, we have to look at our own emotional unavailability, because if we're waiting to be a placeholder in someone's life, then we're not taking space up in our own. So, month into dating someone, but he still wants freedom to date others, give it time or not. For me, it also depends on how many dates. If you've had two dates in the month, not enough time. But I would say if you've had nine, 10, 11, or like anywhere between like eight, if you've seen each other twice a week, and they're still saying they want to keep their options open, then what they might just be telling you right now is like, I'm just, I'm not feeling for you what it is that I want. You can decide if you want to keep seeing them. Maybe you give it another couple of weeks of like, alright, let's give it another month, let's see if we grow and progress, and if not, let's just be honest, and maybe that's also being honest with them of like, alright, do you want to keep dating? Because if they're like, yeah, genuinely, like with me with Ryan, I liked him, but I

• 38:49Sabrina Zohar?

  wasn't ready to commit to him after a month, I was like, dude, I don't really know you. Need more and I was very clear about why I couldn't. There's a difference between I feel like I don't know you well enough and I need to see these parts. And I just want to see what else is out there. Cause then you're like, oh, if you just want to see what else is out there, then thanks, no thanks. So how do you process losing a friend when you both fall in love, but it doesn't work out? Baby, you gotta grieve it like any other loss. You lost both a romantic possibility and a friendship. So please don't minimize that and give yourself time to feel sad about it without trying to move on or force your closure. Sometimes the best friendships can't survive the romantic, like shit, and that's fucking okay. That's okay. And for if you keep dating these types of people that are unavailable, like, does this feel familiar or safe, exciting? Often we're drawn to people that are unavailable because it's similar to the upbringing that we have. So we need to look at the difference between chemistry and compatibility.

• 39:34Sabrina Zohar?

  Chemistry often comes from anxiety and uncertainty. Well, compatibility comes from shared values and consistent behavior. So what I want you to understand about kind of all this stuff is like, none of these relationships are inherently bad, but they require an insane amount of radical honesty. And most of the pain in these situations comes from people who aren't being honest with themselves or the other person. And that's actually, they're not being real about what they want and what's actually happening. So we need to stop using ambiguity and it's a safety net or we're like, we're just friends when you want more. Like, we're just hooking up when you're like hoping for a relationship. We're just staying in touch when you're not over your ex. Like ambiguity feels safer because it protects you from direct rejection, but it also prevents you from getting what you actually want. And then there's something called the sunk cost fallacy. Just because you've invested time doesn't mean you should keep investing more. Oh, we've been hooking up for six months, so surely it means something. No, baby, we've been friends for years, so dating could work. We've been working together for you.

• 40:18Sabrina Zohar?

  No, no. Economics teaches us about the sunk cost fallacy. Continuing to invest in something because you've already invested so much, even when it's not working. This happens constantly in undefined relationships. Your time and emotional energy are finite fucking resources. And every month you spend in this situation ship is a month you're not available for someone who actually gives a shit about you. Every year you spend maintaining a friendship with an ex who keeps you emotionally tethered is a year you're not fully present for new relationships. It's okay for you to want what you want. If you want a relationship, stop fucking accepting casual relationships, hoping they're going to turn into more. If you want casual, stop feeling guilty about not wanting more. If you don't want to be friends with your ex, it doesn't make you a bad fucking person. The most loving thing you could do is be honest for yourself and for you and for every person you are involved in.

• 41:02Sabrina Zohar?

  Because then, baby, then you know your side of the street is clean. So think about your gray area relationships. Are you being honest about what you want? Are you accepting something that doesn't actually serve you? Are you being fair to the other person? And if something needs to change, fucking change it. If a conversation needs to happen, then have it. If a situation needs to end, end it. Your future self is gonna fucking thank you. I love you, guys. As always, you guys know if you need anything, I am here. You can join one of the courses, link in bio. Everything's at sabrina zohar.com. You can work with me one-on-one. My book's not out until next year. I mean, by the time everyone's listening to this. So I got some time, my babies. Whatever you guys need, and all courses include free group coaching. So if you guys are not part of the Telegram group, email us. And again, if you guys have subscribed to Ad Free, we have gotten people that'll email us like really angry,

• 41:46Sabrina Zohar?

  being like, "I never received it. I want my money back." And we're like, "Hey, we never heard from you." Please let us know. We are here. Support at sabrina zohar.com. Anything you guys need, you're not alone. We are here, especially if you've paid for something and you need help with it. Baby, you contact me. We're gonna get this rectified for you. So please know, we are here. Anything you guys need. Don't forget, rate, review the show, leave a comment, share it with a friend, all we ask. And follow along on the socials if you want more stuff. All right, babies. Until next week. I love you, guys. Let me know what other friend episodes you want, and we will continue the conversation next time.

• 42:25Speaker 00

  Somebody asked me how I define myself, and I didn't know what to say. Because how can someone be defined when we're always evolving? I've been so many things. I'll be so many others.

• 42:40Speaker 00

  Because identity's not a performance. It's an exploration. Never the same, but always myself. That's the paradox. Paradox Intense and the New Sweet Chemistry by Prada.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  Life is all about making decisions. Sometimes you make questionable ones, like buying a new TV that's too big for the wall because the electronics store employee was a little too good at their job. Then, sometimes you make great ones, like protecting your home and auto with Progressive. You get customized coverage options so you can be sure you have the right coverage. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers, not available in all states.