Gustav Iden & Kristian Blummenfelt: Lessons From The Norwegian Train Reign

There are professionals. There are Olympians. But rare is the athlete who is so entirely and utterly devoted to sport in mind, body, and soul, that they exceed titles all together. Today I am lucky to host two of these extraordinary individuals: Norsemen Gustav Iden & Kristian Blummenfelt. In an unprecedented period of just 9 months, Kristian was crowned Olympic champion in Tokyo and bagged the fastest Ironman performance ever in his debut. After winning the 2021 70.3 World Champion title, this year Gustav had a spectacular 2022 debut victory at the Ironman World Championships in Kona—a race in which Kristian placed 3rd—emerging from Kristian’s formidable shadow and smashing the overall Kona course record with a blistering 7:40:24. On top of that, he rewrote the marathon course record with a 2:36;15 26.2. Racing in tandem until the very end, Gustav and Kristian gave mindboggling, paradigm-crushing performances at the 2022 Ironman World Championship this year. It was an unforgettable barnburner of a race, and today we dive deep into the metrics and mechanics of that epic day. Watch: YouTube. Read: Show notes. Final Note: If you dig this conversation, look out for my upcoming podcast with their coach (and mad genius) Olav Aleksander Bu, which will be released in the not-so-distant future. The Norwegian Train is in the house. Tuck into that aero position, hammer some watts, and enjoy. Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

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• 1:13Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  We have a saying that we are not from Norway, we are from Bergen.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  Absolutely historic, folks. And he has done an amazing job. Come in and demolish the course record.

• 1:31Speaker 01

  It's one thing to lose because you're a weaker performer, but if you lose because you choose a bad tactics, then you just beat yourself up because tactic is so easy to do something with, it's just like a matter of choice.

• 1:42Kristian Blummenfelt?

  The most important factor is nutrition and enough sleep.

• 1:49Rich Roll?

  Being these outliers, outsiders, nobody's really paying attention to what you're doing, misses over 10 years in the making.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  Your 2022 Vinfast Ironman World Champion is Gustav Eden.

• 2:05Rich Roll?

  Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast. Well, today, we're in for a treat. We've got a couple Vikings in the house, the Norsemen, taking over the world of triathlon with ferocity. Their names are Gustav Eden and Christian Blummenfelt, and between these childhood friends and constant training companions hailing from Norway, there is no stone left unturned and no championship left unconquered. In an unprecedented period of just nine months, Christian was crowned Olympic champion in Tokyo. He recorded the fastest Ironman performance ever in his debut at the distance in Cozumel. He became the first person to go under seven

• 2:48Rich Roll?

  hours at the 140.6 distance in the Sub-7 Project, clocking an astonishing, assisted, yes, but still astonishing, six hours and 44 minutes. And he also walked away victorious at the 2021 Ironman World Championships in St. George, Utah. On the other hand, hot off and absolutely spectacular debut victory at the Ironman World Championships in Kona on October 8th, just 10 days ago, a race in which Christian placed third, Gustav Eden, who happens to be the 2021 70.3 world champion, has now definitively emerged from Christian's

• 3:28Rich Roll?

  formidable shadow, smashing the overall Kona course record with a blistering 7 hours, 40 minutes, and 24 seconds, also rewriting the marathon course record with a 2 hour, 36 minute, and 15 second, 26.2 along the way. Personally, I was absolutely glued to the Ironman World Championship livestream all day on October 8th. It was a barn burner of a race in which Christian and Gustav raced in tandem until the very end, and it was an absolute thrill to host both of them in studio, literally just two days after the epic race, the details of which we cover extensively in this conversation.

• 4:15Rich Roll?

  We also discussed the nature of their unique training protocols, what a day in their lives looks like, the extreme science and data mining that underscores their training and racing protocols, as well as their advice for amateur athletes and more. In other words, how do they do it? Why are they so much better than everyone else? And what the heck is going on in Norway, anyway? We'll get into all of that and more, but first.

• 4:54Rich Roll?

  Final note, if you dig this vibe, I also recorded a separate podcast with their coach, Olav Alexander-Bu, who is a bit of a mad genius. And that's an amazing conversation that we will be releasing on a future, undetermined-as-of-now date. So there is that to look forward to. Anyway, waste further precious seconds? We will not. The Norwegian train is in the house, so let's tuck into that arrow position, hammer some watts, and enjoy.

• 5:29Rich Roll?

  Welcome, guys. I'm so excited to talk to you.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  How are you guys feeling? Right now, I'm extremely tired. My cords are not good.

• 5:38Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  But I'm, yeah, extremely happy.

• 5:40Rich Roll?

  Uh huh.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Satisfied.

• 5:41Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Combination of hangover and just lack of sleep. And, yeah.

• 5:49Rich Roll?

  I asked you guys if you were able to sneak in a little partying after the race, but no, right? You had to get on a plane and get to LA.

• 5:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we went to the bank yet afterwards, but that's just more like an awards ceremony, so no party. And, yeah, went straight to bed and came here.

• 6:05Rich Roll?

  Came here, your bikes didn't make it.

• 6:07Kristian Blummenfelt?

  But I can't see what, like, how people can even stay awake. Like, when you've been out, like, it was getting up, like, 3:30 in the morning, and then racing the whole day, and then when the evening is coming, I'm just so, so tired.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Maybe they're saving themselves for the after-party, and that's why not winning.

• 6:25Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Maybe.

• 6:26Rich Roll?

  That after-party's probably going on right now, I would imagine. Well, I'm delighted that you've carved out time in your busy schedule to sit down with me. It's just a treat and an honor to talk to you both on the wake of such an extraordinary race. But before we even kind of get into any of that, I need to remind you that the most important thing is that merely a year ago, at the Malibu Triathlon, my relay took both of you guys out. Really? And that is what is important today. Do you remember that? That's true.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  Did you win over us?

• 6:57Rich Roll?

  I don't think we won. Maybe, did you guys win? I know we beat Christian's team. Who was on your relay?

• 7:02Speaker 01

  It was me, Kassan Burgand, and one of the actors from some dozen. I can't remember the name.

• 7:12Rich Roll?

  Maybe you guys, did you guys win the relay?

• 7:14Speaker 01

  I think we won.

• 7:15Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Or at least we came on the podium.

• 7:16Rich Roll?

  I think we got second or third. I can't remember. I had Alexi Pappas and Mary Kane on my team.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:22Rich Roll?

  I think we won. Just outside.

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Just outside, yeah.

• 7:25Rich Roll?

  Priorities, right? The Malibu Triathlon celebrity relay?

• 7:28Speaker 01

  That was a fun one.

• 7:30Rich Roll?

  Listen, you guys, what you both have accomplished together separately is absolutely mind-blowing. Obviously, the big story is Kona the other day, a race in which all the barriers were broken, all the records were smashed. And mostly by rookies, like of all the men in the top four, they were all rookies, right? Ironman Hawaii rookies at least. And Gustav, you broke the previous course record set by Jan Fedino back in 2019, absolutely destroyed it. Christian, you were third, but you're coming off an Olympic victory, the fastest ever Ironman ever recorded, the sub-seven project.

• 8:14Rich Roll?

  I mean, between the two of you guys, there is no record that has been left untouched, and it's really an extraordinary feat. So here we are, days after Kona, and I guess, you know, I asked you how you're feeling, but have you had a moment to kind of reflect back on the race with some perspective on what this means and kind of what it's setting you up to do next?

• 8:37Speaker 01

  I just felt like I've been walking from selfie to selfie and media request to media request, so I haven't really had the time to sit down with Ula, my coach, and Christian to do a bit more analyzing and, yeah, really see how we did. So, yeah, I don't think I realized what I've done yet.

• 8:59Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I think we have two different...

• 9:04Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Feelings about the race because obviously both of us wanted to win. And so I like when I flew in here yesterday, like when I was listening to music, the only thing I was thinking about like, why didn't I win? Like, and what could I have done differently? And so I've had a little bit of time to reflect. But it's just like in the back of the mind.

• 9:25Rich Roll?

  Right. So obviously unfinished business for you, Christian.

• 9:32Rich Roll?

  And it's interesting because you know, you guys grew up together. You've known each other forever. You do all your training together. There is this camaraderie, this friendship, but also a rivalry. And you know, all eyes were on the both of you running together, you know, through the latter part of the marathon. Who was going to break away and when was that going to happen? And most of the spotlight has been on you, Christian, because of your past performances. Gustav, you hadn't yet had that opportunity to really kind of flex and shine. You missed that opportunity in St. George by being sick.

• 10:05Rich Roll?

  So this was really your moment. Did you have the confidence going in that you could accomplish this? Are you surprised? Or you know, how are you feeling about kind of emerging from, you know, I don't want to say shadow in a pejorative way, but you've always been sort of a little bit, you know, behind Christian in terms of attention and expectations, even though you won the 70.3 world championship and all the rest of your accomplishments.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I don't think I link my confidence to past performance that much and especially not to media attention. So back in 2019, I looked at myself as a favorite to win the, to win the 70.3 world championship, even though basically no one thought I could do it. So yeah, for sure, I thought I could win this race. As I said, me and Christian training together and we know where the level is at. And I felt really strong and especially the run lately. So I knew I had a really good chance of beating Christian in a race. And I knew if I was beating Christian, the reigning world champion, then I think I would beat everyone else as well.

• 11:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and this rivalry that you have, are you still buddies? Like, you guys cool with each other? You gotta spend all this time together?

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a, I would say quite cool dynamic. Because in training, we try to build each other up as much as possible and really get the best out of every training session. But it's on race day, it's the same up to a certain point where you're trying to...

• 11:39Rich Roll?

  You're working together throughout the race all day long.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  You want to beat him, but you also want him to perform. So it's... I felt we had like a moment on the way back from Harvey, when Magnus had had the penalty. Yeah. And we had Sam laid low up front. Yeah. Even though we didn't believe he would be able to run. And then we were like, maybe both understanding that, okay, now it's actually just a race between you and me. Yeah. But then still, we can't let Sam get away and we can't get the guys behind just to catch up. So we still have to work together. Yeah, so it's a really interesting dynamic, I have to say.

• 12:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah, there was a lot of teamwork on the bike and on the run. I mean, I noticed coming out of every aid station, you would swap who would lead. Like, there was a lot of cooperation there until it's sort of coming out of the energy lab and then it's anybody's game, right?

• 12:29Speaker 01

  That wasn't really collaboration.

• 12:33Rich Roll?

  So tell me what's going on.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I went to lead and had to lead, yeah, for most of the run. But I didn't want to... It's one thing to lose because you're like a weaker performer. But if you lose because you choose a bad tactics and that you could have done differently and then won, then you just beat yourself up. Because tactic is so easy to do something with. It's just like a matter of choice. And if I had run up to energy lab in the front, in the headwind, the whole way, and Christian would take me like the last few k's, I would be so, so, so mad.

• 13:11Rich Roll?

  Sure, so you're gonna be like, your turn, you get in front now.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I tried to make him go to the front as well, just to... That's the upside and downside of why training so much together. Like, because I knew that he was coming in in great run shape. And if I wanted to have a chance to beat him, I couldn't share the work with him. I had to really...

• 13:30Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yeah, playing my card right and every time.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, we both tried to play our cards. It was just that they didn't match up.

• 13:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and it's interesting because you know each other's cards, so there's no secrets, right?

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I was a bit uncertain because, yeah, Sam Laidlaw way up front. He still had like 4 minutes or 3:40 after, I don't know, 20k or something. And I knew that I had to run quite fast to catch him because it was no sign of him blowing up. And I had my brother on course and he said, "Sam is actually looking good."

• 14:05Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 14:06Speaker 01

  And yeah, no sign of him blowing. So, yeah, I wanted to catch him, obviously, but also didn't want Christian to just sit behind and wait for a sprint.

• 14:18Rich Roll?

  Right, for you to do all the work.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  So I made him go to the front, but every time he went to the front, he was running, yeah, not slow in like the general slowness, but quite a bit slower than what I was running when I went to the front. So we were actually losing a bit of time when he went to the front. And I thought that this guy is playing it so cool now. He is, yeah, doing like this insane mental game, trying to get me to work the whole way. But I realized that soon we were fighting for a second place and none of us wanted only

• 14:51Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  second place, so then I have to make my move and, yeah, go after it.

• 14:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, it was interesting seeing Laidlaw up front for so long and the expectation being, of course, that he would blow up. He's a rookie, he's so young, it's just a matter of time. You guys are gonna, you know, eat this guy alive at some point. And yet he continued to maintain that gap, you know, kilometer after kilometer and even into the run, right? So at some point you realize like, we gotta make a move probably earlier than we would have ordinarily because this guy might make it to the finish line. Like it becomes, you know, a matter of how much real estate you have left. So I know in a, you know, there was an interview with you Gustav, there was some sort of smack talking between the two of you guys. Christian, you were like, "Well, I've been beating Gustav

• 15:38Rich Roll?

  in training for the last two weeks. Handily, this is gonna be no problem." And you were saying, "Yeah, but, you know, he doesn't know. I'm holding back. Wait till the last 5 miles." But you made your move at, I think with like 8 miles to go?

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, so my plan was always to really kick it after Energy Lab. Uh, we developed a new shoe together with On. And it's been a really, really cool project. And that shoe is just-

• 16:03Rich Roll?

  You got the plug in, the sponsor plug.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  This is, yeah, I'm working up to the point now, so.

• 16:08Rich Roll?

  You got some media training in you?

• 16:11Speaker 01

  The shoe is, it's made for the faster bits, like downhill and tailwind. It's just perfect for those conditions. So out of Energy Lab, I was struggling a bit, was going uphill and-

• 16:24Kristian Blummenfelt?

  So you did struggle?

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, but Christian also had a gap on me there.

• 16:27Kristian Blummenfelt?

  So I thought he was just playing with me when I had a gap.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  Also, but I did lose-

• 16:31Rich Roll?

  You guys haven't talked about this yet?

• 16:33Speaker 01

  Not, not too much. We're going from media, media to media. So this is the first time we have to lay it all down. So you get the, you get the fresh conversation now.

• 16:41Rich Roll?

  I appreciate that. Keep going.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  But yeah, he had a gap on me there. And I knew that he knew that he had a gap on me. And normally when you have a gap, that is where you try to accelerate a bit to just break the rubber. But yeah, he didn't do it. So then I knew he was like, kinda on the limit. So out of Energy Lab, I just accelerated and-

• 17:04Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  And went for it down the hill.

• 17:06Rich Roll?

  And when you made that acceleration, you knew you had to gap him like with force, right? Rather than just sort of slowly pull him along? Like you had to just break the chain?

• 17:16Speaker 01

  For Christian or for Sam?

• 17:18Rich Roll?

  For, for Christian-

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:20Rich Roll?

  To get that gap.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:21Rich Roll?

  And then to eat up time so that you were sure you were gonna pass Sam in time before the finish line?

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, at that time, I was more worried about Sam, actually. Because he was still two minutes up the way and no sign of slowing down. But I, I ran a, like, a period, I ran a three-minute case in the, in the marathon. It was, it was downhill, but still I was just looking-

• 17:46Rich Roll?

  So what is that per mile pace, like 530s or something?

• 17:49Speaker 01

  I have no idea.

• 17:50Rich Roll?

  Is it like, I know you guys do kilometers.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:54Rich Roll?

  Insane. Like, my kind of overall takeaway just from watching the race is that it's just at a whole new level. Like, I'm used to seeing- You know, people blow up on the run and even the best like walking at times or throwing up and having GI issues, all that stuff that, you know, we've all seen over the years. And this just looked like a sprint from start to finish. Obviously, you had incredible conditions. There wasn't any wind. So it's not a surprise.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  That's a lie.

• 18:20Rich Roll?

  It didn't look like it. I mean, these bike splits are unreal.

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it still was wind, but the wind was, it was quite favorable. It wasn't like insane conditions, but it was good. And especially on a run, I felt like it was a lot of wind, especially going out.

• 18:34Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yeah, there was a lot of headwind.

• 18:36Rich Roll?

  Did you get some overcast late in the day or no?

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Uh, no, it was in the start.

• 18:42Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Right in the beginning of the bike.

• 18:43Rich Roll?

  But also the start was like earlier this year. You guys started in the dark, basically, which is unusual.

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Six twenty-five.

• 18:50Rich Roll?

  Yeah, so maybe that, I don't know.

• 18:52Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yeah. First timers, we don't know when they know.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're rookies. We're rookies in Ireland.

• 18:56Rich Roll?

  But nobody's blowing up, nobody's walking, nobody's vomiting. Everybody is so dialed, like even through transitions, everything, like the execution was flawless. So the competition level is just, you know, beyond anything that we've ever seen. I mean, it's crazy. Like even Keenley had like an unbelievable race. Was that his fastest time?

• 19:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:18Rich Roll?

  And he was way back there, you know, it's like he didn't even, fifth or something like that, I think. How many guys broke the bike course record?

• 19:24Kristian Blummenfelt?

  I think it was only Lelo.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  Who broke the bike course, yeah.

• 19:28Rich Roll?

  Well, Cam Ward. No, I think like a bunch of you. Well, Cam's record was like 409, I think, right?

• 19:34Speaker 01

  Okay, and we did 411, I think.

• 19:36Rich Roll?

  Oh, you did? Okay. I thought a whole bunch of guys.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the overall record, plenty of people did.

• 19:41Rich Roll?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 19:42Kristian Blummenfelt?

  But 10 guys on the eight hours that like, it's just like four, five years ago, that was like the coolest record as well.

• 19:49Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 19:50Kristian Blummenfelt?

  So the whole field has been just improving and getting faster and I guess getting more knowledge about how to really race a full distance arm and not just finish it.

• 20:02Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 20:03Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Because often there has been, uh, yeah, the last survivor was gonna win. And now you really have to be able to be tactical and really push that last bit and race it.

• 20:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah, no mistakes. You can't make any, any mistakes and expect to win.

• 20:19Rich Roll?

  One of the things about Kona, this race in particular, and the big island is sort of the mystique around it, the spirituality of the island, the mana, you know, not ruffling the feathers of Madame Pele. And I know, Chris, you're like, I don't have time for that. Like, that's a bunch of nonsense. But having not achieved your goal this year, are you rethinking that? Are you gonna, are you gonna get down on your knees for Madame Pele a little bit? You know, like, Mark Allen talks a lot about this, and it took him seven years, and it wasn't until he kind of like, had a reverence or like a humility for the forces of that very special place that he was able to conquer it and win.

• 20:58Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Maybe I should have put a lava rock in his bag, so he left with it.

• 21:03Rich Roll?

  Yeah, like that, yeah, the worst omen for people that don't know, like, never remove a lava rock from the island.

• 21:08Kristian Blummenfelt?

  No, I think, like, I still had a decent performance myself, so it's not like I blew up and walked in energy lab. So I don't think it was the mystery of the island that I didn't win. So, but of course, I'm like, watching those, the videos from his finish shoot, and like, seeing all the people there, and it's really a race. I do wanna cross the finish line first, and I do have to come back and experience that feeling. I guess it was amazing.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was amazing. And I actually spoke to Mark a bit about it. So it's, as a winner, you have to have a speech at the banquet, and I asked him, what should I say? And he said that I should give more credit to the island and less credit to my lucky hat. So I have, yeah.

• 22:06Rich Roll?

  So what did you say? Did you take that in?

• 22:08Speaker 01

  No.

• 22:09Rich Roll?

  No?

• 22:10Speaker 01

  No.

• 22:11Rich Roll?

  He's speaking some wisdom there. You should ponder that. Do some journaling around that idea. You said after the race, like, I don't know if I'm coming back, like, one and done. Is that how you're feeling still?

• 22:23Speaker 01

  I wouldn't say one and done, but I would come back first thing. For now, it's all about Paris Olympics for me, 2024, and...

• 22:36Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yeah, it's hard to keep your priorities straight when you have so many opportunities and you have so many things to do. So I think for now it's better to just say no and try to focus only on Paris.

• 22:49Rich Roll?

  Right. And Christian, reflecting on the race and your performance, are you thinking about how you can improve, what went wrong, where you can make changes, like where is your head at? You're not used to coming in third, so what's going on inside that brain?

• 23:06Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Well, now it's more like to understand why I was struggling so much to keep up with him on the run, like if it was because of the surges on the bike, or if I was just not good enough in the run training before. But it's difficult to have like a pure answer to it. So, yeah.

• 23:29Rich Roll?

  Back in the lab.

• 23:30Kristian Blummenfelt?

  And you just try to, you're just questioning yourself like all the time and you just feel like, okay, I really have to come back.

• 23:37Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Well, you seem like somebody who is motivated by these sort of circumstances.

• 23:43Kristian Blummenfelt?

  I think I'm getting more motivated by this, like finishing in third and now by winning races, because then it's just back in the mind and just, yeah, it's like painful the whole, for weeks afterwards. And luckily now we have another race in St. George in two and a week, start two and a half weeks, and that's more like, okay, I can get my revenge there and use that to kind of forget this race a little bit.

• 24:09Rich Roll?

  Right. I mean typically after a race like Kona, most athletes would take a break. In two weeks you have 70.3s, no break for you guys, and that's an interesting amount of time. Like you can't really do any build up, you've got to recover from Kona. All you can do is really sort of rest and sharpen the edge of your sword a little bit, right?

• 24:31Kristian Blummenfelt?

  But it's not just that we have St. George, we have the following week, we go back again to Olympic distance for the Bermuda race, and then three weeks later we have the Grand Final. So we've been through all the different distances.

• 24:43Rich Roll?

  This is like mid-season for you.

• 24:46Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yes, so I think we use three, four days more for recovery, and then maybe some intensity for the weekend, and then trying to dial in some speed again for the shorter distance.

• 24:59Rich Roll?

  Right. All right, so you guys are known as the Norwegian Train. Everybody is fascinated by what's happening in Bergen. I'm going to talk to Olav after I talk to you guys and we can dive into the science. But I think people are fascinated by and interested in like what it is that you guys are doing. That's different, like why are you so good? Why are you so fast? So can we talk a little bit about your approach to training? And what has distinguished you guys from what everyone else is doing?

• 25:29Speaker 01

  I think it's people talk like what's in the water in Bergen or something. But I think it's it is slightly random that we have that many good athletes from Bergen. But it's definitely a culture thing. So me and Christian, we have been basically in love with training for yeah 15 years.

• 25:48Rich Roll?

  Yeah, since you guys were like 13 years old, right?

• 25:50Speaker 01

  At the high level. So even before that, we did a lot of training. But we have been, I see myself as a professional since I was basically 14 years old. I was training better than than some pros do today. So I think it's been a lot of volume, high quality training for many, many, many years. And it's made us into the athletes we are today. And it's not some, yeah, I don't know, higher power.

• 26:17Kristian Blummenfelt?

  And I guess we've also been living in this bubble like within the group and not just looking at what everyone else is doing. But we're like, if we want to catch up, we have to be more extreme. We have to train more. We have to take it like one step further in every part of the sport. And I think also the fact that we've been like in that bubble has really helped us to, yeah, just accelerate.

• 26:46Rich Roll?

  Right, kind of being these outliers, outsiders. Nobody's really paying attention to what you're doing. And you could kind of go deep when the stakes were low and there were no expectations. And you know, find a certain kind of groove that ultimately. Is paying dividends. I mean, this is like over 10 years in the making.

• 27:04Kristian Blummenfelt?

  And also no history in the sport because we had no history. We had to make the pathway ourselves. So we haven't just been following someone.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. And if you're known for being the ones who train the best, the ones who train the most extreme, it's kind of like a positive feedback loop. So since everyone's saying is, yeah, you're training the best. You're smartest, so scientific. You kind of grow into that even more. And that makes you think, okay, we have to do everything more, have to do everything more scientific. So it's for sure, it's good to be known to be good because then you think you're a good self. So I think it's something about that as well.

• 27:43Rich Roll?

  Well, I see it as a confluence of all of these factors that you couldn't have predicted. Like you have, you, you're, you come from a cycling background originally, right? And Christian, you come from swimming.

• 27:54Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Swimming, believe it or not.

• 27:56Rich Roll?

  Yeah, no, I can believe it.

• 27:59Rich Roll?

  At a time when Norway hadn't put anybody on a triathlon Olympic team for, I don't know how long, ever maybe. Had there been?

• 28:09Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yeah, never.

• 28:10Rich Roll?

  Never before. But suddenly you have an interest in Norway for truly developing a professional approach to the sport. With, what was his name? Arid Tivitan?

• 28:23Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Arid Tivitan.

• 28:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I'm never going to pronounce that right. And who came into the picture around 2011 and then with Olav entering around 2015, 16, observing what was going on at the Rio Olympics. And then bringing a whole level of new professionalism and science into the approach. So it's like these individuals who kind of come together with athletes like yourself and Casper, of course, who are highly motivated and willing to go all in. Like without any one of those elements, none of this happens. So it's kind of a really special thing. I think of it as sort of like.

• 29:03Rich Roll?

  Like Bergen and Triathlon is not dissimilar culturally from like what was happening with grunge music in Seattle in the 90s. Like it's a it's like a special place where there's an energy and a focus that, you know, ultimately over time, you know, ripples out and creates something really cool and unique.

• 29:22Kristian Blummenfelt?

  And I think also the fact that when we started so young, we had this 10 years vision within the team. So when we were 16, 17, we had, it wasn't just that we should be winning the Junior World Championship the next year or getting into the, yeah, next World Cup. We did think like 10 years ahead and we had that support and believe and understanding that it's like a long journey we're having ahead of us when we started back in 2010, 2011. And I think we got support from Olympic TV team even in 2014 and not just for Paris.

• 30:02Kristian Blummenfelt?

  I mean, for Rio, or not just for Tokyo, but also for Paris, back in 10 years ahead. And that long-term vision, I think, has been good to have like behind us.

• 30:15Rich Roll?

  It's so important, that long-term view. Like, we're not gonna be, you know, world champions overnight. We're gonna take, we're gonna look at this in 10-year blocks and we're thinking way, way down the line. Like, for anybody who's trying to achieve any kind of goal, like having that kind of lens and, you know, building the foundation and the consistency over a huge period of time. I mean, that's truly how you achieve outrageous, audacious results.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, yeah, we've done a lot of things right over the years, but we have also learned a lot. And I think the way we approached it in the start was a bit too extreme for for many of the athletes. So Christian said it's the egg.

• 30:57Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Philosophy.

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Egg philosophy. So you take the whole basket of eggs and just throw it at the wall and then see who doesn't crack.

• 31:04Rich Roll?

  You weeded out a lot of people early. So how many of, are, how many are there of you now on the team?

• 31:10Speaker 01

  From the start, we are four.

• 31:15Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yeah, so we haven't compared to like bigger nation, we haven't burned through too many.

• 31:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. We had quite a few dropouts way in the start because the volume was a bit high and a lot of injuries and yeah.

• 31:27Kristian Blummenfelt?

  But that's also because we didn't have any qualification standards. It was more like we'll open up the door. So everyone who wants to come in, like if we were just thinking about triathlon, you could come in and be a part of the first camp that we had. So I think it's also down to that.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Back then, I went there with my brother and one of the main guys in triathlon Norway, he said, "Those Eden brothers, they will never learn how to swim, they will never become anything." He have like said that he regret those words and he's a really a cool dude, but it's a bit funny looking back now.

• 32:00Rich Roll?

  Uh huh, yeah. The ultimate revenge you've had on that.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  But he didn't actually say it to me though, so that's good.

• 32:06Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 32:14Rich Roll?

  Let's talk about the particulars of the training and the data mining that you guys are doing. I mean, I think, you know, most people who are in the endurance world or who have participated in triathlon or Ironman kind of understand lactate testing fundamentally or zone training and periodization. But you guys have taken kind of those traditional approaches and just elevated it to a whole new place. Like I think you're, you're, you're doing like lactate pricks like multiple times throughout every single session, doing multiple sessions a day, seven days a week. Like what, what exactly, like dispel some of the mystique here, like what? Walk me through like what you're understanding and I'll get deeper into it with Olaf.

• 32:57Rich Roll?

  But from your perspective as athletes, like what are you doing when you're doing all this testing? And how is that impacting your approach to training, recovery and racing?

• 33:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's not that we do lactate on every single session, but in some periods we really have more focus on it. And we do lactate both to like calibrate your own feeling of intensity control. So it is, I think it's a lot of mystery how we do the lactate testing and no one is really understanding it completely. And that even includes me. So we do, yeah, I understand the numbers and understand how I'm feeling, but sometimes Olav is saying something that doesn't really make sense to me. But then we do one more test and it's like, yeah, it was correct. So the lactate testing is so advanced that, yeah.

• 33:52Rich Roll?

  And basically what it's doing, it's telling you where your certain thresholds are, like how much you're dipping into your glycogen stores, like how, you know, are you training your aerobic engine? Are you tipping into your anaerobic? Like what are you learning about that that then impacts like the kind of sessions that you're doing?

• 34:09Speaker 01

  Well, it's quite complex. So the whole idea is to just maximize. So to have your engine, so you can really maximize your energy for the distance you're racing. For example, when we have preparing for our short distance race, then we want to have like a different lactate response for the energy, yeah, or where we're getting the energy from. And so sometimes you do want to have like a quicker lactate production, for example, for a shorter distance of racing. And when you go into a longer distance, then you want to have the opposite. So it really depends on where your metabolic profile is.

• 34:49Rich Roll?

  Right, and you guys are very different athletes, right? And I'm sure your training is very personalized to your specific.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we, in general, we trend opposite direction. So if we just train exactly the same, I would trend more and more explosive. But Christian would trend slightly different direction. And so we have to do some, some adjustment in the training plan. So we do some, yeah, small metabolic tests to see where we're at. Because we have like this.

• 35:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, period of really specialization into the race. So the last bit of preparation going into Kona. Ula said, yeah, Gustav, we need to put a bit more trash all training into this program now because your trend is not where we want it to be. So we have to do slightly difference. So it's not that we're training like a different program, but it's more instead of the last 10 minutes of a trash all session, I might go longer, like twice the distance. But Christian might go harder to like balance out the different.

• 36:01Rich Roll?

  Right, you're more of like a top end guy. Christian, you have this huge anaerobic capacity, but that means that you have to learn how to back off, right? Because you can dip into that and go too deep too soon.

• 36:15Kristian Blummenfelt?

  No, I think more opposite like.

• 36:18Rich Roll?

  I got that all wrong.

• 36:19Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Even though I look very muscular and like strong,

• 36:25Kristian Blummenfelt?

  I do miss that top end power. So I really need to do those surges in training. So while he naturally had that top end speed and he can do that final K super fast in training, but that's going to be more costly for him than it is for me.

• 36:40Rich Roll?

  He'll need more recovery.

• 36:41Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Really sprinting that final K. So often how we like do our session differently into a big race is that I can do more high intensity. And he have to be.

• 36:52Speaker 01

  But I might do a long trash all session instead.

• 36:54Rich Roll?

  Right, right, right.

• 36:55Kristian Blummenfelt?

  And that's also why I can race back to back to back short distance races because the stimulus I'm getting from the race is almost just a positive stimulus for next weekend. While you will then be producing more and more lactate. So.

• 37:13Speaker 01

  I'm explosive beast towards the end.

• 37:15Rich Roll?

  Right, so you have a higher, you have a crazy VO2 max Gustav.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, we both have, yeah, above 90 at our peaks.

• 37:22Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 37:23Speaker 01

  But right now I'm certain I'm pretty low. So the.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it costs a lot to have a high V2max. And to do an Ironman, you want to be as efficient as possible. So we're now basically at our lowest V2max, I think, in a few years because of the general training we've been doing. So now it's a challenge to try to

• 37:44Rich Roll?

  You've got to get it back up now.

• 37:45Speaker 01

  To get it back up and get it to the standard of the Olympic distance racing.

• 37:49Rich Roll?

  Right. And you, Christian, you're sure like Michael Phelps. Like, you don't produce lactate, right?

• 37:56Speaker 01

  It's so annoying sometimes. I have to slow down, slow down, slow down. In altitude training especially. We train in Cianavada in Spain, 2,300 meters above sea level. I don't know what that is in feet.

• 38:10Kristian Blummenfelt?

  It's like 8,005, isn't it?

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, 8,005 feet. And yeah, I feel like I'm jogging at threshold. And I still have too high lactate, so I just have to slow down. And then I see Christian, "Oh, you have to increase. You're running too slow." And even though it's the right stimulus, I need to run slower because that is the best way for me to perform. You feel so shit when you're training at a speed slower than my Ironman pace. So yeah, it can be a bit annoying sometimes seeing his

• 38:44Rich Roll?

  Right. Because conversely, Christian, altitude doesn't really affect you, right? But then you also don't get that hemoglobin boost from that stimulus.

• 38:53Kristian Blummenfelt?

  I do get a good stimulus, but I think it's more down to I have such big lungs. So at threshold work, I can, I'm just, I still have enough oxygen for the workload or to keep the pace high.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, especially when we do bike intervals. Then we start at, yeah, 3,000 feet and work our way up. And I feel so good in the start.

• 39:19Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 39:19Speaker 01

  Like now it's a lot of oxygen, I'm ready to push, low lactate. And then we come like halfway off the mountain and I see Christian like just increasing the power and I'm just struggling more and more. So it can be a bit annoying to train me sometimes with his lactate response, but yeah, I know it's the best for me. So it helps, but yeah.

• 39:38Kristian Blummenfelt?

  They're the opposite because if we're riding down from Sierra Nevada, then it's tend to be like 25 degrees. So it's significantly warmer than it's up in Sierra Nevada. So I'm more feeling the heat is slowing me down.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 39:50Kristian Blummenfelt?

  And then the higher up the climb, like up to maybe 1700, 2000 meter, that's where like the fresh air is coming. So when he's starting to feel a lack of oxygen, then I'm more feeling the bonus of having fresh cold air. So I can just accelerate.

• 40:08Rich Roll?

  What's interesting about that is it's gotta, it's gotta keep the training, because you guys do all your training together, fresh, like you're very different, right? So it's not like if you were equally matched in your strengths and weaknesses, you guys might burn out, like having to train with each other every single day. But understanding that you operate differently, you can still, you know, have that camaraderie because it's not like, I don't know, like you're not, you're not like racing each other every single day.

• 40:35Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no. So we like to like win every single session, but to win a session is not that you go the fastest of last 400 meters, except if we have like a race prep session and the point is to go as fast as you can, the last 400 meters. It's more that you want to hit the optimal numbers all the time. You want to, to have the best.

• 40:58Rich Roll?

  Execute on the intention of the workout.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I think that's where we're excelling the most as well because we have a deeper understanding of what we're doing and why we're doing the session. And if you know why you're doing a session, you understand. More the changes you can do yourself. So if someone just tells you run 10x1K and you don't understand why you're doing it, you would just go out and do 10x1K. But if you have an understanding of what pace you should be running at and what optimal execution is, then you can, for example, run progressive or the last bit even faster. Or you can change up the session according to what your daily need is.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  So I think that's where we are really, really good.

• 41:46Rich Roll?

  Yeah. And what is the partnership with Olaf like? Like, does he say, here's what we're doing, and then you do it? Or is it more a dialogue where you're like, okay, here's how I'm feeling today? Like, is there a discussion about it? Is there ever pushback when he says, I want you to do this? And you're like, no, I don't think I should be doing that today?

• 42:06Speaker 01

  He sometimes...

• 42:06Rich Roll?

  Whatever he says, you do?

• 42:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, so he can say, we should do this. And then me and Christian will come with a suggestion, oh, we want this. And then he says why we shouldn't do it and explains why we are wrong.

• 42:20Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Or, but then you have to take the consequences of that.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's all about consequences. So we can say, yeah, we need to swim a bit harder. Because in the swim, we'll be lacking a bit. And me and Christian both think that we need to change the swim program a bit and do a bit shorter and more intensity swim sessions in the pool. And it's like, yeah, you can do that, but here's the consequences. And we do a lot of discussion. And Olaf is a great teacher. So we learn why we are wrong.

• 42:53Kristian Blummenfelt?

  But we also plan, or he plans like probably six months in advance. But then also like we change maybe, and then you have like the three weeks plan. Then you can also change like the last three, four days. We always like have like a bigger picture, but we can also change very quickly the sessions. So if we, within the next week, see that we are what we want to be in terms of VTMX.

• 43:19Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 43:20Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Then we are not just keeping up the program and trying to improve the VTMX just because that's a plan. But then we can change the focus and work on our limitation for the next race.

• 43:30Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 43:31Speaker 01

  But since they plan so much in advance, we can come to a trading session and he have no idea what we're doing. Like he planned everything, he knows why we're doing it. He knows the details when he's planning it. But when we come to the training session, it's like, I can't remember why I wrote this, but it must be a reason behind it.

• 43:49Kristian Blummenfelt?

  We then have to tell him the program when he's at the pool. So, okay, today we have the 400 with 90 seconds rest.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  And then it takes like maybe one minute, he has to like scan his whole brain. And then he comes up, he remembers why we're doing it and then we can do the session.

• 44:06Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Or he can change it.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:07Kristian Blummenfelt?

  No, I'm not agree with myself two weeks ago. Let's change it.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, two weeks ago me was stupid. Oh, now let's change to 400 meters instead.

• 44:15Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Christian, if you pull up the sleeve on your left arm, you can see the continuous glucose monitor that you have there. Do you wear one as well? I'm interested.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  I have a sweater.

• 44:26Rich Roll?

  So are you both with super sapiens on that?

• 44:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:29Rich Roll?

  What have you learned from using that in terms of, you know, how you're managing glucose? And how that impacts your daily nutrition and also race nutrition?

• 44:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, so for me, the biggest learning was that sometimes in especially altitude training, I could get really, really tired and borderline sick. And it usually happened, yeah, twice every altitude camp. And then I noticed throughout the night before I got tired, I had basically low sugar levels through the whole night. And just trying to be more aware of the continuous eating. And even if a rest day, try to stay on top of the nutrition and eat more. So I...

• 45:15Rich Roll?

  Does it impact the type of foods that you eat?

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Not really. And I was surprised actually because you think that drinking Coke or sugary product that you would spike. But for me, I spike the same if I eat bread or like slow releasing carbohydrates and everything. So it's a... Yeah, for me, it's only the mornings. I have like insane spike in the morning, no matter what I eat. But I haven't changed my breakfast or anything. I just see what the number give me.

• 45:46Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Much the same like. And I think the most important is like you're learning to really feel quickly after the session. So you're always like on top of your nutrition. So because if not, it's easy to go like forty to sixty minutes after a tough run session before you're getting your something to eat. But when you're aware of your glucose level, it's easy to be kind of planning and then

• 46:12Kristian Blummenfelt?

  having your routine. So you're always having like calories on board.

• 46:17Rich Roll?

  Right. So monitoring that, does that spill over into how you're feeling throughout a race?

• 46:24Speaker 01

  Feeling throughout a race is pretty simple. It's get as much in as you can tolerate. So we're working with Morton, a Swedish company. And that has allowed us to basically go way, way, way higher in the carbs than what is normally considered okay for the stomach. So I think using supersapiens could be helpful, but it's basically just do as much as you can tolerate for us.

• 46:55Kristian Blummenfelt?

  And even there, we're doing some samplings where we are. So because of the special types of carbohydrates that's in the Morton, Ula and the Morton team can, based on their breath, analyze how many grams we are able to take up when you are riding.

• 47:15Rich Roll?

  Based on your breath?

• 47:16Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yeah. And then by looking at the Vito Master or the oxygen intake we're using and the power, they can then calculate how sustainable this is. So you know, for our men, it's easy to do three fifty watts for a given period of time. But when you then have to do it for

• 47:37Speaker 01

  Or 300 watts for like four hours and then run after it. Then at one point you will most likely just bunk. But but based on this, like you can calculate and see like how far you can get and how much power you can produce without ending up in the basement.

• 47:54Rich Roll?

  Right, yeah, there is something specific about what Morton is doing that is really helpful in terms of of staving off the GI distress that you see particularly in humid places like Kona.

• 48:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, so they have this technology that doesn't, the carbs don't get absorbed as early as other products, so it is basically encapsulated in hydrogel. So it goes longer or deeper into the into the system before you take it up, so you don't have the same stress in the stomach.

• 48:24Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 48:25Speaker 01

  But it's saying that also before, one of the big sessions I had before Kona, I felt fine and we went running, it was a brick session, and we came maybe, yeah, 10K into the run, and I just vomited everything I had in my stomach. And I don't know if it was the Morton or the heat or what it was, but at that point I was a bit stressed for the race.

• 48:50Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  Because, yeah, under two weeks out and vomiting is not optimal when you're racing. So still with the best product in the world, you can do things wrong. And I was lucky, I didn't happen to rain.

• 49:08Rich Roll?

  Didn't you just have a Coke?

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I really felt like, I felt it coming.

• 49:12Rich Roll?

  Okay.

• 49:13Speaker 01

  And I tried to just have some different taste in my mouth and just drink something different. So I felt like, okay, now I'm gonna puke.

• 49:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  Took like the smallest sip of Coke and then just everything came up.

• 49:23Rich Roll?

  That's scary also, I'm sure being a student of the sport and knowing that many a great champion has been failed by that very thing, like Macca talks about it all the time, it took him years to figure out like how to not have GI distress just so he could like run the way that he had trained to run to win the race.

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, but we're, we're kind of lucky, both of us, because we can handle. A great amount in training, but also in the day-to-day life, just eating a lot.

• 49:52Rich Roll?

  But figuring that out, there was a very scientific approach that I can't wait to talk to Olav about. I mean, I know that you would drink water that was laced with isotopes to try to figure out your, you know, what, not just like how much glycogen you should be taking in, but you know, whether or not the glycogen you were burning was from your glycogen stores versus the foods that you were eating, like getting really data-driven about the specifics of that to kind of dial in what that nutrition plan should be.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was more to find out what our actual consumption of...

• 50:29Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Or to see the whole budget you can train. Because with the water that we drank and then later on peed on every morning, you could see then how many calories we could burn through over like two weeks period of time without losing weight. And then we really tried to do as much training as possible. And based on these numbers, then Olav can then, in his training plan, he can see that, okay, if you do this amount or this so long bike ride with this power, then you're going to burn through so many calories. And if we do this every day, then you will be burned out because you can't eat enough. So it's more for him to have this budget of how much he can actually give us in training.

• 51:13Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  So we have a lot of people with us, or more before, but we had a lot of people joining us for training camps. And we call it a 10-day crack. So a lot of people can train a lot for a week without feeling burnt out. But after about 10 days, then you're training too much every day and you're eating too little and just like fading slowly every day, you won't notice until it's been overdue. And at 10 days, most people would crack and either get injured or sick or just tired in bed. So it's definitely a real thing to see how much you're eating and try to compensate.

• 51:52Rich Roll?

  Sure.

• 51:54Rich Roll?

  One of the things I noticed watching you guys race the other day was just how frequently you would look at your watch, right? And I was like, what? I want to know what the data fields are on your, whatever, I don't know if it's Garmin or whatever watch you were wearing. Like, are you just looking at heart rate, pace, you know, on the bike, watts? Is this also a reflection of your continuous glucose monitor? Like, what were the data points that you were most interested in staying on top of?

• 52:22Speaker 01

  For the run, for me, it's a comfort thing, I think. So I feel like I was running slower and slower. So to just have the number of the pace that I was actually running my prescribed pace, that was a... So it's not OCD, but it's a comfort thing to get confirmation, okay, you're on track, you're on track, you're on track. And what else are you supposed to do out there?

• 52:46Kristian Blummenfelt?

  You entertain yourself with looking at the distance, it's just increasing towards the marathon.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I looked also at the time, just counting down, okay, now it's about 20 more minutes and I can do this.

• 52:56Rich Roll?

  So just pace, distance, the basics.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, mostly for me on run, it's basically only pace, yeah.

• 53:02Rich Roll?

  And what about you?

• 53:03Kristian Blummenfelt?

  I have heart rate, total time for the run, pace and distance. So using those four and just, yeah, entertaining myself and making sure that the heart rate doesn't spike.

• 53:16Rich Roll?

  Right, like if you suddenly have a crazy spike and it's super hot out, you can't come back from that, which kind of gets into core body temp stuff, which obviously is hugely important. Once you kind of tip over a certain core body temp, you're in big trouble, right? So talk a little bit about the work that you guys have put into maintaining a lower core body temp throughout the day in hot locations.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's not trying to maintain as low core body temp as possible.

• 53:49Rich Roll?

  Or just trying to not let it...

• 53:50Speaker 01

  It's more to tolerate the body temperature. But I was looking at my watch and on the bike and I was surprised actually how low it was. I guess it was lower temperature that day as well. But in training, I've been pushing... Way above thirty-nine degrees at the warmest days.

• 54:07Rich Roll?

  So how are you measuring core body temp? Like you have something inside you that's syncing up with your watch? Yeah, usually. Telling you what your core body temp is? Or is this a secret proprietary?

• 54:18Speaker 01

  No, before we had to put the pill inside. And the normal way to do it was to swallow it. But the issue there is you don't know exactly where the temperature pill is. And also, if you drink cold water, you will affect the measurements. So to be more precise, we had to put it in the other end. And that became a bit of a...

• 54:39Rich Roll?

  Suppository.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, it became a bit of a hassle after some time because we have to use, yeah, single-use pills, obviously. And just download the data, no live feed or anything. So we got in contact with a Swiss company that's called Core. And it's a device you put on the heart rate monitor instead.

• 55:02Rich Roll?

  Ah.

• 55:03Speaker 01

  And we have been helping them develop their algorithms and, yeah.

• 55:08Rich Roll?

  So that's interesting. So you are getting a live feedback on your watch.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:12Rich Roll?

  You know what your core body temp is. And you also know the specific point at which, if you tip over it, you're going to be in trouble, right? But with that knowledge, how does that translate into gauging your effort?

• 55:25Kristian Blummenfelt?

  It's a little bit the same with the heart rate. Like, if it's constantly increasing, then you know that you are in a bath or bad, bad patterns or bad, bad way. So you just want to keep it like steady. And if you're increasing the pace, it's okay if the core temperature is increasing too. But if you're suddenly running at the same power and you're just gradually going higher and higher, then you know that you will soon hit the wall. So it's more, you're looking at the numbers combined together and not just one single number.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  And what's really interesting that I learned from using the Core is that you don't feel warm when you're warm. You feel warm when the temperature is increasing. So you can go from thirty-seven to thirty-eight and feel really warm at thirty-eight because the temperature is rising so rapidly. But you can go also from thirty-nine point five down to thirty-nine point three and feel freezing because the temperature is going down. So with that knowledge on the run, you can look at the watch and see, okay, are you actually warm now? Or just slight increase in temperature, feeling warm? So you can be more... Yeah, have more data points than trusting the feeling because temperature is a really strange thing.

• 56:37Speaker 01

  You can, like this water is almost room temperature, but it feels cold because the energy transfer is higher. But the air doesn't feel cold at all.

• 56:44Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  So it's, uh, temperature is really, really hard to get like a feeling of from the human body.

• 56:50Rich Roll?

  That's super interesting. Yeah, not intuitive then.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:53Rich Roll?

  At all.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  So to have the, the core monitor on just like at the side of the body instead of using the pills every day. It's a, it's a good thing for us.

• 57:01Rich Roll?

  Right. Um, at some point in the race, like all of this stuff is, is instructive and informative. When you're out on the race course and you're, you know, four hours into an eight hour day or whatever it is. Um, but at some point, you know, the rubber meets the road and you're racing, right? You have to adapt. You gotta react to, you know, what's happening out on the course. And, and kind of just say, fuck it, right? Like when you're in the hole, Christian, and you're like, all right, Gustav's making a move. Like all that shit goes out the window, right? Cause you gotta, you gotta bust it. So how do you make those decisions or, um, you know, kind of balance all of the data with like, I'm an athlete in the middle of a race trying to win.

• 57:43Kristian Blummenfelt?

  I think you need to, so you have your numbers like in your data bank. But then when you're on, on the race course, you have your kind of your upper limit numbers that you know that you can do. But just for a short period of time. So for example, on the bike, it's not like you're just going out at your steady arm and power. Like when someone is surging, then you try to follow and, and you're looking around and seeing how the field is responding. And then hoping that the pace will slow down later on. And, uh, so sometimes the bike can be like 30 watts higher. But then you hope that it's the same consequences for everyone and everyone will have to do it. And then run slower.

• 58:24Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 58:25Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Run.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. So you constantly have to evaluate. And I think having the data points in our training really gives us more information. So, uh, but with more information, you also have to do even more choices because, uh, yeah, you know, the consequences of everything. So I could ride 400 watts for, yeah, a shorter period of time.

• 58:47Rich Roll?

  You know it's on the other side of that.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know it's on the other side.

• 58:51Rich Roll?

  Right, like you got this bank, right? And you can, you know you can make certain withdrawals, but if you make too many, you know, that extra withdrawal, if I do that, this is gonna happen. So you just have to take calculated risks and know the consequences of those decisions.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you just have to hope you have a bigger bank.

• 59:09Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Even like up to Harvey, halfway through on the bike course.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  I had a huge surge.

• 59:15Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yeah, like, yeah, 370 watts for like 10 minutes in the middle of the race, just to bridge up to the guys, three guys up front. That was just before Sam Leel was breaking away. And I had Gustav on my wheel or...

• 59:30Speaker 01

  I had to catch up to you before that as well.

• 59:32Kristian Blummenfelt?

  12 years behind.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  I had like 30 minutes there with way above race pace.

• 59:37Kristian Blummenfelt?

  And then I thought, okay, this is hurting so badly. It's above threshold. And I just hope that this will hurt Gustav more than me. And if I can make it up to the guys up front without him, then I can get an easier travel back to Kona.

• 59:54Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 59:54Kristian Blummenfelt?

  And then maybe have four minutes on him.

• 59:57Rich Roll?

  So much for working together. You were trying to put distance on him all the way back then.

• 1:00:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I saw this and I was like, this is the move. Like this is...

• 1:00:07Rich Roll?

  Interesting. None of the commentators said anything about that.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  No, I think it's hard to see from the outside, but I just saw Christian in front. And I knew that if he caught up with the front group and I didn't catch up with him, that I would have a really, really hard time getting back because I was alone at that time. We had just broken away from our group. And yeah, I just saw that this was like, if I don't make this, the race is over.

• 1:00:38Rich Roll?

  It's done.

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I really had to go way above race pace to make it happen.

• 1:00:43Rich Roll?

  But you know you got that downhill after the turnaround.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the downhill is still hard. Yeah. It's, even though you're not drafting downhill, when you have that many athletes and a motorcycle, it's a huge boost being behind, but you still have to work for it, for sure.

• 1:01:08Rich Roll?

  There was a lot of speculation about what was going on inside your jersey on the bike? Like, what did you have stuffed in there? Like, everyone's like, "What is that? Is he trying to cool his core body temp? Did you just have bottles in there?"

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  It was a bit random, actually. So, we tried it in the wind tunnel earlier this year, and it's basically no aero penalty. It's slightly faster in crosswind, but it's not really any difference. But the thing is, I had a bottle in transition one, and usually we have this box in transition with our bikes where you can throw away your things. And I, yeah, I just didn't think it through. So, when I came to the bike, I went to like throw away the bottle, but there was nothing there, because Ironman transitions, they're different than the normal ones. And I knew if I just throw away the bottle, then I would get a penalty. So first, I had it in my pocket in a rear, but it almost fell out.

• 1:02:01Speaker 01

  So then I thought, hmm, maybe I should just put it in my jersey and make like a story out of it, and people will repeat it in the future for like aero gains. But it's, yeah, it was not real about the gains, it was not getting a penalty.

• 1:02:14Rich Roll?

  Interesting, yeah. It was like, is this shape in here making it more aerodynamic?

• 1:02:18Kristian Blummenfelt?

  He's trying to look more like me, would I?

• 1:02:20Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the barrel chest.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  Inspiration.

• 1:02:22Rich Roll?

  The barrel chest. Well, the aerodynamic stuff is super interesting, too. I mean, most people are familiar with cyclists going into the wind tunnel, or time trial is trying to really dial in that aerodynamic position. But once again, you guys have gone next level. You did all this testing on a track with, what's it called, like Body Rocket?

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  Body Rocket, yeah.

• 1:02:43Rich Roll?

  So what was going on there that, you know, elevated your understanding of being optimally aerodynamic?

• 1:02:50Kristian Blummenfelt?

  So currently, also, we've spent a lot of days in the wind tunnel this winter just to be able to dial in the position of the bike. But the problem there is that the feeling you have in the wind tunnel isn't necessarily the way of riding outside. And especially me, when I'm riding, I'm changing position quite a lot, and I've been moving the saddle a couple of centimeters. Back and forth.

• 1:03:16Rich Roll?

  During the ride?

• 1:03:17Kristian Blummenfelt?

  No, no, like.

• 1:03:18Rich Roll?

  Or just experimenting?

• 1:03:19Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Experimenting over like a training camp.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, Christian is insane. It's like, he can go one session and then, no, I don't have any power. Let's go up with a saddle four centimeters. It's not even millimeters. It's like, okay, I'm gonna raise my saddle so much right now.

• 1:03:35Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Or I think I need to go down. And I go down and no, I have to go up.

• 1:03:40Speaker 01

  Constantly moving around.

• 1:03:41Kristian Blummenfelt?

  It's been tricky to find the body position, no, air position on the bike. The body rocket is like trying to bring what you do in the wind tunnel out in the field. So it has like sensors underneath your airbars, like a small sensor there. And also underneath your saddle and in your pedals. So by this way, you are separating your body from the bike. So when you're out riding, you can measure all the wind that's coming to your body. And you can measure where on the bike that you are getting the forces. So for example, see that you're not really aerodynamic in your front of your bike with your arms. Or if it's your lower back or where the CDA numbers is increasing.

• 1:04:25Rich Roll?

  That's some Formula One shit. That's like next level. But the vectors that you gotta factor in are not just aerodynamics, but comfort. You're gonna be on the bike for four plus hours. And power, right? Power transfer. So any, you know, it's like, yeah, you can get super aerodynamic. But if that's not translating into watts, or if you're so uncomfortable that you're gonna cramp, or you're just not gonna be able to sustain it, that's not gonna work either.

• 1:04:52Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yes, you need to have a good balance between the hamstring use and the quad use as well. Because of, you do have to go out and run the marathon after it. So it's not just about getting as fast as possible on the bike.

• 1:05:07Rich Roll?

  Right. And your positions are very different. What's interesting, Christian, like also your bikes are different. You have a very unique bike, Christian. I don't know what's going on with that bike. And kind of a weird, odd position. Like, you're much more upright and your arms are, you know, like up high as well. So how did that, how did you arrive upon?

• 1:05:28Kristian Blummenfelt?

  I feel, I feel I haven't arrived yet to necessarily where I want to be. It's been like a long process of getting there. But yeah, it's just the fact that I want to keep my power high and not just, because if I go too low and I feel my stomach and chest goes into the knees and then I'm losing power. So it's more being able to still think about the run after the bike. While Gustav is maybe more flexible and.

• 1:05:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I feel like I'm a natural cyclist and my bike position is quite similar to that of like time trial specialist in the Tour de France. So I have more like a traditional bike position.

• 1:06:10Rich Roll?

  Yeah. Yeah. And that's just through rigorous testing? You've figured this out?

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and also comfort. Yeah. And what feel natural. We've been to the, I've been to the Winter myself as well. And we did just minor changes. It was basically no changes because for me, I knew that my position was quite fast based on power numbers and the analysis we've done before. So we just had like slight increase in angle of the arms and yeah, small optimization.

• 1:06:42Rich Roll?

  Right. How are you guys feeling about the fact that Fredino didn't race? Is he on your mind? Is the mano a mano against Jan looming in the future? And how are you thinking about that rivalry?

• 1:06:59Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Of course, I have both. The Hawaii race still to win and I've never raced against Jan. So we will see what's happening in the future.

• 1:07:10Rich Roll?

  It's a very politically correct answer.

• 1:07:13Kristian Blummenfelt?

  I think he...

• 1:07:14Rich Roll?

  Come on, man. You're not afraid to trash talk a little bit?

• 1:07:16Kristian Blummenfelt?

  He only have one more year, I think. So one more Kona.

• 1:07:19Rich Roll?

  He's an old man.

• 1:07:20Kristian Blummenfelt?

  See what's happening next year. But it's three weeks between the grand final and Hawaii next year. So it's gonna be a quick turnaround.

• 1:07:30Rich Roll?

  Gustav?

• 1:07:30Speaker 01

  I don't feel like I'm driven the same way with rivalry as Christian am. I... Yeah, I want to win, but... And I want to beat the best. But I don't have like this particular guise that I want to beat. I just want to beat everyone. So I don't have the need to beat Jan to feel better about myself.

• 1:07:52Kristian Blummenfelt?

  But I feel it would be cool to race against him. Like he's been the best in sports since 2008. And yeah, been over a decade on top of the sport and really changed long distance triathlon. So just to take that opportunity to race him, I think, is something...

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, I had the opportunity in California last year. But then we had this insane storm coming in for the Ironman and the race got cancelled in race morning. So yeah, we went on the same start line, but never got the race.

• 1:08:22Rich Roll?

  Right. So Jan was the first to become an Olympic gold medalist and then win at Kona. But it took him seven years to do it and two Konas. I think I have that correct. You guys, Christian, you won the Olympic gold and then won St. George, which is technically the world championship, but with this asterisk because it wasn't Kona and Kona has this mystique and all of that. So yes, there's still a little unfinished business there for you and he is the GOAT. But he's, you know, he's getting, he's getting up there in years. I would love to see that race and I hope that it, I hope that it transpires. We'd all like to see that, I think. But it leaves me wondering about, you know, other heroes that you might have.

• 1:09:06Rich Roll?

  Like, do you look at other sports and who are the people that you look to for inspiration? Or maybe you don't. Maybe you're just like, "I'm good, man. I'm the champ."

• 1:09:15Speaker 01

  I don't think that we're...

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  It's not that we don't have too many idols in other sport. But I think we just find inspiration in the work we do and the conversation we have in the team. I know, yeah, me and Christian, we don't have any...

• 1:09:33Rich Roll?

  You don't have posters on your wall of this guy or that guy?

• 1:09:36Speaker 01

  No. So it's, uh... Yeah, I don't know why, but I don't have like any huge sporting heroes.

• 1:09:43Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Well, when I started like seeing like short distance triathlon on TV like 10 years ago, that was the era of Javier Gomez and Alistair and Jonny and how they were changing the sport. So I guess I was back then looking up to like how they were dominating the race and really racing actively, attacking from the start and just like being in the front seat. And I think that has maybe been more my inspiration in triathlon more than long distance, really. Because we've always had like the dream towards the Olympics rather than Ironman, actually. So it's more like the short distance athletes that has been my inspiration.

• 1:10:29Rich Roll?

  No like, no like heroes in football. The Bergen team's terrible though, right?

• 1:10:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, we don't talk about them. We don't talk about them.

• 1:10:39Rich Roll?

  I was reading-

• 1:10:40Speaker 01

  I grew up as a cyclist, so obviously Tor Høstod was a huge inspiration back then.

• 1:10:46Rich Roll?

  Right, the sprinter.

• 1:10:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:49Rich Roll?

  I was reading Brad Culp's article, the Red Bull article, that he went and visited you, Christian, in Bergen and was talking about this confidence that people from Bergen have that is different from the typical kind of Norwegian humility. And I feel like you guys both have that, like you're humble and you're grounded, but you also have this quiet confidence about you.

• 1:11:14Kristian Blummenfelt?

  We have a saying that we are not from Norway, we are from Bergen. So I think it's like that self-belief and...

• 1:11:22Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Inner self from Bergen.

• 1:11:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:26Rich Roll?

  Can we talk about the sub seven thing for a couple of minutes?

• 1:11:30Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yes. Do you wanna? I'm gonna head out.

• 1:11:34Rich Roll?

  Just for a minute. I don't want to spend too much time on it, but it's super fascinating. For people that don't know, much like that sub two project where Kipchoge tried to break two hours in the marathon, similarly, there was a project whereby you would be able through aid to try to eclipse the seven hour barrier in the Ironman. You did that, would you go like six forty-four or something like that?

• 1:11:57Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:57Rich Roll?

  Something like that?

• 1:11:58Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yeah, six forty-four.

• 1:11:59Rich Roll?

  Where you were getting pulled by, you know, a peloton of cyclists and paced on the run and all kinds of stuff.

• 1:12:06Rich Roll?

  It feels like a stunt, and I know that wasn't, this was not like a focus of your program by any stretch of the imagination, but I feel like it's something that gets people who aren't necessarily fans of triathlon excited about triathlon because it's something we can all kind of wrap our heads around. So I'm wondering, are you gonna take another stab at that? Because I think there's a lot, I think, I think six thirty is well within range with the right team and support.

• 1:12:32Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yeah, it was a really fun project to be a, to be a part of. Like, we had ten guys we could use however we wanted, like across wind bike and run. We ended up with one on the swim, eight on the bike, and one on the run. And it ended up being more actually a race between my team and Joe Skipper's team and just making the cut under seven hours.

• 1:12:56Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:12:56Kristian Blummenfelt?

  So it was a really cool project, both to my, like, for training for myself to get physically fit enough to do it, but also like the whole build up with the team and organizing with the pacers and the whole.

• 1:13:14Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Almost like team feeling of going into it.

• 1:13:16Rich Roll?

  Right, so many people come into play to really pull that off. It's like a ballet almost of people coming in and out.

• 1:13:25Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Both for Ulaev and Adam and Matt Portillo had like a lot of tough weeks of getting it organized and getting the team trained together and dialed in. And it's nice to look back and see that we actually did beat the other guys and also got sub seven, so a great experience.

• 1:13:46Rich Roll?

  But any plans to do it again?

• 1:13:50Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Not in the first few years. Like the schedule now for going into Paris is so basic. Like the turnaround now to go back to short distance is maybe more or higher prioritized than trying to do something similar.

• 1:14:05Rich Roll?

  Having spent all this time at all these races, you just got back from Kona. You're, you know, one of the unique things about triathlon is that you race with the amateurs, like you go to these huge races, but there's, you know, most of the people there are average Joes and Janes. What are the colossal fails and tragic mistakes that you see amateurs making? Like where you're just like, you're out training, you know, a couple of days before the race and you see people out there and you go back to your condo and you're like, can you believe that guy? What is he, what are these people doing?

• 1:14:37Kristian Blummenfelt?

  I think what's unique about triathlon is that everyone has so much knowledge about training and they are really, yeah, they have a lot of knowledge, but it just comes down to execution and just quality of training, I think. So they might know like all the values for their LT2 and those things, but yeah, still they don't train as much, I guess.

• 1:15:06Rich Roll?

  And. Not training enough?

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:15:10Kristian Blummenfelt?

  It depends like.

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  If you have a normal job.

• 1:15:12Rich Roll?

  I mean, most people can't train that much, so that's sort of out of their hands. But I'm thinking of like, simple things that you see people doing where they're like, that guy's got it all wrong.

• 1:15:21Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Like a race week.

• 1:15:22Rich Roll?

  Seriously, dude? Yeah, like out there, out there doing intervals like two days before the race.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  A lot of people just, they have a really good plan on the bike for a training session before, and then they see me and Christian riding past, and their plan goes out the window. And they just have to follow, follow, follow, put out their phone, ride past us and take a selfie and then let down. I don't think that's the smartest move, but I think most triathletes are training, yeah, training good. And it's hard to pinpoint exactly what they're doing wrong, because I think most people are doing quite the right things, for me.

• 1:16:00Rich Roll?

  You definitely had media training.

• 1:16:02Speaker 01

  No, but honestly, triathletes are, they are.

• 1:16:06Kristian Blummenfelt?

  In the forefront in terms of equipment and science.

• 1:16:08Rich Roll?

  Triathlon's always been at the cutting edge of like, science, because they're tinkerers and they're willing to try new things that perhaps professional cyclists or professional runners, you know, won't. And I think that's cool and unique about the sport. But, you know, I am interested in, perhaps you guys conveying a little bit of wisdom about what you've learned over the many years that would be applicable to the average endurance athlete or endurance enthusiast, perhaps somebody who's out there contemplating their first marathon or their first Olympic triathlon, like, where should their focus be placed? And what types of things should they not worry about that maybe they spend too much time thinking about?

• 1:16:49Kristian Blummenfelt?

  One of the things sometimes is funny is to see how you can have amateurs being more professional in terms of recovery than what we are. Like, I do all the massages, I do the recovery booth, ice bath, but I think the most important thing of our factory is nutrition and enough sleep. So if they can just kind of throw out those hours they're using on their typical recovery thing and just getting more calories in and sleeping enough, I think that's really gonna be beneficial.

• 1:17:22Rich Roll?

  Yeah, but then you don't get to buy the cool stuff, you know? A lot of it is about the blingy stuff in triathlon too, I think.

• 1:17:30Kristian Blummenfelt?

  But then they can invest it in equipment instead, you know?

• 1:17:33Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:17:33Kristian Blummenfelt?

  That's one, uh, yeah, level higher bike price.

• 1:17:38Rich Roll?

  So for the recovery piece, what does that look like for you guys? I mean, sleep, obviously. Do you do ice baths, sauna, normatec boots, like all that kind of stuff?

• 1:17:48Kristian Blummenfelt?

  We do nothing, yeah.

• 1:17:49Rich Roll?

  You don't do any of that?

• 1:17:50Kristian Blummenfelt?

  We do nutrition, sleep and training.

• 1:17:52Speaker 01

  Tempted control, yeah.

• 1:17:53Rich Roll?

  Yeah. I was watching Lionel Sanders' blogs.

• 1:17:58Rich Roll?

  And I guess, you know, he's, he was staying at Chris Lieto's house. He's got an ice bath and they were like playing around with the ice bath. And Lionel was like, I can't do it. I don't want any part of this.

• 1:18:08Kristian Blummenfelt?

  But we don't do that either, like especially preparing for a warm race like Kona, we wouldn't do ice baths like that.

• 1:18:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, well, it's interesting. And maybe this is a question for Olav, but so many of those recovery modalities, I often wonder, are they robbing the athlete of the adaptation to exercise-induced stress that you're looking for? Like you want your body to have a response to the strain that you just put it through. And if you do too much recovery stuff, are you undermining like what you're actually trying to achieve?

• 1:18:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, we've seen that with antioxidants in altitude.

• 1:18:47Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:18:47Speaker 01

  So people take antioxidants because they don't want to get the body inflamed and yeah, health benefits. And it's good up to a certain amount, but if you do too much, you actually, yeah, as you just mentioned, you, you don't get all the benefits because you need some kind of inflammation or else you won't build back stronger. But I don't think doing 50 minutes of massage is having any effect. If it's a comfort thing, it's a comfort thing, you can do it. But for me, I would never spend time to go out of bed to meet someone and have a massage. For me, it's better to just relax and watch YouTube or listen to a podcast or something. So just relax when I can and do.

• 1:19:31Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Do that well.

• 1:19:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah, interesting. Same for you.

• 1:19:34Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yes, we have the same program there.

• 1:19:35Rich Roll?

  Yeah. What do you guys, what do you do in your limited free time? I know Christian likes to watch Dexter. Yeah, he likes to watch. You watch Dexter, right? The psycho killer. He's your hero. There's a poster of him on your wall.

• 1:19:50Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yeah, like up in the ceiling.

• 1:19:52Rich Roll?

  Yeah, it's all about obsession.

• 1:19:54Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Normally, we squeeze in like a power nap. We're just like in bed and just recovering until the next session. So I think if you see our daily work and how we do like, how we spend our days, it can be very boring for a lot of people. And it's very simple, like swim, bike and run and just with the meals in between and a power nap midday.

• 1:20:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, so a typical day for us in altitude is waking up at 7:30, go to the pool at like 8:15, swim for 90 minutes, go back, eat lunch, have a power nap. And a power nap for us is not the five-minute standard. It's not the 10 minutes. It's like more than an hour midday, just sleeping. And then eat some more, have a bike ride, two, two and a half hours, three hours, and then a short run, make dinner. So in altitude or in Fontremer, we make the dinner ourselves every day. And then we eat, then we have a conversation with Olav about the training the next day and then we go to bed.

• 1:20:57Speaker 01

  So in that schedule, we don't have too much time to squeeze in more than Dexter.

• 1:21:03Kristian Blummenfelt?

  So maybe you can ask him afterwards if he can start like doing two by 30 minutes of massage on the east side.

• 1:21:09Speaker 01

  So where would you fit that in?

• 1:21:10Rich Roll?

  Well, the swan ear comes to you.

• 1:21:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:21:14Rich Roll?

  You don't have to go anywhere. As a cyclist, I would think you'd be all in on that.

• 1:21:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, but cyclists only have one session a day, you know? So it's easy to fit in in the afternoon.

• 1:21:24Rich Roll?

  Slackers? Do you call them slackers?

• 1:21:27Speaker 01

  Like they train maybe the same amount of hours, but they have one session, five hours concentrated. It's easier to use the free time. But we have, yeah, swimming takes a lot of time. It's always transportation and you have to change. And yeah, swimming just takes a lot of time. But while cycling and running, you can always start from your house, basically. So. Yeah, and also we have to figure out what we're gonna train in the next days. A lot of logistics. And for us, we can say, when we finish swimming, okay, we're gonna ride at two. And then we come closer to two and say, no, it's better to push it to one or to three. So to have an extra person like Amosus into this whole picture to plan around it's just adding to the stress.

• 1:22:11Rich Roll?

  Too complicated.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we like to have a flexible schedule. And that's why we don't plan too much training with other people either.

• 1:22:18Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  So we just say, okay, we run in 10 minutes. So.

• 1:22:23Rich Roll?

  And are you guys roommates throughout all of this?

• 1:22:25Speaker 01

  Now we are, but Christian is a heavy breather during the night. And my ears, actually it's sore now. I have like a bloody ear because.

• 1:22:34Rich Roll?

  Do you share the same bedroom?

• 1:22:36Speaker 01

  Now we do, yeah. Just for, just for four days here. No, and we did in two and a half weeks in Hawaii.

• 1:22:42Rich Roll?

  That's weird.

• 1:22:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:43Rich Roll?

  Yeah. No girlfriends.

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  So.

• 1:22:46Rich Roll?

  No girlfriends?

• 1:22:47Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no girlfriends. But I have to wear my AirPods in the ear to just cancel out all the noise. But it's, it's getting a bit stressful.

• 1:22:55Rich Roll?

  Those lungs, man.

• 1:22:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. Too much oxygen going through your system.

• 1:22:59Rich Roll?

  I think you guys deserve it. Have your own bedrooms.

• 1:23:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, we usually have.

• 1:23:02Rich Roll?

  At this point, being super famous celebrities.

• 1:23:05Speaker 01

  Usually we have, but now it was a bit with logistics and the Kona and here. So it's, sometimes we have to share, but it's okay for a shorter period. But now I feel like it's been a bit too long. So it's gonna be good to have my own bedroom.

• 1:23:18Rich Roll?

  Uh, final thing and then I'll let you guys go. And I'm, I'm just curious about mindset, like how you maintain your focus on, on these goals and, and stay plugged in. When the going gets tough and, you know, I don't know, it's the middle of the winter and you're just, it's session, session, session. Like you are living a very monk-like existence in order to achieve these, you know, insane goals that you've set for yourself. How do you, you know, stay fresh with that and, you know, goal oriented?

• 1:23:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's strange because I had the same goal for so many years, to take the Tokyo Olympic gold. And then, after the race, I just felt like, was this it? Well, like, have everything I've been working towards, did I do enough and everything? And after that, I was a bit kind of empty for some time because I didn't have a bad performance. I came top 10 in my first Olympics and I was happy with my performance in itself, but I didn't reach my goal, my long-term goal for 10 years. And after a week, I was just already on to the next one

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  and was Paris and ready to go again. And I don't do anything particular with my motivation or anything. For me, it comes quite natural. So, yeah, I don't know.

• 1:24:49Rich Roll?

  No, like, sort of practices or mantras or techniques that you...

• 1:24:54Speaker 01

  Not really. And I don't watch any, like, triathlon videos to get myself motivated or have, like, motivational speeches or anything. For me, it comes from within and it's a natural thing.

• 1:25:07Kristian Blummenfelt?

  I get a lot of...

• 1:25:08Rich Roll?

  Dexter's your North Star.

• 1:25:11Kristian Blummenfelt?

  It's just in the DNA. Watching you, like, I'm very motivated by races. So, even though I had the very opposite experience with Tokyo, winning the gold race that I was working towards for 10 years, basically, straight after, I was thinking about Hawaii. Like, I really wanted to win Hawaii. And back then, I first had to qualify before I got to wildcard. And, yeah, it's just, yeah, setting new targets. And if it goes wrong, like, now in Hawaii, when I finished third, then, and then watching the pictures when he's crossing the finish line first,

• 1:25:53Kristian Blummenfelt?

  then I just think that, okay, in 12 months' time, then I... Do when they cross the finish line first again, so it's more.

• 1:26:00Rich Roll?

  The fire is burning hot.

• 1:26:02Kristian Blummenfelt?

  When it's going well, you just want to repeat it again. When it's going not that well, then it's even more like a slap in the face and okay, wake up and try to get back on track.

• 1:26:13Rich Roll?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:14Speaker 01

  But it's easier to be motivated when you see Christian also motivated. And I guess the same for Christian for me, so we do feed off each other in that way.

• 1:26:22Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  And we don't spread like the, or sometimes we do. Sometimes like life is hard.

• 1:26:29Rich Roll?

  There must be moments you're like, I'm sick of this guy. Like I need to, I need to hang out with someone else.

• 1:26:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, but Christian is really direct in that way. He just puts on his AirPods and then silent. And we can go training sessions, even though we train together, like we're not talking at all. And then we can have some training session, we like talking for three hours straight.

• 1:26:48Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  So even though we are like together, we give each other like.

• 1:26:52Rich Roll?

  Space.

• 1:26:53Kristian Blummenfelt?

  It's not often I put in the AirPods though.

• 1:26:56Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:26:56Kristian Blummenfelt?

  But it can be.

• 1:26:57Rich Roll?

  That's the signal, leave me alone.

• 1:26:59Kristian Blummenfelt?

  It can be a week straight, but it's not often.

• 1:27:03Kristian Blummenfelt?

  It doesn't necessarily need to be reason for, it's just like the mood that, okay.

• 1:27:09Rich Roll?

  And when you, when you, when you do put the AirPods in and the training, are you listening to music? Or what do you, what do you listen to?

• 1:27:16Kristian Blummenfelt?

  It can be everything. Sometimes just noise cancelling on.

• 1:27:19Rich Roll?

  Oh, wow. Interesting.

• 1:27:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's, it's easier to, to train with someone when you know, like, we are in this together. We have the same ambitions, we have to, yeah. And also now going into Kona, we looked at each other as the biggest competitors. So we had a training session, we had a lunch at the Four Seasons and the food was a bit too good. So we ate a bit too much and then we came to the run in the afternoon and yeah, we both had a, a bad day. But since we're both like our biggest competitors, when I said, okay, I'm gonna stop it now. We're gonna, I'm gonna quit the session, Christian said, okay, then I can stop as well.

• 1:28:00Kristian Blummenfelt?

  But that was more as a joke though.

• 1:28:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, yeah, but still.

• 1:28:03Kristian Blummenfelt?

  Yeah. But yeah, that was, so you went to toilet after the first interval and I went out to the box and had to puke up the lunch. So that's what happened when I'm not in charge of the planning of the day. Putting on a run session straight after lunch.

• 1:28:22Rich Roll?

  So you left a deposit of your own body on lava fields there for Matt and Kelly to contemplate.

• 1:28:30Speaker 01

  That's good karma, mostly good karma.

• 1:28:34Rich Roll?

  Well, I have so much admiration and respect for both of you guys. I'm a huge fan and it was a delight watching you guys go head to head the other day. And I can't wait to see what you guys accomplish in the years to come. So at your service, and it was just a delight to talk to you, so thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah, I love this bromance. It's good. I hope you guys stay together forever. At some point, you're gonna need girlfriends, but you know. We're working on it, working so hard on it.

• 1:29:04Speaker 01

  But the problem here again, Ula with his consequences. So he pulls up like this.

• 1:29:10Rich Roll?

  The voice of God.

• 1:29:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, he pulls up this statistics that athletes with girlfriends, they perform worse than the ones without. So always with the consequences.

• 1:29:20Rich Roll?

  It's up to you.

• 1:29:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, but I have a choice, but you have to know that if you go through with this, then you might.

• 1:29:27Rich Roll?

  Eight months, you're done.

• 1:29:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. So yeah, playing on consequences.

• 1:29:31Rich Roll?

  All right, well, yeah, you could put that data point in maybe after Paris.

• 1:29:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll see.

• 1:29:37Rich Roll?

  Well, come back and talk to me again, you guys. Super fun. Cheers. Thank you.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:29:43Rich Roll?

  Peace.

• 1:29:48Rich Roll?

  That's it for today. Thank you for listening. I truly hope you enjoyed the conversation. To learn more about today's guests, including links and resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at richroll.com where you can find the entire podcast archive, as well as podcast merch, my books, Finding Ultra, Voicing Change, and The Plant Power Way, as well as the Plant Power Meal Planner at meals.richroll.com.

• 1:30:19Rich Roll?

  If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is to subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on YouTube, and leave a review and/or comment. Supporting the sponsors who support the show is also important and appreciated. And sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends or on social media is, of course, awesome and very helpful. And finally, for podcast updates, special offers on books, the meal planner, and other subjects, please subscribe to our newsletter, which you can find on the footer of any page at richroll.com. Today's show was produced and engineered by Jason Camiolo, with additional audio engineering

• 1:31:02Rich Roll?

  by Cale Curtis. The video edition of the podcast was created by Blake Curtis, with assistance by our creative director, Dan Drake. Portraits by Davy Greenberg and Grayson Wilder. Graphic and social media assets courtesy of Jessica Miranda, Daniel Solis, Dan Drake, and A.J. Akpodiette. Thank you Georgia Whaley for copywriting and website management. And of course, our theme music was created by Tyler Pyatt, Trapper Pyatt, and Harry Mathis. Appreciate the love, love the support. See you back here soon. Peace. Plants.