Pod Insights Pablo Torre Finds Out We Helped Scatter the Ashes of a Die-Hard Fan (PTFO Vault) About this episode We are living in the era of Peak Cremation, and fans have turned to our true American cathedral as a final resting place: the sports arena. PTFO death correspondent David Fleming reports on a cottage industry for die-hards in the afterlife — from team-branded urns and exploding golf balls to franchises that want the on-field ceremonies gone (and forgotten). And then, of course, we help a woman named Edna spread her husband's ashes... while riding a convertible, on a racetrack, flooring it into eternity.
(This episode originally aired January 23, 2025.)
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Transcript 7,360 words · 15 speakers
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0:00 Speaker 00 Network freedom and flexibility. That's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals. No kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.
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2:46 Pablo Torre? Thank you, thank you, thank you on that front. And this, this episode today is a handpicked episode from deep inside the PTFO vault that we sincerely hope you enjoy. Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre and today we're going to find out what this sound is.
3:06 Speaker 02 In January this year, I took Ron's ashes up skydiving.
3:11 Pablo Torre? Right after this ad.
3:18 Pablo Torre? So this is going to be a local news story at first. And I promise that as with every story, we have Dave Fleming do for us. Thank you for being here, by the way.
3:25 Speaker 03 My pleasure.
3:26 Pablo Torre? It gets big and grandiose and cosmic and profound and stupid and smart and all of that. But this is in the tradition of your study of fandom that began arguably on death row in Texas, our episode last year, which was singular in the genre. But this is ridiculous in its own right.
3:48 Speaker 03 This is part of my goth period, I think.
3:51 Pablo Torre? Yes. It's Denver. It's a couple of years ago and it's a news story that starts like this.
4:00 Speaker 04 Interesting story here. Denver 7's Christian Lopez spoke to a man who spread his friend's ashes on the Avs home ice just as the Zamboni was driving by.
4:16 Pablo Torre? I'm gonna laugh in ways that I think will be redeemed at some point, but who is this guy?
4:22 Speaker 03 So this particular fan, his name is Ryan Clark. And this is the story about Ryan Clark and his best buddy Kyle Stark. And they were friends for more than a decade. They met at work. Kyle ended up being the best man at Ryan's wedding. And the main thing that they bonded over, over the years was their deep love of the Colorado Avalanche. And it involved sort of like splitting season tickets. It involved if Kyle couldn't watch a game, he would call Ryan, who would put his phone up to the TV and FaceTime the game to him.
5:04 Speaker 03 There's a stepbrothers feel here of like guys who just instantly became best friends over the Colorado Avalanche.
5:11 Pablo Torre? Right, down to what feels like a climactic pratfall. Or would be pratfall. But of course, because we are a show based on journalism, you got to know Ryan yourself.
5:28 Speaker 03 Yes, we ended up talking to him. He had lost his laptop and he had borrowed a phone and he was on lunch break. Okay, so where are you today right now?
5:37 Speaker 05 Currently out in Bennett, Colorado.
5:40 Speaker 03 At like a job site or something?
5:42 Speaker 05 Yeah, we were working in the Elizabeth School District. So this is just a little bit north of that right now. Out of gas station, probably.
5:51 Speaker 03 Do we have a limited amount of time? This whole story just started to just sort of pour out of Ryan from the front seat of his car.
6:00 Pablo Torre? Right, the reception, terrible.
6:03 Speaker 03 Yeah.
6:03 Pablo Torre? The sentiment, crystal clear.
6:07 Speaker 05 We both, we were Avalanche season ticket holders together, so thoroughbred fans through and through. Um, him more so than myself. I mean, this dude's coffee table in his living room was a, a hockey rink that resembled the Pepsi Center back when it was that before Skilling, All Arena. Uh, and just diehard. One of the best guys I know. Miss him dearly. If he had the choice whether to breathe air or watch the Avalanche play hockey, he's gonna suffocate. You know what I'm saying? He's gonna, he's gonna watch the game.
6:41 Speaker 03 Well, that didn't disappoint, right? That's exactly as we advertised.
6:45 Pablo Torre? I just love that he's recording from like half an inch away from his face.
6:49 Speaker 03 Yeah. But you know what's funny is immediately the minute, the minute he mentions Kyle's name, you can, you can see the emotions start to bubble up.
6:56 Pablo Torre? Yes.
6:57 Speaker 03 They had been best friends for almost a dozen years when after a seizure, um, Kyle died in 2021, um, suddenly. Even speaking years later, it's still very emotional and, and hard to, hard for Ryan to think about.
7:14 Speaker 05 It's hard to talk and not get emotional. So try not to do, cause I, I'm it's, but yeah, all around great individual, uh, very caring, very loving. Um, way too young, uh, passed away at 32. So way too young.
7:33 Pablo Torre? But in terms of the thing that got, uh, Ryan on the news, him spreading Kyle's ashes on the ice inside their favorite building in the world. I imagine there are some liability concerns, perhaps even, uh, criminal fears when it comes to just what might happen to you if you try to do that?
7:53 Speaker 03 You're not the only one who thinks that way, right? Because Ryan and Kyle's family, they set aside bail money. So they got Kyle's ashes into a Ziploc bag. They got tickets to, to a game and, uh, they, they sort of snuck Kyle in.
8:11 Speaker 06 Two of the hottest teams in the National Hockey League squaring off tonight. It's the Avalanche and the Leafs in Pete. Last time these two teams hooked up, it was all.
8:19 Pablo Torre? Yeah. January 8th, 2022. The Avalanche are hosting the Toronto Maple Leafs.
8:26 Pablo Torre? And it's, it's Operation Kyle.
8:33 Speaker 03 In between periods, he saw the Zamboni come out. And so he worked his way all the way down to the, the glass next to the visitors bench. Basically put one foot up on a armrest of a seat, a front row seat, the other foot teetering on the edge of the boards. A family member of Kyle's is like holding Ryan, all 340 pounds of Ryan, teetering on the boards, supporting him from, from the backside.
9:00 Pablo Torre? This is not quite subtle.
9:02 Speaker 03 Then he gets the Ziploc bag, uh, gets it up to the top of the glass and then deposits Kyle onto the ice, uh, where their beloved avalanche play.
9:17 Pablo Torre? Until the Zamboni. And I just want to make this clear. What about the machine that cleans the ice?
9:26 Speaker 03 If a hockey fan knows how a Zamboni works, it was kind of genius because it swept up Kyle and repurposed him into the ice. So now Kyle was literally a part of the entire surface in Colorado.
9:43 Pablo Torre? He was integrated.
9:46 Speaker 03 I mean, yeah.
9:47 Pablo Torre? Into the playing surface.
9:49 Speaker 03 I mean, honestly, from one hockey fan to another, tip of the cap to Ryan. There are diehard fans and then there are diehard fans.
9:57 Pablo Torre? Yes. But what happens after this sequence of events? Like what happens to Ryan?
10:08 Speaker 03 Well, when a 300 pound man, uh, deposits a strange substance over the boards at a hockey arena, it's, it tends to get people's attention. Instantly an usher was kind of like, what'd you just do? What was that?
10:23 Pablo Torre? I came down, um.
10:25 Speaker 05 And it took less than I'd say, um, I'd say not even a full minute before somebody, one of the little younger Usher kids came over and was like, hey, so, uh, what was that?
10:36 Speaker 03 He didn't lie. He didn't run.
10:39 Speaker 05 That's when I explained to him what it was and who it was.
10:42 Speaker 03 He just kind of said, that was my best friend. He's like, uh, and I just put him on the ice. And so they escorted him out of the seats and into the arena where he was informed he wasn't going to be arrested, but he was definitely going to be banned from the arena.
10:59 Pablo Torre? For how long?
11:00 Speaker 03 Well, indefinitely at that point, it ended up being for the rest of the season.
11:04 Pablo Torre? Man. And so there is cruelty in that punishment.
11:09 Speaker 03 Right.
11:10 Pablo Torre? I mean, it's the opposite of what, of course, you're trying to accomplish here. You're trying to stay in the building, um, with your friend.
11:18 Speaker 03 The cops, the usher, everybody associated with the team and especially all the fans were kind of like, that's the coolest thing I've ever seen, but publicly you can't do this.
11:28 Pablo Torre? Right. But after Ryan is escorted out of the building and he is banned for the rest of the season, and he's watching these games from home where he is forced to be, what is going through his mind?
11:41 Speaker 03 No regrets. I did what I needed to do.
11:44 Speaker 05 Every time I turn that TV on to watch a game, there he is. You know, regardless, it just when they're, when they're in that, when I see somebody smash somebody up the boards over there, I'm just like, you got a first hand view, buddy. There you go.
12:00 Speaker 03 Then it becomes a little bit of sadness. There's joy mixed in with sadness because it's like, when I die, well, Kyle's gone. I'm Kyle's best friend.
12:10 Speaker 05 I'm like sitting there going, who's gonna, who's gonna be that person that can do it for me?
12:16 Pablo Torre? And the thing that makes Ryan's story, a story for us in this special way, is that it becomes very clear, Flem, as we assign you to look into this story. While Ryan Clark is still searching for his own caretaker in this regard, there are so many other Ryan Clarks.
12:38 Speaker 03 There is an avalanche of ashes coming
12:41 Pablo Torre? As it were.
12:42 Speaker 03 to your favorite sports arena, your favorite field, your favorite racetrack. It's coming. This trend is happening as we speak.
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14:38 Speaker 00 Network freedom and flexibility. That's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.
15:15 Pablo Torre? I do want to establish, Flem, that there are other ways to celebrate your lifelong devotion to a sports team that also involve death and death rituals that aren't quite as dangerous, it seems, as spreading your ashes unilaterally in a special operation.
15:30 Speaker 03 Who knew there was a whole cottage industry for fans in the afterlife? You can get your face painted onto a Jets' custom painted coffin, and that has grown into Jets' urns. And we found a place where they will take your ashes and make them into a golf ball that you can...
15:53 Pablo Torre? You can shank unto eternity.
15:56 Speaker 03 Not the greatest website name. I'm just going to put that out there, too.
15:59 Pablo Torre? Strong disagree.
16:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:01 Pablo Torre? This place is great. I am on now, extraholes.com. It says, "Since the game began, golfers have longest been at turning down the golf course. We've made that possible." You hit the ball, and spoiler alert, the ball bursts into, quote, "several pieces, releasing the ashes into the air for a short distance before settling softly onto the ground." So this is not quite the long drive competition.
16:27 Speaker 03 Oh, OK, so it's...
16:28 Pablo Torre? Or maybe it is, in fact, the longest drive in a certain sense. You are, again, integrated into... into the surface. And if you're wondering, it is $350 for a dozen balls. And so, you know, there is a market, Flem. A market for this very sort of thing.
16:47 Speaker 03 Yeah. And the highest form of this is spreading those ashes in what have become our cathedrals, our churches, which are the sports arenas.
17:00 Speaker 03 There was a study in 2024 by Mutual Choice, the company that does insurance policies to cover end of life costs. And they did a survey of Americans, all 50 states, where they would want their ashes to be spread. 11 out of the 50 states, the number one place where people wanted to have their ashes left were sports venues.
17:24 Pablo Torre? Yes, in Alabama, the number one response was actually Talladega Speedway.
17:28 Speaker 03 That surprised me.
17:29 Pablo Torre? I know, I'm like, Brian Denny is right there.
17:32 Speaker 03 Yeah.
17:32 Pablo Torre? But noted, Massachusetts, Fenway. North Dakota, the Alaris Center, where University of North Dakota football team plays their games. And cremation, by the way, also didn't know this, finding this out through your research, we are living through peak cremation, Flav.
17:49 Speaker 03 10 years ago, 15 years ago, the ratio cremation to burial was 35 cremation, 65% burial. They're predicting that by 2030, it will be flip flopped. It'll be 75% of Americans will be getting cremated and 25% will still want to be buried.
18:11 Pablo Torre? Yeah, all of that research, of course, provided by the NFDA, which we all know is the National Funeral Directors Association.
18:18 Speaker 03 Of course.
18:19 Pablo Torre? Which raises the question of these sports venues, right? The places that Ryan Clark, for instance, had a great interest in. How do they feel about this trend?
18:33 Speaker 03 They're scared to death.
18:35 Pablo Torre? As it were.
18:36 Speaker 03 They are scared to death and they are doing everything they can to try and subvert it and to press pause.
18:43 Pablo Torre? Why? What are they so afraid of?
18:46 Speaker 03 First of all, we should point out, right, ashes are not, they're not harmful to humans at all. There are no microorganisms in ashes, they're inert. The one thing that they can be harmful to is turf. The alkaline and the sodium levels and the pH levels are high enough that if you were to leave human remains in ashes on really good grass or turf, it could burn it out, like if you, if you over fertilize your lawn or something like that.
19:13 Pablo Torre? Right, the salt burn, basically.
19:15 Speaker 03 Yeah.
19:16 Pablo Torre? Which means that then the groundskeepers need to dig that stuff up. I can imagine pragmatically, this is annoying.
19:24 Pablo Torre? But the venues themselves, what do they have to say about this?
19:27 Speaker 03 I think there's a legitimate fear, especially amongst football stadiums, that at some point, maybe even during the Super Bowl, somebody is gonna dive for a touchdown and it's gonna be a puff of grandpa's ashes come up.
19:39 Pablo Torre? Three yards and a cloud of grandpa.
19:43 Speaker 03 Exactly. Well, now we know the title of this, this episode.
19:47 Pablo Torre? We really did just name it.
19:48 Speaker 03 They are scared to death because they've already become overrun with requests.
19:54 Pablo Torre? Right. So basically what we're saying is, sports has never been more monocultural. It is the lone big tent left in American life. We say this all the time on this show. And they are now worried about copycats, people who are in fact seeing news stories like the one we played.
20:08 Speaker 03 Yeah.
20:09 Pablo Torre? For instance, going to baseball now, in the aforementioned Fenway Park.
20:13 Speaker 08 A woman placed her father's ashes through netting behind home plate at Fenway Park, and then posted it on Twitter. Now, the field at Fenway, of course, is legendary. And for a lot of people, it's the ultimate resting place.
20:26 Speaker 04 But putting a loved one's ashes on the field isn't allowed. But one woman says her dad would have been proud that she broke the rules in his honor.
20:34 Speaker 03 I reached out to half a dozen SEC schools and people wouldn't even respond. People would not be quoted off the record. They didn't want to be referenced. They didn't want to be any part of this because they don't want to encourage more people to leave grandpa at the 50-yard line.
20:49 Pablo Torre? Right. Their silence spoke volumes on the college level. And in the pros?
20:54 Speaker 03 Yeah, in the pros where I have friendships, relationships with PR staffs, with front offices, for 30 years. These people, maybe for the first time in my career, and I've done some weird-ass stories.
21:06 Pablo Torre? You truly have.
21:07 Speaker 03 One of my closest friends in a very popular AFC, very successful AFC franchise was like, "Flem, whoa, no, I can't, I don't want to be quoted. I don't even want to be mentioned that you reached out to me." The Cowboys' PR guy, I put it really well, if not unpoetically. It was like, "We don't want a line of horses lined up outside of our stadium on Sundays."
21:31 Pablo Torre? Right. I imagine maybe they saw this happen also in Green Bay at Lambeau, where a fan got tackled, again, trying to do the same thing.
21:40 Speaker 09 During a Packers-Eagles game at Lincoln Financial Field in 2005, this fan ran onto the field spreading his mother's ashes. He dropped to his knees and made the sign of the cross. He was arrested, fined, and the game went on.
21:53 Pablo Torre? Packers PR, I imagine, not loving this either.
21:57 Speaker 03 Yeah, they were immediately against it. The response I got back was, hey, Dave, nice to hear from you again. Thanks for checking, but we wouldn't be able to participate in this one. It's against the law in Wisconsin and it's against Lambeau Field policy.
22:12 Pablo Torre? So the building policy, understood. They don't want this to happen, but citing the law in Wisconsin raises that question of, is this illegal in that state and also across the country?
22:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think the Packers PR overstated a little bit. And that's part of what's leading to this trend is that legally, there are no overarching laws on a federal or a state level that prohibits people from spreading ashes or human remains. But that law then defers to if it's on private property, you need to get permission. And so obviously arenas, stadiums, racetracks, baseball fields, that's private property. You need to obtain permission.
22:57 Pablo Torre? Right, it's their choice to say in the face of this oncoming avalanche, no. And so in terms of when this trend really took off, do we know historically when the cremation and personalization and this whole thing really did turn to something that became a boom?
23:16 Speaker 03 Another fascinating wrinkle to this, right? We reached out to a professor of anthropology at the University of Chicago. Her name is Dr. Shannon Lee Doughty. She's also the author of American Afterlives, which is this fascinating study of the changes in death rituals in America over the last maybe quarter century.
23:38 Speaker 10 My specialty is American culture and archaeology and history up to the present.
23:45 Speaker 03 And her theory is that it was 9/11 really began to change things.
23:51 Speaker 10 There were things that were happening in terms of increasing options and personalization and certainly a steady growth in the US of cremation. But 9/11 acted like, I guess you would say, an accelerant to these trends where things just rapidly changed after that, particularly a move towards cremation and the very personalized kind of ad hoc rituals and memorials.
24:17 Speaker 03 She thinks there have been more changes in American death rituals in the last 10 years than the last 100 combined.
24:25 Pablo Torre? But because this is all against the rules, it does feel rebellious in a way. Is she familiar with this specific phenomenon, this dynamic?
24:35 Speaker 03 Yeah, she even coined the phrase.
24:36 Speaker 10 Wildcat scattering. There's something that attracts people to it precisely because it may not be allowed. Like, there's something transgressive about that and a transgressive ritual. It seems like if you're taking a risk to honor the person, it seems like you're honoring them, you know, a little more.
24:55 Pablo Torre? You're not supposed to do this [BLEEP].
24:58 Speaker 03 Right. Like, I love you so much, I will risk jail to spread your ashes. It's one of the strongest urges that we possess as animals. And sports, more and more, is the only place that people can turn to to fulfill that psychological need. And I think the fact that someone would choose a sports venue as their final resting place, or that they would risk to do that for someone they loved, it proves that this isn't a theory. This is happening. It's happened.
25:28 Pablo Torre? Yeah, it does occur to me that we are living at a time when people are fretting about the decline of communal spaces, the secularization of America, the decline of religiosity. But the thing that no one is worried about from a market perspective and a popularity perspective is sports, and post-pandemic especially. It does feel like an arena full of people is our house of worship. It's never felt more special, actually.
25:54 Speaker 10 100 years ago, about a French anthropologist, sociologist named Ennio Durkheim called this feeling that we get when we're experiencing a spectacle in a group of people where everybody's in one space and going through an experience of awe or elation together. And he called that collective effervescence. And think of like bubbling up, right? And that makes people conscious of the group, of something bigger than themselves. And it is, it causes an experience of euphoria.
26:31 Speaker 10 And it also makes that group stronger when everybody disperses. They remember that special feeling of collective effervescence. And if they keep coming back, it can become addictive. And I think that sports events and sports stadiums, if you're not losing too badly, has that effect.
26:50 Pablo Torre? Yeah, that is where I want to just push back on Dr. Doughty because I do think the resiliency of a miserable jet cowboy, fill in the blank, sports fan. The losing almost never gets in the way of their of their true love in the way that you logically might think.
27:07 Speaker 03 Yeah, the suffering is what proves the faith.
27:11 Pablo Torre? But this is why I am frustrated to hear these venues, these cathedrals say actually to their most devoted parishioners, we don't want you to bring your loved ones in that form here. That seems to be a tremendous bummer when it comes to the rules.
27:34 Speaker 03 It's not going to work. It won't hold, right? This trend is it's just it's too powerful. It's too strong. It's too popular. And they're just stupid to not try and figure out a happy medium or to meet their fans somewhere in between where it's like, okay, if if grandpa was a Georgia Bulldog fan, we'll figure out a way to get him sort of we'll put him in the stadium somewhere and celebrate that this is, I mean, can there be a higher form of fandom?
28:02 Pablo Torre? Of tribute. What would it look like if you embraced the Ryan Clarks of the world instead of banned them?
28:09 Speaker 03 Yeah. Can we find someone who's doing this?
28:11 Pablo Torre? Can we convince some place?
28:13 Speaker 03 Yeah, to just to embrace this. What is it? What would it look like if a sports venue embraced this and encouraged fans to do this? And we managed to find that exact spot down in Florida.
28:25 Pablo Torre? Of course.
28:38 Speaker 07 This podcast is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. Kick off unforgettable travel journeys with Navy Federal's flagship Premier Card. You'll get four times points on all travel. Yes, all travel. So if you book a hotel, you'll earn four times points. If you book a flight, you'll earn four times points. Even if you book a ride share, you'll earn four times points. Plus, you'll earn three times points on dining. And unlike other cards, it doesn't require you to use any booking portals and has no rewards limits. So earning points couldn't be easier. It's all the travel, none of the baggage. So whether your next journey takes you hiking through a national park, relaxing on the beach, staying at a resort, or visiting somewhere on your bucket list, you can earn four times points on all your travel with the flagship Premier Card.
29:23 Speaker 07 Visit NavyFederal.org/flagshippremiere to find out more. Navy Federal Credit Union, our members of the mission. Navy Federal is insured by NCUA. Terms and conditions apply for rewards.
29:35 Speaker 00 Network freedom and flexibility. That's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at GetHumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.
30:13 Pablo Torre? So what cathedral in Florida, Flim, agrees with our sensibility here? Pablo Torre finds out.
30:20 Speaker 03 So we found Wayne Estes, who is the president and general manager of Sebring International Speedway in Sebring, Florida.
30:30 Speaker 11 Hello everybody and welcome to a packed Sebring International Raceway. The original home of Formula One here in the US and of course down through its considerable history since the 1950s has been a mecca for sports car fans, drivers and teams.
30:48 Pablo Torre? Yeah, and this track by the way in Sebring, Florida, America's oldest road racing track, but all sorts of races of all kinds are held there and have been for decades upon decades.
30:58 Speaker 03 And accordingly, they have a very different policy toward their fans and toward their fans' ashes than say, oh, the Colorado Avalanche.
31:08 Speaker 12 You get the phone call and they almost always would start the same way. It would be, "I'll bet you've never had this request before," or "This is going to be a very unusual request." And almost every time someone says that to me now, I think, "I got a feeling this is someone who's lost a loved one and wants to distribute the ashes here."
31:28 Speaker 03 We need way more Wayne in the sports world. And one of the things he immediately talked about was, "Why wouldn't you do this?"
31:35 Speaker 12 To me, it was a tremendous compliment to the venue, to the racetrack, to the event. And I still see it that way here at Sebring as well. It's a tremendous compliment that a place has that kind of passion, that people have that kind of passion for the event, for the venue. And that first time, I didn't ask anybody. I just said, "Yeah, we'll make that work. We'll go wherever we have to go. Where do you want to go?"
32:03 Speaker 03 And accordingly, they have a very different policy toward their fans and toward their fans' ashes than say, oh, the Colorado Avalanche.
32:13 Speaker 12 How do you turn somebody away that makes that request? I mean, it's just a phenomenal honor that anybody would ask to make that kind of a gesture at the venue where you're promoting events.
32:29 Speaker 03 So Wayne has had as many as three cremation ceremonies in a single weekend. And people, you know.
32:35 Pablo Torre? Bit of a pileup, potentially.
32:39 Speaker 03 And it's funny, people, some people want to go in a turn, some people want to go at the start-finish line, some people want to go in pit row, and Wayne accommodates it all. We took to his attitude right away, and I stayed in touch with Wayne, you know, as the PTFO death correspondent.
32:57 Pablo Torre? Yes.
32:57 Speaker 03 That's part of my job.
32:58 Pablo Torre? This is your beat.
32:59 Speaker 03 Yep, and Wayne, God love him, reached out a couple of days later and said, you know, I was just contacted by another fan who is hoping to spread her husband's ashes at the track. And of course, I asked if I could tag along.
33:13 Pablo Torre? And of course, we assigned you to go down to Florida.
33:17 Speaker 03 Get to Florida, Flem.
33:23 Pablo Torre? Who were you there to meet?
33:25 Speaker 03 So we got to meet this lovely woman named Edna Smith, who was at the track to remember her late husband, Ron, who loved all things racing, all things cars, all things mechanical.
33:39 Speaker 02 He always was very avid about air and space, and cars, and fast cars. We probably had, in his lifetime of cars, he had 30-some cars, and my friends could attest to that. And they were all very unusual cars, and fun, fun to drive.
33:58 Speaker 03 Did he have a favorite, favorite car? Favorite kind?
34:01 Speaker 02 Yeah. He had an E-Type Jaguar XKE. That was a nice car. That was probably his favorite that he ever had.
34:10 Speaker 03 So you were married to James Bond, is what you're saying?
34:14 Speaker 02 Or wannabe.
34:17 Pablo Torre? So as we're watching Edna stand on the track with you, whose idea was it to scatter Ron's ashes across the track?
34:26 Speaker 03 She wanted to do something that honored him, celebrated his life, the things that he loved, but then also would give her an eternal connection to him, that she could watch races there, she could return to the track, and always be sort of closer to him. So it was Edna's idea.
34:44 Speaker 02 The ashes sat for a while before I thought about what I could do to, in honor of his memory. And the first thing I came up with was to go skydiving. So I did. In January this year, I took Ron's ashes up skydiving. And I was really, really nervous, but it was the mission accomplished. I was just covered with his ashes all over me because the wind blew the wrong way. And it was like, oh, my heavens. But it was, yeah, it was awesome, really awesome. And then I, you know, I still had half of his ashes left. So I'm thinking, you know, what else can I do?
35:27 Speaker 02 And my friends kind of helped me with the idea of the Sebring Racetrack, you know, take his ashes over there.
35:34 Pablo Torre? And to be clear, we are honored that she allowed us to be there for it.
35:39 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, it was, we were sort of humbled by that. And we approached it that way, that we were there to observe and to not get in the way. And we understood that this was a, this was a very sort of important solemn moment.
35:52 Pablo Torre? Yeah, and I want to make clear too, that one of my real joys on this show is to send people out into the world, you often in specific. And then finally find out what this religious, profound ceremony for Edna and Ron was like. And so I have not seen this video yet. So let's hit play.
36:20 Pablo Torre? Beautiful blue sky.
36:23 Pablo Torre? Edna in the backseat of a convertible?
36:25 Speaker 03 Yep. And they let us put a GoPro behind her.
36:30 Speaker 03 So she's got Ron's remains in a Ziploc baggie, and she's in a convertible provided by Wayne.
36:40 Speaker 03 And we are going down the main straightaway. She's reaching into the Ziploc bag, and she is throwing Ron. And you can hear her giggling, right? She's giggling.
36:56 Speaker 03 And she's talking to him, right? She's smiling, she's giggling, she's talking to him.
37:02 Speaker 03 Every 10 seconds, a handful of Ron is going on to the straightaway at Sebring.
37:06 Pablo Torre? And also everywhere else, I think.
37:10 Speaker 03 Ron is in the car, he's in the seats. And Ron's going all over Edna, too.
37:15 Pablo Torre? Oh, yeah. Ron is omnipresent.
37:20 Pablo Torre? Yes, she's emptying the Ziploc.
37:25 Pablo Torre? Rarely is cremation also a joyride.
37:30 Speaker 03 Yeah, at one point, so then we were in a minivan in front of them as well. And they were stepping on the gas, because it's hard to be on...
37:38 Pablo Torre? Her hair's blowing in the breeze, her sunglasses are on, she's grinning.
37:43 Speaker 03 The way she explained it was kind of like, Ron wouldn't be jealous, but he would be so happy that she chose this as a way to sort of memorialize him. This is what he loved, and to see her so happy, too.
37:58 Speaker 03 Because you cannot get on this track and not floor it, right? It's like, they gave us access to the track, and it was like, I kept going, "Punch it, punch it, Wayne, punch it." When she got out of the car, she patted her pants, and just poofs of smoke, her ash came up. And I love that.
38:16 Pablo Torre? Yes!
38:16 Speaker 03 I just love that. You can see, you can see, there are, I mean, Ron, God love him, and there ended up being handprints, fingerprints. It's funny how quickly you get connected to somebody like that when they share a moment like this. And I went out, because there were still piles of ashes every so often. We all kind of went out and said goodbye to Ron.
38:41 Speaker 03 Now you understand why people are willing to go to jail to do this because it means...
38:45 Pablo Torre? It's beautiful, man.
38:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, it really means something more than just going to a gravestone.
38:50 Pablo Torre? Well, it's absurd and it's beautiful and it is, of course, deeply serious. It's also lighthearted and something we can celebrate
39:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
39:01 Pablo Torre? as we marvel upon the ridiculous nature of what it means to be a human being.
39:08 Speaker 03 Just so, something so poetic and beautiful about this ceremony and the fact that it is a mess.
39:14 Pablo Torre? Yes.
39:14 Speaker 03 That it's unpredictable, that the ashes go everywhere. When was the last time you were at a traditional funeral or a cemetery and people were giggling and laughing and talking to the deceased? It's so rare. And sort of, it was a celebration. And I think that's part of the changing death rituals in America. That's what people want. They want a celebration of life and, boy, you just saw it there in living color.
39:39 Pablo Torre? Yes. Ron is going to be a part of that track, a part of Edna, and also definitely in the upholstery, I think, based on just the statistical distribution of what I was witnessing there in the video.
39:54 Speaker 03 Well, and here's the thing. Ron is also a part of your favorite correspondent, Ron. At one point, Ron blew into our camera, into our microphone cover. Ron, boy, Ron gets around.
40:07 Pablo Torre? I just cannot say this enough. Thank you to Edna for letting us celebrate Ron with her.
40:12 Speaker 03 Yeah.
40:13 Pablo Torre? Because it reminds me of what we started the story with, which is Ryan, diehard hockey fan, who didn't have the same welcome mat laid out for him after he tried to do this for his loved one.
40:27 Speaker 03 But luckily, that was not the end of the story for Ryan and Kyle and the Colorado Avalanche.
40:46 Pablo Torre? Okay, so now we're back in Colorado, Flem, with the story of Ryan Clark and his best friend, Kyle Stark. And you mentioned that this was not the end for Ryan, his banning from his favorite building for the rest of that season. So what the [__] happened?
41:02 Speaker 03 Something magical happened. Once Kyle became a part of Ball Arena.
41:07 Speaker 13 Sweeping it far side, delivers.
41:09 Speaker 03 They win that game against the Leafs, 5-4 in overtime.
41:12 Speaker 13 Marching down deep, shoots and scores! Devon Taves rips it past Campbell and the comeback is complete.
41:24 Speaker 03 Then they go on this incredible streak. They don't lose another game inside Kyle's arena for a month, which is unheard of, right? It's unheard of.
41:34 Speaker 13 Shuts it, scores. The Avalanche beat the division rival Minnesota Wild 4-3 in a shootout at Ball Arena. Terry Pitt scores. Wrenniscog, the overtime winner.
41:52 Speaker 03 It's unheard of in hockey, especially as they're trying to build toward the playoffs. And as a Red Wings fan, I'm watching the Avalanche going, "What is going on with it? The Avalanche can't lose."
42:06 Speaker 13 Here's McCarr, loses it to Arturri, Lekanen has scored. He set his team in overtime to the Stanley Cup Finals.
42:17 Pablo Torre? All I can think about, of course, is that Ryan can't be there. He's at home watching all of these games. He cannot witness this streak because he's been banned.
42:27 Speaker 03 But you know, I think in Ryan's mind, it's perfect.
42:30 Speaker 05 That's my boy helping him out, is all I can say, you know? That was an extra body power play. So you're going, you know, you're going six on four as opposed to, you know, five on four. And, you know, everybody in that corner, he's grabbing their legs. "Yeah, hold on bud, you're gonna stay here."
42:53 Pablo Torre? It is hard to deny the impact of Kyle Stark.
42:57 Speaker 05 It was awesome to see, it was awesome to know that he was there during that whole timeframe, that whole, that whole play out. And I'm sorry that I look away, I just try not to break down again, because it's, yeah, it's, it's still fresh, even though it's been a few.
43:13 Speaker 03 Part of the emotion, though, is joy, right?
43:16 Speaker 05 Oh, yes, yes, absolutely, yes. Like, when they dropped that banner, I wish I could have been there for that game, because they should put Kyle's name on the bottom of it, you know? Or at least, at least his initials on the cup in the corner, you know?
43:32 Speaker 05 Like, what is this KS? Don't worry about that, just, just hang it in that, you know? Take that layer, that layer off, put a fresh one on.
43:40 Pablo Torre? We're listening to Ryan, yet another person in this episode getting emotional in a car. Celebrate what his team, their team, pulled off, thanks to his best friend.
43:52 Speaker 06 Manson to McKinnon, bouncing puck, and a goal! Artur Lekin makes it 2-1 Colorado.
44:00 Pablo Torre? His team won the Stanley Cup! The dream, the dream, Flem.
44:07 Speaker 03 Man, can they spread some Kyle in Detroit?
44:10 Speaker 06 Five seconds to go. Up it comes to the line. Colorado has won the Stanley Cup.
44:19 Pablo Torre? And in the present tense, of course, Ryan can go back to Ball Arena.
44:25 Speaker 03 He was, he was only sort of kept out of the arena for the rest of that season, and then he was allowed to, to come back.
44:32 Pablo Torre? You can go back to the building where his favorite team plays, and when he is there now, I imagine that all of this feels, feels different.
44:43 Speaker 03 Different, but in a, in a great way. And so now, every time, again, you saw it with Edna, you see it with Ryan, he feels Kyle's presence there. He talks to Kyle when he's in that arena. He's got a, a place where he can sort of visit his friend forever now.
45:02 Pablo Torre? And I am just left, at the end of this episode, wondering about that question, which is when Kyle said...
45:10 Speaker 05 I'm like sitting there going, who's gonna be that person that can do it for me? When, you know?
45:16 Pablo Torre? The biggest question posed in this episode, maybe.
45:20 Speaker 03 Yeah, I think what we've discovered is there's now a new highest form of friendship and fandom, right? It's like somebody willing to spread your ashes. Wildcat, spread your ashes at your favorite sports arena. But as for Ryan, it's a little bit sad, right? His person is gone. He doesn't have a person to spread his ashes. And so, as the official, now lifelong, PTFO death correspondent, I went ahead and volunteered. Right here, Ryan, I got you. I got you. I got media credentials. I'll put you wherever you want to go.
46:01 Speaker 03 And I know we're joking and laughing, but you know, at the end of this process, I got to tell you, I'm 100% serious. I will be there for Ryan when he needs me.
46:12 Pablo Torre? Dave Fleming, I have never doubted your sincerity on these assignments, and I already, whenever it needs to be, long into the future, I am ready.
46:27 Speaker 03 Well, we're going to turn you into golf balls, Pablo, so.
46:40 Pablo Torre? This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.
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Previous Behind the Scenes of the Yankee Wife-Swap Scandal (PTFO Vault) Next PTFO Exclusive: We Followed the Money in the NFL Union Scandal. So Did the FBI. Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated