Share & Gift & Tell with Domonique Foxworth and David Samson

How does star treatment really work, behind clubhouse doors? (And what do you do when a player demands tickets for both his wife and his mistress?) Can you just microdose Ozempic like it’s shrooms? And what’s the worst gift you’ve ever received? Plus: Barry Bonds, “posse,” body dysmorphia, and a picture of a bicycle. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Pablo Torre?

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• 0:44Pablo Torre?

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• 1:28Pablo Torre?

  Two slices of cheese and a star, and two pickles side by side. So every bite gets both. And every time one's ordered, a cowbell sound rings in the kitchen. That's the grill master's cue to put a fresh patty on the grill. My move? QPC, fries, and a drink after a long day of recording. That is my happy place. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Fries and a Drink, now $8 for a limited time only, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska, and California. And for delivery. Fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery.

• 2:11Pablo Torre?

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• 2:19Speaker 01

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• 2:56Pablo Torre?

  Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today, we're gonna find out what this sound is.

• 3:03Speaker 02

  You a sad piece. Surprise!

• 3:07Pablo Torre?

  Right after this ad.

• 3:10Speaker 03

  You're listening to Giraffe King's Network.

• 3:25Speaker 04

  I have a sandwich that I had to custom-build myself, which I did.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  Are you, are you talking about making a sandwich? Do you call it a custom build? When was the last time you fed yourself? Yo, check out the build on this sandwich.

• 3:38Speaker 04

  I did custom-build the sandwich, and I can't test it and look at it because of our delay. I've been sitting in place for 15 minutes waiting, and I could have gotten the order myself and checked to make sure that it was right, and now I have to think about it through this entire show, which also does not make my brain happy. You're not catching me in a great moment.

• 4:01Speaker 02

  Oh, man. What'd you get? What's your custom build?

• 4:03Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, what do we got? Can we guess? Can we guess?

• 4:05Speaker 04

  You won't be able to.

• 4:07Pablo Torre?

  What? He has such little faith in our ability to predict David Samson's whims, Dominique.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  I think he got a Lunchable.

• 4:14Pablo Torre?

  You got, you got, you got a ham, you got a cheese, you got a little, a little Capri Sun.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  He's not gonna eat ham.

• 4:22Pablo Torre?

  Oh, I said ham.

• 4:23Speaker 04

  I literally never eat ham in my life.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  Religious reasons.

• 4:25Pablo Torre?

  That's on me. Hand up.

• 4:27Speaker 04

  Pablo, I am despondent right now.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:30Pablo Torre?

  That's on me.

• 4:31Speaker 02

  You don't seem like a tuna guy.

• 4:34Speaker 04

  Certainly not from a store or restaurant, no.

• 4:38Pablo Torre?

  A store or restaurant? Where the [__] are you getting your tuna?

• 4:41Speaker 02

  You gotta catch it.

• 4:41Speaker 04

  I'll make my own tuna.

• 4:43Speaker 02

  What, you got the tuna from a store?

• 4:46Speaker 04

  No, no, I will make tuna from a can with Miracle Whip and Dijon mustard and green onion and avocado and cucumber. I will make that. Obviously always with water and you drain it, but I will never order tuna in a restaurant.

• 5:01Pablo Torre?

  This sandwich so far sounds like it's gonna be terrible.

• 5:04Speaker 04

  It's amazing, you just haven't figured out what it is.

• 5:07Pablo Torre?

  David, you wanna make the big reveal? What's the big reveal?

• 5:10Speaker 04

  It's turkey with Dijon mustard, lettuce, brie, cheddar, onion, cucumber, jalapeno.

• 5:16Speaker 02

  Oh, I see, that's a build. Yeah, I didn't realize that.

• 5:19Pablo Torre?

  I regret your dubious criticism. That is the work of a structural engineer.

• 5:24Speaker 02

  That's a build. God damn.

• 5:26Speaker 04

  I told you. I don't lie to you guys.

• 5:30Pablo Torre?

  And that in some ways is its own concern.

• 5:51Pablo Torre?

  The share and tell topic I brought with both of you guys is this Juan Soto topic. And there is a part of the John Hayman reporting on this. He's the guy who's been on top of all of this. He tends to be on top of Scott Boris represented athletes, if you've been paying attention to the game within the game. But he has great color on this story, David. And so I just wanna read a part of the reporting. Of course, Juan Soto, now a New York Met. They outbid the New York Yankees. The Mets paid $760 million over 15 years, a record price. All of that stuff is true. But it seems like one thing the Yankees would not budge on, which was startling to me, was the inclusion of a suite. A luxury suite.

• 6:32Pablo Torre?

  Quote, "The Yankees felt they couldn't give a suite to Soto as part of this deal when Judge, Aaron Judge, pays for his suite and even Derek Jeter paid. They were willing to discount a suite but not alter their precedent." Meanwhile, Steve Cohen, one of the 100 richest men. in the world, apparently, quote, didn't give the suite much of a thought. When he has his eyes on a prize, he is singularly focused. And so Juan Soto got the super duper duper star treatment. And it made me think about the ways in which there is, in fact, levels of superstar treatment and gifts and benefits and privileges. And both of you guys happen to have, I would say, uh, personal viewpoints, I assume informed by your roles in your past lives.

• 7:16Speaker 04

  Let's first say that it was 765 over 15. Let's then say that there is no scenario under which Juan Soto chose the Mets because there was a suite included in the deal. The way these deals are negotiated is that you get to the rider after, which is season tickets or suite on the road, meaning a hotel room. Whether or not you pay for that, or whether you have the player pay for the difference between a regular room and a suite. When there's season tickets, where the location is for the player's family, whether it's in the regular family section or elsewhere. All of that is extra stuff. No player that I've ever negotiated with had it as a dispositive moment.

• 8:01Speaker 04

  You're not including the suites? It's absurd. And by the way, last thing on this, if the Yankees really were competing to win, all they had to do was gross up the amount that they were paying Soto and tell Soto to buy the suite. And Soto would have been at par. Gross up, meaning the price of the suite each year. You can even include what the taxes would have been on that. I've been grossing up people forever. It is normal. So it's, thank you. I handed that to you. I'm so glad that you're paying attention because you're not on your phone. So I don't buy into this notion that that went into the decision making process.

• 8:41Speaker 02

  But I think the broader point that you, that I think is probably interesting about this conversation is not this specific negotiation, but superstar treatment. And the, what I took out of this particular article was. I feel very strongly about organizational culture. And I think part of setting a culture of an organization, particularly in professional sports, is about making it clear what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. And I tend to believe that those things are non-negotiable. Because once you start to bend on those things, you are a bit like compromising the culture. And I think I've defined organizational culture for a bunch of different people, a bunch of different times. Because I think in sports, we talk about culture a lot, and we rarely understand it.

• 9:25Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, it feels vague and fluffy.

• 9:27Speaker 04

  But they are till they're not, Dominique. Because I never gave a no-trade clause for a long-term deal ever until Giancarlo Stanton. And it was a deal-breaker for him, and we gave him a no-trade clause. So everything is principled and everything's culture, until it's not. Until Barry Bonds wants a recliner, and you say, "Come on, nobody has a recliner." Hey, I'm Barry Bonds. All right, we're getting the recliner for you.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  A no-trade clause is different from recliner. I think a recliner is a better example. But I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm saying, so first of all, I think it's important to define what culture is in an organization. And I think it's like the acceptable processes and behaviors. And those are different from organization to organization. And I think the recliner point is more interesting. The no-trade clause, to me, doesn't bleed into the culture of an organization. That's just like, I mean, maybe you seem to disagree.

• 10:20Speaker 04

  I do, Dominique, because think about that as a player. You're paying attention. You know contractual provisions of all of your teammates. And if we give an advantage to one teammate in the guarantee provision that we didn't give to another, they know it in about 45 seconds.

• 10:36Speaker 02

  And so maybe that's different in MLB than in football, but I didn't feel that way at all. But I mean, I think it's fair to say that all of your decisions and all of your actions impact your culture to some degree. Some of them are negligible and some of them are enormous. And I think you're willing to bend on the negligible ones for players who are worth it. The question is, are you gonna bend on the big ones? That's where the rubber meets the road in a conversation about Juan Soto or about any organizational culture.

• 11:07Pablo Torre?

  I think it's interesting, though, that Dominique's brain went to a place where mine did, which was... There is something, though, about the furniture that you have to see every day.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Right.

• 11:16Pablo Torre?

  There's something, David. Famously, Barry Bonds had the double wide locker as well. You know, like, there is a list of examples throughout sports history. I mean, Giannis Antetokounmpo, you might say that Thanasis, his brother, just being around, him getting the other deal.

• 11:32Speaker 02

  Like, is that a benefit, like, an extra wide double locker? On the outside, absolutely, yes, having a whole roster spot reserved for your brother. But the funny thing is, anytime you talk to anybody about Thanasis Antetokounmpo, and I interviewed him for my show that's more highly rated than yours.

• 11:48Pablo Torre?

  How dare you.

• 11:49Speaker 02

  And anytime you talk to anybody about him, they talk about how he was the one who helped to instill and institute the culture of the team that was celebrated. When someone was slacking, even though Thanasis wasn't a high producer, he was the one that would call them to the carpet. When someone had to say something to Giannis, he was the one who did it. And even though he wasn't a great player, I think, I find that incredibly interesting because I would see that as...

• 12:16Pablo Torre?

  The ultimate.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's similar to, like, how, right now, people see the Bronny situation.

• 12:21Pablo Torre?

  Right.

• 12:22Speaker 02

  It's like, oh, well, this organization isn't serious about winning if they're giving a roster spot to a family member. But it's funny, because obviously, I'm not on that team, but anyone who you talk to who's been on that team, and even guys who are gone now, who have no reason to, like, protect him, would say that, no, he was important to the culture of this team.

• 12:38Pablo Torre?

  What I find so interesting, David, also, just to sort of characterize this, it's interesting to think about this as a zero-sum game, right? Like, in terms of real estate roster spots, there are only so many of these that can be given out, and so someone is actively not getting something if the super-duper-duper star is getting it. And your view, in terms of a guy who had to worry about, okay, here's the payroll, here's the composition of the clubhouse, your view was how, how often was that challenged by this privilege?

• 13:09Speaker 04

  Almost every year. So, the two examples in sports, or baseball, is when you're drafting someone internationally from the Dominican, and the Busconi wants you to take the kid's brother, the kid's cousin, and the kid's second cousin. And you give, you know, 50 grand to each of them just because you want to spend 800 grand to get the good player. And so you're willing to take on all the extra stuff. And it goes all the way to the big leagues, where with Vladimir Guerrero, we had to give a roster spot to his brother, Wilton Guerrero. We even got Wilton Guerrero through arbitration because Vladimir, which is Vladimir Guerrero Jr.'s father, Vladimir Guerrero, senior, Hall of Famer, he had his brother and mother with him in Montreal.

• 13:52Speaker 04

  They lived together, they ate meals together, and Wilton was part of the package. And so for us, it was necessary until he became too expensive because he was getting service time and not really all that productive.

• 14:07Pablo Torre?

  How was he on the culture? How was, was he Thanasis like in terms of impacting the culture of your clubhouse?

• 14:11Speaker 04

  Absolutely not. And it's amazing thing what you're saying, Dominique. I had not heard that before. That's a position I would not still value in terms of a roster spot in basketball where there's so few of them. My, growing up, there were 11. I think now there's 15 or 16. It's still not very many. That's an amazing piece of real estate. And the whole Bronny thing, don't even get me started.

• 14:36Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, 15 players now.

• 14:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, and they deserve everything.

• 14:38Pablo Torre?

  I don't want to relitigate Bronny, but Dominique, as somebody who played in the league, how obvious was it on the teams you played for that actually there were guys who were getting stuff that you guys could not dream of getting?

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, so football is, is kind of different in that, um, there's the quarterbacks and then there's everybody else. And there's the good quarterbacks and then there's everybody else. I never played on a team with like a Hall of Fame quarterback, but there is something about, and this is a broader cultural thing, there's something about the culture of football that's very different from some, from basketball. I don't know baseball culture nearly as well or hockey culture, but basketball culture, I feel like I know pretty well. And it's very, the hierarchy in basketball culture is obviously very clear and such that it's understood and not bucked against, and there's no shame. It's almost like pride in being that guy who can, who can subvert the rules and who can show up late.

• 15:35Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, Joel Embiid, I was gonna say, like famously just got in trouble because Tyrese Maxey was calling him out, allegedly, reportedly, for having...

• 15:44Pablo Torre?

  The temerity to show up and treat time as a construct.

• 15:48Speaker 02

  Gall? Was it mitigated or unmitigated?

• 15:50Pablo Torre?

  It seems like it was increasingly mitigated. Yeah.

• 15:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I mean, I know that's a thing and you hear it about all types of great players who have success. And football, on the other hand, I've been on teams where guys obviously had like some special treatment, but it was minimally special. Like, they didn't have the suite in the hotel when we traveled. They didn't show up. They showed up to meetings five minutes early, just like everyone else. And there's a very like, uh, team oriented thing about football players where it's like, the one thing I remember my rookie year, I'm sorry, go ahead, David.

• 16:21Speaker 04

  Do you know what your teammates have when you're traveling?

• 16:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:25Speaker 04

  So you just said that with some certainty. Do you get a room list with the actual room numbers? Of the players in where they are in the hotel?

• 16:36Speaker 02

  Um, no, but I mean, I know where everybody is staying. So there, there's a table put out with all the keys on it, with all the numbers on it. The team is pretty big. And then you end up on the same floor as certain guys. Like, I've had rooms next to, uh, uh, the star players on the teams before and we all get up and go.

• 16:52Pablo Torre?

  Do you guys ever do adjoining room slumber parties?

• 16:54Speaker 02

  No, we never did a adjoining room slumber party.

• 16:56Pablo Torre?

  I would do a joining room slumber.

• 16:56Speaker 04

  You used to have roommates. Early on, thirty, forty years ago, players in baseball, they would room with a teammate in a double room. Now the keys are on the table, Dominique, but there's numbers. They put the number, but often it's with names that's not, not the real names. They check in under fake names. But you know that if you've got the same last two numbers as the team president, you know that's a suite. And so we would fool around with what we do with certain envelopes so the players wouldn't know who has the suite.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  We didn't have that situation. I, I imagine that some people, and also that it didn't really care. I think the, that competitiveness wasn't there. And also, like I mentioned, like there was bed check. Like, that was, that was one thing. Some people would have bed check and we thought at first, when we first got there, everybody had bed check. But of course, like, nobody was going into the thirty-two-year-old starting quarterback's room and saying, are you there at eleven o'clock? So there, but they were there at eleven o'clock. It was like these, we only traveled but so many times. So those were the things that were slightly different. I will say that the, the big Advantage that I remember was my rookie year. We were 13 and 3. We won in San Diego on New Year's Eve at the Chargers.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  And we were headed to the flight, headed to the plane, because we fly back immediately, headed to the plane to fly back home. We'd won the division and it was New Year's Eve. And Champ was like, we should go to Vegas.

• 18:24Pablo Torre?

  This is Champ Bailey, greatest cornerback arguably of all time.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  Don't argue it, it's a fact. And he was like, we should go to Vegas. And I was like, huh? Okay, tomorrow? He's like, no, from here. I'll go ask Coach. I'll see if, if you can come too. And he said, I'll go ask Coach. And so he got a private jet. We went from San Diego to Vegas and celebrated New Year's Eve on the rooftop at Tao between the Prime Minister of a Caribbean nation and Britney Spears, if I remember correctly.

• 18:53Speaker 04

  Where's the button that I can press?

• 18:59Pablo Torre?

  That's great.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  I, I, there's no way that anyone else said, can I stay in this city? Or can I go to Vegas? That Coach would have said, yeah. Get your ass on that plane. And would any of us ask? No, it's absurd. But Champ, that's the one thing that I knew that I witnessed in my first year. But from then on, I never really saw it happen much after that. Like every now and then someone would stay if they, we played in their hometown. Someone would stay to be with their family and then come back on Wednesday.

• 19:26Pablo Torre?

  By the Urban Meyer style, you're saying?

• 19:28Speaker 02

  Nothing Urban Meyer.

• 19:29Pablo Torre?

  Stay over?

• 19:30Speaker 02

  No.

• 19:30Pablo Torre?

  You know, when you're the coach of the Jaguars, maybe go to the restaurant that has your name in it.

• 19:34Speaker 02

  Never do anything Urban Meyer.

• 19:34Pablo Torre?

  You have no room for the Holy Ghost. Um, David, when you're the president of a baseball team, how much were you saying no to stuff? In the flow of a season when it came to special treatment?

• 19:46Speaker 04

  There were more no's than yeses. But baseball, the baseball season just has a different rhythm than the football season. They're very, you're playing 162 games in 185 days. And that's after 30 spring training games in 34 days. So it is just the grind of the season that the, the staying in cities later, that rarely comes up because there's so few off days during the season. But there's stuff that other stuff is where the permission comes. It's in the clubhouse. It's special treatment for guests. It's location of seats. It's things like that that come up. Hotel rooms.

• 20:24Pablo Torre?

  What's the most absurd ask, given this array of possibilities that you hated to get because it felt like way over the line, but was very common?

• 20:33Speaker 04

  Uh, to have a player take both a wife and a girlfriend on a family trip on the plane.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  That's, that's amazing.

• 20:41Speaker 04

  That was, that was the end of our families traveling with the team.

• 20:45Pablo Torre?

  Wait a minute. So just to spell that out.

• 20:47Speaker 04

  We had to make a whole set of rules, Pablo. You want to find out? We had a whole set of rules that I developed with Larry Bynfest about what relationship was required to travel with the team on a family trip. And I said, this is, I can't deal with this.

• 21:01Pablo Torre?

  Wait. You developed a citizenship test?

• 21:05Speaker 04

  Big time.

• 21:06Pablo Torre?

  For someone's relationship?

• 21:07Speaker 04

  You have no.

• 21:07Pablo Torre?

  What was the criteria? What were some of the criteria?

• 21:12Speaker 04

  I needed proof of wedding. I didn't want engagement. I didn't want, I needed proof. I'm talking like a document.

• 21:18Pablo Torre?

  Wedding, engagement wasn't good enough.

• 21:20Speaker 04

  No, no. Engagement.

• 21:22Pablo Torre?

  You need paperwork.

• 21:23Speaker 04

  I want paperwork.

• 21:26Speaker 02

  So there's, we did, again, this is, this is different.

• 21:29Pablo Torre?

  David said, I want paperwork with a level of just arousal there that I just.

• 21:33Speaker 04

  No, it's a pain in the ass, Pablo, to deal with this. It really was not fun. The traveling secretary would come to me and talk about the layout of where rooms are in the hotel because where players were, this is such a bigger deal than people would think. You have to have girlfriends in a different place than wives, different floors, different parts of the stadium where, where people are sitting. Certain family members don't sit near each other. It's a whole McGilla.

• 22:01Speaker 02

  We're talking girlfriends. So like, I could understand wives not wanting to be with girlfriends, but we're not talking about wives and girlfriends of the same player.

• 22:11Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  We're talking. Okay, yeah. No, I mean, we, we had that situation on our teams also in the travel secretary, but it's only eight home games. The travel secretary, you could, I, I mean, I remember guys having to put people in different spots and then that becomes an argument because there is one spot where you get access to friends and family, like the little backstage area. And then if you don't get access to that, you recognize that you a side piece. Surprise. Surprise, I'm in the 300 level.

• 22:39Speaker 04

  Customs stopped you.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  And I'm outside. Oh, I don't get the wristband this week?

• 22:44Pablo Torre?

  This is incredible.

• 22:45Speaker 04

  Dominic, this is all true, and I love that you're backing me on this. And now picture 81 home games.

• 22:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that sounds.

• 22:51Speaker 04

  And picture a stadium that's not full. It's a total nightmare.

• 22:56Speaker 02

  We are, we are far, far away from the building championship culture now, just like, just staying afloat. Hopefully, we don't have a fight in the stands between wives and girlfriends. That's, that is a lot. The, the biggest benefit, I think, to like the star players was also a benefit to the team for us in football. Because football practice is intense. And so that was the thing that stood out where we were like, damn, must be nice. You ain't got to practice today? And it was, one, because they were, had enough credibility, they knew they would be fine. But two, because their bodies were breaking down. So it was like, it's kind of a, a special dispensation, but it also was like, we need you on Sunday. So how about you chill out on Wednesday, Thursday, Friday?

• 23:41Speaker 02

  We get you some drugs on Sunday morning and you go play. And then you recover next week by watching film and not practicing.

• 23:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's a whole nother thing is trying to discern injury from not wanting to do infield or not wanting to take BP. And so we're monitoring always the trainers and the training staff. And that's why we mark everything down of any player who walks in and what they say, what's bothering them. We do it both for coverage and workers comp purposes, but also to understand who's just hung over. And so what I would try to do with the players is just say, be honest. We don't want to put you on the report if you're just on the training table because you have a headache and your headache is because you were out all night. Do it. Go sleep in a dark. Room, but we're only gonna put you on the report if you're hurt. So that's a, that's another funny thing that goes on during the course of a season behind the scenes.

• 24:30Speaker 02

  How, how prevalent is that in baseball? Because I, that to me sounds so, and again, it's about the length of the season, but that sounds so absurd to me. In the football context, like any player who did that, it would be like, it would feel like an affront to the team.

• 24:44Pablo Torre?

  This is a big percentage of your schedule.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, guys would be so mad at a guy who showed like, hey, we gotta work. Like you showed up to, I've been on teams where, where a guy had a drinking problem and showed up to practice drunk all the time. And we wanted him out more than the coaches did. Like it's our livelihood and, and safety frankly is dependent on, and I guess baseball is a very individual. Team sport. So it's like, all right, that asshole wants to do that with his career. It's not gonna impact the way I hit or the way I feel.

• 25:13Speaker 04

  Well, some of them, I, I think that if I did the math, I was a president for 208 Sunday games. Roughly, if I had a guess.

• 25:21Speaker 02

  Nothing more fun than math. Let's do some more math.

• 25:24Speaker 04

  205 of 208, someone came in hungover on a, for a Sunday game from a Saturday night to an afternoon game. Uh, and, and more than one player, some players were better. My, my, I love you Miguel, but, and I've said this to your face, but Miguel Cabrera could hit the ball and he would just aim for the middle ball. And it was just incredible what he was able to do.

• 25:46Pablo Torre?

  I guess.

• 25:46Speaker 04

  Other, other guys were not able to perform, um, when they were hungover.

• 25:51Pablo Torre?

  So I was gonna get to that, just so that, look.

• 25:54Speaker 04

  I love you, Miguel, by the way.

• 25:56Pablo Torre?

  We certainly believe that less than we did before you said that story.

• 25:59Speaker 04

  No, I really do, actually.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, even though you snitched on him.

• 26:02Pablo Torre?

  I would, I, I was gonna wonder aloud about the bottom line performance. Criterion of just, hey, is this guy actually just worth it? Right? He's still hitting, he's still the guy we need to give the ball to at the end of the game. Um, LeBron, again, famously, just to add another example from recent history. Remember when Phil Jackson got in trouble for the posse comment? He got in trouble because he was objecting to the treatment that LeBron was begrudgingly given by Pat Riley, who was running the heat. Because LeBron. LeBron got to dictate his travel schedule, his friends, like his business partner Maverick Carter, as well as his other associates that he wanted to bring along.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  He didn't get in trouble because he objected to that. He got in trouble because his.

• 26:45Pablo Torre?

  He used the word that felt like it did not reflect an understanding of the legitimacy of those guys and also the racial history of America in general. All of these things are true.

• 26:53Speaker 04

  Thank you for clarifying that, Dominique.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're welcome.

• 26:56Pablo Torre?

  But the point being that, uh, he's LeBron, of course.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  Many jobs of the black man. I gotta do everything around here.

• 27:02Pablo Torre?

  That's right.

• 27:03Speaker 04

  Player empowerment's a real thing.

• 27:05Pablo Torre?

  Yes, I'm talking about player empowerment, right? And what we're really talking about is superstars getting to dictate terms in a way that reflects their understanding of the scarcity of their talents.

• 27:16Speaker 04

  The hardest thing to do is when a player's been empowered and they're really, really worth it. And then time passes and they're not worth it. And it's really hard to claw back the power that you've given the player.

• 27:39Pablo Torre?

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• 28:23Pablo Torre?

  With a beautiful design and cutting-edge performance, it helps you unlock more possibilities. It's the thinnest, lightest XPS laptop yet with touchscreen, a backlit keyboard and long-lasting battery life to power you through your day. Built with a durable aluminum chassis, weighing just 2.2 pounds and Intel Core processors, it's Fast, reliable, and portable enough to keep up wherever you go. Visit dell.com to explore the possibilities with XPS. While shopping, you'll also find great perks like Dell Rewards, fast free shipping, premium support, and financing with flexible payment options. Plus, you can find great deals on monitors and accessories. That means you can score a whole new setup now for less. This Black Friday sale is one you don't want to miss.

• 29:08Pablo Torre?

  Head to dell.com/deals. That's dell.com/deals.

• 29:17Pablo Torre?

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• 30:01Pablo Torre?

  so you can compare listings with greater confidence. And with more than four million listings, CarGurus has the biggest selection of cars. So it's easier than ever to find the right car and the right deal. It is no wonder CarGurus is the number one most visited car shopping site according to SimilarWeb's estimated traffic data. So buy or sell your next car today with CarGurus at cargurus.com. Go to cargurus.com to make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C-A-R-G-U-R-U-S dot com. cargurus.com.

• 30:40Speaker 05

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• 31:11Pablo Torre?

  All right. It's time for me to take the wheel back. There's another story, David, that I thought of you when I was reading it because it is titled, "The Allure of Microdosing Ozempic." So there is a whole, and Dominique is giving a face that I think is the right reaction when I say, "David Sampson, I thought of you when I was reading this story." And the subhead is, "Some people are taking tiny amounts of weight loss medications, hoping to drop pounds while avoiding side effects. Does it work?" And the spoiler alert on this is that there is no real, solid, scientific consensus, but it does seem like there is a community of people that is seeing benefits from this in a way that feels both encouraging, because it speaks to, again, the way the body's chemistry

• 31:51Pablo Torre?

  and the science of both weight loss and hunger are actually shaped by levers we can pull, but also seems like it's too early to spike the football. We've solved the problem of people struggling to lose weight. And I think of David Dominique, because I don't think a lot of people know this necessarily. And David, forgive me if this is not the intro that you wanted, but weight is something that you personally have had to reckon with, despite the fact that no one would look at you and say, "That is a guy who is struggling with weight."

• 32:23Speaker 04

  Well, you can't judge a book by its cover. Yes, I have always, I've never been what other people would consider overweight, but I have always had a tremendous body dysmorphia issue. And so I view myself, right now, actually, as not, as looking about as bad as you can look at the end of a day like this. So I know what you're talking about. And I've looked at all sorts of herbs and all sorts of ways to lose weight. And it turns out that the best way that I ever found to lose weight was to be actually sick and I had a disorder. And it turns out that that's probably not the best plan either. So it's a multi-billion dollar industry full of bad plans.

• 33:06Pablo Torre?

  And David, when you say you were sick and had a disorder, that was the way you lost weight? What are you describing there? Just so we can bring people into this conversation.

• 33:15Speaker 04

  I was an anorexic.

• 33:18Speaker 04

  For a bunch of years while I was running a professional sports team, while running marathons, I was sick.

• 33:25Pablo Torre?

  When did it develop? When did it develop?

• 33:28Speaker 04

  It really started when I was very young. I always had this weird view of myself. I'm always, and even as I sit here today, all these years later, all I'm thinking about when I do shows or when I'm in public and when I'm in private, it's every moment that I'm awake is I'm thinking of my stomach. It's all I think about. So if you ever look at me in pictures, I'm often, I cross my hands over my front so people can't see. I'm very cognizant of how I look from the back, whether or not I'm flat down by the waist. And when I see a little roll or something like that, it makes me insane. It's a horrible thing to have what I have and it was years of therapy. I was down to 117 pounds in a very public job.

• 34:13Speaker 04

  And I thought that's the best I've ever looked and I still look at those photos because they're on Google. And I still view them as the best I've ever looked in my life. And I would, I would run 20 miles and purposely not eat the entire day. And I would, and while running a baseball team. That's how you lose weight. And now I'm about as heavy as I've ever been at about 139. I used to weigh myself about 25 times a day. After, before and after every time going to the bathroom, before and after every course of a meal. I mean, I was, I was sick. I really have never talked about that. That's a disappointing thing to say out loud.

• 34:52Speaker 02

  I joke about how you have content brain all the time. But I'm not joking. This is the most content brain of all content brain. We can talk about it, it's fine, as long as David is comfortable talking about it. I'm proud to talk about it.

• 35:04Pablo Torre?

  Hold on, hold on. David is clearly comfortable enough to want to talk about this.

• 35:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 35:10Pablo Torre?

  I have a real conversation, real life with David, he can vouch for this. And then I'm reading all these news stories and I'm like, wait a minute. This is something that I want to talk to Dominique and David about because David is as described. I am somebody who has had an incredible metabolism. And Dominique, I've shared this with you, but it's really, it's really just me calling myself out. You know, it's like, oh, wait a minute, am I prediabetic now because I'm not eating healthily? Which is a thing that I have, by the way, last, last blood test, I've gotten out of it. For now.

• 35:38Speaker 04

  We're all pre-diabetic.

• 35:40Pablo Torre?

  I know, we're all, exactly right, we're all day to day, as they say. But the point being that I am feeling as a dad, like I, when David said, "I cover my stomach with my arms," you may notice on the YouTube or DraftKings Network that I was also doing that for the same [bleep] reason. And I am realizing my metabolism is, is done and I need to figure out, uh, my own issues with like, how do I look in public? And Dominique is of course, a former professional athlete, whose physical health has been something he invests in, in a rigorous way. And so here we are, three legs of a [bleep] up tripod, and I just wanted to revel in that for a second.

• 36:21Speaker 02

  We reveled.

• 36:23Speaker 04

  I've been with you both and, and Dominique, you are obviously a very fit, attractive man. And Pablo, I always assumed you were resting your arms, not covering anything. I thought they were on the ledge. I'd say that you look good in butter. There's no question about that.

• 36:39Pablo Torre?

  Great.

• 36:39Speaker 04

  But listen, Pablo, I love you and I love us. But we, exactly.

• 36:46Speaker 04

  You are not a butter face. But I, this is a serious issue. I hate that we're making light of it. I'm not happy to admit, no one wants to talk about this stuff. And I'm, I'm not happy to have to talk about it. It's uncomfortable, but I'll tell you that, that it's not better. Because I still think about it every day. Every day, all day, I think about what I look like, how I feel. I'm very hyper aware of every little thing that happens. I used to be a tremendous picker if I had a blemish anywhere. And so I had to wear gloves to stop myself from picking. So I, I'm aware of all these things that people struggle with and it's not easy.

• 37:28Speaker 04

  And now, I would choose to be a public figure, which I am, but guess what? We're all public figures because of social media. And so even if you're not in the world of media, with your feed or your Instagram or Snapchat, there's kids and adults going through this and it sucks. It just downright sucks. It drains the life out of you. It makes you exhausted to have to be a certain way all the time. And that's the world. And now, I'm a part of it.

• 38:00Pablo Torre?

  David, the word you used, which I think is appropriate, and by the way, I do want to acknowledge, right? Like, the reason I find all of this especially interesting is because we are dudes. And this is typically something that women, of course, are socially conditioned to be horrified by. And we've seen many movies about that. This, I think, relatively less so, which is why I want to lean into it. But you used the word before, which is dysmorphia. And I think that is a good word for this, because it, of course, describes a feeling of profound unease or dissatisfaction, but it also indicates that there is a misalignment of reality and perception. And so when David is the guy, David, who is analyzing a table of hotel key cards with numbers, and he's a guy who is examining a stadium and picking out every little flaw and making sure it's right,

• 38:44Pablo Torre?

  it does track that you would turn that same gaze onto yourself in a way that indicates, even though you're the guy who also, I don't think you've said this explicitly on this show, this bluntly, you're the guy who once ran how many marathons and how many continents in how many days, right? Seven in seven in seven?

• 39:02Speaker 04

  Well, there are only seven.

• 39:04Pablo Torre?

  Okay, well...

• 39:06Speaker 04

  I'm just saying, it's not... I've had more people ask me that. Is that... Did you... You ran on every continent? Yeah, there's only seven.

• 39:15Pablo Torre?

  I feel like that sort of proved my point, actually, the one I was gesturing towards. But, David, the point being that, of course, you're also that guy. You can't turn it off.

• 39:24Speaker 04

  I think there's a lot of people who are just struggle with this. And what the dysmorphia is, is that you see something that other people don't see. Which is why with you two, I do it all the time, both on and off camera. I'm always testing. Hey, are you sort of hearing what I'm hearing and then reacting how I'm reacting to this? Pablo and I spend hours talking about this. And Dominique and I, we've talked about this sort of thing. That's where the testing comes from. I'm always testing.

• 40:01Pablo Torre?

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• 40:45Pablo Torre?

  And all 800-plus clinicians are in-network with major insurers, so you can use your existing insurance instead of paying monthly subscriptions or out-of-network costs. Head to talkiatory.com/ptfo to complete the short assessment and get matched with an in-network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. That's T-A-L-K-I-A-T-R-Y.com/ptfo to get matched in minutes. Talkiatory.com/ptfo. Cozy makes furniture for the part of life that nobody warns you about. Getting the couch into the room, making the room feel like you, and actually living on it spills it all. With Cozy, your home can grow with you by adapting to new spaces, new styles, and every era of your life. It's modular furniture,

• 41:30Pablo Torre?

  so you can actively adjust your furniture to fit any space. It's all built around making the entire home comfortable and easy so that your stuff works with your life, not around it. The covers are washable and interchangeable, so a refresh is only one wash away, and the spill goes from panic to shrug. And it all ships to your door in easy-to-move boxes. Plus, Cozy's free one-on-one design consultations make the whole home vision a lot less intimidating. Cozy has everything you need to make your home feel like it has a plan because Cozy makes every part of the process easy. So, visit Cozy today. That's C-O-Z-E-Y.com, and make yourself at home. Did you know over 75% of Americans are chronically dehydrated?

• 42:14Pablo Torre?

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• 42:58Pablo Torre?

  For a better way to stay hydrated, go to instanthydration.com/ptfo and use my promo code PTFO for over 40% off your first subscription order. It's Instant Hydration's best offer available. That's instanthydration.com/ptfo, promo code PTFO.

• 43:22Pablo Torre?

  I feel like we should, we should go with a bit of a holiday spirit topic. And I want to know the best and worst gifts you guys have received.

• 43:34Speaker 04

  I'm ready to go, Dominique.

• 43:35Pablo Torre?

  So this is David's superpower. David, you give him a prompt, he's like, "Got it?" in a second. And it makes me think that he has contemplated every question I've ever asked anybody, ever.

• 43:46Speaker 04

  This is not rehearsed.

• 43:47Pablo Torre?

  I know.

• 43:48Speaker 04

  This is not rehearsed. I've never heard this question before.

• 43:50Pablo Torre?

  I did not prep you guys about this, so.

• 43:52Speaker 02

  I read the other article getting ready to talk about that, but I'm fine with this. Let's do it.

• 43:55Pablo Torre?

  I think you've talked enough about bodies. Yeah. Spoiler alert.

• 43:58Speaker 02

  And locker rooms.

• 44:00Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 44:01Speaker 04

  My mother and father got me the same desk set three years in a row. The same exact thing when I was in 8th, 9th, and 10th grade. It was a pencil holder. It was a thing where you put your papers on. There were no computers at the time. It was a three-piece set. One was for pens and pencils, one was for a stapler, and one was the square thing that you put on top of your desk. Three years in a row, same one.

• 44:31Speaker 02

  That's the worst, right? Not the best, that's the worst gift.

• 44:33Speaker 04

  Oh, that's the worst.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  Okay, I was just making sure. I mean, I could.

• 44:36Pablo Torre?

  A little hard to tell.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  Sometimes. Surprise.

• 44:39Speaker 04

  Oh, my god. It was horrifying to me at the level of, at the lack of attention to detail or the absolute care.

• 44:49Pablo Torre?

  I believe it's called mens rea when it comes to the criminal law. What is the motive here that you have, you have diagnosed?

• 44:57Speaker 04

  Oh, it's lack of, it's just lack of knowing me or a lack of paying attention, lack of care? Lack of all that stuff. It's horrifying. It's horrifying. It makes you feel totally unappreciated or loved. It's terrible. It's the same frickin' thing.

• 45:11Pablo Torre?

  I do love that the guy who can't stop paying attention to the most microscopic detail is given three years in a row the same gift as if he wasn't giving it the year prior.

• 45:23Speaker 02

  So I'm not a big, I'm not a big gift guy. And so I would guess that this is probably also consistent with other things that you felt? Because I, I don't really consider myself a great gift buyer. I don't really want gifts from anybody in my life, but like, I do consider myself a good friend, partner, parent, and I've considered people around me good to me without giving me any good gifts. Because I, when you ask me that question, I go back to my childhood and think about like the Sega Genesis, which like had no, had no meaning to me, had no like value.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  It's just like, I, the happiest I remember being, opening a present was like a Sega Genesis that I really wanted. Most of the other times, I don't know, at a certain age, I don't really care about gifts. And it's really hard to find a gift that'll grab your attention, right?

• 46:17Pablo Torre?

  So I, I agree that, and I, I was gonna pivot to sort of how gift giving in adulthood as a parent has been so much not about me anymore, to the point where like, I can't remember. But I wanna go to the Sega Genesis thing for a second because that feeling of like unboxing a gift is both something that I, on some level, am chasing, even if I don't totally know it. And I know that others are because the most popular, of course, genre, one of the most popular genres on YouTube, of course, is unboxing videos in which you're watching other people unveil their gift. And so there is just something about that feeling of being a kid, getting a present, and the promise of, this is exactly, it's the promise of your emotional needs will be satisfied by this material possession.

• 47:04Pablo Torre?

  And over time, that has been worn down to such a raggedy nub. But at the time, as a fellow Sega Genesis have-er, I remember that exact Christmas of being like, "Oh, my God, this, this [bleep] hedgehog is going to make me happy." And it did for a while. And now, as, as an adult, I, I'm like you, Dominique. I am not a good gift giver. I am a, I'm a self-gifter, where I'm just like, okay, I, I feel like-

• 47:29Speaker 04

  If you want it, you buy it.

• 47:30Pablo Torre?

  Yes. So the worst gift I've given is the gift I gave to myself, which is I am one of the idiots who bought the, uh, Apple Vision Pro.

• 47:40Pablo Torre?

  I'm, oh, there it is. Me and David Samson, both raising our hands. We bought the VR headset.

• 47:46Speaker 04

  I re-gifted it to my son for his 21st.

• 47:49Pablo Torre?

  Amazing. What, how many, first off, we should talk about re-gifting. But what, how many times did you use it, David, before you decided to re-gift it?

• 47:58Speaker 04

  It was unopened.

• 47:59Pablo Torre?

  Oh, my God.

• 48:01Speaker 02

  Do you give good gifts, or have you, over the course of your children's lives, given them good gifts?

• 48:06Speaker 04

  No.

• 48:07Speaker 02

  It's funny, because you recognize how much it hurts you, and you're just like, "Yeah, do it to them, too."

• 48:12Speaker 04

  It's, listen, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

• 48:15Speaker 02

  But it's clear, the goose, the goose is clearly not happy with-

• 48:18Pablo Torre?

  It was bad for the goose. It was traumatic for the goose.

• 48:21Speaker 04

  It's goose [bleep], but it's a goose nonetheless.

• 48:25Pablo Torre?

  I don't think we necessarily agree on the meaning of this idiom.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think we do at all. Yeah, my, my kids always ask me what I want, and I always tell them, "Give me a hug." Um, this year, my oldest daughter kept asking me, so I said, um, "I would like you to put your clothes away, um, every day from now, from now until Christmas, without me asking you." And she rolled her eyes at me. So I was like, "I don't, I don't know, I don't..." Like, "Write, write me a, a card. I don't, I don't know."

• 48:56Pablo Torre?

  Did you, did you guys ever do the thing where you gave, I used to, I remember giving my mom this?

• 48:59Speaker 02

  Coupons.

• 49:00Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I knew you were gonna do that. Yeah, coupons.

• 49:02Pablo Torre?

  You write a custom coupon book, and it's like, "I will clean my room. I will, whatever, not play Sega Genesis." Um, and you would tear them off and hand it to your mom? That, ever thing, David, you're familiar with the coupon as a, as a creative project?

• 49:16Speaker 04

  One, one time I got a coupon saying that I would get a bike, and it was just a picture of a bike, and I never got the bike. I ended up with just the picture. So I do not, I do not traffic in coupon gifts.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  Tell me something, tell me something happy, David. Something happy about your childhood. No, I mean, I just want to hear something happy about your childhood. Or, or something that, some experience with your children that you had that was like incredibly meaningful.

• 49:45Speaker 04

  I have one. When I was thirteen, I had a bar mitzvah and the hottest girl in the grade came to my bar mitzvah. And she came in a purple skirt. And I remember the outfit and I was in love with her so much and I didn't think I had a chance that she would come to little old me, my lunchtime bar mitzvah. And she came to that and it was the greatest gift I've ever gotten in my life.

• 50:14Pablo Torre?

  What happened at the?

• 50:15Speaker 02

  Congratulations. I think that's it. I think that's it. I think she just came.

• 50:18Speaker 04

  What do you mean? That was the gift?

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think that he got a kiss or anything.

• 50:22Speaker 04

  A kiss? Don't be ridiculous. I barely got a glance or a gander, but it was good enough for me. We were in the same space.

• 50:31Speaker 02

  Good for you, Goose.

• 50:33Pablo Torre?

  I was gonna say, it's rare that the control room weighs in through my ear and just says, uh, David is bumming everybody.

• 50:40Speaker 04

  Oh, I don't mean to. I'm the luckiest guy in the world. You guys are not playing it right. I'm just giving you stories. You guys, I'm so sorry. I'm very fortunate. Literally, I'm the luckiest person I know, so don't feel badly for me. I'm more than fine. More than fine.

• 51:11Pablo Torre?

  What did we find out today, guys, on this episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out? An episode in which we found out, I think, a lot of stuff, personally.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:19Pablo Torre?

  But, uh, but, uh... Dominique, do you want to lead us off with the revelation that you have developed here today?

• 51:25Speaker 02

  I found out that the depths of Pablo's content brain know no floor.

• 51:32Pablo Torre?

  Hmm. Take that as a compliment.

• 51:36Speaker 04

  I found out that the depth of Dominique's competitive nature knows no bounds.

• 51:44Pablo Torre?

  I found out that both of you guys are bad at finding [BLEEP] out because all of those things should have been obvious from episode one that we ever did together.

• 51:54Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 51:56Speaker 04

  That's a good one.

• 51:57Pablo Torre?

  I invoke superstar privilege. The show is over. Get the [BLEEP] out of here.

• 52:01Speaker 04

  Thank God. See you later, guys. Thank you.

• 52:04Pablo Torre?

  Love you, guys.

• 52:13Pablo Torre?

  This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark Media production. And I'll talk to you next time.

• 52:40Speaker 06

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