Pod Insights Pablo Torre Finds Out The Pick Who Became Tom Brady: An NFL Secret, Finally Revealed About this episode You may think you know how the Patriots drafted the greatest quarterback of all time: with the 199th pick in the sixth round of the 2000 NFL Draft. But the real story — the story of exactly how the Patriots got to make that pick, in the first place — has never been made public… until now. Today, Pablo dives into the secret world of the NFL’s compensatory formula. And we unmask the identity of the free agent who flapped his wings, changing sports history forever.
This episode originally aired September 12, 2024.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 Onnit's Black Friday sale doesn't start until later this month, but listeners get in early. If you're new to Onnit, go to Onnit.com and use code PABLO for 30% off your first order starting today. If you've never tried Onnit, start with AlphaBrain. It's their daily nootropic built to support focus, memory, and mental clarity on days when you need to be locked in, whether that's powering through a tough workout or staying focused during back-to-back meetings. Get early access and save 30% off your first order at Onnit.com. That's O-N-N-I-T dot com. And use code PABLO. Some exclusions apply.
0:45 Pablo Torre? This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out is brought to you by McDonald's. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Medium Fries and a Drink is now $8. And look, I've chased down a lot of strange stories, but nothing quite like what's inside a Quarter Pounder with Cheese. It is 100% fresh beef cooked right when you order it, with no artificial flavors, colors, fillers, or preservatives in the beef. The onions are hand-topped by someone who knows the perfect amount by memory. Two slices of cheese and a star, and two pickles side by side. So every bite gets both. And every time one's ordered, a cowbell sound rings in the kitchen. That's the grill master's cue to put a fresh patty on the grill. My move?
1:28 Pablo Torre? QPC, fries and a drink after a long day of recording. That is my happy place. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Fries and a Drink, now $8 for a limited time only, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska, and California. And for delivery, fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii. Offer not valid for delivery. This episode is brought to you by Apollo.io. A lot of the stories on this show start the same way. Something that looks pretty simple turns out to be a mess, once you look under the hood. Well, it's no different in the sales world. Your team has a tool for finding prospects, a different tool for reaching out to them, and a third for keeping track of it all.
2:13 Pablo Torre? On paper, that's a system. In practice, it's a salesperson spending the better part of the day copying names from one tab into another, and not much of it actually selling. Apollo.io is a platform that helps sales teams find the right buyers and reach out to them. It brings prospecting, outreach and follow-up into one place instead of several separate tools. It's used by sales teams of all sizes, from small businesses to larger organizations, and it's built for teams who want less manual busywork and more time with buyers. If your marketing and sales teams are trying to work from the same view of the customer, it's worth a look. Sign up for free at Apollo.io. That's Apollo.io. Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out.
2:58 Pablo Torre? I am Pablo Torre and today we're going to find out what this sound is.
3:02 Speaker 02 I think this is a sophisticated task. There will be no one who will divulge the information for you and you'll wander the earth forever trying to figure this out.
3:10 Pablo Torre? Right after this ad.
3:13 Speaker 03 You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network.
3:29 Pablo Torre? There are some origin stories that are so familiar by now to us that they just kind of hang in our brains like these old paintings, these artifacts almost that we see all of the time in documentaries and speeches and books and broadcasts that we don't even really stop to look at them anymore. And so today's episode is going to be about the most famous origin story and the most famous draft pick in the history of the biggest sport in America. Because it turns out that something important, someone important, has been missing from this picture for 25 years.
4:10 Speaker 04 The skinny beanpole of a young man walked over to me and said, hi, Mr. Kraft, I want to introduce myself. I'm Tom Brady. I said, I know who you are. You're our sixth round draft choice. And I always remember he looked me like a laser eye to eye and he said, that's right. And I'm the best decision this organization has ever made.
4:35 Speaker 05 I am the best decision this organization has ever made.
4:42 Speaker 05 I mean, are you joking me? You were the 199th pick in the draft?
4:49 Speaker 06 The sixth round, 199. And I always joke, when they called me, they said, Tom, you know, hey, Thomas, you know, Bill Belichick, you know, picking a sixth round, like, we'll see you Monday, like, get [bleep] ready to go.
5:03 Pablo Torre? And to be clear, taking Tom Brady with pick number 199 of the 2000 NFL Draft, that turned out to be more than simply the best decision the New England Patriots ever made. It was the biggest decision, the biggest domino, that I believe changed the NFL's timeline entirely. If Bill Belichick did not use that pick on Brady, perhaps because Brady's shirtless photos at the Combine were just that indicting, for instance, just imagine the amount of money that entire generations of Jet fans might have saved on therapy.
5:39 Speaker 07 Playing golf, put your last place, what else you gotta do, you know? You gotta make yourself spill down.
5:47 Speaker 07 It's a perfectly good, they're burning Brady.
5:52 Pablo Torre? Not to mention the cost of Tom Brady effigies, like this one, which they hanged and burned in this parking lot before a game in 2014. Because of course they did. All of which is why the Pro Football Hall of Fame has already acquired the sixth-round draft card, where the Patriots registered the decision to take the greatest quarterback ever, enshrining this literal artifact before the man, before Touchdown Tom, himself. And it is also why we should recognize how the Patriots acquired pick number 199 in the first place. Because how this decision really came to be, it turns out, is an active mystery.
6:34 Pablo Torre? It is a mystery involving another decision and another player and a suspiciously secret rabbit hole of a system. A system that has denied and infuriated the smartest analysts and most plugged-in executives all around the NFL. In other words, for 25 years, nobody has known how the Patriots actually ended up with Tom Brady. And as my friend Bill Barnwell, the brilliant ESPN analyst, once wrote, quote, "We'll never know."
7:09 Pablo Torre? Until now.
7:27 Pablo Torre? This message is brought to you by Apple Card. With Apple Card, you earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases like groceries, or merch, or tickets to the game. Plus, it can be used anywhere MasterCard is accepted. No matter your team, no matter where you shop, Apple Card is here to help you tackle game day. Apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank, USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. Gifts mean more when they have the power to give more. They can inspire more discovery, give more confidence, and unwrap more of who you are. This Black Friday, give a gift that goes beyond the box. The Dell XPS 13 Laptop.
8:12 Pablo Torre? With a beautiful design and cutting-edge performance, it helps you unlock more possibilities. It's the thinnest, lightest XPS laptop yet, with touchscreen, a backlit keyboard, and long-lasting battery life to power you through your day. Built with a durable aluminum chassis, weighing just 2.2 pounds, and Intel Core processors, it's fast, reliable, and portable enough to keep up wherever you go. Visit dell.com to explore the possibilities with XPS. While shopping, you'll also find great perks like Dell Rewards, fast free shipping, premium support, and financing with flexible payment options. Plus, you can find great deals on monitors and accessories. That means you can score a whole new setup now for less. This Black Friday sale is one you don't want to miss.
8:57 Pablo Torre? Head to dell.com/deals. That's dell.com/deals.
9:06 Pablo Torre? I'm pretty sure this won't shock anyone out there, but buying a car is just a hard process. You have to figure out what you want from thousands of options, then you have to find somewhere that's offering a good deal, then you get hit with unexpected fees. But let's just break it down and think about how you describe your ideal car to a friend. You know, something like good gas mileage, four-wheel drive, reliable, under 30 grand. Luckily, CarGurus makes it that easy. Just describe it to CarGurus the same way. With Guru, you search in your own words and you get listings, real listings, that match. No endless filters, just the car that fits your life. CarGurus also helps you shop with more transparent pricing, allowing you to see when dealer fees are included
9:50 Pablo Torre? so you can compare listings with greater confidence. And with more than 4 million listings, CarGurus has the biggest selection of cars. So it's easier than ever to find the right car and the right deal. It is no wonder CarGurus is the number one most-visited car shopping site according to SimilarWeb's estimated traffic data. So buy or sell your next car today with CarGurus at cargurus.com. Go to cargurus.com to make sure your big deal is the best deal. That's C-A-R-G-U-R-U-S dot com. Cargurus.com.
10:28 Speaker 07 With the Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to discover. Terms apply. See discover.com/five for details.
10:59 Pablo Torre? All right, so the entrance to this rabbit hole that we're all about to tumble into together, a rabbit hole which has made me feel kinda like Maury Povich of sorts for NFL draft picks, which I will explain later. It happens to be this artifact that I've already mentioned to you: Tom Brady's physical draft card. Because if you look at this thing, one more time, down at the second line, right below "Round Number Six, New England", and right above "Brady, Tom", yep, right there, you're gonna notice two words that almost always get overlooked when we talk about Tom Brady. Despite being in all caps, clearly, and despite being written in red ink. And those two words are "compensatory selection".
11:44 Pablo Torre? A compensatory selection, in so many words, is a pick with a very personal and human backstory. Because the way the NFL draft normally works, as you may know, is that there are seven rounds, 32 picks each, one for each of the 32 teams in the league. The worst team, of course, picking first, because drafts are socialist, quietly. And the best team picks last. All of that, pretty straightforward. You know this stuff. But the first thing to know about a compensatory selection is that they are not one of those normal picks. A compensatory pick is assigned to a team by the league office after a series of confidential and year-long calculations, it turns out.
12:27 Pablo Torre? Calculations, incidentally, that are so sensitive that one high-ranking team executive would only talk to me on tape if I vowed to guarantee his anonymity. Which is why I did agree to deepen our Deep Throat's voice and also allow him to pick his own alias.
12:49 Speaker 02 Chad? Chad's a good, funny, random name.
12:52 Pablo Torre? Chad. All right, Chad. I want to explain why "Compensatory Chad" is here.
12:57 Speaker 02 I feel a little nervous, quite honestly.
13:00 Pablo Torre? I've interviewed whistleblowers, people who actually are part of, like, international investigations into oligarchs. They didn't get the protection that we are offering you today.
13:11 Speaker 02 Pablo, I'm not sure anyone that's been on your show has been forced with the potential repercussions of a league or entity as powerful as the National Football League.
13:22 Pablo Torre? I wanted to be offended at this. But insofar as the NFL's 32 teams did combine for more than $20 billion in revenue last year, as I found out, Chad is not wrong. No American sport has ever been better than the NFL at making money or exerting control. For instance, it took players suing the NFL to introduce the concept of free agency in the first place. The concept that we all know now where players with expiring contracts could freely sign with other teams. That happened in 1993, not that long ago.
14:01 Pablo Torre? And by 1994, in response to that, the NFL had installed two other concepts: a salary cap, which limited spending, and the invention of the compensatory pick, where a team that lost a player in free agency and did not sign a replacement in free agency is eligible for a kind of, we'll call it, owner's compensation, essentially, kind of the opposite of workman's comp, which happens to be one of 32 newly invented draft picks, bonus draft picks, which can slot in as high as the end of the third round or as late as the end of the seventh. But the reason why, why you'd get one or the other, it's shrouded in mystery.
14:46 Speaker 02 The rabbit hole here, if you will, and the reason that we are talking is because this is a system for which there are some established and well-known rules, but there are just as many rules that are spoken in whispers, not necessarily documented anywhere. And we also have an end result that is never published in terms of how picks have been handed out.
15:13 Pablo Torre? Which is crazy to me, because the NFL, as an industry, is so hyper-analyzed.
15:21 Speaker 02 This is most similar to Christmas morning. We come downstairs, we have no idea where our gifts are gonna be. We ask for certain things, we think that they might be in that box. But until we open them, until the league sends out a certain memo with all the picks, most teams are referencing Twitter to figure out what picks they think they're gonna be getting.
15:44 Pablo Torre? Billion-dollar corporations which hire the smartest minds available, in sports, data-driven people, are reading Twitter to figure out whether they're making the right call on a strategic decision involving compensatory draft picks.
15:58 Speaker 02 There are probably no teams that have clarity or certainty about who's gonna receive a pick and where the picks are going to be until the picks are announced. There are a few teams who make a very concerted effort to calculate this and have models, and other teams call them to ask them what they think their model is going to say. There's no question in my mind that most teams are guessing, looking at Twitter, or asking their friends around the league what they think about how the picks are gonna come out.
16:31 Pablo Torre? And after mining the mind of Chad for months now, I can relate to quote-unquote "most teams." But what I am really trying to do here, in my aforementioned capacity as compensatory Maury, is more than simply guess. What I'm trying to do is reverse-engineer the compensatory paternity, let's say, of pick number 199. What I'm trying to do here is identify the former Patriots player who signed with another team as a free agent before that 1999 season and then turned into Tom Brady during the 2000 NFL Draft.
17:11 Speaker 02 I think this is a sophisticated task. There will be no one who would divulge the information for you, and you'll wander the earth forever trying to figure this out.
17:19 Pablo Torre? That is an answer that Palatore finds out never takes. Sitting down.
17:25 Speaker 02 Palatore will not find out.
17:27 Pablo Torre? Chad, A, [BLEEP] you, B...
17:31 Pablo Torre? B, you're gonna help me here. And C, I also should not forget C, we did have a head start. Before the last break, you heard me quote the pessimism of our friend Bill Barnwell, who I consider the sharpest NFL analyst in our industry. And that quote about how this is never gonna get solved was not encouraging. But the reason I was able to quote that is because Barnwell himself actually peered into this rabbit hole in a Grantland article back in 2015. And what you should know about what Bill Barnwell has previously found out is that we can narrow this mystery down a bit.
18:10 Pablo Torre? We can narrow it down to three potential fathers who are now standing atop our compensatory Maury stage. And it's all next, right here, on The Maury Show.
18:37 Pablo Torre? These are three plausible candidates, three free agents, who left the Patriots before that 1999 season. And they are.
18:48 Pablo Torre? The central casting linebacker, Todd Collins, a guy who left the Patriots to sign with the St. Louis Rams. Frank Malakot spent part of last week with linebacker Todd Collins. Beneath this Southern Comfort exterior, there's an animal waiting to be unleashed.
19:03 Pablo Torre? I guess that linebacker, you gotta love to hit people. I mean, it's kinda sounds sick or whatever, but that's what we get paid to do is, you know, to hit people.
19:13 Pablo Torre? The veteran punter, Tom Tupa, who joined the Jets of all teams and actually played quarterback in Week 1 of the '99 season, even though he did not have the right footwear, you know, as a punter, because starter Vinny Testaverde got hurt. That's Tom Tupa shoes you're looking at. Those are punter shoes. Look at that, see?
19:33 Pablo Torre? Left foot, that looks like a slipper, the right foot, one you kicked with.
19:39 Pablo Torre? And finally, we have defensive tackle Mark Wheeler. The 285-pound giant who left the Patriots for the Eagles, but is otherwise so generally obscure, frankly, that the only YouTube video I could find about the guy had 44 views. And also was generated by a bot. Wheeler was drafted by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 1992 in the third round. Has the 59th overall pick. Over eight seasons, Wheeler played for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, the New England Patriots, and the Philadelphia Eagles. Now, there is no large manila envelope and no DNA test, unfortunately, which can reveal which of these three men is responsible for pick number 199.
20:22 Pablo Torre? In the case of four-month-old Isabella, Stephen, you are the father.
20:32 Pablo Torre? But what we do know is that pick number 199 was the highest pick, the most valuable pick of the multiple sixth and seventh-round compensatory picks that the Patriots received that year. Which is crucial for our investigation. Because the NFL office, the way they actually assign these picks, these cost-controlled Christmas gifts behind closed doors, it's mind-blowing in a different way.
20:59 Pablo Torre? Because what the NFL office does, it turns out, is quietly keeping and updating an enormous master list of every player in the league. We're talking offense, we're talking defense, we're talking special teams, all the positions, all of whom get combined into this one master list. And they rank all of these players from most valuable to least valuable, in order. The rub, as you might imagine, is that this list is completely confidential. Like, it's the fantasy football big board of God himself.
21:34 Speaker 02 The picks are roughly determined by stacking every player in the National Football League from most highly paid to least. And there's a point system that correlates to those tiers. And then players can accumulate extra points for how much they play, different types of honors they receive at the end of the season.
21:55 Pablo Torre? So for instance, there is a bonus for being honored as first team all pro, according to the Associated Press. We also know, for instance, that the more snaps you play above a certain threshold statistically, the more points you will receive. But as arcane as all of this is, as this compensatory formula actually is, and a bunch of it is also now explained in page 399 of the most recent collective bargaining agreement, the logic here is actually pretty straightforward. Because the more valuable a free agent like Todd Collins, let's say, winds up being in his first season away from the Patriots with his new employer, the more valuable the pick the Patriots should get to compensate for his loss.
22:38 Pablo Torre? This is, again, so long as the Patriots did not sign a free agent replacement for Todd Collins on their own, which would just disqualify them logically from receiving this kind of owner's compensation for losing him to that other team.
22:53 Speaker 02 If teams have lost more than they've gained, the players that are in a tier that hasn't been crossed off by a player they gained would equal a pick.
23:03 Pablo Torre? And this is where Barnwell offered us one more observation that proved helpful. Because it booted one of our three potential fathers off of the compensatory Maury stage. Because no, the Patriots did not replace Todd Collins or Mark Wheeler by signing a similarly tiered free agent replacement. But they did sign a similarly tiered free agent replacement for Tom Tupa. Quote, "The Patriots lost punter Tom Tupa, but they signed fellow punter Lee Johnson to replace him." End quote. The former Bengals punter Lee Johnson, whose locker in New England, you should know,
23:42 Pablo Torre? would eventually be right next to a 6'4", 225-pound rookie quarterback from Michigan named Tom Brady. But I thought, oh, man, this kid, this guy's gonna be... A flop. Didn't think anything of him. Which is a truly tremendous confession by former Bengals punter Lee Johnson. Thank you, Lee Johnson, for admitting that. But with Tom Tupa crossed off our list now, thanks to this punter responsible for that scouting report, our mystery compensatory free agent is now a coin flip. It's Todd Collins, or it's Mark Wheeler. And neither of these guys started a single game in that 99 season. Neither of these guys was playing on a particularly notable contract.
24:26 Pablo Torre? Wheeler had actually retired by the time that Brady met Lee Johnson at Patriots camp. Collins was retired by the season after that. And so only the NFL's actual comp list from that 1999 season could conclusively determine the information that we need, which is the former Patriot that is more valuable than the other one. And so as a journalist, I had one more question about all of this.
24:56 Pablo Torre? Who gets to see this list?
24:58 Speaker 02 It's a great question. 345 Park Avenue.
25:01 Pablo Torre? NFL headquarters.
25:04 Speaker 02 That's it.
25:05 Pablo Torre? Have you ever seen this list?
25:07 Speaker 02 Never.
25:08 Pablo Torre? Do you know anybody that has seen this list?
25:11 Speaker 02 I know that there's one person in the league office who is solely responsible for calculating said list. Who sees it? No idea.
25:22 Pablo Torre? But just to be clear, there is a secret list that the NFL keeps of the most valuable players in the league ordered from top to bottom. And this feels like the thing that any football fan would want access to. And this is a secret that they will never reveal. Why?
25:40 Speaker 02 That's a great question. Not exactly sure why it's kept a secret as far as how the final results are tabulated, but they're never shown.
25:51 Speaker 02 And this year was, as an example, there was a mistake on the initial list of the way picks were assigned. There were multiple teams who did press conferences explaining they disagreed with the way the list was calculated. We got a raw deal. We had separate Zooms with the league.
26:12 Speaker 06 Trying to go through how it was calculated because by even their accounts, as we were checking with them through the year, we clearly had a third-rounder and so.
26:20 Speaker 02 No recourse.
26:22 Pablo Torre? So I'm not here to relitigate the complaints of Bill's general manager, Brandon Bean, who is the guy whose voice you just heard there. And I'm not here to relitigate the complaints of the Cincinnati Bengals, who woke up on compensatory Christmas morning in March of this year, as Chad was alluding to, only to find that Santa had given them a sixth-round pick when they really deserved a third. This was a database error, as it was termed, that actually got caught by an eagle-eyed analyst on, yes, Twitter, named Nick Court. What I'm here to do is merely point out that this [bleep] is frustrating. It is frustrating for the data-driven teams, doing whatever they can to get this young, cost-controlled
27:04 Pablo Torre? labor, and it's frustrating also for a league office that is trying to keep all of those teams in check.
27:11 Speaker 02 There are many situations that come up where we don't know the rules ahead of time.
27:16 Pablo Torre? Yeah, knowing the rules ahead of time is one way to become better at playing a game, unless, of course, the whole point is to deter you from treating this as a game to be played, I would suppose.
27:29 Speaker 02 Don't disagree.
27:30 Pablo Torre? And so what I needed to know a lot more about was the one person in the league office that Chad had referenced before, the one person in the league office who is, quote, "solely responsible for making the list in question and checking it twice."
27:49 Speaker 02 There was one Santa Claus in the league who oversaw tech and various components and also oversaw the compensatory pick calculation.
28:01 Pablo Torre? And what was his name?
28:03 Speaker 02 Steve Vail, but Steve is retired. And now we don't know who's standing across us.
28:10 Pablo Torre? Steve Vail, according to his LinkedIn profile on my computer right now, had served as the NFL's Vice President of Labor Information since 1994, a meaningful year, you may recall. Because it means that Steve entered the league alongside the invention of the compensatory selection itself. And so what I did last month in the throes of reporting this rabbit hole of a story is write a letter to Santa. I kindly informed Santa that I had become trapped inside the mystery of Tom Brady's true origin story. And I informed Santa furthermore that only he could cash a check that my investigative ego had written.
28:53 Speaker 02 Help, Tori will not find out. I'm saying that.
28:57 Pablo Torre? Chad, eh, [bleep] you. Santa did not reply to me. And I'm also just not gonna lie to you here at this point. Things were looking bleak. At a certain point, I kind of felt like I was hallucinating. Frankly, Tom Brady's voice began haunting me.
29:18 Speaker 06 You know, pick you in the sixth round, like, we'll see you Monday, like, get [bleep] ready to go.
29:22 Pablo Torre? Then Chad's voice also started haunting me.
29:26 Speaker 02 I feel your pain. I've had this pain for a large part of my life trying to deal with this.
29:33 Pablo Torre? And all I could really do as a struggling journalist at this point was dig deeper, I guess. And as my algorithm was getting entirely messed up, pretty much unusable for anything other than looking at this story, I stumbled upon a clue.
29:49 Speaker 04 I've been on an 84 championship. I've been on a Super Bowl team. I've been on multiple NFC or AFC championship teams. And they're all similar.
30:01 Pablo Torre? You may not recognize this voice as the now jarringly mellifluous voice of none other than Lee Johnson. The guy who thought Tom Brady was gonna suck ass. Lee Johnson is the free agent the Patriots signed to replace Tom Tupa in 1999, punting Tom Tupa, again, out of this investigation.
30:23 Speaker 04 And I've also been on some of the worst teams in the NFL.
30:26 Speaker 07 The eighties of the Bengals were awful. You had some famous quotes back then. I did. So famous.
30:34 Pablo Torre? You can go read them yourself.
30:37 Pablo Torre? "You can go read them yourself," is what Lee Johnson was saying at the end there, followed by all of that knowing laughter from the guy he was talking to. What it suggested was that I should also know what those famous quotes about the Cincinnati Bengals were. I should also go and read them. So I did go read them, and I'm so glad I did, because what Lee Johnson said changed everything.
31:12 Pablo Torre? Did you know over 75% of Americans are chronically dehydrated? And 90% don't get enough potassium, which is a key electrolyte responsible for energy, muscle function, and clear thinking? Well, that's why you can be drinking water all day and still feel tired or foggy or just off. And while most hydration packs really load up on the sugar, Instant Hydration contains zero sugar. There's no glucose spike and no sugar crash. And that is really important to me, because it not only gives me electrolytes without loading me up with sugar, but it also helps me avoid that late afternoon crash. You know, that time of day when your eyes start drooping as you reply to yet another email, and you need something to get you back on track. Just mix a packet of Instant Hydration with water,
31:55 Pablo Torre? and I am feeling ready to push through to the end of the day. For a better way to stay hydrated, go to instanthydration.com/ptfo and use my promo code PTFO for over 40% off your first subscription order. It's Instant Hydration's best offer available. That's instanthydration.com/ptfo, promo code PTFO.
32:18 Pablo Torre? Life in 2026 is tough. We all have our struggles and we could all use some help. But trying to figure out how to get the right mental health treatment for you can feel overwhelming. Talkiiatry helps you move from "I know I need help" to actually having a psychiatrist who listens and a clear personalized treatment plan. Talkiiatry is 100% online psychiatry practice that provides comprehensive evaluations, diagnoses, and ongoing medication management for conditions like ADHD, anxiety, depression, and more. With Talkiiatry, you can meet with a licensed psychiatrist, who takes the time to understand what's going on, builds a personalized treatment plan, and supports you over time with consistent, evidence-based care.
33:02 Pablo Torre? And all 800-plus clinicians are in-network with major insurers, so you can use your existing insurance instead of paying monthly subscriptions or out-of-network costs. Head to talkiatry.com/ptfo to complete the short assessment and get matched with an in-network psychiatrist in just a few minutes. That's T-A-L-K-I-A-T-R-Y.com/ptfo to get matched in minutes. Talkiiatry.com/ptfo. Cozy makes furniture for the part of life that nobody warns you about. Getting the couch into the room, making the room feel like you, then actually living on it spills it all. With Cozy, your home can grow with you by adapting to new spaces, new styles, and every era of your life.
33:45 Pablo Torre? It's modular furniture, so you can actively adjust your furniture to fit any space. It's all built around making the entire home comfortable and easy, so that your stuff works with your life, not around it. The covers are washable and interchangeable, so a refresh is only one wash away, and the spill goes from panic to shrug. And it all ships to your door in easy-to-move boxes. Plus, Cozy's free one-on-one design consultations make the whole home vision a lot less intimidating. Cozy has everything you need to make your home feel like it has a plan, because Cozy makes every part of the process easy. So, visit Cozy today. That's C-O-Z-E-Y.com and make yourself at home.
34:32 Pablo Torre? So this is the part of the story where I take you back to December 6th, 1998. An unseasonably warm day, it turned out, in the state of Ohio. And after the absolutely miserable Cincinnati Bengals lost to the visiting Buffalo Bills in front of 55,000 fans, a reporter asked the starting punter, Lee Johnson, a question. A question that you might ask if you are also miserable, because maybe you've been covering a team that had just lost eight straight games.
35:06 Pablo Torre? "If you were a fan," the reporter asked, "would you have come here today?" "No," Lee Johnson replied, according to multiple press accounts. "No way." "Why would you? You're saying losing is okay." "I'd sell my tickets." Lee Johnson, the very next morning, lost his job as the punter of the Cincinnati Bengals. And I don't mean to say that he was benched. I mean to say that Lee Johnson was cut. The dude's contract was terminated. And he said later, quote, "I'm sure I was released because of what I said. I meant what I said," end quote.
35:52 Pablo Torre? Now, all of this is a remarkable decision, obviously, in its own right. And it sent me back down into our rabbit hole with a question. A sudden clarification, actually, for compensatory chat. If you are cut from a team, do you count towards the compensatory formula?
36:15 Speaker 02 Your contract needs to expire on its own. So if your contract is terminated, you're not considered a compensatory free agent. You wouldn't count towards the formula.
36:26 Pablo Torre? Which is to say that Lee Johnson could not have canceled out Tom Tupa.
36:31 Speaker 02 That's sensible. That makes entirely too much sense.
36:36 Pablo Torre? Here's some information that I did not know about Tom Tupa until I started going deep into the world of Tom Tupa. Because what Tom Tupa signed, Chad, was a $6.1 million deal over four years, which was the most ever for a punter at the time. And when you look at his statistics, in 1999, the season he went to the Jets, he was a first-team All-Pro. He was excellent. He played all the time, punted all the time, made a lot of money, the most ever for a punter. And so it stands to reason that of Mark Wheeler and Todd Collins and Tom Tupa, that Tom Tupa, then, by the power of inference and logic and the power vested in me, Tom Tupa would
37:17 Pablo Torre? have been Tom Brady's number 199 overall draft pick. Am I wrong?
37:25 Speaker 02 If we think he was the highest paid, plus we know he had an honor, a playtime, we know these other guys didn't play extensively, it doesn't seem like you're wrong.
37:35 Pablo Torre? So just to be very clear here, it sounds like you agree with me that it has to be Tom Tupa.
37:41 Speaker 02 I do.
37:43 Pablo Torre? Okay. So, this is big, right? This is where I need a recap for you, what we just discovered. Because Lee Johnson got fired. Fired for saying this sort of unrepentant stuff that Lee Johnson apparently can never stop himself from saying, which meant that he could not finish his contract with the Bengals. Which means, in turn, that he did not cancel out Tom Tupa in the compensatory formula by rule. Which then means that Tom Tupa and his giant contract and his All-Pro season in 1999, it all makes him the most valuable player, logically, on our compensatory Maury stage.
38:29 Pablo Torre? Tom Tupa is the guy responsible for Tom Brady, is what we just found out.
38:38 Pablo Torre? But now, dear listener, it is time for this story to get even more eerie. Because you may recall that Tom Brady was the 6'4", 225-pound quarterback who went to Michigan, the guy who eventually earned the nickname "Touchdown Tom", what you should know now is that Tom Tupa was a 6'4", 225-pound quarterback, who went to Ohio State, Michigan's rival, and himself, eventually earned the nickname "Two Point Tupa".
39:11 Pablo Torre? 30 years ago, Tom Tupa was living the trajectory that Lee Johnson headed vision for Tom Brady. Basically, he had sucked so much that he had disappeared from the NFL altogether. But in 1994, and yes, there's that year again, it's the dawn of not only the compick system, but also the two-point conversion. The head coach of Tupa's hometown Cleveland Browns, a man named Bill Belichick, gave Tom Tupa a chance to make his team as a punter.
39:45 Pablo Torre? And so in Week 1, against Tupa's counterpart, who happened to be Lee Johnson and those miserable Cincinnati Bengals, Bill Belichick sent Tom Tupa into the game as the holder on a point-after attempt. And history was made.
40:04 Pablo Torre? Extra point time. Go for the extra point, right? Bill, I think Bill's got something up his sleeve. It's the former Buckeye QB, Tom Tupa. 11-0 Browns. That is the first two-point conversion in NFL history.
40:18 Pablo Torre? Belichick would trust Tom Tupa to run that same exact fake, in which he took the snap and ran right up the gut for two points three times that season. And a lasting personal bond between coach and punter was born. In fact, when the Cleveland Browns fired Belichick in 1996 and the Patriots picked him up as an assistant coach, Tom Tupa made sure to follow Belichick to New England.
40:44 Speaker 04 Welcome back to Foxborough, 14-0 as we open the second quarter. Tupa at his goal line in punt formation. The big question is, Paul, is it another fake? Yeah. Okay, let me, let me, yeah, no, he will not fake this, I promise.
40:57 Pablo Torre? See that? I'm telling you. See, Phil, that's why we got him. That's how I tell you. Two-point Tupa was the real thing. Let it be known. He was the starting punter of the New England Patriots, and he was no longer the guy who ran all of these fakes. Three years later, before that fateful 1999 season, the dude became the single highest-paid punter in NFL history, as I was just marveling to Chad, once he left the Patriots. And the thing I just need to reiterate for you here is that the team that paid Tom Tupa this record-setting amount, an amount so big that it ostensibly handed the Patriots pick number 199, was the New York [bleep] Jets.
41:38 Pablo Torre? The New York Jets, at the time, a projected Super Bowl contender. Quote, "It was a no-brainer," Tom Tupa said, which was true because of all the money, yes, but also because of the specific coach that he was once again going to be joining with the Jets. I know our program's good. I'm confident in what we can do with the players and in terms of developing young players here and building a stronger program. And with the Jets' commitment to this program, I think we've got a great future. Tupa was reuniting with the guy who had resurrected and now funded his new NFL career,
42:20 Pablo Torre? Bill Belichick, for a third time. Belichick was another nomad, another guy who had gone to the Jets, and he was there to set up shop with his mentor, Bill Parcells, which now takes us back to the very first thing that I told you guys about Tom Tupa, which was about the shoes that he immediately had to fill at quarterback, remember, in Week 1 of that fateful 1999 season, a game which happened to be against, cosmically, the New England Patriots, exactly 25 years ago today. That's Tom Tupa's shoes you're looking at. Those are punter shoes. Look at that. See?
43:04 Speaker 07 Left foot, that looks like a slipper, the right foot's the one you kicked with.
43:08 Pablo Torre? The whole reason Tom Tupa was even out there was because in the second quarter, the Jets franchise quarterback, the actual guy they were hoping to see play, Vinny Testaverde, had torn his Achilles on a seemingly routine handoff.
43:23 Speaker 07 And holding his leg on the ground
43:31 Speaker 07 is Vinny Testaverde.
43:34 Speaker 07 Well, the way he's beating that turf, it's not good news for the New York Jets.
43:38 Pablo Torre? Yeah, it was completely catastrophic for the New York Jets, actually. Because what happened was that obscure NFL rules at the time made it so that using your emergency quarterback before the fourth quarter meant that you could no longer play either your first or second string quarterbacks. And this is meaningful because in yet another cosmically fateful roster decision by the New York Jets, Tom Tupa, their punter, was actually listed as their second string quarterback, which they did in order to open up an extra roster spot for special teams, which was clever, right? Unless Vinny Testaverde happened to suddenly get hurt mid-game.
44:18 Speaker 07 And now Tom Tupa is gonna be... I asked Bill Parcells, we did the Green Bay, New York Jets preseason game, and what did I say? I said, "Coach, what would happen if Vinny Testaverde went down?" And what was his answer? He goes, and I remember his face, he goes, "Oh." He couldn't, he didn't even answer the question. He didn't even want to deal with the fact, what it would be like without Testaverde as his quarterback.
44:43 Pablo Torre? But the real reason that all of this was so completely catastrophic for the New York Jets was not because Tom Tupa suddenly had to play quarterback again. Tom Tupa, actually, was killing it.
45:15 Pablo Torre? Two-point Tupa had turned into touchdown Tom.
45:23 Speaker 07 Good job by Tom Tupa faking the defense into a outside throw and lays it in for the touchdown. And the Jets will now go for two.
45:31 Pablo Torre? By the fourth quarter, Tom Tupa had thrown two touchdowns for 165 yards with no interceptions and had a passer rating of 143.7. The Jets were only trailing by five entering the fourth.
45:46 Pablo Torre? At which point, Jets head coach Bill Parcells made another big decision. Because in the fourth quarter, according to the aforementioned obscure rule, he could finally put in his real emergency quarterback. The guy he would have liked to see without any penalty, a guy by the name of Rick Myrer. And so the Jets put Rick Myrer into the game as soon as the fourth quarter started, as soon as possible. And Rick Myrer proceeded to throw the game away.
46:21 Speaker 07 That was Rick Myers first completion. He's going for a second one now. Ward down the side. He's intercepted.
46:29 Pablo Torre? Twice.
46:31 Speaker 07 Myers over the middle, popped up into the air and intercepted. Three and a half minutes to play and the Patriots with a shot.
46:39 Pablo Torre? Rick Myrer threw two picks. He threw two picks. He completed just four passes of 11 attempts. The guy [BLEEP] the bed is what he did. And the Jets lost by two points. It was a game that they should have won, and I can tell you this because I rewatched it in full, and I think that if Bill Parcells had kept two-point Tupa in the game, they would not have lost by two. I say this with full confidence. But I also wouldn't even be telling you about any of these things about Rick Myrer unless something else had happened further down this absurd chain of dominos several months
47:19 Pablo Torre? later now. Because the New York Jets, again, a would-be Super Bowl contender, finished eight and eight, and they missed the playoffs entirely.
47:32 Pablo Torre? By one game. One game. At which point, an exhausted Bill Parcells retired, vowing to never coach again. And he handed the reins to his heir, Bill Belichick. The dude who became the Jets head coach for exactly one day.
47:53 Speaker 07 I'll read you the statement that I gave to them. Due to the various uncertainties surrounding my position as it relates to the team's new ownership, I've decided to resign as the head coach of the New York Jets. I've given this decision very careful consideration. I would like to wish the entire New York Jets organization, the players, the coaching staff, and the new ownership the very best of luck for a prosperous future.
48:19 Pablo Torre? You may now be able to guess what happened just three weeks later.
48:23 Speaker 05 Hopefully, this press conference will go a little better than the last one I had.
48:29 Speaker 05 First of all, I want to thank everyone for coming out tonight. I know it's late and short notice. I know the last three weeks have probably been trying for all of you. But that's all behind me. I'm tremendously excited to be here, to be a part of the New England Patriots organization. This is a first-class operation. I've had an outstanding experience in 1996 when I was here with the Patriots and with Robert.
49:02 Pablo Torre? All of which finally brings us to April of 2000. This is just four months after that introductory presser in New England, when Bill Belichick, the new head coach and general manager of the Patriots, found himself holding a compensatory pick late in the sixth round. And with pick number 199 of the 2000 NFL Draft, the New England Patriots looked down at their draft card, at the space right beneath the words "Compensatory Selection," written in all caps in red ink, and they made the decision that changed everything.
49:42 Speaker 04 The skinny beanpole of a young man walked over to me and said, "Hi, Mr. Kraft. I want to introduce myself. I'm Tom Brady." I said, "I know who you are. You're our sixth-round draft choice." And I always remember, he looked me like a laser eye to eye, and he said, "That's right, and I'm the best decision this organization has ever made."
50:06 Pablo Torre? And I think you probably know the rest.
50:24 Pablo Torre? All right, so before we go near the end of the episode here, I do feel obligated to address what I believe is the first thing that fans of the New York Jets found out today, which is that you guys did it to yourselves, right? You did. You decided to give Bill Belichick's favorite free agent punter the most money that an NFL team had ever paid a punter. You then had him almost deliver a win in the first game he ever played for the Jets, but then you benched him in the fourth quarter, when you needed him the most, and you failed to make the playoffs that year. And all of that, all of that is what led to New England hiring Bill Belichick, who promptly used that pick that the Patriots got as compensation for losing that same free agent punter you
51:06 Pablo Torre? paid all that money to, to draft Tom [bleep] Brady. That's how it happened. And so, yeah, I apologize, on some level, for what your therapy bills may now become, but I'm also not done.
51:23 Pablo Torre? Because the second thing that I feel obligated to address here, as I now lobby to rename the butterfly effect after Tom Tupa, the Tupa effect, it's what I believe lots of you skeptics may still be thinking about me, which is that I didn't really finish the journey that Barnwell started, and that my whole grand conclusion here is still just a giant guess. And I get it. I do. I'm the guy who told you that only the NFL office has access to, you know, God's secret compensatory big board. I'm the one who made this whole thing about how, you know, someone from the inside can be the only person to know for sure
52:07 Pablo Torre? how the league ranks the value of Tom Tupa versus Todd Collins versus Mark Wheeler. I am that person.
52:14 Pablo Torre? But I do have one last update for you on that note. An update for you and for compensatory chat, actually. Because while Santa, former VP of Labor Information, Steve Vale, never did reply to my letter,
52:30 Pablo Torre? I did not stop writing letters. Because that's, that's just my brain. I wrote letters to various other people who might have seen the list,
52:42 Pablo Torre? and I also got nothing back. But one day, one day very recently, after hearing me explain in increasingly desperate tones what I'd been trying to investigate in my capacity as compensatory Maury Povich, someone inside the NFL office did something that shocked me.
53:04 Pablo Torre? They replied. They wrote back to Pablo Torre Finds Out, opening this Ark of the Covenant for the first time
53:16 Pablo Torre? in 25 years.
53:19 Pablo Torre? Quote, "Below are the 2,000 season compensatory picks awarded to the Patriots," the NFL office wrote in a detailed email, "along with the player lost in the 1999 season that resulted in such an award."
53:38 Pablo Torre? All of which means that I can now declare something officially. I can officially declare that in the case of pick number 199 in the 2000 NFL Draft, AKA Tom Brady, the greatest draft pick who has ever lived, the actual compensatory Maury has something to say.
54:04 Speaker 02 Tom Tupa, you are the father.
54:09 Pablo Torre? That is what I found out today. And so, in conclusion, [bleep] you, Chad.
54:27 Pablo Torre? I'm Pablo Torre, and this was, by the way, the real Maury Povich, not some AI bot. So, thank you to the real Maury for rejoining Pablo Torre Finds Out, which is produced, as always, by Metal Arc Media. We'll talk to you next time.
54:58 Speaker 06 With a Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5% cash back at different categories each quarter on up to $1,500 in purchases. That's 5% cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to discover. Terms apply. See discover.com/five for details.
55:21 Speaker 03 State Fair food is getting smaller and pricier. We'll have room for fried cookies. Okay, you never overspend on food. What's your deal? What's his deal? He went to Metro and got $450 in value on the new Samsung Galaxy 837 5G for free and no activation fees. Free phone? Oh, sign me up. Get that more for your money feeling only on Metro by T-Mobile. Bring your number and activate $40 period plan. $450 based on device discount waived activation fee. Not available if with Metro T-Mobile in the past 180 days. Network freedom and flexibility.
55:54 Speaker 05 What you want in a health care plan? With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals. No kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.
Previous Behind the Scenes of Pablo's History-Making "Family Feud" Adventure Next From Ronaldo to D-Wade: Athlete Statues, Reviewed by Pulitzer-Winning Art Critic Jerry Saltz Page updated November 6, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated