Share & Atone & Tell with Nick Wright and Kevin Wildes

The co-hosts of "First Things First" join their arch-frenemy to debate: Should incorrect predictions be embarrassing? What's the best word in the sports discourse? And who is famous best? Plus: the second-smartest person in sports media, ranking rankings, flying cars without stereos, Sully Sullenberger, The Sam Darnoldification of Sports, and an ice-cream sandwich compliment. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:45Pablo Torre?

  This episode is brought to you by Apollo.io. A lot of the stories on this show start the same way. Something that looks pretty simple turns out to be a mess, once you look under the hood. Well, it's no different in the sales world. Your team has a tool for finding prospects, a different tool for reaching out to them, and a third for keeping track of it all. On paper, that's a system. In practice, it's a salesperson spending the better part of the day copying names from one tab into another, and not much of it actually selling. Apollo.io is a platform that helps sales teams find the right buyers and reach out to them. It brings prospecting, outreach, and follow-up into one place, instead of several separate tools.

• 1:27Pablo Torre?

  It's used by sales teams of all sizes, from small businesses to larger organizations, and it's built for teams who want less manual busywork and more time with buyers. If your marketing and sales teams are trying to work from the same view of the customer, it's worth a look. Sign up for free at Apollo.io. That's Apollo.io. This episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out is brought to you by McDonald's. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Medium Fries and a Drink is now $8. And look, I've chased down a lot of strange stories, but nothing quite like what's inside a Quarter Pounder with Cheese. It is 100% fresh beef, cooked right when you order it, with no artificial flavors, colors, fillers, or preservatives in the beef.

• 2:10Pablo Torre?

  The onions are hand-topped by someone who knows the perfect amount by memory, two slices of cheese and a star, and two pickles, side by side. So every bite gets both. And every time one's ordered, a cowbell sound rings in the kitchen. That's the grill master's cue to put a fresh patty on the grill. My move? QPC, fries and a drink after a long day of recording. That is my happy place. The Quarter Pounder with Cheese with Fries and a Drink, now $8 for a limited time only, only at McDonald's. For a limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California, and for delivery. Fresh beef not available in Alaska and Hawaii.

• 2:54Pablo Torre?

  Offer not valid for delivery. Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre. Today's episode is brought to you by DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours. And today, we're gonna find out what this sound is.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  I'm not acting, but thank you. I don't think he's acting. It's just a character. He's just a real-life character.

• 3:15Pablo Torre?

  Right after this ad.

• 3:18Speaker 03

  You're listening to DraftKings Network.

• 3:33Pablo Torre?

  What a delight to have you both here, by the way.

• 3:35Speaker 02

  You know, thanks for having us.

• 3:37Pablo Torre?

  Yeah. You're taking stock of your surroundings, Kevin.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  Well, I've seen, you know, I'm a big fan.

• 3:43Pablo Torre?

  Oh, yeah. Waiting for Nick to chime in with a compliment, but none has come.

• 3:49Speaker 04

  I didn't, I don't like to come over the top on someone else's compliment.

• 3:55Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 3:56Speaker 04

  And I also don't like to lie.

• 3:57Pablo Torre?

  Hmm.

• 3:58Speaker 04

  So I was in a weird spot, you know, kind of a double win there.

• 4:04Speaker 04

  But, uh, by the way, evidently, my hair's getting screwed up by the headphones.

• 4:07Pablo Torre?

  I think it looks great.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Your hair has been looking good.

• 4:10Speaker 04

  No, I appreciate that.

• 4:11Pablo Torre?

  All of our hair's looking pretty good.

• 4:12Speaker 04

  There's, Pablo's got great hair. Wild's has great hair. I just, my hair's fine. I'm in a room with two people, objectively, with better hair than me. My hair gets graded on a curve because I used to have a shaved head and people thought that was by force than by choice. So people oddly think this is like fake hair. Um, but set that aside.

• 4:34Pablo Torre?

  We're gonna rank everything in the room, by the way.

• 4:35Speaker 04

  The time this episode is over.

• 4:37Pablo Torre?

  Rankings matter. You know what? Can I just say something? These people that think they're too goddamn good to like, oh, for lists and rankings and whatever, that's what life is. I'm not into people that think they're too good for what everyone enjoys.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  Rankings are number one, dude.

• 4:53Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 4:53Speaker 02

  I don't even know who's number two.

• 4:54Pablo Torre?

  Rankings.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  Rankings are number one, as far as ways to organize things.

• 4:58Pablo Torre?

  Number one.

• 4:58Speaker 02

  Number one.

• 4:59Pablo Torre?

  Number one, rankings. Number two, art.

• 5:03Pablo Torre?

  And that's the end of the list.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  Just rankings and art.

• 5:05Pablo Torre?

  Yeah. Let's all get claps, though. You good?

• 5:10Pablo Torre?

  No, that was a good clap.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Missed it.

• 5:13Pablo Torre?

  Best clap, Nick. Second best clap, me. Worst clap, Wilds.

• 5:21Pablo Torre?

  Okay, so you should know that the reason that I've decided to start the new year with Nick Wright and Kevin Wilds here with me in studio is for a very particular reason. Nick and Wilds, in case you did not know, co-host a popular sports television show called First Things First over on FS1, or as they called the show at the start of one episode last year.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  The show that's gonna vanquish Pablo Torre.

• 5:46Pablo Torre?

  Oh, come on. Don't put that on the air.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Why, I'm serious about it.

• 5:49Pablo Torre?

  Okay, all right.

• 5:53Pablo Torre?

  And shout out to their co-host, by the way, Chris Broussard, who you could hear at the end of that video just then, just immediately washing his hands of all of this. But my feud with Nick and Kevin actually began a lot earlier than that. And so I needed to begin this episode, which will go unusually deep inside of the business of sports media and the art of giving takes and the crafting of magic words and the ranking of celebrity, because Nick started off originally as a solo radio host. And Wilds started off as a television producer that I worked with at ESPN. And I just needed to confront them about the last time that the three of us had been together in person, which was, naturally, at Kevin Wilds.

• 6:38Pablo Torre?

  Wild's family holiday party.

• 6:41Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 6:41Pablo Torre?

  December 2023, Nick. It's the Upper West Side. It's almost Christmas. I see you.

• 6:47Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 6:48Pablo Torre?

  And you say to me something that I've been waiting over a year to talk to you about.

• 6:54Speaker 04

  Great, because I have no recollection.

• 6:56Pablo Torre?

  You say to me.

• 6:58Speaker 04

  This is great.

• 6:59Pablo Torre?

  I think you're the second smartest person in sports media.

• 7:05Speaker 04

  I called you second?

• 7:08Speaker 04

  I would have thought maybe third, but sure, yeah. Did I have myself first or Bomani first?

• 7:13Pablo Torre?

  I never followed up, until now. I want the rest of these fucking rankings.

• 7:20Speaker 04

  Well, do I think I am the smartest guy in sports media? Obviously, I think that. I would, I would, and I would think anyone that is in the lane I'm in, if they think there's someone smarter than them, I would lose respect for them.

• 7:34Pablo Torre?

  Is the lane you're in breathing person?

• 7:36Speaker 04

  No, I don't think I'm the smartest person in the world. That's ridiculous. I don't even think I'm one of the, no. But I'm, I'm in an industry where the barrier for entry of intelligence is not exactly high.

• 7:48Pablo Torre?

  How dare you.

• 7:48Speaker 04

  And I.

• 7:49Pablo Torre?

  How dare you.

• 7:50Speaker 04

  And the, the lane I have is the annoyingly accurate smart guy.

• 7:58Speaker 02

  He has been right about the Chiefs. You called that one.

• 8:00Speaker 04

  Well.

• 8:01Pablo Torre?

  That is at least one third true annoyingly accurate smart.

• 8:06Speaker 04

  I would just ask the audience, what else are we going to assign my success to? My look? No. My, I got a great voice? No. Connections? No. Athleticism? No. Likability? Pretty, clearly not. It's like, god damn it, that guy really irritates me, but he's smart. I learned something and he's right a lot.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  That's a great take.

• 8:37Speaker 04

  I mean, wha- what do we assign Wild's success to? He's wa- incredibly handsome. He's one of the funniest people I've ever met.

• 8:44Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 8:44Speaker 04

  He's super likable.

• 8:46Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, well dressed.

• 8:47Speaker 04

  If he had all of those things and was the smartest guy in the room, I don't think he, I think he'd be president.

• 8:54Pablo Torre?

  But, but this is, this is the.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  I don't know if I complimented or dissed there.

• 8:59Pablo Torre?

  I think, I think.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  I think it's 60-40 diss.

• 9:02Pablo Torre?

  It's a real ice cream sandwich of a compliment.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Nothing great at all.

• 9:06Speaker 04

  But I also think it really says.

• 9:09Pablo Torre?

  A profound amount about you that it's stuck with you for 14 months because it means that you, you, you're, you operate under the same assumption I do, that you're the smartest guy in the business. It's hard to debate that, actually.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  Who you want to be the smartest to?

• 9:23Pablo Torre?

  Want to be is a real loaded clause.

• 9:28Speaker 02

  You guys are...

• 9:30Pablo Torre?

  Do you know what you said?

• 9:31Speaker 02

  See why this guy's my rival? Do you see? This rivals thing is more interesting. Do you get it? Having like a... We're, we're, we're 30 seconds away to debating the salary cap.

• 9:42Pablo Torre?

  Second apron, oh! Look at the second apron, that doesn't work! It's so important for Wilds to be here. It's so important for Wilds to be here, uh, because I think... It's so punitive, can't make anything happen. Shut up.

• 9:56Pablo Torre?

  Meanwhile, Wilds' take is like, "Why is it an apron?" Why is it an apron? Okay, here we go.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  No, do the rivals thing.

• 10:04Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, it's, I, I want to catch people up on that.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:07Pablo Torre?

  Which is that Nick declared on Levitard's show that he has rivals.

• 10:11Speaker 04

  Kevin Wilds makes fun of me because he says that this is an insane way to look at my career, but I just assumed everyone looked at it this way, uh, which is I have a rivals list. Everyone in the media that is within two years of me or younger than me, I must vanquish and I must be more successful than, I have to do it, they are all my rivals, and the reason I mention it is, ri- right now, rising to the top of the rivals list is Pablo Torre, and he will be vanquished. The top Pablo's younger than me, Pablo made fun of me a bit on the show the other day, which only solidified that he is my rival, and it doesn't matter that we're friendly, it doesn't matter that he's always been kind to me, it doesn't matter that I was at a Christmas party with him, I will vanquish Pablo Torre.

• 10:56Speaker 02

  You guys at one point were both like, young.

• 11:01Pablo Torre?

  I've known Pablo for so long. I'm like, remember when Pablo was like the young guy at ESPN? Like, yeah, Pablo's young and you were young.

• 11:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 11:09Pablo Torre?

  And now you're 40.

• 11:10Speaker 04

  Right, but so.

• 11:11Pablo Torre?

  I am 39.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  I mean, that's basically, that's 40. That's even worse than 40, honestly.

• 11:16Speaker 04

  I don't, I, I don't know.

• 11:19Pablo Torre?

  That's a good take.

• 11:20Speaker 04

  I don't think it is unique in any industry to look at the other high achievers that are around your age and measure yourself against them. So everyone that was around my age, even though we're not young anymore, they're all rivals.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  And then I tried to set up like a beef. It didn't really take off.

• 11:43Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, I, I was.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  You said some bombs over, you, you said some swear words. I was like, yeah.

• 11:49Pablo Torre?

  I know. I think, I think I went.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  But I think we were on vacation. I was like, why'd you launch the, the rivalry beef?

• 11:55Pablo Torre?

  I hate Nick right now.

• 11:57Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 11:57Pablo Torre?

  And, uh, which, which camera can I, can I, can I speak into? This one right here? Oh yeah, all of them. Nick Wright, fuck you. Kevin Wilds, uh, your C word.

• 12:10Speaker 05

  Capitalism. Content. Capitalism.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  You guys run a break. I think Pablo started a beef, but we're not even gonna respond.

• 12:17Pablo Torre?

  And first things first was on vacation and I was just yelling into the, the noise editing foam in this room.

• 12:42Pablo Torre?

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• 13:12Pablo Torre?

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• 13:56Pablo Torre?

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• 14:41Pablo Torre?

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• 15:26Pablo Torre?

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• 15:43Speaker 06

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• 16:18Pablo Torre?

  We do have a segment that I wanted to do, and the segment was going to be "Take Atonement." And when I texted you guys about this, immediately and unsurprisingly, Nick refused to play along with the segment.

• 16:28Speaker 04

  I didn't refuse to play along.

• 16:30Pablo Torre?

  Wild was down, I was down, you were not.

• 16:32Speaker 04

  I, no, I, again...

• 16:34Pablo Torre?

  Do you want me to read into the court transcript while you texted?

• 16:38Speaker 04

  Please, and see if the audience thinks that I refused.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Also just lie, say he said something.

• 16:42Speaker 04

  No, read exactly what I wrote.

• 16:44Pablo Torre?

  Pablo, you are the number one smartest person in sports media.

• 16:47Speaker 02

  Strike it from the record.

• 16:49Pablo Torre?

  And then, Wild replies, "I'm in." The next morning, Nick replies, "I'm not saying I'm not in."

• 16:57Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 16:57Pablo Torre?

  "But I'm sure you guys will understand that asking me to compile my allegedly worst opinions assumes facts not in evidence."

• 17:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:04Pablo Torre?

  Parentheses, "That such opinions exist." Closed parentheses, period. New text, "This could be a Herculean undertaking."

• 17:12Speaker 04

  Exactly. So, as I stated before, I never said I wasn't in. I just said it's gonna be hard. But I've got some things ready, but do you want to go first, since you guys were the ones in first?

• 17:20Pablo Torre?

  You're saying that you have generated...

• 17:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, I've got some ones that didn't work, for sure.

• 17:25Pablo Torre?

  Is it this one?

• 17:26Speaker 04

  I'm ready to move from the flirtation stage to the commitment stage. And I am picking the Chicago Bears... Wow. ...and Caleb Williams to win the NFC and to be a rookie quarterback representative in the Super Bowl. Yeah, I mean, that's the obvious one. Now, I am curious, if Jaden Daniels were to make the Super Bowl, that take becomes basically half-right. Because most of the people's objection was a rookie quarterback's never made the Super Bowl. And it would have been like, if you say, "Hey, an asteroid's gonna hit Earth in..."

• 18:03Speaker 04

  Peru in 2028 and an asteroid hits Argentina in 2028. You weren't as wrong as the people who were like, no way. It's not coming. You were definitely more right. And so Jaden Daniels season kind of indicates the opinion a bit, but obviously didn't go that way. There's a whole nother sliding doors thing of Tyreek Stevenson doesn't taunt the fans and the Bears get to five and two and Jaden loses that game. What we're talking about, but no, that was a bad take. The thing about sports predictions is their predictions. And the, you know, as, as try as I might, can't flawlessly tell the future. Yeah, that would have been probably, I don't know if that would have been the number one draft pick for the wrongest take I've had.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  I mean, it's a take though.

• 18:46Pablo Torre?

  That was just the one from this past year.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  I mean, that's a great take though.

• 18:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, obviously.

• 18:51Pablo Torre?

  You're saying the process of the take was good, the result was bad.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  If the take cuts through and it makes sense. It's a great take. It doesn't necessarily have to be right or wrong.

• 19:02Speaker 04

  What was your request? Since you have the text pulled up.

• 19:05Pablo Torre?

  Uh, the request.

• 19:06Speaker 04

  Uh, bad predictions was.

• 19:08Pablo Torre?

  It was actually, I thought it was a magnanimous offer. It was a take exorcism. We all volunteer a take that we are embarrassed by.

• 19:15Speaker 04

  One take, then that would have been, then it wouldn't have been Herculean. I thought we needed like a long list.

• 19:19Pablo Torre?

  We do have this take also, just for the record on that.

• 19:22Speaker 04

  I don't believe in the Eagles. I don't believe in their coach and I'm starting not to believe in their quarterback. Yeah, I mean, two thirds of that applies. I don't believe in the quarterback and I don't believe in the coach. That now I was dead wrong on Saquon and his impact and Brew nailed that.

• 19:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 04

  The thing that I was going to bring to the take exorcism was I did pick the Lakers to beat the Nuggets.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, I love that. My shining moment.

• 19:56Speaker 04

  Here's the other thing. I don't understand people being embarrassed by incorrect sports predictions. I think that old takes exposed guy existing has been one of the greatest things that ever happened in my career. Because I think there's a lot of people who are like, oh, boy. I don't want to get old takes exposed. Let me water this one down. Do I care? Like, what is like, oh, no. Oh, no. This loser is gonna retweet the thing that I said.

• 20:27Speaker 02

  I like that guy for the record.

• 20:28Pablo Torre?

  Um, isn't there some amount of tension, though, in being guy who is the most right? And being guy who does not feel an ounce of pain when he is wrong? Isn't that in conflict? Can you be both?

• 20:41Speaker 04

  Because I take so much pride in being correct. I should feel shame when I'm wrong?

• 20:47Pablo Torre?

  It's a classic, uh, having cake and trying to eat it as well. Situation.

• 20:52Speaker 04

  How so?

• 20:53Pablo Torre?

  Because you want to be the guy who's right, but also when you're wrong, you say, I don't actually get bothered by being wrong.

• 21:01Speaker 04

  Well, it's the, it's the.

• 21:02Pablo Torre?

  It's a lot of upside, but almost there's no downside that you are willing to absorb.

• 21:06Speaker 04

  I, I fundamentally disagree. It is the life of a in a different genre, professional gambler.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  I knew it. I knew it.

• 21:19Speaker 04

  Which is, I am going to, in a theoretical world, be the world's greatest sports better. And I'm gonna make millions of dollars a year betting sports. And my path to doing that is being correct 56% of the time. And part of that means I know going in, I am going to be wrong two out of five. And if every time I'm wrong, I'm like, oh, what am I gonna do now? Then that is, you are the ultimate, trust the process guy.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:56Speaker 04

  You are the ultimate.

• 21:57Pablo Torre?

  This is unfortunately true.

• 21:58Speaker 04

  And so, no, I don't, I don't go into every football season saying, well, we're gonna be perfect. I go into every football season saying, I'm gonna be better than. All my rivals, and luckily, all of them, year after year, convince themselves the greatest team any of us have ever seen is probably not that good. So I start off way ahead.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:22Speaker 04

  And I only need a few other things to fall to be the rightest one.

• 22:25Pablo Torre?

  Nick does have a remarkable thing going wilds where, and again, this is not the original observation, but somehow his portfolio includes LeBron James.

• 22:35Speaker 04

  I said this a few months ago, and I believe it 100% to be true. He'll never be bad.

• 22:40Pablo Torre?

  And Patrick Mahomes.

• 22:41Speaker 04

  You know why teams do weird [BLEEP] when they're playing the Chiefs? Because staring across the sideline and seeing Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid terrifies them.

• 22:53Pablo Torre?

  And he has marked himself as an underdog somehow despite those being the two items at the top of his list. Can I be prying and rude on the subject of Nick's relationship with Patrick Mahomes and LeBron James?

• 23:07Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 23:07Pablo Torre?

  The idea that LeBron or Patrick Mahomes would be in the midst of some take storm, and they would see yours and be like, thank you for saying that.

• 23:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think they appreciate it. Yeah, I think they appreciate it.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  Shingun has never reached out to me. All I do is, all I do is sing the guy's praises. I was early on that.

• 23:27Speaker 04

  But Shingun is learning from Joker. He's baby Joker. Okay. He is. Okay. Baby Joker. Okay, that's fine.

• 23:36Pablo Torre?

  Being his personal attorney has not.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  Pro bono publicist for Shingun. This dude is out here. He should make the All-Star team.

• 23:45Speaker 04

  You really should get more love.

• 23:46Speaker 02

  From Shingun?

• 23:47Speaker 04

  From your guys.

• 23:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, because my guys.

• 23:51Speaker 04

  Well, hold on.

• 23:52Speaker 02

  I rock with my guys hard.

• 23:54Speaker 04

  Matt Jones did start following you on Twitter.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 23:57Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:58Pablo Torre?

  So does that mean that he's not being submitted to the center of the table for a take atonement?

• 24:03Speaker 02

  No, I mean, I can get into that.

• 24:05Pablo Torre?

  I thought that that's what you were going to get into.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Never.

• 24:07Pablo Torre?

  But now it seems like you're compromised.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  I'm never going to leave Matt Jones, basically, because Sam Darnold, I call, I'm telling this, the Sam Darnoldification of sports. You want a $5 word? Darnoldification. Sam Darnold's success.

• 24:22Speaker 02

  Has made it possible for me to never sell any bad take. Anywhere. Off play action, stepping up, launching downfield and it is caught! Twisting, turning, touchdown, Jefferson, Minnesota's back in front. Like Sam Darnold was given up on by the Jets, the Panthers, and then when he got to the 49ers, what was it Shanahan is like, he reminds me like, why can't Sam Darnold be good? Steve Young got good at 30 and we're like, whoa, that's a compliment. That kind of hit my radar like, time to get into the Sam Darnold take business? And Sam Darnold is amazing.

• 25:04Speaker 02

  So why is, was, is Mac Jones right now as good as Carolina Sam Darnold?

• 25:10Pablo Torre?

  Probably not.

• 25:15Speaker 02

  But.

• 25:15Pablo Torre?

  Never leaving Mac Jones.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  But point taken. That's it. It's, it's the ceiling of. But the. Guys, I'm never giving up on anybody until they retire. And like, I don't know, maybe USFL, he can, he can come back.

• 25:31Pablo Torre?

  But the point, the point you're making is that Sam Darnold was a turning point in the sports discourse, such that because he has had a comeback like this, now we cannot write off anybody.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  Certainly quarterbacks who are so situationally coached, wide receiver, offensive line dependent.

• 25:46Pablo Torre?

  Sure. What I'm getting though is that neither of you are going to play this game.

• 25:50Speaker 02

  I know, what do you mean?

• 25:51Pablo Torre?

  You're both rejecting the concept of having a take to a tone.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  I've said three Pablo, you haven't said one of yours.

• 25:57Pablo Torre?

  Ben Simmons.

• 25:59Speaker 02

  I'm not giving up on Ben Simmons. If he gets his back healthy.

• 26:02Pablo Torre?

  Ben Simmons unfollowed me on Twitter.

• 26:05Pablo Torre?

  Ben Simmons is my answer.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  You're giving up on Ben Simmons?

• 26:08Pablo Torre?

  I think I have to.

• 26:08Speaker 02

  I'll believe in Ben Simmons then?

• 26:09Pablo Torre?

  I think I have to. My take on Ben Simmons was always, and this is, I'll, I'll do a little Nick Wright for you. Nick? If I gave you a flying car, you'd be impressed, right?

• 26:19Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 26:20Pablo Torre?

  If this car was the fastest car in the world, you'd be impressed?

• 26:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:25Pablo Torre?

  If this car didn't have a stereo, you'd be bummed, but you'd still think incredible car.

• 26:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:33Pablo Torre?

  That's Ben Simmons.

• 26:34Speaker 04

  That's such a terrible take. I'll stick with your analogy. If because the lack of brakes exist, you're afraid to drive the car fast, but it can go fast. You're afraid to take it on the freeway, but it can drive above traffic. Then it doesn't matter. It can do all those other things. If the other guys in league history who have had a hole in their game, it didn't metastasize in a way that it undermined every other piece of their game. And that's what happened to this kid. And I don't know. I don't. I don't know the full psychology of it, but it's been, we've known it for five years.

• 27:13Pablo Torre?

  I don't like that Nick has workshopped my take into a better take. Although I think my analogy is still good.

• 27:18Speaker 02

  Is Ben Simmons number one fan and supporter available real estate?

• 27:24Speaker 04

  Yes. You want it?

• 27:26Speaker 02

  I mean, if it's available.

• 27:27Pablo Torre?

  What we have found out today is that Kevin Wilds can become.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  The number one Ben Simmons guy?

• 27:33Pablo Torre?

  The number one Ben Simmons guy.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'll do that.

• 27:36Speaker 04

  Pablo wants you to atone for a take. I have atoned for the record.

• 27:39Speaker 02

  I don't know why.

• 27:39Speaker 04

  I'm not playing along. I atoned for the Saquon not working with the Eagles, the Bears making the Super Bowl, Derrick Henry not making a difference for the Ravens. I'll throw in. And the Lakers beating the Nuggets.

• 27:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:54Speaker 04

  In last year's playoffs. So there's, there's four.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  I don't think, I don't think I may need to atone for anything.

• 28:00Speaker 04

  How about no one's beating the Nuggets in a seven game series and they won literally one seven game series?

• 28:05Pablo Torre?

  That was, that was worthy.

• 28:06Speaker 04

  And then blew a 20 point lead at home.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  That wasn't great. How do I remain so confident? I'm always reminding myself, Ben, no one's beating Denver in a seven game series. I'm going to say it a hundred times. I'm always reminding myself.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  I'm not atoning for that, though.

• 28:27Pablo Torre?

  You can do a non-sports take atonement. I didn't specify. You can do any... Is there any take, Wilds, that you regret that you've come around on in the last year? Or more. We can do more. I'll give you one in the meantime while you're thinking.

• 28:41Speaker 02

  A non-sports take that I've just been wrong about. I'm like, you know what? This is good.

• 28:45Speaker 04

  He said he has one he wants to give.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, go ahead. I'll brainstorm.

• 28:49Pablo Torre?

  I'm a morning guy now. I used to want to stay up late. Now I wake up at like 5:30 a.m.

• 28:54Speaker 02

  Was that a take or just like an evolution of your life?

• 28:57Pablo Torre?

  I think I was-

• 28:57Speaker 02

  You're like, mornings suck.

• 28:58Pablo Torre?

  I think I was dead wrong. Yeah. My take previously had been, I will never want to wake up this early. And now I'm regularly waking up this early. And it's better.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:10Pablo Torre?

  I get so much more done.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's better. Yeah, the mornings are great.

• 29:13Pablo Torre?

  Also, being a dad, I feel like I get to spend time and, you know?

• 29:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's the take?

• 29:18Pablo Torre?

  You have points on that.

• 29:19Speaker 02

  That mornings are better than night?

• 29:20Pablo Torre?

  Yeah, exactly. I'll fall asleep at 11:00 p.m., 10:30 even.

• 29:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's just called aging.

• 29:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's just maturity.

• 29:35Pablo Torre?

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• 30:19Pablo Torre?

  and I am feeling ready to push through to the end of the day. For a better way to stay hydrated, go to instanthydration.com/ptfo and use my promo code PTFO for over 40% off your first subscription order. It's Instant Hydration's best offer available. That's instanthydration.com/ptfo.

• 30:39Pablo Torre?

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• 31:22Pablo Torre?

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• 32:03Pablo Torre?

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• 32:56Pablo Torre?

  This also brings us to the vocabulary portion.

• 32:58Speaker 04

  So what is this portion?

• 33:00Pablo Torre?

  It's just the idea.

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Favorite portion.

• 33:02Speaker 04

  It's your favorite?

• 33:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, go tell Pablo, sorry.

• 33:04Pablo Torre?

  Wild, set it up, please.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  Words that work for sports debate. Maybe like magic words. My favorite is deserve. Deserve is one of my favorite words. Does Lamar deserve to be a 10-point favorite? Does Russell Wilson deserve to be a 10-point underdog? Do the Chiefs deserve the bye? Like, what, they're 15-1? Yeah, they do. Yeah, but do they deserve it? It's just so good. So I was trying to.

• 33:40Pablo Torre?

  Right, it's weighted with morality.

• 33:43Speaker 02

  Oh, it's just fantastic.

• 33:44Pablo Torre?

  Do they cosmically, yeah, merit this thing that has?

• 33:49Speaker 02

  So do you have, do you know the other ones that we use on the show?

• 33:51Pablo Torre?

  Reaction.

• 33:52Speaker 02

  No.

• 33:53Speaker 04

  What do you mean?

• 33:54Pablo Torre?

  Nick's so bad at this game. He's so bad at this.

• 33:56Speaker 04

  Why would I be good at this? I don't even understand the game.

• 33:59Speaker 02

  The correct answer was disrespected.

• 34:03Pablo Torre?

  Hmm.

• 34:05Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Is Sean Payton being disrespected?

• 34:09Speaker 04

  Okay, I get it.

• 34:11Speaker 02

  Those are, I think.

• 34:12Pablo Torre?

  And another one? Should the Lions be afraid?

• 34:16Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's good.

• 34:17Pablo Torre?

  Of anyone in the NFC?

• 34:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:19Speaker 04

  And we do the, we do another version of that, which is how scary are?

• 34:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know that one.

• 34:25Speaker 04

  The Bengals? Are the Bengals the scariest?

• 34:27Speaker 02

  The scary, yes, scariest. Scary is good, too, because it's just, it's very like, you get immediate reaction. I'm not gonna be scared of that.

• 34:35Pablo Torre?

  But the subtext in the best vocabulary words in this way are always the words that imply some level of disrespect.

• 34:41Speaker 02

  Yes. Deserve, disrespect, fear. Unfair, we use a lot. Unfair, that blank? Unfair, is this unfair? But it's all based on disrespect.

• 34:51Pablo Torre?

  Justice, a cosmic sense of justice.

• 34:54Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, it's just, it's to get.

• 34:57Speaker 04

  Wilds wants more emotion and less analytical responses.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:04Speaker 04

  Typically, that creates the best show.

• 35:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, some sort of, some combination of the two.

• 35:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:09Speaker 02

  But an emotional response with a, with a statistical foundation is nice.

• 35:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, no, no, it has to be based in fact, but a feel to it. Yeah, that's what makes-

• 35:20Speaker 02

  With philosophical kind of clash.

• 35:23Pablo Torre?

  So I did high school debate. One of the things that I learned is that a key to ensuring a messy disagreement is to never define the term that you're actually debating.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  Oh, and be valuable.

• 35:36Pablo Torre?

  Valuable, greatest. These are things where Nick has, Nick's brain has already activated. If you were to put an FMRI on Nick's brain, as I said those words, you would have had already, like a decision tree of just arguments about-

• 35:49Speaker 02

  So on, in the debate team, that's, that's something from like the, I'm not totally, I've seen a few debates, but I'm not totally familiar with the format, but-

• 35:58Pablo Torre?

  Terrible.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  That's something that the initial-

• 36:00Pablo Torre?

  You will have to spend time in your, in your opening case, like saying that you define the terms. You attempt to define the terms so that you both agree on what you're arguing about. And if you don't, you end up eternally debating Michael Jordan versus LeBron.

• 36:17Speaker 02

  That sounds great.

• 36:19Pablo Torre?

  Like, if you were to just dive into it without agreeing on what value means, you would never actually engage, or at least you wouldn't engage with what the other person is actually trying to say until like several levels into the argument that you were making.

• 36:34Speaker 02

  That's the fun part, though. Taking the fun. It sounds like you're taking the fun out of it.

• 36:37Pablo Torre?

  Well, that's what I mean. Messy disagreement is actually-

• 36:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I like the messiness of it.

• 36:41Pablo Torre?

  Great to watch two people really good at disagreeing, uh, do, but really bad if you're trying to resolve anything.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:49Pablo Torre?

  Which is why you don't actually want to have a word that is so clean and binary.

• 36:54Speaker 02

  Oh, man.

• 36:54Pablo Torre?

  You want to have something that you just lose yourself in.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  Okay. Yeah, now you know.

• 36:59Speaker 04

  Got it.

• 37:02Pablo Torre?

  I hate you guys.

• 37:03Speaker 04

  What?

• 37:04Speaker 02

  What happened?

• 37:04Speaker 04

  That was bad. That was interesting.

• 37:05Speaker 02

  It seemed like there was a period at the end of that.

• 37:07Pablo Torre?

  Here's a question that I've genuinely been curious about with you guys.

• 37:14Pablo Torre?

  The best form of famous. Who is famous best? Whose fame do you want? The whole world is available to draft. Whose famous do you want?

• 37:26Speaker 04

  Is there any financial association of this?

• 37:29Pablo Torre?

  Yes.

• 37:29Speaker 04

  Or is it just the fame?

• 37:30Pablo Torre?

  There is financial association with it. You can monetize it. You can do whatever you want.

• 37:34Speaker 04

  No, no, no. That's not what I mean. What I mean is, do you get this person's fame and wealth? Or just their fame? I'm not saying you can, you can then make money off that level of fame. What I'm saying is,

• 37:48Speaker 04

  if you s-

• 37:48Speaker 02

  Wildes is-

• 37:49Speaker 04

  Do you understand what I'm s- like, do you understand the question I'm asking you here?

• 37:52Pablo Torre?

  I do.

• 37:53Speaker 04

  Because like, I don't, this is not who I would pick. I don't think Chris Bosh's fame is hyper, hyper monetizable, but he's got a couple hundred million dollars already. So I'm asking if you, in that scenario, if you were to pick Chris Bosh, do you take with you the couple hundred million dollars?

• 38:12Pablo Torre?

  Hmm.

• 38:13Speaker 04

  It's probably more interesting if the answer is no, that you're just getting their fame.

• 38:16Pablo Torre?

  Right, right. It's celebrity.

• 38:18Speaker 02

  Do you have a answer for this?

• 38:20Pablo Torre?

  I have a draft pick.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  Okay, I want to hear yours, if that's okay.

• 38:24Pablo Torre?

  Yeah.

• 38:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:26Pablo Torre?

  I want to be Mike Trout.

• 38:27Speaker 02

  Mike Trout?

• 38:29Pablo Torre?

  I want to be revered among those who know what it is that I do and respect why it is that I'm good at it.

• 38:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 38:36Pablo Torre?

  But I also want the plausible deniability of ever actually being identified as, or stopped as Mike Trout.

• 38:45Speaker 02

  I mean, as far as a number one pick, like, can Mike Trout get into every restaurant? Because if you can't, if like, if Mike Trout and his wife are going like, they said it's gonna be 15 minutes, maybe 45, like, she'd be like, "Honey, you're Mike Trout." Like, "I know, but I play with the Angels."

• 39:02Pablo Torre?

  What if, what if Mike Trout has his assistant, that's just him, who has registered?

• 39:07Speaker 02

  If I'm having a fake assistant, then I'm not famous enough.

• 39:11Pablo Torre?

  Send a reservation request with the hyperlink to my baseball reference page.

• 39:17Speaker 02

  I don't know if that plays. I think I have a better answer.

• 39:20Speaker 04

  Let me hear yours.

• 39:21Pablo Torre?

  What do you got?

• 39:21Speaker 02

  Sully.

• 39:22Pablo Torre?

  Sully Sullenberger?

• 39:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, Hero. Hero with a mustache. I think Hero, like, Hero for being cool.

• 39:32Speaker 02

  Not just saving lives. You didn't just, you know. You're not a scientist that in, you know. Wow, this, this invention that you made saved a lot of lives, which is very good. Don't get me wrong. Like, no, I saved lives in a dramatic way. In the city. Now with the Tom Hanks movie, I guess he had to go to. People were mad at Sully for some reason.

• 39:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, but, yeah.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  I didn't, I didn't like that part at all.

• 39:58Pablo Torre?

  Did they cancel Sully at the end of Sully?

• 40:00Speaker 02

  No, I remember he was in the.

• 40:01Speaker 04

  In the midst of it, people were, there was. If the Hanks movie is correct. He was really raked over the coals about, did you actually have to land in the Hudson?

• 40:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know who's giving Sully.

• 40:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  I would have gone to the congressional meeting, they came in, it's Sully.

• 40:18Pablo Torre?

  The events of January 15th, 2009 have been well documented. And rather than recite them now in great detail. I want only to reiterate to the subcommittee. That the successful outcome was achieved by the actions of many.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  I think Sully is just great. Everybody loves him.

• 40:37Speaker 04

  But so, but.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  Maybe he's got some waning fame, but he's just.

• 40:40Speaker 04

  Right, but so you are.

• 40:41Speaker 02

  Hero is nice.

• 40:42Pablo Torre?

  You like, you want people to say thank you.

• 40:44Speaker 04

  Hero's nice.

• 40:45Speaker 02

  But like.

• 40:46Speaker 04

  But let me ask.

• 40:46Speaker 02

  Hero is pretty sick.

• 40:47Speaker 04

  Let me, definitely sick, but let me ask a question. To me, that, that answer tells me you don't value at all. Like, recognized on the street.

• 40:59Speaker 02

  No, that's probably a detriment. I don't think famous people like that at all.

• 41:02Speaker 04

  So I think.

• 41:03Pablo Torre?

  Some people don't. Others.

• 41:06Speaker 04

  Tommy DeVito's agent lives for it.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  That's a good level of fame.

• 41:12Speaker 04

  But, uh.

• 41:13Pablo Torre?

  If your draft pick is Tommy DeVito's agent.

• 41:15Speaker 04

  No, that's not, no, no, no, that's not my draft pick. I was just saying, so it was just interesting that Wild's picked a guy who I think.

• 41:23Pablo Torre?

  Sean Stellato.

• 41:24Speaker 04

  Only, yeah, right, only becomes.

• 41:29Speaker 04

  Recognized upon introduction and never randomly.

• 41:34Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 41:35Speaker 04

  You understand what I mean? Like, people hear the name and I think most people know it.

• 41:40Speaker 02

  If you have the stash.

• 41:42Speaker 04

  Even with the stash, I gotta tell you right now, I don't know what he, if I close my eyes and think of that guy, I just think of Tom Hanks. Like, I don't remember what the guy actually looks like. And if he was walking down the street, I wouldn't know him. What happened to us on the way in? That, to me, is awesome at that exact level. When we were walking in the building, somebody just walked by, I was like, "Hey, fellas, love the show." Like, I, I, that's a great, like, endorphin boost.

• 42:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:12Speaker 04

  I also think being truly famous would be exhausting, and I don't think that would be fun.

• 42:18Speaker 02

  No, but if the guy was like, "Hey," Wild's gonna say, "Yeah." He's like, "You're amazing for landing a plane and saving all those lives."

• 42:27Speaker 04

  I agree.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 42:29Speaker 04

  I'm trying to think of the name of, like, who this describes. Cause my answer would be someone who, if they want to be recognized, is wildly famous and, like you said, can get in anywhere, no weight, but also with sunglasses and a baseball cap on.

• 42:51Speaker 02

  That's Mike Trout.

• 42:52Speaker 04

  Is.

• 42:52Speaker 02

  That's the Mike Trout.

• 42:53Pablo Torre?

  That's why I drafted Mike Trout, Nick.

• 42:55Speaker 04

  But you're saying that Mike Trout couldn't, can't just get in?

• 42:59Pablo Torre?

  Wait, wait, hold on. Are you describing, like, a DJ? Like, I'm Avicii.

• 43:04Speaker 04

  No, I don't.

• 43:05Pablo Torre?

  If people are like, "Oh, my God."

• 43:05Speaker 04

  No. I'll be honest, I'm lying here. I'm lying. I, whatever level of fame I have, I enjoy, and I would like more. So this, I, I don't want to be anonymous. I, I don't think, I, I think it would bum me out.

• 43:20Speaker 02

  It would bum you out to be anonymous?

• 43:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, because I...

• 43:25Pablo Torre?

  I appreciate Nick's honesty.

• 43:26Speaker 04

  So here's why.

• 43:27Pablo Torre?

  I unfortunately relate to this.

• 43:28Speaker 04

  But I've never... And you're gonna laugh at me, but just follow me here.

• 43:36Speaker 04

  My entire adult life, I've had tiny, slightly increasing fame.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  I buy it like Kansas City radio, yeah.

• 43:44Speaker 04

  Right, so Kansas City, right, and so at 23, once a week, someone will be like, yo, love the show. And it's just slightly, so not only am I, has it never been weird for me? Because it's like watching your kid get taller, like you don't actually recognize it because you see him every day. You know what I mean? Like it's just been, but also I have no recollection of it not being there. So I think Wilds had a whole successful career without any real fame associated with it. And now, in the last five years, has gotten increasing levels of fame.

• 44:26Speaker 04

  So Wilds has a, a standard to remember, like, oh, yeah, yeah, everything, like, I was an adult with a wife and kids, and none of this.

• 44:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're like a child star, basically.

• 44:38Speaker 04

  No, that's not what I, again, that's why I said you're gonna make fun of me.

• 44:40Pablo Torre?

  But to Nick's point, you, Kevin, were a producer.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:44Pablo Torre?

  You were like having secret meetings with Kobe Bryant, once upon a time.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  Secret.

• 44:49Pablo Torre?

  But that's what you were doing, you were like producing, like, shows for the most famous and inconveniently famous people.

• 44:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:57Pablo Torre?

  And Nick and I have been clawing up celebrity mountain. Digging my fingernails into a tree trunk of celebrity.

• 45:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, so that, so, so I think my answer is like, Daniel Day-Lewis.

• 45:16Speaker 04

  I drink your milkshake.

• 45:22Speaker 04

  I drink it up! Because I don't think he-

• 45:25Pablo Torre?

  All that dude tries to do is hide.

• 45:27Speaker 04

  Well, but he's different than me.

• 45:29Pablo Torre?

  It's such a perfect answer for Nick.

• 45:30Speaker 04

  But I think that he, I think that Daniel Day-Lewis, if he wants to just go out and go to Walgreens, is able to do it. But I also think he's like, shit, man, I want to be Daniel Day-Lewis tonight, he obviously can be, that seems awesome.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  I guess so. You're like the chameleon-ness of it.

• 45:50Speaker 04

  So I, because I initially, so someone like- Mark Wahlberg, that seems exhausting. Like, he just has to be Mark Wahlberg at all times.

• 46:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:00Speaker 04

  And everywhere he goes, like, anyone that feels like, "I have to, you know what? I have to have security," that seems exhausting.

• 46:09Pablo Torre?

  Right, Mark Wahlberg walks around thinking that he could do a better job of saving people on an airplane than Sully.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  He did do an airplane movie.

• 46:20Pablo Torre?

  He also believed he could stop 9/11.

• 46:22Speaker 02

  I have another one.

• 46:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 46:24Speaker 02

  Again, it's super, it's even more anonymous. I wrote Winston Wolfe famous.

• 46:30Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 46:30Pablo Torre?

  As in the, the character?

• 46:31Speaker 04

  Fictional character.

• 46:32Speaker 02

  The fictional character Winston Wolfe, where, for some reason, he's in a tuxedo, so he must be in,

• 46:37Pablo Torre?

  That tracks with you.

• 46:38Speaker 02

  He's rolling in these interesting circles. And when, uh, who does it, Ving Rhames?

• 46:44Speaker 04

  Ving Rhames.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  Ving, Rhames, excuse me.

• 46:46Pablo Torre?

  Did you earnestly pronounce it Rhames?

• 46:48Speaker 02

  I didn't know, I don't know how you pronounce Ving Rhames' name, but now I do.

• 46:51Speaker 04

  Mispronunciations are fine, because it means you learned it by reading it instead of hearing it. It actually should be applauded.

• 46:56Speaker 02

  I may have just misremembered it. In any event.

• 46:58Speaker 04

  It's true.

• 46:59Speaker 02

  And then C. L. Jackson, like, they're very excited to see him.

• 47:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:02Speaker 02

  It seems like he's got a nice car, he has connections at the dumpster.

• 47:09Pablo Torre?

  You're Jimmy, right? This is your house? Sure is. I'm Winston Wolfe. I solve problems.

• 47:16Speaker 02

  Like, it just feels like-

• 47:16Pablo Torre?

  He's there to help you get out of a bind.

• 47:18Speaker 02

  But not necessarily, like, I don't want that to be my job necessarily.

• 47:21Speaker 04

  No, but you, what you mean is-

• 47:22Speaker 02

  Within an industry, I'm considered really-

• 47:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, drug kingpin famous.

• 47:30Speaker 02

  That's an interesting type of famous. I do not, I think it's quite dangerous.

• 47:33Speaker 04

  No, I understand, but I, but it's the same type of thing, where it's like, you are anonymous to everyone except for the people who know who you are, and to those people, you're a big deal.

• 47:43Pablo Torre?

  This is-

• 47:44Speaker 02

  And in that element, that's also like, kind of like a Sully thing.

• 47:48Pablo Torre?

  I would, I would, I would urge you to reconsider.

• 47:51Speaker 02

  And do Mike Trout?

• 47:52Pablo Torre?

  Taking Mike Trout.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  I don't think Mike Trout.

• 47:55Pablo Torre?

  He gives you drug kingpin fame.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  I didn't want that.

• 47:57Pablo Torre?

  Without having-

• 47:58Speaker 02

  I do not want drug kingpin fame at all. No, I, I-

• 48:04Speaker 04

  I was just trying to, maybe I should use a different analogy. Phil Ivey.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  It's a good level of fame.

• 48:10Speaker 04

  Where, once again, people who know, know. And to those people, you're a god.

• 48:18Pablo Torre?

  Conspicuous also.

• 48:19Speaker 04

  But also, you're, you know what I mean too, so I think-

• 48:22Speaker 02

  That's what mine is, but it's like, I can wear a tuxedo.

• 48:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:25Speaker 02

  I'm big on, if I can wear a tuxedo.

• 48:27Speaker 04

  That was a good question, Pablo. Do you have a list of questions that we should have let you ask and said we just said dumb stuff for 40 minutes?

• 48:47Pablo Torre?

  We've reached the end of the show, and at the end of every show, we talk about what we found out today. Because it's called Pablo Torre Finds Out. So I will ask us to go around the table, and we all say what it is we found out after hanging out with each other and finding all this stuff out.

• 49:02Pablo Torre?

  I have found out that Nick Wright drafting Daniel Day-Lewis is the perfect answer for a guy who I can't tell

• 49:12Pablo Torre?

  is acting or not.

• 49:14Speaker 04

  You can't tell if I'm acting?

• 49:16Pablo Torre?

  I think you are a method arguer. And that is the highest compliment I can pay to you.

• 49:22Speaker 04

  I'm not acting, but thank you.

• 49:24Speaker 02

  I don't think he's acting. He's just a character. He's just a real-life character.

• 49:32Speaker 02

  What did I learn?

• 49:37Pablo Torre?

  That Sean Stellato was in fact Tommy DeVito's agent.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  No, I knew that.

• 49:39Speaker 04

  He knew that.

• 49:40Pablo Torre?

  I saw you at Yankee Stadium, by the way, at game five.

• 49:43Speaker 04

  We said hello to each other.

• 49:43Pablo Torre?

  Yes, but I think Sean Stellato was also there.

• 49:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, I know, that's the bit that I, Sean Stellato, you know why you recognized him? Because he was walking around begging people to recognize him and hoping someone said, "Please take a picture with me." Like, that's why. Wildes doesn't like me saying this because he thinks it's mean, and it is mean, but sometimes truths need to be spoken.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  Go ahead, you go on what you learned, and then I'll go.

• 50:06Pablo Torre?

  I also just learned that truths need to be spoken.

• 50:07Speaker 04

  I learned I hurt Pablo's feelings. At your Christmas party.

• 50:12Speaker 02

  I don't think you hurt his feelings. I don't think that was the takeaway.

• 50:15Pablo Torre?

  I've learned, I found out that Nick is, uh, projecting.

• 50:19Speaker 04

  Onto my feelings.

• 50:20Speaker 02

  This is falling apart.

• 50:22Speaker 04

  No, it's not.

• 50:22Speaker 02

  I'm trying to find a nicer one, because the one that's actually there, I feel like is not

• 50:26Speaker 04

  Take it.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Kind.

• 50:27Speaker 04

  Take it.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  I think you guys are nuts for not wanting to be anonymous. Like, I feel like you're like headed towards, you're gonna be in the old folks home, be like, hello. I'm like, it's just, I don't know.

• 50:40Speaker 04

  I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be podcasting till I die, so yeah.

• 50:45Speaker 02

  Just, I guess.

• 50:47Speaker 04

  Call me crazy.

• 50:48Speaker 02

  Well, it's just, I don't know. The external validation is a little concerning for me. I didn't have you guys pegged for that.

• 50:55Speaker 04

  Really? You didn't have, maybe, you didn't have me pegged for that?

• 50:58Speaker 02

  For external validation?

• 51:00Speaker 04

  What I have found out is that Kevin Wildes is terrible at pegging people for takes.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  No, I didn't, for external validate, I didn't know, no. Because you're kind of like, I don't know. I thought the art of the take was good enough.

• 51:11Speaker 04

  No.

• 51:11Speaker 02

  Like, can I ask you a question? If you were on a deserted island, but this setup, just you, do you think you would give takes?

• 51:18Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 51:19Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying. But it would just be a mic plugged into nowhere, and you'd be like, alright.

• 51:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, no, so, so both things can be true.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  In itself is fulfilling.

• 51:29Speaker 04

  A thousand, a thousand percent that is true. What is also true is, I have become addicted to the occasional, what do I call it? Endorphin boost, or ego boost, or whatever, of the stranger, you know, saying, like what you do.

• 51:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:52Speaker 04

  Or recognizing me, or whatever, and I have become very, with something that I do not, is not a positive trait, but I recognize it, I've become very impatient on lines. Because like, I still go out to clubs and stuff with my wife, and I used to, oh, there's a line, we'll just wait in it. And I just don't have the capability anymore.

• 52:18Speaker 02

  Can't do it, can't do it.

• 52:19Speaker 04

  Not, I can't.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  That's not, that's not a, a, a public facing thing.

• 52:23Speaker 04

  You think that's just getting older?

• 52:25Speaker 02

  Yes, you know.

• 52:25Speaker 04

  No, so I, maybe, but it's.

• 52:27Speaker 02

  My time's running out. As soon as you get old, try, the older you get, the less interested you are in lines. Like, if you're 88, like, man, I got limited time here.

• 52:36Speaker 04

  That part's true.

• 52:36Speaker 02

  I'm not waiting in a line.

• 52:38Speaker 04

  Yes, but it's also why. I don't think human beings are wired for fame. And I just, I think it is unnatural. And it's, prior to the last 20 years, very, very, very few people were, actually had any fame. And everyone wondered, like, what's happening to society, whatever. That's too wide-ranging. But I truly believe millions of people now having an element of notoriety or fame

• 53:23Speaker 04

  via a social media following has, is the symptom of so much of people losing their minds. People get more anchored to opinions they had because you used to be able to have a bad opinion anonymously and change it. Now it's like, shit. Eight years ago, I posted on Facebook that I believed this. And now people, I'm tied to that, like a bad sports take that people won't let go of. And I think that people have started manicuring and curating their own belief system to what they think their following likes. Because people aren't wired to deal with fame. And so I think one of the other pieces of that is, once you have an element of it, I think most people feel they need it.

• 54:08Speaker 04

  I'm not saying it's healthy, but I think it's more typical than you would think of people who've been in the public eye for a long time needing to keep some relevance.

• 54:19Speaker 02

  Can we end the podcast with a funny story?

• 54:23Speaker 04

  Proceed.

• 54:24Speaker 02

  Belmont Stakes. We're there, Fox has it, so we're there. I've got my kids with me. Did you, oh, you brought, um...

• 54:34Speaker 04

  I brought my daughter and my best friend.

• 54:36Speaker 02

  There's some executives there. And it's just a great time. And then Nick is, there's, I felt like, maybe I'm just telling myself this, but you had some gambling crossover that maybe people recognize you from poker because they're...

• 54:51Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 54:51Speaker 02

  A little bit of poker, a little bit of sports.

• 54:53Pablo Torre?

  Nick's a globally competitive poker player.

• 54:55Speaker 04

  Thanks, Pablo. Accurate.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  Guy comes over to like the little, you're in like little squares. And the guy comes over and says, oh, Nick, love the show. And I'm like, I'm on the show, you know, I'm on the show. It's hard to like consume the show and not like stumble across me, you know? It's like, I love the steakhouse, like I'm the salt shaker, like, like I'm there. I'm not saying I'm the star of the show, but I am there and you usually have to spot me. And then Nick very kindly senses this kind of tension because the guy's talking about the show. And, you know, Wilds, he goes, he goes, I know, you know, Wilds right here. And the guy looks at me and goes, I think he said, do you want a picture with him? And the guy goes, yeah.

• 55:39Speaker 04

  Just kept talking to me, didn't walk away.

• 55:42Speaker 02

  No.

• 55:43Speaker 04

  Kept talking.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  It was just, he's like, yeah. Like, buddy, it's not even on film. It's not even, it's just a free, it's, it's not like when I was growing up, like we only had 12 pieces of Kodak and we don't want to waste one. There you go, that's my level of fame.

• 55:59Pablo Torre?

  Uh, Kevin Wilds, Nick Wright, I mean this when I say this, uh, two of the greatest guests.

• 56:05Speaker 04

  That's not.

• 56:05Pablo Torre?

  In the history of Pablo Torre Finds Out.

• 56:07Speaker 02

  Why is it a trick? Because, remember you said it's like a messy entanglement.

• 56:13Pablo Torre?

  Thanks Pablo.

• 56:13Speaker 04

  Bye, Pablo.

• 56:26Pablo Torre?

  Pablo Torre Finds Out is produced by Walter Avaroma, Ryan Cortez, Sam Daywig, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neely Lohman, Rob McCray, Rachel Miller Howard, Carl Scott, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, Chris Tumanello, and Juliet Warren. Our studio engineering by RG Systems, our sound design by NGW Post, our theme song, as always, is by John Bravo. And we will talk to you next time.

• 57:02Pablo Torre?

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