Being a Mom Isn’t What I Thought It’d Be

On this episode, we hear about: - A mom struggling with her difficult baby - A woman wondering if she will regret cutting off her family - A man unsure of how to share his traumatic family history with his kids Next Steps 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼The Dr. John Delony Show T-Shirts Connect With Our Sponsors · 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. · 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at BON CHARGE. · 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. · 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. · 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. · 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! · 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi. · 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. · 🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Listen to More From Ramsey Network 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  We have a seven month old and we are super blessed.

• 0:09Dr. John Delony?

  You already have some deep, deep mom guilt about what you're about to tell me and... What?

• 0:14Speaker 00

  And she is colicky, is all thin.

• 0:17Dr. John Delony?

  Oh geez.

• 0:18Speaker 00

  I'm having a really hard time seeing those around me enjoying this season.

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  What's going on? What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Show about your marriage, your mental health, your emotional health, joy, laughter, fun, grief, hard, hard stuff, tough seasons, not knowing what to do next. That's what this show is about. My promise is I'll sit with you and we will figure out what to do next. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com/ask. Quick reminder, I get loads, loads and loads and loads and loads of requests via DMs. I don't even read those. I don't check on them. And so I do check my DMs, but if it's, if it's like a personal topic, I don't read it. I just give it and move on. So if you

• 1:14Dr. John Delony?

  want to be on the show, social media is not the place. Call 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com/ask. All right, let's go out to Albany, New York and talk to the one and only Abigail. Hey, Abigail, what's happening?

• 1:29Speaker 00

  Hi, it's me, the one and only.

• 1:31Dr. John Delony?

  The one and only. What's...

• 1:32Speaker 00

  Hi, John.

• 1:32Dr. John Delony?

  How's it going?

• 1:34Speaker 00

  Um, I'm trying.

• 1:36Dr. John Delony?

  Aw, man. Well, thanks for, thanks for coming to hang out. Pull up a seat. What's up?

• 1:41Speaker 00

  Thank you. I have been listening since 2020. It's crazy to think it's been four years. I never would have imagined that I am where I am now.

• 1:50Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, me neither. Trust me, me neither. Yeah. Good grief.

• 1:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, right. Um, oh, I don't even know where to start.

• 1:58Dr. John Delony?

  Just cannonball it. Just cannonball it. Do me, hey, do me a favor. Take a big, big, deep breath.

• 2:06Dr. John Delony?

  And exhale it.

• 2:08Dr. John Delony?

  And I know that you psyched yourself up and you were like, you're not gonna be the one on the show that has to take a deep breath. And so it's okay. It's alright. It's alright.

• 2:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, right.

• 2:15Dr. John Delony?

  That's right. So what's happening?

• 2:18Speaker 00

  Uh, we are in one of those tough seasons right now, my husband and I.

• 2:21Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 2:22Speaker 00

  Um, we have a seven month old and we are super blessed. She is mostly healthy. Um, we didn't have much trouble conceiving. Um,

• 2:32Dr. John Delony?

  Hold on, hold on, hold on, can I stop you right there?

• 2:34Speaker 00

  Everything's great.

• 2:34Dr. John Delony?

  I know, I know it's too soon to stop you, but I'm going to.

• 2:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:37Dr. John Delony?

  I can tell you already have some deep, deep mom guilt about what you're about to tell me. And so you feel like you have to preface it with all of these great things so you can cosmically balance it out before you hit the other side. Whatever you're about to say, you as a new mom and a new mom trying to figure out how to be married as a new mom, all of that mess, you're allowed to be sad, you're allowed to be frustrated, you're allowed to be sick to your stomach, you're allowed to have all those things. Okay. So you don't have to preface it with, I know I'm blessed and I know you had it. There's gonna be no negative, like YouTube comments from me. Okay?

• 3:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:16Dr. John Delony?

  You're good. Whatever you're going through is right. Okay. All right. So your baby is mostly healthy. You are blessed and what?

• 3:25Speaker 00

  And she is, Colicky is all thin.

• 3:27Dr. John Delony?

  Oh geez.

• 3:29Speaker 00

  She is out of her mind and she's, she's got really bad reflux, girth. So, you know, she's on daily medications for that. Um, and she, I think at baseline, she is just a really difficult, high needs baby. So add in physical discomfort and she is a whirlwind. Um, it's been really, really hard.

• 3:52Dr. John Delony?

  Sit with, sit with me on that for a second.

• 3:55Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 3:56Dr. John Delony?

  I was gonna say these things out loud. Stop me if I'm wrong. Okay?

• 4:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:02Dr. John Delony?

  You have a pretty good husband?

• 4:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's great.

• 4:05Dr. John Delony?

  Y'all are gonna have this beautiful family. And it was gonna look like this. Whatever this is, it was gonna feel like this. You're gonna be one of those moms. One of those wives. He was gonna be one of those dads. And you probably have some stupid friend whose baby's the best baby ever and

• 4:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:28Dr. John Delony?

  And then you get this angel who won't shut up, right? Like just screams and screams and screams and screams. Is that about right?

• 4:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, that is exactly right.

• 4:40Dr. John Delony?

  I hate this for you. I hate it. I hate it for that little baby and the discomfort and I hate it for you and I hate it for your husband, hate it for marriage, hate it for that picture you had.

• 4:51Speaker 00

  It's really hard being able to see how different things could look like. If she was more comfortable, if her temperament might have been a little bit different. And I'm having a really hard time seeing those around me enjoying the season.

• 5:06Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 5:07Speaker 00

  When there's nothing enjoyable.

• 5:09Dr. John Delony?

  Screw them. Forget them. Forget them.

• 5:13Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 5:15Dr. John Delony?

  Cause it's a

• 5:20Dr. John Delony?

  It's like getting married and not turning off your hinge account. Right? It's like buying a house and keeping the Zillow listings open.

• 5:31Dr. John Delony?

  Like this is your baby. And choosing to enter into the space of other people's babies and what they have. It's a choice to make yourself a little more miserable in an already miserable season.

• 5:44Speaker 00

  Absolutely. My best friend's maybe three months younger than mine. And they struggled in a lot of different ways. IVF, you know, the whole nine yards. So they had a really tough journey to get here and getting here has been great. Now that he's here and so, you know, we're going back and forth and I'm trying to listen to her daily complaints and support her in the same way she supports me. And I'm having a hard time not being like, man.

• 6:12Speaker 00

  You don't, you're not struggling right now. It's okay.

• 6:15Dr. John Delony?

  Alright, can I say something?

• 6:16Speaker 00

  I love her. I wanna be there for her. Yeah.

• 6:17Dr. John Delony?

  I feel terrible. I keep interrupting you and I feel awful. I just feel like I would, I would ask your permission to hug you if you were here and your husband. And so I'm sorry to keep interrupting. I know that's rude of me.

• 6:30Speaker 00

  No.

• 6:30Dr. John Delony?

  But hear me say directly, Abigail, she is not better at this than you.

• 6:38Dr. John Delony?

  She is not a better mom than you.

• 6:41Dr. John Delony?

  She is not better at taking care of her baby than you.

• 6:47Dr. John Delony?

  She's not.

• 6:50Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 6:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:53Dr. John Delony?

  It just sucks. By the way, anger is good. Being mad is good. Anger is just simply points you towards something that you wanted it a certain way and it's not, or it was supposed to be a certain way and it's not. Anger's good.

• 7:06Dr. John Delony?

  You're not a bad mom because you get angry that this kid won't stop screaming. And that this is supposed to be some beautiful moment and the kid is ruining it. The kid's gonna ruin lots of other moments, so it is what it is, right?

• 7:21Dr. John Delony?

  Let me ask you this. Is your rage against the baby? Is your upsetness, or is it against the way you were so desperate to have it?

• 7:29Speaker 00

  It has been, and when I fight really hard to not focus that energy on the baby, it's on the world.

• 7:38Dr. John Delony?

  Well, okay, so that was my next question. Is the rage against the baby? Or is the anger against feeling powerless?

• 7:47Speaker 00

  Both.

• 7:47Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Most of the time, parents, when they first are faced with the fact that someone's gonna break their kid's heart, that someone's gonna get in a wreck and hit their kid, that their kid's gonna fail a class, that there's that powerless feeling, and parents react all different ways. Anxious, depressed, overbearing, hide, they run, they get mad at the world. Your response is your response, okay? I just want you to know, I'm trying to say, I want you to know you're not broken, and it's not the baby's fault, it just is.

• 8:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:15Dr. John Delony?

  And it sucks.

• 8:21Dr. John Delony?

  So can I ask you a hard John Deloney question?

• 8:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course.

• 8:25Dr. John Delony?

  Seven months in. Now this has turned and it's messing with your marriage. Now it's turned, it's messing with your friendships. Now it's turned and it's messing with that incredible mom and woman that you see in the mirror every day. Is the anger and rage and frustration, is it helping?

• 8:44Speaker 00

  No, it's helping nothing.

• 8:47Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  So I'm trying to let go and be in the moment more, but it's like our tolerance for this, as she gets better, somehow gets lower.

• 8:54Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's like, because you you got that from some awesome mom magazine. Just be present in the moment. No, kid won't stop screaming, right? Like, it's easy to be like, you know what, you should meditate more and there's, I, fine. Listen, you're not crazy. This is maddening, it's heartbreaking, it's not what you pictured. And it's not forever. And I would be really hesitant to cast character judgments on your kid. Like, they have X or Y kind of temperament? Maybe.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:31Dr. John Delony?

  But maybe your baby's just allergic to the way your body processes milk or so, who knows, right?

• 9:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:37Dr. John Delony?

  And so, um, whatever is going on is going on. I, I did, I have heard of some success with GI doctors. Yeah, I'm sure y'all have gone down every road you can go down.

• 9:44Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. We had a GI appointment yesterday.

• 9:47Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 9:48Speaker 00

  Our formula is $800 a month. We're doing everything.

• 9:50Dr. John Delony?

  Good God almighty. Okay. And maybe it's, maybe kid needs $30 formula from Walmart. Oh, man, I'm gonna get some, I'm gonna get some hate on that one. What, what, like, here's the thing. Not forever. Right?

• 10:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:04Dr. John Delony?

  So, um, anytime I sit down with a family and they're dealing with something like this, like, our baby's really hard, our baby's sick, um, I'm, or if I sit down with a family who's got a child who's got a terminal something or other, I always tell them, less, like, how do we handle the kid? What conversations we need to have? What things we need to be doing in the house? We can get to all of those, but I always tell them, here's number one. The stats say...

• 10:34Dr. John Delony?

  That this is gonna mess up your marriage. And so let's actually start there. Okay, so I would love for y'all to, and this is an obnoxious exercise. It's silly and y'all are probably gonna be rolling your eyes and laughing. Right? You and your poor husband, but I want y'all to do this. This is a, like an exercise and we're just gonna do it to do it. Cause some moron podcast, oh, I'm not saying that anymore. Some podcaster said like, um, to do this, right? So I want you all to sit on the same side of your kitchen table together. And I want you to get a note card and I want you to write colic on it. And I want you to set it in the middle of the table, arms length away from you.

• 11:17Dr. John Delony?

  And I want you both to look at colic for 30 seconds while you're holding hands and say no words. Just time it, just stare at that word.

• 11:28Dr. John Delony?

  That is the bad guy here.

• 11:31Dr. John Delony?

  Not your husband who's getting frustrated at you getting frustrated. Not your husband who is just kinda fed up and he's gotta go to work and he's gotta sleep too. And why don't you, I, I, one of us has to, all that stuff that happens. And then why can't you just be happy and he's not grieving enough and you're grieving too much or vice versa? Y'all are on the same team. Okay, that's a simple, silly 30 second exercise, but I want it to be, and then I want y'all to make a plan. How do we stay together? How do we get tighter at the end of this thing, not further apart from each other? What does that mean? You're gonna have to say, here's what I need, here's what I want. Do we have signals? Do we have plans? Do you already have that or y'all just fly by night?

• 12:11Speaker 00

  Um, this, this took a toll on us really, really quickly.

• 12:15Dr. John Delony?

  Yep.

• 12:15Speaker 00

  Um, we were really good at passing back and forth and trying to stay recharged. But she's so amped up that we both can't stay charged enough.

• 12:22Dr. John Delony?

  Of course, there you go.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  Um, which really just was detrimental to us as a unit. Um, and in the past couple of months, we've, we've really focused on us and things are kinda better than ever between us.

• 12:33Dr. John Delony?

  Excellent. Um, oh, so good, so good.

• 12:35Speaker 00

  And we're just trying to fight to stay there.

• 12:37Dr. John Delony?

  Perfect. Okay, do you, do you have friends that you call?

• 12:41Speaker 00

  No.

• 12:42Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. You are not a bad mom by calling somebody and saying, "I'm at the end of my rope. I need you to come hold my baby for 30 minutes while I go for a walk."

• 12:51Speaker 00

  We don't have anyone.

• 12:53Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, I want you just to get on the phone and figure it out.

• 12:56Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 12:57Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 12:59Dr. John Delony?

  Call a local teenager, call a kid, call a... and again, you're not running away. And I say, "Call a kid." Like, my son, when he was 10 or 11, he would go to somebody's house when they were frustrated, and/or they were cleaning, they were doing something, and... plus, play Legos. Whatever the thing is, right? And I know people, "He's a screamin'..." whatever. But you know what I'm saying? Um, if you have to hire somebody, hire somebody.

• 13:22Speaker 00

  We've been so scared to.

• 13:24Dr. John Delony?

  I know.

• 13:26Speaker 00

  Because... I'm sorry?

• 13:28Dr. John Delony?

  Go for it, you're okay, you're okay.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  Super dark, and a lot of people don't admit that, but when you struggle to not be angry at your own baby...

• 13:36Dr. John Delony?

  Yep.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  When you struggle with intrusive thoughts about your baby...

• 13:39Dr. John Delony?

  Yep.

• 13:40Speaker 00

  You... I mean, if I struggle with it, how would a stranger deal with it?

• 13:45Dr. John Delony?

  The stranger knows exactly what they're walking into. And here's what the stranger's doing. They get 30 minutes or an hour to help out a friend.

• 13:51Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 13:52Dr. John Delony?

  They get... and not, "Oh, my gosh, this mom is so bad." That's what you think's gonna happen.

• 13:58Dr. John Delony?

  They're gonna come in and go, "Oh, my gosh, this woman's amazing, and she does this 24/7, 365." And all you can see is the thoughts that you have, the ones that scare you, and you project those into everybody else's head. It's not true.

• 14:14Dr. John Delony?

  It would be such a... and here's the thing, here's what the baby gets: a mom with a centimeter more capacity.

• 14:22Dr. John Delony?

  That's a gift.

• 14:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:25Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? So I want you to set the judgment of yourself down, I want you to set the judgment of your family unit down, I want you to set any of those stories that you're making up, set them down, and reach out for somebody.

• 14:38Dr. John Delony?

  Do you have a neighbor that will come by and hold your kid? Do you have anything?

• 14:41Speaker 00

  I have someone in mind. I've got a client who's been begging to watch her, who's amazing.

• 14:45Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Say, "I need 30 minutes, I need two hours. And by the way, this kid is gonna scream the whole time, and I'm gonna double your rate." Right? Like, whatever.

• 14:55Dr. John Delony?

  You are less being a babysitter, and you are more being a mommy savior. Right? Like...

• 15:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:01Dr. John Delony?

  See what I'm saying? And, okay, here's number, uh, whatever, I'm just making these things up. Um, instead of comparing to friends, I want you to reach out to them.

• 15:11Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so I want you to have an open conversation with your friend. Hey, we're really struggling. Um, your baby's amazing, it's awesome. Um, there may be days that I call you for 30 minutes or for an hour. It would be a real gift, and I'll return the favor. And maybe your friend will get a dose of, oh, right? And I also want to promise you this, as much as they're painting whatever picture they're painting, it's not true. It's not. It's not what you're going through, but it's not perfect.

• 15:41Speaker 00

  Right.

• 15:42Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? I want you to begin to write down your thoughts, and I know you're terrified to put them on paper. But I want you to get them out of your head. Because they're killing you.

• 15:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:55Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? Do you have somebody you can talk to?

• 15:59Speaker 00

  Um, regarding therapy at the moment, no.

• 16:02Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. That's a must.

• 16:04Speaker 00

  I tried when she was born and got a referral, um, and was told 12 weeks, and I'm still waiting.

• 16:10Dr. John Delony?

  Find somebody else, okay?

• 16:12Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah, I need to make the time.

• 16:16Dr. John Delony?

  Make the time.

• 16:18Dr. John Delony?

  But saying these things out loud and having somebody not flinch, like, I'm not flinching, hope you can hear my voice, I'm not flinching.

• 16:26Dr. John Delony?

  You got thoughts just shooting off through your mind, okay? But write them down, get them out of your body. You're not gonna keep them, you'll shred them, you'll burn them, whatever you want to do with them. It's probably not a journal you want your friends to find, you definitely don't want your kid to find it later, right?

• 16:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:38Dr. John Delony?

  But I want you to get them out of your head. Because then here's the deal, when you get them out of your head, you can look at them, and you can do the one, one of my favorite exercises in the world is to demand, is this true?

• 16:49Dr. John Delony?

  Is this true? I wish I'd never had this baby. Is that true? No.

• 16:56Dr. John Delony?

  My husband sucks, he's the worst, he doesn't love me or support me. Is that true? No. Right? You get them out of your head, and you can begin to challenge them.

• 17:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:03Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? Um, you know this isn't forever, and this is one other thing, I, I read about this, don't know if it's true or not. Um, again, this is, there's a few annoying, more annoying things than having some man tell some new mom what she could be doing, right? That's the worst, it's the worst! Um, but here we go. I have heard that maybe a possible, potential secret, particularly if dietary things aren't changing anything, is that some kids like noise.

• 17:36Dr. John Delony?

  And so, this sounds counterintuitive, but maybe taking a crying baby out on the subway, taking a quiet baby out into, uh, I mean, a yelling baby out into where it's loud,

• 17:46Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 17:47Dr. John Delony?

  Sometimes quiets them out.

• 17:49Speaker 00

  We live on a busy street and we go to the end of the driveway and watch the cars.

• 17:52Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, there you go. So, maybe, maybe that's it. Maybe, sitting, sitting in the room with the washer and dryer going, and the vacuum going, and you have headphones on, maybe that's it.

• 18:02Speaker 00

  I'm so tired of vacuuming.

• 18:03Dr. John Delony?

  I know. I'm not talking about vacuuming, I'm just saying, like, uh,

• 18:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:09Dr. John Delony?

  Turn it on, but, just to create some noise, but...

• 18:11Speaker 00

  That's one of my tools, yeah.

• 18:14Dr. John Delony?

  I think we're past tools at this point. You and your husband are smart, and y'all have got Google, y'all can figure those things out. The bigger deal is this: you're not crazy. And you cannot do all this by yourself.

• 18:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:28Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? And it's okay to be angry, and it's okay to be frustrated. I don't want you to assume, you said something earlier, like, me and my husband have come closer together and we're just trying to hang on to it. Let's be really intentional about hanging on. Let's meet once a week. "One out of ten, how are you?" "I'm a four." "I'm a seven." "No way." "Cool, you just got crying baby duty, early on this week, right?" And then we'll work together. But I want you all to be really, really intentional about it. Is that fair?

• 18:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's, like, the only thing that helps.

• 18:56Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. And we're gonna start bringing some friends into this.

• 19:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:01Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 19:04Dr. John Delony?

  Do you trust me that you're good at this?

• 19:07Speaker 00

  I think if we had a calm baby, we'd be crushing it right now.

• 19:12Dr. John Delony?

  No, if you had a calm baby, if you had a, if you had a calm baby, you would be under an illusion that y'all are amazing. When I had my son, I remember, I don't know if I've told this on the show, uh, my wife was a professor, I was a professor, we had my son, and after about six months, or, no, it was about a year, I remember telling my wife over dinner, "We're amazing at this. Every other parent is an idiot. Why don't we quit our jobs and go on the road and just teach people how to be parents?" And then my daughter came.

• 19:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:41Dr. John Delony?

  And then I realized, "I don't know anything. I know no things, right? I don't know anything on the planet, right?" So, the, the illusion is, the challenge is, you're, you're imagining, "Man, if it was just this, then everything would be better." It wouldn't be. I promise you, it'd be different. Now, you're in hell. You're in misery, right? And we want this baby to quit screaming? Yes, no question about it.

• 20:02Dr. John Delony?

  But fantasizing about what it could be is a waste of energy. It's a waste of time and it's not true because you don't know. You don't know.

• 20:11Dr. John Delony?

  But you know you love your husband, you know you love his baby and you know your baby won't stop screaming and we know this isn't forever.

• 20:20Dr. John Delony?

  Get those thoughts out of your head, get yourself connected, get some other people, invite them in. Nobody's going to judge you as harshly as you judge yourself.

• 20:29Dr. John Delony?

  I'm proud of you for reaching out and I'm grateful for you. We need more moms who care about their kids and more moms who want to do this right. It's been a blessing. Stand on the line, I'm going to send you Building a Non-Anxious Life as my gift to you and your husband can use it. It has nothing to do with their colicky baby, but I feel like I want to give you something and I can't give you a hug, so. Thanks for being on the show. We'll be right back.

• 20:52Dr. John Delony?

  Hey everybody, listen to this. My friends at Helix, the makers of the best mattresses in the universe that every single member of my family sleeps on, they are in their final hours of their new year sale right now. Now, listen, I get it. You're trying to hang on to those resolutions and new habits and systems for this new year, but you still aren't getting the good sleep that you desperately need to build a great life on. I've struggled with getting good sleep my entire life and sleeping on my Helix mattress has transformed my rest. And now that I've created a great sleep routine and I've got my Helix mattress, I'm consistently getting deep, refreshing sleep. Now, listen, this is important. Everyone has their own unique sleep positions. Everyone's body is different.

• 21:34Dr. John Delony?

  So Helix has created different mattress models designed for everyone, for side sleepers, stomach sleepers, back sleepers, all of you. And if your spine needs some extra support and comfort, they have mattresses just for you too. Helix offers a 100 night trial and all Helix mattresses come with either a 10 or 15 year warranty. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to get online and take the Helix Sleep Quiz. I did it too, and you will find the perfect mattress for your sleep preference in like two minutes or less. Here's the kicker. The Helix New Year's Sale is in its final hours. Get 20% off site wide plus two dream pillows with a mattress purchase. Go to helixsleep.com/deloney today. Go right now.

• 22:16Dr. John Delony?

  That's Helix, H E L I X, helixsleep.com/deloney. With Helix, better sleep starts right now.

• 22:26Dr. John Delony?

  It's the new year. It's my favorite time of the year. Everyone starts thinking of new routines, building better habits, stopping things that aren't that helpful. And overall, people are thinking about building a better life. And we all know that most new "go get 'em" goals are a waste of time because we don't put in the systems to make them sustainable. So how about this year? Let's focus on fewer, more sustainable goals and better systems. And let's start by curating a system and a goal that's good for your heart and your soul. Let's start this year with our spiritual lives. And let's start off 2025 by focusing on prayer and meditation. To do this, I recommend Hallow, the number one prayer app in the world. I use it and I love it.

• 23:09Dr. John Delony?

  Hallow offers over 10,000 guided prayers and meditations to help you grow closer to God, answer hard questions, and find peace. Hallow has some amazing daily prayers that are perfect to start your day with. And one of Hallow's most popular features is the daily reflection with Jonathan Rumi from the show The Chosen. You can also check out the daily scripture readings, the nightly sleep prayers. And if you don't have much time, there's even something called the daily minute. Hallow makes it easy to build a system and a routine by making a schedule, adding reminders, and even fostering a community for accountability. Start the year off right by putting your relationship with God first with the help of Hallow. Right now, they're offering three months for free

• 23:53Dr. John Delony?

  when you join at hallow.com/deloney. That's hallow.com/deloney for three months of Hallow to get your year started absolutely free. Go check them out. All right, we're back. Let's go to Portland and talk to Sarah with an H. What's up, Sarah?

• 24:11Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 24:11Dr. John Delony?

  How we doing?

• 24:12Speaker 00

  We're great. We're good.

• 24:14Dr. John Delony?

  Excellent. What's up?

• 24:16Speaker 02

  Um, jumping right into it. Um, uh, my question, um, I pretty much cut off all contact with my family, including my mom, dad, and my, my two siblings.

• 24:27Dr. John Delony?

  Yikes, what happened?

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Oh, um, just enough was enough emotionally, um, just tired of the hurt and disappointment. Um, and then made that decision about eight years ago as I was going through therapy and, um, but, but my question is, my parents are now seventy-five and I know their time is coming soon. Um, I dream often that if I didn't reach out and try to heal our relationship, I'm gonna regret it and I still can't pick up the phone every day. And it's not, it's not unforgiveness to what's happened. It's more that my life is so much more peaceful without any of them in it.

• 25:13Speaker 02

  So I struggle with this. It's daily and it's consuming. It's affected my immediate family because of my, um, barriers and fears and so, but I just can't, the thought of talking to them just makes me physically nauseous and just, I just can't do it.

• 25:37Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, it's, you're kind, you, you sound trapped. Like you can't reach out and call them. You've tried, you've tried, you've stared at that phone and you're starting to, that gnawing shadow sense that you can't not call them.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  Right, because I don't want it to hold, because regardless of me not having contact with them, they still have the power over me, even in this situation.

• 25:59Dr. John Delony?

  Well, and that's my question to you is, you're not fully well yet.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  Oh, no.

• 26:03Dr. John Delony?

  Because they still haunt you.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 26:06Dr. John Delony?

  So tell me what you're hanging on to.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't, I mean, just the, um, just so hurt and betrayed and neglected and just, um, I'm 53, I should be over this by now.

• 26:28Dr. John Delony?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  And I'm here for therapy, but...

• 26:30Dr. John Delony?

  Here's what it is. Can I tell you what I think it is? I may be wrong. I think that inside that little girl's still trying to figure out what she did wrong. And the fantasy you have is that one day, the thing that you did, you'll finally figure it out and you can finally fix it. So your mom will say, "Welcome home, honey." And your dad will say, "There's my girl."

• 26:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:56Dr. John Delony?

  And so, the scary, hard part is, you didn't do anything wrong. You were a kid. And you're right, you're 53 and you're still trying to figure out, "What did you do?"

• 27:07Speaker 02

  The point, the thing is, is that they both come to me with, "Oh, I'll do whatever it takes to fix this. Let's get a mentor." My dad, my mom is just, she's always, it's been abandonment my whole life. So it's, I mean, it's a pattern. But the more he tries to fix it, it's kind of like, well, now you see what it feels like, you know? I mean, my whole life...

• 27:36Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, but what does that get you?

• 27:38Speaker 02

  It doesn't. And I know that's the pattern.

• 27:40Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, it's a cancer.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  And that is why I look at you.

• 27:42Dr. John Delony?

  Well, in a strange way, you're becoming him.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:45Dr. John Delony?

  In an effort to teach him what he did to you, you're just doing what he did to you. Like, the thing perpetuates.

• 27:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 27:53Dr. John Delony?

  All right.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  And I can see it. And that's why I reached out.

• 27:56Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Because I'm physically affected by it now.

• 27:59Dr. John Delony?

  Of course. Of course.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  So...

• 28:02Dr. John Delony?

  So, here's, here's my, I'm just gonna give you, you and I would have to sit down for a long time and peel back what they did, what they said, where did you come up with this decision? But let me, here's my guiding rules, okay, for these kind of, these kind of issues. I always want to, my personal bent is always seeking reconciliation.

• 28:26Dr. John Delony?

  I believe in that. And I've worked with enough people who have experienced evil trauma to know it's not always possible. And so it's both.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Right.

• 28:38Dr. John Delony?

  But I know this, if the person who hurt you still has control over you, that reconciliation won't happen. You just fall back into the same pattern. If you have set the brick down that your dad gave you when you were young, and I don't know what it is, abandonment, abuse, emotional abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse, who knows what it is?

• 29:00Speaker 02

  Oh, yes.

• 29:01Dr. John Delony?

  But if you set it down, you, and forgiveness, remember this, forgiveness is not, and I go around and around with colleagues who say like, not everyone is worth forgiving and my clients don't have to forgive everybody. I would say, okay, but forgiveness is for you. Forgiveness is you saying, I'm not carrying your crap anymore. I'm setting it down. I am free. It's the great C.S. Lewis talks about hell is locked from the inside.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 29:29Dr. John Delony?

  Right? So I am opening the prison and I'm heading out. And then I can greet you at the gate because I'm free to come and go. And so you may have heard in some of my earlier episodes, I used to tell people, take a, go to Lowe's and buy a cinder block, put a couple of pieces of duct tape on that cinder block and get a Sharpie and write the things that happened to you by this man. Write them on that duct tape, hold that cinder block, carry it around your backyard for a while, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, three minutes, as long as you can hold it until your arms start burning and your hands get tired. And then take it somewhere in the very backyard and throw it away. Set it down, but let it be a symbolic move.

• 30:13Dr. John Delony?

  I am done carrying this. I've been to therapy, I've got my own family, I've got my own kids, I am not carrying you anymore. And then tear the tape off, throw it away. And if you can do that.

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:31Dr. John Delony?

  But you're going to feel powerless because right now you feel the pseudo weird, I'm in power because now you're following me around, now you're chasing me, now I'm abandoning you, ha ha. And you realize, oh no, I'm just, I just took the cancer baton and I'm spreading it into my family still.

• 30:45Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:46Dr. John Delony?

  Right? I'm just done. I'm done.

• 30:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:53Dr. John Delony?

  So.

• 30:54Speaker 02

  It wasn't them directly, it was what they allowed to happen.

• 30:57Dr. John Delony?

  E- either way, either way.

• 30:58Speaker 02

  It doesn't, yeah, I mean, and I just, uh...

• 31:03Dr. John Delony?

  You're fifty, you're fifty-three, you're fifty-three. How long are you gonna carry it?

• 31:07Speaker 02

  I know.

• 31:07Dr. John Delony?

  How long are you gonna carry it?

• 31:09Speaker 02

  I know, I know.

• 31:09Dr. John Delony?

  How long are you gonna carry it?

• 31:12Speaker 02

  I don't wanna carry it anymore.

• 31:13Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  I mean...

• 31:14Dr. John Delony?

  And maybe that's the question that will never be answered. Why didn't you all protect me?

• 31:19Speaker 02

  It, yeah.

• 31:20Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Why didn't you protect me?

• 31:25Speaker 02

  That's, that's it, that's it.

• 31:27Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Do you need their protection anymore?

• 31:32Speaker 02

  No.

• 31:32Dr. John Delony?

  You're free.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  No.

• 31:33Dr. John Delony?

  You're free.

• 31:34Speaker 02

  No, I, yeah.

• 31:35Dr. John Delony?

  You're free. Hell, the gates of hell, the gates of your hell are locked on the inside. Open the gates.

• 31:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:43Dr. John Delony?

  Are you married?

• 31:45Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 31:46Dr. John Delony?

  Do you like that guy?

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Oh, my God.

• 31:48Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 31:49Speaker 02

  He's like, amazing.

• 31:50Dr. John Delony?

  You have, you have kids?

• 31:52Speaker 02

  Yep, we have four.

• 31:53Dr. John Delony?

  Are they amazing?

• 31:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:55Dr. John Delony?

  Squirrely and messy and loud and all the chaos and all the fun?

• 31:59Speaker 02

  They're two older and twins that are just turning twenties, but yes, they...

• 32:04Dr. John Delony?

  Perfect.

• 32:05Speaker 02

  They're, they're, they're why I'm here every day.

• 32:09Dr. John Delony?

  Do you have, do you have friends? You have a gang?

• 32:11Speaker 02

  Um, no, just relocated. So, um, I have one, I have one that...

• 32:16Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, you're on the path, you're on the path.

• 32:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:19Dr. John Delony?

  So you don't, you don't need to look for your dad for protection anymore? He had a shot and he botched it, okay.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  So, but how about this communication? Like, it's the little things, like, I haven't talked to my mom since her birthday. I mean, so...

• 32:33Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, but if you, but listen, if you talk to your mom for... Yeah, it's awkward. But it's awkward because you allow it to be.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  But is it normal to just talk to someone twice a year or three times a year?

• 32:46Dr. John Delony?

  If that's the safest thing you've established, then yeah. If that's all they can handle, I have a personal rule. My personal rule is I don't talk to people unless they can hear me. Period. So when someone bombs my DMs and is like, "You don't do this," or "You don't have..." I can't respond to you because you're not going to hear me. When one of my psychology professor colleagues calls me on the phone and is like, "Hey, man, I caught your show. You answered it this way. Let's talk about that." That's awesome. Now we're back and forth.

• 33:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:16Dr. John Delony?

  Right? My mom is amazing, and she's not perfect. My sister, my brother, my dad, they're all amazing, and they're not perfect. I'm not either. And so if my dad says something, I can call my dad and say, "Hey, don't say that again." And he'll go, "Oh, oh, okay, okay."

• 33:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:35Dr. John Delony?

  Or I could tell my brother, "Hey, that joke wasn't funny. Too far." He's like, "I know. Sorry, sorry, sorry." And trust me, they tell me all those things too. Right?

• 33:43Speaker 02

  Right.

• 33:44Dr. John Delony?

  Because I can hear them and they can hear me. And if your mom can only handle two or three cards a year, then that's what she can handle.

• 33:54Speaker 02

  That makes sense. Oh, that makes a lot of sense.

• 33:56Dr. John Delony?

  But you're sending these cards expecting something more than that card can give.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Right. I'm always thinking this is the time and they're going to say, "Oh, my gosh."

• 34:07Dr. John Delony?

  That call, listen, that call will never come.

• 34:10Speaker 02

  It's never... And that's why the communication cut, because I just feel tired of being thinking this was the time and it's never happened.

• 34:19Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, but listen to what you just said. It's very important, okay? I think we have a culture that cuts ties with family too quickly. Not saying yours. I mean, you're... I trust that you went through hell and that you did what was right, especially in consultation with a professional. I get that. But it was your expectations of what they needed to do and how they needed to do it that they couldn't meet. You cast them as actors in your movie, and you got mad at them that they didn't know the lines, and they didn't even know they were in a film.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, that's so true.

• 34:47Dr. John Delony?

  Okay? I have a...

• 34:49Speaker 02

  Ooh, that was good.

• 34:50Dr. John Delony?

  I have a dad who's in his mid-70s or early 70s. He's a lifetime Texas police officer.

• 34:59Dr. John Delony?

  I would love for him to grab my face and look me in the eyes and say, "I love you and I'm so proud that you are my son. I did a pretty good job with you and you're an amazing man." That tool isn't in his toolkit. And by the way, if he did that, it would freak me out.

• 35:18Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 35:19Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:20Dr. John Delony?

  But my dad did write me an amazing card this year for Christmas.

• 35:25Dr. John Delony?

  That I will probably at some point get part of it tattooed on my body.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  Right.

• 35:30Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And it said-

• 35:31Speaker 02

  Because that was his capacity, not what you-

• 35:34Dr. John Delony?

  That's the tools he's got.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:38Dr. John Delony?

  And how, who am I to get mad at the carpenter?

• 35:43Dr. John Delony?

  For having to use a handsaw instead of having, like, he didn't have the tool in the kit, that's great.

• 35:47Speaker 02

  Right.

• 35:48Dr. John Delony?

  It's my, it's my fantasy that I cast him in. It's not fair to him. He's an amazing man.

• 35:56Dr. John Delony?

  And by the way, my Field of Dreams moment, right, isn't real either.

• 36:05Speaker 02

  Right. True.

• 36:06Dr. John Delony?

  Because if your dad called you and he's like, "Hey, I'm coming to visit, I need to see you." And you got all tense, you're like, "We will not meet at my house, we will meet..." Okay. And he sat across the table from you in a diner and he said, "Listen to you, I screwed up. I should have been there to protect you, I wasn't there.

• 36:22Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm sorry. I failed you as your dad when you were young.

• 36:28Dr. John Delony?

  And then I've been chasing your approval ever since and I know I put too much on you and I'm so sorry. Will you forgive me?"

• 36:35Dr. John Delony?

  And you said yes.

• 36:38Dr. John Delony?

  And y'all hugged. There's no music that will swell.

• 36:44Dr. John Delony?

  There's no flashback or montage scene that kicks in.

• 36:49Dr. John Delony?

  You'll get in your car and you might sob and you might feel some peace and relief.

• 36:55Dr. John Delony?

  And then you're gonna go home and your husband's gonna be walking out of the bathroom with his iPad and the smell's gonna be so bad and it's gonna knock your head, your life will go back to your life.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:04Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 37:08Dr. John Delony?

  And so,

• 37:11Dr. John Delony?

  grieve like mad. Write him a letter that you'll never send him. Don't ever send it, but write it. Get it out of your body. Free yourself.

• 37:22Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 37:23Dr. John Delony?

  And then,

• 37:24Speaker 02

  I have written a letter, but I did send it, which was probably.

• 37:28Dr. John Delony?

  Probably would have done. Well, here's the thing. It didn't feel like you thought it was going to, did it? You thought, I'm gonna bomb him. I'm gonna tell him what's up. And you feel like crap. And that's one of the modern revenge lies. Doesn't feel good.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  No, no. And it's, uh, and holding on to my copies and my, all my notes on the whole, everything over all the years. It wasn't the acts or the things. It was the emotional instability.

• 37:54Dr. John Delony?

  Right.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  Where, um,

• 37:56Dr. John Delony?

  But you're, but you said it. You're, you literally said it. You're holding on to it. What's that giving you?

• 38:01Speaker 02

  Nothing. No, no, you made it very clear. I think the movie scenario is the best thing I think I've heard in even in all my years of therapy. That is, um, my expectation is my expectation. I can't expect someone else to live up to that. Especially when they don't even know what my expectation is.

• 38:21Dr. John Delony?

  There you go. And so, and can we, can I be honest? I bet he's gotten better. And your expectation moves. Because your expectation is trying to inspire a feeling.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  Outweigh his.

• 38:36Dr. John Delony?

  Well, no, you think it's gonna feel a certain way and it never does. And so you just move it. Okay. You don't need to just apologize. You need to go on your hands and knees. Okay. You don't need to go on your hands and knees. You need to re-roof my house. Uh, no, you need to send me money. Cause you should have, like, it, it just keeps moving. Because you'll never get that feeling. It's like the conversations I've had with people who are trapped in heroin. They tell me the first time they knew, oh, I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life. And you're chasing ghosts. It never feel the highs never that good. That's the same with feelings. You're just chasing it, chasing it, chasing it. Quit, quit.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  How do you, how do you move forward or how do you show forgiveness? I know forgiveness is internal, but without feeling like they won. Like, I feel like if I let my guard down, then he won.

• 39:24Dr. John Delony?

  And that means you're still playing a game.

• 39:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 39:27Dr. John Delony?

  Quit playing the game. You, listen, you won. You have an amazing marriage. You've got four amazing kids. You just moved to a new town. You already have one friend. That's more than I've got. Kelly calls herself my friend, but let's be honest. No, she's like, she's shaking her head. No, she's not. Bob's my friend. Hola, mi amigo. Right? Like, you won. And so like, how do I feel like they, if I do this, if I forgive them, if I send a Mother's Day card, they win? No, they didn't because you're not even playing. I'm out of the game. And I want everybody to hear me. Somebody abused you, somebody hurt you, somebody continues to haunt you, they've got some, they continue to try to use you.

• 40:11Dr. John Delony?

  No. That relationship's over and it's okay to grieve it. It's okay to wish that you had grandparents for your grandkids. They're, they're not there. Didn't happen. I'm going to grieve it. And then I'm going to stop carrying it around because choosing to carry it anymore is choosing to be miserable in the limited time I got left. I wonder what it would be like, Sarah, if you just burned all those notes and letters you saved for all those years. I'm not recommending you do that, but I wonder what it would be like. Because I bet a part of your identity over the years has become this really tough person who cuts people off and I hold on to it.

• 40:57Dr. John Delony?

  How's that working? That's the great Dr. Phil asked, how's that working for you?

• 41:04Dr. John Delony?

  What if we let go? What if we opened our hands? What if we unlocked our own hell from the inside and just said, "I'll see y'all later. I'm gonna go be with my amazing family.

• 41:15Dr. John Delony?

  I'm free. Happy Father's Day, Dad. I wish you the absolute best. Happy Mother's Day, Mom. I hope today is a good day for you. And you can genuinely wish that for them. That doesn't mean I have a relationship with you. That doesn't mean I'm gonna sit down and have a meal with you. But I do hope that your day is good. That, my friend,

• 41:36Dr. John Delony?

  that's freedom.

• 41:38Dr. John Delony?

  We'll be right back.

• 41:41Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, I want to tell you about my friends at Cozy Earth. Over the last few weeks, my sleep has been off. I've been spending more time on screens than I like, and I'm traveling all over the place. I'm just feeling disconnected. Here's the deal. Starting this year off right starts with good sleep. Period. Full stop. And that means creating a space that helps you rest. For me and my family, that's where Cozy Earth comes in. Their bedding is soft, breathable, and it keeps us cool and comfortable all night. It helps us create that perfect sleep sanctuary that we all need to be restored. My wife sleeps in the Cozy Earth's long-sleeved bamboo pajama set every night. She loves them.

• 42:23Dr. John Delony?

  And my whole family is in love with the Cozy Earth sheets and bedding and the bath linens that have the best towels in the world. And just this morning, my son came downstairs wearing my Cozy Earth cityscape hoodie that he stole from my closet. Listen, let's do a restart this year. Let's put down the phone, let's set a regular bedtime and get comfortable when possible. Let's everybody keep their own clothes. And let's invest in our sleep all with Cozy Earth. When we sleep and rest well, we show up better for ourselves and our families. And right now, Cozy Earth is offering a 40% off discount code exclusively for my listeners. Visit cozylearth.com/deloney and use code DELONY for 40% off.

• 43:07Dr. John Delony?

  That's cozy, C-O-Z-Y. Cozylearth.com/deloney and use code DELONY at checkout.

• 43:16Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go out to Princeton, Minnesota and talk to Joe. Hey Joe, what's up, man?

• 43:22Speaker 03

  Hey, how's it going, John?

• 43:23Dr. John Delony?

  I'm good, brother. Life going okay for you?

• 43:25Speaker 03

  Good. Yeah, it's pretty good. I can't complain too much.

• 43:29Dr. John Delony?

  Excellent. Hey, I said Princeton, Minnesota.

• 43:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 43:34Dr. John Delony?

  Is that right?

• 43:34Speaker 03

  That's correct. Yeah, it is correct, yes.

• 43:36Dr. John Delony?

  Look at that. I'm getting, I'm learning my geography. I thought, Taylor, I thought you put the wrong initials up there and I thought I was gonna lose my mind. Okay, Joe, we're on the same page, brother. What's up?

• 43:45Speaker 03

  Uh, I was calling because, uh, back in 2018, my father took his own life.

• 43:52Dr. John Delony?

  Ah.

• 43:53Speaker 03

  And my kids were real young and, uh, now that they're getting older, I try to keep him involved, you know, keep him in their lives so they know who he is. And, uh, my daughter now is asking how he died and, excuse me, I don't know, I don't know how to tell her.

• 44:15Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 44:18Dr. John Delony?

  What was his name?

• 44:20Speaker 03

  Andy.

• 44:20Dr. John Delony?

  Andy. Tell me about him.

• 44:23Speaker 03

  Um,

• 44:26Speaker 03

  sorry.

• 44:27Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, you're okay. Take your time, brother.

• 44:31Speaker 03

  Oh, he was great.

• 44:33Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah?

• 44:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:37Speaker 03

  He was a good dad. Um, taught me everything I know.

• 44:44Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  I thought this would be easier.

• 44:49Dr. John Delony?

  No, it's tough, man, especially when you lose someone that we love.

• 44:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, but, um, he was, it came very unexpected.

• 44:59Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 45:00Speaker 03

  I was not ready for it. I mean, not that anybody ever is, I guess, but.

• 45:04Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 45:05Speaker 03

  Um, I just.

• 45:07Dr. John Delony?

  Out of the blue?

• 45:07Speaker 03

  I don't, yeah, absolutely. Yep. He was at my house the day before and I didn't even know it was coming.

• 45:15Dr. John Delony?

  How many days have you replayed that last day y'all were together?

• 45:19Speaker 03

  Hundreds.

• 45:19Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 45:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:22Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, before we go any further.

• 45:23Speaker 03

  Think about him every day.

• 45:24Dr. John Delony?

  I know. Before we go any further, I need you to hear me say, you didn't miss anything.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:31Dr. John Delony?

  You didn't miss anything.

• 45:34Dr. John Delony?

  One of the strangest things about people who die by suicide is their friend community, their family community often reports that the last week or two weeks before they passed, they seem to have turned a corner and they were so happy and so joyful and they came by and visited and they gave us cool stuff and they were just so overt, like it was, they were light.

• 45:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 45:56Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 45:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:01Speaker 03

  Well, it's good to hear.

• 46:02Dr. John Delony?

  I'm so sorry, man. So, um, how old's your kid? Your kids?

• 46:07Speaker 03

  Um, they're currently nine and seven.

• 46:11Dr. John Delony?

  Nine and seven, okay.

• 46:12Speaker 03

  Yep, and they ask often, you know, I mean, I keep pictures around and I talk about them and they just, I don't know how to explain to them what happened.

• 46:23Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 46:23Speaker 03

  And I don't want them, I don't want them to think suicide is okay.

• 46:27Dr. John Delony?

  Of course.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  But I don't want to stigmatize it either, you know, I mean.

• 46:29Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:30Speaker 03

  Something that happened, so.

• 46:32Dr. John Delony?

  So, um, I guess my first question is, are they gonna hear about this from a family member somewhere else down the road? A cousin or an aunt and uncle? Are they gonna hear the S-word, the suicide word? Are they gonna hear that from somebody or are they pretty self-contained?

• 46:48Speaker 03

  Um, I wouldn't think that it would come up.

• 46:53Speaker 03

  I mean, it's, I don't want to say that people don't talk about it, but it's not ever talked about in that sense, I guess.

• 47:01Dr. John Delony?

  Does she have, do your kids have cousins that they hang out with all the time?

• 47:06Speaker 03

  Uh, not all the time, but they see them, yeah. I mean, it's, it happens.

• 47:11Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Um, generally speaking, I want my kid to hear about something from me first if I think there's a chance they're gonna run into it. Developmentally speaking, so let's pretend that's off the table. Let's pretend no one's gonna say that about granddad. Your kids aren't gonna show up somewhere and hear that granddad died by suicide or committed suicide or whatever, took his own, like, they're not gonna hear that. And come to you as a 10-year-old and say, Daddy, what's suicide? Right? So let's pretend that's, that's off the table.

• 47:43Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 47:44Dr. John Delony?

  From zero to 12, zero to 11, depending on the maturity of your kid, every kid's different, I would say he got very, very sick and he died. That's it.

• 47:56Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 47:56Dr. John Delony?

  He was very sick. And then from 12 to about 16 ish, 15 ish, 16 ish.

• 48:06Dr. John Delony?

  Daddy was very, granddad was very, very sick in his, in his mind, in his head. What do you mean? He had a lot of, he had an illness, but it was in his brain.

• 48:17Dr. John Delony?

  And then 15, 16, as they ask further. Um, and we can sit down and explain. His mind was really sick and he thought that the way to heal his mind was to not be around anymore. Or he was so sick that he thought he was a burden to those of us and he thought the gift he could give us was to not be here.

• 48:40Dr. John Delony?

  And I miss him every single day.

• 48:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:44Dr. John Delony?

  And then at some point, your kid's gonna say, well, how did he do it? And you can say, that's my dad.

• 48:53Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm not ready to talk about that yet, but I will someday.

• 48:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:56Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 48:58Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 48:58Dr. John Delony?

  And then there'll be a weird moment when your kid's 18, 19, 20, 21, y'all are driving down the road. And something tragic comes on the news or whatever. And that's, it will happen somewhat organically unless you're a closed off dad and you don't sound like that kind of guy. Um, but if you keep open rapport with your kids, there will be a day when it's organic and it feels right.

• 49:19Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 49:20Dr. John Delony?

  And you'll say, that's how your granddad died. Whether it was a gun or whether it was medicine or whether it was, like whatever the thing is, like that's how your granddad died.

• 49:29Speaker 03

  Right.

• 49:30Dr. John Delony?

  But, but those type of things don't always have to be a big announcement. Um, but as for the young kids, yeah, they can't wrap their head around it.

• 49:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 49:38Dr. John Delony?

  Um.

• 49:45Dr. John Delony?

  I hate this for you.

• 49:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, thank you.

• 49:50Dr. John Delony?

  Um, and I always ask this question and I don't ask it to be, um, too intrusive, but. How are you? Do you have those thoughts too? That would the world be better if you weren't here?

• 50:00Speaker 03

  Absolutely not, no.

• 50:01Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome.

• 50:02Speaker 03

  After the pain I felt, absolutely not. I couldn't do that to anybody.

• 50:05Dr. John Delony?

  Awesome. Good for you. Have you forgiven your dad yet?

• 50:10Speaker 03

  Honestly, no.

• 50:11Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 50:13Dr. John Delony?

  It's okay to be really, really angry.

• 50:17Dr. John Delony?

  For robbing.

• 50:17Speaker 03

  Some days are better than others.

• 50:18Dr. John Delony?

  I know. Have you heard me? I tell everybody to do this thing, so, um, I'll tell you as well. There's a real beneficial exercise of the three letters.

• 50:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:31Dr. John Delony?

  To write your dad a letter and tell him how much you miss him. How amazing he was, as you talked about him to me.

• 50:38Dr. John Delony?

  Seal it up. As you talk, as you talk to me, like, man, he taught me everything I know. Be specific. Man, you taught me how to whittle, you taught me how to fix this thing, you taught me how to tie my shoes. And then write him a second letter. Put an envelope, seal it up. Put another, write him another letter. That tells him how frickin' pissed you are.

• 50:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:58Dr. John Delony?

  And then write him a third letter and tell him, Dad, I'm letting you go.

• 51:04Dr. John Delony?

  Here's what you're gonna miss, and, man, are we gonna miss you.

• 51:09Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 51:10Dr. John Delony?

  And I'm letting you go.

• 51:12Dr. John Delony?

  I want you to go rest, because you weren't able to rest here, I'm gonna go let you go. And I'm gonna use what you taught me, I'm gonna go be the best damn dad that ever existed.

• 51:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:23Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 51:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, I want that.

• 51:26Dr. John Delony?

  Let his spirits rest.

• 51:29Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 51:30Dr. John Delony?

  And then what you're gonna bring to your house is peace.

• 51:35Dr. John Delony?

  And you don't have that, your kids don't have that, your house doesn't have it. And you're working so hard for it.

• 51:41Dr. John Delony?

  Cause you're an incredible dad.

• 51:46Dr. John Delony?

  Let's, let's let your dad go.

• 51:49Speaker 03

  All right.

• 51:50Dr. John Delony?

  Okay?

• 51:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:54Speaker 03

  It's hard.

• 51:55Dr. John Delony?

  It is.

• 51:57Dr. John Delony?

  You didn't miss anything, it's not your fault, you know those things.

• 52:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:04Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 52:05Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. It's been one of the honors of my time here to talk to you today. Thank you for being open.

• 52:11Speaker 03

  Oh, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

• 52:14Dr. John Delony?

  You got it, man. You're a blessing, brother. Um, for everybody listening, um, you'll hear me say all the time, don't lie to your kids. Don't lie to your kids. And I'll tell you again, don't lie to your kids. And don't overshare with your kids. And there's a difference. Um, a nine-year-old, a 10-year-old, they can't wrap their head around suicide. What they do know is, um, they're just like dad. Half a dad is them. That means part of granddad is them. And it's a, just an algorithm that a young kid can't map out. So dad, granddad was sick, really, really sick. Dad was sick. Mom was sick. Your friend was really, really sick. And as they get older, will begin to clarify what sickness means

• 52:58Dr. John Delony?

  as they're able to internalize it. Some kids can't handle it until they're 18. Some kids can handle it at 15. And every kid's different. You'll know your kids. Whew. Joe, you're a good dad.

• 53:14Dr. John Delony?

  Andy would be really proud of you. We'll be right back. Okay, before we get back to the show, let's talk about Organifi. Good folks, health and wellness is an adventure and a journey. It's not a destination. You can never eat so great or work out so hard on one particular day that you're good for the entire next month. Being well and being healthy is something you work on every single day. And I'm not perfect by a long shot, and you're probably not either. Our health and wellness journeys have stops and starts and highs and lows, victories and setbacks. And one way to make your journey easier is to make consistently healthy choices about what you eat and drink. This is why I love Organifi,

• 53:57Dr. John Delony?

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• 54:40Dr. John Delony?

  and use code DALONI for 20% off. All right, we're back. It was time for, "Am I the Problem?" Go for it, Kelly.

• 54:50Speaker 04

  All right. So this woman put Jane Doe, so I'm assuming she doesn't want to be known.

• 54:54Dr. John Delony?

  Let's call her Kelly Daniel. Kelly Daniel writes.

• 55:01Speaker 04

  I automatically know now that you think she's the problem.

• 55:07Dr. John Delony?

  I'm the problem sometimes.

• 55:10Speaker 04

  All right. See, "My husband and I run a nonprofit business that has grown to successfully serve a large number of people in communities over the past 10 years. It's been a labor of love and a huge sacrifice for both of us, and it's also been wonderful to see our mission be fulfilled. The issue I'm having is my husband receives recognition a lot of time for our work in this space. He receives awards for being very well-recognized in regarded associations and organizations, and from the public view is that he runs this organization, and he who has sacrificed everything to preserve the particular community we serve, and I just sort of, quote-unquote, work there, too. In the beginning..."

• 55:54Dr. John Delony?

  I mean, this is getting real close to home, Jane Doe.

• 55:59Speaker 04

  "In the beginning, when he was receiving the recognition, I was so happy and proud, and I saw the recognition as a way to push our mission forward, which has definitely helped. But now I'm starting to feel resentful and a bit like the side chick in this operation. Am I the problem?"

• 56:16Dr. John Delony?

  Ooh, that one's tough.

• 56:22Dr. John Delony?

  Alright, I'm gonna talk this one out loud, and it might change my mind from what I originally said out loud. No, I think her feelings are real and valid. It's true. And if he is not recognizing her at every turn too, and there are husbands that placate, "I think my wife Jane," and then goes on to the next. And then if you can Google Steve Carell's first Emmy, when he said, "I didn't prepare anything, but my wife wrote this." And it's hilarious, and it's supposedly his wife writing his acceptance speech, but it keeps mentioning her over and over. And at the end, you realize he understands he has nothing without her. And it's really a beautiful, funny, very Steve Carell, but it's a sentiment. But it's like, the whole recognition speech was about her, right?

• 57:07Dr. John Delony?

  And it was really beautiful and well-done. And so, if he's not doing that, then shame on him, right? This is a joint thing. Yes, one person gets recognized. Like, same to the show. My face is on it. When it goes bad, I gotta go on, I gotta say, "I'm sorry." But when it goes good, everyone's like, "Man, your show." Well, dude, there's a whole crew back there, right? So, I get that. But if my life isn't dedicated to pointing out, "Dude, without you guys, I'm just some knucklehead on the street running my mouth, and I'm a lunatic," then shame on me. The other side of it is, there's a lot of ego involved here, right? Like, who cares? Like, life's too short. And so, I get both. I get them both. I don't know that anybody's a problem here.

• 57:49Dr. John Delony?

  I think the problem probably is, she hasn't sat down and said, "Hey, I'm feeling left out of this thing." And I know that I'm not supposed to, I'm a nonprofit, and I'm supposed to just sing kumbaya and say, "Yay, all the children are getting served." But, man, you have a lot of plaques with your name on them, and this is an us thing. And I'm, really, it's a relational issue. I'm not feeling like you appreciate me. I think that's a fair thing to say out loud. And, yeah, what do you think?

• 58:16Speaker 04

  I agree 100% with everything you said there. Nobody's a problem. And he probably doesn't even think about it.

• 58:23Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Or he probably is thinking, "She hates public speaking. She hates getting on stages. I'll do this for us."

• 58:28Speaker 04

  We're all just glad that, you know, the organization is getting recognition. But just have a conversation.

• 58:34Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. That conversation can be tough, but have it anyway. Not having it is also tough. Kelly, Joe, Andrew, Taylor, even me, Armando, Bob.

• 58:48Dr. John Delony?

  I'm nothing without you guys. So glad you're my gang. Appreciate you. Bye.