Ella McCay with Richard Lawson

It’s pretty hard being the governor of an unnamed state when you’re a 34-year-old woman with a husband who’s the heir to a local pizza empire and you’ve got a brother who has agoraphobia and your sleazy dad keeps leaving you weird voicemails and Julie Kavner is narrating your entire life story! Wooo, that was a lot. James L. Brooks’ Ella McCay is A LOT. Richard Lawson joins us to chat about this very strange movie that feels like a real outlier at contemporary multiplexes. If anything, Ella McCay is a refreshing throwback. Kind of. Minus a few glaring, mind-boggling missteps. Anyway, join us for a fun conversation about this latest Brooksian offering, and stick around for a very exciting announcement about the expansion of Blank Check Productions! Subscribe to Richard’s newsletter Premier Party https://www.premiereparty.com/ Sign up for Check Book https://blankcheckpod.substack.com/welcome, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. http://www.patreon.com/blankcheck Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter https://x.com/blankcheckpod?lang=en, Instagram https://www.instagram.com/blankcheckpod/?hl=en, Threads https://www.threads.net/@blankcheckpod?xmt=AQGzctAh4mbWTwYzCV1pzNT6AMV9o99EOfymi8TLR5mTde0 and Facebook https://www.facebook.com/blankcheckpodcast/! Buy some real nerdy merch https://kinshipgoods.com/blankcheck Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/s/gpcOkQr8Sv or Discord https://discord.gg/Q6YGSR3JrA For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com https://www.blankcheckpod.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 0:03David Sims?

  Yep.

• 0:03Griffin Newman?

  We did a live show.

• 0:04David Sims?

  Yeah, remember?

• 0:05Griffin Newman?

  Ranking Scorsese at the Bell House in Brooklyn. We did the definitive power ranking of Martin Scorsese things.

• 0:12David Sims?

  Uh, it was so fun. Uh, it was very silly.

• 0:15Griffin Newman?

  Ben and Marie were with us and they're with us right now.

• 0:18David Sims?

  Yeah, hey.

• 0:18Speaker 02

  Hey, everyone, or should I say, oh?

• 0:20David Sims?

  Oh.

• 0:22Griffin Newman?

  And thanks to our friends at Dynasty Typewriter. It was livestreamed for the first time ever. But also, the replay is still up there, but only until October 30th.

• 0:31David Sims?

  So just a few more days.

• 0:33Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 0:33David Sims?

  You can get it at dynasty.tv.

• 0:36Griffin Newman?

  Dynasty.tv.

• 0:37David Sims?

  It's $20. We had a blast and the Spreadmaster really got to work.

• 0:43Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah. I was moving things around. Laptop was on.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I don't know if I'd have seen you that happy.

• 0:48Griffin Newman?

  You were thrilled. You were like a pick and share.

• 0:50David Sims?

  I was locked in.

• 0:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, very locked in and you were funny.

• 0:53David Sims?

  Thank you. You were funny. You were also funny.

• 0:56Griffin Newman?

  Oh, thank you.

• 0:57David Sims?

  And if you want to see like, you know, Griffin's shine box on camera, it's the only way to see it.

• 1:02Griffin Newman?

  You might see me shine Marie's shoes.

• 1:04David Sims?

  Exactly.

• 1:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, if you're into that sort of content.

• 1:07Griffin Newman?

  If that gets you off.

• 1:09Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10David Sims?

  So once again, that's at dynasty.tv.

• 1:39Griffin Newman?

  I'm not going to talk yet. I'm not comfortable with podcasting, so I guess you could call me a reluctant narrator. But I just wanted to show up for Blank Check. I owe her a lot, so let's just thank you, start.

• 1:54Speaker 03

  At first I was like, that's a horrible Albert Brooks. And then I read, and then I was like, oh, it's actually a good Kafner.

• 1:59Griffin Newman?

  Thank you. Late, late period Kafner. Yeah. Um, there is no quote space for this movie.

• 2:05David Sims?

  I mean, it hasn't come out yet.

• 2:06Griffin Newman?

  In its defense, I'm sure it'll be funny. People usually are adding things from the trailer. Or you can find other websites that have it. And instead, what I just had to do was go back to the script for Ella McCay.

• 2:18David Sims?

  Hey.

• 2:19Griffin Newman?

  Which I will talk about, I read. In April of 2023.

• 2:23Speaker 03

  Cause you read for the Kavner part?

• 2:25Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. And they were like, you don't seem reluctant enough as a narrator. So what I just said might not actually match word for word, what is in the film.

• 2:33David Sims?

  But it it's along those lines.

• 2:35Griffin Newman?

  It's something like that. I'll say this as well.

• 2:37David Sims?

  Hi, I'm the narrator.

• 2:39Griffin Newman?

  A listener of the show messaged me, sent me a private message, I guess, like a year and a half ago, that they had gone to a test screening of this film in 2024.

• 2:50Speaker 03

  Taleoni messaged you?

• 2:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then like four months ago, messaged me again, I got a flyer for another test screening. I want to go and see how much they changed. And there were reshoots, I believe, at the beginning of this year that were fairly extensive. And he was like, the single biggest change was on screen Kavner narration.

• 3:09David Sims?

  And oh, like, like her sitting down in front of the camera.

• 3:13Griffin Newman?

  Which was not part of the script on paper and was not part of the original cut. They don't do it a lot. She was always meant to be narrating it and a character in the movie. But then the like, to tell you the truth, I'm nuts about her.

• 3:25David Sims?

  This is a pretty good Kavner you're doing. And so she's 75 years old.

• 3:30Griffin Newman?

  She is.

• 3:31David Sims?

  Which is the age that she should be as a woman who's been in our industry for a long time.

• 3:35Griffin Newman?

  She's earned that right and she's a living legend.

• 3:37David Sims?

  I love her.

• 3:38Griffin Newman?

  I, I, I.

• 3:39David Sims?

  And I was honestly kind of happy to see her.

• 3:41Griffin Newman?

  Agreed.

• 3:41David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 3:42Griffin Newman?

  Well, there's a lot of that in this movie.

• 3:44David Sims?

  Marge is, is a grandma. And yet on The Simpsons permanently, you know, 37 or whatever.

• 3:51Griffin Newman?

  Well, it's also as someone who is still very slowly pursuing the Herculean task of having watched every episode of The Simpsons. And I'm still like 10 years behind in that, even though I knock out like 30 plus episodes a year.

• 4:06Speaker 03

  So only 220 episodes ago.

• 4:09Griffin Newman?

  Like, I feel like, man, their voices have all really gotten bad and they're sounding really old. And yet, when I see a clip from like a new episode, it is astonishing. And it feels really uncanny, but seeing her on screen doesn't have that same effect. The problem is that Marge still looks the same age and now sounds like this. Seeing oldy Julie, oldy, excuse me, oldy Julie Kavner. I'm like, yeah, no, she seems, she sounds healthy. This is just her voice.

• 4:35Speaker 03

  That's, that's who, and in some ways, the, the brain does a trick where you're like, that's what she was always like.

• 4:39Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 4:39Speaker 03

  And he's like, no, that's not actually true.

• 4:41Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 4:41Speaker 03

  I read something that, that Brooks has known her since she was 19.

• 4:44Griffin Newman?

  Wow.

• 4:45Speaker 03

  What was a 19 year old Julie Kavner like?

• 4:50Speaker 03

  Basically that.

• 4:51David Sims?

  So James L. Brooks is 10 years older than her. So he would have been 29.

• 4:55Speaker 03

  Oh, I hope he knew her in the proper context.

• 4:58David Sims?

  There was no hanky panky.

• 4:59Speaker 03

  Back then.

• 5:01David Sims?

  The tagline for this film, Griff, that you couldn't find, uh, cause I think one of the posters just says, "A new comedy from James L. Brooks," or whatever, uh, is...

• 5:10Griffin Newman?

  Is this the original poster that's her and Jamie Lee Curtis grabbing each other?

• 5:14David Sims?

  Jamie Lee Curtis is sucking her life energies via her neck.

• 5:17Griffin Newman?

  A poster that was thankfully replaced with the main marketing image.

• 5:20David Sims?

  The iconic image.

• 5:21Griffin Newman?

  The stickiest posture, the stickiest.

• 5:25Speaker 03

  The suddenly icy-est, you know, like.

• 5:27Griffin Newman?

  I don't know how she does it.

• 5:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:29David Sims?

  I nailed that fucking pose.

• 5:30Griffin Newman?

  It was astonishing.

• 5:32David Sims?

  Gen Z's favorite thing in the world is the Alan McKay challenge.

• 5:35Griffin Newman?

  And we want to make sure all of our listeners know, there's still time. Just because the episodes come out, just because it's like past opening weekend, you're not too late to contribute to the Alan McKay challenge. Do the pose in front of the poster. But Ben and I took pictures of each other doing it and mine was so fucking smashed by Ben's success.

• 5:55David Sims?

  Yours was fine.

• 5:56Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna say we shouldn't even post mine. I was like, Ben, let's like try it and I'll give you notes to adjust it. And on the first try, he lined up perfectly.

• 6:05Speaker 03

  Well, Wante Cosley, they've always called him.

• 6:07Griffin Newman?

  And it's a tough pose to do because it is standing on one foot.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  No, I mean, it's, I physically don't think I could do that anymore. Like in my decrepitude.

• 6:15David Sims?

  I don't know how she does it. And Lieutenant Governor, the, the tagline was, "A story about the people you love and how to survive."

• 6:24Speaker 03

  Oh, which is so like, yeah, generic.

• 6:26Griffin Newman?

  A podcast about the people you love and how to survive.

• 6:28Speaker 03

  Ben just showed me the photo. It is actually.

• 6:31Griffin Newman?

  It's like a perfect map.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  I have to say, it's better than your caviar. It's really, it's really good.

• 6:36Griffin Newman?

  Cause, cause you look at it and you're not even like, oh, he's close. You're like, every angle is identical. And it's a tough pose to maintain.

• 6:44David Sims?

  What's this podcast?

• 6:45Griffin Newman?

  This podcast is called Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin.

• 6:49David Sims?

  And I'm David.

• 6:50Speaker 04

  It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who are massive.

• 6:54Speaker 03

  Success early on in their careers and I gave it a series of blind See, I did the Julie Kavner aging. Given a series.

• 7:02David Sims?

  Oh, me.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  An hour into this. Crazy passion projects they want. An hour into this podcast, it's just gonna be me talking because you guys will have destroyed your voices with Kavner.

• 7:12David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 7:15Speaker 03

  Baby.

• 7:16Griffin Newman?

  Many years ago, we did a mini series on the films of James L. Brooks.

• 7:20David Sims?

  Yeah, when was that?

• 7:21Speaker 03

  It was shockingly long ago, actually.

• 7:23Griffin Newman?

  Seventeen or eighteen?

• 7:24David Sims?

  Yeah. And what was it called?

• 7:25Griffin Newman?

  It was called Podcast News.

• 7:27David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:27Griffin Newman?

  I wanted to call it as Pod as a Cast and that was one of the early, we're gonna fight about the title in every episode, uh, mini series.

• 7:34David Sims?

  But Podcast News, that that was a great, uh, little, the nice, uh, art of us all on the TV and all that.

• 7:40Griffin Newman?

  And you made the argument, which was fair of.

• 7:42David Sims?

  Cast. He made a movie with the word cast in the title.

• 7:45Griffin Newman?

  Beyond that, he made a movie with.

• 7:46David Sims?

  Odd cast.

• 7:48Griffin Newman?

  You were like.

• 7:49David Sims?

  Even more.

• 7:50Griffin Newman?

  Come on, we can't not do this.

• 7:51David Sims?

  Um.

• 7:52Griffin Newman?

  We covered.

• 7:53David Sims?

  It was in twenty eighteen, early twenty eighteen.

• 7:55Griffin Newman?

  And I would say, so at that point, we're eight years past, how do you know?

• 7:59David Sims?

  Yep.

• 8:00Griffin Newman?

  Which felt comfortably like the last movie he will ever make.

• 8:03David Sims?

  Right, right. It was like, I guess James L. Brooks, the man is approaching his eighties. He's basically retired.

• 8:08Griffin Newman?

  The size of the.

• 8:09David Sims?

  Let's survey his career.

• 8:10Griffin Newman?

  No one's gonna let him do this again. Does he have the energy to even try to do this again? I had heard stories from people who worked on that film and people who auditioned for that film where they were like, noticing how much, since he takes such a long time in between films, he was like, I forgot it takes this much energy, that he was seeming worn down by trying to get through another movie. And yet, here we are, fifteen years after How Do You Know?

• 8:36David Sims?

  Been blessed years.

• 8:37Griffin Newman?

  James L. Brooks returns, a, a follow-up new release to a mini series I thought would never fucking happen. I will say, I probably would have put the odds about the same as the directors we've covered who are dead.

• 8:48David Sims?

  Right.

• 8:50Griffin Newman?

  It is astonishing.

• 8:51Speaker 03

  Suddenly, there's a new Buster Keaton movie that you're, yeah.

• 8:54Griffin Newman?

  And, you know, he's a blank check guy. He had a couple massive successes, but also-

• 8:59Speaker 03

  He might be among the blankest of checks in a way.

• 9:02David Sims?

  I got you this character poster for Steve Zahn in Anaconda. What do you think?

• 9:06Griffin Newman?

  I don't want to see that movie.

• 9:08David Sims?

  Oh, too bad.

• 9:08Griffin Newman?

  Everything about it makes me angry. And yet, I see-

• 9:12David Sims?

  You see Zahn.

• 9:13Griffin Newman?

  I see Zahn over the shoulder and I'm like, he doesn't get to do this that often anymore.

• 9:18Speaker 03

  It's about them making a remake. So they're aware of the movie Anaconda.

• 9:22Griffin Newman?

  They were kids-

• 9:23David Sims?

  Oh, they're not just aware, they're big fans.

• 9:24Griffin Newman?

  They were kids who remade Anaconda in their backyard and then now as adults in a sort of tag like, let's pick up our childlike traditions.

• 9:32Speaker 03

  Uh huh.

• 9:33Griffin Newman?

  Let's go back and remake it again, but this time go to the real jungle. And when they get to the real jungle-

• 9:38Speaker 03

  Something actually goes wrong.

• 9:39Griffin Newman?

  Correct. So it's like Tropic Thunder plus Be Kind Rewind, plus the fucking Raiders kids documentary, plus, you know, the, the eighth circle of hell. Um, but we don't let Steve Zahn do broad studio comedies anymore. So I guess they have my $20 or 32 and 40 X or whatever, so I can feel some fucking snake spit at me. The point is, Ella McKay is getting a wide release from the folks at 20th Century Studios, now a division of Walt Disney Pictures.

• 10:09David Sims?

  Yep.

• 10:10Griffin Newman?

  A move that just like shocked everyone when it was announced and the scuttlebutt had been quietly for the last three years. There, this is a quid pro quo. It's a very specific type of blank check, which is, we will let you make another film at a capped budget.

• 10:28David Sims?

  Yes, maybe not $120 million.

• 10:31Griffin Newman?

  Maybe not.

• 10:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, they learned their lesson.

• 10:33Griffin Newman?

  If you can successfully convince everyone to make a second Simpsons movie, and like Clockwork, the second Simpsons movie was officially announced one month ago. It is like a sort of, uh, a like hostage negotiation blank check, but he was holding valuable cards for them.

• 10:49Speaker 03

  I mean, I remember reading about when they were like, cause my parents live in Providence, Rhode Island, where this movie was largely shot. And so there was like local news about like James L. Brooks, Terms of Endearment director casting, you know, locals in Providence. And I was like, oh, my mom was like, that's so exciting. What do you know? And I said, oh, that's probably not going to happen.

• 11:05Griffin Newman?

  You said, how do you know?

• 11:06Speaker 03

  Well, exactly. But I was like, that's, that seems like something that-

• 11:08David Sims?

  I said Spanglish. I just said it.

• 11:12Speaker 03

  Well, I was speaking to my mom in Spanglish, but, um, but I just assumed that like, oh, it's, it's one of those things gets announced and then it just sort of disappears.

• 11:19Griffin Newman?

  It felt like that. And it was like, you know, he was very hands on with these two Kelly Fremont, Craig movies, who's like his mentee.

• 11:26David Sims?

  Yes. Good movies.

• 11:27Griffin Newman?

  Very excellent.

• 11:28David Sims?

  The edge of seventeen and are you there goddess me Margaret, to be clear.

• 11:31Griffin Newman?

  And you would hear these kind of rumblings or he'd give like interviews and promoting those two films where he's like, you know what? Watching Kelly work has kind of reignited a passion in me. So I previously thought I'd never make a movie again, but I've been noodling with some ideas. And you're like, will never happen. Even if he finished a script that he wanted to make, no one's gonna let him do this again. How do you know was just such a fucking calamity that one could argue kind of killed the studio comedy. I think that's like as serious a culprit as anything where that.

• 11:59David Sims?

  It felt a bit of a blow.

• 12:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 12:00Speaker 03

  I think it also like hastened the end of Nicholson's career.

• 12:03Griffin Newman?

  It hastened like everything.

• 12:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was, it, it.

• 12:07David Sims?

  Covid.

• 12:07Speaker 03

  It certainly, it like stopped, oh, it stopped Owen Wilson from being a movie star. It sent Reese Witherspoon to television.

• 12:13Griffin Newman?

  It's, it was like a Chernobyl level.

• 12:15Speaker 03

  It did a lot of shit.

• 12:16Griffin Newman?

  The way it like poisoned everyone who came within like a thousand miles.

• 12:20Speaker 03

  Rudd, uh, you know, he was fine.

• 12:23Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I mean, it's like, thankfully he had Marvel coming up soon. Like truly, you know, uh, which kind of like bounced him back. But then you're like, right. Here's Paul Rudd. Like one of our greatest comedy stars doesn't really get to make comedy movies anymore unless they're an Anaconda reboot or a Ghostbusters like a sequel.

• 12:42David Sims?

  Nobody.

• 12:42Griffin Newman?

  Or Ant Man, the comedy version, you know, the closest thing that Marvel has to pure comedy.

• 12:47David Sims?

  So funny.

• 12:48Griffin Newman?

  This is what I'm saying. But like, he's become a big budget IP comedy guy where you're like, oh, he's got a little off the hump energy.

• 12:54Speaker 03

  But like the role models days are far over.

• 12:57Griffin Newman?

  And how do you know, I think was supposed to be a transition moment for like Paul Rudd from role models to like, I would say almost equivalent from Tom Hanks making the, the switch from bachelor party to Sleepless in Seattle.

• 13:11Speaker 03

  A classy.

• 13:12Griffin Newman?

  Right. He could be a classy comedy star.

• 13:14Speaker 03

  Elegant, expensive, elevated comedy.

• 13:17Griffin Newman?

  Comes out of it the most alive and yet has to totally pivot.

• 13:20David Sims?

  There's like eight years between those movies.

• 13:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:22Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Um, what I was going to say is that.

• 13:26David Sims?

  No. Okay, fine. What were you gonna say?

• 13:29Griffin Newman?

  No, just to get ahead of this, I read this script several years ago. I did not audition for it. My rep sent it to me and said, "Do you want to read this to see if you're interested in playing the brother?" And I get to the brother character and I'm like, "This character is supposed to be like 23. I'm in my mid 30s." And Ella McCay is a character that exists across like three temporalities, but at her oldest, she's in her mid 30s. If they cast an actress who is like late 30s and age her down for the earlier stuff, then maybe we can put a fucking wig on me and a thousand pounds of makeup and I can pull this off.

• 14:06Speaker 03

  Waving through a window.

• 14:08Griffin Newman?

  This is the exact part I would have wanted to audition for when I was 22.

• 14:11Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 14:11Griffin Newman?

  Like even reading it, I was like, "Fuck." And the second they were like, "It sounds like he wants to cast Emma Mackey." I was like, "I'm not putting myself on tape. This is embarrassing."

• 14:20Speaker 03

  If Julie Kavner had played the Emma Mackey part, that would have been fine.

• 14:23Griffin Newman?

  I could have played the younger brother, but when I read the script, I was like, "Are they really gonna make this?" And it was like, "It hasn't been greenlit yet, but they're letting him do casting to see if he can assemble the right people." Then the writer's strike hits like a week after I read it and then the SAG strike. And I was just like, "Fuck, if this thing is now slowed down for six months in casting, this is never happening."

• 14:44Speaker 03

  No.

• 14:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 14:45Speaker 03

  And you say it's really long, right? The script?

• 14:47Griffin Newman?

  The script is longer.

• 14:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:48David Sims?

  But who's our guest?

• 14:51Speaker 03

  Oh, yes, right.

• 14:52Griffin Newman?

  Our guest today and talking about Ella McCay, a movie starring Emma Mackay.

• 14:57David Sims?

  So true.

• 14:58Griffin Newman?

  Is... Hey, the great Richard Lawson.

• 15:01Speaker 03

  Hello.

• 15:02Griffin Newman?

  Now, usually when you come on the show, we introduce you with the same old tired bylines.

• 15:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:10Speaker 03

  So I was let go from Vanity Fair because they found out I had been sleeping with Congressman Barney Frank for a number of years.

• 15:15Griffin Newman?

  Ooh, his.

• 15:16David Sims?

  Nipples visible.

• 15:17Speaker 03

  While reviewing his films, his many, many stag films.

• 15:21Griffin Newman?

  And also to be clear. No, the real problem was that you were sleeping with him in the side apartment of a government building.

• 15:31David Sims?

  Yes, come on, it's a simple trail to... These narratives are... Distinct and clear, Griffin. There's no question.

• 15:39Griffin Newman?

  I swear I'm not gonna do this, what was different in the script thing, and I even went out of my way to not reread the script so that I wasn't being persnickety about that. But I feel very confident that in the original script, the affair was happening in the phone call center.

• 15:56Speaker 03

  Which would make a fuck up a lot more-

• 15:57Griffin Newman?

  So much time to set up in this movie and then it doesn't really impact anything. But instead they're like, you know, it turned out there was an apartment in a government building that no one uses that we snuck into.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  Because I guess if the affair happened in the phone call building, it wouldn't have been a crime. It wouldn't have been a crime.

• 16:11David Sims?

  I mean, look, the entire quote unquote scandal is engineered in this way to make it nobody's fault and nobody's really done anything wrong. And you know what I mean? Like, it's like-

• 16:22Speaker 03

  They were just trying to make a baby.

• 16:23David Sims?

  Calibrated in this like really, you know, inoffensive way.

• 16:26Griffin Newman?

  If anything, kind of one of the big conceits of this movie-

• 16:29David Sims?

  Shot someone.

• 16:30Griffin Newman?

  If like, what if someone got caught in a scandal that actually doesn't mean anything to anyone?

• 16:35David Sims?

  Right.

• 16:35Griffin Newman?

  But technically could be used to take them down, even if there's no real offense being committed here.

• 16:39Speaker 03

  Right, like Watergate.

• 16:40Griffin Newman?

  And in my memory, exactly. They just want to read the files.

• 16:44Speaker 03

  That's all.

• 16:45David Sims?

  Let them look.

• 16:46Speaker 03

  Why not? What have you got to hide, Democrats, huh?

• 16:48Griffin Newman?

  In my memory, it being-

• 16:51David Sims?

  Your strategies? Oh, okay.

• 16:53Griffin Newman?

  In the like campaign phone bank center-

• 16:55David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 16:56Griffin Newman?

  Was explained through like 15 additional pages of how Biden seen that law was? That it wasn't illegal, but it affected campaign finances. Like it got deeper into James L. Brooks.

• 17:07David Sims?

  Is it possible it's based on some real scandal he like, you know, noticed the, you know, quote, quote-

• 17:13Griffin Newman?

  You hear this shit about him where he was like spending five years researching retired female softball players for how do you know? Because he's just like, I got very caught up in their lives and like, no one talks about this. And I had to research for five years before I could even write a single word. And this feels like there is some case he heard about.

• 17:30David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 17:30Griffin Newman?

  Of like, that's weird that there are laws like this.

• 17:33David Sims?

  What a funny technicality.

• 17:34Griffin Newman?

  Right. And whether he hung up with an imaginary one sparked by that idea or he based it around a real thing, I don't know.

• 17:41Speaker 03

  And he, he, he did like interview a lot of politicians like in the writing process, right? So like, I wonder if he talked to a lot of female politicians who were like, yeah, when you're like that busy and you're, but you're trying to start a family. It's actually really hard to find time to do, you know what, you know, and maybe that, I don't know, but it's something. It's like there was a better way to include that idea in the story that we-

• 18:02Griffin Newman?

  I feel the way about almost everything in this movie. A movie that I did not hate.

• 18:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:06Griffin Newman?

  But is certainly gas leak cinema.

• 18:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:09Griffin Newman?

  Is you saw it, David, and came back to me and said, I kinda liked it. And I was like, that's exciting. And you went, I mean, it is like handily by default, his fourth best film.

• 18:19Speaker 04

  Right, but that's a, there's a big gap.

• 18:23Griffin Newman?

  Even people who hate this movie, I think will need to concede it is his fourth best.

• 18:28Speaker 03

  Does that make Spanglish four?

• 18:30Griffin Newman?

  No. Well, someone in this room is probably gonna.

• 18:33Speaker 03

  Wait.

• 18:33Speaker 04

  I, as soon as it gets.

• 18:35Speaker 03

  I relistened to this Spanglish episode and I'd forgotten how endearingly Ben really liked the movie.

• 18:39Speaker 04

  I think it's fun.

• 18:41Speaker 03

  It's a great, and your, your contributions in that episode are lovely because it's like tempering my disdain.

• 18:46Griffin Newman?

  I saw this movie with Ben Hossley earlier this week and he turned to me the second it was over. And do you know what he said?

• 18:51Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 18:52Griffin Newman?

  Ben?

• 18:53Speaker 04

  Kinda liked it.

• 18:54Griffin Newman?

  Good. Excuse me.

• 18:55Speaker 03

  I see that.

• 18:55Griffin Newman?

  Excuse me. No, you said, I loved it. I did.

• 18:59Speaker 03

  While doing the pose?

• 19:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 19:02Speaker 04

  No, I really did love it. I don't know.

• 19:04Speaker 03

  Oh, I'm glad.

• 19:05Speaker 04

  And I'm not sure. I've been thinking about how to mount a defense for it. And it's, I don't know how even to other than, and it's the same thing with Spanglish. I just, I like these small stories about regular people that I find somewhat endearing, though often at times annoying, but that feels authentic. And even the on-tat kind of repartee dialogue kind of stuff, it doesn't grate me, even though I, I would like, expect it to. I actually just like, I lock in.

• 19:35Griffin Newman?

  We sat next to the great Bob Marshall and Ben's, what are you guys talking about? I loved it was in response to me saying, yeah, it's kind of bad, but it's the type of bad movie I've really missed. And a type of bad movie I greatly to prefer to most of the shit the studios are putting.

• 19:53Speaker 03

  I miss that genre of movie so much. Um, your, you know, sister brother podcast, This Had Oscar Buzz did an episode recently on used people.

• 20:03Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  Like a very forgotten, you know, like who's in that Shirley MacLaine, right?

• 20:08Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 20:09David Sims?

  Kathy Bates.

• 20:09Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 20:10David Sims?

  Tandy.

• 20:11Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, that's.

• 20:11David Sims?

  Tandy. That's the principal summoning Jessica Tandy to the office.

• 20:15Griffin Newman?

  And they're all playing, they're playing a Jewish family.

• 20:17David Sims?

  Marcelo Mastriani, Marcia Gay Harden, Joey Pants. I'm actually not noticing a lot of Jews, but yeah, sort of a this is where I leave you.

• 20:24Griffin Newman?

  But anyway, not a good movie.

• 20:26David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 20:26Griffin Newman?

  But like, man, they used to just make movies about like a quirky family or like.

• 20:30David Sims?

  Yes.

• 20:30Griffin Newman?

  Someone trying to like.

• 20:31David Sims?

  We all live in a neighborhood.

• 20:33Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 20:34David Sims?

  We yell at each other. I mean, it's sort of a moonstruck runoff.

• 20:36Griffin Newman?

  I'll also say, like, having a couple of days sitting on it, I'm like finding more and more reasons to put up tiny, half-hearted defenses for elements of this movie.

• 20:45David Sims?

  Oh, my case is good.

• 20:45Griffin Newman?

  Elements.

• 20:47David Sims?

  We should plug things.

• 20:49Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 20:49David Sims?

  But before that, I have to tell you the dual tagline of used people.

• 20:54David Sims?

  It's a float, you know, uh, uh, let's see, I'm seeing Marcia, Kathy, Shirley, Marcelo and Tandy.

• 21:01Griffin Newman?

  It's first names only on the post.

• 21:02David Sims?

  No, I wish it were. They're, but they're all sort of grouped together. And then Shirley's kind of like got her, she's like leaning on the moon, you know? So it's very moonstruck-y. And then there's a boy playing the accordion below them. Not sure why, but what I like about the tagline is it's, it's like me saying I'm done talking about something. Here's the tagline. A story about love, family and other embarrassments. Used people. Here's the second tagline. Life's tough, so laugh a little. Come on.

• 21:35David Sims?

  You got a problem with us making the, why don't you watch it? Laugh a little.

• 21:39Griffin Newman?

  We promise. It's so defensive.

• 21:42Speaker 04

  But it's also a little, like where it's not giving you expectations, like big expectations.

• 21:47David Sims?

  Life's tough. What are you gonna do? Not see used people?

• 21:50Griffin Newman?

  And then at the very end of the closing credits, it says, you didn't like it? What do we care? We got the money. Go home.

• 21:57David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 21:58Griffin Newman?

  Richard?

• 21:59Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 22:00Griffin Newman?

  The shocking news.

• 22:01Speaker 03

  So I got, I got booted for my congressional sex scandal.

• 22:04Griffin Newman?

  It shook the nation.

• 22:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. But you know, every, from every disgrace comes opportunity.

• 22:09David Sims?

  Right. And you've written a book called American.

• 22:12Speaker 03

  It's actually called American Canton. It's a, I go through.

• 22:16Griffin Newman?

  And you're re-releasing your EP Jailbait.

• 22:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:21Griffin Newman?

  You could not write that.

• 22:23Speaker 03

  That is, that is true.

• 22:24Griffin Newman?

  We found her fucking MySpace music. I could not believe that move.

• 22:29Speaker 03

  It's spelled G A O L, like the British.

• 22:31David Sims?

  Yeah, very Victorian, very Victorian.

• 22:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, I sing it in a Cockney accent. It's actually, it's pretty great. Um, no, I started a newsletter called Premier Party that it's on Beehive, but it's not Substack, it's Beehive. Um, I, it's gonna be movie reviews and other things, recaps. Probably the recaps will live behind the paywall, like Traders recaps, maybe some other shows, reality shows, very excited about that.

• 22:55David Sims?

  In the, in the glorious days of recapping, you were one of the internet's greatest.

• 22:59Speaker 03

  Well, thank you. It's the only reason I have a career, frankly. Um, so.

• 23:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, truly, your whole generation basically are the people who made it out of the recap industry alive.

• 23:11Speaker 03

  I got, speaking of the sad Oscar buzz, Joe Reed, um, I got hired at Vanity Fair because of Gossip Girl recaps and, uh, cause I knew the person who eventually like put me up for the job through Gossip Girl. Um, so anyway, I'm excited to get back to that. I hope that your listeners, whom I love, and, um, you know, I've been with for a long time now. This podcast is.

• 23:30Griffin Newman?

  One of our oldest and dearest friends.

• 23:32Speaker 03

  Um, will subscribe if they have the, the, the means to do so.

• 23:35Griffin Newman?

  I'm excited to read it myself and I'm very excited for this, uh, new endeavor, uh, you're plugging here that in no way affects my daily stress level or amount of responsibilities on a weekly basis.

• 23:46Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 23:46David Sims?

  Wait a second. What's in, what's in this door, Creed?

• 23:51Speaker 03

  What's, what's in this congressional apartment? Uh, yeah, there's one other thing that we're doing.

• 23:55Griffin Newman?

  There's one other thing that we're, we are incredibly excited about, which is, uh, we're, we're testing the water of expanding the, the Blank Check Productions umbrella a little bit. And we are excited to announce that there is going to be a mini-series running at the beginning of next year. It will be on our feed. The same feed you're listening to right now, there'll be a second release episode later in the week, every week, two a week. Richard, you want to tell people what the show is?

• 24:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's gonna be a recap of the second season of Designing Women, so get watching now.

• 24:29Griffin Newman?

  We've heard your cries. We're finally answering them.

• 24:33Speaker 03

  Yep, can't wait for it to talk about, you know, Jean Smart back when.

• 24:36Griffin Newman?

  It's called Pod Designing Win Cast.

• 24:39Speaker 03

  It's called Meshack Taylor Cast. No, the show is called Critical Darlings because I am a film critic still, even though I'm just an independent newsletter person.

• 24:49Griffin Newman?

  And you're just darling.

• 24:52Speaker 03

  Well, thank you. I'm a little darling, a little cutie. And my co-host, the great Alison Wilmore of Vulture, is also a film critic. And she is also even darlinger than I am.

• 25:02Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 25:03Speaker 03

  But we're also, second meaning, going to be talking about movies that were, for the most part, some of the critical darlings of the year.

• 25:11Griffin Newman?

  It's, yes, as, as we're in, you know, top 10 season award season, all of that. We're gonna do a show throughout January, February, in March, a new episode every week. That is you and Alison, produced by our friend Ben Frisch.

• 25:26Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 25:26Griffin Newman?

  Producer Ben, too.

• 25:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, because you have to have, it's in your bylaws that you guys wrote, you know?

• 25:32Griffin Newman?

  It's in the bylaws.

• 25:33Speaker 03

  And for a while, it was gonna be Shapiro. But I would, you know, but you guys didn't really want to partner with Daily Wire for whatever reason. But yeah, why is it going through March? Is there something happening there that would somehow border?

• 25:44Griffin Newman?

  The Academy Awards will be handing out, how do I describe them? Miniature?

• 25:48Speaker 03

  Miniature.

• 25:49Griffin Newman?

  Nude. Metalized. Humans.

• 25:52Speaker 03

  Males, yeah. Yeah, so it is, it is in some ways an Oscar podcast because we will primarily be focusing on, you know, the 10 movies or so that are Best Picture contenders and then later nominees. But I'm sure the conversation will expand past that and we'll talk about more Critical Darling movies of the year that maybe didn't get nominated. Yeah, we're just gonna kind of take the temperature of this year's quote unquote prestige movies in a way that this podcast, as expansive as you guys are able to be, can't always do because it's not, they're not attached to a specific director.

• 26:25David Sims?

  Nationally, we'll get an Ella McKay, which I see this is an Oscar frontrunner, right?

• 26:29Speaker 03

  It already won.

• 26:30Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, they called the ceremony off. We all know where this is going.

• 26:34Speaker 03

  It's kind of a bummer for our, for the new podcast, but, but whatever. We'll, we'll make do.

• 26:38David Sims?

  The race is over.

• 26:40Griffin Newman?

  Other candidates have announced they're stepping down. Hamnett has pulled out of the race out of deference.

• 26:45David Sims?

  Hamnett is throwing its delegates to Ella McKay.

• 26:47Speaker 03

  Jessie Buckley committed seppuku in front of Julie Kavner.

• 26:50Griffin Newman?

  Uh, but you and Alison are two of the best and two of the, the dearest friends of the podcast. And I think for people, I'm always excited to read or listen to in any format, talk about what's going on. And our show obviously is often recorded very far in advance.

• 27:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:05Griffin Newman?

  And people love when they get to hear our new release episodes where we're talking in tighter window and can speak more about current events. I think this show will also serve that function of being able to talk about what's going on in the movie world that week. How the sort of narratives of a year of cinema get formed. That's really what happens at the beginning of every year is we start to basically assemble the yearbook of how that year that just ended will be talked about. And that ends with the awards, but that's obviously not the end of the true conversation.

• 27:33Speaker 03

  No, no, the conversation can go on and on. So, but yeah, I think that it's going to be really fun to, to talk about these movies that for the, for the most part, you guys have not covered on this show, but also like, you know, we're going to do like an episode about the nominations. We're going to do some predictions. We're going to do, you know, lots of other stuff that's sort of related to this class of movies of 2025.

• 27:53Griffin Newman?

  We will guest, uh, other friends of Blank Check Universal guests. We're very, uh, excited about it.

• 27:59Speaker 03

  Thank you. And thank you for, this all began to peek behind the curtain. Right after I lost my job, I was at Barney Frank's house crying and I texted you guys.

• 28:08David Sims?

  Is Barney Frank still alive?

• 28:09Griffin Newman?

  He's got shoulder to cry on.

• 28:10Speaker 03

  I don't know. He's from my home state.

• 28:11David Sims?

  Was he your congressman back in the day?

• 28:13Speaker 03

  No, he was, he's more southeastern Massachusetts. So actually where I spent summers.

• 28:18David Sims?

  But 85 years old.

• 28:20Speaker 03

  But I texted you, I think it was like a couple of days after I got the news, kind of like not serious, like, hey, you want to do a spinoff podcast? And then low and behold, all these months later, you guys took it seriously. And that is the honor of a lifetime. So thank you.

• 28:35Griffin Newman?

  It's been many months to figure out how it happened. We should mention it's going to be a co-production with Vulture.

• 28:41Speaker 03

  Yes, because Alison is at Vulture. And so we're going to use some of their fine resources and it's going to be great.

• 28:47Griffin Newman?

  And tremendous support.

• 28:48David Sims?

  Yeah, you got both of Jesse David Fox's arms. You get to use them.

• 28:52Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 28:52David Sims?

  Not the rest of them.

• 28:53Speaker 03

  Yeah. And Alison and I will solely be talking about standup sets we saw the night before.

• 28:57David Sims?

  Right. And Rebecca Alter will break through the wall like the Kool-Aid Man, but only once. You won't know when.

• 29:02Griffin Newman?

  Right. She, she will have a segment each episode reviewing the popcorn bucket for that specific best picture candidate.

• 29:09Speaker 03

  And I'll just be like, Alison, name a Jamie Lee Curtis movie that starts between the letters R and Z, you know?

• 29:15Griffin Newman?

  The L M K popcorn bucket has not been selling super well, which is the shoe turned sideways.

• 29:20Speaker 03

  It's hard to fuck. That's the problem.

• 29:22David Sims?

  It's actually Woody Harrelson's confused head.

• 29:26Speaker 03

  Less hard to fuck, but you know, maybe you don't want to.

• 29:29Griffin Newman?

  Very excited for Critical Darling.

• 29:30Speaker 03

  Yes, thank you, Critical Darling. I think we have January 1st as a premiere date. You guys will be dark that week, so we figured.

• 29:35Griffin Newman?

  We'll say that. That's the other fun thing is we obviously take this like this, the gap between kind of Christmas and New Year's off every year from our main feed. And that's when we're going to drop the first one for you to kick off 2026. And then it will come out every Thursday after that.

• 29:50Speaker 03

  That's right. And yeah, for now, we're running through March, but who knows what the future holds?

• 29:53Griffin Newman?

  Who knows?

• 29:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:59Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 29:59David Sims?

  Yes.

• 30:03David Sims?

  Is that the C S cow? Haven't heard from her in a while.

• 30:07Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, she's reactivated because she's horny for chicken fingers.

• 30:12David Sims?

  Okay.

• 30:12Griffin Newman?

  And she's excited for the streaming debut of Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma.

• 30:17David Sims?

  Wow.

• 30:17Griffin Newman?

  The cow likes chicken.

• 30:20David Sims?

  Remember cow and chicken? Let's look it up while you tell the great listeners about the great stuff on movie.

• 30:26Griffin Newman?

  Well, MUBI is a global film company bringing great cinema to the world and to you. Curating and elevating visionary filmmaking, all handpicked, always. That's what MUBI does. Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, one of my favorite movies of the year.

• 30:40David Sims?

  Absolutely.

• 30:41Griffin Newman?

  You can feel the rush now at home. There's a hole at the bottom of the lake where the movies come from.

• 30:46David Sims?

  That is a line in the movie.

• 30:48Griffin Newman?

  In the new movie from Jane Schomburg, Past and Future Guest.

• 30:50David Sims?

  Past and Future Guest, a great filmmaker, a great podcast guest, a great friend.

• 30:55Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 30:56David Sims?

  Um, this movie rocks. It's got, of course, it stars Hannah Einbinder and Gillian Anderson.

• 31:01Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 31:02David Sims?

  Legends and I tip my cap, but Zach Cherry.

• 31:05Griffin Newman?

  Friend of the show.

• 31:05David Sims?

  Friend of the show Zach Cherry.

• 31:07Griffin Newman?

  Zach Cherry.

• 31:08David Sims?

  Also in it.

• 31:09Griffin Newman?

  This is true.

• 31:10David Sims?

  Such a cool movie. Won the Queer Palmakan. If you haven't heard about this movie, I don't know what's going on with you, but like it obviously has, it was out in theaters uh this summer and now it's on MUBI.

• 31:20Griffin Newman?

  Hannah Einbinder plays the filmmaker attempting to reboot the Camp Miasma franchise, trying to track down the original final girl from the first movie to, to make some sort of legacy sequel, who's played by Gillian Anderson, who lives at the summer camp.

• 31:34David Sims?

  Yes. And you know, and then they hang out and it's regular.

• 31:38Griffin Newman?

  What happened? It's, it's one of those Hollywood's out of ideas. No, it's very much a movie about Hollywood being out of ideas while being uh an example of there still being new stories to tell.

• 31:50David Sims?

  It's now streaming exclusively on MUBI and you can try MUBI free for 30 days at MUBI.com slash blank check. That's M U B I dot com slash blank check for a whole month of great cinema for free.

• 32:03Griffin Newman?

  They got so many great movies on there to watch, but worth it for 30 days for Miasma.

• 32:08David Sims?

  Damn right.

• 32:14Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 32:14David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 32:15Griffin Newman?

  It's not cuffing season for me, it's hosi season for me. And this year, that meant finally upgrading my new mattress from Lisa.

• 32:22David Sims?

  Lisa.

• 32:24Griffin Newman?

  It's supportive, comfortable, and just what my body needs after a long day. It makes crawling into bed on a chilly fall night feel like luxury.

• 32:31David Sims?

  Yeah, I have a Lisa too. They've got a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep.

• 32:37Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 32:37David Sims?

  Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and feel preferences in mind. They've got eco-friendly materials.

• 32:44Griffin Newman?

  Maybe you hear eco-friendly and you go, oh, but I'm gonna sacrifice comfort.

• 32:48David Sims?

  No.

• 32:48Griffin Newman?

  Nope.

• 32:49David Sims?

  They've been awarded best hybrid and best memory foam mattresses by New York Times' Wirecutter. They're featured by West Elm as their go-to mattress partner. And they work with local nonprofits across the US to donate thousands of mattresses each year to families in need. Over 43,000 mattresses donated to date. Go to lisa.com for up to 30% off mattresses. Plus, get an extra $50 off with promo code blank check. Exclusive for our listeners. That's L-E-E-S-A.com promo code blank check for up to 30% off mattresses, plus an extra $50 off. Let them know we sent you in the survey after checkout. Lisa.com promo code blank check.

• 33:36Griffin Newman?

  David.

• 33:37David Sims?

  Yes.

• 33:37Griffin Newman?

  Shop.com is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash.

• 33:41David Sims?

  Wow. Shop has all the stores you love and lets you track every order in one spot.

• 33:47Griffin Newman?

  I love that. It's very convenient.

• 33:48David Sims?

  And now, 1,000 shoppers are each gonna win $1,000 in Shop Cash, just in time for the holidays.

• 33:56Griffin Newman?

  You get gifts for everyone on your list, or get yourself something a little merry and bright. Find exactly what you're looking for at shop.com.

• 34:04David Sims?

  Uh, got stocking stuffers, maybe the sickest luxury items. Cookware to kicks, toys to high tech, even tinsel and tree toppers. Type in what you're looking for to instantly search every shop at once. Okay, that's shop.com. You can just go click around, find brands you love, search across all the stores, track every order in one spot.

• 34:27Griffin Newman?

  From cult favorites to the world's biggest brands, score suite deals and check out fast all at shop.com. Enter to win the $1 million shop cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

• 34:57Griffin Newman?

  It is funny that there were a couple of things.

• 35:00David Sims?

  It's like waiting on your wedding day. No, that's ironic. Sorry, carry on.

• 35:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, it's funny like TBS.

• 35:07Griffin Newman?

  When we've covered director in the past and they have a new release, we circle back and put it on main feed. There were a couple of things on paper, if you were looking at the schedule a year ago, where we're like, huh, some of our past subjects might be back in the Oscar race.

• 35:21David Sims?

  Such as?

• 35:22Griffin Newman?

  House of Dynamite.

• 35:23David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 35:24Griffin Newman?

  Ella McKay.

• 35:25David Sims?

  House of Dynamite.

• 35:27Griffin Newman?

  We have Avatar Fire and Ash, is this thing on? And no other choice still to come, but certainly no, none of those movies feel like significant front runners?

• 35:38David Sims?

  No, no, no, certainly not.

• 35:41Griffin Newman?

  But they're all films that were certainly positioned and have been released in this corridor for that purpose.

• 35:49David Sims?

  They are, they are very much a fall to Christmas movies. Yes.

• 35:53Griffin Newman?

  The original announcement was that Disney Fox was putting this in September. It was like, that feels like the obvious place to burn this off if you don't have a lot of faith in this.

• 36:01David Sims?

  Everyone was saying like, oh, it's messy. And you're like, sure, it's named so. Brooks like, yeah.

• 36:05Griffin Newman?

  And then they pushed it to the week before Christmas and people were like, are they feeling good about it? Like, that's not an obvious place to bury a movie.

• 36:13David Sims?

  No.

• 36:13Griffin Newman?

  Played zero festivals.

• 36:15David Sims?

  Uh, not even like AFI or anything.

• 36:17Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 36:17David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 36:18Griffin Newman?

  Uh, we will not know, uh, at the time of this recording, uh, how it's performing at the box office. But I'm

• 36:26David Sims?

  I gotta guess.

• 36:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 36:28Speaker 03

  Well, is it gonna be 40 million, 60 million? We're just not sure yet.

• 36:30David Sims?

  Friday? Oh, I'm not sure. Yeah.

• 36:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. China is gonna be enormous, bigger than Zootopia 2.

• 36:35Griffin Newman?

  I said with zero disrespect, I could see this being the first movie to open to negative million dollars.

• 36:40David Sims?

  I don't think it's gonna make a lot of money and I don't think it's going to get good reviews.

• 36:43Griffin Newman?

  And a lot of that is, you can just see Disney being like, we don't even know how to fucking market this type of movie anymore.

• 36:48Speaker 03

  Plus, all the people who used to are retired or dead.

• 36:51David Sims?

  It's also, the audience for this kind of movie seemingly, you know, is not really there in theaters anymore. And I like this movie. I think it's an interesting little thing, but I'd be the first to admit that it's, it's kinda hard to explain what it is. And it's messy in that James L. Brooks way of, it's got a lot of ideas and a lot of characters. And I mean, the poster has nine people above the title, some of whom are famous.

• 37:21Griffin Newman?

  I mean, it's so fine to this point. First poster is Jamie Lee Curtis grabbing her shoulders, the tagline you mentioned. And that's clearly Disney being like, people like Jamie Lee Curtis now, right?

• 37:30Speaker 03

  Right.

• 37:30Griffin Newman?

  Let's really sell this as Jamie Lee Curtis movie.

• 37:32David Sims?

  She's winning awards, right?

• 37:33Griffin Newman?

  Right, we have Freaky Friday coming out the same year.

• 37:36David Sims?

  Right.

• 37:36Griffin Newman?

  And then they transition-

• 37:37David Sims?

  And she's playing a brassy, matriarchal figure.

• 37:39Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 37:40David Sims?

  An ant, actually, but yeah.

• 37:41Griffin Newman?

  Right, in a supporting part.

• 37:42David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 37:43Griffin Newman?

  Then they transition to the infamous Pose poster.

• 37:46David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 37:47Griffin Newman?

  On just a stark white background, trying to position it as like, this is James L. Brooks trying to make another star-making movie, a vehicle for an actress leveling up.

• 37:56Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:56Griffin Newman?

  And then-

• 37:57Speaker 03

  As it did for Taya, you know, and-

• 37:58Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. This final poster has been that same image, but now with like 27 floating heads around her.

• 38:06David Sims?

  They put some square floating heads.

• 38:07Griffin Newman?

  We need every recognizable face who's in this movie.

• 38:09David Sims?

  They got six heads next to Ella. So they got Kamel, Jamie Lee Curtis, Woody Harrelson in the most normal, regular wig ever.

• 38:20Griffin Newman?

  Two, two of the most normal wigs.

• 38:22David Sims?

  Albert Brooks, Io, our friend Io Adaberry, who is-

• 38:26Griffin Newman?

  Adaberry.

• 38:27David Sims?

  Adaberry, sorry, who is- Almost a spoiler to put on the poster, just the way the movie treats that character? And then Jack Loudon. So they're not putting Spike Fern on the poster despite him being, I suppose, a big character because he's not very well known.

• 38:41Griffin Newman?

  I would argue he is the second lead.

• 38:42David Sims?

  I mean, sort of is, and but, I mean, whatever.

• 38:45Speaker 03

  Surprisingly big part for someone who doesn't show up for a while.

• 38:47David Sims?

  Or know how to act.

• 38:48Griffin Newman?

  And I'll also say from having.

• 38:50Speaker 03

  Your brother texted me about it.

• 38:52Griffin Newman?

  I will say from having.

• 38:53David Sims?

  I'm sure he did, yes.

• 38:54Griffin Newman?

  Read the script.

• 38:55David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 38:55Griffin Newman?

  The part feels bigger in the final movie than it did in reading it because it feels like the stuff they cut out was in the other plotlines versus every single second of the brother plotline is in there. And also I remember it being a little more dispersed and it does feel like the middle 30 minutes of the movie are all her and the brother. And then this big day new map with I O, who this movie was passed long ago enough that she basically agrees to do this like right after season one of the bear.

• 39:25David Sims?

  Yeah, almost like Jameson Brooks.

• 39:26Griffin Newman?

  And now they're marketing it with her face on the poster and Ben was like, did they cut most of that character out? I'm like, no, it was always this one scene.

• 39:32David Sims?

  Big scene.

• 39:33Speaker 03

  Small part, yeah.

• 39:34David Sims?

  Not including Rebecca Hall, but I guess she's only got the one scene.

• 39:39Griffin Newman?

  Yes, in my memory, there was a little more that was also cut out.

• 39:42David Sims?

  Not including Kavner. You don't want Kavner up there?

• 39:45Griffin Newman?

  Crazy about her.

• 39:47David Sims?

  Not including Troy Garrity?

• 39:48Griffin Newman?

  Excuse me, I'm nuts about her. I think Garrity's not in the final cut.

• 39:51David Sims?

  Well, I'm seeing him on Wikipedia.

• 39:53Speaker 03

  I'm nuts of an older lady saying I'm nuts about her about like a kind of a younger woman. That is the most like Brooks. I think that might be the Brooks thing in the movie and it happens within the first two minutes.

• 40:02David Sims?

  It was, it was just like being put in a warm bath for me. I was like, yes, please.

• 40:07Griffin Newman?

  This is an ultimate, they don't make them like this anymore movie.

• 40:11David Sims?

  And possibly they never did, except for this one guy.

• 40:13Griffin Newman?

  The argument can then be, is that a good thing or not? But you watch it and you're like, this is an experience that does not exist in our movie ecosystem anymore, certainly not coming from a major studio. And the, watching this in a theater feels uncanny because you're so used to every version of a movie like this being punted straight to streaming.

• 40:35David Sims?

  You know, I saw this film at Disney's headquarters.

• 40:39Speaker 03

  Which was a weird experience.

• 40:40David Sims?

  Yeah, you were there, right?

• 40:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:42David Sims?

  Which is they have a fairly new building down in downtown Manhattan.

• 40:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:46David Sims?

  With a gorgeous theater.

• 40:48Speaker 03

  And also for a studio screening room, enormous. Like you go to like, Universal screening room's pretty small. Even their old one was small.

• 40:55David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 40:56Speaker 03

  Warner's screening room was small, was.

• 40:58Griffin Newman?

  This is like state of the art tech setup.

• 41:00David Sims?

  Did you see Mickey? Uh, I didn't see Pluto, didn't see Minnie.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  You know what's was sad is all the song of the South characters were in a lot.

• 41:07David Sims?

  Yeah, they were there.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  And that was kind of unfortunate.

• 41:10Griffin Newman?

  I've heard Pluto's still largely work from home.

• 41:13David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 41:13Griffin Newman?

  He comes in like once a month.

• 41:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's been fighting the RTO policy with the union and the whole thing.

• 41:20David Sims?

  And so, yeah, it was one of those like, there's 200 seats, like, take your pick. And I was like, right here, baby. And I watched it with several other members of our critics organization, which is why we were seeing it. And chuckled heartily and heard no other chuckles around me.

• 41:38Speaker 03

  Here's the thing about it is I didn't love it.

• 41:39Griffin Newman?

  You were at the same screening.

• 41:40Speaker 03

  I was at the same screening. I didn't, I wanted more for it. But the thing is, and yes, you're right, David, it probably will get some negative reviews. And if I were reviewing it, my review ultimately would have been negative. But I don't, I'm really dreading the snark about it.

• 41:53David Sims?

  I am too.

• 41:53Speaker 03

  Because it does not merit that.

• 41:54David Sims?

  What was that, you know, kind of reaction?

• 41:56Speaker 03

  It's an 85 year old guy trying to hearken back to a wonderful, as Ben pointed out, wonderful era of movies when a lot of movies like this existed. And I find nothing wrong with that effort.

• 42:07David Sims?

  I agree.

• 42:08Speaker 03

  The execution, hmm, maybe, you know, desires, but like, I don't know. I just, I can't, I really am dreading that people being like, can you believe this scene?

• 42:16Griffin Newman?

  No, it's, it's a problem with a lot of our discourse. And I do think when this movie likely flops, it's going to inspire a lot of really annoying headlines from just sort of industry handicappers. We're not even talking about the artistry behind it or lack thereof. You know, either one, the defensible position, but are more talking about like, it makes no business sense to make this movie. And it's like, well, this movie got made because he has this fucking control in The Simpsons. But also, we should not be discouraging studios from trying to make movies like this. It is not a big risk on their part financially.

• 42:51Speaker 03

  Sure isn't. No, especially now, you know?

• 42:53Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 42:54Speaker 03

  You know, and I, so I don't want the snark, but that doesn't mean that there's not a lot to be taken from. You know, like, that's the thing. It's, but it's, it's a loving mockery. Stuff.

• 43:02David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 43:02Griffin Newman?

  Do you remember me texting you when I got the script?

• 43:05David Sims?

  No.

• 43:06Griffin Newman?

  I was, I was filming Alex Ross Perry's Pavements. And there was like many hours in between setups, or I wasn't needed or whatever. And I'm like, sitting on the set, which is just like an office, right? On a couch and the script kind of came through and I was like, oh, I'm going to read this immediately. And I texted the blank check group text like halfway through it. And I'm like, well, first I texted and I was like, holy shit. Cause the movie had-

• 43:28David Sims?

  Reading new James-

• 43:30Griffin Newman?

  Hadn't been announced yet.

• 43:31David Sims?

  Right.

• 43:31Griffin Newman?

  And I was like, there's a new Brooks movie. They're casting and I have the script on my phone right now. And then I read it and halfway through, I'm like, guys, some of this is great. And it very much read, while not identical to the finished movie, like the movie, where I'm like, there'll be 15 pages where I'm like, what the fuck is Brooks on about? And then there's like 10 pages where you're like, oh shit, there's an idea here. And the dialogue's crackling and this character's fun. And I said to the group, when I finished it, my big question is, this reads like the best movie he's made in 20 years.

• 44:05David Sims?

  Sure.

• 44:05Griffin Newman?

  But it's-

• 44:06David Sims?

  Again, a little default there.

• 44:07Griffin Newman?

  Messy and not perfect. It feels very kind of vomit drafty. And even still, faint praise, better than the last three, uh, or last two, I guess. And my question is, is this how like Broadcast News read early? Before he massaged it and got it perfect? Or did, how do you know, half work on paper? And then he totally lost it in the process? And you hear about how long and drawn out every Brooks production is, how he reworks things, how he rewrites things, reshoots things. And you're just like, this clearly isn't a final document. But which direction does this go in?

• 44:48Speaker 03

  Which is why, like, after I saw it, I was like texting Bobby Finger and Dan DeDario and other, someone else about it. And I was like, they were like, did you like it? And I was like, I don't know. But I was like, honestly, I would watch the version that's 45 minutes longer. Even if it's also a mess, at least I'm seeing the complete mess. You know, and I'm just endlessly curious about what was cut and what it would have added or taken away. Because yeah, you're right, like it maybe- I don't know, like his, his, his, he can turn his vomit into something really remarkable, but.

• 45:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, I think this movie also has like four or five major concerns and Sims, I think you have a very good take on what the larger project is here of what he's trying to say. And, uh, I will tee you up for this in a second, but I, it felt like in the script I read, it was like, there are five kind of major plot lines or themes in the movie, which all got an equal amount of attention.

• 45:41Speaker 03

  Right.

• 45:42Griffin Newman?

  And it's sort of like, this movie is flittering all around.

• 45:44Speaker 03

  Scandal, dad returning, brother problems.

• 45:46Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 45:47Speaker 03

  New job.

• 45:48David Sims?

  Marriage.

• 45:49Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 45:50Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah.

• 45:50Griffin Newman?

  Right, right. I would say like, here's what I would say.

• 45:52David Sims?

  And there's this girl that's nuts about it.

• 45:54Griffin Newman?

  I would say like, three parts about the, the job, right? Like, public relations scandal.

• 45:59Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:00Griffin Newman?

  Relationship marriage.

• 46:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:02Griffin Newman?

  And like her actual beliefs and aspiration and trying to fight a sort of like stuck in the mud cynicism. And then there are the two main family plot lines, which are the dad and the brother. And it felt like those five things all kind of got equal weight. And it was still messy, but it felt a little more cohesive to me because I was just like, I understand all of these are feeding into the same larger idea. And this movie in the final edit puts the thumb on certain things that maybe they thought were more marketable, specifically the kind of more romantic relationship things. That does make it feel like, what is he trying to say here? David, your take?

• 46:42David Sims?

  Um, well, so my take was, uh, that this is a masterpiece and five stars and there's no issues. No, uh, that was not my take. My take was if Spanglish is his sort of like white guilt movie about like, I can't believe, right? That's clearly him processing like the situation. I'm this rich guy. I have this complicated dynamic with these people I employ and they're real people too. And I don't want to, you know, like minimize that. And then you can just feel himself like hyperventilating, like working himself up. Like, I mean, it's just ridiculous, right?

• 47:11Griffin Newman?

  The chef movie Spanglish?

• 47:13David Sims?

  Yes. My favorite Chap movie.

• 47:14Griffin Newman?

  This is the other unique thing about James L. Brooks is that like, he's not a guy who starts from like, I got a great log line.

• 47:20David Sims?

  I got a hawk. Right. No, it's like, I big, what am I thinking about? What's troubling me?

• 47:25Griffin Newman?

  There's a theme that's been like, sticking with me lately.

• 47:28David Sims?

  This is his boomer guilt movie of just like, looking at the generations, you know, beyond him, his kids, grandkids, or whatever, and being like, we've left you such a mess. Like, you're not prepared for anything because we've like modeled nothing well. Like, both of her father figures in this movie are disasters. Woody's a real villain. Albert isn't so much a villain. Is this kind of well-meaning, you know, politician who is kind of fucking her over, like, or whatever, you know, right?

• 47:57Griffin Newman?

  And like- It's the exact thing she doesn't want to become, even though she considers him a friend and a mentor.

• 48:01David Sims?

  Right. And it's like, you have to save the world. You have to put all this back together. He's setting it right at the 2008 where it's like, the time of promise, but also the time when everything fell apart and the recession happened and everything. And he's just like, and, you know, you're supposed to have functioning relationships. We never, you know, we never helped you out with figuring out how to do that. And, you know, we basically have put it all on your plate, Ella McKay. Cause it's like this parody of a, I don't know how she does it, person where it's like, yes, not only does she have the bad dad and she lost her mom and she's now she's in this marriage that's not totally working and she's trying to fix it, but she's literally becoming the governor and having everything put on her plate. And she's like, I, I'm, I'm ready for this. I want, I, you know-

• 48:45Griffin Newman?

  I've been waiting my whole life for this.

• 48:46David Sims?

  I want to fix things. Like, I, I'm eager. I'm like, you know, I'm an idealistic person. And it's like, no, the world's, you know-

• 48:53Speaker 03

  How do you maintain principle and idealism when, when there's no more infrastructure for it?

• 48:57Griffin Newman?

  That's a big part of it. And I also think, you know, he pointedly sets this movie in 2008. And I think there are a couple of reasons why he does that, but I also- It felt, reading it, like there was a little bit more of a direct mirroring between her father scandal and her own. And this sort of like James L. Brooks working through Me Too and cancellation culture, whatever the fuck you want to talk it, in a way that I thought was more interesting than most people who have tried to tackle it because he's not talking about what's actually happening. He's talking about like a culture and like a media that has become more obsessed with narrativizing things and judging things and like putting people under a microscope.

• 49:39Griffin Newman?

  And this notion of like how terrible things can be downplayed and how innocuous things can become.

• 49:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 49:45Griffin Newman?

  A sticking point.

• 49:46Speaker 03

  And if you are in politics and you are, and I don't think he's saying like, we should just ignore sex scandals or whatever, but, but, but he is saying, if, if, if you are a politician trying to work in a system that is, where your job is that precarious, is it, does it behoove you to just get cynical and just do things that will keep you in office? Or do you still try to maintain your idealism? And, and she's ultimately failed by her, you know, by that. She doesn't succeed in politics because of it.

• 50:13Griffin Newman?

  See, like we're talking about this. It's sounding like an interesting movie. Like this is a hundred percent an interesting movie, but you're like, there are real fucking ideas in this and like tough questions with no answers that at times he dramatizes very well. And other times you're sort of like, what, what are you? When was the last time you went to a grocery store, you know?

• 50:34Speaker 03

  Well, it's like watching, um, I think I've said this even on this podcast, but like in the movie WE that Madonna directed where Abby Cornish goes, she's staying with Oscar Isaac in Brooklyn after leaving her husband. And she walks under the Marcy J stop, you know, the, the overpass and looks at like, there's a Hasidic person and a man selling like bird cages out of a store and a tear drips down her eye. And it's like, oh, Madonna has not talked to a real person in 15 years. Like it's a little bit of that with Brooks, but it's not as, um, it's not as like snooty or, um,

• 51:07Speaker 03

  I don't know. I don't mind it in his case. It's like your grandpa being like, oh, what's, you know, like kind of using old colloquialisms.

• 51:14Griffin Newman?

  No, how do you know feels like a movie made by someone who hasn't talked to a person in a decade? This is so much more.

• 51:20David Sims?

  Yes.

• 51:21Griffin Newman?

  Recognizable.

• 51:22David Sims?

  A thing that, and Brooks has talked about it in the couple of features I've seen written about this, you know, him for this movie, you know, and we must have talked about this back in the day, but his father abandoned the family before he was born. He found, he has like an older sister, but his father found out, James L. Brooks' father found out his mother was pregnant and literally like blue town. And he never knew his father after he was about 12, like he occasionally would see the dad, but had no really, and like Brooks has said, the Harrelson figure, very inspired by that. Like this sort of bad dad, you can't quite shake. And, and also what is, what's, what has James L. Brooks done? Been married a bunch of times, had kids with different women, gone through divorces,

• 52:04David Sims?

  you know, clearly not totally lived up to whatever promise he might've wanted.

• 52:08Griffin Newman?

  Just remarried last year.

• 52:10David Sims?

  And I'm sure they're getting it on and he's a stallion in the sack to this day. No, I have no idea.

• 52:16Speaker 03

  And when he comes, it goes.

• 52:20David Sims?

  After he comes.

• 52:21Speaker 03

  That was the crazy.

• 52:24Speaker 03

  Yes, him going immediately to bed.

• 52:25David Sims?

  God, that's. Hope to God, James L. Brooks is not listening to this podcast.

• 52:29Griffin Newman?

  Seeing that logo on the big screen in surround sound.

• 52:32David Sims?

  I yelled like Thanos at a pier.

• 52:35Griffin Newman?

  It was truly incredible.

• 52:37Speaker 03

  There is, there is little that is more Pavlovian than that feeling of like why, like me starting to love filmed entertainment. I mean, I know this wasn't filmed, but like, you know what I mean?

• 52:46Griffin Newman?

  No, this is filmed as art. Yes. Popular media. Yeah.

• 52:51David Sims?

  So yeah, he's still thinking about himself.

• 52:55Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 52:55David Sims?

  All these years later, which is interesting.

• 52:57Griffin Newman?

  Here's an interesting idea.

• 52:58David Sims?

  Thinking about other stuff.

• 52:59Griffin Newman?

  That I think is a little lost in the soup of this movie. And it's, it's sort of like when you're talking about what are the animating ideas behind these films at the different points in his career, right?

• 53:08David Sims?

  And like James L. Brooks, when he makes soup, when his movies are soup, it's like there's lobster, there's.

• 53:13Speaker 04

  Well, I was gonna say, this is more of a chowder.

• 53:16David Sims?

  Oh, that's what.

• 53:17Speaker 03

  It's a chowder.

• 53:17David Sims?

  Well, is it? Is it New England?

• 53:19Speaker 03

  OK, so I have thoughts about this because it was filmed in Providence.

• 53:23David Sims?

  I kept thinking it was like Michigan.

• 53:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, the Amtrak station is right across from the State House, so I've seen that State House many a time. But otherwise, it's set in a neighborhood of Providence that's not where my parents live, so I didn't recognize it. But what I do recognize as someone who grew up in Boston and spent, has spent his entire life living in the northeastern United States, there's no way you can fake that that's like Illinois. I really don't think. It's just topographically, the architecture.

• 53:46David Sims?

  I mean, it was, it was a chilly place, you know?

• 53:49Speaker 03

  It's a chilly place. It certainly, I mean, it's obviously not Santa Fe, but like, I just think that like, he's kind of dining out on the assumption that a state that looks like this is probably blue, but I don't have to say it is.

• 54:00David Sims?

  That's true. That's true.

• 54:01Speaker 03

  You know, so it's that kind of like broadly, like, is this Harrisburg, Pennsylvania? Could be, but that's maybe too much of a battleground state. So in a way, I'm like, just set it in Rhode Island then, because that is a solidly blue state with a lot of.

• 54:13David Sims?

  No, but then everyone would have to be like, you owe 50 grand to them, huh?

• 54:16Speaker 03

  Well, that's true. That's, there's a mafia problem.

• 54:19Griffin Newman?

  The fact that this movie was shot in the last five years and they didn't force him to film it in like Belgrade is even anomalous.

• 54:27David Sims?

  So good.

• 54:28Speaker 03

  Hello, Ella. I am your new press secretary.

• 54:31Griffin Newman?

  But you're just so used to these movies being like, this is a story about a specific American city, and we clearly shot it outside of the United States of America.

• 54:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, I mean, it definitely has. I love, I love a movie that, that like, is in a place that is, you know, like the gray seed logo, like, like recognizable to me. I have a Pavlovian response to that kind of home that like she lives in or, you know, those kind of streets and that particular State House. And I don't know, I kind of in a way like the anonymity of it, even if it forces Julie Kavner to say, and she's the governor of the state she was born in, you know? It's like, OK, that's not how you would phrase that, but.

• 55:07Griffin Newman?

  Jameson Brooks is very interested in career women, right? It is like, the majority of his movies are driven by, how does a woman have a career?

• 55:15Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 55:16Griffin Newman?

  And.

• 55:17Speaker 03

  I still don't know.

• 55:18Griffin Newman?

  I don't have.

• 55:19Speaker 03

  You know what? That's, most of the new podcast is me asking Alison that.

• 55:23Griffin Newman?

  How do you still have a career? But how do you know feels like what it was supposed to be was? Well, female athletes, even if you get to the top of your field, that's a really fucking low ceiling. And being a professional athlete is an occupation where there is an early retirement age. And if you are the best female softball player in the world and you're forced to retire at 36, what is the rest of your life? Because you don't have MLB millions to bank on.

• 55:50Speaker 04

  Is this thing on?

• 55:51Griffin Newman?

  Yes, there we go. We will talk about similar themes here in a couple of weeks.

• 55:57Speaker 03

  And I would argue that a volleyball career is even less lucrative than the softball. Although Olympics, there are Olympics.

• 56:04Griffin Newman?

  Olympics.

• 56:05Speaker 03

  Softball's at the Olympics too, but I don't think as many people watch it.

• 56:07Griffin Newman?

  But if someone is focused on their career and now they don't have much to take away from it and they're trying to figure out their love life, maybe at a time delay from other people who are having more of a work-life balance, feels like that's what that movie was supposed to be about. And then the fucking 2008 financial crash happens and James L. Brooks is like, actually, I want to talk about all of this. And that movie is sort of neither fish nor fowl because he can't decide what the main thing he cares about is.

• 56:29Speaker 03

  Well, it's, you know, it was, it's my theory about the newsroom and a number of other things that have come since then, which is like rich guys who don't have to do anything else project-wise, but they've been at dinner parties at their house and they're talking about an article they half-read in The Atlantic or The New Yorker. And they feel that they really have like, talked about it well to their friends at the dinner party and they're like, but wait, no one else in America heard that. Maybe I should make a TV show about what I thought about the last 18 months, you know? This has a slight tinge, or how do you know rather had that in spades? This only has a little bit of it.

• 57:03Griffin Newman?

  And like, I still have an overall deal at Sony. I have a bungalow. They would like for me to make something to justify the money they give me to maintain an office here.

• 57:12Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 57:12Griffin Newman?

  Like, stars still want to make my movies, you know? I got three A-listers.

• 57:16Speaker 03

  And I've got things to say about this thing from a few, you know?

• 57:19Griffin Newman?

  They'll let him get into this with a rougher draft. And this movie, it felt like they made him prove himself a little bit more while also perhaps giving him more latitude than most people would get, less latitude than he usually gets. But I think one of the big animating ideas here, David, is sort of what you're talking about, which is like, if you are so defined by the failure of your father and you try to live your life in the shadow of that, in opposition to that. Is there a kind of cruel irony of you ending up in a situation closer to him than you ever imagined you would, right?

• 57:52David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 57:53Griffin Newman?

  And that's the sort of-

• 57:54David Sims?

  Here I am, my marriage is failing, I'm about to deal with the scandal, yes.

• 57:59Griffin Newman?

  Right, that the circumstances are very different, the behavior is very different. Her father is defined by being someone who absolutely acted in the wrong and has taken no responsibility for it for decades, and she is the opposite. Why is this even a scandal? And I may be taking too much responsibility for it in a way that is not politically savvy. But am I also fucking up my marriage at the same time in the way my father did? Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

• 58:23David Sims?

  She also ended up with a guy that's kind of like her father, and that he's extremely selfish. Kind of a charming-ish selfish loser who's like clearly getting by on being kind of a cutie.

• 58:35Speaker 03

  And to the Rhode Island of it all, I kind of think that Loudon and Becky and Baker are supposed to be a little mob coded, like they have a pizza restaurant, but like, why cast those people?

• 58:44David Sims?

  I was about to say Loudon, who is an actor I really like, is not the right casting.

• 58:50Griffin Newman?

  I think he-

• 58:51David Sims?

  He's not bad at playing like a weaselly guy in this.

• 58:54Griffin Newman?

  But I'll say this, and it's not me blaming the performance.

• 58:57David Sims?

  No.

• 58:58Griffin Newman?

  I think this is, in a way, the most disastrous part of the movie.

• 59:01Speaker 03

  It's because that feels like the victim of-

• 59:04David Sims?

  It needs a lot more runway.

• 59:05Speaker 03

  It feels like it was the worst hit victim of the cuts.

• 59:09David Sims?

  Yes.

• 59:09Griffin Newman?

  Yes, absolutely, but I also think his performance-

• 59:12David Sims?

  You're making it sound like this is like a state budget.

• 59:15Speaker 03

  Well, I'm speaking in the argot of the film.

• 59:17David Sims?

  Needy children, by which I mean Jack Loudon, are being cut to the bone.

• 59:22Griffin Newman?

  Look, James L. Brooks gets exactly what he wants out of his actors. I'm not throwing Loudon under the bus here, even if he is obviously a man who exists at the absolute center of my dartboard, just for having the exact domestic situation I dream of.

• 59:35David Sims?

  Drew Griffin's jealous of Jack Loudon because he's married with a child with Saoirse.

• 59:39Speaker 03

  You know who's a big Jack Loudon fan is Saoirse Ronan, is Bobby Fink, so he has a Saoirse Ronan dartboard.

• 59:46Griffin Newman?

  We need to team up.

• 59:47David Sims?

  That harpy!

• 59:49Speaker 03

  Two podcasters arrested in bizarre murder plot that actually, if you think about it, made no sense because-

• 59:54David Sims?

  What was there to put in here?

• 59:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:57Griffin Newman?

  No, there is some broad comedy where Bobby and I are trying to figure out how to make them think that they're breaking up of their own wish. But switch with us.

• 1:00:06Griffin Newman?

  And the Jack London switch orientations.

• 1:00:08Speaker 03

  Unfortunately, Bobby's plotline would involve some sort of clock recording conversion therapy.

• 1:00:13Griffin Newman?

  Reprogram.

• 1:00:14David Sims?

  We don't know. Maybe Jack likes everybody.

• 1:00:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, we don't. It's true. Come on the podcast.

• 1:00:18David Sims?

  Jack, address my, address me.

• 1:00:21Griffin Newman?

  I'm predisposed to be bone deep jealous of this man's existence, right? Anytime he shows up in a movie, I'm like, him? Fuck. Right. I don't actually blame him for this performance. I think James L. Brooks really misdirected him. I think it's really unbalanced and, and the limiting of the material hurts it a lot. But it's also like, I don't think the movie ever makes a compelling case for why she was with him in the first place. And reading the script, I felt a little bit of tension in, is this guy hiding something? This guy is so good at charming people in a way that feels genuine. He's a little too likeable where what's that covering up?

• 1:01:03Griffin Newman?

  And he's kind of guileless and it takes a while to be like, no, he's strategic about what he's doing here. And this movie, he's so slippery from the moment you like, see him kissing fucking Jamie Lee Curtis's hand as a teenager.

• 1:01:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, exactly. And I also think that, you know, I don't know if you guys watched The Diplomat, but like,

• 1:01:21David Sims?

  I'm just, I do watch The Diplomat. I'm just remembering the teenage stuff. Sorry.

• 1:01:25Speaker 03

  Oh, well, we, we should actually talk about that, but just real quick, like the Bradley Woodford plays, um,

• 1:01:30David Sims?

  Alison Janney.

• 1:01:31Speaker 03

  Alison Janney's husband. So he's the, the first husband and you know, oh, it's a man doing that role. You know, I guess he's the Doug Emhoff. But I also, but also like Selena Meyer's husband in The Beeb or her ex-husband. I think that this role suffers because I'm like, I've seen this before recently.

• 1:01:47Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:01:47Speaker 03

  You know?

• 1:01:48David Sims?

  I think I could sort of buy that she ended up with this guy because she's such driven person, she's got her career, that he just like, is like, yeah, he's nice. And like, that solves that part of my life to have this kind of nice guy all sewn up and I don't have to worry about it, but that needs more.

• 1:02:06Griffin Newman?

  I don't think they sell him being nice enough. I think the movie needs to rest on the idea that she is a person of such clear unbeatable morals that her not being able to see him for what he is, and I understand people get blinded by certain things and whatever, but I'm just like, he feels like a Scooby Doo villain from the beginning.

• 1:02:25Speaker 03

  I also think that in a way, not to like, try to make a movie that doesn't exist, but like, I do think in a way that if you wanted to complicate Ella's character a little further, you could be like, there was some cynicism in her getting married so young because she was like, I can't achieve my political ambitions as a single woman.

• 1:02:41Griffin Newman?

  I think that's a better way to frame it.

• 1:02:43David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:43Griffin Newman?

  If it was like-

• 1:02:44David Sims?

  No one quite says anything like that.

• 1:02:46Griffin Newman?

  And their flashbacks seemingly cut out, I believe, that establish more the bedrock of what they're early like. You know, this was like-

• 1:02:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:02:54Griffin Newman?

  Childhood sweethearts, basically.

• 1:02:56Speaker 03

  And we're gonna take over the world together and, you know-

• 1:02:58Griffin Newman?

  Totally. And like, what soured along the way, and instead you get like, one scene of him being too slick as a teenager?

• 1:03:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:04Griffin Newman?

  And then you're like, this guy sucks.

• 1:03:06Speaker 03

  In, in A Crazy Wig too, David. It's not just Woody who wears a crazy wig.

• 1:03:09David Sims?

  And it's wigs, the jackets.

• 1:03:11Griffin Newman?

  Wiggy movie. But this is also a problem with, the film has to rest on the idea that she made a stupid choice that is now jeopardizing her ability to actually affect change in the world that was driven by, I can't let my marriage fall apart.

• 1:03:27David Sims?

  Right. That she was trying to keep him happy.

• 1:03:30Griffin Newman?

  That it's not a marriage of convenience, that it's not a, you know your role, you play the part of the good upstanding guy, that she's like, I need to reorganize my whole life to make sure that I'm giving him enough attention.

• 1:03:43Speaker 03

  Which is that a commentary on how women in the workplace are treated? Or is that in some ways a dim view of a woman in the workplace? You know, I don't know.

• 1:03:49Griffin Newman?

  We're in the fucking J L B soup now. We're in the chowder where you're like, things in this movie that feel dramatically sloppy if you actually start pulling apart, what's he trying to say here? You're like, this is an interesting thing to talk about.

• 1:04:00Speaker 03

  Right. Well, I just got a piece of potato.

• 1:04:02Griffin Newman?

  He still has like, powers of observation, even if he can't totally stick the landing on all of them. Like, some of them, he sticks the landing but not the takeoff. You know? It's like such an odd mix.

• 1:04:13David Sims?

  I just wanna shout out Jack Loudon on Slow Horses. Do you watch, do you watch Slow Horses?

• 1:04:17Speaker 03

  I have not seen it since the first season.

• 1:04:19David Sims?

  In Slow Horses, Gary Oldman plays, you know, the farting spy. And like, the whole-

• 1:04:26David Sims?

  Well, he plays like the head of this like shitty division of MI5, like the British spy, you know, division, right? And the whole thing is that he's so bedraggled and he's farting all the time and drinking and he's this like garbage man. But it's, as you watch the show, you realize like, oh, right. It's a little bit of an act. Like, he knows this means no one takes him seriously. He's smart.

• 1:04:46Griffin Newman?

  It's an anti-smiley.

• 1:04:48David Sims?

  He uses it to kind of get people, you know, off. And then Jack Loudon plays this spy who ends up in the shitty division because he's the opposite. He can't help but enter a situation like waving a gun around, being like, I am a spy. I can save the day. I can save the day. And he's so good at that.

• 1:05:07Griffin Newman?

  I admittedly have not seen a ton of his work.

• 1:05:09David Sims?

  Oh, really? You haven't seen, um, well.

• 1:05:14Griffin Newman?

  My policeman, isn't that him? No.

• 1:05:16David Sims?

  No, that was Harry Styles.

• 1:05:18Griffin Newman?

  What's the one I'm thinking of? That wasn't called 76, but was called 87 or?

• 1:05:23David Sims?

  Uh, if you're talking about the film 76, which is a film. Yeah. No, that's not what you're talking about. Uh, what was that? I know, is it 74?

• 1:05:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes, that's.

• 1:05:32David Sims?

  That's not him.

• 1:05:33Griffin Newman?

  Jesus.

• 1:05:34David Sims?

  71.

• 1:05:35Griffin Newman?

  Is that him?

• 1:05:35David Sims?

  We got there. No, it's Jack O'Connell. That you're talking about the sort of IRA drama movie. Yeah, that was Jack O'Connell.

• 1:05:41Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 1:05:41David Sims?

  Jack Loudon, uh, emerged. I mean, he, you know, he's in, uh, little parts in British movies and stuff.

• 1:05:48Griffin Newman?

  Small part in Dunkirk.

• 1:05:49David Sims?

  Uh, he's in Dunkirk.

• 1:05:51Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:51David Sims?

  I would say more than a small part. In Dunkirk, it was kind of like, who's that fucking hottie driving a plane? Like alongside, uh, you know, uh, Tom Hardy.

• 1:06:00Griffin Newman?

  Hardy, okay.

• 1:06:01David Sims?

  Right? And then he parachutes.

• 1:06:03Griffin Newman?

  Just me, he is in 71, he's just not the lead.

• 1:06:05David Sims?

  Oh, you're right. He will, I mean, he's not even in the, like, he's the, like, 17th lead. Jack O'Connell's the lead of that movie.

• 1:06:13Griffin Newman?

  Who's that fucking hottie driving a plane is what I said at the end of Train Dream.

• 1:06:19David Sims?

  That's nice. Nice to say that about Joel.

• 1:06:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, he's hot.

• 1:06:23David Sims?

  He's in Fighting With My Family, which you have seen.

• 1:06:25Griffin Newman?

  Oh, yeah. And I

• 1:06:26David Sims?

  And he's good.

• 1:06:27Griffin Newman?

  I like that movie a lot, and he's, I think, quite good in it.

• 1:06:29David Sims?

  Playing her brother, who's like, you know, the original aspiring wrestler.

• 1:06:34Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:06:34David Sims?

  I saw that.

• 1:06:35Griffin Newman?

  But like, I never saw Denial. I didn't see the War and Peace mini-series.

• 1:06:39David Sims?

  No, I never saw that.

• 1:06:40Griffin Newman?

  I didn't see Mary Queen of Scots.

• 1:06:42David Sims?

  He's fine in that. That's where he met, uh, Saoirse, obviously. He's, he's a

• 1:06:46Griffin Newman?

  If you can get it.

• 1:06:47David Sims?

  Right. Uh, he's somewhat villainous in that.

• 1:06:50Griffin Newman?

  I didn't see Benediction, uh, embarrassingly.

• 1:06:52David Sims?

  Benediction is the thing where you're like, okay, so this guy's like

• 1:06:56Griffin Newman?

  I know that's a blind spot.

• 1:06:57Speaker 03

  And it has this like, extra sadness or sweetness to it because it was Terrence Davies, like

• 1:07:01David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:07:02Speaker 03

  Re-engaging with gay stuff for the first time in a long time, and then he died and he fought, but he finally did it and like, yeah.

• 1:07:07David Sims?

  Also, it's like, oh, Terrence Davies made a movie about Siegfried Sassoon, who was a British World War One veteran who was a poet. And you're like, oh, okay. So is this is like, is this like an elegiac sad movie?

• 1:07:17Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:07:17David Sims?

  No, no, no. It is about gay guys talking shit. Like, that is most of the movie.

• 1:07:21Speaker 03

  It's the cattiest movie of that year.

• 1:07:23David Sims?

  They are all so mean.

• 1:07:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:25David Sims?

  But he's really good in that.

• 1:07:27Griffin Newman?

  He plays Sauron in The Rings of Power?

• 1:07:29David Sims?

  Only in one episode. He's the original Sauron, because the whole thing with Sauron is that he keeps turning into new hotties to distract people.

• 1:07:36Griffin Newman?

  So he's young Sauron who fucks?

• 1:07:37David Sims?

  Well, I mean, not that the old, so the new Sauron is, they're all young and hot, but yes, you know, Sauron keeps, you know, being like, hi, I'm just a

• 1:07:45Griffin Newman?

  Got it.

• 1:07:45David Sims?

  I'm a cool guy.

• 1:07:46Speaker 03

  See on Instagram?

• 1:07:47David Sims?

  I, I He is on Instagram. Wait, oh, Fran Hoffner highly recommends Jack Loudon.

• 1:07:52Speaker 03

  Oh, I was talking about Sauron, but okay, I'll talk to

• 1:07:54Griffin Newman?

  He's sort of your type.

• 1:07:56David Sims?

  Wow, Sauron really likes the Netflix deal.

• 1:07:58Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:00Speaker 03

  Well, I guess that tracks.

• 1:08:01Griffin Newman?

  But yeah, a lot of the big ones I've missed, and I know he's always on these lists of like, these are the exciting young actors.

• 1:08:07David Sims?

  Is the thing, right, that he's consistently been doing.

• 1:08:09Griffin Newman?

  He's always, I feel like, one of these shortlisted guys for like, the big parts that are coming up.

• 1:08:13David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:08:14Griffin Newman?

  I do feel like he's good at earnestness, and he's bad casting in this for that reason.

• 1:08:20David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:21Griffin Newman?

  Where him trying to play a little too slick comes off as like, transparently un-untrustworthy.

• 1:08:28Speaker 03

  And I don't want to sound limiting, but I do think it's hard, and I think that Emma Mackey suffers from this too. It can be hard to do comedy while also trying to juggle an accent.

• 1:08:37Griffin Newman?

  Yup.

• 1:08:41Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:08:42David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:42Griffin Newman?

  This episode is brought to you by XYZ Films and the acclaimed new documentary Capturing Bigfoot.

• 1:08:48David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 1:08:48Griffin Newman?

  On October 20th, 1967, Roger Patterson captured 59 seconds of film showing a creature walking through the Northern California woods. I wonder if you can log that on Letterboxd?

• 1:08:59David Sims?

  It is an iconic video.

• 1:09:00Griffin Newman?

  Footage that became the most analyzed and debated in history. Fifty-nine years later, a reel of 16-millimeter film discovered in a safe changes everything.

• 1:09:10David Sims?

  Wow.

• 1:09:10Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot reveals the untold story behind the world's greatest mystery, told for the first time by Patterson's own son and the people who were there. This is a story about family legacy, broken friendships, and how far people will go to protect a secret.

• 1:09:23David Sims?

  Of course, you've got the classic, what they call Patterson Gimlin film everyone knows of Bigfoot out in the woods, like the famous Bigfoot picture. This has other stuff shot by him that no one's ever seen. That's what makes this movie different.

• 1:09:35Griffin Newman?

  But we're also talking brand-new 4K scans of the original film taken from the Patterson family archives that some historians have called "the best rendering of the footage ever seen."

• 1:09:44David Sims?

  I feel like we've all seen that footage as like grainy.

• 1:09:47Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:09:47David Sims?

  You know, that you see, you know, whatever. You see it in a documentary for two seconds. But this is restoring it and making it look much more clear.

• 1:09:54Griffin Newman?

  There's also a companion podcast, the Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, which goes deeper into the legend and lore of Bigfoot and the Patterson Gimlin film, featuring weekly episodes with experts in cryptozoology, urban legends, and filmmaking.

• 1:10:08David Sims?

  I'm something of an expert in cryptozoology.

• 1:10:10Griffin Newman?

  Well, of course, yes, but that's more of a hobby.

• 1:10:12David Sims?

  Yeah, this podcast, Capturing Bigfoot Podcast, is hosted by the director of the film, Mark Evans, and it's available for free on YouTube and Spotify with exclusive episodes and content available on Patreon to members of the Capturing Bigfoot Society.

• 1:10:28Griffin Newman?

  Capturing Bigfoot is now available to rent or own on Amazon Prime Video. Learn more about Capturing Bigfoot at capturingbigfoot.com.

• 1:10:44Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:10:44David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:10:45Griffin Newman?

  He lurks in shadow. He slips into dreams. He casts no reflection. Audible presents Bram Stoker's Dracula, a new full cast audio thriller starring Ella Purnell as Mina Harker, Jonathan Bailey as Dracula, and an A-list cast, including Maggie Gyllenhaal as Van Helsing, Amy Lou Wood as Lucy, David Johnson as Dr. Seward, and many more. That is an all-star cast.

• 1:11:06David Sims?

  Yeah, this new full cast thriller locks Mina Harker in a battle of minds with the Count. When Mina's fiance Jonathan Harker, Louis Partridge, vanishes in Transylvania, Mina pieces together letters, diary entries, and chilling testimony to hunt the predator stalking those she loves, only to discover Dracula's already hunting her.

• 1:11:26Griffin Newman?

  Joined by the enigmatic Van Helsing, Mina and a small fearless band race against time to stop this ancient terror. Using her intellect, her resolve, and a gift for drawing the unseen lines between clues, Mina may just hold the key to bring down the Count if he hasn't already found his way inside her mind.

• 1:11:42David Sims?

  Featuring a haunting original score by Elon Eschery and a spatial dolby-atmos sound design, Audible's Dracula invites you to welcome literature's most shadowy figure into your home. Feel the terror of being hunted and the thrill of the hunt. Don't miss this year's best new audio thriller, Bram Stoker's Dracula, Audible's new full cast original adaptation. Written by Robin Ahern, now on Audible. Listen to the darkness. Go to audible.com/ListenToDracula.

• 1:12:16Griffin Newman?

  David?

• 1:12:16David Sims?

  Yes?

• 1:12:17Griffin Newman?

  People cut the cord. Means the death of the repeat, the rerun. But where do repeats still exist? In your closet.

• 1:12:26David Sims?

  Ah, the sweater that goes with everything, Griffin. The tea you somehow always reach for first?

• 1:12:31Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's, we know the feeling.

• 1:12:33David Sims?

  Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy. That's what Quince does best.

• 1:12:36Griffin Newman?

  Quince.

• 1:12:37David Sims?

  This is true for me. I will say I go to Quince. I buy a thing like a polo shirt, a sweater, whatever. And I'm like, oh, I like that. Guess I'll get a bunch more because now that's what I'm gonna put on.

• 1:12:47Griffin Newman?

  Quince focuses on high quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton and merino wool. The styles are timeless, versatile and designed to become the dependable pieces you reach for day after day.

• 1:13:02David Sims?

  Love it. They got those 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters. Those start at just $60.

• 1:13:06Griffin Newman?

  I love those.

• 1:13:07David Sims?

  Giving you the softness and quality you'd expect from a luxury brand without that luxury price tag. And look, it's starting to get chillier. You're gonna need layers, right? How about you just do Quince for every layer, huh?

• 1:13:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:20David Sims?

  Jacket, sweater, shirt.

• 1:13:22Griffin Newman?

  David, you know what I love?

• 1:13:23David Sims?

  What?

• 1:13:23Griffin Newman?

  The ultimate commuter pants.

• 1:13:25David Sims?

  Oh.

• 1:13:26Griffin Newman?

  Cause I'm commuting constantly.

• 1:13:28David Sims?

  Beep beep.

• 1:13:29Griffin Newman?

  Yep, that's me. David, I like these. They're just clean. They're comfortable. They got the right amount of pockets.

• 1:13:35David Sims?

  Wow. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was blank check. It's the best way to support the show.

• 1:14:00David Sims?

  So here's my question. Who is Emma Mackey? Who is this?

• 1:14:04Griffin Newman?

  Sex Education.

• 1:14:05David Sims?

  Right, which I've never seen that.

• 1:14:06Griffin Newman?

  Me neither.

• 1:14:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, so basically.

• 1:14:08David Sims?

  That's Asa Butterfield?

• 1:14:09Speaker 03

  Margot Robbie got a Temu clone made and.

• 1:14:13Griffin Newman?

  That's always been the thing that, oh, why is, how is there this other actress that looks that much like her? Sex Education is her main project and that has run for like fucking five or six seasons?

• 1:14:24David Sims?

  Uh, I think it might've sort of petered, you know, you know how these, these hit Netflix shows.

• 1:14:28Speaker 03

  It ran for like five, I think. I think.

• 1:14:29David Sims?

  Four seasons.

• 1:14:30Speaker 03

  Four, okay.

• 1:14:31David Sims?

  But I, you know, these Netflix shows, they kind of peter out.

• 1:14:33Griffin Newman?

  I also feel like there's a lot of cast turning on that show, but she basically stayed as one of the consistent elements for a while.

• 1:14:39David Sims?

  She's, uh, you know, all the seasons along with Asa Butterfield and Amy Lou Wood.

• 1:14:44Griffin Newman?

  Uh huh.

• 1:14:44David Sims?

  Who's that, and you know, um, Gillian Anderson and Doctor Who's in there and.

• 1:14:51David Sims?

  You know, lots of people and they're learning sex education.

• 1:14:55Speaker 03

  And she and Emma Mackie is also in Babylon with Marco Robbie? Or is Emma Mackie?

• 1:15:02Griffin Newman?

  It's Samara Weaving, who's the other one they say has the same face as them. So she's in Babylon as fake Robbie and Emma Mackie is in Barbie as fake Barbie.

• 1:15:12Speaker 03

  Right, okay.

• 1:15:12David Sims?

  Right. I never saw the Emily Bronte movie.

• 1:15:15Griffin Newman?

  Is that Deirdre O'Connell?

• 1:15:17David Sims?

  It was Frances O'Connor.

• 1:15:19Griffin Newman?

  That's what I mean. I'm sorry.

• 1:15:20Speaker 03

  I wish it was Deirdre O'Connell. That'd be great.

• 1:15:22David Sims?

  I never saw.

• 1:15:25Griffin Newman?

  She's in Death on the Nile, apparently.

• 1:15:26David Sims?

  I did see that, but I'm gonna be honest with you guys. That one kind of baffles me.

• 1:15:31Speaker 03

  I think she's actually kind of a big part in Death on the Nile.

• 1:15:34David Sims?

  She might be. She's like the young lover.

• 1:15:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:36David Sims?

  But I remember this part where one of the actresses says something about the Nile and champagne.

• 1:15:41Griffin Newman?

  I'll say this. She has very few credits. Like you actually look at it and it's like, her first movie is 2020. She's in one, two, three, four, five, six, seven movies total.

• 1:15:53David Sims?

  She's 29 years old. Like she's playing younger than Ella McCay. And I would say it reads.

• 1:15:59Griffin Newman?

  This was shot two years ago. I mean, this goes back to my original question of who are they casting as the lead? This is built to be a Deborah Winger, Holly Hunter type thing, but this movie has the three timelines. Well over 50% of the movie is her in her mid 30s.

• 1:16:17David Sims?

  Yeah, I think.

• 1:16:18Griffin Newman?

  And then there's a little bit of teen and a little bit of early 20s and they cut most of the early 20s stuff out. There was more college stuff in the script I read.

• 1:16:25Speaker 03

  Well, that's good because at, at present, there is already way too much flashback stuff because it just looks so crazy.

• 1:16:31David Sims?

  I think all the flashback stuff should go, except for the stuff at the beginning.

• 1:16:35Griffin Newman?

  The opening is all you need.

• 1:16:36David Sims?

  Which is really profound, like and really got me.

• 1:16:39Griffin Newman?

  But in the script I read, that stuff was circled back to many times. There was more sort of going back and forth. And a part of what I think is lost, I will say, even though I don't think it worked dramatically, part of what the movie doesn't communicate well is that the idea of the Woody Harrelson scandal is that it became a news story.

• 1:17:00David Sims?

  Which makes you you get us the briefest sense of that, that like, he's about to go face the media.

• 1:17:05Griffin Newman?

  That he.

• 1:17:06David Sims?

  And like, that's what's happening in the first scene that like, that the family needs to prepare for on top of the that he's done something.

• 1:17:12Griffin Newman?

  Monica Gate.

• 1:17:13David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:17:13Griffin Newman?

  But it was the the kind of thing that became a weird news story that captured people for a couple of weeks of like, oh, this high level person was doing all this bad shit. And so it's not like he's still remembered by name necessarily, but like, the level of exposure and attention in her childhood, or, you know, certainly it's starting in her teen years, has like, absolutely affected the way this person behaves in every area in opposition to it, and that she's aware of the fact that this legacy is attached to her, that people know her as the daughter of that guy, as she is now fighting to try to like, fix our broken culture. And I I think that doesn't totally come across in the movie. Like, her dad sucks, and then she grows up.

• 1:17:55Speaker 03

  Well, because the dad stuff feels like we're taking brief detours to a different movie that's about that.

• 1:18:01Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:18:01Speaker 03

  Where Woody Harrelson is a much bigger part, and Jamie Lee Curtis's relationship to everybody becomes much more apparent than it is in this version of the movie.

• 1:18:09Griffin Newman?

  Dad stuff also feels way cut down.

• 1:18:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:18:11Griffin Newman?

  It was clearer that it was a sort of like, making the amends, I need you to grant me this because I'm trying to forgive myself and my life.

• 1:18:21Speaker 03

  I also think that there would be, if there were, if you fleshed that dad character, that dynamic out more, that backstory out more, that would explain some of Ella's goody two shoesism.

• 1:18:31Griffin Newman?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:18:32Speaker 03

  That throwaway line about how she vehemently opposed legalizing marijuana.

• 1:18:37Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:18:37Speaker 03

  That was one of the the the planks of her platform when she ran, is like, wait, what?

• 1:18:42David Sims?

  No, that totally tracked to me because of the 2008-ness. It's like, that's how much the world has changed, that that was considered so radical back then.

• 1:18:49Griffin Newman?

  A progressive Democrat would have run on that.

• 1:18:52David Sims?

  No one fucking supported legalizing weed in 2008. Like, it was truly seen as like, you're gonna say. Like a

• 1:18:57Griffin Newman?

  You're gonna libertarian.

• 1:18:58David Sims?

  Whacked out hippie or whatever.

• 1:19:00Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:00David Sims?

  God, do you remember, I, I watch it all the time when the former governor of New Mexico, who's a Republican who became a libertarian, fucking forget his name, ran for like the Libertarian presidential nomination, I think in 2016. And he's at like the Libertarian.

• 1:19:16Griffin Newman?

  Gary Johnson?

• 1:19:16David Sims?

  Yeah, Gary Johnson.

• 1:19:17Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:18David Sims?

  Uh, and he's at the Libertarian Party's like presidential debate, right? With like the other wackos.

• 1:19:23Griffin Newman?

  Which is just people milling around or screaming.

• 1:19:25David Sims?

  And someone, someone's like, uh, the next question is, do you support, um, you know, people being licensed to drive, right? And like, it goes from like, every, it's like, uh, no, like, what, what, what next? A license to make toast? So, you know, it's like they go through and the Gary Johnson's like, uh, I mean, I think maybe you should have to perform some sort of proficiency to learn. And everyone's like, boo.

• 1:19:48Griffin Newman?

  There's no winning with that crap.

• 1:19:52David Sims?

  What am I doing?

• 1:19:52Griffin Newman?

  What am I supposed to say here?

• 1:19:54Speaker 04

  He gets interrupted by a giant bullet.

• 1:19:56Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:00David Sims?

  Sorry.

• 1:20:01Griffin Newman?

  I know.

• 1:20:01David Sims?

  It's just so funny.

• 1:20:02Griffin Newman?

  I think you're right, though, that like, what you don't get in this movie is that she has so wildly overcorrected for her father.

• 1:20:10David Sims?

  Which is why no one can stand her.

• 1:20:12Griffin Newman?

  That's exactly. It's become rigid and, and. And it's not just experiential, but it's also like her trying to fight the optics of how she's going to be perceived every time she enters a room where it's like, do you know that she's the daughter of that guy who 20 years ago?

• 1:20:25David Sims?

  And not just that, but that she's young, she's this prodigy, she needs to overcompensate for being a young prodigy and all that.

• 1:20:33Griffin Newman?

  It shaped her moral worldview. And then on top of that, it shaped a defensiveness in how she lives in the world to try to be able to push her moral worldview through without ever bending.

• 1:20:45David Sims?

  Albert Brooks is too old to play her dad, right?

• 1:20:48Griffin Newman?

  When I.

• 1:20:48David Sims?

  But is there a world, right, where it makes sense that to have Brooks be the dad and Harrelson be the governor?

• 1:20:53Griffin Newman?

  I read the script. They announced the cast.

• 1:20:55David Sims?

  They announced the cast.

• 1:20:55Griffin Newman?

  I went, holy shit, Albert Brooks is gonna crush it as the dad.

• 1:20:59David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:20:59Griffin Newman?

  And Harrelson makes a lot of sense.

• 1:21:01David Sims?

  Makes a ton of sense as a kind of like folksy governor people like.

• 1:21:04Griffin Newman?

  And people like him, but also there's an element of like.

• 1:21:06David Sims?

  He's kind of.

• 1:21:07Griffin Newman?

  Has he leaned a little too much into showman and he's just kind of like a corporate politician now and whatever?

• 1:21:12Speaker 03

  I don't think Brooks is bad in this movie.

• 1:21:13Griffin Newman?

  I think Brooks is actually quite good.

• 1:21:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, and he nails all his scenes, but he's a little bit, I was kind of like, why do people vote for him? He just kind of seems boring. Like, he's fine.

• 1:21:22Griffin Newman?

  Here's another thing that I liked about the idea of Brooks playing this part, not just that obviously, like, it's an inverse of his broadcast news character, but that it's almost like a souring of that guy. In that, like, I think the Jack Loudon character is an unsuccessful attempt to make another William Hurt, right? Where you're like, ultimately, this guy is a problem.

• 1:21:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:45Griffin Newman?

  And yet, it's really hard to resist his charms.

• 1:21:48Speaker 03

  Or a little bit Jeff Daniels in terms of a nearman kind of.

• 1:21:51Griffin Newman?

  Exactly. No, I think truly.

• 1:21:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:52Griffin Newman?

  And watching it, I was like, who could have pulled this off? He's obviously never gonna make this career move at this point in his arc. But like, if it's Glenn Powell, you know?

• 1:22:03Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 1:22:04Griffin Newman?

  Glenn Powell is so good at playing kind of a shitbag and be like, oh god, but I can't fucking hate this guy. Which is what you need him to be that I don't think Loudon's supplying.

• 1:22:11Speaker 03

  The kind of guy who would genuinely think that even though his wife is lieutenant governor, well now governor, that he's actually the real celebrity.

• 1:22:18Griffin Newman?

  Yes. And without making any larger statement about this, you put Woody Harrelson in this type of role, and as you've said many times on this podcast, David, you're a slut for Woody. Woody rules.

• 1:22:27Speaker 03

  I love him!

• 1:22:28Griffin Newman?

  He's so much fun. Almost anytime he shows up in anything. And yet, introduced in this movie, you're like, of course this guy's fucking everyone. There's no tension to that, right? Like, the whole Woody Harrelson thing is like, come on, what are you gonna do? You mad at me? I like fucking things.

• 1:22:42Speaker 03

  There's no shock and disgrace there, but with Brooks.

• 1:22:45Griffin Newman?

  With Brooks, it would be this kind of warping of a broadcast news type guy who in ascending to career power

• 1:22:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:54Griffin Newman?

  Takes

• 1:22:54Speaker 03

  Abused it.

• 1:22:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, yeah. Out of like vindictiveness of women used to never pay attention to me, right?

• 1:23:00Speaker 03

  I think part of the problem with a lot of this in general is that, like, I think the movie is afraid of becoming too dark and cynical, even though it is set in the most dark and cynical, like, well, the beginning of a really dark and cynical era, but also just like politics in general since forever have been that way.

• 1:23:17Griffin Newman?

  And that the movie is basically about that battle between cynicism and optimism.

• 1:23:21Speaker 03

  But I don't think we see nearly enough of the cynicism, of the true cynicism.

• 1:23:24Griffin Newman?

  You have the Julie Kavner line early on where she's like, this story is set in 2008. Remember when people still used to get along?

• 1:23:30Speaker 03

  It's like, well, what are you talking about? I mean, like.

• 1:23:33Griffin Newman?

  It's a glib line.

• 1:23:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:34Griffin Newman?

  It's overly reductive, but it also feels like part of why he chose to set it then. I, I think he once again wanted to talk about the fallout of the financial collapse.

• 1:23:45Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 1:23:45Griffin Newman?

  And what that did to the citizens of this country and the politicians who were not thinking about them enough.

• 1:23:51Speaker 03

  I think he also is making some comment on, on Clinton where he's like, oh, she had all these policy ideas, but like she wasn't likeable enough. And it's like, sure, that's maybe true, but also that's not why she lost that, her, that primary.

• 1:24:05Griffin Newman?

  Also an Obama optimism of, is this guy going to come in and actually fix everything? And then you're like, he starts to play the game really hard and make some terrible decisions. Yeah.

• 1:24:15David Sims?

  It's this fantasy of what she does of like, rather than play the game, she cuts the deal of like, okay, I'll go away if you, and we don't really know what this is, but like, do everything I want legislatively happen.

• 1:24:30Griffin Newman?

  A thing that was also very spelled out in the script and has long dialogue scenes where she's like going over what the points are. And everyone's being like, oh my God, why are you so annoying about this?

• 1:24:39David Sims?

  That in the movie.

• 1:24:39Griffin Newman?

  There is, but it, it gets a little yada, yada, yada.

• 1:24:42Speaker 03

  Imagine if this movie was called Wonkette.

• 1:24:44David Sims?

  I mean, that's true. But like, I found the scenes where she's like, eh, you know, excitedly trying to explain policy to whoever. Like the idea is cute of like everyone being like, you know, oh Ella, yes, yes.

• 1:25:00Griffin Newman?

  I think it needs more of that, of the idea of like, what is she actually?

• 1:25:03David Sims?

  So boring. Like it's just.

• 1:25:05Griffin Newman?

  This is Brooke shit where he's like, I want like five minutes of policy discussion that Fox was clearly like, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut.

• 1:25:14David Sims?

  I just think it's boring. Like it's just like.

• 1:25:18David Sims?

  You know, like, it's what the characters don't like. She's haranguing you where you're like, yeah, I agree. It's good to help moms or it's good to have dentists or whatever, you know, like.

• 1:25:27Griffin Newman?

  It's also what's tricky about this part is it's, it's going for the Holly Hunter thing of like, God, she is so annoying.

• 1:25:34David Sims?

  Megatepe.

• 1:25:35Griffin Newman?

  Why can't she fucking get out of her own way with this shit? And yet you're still on her side?

• 1:25:39David Sims?

  I liked the gag of, you know, the legislative meeting where it's like the sun has set and everyone's asleep. And she's like, and then we're gonna do this, you know? Like, like that worked for me.

• 1:25:49Griffin Newman?

  Him passing the note saying, mention me and then please don't mention me.

• 1:25:52David Sims?

  That was funny.

• 1:25:52Speaker 03

  That's the best bit in the whole movie.

• 1:25:54Griffin Newman?

  There's stuff like that that's good, but I think casting a 27 year old for this movie is fundamentally a mistake.

• 1:25:59David Sims?

  Okay, who should he have cast?

• 1:26:01Griffin Newman?

  I was doing this mental exercise, right? And I, I always think about like the generation of actresses who basically didn't get to have a movie like this.

• 1:26:10David Sims?

  Like Emma Stone.

• 1:26:11Griffin Newman?

  Who seemed tailor made for it.

• 1:26:12David Sims?

  Although Emma Stone got more comedies than some.

• 1:26:15Griffin Newman?

  But I mean, thinking about the people who truly didn't get anything close to this. I was like, like Alison Brie, Gillian Jacobs.

• 1:26:21Speaker 03

  Gillian Jacobs sprang to mind you.

• 1:26:22Griffin Newman?

  Friend of the podcast, Tatiana Mizlani. Like people who are like both heavyweight dramatic actors and have incredible comedic touches.

• 1:26:30David Sims?

  But like so much of their best work had to be on TV.

• 1:26:32Griffin Newman?

  Can do screwball with depth, which is what you really want. You know, you need someone who's like got a double barrel shotgun of like tonal control.

• 1:26:40Speaker 03

  And I think that McKay is a good actor, but I think that she seems overwhelmed by the juggling that this thing requires.

• 1:26:47David Sims?

  Wow, but Ella McKay is overwhelmed. Have you seen the day she's having?

• 1:26:52Griffin Newman?

  But also, why is this movie casting based on like, well, she'll be more believable as a teenager than if we hire someone in her late 30s?

• 1:26:58David Sims?

  Is that why they did that?

• 1:27:00Griffin Newman?

  I truly think it has to be. I truly, that, that was, I'll just say, that was the explanation I got when they cast her.

• 1:27:07David Sims?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:27:07Speaker 03

  And just cast a younger actor to play the younger person.

• 1:27:10Griffin Newman?

  Truly, yes.

• 1:27:11Speaker 03

  Whatever.

• 1:27:11Griffin Newman?

  And it was like, well, the brother has to be three different actors at different ages or whatever. But they want one person to play her in all the scenes, which I guess makes more sense if there's more of those other scenes. But obviously they should have limited those scenes at the script level.

• 1:27:24David Sims?

  Look, you, I clearly you didn't like Emma Mackey.

• 1:27:27Griffin Newman?

  I thought she was okay.

• 1:27:28David Sims?

  I was kind of quite turned by her.

• 1:27:30Speaker 03

  Why do I keep saying McKay?

• 1:27:32Griffin Newman?

  Cause the movie's called Ella McKay.

• 1:27:33Speaker 03

  Right, okay.

• 1:27:35Griffin Newman?

  I, I thought she was all right. I just think the movie is putting an unfair. Kind of a task on her shoulders.

• 1:27:43Speaker 03

  It's a lot. It's big. I mean, look, it crushed a Titan like Taya Leone.

• 1:27:47Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:48Speaker 03

  Granted, a very different kind of part, but like, but no, but it's big, verbose. Like, you have to hold a lot of ideas that are sort of ineffable, you know, hard to hold it at all.

• 1:27:56Griffin Newman?

  Stylized dialogue.

• 1:27:57Speaker 03

  And be charming and be this and be that stylized dialogue. Although I think the Brooksisms are kind of at a minimum in this.

• 1:28:03Griffin Newman?

  They are.

• 1:28:04David Sims?

  There's moments.

• 1:28:04Griffin Newman?

  It's a little more grounded.

• 1:28:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:06Griffin Newman?

  But I, I think, I think a lot of it is just, is just the age, because this movie isn't framed as the crazy story of how like a child became the governor of a state, right? Like, it's supposed to be like, she's pretty young for a governor, but not like an aberration.

• 1:28:22David Sims?

  To, to give people the plot of Ellen McKay, maybe they didn't go see it. Why not? The hell? She's the lieutenant governor of her state behind an experienced governor who she used to be the chief of staff to. Clearly she was a prodigy chief of staff, given her age. And because he gets a secretary job in the US cabinet, he resigns. Why he has to resign day of is that's ludicrous. No one would do that. But what that's required for, required for the movie. In real life, he would wait to be confirmed before he fucking resigned. Um, and so she gets the governorship thrust upon her very surprisingly.

• 1:29:01Griffin Newman?

  And an idea I like is here's a person whose platforms are too radical and is not good at like comforting people. If she had to run for public election, she would never get it. It's the thing that Albert Brooks says.

• 1:29:14David Sims?

  She's not someone who's good at campaigning.

• 1:29:16Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:29:16David Sims?

  She's not good at PR. She's not good at being on TV. She's not radical, but she's a technocrat who has all this kind of like good government stuff she wants to do. That's boring and she doesn't know how to horse trade for it and all that.

• 1:29:30Griffin Newman?

  And obviously, you know, they're, they're of a different affiliation, but it's like, if you have an AOC or a Mamdani who doesn't have the PR skills.

• 1:29:39David Sims?

  Sure. Right. Right.

• 1:29:41Griffin Newman?

  Uh, like, the only way in which they're ever actually getting to get into a seat of power is through some weird fluke moment like this. And he says like, congratulations, they're going to run you out of town.

• 1:29:51David Sims?

  But for at least a little while, you are the governor.

• 1:29:53Griffin Newman?

  Right. And what are you going to do with that power?

• 1:29:55David Sims?

  Now, that's the main plot. Also, she's married. Her marriage is sort of on the rocks and she. Was having lunch dates with her husband in the state office building. And it turns out that's a misuse of government funds technically. So she's worried she's going to get in trouble for that because a reporter found out about it. And also her dad, Woody Harrelson, who had a scandal in the family when she was young.

• 1:30:21Griffin Newman?

  Was a prominent doctor who was had, they don't get too.

• 1:30:25David Sims?

  They don't get into it at all.

• 1:30:26Griffin Newman?

  But was basically caught crossing sexual lines with a bunch of his patients.

• 1:30:32David Sims?

  He's, he's a serial philanderer.

• 1:30:34Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:30:34David Sims?

  He has decided to reemerge to ask forgiveness.

• 1:30:38Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:38David Sims?

  Okay. Jamie Lee Curtis plays her brassy aunt.

• 1:30:42Griffin Newman?

  Who her mother dies shortly after the scandal of cancer. Jamie Curtis, the brother, the sister of her shitty dad became her den mother and her voice of reason. And yeah.

• 1:30:52David Sims?

  Kamel Nanjiani plays her bodyguard, you know, security detail guy who she likes. And Spike Fern, an actor I don't really know.

• 1:31:03Griffin Newman?

  No, has very few credits. He's a young British man.

• 1:31:06David Sims?

  Plays a British, another.

• 1:31:07Griffin Newman?

  Why is it so many Brits doing weird accents?

• 1:31:10David Sims?

  Yeah. Who seems to be like sort of agoraphobic, possibly other things. He's divergent in some way, but has become like a computer whiz, quote unquote, who's become maybe a millionaire. Cause he's sort of a sports gambling expert. He just sits inside all day on his computer.

• 1:31:30Griffin Newman?

  Savant in some way.

• 1:31:31David Sims?

  And he also somehow managed to bag IO, fumble IO. That all happened about a year ago and he's been ruminating on it ever since.

• 1:31:39Griffin Newman?

  And that's the.

• 1:31:40David Sims?

  While she seemingly waits in her apartment like a board, waiting to be activated.

• 1:31:44Griffin Newman?

  That's the Brooksia's writing is when he's trying to explain how he sort of asked.

• 1:31:50David Sims?

  He asked her to be his girlfriend and then they all freaked out.

• 1:31:52Griffin Newman?

  And it, cause it's all this like circuitous. It's like a 10 page scene of like dueling monologues that is such a kind of classic Brooksie high wire act. And I truly was like in real time, like it felt like watching a boxing match where I was like, okay, that one landed. That one whiffed, you know? And it's coming so fast and furious. And I'm like, is he pulling this off or not? It's hard to tell. It's really hard. The thing about the, sometimes when his dialogue is whizzing, you're like, okay, you're like the Max L guy. And you're like, and then you have to sort it out later, whether it actually made sense. The idea is that the family history, in the same way that it kind of like turned her into a Terminator, broke him. That him being at a younger age and not having a sense of self at the time that he

• 1:32:35Griffin Newman?

  has to watch his mother die and his father become a public issue, all this sort of stuff. They say that they shipped him off to military school because his dad didn't know how to deal with him. Ella kind of raised him, but then she kickstarts her career, that he is just kind of crumbled as a guy.

• 1:32:47Speaker 03

  Which is also, you know, in terms of Brooks wanting to, you know, make manifest things that were spoken about at a dinner party. He's like, I heard that young men are in trouble.

• 1:32:55Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:56Speaker 03

  A little bit. There's a little bit of that. They live on computers now.

• 1:32:59Griffin Newman?

  A little bit, and I think a little bit of the like curse of the gifted child thing of like, was a pressure put upon this kid who was so sharp at such a young age that now he lives in terror of not living up to what was projected for him.

• 1:33:12David Sims?

  You know, the flashbacks, we see him, you know, as a kid struggling with all the scandal.

• 1:33:17Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:33:18David Sims?

  So it's a lot. It's a lot for the soup.

• 1:33:20Speaker 03

  You didn't mention that Becky and Baker plays a richly bejeweled pizzeria doyen.

• 1:33:26Griffin Newman?

  They make an additional $300,000 a year by watering down the tomato sauce. That's their terrible secret.

• 1:33:32David Sims?

  Right. Like big beef with them.

• 1:33:35Speaker 03

  It's like that documentary collective about the Romanian hospital that watered down the antiseptic. It's the same exact thing.

• 1:33:39Griffin Newman?

  Becky and Baker is kind of on fire in this.

• 1:33:42David Sims?

  I mean, it's a brief performance, but yeah.

• 1:33:44Speaker 03

  Well, she falls into the pizza oven.

• 1:33:45Griffin Newman?

  I've maybe seen in a movie all year. Like it's like you're like suddenly cutting into like this, like what, what feels like Jane Austen's mafia? Like, is this like a parody of mob movies done in the low stakes?

• 1:33:58David Sims?

  It had a whiff of Ben's.

• 1:34:00Griffin Newman?

  Oh, their favorite movie. I love you to death. It does. But like, oh, this is like a fucking like.

• 1:34:05David Sims?

  Pizza!

• 1:34:06Griffin Newman?

  Pizzeria goomba.

• 1:34:08David Sims?

  Hey, I'm Italian. You can tell because I have an apron on.

• 1:34:13Speaker 04

  We didn't get enough time dealing with the pizza business.

• 1:34:16Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:34:16David Sims?

  Again, right. Maybe this movie should be a Frederick Weisman-esque seven hour odyssey.

• 1:34:21Speaker 03

  Emma Roberts, Emma Roberts, Hayden Christensen. It's called Little Italy. It's not about the Little Italy you think. It's about the Little Italy in Toronto, rival family pizza restaurants.

• 1:34:31David Sims?

  And how is that movie?

• 1:34:32Speaker 03

  Oh, boy. That's all. That's what I'll say about that one.

• 1:34:36David Sims?

  Oh, cuz you know, when I see Hayden Christensen, I think Italian.

• 1:34:40Speaker 03

  Well, it's also insane cuz he's, he's, he's like 38 and he's playing like a 21 year old.

• 1:34:46Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. Is the rivalry between the two pizzerias like, hey, we here, we make thin crust and that dirty family, their crust is a little thinner than ours.

• 1:34:55Speaker 03

  Yeah. And then they, so Hayden and Emma Waldorf, they have to do pod races.

• 1:34:59Griffin Newman?

  Of course.

• 1:35:00Speaker 03

  Uh, you know, when to fall in love, uh, over pizza.

• 1:35:03Griffin Newman?

  The only way to really, uh, settle it.

• 1:35:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, quite a movie.

• 1:35:07Griffin Newman?

  Yes. I think the way.

• 1:35:09David Sims?

  Sounds, sounds great.

• 1:35:11Speaker 03

  It's streaming. Check it out.

• 1:35:12Griffin Newman?

  I think both.

• 1:35:12Speaker 03

  It's very much about pizza.

• 1:35:13Griffin Newman?

  The nature of Woody Harrelson's performance and the way his character is deployed in this movie, and especially because as we said, the first 10 minutes of the movie are really front loading. This is the defining event of this family that will have the ripple effects on all of them forever. Right? And that is a thing that was like, the first trailer did not convey it all. I remember when friends would text me after the trailer and be like, what the fuck is this movie about? And I'm like, they're hiding the ball. It is entirely about sex scandals. Everything in this movie spins out of how do people react to sex scandals?

• 1:35:45Speaker 03

  And how does it affect like civic understanding of like public figures?

• 1:35:51Griffin Newman?

  Right. But also our personal relationships and all these sorts of things. Um, so if you're like going to see this movie being like, it's like, uh, I don't know how she does it. The first 10 minutes, I think to a general audience, any audience are gonna be like, what the fuck is this movie?

• 1:36:06Speaker 03

  When is it?

• 1:36:06Griffin Newman?

  What? Like, when is, how old or young is she supposed to play?

• 1:36:10David Sims?

  What year is it?

• 1:36:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:36:12Griffin Newman?

  And then every time he shows up in the movie after that, it almost feels like he's like Paul Bettany in A Beautiful Mind. Like, it feels magical. Like, he's a ghost of a memory haunting her.

• 1:36:22Speaker 03

  He leaves the family and then gets killed by Anton Chigurh.

• 1:36:25Griffin Newman?

  He does.

• 1:36:26Speaker 03

  Right. So he's a ghost.

• 1:36:27Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:28David Sims?

  He.

• 1:36:31David Sims?

  We're all making this movie sound bad when in fact it's a delightful romp, but um.

• 1:36:35Griffin Newman?

  I think we are alternating between making it sound better than it is and worse than it is when it exists in a fascinating middle.

• 1:36:40David Sims?

  It's another element of the movie that I could almost stand to lose because those scenes don't really, you know, link in to the main plot that much outside of the larger, like, again, she's sort of just been failed by the role models in her life.

• 1:36:58Griffin Newman?

  This almost feels like.

• 1:36:59David Sims?

  But like, she's like, I'm in the middle of a scandal. Jeanne LeCourche is like, just one second. Let me yank in here for a second. Woody Harrelson is like, please, baby, I'm sorry. And she's like, I'll see you later. He's like, okay. And then she leaves again, you know?

• 1:37:10Griffin Newman?

  Cause he's like, he's appearing in this movie in a like Jean Carlo Esposito in Brave New World. And let's salute our president, Red Hulk, right? But where you're like, this is late reshoots. And because it's stuck into scenes that already existed, she has to like turn a corner, talk to Woody Harrelson, who interacts with no other primary characters. And then she returns to her previous scene. The very ending of this movie is like her resolving her political career. And then he's just happens to be standing seven steps down the block and is like, so can we resolve that plot thread?

• 1:37:41David Sims?

  I mean, and she is like, no. Yeah. Which I kind of like that. Like, it's not a movie about her learning. Like, okay, you know what? Everyone's flawed and like, maybe you're flawed too. She's like, no, you're bad. Like, don't need you. Don't need you in my life. And I like that the only thing she wants out of him when he's like, please, please, please, like, my new wife's a psychiatrist and she says, I have to make amends with you or whatever, you know? And she's like, I will talk to you if you promise not to bother your son because you're troubling him. And he's like, okay. And she's like, you promise? Okay, fine. I'll see you later. Like, that is all she really wants from him. It's like, don't bug, um, what's his name? Casey? Cause he needs to learn how to walk to a bakery that I O lives above.

• 1:38:25Griffin Newman?

  And you've like fucked him up so badly. I'm trying to help him.

• 1:38:28David Sims?

  So beyond, right?

• 1:38:30Griffin Newman?

  Right. Undo the, the damage.

• 1:38:32David Sims?

  And then once again, once in a while, she gets in the car and chats with Camille for five minutes. And I'm like, this is interesting. I guess this is going. Somewhere, but I assume many audience members are like, what the fuck was that? You know, what's that now?

• 1:38:45Griffin Newman?

  Right. And, and Kumail also is like, uh, not an inappropriate age for how old Ella McKay, the character is supposed to be.

• 1:38:53David Sims?

  Right. But he's a little older than Emma. You're right.

• 1:38:56Griffin Newman?

  Which I do think is like an issue and you're like,

• 1:38:59David Sims?

  He is 20 years old.

• 1:39:00Griffin Newman?

  He's 20 years older than her and he's supposed to like, reading it, I assume they were.

• 1:39:06David Sims?

  Kumail's, you know, looks younger than he is and she looks older than she is, I guess.

• 1:39:10Griffin Newman?

  But it does like, start to feel like a weird power imbalance thing in like both directions. You know, where I think like, in, in theory, there's an interesting tension to this guy who's so thoroughly termed by her, but knows there is a line he cannot cross. Even if he sees like, this marriage is bad news and I wish he was with someone who respected her.

• 1:39:37David Sims?

  Right. He's not gonna, yeah.

• 1:39:38Griffin Newman?

  Right. I have a professional obligation, but when he's 20 years older than her and she's in the backseat of the car, like stoned, you're like, is he about to take advantage of her?

• 1:39:47Speaker 03

  But also the bad marriage is not apparent enough. I don't know. I don't know.

• 1:39:51David Sims?

  He's just, he's kind of a jerk and maybe everyone.

• 1:39:54Speaker 03

  But I feel like the jerk, the real jerk turn where all of a sudden it's like, oh, he's gonna fuck her over and she's gonna like, whatever. That's like, that feels like something got cut.

• 1:40:05David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:05Speaker 03

  Cause it happens so quickly.

• 1:40:07Speaker 04

  Play enough, like it, it's, it's like, it should be really portrayed as so fucking evil. He has ruined her.

• 1:40:14David Sims?

  He betrayed her. Yes.

• 1:40:16Speaker 04

  Forever.

• 1:40:17David Sims?

  Out of basically like spite and kind of feeling slighted by her and.

• 1:40:22Speaker 04

  Cause even what he's asking for is preposterous.

• 1:40:25Griffin Newman?

  Well, I think.

• 1:40:25Speaker 04

  Which, and it's done in a way where it's like, kind of like light and just like being like, isn't he silly? He's literally being like.

• 1:40:33David Sims?

  I'm gonna be co-mayor with, or co-governor with you.

• 1:40:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:40:37Griffin Newman?

  I'm gonna be the Hillary to your Bill.

• 1:40:38David Sims?

  That's not a fucking thing.

• 1:40:40Speaker 03

  No, that's.

• 1:40:41David Sims?

  It really made me mad. I'm like, fuck this guy.

• 1:40:44Griffin Newman?

  Especially if the backstory of the character isn't like, they met as like poli sci students together and they hold the same values and she became the candidate.

• 1:40:52Speaker 03

  He's the heir to a pizza fortune. What does he care about being governor?

• 1:40:54Griffin Newman?

  Who fucking gives a shit?

• 1:40:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's got way more power than any governor.

• 1:40:57Griffin Newman?

  And I think for the, I think for this character to work, he has to be so guileless that he doesn't know what he's doing is fucked up, rather than this guy feels like he's making chess moves.

• 1:41:06Speaker 03

  He has to either be like, yeah, a calculating, equally politically ambitious guy.

• 1:41:11Griffin Newman?

  Who is so good at pretending he's a normal guy.

• 1:41:13Speaker 03

  Or a badly bumbling doofus.

• 1:41:14David Sims?

  I thought that he was stupid, that he tips off the reporter by being stupid, right? And pays off the reporter because he's stupid. And then when he's like, so you, will you give me more cred and more to do? And she's like, no. And he's like, well, then I'm just gonna have to divorce you and say it's your fault. And she's like, okay. He's doing it because he's like, well, I guess I just have to do that now. I guess, I'm struggling to defend this.

• 1:41:39Speaker 03

  Then there's the scene where it implies that like Becky and Baker is like Mama Mia Macbeth, you know? And they're like, well, wait, but that, that, that, that's not necessary because that's a whole different movie.

• 1:41:53Griffin Newman?

  It's interesting. I feel like you will hear often filmmakers and screenwriters talk about, you know, where did the idea for this movie come from? And they're like, you know, it's funny, at first I was trying to write something like this. And then when I got 30 pages in, I went like, oh, this other thing I've discovered is more interesting. And you rewrite the script and you take out the original animating idea.

• 1:42:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's the crucial part. You take it out.

• 1:42:18Griffin Newman?

  James O. Brooks is the guy where every time he makes a new discovery, he adds it on top of the original thing. And you saying like, could you just drop the Woody Harrelson thing?

• 1:42:27David Sims?

  Right.

• 1:42:27Griffin Newman?

  And it's so clear to him where he's like, well, that was the whole idea.

• 1:42:29David Sims?

  That's where this all started. I'm like, I hear you, buddy.

• 1:42:32Speaker 03

  He wanted to make a movie about a really good breakfast sandwich and then he discovered Spanish while he was writing it.

• 1:42:37David Sims?

  But I mean. It's the flashbacks thing, which obviously some of them were shed. There's also, it's like, sure, I think James L. Brooks, if you were Kelly Furman Craig and you gave him a screenplay, would give you the sort of smart, like, I know how movies were made and I know how movies work and what's successful, the smart notes to help you streamline your script.

• 1:42:58Griffin Newman?

  Same story with Wes Anderson and Cameron Crowe.

• 1:43:01David Sims?

  Yes, the guys he mentored in the 90s. And like, whereas this, you know, if I went up to him and I said like, hey, your movie keeps stopping in its fucking tracks for these flashbacks that like completely kill the momentum, he would be like, no, no, no, but you don't understand. Like, you know, like, that's all part of this, you know, idea I have, right? You know, he wouldn't maybe take his own note. But that's kind of what's magic about James L. Brooks. There's nothing like these movies.

• 1:43:23Griffin Newman?

  Well, it was, what was apparent, reading it to me of like, huh, these threads all don't really come together. It's not like by the end you go like, oh, fuck. It was all building up to, you know, this moment of character catharsis or whatever it is. And like, maybe that's a thing he'll find while shooting it, or he'll find in the edit. And instead, it just feels like rather than excising certain elements from entirely, certain elements have just been minimized so much that you're like, why is this even still in there?

• 1:43:51Speaker 03

  I don't want to be ageist, but I feel like a 35-year-old James L. Brooks is like a bit more nimble to be on set and be like, all right, this isn't working, let's try this, blah, blah. Whereas 80, whatever-year-old James L. Brooks is like, I don't know, I wrote it, let's just shoot it, then we'll go home.

• 1:44:05Griffin Newman?

  Which is also maybe the area where, no disrespect to Emma Mackey, you need someone who is going to be so comfortable in being the lead of a movie and has carried a movie of this size on their shoulders before and is tested in like comedy and rom-com and all this sort of stuff, where they're also being a little bit of a taste gauge, rather than like, what do you want, James? You know? And I understand the, you even see the interviews that the cast has been doing for this movie, and they're like, why did I agree to do it? Because it's James L. Brooks.

• 1:44:38David Sims?

  Of course, to the, to the ends of the earth, people will still be like, wow, I'm interested.

• 1:44:41Griffin Newman?

  Jamie Lee Curtis is like, since the 80s, I've been like, when is this guy going to give me a call? And for someone who has been-

• 1:44:47David Sims?

  And I bet she said that in a really chill way.

• 1:44:49Speaker 03

  I read, I read an interview with Brooks in THR where he, basically, it's a, it's a paragraph, quote paragraph about each of like the 10 stars of the film, and he calls Jamie Lee Curtis, "one of the best people I've ever met in my life."

• 1:45:01David Sims?

  Has he met like two to three people?

• 1:45:04Speaker 03

  Has he met Taleon?

• 1:45:06David Sims?

  I'm simply referencing that apparently Jamie Lee Curtis can be a bit of a tough cookie, guys. I'm not saying he's one of the worst people in the world.

• 1:45:13Griffin Newman?

  James L. Brooks was a magic worker for a time, right? And it's like, if you're an actor, whether you're new or you're a hyper established legendary movie star, if you hand yourself over to him, good things are gonna come from it.

• 1:45:26Speaker 03

  And you look at a script and it's just pages and pages of dialogue and dialogue. And you're like, I'm do- it's like doing a play, but I'm getting paid way more. You know, it's like, that must be so wonderful, you know?

• 1:45:35Griffin Newman?

  And even when he whiffed and you were like, okay, so there are danger zones. It might not work every time, but it's worth the risk.

• 1:45:41Speaker 03

  And we'll have, we'll have an interesting time on set trying to find the piece. And if it doesn't get found in the edit, then whatever, we at least got fulfilled on set.

• 1:45:48Griffin Newman?

  Right. I mean, his first four films get like 10 acting nominations and three wins?

• 1:45:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's pretty impressive.

• 1:45:54Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:55David Sims?

  I'll do anything got most of those, right?

• 1:45:57Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:45:58David Sims?

  Well, in terms of endearment, of course, one best actress and best supporting actor.

• 1:46:04Griffin Newman?

  And got four.

• 1:46:05David Sims?

  And got two additional acting noms. Broadcast news.

• 1:46:08Griffin Newman?

  Three acting noms.

• 1:46:09David Sims?

  Got three acting nominations.

• 1:46:10Griffin Newman?

  Sadly, one, zero.

• 1:46:11David Sims?

  I'll do anything got 17 acting nominations.

• 1:46:14Griffin Newman?

  Zipper.

• 1:46:16David Sims?

  And Scuzicus got three noms and two wins.

• 1:46:19Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:19David Sims?

  Pretty good.

• 1:46:20Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:21Speaker 03

  That's quite a track record.

• 1:46:22David Sims?

  Right. And Spanglish was nominated for war crimes at the age.

• 1:46:27Griffin Newman?

  And two Saturn Awards, David.

• 1:46:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:46:31David Sims?

  You know, my old review of Letterboxd is like, if you made this now, you'd go to jail or whatever. It's like a joke review, but the problem with Letterboxd is people just will find reviews. And they'll be like, why did you say this? And I'm like, I don't know. I was just kidding. It's like, you know, it's a silly thing to say.

• 1:46:46Speaker 03

  Letterboxd's logs are what happen in between sandwiches, you know? It gives a shit.

• 1:46:51David Sims?

  You know what? Spanglish doesn't want to you either. That's fine. Yeah, it's okay. It doesn't need to want me.

• 1:46:59Griffin Newman?

  We, we walked out of the theater. You said I loved it.

• 1:47:01Speaker 04

  Doesn't like you either.

• 1:47:02David Sims?

  Yeah, you tell me, Spanglish.

• 1:47:04Griffin Newman?

  We walk out of the theater. You say you loved it. You, you nailed the pose outside.

• 1:47:09Speaker 04

  Nailed it.

• 1:47:10Griffin Newman?

  Standing next to the poster, right?

• 1:47:11Speaker 04

  Loved it.

• 1:47:11Griffin Newman?

  And then you got more sober and you looked at me and you said, I'm really gonna have to do some thinking before we record this episode.

• 1:47:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:47:18Griffin Newman?

  And I went, what way? And you went, I don't know. It's just interesting that I click so much with these late period James L. Brooks movies. And I, I haven't quite figured out what it is that's speaking to me.

• 1:47:31Speaker 04

  I'm an out of touch white guy.

• 1:47:32Griffin Newman?

  Is that the conclusion you come to?

• 1:47:34Speaker 04

  Um, I think for this particular.

• 1:47:37David Sims?

  It's like you're zen in white.

• 1:47:38Griffin Newman?

  What, what if, what if?

• 1:47:40Speaker 04

  Oh, okay.

• 1:47:41Speaker 03

  What if Ben said as means of an explanation as if you guys do like, all my Simpsons money?

• 1:47:46Speaker 04

  Fucking, I'm not even now about it.

• 1:47:48David Sims?

  I'm one of the producers of the Simpsons.

• 1:47:49Speaker 03

  You know that I'm Sam Simon's son, right?

• 1:47:52Griffin Newman?

  You designed Martin Prince from where baked into a contract that will never, ever end.

• 1:47:56Speaker 04

  You guys have noticed I'm sitting on a golden throne with a cape?

• 1:47:59Speaker 03

  Your solid gold house and your rocket car.

• 1:48:01David Sims?

  Oh, Chester J. Lambwick.

• 1:48:03Speaker 04

  I locked into the local politics of it all, cause my dad was heavily involved in local politics in New Jersey and in my town. And I just, I really loved that aspect of the film. So I don't know, just enjoyed that.

• 1:48:19David Sims?

  Yeah, that, that.

• 1:48:19Speaker 04

  Part of her character.

• 1:48:21David Sims?

  That vibe.

• 1:48:21Speaker 04

  Being really like wanting to make a change and wanting to do good in a, in a hyper local way.

• 1:48:28Griffin Newman?

  I, I also.

• 1:48:29Speaker 04

  I connected with that.

• 1:48:29Griffin Newman?

  I also think to go back to him being so interested in telling stories of how does a woman actually maintain a career of consequence? In a society that's not necessarily built to be conducive to that activates your Kiki's delivery service thing? Of like a person out there who really cares about what they care about and want to do something. And the whole world's kind of pushing back on them. You, you do really spark to that kind of underdog, especially when that's driven by like an optimism and a humanism.

• 1:49:00Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:49:00Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 1:49:01David Sims?

  And, and I support that.

• 1:49:02Speaker 04

  And they push through adversity and they come out on the other end and it doesn't always work out.

• 1:49:08Griffin Newman?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:49:09Speaker 04

  You know, the, in the exact way or the dream way they would want it, the ideal way. But I, I kind of like that you're seeing the character find this compromised future for themselves. Running their own nonprofit and it's a little hokey even to like see Kavner and Kumail working like, I don't know, but I just, it's a warm bath ending. It's a warm bath movie.

• 1:49:36Griffin Newman?

  Like at this point, watching this movie in the year 2025 almost feels like you're watching like an, an SNL digital short parodying this type of movie. It feels more pastiche than a real thing, even what you're talking about of like, the idea of casting two familiar faces in a big budget studio dramedy, where the comedy isn't set piece driven. And it's like, how, how can you throw the lines back and forth? And how well can you like, hold a close up and shit like that? It does, there is a warm bath feeling to this, which is why I think we're all like a little protective of, well, how hard are people going to trash this thing?

• 1:50:13Speaker 03

  This sounds corny, but this is the kind of movie.

• 1:50:17Speaker 04

  It's the kind of movie that's the kind of movie.

• 1:50:19Speaker 03

  Oh, well.

• 1:50:20Griffin Newman?

  A thousand Rye laws points.

• 1:50:22Speaker 03

  That it wants you to care about people because they're people. And it wants you to care about its story because it's a story about people. And that is like in such short supply because everyone has to have like an added thing. Or, I mean, to be honest, like a sort of issue grafted onto them or a power grafted onto them. And this is just like the kind of movie where it's like, well, it's a family. Don't we care about families?

• 1:50:43Speaker 04

  And when you see power, you mean like the powers of Superman?

• 1:50:47Griffin Newman?

  No, the power book four, the book of.

• 1:50:51Speaker 03

  But it's something you said earlier, Kiki's in dime square has a deliver, they deliver? That that looks great Greek.

• 1:50:57Griffin Newman?

  No, it's, it's Kiki Dunst and Jesse Quemans deliver. They're baked.

• 1:51:01Speaker 03

  I saw someone on Twitter the other day when the Spirit Awards were nominations were announced, and Kirsten Dunst, which is exciting, got a nomination for Roof Man.

• 1:51:09Griffin Newman?

  Hell, yeah.

• 1:51:10Speaker 03

  And I saw one quote that was like, I think totally serious, being like, I thought she retired. And was like, what?

• 1:51:15Griffin Newman?

  She did.

• 1:51:16Speaker 03

  Was that a story?

• 1:51:17Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 1:51:18Speaker 04

  No, I mean, she took a bit of a break, but at this point, that was a kind of a while ago.

• 1:51:23Speaker 03

  She was nominated for an Oscar like three, four years.

• 1:51:24Griffin Newman?

  She talked about that all the parts she got offered.

• 1:51:28Speaker 03

  Post power?

• 1:51:29Griffin Newman?

  Pissed her off, where it was a lot of suffering wives.

• 1:51:32Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:51:32Griffin Newman?

  And so she didn't make another movie until Civil War, because that was the first thing she got that was like,

• 1:51:36Speaker 03

  Right, right, right.

• 1:51:37Griffin Newman?

  This is different.

• 1:51:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:38Griffin Newman?

  And Roof Man is also different.

• 1:51:39Speaker 03

  She's so good in Roof.

• 1:51:40Griffin Newman?

  But I think she's very much like, I'd rather not work than do shit I don't want to do unless you're willing to fucking pay me.

• 1:51:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:51:46Griffin Newman?

  Put me in a superhero movie, I got kids to pay.

• 1:51:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's got all that, whatever.

• 1:51:49Speaker 04

  Kind of the Michelle Williams vibe.

• 1:51:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:51:51Griffin Newman?

  I think James L. Brooks, when he is in the pocket, his magic is, to your point, Ben, being able to have very, very lovable characters do deeply, deeply unlikable things, and having kind of contemptible characters win you over at times. And in that way, he can like capture the messiness of like, people are complicated, you know? And when he gets that right, it really feels so wise and well observed, and that he can handle those tonal shifts. You know, I mean, like Broadcast News is the peak of this for me, the scene where Albert Brooks goes from the kind of charming version of a ducky monologue to actually being evil.

• 1:52:37Griffin Newman?

  And yet the movie isn't framing him as like, well, obviously, this guy should go to jail. You know? And I feel like this movie is a little more cut and dry in terms of who the bad guys are and who the good guys are.

• 1:52:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I was kind of trying to develop this theory of like, you watch Terms, you watch Broadcast News, and you're like, Terms, obviously, like, you can sell that on like, well, Aurora is a really larger-than-life character. But I don't know, you watch that movie now, and you're like, no, it's a movie that's just about a family and about a mother and a daughter who have these, whatever. Broadcast news is just about the people who work in broadcast news. And then it gets a little bit, then like, I'll do anything, whatever, but then with, it's good to guess, it gets more character driven, like high kind of concept, character driven. And I think that's where, as much as I like that movie, I think everything post struggles to kind of regain the, it's just a movie about blank.

• 1:53:30Griffin Newman?

  Totally, totally, yes.

• 1:53:33Speaker 03

  And this is trying to return us to, it's about, it's a movie about people in local politics.

• 1:53:37Griffin Newman?

  It's, it's the closest he's gotten back to what he's really good at in such a long time. And my excitement for this movie was like, really being held in moderation of just like, A, I'm just so happy he's back. B, having read it, there are elements of this that excite me. But I'm just like, if this thing has moments, I will be happy. I've talked about in other episodes, but I like gave, how do you know, a rewatch in the last year to be like, now that we don't get this kind of movie, will I be warmer to it?

• 1:54:10David Sims?

  And there's the odd, there's the occasional defender.

• 1:54:13Speaker 03

  It is repellent, I think.

• 1:54:15Griffin Newman?

  I come around to so many of the late period Crow movies that I'd struggled with.

• 1:54:18David Sims?

  No, I agree with you.

• 1:54:19Griffin Newman?

  And how do you know, just fucking clings off the backboard and it like, makes you break out in hives? And when people were like, it's got like a couple of performances or like some lines are good or this scene is good or whatever.

• 1:54:31David Sims?

  The one scene where he's filming Catherine Han in the hospital.

• 1:54:35Griffin Newman?

  No, I'm saying about Ella McCay.

• 1:54:36David Sims?

  Oh, yeah, sure.

• 1:54:37Griffin Newman?

  I started getting so excited where I was like, if any percentage of this is in a good pitch, I will be thrilled. And like some of it is.

• 1:54:47Speaker 03

  Yes, I, I did not hate it by any means. I wanted more for it, but didn't expect more from it, if that makes any sense. I just like, I, I think, I'm, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm leaning more towards Ben's side of things where it's like, this is just like a nice kind of movie. I wish that it existed more and sure it has flaws, but like, again, I'm dreading the snark about it because come on, like.

• 1:55:07Griffin Newman?

  And also like Disney is dumping it so hard that now like, you know, a week before its wide release, at the time we're recording this, the like Simpsons is marketing this and that doesn't feel like. Disney strategic synergy.

• 1:55:22David Sims?

  No.

• 1:55:23Griffin Newman?

  That feels like James Earl Brooks three months ago was like.

• 1:55:25David Sims?

  Please clap.

• 1:55:26Griffin Newman?

  Yeah, truly. It feels like.

• 1:55:28David Sims?

  It's the email you send your friends saying, can you come to my show?

• 1:55:31Griffin Newman?

  Right. They're not giving.

• 1:55:33Speaker 03

  Papering the house now. He's like, I'll pay for the.

• 1:55:35Griffin Newman?

  Any support. So can I use the one thing I do control? And now Marge and Lisa are standing outside the theater being like, it made me feel good. You know, and like.

• 1:55:44David Sims?

  We need sensible comedy.

• 1:55:46Speaker 03

  I mean, she is a bit of a Lisa, right?

• 1:55:48Griffin Newman?

  Totally.

• 1:55:48David Sims?

  She's a bit of more than a bit of a Lisa.

• 1:55:50Griffin Newman?

  What, which like, that's a great analog for what this character is in the best case scenario. Right? Where you're like, even when she's being strident or annoying, there is something so human to her in her vulnerability. You know, in her trying to figure out how to manage being a person in the world. And I don't think like the movie completely fails on that front, but it doesn't find the magic of.

• 1:56:20Griffin Newman?

  I I'm nuts about her.

• 1:56:21Speaker 03

  Well, there's nothing peppery about her like there is Holly Hunter and or or Deborah Winger.

• 1:56:26David Sims?

  Or. Little cup patea.

• 1:56:28Griffin Newman?

  Little cup. I mean, that's, that's a cup of straight pepper. Not even pepper and water, just pepper to the brim.

• 1:56:36Speaker 03

  God bless her.

• 1:56:37David Sims?

  This one was coming out next.

• 1:56:39Speaker 03

  Although her, her political career was more successful than Ellis. She became secretary.

• 1:56:42Griffin Newman?

  Madam Secretary. Yeah.

• 1:56:43David Sims?

  That is so true. She did.

• 1:56:46David Sims?

  This one's coming out next weekend, right? Next Friday.

• 1:56:49Griffin Newman?

  The 17th?

• 1:56:50David Sims?

  No, the 12th.

• 1:56:51Griffin Newman?

  Or the.

• 1:56:52Speaker 03

  When does this episode air?

• 1:56:53Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 1:56:54David Sims?

  This episode airs on the 14th.

• 1:56:56Griffin Newman?

  What? I think it was. Okay, okay, sure. So it's coming out two weeks before Avatar?

• 1:57:01David Sims?

  One week before Avatar.

• 1:57:03Griffin Newman?

  Got it.

• 1:57:04David Sims?

  So, you know, coming out this weekend at the box office is Five Nights at Freddy's two, which seems like it's just going to stroll to like $50 million.

• 1:57:12Speaker 03

  A friend told me a funny thing about that.

• 1:57:14David Sims?

  What's that?

• 1:57:14Speaker 03

  Well, he texted me. He said, isn't it interesting that there are about 20 negative reviews out for it? That are on, you know, Universal owned Rotten Tomatoes, and yet they haven't posted a score yet.

• 1:57:25David Sims?

  Oh, that's funny.

• 1:57:26Speaker 03

  For the Universal film.

• 1:57:27David Sims?

  Hmm.

• 1:57:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:27David Sims?

  They didn't do the, the like, the thing where the numbers like, what's it gonna be? What's it gonna be? And then it's like 12.

• 1:57:34Griffin Newman?

  It's weird. I'm seeing here it's the first movie to be 100% Freddy.

• 1:57:40Speaker 03

  We've been given a score of Shelby Oaks. Oh, God.

• 1:57:44Griffin Newman?

  What if they just create a different like, oh, it's a tomato. It's a.

• 1:57:47Speaker 03

  It's a, it's a Hutcherson.

• 1:57:51David Sims?

  So Five Nights with Freddy's, Zootopia and Wicked, I guess, are all hanging around. There's nothing else in the box office mix until Avatar, right? Like, there's no other big-

• 1:58:02Griffin Newman?

  No, cuz-

• 1:58:03David Sims?

  -player swinging in.

• 1:58:04Griffin Newman?

  Am I right that Avatar and Marty Supreme are the same weekend?

• 1:58:09David Sims?

  You're wrong. Avatar is the 19th, along with, of course. Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah, no. Yeah, no. Along with, um, well-

• 1:58:17Griffin Newman?

  Is this thing on?

• 1:58:18David Sims?

  But that's the limited release. Marty is getting, like, very limited 19th, but Marty is watching on Christmas.

• 1:58:23Griffin Newman?

  The widest Christmas, and that's also Anaconda and SpongeBob?

• 1:58:26David Sims?

  Indeed. And The Housemaid, I think, is also coming up the Avatar weekend as a-

• 1:58:31Speaker 03

  That's being projected to make a lot of money.

• 1:58:33David Sims?

  I, that, that thing's crushing in pre-sales.

• 1:58:35Griffin Newman?

  Really?

• 1:58:36Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:36Griffin Newman?

  The book is, like, huge. Is that all it is?

• 1:58:38David Sims?

  And just counter-programming.

• 1:58:40Speaker 03

  And this is the kind of stuff that people want to see, Sydney Sweeney, and not-

• 1:58:43Griffin Newman?

  Sure.

• 1:58:43Speaker 03

  -dour movies about abused boxers.

• 1:58:45Griffin Newman?

  Yeah. I, I do find it fascinating. I mean, it speaks to the "we all live in different realities" thing now. We're like, I'm someone who's fucking on the prowl for movie shit-

• 1:58:55Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:58:55Griffin Newman?

  -and trying to stay tapped into everything, and there is not a single iota of marketing for The Housemaid that has hit me.

• 1:59:01David Sims?

  I would agree with you. I'm not seeing much.

• 1:59:03Griffin Newman?

  There's a trailer poster- In theaters, I'm not seeing shit online, and like, they're clearly selling it successfully to the people it's made for.

• 1:59:10David Sims?

  I guess so.

• 1:59:11Griffin Newman?

  What were you gonna say, Richard?

• 1:59:12Speaker 03

  I was just gonna say that, um, you know, the, the people, well, we were talking about this off-mic about Pillion, but the people that are seeing Housemaid ads are the people who want to see Pillion, you know what I mean?

• 1:59:23David Sims?

  But I'm just assuming, box office-wise, that this movie is going to be the sort of sole wide release and open, like, number eight. You know what I mean? Like, it'll be like, Five Nights with Freddy's and Zootopia and Wicked continue to do pretty good. Ellen McKay also opened.

• 1:59:38Griffin Newman?

  It is this thing that is, um, spinning the industry into a state of panic that is entirely self-created, where they're just like, "Well, if Ellen McKay is the only wide release that weekend, I guess it will have to do okay." And you're like, "That is some fucking 1997 thinking." And there was even still, like, faint traces of that in, like, 2017.

• 2:00:00Speaker 03

  People are inevitably gonna go to the movie theater, so.

• 2:00:03David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:00:03Griffin Newman?

  Right, but there used to be this default, they check the showtimes on Friday and go, we'll just see whatever.

• 2:00:08Speaker 03

  Well, my sister, when we were in Rhode Island in the summers, we would just call the, the, the repeating phone answering service.

• 2:00:15Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:00:15Speaker 03

  And write down the times and whatever fit we saw. That's why I saw like the Leave It To Beaver movie in theaters, because it was the one with the right showtime.

• 2:00:22Griffin Newman?

  It was why it was valuable to have a movie open on 2,000 screens, because saturation would just basically, short of an atomic disaster, that was usually driven by like intense negative feelings.

• 2:00:33David Sims?

  Very bad buzz, right?

• 2:00:34Griffin Newman?

  Right. That like you would just get default walk up business.

• 2:00:37Speaker 03

  Let's go see a movie.

• 2:00:38Griffin Newman?

  Right. And I don't think that's gonna happen here.

• 2:00:41David Sims?

  Look, maybe we're wrong. Maybe it makes 40.

• 2:00:43Griffin Newman?

  I hope I'm so fucking wrong, but the fact that it's opening without competition and then we're gonna get some headline of like, this is the worst weekend before Christmas, or two weekends before Christmas in like fucking 10 years. And I'm like, what do you guys want? You like, didn't release anything commercial for two months and then put three billion dollar movies within three, four weeks of each other? They're like sucking up all the oxygen because you didn't spread them out.

• 2:01:06Speaker 03

  Were you funding me or is the L M K post thing actually an online thing?

• 2:01:11Griffin Newman?

  Uh, we're trying to make it a thing.

• 2:01:12David Sims?

  I, a lot of people are doing it in a jokey way on Twitter, but I think it's more of a film Twitter thing.

• 2:01:17Speaker 03

  Film Twitter people, okay. It's not like, it's not like TikTok. It's not like, um, gentle minions or anything.

• 2:01:21David Sims?

  I, I don't think so.

• 2:01:23Griffin Newman?

  How great would it be if it had some fucking like?

• 2:01:26David Sims?

  You never know.

• 2:01:26Griffin Newman?

  Anyone but you lip, lip sync TikToks.

• 2:01:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know what I mean? Like some weirdly surprising viral thing that somehow sells it.

• 2:01:34Griffin Newman?

  Like what if it performs like fucking, uh, uh, Greatest Showman? Like it opens to three and everyone's like, oof. And then weekend two, you're like, it's up 250%?

• 2:01:43Speaker 03

  Is that that circus musical?

• 2:01:44Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:01:46Griffin Newman?

  What were you gonna say, David?

• 2:01:48David Sims?

  Oh, just say it opens to three and then makes three for 29 more weekends.

• 2:01:53Griffin Newman?

  Small drop.

• 2:01:54David Sims?

  Three, three, three, three, three.

• 2:01:57Griffin Newman?

  Ending up at a robust domestic total of thirty?

• 2:02:00Speaker 03

  How kids learn basic math, like, what's three times seven weeks of L M K?

• 2:02:04David Sims?

  Oh, boy. No, it'll probably open to a black hat or so.

• 2:02:09Griffin Newman?

  Uh, let me, let me, let's, I just want to circle back to two other things. Cause I feel like, uh, the, the younger brother is a total dud is the sentiment I keep hearing for everyone who's seen it. And I came loaded for bear, especially having read that script and been like, fuck, this part is interesting. If not incredibly tricky to pull off. And I kind of liked him, if only because I think the worst version of that character is someone doing eight thousand fucking really loud tics. And I appreciated his choice to be to.

• 2:02:42Speaker 03

  Well, they tried to get, they tried to get Justin Bartha to just reprise his Gili role.

• 2:02:46Griffin Newman?

  That feels like the nightmare of what I was worried it was gonna be when people told me the kid was bad. Where I'm just like, he's gonna be like fucking touching the doorknob 20 times and like screaming.

• 2:02:56Speaker 03

  He's just like pouty in a way that people don't like when certain young male actors do that kind of role.

• 2:03:01David Sims?

  I, I don't know who would be good. I don't know.

• 2:03:03Griffin Newman?

  I don't either. Yeah. It's, it's a little bit of an impossible part in how he set it up.

• 2:03:07David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:09Griffin Newman?

  I do, the performance I quietly really like in this movie and a scene where I was like, this feels like fucking classic James L. Brooks magic is the other part of her security detail. Who's trying to get overtime because he's going through a divorce and needs money to raise.

• 2:03:28David Sims?

  But that scene, I mean, is truly out of nowhere.

• 2:03:32Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:03:33David Sims?

  And one of those things where you're like, did I forget that I went to the bathroom or something? And this guy was set up earlier? Cause it is James L. Brooks magic. I agree. It's the classic James L. Brooks thing.

• 2:03:45Griffin Newman?

  But you're like, this is not the movie we've been in. Who is this guy?

• 2:03:48David Sims?

  Who, who, and who?

• 2:03:49Griffin Newman?

  Do you want to know? Can I reveal to you guys?

• 2:03:51David Sims?

  Reveal to me who it is.

• 2:03:52Griffin Newman?

  That is a young actor named Joey Brooks.

• 2:03:53David Sims?

  Joey.

• 2:03:54Griffin Newman?

  Who is the son of James L. Brooks, who I.

• 2:03:57Speaker 03

  How to help the, the, what, to get cast in his dad's, well, that is such a weird coincidence that he ended up in that movie when his dad was the director. I know, that's so crazy.

• 2:04:06Griffin Newman?

  I really like him and he's got like, doesn't work that much, but he's got one scene in The Big Short.

• 2:04:13David Sims?

  Yeah, I remember I just, I'm looking at his IMDB and I remember that scene.

• 2:04:16Griffin Newman?

  And I remember being like, who is this guy? He's got interesting dialogue rhythms and an interesting energy and an interesting face.

• 2:04:23Speaker 03

  In Big Short.

• 2:04:23Griffin Newman?

  It is John McGaro and Finn Whitrock try to go to get, take a big meeting.

• 2:04:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:04:28Griffin Newman?

  And their receptionist comes downstairs and gives them the polite brush off.

• 2:04:31Speaker 03

  Oh, that's him.

• 2:04:32Griffin Newman?

  Was sent down to like, test if they're worth.

• 2:04:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:04:35Griffin Newman?

  His time. And he's really good in it. And then he was like, McKay clearly likes him a lot. I think he's got a small part in Vice or Don't Look Up. He showed up on Winning Time. He's like my age, he's like mid 30s. There are a couple of other things he's been in, but I always think he's interesting.

• 2:04:50David Sims?

  He's in Molly's Game.

• 2:04:51Griffin Newman?

  He's in Molly's Game. He plays like one of the young, yeah.

• 2:04:54David Sims?

  He's in 17 episodes of Winning Time, a show I watched.

• 2:04:58Griffin Newman?

  It does feel like McKay always casts him. Probably through some connection to his father.

• 2:05:04David Sims?

  Right.

• 2:05:05Griffin Newman?

  I, I think he is actually the rare case of like.

• 2:05:08David Sims?

  That scene is wild, man.

• 2:05:10Griffin Newman?

  It's a wild scene, but I think he plays it beautifully.

• 2:05:12David Sims?

  Sure, sure, yeah.

• 2:05:14Griffin Newman?

  And on paper, you're waiting for the explanation of why is this scene in this movie? It's the director's son.

• 2:05:19Speaker 03

  But also it gives Ella a chance to be kind of a little annoyed about it where it's like, oh, she's really principled. But also principle is not taking into account that sometimes people need extra money. Again, I don't know.

• 2:05:29David Sims?

  It's also working in this pseudo romantic plotline she has with Camille. That does not actually come to fruition, but the, I feel like there's the vaguest hint in that final scene of like, oh, maybe there'll be something there.

• 2:05:42Speaker 03

  Cause they work together.

• 2:05:42David Sims?

  Cause he quits his job to work with her.

• 2:05:44Griffin Newman?

  Which was also a reshoot, by the way, the movie was supposed to just end with.

• 2:05:48David Sims?

  Go ahead.

• 2:05:49Griffin Newman?

  She steps down.

• 2:05:49David Sims?

  I'm stunned to learn that that bizarre scene was a reshoot. The scene where they're like, do you want to tell her? I'll tell her. Okay, here we are. We can announce that you have fed a very specific number, like 9,482 moms or whatever it was like. It doesn't, it's very strange.

• 2:06:08Griffin Newman?

  But it also feels like.

• 2:06:09David Sims?

  But it's nice.

• 2:06:10Griffin Newman?

  But it's nice. It feels like a test screening note of the movie ends with she's. Resigned and she's 34. What the fuck does she do with the rest of her life?

• 2:06:17David Sims?

  Exactly. She's doing something.

• 2:06:19Griffin Newman?

  Right.

• 2:06:19Speaker 04

  I like when people help moms. Okay, sorry, sue me.

• 2:06:23David Sims?

  I liked the movie too. I like, I like that she wants to help people. It'd be funny if she was like, she takes power and she's like, okay, great.

• 2:06:30Griffin Newman?

  Though I will.

• 2:06:30David Sims?

  How can we hurt the?

• 2:06:32Speaker 04

  We took food away from 9,000 families.

• 2:06:35Speaker 03

  Doesn't two weeks notice end with Sandra Bullock also working at Legal Aid?

• 2:06:38David Sims?

  Possibly. I mean, that movie's, that's the greatest movie ever made.

• 2:06:41Speaker 03

  I feel like going to work for Legal Aid is how people resolve like a lawyer story.

• 2:06:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, where it's like, don't worry, they're not evil anymore. They've left the poisonous system.

• 2:06:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. I met someone the other day and I was like, what does your wife do? And she was like, oh, she's a lawyer who works at a nonprofit for like, um, fighting eviction. And I was like, oh, so she's a sellout. And she, this person I was making friends with didn't realize that I was joking.

• 2:07:03David Sims?

  Oh, they thought you just threw.

• 2:07:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:07:05David Sims?

  I was like, oh, sorry.

• 2:07:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:07:07Speaker 04

  Okay, as much as I liked that it ended with everything working out and her being, you know, the nicest lady, it would have been kind of cool if like, you see the back of a chair. She turns around, she's smoking a cigar. She's in the mob now.

• 2:07:20David Sims?

  That would be good.

• 2:07:21Speaker 04

  She went totally evil.

• 2:07:23Speaker 03

  And then a pizza comes flying at the street.

• 2:07:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, right.

• 2:07:26Speaker 03

  In on screen.

• 2:07:27Speaker 04

  It drips down and then cheese, it says the end.

• 2:07:29Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 2:07:30Speaker 04

  That would be good if the cheese said the end.

• 2:07:31Speaker 03

  And then a question mark in tomato sauce.

• 2:07:34Griffin Newman?

  That is, I think, I think if audiences reject this movie.

• 2:07:37David Sims?

  They can add that ending.

• 2:07:39Griffin Newman?

  No, I was gonna say, that's probably the reason why. You know, the Monday morning quarterbacks are gonna say like, it really needed to send audiences out on a high note of seeing the end spelled out in cheese splattered against the screen.

• 2:07:50Speaker 03

  The Ninja Turtles needed to be vaguely evoked.

• 2:07:55David Sims?

  Ella McKay, how can we help? Like Leonardo and Raphael show up.

• 2:07:59Griffin Newman?

  This movie is neither radical nor bodacious enough.

• 2:08:01Speaker 03

  Well, the Ninja Turtles are from Rhode Island, so.

• 2:08:05David Sims?

  Ella is sort of a hero and a half show.

• 2:08:09David Sims?

  Look, this is, and this is why Ben is in a good mood. He's got a big smile on his face. Our last record of 2025.

• 2:08:18Griffin Newman?

  It is in fact.

• 2:08:19Speaker 03

  Oh, wow. That's significant.

• 2:08:20Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:08:20Speaker 03

  I don't think I've ever been here for the last record of anything.

• 2:08:23David Sims?

  Griffin is going on a work vacation.

• 2:08:26Griffin Newman?

  I'm doing a little work vacation.

• 2:08:27David Sims?

  He's doing a little work. We're not going to talk about that.

• 2:08:29Speaker 03

  I know what it is.

• 2:08:30David Sims?

  Too much because it's top secret.

• 2:08:31Griffin Newman?

  I, I, I just want to.

• 2:08:32David Sims?

  Remake up the film talk secret.

• 2:08:34Griffin Newman?

  I, I don't want people speculating too largely about it because I feel like Ben has been doing some wind up because it's an exciting thing. I think it will just be a fun surprise to people when they see.

• 2:08:44Speaker 03

  You're going to be in one of Barney Frank's stag films and I think that's great.

• 2:08:47Griffin Newman?

  Correct. That's a good part. The script is good.

• 2:08:49David Sims?

  You say the same thing on next week's episode, which covers the film. What's it called? Avatar: The Way of Water? No. Fire and Ash.

• 2:08:57Griffin Newman?

  I just know our Reddit is going to be like, wait a second, is Herbie talking in Doomsday? Is that why?

• 2:09:04David Sims?

  It's not.

• 2:09:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:09:05Griffin Newman?

  It's not. It's not, but it will, it'll be a fun thing when it, when it is made public.

• 2:09:10David Sims?

  So next week on Black Check, we're talking about Avatar, Fire and Ash. Then we're taking a week off. Then we're talking about, is this thing on? We're going to take a week on to talk about this week, that movie.

• 2:09:21Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:22David Sims?

  And then we'll talk about Park Chan Wook's No Other Choice.

• 2:09:24Griffin Newman?

  But to remind people in our week off, first episode of Critical Darling.

• 2:09:28Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:09:29Griffin Newman?

  On this same.

• 2:09:30David Sims?

  On this very feed right here.

• 2:09:31Griffin Newman?

  And then it will come out every Thursday after that.

• 2:09:34Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 2:09:34Griffin Newman?

  Through the end of March.

• 2:09:35Speaker 03

  Through, through Oscar stuff.

• 2:09:37Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:37David Sims?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:09:38Griffin Newman?

  And then after that, as you said.

• 2:09:39David Sims?

  We're doing Lynn Ramsey after, uh, Park Chan Wook.

• 2:09:42Griffin Newman?

  And, and Peter, we're after that.

• 2:09:44David Sims?

  And Peter, we're after that. And after that, I don't know.

• 2:09:47Griffin Newman?

  I don't know.

• 2:09:48Speaker 03

  Lynn Ramsey from Something About Mary?

• 2:09:50David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:50Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:51Speaker 03

  I looked that lady up the other day because I wanted to use her photo, the, the tan lady.

• 2:09:55Griffin Newman?

  Maga.

• 2:09:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, she's great. Anyway.

• 2:09:57Griffin Newman?

  A legend.

• 2:09:58David Sims?

  How's she doing?

• 2:09:59Speaker 03

  She's all right.

• 2:10:00David Sims?

  She's got a lot of, yeah.

• 2:10:02Speaker 03

  Thoughts about. Yeah. She's the governor of Rhode Island right now.

• 2:10:04David Sims?

  Great. Cool. Uh, great.

• 2:10:06Griffin Newman?

  Uh, so I, I mean, updated James L. Brooks rankings. Ben, do you like this more or less than Spanglish?

• 2:10:12David Sims?

  No, Spanglish still, this is my top.

• 2:10:16Griffin Newman?

  That's your number one?

• 2:10:17David Sims?

  Well, no.

• 2:10:17Griffin Newman?

  No.

• 2:10:18David Sims?

  Between the two.

• 2:10:19Griffin Newman?

  Okay.

• 2:10:19David Sims?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:20Griffin Newman?

  Cause I feel like I go broadcast news, Terms of Endearment, as good as it gets, this. Then I go Spanglish.

• 2:10:34David Sims?

  How do you know where I'll do anything? What's your pick your point?

• 2:10:36Griffin Newman?

  Well, and also it's like, which cut of I'll do anything am I prioritizing? I think there's more in I'll do anything I like, even if the worst of it is more disastrous versus like, how do you know kind of just making me feel bad from beginning to end? Making my teeth.

• 2:10:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think any ranking I would do would have to put how do I know at the bottom?

• 2:10:52Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:52David Sims?

  Cause again, as we said.

• 2:10:53Speaker 04

  That work you did.

• 2:10:55Griffin Newman?

  Thank you.

• 2:10:55Speaker 04

  Great stuff.

• 2:10:56Griffin Newman?

  Thank you. You are the best. Remember that?

• 2:11:00Griffin Newman?

  You can do anything.

• 2:11:02David Sims?

  I mean, I do.

• 2:11:03Griffin Newman?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:05Griffin Newman?

  Well, that's a now an epilogueed end to our James L. Brooks mini series.

• 2:11:12Speaker 03

  I don't think I'm ever gonna come back for another James.

• 2:11:16David Sims?

  I mean, maybe.

• 2:11:17Griffin Newman?

  It would be astonishing.

• 2:11:19Speaker 03

  Simpsons three has to cut, you know?

• 2:11:21Griffin Newman?

  The Simpsons two thing is interesting.

• 2:11:24David Sims?

  We appreciate him. We appreciate him. For all the flaws, we appreciate him.

• 2:11:30Griffin Newman?

  We do. I mean, yeah.

• 2:11:32David Sims?

  And we appreciate you, the listener. But of course, this isn't the last episode of the year, so I shouldn't be too over the top about all this.

• 2:11:39Speaker 03

  It is for us.

• 2:11:41Speaker 03

  Subscribe to the premiere party newsletter, please.

• 2:11:44Griffin Newman?

  Please do.

• 2:11:45Speaker 03

  Paul Newman's gonna have my legs broke.

• 2:11:47Griffin Newman?

  And stay subscribed right here for Critical Darling.

• 2:11:50Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:11:50Griffin Newman?

  And next week, we're gonna get all fucking horned.

• 2:11:53David Sims?

  Oh, yeah. We're gonna be Fereng.

• 2:11:55Griffin Newman?

  Fereng. Richard, have you met Fereng?

• 2:11:58Speaker 03

  Oh, I've met Fereng. Yeah, I sure have.

• 2:12:00Griffin Newman?

  Do you want to throw out a quick Fereng take, just since you're not on that?

• 2:12:02David Sims?

  It wasn't Penny Seagull's parties. Peggy Seagull, fuck.

• 2:12:06Speaker 03

  I think it's a great performance that's underused.

• 2:12:09David Sims?

  Yeah, that could have been more Fereng.

• 2:12:11Griffin Newman?

  Here's what I'd say. They left me wanting more.

• 2:12:14David Sims?

  Leaving.

• 2:12:17Speaker 03

  Red means bad.

• 2:12:19Griffin Newman?

  Fire. Fire bad.

• 2:12:22Griffin Newman?

  Fire bad.

• 2:12:23Speaker 03

  There's some, there's, well, I'm, there's some racial stuff in that movie that I'll be curious to hear you guys talk about.

• 2:12:28David Sims?

  Oh, we don't.

• 2:12:31Griffin Newman?

  You, you think that movie is disrespectful to Thanators?

• 2:12:35Speaker 03

  Pretty much, that's, yeah.

• 2:12:36Griffin Newman?

  It treats them all as savages.

• 2:12:38Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:12:39Griffin Newman?

  Um, thank you for being here.

• 2:12:40Speaker 03

  Thank you for having me. What a treat, as always. Um, and now that I'm, I don't know, almost part of the family, I'm, I'm very, very grateful.

• 2:12:48Griffin Newman?

  You've always been part of the family, but now, now you're like married by law.

• 2:12:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:52Griffin Newman?

  Into the family.

• 2:12:53Speaker 03

  Now I own the pizza empire.

• 2:12:54Griffin Newman?

  Yes.

• 2:12:55David Sims?

  By law, to Rylo.

• 2:12:57Griffin Newman?

  Hey! Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe.

• 2:13:05Griffin Newman?

  And as always,

• 2:13:09Griffin Newman?

  Emma Mackey is Ella Mckay.

• 2:13:16Speaker 03

  I'm not it.

• 2:13:16Griffin Newman?

  David's not it.