Take the Little Wins with Aly Raisman

Two-time Olympic gymnast Aly Raisman joins IMO today to reflect on her incredible career as a gymnast and life after the sport. Aly shares the moment she knew she wanted to go to the Olympics, how her parents navigated her intense childhood training regimen, and how she is adjusting to life after the sport that profoundly changed her life. Plus, Michelle reveals the sport she always dreamed of joining. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at ⁠imopod.com⁠ http://imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  In 2016, before the all-around final, Simone and I, we were about to compete and we went to the bathroom quickly. And I remember, I looked at her and I said, "You good?" She goes, "Nope." And I said, "Nope." And we both, I said, "I feel like I'm gonna throw up." And then we just were like, "Okay, let's just be nervous together. Let's do this together." But it was nice because even though we were competing against each other, we still felt like a team in that moment.

• 0:42Craig Robinson?

  Well, what do you think?

• 0:44Michelle Obama?

  What's the Olympic music? We should probably...

• 0:52Michelle Obama?

  So, when did you join the ski team?

• 0:54Craig Robinson?

  I didn't, and you know...

• 0:56Michelle Obama?

  Are you a bobsler?

• 0:57Craig Robinson?

  I don't, I don't wanna...

• 1:01Craig Robinson?

  I don't wanna portray myself as an Olympian, even though I would have loved to have been an Olympian. But this is just some gear that I'm wearing from Ralph Lauren.

• 1:13Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, it's good. I love it. I'm just wondering where my sweater is, Ralph Lauren.

• 1:18Craig Robinson?

  Well, what are you wearing?

• 1:20Michelle Obama?

  I'm wearing Ralph Lauren, too. You know, winter collection, these beautiful velvet, deep purple pants. I love, this feels so good.

• 1:29Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:31Craig Robinson?

  Well, you know, Ralph Lauren outfits the US Olympic team and Paralympic team. It has been for quite a while. And they were kind enough to send me this authentic Olympic sweater that is actually very comfortable.

• 1:45Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, it does. It's soft. It's like the Ralph Lauren sweaters. The quality is exactly the same.

• 1:52Craig Robinson?

  And we've got the team patches on the side. It's just on the sleeve. It's great.

• 1:57Michelle Obama?

  Very cool gear. Very cool. Very Americana.

• 2:00Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, and I threw on my Ralph Lauren...

• 2:02Michelle Obama?

  Of course.

• 2:03Craig Robinson?

  Kicks, too.

• 2:04Michelle Obama?

  So, we've got the Winter Olympics coming up?

• 2:08Craig Robinson?

  Yes. How about that?

• 2:10Michelle Obama?

  That means that our guest is right on the money.

• 2:14Craig Robinson?

  She sure is.

• 2:16Michelle Obama?

  I wanted to be a gymnast.

• 2:18Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, I remember that.

• 2:20Michelle Obama?

  I was a huge.

• 2:21Craig Robinson?

  I remember that.

• 2:22Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I know. It's funny, right? I, you know.

• 2:25Craig Robinson?

  Everybody's giggling because they can't believe that you wanted to be a gymnast.

• 2:29Michelle Obama?

  I love the Olympics solely for the gymnastics.

• 2:32Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 2:33Michelle Obama?

  Ogle Corbett, Nadia Komenich, those performances, I was riveted.

• 2:39Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 2:39Michelle Obama?

  And I was determined to be a gymnast until I started to grow. And I realized there was absolutely, I wondered why I could never do a full back walkover.

• 2:51Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 2:52Michelle Obama?

  And I just think my body structure, it's like little torso, long legs, trying to kick over. I never could kick over as smoothly as the real gymnast could.

• 3:03Craig Robinson?

  I know you don't.

• 3:04Michelle Obama?

  So I had to hang up my, I had to, those dreams were dashed.

• 3:06Craig Robinson?

  I know you don't, won't remember this, but I remember you trying to do that.

• 3:11Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 3:12Craig Robinson?

  And it was, it was frustrating.

• 3:14Michelle Obama?

  I would spend hours in the living room. I was good at a cartwheel, a good roundoff, but the going backwards stuff was a problem.

• 3:21Craig Robinson?

  Well, I remember you doing a back bend where, you know, where you have your hands back and your legs, but the part before you kick yourself over.

• 3:29Michelle Obama?

  Right, I could do the back bend.

• 3:30Craig Robinson?

  You were really good at that.

• 3:31Michelle Obama?

  So I am way more excited than you can imagine to have a true Olympian. Please.

• 3:38Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 3:39Michelle Obama?

  Do a proper introduction.

• 3:40Craig Robinson?

  Let me get the introduction out of the way and we can bring her out. So Ally Raisman, team captain of the gold medal winning US women's gymnastic teams in 2012 and 2016, is one of the most decorated American gymnasts of all time. A leader on and off the floor, Raisman uses her platform to help normalize the conversation around mental health, abuse prevention, positive body image, and the importance of self-care. She is a two-time New York Times bestselling author, and now an ESPN analyst for college gymnastics.

• 4:18Michelle Obama?

  Nice.

• 4:19Craig Robinson?

  Without further ado, Ally, come on down.

• 4:22Michelle Obama?

  Ally.

• 4:24Michelle Obama?

  Hi, it's good to see you again.

• 4:28Craig Robinson?

  Wait, I don't hear your gold medals clanging.

• 4:31Speaker 00

  They're in a safe somewhere. I actually don't even know where they are.

• 4:36Michelle Obama?

  I, I believe that.

• 4:37Craig Robinson?

  I believe that.

• 4:38Speaker 00

  But if I did, I would tell you guys secretly, not on here. Thank you, you're such a gentleman. Thank you.

• 4:42Michelle Obama?

  It's true. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

• 4:44Craig Robinson?

  But see, you're, you're, you're a true athlete. You don't, the, the, the, the trophies and medals, that's an afterthought. You got to compete.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  I know. Well, first of all, thank you guys so much for having me on. I'm so just honored and thrilled. It's really a gift to be here with both of you. So, thank you. And you know what? This probably sounds cheesy, but I think because I don't think about the medals so much, but maybe because I, I got them. So it's, I'm very, I'm so happy and satisfied with my gymnastics career that it's funny. I, it's not like I bring out my medals or I don't bring them everywhere.

• 5:25Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 5:25Speaker 00

  Because then TSA is like, oh, we gotta check your bag. And then they wanna try it on. So I don't really bring it places anymore. Yeah.

• 5:33Michelle Obama?

  It's like, don't touch it. You wanna just, you put it back.

• 5:37Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I didn't think about the TSA issue.

• 5:39Speaker 00

  I know. They're like, we gotta check your bag. And then they open it and they say, can I try it on? And then it, it's a whole thing.

• 5:45Craig Robinson?

  So wait, commentating for ESPN?

• 5:46Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 5:47Craig Robinson?

  Is this first time?

• 5:49Speaker 00

  My third season.

• 5:50Craig Robinson?

  Third season? Alright, how's it going?

• 5:52Speaker 00

  It's good. The third season starts soon and I love it. It's actually been healing for me because I've kind of gotten to re-fall in love with gymnastics again. And I absolutely love the age group of college students. They're just so loving and sweet and so passionate and they work so hard. And I think because I know what it feels like. I didn't do college gymnastics, but I know what it feels like to work so hard and to be out there in the nerves. And I try to bring a more human element to it of if they make a mistake. Instead of trying to be dramatic to build the moment, I try to do the opposite and be like, they're human and remind the viewer that it is so stressful and so nerve wracking.

• 6:37Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 6:38Speaker 00

  My therapist would say, you have to be okay with knowing that you might by accident hurt someone's feelings, but it's very hard to be like that, especially when the athletes are 18 to 22 years old. And, you know, some of them watch me compete and they're, you know, excited to talk to me. So I take that very seriously. But what I've learned to do is instead of saying, instead of critiquing it, I'll try to more point out, oh, the judges might take off for the bent leg right there. So it's more explaining how I think the judges might see it.

• 7:12Michelle Obama?

  It doesn't become your personal view. You were really sort of objectively

• 7:18Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 7:19Michelle Obama?

  showing the viewers how things are scored.

• 7:21Craig Robinson?

  You're objectively showing them how subjective it is.

• 7:27Michelle Obama?

  Well, the amazing thing about gymnastics is that in order to be good at it, you have to start so young. Can, can you talk about that? Why is it that you need to, you know, kids who are really interested and are going to be serious gymnasts, how young do they recommend you starting? Why is that? Can you talk a bit about, you know, the sport itself and what it takes to become good?

• 7:53Speaker 00

  I started when I was two years old with mommy and me classes, which is so young. And I was, I'm the oldest of four, so I was lucky. My parents kind of threw me in a bunch of different sports, but I loved gymnastics the most. And I would say what I do appreciate from my parents is that it was actually, I think, the opposite of what a lot of people would expect is that as the gymnastics progressed, my mom would actually push back on my coaches and worry that I was doing too much. So it wasn't my parents pushing me to do more hours. It was actually the opposite of my parents wanting me to be able to be a kid. But even at Eight years old, if everyone was trick or treating, I might have been at the gym and maybe, you know,

• 8:38Speaker 00

  covered in chalk, running to go trick or treating late. But that was really what I wanted to do.

• 8:43Craig Robinson?

  Right. So what age were you when you thought, okay, this is something that I want to dedicate all my time to, so that I miss the trick or treating and I miss the different things?

• 8:55Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:56Craig Robinson?

  At what age did you start to say, okay, I want to be really good at this?

• 9:01Speaker 00

  I was so in love with gymnastics. And even when I was six years old, I just remember I would daydream about it all day long. I loved it so much. And I remember when I was eight years old, my mom found a VHS tape that my grandfather had recorded years prior and didn't really think anything of it. It was of the 1996 Women's Olympic Gymnastics Team from the Atlanta Olympics. And my mom put it in. I remember vividly sitting on this leather green couch in the living room and would just watch it over and over again. And my mom didn't realize that tape would change my life.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  And I remember watching that and watching the US gymnastics team win the gold medal. I remember Ukrainian gymnast Lilia Podkopaeva won the floor and the all-around. And I was just so obsessed and wanted to be there. And I think at that moment, I was watching it. And I've never had this feeling like I did when I was eight, but I watched it and I said, I'm going to go to the Olympics and I'm going to win floor. And I cannot explain it. I just knew it. And I'm not that, that's not a feeling I've had with other things in life. So it's just something about it I knew.

• 10:24Speaker 00

  And then my mom didn't know until we were watching the 2004 Olympics. And I was 10 years old and Carly Patterson was on beam, competing in the all-around final. And they showed her mom in the audience. And her mom, of course, was so nervous. And my mom was sitting with me. On the bed and my mom just said, oh, I'm so glad I'll never have to experience that one day. And now I tease my mom that jokingly that it's karma because they showed my parents in 2012 all the time and they were so nervous and so stressed.

• 10:57Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 10:57Speaker 00

  So we always joke about that, but at that moment I got so upset with my mom because I couldn't believe she didn't know that I was gonna go to the Olympics and didn't believe in me. And my mom says it was that moment. She was like, okay, I didn't know. Let's do this.

• 11:11Michelle Obama?

  I'm sorry. I didn't mean to insult you, but I'll be there. I'll get my act together to be able to support you there.

• 11:16Craig Robinson?

  So at eight years old, how many hours a day, how much time were you dedicating to training?

• 11:24Speaker 00

  At eight, I think it was probably.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  That's a good question. I think at eight, my mom would have a better memory of this, but I do remember, I think, starting at around, maybe starting around seven or eight years old, I started doing this thing called TOPS, which is Talent Opportunity Program. And it's for literally the strongest eight to 11 year old gymnasts in the country. And you go and you do all this different conditioning tests and you try to qualify for, the A team is the top 20 in the country and the B is from 21 to 40. So I remember that's where you go. It was at the Karolyi Ranch and you would go and you would try to be in front of a lot of the national team.

• 12:08Speaker 00

  It was a very, very big deal at the time. And so, um, I just remember that was so intimidating, but also so exciting. And so I think around seven, I started to train more for that. And I think there was one year when I was 11, I made the A team. But another time I just missed it by, I think, one person, but that was so intense. So that's why I trained extra. Cause it was the chance to be in front of the best coaches.

• 12:43Craig Robinson?

  You know, every time the Olympics come around, I'm reminded of that feeling you have as a kid when dreams seem impossibly big until one day they're suddenly real. It's always so impressive to see the world's best athletes achieving childhood dreams and inspiring us all. I remember watching the Olympics as a kid. I loved track and field the most because I thought those were the events that I had an outside chance of competing in. And I also watched basketball and boxing with dad. Do you remember watching the Olympics?

• 13:16Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my gosh, yeah. I mean, I liked the sport that no one had a chance of competing in, which was gymnastics. I was just amazed at the power, the danger, the thrill. Gymnasts, to me, are true athletes. But I had the privilege as first lady of having some really unique Olympic moments. I got to go to the Olympics and represent the country, attending the opening ceremonies, getting to see some of the events, which was thrilling. And every Olympics that we were in the White House, Barack and I hosted the entire Olympic team at the White House, where we got a chance to shake every athlete's hand

• 13:58Michelle Obama?

  and thank them for their service in representing the country so well. So, yes, lots of fine and exciting Olympic memories.

• 14:10Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, well, when we talk about dreaming big, as a kid, I dreamed about being an athlete in the Olympics and competing for my country and bringing home medals.

• 14:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, those are some, you know, I mean, I never dreamed of that because I was never good enough to do it. But I definitely understand the work and dedication that it takes for these athletes to reach those heights.

• 14:36Craig Robinson?

  And another person who dreamed big when they were younger and became a design trailblazer was Ralph Lauren. He had a huge vision that seemed impossible and is now one of the most iconic American designers. It's only fitting that Ralph Lauren would design the outfits for Team USA this year.

• 15:00Michelle Obama?

  In your book, because I read your book, which is amazing. You described an exercise move that I actually had to look up because I wanted to see what it was. I can't remember what it was called, but you said one of your friends could do a bunch of them in a row. And the move was you're sitting straddled on the floor. You push up, straddled, and then push up to a handstand?

• 15:23Speaker 00

  Press handstand.

• 15:24Michelle Obama?

  Press handstands.

• 15:26Speaker 00

  I did not like those.

• 15:27Michelle Obama?

  And you would, and how many of the, so part of, you had to do, like you said, your friend could do like 620 of those in a row?

• 15:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, you had to do 10 of them. And my hips are probably still messed up from them. I do not like them. They're so hard because you, yeah, you, your elbows are straight and your elbows are shoulder width apart and your legs are straddled. And your, your legs are sort of at the spot of your elbow. So you're lifting up and then you lift your hips all the way up into a handstand position and then slowly come down into that straddle position without touching your bum or your legs or anything to the ground. And we were supposed to do 10 in a row.

• 16:13Michelle Obama?

  So you come up and down and up and down.

• 16:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, so hard.

• 16:16Michelle Obama?

  That's crazy.

• 16:18Speaker 00

  I, I think back now, because I've been out of the sport for a long time. I just, I don't know how I did it. Because it was so intense, but I just loved it. And I can't explain, it was this obsession.

• 16:31Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, but people don't understand how, how hard it is to be an elite level athlete. And, and even in basketball, which I know, you can't luck into it, right? There's a lot of hard work. And just to do those things that you hated doing, you had to train to be able to do it. So the amount of, the amount of willpower is what I like to call it, that it takes to do the training. Because that's the hard part is getting up at 6:30 in the morning and doing it. And you talk about how you loved it so much. But were there ever times where you were like, you know what, I need to rethink this.

• 17:14Craig Robinson?

  I, so can you talk to our audience about?

• 17:19Craig Robinson?

  How that felt and how you combated that feeling?

• 17:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, there were definitely moments where I wanted to quit. I think that I really credit my mom and dad a lot because they really did give me the freedom and always told me, if you don't want to do it anymore, we will understand. And they did walk the walk. If I didn't do well at a competition, I saw, growing up, other parents that were not happy with their kids if they didn't do well.

• 17:51Craig Robinson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:52Speaker 00

  And it was just, it's devastating because we're already our own biggest critic. Our coaches are hard on us. And so I think, knowing that, you know, if I, there was one competition I didn't do as well, and it's, my mom would be not upset with me if I didn't do well. She'd be upset if I wasn't a good sport. And she didn't feel that I congratulated the other athletes enough, or she felt like I was pouting or upset, or kind of wanted to stay in my room and not wanting to go out to dinner with everyone. That was when she was upset. But I think I put so much pressure on myself when I was younger that it sometimes got in the way as I got better of me loving it.

• 18:31Speaker 00

  And then as I got older, I knew I was good at it, that I almost felt guilty if I didn't want to do it anymore, I wanted a break, because I knew that I had put so much into it. And as I got older, around 14 years old, that's when I started to feel the pressure to lose weight, which is just, I look back, I was so tiny, so thin, and...

• 18:55Michelle Obama?

  Where was that, where did that come from? Did that come from coaches? Did that come from, because I, one of the things I was surprised about, that you talked about in your book, that in all this training that you were doing with all these coaches and all these leagues, that at no point in your, your life did anybody talk about nutrition? What, looking back, what do you think, why do you think that was? I mean, how did you get to the point where you didn't know how to fuel yourself, working that hard? And nobody was teaching that?

• 19:32Speaker 00

  Yeah. I think that at the time when I was competing, a lot of...

• 19:40Speaker 00

  The coaches and national staff and I think that a lot of them.

• 19:49Speaker 00

  It's interesting because I've done sort of so much reflecting and and therapy about it over the years to to understand, but I think that they really believed that if we ate less and were thinner, or even just to the point of drinking too much water, it was so old school and so I think misunderstood nutrition about, I mean, I was even told if I drink too much water, that would impact my performance. And I I wanna, I think it's really important for anyone who's listening to know that I don't think that's true. And I think it's so critical to fuel our bodies. And I look back and when I was competing, sometimes

• 20:32Speaker 00

  my biggest stress was that my muscles were gonna cramp up because I was so, I was malnourished. I was so exhausted.

• 20:42Michelle Obama?

  And you were dehydrated.

• 20:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:43Michelle Obama?

  You were pushing hard with absolutely no fuel in your body.

• 20:47Speaker 00

  I think it was this pressure to almost fight against, as a young girl going through puberty, of course, my body's naturally gonna change and it's important that it does. And naturally, at that age, I was putting on weight as I should be.

• 21:03Michelle Obama?

  Muscle, yeah.

• 21:03Speaker 00

  And I think when I was younger, I was always taught to trust and respect elders.

• 21:10Michelle Obama?

  Yes.

• 21:11Speaker 00

  And it never occurred to me that.

• 21:16Michelle Obama?

  They didn't know what they were talking about.

• 21:17Speaker 00

  Yes. And that sometimes someone in a high position of power might not be a good person or might not be the right person for the job, or might not be steering me in the right direction. And so I think it also goes back to, I was sort of taught from a young age to not trust my gut and to always want approval from other people and that their opinions mattered more than mine. And so I've really worked to be aware of that and try to.

• 21:51Speaker 00

  Unlearn that in that way, but it was, you know, I think also the the way that the national team also was set up for so long was that only people allowed in were the ones who would allow that, you know, corrupt system to keep going.

• 22:09Michelle Obama?

  It was a very closed door.

• 22:11Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 22:12Michelle Obama?

  You know.

• 22:12Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 22:13Michelle Obama?

  You have to buy into the philosophy.

• 22:15Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 22:16Craig Robinson?

  And you know, if I, if I could jump in there because I, I remember when basketball coaches used to think in a archaic way. And, you know, I mean, and it wasn't until

• 22:31Craig Robinson?

  it wasn't, and I'm not sure about this, but it wasn't until basketball became a sport that was televised all over the place. So people were, wanted to come to practice and people started seeing inside of what was going on, that things started changing. And you're at a point now where if, you know, gymnastics is going to be on TV a lot more now, you're going to be commentating on it. You're going to have the ability to speak to some of these things and, and sort of help the system fix itself. And I'm really looking forward to that.

• 23:04Speaker 00

  Thank you. Me too. Thank you. It's, I actually remember in 2016,

• 23:13Speaker 00

  it was, there was, I believe there was an article about me and Simone Biles because we had talked about in interviews at the time, how we were told that we didn't have the right body for gymnastics. And the article said something, it was very supportive of us and it was saying something of, you know, quote, "Our, you know, bad bodies for gymnastics got us 11 Olympic medals," or, or something like that. And I just remember,

• 23:38Speaker 00

  you know, we, we talk about that a lot is just how

• 23:43Speaker 00

  You know, for so long, I always thought that I didn't have the right body for gymnastics, or it wasn't enough. And now, I think it's, it's changing where, you know, regardless of what body type you have, that's what makes gymnastics so beautiful. And that's why I love watching it, is because you have one athlete who excels on one event, and then another that excels on a different event. And I think what's really cool is that it's just, there's no right or wrong way to do it, and you kind of make it your own. I think body dysmorphia is such a real thing, and something that so many people struggle with. And being aware of even how I view my own body, how I speak about my body,

• 24:26Speaker 00

  because it impacts other people. And I want people to feel good in the body that they're in. And I think it's, it's something I'm very passionate about, because so many of my friends are so hard on themselves and so insecure.

• 24:42Michelle Obama?

  No one, especially among women, we're never happy with what God gave us. We're all always picking apart ourselves, and we're being picked apart. We are taught to be, to hate ourselves and the packages that we're in. So it's first beginning to say, you didn't, we didn't do this to ourselves, right? But we will, together, have to work on undoing it, you know, take back that power. And you're doing a great job at it.

• 25:14Craig Robinson?

  All right, Ally, I want to talk about what it's like to be in the Olympics.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 25:19Craig Robinson?

  Because Misha already said she wanted to be a gymnast.

• 25:22Michelle Obama?

  So desperately.

• 25:23Craig Robinson?

  I grew up.

• 25:24Michelle Obama?

  So I'm in awe.

• 25:25Craig Robinson?

  I, I.

• 25:26Michelle Obama?

  I bow down.

• 25:26Speaker 00

  Me too.

• 25:28Craig Robinson?

  We, we, we both grew up going to day camp. And at our day camp, they didn't have gymnastics, but they had a lot of the Olympic events, like track and field, and volleyball. And, and it was sort of like a summer camp Olympics. So I would like you to share with us what it felt like to, to be there. You already made the team. What, what did it feel like to compete?

• 25:59Speaker 00

  Okay. Okay, I think that, I think the actual competition itself. So I remember the first moment of competing for the first time. So in gymnastics, we only get to see the arena one quick practice before we compete. So you, every single piece of equipment in gymnastics feels different. Because there's different brands of equipment, so some might be a little bit bouncier, or harder, or maybe slippery. It's just a different feel, and the lights in the arena, you might be flipping upside down and the lights might hit you. It's just very different than what you're used to. And I remember, I somehow convinced myself that not a lot of people would watch it.

• 26:44Speaker 00

  So I, I didn't-

• 26:46Craig Robinson?

  Did you watch the Olympics?

• 26:47Speaker 00

  Yes, yes. I was 18 years old.

• 26:49Michelle Obama?

  No one's here.

• 26:49Craig Robinson?

  Talk about positive thinking there.

• 26:51Speaker 00

  Yes, I just thought, okay, well, there's probably not going to be a lot of people that watch this. And then I thought, I'm just going to pretend that I'm not here, but then everywhere you look is Olympic rings. So we had the one practice, then qualification is one of the most important days. Because it's how you qualify for everything. So if you are number one in the world, but you have an off day, you might not advance to any of the event finals. It's how you qualify for team all around in any of the individuals. And what's really hard is they have the two per country rule. So even if the Americans go one, two, three, even though, yeah, the American that's in third place, even though they're third in the world, they still won't get to advance.

• 27:32Speaker 00

  So it's really competitive and it's so heartbreaking. It's so devastating.

• 27:37Michelle Obama?

  Change the rules!

• 27:37Speaker 00

  I know, I know.

• 27:39Michelle Obama?

  Olympic committee, these are children!

• 27:41Speaker 00

  I know, I know. It's so devastating. It really is. And then also sometimes you're rooming with the athlete and maybe one of you advanced, one of you doesn't. It's just such an emotional and nerve-wracking thing and I-

• 27:54Michelle Obama?

  So you're not just hanging out, going everywhere at the Olympics, hot chocolate.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  Well, it's so funny. We were, we were next to a team- They must have been done day one because they were partying all hours of the night. But so I remember they were so loud, but we, because gymnastics is really a long stretch because we have so many meets, we're really serious there. And we're just there, we go to the gym, we sleep, we eat in the cafeteria, we loved going to the cafeteria, we were so excited to see some of the cute swimmers and some of the other athletes are having so much fun. We had, we had.

• 28:29Craig Robinson?

  Oh, that's good to hear.

• 28:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, we had, they were cute. We had fun. We, you know, we had that to look forward to. They're all so, everyone's so nice. And so we were so excited. And I loved pin trading. So I would wear my credential and I would trade pins. And because, you know, not everyone speaks the same language, we could communicate that way. So I was obsessed with it. And it's, you know, you find little things to bring you joy when it's so nerve wracking. Yes. So I remember the first moment of walking out into the competition, I had this moment of, I imagined myself on that leather green couch in my living room, I'm eight years old, and I thought, oh my God, there's going to be an eight year old kid out there who's watching me compete. And they're going to be out here one day too. And I just had this

• 29:14Speaker 00

  really special full circle moment. And then we were about to go out and my team at McHale and Maroney was like, lock it up. You can't be crying right now. She's like, we don't have time for this. You gotta get it together. And we walked out and I was a little bit emotional, but then it's so, we used to say it's hurry up and wait when you walk out, you know, they announce everyone and then you just quickly go, you have 30 seconds to warm up and it is so stressful and overwhelming. And you just got to adjust really quickly to the equipment. And then it's your first moment, because the practice, it's, there's really no one in the audience. Then you have thousands of people screaming and there's cameras.

• 29:52Michelle Obama?

  You're like, oh shoot, people are watching.

• 29:55Speaker 00

  Yes. And there's cameramen. And I actually would focus on, NBC did the broadcast. And I remember there was familiar faces that would do our gymnastics in US championships and stuff. So I would just focus on them. And in the midst of the craziness, I would think, I would see them as I was going for my floor routine and be like, okay, we're just competing in the US. This is just a meet. No one's watching this. And I would just focus on them because it was sort of, you try to find some familiarity, but it is so nerve wracking. And then in 2016, before the all around final, Simone and I.

• 30:32Speaker 00

  We were about to compete and we went to the bathroom quickly. And I remember, I looked at her and I said, "You good?" She goes, "Nope."

• 30:44Speaker 00

  And we both, I said, "I feel like I'm gonna throw up." And then we just were like, "Okay, let's just be nervous together. Let's do this together." But it was nice because even though we were competing against each other, we still felt like a team in that moment. And it was nice. It was almost a freeing thing because Simone is just so good. And, you know, when I first came back and started training again after 2012, I took a year off. And I first came back and I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna get so good. I'm gonna try to beat her on floor." And I was training so intensely. And my mom actually said something to me and my coach. She said something along the lines of, "You are pushing yourself so hard and trying to get these skills that you could hurt yourself and then you're not even gonna end up competing."

• 31:28Speaker 00

  And it was sort of an eye-opening moment. And it kind of, I think, me and my coach had this realization where, if I'm second to Simone, we would joke, getting second is basically first place.

• 31:40Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 31:40Speaker 00

  Because Simone's in her own league. Which, it just was this really freeing thing of feeling so proud of being second. And that I changed it to say, "I won the silver medal." Instead of saying, "I get first, I got second place." So I just feel like it was so cool to be able to share that experience. Because it was this sort of gift of, in this world where everything is so obsessed with winning all the time, to be able to flip it and say, you know, "I'm so proud of getting the silver medal." I don't think that's something that I heard a lot growing up. And the pressure, sometimes the media wouldn't have us on if we didn't win. So it just was, it was very cool to be able to share with my teammates.

• 32:24Speaker 00

  And I think the reason that we did so well is because we would communicate with each other. And, you know, the five of us, it was, we sort of only, we were the only ones who sort of understood what it was like.

• 32:35Michelle Obama?

  Do you ever sit back and just sort of...

• 32:41Michelle Obama?

  Realize that what you were able to do, literally, there, there are like a handful of people. I mean gymnastics is one of the most awe inspiring, most difficult and dangerous sports there, there is. I mean, and because it's a bunch of cute little girls in leotards doing it, it's almost like people treat it like it's a ballet performance. But it's not. What, what gymnasts can do, what you were able to do was miraculous. Like in basketball, everybody can play basketball. You know?

• 33:21Craig Robinson?

  No, they can't.

• 33:22Michelle Obama?

  No, everybody can dribble a ball. Everybody can. I can give you a ball, you can dribble.

• 33:27Craig Robinson?

  I'm sure you can, she can.

• 33:28Michelle Obama?

  You can, you can, you can shoot at the basket. You can participate, right? Most sports, you can. I'm not talking about doing it well.

• 33:37Craig Robinson?

  No, I know what you mean.

• 33:37Michelle Obama?

  I'm talking about like.

• 33:39Craig Robinson?

  I know where you're going.

• 33:40Michelle Obama?

  Gym, there are few sports where no one can do what you can do. No one, no one can come close to doing what you can do. But I think we take that for granted. We don't spend enough time. It's such a subjective hairpins sport. You know, and just hearing you describe how one skill leads to another. It's like just even the way you do a back bend or the way your feet land. I mean, it is so precise to be able to get to the next element. That, and then if you fail, you fall hard and far. And you all are small, you know?

• 34:20Michelle Obama?

  So you're flying at a speed, at a height, which doubles the height. Cause you're going so fast. I mean, I just look at how fast you run and hit the vault. And you're literally flying in the air. All gymnasts are doing things that the vast majority of humans cannot do. And for that, you know, everybody deserves a frickin medal.

• 34:43Speaker 00

  That's so nice.

• 34:44Michelle Obama?

  But to be the best at it, oh.

• 34:46Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 34:47Michelle Obama?

  To be the best of the best at it, like. Like, I, I hope you can.

• 34:53Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 34:54Michelle Obama?

  You know, live in that.

• 34:55Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 34:56Michelle Obama?

  That power.

• 34:57Speaker 00

  Thank you. I, I really actually, thank you. That's really meaningful. It means a lot. And honestly, if I'm ever having a tough day, I'm just gonna go back and listen to that. That's so nice. But I, I do actually really feel like I can. And I think, I really feel proud of the fact that my, it used, my worth used to be determined by my result. And I feel really detached, in a good way, from my gymnastics career, in the sense that I do feel really proud of it. But I also feel it's been such a gift to see all the amazing places that I've gotten to go from it.

• 35:40Speaker 00

  And being here is such a pinch me moment, to be able to be here with both of you and to see all the people that I get to meet. And I feel really proud of it's made me into the person that I am.

• 35:50Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 35:50Speaker 00

  But I think I have, our culture's obsessed with success.

• 35:56Craig Robinson?

  Yes.

• 35:56Speaker 00

  And I'm grateful that I experienced it at a young age, so I know that winning or success didn't make me happy, maybe for a moment. But I think what really has made me happy is really trying to peel back all those layers, figure out the lessons that I've learned, the things that I maybe wanna unlearn, working through the trauma and, and all the complicated things, and really figuring out who I am outside of all of that.

• 36:37Craig Robinson?

  Well, you know, the, the, that brings me to where you are now, or not where you are now, but you know, at some point, you retire from the sport. And it's no secret that most athletes, elite athletes, don't handle retirement well. Or they, their, their, their second career is not as successful as their first career. And it's, the, the streets are littered with athletes who are down and out.

• 37:13Craig Robinson?

  Financially, but more so emotionally and mentally. And so you talk about being in a better space and, you know, the producers and I talked about how the lead athletes suffered two deaths, right? Their first death is when they have to retire. And so can you talk about how you have mentally and emotionally combated that? And made yourself into where you're enjoying gardening and enjoying hanging with your family? And doing things that normal people do when you've been at such heights?

• 37:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's interesting. I find a lot of athletes will ask me for my perspective on what my experience was like retiring from the sport. And I think that mine is unique because I was so burnt out and so ready to be done. So I actually think I had the opposite where I couldn't even step in a gym for a really long time because I was so traumatized and I had PTSD and I didn't want anything to do with gymnastics. And I, and I really think that commentating college gymnastics has been so special because it's, it's really helped me re-fall in love with the sport and see it sort of through a different lens.

• 38:35Speaker 00

  I think for a really long time, I, I've struggled with if my gymnastics career was worth it. And that was really hard for me because I spent so much of my life doing it. I had a lot of success in the sport and I just had a really hard time separating the trauma and the hardship that I endured during it and the bad people that I was around from. I had a hard time sort of, it felt like it was in a knot with the wonderful people I met in the sport and the wonderful times. And I feel like through years of therapy, and I'm still, right? Even this past week, I'm doing exposure therapy on some of the trauma that I've experienced. I'm still working on it.

• 39:20Michelle Obama?

  Can you talk a little bit about what that?

• 39:22Speaker 00

  Of course, yeah.

• 39:23Michelle Obama?

  That's like if you're comfortable?

• 39:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course. So for those who don't know what exposure therapy is, and obviously I'm not an expert. I'm just sharing what my therapist has, has told me. But basically for me, what I'm doing right now is if there is something that.

• 39:40Speaker 00

  Um, is really triggering me, um, and really upsetting me. And, uh, it's something that's coming up for me a lot. I'm thinking about it a lot and it doesn't necessarily have to be something that, uh, is a memory that I'm having. It could be like, for example, I get really upset if I hear that a child is being mistreated. If I see something in the news, if I hear something someone says. And my therapist will say, of course, that's a normal reaction to be upset, but I can't stop thinking about it and I get, I have trouble sleeping. I'm, I might have a nightmare about it. It's, I cannot stop thinking about it and then I want to do something about it.

• 40:23Speaker 00

  But because my anxiety is so bad, I'm, then I feel really nauseous. I don't feel good and I'm almost working myself up so much that I feel like I can't think clearly enough to think, okay, how can I help? And also recognizing that it's impossible for me to save everyone. And I, I have a hard time if I hear, if I'm listening to a podcast that randomly brings it up. I have a really hard time with, um, going on with my day without worrying about it and just sort of

• 40:54Craig Robinson?

  Mm-hmm.

• 40:55Speaker 00

  being in that. So the exposure therapy that I'm working on then is now going through my own memories of my own experiences to try to sort of expose myself to that. Or it could be, um, listening to a podcast that might trigger me where I'm exposing myself to whatever the trauma is. Um, but right now I'm specifically doing it where I wrote a journal entry about a traumatic memory with, from myself that my therapist thinks is related to why I have such a strong reaction to hearing something, um, that's really upsetting to me. And then I will read it, try to read it most days.

• 41:39Speaker 00

  But for example, last week, my, I, my nausea was so bad from just reading it. I was having such an intense reaction that for a few days I was struggling to eat because I was getting so sick from just reading my journal entry.

• 41:53Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 41:54Speaker 00

  And so my therapist was saying, The fact you're having such a strong reaction shows how much you need to do this because it's affecting you so much. And I've struggled so much with health stuff with not feeling good, which I think is also PTSD and trauma related of just my body is feeling so much. And so I was doing it every single day, even though it was really, really hard. And then it's slowly getting a little bit better. But it's something where I might have to read that journal entry for three months or six months. And then the goal is that when I read it, it gets a little bit easier and I'm able to acknowledge. You know, my therapist said, I'm never going to get to the point

• 42:37Speaker 00

  where I'm saying, okay, that happened to me. I'm good, whatever. Of course, it's always going to be something that I wish never happened to me or anyone else. But I think I get to the point where I have a little bit of a a response that feels more manageable.

• 42:55Michelle Obama?

  So the work that you're doing and sharing, your process. I don't know that there's anybody that's talking as honestly and as openly just about what they're going through and how you're succeeding, even if it's just small steps.

• 43:13Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 43:13Michelle Obama?

  That is just a process that you just keep at it.

• 43:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:17Michelle Obama?

  Right?

• 43:18Speaker 00

  Thank you. Yeah, it's, I feel like the last couple of years, I've really worked on prioritizing my personal life more. And I never thought I would be at a place going from being, you know, obsessed with trying to be at the Olympics to then last week celebrating, I was able to eat dinner tonight and I didn't feel so nauseous. And I feel like I've really been able to take these little wins. And so I've just learned to, I'm trying to give myself permission to, if I have a tough day, I'm not going to feel like this forever. It's going to be okay, but it's, it's hard. So I just want to validate anyone who's having that tough time, that it's, you're not going to feel like this forever. And it's tough.

• 44:16Craig Robinson?

  Well, this is, we try and help our listeners with the, to answer a question on each episode. And this is a perfect time to get to the question, so.

• 44:27Speaker 03

  I'm a 40-year-old woman living in New York. Professionally, I've been successful. But personally, the last five years have been full of loss and heartbreak. I lost my mother, went through a divorce, became estranged from my father, and have faced repeated disappointments in dating. My most recent relationship ended on the same day I learned I had a fractured hip and would need weeks on crutches. My question is, in the face of grief, failed relationships, setbacks, how do you keep hope alive that building a family and quote, "having it all" is still possible? Chris in New York City.

• 45:08Craig Robinson?

  No one more qualified to answer that than you. You want to give it a crack?

• 45:13Speaker 00

  Sure. Okay. Well, Chris, I want to say I know it takes a lot of courage to be vulnerable like that. And I just wanted to acknowledge and validate how you're feeling and acknowledge that that does sound really hard.

• 45:34Speaker 00

  I

• 45:38Speaker 00

  I want to start by saying that I know it can feel so hard because we're often our own biggest critics. And sometimes, at least for myself, it feels kind of funny or silly to try to think about how we're talking to ourselves internally. And sometimes we're really hard on ourselves in a way that we probably wouldn't be to someone that we love or care about. So I would say try to be kind to yourself and try to be there for yourself in a way that you would be to maybe the younger version of yourself or a young kid. And just try to.

• 46:21Speaker 00

  If you're having a tough day, know that you're human. It's okay to have tough days.

• 46:29Speaker 00

  And I also would say, give yourself permission to take it day by day. So if there is something that brings you a lot of joy, or there's something that you're thinking, I wish I did more of this. I wish I baked more. I wish I saw this friend more. Give yourself permission to do that. And sometimes on my toughest days, when I'm feeling really upset, obviously, I know a lot of people talk about unplugging and being in nature, and all those things are really wonderful. But if there's just a day where you feel so consumed by your anxiety, you know, give yourself permission to just, sometimes you just want to go and watch TV and watch something or read a book that kind of distracts you and takes you away from everything. Just give yourself permission to do that. But then I also will say,

• 47:15Speaker 00

  find things that bring you calm. I saw something that says if you don't have five minutes for yourself, you need a full hour. So give yourself permission to do things that bring you calm and bring you joy because you deserve that. And I am sorry that things are not going the way that you want them to and that you deserve, because you deserve to have a beautiful life. And so I just want to acknowledge that you're totally valid to feel how you feel. And I want to give you permission to do something that will bring you joy and bring you calm. And if you don't know what that is, that's also okay.

• 47:59Speaker 00

  But give yourself some time to think about what that is, because you deserve to have that.

• 48:05Michelle Obama?

  That's beautiful. That's beautiful.

• 48:08Craig Robinson?

  Very wise from a youngster.

• 48:10Michelle Obama?

  I know. My God. You sound like you've been on this earth many times before.

• 48:17Michelle Obama?

  I think that what I, and I, I will follow, follow Ally and acknowledge, you know, the realness of those feelings and those fears because there's nothing worse than someone telling you, ah, that's not a problem. Don't worry about it. I'm trying for my daughters, for example, I'm, I'm trying to make sure that I am conscious about the language I, I, I use about even asking them about their future. Right? Because sometimes our traditional questions of so, when are you going to get married? And how many kids do you want to have? Presumes that that is the end of the rainbow. And we don't always control that, you know?

• 49:01Michelle Obama?

  I mean, you don't control necessarily whether you find the person that you fall in love with, you know, and there are plenty of people who, because they want the marriage, they just fall in love and marry the person right there. And therein lies unhappiness at the end of that because you weren't thinking about who you want to be with. You were thinking, I should be with somebody because our definitions of happiness can be so narrow. How, how often are we really exploring, how do we feel? Not how do, do other people make us feel? How do we make other people feel? But how do we want to feel? And I, I would urge her to spend some more time on that

• 49:45Michelle Obama?

  internal exploration. And before you know it, the day has gone by, a week has gone by, and maybe she's not focusing on what she doesn't have, but she's focusing on what she has and what she can build within her own power, whether she's married or had, has kids. And that's something that she can control forever and ever. And then there's still room for life to happen, you know? That doesn't mean she has to close off any possibilities, but she's not stagnated and waiting for life to happen, you know? It's like, keep living your life while, while your

• 50:27Michelle Obama?

  life is unfolding. And then be, be in a position of gratitude for whatever life brings you. Because there is true joy in all those options that lay before you. It's just how you think about it.

• 50:42Craig Robinson?

  That's good.

• 50:43Speaker 00

  That's powerful.

• 50:44Craig Robinson?

  That's really good. Well, Chris, you've got many choices.

• 50:52Craig Robinson?

  But what struck me is when you said, do what brings you calm. Yeah.

• 50:58Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, that's that feeling. Like you want to feel calm.

• 51:00Craig Robinson?

  Feel calm first and then come up with a solution. Ally, this has been terrific.

• 51:07Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 51:07Michelle Obama?

  You are incredible on so many different levels, you know? I mean, I am just in awe of the work that you're doing in the world. And the work that you're doing on yourself is work that's impacting the world. So you, you know, I mean, please don't rush your process. I mean, please just keep following the trajectory that you're on and keep sharing it.

• 51:39Craig Robinson?

  Keep talking about it.

• 51:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 51:41Craig Robinson?

  Keep talking about it.

• 51:42Speaker 00

  Thank you all so much.

• 51:43Michelle Obama?

  Yeah. Really proud of you.

• 51:46Speaker 00

  Thank you. That means the world.

• 52:08Craig Robinson?

  This episode is brought to you by Cologuard. I knew that I shouldn't delay screening for colon cancer, and Cologuard has made that process one million times easier for all of us. I just answered a few questions about my age and medical history. And once their licensed clinician determined I was eligible, they issued the prescription and the Cologuard Plus kit was sent right to my home. No doctor's office visit necessary. For me, there was just immediate relief in getting it done. It cost me $0 with my insurance. It took me truly 15 minutes. And now I can rest easier knowing I screened properly. Plus, if you get a negative result, you generally don't need a repeat Cologuard test for three years. If you're four.

• 52:53Craig Robinson?

  45 or older and at average risk, it's time to screen for colon cancer, even if you feel perfectly healthy. And Cologuard Plus gives you an option you can use right at home. Talk to your health care provider about screening for colon cancer with Cologuard or request it online today at Cologuard.com, where they have an easy telehealth option. Don't wait. Cologuard products are intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use if you have had a personal history of colorectal cancer or polyps, have inflammatory bowel disease, a family history of colorectal cancer or certain hereditary syndromes, or a positive result from another colon cancer screening method within that test-recommended screening interval. Cologuard results should be interpreted with caution as false positives and false negatives do occur. Available by prescription only.