SERIAL KILLER: The Dating Game Killer Pt. 1

Long before he appeared on "The Dating Game," Rodney Alcala was a violent predator. "Killer Minds" examines the early life and psychological unraveling of one of America’s most manipulative serial killers, revealing how Alcala's love of photography became a tool for stalking, control, and murder. Killer Minds is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. For ad-free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House+ on Apple Podcasts. Don’t miss out on all things Killer Minds! Instagram: @Crimehouse https://www.instagram.com/crimehouse/ TikTok: @Crimehouse https://www.tiktok.com/@crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios https://www.facebook.com/crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia https://x.com/crimehousemedia YouTube: @crimehousestudios https://www.youtube.com/@crimehousestudios

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Hi, everyone. Before today's episode, there's another show I want to tell you about. It's called What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Plus, Connor's infectious energy that'll make you realize history is the most fascinating thing on earth. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  This is Crime House.

• 0:41Vanessa Richardson?

  One of the easiest ways to make friends is through common interests. Maybe you bond over a favorite movie, or decide to hang out after yoga class. Whatever it is, it's easier to build trust when there's already something you share. And for Rodney Alcala, he manipulated that trust for dark purposes. In the 1960s and 70s, Rodney used his interest in photography to get on people's good sides. Wherever he went, he brought his camera and offered to take their pictures. He flattered others with compliments, and even invited them to modeling sessions. But through his lens, Rodney didn't see beauty or intrigue.

• 1:25Vanessa Richardson?

  He saw his next victim.

• 1:42Vanessa Richardson?

  The human mind is powerful. It shapes how we think, feel, love, and hate. But sometimes it drives people to commit the unthinkable. This is Killer Minds, a Crime House original. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

• 1:57Tristin Engels?

  And I'm Dr. Tristin Engels. Every Monday and Thursday, we uncover the darkest minds in history, analyzing what makes a killer.

• 2:06Vanessa Richardson?

  Crime House is made possible by you. Please rate, review, and follow Killer Minds. To enhance your listening experience with ad-free, early access to each two-part series and bonus content, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts.

• 2:22Vanessa Richardson?

  Before we get started, be advised this episode contains descriptions of kidnapping, sexual assault, child abuse, and murder. Today, we begin our deep dive into Rodney Alcala, also known as the Dating Game Killer. In the late 1970s, Rodney appeared on a popular TV dating show and charmed the audience with his quick wit and easygoing smile. But no one knew that the man lighting up their screens was a violent and sadistic murderer.

• 2:53Tristin Engels?

  As Vanessa goes through the story, I'll be talking about things like the tactics a killer might use to lure their victims, Rodney's need to exert control over others, and why some killers use sexual violence for shock value.

• 3:07Vanessa Richardson?

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• 5:52Vanessa Richardson?

  Rodney Alcala's early life was relatively unremarkable. He was born in San Antonio, Texas, on August 23rd, 1943, the third of four children. The Alcalas lived in a middle-class neighborhood, and Rodney and his siblings attended Catholic school. Rodney's grades were always good. His teachers said he was dedicated, smart, and respectful. That behavior carried on throughout his childhood, even when things got tough. In 1951, when Rodney was about eight years old, his family moved to Mexico to be closer to his ailing grandmother. He enjoyed spending time with her, which only made it harder when she died about three years later.

• 6:36Vanessa Richardson?

  And things only got worse shortly after, when his father suddenly abandoned their family. Looking for a fresh start, Rodney's mom moved their family to Los Angeles in 1954, when he was about 11. Through middle and high school, Rodney kept thriving. He was handsome, charming, and never had a problem dating, all while keeping his grades up. And it seems like he wanted to do something special with his life. In 1961, Rodney graduated from high school shortly before he turned 18. His older brother was attending West Point Military Academy at the time, and Rodney wanted to follow in his footsteps. However, he took a slightly different route.

• 7:19Vanessa Richardson?

  Even though Rodney was a great student, it seemed he preferred more hands-on action than desk work, so he headed to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, to become an Army paratrooper. The Army tested Rodney's intelligence when he enlisted. He scored over 140 on his IQ test, putting him in the near-genius category. Rodney probably wasn't shocked to hear this. He'd been told his whole life how smart and promising he was. However, during his first year at Fort Bragg, someone began to see a different side of him. Rodney's commanding officer found him to be manipulative and unaccountable for his actions.

• 8:01Vanessa Richardson?

  We don't know what Rodney did to make his CO think this, but this behavior coincided with his father's death in 1962. Even though he'd walked out on Rodney's family, the loss seemed to hit him hard. After his father's passing, Rodney went AWOL a couple of times. During those periods, he'd go out drinking. On a few occasions, he harassed women, even exposing himself to them. He also assaulted women.

• 8:30Tristin Engels?

  Even when someone seems to have it all together, they can be deeply affected by sudden loss and early life instability, especially in the military. Rodney experienced, like you mentioned, abandonment, multiple moves, including to another country, and then the sudden death of his father. Experiences like that can make the world feel unpredictable and unsafe and Can interfere with developing healthy coping skills and social skills. And then Rodney enters the military, which is a highly controlled environment. Every moment of your day is scheduled. Every action is typically monitored and authority goes unquestioned in the military. A major loss in an environment like that could have felt suffocating because the military

• 9:15Tristin Engels?

  demands obedience, even during times when people might be craving independence and control, like a death in the family. And this could partially explain the sudden change in his behavior and why he went AWOL. A controlling environment can intensify stress, frustration, and even impulsive behaviors, especially if the person already struggles with emotional regulation. He's also still developing his frontal lobe. So even if he appears outwardly high functioning, the combination of early abandonment, sudden parental loss, and a rigid controlling environment can impact coping and it can also amplify risk-taking or manipulative behaviors.

• 9:55Vanessa Richardson?

  How does the violence against women factor in? Is it possible that when Rodney harassed and assaulted women, he was trying to exert control over them? And if so, how might that need to exert control relate back to his trauma and grief over his father's death?

• 10:10Tristin Engels?

  Those early childhood experiences and the instability likely disrupted his ability to form secure, long-term attachments. After moving to another country to live with his grandmother, who passed shortly thereafter, which is a loss or possibly even an abandonment for him in itself, he experienced that additional loss when his father left the family. And that left him primarily in his mother's care. And those early deficits in connection could have contributed to maladaptive relational patterns where women became symbolic of connection, validation, or a domain over which he could exert control. So regarding control, this actually aligns with research showing that power and control are often central dynamics in sexually coercive or predatory behavior.

• 10:55Tristin Engels?

  And this can relate back to his father's death because it could have reactivated unresolved attachment wounds and intensified feelings of unpredictability or powerlessness in his life, especially while in a controlled military environment. Because in the civilian world, when someone passes, we have more autonomy to be around family, attend services, or take certain amounts of time off into coping ways that people in the military don't necessarily have because of their service obligations. And all of this could have contributed to maladaptive ways of asserting dominance in response to external pressures and feelings of powerlessness.

• 11:32Vanessa Richardson?

  Whatever it was that motivated Rodney's shift in behavior, he'd gone from promising young man to loose cannon. The details on these incidents aren't clear, but in 1963, a year after his father's death, Rodney went AWOL again, this time for good. One day, he showed up at his mother's doorstep in LA. She was shocked to see him and insisted he turn himself in to avoid being arrested. Rodney did as his mother told him, but instead of putting him in handcuffs, the Army tried to help him. Based on his recent behavior, they thought Rodney was having a nervous breakdown. They sent him to get a psychiatric evaluation. The doctor didn't find signs of anxiety or depression.

• 12:17Vanessa Richardson?

  Instead, Rodney was diagnosed with chronic and severe antisocial personality disorder.

• 12:23Tristin Engels?

  Okay, so at 19 years old, this is a really significant finding. Clinicians don't diagnose this disorder lightly. So there had to have been very concerning and persistent patterns of behavior that were evident across different settings and that were not just isolated incidents. So there's been more that was going on with Rodney that maybe we don't even know about. It suggests that these traits were ingrained and they were enduring, rather than a temporary response to stress or an environment. So today, in order to be diagnosed with this, there needs to be evidence of conduct disorder before the age of 15, which didn't seem to be the case here that we know of. However, that criteria about conduct disorder wasn't in place until 1980 in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

• 13:07Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, they definitely saw something going on because after that, Rodney was honorably discharged, which meant he never had to explain the truth to future schools or employers. But before jumping into anything, Rodney wanted to blow off some steam. And in the 1960s, LA was the perfect place for him to do that. Over the next five years, Rodney became a regular at local nightclubs. His favorite one was an underage club, full of teenagers. He'd hang out there every weekend, even after he turned 21. It seems like Rodney was interested in much younger girls, and he devised a sinister strategy to lure them in.

• 13:48Vanessa Richardson?

  In 1965, 22-year-old Rodney had recently enrolled in a photography program at UCLA. He brought his camera with him to the club every night. He'd tell the girls there how beautiful they were, and that they should pursue modeling. Sometimes, he invited them back to his place for photo shoots. Nobody working at the club seemed to catch on, or if they did, they didn't question Rodney's weird behavior.

• 14:14Tristin Engels?

  So people with antisocial personality disorder often have a pattern of exploiting others for their own gain. They lack empathy, they don't conform to societal rules or norms, they have difficulty respecting boundaries, and they often engage in manipulative behaviors. In Rodney's case, photography provided a socially acceptable facade. He could appear charming, creative, and nurturing, while also subtly grooming and exerting control over his subjects. And younger girls, especially those who trusted him, became targets because he could flatter them, he could gain compliance, and he can establish an influence over them without immediate suspicion. They were easy to overpower in all the ways a person can overpower someone.

• 14:58Tristin Engels?

  It was clearly a manipulative strategy and a calculated means to fulfill psychological needs for control, dominance, and gratification, which are consistent with traits of antisocial personality disorder.

• 15:10Vanessa Richardson?

  We actually covered Jeffrey Dahmer a while ago, so he also used photography to lure in his victims. And in his case, it was underage boys, sometimes. How do you think Rodney compares to Jeffrey Dahmer?

• 15:22Tristin Engels?

  It's remarkably similar. Photography was integral to their methods of gaining trust, isolating victims, and establishing control. The camera allowed both of them to present themselves as trustworthy and engaging to unsuspecting victims and lure them to another location, one that was controlled and isolated. And we know from research that being taken to another location is a classic tactic in predatory behavior because the perpetrator can exert dominance and manipulate the situation and reduce the victim's ability to escape or seek help. Dahmer, though, also used photography to document his victims, and those photographs served as a trophy or a memento for him, among many other trophies. So it's also likely that the camera was not just a way to gain trust for Rodney,

• 16:07Tristin Engels?

  but served as something more.

• 16:10Vanessa Richardson?

  Rodney's strategy was sadly quite effective, especially since a lot of the girls found him attractive. He was tall with a sharp jawline, and his wavy, shoulder-length brown hair was in fashion. Among those who fell under his spell was 13-year-old Morgan Rowan. Morgan heard rumors that when Rodney took girls back to his place, he didn't just photograph them. Things sometimes got physical, but as far as Morgan knew, it was never anything more than a make-out session. However, sometime in 1965, Morgan learned how Rodney actually treated girls. They were both out at the club one night and started chatting. At some point in the conversation, Morgan flirtatiously touched Rodney's arm.

• 16:55Vanessa Richardson?

  Something about that set him off. He grabbed Morgan, dragged her into an alley behind the club, and knocked her out. When Morgan woke up, she was lying in the alley. She had no idea how much time had passed, but her head was throbbing. Meanwhile, Rodney was gone. Once she was certain Rodney had left, Morgan found the club's owner and his wife. They helped her get home safe. Although it doesn't seem like Rodney got into any legal trouble, but he was banned from the club for life. Morgan was too scared to tell anyone what had happened, and three years later, she ran into Rodney again.

• 17:34Vanessa Richardson?

  One night in 1968, sixteen-year-old Morgan was hanging out in Hollywood when her friend recognized a few people on the streets. Later that evening, they all ended up back at his place. Morgan didn't want to go in, but she didn't have a ride home, so she had no choice but to eventually follow along. Unfortunately, she was right to be afraid. When Rodney saw Morgan walk in, he stopped what he was doing, grabbed her, and dragged her into his bedroom. Then he barricaded the door with a metal bar. He attacked Morgan, beating her so violently he broke some of her ribs. At one point, he gagged her with a leather belt, then sexually assaulted her.

• 18:17Vanessa Richardson?

  Afterward, Rodney strangled Morgan with his bare hands until she passed out. Fortunately, Morgan's friends realized something was wrong. When they couldn't open the bedroom door, one of them went outside and broke through the window. The sound of the shattering glass stirred Morgan awake. Her friends piled into the room and took Morgan to safety. All Rodney said as they pulled her away was, quote, "Take her." The experience was so terrifying, Morgan was still too afraid to tell her parents the truth. Instead, she told them she got hurt in a car accident. As a result, Rodney avoided facing serious consequences. He was beginning to feel invincible.

• 19:01Vanessa Richardson?

  No matter what dark desires surfaced, he could hide them in plain sight until he was ready to strike. But soon, someone called his bluff. On the morning of September 25th, 1968, shortly after Rodney's second attack on Morgan, a man named Donald Haynes was driving down Sunset Boulevard. On his way to work, he noticed a car ahead of him pull up alongside a girl. She seemed around eight years old and was carrying schoolbooks. The girl looked surprised and kept walking for a moment, like she was trying to ignore the car inching next to her. But then, she stopped walking and talked to the driver for a couple of minutes. Donald found this a little concerning.

• 19:45Vanessa Richardson?

  He pulled over so he could keep an eye on the situation, and then, the girl got into the car. Now, Donald wondered if he was watching a kidnapping unfold. He followed the car for a couple of miles to a quiet neighborhood, then watched as a man got out of the driver's seat and walked toward the building. He was tall, slim, and had shoulder-length brown hair. The girl got out and followed him, but she stayed a few paces back. The man turned around and coaxed her up the walkway. They entered one of the units, and Donald ran to a payphone to call the police. LAPD Officer Chris Camacho quickly arrived. After a few knocks, a man appeared in the window next to the door.

• 20:30Vanessa Richardson?

  Camacho asked him to open up, but the man said he'd just gotten out of the shower and had to put clothes on. Then, he disappeared back into the apartment. Camacho wasn't buying it. The officer put his ear to the door to try and figure out what was going on. That's when he heard a faint groaning sound coming from inside. It sounded like a young girl, and she seemed badly hurt. Camacho stepped back and kicked in the door. There in the living room, the girl was lying in a pool of blood with a heavy metal bar across her neck. The man was nowhere to be seen. Camacho called an ambulance,

• 21:10Vanessa Richardson?

  and the girl, identified as eight-year-old Tali Shapiro, was rushed to the hospital. She spent some time in a coma, but thanks to Officer Camacho, Donald Haynes, and her medical team, she was able to recover. Meanwhile, Camacho and a team of officers searched the apartment. They found a wallet with an ID for a man named Rodney Alcala. They also found Rodney's student ID and learned he was studying photography at UCLA. But soon, the officers discovered that Rodney wasn't just doing what he was taught in school. All around his apartment, scattered among camera equipment, were countless disturbing photographs. There were too many to count,

• 21:54Vanessa Richardson?

  but they all showed women and children, including some who were nude.

• 22:01Tristin Engels?

  Okay, so from a forensic psychology perspective, I mean, I don't know what's more disturbing here, truly, but a collection of photographs like these reflects compulsive predatory interests and a psychological fixation on control and exploitation. When we analyze this behavior, several things become apparent. First, as I outlined, the photographs are a tool for manipulation. It shows a pattern of planning and control, and this kind of forethought is strongly associated with a potential for serious violence. But also, they serve a dual purpose. They are physical reminders of that control or conquest, and therefore could be his trophies, too. Second, the victim age progression we see from adolescent girls to younger children

• 22:46Tristin Engels?

  signals escalation in sexualized aggression and predatory risk. So in forensic terms, this can indicate increasing compulsivity, diminished inhibition or impulse control, and it's definitely a sign of severe violence risk. The younger the target, the less likely they are to resist or escape, which demonstrates a calculated approach to maximizing his control over them. All of this is really an indication that he's not just sexually motivated, but the images in those photographs and the ways he's obtaining those photographs show a willingness to act violently to satisfy that drive, which truly points to a sadistic pattern that is emerging here.

• 23:31Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, based on what the officers were seeing in those photographs, it was clear Rodney was dangerous, so they returned to the station to file charges. Meanwhile, Rodney knew the police would be looking for him. If he wanted to stay out of prison, he had to get as far away from LA as possible. So he set his sights on Manhattan. Being in another big city would hopefully let him blend into the crowd and give him the freedom to go on the hunt again. And once he arrived in the Big Apple, he was ready to unleash his darkest impulses.

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• 26:29Vanessa Richardson?

  In 1968, 25-year-old Rodney Alcala was wanted in Los Angeles for the kidnapping and assault of an eight-year-old girl. But he fled to New York City, where he was ready to find his next victim. Once he was settled in, he started walking the streets, camera in hand. Most of the time Rodney would approach women, charm them with compliments, and ask to take their pictures. Like before, he'd lure them back to his apartment with promises of a photo shoot. He didn't always hurt people when he got them there. It seems like most of the time, he used this method to take nude photographs and even for sex. But he knew he'd have more luck if he made himself seem more legitimate,

• 27:12Vanessa Richardson?

  like when he used to tell girls he went to UCLA. This time, he had his eye on NYU's prestigious film school. The semester had already begun. But one day Rodney showed up at the admissions office with his portfolio, filled with only the appropriate photos, of course. He flashed his bright smile and impressed the staff with his extensive knowledge. Not long after, Rodney was admitted.

• 27:39Tristin Engels?

  Okay, clearly, based on an established behavioral pattern that you've already outlined, Rodney very much understood the importance of credibility to gain trust. And he crafted a persona that was persuasive and trustworthy to others, especially authority figures. That's strategic intelligence. And Rodney, already, as you've said, has above-average intelligence. And intelligence is likely to amplify his violence risk because he has an enhanced ability to plan, manipulate influence, and camouflage his real self. He knew he had to show the appropriate photos. He couldn't show all of his photos. He's very calculating. He presented himself as someone knowledgeable, confident, and aligned with the school's prestigiousness to get in.

• 28:23Tristin Engels?

  And while, yes, it's true that we all do this when we are interviewing to get into a program or for a job, we present the best version of ourselves, it goes beyond that with Rodney. It's instrumental manipulation. He's exploiting the staff's Expectations and norms to bend rules in his favor. And he's using deception as a tool without any concern for ethical boundaries or consequences to others. This demonstrates how individuals with antisocial personality disorder or psychopathic traits can be chameleons who blend charm, intelligence and strategic social behavior to get their predatory goals. And in this case, creating both legitimacy and access for criminal activity, which is exactly what he's doing here.

• 29:08Vanessa Richardson?

  Rodney wasn't surprised to get exactly what he wanted, but he was on the run after all, so he still played it safe. When he filled out his enrollment paperwork, he gave an alias, John Berger. Rodney's life went on like this for the next three years, attending NYU and photographing unsuspecting women and children in his free time. We're not aware of any attacks he carried out during this period, but that doesn't mean he wasn't doing it. Especially because he also got a summer job in New Hampshire, teaching photography at an arts camp for teenagers. Much like the underage clubs in LA, the camp gave Rodney easy access to young girls,

• 29:51Vanessa Richardson?

  who also knew him as John Berger. Then, in the spring of 1971, 28-year-old Rodney graduated from NYU. With more free time on his hands, he got sick of simply telling his subjects how to smile and pose. He needed full control. So he set his sights on his next known victim. 23-year-old flight attendant Cornelia Crilly was living less than five miles from the NYU campus. She had two roommates and a devoted boyfriend. On the night of Thursday, June 24, 1971, Cornelia's mother couldn't get in touch with her, so she phoned Cornelia's boyfriend and asked him to check on her.

• 30:35Vanessa Richardson?

  But when he went to her apartment, no one answered the door. Eventually, he contacted the police. When NYPD officers arrived, they didn't see any signs of a break-in or struggle. But when they went into Cornelia's bedroom, they discovered a gruesome scene. Cornelia was dead. She'd been strangled and suffered a severe head wound. She'd also been sexually assaulted, with at least one bite mark left on her breast. Not only that, but her body had been posed in a sexually suggestive way.

• 31:08Tristin Engels?

  So the posing of a body is typically symbolic, and it can tell us a lot about the offender's mental state or even possible motivation. It's sometimes referred to as a signature behavior in forensic profiling, especially if it's consistently done, because it goes beyond what's necessary to commit the crime, and it's psychologically meaningfully to the offender. Posing is generally a continuation of the power dynamic that may have motivated the crime in the first place. One such motivation is fantasy fulfillment. In sexually motivated offenders, arranging a body in a sexually suggestive way often reflects fantasies that are central to their offending. In these cases, the act of killing doesn't just satisfy the need for violence,

• 31:51Tristin Engels?

  it reinforces erotic or sadistic gratification. Posing can also serve as a personal ritual. This might involve reliving the act, documenting the victim as an object of control, which very well could have been what Rodney was seeking to do, or it's symbolically expressing dominance. In some cases, posing a victim can be a way of sending a message, either to themselves, or to law enforcement, or even some kind of imagined audience. But overall, control is the primary motivator, whether it's control of the victim and their body even after the crime, control over the narrative or a message, or control over their own psychological experience of power and dominance, even after that act is completed.

• 32:36Vanessa Richardson?

  Regardless of why Rodney did this, the officers were determined to find the culprit. They scoured the apartment for any clues that could point them in the right direction. Unfortunately, there wasn't a lot to go on. They collected samples of some male bodily fluid found on Cornelia's body, but DNA technology wasn't advanced enough yet for investigators to link it to a suspect. All they could do was preserve that evidence in case technology ever improved. They also lifted some fingerprints from around the apartment, including from some envelopes that the mailman had dropped off that day. But until police had a suspect, they couldn't do anything with that evidence either.

• 33:17Vanessa Richardson?

  Meanwhile, Cornelia's autopsy suggested that she was strangled and revived multiple times before she was finally murdered. Detectives knew they were dealing with someone truly sadistic. Initially, the NYPD considered Cornelia's boyfriend as a suspect and questioned him multiple times. They took his fingerprints and bite prints, but nothing was a match. Eventually, they ruled him out, and they had no other suspects. The investigators were completely stumped. Meanwhile, all the way across the country in Los Angeles, investigators were making progress with Rodney's other crime.

• 33:59Vanessa Richardson?

  Detective Steve Hodel had been assigned to Tali Shapiro's case, the eight-year-old girl that Rodney almost killed before fleeing. You may recognize his name. Today, Steve Hodel is well-known for accusing his own father of being the infamous Black Dahlia Killer. While searching for Rodney, Hodel had trouble turning up any new leads, so sometime around July of 1971, he contacted the FBI and got them to add Rodney Alcala to the top 10 Most Wanted list. But for the moment, Rodney, aka John Berger, was flying under the radar. Shortly after he killed Cornelia Crilly, he was on his way to New Hampshire to spend another summer at the arts camp.

• 34:44Vanessa Richardson?

  We don't know if he ever victimized any of the campers. For the most part, it seems they liked having him as a counselor. However, Rodney had no idea that his role at the camp would soon turn his world upside down. One day in August 1971, a couple of girls walked to the nearby post office to send letters home. While there, they noticed an FBI Most Wanted poster on the bulletin board. The man in the photo looked just like their counselor, Mr. Berger, but the name on the poster said Rodney Alcala. The girls didn't know what to think. When they got back to the camp, they told another counselor what they saw. He told the girls not to tell anyone else.

• 35:27Vanessa Richardson?

  Then, the counselor went to the post office to see the poster for himself. When he saw the man's photo, he couldn't deny it. He looked just like John Berger. The counselor immediately contacted the FBI. Agents arrived at the camp the next morning and confirmed that John Berger was actually the fugitive Rodney Alcala. On August 12th, Rodney was arrested. The FBI had Detective Hodel fly out to New Hampshire so he could escort Rodney back to LA. Authorities had no idea they were helping Rodney evade suspicion for Cornelia Crilly's

• 36:07Vanessa Richardson?

  murder in New York, but Detective Hodel did gain some frightening insight on Rodney's inner workings. When Hodel met Rodney at the jail, he asked him a question that had been haunting him: "Why did he assault a child?" Rodney responded, quote, "I don't want to talk about Rod Alcala and what he did," end quote.

• 36:31Tristin Engels?

  So this response highlights Rodney's ability to psychologically compartmentalize. Individuals with antisocial or psychopathic traits often split their identity into parts. Rodney may have been psychologically separating from the Rod who committed the crimes, from the person he was presenting in daily life, or maybe even the new identity of John Berger that he was living under. It also could indicate that Rodney is emotionally detached from his crimes, and compartmentalizing allows him to continue his criminal behavior. And these are all common patterns with individuals who have antisocial personality disorder, or even with psychopathic traits.

• 37:09Vanessa Richardson?

  Do you think it's possible that Rodney experienced multiple personalities? Or is he just trying to distance himself from the crimes?

• 37:16Tristin Engels?

  So I think it's really unlikely that Rodney had multiple personalities in the clinical sense. So dissociative identity disorder, which is formerly known as multiple personality disorder, is extremely rare, and it has very specific diagnostic criteria. Most importantly, it emerges as a response to severe and chronic trauma, often in early childhood, and it involves distinct identities that take control over behavior in a way that's not premeditated or consciously strategic. And there's often memory impairment. People with dissociative identity disorder often forget entire periods of time, events, or interactions that occurred while another identity was present. That doesn't seem to be the case here.

• 37:58Tristin Engels?

  His behavior is very premeditated and very strategic. And instead, it appears more likely than not that Rodney was simply distancing himself from his crimes with conscious or semi-conscious compartmentalization. And this is reflective of a psychological strategy, rather than a dissociative disorder.

• 38:16Vanessa Richardson?

  Digging even deeper here, you think it's more likely that Rodney was just pretending to avoid responsibility? Or maybe was he even trying to trick Hodel into believing he had a personality disorder?

• 38:28Tristin Engels?

  So it's absolutely and very plausible that he was pretending. It's far more consistent with Rodney's personality profile to interpret this as a deliberate strategy of avoidance and manipulation rather than evidence of multiple personalities or even dissociative amnesia. This is common, again, in psychopathy. They are skilled at social manipulation, controlling the narrative and maintaining distance from moral or legal responsibility. And certainly, they're very skilled at tricking people, whether it's lingering psychiatric symptoms or tricking people or conning them for personal gain. So I think this is extremely plausible that was happening here.

• 39:07Vanessa Richardson?

  Whatever Rodney meant by it, when they arrived in LA, it didn't matter because fate had worked in his favor once again. Prosecutors learned that Tali Shapiro's family had moved to Mexico and her parents didn't want to re-traumatize her by having her testify about her assault in court. Without Tali's witness testimony, they had no case for the most serious charges. But Rodney still agreed to a plea deal for child molestation, which required him to register as a sex offender and spend some time behind bars. However, at the time, this came with an undetermined prison sentence. While Rodney was in prison, the parole board would reassess him each year to see if they thought he'd been rehabilitated.

• 39:52Vanessa Richardson?

  And in 1974, after three years behind bars, they were convinced 30-year-old Rodney was fit for release. He barely faced due consequences for what he did to Tali Shapiro, and he never faced any consequences for what he did to Morgan Rowan. Plus, the NYPD was still searching for a suspect in Cornelia Crilly's murder. But that was none of Rodney's concern. He was ready to get right back to his old tricks. And there was no one to get in his way.

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• 41:34Speaker 05

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• 42:07Vanessa Richardson?

  In the fall of 1974, 31-year-old Rodney Alcala had just finished serving three years in prison for child molestation. He moved back in with his mom in LA and got a job with a photography company, taking retail photos for stores in the area. He spent all day driving around, going to various shops. And on October 13, 1974, Rodney was cruising around Huntington Beach, about 40 miles south of LA, in his yellow station wagon. At some point, he pulled into a shopping center and saw a young girl waiting for the school bus. She looked to be around eight years old. The name Julie was written in big letters on her books.

• 42:51Vanessa Richardson?

  Rodney rolled down his window and told her he would take her to school.

• 42:56Tristin Engels?

  So why would Rodney kidnap another child in broad daylight so soon from being released from prison? Well, we can explain this by a number of things. Firstly, individuals with severe antisocial personality disorder, of which he was diagnosed, they often have little regard for rules or consequences. A prison sentence is not something that would deter them because they don't internalize societal rules in the same way that most people do. Some offenders experience a psychological reward from testing boundaries like adrenaline, a sense of control, or thrill. They also struggle with impulse control. And the very fact that it was broad daylight may have been part of the appeal when you consider that. But also, it was a crime of opportunity.

• 43:41Tristin Engels?

  She was eight years old, and her name was on her books, which made it easier to lure her and earn her trust in a relatively quick way, which was necessary for broad daylight. Many sexual offenders, especially those who target children, are opportunistic and commonly act on urges and impulses regardless of external consequences. And these urges can be magnified after periods of restriction, like incarceration. And Rodney is very opportunistic. I don't think it's a coincidence that he's also being a counselor to young children. They tend to seek out jobs, locations, and situations that will provide them access to the targets that they're looking for.

• 44:22Vanessa Richardson?

  Whatever it was that compelled Rodney, he was able to persuade Julie. She got into the car. But soon, he drove right past her school. Julie started to panic as Rodney drove further out of town. Eventually, he pulled over in a cliffside park and dragged Julie out of view of any passing cars. He forced her to smoke marijuana. Julie was too afraid to say no, and when Rodney started kissing her, she froze.

• 44:51Vanessa Richardson?

  Fortunately, at that moment, a park ranger approached them. Julie blurted out that she didn't know the man she was with, so the ranger brought both of them to the nearest station. Rodney was eventually found guilty of kidnapping, providing drugs to a minor, and violating parole. He was sent back to prison in late 1974. Almost three years later, in 1977, 34-year-old Rodney was up for parole. He knew how to play the system, so unsurprisingly, he was once again declared rehabilitated and was released. After he got out, Rodney told his parole officer he wanted to visit family in New York City. He was allowed to go.

• 45:36Vanessa Richardson?

  Of course, Rodney was lying about having family there, but no one checked his story. Then, once he was back in Manhattan, he unpacked his camera and hit the streets. He also started going by the name John Berger again. In July of 1977, that's how he introduced himself to 23-year-old Ellen Hoover.

• 46:00Vanessa Richardson?

  Ellen was a musician, whose father owned a famous nightclub. Celebrity performers Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Jr. were her godfathers. Even though Ellen lived a glamorous life, she was known to have a good head on her shoulders. She also had a lot of close friends in Manhattan. On July 13, 1977, one of those friends was walking past Ellen's apartment building when he saw her outside with someone he didn't recognize. He went up to say hi. Ellen told him her companion was a photographer. She didn't say much more than that before going inside. It was the last her friend ever heard from her. Two days later, on the evening of July 15th,

• 46:45Vanessa Richardson?

  Ellen was supposed to meet another friend for dinner, but she didn't show up. The police were called for a wellness check. When they got to Ellen's apartment, everything looked normal. There were no signs of a break-in or struggle, but there was also no sign of Ellen. The only potential clue they found was the name John Berger, written on Ellen's calendar for that day, but there were no other details, no time of day or location. The police contacted Ellen's parents to let them know what they found, and the Hovers immediately knew something was wrong. Ellen always kept in touch with her loved ones. They also knew all her friends, and had never heard of anyone named John Berger.

• 47:29Vanessa Richardson?

  Without hesitating, Ellen's father posted a $100,000 reward, which is half a million in today's money, for anyone who could provide information on her whereabouts. Still, it was months before investigators made any progress. By December 1977, the story made headlines, and the FBI got involved. When they searched for the name John Berger in their records, they saw the hit for his 1971 arrest at the summer camp in New Hampshire. The FBI once again realized that John Berger was actually Rodney Alcala, and he'd just gotten out of prison. They managed to track him down back in LA and brought Rodney in for questioning.

• 48:14Vanessa Richardson?

  At first, he said he didn't know Ellen Hoover, but eventually, he admitted that he did, and even told authorities that he saw her the day she disappeared. According to Rodney, they'd gone to an estate in Westchester, New York, about 30 minutes outside of the city, for a photo shoot that day. When they were done, he drove Ellen back to Manhattan and dropped her off at her apartment. The agents weren't buying it. They knew all about Rodney's past, so they took everything he said with a grain of salt. They asked him if he would be willing to take a polygraph, but he refused. Without any concrete evidence, they had to let him go.

• 48:55Tristin Engels?

  Every time Rodney gets away with his crimes, it's unfortunately giving him feedback that his strategies are working. Being questioned and released can teach someone like Rodney that he can effectively manipulate authority figures and evade serious consequences even when there is evidence against him. It could also fuel a belief that he is smarter and more capable than the authorities, which reinforces a grandiose self-image, confidence, and sense of power. It can also lower inhibitions and embolden criminal behavior. And this sense of invincibility can contribute to escalating criminal acts because the individual feels untouchable, and they may seek greater thrills or control as a result.

• 49:38Tristin Engels?

  And when you combine all of this, and all of the ways he's had leniency, you can see how this can be extremely dangerous for someone like Rodney.

• 49:50Vanessa Richardson?

  As if all of Rodney's free passes in his life weren't enough, he soon had another advantage in concealing his crimes: another killer. In the fall of 1977, the LAPD was on the hunt for someone known as "The Hillside Strangler." Between October and November of that year, nine young women were found dead in the Hollywood Hills. Most had ligature marks on their necks, wrists, and ankles. There was evidence of extremely violent sexual assault, and many of the women's bodies were posed in sexually suggestive ways. The LAPD formed a task force to investigate the string of gruesome crimes. Because of Rodney's criminal background, he was called in for questioning.

• 50:35Vanessa Richardson?

  But he had solid alibis for many of the Strangler cases, so investigators let him go. What they didn't realize was that one of the women they thought had been killed by "The Hillside Strangler" actually was Rodney's victim.

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• 52:41Vanessa Richardson?

  Eighteen-year-old Jill Barcom had recently graduated from high school in upstate New York. She was looking for a change of pace, so in October 1977, she and her friends took a cross-country road trip to LA. A couple of weeks after they arrived, Jill's friends returned home, but she loved California so much that she stayed. She wanted to build a new life for herself there. She never got the chance. On November 10, 1977, Jill was found dead in the Hollywood Hills. The MO of her murder was so similar to Hillside Strangler cases, the LAPD naturally assumed that was who killed her,

• 53:22Vanessa Richardson?

  and Rodney had already been removed from their list of potential suspects. All detectives could do was preserve evidence from Jill's crime scene and hope to turn up new leads. One piece of evidence was a sample of male bodily fluid found on her body. But just like with Cornelia Crilly's murder case in New York, they could only preserve that sample until technology improved, which meant Rodney continued on, free to live his life. He was living with his mom again, and he had gotten a steady job as a typesetter at the LA Times. On the outside, it seemed like he was getting his life together, but in reality, he was as depraved as ever.

• 54:06Vanessa Richardson?

  Rodney would bring his photography portfolio to work and show it around the office, including nude photographs of women and girls. It was extremely disturbing behavior, not to mention the photographs of children were criminal.

• 54:22Tristin Engels?

  This case continues to shock me as you take us through it. I thought I knew this case, but I clearly did not know just how much he'd gotten away with. Sharing these photos like this is a way to assert psychological power and dominance over others. He may be testing limits and boundaries, seeing how far he can push social norms. Rodney is a sexual offender, so beyond the dominance, there's an element of exhibitionistic gratification. Offenders like this derive arousal or excitement from exposing themselves or displaying prohibited material, and doing so in a social or professional context adds risk and novelty to him, which can be thrilling to someone like Rodney. And this wouldn't be the first time.

• 55:07Tristin Engels?

  I mean, if we think back, he started with exhibitionism in the military. He engaged in indecent exposure with women. And I think that his sexual deviance has been actually present longer than we realize. But each time he tests boundaries and faces little or no consequence, again, it reinforces the belief he's above accountability, and it's emboldening him and strengthening his willingness to exploit others for his own gain. And sharing this material could also have been a probe for someone with psychopathic traits, like gauging how coworkers will react, identifying who is compliant, or who is fearful, or who is dismissive. Anyway, it certainly seems like Rodney derives pleasure from testing people's boundaries.

• 55:49Vanessa Richardson?

  As alarming as his behavior was, most of Rodney's coworkers just thought he was strange. For some reason, no one thought he was actually dangerous. Meanwhile, on December 16, 1977, about a month after Jill Barcom's murder, a 27-year-old nurse named Georgia Wickstead was found dead in her home in Malibu. Georgia had been bludgeoned, strangled, and sexually assaulted. Just like Cornelia and Jill, her body was posed in a sexually suggestive way, and there was male bodily fluid found on her. The LAPD began an investigation, but it quickly went cold, not just because they couldn't

• 56:32Vanessa Richardson?

  match the DNA samples to anyone, but because they were completely overwhelmed. The Hillside Strangler wasn't the only case draining their resources. LAPD officers responded to multiple homicides a night. Over the next few months, the city earned the nickname "The Serial Killer Capital of America." People were living in fear, but many tried to preserve the magic and liveliness L.A. was known for. That included 32-year-old Charlotte Lamb. Charlotte had moved to L.A. from the Midwest. She had a steady job as a secretary and a thriving social life. On June 23, 1978, about six months after Georgia Wickstead was killed, Charlotte went out dancing.

• 57:18Vanessa Richardson?

  At some point, she met a charming man with a friendly smile and long brown hair. The next morning, Charlotte was found dead in the laundry room of an apartment building. She'd been strangled, sexually assaulted, and her body was posed. And there was bodily fluid found on her. Later, her autopsy also revealed she was strangled and revived multiple times before she died. Detectives had no idea that seven years before, in 1971, the same thing happened to flight attendant Cornelia Crilly in New York City.

• 57:56Vanessa Richardson?

  Even if they had, the NYPD didn't have Rodney on their radar for Cornelia's murder either. The nonstop string of vile, ruthless crimes in L.A. seemed like it would never end, and Rodney had gotten away with murder again. So he kept cruising around in his yellow station wagon, looking for his next model. Rodney Alcala was becoming so confident and so driven by his need to manipulate women, it was almost impossible for him to satiate his urge. But then, an opportunity came along, and it offered Rodney something he had never

• 58:37Vanessa Richardson?

  experienced before: the chance to ensnare a woman on national TV.

• 59:00Vanessa Richardson?

  Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back next time as we conclude our deep dive on Rodney Alcala.

• 59:06Tristin Engels?

  Killer Minds is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on all social media at @CrimeHouse. And don't forget to rate, review, and follow Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.

• 59:28Vanessa Richardson?

  And to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Killer Minds ad-free, along with early access to each thrilling two-part series and exciting bonus content.

• 59:44Vanessa Richardson?

  Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristin Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team: Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pritzowski, Sarah Kemp, Kate Murdock, Sarah Bachelor, Hania Said, and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening.

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