88: The Cost of Unpreparedness and The Importance of Fortitude. "Excursion To Hell"

0:00:00 - Opening 0:07:28 - "Excursion To Hell", by Vince Bramley http://amzn.to/2x2Tbmh 2:04:40 - Final thoughts and Take-aways. 2:22:14 - Support, Cool Onnit http://www.onnit.com/jocko, JockoStore http://www.jockostore.com stuff, with Jocko White Tea http://www.jockotea.com and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes) https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/psychological-warfare/id1183222322. Extreme Ownership (book) http://amzn.to/2jonHTx, The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. http://amzn.to/2szgaEj Origin Brand http://www.originmaine.com, Origin Jiu Jitsu Immersion Camp. Origin Brand http://www.originmaine.com. Extreme Ownership Muster 004 http://www.extremeownership.com in San Diego. 2:52:01 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast, number 88, with Echo Charles and me, Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening.

• 0:13Jocko Willink?

  I went into a public house to get a pint of beer. The public in the up and says, "We serve no redcoats here." The girls behind the bar, they laughed and giggled fit to die. I outstint to the streets again, and to myself says I, "Oh, it's Tommy this and Tommy that and Tommy go away." But it's thank you, Mr. Atkins, when the band begins to play. When the band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play. Oh, it's thank you, Mr. Atkins, when the band begins to play.

• 0:55Jocko Willink?

  I went into a theater, as sober as could be. They gave a drunk civilian room, but they hadn't none for me. They sent me to the gallery around the music halls. But when it comes to fighting, Lord, they shove me in the stalls. For it's Tommy this and Tommy that and Tommy wait outside. But it's special train for Atkins when the troopers on the tide. The troop ship's on the tide, my boys, the troop ship's on the tide. Oh, it's special train for Atkins when the troopers on the tide.

• 1:36Jocko Willink?

  Yes, making Maka uniforms that guard you while you sleep is cheaper than them uniforms and their starvation cheap. And hustlin' drunken soldiers, when they're goin' large a bit, is five times better business than paradin' in full kit. Then it's Tommy this and Tommy that and Tommy, how's your soul? But it's thin red line of arrows when the drums begin to roll. The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll. Oh, it's thin red line of arrows when the drums begin to roll.

• 2:17Jocko Willink?

  We aren't no thin red arrows, nor we aren't no black guards too, but single men in barracks, most remarkable like you. And if sometimes our conduct isn't all your fancy paints, why single men in barracks don't grow into plaster saints? While it's Tommy this and Tommy that and Tommy fall behind, but it's please walk in the front, sir, when there's trouble in the wind. When there's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind. Oh, it's please walk to the front, sir, when there's trouble in the wind.

• 2:59Jocko Willink?

  You talk of better food for us and schools and fires and all. We'll rate for extra rations if you treat us rational. Don't mess about the cookroom slops, but prove it to our face. The widow's uniform is not the soldier's man's disgrace. For it's Tommy this and Tommy that and chuck him out, the brute. But it's savior of his country when the guns begin to shoot. And it's Tommy this and Tommy that and anything you please.

• 3:33Jocko Willink?

  And Tommy ain't a blooming fool. You bet that Tommy sees. And that is a another poem from Kipling. It's actually one of my favorites from Kipling. And, and you can follow it and you can go back and read through it, look it up online and it's, it's explaining how, you know, the soldier doesn't get any respect during peacetime. But when it's time to fight, when the troop ship is on the tide, then it's Tommy,

• 4:18Jocko Willink?

  which is slang for the British soldier, then it's Tommy to the front of the line.

• 4:26Jocko Willink?

  But the point that I wanted to focus on is, is a line in the poem where it says, "And if sometimes our conduct isn't all your fancy paints,

• 4:39Jocko Willink?

  why single men in barracks don't grow into plaster saints?" And what that means is that soldiers and Marines and sailors and those men that go out into harms way voluntarily, they're not always Boy Scouts.

• 4:59Jocko Willink?

  They're not gonna be plaster saints. You know plaster saint, like you have the little statue of a saint, of a little Christian saint?

• 5:07Jocko Willink?

  The, the, the soldiers are gonna be a little rough around the edges. They might be a little bit rowdy. They might be a little bit brash. They might be a little bit drunk. They might be troublemakers.

• 5:19Jocko Willink?

  Now, they're, they're not all like that, obviously.

• 5:23Jocko Willink?

  But some of them are. And guess what? Who else is gonna go forward?

• 5:30Jocko Willink?

  Who, who else is gonna go put their life on the line?

• 5:36Jocko Willink?

  It's these guys. And, and by the way, when you are raised in a barracks, a single man in a barracks,

• 5:44Jocko Willink?

  you're gonna find some trouble from time to time. And then, once you take these young men and you put them into battle,

• 5:52Jocko Willink?

  once you subject them to fear and terror and death,

• 6:02Jocko Willink?

  can we assume now and expect them to act like saints?

• 6:10Jocko Willink?

  Can we somehow expect that their behavior is now gonna transition to becoming beyond reproach in the way they carry themselves?

• 6:21Jocko Willink?

  I don't think that's a realistic outlook. Now, the book that we're gonna look at today is an example of war, and it shows once again that war is brutal.

• 6:38Jocko Willink?

  Not just in actions, but also in attitude, in language, and in the way it impacts men, both physically and mentally. And this book is raw. It's graphic, it's brutish, and it's real.

• 7:00Jocko Willink?

  And the language that's in it that's offensive, I leave it in.

• 7:07Jocko Willink?

  Why? Because war is offensive.

• 7:11Jocko Willink?

  And the language used in war is also offensive. And if you don't want to hear offensive language, or graphic descriptions, or completely politically incorrect statements being made, then don't listen to this podcast.

• 7:30Jocko Willink?

  The book is called Excursion in Hell.

• 7:36Jocko Willink?

  And it tracks the experience of its author, a guy by the name of Vincent Bramley, who's a young corporal in 3rd Battalion of the British Army's Parachute Regiment, otherwise known as the Three Paras.

• 8:03Jocko Willink?

  Now, the book starts off kind of with the way the Falkland Islands is starting to escalate. And as it's starting to escalate, they get put on, they're in England, the Three Paras get put onto a cruise ship. A chartered cruise ship called the SS Canibera and they're sailing south towards the Falkland Islands. And now we, they're starting to get information, started getting intelligence and started to get briefed on what's happening. Cause these guys didn't even know where, where the Falkland Islands were. I mean, a lot of them, they didn't know where they were. It's some random island out in the middle of nowhere. They couldn't find it on a map, a lot of them. Well, now they're definitely looking at it and they're trying to figure out what's going on there.

• 8:47Jocko Willink?

  So they're starting to get some of these briefs. We're going to the book now. Our lectures were in the early afternoon now. The most memorable was by some of the very keen Marines who had been serving in the Falklands at the time of the invasion. The Falkland Islands were in a British, I guess you'd call it a colony, uh, but not a colony. It's a little British, it was owned by the British at the time.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:14Jocko Willink?

  And the Argentinians invaded it. So here we go.

• 9:22Jocko Willink?

  Obviously, listening to firsthand experience was better than listening to some officer lecturing us on his personal beliefs at the time. However, an intelligence officer from way up top gave a graphic account of what the RGs, that's what they call the Argentinians, the RGs, were up to at the time. The intelligence constantly coming in was essential to all levels. What I remember most about this lecture was the officer standing proudly in front of us saying, "The Argentine Army is the best and strongest in South America." He told us, "You will be in for a big scrap if it comes to war, gents. Have no qualms about it."

• 10:03Jocko Willink?

  "At the last recorded reports, the RGs have about 9,000 men in fortified positions around Stanley, the capital." "But we also have good reports that they are underfed, morale is low, and they have taken to eating horses and sheep." "Which they have been stealing from the inhabitants." That's the local people that lived on the Falkland Islands. "This tells us that they are very undisciplined and goes to show that conscription is going to be their mistake." So they have, some of their soldiers are conscripts, meaning they're forced into the, into the army.

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, like a draft.

• 10:38Jocko Willink?

  Like, yes.

• 10:41Jocko Willink?

  My immediately, my immediate feelings were nine thousand fucking men. And we only have two or three thousand. What the fuck is the big brass up to?

• 10:54Jocko Willink?

  So what was interesting about this is, one of the things that I really, this reminded me of is these guys have never been to war before. As a matter of fact, he doesn't even mention anyone that has any prior combat experience. And so this reminds me of when I was on my, all my first deployments, like, you know, I talked about being off the coast of Somalia. I talked about being off the coast of Rwanda. And that's the position that these guys were in and, and what our mindset was. If I was to go into Rwanda when I was a kid, when I was, you know, however old I was, 22 years old, never been in combat before. I would be completely different person than if I went in right now.

• 11:32Jocko Willink?

  With my, you know, all the things that we talk about all the time. I mean, I'd be, I just understand combat. I understand war better. I'm 45 years old.

• 11:42Jocko Willink?

  I've been in combat leadership positions, been in firefights. I understand these things. My attitude would be completely different. Almost completely different than it would be, than it was when I was 22 or 23 years old. Sitting there fired up with a million rounds and, you know, it's like Leif talking about, I remember, you know, getting ready to go into Somalia or Rwanda. I had like hundreds of pounds of gear, grenades. We were so loaded out. We were too heavy. Yeah, yeah. Cause we were, thought we were going to World War III. And that's the, that's what these guys are like. They don't, there's, they're, they just don't, they've never been to combat.

• 12:22Jocko Willink?

  And I think, you know, for everything. Yeah, they're trying to be ready for everything and, and just their attitude and you can see it actually carries through. This thing is almost like, and this is what he says too. A lot of times it's almost like they're on this giant, really hard training exercise. Obviously it turns very sour at some points and very, much, much more beyond that. But this is what a lot of this reminds me of these guys. Now, some of these guys had been in, I guess the combat experience that these guys would have had, and I, and I should have remembered this, I didn't. You know what these guys had combat experience? They had combat experience from being in Northern Ireland. So most of them had done deployments over in Northern Ireland. But I think that was a, a little bit more of a.

• 13:05Jocko Willink?

  Not, it's not, it's not the full kind of combat they're about to get engaged in here. So.

• 13:12Jocko Willink?

  That's what it reminds me of hearing the way they're talking. Alright, so.

• 13:19Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, on 3 May, the submarine HMS Conqueror sank the Argentinian ship General Belgrano with a lost, loss of about 300 lives. When this news was first brought to us, we were skeptical, thinking, yeah, okay.

• 13:37Jocko Willink?

  Once the news was official, it wasn't greeted with total enthusiasm. In the bar that night, most of us were solemn. We now knew war was inevitable. They have a bar, it's a cruise ship that they're on, so they have a bar and they're, they're drinking, they get some allotment of beers in there, that's where they're hanging out, but all of a sudden, this is real, you know, you don't, you don't kill 300, you know, enemy sailors and think you're not going to go to war. And it comes back, back to the book, the night of 4 May, while we were playing bingo in the bar, news came that the HMS Sheffield had been hit by an RG Exocet, which is a type of missile, and was sinking. The loss of a Harrier jet was also reported. The news hit the troops onboard like a sledgehammer.

• 14:21Jocko Willink?

  Until now, everything we had heard had been in our favor. South Georgia had been retaken, and the RG's submarine patrol boats had all been hit. Even their inland positions had been bombed by the Navy, and now the Belgrano, which was the ship that they had sunk, sinking the Sheffield was the first of their strike backs. Morale in the bar that night swung from an incredible high to an almost sickening silence.

• 14:49Jocko Willink?

  And he talks about this, about the waiting, these guys are now, it's a long cruise down there. I think it takes them about three, three weeks to get down. Back to the book, the day after the Sheffield was hit, we knew our weight was coming to an end. The atmosphere was quiet and a morale booster was now much needed. The only thing possible for the task force was revenge. The sinking of the Sheffield had hit us as if we had lost a personal friend. Tension mounted, frustration showed in everyone's eyes. The fitness drills were now carried out in full kit and pounding the decks in the heat was gutty work. So the whole time they've been steaming down there. They've been out there running laps on the, on the deck of the cruise ship, trying to get in shape for what, what's coming.

• 15:38Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, the main info we picked up suggested a possible move on 20 May. So, so they're trying to figure out what's going on. They're down, these, this guy's, you know, pretty low on the totem pole. They're trying to figure out what's going on. They're hearing all these different rumors and, and now they picked up that maybe they're going to go on 20 May. Back to the book, our nerves now started. The move south was steady and without any real complications, but further south we went, the further we were going in. Somehow I and many others still didn't quite believe the war was going to happen. We were lost in our own thoughts on many different subjects. Home became secondary now. I thought about the ifs and whens of our arrival in the exclusion zone and of the landings and battles to follow.

• 16:22Jocko Willink?

  Home was not my immediate thoughts. Survival was. Speculation was now rife as to what, what the landing procedure would be. We were still very much in the dark as to what was happening. But the next, within the next 24 hours, all the bullshit rumors and personal beliefs were corrected by the platoon commander. "Gents," he said, "it's the green light." So they know they're now going in.

• 16:52Jocko Willink?

  And now they're getting into the serious preparations, packing and repacking to make our webbing as comfortable as possible. We began to psych ourselves up for the days ahead. It was nerve wracking beyond belief, yet morale seemed remarkably high throughout the ship, though the laughing and joking among the lads was partly to cover the fear. Not that anyone thought death was going to hit him. That was for the guy you were talking to. Getting the, the common belief, the, the common belief that we hear quite a bit, which is not going to happen to me.

• 17:26Jocko Willink?

  And, you know, I, I will say this as I say it for all these shows that we do. I'm skipping a bunch of stuff. I'm giving you some of the high points, but the, the way he lays this out and the tension that he builds, he does an outstanding job.

• 17:42Jocko Willink?

  Getting the tension and capturing it and I'm, I'm going through it pretty quickly. But it's worth reading because, and I think it's worth reading because if you're in one of these situations, especially when you're in charge of guys that have never been to combat before, this is what you gotta, it gives you a good lessons about keeping guys informed, about preparing them for combat. And keeping them with the right mindset going in. So now they actually transfer from the cruise ship. Now they get onto a warship and eventually they end up on a landing craft that's, that's heading to shore. Cause they're going to war. Again, I covered that, what in, in six minutes right now? It's, it's much more well detailed in the book. But right now they're getting ready to do their landing.

• 18:27Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, the area now looked like an overcrowded tube train. The troops had pushed so close together that you could count the black heads on your neighbor's face. I sat on my kit observing the order to keep all noise down, no talking.

• 18:43Jocko Willink?

  I looked around, I looked around me at the hundreds of cammed faces. So they got cam, camouflage paint on, at hundreds of canned faces, all with big wide eyes. Each face told its own story. Each, each soldier had his own thoughts about the coming battle. And the lads, as the lads quietly sat about waiting. Always waiting, the story of all soldiers. Myself, I couldn't help but think that it was still a joke and that we wouldn't be going to shore.

• 19:14Jocko Willink?

  My stomach was in knots and the nausea was hard to control. The nervousness running through me was the worst of all, waiting, waiting for that fucking green light.

• 19:24Jocko Willink?

  Doc Murdock, Doc Murdock sat next to me pulling faces like a comedian. Fuck off, Doc, I said, I've got the jitters.

• 19:33Jocko Willink?

  We've all got to go somewhere, Vince, don't worry.

• 19:38Jocko Willink?

  The frustration of waiting and all the hassles of the last six weeks disappeared as we watched in stunned silence the battle for Fanning Head to our left. Fanning Head was the RGOP near San Carlos. The SAS had mounted an attack there to allow our landings to go ahead without interference. The tracer rounds and naval bombardment on the tip of the bay brought us abruptly into the real world. "Jesus, look at that, it's a fireworks display," shouted a lad at the front of the craft. "Shut up and face the coming beach." We hadn't noticed we were moving towards the beach. All heads had been turned to watch the battle. So that's a little wake-up call.

• 20:20Jocko Willink?

  They're going in to do their beach landing and there's a massive firefight going on where the SAS is doing a hit.

• 20:27Jocko Willink?

  Now, as they, they, they get on, they do their landing, their landing is on a post, and they're starting to patrol movement towards one of their objectives. Here we go. "When we passed San Carlos, two Gazelle helicopters had just been shot down by some of the fleeing enemy. Word very quickly went around that the crew had been shot in the water while trying to swim ashore. Our anger brought home the reality of war and introduced us to the type of enemy we would be fighting. I would personally felt, I personally felt that if we could have caught those responsible, we would have killed them for the cowardly act."

• 21:14Jocko Willink?

  So there's some, well, cowardly acts, I guess, is the, is the word used. So the guys are trying to swim to safety and they get shot, the helicopter pilots. They get into a position and they, they, they hold up for a while in a, in a security position. Back to the book, guards sat behind the, the SF gun for two hours on, four off. There's no sleep to be had.

• 21:43Jocko Willink?

  What with the cold rain, ponchos flapping all over the place and everyone restlessly changing positions all the time. It was a great first night. So they're out there, they're freezing. It's, that's one thing they weren't really prepared for. They weren't really prepared for this, uh, cold weather.

• 22:02Jocko Willink?

  And...

• 22:04Jocko Willink?

  But that's how they kick off. No enemy contact yet, other than what they can see off in the distance.

• 22:11Jocko Willink?

  They get gathered up for a little morning meeting. Back to the book, Pete Gray gathered the NCOs around him for a daily brief and informed us of the things we weren't interested in. But also informed us that A Company and C Company had had a blue on blue sometime earlier. Apparently, both companies had patrols out to look for the RGs who'd escaped on our landing. One patrol had spotted the other and asked for mortars on their position seen. In turn, the other company asked for artillery on the first company. So a battle between A Company and C Company, both firing small arms at each other.

• 22:53Jocko Willink?

  Within minutes, the operations officer in charge realized the error and radioed for a ceasefire.

• 23:01Jocko Willink?

  But not before three to four lads had been badly shot up, two of them suffering head wounds. The ops officer was temporarily removed from the task. So, again, we got relatively inexperienced guys. They're out there and again, obviously, I highlight that because blue on blue is a real thing.

• 23:26Jocko Willink?

  And people don't think it's gonna happen. I think Leif was talking about this. If you would have asked someone in TU Bruiser, you said, "What are the chances that we're gonna have a blue on blue on our deployment?" People would have been like, zero percent. They would have said zero percent. Because it was that, it's that taboo. And the fact that, you know, there's a blue on blue that we talk about in Extreme Ownership, but there's blue on blues all the time in Ramadi. And this is another example of how easy it is to have it happen between two companies in the same battalion.

• 24:06Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. Well, lads, bad news. Said Pete. The Atlantic conveyor has been sunk. How the fuck did that get hit? Asked someone from the rear. You tell me. Pete wasn't a happy man, nor were we, for the ship had been carrying the Chinooks and luxury kit like tents, overboots, and so on. So, there was a, a supply ship? Well, a ship that had a bunch of supplies on it, including helicopters. And helicopters is what's supposed to transport the paras around Falkland. That was the plan. That, that just got sunk. And not only did it get sunk with the helicopters on it, it got sunk with the things like tents

• 24:48Jocko Willink?

  and sleeping bags that's gonna allow them to be, you know, operate comfortably in this cold environment. If you don't know where Falkland Islands is, it's down by Antarctica.

• 25:01Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. Some bastard should fall for this, we thought. All that kit on one bloody ship. Bad news of our choppers being sunk hit us sorely, and many of us were still thinking about, about it when Pete announced the next info. No choppers. So the bigwigs have decided that we start walking ASAP, ASAP, like today.

• 25:23Jocko Willink?

  Pete gave us a breakdown of what was happening. Two para was on the march to Goose Green. Forty-five commando were, were to head north to a settlement called Douglas. We, of three para, were to take Teal Inlet.

• 25:38Jocko Willink?

  Within an hour, all kit was packed tightly away, last meals and brews demolished, weapons oiled and ready, and bunkers evacuated. Brews. He's talking about tea. And the Brits, if you don't know, they like their tea. And it's, it's, it's epic. And I, I saw that, you know, with Brits that I've worked with, obviously I'm married to a Brit, so I know how much they, they like tea and drink tea. I've, I saw it overseas, guys would be, they, they just would be ready to brew tea at any given time. Uh, the first people, the, the Sri Lankan, when I was working with the Sri Lankan guys back in the

• 26:19Jocko Willink?

  They've been heavily influenced by the British Army.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:23Jocko Willink?

  And by the British culture, because that was a British settlement for a long time. They got their tea on too. They would brew. Any, you know, you'd just take a break for 10 minutes. These guys would be over there with a little stove, little hex lamp brewing up a tea.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:37Jocko Willink?

  So that's something that you're gonna, and I, I'm talking about it now. I don't highlight it as much as I could in the, in this podcast, but that's what they're talking about. Having a cup of tea, brewing a cup of tea. Yeah. Doing a brew. When I worked with guys, the SAS guys that would come and stay with us here, those guys were the same way.

• 26:57Speaker 01

  Get their brew on.

• 26:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Gotta have, they gotta have a cup of tea.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Solid.

• 27:03Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. We made our way up the prominent part of windy gap where most of the battalion was gathering. The CSM, that's the Command Sergeant Major of B Company was organizing which kit we were to carry and which to leave. No tried, no tripods for the SF guns in it. SF guns are sustained fire guns. Basically a big heavy machine gun.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:26Jocko Willink?

  That, that takes a crew to operate. So you have a tripod, someone carries the tripod, someone carries the gun, someone carries the ammunition. At least I think that's how they break it up. No tripods for the SF guns and no sleeping bags. No Bergens. Bergens is what the Brits call their big backpacks. Or big rucksacks. All unnecessary weight to be left. We repacked our kit. The Bergens and tripods were centralized for a later pickup. They were to be choppered forward if a chopper became available.

• 27:59Jocko Willink?

  We all felt pissed off about the conveyor being sunk and the prospect of the coming tab. So they call a, a, a march or a hump. They call it a tab.

• 28:12Jocko Willink?

  We were, we were pissed off about the coming tab. We knew that the march would be about 50 kilometers. But we were all glad to be moving, breaking out across the island on the offensive. We set out at about 2:30 in the afternoon on what was to be an epic march for the regiment.

• 28:33Jocko Willink?

  With the GPMG, that's a general purpose machine gun, webbing order and ammo slung over every part of our bodies, we tabbed, or rather hobbled as fast as we could. Once over the first hill, we started to march around the side of an adjoining hill. At this time, the Marines were walking alongside us, ready to break northwards toward Douglas, towards the Douglas Settlement. Unlike us, they carried full kit, Bergens and all. Within thirty minutes, we had a short break to let the stragglers catch up. A young Marine was propped on his back beside me with his Bergen as a support. "You lot have the right idea," he said, "no fucking extras. We look like donkeys here."

• 29:13Jocko Willink?

  I couldn't help but agree with him, but thought to myself that while we may move faster, we'd be coldest at night. At that time, I didn't know we'd be marching flat out all the way, day and night.

• 29:29Jocko Willink?

  In less than an hour, our bodies were struggling under the weight of kit and ammo. The GPMG seemed to weigh a ton. We swapped it on every short break. Within the first two hours of the night march, orders were passed slowly back along the length of the battalion that we'd be stopping for fifteen minutes in every hour. Some even started clock watching. Our boots and wet socks were becoming unbearable to march in, rubbing badly on the feet of most, if not all of us. Blisters and sprained ankles added unexpectedly to the injury toll. And I haven't done a good job of describing the terrain. It's miserable terrain. Just rocks, slippery rocks, big, steep hills.

• 30:13Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's, go look at it on, you go look at some images of what the terrain in the Falkland Islands is like. It's, it's nightmare to, nightmare to patrol on.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  And it's the kind where it's snowing, kind?

• 30:25Jocko Willink?

  It's gonna snow. Not snowing yet, but it's gonna.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  But it's that cold where it's.

• 30:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, which actually. is actually in some ways worse it's some ways it's worse to have because if it's cold enough that it's snowing snow is snow is generally dry i if that makes sense rain is rain yeah right you get rained on you're wet yeah yeah if you get snowed on you can maintain your your dryness so if you're in a really cold environment where it's where it's snowing that's okay the snow it's it doesn't make you wet and wet makes you cold yeah one of the worst things is right on that borderline yeah yeah between because then you get rained on but then when the sun goes down it turns into freezing so that this is the worst worst worst environment you could you could want for this situation that they're in and

• 31:13Jocko Willink?

  all their gear they only have what limited gear they they should have got sunk on a boat or it's in their bergens but even the stuff that's in their bergens isn't the full isn't the best winter equipment they they would want all that stuff got sunk

• 31:29Jocko Willink?

  so

• 31:35Jocko Willink?

  he's got a guy that's starting to slack a little bit his name is Taft Taft move up move up I screamed I can't Vince I'm fucked I was losing my rag I could see he was out of it but I couldn't stand the fact that he was gonna let us down before we'd even got there Taft was trying to keep up and mumbling out loud that he could do it if only we were to slow down a little bit but this was impossible nobody could tell the lead elements to slow down the gap got bigger the swearing got louder Taft wasn't the only one to feel the strain many of the lads were struggling at last exhausted we stopped on the slope of yet another windswept hill

• 32:14Jocko Willink?

  Taft shook uncontrollably he had a bad cramp and lay there totally out of the game I informed the medics

• 32:24Jocko Willink?

  Steve was sitting beside as usual when it when the unusual order came from the CO the commanding officer brew up a hot cuppa and make a snack that was the order this shocked a lot of us theoretically it was a no-no sitting in the middle of an advance in the open and pitch dark practically though it was the best order yet a welcome brew was what we needed the CEO was obviously aware that the lads were suffering from the speed of the march

• 32:53Jocko Willink?

  To me Taft looked as though he was about to die. His nine stone frame wasn't strong enough for the rest of the march. Taft could run the British, the army's British fitness test in around eight minutes and was considered our best runner. This proves, as do other accounts I heard after the war, that the fitness of troops cannot be determined by how fast they can run. The Paros always pride themselves on tabbing with kit, so that means marching with gear, and rightly so. But I learned a lesson on our, on our first night's march. You must have body fat on you to waste for that kind of long tab that we had barked on. So got a guy that's like, you know, super thin triathlete, now he's, now you put a

• 33:38Jocko Willink?

  bunch of weight on him. He's hurting. And, and I'll tell you that that was also, that's a generalization too. That's not always true. I know some guys that were lean and could run fast and they could also hump a rock like it was, like it was their, like it was their business.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 33:57Jocko Willink?

  Now, they start gathering up kind of the guys that can't continue. And they, they actually leave these guys that can't continue in, in a perimeter area. And then we're going back to the book. We slogged it out for another two or three hours of continuous hills, bogs, rocks, holes in the grounds, everything that we could possibly, everything that could possibly make you trip or get wet. On top of the bloody awful terrain, we had the rain, sleet, wind and freezing climate to cope with. Exhausted and nearer the point of collapse, we came to the first manmade thing I'd seen. Apart from the small houses at San Carlos, it was a barbed wire fence. There, right in the middle of nowhere sat the fence stretching far into the darkness

• 34:42Jocko Willink?

  on either side. Orders from above told us to rest up until first light. We had been marching for 15 hours across the worst terrain you could imagine. Steve and I attached our poncho with bungies, our ponchos with bungies to the fence and Skitty, Kev and Johnny bashed up on the other side, creating a tent-like accommodation. That's like their term for making shelter. We, we'd call it bivvy up, which is where, that's where we're going to sleep. They call it bashed up. We'd say bivvy up, hey, we're going to bivvy up here.

• 35:16Jocko Willink?

  It rained hard for the remaining four hours of darkness. The wind blew the rain in on us as we all lay there trying to rest in the basher. But although we were exhausted, someone snoring soon broke into my thoughts and outside around the basher little whispers could be heard and other voices shouting for silence. I closed my eyes dreaming of a bath, clean sheets, and a letter from home. I didn't mind the rain as it hit my face. The chance to rest was welcome and I eventually managed to sleep. I was awoken by a nudge from Skiddy, who was already half-packed and ready to move. Steve and I crawled from our refuge and quietly packed our kit into our webbing. The rain and cold had shrunk the webbing so that it was difficult to fasten.

• 36:02Jocko Willink?

  Cold and numbness had us swearing out loud.

• 36:08Jocko Willink?

  We tabbed over more hills, through more bogs and marshes. My legs ached more than I had thought possible. Steve was, if anything, better than me with the weight. Every time I started to struggle with the GPMG, he took it without complaining. Carry that weapon he could.

• 36:29Jocko Willink?

  So brutal march. They get to their next destination where they're going into a layup point or a perimeter where they're going to stop for a while. Back to the book, my stomach felt hollow. The wind and rain drained me of life. Lying there, feeling near to total exhaustion, I couldn't even think of what was to come. The battle for Teal Inlet. My feet didn't exist anymore. They were just two blocks of numbed ice attached to my legs. Tapping them together brought a pain that felt as if they would shatter and fall off. Steve lay next to me, lighting up a fag, which is a cigarette. He looked up through the rain clouds at the darkened sky. "If we carry on at this rate, we'll all drop dead of exhaustion," he murmured.

• 37:16Jocko Willink?

  Steve said that he didn't want to look at his feet because they felt like they were falling off. I peeled back my wet socks, saw blood on my right foot, and discovered that the nail of my big toe was hanging off. Numbness had masked what normally would have been agony. Clenching my teeth, I pulled the nail away by its remaining roots.

• 37:39Jocko Willink?

  Soon, the shout went out that we were to get ready to move. We were moving earlier than expected to catch the last of the daylight. When I stood up, my body ached from head to foot. I was minus one toenail. I took up my kit and moved into line with the others, ready to go the last 13 kilometers to Teal. So far, it had taken us about 14 hours to march 40-odd kilometers. That was still good going. We set off very slowly, spaced out in one long line. We hobbled over the hill in front of us, only to see more hills and marshes. I began to become conscious of my toe, and the more I thought about it, the worse it felt.

• 38:23Jocko Willink?

  However, the thought of dropping out at that stage seemed a fate worse than death, and so I fought the pain. It's funny, looking back, but the further we went into the campaign, the less I thought of my home or family. I wasn't thinking of queen and country either. I thought of myself and the lads around me. Letting the side down was my biggest fear. That fear kept me walking.

• 38:55Jocko Willink?

  Just doesn't want to let his boys down. That's his driving force, not even thinking about his family anymore, not thinking about God and country. Not thinking about the queen.

• 39:09Jocko Willink?

  Here's a little thing that I had to highlight. We were annoyed by the lack of info coming down the marching line to tell us where we were and how far we had left the march. This is, as a lesson I learned a long time ago, when I was a young junior guy in a platoon. And if you're in the back of the platoon, or you're in the back of the patrol, and you don't know where you're going, it is the worst feeling. It's the worst feeling. You have no idea how much longer, where you're going, where you are. Not only is it a bad feeling for the people on your team... It's tactically unsound because they don't know where they are. So what happens if you get contacted, you get split up, where are they supposed to go? They don't even know where they are. What if they go in the wrong directions? They could get, go into enemy formation. It's, it's a horrible scenario. And obviously as a leader in any position.

• 39:55Jocko Willink?

  You gotta think, does your, does the back of your patrol know where you are? Does your company know where you are? I was working with a company recently, they had, they had a big transition to make. But no one knew what quantified that transition. It just seemed like this open-ended prospect. And then no one knew where it ended or what, what quantified, hey, okay, we can, we can move to the next phase. So it, and it was a tough phase that they were going through, you know, cutting costs and being restrictive on expenditures. I guess that is cutting costs, but getting rid of some people is a tough time. But no one knew when that was gonna end. Right, right. They just thought, they, they knew that there was some kind of goal out there, but they didn't know what it was.

• 40:38Jocko Willink?

  And that was really tough for them in the transition. So I said, you know, you need to set clear goals. If you know what they are, which actually the leadership did know, they knew there was a certain line, a certain amount of cost that they needed to cut, a certain operating expense that they needed to get down to. But they didn't tell anybody. So everyone just thought, well, we might just be cutting my job next or who, you know, how long am I gonna be here? Maybe we're just shutting down, I don't know. So keep your people informed. The people that are in the back end of your patrol, you gotta keep them informed.

• 41:10Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, we came to a fourth river, smaller than the rest and stumbled across it in the dark. The cold water mixed with our sweat to cause yet more sores on our feet. We were now about one and a half kilometers from the settlement of Teal Inlet. The agony of the marching disappeared quickly as it became clear that the task of battle would soon confront us.

• 41:35Jocko Willink?

  And how does that go? One and a half hours of lying in the cold with the winds shooting through us was all the action they had that night. So they, they get to Teal Inlet and really nothing really happens because the Argies had left.

• 41:50Jocko Willink?

  They do get some updates back to the book. We found out that some of the platoon had dropped out on the march. More importantly, though, Mick Coleman, one of our gunners, had just been shot in the leg. Not by the enemy, but by a knob in a company. So their first casualty, besides someone getting hurt from marching, is somebody that gets shot by one of their own people.

• 42:14Speaker 01

  It's a knob.

• 42:15Jocko Willink?

  Just a derogatory term for a tool.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Right, a knob, gotcha.

• 42:21Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 42:23Jocko Willink?

  It's not a, it's not a, uh, not a military term.

• 42:27Speaker 01

  Right, it's not official.

• 42:28Jocko Willink?

  It's not official military doctrinal term, knob. Just say a turd.

• 42:37Jocko Willink?

  The CO and his, back to the book, the CO and his band of followers inspected the lines later that morning. So now they're dug in in another position. "We thought they might instruct us to move our trench or something, the usual thing, but we were still thinking as though we were on exercise." So, classic point right there. The commanding officer comes around and they think, "Oh, he's gonna tell us to redig these trenches, because that's what we'd be doing if we were on exercise. Hey, you need to move this over here, that could be a little bit better." He doesn't do any of that.

• 43:03Jocko Willink?

  "The CO looked grim as he approached the six of us, taking a tea break."

• 43:09Jocko Willink?

  "Listen in, lads," said the RSM, that's the Regimental Sergeant Major. "We looked at him, wondering what was coming."

• 43:18Jocko Willink?

  During the march, Two Para, so that's their sister battalion, Two Para attacked Goose Green and Darwin settlements. After a long battle, the regiment liberated the settlement with the loss of 18 lives, including their commanding officer, Colonel H. Jones. "Many have been wounded, and a casualty list is being drawn up." "They captured hundreds of Argies. The war is now a different concept, for the enemy are believed to have shot down members of Two Para, showing a white flag." "More information will be given, once known."

• 43:59Jocko Willink?

  The CO half smiled and proceeded to the next line of partly dug trenches. Skitty, Kev, John, and I looked at each other with open mouths. The thought of eighteen members of two pair of dead outweighed the victory for us.

• 44:18Jocko Willink?

  I, for one, couldn't have given a shit about Goose Green or anywhere else on the island at that time.

• 44:26Jocko Willink?

  It was the thought of losing our mates in the sister battalion that worried me.

• 44:33Jocko Willink?

  So they think they've got it bad, but this other battalion had been in a serious gunfight and taken some pretty significant casualties, including losing their leader, the leader of the battalion.

• 44:53Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, the condition of our feet was becoming a major problem for the battalion. An old complaint suffered by troops during many wars was afflicting us in modern war. Trench foot. Our boots, badly and cheaply made, coupled with our old fashioned socks and puttees

• 45:13Jocko Willink?

  caused this condition. And puttees are like, I wonder if you've ever seen those old kind of school, World War I? They're like leggings or like gaiters. You know what gaiters are? They kind of cover your shoes. They kind of cover your boots. It was characterized by a dull, thumping ache all over the foot with blueness at the edges. Some say it's similar to frostbite, which some lads also got.

• 45:43Jocko Willink?

  Now they hold up for the night. And then as he's sleeping, we get this, "Corporal B, Corporal B." That's who we're talking about right now. That's Vince, Vince Bramley. They call him Corporal B a bunch. "Corporal B, Corporal B," a voice whispered into the trench. "Steve and I came around together. I looked up to see four platoon's officer looking down at me." "Yes, sir," I replied. "Vince, isn't it?" "Yes, sir." Being asked your first name wasn't unusual between officers and men in the field. "Sorry, old boy, bad news for you." In my half-sleep, I couldn't think of anything worse than being woken up. Orders from the boss: "We're pulling out at first light and marching to Estancia." He said. "Estancia? Where the fuck is that?" I asked.

• 46:28Jocko Willink?

  It was another thirty to fifty kilometers away, towards Stanley, we learned. Stanley again is the capital. Steve and I looked at each other, as we sat in the bottom of our trench, too numb to speak. I broke the silence first. "This is getting fucking stupid, Steve. March here, dig there, we're dropping down like flies, and now more. Do or die marching, without resting." Steve started laughing at my moaning, his teeth shining in the dark. "What are you so happy about?" I said. "Just the thought of more pain for the cause." Pain. Jesus, he was right. My feet would die before me, I thought.

• 47:08Jocko Willink?

  As I drifted back to sleep, I thought of my old corporal, who trained me, Corporal Deering. We hated him for his hard methods. He used to say, "Pain doesn't matter, the mind does the work."

• 47:22Jocko Willink?

  He was right, so right. His voice was screaming in my ears now, four years later. It was going to be mind over matter. "There is wisdom in the para's training method..." "Methods." I thought briefly of my parents, who, over the years, had had a rough time with my slobbish attitude. I had been in and out of all sorts of trouble before joining the army. I said to myself, that if I died with a bullet in the head, at least it would be better than warring them into an early grave with my attitude. But to drop out now, and be branded a wanker, would be unbearable. I owed a lot to everyone: my old NCO, my parents, and above all, to the lads around me.

• 48:06Jocko Willink?

  A para team cannot work without everyone giving their best. It's the lads you fight and work for. You come second.

• 48:21Jocko Willink?

  So, obviously, more patrolling, more boots, boots, boots, over the Falkland Islands, another thirty kilometers up and down, crappy terrain. Back to the book, we are now within the enemy's artillery range. The CO has ordered that we will dig shell scraps for protection. No movement like walking around, etc., until ordered tomorrow. So now they're within enemy artillery range, which, we don't like artillery around here, not when it's coming towards us at least. They, they're taking a look at each other, seeing where they're at. "Steve and Tomma looked at my feet, wondering if I would be able to carry on.

• 49:06Jocko Willink?

  I found a bandage hidden in my webbing and cut it up to make small dressings for my blisters and toes. I thought the fresh air would do them help. Leaving my boots off that night was by, was, leaving my boots off that night was to be my worst mistake so far. After a freezing cold and sleepless night, the morning light showed me two swollen feet and the hardest frozen pair of boots imaginable. Putting those boots back on was agony. We marched for about four hours until the whole battalion had rendezvous. By the time we reached this point, I was nearly crying in pain.

• 49:50Jocko Willink?

  My hips had bad webbing burns and my feet were two raw blobs. As I slumped against a peak, a peat bank, Jimmy Moreham murmured that I looked like death warmed up. I felt like it, too. Within two weeks, we looked like a ragged bone army. Our faces were drawn with the loss of weight, our uniforms matted and soaked, our boots were damaged and we were hungry for solid food. Despite all this, morale was very high in the reassuring knowledge that we had marched and taken most of the island without a battle or a loss of life so far." So they, they're making rapid progress. And they're not really coming up against any enemy, the, the enemy's retreating.

• 50:35Jocko Willink?

  Every time they roll into a place, they find remnants of where the enemy was, or they have intelligence that was, the enemy was there, but the enemy's just leaving. So it's just them against nature, that's where it's been for the most part at this point.

• 50:50Jocko Willink?

  They keep, they keep humping. We shuffled together and we were informed that we would be marching straight on to Mount Longden that night. The battle was about to begin. So this is a prominent piece of terrain called Mount, Mount Longden. We had no time for last letters or anything else. We packed our kit and were briefed and ready to go within two hours. The battalion formed up and marched uphill again, spilling out of the settlement towards the summit of Estancia. The route we took was atrocious. We crossed a rock field of some sort. The rocks were sharp and jagged. In four hours, we only covered three kilometers. Sweat ran down us like water. I stopped at one stage to take off my soaking long johns.

• 51:37Jocko Willink?

  We came to halt as the order, "Turn back, turn back" hit our ears. "What's the fucking matter now?" someone shouted. "Just turn back and do as you're told," screamed an officer. Just on the other side of the hill, out of the view of Stanley, which is the, the capital, the lads, lads had been ordered back. Why? Shortly after, we learned that the cabbage heads, so they call, that's the Marines and there's Marines, Royal Marines are down there working and, and running some of the major operations and they call them cabbage heads. Shortly after, we learned that the cabbage heads running the show hadn't agreed to our advance. They didn't think we should take the risk of going into battle on our own. So the, the Marines wanted to be there with them. So they said, "Oh, don't, don't go to, to, uh, Longden yet."

• 52:27Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, as we were milling around a peat fire with nine squadron, a chopper came down from one of the mountains. Some nosey la, lads ran towards it and quickly brought back a report that some Marines had been in a blue on blue contact that night. So another blue on blue. A returning patrol had stumbled upon a mortar-based team asleep and had shot them as they lay in their sleeping bags.

• 52:52Jocko Willink?

  There were three to four dead. Whatever we felt about the Marines, we were sorry for them on that day.

• 53:00Jocko Willink?

  If you're out there and you use a gun for part of your job, whether you're in the police department, whether you're in a SWAT team, whether you're in the military, I'm telling you, the blue on blue happens. And you gotta do all you can to train for situations and always be aware that it can't happen. People don't think it can happen, that's why it happens.

• 53:25Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, on 10 June, we had orders that something was going down soon. We stripped our weapons thoroughly, and oiled and greased them. The PC issued 50 rounds per gun for balancing. That's basically test firing and probably doing some kind of a timing drill on your weapon to make sure that it's good to go. Bob Geddes immediately balanced his gun by firing across the water inlet into the sea. Tony Jones was just setting up his when the QM, that's a quartermaster guy in charge of supplies and logistics, came screaming over and ordered us not to waste ammo. We pointed out that the guns needed balancing, but his narrow mind wouldn't have it.

• 54:08Jocko Willink?

  He walked away pleased by the thought of saving ammo. In fact, he caused a major fuck-up with all the guns in the battle. Only two of the six worked. 50 rounds through each might have saved lives and would have at least provided better firepower for the battalion.

• 54:27Jocko Willink?

  So you got a guy, the supply guy, hey, don't test fire your weapons. Don't do that right now, it's save the ammunition. Now, they did realize that they were gonna have an ammunition shortage, that was gonna be a problem. But you're not gonna have an ammunition shortage if your guns don't work.

• 54:45Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, the PC came down and we gathered round him eagerly. He stood faintly grinning at us. Spit it out, sir, said Johnny Cook. Orders in a half an hour, tonight, lads. Green light. See you by the model in a half an hour. So, the model, he's talking about they built a little, you know, terrain model so that they could...

• 55:09Jocko Willink?

  Kind of draw out where everyone's going, kind of go through the plan. And this is what they're talking about now is the assault on Mount Longden, which is about to begin. Begins with getting into position and finally

• 55:26Jocko Willink?

  they are in position, the assault is getting started, things start going sideways, pretty damn quickly. Back to the book, Lieutenant Oliver rushed over to our position, "Right, listen in," he said. "I felt like saying I was anyway, but for the time joking was over." "B Company have had to change their tactics a bit." "Corporals Bramley's and Cook's teams will follow myself and Captain Mason into A Company positions, "while Corporal Tomo, Tomo, Rawlings and Peers will go to another task." Okay, so things are going crazy, they start to move, he starts to move with Lieutenant Oliver towards this other position. Back to the book, we'd run about 200 meters. "We were all still together, but now the run had become a fast stumbling walk."

• 56:11Jocko Willink?

  "The noise of battle continued to grow, continued to our right now as we moved around the slope." "Suddenly a zipping sound whipped across my face." "I didn't think anything of it as I walked and stumbled to keep up." "Then three or four more zips hit the ground in front of, in front and at my feet." "I still carried on." "I was walking behind Lieutenant Oliver." "As I was walking behind Lieutenant Oliver, we saw bodies lying all over the place." "I thought, what the fuck are they doing lying there? Jesus Christ, fucking lying there and we're struggling?" "I saw a lad kneeling over a guy in a sleeping bag." "I remember as I got to them, just watching him." "A low moaning was coming from the sleeping bag."

• 56:54Jocko Willink?

  "I'd gone about 20 paces when several more zips hit the ground, sending a small shockwave all around me." For fuck's sake, are you completely nuts or what? Some guy shouted. What? Asked Lieutenant Oliver. Do you know a sniper's picking at us? We stopped, frozen solid in our trucks, then fell to the ground. Our small column now joining the bodies lying all over the place. We'd walked into A Company's form up, where they had been stopped by a sniper. Lying there, it hit me like a sledgehammer. The zips had been, that had been missing me by inches. They were sniper fire. I lay there thinking, you fucking idiot Vince. I cursed myself all the time.

• 57:38Jocko Willink?

  We lay there blaming myself for an unprofessional act, but then I'd never been shot at before. And my mind had been so occupied with moving, that the zipping sound seemed unconnected with the battle.

• 57:52Jocko Willink?

  So like I said, first time being shot at, and he didn't know what it was. And I've told this story on here before, but the first time I got shot at, or the first time I was receiving fire was in Humvees. And I thought someone was throwing cigarettes out onto the road. And I was like, who the hell's smoking in that Humvee ahead of me? But it was rounds hitting the Humvee. So, and, and I was the same way. I was just like, didn't, it didn't occur to me.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  When it hits you, that, that they're bullets, are you like in shock? Or, or do you just kind of shift into, you know?

• 58:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I shifted into game time, but it took me. Uh, not, it wasn't, it was a pretty slow transition.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:24Jocko Willink?

  You know? Uh, it, it took me, it took me to think through the whole process of. Who's smoking a cigarette? Wait, why are they throwing cigarettes? Wait, why do they have so many cigarettes? Is the entire Humvee smoking a cigarette and putting them all out right now? And it wasn't like a massive volume of fire, but it was rounds hitting.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, it can be one.

• 58:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, that's the, uh.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  Wait, so you saw it on, on another Humvee in front of you, kind of, because you saw the sparks?

• 58:48Jocko Willink?

  I saw sparks coming off of it. And I thought, hmm, some.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  Throwing cigarettes.

• 58:52Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, someone's throwing, why is someone throwing a cigarette out?

• 58:54Speaker 01

  Holy cow.

• 58:55Jocko Willink?

  Same, same thing. I will say this though, we, where the first time I got shot at, when I wasn't in a vehicle. You, I heard the rounds going over and I knew what it was because I was used to it from when we do butts, I don't know how else to explain it. When you shoot on a range, like when you go sight in your rifle, you shoot on the range and, and some of us guys, you go down and you work the targets for the other guys. So you're in basically in a bunker kind of.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 59:22Jocko Willink?

  Or you're behind a big berm.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:24Jocko Willink?

  And you put the target up for your guys and then when they shoot at you, pull it back down, you mark it with these discs so that they know where their shots hit so they can make adjustments. Then you put it back up again. So when you're doing that, then you do it at different distances. They shoot from different distances. They shoot from a hundred yards and they shoot from 300 yards and they shoot from 500 yards and they shoot from 800 yards. So you could just hear all these different ones and the further out they get, the more you hear the actual sound of the round going over you.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 59:50Jocko Willink?

  And at certain ranges, you can hear it breaking the sound barrier and it's, and it's pretty loud. It's a, it's a crack more. But then when they get far enough away, it, you don't hear that anymore. And it just sounds like he's talking about like a little zip, like a little, you know. It's, it's a, but I knew what it was. The first time I ever got shot at, I knew exactly what it was.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. It's crazy.

• 1:00:11Jocko Willink?

  I knew what was, well, that's the first time I got shot at, not in Humvee.

• 1:00:14Speaker 01

  Right, not in the Humvee.

• 1:00:16Jocko Willink?

  Which by the way, I got shot at first, that was the first time I ever got shot at, was it was in the Humvee.

• 1:00:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:00:23Jocko Willink?

  All right. Going back to the book, the battle was raging on the hill. Artillery shells were landing there, adding to the ricochet of bullets. If you slowly raised your head, you could watch the free firework display because that's what it looked like. The odd shout could be heard and the odd scream, but it was the sound of rifle, machine gun and artillery that dominated the night. So we've gone from, hey, we're out on patrol and we're looking. Now they're in full, there's a full battle going on. After about an hour, we were all getting pissed off with this fucking sniper. Something had to be done and quick. He was holding up 130 minutes. So these guys are pinned down. They're, they're pinned down.

• 1:01:01Jocko Willink?

  And the idea was finding the plan that they come up with is they're going to use a Milan, call them Milan. It's like a, well, short range, kind of. It's like a bazooka, but it's wire guided. So you can actually steer it a little bit. It's a missile, a little hand carried missile. And that's the plan is to use that to shoot from where they think the sniper is shooting from. So they get in position, they get the Milan in position and then they're going to, once they shoot with a Milan, they're going to shoot their machine guns at it.

• 1:01:29Jocko Willink?

  Standby, shouted Captain Mason. My feet were forgotten, my mind emptied of any thoughts, but my eyes were completely alive staring at the area of the fin. He's talking about this terrain feature that looked like a shark fin and possible target. Fire!

• 1:01:46Jocko Willink?

  Ging led off the Milan. The rocket whooshed off the small portable frame and picked up its deadly speed. After 120 meters, it was at its deadliest. We were only about 90 meters from the target. By the way, if you're a sniper shooting at you from 90 meters, that is scary. He's not missing. Ging managed to guide the wire missile, to wire guide the missile on target. The explosion ripped into the night, sending sparks everywhere. Bob pressed the trigger and our gun burst to life for a few seconds, then stopped. Stoppage, screamed Bob. I tried to lift the feed, the cover off the top of the GPMG, but the night sight was in the way. I ripped off the night sight from the weapon and threw it into Sass's hands. It's another guy Sass.

• 1:02:32Jocko Willink?

  I cleared the gun and reloaded. Bob was just about to fire again when a zipping sound ripped into the ground right in front of our tripod. We both ducked behind the bank. The enemy's bullets whizzed over our heads and all around us. Ging was laughing and shouted, "They've seen you all right. Fucking brilliant, isn't it? My knight and the bloody guns packed up." Captain Mason shouted over from behind us, "Reload, reload. CS9 wants another one up there." So they want him to hit it again, hit that sniper position again with the Milan, which they do. And they eventually take care of that problem and are able to move on.

• 1:03:16Jocko Willink?

  Now, they start coming back down from that, from that supporting position. Cause that's what they're doing is the most part, they're assigned into supporting positions to get the high ground and support the assault as they're happening. They come back down from that. We reached the bottom of the hill at about 0030 hours.

• 1:03:36Jocko Willink?

  The battle had been going for some three and a half hours. We came up to the FAP, that's their first aid post, and walked past a line of guys lying there moaning in half silence. The medics were busy with all the wounded. There seemed to be about 25 guys working and wounded in the group. We were sitting some 20 meters from them in the darkness and we could only just see the scene by the light of the moon. A sergeant from battalion HQ came over and told, came over to us and Lieutenant Oliver and Captain Mason stood up to meet him. "We have three confirmed dead at this moment," he said. "Murdoch, Scott, and Greenwood." "We know there are more, but we can't get to them as yet." So Murdoch, if you remember the guy that was making fun of, making funny faces when

• 1:04:19Jocko Willink?

  they were on the boat coming in, confirmed dead. Their conversation continued around our coming task and that the RSM was coming to meet us. I sat in a trance. I couldn't believe that we had lost guys. Today it seems crazy that I should think like this. Why? I can only put it down to the fact that I was still in my own little world of make-believe. We would win the war without getting anyone killed. The death of those three guys hit me like a brick. Total shock. Murdoch, or simply Doc. Doc, who I'd been chatting with on the way to our start line after we bumped into B Company, now dead.

• 1:05:01Jocko Willink?

  Scotty from the MT Platoon, that's the Motor Transport Platoon, Leg Greenwood, recently nicknamed Fester because of his sleeping habits. My mind was blank to the conversation around me. Johnny nudged me. "Vince, we're moving, mate." This woke me to the reality of it all. I was now fully alert for surely there was more to come. So now, they're getting to another, like I said, their job has been doing, supporting, supporting arms, which is basically cover and move on a big scale. That's what they're doing. You've got a group, this, this machine gun platoon with the Milan, with the heavy machine guns, they're getting into elevated positions to cover for another element, another company, or another battalion to go in and assault a target.

• 1:05:46Jocko Willink?

  This is classic cover and move situation and they're in the cover position in most of these situations. And that's what's going on where we come back to the book, they're in another elevated firing position. Back to the book. Corporal B, get ready. I waited for the command sergeant major to give the orders to fire. The wait was longer than I expected and my fingers stayed on the trigger, frozen, waiting. As I sat waiting for the command, other voices came to my ears from among the sounds of battle. The voices of the wounded. Everywhere, their cries pitched in with those survivors still struggling and screaming frantically at each other to move there or move here. But the wounded were unlike anything else.

• 1:06:31Jocko Willink?

  Their cries could be heard above the uninjured. Their shouts were desperate. My mind went blank. My eyes were wide open with fright for them. My mouth dried as I lay there. The seconds seemed like hours. Their anguished moaning and crying is here in my ears now, as I write. No matter what I or others did to try and ignore them, they somehow grew, seemed to grow louder and louder. I burned with frustration. One victim, who I later found out was Baz Barrett, seemed so near, groaning and shouting,

• 1:07:12Jocko Willink?

  "Help me, please. Don't leave me. For fuck's sake, help. I can't move." Someone further along to our left called out, "For Christ's sake, I'm dying. Don't let them bury me here. Please, please." I shouted out, "Hang on. Don't me, don't move. For fuck's sake, keep quiet." I started to crawl from my position. I wanted to help them. The platoon commander grabbed my arm. "Leave it, Corporal B. Leave it." I looked at him. "Why?" "Because a sniper has already picked off about five or six guys that have tried to help.

• 1:07:57Jocko Willink?

  The top says no more, okay?" I slumped to the ground with a feeling of total helplessness. It was the worst feeling that anyone can imagine. As I tried not to think it was real, the cries continued. "Oh God, I'm hitting the chest. I'm all wet. Please, help." The crying went on and on.

• 1:08:25Jocko Willink?

  Some wounded guys had been dragged or had crawled away from the main impact area only to be pinned down elsewhere.

• 1:08:33Jocko Willink?

  My mind seethed with anger. "Corporal B, stand by!" The CSM screamed. The command to follow killed off all the cries and moaning. The weapon broke a stream of fire at the Argentinian positions, three to five rounds bursting across the summit. The steady rate of fire continued as the CSM shouted across to change direction using our tracer rounds as indicators. All six guns opened up, our tracers ripped across the summit to the other end of the mountain, the bullets bouncing and ricocheting in all directions.

• 1:09:17Jocko Willink?

  So... Hammering the target, they're hammering the enemy from where the enemy is shooting and obviously, I mean, what a wretched description of being within the sound of the voices of your wounded men who you cannot help because they're pinned down by snipers.

• 1:09:39Jocko Willink?

  Eventually, they... This, I mean, this goes on for a long time, they're in this supporting position, they're laying down fire, they're shooting thousands and thousands and thousands of rounds. Back to the book, the CSM shouted, "Stop, stop!" Worn out, we rested our heads on the ground.

• 1:09:58Jocko Willink?

  The battle had now been going on for some 11 hours.

• 1:10:03Jocko Willink?

  How long we had lain there firing, I did not know.

• 1:10:08Jocko Willink?

  The CSM came over, "Well done. A company are moving through to our left now. We've covered them and given them all the help we could give. The rest is up to them, we can't fire anymore, it'd get to them, it's too close now. It'll be light in an hour or so. Pull the gun back and dismount it." Sir, did we get any? Asked Bob. More than enough, he replied, and walked away. Had we killed? We must have.

• 1:10:41Jocko Willink?

  I felt nothing afterwards, just relaxed. I hadn't seen our targets, they had been hidden in darkness. We hadn't killed at the end of a bayonet or through a rifle sight. We had killed with a spray of machine gun bullets. It didn't seem personal. It was as if the enemy hadn't existed at all.

• 1:11:15Jocko Willink?

  They complete that mission and then, yes.

• 1:11:24Jocko Willink?

  They crawl back to a little bit of a covered position away from where they had been, supporting, and then, here we go, back to the book, about seventy meters away, the ground exploded in a mass of earth, shrapnel, and rock. Then another shell came over, this time further to our right. I looked down the hill as the shell exploded and saw an unbelievable display of flying red sparks, deadly shrapnel. The ground shook as shell after shell fell behind us. The first minutes of shelling were terrifying.

• 1:12:00Jocko Willink?

  So, they've been, this is it, now, now they started, we mentioned that they were on artillery range, and we all know what an absolute horror show artillery is.

• 1:12:13Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, in the distance, a booming sound began that carried over the area. Someone screamed, incoming, incoming. Sure enough, the air disappeared, there was a whoosh, and the explosion killed any remaining piece. The shells came in thick and fast, I lay watching the red glowing shrapnel flying by.

• 1:12:33Jocko Willink?

  Now the shrapnel was creeping up towards me, the explosions getting so loud, I thought they would deafen me. The shells were landing about fifty meters away, four or five shells would hit an area in a salvo, then the next batch would hit about ten meters nearer.

• 1:12:49Jocko Willink?

  The booming from Stanley could still be heard in the gaps between explosions in our areas. As I lay there watching the shrapnel getting closer, I found myself shaking. Was it from cold, or fright? My legs shook, and I couldn't control them at all. The next salvo landed thirty meters away. I curled up into a ball as the shrapnel splintered the rocks around me. A piece of shrapnel landed in my little alcove, still burning with fury, sizzling into the dirt by my waist. Four or five more shells landed around us, and then it stopped, as if it'd never begun. The air was misty as though a fog had swept over us. I lay back praying it was over.

• 1:13:36Jocko Willink?

  In the half-light of the false dawn, I could now hear shouting all down the hill. Some guys were screaming like mad. One voice went right through me, the scream of a man who knows he's about to die.

• 1:13:48Jocko Willink?

  All over the hill, people were shouting, "Medic, medic."

• 1:13:54Jocko Willink?

  I was about to crawl from my hole when another shell hit the ground. I hadn't even heard it coming. I fell on my face and stayed there for a few seconds. Another shell landed nearby. This time, a shower of dirt fell on my back.

• 1:14:10Jocko Willink?

  I crawled back into my hole, and curled up again, waiting. My body shook uncontrollably. The shells landed in thick salvos, the noise and explosions around me, making my head spin as if someone were banging it against a wall.

• 1:14:27Jocko Willink?

  I willed it to stop, but the shells carried on, landing around me. Then, this second bombardment, within minutes, ended as suddenly as it had begun.

• 1:14:42Jocko Willink?

  So horrible, horrible situation that they're in. And much like we talked about the Germans having their mortars dialed in and their artillery dialed in, it's the same thing, you're in the Falkland Islands, there's obvious terrain features. So when you're holding a city, like the Argentinians military is in the city of Stanley, well, they know where they're gonna get attacked from, and they know what are good firing positions, so they have those positions dialed into their artillery. And they can just start hammering them. Back to the book, I can remember the OC shouting behind me, "Move, move, their artillery will be here soon again." So now they're trying to move.

• 1:15:25Jocko Willink?

  Sergeant P waited only for me to squeeze myself through the gap before he took off again. After we had gone about four or five steps, a hand dropped out of the rocks, grabbing at my ankle and denims. The shock of it made us jump. Instantly Sergeant P was back with me. We both looked at my feet, still holding my denims was a wounded Argie. His eyes were staring at me, pleading perhaps, full of sorrow. Sergeant P shouted, "Step, step back Brammers." I tried to step back, but the wounded soldier tightened his grip on me. I leaned back as Sergeant P pointed his weapon and fired two bullets into the man's head,

• 1:16:07Jocko Willink?

  the noise of his weapon echoing around the small gap. Tomo and Johnny were behind me now, the Argie's head bounced quickly as the two rounds entered him. His eyes rolled to the back of his head, and his mouth opened to the release a trickle of blood and saliva, which ran down his chin onto his shirt collar. At the same time, his hand gave up its grasp on my denims and dropped onto my boot. I flicked my boot as if I was playing football. His hand and arm dropped across his body, and from his mouth came a low whistle of air mixed with blood. All this took seconds, but it seemed like a lifetime to me, each detail remains with me today.

• 1:16:50Jocko Willink?

  The sight of this guy dying at my feet shocked me, but I was growing harder. Although shaken, I felt no remorse at the time. The deadly game of war lay at my feet. Only I mattered.

• 1:17:07Jocko Willink?

  The rights of wrongs, the rights and wrongs of war can never be argued from the armchair. Decisions are made on the spot, questions asked afterwards. That lone Argie could have been rigged to a booby trap, or even armed. The kill was done quickly and professionally. I felt that I should have acted as quickly as Sergeant P. "Come on, move!" he shouted.

• 1:17:36Jocko Willink?

  Sergeant P screamed in order for me to follow him. As we trotted further into the clearing, we had to jump over the twisted pile of corpses.

• 1:17:45Jocko Willink?

  My mind was never, nor has since been, so alert. Adrenaline was rushing through my body so quickly that I felt I was floating with excitement mingled with fear. A little further into the clearing lay three or four Argentinians visibly shaken, shaking visibly, close together on the ground. We ran, half-walked through a deadly, sickening area of death. They looked up as we arrived. All had been seriously wounded and were moaning and crying.

• 1:18:18Jocko Willink?

  One held up his hands across his eyes and shouted "Mama".

• 1:18:23Jocko Willink?

  I felt he thought that we were, or I was, about to shoot him. He went on calling for his mama in a low wail.

• 1:18:34Jocko Willink?

  One Argentinian sat in a trance, his eyes wide and staring at nothing. Tears ran down his face, the only sign that he was alive. None of them moved. All looked like they expected to be shot by us. But we ran past.

• 1:18:54Jocko Willink?

  The whole area was littered with weapons, helmets, clothing, and food, and ammo.

• 1:19:02Jocko Willink?

  A few bullets whizzed overhead and smashed into the rocks. A corporal shouted, "That tumble-down", this is another prominent terrain feature, tumble-down was firing at us. We ran into a tight gap in the path and all came to an abrupt halt as it was a dead end.

• 1:19:21Jocko Willink?

  Four or five bodies lay sprawled there, close together.

• 1:19:25Jocko Willink?

  This time, they were our own men. The camouflaged pair of smocks hit my eyes immediately.

• 1:19:33Jocko Willink?

  CSM Wicks was standing over them like a guardian, screaming at some of his men to cover the further end of the path in the small crest. The CSM and Sergeant P exchanged quick words. I wasn't listening. My mind was totally occupied with looking into the crags for the enemy.

• 1:19:53Jocko Willink?

  I turned to look at our own lads, dead on the ground, mowed down when they tried to rush through this gap.

• 1:20:00Jocko Willink?

  I felt both anger and sadness.

• 1:20:04Jocko Willink?

  The CSM's face showed the strain of having seen most of his company either wounded or shot dead.

• 1:20:12Jocko Willink?

  That night's fighting was written in every line of his face.

• 1:20:17Jocko Willink?

  We all doubled back into the clearing we had just run through. We spread out and waited for our next move. A wounded Argentinean lay right next to me, ten meters away. He'd been hit in the chest and screamed as he held the wound. A lad from B Company ran across the clearing at him and ran his bayonet through him.

• 1:20:42Jocko Willink?

  The screaming Argentinean tried to grab the bayonet from him before it took his life.

• 1:20:49Jocko Willink?

  Our lad screamed, "Shut up! Shut up, you cunt!"

• 1:20:54Jocko Willink?

  The enemy soldier died as the bayonet was withdrawn.

• 1:20:59Jocko Willink?

  The lad walked back to his seat among the rocks, as if nothing had happened.

• 1:21:07Jocko Willink?

  To my right, three Argentinians were crying with their heads in their hands. Were they the dead man's friends?

• 1:21:16Jocko Willink?

  At their feet lay one of our lads, moaning in pain as a medic attended to him.

• 1:21:22Jocko Willink?

  I could see his back was peppered with shrapnel.

• 1:21:26Jocko Willink?

  I swung to my left and fell against some rocks.

• 1:21:30Jocko Willink?

  I now felt the shock of it all coursing through my body. I wailed softly, my throat feeling like I wanted to choke.

• 1:21:40Jocko Willink?

  My eyes watered, and I shook my head to force myself into reality.

• 1:21:47Jocko Willink?

  But this was reality.

• 1:21:51Jocko Willink?

  I looked for Bob and Johnny.

• 1:21:55Jocko Willink?

  I couldn't see Bob, but Johnny was there staring right at me.

• 1:22:00Jocko Willink?

  Our eyes met telling each other that we felt the end had come.

• 1:22:07Jocko Willink?

  A lad, resting with his rifle pointed towards Tumble Down, turned, fell into a tight ball curling himself up as he hit the ground screaming, "Incoming, incoming!"

• 1:22:20Jocko Willink?

  We all dropped to the ground crawling behind rocks wherever we could. The first shell went over us onto the west side of the mountain.

• 1:22:29Jocko Willink?

  Then the shells started to creep up towards us, and one thumped into the clearing hitting a rock about thirty meters away.

• 1:22:38Jocko Willink?

  The ground shook as if we'd been hit by an earthquake. Shrapnel pierced the ground or bounced off of rocks all around us. Grant Grinum screamed out, shrapnel had hit his leg. Two of his mates were pulling him into better cover as the shells rained down us, around us again.

• 1:22:58Jocko Willink?

  Soon after, Corporal Stuart McLaughlin McLaughlin was hit in the back by shrapnel. He was later killed by a direct mortar hit as he was being taken to a first aid post.

• 1:23:14Jocko Willink?

  I lay there trembling as shells roared over us. Each explosion shook more fear into us.

• 1:23:26Jocko Willink?

  We had centered our group about halfway along the mountain. The OC shouted us to split up a bit, otherwise a direct hit would cause a heavy loss. Three or four anti-tank lads got up and ran to a bunker on the other side of the hill as another salvo came rushing in on us. A shell crashed into the rock above the OC, sending shrapnel and rock in the opposite direction to us.

• 1:23:54Jocko Willink?

  He looked up at all of us as we looked at him, expecting him to be dead, since the shell had only landed a few meters from us all. He shouted across, "Well, that was a naughty one, wasn't it?" We laughed, unanimous in appreciation of his complete calm.

• 1:24:14Jocko Willink?

  The shells came in for over an hour. We just laid there, hoping, praying that it would end soon.

• 1:24:24Jocko Willink?

  I lay looking straight into Johnny's face, who at times would poke out his tongue or do his grin again.

• 1:24:32Jocko Willink?

  The shelling stopped, as usual, as suddenly as it had began.

• 1:24:38Jocko Willink?

  I stood up and saw Kev Connery crouched by a rock. "Kev!", I screamed. He looked over and smiled. "Get your arse over here, you twop!"

• 1:24:49Jocko Willink?

  He had started to walk towards us when two or three more shells hit home. We all flopped to the ground once more. The vibration of the explosion shook us and the earth landed on our backs.

• 1:25:02Jocko Willink?

  We jumped up to see Kev running towards us. He jumped into our little opening. "Jesus, fuck me!", he said. "I've had a right night of it, too." "Where's Johnny Crow and Skiddy, mate?", I asked. Kev looked into my face and said, "Johnny's dead."

• 1:25:20Jocko Willink?

  He's dead Vince, killed outright. Skitty's been wounded, only me left. Oh for fuck's sake, how?

• 1:25:30Jocko Willink?

  In the attack, a burst of rounds hit Johnny square in the chest. I reckon he was dead before he hit the ground, Kev explained.

• 1:25:37Jocko Willink?

  We carried on chatting about the situation in general. Rick Westy was brewing up for us when we heard the booming sound again from Stanley. Incoming, someone screamed. Not again, Johnny shouted. We were getting more scared with each bombardment. We hit the ground and fought to get legs, arms, and bodies more comfy and secure than each other's. At this rate, they'll get us. We can't have luck on our side forever, you know, I shouted as the shells exploded around us. I lay next to Kev, we both faced the mess tin where a cuppa was brewing. A shell landed not three meters away, sending shrapnel and dirt in our direction.

• 1:26:19Jocko Willink?

  Rocks and earth fell around us, then over us, as if we were about to be buried alive. Both Kev and I automatically reached out to cover the mess tin in the water that was coming to a boil. The dirt landed on our hands and the brew was saved. Everyone burst out laughing. Talk about a time of crisis to all, let's have a cup of tea, Johnny shouted.

• 1:26:53Jocko Willink?

  Brutal.

• 1:26:56Jocko Willink?

  The, you know, great account, and I know we've, we've been done, gone through a lot of accounts of being shelled with artillery, that's a, that's a very descriptive and granular one.

• 1:27:09Jocko Willink?

  And, uh...

• 1:27:11Jocko Willink?

  It's not over.

• 1:27:14Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book. Kev and I walked up and over the hill. Ricky followed us armed with a smock order, with every pocket filled with mags for our SLRs. We came to a clearing. Ricky was busy looking to one side of us when suddenly Kev and I heard moaning. We stepped up on a ledge and came face to face with a wounded Argie. Sitting beside him was his friend who obviously wouldn't leave him. The wounded soldier had been shot in both knees and in his chest and arms. Blood showed on all the wounds. His face showed no pain, merely pleading. His mate stood up and put his hands up. No one had seen these two until now.

• 1:27:58Jocko Willink?

  I pointed my rifle and bayonet and nodded towards the wounded guy. He started wailing and moaning and put both hands together as if praying to me. Kev pulled a pistol from his belt.

• 1:28:13Jocko Willink?

  "Well Vince, we either shoot them or help them. What will it be?" Kev lowered his pistol and looked at me. I raised my rifle and framed the wounded Argie's head right in the sight.

• 1:28:26Jocko Willink?

  The man looked down as if he was expecting death, knowing that he could do nothing about it.

• 1:28:32Jocko Willink?

  He wailed louder.

• 1:28:37Jocko Willink?

  I lowered my rifle.

• 1:28:40Jocko Willink?

  "Kev, he looks like my neighbor. I'll help them, okay?" "Yeah, okay. I'm off to find some goodies." He walked off. I motioned to his mate to sit on the other side of the wounded guy while I placed my weapon to one side of me and went down to help. The wounded Argie's mate shook his head, looking at my rifle. "Me friend, me friend, you friend. You helped my friend. We all friends now," he pleaded. I looked at him and gave him a small grin. He grinned back. I didn't trust him one bit.

• 1:29:17Jocko Willink?

  The wounded guy started to cry. It was then that I felt sad. Sad that I had thought of killing them and that we were all in this mess together.

• 1:29:28Jocko Willink?

  We had different views and different homes, but there, we were all together.

• 1:29:36Jocko Willink?

  I still hated the enemy, but just then, when that guy started to cry, I felt different.

• 1:29:42Jocko Willink?

  We all had to be hard. Hard to the facts of what was happening to all of us.

• 1:29:48Jocko Willink?

  Kill or be killed.

• 1:29:55Jocko Willink?

  I made my way back to where our team was stationed. I got there as Rick was sitting down. The OC was busy with orders. Vince, we're out of water. Got any? Johnny asked. No, I replied. Just then, Captain Mason shouted, "Had any of you seen Peter Hettaker around?"

• 1:30:14Jocko Willink?

  "I saw him last night with Gin- with Ging and West, sir," I shouted. "Perhaps Westy'll know."

• 1:30:23Jocko Willink?

  Captain Mason looked at me with serious eyes.

• 1:30:27Jocko Willink?

  All the support team who were sitting there looked at Captain Mason and me.

• 1:30:32Jocko Willink?

  I felt something was wrong. The OC motioned me over. I got to him and crouched down.

• 1:30:40Jocko Willink?

  "Corporal B,

• 1:30:43Jocko Willink?

  Ging McCarthy was killed, and so was Philip West. The shell was meant for your gun team."

• 1:30:51Jocko Willink?

  A flashback of what had happened filled my mind. The smock pulled from my back, the spinning head, the deafness.

• 1:31:00Jocko Willink?

  "I must have missed you by inches, Corporal B. You okay?"

• 1:31:05Jocko Willink?

  "Yeah. I'm okay. I'll go find Hettaker then." Captain Mason came over. "Sir," he said to the OC, "Pete Hettaker was killed also.

• 1:31:18Jocko Willink?

  The bearers have now found his body."

• 1:31:24Jocko Willink?

  I stood up and walked back to my spot.

• 1:31:28Jocko Willink?

  I was gutted beyond belief. Pete had always been my mate.

• 1:31:35Jocko Willink?

  We'd spent many times together drinking in the shop.

• 1:31:40Jocko Willink?

  I met his family too.

• 1:31:43Jocko Willink?

  Now he was dead.

• 1:31:46Jocko Willink?

  Only a short while ago, I'd been sitting beside him.

• 1:31:52Jocko Willink?

  He'd said what a good spot he had. Now he was dead, killed by a shell that was meant for me.

• 1:32:03Jocko Willink?

  I'll never forget that I survived while he was killed.

• 1:32:16Jocko Willink?

  So they...

• 1:32:22Jocko Willink?

  They do some movement. They actually

• 1:32:27Jocko Willink?

  get back up into their positions to where they were, actually to where Ging had been when he had been killed. Going back to the book, we turned around to where Ging had lain. And walked back from the skyline to find a gap through which, to find the gap through which Sergeant P had led us.

• 1:32:47Jocko Willink?

  In this way, we avoided being seen from tumble down.

• 1:32:52Jocko Willink?

  On the ground, I saw bits of clothing and flesh.

• 1:32:58Jocko Willink?

  Everywhere resembled a slaughter yard.

• 1:33:03Jocko Willink?

  We walked down ten meters or so, and there was more and more. Stuck on the side of a rock was clearly a large piece. Johnny and I moved closer to it and my stomach churned as I saw the nose and cheek of a face.

• 1:33:22Jocko Willink?

  We looked at each other, our eyes wide. I put my bayonet under the flesh and flicked it to the ground before burying it quickly.

• 1:33:34Jocko Willink?

  Neither of us spoke.

• 1:33:38Jocko Willink?

  I had no doubts and Pete M confirmed to me that this was the remains of a mate.

• 1:33:46Jocko Willink?

  Pete told me later that he had died instantly, for only the waist down remained.

• 1:33:53Jocko Willink?

  I felt gutted beyond belief.

• 1:33:57Jocko Willink?

  I had been told of the direct hit that had also killed two others.

• 1:34:04Jocko Willink?

  To see it with my own eyes, the body and remains was another story.

• 1:34:13Jocko Willink?

  Walking over the crest, we bumped into Pat Harley.

• 1:34:19Jocko Willink?

  With him were one or two others, although I no longer remember who they were.

• 1:34:25Jocko Willink?

  As I was talking to Pat, I noticed a helmet on the end of an SLR planted in the rock face.

• 1:34:33Jocko Willink?

  Nodding towards this, Pat mentioned that he had come up and found Jordy Lang dead.

• 1:34:39Jocko Willink?

  We rounded the rock face and at our feet lay Doc and Jordy, both on their backs.

• 1:34:47Jocko Willink?

  They had died in an open space, with the infamous tumble-down looking down on them.

• 1:34:54Jocko Willink?

  Jordy had died trying to save Doc.

• 1:34:58Jocko Willink?

  The bastard sniper had caught him in the open as he reached him.

• 1:35:04Jocko Willink?

  Jordy lay with his mouth slightly open. Gunshot wounds to his chest and stomach meant he died quickly.

• 1:35:13Jocko Willink?

  Evidence around him showed that he had tried to reach Doc. He had been... had he been calling for him help himself? Pat, looking cut up, took Jordy's fags, saying he'd want us to have these rather than the rear echelon.

• 1:35:32Jocko Willink?

  We turned our attention to Doc, who was more depressing.

• 1:35:36Jocko Willink?

  Doc hadn't died quickly, quickly.

• 1:35:40Jocko Willink?

  He must in fact have been fully aware of his injuries.

• 1:35:45Jocko Willink?

  The top part of his skull was blown away, the brain visible smashed by a sniper's bullet.

• 1:35:52Jocko Willink?

  Only the fragmented skull had prevented the complete collapse of the side of his head.

• 1:35:59Jocko Willink?

  How he survived the impact, God knows. Laying beside him were items from the first aid kit he'd been carrying. Field dressing, half-open, safety pins in his right-hand fingers near the ground. His left hand held a morphine syringe.

• 1:36:16Jocko Willink?

  This had been used, the thin needle pointed towards him. It must have been his dying act. His radio mic was still attached to his throat. A close friend told me many months later, Doc fell on his radio. The sending switch was stuck and he was on permanent send to all of us.

• 1:36:39Jocko Willink?

  We could hear him gurgling and moaning as he became aware that he had been shot badly.

• 1:36:46Jocko Willink?

  Vince had sent the Sigler's nuts. But we were all helpless.

• 1:36:53Jocko Willink?

  The sniper picked at anyone that moved. Jordy tried and lost his life for it. We eventually had to turn on to the emergency frequency to establish communications again.

• 1:37:06Jocko Willink?

  Doc had remained conscious and eventually died on a part of that mountain. Alone with a lad who had bravely tried to rescue him.

• 1:37:25Jocko Willink?

  So, just to explain that, you know, on your, you have what's called a push-to-talk button on your radio.

• 1:37:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:37:36Jocko Willink?

  And however he fell, he fell and, and landed on that push-to-talk so that he was broadcasting his, you know, his death and his dying was broadcast over the network for everyone to hear.

• 1:38:02Jocko Willink?

  These guys, um, they still have to fight. And they start, yeah, they get some intelligence, they think there's a counterattack coming. And by the way, this, this intense fighting is, is a matter of days. So everything that we're talking about is happening in, in a couple of days. And now they think that there is a counterattack coming, so. They dig in, they get in position, they set their machine guns up from where they think the counterattack from the Argentinians is gonna come from, and then. They start getting mortared, again. Hit with artillery, here we go, back to the book, "We all hit the ground again as the shell landed. No sooner had I started to pick myself up, when a high pitched scream rushed into my

• 1:38:46Jocko Willink?

  ears, a deadly sound, I can still hear it today.

• 1:38:51Jocko Willink?

  I looked down to where the shell had hit, in the same area as before, the ground was smoldering, smoke lifting and evaporating.

• 1:39:00Jocko Willink?

  Five meters away from the hole. Lay two bodies.

• 1:39:06Jocko Willink?

  The sight of one of them will stay with me until I die.

• 1:39:10Jocko Willink?

  His parasimac was riddled with smoke escaping from every corner, the arms, bottom, and collar.

• 1:39:17Jocko Willink?

  The lad turned onto his back screaming, "Oh God, help me, help me, please."

• 1:39:24Jocko Willink?

  I ran down the hill, in fright and concern, I dropped to my knees by the screaming soldier, his eyes met mine. Did he register me?

• 1:39:35Jocko Willink?

  I only saw Denzel. Denzel, the character we all loved.

• 1:39:41Jocko Willink?

  I wrenched my eyes to his legs. One was hanging off, ripped to shreds, the bone clearly visible. His screaming churned my stomach, it was like nothing I'd ever heard, he tried to look down at his leg, "Don't fucking look this way," I barked, "Lay back down, hear me?"

• 1:39:59Jocko Willink?

  He dropped to his back, holding his thigh. Jonah Jones, a nine squadron lad, came to my side, "Vince, I'll deal with him, you see to him," he said, pointing to Craig Jones. Craig lay very close to Denzel.

• 1:40:15Jocko Willink?

  Clive rushed to help me. Craig hadn't any visible wounds. He lay quietly as Clive tried to talk to him.

• 1:40:24Jocko Willink?

  I tried to pull his smock open and pull his trousers down to check for a wound. Denzel screamed and moaned behind me, "Help me, help me!" Jonah was busy seeing to his leg.

• 1:40:35Jocko Willink?

  I pulled out my knife and started to cut through Craig's denims and quilted Arctic clothing. My frantic cutting was too slow and I knew it. The doctor skidded in beside me, pulled out his scissors and started to cut through Craig's leggings.

• 1:40:50Jocko Willink?

  I pulled the ripped material to one side. We had reached the skin.

• 1:40:55Jocko Willink?

  His legs had massive lacerations in all directions, spilling muscle and bone, but there wasn't hardly any blood.

• 1:41:04Jocko Willink?

  The doctor shouted to me to tie his muscles together. I pulled out my field dressings and tied the lacerations together. The doctor was joined by a medic who went to Denzel. I was half-conscious of cries of "Medic, medic, stretcher bearer!" all down the hill. Craig was lying still.

• 1:41:22Jocko Willink?

  I slid up beside him and looked into his face. It was pale with no color at all. His eyes stared into my face.

• 1:41:32Jocko Willink?

  "You'll be okay, Craig. Just hang on, mate. Hang on."

• 1:41:36Jocko Willink?

  Clive held his head, stroking his forehead, repeating my words. "Craig, can you hear me?" I shouted.

• 1:41:43Jocko Willink?

  The doctor pulled and tugged frantically at Craig's clothing, trying to reach more obvious wounds.

• 1:41:49Jocko Willink?

  "Craig, you'll be okay. Hang on."

• 1:41:53Jocko Willink?

  He looked at me and a slight smile came across his face.

• 1:41:59Jocko Willink?

  His eyes laughed at me. Bright and wild.

• 1:42:06Jocko Willink?

  His grin spread.

• 1:42:10Jocko Willink?

  Then all expression faded.

• 1:42:15Jocko Willink?

  He faded away.

• 1:42:19Jocko Willink?

  Craig. Craig, don't.

• 1:42:24Jocko Willink?

  Keep in there.

• 1:42:28Jocko Willink?

  His eyes closed.

• 1:42:32Jocko Willink?

  He died then and there.

• 1:42:37Jocko Willink?

  He was a young soldier. Twenty years of age.

• 1:42:43Jocko Willink?

  The records will say Private Craig Jones.

• 1:42:51Jocko Willink?

  The doctor motioned to bear to get him on and away.

• 1:42:57Jocko Willink?

  Denzel was also lifted and carried away.

• 1:43:02Jocko Willink?

  I fell onto my bottom.

• 1:43:06Jocko Willink?

  Jonah and Clive patted me on the shoulder. I tried to get up but fell to my knees again.

• 1:43:13Jocko Willink?

  I hadn't realized until then that I was crying, crying without knowing it.

• 1:43:20Jocko Willink?

  I cried with all the pain and sadness.

• 1:43:25Jocko Willink?

  It didn't seem fair.

• 1:43:30Jocko Willink?

  Johnny came to my side and picked me up. He picked up my weapon and started to guide me to our bunker again.

• 1:43:37Jocko Willink?

  I glanced at Steve and Sass. Sass was crying as well and Steve had his

• 1:43:43Jocko Willink?

  head buried

• 1:43:46Jocko Willink?

  in his hands.

• 1:43:49Jocko Willink?

  I stumbled to our bunker weeping.

• 1:43:54Jocko Willink?

  When I sat down Steve Wake put around his arm around me and whispered, "You done a brave thing Vince."

• 1:44:01Jocko Willink?

  I couldn't have gone down there after those shells landed in the same spot.

• 1:44:06Jocko Willink?

  You done alright mate.

• 1:44:09Jocko Willink?

  His gesture didn't register.

• 1:44:13Jocko Willink?

  I cried with exhaustion, hatred, and pity.

• 1:44:19Jocko Willink?

  Craig and Denzel remain with me today. Craig who died and Denzel who lost a leg and so nearly his life.

• 1:44:30Jocko Willink?

  When people write or tell of experiences of this kind, I know now that they can never really tell the facts for anyone to totally understand. For often, the reader is wrapped in his own make-believe game of war.

• 1:44:46Jocko Willink?

  For me personally, this five-minute experience changed my whole life and attitude towards war.

• 1:44:55Jocko Willink?

  Wars will always be fought, and I would go again for my beliefs, but I hope never again to see a face fade from me.

• 1:45:05Jocko Willink?

  It took nearly a year after this war for Craig's face to go before I slept. Nearly a year to wipe out Denzel's smock on fire and his scream.

• 1:45:22Jocko Willink?

  Until I die, it will remain a part of me.

• 1:45:40Jocko Willink?

  And because it is war,

• 1:45:44Jocko Willink?

  there is

• 1:45:47Jocko Willink?

  no time to mourn. And soon after that, they are marching for their final assault on Stanley, which is the capital city. Going back to the book after we had tabbed about 1,000 meters with wireless ridge clearly visible above us. The absence of troops and the silence of guns in Stanley began to produce some puzzled looks along the line of support company.

• 1:46:15Jocko Willink?

  Our OC shouted for a halt. We collapsed on the frosty ground to wait for orders. I looked up at the sky thinking, "What now? Who's fucked up this time? Let's just get this part started."

• 1:46:29Jocko Willink?

  A few shouts came down the line. I leant forward and saw that the line was breaking up and the men laughing.

• 1:46:36Jocko Willink?

  Sergeant Mick Matthews was sitting behind me, beside me. "What's going on Mick?" I asked. "Fuck knows Vince." The shouting continued as messages passed down towards us. A guy three or four positions down from us suddenly turned around and shouted, "The wankers have surrendered." "A white flag is flying over Stanley. Put your berets on... endex. Endex."

• 1:47:03Jocko Willink?

  The last part of the message had an ironic ring because for some of the task force, the whole thing had seemed like an exercise. So, "endex" is a term, we say it all the time in training. When you want to stop the exercise, you say "endex", it's short for "end exercise." So, that's one of those things where it seemed like for some of the guys, they were just on this big exercise. And so they literally said, "Hey, it's endex, end of the exercise right now." Mick and I looked at each other. "Bollocks", I said. We stood up to see the remains of three pair of coming off Longden in their red berets.

• 1:47:40Jocko Willink?

  Joy washed through my body. Mick and I hugged each other. Nothing more was said. The message had reached everyone. I slipped off my helmet and put on my beret, which had stayed close to hand throughout.

• 1:47:56Jocko Willink?

  As I stood looking down at Moody Brook, the red berets stuck out like sore thumbs against the grass.

• 1:48:04Jocko Willink?

  I felt proud. The beret on my head meant more than any task the army had ever thrown at me.

• 1:48:13Jocko Willink?

  It meant victory.

• 1:48:16Jocko Willink?

  The feeling is indescribable.

• 1:48:26Jocko Willink?

  Now, that's that, and they spend, obviously it's over, but it's not like you just get to step and it's instantly over. They spend time there. They go through some pretty significant looting, and he talks about that a bunch, and he kind of comes to, he goes kind of berserk in looting, and they're all just gathering up war trophies and whatever they can find of value, and they go into this one, sort of a bunkered position to loot, and they, on one side of the bunker, it's all a bunch of weapons, and the other side is other, kind of more personal type items, and they have so many weapons that they don't need anymore, so they go and they start taking

• 1:49:10Jocko Willink?

  stuff from the other side, little, like I said, personal items, I think it was, and they walk out of there, and then the next day, they find out that the side with the weapons on it was all booby-trapped, with seventy pounds of explosive. So, they went in there, if they would have picked up like two or three things off of that, it was a pressure plate, a pressure release, so if they would have picked up two or three things, they would have gotten killed. Him and his crew would have gotten killed, and that's when he realizes, you know, when he talks about, he's like, "I was so greedy, I wasn't even thinking anymore." They go through that, they eventually, they get done, they ship away and eventually end up to an island, and then from a different island, they fly back

• 1:49:53Jocko Willink?

  to, back to England. And here we're going back to the book. "We stepped off the plane at RAF Bris Norton. The next morning, we were hit by the English summer in full blaze. As we entered the airport lounge, the doors were slung open to a screaming crowd of relatives who charged towards us. My mother climbed over chairs to hug me with all the rest of my family in close pursuit. My wife came up to me. I was tense and made unsure by all the noise and shouting. It made me scared in a peculiar way." Karen looked hard and almost angry. Hello Vince was all I got from her. So, he's home.

• 1:50:39Jocko Willink?

  Obviously, his wife was a little bit tense about some things. Back to the book. Actually, before we go back to the key, they do a little quick greeting with their family, but then they get back on a bus with the rest of the the people, the battalion members. And they start driving back to their compound. Back to the book, always very quiet on the journey. The English countryside made me feel like an alien. Johnny tapped my shoulder from behind. Vince, the trees, man, look at them. I looked at the trees. They were part of what was making me feel like an alien.

• 1:51:15Jocko Willink?

  They were all in full bloom, bright green leaves in the wind. There was traffic on the roads, shops, people walking about, doing their own thing. It all seemed unreal. After only three months away, it was a shock to see civilization again.

• 1:51:31Jocko Willink?

  The odd thing was, I felt anger. Anger at everyone for doing their own thing. It was as if something in my head was urging me to shout at them as they walked along the streets. Hey you, licking your fucking ice creams. There's a fucking lot of injured guys over there.

• 1:51:51Jocko Willink?

  Friends have been killed, but all you're interested in is yourselves.

• 1:51:58Jocko Willink?

  Just frustration, I know. The general public was concerned, but it just didn't seem like it then.

• 1:52:07Jocko Willink?

  I wasn't expecting a medal or even a pat on the back. I really didn't know what to expect. Even so, I found it hard to be calm.

• 1:52:16Jocko Willink?

  There was no way I could relax. If I had been asked to go do a tour in Ireland, I would have gone. More than anything, I felt the pinch of no longer having my friends around me.

• 1:52:28Jocko Willink?

  We had been together so tightly over the last few months that it was as if now I had had a set, an arm severed. The buddy buddy system that we had needed to literally survive wasn't there anymore. And the sheltered life now seemed too far. It now seemed to me far too boring to endure.

• 1:52:51Jocko Willink?

  I made a point of not talking about my experiences to any member of my family, including my wife, but I do remember sitting up in bed one evening, turning my wife and giving her a very mild insight into what had really happened.

• 1:53:06Jocko Willink?

  I was sick to death of the press's views and of the publicity of a country still high on war.

• 1:53:14Jocko Willink?

  I told Karen what had happened to Denzel and Jones.

• 1:53:20Jocko Willink?

  The blank look she gave me with a half-smile told me she wasn't interested and couldn't understand me at all.

• 1:53:29Jocko Willink?

  I never said anything again.

• 1:53:33Jocko Willink?

  I tried to look at it from her point of view instead. She was sick of the war, of the army, and of me going away.

• 1:53:42Jocko Willink?

  Whenever I bumped into one of the lads, I seemed more at home and relaxed, talking our private language with him than I did with civvies and my own family.

• 1:53:54Jocko Willink?

  If I had had my own way, I would have gone out on the biggest bender ever.

• 1:54:00Jocko Willink?

  But I knew that was the easy way out.

• 1:54:10Jocko Willink?

  You know, these remind me of one soldier's war. You know, you come back and... There's no doubt, when you come back from war, you're gonna feel some of this. I'm gonna tell you right now, you're gonna feel some of this when you see civilians walking around licking their ice cream cones.

• 1:54:29Jocko Willink?

  It's gonna, it's gonna, it's a, it's a rough transition.

• 1:54:35Jocko Willink?

  Back to the book, there's no doubt that I was slowly unwinding over the long leave, but the boredom also gave me more time to think about my experiences.

• 1:54:46Jocko Willink?

  Worst of all were my nightmares about the war. At first, they came nightly. Later, they faded and returned intermittently.

• 1:54:56Jocko Willink?

  I always had the same dream of Denzel's smock and Jones's face passing before me.

• 1:55:04Jocko Willink?

  I would wake up in a bed so wet that a bucket of water might have been thrown over me.

• 1:55:11Jocko Willink?

  The nightmares lasted about six months or so. Today, I can see and understand everything that has happened to me. I know now that I wasn't alone. The most comforting words I ever had to help me did not come from any of my family. My family were concerned, but could never really understand what I was going through.

• 1:55:33Jocko Willink?

  Those words came from my friends in the pub as we drank during leave. Johnny turned to me and said, "Vince,

• 1:55:42Jocko Willink?

  I've had a few turns in the night, you know."

• 1:55:46Jocko Willink?

  That made me sit up and see clearly that I wasn't alone.

• 1:55:51Jocko Willink?

  And when you're not alone, you're stronger.

• 1:56:00Jocko Willink?

  So, that's something that I know I hear from a lot of vets.

• 1:56:09Jocko Willink?

  And maybe you're thinking that this is something you're experiencing that no one else is. Not true. Not only are other guys going through it, other guys have always gone through it.

• 1:56:23Jocko Willink?

  You're not alone. Back to the book, I fully believe that we as a nation performed the most excellent of tasks. I'm fully behind the decision to send the task force and I wouldn't hesitate to fight again for our country and its beliefs. People who whinge about the decisions taken in war they weren't involved in, to me, are the most misguided of all.

• 1:56:50Jocko Willink?

  The most striking events to affect me throughout the war were obviously the deaths of my friends.

• 1:56:58Jocko Willink?

  Eight years ago, I regarded those friends as those in two and three paras only.

• 1:57:04Jocko Willink?

  Now, after learning about others' experiences and after watching and reading others' accounts, I see that the whole task force was my friend.

• 1:57:14Jocko Willink?

  I watched a marine sergeant in a TV documentary, his eyes showing the emotion of his story, and the sight told me we were all the same.

• 1:57:31Jocko Willink?

  I still feel a bit angry that the wounded went unnoticed. A propaganda film on the task force's arrival home showed only the paras and the Marines and the Navy homecoming. Can you remember seeing the badly wounded coming through the gates?

• 1:57:49Jocko Willink?

  I think not.

• 1:57:52Jocko Willink?

  Nobody wants to see the effects of carnage.

• 1:57:59Jocko Willink?

  Never again will I think that war is just a game.

• 1:58:04Jocko Willink?

  Like they show it on TV, it is very different from how it is portrayed in books and films.

• 1:58:11Jocko Willink?

  We con ourselves into the killing game, don't we?

• 1:58:16Jocko Willink?

  I remember very clearly watching from a window of my quarters five or six kids playing a war game. Some were even dressed in combat gear and carrying small toy machine guns. I watched with interest in their tactics in attacking a cardboard box that was meant to be an enemy-held position.

• 1:58:36Jocko Willink?

  The two kids defending rolled over and pretended to die when overrun by the goodies. After being tigged by their friends, they got up to resume the game.

• 1:58:50Jocko Willink?

  From knee-high, we start to practice what is in human nature: to defend and kill.

• 1:58:59Jocko Willink?

  The one big difference between their game and the real one

• 1:59:04Jocko Willink?

  is that you don't get up after really being shot.

• 1:59:09Jocko Willink?

  War is the legal killing of people and can be very scary.

• 1:59:15Jocko Willink?

  War is kill or be killed.

• 1:59:21Jocko Willink?

  We also must remember that a lot of the command structure at junior rank level can almost be too difficult to maintain in the heat of battle.

• 1:59:32Jocko Willink?

  Then, what becomes a winning factor is the determination of the private soldier.

• 1:59:39Jocko Willink?

  His lone "get up and go and do" attitude.

• 1:59:46Jocko Willink?

  We must take our hats off to the junior ranks of all services for they are the backbone of the war machine in that they have to kill at close range.

• 1:59:58Jocko Willink?

  We are lucky to have what is perhaps one of the best fighting forces in the world thanks to our system of training and to our discipline.

• 2:00:09Jocko Willink?

  Even today, I feel frustration about the war.

• 2:00:13Jocko Willink?

  I was so psyched up to carry on with the fight in the Stanley that the Argentinian surrender made me disappointed as well as happy.

• 2:00:22Jocko Willink?

  I try very hard to keep out of fistfights now.

• 2:00:27Jocko Willink?

  As I wouldn't like to lose my self-control.

• 2:00:31Jocko Willink?

  Am I alone in feeling this? Or are there hundreds or thousands of other time bombs out there?

• 2:00:43Jocko Willink?

  Other experienced veterans may be sympathetic to all I've said.

• 2:00:49Jocko Willink?

  We can only wait for the next war now to practice the art of killing again.

• 2:00:55Jocko Willink?

  I hope I'm there to help.

• 2:00:59Jocko Willink?

  Finally, I must quote a First World War veteran who told me so many years before I joined the Army. "You'll like the Army, Vince. But not war.

• 2:01:14Jocko Willink?

  It's horrible, boy."

• 2:01:17Jocko Willink?

  He was right.

• 2:01:20Jocko Willink?

  I didn't like it.

• 2:01:24Jocko Willink?

  Then again...

• 2:01:27Jocko Willink?

  I did.

• 2:01:34Jocko Willink?

  And

• 2:01:37Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna close this book out

• 2:01:41Jocko Willink?

  with the beginning of this book.

• 2:01:47Jocko Willink?

  And it reads

• 2:01:53Jocko Willink?

  "This book is dedicated to the soldiers of Three Para, whose comradeship and determination throughout the campaign make the author proud to have served with them.

• 2:02:08Jocko Willink?

  So that the members of Three Para who never returned are not forgotten, their names and ages at death in action are listed below."

• 2:02:20Jocko Willink?

  Private Richard Absalon, Military Medal, 19 years old.

• 2:02:29Jocko Willink?

  Private Gerald Bull, 18.

• 2:02:33Jocko Willink?

  Private Jason Burt, 17.

• 2:02:38Jocko Willink?

  Private John Crowe, 21.

• 2:02:43Jocko Willink?

  Private Mark Dodsworth, 24.

• 2:02:48Jocko Willink?

  Private Anthony Greenwood, 22.

• 2:02:54Jocko Willink?

  Private Neil Groves, 18.

• 2:03:00Jocko Willink?

  Private Peter Hedeker, 22.

• 2:03:07Jocko Willink?

  Lance Corporal Peter Higgs, 23.

• 2:03:13Jocko Willink?

  Corporal Stephen Hope, 27.

• 2:03:19Jocko Willink?

  Private Timothy Jenkins, 19.

• 2:03:25Jocko Willink?

  Private Craig Jones, 20.

• 2:03:30Jocko Willink?

  Private Stuart Lang, 20.

• 2:03:36Jocko Willink?

  Lance Corporal Christopher Lovett, 24.

• 2:03:42Jocko Willink?

  Corporal Keith McCarthy, 27.

• 2:03:49Jocko Willink?

  Sergeant Ian McKay, Victoria Cross, 29.

• 2:03:57Jocko Willink?

  Corporal Stuart McCoughlin, 27.

• 2:04:04Jocko Willink?

  Lance Corporal James Murdock, 25.

• 2:04:10Jocko Willink?

  Lance Corporal David Scott, 24.

• 2:04:15Jocko Willink?

  Private Ian Scrivens, 17.

• 2:04:22Jocko Willink?

  Corporal Alex Shaw, 25.

• 2:04:29Jocko Willink?

  Private Philip West, 19.

• 2:04:47Jocko Willink?

  And...

• 2:04:53Jocko Willink?

  You notice those names?

• 2:04:58Jocko Willink?

  Those men, their ages...

• 2:05:04Jocko Willink?

  And their ranks, they're all, they're all junior ranks. The one Sergeant, Sergeant Ian McKay,

• 2:05:14Jocko Willink?

  who was awarded the Victoria Cross for storming a 50 caliber machine gun position. But the rest of those men are privates and Lance Corporals and Corporals.

• 2:05:32Jocko Willink?

  Young men.

• 2:05:36Jocko Willink?

  And...

• 2:05:39Jocko Willink?

  As Kipling pointed out,

• 2:05:44Jocko Willink?

  they're no plaster saints by any stretch.

• 2:05:51Jocko Willink?

  But damn.

• 2:06:04Jocko Willink?

  They might not be saints.

• 2:06:12Jocko Willink?

  But I've known men like these.

• 2:06:19Jocko Willink?

  And I've seen them with my eyes.

• 2:06:27Jocko Willink?

  And as I have said.

• 2:06:32Jocko Willink?

  And as this tale of the Falklands confirms once again.

• 2:06:40Jocko Willink?

  War is hell. And it's a hell that can bring out the worst in men.

• 2:06:49Jocko Willink?

  But it can also bring out the best.

• 2:06:58Jocko Willink?

  And don't forget these young men.

• 2:07:02Jocko Willink?

  Who.

• 2:07:05Jocko Willink?

  Like so many others.

• 2:07:10Jocko Willink?

  Answered the call.

• 2:07:14Jocko Willink?

  And fought. And died in that awful place to protect their brothers.

• 2:07:28Jocko Willink?

  And furthermore, and if you read this book, you will realize that we all have a little bit more to give.

• 2:07:40Jocko Willink?

  Mentally and physically, you can go further, you can push harder. You can be more ruthless if you have to be, and you can also show more mercy.

• 2:08:00Jocko Willink?

  You can be better.

• 2:08:03Jocko Willink?

  I can be better, we can all be better. And we most often get better, not from the easy things and not from the good times, but from the hard times and the challenges and the suffering in life that pushes you to your breaking point.

• 2:08:26Jocko Willink?

  And demands that you give absolutely everything you have.

• 2:08:38Jocko Willink?

  But you have to keep going.

• 2:08:44Jocko Willink?

  So...

• 2:08:48Jocko Willink?

  No matter what.

• 2:08:53Jocko Willink?

  Keep going.

• 2:09:01Jocko Willink?

  And I think that's...

• 2:09:04Jocko Willink?

  All that I've got for tonight.

• 2:09:15Jocko Willink?

  It's a rough one.

• 2:09:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:19Speaker 01

  It's crazy how, um...

• 2:09:22Speaker 01

  How it got that crazy, that vicious in like that short period of time.

• 2:09:28Jocko Willink?

  It is, and it, and we, we gotta remember that that's what, we have one perspective from one squad, in one platoon. And there was, you know, the story of two pair. The one where the battalion commander?

• 2:09:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:45Jocko Willink?

  H. Jones won the Victoria Cross, by the way.

• 2:09:50Jocko Willink?

  What about that? Wha- what about that story?

• 2:09:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:54Jocko Willink?

  And not to mention the Royal Marines that were down there as well. What about their stories?

• 2:09:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:59Jocko Willink?

  A- and that's the thing that just, it's, I still can't wrap my head around the amount of untold stories that there are. And not just, not just the fact of the stories. But to think that these, because this is, this battle was a very short time compared to Vietnam, or World War II, or World War I, or even the wars that we've been fighting today that have been going on for years and years and years.

• 2:10:30Jocko Willink?

  But it's, it's not so much that the story that, that, that like, we're missing the story. But these people existed everywhere.

• 2:10:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:10:37Jocko Willink?

  And they exist everywhere. And, and

• 2:10:46Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's, it's it's incredible to take a look at the book, buy the book, and read it. And it's, I actually

• 2:10:57Jocko Willink?

  I got into some of the graphic stuff, some of the, some of the interaction to them when they're not in combat is actually, it's real crude. And I didn't, you know, I didn't cover much of it, not that, you know, I wanted to get to more of the combat concentration, that's kind of, I didn't realize that I had, I didn't cover as much as sort of just the straight up crude behavior that they, that they, I mean, they're on the boat for a while, they're drinking, they're getting drunk when they're coming home, it's, there's some, there's some some crude behavior and, and things that are taking place. Uh, and that's kind of why I, I jumped on the opportunity to read Tommy by, by Kipling, because that's totally true. Then you know what they say in it kind of, our way of saying that

• 2:11:43Jocko Willink?

  in the SEAL teams, we, we'd say this, that guy's a, in case of war, break glass kind of guy.

• 2:11:49Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:11:50Jocko Willink?

  Meaning, we don't want him around all the time, we want to keep him over here on the side.

• 2:11:53Speaker 01

  In the glass.

• 2:11:54Jocko Willink?

  But, but yeah, if something happens, yeah, break glass and we'll get this, this frogman out. Now, what's jacked up about that is that's, that played more of a role when I was first in the SEAL teams and the more the older I got, the more mature I got, the more I realized like that's, that's okay, but it doesn't really work. What you need is to have someone that you can have out of the glass.

• 2:12:21Jocko Willink?

  And that learns and what you have to do as a leader is you take those guys that, instead of putting those guys in a glass jar or behind, in a glass box somewhere and keep them there in case of war, what you do is you do what you do with a freaking wild dog. You have to train them, you have to bring them out, you have to socialize them amongst the humans. So that they can, so that they can interact. Because a guy that you have to keep in, you know, in behind a glass barrier from the rest of the world. The chances of you needing him for that type of situation are pretty minimal. So what about all the other situations that he'd be beneficial for? So what you have to do as a leader is teach those guys that have the attitude of, you know, I'm just, I'm just a nothing but a straight warrior.

• 2:13:06Jocko Willink?

  Don't care about anything else. I'm here to go to war. Otherwise, leave me alone. What you want to do is you want to get those guys out into the world, socialize them like a good attack dog that that's not going to bite anything in front of it. It's going to actually bite what you want it to bite. And then you have something that's a much more valuable, not only for you as a leader, but for them. Cause they have a much better opportunity. So there's still a few guys left in the old mold of in case of war, break glass, but most of the guys now are, are actually more versatile than that. And I'll tell you, when I was young, I was probably fallen in that category. I wasn't exactly the guy you wanted to, uh,

• 2:13:48Jocko Willink?

  throw out in front of the admiral to look at, right? And say, oh, this is our model guy right here. It's, you know, it wouldn't have been that way. Now, as the older I got, the more I recognized how important having that, both sides of the, of the coin covered. And you couldn't just be a freaking rampaging berserker all the time. You had to actually be a professional. You had to be a professional. And so I definitely had my share of time spent in that zone. Back in the day, but what's good is I think guys knew that about me. And that therefore, when I came up to him and said, hey, man, look, we gotta, we gotta do better than that. Or hey, we, we can't be acting like that.

• 2:14:31Jocko Willink?

  They knew that I wasn't coming to them from a, from a, uh, what's that word? From the ivory tower. I wasn't looking down on them like, oh, I can't believe you'd act that way. We don't act that way. We're naval representatives. I wasn't coming to it like that. I was coming to him, hey, we're professionals. We gotta get, we wanna get hired to do jobs. We wanna kill bad guys. We gotta get missions. We gotta get mission approval. Those were the things that, that, you know, I kinda passed on to, to my guys. Was hey, that's cool. Be a frogman, but be a disciplined frogman. Be a frogman that can represent. And I think that's another thing in the book when there's no war going on.

• 2:15:14Jocko Willink?

  How are they, you know, they're, they're, they're kinda maniacs, you know? Yeah. And, and then when the war breaks out, they go even more maniac style. And it's almost like they get into that mode of like, oh, who cares anyways? We're gonna die. We're, we're gonna die. We just, you know, who cares? But after you go to war for an extended period of time, you're like, actually, you're not gonna die. Actually, there's a decent chance you're gonna live. And there's a decent chance that you need to continue to build, you know, the, the reputation of the SEAL teams. Not just as we're killers, but we're professionals. Yeah. So, and we should have a reputation of both. And we do, by the way. Think so.

• 2:15:58Jocko Willink?

  Professional killers is right.

• 2:16:03Jocko Willink?

  But yeah, it's a great book. There's a lot to learn from it. There's a lot to learn, again, I, that, that, the way that they're going from peacetime. And again, I know that they were doing tours in Ireland at the time, and that was no joke. And they took casualties in Ireland and there was many soldiers killed in Northern Ireland. But that wasn't comparable to what they went through in the Falklands. So it was interesting to see how they handled approaching combat for the first time.

• 2:16:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, another part that I think these books really bring to light is just the physical conditions that that they go into. Even talking talking to you guys when you guys talk about how hot it is and every once in a while you'll add a detail like, oh yeah, so I'm like, you know, all my clothes are all wet from my sweat. And usually that's not part of the movie when you watch the movie, you know, or like these guys, his feet are falling off, you know, because it's cold and numb.

• 2:16:55Jocko Willink?

  I was sitting in a combat outpost in Ramadi, and it was nighttime, right? The coolest part of the day. And I I wasn't doing anything. And I hadn't been doing anything in a while. I was literally sitting in a combat outpost, you know, the the boys were out in an overwatch position and I was back there. I'd been coordinating, but I did it. It wasn't that it wasn't that established of a combat outpost yet. So I still had all my gear on. But I was just sitting there. I'd been sitting there for, let's call it two, three, four hours. And I was sitting there and I I just kind of put my I was sitting down and I angled my back to like a 45 degree angle. I was kind of looking at the ground, kind of resting a little bit. And as I looked down, I was full athletic sweat dripping off me like that fast. And I wasn't doing anything.

• 2:17:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's just that's the bait. That's where you start with.

• 2:17:43Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's where you start.

• 2:17:44Speaker 01

  Not to mention the guy's legs getting blown off, all this stuff, all these. Yeah, man. Yeah, it's crazy.

• 2:17:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's um, the physical and the other big thing is the physical conditioning that you need to be prepared for is is humping with a rucksack on.

• 2:18:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:02Jocko Willink?

  That's a big deal. That you know that you know, they don't show a lot of that?

• 2:18:05Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:18:05Jocko Willink?

  In any kind of military training, they don't just show it. They don't show it enough. They should. They should. I mean, we just did another trip up to Yosemite and we got our boots, boots, boots, boots on.

• 2:18:16Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:18:17Jocko Willink?

  And it's, it's, if you're not conditioned for that, it's gonna be hard. And you can make it through a day.

• 2:18:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:25Jocko Willink?

  Maybe you can make it through two days. But also, you're not carrying, I was telling my my kids up there, up in the mountains. You're not carrying any weight compared to what you carry with uh when you have gear. When you have the, when you go tactical.

• 2:18:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:40Jocko Willink?

  You don't have, you probably have thirty pounds maybe. If you're just, if you're just camping or whatever, you got a couple, you got a couple liters of water. You got a sleeping bag and a ground pad. You got some trail mix, maybe a little bit more food, but you're talking thirty, forty pounds. Tops.

• 2:18:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:58Jocko Willink?

  You get geared up. Bro, I would weigh guys before we'd send them out on training operations, I'd weigh them. Training operations. They, their, their rocks would weigh like a hundred and ten pounds. Your gear alone, your, your body armor, helmet, uh, what ammo, magazines, you know, magazines and ammo. Grenades, you're, you're sixty, seventy pounds, then you put water in it. You're talking, I think, I think I weighed like three ten or something with my gear on. Seriously.

• 2:19:32Speaker 01

  Like Robocop.

• 2:19:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:33Speaker 01

  You know, Robocop's so heavy on, on Rogue, I think it was part two, where he shocks himself because he wants to get rid of the messed up directives he got given. He falls down, right? He's unconscious and then they're like, hey, we gotta help him. They try to pick him up.

• 2:19:47Jocko Willink?

  Oh, he's too heavy to move.

• 2:19:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that, that actually happened to, uh, we were on a training exercise in TU Bruiser. And I got put down. They said, hey, Jocko, you're dead. So I laid down and I just laid there and Leif came over to throw me in the back of the Humvee. I was like Robocop down there. So Leif got a couple buddies and he's like, hey guys, help me move Jocko. Still not moving.

• 2:20:11Speaker 01

  Dead weight Jocko.

• 2:20:12Jocko Willink?

  They're like, okay, yep.

• 2:20:13Speaker 01

  You know, you were like making an extra effort to be dead weight.

• 2:20:16Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 2:20:17Speaker 01

  You know, like you're like, I know you do that.

• 2:20:18Jocko Willink?

  Fully participating in the training exercise. I wanted those guys to be prepared to put a grenade in my mouth and lead me there. So you get some.

• 2:20:30Jocko Willink?

  Awesome. Well, speaking of lots of stories.

• 2:20:34Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:20:35Jocko Willink?

  Um, maybe you could tell some stories about how to support this podcast.

• 2:20:39Speaker 01

  Sure, I'd be happy to.

• 2:20:40Jocko Willink?

  No, no, short stories.

• 2:20:43Speaker 01

  Hey, hey, did, did you get into drinking pomegranate white tea? And subsequently Jocko white tea because your wife is a Brit?

• 2:20:51Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 2:20:52Speaker 01

  And she's into tea? She turned you on to tea?

• 2:20:54Jocko Willink?

  She didn't really, because they drink tea with milk and I don't.

• 2:20:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you know, hey.

• 2:20:59Jocko Willink?

  You can give her credit, but she doesn't get credit for that one.

• 2:21:02Speaker 01

  Does she drink a lot of tea too?

• 2:21:03Jocko Willink?

  She drinks tea, yeah. She, tea drinker.

• 2:21:05Speaker 01

  Put the kettle on.

• 2:21:06Jocko Willink?

  She says, she says a couple of tea, a couple of tea will cure anything, she says. A couple of tea.

• 2:21:10Speaker 01

  Who's the guy who said Robitussin cured everything? He's the same thing like that.

• 2:21:14Jocko Willink?

  I don't know who that was.

• 2:21:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it's like, I don't know, Chris Rock.

• 2:21:17Jocko Willink?

  I don't remember specifically where I got the first cup of Jocko white tea from. But I do remember that it was in the desert when I was, I was at the training command and I was, would be giving the debriefs or sitting through the guys' briefs. And we'd be going on like two, three, four hours of sleep. So you needed a little bit of kick. And somebody, somewhere I got some, some tea.

• 2:21:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:40Jocko Willink?

  It wasn't yet Jocko white tea.

• 2:21:42Speaker 01

  It was just pome- regular pomegranate white tea.

• 2:21:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and, yeah, that's where I, and I drank it, I was like, hmm.

• 2:21:48Speaker 01

  Ooh, this is nice.

• 2:21:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, this is nice.

• 2:21:50Speaker 01

  The cold one. Wait, was it cold?

• 2:21:52Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, well, definitely had it cold because you're in the desert. You don't want to drink hot tea unless you're British.

• 2:21:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, counterproductive.

• 2:21:59Jocko Willink?

  They be drinking hot tea no matter what. They don't even drink iced tea. I don't really like hot tea that much.

• 2:22:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:05Jocko Willink?

  The, that whole island, they don't really like iced tea. Like, you can't go into a restaurant, all of a sudden, some iced tea, they look at you like you're weird.

• 2:22:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:22:12Jocko Willink?

  Which I've been looked at many times there.

• 2:22:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:22:14Jocko Willink?

  For being weird.

• 2:22:14Speaker 01

  Let's face it, you, you're kind of weird, bro, sorry. Anyway.

• 2:22:20Jocko Willink?

  What you got?

• 2:22:22Speaker 01

  If we want to support ourselves, first off, I'm going to talk about my little stories. Not short story, long one.

• 2:22:27Jocko Willink?

  No, please.

• 2:22:28Speaker 01

  Just kidding. Remember I told you I got into kettlebells?

• 2:22:30Jocko Willink?

  Compress.

• 2:22:30Speaker 01

  I got the Onnit kettlebells, right? So the first ones I got, get all the, the designer ones, they're cooler, in my opinion.

• 2:22:36Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:38Speaker 01

  I don't think I've ever, yeah, I used the regular ones before at other gyms. But anyway, I get the the cool ones.

• 2:22:45Jocko Willink?

  Right.

• 2:22:45Speaker 01

  The ones that someone takes a picture of me and I have them, I look like extra cool with the primal.

• 2:22:50Jocko Willink?

  You can see how different our thought patterns are.

• 2:22:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, you're here to win. I get it. And I can dig it fully. But I got the chimp ones. Those are what one pood.

• 2:23:01Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:23:01Speaker 01

  Whatever the sixteen killer. Went up to the werewolf. Just the other day, I ordered the gorilla.

• 2:23:10Jocko Willink?

  Hmm, what's that one?

• 2:23:11Speaker 01

  Seventy something pounds.

• 2:23:12Jocko Willink?

  Oh, good.

• 2:23:12Speaker 01

  For one. So I got a pair. I incorporate that in. I'm getting stronger, man. I'm getting good at the kettlebells.

• 2:23:17Jocko Willink?

  You're gonna need them eighty eights like I got.

• 2:23:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, wait, what is the one that that it's Bigfoot, right?

• 2:23:23Jocko Willink?

  I don't know what that is, but my the biggest kettlebells that I currently have.

• 2:23:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:27Jocko Willink?

  Are forty kilograms.

• 2:23:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's like, yeah.

• 2:23:30Jocko Willink?

  Eighty eight pounds.

• 2:23:31Speaker 01

  Well, it's ninety something because it's two point two pounds per kilogram.

• 2:23:36Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:23:37Speaker 01

  So it's like. We can do the math if you want, but nonetheless, that's heavy. Uh, I don't know. Hmm, I'm I don't know if I'm ready for that one, given my current. Exercise program with them. I guess you can do.

• 2:23:49Jocko Willink?

  Maybe we should start doing math exercises.

• 2:23:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe, or bring a calculator or whichever. Either way, that's the one I got. And so so look, yeah, I'm gonna recommend it. If you're into kettlebells, you wanna. You know, get your kettlebells on. Get the on it ones. They're cooler. That's my opinion. Anyway, a lot of cool stuff on there. I got a jump rope and stuff like that, too.

• 2:24:11Speaker 01

  You know what else I did?

• 2:24:14Speaker 01

  Hundred burpees in ten minutes.

• 2:24:16Jocko Willink?

  Oh, Brandon Pickworth, where you at?

• 2:24:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So you remember last time?

• 2:24:19Jocko Willink?

  Echo did it.

• 2:24:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did it.

• 2:24:20Jocko Willink?

  Brandon, just so you know, Echo is. Now he notoriously bad cardio.

• 2:24:26Speaker 01

  Nah, I'm not even.

• 2:24:27Jocko Willink?

  Not like that anymore. I'm giving you credit. I'm giving you credit. But still, we could use that as sort of a statement to say, if Echo could do it, come on, Brandon.

• 2:24:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, actually, I think the statement is look how far Echo has come.

• 2:24:39Jocko Willink?

  Look how far.

• 2:24:40Speaker 01

  I think that's the statement.

• 2:24:42Jocko Willink?

  We'll make, I just made it.

• 2:24:43Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 2:24:44Jocko Willink?

  Look how far Echo has come. That he can do a hundred burpees. A lot of people think a hundred burpees in 10 minutes is a joke, actually.

• 2:24:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I could, I could dig it. I mean, I've been doing burpees for, for a while, not that kind, you know, not the kind. My, they're just in my routine. I don't do that many, but I'm familiar with them. So I'm like, okay, you can, you know how you can kind of gauge like, okay, I do this many. So what would a hundred take out of me? You know, can I do that?

• 2:25:05Jocko Willink?

  Forty, thirty, twenty, ten.

• 2:25:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, so how I, how I did it was twenty-five, one minute rest, twenty-five, one minute rest, twenty-five, one minute rest, fifteen, and then like a two minute, minute and a half, maybe. I don't know, something like that, give or take, and then a ten. And actually, sorry, eleven. I did a hundred and one burpees and it was nine minutes flat.

• 2:25:30Jocko Willink?

  That's good.

• 2:25:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:32Jocko Willink?

  Brandon, what you got?

• 2:25:33Speaker 01

  Here's what I found. Here, I don't know if my cardio is good or bad, it's better than it has been.

• 2:25:38Jocko Willink?

  It's better than it has been, yeah.

• 2:25:39Speaker 01

  Just in general, even jujitsu and other stuff.

• 2:25:43Jocko Willink?

  What's the other stuff all of a sudden?

• 2:25:44Speaker 01

  You know, I'm, you know, when you run and I don't know, you know, get nuts. Yeah, whatever. Hey, life, man, sometimes life throws physical challenges at you. Either way. So, yeah, I did one-on-one in nine minutes flat. Um, what it was, was I wasn't breathing as hard as maybe you might think. Like, that, that wasn't the, the, the issue, wasn't the breathing, was like just boom, push up and squat and push up and jump. And put the lactic acid.

• 2:26:10Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where'd you feel it, legs?

• 2:26:13Speaker 01

  Weird, yeah, legs, fully, shoulders, not chest, like, I think, you know, doing a push-up, one every, you know, second, isn't that much for me. But strangely, my shoulders and this part, the, like, what do you call these, the sarats? They're like sore the next day, in a weird way. It was weird, man. Nonetheless, yeah.

• 2:26:32Jocko Willink?

  That proves that burpees are a good exercise.

• 2:26:34Speaker 01

  Yes, fully.

• 2:26:34Jocko Willink?

  Got you some funky, uh, workout there.

• 2:26:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's good. And then so I go on YouTube, I see this one, a guy does a hundred in a row. I'm like, dang, because twenty-five was, I didn't know, I was gonna be like, hey, I'm gonna do as many as I can.

• 2:26:47Jocko Willink?

  How long did it take him to do a hundred in a row?

• 2:26:49Speaker 01

  Uh, three minutes and thirty-three seconds, if I'm not mistaken.

• 2:26:53Jocko Willink?

  That's credit.

• 2:26:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know what, here's the thing, though, here's the thing.

• 2:26:58Speaker 01

  I think it's a thing. I don't know if it's a thing or not. That's why I'm asking the question. Okay, so what really is a burpee? I mean, as far as like, okay, so when I first started doing burpees, I wouldn't do-

• 2:27:06Jocko Willink?

  A burpee is you, your chest touches the ground, then you jump up in the air.

• 2:27:09Speaker 01

  Okay, so what about my hands? Do they have to go above my head?

• 2:27:12Jocko Willink?

  Yes, technically, yes. Technically, it's a little clap over the head.

• 2:27:15Speaker 01

  Oh, a clap? So what do you mean over the head? Like technically it has to be above the head? So if I go like this, or does it have to be, because I see guys doing this.

• 2:27:22Jocko Willink?

  I do a little bit of everything, and depending how tired I am. If you see when I'm really tired, my clap is barely happening, and it's happening like six inches in front of my belly.

• 2:27:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, okay, so.

• 2:27:33Jocko Willink?

  But if you wanna be like, technical. I mean, a really technical, perfect burpee would be like both hands clapping up above your head as you're six inches in the air. You can't do too many of those, well, you can't do as many of those, though.

• 2:27:46Speaker 01

  No, not at all, and that's kind of the point.

• 2:27:47Jocko Willink?

  The difference between the dynamic jump, like a high jump, and not a dynamic jump is real big.

• 2:27:54Speaker 01

  Huge.

• 2:27:55Jocko Willink?

  Huge.

• 2:27:55Speaker 01

  And so where's the line? So, um-

• 2:27:58Jocko Willink?

  For me, here's the line. Get your hands above your head, get your feet off the ground.

• 2:28:02Speaker 01

  That's it, right?

• 2:28:03Jocko Willink?

  I think that's-

• 2:28:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I dig it. I agree, because otherwise you're like, hey, you didn't jump, uh, three inches. But what if, you know?

• 2:28:10Jocko Willink?

  Because if you wanna do that, what you do is you put your, your, you put your 135 on the ground, a barbell with 135 on it, and you hop over that thing each time. Chest to the ground on one side, chest to the ground on the other side, chest to the ground, that's another way. If you're gonna require, I like it when you can't cheat. But you can't cheat that, right? You have to jump over it.

• 2:28:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 2:28:30Jocko Willink?

  That's what's cool about, like, burpee pull-ups. You gotta get chest to the ground. I don't care how you do it. Chest to the ground and, and get your chin over the bar. I don't care what you do in between those two. That's a burpee pull-up pretty much.

• 2:28:43Speaker 01

  Alright, well, then I have to be honest, then. Here's my disclaimer. The push-up, eh, I didn't touch, touch my chest to the ground. You need, like, any of them.

• 2:28:52Jocko Willink?

  I mean, was it like, was it like an incomplete?

• 2:28:56Speaker 01

  Probably some of them were like a half.

• 2:28:58Jocko Willink?

  I mean, I guess, I don't do, I'm not like every single time. Yeah.

• 2:29:04Speaker 01

  Here's the thing, it's to your discretion, right? It's like, it's like, you know when you didn't do a burpee.

• 2:29:09Jocko Willink?

  Let's face it, if we wanted to, you know, get some Guinness Book of World's Record scenario, then sure.

• 2:29:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29:15Jocko Willink?

  But we, we, I think you're right. You know what a burpee is?

• 2:29:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29:19Jocko Willink?

  I know what a burpee is.

• 2:29:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29:20Jocko Willink?

  Get it right.

• 2:29:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, so mine and just to kinda, in the spirit of honesty, so I didn't touch my chest.

• 2:29:26Jocko Willink?

  Because here's the thing. If I was to, if, on the push-up part, if you touch your chest over every time, you actually slow down enough that it's not hitting your cardio as much.

• 2:29:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29:37Jocko Willink?

  In my opinion.

• 2:29:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe. I mean, I guess add it up. Yeah, I guess, and you know what I saw though? When I saw the guy doing the burpees, he was on a, um, I think it was just a regular gym floor, maybe a mat or something? And he was doing it, and after a while, he starts banging his chest.

• 2:29:52Jocko Willink?

  Oh, he's cheating a little bit.

• 2:29:54Speaker 01

  So I'm like, oh, you're getting a bounce on the bench.

• 2:29:55Jocko Willink?

  A little bounce.

• 2:29:56Speaker 01

  Same thing, yeah, getting a little bounce. So I'm thinking, you know what, that could be easier. For me, if I did it on a mat, I think it'd be easier. Than having to stop your body weight and not touch, you know? But it's gonna be what you're used to for sure. But I didn't touch my chest, and there were like four of them that I didn't put, like four, because when I started the set, I'm like, oh shoot, those, you know, two or three, I didn't put my hands above my head, so I,

• 2:30:19Jocko Willink?

  Restart.

• 2:30:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, so maybe like four or five of them didn't technically count. But I feel like if I would've put my hands above my head on those four, it wouldn't have made a difference. That's what I think. But if I'm like, you know the kind where I'm filming at the muster, you know? I'm filming this girl, she's doing the perfect burpee while I'm filming her. Chest to the ground, in fact, when she went chest to ground, her hands came up off the ground.

• 2:30:42Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 2:30:42Speaker 01

  Just for like a second, I'm like, dang, this girl's getting the whole.

• 2:30:44Jocko Willink?

  What are they called? They call those, I think they call those game day push-ups. I don't know why, I don't, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I just call them that.

• 2:30:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:30:51Jocko Willink?

  Which is weird, because I don't even have a game day. Every day's game day.

• 2:30:54Speaker 01

  So that's why you call him that. Do that every day. But either way, she's doing that and then she's going into the and her hands are straight in the air. Like she's straight up putting effort into reaching.

• 2:31:05Jocko Willink?

  Was this in the San Diego cross, uh, San Diego muster?

• 2:31:07Speaker 01

  No, no, not Texas. I put, I put the clip in, in the video.

• 2:31:10Jocko Willink?

  Okay. I'll check it out.

• 2:31:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. And she had the perfect form.

• 2:31:13Jocko Willink?

  Full beast mode.

• 2:31:14Speaker 01

  Full on. And I'm thinking, when I see that compared to the hundred and one that I did, no, night and day, man. They're gonna be like, hey, he's not doing this whole part right here. My hands are going like this. They're going like this. So they're above my head.

• 2:31:26Jocko Willink?

  You know what? Maybe Brandon Pickworth is doing eight inch or 12 inch vertical leap on each one, like a beast. And we're calling him out and he's actually crushing us.

• 2:31:35Speaker 01

  Doing it the correct way.

• 2:31:37Jocko Willink?

  Sorry, Brandon, if that's the case. All right.

• 2:31:39Speaker 01

  Well, the goal is now hundred. I'm gonna follow the protocol. I know when I'm doing it. Yeah, like in a row, in a row.

• 2:31:45Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, that'd be, that'd be good.

• 2:31:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm gonna follow the protocol for sure. I'll, I'll, I'll report back. Anyway, back to the kettlebells. That's, that's a good one. The jump rope stuff, that's a good one. On, the on it ones, that's the cool ones, in my opinion. Just go on there, check it out. Go on it.com slash Jocko. Boom. Support yourself and the podcast. Also, good way to support when you buy these books, the Jocko Reviews. That I chime into every once in a while. Go to our, uh, the website, Jocko Podcast dot com.

• 2:32:15Jocko Willink?

  You chime in much today?

• 2:32:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, I was all listening.

• 2:32:17Jocko Willink?

  Kind of a heavy one.

• 2:32:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, heavy. And I have nothing. So you know what part I was gonna chime in?

• 2:32:22Jocko Willink?

  What?

• 2:32:25Jocko Willink?

  I respect your decision, but I respect your decision not to chime in.

• 2:32:29Speaker 01

  Got it. Well, you know how you're like, it was at the end anyway, where you were like, this is just one story.

• 2:32:34Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:32:34Speaker 01

  You know, you take, and it's a literally a sliver, really. It's a sliver. It's one guy in one story.

• 2:32:40Jocko Willink?

  It's one guy. There was four or 5,000 British servicemen down there.

• 2:32:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:45Jocko Willink?

  It's one, five, one, 4,000.

• 2:32:48Speaker 01

  So this, this was my comparison. You know, when you're driving in traffic or on the street, whatever, the freeway, and all you see is cars. Oh my God, infinite cars, traffic is everywhere, just cars and cars and cars. And that's nothing new. In fact, it's kinda irritating, really. But if you just take one little step like in your mind and and look in the car and look, that's a person in there.

• 2:33:10Jocko Willink?

  A person.

• 2:33:10Speaker 01

  And may sometimes two people in there, sometimes little, little family. Each one of those people has their whole life story, all the little ups and downs and special things and you know.

• 2:33:21Jocko Willink?

  Challenges, struggles.

• 2:33:23Speaker 01

  Challenges, struggles, triumphs, all that stuff. Each one of those little things, there's a little guy in there and and even then that's nobody compared to everybody. So that's the analogy I was gonna make, but seems kinda trivial, you know, compared to like guys on the freeway.

• 2:33:39Jocko Willink?

  I like how you're starting to self-police.

• 2:33:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I gotta self-police, man. Anyway, back to these books, if, yeah, if you, if you wanna get any of these books, one or more, whatever, they're listed by episode on the website, jockopodcast.com.

• 2:33:52Jocko Willink?

  And, and by the way, we started off today before we hit record, record, record.

• 2:33:57Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:33:57Jocko Willink?

  I said to echo, you know how you heard the, the, the, what's that saying? Don't judge a book by its cover? The cover of this book, you can judge it by, it's called Excursion to Hell by Lance Corporal Vincent Bramley, and the picture on the cover looks like hell. It looks like it's a picture of him, it's blown up real big, but yeah, you can judge a book by its cover, you can tell it's gonna be a rough story.

• 2:34:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, looks like he took a straight up excursion to hell on that cover. But if you want this book, go to jockopodcast.com, set a little tab on the top, you know, top menu, whatever, books from podcast, Jocko Podcast, books, whatever it's called. Boom, they're listed there by episode, click through there. Get it through there, good way to support yourself, of course, and, uh, and the podcast takes you to Amazon also.

• 2:34:46Jocko Willink?

  Or if you do other shopping.

• 2:34:47Speaker 01

  Any other shopping.

• 2:34:48Jocko Willink?

  Oh, that's a bonus.

• 2:34:49Speaker 01

  Bonus.

• 2:34:50Jocko Willink?

  What if you buy something massive?

• 2:34:52Speaker 01

  Good.

• 2:34:54Jocko Willink?

  That still supports, supports more.

• 2:34:56Speaker 01

  Big time, yeah, like what, like a, like a one hundred terabyte hard drive.

• 2:35:00Jocko Willink?

  How much does that cost?

• 2:35:01Speaker 01

  Like four to five grand.

• 2:35:02Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 2:35:03Speaker 01

  Not forty five grand, four to five, so like forty, depends which one you get. Or like a lawnmower, can you buy a lawnmower from Amazon?

• 2:35:09Jocko Willink?

  I think you can buy anything on Amazon.

• 2:35:10Speaker 01

  You can now, huh?

• 2:35:12Jocko Willink?

  Uh, yeah.

• 2:35:12Speaker 01

  What do they do? They, they come with a big forklift truck and be like.

• 2:35:16Jocko Willink?

  Lawnmowers aren't that big, dude.

• 2:35:17Speaker 01

  Well, no, no, no, I, oh, I'm sorry, I'm thinking driving lawnmower.

• 2:35:21Jocko Willink?

  Oh.

• 2:35:21Speaker 01

  So what do they do? They back it up, or is your lawnmower? I don't know, you probably can't.

• 2:35:26Jocko Willink?

  Maybe.

• 2:35:27Speaker 01

  Okay, treadmill. I know you can get a treadmill.

• 2:35:29Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, treadmills are pretty big.

• 2:35:31Speaker 01

  Well, either way, you can do your shopping, boom, click through there, takes like two seconds. Small action, really, big reaction by way of support.

• 2:35:39Jocko Willink?

  I, I actually have been thinking that that is actually not the best analogy that you've been using for like so long.

• 2:35:46Speaker 01

  You would think that, but you'd be wrong.

• 2:35:48Jocko Willink?

  I, I think a better, you ever heard of the, the expression death by a thousand cuts?

• 2:35:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:35:52Jocko Willink?

  It's more like that, even though it's life by a thousand.

• 2:35:56Speaker 01

  Clicks.

• 2:35:56Jocko Willink?

  Clicks.

• 2:35:57Speaker 01

  Sure, support by a thousand clicks.

• 2:35:59Jocko Willink?

  Something like that.

• 2:36:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, man, I dig it.

• 2:36:01Jocko Willink?

  Cause they all add up together.

• 2:36:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:36:03Jocko Willink?

  Cause the sodium's little, but it's big, but you have to join it with all the other ones.

• 2:36:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, so now you have a bunch of little sodiums, boom, huge reaction, huge support, widespread, huge support by this little action from this. You know what it is? Actually, the sodium's better, cause look, if I'm clicking through, I'm a listener, I'm listening to this podcast and I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna support, I'm gonna buy one of these books, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, buy lawnmowers, treadmill, whatever, I click through the website. Just that two seconds of going to the website first, clicking through, that's like so much potential in my click, just like the, the sodium. So much potential energy in there, especially when you mix it with the water, you mix it with the Amazon, the click, boom, support, you follow.

• 2:36:44Jocko Willink?

  We can move on.

• 2:36:45Speaker 01

  Fuck, yeah, there you go, see? Backs up my point, anyway.

• 2:36:49Jocko Willink?

  I apologize to everyone for egging that on in some manner.

• 2:36:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I respect your extreme ownership in the situation.

• 2:36:59Speaker 01

  Just know what you're gonna do to fix it next time. Or you could subs- subs- you could subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Stitcher and Google Play if you haven't already. I think it seems, well, I don't wanna say it seems obvious, but.

• 2:37:12Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, if you don't, you should.

• 2:37:13Speaker 01

  If you haven't, yeah, that's a good way to support. Yeah, cool. Stay updated, all that stuff. Also on YouTube, subscribe to that one. I've been putting some stuff.

• 2:37:22Jocko Willink?

  This is kinda weird to me, cuz we don't have that many YouTube subscribers.

• 2:37:29Speaker 01

  I forget, I mean, I looked, but.

• 2:37:31Jocko Willink?

  It's not a ton. It's not as many people as listen to the podcast.

• 2:37:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. But not a lot of people are like, on YouTube, you know?

• 2:37:38Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 2:37:38Speaker 01

  I'm gonna watch, you know, Jocko on YouTube.

• 2:37:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:42Speaker 01

  Like that, you're less compelled to do that, especially if you're not on YouTube just to begin with.

• 2:37:46Jocko Willink?

  What if you miss some of them deleted scenes?

• 2:37:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, that's something, but consider like if you never go on YouTube.

• 2:37:50Jocko Willink?

  I was working with a group this last week and they're full on caught up on the podcast, every single episode, legit dudes getting after it. And I mentioned the deleted scene that came out and they, there were three of them, none of them had seen it.

• 2:38:05Speaker 01

  Oh, see, there you go.

• 2:38:06Jocko Willink?

  None of them had seen it. And that's, that's a good scene. It's funny anyways.

• 2:38:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:38:10Jocko Willink?

  I know I use bad language, but.

• 2:38:14Speaker 01

  It's kinda refreshing, bro. You know how like you can cut loose, you're like, oh, Jocko's always on. You were off. No, you were on, you were in a different way.

• 2:38:22Jocko Willink?

  I was going off.

• 2:38:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:38:25Jocko Willink?

  So, subscribe to the YouTube channel.

• 2:38:28Speaker 01

  If you're on YouTube, or if you're, if you're thinking about getting on YouTube, go ahead, start there, subscribe. It can be your first subscription. And don't think that it's a good thing.

• 2:38:37Jocko Willink?

  How much is a subscription to?

• 2:38:38Speaker 01

  Nothing. One click.

• 2:38:39Jocko Willink?

  Oh, man, that's, that's a good deal.

• 2:38:41Speaker 01

  No money, just click, one click. And here's the thing, it's a total non-commitment situation. You can literally subscribe and 10 seconds later, you can unsubscribe. Then you can do that again, you can do that as many times as you want. It's like so easy. So it's really, that's a small action, big reaction situation. Another one. Also, Jocko has a store.

• 2:39:00Jocko Willink?

  See, that time I stayed quiet. Lord into your trap.

• 2:39:03Speaker 01

  Just moved on. Uh huh. But, um, actually back to the YouTube real quick.

• 2:39:10Speaker 01

  There's other stuff other than just the video version of the podcast. That's kind of the point.

• 2:39:12Jocko Willink?

  Okay, yeah.

• 2:39:13Speaker 01

  One of the points.

• 2:39:14Jocko Willink?

  There's other little videos that you put together. Excerpts, we like to call them.

• 2:39:18Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:39:18Jocko Willink?

  Some people call them McNuggets.

• 2:39:20Speaker 01

  Sure, Jocko McNuggets. Yeah, they're on there too. Anyway, Jocko has a store. It's called Jocko's Store. Jocko's store.com. There's some shirts on there. There's some travel mugs on there, some bumper stickers on there. I reap there. We were out of bumper stickers. I didn't know that. Anyway, we've got some more on there. There are some rash guards on there.

• 2:39:42Jocko Willink?

  Dope.

• 2:39:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. And there are some hats on there.

• 2:39:47Jocko Willink?

  Are they there?

• 2:39:49Speaker 01

  They should be.

• 2:39:50Jocko Willink?

  You said that last time.

• 2:39:51Speaker 01

  I know, bro. And I still have it, I think, a day. No, no, no, today, they should be on.

• 2:39:55Jocko Willink?

  You owe me nine hats, by the way.

• 2:39:57Speaker 01

  You got it.

• 2:39:58Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 2:39:59Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, so, yeah, there it is. And I'm not saying to support this podcast, buy our stuff. I'm not saying that. I'm saying, go on the website.

• 2:40:09Speaker 01

  Check out the stuff on there.

• 2:40:10Jocko Willink?

  Canadian yarn art. This stuff sells itself.

• 2:40:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:40:14Jocko Willink?

  See, now you're not getting my references.

• 2:40:16Speaker 01

  No. And, and I was born in Canada too, so that's kind, kind of off.

• 2:40:20Jocko Willink?

  But you're not a Tenacious D fan.

• 2:40:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. Hey, man, all good. Canadian, uh, yarn art. Oh, wait, we don't sell that.

• 2:40:28Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 2:40:28Speaker 01

  It sells itself.

• 2:40:29Jocko Willink?

  It sells itself.

• 2:40:30Speaker 01

  And so does this stuff.

• 2:40:31Jocko Willink?

  Maybe we should sell some Canadian yarn art.

• 2:40:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe. But yeah, go on there, check it out. If you like something, get something. Good way to support. Also, Psychological Warfare. What Psychological Warfare is, if you don't know, it is an album with tracks. Jocko tracks. And what he does is on the tracks, he's talking to you. Each track, and he's to each track, he's talking to you about different stuff. Weaknesses, different weaknesses.

• 2:40:57Jocko Willink?

  There you go.

• 2:40:57Speaker 01

  So really, this is what you need. This is the album.

• 2:40:59Jocko Willink?

  Different stuff doesn't cut it.

• 2:41:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, because Jocko was talking about you about the type of toothpaste that he uses.

• 2:41:04Speaker 01

  Right, right. No, I didn't say bust. Well, maybe.

• 2:41:08Jocko Willink?

  True.

• 2:41:09Speaker 01

  Depends. You know how there's a controversy about fluoride being in the toothpaste? You know? I'm just saying, if that's important.

• 2:41:14Jocko Willink?

  I'm really egging you on today.

• 2:41:16Speaker 01

  I'm just saying.

• 2:41:17Jocko Willink?

  I apologize, everyone.

• 2:41:17Speaker 01

  You brought it up, bro. Anyway, what it's really for, this album, is in your

• 2:41:24Speaker 01

  Campaign against weakness.

• 2:41:27Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:28Speaker 01

  Um, that's the new phrase. It's not journey anymore. It's campaign against. Yeah.

• 2:41:34Speaker 01

  Andy Goodbred.

• 2:41:37Speaker 01

  He gave me that one. Cause I don't like saying journey that much.

• 2:41:40Jocko Willink?

  Someone actually messaged you and said, hey, quit saying journey. Say campaign against weakness, which is actually from the podcast, which is legit.

• 2:41:48Speaker 01

  Layers. Big time. Anyway, thanks, Andy, for that one. But that's the one I'm using for right now. Until like a better one comes up, if that's even possible. So in your campaign against weakness, every single day for the rest of your life. Now that you're in the game right now is for the rest of your.

• 2:42:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the campaign lasts forever.

• 2:42:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's, there's no discharge.

• 2:42:05Jocko Willink?

  From the war?

• 2:42:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 2:42:07Jocko Willink?

  Dang, layers coming out big time.

• 2:42:10Speaker 01

  Anyway, so if you're trying to wake up, you know, early every day or, you know, five days a week, however long, you know, however much, and you got that day where you're supposed to wake up early and you don't want to, you just don't feel like it. That's really the thing. You don't feel like it, you know?

• 2:42:26Speaker 01

  So Jocko's there for, uh, for you with a little spot. Diet stuff, procrastination stuff, workout stuff, creativity stuff. That's a big one. And I don't listen to the creativity one.

• 2:42:37Jocko Willink?

  That's because you feel like you're all creative.

• 2:42:39Speaker 01

  No, but here's the thing. I'm like one of those thing, you know how like, you know how like, let's say you had a, like a pimple or something, a zit. I know I'm going deep, but if you have a zit, some people, they're like, I'm gonna pop the zit. Some people, they're like, no, leave it alone. Let it go away. You see what I'm saying? So I'm like the, I'm the latter when it comes to creativity. I'm like, man, I'm not creative. I'm at a creative block. Don't, don't force it. Don't like get Jocko on here telling me, pragmatically, by the way, but still.

• 2:43:08Jocko Willink?

  Get creative. Do it now. Think of a good idea.

• 2:43:12Speaker 01

  Thankfully, it's a little bit more than that, but. You know, that's kind of the philosophy. I'm not saying that's the best way. In fact,

• 2:43:18Jocko Willink?

  manufacturer insperado. You're missing another good tenacious D reference that I just made.

• 2:43:24Speaker 01

  But that's kind of the good thing about this is that that's not what it is. You know how like you'll explain, like, you know, part of it, and this is a total paraphrasing situation, but you said it in a really good way before when you're like, memorize the feeling after your workout or something like that. See, that's like, that's not, you're not inspiring me to go work out. You're kind of pragmatically telling me like, this is how you mentally wage an effective war on that little weakness there. That's what it is. Anyway, Trax doing this for all kinds of situations. It's called psychological warfare. Jocko Willink. That's a good one.

• 2:43:59Jocko Willink?

  Also, I have some other options now. If you want to kind of support this podcast, you can check out originmaine.com for your jujitsu needs. We are now unified fully with Origin. Made in America, like me. I would say like Echo, but Echo is actually made in Canada.

• 2:44:21Speaker 01

  No, I was technically made in America. I was just delivered.

• 2:44:25Jocko Willink?

  Made in America, like Echo and me.

• 2:44:28Speaker 01

  And delivered. Wait, I was delivered in Canada? Can they get stuff from Origin in Canada?

• 2:44:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:34Speaker 01

  Well, there it is. Boom. Just like me then.

• 2:44:35Jocko Willink?

  Okay. So there you go. Originmaine.com for your jujitsu needs and

• 2:44:43Jocko Willink?

  check them out. Also, if you want to check us out live, if you want to check out Origin live. Now, what kind of company is telling you, hey, come to our factory and see what we're all about? You know what kind of company? Our company. We're going to be up there in Farmington, Maine, August 23rd. Come on up. It's too late to enter into the Origin camp, the immersion camp. If you haven't signed up for that, you missed it. You'll have to do it next year. But on August 23rd, we're going to be up there. We'll be cruising, be hanging out. We'll be getting after it up at the factory. You can come and see what that's all about. Also, and I'll

• 2:45:24Jocko Willink?

  I'll just, I'll just put this out. I was kind of hesitating, but listen, we have some supplements coming for you. As soon as we, as soon as, as soon as I started with Pete, who is my partner at Origin, as soon as we kind of started talking, as soon as we, as soon as it looked like we were gonna solidify a deal, we started, we started, uh, he's got, he's got a little supplement line, which gives the opportunity, gave the opportunity, gives the opportunity for me to design the supplements. So, a little while back, we had that opportunity, designed them, made them, went on

• 2:46:04Jocko Willink?

  them, legit, and, uh, we got the formulas down, and we're gonna ramp up production now. So, in a little while, you're gonna see, you see the Jocko line of supplements coming out.

• 2:46:19Speaker 01

  Interesting, very interesting.

• 2:46:21Jocko Willink?

  So, Echo's had his little bit coming in, we're on them.

• 2:46:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:46:26Jocko Willink?

  And, uh, yeah, they're good to go. So, anyways, well, I'm gonna let, what I need to do, what we need to watch out for is the demand. So, what we're gonna do is we're gonna put them up, so you can order them. They won't be out until mid-September, but if you order them earlier, the order them, the better we can support you for supporting us.

• 2:46:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, kinda like the book situation.

• 2:46:51Jocko Willink?

  Yes, yes. Uh, so that's that. Also, Jocko White Tea, if you wanna support the podcast and support yourself, and if you wanna deadlift in the neighborhood of 8,000 pounds,

• 2:47:06Jocko Willink?

  you can get Jocko White Tea. If you don't wanna deadlift 8,000 pounds, that's cool, drink something else.

• 2:47:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:47:11Jocko Willink?

  Drink something else, that's, that's fine. If you wanna support your brain, we got books. If you wanna support your kid's brain, get him the, and the brain and their body and their life, get him away with Warrior Kid. I get, it's cool now, kids come up to me and I sign their books, they're all fired up, so they're changing.

• 2:47:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:47:30Jocko Willink?

  You will change, your kid will get on the path, no kidding.

• 2:47:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's good for the parent too, because you can reference that book in little situations, you know?

• 2:47:39Jocko Willink?

  It's legit.

• 2:47:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's good.

• 2:47:42Jocko Willink?

  Even my youngest daughter, her friends are reading it, and so they come over and they're like, They're excited, yeah. So that's cool, too. Uh, yeah, give it to your kids, whoever, your neighborhood's kids, whatever, give it to all the kids you know. So they can get stronger and faster and smarter and better, which is a really big thing to give a kid.

• 2:48:01Speaker 01

  Yes, everything pretty much.

• 2:48:03Jocko Willink?

  You know what I'm gonna give you? I'm gonna make you stronger, faster, stronger and better, smarter.

• 2:48:07Speaker 01

  Smarter.

• 2:48:07Jocko Willink?

  A human being. Is that a good thing to give someone? Yes, it is. So do it. Uh, also, if you want the first edition of Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, you gotta order it soon. And there's so many questions that I get asked all the time are in this book. They're answered in this book. Food intake, workouts, they're in there, a lot of them.

• 2:48:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:48:28Jocko Willink?

  They're in there. All, everyone that asks me about all different martial arts, where should I start? It's all in there.

• 2:48:35Jocko Willink?

  Sleep, what about sleep? It's in there. How do you wake up so early? It's in there. Rest and recovery, it's in there. All this stuff is in there. It's all in there. And there's a, a whole section of like what I'm thinking about on a daily basis. So, check that out.

• 2:48:52Speaker 01

  That's a big one. Well, like what you're thinking?

• 2:48:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, people wanna know what I'm thinking about.

• 2:48:55Speaker 01

  That's a big deal.

• 2:48:56Jocko Willink?

  For some reason, they ask me, like, what are you thinking here? I answer it. That's why I wrote that book.

• 2:49:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, like any situation where it's like you're faced with a decision to do this thing and it's hard, but you know it has to be done or should be done or whatever. And there's so many times where you just, when you shift or someone tells you something, hey, look at, look at it this way. And, you know, like my dad would always say, do it and it'll be done.

• 2:49:17Jocko Willink?

  Do it and be done.

• 2:49:17Speaker 01

  And it's a thing. All it took was really thinking a certain way compared to your, yeah, BC.

• 2:49:23Jocko Willink?

  BC says, do it and it's done.

• 2:49:25Speaker 01

  Be done, yeah, it's true.

• 2:49:26Jocko Willink?

  You get that book from Amazon, from Barnes and Noble. Whatever little bookstore is around you, go and tell them to get it. Or you can sit around and watch life pass you by. It's up to you.

• 2:49:39Jocko Willink?

  Also Extreme Ownership, it's still going strong. Why is Extreme Ownership still going strong? Is it because the massive advertising campaign that we put onto the, the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal? No, actually, we didn't do that. You know why it's going strong? Because of word of mouth. That's what it's going strong for. Because one person gets it, they buy it for this person, that person buys it for someone else, that person buys it for their team. That's why we're still selling that thing like crazy. Why? And why was it going through word of mouth? Because it works. Functionally works. It's not theoretical. It is pragmatic. It's functional. It'll make you a better leader and it'll make your team better. Period. We've seen this over and over and over again. That's why it's selling a lot. So get yourself and your team so you can implement that and you can win.

• 2:50:24Jocko Willink?

  Then for your business, if your business needs some leadership assistance or guidance or wants to improve and wants to go from doing well to doing awesome, Echelon Front, that's our leadership consulting. Me, Leif Babin, JP Denell, Dave Burke will come. Put your team into full attack mode. You can email [email protected]. Now, we have the muster coming. This is important. September 14th and 15th in San Diego. I think it's 70, maybe 75% sold out at this time. In fact, the hotel is sold out. So we've got rooms at another hotel. You'll get it when you register. It's a block or two away.

• 2:51:07Jocko Willink?

  So if you want to come, it's going to sell out, so register fast. You can do that at extremeownership.com. While you're waiting for the muster, or while you're waiting to see us up in Maine at the Origin Factory Grand Opening, where we make stuff in America. While you're waiting for that, if you want to link up with us and, and maybe just cruise a little bit, you can find us. We're actually on the interwebs. The Twitter.

• 2:51:38Jocko Willink?

  The Instagram. That Facebooky boha. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at Jocko Willink. I talked about the Snapchat last time. Didn't get around to it.

• 2:51:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, me neither.

• 2:51:51Jocko Willink?

  I'm going to.

• 2:51:52Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 2:51:53Jocko Willink?

  It's coming.

• 2:51:54Speaker 01

  Professed.

• 2:51:55Jocko Willink?

  And plus, I wasn't around my kids, so they have to instruct me.

• 2:51:59Speaker 01

  That's cool. That's good.

• 2:52:00Jocko Willink?

  I wasn't around, yeah, or Jade Charles, because maybe Jade Charles could instruct me.

• 2:52:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, he'll probably charge you for that, though, so he'll probably stick with the kids.

• 2:52:08Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, stick with the kids.

• 2:52:10Speaker 01

  Or not, whatever.

• 2:52:12Jocko Willink?

  And finally, eh, to all the servicemen and women around the world, from our military and from our proud allies. Thank you for going forward and protecting our way of life. To the firefighters and the police and to the other law enforcement and to EMTs and first responders. Thank you for protecting us here at home.

• 2:52:39Jocko Willink?

  And the rest of you that are out there listening that are facing challenges of your own, struggling with your own battles.

• 2:52:52Jocko Willink?

  Large and small, whatever those battles might be, fight hard.

• 2:52:59Jocko Willink?

  Keep going.

• 2:53:03Jocko Willink?

  And keep getting after it.

• 2:53:06Jocko Willink?

  So until next time. This is Echo and Jocko. Out.