226: The Code. The Evaluation. The Protocols. THE PATH. With Dave Berke

0:00:00 - Opening 0:13:13 - New Book: The Code. The Evaluation. The Protocols. 2:15:33 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 2:16:57 - How to stay on THE PATH. 2:34:16 - Closing Gratitude. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is Jocko Podcast number 226 with Echo Charles and me Jocko Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening. And also joining us tonight is Dave Berke. Good evening, Dave. Good evening. All right, so almost a year ago, almost a year ago, I put out a podcast. Podcast is number 174 and it was about the evaluation system that's used in the Marine Corps. I talked about the evaluation system that's used in the Navy and you might want to go and listen to Podcast 174 first before you continue listening to this podcast.

• 0:39Jocko Willink?

  But I wouldn't say it's mandatory, but in that, in that podcast, I told a story and it was about a guy that worked for me and he came to me because he didn't have the highest grades on the evaluation. The Navy evaluation system, the grades go from one to five, five being the best, one being the worst. And you know, he was like an average guy, you know, 3.3 or 3.6, something like that.

• 1:10Jocko Willink?

  But he thought he should have been better. And so he, he came to me, set up a meeting, you know, which was kind of weird because most people didn't set up meetings to see me. They would just come and see me, but he set up a meeting with the admin department to come see me and you know, thought he, he thought he should have been 5-0 in a lot of stuff. And so as I'm talking to him, I'm kind of thinking, how can I explain to this guy that he's not a 5-0? And so what I ended up doing was reading him some of the bullets that would, some of the bullet points that would make you a 5-0, how they describe a 5-0 sailor. Things like going to, going to the document here, professional knowledge, recognized expert sought out by all for technical knowledge.

• 1:55Jocko Willink?

  Uses knowledge to solve complex technical problems, meets PQS advancement requirements early and with distinction.

• 2:04Jocko Willink?

  Like, think about that. Recognized expert sought out by all. That means no one is above you in terms of expertise in your field. And I'm looking at this guy who, like I said, was a strong average. And as I said that to him, he realized that wasn't him. And then it was like, quality of work, needs no supervision, always produces exceptional work, no rework required maximizes resources. Now, think about these terms, always and exceptional. There's not too many people that, that's what you need to be to be in 5-0 category. Always produce exceptional work. That's not, hey, these four out of five projects

• 2:49Jocko Willink?

  were really good, were exceptional even. No, it's five for five. You know who is doing this? You know who does five for five like that? Not this guy.

• 3:00Jocko Willink?

  Military bearing and character. What does it take to be a 5.0 in military bearing and character? It takes exemplary personal experience, model of conduct on and off duty, leader in physical readiness, exemplifies Navy Corps values, honor, courage, and commitment.

• 3:23Jocko Willink?

  Let's just face it, when it comes to the word honor, there's, you're throwing that out there and you're saying, hey, I'm the maximum grade in honor. That's a bold statement. And not too many people are running around making that statement. And then there's the leadership bullet. To be a 5.0 in leadership in the Navy, you have to, you have to achieve the following. Inspiring motivator and trainer, subordinates reach highest level of growth and development, superb organizer, great foresight, develops process improvements and efficiencies, leadership achievements dramatically further command, mission, and vision, perseveres through the toughest challenges and inspires others, exceptional communicator,

• 4:07Jocko Willink?

  makes subordinates safety conscious, maintains top safety record, constantly improves the personal and professional lives of others.

• 4:17Jocko Willink?

  Come on. That's, that's legit, right? And, you know, so after reading this guy all through this different criteria, he realized he wasn't a 5.0 sailor. And then on that podcast 174, I went deep into the Marine Corps Evaluation System, which is a superior document. It's a superior document. And I was looking at him today, you know, the Navy one is front and back. It's two pages. It's front and back. The Marine Corps one is six pages. So three pages front and back. More comprehensive. And what it does, it does a similar thing, which is set like the ultimate standard

• 4:59Jocko Willink?

  for what the highest level qualified Marine would be. And they have this Christmas tree thing that I talked about on podcast 174. And it's at the highest level, there's one that would be like the star on the Christmas tree. And then as you get into the middle of the categories, that there's more, more Marines, because there's more Marines that are, you know, high average. And there's even more that are just average Marines. But then the funny thing is the, the bottom of the Christmas tree, it's not a bell curve. It's not like even on both ends. At the, like the, the lowest ranking Marine or the lowest ranked Marine, there's just one of them. Like loser Marines is a very small category.

• 5:42Jocko Willink?

  But what they describe that one person, that one Marine at the top, they describe that Marine as the eminently qualified Marine. Very powerful document. And it does like sets out in no uncertain terms, the qualities and behaviors that a Marine has to exemplify in order to be a eminently qualified Marine. And, you know, I actually, I think I originally called you Dave to say, did I talk to you about this in Ramadi? And it ended up not being you. You're like, no, I never talked to you about that. Cause I was in the Brigade Tactical Operations Center and I was in there for whatever.

• 6:24Jocko Willink?

  And I was, you know, talking, it must've been, it was obviously it was another Marine who was sitting there writing, writing evals for someone.

• 6:31Dave Berke?

  It was probably my boss.

• 6:32Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And he was sitting there doing whatever. And I started, I just picked up the document. We were talking about whatever. And I immediately, I had never looked at one before. And as soon as I saw the eminently qualified Marine, I'm putting this together. You can see the wheels are spinning in my head like this is legit. And I talked to you about it. And the fact of the matter is that in order to become something, well, then you have to have clear guidance on what you need to do to become that thing. And so that's what we covered on that podcast and I closed out by talking about the fact that we as people, as human beings, don't really have any documentation like that. It doesn't really exist. And that was, that was a big thing that I learned as a young SEAL

• 7:16Jocko Willink?

  was the first time that somebody sat me down and read those descriptions to me, I said, yeah, you know what? I got some room to grow, but it wasn't until I saw what the highest level qualification was that I realized I had room to go. Cause you know, you're 22 years old and you think you're awesome until you see what awesome actually is like. So

• 7:40Jocko Willink?

  before I even recorded that podcast, when I talked to you, Dave, and I was like, hey, was this you? And you're like, I don't think so. And I said, well, we're probably going to have to do something with this because this is going to leave a mark on people and and it did, and it did. And it's, I've been got more all so incredible amount of feedback on that podcast. People have done podcasts about that podcast. And I told you that we were going to have to do something to to assemble some kind of document where people could grade themselves to try and become an eminently qualified human being.

• 8:24Jocko Willink?

  And that was over, that was almost a year ago. We've been eminent failures at getting it done, but the wait is over and it is now available on Amazon. It is called the code, the evaluation and the protocols, which is, and it look, I was going to say it's a weird name for a book, but it's actually, it's maybe not fully classified as a book. Maybe it's a handbook because it's not super long. It's not some grand articulation.

• 8:59Jocko Willink?

  But I did add, we, we, we had to start with the code, the evaluations, and then added the protocols in that allow someone to try and realize what it is like to create a vision of what, of the human that you want to be. And on the first podcast, I only talked about evaluations. But then, as we put this together, I started thinking to myself that in order to follow evaluations, you need objectives to achieve, you need some kind of rules, you need some kind of, some kind of code. And you know, part of this is from the fact that I wrote Way of the Warrior Kid, and in the Warrior Kid, I got all kinds of feedback about the

• 9:38Jocko Willink?

  Warrior Kid code, including that one guy that wrote the, with, one of the few things I've read on the podcast, which was, remember the guy that wrote, hey, I've lost this much weight and I've got a promotion, and he did, he turned his life around. And then at the end, he said, and the book I read was Way of the Warrior Kid. So, look, and I explained this in Way of the Warrior Kid, that warrior cultures have codes that they try and live by. And I did the codes from the Rangers and the Marine Corps and the SEAL Teams and the Code of Bushido and the Code of Chivalry. And there's a reason that those codes existed. And, and the code that I wrote in there for the Way of the Warrior Kid is a kid's code,

• 10:19Jocko Willink?

  but the book encourages kids to make their own code. And this book does the same thing. But, you know, this gives you a place to start. So, um, we came up with a general categories to evaluate your progress towards this code. And then the last part is about the protocols. And again, this was just another thing that kind of came out of the podcast of me talking about protocols. And I think the first time I talked about, we need a protocol, people need a protocol, was you break up with your girlfriend. And I, I went on this thing and I said, here's the protocol. You order a pizza, you get extra cheese and sausage, you,

• 11:03Jocko Willink?

  you know, you, you take two days of, of being miserable, you complain about it to your friends, and then you get up, you work out, you move on. You know, like, here's a protocol that you follow. And a bunch of people were saying, yes, we need a protocol. And I've also talked about the protocols.

• 11:18Jocko Willink?

  The fact that in America, since we have so many different cultures all mixed together, we don't really have a good protocol anymore for death. And so when someone dies, you know, in some places in the world, I always think of Ireland, that you know, they have a protocol, like you're gonna, the, you're gonna go to this pub, you're gonna go to this wake, you're gonna perform this religious service, you're gonna do this, that, they, they go through that protocol and then they move on. And different religions have that, but in America, since we have all this, everyone kind of consolidated together, we lost some of that. And so there's some, sometimes people don't know what the protocol is when someone dies. So there's another situation where something happens and it would be really good if you could follow a protocol.

• 12:01Jocko Willink?

  So we added some protocols to get people through certain scenarios in life and Dave, and then Sarah Armstrong as well, who is a friend of mine, a very successful businesswoman, very successful business leader, and a, in a long time, just old school OG trooper.

• 12:21Dave Berke?

  Straight up.

• 12:22Jocko Willink?

  And y'all helped me put this together and we ended up with this book. So what did I miss, Dave?

• 12:28Dave Berke?

  No, that's it, man. I mean, when we first did the podcast, I think we had the sense that we were just kind of, kind of replicate that. And as we started to really dig into what this looked like, we realized we need to have something else in it. That's where the protocols really came from is this sort of tells you what you can be, but we realized there's a whole bunch of things you have to do. And it was pretty cool. Look, there's no way it should have taken me this long, but we did figure out along the way, there was more needed to go into that. We needed to write a code and we needed to figure out what some of those protocols are to help people understand the things they needed to do. So, uh, so here we are 11 months later.

• 13:04Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I guess we've been, uh, busy and instead of prioritizing and executing properly, we failed. So anyways, uh, here we go. The book, let's go to the book. The book is called The Code, The Evaluation, The Protocols. Striving to Become an Eminently Qualified Human. So.

• 13:28Jocko Willink?

  The book is out on a publishing company called Jaco Publishing. And what's cool about that is, look, we turned it, if, if this was a normal publishing route, to the year it took us to get it done, add another year. So, the other thing that's cool about it is when you open the front cover, it says first, "A Dish." Literally, it says first, "A Dish." See? See that, Coach Charles? Yes, sir. So, we got first, "A Dish," and let's roll into it. Starts off, the first section is called "The Code." And the whole book is less than a hundred pages and not a ton of writing. Not needed. "The Code," here we go. "Without an objective, the objective will not be reached. Without a goal, the goal will not be achieved. Without a standard, the standard will not be met.

• 14:13Jocko Willink?

  Without a mission, the mission cannot be accomplished. Without an ideal, the ideal will never be realized. Without a clear path, the path cannot be followed." Now, that's pretty simple and straightforward, but how many people do you know that are going through life without an objective, without a goal, without a standard, without a mission, without a, without an ideal, without a path? Right, they're everywhere. They're everywhere. So, continuing, "Yet, we as human beings often go through life without any of these. And so, we wander. We wander aimlessly without making, moving without making any progress.

• 14:55Jocko Willink?

  Days, months, and years pass us by. Time is wasted, which means life is wasted." You don't think about that, do you? That when you waste time, you're wasting life. And when was it I was talking about the fact that? I don't know when I was talking about this. Maybe it was on the podcast? Maybe it was to a client? But if you take all this time that you wasted and you were able to physically pile it up and see it, and how you feel sick to your stomach after two or three years to see just this pile of wasted time.

• 15:42Jocko Willink?

  So when we waste time, life is wasted and potential is wasted. Our own potential squandered. Meandering through life instead of becoming who we could be, instead of attaining our highest possible manifestation of being, we simply become whatever we become. We fall short. In so many ways, we fall short. Well, that's what happens. That's what happens. Happens to all kinds of people. Happens to me, where I fail to do what I should be able to do.

• 16:24Jocko Willink?

  You know, I was thinking about this the other day. If you've got something in your head, if you've got some idea in your head, some thought, some dream, some, some, something that you want to create and you don't execute on that, that is a mortal sin. Think about that. You've got something in your head, you've got some idea, you've got, you've got this thought that wants to come out, but you don't have the discipline to get it out and you let this thing die inside your head.

• 17:08Jocko Willink?

  That is, that is a mortal sin. That's my opinion. You've got to get it out. Sorry, little tangent there. That's, that's, that's what I think about though.

• 17:25Dave Berke?

  Yeah. Just the saying when we wrote this is, "You simply become whatever we become." It's such a failure to think that if we don't do that thing you just described, we just become, well, I don't know what we become. We become whatever. And I think part of the reason, I got, I think I got more feedback on 174, that podcast, and more people reaching out, asking about it than any other podcast we did, because this, that struck a chord with people, right?

• 17:50Jocko Willink?

  And you weren't even on it.

• 17:53Dave Berke?

  You had mentioned the Marine Corps and how does the Marine Corps do this? And people were asking me and went and I think very shortly after you mentioned we were gonna do something, write something about it.

• 18:02Jocko Willink?

  I think I mentioned it on the podcast.

• 18:04Dave Berke?

  Yeah, people are asking, how do I download, you know, the Marine Corps like Google Marine Corps performance evaluation? But I was getting questions all the time about that podcast because people wanted to know how the Marine Corps did this and making the connection between that and themselves. Cause I think this idea of if you don't become what you're gonna become, you're gonna become whatever. And there actually is criteria out there, which was the crazy part is we put a little thought into this was how many people, how many times have I just done whatever I did? Which sucks so bad to think about that.

• 18:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and this, this book right here, this little 96 page or whatever this book, right?

• 18:44Jocko Willink?

  To not put this out is wrong.

• 18:47Dave Berke?

  Totally.

• 18:47Jocko Willink?

  It's wrong. It's wrong. We had to put it out and you know what? It's not easy. It's a pain. There's a bunch of iterations. You're sending me edits, you know, it's all just a pain, right? But if you let it sit there and just die, you're wrong. You're committing a sin.

• 19:04Dave Berke?

  Yeah, and not just for yourself, but for your family, for the people around you, for God knows how many number of people that could actually benefit from that effort you put into creating something that won't just help you, but it could help everybody.

• 19:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And you know what? I guess what must scare people is they might think, well, you know, what if I do this? Actually, this is probably more of an excuse than anything else of, well, what if I do this and no one really likes it? And I've said that to some people, some people say, I really wanna start a podcast.

• 19:32Jocko Willink?

  And then they'll say something like, or I really wanna write a book and they say, but you know, I'm really not sure if anyone's would be interested in it or you know, whatever. And I always say, if you're writing it or you're recording it so that other people will listen to it, you're already starting off on a bad foot. Because if that's your, look, you need to write it for, or write it or record it or do whatever because it wants to come out, because you need to get it out there. And then the world can judge it however the world judges it, which is fine. And if you get told, hey, that, yeah, you're, that thing you wrote was pretty dumb.

• 20:07Jocko Willink?

  Then you go, okay, lesson learned. Maybe that was a bad idea, you know? I know some of the ideas that you let out of your head echo Charles to me sometimes. Sometimes they take some abuse.

• 20:17Speaker 02

  Yes, sir, they do. Well, actually, I mean, in a way, that's kind of what I was thinking when you're saying that. I was like, yeah, it's a sin to come out, but like, well, what if it's like, because in my mind, it has like a non-rigid approval process. See what I'm saying? So, you know, it comes.

• 20:33Jocko Willink?

  Expand, which I don't ask you to do very often, and I may never ask you to do again.

• 20:37Speaker 02

  Like I said, non-rigid. So, you know, you come up with an idea, you get reminded of something or inspired, whatever, and then you're like, oh, yeah, that'd be cool if I did this. And then it hits like a first, the first small roadblock, and you're like, okay, that's not a good idea. Like, kind of the realism of the world kind of introduces itself and idea kind of fizzles. And then, but what if it passes that? You know, in your little mind or whatever, or in my case, my little mind, and it comes and, and it actually like, has like, you know, you're like, oh, yeah, that could work.

• 21:07Jocko Willink?

  She's like, oh, that sounds like a really good idea.

• 21:09Speaker 02

  Oh, no, not even, we're not even there yet. I think that's like the third layer, whatever. The second layer is kind of like, you kind of think of all the, the criteria and all the elements of the world that, that need to fit in place for this to be a good idea. It's like, oh, yeah, it's kind of clicking, you know? You can kind of see the success, you know, in the future, kind of in your head. Then, okay, that's another layer. Okay, it passes that. Most of the ideas, to be honest, don't even pass that.

• 21:31Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Well, you tell me about this, because you have a bank of ideas. You know, videos that you started for the most part, right? Started this video and then you say you have a bank of them. And some of them, you go, you go back to them and you say, you know, that was a pretty good idea, but it failed here. Or sometimes you say, I'm going to carry through with this idea.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. And yeah, exactly. Yeah. And there's a lot of those little criteria. Like now, you could, I could look at them and be like, okay, that was a good idea for that time. But if I finish this now, it won't land now. That'd be like, everyone'd be like, oh, that's kind of old school concept kind of thing. And yeah, it's a whole spectrum of things. There's probably more videos and stuff like that than in that bank.

• 22:08Jocko Willink?

  So I guess, I guess, maybe you don't need. Maybe if you don't produce, like you don't have to finish the thing, but you gotta at least get it out there into the world. I don't know. I think you kinda gotta finish it.

• 22:20Speaker 02

  Well, I think you're correct. At the end of the day, as long as it gets like through those however many layers, I'm sure we all have different layers of approval in our own head, but then as long as it passes kind of that that one standard layer that it needs to pass, you know, you know, the one where you're like, you know what? At the end of the day, you you you stop thinking about it, but before you stop thinking about it, you came to the decision, okay, that is in fact a good idea. Maybe not a level five good idea, but even like a level three, a doable level three, you know? Once it gets to that level and then you don't do it, then yes, I agree 100%. It's a sin.

• 22:55Jocko Willink?

  Interesting.

• 22:56Speaker 02

  And then that's interesting how you're like, um, even if it ends up not being a good idea and it gets judgment by the world or whatever, like the fact that it's out like that is the reason it's true. It's that's true for everything. That's true for your own face, really. Like what? Like you go out in the world, everyone's gonna look at what you got, what you have to give to the world and they're gonna evaluate it. That's the just the way it goes. If people don't like your nose, then they don't like your nose. What? Should you not have been born? I don't think so. But nonetheless, yes.

• 23:27Jocko Willink?

  You're emphatically shaking your head over there, Dave.

• 23:29Dave Berke?

  Wait, I think something you said earlier, it really doesn't have anything to do with whether or not you produce this for the world to consume it. If you got an idea in your head, there's something in and I and look, I know what it feels like to have ideas in your head, you have to get that thing out. Whether anybody else, your brain, your body actually needs that. That is like exercise. That is a thing that you need to do. And if you share it with somebody or that really has nothing to do with the part where you need to get that thing out of your head. You gotta squeeze your brain and get something out. And you know what? If it goes to somebody else, that's awesome. But that's like saying, hey, you know what? I don't need to work out today, or I don't need to rest today, or I don't need to eat healthy today. If you've got something in your head

• 24:12Dave Berke?

  that's an idea, you have to exercise your brain to get that thing out. What does, where it goes next? You can talk about it all day, but yeah, anytime you don't do that, you said it might be an excuse. They're all excuses.

• 24:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah, you know, you said squeezing your brain and then Echo repeated it because I've had separate conversations with both you guys about squeezing your brain. Because the, the ideas, they're in there, but they, they, sometimes you need to squeeze your brain to get them to come out. You've got to put a little work in. Sometimes you've got to put a lot of work in.

• 24:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the counter to the common, and I was an advocate of this, by the way, where if it's like, hey, if it's not coming to you, then it's just not its time. You know, you're just not ready for it quite yet, you know, kind of thing.

• 24:57Jocko Willink?

  And, and my solution to quote, writer's block.

• 25:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:03Jocko Willink?

  Just keep writing. Just write, write down. Yep. You can't figure out that idea, cool. Write around it and you'll figure it out.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:13Jocko Willink?

  Little tangent there. So we get to the code. Here's the code.

• 25:20Jocko Willink?

  One, I will take care of my physical health by exercising, eating properly, and getting the rest I need to recover and rebuild. I will take care of my physical surroundings, keeping them in order.

• 25:38Jocko Willink?

  Does it strike anyone as strange to start with the physical?

• 25:42Dave Berke?

  Oh, sir.

• 25:44Jocko Willink?

  I have a real easy answer for anyone that says, well, you know, your, your, your brain is paramount. If your body's not working, your brain isn't. So, number one thing, take care of your physical health. Two, I will develop myself mentally by reading, writing, drawing, building, creating, and engaging in other activities that sharpen and expand my mind.

• 26:10Jocko Willink?

  Three, I will not waste time. Time is precious.

• 26:16Jocko Willink?

  Four, I will not waste money and I will make prudent financial decisions. Money is hard to earn.

• 26:23Jocko Willink?

  Five, I will set goals that I will strive toward. Six, I will excel in my job because work is integral to life.

• 26:35Jocko Willink?

  Seven, I will be humble and not allow my ego to negatively impact my decisions. Eight, I will control my emotions and not allow my emotions to negatively impact my decisions. Nine, I will put others before myself. I will help other people and protect those that cannot protect themselves. I will take care of my friends and family and treat other people with respect.

• 27:00Jocko Willink?

  Ten, I will be ready to protect my friends and family. My gear will be ready. I will train and prepare to defend myself and others.

• 27:13Jocko Willink?

  It's code.

• 27:17Jocko Willink?

  And I just kinda...

• 27:21Jocko Willink?

  Well, I guess I kinda covered here. Look, then it says this. This code is not perfectly suited to everyone.

• 27:28Jocko Willink?

  But it is not unalterable. You can modify it if needed, customize it for you and your life. While it isn't perfect, it's a good place to start. And while we may never be able to live up to this code, we will be better for having tried. Now, I don't... I have a hard time conceiving of someone that would look at any of these things in the code and be like, "Yeah, I don't agree with that one."

• 27:51Jocko Willink?

  Is there anything that you can say, "Well, don't know about that?"

• 27:54Dave Berke?

  Yeah. No. That doesn't mean it has to be exactly like this, and your code can be what you want it to be. But there's nothing in here you would look at and go, "Humility doesn't apply to me."

• 28:07Jocko Willink?

  Actually, if you're, if you look at this and you're thinking that, red flag, red flag.

• 28:12Dave Berke?

  We are actually, we started talking about this part of it, we're on a plane, I think we're actually maybe headed to Australia. We're sitting together on a plane, we're talking about, hey, we need to write the code itself as it, you know, we're talking about the Warrior Kid Code. And it came from this idea of what you were talking about before, which was if we don't, if we're not on the path, we just become whatever we've become. But that's not how it has to be. It doesn't, that is not your, you're not predestined to just become whatever. You can actually control in a lot of ways, what you become and what path you get on, but you need to, you need to know how to do that. You need a code to tell you how to do that. This is less about doing the specific thing that we're talking about and more about having a code that defines who you are.

• 28:51Dave Berke?

  So you are on some path. Because if you're not on some path, and your path is different than your path and different than my path, but if you're not on a path, you are destined to become whatever. And that, that is not okay.

• 29:03Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And from a decentralized command perspective, look, my troops in the field can make a decision on what they're going to do based on the overall commander's intent. But we go through life with no, not understanding our own commander's intent of our life. So if you take this and you need to make decisions about your life, this just gives you the broad framework to say, you know what? I'm not gonna, I, should I, should I, should I look at another Netflix show right now? Or should I go and work? Should I do something productive? Well, I will not waste time. Time is precious. Okay. I, I know what decision to make there. Hey, I want to buy this frivolous, you know, whatever, new, what do you buy? Gold chain.

• 29:48Jocko Willink?

  New gold chain, right? You, you, now, you could say, well, you know, I really want it and it looks really cool or whatever. And then you say, you know what? I will not waste money and I will make prudent financial decisions. Yeah, I don't need the gold chain. Like there's a, understanding your own commander's intent and, and having that as a framework to make your decisions on allows you to make good decisions all the time.

• 30:15Jocko Willink?

  Should I have this donut?

• 30:18Speaker 02

  No, sir.

• 30:19Jocko Willink?

  Right. I mean, I'm gonna take care of my physical health.

• 30:23Jocko Willink?

  Should I? Should I drink this whiskey?

• 30:28Speaker 02

  Well, it's debatable, but yeah, man, I dig it.

• 30:32Jocko Willink?

  Wait, wait, wait. What was that answer?

• 30:33Speaker 02

  It's debatable. I'm just saying, is that kinda like, you know, when you're flying a plane, like your instruments?

• 30:38Jocko Willink?

  You're avoiding the question. Echo Charles.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  What?

• 30:41Jocko Willink?

  Are we drinking whiskey?

• 30:42Dave Berke?

  I wanna see the connection between me flying an airplane with my instruments and him drinking whiskey. I'd like to see where this goes.

• 30:47Jocko Willink?

  We'll see where this goes.

• 30:48Speaker 02

  You see what I'm saying? I was doing that thing. Okay, whiskey, uh, you know,

• 30:53Speaker 02

  maybe if you're building cohesiveness within a team.

• 30:56Jocko Willink?

  Okay.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  Sure. You know, it could apply. You see what I'm saying? Or let's say you're a writer, which I'm not, by the way, so this hypothetical. And you do it to facilitate your creative process.

• 31:11Jocko Willink?

  I would question that.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:14Jocko Willink?

  Very sternly.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 31:16Jocko Willink?

  I would say that that's not gonna help you.

• 31:18Speaker 02

  I don't know, man.

• 31:19Jocko Willink?

  And I'd say you might wanna check your code.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  Wait, who's the guy? Who's the writer? He's like a prolific, like, super famous writer who just drink whiskey all the time or something.

• 31:27Dave Berke?

  Ernest Hemingway?

• 31:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it was Hemingway. I don't know, someone talks.

• 31:31Dave Berke?

  I don't think that's actually true.

• 31:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:34Dave Berke?

  But I think the people are gonna push back the hardest.

• 31:37Jocko Willink?

  He blew his brains out with a shotgun. Let's lay, let's lay off the whiskey.

• 31:41Speaker 02

  Everyone's path is different.

• 31:42Dave Berke?

  The people are gonna push back the hardest are the people that are drinking whiskey. And the reality is, is there's, there's actually a code that can ask, you can ask yourself, should I be doing this right now?

• 31:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I dig it, man.

• 31:52Jocko Willink?

  That's the point.

• 31:53Speaker 02

  I understand.

• 31:56Jocko Willink?

  Going on. Like I said, uh, like I said in the book, while we may never live up to this code, we will be better for having tried. We will get stronger, faster, smarter. We will build a better career. We will be better mothers, fathers, husbands, wives, daughters, and sons. We will be healthier. Our lives will be better, and we will make the lives of those around us better. Pretty straightforward. Again, you could look at that code and say, "Well, you know, you should have said this, or you should have said that." It's like, hmm, look at them. And if you feel like there's something that needs to be added, cool, add to your code. If there's something that you just vehemently disagree with, cool, subtract. But set yourself up. Set yourself up with a commander's intent.

• 32:38Jocko Willink?

  Set yourself up with a code that you can follow, that can guide your decision-making process. And by the way, when you set it up for yourself, why not share it with your family? So your family can kind of all be moving in the same direction.

• 32:53Dave Berke?

  You and I have interacted with, with literally thousands and thousands of people. Just in the last year, thousands of people have interacted. And not everyone is healthy. Not everyone's doing the right thing. Not everyone is on the path. But it's almost universal that people want to be, that they want to be. And this is what allows them to, like, I can actually control that fate just a little bit more. And a thousand people, like, they all want their lives to be better. They all want their family's lives to be better. There's just this crazy idea that there was something that seemed as simple as that. There, what was missing was just the recognition of how to start to do that. It wasn't to try to convince people that they should. It was more to explain people how they can. And, and closing that gap between what they want and what they are,

• 33:38Dave Berke?

  was that there was something in the middle was telling them how to do it, or how to even think about how to do it. You're talking about your own commander's intent? That's a really powerful way to describe what you're doing is like, what is your own commander's intent for yourself? It was never a question, do people want their lives? Almost everybody wants their lives to be better and healthier, and the people around them better. It was not having that understanding in your own mind, what you need to do for yourself to do that.

• 34:02Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and, and you probably heard me talk about the, the German, you know, decentralized command, general, talking about decentralized command, talking about Americans' briefs and how we have, you know, 120 slides in a brief. And then the last slide is commander's intent. That says, "This is what I really want done." And the German general saying, "The..."

• 34:26Jocko Willink?

  The commander's intent shouldn't be an addendum to all those different slides. It should replace them. And so, anything you can say about, hey, you know, we could write a book about how to be healthy. Right? Like here's what you need to do. Here's your workout. All those things. You can write all that stuff down. But the most important thing is, hey, you need to make decisions that lean towards good health. That's, you can replace every exercise book and every self-help book with the underlying personal commander's intent of what you're trying to do and it'll solve many, many of your problems. Yeah, for sure.

• 35:08Jocko Willink?

  And that goes with financial, that goes with your work, all those things. If you're going to work with the attitude of like, hey, I'm going to do a good job. That's my, just think of that commander's intent. I'm going to do a good, I'm going to be a good, I'm going to do a good job at my work. That's, that's my goal. You know, I was talking about this on Jocko Live a lot. Not a lot, but I think one or two of the shows, this came up where I got to talking about when I got to the SEAL teams.

• 35:36Jocko Willink?

  One of the things that just changed my life and made everything go so well was this idea. And the idea was, as a 19-year-old, I had this idea in my head. And the idea was, I want to be a good SEAL.

• 35:57Jocko Willink?

  Just, I want to be a good SEAL. That's what, that's what I want to do. And then every decision that I'm making is, is this going to make me a good SEAL? And as soon as I had that as my underlying kind of decision-making process, I started moving in a direction and so lucky, it was very lucky for me because otherwise I got all this energy as a young kid. You know, I was a really horrible young kid and I was crazy and I'd gotten all kinds of trouble and caused all kinds of trouble. And the minute I took all that energy and turned it to one thing, I want to be a good SEAL. And it took me some time to figure out what a good SEAL was and I made some errors along the way for sure. But when I would, when I was trying to be a good SEAL and then all of a sudden I did something that was wrong.

• 36:42Jocko Willink?

  And it was making me not a good seal. I could just correct it because I was like, ah, this this doesn't seem like this is being a good seal. So you apply that to all these different elements of your life, to your physical health, to your mental health, to not procrastinating, to be, you know, being a good worker, to taking care of your family, to being prepared. And we wrote this, by the way, way before, uh, you know, COVID-19, right? And now all of a sudden, people go, man, I wish I was a little bit more prepared. Yes. Yes, you should be prepared.

• 37:13Jocko Willink?

  So to get better, continue on with the book and to do that, we must strive. We must strive to be better in the things that matter. The code sets a standard, the highest possible standard, the highest possible standard reveals and delineates the path we must follow.

• 37:35Jocko Willink?

  And then it gets into what is the path? The path is how you become what you want to be, who you want to be, and what the world needs you to be. It is how you reach your potential.

• 37:49Jocko Willink?

  It is the path of discipline that leads to freedom.

• 37:54Jocko Willink?

  The path is a war against weakness, so it leads to strength. It's a war against ignorance, so it leads to knowledge, a war against confusion, so it delivers understanding. That is the path of life. And I've gotten asked, you know, because I always talk about the path. We always talk about the path. Echo Charles. Yes, sir.

• 38:12Jocko Willink?

  In fact, we close many of the podcasts, we, we talk about, hey, how do we stay on the path? How do we get on the path? Yes, sir. And of course, people sometimes ask, what is that?

• 38:23Jocko Willink?

  What is the path? Here you go. That's what this section is for. And some of those, you know, like it's direct quotes talking about the path.

• 38:32Jocko Willink?

  But the path is your life and it continues on. The path is your life. And so the path is different for everyone. It's your goals, your dreams, what you want to become. The path is yours.

• 38:44Jocko Willink?

  But at the same time, much of the path is the same for everyone.

• 38:49Jocko Willink?

  The path is how you strive to become an eminently qualified human.

• 38:59Jocko Willink?

  And then it gets into how do I find the path? What does that look like? Cause I'm sitting here saying, now the path is different for everyone. Finding the path isn't as hard as you think. Some of it is clearly defined in the code. The rest of the path comes from simple questions you can ask yourself. What do you care about? Who do you want to be? What matters most to you? What are the most important things in your life? Who are the most important people in your life and what do they need from you? Answer those questions, then write down what you need to do to achieve them. Those things that you need to do, that you are supposed to do, that you know you must do. Those things are the path.

• 39:42Jocko Willink?

  The path is in your head, waiting for you to follow it.

• 39:48Jocko Willink?

  Once again,

• 39:51Jocko Willink?

  it's funny that when we talk about the path, even though people are like, what's the path? Everyone kind of knows what it is. Like, like, you know how many people have come up to me like, oh, I've been on the path for like two years now? We never defined the path, but they know what the path is. I've been on the path for, I've been on the path. You know, when, when I used to, when I used to meet people would come up to me and they'd say, all right, man, it's really good to meet you. I'd be like, how long you been on the path for? And this is something that had never been defined, never said the path was this, this, this, and this. But they knew what the path was.

• 40:25Dave Berke?

  Yeah, it's in their head. They know. You were talking about, you said, if you don't do this, it's a mortal sin. He's the mortal sin. You said earlier, the path is what the world needs you to be. That's the mortal sin by not being on the path is that you are failing the world. The world needs you to be this. That's the mortal sin of not doing whatever this thing is you need to do. Whatever that path is, not being on the path, is that's what the world needs you to be. I think that's legit.

• 41:01Jocko Willink?

  Next section, how do I stay on the path? Once you see the path, you must begin to walk down it. This can be the most difficult part of the journey to break free of the gravitational pull of weakness, habit and fear.

• 41:16Jocko Willink?

  The gravitational pull of weakness, habit and fear. Those are some strong gravitational pulls.

• 41:25Jocko Willink?

  The best way to start is to start. Don't hesitate, don't wait, don't analyze or plan or research, just start now. Once you begin down the path, you will soon realize it is not an easy path. The path is fraught with obstacles and distractions, laziness, ego, weakness and immediate gratification will try to pull you off the path every day. You must fight them. You will even have to fight people who don't want you on the path. But you can fight. And you can win. What is it about people that don't want you on the path? You know what I'm saying?

• 42:07Speaker 02

  It's that self-reflection, right? Thing where you know how? I don't know. I'm sure there's millions of examples, but you know, the kind where you see someone like

• 42:16Jocko Willink?

  Why don't you just give us a couple thousand of them?

• 42:19Speaker 02

  You see someone like working hard and it's like, man, you kind of know in the back of your head, like straight up consciously though, like I should be working harder and that kind of like demonstrates it for it's like a reminder of how hard you could be working, but you're not, I don't like that feeling. So, hey, if you just stopped working hard, I wouldn't have to like do anything hard and I could actually feel better, you know? It's like that kind of, kind of situation.

• 42:46Jocko Willink?

  I think this happened in Australia at the muster. We, we would do our workouts. So before the muster, we're like running dry rehearsals of the, of the PTs, the early morning PTs. And so we'd be out there at four, four 30 in the morning. And people would walk by and it was interesting. It's interesting because it'd be, you know, it's time, people, some people coming home from the pubs, right? It's four o'clock in the morning, right? We're seeing people, they got their, they got their drink on. And so, but it's interesting how some people would say. Some people are just would just be negative, you know, well, you don't want to, what are you doing? You know, they're and and what you can just feel it coming out of their system. They just feel guilty and horrible.

• 43:29Dave Berke?

  Yeah, it's not, it's a lot less about you than it is about them. Those gravitational forces of weakness and fear. Man, they like company, they like other people suffering from saying they see you break it free. Those gravitational forces, they don't like that. And it's better for them if you stay down there with them. Cause that forces them to start to reconcile their own weakness and their own fear and their own gravitational pulls at putting them in the wrong direction. And that's what you're fighting against is them seeing you breaking free from that. And that's gonna be a problem for them.

• 44:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, especially when those people are like close to you with, you know, I guess, you know, I see it, I understand. But man, it's kind of even worse when they're close to you for them. You see what I'm saying? Like, what if you're, what if your drinking buddy is now like doing something else and he's not drinking anymore?

• 44:16Jocko Willink?

  Come on, man, just come and have a beer with me. Come on, what's wrong with you?

• 44:21Speaker 02

  What's wrong? Yeah, man.

• 44:23Jocko Willink?

  Bro, what happened? Let's go have some fun, come on.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:28Jocko Willink?

  Forget about this path stuff, what are you talking about?

• 44:31Speaker 02

  What are you doing, improving yourself?

• 44:33Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's weird, that used to really, I'm sure you saw this in the Marine Corps, but well, maybe you did. In the SEAL teams, you'd see someone trying to step up and you'd see other people trying to hack away at it. Freaking nasty.

• 44:47Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 44:48Jocko Willink?

  Worst thing ever.

• 44:49Speaker 02

  Is it, you know how like when you're close to someone, you kind of have this kind of picture of them, you know, like this, um, like this just idea of who they are, right? And then so when they, and then you kind of, in a way, you kind of get used to it or get comfortable with it, like in the relationship and all that. So when they change, you kind of throw off the relationship a little bit. Like, it's like, oh, my whole image of you is like changing. Now I'm uncomfortable, it feels like that too sometimes, you know, like. Wait, you know, if you just, especially if they make a quick, like drastic change. You know, the idea like, man, I feel like I don't know you anymore. Yeah, cuz it makes me feel uncomfortable in that way as well, you know, like cuz it's like that, almost like a, like a social comfort zone, you know?

• 45:33Speaker 02

  Where it's like they're different. It's almost like, oh, the friend that I know, even though you're better technically, the friend that I've come to know and love is different. Yeah, yeah, it's not there anymore, you know?

• 45:42Jocko Willink?

  The, when Seth Stone was, had this idea in his head that he wanted to go to Princeton, wanted to go undergrad at Princeton. And so he started, you know, he's in active duty in the SEAL Teams and there's no program that sends you to Princeton. And he, he says to me, he's like, hey, you know, I'm thinking about trying to go to Princeton, like, and I guess there was some program that might have been in the process of being created or whatever, but it wasn't a real thing yet. And I said, I said, bro, that's, that's, yeah, that'll be awesome, man. That'll be awesome. I mean, you'll be a degree from freaking Princeton, right? And he comes back to me a few days later, and we weren't in task unit bruiser at this time. And he says, yeah, I'm not sure if I should really go. And I said, why not, man?

• 46:25Jocko Willink?

  He's like, well, some of the other officers I've talked to said that it's not a good idea. And it would, it could mess up my timing and my career and stuff. And I said, bro, that is just, just absolute jealousy.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  A degree from Princeton.

• 46:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 46:41Jocko Willink?

  And you know, the thing is Seth had such a big heart. You know, and he was so loyal, like even when he asked guys, he kind of took it at face value. Oh, they're, they're looking out for me. And I said, bro, these guys are jealous. You should absolutely apply. And he did, and he went, and yeah, obviously.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  I did, that's the, that's the thing though, is the beauty about being off the path and you get on the path. There's a lot of people on the path. So whatever you're losing, whatever those friends are, those grab, the, you forget them quickly cuz there's a lot of people on the path that are gonna replace them immediately. Getting on the path.

• 47:18Jocko Willink?

  Fear, whatever you're breaking free from, all those people kind of try to pull you down. Those people fade almost immediately when you get on the path. Because the satisfaction of being on the path with other people that are on the path. Dude, that is a way more powerful gravitational force than the fear of letting your friends down. Say, hey, just come hang out with me. Come play video games or whatever people do today. I don't know if that's one of those things.

• 47:40Speaker 02

  Drinking is a big one, I think. Yeah, and that's not to mention the people that actually come with you. Even a little bit, you know how like, um, I think it's Jordan Peterson saying like, to find out who your friends are, see who like is happy with your success or something along those lines, right? And that's kind of what it does too. Where, you know, like your old drinking buddy, some of them will be like all hating on you. Like, oh, he's too good for us now, you know, mad or whatever. But then every once in a while, like you'll get one be like, hey, wait, what are you doing over here? Let me get some, you know, let me try that. Let me come with you, you know, wherever, you know, to jujitsu, whatever. So then that'll differentiate and that'll separate and identify kind of like who's your, who's your quote unquote real friends as well.

• 48:21Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and if you see your friends becoming successful and you start feeling that little twinge of, you want to bring them down.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're being that guy, man.

• 48:31Jocko Willink?

  Don't let that happen. Continue on every moment you are alive is made of choices you get to make. Little tiny choices that alone mean nothing, but when combined together mean everything.

• 48:46Jocko Willink?

  You have to make the right choices, the hard choices. You have to deny immediate gratification and push back against weakness. You must impose unmitigated daily discipline in all things. That is how you stay on the path. We must stay on the path if we are to become an eminently qualified human being. But what does this eminently qualified human look like? What are the attributes of this person? An eminently qualified human is a person who has achieved mastery in every facet of life. This person has reached their full potential in every measurable way. This person lives the code. But in order for us to live the code, we need to clearly define its parts so that we can evaluate our progress every day.

• 49:30Jocko Willink?

  We need an evaluation system to grade ourselves as we attempt to follow the code. And it should be hard, the bar must be set high, it should be near impossible.

• 49:42Jocko Willink?

  But just in striving, we will become better.

• 49:46Jocko Willink?

  And we must implement discipline. We must aim to implement unmitigated daily discipline in all things. It is the only way.

• 49:59Jocko Willink?

  There are countless aspects of life, each with its varying level of importance. But what are the most important? What aspects of life should be focused?

• 50:09Jocko Willink?

  Where should the pursuit of excellence be concentrated? It's easy to say that everyone's life is different and that is impossible to quantify categories that are the most important. But that isn't true. There are some things in life which should be universally placed in the forefront of our efforts as human beings. To that end, there are the most critical parts of being an eminently qualified human and how they should be measured. This is how we set the standard. This is the code evaluation. And so now we get into this evaluation and this is where we tie into, you know, this is where it all stemmed from. This Marine Corps evaluation, which sets the insane and basically unachievable goals.

• 50:52Jocko Willink?

  And I would, I would tell you that even someone that got five O's in categories. You could, you could dig those down a little bit.

• 51:03Jocko Willink?

  I got five O's in categories. I can tell you I didn't meet that standard. Not happening.

• 51:09Jocko Willink?

  So the first category is health. Since our physical bodies are the support mechanisms for our brains, physical fitness and health are paramount to our existence. To be able to engage in the critical, critical aspects of life, our bodies need to be able to endure the demands we place on it. We need to exercise, be well rested and well nourished to reach optimal health. On top of cardiovascular health, a person must be strong, fast, agile, flexible and mobile. To be each of those things, you have to engage in activities that positively impact all of them. What we put into our bodies and how we effective, how effectively we rest our bodies play an equally important role in ensuring we can perform at the highest level. You can't reach your potential if you aren't healthy.

• 51:54Jocko Willink?

  So this is what you're grading yourself on. This is the evaluation. This is how you're grading yourself. The number one thing that you're grading is health. It starts with physical fitness. 1.1, physical fitness. Being physically fit allows you to perform daily functions from working to playing with your kids to moving things around the house, all while avoiding injury. Having an effective fitness routine when you're young sets the foundation for being fit later in life. Maintaining your physical fitness becomes more critical as you get older. This is a basic daily necessity.

• 52:27Jocko Willink?

  And then it talks about 1.2, sleep and rest. Brain and body recovery is rooted in sleep. As scientific studies on the effects of sleep continued to mount, it's becoming more and more evident that you must consistently get your required amount of sleep in order to cognitively perform on the highest levels. Sleeping too little or too much have dramatic negative effects on your body and ability to perform. Establish the amount of sleep you need and prioritize accordingly.

• 52:59Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. I've had to point people back to the Discipline Equals Freedom field manual when they're like, "What time are you waking up? What time do you go to bed?

• 53:11Jocko Willink?

  What's wrong with you? You're killing yourself. You're so unhealthy." No. No. Some people need different amounts of sleep.

• 53:21Jocko Willink?

  And if you need sleep, you need to get sleep. Yeah. And then the next part of health is diet and nutrition. There's no part of you, your diet does not affect. The fuel for your body determines how you look, feel, and function. Determines how it looks, feels, and functions. Knowledge and implementation of what constitutes a healthy diet is imperative and will make the difference between maximum performance and substandard performance.

• 53:50Jocko Willink?

  So there you have it. Yeah. Pretty straightforward. That right there is health.

• 53:56Jocko Willink?

  The next thing we go into is called 2.0, personal development.

• 54:02Jocko Willink?

  Personal development, much like our bodies, we need to nourish and grow our, much like how we need to nourish and grow our bodies, our brains and personal behaviors need the same attention. Our brains need activities like reading, writing, building, creative pursuits, and other actions that promote intellectual health. We also need to train ourselves to improve how we deal with the challenges in our personal world. Making the best use of our limited time and money and setting goals all contribute to personal development.

• 54:32Jocko Willink?

  So this is one of those things where, you know, if you don't, if you're not grading, that's the point of this evaluation. If you don't grade, if someone doesn't show you, like when I was a young SEAL and I thought I was doing a good job with tactics, and then they show me what it says to be a tactical 5.0, I'm not even close. So how often do we think about from a personal development

• 54:56Jocko Willink?

  perspective that we're actually doing an outstanding job? We don't even, most people don't even know what that even remotely looks like.

• 55:07Jocko Willink?

  So then we talk about intellectual fitness.

• 55:12Jocko Willink?

  While carried in the chassis of the body, the mind is supreme. It is us. It needs to be protected, nourished and trained. You exercise the brain and make it more capable by reading, writing, studying and learning new things. You need to develop in areas you don't always, that don't always fit into your normal routine. Even if your job or responsibilities don't demand it, cultivate something artistic like music, writing or singing.

• 55:40Jocko Willink?

  Do things you're not good at and try activities that make you uncomfortable. They promote creativity and intellectual growth.

• 55:48Jocko Willink?

  Remember how just psycho we go whenever you and I talk about the, uh, the, the fact, the creative aspect of combat and war, and how much the Marine Corps talks about this creative nature? Creative nature needs to be developed.

• 56:07Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 56:09Dave Berke?

  The idea of intellectual fitness as being a thing that

• 56:14Dave Berke?

  that you have to force yourself to do things you're not good at, to exercise your own brain. It's easy to think about that in the physical term like, oh, I want to get better at something. I'll do this physical exercise. I will run or I will lift weights or whatever. I'll stretch. If I'm not good at, I don't have good flexibility, I can fix that by stretching. The intellectual piece is especially at work. There'll be people in the grinder and the routine and they just get stuck in this day-to-day thing of what they're doing is your brain needs you to force it to do things it's not good at, to get better. And it's not that you become a master pianist or a brilliant musician. It's that your brain gets better and smarter and stronger and you can do so many other things better by doing that. The intellectual fitness piece is how your brain grows,

• 56:56Dave Berke?

  which it has to every day. I don't, I can never remember being told to think about how you're growing your brain every day. I did not have that growing up. Nobody told me that. I didn't think about that. And it never occurred to me that this is something that I every day need to think about how I'm doing.

• 57:14Jocko Willink?

  It gives you, and I would say people are now kind of discovering, like they'll tell like, hey, when you're over 60, you should try and learn an instrument or try and learn a new language because it makes your brain, your brain is like your body. It needs work. It needs to exercise. And not to mention just how,

• 57:33Jocko Willink?

  look, the mind is the ultimate weapon. I was just telling

• 57:38Jocko Willink?

  my son that the other day, you know, because all he wants to do is what? Jack steel, right? Train. Like, that's it. He said, hey, man, that's awesome. I get it. But you better, you better sharpen that other, that other tool you got too. Because that's the ultimate weapon.

• 57:58Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 57:59Jocko Willink?

  And you can feel it. I can. Like, like I can feel it when I'm, when I'm on point, when I'm doing a bunch of work with a bunch of clients where I'm digging deep with, you know, writing something or going through.

• 58:14Jocko Willink?

  You know, when I'm, when I'm preparing for a podcast, I can feel, I, I feel the, the foundation getting stronger. You know, I feel my own mental foundation getting stronger because I have better understanding and connecting the dots and, and pulling the thread and figuring out where things connect. And that's just powerful.

• 58:35Speaker 02

  You get a lot of exercise, so to speak, collaborator of your brain, just by talking to so many people.

• 58:41Jocko Willink?

  Oh, 100%.

• 58:42Speaker 02

  You ever, I mean, you ever been in a situation where you didn't talk to anyone for like a week? Not anyone at all, but like you've been pretty, whether it be stayed in your house or whatever, maybe just me, but, I don't, let's say I don't have many social interactions, we'll say for like a little extended period of time. When you jump back into social situations, you feel kind of awkward, you know? Same thing as if like you stopped lifting for a while, then you try to get underneath that weight again and you're like, whoa, this is a little heavier than I, than I remember it being, you know?

• 59:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you know, uh, when Jordan Peterson kind of hit the scene and, people would, people would talk to me about, about Jordan and,

• 59:25Jocko Willink?

  they'd say, man, he gives these incredible answers, right? And, and I'd be like, yeah, definitely. And then I'd say, go watch his lecture from 1987 when he was a professor at Harvard. He's given that answer that, you know, someone asks him, whoa, whatever, whatever they're gonna ask him. He's, he's actually given that answer and thought through it at a deep level that he's gonna give, be able to give that answer and it's gonna sound amazing because he's prepared that answer at that moment for 30 years. But here's the thing. That, having that base is what allows you to riff when the time comes. It allows you to make that little adjustment to that individual person.

• 1:00:08Jocko Willink?

  So the more training you get, the more exercise you get, the better you're gonna be. And you know, you also see it with, uh, like, like politicians. If you see a politician and someone catches them with, where they don't, they haven't fought through that answer before, depending on their intellectual fitness. Sometimes they can figure out a way around it, but sometimes they're just looking dumb. You know what I'm saying? Because they're just, they just don't know how to do it. And you can see a good, a good politician. They get asked something that catches them off guard and they're able to handle it in a good, positive way. You know, like, like, hey, oh.

• 1:00:53Jocko Willink?

  You know what, that's, that's, you know, when you make that, you know, they have their answer, they have a way of doing it. They have a way of contemplating what's going on in real time because they're used to doing it. And you know, you know, Dave, this is kind of our life, not a political side, but working with companies and going in and having people ask us questions. And, you know, we're going to score 94%. I've heard that question or a very close, similar question that, and then 6% it's like, oh, this person has a unique problem. That's, that's just their problem. How do we apply our leadership principles to that problem that they're having? And the more, the better, the stronger your foundation is, the easier it is to say, oh yeah, here's what you're experiencing. I, I get it. I understand what you're trying to say, and here's a way to approach that.

• 1:01:40Jocko Willink?

  Intellectual fitness. 2.2 time management. There's no more valuable resource in life than time and it is limited in quantity. No one knows how much time they have, so you have to maximize all of it.

• 1:01:54Jocko Willink?

  All of it.

• 1:01:56Jocko Willink?

  And yet people waste their most precious resource every day. How well you manage your time determines how productive you are.

• 1:02:05Jocko Willink?

  Next one, financial management. Like time, money is precious resource. So avoid wasting money on anything that isn't productive. Track what you spent money on, what you saved and what you invested. If you are disciplined with your money, you will have more of it to spend on things you want and things you need. What's the criticism that says, you know, it seems like you're awfully focused on money here? Right? Is there a criticism that's going to come my way? That's going to be leveled at me?

• 1:02:36Dave Berke?

  That you should be disciplined with your money?

• 1:02:38Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:40Jocko Willink?

  I, I think the, the reason what this.

• 1:02:45Jocko Willink?

  That this leaves a mark where it's something that I think people need to pay attention to. Is because when I, people that I've known throughout my entire life.

• 1:02:55Jocko Willink?

  When you look at what problems they have. Like what is causing their angst, what is causing the, the, the problems in their life?

• 1:03:06Jocko Willink?

  There's a large percentage of those problems that are financial problems.

• 1:03:10Dave Berke?

  For sure.

• 1:03:14Jocko Willink?

  And if you don't think about it, and you know, if you're gonna talk to, if you're gonna have a code, and you're 18 years old, look, you're not gonna start thinking, many, I shouldn't say that you're not, many people don't start thinking about money when they're 18. They don't start thinking about their finance when, you know what their finance is when you're 20 years old? Do I have enough money for Saturday night? Cool, made it. You know, and then they'll go through the week and then they try and scrape together a little bit more money, and then the same question, do I have enough money for Saturday night? Cool, made it. And the only time they adjust is if they didn't have enough money for Saturday night. And then they go, I've gotta need to work some more hours. So they work a little bit more hours so they have enough money for Saturday night. Not the way to go through life.

• 1:03:58Dave Berke?

  No. And most people that get on the path, they're not jumping on the path so they can end up with a Ferrari. Like, that's not the path that they're on. This idea of financial management and recognizing that this is a precious resource, that everybody needs to fulfill whatever it is that you want. If you wanna take music lessons, you want to put your kids through piano, that's gonna cost a little bit of money. And this idea of financial management is really the recognition that whether you wanna admit it or not, or whether you like it or not, this is a resource that is hard to come by. It's hard to come by and it's going to influence your life. It doesn't say your goal should be to be rich. That's not what this says. And that's not even really the point.

• 1:04:41Dave Berke?

  But this is a resource that is going to impact your life for your entire life. For you, for the people around you. And what it means is that you need to acknowledge that, you need to make decisions that impact that, so you can have as much of that resource as possible to do the most good with that resource when it matters. And there is very few things in the world that you can do where money does not influence it, for better for worse. You just, when you were talking about what do people think about when they're 20, you're talking to every 20 year old that's out there right now. I mean, we can all relate to that idea of, where am I thinking? How far down the road am I thinking? That is not a path. That is not the way to go through life. This is a resource that people need to live the life they want.

• 1:05:23Dave Berke?

  Doesn't mean you have to be rich. Doesn't mean you have to drive fast cars and have a nice house. It means you have to have this resource to help the people around you do the things that they need. And if you don't think about that, you're not going to have it when you need it.

• 1:05:34Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, if you don't put the goal in place, you're going to always be looking to Saturday night.

• 1:05:40Dave Berke?

  Yep.

• 1:05:41Jocko Willink?

  Or whatever that, you know, equivalent is in your life, which is, do I have enough money to pay the rent? Do, you know, when you're, do I have enough money to feed the kids? Do I have enough money for the car payment? Whatever those things are.

• 1:05:52Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:52Jocko Willink?

  You don't have to end up there.

• 1:05:54Dave Berke?

  No, you don't. And if there's a massive disruption, like what we're going through right now, if you're on the path, you can deal with that better. You can respond to that better. You can take care of your family better. This is about recognizing that this resource, it impacts your life.

• 1:06:10Jocko Willink?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:10Dave Berke?

  And it will forever.

• 1:06:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I guess anybody that would say, uh, you know, well, money's not important.

• 1:06:19Jocko Willink?

  It's, it's tough to convince me of that. Because if, even if you're saying, hey, you know what? I'm going to live in a van down by the river. You, you, you need, you need gas for the van.

• 1:06:29Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:30Jocko Willink?

  And that means you're going to have to do something to get money for gas for the van. You, you know, that's the way it is. So you can even, and, and part of financial management is setting your expenditures at a point where you can handle them. You know, like, uh, I forget whatever podcast we talked about financial management. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, here's what you do. Spend less than you make. Start with that. Spend less than you make. Cool. That's going to put you in a great place in life. You know, you don't need the brand new car off the lot.

• 1:07:06Dave Berke?

  No, sir.

• 1:07:07Jocko Willink?

  You don't need that, Echo Charles.

• 1:07:09Dave Berke?

  I, yeah, I understand.

• 1:07:12Jocko Willink?

  Check.

• 1:07:13Dave Berke?

  Well, the living in the van thing too, which, uh,

• 1:07:18Speaker 02

  I'm not saying no one thinks about this or whatever, but like you need my, okay, so even your safety, right? You know, like medical or whatever, like if you break your leg or get some infection or something, living in a van, bro, you'd be in bad shape compared to, you know, if you're, if you're kind of on the path there and you're like, okay, medical, no problem. I got insurance or I can pay for it or whatever, you know, however you sort yourself out in that way. But yeah, if you're like, well, money doesn't mean anything. So I make zero money. I'm going to live off the land or whatever. Yeah, but unless you're like, even if you're trained in medical stuff, you can be jammed up. You get an infection or something like this.

• 1:07:54Jocko Willink?

  Yep. What about also, what about when you can't take care of your family?

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:59Jocko Willink?

  Cause that's a whole nother ballgame.

• 1:08:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:00Jocko Willink?

  You know, and all of a sudden you go, ah, you know what? If I'm, if I'm sick or whatever, I'll just suck it up. And but what if your kids get sick? Like then what are we going to do?

• 1:08:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:10Jocko Willink?

  That's why financial management is important. And if you're not paying attention to it, if you don't have a clearly defined goal, if you don't have an underlying commander's intent of how you're going to live financially, you're going to be caught in a hamster wheel that never ends of chasing, chasing that dime.

• 1:08:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:28Jocko Willink?

  The people that pay more, here's what, here's what, here's the weird dichotomy. If I'm a person that don't, doesn't care about money and I'm like, oh, you know, money's not important to me. I'm going to be chasing that dollar for the rest of my life versus someone that says, you know what? Money is important. I'm going to figure out how to take it and keep it and, and grow it. That person will end up not having concerned about money, not having any concerns about money. Whereas the person that doesn't care about money and doesn't think it's a big deal and doesn't want to worry about it, they're going to be worrying about it forever. So there you go.

• 1:09:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:02Jocko Willink?

  It's kind of like that one where people, people, uh, someone, someone asked us, I don't really want to fight. So why should I learn jujitsu? And I said, if you don't want to fight, you are the number one person that should learn jujitsu. So if you're out there thinking, I don't really care about money, you're the number one person that should care about money.

• 1:09:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:09:21Jocko Willink?

  You can set yourself up for freedom or you can be a slave.

• 1:09:27Jocko Willink?

  Next, personal goals. You have to know your objectives. You have to know what your objectives are to put meaning around the things you are doing. Set physical goals like running a 5K or deadlifting 8,000 pounds. Set intellectual goals like learning a language or pursuing a degree. Set goals for diet, sleep, time money, time and money management. Evaluate every day if your goals need to change and if you move closer to them. Track major milestones for school, work, competitions. Setting and achieving goals is a critical human pursuit. Make your goals hard to achieve. When you achieve them, they will have more meaning.

• 1:10:06Jocko Willink?

  Pretty straightforward.

• 1:10:09Jocko Willink?

  Next up, this is the next section that you are grading yourself in. Section 3, professional develop, development. Being good at your job allows you to provide financially for you and your family, set an example for your children, and achieve long-term objectives. Your professional success is key to your personal success. Performance, 3.1, performance. Being secure in your position at work provides stability. Minimize the risk of losing your job and the means to support yourself or your family by performing well. Get better at your job each day and seek, take, seek and take feedback from others. When there is an opportunity, find ways to actively support others and improve your team. Okay, so now we'll go down the same path. The path of, "Hey, man, I'm not going through life just to work. That's

• 1:10:51Jocko Willink?

  not my thing. I'm not going to focus on work." Okay, so that's what you're gonna do. You're not gonna focus on work. So for the rest of your 40 years of working as a human, from 20 to 60, you're not gonna focus on that thing. Guess what? You're not gonna progress. You're always gonna be at the bottom of the chain of command. You're gonna have little to no control over your fate. And I was just talking about that with a client right before we came here. The, in the Navy, I couldn't give anyone a pay raise. I mean, I could get them promoted. It takes two or three years, whatever. I can't give someone a pay raise. The way you pay people is you give them control over their own destiny. So when you work hard, you end up with control

• 1:11:35Jocko Willink?

  over your own destiny. I'll tell you what, man, I was in the military for 20 years. I would say...

• 1:11:43Jocko Willink?

  Fifteen of those years, I had almost complete unmitigated control over my own destiny. As crazy as that sounds, like as crazy as that sounds, fifteen years, I'm talking day by day, like you know, maybe one, maybe one hour of a day, you know, last week, I had a guy that was like, hey, you need to get this done. I was like, hey, Roger that. And I didn't have control over my own destiny. The other ninety percent of the time, I was, I had things set up in a way that, eh, well, I can draw my own destiny.

• 1:12:16Dave Berke?

  Well, I remember, I was one of the few kids growing up in my circle of friends at school that wanted to join the military. Most people didn't. And you know, the common thing was, I'm, I'm not, I don't want people telling me what to do. You know, I don't want to be, you know, getting yelled at by people who are, you know, outrank me and whatever that idea was of what the military was like. And I didn't really know what the military is like. I was just kind of enamored by it. And I actually sort of thought there would be some yelling involved. And I'd be told what to do. There aren't a lot of jobs in the world where you don't work for somebody. And what you described, even in the military, which people think is like the most rigid hierarchy. Bro, the amount of autonomy that I had, when I was the squadron commander of the world's only F-35 squadron in the world.

• 1:12:58Dave Berke?

  I could do almost anything. I could do almost anything. Yes, did I have a boss? Of course. Did I have met check had to meet? Of course. Just like in almost every other job in the world, I answered to somebody. But the, the tool that gave me all that autonomy was years and years and years of, and years of actually doing my job well. And the freedom that being good at your work gives you down the road, you could be in the military at any rank. If you're really good at your job, you know what you get? You get freedom. You get autonomy. You get a little control over your life and everybody wants that. When we get asked, we get asked all the time, people talk about problems they have at work. And the two simplest ways to get through what the problems are, one is typically connected to relationships. Hey, how's your relationship with this person, whatever problem you're having?

• 1:13:42Dave Berke?

  And the other one is, how good are you at your job? Cause most people that are really good at their job, don't have a lot of problems at work. They just don't. And it's the ones that have, I have friction with my boss or my leadership or, and they talk about all these problems. Oftentimes, the thing they can do to get, make, make most of those problems go away is just do a better job. Cause if you do a better job, your boss is going to stop bugging you. Your peers are going to stop bugging you. Your subordinates are going to stop giving you a hard time. So this idea of performance, that's the best thing you could do, whether you're working for the man or for the sergeant or. That gives you the most amount of freedom and self-control over your life is just be good at work.

• 1:14:19Jocko Willink?

  When I was writing Leadership Strategy and Tactics, that was a very in-depth review of my life and my career in a lot of ways.

• 1:14:25Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:26Jocko Willink?

  And that's one of the things is I dug down and said, why was I, what did I do to build trust? What did I do to get autonomy? What did I do to get ownership? What did I do to get all those things? And it was, you know, I'm sitting there squeezing my brain one night. I was like, I actually know exactly what I did. I worked really hard and did a good job. And when you work really hard and do a good job, people start, and actually, working really hard is just what I had to do to do a good job.

• 1:14:53Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:53Jocko Willink?

  If you can just do a good job, you don't really even have to work hard.

• 1:14:56Dave Berke?

  That's right.

• 1:14:57Jocko Willink?

  I had to work a little harder, but that idea of performance. And again, if there's someone that's sitting here listening going, well, you know, I don't like what I do. Cool. Do awesome at it.

• 1:15:09Dave Berke?

  Do awesome at it.

• 1:15:09Jocko Willink?

  And other opportunities will open up, including saying, hey, boss, I really have appreciated working here. I think I'm going to move on to a different career. Can I get a letter of recommendation? Absolutely. You've done great. Thank you. Boom. So the other, the other viewpoint would say, if you're not into it, you know, you don't want to invest a bunch of time into it. Okay. What are you going to do then? What are you going to do?

• 1:15:33Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:33Jocko Willink?

  This is your job. This is your vocation. Go and do it. Do it well.

• 1:15:37Dave Berke?

  And you know what? Sometimes, sometimes it actually involves just doing what you're told. And sometimes when you're the new guy, you're brand new and even if it doesn't quite make sense, maybe you don't want to do it. I don't want, but sometimes just do what you're told in the beginning. Build a little credibility. Don't push back and everything. And if that just means just following orders at the beginning, which is what all brand new people do, they're just kind of following orders.

• 1:15:59Jocko Willink?

  We hope they do.

• 1:16:00Dave Berke?

  Well, you start to figure things out a little bit. You understand what your boss's intent was and really not just giving orders. He's actually had a larger purpose, but you follow through, you get some credibility, you get a little more autonomy. And yet, does that mean sometimes you're just going to get on board and just do whatever you're asked to do to make things happen? Yes, it does. But that doesn't last forever. That usually doesn't even last a very long time. It actually is a really short period of time. And the best way to get to that is just. Just be the guy that's outperforming everybody else. Keep your mouth shut and do good work and very quickly, very quickly, you find yourself with the freedom, the autonomy and, and you get to be in charge sometimes. You get to make your own decisions with other folks. So this idea of being good at your job, it affects every part of your life.

• 1:16:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:43Dave Berke?

  Every part of your life.

• 1:16:43Jocko Willink?

  And once again, if you've got the miserable job that you hate, the best thing you can do is be awesome at it. Invest, do awesome at it because you'll get promoted out of that job or you'll get openings to another thing in the world that will allow you to, to do something that you like. Which, speaking of which, next section, advancement and qualifications. Figure out what is required to promote or advance and take deliberate steps to do so. Determine what certifications or qualifications are required to outperform your competition, then earn them. Find meaning in your job. If your job doesn't have meaning, design an excellent strategy to move to one that does. A lot of our time will be spent at work. Make it matter.

• 1:17:26Jocko Willink?

  And hey, this idea of find out what it takes to promote. You know, there were some guys in the teams that like would go through that little book and go, well, I get this call and now I get this call. Okay, now I'm ready for, that's not what I'm talking about.

• 1:17:39Dave Berke?

  No, no, no.

• 1:17:40Jocko Willink?

  That's not what I'm talking about. But that is part of performance. So do it with the right, with the right context.

• 1:17:46Dave Berke?

  Yeah. No, I mean, that's, yeah, I think you've talked about this a bunch and I think in the Navy and the Marine Corps, there, there's a same, I think it's the same phrase, we call them ticket punchers. I think it's the same. It might be, you know, like, you know, checking the block or whatever. There's some lingo out there. That is not what this is. This isn't, I'm a ticket puncher. But there is a little bit of like, hey, do I want some control? What do I need to do to get a little bit around here? Well, you do this for a while and then there's a certification that you can be kind of a, a master craftsman in your trade, or you get to get a certification where you get to be an instructor in this, in this capability. Hey, I'd like to know what that is. You learn about it, you get better at it. Those are two very different things. And you're doing it to make yourself better, make your team around you better and make, make your world better. It's a lot different than I'm gonna, you know, trick the system and I'm gonna just get my, ticket

• 1:18:30Dave Berke?

  punchers succeed until they don't. And when they don't, it's usually pretty bad. When you get kind of highlighted and revealed as a ticket puncher, things don't usually end well for those people.

• 1:18:42Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's the interesting dichotomy that just kind of showed up on these last two is if you don't want to care about money, you should care about money. If you don't want to care about your job, you should care about your job. The exit comes from discipline. Yeah. The freedom comes from discipline. Period.

• 1:18:59Jocko Willink?

  Next section 4.0, character and leadership. Who we are as a person is perhaps the most defining quality in our life. Our character impacts those around us and the world we live in and we are in complete control of it. Learning humility, managing our egos, and leading and mentoring people in our world are ways we can choose to develop our character. Remember, you don't need to be in charge of anyone or anything to lead. Everyone has the ability and the obligation to lead. 4.1, humility. This is the most important quality in a leader. Ego is the biggest killer in combat business in life. Be honest in your self-assessment of your own ego and control it. If your ego gets out of control, you will lose.

• 1:19:47Jocko Willink?

  Watch out for your ego.

• 1:19:50Jocko Willink?

  Emotional control. Stifle your emotions. Emo- everyone is emotional, but we, but not everyone can control their emotions. We are not effective when we are emotional. We don't have productive conversations, send good emails, or make smart decisions when we lose control of our emotions. Know your red flags and learn to identify when emotions start to take over. Children struggle controlling their emotions. Eminently qualified humans do not.

• 1:20:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's who gets upset. That's who gets angry. Kids, little children. Kids. So if you're not a little child, get control of your emotions. How many people Echo Charles have pushed back on stifle your emotions, right? Significant. I've heard it all. I've heard it, if you do that, that's what drives mental health problems. No, look, I'm not saying don't have any emotions. Control them though. How about you act like an adult?

• 1:20:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's, because when we did analyze that or whatever, if you call it an analysis, it's not that you're like bottling them up, you're dealing with them in a, in a specific

• 1:21:08Jocko Willink?

  Processing.

• 1:21:09Speaker 02

  More general way, yeah. So you, you know, there's a difference between how you feel and how you behave. So if you just relate, like however I feel, I'm going to behave, that's like an emotional behavior, emotional decision, emotional whatever. But if you run it through like a little filter, whatever that filter is, and don't behave emotionally, it'll help develop your capability to deal with it, to control your emotion.

• 1:21:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And it's good character. You know, that's, that's, this section is character, right? It's character and leadership. Be humble. Keep control of your emotions. And then the other part of character is mentoring and charity. So part of your character is, to the book here, helping others, having outlets to provide support to those that need it in a way that is productive for them. Set your best example, mentor someone, help set goals for friends and family members. And take care of other people.

• 1:22:06Dave Berke?

  I mean, the thing that's so important about what you said at the beginning is that this kind of defines who we are, but you're in a hundred percent control over this. You were in control over all of this. It doesn't say, don't have emotions, but you should never let your emotions control you. You should be in control of how you react to your emotions. And the difference is, and we get this all the time, is hey, I had, you had this issue at work and I tried to work it out with this person and I lost my temper. I'm like, had that conversation go? How'd that work out? The problem get solved? No, it didn't. Because I could not, I can't tell them, don't feel angry. I can't say that, don't feel angry. But as you find yourself feeling anger, you can actually control how you respond to that anger. And it could be you just deal with it, put in

• 1:22:50Dave Berke?

  this place and continue the conversation. It could be that you find a different time out of the conversation. But the anger is not in charge of you. You are in control of this. I have yet to had an interaction with someone where they lost their temper, lost control of their emotions, lost control of how they were feeling, and the outcome was good.

• 1:23:06Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. I'm thinking about

• 1:23:11Jocko Willink?

  I'm thinking about how in my life, like at some point realizing that this was not a good thing. And I was definitely watching, you know, leaders that I had lose their temper. And then just getting to a point where you know, it's like you're not gonna face me like I'm not gonna, you're not gonna, you're not gonna see that I'm getting frustrated, right? Okay, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm listening. And if I do show you some frustration, it's gonna be actively trying to show you that I'm frustrating because I'm trying to send you the message that like, hey, what you're saying right now, it doesn't make sense and you don't see that. And it's so insensible that I'm actually gonna show you some frustration. So you go, oh, Jaco's getting

• 1:23:55Jocko Willink?

  frustrated, which I don't see very often. And now I'm feeling it.

• 1:24:03Jocko Willink?

  But yeah, that's a

• 1:24:05Speaker 02

  I feel like he's talking to you, not me.

• 1:24:10Jocko Willink?

  Actually, Noah, I don't really get, I don't think, I don't know. I don't think you've ever done anything that's frustrated me, actually. Could you think of anything?

• 1:24:17Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, a couple, but

• 1:24:18Jocko Willink?

  What?

• 1:24:20Speaker 02

  Nah, they're, they're all essentially jokes.

• 1:24:22Jocko Willink?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:24:23Speaker 02

  Just like you're, yeah, they're just jokes. Like, you know, even sometimes you'll, you'll be like, um, you'll take extreme ownership, but it'll be real obvious that you're blaming me. You know, like, oh, maybe I actually, you know what? That's my fault. I should be pressing record on that thing. You know, it's up to me and you know, like that kind of stuff, but no, no.

• 1:24:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, those are just fun.

• 1:24:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, no.

• 1:24:44Jocko Willink?

  Those are just, uh, uh, good times. Yeah. Cause it's gonna be hard to frustrate me. It's gonna be hard to frustrate me, even, even on the mats of justice.

• 1:24:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:24:57Jocko Willink?

  You know, fatigue, is fatigue and emotion kind of?

• 1:25:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a feeling.

• 1:25:02Jocko Willink?

  It's a feeling, yeah. And you can act tired, right? You can allow people to see that. I don't even like to do that.

• 1:25:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know. Actually, I learned, that was a major lesson I learned from you.

• 1:25:13Jocko Willink?

  Which was what?

• 1:25:14Speaker 02

  Straight up directly. Like, don't, it, I mean, I guess you could oversimplify it and put like, don't show weakness or whatever, but um, it was like, don't, don't act tired, even if you are tired. Like, don't act tired. Cause you know, that's a common thing, especially in the beginning where you're like, you have a hard round or hard three rounds or whatever, and then after you're like, oh, and you flop on the, on the mat or whatever, you know? And it's like, oh, you're acting tired right now. I know, it's part of the thing and you know, whatever, even when you come home from work, same thing, you know, you flop on the couch, oh, what a long day, kind of thing, but you don't have to do that, you know? And there's no real benefit in doing that, like, overall, maybe some short-term benefit, maybe some feelings or something, but anyway, so in Jiu-Jitsu, yeah, I learned that.

• 1:25:56Speaker 02

  And it's weird how it kind of, your mind and your behavior kind of play off each other, you know? Cause if, the more and more I not, or I would avoid, actively avoid acting tired.

• 1:26:07Jocko Willink?

  The less tired.

• 1:26:09Speaker 02

  The less tired, I feel, yeah. It's weird. But yeah, that was, that's a big deal. Yeah, and I always have and still kind of do have, I mean, I'm starting to figure it out. I used to think Pro Jocko just never gets tired. Just never does it. But now I'm trying, starting to figure out, I'm sure you do, you just deal with it in certain ways to kind of mask it, you know? Like, just way better than what I'm used to.

• 1:26:29Dave Berke?

  Is this part of the ongoing debate? It's whether Jocko is actually a person, feels human emotions?

• 1:26:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:26:34Dave Berke?

  You, you were talking about, you know, when you're making that connection of that light bulb going on, and a lot of, when we wrote this was, you're just trying to help people make the connection sooner in life and have some sort of template to get that light bulb to go on. That feeling of a losing emotion, I remember at some point early in my military career, it was kind of a cool thing for senior guys to fly off the handle. It was like a thing. And you know, like, senior enlisted or senior officers to like, to their juniors and, and it was almost like a technique, like a leadership style. And I remember thinking every time I saw it, every time I saw it, in the back of my mind. I'm thinking how dumb that person looked and how weak that person looked. But what for me, what the connection was is that I didn't make the connection at how I looked when I did it.

• 1:27:18Dave Berke?

  Cause I would think when I did that, I looked cool. I looked like a badass. And at some point I started to realize like that feeling that I have about what other people look like. That's what other people are seeing in me. And it's not cool when I do it. I don't do it the right way. It's still the same sign of weakness that I was. It was very easy for me to see it in other people and really hard for me to see it in myself. When I made that connection, that's what made it much easier for me to just stop acting like that. And I was never really one of those guys, but earlier in my career, I almost kind of like it copy the example that I was seeing. But it always bothered me because it never see, it never made sense to me. And when I made the connection of I look as stupid as everybody else that I think looks dumb doing this to other, to other people. And that's when I made the connection and just, just kind of just stopped doing this.

• 1:28:03Dave Berke?

  Pretty rare to really, very rare to fly off the handle. But even pretty rare to just show a bunch of emotion because what, most of the time when people brought me problems. What they needed me to tell them is like, hey, hey, there's no factor. We can solve this. This is a solvable problem. I appreciate you saying that. Let's work through the solution. And they were happier and more satisfied than if I got emotional with them and got all riled up and they walked out and nothing got fixed.

• 1:28:24Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I think I'm going back to a Delta Charlie who I talk about leadership strategy and tactics. My second platoon commander, who replaced the guy that got fired. That guy was so unflappable that I think, I, I think I remember this time like watching him get chewed out by someone.

• 1:28:41Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:41Jocko Willink?

  You know, like a, like a fleet officer, you know, and he was a lieutenant. He's a prior enlisted senior chief, but you know, a lieutenant and some whatever, whatever we did or the platoon did, something happened. And you know, he like, you know, Roger that, sir. And, and I just thought to myself, wow. And then you know, he turned around and just the way he handled it, I'm like, man. That's legit. And I remember another time, one of the guys in the platoon got in a lot of trouble, like big trouble. Borderline international incident trouble. And I remember I was expecting him and it was some, somehow I ended up having a conversation with him directly. And, and I, he said something like,

• 1:29:26Jocko Willink?

  He said something like, you know, you gotta expect things like this to happen. And I was like, dang. Like, he took this whole thing where people are worried about their careers and the freaking, ah, this, that. The other thing, he goes, you gotta expect things, you know, you know, Jock, you gotta expect things like this to happen. That was his reaction. And I'm thinking, this is badass right here. This is so badass for him just to, you know, shrug his head a little bit and saying, you gotta expect things like this to happen. And I thought to myself, damn.

• 1:29:57Jocko Willink?

  Imagine this, something crazy is happening. And you're the leader. Something totally unexpected. And you go, you gotta expect things like this to happen.

• 1:30:09Jocko Willink?

  That's so legit. I try to always be that guy that said, you know, gotta expect things like this to happen.

• 1:30:17Jocko Willink?

  Next section, relationships. Which, by the way, if, if Echelon Front, so many answers boil down to, you know, okay, well, how's your relationship with that person? My boss does this, that, and the other thing. My subordinate does that. How's your relationship with that person? And then you hear the moment of silence. You know, because they know that it's not good. And then you go, okay, let's start with building a relationship where you can actually have a conversation with another human being. So, relationships are your most powerful tools for long-term success. This is true for everyone in life. You can't accomplish much on your own and you need people in your life if you are to reach your fullest potential. Since time available to spend with people is limited, you need to get the most out of every minute you have with them.

• 1:31:02Jocko Willink?

  Interactions with family members should strengthen relationships, not weaken them. Relationships with friends and coworkers should be built up at every opportunity. Spending time with the people in your life should increase trust, esprit de corps, and mutual support. And I would say, one of the

• 1:31:22Jocko Willink?

  One of the more poignant points I've made in my life is telling people if I'm gonna have a conversation with someone, I'm gonna build a relationship. Go into it with that. Go into it with like, I'm gonna sit down with Dave. Look, we have a tough topic to discuss. We've got some problems, some issue came up. My goal going into this is our relationship's gonna get better. That's the goal. And that problem's gonna get solved too, but my goal is to to build that relationship. If that's your mindset, doing what it says right here. Interactions with family members should strengthen relationships, not weaken them. Think of what that does to your interactions. Think about what that does to your family. If what you're trying to do is build, not weaken. Friends and coworkers, build. Every time you talk to them, build.

• 1:32:10Jocko Willink?

  That's a, that's the way you win. And then this last section is

• 1:32:19Jocko Willink?

  preparedness and safety. The world can be dangerous and bad things happen. Violence is a daily occurrence and can present itself without warning. You need to be prepared both physically and mentally and ensure the people closest to you are well-prepared as well. You need to train effectively to respond to a crisis.

• 1:32:39Jocko Willink?

  Martial arts and self-defense. Be able to protect yourself and your family from physical violence.

• 1:32:44Jocko Willink?

  Weapons training. Be able to protect your home from intruders or intervene and escape accordingly if required to in public.

• 1:32:52Jocko Willink?

  And lastly, home safety, emergency and disaster. Have a plan and ensure everyone in your home execute that plan under stress, rehearse that plan and assess how prepared your family is. Have all the required equipment and supplies. Everyone in your family should know CPR and basic life-saving steps. I heard Pat Mack.

• 1:33:12Jocko Willink?

  Pat Mack said, what did he say? He was doing one of his little Instagram things. And he said, in your family, something along the lines of, you can have assets and liabilities. Oh, think about that. You have assets and so you're the people in your family, if something happens, can either be an asset or a liability. Where are they at? Where are they at and what kind of effort are you putting into your family to make sure that when the time comes, they're an asset, not a liability? And here's what's cool, and I talk about this with firearms training a lot. Look, hey, firearms training is awesome. And if you need to defend yourself, there is no better solution than either, oh, okay, I guess

• 1:33:53Jocko Willink?

  avoidance is the best solution, but if you are confronted in a situation that you cannot avoid, firearm training is the best thing for you, right? Having a firearm.

• 1:34:03Jocko Willink?

  But firearm training isn't only good for that. It helps with all kinds of things. It helps your reaction time. It helps you learn to relax. It helps you control your emotions. It helps you get your breathing under control. It helps you with all these other things. Well, it's the same thing with family preparedness. Like, oh, it's cool if you start, it's cool in a moment of turmoil if you have assets in your family, if your family members are assets and not liabilities. But not only that, as you teach them things, it's makes, builds a stronger family unit. It makes them more prepared for life. You're not going to be there all the time for your daughters and your sons. They're going to be out there on their own in the world.

• 1:34:41Jocko Willink?

  So have them be prepared.

• 1:34:43Dave Berke?

  Yeah, and bad things are going to happen in their life and they need to be prepared for that. I remember when we were starting to put this section together, this, I know there's one more, but when we do this preparedness and safety, I, I was kind of thinking, how am I going to, how does this fit into the bigger picture? All these things are kind of building on each other. And the martial arts and the weapons training kind of came very quick. Like that made sense. You know, hey, just like you just described, you should be able to get away from a problem. If you can't, you should be able to take care of yourself or your family. And then we started talking about home, safety, emergency disaster. And we had this whole section on this neighborhood, community thing. And at the time, it was, it was, it was interesting trying to figure out how it, it works. And we pieced it all together and we added like two words to this after, this is all

• 1:35:25Dave Berke?

  written before this thing going on now, this whole COVID-19 thing that everybody's dealing with. We added two words, but the rest of it was, where doesn't, how doesn't this stuff help you? Every one of these things, like you just talked about, the weapons training? Helps you with breathing and like holy cow like would you like to be able to control your heart rate? Yes, you can control your own heart rate. I remember learning that for the first time when I was learning how to shoot the pistol and my coach taught me how to breathe and just and all of a sudden now this thing is having impact across ways that it never thought that there's any connection and it isn't just responding to the crisis which you absolutely need to be able to do. It's how that infiltrates all the other things that you're doing and all the stuff we talked about too and you know certainly coming full circle with what's going

• 1:36:09Dave Berke?

  on now. But do you want to have a strong relationship with the people in your neighborhood to help respond to crisis? Yes, you do for any number of reasons.

• 1:36:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, so the last section is neighborhood community impact. Develop relationships with other leaders in your neighborhood to protect against violence, disease, or disaster and create a safe environment for other residents. That's is that a good thing? You know, is there anyone that's saying no? Isolate yourself. No, don't be prepared to help out.

• 1:36:40Dave Berke?

  Do not have good relationship with your neighbors. So when something goes wrong, they won't be there to help you. And like I said, we wrote this, we wrote the word disease and disaster in there because hey, you know what? We that should be in that that makes sense. But the rest of us was just things we're thinking about is how do you be a leader in your neighborhood? How does it help you? How does it benefit you? And where else does that affect your life? And anybody that's in a community where they know they can rely on other people knows that that's important for a whole host of other reasons beyond just what we're dealing with right now.

• 1:37:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, the network that you develop is how you survive. It's cover and move toward it is and you won't survive alone.

• 1:37:18Dave Berke?

  Dude, I had that we had massive rains in San Diego like 10 days ago, massive rains up in where I live. I'm sorry, Carlsbad, not San Diego. And it was 5:30 in the morning. I was awake, but I didn't and I hadn't pieced together what was going on and I heard the rain coming down. Turns out my backyard completely was flooding and I'm back there at 5:30 with brooms and squeegees just trying to keep the stuff from overflowing into the house. And my right and my left neighbor showed up at my house 10 minutes after they got up, they checked their backyards, they checked each other's backyards, and then they came to my house and saw me and they both grabbed brooms. I didn't call them. I didn't text them. I didn't ask them. They just made it happen. That cover and move.

• 1:37:59Jocko Willink?

  Cover and move.

• 1:38:00Dave Berke?

  Yeah, relationships. And I obviously would do the same thing for them, but. That was a pretty impressive thing for me and I'm like, all I did was kind of look at the one guy who was like just, we're getting dumped on water and I go, "Thanks, bro." And he just kind of gave me the head nod, like nothing was really needed to be said or anything. He just was there. It was good to go, man.

• 1:38:18Jocko Willink?

  Yep. There you go. That's what we do. So those are the things you get graded on the evaluation. And then we say, "Most people are capable of getting better. Once they know the right attributes and understand what the parameters are and how to assess their performance, a lot more people will get closer to their goals." Can we actually get there? No, we can't. Being eminently qualified isn't a status we achieve or a conclusion we reach. Being eminently qualified is being on the path that does not end.

• 1:38:51Jocko Willink?

  It's the way of living life where we accept that every single day, there is more to do. The eminently qualified human understands this and recognizes that no matter what success that has been achieved in one place, there is more to do elsewhere.

• 1:39:06Jocko Willink?

  And as we shift our focus from one to the other, that success we just achieved will begin to erode. Our gains will decay and we will have to rebuild what we have lost. The eminently qualified human knows, there is no end. Since there is no stopping point on the quest to becoming an eminently qualified human, what are we really trying to do? The answer is simple. We are trying to get better every day. This requires growth in every facet of personal and professional development. This requires action. We have to turn our words into action. We have to turn our ideas into action. We have to turn our skills into action. We have to turn our goals into action.

• 1:39:51Jocko Willink?

  There are many resources out there that help us understand what we should, how we should behave and what is important. What we don't have is an evaluation system for human beings that lets us define our goal, identify the critical attributes required to achieve it and track our progress along the way. Until now.

• 1:40:12Jocko Willink?

  Here is the evaluation. Now we get into this evaluation and all this does is it breaks it down and this was, this is, I guess, the root of when I said, hey, we'll have something out for everyone in a week or whatever. I said, whatever freaking horrible assessment I made of how long this was going to take. This is what we were actually talking about.

• 1:40:33Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:34Jocko Willink?

  And what it does is it breaks down like what you should be striving for. We already went through the categories, but for health, I'll read a couple of these just so people get the general idea. Health, physical fitness, activities that increase cardiovascular strength, flexibility, mobility, daily actions that promote physical health. Here's the score of zero. Did not perform any activities that contributed to my overall physical fitness level. You get a zero that day. Here's the five highest score you can get. Participated in training that reached a level of exertion beyond my perceived limits. The most intense physical training that I was capable of performing set a new baseline for maximum useful effort. So you're going at it.

• 1:41:17Jocko Willink?

  Uh, got one for sleep and rest, got one for diet and nutrition. Here's the diet and nutrition. Did not eat properly and did not provide any nutritional benefit to perform critical daily tasks. You get a zero. The other end of the spectrum, consumed ideal food intake and maintained perfect adherence to diet or fasting. Every calorie was optimal and nothing was consumed that didn't contribute to health and nutrition, allowing for a sustained peak level of performance throughout the entire day. That's what you're aiming for.

• 1:41:52Dave Berke?

  And that's what the eminently qualified person does.

• 1:41:55Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 1:41:55Dave Berke?

  And that's why a five.

• 1:41:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:58Dave Berke?

  Not a lot of five is around there. Same thing with the, with the performance evaluation in the military. You know, it was that five was like, that dude is legit. And I look at that, I'm like, nope, that's not me. I'm not a five.

• 1:42:09Jocko Willink?

  Uh, personal development, next one. Intellectual fitness, time management, financial management, personal goals. You're going to get graded on each one of these. Uh, the intellectual fitness one, I'm going to read five. Cause I like this one. Listen, achieved a major breakthrough in understanding, grasped a concept that made significant impact to my life and my ability to impart knowledge and skills.

• 1:42:37Jocko Willink?

  You always funny about that. Dave, have I ever called you up and said, hey, or sent you a text? I sent you a text the other day that was an actual breakthrough in understanding, grasp a concept that made significant impact in my life. Right? That happens like once every, I don't know, three months to me that I actually do something where I go, oh.

• 1:42:57Dave Berke?

  Dude, it doesn't happen often, but those are really good days, man. Like that call, that text became a phone call, became a long phone call. Like those are good days, man. Those fives are, when they happen are so awesome. They're so legit.

• 1:43:12Jocko Willink?

  But they don't happen.

• 1:43:13Dave Berke?

  No, they don't. Hardly ever.

• 1:43:17Jocko Willink?

  Then you, you, you called, no, you called me the other day and it was maybe four or five days after we had this legit conversation about a major breakthrough. And you go, hey, you got a minute? And I go, oh damn. I'm like, this is the call from Dave. He's got the breakthrough coming at me. And it was a client call. You know, let me know what's going on with the client. I was like, I said, I said, I thought you had a, you know, something.

• 1:43:44Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. So that one's all about, um, you know, just personal development and getting better. The next one.

• 1:43:51Dave Berke?

  The fives are legit.

• 1:43:52Jocko Willink?

  The next one is professional development. The little definition productive, impactful, meaningful and lucrative professional life. Pursuit of and growth in a career field that provides financial security and freedom along with the personal fulfillment and satisfaction.

• 1:44:08Jocko Willink?

  Performance. Here's a five for performance. Outperformed all expectations, vastly exceeded requirements and set new standard for job performance. Completed all assignments ahead of schedule with a high degree of accuracy. Helped others complete their assigned task, considered the impact of work. Up, down and across the team and contribute, contributed fully to maximize it. That's a five though. It's gonna be tough to get. Gonna be tough to get.

• 1:44:42Jocko Willink?

  Here's a zero, performed work below the standard or did not work at all was counterproductive regarding individual and company-wide success. I'm gonna actually photocopy this and blow it up for Echo Charles.

• 1:44:54Dave Berke?

  Thanks.

• 1:44:54Jocko Willink?

  I'm just gonna set, you know, like a goal.

• 1:44:57Dave Berke?

  We also kinda set a baseline, you know, that zero, you know, you didn't do anything. And the five is pretty hard, but there's a little bit of baseline too, like what a one is. Cause a one on a scale of zero to five, not a great score.

• 1:45:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:09Dave Berke?

  But a one is probably what a lot of people are doing.

• 1:45:14Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:14Dave Berke?

  You know, one is, go, yeah.

• 1:45:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, here's one, completed, this is one, performance in your profession. Completed basic assigned tasks, identified areas for tasks where additional guidance, for additional, for additional guidance in order to complete assignments, but did not perform in a noteworthy manner. That's a lot. And I, and I think, I think when we talked about the Marine Corps.

• 1:45:39Dave Berke?

  Yes.

• 1:45:40Jocko Willink?

  The, the Marine Corps minimum, like when you, when you're below average, you're doing a decent, you're doing your job.

• 1:45:47Dave Berke?

  That's right.

• 1:45:48Jocko Willink?

  Doing your job is like the minimum and you're kind of a below average Marine.

• 1:45:53Dave Berke?

  This one is like, oh, that's what I do.

• 1:45:55Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:55Dave Berke?

  And to be the most basic qualification, like the lowest level of qualified, because you know, the, the stump I think says unqualified Marine. And that's why there's one of them, like there's not a lot of unqualified Marines out there. But everybody else, if they're qualified, you're a one.

• 1:46:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:10Dave Berke?

  You're just.

• 1:46:11Jocko Willink?

  You're doing your job.

• 1:46:12Dave Berke?

  Doing your job.

• 1:46:12Jocko Willink?

  You're doing your job, you're a one.

• 1:46:13Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:14Jocko Willink?

  You're doing your one.

• 1:46:15Dave Berke?

  And that's good to go, but if you're on the path to being the eminently qualified Marine or you have a long way to go, that re, this kind of re baseline, what the scoring system really was about, you're not getting threes and fours for doing your job. You get a one, you're gonna go above and beyond and you're gonna have to extend yourself in ways you didn't think you could to really improve that score over time.

• 1:46:35Jocko Willink?

  This is a scary thing to do to yourself. You know what just made me scared Echo Charles, you're gonna like this one. Cause it has to do with lifting.

• 1:46:42Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:42Jocko Willink?

  You know what I'm saying? How many days are you, you go in there, you look, you got it done and you're kind of proud that you got it done, right?

• 1:46:49Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:49Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. But it's like a one.

• 1:46:52Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:53Jocko Willink?

  Like you did, you went in and did your duty in the gym. You went, you lifted, you did whatever, you got a little mat caught, but you know.

• 1:47:00Jocko Willink?

  Right?

• 1:47:01Dave Berke?

  Yes.

• 1:47:01Jocko Willink?

  How often is it a one? What's a one for physical, developed, uh, physical?

• 1:47:07Jocko Willink?

  Physical fitness. Here's a one. Engaged in basic fitness, routine or activity.

• 1:47:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's pretty weak. I usually do usually do more than that.

• 1:47:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:19Jocko Willink?

  And then, okay, so to me, sounds like you, you know, you took like an aerobics class.

• 1:47:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, or like something you could do in the middle of like a barbecue or something like that.

• 1:47:29Jocko Willink?

  But two to four is engaged in intense physical activity and demanding exercise that increased overall fitness levels while addressing weaker areas. That's, that's you give yourself between two and four. I bet I get a lot of threes.

• 1:47:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:41Jocko Willink?

  I bet I get a lot of, I'm like, yeah, that was, you know, I got better.

• 1:47:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:45Jocko Willink?

  But also sometimes I'm maintaining some, it's two.

• 1:47:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. Here's the, I, I think like, well, in my specific case, and I'm sure other people like this too, where it's kind of a gift and a curse situation where that, yeah, one, to me, you might as well not even work out. Depending on how long you're, you're, you're putting out ones and zeros, but like a one is not worth the workout. We're not worth the mental energy, not worth the momentum of.

• 1:48:08Jocko Willink?

  What about just the discipline that you got it done?

• 1:48:11Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah.

• 1:48:11Jocko Willink?

  So I give some credit.

• 1:48:12Speaker 02

  There's my curse. Yeah, right there. To me, it's like, okay, but no, I don't think about that kind of stuff. Well, now I do not more, but I'm just saying routinely, no, not like, oh, the fact that I did it. I wish it played more of a part in my mind, put it that way. But it, when I go lift, it's, it's like three, four, sometimes five. Or why even lift kind of thing, but again, that's good because I get good workouts routinely. But the junk part is like, if I'm not in the mood to confront that three, four or five, it's gonna just be a zero, straight up. So I, I'm throwing up more zeros than maybe I should be. See what I'm saying? Did not work out at all.

• 1:48:51Jocko Willink?

  Yeesh.

• 1:48:52Speaker 02

  You know, those will present.

• 1:48:54Jocko Willink?

  Do you stretch? If you don't, if you're not, no, let me say this. If you're not feeling like, you don't feel like confronting a three, four or five, which is a good way of putting it. Cause let's face it, when you're staring at a, a four, because I got some more, some of my workouts, doesn't matter whether you want to put out or not. If you execute it, you're doing a five.

• 1:49:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:13Jocko Willink?

  Like if you go in there and do it, you're doing at least a 4.8, right? Is maybe you could hold something back, but it's just gonna be pain. It's just gonna be pain. So if you don't feel like confronting that, you go, well, I don't feel like confronting that, but I'm gonna go stretch and improve my mobility. At least you get a one.

• 1:49:30Speaker 02

  No, not worth the time.

• 1:49:32Dave Berke?

  In, in the words of Echo Charles, a one is not nothing.

• 1:49:36Speaker 02

  It's something.

• 1:49:37Dave Berke?

  And it's something.

• 1:49:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:49:38Dave Berke?

  And look, this, we spent, you know, we built this out, we use that model and try to come up with a human version of that. You know, this isn't designed to punish you, but it's a little bit of the recognition. Like if you just kind of get up, you get downstairs to the gym and you kind of knock out a workout. Hey, look, that's good, right? But you're grading yourself on this. That's also just a one. You just sort of did the basics, the, the, the baseline of what you needed to do. You didn't get better. You didn't improve. You didn't get faster. You didn't get stronger. You might've maintained. It's a hell of a lot better than a zero, but you also got to be honest with yourself. And we're just doing one of, of like 20 different categories. Those ones, as I look at those ones and I'm like, man, I do a lot of ones. And that keeps me, you know, that keeps me at a one.

• 1:50:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:50:22Dave Berke?

  And if I want that one to become anything else, there's a lot of, lot more work that needs to be there. And again, it, it's not, you shouldn't punish yourself for a one, but you got to recognize if that's what you're doing, guess what you are? You're a one. And you want to get better? You got to put in some work, some real work in any of these attributes. This is, we're talking right now, just one thing. That's true for humility. It's true for leadership. It's true for all these other things. A one is you coming up and you're doing your job. You're coming to work and you're doing your job. That's a one.

• 1:50:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that's good. That's clever to give it numbers like that too. Cause like, who wants to be a one? Like who, who wants to roll in, be like threw up a one today?

• 1:50:59Dave Berke?

  I'm a strong one. No. And who wants to admit that, that they've, what they've been doing is a one? Who wants to really look in the mirror and go, you know what, man? I've been cranking out a lot of ones.

• 1:51:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:51:08Dave Berke?

  And I'm not as good as I need to be.

• 1:51:10Speaker 02

  Yep. The ones, those ones don't add up. Put it that way too.

• 1:51:13Dave Berke?

  No.

• 1:51:13Speaker 02

  Where, and here's part of like the, I guess maybe my, it's partially an excuse really. Where it's like.

• 1:51:22Speaker 02

  Why even go out there? You know, why, out there meaning to the gym or whatever? Why even go to the gym if it's just gonna be a one? If I, if I can smell the one coming on, like, why even bother with that? Because what, what's that gonna do to my brain? Is it gonna get me a little bit more used to throwing up ones?

• 1:51:39Jocko Willink?

  How, how many times have you gone in to do a one, you end up with a three?

• 1:51:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, I mean, technically, I'm going in with the goal of a three. And then I get like a four or something like that. But it's always like a baseline, high level, high standard workout. That's, and that's why I used to skip workouts so much, cuz I'm like, man, I can't, I can't do it. If I had the mindset, oh, I can just go in and stretch and maybe warm up. Or if I ever had that mindset, it's like, bro, that's easy to make it in the gym. But then again, I guess, thinking about it more, that, that could just help you. Cuz you know how when you get in there?

• 1:52:11Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:12Speaker 02

  You're like, alright.

• 1:52:13Jocko Willink?

  I read something the other day, I think it was, you set up yourself up for three minutes of practice on guitar. Like, hey, you gotta practice three minutes a day. That's it. Three minutes. Tell me you can't find three minutes. And what they know, the power behind this is, if you get out your guitar and you get it in your hands and you, you know, pull out your guitar pick and you start strumming, it's gonna be at least seven minutes, right? It's gonna be 12 minutes. The hardest part was going, I don't feel like practicing for an hour right now. You don't need to practice for an hour. Practice for three minutes, and if that turns out to be 12, cool.

• 1:52:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, I guess like, if, but then I guess the, the other part of, of my little, maybe it's partially excuse, maybe it's legit, I don't know, but, it's like, I don't wanna get into that routine of setting low bars, you know, as a goal of a workout.

• 1:53:06Jocko Willink?

  You know what, I will say, here's what happens to me. I will be like sore. I'll have,

• 1:53:12Speaker 02

  Oh, that's a zero, that's a rest day right there.

• 1:53:14Jocko Willink?

  No, I'll have big doms. But what I'll do is I'll go in and be like, okay, maintenance day, maintenance routine, run the maintenance routine. I'll just do like some, I'll row or hit a, hit the aerosol bike for a few hundred calories or whatever. And then just, yeah, kind of take a, that's a, it's a one.

• 1:53:34Speaker 02

  Well.

• 1:53:35Jocko Willink?

  But it's not a zero.

• 1:53:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, but then again, if it's like, if you have DOMS and you need recovery, that's, DOMS is just an indicator that you need recovery. Kind, you know, there's more to it than that for sure. But I'm gonna simplify. It's a, you mean to indicate it, right? So if you for real believe, for real believe, not convinced yourself or, you know, made an excuse, but if you for a belief that you need recover or recovery, and you go in and just to get the blood flowing, get some stretch, some mobility stuff, whatever, that could wind up not being an exertion hard, hardcore workout, but literally achieving the goal of that workout. See what I'm saying? Cause if you do some hardcore workout when you need recovery.

• 1:54:09Jocko Willink?

  So you could get a, a four in recovery.

• 1:54:11Speaker 02

  You could get a four with a little.

• 1:54:13Jocko Willink?

  Mobility scenario.

• 1:54:14Speaker 02

  Technically, it seems like you could, yeah.

• 1:54:16Jocko Willink?

  All right. Uh, next section's character and leadership. And again, you know, the emotional controls in there, the zero for emotional control is lost control of emotions when interacting with people around me during a stressful encounter. Set back any progress toward controlling emotions. Actually, it should have been a low stress encounter, right? That would be the worst. You're in a low stress encounter and you get emotional. We'll have to change that. Because the other end of the spectrum is maintained, maintained emotions under duress in the most difficult situation possible. Cause that's true. Like that's, that you get credit for that. You get a five, things are going crazy, you maintain. Was able to immediately identify my own red flags, or those of people around me detach and make ideal decision to

• 1:55:00Jocko Willink?

  get the best possible outcome that otherwise would have been missed.

• 1:55:04Jocko Willink?

  The best possible outcome.

• 1:55:06Speaker 02

  That's good.

• 1:55:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. And that's under most difficult situation.

• 1:55:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz that's easy to follow up.

• 1:55:13Jocko Willink?

  You actually need your environment needs to help you get a five oh. If you're not dealing with stress, you're getting a five in the house.

• 1:55:18Dave Berke?

  Yeah, I mean, that's why the one is what the one is.

• 1:55:21Jocko Willink?

  Like, maintained control of my emotions in normal situations was aware of periods of heightened emotions that did not let them get out of control.

• 1:55:30Dave Berke?

  If you had a normal day and nothing really went on in your day, you didn't even have the chance for a five. So you get a one.

• 1:55:37Jocko Willink?

  You you get a one.

• 1:55:37Dave Berke?

  Yeah, and you talk about, hey, this is kind of, this is a scary thing. Like, the scary ones are the one, like, dude, that's most of my days. Well, yeah, guess what? You weren't in it even in a situation to respond like that. You did not have this overwhelming situation where your tons of emotions were coming out cuz you just had a regular, normal day. But you don't get credit for that either.

• 1:55:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, you know, it's cool. You add jujitsu to your day and all of a sudden you can get a two for sure.

• 1:55:59Dave Berke?

  You can.

• 1:56:00Jocko Willink?

  You can get a two for sure cuz you're gonna get emotional, like, there's gonna be stress moments. You get, you know, you're getting tapped out or whatever. Uh, that's character and leadership. Relationships is in there.

• 1:56:11Speaker 02

  That emotional one, though, that was a, that was a good little addition when you say the best possible outcome. Because, cuz let's face it, so some people can delude themselves with the emotional outbursts, you know, how, just kind of how you mentioned, like, some people, they do their little emotional tirade and then they're, they kind of feel solid, like, yeah, I probably looked pretty powerful in that moment. So they almost have this little sense of pride, but they ignore kind of the outcome, you know? They just, they, they focused too much, in my opinion, on how they felt at the moment and then they're kind of recalling that feeling and they, they kind of chalk it up as a little bit of a little success moment.

• 1:56:45Jocko Willink?

  They're giving themselves a five when they really didn't get the best possible outcome.

• 1:56:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz they saw some movie where it looked cool or whatever, so dang, I look like Christopher Rockin or whatever, whoever he looked like or whatever. Meanwhile, the outcome is all terrible. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, that's a good. I liked it.

• 1:57:03Jocko Willink?

  Cool. We'll leave it at that. Relationships, quality of time with your family, quality time with friends and coworkers. The next one's preparedness and safety. You know, did you train martial arts today? Did you do weapons training? Did you do fire safety emergency training? Did you get, connect with your neighborhood in your community? Here's a. Here's a, here's a score of two to four. What for martial arts was part of aggressive training and significant learning that advanced my ability for self-defense. Learned important new skills and techniques and made major improvement. I, I rarely hit that. Now, in the beginning, it's easier to hit that because you're learning more. But dang, like once someone's a black belt like Echo.

• 1:57:52Jocko Willink?

  Weapons training, let's see if I'm biased when I wrote these. Participated in aggressive training and significant learning that advanced my weapons proficiency and comfort. Acquired new equipment and skills that enhance self-confidence and ability with self-defense. No, actually, that's, that's, that's solid.

• 1:58:08Speaker 02

  Is that well-written?

• 1:58:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's solid.

• 1:58:11Speaker 02

  Glad to hear that.

• 1:58:12Jocko Willink?

  Did you write that?

• 1:58:15Jocko Willink?

  I'm trying to think of.

• 1:58:18Jocko Willink?

  I thought I might skew it, or I thought we might skew it towards.

• 1:58:24Jocko Willink?

  Like, hey, as long as you shot today, you're good. Like, as long as you've got rounds downrange.

• 1:58:31Speaker 02

  That's a, that's a one, you think?

• 1:58:33Jocko Willink?

  Well, here, engage in limited, here's a one in weapons training. Engaged in limited training to maintain proficiency, but took no steps towards acquiring needed weapons or advanced proficiency. That's, that means you got on the range and you still get just a one.

• 1:58:51Jocko Willink?

  You know, maybe dry fired, you still get a little bit of a one.

• 1:58:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying. What if you didn't go to the range, but you dry fired?

• 1:58:56Jocko Willink?

  This is what we're saying. It's hard to get. It's hard to win. It's hard to be a three, four, five.

• 1:59:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:05Jocko Willink?

  And then it goes on to.

• 1:59:06Speaker 02

  Why we explain this?

• 1:59:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Because it's really easy to be like, oh, yeah, you know what? I was shooting twice a month. Like, bro, twice a month doesn't get you there.

• 1:59:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:59:15Jocko Willink?

  No.

• 1:59:20Jocko Willink?

  Wrap up to kind of explain the evaluation and then what to do if you fall off the path. And this leads to.

• 1:59:29Dave Berke?

  I think this part about the evaluation, about how this works is actually kind of important to think about how you are going to approach that matrix we just talked about. And how you are going to assess yourself and what it really means to give yourself any of these grades and what's really going on there.

• 1:59:46Jocko Willink?

  Well, it says it is designed, is not designed just to grade yourself, but also so you know that you're trying, what you're trying to become. It requires humility and a brutally honest self-assessment. No one else is scoring you. Don't compare yourself to others. This is about your capacity compared to your performance. Oh, Echo Charles likes that. It's your capacity compared to your performance. It's you against you.

• 2:00:13Jocko Willink?

  Ask yourself how much effort you put into something and measure it against what you are capable of. The more effort you put into something, the more progress you will make.

• 2:00:24Jocko Willink?

  This is different from person to person. And different for yourself as time goes on. If you've never exercised before in your life and you walk a mile, you may have exerted yourself close to the limit. That might be a five. That same workout might be a one for someone who's been in the gym for years. It might even be a.

• 2:00:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it might even be a zero. But as you get better and improve that one mile walk, no longer represents your maximum capacity. So it no longer represents a five for you. As you move down the path towards an intimately qualified human, your capacity will increase. As a result, improving actually becomes more difficult over time. You have to work even harder and do more to make even the same amount or even less of an improvement. This system only works if you understand what you're capable of. And if you're honest about what you have done, being easy on yourself doesn't help you or the people in your life. You must commit. You must stay on the path. So yeah, we all know that. The stronger you get, the harder it becomes to get stronger.

• 2:01:23Jocko Willink?

  The better you get at jiu jitsu, the harder it becomes to get better at jiu jitsu, which is weird because there's a there's a ramp up session, even with working out and you don't think about this, but when someone just starts working out for a little while, they can't do really do the exercise. They got Doms every day and they're just not really making the gains. But then after a little while, they start going, oh, same thing with jiu jitsu. You start learning and all of a sudden you can process it. Like I think your optimum, I think where you're learning the most is probably when you're a blue belt. Do you think?

• 2:01:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, it depends on what you mean by what you're learning. So.

• 2:01:52Jocko Willink?

  You're learning the mo- most information is being absorbed.

• 2:01:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, the big strides.

• 2:01:57Jocko Willink?

  Big strides.

• 2:01:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think you're right. At a white belt, that's when you're learning the most moves. I'll tell you, I think that.

• 2:02:02Jocko Willink?

  But you can't assimilate them. Maybe it's the high end of white belt.

• 2:02:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I'm sure it's, it's around in that zone. Uh, in working out, it is a common thing. Well, I think in trainers or in the training community, that's a normal thing. It's called newbie gains. So you get gains in the beginning, like way more than towards the end, you know? So like if you're advanced lifter, bodybuilder, whatever, um, yeah, your gains come slowly. But the new guys, newbie gains.

• 2:02:27Jocko Willink?

  Newbie gains. That's what they call it.

• 2:02:29Speaker 02

  That's what, you know, I'm just saying it's, it's a thing.

• 2:02:36Jocko Willink?

  Next section, what do you do when you fall off the path?

• 2:02:41Jocko Willink?

  You can and will fall off the path. It happens to everyone. Sometimes we do it to ourselves. Sometimes life hits us with something we didn't see coming. People get sick, accidents occur. Things happen in the world we can't control and those things can push us off the path. But you can control how you react when you fall off, what you do to get yourself back on the path. It's up to you. The situation doesn't dictate what happens to you. You dictate the situation. You decide. When you fall off the path, ask yourself why? Why are you not doing the things you know you should? Do an unsparing self-assessment, identify corrective measures and ruthlessly implement those measures. Take action, get back on the path.

• 2:03:21Jocko Willink?

  For anything that affects your health or mind of your health, for anything that affects the health of your mind or body, see your doctor or a professional in the field. Right? Sometimes you gotta go to a mechanic. That's a doctor, that's a psychologist. This is not a time to rely on friends or family members. You need professional help, so get it. That being said, there are protocols to help get you back on the path. These are some protocols. And again, I talked about where these came from.

• 2:03:51Jocko Willink?

  Do, do, I'll do this one. I don't want to do them all, but I'll do this one. Break up. I don't even, I don't know why I'm doing this one, because there's like, you, you put out a video and everything of this one. Well, here's the, here's the, here's the clean version, right? Here's like, here's what you do. Break up. My relationship is over and I don't know what to do. Number one, detach. Your emotions are your enemy during a breakup. They will not enable you to make good decisions or make good choices. Of course, this will be hard. The core of relationships is built on emotions. So in order to detach from your emotions, take a step back. Look at the situation from someone else's point of view. You might think no one else understands, and you are right. They don't understand the emotions you have.

• 2:04:37Jocko Willink?

  But that means the emotions are not blinding them. Try to see that. If you have trouble detaching, go to step 1A. Step 1A. It might also help to let your emotions out, but do so in a way that does not affect the situation. Find a private place where you can scream, cry, or otherwise release your emotions. Try physically exerting yourself to get rid of the emotional aggression. Hit a punching bag, go for a run. B, repeat step 1A as needed. Gotta get those emotions out sometimes.

• 2:05:12Jocko Willink?

  That's a way to detach. Two, assess the person you have separated from and evaluate who they actually are. So this is why it's, you have to detach before you do this.

• 2:05:24Jocko Willink?

  Assess the person you have separated from and evaluate who they actually are. The truth is, that person is not who you thought they were. The person you cared about does not exist. The idea that this person was a trustworthy, faithful companion is not true. You created an ideal around their framework, but they do not actually exist. They have proven they do not exist by their actions. Do not dwell on what it was because it wasn't.

• 2:05:56Jocko Willink?

  Do not dwell on what it could have been because it couldn't. It was a lie. Which is this, you see so many, and I, I, I guess I'm gonna talk about it from a guy perspective, because in the teams, you'd get guys that would break up with the girl, and that's why I saw it over and over again, from the guy perspective. And that's what they, you know, but it was, she was so good, and it's, we could have, and it's always that, hanging on to this lie. And it's a lie. It's not true. That person doesn't exist. That girl that you thought you were gonna marry and everything's gonna be, no, no, not gonna work, because she didn't exist.

• 2:06:39Jocko Willink?

  Step number three, be thankful. Be thankful that this lie was uncovered now, instead of later, before you invested even more into that person. That person who you now realize was not who you thought they were. Be thankful that you found out, when you did, that this person is untrustworthy. Be thankful that you can now move forward. Oh, man, it's tough to tell, tough to tell that to the crying human.

• 2:07:07Jocko Willink?

  Step number four, wish them luck. Yes, perhaps it is a final conversation, perhaps it is a note, but wish them luck. They are going to need it. Do not harbor any ill feelings. Those ill feelings do you no good. Let them remember you, not as a spiteful vindictive slave to your emotions and whims, but as a good, mature person, ready to move on positively in the world. That's one of those things where, look.

• 2:07:39Jocko Willink?

  I'm gonna continue on before I get into this. Walk, step number five, walk away. You know this person is not who you wanted them to be and you can't change that, so walk away. Move on. Don't look back. Step number six, don't look back. Your mind will play tricks on you. You will lie to yourself, tell yourself that maybe it can work and maybe I was wrong. And if I can just try one more time, maybe he or she will change. No, that is not happening.

• 2:08:08Jocko Willink?

  They aren't going to change. And the fact of the matter is, the more you crawl back to them, the more you belittle yourself and push them further away. Don't do it. Walk away. Don't look back.

• 2:08:23Jocko Willink?

  And that's, that's the part that I was gonna kind of venture into is if you're in one of these situations where you're like, oh, if only I could say one more thing if I, and that is what drives people away. That's what they don't respect and they don't like. So the best possible thing you can do is say, hey, good luck. I'll see you later. Walk away and don't look back. The minute you look back and throw out the lifeline and beg for whatever, they, they, they, they wanna get rid of you even more. So the best possible thing you can do. The win-win move is walk away and don't look back. It's the win-win move.

• 2:09:02Jocko Willink?

  And then seven, get back on the path. Wake up early, work out, read, write, learn, play an instrument, train jiu-jitsu, eat, clean. Clean your room, clean your car, get ahead at work. When someone breaks your trust, when someone breaks our trust, we question ourselves. We think our judgment is bad because we put our faith in this person who hurt us. So how do you build that trust back with yourself? Look back and learn from the relationship. See the mistakes you made and the red flags you missed, then look for them next time around. Recognize that there are plenty of people out there in the world that are trustworthy and faithful. Go find one of them, move forward in that relationship with a clean slate. Don't bring baggage. So there's your protocol. And I think the humorous protocol, the original protocol was like, order Pete, you know,

• 2:09:46Jocko Willink?

  I made something up off the top of my head, but this is the legit protocol. And man, if you can execute this, it's hard to execute because people get all wrapped around there. They get wrapped around this thing so deep and so hard.

• 2:10:01Jocko Willink?

  So, but it's a protocol. It's a protocol. It's a way to handle these things. We got a way in here to handle death. A protocol for death. What do you do when someone dies? Here's the protocol. What do you do when you have some kind of financial problems? What's the protocol? What do you do? How do you handle it? What do you do when you have a betrayal of trust? Right? Because it's not always in a relationship like a, like a spouse or a girl, an intimate relationship that you have a betrayal of trust. Sometimes it can happen in a, in a work environment. Sometimes it can happen, uh, just with friends. So betrayal of trust, what do you do then? How do you handle it? What's the protocol? We got problems going on at work. What's the protocol? How do I handle it?

• 2:10:46Jocko Willink?

  What, what if I said or did something that hurt someone's feeling and I need to make it right? In other words, what if I need to make an apology? What's the protocol to apologize? How do we, some people go through their whole lives, they don't know how to apologize.

• 2:11:00Jocko Willink?

  How, what do I do when there's an accident or there's an illness? Like severe medical diagnosis. What do I do? How do I handle that? What's the protocol? What's the protocol for addiction?

• 2:11:16Jocko Willink?

  What do we do? How do we handle this?

• 2:11:22Jocko Willink?

  What's the protocol for trauma? I suffered a psychological trauma and I don't know how to deal with it. What do I do then? And again, look, these, these, these topics of trauma, these topics of addiction, look, that's why we say you might need to get professional help. In fact, you should. But even when you get professional help, you're going to see these protocols, protocols to follow.

• 2:11:45Jocko Willink?

  And then there's this last one, the unknown. What do I do when I don't know what to do? Something bad happened, I don't even know where to start. I'll go through this. This is the strategy protocol. Every scenario cannot be addressed. So this is the protocol for what to do when you don't know what to do. One, start by taking a step back, detach, take a breath and look around. Make sure you assess everything that is happening. Two, think about your possibl- think about what your possibilities are and what decisions you could make right now and what are the likely outcomes of those decisions?

• 2:12:23Jocko Willink?

  Three, write it down. What does success look like in this situation? How can you get there? How long should it take? Do you know anyone who can provide guidance or advice? Four, work the plan. Take action that moves you forward. Don't stay stagnant. Don't dwell. Take a small step towards what you think is the best decision. Not a giant step because you don't know exactly what is going on. This is a step that allows you to assess again before you decide on what to do next. Five, push forward and then pause and reassess again. Repeat and press forward to the point of friction. Press until you reach the point that you see a new opportunity or need to pull back and reassess again. Six, allow yourself room to maneuver.

• 2:13:07Jocko Willink?

  When it gets hard, don't surrender, don't give up, don't quit. Then you haven't failed. All it means is you need to regroup and reattach. You've learned, you've gained experience and you're still alive.

• 2:13:23Jocko Willink?

  There's gonna be things in life that you don't expect and you don't know what to do. And there's the protocol.

• 2:13:30Dave Berke?

  Yeah, the, the beauty of, of the protocols and we were writing them, it connects back to the very beginning is that even with death and illness, you are in control. Maybe not everything, maybe you're not in control of everything, but you have so much more control than you might give yourself credit for. And you have to take control of that situation. You are in control of how you react and how you respond. And running through those protocols is you being in control. And you talked about, hey, that's hard, walking away from the girl, the one, the one you know is the right one for you, but it turns out they're not. That's hard, but if you, if you can do that, if you can control that situation, think of how much more in your life you can control. And that's what those protocols are about is you being in control of these situations.

• 2:14:14Dave Berke?

  As much as you can.

• 2:14:16Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and I've, we've all said that as an echelon front to a bunch of our clients. You know, what do we do now? What do we do with COVID-19? We can't control this? We control how we respond. That's what we control. And you absolutely control how you respond.

• 2:14:31Jocko Willink?

  The book wraps up.

• 2:14:34Jocko Willink?

  You're on the path. You are seeing the results of your hard work and your efforts are paying off. Unmitigated daily discipline in all things is not just a saying. It's your life, your health is excellent, your work and personal performance is exceeding expectations. You are leading in all aspects of your life. So what now?

• 2:14:52Jocko Willink?

  Thank those who helped you along the way. Take stock in what you have achieved. Then go harder. Lead.

• 2:15:03Jocko Willink?

  Lead your family, your community, your country. Lead everyone and everything in your world. Lead others to the path. Show them the way. And you called me out on that. You said, hey, there's one line I just wrote. It's so good. And you said, go harder. And I was like, yes, I like it. And then it closes out unmitigated daily discipline in all things. It's the only way. We've got

• 2:15:31Jocko Willink?

  downloadable evaluation forms at jocko publishing.com/downloads.

• 2:15:39Jocko Willink?

  So you can take those forms and you can start filling them out for yourself. And

• 2:15:47Jocko Willink?

  there you go. So

• 2:15:50Jocko Willink?

  on 174, podcast 174, I said to think about where you're at. Are you really a five?

• 2:16:00Jocko Willink?

  Really? Or are you a two? Can you aim for a three or a four? Is there any quality that you can reach five on? It's a good question. Let's try.

• 2:16:14Jocko Willink?

  Let's try because we might not be able to reach five, but we can absolutely get better. We can absolutely continue to pursue the quest that never is going to end.

• 2:16:27Jocko Willink?

  Trying to become an eminently qualified human being and if you live that way, if you live trying to become an eminently qualified human being,

• 2:16:42Jocko Willink?

  what you'll end up doing is living an eminently honorable life.

• 2:16:49Jocko Willink?

  And a life eminently worth living.

• 2:16:57Jocko Willink?

  There you go.

• 2:17:02Jocko Willink?

  Anything else, Dave?

• 2:17:06Speaker 02

  Negative.

• 2:17:09Jocko Willink?

  Well, Echo Charles, you know what that means?

• 2:17:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:17:12Jocko Willink?

  Since it looks like we are attempting to head down the path.

• 2:17:18Jocko Willink?

  What do you got? What recommendations do you have that can help us? You know, proceed, shall we say?

• 2:17:27Speaker 02

  I've got a few. So first thing as always is jujitsu, although at this current exact moment in time, we're doing a lot less, if any,

• 2:17:40Speaker 02

  because we've got to stay safe because that's part of it too. You've got to stay safe. In fact, that's probably one of the things this whole thing is about. Being safe, safety. Yeah, prepare as safety of yourself and others. Unless this is how we're going to do it. All these things I'm about to say right now are all included in the path. Like their path, uh, what do you say, like worthy or inclusive, whatever?

• 2:18:03Jocko Willink?

  Path worthy and path inclusive. I would say you could say both.

• 2:18:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:18:06Jocko Willink?

  You can pick your, pick your pronoun.

• 2:18:08Speaker 02

  Yes, sir.

• 2:18:08Jocko Willink?

  Nope, that's not a pronoun. You can pick your wordage, pick your verbiage.

• 2:18:12Speaker 02

  Yes. So jujitsu when we can. Part of it for sure. You say martial arts.

• 2:18:19Speaker 02

  I feel like you were like fighting your pen back because you just wanted to write jujitsu, but you just gotta go martial arts.

• 2:18:24Jocko Willink?

  No, that's not necessarily, actually that's not true.

• 2:18:27Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:18:28Jocko Willink?

  Because jujitsu is a, is definitely really good, but you gotta learn that boxing, that Muay Thai and that wrestling.

• 2:18:34Speaker 02

  You can't get five by just limiting yourself to just jujitsu straight up.

• 2:18:40Jocko Willink?

  Totally.

• 2:18:41Speaker 02

  And being rigid to it. Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:18:43Jocko Willink?

  You got to do more.

• 2:18:45Speaker 02

  Yes, sir. Alright, well.

• 2:18:46Jocko Willink?

  But we are doing jujitsu.

• 2:18:47Speaker 02

  Yes, sir. Big time. It's, it includes jujitsu. Included but not limited to. We'll say that. Alright, so when you do, when you do jujitsu, you need a gi and a rash guard because these are the uniforms. So get the best gi, best rash guard from Origin. OriginMaine.com is where you can get all this stuff. So gis, rash guards, a bunch of other cool stuff on there. Also jeans. So getting Origin made jeans, American made denim, does improve the community around you.

• 2:19:22Jocko Willink?

  That is a good, very valid point.

• 2:19:24Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:19:24Jocko Willink?

  Very valid point. And right now it is April 21st, 2020. And there's, there's a pandemic going on. We at Origin, the Origin team has shifted to making face coverings is what they're officially called because we don't want to imply that they have the medical qualities that an N95 mask has on. But the government has recommended and medical professionals have recommended that people wear face covering. So we are making a massive amount of face coverings right now. So people that have ordered jeans, we actually shut down those lines right now.

• 2:20:09Jocko Willink?

  But we are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and we are ready to open the jeans line back up, the gi lines back up. And we'll be doing that shortly. So just check OriginMaine.com if you want a pair of jeans, if you want a pair of boots. We're there. We're making them. We had to do a little adjustment because of the demands of, of this pandemic put on America. So we made some adjustments, but.

• 2:20:37Jocko Willink?

  In the end, we're gonna make, we're gonna make American products. We're gonna make American-made jeans, gees, rash guards, T-shirts, the whole nine yards. So appreciate everyone's patience as we, you know, try and support America through this pandemic scenario.

• 2:20:58Dave Berke?

  Also supplementation. Keep you on the path, keep you in the game, big time. So what do we got? Molk, additional protein, in the form of a dessert, by the way. Discipline and Discipline Go. Essentially the same thing in different, what? Delivery methods.

• 2:21:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, yeah, it is essentially the same thing in different delivery methods.

• 2:21:21Dave Berke?

  That's for your brain.

• 2:21:22Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:23Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:24Jocko Willink?

  Discipline, Discipline Go, RTD, Ready to Drink, that's kind, is that a, that's like a, a term from that industry, right? Like you wouldn't say, hey, can you grab me an RTD? No, you'd say, grab me a can of Go.

• 2:21:38Dave Berke?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:21:40Jocko Willink?

  So, yeah, but, but in the industry, which I had to learn about, it's called RTD. Ready to drink, crack it open and drink it. So, yeah, we got all that. We got Molk, Warrior Kid Molk. We got Choco White Tea. And by the way, all these products, you can get them online at originmaine.com or you can go to Vitamin Shop. If you go to a Vitamin Shop in your AO, you can get some. What's your, what's your, your biggest, uh, uh, you, you look like you want to say something about?

• 2:22:07Dave Berke?

  Yeah, so I'm on the Molk train, everybody knows that. I, I would like to think that I'm well associated with Discipline Go. And I, I thought was, last time we said, I thought it was Ready to Deploy cans, because I grab them and then I go with them.

• 2:22:20Jocko Willink?

  Oh, check.

• 2:22:21Dave Berke?

  But I'm on another train right now. I don't know if I'm supposed to be announcing this train, but I'm on the Cold War train.

• 2:22:27Jocko Willink?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:22:28Dave Berke?

  So that cannot go unstated that the, that supplement, the Cold War supplement right now.

• 2:22:34Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:34Dave Berke?

  Is, I would say a requirement right now and something that is part of my current repertoire.

• 2:22:39Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, well, especially, you know, a month ago, we're traveling all the time and I was, I was at ground zero.

• 2:22:47Dave Berke?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:47Jocko Willink?

  For, I did a gig in San Francisco, Seattle and New York, like the three first kind of areas where the pandemic broke out. But, you know, also in every one of those places, places shaking between a thousand and 2,000 people's hands.

• 2:23:04Dave Berke?

  Totally.

• 2:23:06Jocko Willink?

  In each one of those places, traveling on an airplane with a bunch of other people in between those places. So yeah, you gotta have that immune system engaged. Get your Cold War on.

• 2:23:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I feel like Cold War is more of a tank than a train. You see what I'm saying?

• 2:23:21Jocko Willink?

  I do.

• 2:23:22Speaker 02

  Cause yeah.

• 2:23:23Jocko Willink?

  I look at like protective armor. Yeah. So maybe tank. Yeah, it could be there.

• 2:23:28Speaker 02

  Does Cold War tank, does that even sound like a thing though? Cause malt train sounds like a thing.

• 2:23:35Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and D plane kinda sounds like something too.

• 2:23:38Speaker 02

  Brother, D plane all day, man.

• 2:23:39Jocko Willink?

  It sounds like something you tried to implement.

• 2:23:42Speaker 02

  Oh, it's implemented. Put it that way.

• 2:23:44Jocko Willink?

  Indeed.

• 2:23:45Speaker 02

  Alright, nonetheless, alright, cool. Yes, these are all things approved by the path. Hundred percent, hundred five percent, really? Let's face it. Also, we have a store. It's called Jaco Store. It's where you can get, uh, items to represent while you're on the path. In quarantine or not. I'm saying as time goes on, you see what I'm saying? Anyway, we got shirts on there, uh, hoodies, more rash guards. Uh, discipline equals freedom, you know, all these goods, all this good stuff, uh, hoodies, hats, truckers hats, beanies. Flex it, all that stuff.

• 2:24:19Jocko Willink?

  The boxes. Forgot about the boxes. The boxes are, we put, we put, I put together a bunch of boxes for the live gigs I was doing. The live gigs got canceled, so we got a bunch of these boxes. We just reassembled, I, I put some of them up there and they sold out. So we just assembled some more of them. So if you wanna get those boxes, there's a Warrior Kid box and there's a Def Core box.

• 2:24:44Speaker 02

  They're like, um.

• 2:24:45Jocko Willink?

  They have the flags. You're gonna Warrior Kid flag, you need to just be equals freedom flag in there. Then they got a bunch of other cool things.

• 2:24:50Speaker 02

  It's like a little toolkit for the path. That's what it is.

• 2:24:54Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:54Speaker 02

  That's what it felt like when I got mine.

• 2:24:56Jocko Willink?

  I like where you're at.

• 2:24:56Speaker 02

  Yes, sir. Uh, yes, we have those all on JacoStore.com. Also subscribe to this podcast if you haven't already. Cause it's important in many ways. Arguably.

• 2:25:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, real arguably. And I'll tell you what, if you're two hours and whatever many minutes deep into this thing and you haven't subscribed.

• 2:25:17Jocko Willink?

  Well, I don't know. I really don't understand you as a person. We got some other podcasts. We got The Thread, which is with Daryl Cooper, martyr made. So you can check that one out. We got Grounded Podcast, which is a podcast about jujitsu and life. The Thread is about, The Thread is about the threads between history and the past and how they tie into what's happening right now in the world. So that's been cool. The Warrior Kid Podcast,

• 2:25:48Jocko Willink?

  for the Warrior Kids, and then we also, from the Warrior Kid Podcast, we got some Warrior Kid Soap, YoungAiden, IrishOaksRanch.com. He's making soap. He's making killer soap. That's the name of the soap. And if you get that kind of soap, it will definitely give you the capability to

• 2:26:08Jocko Willink?

  stay clean.

• 2:26:11Speaker 02

  Which is part of the path too, by the way. Don't be all dirty. I guess you've got to be willing to get dirty, but not stay dirty. You're gonna stay clean. That's why you're gonna stay, but with varying levels of capability to endure dirt and germs. Trying to put it into context here. Anyway, also, we have a YouTube channel for video, video version of this podcast and other, and excerpts as well. This turns out to be a cool way, I think, to listen to the podcast, be more immersed in the conversation, I think.

• 2:26:42Jocko Willink?

  You can see what Good Deal Dave looks like.

• 2:26:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, man. Good-looking guy, at the end of the day, for sure. So yeah, YouTube channel, Choco Podcast, official now. Checkmark, you know, the checkmark they give you when you're fit. Just so that you can recognize the real one from the imposters ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:26:58Jocko Willink?

  It's not, uh, Choco Motivation Channel.

• 2:27:07Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, and we also have Psychological Warfare, iTunes, Google Play, and MP3 platforms, if you want to check that out. We have Flipside Canvas, Dakota Meyer, making cool things to hang on your wall that will keep you on the path. Got a bunch of books. Leadership Strategy and Tactics Field Manual. Dave Berke, you were the one of the first people to read that. You might have even been the first person to read that. So you get some credit there.

• 2:27:27Dave Berke?

  Appreciate that. That book, that should be an RTD field manual, ready to deploy. That thing needs to be at the ready anytime. Immediate reference, any issue you got, that thing stays with you. It does not go on the shelf. That thing's ready to deploy.

• 2:27:41Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, that's, I like it. It's just about everything I get asked, I can answer it in that book.

• 2:27:48Dave Berke?

  Bro.

• 2:27:49Jocko Willink?

  So, pretty straightforward. Also got Way the Warrior Kid, one, two, and three. Are your kids still reading that book?

• 2:27:57Dave Berke?

  They are reading that book. We did number three, finished number three last night, last chapter with Matt last night. Didn't want to go back to one.

• 2:28:04Jocko Willink?

  Was that his first time getting through it?

• 2:28:04Dave Berke?

  No. Negative, bro. Negative. But they're ready for four. They're super pumped because you had some new Warrior Kid podcasts come out recently. So they're stoked about that.

• 2:28:15Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, Johnny Kim was on one.

• 2:28:16Dave Berke?

  Yes.

• 2:28:18Jocko Willink?

  Because who doesn't, what kids not, what kids not say, I want to be a Navy SEAL, a doctor, and an astronaut? Whatever. Like, every kid. What else could he add on there? I guess he needs to be a fireman.

• 2:28:31Dave Berke?

  Firefighter, yeah.

• 2:28:32Jocko Willink?

  A firefighter. Uh, what else? Oh, and a pro baseball player, right? Needs to knock those out. Johnny Kim, get busy. Come on, bro. Uh, so we also have Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. Oh, Mikey and the Dragons, don't forget about Mikey and the Dragons. There's a bunch of police officers right now around the country that are doing this kind of reading of Mikey and the Dragons. I've seen a bunch of them, so I appreciate them all spreading the word. Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual. Extreme Ownership and the Dichotomy of Leadership. The Leadership Lessons From Combat That I Wrote With My Brother Leif Babbin. So check those out if you haven't gotten them. Echelon Front is our leadership consultancy. What we do is solve problems through leadership. Go to Echelonfront.com. Yes, we are live.

• 2:29:17Jocko Willink?

  Yes, we are engaged right now. We're doing digitally. How's that working out for you, Dave?

• 2:29:23Dave Berke?

  Awesome. So legit. It has been awesome.

• 2:29:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it's, it's, uh, instead of us flying out and spending five hours in an airplane to get to talk to you for two hours or three hours. No, we're there two hours or three hours. We're face to face with you on the internet. We're answering your questions. And since we didn't waste five hours coming out there, we're going to do it again with you next week and the week after that. So it's been a really cool transition. And I'm sure, you know, we'll go back when, when the pandemic is over, we'll go back and we'll do live stuff. But man, if we aren't, we are completely, we are having such, such an incredible impact that we weren't able to achieve before because we were always logistically moving around. And now it's like, no,

• 2:30:06Jocko Willink?

  we're right here. You know, I was, I was talking to a client today and I was doing an example of what it's like when the subordinates are blaming up the chain of command. And so the, the woman that asked the question, you know, and I was saying, I was pointing right at the camera and I was right in the camera's face and I'm like yelling and it's just, if, if, if that wasn't on a, if that wasn't on the internet, you know, she would have been whatever 10 rows back and I would have been, you know, there would have been a disconnect. There's a little bit of a disconnect. No, I'm right. You know, and I'm, I'm just, you know, I'm joking around. I go, this is what happens when you don't tell the team what's going on.

• 2:30:46Jocko Willink?

  They start saying, you don't understand. You don't give us the support we need. And I'm doing it right in the camera. It's, it's, you know, it's funny. I'm just having fun with it. But that's like an effect you don't get. You don't get that live. So it's been very cool. And the other thing that we've really. Kind of, kind of just gone after right now and gotten after is EF Online. So EF Online, which was, which was a very static platform of, hey, you can come on here. You can go through these courses and you know, we got great feedback on the courses. But right now, since we're all, since we all have this opportunity to step up, we're doing this live stuff on a, well, we're doing it three times a week right now. We're stepping it up.

• 2:31:30Jocko Willink?

  And what's great about it is once again, look, there's 200 people or 150 or 100 people that are sitting on the internet during a call and people are, can ask a question right there on the spot. Can say, Jaco, I got this, you know, I got a subordinate that's doing this. What do you think I should do? Okay. Boom. Here you go. Oh, well, explain, give me some more detail on that. So it's like on the podcast, you do Q and A. We do Q and A. I read the question. But that's just my interpretation of the question. There's no feedback loop. So when live EF Online, it's like, hey, explain what you mean. Explain the relationship you have. Give me some expands, give me some, some more commentary on what it is you guys are trying to achieve.

• 2:32:13Jocko Willink?

  So you get these detailed questions going on. And by the way, you've got a bunch of people there. We're all listening to each other and everybody is going, oh yeah, I had that happen. Oh, here's another way to handle it. So it's been phenomenal. Go to EFOnline.com if you want to check that out. We got the Leadership Primer. We got Immediate Action Drills. We got Q and As going on. So check that out. The muster, we are still going to go live at some point. The one in Phoenix canceled, but September 16th and 17th in Dallas, Texas, or sorry, Phoenix, Arizona, September 16th and 17th, and Dallas, Texas, December 3rd and 4th. Many of the people that were going to come to Orlando, which was canceled, just moved to either Phoenix or Dallas.

• 2:32:59Jocko Willink?

  So those are going to sell out quicker than normal. Everything we've ever done has sold out. So go to ExtremeOwnership.com for details if you want to come to one of those events. And we have EF Overwatch and EF Legion. So taking veterans that understand the principles we talk about and placing them either at, in executive positions through EF Overwatch or frontline leaders through EFLegion.com, EFOverwatch.com.

• 2:33:27Jocko Willink?

  Come and find the leaders you need to help your team win in those locations. And if you're a vet, go to EF Legion and sign up. Go to EF Legion, we got companies calling us right now that need to hire. Look, there's a lot of companies that are laying people off. There's also a lot of companies that business has gone through the roof that are hiring right now. Go to EFLegion.com so we can get you out there and the world can know about you that are looking to hire good people. And if you haven't had enough of my droning, overbearing voice, or you haven't had enough of Echo's digressive ramblings, or Dave's hyper enthusiastic viewpoints, then you can

• 2:34:09Jocko Willink?

  get more of us on the interwebs, on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Line the Faisen Book. Dave is at David R. Burke, B E R K E. Echo is at Echo Charles, and I am at Jocko Willink. And to everyone that's out there right now, overseas, in uniform, protecting our great nation, thank you. And to police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, Border Patrol, Secret Service, thank you for protecting us here at home. And also to all the doctors and nurses and medical personnel that are on the front lines every day right now, risking disease to fight disease, thank you for stepping into the breach.

• 2:34:55Jocko Willink?

  And to everyone else out there, the path is hard, and it is filled with obstacles, and you may never get to the top. In fact, you probably won't.

• 2:35:11Jocko Willink?

  But keep striving, keep pushing, keep maintaining unmitigated daily discipline in all things by going out there every single day and getting after it.

• 2:35:27Jocko Willink?

  And until next time, this is Dave and Echo and Jaco. Out.