MURDEROUS MINDS: Murder in Las Vegas Pt. 1

Robert Telles was a rising political star in Las Vegas—until journalist Jeff German exposed the truth. In Part 1, we uncover Telles’s history of manipulation, sexual misconduct, and the paranoia that turned one reporter into a threat he couldn’t ignore. Killer Minds is a Crime House Original Podcast, powered by PAVE Studios. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. For ad-free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House+ on Apple Podcasts. Don’t miss out on all things Killer Minds! Instagram: @killerminds https://www.instagram.com/killerminds/ | @Crimehouse https://www.instagram.com/crimehouse/ TikTok: @Crimehouse https://www.tiktok.com/@crimehouse Facebook: @crimehousestudios https://www.facebook.com/crimehousestudios X: @crimehousemedia https://x.com/crimehousemedia YouTube: @crimehousestudios https://www.youtube.com/@crimehousestudios

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Hi, everyone. Before today's episode, there's another show I want to tell you about. It's called What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Plus, Connor's infectious energy that'll make you realize history is the most fascinating thing on earth. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen, or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.

• 0:36Speaker 01

  This is Crime House.

• 0:41Vanessa Richardson?

  Investigative journalism may be one of the most essential professions out there. It's especially important when it comes to exposing corruption, because sometimes we need people who are outside the system, who are dedicated to exposing the truth, and who aren't afraid to stand up to power. From Upton Sinclair's expose on meatpacking in Chicago in the early 1900s, to Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein discovering the Watergate scandal, all the way to Ronan Farrow exposing Harvey Weinstein's predatory hold over Hollywood, countless journalists have helped bring meaningful change to society. Jeff German was one of

• 1:23Vanessa Richardson?

  those reporters. For almost 45 years, he covered massive stories in the Las Vegas area, shedding light on government corruption and organized crime. And in 2022, he learned about a scandal brewing around a low-level politician named Robert Telles. Even though he'd covered much bigger stories in his day, Jeff approached this one with the same dedication and grit as all the others. He never expected that this story would be his last.

• 2:10Vanessa Richardson?

  The human mind is powerful. It shapes how we think, feel, love, and hate. But sometimes it drives people to commit the unthinkable. This is Killer Minds, a Crime House original. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

• 2:25Tristin Engels?

  And I'm Dr. Tristin Engels. Every Monday and Thursday, we uncover the darkest minds in history, analyzing what makes a killer.

• 2:33Vanessa Richardson?

  Crime House is made possible by you. Please rate, review, and follow Killer Minds. To enhance your listening experience with ad-free early access to each two-part series and bonus content, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. Today, we begin our deep dive into Robert Telles, a disgraced politician from the Las Vegas area. In the spring of 2022, investigative reporter Jeff German exposed Robert for fostering a toxic work environment and allegedly having an inappropriate relationship with one of his employees. In the wake of Jeff's expose, Robert lost his reelection bid for Clark County Public Administrator.

• 3:17Vanessa Richardson?

  But rather than change his ways and try again next time, Robert focused on the man he blamed for his troubles and killed him in cold blood.

• 3:29Tristin Engels?

  As Vanessa takes you through the story, I'll be talking about things like Robert's pattern of sexual harassment throughout his life, his need for control and dominance, and his refusal to admit mistakes.

• 3:41Vanessa Richardson?

  And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a killer?

• 3:52Vanessa Richardson?

  When you think of political dynasties, names like Kennedy, Clinton, or Bush probably come to mind. But if you look around the United States, there are hundreds of smaller families that play a massive role in their communities. The Telles family was one of them. Based largely in El Paso, Texas, the Telles family first came to prominence in 1957, when Raymond L. Telles became the first Mexican-American mayor of a major US city. Throughout the years, many of Raymond's relatives and descendants held political offices in and around El Paso. And when his grandson, Robert Telles, was born on October 27, 1976, he was expected to do the same.

• 4:37Vanessa Richardson?

  But for all the family's success, they were also susceptible to corruption. Multiple members of the Telles clan got in trouble while they were in office. Robert's grandfather was caught illegally bringing a woman from Costa Rica to work for him and then paying her below minimum wage. Years later, Robert's father, who sat on the El Paso City Council, was caught in a bribery scandal. It's not clear how Robert felt about all this, but when he graduated high school in 1995, he decided to stray from the family legacy and follow his own path.

• 5:15Tristin Engels?

  When someone comes from a family with a known reputation, especially in politics, there's often an unspoken or very loudly spoken pressure to carry the torch or the legacy. When we talk about a legacy like this, what we're really talking about is psychological inheritance. It's not just the name, the career, and the connections, but the expectations that someone like Robert would be inheriting. Some choose to lean into this pressure because it's familiar and it's respected and it comes with built-in opportunities and it reinforces family bonds as well as identity. But it also might simply feel right for them. But for some, especially those whose family name is clouded in corruption like this or hypocrisy, they choose to break away from it or they try to break away from it.

• 6:00Tristin Engels?

  But breaking away doesn't always mean freedom. If they aren't consciously aware of any negative or maladaptive values, patterns, or beliefs that they were taught from their family in the first place, then they're still at risk of repeating the same.

• 6:15Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, what sort of impact could the family's history of corruption have?

• 6:19Tristin Engels?

  Well, for Robert, it could create personal and social alienation, for one. If his family's political actions have actively caused harm against the communities, and that can alienate Robert, or he could become a secondary target. Conversely, he likely learned early on that these positions come with power, authority, and a lot of opportunities and beliefs. For example, he watched his grandfather bring a woman illegally from Costa Rica and then paid her very little. So he could have learned a belief and a value regarding women simply from that. And based on how he views that, these beliefs and these values are likely to follow him, even if he pursued something other than politics. And that can be the blueprint for a distorted moral compass.

• 7:02Vanessa Richardson?

  Well, as with a lot of young people, Robert's life after high school was full of ups and downs. He got an IT job in Denver, Colorado, but money was still tight. So in 2001, 21-year-old Robert took a part-time seasonal job working at a local Kmart. There, he met a woman named Tanya Melendrez. The two of them hit it off, and after less than a year of dating, they got married. A couple of years later, they moved to Las Vegas, where Robert got a job repairing air conditioners. Still, Robert wanted more out of life. He was working towards an online degree in business administration and planned to go to law school. But more than that, he was ready to follow in his family's footsteps and get into local politics.

• 7:48Vanessa Richardson?

  It's not clear what led to his decision, but politics was in his blood, and he seemed ready to embrace it. However, Robert's growing ambition was a point of contention between him and Tanya. She didn't want all the attention that came with being a politician's wife. But Robert wasn't willing to budge when it came to his dreams. So in July of 2008, she and Robert got divorced, just a few months after their daughter was born. By all accounts, the split was amicable. Tanya stayed in the area and they were committed to co-parenting their daughter. But Robert was ready to move on.

• 8:26Vanessa Richardson?

  In 2010, 34-year-old Robert got remarried to a woman named Mary Ann Ramirez Ismael. There's not a lot of information out there on her. It seems like she fully supported his decision to get into politics. Because shortly after they got married, Robert put his plan into action. He enrolled in law school at the University of Las Vegas, Nevada. Like his relatives, Robert quickly found success and controversy. In 2012, he was elected as president of the Student Bar Association. But he quickly abused that position by allegedly making inappropriate sexual advances

• 9:06Vanessa Richardson?

  towards a fellow student at a party, despite the fact that he was a married man with a family. Instead of taking accountability, Robert tried to discredit the accusations. And although he was ultimately removed from his position, he was allowed to continue as a student. He graduated in 2014 and passed the bar in 2015 when he was 38. Before he turned his attention to politics, though, Robert decided to get some practical experience. Shortly after graduation, he opened his own firm called Accolade Law. He mostly focused on estate planning and probate cases, which involved managing a person's assets after they passed.

• 9:48Vanessa Richardson?

  And, once again, he reportedly used his position to make unwanted sexual advances. One of his paralegals accused him of sexual harassment, and a client claimed Robert sent her pictures of his penis and videos of him masturbating. In both instances, neither woman filed legal action.

• 10:08Tristin Engels?

  So not everyone who sends unsolicited, explicit content, or sexually harasses people, becomes violent. But this wasn't an isolated incident. So this cannot be excused as ignorance, or confusion, or misread signals. It's a pattern, and this already indicates a lot. Firstly, he comes from a powerful family, and he himself is already using power dynamics to exploit and harass his employees. And he started that when he was president of the Student Bar Association. It's abusive behavior, and that kind of behavior is learned. Second, it's entitlement and a need for power, and those are at the root of sexual harassment. And as a result, they often respond to rejection or humiliation with retaliation.

• 10:52Tristin Engels?

  It's so prevalent that we have civil employment laws in place to protect people. And repeatedly crossing personal, social, and even legal boundaries is about control. And when control is threatened, people can escalate. This behavior also indicates poor impulse control and a lack of empathy, which are two psychological conditions for violence.

• 11:14Vanessa Richardson?

  Meanwhile, Robert was making the political connections he needed to get his foot in the door. After starting his firm, he handled a few probate cases for John Cahill, the Clark County Public Administrator. Cahill's job was to manage the estates of people who die and have nobody else to take on their assets. It was not a major political office, by any means, but Cahill was well-liked enough to win three elections in a row, and he was on the search for a successor. By 2018, Cahill was ready to call it quits after 12 years in office. He handpicked Robert to run in his place. And as a Democrat in a reliably blue county, Robert easily won. In January 2019,

• 11:58Vanessa Richardson?

  42-year-old Robert officially began his four-year term as the new Clark County Public Administrator. He seemed energized by the opportunity, ready to reform and modernize the office. There was a massive backlog of cases, and Robert was ready to take drastic measures to fix that. But from the moment he stepped foot into that office, things started to go wrong. And Robert Telles was the common denominator in all of it.

• 12:34Vanessa Richardson?

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• 13:50Speaker 03

  Can't switch off at night? Give your curious mind somewhere peaceful to wander. I'm Simon Mettacks, host of Sleepy History. Join me for lost cities and ancient mysteries, told slowly and calmly, to help you drift off. And if you miss the ending, oh, that's rather the idea. Find Sleepy History in your podcast app, and try an episode tonight.

• 14:22Vanessa Richardson?

  In January 2019, 42-year-old Robert Telles took office as the new Clark County Public Administrator in Las Vegas, Nevada. His job was to manage the estates of people who hadn't named beneficiaries in their wills. And although Robert had impressed his predecessor, John Cahill, the feeling wasn't mutual. Robert thought the office, with about a dozen full-time employees and 20 part-time workers, was slow and inefficient, and right away, he found himself at odds with longtime employees like 60-year-old Rita Reed.

• 14:59Vanessa Richardson?

  Rita had worked in the Public Administrator's Office since 2007. She served as the de facto second-in-command and was excited by Robert's enthusiasm and fresh ideas at first. But their working relationship didn't get off to a good start. Their first meeting was supposed to be with the accounting firm that managed the department's finances, but apparently there was some sort of miscommunication. Robert didn't know they were coming and was left unprepared. According to Rita, he blew up at her, and that over-the-top reaction quickly became commonplace. At one point, he reprimanded her for waiving a $10 fee for a family who couldn't afford it.

• 15:41Vanessa Richardson?

  On Robert's end, he said he was frustrated at the policies Rita had implemented during her time there. He thought they were confusing and made it harder to close cases, which is why, about a month into his term, Robert basically took all of Rita's responsibilities away from her. Speaking loudly enough for everyone in the office to hear, he told Rita that all her direct reports would now report to him instead. Moving forward, her only job would be to handle the paperwork for new cases.

• 16:14Tristin Engels?

  So we're already seeing an escalation of behaviors in response to perceived humiliation or rejection, and this is retaliation. Robert is launching a pattern of harassment against Rita that appears fueled by resentment, misogyny, and anger. If this response was to a miscommunication, his reaction is not just wildly disproportionate, but it seems like he perceived this miscommunication as an intentional threat to him personally, and that's similar to an injury to his ego. It's as if he expected to go into this job with full obedience and instant admiration of his employees simply because of who he is and how powerful he views himself. He's needing to exert dominance and control, and this is consistent with individuals who have narcissistic traits.

• 16:59Tristin Engels?

  And just for clarification, I've never met Robert, nor have I evaluated him, so this is for educational and entertainment purposes only, and it's not a formal diagnosis.

• 17:09Vanessa Richardson?

  In Robert's mind, his abrasive managerial style was getting results. The office closed cases more quickly and at a higher volume. Plus, he was able to cut down on costs, particularly by cracking down on overtime pay that many veteran employees like Rita were receiving. But to get those results, he made some questionable decisions. Robert ruled the office with an iron fist. He banned the use of cellphones at work and even prohibited his employees from speaking to each other during the day.

• 17:41Tristin Engels?

  This is another example of power dynamics because what he's trying to do is alienate and isolate his employees from one another, and that's by design. That's intended to control and to maintain obedience among his employees.

• 17:55Vanessa Richardson?

  One of those employees was an estate coordinator named Alicia Goodwin. Like Rita, Alicia had been working in the Public Administrator's Office for a while, and by all accounts, she was a stellar employee and was dedicated to growing her career. And she was excited to continue that progress under Robert. But it didn't take long for that to change. Robert was described as "very touchy with his female employees", and Alicia was apparently no exception. According to her, one day Robert got uncomfortably close to her in the elevator and said she smelled good. Alicia tried to brush it off, especially because their relationship seemed to be solid otherwise. And Robert was giving her a lot of opportunities.

• 18:40Vanessa Richardson?

  At some point early in his tenure, Alicia went with Robert to tour a property their office was managing. As they chatted, Alicia talked a bit about her background and how she was a descendant of Mormon pioneers on her mom's side. She didn't think much of it, but after that day, he basically stonewalled her at work. He stopped calling her into meetings with the other estate coordinators and left her out of important discussions. Alicia was confused. She asked around to see if she did anything wrong. And she learned from another employee that Robert had a vendetta against what he called the "Mormon mafia". He felt the Mormon community was running the county.

• 19:22Vanessa Richardson?

  Because of Alicia's background, he no longer trusted her, and he was taking it out on her in more ways than one.

• 19:31Vanessa Richardson?

  In addition to icing her out, he also piled unreasonable expectations on her. In August 2020, Robert gave Alicia 10 cases to review in the ridiculously short span of two hours. And when he went over her work, he audibly groaned and made snide comments, loud enough for everyone in the office to hear. By that point, the situation had become unbearable. Around this time, Alicia filed a formal complaint against Robert with County Human Resources. But since Robert was an elected official, they said there wasn't much they could do. At this stage, they didn't feel like the complaint merited further investigation,

• 20:11Vanessa Richardson?

  which meant Robert was free to continue his inappropriate behavior. This included a very questionable relationship with one of his subordinates, a woman named Roberta Lee Kennett.

• 20:25Vanessa Richardson?

  Alicia, Rita Reed, and several other workers noticed that Robert and 42-year-old Roberta, who were both married, had become unusually close during the early stages of the COVID pandemic. They frequently had lunch together and spent a lot of time behind closed doors. But it wasn't just that. Alicia, Rita, and the others also noticed a suspicious pattern emerging. They realized that Robert and Roberta had a subtle tell. On certain days, Roberta wore a skirt that was shorter than usual. When she did, she and Robert would leave through different exits at the end of the workday, but their cars would head in the same direction. The employees wondered if Robert and Roberta were going to meet

• 21:10Vanessa Richardson?

  somewhere for a romantic tryst. A few of the workers ended up following them to a parking garage, where they captured footage of Robert and Roberta sitting very close to each other in the backseat.

• 21:23Tristin Engels?

  Robert's pattern is targeting women that he has access to and authority over because that lowers the risk of rejection and it makes it harder for them to say no. It's opportunistic exploitation and power dynamics because, like you said, he's an elected official. There's not much that can be done, which likely emboldens him even more. Robert having an alleged affair with an employee is his way of seeking validation and he's specifically targeting women who work for him because he already views them as beneath him. So to him, they are less likely to challenge him, they need him for their livelihoods, and more importantly, it feeds his need for admiration.

• 22:01Vanessa Richardson?

  Around the same time Alicia Goodwin made her complaint to county HR, Rita Reed reached out to someone else to discuss her concerns about Robert and Roberta Lee Kennett. She spoke to deputy county manager Jeff Wells. Wells was the county government's liaison to the public administrator's office and seemed like a good person to talk to about this potentially inappropriate relationship. But Rita wasn't ready to blow the whistle yet. She just told Wells that she had some serious information to share and that it would require an investigation. But before she said anything else, she wanted to make sure she'd be protected. However, Wells was noncommittal.

• 22:43Vanessa Richardson?

  According to Rita, he didn't seem all that interested in learning more. Instead, he just asked her how close she was to retirement, meaning he wanted to know how long it would be until this problem went away. But Rita, Alicia, and their coworkers were determined to hold Robert accountable. When he announced he was running for reelection in early 2022, they decided one of them had to run against him. That job fell to Rita Reed.

• 23:15Vanessa Richardson?

  Even though Rita had over a dozen years of experience under her belt, beating Robert would be hard, so they asked their old boss, John Cahill, for help. But instead of giving them tips on fundraising or how to handle an election, Cahill helped them go to the press. If Rita was going to win, the public had to know the truth about Robert. So Cahill reached out to some journalists to see if they wanted to take on the story. A lot of them weren't interested in the inner workings of a small political office, but they pointed to one reporter who was. A guy who'd spent decades rooting out corruption in Las Vegas, from local government to organized crime.

• 23:57Vanessa Richardson?

  Someone who wouldn't be afraid to stand up to power, no matter how big or small. His name was Jeff German, and he would be Robert Telles's downfall.

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• 24:44Speaker 05

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• 25:17Vanessa Richardson?

  Jeffrey Michael German was born on August 23rd, 1953, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He had a working-class upbringing, but was encouraged to take an interest in world events and politics, particularly from his mother. In 1972, 19-year-old Jeff was in college when the Watergate scandal broke. He followed the story closely, and it had a huge impact on his life. All of a sudden, Jeff felt like he couldn't trust the government. He became so disillusioned, he started to see politicians as enemies and wanted to help expose their corruption. So he started taking journalism classes, and his life changed forever.

• 26:01Vanessa Richardson?

  After graduating in 1975, 22-year-old Jeff beefed up his portfolio with some freelance articles for smaller newspapers in the Milwaukee suburb. By 1977, he had enough experience to get an internship at the Milwaukee Journal, but they weren't going to offer him a full-time job when it was over. However, there were opportunities elsewhere. Jeff called an old contact who was now living in Las Vegas. It turned out that the newspaper she worked for, the Las Vegas Sun, was looking for reporters, and thanks to her recommendation, Jeff got the job. He spent the next three decades working at the Sun. If there was a controversy in Las Vegas during this period, Jeff was on it.

• 26:46Vanessa Richardson?

  He covered some massive stories, writing about organized crime, local government, politics, and the courts. But even his storied career couldn't save him from budget cuts. In 2009, Jeff was laid off, along with about 40 other journalists. He wasn't out of work for long, though. He quickly got a job at the Las Vegas Review-Journal and picked up right where he left off, covering important stories like the 2017 mass shooting in Las Vegas.

• 27:17Tristin Engels?

  You don't choose a career like investigative journalism by accident, especially not when your coverage is corruption, violence, and political power. You choose it because something in you can't not speak up. And to do that, you have to have certain personality traits in order to do it confidently. Jeff is someone with strong moral clarity. People like Jeff often have high integrity and conscientiousness, are principle-driven, and to do this work, they can't be afraid to confront authority. People like Jeff walk a fine line between justice and danger. Their pursuit of truth makes them targets. And when they investigate powerful individuals with fragile egos and violent tendencies, they face real risk.

• 27:59Vanessa Richardson?

  I say this as someone who's been covering serial killers for the past eight years. What is the psychological impact of covering traumatic stories like the Las Vegas shooting?

• 28:08Tristin Engels?

  Excellent question, and one that I don't think is considered often enough. Covering traumatic stories like mass shootings, or corruption, or public tragedy of any kind has a very real psychological impact, even on seasoned professionals. Some of the psychological effects include vicarious trauma, which occurs when someone absorbs the emotional pain of others through repeated exposure. Journalists who interview grieving families, or witness graphic scenes, or relive tragedy through their investigations can start to experience symptoms similar to post-traumatic stress disorder. They can also experience moral injury. And in Jeff's case, this would occur if he's uncovering corruption and sees that it goes unpunished. And that can create a strong sense of disillusionment. And as you said, Jeff's already been experiencing that,

• 28:53Tristin Engels?

  especially when it comes to corruption in politics. They're often chronically hypervigilant, and this can affect trust, sleep, relationships, and a sense of overall safety. So to cover stories that involve sensitive topics like violence or corruption, you really have to be driven by strong emotional resilience.

• 29:12Vanessa Richardson?

  With such an impressive track record, Jeff was the one to call for every major story in Las Vegas. And in the spring of 2022, the 68-year-old was put in contact with Rita Reed, Alicia Goodwin, and a few other employees at the Clark County Public Administrator's Office. Jeff was interested in the story, but there were some hurdles that would be tough to clear. These were some pretty explosive allegations. It wasn't the sort of thing he could investigate unilaterally. If he was going to dig any deeper, he would have to run it by his editors and the paper's legal department. And there was a time element in play as well. Normally, a story like this could take months to properly cover. But the whole point of it was to expose Robert

• 29:56Vanessa Richardson?

  before the primary election, and it was just a couple months away, on June 14, 2022. To help make the situation more urgent, Alicia filed another HR complaint on May 9. The 18-page document was incredibly detailed. Alicia described how for the past two years, she felt like Robert had continued to mistreat her because of her Mormon background. He'd moved her from a private cubicle to the open reception area, where she was constantly interrupted. He also took away her important work duties, micromanaged her when she was working, and left her off email chains. He even excluded her from lunch parties. And for the first time,

• 30:40Vanessa Richardson?

  Alicia also formally notified HR about Robert's improper relationship with Roberta Lee Kennett. Before, Rita had just brought it up to the county liaison, Jeff Wells. So this took the complaint a step further. But the problem wasn't just that Robert and Roberta were romantically involved. Robert was supposedly giving her preferential treatment at the office as well. To make her point crystal clear, Alicia ended her complaint by asking both Robert and Roberta to be removed from their positions. The complaint helped Jeff German get the story off the ground. He spent the next week talking to other employees and verifying information.

• 31:23Vanessa Richardson?

  On May 16, 2022, the story went live on the Review Journal's website, and the contents were explosive.

• 31:35Vanessa Richardson?

  It started with, quote, "The Clark County Public Administrator's Office has been mired in turmoil and internal dissension over the past two years with allegations of emotional stress, bullying, and favoritism, leading to secret videotaping of the boss and a coworker outside the office," end quote. The story went on to detail all the abuses that Rita Reed, Alicia Goodwin, and their coworkers had observed ever since Robert Telles took office in January 2019. It included Alicia's complaint from May 9, along with video footage they'd gotten of Robert and Lee Kennett in the backseat of her car. But Jeff also allowed Robert to give comments for the story.

• 32:20Vanessa Richardson?

  He said that the allegations were coming from employees who didn't like that he was in charge now. He said that the new employees he'd brought on, like Roberta Lee Kennett, were all very happy, and that the office's productivity had almost doubled during his term. As for the alleged relationship between Roberta Lee Kennett and himself, Robert said their clandestine meetings were just two colleagues venting to each other about work. He added, quote, "I think it's horrible that they recorded this, and they're trying to destroy my life and my marriage, when I'm actually infinitely in love with my wife. I was just trying to get things off my chest with somebody who understands, and now it's

• 33:03Vanessa Richardson?

  being framed as though I'm cheating on my wife," end quote. Robert even threatened to go on the offensive and sue for defamation or libel, but when he consulted with an attorney, he was told it was a long shot. Not only would he have to prove actual malice on Jeff German's part, but the attorney thought it would be hard to prove that the article itself wasn't true.

• 33:26Tristin Engels?

  Jeff going on the defense and not taking accountability isn't just stubbornness or arrogance. It's psychological self-preservation. And for some people, it runs so deep that reality becomes negotiable if it threatens their sense of self. People with narcissistic traits, admitting fault doesn't just hurt their reputation, it threatens their whole identity. So they rewrite the narrative for ego preservation and often engage in something called DARVO, which is deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. And that is evident here. He's denying the allegations, he's going on the attack by retaliating or seeking to retaliate, and he's reversing the roles by positioning himself as the victim. And

• 34:08Tristin Engels?

  that, his accusers are simply trying to destroy his life because they didn't want to accept him as their new boss. There is an inability to tolerate shame that comes from their own actions. He's clearly very invested in a public identity, and that's now in question, and he's trying to reclaim control of that.

• 34:27Vanessa Richardson?

  Do you think it's possible he really thought he didn't do anything wrong? Or does this seem like an obvious denial?

• 34:33Tristin Engels?

  So it is possible, but it's likely both. On some level, he knew what he did was wrong, especially because he was making attempts to conceal it. He's been retaliating against anyone who's questioning his behaviors or reporting him. And of course, he's been engaging in manipulation. But he also may truly feel internally justified in order to preserve his ego, image, and sense of power. Certain personality structures, particularly narcissistic or antisocial, see their actions as justified even though they are harmful. They don't feel like they did anything wrong because the internal rules that they live by are fundamentally different from the social norms the rest of us follow. And we can see that

• 35:14Tristin Engels?

  here because he's asserting that he's the real victim. It's very egosyntonic and, in his eyes, rational.

• 35:23Vanessa Richardson?

  Whatever Robert's feelings on the situation were, the article had the intended effect. After the votes were cast in the primary for the Clark County Public Administrator, he came in third out of the three candidates. And Rita Reed came in first. Robert was furious. Although he was responsible for his own downfall, he focused his rage on Jeff German. He decided if his life was going to be destroyed, then so would Jeff's.

• 36:06Vanessa Richardson?

  Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back next time as we conclude our deep dive into Robert Telles. Of the many sources we used when researching this episode, the one we found the most credible and helpful was the last story, "The Murder of an Investigative Journalist" by Arthur Kane.

• 36:22Tristin Engels?

  Killer Minds is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on all social media at @CrimeHouse. And don't forget to rate, review, and follow Killer Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference.

• 36:43Vanessa Richardson?

  And to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crime House Plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Killer Minds ad-free, along with early access to each thrilling two-part series and exciting bonus content.

• 36:59Vanessa Richardson?

  Killer Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson, and Dr. Tristin Engels, and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Killer Minds team: Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Lori Marinelli, Natalie Pritzowski, Sarah Kemp, Elliot Patskovsky, Beth Johnson, and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening.

• 37:30Vanessa Richardson?

  If you're looking for your next podcast, check out What the Fact with Connor Tomlinson from Netflix's Love on the Spectrum and Carter Roy. Every week, they take three unbelievable true facts from history and tell you the full story behind them. Follow What the Fact wherever you listen or subscribe on YouTube at What the Fact Pod.