Rentals Replaced My Income in 11 Years (Even After Making Every Mistake)

In just 11 years, Aaron Murphy has replaced his and his wife’s income with repeatable, long-term rental properties. No complicated strategy. No huge windfall of cash. He made serious mistakes on his first true investment property, but quickly developed a “foolproof” system that allowed him to scale to an impressive real estate portfolio and gave him a sustainable exit path out of his W-2 job. After getting tired of the “do this or don’t get paid” mentality at his job, Aaron realized he needed another source of income. Stocks required too much upfront cash, homes in his city were too expensive, but what if he looked outside the city? He bought his first property with around $12,000 down, saved up more money, repeated it, made mistakes, succeeded, failed, and did it again, until he had a process that built wealth on repeat. Now, Aaron has an entire rental portfolio to rely on for income as he takes this interview from Portugal as part of a one-year trip around the world. It’s only possible because he took the first step—buying just one property. In This Episode We Cover Aaron’s repeatable BRRRR method that helped him scale to 75 rental units The biggest mistakes you can avoid on your first rental property (Aaron learned the hard way) One thing you always account for when analyzing a rental property (or it’ll cost you thousands) Want a mentor? The “foolproof” system to finding the best ones in your area The secret to getting low offers accepted that’s so simple, most investors skip over it And So Much More! Check out more resources from this show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BiggerPockets.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠h⁠⁠t⁠t⁠ps://www⁠.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-1315. Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Henry Washington?

  We always say this, anyone can replace their income with real estate in eight to 12 years. Today's guest, Aaron Murphy, is proof that that is possible. Aaron was stuck at a work meeting one day. His boss looked over at him and said, we don't want to do this work, but we have to do it, or we're not getting paid. And nothing made Aaron want to find an exit route quicker than that. Investing in stocks was too slow and took too much money, but buying in a real estate market just outside of his pricey city could work. And he only needed about $12,000 to start. So he bought a rental, made a ton of mistakes, learned how to fix them, and then repeated it. Then the real growth came when he found the BRRRR strategy. This foolproof system allowed him to replace his and his wife's

• 0:44Henry Washington?

  income in just 11 years. He's now off traveling the world, like literally, right now. He's taking this call live from Portugal, thanks to simple, repeatable rentals he kept by. Your exit route is available too. Are you gonna take it?

• 1:04Henry Washington?

  What's going on everybody? I'm Henry Washington, co-host of the BiggerPockets Podcast. And today I have an investor story with Mr. Aaron Murphy from Baltimore, Maryland. So let's bring him on. Mr. Aaron Murphy, welcome to the BiggerPockets Podcast.

• 1:16Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me here. It's a really dream come true. I used to listen to this show riding around in my car with no air conditioning out in rural Maryland. It was in the summertime. I'd be listening to BiggerPockets playing. I listened to almost every episode back in those days. So it all comes full circle now.

• 1:32Henry Washington?

  Awesome. Well, we're glad to have you. Why don't you start with your background? Like, what were you doing before you got into real estate? And what gave you the bug to get you to start doing it?

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Sure. So my story is a little bit unique. I actually got exposed to real estate when I was a kid. So my, my family was sort of into real estate, trying to do flips and that sort of thing. We did a lot of work on flips and different projects, but it never really turned into successful deals. I don't know if it was bad market timing or what the situation was, but there was a lot of carrying shingles and trying to learn to paint and being used as sort of like free labor, but not a lot of having that convert into anything successful that we could feel like we really won at the end of.

• 2:12Henry Washington?

  I like how you were there, kid, and you called it being used as free labor.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  I learned, I learned that later. I learned that later. You know, sometimes if I'm talking to my parents, I call it character building. So it all depends on who I'm talking to.

• 2:23Henry Washington?

  That's right. That's right.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  So I concluded in that time that real estate was basically a scam. I was like, look, it's pretty likely that you're not going to make money in real estate. And I didn't want anything to do with it. So flash forward, I get out of school and I end up having a sales job. So when I get the sales job, I was selling software to commercial real estate brokers and banks and groups like that. Two things started happening when I had the job. One is that I started getting exposed to a different type of real estate. So rather than sort of doing a whole project and then wondering if some lady was going to like the color of the kitchen, this was more focused on income, income coming in, expenses going out, and really running an operational business. And then the second thing that I sort of

• 3:05Speaker 01

  started learning was more accidental, which was that the W2 life wasn't for me. So basically, what I started having was these moments where I would be in meetings and I felt like whatever that moment is in movies when they turn to you and they speak to the audience directly and say the thing they're not supposed to say. I started feeling like I was having those experiences sitting in work meetings. So one time, like a VP turns to us and says, I know we don't want to be doing this right now, but we have to do it, or they won't pay us. We won't be able to take care of our families unless we do this. And, you know, he saw it as very motivational and he was supposed to be inspiring everybody. But to me, it felt like, okay, so that's a problem, right? We need to find a different, some kind of different avenue other than being trapped in this. And I started thinking from

• 3:50Speaker 01

  there, what do I do to get out of this, out of this situation? So it was basically math from there. I looked at what are my avenues to make enough money? I thought I needed about $70,000 a year. I looked at first dividend stocks, because that sounded really, like really simple. At that time, AT&T was paying a 7% dividend. So I thought, all right, I just need AT&T stock. But then I thought I needed a million dollars of AT&T stock. And my first job was only paying me 30K base salary. So I didn't, I didn't see how to, how to put that together.

• 4:18Henry Washington?

  It'll take you a little bit. It'll take you a little bit.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Right, right. It takes some time. And what makes it worse, Henry, I didn't even know about compound interest at the time. So I thought I really needed to save, save a million straight out. So that didn't seem like it was going to work. So then I looked at stocks and just in general. And I, you know, now I know there's the 4% rule in all of this. In those days, I had some general sense of that, but it seemed like I needed like $2 million worth of stocks to be able to live on as well. Same problem. I couldn't save a million for dividend stocks. I couldn't save $2 million for regular stocks. But when I looked at real estate, I thought I could save up enough to get rental properties, because I thought I only needed about 14 or 15 rental properties. And in my mind, I thought that was realistic. I could buy those a little bit at a time. I could use down payments and that sort of thing. So that's how I decided on real estate, just because it seemed possible.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  That was the advantage it had over, over other stuff. And then I started listening to BiggerPockets. I started studying, learning. I ended up doing my first deal, which was a house hack in the DC area at that time. And that's sort of how I got started. But as you flash forward to today, we've got about 75 rental units. We do construction in-house. We do maintenance in-house. We do our own property management in-house. And it's really been a blessing of a journey to go down.

• 5:27Henry Washington?

  I want to go back to the beginning. You said your first deal was a house hack in the DC Maryland area. Talk to me about that. Was it a multifamily house hack? Or was this like a single family? You rented some rooms out?

• 5:39Speaker 01

  No, this was as, as, as far from the having your own space house hack as you could, as you could be. And you guys talk about this being on a spectrum.

• 5:45Henry Washington?

  This is super uncomfortable.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Right, right. This was, this is a rough one. So this was the situation where I bought a five-bedroom house in the DC area. This was 2016 when I bought my first deal. So when it started out, I thought I needed to buy a house in DC, because that's where I was working. And the house prices there were around $700,000 per property. Yeah, I didn't see a way to make it work. And I also only knew about 20% down purchases. So I'm thinking I need 140 grand, better than one or two million, but still, you know, difficult to get to that. So from talking to a friend, I sort of realized that he had bought a property with a much lower down payment in this area called Hyattsville. And so I learned at that time about FHA loans, which I combined the idea of the FHA loan with three and a half

• 6:27Speaker 01

  percent down, along with going and getting a property outside the city in a more affordable area, this area of Hyattsville. So I put down $11,900 for the first deal. It was a five-bedroom house. I lived in the basement of the house and I rented out the other four rooms. So I'm living down there. I'm renting out the other rooms for $700 apiece. My mortgage was about two grand. It really was basically a break even because of utilities and maintenance requests and all of that. But it allowed me to stop paying rent. So it accelerated how much I could save. And that let me start really moving faster towards my next deals.

• 7:00Henry Washington?

  That is the key. I feel like people start house hacking, they start covering their expenses, but then they adjust their lifestyle, right? And so, and so they don't save anything and they don't really help themselves be prepared to go and do more deals. So you had that in the bag. You were saving. In your mind, what were you saving towards? Like, what were you seeing as the next step?

• 7:23Speaker 01

  So I thought I just needed like 14 properties, 500 bucks apiece, $7,000 a month, and I'll be good. So I was trying to save to get those properties. So the saving from that allowed me to buy my next deal, which was actually in a, in a less expensive market called Hagerstown, a little bit more north of DC. And that was a triplex that I bought for $96,000 in 2017.

• 7:44Henry Washington?

  Say what? Now you bought a triplex for how much in, in 2016?

• 7:47Speaker 01

  For $96,000.

• 7:48Henry Washington?

  Was it standing?

• 7:50Speaker 01

  It was, it was standing, but that was about all that I can say positively about it. That, that, that was an interesting situation. I, I started inventing ways to make mistakes on that deal, Henry. It was, that was a rough one.

• 8:00Henry Washington?

  Tell us a little more about that experience. What did you expect going into it? Don't give us all the problems. We'll be here all day. But give us, give us the, give us some of the biggest hangups that happened that maybe you didn't expect.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  With this deal, what I expected was just pure cash flow and profit and to be starting, you know, rewriting my book the next.

• 8:17Henry Washington?

  Looks good on paper, doesn't it?

• 8:18Speaker 01

  Right, right. So, so, um, yeah, if I, if I just had to pick out some of the most ridiculous mistakes that I made, the first one is that in the contract to buy the property, that it said that the property was going to be delivered fully occupied. And that's what I told, it was told was the condition of the property. Three units occupied, all tenants paying rent. When we were about two weeks out from closing, they told me that in fact, one unit was occupied, two units were vacant, but the two vacant units were in pretty good condition. They provided photos. So at that moment, I had to decide what to do. Now I decided, I'm standing up for myself. You guys aren't going to push me around. It's in the contract that these units need to be occupied. You need to deliver the units

• 9:00Speaker 01

  occupied. Sounded like a great idea. Terrible idea. Nothing in the, nothing in the contract said how they had to screen those tenants or the rules and requirements. So this is a, you know, this is a post-industrial city and rural Maryland or the Pennsylvania state line. They found people that were willing to move into the units.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  And those people off to me. So those people became my first two evictions.

• 9:25Speaker 01

  All better, all better of problems with this. So, uh, yeah, it was, it was a rough situation. I could tell. I could tell you, you got, you got the problem immediately. But those days I thought, you know, I felt great about what I was doing.

• 9:36Henry Washington?

  When we say educating yourself is hugely important, like this is an example of what we mean. Cause you didn't think you were doing anything wrong. You thought you were actually doing the opposite. You thought somebody else was trying to do you wrong and no, absolutely not. I am going to stand on my business, which is do what you said you were going to do. But, uh, yeah, man, that's tough. So let's just go back to the numbers on that one. So you paid 96, how much you put in it?

• 9:59Speaker 01

  I put down 20%, so it's a little, I guess a little under 20K.

• 10:03Henry Washington?

  What did you pay for the renovation?

• 10:05Speaker 01

  It was supposed to be turnkey. So there wasn't any renovation at that time. Cause remember I was supposed to have three occupied, occupied units.

• 10:11Henry Washington?

  Yeah. Okay. Okay. So what did you pay for renovating it?

• 10:14Speaker 01

  Once I, once I got those, once I got those tenants out and actually evicted and all of that, I would say I probably put in another, maybe 20,000 or so turning over those units. But what the good thing about that market is that the labor cost is cheaper and the units didn't need to be fully gutted or anything. They were sort of like livable. So, um, so I got that, I got that up and running.

• 10:34Henry Washington?

  And what did you get the rents to? Once you got the eviction, you got to put the 20 grand into it. What were you renting each unit for?

• 10:40Speaker 01

  I eventually got the rents up to about $1,900 per month in total across the three different units.

• 10:46Henry Washington?

  That's a solid deal. You're all in for about a hundred and 15 to a hundred and 17 and you're getting $1,900 a month. That's the, I mean, that's, there's a lot of people that would love that deal. Yeah. You went through a lot of headaches. Is it one you still own?

• 10:59Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, no, I still own that. And, and that property ended up being, um, it sort of helped create the opportunity to create my BRRRR portfolio later. So it turned into a big win down the road.

• 11:08Henry Washington?

  All right, man. That's super cool. First, thank you so much for sharing the, not the best side of a deal sometimes and being vulnerable with the audience. That means a lot to us and a lot to the audience. We want to learn from the ups and the downs, but this one sounds like it was pretty good. But I want to dive into something you talked about at the end of talking about that deal, which was how it helped propel you forward. Because there's a lot of different strategies you can take to leverage one asset to buy more. And I'm, I'd love to learn more about how you did that, but we're going to do it right after the break. Here's a strategy that most W2 employees have never heard of. Normally, if you want to write off a rental property against your regular income, you need real estate professional status.

• 11:48Henry Washington?

  That means tracking hundreds of hours a year. Rent to Retirement just launched a program that skips all of that. It's called the STR loophole tenant placement program. Here's how it works. You buy one of Rent to Retirement's Class A new construction investment properties. You set up an Airbnb listing and self-manage it for the remainder of the year. Rent to Retirement then rents the home as a short-term rental to establish it as an STR for the year. No furnishing required, making this the easy button to save five or six figures in taxes this year. And because you're the sole manager, there's no hourly minimum to meet. That lets you use a cost segregation study to accelerate the depreciation and potentially write off over $100,000 against your income.

• 12:33Henry Washington?

  Even on your first rental, add in cash back up to 13% of the home price, which exceeds $60,000 on some properties. With this massive cash back incentives, investors are seeing total returns up to 126%. New construction, A-class properties and inventory is limited. Learn more at biggerpockets.com/retirement or text REI to 33777. Again, text REI to 33777.

• 13:01Dave Meyer?

  Summer bookings sound great until someone slips by the pool, gets hurt on your dock or damages your property during a long holiday weekend. A lot of short-term rental investors don't realize their standard policy may leave gaps when it comes to short-term rental activity. That's why investors use Steadily. They offer landlord insurance built for real estate investors, including short-term rentals. And if you're a BiggerPockets Pro member, you'll also get 5% off your landlord insurance premiums. Visit biggerpockets.com/landlordinsurance to learn more.

• 13:34Henry Washington?

  Quick word about a new pro perk you'll want to know about. Aven, if you're a homeowner, there's a good chance you're sitting on equity that you're not using. The problem is tapping into that usually means a cash out refi, a traditional second mortgage or weeks of paperwork just to get approved. Aven built something different. It's a credit card, but it's backed by your home equity. So you get a lot of the rate benefits of a HELOC with the flexibility of a card you can use anywhere. Rates are typically well below a standard credit card, approval is fast and mostly online, and you can use it for anything. A renovation, paying down high interest debt, or just have more breathing room in your budget. And if you're a BiggerPockets Pro member, there's an extra reason to check it out. Get approved for the Aven card and you'll get a $400 statement credit after spending $400 on your Aven card.

• 14:19Henry Washington?

  Enough to cover your entire annual pro membership. Head over to aven.com/biggerpockets to see if you qualify. Aven Financial, MLS number 2042345. Cards issued per 202 license from Visa USA, Inc. by Coastal Community Bank. MLS number 462289. Member FDIC. Equal housing lender. Subject to approval. Terms apply. Visit aven.com for details.

• 14:37Speaker 03

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies. 18 plus.

• 15:06Henry Washington?

  All right, we are back on the BiggerPockets podcast with investor Aaron Murphy, who's telling us all about how he got started in the Maryland area and how he's grown his portfolio from just one house hack to now 55 units. So we were talking about this multi-unit that you purchased for $96,000 that was supposed to be turnkey, which is mind blowing. And turned out to be mostly turnkey, but also had some problems. But once you got that thing stabilized, you said it helped you grow your portfolio. So what strategies did you use to leverage that unit to continue to grow?

• 15:42Speaker 01

  The reason I say that deal helped propel me forward was that after I sort of faced the problems that were going on at that unit and got it up and running properly and all of that, I went on to buy some other deals in the next couple of years. Then a few years down the line, when I made the decision that I wanted to go into real estate full-time and do BRRRR, by that time, this property had appreciated for six or seven years. And the market had, had had a few positive things occur that caused values to go up. So because I was able to hold on to the property and not lose the asset, I was able to participate in all that appreciation. And I was able to do a cash out refinance and pull out $50,000 from that property,

• 16:23Speaker 01

  which then became half of the money that I used to seed, uh, the creation of my BRRRR portfolio, which is where I did the bulk of my growth, uh, starting from 2022 onward.

• 16:33Henry Washington?

  So you pulled that out. You said that was, that ended up being about half of what you use. So I assume you, you grabbed $50,000 from somewhere else. So it sounds like you've got this, this nest egg of about a hundred thousand dollars. And you said you used it to start building your BRRRR portfolio. So that tells me that you decided to shift what your strategy was. Now, when you decided to do BRRRRs, were you buying similar properties in similar areas? Or did you find a new area of town or a new type of property that you wanted to buy? Like what was your BRRRR strategy?

• 17:04Speaker 01

  So what I started doing was, uh, my wife and I actually moved to the Baltimore market. I'm a person, I don't do things in half measures. So we actually moved there and moved into like a $99,000 row house in Baltimore. So imagine my wife just finished dental school. I'm doing software sales, making good money. And we literally moved. It wasn't really truly moving into the hood, but it was a rough, it was a rough spot.

• 17:24Henry Washington?

  I was going to say, like, you say a row house in Baltimore and I start thinking about the wire. So was it like a row house like you see on the wire or were we a little outside of the, the Baltimore metro property?

• 17:38Speaker 01

  No, no, this, this was definitely in the, in the city of Baltimore. It was in the zip code 21202. But what I've learned about Baltimore is that, um, it really is, uh, block by block. There certainly are blocks that are entirely vacant and then there's blocks that are beautiful with three, $400,000 row houses on them. This was, this was somewhere in the middle. It wasn't, it wasn't all vacant. It wasn't all the way to the beautiful end as well. Yeah. But when we pivoted to BRRRR, what we started doing, a typical deal ended up looking like we would buy it for around a hundred thousand dollars, give or take. And then we would put in around, uh, 30 to $40,000 worth of renovation, give or take. And then I think it's really important to include closing costs. A lot of people say you don't have to, but, um, what I found is that in this, these lower price ranges,

• 18:22Speaker 01

  the closing costs can be a really high percentage of the overall deal. So I add in another 20 grand for closing costs on the front end and back end of the deal. So in that situation, I'm all in for somewhere between 150 and 160. And I'm praising those properties anywhere from 200 to 220. And then, so I'm doing my refinance, recovering as much of my capital as possible. Sometimes all of it, sometimes I'm getting a little more out of the deal. Sometimes I have to leave a little in the deal. And then that's the process that I've basically been repeating over and over again, uh, for the last now, um, I guess roughly four years since 2022. And that's when I bought the bulk of my portfolio.

• 18:57Henry Washington?

  That's really cool. So as you were buying these BRRRR deals and you switched to your BRRRR method, it sounds great to be able to say, yeah, I just started, I found these, these deals and I was paying 95,000 to 100,000. And I was putting 30 to $40,000 worth of work into them. I added $20,000 for closing costs. And then I would refinance them at 240 to 250. That sounds great. There is actual operation that has to happen and has to happen efficiently for that to be able to work. Because you actually have to get in there and start renovating these. And you weren't doing just one or two of these a year. How many did you buy over the course of these, these next few years?

• 19:35Speaker 01

  From 2022 till now, I've basically had one renovation occurring, at least, at least one every four to six weeks. So it's been a consistent sort of treadmill and sometimes they're duplexes, sometimes they're triplexes. So it has become consistent from there.

• 19:49Henry Washington?

  So you can't accidentally renovate that many units with, without a system or a team or processes. So can you talk to us a little bit about how you started to build all those out? And when you actually were able to take it all in-house versus hiring third parties to do it all, all the time? Asking for a friend, because I use third parties.

• 20:09Speaker 01

  Gotcha, gotcha. So it started, it started by, by falling on my face. So, so let's go back to 2022, right, right when I leave my job. I've got this plan in place. I'm going to start doing these, these BRRRR deals. And you're right, it didn't start off with the idea of doing one every four to six weeks. That came later. So I have a hundred thousand dollars to begin. And on my first two deals, I go over budget on both renovations, uh, using third-party contractors, not really their fault, but I go over budget and I, I basically go over budget by a combined $65,000. So I'm down to about 35 grand in my war chest. So then when we start our third project, I get into this project that I'd underwritten as around a 30 to $40,000 renovation.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  Then I realized as I had started the project that it was closer to a 80 or a hundred thousand dollar renovation. So I'm looking to, to basically, because it was close to a full gut. So I'm going to go under-

• 21:00Henry Washington?

  You gotta save money. Yeah.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  Right, right. So yeah, so I'm going to, I'm going to get to the point where I'm actually going to have to go take money out of our reserves, or even from our, from our family personal emergency fund in order to just finish this deal. So I'm very much a the way out is through type of person. So instead of throwing my hands up, what I did is I went and hired some day laborers and I went and worked with them in that house and literally worked side by side with them for four or five months straight, learning and, and, and sort of being a taskmaster, but getting this whole renovation done. And in the process where I was doing that, I learned firsthand how to tape in mud drywall. I learned which type of drop your-

• 21:38Henry Washington?

  That's the worst part.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, that, wow, there's some parts that are worse. I think demoing, demoing plaster in like a, in like a 1920s house. That, that's, that's really, that's really rough.

• 21:48Henry Washington?

  You get them lap, that lap board behind that plaster.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He does that. Yeah. So, so, so, so basically, um, I had to survive that situation because think about it again, I've got this, this wife that put her, she went through dental school, right? She's expecting to have this grand plan. I'm on the cusp of, of basically being out of business one year in and just turning to her and saying like, I don't know what to do now. So I, I had to figure it out. Um, and so, and so I did. And, and I figured out a bunch of things there. I figured out I could, I could adjust, modify one non-load bearing wall to add an extra room. Um, I figured out that I could cut my, cut the GC profit out entirely by GCing it myself. I was able to cut a bunch of other costs out by hiring these guys, um, to work with me. I saved money by working there myself and I survived that deal. But what it gave me was a really granular level understanding

• 22:35Speaker 01

  of construction, which helped me understand not only what needs to be done in the house, but about how long is it going to take and what's the cheapest way to, to do it?

• 22:43Henry Washington?

  Yeah.

• 22:44Speaker 01

  And so from that firsthand experience, I actually did a couple of light cosmetic renovations myself after that for a couple of deals. And then from there, then I was able to bring back in workers that were able to, from there, start, um, working on projects for me. And I sort of build it back up into those day laborers became like my full-time construction crew. So they're technically still 1099 contractors, but they work five days a week and only my stuff. We talk every single day. Um, and, and that's what's, that's what's enabled me now to move faster with more pace because we never have to stop. It's never a negotiation over price. We know exactly what we're paying them. They know what, what work needs to be done. We use the same materials in every project. Um, they know exactly which

• 23:25Speaker 01

  SKUs we need to buy, uh, which materials we need to buy. So everything is just repeatable. And that's what allowed us to pick up this process, um, and move faster.

• 23:33Henry Washington?

  When people are trying to figure out, how do I manage renovation? Or how do I get better at managing contractors? They're usually pretty simple. Cause if you think about what a contractor is, they're an entrepreneur like us. So they kill what they eat. And so what you provided these people is stability. You're growing. They know they've got work coming in. They know what work is coming in. It's not a surprise every time. They know how to do the work. They know the expectation that you have. They know when they're getting paid. They know how much they're getting paid.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  If I could ask, add one thing to that, I, I, I completely agree with what you're saying. And it actually, as, as I'm sure you know, but just for people listening, this concept of solving the problem for them and making it peaceful for them, this actually applies to almost everyone that you're going to be dealing with in your real estate business. And it's sort of the second part of the answer to your question about how I made this a system that I could repeat. What I did is I figured out what the pain points were for all the people that I was touching in the process. And I made what I was doing fit what was peaceful and easy for them. So what your hard money lender wants is they want to know that if something goes wrong, you have the capital to come in and still pay them off. So I, you know, shared information with my hard money lender, Sean Magna, who became a mentor to

• 24:48Speaker 01

  me, where he was able to then understand that no matter what, he was always going to get paid out. I have conservative ARVs. Then for the contractor, they need to work every day. They don't want to do one project, wait two weeks to another project, right? So then I realized, okay, it can't be four to six weeks, then time off another four to six weeks. It needs to be consistent. Then I found that my DSCR lender, they just don't want to write me a check. They basically want me to have good credit and they don't want to give me any money. So I realized that by, by, by instead of borrowing, what I used to do originally was only fund the purchase with hard money and I would fund the construction myself. I realized what I actually need to do was borrow everything from the hard money lender. And then that's better for the DSCR person because they can feel it's a lower risk loan because they're giving the money to, to my hard money lender

• 25:30Speaker 01

  and not me. So I, I won't go through every single person in the, in the situation, but every single person that's involved in my deal, I've figured out what they want, what makes it easy for them, all the way down to the tile installer. We know exactly what everyone wants. We've made it easy for them. And then in turn, they all make it easy for me.

• 25:46Henry Washington?

  One thousand percent yes. If you want something from someone, if you need help, if you want some, somebody to do things for you, you have to speak to them in their language. And that language is the what's in it for them. If you understand what's in it for everybody in the process of you operating your real estate business and you design your business to give people what they want, when they want it, you become their priority. They want to work with you. They want to fund your deals. They want to be as flexible as you need them to be because they want these, you give them what they want. That's the secret sauce, man. And you've, you've figured it out. That's amazing. Congratulations.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I appreciate that.

• 26:28Henry Washington?

  I want to dig into a little more how you kind of leverage the same mindset to build your formula for finding a mentor, but we're going to do that right after the break.

• 26:38Dave Meyer?

  You know, when I first started sharing my real estate journeys online, I didn't have a website. I had a spreadsheet, an Instagram account and no idea how they'd ever connect. I remember thinking a real website was going to cost me thousands of dollars and take a developer weeks to build. So I kept putting it off. Then I found Hostinger. I typed in what I wanted, a site to show off my deals, share my story and capture leads. And their AI builder had a working version live in minutes. No code, no designer, no developer needed. And it didn't stop at launch. Once my site was live, Hostinger's AI agent helped me figure out what to try next. Acting like a built-in team of specialists for SEO, website

• 27:22Dave Meyer?

  copy, email marketing and more. Domain, website, email, marketing. One Hostinger account covers it all. So you're not stitching together five subscriptions or wondering if they even talk to each other. Plans start at just $3 a month. So you can begin at your own pace and build from there. Hostinger builds your vision step by step. Create your website today. Go to hostinger.com/realestate and use code REALESTATE for 10% off now.

• 27:50Henry Washington?

  Buy smart, drive for less and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on an all-wheel drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or get a Corolla sedan packed with the latest features, advanced tech and head turning style. Take a test drive in two of Toyota's most popular SUVs, the spacious, family-friendly Grand Highlander and adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid and plug-in hybrid models available across the lineup, plus efficient all-electrics like the BZ, BZ Woodland and all-wheel drive CHR, you can drive your way and skip the pump. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with legendary resale value

• 28:32Henry Washington?

  built on a reputation for quality and reliability. So when it's time for your next Toyota, you could trade in for more from a great deal today to a great value tomorrow. A Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.

• 28:51Dave Meyer?

  I just booked a ski trip to Park City and I've already got the whole thing planned out. Five days, first tracks every morning before the crowds show up, my knees reminding me I'm not 25 anymore by the second run, and an embarrassing number of overpriced burritos at the lodge. I don't even care. This is the trip I look forward to all year. But here's the part I actually appreciate. The practical side of my brain kicking in is that my place doesn't have to just sit there empty the whole time I'm away. I can list my space on Airbnb and bring in a little extra income while I'm out getting humbled on a mountain. And with the co-host network, I'm not the one handling all of it. You can

• 29:32Dave Meyer?

  partner with a vetted local co-host who can create your listing, manage reservations, message guests, and even handle the styling. So I get to fully focus on my trip and my place is still working for me the whole time. Find a co-host at airbnb.com/host. Investing in real estate has always been smart, but it hasn't always been simple. Now it's both, thanks to the Fundrise Flagship Fund. The Fundrise Flagship Fund launched more than five years ago with a mission of delivering low-fee access to blue-chip private market real estate. Today, the Fundrise Flagship Fund has grown to manage more than a billion dollars of real estate on behalf of hundreds of thousands of investors, making it one of

• 30:15Dave Meyer?

  the largest funds of its kind. For those who believe real estate has an important role to play in their portfolio strategy, the Fundrise Flagship Fund has positioned itself as both a simple and a smart option. Whether you're starting with $10 or $10,000, the Fundrise Flagship Fund makes adding real estate's unique potential for both passive income and consistent growth. Just visit fundrise.com/pockets to make your first investment today. Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses of the Fundrise Flagship Fund before investing. This and other information can be found in the fund's prospectus at fundrise.com/flagship. This is a paid advertisement.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration blog, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up require compatibility and availability varies 18 plus.

• 31:26Henry Washington?

  All right, we are back on the BiggerPockets Podcast with investor Aaron Murphy, who has built quite a business, not just a business of properties that are producing cash flow, but a business where he is essentially vertically integrated by hiring his own in-house contractors. Technically, they're still contractors, but they're only working for you because you figured out the what's in it for them, and doing your own in-house property management. When we were talking before the break, you had mentioned that you've developed this system based on very similar principles about how to get mentors to want to mentor you for free. So I'm very curious about how you built that and what that actually is.

• 32:06Speaker 01

  Sure, absolutely. So I call it the foolproof plan to get the best mentors in the world for free. And the first part of this is reframing the way that you think about what a mentor is. What most people want when they think about a mentor is they want someone that's going to sort of come alongside them and hold their hand and make sure that the first deal goes really smoothly. They're gonna, they're gonna tell them, I think it's a good deal. I think you're paying a good price. Really what they want is they want that person to take on the emotional burden of the fear or the risk of that deal working out and make sure that they feel it's going to be okay. But what I've found is that no one actually wants to do that. People do not want to take on the responsibility for you of your deal working

• 32:49Speaker 01

  out. So instead, what you have to do is reframe the idea of a mentor. Instead of being one person that's going to sort of do it all for you, it's going to be a group of people that you can ask questions to about what you're dealing with. And those people are going to give you real, precise advice about what you're going through because they've been through it as well. And that's why I say they're the best mentors in the world, because it may not be a Grant Cardone or the biggest name, but they're someone that's in your market, that's specifically doing what you're trying to do, whether it's real estate related or not. That's the person with the most salient advice for what you're, for what you need. So that's the first part is reframe the idea of a mentor to a group, a network of people that you're going to ask questions to, not one person that's going to come alongside

• 33:31Speaker 01

  you and essentially do the deal. So then the second part of the, of the way to get these mentors for free is that you've got to put yourself in proximity to these people and start asking them real, practical questions based on actual action steps that you're taking. So you can meet these people at meetups, at your local RIA, on BiggerPockets forums, at BiggerPockets events, at industry events. You can meet these people in a lot of different places, but when you meet them, it's critical that you're not asking questions like, if you were starting over and you were my age, what would you do?

• 34:01Henry Washington?

  All the time.

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Right, right. If I could pick your brain. No one, no one wants to have their brain picked. That doesn't even sound fun. And we also, we also don't even, we, you know, we don't need people to buy us coffee or lunch. What people love to do, though, is they love talking to other people about real estate when it's practical and real. So a question like, I've been underwriting rents in this zip code, and I've been thinking I can rent a two-bed for 1,500. Is that, do you think that's about right? That's a question that someone can actually engage with from their experience, and they're going to enjoy answering, rather than having their, having their brain picked. So that's the second part is get around those people and start asking them practical, real questions about actual action steps that you're taking. And then the third step is the one that I think people often miss, which is that you

• 34:45Speaker 01

  have to go back to those people and tell them how you implemented what they suggested and what the outcome was. And what that last step does is it creates a feedback loop where they're actually getting joy and, and sort of being happy with the fact that they helped you. And what ends up happening is some of those people that were in the network of mentors, they end up becoming a mentor in a more similar way to the original way you were thinking about mentors. They end up becoming people that you talk to day to day, that answer questions more practically. Some of them end up becoming peers or mentees down the road. It's, it's interesting to see how it all progresses. But either way, that's, that's sort of what I've learned. And this, this works outside of real estate. I've used this when I was doing competitive debate in college. I used it when I was doing software sales. I became

• 35:28Speaker 01

  one of the best people selling our, our product in the country. I was able to become one of the best debaters in the country. This works across all disciplines. You, you, you think of a mentor as a network. You get around those people and ask them real questions about action steps you're taking. And then you tell them what the outcome was. You complete that, you complete that process, and those people will help you and they're not going to charge you anything.

• 35:47Henry Washington?

  You know, I consider myself a master networker. And, and the reason I'm so good at networking is because I don't think networking is about me. I think networking is about what I can provide to other people. And so a lot of networking is listening and providing value. And providing value to someone then turns human nature in your favor, because if you help someone, they naturally want to help you. And so I love the third step of your program, which is to tell someone how what they told you benefited you, because that activates the warm fuzzies, the feel-good in them. And as soon as you do that, what

• 36:29Henry Washington?

  do they want? They want to keep doing it for you. You just gave the, you gave them what they needed, which is that dopamine boost. Because a lot of people don't get that. They get the opposite at networking events. Somebody wants something from you, and then you give it to them, and then they disappear. Or either they don't disappear, but they don't do anything with what you told them. So providing that feedback to them gives them that dopamine hit, and it puts another investor friend in your pocket that will always want to help you, because they know you're going to listen, you're going to try to implement, and then you're going to let them know if it worked. Like, that's gold. Good stuff, man.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  And, and those, and those people, they, they want to help you. I've, I've never had someone that was more successful than me that didn't want to answer questions and try to help, as long as I was really doing stuff.

• 37:15Henry Washington?

  All right, let's do a quick recap. Can you talk to us a little bit about where your portfolio is today? I know we talked about it earlier, but I want to make sure people understand kind of what you've built.

• 37:26Speaker 01

  So today, we're at 75 units. The majority of those are houses and townhouses, a couple duplexes and triplexes mixed in, 75 total units. They're all in the state of Maryland, mainly concentrated in Baltimore and the surrounding counties. And it's all long-term rentals. So, you know, one-year leases, two-year leases, typically market rate tenants.

• 37:47Henry Washington?

  And is your plan to continue to grow that portfolio, to do similar deals, or are you working on something different now?

• 37:54Speaker 01

  Right now, I'm just continuing sort of a steady state of growth, where we're doing, like I said, one deal every four to six weeks. I am sort of starting to get to the point where I'm realizing, if I were to continue doing that for, let's say, 10 years or something like that, I'm going to turn around and have 200, 250 of these Baltimore area townhouses. And I do like the market, but I'm, I'm starting to have to ask the question of, do I want that? Do I want 200 of these? So I'm thinking through that now. And right now, I'm on this sort of bucket list trip with my wife, and I've been using that as a, I've been using that as an inflection point to really think through what I want that next step to be.

• 38:29Henry Washington?

  Okay, yes. And, and one of my next questions was going to be is what has building this portfolio allowed you to do in your life? But it sounds like what it has allowed you to do is take a bucket list trip. So what is this bucket list trip? And how is real estate helping you do it?

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. So this, this has been a really cool experience. My wife and I have been able to go for about a year and travel all over, all over the world, be able to hit a bunch of different destinations that are kind of too far to travel to normally, like somewhere like Australia for us would have been over 24 hours in the air. But if you're going there from the Philippines, it's not quite as far, and you can get there more easily. So what this trip is, is it's, it's different things for me and my wife. For my wife, what it is, is this 11 out of 10 experience bucket list trip. Like I said, something that she is completely floored about. For me, the purpose of this trip was alignment. When I was looking at my goals for real estate, I started to realize that there was a lot of sacrifices we were going to have to make along the way in order to

• 39:29Speaker 01

  achieve some things I wanted to achieve. And so I was trying to think, how, how am I going to make it so that we're on the same team, rather than us being on a team? She's a very frugal person, but I wanted, how do we be on the same team instead of maybe her wanting to do this activity, and I'm saying no and all of this? So what I realized was this type of trip would be, as I said, an 11 out of 10 experience for her. And the only way we could really do this responsibly would be if we built up enough cash flow and income from, from, from some, someplace, in our case, it was going to be real estate, but it had to be from somewhere, that we could go on the trip, not feel like we were punting on future retirement, not feel like we were doing something irresponsible, not be in a bad situation if we couldn't get jobs when we got back. And so she came on

• 40:11Speaker 01

  board with that idea. She was excited about the idea of the trip. And so we worked forward from there to build the portfolio to a place where it could support the trip, as well as save up enough money to be able to do the trip responsibly. So it's been an incredible experience. We got to see the Great Wall of China. We got to cook pasta with an Italian chef. We got to learn to make French baguettes. It's like a bunch of different stuff that we got to do. But it's been a reward for all of that work, and it's, it's been a really cool experience.

• 40:35Henry Washington?

  I love that. I love that. Real estate can help you and support you in whatever life that you want to live. The other thing that I like is that you're enjoying the fruits of your labor, not 50 years down the road after you've built a portfolio and everything is paid off, but you're enjoying the fruits of your labor along the way. And I feel like that's important, too. Like, if you're not enjoying what you're doing in your past year three, then you can probably make some adjustments and really enjoy what you've started to build. If you're in the first one to three years, sorry, you gotta, you gotta be in the trenches. Like, if you really do want to grow a big portfolio. If you're trying to, if you're trying to just do one or two deals a year, not a big deal. But if you're just getting started, the first few, the first couple of deals, the first

• 41:18Henry Washington?

  few years, it's going to be tough. But you can really start to enjoy a unique life after you've gotten five to 10 decent deals under your belt.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  On this trip, I'm, I'm still working. I have a 24-inch monitor that I'm traveling with. I have my laptop. I'm having meetings with my team that's running the property management, and having meetings daily with my construction staff. Some people that I've met on the trip have said to me, they're, they're like, oh, I'd hate that to need to work while I'm on the trip. And it's like, okay, but you're going to go home in two weeks, and I'll still be able to be here experiencing all of this. So if I needed it to be perfect, we would have never been able to go. So whatever those goals are that you have, try to figure out, how could you do them? Don't try to make it perfect. Just find a way to make it work. And you might be closer to taking a leap than you, than you thought and getting to do some, some of the things you wanted to do.

• 42:05Henry Washington?

  Great words of wisdom. I don't need to add anything else. What a fantastic way to end the episode. Thank you so much, Aaron, for sharing your journey. Thank you so much for sharing the, the good and the things that didn't go so well and being open and transparent. Congratulations to you on the portfolio that you've built that's allowed you to take this, this amazing trip with your wife. How can people get in contact with you, should they choose to?

• 42:28Speaker 01

  Sure. I love, love talking to people, answering questions and try to help. I've got a podcast called Active Rental Income. It's on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Podcasts. So you can check, look, look me up there. And then you can also reach out to me on Facebook, just Aaron Murphy. I'm active in the BiggerPockets Facebook pages as well.

• 42:46Henry Washington?

  Awesome. Thank you. And if you are listening to this, and you are thinking, I would love to share my story on the BiggerPockets Podcast, you can actually apply to be a guest on the show. You can go to biggerpockets.com/guest and fill out the application. We would love to be able to review that and have you come on and share your inspiring story. Thank you so much, everyone, for listening, and we'll see you on the next episode.

• 43:08Speaker 04

  From the studio that brought you WandaVision.

• 43:10Speaker 05

  I was an Avenger, but I'm not a hero anymore.

• 43:15Speaker 04

  The Vision returns for the final chapter of the groundbreaking trilogy. That family wasn't real. You sure about that? I had a father called Vision. How is this possible? Don't miss the two-episode premiere of Marvel Television's Vision Quest. Nothing bonds a family together quite like Mortal Jeopardy. Now streaming, only on Disney+.

• 43:37Speaker 06

  StoneFire Non is made with real buttermilk and ghee. It's the perfect flatbread for any occasion.

• 43:43Speaker 07

  I put out StoneFire Non with dips at every dinner party. I make non-grilled cheese when my daughter has friends over. I use StoneFire Non to reward the humans who do my bidding. Right. It's perfect for camping trips. Dance for it, feeble mortal. Sorry, is he talking to me or? Dance.

• 44:01Speaker 06

  Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. From our tradition to yours, StoneFire. Together we know.