Last Update on the Left - Episode 16 - Biggie & Tupac: An Interview with Greg Kading

In light of today’s historic guilty verdict in the murder of Tupac Shakur, we’re revisiting our conversation with former LAPD detective Greg Kading, who led the task force investigation into the murders of Tupac and The Notorious B. I. G. and later wrote *Murder Rap*. Recorded in 2024, before Duane “Keffe D” Davis was found guilty, Kading takes us inside the rivalry and retaliation that led to both killings, the evidence investigators uncovered, and the forces that kept two of the most infamous murders in music history unsolved for nearly three decades.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:24Marcus Parks?

  Welcome to Last Update on the Left. Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Marcus Parks. I'm here with Henry Zebrowski. Yes, you are, friend. And Ed Larson.

• 1:32Speaker 00

  How you doing?

• 1:33Marcus Parks?

  And our guest today, we're doing an update on the series that we did on the murders of Biggie Smalls and Tupac Shakur. We have the author, one of the sources we used, we have Greg Kating, author of Murder Rap. How you doing today, sir?

• 1:50Speaker 02

  Hey, guys. What's happening?

• 1:52Speaker 00

  Don't worry, man. We're just trying to shift books, dude. We're gonna shift them around, man. But thank you for updating us, because things have changed.

• 2:00Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, a lot has changed. So like, so your, your book was first published in 2011?

• 2:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:06Marcus Parks?

  So what, I mean, what has changed since 2011? How has the, specifically, I know like the, the Tupac case in particular has kind of exploded since then.

• 2:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, because of the recent indictment and arrest and current prosecution of one of the assailants in that murder, things, the dynamics have changed. It's no longer an unsolved case, which it had been for, you know, decades. So 2011, I write the book. Years later, it's a documentary. A few years after that, it's a limited series. And then, you know, so I'm telling my story, people that are familiar with it, you know, we've, but it's, it's been like an evolution, just a journey, but it's so great to, at least in one of the two murders, seeing some, you know, some closure.

• 2:59Marcus Parks?

  Well, I mean, so when Keefe D was a, like, could you kind of give the, our listeners like a background, like who Keefe D was and like how he, you know, what role he played in Tupac's murder?

• 3:11Speaker 02

  Sure. So the night that Tupac was shot, he'd gotten into a fight. He actually went over and kind of sucker punched a guy that was in the hotel lobby, the casino lobby in Las Vegas. He had, Tupac had ran over and sucker punched a guy named Orlando Anderson, who was a gang member from Compton, California. And later that night, that individual, along with three of his gang associates, including his uncle, a guy named Dwayne Davis, AKA Keefe D, they all go to retaliate. They track Tupac down, they run into him just off the strip in Las Vegas, and the individual

• 3:55Speaker 02

  that, with a firearm, and shoots Tupac, who dies six days later. So that's kind of who Keefe D was. He was the one who secured the gun. He gave the gun to his nephew, who was in the backseat. Keefe D was in the front passenger seat, and he's the last man standing. He went on to brag about his role in the murder, and his confessions are what actually landed him in trouble.

• 4:21Speaker 00

  Why did it take so long? Because he's been bragging openly about, about being involved in this for a long time. Is it, is it simply because, well, no, no real guilty person would just tell the world multiple times that they've done something terrible? Or is it just, how do you, is it about putting together the evidence?

• 4:42Speaker 02

  It was a perfect storm of stupidity on his part. So he confesses to us back in 2009, but it's done under what's known as a proffer agreement. It's a, an agreement between him, his attorney, and the government at the time.

• 4:58Marcus Parks?

  Oh, the queen for a day.

• 5:00Speaker 02

  The queen for a day. It's another term for it. And so he sits down with us, confesses to his role in the murder, and then for whatever reason, believes that that agreement extends into the public. So when you're having this conversation with law enforcement, you know, we're not, we honor our agreement. We're not going to use your own self-incriminating statements. However, when you go out and brag to the world about it, you're no longer under the conditions of that agreement. He either didn't misunderstand it or disregarded it and wanted to go out and see what kind of, you know, attention he could get for himself.

• 5:34Speaker 03

  Now, I've got a question about the car in particular. So if, if I remember correctly, Keefe D was in the front seat and he handed the gun that they got from Zip, the drug dealer in New York. And, but who was the one who actually fired it? Was it DeAndre or was it Orlando?

• 5:53Speaker 02

  According to Keefe D, DeAndre was in the best position to fire, because he was in the passenger, he was in the rear seat of the Cadillac closest to Tupac. So he is right behind his own driver. And so of course Tupac is adjacent in the vehicle, in the passenger seat. So DeAndre is in the best position, but Keefe D says when he went to hand it to DeAndre, DeAndre was like, man, I, no thank you, I'm, don't put this on me. Well, Orlando, who is the gangster in the backseat who had even sucker punched, it's really his job. He's the one had, who had been, you know, confronted and, and slugged by Tupac.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  So Orlando takes the gun, leans over DeAndre out the window, and begins shooting into the vehicle, striking Tupac.

• 6:44Speaker 03

  Now, do you think, do you think Orlando's confidence was like really escalated because he was wearing a Dan Marino jersey?

• 6:52Speaker 00

  This is coming from a Dolphins fan. He's a Dolphins fan.

• 7:01Speaker 03

  Sorry, I couldn't. He couldn't help it, no. So the, they were planning on assassinating him that night, no matter what, correct? Weren't they looking to do it at the after-party at the 662 Club?

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, the, everybody knew that Tupac and Suge and the rest of their entourage were all going over to the Club 662, which Tupac was going to perform, Mike Tyson was going to make an appearance. So it was well broadcast that that's where they would be. However, when Keefe D, Orlando, and the rest of them got over there, they realized like this is not the, this isn't the right place to try to handle this. There's cops in the parking lot, there's other gang members. They realized that that just wasn't going to be a practical place to try to retaliate. And just by fate, when they leave, they go down the road, and that's where they encounter

• 7:54Speaker 02

  Suge and Tupac, driving towards the club, and take advantage of that opportunity.

• 8:00Marcus Parks?

  Well, I mean, if we go back to, you know, them being in Las Vegas for this purpose, like one of the, the questions that we had during our series that, you know, we never really got, and we never really settled on a satisfying answer, was as far as like P Diddy's role in this.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 8:19Marcus Parks?

  We, we could never quite land on whether P Diddy like suggested like, hey, it would be nice if somebody took care of Tupac, or if P Diddy actually said like, I will pay you money if you kill this man for me. If you, or if you kill him and Suge Knight for me. So.

• 8:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, it seemed just like a fun suggestion from P Diddy from one angle, but then the other, or was it an organized hit?

• 8:47Marcus Parks?

  Yeah. What do you think?

• 8:49Speaker 02

  I think it lies in that middle ground. I think that Puffy was really afraid that, you know, he had a target on his back. He knew when he came to L.A. that, you know, he was a dead man walking. He really understood the seriousness of what was going on. And it was out of that sense of fear and desperation that he makes the solicitation. It was like, hey, man, somebody's got to help me out. You need to take care of these guys. I need, you know, I need protection. Can you handle this? Well, he's talking to these guys that are from South Central Los Angeles, from Compton, that don't think twice about shooting somebody.

• 9:28Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 9:29Speaker 02

  And so I, I think it was the fear and desperation in this kind of exaggerated conversation from Puffy. Problem is, he's talking about to guys that have no problem doing this in real life. So I think it's a combination.

• 9:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, if he did it at a local. Improv troupe, they would have just done a scene about it. But because he told it to guys that kill people, they were like, oh, we do this.

• 9:57Marcus Parks?

  Well, that was another, that was another one of the, I guess, central themes of our series. Like with a lot of these guys is like, be careful what you pretend to be. And it seemed like a lot of these guys were pretending and did not realize that they had stepped into a very real world.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Tupac not being from, you know, the world of gangs had ingratiated himself with these gang members that were affiliated with Death Row Records. And he, he had a sense of brotherhood, you know, he had a sense of belonging with these guys who, who had his back. And so when an opportunity came for him to prove to them that, you know, he, he equally had their back is when he stepped into a hornet's nest and took on a fight that he couldn't finish. And so that's really where he got himself into trouble was trying to be something that he wasn't.

• 10:49Speaker 00

  What, at what point do these guys, somebody like P. Diddy, become a musician and go from a musician to a human trafficker?

• 10:56Speaker 02

  I, you know, that was never part of our purview. We never saw that. It, that was all very well hidden. And now that it's coming to the surface and being exposed, like we never, none of that was being brought to our attention um, during that period of time. I don't know what was happening back in New York with investigators that were perhaps investigating Bad Boy Records as a racketeering organization back in the nineties. I don't know what they knew, but for our purposes, we never had any information about him being, um, you know, this, who we are beginning to see him as today.

• 11:37Speaker 00

  Yes, it's really strange. It's like, it's kind of crazy because all these guys, it was just kind of be, it was more like a straight up beef, like really guys fighting with each other, but it turns out that some of these guys are really running cryptic criminal enterprises underneath, which is already very challenging. Being a professional musician is very difficult. I feel like adding all of this other stuff is so much harder.

• 12:02Marcus Parks?

  So you're, you're LAPD, correct?

• 12:05Speaker 02

  Was, I'm retired.

• 12:06Marcus Parks?

  You were LAPD, so like, so this murder occurred in Las Vegas. So how did you get involved with this? And how, did, how was your experience working with Las Vegas PD? Because I had, I had heard rumors that the Las Vegas PD kind of drug, drugged their feet quite a bit on the investigation.

• 12:30Speaker 02

  So I'm a Johnny come lately. I don't get involved in this thing till almost 10 years after the fact. I come along in 2006, working on the cold case murder of Biggie Smalls, which was a Las Vegas, I'm sorry, which was a Los Angeles case. And so in the pursuit of trying to solve Biggie's murder is when we stumble upon Kefie D. And we have reason to believe he potentially had information on Biggie's murder. But when we confront him on that, he's like, I can't help you with that. That wasn't us, but what I can tell you about is the Tupac murder, because that was us.

• 13:09Speaker 02

  And so that's how it opened the door to Tupac's murder, even though it happened in Las Vegas.

• 13:17Marcus Parks?

  It's incredible.

• 13:17Speaker 00

  So where are we at now with the Biggie Smalls investigation? So now we, because still technically it's unsolved, right?

• 13:25Speaker 02

  Technically it's unsolved. Uh, we have a similar type of thing in the Biggie case as we had in the Tupac case in that we have a confessing co-conspirator who was a, one of Suge Knight's baby's mamas. And, uh, she confessed her, her role in that murder in implicated both Suge Knight and the shooter, which was a gang member that was associated with Suge named Wardell Fouse. So a female confessed to her role in that murder. It's a bona fide confession. It's one that we believe to be true. Uh, however, the shooter Fouse was killed in 2002.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  And of course Suge Knight is, you know, in prison for an unrelated murder.

• 14:11Speaker 00

  And he's blind, so it's so hard for him to kind of discern what's going on anywhere around him. He, he must be so confused at all times.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think he can see the, the.

• 14:25Speaker 00

  The consequences of his actions.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  The bad pun.

• 14:29Speaker 00

  Have you met Suge Knight? Have you done any, have you interviewed him or talked with him at all about this?

• 14:36Speaker 02

  No, I'd never had any FaceTime with Suge. I spent a lot of time surveilling him, following him around and, you know, watching his activities. And then of course, listened to him on phone calls and, uh, requested an interview with him, but it was declined. He didn't want to be interviewed, so I've never had the Face. But I already know what it would be like. It would just him being smug and having smart ass answers. You're never going to get the truth from Suge Knight.

• 15:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, no.

• 15:07Marcus Parks?

  Have you listened to his podcast?

• 15:10Speaker 02

  I, I've listened to a few episodes.

• 15:12Marcus Parks?

  What did you think of it?

• 15:13Speaker 00

  That's my point.

• 15:14Speaker 03

  Here's a podcast from prison?

• 15:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:16Speaker 03

  Suge Knight is a prison podcast?

• 15:17Marcus Parks?

  It's called Colette Call.

• 15:21Speaker 00

  That's a great name.

• 15:22Marcus Parks?

  It's expensive to produce.

• 15:26Marcus Parks?

  But yeah, was it, so it's just basically, it sounds like him just giving smart ass answers?

• 15:31Speaker 02

  It's just him being, being Suge, you know, he just comes out and blames everybody else for his problems and, you know, throws his, uh, his, his opponents under the bus. It's, it is actually a brilliant idea. Whoever came up with that concept and got Suge to agree to do all these phone calls, pretty smart. Um, but it's entertaining, but there's no value of truth in it.

• 15:54Speaker 00

  Sure. Yeah, because even just looking at this, it's just him being like, I've, the one name of an episode of Colette Call with Suge Knight is like, I salute the women. And you're like, I don't know if Suge is.

• 16:07Speaker 03

  You know, I met Suge Knight one time at the Comedy Store and, uh, he didn't want to talk about this at all.

• 16:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, but no, he almost ran, uh, him and Cat Williams tried to run us off the road afterwards. It was very, uh, they were having a great time.

• 16:23Marcus Parks?

  That sounds terrifying.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, especially because he ended up killing somebody with his car.

• 16:26Marcus Parks?

  Yep.

• 16:26Speaker 03

  Uh, but.

• 16:30Speaker 03

  So when it comes to the, the, the Biggie murder, is it, do we think it was Crips or Bloods? Or do you think it was, uh, outside? Because it could have just been everyone from LA did both of these murders.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, it was people from LA, except it, you know, the Crips had killed Tupac and the Bloods had killed Biggie. So it all came down to gang activity, gang rivalry. So you got to think about this conflict at three different lay, lay, levels. You had Puffy and Suge were at odds, right? Biggie and Tupac were at odds. Bad Boy and Death Row were at odds. And then of course, they were associating with gangs that were historically enemies. And so there's four different levels of conflict that had gone back for years, all the way back to 1994. You know, and so, uh, it all just culminated in Tupac getting shot and Biggie getting shot.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  But it was all just gangsters doing what gangsters do.

• 17:31Marcus Parks?

  And after, um, Biggie was shot, like, you know, to the point of it, you know, just to ask, was there an escalation, like, you know, like smaller skirmishes that, you know, the public just kind of didn't know about? Or was Biggie like sort of the high watermark of that particular feud?

• 17:49Speaker 02

  No, the high watermark of the feud was actually Tupac. Because after Tupac gets shot in Las Vegas, then back in Compton, a 10 day war started between in the Blood associates of Suge Knight and the Crip associates of, of, uh, Puffy Combs. Of, so the war started that lasted 10 days and claimed several bodies. Um, so that happened after Tupac. And then it just continued to go, but once Tupac died and Suge went to jail, everything kind of seemed to, uh,

• 18:25Speaker 02

  mellow out and calm down. And that's why I think that when Puffy Combs and, um, Biggie come to Los Angeles, they figure that the coast is clear.

• 18:36Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  And that it's all put behind them. And they had a false sense of security. And they walked right into a, a death trap.

• 18:45Speaker 00

  Do you think that these days, have you ever talked to these guys in more recent years? Like, do they ever regret these lifestyles that led them to this? Like this idea, because we did, when we did our series, I'm still always haunted by the, the idea of you're, you're pretending to be this thing. And then it all becomes very real around you. Like, and yes, they're a mixture of real criminals, but also they, a lot of these guys are just artists mixed in with criminals that don't know that they're kind of getting themselves in deep trouble. But like, do you, do you think that after the fact, like, did, did anyone learn anything from their murders?

• 19:22Speaker 02

  It's a really great question and you have to, like, you, look, there are guys, for instance, one of the main, the heads of the Mob Pyru, um, gang, which was the gang that was affiliated with Death Row Records, Suge Knight's kind of gang entourage. The head of them was a guy named Mob James. And he's completely, you know, um, evolved beyond the gangs and has remorse and, and is trying to help youths at risk who want to go into gangs. So there are some guys that have transitioned out of that lifestyle and are trying to do good things. But meanwhile, there's a lot of guys like Kefie D who says, you know, I'm a Southside Crip for life.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  And then still continues to, you know, act like a 15 year old when he's 60.

• 20:14Marcus Parks?

  How did you feel when?

• 20:15Speaker 02

  Forgive my cough, I've got some allergies.

• 20:18Speaker 00

  Oh, you're fine, no worries.

• 20:19Marcus Parks?

  So, so how did you feel when Kefie D was arrested and he had a copy of your book?

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Well, it's interesting because that's going to be his whole self-defense is that, well, other people were benefiting financially from the story. So that's why I'm telling my story. So that's going to be his defense. And I don't think it's going to hold water. I think that he's going to end up getting convicted and this whole thing will be put behind us.

• 20:47Marcus Parks?

  Well, yeah, I mean, he wrote a memoir in which he fully and completely confessed to being a part of the murder.

• 20:55Speaker 00

  He just kind of thought that I think what you're saying is right is that he did not understand that it does not mean that you are legal to say it wherever you want.

• 21:04Marcus Parks?

  Yes. And I don't think his age, his literary, whoever ghost wrote that for him, I don't think they wanted him to know.

• 21:11Speaker 00

  No, because how are you going to sell books?

• 21:13Marcus Parks?

  Exactly.

• 21:13Speaker 00

  Sell books recanting the confession? No, you're going to sell it, be a tell it, spill in the beans.

• 21:19Speaker 03

  What do we know? Now Orlando Anderson, who we think was the shooter in the Tupac murder, what do we know? Because he was killed shortly afterwards. What do we know about that?

• 21:30Speaker 02

  Well, we know Orlando was suspected of committing at least one other murder prior to shooting Tupac. And so on the, in 1998, which would have been two years after Tupac's murder, Orlando Anderson and a guy named Michael Dero ran into some guys that were

• 21:54Speaker 02

  attempting to collect a drug debt. And they got into a shooting in situation where Orlando ends up getting shot and killed. And Michael Dero, of the four people that were involved in that conflict, three of them died. Michael Dero, who was the last man standing, ends up getting charged and convicted of all three murders under what's known as the California felony murder rule. So if you participate in a crime and people get killed, even though that was not the intention, you know, like if you go to do a robbery and one of your robbery partner shoots the clerk, but you're going to catch a murder case, even though you never went into, you know, into it with that intent. So that's how Orlando dies. He

• 22:39Speaker 02

  dies in a attempt to collect a drug debt and, and then his partner in that ended up getting three life sentences.

• 22:48Marcus Parks?

  My God. So when it comes to the Biggie Smalls murder, like when it, as far as like cold cases go of that sort, like how often is it the case where you know who did it? And you absolutely know, but you just don't have the proof. Is that, does that kind of come up a lot in these sorts of cases?

• 23:09Speaker 02

  It happens all the time. In fact, most gang cases are like that. In Los Angeles, we only solve about 50 to 60% of our murders. And, but we probably know who did it 90% of the time.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  So it's, it is definitely a case of it's not what you know, it's what you can prove.

• 23:31Marcus Parks?

  Sure.

• 23:32Speaker 02

  And that's a, that's a tall order sometimes to be able to hold somebody accountable beyond a reasonable doubt.

• 23:39Speaker 00

  Do you ever just want to get back in? There are never a case that shows up and be like, I tried to get out, but they brought me back. Like, are you going to be living in a houseboat coming back?

• 23:53Speaker 02

  That's not me, man.

• 23:56Speaker 02

  That is most certainly not me. The day I left was the day I never looked back.

• 24:01Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, my dad was a cop. He said the same.

• 24:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:03Marcus Parks?

  He's like, I don't want response. He's like, I don't want responsibility ever again.

• 24:06Speaker 03

  Why do you think, you know, this might just be my own personal judgment? And if I'm wrong, please tell me. But why does it seem like LAPD isn't really concerned with solving Biggie's murder?

• 24:18Speaker 02

  That's a fair question. And I don't think that, you know, this is a massive agency with hundreds and hundreds of unsolved murders. And I don't think that they're,

• 24:31Speaker 02

  maybe there's a sense of indifference because it's just another murder victim to an agency like that. And they had already spent, you know, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, not only trying to solve it, but defending themselves against the false accusations of their involvement. And so, you know, it's, it was an exhausted, it was an exhausted case. Investigators did just about everything they could. And even though internally, everybody perceives the case as being solved, the district attorney won't file charges, which allows us to officially solve it because of the complexity of you've

• 25:13Speaker 02

  got a baby mama who is not going to testify, who's got perjury issues in her past, and she's the only person that can point the finger at Suge, who's alive. So it's, it's a, it's an, it's an impossible case to try to prosecute. And without the DA, it'll never be a closed case.

• 25:35Marcus Parks?

  But we don't. But we know who did it. That's

• 25:38Speaker 00

  It's wild.

• 25:39Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, that's not, that's not better known.

• 25:42Speaker 00

  Would you think it's because also now, like, all the main players are dead? So the guys are dead. Like, you got a couple of people that are left that like, that are involved. But maybe it's like, well, if the guy who pulled the trigger is already dead, then what do we even care? Even though you're really trying to create closure for the family? That's kind of like one aspect of it, right? And then, or is it also, it probably looks good to clear it.

• 26:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I agree with you. I think they ought to. I think that they ought to, you know, just say, hey, we know what we know. Based on what we know, let's clear the case for history purposes.

• 26:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:16Speaker 03

  Get it off the books.

• 26:18Speaker 02

  Get it off the books. And I agree with you 100%. This was a very closed conspiracy in the sense that there's only three people, the shooter, the intermediary, which is the girl, and Suge. The shooter's dead. The girl has limited immunity and Suge is already in jail for murder. So it's, what do you really do with that? You're not going to go make a deal with Suge like, hey, we'll give you some consideration on the murder case that you're convicted of, if you'll tell us about another murder that you did.

• 26:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Very difficult. How do we prepare ourselves for the upcoming war of Taylor Swift versus the rest of us?

• 27:01Speaker 00

  How do we stop this? How do we stop it now before she becomes the emperor she believes she is?

• 27:07Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, I just came from Kansas and I was staying with some friends in Kansas City. We were talking about Taylor and her notability, you know, notoriety in Kansas City now. And I guess her and Travis had just bought this property behind a big Catholic church down the road from where I was staying. And if you get in the right position, evidently, you know, a bunch of looky-loos and other people are trying to figure out, because they just bought a house there together, evidently. I don't know if I, I don't know, I don't know if I should even be saying this.

• 27:39Speaker 00

  Who gives a shit? You know, I feel like that's where they live, right?

• 27:44Speaker 03

  Twenty houses, I'm sure.

• 27:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, she lives, she lives in a floating, she lives in space. It's like, she could live anywhere.

• 27:53Speaker 03

  She bought Elsa's Ice Castle.

• 27:54Speaker 00

  She could come to me at my house. She could just buy my house from me and live in my house if she wanted to, against my will.

• 28:01Speaker 02

  She's already cloned herself and like frozen herself for the future.

• 28:04Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's going to be performing on Jupiter.

• 28:07Speaker 03

  Now, as someone who worked so tightly in this case, this is going to seem silly as a question to ask, but I have to ask, because I'm curious, if you would think, is there any chance of a beef today, like with Kendrick Lamar and Drake, getting blown out of proportion, like something that happened back then? Or has everyone learned their lesson?

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Most certainly, they have learned their lessons. All you have to Google is dead rappers.

• 28:35Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  And it's, it's a never ending list.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 28:39Speaker 02

  You know, and it's, it goes forever and it's, it's consistent. There's just rappers just keep getting killed because of their affiliation with people on the streets.

• 28:48Speaker 00

  Have you done any research into the Chicago, like, sub, there's like a hip hop movement that is essentially guys bragging about murders that they've done, that it's not, it's not fake. It's legitimately, they are murdering to rap about it.

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  You should, honestly, it is a fascinating subgenre of hip hop that is like, I'm looking up the name of it right now.

• 29:15Speaker 00

  That is very, very, very intense. That is, but it's they get really, it's like they are purposely taking the sort of pretend out of it. And doing it for real because they want to be able to.

• 29:26Marcus Parks?

  It's not Ice Cube writing poetry.

• 29:28Speaker 00

  No, it's not. It's Drill Rap. That's what it's called. G R I L L. Drill. So it is, it is fascinating, but there's a world of that that's also happening where it's like they're, they've just decided to just do this in this kind of one little world of music.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  Right. Wow. And you wonder where that's going to lead to, you know, is it a, going to be a passing fad? Because all of these guys are, um, you know, going to get convicted because of their songs are, they're simply confessions in real life.

• 29:57Speaker 00

  I do think it eventually, yeah, eventually enough will be arrested that I think it will stop the genre. Because if you arrest each one, eventually they just are rapping in jail.

• 30:10Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, eventually.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  I just, that, that'll be such a great court procedure to watch where you, the defendant is, you know, the defendant is sitting there and they're playing his song and that's what, you know, his.

• 30:22Speaker 00

  And you just see a couple that the jurors just going like, oh shit. Oh, god damn.

• 30:30Marcus Parks?

  I mean, you say that, but I mean, isn't that what they're gonna be doing with Keefy D? Once his, uh, once his case comes up in November?

• 30:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, as it stands, all of the evidence against him is his own statements. And it's gonna be a really interesting trial to watch if it goes to trial because I'm not familiar with anything like this other than, excuse me, you guys remember the jinx?

• 30:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, oh yes.

• 30:55Speaker 02

  Right? With Robert Durst where he, you know, has a hot mic and he talks about, I killed them all. And, uh, and then they use that as evidence against him in his own trial. But this is, this is so much more, uh, like this is just so much more on the nose where Keefy D's writing books and doing podcasts and telling the world intentionally that he was a murderer. As opposed to Robert Durst who unintentionally said it without knowing that his microphone was hot.

• 31:28Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, I mean, he, it was a memoir. He had to go to a ghostwriter and tell him the story and it had to go through like multiple editing rounds and they're like proof and all of that. And still like, I, do you have any idea how he's gonna try to spin this into a not guilty plea?

• 31:47Speaker 02

  Right as it stands, his defense is that he, uh, did it all for entertainment. That he lied to us in 2009 when he confessed, he lied to, uh, Las Vegas P D in 2009 when he was, he did a second proffer, um, interview with them. And then, you know, he's gonna say it was all lies. And then he was just doing it to make money. None of that really holds water because when he's talking to the cops on different occasions back in 2009, there's no promise of making any money. That is all perceived as being confidential information.

• 32:22Speaker 00

  Yeah. Oh yeah. And especially when they cut to the video footage of him confessing where he's got like sunglasses on and he's super happy about it. Like he's super, super invested in the story.

• 32:35Speaker 02

  Nobody loves Keefy D like Keefy D.

• 32:37Speaker 00

  No, he really does. And it, but I think it's, it's good for people to see though. I do think that as we go along in society, there's gonna be more and more of this style of, you went on a podcast and told everybody exactly what you did. Like, I feel like that's gonna happen a lot.

• 32:55Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:56Speaker 00

  It's good for the genre. It's good for podcasting.

• 32:58Marcus Parks?

  It is.

• 32:59Speaker 03

  Now with all this stuff going on with Puffy right now, uh, do you think that any of, you know, Tupac's murder will be thrown into this trial or they're just gonna keep it all out of this?

• 33:11Speaker 02

  You mean Biggie's murder getting thrown into Tupac's trial?

• 33:14Speaker 03

  Uh, no, Tupac's murder getting, uh, thrown into Puff Daddy's trial coming up.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  Oh, and yeah, okay, I got you. I'm sorry. Um, not really. I think they'll keep everything really compartmentalized. If he has human trafficking issues, those will stay compartmentalized. Unless the feds back in New York do a, a very comprehensive racketeering investigation where they are trying to incorporate just all types of different crimes over a long history of time. Um, but even with that, I just don't see, um, anybody making official allegations against Diddy for Tupac's murder with, based only on Keefy D's confession.

• 34:01Marcus Parks?

  Right, yes.

• 34:01Speaker 03

  Wasn't there a situation where Puff Daddy allegedly offered $1 million for the murder of, uh, Suge Knight and Tupac? And then apparently he paid 500,000 to, uh, the drug dealer in New York, Zip? Like, is there something like, and then Keefy D didn't get his cut? Is that like, that, that is like a rumor I heard about. I don't know what the truth is to that.

• 34:25Speaker 00

  Also Zip's a great name for a drug dealer.

• 34:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:28Speaker 03

  Who owns a nightclub called The Zip Code?

• 34:30Marcus Parks?

  That's, that's great.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, that, I know. That's pretty clever. Uh, we, I, to your, there's two questions there and both are actually true, but they're separate. So you've got the, the thing with, um, Keefy D.

• 34:48Speaker 03

  Puffy offered a million dollars for the murder of Tupac and Suge Knight, correct?

• 34:53Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 34:54Speaker 03

  And then he, after Tupac was killed, he gave 500,000 to Zip. Who was supposed to give that, who was supposed to broker the deal with Keefy D is what.

• 35:07Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 35:08Speaker 03

  And so, how do we, well, you know, how, how do you not pin that on Puffy?

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Got you. Okay. So I got a little sidetracked there because way back when, back in the late nineties, there was a guy that worked for Puffy who filed a lawsuit against him. His name, I think his name was Kirk Burrows. He was a producer. And he had filed a lawsuit against Puffy. And in his lawsuit, he claimed that back then, Puffy had solicited for $1 million to hit on Tupac Shakur. And then that case got settled out of court for a certain amount of money. And so that was interesting for us as Johnny Come Lately investigators. And we're listening to Keefy D talk about a million dollar bounty on a hit. Somebody was already saying that 10 years before in a different civil lawsuit.

• 36:00Speaker 02

  So it lent it some legitimacy to what Keefy D was claiming. Now, the second part of that being this, this thing with Zip, um, Zip's dead as you know. And whether or not that money was ever paid, we've never been able to identify a paper trail. So if Puffy had given Zip the $500,000 because only half the job was done because they didn't kill Suge. We don't know. It's just a, it's an urban legend that could be true, but we just don't have any evidence to say it's true.

• 36:33Marcus Parks?

  Oh man, does that mean the bounty's still out on Suge?

• 36:37Speaker 00

  Whoa. Cause I bet he could lose, he could look for somebody to clean up some problems for him right now.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  What if Suge killed himself to collect the bounty?

• 36:47Speaker 00

  Oh, yes.

• 36:52Marcus Parks?

  Here's your inheritance.

• 36:57Speaker 00

  I mean, I am really interested. I feel like that what we're seeing now, like I, I know we keep coming back to Diddy just because this is just gonna be such a big story. It's, it's really, and it's all connected to all of these guys. I actually wonder how many of these other people from these stories are gonna pop up in Diddy's trial. Like when, when you, some of these same characters are gonna come out? And I wonder what that's, who's all gonna end up being a part of his system or not?

• 37:24Marcus Parks?

  And who's still alive?

• 37:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's gonna, I think there's gonna be, um, there's gonna be some artists that are gonna be in a real precarious situation.

• 37:35Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 37:35Speaker 02

  Um, that are gonna have to come out and say, yes, I was a victim of some type of inappropriate sexual, you know, coercion.

• 37:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 37:45Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  Uh, in order to, in order to get the kind of, you know, promotion that I needed. I think there's gonna be some artists that are like not wanting the truth to come out because it reflects so badly on all of them.

• 38:00Speaker 00

  Very much so.

• 38:00Speaker 03

  Yeah. And what is you.

• 38:02Speaker 02

  Cause I think they're all underage.

• 38:03Speaker 00

  Oh, very much so.

• 38:04Speaker 03

  Yeah. Do you think there's any weight to the rumor that Diddy had anything to do with orchestrating the murder of Biggie?

• 38:13Speaker 02

  No, I don't believe any of that's true at all. Um, I think that this is straight retaliation that Suge Knight hired a guy that he knew would do it. He was extremely upset about the fact that Tupac was shot and killed. He himself almost got killed. Death row was, you know, circling the drain at this point. Uh, because they'd lost Tupac, Suge was in jail. And so he just did what you would, you know, he just took matters into his own hands and how to gangster do what gangsters do. The idea that Puffy being involved in Biggie's murder is, it just doesn't, it doesn't hold any water. There's nothing to support that conspiracy theory.

• 38:54Marcus Parks?

  Well, let's go back a little bit. I'm, I'm really interested in that 10 day war that you talked about after Tupac. Like, what did that look like? What, what happened?

• 39:05Speaker 02

  Well, as soon as Tupac was shot in Las Vegas, Suge Knight and the rest of his blood entourage all got together and they knew immediately who it was. They knew, hey, those are the South Side Crips. That was Keefy D and his crew. So when they get back to Los Angeles, to Compton, the following day, um, it's on. It's the green light. You know, it's the, they're all going to go to war. And so for 10 days, Crips, you know, a Southside Crips, he's a mob Pyru or a Looters Park Pyru, they're gonna shoot on sight and vice versa. So the Crips got all of their hardware, all their guns,

• 39:49Speaker 02

  um, you know, collected and began to go on the defensive because they know that the Bloods are gonna be hunting them down. And so you listen to some of the Crip gang members who came forward and told their stories. They're like, man, it was a war zone. You know, we, we knew if we stood out on the street, a car was gonna come driving by and we're gonna get shot at. So we all had to kind of hunker down and, you know, congregate together so that we had, you know, the power in numbers. And it just went on and on until finally, after 10 days, the Compton PD and about 400 other officers from other agencies just started to raid all of the houses to get all the guns and to try to

• 40:29Speaker 02

  quell the gun, you know, to quell the violence. And that kind of mitigated a lot of what was happening. But, you know, it was still on as far as, you know, until it never ends down there, you know, these, these beasts just never end. You're a Blood, I'm a Crip, we're going at it.

• 40:48Marcus Parks?

  Now, with the murder of Biggie Smalls, like you said, this woman was an intermediary. Like what kind of inter- like how, what was her role in the murder of Biggie Smalls?

• 41:00Speaker 02

  So she had a long history of criminal complicity with Suge. Uh, she was the mother of one of his children. Uh, she was this kind of a, for lack of a better term, kind of like a hood girl. She was a girl from the neighborhood that, and she loved Suge. And of course, she was always competing with all the other girls in Suge's life. And so she thought if she could be the one who's really down for him, she's the girl that will do anything, ride or die type of girl. And so, um, she was complicit in, you know, helping him get an illegal,

• 41:40Speaker 02

  um, gambling license in Las Vegas for the club. Uh, she is involved in a bunch of auto fraud. She was involved in his bankruptcy fraud. She was involved in a bunch of white collar stuff with him. And so when Suge went to jail after the beating in Las Vegas, because remember, he was involved in stomping Orlando Anderson down at the MGM. He gets his probation violated and he goes to jail for that. So when Suge's in jail, he can't really communicate with anybody without it being monitored. Now, if you have visitors, you're on the phone, but the deputies can listen to your phone calls. They can listen to your phone calls with people outside of the jail.

• 42:22Speaker 02

  And so they come up with this clever plan where Suge Knight's attorney, a guy named David Kenner, signs paperwork saying, hey, all of these individuals are part of my legal team. And therefore they fall under the privilege of attorney-client communications. You can't listen to them. So David Kenner writes letters allowing people like, um, Suge's girlfriend to come in as a legal aide. And the deputies can't monitor. And that allows her and Suge to have a private conversation. And this is what she tells us. This is how she's explaining how they did this. She says, I was able to go in there. We could have unmonitored visits.

• 43:06Speaker 02

  Um, Suge told me he wanted Biggie shot, you know, he wanted Biggie, um, taken care of. He said, reach out to Poochie, go find Poochie, tell him I'll give him whatever he wants. She comes back, she talks to Suge, she says he wants this much money. Suge says, I'll make them, you know, I'll make sure you get the money. He does. He secures cash for her. She pays Poochie and then Poochie shows up and kills Biggie. So she's the person who's communicating between Suge and the shooter.

• 43:35Marcus Parks?

  It makes me so sad that Biggie Smalls was killed by a man named Poochie.

• 43:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, he didn't deserve that.

• 43:41Marcus Parks?

  He really didn't.

• 43:42Speaker 00

  No, it's Poochie because it's also, uh, someone said it might have been a member of the Nation of Islam? Or is that just like how Poochie dressed when he did the, the killing?

• 43:53Speaker 02

  Another, so there's a conspiracy theory that's been completely disproven, but within that conspiracy theory, um, they thought that a guy named Amir Mohammed was the shooter. Um, because the shooter supposedly was dressed up with a, had a bow tie on. And so this led to, um, people connecting the dots, all these circumstantial dots and forming the collusion that it was a Nation of Islam guy that shot and killed, um, Biggie. Even though that's been disproven, the next thing is, well, why were people describing the shooter as having a bow tie?

• 44:33Speaker 02

  And our explanation of that is that gang, gangsters in Los Angeles were notorious for, um, doing things that would mislead the police. We had gangsters in Los Angeles dressing up in the garb of the Nation of Islam and doing home invasion robberies. Because you get people, you know, unsuspecting, thinking, oh, this is the guy at the front door. He's a Nation of Islam guy. He's selling bean pies. He's soliciting, you know, um, you know, uh, uh, money for this, for this cause. They open the door. Next thing you know, they're just gangsters. They rush in and they rob you. So it was not uncommon for people to dress up in order to mislead the police.

• 45:18Speaker 02

  In fact, in Los Angeles during this period of time, when Blood gang members would do a drive-by against Crips or against any other enemies, they'd often yell out the name of like a Crip gang. You know, they'd be like, oh, Main Street Crips, ba ba ba ba bam. Even though they're Bloods, because when the cops get there and the witnesses say, hey, they drove by and they yelled out. And so it's just this relatively clever way of deflecting attention.

• 45:46Speaker 00

  That's really interesting.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was very common too. And so, you know, when we'd get there and they'd say, yeah, some guys drove by and yelled Bloodstone Villains. It's a Blood gang. We're like, yeah, it means nothing to us because it's probably Crips.

• 46:02Speaker 00

  Wow, that's interesting.

• 46:03Marcus Parks?

  Greg, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate you taking the time.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, thank you for letting us pick your brain.

• 46:09Marcus Parks?

  Yeah. Do you have any, yeah, do you have any other projects coming up that you'd like to plug?

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm working on a couple of things. You guys remember back in 2013 when, uh, there was an LAPD officer named Christopher Dorner?

• 46:20Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. Never put Dorner in a corner. Oh, wow.

• 46:25Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 46:29Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, can't corner the Dorner. No, it's, uh,

• 46:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's pretty good. Unfortunately, there's things about that story that aren't laughable.

• 46:42Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no, no. That's just what we do here.

• 46:45Speaker 02

  People that got killed and

• 46:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're just problems. We're just problems.

• 46:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I got you, man. Yeah. So I'm trying to get that story off. Tell that story because I think it's a really timely story. Yeah, it's a good one.

• 46:57Speaker 00

  It's very interesting. Yeah. Cause we read his manifesto. He was one of, we did an episode on manifesto killers and he was one of the first ones. You kind of read it and was like, he's got some points in here, but most of the time he's a total great, you know, he, he didn't do it right. Killed a bunch of people.

• 47:11Marcus Parks?

  Yeah, he killed a bunch of people.

• 47:12Speaker 00

  It's not good. It ain't right.

• 47:14Marcus Parks?

  And as far as you know, the only manifesto that has a shout out section.

• 47:17Speaker 00

  Yep, yes.

• 47:19Speaker 02

  That's right. A whole, yeah, an extended shout out section, which is weird in and of itself.

• 47:27Speaker 00

  Um, Greg, thank you so much, man.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, my pleasure, guys. I apologize for my voice. I'm, I'm fighting a cold or some allergies or something. So hopefully you can clean that up.

• 47:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, get some Iverbectam in you. You'll be fine.

• 47:39Speaker 02

  There you go. Some hydrochloroquine.

• 47:45Speaker 02

  The Trump cocktail, I'm on it.

• 47:49Speaker 00

  Straight bleach always works for me.

• 47:55Marcus Parks?

  What an incredibly nice man.

• 47:57Speaker 00

  You know, especially for XLAPD. He's a nice man.

• 48:01Marcus Parks?

  Yeah.

• 48:02Speaker 00

  And he was very knowledgeable, very like, this whole story is, I, I get saddened.

• 48:06Marcus Parks?

  No, it really is because it is the case of, you know, these are a couple of artists. Like, you know, Tupac was a fucking theater kid.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  I know. He was in musicals. Yeah. But then, you know, then he sucker punched the gangster.

• 48:18Marcus Parks?

  Don't do that.

• 48:19Speaker 00

  Never do that.

• 48:21Marcus Parks?

  Just don't do that. Don't try to like, just don't try to impress your friends with that. Just, just be yourself.

• 48:27Speaker 00

  If you're engaging with gangsters, I say the only way to fight them is through dance. Or rap. Which he was good at. They have rap battles for a reason.

• 48:35Marcus Parks?

  That's right.

• 48:36Speaker 00

  So settle your disputes, gentlemen, and some of you ladies with the microphone.

• 48:43Marcus Parks?

  That's right.

• 48:43Speaker 00

  I think that's the only way. It's not cool to go to jail. All right. Last thing I heard, it wasn't trill to be arrested for murder.

• 48:52Marcus Parks?

  Please go see us at patreon.com slash last podcast on the left to see video, uh, versions of these episodes. Follow us on the socials at LP on the left on TikTok and Instagram. Watch all of our shows at twitch.tv slash LPNTV. Go see the Hoop-a-Goo-Goo game.

• 49:09Speaker 00

  The Hoop-a-Goo-Goo game, HGX2. Yeah, that's right. On YouTube, watch the replay and it's gonna be coming to you, uh, regularly, bi-weekly in September.

• 49:20Marcus Parks?

  Yep.

• 49:21Speaker 00

  You've been listening to Sirius XM. You're welcome.

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