Linda Perry (Part 2)

In Part 2, Linda Perry and Norah keep the conversation going with more stories from the studio and more music, including a song from Linda’s latest album and a fresh take on a classic made famous by an iconic duo.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Norah Jones?

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  If you're a custodial supervisor at a local high school, you know that cleanliness is key and that the best place to get cleaning supplies is from Granger. Granger helps you stay fully stocked on the products you trust, from paper towels and disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Plus, you can rely on Granger for easy reordering, so you never run out of what you need. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:07Speaker 03

  Running a small business takes everything you've got. But with Chase for Business, you're not alone. They bring together local support and a broad range of resources to more than 7 million customers. With a deep understanding of your day-to-day needs, they provide products and guidance built to help you thrive. Right now, earn $500 when you open a new Chase Business Complete Checking account for new business checking customers with qualifying activities. Offer expires January 21, 2027. Chase Business Complete Checking has the flexible tools you need to accept payments, make deposits, and manage your finances with confidence. Learn more at chase.com/podcastbizoffer. Chase, make more of what's yours.

• 1:51Speaker 03

  Fees may apply to Chase Business Complete Checking accounts. The $500 offer is available for new business checking accounts with qualifying activities through January 21, 2027. Eligibility and qualification requirements must be met. Additional restrictions may apply. Please speak with a business banker for more information. J.P. Morgan Chase Bank, N.A., Member FDIC.

• 2:14Norah Jones?

  This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You can visit Norah Jones' channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there. Hi, I'm Norah Jones, and today I'm playing along again with Linda Perry. This is part two.

• 2:28Speaker 04

  I'm just playing along with you.

• 2:35Speaker 04

  I'm just playing along with you.

• 2:41Norah Jones?

  Hi again. Welcome to the second half of our epic hang with Linda Perry.

• 2:46Speaker 05

  That's right, we're back with Linda Perry, whose songwriting and production credits include work with Christina Aguilera, Pink, Gwen Stefani, Alicia Keys, Celine Dion, Adele, and Dolly Parton.

• 2:58Norah Jones?

  Oh, yes, and she talks about her time in the studio with Dolly.

• 3:01Speaker 05

  It's so special.

• 3:02Norah Jones?

  We recorded this before Dolly passed, so that's why we're not crying yet. But I mean, we do get a little emotional talking about it even then.

• 3:12Speaker 05

  Yeah. What a legend. She wrote and produced some of the biggest pop songs of the last few decades, and she has earned Grammy nominations, including Producer of the Year.

• 3:22Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:22Speaker 05

  Very cool. And in this part two, you play something from Linda's new album, which is really special. And you close with a classic that was made famous by a very iconic duo. That's all I'm gonna say.

• 3:36Norah Jones?

  Okay. Yeah.

• 3:38Speaker 05

  Stay tuned.

• 3:39Norah Jones?

  You'll know it. Enjoy. There is some spicy language in this episode, so listener discretion is advised. It's not that bad, but just so you know, it's there.

• 3:52Norah Jones?

  Your process, has it changed since "What's Up?", for instance? Or it's still kind of the same core, like you just have to feel something?

• 4:02Speaker 06

  For me, I don't, honestly, I don't know where it comes from. It's an interesting, you know, I don't know, like I'll, I won't touch an instrument for, you know, I can go a week and not even think about music.

• 4:17Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 4:17Speaker 06

  And I'm okay with that.

• 4:19Norah Jones?

  I'm the same way.

• 4:20Speaker 06

  And all of a sudden, I'll be, you know,

• 4:25Speaker 06

  you know,

• 4:28Speaker 06

  you know, I'll just grab the guitar and then, you know, and I'll just start doing that.

• 4:35Speaker 06

  I'll just play some simple chords like that.

• 4:40Speaker 06

  You know what, okay, oh, that's pretty. And then I'll just like, "Hi, before I wake,

• 4:50Speaker 06

  I'm standing in the shadows,

• 4:54Speaker 06

  I'm feeling heartbreak." And I'm like, okay, I'm in country, I don't know what that is. "And we are making this up now as I'm staring

• 5:06Speaker 06

  deep into your eyes.

• 5:10Speaker 06

  I'll never lie." You know, and then things like that will just start happening, and I always push my thing. So anytime I get compelled to go to my instrument, I always bring my phone out and I put it out. Anytime I walk into my studio, I instantly start recording.

• 5:26Norah Jones?

  Just in case you catch something.

• 5:27Speaker 06

  Because I move quick.

• 5:28Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 5:29Speaker 06

  I'm out, you know, I go in and out of things. And when I'm writing with people, three things will show up, you know? Because their energy keeps shifting. So I shift with the energy. So somebody could start off, you know, like that, and then all of a sudden I'll be on,

• 5:49Speaker 06

  it's like, okay, this energy's here. "And I'm walking on the sand, I'm taking everything that you need," you know, whatever. And then all of a sudden, I'll be all,

• 6:00Speaker 06

  you know, and then they're like, what are you doing? I'm like, you're changing on me. So that's why I feel like I'm definitely tuning in to people's energy, because when they shift, I shift. So I think that the songwriting, it's coming somewhere else.

• 6:18Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 6:19Speaker 06

  I'm just a channel, I'm just, I'm just the tool that it's using. I truly believe that.

• 6:25Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 6:25Speaker 06

  And I'm just open, I'm aware. I'm aware of something's coming. I get signs, because it's, I start, I get that, there's a feeling, it's almost, it feels like heartbreak. It almost feels like heartbreak. And then I'm, I have to go to the instrument, because I'm feeling something. And then all of a sudden, something just shows up. And, and sometimes I'll write it, but what I'll do is I'll loop it. And I'll just keep, until the words all show up. But I never write anything down.

• 6:57Norah Jones?

  You never write anything down?

• 6:58Speaker 06

  Not until later, after I've discovered what the words are.

• 7:02Norah Jones?

  Okay.

• 7:03Speaker 06

  Then I go and I listen, I write the lyrics down, and then I start filling in the holes.

• 7:07Norah Jones?

  Okay.

• 7:07Speaker 06

  You know, that's pretty much how my writing goes.

• 7:10Norah Jones?

  That's kind of similar to how I've been writing lately.

• 7:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 7:12Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 7:13Speaker 06

  It's just, it's just, because it's not thinking, like a lot of people go, don't you get writer's block? I'm like, no, writer's block is a thinker's problem.

• 7:21Norah Jones?

  It's when you're sitting down and you're like, I'm going to write a song.

• 7:24Speaker 06

  That's a thinker's problem. That's somebody who's coming at it from the wrong, to me, intention. You know, I understand, like, I've tried to do that, and I kind, because I like to explore all, all methods. And I'll be, okay, I'm gonna write a song about, you know, whatever. And then I'll, okay, 127 BPM? You know, and I'll get into the, you know, calculations of it.

• 7:48Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 7:49Speaker 06

  It's like, you know, something dumb will come, but sometimes dumb is good, you know? And, but I don't mind being silly. So I don't, I don't mind that vulnerability of being embarrassing and saying something dumb. And I think that's one of the things I try to get, you know, I remember when I worked with Christina Aguilera for the first time, I was trying to get her, she's like, I need lyrics. I'm like, no, no, just, you need to feel.

• 8:19Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 8:19Speaker 06

  So just say stuff. She's like, but Linda, I don't, I'm not, I'm not like that, I'm not like you. And I'm like, yes, you are. You are very much like me.

• 8:28Norah Jones?

  You just stop yourself.

• 8:28Speaker 06

  Yeah, you get out of that, you're insecure right now. And then she'd be all, you know? And then all of a sudden, she would start going. You know, all of them would end up trusting me at some point, and then they would see the difference. And then, a lot of it too, is songs that didn't need to be heard. They were just songs that need to be written.

• 8:48Norah Jones?

  You just get it out, yeah.

• 8:50Speaker 06

  So that's how I'd go, you know? And, and I, I wish I understood it more, but I feel like I don't need to. I'm like, it's like, the song is there. And if I'm open and I feel comfortable, it just, it just shows up.

• 9:04Norah Jones?

  Well, that's when the magic happens. When you're, when you're, when it happens like that, that's the best kind of songs.

• 9:11Speaker 06

  And I think, to what you were saying earlier, which I do believe, like, you know, when you come up with songs on that first moment, and then you want to record it, because it's that vocal that ends up being the most important part of that, that, you know, that song, because there's a different emotion

• 9:29Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 9:30Speaker 06

  that we have. When we're first learning something, then, then we have, after we've played it a few times and got jaded with it and explored it, and what it could be, and what, you know, all that stuff.

• 9:40Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 9:41Speaker 06

  Then we start perfecting. And I think that's when the demo is extremely important. So I always tell everybody, no matter what, record your vocal well.

• 9:51Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 9:51Speaker 06

  Always.

• 9:52Norah Jones?

  Just in case.

• 9:52Speaker 06

  Record it well, because that could be your master.

• 9:55Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 9:55Speaker 06

  You know?

• 9:56Norah Jones?

  I've usually just used demos.

• 9:58Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 9:59Norah Jones?

  Yeah. I've heard that Christina's version of "Beautiful" was the demo, is that true?

• 10:04Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was a total demo. And, you know, and she fought on that for months and then realized, you know,

• 10:11Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 10:12Speaker 06

  that she was, she laughed at herself, because I let her, you know,

• 10:16Norah Jones?

  You let her go all the way around the world to come back to the same place?

• 10:19Speaker 06

  No, she, so it was seven months of her, I'm gonna do that vocal again. I'm like, no, you're gonna ruin it. She's like, I know it better now. I know, I know, that's why you're gonna ruin it. And so right before the end of the record was, you know, everybody was turning everything in. I'm like, okay, I'll let you. So we were in Conway, she was in there. I'm like, okay, I'll come down, I'll put up the track, you know, and let's just see. And I already knew, so she's in there, push play, record, and...

• 10:47Speaker 06

  I mean, it was like a Ferrari from zero to sixty. She got to her top note in like fucking, you know, fifteen seconds. And then I just stopped. I'm like, no. And she started laughing. She's like, you're totally right. I'm gonna ruin the song. I'm like, exactly.

• 11:04Norah Jones?

  Well, when you have an instrument that finely tuned, it's hard to imagine it being so raw and vulnerable, maybe. I don't know.

• 11:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, well, I think she came from that. You know, a lot of those girls do. They came from this very perfect. Your vocals have to be, you know, tuned perfectly. All their ad libs, those weren't just ad libs. They were crafted.

• 11:27Norah Jones?

  Exactly.

• 11:28Speaker 06

  Ad libs, you know, all of that. You know, and Christina would let a whole word, you know, a couple of words go by out of tune, but she would never let an ad lib go by out of tune. She's like, right there, right there. And I'm like, what do you mean? Between the eh and the eh? And she's like, yeah, it's out of tune. Let me do that again. And I'm like, are you fucking fucking with me right now? She's like, no. I'm like, okay. And then the punch, because I was on tape, be so fucking fast. I'm like, I don't know if I can do it.

• 12:02Norah Jones?

  I've gotten in that space, though, where you overthink stuff and you just think it has to be perfect.

• 12:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, but, you know, but most of those girls came from that place. And so I think it was really.

• 12:12Norah Jones?

  And they're capable of perfection, too.

• 12:14Speaker 06

  Yes, they are.

• 12:14Norah Jones?

  They hold themselves to a high standard because they.

• 12:17Speaker 06

  They can do it, yeah.

• 12:17Norah Jones?

  They can.

• 12:18Speaker 06

  But I thought it was really brave of Christina to allow it to fly. And mind you, that track was only sixteen tracks, too, in a time where people were using sixteen tracks on an acoustic guitar. You know, like, there was like ninety to a hundred. They were putting two Pro Tools systems together to do those tracks back in, what, two thousand two, two thousand three? And mine was sixteen tracks. It was piano, drums, bass, a quartet, vocal, some backgrounds.

• 12:48Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 12:48Speaker 06

  A Moog Mellotron, you know. It was all like, you know, I think I had three microphones on the drums. And it was awesome, you know, because it was just, it was so bare bones. And that was brave of her to accept that as, you know, like, this is, this is my finished. It was a demo. It was a great demo.

• 13:06Norah Jones?

  It was beautiful, though.

• 13:07Speaker 06

  And that's the way I want, I mean, I agree with you. Like, to me, I feel like I do really good demos.

• 13:13Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 13:13Speaker 06

  I don't like to, you know, produce things up.

• 13:16Norah Jones?

  I think about the sixties. I mean, did they overthink everything?

• 13:22Speaker 06

  No, even the fifties, when they were in those tiny little rooms.

• 13:24Norah Jones?

  Yeah, and isn't it like the best music?

• 13:26Speaker 06

  With one microphone.

• 13:27Norah Jones?

  People are just playing, right?

• 13:29Speaker 06

  Those are the greatest.

• 13:30Norah Jones?

  The greatest recordings ever.

• 13:32Speaker 06

  Because you're like, and you know, there's only one microphone in there.

• 13:35Norah Jones?

  Yeah, you know, they're not even overdubbing.

• 13:37Speaker 06

  Yeah, and they're just, and they're incredible musicians. They probably went through it a couple of times and all of a sudden, here they are. It's like, what the hell?

• 13:45Norah Jones?

  If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed. Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today.

• 14:30Norah Jones?

  Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 14:40Speaker 07

  Hey, what's up? This is Kelvin Washington from The I Couple with Rob Parker and Kelvin Washington. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability, and it starts with a great deal on off-road-ready Tacoma or a half-ton Tundra. Two of Toyota's longest-lasting trucks, combining power for work, tech for adventures, and style in between. Built on a reputation for quality and reliability, Toyota trucks are known for holding their value, which could mean big savings when it's time for your next Toyota. So get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for more. Toyota, let's go places.

• 15:17Speaker 02

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 15:47Speaker 04

  Your business operates under pressure, and you need control over your data. But IBM Research shows only nine percent of companies have real oversight of their technology. IBM's Open Hybrid Cloud approach is designed to give you visibility with built-in governance tools, data sovereignty, and compliance reporting. It's another way IBM helps you stay in control of your data. Let's create smarter business. IBM. Visit ibm.com to learn more.

• 16:17Norah Jones?

  And you recorded Beautiful on the new album?

• 16:19Speaker 06

  I did. I did a version of it. Not intentional, you know, like, you know, the album, it tells this story about this, you know, I had a very complex relationship with my mom, very abusive. You know, I was brought up never good enough, all that, you know, the same, you know, the abuse stories, all of that stuff. And it was pretty, it was pretty, it was pretty heavy. It was a heavy lifestyle to be brought into. And so the album starts with that kind of explaining a little bit about it. And then, then, then I transition, because she dies.

• 17:02Speaker 06

  And then I transition after that song, What Lies With You. And I start trying to find, I put a bossa nova in there. My mom's Brazilian, and I've never done that style of music. I always wanted to.

• 17:14Norah Jones?

  Okay, I love that music.

• 17:15Speaker 06

  And so I wrote this, never, you know, my whole voice changes. Throughout the whole record, it's like I, it's like all my split person, because I think I do have a lot of different characters going on in here. And it's like they all came out. It's like Sybil, you know, it's like, all these characters showed up. And I'm like, who is that? You know, and there's, anyway, so, so this bossa nova showed up. And then right, and it's basically me saying, okay, I hope you can go live this lavish lifestyle that you've always wanted. You can drink the champagne, the caviar, and your private jet, you know, whatever. I hope you find freedom here.

• 17:58Speaker 06

  I hope you can be peace, you know, and rest. And then there was something missing because I immediately jumped to this song, Suitcase. And, and so I felt there was something missing, but I didn't know what it was. And then someone suggested me, the team, you know, they were like, you know, have you thought about doing a cover of Beautiful? And then we could release that first, you know, as an introduction that you're going to come out with an album. People know that song. Because, you know, people don't know me as an artist. They know me as a producer and a songwriter. And, and so I was like, okay, I can do that. So I actually reached out to Sean Marshall, you know, Cat Power, to do it.

• 18:41Speaker 06

  I said, hey, would you be interested in producing? I gotta do a cover of Beautiful. I think you would do an amazing job. She's like, oh, yes.

• 18:49Norah Jones?

  Wow.

• 18:49Speaker 06

  But our schedules didn't align up, and I had to get it done. And she's like, I'm sorry, dude. I'm like, totally fine. And so I was just in the studio, going to record something else. So the drummer showed up early. I'm like, hey, I laid down the piano. And I'm like, hey, do you think you can play, you know, drums on Beautiful really quick? He's like, yeah. And I kept the same tempo, same arrangement, same key, because I loved that version. So, so he plays drums on it. And then I lay down bass, I put guitar. Then my other guitar player comes in to record something on something else. I'm like, hey, do you mind if, you know, you put some guitar on this? And he lays down guitar. We go on to work on the other thing. I put Mellotron, some Moog on it, same instruments.

• 19:32Speaker 06

  I thought that was intentional. I wanted to do everything exactly the same, except for strings.

• 19:38Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 06

  And, and then I just laid my vocal down. And I was like going, oh, this is actually that version, but a better sounding one, because I know more about production.

• 19:49Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 19:49Speaker 06

  I'm a better producer, engineer. I'm a better engineer. And so I turned it in, and everybody was like, holy shit, you know. And then I put it into the album in that space. And then it all made sense. It was like, oh, my mom brought me down.

• 20:04Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 20:05Speaker 06

  So the song took on a different perspective. So once I put it in there, it's like, oh, she was bringing me down. She made me feel non, you know, beautiful and all this stuff. And I, you know, and I remember always telling her, mom, I'm awesome. I'm great, you know, at what I do, blah, blah, blah. But always, there's always that, that down, like, no, you're not. No, you're not, you know? Even though she would say, I was, she would say, I wasn't. So anyways, so once I put it in there, it made all the sense. But we were like, we still need to lead with this because it makes total sense.

• 20:36Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 20:37Speaker 06

  So, yes, in the, sorry, the long story. But I did a version of it. I think it sounds really great. I'm proud of it. Then my ex, Sarah Gilbert, I called her up. I'm like, hey, I gotta make a video for Beautiful, and I think you should direct it. And she's like, and Sarah's an actress. And, and she was like, why? Are you sure? And I'm like, I think you'll do an amazing job. And she's like, well, I go, have you directed a video before? She was like, never. And I'm like, it doesn't matter. And, you know, and.

• 21:09Norah Jones?

  I like your confidence in yourself, in the best possible way, and in other people.

• 21:16Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 21:16Norah Jones?

  That's a real gift.

• 21:18Speaker 06

  You know what's weird? I'm so insecure. So I, I'm a walking contradiction. I have so much confidence.

• 21:25Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 21:25Speaker 06

  But I'm really insecure, too. So it's like, there is this battle inside me constantly. And I think that's weirdly my balance. I think that's what makes me humble.

• 21:35Norah Jones?

  Maybe it keeps you, it keeps you.

• 21:36Speaker 06

  Keeps me balanced.

• 21:37Norah Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:38Speaker 06

  Because I'm not, I'm confident, but I'm not.

• 21:41Norah Jones?

  I know what you mean.

• 21:42Speaker 06

  But, but I do try to believe in people, you know. And, and so she like called back in four minutes and was like, I'll do it. I have an idea. She's like, but I want Rhodes in it. I'm like, whatever you want to do, you know. And so we put our child in it, and it's a great video.

• 21:58Norah Jones?

  Awesome. I watched it. It's beautiful.

• 22:00Speaker 06

  Her first video, and it got accepted to Tribeca, you know, for short story. It's a really beautiful video, you know. So anyways, but yeah, so I think it all. It all works out as long as I listen. As long as I'm listening to what's going on inside. I think at the end of the day, it all just works out. Even if I feel like it's not a good thing, I'll still do it because for some reason I'm supposed to do it. You know, so it's like, it's all, this, my life has been like, a really big journey. And I feel like I'm doing this like kind of full weird full circle.

• 22:42Speaker 06

  And I'm so nervous, I'm so scared.

• 22:46Norah Jones?

  You're doing great. You really are. Honestly.

• 22:52Speaker 06

  I really am scared.

• 22:53Norah Jones?

  I know, you're human.

• 22:55Speaker 06

  But I'm gonna do my best and I'm going to just be as authentic and as honest as I can. Sometimes that honesty is what gets me. You know, because that makes you an open target, but I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that. I'd rather be honest and an open target than to be quiet and still and guarded. Because that's no way for me to live. You know, I could never be that person and it would probably take me down. Like I'd probably not be here if I, if I lived like that, so.

• 23:28Norah Jones?

  I think your honesty is why people love you and it's why I love you.

• 23:31Speaker 06

  Thank you. But it hurts sometimes, you know, it hurts. So that's why, that's, this is the sensitive part. I'm not crying because I'm sad, I'm crying because I'm scared and I'm happy. There's an anxiety and a nervousness, anxiety and excitement running through my system right now. I'm excited, but I'm also really anxious. And, and, um, so, you know, as long as I follow the signs and follow my gut, I'm okay. I'm okay, that's all I can say. It's that I'm okay if I do that. I'm not if I don't.

• 24:07Norah Jones?

  I think that's a good way to live.

• 24:08Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 24:10Norah Jones?

  You're beautiful. You're beautiful. No, I love it. I want to hug you, but I, I'm like, there's so much gear between us.

• 24:21Speaker 06

  I'm getting so much energy hugs from you. Thank you, I appreciate that. I do, I feel genuinely.

• 24:26Norah Jones?

  I hope you feel hugged.

• 24:27Speaker 06

  Heard and hugged and I feel it.

• 24:30Norah Jones?

  Can we please do one of your new songs?

• 24:32Speaker 06

  Yes, yes.

• 24:33Norah Jones?

  It's so pretty.

• 24:34Speaker 06

  So this song's called Feathers in a Storm. How like for so many years I was looking at my mom to change and constantly I'd have these long conversations like, Mom, you know, don't you just want to change a little bit, man?

• 24:48Norah Jones?

  Did you want to try something else?

• 24:49Speaker 06

  Do you ever want to try not being the villain or the victim? Or manipulating like, you know, because I, I got in major fights with my mom. And, and while the other siblings would stay away from it, I, I confronted her. So for years, I was just like, aren't you done? Like, are you happy? Like, if you just change a little bit, just some accountability. Just take some fucking accountability. And then it hit me like, she's never going to change. She will never change. It's me. I need to change the way I approach her. The way I have a relationship with her. If I want to have her find some kind of, you know,

• 25:34Speaker 06

  kindness and warmth in her heart, I have to stop thinking that and just realize when I walk into the room, she's going to be dark and, you know, mean. So I need to change my approach the way I walk in. You know, I can't walk in with a shield because that's what I was doing. Like, everything was always like, you know, dodging things with her. And so I, I started changing that. And then by the time, you know, she was sick and, you know, here's my bed, my mom was right here. I just put her right next to me so I could hold her hand, do everything and I found all this closure. But anyways, Feathers in a Storm is about all the people that are constantly wanting changes, but nothing changes. And, you know, we're just feathers in a storm trying to find a way out. You know, so that's what the song is about.

• 26:19Speaker 06

  But I feel like it translates in a lot of different things. But when I wrote it, it was key about just changing and getting out of this storm. But, you know, at some point, we will and fly away, you know? And I made a really cool video that's about nothing and it's really awesome.

• 26:37Norah Jones?

  That's awesome.

• 30:12Norah Jones?

  That's fun.

• 30:13Speaker 06

  That's good.

• 30:14Norah Jones?

  That was a fun one.

• 30:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, super fun. I like, I like that song because that's where some of my influences show. But, you know, I have like Stevie Nicks showed up in there somewhere. I have this song called, um, Sunday Best and I wrote it. I recorded it and it wasn't until he sent it back to me mixed that I was like going, when did fucking Neil Diamond show up here? And it's like, I sound like I'm like Neil Diamond showed up. And I just kept going with it. You know, I think that's the freedom of, of expression and in writing. It's like I didn't put any rules on me, you know, and, and this song. I heard the Stevie in there, but I was like, you know what? I'm influenced by her. I'm gonna keep it, you know?

• 30:54Norah Jones?

  You have to keep it going until you finish it and then it sounds like your own. You make it your own anyway.

• 30:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, but we, don't we start? I, I, I have to tell myself and I, and I tell the kids this. Do not edit. When you're in writing process, do not edit.

• 31:08Norah Jones?

  Yes.

• 31:09Speaker 06

  At all.

• 31:09Norah Jones?

  I agree.

• 31:10Speaker 06

  Just write the song, figure it out later, but do not edit in the middle of it because you're gonna lose something really special if you do that.

• 31:17Norah Jones?

  You lose the song.

• 31:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, so I did that with this song. When I, when I heard Stevie show up, I was like, you know, and I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna keep going with it. It's a cool song, I'm gonna dig it, I'm gonna like it.

• 31:27Norah Jones?

  I have one question because I just love your voice so much. Did you always have it? Was it just always there?

• 31:34Speaker 06

  Oh, my voice.

• 31:35Norah Jones?

  Your voice, your singing.

• 31:36Speaker 06

  Well, when I first started, interesting enough, when I was like, probably like 12 or 13.

• 31:47Speaker 06

  I really wanted a guitar and we didn't have a lot of money. And my father, you know, didn't wanna, you know, he'd rather give the money to alcohol and his friends, you know, in a bar. My dad really wanted to be Frank Sinatra. He wanted to be part of the Rat Pack. And he was actually a great musician, played jazz. And he never did it in front of us, though.

• 32:13Norah Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 32:14Speaker 06

  I'd only heard it when we would go to stores and there would be a demo piano, because a long time ago, there would be demo pianos at Sears. And my dad would sit down and he would just start playing like this. And I'd be like, where the fuck did that come from? And he's like, well, man, in that, give him his bragging rights, you know? Well, I used to be in a, you know, he was in a country samba band and he was in a jazz band. And he's like, you know, I met Frank Sinatra and those guys a long time, because he was in the army and he met those guys somewhere in some club or something. And, you know, and I could tell he always wanted to be Frank Sinatra. And, but he was very passive aggressive. He was an alcoholic. And he was a pussy, you know?

• 32:58Speaker 06

  He didn't ever want to risk anything. So he let this talent of his go, you know, just escape him because there was no, there was no guarantee, you know? Music didn't guarantee anything. And he wanted...

• 33:15Norah Jones?

  Out of fear of failing.

• 33:16Speaker 06

  Yes, fear of failing, fear of not having money, scrapping along. And he didn't have any money, you know? So I don't even understand that part. But, um, so, you know, I knew nothing about it. I just kind of understood a little bit. But I, Karen Carpenter, why even pick the superstar for us to, you know, try out? But when I heard her voice, it's like all of a sudden I had a tone to that, that felt like, that sounded like what I felt like inside. It was dark. It was rich.

• 33:55Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 33:56Speaker 06

  You know? And she really influenced me to like, because then I saw her on drums.

• 34:02Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 34:03Speaker 06

  And I was like, holy shit, a girl on drums.

• 34:06Norah Jones?

  She's so good.

• 34:06Speaker 06

  I'm like, amazing.

• 34:08Norah Jones?

  She's so good.

• 34:09Speaker 06

  Amazing. So I'm thinking, I think I'm five, five years old, six years old. And, you know, I used to go listen to the Carpenters, you know, in this little cubby hole with my record. And I would just listen, I'd cry because it felt like, I'm like, I wasn't even paying attention to the words.

• 34:23Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 34:24Speaker 06

  Because once I started paying attention to the words, I started realizing how cheesy they were. But I'm like going, that doesn't fit the character, right? So anyway, so she influenced me a lot. Then I asked my dad, can I get a guitar? No, no, no. And then finally, when I was around seven or eight, my mom went to Tijuana, got me this like nylon broken guitar and gave it to me. And I just started going, you know, like that, you know, like whatever. And then a voice started showing up like around 12, 13 years old. But it was like, very like,

• 35:01Norah Jones?

  Mellow and jazzy, yeah.

• 35:02Speaker 06

  I was into that.

• 35:03Norah Jones?

  Well, that's kind of Karen.

• 35:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 35:05Norah Jones?

  A little bit.

• 35:05Speaker 06

  But I was in this, this like weird little thing, you know? And so, but it felt like, you know, it was very dreamy. And then I remember in, like, that was the eighties, there was this band called Everything But The Girl.

• 35:20Norah Jones?

  Oh, I love them.

• 35:21Speaker 06

  Tracy Thorne. And when I heard her voice, I was like, okay. And so I started getting into that kind of vibe. And then I was really into, you know, I don't know, I don't know all the music, but it was, I don't know, I call it French Noir, sixties pop, you know? You know, the, you know, like all that.

• 35:44Norah Jones?

  Yeah, I know what you mean.

• 35:45Speaker 06

  You know, Girl from Ipanema, you know, Gilberto, is it Gilberto?

• 35:49Norah Jones?

  Gilberto, yeah.

• 35:50Speaker 06

  Loved it, because my mom loved that style of music. And so that, I was starting to get into that, because I remember she liked it. But then, so it was pretty. I had a pretty mellow, I was, felt like I was always, you know, doing that. And then I moved to San Francisco and I was sitting, you know, in my room and all of a sudden, I wrote this song. Oh, one little story. I tried to get in bands when I was 15, 16 and they needed singers and they, I would be in it for a week and then they kicked me out because they said I couldn't sing. And I'm like, okay, well, maybe, that happened two times. I'm like, okay, well, maybe I'm not going to be a singer, you know? And I joined this girl band and they needed a singer.

• 36:35Speaker 06

  And they were like, well, we don't, we don't think you can sing properly. And it's like stuff like, you know, those girl, girl days, you know, Lulu? And the girl goes, let's love. And so I was good at it, but they said no. And then their bass player quit. And I'm like, can I be your bass player? Like, do you know how to play bass? I'm like, no, but I can learn. And so I learned how to play all the songs on bass. And then they kicked me out because I was too young, you know? And I think I, now that I look at it, I think they were jealous of me. Because they were 18, 19 and I was 15 or 16 or something like that. It kind of now makes sense because I was, I was great playing bass. I learned all the songs in like a day, you know? Anyway, so I didn't think I was going to be a singer.

• 37:19Speaker 06

  So wasn't until I moved to San Francisco and then all of a sudden, I wrote this song called Down On Your Face. And it, this huge voice showed up and I was like going, what the? It was like all my pent up, keeping all those emotions were down here, just exploded.

• 37:40Norah Jones?

  Because you were away from home, you think?

• 37:42Speaker 06

  No, I think I was, I don't know, good, I don't know. I didn't even think about that. It's very possible. I think I was angry. I think I was getting angrier, to be honest. My mom was really pissing me off because there were so many things that, you know, would happen to me and my mom would just ignore it. You know, like I tried to kill myself when I was young and my mom acted like I, you know, when the doctor's saying, your daughter, there's kids that come in here that, you know, is a cry for help. And then there's kids that actually try to kill themselves. Your daughter actually tried to kill herself.

• 38:24Norah Jones?

  Wow.

• 38:25Speaker 06

  That's a problem. You need, here's some numbers, you need to take her to go see some people. My mom's story was I took some baby aspirin. It hurt my stomach and she had to take me to the doctors.

• 38:38Norah Jones?

  She didn't take it seriously.

• 38:39Speaker 06

  Yeah. So it's stuff like that. So I was getting a lot of stuff as the years went by. I was getting angrier and angrier, you know? And I think by that time, when I moved to San Francisco, maybe being away from everybody, it just blew up. And so this huge voice showed up. And then, I didn't know if it was good, I just knew it was emotional.

• 39:00Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 39:00Speaker 06

  And that's what I went on, is in the motion. I didn't care if I had a good voice. I was just like going on emotion.

• 39:06Norah Jones?

  But that's the best voice.

• 39:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 39:07Norah Jones?

  But you actually do have an incredible instrument.

• 39:10Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 39:10Norah Jones?

  On top of it.

• 39:11Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 39:11Norah Jones?

  But the fact that you sing with all the emotion is, I think, why it's also extra.

• 39:17Speaker 06

  I appreciate that.

• 39:18Norah Jones?

  Extra, extra amazing. Will you sing this Karen Carpenter song for me? Please?

• 39:25Speaker 06

  Are you gonna play it too?

• 39:25Norah Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna play it.

• 39:26Speaker 06

  It'll be pretty.

• 39:27Norah Jones?

  Okay.

• 39:29Speaker 06

  And darker.

• 39:31Norah Jones?

  Produce me.

• 39:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, just keep it dark like that.

• 40:00Speaker 06

  I fell in love with you.

• 40:08Speaker 06

  Before the second show.

• 40:14Speaker 06

  Your guitar. Sounds so sweet and clear.

• 40:26Speaker 06

  But you're not really here. It's just the radio.

• 40:40Speaker 06

  Don't you remember you told me you loved me, baby?

• 40:48Speaker 06

  You said you'd be coming back this way again, baby.

• 40:57Speaker 06

  Baby, baby, baby, baby, oh, baby. I love you. I really do. What to say?

• 41:22Speaker 06

  To make you come again?

• 41:31Speaker 06

  Come back to me again?

• 41:39Speaker 06

  And play your second guitar? Oh, shit.

• 41:46Norah Jones?

  You'll go for your verse?

• 41:47Speaker 06

  No. And loneliness.

• 41:56Speaker 06

  It's such a sad affair.

• 42:05Speaker 06

  And I can't hardly wait.

• 42:13Speaker 06

  To be with you again.

• 42:23Speaker 06

  Don't you remember you told me you loved me, baby?

• 42:31Speaker 06

  You said you'd be coming back this way again, baby?

• 42:39Speaker 06

  Baby, baby, baby, baby, oh, baby. I love you.

• 42:52Speaker 06

  I really do.

• 43:30Norah Jones?

  Don't you remember you told me you love me, baby?

• 43:38Norah Jones?

  You said you'd be coming back this way again, baby.

• 43:47Norah Jones?

  Baby, baby, baby, baby, oh, baby.

• 43:55Norah Jones?

  I love you. I really do.

• 44:08Speaker 06

  I think you should cover the song. Your voice is so great. It's so beautiful. I think you should do a cover of it.

• 44:17Norah Jones?

  Thanks.

• 44:17Speaker 06

  That's my opinion.

• 44:18Norah Jones?

  Okay, done.

• 44:19Speaker 06

  But it's really pretty and just it's dark and it's like...

• 44:23Norah Jones?

  It's so good.

• 44:24Speaker 06

  But your voice, it has that grit and you know, you have such a... Your voice is so interesting to me because a lot of people don't have that grit. And when they do have it, it's in a louder voice. But you carry this grit in a softer space.

• 44:41Norah Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 44:42Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 44:42Norah Jones?

  That's funny. I never would have thought that.

• 44:43Speaker 06

  It's really cool. You have a resin. It's like a cello.

• 44:47Norah Jones?

  I think it's my deviated septum.

• 44:50Speaker 06

  Whatever it is, but you know that sound of the cello?

• 44:53Norah Jones?

  It's airy.

• 44:54Speaker 06

  But it's got resin around it.

• 44:57Norah Jones?

  It's gucky.

• 44:58Speaker 06

  Yeah. Not gucky, but you know what I'm saying? It's really awesome because it's hard to get girls to have that.

• 45:06Norah Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:07Speaker 06

  It's really, really hard and they don't want to go there. They don't want to take a chance on it. And it's in your speaking voice, you know?

• 45:16Norah Jones?

  Yeah, I think some of it is just how it is, how the air comes out, you know?

• 45:20Speaker 06

  But I would, for fun, since you're in the studio, I would do a cover of that. I mean, it sounds really, really cool coming from you.

• 45:30Norah Jones?

  Maybe I'll do it next week. I got some shows out west.

• 45:33Speaker 06

  It's such a beautiful song, especially like that. Like you just transformed it. The only person I know that did a cover of it was Sonic Youth.

• 45:42Norah Jones?

  Oh, well, that must have been totally different.

• 45:44Speaker 06

  That was, yeah, they did a very like, it was like, you know, Thurston Moore sang it. And it was very like, it was on this Carpenter compilation. Or it was like, you know, we got the, 4 Non Blondes did it. And we got the, you know, not that it was a bad song, but no other song was left except for Bless the Beast and the Children. And so I was like, well, this is, what do I do with this? You know, so we just did a punk rock version. Bless the Beast and the Children.

• 46:13Norah Jones?

  So funny.

• 46:14Speaker 06

  It was so terrible, but they, Sonic Youth did the best version. But it was very dark and brooding, you know?

• 46:22Norah Jones?

  I like that, though.

• 46:23Speaker 06

  You know, yeah, you should check it out. But that's the only time I've ever heard anybody do it.

• 46:27Norah Jones?

  It's funny, usually when I choose cover songs, I feel like I'm trying to be opposite of who I am. And I think I've run away for, I think I was always so smooth. I just came out this way, you know? I sing kind of smooth and I like stuff to be a little gritty around me so that I don't get too, you know, smooth. Like, smooth jazz is a dirty word to me. But it shouldn't be because it's who I am. And I think it's what people liked about my first record, which is what they, you know, they know me from mostly.

• 46:56Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 46:57Norah Jones?

  And so I think the thought of doing a Carpenter song goes against my past, like, whatever psychology, whatever I have going on. But I think you're right. I would love to do it.

• 47:09Speaker 06

  I think...

• 47:10Norah Jones?

  It's a good idea.

• 47:11Speaker 06

  I understand what you're saying. But I think that's the case of what happens to us. Where you go, like, when I was in 4 Non Blondes, I wanted everything to be loud and fast because, you know, that's because what I do like is everything but the girl and Sade and stuff like that. And so I was going against that myself. And it made me unhappy because I was always on 11.

• 47:38Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 47:39Speaker 06

  I was always on, now that I presented this big voice, I never was able to bring it back down until I left the band. And then I sat on, when I did my in-flight record, I had a bottle of wine, cigarettes, ashtray, sat on a chair like this and just ad-libbed most of the lyrics on that album and just had so much fun because I just sat there and I was just like, you know, I was low, I was high, I was up there, I had balance, you know? So to hear you say that, I would, my producer in me would say, "You are crazy. Don't..." Because that, it's not the songs.

• 48:17Norah Jones?

  Yeah. No, I know.

• 48:18Speaker 06

  It was you. You, you know? It wasn't the songs. There's something, you have that thing. You're a star. You had something very unique at a time when girls weren't being that, you know? Seeing, you know, and the softness really wasn't the case. It was just your tone and your presence. You had such a, you know, you do, and it's not even had. You have such a great, like, chill. Like, you know, everybody's always having, jumping around. And it's just like, you're just chill and you're just singing and you're playing and you're a musician and you can do all this stuff.

• 49:00Speaker 06

  And then on top of it, you have this really cool, low, gritty kind of soft voice, which was very interesting, you know, because it's like... So I wouldn't even put it towards, yes, those are great songs, but I don't think the songs is why people related to you. It was your voice.

• 49:17Norah Jones?

  I think it's also like, it's just so ingrained. If something, if somebody says, "Oh, yeah, that's amazing. Do more of that." You just want to do the opposite, right? Like, why do we do that as humans?

• 49:29Speaker 06

  Well, because we think, because it's something that you told yourself. Maybe there was an insecurity. Maybe you wanted to rock more.

• 49:36Norah Jones?

  For sure, for sure.

• 49:37Speaker 06

  Maybe you just didn't want to be seen as this soft-spoken singer and like, "I don't want to be the jazz girl. Everybody focuses on me in jazz." But that's what makes you unique and awesome.

• 49:46Norah Jones?

  I know, but isn't it funny? You start running from what made you unique in the first place.

• 49:51Speaker 06

  Definitely. But I understand it.

• 49:53Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 49:54Speaker 06

  But I would definitely be slapping on my producer hat and slappy around the studio and say, "Don't do that." You know, "No, no, no." In fact, run towards it. If anything, you got to run towards it now because you've had plenty of time to run away.

• 50:08Norah Jones?

  At this point, I'm not running anymore.

• 50:10Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 50:10Norah Jones?

  I'm excited to just do whatever feels right, you know? And so... If you're a music fan, I've got a new podcast you have to check out. It's called Before the Moment, a new series hosted by the legendary Nile Rodgers. You know him as the producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of Chic. But in this series, he's hitting the road to sit down with some of today's most fascinating artists. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Nile explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every artist can point to that turning point, the moment before the breakthrough, before the success, before everything changed.

• 50:54Norah Jones?

  Through candid conversations and personal stories, you'll hear what happened before the moment that made them who they are today. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series, on the iHeartRadio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 51:10Speaker 06

  This is Shirley Strawberry from the Steve Harvey Morning Show. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla sedan with the latest features and tech. Or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you could get more at trade-in, get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes...

• 52:13Speaker 04

  Your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. Running a business means keeping pace with the latest tech. You put a lot into building your enterprise software stack, and scrapping it to integrate AI is out of the question. That's why IBM Technology works with all the apps, data, and models you need. It's another way IBM helps you build on the technology you rely on. Let's create smarter business. IBM. Visit ibm.com to learn more.

• 52:50Speaker 06

  But also that level of success, too. You know, I get that.

• 52:54Norah Jones?

  That'll make you run in a different direction. I don't know why it does that, but it does.

• 52:58Speaker 06

  It does, because it's that part of us that is looking for failure. And how am I going to beat that? And how, you know, it's like, I'm not just that. I'm not, I'm more than that. And it becomes, it's more rebellious. It's like, I'm more than that. I'm more than just, you know, this.

• 53:14Norah Jones?

  You think that everybody thinks you're one thing.

• 53:16Speaker 06

  And they don't.

• 53:17Norah Jones?

  And we're all so multifaceted.

• 53:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, but they don't. You got to remember, and I mean this in the nicest, kindest way I can say it, but people aren't that deep.

• 53:26Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 53:27Speaker 06

  You know, they don't know how to think that deep about like, oh, she, you know, they're just saying what they know.

• 53:33Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 53:33Speaker 06

  We love you. We know you from that.

• 53:36Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 53:36Speaker 06

  And we love that.

• 53:37Norah Jones?

  Yeah, it's a good way to remember.

• 53:38Speaker 06

  That's it.

• 53:39Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 53:39Speaker 06

  They're not thinking that deep. They're just going, yes.

• 53:43Norah Jones?

  Yes.

• 53:44Speaker 06

  Love that. That thing that you do.

• 53:46Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 53:46Speaker 06

  They don't know how to give it a name. They're just saying, you know how you did on that record? Like, I love that.

• 53:52Norah Jones?

  Do that.

• 53:53Speaker 06

  You know, do that. You know, whatever. But, you know, but as an artist, you have to explore. You know, we have to explore all the possibilities, don't we? Until we land back where we are best.

• 54:04Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 54:05Speaker 06

  You know, so I am happy to hear that.

• 54:08Norah Jones?

  Words of wisdom.

• 54:09Speaker 06

  You sound amazing on that song.

• 54:11Norah Jones?

  Oh, thanks.

• 54:11Speaker 06

  I would definitely.

• 54:12Norah Jones?

  I'm so glad you suggested it.

• 54:14Speaker 06

  Well, even if you just record it for yourself, I would do it, even if it's anything, I would just do it because I was like, I didn't even want to jump in. I was like going to stay here.

• 54:23Norah Jones?

  But I wanted to hear you sing.

• 54:25Speaker 06

  I know, but I was just like so taken by your version. I just, I felt like, like, you know, the pump organ not wanting to come in.

• 54:33Norah Jones?

  Yeah.

• 54:33Speaker 06

  And it's like, it's like delicate, just like this is a moment right now. I'm just going to let her carry it. But I knew you would look at me and like, oh, weren't you in?

• 54:41Norah Jones?

  But. Where are you? Well, I'll always have my voice memos. I'm saving those forever. And I'm going to listen to them when I miss you. So thank you so much for being here.

• 54:50Speaker 06

  Yeah, thank you.

• 54:50Norah Jones?

  You were the best guest.

• 54:52Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 54:53Norah Jones?

  Awesome.

• 54:53Speaker 06

  Thank you. I appreciate that.

• 54:54Norah Jones?

  Yes. Thank you for doing it.

• 54:57Speaker 06

  Yay us.

• 54:57Norah Jones?

  Yay.

• 55:00Norah Jones?

  Aw, thanks so much. That was so lovely. I love her so much, so very much. If you want to know what songs we played in this episode, the first one was from her newest album called Let It Die Here, which was just released in 2026. And it was called Feathers in a Storm. The second song we did was the classic Carpenter song, Superstar, from their album Carpenters, released in 1971. Special thanks to Linda Perry for joining us today. And we'll be back next week with Angelique Kejo. Norah Jones is playing along as a production of iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, Norah Jones. This episode was recorded by Matt Marinelli. Mix and additional recording by Jamie Landry. Audio post-production and mastering by Jamie Landry. Artwork by Eliza Fry.

• 55:45Norah Jones?

  Photography by Shirvin Lenez. Produced by Norah Jones and Sarah Oda. Executive producers Erin Wong Kaufman and Jordan Runtong. Marketing lead, Alison Cantor-Graeber.

• 56:03Speaker 07

  This is Stugatz from Stugatz and Company Live. Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or a Corolla sedan. With the latest features N-Tech or test drive a spacious Grand Highlander or adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid models available, you can enjoy longer trips without all the stops. While Toyota's legendary resale value means you can get more at trade-in. Get a great deal today and a great value tomorrow. Shop toyota.com for deals and details. Toyota, let's go places.

• 56:41Norah Jones?

  If you love music and great artists' interviews, check out Before the Moment, hosted by Niall Rogers. This new series follows Niall as he travels across the country talking with some of today's most fascinating artists about the moments that shaped their lives and careers. From hitmakers like Miguel to rising stars like Alex Warren, Niall explores the stories behind the careers, the songs, and the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the point where everything changed. And this podcast tells the stories that came before it. Listen to Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 57:15Speaker 05

  Small businesses are the pulse of every community. They bring people together, create opportunities, and drive growth. That's why Chase for Business helps small business owners like you by offering personalized guidance and digital tools that can help your business grow. With our guidance and your determination, you can take your business farther and help build a brighter future for your community. Learn more at chase.com/business. Chase for Business, make more of what's yours. The Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. JPMorgan Chase Bank, N.A., member FDIC. Copyright 2026 JPMorgan Chase and Company.

• 57:51Norah Jones?

  Hello?

• 57:52Speaker 01

  Hey, it's me, your wallet.

• 57:54Norah Jones?

  Oh, hey.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  I was just wondering if we could maybe take it easy this week?

• 57:58Norah Jones?

  Absolutely.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  Really?

• 57:59Norah Jones?

  Yep, I'm shopping at Food Lion.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Wait, you mean low prices?

• 58:03Norah Jones?

  And MVP savings.

• 58:05Speaker 01

  Oh, you do care.

• 58:07Norah Jones?

  Obviously.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  Okay, I feel better.

• 58:09Norah Jones?

  Good. Now, let's go get some snacks. At Food Lion, low prices and MVP savings make it easier to shop for what you need without spending more than you have to. When your wallet needs a little TLC, head to your local Food Lion or shop at foodlion.com. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.